Having now got through about half of Nadine Dorries 'The Plot'. It is quite an extraordinary story. She has invented her own 'Deep Throat' and her conspiracy theories would leave Leon green with envy.
What's puzzling is why no one is suing. Surely Michael Gove wouldn't leave this stuff hanging? And he's just the tip of the iceberg. What Dominic Cummings is being accused of could affect his liberty. Though Nads obviously thinks this is just a money making novel I'm surprised her publisher don't take a more cautious view
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
You might be better using 'Jewish' than 'Jew'. It's less pejorative. Imagine you are talking about a doctor or a banker and then put your 'Jew' in front of it and you might get an idea of how unpleasant it sounds.
The word "Jew" really isn't pejorative.
It can be when used like that. On a related note, I'm half-convinced the term "jew hate" has only been used since I wondered on pb if the public understood the word antisemitism. No doubt mere coincidence but certainly it is not old enough to vote.
Of course it can be used pejoratively. So can any number of other words - black, gay, Irish, man, woman, Tory, Socialist.
But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies.
In a phrase like "jew doctor", it is.
I think my WhatsApp predictive text has some dodgy beliefs. Every time I am writing a work message which involves the words “new bank” or “new banker” it changes the “new” to “Jew” which, luckily I’ve managed to catch before sending all times but once which was embarrassing. I can’t understand why it changes it but having done a WhatsApp text I had never written the word “Jew “ or any variant before.
Reminds of the (possibly apocryphal) tale of google search trying to correct someone searching about a white man stealing a car by asking if they meant a black man.
An ad on the radio just now got me thinking about American cultural imports in the last decade. There have been many: the rate has definitely accelerated. To name just a few:
- Black Friday (that’s what triggered the thought) - “Season” rather than series - the final, grinding Bakhmut-style victory of “ATM” - “Woke” - “Culture war” - “Incel” - “Passed” instead of died (or even passed away) - “STEM” - A whole plethora of baseball expressions, like “circle back”
I could go on. During that time all we’ve managed in return is to give them “close of play”
Nonsense. We’ve also given them dozens of football expressions, for starters
Also “brilliant”, “wanker”, “posh” and multiple others. All making inroads
We don’t notice because we’re not American and don’t realise they don’t have these expressions, and when you encounter them in the States you don’t realise they are imports
That said, I do detest “Black Friday”, which is absolutely meaningless out of its Thanksgiving context, unlike, say, Halloween which is an original British export reimported, the same way we imported the Blues and gave it back to them in the 1960s
I also get the impression that Americans are starting say 'film' more when they once would only have said 'movie'.
Yep, the perceived poshness of British English means they import loads of words, as I say we just don’t notice
It has the prestige of, say, French in British English in the 19th century, when the socially ambitious would litter their prose with French phrases
I also I like to listen to foreigners talking their weird foreign languages, to catch the English imports. You can be listening to two people speaking Polish and they will suddenly say “oh my God” or “fucking hell” - then they go back to Polish or Punjabi or whatever
I saw some small children playing football in Corfu once. Suddenly one of them yelled out 'Missed by a mile!' before reverting back to Greek.
I remember watching Borgen over 10 years ago, where apparently there was no danish equivalent for '15 minutes of fame'.
Nordic languages are so overloaded with Anglicisms they might as well speak English. Indeed there must be a decent chance they will, in two or three generations
Relatedly, when I was kayaking this morning, I did it with a Khmer guide, and a nice young French couple. The Khmer guy obviously spoke English, albeit haltingly, the French guy had some as well - but, unusually, the French woman seemed to have no English at all. So he translated everything for her
She looked embarrassed by her lack of English, she blushed a couple of times. It reminded me of how absurdly lucky we are to have the English language as the global language. It means we don’t have to worry about anything to do with language, it will all be in our language, it is probably bad for us and makes us lazy, nonetheless when people bang on about the evil of the British Empire, you should also say a quiet prayer of thanks that our belligerent ancestors made sure everyone speaks our tongue
Luck has little to do with it. We worked bloody hard at taking over most of the world and making Johnny Foreigner speak the Queen's English through much of the nineteenth century.
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
You might be better using 'Jewish' than 'Jew'. It's less pejorative. Imagine you are talking about a doctor or a banker and then put your 'Jew' in front of it and you might get an idea of how unpleasant it sounds.
The word "Jew" really isn't pejorative.
It can be when used like that. On a related note, I'm half-convinced the term "jew hate" has only been used since I wondered on pb if the public understood the word antisemitism. No doubt mere coincidence but certainly it is not old enough to vote.
Of course it can be used pejoratively. So can any number of other words - black, gay, Irish, man, woman, Tory, Socialist.
But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies.
But I’ve got good Jewish friends who object to it.
What if their noun of choice, if they object to the usual one?
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
Updated for 17th November. Y-axis starts at zero:
Please add Sudanese, Yemeni, Syrian and Uigher deaths.
Be my guest if you feel so strongly.
I don't.
Its those who feel strongly enough to join a protest who should explain why the Palestinians are different to all those other groups for whom there are never protests.
There's a Uyghur protest today in London. Are you going?
While some of these have not been on the same scale as pro-Palestinian protests, I think you exaggerate for the sake of your argument. There may well be inconsistent concern expressed about different conflicts around the world, but that doesn't mean the only explanation for that is that the protests are 100% driven by antisemitism.
From your link:
Hundreds of people have marched to the Syrian Embassy in London to show solidarity with those suffering from President Bashar Assad's crackdown.
So why hundreds against Syria and hundreds of thousands against Israel ?
People being persecuted in MENA, or across the Islamic world more generally, has happened continuously for generations.
They are effectively the 'control test' on how people react. Or more likely don't react.
Israel is the catalyst. Add a catalyst and the reaction begins.
Did our PM offer the Syrian government 'unequivocal support'?
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
Updated for 17th November. Y-axis starts at zero:
Please add Sudanese, Yemeni, Syrian and Uigher deaths.
Be my guest if you feel so strongly.
I don't.
Its those who feel strongly enough to join a protest who should explain why the Palestinians are different to all those other groups for whom there are never protests.
There's a Uyghur protest today in London. Are you going?
While some of these have not been on the same scale as pro-Palestinian protests, I think you exaggerate for the sake of your argument. There may well be inconsistent concern expressed about different conflicts around the world, but that doesn't mean the only explanation for that is that the protests are 100% driven by antisemitism.
From your link:
Hundreds of people have marched to the Syrian Embassy in London to show solidarity with those suffering from President Bashar Assad's crackdown.
So why hundreds against Syria and hundreds of thousands against Israel ?
People being persecuted in MENA, or across the Islamic world more generally, has happened continuously for generations.
They are effectively the 'control test' on how people react. Or more likely don't react.
Israel is the catalyst. Add a catalyst and the reaction begins.
I only know one person personally who has been on a pro-Palestinian protest. Said person is an Israeli citizen (by virtue of Jewish heritage) and talks of witnessing the discrimination against Palestinians/Israeli Arabs in Israel. So, Israel was the catalyst for that person to attend. But that wasn't antisemitism.
People go on pro-Palestinian protests for many reasons. To insist there is a single cause, to treat everyone the same, is a mistake at best.
An ad on the radio just now got me thinking about American cultural imports in the last decade. There have been many: the rate has definitely accelerated. To name just a few:
- Black Friday (that’s what triggered the thought) - “Season” rather than series - the final, grinding Bakhmut-style victory of “ATM” - “Woke” - “Culture war” - “Incel” - “Passed” instead of died (or even passed away) - “STEM” - A whole plethora of baseball expressions, like “circle back”
I could go on. During that time all we’ve managed in return is to give them “close of play”
Nonsense. We’ve also given them dozens of football expressions, for starters
Also “brilliant”, “wanker”, “posh” and multiple others. All making inroads
We don’t notice because we’re not American and don’t realise they don’t have these expressions, and when you encounter them in the States you don’t realise they are imports
That said, I do detest “Black Friday”, which is absolutely meaningless out of its Thanksgiving context, unlike, say, Halloween which is an original British export reimported, the same way we imported the Blues and gave it back to them in the 1960s
I also get the impression that Americans are starting say 'film' more when they once would only have said 'movie'.
Yep, the perceived poshness of British English means they import loads of words, as I say we just don’t notice
It has the prestige of, say, French in British English in the 19th century, when the socially ambitious would litter their prose with French phrases
I also I like to listen to foreigners talking their weird foreign languages, to catch the English imports. You can be listening to two people speaking Polish and they will suddenly say “oh my God” or “fucking hell” - then they go back to Polish or Punjabi or whatever
I saw some small children playing football in Corfu once. Suddenly one of them yelled out 'Missed by a mile!' before reverting back to Greek.
I remember watching Borgen over 10 years ago, where apparently there was no danish equivalent for '15 minutes of fame'.
Nordic languages are so overloaded with Anglicisms they might as well speak English. Indeed there must be a decent chance they will, in two or three generations
Relatedly, when I was kayaking this morning, I did it with a Khmer guide, and a nice young French couple. The Khmer guy obviously spoke English, albeit haltingly, the French guy had some as well - but, unusually, the French woman seemed to have no English at all. So he translated everything for her
She looked embarrassed by her lack of English, she blushed a couple of times. It reminded me of how absurdly lucky we are to have the English language as the global language. It means we don’t have to worry about anything to do with language, it will all be in our language, it is probably bad for us and makes us lazy, nonetheless when people bang on about the evil of the British Empire, you should also say a quiet prayer of thanks that our belligerent ancestors made sure everyone speaks our tongue
Luck has little to do with it. We worked bloody hard at taking over most of the world and making Johnny Foreigner speak the Queen's English through much of the nineteenth century.
True. i was just trying to say it nicely
Returning to Americanisms, I’ve been using the word “gas” for “petrol” for years. It’s just easier. And sounds better and juicier
“Put some petrol in” sounds ridiculous to me, like you are seeking some obscure chemical for a complex mechanical issue
“Fill it with gas” is superior. As is “gas station”.
It’s the converse of “I am looking for an apartment”. “Flat” is way better
An ad on the radio just now got me thinking about American cultural imports in the last decade. There have been many: the rate has definitely accelerated. To name just a few:
- Black Friday (that’s what triggered the thought) - “Season” rather than series - the final, grinding Bakhmut-style victory of “ATM” - “Woke” - “Culture war” - “Incel” - “Passed” instead of died (or even passed away) - “STEM” - A whole plethora of baseball expressions, like “circle back”
I could go on. During that time all we’ve managed in return is to give them “close of play”
Nonsense. We’ve also given them dozens of football expressions, for starters
Also “brilliant”, “wanker”, “posh” and multiple others. All making inroads
We don’t notice because we’re not American and don’t realise they don’t have these expressions, and when you encounter them in the States you don’t realise they are imports
That said, I do detest “Black Friday”, which is absolutely meaningless out of its Thanksgiving context, unlike, say, Halloween which is an original British export reimported, the same way we imported the Blues and gave it back to them in the 1960s
I also get the impression that Americans are starting say 'film' more when they once would only have said 'movie'.
Yep, the perceived poshness of British English means they import loads of words, as I say we just don’t notice
It has the prestige of, say, French in British English in the 19th century, when the socially ambitious would litter their prose with French phrases
I also I like to listen to foreigners talking their weird foreign languages, to catch the English imports. You can be listening to two people speaking Polish and they will suddenly say “oh my God” or “fucking hell” - then they go back to Polish or Punjabi or whatever
I saw some small children playing football in Corfu once. Suddenly one of them yelled out 'Missed by a mile!' before reverting back to Greek.
I remember watching Borgen over 10 years ago, where apparently there was no danish equivalent for '15 minutes of fame'.
Nordic languages are so overloaded with Anglicisms they might as well speak English. Indeed there must be a decent chance they will, in two or three generations
Relatedly, when I was kayaking this morning, I did it with a Khmer guide, and a nice young French couple. The Khmer guy obviously spoke English, albeit haltingly, the French guy had some as well - but, unusually, the French woman seemed to have no English at all. So he translated everything for her
She looked embarrassed by her lack of English, she blushed a couple of times. It reminded me of how absurdly lucky we are to have the English language as the global language. It means we don’t have to worry about anything to do with language, it will all be in our language, it is probably bad for us and makes us lazy, nonetheless when people bang on about the evil of the British Empire, you should also say a quiet prayer of thanks that our belligerent ancestors made sure everyone speaks our tongue
Cambodia was part of the French Indochina, but hardly any French is spoken there now.
When I was in Vietnam 28 years ago, the elderly spoke French with the young speaking English. I would have thought that the French speakers have died off now.
In Cambodia the Khmer Rouge helped this process along.
I wonder if those who crowed over the absurd Colston verdict will be similarly impressed with the Jury's decision here. Extinction Rebellion activists not guilty of causing criminal damage although the evidence seems pretty overwhelming.
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
You might be better using 'Jewish' than 'Jew'. It's less pejorative. Imagine you are talking about a doctor or a banker and then put your 'Jew' in front of it and you might get an idea of how unpleasant it sounds.
The word "Jew" really isn't pejorative.
It can have about the same meaning as the rather abbreviated form of "Pakistani". Would you use that?
If you think the word "Jew" is pejorative per se, then you really need to think again.
People use it because it sounds ugly. It is most often used by Gentiles who are accusing opponents of being anti-semitic or as they would say Jew-haters. It is very deliberately done and it is very unattractive
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
You might be better using 'Jewish' than 'Jew'. It's less pejorative. Imagine you are talking about a doctor or a banker and then put your 'Jew' in front of it and you might get an idea of how unpleasant it sounds.
The word "Jew" really isn't pejorative.
It can be when used like that. On a related note, I'm half-convinced the term "jew hate" has only been used since I wondered on pb if the public understood the word antisemitism. No doubt mere coincidence but certainly it is not old enough to vote.
Of course it can be used pejoratively. So can any number of other words - black, gay, Irish, man, woman, Tory, Socialist.
But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies.
But I’ve got good Jewish friends who object to it.
What if their noun of choice, if they object to the usual one?
Jewish
Indeed you can see the difference in what I just said
I said
“I’ve got good Jewish friends who object to it”
Who on earth would say
“I’ve got good Jew friends who object to it”
You sound like Goebbels
I suppose you could use the convoluted
“I’ve got got good friends who are Jews who object to it” but that still sounds faintly creepy and, besides, takes an hour longer to say
Having now got through about half of Nadine Dorries 'The Plot'. It is quite an extraordinary story. She has invented her own 'Deep Throat' and her conspiracy theories would leave Leon green with envy.
What's puzzling is why no one is suing. Surely Michael Gove wouldn't leave this stuff hanging? And he's just the tip of the iceberg. What Dominic Cummings is being accused of could affect his liberty. Though Nads obviously thinks this is just a money making novel I'm surprised her publisher don't take a more cautious view
Is there a potential legal defence that no sane person would believe a word she says?
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
You might be better using 'Jewish' than 'Jew'. It's less pejorative. Imagine you are talking about a doctor or a banker and then put your 'Jew' in front of it and you might get an idea of how unpleasant it sounds.
The word "Jew" really isn't pejorative.
It can have about the same meaning as the rather abbreviated form of "Pakistani". Would you use that?
If you think the word "Jew" is pejorative per se, then you really need to think again.
People use it because it sounds ugly. It is most often used by Gentiles who are accusing opponents of being anti-semitic or as they would say Jew-haters. It is very deliberately done and it is very unattractive
The fact it is ugly explains why 'Jew haters' is a good way to describe so many of the most egregious protesters.
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
You might be better using 'Jewish' than 'Jew'. It's less pejorative. Imagine you are talking about a doctor or a banker and then put your 'Jew' in front of it and you might get an idea of how unpleasant it sounds.
The word "Jew" really isn't pejorative.
It can have about the same meaning as the rather abbreviated form of "Pakistani". Would you use that?
If you think the word "Jew" is pejorative per se, then you really need to think again.
People use it because it sounds ugly. It is most often used by Gentiles who are accusing opponents of being anti-semitic or as they would say Jew-haters. It is very deliberately done and it is very unattractive
This gets stranger and stranger. You're saying it's pejorative and it is most often used in an "unattractive" way by opponents of anti-semitism?
Is it really so difficult these days to accept words at face value, without such tortuous speculation about how they may have been used in the past by one side or the other?
Having now got through about half of Nadine Dorries 'The Plot'. It is quite an extraordinary story. She has invented her own 'Deep Throat' and her conspiracy theories would leave Leon green with envy.
What's puzzling is why no one is suing. Surely Michael Gove wouldn't leave this stuff hanging? And he's just the tip of the iceberg. What Dominic Cummings is being accused of could affect his liberty. Though Nads obviously thinks this is just a money making novel I'm surprised her publisher don't take a more cautious view
Is there a potential legal defence that no sane person would believe a word she says?
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
You might be better using 'Jewish' than 'Jew'. It's less pejorative. Imagine you are talking about a doctor or a banker and then put your 'Jew' in front of it and you might get an idea of how unpleasant it sounds.
The word "Jew" really isn't pejorative.
It can be when used like that. On a related note, I'm half-convinced the term "jew hate" has only been used since I wondered on pb if the public understood the word antisemitism. No doubt mere coincidence but certainly it is not old enough to vote.
There was this scene in Schindler's List:
We give you a Jewish girl at five marks a day, Oskar. You should kiss us, not them. God forbid you ever get a real taste for Jewish skirt, there's no future in it. They don't have a future. That's not just good old fashioned Jew hating talk. It's policy now.
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
Updated for 17th November. Y-axis starts at zero:
Please add Sudanese, Yemeni, Syrian and Uigher deaths.
Be my guest if you feel so strongly.
You’re supposed to be a scientist of sorts. You know better than to present data like that shorn of all context.
What's wrong with the bar chart? It has a title, labels, and a Y-axis starting at zero.
Motive
It’s like comparing people murdered by Harold Shipman to accidental deaths in the NHS and implying that the NHS is more culpable than Dr Shipman
Well, the Israelis have basically carpet-bombed Gaza relentlessly for 6 weeks.
Which is basically a war crime. And the world remains silent. Very very sad…
Silent?????
Let's face it in a world of 7 billion people it's not very likely that many people will be paying attention to a few war crimes that might have been committed in a country the size of Wales.
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
Updated for 17th November. Y-axis starts at zero:
Please add Sudanese, Yemeni, Syrian and Uigher deaths.
Be my guest if you feel so strongly.
I don't.
Its those who feel strongly enough to join a protest who should explain why the Palestinians are different to all those other groups for whom there are never protests.
There's a Uyghur protest today in London. Are you going?
While some of these have not been on the same scale as pro-Palestinian protests, I think you exaggerate for the sake of your argument. There may well be inconsistent concern expressed about different conflicts around the world, but that doesn't mean the only explanation for that is that the protests are 100% driven by antisemitism.
From your link:
Hundreds of people have marched to the Syrian Embassy in London to show solidarity with those suffering from President Bashar Assad's crackdown.
So why hundreds against Syria and hundreds of thousands against Israel ?
People being persecuted in MENA, or across the Islamic world more generally, has happened continuously for generations.
They are effectively the 'control test' on how people react. Or more likely don't react.
Israel is the catalyst. Add a catalyst and the reaction begins.
I only know one person personally who has been on a pro-Palestinian protest. Said person is an Israeli citizen (by virtue of Jewish heritage) and talks of witnessing the discrimination against Palestinians/Israeli Arabs in Israel. So, Israel was the catalyst for that person to attend. But that wasn't antisemitism.
People go on pro-Palestinian protests for many reasons. To insist there is a single cause, to treat everyone the same, is a mistake at best.
Many reasons.
But there's one which dominates.
And not just at anti-Israel demonstrations - see Elon Musk as a further example.
An ad on the radio just now got me thinking about American cultural imports in the last decade. There have been many: the rate has definitely accelerated. To name just a few:
- Black Friday (that’s what triggered the thought) - “Season” rather than series - the final, grinding Bakhmut-style victory of “ATM” - “Woke” - “Culture war” - “Incel” - “Passed” instead of died (or even passed away) - “STEM” - A whole plethora of baseball expressions, like “circle back”
I could go on. During that time all we’ve managed in return is to give them “close of play”
Nonsense. We’ve also given them dozens of football expressions, for starters
Also “brilliant”, “wanker”, “posh” and multiple others. All making inroads
We don’t notice because we’re not American and don’t realise they don’t have these expressions, and when you encounter them in the States you don’t realise they are imports
That said, I do detest “Black Friday”, which is absolutely meaningless out of its Thanksgiving context, unlike, say, Halloween which is an original British export reimported, the same way we imported the Blues and gave it back to them in the 1960s
The one that amazes me is "fortnight". I've often been asked, "do you guys really say fortnight?" "Yes of course", I reply, "what do you say?" It seems that "two weeks" is quite sufficient for much of the world!
There's a whole bunch of related words that have fallen by the wayside. Sennight - Seven nights, a week. Overmorrow - The day after tomorrow. Yestereve - Yesterday evening. Ereyesterday - The day before yesterday.
So really the curiosity is how fortnight (lit. fourteen nights) has survived.
The modern calendar could do with a handy name for a week and the two weekends at each end of it - i.e. the nine days that constitute a school half-term, or your time away from work when, as a standard 5-day a week worker, you take a full 5 weekdays off as a holiday.
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
You might be better using 'Jewish' than 'Jew'. It's less pejorative. Imagine you are talking about a doctor or a banker and then put your 'Jew' in front of it and you might get an idea of how unpleasant it sounds.
The word "Jew" really isn't pejorative.
It can be when used like that. On a related note, I'm half-convinced the term "jew hate" has only been used since I wondered on pb if the public understood the word antisemitism. No doubt mere coincidence but certainly it is not old enough to vote.
Of course it can be used pejoratively. So can any number of other words - black, gay, Irish, man, woman, Tory, Socialist.
But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies.
But I’ve got good Jewish friends who object to it.
What if their noun of choice, if they object to the usual one?
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
You might be better using 'Jewish' than 'Jew'. It's less pejorative. Imagine you are talking about a doctor or a banker and then put your 'Jew' in front of it and you might get an idea of how unpleasant it sounds.
The word "Jew" really isn't pejorative.
It can be when used like that. On a related note, I'm half-convinced the term "jew hate" has only been used since I wondered on pb if the public understood the word antisemitism. No doubt mere coincidence but certainly it is not old enough to vote.
Of course it can be used pejoratively. So can any number of other words - black, gay, Irish, man, woman, Tory, Socialist.
But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies.
But I’ve got good Jewish friends who object to it.
What if their noun of choice, if they object to the usual one?
Jewish
Indeed you can see the difference in what I just said
I said
“I’ve got good Jewish friends who object to it”
Who on earth would say
“I’ve got good Jew friends who object to it”
You sound like Goebbels
I suppose you could use the convoluted
“I’ve got got good friends who are Jews who object to it” but that still sounds faintly creepy and, besides, takes an hour longer to say
But not like Rep George Santos who described himself as 'Jew-ish'.
An ad on the radio just now got me thinking about American cultural imports in the last decade. There have been many: the rate has definitely accelerated. To name just a few:
- Black Friday (that’s what triggered the thought) - “Season” rather than series - the final, grinding Bakhmut-style victory of “ATM” - “Woke” - “Culture war” - “Incel” - “Passed” instead of died (or even passed away) - “STEM” - A whole plethora of baseball expressions, like “circle back”
I could go on. During that time all we’ve managed in return is to give them “close of play”
IIUC, "awesome" is displacing "brilliant". Which is not...good
Hmmm.
Are not most of those are far older than 10 years? Many are 1990 or much earlier.
Some of them:
- "Awesome" has been in use here as an American import since the 1980s/early 1990s in my experience. Yes, it is like nails on a blackboard.
- "Culture War" is of at least similar vintage - having been used around eg the abortion debate in US politics. More recent in the UK in broader use, perhaps? I surmise that it comes from the German Kulturkampf, which is a 19C term around religious-secular conflict. An example would perhaps be how France developed their Laicite 'state religion'.
- "STEM" is again early 1990s. There was another 'Sciences and Engineering' acronym before it; it is imo one of those permanent promotional slogans that are always there, going round in circles.
- "Passed" - passed away has been around forever afaics. It's about a materialist culture not being comfortable with death, having forgotten the language and rituals to deal with it sensibly, and making up proxy-words to skirt around the edge. "Passed on" is in the Monty Python Dead Parrot sketch.
- "Season" - isn't this a hop-over from the theatre world in part - season of plays?
I'll agree on Black Friday, Woke, Incel.
Also on Baseball terms - they belong strictly in Charlie Brown Cartoons.
The older ones there though are an example of terms we resisted, for years or decades, and finally succumbed to. Hence the Bakhmut reference. I agree that Netflix is to blame for quite a few. Though not STEM.
“Sadly passed” has infected our language in no more than a year or so. Passed away / on was always in there as an occasionally used euphemism, but nobody is saying “died” about relatives or celebrities anymore. Is it American? I assumed so but perhaps it’s just a home grown trend.
"Sadly died" was the somewhat embarrassing phrase used everyday in Covid press conferences iirc, to virtue signal an emotional link without really acknowledging it or grappling with the import of events. Though I'd acknowledge that that must have been a horrible address to have to give for month after month.
I (for one) say "died" about everyone who has died; it's been a deliberate practice for me since my 20s, as one of my personal barriers to our culture and practices about death turning to schmaltz rather than looking it in the eye. I read a book looking at how culture was changing / had changed back then, especially around attempts within Western culture to ignore illness / debilitation / death, and agreed with it.
One thing I've done for every relative since has deliberately been to view the body to say good-bye; I think it far more healthy explicitly to mark such an important event to punctuate my life. I wouldn't go so far as to take a photograph.
Another area where we use euphemisms around death and injury is on our roads, interestingly - we say "a car left the road and ..." or "a car lost control ...", or "accident", or "died" to replace "was killed". Quite a lot of people are trying to fix that one. It's hardly a surprise - that is where we most see death and injury in public life. On that one the USA would be different, as they kill many times more people with their guns and motor vehicles than we do in Europe, and have preserved a greater familiarity therefore.
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
You might be better using 'Jewish' than 'Jew'. It's less pejorative. Imagine you are talking about a doctor or a banker and then put your 'Jew' in front of it and you might get an idea of how unpleasant it sounds.
The word "Jew" really isn't pejorative.
It can be when used like that. On a related note, I'm half-convinced the term "jew hate" has only been used since I wondered on pb if the public understood the word antisemitism. No doubt mere coincidence but certainly it is not old enough to vote.
Of course it can be used pejoratively. So can any number of other words - black, gay, Irish, man, woman, Tory, Socialist.
But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies.
In a phrase like "jew doctor", it is.
I'm not sure quite what you are having trouble understanding in the comment "Of course it can be used pejoratively. ... But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies."
The difference between using it as a noun and an adjective surely?
Jew art Jewish art Art by a Jew
Context is all of course but the first one could only be pejorative I think.
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
You might be better using 'Jewish' than 'Jew'. It's less pejorative. Imagine you are talking about a doctor or a banker and then put your 'Jew' in front of it and you might get an idea of how unpleasant it sounds.
The word "Jew" really isn't pejorative.
It can have about the same meaning as the rather abbreviated form of "Pakistani". Would you use that?
If you think the word "Jew" is pejorative per se, then you really need to think again.
People use it because it sounds ugly. It is most often used by Gentiles who are accusing opponents of being anti-semitic or as they would say Jew-haters. It is very deliberately done and it is very unattractive
This gets stranger and stranger. You're saying it's pejorative and it is most often used in an "unattractive" way by opponents of anti-semitism?
Is it really so difficult these days to accept words at face value, without such tortuous speculation about how they may have been used in the past by one side or the other?
If you want to know about anyone’s social circle, in relation to this ongoing political drama, do you actually say, “by the way, do you have any Jew friends?”
Because, if someone asked me that, in that way, I’d step away from them fairly quickly, and try not to talk to them, again. Certainly on that subject
Ditto “Jew lawyer”, “Jew banker”, “Jew doctor”, they all sound decidedly offensive, and ugly. So yes, it can definitely be pejorative, I don’t think this is arguable
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
You might be better using 'Jewish' than 'Jew'. It's less pejorative. Imagine you are talking about a doctor or a banker and then put your 'Jew' in front of it and you might get an idea of how unpleasant it sounds.
The word "Jew" really isn't pejorative.
It can have about the same meaning as the rather abbreviated form of "Pakistani". Would you use that?
If you think the word "Jew" is pejorative per se, then you really need to think again.
People use it because it sounds ugly. It is most often used by Gentiles who are accusing opponents of being anti-semitic or as they would say Jew-haters. It is very deliberately done and it is very unattractive
The fact it is ugly explains why 'Jew haters' is a good way to describe so many of the most egregious protesters.
An ad on the radio just now got me thinking about American cultural imports in the last decade. There have been many: the rate has definitely accelerated. To name just a few:
- Black Friday (that’s what triggered the thought) - “Season” rather than series - the final, grinding Bakhmut-style victory of “ATM” - “Woke” - “Culture war” - “Incel” - “Passed” instead of died (or even passed away) - “STEM” - A whole plethora of baseball expressions, like “circle back”
I could go on. During that time all we’ve managed in return is to give them “close of play”
Nonsense. We’ve also given them dozens of football expressions, for starters
Also “brilliant”, “wanker”, “posh” and multiple others. All making inroads
We don’t notice because we’re not American and don’t realise they don’t have these expressions, and when you encounter them in the States you don’t realise they are imports
That said, I do detest “Black Friday”, which is absolutely meaningless out of its Thanksgiving context, unlike, say, Halloween which is an original British export reimported, the same way we imported the Blues and gave it back to them in the 1960s
I also get the impression that Americans are starting say 'film' more when they once would only have said 'movie'.
Yep, the perceived poshness of British English means they import loads of words, as I say we just don’t notice
It has the prestige of, say, French in British English in the 19th century, when the socially ambitious would litter their prose with French phrases
I also I like to listen to foreigners talking their weird foreign languages, to catch the English imports. You can be listening to two people speaking Polish and they will suddenly say “oh my God” or “fucking hell” - then they go back to Polish or Punjabi or whatever
I saw some small children playing football in Corfu once. Suddenly one of them yelled out 'Missed by a mile!' before reverting back to Greek.
I remember watching Borgen over 10 years ago, where apparently there was no danish equivalent for '15 minutes of fame'.
Nordic languages are so overloaded with Anglicisms they might as well speak English. Indeed there must be a decent chance they will, in two or three generations
Relatedly, when I was kayaking this morning, I did it with a Khmer guide, and a nice young French couple. The Khmer guy obviously spoke English, albeit haltingly, the French guy had some as well - but, unusually, the French woman seemed to have no English at all. So he translated everything for her
She looked embarrassed by her lack of English, she blushed a couple of times. It reminded me of how absurdly lucky we are to have the English language as the global language. It means we don’t have to worry about anything to do with language, it will all be in our language, it is probably bad for us and makes us lazy, nonetheless when people bang on about the evil of the British Empire, you should also say a quiet prayer of thanks that our belligerent ancestors made sure everyone speaks our tongue
Luck has little to do with it. We worked bloody hard at taking over most of the world and making Johnny Foreigner speak the Queen's English through much of the nineteenth century.
There was a lot of luck.
There's always a lot of luck involved in life.
It was luck that Britain was fertile ground for the industrial revolution and luck with the natural defence and trade advantages from the sea and luck that there's always been multiple European countries competing against each other rather than one hostile continental sized Empire.
Britain was able to make the best of that luck between 1600 and 1900.
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
Updated for 17th November. Y-axis starts at zero:
Please add Sudanese, Yemeni, Syrian and Uigher deaths.
Be my guest if you feel so strongly.
I don't.
Its those who feel strongly enough to join a protest who should explain why the Palestinians are different to all those other groups for whom there are never protests.
There's a Uyghur protest today in London. Are you going?
While some of these have not been on the same scale as pro-Palestinian protests, I think you exaggerate for the sake of your argument. There may well be inconsistent concern expressed about different conflicts around the world, but that doesn't mean the only explanation for that is that the protests are 100% driven by antisemitism.
From your link:
Hundreds of people have marched to the Syrian Embassy in London to show solidarity with those suffering from President Bashar Assad's crackdown.
So why hundreds against Syria and hundreds of thousands against Israel ?
People being persecuted in MENA, or across the Islamic world more generally, has happened continuously for generations.
They are effectively the 'control test' on how people react. Or more likely don't react.
Israel is the catalyst. Add a catalyst and the reaction begins.
I only know one person personally who has been on a pro-Palestinian protest. Said person is an Israeli citizen (by virtue of Jewish heritage) and talks of witnessing the discrimination against Palestinians/Israeli Arabs in Israel. So, Israel was the catalyst for that person to attend. But that wasn't antisemitism.
People go on pro-Palestinian protests for many reasons. To insist there is a single cause, to treat everyone the same, is a mistake at best.
Many reasons.
But there's one which dominates.
And not just at anti-Israel demonstrations - see Elon Musk as a further example.
There is, tragically, much antisemitism in the world. I've been banging on about Twitter's and Musk's personal antisemitism here for some days. But it is also racist to seek to dismiss any criticism of Israel, any statement in support of the Palestinians, as being motivated by antisemitism. We do not combat the antisemitism in the world by misusing it as a slur to dismiss any concern about what is happening in Gaza.
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
Updated for 17th November. Y-axis starts at zero:
Please add Sudanese, Yemeni, Syrian and Uigher deaths.
One of the other lesser reported conflicts is the Myanmar civil war, with around 42k dead since 2021, with some possibly significant recent gains by the anti-government forces.
Curious how Myanmar has become such a horrible place whereas neighbouring Thailand has developed pretty well.
Thailand was never colonized, and became a British protectorate instead. They thus preserved their monarchy (and the social structure that goes with it), which has been absolutely key to their comparative stability, meaning they have avoided the absolute hell visited on neighbouring Indochinese states, but the British empire saved them from external savagery and then the Americans took over
A long-lived stable monarchy is one of the best ways of avoiding political horror (not guaranteed, but it definitely helps)
In the Arab spring all the countries that had successful revolutions or descended into civil war were republics. All the monarchies survived relatively unscathed.
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
You might be better using 'Jewish' than 'Jew'. It's less pejorative. Imagine you are talking about a doctor or a banker and then put your 'Jew' in front of it and you might get an idea of how unpleasant it sounds.
The word "Jew" really isn't pejorative.
It can have about the same meaning as the rather abbreviated form of "Pakistani". Would you use that?
If you think the word "Jew" is pejorative per se, then you really need to think again.
People use it because it sounds ugly. It is most often used by Gentiles who are accusing opponents of being anti-semitic or as they would say Jew-haters. It is very deliberately done and it is very unattractive
This gets stranger and stranger. You're saying it's pejorative and it is most often used in an "unattractive" way by opponents of anti-semitism?
Is it really so difficult these days to accept words at face value, without such tortuous speculation about how they may have been used in the past by one side or the other?
If you want to know about anyone’s social circle, in relation to this ongoing political drama, do you actually say, “by the way, do you have any Jew friends?”
Because, if someone asked me that, in that way, I’d step away from them fairly quickly, and try not to talk to them, again. Certainly on that subject
Ditto “Jew lawyer”, “Jew banker”, “Jew doctor”, they all sound decidedly offensive, and ugly. So yes, it can definitely be pejorative, I don’t think this is arguable
Is it something around the style usage? "Jew Boy etc" turns a noun into an adjective.
Jew / Jewish separates the noun and the adjective.
Muslim does not; they are the same.
Is this a common thing? I'm not sure.
"Disabled people" (adjective) is fine. "The disabled" (noun) is I think generally not.
An ad on the radio just now got me thinking about American cultural imports in the last decade. There have been many: the rate has definitely accelerated. To name just a few:
- Black Friday (that’s what triggered the thought) - “Season” rather than series - the final, grinding Bakhmut-style victory of “ATM” - “Woke” - “Culture war” - “Incel” - “Passed” instead of died (or even passed away) - “STEM” - A whole plethora of baseball expressions, like “circle back”
I could go on. During that time all we’ve managed in return is to give them “close of play”
Nonsense. We’ve also given them dozens of football expressions, for starters
Also “brilliant”, “wanker”, “posh” and multiple others. All making inroads
We don’t notice because we’re not American and don’t realise they don’t have these expressions, and when you encounter them in the States you don’t realise they are imports
That said, I do detest “Black Friday”, which is absolutely meaningless out of its Thanksgiving context, unlike, say, Halloween which is an original British export reimported, the same way we imported the Blues and gave it back to them in the 1960s
The one that amazes me is "fortnight". I've often been asked, "do you guys really say fortnight?" "Yes of course", I reply, "what do you say?" It seems that "two weeks" is quite sufficient for much of the world!
There's a whole bunch of related words that have fallen by the wayside. Sennight - Seven nights, a week. Overmorrow - The day after tomorrow. Yestereve - Yesterday evening. Ereyesterday - The day before yesterday.
So really the curiosity is how fortnight (lit. fourteen nights) has survived.
The modern calendar could do with a handy name for a week and the two weekends at each end of it - i.e. the nine days that constitute a school half-term, or your time away from work when, as a standard 5-day a week worker, you take a full 5 weekdays off as a holiday.
French quinzaine is neat and frequently used. I particularly like “une petite quinzaine”
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
Updated for 17th November. Y-axis starts at zero:
Please add Sudanese, Yemeni, Syrian and Uigher deaths.
Be my guest if you feel so strongly.
I don't.
Its those who feel strongly enough to join a protest who should explain why the Palestinians are different to all those other groups for whom there are never protests.
There's a Uyghur protest today in London. Are you going?
While some of these have not been on the same scale as pro-Palestinian protests, I think you exaggerate for the sake of your argument. There may well be inconsistent concern expressed about different conflicts around the world, but that doesn't mean the only explanation for that is that the protests are 100% driven by antisemitism.
From your link:
Hundreds of people have marched to the Syrian Embassy in London to show solidarity with those suffering from President Bashar Assad's crackdown.
So why hundreds against Syria and hundreds of thousands against Israel ?
People being persecuted in MENA, or across the Islamic world more generally, has happened continuously for generations.
They are effectively the 'control test' on how people react. Or more likely don't react.
Israel is the catalyst. Add a catalyst and the reaction begins.
I only know one person personally who has been on a pro-Palestinian protest. Said person is an Israeli citizen (by virtue of Jewish heritage) and talks of witnessing the discrimination against Palestinians/Israeli Arabs in Israel. So, Israel was the catalyst for that person to attend. But that wasn't antisemitism.
People go on pro-Palestinian protests for many reasons. To insist there is a single cause, to treat everyone the same, is a mistake at best.
Many reasons.
But there's one which dominates.
And not just at anti-Israel demonstrations - see Elon Musk as a further example.
There is, tragically, much antisemitism in the world. I've been banging on about Twitter's and Musk's personal antisemitism here for some days. But it is also racist to seek to dismiss any criticism of Israel, any statement in support of the Palestinians, as being motivated by antisemitism. We do not combat the antisemitism in the world by misusing it as a slur to dismiss any concern about what is happening in Gaza.
There are things that Israel can be criticised for.
There are things that any and every country can be criticised for.
But when Israel is being singled out for criticism then its perfectly legitimate, perhaps even necessary given the history of antisemitism, to ask why that criticism is being made.
An ad on the radio just now got me thinking about American cultural imports in the last decade. There have been many: the rate has definitely accelerated. To name just a few:
- Black Friday (that’s what triggered the thought) - “Season” rather than series - the final, grinding Bakhmut-style victory of “ATM” - “Woke” - “Culture war” - “Incel” - “Passed” instead of died (or even passed away) - “STEM” - A whole plethora of baseball expressions, like “circle back”
I could go on. During that time all we’ve managed in return is to give them “close of play”
Nonsense. We’ve also given them dozens of football expressions, for starters
Also “brilliant”, “wanker”, “posh” and multiple others. All making inroads
We don’t notice because we’re not American and don’t realise they don’t have these expressions, and when you encounter them in the States you don’t realise they are imports
That said, I do detest “Black Friday”, which is absolutely meaningless out of its Thanksgiving context, unlike, say, Halloween which is an original British export reimported, the same way we imported the Blues and gave it back to them in the 1960s
The one that amazes me is "fortnight". I've often been asked, "do you guys really say fortnight?" "Yes of course", I reply, "what do you say?" It seems that "two weeks" is quite sufficient for much of the world!
There's a whole bunch of related words that have fallen by the wayside. Sennight - Seven nights, a week. Overmorrow - The day after tomorrow. Yestereve - Yesterday evening. Ereyesterday - The day before yesterday.
So really the curiosity is how fortnight (lit. fourteen nights) has survived.
The modern calendar could do with a handy name for a week and the two weekends at each end of it - i.e. the nine days that constitute a school half-term, or your time away from work when, as a standard 5-day a week worker, you take a full 5 weekdays off as a holiday.
French quinzaine is neat and frequently used. I particularly like “une petite quinzaine”
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
You might be better using 'Jewish' than 'Jew'. It's less pejorative. Imagine you are talking about a doctor or a banker and then put your 'Jew' in front of it and you might get an idea of how unpleasant it sounds.
The word "Jew" really isn't pejorative.
It can be when used like that. On a related note, I'm half-convinced the term "jew hate" has only been used since I wondered on pb if the public understood the word antisemitism. No doubt mere coincidence but certainly it is not old enough to vote.
Of course it can be used pejoratively. So can any number of other words - black, gay, Irish, man, woman, Tory, Socialist.
But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies.
In a phrase like "jew doctor", it is.
I'm not sure quite what you are having trouble understanding in the comment "Of course it can be used pejoratively. ... But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies."
The difference between using it as a noun and an adjective surely?
Jew art Jewish art Art by a Jew
Context is all of course but the first one could only be pejorative I think.
Thank heaven someone here understands the difference between a noun and an adjective. Perhaps not all is lost.
Obviously the word "Jew" is properly a noun. And yes, I'd agree its use as an adjective is normally pejorative (as well as ungrammatical). But to suggest it's pejorative when it's used as a noun is ridiculous.
An ad on the radio just now got me thinking about American cultural imports in the last decade. There have been many: the rate has definitely accelerated. To name just a few:
- Black Friday (that’s what triggered the thought) - “Season” rather than series - the final, grinding Bakhmut-style victory of “ATM” - “Woke” - “Culture war” - “Incel” - “Passed” instead of died (or even passed away) - “STEM” - A whole plethora of baseball expressions, like “circle back”
I could go on. During that time all we’ve managed in return is to give them “close of play”
Nonsense. We’ve also given them dozens of football expressions, for starters
Also “brilliant”, “wanker”, “posh” and multiple others. All making inroads
We don’t notice because we’re not American and don’t realise they don’t have these expressions, and when you encounter them in the States you don’t realise they are imports
That said, I do detest “Black Friday”, which is absolutely meaningless out of its Thanksgiving context, unlike, say, Halloween which is an original British export reimported, the same way we imported the Blues and gave it back to them in the 1960s
I also get the impression that Americans are starting say 'film' more when they once would only have said 'movie'.
Yep, the perceived poshness of British English means they import loads of words, as I say we just don’t notice
It has the prestige of, say, French in British English in the 19th century, when the socially ambitious would litter their prose with French phrases
I also I like to listen to foreigners talking their weird foreign languages, to catch the English imports. You can be listening to two people speaking Polish and they will suddenly say “oh my God” or “fucking hell” - then they go back to Polish or Punjabi or whatever
I saw some small children playing football in Corfu once. Suddenly one of them yelled out 'Missed by a mile!' before reverting back to Greek.
I remember watching Borgen over 10 years ago, where apparently there was no danish equivalent for '15 minutes of fame'.
Nordic languages are so overloaded with Anglicisms they might as well speak English. Indeed there must be a decent chance they will, in two or three generations
Relatedly, when I was kayaking this morning, I did it with a Khmer guide, and a nice young French couple. The Khmer guy obviously spoke English, albeit haltingly, the French guy had some as well - but, unusually, the French woman seemed to have no English at all. So he translated everything for her
She looked embarrassed by her lack of English, she blushed a couple of times. It reminded me of how absurdly lucky we are to have the English language as the global language. It means we don’t have to worry about anything to do with language, it will all be in our language, it is probably bad for us and makes us lazy, nonetheless when people bang on about the evil of the British Empire, you should also say a quiet prayer of thanks that our belligerent ancestors made sure everyone speaks our tongue
Luck has little to do with it. We worked bloody hard at taking over most of the world and making Johnny Foreigner speak the Queen's English through much of the nineteenth century.
True. i was just trying to say it nicely
Returning to Americanisms, I’ve been using the word “gas” for “petrol” for years. It’s just easier. And sounds better and juicier
“Put some petrol in” sounds ridiculous to me, like you are seeking some obscure chemical for a complex mechanical issue
“Fill it with gas” is superior. As is “gas station”.
It’s the converse of “I am looking for an apartment”. “Flat” is way better
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
Updated for 17th November. Y-axis starts at zero:
Please add Sudanese, Yemeni, Syrian and Uigher deaths.
Be my guest if you feel so strongly.
I don't.
Its those who feel strongly enough to join a protest who should explain why the Palestinians are different to all those other groups for whom there are never protests.
There's a Uyghur protest today in London. Are you going?
While some of these have not been on the same scale as pro-Palestinian protests, I think you exaggerate for the sake of your argument. There may well be inconsistent concern expressed about different conflicts around the world, but that doesn't mean the only explanation for that is that the protests are 100% driven by antisemitism.
From your link:
Hundreds of people have marched to the Syrian Embassy in London to show solidarity with those suffering from President Bashar Assad's crackdown.
So why hundreds against Syria and hundreds of thousands against Israel ?
People being persecuted in MENA, or across the Islamic world more generally, has happened continuously for generations.
They are effectively the 'control test' on how people react. Or more likely don't react.
Israel is the catalyst. Add a catalyst and the reaction begins.
I only know one person personally who has been on a pro-Palestinian protest. Said person is an Israeli citizen (by virtue of Jewish heritage) and talks of witnessing the discrimination against Palestinians/Israeli Arabs in Israel. So, Israel was the catalyst for that person to attend. But that wasn't antisemitism.
People go on pro-Palestinian protests for many reasons. To insist there is a single cause, to treat everyone the same, is a mistake at best.
Many reasons.
But there's one which dominates.
And not just at anti-Israel demonstrations - see Elon Musk as a further example.
There is, tragically, much antisemitism in the world. I've been banging on about Twitter's and Musk's personal antisemitism here for some days. But it is also racist to seek to dismiss any criticism of Israel, any statement in support of the Palestinians, as being motivated by antisemitism. We do not combat the antisemitism in the world by misusing it as a slur to dismiss any concern about what is happening in Gaza.
There are things that Israel can be criticised for.
There are things that any and every country can be criticised for.
But when Israel is being singled out for criticism then its perfectly legitimate, perhaps even necessary given the history of antisemitism, to ask why that criticism is being made.
Sure, do that then. However, saying, "There are no pro-Palestinian protestors." is not doing that. It's just mirroring the same sin as the antisemitism when people start with criticism of Israel's policies and then start attacking all Jewish people, treating all people as being collectively guilty for the actions of a few.
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
Updated for 17th November. Y-axis starts at zero:
Please add Sudanese, Yemeni, Syrian and Uigher deaths.
One of the other lesser reported conflicts is the Myanmar civil war, with around 42k dead since 2021, with some possibly significant recent gains by the anti-government forces.
Curious how Myanmar has become such a horrible place whereas neighbouring Thailand has developed pretty well.
Thailand was never colonized, and became a British protectorate instead. They thus preserved their monarchy (and the social structure that goes with it), which has been absolutely key to their comparative stability, meaning they have avoided the absolute hell visited on neighbouring Indochinese states, but the British empire saved them from external savagery and then the Americans took over
A long-lived stable monarchy is one of the best ways of avoiding political horror (not guaranteed, but it definitely helps)
In the Arab spring all the countries that had successful revolutions or descended into civil war were republics. All the monarchies survived relatively unscathed.
Yep. Morocco is the classic example. It is still poor - so should have been ripe for revolution, like Egypt, or Libya. Yet it remains comparatively stable - and the monarchy must play a role in that
An ad on the radio just now got me thinking about American cultural imports in the last decade. There have been many: the rate has definitely accelerated. To name just a few:
- Black Friday (that’s what triggered the thought) - “Season” rather than series - the final, grinding Bakhmut-style victory of “ATM” - “Woke” - “Culture war” - “Incel” - “Passed” instead of died (or even passed away) - “STEM” - A whole plethora of baseball expressions, like “circle back”
I could go on. During that time all we’ve managed in return is to give them “close of play”
IIUC, "awesome" is displacing "brilliant". Which is not...good
Hmmm.
Are not most of those are far older than 10 years? Many are 1990 or much earlier.
Some of them:
- "Awesome" has been in use here as an American import since the 1980s/early 1990s in my experience. Yes, it is like nails on a blackboard.
- "Culture War" is of at least similar vintage - having been used around eg the abortion debate in US politics. More recent in the UK in broader use, perhaps? I surmise that it comes from the German Kulturkampf, which is a 19C term around religious-secular conflict. An example would perhaps be how France developed their Laicite 'state religion'.
- "STEM" is again early 1990s. There was another 'Sciences and Engineering' acronym before it; it is imo one of those permanent promotional slogans that are always there, going round in circles.
- "Passed" - passed away has been around forever afaics. It's about a materialist culture not being comfortable with death, having forgotten the language and rituals to deal with it sensibly, and making up proxy-words to skirt around the edge. "Passed on" is in the Monty Python Dead Parrot sketch.
- "Season" - isn't this a hop-over from the theatre world in part - season of plays?
I'll agree on Black Friday, Woke, Incel.
Also on Baseball terms - they belong strictly in Charlie Brown Cartoons.
The older ones there though are an example of terms we resisted, for years or decades, and finally succumbed to. Hence the Bakhmut reference. I agree that Netflix is to blame for quite a few. Though not STEM.
“Sadly passed” has infected our language in no more than a year or so. Passed away / on was always in there as an occasionally used euphemism, but nobody is saying “died” about relatives or celebrities anymore. Is it American? I assumed so but perhaps it’s just a home grown trend.
"Sadly died" was the somewhat embarrassing phrase used everyday in Covid press conferences iirc, to virtue signal an emotional link without really acknowledging it or grappling with the import of events. Though I'd acknowledge that that must have been a horrible address to have to give for month after month.
I (for one) say "died" about everyone who has died; it's been a deliberate practice for me since my 20s, as one of my personal barriers to our culture and practices about death turning to schmaltz rather than looking it in the eye. I read a book looking at how culture was changing / had changed back then, especially around attempts within Western culture to ignore illness / debilitation / death, and agreed with it.
One thing I've done for every relative since has deliberately been to view the body to say good-bye; I think it far more healthy explicitly to mark such an important event to punctuate my life. I wouldn't go so far as to take a photograph.
Another area where we use euphemisms around death and injury is on our roads, interestingly - we say "a car left the road and ..." or "a car lost control ...", or "accident", or "died" to replace "was killed". Quite a lot of people are trying to fix that one. It's hardly a surprise - that is where we most see death and injury in public life. On that one the USA would be different, as they kill many times more people with their guns and motor vehicles than we do in Europe, and have preserved a greater familiarity therefore.
Yes. When my wife died (many years ago), the various euphemisms that people used to try to avoid facing the reality head-on tried my patience no end. She hasn't passed on; she isn't at rest; she is dead, with all the enormity and finality that that little word holds.
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
You might be better using 'Jewish' than 'Jew'. It's less pejorative. Imagine you are talking about a doctor or a banker and then put your 'Jew' in front of it and you might get an idea of how unpleasant it sounds.
The word "Jew" really isn't pejorative.
It can have about the same meaning as the rather abbreviated form of "Pakistani". Would you use that?
If you think the word "Jew" is pejorative per se, then you really need to think again.
People use it because it sounds ugly. It is most often used by Gentiles who are accusing opponents of being anti-semitic or as they would say Jew-haters. It is very deliberately done and it is very unattractive
This gets stranger and stranger. You're saying it's pejorative and it is most often used in an "unattractive" way by opponents of anti-semitism?
Is it really so difficult these days to accept words at face value, without such tortuous speculation about how they may have been used in the past by one side or the other?
If you want to know about anyone’s social circle, in relation to this ongoing political drama, do you actually say, “by the way, do you have any Jew friends?”
Because, if someone asked me that, in that way, I’d step away from them fairly quickly, and try not to talk to them, again. Certainly on that subject
Ditto “Jew lawyer”, “Jew banker”, “Jew doctor”, they all sound decidedly offensive, and ugly. So yes, it can definitely be pejorative, I don’t think this is arguable
If I had a friend who used a lawyer who wasn't Jewish, I'd step away from then pretty quickly.
As an aside, will people stop complaining about specific rapists, murders and other criminals.
Unless you criticize all criminals equally at all times, then your picking out of specific criminals just demonstrates your prejudices: clearly you don't really care about rape, murder, etc unless you are equally fervent in your denunciation of all acts and actors.
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
Updated for 17th November. Y-axis starts at zero:
Please add Sudanese, Yemeni, Syrian and Uigher deaths.
Be my guest if you feel so strongly.
I don't.
Its those who feel strongly enough to join a protest who should explain why the Palestinians are different to all those other groups for whom there are never protests.
There's a Uyghur protest today in London. Are you going?
While some of these have not been on the same scale as pro-Palestinian protests, I think you exaggerate for the sake of your argument. There may well be inconsistent concern expressed about different conflicts around the world, but that doesn't mean the only explanation for that is that the protests are 100% driven by antisemitism.
From your link:
Hundreds of people have marched to the Syrian Embassy in London to show solidarity with those suffering from President Bashar Assad's crackdown.
So why hundreds against Syria and hundreds of thousands against Israel ?
People being persecuted in MENA, or across the Islamic world more generally, has happened continuously for generations.
They are effectively the 'control test' on how people react. Or more likely don't react.
Israel is the catalyst. Add a catalyst and the reaction begins.
I only know one person personally who has been on a pro-Palestinian protest. Said person is an Israeli citizen (by virtue of Jewish heritage) and talks of witnessing the discrimination against Palestinians/Israeli Arabs in Israel. So, Israel was the catalyst for that person to attend. But that wasn't antisemitism.
People go on pro-Palestinian protests for many reasons. To insist there is a single cause, to treat everyone the same, is a mistake at best.
Many reasons.
But there's one which dominates.
And not just at anti-Israel demonstrations - see Elon Musk as a further example.
There is, tragically, much antisemitism in the world. I've been banging on about Twitter's and Musk's personal antisemitism here for some days. But it is also racist to seek to dismiss any criticism of Israel, any statement in support of the Palestinians, as being motivated by antisemitism. We do not combat the antisemitism in the world by misusing it as a slur to dismiss any concern about what is happening in Gaza.
There are things that Israel can be criticised for.
There are things that any and every country can be criticised for.
But when Israel is being singled out for criticism then its perfectly legitimate, perhaps even necessary given the history of antisemitism, to ask why that criticism is being made.
Sure, do that then. However, saying, "There are no pro-Palestinian protestors." is not doing that. It's just mirroring the same sin as antisemitism, treating all people as being collectively guilty for the actions of a few.
Its not a few though is it.
And trying to downplay it is all part of accepting it.
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
You might be better using 'Jewish' than 'Jew'. It's less pejorative. Imagine you are talking about a doctor or a banker and then put your 'Jew' in front of it and you might get an idea of how unpleasant it sounds.
The word "Jew" really isn't pejorative.
It can have about the same meaning as the rather abbreviated form of "Pakistani". Would you use that?
If you think the word "Jew" is pejorative per se, then you really need to think again.
People use it because it sounds ugly. It is most often used by Gentiles who are accusing opponents of being anti-semitic or as they would say Jew-haters. It is very deliberately done and it is very unattractive
This gets stranger and stranger. You're saying it's pejorative and it is most often used in an "unattractive" way by opponents of anti-semitism?
Is it really so difficult these days to accept words at face value, without such tortuous speculation about how they may have been used in the past by one side or the other?
If you want to know about anyone’s social circle, in relation to this ongoing political drama, do you actually say, “by the way, do you have any Jew friends?”
Because, if someone asked me that, in that way, I’d step away from them fairly quickly, and try not to talk to them, again. Certainly on that subject
Ditto “Jew lawyer”, “Jew banker”, “Jew doctor”, they all sound decidedly offensive, and ugly. So yes, it can definitely be pejorative, I don’t think this is arguable
If I had a friend who used a lawyer who wasn't Jewish, I'd step away from then pretty quickly.
Cue the family tales of doing NAACP work in the South during the fun times.
Complete with stories about the bodyguards they got - rough looking characters sent by people from the old neighbourhood who weren't especially welcome at the synagogue.
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
You might be better using 'Jewish' than 'Jew'. It's less pejorative. Imagine you are talking about a doctor or a banker and then put your 'Jew' in front of it and you might get an idea of how unpleasant it sounds.
The word "Jew" really isn't pejorative.
It can be when used like that. On a related note, I'm half-convinced the term "jew hate" has only been used since I wondered on pb if the public understood the word antisemitism. No doubt mere coincidence but certainly it is not old enough to vote.
Of course it can be used pejoratively. So can any number of other words - black, gay, Irish, man, woman, Tory, Socialist.
But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies.
In a phrase like "jew doctor", it is.
I'm not sure quite what you are having trouble understanding in the comment "Of course it can be used pejoratively. ... But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies."
The difference between using it as a noun and an adjective surely?
Jew art Jewish art Art by a Jew
Context is all of course but the first one could only be pejorative I think.
Thank heaven someone here understands the difference between a noun and an adjective. Perhaps not all is lost.
Obviously the word "Jew" is properly a noun. And yes, I'd agree its use as an adjective is normally pejorative (as well as ungrammatical). But to suggest it's pejorative when it's used as a noun is ridiculous.
An ad on the radio just now got me thinking about American cultural imports in the last decade. There have been many: the rate has definitely accelerated. To name just a few:
- Black Friday (that’s what triggered the thought) - “Season” rather than series - the final, grinding Bakhmut-style victory of “ATM” - “Woke” - “Culture war” - “Incel” - “Passed” instead of died (or even passed away) - “STEM” - A whole plethora of baseball expressions, like “circle back”
I could go on. During that time all we’ve managed in return is to give them “close of play”
Nonsense. We’ve also given them dozens of football expressions, for starters
Also “brilliant”, “wanker”, “posh” and multiple others. All making inroads
We don’t notice because we’re not American and don’t realise they don’t have these expressions, and when you encounter them in the States you don’t realise they are imports
That said, I do detest “Black Friday”, which is absolutely meaningless out of its Thanksgiving context, unlike, say, Halloween which is an original British export reimported, the same way we imported the Blues and gave it back to them in the 1960s
I also get the impression that Americans are starting say 'film' more when they once would only have said 'movie'.
Yep, the perceived poshness of British English means they import loads of words, as I say we just don’t notice
It has the prestige of, say, French in British English in the 19th century, when the socially ambitious would litter their prose with French phrases
I also I like to listen to foreigners talking their weird foreign languages, to catch the English imports. You can be listening to two people speaking Polish and they will suddenly say “oh my God” or “fucking hell” - then they go back to Polish or Punjabi or whatever
I saw some small children playing football in Corfu once. Suddenly one of them yelled out 'Missed by a mile!' before reverting back to Greek.
I remember watching Borgen over 10 years ago, where apparently there was no danish equivalent for '15 minutes of fame'.
Nordic languages are so overloaded with Anglicisms they might as well speak English. Indeed there must be a decent chance they will, in two or three generations
Relatedly, when I was kayaking this morning, I did it with a Khmer guide, and a nice young French couple. The Khmer guy obviously spoke English, albeit haltingly, the French guy had some as well - but, unusually, the French woman seemed to have no English at all. So he translated everything for her
She looked embarrassed by her lack of English, she blushed a couple of times. It reminded me of how absurdly lucky we are to have the English language as the global language. It means we don’t have to worry about anything to do with language, it will all be in our language, it is probably bad for us and makes us lazy, nonetheless when people bang on about the evil of the British Empire, you should also say a quiet prayer of thanks that our belligerent ancestors made sure everyone speaks our tongue
Luck has little to do with it. We worked bloody hard at taking over most of the world and making Johnny Foreigner speak the Queen's English through much of the nineteenth century.
True. i was just trying to say it nicely
Returning to Americanisms, I’ve been using the word “gas” for “petrol” for years. It’s just easier. And sounds better and juicier
“Put some petrol in” sounds ridiculous to me, like you are seeking some obscure chemical for a complex mechanical issue
“Fill it with gas” is superior. As is “gas station”.
It’s the converse of “I am looking for an apartment”. “Flat” is way better
"Fill it with gas" just sounds like a cheesy Americanism.
Some that may or may not have gone the other way:
Has 'car' for automobile always been a thing in the States? I always thought 'auto' was the term but a bunch of Americans I met recently seemed to opt for car over auto.
Similarly tram rather than streetcar.
And when did fish and chips become a staple fast food in the US?
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
You might be better using 'Jewish' than 'Jew'. It's less pejorative. Imagine you are talking about a doctor or a banker and then put your 'Jew' in front of it and you might get an idea of how unpleasant it sounds.
The word "Jew" really isn't pejorative.
It can be when used like that. On a related note, I'm half-convinced the term "jew hate" has only been used since I wondered on pb if the public understood the word antisemitism. No doubt mere coincidence but certainly it is not old enough to vote.
Of course it can be used pejoratively. So can any number of other words - black, gay, Irish, man, woman, Tory, Socialist.
But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies.
In a phrase like "jew doctor", it is.
I'm not sure quite what you are having trouble understanding in the comment "Of course it can be used pejoratively. ... But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies."
The difference between using it as a noun and an adjective surely?
Jew art Jewish art Art by a Jew
Context is all of course but the first one could only be pejorative I think.
Thank heaven someone here understands the difference between a noun and an adjective. Perhaps not all is lost.
Obviously the word "Jew" is properly a noun. And yes, I'd agree its use as an adjective is normally pejorative (as well as ungrammatical). But to suggest it's pejorative when it's used as a noun is ridiculous.
It can be pejorative even when used as a noun
“Yes, he’s a Jew”
“My lawyer is a Jew”
“That painting is by a Jew”
“Yes, and she’s a Jew”
It is thanks to the many centuries of anti Semitism and it logically shouldn’t be the case, but it is a fact that even the simplest use of the noun “Jew” can sound grating and potentially offensive
Perhaps we are all over sensitive but Them’s the times we live in
Compare with the similarly tortured way we try to find the right words for “black people” - that’s an even nastier verbal minefield, such that we have recently outlawed “black and minority ethnic people” as also being offensive. I forget what is the correct term of the moment
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
You might be better using 'Jewish' than 'Jew'. It's less pejorative. Imagine you are talking about a doctor or a banker and then put your 'Jew' in front of it and you might get an idea of how unpleasant it sounds.
The word "Jew" really isn't pejorative.
It can be when used like that. On a related note, I'm half-convinced the term "jew hate" has only been used since I wondered on pb if the public understood the word antisemitism. No doubt mere coincidence but certainly it is not old enough to vote.
Of course it can be used pejoratively. So can any number of other words - black, gay, Irish, man, woman, Tory, Socialist.
But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies.
In a phrase like "jew doctor", it is.
I'm not sure quite what you are having trouble understanding in the comment "Of course it can be used pejoratively. ... But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies."
The difference between using it as a noun and an adjective surely?
Jew art Jewish art Art by a Jew
Context is all of course but the first one could only be pejorative I think.
Thank heaven someone here understands the difference between a noun and an adjective. Perhaps not all is lost.
Obviously the word "Jew" is properly a noun. And yes, I'd agree its use as an adjective is normally pejorative (as well as ungrammatical). But to suggest it's pejorative when it's used as a noun is ridiculous.
It can be pejorative even when used as a noun
“Yes, he’s a Jew”
“My lawyer is a Jew”
“That painting is by a Jew”
“Yes, and she’s a Jew”
It is thanks to the many centuries of anti Semitism and it shouldn’t be the case, but it is a fact that even the simplest use of the noun “Jew” can sound grating and potentially offe
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
You might be better using 'Jewish' than 'Jew'. It's less pejorative. Imagine you are talking about a doctor or a banker and then put your 'Jew' in front of it and you might get an idea of how unpleasant it sounds.
The word "Jew" really isn't pejorative.
It can have about the same meaning as the rather abbreviated form of "Pakistani". Would you use that?
If you think the word "Jew" is pejorative per se, then you really need to think again.
People use it because it sounds ugly. It is most often used by Gentiles who are accusing opponents of being anti-semitic or as they would say Jew-haters. It is very deliberately done and it is very unattractive
This gets stranger and stranger. You're saying it's pejorative and it is most often used in an "unattractive" way by opponents of anti-semitism?
Is it really so difficult these days to accept words at face value, without such tortuous speculation about how they may have been used in the past by one side or the other?
If you want to know about anyone’s social circle, in relation to this ongoing political drama, do you actually say, “by the way, do you have any Jew friends?”
Because, if someone asked me that, in that way, I’d step away from them fairly quickly, and try not to talk to them, again. Certainly on that subject
Ditto “Jew lawyer”, “Jew banker”, “Jew doctor”, they all sound decidedly offensive, and ugly. So yes, it can definitely be pejorative, I don’t think this is arguable
If I had a friend who used a lawyer who wasn't Jewish, I'd step away from then pretty quickly.
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
You might be better using 'Jewish' than 'Jew'. It's less pejorative. Imagine you are talking about a doctor or a banker and then put your 'Jew' in front of it and you might get an idea of how unpleasant it sounds.
The word "Jew" really isn't pejorative.
It can be when used like that. On a related note, I'm half-convinced the term "jew hate" has only been used since I wondered on pb if the public understood the word antisemitism. No doubt mere coincidence but certainly it is not old enough to vote.
Of course it can be used pejoratively. So can any number of other words - black, gay, Irish, man, woman, Tory, Socialist.
But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies.
In a phrase like "jew doctor", it is.
I'm not sure quite what you are having trouble understanding in the comment "Of course it can be used pejoratively. ... But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies."
The difference between using it as a noun and an adjective surely?
Jew art Jewish art Art by a Jew
Context is all of course but the first one could only be pejorative I think.
Thank heaven someone here understands the difference between a noun and an adjective. Perhaps not all is lost.
Obviously the word "Jew" is properly a noun. And yes, I'd agree its use as an adjective is normally pejorative (as well as ungrammatical). But to suggest it's pejorative when it's used as a noun is ridiculous.
It can be pejorative even when used as a noun
“Yes, he’s a Jew”
“My lawyer is a Jew”
“That painting is by a Jew”
“Yes, and she’s a Jew”
It is thanks to the many centuries of anti Semitism and it logically shouldn’t be the case, but it is a fact that even the simplest use of the noun “Jew” can sound grating and potentially offensive
Perhaps we are all over sensitive but Them’s the times we live in
Compare with the similarly tortured way we try to find the right words for “black people” - that’s an even nastier verbal minefield, such that we have recently outlawed “black and minority ethnic people” as also being offensive. I forget what is the correct term of the moment
BIPOC
Always amusing to see it used in a British context given that the 'indigenous' here are different to those in the USA.
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
Updated for 17th November. Y-axis starts at zero:
Please add Sudanese, Yemeni, Syrian and Uigher deaths.
One of the other lesser reported conflicts is the Myanmar civil war, with around 42k dead since 2021, with some possibly significant recent gains by the anti-government forces.
Curious how Myanmar has become such a horrible place whereas neighbouring Thailand has developed pretty well.
Thailand was never colonized, and became a British protectorate instead. They thus preserved their monarchy (and the social structure that goes with it), which has been absolutely key to their comparative stability, meaning they have avoided the absolute hell visited on neighbouring Indochinese states, but the British empire saved them from external savagery and then the Americans took over
A long-lived stable monarchy is one of the best ways of avoiding political horror (not guaranteed, but it definitely helps)
In the Arab spring all the countries that had successful revolutions or descended into civil war were republics. All the monarchies survived relatively unscathed.
Yep. Morocco is the classic example. It is still poor - so should have been ripe for revolution, like Egypt, or Libya. Yet it remains comparatively stable - and the monarchy must play a role in that
They’ve even got more high speed trains than us
But we're a monarchy, how come we have fewer high speed trains than Morocco!
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
Updated for 17th November. Y-axis starts at zero:
Please add Sudanese, Yemeni, Syrian and Uigher deaths.
One of the other lesser reported conflicts is the Myanmar civil war, with around 42k dead since 2021, with some possibly significant recent gains by the anti-government forces.
Curious how Myanmar has become such a horrible place whereas neighbouring Thailand has developed pretty well.
Thailand was never colonized, and became a British protectorate instead. They thus preserved their monarchy (and the social structure that goes with it), which has been absolutely key to their comparative stability, meaning they have avoided the absolute hell visited on neighbouring Indochinese states, but the British empire saved them from external savagery and then the Americans took over
A long-lived stable monarchy is one of the best ways of avoiding political horror (not guaranteed, but it definitely helps)
In the Arab spring all the countries that had successful revolutions or descended into civil war were republics. All the monarchies survived relatively unscathed.
Yep. Morocco is the classic example. It is still poor - so should have been ripe for revolution, like Egypt, or Libya. Yet it remains comparatively stable - and the monarchy must play a role in that
They’ve even got more high speed trains than us
But we're a monarchy, how come we have fewer high speed trains than Morocco!
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
You might be better using 'Jewish' than 'Jew'. It's less pejorative. Imagine you are talking about a doctor or a banker and then put your 'Jew' in front of it and you might get an idea of how unpleasant it sounds.
The word "Jew" really isn't pejorative.
It can be when used like that. On a related note, I'm half-convinced the term "jew hate" has only been used since I wondered on pb if the public understood the word antisemitism. No doubt mere coincidence but certainly it is not old enough to vote.
Of course it can be used pejoratively. So can any number of other words - black, gay, Irish, man, woman, Tory, Socialist.
But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies.
In a phrase like "jew doctor", it is.
I'm not sure quite what you are having trouble understanding in the comment "Of course it can be used pejoratively. ... But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies."
The difference between using it as a noun and an adjective surely?
Jew art Jewish art Art by a Jew
Context is all of course but the first one could only be pejorative I think.
Thank heaven someone here understands the difference between a noun and an adjective. Perhaps not all is lost.
Obviously the word "Jew" is properly a noun. And yes, I'd agree its use as an adjective is normally pejorative (as well as ungrammatical). But to suggest it's pejorative when it's used as a noun is ridiculous.
It can be pejorative even when used as a noun
“Yes, he’s a Jew”
“My lawyer is a Jew”
“That painting is by a Jew”
“Yes, and she’s a Jew”
It is thanks to the many centuries of anti Semitism and it logically shouldn’t be the case, but it is a fact that even the simplest use of the noun “Jew” can sound grating and potentially offensive
Perhaps we are all over sensitive but Them’s the times we live in
Compare with the similarly tortured way we try to find the right words for “black people” - that’s an even nastier verbal minefield, such that we have recently outlawed “black and minority ethnic people” as also being offensive. I forget what is the correct term of the moment
BIPOC
Always amusing to see it used in a British context given that the 'indigenous' here are different to those in the USA.
And yes there are organisations which use BIPOC in this country:
Support for Black, Indigenous, People of Colour or anyone from an ethnically marginalised group
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
You might be better using 'Jewish' than 'Jew'. It's less pejorative. Imagine you are talking about a doctor or a banker and then put your 'Jew' in front of it and you might get an idea of how unpleasant it sounds.
The word "Jew" really isn't pejorative.
It can be when used like that. On a related note, I'm half-convinced the term "jew hate" has only been used since I wondered on pb if the public understood the word antisemitism. No doubt mere coincidence but certainly it is not old enough to vote.
Of course it can be used pejoratively. So can any number of other words - black, gay, Irish, man, woman, Tory, Socialist.
But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies.
In a phrase like "jew doctor", it is.
I'm not sure quite what you are having trouble understanding in the comment "Of course it can be used pejoratively. ... But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies."
The difference between using it as a noun and an adjective surely?
Jew art Jewish art Art by a Jew
Context is all of course but the first one could only be pejorative I think.
Thank heaven someone here understands the difference between a noun and an adjective. Perhaps not all is lost.
Obviously the word "Jew" is properly a noun. And yes, I'd agree its use as an adjective is normally pejorative (as well as ungrammatical). But to suggest it's pejorative when it's used as a noun is ridiculous.
It can be pejorative even when used as a noun
“Yes, he’s a Jew”
“My lawyer is a Jew”
“That painting is by a Jew”
“Yes, and she’s a Jew”
It is thanks to the many centuries of anti Semitism and it logically shouldn’t be the case, but it is a fact that even the simplest use of the noun “Jew” can sound grating and potentially offensive
Perhaps we are all over sensitive but Them’s the times we live in
Compare with the similarly tortured way we try to find the right words for “black people” - that’s an even nastier verbal minefield, such that we have recently outlawed “black and minority ethnic people” as also being offensive. I forget what is the correct term of the moment
BIPOC
Always amusing to see it used in a British context given that the 'indigenous' here are different to those in the USA.
Christ, yes
BIPOC
It’s so fucking CRINGE apart from anything else
“Oh, so you’re a BIPOC”
I think I’d punch someone who described me as a “BIPOC”. It sounds like a skin blemish
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
You might be better using 'Jewish' than 'Jew'. It's less pejorative. Imagine you are talking about a doctor or a banker and then put your 'Jew' in front of it and you might get an idea of how unpleasant it sounds.
The word "Jew" really isn't pejorative.
It can be when used like that. On a related note, I'm half-convinced the term "jew hate" has only been used since I wondered on pb if the public understood the word antisemitism. No doubt mere coincidence but certainly it is not old enough to vote.
Of course it can be used pejoratively. So can any number of other words - black, gay, Irish, man, woman, Tory, Socialist.
But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies.
In a phrase like "jew doctor", it is.
I'm not sure quite what you are having trouble understanding in the comment "Of course it can be used pejoratively. ... But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies."
The difference between using it as a noun and an adjective surely?
Jew art Jewish art Art by a Jew
Context is all of course but the first one could only be pejorative I think.
Thank heaven someone here understands the difference between a noun and an adjective. Perhaps not all is lost.
Obviously the word "Jew" is properly a noun. And yes, I'd agree its use as an adjective is normally pejorative (as well as ungrammatical). But to suggest it's pejorative when it's used as a noun is ridiculous.
It can be pejorative even when used as a noun
“Yes, he’s a Jew”
“My lawyer is a Jew”
“That painting is by a Jew”
“Yes, and she’s a Jew”
It is thanks to the many centuries of anti Semitism and it shouldn’t be the case, but it is a fact that even the simplest use of the noun “Jew” can sound grating and potentially offe
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
You might be better using 'Jewish' than 'Jew'. It's less pejorative. Imagine you are talking about a doctor or a banker and then put your 'Jew' in front of it and you might get an idea of how unpleasant it sounds.
The word "Jew" really isn't pejorative.
It can have about the same meaning as the rather abbreviated form of "Pakistani". Would you use that?
If you think the word "Jew" is pejorative per se, then you really need to think again.
People use it because it sounds ugly. It is most often used by Gentiles who are accusing opponents of being anti-semitic or as they would say Jew-haters. It is very deliberately done and it is very unattractive
This gets stranger and stranger. You're saying it's pejorative and it is most often used in an "unattractive" way by opponents of anti-semitism?
Is it really so difficult these days to accept words at face value, without such tortuous speculation about how they may have been used in the past by one side or the other?
If you want to know about anyone’s social circle, in relation to this ongoing political drama, do you actually say, “by the way, do you have any Jew friends?”
Because, if someone asked me that, in that way, I’d step away from them fairly quickly, and try not to talk to them, again. Certainly on that subject
Ditto “Jew lawyer”, “Jew banker”, “Jew doctor”, they all sound decidedly offensive, and ugly. So yes, it can definitely be pejorative, I don’t think this is arguable
If I had a friend who used a lawyer who wasn't Jewish, I'd step away from then pretty quickly.
Very good. lol
Jew can be used as a verb, and there it is definitely very perjorative.
So, Patricia Highsmith claimed that her first publisher "jewed" her out of what she was owed. Reading her biography, you learn that she was an utterly obnoxious person. Her obnoxious characters are just her own alter egos.
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
You might be better using 'Jewish' than 'Jew'. It's less pejorative. Imagine you are talking about a doctor or a banker and then put your 'Jew' in front of it and you might get an idea of how unpleasant it sounds.
The word "Jew" really isn't pejorative.
It can be when used like that. On a related note, I'm half-convinced the term "jew hate" has only been used since I wondered on pb if the public understood the word antisemitism. No doubt mere coincidence but certainly it is not old enough to vote.
Of course it can be used pejoratively. So can any number of other words - black, gay, Irish, man, woman, Tory, Socialist.
But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies.
In a phrase like "jew doctor", it is.
I'm not sure quite what you are having trouble understanding in the comment "Of course it can be used pejoratively. ... But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies."
The difference between using it as a noun and an adjective surely?
Jew art Jewish art Art by a Jew
Context is all of course but the first one could only be pejorative I think.
Thank heaven someone here understands the difference between a noun and an adjective. Perhaps not all is lost.
Obviously the word "Jew" is properly a noun. And yes, I'd agree its use as an adjective is normally pejorative (as well as ungrammatical). But to suggest it's pejorative when it's used as a noun is ridiculous.
'He's a real Jew' is not pejorative?
or how about 'He's a real Christian?'
Spot the difference?
To describe someone as "a Jew" is simply not pejorative in itself, and frankly I should think most Jews would rightly be insulted by the claim that it is.
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
You might be better using 'Jewish' than 'Jew'. It's less pejorative. Imagine you are talking about a doctor or a banker and then put your 'Jew' in front of it and you might get an idea of how unpleasant it sounds.
The word "Jew" really isn't pejorative.
It can be when used like that. On a related note, I'm half-convinced the term "jew hate" has only been used since I wondered on pb if the public understood the word antisemitism. No doubt mere coincidence but certainly it is not old enough to vote.
Of course it can be used pejoratively. So can any number of other words - black, gay, Irish, man, woman, Tory, Socialist.
But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies.
In a phrase like "jew doctor", it is.
I'm not sure quite what you are having trouble understanding in the comment "Of course it can be used pejoratively. ... But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies."
The difference between using it as a noun and an adjective surely?
Jew art Jewish art Art by a Jew
Context is all of course but the first one could only be pejorative I think.
Thank heaven someone here understands the difference between a noun and an adjective. Perhaps not all is lost.
Obviously the word "Jew" is properly a noun. And yes, I'd agree its use as an adjective is normally pejorative (as well as ungrammatical). But to suggest it's pejorative when it's used as a noun is ridiculous.
It can be pejorative even when used as a noun
“Yes, he’s a Jew”
“My lawyer is a Jew”
“That painting is by a Jew”
“Yes, and she’s a Jew”
It is thanks to the many centuries of anti Semitism and it logically shouldn’t be the case, but it is a fact that even the simplest use of the noun “Jew” can sound grating and potentially offensive
Perhaps we are all over sensitive but Them’s the times we live in
Compare with the similarly tortured way we try to find the right words for “black people” - that’s an even nastier verbal minefield, such that we have recently outlawed “black and minority ethnic people” as also being offensive. I forget what is the correct term of the moment
BIPOC
Always amusing to see it used in a British context given that the 'indigenous' here are different to those in the USA.
Christ, yes
BIPOC
It’s so fucking CRINGE apart from anything else
“Oh, so you’re a BIPOC”
I think I’d punch someone who described me as a “BIPOC”. It sounds like a skin blemish
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
You might be better using 'Jewish' than 'Jew'. It's less pejorative. Imagine you are talking about a doctor or a banker and then put your 'Jew' in front of it and you might get an idea of how unpleasant it sounds.
The word "Jew" really isn't pejorative.
It can be when used like that. On a related note, I'm half-convinced the term "jew hate" has only been used since I wondered on pb if the public understood the word antisemitism. No doubt mere coincidence but certainly it is not old enough to vote.
Of course it can be used pejoratively. So can any number of other words - black, gay, Irish, man, woman, Tory, Socialist.
But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies.
In a phrase like "jew doctor", it is.
I'm not sure quite what you are having trouble understanding in the comment "Of course it can be used pejoratively. ... But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies."
The difference between using it as a noun and an adjective surely?
Jew art Jewish art Art by a Jew
Context is all of course but the first one could only be pejorative I think.
Thank heaven someone here understands the difference between a noun and an adjective. Perhaps not all is lost.
Obviously the word "Jew" is properly a noun. And yes, I'd agree its use as an adjective is normally pejorative (as well as ungrammatical). But to suggest it's pejorative when it's used as a noun is ridiculous.
'He's a real Jew' is not pejorative?
or how about 'He's a real Christian?'
Spot the difference?
To describe someone as "a Jew" is simply not pejorative in itself, and frankly I should think most Jews would rightly be insulted by the claim that it is.
Why is the word “negro” deemed offensive? It was originally a scientific word that tried to be inoffensive, in its own terms, thereby avoiding pejoratives - but long histories of racism have given it terrible connotations. Use it professionally today and you’d be sacked
“Jew” isn’t in that league but the history of people spitting the word makes it unusually problematic
And this isn’t just an English language issue
“German dictionary changes ‘Jew’ definition after outcry over tie to Nazi use of word “Jude””
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
You might be better using 'Jewish' than 'Jew'. It's less pejorative. Imagine you are talking about a doctor or a banker and then put your 'Jew' in front of it and you might get an idea of how unpleasant it sounds.
The word "Jew" really isn't pejorative.
It can be when used like that. On a related note, I'm half-convinced the term "jew hate" has only been used since I wondered on pb if the public understood the word antisemitism. No doubt mere coincidence but certainly it is not old enough to vote.
Of course it can be used pejoratively. So can any number of other words - black, gay, Irish, man, woman, Tory, Socialist.
But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies.
In a phrase like "jew doctor", it is.
I'm not sure quite what you are having trouble understanding in the comment "Of course it can be used pejoratively. ... But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies."
The difference between using it as a noun and an adjective surely?
Jew art Jewish art Art by a Jew
Context is all of course but the first one could only be pejorative I think.
Thank heaven someone here understands the difference between a noun and an adjective. Perhaps not all is lost.
Obviously the word "Jew" is properly a noun. And yes, I'd agree its use as an adjective is normally pejorative (as well as ungrammatical). But to suggest it's pejorative when it's used as a noun is ridiculous.
It can be pejorative even when used as a noun
“Yes, he’s a Jew”
“My lawyer is a Jew”
“That painting is by a Jew”
“Yes, and she’s a Jew”
It is thanks to the many centuries of anti Semitism and it logically shouldn’t be the case, but it is a fact that even the simplest use of the noun “Jew” can sound grating and potentially offensive
Perhaps we are all over sensitive but Them’s the times we live in
Compare with the similarly tortured way we try to find the right words for “black people” - that’s an even nastier verbal minefield, such that we have recently outlawed “black and minority ethnic people” as also being offensive. I forget what is the correct term of the moment
BIPOC
Always amusing to see it used in a British context given that the 'indigenous' here are different to those in the USA.
And yes there are organisations which use BIPOC in this country:
Support for Black, Indigenous, People of Colour or anyone from an ethnically marginalised group
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
You might be better using 'Jewish' than 'Jew'. It's less pejorative. Imagine you are talking about a doctor or a banker and then put your 'Jew' in front of it and you might get an idea of how unpleasant it sounds.
The word "Jew" really isn't pejorative.
It can be when used like that. On a related note, I'm half-convinced the term "jew hate" has only been used since I wondered on pb if the public understood the word antisemitism. No doubt mere coincidence but certainly it is not old enough to vote.
Of course it can be used pejoratively. So can any number of other words - black, gay, Irish, man, woman, Tory, Socialist.
But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies.
In a phrase like "jew doctor", it is.
I'm not sure quite what you are having trouble understanding in the comment "Of course it can be used pejoratively. ... But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies."
The difference between using it as a noun and an adjective surely?
Jew art Jewish art Art by a Jew
Context is all of course but the first one could only be pejorative I think.
Thank heaven someone here understands the difference between a noun and an adjective. Perhaps not all is lost.
Obviously the word "Jew" is properly a noun. And yes, I'd agree its use as an adjective is normally pejorative (as well as ungrammatical). But to suggest it's pejorative when it's used as a noun is ridiculous.
It can be pejorative even when used as a noun
“Yes, he’s a Jew”
“My lawyer is a Jew”
“That painting is by a Jew”
“Yes, and she’s a Jew”
It is thanks to the many centuries of anti Semitism and it logically shouldn’t be the case, but it is a fact that even the simplest use of the noun “Jew” can sound grating and potentially offensive
Perhaps we are all over sensitive but Them’s the times we live in
Compare with the similarly tortured way we try to find the right words for “black people” - that’s an even nastier verbal minefield, such that we have recently outlawed “black and minority ethnic people” as also being offensive. I forget what is the correct term of the moment
BIPOC
Always amusing to see it used in a British context given that the 'indigenous' here are different to those in the USA.
And yes there are organisations which use BIPOC in this country:
Support for Black, Indigenous, People of Colour or anyone from an ethnically marginalised group
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
You might be better using 'Jewish' than 'Jew'. It's less pejorative. Imagine you are talking about a doctor or a banker and then put your 'Jew' in front of it and you might get an idea of how unpleasant it sounds.
The word "Jew" really isn't pejorative.
It can be when used like that. On a related note, I'm half-convinced the term "jew hate" has only been used since I wondered on pb if the public understood the word antisemitism. No doubt mere coincidence but certainly it is not old enough to vote.
Of course it can be used pejoratively. So can any number of other words - black, gay, Irish, man, woman, Tory, Socialist.
But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies.
In a phrase like "jew doctor", it is.
I'm not sure quite what you are having trouble understanding in the comment "Of course it can be used pejoratively. ... But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies."
The difference between using it as a noun and an adjective surely?
Jew art Jewish art Art by a Jew
Context is all of course but the first one could only be pejorative I think.
Thank heaven someone here understands the difference between a noun and an adjective. Perhaps not all is lost.
Obviously the word "Jew" is properly a noun. And yes, I'd agree its use as an adjective is normally pejorative (as well as ungrammatical). But to suggest it's pejorative when it's used as a noun is ridiculous.
It can be pejorative even when used as a noun
“Yes, he’s a Jew”
“My lawyer is a Jew”
“That painting is by a Jew”
“Yes, and she’s a Jew”
It is thanks to the many centuries of anti Semitism and it logically shouldn’t be the case, but it is a fact that even the simplest use of the noun “Jew” can sound grating and potentially offensive
Perhaps we are all over sensitive but Them’s the times we live in
Compare with the similarly tortured way we try to find the right words for “black people” - that’s an even nastier verbal minefield, such that we have recently outlawed “black and minority ethnic people” as also being offensive. I forget what is the correct term of the moment
BIPOC
Always amusing to see it used in a British context given that the 'indigenous' here are different to those in the USA.
And yes there are organisations which use BIPOC in this country:
Support for Black, Indigenous, People of Colour or anyone from an ethnically marginalised group
Presumably they want us to know how stupid they are. I would definitely claim indigenous status.
As stupid as the phrase "Global South", which always has me wondering what Australians, New Zealanders and penguins think about whatever fatuous generalisation the politically correct are making concerning poor countries.
Opportunity to remind people of the big event next Sunday in London. March Against Antisemitism. Don't think I have ever been on a march before and I haven't even been to London for about 10 years.
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
You might be better using 'Jewish' than 'Jew'. It's less pejorative. Imagine you are talking about a doctor or a banker and then put your 'Jew' in front of it and you might get an idea of how unpleasant it sounds.
The word "Jew" really isn't pejorative.
It can be when used like that. On a related note, I'm half-convinced the term "jew hate" has only been used since I wondered on pb if the public understood the word antisemitism. No doubt mere coincidence but certainly it is not old enough to vote.
Of course it can be used pejoratively. So can any number of other words - black, gay, Irish, man, woman, Tory, Socialist.
But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies.
In a phrase like "jew doctor", it is.
I'm not sure quite what you are having trouble understanding in the comment "Of course it can be used pejoratively. ... But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies."
The difference between using it as a noun and an adjective surely?
Jew art Jewish art Art by a Jew
Context is all of course but the first one could only be pejorative I think.
Thank heaven someone here understands the difference between a noun and an adjective. Perhaps not all is lost.
Obviously the word "Jew" is properly a noun. And yes, I'd agree its use as an adjective is normally pejorative (as well as ungrammatical). But to suggest it's pejorative when it's used as a noun is ridiculous.
It can be pejorative even when used as a noun
“Yes, he’s a Jew”
“My lawyer is a Jew”
“That painting is by a Jew”
“Yes, and she’s a Jew”
It is thanks to the many centuries of anti Semitism and it logically shouldn’t be the case, but it is a fact that even the simplest use of the noun “Jew” can sound grating and potentially offensive
Perhaps we are all over sensitive but Them’s the times we live in
Compare with the similarly tortured way we try to find the right words for “black people” - that’s an even nastier verbal minefield, such that we have recently outlawed “black and minority ethnic people” as also being offensive. I forget what is the correct term of the moment
BIPOC
Always amusing to see it used in a British context given that the 'indigenous' here are different to those in the USA.
And yes there are organisations which use BIPOC in this country:
Support for Black, Indigenous, People of Colour or anyone from an ethnically marginalised group
"Fill it with gas" just sounds like a cheesy Americanism.
Some that may or may not have gone the other way:
Has 'car' for automobile always been a thing in the States? I always thought 'auto' was the term but a bunch of Americans I met recently seemed to opt for car over auto.
Similarly tram rather than streetcar.
And when did fish and chips become a staple fast food in the US?
I have a moderately lucrative side-hustle "translating" American to English for Uber (produces a few hundred pounds a month for modest effort). It's not as trivial as it sounds, though, because as we're seeing in this thread language migrates, and sometimes I think I'm just old-fashioned (e.g. I dislike "promo" and routinely translate it as "promotion", but maybe that's just my taste?). They say "Order a ride with Uber", which on balance I think reads better in English as "trip" or "journey", and "Go with a fellow-rider" is definitely "Go with a fellow-passenger". But "Ride Package" may be a specific Uber offer, and must be "translated" unchanged. It's an interesting little puzzle for a quiet evening.
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
You might be better using 'Jewish' than 'Jew'. It's less pejorative. Imagine you are talking about a doctor or a banker and then put your 'Jew' in front of it and you might get an idea of how unpleasant it sounds.
The word "Jew" really isn't pejorative.
It can be when used like that. On a related note, I'm half-convinced the term "jew hate" has only been used since I wondered on pb if the public understood the word antisemitism. No doubt mere coincidence but certainly it is not old enough to vote.
Of course it can be used pejoratively. So can any number of other words - black, gay, Irish, man, woman, Tory, Socialist.
But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies.
In a phrase like "jew doctor", it is.
I'm not sure quite what you are having trouble understanding in the comment "Of course it can be used pejoratively. ... But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies."
The difference between using it as a noun and an adjective surely?
Jew art Jewish art Art by a Jew
Context is all of course but the first one could only be pejorative I think.
Thank heaven someone here understands the difference between a noun and an adjective. Perhaps not all is lost.
Obviously the word "Jew" is properly a noun. And yes, I'd agree its use as an adjective is normally pejorative (as well as ungrammatical). But to suggest it's pejorative when it's used as a noun is ridiculous.
It can be pejorative even when used as a noun
“Yes, he’s a Jew”
“My lawyer is a Jew”
“That painting is by a Jew”
“Yes, and she’s a Jew”
It is thanks to the many centuries of anti Semitism and it logically shouldn’t be the case, but it is a fact that even the simplest use of the noun “Jew” can sound grating and potentially offensive
Perhaps we are all over sensitive but Them’s the times we live in
Compare with the similarly tortured way we try to find the right words for “black people” - that’s an even nastier verbal minefield, such that we have recently outlawed “black and minority ethnic people” as also being offensive. I forget what is the correct term of the moment
BIPOC
Always amusing to see it used in a British context given that the 'indigenous' here are different to those in the USA.
And yes there are organisations which use BIPOC in this country:
Support for Black, Indigenous, People of Colour or anyone from an ethnically marginalised group
Look after yourself Mike. As I approach 80 I am noticing a tendency to feel a little dizzy if I move suddenly - could a fall be the next stage?
Tendency to fall, in the elderly, also seems to be associated with the number of medications taken. I don’t think, when I was professionally concerned with such things, that there was differentiation between prescribed and non-prescribed medications, although one would expect prescribed ones to be more likely.
I am on Ramipril, Doxazosin, Lercanidipine, and Atorvastatin. Had my annual check up recently and the nurse was very happy with my blood pressure and cholesterol levels.
I am similar but when I had my DVT a month ago, and emergency hospital admittance, it was discovered I had atrial fibrillation alongside other issues and AF is being treated as is my DVT with apixaban while I await the cardiologist appointment
Throughout, and in hospital, my blood pressure has been excellent and gave no indication of what has followed
A-fib is a risk factor for blood clots, I think ?
Yes hence apixaban (blood thinners) is one of the first lines of treatment
I am on apixaban for life after my little excitement with blood clots on my lungs. I think it slows you down a bit ( or I am just getting old).
David, can you still have a refreshment. My wife had the thinners when she had AF after the covid but luckily got off medication after is was restored to normal. I know with warfarin you used to have issue staking a drink.
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
You might be better using 'Jewish' than 'Jew'. It's less pejorative. Imagine you are talking about a doctor or a banker and then put your 'Jew' in front of it and you might get an idea of how unpleasant it sounds.
The word "Jew" really isn't pejorative.
It can be when used like that. On a related note, I'm half-convinced the term "jew hate" has only been used since I wondered on pb if the public understood the word antisemitism. No doubt mere coincidence but certainly it is not old enough to vote.
Of course it can be used pejoratively. So can any number of other words - black, gay, Irish, man, woman, Tory, Socialist.
But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies.
In a phrase like "jew doctor", it is.
I'm not sure quite what you are having trouble understanding in the comment "Of course it can be used pejoratively. ... But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies."
The difference between using it as a noun and an adjective surely?
Jew art Jewish art Art by a Jew
Context is all of course but the first one could only be pejorative I think.
Thank heaven someone here understands the difference between a noun and an adjective. Perhaps not all is lost.
Obviously the word "Jew" is properly a noun. And yes, I'd agree its use as an adjective is normally pejorative (as well as ungrammatical). But to suggest it's pejorative when it's used as a noun is ridiculous.
'He's a real Jew' is not pejorative?
or how about 'He's a real Christian?'
Spot the difference?
To describe someone as "a Jew" is simply not pejorative in itself, and frankly I should think most Jews would rightly be insulted by the claim that it is.
Why is the word “negro” deemed offensive? It was originally a scientific word that tried to be inoffensive, in its own terms, thereby avoiding pejoratives - but long histories of racism have given it terrible connotations. Use it professionally today and you’d be sacked
“Jew” isn’t in that league but the history of people spitting the word makes it unusually problematic
And this isn’t just an English language issue
“German dictionary changes ‘Jew’ definition after outcry over tie to Nazi use of word “Jude””
A better example is 'Black' which was once considered too abrupt for polite society so "Coloured" was introduced as a more decorous alternative. It still exists in the context of the NAACP, of course, but nowhere else.
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
You might be better using 'Jewish' than 'Jew'. It's less pejorative. Imagine you are talking about a doctor or a banker and then put your 'Jew' in front of it and you might get an idea of how unpleasant it sounds.
The word "Jew" really isn't pejorative.
It can be when used like that. On a related note, I'm half-convinced the term "jew hate" has only been used since I wondered on pb if the public understood the word antisemitism. No doubt mere coincidence but certainly it is not old enough to vote.
Of course it can be used pejoratively. So can any number of other words - black, gay, Irish, man, woman, Tory, Socialist.
But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies.
In a phrase like "jew doctor", it is.
I'm not sure quite what you are having trouble understanding in the comment "Of course it can be used pejoratively. ... But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies."
The difference between using it as a noun and an adjective surely?
Jew art Jewish art Art by a Jew
Context is all of course but the first one could only be pejorative I think.
Thank heaven someone here understands the difference between a noun and an adjective. Perhaps not all is lost.
Obviously the word "Jew" is properly a noun. And yes, I'd agree its use as an adjective is normally pejorative (as well as ungrammatical). But to suggest it's pejorative when it's used as a noun is ridiculous.
It can be pejorative even when used as a noun
“Yes, he’s a Jew”
“My lawyer is a Jew”
“That painting is by a Jew”
“Yes, and she’s a Jew”
It is thanks to the many centuries of anti Semitism and it logically shouldn’t be the case, but it is a fact that even the simplest use of the noun “Jew” can sound grating and potentially offensive
Perhaps we are all over sensitive but Them’s the times we live in
Compare with the similarly tortured way we try to find the right words for “black people” - that’s an even nastier verbal minefield, such that we have recently outlawed “black and minority ethnic people” as also being offensive. I forget what is the correct term of the moment
BIPOC
Always amusing to see it used in a British context given that the 'indigenous' here are different to those in the USA.
And yes there are organisations which use BIPOC in this country:
Support for Black, Indigenous, People of Colour or anyone from an ethnically marginalised group
As an aside, will people stop complaining about specific rapists, murders and other criminals.
Unless you criticize all criminals equally at all times, then your picking out of specific criminals just demonstrates your prejudices: clearly you don't really care about rape, murder, etc unless you are equally fervent in your denunciation of all acts and actors.
People who do DIY in their flat early in the morning late at night People who store things on their lawn (incipient hoarders) People who work on their motorbikes and go vroom vroom at random intervals People who have friends round and talk to them outside the flat for hours
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
You might be better using 'Jewish' than 'Jew'. It's less pejorative. Imagine you are talking about a doctor or a banker and then put your 'Jew' in front of it and you might get an idea of how unpleasant it sounds.
The word "Jew" really isn't pejorative.
It can be when used like that. On a related note, I'm half-convinced the term "jew hate" has only been used since I wondered on pb if the public understood the word antisemitism. No doubt mere coincidence but certainly it is not old enough to vote.
Of course it can be used pejoratively. So can any number of other words - black, gay, Irish, man, woman, Tory, Socialist.
But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies.
In a phrase like "jew doctor", it is.
I'm not sure quite what you are having trouble understanding in the comment "Of course it can be used pejoratively. ... But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies."
The difference between using it as a noun and an adjective surely?
Jew art Jewish art Art by a Jew
Context is all of course but the first one could only be pejorative I think.
Thank heaven someone here understands the difference between a noun and an adjective. Perhaps not all is lost.
Obviously the word "Jew" is properly a noun. And yes, I'd agree its use as an adjective is normally pejorative (as well as ungrammatical). But to suggest it's pejorative when it's used as a noun is ridiculous.
It can be pejorative even when used as a noun
“Yes, he’s a Jew”
“My lawyer is a Jew”
“That painting is by a Jew”
“Yes, and she’s a Jew”
It is thanks to the many centuries of anti Semitism and it logically shouldn’t be the case, but it is a fact that even the simplest use of the noun “Jew” can sound grating and potentially offensive
Perhaps we are all over sensitive but Them’s the times we live in
Compare with the similarly tortured way we try to find the right words for “black people” - that’s an even nastier verbal minefield, such that we have recently outlawed “black and minority ethnic people” as also being offensive. I forget what is the correct term of the moment
BIPOC
Always amusing to see it used in a British context given that the 'indigenous' here are different to those in the USA.
And yes there are organisations which use BIPOC in this country:
Support for Black, Indigenous, People of Colour or anyone from an ethnically marginalised group
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
You might be better using 'Jewish' than 'Jew'. It's less pejorative. Imagine you are talking about a doctor or a banker and then put your 'Jew' in front of it and you might get an idea of how unpleasant it sounds.
The word "Jew" really isn't pejorative.
It can be when used like that. On a related note, I'm half-convinced the term "jew hate" has only been used since I wondered on pb if the public understood the word antisemitism. No doubt mere coincidence but certainly it is not old enough to vote.
Of course it can be used pejoratively. So can any number of other words - black, gay, Irish, man, woman, Tory, Socialist.
But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies.
In a phrase like "jew doctor", it is.
I'm not sure quite what you are having trouble understanding in the comment "Of course it can be used pejoratively. ... But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies."
The difference between using it as a noun and an adjective surely?
Jew art Jewish art Art by a Jew
Context is all of course but the first one could only be pejorative I think.
Thank heaven someone here understands the difference between a noun and an adjective. Perhaps not all is lost.
Obviously the word "Jew" is properly a noun. And yes, I'd agree its use as an adjective is normally pejorative (as well as ungrammatical). But to suggest it's pejorative when it's used as a noun is ridiculous.
'He's a real Jew' is not pejorative?
or how about 'He's a real Christian?'
Spot the difference?
To describe someone as "a Jew" is simply not pejorative in itself, and frankly I should think most Jews would rightly be insulted by the claim that it is.
Why is the word “negro” deemed offensive? It was originally a scientific word that tried to be inoffensive, in its own terms, thereby avoiding pejoratives - but long histories of racism have given it terrible connotations. Use it professionally today and you’d be sacked
“Jew” isn’t in that league but the history of people spitting the word makes it unusually problematic
And this isn’t just an English language issue
“German dictionary changes ‘Jew’ definition after outcry over tie to Nazi use of word “Jude””
Mike - Hope you are all well, and soon. And that you are getting the exercise you need to protect yourself from future falls.
This may not be relevant, but years ago I read about a program to protect elderly ladies from fractures in falls. Typically, they would fall forward, try to catch themselves and break bones in their arms. The program had them lift weights to strengthen the bones in their arms and was able, as I recall to increase that strength by 25 percent in just two weeks.
(There was one problem: Many of the ladies didn't think it lady like to lift weights, so the planners had them lift soup cans instead.)
On a personal note: When COVID came along, I learned that, in many patients, it reduced the oxygen to their brains, making them stupider. So I bought a cheap oximeter on Amazon and use it every morning to check against that. (It also measures your pulse rate.) The one I have is not "medical grade", and so did not have to have to pass many expensive tests, but seems to work well, anyway.
Foxy gave advice and just about everyone on here bought them. Have been using last few weeks as both wife and I have had nasty bout of covid
Opportunity to remind people of the big event next Sunday in London. March Against Antisemitism. Don't think I have ever been on a march before and I haven't even been to London for about 10 years.
[putting feet up on the coffee table] Too dark, cold and wet today!
(but I think I said it was too cold last week... coupled with Weekend Engineering on the Tube!)
I'm late in the day but sorry to hear about the injury Mike. Hope you are on the mend and that you can be back herding this particular bunch of cats as soon as you feel inclined to
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
You might be better using 'Jewish' than 'Jew'. It's less pejorative. Imagine you are talking about a doctor or a banker and then put your 'Jew' in front of it and you might get an idea of how unpleasant it sounds.
The word "Jew" really isn't pejorative.
It can be when used like that. On a related note, I'm half-convinced the term "jew hate" has only been used since I wondered on pb if the public understood the word antisemitism. No doubt mere coincidence but certainly it is not old enough to vote.
Of course it can be used pejoratively. So can any number of other words - black, gay, Irish, man, woman, Tory, Socialist.
But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies.
In a phrase like "jew doctor", it is.
I'm not sure quite what you are having trouble understanding in the comment "Of course it can be used pejoratively. ... But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies."
The difference between using it as a noun and an adjective surely?
Jew art Jewish art Art by a Jew
Context is all of course but the first one could only be pejorative I think.
Thank heaven someone here understands the difference between a noun and an adjective. Perhaps not all is lost.
Obviously the word "Jew" is properly a noun. And yes, I'd agree its use as an adjective is normally pejorative (as well as ungrammatical). But to suggest it's pejorative when it's used as a noun is ridiculous.
It can be pejorative even when used as a noun
“Yes, he’s a Jew”
“My lawyer is a Jew”
“That painting is by a Jew”
“Yes, and she’s a Jew”
It is thanks to the many centuries of anti Semitism and it logically shouldn’t be the case, but it is a fact that even the simplest use of the noun “Jew” can sound grating and potentially offensive
Perhaps we are all over sensitive but Them’s the times we live in
Compare with the similarly tortured way we try to find the right words for “black people” - that’s an even nastier verbal minefield, such that we have recently outlawed “black and minority ethnic people” as also being offensive. I forget what is the correct term of the moment
BIPOC
Always amusing to see it used in a British context given that the 'indigenous' here are different to those in the USA.
And yes there are organisations which use BIPOC in this country:
Support for Black, Indigenous, People of Colour or anyone from an ethnically marginalised group
Pro Palestinian protest outside Starmer’s office, now
“OUTSIDE STARMER'S OFFICE
HAPPENING NOW
Antisemitism outside Starmer's office
"The djinn right? They've gone beyond Shaitan you know he's on the list because his wife's a Zionist you know his wife says, you know, Israel and he'll go and support Israel the little shit"”
Idle thought on IHT - if Hunt were to combine a reduction with elimination (for future bequests) of the 7-year exemption, I think most of us would feel that was a fair deal. The current arrangement is of course more or less voluntary for people who know how it works, but it's unfair to families of people with less know-how and the luncky who drop dead prematurely. If any gift in the most recent 25 years was counted as part of the legacy, that would orevent most avoidance, though only gradually since you couldn't do it retrospectively.
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
You might be better using 'Jewish' than 'Jew'. It's less pejorative. Imagine you are talking about a doctor or a banker and then put your 'Jew' in front of it and you might get an idea of how unpleasant it sounds.
The word "Jew" really isn't pejorative.
It can be when used like that. On a related note, I'm half-convinced the term "jew hate" has only been used since I wondered on pb if the public understood the word antisemitism. No doubt mere coincidence but certainly it is not old enough to vote.
Of course it can be used pejoratively. So can any number of other words - black, gay, Irish, man, woman, Tory, Socialist.
But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies.
In a phrase like "jew doctor", it is.
I'm not sure quite what you are having trouble understanding in the comment "Of course it can be used pejoratively. ... But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies."
The difference between using it as a noun and an adjective surely?
Jew art Jewish art Art by a Jew
Context is all of course but the first one could only be pejorative I think.
Thank heaven someone here understands the difference between a noun and an adjective. Perhaps not all is lost.
Obviously the word "Jew" is properly a noun. And yes, I'd agree its use as an adjective is normally pejorative (as well as ungrammatical). But to suggest it's pejorative when it's used as a noun is ridiculous.
It can be pejorative even when used as a noun
“Yes, he’s a Jew”
“My lawyer is a Jew”
“That painting is by a Jew”
“Yes, and she’s a Jew”
It is thanks to the many centuries of anti Semitism and it logically shouldn’t be the case, but it is a fact that even the simplest use of the noun “Jew” can sound grating and potentially offensive
Perhaps we are all over sensitive but Them’s the times we live in
Compare with the similarly tortured way we try to find the right words for “black people” - that’s an even nastier verbal minefield, such that we have recently outlawed “black and minority ethnic people” as also being offensive. I forget what is the correct term of the moment
BIPOC
Always amusing to see it used in a British context given that the 'indigenous' here are different to those in the USA.
And yes there are organisations which use BIPOC in this country:
Support for Black, Indigenous, People of Colour or anyone from an ethnically marginalised group
Maybe pool, sea, big pool, sea again, cocktail, pool, beer, pool, sea, tequila sunrise, sea, big pool, look at hummingbird, sea, pool, pool, pool, caiprinha, mojito, coma
The fifth consecutive "me, me, me" post from @Leon.
It's not always about you. Where's the "off topic" button? Oh it's gone.
Best wishes OGH.
It was an existential riff on the quiddity of life
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
You might be better using 'Jewish' than 'Jew'. It's less pejorative. Imagine you are talking about a doctor or a banker and then put your 'Jew' in front of it and you might get an idea of how unpleasant it sounds.
The word "Jew" really isn't pejorative.
It can have about the same meaning as the rather abbreviated form of "Pakistani". Would you use that?
If you think the word "Jew" is pejorative per se, then you really need to think again.
People use it because it sounds ugly. It is most often used by Gentiles who are accusing opponents of being anti-semitic or as they would say Jew-haters. It is very deliberately done and it is very unattractive
This gets stranger and stranger. You're saying it's pejorative and it is most often used in an "unattractive" way by opponents of anti-semitism?
Is it really so difficult these days to accept words at face value, without such tortuous speculation about how they may have been used in the past by one side or the other?
If you want to know about anyone’s social circle, in relation to this ongoing political drama, do you actually say, “by the way, do you have any Jew friends?”
Because, if someone asked me that, in that way, I’d step away from them fairly quickly, and try not to talk to them, again. Certainly on that subject
Ditto “Jew lawyer”, “Jew banker”, “Jew doctor”, they all sound decidedly offensive, and ugly. So yes, it can definitely be pejorative, I don’t think this is arguable
If I had a friend who used a lawyer who wasn't Jewish, I'd step away from then pretty quickly.
Pro Palestinian protest outside Starmer’s office, now
“OUTSIDE STARMER'S OFFICE
HAPPENING NOW
Antisemitism outside Starmer's office
"The djinn right? They've gone beyond Shaitan you know he's on the list because his wife's a Zionist you know his wife says, you know, Israel and he'll go and support Israel the little shit"”
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
You might be better using 'Jewish' than 'Jew'. It's less pejorative. Imagine you are talking about a doctor or a banker and then put your 'Jew' in front of it and you might get an idea of how unpleasant it sounds.
The word "Jew" really isn't pejorative.
It can be when used like that. On a related note, I'm half-convinced the term "jew hate" has only been used since I wondered on pb if the public understood the word antisemitism. No doubt mere coincidence but certainly it is not old enough to vote.
Of course it can be used pejoratively. So can any number of other words - black, gay, Irish, man, woman, Tory, Socialist.
But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies.
In a phrase like "jew doctor", it is.
I'm not sure quite what you are having trouble understanding in the comment "Of course it can be used pejoratively. ... But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies."
The difference between using it as a noun and an adjective surely?
Jew art Jewish art Art by a Jew
Context is all of course but the first one could only be pejorative I think.
Thank heaven someone here understands the difference between a noun and an adjective. Perhaps not all is lost.
Obviously the word "Jew" is properly a noun. And yes, I'd agree its use as an adjective is normally pejorative (as well as ungrammatical). But to suggest it's pejorative when it's used as a noun is ridiculous.
It can be pejorative even when used as a noun
“Yes, he’s a Jew”
“My lawyer is a Jew”
“That painting is by a Jew”
“Yes, and she’s a Jew”
It is thanks to the many centuries of anti Semitism and it logically shouldn’t be the case, but it is a fact that even the simplest use of the noun “Jew” can sound grating and potentially offensive
Perhaps we are all over sensitive but Them’s the times we live in
Compare with the similarly tortured way we try to find the right words for “black people” - that’s an even nastier verbal minefield, such that we have recently outlawed “black and minority ethnic people” as also being offensive. I forget what is the correct term of the moment
BIPOC
Always amusing to see it used in a British context given that the 'indigenous' here are different to those in the USA.
And yes there are organisations which use BIPOC in this country:
Support for Black, Indigenous, People of Colour or anyone from an ethnically marginalised group
Presumably they want us to know how stupid they are. I would definitely claim indigenous status.
Unless you're Welsh or Cornish, you're out of luck.
As a Cornishman I guess I’m a BIPOC but if you call me that I’ll clout you with a stale pasty
We'll address you by preferred term: a member of the Global South.
I hate the term The Global South (also often translated in German). I've heard news stories talking about Saharan Africa as being in The Global South. The globe has a very clear definition of south and most of africa is most definitely not in the south.
Idle thought on IHT - if Hunt were to combine a reduction with elimination (for future bequests) of the 7-year exemption, I think most of us would feel that was a fair deal. The current arrangement is of course more or less voluntary for people who know how it works, but it's unfair to families of people with less know-how and the luncky who drop dead prematurely. If any gift in the most recent 25 years was counted as part of the legacy, that would orevent most avoidance, though only gradually since you couldn't do it retrospectively.
When you say 'elimination,' do you mean to stop including such gifts in IHT, or to stop excluding them?
Because the latter would be very difficult indeed to enforce. Would I have had to trace the small money presents my father gave his nieces for Christmas when they were five to sort IHT out?
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
Updated for 17th November. Y-axis starts at zero:
Please add Sudanese, Yemeni, Syrian and Uigher deaths.
One of the other lesser reported conflicts is the Myanmar civil war, with around 42k dead since 2021, with some possibly significant recent gains by the anti-government forces.
Curious how Myanmar has become such a horrible place whereas neighbouring Thailand has developed pretty well.
Thailand was never colonized, and became a British protectorate instead. They thus preserved their monarchy (and the social structure that goes with it), which has been absolutely key to their comparative stability, meaning they have avoided the absolute hell visited on neighbouring Indochinese states, but the British empire saved them from external savagery and then the Americans took over
A long-lived stable monarchy is one of the best ways of avoiding political horror (not guaranteed, but it definitely helps)
In the Arab spring all the countries that had successful revolutions or descended into civil war were republics. All the monarchies survived relatively unscathed.
And plenty of republics seek to become de facto monarchies in search of stability.
Should stress the markets aren't fully up so I'm less than delighted at not having the groups and other things to consider as well.
Could someone tell Sky Sports not to spoil the qualifying by showing an advert that shows the top 3 on the grid during a repeat showing of the f***ing qualifying results that people are watching because they couldn't be arsed to get up early on a Saturday? AARRRRRGHHHHH!!!!!!!
A week is a long time in politics and also in policing.
There are no pro-Palestinian protestors.
They are anti-Israel protestors or for some anti-Jew protestors.
You might be better using 'Jewish' than 'Jew'. It's less pejorative. Imagine you are talking about a doctor or a banker and then put your 'Jew' in front of it and you might get an idea of how unpleasant it sounds.
The word "Jew" really isn't pejorative.
It can be when used like that. On a related note, I'm half-convinced the term "jew hate" has only been used since I wondered on pb if the public understood the word antisemitism. No doubt mere coincidence but certainly it is not old enough to vote.
Of course it can be used pejoratively. So can any number of other words - black, gay, Irish, man, woman, Tory, Socialist.
But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies.
In a phrase like "jew doctor", it is.
I'm not sure quite what you are having trouble understanding in the comment "Of course it can be used pejoratively. ... But if you are saying it is pejorative in itself, for heaven's sake think about what that implies."
The difference between using it as a noun and an adjective surely?
Jew art Jewish art Art by a Jew
Context is all of course but the first one could only be pejorative I think.
Thank heaven someone here understands the difference between a noun and an adjective. Perhaps not all is lost.
Obviously the word "Jew" is properly a noun. And yes, I'd agree its use as an adjective is normally pejorative (as well as ungrammatical). But to suggest it's pejorative when it's used as a noun is ridiculous.
It can be pejorative even when used as a noun
“Yes, he’s a Jew”
“My lawyer is a Jew”
“That painting is by a Jew”
“Yes, and she’s a Jew”
It is thanks to the many centuries of anti Semitism and it logically shouldn’t be the case, but it is a fact that even the simplest use of the noun “Jew” can sound grating and potentially offensive
Perhaps we are all over sensitive but Them’s the times we live in
Compare with the similarly tortured way we try to find the right words for “black people” - that’s an even nastier verbal minefield, such that we have recently outlawed “black and minority ethnic people” as also being offensive. I forget what is the correct term of the moment
BIPOC
Always amusing to see it used in a British context given that the 'indigenous' here are different to those in the USA.
Christ, yes
BIPOC
It’s so fucking CRINGE apart from anything else
“Oh, so you’re a BIPOC”
I think I’d punch someone who described me as a “BIPOC”. It sounds like a skin blemish
I don't deny language changes over time so new terms will necessarily arise naturally, but a lot of the time these things just seem like some 20 year old intern is trying to be relevant in coming up with something hip and new.
Idle thought on IHT - if Hunt were to combine a reduction with elimination (for future bequests) of the 7-year exemption, I think most of us would feel that was a fair deal. The current arrangement is of course more or less voluntary for people who know how it works, but it's unfair to families of people with less know-how and the luncky who drop dead prematurely. If any gift in the most recent 25 years was counted as part of the legacy, that would orevent most avoidance, though only gradually since you couldn't do it retrospectively.
Double the threshold and get rid of special treatment for spouses (or civil partners) rather than discriminate against partners who never formalised their relationship.
Comments
What's puzzling is why no one is suing. Surely Michael Gove wouldn't leave this stuff hanging? And he's just the tip of the iceberg. What Dominic Cummings is being accused of could affect his liberty. Though Nads obviously thinks this is just a money making novel I'm surprised her publisher don't take a more cautious view
People go on pro-Palestinian protests for many reasons. To insist there is a single cause, to treat everyone the same, is a mistake at best.
Returning to Americanisms, I’ve been using the word “gas” for “petrol” for years. It’s just easier. And sounds better and juicier
“Put some petrol in” sounds ridiculous to me, like you are seeking some obscure chemical for a complex mechanical issue
“Fill it with gas” is superior. As is “gas station”.
It’s the converse of “I am looking for an apartment”. “Flat” is way better
When I was in Vietnam 28 years ago, the elderly spoke French with the young speaking English. I would have thought that the French speakers have died off now.
In Cambodia the Khmer Rouge helped this process along.
I wonder if those who crowed over the absurd Colston verdict will be similarly impressed with the Jury's decision here. Extinction Rebellion activists not guilty of causing criminal damage although the evidence seems pretty overwhelming.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KS0S0aucOQ
Indeed you can see the difference in what I just said
I said
“I’ve got good Jewish friends who object to it”
Who on earth would say
“I’ve got good Jew friends who object to it”
You sound like Goebbels
I suppose you could use the convoluted
“I’ve got got good friends who are Jews who object to it” but that still sounds faintly creepy and, besides, takes an hour longer to say
Is it really so difficult these days to accept words at face value, without such tortuous speculation about how they may have been used in the past by one side or the other?
We give you a Jewish girl at five marks a day, Oskar. You should kiss us, not them. God forbid you ever get a real taste for Jewish skirt, there's no future in it. They don't have a future. That's not just good old fashioned Jew hating talk. It's policy now.
But there's one which dominates.
And not just at anti-Israel demonstrations - see Elon Musk as a further example.
So really the curiosity is how fortnight (lit. fourteen nights) has survived.
The modern calendar could do with a handy name for a week and the two weekends at each end of it - i.e. the nine days that constitute a school half-term, or your time away from work when, as a standard 5-day a week worker, you take a full 5 weekdays off as a holiday.
I (for one) say "died" about everyone who has died; it's been a deliberate practice for me since my 20s, as one of my personal barriers to our culture and practices about death turning to schmaltz rather than looking it in the eye. I read a book looking at how culture was changing / had changed back then, especially around attempts within Western culture to ignore illness / debilitation / death, and agreed with it.
One thing I've done for every relative since has deliberately been to view the body to say good-bye; I think it far more healthy explicitly to mark such an important event to punctuate my life. I wouldn't go so far as to take a photograph.
Another area where we use euphemisms around death and injury is on our roads, interestingly - we say "a car left the road and ..." or "a car lost control ...", or "accident", or "died" to replace "was killed". Quite a lot of people are trying to fix that one. It's hardly a surprise - that is where we most see death and injury in public life. On that one the USA would be different, as they kill many times more people with their guns and motor vehicles than we do in Europe, and have preserved a greater familiarity therefore.
Jew art
Jewish art
Art by a Jew
Context is all of course but the first one could only be pejorative I think.
Because, if someone asked me that, in that way, I’d step away from them fairly quickly, and try not to talk to them, again. Certainly on that subject
Ditto “Jew lawyer”, “Jew banker”, “Jew doctor”, they all sound decidedly offensive, and ugly. So yes, it can definitely be pejorative, I don’t think this is arguable
There's always a lot of luck involved in life.
It was luck that Britain was fertile ground for the industrial revolution and luck with the natural defence and trade advantages from the sea and luck that there's always been multiple European countries competing against each other rather than one hostile continental sized Empire.
Britain was able to make the best of that luck between 1600 and 1900.
Jew / Jewish separates the noun and the adjective.
Muslim does not; they are the same.
Is this a common thing? I'm not sure.
"Disabled people" (adjective) is fine. "The disabled" (noun) is I think generally not.
You're not a writer, @Leon - what do you think?
There are things that any and every country can be criticised for.
But when Israel is being singled out for criticism then its perfectly legitimate, perhaps even necessary given the history of antisemitism, to ask why that criticism is being made.
https://twitter.com/Protect_ServeUK/status/1725596461914628566
Obviously the word "Jew" is properly a noun. And yes, I'd agree its use as an adjective is normally pejorative (as well as ungrammatical). But to suggest it's pejorative when it's used as a noun is ridiculous.
How many of the people on these demonstrations are predominantly pro-Palestinian and how many predominantly anti-Israel ?
Anyone like to give their estimate ?
They’ve even got more high speed trains than us
Unless you criticize all criminals equally at all times, then your picking out of specific criminals just demonstrates your prejudices: clearly you don't really care about rape, murder, etc unless you are equally fervent in your denunciation of all acts and actors.
And trying to downplay it is all part of accepting it.
Complete with stories about the bodyguards they got - rough looking characters sent by people from the old neighbourhood who weren't especially welcome at the synagogue.
or how about 'He's a real Christian?'
Spot the difference?
Some that may or may not have gone the other way:
Has 'car' for automobile always been a thing in the States? I always thought 'auto' was the term but a bunch of Americans I met recently seemed to opt for car over auto.
Similarly tram rather than streetcar.
And when did fish and chips become a staple fast food in the US?
“Yes, he’s a Jew”
“My lawyer is a Jew”
“That painting is by a Jew”
“Yes, and she’s a Jew”
It is thanks to the many centuries of anti Semitism and it logically shouldn’t be the case, but it is a fact that even the simplest use of the noun “Jew” can sound grating and potentially offensive
Perhaps we are all over sensitive but Them’s the times we live in
Compare with the similarly tortured way we try to find the right words for “black people” - that’s an even nastier verbal minefield, such that we have recently outlawed “black and minority ethnic people” as also being offensive. I forget what is the correct term of the moment
“Yes, he’s a Jew”
“My lawyer is a Jew”
“That painting is by a Jew”
“Yes, and she’s a Jew”
It is thanks to the many centuries of anti Semitism and it shouldn’t be the case, but it is a fact that even the simplest use of the noun “Jew” can sound grating and potentially offe Very good. lol
Always amusing to see it used in a British context given that the 'indigenous' here are different to those in the USA.
And yes there are organisations which use BIPOC in this country:
Support for Black, Indigenous, People of Colour or anyone from an ethnically marginalised group
https://bwc.nhs.uk/bipoc-resources/
BIPOC
It’s so fucking CRINGE apart from anything else
“Oh, so you’re a BIPOC”
I think I’d punch someone who described me as a “BIPOC”. It sounds like a skin blemish
So, Patricia Highsmith claimed that her first publisher "jewed" her out of what she was owed. Reading her biography, you learn that she was an utterly obnoxious person. Her obnoxious characters are just her own alter egos.
“Jew” isn’t in that league but the history of people spitting the word makes it unusually problematic
And this isn’t just an English language issue
“German dictionary changes ‘Jew’ definition after outcry over tie to Nazi use of word “Jude””
https://www.timesofisrael.com/german-dictionary-changes-jew-definition-after-outcry-over-tie-to-nazi-use-of-word/
Tho I note there that it’s Jewish people taking your side of the argument. And Germans being “over sensitive”
As a gentile, I’m still wary of using the blunt word “Jew”
Opportunity to remind people of the big event next Sunday in London. March Against Antisemitism. Don't think I have ever been on a march before and I haven't even been to London for about 10 years.
I know with warfarin you used to have issue staking a drink.
(Although given how autocorrect hates Welsh spellings I can see why you might have passed...)
Betting PostF1: backed Sainz at 3.6 for a podium.
https://enormo-haddock.blogspot.com/2023/11/las-vegas-pre-race-2023.html
Should stress the markets aren't fully up so I'm less than delighted at not having the groups and other things to consider as well.
People who store things on their lawn (incipient hoarders)
People who work on their motorbikes and go vroom vroom at random intervals
People who have friends round and talk to them outside the flat for hours
Bastards. Hang them. Hang them twice
At least murderers do it quietly. 😃
If so you're out of luck, I finally signed the transfer on my father's house today.
Juden... Juden... Juden!
[shows star of David necklace to prisoners] I'm Juden, you know?
Juuuuuuuuuuuuden!
(but I think I said it was too cold last week... coupled with Weekend Engineering on the Tube!)
“OUTSIDE STARMER'S OFFICE
HAPPENING NOW
Antisemitism outside Starmer's office
"The djinn right? They've gone beyond Shaitan you know he's on the list because his wife's a Zionist you know his wife says, you know, Israel and he'll go and support Israel the little shit"”
https://x.com/hurryupharry/status/1725893036784152837?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
It’s tragic. But the pro Palestinian cause is utterly rancid with anti Semitism
https://youtu.be/ebajv8mjPTo?si=OyC9Jhw-FOSW-pcg
It’s very useful.
*I still use it on here, as does @rcs1000.
Because the latter would be very difficult indeed to enforce. Would I have had to trace the small money presents my father gave his nieces for Christmas when they were five to sort IHT out?
Negro
Jew
Spaniard
Chinaman (or “Chinese” as a noun).
An Italian still works, I think, as does Finn, Swede, Dane, and Russian. Pole is not appropriate. Scot also sounds patronising.
Sad times.
I prefer New Zealander. But I am v old fashioned in these matters.
An English book might say, “A man walked down the street, grey-haired and stooped, with a long beard. He wore a yarmulke…etc”.
A French book will say, “An old Jew walked down the street, grey-haired and stooped”.