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Deflating Rishi Sunak, again – politicalbetting.com

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  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,263
    edited November 2023

    Leon said:

    Deputy member of the Knesset

    “Burn Gaza now”

    When it comes to Israel I am probably more sympathetic to the Israeli cause than most PBers. But Jeez



    I do gravely fear this is the mood of the new Israel (as I’ve said before) and we don’t quite grasp it. They are now beyond “we go so far then America stops us”. They want Gaza obliterated so the threat is gone *forever*. They want total victory south west and north. They think another Holocaust is at hand and anything is justified

    Hence “never again is now”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kahanism
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_fascism
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otzma_Yehudit
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissim_Vaturi
    I’m well aware of some of the hideous characters around Bibi and Likud - racist Zionist supremacists. But this guy seems reasonably sane, by Likud standards, unless I’m missing something

    Which makes it worse. Even average Israeli pols are now coming out with apocalyptic language
  • How the flip have we ended up with a computer system that can't handle apostrophes?
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Deputy member of the Knesset

    “Burn Gaza now”

    When it comes to Israel I am probably more sympathetic to the Israeli cause than most PBers. But Jeez



    I do gravely fear this is the mood of the new Israel (as I’ve said before) and we don’t quite grasp it. They are now beyond “we go so far then America stops us”. They want Gaza obliterated so the threat is gone *forever*. They want total victory south west and north. They think another Holocaust is at hand and anything is justified

    Hence “never again is now”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kahanism
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_fascism
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otzma_Yehudit
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissim_Vaturi
    I’m well aware of some of the hideous characters around Bibi and Likud - racist Zionist supremacists. But this guy seems reasonably sane, by Likud standards, unless I’m missing something

    Which makes it worse. Even average Israeli pols are now coming out with apocalyptic language
    In 2023 Vaturi claimed that some parents who support "LGBTQ values" are giving their boys dolls to play with to encourage them to be gay.[9] He was condemned by members of his own family.[10]
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,263
    edited November 2023
    To be fair there are a lot of Israelis who are replying to that nutter Knesset speaker saying “shut up, this is insane, this sounds like genocide”

    So maybe all is not lost

    Example (via translate):

    “Do you want them to make one big human bonfire out of all 240 of our abductees, including the newborn baby, in the center of the strip? You piece of moron! Do you think they don't have internet and they don't mainly follow degenerates like you and Eliyahu here? So I have news for you - they are. You will be featured in all the newspapers in the Arab world until Sunday morning.”

    https://x.com/ellakone/status/1725501214211576010?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    Some things are just too divisive.

    ...Gray admitted that some people were now complaining that there shouldn’t be a full stop after the “St” in “St. Mary’s”. “I’m not getting involved in that - it’s too controversial.”..
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Deputy member of the Knesset

    “Burn Gaza now”

    When it comes to Israel I am probably more sympathetic to the Israeli cause than most PBers. But Jeez



    I do gravely fear this is the mood of the new Israel (as I’ve said before) and we don’t quite grasp it. They are now beyond “we go so far then America stops us”. They want Gaza obliterated so the threat is gone *forever*. They want total victory south west and north. They think another Holocaust is at hand and anything is justified

    Hence “never again is now”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kahanism
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_fascism
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otzma_Yehudit
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissim_Vaturi
    I’m well aware of some of the hideous characters around Bibi and Likud - racist Zionist supremacists. But this guy seems reasonably sane, by Likud standards, unless I’m missing something

    Which makes it worse. Even average Israeli pols are now coming out with apocalyptic language
    In 2023 Vaturi claimed that some parents who support "LGBTQ values" are giving their boys dolls to play with to encourage them to be gay.[9] He was condemned by members of his own family.[10]
    "this guy seems reasonably sane"

    OKKKKKKKAAAAY
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Deputy member of the Knesset

    “Burn Gaza now”

    When it comes to Israel I am probably more sympathetic to the Israeli cause than most PBers. But Jeez



    I do gravely fear this is the mood of the new Israel (as I’ve said before) and we don’t quite grasp it. They are now beyond “we go so far then America stops us”. They want Gaza obliterated so the threat is gone *forever*. They want total victory south west and north. They think another Holocaust is at hand and anything is justified

    Hence “never again is now”

    The problem is, of course, that I suspect this makes another holocaust more - not less - likely.
    Possibly. Probably. I dunno

    But as anti semitism sweeps the world Israelis are saying: fuck it who cares. Defend Israel. Make it unconquerable. Never again is now
    Where will the energy of the the "Free Palestine" activists in the West be directed if the end result is a one state solution called Isreal?
    I imagine they will all start protesting against Middle Eastern theocracies and Monarchies and massing outside the embassies of Saudi, Qatar, Iran etc demanding that those countries allow free speech, equal rights for women, gay rights. In fact I don’t imagine it, I’m certain because those guys just abhor oppression and as the current bother is definitely not about the Jews then surely they will do what is right. Definitely.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    Remember when Biden made a huge mistake joining them on the picket line ?

    Stellantis members vote to ratify UAW contract
    Workers at Stellantis were on track to approve the contract at a more comfortable margin than at General Motors.
    https://www.politico.com/news/2023/11/17/stellantis-vote-uaw-contract-00127784
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,818

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Deputy member of the Knesset

    “Burn Gaza now”

    When it comes to Israel I am probably more sympathetic to the Israeli cause than most PBers. But Jeez



    I do gravely fear this is the mood of the new Israel (as I’ve said before) and we don’t quite grasp it. They are now beyond “we go so far then America stops us”. They want Gaza obliterated so the threat is gone *forever*. They want total victory south west and north. They think another Holocaust is at hand and anything is justified

    Hence “never again is now”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kahanism
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_fascism
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otzma_Yehudit
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissim_Vaturi
    I’m well aware of some of the hideous characters around Bibi and Likud - racist Zionist supremacists. But this guy seems reasonably sane, by Likud standards, unless I’m missing something

    Which makes it worse. Even average Israeli pols are now coming out with apocalyptic language
    In 2023 Vaturi claimed that some parents who support "LGBTQ values" are giving their boys dolls to play with to encourage them to be gay.[9] He was condemned by members of his own family.[10]
    I used to play with dolls and it didn't do my gender assignment any harm that I have noticed.

    https://tankmuseumshop.org/products/action-man-action-soldier-deluxe-with-accessories?_pos=1&_sid=2cf7635c5&_ss=r
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Deputy member of the Knesset

    “Burn Gaza now”

    When it comes to Israel I am probably more sympathetic to the Israeli cause than most PBers. But Jeez



    I do gravely fear this is the mood of the new Israel (as I’ve said before) and we don’t quite grasp it. They are now beyond “we go so far then America stops us”. They want Gaza obliterated so the threat is gone *forever*. They want total victory south west and north. They think another Holocaust is at hand and anything is justified

    Hence “never again is now”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kahanism
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_fascism
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otzma_Yehudit
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissim_Vaturi
    I’m well aware of some of the hideous characters around Bibi and Likud - racist Zionist supremacists. But this guy seems reasonably sane, by Likud standards, unless I’m missing something

    Which makes it worse. Even average Israeli pols are now coming out with apocalyptic language
    In 2023 Vaturi claimed that some parents who support "LGBTQ values" are giving their boys dolls to play with to encourage them to be gay.[9] He was condemned by members of his own family.[10]
    Sounds a real prince.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,079
    edited November 2023
    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    The inflation rate was 11% when Truss left office last October, it is now just 4.6%, so it has more than halved since Sunak and Hunt replaced Truss and Kwarteng and that has cut cost of living as wages start to rise more than prices. It will also help with mortgages as rates start to fall.

    Sunak deserves credit for that even if he doesn't get it

    Thing is the equation needs to balance. Either:

    A. It wasn't the Tories' fault that inflation jumped up above 10%, and they don't get any credit for halving it, or

    B. It's their fault it jumped so high, and it's thanks to their actions it's halved.

    Rishi is trying to claim the rise inflation was down to uncontrollable global factors but the fall is all down to great domestic policy. Nobody's going to buy that. Everyone knows the reality is basically A.
    While that is all true, I think the reality of why Sunak doesnt get credit for his one in five is more simple.

    When people have decided, they are not easily persuaded otherwise.

    If Sunak made money fall from the sky, he would be damned for littering.
    Yes he's looking like what he is - a young inexperienced politician who has fluked to the top without having done the yards.
    The value of experience is hard to quantify. He did have experience as a senior minister which most lack after all.

    It used to be common to be an MP for 20 years before becoming PM. Due to having to wait for Tony to step down Brown is the last PM we had with that level of experience, as well as 10 years at the top. Blair, Major, Boris, and May, all served for over 10 years, almost 20 in May's case.

    Yet Cameron only 9 years, and whilst plenty would say he was a bad PM, he didn't seem out of place or depth in the role. Yet it was only 2 more years as an MP than Sunak had had, and without the experience of senior office that Sunak had - LoTO is a big and important job, but it's not like trying to manage the machinery of government or anything. And he was only 1 year younger.

    In a way the rapididy of rise which meant he had more experience of senior roles perhaps is part of the problem, in that he had barely any experience of hard years in opposition or backbenches. So perhaps it really is the case that experience of several full electoral cycles is more important than the importance of roles you hold or do not hold in those years.

    And of course our next Prime Minister will only have been an MP for 8-9 years himself.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    edited November 2023
    Pro_Rata said:

    kle4 said:



    Parliamentarian.

    Father.

    Leader.

    Revolutionary.
    If anyone wants to see something undeniably gross, I once blew a bogey that looked like this picture of JRM reclining and just had to take a photo of it.
    FPT: People thought better of inviting me across the threshold, probably correctly. Nevertheless, the JRM reclining googie can be witnessed for a limited time only as my avatar.

    I include the show previous comments with the original picture.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,137

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Deputy member of the Knesset

    “Burn Gaza now”

    When it comes to Israel I am probably more sympathetic to the Israeli cause than most PBers. But Jeez



    I do gravely fear this is the mood of the new Israel (as I’ve said before) and we don’t quite grasp it. They are now beyond “we go so far then America stops us”. They want Gaza obliterated so the threat is gone *forever*. They want total victory south west and north. They think another Holocaust is at hand and anything is justified

    Hence “never again is now”

    The problem is, of course, that I suspect this makes another holocaust more - not less - likely.
    Possibly. Probably. I dunno

    But as anti semitism sweeps the world Israelis are saying: fuck it who cares. Defend Israel. Make it unconquerable. Never again is now
    Where will the energy of the the "Free Palestine" activists in the West be directed if the end result is a one state solution called Isreal?
    I have no complaints about the treatment of Arabs in Israel. They have the vote, they are elected to the Knesset.

    I do, however, have complaints about the treatment of Arabs in the Occupied Territories. If the Occupied Territories were to become a part of Israel, and its denizens (whatever their ethnic and religious background) were to be treated as citizens of Israel with the same rights and obligations, I would be welcome it.

    Doing that, of course, would mean an Israeli Parliament with a smaller Jewish majority, which makes it very unattractive to those on the right in Israeli politics.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,818

    How the flip have we ended up with a computer system that can't handle apostrophes?
    Oh, it happens. I live on a street with an apostrophe.

    Most of the time thing are fine but some incompetent systems just ignore it, so St Wotsit's Terrace becomes St Wotsits Terrace. Occasionally I have had inexplicable trouble with internet orders - turned out to be the apostrophe. Seems not to be an issue now.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    edited November 2023
    Enough now . The IDF are going beyond what any reasonable person could say was even remotely proportionate .

    Starving people to death is despicable. The IDF are out of control .

    And insultingly are now going to allow just 2 fuel trucks in and make out as if this is an act of humanity.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,263
    edited November 2023

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Deputy member of the Knesset

    “Burn Gaza now”

    When it comes to Israel I am probably more sympathetic to the Israeli cause than most PBers. But Jeez



    I do gravely fear this is the mood of the new Israel (as I’ve said before) and we don’t quite grasp it. They are now beyond “we go so far then America stops us”. They want Gaza obliterated so the threat is gone *forever*. They want total victory south west and north. They think another Holocaust is at hand and anything is justified

    Hence “never again is now”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kahanism
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_fascism
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otzma_Yehudit
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissim_Vaturi
    I’m well aware of some of the hideous characters around Bibi and Likud - racist Zionist supremacists. But this guy seems reasonably sane, by Likud standards, unless I’m missing something

    Which makes it worse. Even average Israeli pols are now coming out with apocalyptic language
    In 2023 Vaturi claimed that some parents who support "LGBTQ values" are giving their boys dolls to play with to encourage them to be gay.[9] He was condemned by members of his own family.[10]
    "this guy seems reasonably sane"

    OKKKKKKKAAAAY
    I said by likud standards. Saying something crazy about dolls and gayness does not make him a Nazi, just a crank

    Bibi has actual self confessed Nazis in his ranks (tho it now seems this knesset speaker is a Nazi, too)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,079
    Nigelb said:

    Some things are just too divisive.

    ...Gray admitted that some people were now complaining that there shouldn’t be a full stop after the “St” in “St. Mary’s”. “I’m not getting involved in that - it’s too controversial.”..
    I hope they took as much time as when Cornwall Cornwall debated for 90 minutes on whether Land's End should have an apostrophe.

    Given they approved it unanimously I don't know how they discussed it for over an hour.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6162071/Lands-Ends-Lands-End-Official-spelling-confirmed-debate.html
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/lands-end-gets-an-apostrophe-as-cornwall-council-officially-ends-punctuation-debate-a3934466.html
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    edited November 2023
    There's a place near where I live that officially has an apostrophe in the name, but no-one uses it, including the road signs. The only place I've seen it was on the Boundary Commission's website.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,079

    Andy_JS said:

    Not a Boris Johnson fan myself, but the Tories would probably be on 30% if he was leader.

    I remain unconvinced of this. Its easy to forget the sound and fury around Partygate, and I have some sympathy for Johnson on this, as I don't think any of the events he was at were what the country thinks they were (most seemed to be pathetic Teams quizzes where people got a bit too close), to an awful lot of people took the covid restrictions seriously, and think that he didn't.
    I think it's possible they'd be doing better, certainly. Although that doesn't necessarily mean in retrospect it was wrong to rmove him.

    The issue was the MPs had lost all faith in his leadership and what it would cost them electorally, and that was probably correct and still would be. His own immediate successor said it was a mistake to remove him, so there was probably a hope they could recover the hit with losing some of the people he genuinely did reach better than others, since she was obviously still a fan, unlike Rishi.

    It has not worked out that way, and the Truss implosion, removal, and now Sunak's failure to have governance achievements to point toward to provoke a recovery in the polls, probably have left them lower than they would have been just by leaving Boris in place. He can use that as a legitimate grievance.

    But they acted in the first place because the problems under him just would not stop, and it's a bit unreaslitic to imagine a Boris premiership for an additional year, assuming no further negative issues arising from that fact.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Deputy member of the Knesset

    “Burn Gaza now”

    When it comes to Israel I am probably more sympathetic to the Israeli cause than most PBers. But Jeez



    I do gravely fear this is the mood of the new Israel (as I’ve said before) and we don’t quite grasp it. They are now beyond “we go so far then America stops us”. They want Gaza obliterated so the threat is gone *forever*. They want total victory south west and north. They think another Holocaust is at hand and anything is justified

    Hence “never again is now”

    The problem is, of course, that I suspect this makes another holocaust more - not less - likely.
    Possibly. Probably. I dunno

    But as anti semitism sweeps the world Israelis are saying: fuck it who cares. Defend Israel. Make it unconquerable. Never again is now
    Where will the energy of the the "Free Palestine" activists in the West be directed if the end result is a one state solution called Isreal?
    I have no complaints about the treatment of Arabs in Israel. They have the vote, they are elected to the Knesset.

    I do, however, have complaints about the treatment of Arabs in the Occupied Territories. If the Occupied Territories were to become a part of Israel, and its denizens (whatever their ethnic and religious background) were to be treated as citizens of Israel with the same rights and obligations, I would be welcome it.

    Doing that, of course, would mean an Israeli Parliament with a smaller Jewish majority, which makes it very unattractive to those on the right in Israeli politics.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_settler_violence
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,758
    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Some things are just too divisive.

    ...Gray admitted that some people were now complaining that there shouldn’t be a full stop after the “St” in “St. Mary’s”. “I’m not getting involved in that - it’s too controversial.”..
    I hope they took as much time as when Cornwall Cornwall debated for 90 minutes on whether Land's End should have an apostrophe.

    Given they approved it unanimously I don't know how they discussed it for over an hour.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6162071/Lands-Ends-Lands-End-Official-spelling-confirmed-debate.html
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/lands-end-gets-an-apostrophe-as-cornwall-council-officially-ends-punctuation-debate-a3934466.html
    No doubt some beneficial wrinkle.

    When I started in the City I couldn't quite understand why some evening meetings seemed to achieve nothing, but just meandered onwards. Then I found out about free taxis home if you were working after 8pm.

    People used to deliberately schedule meetings at lunchtime too - free sandwich deliveries if you had to work over lunch, from Birley's, and this was when Birley's sandwiches were really great but phenomenally expensive.

    (I've never had better sandwiches)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,079
    Andy_JS said:

    There's a place near where I live that officially has an apostrophe in the name, but no-one uses it, including the road signs. The only place I've seen it was on the Boundary Commission's website.
    Unfortunately what they say goes, at least for electoral purposes, so if they make a mistake you probably have to wait for a future review to try and fix it.
  • kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Some things are just too divisive.

    ...Gray admitted that some people were now complaining that there shouldn’t be a full stop after the “St” in “St. Mary’s”. “I’m not getting involved in that - it’s too controversial.”..
    I hope they took as much time as when Cornwall Cornwall debated for 90 minutes on whether Land's End should have an apostrophe.

    Given they approved it unanimously I don't know how they discussed it for over an hour.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6162071/Lands-Ends-Lands-End-Official-spelling-confirmed-debate.html
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/lands-end-gets-an-apostrophe-as-cornwall-council-officially-ends-punctuation-debate-a3934466.html
    King's Cross in London has an apostrophe:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_King's_Cross_railway_station

    But it's "Kings Cross" in Sydney:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kings_Cross_railway_station,_Sydney
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,818
    Omnium said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Some things are just too divisive.

    ...Gray admitted that some people were now complaining that there shouldn’t be a full stop after the “St” in “St. Mary’s”. “I’m not getting involved in that - it’s too controversial.”..
    I hope they took as much time as when Cornwall Cornwall debated for 90 minutes on whether Land's End should have an apostrophe.

    Given they approved it unanimously I don't know how they discussed it for over an hour.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6162071/Lands-Ends-Lands-End-Official-spelling-confirmed-debate.html
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/lands-end-gets-an-apostrophe-as-cornwall-council-officially-ends-punctuation-debate-a3934466.html
    No doubt some beneficial wrinkle.

    When I started in the City I couldn't quite understand why some evening meetings seemed to achieve nothing, but just meandered onwards. Then I found out about free taxis home if you were working after 8pm.

    People used to deliberately schedule meetings at lunchtime too - free sandwich deliveries if you had to work over lunch, from Birley's, and this was when Birley's sandwiches were really great but phenomenally expensive.

    (I've never had better sandwiches)
    But also Parkinson's Law of Triviality, which IIRC Malmesbury invoked the other day:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_triviality

    Though, as someone who lived with misspelt street names for years, which sometimes had real life problems with computers, I don't think it trivial at all.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,818

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Some things are just too divisive.

    ...Gray admitted that some people were now complaining that there shouldn’t be a full stop after the “St” in “St. Mary’s”. “I’m not getting involved in that - it’s too controversial.”..
    I hope they took as much time as when Cornwall Cornwall debated for 90 minutes on whether Land's End should have an apostrophe.

    Given they approved it unanimously I don't know how they discussed it for over an hour.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6162071/Lands-Ends-Lands-End-Official-spelling-confirmed-debate.html
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/lands-end-gets-an-apostrophe-as-cornwall-council-officially-ends-punctuation-debate-a3934466.html
    King's Cross in London has an apostrophe:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_King's_Cross_railway_station

    But it's "Kings Cross" in Sydney:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kings_Cross_railway_station,_Sydney
    Just checking when Mrs C comes home, so I had a try. LNER website spells it London Kings Cross and rejects King's.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    edited November 2023

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Some things are just too divisive.

    ...Gray admitted that some people were now complaining that there shouldn’t be a full stop after the “St” in “St. Mary’s”. “I’m not getting involved in that - it’s too controversial.”..
    I hope they took as much time as when Cornwall Cornwall debated for 90 minutes on whether Land's End should have an apostrophe.

    Given they approved it unanimously I don't know how they discussed it for over an hour.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6162071/Lands-Ends-Lands-End-Official-spelling-confirmed-debate.html
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/lands-end-gets-an-apostrophe-as-cornwall-council-officially-ends-punctuation-debate-a3934466.html
    King's Cross in London has an apostrophe:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_King's_Cross_railway_station

    But it's "Kings Cross" in Sydney:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kings_Cross_railway_station,_Sydney
    Checking the tickets for the train I’m currently on (which is the fast evening service direct from York) I’m heading towards Kings Cross (no apostrophe)

    However, when I leave the station I will be getting the Northern Line from King’s Cross to Archway
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,818
    edited November 2023
    On apparently trivial problems of local authorities - whales are rather larger.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X478zOUdHdU (action) (not recommended if you are having tripe and onions for dinner)

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/nov/17/how-do-you-get-rid-of-a-beached-whale-before-it-explodes (discussion)
  • eek said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Some things are just too divisive.

    ...Gray admitted that some people were now complaining that there shouldn’t be a full stop after the “St” in “St. Mary’s”. “I’m not getting involved in that - it’s too controversial.”..
    I hope they took as much time as when Cornwall Cornwall debated for 90 minutes on whether Land's End should have an apostrophe.

    Given they approved it unanimously I don't know how they discussed it for over an hour.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6162071/Lands-Ends-Lands-End-Official-spelling-confirmed-debate.html
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/lands-end-gets-an-apostrophe-as-cornwall-council-officially-ends-punctuation-debate-a3934466.html
    King's Cross in London has an apostrophe:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_King's_Cross_railway_station

    But it's "Kings Cross" in Sydney:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kings_Cross_railway_station,_Sydney
    Checking the tickets for the train I’m currently on (which is the fast evening service direct from York) I’m heading towards Kings Cross (no apostrophe)

    However, when I leave the station I will be getting the Northern Line from King’s Cross to Archway
    King's Cross St. Pancras to Archway :wink:
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    At least Israeli citizens murdered have the dignity of a proper funeral . Meanwhile Palestinians are just piled into pits .

    Hamas doesn’t care for Palestinians and Netanyahu doesn’t give a fig for Israelis . Both have had a symbiotic relationship and both are a cancer on the Middle East .
  • nico679 said:

    At least Israeli citizens murdered have the dignity of a proper funeral . Meanwhile Palestinians are just piled into pits .

    Hamas doesn’t care for Palestinians and Netanyahu doesn’t give a fig for Israelis . Both have had a symbiotic relationship and both are a cancer on the Middle East .

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,058
    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    The inflation rate was 11% when Truss left office last October, it is now just 4.6%, so it has more than halved since Sunak and Hunt replaced Truss and Kwarteng and that has cut cost of living as wages start to rise more than prices. It will also help with mortgages as rates start to fall.

    Sunak deserves credit for that even if he doesn't get it

    "Just 4.6%".
    The reason for the big drop this month is the energy cap fudge. Take out energy from the equation, and housing costs went up!
    Core inflation fell too. Food inflation, previously very high is now almost non existent. The gas cap may have exaggerated the top line reduction but the underlying trend is now clearly down.

    Does Sunak deserve any credit for this? Not really. The Bank seriously screwed up by failing to raise interest rates early enough but they are supposedly independent. I think some pressure was put on the Bank by the Treasury but by then even the Bank could see that they had got it seriously wrong. I am struggling to think of any government policy, other than the gas cap, that has materially affected inflation.
    Unless I'm missing something, I don't think you can say that about food inflation. Latest figures here says it's 10.1%!

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/articles/costoflivinginsights/food
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,058
    England make the Cricket World Cup Final after all! :)

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/67454285

    "Cricket World Cup final: Richard Illingworth & Richard Kettleborough chosen as on-field umpires"
  • Evening everyone.

    Have we discussed the 10 points penalty for Everton for one breach of the financial rules? Seems harsh.

    Considering Man City are being charged with 105 breaches of the rules, perhaps they should be docked something like 12 points a season for the next decade?
  • CatMan said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    The inflation rate was 11% when Truss left office last October, it is now just 4.6%, so it has more than halved since Sunak and Hunt replaced Truss and Kwarteng and that has cut cost of living as wages start to rise more than prices. It will also help with mortgages as rates start to fall.

    Sunak deserves credit for that even if he doesn't get it

    "Just 4.6%".
    The reason for the big drop this month is the energy cap fudge. Take out energy from the equation, and housing costs went up!
    Core inflation fell too. Food inflation, previously very high is now almost non existent. The gas cap may have exaggerated the top line reduction but the underlying trend is now clearly down.

    Does Sunak deserve any credit for this? Not really. The Bank seriously screwed up by failing to raise interest rates early enough but they are supposedly independent. I think some pressure was put on the Bank by the Treasury but by then even the Bank could see that they had got it seriously wrong. I am struggling to think of any government policy, other than the gas cap, that has materially affected inflation.
    Unless I'm missing something, I don't think you can say that about food inflation. Latest figures here says it's 10.1%!

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/articles/costoflivinginsights/food
    Its not almost non-existent, that is a huge exaggeration, but it is half of what it was.

    image
  • rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Deputy member of the Knesset

    “Burn Gaza now”

    When it comes to Israel I am probably more sympathetic to the Israeli cause than most PBers. But Jeez



    I do gravely fear this is the mood of the new Israel (as I’ve said before) and we don’t quite grasp it. They are now beyond “we go so far then America stops us”. They want Gaza obliterated so the threat is gone *forever*. They want total victory south west and north. They think another Holocaust is at hand and anything is justified

    Hence “never again is now”

    The problem is, of course, that I suspect this makes another holocaust more - not less - likely.
    A Holocaust of Palestinians to set the ball rolling..

    I know Naomi Klein, if not at Owen Jones polonium infused levels, is not PB’s favourite cup of tea but I think she had a point when she said there’s a mindset among some Israelis that they’re ‘owed’ one get away with a Holocaust free card.

  • nico679 said:

    Enough now . The IDF are going beyond what any reasonable person could say was even remotely proportionate .

    Starving people to death is despicable. The IDF are out of control .

    And insultingly are now going to allow just 2 fuel trucks in and make out as if this is an act of humanity.

    Why aren't Egypt letting more in? Israel isn't the only border with Gaza.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    edited November 2023

    nico679 said:

    Enough now . The IDF are going beyond what any reasonable person could say was even remotely proportionate .

    Starving people to death is despicable. The IDF are out of control .

    And insultingly are now going to allow just 2 fuel trucks in and make out as if this is an act of humanity.

    Why aren't Egypt letting more in? Israel isn't the only border with Gaza.
    A question my father asked is how is a Gaza supported? What possible economy can there be there? What do they produce?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Andy_JS said:

    Not a Boris Johnson fan myself, but the Tories would probably be on 30% if he was leader.

    I remain unconvinced of this. Its easy to forget the sound and fury around Partygate, and I have some sympathy for Johnson on this, as I don't think any of the events he was at were what the country thinks they were (most seemed to be pathetic Teams quizzes where people got a bit too close), to an awful lot of people took the covid restrictions seriously, and think that he didn't.
    It's not like the poor lad did anything as egregious as indulge in a lockdown beer and a curry now, is it?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,758

    nico679 said:

    Enough now . The IDF are going beyond what any reasonable person could say was even remotely proportionate .

    Starving people to death is despicable. The IDF are out of control .

    And insultingly are now going to allow just 2 fuel trucks in and make out as if this is an act of humanity.

    Why aren't Egypt letting more in? Israel isn't the only border with Gaza.
    In part because Egypt doesn't like Hamas. (I'm not sure even Iran would like Hamas if they tipped up on their border.)
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275

    nico679 said:

    Enough now . The IDF are going beyond what any reasonable person could say was even remotely proportionate .

    Starving people to death is despicable. The IDF are out of control .

    And insultingly are now going to allow just 2 fuel trucks in and make out as if this is an act of humanity.

    Why aren't Egypt letting more in? Israel isn't the only border with Gaza.
    Israel oversees what’s going in . It’s not just upto Egypt . The west now looks pathetic , bleating about humanitarian pauses and more aid , completely ignored by Israel .

    Israel does not need to starve people to death to continue its military operation .
  • nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    Enough now . The IDF are going beyond what any reasonable person could say was even remotely proportionate .

    Starving people to death is despicable. The IDF are out of control .

    And insultingly are now going to allow just 2 fuel trucks in and make out as if this is an act of humanity.

    Why aren't Egypt letting more in? Israel isn't the only border with Gaza.
    Israel oversees what’s going in . It’s not just upto Egypt . The west now looks pathetic , bleating about humanitarian pauses and more aid , completely ignored by Israel .

    Israel does not need to starve people to death to continue its military operation .
    Egypt could let more in if it chose to, but they're not Jews so you don't give a damn about them.

    There should be no fuel allowed in until Hamas are destroyed. Food, let Egypt let it in sure, but fuel absolutely not.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    Carnyx said:

    On apparently trivial problems of local authorities - whales are rather larger.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X478zOUdHdU (action) (not recommended if you are having tripe and onions for dinner)

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/nov/17/how-do-you-get-rid-of-a-beached-whale-before-it-explodes (discussion)

    This way is not recommended:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6CLumsir34
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,424
    I would have thought there would have been interest!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908
    ISU/Civiqs Iowa GOP caucus poll

    Trump 54%
    DeSantis 18%
    Haley 12%
    Ramaswamy 6%
    Christie 3%

    https://www.news.iastate.edu/news/2023/11/16/24caucus-poll3
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    A few notable points from Starmers interview on the News Agents .

    Asked if he would ever leave the ECHR . No .

    Asked about those who rebelled. They’re good people .

    Asked about Israel . They do not have unconditional support .
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275

    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    Enough now . The IDF are going beyond what any reasonable person could say was even remotely proportionate .

    Starving people to death is despicable. The IDF are out of control .

    And insultingly are now going to allow just 2 fuel trucks in and make out as if this is an act of humanity.

    Why aren't Egypt letting more in? Israel isn't the only border with Gaza.
    Israel oversees what’s going in . It’s not just upto Egypt . The west now looks pathetic , bleating about humanitarian pauses and more aid , completely ignored by Israel .

    Israel does not need to starve people to death to continue its military operation .
    Egypt could let more in if it chose to, but they're not Jews so you don't give a damn about them.

    There should be no fuel allowed in until Hamas are destroyed. Food, let Egypt let it in sure, but fuel absolutely not.
    How does the food get distributed without fuel . Starving anyone to death is despicable that includes doing that to Jews .
  • nico679 said:

    A few notable points from Starmers interview on the News Agents .

    Asked if he would ever leave the ECHR . No .

    Asked about those who rebelled. They’re good people .

    Asked about Israel . They do not have unconditional support .

    Notable because they should be the obvious answers?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908
    edited November 2023
    Heathener said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Not a Boris Johnson fan myself, but the Tories would probably be on 30% if he was leader.

    Agree with both halves of this.

    I disliked Boris because he was an out-and-out scumbag. But some people loved him and still do. He reached parts no other tory politician could, or still can.

    At least a 5% uptick if he was leader. Possibly 10%.

    Imho.
    At least 50 to 100 Tory MPs who would have kept their seats had Boris stayed PM will now lose them.

    However their choice to remove him and arguably a great self sacrifice for more 'competent' government under Rishi
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908
    edited November 2023

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Deputy member of the Knesset

    “Burn Gaza now”

    When it comes to Israel I am probably more sympathetic to the Israeli cause than most PBers. But Jeez



    I do gravely fear this is the mood of the new Israel (as I’ve said before) and we don’t quite grasp it. They are now beyond “we go so far then America stops us”. They want Gaza obliterated so the threat is gone *forever*. They want total victory south west and north. They think another Holocaust is at hand and anything is justified

    Hence “never again is now”

    The problem is, of course, that I suspect this makes another holocaust more - not less - likely.
    Possibly. Probably. I dunno

    But as anti semitism sweeps the world Israelis are saying: fuck it who cares. Defend Israel. Make it unconquerable. Never again is now
    Where will the energy of the the "Free Palestine" activists in the West be directed if the end result is a one state solution called Isreal?
    That would require Israel to take over the West Bank as well as Gaza, at which point most western governments, even the Biden administration would abandon Netanyahu, only US evangelicals and Trump would still be behind Israel and a narrow majority of global Jews. Opposition would go well beyond 'Free Palestine' activists
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984
    nico679 said:

    A few notable points from Starmers interview on the News Agents .

    Asked if he would ever leave the ECHR . No .

    Asked about those who rebelled. They’re good people .

    Asked about Israel . They do not have unconditional support .

    Sensible. He seems to have treated the rebellion as a necessary letting off of steam with no hard feelings. I suppose a shadow ministerial sacking doesn’t have the same financial impact as an actual ministerial sacking.
  • Evening everyone.

    Have we discussed the 10 points penalty for Everton for one breach of the financial rules? Seems harsh.

    Considering Man City are being charged with 105 breaches of the rules, perhaps they should be docked something like 12 points a season for the next decade?

    Yes, earlier:

    Rishi = Premier League
    Suella = Everton
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,818
    edited November 2023

    Carnyx said:

    On apparently trivial problems of local authorities - whales are rather larger.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X478zOUdHdU (action) (not recommended if you are having tripe and onions for dinner)

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/nov/17/how-do-you-get-rid-of-a-beached-whale-before-it-explodes (discussion)

    This way is not recommended:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6CLumsir34
    Indeed! Rather appropriate to the header, don't you think?

    How not to deal with inflation ...
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,758
    TimS said:

    nico679 said:

    A few notable points from Starmers interview on the News Agents .

    Asked if he would ever leave the ECHR . No .

    Asked about those who rebelled. They’re good people .

    Asked about Israel . They do not have unconditional support .

    Sensible. He seems to have treated the rebellion as a necessary letting off of steam with no hard feelings. I suppose a shadow ministerial sacking doesn’t have the same financial impact as an actual ministerial sacking.
    Has Starmer got a good list of likely future MPs which he can call upon quite swiftly in the parliament to fill junior ministerial positions?

    He's running on bare bones now.

    (So far as I can see there are a lot of quite left candidates, but I'm no good judge.)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248
    TimS said:

    nico679 said:

    A few notable points from Starmers interview on the News Agents .

    Asked if he would ever leave the ECHR . No .

    Asked about those who rebelled. They’re good people .

    Asked about Israel . They do not have unconditional support .

    Sensible. He seems to have treated the rebellion as a necessary letting off of steam with no hard feelings. I suppose a shadow ministerial sacking doesn’t have the same financial impact as an actual ministerial sacking.
    But.. But… I thought Sir Kid Starver was personally napalming hospitals in Gaza?

    As opposed to being sensible and decent.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,818
    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Not a Boris Johnson fan myself, but the Tories would probably be on 30% if he was leader.

    Agree with both halves of this.

    I disliked Boris because he was an out-and-out scumbag. But some people loved him and still do. He reached parts no other tory politician could, or still can.

    At least a 5% uptick if he was leader. Possibly 10%.

    Imho.
    At least 50 to 100 Tory MPs who would have kept their seats had Boris stayed PM will now lose them.

    However their choice to remove him and arguably a great self sacrifice for more 'competent' government under Rishi
    I see your quotation marks there.
  • Omnium said:

    TimS said:

    nico679 said:

    A few notable points from Starmers interview on the News Agents .

    Asked if he would ever leave the ECHR . No .

    Asked about those who rebelled. They’re good people .

    Asked about Israel . They do not have unconditional support .

    Sensible. He seems to have treated the rebellion as a necessary letting off of steam with no hard feelings. I suppose a shadow ministerial sacking doesn’t have the same financial impact as an actual ministerial sacking.
    Has Starmer got a good list of likely future MPs which he can call upon quite swiftly in the parliament to fill junior ministerial positions?

    He's running on bare bones now.

    (So far as I can see there are a lot of quite left candidates, but I'm no good judge.)
    Starmer can manage on a smaller number of shadow junior ministers for a while.

    The good ones will be be back when it's mutually convenient. (Jess Phillips can keep doing her good work without the job title for a bit.) And the nutters have gone for good.

    Not good for Labour, but pretty minor.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908

    Andy_JS said:

    Not a Boris Johnson fan myself, but the Tories would probably be on 30% if he was leader.

    How could he be leader still? Had he not resigned over Pincher, he would have been suspended by the result of Privileges Committee investigation, subject to a recall and lost his seat in the consequent by-election.

    For Johnson to be leader he would have to have not made reckless decisions regarding Pincher and not serially lied to the HoC. In other words for Johnson to still be leader he'd need to have not been Johnson.
    The Tories held Boris' Uxbridge seat in the by election this summer, their only parliamentary by election hold this year
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908
    edited November 2023
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Not a Boris Johnson fan myself, but the Tories would probably be on 30% if he was leader.

    Agree with both halves of this.

    I disliked Boris because he was an out-and-out scumbag. But some people loved him and still do. He reached parts no other tory politician could, or still can.

    At least a 5% uptick if he was leader. Possibly 10%.

    Imho.
    At least 50 to 100 Tory MPs who would have kept their seats had Boris stayed PM will now lose them.

    However their choice to remove him and arguably a great self sacrifice for more 'competent' government under Rishi
    I see your quotation marks there.
    He deserves credit for cutting inflation, as I said earlier but that surged fastest under Truss not Boris
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Deputy member of the Knesset

    “Burn Gaza now”

    When it comes to Israel I am probably more sympathetic to the Israeli cause than most PBers. But Jeez



    I do gravely fear this is the mood of the new Israel (as I’ve said before) and we don’t quite grasp it. They are now beyond “we go so far then America stops us”. They want Gaza obliterated so the threat is gone *forever*. They want total victory south west and north. They think another Holocaust is at hand and anything is justified

    Hence “never again is now”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kahanism
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_fascism
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otzma_Yehudit
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissim_Vaturi
    I’m well aware of some of the hideous characters around Bibi and Likud - racist Zionist supremacists. But this guy seems reasonably sane, by Likud standards, unless I’m missing something

    Which makes it worse. Even average Israeli pols are now coming out with apocalyptic language
    If you think about it, it's stupid and irrational to nuke Gaza - even if you're extreme.

    It'd irradiate most of Israel for decades.
  • Johnson weighs in on IHT cut and says he is favour. It is the right time because Gen Z need all the help they can get from baby boomers who have had it cushy.

    Interestingly, it reads like this is a done deal on IHT next week.



    When the Chancellor of the Exchequer rises next week to announce a long-awaited cut in inheritance tax, I can confidently predict that the Left will go more or less bananas.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12762305/BORIS-JOHNSON-right-cut-inheritance-tax.html
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,408
    edited November 2023
    Deleted
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275

    Johnson weighs in on IHT cut and says he is favour. It is the right time because Gen Z need all the help they can get from baby boomers who have had it cushy.

    Interestingly, it reads like this is a done deal on IHT next week.



    When the Chancellor of the Exchequer rises next week to announce a long-awaited cut in inheritance tax, I can confidently predict that the Left will go more or less bananas.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12762305/BORIS-JOHNSON-right-cut-inheritance-tax.html

    I think it’s a red herring and the IHT cut will come just before the next general election .
  • Johnson weighs in on IHT cut and says he is favour. It is the right time because Gen Z need all the help they can get from baby boomers who have had it cushy.

    Interestingly, it reads like this is a done deal on IHT next week.



    When the Chancellor of the Exchequer rises next week to announce a long-awaited cut in inheritance tax, I can confidently predict that the Left will go more or less bananas.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12762305/BORIS-JOHNSON-right-cut-inheritance-tax.html

    If so, it's pretty silly they've failed to keep it under wraps rather than risk 3-4 days of left-wing attacks to change the narrative and dilute the political impact of the announcement on the day.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,424

    Johnson weighs in on IHT cut and says he is favour. It is the right time because Gen Z need all the help they can get from baby boomers who have had it cushy.

    Interestingly, it reads like this is a done deal on IHT next week.



    When the Chancellor of the Exchequer rises next week to announce a long-awaited cut in inheritance tax, I can confidently predict that the Left will go more or less bananas.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12762305/BORIS-JOHNSON-right-cut-inheritance-tax.html

    Is Stanley not well? Or am I being unduly cynical?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,818

    Johnson weighs in on IHT cut and says he is favour. It is the right time because Gen Z need all the help they can get from baby boomers who have had it cushy.

    Interestingly, it reads like this is a done deal on IHT next week.



    When the Chancellor of the Exchequer rises next week to announce a long-awaited cut in inheritance tax, I can confidently predict that the Left will go more or less bananas.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12762305/BORIS-JOHNSON-right-cut-inheritance-tax.html

    Is Stanley not well? Or am I being unduly cynical?
    I was wondering only this morning which Tories' parents were feeling a bit Norwegian Blue, but didn't want to pursue that line of thought into the specifics.
  • nico679 said:

    Johnson weighs in on IHT cut and says he is favour. It is the right time because Gen Z need all the help they can get from baby boomers who have had it cushy.

    Interestingly, it reads like this is a done deal on IHT next week.



    When the Chancellor of the Exchequer rises next week to announce a long-awaited cut in inheritance tax, I can confidently predict that the Left will go more or less bananas.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12762305/BORIS-JOHNSON-right-cut-inheritance-tax.html

    I think it’s a red herring and the IHT cut will come just before the next general election .
    Keir can show clear water between LAB and CON by immediately committing to stop/reverse any IHT cut. But he probably won't.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,424
    Carnyx said:

    Johnson weighs in on IHT cut and says he is favour. It is the right time because Gen Z need all the help they can get from baby boomers who have had it cushy.

    Interestingly, it reads like this is a done deal on IHT next week.



    When the Chancellor of the Exchequer rises next week to announce a long-awaited cut in inheritance tax, I can confidently predict that the Left will go more or less bananas.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12762305/BORIS-JOHNSON-right-cut-inheritance-tax.html

    Is Stanley not well? Or am I being unduly cynical?
    I was wondering only this morning which Tories' parents were feeling a bit Norwegian Blue, but didn't want to pursue that line of thought into the specifics.
    Know what you mean. Felt a bit unkind posting what I did.

    But then Boris ……..
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Not a Boris Johnson fan myself, but the Tories would probably be on 30% if he was leader.

    How could he be leader still? Had he not resigned over Pincher, he would have been suspended by the result of Privileges Committee investigation, subject to a recall and lost his seat in the consequent by-election.

    For Johnson to be leader he would have to have not made reckless decisions regarding Pincher and not serially lied to the HoC. In other words for Johnson to still be leader he'd need to have not been Johnson.
    The Tories held Boris' Uxbridge seat in the by election this summer, their only parliamentary by election hold this year
    They would surely have lost if Johnson's scalp was there for the taking.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,372

    Johnson weighs in on IHT cut and says he is favour. It is the right time because Gen Z need all the help they can get from baby boomers who have had it cushy.

    Interestingly, it reads like this is a done deal on IHT next week.



    When the Chancellor of the Exchequer rises next week to announce a long-awaited cut in inheritance tax, I can confidently predict that the Left will go more or less bananas.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12762305/BORIS-JOHNSON-right-cut-inheritance-tax.html

    Is Stanley not well? Or am I being unduly cynical?
    I’m sure you are saying what others are thinking 😂
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,035
    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Not a Boris Johnson fan myself, but the Tories would probably be on 30% if he was leader.

    Agree with both halves of this.

    I disliked Boris because he was an out-and-out scumbag. But some people loved him and still do. He reached parts no other tory politician could, or still can.

    At least a 5% uptick if he was leader. Possibly 10%.

    Imho.
    At least 50 to 100 Tory MPs who would have kept their seats had Boris stayed PM will now lose them.

    However their choice to remove him and arguably a great self sacrifice for more 'competent' government under Rishi
    What if Rishi had won last summer? Would the Conservatives still be 20+ points behind?

    Obviously we'll never know, but my gut feeling is yes. The big cost of living shock would have happened anyway, and Rishi is incapable of inspiring anyone at all. Also after 13 years they've run out of other people to blame. I don't think there would have been a big one-off polling disaster, as under Truss, but a slow but steady dripping away of support leading to a similar place ot where we are now.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    "Labour MP Jo Stevens 'frightened' after graffiti sprayed on office following Gaza ceasefire vote

    Shadow Welsh secretary Jo Stevens was among Labour MPs who abstained on a vote calling for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza."

    https://news.sky.com/story/labour-mp-jo-stevens-frightened-after-graffiti-sprayed-on-office-following-gaza-ceasefire-vote-13010336
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275

    nico679 said:

    Johnson weighs in on IHT cut and says he is favour. It is the right time because Gen Z need all the help they can get from baby boomers who have had it cushy.

    Interestingly, it reads like this is a done deal on IHT next week.



    When the Chancellor of the Exchequer rises next week to announce a long-awaited cut in inheritance tax, I can confidently predict that the Left will go more or less bananas.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12762305/BORIS-JOHNSON-right-cut-inheritance-tax.html

    I think it’s a red herring and the IHT cut will come just before the next general election .
    Keir can show clear water between LAB and CON by immediately committing to stop/reverse any IHT cut. But he probably won't.
    He might have got away with that on other things but he won’t on any Tory IHT .

    Labour should immediately commit to reverse any cut no ifs or buts .
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653

    nico679 said:

    Johnson weighs in on IHT cut and says he is favour. It is the right time because Gen Z need all the help they can get from baby boomers who have had it cushy.

    Interestingly, it reads like this is a done deal on IHT next week.



    When the Chancellor of the Exchequer rises next week to announce a long-awaited cut in inheritance tax, I can confidently predict that the Left will go more or less bananas.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12762305/BORIS-JOHNSON-right-cut-inheritance-tax.html

    I think it’s a red herring and the IHT cut will come just before the next general election .
    Keir can show clear water between LAB and CON by immediately committing to stop/reverse any IHT cut. But he probably won't.
    He should abolish IHT, and make any gifts or legacies received >£10k in a year subject to income tax.
  • Anyone watching the England game?

    All about maintaining the good form and good qualifying record. Something like 3-0 perfectly adequate.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,079

    Anyone else watching Napoleon next weekend?

    The film seems to have really annoyed the French, as it's too "pro-British", which swung it for me.

    I intend to see it - Ridley Scott may be past his best but has done some great movies in his time, Joaquin Phoenix is a phenomenal actor, and Napoleon should be easy to make a fascinating movie out of. There's so much material in his life it should be impossible to make a boring biopic out of him, though no doubt someone could manage it, given most biopics are dull.

    The IMDB description does make it seem a little weird though - important as it was, is through that prism the best way to see the entire rise and fall?

    An epic that details the checkered rise and fall of French Emperor Napoleon Bonaparte and his relentless journey to power through the prism of his addictive, volatile relationship with his wife, Josephine.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926

    nico679 said:

    Johnson weighs in on IHT cut and says he is favour. It is the right time because Gen Z need all the help they can get from baby boomers who have had it cushy.

    Interestingly, it reads like this is a done deal on IHT next week.



    When the Chancellor of the Exchequer rises next week to announce a long-awaited cut in inheritance tax, I can confidently predict that the Left will go more or less bananas.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12762305/BORIS-JOHNSON-right-cut-inheritance-tax.html

    I think it’s a red herring and the IHT cut will come just before the next general election .
    Keir can show clear water between LAB and CON by immediately committing to stop/reverse any IHT cut. But he probably won't.
    He should abolish IHT, and make any gifts or legacies received >£10k in a year subject to income tax.
    A boon for Brits living abroad. ;)
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    edited November 2023

    Anyone watching the England game?

    All about maintaining the good form and good qualifying record. Something like 3-0 perfectly adequate.

    I can't find the enthusiasm. It's a dead rubber, not sure the game will fizz with excitement.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,079
    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    Johnson weighs in on IHT cut and says he is favour. It is the right time because Gen Z need all the help they can get from baby boomers who have had it cushy.

    Interestingly, it reads like this is a done deal on IHT next week.



    When the Chancellor of the Exchequer rises next week to announce a long-awaited cut in inheritance tax, I can confidently predict that the Left will go more or less bananas.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12762305/BORIS-JOHNSON-right-cut-inheritance-tax.html

    I think it’s a red herring and the IHT cut will come just before the next general election .
    Keir can show clear water between LAB and CON by immediately committing to stop/reverse any IHT cut. But he probably won't.
    He might have got away with that on other things but he won’t on any Tory IHT .

    Labour should immediately commit to reverse any cut no ifs or buts .
    He's taken a very cautious approach to date, very successfully, and he can generally get away with not commiting to reversing things even if he does intend to do so, but he really can afford to be more decisive every now and then.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    2024 wish
    Can an extremely wealthy Ukrainian buy around 10 of these.
    7 for sonar & 3 modified to carry a certain ATGM missile(firing station would run remotely)
    Just want to see the chaos to the Black Sea fleet and RU oil economy once ships start getting slapped. I'd assume a few other modifications, and they could move right on out the bosphorous without being seen as well.
    https://liquid-robotics.com/wave-glider/overview/

    https://twitter.com/IhateTrenches/status/1725582429392400407
  • Johnson weighs in on IHT cut and says he is favour. It is the right time because Gen Z need all the help they can get from baby boomers who have had it cushy.

    Interestingly, it reads like this is a done deal on IHT next week.



    When the Chancellor of the Exchequer rises next week to announce a long-awaited cut in inheritance tax, I can confidently predict that the Left will go more or less bananas.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12762305/BORIS-JOHNSON-right-cut-inheritance-tax.html

    If so, it's pretty silly they've failed to keep it under wraps rather than risk 3-4 days of left-wing attacks to change the narrative and dilute the political impact of the announcement on the day.
    Other possibility is that Boris doesn't have a clue what's going on. But he wants IHT to be cut, and is trying to force the Chancellor's hand by writing in the papers that it's a done deal. Boris's journalism has always been more about what he wants to happen / what he wants to say is happening than what actually is happening.

    But even if tax cuts are a good idea, and even if the Conservative right wants them... Cutting IHT while income tax is still rising by stealth is insane, isn't it?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908

    nico679 said:

    Johnson weighs in on IHT cut and says he is favour. It is the right time because Gen Z need all the help they can get from baby boomers who have had it cushy.

    Interestingly, it reads like this is a done deal on IHT next week.



    When the Chancellor of the Exchequer rises next week to announce a long-awaited cut in inheritance tax, I can confidently predict that the Left will go more or less bananas.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12762305/BORIS-JOHNSON-right-cut-inheritance-tax.html

    I think it’s a red herring and the IHT cut will come just before the next general election .
    Keir can show clear water between LAB and CON by immediately committing to stop/reverse any IHT cut. But he probably won't.
    He should abolish IHT, and make any gifts or legacies received >£10k in a year subject to income tax.
    That would hit even more Labour voters than reversing an IHT cut would
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Not a Boris Johnson fan myself, but the Tories would probably be on 30% if he was leader.

    How could he be leader still? Had he not resigned over Pincher, he would have been suspended by the result of Privileges Committee investigation, subject to a recall and lost his seat in the consequent by-election.

    For Johnson to be leader he would have to have not made reckless decisions regarding Pincher and not serially lied to the HoC. In other words for Johnson to still be leader he'd need to have not been Johnson.
    The Tories held Boris' Uxbridge seat in the by election this summer, their only parliamentary by election hold this year
    They would surely have lost if Johnson's scalp was there for the taking.
    I doubt it, an Ashcroft poll last June had Boris holding Uxbridge with 50% of the vote in any by election
    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2023/06/it-is-assumed-boris-would-lose-a-by-election-but-would-he/
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,058

    Anyone watching the England game?

    All about maintaining the good form and good qualifying record. Something like 3-0 perfectly adequate.

    I can't find the enthusiasm. It's a dead rubber, not sure the game will fizz with excitement.
    Still need to win to ensure top seeding
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908
    edited November 2023
    nico679 said:

    Johnson weighs in on IHT cut and says he is favour. It is the right time because Gen Z need all the help they can get from baby boomers who have had it cushy.

    Interestingly, it reads like this is a done deal on IHT next week.



    When the Chancellor of the Exchequer rises next week to announce a long-awaited cut in inheritance tax, I can confidently predict that the Left will go more or less bananas.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12762305/BORIS-JOHNSON-right-cut-inheritance-tax.html

    I think it’s a red herring and the IHT cut will come just before the next general election .
    If I was Sunak and Hunt I would cut the basic rate of income tax and raise the higher rate threshold now given inflation is under control.

    I would then have a manifesto commitment to either scrap IHT completely or raise the threshold to £2 million, which would get the Tory core vote out in the bluewall and if he did get a shock re election nobody could complain he had no mandate for it
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    edited November 2023

    nico679 said:

    Johnson weighs in on IHT cut and says he is favour. It is the right time because Gen Z need all the help they can get from baby boomers who have had it cushy.

    Interestingly, it reads like this is a done deal on IHT next week.



    When the Chancellor of the Exchequer rises next week to announce a long-awaited cut in inheritance tax, I can confidently predict that the Left will go more or less bananas.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12762305/BORIS-JOHNSON-right-cut-inheritance-tax.html

    I think it’s a red herring and the IHT cut will come just before the next general election .
    Keir can show clear water between LAB and CON by immediately committing to stop/reverse any IHT cut. But he probably won't.
    He should abolish IHT, and make any gifts or legacies received >£10k in a year subject to income tax.
    Labour will have to be careful how they respond . Certainly they need to try and get through to people that only 4% of estates qualify . Much more of the public think they’re going to be effected than the reality . They should stress the country can’t afford this with crumbling public services . A lot of people when polled dislike IHT even though they are likely to never have enough assets to leave to the children to be effected .
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    RobD said:

    nico679 said:

    Johnson weighs in on IHT cut and says he is favour. It is the right time because Gen Z need all the help they can get from baby boomers who have had it cushy.

    Interestingly, it reads like this is a done deal on IHT next week.



    When the Chancellor of the Exchequer rises next week to announce a long-awaited cut in inheritance tax, I can confidently predict that the Left will go more or less bananas.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12762305/BORIS-JOHNSON-right-cut-inheritance-tax.html

    I think it’s a red herring and the IHT cut will come just before the next general election .
    Keir can show clear water between LAB and CON by immediately committing to stop/reverse any IHT cut. But he probably won't.
    He should abolish IHT, and make any gifts or legacies received >£10k in a year subject to income tax.
    A boon for Brits living abroad. ;)
    Good point - unintended consequences.

    But no, that's covered by my UK FATCA Act. Are you a UK citizen? - then you must pay UK* income taxes for the privilege even if you live and work abroad. You get a vote after all.

    (*You can offset the local Income taxes you've paid though.)
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,070

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Some things are just too divisive.

    ...Gray admitted that some people were now complaining that there shouldn’t be a full stop after the “St” in “St. Mary’s”. “I’m not getting involved in that - it’s too controversial.”..
    I hope they took as much time as when Cornwall Cornwall debated for 90 minutes on whether Land's End should have an apostrophe.

    Given they approved it unanimously I don't know how they discussed it for over an hour.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6162071/Lands-Ends-Lands-End-Official-spelling-confirmed-debate.html
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/lands-end-gets-an-apostrophe-as-cornwall-council-officially-ends-punctuation-debate-a3934466.html
    King's Cross in London has an apostrophe:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_King's_Cross_railway_station

    But it's "Kings Cross" in Sydney:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kings_Cross_railway_station,_Sydney
    Earls Court
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    edited November 2023
    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    Johnson weighs in on IHT cut and says he is favour. It is the right time because Gen Z need all the help they can get from baby boomers who have had it cushy.

    Interestingly, it reads like this is a done deal on IHT next week.



    When the Chancellor of the Exchequer rises next week to announce a long-awaited cut in inheritance tax, I can confidently predict that the Left will go more or less bananas.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12762305/BORIS-JOHNSON-right-cut-inheritance-tax.html

    I think it’s a red herring and the IHT cut will come just before the next general election .
    Keir can show clear water between LAB and CON by immediately committing to stop/reverse any IHT cut. But he probably won't.
    He should abolish IHT, and make any gifts or legacies received >£10k in a year subject to income tax.
    Labour will have to be careful how they respond . Certainly they need to try and get through to people that only 4% of estates qualify . Much more of the public think they’re going to be effected than the reality . They should stress the country can’t afford this with crumbling public services . A lot of people when polled dislike IHT even though they are likely to never have enough assets to leave to the children to be effected .
    My plan's better. (Tbf I think Barty suggested it a while back.)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,079
    edited November 2023
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Not a Boris Johnson fan myself, but the Tories would probably be on 30% if he was leader.

    How could he be leader still? Had he not resigned over Pincher, he would have been suspended by the result of Privileges Committee investigation, subject to a recall and lost his seat in the consequent by-election.

    For Johnson to be leader he would have to have not made reckless decisions regarding Pincher and not serially lied to the HoC. In other words for Johnson to still be leader he'd need to have not been Johnson.
    The Tories held Boris' Uxbridge seat in the by election this summer, their only parliamentary by election hold this year
    They would surely have lost if Johnson's scalp was there for the taking.
    I doubt it, an Ashcroft poll last June had Boris holding Uxbridge with 50% of the vote in any by election
    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2023/06/it-is-assumed-boris-would-lose-a-by-election-but-would-he/
    And yet he obviously didn't think he would, or he wouldn't have quit, he'd have fought a by-election after a recall petition.

    Yeah yeah, he was sticking it to the system or whatever, but that makes no sense - what better way to stick it to the parliamentarians who sought to end him than standing and winning a by-election, showing his voters still backed him? How much greater a force in the party to show he was sticking around, and still had the backing of many?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908
    edited November 2023

    Andy_JS said:

    Not a Boris Johnson fan myself, but the Tories would probably be on 30% if he was leader.

    How could he be leader still? Had he not resigned over Pincher, he would have been suspended by the result of Privileges Committee investigation, subject to a recall and lost his seat in the consequent by-election.

    For Johnson to be leader he would have to have not made reckless decisions regarding Pincher and not serially lied to the HoC. In other words for Johnson to still be leader he'd need to have not been Johnson.
    Unless Boris had integrity and a work ethic (he doesn't and he never will) I don't think there was or is a path for the Tories to avoid their fate.

    Covid and Ukraine accelerated it but Boris would have been found out by one thing or another. It was clear he was very lazy and lackadaisical even before Covid hit in early 2020 with his long and leisurely post election holiday.
    Yes but the Conservatives removing Boris was like Labour pushing Blair out, it removed their most successful and charismatic general election winner for a generation.

    Even now 16 years since Blair ceased being PM and Labour leader and after 4 consecutive Labour general election defeats, Starmer is not really an election winner in the Blair mould. He will probably win due to the Tory government's unpopularity rather than any great enthusiasm for him and the Tories will likely have a similar problem, it will take years and likely over a decade to find a similar charismatic leader like Boris
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    edited November 2023
    viewcode said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Some things are just too divisive.

    ...Gray admitted that some people were now complaining that there shouldn’t be a full stop after the “St” in “St. Mary’s”. “I’m not getting involved in that - it’s too controversial.”..
    I hope they took as much time as when Cornwall Cornwall debated for 90 minutes on whether Land's End should have an apostrophe.

    Given they approved it unanimously I don't know how they discussed it for over an hour.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6162071/Lands-Ends-Lands-End-Official-spelling-confirmed-debate.html
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/lands-end-gets-an-apostrophe-as-cornwall-council-officially-ends-punctuation-debate-a3934466.html
    King's Cross in London has an apostrophe:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_King's_Cross_railway_station

    But it's "Kings Cross" in Sydney:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kings_Cross_railway_station,_Sydney
    Earls Court
    Barons Court and Earl’s Court.

    And then that’s Mornington Crescent.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    CatMan said:

    Anyone watching the England game?

    All about maintaining the good form and good qualifying record. Something like 3-0 perfectly adequate.

    I can't find the enthusiasm. It's a dead rubber, not sure the game will fizz with excitement.
    Still need to win to ensure top seeding
    Not really, +3pts and 13 goals over Ukraine, +6pts and 12 goals over Italy who have two to play. Nah.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984
    Johnson would probably be on similar polling to Rishi now. Perhaps a couple of points higher. He’d still be overseeing the tired arse-end of a 14 year reign of incompetence, and the air of sleaze would be hanging heavier on his premiership than it does on Sunak’s.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,070
    kle4 said:

    Anyone else watching Napoleon next weekend?

    The film seems to have really annoyed the French, as it's too "pro-British", which swung it for me.

    I intend to see it - Ridley Scott may be past his best but has done some great movies in his time, Joaquin Phoenix is a phenomenal actor, and Napoleon should be easy to make a fascinating movie out of. There's so much material in his life it should be impossible to make a boring biopic out of him, though no doubt someone could manage it, given most biopics are dull.

    The IMDB description does make it seem a little weird though - important as it was, is through that prism the best way to see the entire rise and fall?

    An epic that details the checkered rise and fall of French Emperor Napoleon Bonaparte and his relentless journey to power through the prism of his addictive, volatile relationship with his wife, Josephine.
    Ridley Scott is one film away from brilliance and one film away from shit. He has a lovely eye, a very good sense of place and scene, and absolutely no ability to distinguish a crap film from genius. Whatever he does is interesting, if not good. Apparently he's domesticised the drama, turning it into Marriage Story with added war. The film is longer than your life. I'm going to ignore it until it comes out on Netflix, then ignore it some more. The Marvels , for all its faults, is funnier and is less than two hours long. Just saying. 😃
  • viewcode said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Some things are just too divisive.

    ...Gray admitted that some people were now complaining that there shouldn’t be a full stop after the “St” in “St. Mary’s”. “I’m not getting involved in that - it’s too controversial.”..
    I hope they took as much time as when Cornwall Cornwall debated for 90 minutes on whether Land's End should have an apostrophe.

    Given they approved it unanimously I don't know how they discussed it for over an hour.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6162071/Lands-Ends-Lands-End-Official-spelling-confirmed-debate.html
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/lands-end-gets-an-apostrophe-as-cornwall-council-officially-ends-punctuation-debate-a3934466.html
    King's Cross in London has an apostrophe:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_King's_Cross_railway_station

    But it's "Kings Cross" in Sydney:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kings_Cross_railway_station,_Sydney
    Earls Court
    Barons Court and Earl’s Court.
    Exeter City play at St James Park.

    Newcastle United play at St James' Park.

    Meanwhile in London there is Saint James's Park.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    edited November 2023

    viewcode said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Some things are just too divisive.

    ...Gray admitted that some people were now complaining that there shouldn’t be a full stop after the “St” in “St. Mary’s”. “I’m not getting involved in that - it’s too controversial.”..
    I hope they took as much time as when Cornwall Cornwall debated for 90 minutes on whether Land's End should have an apostrophe.

    Given they approved it unanimously I don't know how they discussed it for over an hour.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6162071/Lands-Ends-Lands-End-Official-spelling-confirmed-debate.html
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/lands-end-gets-an-apostrophe-as-cornwall-council-officially-ends-punctuation-debate-a3934466.html
    King's Cross in London has an apostrophe:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_King's_Cross_railway_station

    But it's "Kings Cross" in Sydney:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kings_Cross_railway_station,_Sydney
    Earls Court
    Barons Court and Earl’s Court.
    Exeter City play at St James Park.

    Newcastle United play at St James' Park.

    Meanwhile in London there is Saint James's Park.
    That just goes to show how illiterate/ pedantic geordies are. Delete according to taste.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    HYUFD said:

    nico679 said:

    Johnson weighs in on IHT cut and says he is favour. It is the right time because Gen Z need all the help they can get from baby boomers who have had it cushy.

    Interestingly, it reads like this is a done deal on IHT next week.



    When the Chancellor of the Exchequer rises next week to announce a long-awaited cut in inheritance tax, I can confidently predict that the Left will go more or less bananas.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12762305/BORIS-JOHNSON-right-cut-inheritance-tax.html

    I think it’s a red herring and the IHT cut will come just before the next general election .
    Keir can show clear water between LAB and CON by immediately committing to stop/reverse any IHT cut. But he probably won't.
    He should abolish IHT, and make any gifts or legacies received >£10k in a year subject to income tax.
    That would hit even more Labour voters than reversing an IHT cut would
    Sure, it would hit me, and I may vote Labour (depending on tactical considerations). What seems to perplex you is that many people vote for what they think is best for the country, not necessarily for their own narrow self-interest.

    I appreciate that will be difficult for you to comprehend.
This discussion has been closed.