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Class warfare – politicalbetting.com

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  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792
    dixiedean said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    148grss said:

    148grss said:

    kyf_100 said:

    148grss said:

    I'm interested by the header name "Class Warfare" - is there a suggestion that somehow it is class warfare if the cabinet is more similar to the population as a whole in terms of their educational experience, but it isn't class warfare when the cabinet is made up from people whose educational experience was entirely separate from the population as a whole? That only people who are, potentially, more likely to advocate for the working class can be "class warriors" whereas people who are Old Etonians are somehow immune to the calling of class interest?

    Think you might be reading too much into a pithy play on words, there.
    I am just used to many people claiming anyone in favour of wealth redistribution towards the poor is "class war" but when we've had policies primarily implemented by the rich and privileged in favour of the rich and privileged is somehow not class war. Also, if there is a class war there must be two sides - and I know which side I'm on.
    The reality of Starmer’s plans is more kids will move from the private sector to the state sector which will bugger up kids from poorer background as scarce resources have to do even more while making the elite even more eliter*

    *Not a real word but it should be.
    I disagree. I believe that the elimination of private schools, or even the disincentive to use private schools, will make people who have money and influence (those more likely to use private schools) will have more of a stake in the state school system and therefore the state school system would likely improve. I also think that private schools shouldn't exist as it is clear that some (like Eton) are just pipelines towards power - not because the attendees get a specifically special education - but because the kind of people who went to Eton and go to Eton have access to power, and therefore the networks created there reinforce that. Whereas if that network was disrupted and distributed across the state school system, more power would be more accessible to more people.
    Nope. Eton will just open branches in the US, Singapore, Dubai, Moscow, and the kids can be educated closer to where their parents live. Okay, perhaps not Moscow any more. The rest will engage in extreme selection by house price within the UK.
    There are ‘branches’ of several British private schools in Bangkok. Don’t know how well the students turn out.
    Yep, same over here. They generally have good reputations and a record of UK and US university admissions.

    My wider point was that trying to legislate some of the best schools in the world out of existence, won’t simply lead to them closing and everyone going to state school. They’ll pop up somewhere else, and the global elites will send their kids there instead.

    The main losers will be the kids of the UK middle classes, who can no longer afford to send their kids to those schools.
    I don't care what the global elite get up to. I do care that we are ruled by people who've never been to a football match and prioritise the protection of grouse shooting when we are hit by a global pandemic. The Covid Inquiry is a devastating case study in what happens when a country is governed by a narrow elite whose life experiences are so far outside of the norm of the people they are governing.
    I'm pretty confident that British politicians will have attended football matches at a higher rate than the general population.
    Rugby for Boris. Cricket for Major and May. Starmer and Corbyn are both Arsenal fans. Cameron and Blair both claimed to be football supporters but probably weren't. Did Brown, Wilson or Heath say much on the subject? Ah, I've left out Liz Truss. Alec Douglas-Home was another cricket man.

    But you are right. It is a fair bet that every MP will have attended at least one of their local club's home games as a guest of the directors.
    Gordon Brown is a lifelong Raith Rovers fan.
    He didn't really shout about it.
    Probably because there wasn't much to shout about.
    And Wilson was apparently a keen Huddersfield Town fan.
    Although IIRC, according to Dominic Sandbrook, in early 1966 the fact that England were due to host the world cup that year came as something of a surprise to him - illustrating, again, IIRC, that hysteria about the world cup back in those days really wasn't what it is today.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,035

    Leon said:

    Neither of the two friendly agreeable girls that are making my breakfast understands that “English Breakfast” is a TYPE of tea. Indeed neither seems able to grasp the concept

    “Why’s it called breakfast then?”

    “Is it English?”

    The dimness of the young is becoming palpable, daily

    These are good questions. It's not English tea and it is not drunk only with breakfast. It's great that the young have such inquiring minds and don't simply accept the absurdities of the world they are presented with.
    Not to mention that a full English breakfast is a fry-up. Otoh, I do not drink tea but have heard of English Breakfast tea which you can buy in Sainsbury's. I've always kind of assumed that any non-typed tea was also English Breakfast tea but don't drink the stuff so it does not matter. My tea industry mole has fled the country, unfortunately.
    Who asks specifically for English Breakfast Tea, which is just generic basic tea that you will be given if you ask for a cup of tea? It's like asking for a hen's egg.
    It's a ghastly Americanism, taking over like so many ghastly Americanisms because of their overwhelming dominance, lack of logical thought and almost complete ignorance of foreign countries.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,188
    edited November 2023
    Looks like 40.1.1 in the cricket needs something like a 40.1.1.1 sub rule relating to equipment malfunction & player safety inserted. I'd normally say all's fair within the rules, but poor from Bangladesh to appeal that tbh.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812

    tlg86 said:

    A more interesting stat would be, percentage of the cabinet who send/sent their own kids (if they had kids) to private school.

    Good call. We should have a law that any MP of a governing party should have to send their kids to the worst performing school in their constituency. See how they like that fecker!
    You don't think the quality of people who stand as MPs is poor enough already?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792
    Fishing said:

    Leon said:

    Neither of the two friendly agreeable girls that are making my breakfast understands that “English Breakfast” is a TYPE of tea. Indeed neither seems able to grasp the concept

    “Why’s it called breakfast then?”

    “Is it English?”

    The dimness of the young is becoming palpable, daily

    These are good questions. It's not English tea and it is not drunk only with breakfast. It's great that the young have such inquiring minds and don't simply accept the absurdities of the world they are presented with.
    Not to mention that a full English breakfast is a fry-up. Otoh, I do not drink tea but have heard of English Breakfast tea which you can buy in Sainsbury's. I've always kind of assumed that any non-typed tea was also English Breakfast tea but don't drink the stuff so it does not matter. My tea industry mole has fled the country, unfortunately.
    Who asks specifically for English Breakfast Tea, which is just generic basic tea that you will be given if you ask for a cup of tea? It's like asking for a hen's egg.
    It's a ghastly Americanism, taking over like so many ghastly Americanisms because of their overwhelming dominance, lack of logical thought and almost complete ignorance of foreign countries.
    It's what you have to ask for when someone rather grandly offers you a choice of teas.
    Why someone would willingly choose Earl Grey 'tea' will remain forever beyond me.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918

    Other than SKS, how many of the shadow cabinet could be described as impressive? I'm not seeing many people making an impact?

    Doing a prediction on electoral calculus I was surprised that more significant Tories would not be losing their seats based on being reduced to sub 200 MPs. Tobias Ellwood, Penny Mordaunt, Johnny Mercer, Miriam Cates and Neil O'Brien were the main ones I noticed. Obviously some big names likes IDS, JRM, Lee Anderson but not many of those you'd expect to be rebuilding the party in opposition. On my rough calculation Jeremy Hunt was safe.

    Hunt would almost certainly lose his seat to the LDs given it is one of their top target seats and they will get Labour tactical votes even if their national poll rating is no better than 2019
  • kinabalu said:

    Our cup runneth over, KTHopkins and Tommeh are BACK!

    I don't want to leap to conclusions but both of these people have often seemed to be just a touch prejudiced against Muslims.
    tHEy aRE OnLy aSKiNg queStIOnS
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    Leon said:

    Our cup runneth over, KTHopkins and Tommeh are BACK!


    They’re planning a march to defend the cenotaph at the weekend. Should be fine
    Oh great. So we have the King, the PM, most of the Royal family, most of the Cabinet, tens of thousands of Kill the Jews Free Palestine protestors, and now Tommy and friends, all heading to the Cenotaph on Sunday.

    What can possibly go wrong there?
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,586
    Welsh public opinion towards Mark Drakeford as First Minister:

    Approve: 30% (-6)
    Disapprove: 44% (+9)

    via @RedfieldWilton
    Chgs. w/ May
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    Fishing said:

    Leon said:

    Neither of the two friendly agreeable girls that are making my breakfast understands that “English Breakfast” is a TYPE of tea. Indeed neither seems able to grasp the concept

    “Why’s it called breakfast then?”

    “Is it English?”

    The dimness of the young is becoming palpable, daily

    These are good questions. It's not English tea and it is not drunk only with breakfast. It's great that the young have such inquiring minds and don't simply accept the absurdities of the world they are presented with.
    Not to mention that a full English breakfast is a fry-up. Otoh, I do not drink tea but have heard of English Breakfast tea which you can buy in Sainsbury's. I've always kind of assumed that any non-typed tea was also English Breakfast tea but don't drink the stuff so it does not matter. My tea industry mole has fled the country, unfortunately.
    Who asks specifically for English Breakfast Tea, which is just generic basic tea that you will be given if you ask for a cup of tea? It's like asking for a hen's egg.
    It's a ghastly Americanism, taking over like so many ghastly Americanisms because of their overwhelming dominance, lack of logical thought and almost complete ignorance of foreign countries.
    Rubbish it is what you ask for if you want builders tea. Everyone knows, or should know what it is.

    It is sold as "English Breakfast Tea" and people should know what it means.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    Cookie said:

    Fishing said:

    Leon said:

    Neither of the two friendly agreeable girls that are making my breakfast understands that “English Breakfast” is a TYPE of tea. Indeed neither seems able to grasp the concept

    “Why’s it called breakfast then?”

    “Is it English?”

    The dimness of the young is becoming palpable, daily

    These are good questions. It's not English tea and it is not drunk only with breakfast. It's great that the young have such inquiring minds and don't simply accept the absurdities of the world they are presented with.
    Not to mention that a full English breakfast is a fry-up. Otoh, I do not drink tea but have heard of English Breakfast tea which you can buy in Sainsbury's. I've always kind of assumed that any non-typed tea was also English Breakfast tea but don't drink the stuff so it does not matter. My tea industry mole has fled the country, unfortunately.
    Who asks specifically for English Breakfast Tea, which is just generic basic tea that you will be given if you ask for a cup of tea? It's like asking for a hen's egg.
    It's a ghastly Americanism, taking over like so many ghastly Americanisms because of their overwhelming dominance, lack of logical thought and almost complete ignorance of foreign countries.
    It's what you have to ask for when someone rather grandly offers you a choice of teas.
    Why someone would willingly choose Earl Grey 'tea' will remain forever beyond me.
    I can see this thread easily morphing into a vituperative orgy of milk or no milk in Earl Grey tea.

    (Of course you don't put milk in Earl Grey what utterly bizarre behaviour is that.)
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    A more interesting stat would be, percentage of the cabinet who send/sent their own kids (if they had kids) to private school.

    Tony Blair went to private school. He and Cherie sent their kids to the London Oratory, a grant maintained Roman Catholic comprehensive rated Outstanding and one of the top 10 comprehensives or academies in the country.

    So hardly the average state school
    Yes, this is true. I can't might have this wrong, but at least that school takes kids from all across London, so it's not like buying a house in the catchment area of a good comprehensive.
  • carnforth said:

    Welsh public opinion towards Mark Drakeford as First Minister:

    Approve: 30% (-6)
    Disapprove: 44% (+9)

    via @RedfieldWilton
    Chgs. w/ May

    The Welsh public hate he is quitting, this explains the shift.
  • Cookie said:

    Fishing said:

    Leon said:

    Neither of the two friendly agreeable girls that are making my breakfast understands that “English Breakfast” is a TYPE of tea. Indeed neither seems able to grasp the concept

    “Why’s it called breakfast then?”

    “Is it English?”

    The dimness of the young is becoming palpable, daily

    These are good questions. It's not English tea and it is not drunk only with breakfast. It's great that the young have such inquiring minds and don't simply accept the absurdities of the world they are presented with.
    Not to mention that a full English breakfast is a fry-up. Otoh, I do not drink tea but have heard of English Breakfast tea which you can buy in Sainsbury's. I've always kind of assumed that any non-typed tea was also English Breakfast tea but don't drink the stuff so it does not matter. My tea industry mole has fled the country, unfortunately.
    Who asks specifically for English Breakfast Tea, which is just generic basic tea that you will be given if you ask for a cup of tea? It's like asking for a hen's egg.
    It's a ghastly Americanism, taking over like so many ghastly Americanisms because of their overwhelming dominance, lack of logical thought and almost complete ignorance of foreign countries.
    It's what you have to ask for when someone rather grandly offers you a choice of teas.
    Why someone would willingly choose Earl Grey 'tea' will remain forever beyond me.
    Earl Grey is absolute garbage tea.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    edited November 2023

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    A more interesting stat would be, percentage of the cabinet who send/sent their own kids (if they had kids) to private school.

    Good call. We should have a law that any MP of a governing party should have to send their kids to the worst performing school in their constituency. See how they like that fecker!
    Only if they oppose choice and private education and free schools, religious schools and grammar schools etc. Otherwise there is no
    hypocrisy if they choose the above for their kids
    But they come up with the policies, dole out the funds and generally dick about with our kids education. By never sending their sprogs to crap state schools, they never have to face the consequences. Typical!
    The more choice parents
    have the more likely crap, inadequate rated schools will
    eventually close as failing
    unprofitable businesses eventually go bust via lack of demand for their products and services
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    Cyclefree said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Our cup runneth over, KTHopkins and Tommeh are BACK!


    They’re planning a march to defend the cenotaph at the weekend. Should be fine
    One of the more worrying developments this week is the risk of genuine concerns about rising anti-semitism, particularly but not exclusively in immigrant cultures, being overshadowed by the tub-thumping anti-Muslamics and Furriners brigade, who are keen to jump on any cause to prove a point.

    There are some people whose support you can do without... the anti-semites in our society are doing quite a good job of outing themselves without the need for counter-protests.
    Quite. The Tommy Robinsons of this world are not pro-Jews. They are anti-Muslim and quite as repellent as the anti-semites.
    If the march goes ahead on 11/11 I can foresee plenty of EDL protests it is the perfect rallying cry.

    Does not bode well for inter-community cohesion whatever happens.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Looks like 40.1.1 in the cricket needs something like a 40.1.1.1 sub rule relating to equipment malfunction & player safety inserted. I'd normally say all's fair within the rules, but poor from Bangladesh to appeal that tbh.

    It’s like the Bairstow dismissal. In the laws but against the spirit of cricket.
  • twistedfirestopper3twistedfirestopper3 Posts: 2,421
    edited November 2023
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Our cup runneth over, KTHopkins and Tommeh are BACK!


    They’re planning a march to defend the cenotaph at the weekend. Should be fine
    Oh great. So we have the King, the PM, most of the Royal family, most of the Cabinet, tens of thousands of Kill the Jews Free Palestine protestors, and now Tommy and friends, all heading to the Cenotaph on Sunday.

    What can possibly go wrong there?
    We should just let them all get on with it. Throw a massive Met cordon around it, the coppers are allowed to behave naturally (beat anybody who tries to escape then throw them back in) and after 24 hours, see who survives. Chaz should probably be OK as he'll have security to help out but if enough pile in, the numbers might just win.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826
    Cyclefree said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Our cup runneth over, KTHopkins and Tommeh are BACK!


    They’re planning a march to defend the cenotaph at the weekend. Should be fine
    One of the more worrying developments this week is the risk of genuine concerns about rising anti-semitism, particularly but not exclusively in immigrant cultures, being overshadowed by the tub-thumping anti-Muslamics and Furriners brigade, who are keen to jump on any cause to prove a point.

    There are some people whose support you can do without... the anti-semites in our society are doing quite a good job of outing themselves without the need for counter-protests.
    Quite. The Tommy Robinsons of this world are not pro-Jews. They are anti-Muslim and quite as repellent as the anti-semites.
    As much as I wouldn't like to see the Cenotaph defaced, the main worry I have is actually the backlash it would create.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    tlg86 said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    A more interesting stat would be, percentage of the cabinet who send/sent their own kids (if they had kids) to private school.

    Tony Blair went to private school. He and Cherie sent their kids to the London Oratory, a grant maintained Roman Catholic comprehensive rated Outstanding and one of the top 10 comprehensives or academies in the country.

    So hardly the average state school
    Yes, this is true. I can't might have this wrong, but at least that school takes kids from all across London, so it's not like buying a house in the catchment area of a good comprehensive.
    As long as they attend Mass every week yes
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    A more interesting stat would be, percentage of the cabinet who send/sent their own kids (if they had kids) to private school.

    Good call. We should have a law that any MP of a governing party should have to send their kids to the worst performing school in their constituency. See how they like that fecker!
    Only if they oppose choice and private education and free schools, religious schools and grammar schools etc. Otherwise there is no
    hypocrisy if they choose the above for their kids
    But they come up with the policies, dole out the funds and generally dick about with our kids education. By never sending their sprogs to crap state schools, they never have to face the consequences. Typical!
    The more choice parents
    have the more likely crap, inadequate rated schools will
    eventually close as failing
    unprofitable businesses eventually go bust via lack of demand for their products and services
    In the real world.....
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    edited November 2023
    Hold on is there going to be anything (apart from the pro-Palestinian march, obvs) going on at the Cenotaph on Saturday? Sunday yes but Saturday? Not aware that anything official happens then.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    A more interesting stat would be, percentage of the cabinet who send/sent their own kids (if they had kids) to private school.

    Good call. We should have a law that any MP of a governing party should have to send their kids to the worst performing school in their constituency. See how they like that fecker!
    Only if they oppose choice and private education and free schools, religious schools and grammar schools etc. Otherwise there is no
    hypocrisy if they choose the above for their kids
    But they come up with the policies, dole out the funds and generally dick about with our kids education. By never sending their sprogs to crap state schools, they never have to face the consequences. Typical!
    The more choice parents
    have the more likely crap, inadequate rated schools will
    eventually close as failing
    unprofitable businesses eventually go bust via lack of demand for their products and services
    In the real world.....
    That is the real world, supply and demand
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,523

    Other than SKS, how many of the shadow cabinet could be described as impressive? I'm not seeing many people making an impact?

    Doing a prediction on electoral calculus I was surprised that more significant Tories would not be losing their seats based on being reduced to sub 200 MPs. Tobias Ellwood, Penny Mordaunt, Johnny Mercer, Miriam Cates and Neil O'Brien were the main ones I noticed. Obviously some big names likes IDS, JRM, Lee Anderson but not many of those you'd expect to be rebuilding the party in opposition. On my rough calculation Jeremy Hunt was safe.

    Reeves is doing well in conventional terms - endorsed both by the former BoE Governor and Kenneth Clarke in successive weeks. Ed Miliband retains the respect of green Labour voters who might otherwise question the party's seriousness on green issues. Wes Streeting appeals to centrists as solid and focused and is seen as a potential future leader, though he's not admired on the Left because of his vehemence about Corbyn. Steve Reed is generally seen as having made a good start on Environment and animal welfare. And personally I'm a fan of Stephen Kinnock, who is able to explain the complex immigration issue more lucidly than I've heard anyone else manage.

    I'm in Hunt's constituency (and count him as a friend despite our differences). He's got a serious challenge from the LibDems, and I wouldn't say he was safe.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Neither of the two friendly agreeable girls that are making my breakfast understands that “English Breakfast” is a TYPE of tea. Indeed neither seems able to grasp the concept

    “Why’s it called breakfast then?”

    “Is it English?”

    The dimness of the young is becoming palpable, daily

    These are good questions. It's not English tea and it is not drunk only with breakfast. It's great that the young have such inquiring minds and don't simply accept the absurdities of the world they are presented with.
    Not to mention that a full English breakfast is a fry-up. Otoh, I do not drink tea but have heard of English Breakfast tea which you can buy in Sainsbury's. I've always kind of assumed that any non-typed tea was also English Breakfast tea but don't drink the stuff so it does not matter. My tea industry mole has fled the country, unfortunately.
    Who asks specifically for English Breakfast Tea, which is just generic basic tea that you will be given if you ask for a cup of tea? It's like asking for a hen's egg.
    Just back from a trip to Budapest and Vienna. Asking for "tea" produced any number of weird concoctions, but "black tea" (aka English Breakfast tea) was difficult to find, and if it arrived it was in a glass made with luke-warm water. The idea that it might be accompanied by a few drops of milk was baffling to the locals.
    With a few honourable exceptions -Sri Lankans not only make a great cuppa but actually grow the bloody stuff - Jonny Foreigner tends to struggle with the basics of a proper cup of tea. It's one of the reasons I rarely leave the country.
    Also, you’re scared of driving on the right
    Of course I am! You think that people who can't make a decent cup of tea can be trusted to manoeuvre a motor vehicle with due care and attention, especially on such an unnatural side of the carriageway? Your devil may care attitude astonishes me - you need to spend less time hating on tabbies and asking for specific types of tea and focus on the real dangers out there.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,188
    edited November 2023

    Pulpstar said:

    Looks like 40.1.1 in the cricket needs something like a 40.1.1.1 sub rule relating to equipment malfunction & player safety inserted. I'd normally say all's fair within the rules, but poor from Bangladesh to appeal that tbh.

    It’s like the Bairstow dismissal. In the laws but against the spirit of cricket.
    This one isn't really comparable to Bairstow's. That was dozy play by Bairstow and sharp by Carey. I've not watched the dismissal but (I think ?) the strap broke while he was walking out I think ? I know old man Matthews likes to take his time, but this is about player safety.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    A more interesting stat would be, percentage of the cabinet who send/sent their own kids (if they had kids) to private school.

    Good call. We should have a law that any MP of a governing party should have to send their kids to the worst performing school in their constituency. See how they like that fecker!
    Only if they oppose choice and private education and free schools, religious schools and grammar schools etc. Otherwise there is no
    hypocrisy if they choose the above for their kids
    But they come up with the policies, dole out the funds and generally dick about with our kids education. By never sending their sprogs to crap state schools, they never have to face the consequences. Typical!
    The more choice parents
    have the more likely crap, inadequate rated schools will
    eventually close as failing
    unprofitable businesses eventually go bust via lack of demand for their products and services
    In the real world.....
    That is the real world, supply and demand
    How many under performing schools have closed?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Looks like 40.1.1 in the cricket needs something like a 40.1.1.1 sub rule relating to equipment malfunction & player safety inserted. I'd normally say all's fair within the rules, but poor from Bangladesh to appeal that tbh.

    It’s like the Bairstow dismissal. In the laws but against the spirit of cricket.
    This one isn't really comparable to Bairstow's. That was dozy play by Bairstow and sharp by Carey. I've not watched the dismissal but (I think ?) the strap broke while he was walking out I think ? This is about player safety.
    If that was the case, then surely it's a matter of safety?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812

    Other than SKS, how many of the shadow cabinet could be described as impressive? I'm not seeing many people making an impact?

    Doing a prediction on electoral calculus I was surprised that more significant Tories would not be losing their seats based on being reduced to sub 200 MPs. Tobias Ellwood, Penny Mordaunt, Johnny Mercer, Miriam Cates and Neil O'Brien were the main ones I noticed. Obviously some big names likes IDS, JRM, Lee Anderson but not many of those you'd expect to be rebuilding the party in opposition. On my rough calculation Jeremy Hunt was safe.

    Reeves is doing well in conventional terms - endorsed both by the former BoE Governor and Kenneth Clarke in successive weeks. Ed Miliband retains the respect of green Labour voters who might otherwise question the party's seriousness on green issues. Wes Streeting appeals to centrists as solid and focused and is seen as a potential future leader, though he's not admired on the Left because of his vehemence about Corbyn. Steve Reed is generally seen as having made a good start on Environment and animal welfare. And personally I'm a fan of Stephen Kinnock, who is able to explain the complex immigration issue more lucidly than I've heard anyone else manage.

    I'm in Hunt's constituency (and count him as a friend despite our differences). He's got a serious challenge from the LibDems, and I wouldn't say he was safe.
    Palmer for Tories would have nice historical echoes!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,188
    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Looks like 40.1.1 in the cricket needs something like a 40.1.1.1 sub rule relating to equipment malfunction & player safety inserted. I'd normally say all's fair within the rules, but poor from Bangladesh to appeal that tbh.

    It’s like the Bairstow dismissal. In the laws but against the spirit of cricket.
    This one isn't really comparable to Bairstow's. That was dozy play by Bairstow and sharp by Carey. I've not watched the dismissal but (I think ?) the strap broke while he was walking out I think ? This is about player safety.
    If that was the case, then surely it's a matter of safety?
    Yep - I edited the post to mention that.
  • TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    The New Stupidity of the Young is evidenced by these Palestinian marches, the poster-removers &c. When quizzed, so many of them have no idea why they’re marching or what exactly they’re protesting

    It’s just colonisers = evil, plus an intense desire not to stand out, to go along with the herd

    Young people attaching themselves to the latest cause is hardly new. The intellectual incuriosity and attitudinal herding of the coming generation IS new

    A recent Economist podcast is good on this, looking at the cultural wars aspect of Israel/Gaza.

    Many issues and this one in particular have become binary in nature, framed as the powerful vs the powerless in every domain. And someone powerful can never be discriminated against, while all struggles of the powerless are equal and a common cause, and hence "Queers for Palestine".

    Edit: https://www.economist.com/podcasts/2023/11/01/the-global-culture-war-about-gaza-blurs-the-usual-battle-lines
    Funnily enough, there is a close parallel here with pre-Revolutionary Iran where the 'Red-Black' alliance (Communists + the Clerics) joined together to topple the Shah. The clerics realised the organisational structure of the Communists was critical and let the Communists go on with their rather arrogant assumption that the clerics were all backward mullahs who didn't have the brains to run the country. Didn't end up well for the latter.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355
    edited November 2023

    To be fair to MeteoGroup I understand that their statistical downscaling from global model output to a site-specific forecast was pretty good compared to the Met Office, and because they don't have to pay for the raw model data they can provide a cheaper service to cash-strapped organisations like local councils and the BBC.

    The Met Office put out their own forecasts on YouTube, but I don't think their viewing numbers are that impressive.

    The Met Office Youtube channel is
    https://www.youtube.com/@metoffice
    They do better with the longer range forecasts, and when there's a storm around, but their normal morning and afternoon forecast videos get around 14k views each.

    For a supposedly weather-obsessed nation that isn't many people seeking out the superior Met Office forecast, compared to the numbers that will see the forecasts on the BBC, ITV, Channel 4, or Sky. Do GBNews broadcast a weather forecast?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248
    A

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    148grss said:

    148grss said:

    kyf_100 said:

    148grss said:

    I'm interested by the header name "Class Warfare" - is there a suggestion that somehow it is class warfare if the cabinet is more similar to the population as a whole in terms of their educational experience, but it isn't class warfare when the cabinet is made up from people whose educational experience was entirely separate from the population as a whole? That only people who are, potentially, more likely to advocate for the working class can be "class warriors" whereas people who are Old Etonians are somehow immune to the calling of class interest?

    Think you might be reading too much into a pithy play on words, there.
    I am just used to many people claiming anyone in favour of wealth redistribution towards the poor is "class war" but when we've had policies primarily implemented by the rich and privileged in favour of the rich and privileged is somehow not class war. Also, if there is a class war there must be two sides - and I know which side I'm on.
    The reality of Starmer’s plans is more kids will move from the private sector to the state sector which will bugger up kids from poorer background as scarce resources have to do even more while making the elite even more eliter*

    *Not a real word but it should be.
    I disagree. I believe that the elimination of private schools, or even the disincentive to use private schools, will make people who have money and influence (those more likely to use private schools) will have more of a stake in the state school system and therefore the state school system would likely improve. I also think that private schools shouldn't exist as it is clear that some (like Eton) are just pipelines towards power - not because the attendees get a specifically special education - but because the kind of people who went to Eton and go to Eton have access to power, and therefore the networks created there reinforce that. Whereas if that network was disrupted and distributed across the state school system, more power would be more accessible to more people.
    Nope. Eton will just open branches in the US, Singapore, Dubai, Moscow, and the kids can be educated closer to where their parents live. Okay, perhaps not Moscow any more. The rest will engage in extreme selection by house price within the UK.
    There are ‘branches’ of several British private schools in Bangkok. Don’t know how well the students turn out.
    Yep, same over here. They generally have good reputations and a record of UK and US university admissions.

    My wider point was that trying to legislate some of the best schools in the world out of existence, won’t simply lead to them closing and everyone going to state school. They’ll pop up somewhere else, and the global elites will send their kids there instead.

    The main losers will be the kids of the UK middle classes, who can no longer afford to send their kids to those schools.
    I don't care what the global elite get up to. I do care that we are ruled by people who've never been to a football match and prioritise the protection of grouse shooting when we are hit by a global pandemic. The Covid Inquiry is a devastating case study in what happens when a country is governed by a narrow elite whose life experiences are so far outside of the norm of the people they are governing.
    I'm pretty confident that British politicians will have attended football matches at a higher rate than the general population.
    The enquiry so far has shown a mentality of petty nonsense "process" being the driving force of government. Complaining that it took x months to get someone to ask the PM to ask a one line question about PPE? As opposed to actually asking the people who would know the answer, yourself?

    Seven months to install a handwash dispenser in the Cabinet Office?
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,035
    TOPPING said:

    Fishing said:

    Leon said:

    Neither of the two friendly agreeable girls that are making my breakfast understands that “English Breakfast” is a TYPE of tea. Indeed neither seems able to grasp the concept

    “Why’s it called breakfast then?”

    “Is it English?”

    The dimness of the young is becoming palpable, daily

    These are good questions. It's not English tea and it is not drunk only with breakfast. It's great that the young have such inquiring minds and don't simply accept the absurdities of the world they are presented with.
    Not to mention that a full English breakfast is a fry-up. Otoh, I do not drink tea but have heard of English Breakfast tea which you can buy in Sainsbury's. I've always kind of assumed that any non-typed tea was also English Breakfast tea but don't drink the stuff so it does not matter. My tea industry mole has fled the country, unfortunately.
    Who asks specifically for English Breakfast Tea, which is just generic basic tea that you will be given if you ask for a cup of tea? It's like asking for a hen's egg.
    It's a ghastly Americanism, taking over like so many ghastly Americanisms because of their overwhelming dominance, lack of logical thought and almost complete ignorance of foreign countries.
    Rubbish it is what you ask for if you want builders tea. Everyone knows, or should know what it is.

    It is sold as "English Breakfast Tea" and people should know what it means.
    Rubbish. If I want builder's tea I ask for builder's tea.

    And English Breakfast Tea is indeed an Americanism, apparently dating from 1834 in New York, albeit coined by someone from Hull no doubt, seeking to appeal to his illogical and ignorant customers. There's nothing English about it - it was a blend of Chinese and Indian teas first made in New York.

    https://www.diffordsguide.com/encyclopedia/1155/bws/english-breakfast-tea
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Looks like 40.1.1 in the cricket needs something like a 40.1.1.1 sub rule relating to equipment malfunction & player safety inserted. I'd normally say all's fair within the rules, but poor from Bangladesh to appeal that tbh.

    It’s like the Bairstow dismissal. In the laws but against the spirit of cricket.
    This one isn't really comparable to Bairstow's. That was dozy play by Bairstow and sharp by Carey. I've not watched the dismissal but (I think ?) the strap broke while he was walking out I think ? I know old man Matthews likes to take his time, but this is about player safety.
    He got out to the middle, and then realised his helmet strap wasn’t right.
    Video> https://x.com/factsallwebsite/status/1721479041075802236?s=61
    Does seem less than reasonable on the face of it, given that the issue was a failure of safety equipment.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Neither of the two friendly agreeable girls that are making my breakfast understands that “English Breakfast” is a TYPE of tea. Indeed neither seems able to grasp the concept

    “Why’s it called breakfast then?”

    “Is it English?”

    The dimness of the young is becoming palpable, daily

    These are good questions. It's not English tea and it is not drunk only with breakfast. It's great that the young have such inquiring minds and don't simply accept the absurdities of the world they are presented with.
    Not to mention that a full English breakfast is a fry-up. Otoh, I do not drink tea but have heard of English Breakfast tea which you can buy in Sainsbury's. I've always kind of assumed that any non-typed tea was also English Breakfast tea but don't drink the stuff so it does not matter. My tea industry mole has fled the country, unfortunately.
    Who asks specifically for English Breakfast Tea, which is just generic basic tea that you will be given if you ask for a cup of tea? It's like asking for a hen's egg.
    Just back from a trip to Budapest and Vienna. Asking for "tea" produced any number of weird concoctions, but "black tea" (aka English Breakfast tea) was difficult to find, and if it arrived it was in a glass made with luke-warm water. The idea that it might be accompanied by a few drops of milk was baffling to the locals.
    With a few honourable exceptions -Sri Lankans not only make a great cuppa but actually grow the bloody stuff - Jonny Foreigner tends to struggle with the basics of a proper cup of tea. It's one of the reasons I rarely leave the country.
    Also, you’re scared of driving on the right
    Of course I am! You think that people who can't make a decent cup of tea can be trusted to manoeuvre a motor vehicle with due care and attention, especially on such an unnatural side of the carriageway? Your devil may care attitude astonishes me - you need to spend less time hating on tabbies and asking for specific types of tea and focus on the real dangers out there.
    The inability of Europeans and Americans to make a decent cup of tea is baffling. It's not hard.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    A more interesting stat would be, percentage of the cabinet who send/sent their own kids (if they had kids) to private school.

    Good call. We should have a law that any MP of a governing party should have to send their kids to the worst performing school in their constituency. See how they like that fecker!
    Only if they oppose choice and private education and free schools, religious schools and grammar schools etc. Otherwise there is no
    hypocrisy if they choose the above for their kids
    But they come up with the policies, dole out the funds and generally dick about with our kids education. By never sending their sprogs to crap state schools, they never have to face the consequences. Typical!
    The more choice parents
    have the more likely crap, inadequate rated schools will
    eventually close as failing
    unprofitable businesses eventually go bust via lack of demand for their products and services
    In the real world.....
    That is the real world, supply and demand
    How many under performing schools have closed?
    In the private sector underperforming private schools go bust and close. In the state sector underperforming state schools just tend to be made into academies. No reason if they still fail to perform and have collapsing rolls they cannot also be closed
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812
    edited November 2023

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    A more interesting stat would be, percentage of the cabinet who send/sent their own kids (if they had kids) to private school.

    Good call. We should have a law that any MP of a governing party should have to send their kids to the worst performing school in their constituency. See how they like that fecker!
    Only if they oppose choice and private education and free schools, religious schools and grammar schools etc. Otherwise there is no
    hypocrisy if they choose the above for their kids
    But they come up with the policies, dole out the funds and generally dick about with our kids education. By never sending their sprogs to crap state schools, they never have to face the consequences. Typical!
    The more choice parents
    have the more likely crap, inadequate rated schools will
    eventually close as failing
    unprofitable businesses eventually go bust via lack of demand for their products and services
    In the real world.....
    That is the real world, supply and demand
    How many under performing schools have closed?
    My wife's school, Arbroath Academy, was the worst school in Angus when she went there. Her father was a Labour local councillor and believed that his daughters should attend the local school. It is not a choice we made with our kids.

    45 years after she left Arbroath Academy is still the worst performing school in Angus. Nothing has changed. No one has been held to account for condemning generations of young kids to a life of casual employment and crime. It really is shocking what we can tolerate.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792

    To be fair to MeteoGroup I understand that their statistical downscaling from global model output to a site-specific forecast was pretty good compared to the Met Office, and because they don't have to pay for the raw model data they can provide a cheaper service to cash-strapped organisations like local councils and the BBC.

    The Met Office put out their own forecasts on YouTube, but I don't think their viewing numbers are that impressive.

    The Met Office Youtube channel is
    https://www.youtube.com/@metoffice
    They do better with the longer range forecasts, and when there's a storm around, but their normal morning and afternoon forecast videos get around 14k views each.

    For a supposedly weather-obsessed nation that isn't many people seeking out the superior Met Office forecast, compared to the numbers that will see the forecasts on the BBC, ITV, Channel 4, or Sky. Do GBNews broadcast a weather forecast?
    All down to 1) Force of habit, and 2) Better graphic design, IMO.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248
    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Our cup runneth over, KTHopkins and Tommeh are BACK!


    They’re planning a march to defend the cenotaph at the weekend. Should be fine
    One of the more worrying developments this week is the risk of genuine concerns about rising anti-semitism, particularly but not exclusively in immigrant cultures, being overshadowed by the tub-thumping anti-Muslamics and Furriners brigade, who are keen to jump on any cause to prove a point.

    There are some people whose support you can do without... the anti-semites in our society are doing quite a good job of outing themselves without the need for counter-protests.
    I suggest that we hire the Circus Maximus and try a version of the Gala Program by Saki.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,035
    Off topic, but I see Putin has decided to stay in office till 2030, which renders next year's election somewhat redundant.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/11/06/russia-ukraine-zelensky-putin-war-latest-news2/

    "The Russian president reportedly feels he must steer the country through the most perilous period in decades."

    .... for which of course he himself is entirely responsible ...

    Does anybody know if the results of that election have been posted somewhere yet? I'd like to make some money by betting on a sure thing if possible.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    Fishing said:

    TOPPING said:

    Fishing said:

    Leon said:

    Neither of the two friendly agreeable girls that are making my breakfast understands that “English Breakfast” is a TYPE of tea. Indeed neither seems able to grasp the concept

    “Why’s it called breakfast then?”

    “Is it English?”

    The dimness of the young is becoming palpable, daily

    These are good questions. It's not English tea and it is not drunk only with breakfast. It's great that the young have such inquiring minds and don't simply accept the absurdities of the world they are presented with.
    Not to mention that a full English breakfast is a fry-up. Otoh, I do not drink tea but have heard of English Breakfast tea which you can buy in Sainsbury's. I've always kind of assumed that any non-typed tea was also English Breakfast tea but don't drink the stuff so it does not matter. My tea industry mole has fled the country, unfortunately.
    Who asks specifically for English Breakfast Tea, which is just generic basic tea that you will be given if you ask for a cup of tea? It's like asking for a hen's egg.
    It's a ghastly Americanism, taking over like so many ghastly Americanisms because of their overwhelming dominance, lack of logical thought and almost complete ignorance of foreign countries.
    Rubbish it is what you ask for if you want builders tea. Everyone knows, or should know what it is.

    It is sold as "English Breakfast Tea" and people should know what it means.
    Rubbish. If I want builder's tea I ask for builder's tea.

    And English Breakfast Tea is indeed an Americanism, apparently dating from 1834 in New York, albeit coined by someone from Hull no doubt, seeking to appeal to his illogical and ignorant customers. There's nothing English about it - it was a blend of Chinese and Indian teas first made in New York.

    https://www.diffordsguide.com/encyclopedia/1155/bws/english-breakfast-tea
    Of course, darjeeling, some other fancy teas, whatever. And hence it's English. Just as Chicken Tikka Masala is English.

    And I am not 100% sure your strike rate will be high asking for builders tea up and down the country.
  • TOPPING said:

    Cyclefree said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Our cup runneth over, KTHopkins and Tommeh are BACK!


    They’re planning a march to defend the cenotaph at the weekend. Should be fine
    One of the more worrying developments this week is the risk of genuine concerns about rising anti-semitism, particularly but not exclusively in immigrant cultures, being overshadowed by the tub-thumping anti-Muslamics and Furriners brigade, who are keen to jump on any cause to prove a point.

    There are some people whose support you can do without... the anti-semites in our society are doing quite a good job of outing themselves without the need for counter-protests.
    Quite. The Tommy Robinsons of this world are not pro-Jews. They are anti-Muslim and quite as repellent as the anti-semites.
    If the march goes ahead on 11/11 I can foresee plenty of EDL protests it is the perfect rallying cry.

    Does not bode well for inter-community cohesion whatever happens.
    Maybe but 11/11 is Saturday, Armistice Day. The big Cenotaph do with the video of Boris spliced in is Sunday, Remembrance Day.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,424
    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Looks like 40.1.1 in the cricket needs something like a 40.1.1.1 sub rule relating to equipment malfunction & player safety inserted. I'd normally say all's fair within the rules, but poor from Bangladesh to appeal that tbh.

    It’s like the Bairstow dismissal. In the laws but against the spirit of cricket.
    This one isn't really comparable to Bairstow's. That was dozy play by Bairstow and sharp by Carey. I've not watched the dismissal but (I think ?) the strap broke while he was walking out I think ? I know old man Matthews likes to take his time, but this is about player safety.
    He got out to the middle, and then realised his helmet strap wasn’t right.
    Video> https://x.com/factsallwebsite/status/1721479041075802236?s=61
    Does seem less than reasonable on the face of it, given that the issue was a failure of safety equipment.
    The BBC’s commentariat is speculating as to whether the incident will fire up the Sri Lankans as Bairstow’s did Stokes.
    They’re also making the (fair) point that if the fielding side lose time the penalty is to lose an out-fielder. The batting side’s is to lose a player completely.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    edited November 2023
    Cookie said:

    Fishing said:

    Leon said:

    Neither of the two friendly agreeable girls that are making my breakfast understands that “English Breakfast” is a TYPE of tea. Indeed neither seems able to grasp the concept

    “Why’s it called breakfast then?”

    “Is it English?”

    The dimness of the young is becoming palpable, daily

    These are good questions. It's not English tea and it is not drunk only with breakfast. It's great that the young have such inquiring minds and don't simply accept the absurdities of the world they are presented with.
    Not to mention that a full English breakfast is a fry-up. Otoh, I do not drink tea but have heard of English Breakfast tea which you can buy in Sainsbury's. I've always kind of assumed that any non-typed tea was also English Breakfast tea but don't drink the stuff so it does not matter. My tea industry mole has fled the country, unfortunately.
    Who asks specifically for English Breakfast Tea, which is just generic basic tea that you will be given if you ask for a cup of tea? It's like asking for a hen's egg.
    It's a ghastly Americanism, taking over like so many ghastly Americanisms because of their overwhelming dominance, lack of logical thought and almost complete ignorance of foreign countries.
    It's what you have to ask for when someone rather grandly offers you a choice of teas.
    Why someone would willingly choose Earl Grey 'tea' will remain forever beyond me.
    Earl Grey and Breakfast tea (or what I call tea) mixed is nice.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248
    A
    Fishing said:

    Off topic, but I see Putin has decided to stay in office till 2030, which renders next year's election somewhat redundant.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/11/06/russia-ukraine-zelensky-putin-war-latest-news2/

    "The Russian president reportedly feels he must steer the country through the most perilous period in decades."

    .... for which of course he himself is entirely responsible ...

    Does anybody know if the results of that election have been posted somewhere yet? I'd like to make some money by betting on a sure thing if possible.

    Well



  • TOPPING said:

    Hold on is there going to be anything (apart from the pro-Palestinian march, obvs) going on at the Cenotaph on Saturday? Sunday yes but Saturday? Not aware that anything official happens then.

    The pro-Palestine march is, as you say, a day earlier. It starts two hours later and the route does not go down Whitehall.

    Where there might be a problem is for the police. If a counter-march is proposed to "defend the Cenotaph" or whatever, then if it is not banned there might be trouble and if it is banned, people will want to know why the Palestine march was allowed to go ahead.
  • To be fair to MeteoGroup I understand that their statistical downscaling from global model output to a site-specific forecast was pretty good compared to the Met Office, and because they don't have to pay for the raw model data they can provide a cheaper service to cash-strapped organisations like local councils and the BBC.

    The Met Office put out their own forecasts on YouTube, but I don't think their viewing numbers are that impressive.

    The Met Office Youtube channel is
    https://www.youtube.com/@metoffice
    They do better with the longer range forecasts, and when there's a storm around, but their normal morning and afternoon forecast videos get around 14k views each.

    For a supposedly weather-obsessed nation that isn't many people seeking out the superior Met Office forecast, compared to the numbers that will see the forecasts on the BBC, ITV, Channel 4, or Sky. Do GBNews broadcast a weather forecast?
    Many racing people look at several forecasts. Possibly the same is true of other sports. For me the BBC forecast on the website is clearest. The Met Office is sometimes a bit: here's an animated map, work out the rest for yourself.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248
    The back story on - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67218916 - is interesting

    Nothing has changed in the sweat shops of Leicester, it seems.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355
    edited November 2023
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Neither of the two friendly agreeable girls that are making my breakfast understands that “English Breakfast” is a TYPE of tea. Indeed neither seems able to grasp the concept

    “Why’s it called breakfast then?”

    “Is it English?”

    The dimness of the young is becoming palpable, daily

    These are good questions. It's not English tea and it is not drunk only with breakfast. It's great that the young have such inquiring minds and don't simply accept the absurdities of the world they are presented with.
    Not to mention that a full English breakfast is a fry-up. Otoh, I do not drink tea but have heard of English Breakfast tea which you can buy in Sainsbury's. I've always kind of assumed that any non-typed tea was also English Breakfast tea but don't drink the stuff so it does not matter. My tea industry mole has fled the country, unfortunately.
    Who asks specifically for English Breakfast Tea, which is just generic basic tea that you will be given if you ask for a cup of tea? It's like asking for a hen's egg.
    Just back from a trip to Budapest and Vienna. Asking for "tea" produced any number of weird concoctions, but "black tea" (aka English Breakfast tea) was difficult to find, and if it arrived it was in a glass made with luke-warm water. The idea that it might be accompanied by a few drops of milk was baffling to the locals.
    With a few honourable exceptions -Sri Lankans not only make a great cuppa but actually grow the bloody stuff - Jonny Foreigner tends to struggle with the basics of a proper cup of tea. It's one of the reasons I rarely leave the country.
    Also, you’re scared of driving on the right
    Of course I am! You think that people who can't make a decent cup of tea can be trusted to manoeuvre a motor vehicle with due care and attention, especially on such an unnatural side of the carriageway? Your devil may care attitude astonishes me - you need to spend less time hating on tabbies and asking for specific types of tea and focus on the real dangers out there.
    The inability of Europeans and Americans to make a decent cup of tea is baffling. It's not hard.
    There are plenty of places in Britain unable to make tea. The proliferation of coffee shops hasn't helped, but incompetent tea-making has spread from there.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,073
    edited November 2023
    "How did Britain come to this? The accidental logics of Britain's neoliberal settlement" | LSE Event, LSE, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGRvpppzA8E , 90 minutes
  • Fishing said:

    Off topic, but I see Putin has decided to stay in office till 2030, which renders next year's election somewhat redundant.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/11/06/russia-ukraine-zelensky-putin-war-latest-news2/

    "The Russian president reportedly feels he must steer the country through the most perilous period in decades."

    .... for which of course he himself is entirely responsible ...

    Does anybody know if the results of that election have been posted somewhere yet? I'd like to make some money by betting on a sure thing if possible.

    They can't possibly confirm the result of the Russian presidential election until Putin's top men have completed a full safety audit of the windows of all opposition candidates, so as to avoid unfortunate mishaps.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Neither of the two friendly agreeable girls that are making my breakfast understands that “English Breakfast” is a TYPE of tea. Indeed neither seems able to grasp the concept

    “Why’s it called breakfast then?”

    “Is it English?”

    The dimness of the young is becoming palpable, daily

    These are good questions. It's not English tea and it is not drunk only with breakfast. It's great that the young have such inquiring minds and don't simply accept the absurdities of the world they are presented with.
    Not to mention that a full English breakfast is a fry-up. Otoh, I do not drink tea but have heard of English Breakfast tea which you can buy in Sainsbury's. I've always kind of assumed that any non-typed tea was also English Breakfast tea but don't drink the stuff so it does not matter. My tea industry mole has fled the country, unfortunately.
    Who asks specifically for English Breakfast Tea, which is just generic basic tea that you will be given if you ask for a cup of tea? It's like asking for a hen's egg.
    Just back from a trip to Budapest and Vienna. Asking for "tea" produced any number of weird concoctions, but "black tea" (aka English Breakfast tea) was difficult to find, and if it arrived it was in a glass made with luke-warm water. The idea that it might be accompanied by a few drops of milk was baffling to the locals.
    With a few honourable exceptions -Sri Lankans not only make a great cuppa but actually grow the bloody stuff - Jonny Foreigner tends to struggle with the basics of a proper cup of tea. It's one of the reasons I rarely leave the country.
    Also, you’re scared of driving on the right
    Of course I am! You think that people who can't make a decent cup of tea can be trusted to manoeuvre a motor vehicle with due care and attention, especially on such an unnatural side of the carriageway? Your devil may care attitude astonishes me - you need to spend less time hating on tabbies and asking for specific types of tea and focus on the real dangers out there.
    The inability of Europeans and Americans to make a decent cup of tea is baffling. It's not hard.
    There are plenty of places in Britain unable to make tea. The proliferation of coffee shops hasn't helped, but incompetent tea-making has spread from there.
    Was talking of this with a friend who doesn't drink - so has tea all the time - the other day.

    The number of people who can't arrange

    1) A cup of boiled water
    2) Teabag
    3) intersection between 1 & 2

    is quite remarkable.

    Some coffee shops do quite a good job - even offering pre-heated mini pots etc.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,586

    Cookie said:

    Fishing said:

    Leon said:

    Neither of the two friendly agreeable girls that are making my breakfast understands that “English Breakfast” is a TYPE of tea. Indeed neither seems able to grasp the concept

    “Why’s it called breakfast then?”

    “Is it English?”

    The dimness of the young is becoming palpable, daily

    These are good questions. It's not English tea and it is not drunk only with breakfast. It's great that the young have such inquiring minds and don't simply accept the absurdities of the world they are presented with.
    Not to mention that a full English breakfast is a fry-up. Otoh, I do not drink tea but have heard of English Breakfast tea which you can buy in Sainsbury's. I've always kind of assumed that any non-typed tea was also English Breakfast tea but don't drink the stuff so it does not matter. My tea industry mole has fled the country, unfortunately.
    Who asks specifically for English Breakfast Tea, which is just generic basic tea that you will be given if you ask for a cup of tea? It's like asking for a hen's egg.
    It's a ghastly Americanism, taking over like so many ghastly Americanisms because of their overwhelming dominance, lack of logical thought and almost complete ignorance of foreign countries.
    It's what you have to ask for when someone rather grandly offers you a choice of teas.
    Why someone would willingly choose Earl Grey 'tea' will remain forever beyond me.
    Earl Grey is absolute garbage tea.
    It smells like a bad nursing home.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,145
    edited November 2023
    TOPPING said:

    Fishing said:

    TOPPING said:

    Fishing said:

    Leon said:

    Neither of the two friendly agreeable girls that are making my breakfast understands that “English Breakfast” is a TYPE of tea. Indeed neither seems able to grasp the concept

    “Why’s it called breakfast then?”

    “Is it English?”

    The dimness of the young is becoming palpable, daily

    These are good questions. It's not English tea and it is not drunk only with breakfast. It's great that the young have such inquiring minds and don't simply accept the absurdities of the world they are presented with.
    Not to mention that a full English breakfast is a fry-up. Otoh, I do not drink tea but have heard of English Breakfast tea which you can buy in Sainsbury's. I've always kind of assumed that any non-typed tea was also English Breakfast tea but don't drink the stuff so it does not matter. My tea industry mole has fled the country, unfortunately.
    Who asks specifically for English Breakfast Tea, which is just generic basic tea that you will be given if you ask for a cup of tea? It's like asking for a hen's egg.
    It's a ghastly Americanism, taking over like so many ghastly Americanisms because of their overwhelming dominance, lack of logical thought and almost complete ignorance of foreign countries.
    Rubbish it is what you ask for if you want builders tea. Everyone knows, or should know what it is.

    It is sold as "English Breakfast Tea" and people should know what it means.
    Rubbish. If I want builder's tea I ask for builder's tea.

    And English Breakfast Tea is indeed an Americanism, apparently dating from 1834 in New York, albeit coined by someone from Hull no doubt, seeking to appeal to his illogical and ignorant customers. There's nothing English about it - it was a blend of Chinese and Indian teas first made in New York.

    https://www.diffordsguide.com/encyclopedia/1155/bws/english-breakfast-tea
    Of course, darjeeling, some other fancy teas, whatever. And hence it's English. Just as Chicken Tikka Masala is English.

    And I am not 100% sure your strike rate will be high asking for builders tea up and down the country.
    I think Welsh Tea (grown in Wales) is a thing now.
    Peterston Tea made the candidate's list for BBC Food and Farming Awards.

    Just been over to check the price - £16.00 for 12g (yes - 12 grams). Their blurb says use it 2 or 3 times, like they used to do in Colditz. At Fortnums buying in bulk, it is £200 for 100g.

    I make that 200x the price of Sainsbury's Red Label loose tea, which is 0.6p per gram.

    Best served in a mug, I expect.

    https://www.peterstontea.com/shop/blacktea
    https://www.walesfarmer.co.uk/news/23872306.velfrey-vineyard-reach-finals-bbc-food-farming-awards/

  • VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,543

    Fishing said:

    Off topic, but I see Putin has decided to stay in office till 2030, which renders next year's election somewhat redundant.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/11/06/russia-ukraine-zelensky-putin-war-latest-news2/

    "The Russian president reportedly feels he must steer the country through the most perilous period in decades."

    .... for which of course he himself is entirely responsible ...

    Does anybody know if the results of that election have been posted somewhere yet? I'd like to make some money by betting on a sure thing if possible.

    They can't possibly confirm the result of the Russian presidential election until Putin's top men have completed a full safety audit of the windows of all opposition candidates, so as to avoid unfortunate mishaps.
    This assumes that Putin (or his double) will survive until then.
  • Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Neither of the two friendly agreeable girls that are making my breakfast understands that “English Breakfast” is a TYPE of tea. Indeed neither seems able to grasp the concept

    “Why’s it called breakfast then?”

    “Is it English?”

    The dimness of the young is becoming palpable, daily

    These are good questions. It's not English tea and it is not drunk only with breakfast. It's great that the young have such inquiring minds and don't simply accept the absurdities of the world they are presented with.
    Not to mention that a full English breakfast is a fry-up. Otoh, I do not drink tea but have heard of English Breakfast tea which you can buy in Sainsbury's. I've always kind of assumed that any non-typed tea was also English Breakfast tea but don't drink the stuff so it does not matter. My tea industry mole has fled the country, unfortunately.
    Who asks specifically for English Breakfast Tea, which is just generic basic tea that you will be given if you ask for a cup of tea? It's like asking for a hen's egg.
    Just back from a trip to Budapest and Vienna. Asking for "tea" produced any number of weird concoctions, but "black tea" (aka English Breakfast tea) was difficult to find, and if it arrived it was in a glass made with luke-warm water. The idea that it might be accompanied by a few drops of milk was baffling to the locals.
    With a few honourable exceptions -Sri Lankans not only make a great cuppa but actually grow the bloody stuff - Jonny Foreigner tends to struggle with the basics of a proper cup of tea. It's one of the reasons I rarely leave the country.
    Also, you’re scared of driving on the right
    Of course I am! You think that people who can't make a decent cup of tea can be trusted to manoeuvre a motor vehicle with due care and attention, especially on such an unnatural side of the carriageway? Your devil may care attitude astonishes me - you need to spend less time hating on tabbies and asking for specific types of tea and focus on the real dangers out there.
    The inability of Europeans and Americans to make a decent cup of tea is baffling. It's not hard.
    Indeed. I think it must be a deliberate slight. It's the only logical explanation.
  • Fishing said:

    Off topic, but I see Putin has decided to stay in office till 2030, which renders next year's election somewhat redundant.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/11/06/russia-ukraine-zelensky-putin-war-latest-news2/

    "The Russian president reportedly feels he must steer the country through the most perilous period in decades."

    .... for which of course he himself is entirely responsible ...

    Does anybody know if the results of that election have been posted somewhere yet? I'd like to make some money by betting on a sure thing if possible.

    They can't possibly confirm the result of the Russian presidential election until Putin's top men have completed a full safety audit of the windows of all opposition candidates, so as to avoid unfortunate mishaps.
    This assumes that Putin (or his double) will survive until then.
    Whilst he'll go the way of all flesh eventually, of course, I take rumours he's seriously ill with a pinch of salt. According to some sources, he's been at death's door so often over recent years that the fact he hasn't yet gone through makes him some kind of latter day Rasputin.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    In PPE news:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/nov/06/michelle-mone-admits-involvement-with-vip-lane-ppe-company

    'The Conservative peer Michelle Mone has acknowledged for the first time that she was involved with a company that was awarded government PPE contracts worth £200m during the Covid pandemic.

    Lady Mone’s husband, Douglas Barrowman, has also acknowledged for the first time that he was involved in the company, PPE Medpro.[...]

    The admissions raise questions about years of denials from the couple. Until now, Mone and Barrowman have consistently and emphatically denied to the Guardian, via lawyers, that they were involved in the company.'
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,145
    edited November 2023
    Good morning all.

    Back from the dentist, and feeling the pain :smiley: .

    One filling. 20 minutes. £209.27. TBF that probably covers the check-up.

    That is now put firmly in context.

    I could have used the spondulix to buy 157g of Welsh tea.

    Selfish bugger in (and out of) the car park completely blocking the pavement with his planka-tonka, just like the not-very-mini-Mini last time.

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,424
    Carnyx said:

    In PPE news:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/nov/06/michelle-mone-admits-involvement-with-vip-lane-ppe-company

    'The Conservative peer Michelle Mone has acknowledged for the first time that she was involved with a company that was awarded government PPE contracts worth £200m during the Covid pandemic.

    Lady Mone’s husband, Douglas Barrowman, has also acknowledged for the first time that he was involved in the company, PPE Medpro.[...]

    The admissions raise questions about years of denials from the couple. Until now, Mone and Barrowman have consistently and emphatically denied to the Guardian, via lawyers, that they were involved in the company.'

    Can people be extradited from the Isle of Man?
  • Carnyx said:

    In PPE news:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/nov/06/michelle-mone-admits-involvement-with-vip-lane-ppe-company

    'The Conservative peer Michelle Mone has acknowledged for the first time that she was involved with a company that was awarded government PPE contracts worth £200m during the Covid pandemic.

    Lady Mone’s husband, Douglas Barrowman, has also acknowledged for the first time that he was involved in the company, PPE Medpro.[...]

    The admissions raise questions about years of denials from the couple. Until now, Mone and Barrowman have consistently and emphatically denied to the Guardian, via lawyers, that they were involved in the company.'

    Are we at the money was just resting in my account stage yet?
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    A more interesting stat would be, percentage of the cabinet who send/sent their own kids (if they had kids) to private school.

    Good call. We should have a law that any MP of a governing party should have to send their kids to the worst performing school in their constituency. See how they like that fecker!
    Only if they oppose choice and private education and free schools, religious schools and grammar schools etc. Otherwise there is no
    hypocrisy if they choose the above for their kids
    But they come up with the policies, dole out the funds and generally dick about with our kids education. By never sending their sprogs to crap state schools, they never have to face the consequences. Typical!
    The more choice parents
    have the more likely crap, inadequate rated schools will
    eventually close as failing
    unprofitable businesses eventually go bust via lack of demand for their products and services
    In the real world.....
    That is the real world, supply and demand
    How many under performing schools have closed?
    In the private sector underperforming private schools go bust and close. In the state sector underperforming state schools just tend to be made into academies. No reason if they still fail to perform and have collapsing rolls they cannot also be closed
    Thing is, the rolls don't collapse. Not entirely.

    If you want market pressures like that to apply, the government has to be willing to fund quite a lot of empty school capacity, enough that all the parents at Hellhole High can realistically send their children elsewhere. And nobody, whether on the left or the right, is willing to do that.

    What tends to happen is that the worst school in the town collects all the empty spaces but every other school (2nd worst and upwards) are full to their capacity. A half-empty school still has to operate, so it limps along, but it has to carry the overheads on a smaller income base, so it stays in a zombie doom loop, if such a thing is possible.

    (The way I'd like to reform academisation, even if it wouldn't work, would be to make it more like other forms of competitive tendering. Fixed term contracts, but with management organisations setting the cost in their bids. Partly because I believe in things costing what they cost, and also because turning round a difficult school in a struggling community is more expensive to do well than running a straightforward school or starting with a blank sheet.)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    edited November 2023
    MattW said:

    Good morning all.

    Back from the dentist, and feeling the pain :smiley: .

    One filling. 20 minutes. £209.

    Selfish bugger in (and out of) the car park completely blocking the pavement with his planka-tonka, just like the not-very-mini-Mini last time.

    That is now put firmly in context.

    I could have used the spondulix to buy 157g of Welsh tea.

    I was wondering how the Welsh Tea compares with saffron. Turns out the latter is about £4 for 0.5g if you go to Tesco's. That's about 10g saffron equivalent to your filling. Still some way for Welsh Tea to go, evidently.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355
    carnforth said:
    Although the page says:
    "The tea is virtually never referred to as "breakfast tea" (except as the name of specific blends produced by Barry's, Bewley's, Thompson's and the British brand Twinings)"

    Which is a bit baffling, as I'm fairly certain there's no breakfast tea blend from Barry's. You can have Original, Gold and Master blends from the supermarket, but I've not seen anywhere that serves anything other than the Gold blend.

    The wiki page is right about the milk though. I've never seen so much milk put into a cup of tea as in Ireland. You can tell the difference between tourist and local cafes by the size of the pitchers of milk on the tables.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829

    Carnyx said:

    In PPE news:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/nov/06/michelle-mone-admits-involvement-with-vip-lane-ppe-company

    'The Conservative peer Michelle Mone has acknowledged for the first time that she was involved with a company that was awarded government PPE contracts worth £200m during the Covid pandemic.

    Lady Mone’s husband, Douglas Barrowman, has also acknowledged for the first time that he was involved in the company, PPE Medpro.[...]

    The admissions raise questions about years of denials from the couple. Until now, Mone and Barrowman have consistently and emphatically denied to the Guardian, via lawyers, that they were involved in the company.'

    Are we at the money was just resting in my account stage yet?
    I'm just wondering about the timing of even the reported change.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,051

    Carnyx said:

    In PPE news:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/nov/06/michelle-mone-admits-involvement-with-vip-lane-ppe-company

    'The Conservative peer Michelle Mone has acknowledged for the first time that she was involved with a company that was awarded government PPE contracts worth £200m during the Covid pandemic.

    Lady Mone’s husband, Douglas Barrowman, has also acknowledged for the first time that he was involved in the company, PPE Medpro.[...]

    The admissions raise questions about years of denials from the couple. Until now, Mone and Barrowman have consistently and emphatically denied to the Guardian, via lawyers, that they were involved in the company.'

    Can people be extradited from the Isle of Man?
    To the UK? Technically, no! As I understand it, the Isle of Man is part of the same extradition territory as the UK. So, it's not extradition to transfer someone from Man to the UK. Rather, I guess the Isle of Man Act 1979, https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1979/58/section/5 , applies.
  • Carnyx said:

    In PPE news:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/nov/06/michelle-mone-admits-involvement-with-vip-lane-ppe-company

    'The Conservative peer Michelle Mone has acknowledged for the first time that she was involved with a company that was awarded government PPE contracts worth £200m during the Covid pandemic.

    Lady Mone’s husband, Douglas Barrowman, has also acknowledged for the first time that he was involved in the company, PPE Medpro.[...]

    The admissions raise questions about years of denials from the couple. Until now, Mone and Barrowman have consistently and emphatically denied to the Guardian, via lawyers, that they were involved in the company.'

    Are statements to the Guardian made under oath?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,145
    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Good morning all.

    Back from the dentist, and feeling the pain :smiley: .

    One filling. 20 minutes. £209.

    Selfish bugger in (and out of) the car park completely blocking the pavement with his planka-tonka, just like the not-very-mini-Mini last time.

    That is now put firmly in context.

    I could have used the spondulix to buy 157g of Welsh tea.

    I was wondering how the Welsh Tea compares with saffron. Turns out the latter is about £4 for 0.5g if you go to Tesco's. That's about 10g saffron equivalent to your filling. Still some way for Welsh Tea to go, evidently.
    Fortunately not required to have any jabs in the middle of the top gum, which I hate. Did not reduce the price, though !

    That's my entire year health cash plan dental grant gone in one hit. Time for a larger cash plan I think.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    Leon said:

    File under: Graham Hancock is right, AGAIN?

    A pretty incredible find, if true. A pyramid in Indonesia which is at least 16,000 years old (5000 years OLDER than Gobekli Tepe). Maybe 27,000 years old


    https://www.sciencealert.com/giant-pyramid-buried-in-indonesia-could-be-the-oldest-in-the-world


    Wtaf? There are a lot of ifs and could be’s here, and I’ve seen archaeologists being sniffy on Twitter. Nonetheless reliable people claim this is likely true

    Who knows. Brilliant mystery

    A link to the original paper, which contains considerable detail.
    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/arp.1912
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,890
    edited November 2023

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    A more interesting stat would be, percentage of the cabinet who send/sent their own kids (if they had kids) to private school.

    Good call. We should have a law that any MP of a governing party should have to send their kids to the worst performing school in their constituency. See how they like that fecker!
    Only if they oppose choice and private education and free schools, religious schools and grammar schools etc. Otherwise there is no
    hypocrisy if they choose the above for their kids
    But they come up with the policies, dole out the funds and generally dick about with our kids education. By never sending their sprogs to crap state schools, they never have to face the consequences. Typical!
    The more choice parents
    have the more likely crap, inadequate rated schools will
    eventually close as failing
    unprofitable businesses eventually go bust via lack of demand for their products and services
    In the real world.....
    That is the real world, supply and demand
    How many under performing schools have closed?
    In the private sector underperforming private schools go bust and close. In the state sector underperforming state schools just tend to be made into academies. No reason if they still fail to perform and have collapsing rolls they cannot also be closed
    Thing is, the rolls don't collapse. Not entirely.

    If you want market pressures like that to apply, the government has to be willing to fund quite a lot of empty school capacity, enough that all the parents at Hellhole High can realistically send their children elsewhere. And nobody, whether on the left or the right, is willing to do that.

    What tends to happen is that the worst school in the town collects all the empty spaces but every other school (2nd worst and upwards) are full to their capacity. A half-empty school still has to operate, so it limps along, but it has to carry the overheads on a smaller income base, so it stays in a zombie doom loop, if such a thing is possible.

    (The way I'd like to reform academisation, even if it wouldn't work, would be to make it more like other forms of competitive tendering. Fixed term contracts, but with management organisations setting the cost in their bids. Partly because I believe in things costing what they cost, and also because turning round a difficult school in a struggling community is more expensive to do well than running a straightforward school or starting with a blank sheet.)
    Ending per-pupil funding would mean that schools which attracted fewer children could spend more on teachers or school trips or whatever, and have smaller classes, so the problem would largely self-correct.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    Cyclefree said:

    Just for @Leon.

    Daughter's cat -

    He will continue to be dogged by such posts.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    Leon said:

    The best possible tea is a mix of English Breakfast and Earl Grey. There is no dispute on this

    It's a matter of pu'erly personal preference.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,145
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    The best possible tea is a mix of English Breakfast and Earl Grey. There is no dispute on this

    It's a matter of pu'erly personal preference.
    I always find Earl Grey to be insipid.

    It's like trying to decorate a house with DIY Shed own brand paint - requires about 4 coats.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    A more interesting stat would be, percentage of the cabinet who send/sent their own kids (if they had kids) to private school.

    Good call. We should have a law that any MP of a governing party should have to send their kids to the worst performing school in their constituency. See how they like that fecker!
    Only if they oppose choice and private education and free schools, religious schools and grammar schools etc. Otherwise there is no
    hypocrisy if they choose the above for their kids
    But they come up with the policies, dole out the funds and generally dick about with our kids education. By never sending their sprogs to crap state schools, they never have to face the consequences. Typical!
    The more choice parents
    have the more likely crap, inadequate rated schools will
    eventually close as failing
    unprofitable businesses eventually go bust via lack of demand for their products and services
    In the real world.....
    That is the real world, supply and demand
    How many under performing schools have closed?
    In the private sector underperforming private schools go bust and close. In the state sector underperforming state schools just tend to be made into academies. No reason if they still fail to perform and have collapsing rolls they cannot also be closed
    Thing is, the rolls don't collapse. Not entirely.

    If you want market pressures like that to apply, the government has to be willing to fund quite a lot of empty school capacity, enough that all the parents at Hellhole High can realistically send their children elsewhere. And nobody, whether on the left or the right, is willing to do that.

    What tends to happen is that the worst school in the town collects all the empty spaces but every other school (2nd worst and upwards) are full to their capacity. A half-empty school still has to operate, so it limps along, but it has to carry the overheads on a smaller income base, so it stays in a zombie doom loop, if such a thing is possible.

    (The way I'd like to reform academisation, even if it wouldn't work, would be to make it more like other forms of competitive tendering. Fixed term contracts, but with management organisations setting the cost in their bids. Partly because I believe in things costing what they cost, and also because turning round a difficult school in a struggling community is more expensive to do well than running a straightforward school or starting with a blank sheet.)
    Running public services at 99% capacity has been policy since the year dot. Many different governments.

    Operations Research theory states that organisations run at 99% of capacity are stressed, likely to fail, have massive staff retention problems, etc.
    Conculsion:

    As a society, we value cheapness (even if it's short term; staff retention is bloody expensive to fix once it becomes a problem because you have to overcorrect) and choice (even if it's illusory) over good.

    That's probably a bit too world-weary. But at the very least, we're stuck in a local optimum that is a long way from the best solution. And that kind of metastable state is very hard to move out of.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    Carnyx said:

    In PPE news:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/nov/06/michelle-mone-admits-involvement-with-vip-lane-ppe-company

    'The Conservative peer Michelle Mone has acknowledged for the first time that she was involved with a company that was awarded government PPE contracts worth £200m during the Covid pandemic.

    Lady Mone’s husband, Douglas Barrowman, has also acknowledged for the first time that he was involved in the company, PPE Medpro.[...]

    The admissions raise questions about years of denials from the couple. Until now, Mone and Barrowman have consistently and emphatically denied to the Guardian, via lawyers, that they were involved in the company.'

    It does ?
    I thought everyone already assumed that their propensity for telling the truth was somewhat lacking.
  • Carnyx said:

    In PPE news:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/nov/06/michelle-mone-admits-involvement-with-vip-lane-ppe-company

    'The Conservative peer Michelle Mone has acknowledged for the first time that she was involved with a company that was awarded government PPE contracts worth £200m during the Covid pandemic.

    Lady Mone’s husband, Douglas Barrowman, has also acknowledged for the first time that he was involved in the company, PPE Medpro.[...]

    The admissions raise questions about years of denials from the couple. Until now, Mone and Barrowman have consistently and emphatically denied to the Guardian, via lawyers, that they were involved in the company.'

    Typical state-educated riff-raff. On-topic, this is why we need private education.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    edited November 2023

    Carnyx said:

    In PPE news:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/nov/06/michelle-mone-admits-involvement-with-vip-lane-ppe-company

    'The Conservative peer Michelle Mone has acknowledged for the first time that she was involved with a company that was awarded government PPE contracts worth £200m during the Covid pandemic.

    Lady Mone’s husband, Douglas Barrowman, has also acknowledged for the first time that he was involved in the company, PPE Medpro.[...]

    The admissions raise questions about years of denials from the couple. Until now, Mone and Barrowman have consistently and emphatically denied to the Guardian, via lawyers, that they were involved in the company.'

    Are we at the money was just resting in my account stage yet?
    'Fructifying' is the new term of art.

    More significantly perhaps, their spokesperson:
    ..“The UK government was fully aware of Baroness Mone’s involvement; like many other peers and MPs on the high priority lane, she acted as an intermediary/liaison between PPE Medpro and the Cabinet Office/Department of Health and Social Care.”

    The representative added that Barrowman, who runs the Knox Group, a tax and wealth advisory firm in the Isle of Man, “was the chairman and leader of the PPE Medpro consortium that supplied the UK government”...,/i>
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,035
    edited November 2023

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    A more interesting stat would be, percentage of the cabinet who send/sent their own kids (if they had kids) to private school.

    Good call. We should have a law that any MP of a governing party should have to send their kids to the worst performing school in their constituency. See how they like that fecker!
    Only if they oppose choice and private education and free schools, religious schools and grammar schools etc. Otherwise there is no
    hypocrisy if they choose the above for their kids
    But they come up with the policies, dole out the funds and generally dick about with our kids education. By never sending their sprogs to crap state schools, they never have to face the consequences. Typical!
    The more choice parents
    have the more likely crap, inadequate rated schools will
    eventually close as failing
    unprofitable businesses eventually go bust via lack of demand for their products and services
    In the real world.....
    That is the real world, supply and demand
    How many under performing schools have closed?
    In the private sector underperforming private schools go bust and close. In the state sector underperforming state schools just tend to be made into academies. No reason if they still fail to perform and have collapsing rolls they cannot also be closed
    Thing is, the rolls don't collapse. Not entirely.

    If you want market pressures like that to apply, the government has to be willing to fund quite a lot of empty school capacity, enough that all the parents at Hellhole High can realistically send their children elsewhere. And nobody, whether on the left or the right, is willing to do that.

    What tends to happen is that the worst school in the town collects all the empty spaces but every other school (2nd worst and upwards) are full to their capacity. A half-empty school still has to operate, so it limps along, but it has to carry the overheads on a smaller income base, so it stays in a zombie doom loop, if such a thing is possible.

    (The way I'd like to reform academisation, even if it wouldn't work, would be to make it more like other forms of competitive tendering. Fixed term contracts, but with management organisations setting the cost in their bids. Partly because I believe in things costing what they cost, and also because turning round a difficult school in a struggling community is more expensive to do well than running a straightforward school or starting with a blank sheet.)
    Running public services at 99% capacity has been policy since the year dot. Many different governments.

    That's management policy for the front line, but funnily enough they never apply it to themselves - most public sector managers I've dealt with have positions which range from cushy to outright non-jobs. (All the while going on endlessly about how busy and stressed they are of course, except for the odd honest one).

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    The best possible tea is a mix of English Breakfast and Earl Grey. There is no dispute on this

    It's a matter of pu'erly personal preference.
    I always find Earl Grey to be insipid.

    It's like trying to decorate a house with DIY Shed own brand paint - requires about 4 coats.
    The wife used to drink decaf Earl Grey - possibly the world's most insipid tea...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248
    edited November 2023

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    A more interesting stat would be, percentage of the cabinet who send/sent their own kids (if they had kids) to private school.

    Good call. We should have a law that any MP of a governing party should have to send their kids to the worst performing school in their constituency. See how they like that fecker!
    Only if they oppose choice and private education and free schools, religious schools and grammar schools etc. Otherwise there is no
    hypocrisy if they choose the above for their kids
    But they come up with the policies, dole out the funds and generally dick about with our kids education. By never sending their sprogs to crap state schools, they never have to face the consequences. Typical!
    The more choice parents
    have the more likely crap, inadequate rated schools will
    eventually close as failing
    unprofitable businesses eventually go bust via lack of demand for their products and services
    In the real world.....
    That is the real world, supply and demand
    How many under performing schools have closed?
    In the private sector underperforming private schools go bust and close. In the state sector underperforming state schools just tend to be made into academies. No reason if they still fail to perform and have collapsing rolls they cannot also be closed
    Thing is, the rolls don't collapse. Not entirely.

    If you want market pressures like that to apply, the government has to be willing to fund quite a lot of empty school capacity, enough that all the parents at Hellhole High can realistically send their children elsewhere. And nobody, whether on the left or the right, is willing to do that.

    What tends to happen is that the worst school in the town collects all the empty spaces but every other school (2nd worst and upwards) are full to their capacity. A half-empty school still has to operate, so it limps along, but it has to carry the overheads on a smaller income base, so it stays in a zombie doom loop, if such a thing is possible.

    (The way I'd like to reform academisation, even if it wouldn't work, would be to make it more like other forms of competitive tendering. Fixed term contracts, but with management organisations setting the cost in their bids. Partly because I believe in things costing what they cost, and also because turning round a difficult school in a struggling community is more expensive to do well than running a straightforward school or starting with a blank sheet.)
    Running public services at 99% capacity has been policy since the year dot. Many different governments.

    Operations Research theory states that organisations run at 99% of capacity are stressed, likely to fail, have massive staff retention problems, etc.
    Conculsion:

    As a society, we value cheapness (even if it's short term; staff retention is bloody expensive to fix once it becomes a problem because you have to overcorrect) and choice (even if it's illusory) over good.

    That's probably a bit too world-weary. But at the very least, we're stuck in a local optimum that is a long way from the best solution. And that kind of metastable state is very hard to move out of.
    "Quote Me Happy"

    I am reminded of a friend who spent a decade getting a 8 foot square piece of flat roof repeatedly repaired - sneaky water leak. Because he didn't want to be "silly" and spend the money on getting it replaced.

    In the end he had it completely replaced. After spending 5x the money over the years.

    EDIT: It's a function of political pressure. Reduce "waste" and the organisation can kinda stagger on. At least as far as the next election.
  • MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    The best possible tea is a mix of English Breakfast and Earl Grey. There is no dispute on this

    It's a matter of pu'erly personal preference.
    I always find Earl Grey to be insipid.

    It's like trying to decorate a house with DIY Shed own brand paint - requires about 4 coats.
    Earl Grey is tea for people who don't like tea, usually produced from the scrapings off the tea factory floor (according to a chap in a tea factory I spoke to on the subject).
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    Earl Grey tea is disgusting and insipid.

    The only way to make it more disgusting is to sprinkle chocolate on it.

    The only thing to do with it is pour it down the drain.

  • Totally and utterly off-topic:

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/oct/30/the-big-idea-has-the-digital-economy-killed-capitalism

    But an interesting view which I find hard to disagree with :open_mouth:
  • .

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    A more interesting stat would be, percentage of the cabinet who send/sent their own kids (if they had kids) to private school.

    Good call. We should have a law that any MP of a governing party should have to send their kids to the worst performing school in their constituency. See how they like that fecker!
    Only if they oppose choice and private education and free schools, religious schools and grammar schools etc. Otherwise there is no
    hypocrisy if they choose the above for their kids
    But they come up with the policies, dole out the funds and generally dick about with our kids education. By never sending their sprogs to crap state schools, they never have to face the consequences. Typical!
    The more choice parents
    have the more likely crap, inadequate rated schools will
    eventually close as failing
    unprofitable businesses eventually go bust via lack of demand for their products and services
    In the real world.....
    That is the real world, supply and demand
    How many under performing schools have closed?
    In the private sector underperforming private schools go bust and close. In the state sector underperforming state schools just tend to be made into academies. No reason if they still fail to perform and have collapsing rolls they cannot also be closed
    Thing is, the rolls don't collapse. Not entirely.

    If you want market pressures like that to apply, the government has to be willing to fund quite a lot of empty school capacity, enough that all the parents at Hellhole High can realistically send their children elsewhere. And nobody, whether on the left or the right, is willing to do that.

    What tends to happen is that the worst school in the town collects all the empty spaces but every other school (2nd worst and upwards) are full to their capacity. A half-empty school still has to operate, so it limps along, but it has to carry the overheads on a smaller income base, so it stays in a zombie doom loop, if such a thing is possible.

    (The way I'd like to reform academisation, even if it wouldn't work, would be to make it more like other forms of competitive tendering. Fixed term contracts, but with management organisations setting the cost in their bids. Partly because I believe in things costing what they cost, and also because turning round a difficult school in a struggling community is more expensive to do well than running a straightforward school or starting with a blank sheet.)
    Running public services at 99% capacity has been policy since the year dot. Many different governments.

    Operations Research theory states that organisations run at 99% of capacity are stressed, likely to fail, have massive staff retention problems, etc.
    Conculsion:

    As a society, we value cheapness (even if it's short term; staff retention is bloody expensive to fix once it becomes a problem because you have to overcorrect) and choice (even if it's illusory) over good.

    That's probably a bit too world-weary. But at the very least, we're stuck in a local optimum that is a long way from the best solution. And that kind of metastable state is very hard to move out of.
    "Quote Me Happy"

    I am reminded of a friend who spent a decade getting a 8 foot square piece of flat roof repeatedly repaired - sneaky water leak. Because he didn't want to be "silly" and spend the money on getting it replaced.

    In the end he had it completely replaced. After spending 5x the money over the years.
    A simple, cheap fix is always worth a try...once. If it fails after that, then it needs sorting properly.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    Somewhat to my surprise I have recently read 2 very good articles in the Morning Star - one was a book review. I am now getting the "you're reaching the limits of your free articles, would you like to subscribe" ads and I am mildly tempted. The NY Review of Books also has some very interesting articles.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,348
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    The New Stupidity of the Young is evidenced by these Palestinian marches, the poster-removers &c. When quizzed, so many of them have no idea why they’re marching or what exactly they’re protesting

    It’s just colonisers = evil, plus an intense desire not to stand out, to go along with the herd

    Young people attaching themselves to the latest cause is hardly new. The intellectual incuriosity and attitudinal herding of the coming generation IS new

    A recent Economist podcast is good on this, looking at the cultural wars aspect of Israel/Gaza.

    Many issues and this one in particular have become binary in nature, framed as the powerful vs the powerless in every domain. And someone powerful can never be discriminated against, while all struggles of the powerless are equal and a common cause, and hence "Queers for Palestine".

    Edit: https://www.economist.com/podcasts/2023/11/01/the-global-culture-war-about-gaza-blurs-the-usual-battle-lines
    It's also combined with the widespread belief that history is a journey from Eden to Hell, found on both right and left.

    There was a golden age when everyone enjoyed a well paid job, free higher education, families stayed together, public services were fine, and the environment was unspoiled. Which is then compared with the modern grimy reality.

    When this golden age existed would be hard to pinpoint, but lots of people believe that it did exist.
  • Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Just for @Leon.

    Daughter's cat -

    He will continue to be dogged by such posts.
    @Leon
    image
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    edited November 2023
    Leon said:

    The best possible tea is a mix of English Breakfast and Earl Grey. There is no dispute on this

    Of all the things Leon is wrong about (and they contain multitudes...) this is the most wrong he has ever been about anything, ever.

    There is no dispute on this
  • Totally and utterly off-topic:

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/oct/30/the-big-idea-has-the-digital-economy-killed-capitalism

    But an interesting view which I find hard to disagree with :open_mouth:

    Thanks, a really interesting read. I didn't clock the author until the end and was a bit surprised - I always thought he was a bit of a dick but this analysis is absolutely spot-on.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,586
    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    The best possible tea is a mix of English Breakfast and Earl Grey. There is no dispute on this

    Of all the tings Leon is wrong about (and they contain multitudes...) this is the most wrong he has ever been about anything, ever.

    There is no dispute on this
    You may as well try to brew pot pourri.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    edited November 2023
    For a bit of enjoyment, I've been reading Owen Jones' Twitter feed.

    ... and I think I've realised what annoys me so much about him. It is his absolute certainty. He has no doubts about his position; no hesitancy. He knows he is right and that he is occupying the highest of high moral grounds. Therefore anyone who differs from him even a little; the merest finger's width crack, is a target for his bile and (fairly poor) rhetoric. Arguments against his position can be ignored, because he is *right*.

    edit: I also think he's realised that when Labour win the next GE, he'll lose loads of followers if he becomes a party hack. So he wants to remain outside the tent, pi**ing in.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,348
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    The New Stupidity of the Young is evidenced by these Palestinian marches, the poster-removers &c. When quizzed, so many of them have no idea why they’re marching or what exactly they’re protesting

    It’s just colonisers = evil, plus an intense desire not to stand out, to go along with the herd

    Young people attaching themselves to the latest cause is hardly new. The intellectual incuriosity and attitudinal herding of the coming generation IS new

    A recent Economist podcast is good on this, looking at the cultural wars aspect of Israel/Gaza.

    Many issues and this one in particular have become binary in nature, framed as the powerful vs the powerless in every domain. And someone powerful can never be discriminated against, while all struggles of the powerless are equal and a common cause, and hence "Queers for Palestine".

    Edit: https://www.economist.com/podcasts/2023/11/01/the-global-culture-war-about-gaza-blurs-the-usual-battle-lines
    https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/TheTimes_IsraelPalestine_231102_W.pdf

    Even among the 18-24 year olds, only 37% say their sympathies lie mainly with Palestine. So, it's a big number, but also a minority.

    https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/TheTimes_IsraelPalestine_231102_W.pdf
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    For a bit of enjoyment, I've been reading Owen Jones' Twitter feed.

    ... and I think I've realised what annoys me so much about him. It is his absolute certainty. He has no doubts about his position; no hesitancy. He knows he is right and that he is occupying the highest of high moral grounds. Therefore anyone who differs from him even a little; the merest finger's width crack, is a target for his bile and (fairly poor) rhetoric. Arguments against his position can be ignored, because he is *right*.

    What name does he post under here?
  • No 10 unable to provide evidence to back up Braverman's claim that rough sleeping is 'lifestyle choice'

    Guardian live blog
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    A more interesting stat would be, percentage of the cabinet who send/sent their own kids (if they had kids) to private school.

    Good call. We should have a law that any MP of a governing party should have to send their kids to the worst performing school in their constituency. See how they like that fecker!
    Only if they oppose choice and private education and free schools, religious schools and grammar schools etc. Otherwise there is no
    hypocrisy if they choose the above for their kids
    But they come up with the policies, dole out the funds and generally dick about with our kids education. By never sending their sprogs to crap state schools, they never have to face the consequences. Typical!
    The more choice parents
    have the more likely crap, inadequate rated schools will
    eventually close as failing
    unprofitable businesses eventually go bust via lack of demand for their products and services
    In the real world.....
    That is the real world, supply and demand
    How many under performing schools have closed?
    In the private sector underperforming private schools go bust and close. In the state sector underperforming state schools just tend to be made into academies. No reason if they still fail to perform and have collapsing rolls they cannot also be closed
    Thing is, the rolls don't collapse. Not entirely.

    If you want market pressures like that to apply, the government has to be willing to fund quite a lot of empty school capacity, enough that all the parents at Hellhole High can realistically send their children elsewhere. And nobody, whether on the left or the right, is willing to do that.

    What tends to happen is that the worst school in the town collects all the empty spaces but every other school (2nd worst and upwards) are full to their capacity. A half-empty school still has to operate, so it limps along, but it has to carry the overheads on a smaller income base, so it stays in a zombie doom loop, if such a thing is possible.

    (The way I'd like to reform academisation, even if it wouldn't work, would be to make it more like other forms of competitive tendering. Fixed term contracts, but with management organisations setting the cost in their bids. Partly because I believe in things costing what they cost, and also because turning round a difficult school in a struggling community is more expensive to do well than running a straightforward school or starting with a blank sheet.)
    Running public services at 99% capacity has been policy since the year dot. Many different governments.

    Operations Research theory states that organisations run at 99% of capacity are stressed, likely to fail, have massive staff retention problems, etc.
    Conculsion:

    As a society, we value cheapness (even if it's short term; staff retention is bloody expensive to fix once it becomes a problem because you have to overcorrect) and choice (even if it's illusory) over good.

    That's probably a bit too world-weary. But at the very least, we're stuck in a local optimum that is a long way from the best solution. And that kind of metastable state is very hard to move out of.
    "Quote Me Happy"

    I am reminded of a friend who spent a decade getting a 8 foot square piece of flat roof repeatedly repaired - sneaky water leak. Because he didn't want to be "silly" and spend the money on getting it replaced.

    In the end he had it completely replaced. After spending 5x the money over the years.

    EDIT: It's a function of political pressure. Reduce "waste" and the organisation can kinda stagger on. At least as far as the next election.
    The "penny wise / pound foolish" / false economy approach is one of the biggest sins of the British state. The Post Office / Horizon cock up was pretty much baked in from the start. There were 11 scoring criteria for the initial bid. The Fujitsu bid came bottom in 8 out of the 11. But it was the cheapest. So it got chosen and everything went wrong from then on.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    edited November 2023
    Cyclefree said:

    Earl Grey tea is disgusting and insipid.

    The only way to make it more disgusting is to sprinkle chocolate on it.

    The only thing to do with it is pour it down the drain.

    Oddly enough, there's a new piece in the Graun lamenting the high prices for a plain ordinary cup of tea in such places as the British Museum and BL. Unless you are a member of Parliament, where it is 70p.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/nov/06/tea-prices-museum-cafe-britain-biscuits-high-street-chains
This discussion has been closed.