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Class warfare – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,826
    edited November 2023
    Er..300th.

    We've had a cat (Update: 57 cats, including I think 56 cardboard cutouts), so let's have a joyous collie dog.

    https://twitter.com/WorldBollard/status/1720449720311492636
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,164
    Scott_xP said:

    For a bit of enjoyment, I've been reading Owen Jones' Twitter feed.

    ... and I think I've realised what annoys me so much about him. It is his absolute certainty. He has no doubts about his position; no hesitancy. He knows he is right and that he is occupying the highest of high moral grounds. Therefore anyone who differs from him even a little; the merest finger's width crack, is a target for his bile and (fairly poor) rhetoric. Arguments against his position can be ignored, because he is *right*.

    What name does he post under here?
    Actually, I think PB is far better than that. Yes, we often give our positions firmly (cough) HS2 (/cough). But most of us, mot of the time, acknowledge there are different positions and views on things, even if we do not agree with them. Evidence is often presented and debated. Perhaps that's because this is nominally a betting site.

    The likes of OJ is not interested in debate. He's interested in *his* view, which is *right*.
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    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,162

    I have spent 10 minutes trying to work out how I reply to this question. Still not sure.


    Why would you like or dislike a party?

    They are just a thing.

    You might like or dislike the individuals or their policies. But the party?
  • Options

    Totally and utterly off-topic:

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/oct/30/the-big-idea-has-the-digital-economy-killed-capitalism

    But an interesting view which I find hard to disagree with :open_mouth:

    Thanks, a really interesting read. I didn't clock the author until the end and was a bit surprised - I always thought he was a bit of a dick but this analysis is absolutely spot-on.
    I knew who he was when I saw the author name at the top, so I did not expect much, but like you I was quite surprised. I think he is absolutely correct.

    As someone who has been using the internet from the pre-web days (back when you had to use WAIS, Usenet and Gopher) I had great hopes for it. Nowadays it is little better than a blocked sewer accumulating a vast quantity of cr*p through which we have to wade just to do everyday things.

    Bezos and his ilk do, sadly, perform a useful function in that if I cannot get something locally then Amazon will have it. But I do feel that every time I use Amazon, I am cutting the throat of a real-world business somewhere.
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    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    The best possible tea is a mix of English Breakfast and Earl Grey. There is no dispute on this

    Of all the things Leon is wrong about (and they contain multitudes...) this is the most wrong he has ever been about anything, ever.

    There is no dispute on this
    To follow up hating cats with this barely 24 hours later shows an ability to generate new wrong opinions at an impressive pace, though. Fair play to him.
  • Options

    For a bit of enjoyment, I've been reading Owen Jones' Twitter feed.

    ... and I think I've realised what annoys me so much about him. It is his absolute certainty. He has no doubts about his position; no hesitancy. He knows he is right and that he is occupying the highest of high moral grounds. Therefore anyone who differs from him even a little; the merest finger's width crack, is a target for his bile and (fairly poor) rhetoric. Arguments against his position can be ignored, because he is *right*.

    edit: I also think he's realised that when Labour win the next GE, he'll lose loads of followers if he becomes a party hack. So he wants to remain outside the tent, pi**ing in.

    Apropos of absolutely nothing.

    Owen’s a Sheffield lad.
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    CookieCookie Posts: 11,542
    Carnyx said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Earl Grey tea is disgusting and insipid.

    The only way to make it more disgusting is to sprinkle chocolate on it.

    The only thing to do with it is pour it down the drain.

    Oddly enough, there's a new piece in the Graun lamenting the high prices for a plain ordinary cup of tea in such places as the British Museum and BL. Unless you are a member of Parliament, where it is 70p.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/nov/06/tea-prices-museum-cafe-britain-biscuits-high-street-chains
    The comedian Dave Gorman did a really good piece on the move from a generation ago - when the choice was good cheap tea or bad expensive coffee - to now, when tastes for coffee have got more discerning and it is possible to get a good, but expensive, cup of coffee, but as a side effect of which the cost of a cup of tea has also got more expensive, and also less reliable - so now we have a choice of good but expensive coffee or bad but expensive tea.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,012

    No 10 unable to provide evidence to back up Braverman's claim that rough sleeping is 'lifestyle choice'

    Guardian live blog

    It's a combination of bad luck and bad choices, but that's not a lifestyle choice.
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    Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    edited November 2023

    I have spent 10 minutes trying to work out how I reply to this question. Still not sure.


    Why would you like or dislike a party?

    They are just a thing.

    You might like or dislike the individuals or their policies. But the party?
    Perhaps it should be viewed as a shorthand for a whole group so that you do not have to list a few hundred of them individually :wink:
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    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,437

    I have spent 10 minutes trying to work out how I reply to this question. Still not sure.


    Why would you like or dislike a party?

    They are just a thing.

    You might like or dislike the individuals or their policies. But the party?
    And yet to many support for a party is not a rational decision, its more akin to football supporting. As in 'this family have always been labour, and always will be' and 'The family of X will always vote Tory' etc
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    MattW said:

    Er..300th.

    We've had a cat, so let's have a joyous collie dog.

    https://twitter.com/WorldBollard/status/1720449720311492636

    I love this. We don't have a dog because we don't have the time and space a collie would need and I have zero interest in having any other kind of dog. They really are the most brilliant creatures.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,437
    Cookie said:

    Carnyx said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Earl Grey tea is disgusting and insipid.

    The only way to make it more disgusting is to sprinkle chocolate on it.

    The only thing to do with it is pour it down the drain.

    Oddly enough, there's a new piece in the Graun lamenting the high prices for a plain ordinary cup of tea in such places as the British Museum and BL. Unless you are a member of Parliament, where it is 70p.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/nov/06/tea-prices-museum-cafe-britain-biscuits-high-street-chains
    The comedian Dave Gorman did a really good piece on the move from a generation ago - when the choice was good cheap tea or bad expensive coffee - to now, when tastes for coffee have got more discerning and it is possible to get a good, but expensive, cup of coffee, but as a side effect of which the cost of a cup of tea has also got more expensive, and also less reliable - so now we have a choice of good but expensive coffee or bad but expensive tea.
    One issue with tea is the use of coffee making equipment not providing hot enough water. Plus time, Tea should brew for a period.
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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,064
    edited November 2023
    Nick Palmer - I wasn't suggesting Labour's front bench team was useless just a bit irrelevant. On checking it I'd forgotten half of them were there. Perhaps they'll be fine. But it feels a bit like the approach of the Queen Mother 'Say nothing.'

    The public realm is basically crumbling. No-one has really looked at paying for services in a different way so the only option is substantial tax rises. £70bn/3% GDP would be enough to make some difference. Income tax will need to go up, personally I'd cut NI aswell so it was something like 24%/10% though that will cause real annoyance among pensioners. Those working over retirement age should continue paying NI even at a reduced rate if necessary. I'd increase council tax particularly on the highest value homes. There's probably a few other things that could be done too.

    Will the current planned tax rises make much difference? Labour will be reluctant to act of course for fear of frightening the horses.
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    BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,469
    Cyclefree said:

    Earl Grey tea is disgusting and insipid.

    The only way to make it more disgusting is to sprinkle chocolate on it.

    The only thing to do with it is pour it down the drain.

    Ah. I have had Earl Grey explained to me by someone who worked in the business.

    Apparently the problem is most suppliers overdo the bergamot and don't have enough actual tea in the mix. It should not be prepared as if its a herbal tea.

    He recommended Ringtons, and despised Twinings.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,995

    Totally and utterly off-topic:

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/oct/30/the-big-idea-has-the-digital-economy-killed-capitalism

    But an interesting view which I find hard to disagree with :open_mouth:

    Thanks, a really interesting read. I didn't clock the author until the end and was a bit surprised - I always thought he was a bit of a dick but this analysis is absolutely spot-on.
    Except that operating a monopoly is part of the essence of capitalism, not the end of it.
    Efficient markets always require intervention (usually by the state) to maintain them.

    We just haven't yet worked out how to address the new digital monopolies.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,917
    Cookie said:

    Carnyx said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Earl Grey tea is disgusting and insipid.

    The only way to make it more disgusting is to sprinkle chocolate on it.

    The only thing to do with it is pour it down the drain.

    Oddly enough, there's a new piece in the Graun lamenting the high prices for a plain ordinary cup of tea in such places as the British Museum and BL. Unless you are a member of Parliament, where it is 70p.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/nov/06/tea-prices-museum-cafe-britain-biscuits-high-street-chains
    The comedian Dave Gorman did a really good piece on the move from a generation ago - when the choice was good cheap tea or bad expensive coffee - to now, when tastes for coffee have got more discerning and it is possible to get a good, but expensive, cup of coffee, but as a side effect of which the cost of a cup of tea has also got more expensive, and also less reliable - so now we have a choice of good but expensive coffee or bad but expensive tea.
    Neither has expensive ingredients, what you are paying for is rental of a table and chair for half an hour or so, and that can be expensive.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,826

    MattW said:

    Er..300th.

    We've had a cat, so let's have a joyous collie dog.

    https://twitter.com/WorldBollard/status/1720449720311492636

    I love this. We don't have a dog because we don't have the time and space a collie would need and I have zero interest in having any other kind of dog. They really are the most brilliant creatures.
    Not just Collies. Corgis as well.

    https://twitter.com/WorldBollard/status/1715032550429605889
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    eekeek Posts: 25,065

    Cyclefree said:

    Earl Grey tea is disgusting and insipid.

    The only way to make it more disgusting is to sprinkle chocolate on it.

    The only thing to do with it is pour it down the drain.

    Ah. I have had Earl Grey explained to me by someone who worked in the business.

    Apparently the problem is most suppliers overdo the bergamot and don't have enough actual tea in the mix. It should not be prepared as if its a herbal tea.

    He recommended Ringtons, and despised Twinings.
    For those that don't know Ringtons. - it's a northern firm that still sells door to door.

    Their Ginger Biscuits are great...
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    eekeek Posts: 25,065
    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:

    Carnyx said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Earl Grey tea is disgusting and insipid.

    The only way to make it more disgusting is to sprinkle chocolate on it.

    The only thing to do with it is pour it down the drain.

    Oddly enough, there's a new piece in the Graun lamenting the high prices for a plain ordinary cup of tea in such places as the British Museum and BL. Unless you are a member of Parliament, where it is 70p.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/nov/06/tea-prices-museum-cafe-britain-biscuits-high-street-chains
    The comedian Dave Gorman did a really good piece on the move from a generation ago - when the choice was good cheap tea or bad expensive coffee - to now, when tastes for coffee have got more discerning and it is possible to get a good, but expensive, cup of coffee, but as a side effect of which the cost of a cup of tea has also got more expensive, and also less reliable - so now we have a choice of good but expensive coffee or bad but expensive tea.
    Neither has expensive ingredients, what you are paying for is rental of a table and chair for half an hour or so, and that can be expensive.
    If you are up North, Newcastle these people do great tea https://www.claremontteahouse.com/
  • Options

    I have spent 10 minutes trying to work out how I reply to this question. Still not sure.


    Why would you like or dislike a party?

    They are just a thing.

    You might like or dislike the individuals or their policies. But the party?
    Not sure I really understand the distinction you're seeking to make between disliking leading individuals within a party and the policies of the party on the one hand, and disliking the party on the other. They seem to me to be essentially the same thing.
  • Options
    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:

    Carnyx said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Earl Grey tea is disgusting and insipid.

    The only way to make it more disgusting is to sprinkle chocolate on it.

    The only thing to do with it is pour it down the drain.

    Oddly enough, there's a new piece in the Graun lamenting the high prices for a plain ordinary cup of tea in such places as the British Museum and BL. Unless you are a member of Parliament, where it is 70p.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/nov/06/tea-prices-museum-cafe-britain-biscuits-high-street-chains
    The comedian Dave Gorman did a really good piece on the move from a generation ago - when the choice was good cheap tea or bad expensive coffee - to now, when tastes for coffee have got more discerning and it is possible to get a good, but expensive, cup of coffee, but as a side effect of which the cost of a cup of tea has also got more expensive, and also less reliable - so now we have a choice of good but expensive coffee or bad but expensive tea.
    Neither has expensive ingredients, what you are paying for is rental of a table and chair for half an hour or so, and that can be expensive.
    On the latter, you are also - indirectly - paying for the company you keep in the cafe. £4 teas do not attract lower income consumers.
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    BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,469
    carnforth said:

    Welsh public opinion towards Mark Drakeford as First Minister:

    Approve: 30% (-6)
    Disapprove: 44% (+9)

    via @RedfieldWilton
    Chgs. w/ May

    Can someone with an interest in Welsh politics explain this trend? Not just 20mph speed limits surely? A few weeks ago I saw a report which actually had the Welsh Tory leader with a higher approval rating than Drakeford which really surprised me.
  • Options

    Totally and utterly off-topic:

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/oct/30/the-big-idea-has-the-digital-economy-killed-capitalism

    But an interesting view which I find hard to disagree with :open_mouth:

    Thanks, a really interesting read. I didn't clock the author until the end and was a bit surprised - I always thought he was a bit of a dick but this analysis is absolutely spot-on.
    It is actually the argument Joel Kotkin and others of a similar ilk have been raising for a few years of the rise of neo-feudalism.
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    CookieCookie Posts: 11,542
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Er..300th.

    We've had a cat, so let's have a joyous collie dog.

    https://twitter.com/WorldBollard/status/1720449720311492636

    I love this. We don't have a dog because we don't have the time and space a collie would need and I have zero interest in having any other kind of dog. They really are the most brilliant creatures.
    Not just Collies. Corgis as well.

    https://twitter.com/WorldBollard/status/1715032550429605889
    THIS is what Twitter is for.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,249

    For a bit of enjoyment, I've been reading Owen Jones' Twitter feed.

    ... and I think I've realised what annoys me so much about him. It is his absolute certainty. He has no doubts about his position; no hesitancy. He knows he is right and that he is occupying the highest of high moral grounds. Therefore anyone who differs from him even a little; the merest finger's width crack, is a target for his bile and (fairly poor) rhetoric. Arguments against his position can be ignored, because he is *right*.

    edit: I also think he's realised that when Labour win the next GE, he'll lose loads of followers if he becomes a party hack. So he wants to remain outside the tent, pi**ing in.

    He is well described here in the last 7 words -

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity."
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    148grss148grss Posts: 3,796
    Sean_F said:

    No 10 unable to provide evidence to back up Braverman's claim that rough sleeping is 'lifestyle choice'

    Guardian live blog

    It's a combination of bad luck and bad choices, but that's not a lifestyle choice.
    It's typically a "one bad day away" scenario that spirals out of control - if you can't pay the rent, you can't hold down a job, if you can't hold down a job you have no access to money. If you have nowhere to live the state often refuses to make it easy to access benefits, or puts strings on the benefits that essentially require having a home.

    In Canada, when they did this trial, they found it was cheaper to just give a no strings attached $1,000 and it had better outcomes than other programmes:

    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/09/americas/direct-giving-homeless-people-vancouver-trnd/index.html#:~:text=People who received cash were,like alcohol, cigarettes or drugs.

    In lockdown we managed to eliminated houselessness. Which kind of points to the fact that it is a policy choice to let people be without a home.
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    theakestheakes Posts: 844
    Have two grandchildren who since going into the private sector have blossomed and come on leaps and bounds. However their middle class parents struggle to meet their financial commitment, forgoing holidays, outings etc etc in order to do so and we help, such a financing our grand=daughters French class school week in Brittany earlier this year.
    Now for the crux of this submission, have emailed Starmer 3 times over the last 2 months about this and received only one holding response from one of his office underlings. It smacks to me of either ignorance or arrogance. My next communication will be private and confidential registered/recorded mail both to him and probably the Independent. His non response is very disappointing to say the least.
  • Options
    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    A more interesting stat would be, percentage of the cabinet who send/sent their own kids (if they had kids) to private school.

    Good call. We should have a law that any MP of a governing party should have to send their kids to the worst performing school in their constituency. See how they like that fecker!
    Only if they oppose choice and private education and free schools, religious schools and grammar schools etc. Otherwise there is no
    hypocrisy if they choose the above for their kids
    But they come up with the policies, dole out the funds and generally dick about with our kids education. By never sending their sprogs to crap state schools, they never have to face the consequences. Typical!
    The more choice parents
    have the more likely crap, inadequate rated schools will
    eventually close as failing
    unprofitable businesses eventually go bust via lack of demand for their products and services
    In the real world.....
    That is the real world, supply and demand
    How many under performing schools have closed?
    In the private sector underperforming private schools go bust and close. In the state sector underperforming state schools just tend to be made into academies. No reason if they still fail to perform and have collapsing rolls they cannot also be closed
    Thing is, the rolls don't collapse. Not entirely.

    If you want market pressures like that to apply, the government has to be willing to fund quite a lot of empty school capacity, enough that all the parents at Hellhole High can realistically send their children elsewhere. And nobody, whether on the left or the right, is willing to do that.

    What tends to happen is that the worst school in the town collects all the empty spaces but every other school (2nd worst and upwards) are full to their capacity. A half-empty school still has to operate, so it limps along, but it has to carry the overheads on a smaller income base, so it stays in a zombie doom loop, if such a thing is possible.

    (The way I'd like to reform academisation, even if it wouldn't work, would be to make it more like other forms of competitive tendering. Fixed term contracts, but with management organisations setting the cost in their bids. Partly because I believe in things costing what they cost, and also because turning round a difficult school in a struggling community is more expensive to do well than running a straightforward school or starting with a blank sheet.)
    Running public services at 99% capacity has been policy since the year dot. Many different governments.

    Operations Research theory states that organisations run at 99% of capacity are stressed, likely to fail, have massive staff retention problems, etc.
    Conculsion:

    As a society, we value cheapness (even if it's short term; staff retention is bloody expensive to fix once it becomes a problem because you have to overcorrect) and choice (even if it's illusory) over good.

    That's probably a bit too world-weary. But at the very least, we're stuck in a local optimum that is a long way from the best solution. And that kind of metastable state is very hard to move out of.
    "Quote Me Happy"

    I am reminded of a friend who spent a decade getting a 8 foot square piece of flat roof repeatedly repaired - sneaky water leak. Because he didn't want to be "silly" and spend the money on getting it replaced.

    In the end he had it completely replaced. After spending 5x the money over the years.

    EDIT: It's a function of political pressure. Reduce "waste" and the organisation can kinda stagger on. At least as far as the next election.
    The "penny wise / pound foolish" / false economy approach is one of the biggest sins of the British state. The Post Office / Horizon cock up was pretty much baked in from the start. There were 11 scoring criteria for the initial bid. The Fujitsu bid came bottom in 8 out of the 11. But it was the cheapest. So it got chosen and everything went wrong from then on.
    Not just the state though; it's a manifestation of something not good about the British psyche. Nearest I can get is that we convince ourselves we should have things that we can't really afford, and square the circle by overdoing the shoddy bit of the specification.

    (And yes, some of this is fallen human nature, but there's more of it in the UK than elsewhere, I reckon. Go to Spain, say, and there's a better balance of things done frugally but properly, because it's cheaper in all but the shortest term.)
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,682
    The cats have been sick

    Twice

    I suspect they are reading PB
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    MattWMattW Posts: 18,826
    eek said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Earl Grey tea is disgusting and insipid.

    The only way to make it more disgusting is to sprinkle chocolate on it.

    The only thing to do with it is pour it down the drain.

    Ah. I have had Earl Grey explained to me by someone who worked in the business.

    Apparently the problem is most suppliers overdo the bergamot and don't have enough actual tea in the mix. It should not be prepared as if its a herbal tea.

    He recommended Ringtons, and despised Twinings.
    For those that don't know Ringtons. - it's a northern firm that still sells door to door.

    Their Ginger Biscuits are great...
    All the best things come from the North, as we know.

    Including from the Northern Tea Company of Chatsworth Road, Chesterfield. That's where I get my coffee beans from - they have about two dozen varieties and roast about a ton a week onsite so it is always fresh.

    And .. tea:
    https://www.northern-tea.com/shop/tea/
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,249
    Why would anyone pay for a cup of tea outside the house? Do they not have flasks?
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    148grss148grss Posts: 3,796
    theakes said:

    Have two grandchildren who since going into the private sector have blossomed and come on leaps and bounds. However their middle class parents struggle to meet their financial commitment, forgoing holidays, outings etc etc in order to do so and we help, such a financing our grand=daughters French class school week in Brittany earlier this year.
    Now for the crux of this submission, have emailed Starmer 3 times over the last 2 months about this and received only one holding response from one of his office underlings. It smacks to me of either ignorance or arrogance. My next communication will be private and confidential registered/recorded mail both to him and probably the Independent. His non response is very disappointing to say the least.

    Why should the policy to be "we should still allow people who can just about afford private schools to still afford private schools" and not be "we should make all public schools as well funded and resourced as private schools, and if that means taxing wealthier people more; so be it"?
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,109
    Cookie said:

    Carnyx said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Earl Grey tea is disgusting and insipid.

    The only way to make it more disgusting is to sprinkle chocolate on it.

    The only thing to do with it is pour it down the drain.

    Oddly enough, there's a new piece in the Graun lamenting the high prices for a plain ordinary cup of tea in such places as the British Museum and BL. Unless you are a member of Parliament, where it is 70p.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/nov/06/tea-prices-museum-cafe-britain-biscuits-high-street-chains
    The comedian Dave Gorman did a really good piece on the move from a generation ago - when the choice was good cheap tea or bad expensive coffee - to now, when tastes for coffee have got more discerning and it is possible to get a good, but expensive, cup of coffee, but as a side effect of which the cost of a cup of tea has also got more expensive, and also less reliable - so now we have a choice of good but expensive coffee or bad but expensive tea.
    I think tbh we've moved from good cheap tea in a mug and pot and bad cheap coffee in a mug, to crap murderously expensive posh coffee which nobody understands just because the entire country pretends to be in "Friends" in the perpetual American cosplay Britain has adopted... and crap expensive tea because we've forgotten to drink tea.

    Pause

    Fuck I hate the 2020's. Nothing works, the houses are shit and expensive, NHS dentists are unicorns and now with extra antisemitism.
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    CookieCookie Posts: 11,542

    For a bit of enjoyment, I've been reading Owen Jones' Twitter feed.

    ... and I think I've realised what annoys me so much about him. It is his absolute certainty. He has no doubts about his position; no hesitancy. He knows he is right and that he is occupying the highest of high moral grounds. Therefore anyone who differs from him even a little; the merest finger's width crack, is a target for his bile and (fairly poor) rhetoric. Arguments against his position can be ignored, because he is *right*.

    edit: I also think he's realised that when Labour win the next GE, he'll lose loads of followers if he becomes a party hack. So he wants to remain outside the tent, pi**ing in.

    Apropos of absolutely nothing.

    Owen’s a Sheffield lad.
    I thought he came from Bramhall?
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,065
    Well, that tea discussion was gripping. Less boomer Facebook shit please.

    Swella must be praying (though not in the direction of the kibla) that it all kicks off between the old bill, the shaheeds, and the Statchoo Defence League on War Christmas this weekend.

    That would allow her to stoke the conflict between confessional blocs up to Lebanese Civil War levels, indulge her incipient authoritarianism and further burnish her campaign to be LotO.
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    Cookie said:

    For a bit of enjoyment, I've been reading Owen Jones' Twitter feed.

    ... and I think I've realised what annoys me so much about him. It is his absolute certainty. He has no doubts about his position; no hesitancy. He knows he is right and that he is occupying the highest of high moral grounds. Therefore anyone who differs from him even a little; the merest finger's width crack, is a target for his bile and (fairly poor) rhetoric. Arguments against his position can be ignored, because he is *right*.

    edit: I also think he's realised that when Labour win the next GE, he'll lose loads of followers if he becomes a party hack. So he wants to remain outside the tent, pi**ing in.

    Apropos of absolutely nothing.

    Owen’s a Sheffield lad.
    I thought he came from Bramhall?
    Born in Sheffield.
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    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Looks like 40.1.1 in the cricket needs something like a 40.1.1.1 sub rule relating to equipment malfunction & player safety inserted. I'd normally say all's fair within the rules, but poor from Bangladesh to appeal that tbh.

    It’s like the Bairstow dismissal. In the laws but against the spirit of cricket.
    This one isn't really comparable to Bairstow's. That was dozy play by Bairstow and sharp by Carey. I've not watched the dismissal but (I think ?) the strap broke while he was walking out I think ? This is about player safety.
    If that was the case, then surely it's a matter of safety?
    Yep - I edited the post to mention that.
    No similarity with Bairstow at all. He just made a mistake and Carey exploited it legitimately. Here we have an equipment malfunction.

    Matthews could and should have played a ball without his helmet or with the strap hanging, so he did contribute to his own demise, but I think the umpires were wrong to say he wasn't ready to face, and BD should have withdrawn the appeal to rectify an absurd outcome.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,109

    Totally and utterly off-topic:

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/oct/30/the-big-idea-has-the-digital-economy-killed-capitalism

    But an interesting view which I find hard to disagree with :open_mouth:

    Thanks, a really interesting read. I didn't clock the author until the end and was a bit surprised - I always thought he was a bit of a dick but this analysis is absolutely spot-on.
    It is actually the argument Joel Kotkin and others of a similar ilk have been raising for a few years of the rise of neo-feudalism.
    Indeed. A massive failure in modern politics is to realise that neo-feudalism and technofeudalism are the same thing. Humanity is being held back by a Wikipedia edit war

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Neo-feudalism
  • Options
    theProletheProle Posts: 950
    https://www-bbc-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67332093.amp?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQGsAEggAID#amp_tf=From %1$s&aoh=16992677245572&csi=0&referrer=https://www.google.com

    Looks like the end of real steel production at Scunthorpe - blast furnaces being replaced with electric arc furnaces.

    The BBC article glosses over the massive issue: "The government conceded that the plan to close the blast furnaces at Scunthorpe and Port Talbot will leave the UK without the ability to make "virgin steel".

    But it insisted that there were limited domestic cases where that kind of steel was needed, and that the output from electric arc furnaces covered most of the UK's needs."

    Electric arc furnaces don't actually make steel. All they do is remelt existing steel scrap. The trouble is that steel scrap always has some level of contamination - bits of copper, aluminium etc. When this is melted, it ends up in the steel. It's possible to tolerate a bit of this, but as steel going through it's life cycle is scrapped and remelted time and time again, the level on contamination gets higher and higher. 0.1% being something unwanted can be enough to completely alter a steel's characteristics.

    What this means is that, as Port Talbot and Scunthorpe go the same way, the UK will be unable to manufacture quality engineering steel any more. This is a massive problem.

    Exporting all our quality steel production to the Chinese isn't a clever option. You already can't believe a word written on a Chinese material certificate, so if you're foolish enough to try and use Chinese engineering steel for anything important you have to get literally every single peice sampled and tested by a UK test house. That's impractical and expensive, which is why in my industry (if the stuff I made breaks, people probably die) we will only use European material.

    So that's most serious engineering sectors in the UK stuffed (aerospace, defence, nuclear - even renewables need decent quality steel). And it's no good assuming we'll buy off the Germans or the Spanish (which is where a lot of the quality stuff comes from now) as presumably their governments are rushing off down the same stupid rabbit hole.

    I've nothing against decarbonisation (I'm trying to sort out a government grant at the moment to replace some of the tones of LPG my firm burns every year with electric induction heating), but we really shouldn't be destroying our industrial capabilities for the sake of net zero - it's moronic.
  • Options
    MattW said:

    eek said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Earl Grey tea is disgusting and insipid.

    The only way to make it more disgusting is to sprinkle chocolate on it.

    The only thing to do with it is pour it down the drain.

    Ah. I have had Earl Grey explained to me by someone who worked in the business.

    Apparently the problem is most suppliers overdo the bergamot and don't have enough actual tea in the mix. It should not be prepared as if its a herbal tea.

    He recommended Ringtons, and despised Twinings.
    For those that don't know Ringtons. - it's a northern firm that still sells door to door.

    Their Ginger Biscuits are great...
    All the best things come from the North, as we know.

    Including from the Northern Tea Company of Chatsworth Road, Chesterfield. That's where I get my coffee beans from - they have about two dozen varieties and roast about a ton a week onsite so it is always fresh.

    And .. tea:
    https://www.northern-tea.com/shop/tea/
    Not cheap! £37.26 to have a kilo of Brazilian Santos shipped to me. That is a serious rip-off for a basic coffee that costs £3.80 wholesale. There are many cheaper micro-roasters out there.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,826
    edited November 2023
    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Er..300th.

    We've had a cat, so let's have a joyous collie dog.

    https://twitter.com/WorldBollard/status/1720449720311492636

    I love this. We don't have a dog because we don't have the time and space a collie would need and I have zero interest in having any other kind of dog. They really are the most brilliant creatures.
    Not just Collies. Corgis as well.

    https://twitter.com/WorldBollard/status/1715032550429605889
    THIS is what Twitter is for.
    I won't spam PB too much with the World Bollard Association, BUT ...

    The World’s Number One Superhero…BOLLARDMAN. Saving the planet, one BMW at a time.

    https://twitter.com/WorldBollard/status/1716087520138592453

    Titanic & Bollard 1912.
    Bollard 2023.


    https://twitter.com/WorldBollard/status/1715429964256850318

    (Enough for now ... you know where to look.)
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,109
    theProle said:

    https://www-bbc-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67332093.amp?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQGsAEggAID#amp_tf=From %1$s&aoh=16992677245572&csi=0&referrer=https://www.google.com

    Looks like the end of real steel production at Scunthorpe - blast furnaces being replaced with electric arc furnaces.

    The BBC article glosses over the massive issue: "The government conceded that the plan to close the blast furnaces at Scunthorpe and Port Talbot will leave the UK without the ability to make "virgin steel".

    But it insisted that there were limited domestic cases where that kind of steel was needed, and that the output from electric arc furnaces covered most of the UK's needs."

    Electric arc furnaces don't actually make steel. All they do is remelt existing steel scrap. The trouble is that steel scrap always has some level of contamination - bits of copper, aluminium etc. When this is melted, it ends up in the steel. It's possible to tolerate a bit of this, but as steel going through it's life cycle is scrapped and remelted time and time again, the level on contamination gets higher and higher. 0.1% being something unwanted can be enough to completely alter a steel's characteristics.

    What this means is that, as Port Talbot and Scunthorpe go the same way, the UK will be unable to manufacture quality engineering steel any more. This is a massive problem.

    Exporting all our quality steel production to the Chinese isn't a clever option. You already can't believe a word written on a Chinese material certificate, so if you're foolish enough to try and use Chinese engineering steel for anything important you have to get literally every single peice sampled and tested by a UK test house. That's impractical and expensive, which is why in my industry (if the stuff I made breaks, people probably die) we will only use European material.

    So that's most serious engineering sectors in the UK stuffed (aerospace, defence, nuclear - even renewables need decent quality steel). And it's no good assuming we'll buy off the Germans or the Spanish (which is where a lot of the quality stuff comes from now) as presumably their governments are rushing off down the same stupid rabbit hole.

    I've nothing against decarbonisation (I'm trying to sort out a government grant at the moment to replace some of the tones of LPG my firm burns every year with electric induction heating), but we really shouldn't be destroying our industrial capabilities for the sake of net zero - it's moronic.

    Oh flip. We are really going to have to start dropping nukes on Parliament. They are *deliberately* attacking us now.
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,542

    Cookie said:

    For a bit of enjoyment, I've been reading Owen Jones' Twitter feed.

    ... and I think I've realised what annoys me so much about him. It is his absolute certainty. He has no doubts about his position; no hesitancy. He knows he is right and that he is occupying the highest of high moral grounds. Therefore anyone who differs from him even a little; the merest finger's width crack, is a target for his bile and (fairly poor) rhetoric. Arguments against his position can be ignored, because he is *right*.

    edit: I also think he's realised that when Labour win the next GE, he'll lose loads of followers if he becomes a party hack. So he wants to remain outside the tent, pi**ing in.

    Apropos of absolutely nothing.

    Owen’s a Sheffield lad.
    I thought he came from Bramhall?
    Born in Sheffield.
    Ah, yes, just looked him up. Then went to school in Bramhall. And briefly, Falkirk.

    His Wikipedia page also has a photo of him sporting the most punchable face I have seen since Piers Morgan last took up space on my telly.
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,064
    edited November 2023
    I object to VAT on private schools. I don't think you should have VAT on education. It's not a consumer good like a television. Charitable status is a little different. Should Eton be entitled to it? Should Stonewall for that matter?
  • Options
    theakes said:

    Have two grandchildren who since going into the private sector have blossomed and come on leaps and bounds. However their middle class parents struggle to meet their financial commitment, forgoing holidays, outings etc etc in order to do so and we help, such a financing our grand=daughters French class school week in Brittany earlier this year.
    Now for the crux of this submission, have emailed Starmer 3 times over the last 2 months about this and received only one holding response from one of his office underlings. It smacks to me of either ignorance or arrogance. My next communication will be private and confidential registered/recorded mail both to him and probably the Independent. His non response is very disappointing to say the least.

    Seriously, what do you expect? Even if it were possible for national political leaders to respond to every email, tweet or DM sent their way, once word got out, it would become impossible. It is not as if he does not already know adding VAT will likely put prices up, with or without weeks in France.
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,961
    theakes said:

    Have two grandchildren who since going into the private sector have blossomed and come on leaps and bounds. However their middle class parents struggle to meet their financial commitment, forgoing holidays, outings etc etc in order to do so and we help, such a financing our grand=daughters French class school week in Brittany earlier this year.
    Now for the crux of this submission, have emailed Starmer 3 times over the last 2 months about this and received only one holding response from one of his office underlings. It smacks to me of either ignorance or arrogance. My next communication will be private and confidential registered/recorded mail both to him and probably the Independent. His non response is very disappointing to say the least.

    Is it a party leader’s job to answer correspondence from everyone in the country? Write to your local Labour Party, or to your MP.
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,064
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    For a bit of enjoyment, I've been reading Owen Jones' Twitter feed.

    ... and I think I've realised what annoys me so much about him. It is his absolute certainty. He has no doubts about his position; no hesitancy. He knows he is right and that he is occupying the highest of high moral grounds. Therefore anyone who differs from him even a little; the merest finger's width crack, is a target for his bile and (fairly poor) rhetoric. Arguments against his position can be ignored, because he is *right*.

    edit: I also think he's realised that when Labour win the next GE, he'll lose loads of followers if he becomes a party hack. So he wants to remain outside the tent, pi**ing in.

    Apropos of absolutely nothing.

    Owen’s a Sheffield lad.
    I thought he came from Bramhall?
    Born in Sheffield.
    Ah, yes, just looked him up. Then went to school in Bramhall. And briefly, Falkirk.

    His Wikipedia page also has a photo of him sporting the most punchable face I have seen since Piers Morgan last took up space on my telly.
    I understood he came from a long line of Welsh nationalists. His parents rebelled and joined the SWP. The end result was Owen.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,682
    Dura_Ace said:

    Well, that tea discussion was gripping. Less boomer Facebook shit please.

    Swella must be praying (though not in the direction of the kibla) that it all kicks off between the old bill, the shaheeds, and the Statchoo Defence League on War Christmas this weekend.

    That would allow her to stoke the conflict between confessional blocs up to Lebanese Civil War levels, indulge her incipient authoritarianism and further burnish her campaign to be LotO.

    The tea conversation could be lifted straight from your favourite hilarious sitcom “One Foot in the Grave” which you watch daily, so I’m confused why you haven’t enjoyed it
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,437

    theakes said:

    Have two grandchildren who since going into the private sector have blossomed and come on leaps and bounds. However their middle class parents struggle to meet their financial commitment, forgoing holidays, outings etc etc in order to do so and we help, such a financing our grand=daughters French class school week in Brittany earlier this year.
    Now for the crux of this submission, have emailed Starmer 3 times over the last 2 months about this and received only one holding response from one of his office underlings. It smacks to me of either ignorance or arrogance. My next communication will be private and confidential registered/recorded mail both to him and probably the Independent. His non response is very disappointing to say the least.

    Is it a party leader’s job to answer correspondence from everyone in the country? Write to your local Labour Party, or to your MP.
    Well quite. County of 67 million plus or minus - are we all entitled to expect the leader of the opposition to reply to our emails? I struggle to reply to mine most days and I only get around 100.
  • Options
    148grss148grss Posts: 3,796

    I object to VAT on private schools. I don't think you should have VAT on education. It's not a consumer good like a television. Charitable status is a little different. Should Eton be entitled to it? Should Stonewall for that matter?

    You're right, "education is not a consumer good like a television" and therefore there shouldn't be private schools and all public schools should be funded and resourced to such a degree that they are all providing a good quality education and experience of the world, and that isn't only reserved for the richest amongst us. I'm glad we agree :smile:
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,682
    edited November 2023
    On the upside, I am here




  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,719
    Carnyx said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Earl Grey tea is disgusting and insipid.

    The only way to make it more disgusting is to sprinkle chocolate on it.

    The only thing to do with it is pour it down the drain.

    Oddly enough, there's a new piece in the Graun lamenting the high prices for a plain ordinary cup of tea in such places as the British Museum and BL. Unless you are a member of Parliament, where it is 70p.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/nov/06/tea-prices-museum-cafe-britain-biscuits-high-street-chains
    One thing the Guardian has trouble with, it seems, is that

    1) You pay rent on a shop space
    2) You pay taxes on a business
    3) You need to pay employees money*.
    4) You need to pay for utilities

    The actual cup of tea/coffee is almost thrown in as a gift

    *Doing a deal with the Libyan Coastguard for free baristas, maybe?
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,826

    MattW said:

    eek said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Earl Grey tea is disgusting and insipid.

    The only way to make it more disgusting is to sprinkle chocolate on it.

    The only thing to do with it is pour it down the drain.

    Ah. I have had Earl Grey explained to me by someone who worked in the business.

    Apparently the problem is most suppliers overdo the bergamot and don't have enough actual tea in the mix. It should not be prepared as if its a herbal tea.

    He recommended Ringtons, and despised Twinings.
    For those that don't know Ringtons. - it's a northern firm that still sells door to door.

    Their Ginger Biscuits are great...
    All the best things come from the North, as we know.

    Including from the Northern Tea Company of Chatsworth Road, Chesterfield. That's where I get my coffee beans from - they have about two dozen varieties and roast about a ton a week onsite so it is always fresh.

    And .. tea:
    https://www.northern-tea.com/shop/tea/
    Not cheap! £37.26 to have a kilo of Brazilian Santos shipped to me. That is a serious rip-off for a basic coffee that costs £3.80 wholesale. There are many cheaper micro-roasters out there.
    Interesting comparison - I've not been for a year or so during illness. I'll have a look around. I've always found them fairly competitive.

    For me it's a nice 15 mile cross-country cycle each way, and they do a nice light lunch in the middle. So I tend to get 125g of everything to last me about 4 months.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,012
    148grss said:

    Sean_F said:

    No 10 unable to provide evidence to back up Braverman's claim that rough sleeping is 'lifestyle choice'

    Guardian live blog

    It's a combination of bad luck and bad choices, but that's not a lifestyle choice.
    It's typically a "one bad day away" scenario that spirals out of control - if you can't pay the rent, you can't hold down a job, if you can't hold down a job you have no access to money. If you have nowhere to live the state often refuses to make it easy to access benefits, or puts strings on the benefits that essentially require having a home.

    In Canada, when they did this trial, they found it was cheaper to just give a no strings attached $1,000 and it had better outcomes than other programmes:

    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/09/americas/direct-giving-homeless-people-vancouver-trnd/index.html#:~:text=People who received cash were,like alcohol, cigarettes or drugs.

    In lockdown we managed to eliminated houselessness. Which kind of points to the fact that it is a policy choice to let people be without a home.
    The cost of pursuing such policies would be ruinous, and only to be done during a national emergency.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,719

    Nick Palmer - I wasn't suggesting Labour's front bench team was useless just a bit irrelevant. On checking it I'd forgotten half of them were there. Perhaps they'll be fine. But it feels a bit like the approach of the Queen Mother 'Say nothing.'

    The public realm is basically crumbling. No-one has really looked at paying for services in a different way so the only option is substantial tax rises. £70bn/3% GDP would be enough to make some difference. Income tax will need to go up, personally I'd cut NI aswell so it was something like 24%/10% though that will cause real annoyance among pensioners. Those working over retirement age should continue paying NI even at a reduced rate if necessary. I'd increase council tax particularly on the highest value homes. There's probably a few other things that could be done too.

    Will the current planned tax rises make much difference? Labour will be reluctant to act of course for fear of frightening the horses.

    Another thing that the header I am trying to write deals with - why we get less and less for more and more money.
  • Options
    148grss148grss Posts: 3,796
    Dura_Ace said:

    theakes said:

    Have two grandchildren who since going into the private sector have blossomed and come on leaps and bounds. However their middle class parents struggle to meet their financial commitment, forgoing holidays, outings etc etc in order to do so and we help, such a financing our grand=daughters French class school week in Brittany earlier this year.
    Now for the crux of this submission, have emailed Starmer 3 times over the last 2 months about this and received only one holding response from one of his office underlings. It smacks to me of either ignorance or arrogance. My next communication will be private and confidential registered/recorded mail both to him and probably the Independent. His non response is very disappointing to say the least.

    What the fuck? This is next level Can-I-speak-to-the-manager energy.
    I think too many people are aggro'd by the presumption of getting a response from LOTO and not "my grandkids education depends on the quality of education provided at private schools, therefore don't damage private school access" versus the much more reasonable "my grandkids seem only to be able to thrive in private school education, therefore a change needs to happen in public school education so that other people and their children and grandchildren aren't in the position mine find themselves in". If richer people paid a bit more tax, and we just resourced public education better - the problem would be solved without needing to create a two tier education system.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,012
    148grss said:

    I object to VAT on private schools. I don't think you should have VAT on education. It's not a consumer good like a television. Charitable status is a little different. Should Eton be entitled to it? Should Stonewall for that matter?

    You're right, "education is not a consumer good like a television" and therefore there shouldn't be private schools and all public schools should be funded and resourced to such a degree that they are all providing a good quality education and experience of the world, and that isn't only reserved for the richest amongst us. I'm glad we agree :smile:
    In a world where government revenues are finite, we have to choose between priorities.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,109
    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Well, that tea discussion was gripping. Less boomer Facebook shit please.

    Swella must be praying (though not in the direction of the kibla) that it all kicks off between the old bill, the shaheeds, and the Statchoo Defence League on War Christmas this weekend.

    That would allow her to stoke the conflict between confessional blocs up to Lebanese Civil War levels, indulge her incipient authoritarianism and further burnish her campaign to be LotO.

    The tea conversation could be lifted straight from your favourite hilarious sitcom “One Foot in the Grave” which you watch daily, so I’m confused why you haven’t enjoyed it
    In fact, you could say you don't believe it

    I'll get my coat. And cap :)
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,064
    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Well, that tea discussion was gripping. Less boomer Facebook shit please.

    Swella must be praying (though not in the direction of the kibla) that it all kicks off between the old bill, the shaheeds, and the Statchoo Defence League on War Christmas this weekend.

    That would allow her to stoke the conflict between confessional blocs up to Lebanese Civil War levels, indulge her incipient authoritarianism and further burnish her campaign to be LotO.

    The tea conversation could be lifted straight from your favourite hilarious sitcom “One Foot in the Grave” which you watch daily, so I’m confused why you haven’t enjoyed it
    It's fascinating how a far left person appears to fantasise about the far right coming out in force. Almost as if they NEED it to help create chaos, total anarchy and then we'll be ripe for the revolution. Of course more likely we'd end up with a hard right nationalist government as a consequence of it all but that's a risk some people are willing to take.

    Or not perhaps. If it's all going to be televised you can switch between the fighting and re-runs of your favourite sitcoms.
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,542
    148grss said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    theakes said:

    Have two grandchildren who since going into the private sector have blossomed and come on leaps and bounds. However their middle class parents struggle to meet their financial commitment, forgoing holidays, outings etc etc in order to do so and we help, such a financing our grand=daughters French class school week in Brittany earlier this year.
    Now for the crux of this submission, have emailed Starmer 3 times over the last 2 months about this and received only one holding response from one of his office underlings. It smacks to me of either ignorance or arrogance. My next communication will be private and confidential registered/recorded mail both to him and probably the Independent. His non response is very disappointing to say the least.

    What the fuck? This is next level Can-I-speak-to-the-manager energy.
    I think too many people are aggro'd by the presumption of getting a response from LOTO and not "my grandkids education depends on the quality of education provided at private schools, therefore don't damage private school access" versus the much more reasonable "my grandkids seem only to be able to thrive in private school education, therefore a change needs to happen in public school education so that other people and their children and grandchildren aren't in the position mine find themselves in". If richer people paid a bit more tax, and we just resourced public education better - the problem would be solved without needing to create a two tier education system.
    Yes, but the point is that making private education more expensive won't make state education better. It'll just make finding a place at a state school even harder (note for posters in London; in many places outside of London most state schools are already at capacity.) It will raise less money than it will cost in knock-on effects.

    I do agree that making state education better is desirable. But this policy doesn't do that.
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,961
    https://theconspiracytest.org/ An interactive site about conspiracy theories. Recommended for some.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,023
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    For a bit of enjoyment, I've been reading Owen Jones' Twitter feed.

    ... and I think I've realised what annoys me so much about him. It is his absolute certainty. He has no doubts about his position; no hesitancy. He knows he is right and that he is occupying the highest of high moral grounds. Therefore anyone who differs from him even a little; the merest finger's width crack, is a target for his bile and (fairly poor) rhetoric. Arguments against his position can be ignored, because he is *right*.

    edit: I also think he's realised that when Labour win the next GE, he'll lose loads of followers if he becomes a party hack. So he wants to remain outside the tent, pi**ing in.

    Apropos of absolutely nothing.

    Owen’s a Sheffield lad.
    I thought he came from Bramhall?
    Born in Sheffield.
    Ah, yes, just looked him up. Then went to school in Bramhall. And briefly, Falkirk.

    His Wikipedia page also has a photo of him sporting the most punchable face I have seen since Piers Morgan last took up space on my telly.
    From Brammall Lane to Bramhall
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,109

    Nick Palmer - I wasn't suggesting Labour's front bench team was useless just a bit irrelevant. On checking it I'd forgotten half of them were there. Perhaps they'll be fine. But it feels a bit like the approach of the Queen Mother 'Say nothing.'

    The public realm is basically crumbling. No-one has really looked at paying for services in a different way so the only option is substantial tax rises. £70bn/3% GDP would be enough to make some difference. Income tax will need to go up, personally I'd cut NI aswell so it was something like 24%/10% though that will cause real annoyance among pensioners. Those working over retirement age should continue paying NI even at a reduced rate if necessary. I'd increase council tax particularly on the highest value homes. There's probably a few other things that could be done too.

    Will the current planned tax rises make much difference? Labour will be reluctant to act of course for fear of frightening the horses.

    Another thing that the header I am trying to write deals with - why we get less and less for more and more money.
    Enshittification of the state. Seriously. We took out a shit-ton of debt to venture capitalists, spent it on rubbish, and now we have to pay it back, which we can only do by offering less what we did.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,164
    148grss said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    theakes said:

    Have two grandchildren who since going into the private sector have blossomed and come on leaps and bounds. However their middle class parents struggle to meet their financial commitment, forgoing holidays, outings etc etc in order to do so and we help, such a financing our grand=daughters French class school week in Brittany earlier this year.
    Now for the crux of this submission, have emailed Starmer 3 times over the last 2 months about this and received only one holding response from one of his office underlings. It smacks to me of either ignorance or arrogance. My next communication will be private and confidential registered/recorded mail both to him and probably the Independent. His non response is very disappointing to say the least.

    What the fuck? This is next level Can-I-speak-to-the-manager energy.
    I think too many people are aggro'd by the presumption of getting a response from LOTO and not "my grandkids education depends on the quality of education provided at private schools, therefore don't damage private school access" versus the much more reasonable "my grandkids seem only to be able to thrive in private school education, therefore a change needs to happen in public school education so that other people and their children and grandchildren aren't in the position mine find themselves in". If richer people paid a bit more tax, and we just resourced public education better - the problem would be solved without needing to create a two tier education system.
    I think too many people are aggro'd by the fact that parents with a little income, who love their kids, will spend to given their kids an advantage. If not private schools, tutoring. If not tutoring, actually having books in the house. The only way they will get the fairness they crave is to put every child into care, so all can be equal. ;)

    (IMO schools only play a small part in this. Parenting is much more important.)
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,719

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Well, that tea discussion was gripping. Less boomer Facebook shit please.

    Swella must be praying (though not in the direction of the kibla) that it all kicks off between the old bill, the shaheeds, and the Statchoo Defence League on War Christmas this weekend.

    That would allow her to stoke the conflict between confessional blocs up to Lebanese Civil War levels, indulge her incipient authoritarianism and further burnish her campaign to be LotO.

    The tea conversation could be lifted straight from your favourite hilarious sitcom “One Foot in the Grave” which you watch daily, so I’m confused why you haven’t enjoyed it
    It's fascinating how a far left person appears to fantasise about the far right coming out in force. Almost as if they NEED it to help create chaos, total anarchy and then we'll be ripe for the revolution. Of course more likely we'd end up with a hard right nationalist government as a consequence of it all but that's a risk some people are willing to take.

    Or not perhaps. If it's all going to be televised you can switch between the fighting and re-runs of your favourite sitcoms.
    That's only happened in every country where the Fascist Chaos -> Communist Utopia has been tried.

    Starting with Germany in the 1930s.

    There was a Russian joke under Yeltsin -

    "Old people remember that under Stalin there was food and there was order. What do old people want, today? Lots of food and lots of order."
  • Options
    "The core concern expressed by Allan Bloom more than 35 years ago was that relativism and nihilism would lead to impoverished souls, especially among the young, the decomposition of America’s social contract and its political culture, and a “chaos of the instincts or passions.” His worst fears have been realized. What Mr. Bloom could not have imagined is that it would be the right that would be the author of this catastrophe."

    https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/06/opinion/trump-allan-bloom-republicans.html
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,682
    My god. Watch this

    At some pointing something is going to snap. I’m just now sure who, where or how


    “In UK can you, with one's face covered, verbally assault, threaten and insult police officers without arrest?”

    https://x.com/radiogenoa/status/1721486080782774714?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,064

    "The core concern expressed by Allan Bloom more than 35 years ago was that relativism and nihilism would lead to impoverished souls, especially among the young, the decomposition of America’s social contract and its political culture, and a “chaos of the instincts or passions.” His worst fears have been realized. What Mr. Bloom could not have imagined is that it would be the right that would be the author of this catastrophe."

    https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/06/opinion/trump-allan-bloom-republicans.html

    I keep meaning to find his book - The Closing Of The American Mind.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,719

    148grss said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    theakes said:

    Have two grandchildren who since going into the private sector have blossomed and come on leaps and bounds. However their middle class parents struggle to meet their financial commitment, forgoing holidays, outings etc etc in order to do so and we help, such a financing our grand=daughters French class school week in Brittany earlier this year.
    Now for the crux of this submission, have emailed Starmer 3 times over the last 2 months about this and received only one holding response from one of his office underlings. It smacks to me of either ignorance or arrogance. My next communication will be private and confidential registered/recorded mail both to him and probably the Independent. His non response is very disappointing to say the least.

    What the fuck? This is next level Can-I-speak-to-the-manager energy.
    I think too many people are aggro'd by the presumption of getting a response from LOTO and not "my grandkids education depends on the quality of education provided at private schools, therefore don't damage private school access" versus the much more reasonable "my grandkids seem only to be able to thrive in private school education, therefore a change needs to happen in public school education so that other people and their children and grandchildren aren't in the position mine find themselves in". If richer people paid a bit more tax, and we just resourced public education better - the problem would be solved without needing to create a two tier education system.
    I think too many people are aggro'd by the fact that parents with a little income, who love their kids, will spend to given their kids an advantage. If not private schools, tutoring. If not tutoring, actually having books in the house. The only way they will get the fairness they crave is to put every child into care, so all can be equal. ;)

    (IMO schools only play a small part in this. Parenting is much more important.)
    I have given the boxed set of the Oxford Reading Tree, as a gift, a number of times. It seems to be quite effective at creating book worms.

    There is a special kind joy when they start pulling the next book of the shelf themselves.
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    viewcode said:

    Nick Palmer - I wasn't suggesting Labour's front bench team was useless just a bit irrelevant. On checking it I'd forgotten half of them were there. Perhaps they'll be fine. But it feels a bit like the approach of the Queen Mother 'Say nothing.'

    The public realm is basically crumbling. No-one has really looked at paying for services in a different way so the only option is substantial tax rises. £70bn/3% GDP would be enough to make some difference. Income tax will need to go up, personally I'd cut NI aswell so it was something like 24%/10% though that will cause real annoyance among pensioners. Those working over retirement age should continue paying NI even at a reduced rate if necessary. I'd increase council tax particularly on the highest value homes. There's probably a few other things that could be done too.

    Will the current planned tax rises make much difference? Labour will be reluctant to act of course for fear of frightening the horses.

    Another thing that the header I am trying to write deals with - why we get less and less for more and more money.
    Enshittification of the state. Seriously. We took out a shit-ton of debt to venture capitalists, spent it on rubbish, and now we have to pay it back, which we can only do by offering less what we did.
    And the huge amount of foreign ownership in our businesses and infrastructure means that we have become an exporter of profits. Our money goes abroad.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,719
    MattW said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Er..300th.

    We've had a cat, so let's have a joyous collie dog.

    https://twitter.com/WorldBollard/status/1720449720311492636

    I love this. We don't have a dog because we don't have the time and space a collie would need and I have zero interest in having any other kind of dog. They really are the most brilliant creatures.
    Not just Collies. Corgis as well.

    https://twitter.com/WorldBollard/status/1715032550429605889
    THIS is what Twitter is for.
    I won't spam PB too much with the World Bollard Association, BUT ...

    The World’s Number One Superhero…BOLLARDMAN. Saving the planet, one BMW at a time.

    https://twitter.com/WorldBollard/status/1716087520138592453

    Titanic & Bollard 1912.
    Bollard 2023.


    https://twitter.com/WorldBollard/status/1715429964256850318

    (Enough for now ... you know where to look.)
    That empty dock makes me want to build HMS Incomparable at 1-in-1 scale.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,023
    edited November 2023
    This won't happen, even with Starmer's VAT plan but~
    If private schools were all shut & banned tommorow, there'd be a 7% increase (Slightly less actually as overseas students would presumably go elsewhere) in the school population.
    But there'd also be an increase in "sharp elbowed" parents keeping tabs on the local school.
    So a swing & a roundabout.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,719

    viewcode said:

    Nick Palmer - I wasn't suggesting Labour's front bench team was useless just a bit irrelevant. On checking it I'd forgotten half of them were there. Perhaps they'll be fine. But it feels a bit like the approach of the Queen Mother 'Say nothing.'

    The public realm is basically crumbling. No-one has really looked at paying for services in a different way so the only option is substantial tax rises. £70bn/3% GDP would be enough to make some difference. Income tax will need to go up, personally I'd cut NI aswell so it was something like 24%/10% though that will cause real annoyance among pensioners. Those working over retirement age should continue paying NI even at a reduced rate if necessary. I'd increase council tax particularly on the highest value homes. There's probably a few other things that could be done too.

    Will the current planned tax rises make much difference? Labour will be reluctant to act of course for fear of frightening the horses.

    Another thing that the header I am trying to write deals with - why we get less and less for more and more money.
    Enshittification of the state. Seriously. We took out a shit-ton of debt to venture capitalists, spent it on rubbish, and now we have to pay it back, which we can only do by offering less what we did.
    And the huge amount of foreign ownership in our businesses and infrastructure means that we have become an exporter of profits. Our money goes abroad.
    It's actually simpler than that - as to why state productivity has gone the way it has.
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,542
    Leon said:

    My god. Watch this

    At some pointing something is going to snap. I’m just now sure who, where or how


    “In UK can you, with one's face covered, verbally assault, threaten and insult police officers without arrest?”

    https://x.com/radiogenoa/status/1721486080782774714?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Only if you're representing a fashionable cause while you're doing so.
  • Options
    bigglesbiggles Posts: 4,370

    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    The best possible tea is a mix of English Breakfast and Earl Grey. There is no dispute on this

    Of all the things Leon is wrong about (and they contain multitudes...) this is the most wrong he has ever been about anything, ever.

    There is no dispute on this
    To follow up hating cats with this barely 24 hours later shows an ability to generate new wrong opinions at an impressive pace, though. Fair play to him.
    Nobody likes cats. It’s just that some of you are held hostage by them.

    We will free you one day.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,109
    edited November 2023
    [deleted]
  • Options
    bigglesbiggles Posts: 4,370
    Pulpstar said:

    This won't happen, even with Starmer's VAT plan but~
    If private schools were all shut & banned tommorow, there'd be a 7% increase (Slightly less actually as overseas students would presumably go elsewhere) in the school population.
    But there'd also be an increase in "sharp elbowed" parents keeping tabs on the local school.
    So a swing & a roundabout.

    If everyone was doing their job properly, the number of school places should be determined by birth rates X years ago (they all might go to state school). So, if everyone was doing their job properly, the excess capacity for the public school boys should be there in the system.

    That it probably isn’t, is a problem with planning.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,682
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    My god. Watch this

    At some pointing something is going to snap. I’m just now sure who, where or how


    “In UK can you, with one's face covered, verbally assault, threaten and insult police officers without arrest?”

    https://x.com/radiogenoa/status/1721486080782774714?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Only if you're representing a fashionable cause while you're doing so.
    If only the Met would show such incredible forebearance when dealing with people who send transphobic tweets or who film Palestinian flags. Weirdly, you get arrested for all that

    But not this
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,109

    viewcode said:

    Nick Palmer - I wasn't suggesting Labour's front bench team was useless just a bit irrelevant. On checking it I'd forgotten half of them were there. Perhaps they'll be fine. But it feels a bit like the approach of the Queen Mother 'Say nothing.'

    The public realm is basically crumbling. No-one has really looked at paying for services in a different way so the only option is substantial tax rises. £70bn/3% GDP would be enough to make some difference. Income tax will need to go up, personally I'd cut NI aswell so it was something like 24%/10% though that will cause real annoyance among pensioners. Those working over retirement age should continue paying NI even at a reduced rate if necessary. I'd increase council tax particularly on the highest value homes. There's probably a few other things that could be done too.

    Will the current planned tax rises make much difference? Labour will be reluctant to act of course for fear of frightening the horses.

    Another thing that the header I am trying to write deals with - why we get less and less for more and more money.
    Enshittification of the state. Seriously. We took out a shit-ton of debt to venture capitalists, spent it on rubbish, and now we have to pay it back, which we can only do by offering less what we did.
    And the huge amount of foreign ownership in our businesses and infrastructure means that we have become an exporter of profits. Our money goes abroad.
    Bannon was right. We're serfs.
  • Options

    viewcode said:

    Nick Palmer - I wasn't suggesting Labour's front bench team was useless just a bit irrelevant. On checking it I'd forgotten half of them were there. Perhaps they'll be fine. But it feels a bit like the approach of the Queen Mother 'Say nothing.'

    The public realm is basically crumbling. No-one has really looked at paying for services in a different way so the only option is substantial tax rises. £70bn/3% GDP would be enough to make some difference. Income tax will need to go up, personally I'd cut NI aswell so it was something like 24%/10% though that will cause real annoyance among pensioners. Those working over retirement age should continue paying NI even at a reduced rate if necessary. I'd increase council tax particularly on the highest value homes. There's probably a few other things that could be done too.

    Will the current planned tax rises make much difference? Labour will be reluctant to act of course for fear of frightening the horses.

    Another thing that the header I am trying to write deals with - why we get less and less for more and more money.
    Enshittification of the state. Seriously. We took out a shit-ton of debt to venture capitalists, spent it on rubbish, and now we have to pay it back, which we can only do by offering less what we did.
    And the huge amount of foreign ownership in our businesses and infrastructure means that we have become an exporter of profits. Our money goes abroad.
    It's actually simpler than that - as to why state productivity has gone the way it has.
    I look forward to your header :+1:
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,542
    biggles said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    The best possible tea is a mix of English Breakfast and Earl Grey. There is no dispute on this

    Of all the things Leon is wrong about (and they contain multitudes...) this is the most wrong he has ever been about anything, ever.

    There is no dispute on this
    To follow up hating cats with this barely 24 hours later shows an ability to generate new wrong opinions at an impressive pace, though. Fair play to him.
    Nobody likes cats. It’s just that some of you are held hostage by them.

    We will free you one day.
    I had always thought I was fairly close to the middle of the bell curve with my opinions on cats and dogs. But it turns out actually the middle of the bell curve is wildly more pro-dog than I am, and wildly less pro-cat.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,719
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    My god. Watch this

    At some pointing something is going to snap. I’m just now sure who, where or how


    “In UK can you, with one's face covered, verbally assault, threaten and insult police officers without arrest?”

    https://x.com/radiogenoa/status/1721486080782774714?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Only if you're representing a fashionable cause while you're doing so.
    I thought the tipping point was pudgy semi-demi-fascists being arrested for peeing on a war memorial? Wait, that was BLM, wasn't it.
  • Options
    Penddu2Penddu2 Posts: 596

    I have spent 10 minutes trying to work out how I reply to this question. Still not sure.


    Why would you like or dislike a party?

    They are just a thing.

    You might like or dislike the individuals or their policies. But the party?
    Perhaps you need to clarify the qguestion.....'On a scale of 1 to 10 how much do you hate the duplicitous lying kleptomainiac c***s that comprise the Tory party'...
  • Options
    sarissasarissa Posts: 1,802

    Carnyx said:

    In PPE news:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/nov/06/michelle-mone-admits-involvement-with-vip-lane-ppe-company

    'The Conservative peer Michelle Mone has acknowledged for the first time that she was involved with a company that was awarded government PPE contracts worth £200m during the Covid pandemic.

    Lady Mone’s husband, Douglas Barrowman, has also acknowledged for the first time that he was involved in the company, PPE Medpro.[...]

    The admissions raise questions about years of denials from the couple. Until now, Mone and Barrowman have consistently and emphatically denied to the Guardian, via lawyers, that they were involved in the company.'

    Are statements to the Guardian made under oath?
    I'm sure she has the brass neck to vote against the government's amendments in the Economic Crime and Corporate Transparency Bill at Lord’s report stage to tackle SLAPPs.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,706
    biggles said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    The best possible tea is a mix of English Breakfast and Earl Grey. There is no dispute on this

    Of all the things Leon is wrong about (and they contain multitudes...) this is the most wrong he has ever been about anything, ever.

    There is no dispute on this
    To follow up hating cats with this barely 24 hours later shows an ability to generate new wrong opinions at an impressive pace, though. Fair play to him.
    Nobody likes cats. It’s just that some of you are held hostage by them.

    We will free you one day.
    Good god, I have just noticed I made exactly the same post as @Leon earlier in that the best possible tea is a mixture of English Breakfast and Earl Grey.

    I would just now like to say that @Leon is right about everything he posts. As he would say 'There is no dispute on this'

    Or is it I am always wrong.
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,064
    Penddu2 said:

    I have spent 10 minutes trying to work out how I reply to this question. Still not sure.


    Why would you like or dislike a party?

    They are just a thing.

    You might like or dislike the individuals or their policies. But the party?
    Perhaps you need to clarify the qguestion.....'On a scale of 1 to 10 how much do you hate the duplicitous lying kleptomainiac c***s that comprise the Tory party'...
    I was always taught that there were no swear words in Welsh.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,149
    148grss said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    theakes said:

    Have two grandchildren who since going into the private sector have blossomed and come on leaps and bounds. However their middle class parents struggle to meet their financial commitment, forgoing holidays, outings etc etc in order to do so and we help, such a financing our grand=daughters French class school week in Brittany earlier this year.
    Now for the crux of this submission, have emailed Starmer 3 times over the last 2 months about this and received only one holding response from one of his office underlings. It smacks to me of either ignorance or arrogance. My next communication will be private and confidential registered/recorded mail both to him and probably the Independent. His non response is very disappointing to say the least.

    What the fuck? This is next level Can-I-speak-to-the-manager energy.
    I think too many people are aggro'd by the presumption of getting a response from LOTO and not "my grandkids education depends on the quality of education provided at private schools, therefore don't damage private school access" versus the much more reasonable "my grandkids seem only to be able to thrive in private school education, therefore a change needs to happen in public school education so that other people and their children and grandchildren aren't in the position mine find themselves in". If richer people paid a bit more tax, and we just resourced public education better - the problem would be solved without needing to create a two tier education system.
    theakes does seem to be saying something like "We want our family members to have benefits of private education, as compared to people who can't afford it, but we are struggling to afford it. What are you going to do about it?"
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,682
    Just Stop Oil have just smashed up one of the most beautiful paintings in the world. The Rokeby Venus in the National Gallery

    https://x.com/juststop_oil/status/1721493745781113173?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Just Stop Beautiful Art
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,164
    Leon said:

    Just Stop Oil have just smashed up one of the most beautiful paintings in the world. The Rokeby Venus in the National Gallery

    https://x.com/juststop_oil/status/1721493745781113173?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Just Stop Beautiful Art

    What pathetic fools.

    Sometimes I wonder if Just Stop Oil are actually in the pay of Big Oil; because JSO's 'stunts' cast shade on the entire environmental movement.
  • Options
    PhilPhil Posts: 1,945
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    My god. Watch this

    At some pointing something is going to snap. I’m just now sure who, where or how


    “In UK can you, with one's face covered, verbally assault, threaten and insult police officers without arrest?”

    https://x.com/radiogenoa/status/1721486080782774714?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Only if you're representing a fashionable cause while you're doing so.
    The distance between what middle class types commenting on PB who barely ever come into contact with the police think police work ought to look like & what it actually looks like never ceases to amuse (& I’m one of those middle class types).

    The police are supposed to be able to take it when people say mean things to them, it’s part of the job. Arresting a bunch of shouty people is going to be a long way down the current list of MET priorities.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,363
    edited November 2023
    Leon said:

    Just Stop Oil have just smashed up one of the most beautiful paintings in the world. The Rokeby Venus in the National Gallery

    https://x.com/juststop_oil/status/1721493745781113173?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Just Stop Beautiful Art

    Smashed the protective glass which has done its job.

    Just dusty old man-made art anyway.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,682
    edited November 2023

    Leon said:

    Just Stop Oil have just smashed up one of the most beautiful paintings in the world. The Rokeby Venus in the National Gallery

    https://x.com/juststop_oil/status/1721493745781113173?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Just Stop Beautiful Art

    What pathetic fools.

    Sometimes I wonder if Just Stop Oil are actually in the pay of Big Oil; because JSO's 'stunts' cast shade on the entire environmental movement.
    What deranged cretin thinks this is a good PR stunt???

    It makes me hate them with a passion. And I am alert to their cause - I loathe the way we pollute the world with plastic

    But this - this? Ugh
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,682

    Leon said:

    Just Stop Oil have just smashed up one of the most beautiful paintings in the world. The Rokeby Venus in the National Gallery

    https://x.com/juststop_oil/status/1721493745781113173?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Just Stop Beautiful Art

    Smashed the protective glass which has done its job.

    Just dusty old man-made art anyway.
    Let’s hope the painting is untouched. That looks like serious damage

    I suspect you’d feel different if this was an iconic piece of Scottish art
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,629
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    My god. Watch this

    At some pointing something is going to snap. I’m just now sure who, where or how


    “In UK can you, with one's face covered, verbally assault, threaten and insult police officers without arrest?”

    https://x.com/radiogenoa/status/1721486080782774714?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Only if you're representing a fashionable cause while you're doing so.
    If only the Met would show such incredible forebearance when dealing with people who send transphobic tweets or who film Palestinian flags. Weirdly, you get arrested for all that

    But not this
    Did they not also arrest a woman for admitting that she may have been 'praying in her head'?
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,056
    Phil said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    My god. Watch this

    At some pointing something is going to snap. I’m just now sure who, where or how


    “In UK can you, with one's face covered, verbally assault, threaten and insult police officers without arrest?”

    https://x.com/radiogenoa/status/1721486080782774714?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Only if you're representing a fashionable cause while you're doing so.
    The distance between what middle class types commenting on PB who barely ever come into contact with the police think police work ought to look like & what it actually looks like never ceases to amuse (& I’m one of those middle class types).

    The police are supposed to be able to take it when people say mean things to them, it’s part of the job. Arresting a bunch of shouty people is going to be a long way down the current list of MET priorities.
    Just thinking about the average Rangers vs Celtic football derby ...
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,429
    Leon said:

    My god. Watch this

    At some pointing something is going to snap. I’m just now sure who, where or how


    “In UK can you, with one's face covered, verbally assault, threaten and insult police officers without arrest?”

    https://x.com/radiogenoa/status/1721486080782774714?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    My impression is it's likely to be you.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,164

    Pathetic excuses, part #58207:

    "German Defense Minister Boris Pistorius said that the issue of transferring Taurus missiles to Ukraine is not urgent, since these missiles “will not change the rules of the game” in the Russian war against Ukraine."

    https://twitter.com/Maks_NAFO_FELLA/status/1721521430028837138
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,682
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    My god. Watch this

    At some pointing something is going to snap. I’m just now sure who, where or how


    “In UK can you, with one's face covered, verbally assault, threaten and insult police officers without arrest?”

    https://x.com/radiogenoa/status/1721486080782774714?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    My impression is it's likely to be you.
    No, I have too nice a life

This discussion has been closed.