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Starmer is satisfying Lab councillors except on one topic. – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,058
    TimS said:

    Chris said:

    Looks like the Remembrance Day demo is gonna be quite a confrontation.

    https://twitter.com/SuellaBraverman/status/1720469853520183565

    Suella: It is entirely unacceptable to desecrate Armistice Day with a hate march through London.
    If it goes ahead there is an obvious risk of serious public disorder, violence and damage as well as giving offence to millions of decent British people.

    Giving offence to millions of decent British people doesn't usually seem to bother Suella Braverman.
    She always seems so cross about stuff considering she’s in government.
    All she cares about at the moment is the next leadership election. Everything she does is simply about beguiling the Tory membership.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    Watched The Long Good Friday last week, and now I’m constantly rewatching the last two mins of it - one of the greatest scenes in British film history I reckon

    Just shows what a brilliant actor Bob Hoskins was. That transformation from anger and bemusement to a resigned slightly sick smile is remarkable.
    Funny that two prominent Brexiters should be such big fans of The Long Good Friday.

    Of course Bob Hoskins did that documentary a couple of years later bemoaning (very un TLGF) Heseltine's plans for the docklands.
    It was only FOM with countries with whom the movement was only one way that bothered me about the EU. It didn’t strike me as fair to the low paid people in Britain, and more of a ruse by big business. I favoured a kind of protectionism that would have been the normal Trade Union position in the 70s/80s even if it was economically sub optimal in GDP terms
  • kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:


    FPT re Starmers plans

    My thoughts exactly. Is Starmer ready to take on what must be a large element of his natural supporters. Those PBers laughing at Sunak tarmaccing over southern England havent realised Starmer wants to do it too.

    Likewise it is easy to announce the concept of housing and infrastructure. But where is he going to put them ? If he knows he will be asked to declare it cue the Nimbys and if he doesnt he wont be doing much in his term of office as it will take years to get stuff up and moving.

    In three or four safe Tory constituencies, I'd guess ?
    Or the new Lib Dem ones if he has a large enough majority.

    Rewrite the planning laws in the first six months.
    He was announcing expansion in the North East at lunchtime.

    But we are back to , if he doesnt have his plans in place now he lose will most of the next terms just getting to contract issuance. Then theres also the small matter of capacity. Its quite a jump to go from 250k houses p.a. to 500k with a construction industry which is hardly dynamic.
    No doubt they are gaming out how to balance the political and practical imperatives, and whatever they end up will be some sort of compromise. Which you'll quite fairly critique.

    But it will be a serious improvement on what we have now, if they just make it the priority, at the beginning of their first Parliament.

    And there's always the second term...
    As I said Im fully behind the aim. But I suspect he'll back off if he meets much opposition.
    I'm not a Starmer advocate, so I'm not going to argue the point.
    But it ought not to be impossible for a determined PM with a decent majority.

    The appeal for him is that the greatest demand is in the southeast, where he has the least to lose. It ought not to take a political genius to see that as a golden opportunity to deliver meaningful change.
    Depends what that change is of course I cant see it being much by way of the productive economy. If he concentrates on the South East he gets whacked twice over. Blue Wall nimbyism while Red Wall say London gets everything. A difficult balancing act.

    Really he should be pushing more growth to the North and trying to regenerate some of our struggling towns. But you cant just build towns willy nilly they need productive output and thats where Im not clear on how his economic policy ( zilch ) is going to help out.
    There are currently plans to convert many thousands of hectares of land in Lincolnshire into solar parks. I would have thought, if the land is being taken out of agricultural usage anyway, then it would be far better to build houses on all that same land and then stick solar panels on all the roofs. Build some new towns rather than messing around with little bits here and there.
    Yes I agree, but do the planning laws also get relaxed outisde the new towns ? I live in a village with a population of 800. I would quite happily see it double in size over time if it was done sensibly ( ie not graft an executive mega estate on the side ). The village needs people if it is to keep its basic amenities going and preferably get some of them back.
    In spite of Bart's idiotic claims, it is not the planning laws which are at fault for the lack of building. That is a myth spread by developers. The number of plots with full planning permission that are undeveloped has been increasing by over 10% a year for many years. Over 90% of housing developments get approval without reference to the Inspectorate and in many cases those that are refused are on technical grounds which are subsequently overturned.

    The idea that Nimbyism or planning is the main factor holding up increased housebuilding does not stand up to a minutes' scrutiny.

    One of the problems you do have with smaller village developments is that the houses often are quite difficult to sell, at least in the timescale that the developers want. Hence the reason they prefer to build around larger towns.
    It's definitely not the only reason, as developers are indeed sh*ts. They in fact benefit from delaying, and councils get punished for their actions.

    But given the great political benefit that there appears to be in being NIMBY, which is why MPs and councillors pander to it whenever they can (against national and local policy from those taking a broader view) I find it very hard to believe it is not a significant issue, because it is demonstrative of the public attitude that there is a problem, but we can solve it with a magic wand or it is always the case that it must not be solved wherever they are.

    I've seen far too many objections to utterly harmless development with pathetic fig leaf justifications, or objections to the solutions of things they claimed were the reason for objection, to conclude it is not a significant negative influence on why we have gotten into this mess.

    Developers simply make it so much worse because they exploit the crappy rules in other aspects.
    Most of the NIMBYism appears to be non-housing though (roads, wind farms, phone masts etc). As I say, given that over 90% of housing planning applications are approved without reference to the Inspectorate, it seems unlikely that it is a major factor in preventing housing developments.

    Certainly in the case of the larger developments such as the Growth Points which were approved over a decade and a half ago, NIMBYism could not play a part because the planning and approvals were done in secret and only announced to the public once it was a done deal. Many of those houses still haven't been built.
    [Citation needed] on 90% claim since last time we discussed this a third of housing applications were rejected.

    And that's without considering the potential homes never built in the first place as people never put in an application in the first place.

    NIMBYism does play a part because why aren't other builders building on other land beyond what has been agreed in deals? They can't because they can't get permission.
    You are getting desperate again Bart. I cited the 90% claim in my original posting upthread. And no, it was not 30% rejected last time we discussed this. That was your false figures. It has been 90%+ every time from my side. Indeed after appeal it is up to 95%.

    The rest of your comment is just special pleading based on no evidence at all. You comprehensively lost the 'planning permission is stopping development' argument last time so you have switched to the 'wrong sort of developers' argument. Neither are valid.
    No, your 90% claim last time was based on false data by misreading overall planning applications, of which 90% was for existing dwellings to have eg loft conversions/extensions/conservatories etc, it was a third rejected for new build housing.

    You say you have cited it up thread, I've just scanned the thread and can't see any such citation or any hyperlink at all. Please provide a link to any such citation as I've given you them before and you stopped repeating the 90% claim for a while so I'm shocked to see you back on it.

    Planning permission 100% is stopping development, our planning system means competitors can't get build at will on land, simply saying "well they have permission so nobody else needs it" doesn't cut the mustard.
    The link I included earlier in the thread that you somehow missed

    https://www.local.gov.uk/about/news/housing-backlog-more-million-homes-planning-permission-not-yet-built

    Including the line:

    "The number of planning permissions granted for new homes has almost doubled since 2012/13 with councils approving 9 in 10 applications."

    Not existing dwellings, not loft conversions, new homes.

    It is you who are misrepresenting the data because it doesn't suit your argument.
    That quote does not contain any data and does not match the Government data, instead it seems to be bullshit spin by those pushing an agenda.

    Try again with some real figures. Try a real source, with actual figures that can be analysed: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1124519/Planning_Application_Statistics_July_to_September_2022_Statistical_Release.pdf

    image

    Year ending 2021 Q3. 39.2k out of 52.9k residential applications decided were approved. 39.2/52.9 = 74.1%
    Year ending 2022 Q3. 36.3k out of 49.5k residential applications decided were approved. 36.9/49.5 = 74.5%

    9 out of 10 isn't sourced anywhere with data, merely a press release of somebody claiming its the figure. Its not.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,159
    isam said:

    I'm trying to come up with a list of essential 90s tracks and am particularly looking for ones that been rather forgotten. Things like Regret by New Order, Yes by McAlmont/Butler, Wide Open Space by Mansun.

    ‘Linger’ by The Cranberries. An example of the type of song I think is less prevalent nowadays @kinabalu
    One of the (I sense) hundreds of songs you know that I don't. I'll check it out next time I'm in music mode.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,406

    isam said:

    Watched The Long Good Friday last week, and now I’m constantly rewatching the last two mins of it - one of the greatest scenes in British film history I reckon

    Just shows what a brilliant actor Bob Hoskins was. That transformation from anger and bemusement to a resigned slightly sick smile is remarkable.
    Funny that two prominent Brexiters should be such big fans of The Long Good Friday.

    Of course Bob Hoskins did that documentary a couple of years later bemoaning (very un TLGF) Heseltine's plans for the docklands.
    He also earlier did "On the Move", an adult literacy series.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    dixiedean said:

    I'm trying to come up with a list of essential 90s tracks and am particularly looking for ones that been rather forgotten. Things like Regret by New Order, Yes by McAlmont/Butler, Wide Open Space by Mansun.

    Wrote for Luck Happy Mondays.

    Edit. Remarkably that was 1988.
    I was just going to pull you on that!

    Step On was my absolute favourite in 1990; the fifth year at School, those really were the days.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,406
    isam said:

    dixiedean said:

    I'm trying to come up with a list of essential 90s tracks and am particularly looking for ones that been rather forgotten. Things like Regret by New Order, Yes by McAlmont/Butler, Wide Open Space by Mansun.

    Wrote for Luck Happy Mondays.

    Edit. Remarkably that was 1988.
    I was just going to pull you on that!

    Step On was my absolute favourite in 1990; the fifth year at School, those really were the days.
    I was twisting your melon man to see if you were paying attention!
  • isam said:

    I'm trying to come up with a list of essential 90s tracks and am particularly looking for ones that been rather forgotten. Things like Regret by New Order, Yes by McAlmont/Butler, Wide Open Space by Mansun.

    Their performance of ‘Yes’ on Jools Holland is one my all time favourite renditions of a song - what a voice David McAlmont had

    ‘Miss Misery’ & ‘Angeles’ by Elliott Smith are great, and quite under the radar I think

    ‘For Tomorrow’ & ‘Chemical World’ by blur?

    ‘Then’ by The Charlatans?

    Enjoy The Silence - Depeche Mode (or failing that, I Feel You)
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    I'm trying to come up with a list of essential 90s tracks and am particularly looking for ones that been rather forgotten. Things like Regret by New Order, Yes by McAlmont/Butler, Wide Open Space by Mansun.

    Their performance of ‘Yes’ on Jools Holland is one my all time favourite renditions of a song - what a voice David McAlmont had

    ‘Miss Misery’ & ‘Angeles’ by Elliott Smith are great, and quite under the radar I think

    ‘For Tomorrow’ & ‘Chemical World’ by blur?

    ‘Then’ by The Charlatans?

    Enjoy The Silence - Depeche Mode (or failing that, I Feel You)
    You can have that, no need to feel me
  • Avoid London next weekend...




    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    22m
    So if the Met recognise the significance of these events, and wants to take a "robust approach", why not ask for the marches to be postponed.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,534
    edited November 2023

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:


    FPT re Starmers plans

    My thoughts exactly. Is Starmer ready to take on what must be a large element of his natural supporters. Those PBers laughing at Sunak tarmaccing over southern England havent realised Starmer wants to do it too.

    Likewise it is easy to announce the concept of housing and infrastructure. But where is he going to put them ? If he knows he will be asked to declare it cue the Nimbys and if he doesnt he wont be doing much in his term of office as it will take years to get stuff up and moving.

    In three or four safe Tory constituencies, I'd guess ?
    Or the new Lib Dem ones if he has a large enough majority.

    Rewrite the planning laws in the first six months.
    He was announcing expansion in the North East at lunchtime.

    But we are back to , if he doesnt have his plans in place now he lose will most of the next terms just getting to contract issuance. Then theres also the small matter of capacity. Its quite a jump to go from 250k houses p.a. to 500k with a construction industry which is hardly dynamic.
    No doubt they are gaming out how to balance the political and practical imperatives, and whatever they end up will be some sort of compromise. Which you'll quite fairly critique.

    But it will be a serious improvement on what we have now, if they just make it the priority, at the beginning of their first Parliament.

    And there's always the second term...
    As I said Im fully behind the aim. But I suspect he'll back off if he meets much opposition.
    I'm not a Starmer advocate, so I'm not going to argue the point.
    But it ought not to be impossible for a determined PM with a decent majority.

    The appeal for him is that the greatest demand is in the southeast, where he has the least to lose. It ought not to take a political genius to see that as a golden opportunity to deliver meaningful change.
    Depends what that change is of course I cant see it being much by way of the productive economy. If he concentrates on the South East he gets whacked twice over. Blue Wall nimbyism while Red Wall say London gets everything. A difficult balancing act.

    Really he should be pushing more growth to the North and trying to regenerate some of our struggling towns. But you cant just build towns willy nilly they need productive output and thats where Im not clear on how his economic policy ( zilch ) is going to help out.
    There are currently plans to convert many thousands of hectares of land in Lincolnshire into solar parks. I would have thought, if the land is being taken out of agricultural usage anyway, then it would be far better to build houses on all that same land and then stick solar panels on all the roofs. Build some new towns rather than messing around with little bits here and there.
    Yes I agree, but do the planning laws also get relaxed outisde the new towns ? I live in a village with a population of 800. I would quite happily see it double in size over time if it was done sensibly ( ie not graft an executive mega estate on the side ). The village needs people if it is to keep its basic amenities going and preferably get some of them back.
    In spite of Bart's idiotic claims, it is not the planning laws which are at fault for the lack of building. That is a myth spread by developers. The number of plots with full planning permission that are undeveloped has been increasing by over 10% a year for many years. Over 90% of housing developments get approval without reference to the Inspectorate and in many cases those that are refused are on technical grounds which are subsequently overturned.

    The idea that Nimbyism or planning is the main factor holding up increased housebuilding does not stand up to a minutes' scrutiny.

    One of the problems you do have with smaller village developments is that the houses often are quite difficult to sell, at least in the timescale that the developers want. Hence the reason they prefer to build around larger towns.
    It's definitely not the only reason, as developers are indeed sh*ts. They in fact benefit from delaying, and councils get punished for their actions.

    But given the great political benefit that there appears to be in being NIMBY, which is why MPs and councillors pander to it whenever they can (against national and local policy from those taking a broader view) I find it very hard to believe it is not a significant issue, because it is demonstrative of the public attitude that there is a problem, but we can solve it with a magic wand or it is always the case that it must not be solved wherever they are.

    I've seen far too many objections to utterly harmless development with pathetic fig leaf justifications, or objections to the solutions of things they claimed were the reason for objection, to conclude it is not a significant negative influence on why we have gotten into this mess.

    Developers simply make it so much worse because they exploit the crappy rules in other aspects.
    Most of the NIMBYism appears to be non-housing though (roads, wind farms, phone masts etc). As I say, given that over 90% of housing planning applications are approved without reference to the Inspectorate, it seems unlikely that it is a major factor in preventing housing developments.

    Certainly in the case of the larger developments such as the Growth Points which were approved over a decade and a half ago, NIMBYism could not play a part because the planning and approvals were done in secret and only announced to the public once it was a done deal. Many of those houses still haven't been built.
    [Citation needed] on 90% claim since last time we discussed this a third of housing applications were rejected.

    And that's without considering the potential homes never built in the first place as people never put in an application in the first place.

    NIMBYism does play a part because why aren't other builders building on other land beyond what has been agreed in deals? They can't because they can't get permission.
    You are getting desperate again Bart. I cited the 90% claim in my original posting upthread. And no, it was not 30% rejected last time we discussed this. That was your false figures. It has been 90%+ every time from my side. Indeed after appeal it is up to 95%.

    The rest of your comment is just special pleading based on no evidence at all. You comprehensively lost the 'planning permission is stopping development' argument last time so you have switched to the 'wrong sort of developers' argument. Neither are valid.
    No, your 90% claim last time was based on false data by misreading overall planning applications, of which 90% was for existing dwellings to have eg loft conversions/extensions/conservatories etc, it was a third rejected for new build housing.

    You say you have cited it up thread, I've just scanned the thread and can't see any such citation or any hyperlink at all. Please provide a link to any such citation as I've given you them before and you stopped repeating the 90% claim for a while so I'm shocked to see you back on it.

    Planning permission 100% is stopping development, our planning system means competitors can't get build at will on land, simply saying "well they have permission so nobody else needs it" doesn't cut the mustard.
    The link I included earlier in the thread that you somehow missed

    https://www.local.gov.uk/about/news/housing-backlog-more-million-homes-planning-permission-not-yet-built

    Including the line:

    "The number of planning permissions granted for new homes has almost doubled since 2012/13 with councils approving 9 in 10 applications."

    Not existing dwellings, not loft conversions, new homes.

    It is you who are misrepresenting the data because it doesn't suit your argument.
    That quote does not contain any data and does not match the Government data, instead it seems to be bullshit spin by those pushing an agenda.

    Try again with some real figures. Try a real source, with actual figures that can be analysed: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1124519/Planning_Application_Statistics_July_to_September_2022_Statistical_Release.pdf

    image

    Year ending 2021 Q3. 39.2k out of 52.9k residential applications decided were approved. 39.2/52.9 = 74.1%
    Year ending 2022 Q3. 36.3k out of 49.5k residential applications decided were approved. 36.9/49.5 = 74.5%

    9 out of 10 isn't sourced anywhere with data, merely a press release of somebody claiming its the figure. Its not.
    Now it is you who are showing you don't understnd the figures you are quoting and ironically are including all those loft conversions you mentioned.

    District Level planning applications are not just applications to build new houses. They incude conversions, cutting trees, painting houses in conservation areas, extensions, loft conversions and any number of other applications. Anything, basically, that needs planning permission.

    I can only assume you have done this out of ignorance because it is exactly what you wrongly accused me of just now. Unless you are accusing the LGA of lying - which would be daft because their figures were picked up, checked and repeated by any number of other interested parties - then I am afraid all you are proving here is your own ignorance.

    And if you look at the link I posted you will see that at the bottom it has the numbers for the number of planning applications granted and the number of completions - and the ever increasing difference between the two.

  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,841

    isam said:

    I'm trying to come up with a list of essential 90s tracks and am particularly looking for ones that been rather forgotten. Things like Regret by New Order, Yes by McAlmont/Butler, Wide Open Space by Mansun.

    Their performance of ‘Yes’ on Jools Holland is one my all time favourite renditions of a song - what a voice David McAlmont had

    ‘Miss Misery’ & ‘Angeles’ by Elliott Smith are great, and quite under the radar I think

    ‘For Tomorrow’ & ‘Chemical World’ by blur?

    ‘Then’ by The Charlatans?

    Enjoy The Silence - Depeche Mode (or failing that, I Feel You)
    I already had Enjoy The Silence but I didn't know I Feel You.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited November 2023
    Sunflower by Paul Weller
    Waking Up by Elastica
    Motorcycle Emptiness by Manic Street Preachers
    Come As You Are/Lithium/In Bloom/Smells Like Teen Spirit by Nirvana

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,161

    isam said:

    I'm trying to come up with a list of essential 90s tracks and am particularly looking for ones that been rather forgotten. Things like Regret by New Order, Yes by McAlmont/Butler, Wide Open Space by Mansun.

    Their performance of ‘Yes’ on Jools Holland is one my all time favourite renditions of a song - what a voice David McAlmont had

    ‘Miss Misery’ & ‘Angeles’ by Elliott Smith are great, and quite under the radar I think

    ‘For Tomorrow’ & ‘Chemical World’ by blur?

    ‘Then’ by The Charlatans?

    Enjoy The Silence - Depeche Mode (or failing that, I Feel You)
    "Words are very unnecessary; they can only cause harm"

    Love that line
  • I'm trying to come up with a list of essential 90s tracks and am particularly looking for ones that been rather forgotten. Things like Regret by New Order, Yes by McAlmont/Butler, Wide Open Space by Mansun.

    Ready to Go by Republica
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    .
    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Just keep on doing what you’re doing to me

    Wrong forum?
    It’s a line from “Thinking of You”

    Sister Sledge

    It really is one of the triumphant moments of pop
    music. Up there with MmmBop and There She Goes

    Pure joy turned into genius guitar and exuberant bass

    And it’s so happy. Pop music used to capture and distill happiness and mainline it into you

    https://youtu.be/9iUE4F9UHok?si=hJ2SlbQ3Rhrx5Syp
    I had a take about a decade ago that one of the big differences between pop music now and that of the 60s-80s was the lack of vulnerability shown/sadness that a relationship ended. Don’t know if that’s actually proven by the stats. I am so out of the loop now I wouldn’t know, but it seems to me that music is now more boastful and tough than it once was
    Something in that, however “Thinking of You” is about the sheer unadulterated joy of being in love: the pristine happiness. And, magically, the music captures that and shares it with the listener

    Sublime. As good as any single piece of classical music to my mind - and I love classical music
    Yes, what brought to mind my old thought was the vulnerability & lack of cynicism shown by the singer in “Thinking of You” - just flat out saying her man was what makes life living.
    Ah. I see. Then yes I agree

    Black music used to be so creative and joyous, one of the great artistic genres of human history - now it seems poisoned by violence, misogyny, vulgarity, monotony - rap, drill, r&b, drum n bass, more rap
    ‘Black music’ is not a musical genre, though African American musicians have helped birth several new musical forms.

    And a billion BTS fans disagree with you about rap. FWIW.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,995

    isam said:

    I'm trying to come up with a list of essential 90s tracks and am particularly looking for ones that been rather forgotten. Things like Regret by New Order, Yes by McAlmont/Butler, Wide Open Space by Mansun.

    Their performance of ‘Yes’ on Jools Holland is one my all time favourite renditions of a song - what a voice David McAlmont had

    ‘Miss Misery’ & ‘Angeles’ by Elliott Smith are great, and quite under the radar I think

    ‘For Tomorrow’ & ‘Chemical World’ by blur?

    ‘Then’ by The Charlatans?

    Enjoy The Silence - Depeche Mode (or failing that, I Feel You)
    I already had Enjoy The Silence but I didn't know I Feel You.
    This is where compilations are a life saver. They do the initial curation and then you can select from there. I would recommend:

    - Now 90s dancefloor (for the rave and dance stuff)
    - TFI Friday the album (for the guitar tracks)
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Live Forever by Oasis has to be on any ‘essential’ 90s playlist
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,841
    edited November 2023
    I should say it's designed as a playlist for a 90s themed evening so I'm not really looking for anything too downbeat. I've excluded Radiohead entirely for that reason. Sorry! The Bends is always a good listen if I've got housework to do.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    I should say it's designed as a playlist for a 90s themed evening so I'm not really looking for anything too downbeat. I've excluded Radiohead entirely for that reason. Sorry! The Bends is always a good listen if I've got housework to do.

    Girls & Boys
    Return of the Mack
    Wannabe
    Common People
    Disco 2000
    Brimful of Asha
    The Only One I Know
    Fastlove
    Sweet Like Chocolate
    Alright
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    Made it back to Jersey after a heart op in the UK and even though the drive home was in the dark I was staggered by the damage even though I had been keeping up with the news. Walls down everywhere, trees scattered like bowling pins. There is a beautiful road that is a tunnel of trees below that has apparently been wiped out. Roof tiles everywhere and all neighbours houses missing parts of their roof, mine seems remarkably well preserved.


  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,161

    I should say it's designed as a playlist for a 90s themed evening so I'm not really looking for anything too downbeat. I've excluded Radiohead entirely for that reason. Sorry! The Bends is always a good listen if I've got housework to do.

    What's downbeat about Anyone Can Play Guitar?
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486

    I should say it's designed as a playlist for a 90s themed evening so I'm not really looking for anything too downbeat. I've excluded Radiohead entirely for that reason. Sorry! The Bends is always a good listen if I've got housework to do.

    Sunshine on a rainy day by Zoe is suitably uplifting as someone already did Yes by McA and B.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,876

    Avoid London next weekend...




    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    22m
    So if the Met recognise the significance of these events, and wants to take a "robust approach", why not ask for the marches to be postponed.

    As they're testing a new signalling system on five Underground lines next Saturday, there are no tubes until 3pm on Saturday 11th. That may slow a few down a little.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,841
    edited November 2023
    isam said:

    I should say it's designed as a playlist for a 90s themed evening so I'm not really looking for anything too downbeat. I've excluded Radiohead entirely for that reason. Sorry! The Bends is always a good listen if I've got housework to do.

    Girls & Boys
    Return of the Mack
    Wannabe
    Common People
    Disco 2000
    Brimful of Asha
    The Only One I Know
    Fastlove
    Sweet Like Chocolate
    Alright
    The Spice Girls* have been omitted on principle. Most of the others I already have. I'll give Sweet Like Chocolate another listen.

    *Looking back what a weird phenomenon they were. Far inferior to Eternal I would say.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,161
    If we're doing essential 90s, can I recommend at least one track from Garbage?

    And while Moby is indisputably a cock, the 90s does include his two best albums: Play and Everything is Wrong.
  • rcs1000 said:

    If we're doing essential 90s, can I recommend at least one track from Garbage?

    And while Moby is indisputably a cock, the 90s does include his two best albums: Play and Everything is Wrong.

    I'm Only Happy When It Rains or Paranoid.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486

    isam said:

    I should say it's designed as a playlist for a 90s themed evening so I'm not really looking for anything too downbeat. I've excluded Radiohead entirely for that reason. Sorry! The Bends is always a good listen if I've got housework to do.

    Girls & Boys
    Return of the Mack
    Wannabe
    Common People
    Disco 2000
    Brimful of Asha
    The Only One I Know
    Fastlove
    Sweet Like Chocolate
    Alright
    The Spice Girls* have been omitted on principle. Most of the others I already have. I'll give Sweet Like Chocolate another listen.

    *Looking back what a weird phenomenon they were. Far inferior to Eternal I would say.
    Haddaway, “ what is love”and Londonbeat “I’ve been thinking about you” if you want some cheesy 90’s dance.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Politico.com About George Santos:
    He sent thank you notes to members who voted against expelling him this week
    And Jamie Raskin sent back a hand-edited response... correcting his grammar.

    George Santos sent thank you notes to members who voted against expelling him earlier this week.
    Democrat Jamie Raskin, who voted against the expulsion citing the precedent it could create, copy edited Santos’ letter by hand and sent it back to him.

    At least one recipient of the letter wasn’t impressed. Rep. Jamie Raskin (D-Md.), who voted against the expulsion citing the precedent it could create, copy edited Santos’ letter by hand and sent it back to him. . . .

    “I appreciate your note and only wish someone had proofread it first. Meantime, you should apologize to the people of New York for all of your lies and deceit.” he wrote, adding “P.S. It’s not shameful to resign.”

    https://www.politico.com/live-updates/2023/11/03/congress/santos-says-thanks-00125253

    [copy of Raskin's response]
    https://www.politico.com/f/?id=0000018b-9653-da71-a98f-b7f7e89d0000

    Politics attracts a pretty rum bunch of people: see also Senator Menendez of New Jersey.
    Correction - Senator Mendacious
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,161
    Did we include the Prodigy on our essential 90s?
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,841
    edited November 2023
    rcs1000 said:

    Did we include the Prodigy on our essential 90s?

    I've got No Good.

    Garbage - Stupid Girl.
  • rcs1000 said:

    isam said:

    I'm trying to come up with a list of essential 90s tracks and am particularly looking for ones that been rather forgotten. Things like Regret by New Order, Yes by McAlmont/Butler, Wide Open Space by Mansun.

    Their performance of ‘Yes’ on Jools Holland is one my all time favourite renditions of a song - what a voice David McAlmont had

    ‘Miss Misery’ & ‘Angeles’ by Elliott Smith are great, and quite under the radar I think

    ‘For Tomorrow’ & ‘Chemical World’ by blur?

    ‘Then’ by The Charlatans?

    Enjoy The Silence - Depeche Mode (or failing that, I Feel You)
    "Words are very unnecessary; they can only cause harm"

    Love that line
    Cool, although it's actually "They can only DO harm" :lol:
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    The fact that less than half of Labour cllrs are dissatisfied with Starmer's position on Palestine means he can ride it out, especially as they still support his progress on other matters. The Jewish vote is where he needs to make inroads given it went strongly Labour in 2019, the Muslim vote won't vote Tory on the whole even if dissatisfied with his Gaza position
  • dixiedean said:

    I'm trying to come up with a list of essential 90s tracks and am particularly looking for ones that been rather forgotten. Things like Regret by New Order, Yes by McAlmont/Butler, Wide Open Space by Mansun.

    Wrote for Luck Happy Mondays.

    Edit. Remarkably that was 1988.
    Well, my favourite decade was the 1980s anyway!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969

    Looks like the Remembrance Day demo is gonna be quite a confrontation.

    https://twitter.com/SuellaBraverman/status/1720469853520183565

    Suella: It is entirely unacceptable to desecrate Armistice Day with a hate march through London.
    If it goes ahead there is an obvious risk of serious public disorder, violence and damage as well as giving offence to millions of decent British people.

    A clear message to the Met
  • HYUFD said:

    The Jewish vote is where he needs to make inroads given it went strongly Labour in 2019

    I would have thought it went strongly to the Tories in 2019?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,173
    edited November 2023
    Sean_F said:

    Tory MP Bob Stewart found guilty of racial abuse

    Bob Stewart showed "racial hostility" towards a protester during a demonstration outside a Foreign Office building, a court heard.

    https://news.sky.com/story/tory-mp-bob-stewart-accused-of-racial-hostility-in-row-with-protester-12999493

    It seems like six of one, half a dozen of the other.
    Only one was found guilty of racially aggravated (something something something - I have not seen the precise offence reported).

    Byelection incoming? I'd say 25:1 against.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,668
    edited November 2023
    boulay said:

    Made it back to Jersey after a heart op in the UK and even though the drive home was in the dark I was staggered by the damage even though I had been keeping up with the news. Walls down everywhere, trees scattered like bowling pins. There is a beautiful road that is a tunnel of trees below that has apparently been wiped out. Roof tiles everywhere and all neighbours houses missing parts of their roof, mine seems remarkably well preserved.


    I believe the tornado (probably T5 on the Torro scale with winds up to 160mph) crossed the island from St Clements to Fliquet, so anywhere on a narrow line between the two will have been badly affected. A tornado of that strength will pretty much destroy every tree in the way.

    Outside of the narrow track of the tornado it will be "normal" wind damage from the gales.

    With tornadoes you often find badly damaged houses immediately adjacent to untouched ones. The gradient in wind strength is extremely high.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,173
    On the header, I wonder if a steady trickle of these types of Councillor defenestrating themselves is a plus for Mr Starmer?
  • kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:


    FPT re Starmers plans

    My thoughts exactly. Is Starmer ready to take on what must be a large element of his natural supporters. Those PBers laughing at Sunak tarmaccing over southern England havent realised Starmer wants to do it too.

    Likewise it is easy to announce the concept of housing and infrastructure. But where is he going to put them ? If he knows he will be asked to declare it cue the Nimbys and if he doesnt he wont be doing much in his term of office as it will take years to get stuff up and moving.

    In three or four safe Tory constituencies, I'd guess ?
    Or the new Lib Dem ones if he has a large enough majority.

    Rewrite the planning laws in the first six months.
    He was announcing expansion in the North East at lunchtime.

    But we are back to , if he doesnt have his plans in place now he lose will most of the next terms just getting to contract issuance. Then theres also the small matter of capacity. Its quite a jump to go from 250k houses p.a. to 500k with a construction industry which is hardly dynamic.
    No doubt they are gaming out how to balance the political and practical imperatives, and whatever they end up will be some sort of compromise. Which you'll quite fairly critique.

    But it will be a serious improvement on what we have now, if they just make it the priority, at the beginning of their first Parliament.

    And there's always the second term...
    As I said Im fully behind the aim. But I suspect he'll back off if he meets much opposition.
    I'm not a Starmer advocate, so I'm not going to argue the point.
    But it ought not to be impossible for a determined PM with a decent majority.

    The appeal for him is that the greatest demand is in the southeast, where he has the least to lose. It ought not to take a political genius to see that as a golden opportunity to deliver meaningful change.
    Depends what that change is of course I cant see it being much by way of the productive economy. If he concentrates on the South East he gets whacked twice over. Blue Wall nimbyism while Red Wall say London gets everything. A difficult balancing act.

    Really he should be pushing more growth to the North and trying to regenerate some of our struggling towns. But you cant just build towns willy nilly they need productive output and thats where Im not clear on how his economic policy ( zilch ) is going to help out.
    There are currently plans to convert many thousands of hectares of land in Lincolnshire into solar parks. I would have thought, if the land is being taken out of agricultural usage anyway, then it would be far better to build houses on all that same land and then stick solar panels on all the roofs. Build some new towns rather than messing around with little bits here and there.
    Yes I agree, but do the planning laws also get relaxed outisde the new towns ? I live in a village with a population of 800. I would quite happily see it double in size over time if it was done sensibly ( ie not graft an executive mega estate on the side ). The village needs people if it is to keep its basic amenities going and preferably get some of them back.
    In spite of Bart's idiotic claims, it is not the planning laws which are at fault for the lack of building. That is a myth spread by developers. The number of plots with full planning permission that are undeveloped has been increasing by over 10% a year for many years. Over 90% of housing developments get approval without reference to the Inspectorate and in many cases those that are refused are on technical grounds which are subsequently overturned.

    The idea that Nimbyism or planning is the main factor holding up increased housebuilding does not stand up to a minutes' scrutiny.

    One of the problems you do have with smaller village developments is that the houses often are quite difficult to sell, at least in the timescale that the developers want. Hence the reason they prefer to build around larger towns.
    It's definitely not the only reason, as developers are indeed sh*ts. They in fact benefit from delaying, and councils get punished for their actions.

    But given the great political benefit that there appears to be in being NIMBY, which is why MPs and councillors pander to it whenever they can (against national and local policy from those taking a broader view) I find it very hard to believe it is not a significant issue, because it is demonstrative of the public attitude that there is a problem, but we can solve it with a magic wand or it is always the case that it must not be solved wherever they are.

    I've seen far too many objections to utterly harmless development with pathetic fig leaf justifications, or objections to the solutions of things they claimed were the reason for objection, to conclude it is not a significant negative influence on why we have gotten into this mess.

    Developers simply make it so much worse because they exploit the crappy rules in other aspects.
    Most of the NIMBYism appears to be non-housing though (roads, wind farms, phone masts etc). As I say, given that over 90% of housing planning applications are approved without reference to the Inspectorate, it seems unlikely that it is a major factor in preventing housing developments.

    Certainly in the case of the larger developments such as the Growth Points which were approved over a decade and a half ago, NIMBYism could not play a part because the planning and approvals were done in secret and only announced to the public once it was a done deal. Many of those houses still haven't been built.
    [Citation needed] on 90% claim since last time we discussed this a third of housing applications were rejected.

    And that's without considering the potential homes never built in the first place as people never put in an application in the first place.

    NIMBYism does play a part because why aren't other builders building on other land beyond what has been agreed in deals? They can't because they can't get permission.
    You are getting desperate again Bart. I cited the 90% claim in my original posting upthread. And no, it was not 30% rejected last time we discussed this. That was your false figures. It has been 90%+ every time from my side. Indeed after appeal it is up to 95%.

    The rest of your comment is just special pleading based on no evidence at all. You comprehensively lost the 'planning permission is stopping development' argument last time so you have switched to the 'wrong sort of developers' argument. Neither are valid.
    No, your 90% claim last time was based on false data by misreading overall planning applications, of which 90% was for existing dwellings to have eg loft conversions/extensions/conservatories etc, it was a third rejected for new build housing.

    You say you have cited it up thread, I've just scanned the thread and can't see any such citation or any hyperlink at all. Please provide a link to any such citation as I've given you them before and you stopped repeating the 90% claim for a while so I'm shocked to see you back on it.

    Planning permission 100% is stopping development, our planning system means competitors can't get build at will on land, simply saying "well they have permission so nobody else needs it" doesn't cut the mustard.
    The link I included earlier in the thread that you somehow missed

    https://www.local.gov.uk/about/news/housing-backlog-more-million-homes-planning-permission-not-yet-built

    Including the line:

    "The number of planning permissions granted for new homes has almost doubled since 2012/13 with councils approving 9 in 10 applications."

    Not existing dwellings, not loft conversions, new homes.

    It is you who are misrepresenting the data because it doesn't suit your argument.
    That quote does not contain any data and does not match the Government data, instead it seems to be bullshit spin by those pushing an agenda.

    Try again with some real figures. Try a real source, with actual figures that can be analysed: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1124519/Planning_Application_Statistics_July_to_September_2022_Statistical_Release.pdf

    image

    Year ending 2021 Q3. 39.2k out of 52.9k residential applications decided were approved. 39.2/52.9 = 74.1%
    Year ending 2022 Q3. 36.3k out of 49.5k residential applications decided were approved. 36.9/49.5 = 74.5%

    9 out of 10 isn't sourced anywhere with data, merely a press release of somebody claiming its the figure. Its not.
    Now it is you who are showing you don't understnd the figures you are quoting and ironically are including all those loft conversions you mentioned.

    District Level planning applications are not just applications to build new houses. They incude conversions, cutting trees, painting houses in conservation areas, extensions, loft conversions and any number of other applications. Anything, basically, that needs planning permission.

    I can only assume you have done this out of ignorance because it is exactly what you wrongly accused me of just now. Unless you are accusing the LGA of lying - which would be daft because their figures were picked up, checked and repeated by any number of other interested parties - then I am afraid all you are proving here is your own ignorance.

    And if you look at the link I posted you will see that at the bottom it has the numbers for the number of planning applications granted and the number of completions - and the ever increasing difference between the two.

    No you are misunderstanding the data. And yes I am accusing the LGA spokesperson of engaging in spin, they are using the overall figure and misrepresentating it as the residential figure.

    Yes I understand that residential developments only make a small percentage of overall applications, that's why the overall figure above was 10x higher.

    More up to date information available here: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/planning-applications-in-england-october-to-december-2022/planning-applications-in-england-october-to-december-2022#decisions-granted

    4.4 Residential decisions
    In October to December 2022, 12,200 decisions were made on applications for residential developments[footnote 3], of which 8,800 (72%) were granted. The number of residential decisions made was down 5% from the same quarter a year earlier, with the number granted down 7% from the same quarter a year earlier. 1,200 major residential decisions were granted, down 2% from the same quarter a year earlier and 7,700 major residential decisions were granted, down 7% from the same quarter a year earlier (Live Table P120A, PS2 Dashboard).

    In the year ending December 2022, 48,700 decisions were made on applications for residential developments, of which 35,600 (73%) were granted. The number of residential decisions made was down 6% from the previous year, with the number granted down 6% from the previous year. 4,400 major residential decisions were granted, down 8% from the previous year and 31,200 minor residential decisions were granted, down 8% from the previous year.


    And for the definition of residential decisions in Footnote 3: ‘Residential’ is used in this release to refer only to developments involving the construction or conversion of dwellings, rather than also including other developments involving people’s homes, such as householder developments and some changes of use. ↩

    The figure is 73% currently. That's a fact, with a source and a definition.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,161
    isam said:

    Sunflower by Paul Weller
    Waking Up by Elastica
    Motorcycle Emptiness by Manic Street Preachers
    Come As You Are/Lithium/In Bloom/Smells Like Teen Spirit by Nirvana

    Waking Up vs 2:1... that's a difficult call: two superb songs.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073

    rcs1000 said:

    Politico.com About George Santos:
    He sent thank you notes to members who voted against expelling him this week
    And Jamie Raskin sent back a hand-edited response... correcting his grammar.

    George Santos sent thank you notes to members who voted against expelling him earlier this week.
    Democrat Jamie Raskin, who voted against the expulsion citing the precedent it could create, copy edited Santos’ letter by hand and sent it back to him.

    At least one recipient of the letter wasn’t impressed. Rep. Jamie Raskin (D-Md.), who voted against the expulsion citing the precedent it could create, copy edited Santos’ letter by hand and sent it back to him. . . .

    “I appreciate your note and only wish someone had proofread it first. Meantime, you should apologize to the people of New York for all of your lies and deceit.” he wrote, adding “P.S. It’s not shameful to resign.”

    https://www.politico.com/live-updates/2023/11/03/congress/santos-says-thanks-00125253

    [copy of Raskin's response]
    https://www.politico.com/f/?id=0000018b-9653-da71-a98f-b7f7e89d0000

    Politics attracts a pretty rum bunch of people: see also Senator Menendez of New Jersey.
    Correction - Senator Mendacious
    Great name for a rapper.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    rcs1000 said:

    Did we include the Prodigy on our essential 90s?

    I've got No Good.

    Garbage - Stupid Girl.
    Dizzy by Vic Reeves
    Rythym is a Dancer by Snap
    Get off by Prince
    She Comes in the Fall by Inspiral Carpets
    Push it by Salt n Pepa

    My mate always used to request that last one if no girls were dancing/we hadn’t pulled in a club when we were 21 ish - it did used to fill the dance floor with some eyebrow raising moves

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    'When Jeremy Corbyn became leader of the Labour Party in 2015 there was dismay that the centre-Left had become politically homeless. It’s now almost certain this trauma is about to be inflicted on the centre-Right. Defeat in next year’s general election will set loose populist factions waiting in the corners of a Conservative Party already falling into disarray.' Tonight's Evening Standard
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/torbynism-conservatives-tory-party-nigel-farage-b1117947.html
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,636
    edited November 2023
    My 90s soundtrack

    1) Whatever by Oasis

    2) Relight My Fire by Take That

    3) Smack My Bitch Up by The Prodigy

    4) Only Happens When It Rains by Garbage

    5) Mo Money, Mo Problems by The Notorious B.I.G.

    6) Barbie Girl by Aqua (Shut up, it takes me back to my uni days)

    7) Under The Bridge by The Red Hot Chili Peppers

    8) Basket Case by Green Day

    9) Tragedy by Steps (Shut up see song 6)

    10) Hurt by Nine Inch Nails

    11) Kelly's Heroes by Black Grape

    12) One More Time by Daft Punk

    13) No Limit by 2Unlimited

    14) Se A Vida é by Pet Shop Boys

    15) Laid by James

    16) Peaches by The Presidents of the USA


    17) What Is Love by Haddaway

    But my songs listings change a lot.
  • boulay said:

    isam said:

    I should say it's designed as a playlist for a 90s themed evening so I'm not really looking for anything too downbeat. I've excluded Radiohead entirely for that reason. Sorry! The Bends is always a good listen if I've got housework to do.

    Girls & Boys
    Return of the Mack
    Wannabe
    Common People
    Disco 2000
    Brimful of Asha
    The Only One I Know
    Fastlove
    Sweet Like Chocolate
    Alright
    The Spice Girls* have been omitted on principle. Most of the others I already have. I'll give Sweet Like Chocolate another listen.

    *Looking back what a weird phenomenon they were. Far inferior to Eternal I would say.
    Haddaway, “ what is love”and Londonbeat “I’ve been thinking about you” if you want some cheesy 90’s dance.
    Haddaway always amused us as students in Newcastle as it appears to reference the Geordie phrase "Haddaway an' shite", ie fuck off.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,161
    isam said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Did we include the Prodigy on our essential 90s?

    I've got No Good.

    Garbage - Stupid Girl.
    Dizzy by Vic Reeves
    Rythym is a Dancer by Snap
    Get off by Prince
    She Comes in the Fall by Inspiral Carpets
    Push it by Salt n Pepa

    My mate always used to request that last one if no girls were dancing/we hadn’t pulled in a club when we were 21 ish - it did used to fill the dance floor with some eyebrow raising moves

    If we're doing 90s dancefloor classics, what about this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFJdUJg4wOk&t=4s&ab_channel=slycro

    (Superb video too()
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    MattW said:

    On the header, I wonder if a steady trickle of these types of Councillor defenestrating themselves is a plus for Mr Starmer?

    I’d say so - the slightly right of centre types who Sir Keir is trying to attract aren’t going to be put off voting Labour by a load of Islamic councillors quitting over Palestine
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    Trains.

    Or rather non-existent trains from Avanti which stopped the train home halfway up the West Coast so that now I am on my 3rd train with another one still to go in my now interminable attempt to get home before the weekend.

    Relatedly Avanti's App features a tortoise.

    I'm not a marketing person but that strikes me as an odd choice. Accurate. But odd.
  • Cyclefree said:

    Trains.

    Or rather non-existent trains from Avanti which stopped the train home halfway up the West Coast so that now I am on my 3rd train with another one still to go in my now interminable attempt to get home before the weekend.

    Relatedly Avanti's App features a tortoise.

    I'm not a marketing person but that strikes me as an odd choice. Accurate. But odd.

    A tortoise on rollerskates.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited November 2023
    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Did we include the Prodigy on our essential 90s?

    I've got No Good.

    Garbage - Stupid Girl.
    Dizzy by Vic Reeves
    Rythym is a Dancer by Snap
    Get off by Prince
    She Comes in the Fall by Inspiral Carpets
    Push it by Salt n Pepa

    My mate always used to request that last one if no girls were dancing/we hadn’t pulled in a club when we were 21 ish - it did used to fill the dance floor with some eyebrow raising moves

    If we're doing 90s dancefloor classics, what about this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFJdUJg4wOk&t=4s&ab_channel=slycro

    (Superb video too()


    I really liked their song ’Move Any Mountain’. - I was a real nerd on music in the 90s, hence my zeal in answering Frank booths question!

    Four non blondes - ‘What’s going On?’ is another essential
  • isam said:

    s
    Push it by Salt n Pepa

    1988, mate!
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    s
    Push it by Salt n Pepa

    1988, mate!
    Thought it might have been 80s. The request for it to fill the dance floor with writhing women was in the 90s though!
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,091
    Madeley. Although, as any fule kno, Richard Madeley based his act on Partridge.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310

    Cyclefree said:

    Trains.

    Or rather non-existent trains from Avanti which stopped the train home halfway up the West Coast so that now I am on my 3rd train with another one still to go in my now interminable attempt to get home before the weekend.

    Relatedly Avanti's App features a tortoise.

    I'm not a marketing person but that strikes me as an odd choice. Accurate. But odd.

    A tortoise on rollerskates.
    Which don't work.
  • Cyclefree said:

    Trains.

    Or rather non-existent trains from Avanti which stopped the train home halfway up the West Coast so that now I am on my 3rd train with another one still to go in my now interminable attempt to get home before the weekend.

    Relatedly Avanti's App features a tortoise.

    I'm not a marketing person but that strikes me as an odd choice. Accurate. But odd.

    A tortoise on rollerskates.
    Remember, the tortoise beat the hare!
  • Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Trains.

    Or rather non-existent trains from Avanti which stopped the train home halfway up the West Coast so that now I am on my 3rd train with another one still to go in my now interminable attempt to get home before the weekend.

    Relatedly Avanti's App features a tortoise.

    I'm not a marketing person but that strikes me as an odd choice. Accurate. But odd.

    A tortoise on rollerskates.
    Which don't work.
    Avanti on Saturdays is a no brainer.

    Train operator Avanti West Coast will be cancelling nearly 20 services every Saturday between London Euston and Manchester Piccadilly until the end of the year.

    It had earlier announced plans to scrap two in five of the trains it runs on the popular route from December 9.

    However the BBC understands the reduced timetable will start immediately.

    First reported by the Sunday Times newspaper, Avanti blamed a shortage of train crew and industrial disputes.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67257969
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,592
    James "Sit Down" was a nice one - often played last thing at a club to chill out a little.

    Although it sorta doesn't qualify - it was apparently first released in June 1989, and was not a hit. It was then re-released in a shorter form in 1991 and got to No. 2. (According to Wiki...)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sit_Down_(song)
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,994
    edited November 2023

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:


    FPT re Starmers plans

    My thoughts exactly. Is Starmer ready to take on what must be a large element of his natural supporters. Those PBers laughing at Sunak tarmaccing over southern England havent realised Starmer wants to do it too.

    Likewise it is easy to announce the concept of housing and infrastructure. But where is he going to put them ? If he knows he will be asked to declare it cue the Nimbys and if he doesnt he wont be doing much in his term of office as it will take years to get stuff up and moving.

    In three or four safe Tory constituencies, I'd guess ?
    Or the new Lib Dem ones if he has a large enough majority.

    Rewrite the planning laws in the first six months.
    He was announcing expansion in the North East at lunchtime.

    But we are back to , if he doesnt have his plans in place now he lose will most of the next terms just getting to contract issuance. Then theres also the small matter of capacity. Its quite a jump to go from 250k houses p.a. to 500k with a construction industry which is hardly dynamic.
    No doubt they are gaming out how to balance the political and practical imperatives, and whatever they end up will be some sort of compromise. Which you'll quite fairly critique.

    But it will be a serious improvement on what we have now, if they just make it the priority, at the beginning of their first Parliament.

    And there's always the second term...
    As I said Im fully behind the aim. But I suspect he'll back off if he meets much opposition.
    I'm not a Starmer advocate, so I'm not going to argue the point.
    But it ought not to be impossible for a determined PM with a decent majority.

    The appeal for him is that the greatest demand is in the southeast, where he has the least to lose. It ought not to take a political genius to see that as a golden opportunity to deliver meaningful change.
    Depends what that change is of course I cant see it being much by way of the productive economy. If he concentrates on the South East he gets whacked twice over. Blue Wall nimbyism while Red Wall say London gets everything. A difficult balancing act.

    Really he should be pushing more growth to the North and trying to regenerate some of our struggling towns. But you cant just build towns willy nilly they need productive output and thats where Im not clear on how his economic policy ( zilch ) is going to help out.
    There are currently plans to convert many thousands of hectares of land in Lincolnshire into solar parks. I would have thought, if the land is being taken out of agricultural usage anyway, then it would be far better to build houses on all that same land and then stick solar panels on all the roofs. Build some new towns rather than messing around with little bits here and there.
    Yes I agree, but do the planning laws also get relaxed outisde the new towns ? I live in a village with a population of 800. I would quite happily see it double in size over time if it was done sensibly ( ie not graft an executive mega estate on the side ). The village needs people if it is to keep its basic amenities going and preferably get some of them back.
    In spite of Bart's idiotic claims, it is not the planning laws which are at fault for the lack of building. That is a myth spread by developers. The number of plots with full planning permission that are undeveloped has been increasing by over 10% a year for many years. Over 90% of housing developments get approval without reference to the Inspectorate and in many cases those that are refused are on technical grounds which are subsequently overturned.

    The idea that Nimbyism or planning is the main factor holding up increased housebuilding does not stand up to a minutes' scrutiny.

    One of the problems you do have with smaller village developments is that the houses often are quite difficult to sell, at least in the timescale that the developers want. Hence the reason they prefer to build around larger towns.
    It's definitely not the only reason, as developers are indeed sh*ts. They in fact benefit from delaying, and councils get punished for their actions.

    But given the great political benefit that there appears to be in being NIMBY, which is why MPs and councillors pander to it whenever they can (against national and local policy from those taking a broader view) I find it very hard to believe it is not a significant issue, because it is demonstrative of the public attitude that there is a problem, but we can solve it with a magic wand or it is always the case that it must not be solved wherever they are.

    I've seen far too many objections to utterly harmless development with pathetic fig leaf justifications, or objections to the solutions of things they claimed were the reason for objection, to conclude it is not a significant negative influence on why we have gotten into this mess.

    Developers simply make it so much worse because they exploit the crappy rules in other aspects.
    Most of the NIMBYism appears to be non-housing though (roads, wind farms, phone masts etc). As I say, given that over 90% of housing planning applications are approved without reference to the Inspectorate, it seems unlikely that it is a major factor in preventing housing developments.

    Certainly in the case of the larger developments such as the Growth Points which were approved over a decade and a half ago, NIMBYism could not play a part because the planning and approvals were done in secret and only announced to the public once it was a done deal. Many of those houses still haven't been built.
    [Citation needed] on 90% claim since last time we discussed this a third of housing applications were rejected.

    And that's without considering the potential homes never built in the first place as people never put in an application in the first place.

    NIMBYism does play a part because why aren't other builders building on other land beyond what has been agreed in deals? They can't because they can't get permission.
    You are getting desperate again Bart. I cited the 90% claim in my original posting upthread. And no, it was not 30% rejected last time we discussed this. That was your false figures. It has been 90%+ every time from my side. Indeed after appeal it is up to 95%.

    The rest of your comment is just special pleading based on no evidence at all. You comprehensively lost the 'planning permission is stopping development' argument last time so you have switched to the 'wrong sort of developers' argument. Neither are valid.
    No, your 90% claim last time was based on false data by misreading overall planning applications, of which 90% was for existing dwellings to have eg loft conversions/extensions/conservatories etc, it was a third rejected for new build housing.

    You say you have cited it up thread, I've just scanned the thread and can't see any such citation or any hyperlink at all. Please provide a link to any such citation as I've given you them before and you stopped repeating the 90% claim for a while so I'm shocked to see you back on it.

    Planning permission 100% is stopping development, our planning system means competitors can't get build at will on land, simply saying "well they have permission so nobody else needs it" doesn't cut the mustard.
    The link I included earlier in the thread that you somehow missed

    https://www.local.gov.uk/about/news/housing-backlog-more-million-homes-planning-permission-not-yet-built

    Including the line:

    "The number of planning permissions granted for new homes has almost doubled since 2012/13 with councils approving 9 in 10 applications."

    Not existing dwellings, not loft conversions, new homes.

    It is you who are misrepresenting the data because it doesn't suit your argument.
    That quote does not contain any data and does not match the Government data, instead it seems to be bullshit spin by those pushing an agenda.

    Try again with some real figures. Try a real source, with actual figures that can be analysed: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1124519/Planning_Application_Statistics_July_to_September_2022_Statistical_Release.pdf

    image

    Year ending 2021 Q3. 39.2k out of 52.9k residential applications decided were approved. 39.2/52.9 = 74.1%
    Year ending 2022 Q3. 36.3k out of 49.5k residential applications decided were approved. 36.9/49.5 = 74.5%

    9 out of 10 isn't sourced anywhere with data, merely a press release of somebody claiming its the figure. Its not.
    Now it is you who are showing you don't understnd the figures you are quoting and ironically are including all those loft conversions you mentioned.

    District Level planning applications are not just applications to build new houses. They incude conversions, cutting trees, painting houses in conservation areas, extensions, loft conversions and any number of other applications. Anything, basically, that needs planning permission.

    I can only assume you have done this out of ignorance because it is exactly what you wrongly accused me of just now. Unless you are accusing the LGA of lying - which would be daft because their figures were picked up, checked and repeated by any number of other interested parties - then I am afraid all you are proving here is your own ignorance.

    And if you look at the link I posted you will see that at the bottom it has the numbers for the number of planning applications granted and the number of completions - and the ever increasing difference between the two.

    No you are misunderstanding the data. And yes I am accusing the LGA spokesperson of engaging in spin, they are using the overall figure and misrepresentating it as the residential figure.

    Yes I understand that residential developments only make a small percentage of overall applications, that's why the overall figure above was 10x higher.

    More up to date information available here: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/planning-applications-in-england-october-to-december-2022/planning-applications-in-england-october-to-december-2022#decisions-granted

    4.4 Residential decisions
    In October to December 2022, 12,200 decisions were made on applications for residential developments[footnote 3], of which 8,800 (72%) were granted. The number of residential decisions made was down 5% from the same quarter a year earlier, with the number granted down 7% from the same quarter a year earlier. 1,200 major residential decisions were granted, down 2% from the same quarter a year earlier and 7,700 major residential decisions were granted, down 7% from the same quarter a year earlier (Live Table P120A, PS2 Dashboard).

    In the year ending December 2022, 48,700 decisions were made on applications for residential developments, of which 35,600 (73%) were granted. The number of residential decisions made was down 6% from the previous year, with the number granted down 6% from the previous year. 4,400 major residential decisions were granted, down 8% from the previous year and 31,200 minor residential decisions were granted, down 8% from the previous year.


    And for the definition of residential decisions in Footnote 3: ‘Residential’ is used in this release to refer only to developments involving the construction or conversion of dwellings, rather than also including other developments involving people’s homes, such as householder developments and some changes of use. ↩

    The figure is 73% currently. That's a fact, with a source and a definition.
    Incidentally @Richard_Tyndall not only is the Government explicitly saying 72% as a figure, they're also giving a much lower figure for approvals than the LGA data with spin and an agenda you're quoting. The LGA figure claims 380k approvals in 2017/18 and 362k for 2018/19, while the figure the Government has is 322k, 318k and 322k for 2017, 2018 and 2019 respectively.

    With this caveat: When considering the above figures in relation to the central government ambition of raising housing supply to 300,000 homes per year on average by the mid-2020s, it should be noted that many permissions do not result in a home being delivered in practice. This is due to a range of reasons, relating to the circumstances of landowners and developers, as well as the local and national economy. In addition, i) time lags in building can affect the number of homes built in a particular period; and ii) the methodology used cannot guarantee that all double counting of permissions is removed from the above figures.

    Looks like the LGA figures you've been parroting haven't even attempted to remove the double-counting of permissions. Probably because that doesn't suit their agenda.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,091

    rcs1000 said:

    Did we include the Prodigy on our essential 90s?

    Garbage - Stupid Girl...
    ...is the right answer :)


  • viewcode said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Did we include the Prodigy on our essential 90s?

    Garbage - Stupid Girl...
    ...is the right answer :)


    My lifelong love of redheads began with Shirley Manson.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,091
    You will also need

    Something by Massive Attack
    Insomnia
    Something by the Utah Saints
    It's a Fine Day
    Little Fluffy Clouds
    Something by the Shamen
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840

    If Suella Braverman is Home Secretary on general election day then I will be voting Labour.



    https://twitter.com/prospect_clark/status/1720540465831768527

    Mm. Rather like the RNLI, only inland. Though the RNLI stuff was a predecessor of Ms Braverman's, to be fair.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,792

    My 90s soundtrack

    1) Whatever by Oasis

    2) Relight My Fire by Take That

    3) Smack My Bitch Up by The Prodigy

    4) Only Happens When It Rains by Garbage

    5) Mo Money, Mo Problems by The Notorious B.I.G.

    6) Barbie Girl by Aqua (Shut up, it takes me back to my uni days)

    7) Under The Bridge by The Red Hot Chili Peppers

    8) Basket Case by Green Day

    9) Tragedy by Steps (Shut up see song 6)

    10) Hurt by Nine Inch Nails

    11) Kelly's Heroes by Black Grape

    12) One More Time by Daft Punk

    13) No Limit by 2Unlimited

    14) Se A Vida é by Pet Shop Boys

    15) Laid by James

    16) Peaches by The Presidents of the USA


    17) What Is Love by Haddaway

    But my songs listings change a lot.

    I'd have to shove in :

    * A Spiritualized track in there (maybe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pm9bHHnz-cg),

    * Possibly the Happy Mondays seeing the decade in (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFBQ0PH5rM4),

    * Public Enemy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrFOb_f7ubw),

    * The Aphex Twin (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZ827lkktYs),

    * Bjork (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLF-_Z8TK1k)

    * Fatboy Slim (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruAi4VBoBSM)

    * Chemical Brothers (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5FyfQDO5g0)

    * Mazzy Star (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImKY6TZEyrI)

    * PJ Harvey (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvMMEX_7Dlw)

    * Beastie Boys - Sabotage (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5rRZdiu1UE)

    * Atari Teenage Riot (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4qLrsRhhZE)

    I'll stop there...
  • My 90s soundtrack

    1) Whatever by Oasis

    2) Relight My Fire by Take That

    3) Smack My Bitch Up by The Prodigy

    4) Only Happens When It Rains by Garbage

    5) Mo Money, Mo Problems by The Notorious B.I.G.

    6) Barbie Girl by Aqua (Shut up, it takes me back to my uni days)

    7) Under The Bridge by The Red Hot Chili Peppers

    8) Basket Case by Green Day

    9) Tragedy by Steps (Shut up see song 6)

    10) Hurt by Nine Inch Nails

    11) Kelly's Heroes by Black Grape

    12) One More Time by Daft Punk

    13) No Limit by 2Unlimited

    14) Se A Vida é by Pet Shop Boys

    15) Laid by James

    16) Peaches by The Presidents of the USA


    17) What Is Love by Haddaway

    But my songs listings change a lot.

    A while back I tried to find the video of 'Smack My Bitch Up' (with its twist at the end) on YouTube, but it doesn't appear to exist in its entirety (or it didn't when I looked).
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    edited November 2023

    My 90s soundtrack

    1) Whatever by Oasis

    2) Relight My Fire by Take That

    3) Smack My Bitch Up by The Prodigy

    4) Only Happens When It Rains by Garbage

    5) Mo Money, Mo Problems by The Notorious B.I.G.

    6) Barbie Girl by Aqua (Shut up, it takes me back to my uni days)

    7) Under The Bridge by The Red Hot Chili Peppers

    8) Basket Case by Green Day

    9) Tragedy by Steps (Shut up see song 6)

    10) Hurt by Nine Inch Nails

    11) Kelly's Heroes by Black Grape

    12) One More Time by Daft Punk

    13) No Limit by 2Unlimited

    14) Se A Vida é by Pet Shop Boys

    15) Laid by James

    16) Peaches by The Presidents of the USA


    17) What Is Love by Haddaway

    But my songs listings change a lot.

    I am unaware of any of that list of songs.. I must be getting old.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,792
    viewcode said:

    You will also need

    Something by Massive Attack
    Insomnia
    Something by the Utah Saints
    It's a Fine Day
    Little Fluffy Clouds
    Something by the Shamen

    And Portishead now that I think of it.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,671
    Sunak has apparently looked at the north-west of England and decided that London/Home Counties should replicate it. The levelling down agenda.

    - Cancel public transport infrastructure
    - Plaster with motorways
    - Cover remaining patches with Barratt Homes, artificial grass and XL Bullies
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Trains.

    Or rather non-existent trains from Avanti which stopped the train home halfway up the West Coast so that now I am on my 3rd train with another one still to go in my now interminable attempt to get home before the weekend.

    Relatedly Avanti's App features a tortoise.

    I'm not a marketing person but that strikes me as an odd choice. Accurate. But odd.

    A tortoise on rollerskates.
    Which don't work.
    Avanti on Saturdays is a no brainer.

    Train operator Avanti West Coast will be cancelling nearly 20 services every Saturday between London Euston and Manchester Piccadilly until the end of the year.

    It had earlier announced plans to scrap two in five of the trains it runs on the popular route from December 9.

    However the BBC understands the reduced timetable will start immediately.

    First reported by the Sunday Times newspaper, Avanti blamed a shortage of train crew and industrial disputes.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67257969
    Nothing like reminding the Mancs that in certain folk's view they don't rate as Homo sapiens, or at least don't deserve a decent train service to the main ar ... er, black hole of the UK.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Trains.

    Or rather non-existent trains from Avanti which stopped the train home halfway up the West Coast so that now I am on my 3rd train with another one still to go in my now interminable attempt to get home before the weekend.

    Relatedly Avanti's App features a tortoise.

    I'm not a marketing person but that strikes me as an odd choice. Accurate. But odd.

    A tortoise on rollerskates.
    Which don't work.
    Avanti on Saturdays is a no brainer.

    Train operator Avanti West Coast will be cancelling nearly 20 services every Saturday between London Euston and Manchester Piccadilly until the end of the year.

    It had earlier announced plans to scrap two in five of the trains it runs on the popular route from December 9.

    However the BBC understands the reduced timetable will start immediately.

    First reported by the Sunday Times newspaper, Avanti blamed a shortage of train crew and industrial disputes.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67257969
    Now they’ve got their contract renewed, there’s no reason for them to care. Also part of the Government’s plan to shit on the North.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969

    HYUFD said:

    The Jewish vote is where he needs to make inroads given it went strongly Labour in 2019

    I would have thought it went strongly to the Tories in 2019?
    It did, hence he needs to make inroads, especially to win Jewish heavy Tory marginal seats like Hendon and Chipping Barnet and Finchley
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    Eabhal said:

    Sunak has apparently looked at the north-west of England and decided that London/Home Counties should replicate it. The levelling down agenda.

    - Cancel public transport infrastructure
    - Plaster with motorways
    - Cover remaining patches with Barratt Homes, artificial grass and XL Bullies

    XLBs so long as they have muzzles and no bollocks.

    Rather more worryingly, whatever is bred to replace them won't be covered by the 'breed' specific legislation.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664

    If Suella Braverman is Home Secretary on general election day then I will be voting Labour.



    https://twitter.com/prospect_clark/status/1720540465831768527

    Next up: make it an offence to give food to food banks?
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,841

    James "Sit Down" was a nice one - often played last thing at a club to chill out a little.

    Although it sorta doesn't qualify - it was apparently first released in June 1989, and was not a hit. It was then re-released in a shorter form in 1991 and got to No. 2. (According to Wiki...)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sit_Down_(song)

    I hadn't realised it was initially released in the 80s. I disregarded Pure by The Lightning Seeds on that basis! James had a few good tracks - Laid, She's A Star, Fred Astaire.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited November 2023
    On TOTP 95 tonight

    This is



  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    viewcode said:

    Madeley. Although, as any fule kno, Richard Madeley based his act on Partridge.
    Thanks Viewcode - before I had my op I gave Viewcode a heads up, as the official keeper of the list of PB Fallen, that he could pronounce my demise if I hadn’t posted after a couple of weeks. I was extremely concerned that my future non posting was noted as due to mere death rather than the horror of being thought to have flounced.

    So remember PB’ers, if you are about to have a quack sticking things in vital bits of your body, and I don’t mean Leon and his products, give Viewcode advance warning rather than risk being thought a flouncer.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Trains.

    Or rather non-existent trains from Avanti which stopped the train home halfway up the West Coast so that now I am on my 3rd train with another one still to go in my now interminable attempt to get home before the weekend.

    Relatedly Avanti's App features a tortoise.

    I'm not a marketing person but that strikes me as an odd choice. Accurate. But odd.

    A tortoise on rollerskates.
    Which don't work.
    Avanti on Saturdays is a no brainer.

    Train operator Avanti West Coast will be cancelling nearly 20 services every Saturday between London Euston and Manchester Piccadilly until the end of the year.

    It had earlier announced plans to scrap two in five of the trains it runs on the popular route from December 9.

    However the BBC understands the reduced timetable will start immediately.

    First reported by the Sunday Times newspaper, Avanti blamed a shortage of train crew and industrial disputes.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67257969
    I'm driving next time.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931
    ohnotnow said:

    viewcode said:

    You will also need

    Something by Massive Attack
    Insomnia
    Something by the Utah Saints
    It's a Fine Day
    Little Fluffy Clouds
    Something by the Shamen

    And Portishead now that I think of it.
    Absolutely! Glory Box!
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,792

    If Suella Braverman is Home Secretary on general election day then I will be voting Labour.



    https://twitter.com/prospect_clark/status/1720540465831768527

    Next up: make it an offence to give food to food banks?
    If she's making a leadership bit then giving to food 'pantries' might make more sense.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,173
    isam said:

    MattW said:

    On the header, I wonder if a steady trickle of these types of Councillor defenestrating themselves is a plus for Mr Starmer?

    I’d say so - the slightly right of centre types who Sir Keir is trying to attract aren’t going to be put off voting Labour by a load of Islamic councillors quitting over Palestine
    One of his remaining issues is that there are still 35 MPs listed as being in the Socialist Campaign Group.

    Though it now allows in all MPs, not just Labour MPs - perhaps to protect Mr Corbyn?

    Not sure how many "independents" are in it - I make it Claudia Webbe, Andy McDonald, Jeremy Corbyn so far.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,671
    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sunak has apparently looked at the north-west of England and decided that London/Home Counties should replicate it. The levelling down agenda.

    - Cancel public transport infrastructure
    - Plaster with motorways
    - Cover remaining patches with Barratt Homes, artificial grass and XL Bullies

    XLBs so long as they have muzzles and no bollocks.

    Rather more worryingly, whatever is bred to replace them won't be covered by the 'breed' specific legislation.
    Whac-a-mole. The DDA was useful in this emergency situation, but a long term solution needed.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,091
    boulay said:

    viewcode said:

    Madeley. Although, as any fule kno, Richard Madeley based his act on Partridge.
    Thanks Viewcode - before I had my op I gave Viewcode a heads up, as the official keeper of the list of PB Fallen, that he could pronounce my demise if I hadn’t posted after a couple of weeks. I was extremely concerned that my future non posting was noted as due to mere death rather than the horror of being thought to have flounced.

    So remember PB’ers, if you are about to have a quack sticking things in vital bits of your body, and I don’t mean Leon and his products, give Viewcode advance warning rather than risk being thought a flouncer.
    That's ok, it's not a problem. I was quite pleased you posted after your op, as I had pictures in my head of me repeatedly posting "please respond" messages like the "Columbia" disaster. Glad to know you are still alive and posting.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    ohnotnow said:

    If Suella Braverman is Home Secretary on general election day then I will be voting Labour.



    https://twitter.com/prospect_clark/status/1720540465831768527

    Next up: make it an offence to give food to food banks?
    If she's making a leadership bit then giving to food 'pantries' might make more sense.
    ??
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,841
    MattW said:

    isam said:

    MattW said:

    On the header, I wonder if a steady trickle of these types of Councillor defenestrating themselves is a plus for Mr Starmer?

    I’d say so - the slightly right of centre types who Sir Keir is trying to attract aren’t going to be put off voting Labour by a load of Islamic councillors quitting over Palestine
    One of his remaining issues is that there are still 35 MPs listed as being in the Socialist Campaign Group.

    Though it now allows in all MPs, not just Labour MPs - perhaps to protect Mr Corbyn?

    Not sure how many "independents" are in it - I make it Claudia Webbe, Andy McDonald, Jeremy Corbyn so far.
    If Labour gets 350-400 MPs the reality is we know precious little about many of these people.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931

    If Suella Braverman is Home Secretary on general election day then I will be voting Labour.



    https://twitter.com/prospect_clark/status/1720540465831768527

    Next up: make it an offence to give food to food banks?
    Negative gift aid. All donations to charity taxed at your marginal rate.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    Eabhal said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sunak has apparently looked at the north-west of England and decided that London/Home Counties should replicate it. The levelling down agenda.

    - Cancel public transport infrastructure
    - Plaster with motorways
    - Cover remaining patches with Barratt Homes, artificial grass and XL Bullies

    XLBs so long as they have muzzles and no bollocks.

    Rather more worryingly, whatever is bred to replace them won't be covered by the 'breed' specific legislation.
    Whac-a-mole. The DDA was useful in this emergency situation, but a long term solution needed.
    Quite so. Unclear so far if there is even enough time to 'process' all the mutts, even when the owners are being cooperative (and if I were a vet with a needle I would not go anywhere near an XLB if the owner was distressed) - there is such a thing as the holiday season.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/oct/31/american-xl-bully-dogs-to-be-banned-in-england-and-wales
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,270
    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sunak has apparently looked at the north-west of England and decided that London/Home Counties should replicate it. The levelling down agenda.

    - Cancel public transport infrastructure
    - Plaster with motorways
    - Cover remaining patches with Barratt Homes, artificial grass and XL Bullies

    XLBs so long as they have muzzles and no bollocks.

    Rather more worryingly, whatever is bred to replace them won't be covered by the 'breed' specific legislation.
    Possession of landshark over x kilos - muzzled etc unless proof that they only have no genetic heritage from problem breeds.

    What’s wrong with this as plan?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,876

    MattW said:

    isam said:

    MattW said:

    On the header, I wonder if a steady trickle of these types of Councillor defenestrating themselves is a plus for Mr Starmer?

    I’d say so - the slightly right of centre types who Sir Keir is trying to attract aren’t going to be put off voting Labour by a load of Islamic councillors quitting over Palestine
    One of his remaining issues is that there are still 35 MPs listed as being in the Socialist Campaign Group.

    Though it now allows in all MPs, not just Labour MPs - perhaps to protect Mr Corbyn?

    Not sure how many "independents" are in it - I make it Claudia Webbe, Andy McDonald, Jeremy Corbyn so far.
    If Labour gets 350-400 MPs the reality is we know precious little about many of these people.
    I seem to recall all this nonsense being trotted out before 1997. If Blair won, so it went, he would be a prisoner of the radical Left who would win enough seats to prevent "New" Labour governing effectively.

    419 MPs later...the reason why New Labour didn't govern effectively was nothing to do with "the Left".
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    edited November 2023

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sunak has apparently looked at the north-west of England and decided that London/Home Counties should replicate it. The levelling down agenda.

    - Cancel public transport infrastructure
    - Plaster with motorways
    - Cover remaining patches with Barratt Homes, artificial grass and XL Bullies

    XLBs so long as they have muzzles and no bollocks.

    Rather more worryingly, whatever is bred to replace them won't be covered by the 'breed' specific legislation.
    Possession of landshark over x kilos - muzzled etc unless proof that they only have no genetic heritage from problem breeds.

    What’s wrong with this as plan?
    Defining genetic heritage from problem breeds, in itself, in a simple way your average cop or local authority dog warden or CPS can understand. (Quite apart from the fact that XLB Isn't a formal breed in itself.)

    The 'over x kilos' is a simple phenotypical measure, much easier to define.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,173
    edited November 2023

    MattW said:

    isam said:

    MattW said:

    On the header, I wonder if a steady trickle of these types of Councillor defenestrating themselves is a plus for Mr Starmer?

    I’d say so - the slightly right of centre types who Sir Keir is trying to attract aren’t going to be put off voting Labour by a load of Islamic councillors quitting over Palestine
    One of his remaining issues is that there are still 35 MPs listed as being in the Socialist Campaign Group.

    Though it now allows in all MPs, not just Labour MPs - perhaps to protect Mr Corbyn?

    Not sure how many "independents" are in it - I make it Claudia Webbe, Andy McDonald, Jeremy Corbyn so far.
    If Labour gets 350-400 MPs the reality is we know precious little about many of these people.
    I think the locals know, and the Labour Party knows.

    I know who the extremists are on or around my local Council, and 35 or more far lefters in Parliament would imo be a problem for a sane Labour Government.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,792

    ohnotnow said:

    If Suella Braverman is Home Secretary on general election day then I will be voting Labour.



    https://twitter.com/prospect_clark/status/1720540465831768527

    Next up: make it an offence to give food to food banks?
    If she's making a leadership bit then giving to food 'pantries' might make more sense.
    ??
    Penny Mordaunt refers to her local foodbanks as 'food pantries' as they are different, in some way.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,091
    Of course, there ain't no track omission like a S Club track omission

    (1999. I checked)
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,058

    If Suella Braverman is Home Secretary on general election day then I will be voting Labour.



    https://twitter.com/prospect_clark/status/1720540465831768527

    Because homeless people are only homeless cos they are lazy scroungers. Take away their tents and they'll be in a 9 to 5 job and living in a house in no time, somehow.
  • James "Sit Down" was a nice one - often played last thing at a club to chill out a little.

    Although it sorta doesn't qualify - it was apparently first released in June 1989, and was not a hit. It was then re-released in a shorter form in 1991 and got to No. 2. (According to Wiki...)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sit_Down_(song)

    I thought it was a tribute to Zinedine Zidane.

    Whoa Zidane
    Whoa Zidane
    Zidane next to me
    Zidane, Zidane, Zidane, Zidane
    Zidane next to me
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,173
    edited November 2023
    stodge said:

    MattW said:

    isam said:

    MattW said:

    On the header, I wonder if a steady trickle of these types of Councillor defenestrating themselves is a plus for Mr Starmer?

    I’d say so - the slightly right of centre types who Sir Keir is trying to attract aren’t going to be put off voting Labour by a load of Islamic councillors quitting over Palestine
    One of his remaining issues is that there are still 35 MPs listed as being in the Socialist Campaign Group.

    Though it now allows in all MPs, not just Labour MPs - perhaps to protect Mr Corbyn?

    Not sure how many "independents" are in it - I make it Claudia Webbe, Andy McDonald, Jeremy Corbyn so far.
    If Labour gets 350-400 MPs the reality is we know precious little about many of these people.
    I seem to recall all this nonsense being trotted out before 1997. If Blair won, so it went, he would be a prisoner of the radical Left who would win enough seats to prevent "New" Labour governing effectively.

    419 MPs later...the reason why New Labour didn't govern effectively was nothing to do with "the Left".
    I'd make two points:

    1 - It is not clear that Mr Starmer will get anything like that many MPs.

    2 - The more recent example of an extreme faction is the last 8-9 years of Conservative Governments, and that did not exactly prove their lack-of-influence.
  • Some Britpop era Divine Comedy. Probably "Something for the Weekend", because "Generation Sex" is more obscure.
  • ohnotnow said:

    If Suella Braverman is Home Secretary on general election day then I will be voting Labour.



    https://twitter.com/prospect_clark/status/1720540465831768527

    Next up: make it an offence to give food to food banks?
    If she's making a leadership bit then giving to food 'pantries' might make more sense.
    Indian Railways still refer to "Pantry Cars".
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486

    James "Sit Down" was a nice one - often played last thing at a club to chill out a little.

    Although it sorta doesn't qualify - it was apparently first released in June 1989, and was not a hit. It was then re-released in a shorter form in 1991 and got to No. 2. (According to Wiki...)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sit_Down_(song)

    I thought it was a tribute to Zinedine Zidane.

    Whoa Zidane
    Whoa Zidane
    Zidane next to me
    Zidane, Zidane, Zidane, Zidane
    Zidane next to me
    You are thinking of “Murder on Zidane’s floor” by Sophie Ellis Bextor.
This discussion has been closed.