Sayeeda Warsi's comments on the lifting of the bonus cap are exceedingly stupid, but worse, incredibly disappointing to hear from an avowed Conservative. Every Conservative who fits within the broadest party definition should surely be itching to use their platform to explain how an unwarranted interference in remuneration policies of private companies is damaging inward investment and driving up the salaries of bankers. I don't think she's stupid, so it must be that she has a genuine antipathy toward Conservative Government and policies.
The 2019 Conservative landslide winning voting coalition brought together by Boris Johnson and Brexit contains many who are not wedded to the freedom of banks to pay eyewatering bonuses. Which just goes to show - nobody, however wrong they habitually are, are wrong all the time. And I'd extend that to you btw. It's usually large balls and small pockets but every so often you do manage to pot one.
Speaking of balls, thanks for your contribution to the debate. The bonus cap doesn’t prevent banks paying eyewatering sums to bankers, it prevents such sums being tied to performance. This making bankers get more for doing less. A better example of tokenistic self-defeating garbage could hardly be found.
The Greek theatre of Siracusa. Rather brilliantly, Aeschylus premiered some of his own plays here
I picture him nervously standing at the back, sipping a goblet of Etna wine, waiting for the first laughter
It is also 30C. On October 27. What is it like in August?!
Laughter? He was a tragedist, surely?
I have no idea. I find Greek drama unutterably boring
His (deeply unamusing) Oresteian trilogy is an exception. Persai is wonderfully dull, considering the immediate and contemporary context in which it is written - it ought to be one of the great set pieces of history and drama but isn't. He was present at Marathon and Salamis. It doesn't show.
My absurdly bright older daughter loves Greek drama. I have tried a couple of times but SNORE
My Greek colleagues assure me that there are lots of fart jokes in some of the plays, particularly those set on triremes due to proximity of faces and arses.
If you were on the bottom row of oarsmen, you might well have been shat upon, by men on the upper row. Bowels loosen during battle.
Sayeeda Warsi's comments on the lifting of the bonus cap are exceedingly stupid, but worse, incredibly disappointing to hear from an avowed Conservative. Every Conservative who fits within the broadest party definition should surely be itching to use their platform to explain how an unwarranted interference in remuneration policies of private companies is damaging inward investment and driving up the salaries of bankers. I don't think she's stupid, so it must be that she has a genuine antipathy toward Conservative Government and policies.
Alternatively, she is in favour of traditional Conservative policies, but not the current lot of incompetent, crooked grifters.
Her opinion of Sunak's Government may be low (as is mine) but that's no excuse for dishonest playing to the peanut gallery like this, which sets back the cause of good Conservative policies and dumbs down politics even more.
The Greek theatre of Siracusa. Rather brilliantly, Aeschylus premiered some of his own plays here
I picture him nervously standing at the back, sipping a goblet of Etna wine, waiting for the first laughter
It is also 30C. On October 27. What is it like in August?!
Laughter? He was a tragedist, surely?
I have no idea. I find Greek drama unutterably boring
His (deeply unamusing) Oresteian trilogy is an exception. Persai is wonderfully dull, considering the immediate and contemporary context in which it is written - it ought to be one of the great set pieces of history and drama but isn't. He was present at Marathon and Salamis. It doesn't show.
My absurdly bright older daughter loves Greek drama. I have tried a couple of times but SNORE
My Greek colleagues assure me that there are lots of fart jokes in some of the plays, particularly those set on triremes due to proximity of faces and arses.
THere's a father and son called (translated) Love-Cleon and FartyCleon in one Aristophanes play - it in part being about the political generation gap - the oldie deceived by the demagogue Cleon and the son trying to clean up the mess and stop it getting even worse. Fill in your own modern equivalent name!
The Greek theatre of Siracusa. Rather brilliantly, Aeschylus premiered some of his own plays here
I picture him nervously standing at the back, sipping a goblet of Etna wine, waiting for the first laughter
It is also 30C. On October 27. What is it like in August?!
Laughter? He was a tragedist, surely?
I have no idea. I find Greek drama unutterably boring
His (deeply unamusing) Oresteian trilogy is an exception. Persai is wonderfully dull, considering the immediate and contemporary context in which it is written - it ought to be one of the great set pieces of history and drama but isn't. He was present at Marathon and Salamis. It doesn't show.
My absurdly bright older daughter loves Greek drama. I have tried a couple of times but SNORE
Introduce yourself to Stravinsky's 'Oedipus Rex' as a lively way in to the cheery charms of Sophocles, which can be followed up by hefty doses of Freud and Ernest Jones. The great Greek stories cut very deep.
I can see the importance of Greek drama. It’s foundational status. I get the grand mythic quality
Oedipus. Electra, Clytemnestra
It’s just that as drama they leave me COMPLETELY cold (as does a fair amount of Shakespeare, esp the comedies)
On the other hand I love Homer. The violence is so brutal
The Greek theatre of Siracusa. Rather brilliantly, Aeschylus premiered some of his own plays here
I picture him nervously standing at the back, sipping a goblet of Etna wine, waiting for the first laughter
It is also 30C. On October 27. What is it like in August?!
Laughter? He was a tragedist, surely?
I have no idea. I find Greek drama unutterably boring
His (deeply unamusing) Oresteian trilogy is an exception. Persai is wonderfully dull, considering the immediate and contemporary context in which it is written - it ought to be one of the great set pieces of history and drama but isn't. He was present at Marathon and Salamis. It doesn't show.
My absurdly bright older daughter loves Greek drama. I have tried a couple of times but SNORE
My Greek colleagues assure me that there are lots of fart jokes in some of the plays, particularly those set on triremes due to proximity of faces and arses.
If you were on the bottom row of oarsmen, you might well have been shat upon, by men on the upper row. Bowels loosen during battle.
The folk in the modern replica, Hellenic Navy Trireme Olympias, found that even just sweat alone was quite nasty - the folk at the bottom getting showered in it.
This in no way surprises me. Unlike a few (very few) other countries, most of Europe has made no attempt to integrate migrants into our culture or society. We have done nothing to try and instill the values we are suppose to adhere to (perhaps because so many in our own society ignore those same values?). We have also allowed migrants to create their own enclaves and ghettos and have then moaned when they can't speak our language or understand our value systems.
To be clear this is not, on the whole, the fault of the migrants. We have said to them that they can come to Europe and bring their own belief and value systems with them. We have preached that it is racist or immoral to try and impose our own values and culture on them as a price for their becoming part of our society. This form of multiculturalism is destructive both for the host country and the migrants themselves.
Other countries have gone a different route and have been far more successful at integration. Enforced cultural and language lessons for those wishing to settle in our country, along with a hard line on religious practices which run counter to our laws is not racist, it is necessary for both parties to be able to live in peace and for us to be able to welcome more migrants.
Sayeeda Warsi's comments on the lifting of the bonus cap are exceedingly stupid, but worse, incredibly disappointing to hear from an avowed Conservative. Every Conservative who fits within the broadest party definition should surely be itching to use their platform to explain how an unwarranted interference in remuneration policies of private companies is damaging inward investment and driving up the salaries of bankers. I don't think she's stupid, so it must be that she has a genuine antipathy toward Conservative Government and policies.
The 2019 Conservative landslide winning voting coalition brought together by Boris Johnson and Brexit contains many who are not wedded to the freedom of banks to pay eyewatering bonuses. Which just goes to show - nobody, however wrong they habitually are, are wrong all the time. And I'd extend that to you btw. It's usually large balls and small pockets but every so often you do manage to pot one.
Speaking of balls, thanks for your contribution to the debate. The bonus cap doesn’t prevent banks paying eyewatering sums to bankers, it prevents such sums being tied to performance. This making bankers get more for doing less. A better example of tokenistic self-defeating garbage could hardly be found.
Wasn’t it a Tory gimmick to begin with, to try and con us that we really are all in it together?
With this talk of "punching up" etc, I'd note that another phrase that annoys me is "don't kick a man when he's down".
In my experience, that's the very best time to kick a man - he's simply so much less likely to be able to fight back. It worries me that people learn the wrong lessons from these expressions - some of them are downright misleading.
'Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger" "Everything happens for a reason" "You can do anything if you put your mind to it"
3 off the top of my head. Tip: If anyone wants to really bug me, use one of these.
It is what it is gaining depressing popularity.
Yes, not keen on that one. It has a 'can't be arsed to engage heart or mind' feel to it.
On a more positive note, to prove I'm not going the surly old man route, I do quite like the growing tendency of young people in the customer services game to dispense with 'ok' in favour of 'amazing'.
"What time do you close?" "5 o'clock" "How about 3.30 then?" "Amazing."
I’ve noticed the same. I am certain it comes from Australian English - I first noted “amazing” there about 20 years ago. Again in hospitality. See also “beautiful”
“So you want coffee rather than tea?” “Yes.” “Beautiful. What about toast?”
Also, "perfect". Which is weird.
"Can I check in please?" "Could I have your name?" "Sandy Rentool" "Perfect!"
Well it isn't perfect, it is a silly name I made up!
Lots of Muslim votes in French cities he is chasing who won't vote for Macron's party or Le Pen
Melanchon is the kind of candidate who's meant to drive up turnout of left wing voters, but finish behind the Socialist. The problem is, the Socialists have now been eclipsed. And, given a choice between Marcron or Le Pen, a fair sized minority of his voters preferred Le Pen.
"Europe has made itself vulnerable by outsourcing its security The continent is paying countries on its fringes, democratic and otherwise, to shield its core from all the chaos.
This in no way surprises me. Unlike a few (very few) other countries, most of Europe has made no attempt to integrate migrants into our culture or society. We have done nothing to try and instill the values we are suppose to adhere to (perhaps because so many in our own society ignore those same values?). We have also allowed migrants to create their own enclaves and ghettos and have then moaned when they can't speak our language or understand our value systems.
To be clear this is not, on the whole, the fault of the migrants. We have said to them that they can come to Europe and bring their own belief and value systems with them. We have preached that it is racist or immoral to try and impose our own values and culture on them as a price for their becoming part of our society. This form of multiculturalism is destructive both for the host country and the migrants themselves.
Other countries have gone a different route and have been far more successful at integration. Enforced cultural and language lessons for those wishing to settle in our country, along with a hard line on religious practices which run counter to our laws is not racist, it is necessary for both parties to be able to live in peace and for us to be able to welcome more migrants.
I would say, having lived among immigrants most of my life, that we have done more, recently, than other countries to encourage integration. Remember the howling over the idea of lessons on values, Yasmin Alibhai-Brown protesting at the horrible idea that there was something in this country to like, the disgust with the idea that everyone should learn English?
One problem with the encouragement of separation (which ended perhaps 10-15 years ago) was that it felt very exclusionary to the immigrants. Some of whom saw it as saying "You are X, you can't be British"
With this talk of "punching up" etc, I'd note that another phrase that annoys me is "don't kick a man when he's down".
In my experience, that's the very best time to kick a man - he's simply so much less likely to be able to fight back. It worries me that people learn the wrong lessons from these expressions - some of them are downright misleading.
'Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger" "Everything happens for a reason" "You can do anything if you put your mind to it"
3 off the top of my head. Tip: If anyone wants to really bug me, use one of these.
It is what it is gaining depressing popularity.
Yes, not keen on that one. It has a 'can't be arsed to engage heart or mind' feel to it.
On a more positive note, to prove I'm not going the surly old man route, I do quite like the growing tendency of young people in the customer services game to dispense with 'ok' in favour of 'amazing'.
"What time do you close?" "5 o'clock" "How about 3.30 then?" "Amazing."
I’ve noticed the same. I am certain it comes from Australian English - I first noted “amazing” there about 20 years ago. Again in hospitality. See also “beautiful”
“So you want coffee rather than tea?” “Yes.” “Beautiful. What about toast?”
Also, "perfect". Which is weird.
"Can I check in please?" "Could I have your name?" "Sandy Rentool" "Perfect!"
Well it isn't perfect, it is a silly name I made up!
The Greek theatre of Siracusa. Rather brilliantly, Aeschylus premiered some of his own plays here
I picture him nervously standing at the back, sipping a goblet of Etna wine, waiting for the first laughter
It is also 30C. On October 27. What is it like in August?!
Laughter? He was a tragedist, surely?
I have no idea. I find Greek drama unutterably boring
His (deeply unamusing) Oresteian trilogy is an exception. Persai is wonderfully dull, considering the immediate and contemporary context in which it is written - it ought to be one of the great set pieces of history and drama but isn't. He was present at Marathon and Salamis. It doesn't show.
My absurdly bright older daughter loves Greek drama. I have tried a couple of times but SNORE
Introduce yourself to Stravinsky's 'Oedipus Rex' as a lively way in to the cheery charms of Sophocles, which can be followed up by hefty doses of Freud and Ernest Jones. The great Greek stories cut very deep.
I can see the importance of Greek drama. It’s foundational status. I get the grand mythic quality
Oedipus. Electra, Clytemnestra
It’s just that as drama they leave me COMPLETELY cold (as does a fair amount of Shakespeare, esp the comedies)
On the other hand I love Homer. The violence is so brutal
Shakespeare is treated like some religious people treat sacred texts. In reality there is a little something in almost all the plays, but the top 10 or so are in a different league, playing a different game, from the others.
The problem of ancient comedy (ie funny stuff); All older texts are hard work. Comedy and hard work don't mix. Once you have to footnote and annotate and explain, comedy is lost and people can only pretend to like it. One day Three Men in a Boat won't be funny.
Comedy in the sense of the triumph of love and the sovereignty of the good however does endure being old. Dante, Jane Austen, the Marriage of Figaro (and Mozart passim), Julian of Norwich are getting along fine.
Homer: Yes, especially the Iliad. Its modern counterpart is Wuthering Heights and King Lear, and the Middle East on the telly.
With this talk of "punching up" etc, I'd note that another phrase that annoys me is "don't kick a man when he's down".
In my experience, that's the very best time to kick a man - he's simply so much less likely to be able to fight back. It worries me that people learn the wrong lessons from these expressions - some of them are downright misleading.
'Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger" "Everything happens for a reason" "You can do anything if you put your mind to it"
3 off the top of my head. Tip: If anyone wants to really bug me, use one of these.
It is what it is gaining depressing popularity.
Yes, not keen on that one. It has a 'can't be arsed to engage heart or mind' feel to it.
On a more positive note, to prove I'm not going the surly old man route, I do quite like the growing tendency of young people in the customer services game to dispense with 'ok' in favour of 'amazing'.
"What time do you close?" "5 o'clock" "How about 3.30 then?" "Amazing."
I’ve noticed the same. I am certain it comes from Australian English - I first noted “amazing” there about 20 years ago. Again in hospitality. See also “beautiful”
“So you want coffee rather than tea?” “Yes.” “Beautiful. What about toast?”
Also, "perfect". Which is weird.
"Can I check in please?" "Could I have your name?" "Sandy Rentool" "Perfect!"
Well it isn't perfect, it is a silly name I made up!
Sayeeda Warsi's comments on the lifting of the bonus cap are exceedingly stupid, but worse, incredibly disappointing to hear from an avowed Conservative. Every Conservative who fits within the broadest party definition should surely be itching to use their platform to explain how an unwarranted interference in remuneration policies of private companies is damaging inward investment and driving up the salaries of bankers. I don't think she's stupid, so it must be that she has a genuine antipathy toward Conservative Government and policies.
The 2019 Conservative landslide winning voting coalition brought together by Boris Johnson and Brexit contains many who are not wedded to the freedom of banks to pay eyewatering bonuses. Which just goes to show - nobody, however wrong they habitually are, are wrong all the time. And I'd extend that to you btw. It's usually large balls and small pockets but every so often you do manage to pot one.
Speaking of balls, thanks for your contribution to the debate. The bonus cap doesn’t prevent banks paying eyewatering sums to bankers, it prevents such sums being tied to performance. This making bankers get more for doing less. A better example of tokenistic self-defeating garbage could hardly be found.
Wasn’t it a Tory gimmick to begin with, to try and con us that we really are all in it together?
This in no way surprises me. Unlike a few (very few) other countries, most of Europe has made no attempt to integrate migrants into our culture or society. We have done nothing to try and instill the values we are suppose to adhere to (perhaps because so many in our own society ignore those same values?). We have also allowed migrants to create their own enclaves and ghettos and have then moaned when they can't speak our language or understand our value systems.
To be clear this is not, on the whole, the fault of the migrants. We have said to them that they can come to Europe and bring their own belief and value systems with them. We have preached that it is racist or immoral to try and impose our own values and culture on them as a price for their becoming part of our society. This form of multiculturalism is destructive both for the host country and the migrants themselves.
Other countries have gone a different route and have been far more successful at integration. Enforced cultural and language lessons for those wishing to settle in our country, along with a hard line on religious practices which run counter to our laws is not racist, it is necessary for both parties to be able to live in peace and for us to be able to welcome more migrants.
I would say, having lived among immigrants most of my life, that we have done more, recently, than other countries to encourage integration. Remember the howling over the idea of lessons on values, Yasmin Alibhai-Brown protesting at the horrible idea that there was something in this country to like, the disgust with the idea that everyone should learn English?
One problem with the encouragement of separation (which ended perhaps 10-15 years ago) was that it felt very exclusionary to the immigrants. Some of whom saw it as saying "You are X, you can't be British"
I see us doing nothing compared to a country like Norway.
300 hours of compulsory language and culture lessons Migrants cannot choose where to live for the first few years. They must live in the county assigned to them. The ritual killing of unstunned animals is banned.
And look at the results.
A 2017 survey of 4000 muslims in Norway found that only 2% believe that violence is justified under Islam. Cpmpare that with the 40% in other Western countries cited by Max earlier in the thread.
Bear in mind that 18% of Norway's population are either immgrants or first generation children of immigrants.
I do agree with you about the exclusionary language and attitudes. Neither colour, place of birth nor religion should be a bar to being British. Refusing to integrate however should.
Comments
Alexander Hurst"
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/27/jean-luc-melenchon-french-left-israel-france
Oedipus. Electra, Clytemnestra
It’s just that as drama they leave me COMPLETELY cold (as does a fair amount of Shakespeare, esp the comedies)
On the other hand I love Homer. The violence is so brutal
To be clear this is not, on the whole, the fault of the migrants. We have said to them that they can come to Europe and bring their own belief and value systems with them. We have preached that it is racist or immoral to try and impose our own values and culture on them as a price for their becoming part of our society. This form of multiculturalism is destructive both for the host country and the migrants themselves.
Other countries have gone a different route and have been far more successful at integration. Enforced cultural and language lessons for those wishing to settle in our country, along with a hard line on religious practices which run counter to our laws is not racist, it is necessary for both parties to be able to live in peace and for us to be able to welcome more migrants.
"Could I have your name?"
"Sandy Rentool"
"Perfect!"
Well it isn't perfect, it is a silly name I made up!
The continent is paying countries on its fringes, democratic and otherwise, to shield its core from all the chaos.
By Jeremy Cliffe"
https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2023/10/europe-outsourcing-security-bulwark-states
Some good articles in the Guardian and New Statesman today.
"We are here. Where's everyone else?"
(I was in the right pub.)
One problem with the encouragement of separation (which ended perhaps 10-15 years ago) was that it felt very exclusionary to the immigrants. Some of whom saw it as saying "You are X, you can't be British"
The problem of ancient comedy (ie funny stuff); All older texts are hard work. Comedy and hard work don't mix. Once you have to footnote and annotate and explain, comedy is lost and people can only pretend to like it. One day Three Men in a Boat won't be funny.
Comedy in the sense of the triumph of love and the sovereignty of the good however does endure being old. Dante, Jane Austen, the Marriage of Figaro (and Mozart passim), Julian of Norwich are getting along fine.
Homer: Yes, especially the Iliad. Its modern counterpart is Wuthering Heights and King Lear, and the Middle East on the telly.
300 hours of compulsory language and culture lessons
Migrants cannot choose where to live for the first few years. They must live in the county assigned to them.
The ritual killing of unstunned animals is banned.
And look at the results.
A 2017 survey of 4000 muslims in Norway found that only 2% believe that violence is justified under Islam. Cpmpare that with the 40% in other Western countries cited by Max earlier in the thread.
Bear in mind that 18% of Norway's population are either immgrants or first generation children of immigrants.
I do agree with you about the exclusionary language and attitudes. Neither colour, place of birth nor religion should be a bar to being British. Refusing to integrate however should.
NEW THREAD
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-67236049