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Now a move to exclude party members from leadership elections – politicalbetting.com

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  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,145
    edited October 2023
    HYUFD said:

    Armed police confront 13 year old boy with water pistol

    "Boy with water pistol confronted by armed police - BBC News" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-67148208

    We need a photo of the device.

    We also need to recall that the police were there due to a report of a suspected firearm.

    Here was one which caused a previous "scandal" (below), linked from the BBC story, where a 12 year old was arrested for a 'weapon' that turned out to be a pellet gun.

    We need to remember that in the most year reported (21-22 iirc), there were FOUR incidents where police intentionally discharged firearms in the entire country.

    This part of the system seems to work to me.




  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275

    nico679 said:

    MattW said:

    For the PB Consumer Advice Department.

    I see that NetFlix are putting up prices again.

    Is there a killer reason I have not noticed for keeping the subscription open?

    ( I note that I haven't used it for quite some time.)

    Compared to Amazon there don't seem to be many bundled benefits.

    Sex Education & Lucifer.

    Stranger Things.

    FYI - I'm getting the top Netflix package for £7 a month via Sky.
    Is there a new series of Lucifer?
    Sadly not, but every few days I'll go and watch an old episode.
    Have you tried Designated Survivor? It’s getting a little silly in series 3 but series 1 is good


    I watched the first two series then gave up.
    A lot of these series have no overall plan. Which is why they disappear up their fundaments - typically the Big New Reveal is that the Big Bad the Our Heroes have just taken down is actually not THE Big Bad.

    A counter example is Person of Interest, where they steadily built up to the endgame over 5 seasons.
    Breaking Bad was the best at that.

    Although it was the Ozymandias episode which was the third to last episode of the show when you realised who the real bad guy was.
    I thought the whole point of he series was to slowly boil the frog - see how far you could take the viewers before they realised they were backing the Big Bad.
    A quite brilliant series . The brilliance is to keep people watching even though it’s not good against evil . Walter became increasingly dislikeable . Better Call Saul was also very good , with a bit of humour at times .
    The point was that Walt was evil from the start - dissolving bodies, chaining people up in basements? - but that he is gradually letting his inner nature take control.

    It’s the slow motion version of the guy who goes postal.
    Yes spot on but you wanted to like him . I couldn’t stop watching the series and had to force myself to go to bed at ridiculous times . There’s a lot of tripe out there so when you get a brilliant series you really appreciate it .
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,348
    Stocky said:

    MattW said:

    For the PB Consumer Advice Department.

    I see that NetFlix are putting up prices again.

    Is there a killer reason I have not noticed for keeping the subscription open?

    ( I note that I haven't used it for quite some time.)

    Compared to Amazon there don't seem to be many bundled benefits.

    Sex Education & Lucifer.

    Stranger Things.

    FYI - I'm getting the top Netflix package for £7 a month via Sky.
    Is there a new series of Lucifer?
    Sadly not, but every few days I'll go and watch an old episode.
    Have you tried Designated Survivor? It’s getting a little silly in series 3 but series 1 is good


    I watched the first two series then gave up.
    A lot of these series have no overall plan. Which is why they disappear up their fundaments - typically the Big New Reveal is that the Big Bad the Our Heroes have just taken down is actually not THE Big Bad.

    A counter example is Person of Interest, where they steadily built up to the endgame over 5 seasons.
    Breaking Bad was the best at that.

    Although it was the Ozymandias episode which was the third to last episode of the show when you realised who the real bad guy was.
    I thought the whole point of he series was to slowly boil the frog - see how far you could take the viewers before they realised they were backing the Big Bad.
    Yes indeed. How far does your moral philosophy stretch?

    I was with Walt for much longer than most viewers. I've watched it four times now and if you watch it again see if you agree with me that Jesse was a baddie much earlier on than Walt, yet viewers generally give Jesse a pass entirely.
    Walter was always rotten. His story is power reveals, rather than power corrupts.

    Eliot and Gretchen gave him the chance to provide for his family, at the start, and he turned it down in favour of crime.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,073
    Nigelb said:

    The latest in the Britishvolt saga.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67149907

    It's frankly pathetic that the government has allowed what is a significant national energy infrastructure site to fall into the hands of successive chancers with no serious plans.

    Nationalise it. In a world full of complex problems, it is nice to have one that is solved quickly.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    My thanks to DA for mentioning Hunter Biden's naval career.

    For those who don't know the details:

    Biden's application for a position in the U.S. Navy Reserve was approved in May 2013.[138] At age 43, Biden was accepted as part of a program that allows a limited number of applicants with desirable skills to receive commissions and serve in staff positions.[139] Biden received an age-related waiver and a waiver for a past drug-related incident; he was sworn in as a direct commission officer by his father in a White House ceremony.[138][18]

    The urinalysis of a urine sample taken on his first weekend of reserve duty a few weeks later detected cocaine in his system.[18][139] He was discharged administratively in February 2014.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_Biden#Navy_Reserve

    Its clear that Hunter Biden has received special treatment in the past - whether it extended into other areas involving money grubbing and criminality I don't know.

    But the imagery of a serial felon receiving special treatment because of a family connection isn't good.

    It's pretty stinky, although at least the USN did the right thing and hoofed him at the first possible opportunity. That piss test probably wasn't completely random...

    HB also wouldn't take his medicine and tried to brazen it out by saying he cadged a fag off somebody that must have been laced with cocaine.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,348

    Up at 445 to head for mid-Beds. Long day ahead!

    3rd place is nothing to be ashamed of.

    The Israel has every tight to do that Party could of course also do better.

    Never had Nick down as a genocide supporter.

    You live and learn
    You really are a wazzock. You cannot brand Labour voters and members as being a "genocide supporter". I would say that its outrageous, but its worse - its pathetic.
    A touch of Plato syndrome about this. A once reasonable poster, who’s now just deranged.
    The problem as usual is absolutism. Support for Israel must mean condemnation of Palestine and vice versa. Not true - we need to secure peace and security for both. My problem is that the hard left endlessly repeat "from the river to the sea" - a polite way to describe the same Jew genocide planned by Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah and Iran.

    Park the bullshit around this hospital non-bombing for a moment. The hard left are in support of Hamas and IJ firing rockets aimed at murdering civilians. This rocket murdered some of their own civilians but thats OK as Hamas wants to kill as many Palestinians as possible as well

    And note how the world has treated the two alleged outrages. One is Hamas slaughtering in the most medieval ways thousands of Israel civilians - including so many small children - the other Israel bombing this hospital and killing 500.

    Despite all the evidence that Hamas psychopaths did slaughter their way through the peace festival and various towns and settlements. And the proof of what it did to those women and children. We still get endless arguments and denials and nitpicking - you can't say that Hamas beheaded 20 children it was only 10 etc.

    On the other hand we have this bullshit about Israel bombing a hospital. The literal word of the terrorists taken as gospel. And despite the obvious flaw in the lie - the hospital being patently not bombed - it is anyone questioning the lie who are condemned. Despite the media having to eat humble pie later.

    Treating the Jews - not Israelis - differently to any other group - is anti-semitism. And we are seeing it on a global scale now. As the firebombings - successful and failed - of synagogues in Tunisia and Germany and elsewhere demonstrates.
    Total nonsense.

    40 babies beheaded is nil babies beheaded

    The official Israeli death toll in Israel includes a likely majority of IDF deaths and stands at 1600 last time I looked you say thousands of civilians slaughtered in a medieval way

    You make no mention at all of numbers of innocents killed in Gaza and the West Bank the latter of which is nothing to do with Hamas. The total is far greater than in Israel with more to come


    Then you conclude it is Israel who is the injured party. I condemn Hamas' killings of innocents and Israeli killing of innocents. I have not seen you condemn the latter.

    Typical of you of course. You really should rejoin the pro genocide SKS Party they are made for you
    It’s okay, the babies were only riddled with bullets.
  • My thanks to DA for mentioning Hunter Biden's naval career.

    For those who don't know the details:

    Biden's application for a position in the U.S. Navy Reserve was approved in May 2013.[138] At age 43, Biden was accepted as part of a program that allows a limited number of applicants with desirable skills to receive commissions and serve in staff positions.[139] Biden received an age-related waiver and a waiver for a past drug-related incident; he was sworn in as a direct commission officer by his father in a White House ceremony.[138][18]

    The urinalysis of a urine sample taken on his first weekend of reserve duty a few weeks later detected cocaine in his system.[18][139] He was discharged administratively in February 2014.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_Biden#Navy_Reserve

    Its clear that Hunter Biden has received special treatment in the past - whether it extended into other areas involving money grubbing and criminality I don't know.

    But the imagery of a serial felon receiving special treatment because of a family connection isn't good.

    It is utterly standard in American politics. So standard that the episode of West Wing about it barely raised an eyebrow - in the episode, they call in a whole bunch of aides to Senators and tell them that if they start blowvaiting about the President changing drug laws, that they (the West Wing staff) will put all the drug charges that the Senators have got their kids off… into the papers.

    I don't doubt it.

    But the problem is that it allows Trump to say that he's done nothing worse than the rest of them and that he's being unjustly singled out for legal persecution.
  • IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    I can't see it gaining traction.

    I think it is correct and reasonable, but we've seen the petulant reactions of party members when 'denied' the chance to vote on a leader, despite it being a recent innovation ("What's the point of being a member?" being the cry), and even though its attacked as undemocratic when party members vote anyway I don't think the party has the guts to openly call for the members to no longer be involved.

    Including party members does not reflect the people who need to back and support the leader on a daily basis,and just leads to arguments about mandate, it is unrepresentative, it is not really any kind of mass involvement, and is not how the system really works.

    Really? I'm surprised you've been convinced by such a facile argument - it bears zero scrutiny. The members get to choose between two candidates, decided by MPs. Every time they've alledgedly chosen 'wrong', they've done so for very good reason. Ken Clark was totally and uncompromisingly at odds with the majority of the party on Europe - MPs could have sent members the mild eurosceptic Michael Portillo; they chose to send IDS. Truss vs. Sunak - Truss was manoeuvred into second place by Sunak donating MPs to other campaigns, leaving other (potentially better) candidates benched. And can we really say that they chose wrong? They chose someone who believed in the UK and its future over a slimy technocrat who in the event has made an utter fucking horlicks of everything anyway. If anything, Tory MPs should be relieved of the responsibility of voting for the leader, or at least have to send the members three options so there's less chance of a stitch up.
    The members should have no part in it. The Prime Minister is supposed to be the person who can command the support of the House of Commons. The choice should be left to MPs from the governing party alone and ultimately to Parliament through a vote of confidence.

    And Truss made an utter fucking Horlicks of everything as well. Which is why we ended up with Sunak.

    Fuck the membership. Leave it to MPs or have the courage to call a General Election.
    Absurd. Why exactly should a political party give their time, money, shoe leather, and blood sweat and tears, so careerist MPs can rip up a conservative agenda and do what the heck they like? If any Tory MPs don't like it, fuck off and start a new party and see how they get on. You're really off the boil lately. Get well soon.
    Because we elect MPs to govern, not parties. Fuck the parties. They should have no power that doesn't derive directly from the MPs. That is Parliamentary democracy and to be honest if you don't like it then you are the one who should be fucking off.
    If only we had a voting system that maximised the leverage of the individual MP rather than that of the political parties.
    Which is why I am in favour of AV over FPTP.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,348

    MattW said:

    For the PB Consumer Advice Department.

    I see that NetFlix are putting up prices again.

    Is there a killer reason I have not noticed for keeping the subscription open?

    ( I note that I haven't used it for quite some time.)

    Compared to Amazon there don't seem to be many bundled benefits.

    Sex Education & Lucifer.

    Stranger Things.

    FYI - I'm getting the top Netflix package for £7 a month via Sky.
    Is there a new series of Lucifer?
    Sadly not, but every few days I'll go and watch an old episode.
    Have you tried Designated Survivor? It’s getting a little silly in series 3 but series 1 is good


    I watched the first two series then gave up.
    You were in good company. The writers gave up at the same point.
    Game of Thrones effectively ended after Season 4.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,213
    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    MattW said:

    For the PB Consumer Advice Department.

    I see that NetFlix are putting up prices again.

    Is there a killer reason I have not noticed for keeping the subscription open?

    ( I note that I haven't used it for quite some time.)

    Compared to Amazon there don't seem to be many bundled benefits.

    Sex Education & Lucifer.

    Stranger Things.

    FYI - I'm getting the top Netflix package for £7 a month via Sky.
    Is there a new series of Lucifer?
    Sadly not, but every few days I'll go and watch an old episode.
    Have you tried Designated Survivor? It’s getting a little silly in series 3 but series 1 is good


    I watched the first two series then gave up.
    A lot of these series have no overall plan. Which is why they disappear up their fundaments - typically the Big New Reveal is that the Big Bad the Our Heroes have just taken down is actually not THE Big Bad.

    A counter example is Person of Interest, where they steadily built up to the endgame over 5 seasons.
    Breaking Bad was the best at that.

    Although it was the Ozymandias episode which was the third to last episode of the show when you realised who the real bad guy was.
    I thought the whole point of he series was to slowly boil the frog - see how far you could take the viewers before they realised they were backing the Big Bad.
    A quite brilliant series . The brilliance is to keep people watching even though it’s not good against evil . Walter became increasingly dislikeable . Better Call Saul was also very good , with a bit of humour at times .
    The point was that Walt was evil from the start - dissolving bodies, chaining people up in basements? - but that he is gradually letting his inner nature take control.

    It’s the slow motion version of the guy who goes postal.
    Yes spot on but you wanted to like him . I couldn’t stop watching the series and had to force myself to go to bed at ridiculous times . There’s a lot of tripe out there so when you get a brilliant series you really appreciate it .
    Spoiler: I liked Walt until it because clear that his priority switched from being motivated to protect his family to being motivated primarily by the job satisfaction of making the 'perfect' product. We can all argue about when that point was.

    The programme makers cunning made Jesse superficially much more likeable (and fanciable) and he gets break after break by viewers where, for me, he was a scrote from the off. Then he shoots Gale is Series 3.

    I assume you have also seen El Camino?
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    Stocky said:

    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    MattW said:

    For the PB Consumer Advice Department.

    I see that NetFlix are putting up prices again.

    Is there a killer reason I have not noticed for keeping the subscription open?

    ( I note that I haven't used it for quite some time.)

    Compared to Amazon there don't seem to be many bundled benefits.

    Sex Education & Lucifer.

    Stranger Things.

    FYI - I'm getting the top Netflix package for £7 a month via Sky.
    Is there a new series of Lucifer?
    Sadly not, but every few days I'll go and watch an old episode.
    Have you tried Designated Survivor? It’s getting a little silly in series 3 but series 1 is good


    I watched the first two series then gave up.
    A lot of these series have no overall plan. Which is why they disappear up their fundaments - typically the Big New Reveal is that the Big Bad the Our Heroes have just taken down is actually not THE Big Bad.

    A counter example is Person of Interest, where they steadily built up to the endgame over 5 seasons.
    Breaking Bad was the best at that.

    Although it was the Ozymandias episode which was the third to last episode of the show when you realised who the real bad guy was.
    I thought the whole point of he series was to slowly boil the frog - see how far you could take the viewers before they realised they were backing the Big Bad.
    A quite brilliant series . The brilliance is to keep people watching even though it’s not good against evil . Walter became increasingly dislikeable . Better Call Saul was also very good , with a bit of humour at times .
    The point was that Walt was evil from the start - dissolving bodies, chaining people up in basements? - but that he is gradually letting his inner nature take control.

    It’s the slow motion version of the guy who goes postal.
    Yes spot on but you wanted to like him . I couldn’t stop watching the series and had to force myself to go to bed at ridiculous times . There’s a lot of tripe out there so when you get a brilliant series you really appreciate it .
    Spoiler: I liked Walt until it because clear that his priority switched from being motivated to protect his family to being motivated primarily by the job satisfaction of making the 'perfect' product. We can all argue about when that point was.

    The programme makers cunning made Jesse superficially much more likeable (and fanciable) and he gets break after break by viewers where, for me, he was a scrote from the off. Then he shoots Gale is Series 3.

    I assume you have also seen El Camino?
    I was in two minds about watching it . Haven’t yet . Would you recommend it .
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,908
  • Taz said:

    An open letter signed by well-known actors condemning Israeli military actions has been criticised for failing to mention brutal terror attacks carried out by Hamas.

    More than 2,000 artists, actors and musicians in the UK, including Tilda Swinton, Steve Coogan, Charles Dance and Maxine Peake, signed the letter.

    They called for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza and for “our governments to end their military and political support for Israel’s actions”.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/18/coogan-swinton-letter-condemns-israel-war-crimes-not-hamas/

    That would be the same Maxine Peake who contrived to show how Israel was responsible for the death of George Floyd?
    This sounds so insane I had to Google it.

    Bloody hell

    https://www.jewishnews.co.uk/maxine-peake-responds-to-row-over-claim-linking-george-floyd-death-to-israel/
    This is why I have a strict "don't ask" policy when it comes to artists and their personal views. Peake is a brilliant actor. She's a mentalist politically, but I don't care what her views are so I can keep watching her stuff.
    I feel the same way about Eddie Izzard - one of the finest and most original of comedians of our age even though I disagree entirely with just about evrything in his politics.

    The same goes for the Anti-vaxxer Clapton. I don't think his music is any less superb because he is a lunatic.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,213
    Sean_F said:

    Stocky said:

    MattW said:

    For the PB Consumer Advice Department.

    I see that NetFlix are putting up prices again.

    Is there a killer reason I have not noticed for keeping the subscription open?

    ( I note that I haven't used it for quite some time.)

    Compared to Amazon there don't seem to be many bundled benefits.

    Sex Education & Lucifer.

    Stranger Things.

    FYI - I'm getting the top Netflix package for £7 a month via Sky.
    Is there a new series of Lucifer?
    Sadly not, but every few days I'll go and watch an old episode.
    Have you tried Designated Survivor? It’s getting a little silly in series 3 but series 1 is good


    I watched the first two series then gave up.
    A lot of these series have no overall plan. Which is why they disappear up their fundaments - typically the Big New Reveal is that the Big Bad the Our Heroes have just taken down is actually not THE Big Bad.

    A counter example is Person of Interest, where they steadily built up to the endgame over 5 seasons.
    Breaking Bad was the best at that.

    Although it was the Ozymandias episode which was the third to last episode of the show when you realised who the real bad guy was.
    I thought the whole point of he series was to slowly boil the frog - see how far you could take the viewers before they realised they were backing the Big Bad.
    Yes indeed. How far does your moral philosophy stretch?

    I was with Walt for much longer than most viewers. I've watched it four times now and if you watch it again see if you agree with me that Jesse was a baddie much earlier on than Walt, yet viewers generally give Jesse a pass entirely.
    Walter was always rotten. His story is power reveals, rather than power corrupts.

    Eliot and Gretchen gave him the chance to provide for his family, at the start, and he turned it down in favour of crime.
    Good point but their offer was to pay for the medical treatment which he turned down out of pride I think. His family (inc disabled son and pregnant wife) needed setting up much more than that. Walter was a run of the mill chemistry teacher until the diagnosis which changed his life. I don't accept for a moment that he was always rotten.
  • Sunak’s even more of a publicity chaser than Johnson, which is saying something.

    Honestly what does he think he’s achieving?

    20 years ago the taxation on company cars was odd. We had to do a minimum mileage, so all of my fellow Nestle reps would drive separately to conferences and the like.

    Perhaps Sunak has the same arrangement with his private jet - he has to fly in it or they repossess it.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,348
    nico679 said:

    Stocky said:

    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    MattW said:

    For the PB Consumer Advice Department.

    I see that NetFlix are putting up prices again.

    Is there a killer reason I have not noticed for keeping the subscription open?

    ( I note that I haven't used it for quite some time.)

    Compared to Amazon there don't seem to be many bundled benefits.

    Sex Education & Lucifer.

    Stranger Things.

    FYI - I'm getting the top Netflix package for £7 a month via Sky.
    Is there a new series of Lucifer?
    Sadly not, but every few days I'll go and watch an old episode.
    Have you tried Designated Survivor? It’s getting a little silly in series 3 but series 1 is good


    I watched the first two series then gave up.
    A lot of these series have no overall plan. Which is why they disappear up their fundaments - typically the Big New Reveal is that the Big Bad the Our Heroes have just taken down is actually not THE Big Bad.

    A counter example is Person of Interest, where they steadily built up to the endgame over 5 seasons.
    Breaking Bad was the best at that.

    Although it was the Ozymandias episode which was the third to last episode of the show when you realised who the real bad guy was.
    I thought the whole point of he series was to slowly boil the frog - see how far you could take the viewers before they realised they were backing the Big Bad.
    A quite brilliant series . The brilliance is to keep people watching even though it’s not good against evil . Walter became increasingly dislikeable . Better Call Saul was also very good , with a bit of humour at times .
    The point was that Walt was evil from the start - dissolving bodies, chaining people up in basements? - but that he is gradually letting his inner nature take control.

    It’s the slow motion version of the guy who goes postal.
    Yes spot on but you wanted to like him . I couldn’t stop watching the series and had to force myself to go to bed at ridiculous times . There’s a lot of tripe out there so when you get a brilliant series you really appreciate it .
    Spoiler: I liked Walt until it because clear that his priority switched from being motivated to protect his family to being motivated primarily by the job satisfaction of making the 'perfect' product. We can all argue about when that point was.

    The programme makers cunning made Jesse superficially much more likeable (and fanciable) and he gets break after break by viewers where, for me, he was a scrote from the off. Then he shoots Gale is Series 3.

    I assume you have also seen El Camino?
    I was in two minds about watching it . Haven’t yet . Would you recommend it .
    Yes, it’s good.

    BSC was very good in parts, but ended lamely, like a Hays Code era gangster story.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,660
    Sean_F said:

    Up at 445 to head for mid-Beds. Long day ahead!

    3rd place is nothing to be ashamed of.

    The Israel has every tight to do that Party could of course also do better.

    Never had Nick down as a genocide supporter.

    You live and learn
    You really are a wazzock. You cannot brand Labour voters and members as being a "genocide supporter". I would say that its outrageous, but its worse - its pathetic.
    A touch of Plato syndrome about this. A once reasonable poster, who’s now just deranged.
    The problem as usual is absolutism. Support for Israel must mean condemnation of Palestine and vice versa. Not true - we need to secure peace and security for both. My problem is that the hard left endlessly repeat "from the river to the sea" - a polite way to describe the same Jew genocide planned by Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah and Iran.

    Park the bullshit around this hospital non-bombing for a moment. The hard left are in support of Hamas and IJ firing rockets aimed at murdering civilians. This rocket murdered some of their own civilians but thats OK as Hamas wants to kill as many Palestinians as possible as well

    And note how the world has treated the two alleged outrages. One is Hamas slaughtering in the most medieval ways thousands of Israel civilians - including so many small children - the other Israel bombing this hospital and killing 500.

    Despite all the evidence that Hamas psychopaths did slaughter their way through the peace festival and various towns and settlements. And the proof of what it did to those women and children. We still get endless arguments and denials and nitpicking - you can't say that Hamas beheaded 20 children it was only 10 etc.

    On the other hand we have this bullshit about Israel bombing a hospital. The literal word of the terrorists taken as gospel. And despite the obvious flaw in the lie - the hospital being patently not bombed - it is anyone questioning the lie who are condemned. Despite the media having to eat humble pie later.

    Treating the Jews - not Israelis - differently to any other group - is anti-semitism. And we are seeing it on a global scale now. As the firebombings - successful and failed - of synagogues in Tunisia and Germany and elsewhere demonstrates.
    Total nonsense.

    40 babies beheaded is nil babies beheaded

    The official Israeli death toll in Israel includes a likely majority of IDF deaths and stands at 1600 last time I looked you say thousands of civilians slaughtered in a medieval way

    You make no mention at all of numbers of innocents killed in Gaza and the West Bank the latter of which is nothing to do with Hamas. The total is far greater than in Israel with more to come


    Then you conclude it is Israel who is the injured party. I condemn Hamas' killings of innocents and Israeli killing of innocents. I have not seen you condemn the latter.

    Typical of you of course. You really should rejoin the pro genocide SKS Party they are made for you
    It’s okay, the babies were only riddled with bullets.
    Which should be condemned

    I presume you are able to condemn the dead babies in Gaza and the West Bank?

    You know like by saying that you do
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249

    My thanks to DA for mentioning Hunter Biden's naval career.

    For those who don't know the details:

    Biden's application for a position in the U.S. Navy Reserve was approved in May 2013.[138] At age 43, Biden was accepted as part of a program that allows a limited number of applicants with desirable skills to receive commissions and serve in staff positions.[139] Biden received an age-related waiver and a waiver for a past drug-related incident; he was sworn in as a direct commission officer by his father in a White House ceremony.[138][18]

    The urinalysis of a urine sample taken on his first weekend of reserve duty a few weeks later detected cocaine in his system.[18][139] He was discharged administratively in February 2014.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_Biden#Navy_Reserve

    Its clear that Hunter Biden has received special treatment in the past - whether it extended into other areas involving money grubbing and criminality I don't know.

    But the imagery of a serial felon receiving special treatment because of a family connection isn't good.

    It is utterly standard in American politics. So standard that the episode of West Wing about it barely raised an eyebrow - in the episode, they call in a whole bunch of aides to Senators and tell them that if they start blowvaiting about the President changing drug laws, that they (the West Wing staff) will put all the drug charges that the Senators have got their kids off… into the papers.

    I don't doubt it.

    But the problem is that it allows Trump to say that he's done nothing worse than the rest of them and that he's being unjustly singled out for legal persecution.
    As with everything Trump says and does, there is something behind it. Usually a long, long way behind.

    "Drain the swamp" is a good idea. But he is one of the worst things in the swamp, himself.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,213
    nico679 said:

    Stocky said:

    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    MattW said:

    For the PB Consumer Advice Department.

    I see that NetFlix are putting up prices again.

    Is there a killer reason I have not noticed for keeping the subscription open?

    ( I note that I haven't used it for quite some time.)

    Compared to Amazon there don't seem to be many bundled benefits.

    Sex Education & Lucifer.

    Stranger Things.

    FYI - I'm getting the top Netflix package for £7 a month via Sky.
    Is there a new series of Lucifer?
    Sadly not, but every few days I'll go and watch an old episode.
    Have you tried Designated Survivor? It’s getting a little silly in series 3 but series 1 is good


    I watched the first two series then gave up.
    A lot of these series have no overall plan. Which is why they disappear up their fundaments - typically the Big New Reveal is that the Big Bad the Our Heroes have just taken down is actually not THE Big Bad.

    A counter example is Person of Interest, where they steadily built up to the endgame over 5 seasons.
    Breaking Bad was the best at that.

    Although it was the Ozymandias episode which was the third to last episode of the show when you realised who the real bad guy was.
    I thought the whole point of he series was to slowly boil the frog - see how far you could take the viewers before they realised they were backing the Big Bad.
    A quite brilliant series . The brilliance is to keep people watching even though it’s not good against evil . Walter became increasingly dislikeable . Better Call Saul was also very good , with a bit of humour at times .
    The point was that Walt was evil from the start - dissolving bodies, chaining people up in basements? - but that he is gradually letting his inner nature take control.

    It’s the slow motion version of the guy who goes postal.
    Yes spot on but you wanted to like him . I couldn’t stop watching the series and had to force myself to go to bed at ridiculous times . There’s a lot of tripe out there so when you get a brilliant series you really appreciate it .
    Spoiler: I liked Walt until it because clear that his priority switched from being motivated to protect his family to being motivated primarily by the job satisfaction of making the 'perfect' product. We can all argue about when that point was.

    The programme makers cunning made Jesse superficially much more likeable (and fanciable) and he gets break after break by viewers where, for me, he was a scrote from the off. Then he shoots Gale is Series 3.

    I assume you have also seen El Camino?
    I was in two minds about watching it . Haven’t yet . Would you recommend it .
    Absolutely. It's excellent.
  • Good morning

    I would just like to extend my warmest thanks to everyone who sent their wishes for a quick recovery from a rather traumatic 24 hours in A & E and my DVT diagnosis

    I am at home, but very immobile and in pain and this morning my dear wife,who has been by my side throughout, has gone down with covid, notwithstanding our covid vaccination 2 weeks ago, and it has resulted in my daughter coming to look after us but WFH is such a blessing as she can do her job and be here for us at the same time

    I find the news most upsetting, and at present do not feel political as I have other priorities, but I would just say PB was at it best yesterday when so many were so kind to me, and across the political spectrum, that we should take a moment to understand just how uniquely special this forum is and would ask that nobody leaves because of ill judged posts but just ignore them and leave it to the moderators

    Sorry to hear about your troubles Big G - very best wishes to both of you.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,348
    boulay said:

    Sunak’s even more of a publicity chaser than Johnson, which is saying something.

    Honestly what does he think he’s achieving?

    Christ this sort of partisan bollocks is stupid. Added to the strain of Britain is irrelevant etc.

    He’s going to show support to an ally who is in a tricky situation which is important to Israel (much as we support visits from foreign dignitaries after less devastating things like the death of the Queen).

    But more than that he’s going to the region to speak to other leaders - leaders who had to shut the door to Biden yesterday because of the hospital bollocks where he can represent a view from the US and west in rooms with leaders who will be influential and still have good relations with us.

    Just because you aren’t the biggest guy in the playground it doesn’t mean you can’t affect anything or act as a useful conduit of views and negotiations.

    I’m guessing if Macron was doing this then you would be saying “see we are irrelevant, the French are using top level diplomacy and the UK is shit because Brexit, blah blah blah.”

    Edit to add I would expect Starmer or whoever was PM to be doing the same and I am certain they would.
    Completely agree.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    boulay said:



    He’s going to show support to an ally who is in a tricky situation which is important to Israel (much as we support visits from foreign dignitaries after less devastating things like the death of the Queen).

    How is Israel an "ally" of the UK? There's no treaty obligation and almost zero shared interests. The UK has a much closer defence relationship with Qatar who occasionally let Hamas use their Google Pay.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,145

    Good morning

    I would just like to extend my warmest thanks to everyone who sent their wishes for a quick recovery from a rather traumatic 24 hours in A & E and my DVT diagnosis

    I am at home, but very immobile and in pain and this morning my dear wife,who has been by my side throughout, has gone down with covid, notwithstanding our covid vaccination 2 weeks ago, and it has resulted in my daughter coming to look after us but WFH is such a blessing as she can do her job and be here for us at the same time

    I find the news most upsetting, and at present do not feel political as I have other priorities, but I would just say PB was at it best yesterday when so many were so kind to me, and across the political spectrum, that we should take a moment to understand just how uniquely special this forum is and would ask that nobody leaves because of ill judged posts but just ignore them and leave it to the moderators

    Sorry to hear about your troubles Big G - very best wishes to both of you.
    That's the second Going Down With COVID case I have heard about this week.

    My cousin in Kent has just had hubbie go down with it, so the house has been converted into a 'pair of sems' for the week.
  • MattW said:

    HYUFD said:

    Armed police confront 13 year old boy with water pistol

    "Boy with water pistol confronted by armed police - BBC News" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-67148208

    We need a photo of the device.

    We also need to recall that the police were there due to a report of a suspected firearm.

    Here was one which caused a previous "scandal" (below), linked from the BBC story, where a 12 year old was arrested for a 'weapon' that turned out to be a pellet gun.

    We need to remember that in the most year reported (21-22 iirc), there were FOUR incidents where police intentionally discharged firearms in the entire country.

    This part of the system seems to work to me.




    Yep. The important point here is 'police confront' rather than 'police shoot'.

    Seems they handled this well.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,073
    edited October 2023
    In an interesting, albeit long-term problem, Spain is undergoing desertification. Given that Spain and Ukraine are two of the largest contributors of food to Continental Europe, this will be a problem in a few decade's time.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    edited October 2023

    Good morning

    I would just like to extend my warmest thanks to everyone who sent their wishes for a quick recovery from a rather traumatic 24 hours in A & E and my DVT diagnosis

    I am at home, but very immobile and in pain and this morning my dear wife,who has been by my side throughout, has gone down with covid, notwithstanding our covid vaccination 2 weeks ago, and it has resulted in my daughter coming to look after us but WFH is such a blessing as she can do her job and be here for us at the same time

    I find the news most upsetting, and at present do not feel political as I have other priorities, but I would just say PB was at it best yesterday when so many were so kind to me, and across the political spectrum, that we should take a moment to understand just how uniquely special this forum is and would ask that nobody leaves because of ill judged posts but just ignore them and leave it to the moderators

    I haven't been onsite of late but best wishes for a speedy recovery for you and your wife.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    Perhaps one of the best Netflix series (and that is saying something, given the quality of productions the platform has produced) is/was Mindhunter. Fantastic exploration with reference to real life cases of the psychological approach of the FBI towards serial killers. Very sadly they cancelled it after two seasons. I understand because it cost so much to make. Or perhaps because one of the co-stars went off to voice Kristoff in Frozen in a real sublime to the ridiculous aspect to it all.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792

    Taz said:

    An open letter signed by well-known actors condemning Israeli military actions has been criticised for failing to mention brutal terror attacks carried out by Hamas.

    More than 2,000 artists, actors and musicians in the UK, including Tilda Swinton, Steve Coogan, Charles Dance and Maxine Peake, signed the letter.

    They called for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza and for “our governments to end their military and political support for Israel’s actions”.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/18/coogan-swinton-letter-condemns-israel-war-crimes-not-hamas/

    That would be the same Maxine Peake who contrived to show how Israel was responsible for the death of George Floyd?
    This sounds so insane I had to Google it.

    Bloody hell

    https://www.jewishnews.co.uk/maxine-peake-responds-to-row-over-claim-linking-george-floyd-death-to-israel/
    This is why I have a strict "don't ask" policy when it comes to artists and their personal views. Peake is a brilliant actor. She's a mentalist politically, but I don't care what her views are so I can keep watching her stuff.
    I feel the same way about Eddie Izzard - one of the finest and most original of comedians of our age even though I disagree entirely with just about evrything in his politics.

    The same goes for the Anti-vaxxer Clapton. I don't think his music is any less superb because he is a lunatic.
    Up to a point. I don't really mind if my favourite famous people have political views that are different to mine. But when I start to get the impression that they would mind very much if I had political opinions different to theirs - which is the impression you get from the likes of Steve Coogan and Maxine Peake - the cheerful indifference gets harder to maintain. I mean, Alan Partidge is no less funny for its creator being a bit of a twat. But it's hard to maintain a neutral opinion of the fella.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,660
    tlg86 said:

    @bigjohnowls - do you think Hamas are guilty of genocide?

    Yes

    the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.

    So a definite yes

    It also fits perfectly with what Israel is doing to Paletinians
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    biggles said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    By-election predictions:

    Tamworth: LAB by 2600 votes
    Mid Beds: LAB by 500 votes

    TAMWORTH:
    I've tacked close to the local election indicators here, and I'm pretty confident Labour have enough in the tank.

    The basis for the prediction is the 20 odd votes that Labour won the constituency by in the 2023 locals, plus the council by election that took place under the massive political shadow of the main by-election and showed a generic result of a further small percentage swing towards Labour. My result is Labour by around 8%.

    The Con memo saying their vote has halved could point to a larger Labour victory.

    MID BEDS:
    The local election results from May are complicated by a large, Tory leaning, independent vote. Natively, LE results suggest Tory win, and you have to count a lot of the Ind vote swinging Lab and/or LD to get any other result.

    But if you factor in such swing with Tories treading water on their LE vote shares, you do come up with something like the seat polling slowing it neck and neck between Con and Lab.

    I'm going that the various push and pull factors since then have balanced out and the constituency polling is close to the result.

    Labour's win very possibly to be on an under 30% vote share, and Con to beat LD.

    I'm well away from the local election results in predicting this, and last time I took a feeling in my water over LE results I undercooked the swing to Labour in Rutherglen, which LEs would have pointed to being comfortably over 10%.

    You can make a case for any finishing order here and I'm not confident.

    I think that’s about right. The weather may even yet play it’s role.
    Difficult to say who would benefit most. Traditionally, the Tories but these days I have my doubts.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,348
    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    An open letter signed by well-known actors condemning Israeli military actions has been criticised for failing to mention brutal terror attacks carried out by Hamas.

    More than 2,000 artists, actors and musicians in the UK, including Tilda Swinton, Steve Coogan, Charles Dance and Maxine Peake, signed the letter.

    They called for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza and for “our governments to end their military and political support for Israel’s actions”.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/18/coogan-swinton-letter-condemns-israel-war-crimes-not-hamas/

    That would be the same Maxine Peake who contrived to show how Israel was responsible for the death of George Floyd?
    This sounds so insane I had to Google it.

    Bloody hell

    https://www.jewishnews.co.uk/maxine-peake-responds-to-row-over-claim-linking-george-floyd-death-to-israel/
    This is why I have a strict "don't ask" policy when it comes to artists and their personal views. Peake is a brilliant actor. She's a mentalist politically, but I don't care what her views are so I can keep watching her stuff.
    I feel the same way about Eddie Izzard - one of the finest and most original of comedians of our age even though I disagree entirely with just about evrything in his politics.

    The same goes for the Anti-vaxxer Clapton. I don't think his music is any less superb because he is a lunatic.
    Up to a point. I don't really mind if my favourite famous people have political views that are different to mine. But when I start to get the impression that they would mind very much if I had political opinions different to theirs - which is the impression you get from the likes of Steve Coogan and Maxine Peake - the cheerful indifference gets harder to maintain. I mean, Alan Partidge is no less funny for its creator being a bit of a twat. But it's hard to maintain a neutral opinion of the fella.
    Alan Partridge is a nicer person than Steve Coogan.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792
    Sean_F said:

    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    An open letter signed by well-known actors condemning Israeli military actions has been criticised for failing to mention brutal terror attacks carried out by Hamas.

    More than 2,000 artists, actors and musicians in the UK, including Tilda Swinton, Steve Coogan, Charles Dance and Maxine Peake, signed the letter.

    They called for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza and for “our governments to end their military and political support for Israel’s actions”.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/18/coogan-swinton-letter-condemns-israel-war-crimes-not-hamas/

    That would be the same Maxine Peake who contrived to show how Israel was responsible for the death of George Floyd?
    This sounds so insane I had to Google it.

    Bloody hell

    https://www.jewishnews.co.uk/maxine-peake-responds-to-row-over-claim-linking-george-floyd-death-to-israel/
    This is why I have a strict "don't ask" policy when it comes to artists and their personal views. Peake is a brilliant actor. She's a mentalist politically, but I don't care what her views are so I can keep watching her stuff.
    I feel the same way about Eddie Izzard - one of the finest and most original of comedians of our age even though I disagree entirely with just about evrything in his politics.

    The same goes for the Anti-vaxxer Clapton. I don't think his music is any less superb because he is a lunatic.
    Up to a point. I don't really mind if my favourite famous people have political views that are different to mine. But when I start to get the impression that they would mind very much if I had political opinions different to theirs - which is the impression you get from the likes of Steve Coogan and Maxine Peake - the cheerful indifference gets harder to maintain. I mean, Alan Partidge is no less funny for its creator being a bit of a twat. But it's hard to maintain a neutral opinion of the fella.
    Alan Partridge is a nicer person than Steve Coogan.
    Yes, true. I would rather spend an hour in a pub with Alan than with Steve.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,348
    Stocky said:

    Sean_F said:

    Stocky said:

    MattW said:

    For the PB Consumer Advice Department.

    I see that NetFlix are putting up prices again.

    Is there a killer reason I have not noticed for keeping the subscription open?

    ( I note that I haven't used it for quite some time.)

    Compared to Amazon there don't seem to be many bundled benefits.

    Sex Education & Lucifer.

    Stranger Things.

    FYI - I'm getting the top Netflix package for £7 a month via Sky.
    Is there a new series of Lucifer?
    Sadly not, but every few days I'll go and watch an old episode.
    Have you tried Designated Survivor? It’s getting a little silly in series 3 but series 1 is good


    I watched the first two series then gave up.
    A lot of these series have no overall plan. Which is why they disappear up their fundaments - typically the Big New Reveal is that the Big Bad the Our Heroes have just taken down is actually not THE Big Bad.

    A counter example is Person of Interest, where they steadily built up to the endgame over 5 seasons.
    Breaking Bad was the best at that.

    Although it was the Ozymandias episode which was the third to last episode of the show when you realised who the real bad guy was.
    I thought the whole point of he series was to slowly boil the frog - see how far you could take the viewers before they realised they were backing the Big Bad.
    Yes indeed. How far does your moral philosophy stretch?

    I was with Walt for much longer than most viewers. I've watched it four times now and if you watch it again see if you agree with me that Jesse was a baddie much earlier on than Walt, yet viewers generally give Jesse a pass entirely.
    Walter was always rotten. His story is power reveals, rather than power corrupts.

    Eliot and Gretchen gave him the chance to provide for his family, at the start, and he turned it down in favour of crime.
    Good point but their offer was to pay for the medical treatment which he turned down out of pride I think. His family (inc disabled son and pregnant wife) needed setting up much more than that. Walter was a run of the mill chemistry teacher until the diagnosis which changed his life. I don't accept for a moment that he was always rotten.
    The offer was a company directorship on a high salary, plus payment of his medical bills.

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,552
    Happy voting in Mid Beds and capital of Mercia Tamworth.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,073
    Dura_Ace said:

    boulay said:



    He’s going to show support to an ally who is in a tricky situation which is important to Israel (much as we support visits from foreign dignitaries after less devastating things like the death of the Queen).

    How is Israel an "ally" of the UK? There's no treaty obligation and almost zero shared interests. The UK has a much closer defence relationship with Qatar who occasionally let Hamas use their Google Pay.
    See also India. Often referred to as an ally of the UK. But simply isn't, and in some cases (eg Salisbury) is less of an ally than, say, France.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    I agree with Brady. Party members should have a (big) say in who the leader so long as the party is in opposition. If it's to pick a new PM it should be MPs only.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    Dura_Ace said:

    My thanks to DA for mentioning Hunter Biden's naval career.

    For those who don't know the details:

    Biden's application for a position in the U.S. Navy Reserve was approved in May 2013.[138] At age 43, Biden was accepted as part of a program that allows a limited number of applicants with desirable skills to receive commissions and serve in staff positions.[139] Biden received an age-related waiver and a waiver for a past drug-related incident; he was sworn in as a direct commission officer by his father in a White House ceremony.[138][18]

    The urinalysis of a urine sample taken on his first weekend of reserve duty a few weeks later detected cocaine in his system.[18][139] He was discharged administratively in February 2014.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_Biden#Navy_Reserve

    Its clear that Hunter Biden has received special treatment in the past - whether it extended into other areas involving money grubbing and criminality I don't know.

    But the imagery of a serial felon receiving special treatment because of a family connection isn't good.

    It's pretty stinky, although at least the USN did the right thing and hoofed him at the first possible opportunity. That piss test probably wasn't completely random...

    HB also wouldn't take his medicine and tried to brazen it out by saying he cadged a fag off somebody that must have been laced with cocaine.
    Unlike another president's son with substance abuse problems and a curiously accelerated commission in the military reserve, though, he has no involvement in politics, and is never likely to.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    Andy_JS said:

    Happy voting in Mid Beds and capital of Mercia Tamworth.

    It was one of several ancient capitals of Mercia. At various times Chester, Gloucester and Coventry all fulfilled that role as well.

    #pedanticbetting.com
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792
    viewcode said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    boulay said:



    He’s going to show support to an ally who is in a tricky situation which is important to Israel (much as we support visits from foreign dignitaries after less devastating things like the death of the Queen).

    How is Israel an "ally" of the UK? There's no treaty obligation and almost zero shared interests. The UK has a much closer defence relationship with Qatar who occasionally let Hamas use their Google Pay.
    See also India. Often referred to as an ally of the UK. But simply isn't, and in some cases (eg Salisbury) is less of an ally than, say, France.
    Well yes. But I'd say if France found itself in the situation Israel currently is, we would be rather more unequivocally on France's side.

    We may spat with the French, but ultimately it's a fraternal spat; if we listed all the countries in the world from ally to enemy, France would be pretty close to the top of the list.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,073
    Andy_JS said:

    Happy voting in Mid Beds and capital of Mercia Tamworth.

    That sounds like a single constituency: "Mid Beds And Capital Of Mercia Tamworth" :)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,188
    Andy_JS said:

    Happy voting in Mid Beds and capital of Mercia Tamworth.

    Tamworth always makes me think of the Tamworth two.
  • Sean_F said:

    Up at 445 to head for mid-Beds. Long day ahead!

    3rd place is nothing to be ashamed of.

    The Israel has every tight to do that Party could of course also do better.

    Never had Nick down as a genocide supporter.

    You live and learn
    You really are a wazzock. You cannot brand Labour voters and members as being a "genocide supporter". I would say that its outrageous, but its worse - its pathetic.
    A touch of Plato syndrome about this. A once reasonable poster, who’s now just deranged.
    The problem as usual is absolutism. Support for Israel must mean condemnation of Palestine and vice versa. Not true - we need to secure peace and security for both. My problem is that the hard left endlessly repeat "from the river to the sea" - a polite way to describe the same Jew genocide planned by Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah and Iran.

    Park the bullshit around this hospital non-bombing for a moment. The hard left are in support of Hamas and IJ firing rockets aimed at murdering civilians. This rocket murdered some of their own civilians but thats OK as Hamas wants to kill as many Palestinians as possible as well

    And note how the world has treated the two alleged outrages. One is Hamas slaughtering in the most medieval ways thousands of Israel civilians - including so many small children - the other Israel bombing this hospital and killing 500.

    Despite all the evidence that Hamas psychopaths did slaughter their way through the peace festival and various towns and settlements. And the proof of what it did to those women and children. We still get endless arguments and denials and nitpicking - you can't say that Hamas beheaded 20 children it was only 10 etc.

    On the other hand we have this bullshit about Israel bombing a hospital. The literal word of the terrorists taken as gospel. And despite the obvious flaw in the lie - the hospital being patently not bombed - it is anyone questioning the lie who are condemned. Despite the media having to eat humble pie later.

    Treating the Jews - not Israelis - differently to any other group - is anti-semitism. And we are seeing it on a global scale now. As the firebombings - successful and failed - of synagogues in Tunisia and Germany and elsewhere demonstrates.
    Total nonsense.

    40 babies beheaded is nil babies beheaded

    The official Israeli death toll in Israel includes a likely majority of IDF deaths and stands at 1600 last time I looked you say thousands of civilians slaughtered in a medieval way

    You make no mention at all of numbers of innocents killed in Gaza and the West Bank the latter of which is nothing to do with Hamas. The total is far greater than in Israel with more to come


    Then you conclude it is Israel who is the injured party. I condemn Hamas' killings of innocents and Israeli killing of innocents. I have not seen you condemn the latter.

    Typical of you of course. You really should rejoin the pro genocide SKS Party they are made for you
    It’s okay, the babies were only riddled with bullets.
    Which should be condemned

    I presume you are able to condemn the dead babies in Gaza and the West Bank?

    You know like by saying that you do
    What on earth makes you even need to ask the question. Innocent civilians are innocent - regardless of nationality. We've all said so repeatedly. The pro-Israel international community is saying so - the American's literally instructing Israel not to break international law and to allow in aid.

    Here is the difference. All we have heard from the crank left for ages - and even louder now - is that Israel have brought it on themselves. That they deserve it because of their "occupation" of Gaza.

    Which rather negates the "which should be condemned". As it wasn't condemned. You simply deny that it happened. As you did an hour ago on this very forum. So hard evidence of Hamas atrocities is denied and excused. Hamas lies about 500 dead in a hospital bombed by Israel must be accepted as fact.

    There is a simple problem - religious crazies on both sides think the land was given to them by God. So there isn't a simple explanation where one side is good and righteous and the other evil and monstrous. Both are wrong, both have done monstrous things. And a settlement will have to be found.

    But there can be no settlement in calling for the extermination of Israel by force - which is what "from the river to the sea" is. Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, Iran - Sunni and Shia muslims united only in their calls for genocide against the Jew. Whatever crimes Israel commits - and there are many - they aren't engaged with genocide against the muslim.

    This is the basic difference. All innocent civilians are innocent. But the *governments* and *religious leaders* are very different. And who are the government in Gaza? Who are the health ministry officials lying about the hospital which clearly wasn't blown up? The very same religious lunatics launching missiles to slaughter the innocent and the jihadis beheading babies. If we're choosing sides - and you lot insist we do - I'm on the side that opposes them.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792
    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Happy voting in Mid Beds and capital of Mercia Tamworth.

    That sounds like a single constituency: "Mid Beds And Capital Of Mercia Tamworth" :)
    I lolled, and then lolled at the fact that only on here is that in any way a cromulent joke.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,213
    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    An open letter signed by well-known actors condemning Israeli military actions has been criticised for failing to mention brutal terror attacks carried out by Hamas.

    More than 2,000 artists, actors and musicians in the UK, including Tilda Swinton, Steve Coogan, Charles Dance and Maxine Peake, signed the letter.

    They called for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza and for “our governments to end their military and political support for Israel’s actions”.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/18/coogan-swinton-letter-condemns-israel-war-crimes-not-hamas/

    That would be the same Maxine Peake who contrived to show how Israel was responsible for the death of George Floyd?
    This sounds so insane I had to Google it.

    Bloody hell

    https://www.jewishnews.co.uk/maxine-peake-responds-to-row-over-claim-linking-george-floyd-death-to-israel/
    This is why I have a strict "don't ask" policy when it comes to artists and their personal views. Peake is a brilliant actor. She's a mentalist politically, but I don't care what her views are so I can keep watching her stuff.
    I feel the same way about Eddie Izzard - one of the finest and most original of comedians of our age even though I disagree entirely with just about evrything in his politics.

    The same goes for the Anti-vaxxer Clapton. I don't think his music is any less superb because he is a lunatic.
    Up to a point. I don't really mind if my favourite famous people have political views that are different to mine. But when I start to get the impression that they would mind very much if I had political opinions different to theirs - which is the impression you get from the likes of Steve Coogan and Maxine Peake - the cheerful indifference gets harder to maintain. I mean, Alan Partidge is no less funny for its creator being a bit of a twat. But it's hard to maintain a neutral opinion of the fella.
    Yes - shows you are a liberal and they less so.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,419

    MattW said:

    For the PB Consumer Advice Department.

    I see that NetFlix are putting up prices again.

    Is there a killer reason I have not noticed for keeping the subscription open?

    ( I note that I haven't used it for quite some time.)

    Compared to Amazon there don't seem to be many bundled benefits.

    Sex Education & Lucifer.

    Stranger Things.

    FYI - I'm getting the top Netflix package for £7 a month via Sky.
    If you haven't learnt by now...
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792
    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Happy voting in Mid Beds and capital of Mercia Tamworth.

    It was one of several ancient capitals of Mercia. At various times Chester, Gloucester and Coventry all fulfilled that role as well.

    #pedanticbetting.com
    And Repton, I think?
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,213
    Confession: until this morning on here I had never heard of Maxine Peake.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,376

    Good morning

    I would just like to extend my warmest thanks to everyone who sent their wishes for a quick recovery from a rather traumatic 24 hours in A & E and my DVT diagnosis

    I am at home, but very immobile and in pain and this morning my dear wife,who has been by my side throughout, has gone down with covid, notwithstanding our covid vaccination 2 weeks ago, and it has resulted in my daughter coming to look after us but WFH is such a blessing as she can do her job and be here for us at the same time

    I find the news most upsetting, and at present do not feel political as I have other priorities, but I would just say PB was at it best yesterday when so many were so kind to me, and across the political spectrum, that we should take a moment to understand just how uniquely special this forum is and would ask that nobody leaves because of ill judged posts but just ignore them and leave it to the moderators

    My warmest wishes to you for a speedy recovery.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    Dura_Ace said:

    boulay said:



    He’s going to show support to an ally who is in a tricky situation which is important to Israel (much as we support visits from foreign dignitaries after less devastating things like the death of the Queen).

    How is Israel an "ally" of the UK? There's no treaty obligation and almost zero shared interests. The UK has a much closer defence relationship with Qatar who occasionally let Hamas use their Google Pay.
    We do have a "Roadmap".
    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-and-israel-to-sign-landmark-agreement-deepening-tech-trade-and-security-ties#:~:text=Press release-,UK and Israel to sign landmark agreement deepening tech, trade,economic, security and technology ties.&text=Foreign Secretary James Cleverly with the Israeli Foreign Minister, Eli Cohen.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355
    Cookie said:

    viewcode said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    boulay said:



    He’s going to show support to an ally who is in a tricky situation which is important to Israel (much as we support visits from foreign dignitaries after less devastating things like the death of the Queen).

    How is Israel an "ally" of the UK? There's no treaty obligation and almost zero shared interests. The UK has a much closer defence relationship with Qatar who occasionally let Hamas use their Google Pay.
    See also India. Often referred to as an ally of the UK. But simply isn't, and in some cases (eg Salisbury) is less of an ally than, say, France.
    Well yes. But I'd say if France found itself in the situation Israel currently is, we would be rather more unequivocally on France's side.

    We may spat with the French, but ultimately it's a fraternal spat; if we listed all the countries in the world from ally to enemy, France would be pretty close to the top of the list.
    Churchill's idea to form an Anglo-French Union in 1940 wasn't his most ridiculous idea. Would have been interesting to see how that panned out.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    Stocky said:

    Confession: until this morning on here I had never heard of Maxine Peake.

    So today is peak Maxine.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    Cookie said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Happy voting in Mid Beds and capital of Mercia Tamworth.

    It was one of several ancient capitals of Mercia. At various times Chester, Gloucester and Coventry all fulfilled that role as well.

    #pedanticbetting.com
    And Repton, I think?
    I went to primary school at Repton, and one of the delights were the occasions we were allowed to go down into the Anglo-Sexon church crypt. An amazing experience for a small kid.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Wystan's_Church,_Repton

    If you bury your kings there, it's your capital. ;)
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    Sean_F said:

    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    An open letter signed by well-known actors condemning Israeli military actions has been criticised for failing to mention brutal terror attacks carried out by Hamas.

    More than 2,000 artists, actors and musicians in the UK, including Tilda Swinton, Steve Coogan, Charles Dance and Maxine Peake, signed the letter.

    They called for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza and for “our governments to end their military and political support for Israel’s actions”.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/18/coogan-swinton-letter-condemns-israel-war-crimes-not-hamas/

    That would be the same Maxine Peake who contrived to show how Israel was responsible for the death of George Floyd?
    This sounds so insane I had to Google it.

    Bloody hell

    https://www.jewishnews.co.uk/maxine-peake-responds-to-row-over-claim-linking-george-floyd-death-to-israel/
    This is why I have a strict "don't ask" policy when it comes to artists and their personal views. Peake is a brilliant actor. She's a mentalist politically, but I don't care what her views are so I can keep watching her stuff.
    I feel the same way about Eddie Izzard - one of the finest and most original of comedians of our age even though I disagree entirely with just about evrything in his politics.

    The same goes for the Anti-vaxxer Clapton. I don't think his music is any less superb because he is a lunatic.
    Up to a point. I don't really mind if my favourite famous people have political views that are different to mine. But when I start to get the impression that they would mind very much if I had political opinions different to theirs - which is the impression you get from the likes of Steve Coogan and Maxine Peake - the cheerful indifference gets harder to maintain. I mean, Alan Partidge is no less funny for its creator being a bit of a twat. But it's hard to maintain a neutral opinion of the fella.
    Alan Partridge is a nicer person than Steve Coogan.
    You're probably only saying that because Partridge is a Conservative. People tend to impute positive qualities to those who share their politics.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355

    biggles said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    By-election predictions:

    Tamworth: LAB by 2600 votes
    Mid Beds: LAB by 500 votes

    TAMWORTH:
    I've tacked close to the local election indicators here, and I'm pretty confident Labour have enough in the tank.

    The basis for the prediction is the 20 odd votes that Labour won the constituency by in the 2023 locals, plus the council by election that took place under the massive political shadow of the main by-election and showed a generic result of a further small percentage swing towards Labour. My result is Labour by around 8%.

    The Con memo saying their vote has halved could point to a larger Labour victory.

    MID BEDS:
    The local election results from May are complicated by a large, Tory leaning, independent vote. Natively, LE results suggest Tory win, and you have to count a lot of the Ind vote swinging Lab and/or LD to get any other result.

    But if you factor in such swing with Tories treading water on their LE vote shares, you do come up with something like the seat polling slowing it neck and neck between Con and Lab.

    I'm going that the various push and pull factors since then have balanced out and the constituency polling is close to the result.

    Labour's win very possibly to be on an under 30% vote share, and Con to beat LD.

    I'm well away from the local election results in predicting this, and last time I took a feeling in my water over LE results I undercooked the swing to Labour in Rutherglen, which LEs would have pointed to being comfortably over 10%.

    You can make a case for any finishing order here and I'm not confident.

    I think that’s about right. The weather may even yet play it’s role.
    Difficult to say who would benefit most. Traditionally, the Tories but these days I have my doubts.
    The Tory vote skews very strongly old, as does postal voting. Anything that makes it harder to vote on the day - weather, ID, etc - will favour the Tories because of the postal voting effect.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,419
    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Happy voting in Mid Beds and capital of Mercia Tamworth.

    Tamworth always makes me think of the Tamworth two.
    Makes me think of the Tamworth Manifesto. I'm not aware of ever being in Tamworth.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,376
    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    An open letter signed by well-known actors condemning Israeli military actions has been criticised for failing to mention brutal terror attacks carried out by Hamas.

    More than 2,000 artists, actors and musicians in the UK, including Tilda Swinton, Steve Coogan, Charles Dance and Maxine Peake, signed the letter.

    They called for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza and for “our governments to end their military and political support for Israel’s actions”.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/18/coogan-swinton-letter-condemns-israel-war-crimes-not-hamas/

    That would be the same Maxine Peake who contrived to show how Israel was responsible for the death of George Floyd?
    This sounds so insane I had to Google it.

    Bloody hell

    https://www.jewishnews.co.uk/maxine-peake-responds-to-row-over-claim-linking-george-floyd-death-to-israel/
    This is why I have a strict "don't ask" policy when it comes to artists and their personal views. Peake is a brilliant actor. She's a mentalist politically, but I don't care what her views are so I can keep watching her stuff.
    I feel the same way about Eddie Izzard - one of the finest and most original of comedians of our age even though I disagree entirely with just about evrything in his politics.

    The same goes for the Anti-vaxxer Clapton. I don't think his music is any less superb because he is a lunatic.
    Up to a point. I don't really mind if my favourite famous people have political views that are different to mine. But when I start to get the impression that they would mind very much if I had political opinions different to theirs - which is the impression you get from the likes of Steve Coogan and Maxine Peake - the cheerful indifference gets harder to maintain. I mean, Alan Partidge is no less funny for its creator being a bit of a twat. But it's hard to maintain a neutral opinion of the fella.
    Alan Partridge is a nicer person than Steve Coogan.
    You're probably only saying that because Partridge is a Conservative. People tend to impute positive qualities to those who share their politics.
    Alan just wants to be liked and approved. He wants to fit in.

    That doesn’t make him bad.

    As for politics he was Tory in his early years when Peter Baynham and Armando Ianucci wrote for him. His politics rarely get mentioned these days.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792
    edited October 2023
    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    An open letter signed by well-known actors condemning Israeli military actions has been criticised for failing to mention brutal terror attacks carried out by Hamas.

    More than 2,000 artists, actors and musicians in the UK, including Tilda Swinton, Steve Coogan, Charles Dance and Maxine Peake, signed the letter.

    They called for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza and for “our governments to end their military and political support for Israel’s actions”.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/18/coogan-swinton-letter-condemns-israel-war-crimes-not-hamas/

    That would be the same Maxine Peake who contrived to show how Israel was responsible for the death of George Floyd?
    This sounds so insane I had to Google it.

    Bloody hell

    https://www.jewishnews.co.uk/maxine-peake-responds-to-row-over-claim-linking-george-floyd-death-to-israel/
    This is why I have a strict "don't ask" policy when it comes to artists and their personal views. Peake is a brilliant actor. She's a mentalist politically, but I don't care what her views are so I can keep watching her stuff.
    I feel the same way about Eddie Izzard - one of the finest and most original of comedians of our age even though I disagree entirely with just about evrything in his politics.

    The same goes for the Anti-vaxxer Clapton. I don't think his music is any less superb because he is a lunatic.
    Up to a point. I don't really mind if my favourite famous people have political views that are different to mine. But when I start to get the impression that they would mind very much if I had political opinions different to theirs - which is the impression you get from the likes of Steve Coogan and Maxine Peake - the cheerful indifference gets harder to maintain. I mean, Alan Partidge is no less funny for its creator being a bit of a twat. But it's hard to maintain a neutral opinion of the fella.
    Alan Partridge is a nicer person than Steve Coogan.
    You're probably only saying that because Partridge is a Conservative. People tend to impute positive qualities to those who share their politics.
    No, I don't think that's right. (Though it's worth analysing). Partridge may be a Conservative, but I don't think I have a lot in common with Partridge politically. But I don't think Partridge would instinctively disapprove of me, whereas I think Coogan would. I think Partridge would also make an effort to keep the conversation light, which I'm not sure Coogan would.
    And I could also spend an hour in the pub with Saxondale, and I don't get the impression he's in any way conservative.

    EDIT: Also, I am a 40-something living in suburban Greater Manchester and working in the public sector. If I could only go to the pub with conservatives, I would never leave the house!
  • Stocky said:

    Confession: until this morning on here I had never heard of Maxine Peake.

    No idea who she is unless she is one of the twins.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,213

    MattW said:

    For the PB Consumer Advice Department.

    I see that NetFlix are putting up prices again.

    Is there a killer reason I have not noticed for keeping the subscription open?

    ( I note that I haven't used it for quite some time.)

    Compared to Amazon there don't seem to be many bundled benefits.

    Sex Education & Lucifer.

    Stranger Things.

    FYI - I'm getting the top Netflix package for £7 a month via Sky.
    Interesting. I get Netflix (dunno the cost) and no Sky. But I'd quite like Sky but only Sports and only for the golf.

    Can I get Sky Sports with Netflix included?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    edited October 2023
    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    An open letter signed by well-known actors condemning Israeli military actions has been criticised for failing to mention brutal terror attacks carried out by Hamas.

    More than 2,000 artists, actors and musicians in the UK, including Tilda Swinton, Steve Coogan, Charles Dance and Maxine Peake, signed the letter.

    They called for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza and for “our governments to end their military and political support for Israel’s actions”.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/18/coogan-swinton-letter-condemns-israel-war-crimes-not-hamas/

    That would be the same Maxine Peake who contrived to show how Israel was responsible for the death of George Floyd?
    This sounds so insane I had to Google it.

    Bloody hell

    https://www.jewishnews.co.uk/maxine-peake-responds-to-row-over-claim-linking-george-floyd-death-to-israel/
    This is why I have a strict "don't ask" policy when it comes to artists and their personal views. Peake is a brilliant actor. She's a mentalist politically, but I don't care what her views are so I can keep watching her stuff.
    I feel the same way about Eddie Izzard - one of the finest and most original of comedians of our age even though I disagree entirely with just about evrything in his politics.

    The same goes for the Anti-vaxxer Clapton. I don't think his music is any less superb because he is a lunatic.
    Up to a point. I don't really mind if my favourite famous people have political views that are different to mine. But when I start to get the impression that they would mind very much if I had political opinions different to theirs - which is the impression you get from the likes of Steve Coogan and Maxine Peake - the cheerful indifference gets harder to maintain. I mean, Alan Partidge is no less funny for its creator being a bit of a twat. But it's hard to maintain a neutral opinion of the fella.
    This is in practice a bigger issue for right wingers like you because famous entertainers, actors, song and dance merchants, writers, artistic and cultural big bananas in general, skew left. If you were to 'cancel' them on that basis you'd be left with meagre rations indeed. So although I agree and applaud your tolerant take on it (and I do agree and applaud it) I also have to note this self-interest angle.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288

    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Happy voting in Mid Beds and capital of Mercia Tamworth.

    Tamworth always makes me think of the Tamworth two.
    Makes me think of the Tamworth Manifesto. I'm not aware of ever being in Tamworth.
    The train folk on here will probably associate the Tamworth Triangle, the sad spate of people falling out of the doors moving trains in the Tamworth area:

    https://1991-new-world-order.fandom.com/wiki/The_'Tamworth_Triangle'
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    Dura_Ace said:

    How is Israel an "ally" of the UK? There's no treaty obligation and almost zero shared interests. The UK has a much closer defence relationship with Qatar who occasionally let Hamas use their Google Pay.

    Perhaps you and I were too young and therefore missed the 30-40 years of proxy wars in the Middle East conducted between USSR & NATO via Syria, Egypt, Israel, usw. In that sense they are an ally.

    Now that the cold war is over, the proxy war continues nevertheless.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792
    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    An open letter signed by well-known actors condemning Israeli military actions has been criticised for failing to mention brutal terror attacks carried out by Hamas.

    More than 2,000 artists, actors and musicians in the UK, including Tilda Swinton, Steve Coogan, Charles Dance and Maxine Peake, signed the letter.

    They called for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza and for “our governments to end their military and political support for Israel’s actions”.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/18/coogan-swinton-letter-condemns-israel-war-crimes-not-hamas/

    That would be the same Maxine Peake who contrived to show how Israel was responsible for the death of George Floyd?
    This sounds so insane I had to Google it.

    Bloody hell

    https://www.jewishnews.co.uk/maxine-peake-responds-to-row-over-claim-linking-george-floyd-death-to-israel/
    This is why I have a strict "don't ask" policy when it comes to artists and their personal views. Peake is a brilliant actor. She's a mentalist politically, but I don't care what her views are so I can keep watching her stuff.
    I feel the same way about Eddie Izzard - one of the finest and most original of comedians of our age even though I disagree entirely with just about evrything in his politics.

    The same goes for the Anti-vaxxer Clapton. I don't think his music is any less superb because he is a lunatic.
    Up to a point. I don't really mind if my favourite famous people have political views that are different to mine. But when I start to get the impression that they would mind very much if I had political opinions different to theirs - which is the impression you get from the likes of Steve Coogan and Maxine Peake - the cheerful indifference gets harder to maintain. I mean, Alan Partidge is no less funny for its creator being a bit of a twat. But it's hard to maintain a neutral opinion of the fella.
    This is in practice a bigger issue for right wingers like you because famous entertainers, actors, song and dance merchants, writers, artistic and cultural big bananas in general, skew left. If you were to 'cancel' them on that basis you'd be left with meagre rations indeed. So although I agree and applaud your tolerant take on it (and I do agree and applaud it) I also have to note this self-interest angle.
    That's true. But there's left wingers and left wingers. I've just finished Dave Grohl's autobiography. He makes no secret of his strongly felt Democrat leanings. But he also discusses the more important need to be able to get on with people whatever their views, and laments that America is currently unable to do this. I'd say that's the more important factor.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011

    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Happy voting in Mid Beds and capital of Mercia Tamworth.

    Tamworth always makes me think of the Tamworth two.
    Makes me think of the Tamworth Manifesto. I'm not aware of ever being in Tamworth.
    The Tamworth Triangle.

    There was a spate of passengers vanishing from trains. Theory was that the doors sprung open going round twisty sections of track and the poor folks fell out.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    Pro_Rata said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Happy voting in Mid Beds and capital of Mercia Tamworth.

    Tamworth always makes me think of the Tamworth two.
    Makes me think of the Tamworth Manifesto. I'm not aware of ever being in Tamworth.
    The train folk on here will probably associate the Tamworth Triangle, the sad spate of people falling out of the doors moving trains in the Tamworth area:

    https://1991-new-world-order.fandom.com/wiki/The_'Tamworth_Triangle'
    Fascinating! I see it became such a thing that overseas tourist guides warned their readers about it. And I liked the warning:

    'Note: It is not to be confused with the "Tamworth Triangle" business park, Tamworth, New Hampshire, USA.'
  • Stocky said:

    MattW said:

    For the PB Consumer Advice Department.

    I see that NetFlix are putting up prices again.

    Is there a killer reason I have not noticed for keeping the subscription open?

    ( I note that I haven't used it for quite some time.)

    Compared to Amazon there don't seem to be many bundled benefits.

    Sex Education & Lucifer.

    Stranger Things.

    FYI - I'm getting the top Netflix package for £7 a month via Sky.
    Interesting. I get Netflix (dunno the cost) and no Sky. But I'd quite like Sky but only Sports and only for the golf.

    Can I get Sky Sports with Netflix included?
    If you really only want the golf, a now tv sky sports subscription when they do a deal probably best option. Should be able to get 6 months at £20-25 which would cover most of the main golf season.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,206
    viewcode said:

    Nigelb said:

    The latest in the Britishvolt saga.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67149907

    It's frankly pathetic that the government has allowed what is a significant national energy infrastructure site to fall into the hands of successive chancers with no serious plans.

    Nationalise it. In a world full of complex problems, it is nice to have one that is solved quickly.
    If they did that, it would be British Leyland Mk2. Buying a dubious brand, a few aces of mud and some grand intentions seem like a particularly poor waste of taxpayers money.
    At least British Leyland started with the advantage of actually having a load of car plants building cars.

    If Toyota's recent claims about solid state batteries are true, the current government push for cars built on wet batteries is going to look as stupid and misguided as the millions wasted on replacing incandescent bulbs with compact fluorescents just before LED technology matured.

    Governments everywhere have lots of form for picking poor technologies and forcing them on everyone at vast expense.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    edited October 2023
    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    An open letter signed by well-known actors condemning Israeli military actions has been criticised for failing to mention brutal terror attacks carried out by Hamas.

    More than 2,000 artists, actors and musicians in the UK, including Tilda Swinton, Steve Coogan, Charles Dance and Maxine Peake, signed the letter.

    They called for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza and for “our governments to end their military and political support for Israel’s actions”.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/18/coogan-swinton-letter-condemns-israel-war-crimes-not-hamas/

    That would be the same Maxine Peake who contrived to show how Israel was responsible for the death of George Floyd?
    This sounds so insane I had to Google it.

    Bloody hell

    https://www.jewishnews.co.uk/maxine-peake-responds-to-row-over-claim-linking-george-floyd-death-to-israel/
    This is why I have a strict "don't ask" policy when it comes to artists and their personal views. Peake is a brilliant actor. She's a mentalist politically, but I don't care what her views are so I can keep watching her stuff.
    I feel the same way about Eddie Izzard - one of the finest and most original of comedians of our age even though I disagree entirely with just about evrything in his politics.

    The same goes for the Anti-vaxxer Clapton. I don't think his music is any less superb because he is a lunatic.
    Up to a point. I don't really mind if my favourite famous people have political views that are different to mine. But when I start to get the impression that they would mind very much if I had political opinions different to theirs - which is the impression you get from the likes of Steve Coogan and Maxine Peake - the cheerful indifference gets harder to maintain. I mean, Alan Partidge is no less funny for its creator being a bit of a twat. But it's hard to maintain a neutral opinion of the fella.
    Alan Partridge is a nicer person than Steve Coogan.
    You're probably only saying that because Partridge is a Conservative. People tend to impute positive qualities to those who share their politics.
    Alan just wants to be liked and approved. He wants to fit in.

    That doesn’t make him bad.

    As for politics he was Tory in his early years when Peter Baynham and Armando Ianucci wrote for him. His politics rarely get mentioned these days.
    Alan would have definitly voted for Blair over Major. Would have voted for Cameron. Would have voted for Boris. Would now vote for Starmer.

    he's basically middle england in a nut shell. He's a Mondeo Man.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,213

    Stocky said:

    MattW said:

    For the PB Consumer Advice Department.

    I see that NetFlix are putting up prices again.

    Is there a killer reason I have not noticed for keeping the subscription open?

    ( I note that I haven't used it for quite some time.)

    Compared to Amazon there don't seem to be many bundled benefits.

    Sex Education & Lucifer.

    Stranger Things.

    FYI - I'm getting the top Netflix package for £7 a month via Sky.
    Interesting. I get Netflix (dunno the cost) and no Sky. But I'd quite like Sky but only Sports and only for the golf.

    Can I get Sky Sports with Netflix included?
    If you really only want the golf, a now tv sky sports subscription when they do a deal probably best option. Should be able to get 6 months at £20-25 which would cover most of the main golf season.
    That's what I do now. I used to pay Now TV £11 each day I wanted to watch Sky Sports but that's £44 if I want to watch all 4 days of a tournament.
  • Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    An open letter signed by well-known actors condemning Israeli military actions has been criticised for failing to mention brutal terror attacks carried out by Hamas.

    More than 2,000 artists, actors and musicians in the UK, including Tilda Swinton, Steve Coogan, Charles Dance and Maxine Peake, signed the letter.

    They called for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza and for “our governments to end their military and political support for Israel’s actions”.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/18/coogan-swinton-letter-condemns-israel-war-crimes-not-hamas/

    That would be the same Maxine Peake who contrived to show how Israel was responsible for the death of George Floyd?
    This sounds so insane I had to Google it.

    Bloody hell

    https://www.jewishnews.co.uk/maxine-peake-responds-to-row-over-claim-linking-george-floyd-death-to-israel/
    This is why I have a strict "don't ask" policy when it comes to artists and their personal views. Peake is a brilliant actor. She's a mentalist politically, but I don't care what her views are so I can keep watching her stuff.
    I feel the same way about Eddie Izzard - one of the finest and most original of comedians of our age even though I disagree entirely with just about evrything in his politics.

    The same goes for the Anti-vaxxer Clapton. I don't think his music is any less superb because he is a lunatic.
    Up to a point. I don't really mind if my favourite famous people have political views that are different to mine. But when I start to get the impression that they would mind very much if I had political opinions different to theirs - which is the impression you get from the likes of Steve Coogan and Maxine Peake - the cheerful indifference gets harder to maintain. I mean, Alan Partidge is no less funny for its creator being a bit of a twat. But it's hard to maintain a neutral opinion of the fella.
    Alan Partridge is a nicer person than Steve Coogan.
    You're probably only saying that because Partridge is a Conservative. People tend to impute positive qualities to those who share their politics.
    Alan just wants to be liked and approved. He wants to fit in.

    That doesn’t make him bad.

    As for politics he was Tory in his early years when Peter Baynham and Armando Ianucci wrote for him. His politics rarely get mentioned these days.
    Alan would have definitly voted for Blair over Major.
    He is one of the few who would vote based on isams personality scores.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582

    My thanks to DA for mentioning Hunter Biden's naval career.

    For those who don't know the details:

    Biden's application for a position in the U.S. Navy Reserve was approved in May 2013.[138] At age 43, Biden was accepted as part of a program that allows a limited number of applicants with desirable skills to receive commissions and serve in staff positions.[139] Biden received an age-related waiver and a waiver for a past drug-related incident; he was sworn in as a direct commission officer by his father in a White House ceremony.[138][18]

    The urinalysis of a urine sample taken on his first weekend of reserve duty a few weeks later detected cocaine in his system.[18][139] He was discharged administratively in February 2014.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_Biden#Navy_Reserve

    Its clear that Hunter Biden has received special treatment in the past - whether it extended into other areas involving money grubbing and criminality I don't know.

    But the imagery of a serial felon receiving special treatment because of a family connection isn't good.

    The amazingly talented Hunter Biden seems to have developed a lucrative art career since his dad became President.

    His work appears to be reasonably pleasant decorative abstracts selling for approximately 100x what anyone else would charge.

    https://www.politico.com/newsletters/west-wing-playbook/2021/07/27/we-asked-art-critics-about-hunters-paintings-493751
    Which immediately makes one wonder who exactly is buying these pieces.

    Of course no-one has ever used art auctions to surrepticiously transfer money from one place to another.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931
    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Happy voting in Mid Beds and capital of Mercia Tamworth.

    Tamworth always makes me think of the Tamworth two.
    I hope you’re not telling porkies.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,073
    Pro_Rata said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Happy voting in Mid Beds and capital of Mercia Tamworth.

    Tamworth always makes me think of the Tamworth two.
    Makes me think of the Tamworth Manifesto. I'm not aware of ever being in Tamworth.
    The train folk on here will probably associate the Tamworth Triangle, the sad spate of people falling out of the doors moving trains in the Tamworth area:

    https://1991-new-world-order.fandom.com/wiki/The_'Tamworth_Triangle'
    If anybody is interested in the Cold War, the wider site is a fansite(!) of same.

    https://1991-new-world-order.fandom.com/wiki/1945-1991:_Cold_War_Wiki.
  • Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    An open letter signed by well-known actors condemning Israeli military actions has been criticised for failing to mention brutal terror attacks carried out by Hamas.

    More than 2,000 artists, actors and musicians in the UK, including Tilda Swinton, Steve Coogan, Charles Dance and Maxine Peake, signed the letter.

    They called for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza and for “our governments to end their military and political support for Israel’s actions”.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/18/coogan-swinton-letter-condemns-israel-war-crimes-not-hamas/

    That would be the same Maxine Peake who contrived to show how Israel was responsible for the death of George Floyd?
    This sounds so insane I had to Google it.

    Bloody hell

    https://www.jewishnews.co.uk/maxine-peake-responds-to-row-over-claim-linking-george-floyd-death-to-israel/
    This is why I have a strict "don't ask" policy when it comes to artists and their personal views. Peake is a brilliant actor. She's a mentalist politically, but I don't care what her views are so I can keep watching her stuff.
    I feel the same way about Eddie Izzard - one of the finest and most original of comedians of our age even though I disagree entirely with just about evrything in his politics.

    The same goes for the Anti-vaxxer Clapton. I don't think his music is any less superb because he is a lunatic.
    Up to a point. I don't really mind if my favourite famous people have political views that are different to mine. But when I start to get the impression that they would mind very much if I had political opinions different to theirs - which is the impression you get from the likes of Steve Coogan and Maxine Peake - the cheerful indifference gets harder to maintain. I mean, Alan Partidge is no less funny for its creator being a bit of a twat. But it's hard to maintain a neutral opinion of the fella.
    Alan Partridge is a nicer person than Steve Coogan.
    You're probably only saying that because Partridge is a Conservative. People tend to impute positive qualities to those who share their politics.
    No, I don't think that's right. (Though it's worth analysing). Partridge may be a Conservative, but I don't think I have a lot in common with Partridge politically. But I don't think Partridge would instinctively disapprove of me, whereas I think Coogan would. I think Partridge would also make an effort to keep the conversation light, which I'm not sure Coogan would.
    And I could also spend an hour in the pub with Saxondale, and I don't get the impression he's in any way conservative.

    EDIT: Also, I am a 40-something living in suburban Greater Manchester and working in the public sector. If I could only go to the pub with conservatives, I would never leave the house!
    I dont follow things in detail but why would Coogan disapprove of you? As far as I can tell his main bugbear seems to be hypocrisy of (some) social conservatives and the institutions that protect that.

    He is currently a Libdem, and had you down as a fairly liberal non establishment conservative?
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,376

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    An open letter signed by well-known actors condemning Israeli military actions has been criticised for failing to mention brutal terror attacks carried out by Hamas.

    More than 2,000 artists, actors and musicians in the UK, including Tilda Swinton, Steve Coogan, Charles Dance and Maxine Peake, signed the letter.

    They called for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza and for “our governments to end their military and political support for Israel’s actions”.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/18/coogan-swinton-letter-condemns-israel-war-crimes-not-hamas/

    That would be the same Maxine Peake who contrived to show how Israel was responsible for the death of George Floyd?
    This sounds so insane I had to Google it.

    Bloody hell

    https://www.jewishnews.co.uk/maxine-peake-responds-to-row-over-claim-linking-george-floyd-death-to-israel/
    This is why I have a strict "don't ask" policy when it comes to artists and their personal views. Peake is a brilliant actor. She's a mentalist politically, but I don't care what her views are so I can keep watching her stuff.
    I feel the same way about Eddie Izzard - one of the finest and most original of comedians of our age even though I disagree entirely with just about evrything in his politics.

    The same goes for the Anti-vaxxer Clapton. I don't think his music is any less superb because he is a lunatic.
    Up to a point. I don't really mind if my favourite famous people have political views that are different to mine. But when I start to get the impression that they would mind very much if I had political opinions different to theirs - which is the impression you get from the likes of Steve Coogan and Maxine Peake - the cheerful indifference gets harder to maintain. I mean, Alan Partidge is no less funny for its creator being a bit of a twat. But it's hard to maintain a neutral opinion of the fella.
    Alan Partridge is a nicer person than Steve Coogan.
    You're probably only saying that because Partridge is a Conservative. People tend to impute positive qualities to those who share their politics.
    Alan just wants to be liked and approved. He wants to fit in.

    That doesn’t make him bad.

    As for politics he was Tory in his early years when Peter Baynham and Armando Ianucci wrote for him. His politics rarely get mentioned these days.
    Alan would have definitly voted for Blair over Major. Would have voted for Cameron. Would have voted for Boris. Would now vote for Starmer.

    he's basically middle england in a nut shell. He's a Mondeo Man.
    In a nutshell, although his car of choice would be the Japanese Mercedes since Rover ceased trading.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    An open letter signed by well-known actors condemning Israeli military actions has been criticised for failing to mention brutal terror attacks carried out by Hamas.

    More than 2,000 artists, actors and musicians in the UK, including Tilda Swinton, Steve Coogan, Charles Dance and Maxine Peake, signed the letter.

    They called for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza and for “our governments to end their military and political support for Israel’s actions”.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/18/coogan-swinton-letter-condemns-israel-war-crimes-not-hamas/

    That would be the same Maxine Peake who contrived to show how Israel was responsible for the death of George Floyd?
    This sounds so insane I had to Google it.

    Bloody hell

    https://www.jewishnews.co.uk/maxine-peake-responds-to-row-over-claim-linking-george-floyd-death-to-israel/
    This is why I have a strict "don't ask" policy when it comes to artists and their personal views. Peake is a brilliant actor. She's a mentalist politically, but I don't care what her views are so I can keep watching her stuff.
    I feel the same way about Eddie Izzard - one of the finest and most original of comedians of our age even though I disagree entirely with just about evrything in his politics.

    The same goes for the Anti-vaxxer Clapton. I don't think his music is any less superb because he is a lunatic.
    Up to a point. I don't really mind if my favourite famous people have political views that are different to mine. But when I start to get the impression that they would mind very much if I had political opinions different to theirs - which is the impression you get from the likes of Steve Coogan and Maxine Peake - the cheerful indifference gets harder to maintain. I mean, Alan Partidge is no less funny for its creator being a bit of a twat. But it's hard to maintain a neutral opinion of the fella.
    Alan Partridge is a nicer person than Steve Coogan.
    You're probably only saying that because Partridge is a Conservative. People tend to impute positive qualities to those who share their politics.
    Alan just wants to be liked and approved. He wants to fit in.

    That doesn’t make him bad.

    As for politics he was Tory in his early years when Peter Baynham and Armando Ianucci wrote for him. His politics rarely get mentioned these days.
    Alan would have definitly voted for Blair over Major. Would have voted for Cameron. Would have voted for Boris. Would now vote for Starmer.

    he's basically middle england in a nut shell. He's a Mondeo Man.
    In a nutshell, although his car of choice would be the Japanese Mercedes since Rover ceased trading.
    I beleive in the movie he drove a lexus. But similar vibe.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,404
    viewcode said:

    In an interesting, albeit long-term problem, Spain is undergoing desertification. Given that Spain and Ukraine are two of the largest contributors of food to Continental Europe, this will be a problem in a few decade's time.


    watched the desertification clip and found very informative.

    Then followed on with the Egyptian NAC which was also excellent.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    MattW said:

    HYUFD said:

    Armed police confront 13 year old boy with water pistol

    "Boy with water pistol confronted by armed police - BBC News" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-67148208

    We need a photo of the device.

    We also need to recall that the police were there due to a report of a suspected firearm.

    Here was one which caused a previous "scandal" (below), linked from the BBC story, where a 12 year old was arrested for a 'weapon' that turned out to be a pellet gun.

    We need to remember that in the most year reported (21-22 iirc), there were FOUR incidents where police intentionally discharged firearms in the entire country.

    This part of the system seems to work to me.

    It’s one of those peculiar British quirks that works surprisingly well in practice. There are very few countries where police do not almost all routinely carry guns.

    It’s all very confusing to Americans! https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/why-london-won-t-arm-all-police-despite-severe-terror-n737551
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829

    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Happy voting in Mid Beds and capital of Mercia Tamworth.

    Tamworth always makes me think of the Tamworth two.
    I hope you’re not telling porkies.
    Seriously, a very tasty rare breed, as well as a good-looking one. V. popular in Iron Age theme parks etc. and much safer environmentally than pukka wild boar.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    edited October 2023
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    An open letter signed by well-known actors condemning Israeli military actions has been criticised for failing to mention brutal terror attacks carried out by Hamas.

    More than 2,000 artists, actors and musicians in the UK, including Tilda Swinton, Steve Coogan, Charles Dance and Maxine Peake, signed the letter.

    They called for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza and for “our governments to end their military and political support for Israel’s actions”.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/18/coogan-swinton-letter-condemns-israel-war-crimes-not-hamas/

    That would be the same Maxine Peake who contrived to show how Israel was responsible for the death of George Floyd?
    This sounds so insane I had to Google it.

    Bloody hell

    https://www.jewishnews.co.uk/maxine-peake-responds-to-row-over-claim-linking-george-floyd-death-to-israel/
    This is why I have a strict "don't ask" policy when it comes to artists and their personal views. Peake is a brilliant actor. She's a mentalist politically, but I don't care what her views are so I can keep watching her stuff.
    I feel the same way about Eddie Izzard - one of the finest and most original of comedians of our age even though I disagree entirely with just about evrything in his politics.

    The same goes for the Anti-vaxxer Clapton. I don't think his music is any less superb because he is a lunatic.
    Up to a point. I don't really mind if my favourite famous people have political views that are different to mine. But when I start to get the impression that they would mind very much if I had political opinions different to theirs - which is the impression you get from the likes of Steve Coogan and Maxine Peake - the cheerful indifference gets harder to maintain. I mean, Alan Partidge is no less funny for its creator being a bit of a twat. But it's hard to maintain a neutral opinion of the fella.
    This is in practice a bigger issue for right wingers like you because famous entertainers, actors, song and dance merchants, writers, artistic and cultural big bananas in general, skew left. If you were to 'cancel' them on that basis you'd be left with meagre rations indeed. So although I agree and applaud your tolerant take on it (and I do agree and applaud it) I also have to note this self-interest angle.
    That's true. But there's left wingers and left wingers. I've just finished Dave Grohl's autobiography. He makes no secret of his strongly felt Democrat leanings. But he also discusses the more important need to be able to get on with people whatever their views, and laments that America is currently unable to do this. I'd say that's the more important factor.
    Yep, and to widen it a bit, there's political views and there's political views.

    Eg, hypothetically imagine a denizen of rock who's very strongly of the opinion that we're well beyond what the modern state ought to be raising in tax and so favours significant cuts in public expenditure - except for the armed forces because defence of the realm must be the government's top priority.

    I'm just giving that a roll of the eyes and it's not impacting one iota on my enjoyment of his tunes (assuming I like them to start with).

    However if his right wingery extends to 'Enoch was a god' territory, if he's giving it the old 'multiculturalism doesn't work' cypher for being a racist, then that's materially different. That's more troubling. I have a decision to make there.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,376

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    An open letter signed by well-known actors condemning Israeli military actions has been criticised for failing to mention brutal terror attacks carried out by Hamas.

    More than 2,000 artists, actors and musicians in the UK, including Tilda Swinton, Steve Coogan, Charles Dance and Maxine Peake, signed the letter.

    They called for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza and for “our governments to end their military and political support for Israel’s actions”.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/18/coogan-swinton-letter-condemns-israel-war-crimes-not-hamas/

    That would be the same Maxine Peake who contrived to show how Israel was responsible for the death of George Floyd?
    This sounds so insane I had to Google it.

    Bloody hell

    https://www.jewishnews.co.uk/maxine-peake-responds-to-row-over-claim-linking-george-floyd-death-to-israel/
    This is why I have a strict "don't ask" policy when it comes to artists and their personal views. Peake is a brilliant actor. She's a mentalist politically, but I don't care what her views are so I can keep watching her stuff.
    I feel the same way about Eddie Izzard - one of the finest and most original of comedians of our age even though I disagree entirely with just about evrything in his politics.

    The same goes for the Anti-vaxxer Clapton. I don't think his music is any less superb because he is a lunatic.
    Up to a point. I don't really mind if my favourite famous people have political views that are different to mine. But when I start to get the impression that they would mind very much if I had political opinions different to theirs - which is the impression you get from the likes of Steve Coogan and Maxine Peake - the cheerful indifference gets harder to maintain. I mean, Alan Partidge is no less funny for its creator being a bit of a twat. But it's hard to maintain a neutral opinion of the fella.
    Alan Partridge is a nicer person than Steve Coogan.
    You're probably only saying that because Partridge is a Conservative. People tend to impute positive qualities to those who share their politics.
    Alan just wants to be liked and approved. He wants to fit in.

    That doesn’t make him bad.

    As for politics he was Tory in his early years when Peter Baynham and Armando Ianucci wrote for him. His politics rarely get mentioned these days.
    Alan would have definitly voted for Blair over Major. Would have voted for Cameron. Would have voted for Boris. Would now vote for Starmer.

    he's basically middle england in a nut shell. He's a Mondeo Man.
    In a nutshell, although his car of choice would be the Japanese Mercedes since Rover ceased trading.
    I beleive in the movie he drove a lexus. But similar vibe.
    The singular of Lexi, which he calls the Japanese Mercedes 😀
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,145
    edited October 2023
    Sandpit said:

    My thanks to DA for mentioning Hunter Biden's naval career.

    For those who don't know the details:

    Biden's application for a position in the U.S. Navy Reserve was approved in May 2013.[138] At age 43, Biden was accepted as part of a program that allows a limited number of applicants with desirable skills to receive commissions and serve in staff positions.[139] Biden received an age-related waiver and a waiver for a past drug-related incident; he was sworn in as a direct commission officer by his father in a White House ceremony.[138][18]

    The urinalysis of a urine sample taken on his first weekend of reserve duty a few weeks later detected cocaine in his system.[18][139] He was discharged administratively in February 2014.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_Biden#Navy_Reserve

    Its clear that Hunter Biden has received special treatment in the past - whether it extended into other areas involving money grubbing and criminality I don't know.

    But the imagery of a serial felon receiving special treatment because of a family connection isn't good.

    The amazingly talented Hunter Biden seems to have developed a lucrative art career since his dad became President.

    His work appears to be reasonably pleasant decorative abstracts selling for approximately 100x what anyone else would charge.

    https://www.politico.com/newsletters/west-wing-playbook/2021/07/27/we-asked-art-critics-about-hunters-paintings-493751
    Which immediately makes one wonder who exactly is buying these pieces.

    Of course no-one has ever used art auctions to surrepticiously transfer money from one place to another.
    His gallery are strong on the Artistic Bollocks:

    "A lawyer by profession, Hunter Biden now devotes his energies to the creative arts, bringing innumerable experiences to bear. The results are powerful and impactful paintings ranging from photogenic to mixed media to the abstract. His chosen substrates are canvas, YUPO paper, wood, and metal on which he affixes oil, acrylic, ink along with the written word; all of which creates a unique experience that has become his signature."

    https://bergesgallery.com/our-artists/hunter-biden

    eg "Malibu"

  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    An open letter signed by well-known actors condemning Israeli military actions has been criticised for failing to mention brutal terror attacks carried out by Hamas.

    More than 2,000 artists, actors and musicians in the UK, including Tilda Swinton, Steve Coogan, Charles Dance and Maxine Peake, signed the letter.

    They called for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza and for “our governments to end their military and political support for Israel’s actions”.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/18/coogan-swinton-letter-condemns-israel-war-crimes-not-hamas/

    That would be the same Maxine Peake who contrived to show how Israel was responsible for the death of George Floyd?
    This sounds so insane I had to Google it.

    Bloody hell

    https://www.jewishnews.co.uk/maxine-peake-responds-to-row-over-claim-linking-george-floyd-death-to-israel/
    This is why I have a strict "don't ask" policy when it comes to artists and their personal views. Peake is a brilliant actor. She's a mentalist politically, but I don't care what her views are so I can keep watching her stuff.
    I feel the same way about Eddie Izzard - one of the finest and most original of comedians of our age even though I disagree entirely with just about evrything in his politics.

    The same goes for the Anti-vaxxer Clapton. I don't think his music is any less superb because he is a lunatic.
    Up to a point. I don't really mind if my favourite famous people have political views that are different to mine. But when I start to get the impression that they would mind very much if I had political opinions different to theirs - which is the impression you get from the likes of Steve Coogan and Maxine Peake - the cheerful indifference gets harder to maintain. I mean, Alan Partidge is no less funny for its creator being a bit of a twat. But it's hard to maintain a neutral opinion of the fella.
    Alan Partridge is a nicer person than Steve Coogan.
    You're probably only saying that because Partridge is a Conservative. People tend to impute positive qualities to those who share their politics.
    Alan just wants to be liked and approved. He wants to fit in.

    That doesn’t make him bad.

    As for politics he was Tory in his early years when Peter Baynham and Armando Ianucci wrote for him. His politics rarely get mentioned these days.
    Alan would have definitly voted for Blair over Major. Would have voted for Cameron. Would have voted for Boris. Would now vote for Starmer.

    he's basically middle england in a nut shell. He's a Mondeo Man.
    In a nutshell, although his car of choice would be the Japanese Mercedes since Rover ceased trading.
    I beleive in the movie he drove a lexus. But similar vibe.
    The singular of Lexi, which he calls the Japanese Mercedes 😀
    You are a true Partridge Scholar sir...
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    An open letter signed by well-known actors condemning Israeli military actions has been criticised for failing to mention brutal terror attacks carried out by Hamas.

    More than 2,000 artists, actors and musicians in the UK, including Tilda Swinton, Steve Coogan, Charles Dance and Maxine Peake, signed the letter.

    They called for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza and for “our governments to end their military and political support for Israel’s actions”.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/18/coogan-swinton-letter-condemns-israel-war-crimes-not-hamas/

    That would be the same Maxine Peake who contrived to show how Israel was responsible for the death of George Floyd?
    This sounds so insane I had to Google it.

    Bloody hell

    https://www.jewishnews.co.uk/maxine-peake-responds-to-row-over-claim-linking-george-floyd-death-to-israel/
    This is why I have a strict "don't ask" policy when it comes to artists and their personal views. Peake is a brilliant actor. She's a mentalist politically, but I don't care what her views are so I can keep watching her stuff.
    I feel the same way about Eddie Izzard - one of the finest and most original of comedians of our age even though I disagree entirely with just about evrything in his politics.

    The same goes for the Anti-vaxxer Clapton. I don't think his music is any less superb because he is a lunatic.
    Up to a point. I don't really mind if my favourite famous people have political views that are different to mine. But when I start to get the impression that they would mind very much if I had political opinions different to theirs - which is the impression you get from the likes of Steve Coogan and Maxine Peake - the cheerful indifference gets harder to maintain. I mean, Alan Partidge is no less funny for its creator being a bit of a twat. But it's hard to maintain a neutral opinion of the fella.
    Alan Partridge is a nicer person than Steve Coogan.
    You're probably only saying that because Partridge is a Conservative. People tend to impute positive qualities to those who share their politics.
    No, I don't think that's right. (Though it's worth analysing). Partridge may be a Conservative, but I don't think I have a lot in common with Partridge politically. But I don't think Partridge would instinctively disapprove of me, whereas I think Coogan would. I think Partridge would also make an effort to keep the conversation light, which I'm not sure Coogan would.
    And I could also spend an hour in the pub with Saxondale, and I don't get the impression he's in any way conservative.

    EDIT: Also, I am a 40-something living in suburban Greater Manchester and working in the public sector. If I could only go to the pub with conservatives, I would never leave the house!
    I dont follow things in detail but why would Coogan disapprove of you? As far as I can tell his main bugbear seems to be hypocrisy of (some) social conservatives and the institutions that protect that.

    He is currently a Libdem, and had you down as a fairly liberal non establishment conservative?
    The impression that I get whenever the real-world Coogan is spotted (like in this letter) is of someone who isn't particularly tolerant of and is a bit snide about views which differ from his own.
    But I do admit that this is probably a very partial impression!
    And I'll take 'fairly liberal non establishment conservative'!
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813
    Just listened to Sunak speaking in Israel. Again I am reminded how uncanny valley a lot of his presentation is. Superficially it is good. It’s got the Blair mannerisms and tics. He should be coming across as charismatic.

    But something just doesn’t click, and it makes him sound stilted and just ‘off’. I have been trying for some time to work out why this is but I haven’t been able to put my finger on it. I think my only suggestion is that Blair and Cameron managed to do insincerity whilst appearing sincere, whereas Rishi just looks insincere.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    My thanks to DA for mentioning Hunter Biden's naval career.

    For those who don't know the details:

    Biden's application for a position in the U.S. Navy Reserve was approved in May 2013.[138] At age 43, Biden was accepted as part of a program that allows a limited number of applicants with desirable skills to receive commissions and serve in staff positions.[139] Biden received an age-related waiver and a waiver for a past drug-related incident; he was sworn in as a direct commission officer by his father in a White House ceremony.[138][18]

    The urinalysis of a urine sample taken on his first weekend of reserve duty a few weeks later detected cocaine in his system.[18][139] He was discharged administratively in February 2014.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_Biden#Navy_Reserve

    Its clear that Hunter Biden has received special treatment in the past - whether it extended into other areas involving money grubbing and criminality I don't know.

    But the imagery of a serial felon receiving special treatment because of a family connection isn't good.

    The amazingly talented Hunter Biden seems to have developed a lucrative art career since his dad became President.

    His work appears to be reasonably pleasant decorative abstracts selling for approximately 100x what anyone else would charge.

    https://www.politico.com/newsletters/west-wing-playbook/2021/07/27/we-asked-art-critics-about-hunters-paintings-493751
    Which immediately makes one wonder who exactly is buying these pieces.

    Of course no-one has ever used art auctions to surrepticiously transfer money from one place to another.
    His gallery are strong on the Artistic Bollocks:

    "A lawyer by profession, Hunter Biden now devotes his energies to the creative arts, bringing innumerable experiences to bear. The results are powerful and impactful paintings ranging from photogenic to mixed media to the abstract. His chosen substrates are canvas, YUPO paper, wood, and metal on which he affixes oil, acrylic, ink along with the written word; all of which creates a unique experience that has become his signature."

    https://bergesgallery.com/our-artists/hunter-biden

    eg "Malibu"

    I could do better than that, or could ask an AI to do something equally abstract.

    I’m sure that half the value in these paintings comes from being able to write out 100 words of total bollocks with a straight face!
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,145
    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    HYUFD said:

    Armed police confront 13 year old boy with water pistol

    "Boy with water pistol confronted by armed police - BBC News" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-67148208

    We need a photo of the device.

    We also need to recall that the police were there due to a report of a suspected firearm.

    Here was one which caused a previous "scandal" (below), linked from the BBC story, where a 12 year old was arrested for a 'weapon' that turned out to be a pellet gun.

    We need to remember that in the most year reported (21-22 iirc), there were FOUR incidents where police intentionally discharged firearms in the entire country.

    This part of the system seems to work to me.

    It’s one of those peculiar British quirks that works surprisingly well in practice. There are very few countries where police do not almost all routinely carry guns.

    It’s all very confusing to Americans! https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/why-london-won-t-arm-all-police-despite-severe-terror-n737551
    There are about 15 countries with unarmed police forces; most are micro states.

    We are by far the largest. The other major (ish) ones afaics are Ireland, Norway and New Zealand.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    theProle said:

    viewcode said:

    Nigelb said:

    The latest in the Britishvolt saga.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67149907

    It's frankly pathetic that the government has allowed what is a significant national energy infrastructure site to fall into the hands of successive chancers with no serious plans.

    Nationalise it. In a world full of complex problems, it is nice to have one that is solved quickly.
    If they did that, it would be British Leyland Mk2. Buying a dubious brand, a few aces of mud and some grand intentions seem like a particularly poor waste of taxpayers money.
    At least British Leyland started with the advantage of actually having a load of car plants building cars.

    If Toyota's recent claims about solid state batteries are true, the current government push for cars built on wet batteries is going to look as stupid and misguided as the millions wasted on replacing incandescent bulbs with compact fluorescents just before LED technology matured.

    Governments everywhere have lots of form for picking poor technologies and forcing them on everyone at vast expense.
    Toyotas own timeline says that the 600 mile, 10 min charging, solid state battery is years away. It’s worth noting that the predictions for the current battery chemistries has similar performance at that date.

    That’s the thing about competing technologies - and why they are a good idea.

    Further, the government isn’t mandating cell chemistries. As with other governments, they are promoting BEVs in the general sense.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    An open letter signed by well-known actors condemning Israeli military actions has been criticised for failing to mention brutal terror attacks carried out by Hamas.

    More than 2,000 artists, actors and musicians in the UK, including Tilda Swinton, Steve Coogan, Charles Dance and Maxine Peake, signed the letter.

    They called for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza and for “our governments to end their military and political support for Israel’s actions”.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/18/coogan-swinton-letter-condemns-israel-war-crimes-not-hamas/

    That would be the same Maxine Peake who contrived to show how Israel was responsible for the death of George Floyd?
    This sounds so insane I had to Google it.

    Bloody hell

    https://www.jewishnews.co.uk/maxine-peake-responds-to-row-over-claim-linking-george-floyd-death-to-israel/
    This is why I have a strict "don't ask" policy when it comes to artists and their personal views. Peake is a brilliant actor. She's a mentalist politically, but I don't care what her views are so I can keep watching her stuff.
    I feel the same way about Eddie Izzard - one of the finest and most original of comedians of our age even though I disagree entirely with just about evrything in his politics.

    The same goes for the Anti-vaxxer Clapton. I don't think his music is any less superb because he is a lunatic.
    Up to a point. I don't really mind if my favourite famous people have political views that are different to mine. But when I start to get the impression that they would mind very much if I had political opinions different to theirs - which is the impression you get from the likes of Steve Coogan and Maxine Peake - the cheerful indifference gets harder to maintain. I mean, Alan Partidge is no less funny for its creator being a bit of a twat. But it's hard to maintain a neutral opinion of the fella.
    Alan Partridge is a nicer person than Steve Coogan.
    You're probably only saying that because Partridge is a Conservative. People tend to impute positive qualities to those who share their politics.
    Alan just wants to be liked and approved. He wants to fit in.

    That doesn’t make him bad.

    As for politics he was Tory in his early years when Peter Baynham and Armando Ianucci wrote for him. His politics rarely get mentioned these days.
    Alan would have definitly voted for Blair over Major. Would have voted for Cameron. Would have voted for Boris. Would now vote for Starmer.

    he's basically middle england in a nut shell. He's a Mondeo Man.
    In a nutshell, although his car of choice would be the Japanese Mercedes since Rover ceased trading.
    I beleive in the movie he drove a lexus. But similar vibe.
    Coogan chose a Lexus because he liked the way Partridge pronounced the word.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    An open letter signed by well-known actors condemning Israeli military actions has been criticised for failing to mention brutal terror attacks carried out by Hamas.

    More than 2,000 artists, actors and musicians in the UK, including Tilda Swinton, Steve Coogan, Charles Dance and Maxine Peake, signed the letter.

    They called for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza and for “our governments to end their military and political support for Israel’s actions”.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/18/coogan-swinton-letter-condemns-israel-war-crimes-not-hamas/

    That would be the same Maxine Peake who contrived to show how Israel was responsible for the death of George Floyd?
    This sounds so insane I had to Google it.

    Bloody hell

    https://www.jewishnews.co.uk/maxine-peake-responds-to-row-over-claim-linking-george-floyd-death-to-israel/
    This is why I have a strict "don't ask" policy when it comes to artists and their personal views. Peake is a brilliant actor. She's a mentalist politically, but I don't care what her views are so I can keep watching her stuff.
    I feel the same way about Eddie Izzard - one of the finest and most original of comedians of our age even though I disagree entirely with just about evrything in his politics.

    The same goes for the Anti-vaxxer Clapton. I don't think his music is any less superb because he is a lunatic.
    Up to a point. I don't really mind if my favourite famous people have political views that are different to mine. But when I start to get the impression that they would mind very much if I had political opinions different to theirs - which is the impression you get from the likes of Steve Coogan and Maxine Peake - the cheerful indifference gets harder to maintain. I mean, Alan Partidge is no less funny for its creator being a bit of a twat. But it's hard to maintain a neutral opinion of the fella.
    This is in practice a bigger issue for right wingers like you because famous entertainers, actors, song and dance merchants, writers, artistic and cultural big bananas in general, skew left. If you were to 'cancel' them on that basis you'd be left with meagre rations indeed. So although I agree and applaud your tolerant take on it (and I do agree and applaud it) I also have to note this self-interest angle.
    That's true. But there's left wingers and left wingers. I've just finished Dave Grohl's autobiography. He makes no secret of his strongly felt Democrat leanings. But he also discusses the more important need to be able to get on with people whatever their views, and laments that America is currently unable to do this. I'd say that's the more important factor.
    Yep, and to widen it a bit, there's political views and there's political views.

    Eg, hypothetically imagine a denizen of rock who's very strongly of the opinion that we're well beyond what the modern state ought to be raising in tax and so favours significant cuts in public expenditure - except for the armed forces because defence of the realm must be the government's top priority.

    I'm just giving that a roll of the eyes and it's not impacting one iota on my enjoyment of his tunes (assuming I like them to start with).

    However if his right wingery extends to 'Enoch was a god' territory, if he's giving it the old 'multiculturalism doesn't work' cypher for being a racist, then that's materially different. That's more troubling. I have a decision to make there.
    And in precisely that situation, what would your decision be.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,993
    edited October 2023

    MattW said:

    For the PB Consumer Advice Department.

    I see that NetFlix are putting up prices again.

    Is there a killer reason I have not noticed for keeping the subscription open?

    ( I note that I haven't used it for quite some time.)

    Compared to Amazon there don't seem to be many bundled benefits.

    Sex Education & Lucifer.

    Stranger Things.

    FYI - I'm getting the top Netflix package for £7 a month via Sky.
    The new Fall of the House of Usher is an interesting oddity - trying to merge Succession with American Horror Story, using Poe's stories as inspiration.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,779
    Cookie said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    An open letter signed by well-known actors condemning Israeli military actions has been criticised for failing to mention brutal terror attacks carried out by Hamas.

    More than 2,000 artists, actors and musicians in the UK, including Tilda Swinton, Steve Coogan, Charles Dance and Maxine Peake, signed the letter.

    They called for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza and for “our governments to end their military and political support for Israel’s actions”.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/18/coogan-swinton-letter-condemns-israel-war-crimes-not-hamas/

    That would be the same Maxine Peake who contrived to show how Israel was responsible for the death of George Floyd?
    This sounds so insane I had to Google it.

    Bloody hell

    https://www.jewishnews.co.uk/maxine-peake-responds-to-row-over-claim-linking-george-floyd-death-to-israel/
    This is why I have a strict "don't ask" policy when it comes to artists and their personal views. Peake is a brilliant actor. She's a mentalist politically, but I don't care what her views are so I can keep watching her stuff.
    I feel the same way about Eddie Izzard - one of the finest and most original of comedians of our age even though I disagree entirely with just about evrything in his politics.

    The same goes for the Anti-vaxxer Clapton. I don't think his music is any less superb because he is a lunatic.
    Up to a point. I don't really mind if my favourite famous people have political views that are different to mine. But when I start to get the impression that they would mind very much if I had political opinions different to theirs - which is the impression you get from the likes of Steve Coogan and Maxine Peake - the cheerful indifference gets harder to maintain. I mean, Alan Partidge is no less funny for its creator being a bit of a twat. But it's hard to maintain a neutral opinion of the fella.
    Alan Partridge is a nicer person than Steve Coogan.
    Yes, true. I would rather spend an hour in a pub with Alan than with Steve.
    I've met Steve Coogan and he seemed alright!
  • Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Happy voting in Mid Beds and capital of Mercia Tamworth.

    Tamworth always makes me think of the Tamworth two.
    Makes me think of the Tamworth Manifesto. I'm not aware of ever being in Tamworth.
    There has been a faintly "prominent Victorian PMs" theme to several by-elections in this Parliament. Tamworth was Peel's constituency, Tiverton was Palmerston's, Chesham & Amersham would've been part of Disraeli's Buckinghamshire seat, and I think Gladstone's seat would've covered Stretford & Urmston when he was MP for South Lancashire (not totally sure about that though).
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792
    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    HYUFD said:

    Armed police confront 13 year old boy with water pistol

    "Boy with water pistol confronted by armed police - BBC News" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-67148208

    We need a photo of the device.

    We also need to recall that the police were there due to a report of a suspected firearm.

    Here was one which caused a previous "scandal" (below), linked from the BBC story, where a 12 year old was arrested for a 'weapon' that turned out to be a pellet gun.

    We need to remember that in the most year reported (21-22 iirc), there were FOUR incidents where police intentionally discharged firearms in the entire country.

    This part of the system seems to work to me.

    It’s one of those peculiar British quirks that works surprisingly well in practice. There are very few countries where police do not almost all routinely carry guns.

    It’s all very confusing to Americans! https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/why-london-won-t-arm-all-police-despite-severe-terror-n737551
    This is a really interesting article. Worth reading just to realise how lucky we are. I liked this bit:

    "In the year up to March 2016, police in England and Wales only fired seven bullets. (Although these government figures do not include accidental shots, shooting out tires, or killing dangerous or injured animals.)"

    - as if to say, of course, shooting out tires is a regular part of police practice.

    I expect if you add in accidental shots and shooting out tires the total won't get up to a great deal more than 7.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    HYUFD said:

    Armed police confront 13 year old boy with water pistol

    "Boy with water pistol confronted by armed police - BBC News" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-67148208

    We need a photo of the device.

    We also need to recall that the police were there due to a report of a suspected firearm.

    Here was one which caused a previous "scandal" (below), linked from the BBC story, where a 12 year old was arrested for a 'weapon' that turned out to be a pellet gun.

    We need to remember that in the most year reported (21-22 iirc), there were FOUR incidents where police intentionally discharged firearms in the entire country.

    This part of the system seems to work to me.

    It’s one of those peculiar British quirks that works surprisingly well in practice. There are very few countries where police do not almost all routinely carry guns.

    It’s all very confusing to Americans! https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/why-london-won-t-arm-all-police-despite-severe-terror-n737551
    Meanwhile their passionate attachment to the 2nd Amendment is very confusing to the rest of us.
This discussion has been closed.