I don’t know a single person who is anti -Semitic but apparently by gobby in here if you’re pro Palestinian you must be a Jew hater .
The debate becomes very polarized because some can’t accept that you can just simply want a two state solution where both Jews and Palestinians can live in peace .
The whole cycle of violence is so depressing .
How many fewer wars and conflicts would we have if we could abolish religion?
True . Religion has a lot to answer for . If the whole world followed humanism we’d be in a much better place .
Atheists like Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot don't have a great track record either. Wasn't Hitler an Athiest too?
But not humanists
Anyone who worships humans must be struggling this week.
P.S I never have understood the US evangelical love for Israel since Jews, by definition, deny that Christ was the Messiah or rose again.
It cropped up a few decades ago. The theory is that Israel has to exist so that the final battle on the plains of Meggido can take place, with the associated Second Coming and Rapture etc. No Jews, no Israel, no final battle and the evangelicals don't get the Armageddon of their choice. Somebody will probably link to a better source than my swiss-cheese brain.
But that is surely twaddle
Have no PB-ers ever traveled around Trump's America? I have. They are all interesting people. The religious and the irreligious, the black white brown and tartan, the fentanyl takers and the celeb Tennessee chefs
They support Trump - in my experience - out of desperation. They see the Woke Democrats as a threat to the essence of America (and I agree). A few really adore Trump but most don't, he is viewed as a necessary bulwark, the one guy who might beat the hated libtards in DC
I have never met an evanglelical American who supports Trump for the reasons cited
I don’t know a single person who is anti -Semitic but apparently by gobby in here if you’re pro Palestinian you must be a Jew hater .
The debate becomes very polarized because some can’t accept that you can just simply want a two state solution where both Jews and Palestinians can live in peace .
The whole cycle of violence is so depressing .
How many fewer wars and conflicts would we have if we could abolish religion?
True . Religion has a lot to answer for . If the whole world followed humanism we’d be in a much better place .
Atheists like Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot don't have a great track record either. Wasn't Hitler an Athiest too?
He was most likely a deist rather than an atheist.
P.S I never have understood the US evangelical love for Israel since Jews, by definition, deny that Christ was the Messiah or rose again.
It cropped up a few decades ago. The theory is that Israel has to exist so that the final battle on the plains of Meggido can take place, with the associated Second Coming and Rapture etc. No Jews, no Israel, no final battle and the evangelicals don't get the Armageddon of their choice. Somebody will probably link to a better source than my swiss-cheese brain.
But that is surely twaddle
Have no PB-ers ever traveled around Trump's America? I have. They are all interesting people. The religious and the irreligious, the black white brown and tartan, the fentanyl takers and the celeb Tennessee chefs
They support Trump - in my experience - out of desperation. They see the Woke Democrats as a threat to the essence of America (and I agree). A few really adore Trump but most don't, he is viewed as a necessary bulwark, the one guy who might beat the hated libtards in DC
I have never met an evanglelical American who supports Trump for the reasons cited
No, the Evangelists support Israel for this reason, not Trump.
P.S I never have understood the US evangelical love for Israel since Jews, by definition, deny that Christ was the Messiah or rose again.
It cropped up a few decades ago. The theory is that Israel has to exist so that the final battle on the plains of Meggido can take place, with the associated Second Coming and Rapture etc. No Jews, no Israel, no final battle and the evangelicals don't get the Armageddon of their choice. Somebody will probably link to a better source than my swiss-cheese brain.
And they wrote the Bible, which is full of handy tips for Evangelists.
A lot less of the liberal crap in the old bit. It was the result of having multiple pastors tell me, essentially, the same story about quoting the Sermon on the Mount, parenthetically, in their preaching — "turn the other cheek" — [and] to have someone come up after to say, "Where did you get those liberal talking points?" And what was alarming to me is that in most of these scenarios, when the pastor would say, "I'm literally quoting Jesus Christ," the response would not be, "I apologize." The response would be, "Yes, but that doesn't work anymore. That's weak." And when we get to the point where the teachings of Jesus himself are seen as subversive to us, then we're in a crisis. https://www.npr.org/2023/08/08/1192663920/southern-baptist-convention-donald-trump-christianity
I don’t know a single person who is anti -Semitic but apparently by gobby in here if you’re pro Palestinian you must be a Jew hater .
The debate becomes very polarized because some can’t accept that you can just simply want a two state solution where both Jews and Palestinians can live in peace .
The whole cycle of violence is so depressing .
How many fewer wars and conflicts would we have if we could abolish religion?
True . Religion has a lot to answer for . If the whole world followed humanism we’d be in a much better place .
Atheists like Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot don't have a great track record either. Wasn't Hitler an Athiest too?
He was most likely a deist rather than an atheist.
German Christians were a thing, though I don't know how far that was an adaptatioon or rather Coordination/Gleischschaltung to the NSDAP rather than anything else.
The Wehrmacht Heer and Kriegmarine did have Gott mit uns on their belt buckles.
I don’t know a single person who is anti -Semitic but apparently by gobby in here if you’re pro Palestinian you must be a Jew hater .
The debate becomes very polarized because some can’t accept that you can just simply want a two state solution where both Jews and Palestinians can live in peace .
The whole cycle of violence is so depressing .
How many fewer wars and conflicts would we have if we could abolish religion?
True . Religion has a lot to answer for . If the whole world followed humanism we’d be in a much better place .
Atheists like Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot don't have a great track record either. Wasn't Hitler an Athiest too?
But not humanists
Anyone who worships humans must be struggling this week.
I said last week I am in fact a Trainist.
A follower of the Apostle Thomas the Tank engine? Or Apostle James the red engine?
I don’t know a single person who is anti -Semitic but apparently by gobby in here if you’re pro Palestinian you must be a Jew hater .
The debate becomes very polarized because some can’t accept that you can just simply want a two state solution where both Jews and Palestinians can live in peace .
The whole cycle of violence is so depressing .
How many fewer wars and conflicts would we have if we could abolish religion?
True . Religion has a lot to answer for . If the whole world followed humanism we’d be in a much better place .
Atheists like Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot don't have a great track record either. Wasn't Hitler an Athiest too?
But not humanists
Anyone who worships humans must be struggling this week.
Mid Bedfordshire looks like the first genuinely 3 way by election for some time. Any of the Tories, Labour or LDs could win it
My gut is saying the LDs will have lost momentum, its all about Labour right now.
Batley was three way thanks to Galloway?
What about the formidable LD by-election machine that was able to come from third place in North Shropshire and Tiverton & Honiton?
I think the Lib Dems can only win from third place if Labour lets them. Labour haven't let them in mid Beds.
Lib Dems were quick off the mark and odds on favourite to start with, but once Labour put the effort in it was clear to me that this was a hard slog for the Lib Dems.
I hope the Lib Dems win but if they don't, and I don't think they will, I hope the Tories win. Not out of spite but to show Labour they can't just barge in without risk of giving it to the Tories.
In practice, in the GE, there will be very few mid Beds. But there will be some like Wimbledon, where Lib Dems came second last time that Labour might be tempted to have a go. A loss to the Tories in mid Beds might deter them.
I don’t know a single person who is anti -Semitic but apparently by gobby in here if you’re pro Palestinian you must be a Jew hater .
The debate becomes very polarized because some can’t accept that you can just simply want a two state solution where both Jews and Palestinians can live in peace .
The whole cycle of violence is so depressing .
How many fewer wars and conflicts would we have if we could abolish religion?
True . Religion has a lot to answer for . If the whole world followed humanism we’d be in a much better place .
Atheists like Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot don't have a great track record either. Wasn't Hitler an Athiest too?
But not humanists
Anyone who worships humans must be struggling this week.
I said last week I am in fact a Trainist.
Now you're talking. Let's have a thread on the life and work of George Jackson Churchward.
From Wiki:
On 19 December 1933, now with poor eyesight and hard of hearing, he was inspecting a defectively-bedded sleeper on the down through line, when he was struck and killed by a Paddington to Fishguard express, pulled by No. 4085 Berkeley Castle.
I don’t know a single person who is anti -Semitic but apparently by gobby in here if you’re pro Palestinian you must be a Jew hater .
The debate becomes very polarized because some can’t accept that you can just simply want a two state solution where both Jews and Palestinians can live in peace .
The whole cycle of violence is so depressing .
How many fewer wars and conflicts would we have if we could abolish religion?
True . Religion has a lot to answer for . If the whole world followed humanism we’d be in a much better place .
Atheists like Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot don't have a great track record either. Wasn't Hitler an Athiest too?
He was most likely a deist rather than an atheist.
German Christians were a thing, though I don't know how far that was an adaptatioon or rather Coordination/Gleischschaltung to the NSDAP rather than anything else.
The Wehrmacht Heer and Kriegmarine did have Gott mit uns on their belt buckles.
Though the Nazis were suspicious of both Lutheren and Catholic Churches.
A Hamas official, on record, says that none of atrocities committed at the weekend were done by Hamas forces. All done by 'other Gazans' apparently....
Strange that, as Hamas seemed well pleased with it all at the weekend.
I don’t know a single person who is anti -Semitic but apparently by gobby in here if you’re pro Palestinian you must be a Jew hater .
The debate becomes very polarized because some can’t accept that you can just simply want a two state solution where both Jews and Palestinians can live in peace .
The whole cycle of violence is so depressing .
How many fewer wars and conflicts would we have if we could abolish religion?
True . Religion has a lot to answer for . If the whole world followed humanism we’d be in a much better place .
Atheists like Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot don't have a great track record either. Wasn't Hitler an Athiest too?
But not humanists
Anyone who worships humans must be struggling this week.
I said last week I am in fact a Trainist.
Now you're talking. Let's have a thread on the life and work of George Jackson Churchward.
From Wiki:
On 19 December 1933, now with poor eyesight and hard of hearing, he was inspecting a defectively-bedded sleeper on the down through line, when he was struck and killed by a Paddington to Fishguard express, pulled by No. 4085 Berkeley Castle.
A Hamas official, on record, says that none of atrocities committed at the weekend were done by Hamas forces. All done by 'other Gazans' apparently....
Strange that, as Hamas seemed well pleased with it all at the weekend.
It's a bit like the neo-nazis torn between reveling in the Holocaust or denying it, or the Islamists caught between applauding 9/11 and those blaming the Jews for it.
Mid Bedfordshire looks like the first genuinely 3 way by election for some time. Any of the Tories, Labour or LDs could win it
My gut is saying the LDs will have lost momentum, its all about Labour right now.
Batley was three way thanks to Galloway?
What about the formidable LD by-election machine that was able to come from third place in North Shropshire and Tiverton & Honiton?
A smart cookie writes:
Here's a list of all the LD by-election gains from Con since 1992. Two things are striking.
1. In most instances, the Lab vote was squeezed to a quarter or less of its former size; 2. Those two exceptions in 1994-5, when Lab did fight hard and the Tories ended up third.
Mid Beds isn't mega posh like Chesham & Amersham, and it's not remote like Tiverton. Those are the two demographics where Lib Dems can really work their magic and Labour don't stand a chance. I'm guessing that the demographics are more Eastleigh than Winchester, for example.
The last genuine 3 way battle in which Labour prevailed looks like 1982 Birmingham Northfield.
Both Labour and Conservative went backwards by around 9% and the Liberals gained 18%, but Labour nicked it by going backwards marginally less than the Tories.
I'm now heading further back for when Labour last completed with the Libs to grab lost Tory voters, if ever.
Of interest to students of the 3 way battles resulting in Labour gains are:
1962 Dorset South and Middlesborough West 1958 Rochdale
In each the pattern is the same - Labour holding steady or dropping a few percent whilst Liberals erode the Conservative vote much more.
I cannot see one Labour victory in which bot Labour and Liberals each gain significant percentage vote share from the Tories. The Lib Dems wins in Littleborough & Saddleworth and Eastleigh in 94/95 are the closest parallels out there to the expected pattern in Mid Beds, but LDs came from second in these.
P.S I never have understood the US evangelical love for Israel since Jews, by definition, deny that Christ was the Messiah or rose again.
It cropped up a few decades ago. The theory is that Israel has to exist so that the final battle on the plains of Meggido can take place, with the associated Second Coming and Rapture etc. No Jews, no Israel, no final battle and the evangelicals don't get the Armageddon of their choice. Somebody will probably link to a better source than my swiss-cheese brain.
But that is surely twaddle
Have no PB-ers ever traveled around Trump's America? I have. They are all interesting people. The religious and the irreligious, the black white brown and tartan, the fentanyl takers and the celeb Tennessee chefs
They support Trump - in my experience - out of desperation. They see the Woke Democrats as a threat to the essence of America (and I agree). A few really adore Trump but most don't, he is viewed as a necessary bulwark, the one guy who might beat the hated libtards in DC
I have never met an evanglelical American who supports Trump for the reasons cited
Evangelicals know that he is a pagan. But, they see him as King David, Cyrus, or Constantine, a pagan who is prepared to favour the righteous.
P.S I never have understood the US evangelical love for Israel since Jews, by definition, deny that Christ was the Messiah or rose again.
It cropped up a few decades ago. The theory is that Israel has to exist so that the final battle on the plains of Meggido can take place, with the associated Second Coming and Rapture etc. No Jews, no Israel, no final battle and the evangelicals don't get the Armageddon of their choice. Somebody will probably link to a better source than my swiss-cheese brain.
But that is surely twaddle
Have no PB-ers ever traveled around Trump's America? I have. They are all interesting people. The religious and the irreligious, the black white brown and tartan, the fentanyl takers and the celeb Tennessee chefs
They support Trump - in my experience - out of desperation. They see the Woke Democrats as a threat to the essence of America (and I agree). A few really adore Trump but most don't, he is viewed as a necessary bulwark, the one guy who might beat the hated libtards in DC
I have never met an evanglelical American who supports Trump for the reasons cited
Evangelicals know that he is a pagan. But, they see him as King David, Cyrus, or Constantine, a pagan who is prepared to favour the righteous.
P.S I never have understood the US evangelical love for Israel since Jews, by definition, deny that Christ was the Messiah or rose again.
It cropped up a few decades ago. The theory is that Israel has to exist so that the final battle on the plains of Meggido can take place, with the associated Second Coming and Rapture etc. No Jews, no Israel, no final battle and the evangelicals don't get the Armageddon of their choice. Somebody will probably link to a better source than my swiss-cheese brain.
And they wrote the Bible, which is full of handy tips for Evangelists.
A lot less of the liberal crap in the old bit. It was the result of having multiple pastors tell me, essentially, the same story about quoting the Sermon on the Mount, parenthetically, in their preaching — "turn the other cheek" — [and] to have someone come up after to say, "Where did you get those liberal talking points?" And what was alarming to me is that in most of these scenarios, when the pastor would say, "I'm literally quoting Jesus Christ," the response would not be, "I apologize." The response would be, "Yes, but that doesn't work anymore. That's weak." And when we get to the point where the teachings of Jesus himself are seen as subversive to us, then we're in a crisis. https://www.npr.org/2023/08/08/1192663920/southern-baptist-convention-donald-trump-christianity
She-bears devouring children for mocking Elijah's baldness and whacking Babylonian babies' heads off cliffs is simply a lot more fun.
I don’t know a single person who is anti -Semitic but apparently by gobby in here if you’re pro Palestinian you must be a Jew hater .
The debate becomes very polarized because some can’t accept that you can just simply want a two state solution where both Jews and Palestinians can live in peace .
The whole cycle of violence is so depressing .
How many fewer wars and conflicts would we have if we could abolish religion?
True . Religion has a lot to answer for . If the whole world followed humanism we’d be in a much better place .
Atheists like Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot don't have a great track record either. Wasn't Hitler an Athiest too?
He was most likely a deist rather than an atheist.
German Christians were a thing, though I don't know how far that was an adaptatioon or rather Coordination/Gleischschaltung to the NSDAP rather than anything else.
The Wehrmacht Heer and Kriegmarine did have Gott mit uns on their belt buckles.
Yes, as they had under the Kaiser.
The SS, who were the force actually created by and from the Nazis, went for 'Mein Ihre Heißt Treue.' They we're also supposed to reject membership of any church as it would have tested their loyalty to Hitler, although in practice most of them were religious.
A Hamas official, on record, says that none of atrocities committed at the weekend were done by Hamas forces. All done by 'other Gazans' apparently....
Strange that, as Hamas seemed well pleased with it all at the weekend.
Actually, and perhaps weirdly, I believe this
Hamas is not insane. It is surely evil, but it is not insane. They have just scored the biggest political own-goal in recent history. Slaughtering babies? Shooting pensioners? Raping kidnapped girls and filming it? Mowing down young festival goers? Tearing embryos out of pregnant women and stabbing them??
Sweet merciful Allah, I do not believe this is what they wanted. They wanted a heroic prison break out and a LOT of dead Israeli soldiers = good PR. Instead, by accident, they made more breaches in the wall than they needed and a lot of low level Hamas squaddies, or just basic Jew-hating lads with guns, got out of the enclave - estimates say 1500 - and these kids WERE filled with a hideous bloodlust which ended in the atrocities we see
It is a catastrophe for Hamas. Gaza will now be levelled and they are finished. The world will lament, but let it happen. Hamas is done
@Foxy I wonder what possessed the British Government to accept the Palestine Mandate, the very definition of a poisoned chalice. It had no natural resources, simply two communities who hated each other, and who increasingly hated us.
P.S I never have understood the US evangelical love for Israel since Jews, by definition, deny that Christ was the Messiah or rose again.
It cropped up a few decades ago. The theory is that Israel has to exist so that the final battle on the plains of Meggido can take place, with the associated Second Coming and Rapture etc. No Jews, no Israel, no final battle and the evangelicals don't get the Armageddon of their choice. Somebody will probably link to a better source than my swiss-cheese brain.
And they wrote the Bible, which is full of handy tips for Evangelists.
A lot less of the liberal crap in the old bit. It was the result of having multiple pastors tell me, essentially, the same story about quoting the Sermon on the Mount, parenthetically, in their preaching — "turn the other cheek" — [and] to have someone come up after to say, "Where did you get those liberal talking points?" And what was alarming to me is that in most of these scenarios, when the pastor would say, "I'm literally quoting Jesus Christ," the response would not be, "I apologize." The response would be, "Yes, but that doesn't work anymore. That's weak." And when we get to the point where the teachings of Jesus himself are seen as subversive to us, then we're in a crisis. https://www.npr.org/2023/08/08/1192663920/southern-baptist-convention-donald-trump-christianity
She-bears devouring children for mocking Elijah's baldness and whacking Babylonian babies' heads off cliffs is simply a lot more fun.
My favourite is the one about David being told to collect 100 Philistine foreskins as a bride price. I remember a comedy piece asking whether David thought that was an odd request, what the king planned to do with them etc. But main takeaway was that if someone is sent to collect 100 foreskins and then goes out and gets 200 as David did, well, that must be a love for the ages.
Foxy I wonder what possessed the British Government to accept the Palestine Mandate, the very definition of a poisoned chalice. It had no natural resources, simply two communities who hated each other, and who increasingly hated us.
Was it a case of simply not wanting to say no to being in charge of territory in the atmosphere of the time?
@Foxy I wonder what possessed the British Government to accept the Palestine Mandate, the very definition of a poisoned chalice. It had no natural resources, simply two communities who hated each other, and who increasingly hated us.
It was the peak of Empire. We grabbed what we could of the collapsing Ottoman Empire, in large part to control the area around Suez.
I don’t know a single person who is anti -Semitic but apparently by gobby in here if you’re pro Palestinian you must be a Jew hater .
The debate becomes very polarized because some can’t accept that you can just simply want a two state solution where both Jews and Palestinians can live in peace .
The whole cycle of violence is so depressing .
How many fewer wars and conflicts would we have if we could abolish religion?
True . Religion has a lot to answer for . If the whole world followed humanism we’d be in a much better place .
Atheists like Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot don't have a great track record either. Wasn't Hitler an Athiest too?
He was most likely a deist rather than an atheist.
German Christians were a thing, though I don't know how far that was an adaptatioon or rather Coordination/Gleischschaltung to the NSDAP rather than anything else.
The Wehrmacht Heer and Kriegmarine did have Gott mit uns on their belt buckles.
Yes, as they had under the Kaiser.
The SS, who were the force actually created by and from the Nazis, went for 'Mein Ihre Heißt Treue.' They we're also supposed to reject membership of any church as it would have tested their loyalty to Hitler, although in practice most of them were religious.
@Foxy I wonder what possessed the British Government to accept the Palestine Mandate, the very definition of a poisoned chalice. It had no natural resources, simply two communities who hated each other, and who increasingly hated us.
I don’t know a single person who is anti -Semitic but apparently by gobby in here if you’re pro Palestinian you must be a Jew hater .
The debate becomes very polarized because some can’t accept that you can just simply want a two state solution where both Jews and Palestinians can live in peace .
The whole cycle of violence is so depressing .
How many fewer wars and conflicts would we have if we could abolish religion?
True . Religion has a lot to answer for . If the whole world followed humanism we’d be in a much better place .
Atheists like Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot don't have a great track record either. Wasn't Hitler an Athiest too?
You do have a point but if they followed humanism history would have been very different . Religion was peddled to keep the masses in check so they would put up with abject poverty and being screwed .
I’ve never understood it and I can’t ever see myself suddenly finding God . However if religion helps people then good on them as long as they don’t moralize or use that to judge others . Which sadly often happens !
Or try to eliminate people who disagree with their faith. If the various religions were so wonderful, their proponents wouldn’t need to use violent means to convince others of their Gods of peace and understanding,
Mine is not a goddess of peace and understanding, having said that we have been involved in no jihads, crusades or religous terrorism. Go figure
P.S I never have understood the US evangelical love for Israel since Jews, by definition, deny that Christ was the Messiah or rose again.
It cropped up a few decades ago. The theory is that Israel has to exist so that the final battle on the plains of Meggido can take place, with the associated Second Coming and Rapture etc. No Jews, no Israel, no final battle and the evangelicals don't get the Armageddon of their choice. Somebody will probably link to a better source than my swiss-cheese brain.
And they wrote the Bible, which is full of handy tips for Evangelists.
A lot less of the liberal crap in the old bit. It was the result of having multiple pastors tell me, essentially, the same story about quoting the Sermon on the Mount, parenthetically, in their preaching — "turn the other cheek" — [and] to have someone come up after to say, "Where did you get those liberal talking points?" And what was alarming to me is that in most of these scenarios, when the pastor would say, "I'm literally quoting Jesus Christ," the response would not be, "I apologize." The response would be, "Yes, but that doesn't work anymore. That's weak." And when we get to the point where the teachings of Jesus himself are seen as subversive to us, then we're in a crisis. https://www.npr.org/2023/08/08/1192663920/southern-baptist-convention-donald-trump-christianity
She-bears devouring children for mocking Elijah's baldness and whacking Babylonian babies' heads off cliffs is simply a lot more fun.
My favourite is the one about David being told to collect 100 Philistine foreskins as a bride price. I remember a comedy piece asking whether David thought that was an odd request, what the king planned to do with them etc. But main takeaway was that if someone is sent to collect 100 foreskins and then goes out and gets 200 as David did, well, that must be a love for the ages.
If you want to impress a young woman, you bring a bunch of flowers.
If you want to impress the king of Israel, you bring a sack of foreskins.
A Hamas official, on record, says that none of atrocities committed at the weekend were done by Hamas forces. All done by 'other Gazans' apparently....
Strange that, as Hamas seemed well pleased with it all at the weekend.
Actually, and perhaps weirdly, I believe this
Hamas is not insane. It is surely evil, but it is not insane. They have just scored the biggest political own-goal in recent history. Slaughtering babies? Shooting pensioners? Raping kidnapped girls and filming it? Mowing down young festival goers? Tearing embryos out of pregnant women and stabbing them??
Sweet merciful Allah, I do not believe this is what they wanted. They wanted a heroic prison break out and a LOT of dead Israeli soldiers = good PR. Instead, by accident, they made more breaches in the wall than they needed and a lot of low level Hamas squaddies, or just basic Jew-hating lads with guns, got out of the enclave - estimates say 1500 - and these kids WERE filled with a hideous bloodlust which ended in the atrocities we see
It is a catastrophe for Hamas. Gaza will now be levelled and they are finished. The world will lament, but let it happen. Hamas is done
Hamas got high on their own supply and screwed up. They believed that Israel would be restrained by the West no matter what they did, so t hey could strike and destroy the peace talks with Saudi Arabia and all that would happen is something minor like a few missiles getting lobbed their way in retaliation and that would be it. Which is what normally happens.
I think the scale of the Israeli response has really caught them by surprise, as too has the reaction of the rest of the West.
Hamas has played a blinder. Netanyahu's reputation as pro-Trump, pro-Putin anti-democratic maniac has been glaringly exposed to the world in recent times. Israel won't get a shred of sympathy. In terms of propaganda, Hamas holds all the cards here.
I don’t know a single person who is anti -Semitic but apparently by gobby in here if you’re pro Palestinian you must be a Jew hater .
The debate becomes very polarized because some can’t accept that you can just simply want a two state solution where both Jews and Palestinians can live in peace .
The whole cycle of violence is so depressing .
How many fewer wars and conflicts would we have if we could abolish religion?
True . Religion has a lot to answer for . If the whole world followed humanism we’d be in a much better place .
Atheists like Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot don't have a great track record either. Wasn't Hitler an Athiest too?
But not humanists
Anyone who worships humans must be struggling this week.
I said last week I am in fact a Trainist.
Yes, but GWR, LNER, SR or LMS?
GER built Newbury Park, my nearest above ground train station
A Hamas official, on record, says that none of atrocities committed at the weekend were done by Hamas forces. All done by 'other Gazans' apparently....
Strange that, as Hamas seemed well pleased with it all at the weekend.
Actually, and perhaps weirdly, I believe this
Hamas is not insane. It is surely evil, but it is not insane. They have just scored the biggest political own-goal in recent history. Slaughtering babies? Shooting pensioners? Raping kidnapped girls and filming it? Mowing down young festival goers? Tearing embryos out of pregnant women and stabbing them??
Sweet merciful Allah, I do not believe this is what they wanted. They wanted a heroic prison break out and a LOT of dead Israeli soldiers = good PR. Instead, by accident, they made more breaches in the wall than they needed and a lot of low level Hamas squaddies, or just basic Jew-hating lads with guns, got out of the enclave - estimates say 1500 - and these kids WERE filled with a hideous bloodlust which ended in the atrocities we see
It is a catastrophe for Hamas. Gaza will now be levelled and they are finished. The world will lament, but let it happen. Hamas is done
Hamas got high on their own supply and screwed up. They believed that Israel would be restrained by the West no matter what they did, so t hey could strike and destroy the peace talks with Saudi Arabia and all that would happen is something minor like a few missiles getting lobbed their way in retaliation and that would be it. Which is what normally happens.
I think the scale of the Israeli response has really caught them by surprise, as too has the reaction of the rest of the West.
Hamas has played a blinder. Netanyahu's reputation as pro-Trump, pro-Putin anti-democratic maniac has been glaringly exposed to the world in recent times. Israel won't get a shred of sympathy. In terms of propaganda, Hamas holds all the cards here.
Foxy I wonder what possessed the British Government to accept the Palestine Mandate, the very definition of a poisoned chalice. It had no natural resources, simply two communities who hated each other, and who increasingly hated us.
Was it a case of simply not wanting to say no to being in charge of territory in the atmosphere of the time?
Yes, much like the scramble for Africa. Powers laid claim to wide tracts of territory, of no economic value, simply to stop other powers from laying claim to it.
@Foxy I wonder what possessed the British Government to accept the Palestine Mandate, the very definition of a poisoned chalice. It had no natural resources, simply two communities who hated each other, and who increasingly hated us.
It was the peak of Empire. We grabbed what we could of the collapsing Ottoman Empire, in large part to control the area around Suez.
Yet, Iraq, which had vast oil reserves, was given independence in 1932. No one was thinking clearly.
A Hamas official, on record, says that none of atrocities committed at the weekend were done by Hamas forces. All done by 'other Gazans' apparently....
Strange that, as Hamas seemed well pleased with it all at the weekend.
Actually, and perhaps weirdly, I believe this
Hamas is not insane. It is surely evil, but it is not insane. They have just scored the biggest political own-goal in recent history. Slaughtering babies? Shooting pensioners? Raping kidnapped girls and filming it? Mowing down young festival goers? Tearing embryos out of pregnant women and stabbing them??
Sweet merciful Allah, I do not believe this is what they wanted. They wanted a heroic prison break out and a LOT of dead Israeli soldiers = good PR. Instead, by accident, they made more breaches in the wall than they needed and a lot of low level Hamas squaddies, or just basic Jew-hating lads with guns, got out of the enclave - estimates say 1500 - and these kids WERE filled with a hideous bloodlust which ended in the atrocities we see
It is a catastrophe for Hamas. Gaza will now be levelled and they are finished. The world will lament, but let it happen. Hamas is done
Hamas got high on their own supply and screwed up. They believed that Israel would be restrained by the West no matter what they did, so t hey could strike and destroy the peace talks with Saudi Arabia and all that would happen is something minor like a few missiles getting lobbed their way in retaliation and that would be it. Which is what normally happens.
I think the scale of the Israeli response has really caught them by surprise, as too has the reaction of the rest of the West.
Hamas has played a blinder. Netanyahu's reputation as pro-Trump, pro-Putin anti-democratic maniac has been glaringly exposed to the world in recent times. Israel won't get a shred of sympathy. In terms of propaganda, Hamas holds all the cards here.
I remember - I may be wrong, I was but a lurker - when he was a sane sensible PB Tory. Then Brexit did this to him. Quite bizarre
If I have got the history wrong then I apologise to @Stark_Dawning
Yes, if ever there was a case of Brexit Derangement Syndrome, there is the alpha example. Not just on Brexit, but across the board become completely deranged.
P.S I never have understood the US evangelical love for Israel since Jews, by definition, deny that Christ was the Messiah or rose again.
It cropped up a few decades ago. The theory is that Israel has to exist so that the final battle on the plains of Meggido can take place, with the associated Second Coming and Rapture etc. No Jews, no Israel, no final battle and the evangelicals don't get the Armageddon of their choice. Somebody will probably link to a better source than my swiss-cheese brain.
And they wrote the Bible, which is full of handy tips for Evangelists.
A lot less of the liberal crap in the old bit. It was the result of having multiple pastors tell me, essentially, the same story about quoting the Sermon on the Mount, parenthetically, in their preaching — "turn the other cheek" — [and] to have someone come up after to say, "Where did you get those liberal talking points?" And what was alarming to me is that in most of these scenarios, when the pastor would say, "I'm literally quoting Jesus Christ," the response would not be, "I apologize." The response would be, "Yes, but that doesn't work anymore. That's weak." And when we get to the point where the teachings of Jesus himself are seen as subversive to us, then we're in a crisis. https://www.npr.org/2023/08/08/1192663920/southern-baptist-convention-donald-trump-christianity
She-bears devouring children for mocking Elijah's baldness and whacking Babylonian babies' heads off cliffs is simply a lot more fun.
My favourite is the one about David being told to collect 100 Philistine foreskins as a bride price. I remember a comedy piece asking whether David thought that was an odd request, what the king planned to do with them etc. But main takeaway was that if someone is sent to collect 100 foreskins and then goes out and gets 200 as David did, well, that must be a love for the ages.
Which reminds me of a joke.
A moleh announces his retirement, and was asked what he had done with all the foreskins collected over his life's work.
He announced that he had collected them all and turned them into a small leather wallet.
"Is that it?" Asked his friend, "I thought there would be more"
The moleh replied "but if you rub it , it turns into a suitcase"
A Hamas official, on record, says that none of atrocities committed at the weekend were done by Hamas forces. All done by 'other Gazans' apparently....
Strange that, as Hamas seemed well pleased with it all at the weekend.
Actually, and perhaps weirdly, I believe this
Hamas is not insane. It is surely evil, but it is not insane. They have just scored the biggest political own-goal in recent history. Slaughtering babies? Shooting pensioners? Raping kidnapped girls and filming it? Mowing down young festival goers? Tearing embryos out of pregnant women and stabbing them??
Sweet merciful Allah, I do not believe this is what they wanted. They wanted a heroic prison break out and a LOT of dead Israeli soldiers = good PR. Instead, by accident, they made more breaches in the wall than they needed and a lot of low level Hamas squaddies, or just basic Jew-hating lads with guns, got out of the enclave - estimates say 1500 - and these kids WERE filled with a hideous bloodlust which ended in the atrocities we see
It is a catastrophe for Hamas. Gaza will now be levelled and they are finished. The world will lament, but let it happen. Hamas is done
Hamas got high on their own supply and screwed up. They believed that Israel would be restrained by the West no matter what they did, so t hey could strike and destroy the peace talks with Saudi Arabia and all that would happen is something minor like a few missiles getting lobbed their way in retaliation and that would be it. Which is what normally happens.
I think the scale of the Israeli response has really caught them by surprise, as too has the reaction of the rest of the West.
Hamas has played a blinder. Netanyahu's reputation as pro-Trump, pro-Putin anti-democratic maniac has been glaringly exposed to the world in recent times. Israel won't get a shred of sympathy. In terms of propaganda, Hamas holds all the cards here.
I don’t know a single person who is anti -Semitic but apparently by gobby in here if you’re pro Palestinian you must be a Jew hater .
The debate becomes very polarized because some can’t accept that you can just simply want a two state solution where both Jews and Palestinians can live in peace .
The whole cycle of violence is so depressing .
How many fewer wars and conflicts would we have if we could abolish religion?
Not WW1 or WW2 or Vietnam or Korea or the Falklands or Crimea or Boer or Napeoleonic Wars or Russian invasion of Ukraine or indeed most major wars of the last 200 years
If Trump doesn’t support Israel, does he lose evangelicals? Do they matter to him now?
It seems impossible for him to lose the vast majority of his support - even when he says something they truly would be against you might get some criticism - a few of the candidates who usually dare not criticise him directly by name have done so over this, so must feel the base will be at least a little receptive to that - but I would be my house (if I had one) that by next week they'll be as fervent in support as ever.
It comes down to whether an extra couple of percent can be peeled away, which hopefully should be enough. It is a bizarre topic for him to push them on, in part it seems drive by annoyance at Netanyahu for 'disloyalty' to him or something, since it goes against their instincts.
I wonder. What if one of the proper bonkers preacher types with unimpeachable bonkers Republican credentials disowned him?
I just wonder if in Trump’s mind this was another Ukraine and he’s miscalculated that it tapped into the same (disgusting) isolationist niche.
That or he really is just doing Putin’s bidding.
It sounds plausible. He also naturally wants to pin the tragedy to Biden any way he can, and so would not want to say things that seem like what Biden is saying.
The question for me is on those rock solid GOP figures who Trump detests and has spent years attacking like Kemp in Georgia, who have managed to avoid being brought down. And yet who continue to support him if he is the nominee. I wouldn't expect that to change, but could they at last try a bit harder to persuade the base, even futilely, to not select him?
It’s like when Trump slagged off Cruz’s wife and the spineless slime then bent over and let Trump bang him mercilessly.
Evangelicals actually voted for Cruz in 2016 not Trump in Iowa where they dominate
I don’t know a single person who is anti -Semitic but apparently by gobby in here if you’re pro Palestinian you must be a Jew hater .
The debate becomes very polarized because some can’t accept that you can just simply want a two state solution where both Jews and Palestinians can live in peace .
The whole cycle of violence is so depressing .
How many fewer wars and conflicts would we have if we could abolish religion?
True . Religion has a lot to answer for . If the whole world followed humanism we’d be in a much better place .
Atheists like Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot don't have a great track record either. Wasn't Hitler an Athiest too?
He was most likely a deist rather than an atheist.
German Christians were a thing, though I don't know how far that was an adaptatioon or rather Coordination/Gleischschaltung to the NSDAP rather than anything else.
The Wehrmacht Heer and Kriegmarine did have Gott mit uns on their belt buckles.
Yes, as they had under the Kaiser.
The SS, who were the force actually created by and from the Nazis, went for 'Mein Ihre Heißt Treue.' They we're also supposed to reject membership of any church as it would have tested their loyalty to Hitler, although in practice most of them were religious.
I don’t know a single person who is anti -Semitic but apparently by gobby in here if you’re pro Palestinian you must be a Jew hater .
The debate becomes very polarized because some can’t accept that you can just simply want a two state solution where both Jews and Palestinians can live in peace .
The whole cycle of violence is so depressing .
How many fewer wars and conflicts would we have if we could abolish religion?
True . Religion has a lot to answer for . If the whole world followed humanism we’d be in a much better place .
Humanism? A dull, boring, 'we are the world' creed. Even Common Worship and 'Shine Jesus Shine' is more interesting with more depth.
People need mystique. A Latin Mass or Evensong in a great cathedral or humanist readings in some dull hall? No contest.
Even the Nuremberg rallies with the torches and fiery oratory would have been more interesting than a humanist event (hence why we need proper religion to ensure the passions don't go in the wrong direction)
P.S I never have understood the US evangelical love for Israel since Jews, by definition, deny that Christ was the Messiah or rose again.
It cropped up a few decades ago. The theory is that Israel has to exist so that the final battle on the plains of Meggido can take place, with the associated Second Coming and Rapture etc. No Jews, no Israel, no final battle and the evangelicals don't get the Armageddon of their choice. Somebody will probably link to a better source than my swiss-cheese brain.
And they wrote the Bible, which is full of handy tips for Evangelists.
A lot less of the liberal crap in the old bit. It was the result of having multiple pastors tell me, essentially, the same story about quoting the Sermon on the Mount, parenthetically, in their preaching — "turn the other cheek" — [and] to have someone come up after to say, "Where did you get those liberal talking points?" And what was alarming to me is that in most of these scenarios, when the pastor would say, "I'm literally quoting Jesus Christ," the response would not be, "I apologize." The response would be, "Yes, but that doesn't work anymore. That's weak." And when we get to the point where the teachings of Jesus himself are seen as subversive to us, then we're in a crisis. https://www.npr.org/2023/08/08/1192663920/southern-baptist-convention-donald-trump-christianity
She-bears devouring children for mocking Elijah's baldness and whacking Babylonian babies' heads off cliffs is simply a lot more fun.
My favourite is the one about David being told to collect 100 Philistine foreskins as a bride price. I remember a comedy piece asking whether David thought that was an odd request, what the king planned to do with them etc. But main takeaway was that if someone is sent to collect 100 foreskins and then goes out and gets 200 as David did, well, that must be a love for the ages.
Which reminds me of a joke.
A moleh announces his retirement, and was asked what he had done with all the foreskins collected over his life's work.
He announced that he had collected them all and turned them into a small leather wallet.
"Is that it?" Asked his friend, "I thought there would be more"
The moleh replied "but if you rub it , it turns into a suitcase"
If Trump doesn’t support Israel, does he lose evangelicals? Do they matter to him now?
It seems impossible for him to lose the vast majority of his support - even when he says something they truly would be against you might get some criticism - a few of the candidates who usually dare not criticise him directly by name have done so over this, so must feel the base will be at least a little receptive to that - but I would be my house (if I had one) that by next week they'll be as fervent in support as ever.
It comes down to whether an extra couple of percent can be peeled away, which hopefully should be enough. It is a bizarre topic for him to push them on, in part it seems drive by annoyance at Netanyahu for 'disloyalty' to him or something, since it goes against their instincts.
I wonder. What if one of the proper bonkers preacher types with unimpeachable bonkers Republican credentials disowned him?
I just wonder if in Trump’s mind this was another Ukraine and he’s miscalculated that it tapped into the same (disgusting) isolationist niche.
That or he really is just doing Putin’s bidding.
It sounds plausible. He also naturally wants to pin the tragedy to Biden any way he can, and so would not want to say things that seem like what Biden is saying.
The question for me is on those rock solid GOP figures who Trump detests and has spent years attacking like Kemp in Georgia, who have managed to avoid being brought down. And yet who continue to support him if he is the nominee. I wouldn't expect that to change, but could they at last try a bit harder to persuade the base, even futilely, to not select him?
It’s like when Trump slagged off Cruz’s wife and the spineless slime then bent over and let Trump bang him mercilessly.
Evangelicals actually voted for Cruz in 2016 not Trump in Iowa where they dominate
Surely not, Trump assures us he won Iowa. The billionaire businessman, still licking his wounds after a decisive loss in Iowa on Monday, is now crying foul, accusing Ted Cruz of stealing the election and calling for a do-over...
“Ted Cruz didn’t win Iowa, he illegally stole it. That is why all of the polls were so wrong any [sic] why he got more votes than anticipated. Bad!” Trump tweeted Wednesday morning
I don’t know a single person who is anti -Semitic but apparently by gobby in here if you’re pro Palestinian you must be a Jew hater .
The debate becomes very polarized because some can’t accept that you can just simply want a two state solution where both Jews and Palestinians can live in peace .
The whole cycle of violence is so depressing .
How many fewer wars and conflicts would we have if we could abolish religion?
True . Religion has a lot to answer for . If the whole world followed humanism we’d be in a much better place .
Atheists like Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot don't have a great track record either. Wasn't Hitler an Athiest too?
The atheism was incidental. Totalitarians, whether Nazi, Fascist, Communist, military or whatever, do not tolerate alternative independent sources of power/truth e.g. organised religions or similar. Hence the CCPs suppression of Falun Gong.
Sir Keir Starmer has held “detailed and very extensive” talks with the Democratic Unionist Party (DUP) over Labour’s plans for a closer relationship with the EU.
Sir Jeffrey Donaldson, the DUP’s leader, revealed he had opened discussions with the leader of the Labour Party over scrapping the Irish Sea border if they win the next election.
Sir Keir Starmer has held “detailed and very extensive” talks with the Democratic Unionist Party (DUP) over Labour’s plans for a closer relationship with the EU.
Sir Jeffrey Donaldson, the DUP’s leader, revealed he had opened discussions with the leader of the Labour Party over scrapping the Irish Sea border if they win the next election.
Starmer covering all bases so Sunak has no get out clause if a hung parliament
I don’t know a single person who is anti -Semitic but apparently by gobby in here if you’re pro Palestinian you must be a Jew hater .
The debate becomes very polarized because some can’t accept that you can just simply want a two state solution where both Jews and Palestinians can live in peace .
The whole cycle of violence is so depressing .
How many fewer wars and conflicts would we have if we could abolish religion?
True . Religion has a lot to answer for . If the whole world followed humanism we’d be in a much better place .
Humanism? A dull, boring, 'we are the world' creed. Even Common Worship and 'Shine Jesus Shine' is more interesting with more depth.
People need mystique. A Latin Mass or Evensong in a great cathedral or humanist readings in some dull hall? No contest.
Even the Nuremberg rallies with the torches and fiery oratory would have been more interesting than a humanist event (hence why we need proper religion to ensure the passions don't go in the wrong direction)
It's "Imagine" as a manifesto. If I want moral lessons, they certainly won't be coming from John Lennon.
Sir Keir Starmer has held “detailed and very extensive” talks with the Democratic Unionist Party (DUP) over Labour’s plans for a closer relationship with the EU.
Sir Jeffrey Donaldson, the DUP’s leader, revealed he had opened discussions with the leader of the Labour Party over scrapping the Irish Sea border if they win the next election.
Bants: Labour fails to get a majority and goes into coalition with the Lib Dems and DUP to implement Theresa May's Brexit that they voted against.
We have imported virulent anti Semitism from abroad, via immigration, and it turns out multiculturalism is a disaster
Does that include the multiculturalism that arose when we imported Jewish refugees fleeing Czarist pogroms at the end of the 19th century, who went on to form distinctive communities with variable degrees of assimilation?
No. They were fine
Churchill had his doubts. Which is why, as a professional soldier he isn’t taking cover behind a plate glass window, in the following picture. But using a brick wall.
A point on religion. Most that perpertrate horror in the name of religion are followers of monotheistic faiths not polytheistic. Maybe therefore its not faith thats the issue but monotheism which most have the ideology "there is no god but me"
I don’t know a single person who is anti -Semitic but apparently by gobby in here if you’re pro Palestinian you must be a Jew hater .
The debate becomes very polarized because some can’t accept that you can just simply want a two state solution where both Jews and Palestinians can live in peace .
The whole cycle of violence is so depressing .
How many fewer wars and conflicts would we have if we could abolish religion?
True . Religion has a lot to answer for . If the whole world followed humanism we’d be in a much better place .
Humanism? A dull, boring, 'we are the world' creed. Even Common Worship and 'Shine Jesus Shine' is more interesting with more depth.
People need mystique. A Latin Mass or Evensong in a great cathedral or humanist readings in some dull hall? No contest.
Even the Nuremberg rallies with the torches and fiery oratory would have been more interesting than a humanist event (hence why we need proper religion to ensure the passions don't go in the wrong direction)
It's "Imagine" as a manifesto. If I want moral lessons, they certainly won't be coming from John Lennon.
Its really not, Lennon wasn't even a humanist.
Humanist ideas have existed since before Socrates and were a key influence in the Renaissance and the Enlightenment.
John Lennon style crap is not what humanist means.
We have imported virulent anti Semitism from abroad, via immigration, and it turns out multiculturalism is a disaster
Does that include the multiculturalism that arose when we imported Jewish refugees fleeing Czarist pogroms at the end of the 19th century, who went on to form distinctive communities with variable degrees of assimilation?
No. They were fine
Churchill had his doubts. Which is why, as a professional soldier he isn’t taking cover behind a plate glass window, in the following picture. But using a brick wall.
I've seen that photo before but I still love it
The hats. The coats
"Look there's an urban insurrection going on round the corner but I absolutely need to wear my top hat and my coat with the Astrakhan lining, thanks"
I don’t know a single person who is anti -Semitic but apparently by gobby in here if you’re pro Palestinian you must be a Jew hater .
The debate becomes very polarized because some can’t accept that you can just simply want a two state solution where both Jews and Palestinians can live in peace .
The whole cycle of violence is so depressing .
How many fewer wars and conflicts would we have if we could abolish religion?
True . Religion has a lot to answer for . If the whole world followed humanism we’d be in a much better place .
Humanism? A dull, boring, 'we are the world' creed. Even Common Worship and 'Shine Jesus Shine' is more interesting with more depth.
People need mystique. A Latin Mass or Evensong in a great cathedral or humanist readings in some dull hall? No contest.
Even the Nuremberg rallies with the torches and fiery oratory would have been more interesting than a humanist event (hence why we need proper religion to ensure the passions don't go in the wrong direction)
This is an extremely perceptive comment and deserves 12 "likes"
A point on religion. Most that perpertrate horror in the name of religion are followers of monotheistic faiths not polytheistic. Maybe therefore its not faith thats the issue but monotheism which most have the ideology "there is no god but me"
A point on religion. Most that perpertrate horror in the name of religion are followers of monotheistic faiths not polytheistic. Maybe therefore its not faith thats the issue but monotheism which most have the ideology "there is no god but me"
I am sure the Muslims and Christians facing attacks from the RSS extremists and BJP hardliners would disagree. As would those executed or crucified by the polytheistic Romans (including one JC) or those sacrificed with their hearts taken out and shown in front of their eyes before they were thrown down the pyramid by the polytheistic Aztecs
A point on religion. Most that perpertrate horror in the name of religion are followers of monotheistic faiths not polytheistic. Maybe therefore its not faith thats the issue but monotheism which most have the ideology "there is no god but me"
That's similar to my long-running view that the problem is absolutism and setting aside critical thinking.
The consistency across organised religion and extreme beliefs like communism etc is their insistence on purity and telling people that they must unquestioningly support whatever their leaders tell them on faith.
I don’t know a single person who is anti -Semitic but apparently by gobby in here if you’re pro Palestinian you must be a Jew hater .
The debate becomes very polarized because some can’t accept that you can just simply want a two state solution where both Jews and Palestinians can live in peace .
The whole cycle of violence is so depressing .
How many fewer wars and conflicts would we have if we could abolish religion?
True . Religion has a lot to answer for . If the whole world followed humanism we’d be in a much better place .
Humanism? A dull, boring, 'we are the world' creed. Even Common Worship and 'Shine Jesus Shine' is more interesting with more depth.
People need mystique. A Latin Mass or Evensong in a great cathedral or humanist readings in some dull hall? No contest.
Even the Nuremberg rallies with the torches and fiery oratory would have been more interesting than a humanist event (hence why we need proper religion to ensure the passions don't go in the wrong direction)
It's "Imagine" as a manifesto. If I want moral lessons, they certainly won't be coming from John Lennon.
Hmm ensure the passions don't go in the wrong direction? Really...spanish inquisition, Matthew Hopkins, crusades, to name a few....thats ensuring passions don't go in the wrong direction?
I don’t know a single person who is anti -Semitic but apparently by gobby in here if you’re pro Palestinian you must be a Jew hater .
The debate becomes very polarized because some can’t accept that you can just simply want a two state solution where both Jews and Palestinians can live in peace .
The whole cycle of violence is so depressing .
How many fewer wars and conflicts would we have if we could abolish religion?
True . Religion has a lot to answer for . If the whole world followed humanism we’d be in a much better place .
Humanism? A dull, boring, 'we are the world' creed. Even Common Worship and 'Shine Jesus Shine' is more interesting with more depth.
People need mystique. A Latin Mass or Evensong in a great cathedral or humanist readings in some dull hall? No contest.
Even the Nuremberg rallies with the torches and fiery oratory would have been more interesting than a humanist event (hence why we need proper religion to ensure the passions don't go in the wrong direction)
This is an extremely perceptive comment and deserves 12 "likes"
P.S I never have understood the US evangelical love for Israel since Jews, by definition, deny that Christ was the Messiah or rose again.
It cropped up a few decades ago. The theory is that Israel has to exist so that the final battle on the plains of Meggido can take place, with the associated Second Coming and Rapture etc. No Jews, no Israel, no final battle and the evangelicals don't get the Armageddon of their choice. Somebody will probably link to a better source than my swiss-cheese brain.
And they wrote the Bible, which is full of handy tips for Evangelists.
A lot less of the liberal crap in the old bit. It was the result of having multiple pastors tell me, essentially, the same story about quoting the Sermon on the Mount, parenthetically, in their preaching — "turn the other cheek" — [and] to have someone come up after to say, "Where did you get those liberal talking points?" And what was alarming to me is that in most of these scenarios, when the pastor would say, "I'm literally quoting Jesus Christ," the response would not be, "I apologize." The response would be, "Yes, but that doesn't work anymore. That's weak." And when we get to the point where the teachings of Jesus himself are seen as subversive to us, then we're in a crisis. https://www.npr.org/2023/08/08/1192663920/southern-baptist-convention-donald-trump-christianity
She-bears devouring children for mocking Elijah's baldness and whacking Babylonian babies' heads off cliffs is simply a lot more fun.
My favourite is the one about David being told to collect 100 Philistine foreskins as a bride price. I remember a comedy piece asking whether David thought that was an odd request, what the king planned to do with them etc. But main takeaway was that if someone is sent to collect 100 foreskins and then goes out and gets 200 as David did, well, that must be a love for the ages.
Was that maybe God knows by Joseph Heller? I read it about 35 years ago. It was very funny and, ultimately, quite moving.
I don’t know a single person who is anti -Semitic but apparently by gobby in here if you’re pro Palestinian you must be a Jew hater .
The debate becomes very polarized because some can’t accept that you can just simply want a two state solution where both Jews and Palestinians can live in peace .
The whole cycle of violence is so depressing .
How many fewer wars and conflicts would we have if we could abolish religion?
True . Religion has a lot to answer for . If the whole world followed humanism we’d be in a much better place .
Humanism? A dull, boring, 'we are the world' creed. Even Common Worship and 'Shine Jesus Shine' is more interesting with more depth.
People need mystique. A Latin Mass or Evensong in a great cathedral or humanist readings in some dull hall? No contest.
Even the Nuremberg rallies with the torches and fiery oratory would have been more interesting than a humanist event (hence why we need proper religion to ensure the passions don't go in the wrong direction)
It's "Imagine" as a manifesto. If I want moral lessons, they certainly won't be coming from John Lennon.
Hmm ensure the passions don't go in the wrong direction? Really...spanish inquisition, Matthew Hopkins, crusades, to name a few....thats ensuring passions don't go in the wrong direction?
Well at least those events were interesting compared to the yawnfest of a humanist event, the average man on the street also needs something to control their passions and a moral code. That certainly isn't coming from humanism
I don’t know a single person who is anti -Semitic but apparently by gobby in here if you’re pro Palestinian you must be a Jew hater .
The debate becomes very polarized because some can’t accept that you can just simply want a two state solution where both Jews and Palestinians can live in peace .
The whole cycle of violence is so depressing .
How many fewer wars and conflicts would we have if we could abolish religion?
True . Religion has a lot to answer for . If the whole world followed humanism we’d be in a much better place .
Humanism? A dull, boring, 'we are the world' creed. Even Common Worship and 'Shine Jesus Shine' is more interesting with more depth.
People need mystique. A Latin Mass or Evensong in a great cathedral or humanist readings in some dull hall? No contest.
Even the Nuremberg rallies with the torches and fiery oratory would have been more interesting than a humanist event (hence why we need proper religion to ensure the passions don't go in the wrong direction)
It's "Imagine" as a manifesto. If I want moral lessons, they certainly won't be coming from John Lennon.
Hmm ensure the passions don't go in the wrong direction? Really...spanish inquisition, Matthew Hopkins, crusades, to name a few....thats ensuring passions don't go in the wrong direction?
Well at least those events were interesting compared to the yawnfest of a humanist event, the average man on the street also needs something to control their passions and a moral code. That certainly isn't coming from humanism
No the average man on the street absolutely does not need something to "control" them, that's kind of the point.
A point on religion. Most that perpertrate horror in the name of religion are followers of monotheistic faiths not polytheistic. Maybe therefore its not faith thats the issue but monotheism which most have the ideology "there is no god but me"
I am sure the Muslims and Christians facing attacks from the RSS extremists and BJP hardliners would disagree. As would those executed or crucified by the polytheistic Romans (including one JC) or those sacrificed with their hearts taken out and shown in front of their eyes before they were thrown down the pyramid by the polytheistic Aztecs
Well it was leaders of the jewish community that wanted jesus crucified even according to your bible. Other than that it was mostly those they regarded as criminals and christians were rightly regarded as criminals in the roman empire after that because they were. Yes bjp and rss are problematic now but thats more about politics than faith despite what they say.
Monotheistic religions account for probably 99% of deaths caused in wars over religion and terrorism
A point on religion. Most that perpertrate horror in the name of religion are followers of monotheistic faiths not polytheistic. Maybe therefore its not faith thats the issue but monotheism which most have the ideology "there is no god but me"
I am sure the Muslims and Christians facing attacks from the RSS extremists and BJP hardliners would disagree. As would those executed or crucified by the polytheistic Romans (including one JC) or those sacrificed with their hearts taken out and shown in front of their eyes before they were thrown down the pyramid by the polytheistic Aztecs
The grim reality is that humans are pretty good at utter depravity without the encouragement of God or Gods. And it's at least possible that some religious cruelty is restrained a bit, but nowhere near enough, by realisations of Big Guys watching us from above.
We have imported virulent anti Semitism from abroad, via immigration, and it turns out multiculturalism is a disaster
Does that include the multiculturalism that arose when we imported Jewish refugees fleeing Czarist pogroms at the end of the 19th century, who went on to form distinctive communities with variable degrees of assimilation?
No. They were fine
Churchill had his doubts. Which is why, as a professional soldier he isn’t taking cover behind a plate glass window, in the following picture. But using a brick wall.
I've seen that photo before but I still love it
The hats. The coats
"Look there's an urban insurrection going on round the corner but I absolutely need to wear my top hat and my coat with the Astrakhan lining, thanks"
At least he went to the right Sydney Street. SW3 would have been closer.
A point on religion. Most that perpertrate horror in the name of religion are followers of monotheistic faiths not polytheistic. Maybe therefore its not faith thats the issue but monotheism which most have the ideology "there is no god but me"
I don’t know a single person who is anti -Semitic but apparently by gobby in here if you’re pro Palestinian you must be a Jew hater .
The debate becomes very polarized because some can’t accept that you can just simply want a two state solution where both Jews and Palestinians can live in peace .
The whole cycle of violence is so depressing .
How many fewer wars and conflicts would we have if we could abolish religion?
True . Religion has a lot to answer for . If the whole world followed humanism we’d be in a much better place .
Humanism? A dull, boring, 'we are the world' creed. Even Common Worship and 'Shine Jesus Shine' is more interesting with more depth.
People need mystique. A Latin Mass or Evensong in a great cathedral or humanist readings in some dull hall? No contest.
Even the Nuremberg rallies with the torches and fiery oratory would have been more interesting than a humanist event (hence why we need proper religion to ensure the passions don't go in the wrong direction)
It's "Imagine" as a manifesto. If I want moral lessons, they certainly won't be coming from John Lennon.
Its really not, Lennon wasn't even a humanist.
Humanist ideas have existed since before Socrates and were a key influence in the Renaissance and the Enlightenment.
John Lennon style crap is not what humanist means.
I don't want to spoil the party but I've got a feeling you're both wrong about Lennon; his ideas don't seem bad to me.
I don’t know a single person who is anti -Semitic but apparently by gobby in here if you’re pro Palestinian you must be a Jew hater .
The debate becomes very polarized because some can’t accept that you can just simply want a two state solution where both Jews and Palestinians can live in peace .
The whole cycle of violence is so depressing .
How many fewer wars and conflicts would we have if we could abolish religion?
True . Religion has a lot to answer for . If the whole world followed humanism we’d be in a much better place .
Humanism? A dull, boring, 'we are the world' creed. Even Common Worship and 'Shine Jesus Shine' is more interesting with more depth.
People need mystique. A Latin Mass or Evensong in a great cathedral or humanist readings in some dull hall? No contest.
Even the Nuremberg rallies with the torches and fiery oratory would have been more interesting than a humanist event (hence why we need proper religion to ensure the passions don't go in the wrong direction)
It's "Imagine" as a manifesto. If I want moral lessons, they certainly won't be coming from John Lennon.
Hmm ensure the passions don't go in the wrong direction? Really...spanish inquisition, Matthew Hopkins, crusades, to name a few....thats ensuring passions don't go in the wrong direction?
Well at least those events were interesting compared to the yawnfest of a humanist event, the average man on the street also needs something to control their passions and a moral code. That certainly isn't coming from humanism
Wow they were interesting.....that excuses the deaths because at least they were interesting....those rallies you mention in Nuremburg led to the holocaust...but thats ok at least it was fucking interesting. You really are a twat.
P.S I never have understood the US evangelical love for Israel since Jews, by definition, deny that Christ was the Messiah or rose again.
It cropped up a few decades ago. The theory is that Israel has to exist so that the final battle on the plains of Meggido can take place, with the associated Second Coming and Rapture etc. No Jews, no Israel, no final battle and the evangelicals don't get the Armageddon of their choice. Somebody will probably link to a better source than my swiss-cheese brain.
And they wrote the Bible, which is full of handy tips for Evangelists.
A lot less of the liberal crap in the old bit. It was the result of having multiple pastors tell me, essentially, the same story about quoting the Sermon on the Mount, parenthetically, in their preaching — "turn the other cheek" — [and] to have someone come up after to say, "Where did you get those liberal talking points?" And what was alarming to me is that in most of these scenarios, when the pastor would say, "I'm literally quoting Jesus Christ," the response would not be, "I apologize." The response would be, "Yes, but that doesn't work anymore. That's weak." And when we get to the point where the teachings of Jesus himself are seen as subversive to us, then we're in a crisis. https://www.npr.org/2023/08/08/1192663920/southern-baptist-convention-donald-trump-christianity
She-bears devouring children for mocking Elijah's baldness and whacking Babylonian babies' heads off cliffs is simply a lot more fun.
My favourite is the one about David being told to collect 100 Philistine foreskins as a bride price. I remember a comedy piece asking whether David thought that was an odd request, what the king planned to do with them etc. But main takeaway was that if someone is sent to collect 100 foreskins and then goes out and gets 200 as David did, well, that must be a love for the ages.
Was that maybe God knows by Joseph Heller? I read it about 35 years ago. It was very funny and, ultimately, quite moving.
If it was then Cracked.Com ripped him off, since that was where I read it.
I don’t know a single person who is anti -Semitic but apparently by gobby in here if you’re pro Palestinian you must be a Jew hater .
The debate becomes very polarized because some can’t accept that you can just simply want a two state solution where both Jews and Palestinians can live in peace .
The whole cycle of violence is so depressing .
How many fewer wars and conflicts would we have if we could abolish religion?
True . Religion has a lot to answer for . If the whole world followed humanism we’d be in a much better place .
Humanism? A dull, boring, 'we are the world' creed. Even Common Worship and 'Shine Jesus Shine' is more interesting with more depth.
People need mystique. A Latin Mass or Evensong in a great cathedral or humanist readings in some dull hall? No contest.
Even the Nuremberg rallies with the torches and fiery oratory would have been more interesting than a humanist event (hence why we need proper religion to ensure the passions don't go in the wrong direction)
This is an extremely perceptive comment and deserves 12 "likes"
but got 1
From me
@HYUFD is a neglected genius at times. the Thomas Chatterton of PB
I have not commented on the latest crisis in the middle east. However I would observe that the Jews think they are the Chosen People of God; and that Hamas believes that killing Jews (and others) is the will of Allah and will lead to Paradise. Who is this idiot called God or Allah?
I don’t know a single person who is anti -Semitic but apparently by gobby in here if you’re pro Palestinian you must be a Jew hater .
The debate becomes very polarized because some can’t accept that you can just simply want a two state solution where both Jews and Palestinians can live in peace .
The whole cycle of violence is so depressing .
How many fewer wars and conflicts would we have if we could abolish religion?
True . Religion has a lot to answer for . If the whole world followed humanism we’d be in a much better place .
Humanism? A dull, boring, 'we are the world' creed. Even Common Worship and 'Shine Jesus Shine' is more interesting with more depth.
People need mystique. A Latin Mass or Evensong in a great cathedral or humanist readings in some dull hall? No contest.
Even the Nuremberg rallies with the torches and fiery oratory would have been more interesting than a humanist event (hence why we need proper religion to ensure the passions don't go in the wrong direction)
This is an extremely perceptive comment and deserves 12 "likes"
Some of us have no god, and no need for a (I agree nonsense) “humanist” replacement. That’s because we have booze, cricket, booze, football, art, and porn.
A point on religion. Most that perpertrate horror in the name of religion are followers of monotheistic faiths not polytheistic. Maybe therefore its not faith thats the issue but monotheism which most have the ideology "there is no god but me"
I am sure the Muslims and Christians facing attacks from the RSS extremists and BJP hardliners would disagree. As would those executed or crucified by the polytheistic Romans (including one JC) or those sacrificed with their hearts taken out and shown in front of their eyes before they were thrown down the pyramid by the polytheistic Aztecs
The grim reality is that humans are pretty good at utter depravity without the encouragement of God or Gods. And it's at least possible that some religious cruelty is restrained a bit, but nowhere near enough, by realisations of Big Guys watching us from above.
We're like trains, once we get on a certain track it's hard to go in another direction without a lot time, effort, or a derailment.
I don’t know a single person who is anti -Semitic but apparently by gobby in here if you’re pro Palestinian you must be a Jew hater .
The debate becomes very polarized because some can’t accept that you can just simply want a two state solution where both Jews and Palestinians can live in peace .
The whole cycle of violence is so depressing .
How many fewer wars and conflicts would we have if we could abolish religion?
True . Religion has a lot to answer for . If the whole world followed humanism we’d be in a much better place .
Humanism? A dull, boring, 'we are the world' creed. Even Common Worship and 'Shine Jesus Shine' is more interesting with more depth.
People need mystique. A Latin Mass or Evensong in a great cathedral or humanist readings in some dull hall? No contest.
Even the Nuremberg rallies with the torches and fiery oratory would have been more interesting than a humanist event (hence why we need proper religion to ensure the passions don't go in the wrong direction)
This is an extremely perceptive comment and deserves 12 "likes"
Some of us have no god, and no need for a (I agree nonsense) “humanist” replacement. That’s because we have booze, cricket, booze, football, art, and porn.
"booze, cricket, booze, football, art, and porn."
I do hope this is written with an ounce of self-awareness
We have imported virulent anti Semitism from abroad, via immigration, and it turns out multiculturalism is a disaster
Does that include the multiculturalism that arose when we imported Jewish refugees fleeing Czarist pogroms at the end of the 19th century, who went on to form distinctive communities with variable degrees of assimilation?
No. They were fine
Churchill had his doubts. Which is why, as a professional soldier he isn’t taking cover behind a plate glass window, in the following picture. But using a brick wall.
I've seen that photo before but I still love it
The hats. The coats
"Look there's an urban insurrection going on round the corner but I absolutely need to wear my top hat and my coat with the Astrakhan lining, thanks"
Bring that look back and the public perception of the Met will go up 20% overnight.
A point on religion. Most that perpertrate horror in the name of religion are followers of monotheistic faiths not polytheistic. Maybe therefore its not faith thats the issue but monotheism which most have the ideology "there is no god but me"
I am sure the Muslims and Christians facing attacks from the RSS extremists and BJP hardliners would disagree. As would those executed or crucified by the polytheistic Romans (including one JC) or those sacrificed with their hearts taken out and shown in front of their eyes before they were thrown down the pyramid by the polytheistic Aztecs
The grim reality is that humans are pretty good at utter depravity without the encouragement of God or Gods. And it's at least possible that some religious cruelty is restrained a bit, but nowhere near enough, by realisations of Big Guys watching us from above.
We're like trains, once we get on a certain track it's hard to go in another direction without a lot time, effort, or a derailment.
Entirely off topic, but tonight I've been watching quite a few early electronic/tape music videos. And this bit of Delia Derbyshire music caught me (first time I've listened to it in about 20 years) :
Also related, and entirely more delightful - an interview before her death on BBC Radio Scotland where she seems entirely delighted to even be remembered :
A point on religion. Most that perpertrate horror in the name of religion are followers of monotheistic faiths not polytheistic. Maybe therefore its not faith thats the issue but monotheism which most have the ideology "there is no god but me"
I am sure the Muslims and Christians facing attacks from the RSS extremists and BJP hardliners would disagree. As would those executed or crucified by the polytheistic Romans (including one JC) or those sacrificed with their hearts taken out and shown in front of their eyes before they were thrown down the pyramid by the polytheistic Aztecs
The grim reality is that humans are pretty good at utter depravity without the encouragement of God or Gods. And it's at least possible that some religious cruelty is restrained a bit, but nowhere near enough, by realisations of Big Guys watching us from above.
We're like trains, once we get on a certain track it's hard to go in another direction without a lot time, effort, or a derailment.
Precisely the problem I mentioned. Polytheists lots of trains running parallel we can wave to each other through the windows. Monotheists....omg those are not real trains they should be on our train. We better derail it so they join us
I don’t know a single person who is anti -Semitic but apparently by gobby in here if you’re pro Palestinian you must be a Jew hater .
The debate becomes very polarized because some can’t accept that you can just simply want a two state solution where both Jews and Palestinians can live in peace .
The whole cycle of violence is so depressing .
How many fewer wars and conflicts would we have if we could abolish religion?
True . Religion has a lot to answer for . If the whole world followed humanism we’d be in a much better place .
Humanism? A dull, boring, 'we are the world' creed. Even Common Worship and 'Shine Jesus Shine' is more interesting with more depth.
People need mystique. A Latin Mass or Evensong in a great cathedral or humanist readings in some dull hall? No contest.
Even the Nuremberg rallies with the torches and fiery oratory would have been more interesting than a humanist event (hence why we need proper religion to ensure the passions don't go in the wrong direction)
It's "Imagine" as a manifesto. If I want moral lessons, they certainly won't be coming from John Lennon.
Hmm ensure the passions don't go in the wrong direction? Really...spanish inquisition, Matthew Hopkins, crusades, to name a few....thats ensuring passions don't go in the wrong direction?
Well at least those events were interesting compared to the yawnfest of a humanist event, the average man on the street also needs something to control their passions and a moral code. That certainly isn't coming from humanism
The uncontrolled passions and lack of a moral coded in Hamas obviously caused by their notable humanism.
I don’t know a single person who is anti -Semitic but apparently by gobby in here if you’re pro Palestinian you must be a Jew hater .
The debate becomes very polarized because some can’t accept that you can just simply want a two state solution where both Jews and Palestinians can live in peace .
The whole cycle of violence is so depressing .
How many fewer wars and conflicts would we have if we could abolish religion?
True . Religion has a lot to answer for . If the whole world followed humanism we’d be in a much better place .
Humanism? A dull, boring, 'we are the world' creed. Even Common Worship and 'Shine Jesus Shine' is more interesting with more depth.
People need mystique. A Latin Mass or Evensong in a great cathedral or humanist readings in some dull hall? No contest.
Even the Nuremberg rallies with the torches and fiery oratory would have been more interesting than a humanist event (hence why we need proper religion to ensure the passions don't go in the wrong direction)
This is an extremely perceptive comment and deserves 12 "likes"
Some of us have no god, and no need for a (I agree nonsense) “humanist” replacement. That’s because we have booze, cricket, booze, football, art, and porn.
"booze, cricket, booze, football, art, and porn."
I do hope this is written with an ounce of self-awareness
All the morality you will ever need is contained in those items.
A point on religion. Most that perpertrate horror in the name of religion are followers of monotheistic faiths not polytheistic. Maybe therefore its not faith thats the issue but monotheism which most have the ideology "there is no god but me"
I am sure the Muslims and Christians facing attacks from the RSS extremists and BJP hardliners would disagree. As would those executed or crucified by the polytheistic Romans (including one JC) or those sacrificed with their hearts taken out and shown in front of their eyes before they were thrown down the pyramid by the polytheistic Aztecs
The grim reality is that humans are pretty good at utter depravity without the encouragement of God or Gods. And it's at least possible that some religious cruelty is restrained a bit, but nowhere near enough, by realisations of Big Guys watching us from above.
We're like trains, once we get on a certain track it's hard to go in another direction without a lot time, effort, or a derailment.
Precisely the problem I mentioned. Polytheists lots of trains running parallel we can wave to each other through the windows. Monotheists....omg those are not real trains they should be on our train. We better derail it so they join us
Atheists no need for any train, just get in a car and take a path of your own rather than following preordained tracks.
I don’t know a single person who is anti -Semitic but apparently by gobby in here if you’re pro Palestinian you must be a Jew hater .
The debate becomes very polarized because some can’t accept that you can just simply want a two state solution where both Jews and Palestinians can live in peace .
The whole cycle of violence is so depressing .
How many fewer wars and conflicts would we have if we could abolish religion?
True . Religion has a lot to answer for . If the whole world followed humanism we’d be in a much better place .
I might have mentioned this before, but when we did Israel-Palestine for A Level politics, our tutor asked us to rank all of the issues in play. I can’t remember them all, but water, land, Jerusalem were in there. I put religion as the hardest issue and didn’t think much of it as it seemed so blindingly obvious. My tutor was not impressed and insisted that religion was not a key part of the problem.
I don’t know a single person who is anti -Semitic but apparently by gobby in here if you’re pro Palestinian you must be a Jew hater .
The debate becomes very polarized because some can’t accept that you can just simply want a two state solution where both Jews and Palestinians can live in peace .
The whole cycle of violence is so depressing .
How many fewer wars and conflicts would we have if we could abolish religion?
True . Religion has a lot to answer for . If the whole world followed humanism we’d be in a much better place .
Humanism? A dull, boring, 'we are the world' creed. Even Common Worship and 'Shine Jesus Shine' is more interesting with more depth.
People need mystique. A Latin Mass or Evensong in a great cathedral or humanist readings in some dull hall? No contest.
Even the Nuremberg rallies with the torches and fiery oratory would have been more interesting than a humanist event (hence why we need proper religion to ensure the passions don't go in the wrong direction)
This is an extremely perceptive comment and deserves 12 "likes"
Some of us have no god, and no need for a (I agree nonsense) “humanist” replacement. That’s because we have booze, cricket, booze, football, art, and porn.
"booze, cricket, booze, football, art, and porn."
I do hope this is written with an ounce of self-awareness
All the morality you will ever need is contained in those items.
I don’t know a single person who is anti -Semitic but apparently by gobby in here if you’re pro Palestinian you must be a Jew hater .
The debate becomes very polarized because some can’t accept that you can just simply want a two state solution where both Jews and Palestinians can live in peace .
The whole cycle of violence is so depressing .
How many fewer wars and conflicts would we have if we could abolish religion?
True . Religion has a lot to answer for . If the whole world followed humanism we’d be in a much better place .
Humanism? A dull, boring, 'we are the world' creed. Even Common Worship and 'Shine Jesus Shine' is more interesting with more depth.
People need mystique. A Latin Mass or Evensong in a great cathedral or humanist readings in some dull hall? No contest.
Even the Nuremberg rallies with the torches and fiery oratory would have been more interesting than a humanist event (hence why we need proper religion to ensure the passions don't go in the wrong direction)
It's "Imagine" as a manifesto. If I want moral lessons, they certainly won't be coming from John Lennon.
Its really not, Lennon wasn't even a humanist.
Humanist ideas have existed since before Socrates and were a key influence in the Renaissance and the Enlightenment.
John Lennon style crap is not what humanist means.
I don't want to spoil the party but I've got a feeling you're both wrong about Lennon; his ideas don't seem bad to me.
Well clearly he's dead now. But whenever I see recordings of him - well, of all the people inthe world there are few I take such an instinctive and instant and visceral dislike to. Smug pious bastard.
Though having said that, I much prefer the Beatles songs which owe more to him than to Paul. And Paul McCartney seems one of the nicest men in pop music.
A point on religion. Most that perpertrate horror in the name of religion are followers of monotheistic faiths not polytheistic. Maybe therefore its not faith thats the issue but monotheism which most have the ideology "there is no god but me"
I am sure the Muslims and Christians facing attacks from the RSS extremists and BJP hardliners would disagree. As would those executed or crucified by the polytheistic Romans (including one JC) or those sacrificed with their hearts taken out and shown in front of their eyes before they were thrown down the pyramid by the polytheistic Aztecs
The grim reality is that humans are pretty good at utter depravity without the encouragement of God or Gods. And it's at least possible that some religious cruelty is restrained a bit, but nowhere near enough, by realisations of Big Guys watching us from above.
We're like trains, once we get on a certain track it's hard to go in another direction without a lot time, effort, or a derailment.
So a supporter of predestination?
No, load of old cobblers, that.
Just a believer in the stubborness of human nature and the reinforcing nature of some actions making it hard to change course. That's not ordained paths (I'm an atheist), just that we point outselves one way and when going 80mph that way slowing down and turning is hard.
The tracks analogy is just because outside factors and limitations mean not all directional options are open to us, but there are still many nodes and hubs to jump on to somewhere new, if we try.
A point on religion. Most that perpertrate horror in the name of religion are followers of monotheistic faiths not polytheistic. Maybe therefore its not faith thats the issue but monotheism which most have the ideology "there is no god but me"
I am sure the Muslims and Christians facing attacks from the RSS extremists and BJP hardliners would disagree. As would those executed or crucified by the polytheistic Romans (including one JC) or those sacrificed with their hearts taken out and shown in front of their eyes before they were thrown down the pyramid by the polytheistic Aztecs
The grim reality is that humans are pretty good at utter depravity without the encouragement of God or Gods. And it's at least possible that some religious cruelty is restrained a bit, but nowhere near enough, by realisations of Big Guys watching us from above.
We're like trains, once we get on a certain track it's hard to go in another direction without a lot time, effort, or a derailment.
Precisely the problem I mentioned. Polytheists lots of trains running parallel we can wave to each other through the windows. Monotheists....omg those are not real trains they should be on our train. We better derail it so they join us
Atheists no need for any train, just get in a car and take a path of your own rather than following preordained tracks.
I don’t know a single person who is anti -Semitic but apparently by gobby in here if you’re pro Palestinian you must be a Jew hater .
The debate becomes very polarized because some can’t accept that you can just simply want a two state solution where both Jews and Palestinians can live in peace .
The whole cycle of violence is so depressing .
How many fewer wars and conflicts would we have if we could abolish religion?
True . Religion has a lot to answer for . If the whole world followed humanism we’d be in a much better place .
Humanism? A dull, boring, 'we are the world' creed. Even Common Worship and 'Shine Jesus Shine' is more interesting with more depth.
People need mystique. A Latin Mass or Evensong in a great cathedral or humanist readings in some dull hall? No contest.
Even the Nuremberg rallies with the torches and fiery oratory would have been more interesting than a humanist event (hence why we need proper religion to ensure the passions don't go in the wrong direction)
This is an extremely perceptive comment and deserves 12 "likes"
Some of us have no god, and no need for a (I agree nonsense) “humanist” replacement. That’s because we have booze, cricket, booze, football, art, and porn.
"booze, cricket, booze, football, art, and porn."
I do hope this is written with an ounce of self-awareness
All the morality you will ever need is contained in those items.
Comments
Have no PB-ers ever traveled around Trump's America? I have. They are all interesting people. The religious and the irreligious, the black white brown and tartan, the fentanyl takers and the celeb Tennessee chefs
They support Trump - in my experience - out of desperation. They see the Woke Democrats as a threat to the essence of America (and I agree). A few really adore Trump but most don't, he is viewed as a necessary bulwark, the one guy who might beat the hated libtards in DC
I have never met an evanglelical American who supports Trump for the reasons cited
It was the result of having multiple pastors tell me, essentially, the same story about quoting the Sermon on the Mount, parenthetically, in their preaching — "turn the other cheek" — [and] to have someone come up after to say, "Where did you get those liberal talking points?" And what was alarming to me is that in most of these scenarios, when the pastor would say, "I'm literally quoting Jesus Christ," the response would not be, "I apologize." The response would be, "Yes, but that doesn't work anymore. That's weak." And when we get to the point where the teachings of Jesus himself are seen as subversive to us, then we're in a crisis.
https://www.npr.org/2023/08/08/1192663920/southern-baptist-convention-donald-trump-christianity
The Wehrmacht Heer and Kriegmarine did have Gott mit uns on their belt buckles.
Lib Dems were quick off the mark and odds on favourite to start with, but once Labour put the effort in it was clear to me that this was a hard slog for the Lib Dems.
I hope the Lib Dems win but if they don't, and I don't think they will, I hope the Tories win. Not out of spite but to show Labour they can't just barge in without risk of giving it to the Tories.
In practice, in the GE, there will be very few mid Beds. But there will be some like Wimbledon, where Lib Dems came second last time that Labour might be tempted to have a go. A loss to the Tories in mid Beds might deter them.
From Wiki:
On 19 December 1933, now with poor eyesight and hard of hearing, he was inspecting a defectively-bedded sleeper on the down through line, when he was struck and killed by a Paddington to Fishguard express, pulled by No. 4085 Berkeley Castle.
Truly, he went the way he'd have wished.
Strange that, as Hamas seemed well pleased with it all at the weekend.
1962 Dorset South and Middlesborough West
1958 Rochdale
In each the pattern is the same - Labour holding steady or dropping a few percent whilst Liberals erode the Conservative vote much more.
I cannot see one Labour victory in which bot Labour and Liberals each gain significant percentage vote share from the Tories. The Lib Dems wins in Littleborough & Saddleworth and Eastleigh in 94/95 are the closest parallels out there to the expected pattern in Mid Beds, but LDs came from second in these.
The SS, who were the force actually created by and from the Nazis, went for 'Mein Ihre Heißt Treue.' They we're also supposed to reject membership of any church as it would have tested their loyalty to Hitler, although in practice most of them were religious.
Hamas is not insane. It is surely evil, but it is not insane. They have just scored the biggest political own-goal in recent history. Slaughtering babies? Shooting pensioners? Raping kidnapped girls and filming it? Mowing down young festival goers? Tearing embryos out of pregnant women and stabbing them??
Sweet merciful Allah, I do not believe this is what they wanted. They wanted a heroic prison break out and a LOT of dead Israeli soldiers = good PR. Instead, by accident, they made more breaches in the wall than they needed and a lot of low level Hamas squaddies, or just basic Jew-hating lads with guns, got out of the enclave - estimates say 1500 - and these kids WERE filled with a hideous bloodlust which ended in the atrocities we see
It is a catastrophe for Hamas. Gaza will now be levelled and they are finished. The world will lament, but let it happen. Hamas is done
If you want to impress the king of Israel, you bring a sack of foreskins.
I think the scale of the Israeli response has really caught them by surprise, as too has the reaction of the rest of the West.
Its not just Hamas who misjudged things:
https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/4561435#Comment_4561435
Hamas has played a blinder. Netanyahu's reputation as pro-Trump, pro-Putin anti-democratic maniac has been glaringly exposed to the world in recent times. Israel won't get a shred of sympathy. In terms of propaganda, Hamas holds all the cards here.
I remember - I may be wrong, I was but a lurker - when he was a sane sensible PB Tory. Then Brexit did this to him. Quite bizarre
If I have got the history wrong then I apologise to @Stark_Dawning
A moleh announces his retirement, and was asked what he had done with all the foreskins collected over his life's work.
He announced that he had collected them all and turned them into a small leather wallet.
"Is that it?" Asked his friend, "I thought there would be more"
The moleh replied "but if you rub it , it turns into a suitcase"
When did he stop being one? 🤨
Postal voters had a 85.5% return rate, with other voters a 72.2% rate.
According to the December 2022 election statistics on the ONS website, Mid Bedfordshire had 90,266 electors.
So if it is close, the GOTV (get out the vote) operation in the next week will be very important.
All the parties will know who their voters are and thus the focus for the last couple of days.
It could be a relatively high vote for a by-election?
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-we-forgot-about-pol-pot/
People need mystique. A Latin Mass or Evensong in a great cathedral or humanist readings in some dull hall? No contest.
Even the Nuremberg rallies with the torches and fiery oratory would have been more interesting than a humanist event (hence why we need proper religion to ensure the passions don't go in the wrong direction)
We don't sell potatoes. We're molehs.
"But there are potatoes in your window."
"What do you think we should have in our window?"
The billionaire businessman, still licking his wounds after a decisive loss in Iowa on Monday, is now crying foul, accusing Ted Cruz of stealing the election and calling for a do-over...
“Ted Cruz didn’t win Iowa, he illegally stole it. That is why all of the polls were so wrong any [sic] why he got more votes than anticipated. Bad!” Trump tweeted Wednesday morning
https://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/trump-cruz-stole-iowa-tweet-deleted-218674
It's such an obvious default reaction it's shocking the majority of GOPers believe it about 2020.
Sir Jeffrey Donaldson, the DUP’s leader, revealed he had opened discussions with the leader of the Labour Party over scrapping the Irish Sea border if they win the next election.
Jesus was Jew-ISH
Haven't you read any Hubbard?
Humanist ideas have existed since before Socrates and were a key influence in the Renaissance and the Enlightenment.
John Lennon style crap is not what humanist means.
The hats. The coats
"Look there's an urban insurrection going on round the corner but I absolutely need to wear my top hat and my coat with the Astrakhan lining, thanks"
The consistency across organised religion and extreme beliefs like communism etc is their insistence on purity and telling people that they must unquestioningly support whatever their leaders tell them on faith.
Monotheistic religions account for probably 99% of deaths caused in wars over religion and terrorism
@HYUFD is a neglected genius at times. the Thomas Chatterton of PB
Talked about not wanting his country to lose its humanity , also thinks Netanyahu will be out in a few months , majority of those polled blame him .
Also a very sad interview with a woman whose parents are being held hostage , both were peace activists .
Newsnight really has been excellent in its coverage.
I do hope this is written with an ounce of self-awareness
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YeCj14mfUk
Also related, and entirely more delightful - an interview before her death on BBC Radio Scotland where she seems entirely delighted to even be remembered :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-Fw5aTz_2I
Though having said that, I much prefer the Beatles songs which owe more to him than to Paul. And Paul McCartney seems one of the nicest men in pop music.
Just a believer in the stubborness of human nature and the reinforcing nature of some actions making it hard to change course. That's not ordained paths (I'm an atheist), just that we point outselves one way and when going 80mph that way slowing down and turning is hard.
The tracks analogy is just because outside factors and limitations mean not all directional options are open to us, but there are still many nodes and hubs to jump on to somewhere new, if we try.