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Can Starmer’s speech turn these figures around? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,161
edited October 2023 in General
Can Starmer’s speech turn these figures around? – politicalbetting.com

(Here are Rishi Sunak's ratings, for comparison)Doing well as PM: -39 netLikeable: -16Competent: -17Decisive: -24Trustworthy: -29Strong: -37https://t.co/cQVO73NC4R

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • All lawyers sparkle.
  • What was the f##king knobhead protesting about?
  • "Protest or Power. That's why we changed our party."
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    What was the f##king knobhead protesting about?

    Couldn't hear what he was saying
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    People's House
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926

    All lawyers sparkle.

    He looked fabulous.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    IanB2 said:

    People's House

    What is that?
  • I understand a protester attacked him

    Frankly that is unacceptable and where was the security

    He is likely to be our next PM and his security should be the same and equal to Sunak

  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    "Protest or Power. That's why we changed our party."

    Superb response – amazing that he came up with it on the hoof.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,630
    edited October 2023

    What was the f##king knobhead protesting about?

    'true democracy is citizen-led' is what he said I think.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727

    All lawyers sparkle.

    You can't polish a turd... but you can roll shower it in glitter? :wink:

    The Protest or Power line was good though.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926

    "Protest or Power. That's why we changed our party."

    Superb response – amazing that he came up with it on the hoof.
    That'll set the conspiracy nuts going.
  • Livestream (others are available)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhJ3AFxflLo
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    Whoops.


  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    RobD said:

    "Protest or Power. That's why we changed our party."

    Superb response – amazing that he came up with it on the hoof.
    That'll set the conspiracy nuts going.
    I thought that!
  • OT for Moneyball stats fans, the Statsbomb conference is also being livestreamed now.
  • What was the f##king knobhead protesting about?

    'true democracy is citizen-led' is what he said I think.
    Sounds like one of the Jezza cult.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    From Sky News:

    A Tory MP was caught on CCTV ripping a security camera off the home he rents to a single mum he has been battling to evict for months. Gary Streeter, who has been an MP since 1992, has been trying to get mother-of-one Layla Williams out from a bungalow on his farm. Layla, 38, initially moved in to look after Streeter's flock of horses in 2018 and house-sit while he and his wife were away after she started working for him two years earlier. But the mum - who admits she hasn't paid rent since January - claims since he asked her and her 12-year-old son to move out, his actions has left them both fearful. She had already installed security cameras at her home on the farm in Plympton, Devon, - and has now captured footage of him "angrily" ripping them down. Other videos she has recorded include him attempting to bash the cameras with a stick - and returning in what she said was a "panic" to try and fix it after dumping in the bushes. Footage also shows Streeter letting himself in through her gate - and looking in through the windows - including while Layla said she and her son were sleeping.
  • sbjme19sbjme19 Posts: 194
    Terrible security, that man could have injured him.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,660
    Whats happened to SKS

    Shiny dandruff
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    I've just turned on the broadcast, and my goodness, those are the biggest flakes of dandruff I've ever seen...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    Could have been worse, it could have been one of the Stop the War (sic) mob applauding the bombing of Israel.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    ....
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    edited October 2023
    sbjme19 said:

    Terrible security, that man could have injured him.

    It's impossible to stop protests like that if someone is determined to do them. What are you going to do? Search thousands of people for possession of glitter?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,660
    sbjme19 said:

    Terrible security, that man could have injured him.

    What man?
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    I do like Marie Le Conte.

    "and yet when *I* turn up on stage covered in glitter then start removing my clothes, etc etc"

    https://twitter.com/youngvulgarian/status/1711730540808675711
  • IanB2 said:

    From Sky News:

    A Tory MP was caught on CCTV ripping a security camera off the home he rents to a single mum he has been battling to evict for months. Gary Streeter, who has been an MP since 1992, has been trying to get mother-of-one Layla Williams out from a bungalow on his farm. Layla, 38, initially moved in to look after Streeter's flock of horses in 2018 and house-sit while he and his wife were away after she started working for him two years earlier. But the mum - who admits she hasn't paid rent since January - claims since he asked her and her 12-year-old son to move out, his actions has left them both fearful. She had already installed security cameras at her home on the farm in Plympton, Devon, - and has now captured footage of him "angrily" ripping them down. Other videos she has recorded include him attempting to bash the cameras with a stick - and returning in what she said was a "panic" to try and fix it after dumping in the bushes. Footage also shows Streeter letting himself in through her gate - and looking in through the windows - including while Layla said she and her son were sleeping.

    A "flock of horses"?

    I fear they are burying the lead here, which is "Veteran Tory MP successfully breeds flying horses - Sunak hails yet another dividend from HS2 cancellation".
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582

    sbjme19 said:

    Terrible security, that man could have injured him.

    It's impossible to stop protests like that if someone is determined to do them. What are you going to do search thousands of people for possession of glitter?
    No, but you’re supposed to have proper security close enough to the VIP.
  • Just like the eco-fascist stunts, the media should totally ignore this.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582

    Just like the eco-fascist stunts, the media should totally ignore this.

    Of course

  • sbjme19 said:

    Terrible security, that man could have injured him.

    It's impossible to stop protests like that if someone is determined to do them. What are you going to do? Search thousands of people for possession of glitter?
    Surely the point is that he should really have been intercepted before he stormed onto the stage, rather than than he shouldn't have been allowed in the venue with a pocketful of glitter?
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813
    edited October 2023
    This is a good speech. Completely wipes the floor with Sunak’s weird HS2 Hail Mary turn.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,138
    edited October 2023
    IanB2 said:

    From Sky News:

    A Tory MP was caught on CCTV ripping a security camera off the home he rents to a single mum he has been battling to evict for months. Gary Streeter, who has been an MP since 1992, has been trying to get mother-of-one Layla Williams out from a bungalow on his farm. Layla, 38, initially moved in to look after Streeter's flock of horses in 2018 and house-sit while he and his wife were away after she started working for him two years earlier. But the mum - who admits she hasn't paid rent since January - claims since he asked her and her 12-year-old son to move out, his actions has left them both fearful. She had already installed security cameras at her home on the farm in Plympton, Devon, - and has now captured footage of him "angrily" ripping them down. Other videos she has recorded include him attempting to bash the cameras with a stick - and returning in what she said was a "panic" to try and fix it after dumping in the bushes. Footage also shows Streeter letting himself in through her gate - and looking in through the windows - including while Layla said she and her son were sleeping.

    It's quite meta - caught on cctv ripping down a cctv camera.

    He's going to - correctly - get his nuts roasted for that, if she goes for him under harassment laws and the Protection from Eviction Act 1977.

    He could get himself a criminal record, and be barred from renting out property.

    He's a f*cking idiot - she has made the mistake of stopping paying the rent many months ago, so he would get (and should already have got) an eviction by normal legal process.

    (Comments subject to special terms or law which may apply if it is a job-related or agricultural tenancy, or peculiar terms of the tenancy.)
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051

    sbjme19 said:

    Terrible security, that man could have injured him.

    It's impossible to stop protests like that if someone is determined to do them. What are you going to do? Search thousands of people for possession of glitter?
    LOTO has proper security from the Met. No one unplanned should get to do that. No telling what they might have on them.

    Mind you it’s the Met Diplomatic Protection Squad so they were probably off strip searching the female half of the audience.
  • sbjme19 said:

    Terrible security, that man could have injured him.

    It's impossible to stop protests like that if someone is determined to do them. What are you going to do? Search thousands of people for possession of glitter?
    The stage should have been secured by his personal security which I assume he has

    It is not the headlines he would want and he understandably looked scared

    He dealt with it well and good for him
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    edited October 2023

    sbjme19 said:

    Terrible security, that man could have injured him.

    It's impossible to stop protests like that if someone is determined to do them. What are you going to do? Search thousands of people for possession of glitter?
    Surely the point is that he should really have been intercepted before he stormed onto the stage, rather than than he shouldn't have been allowed in the venue with a pocketful of glitter?
    It's extremely hard to do, unless you have guards within three feet of the speaker in all directions – which ends up looking heavy handed. Thought SKS dealt with it extremely well.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813
    Light on policy so far though. Suppose he’s still going with the hopey-changey stuff.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051

    sbjme19 said:

    Terrible security, that man could have injured him.

    It's impossible to stop protests like that if someone is determined to do them. What are you going to do? Search thousands of people for possession of glitter?
    Surely the point is that he should really have been intercepted before he stormed onto the stage, rather than than he shouldn't have been allowed in the venue with a pocketful of glitter?
    It's extremely hard to do, unless you have guards within three feet of the speaker in all directions – which ends up looking heavy handed. Thought SKS dealt with it extremely well.
    On stage it’s isn’t that hard. He deserves better. He’s likely to become PM and he is at risk.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    Nice handling of the incident - a dig at Jezza and his "protest" party.

    And then a crappy cringey joke about his wife.

    Win some, lose some, I suppose.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    All fine stuff...but very little of the 'how'
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582

    sbjme19 said:

    Terrible security, that man could have injured him.

    It's impossible to stop protests like that if someone is determined to do them. What are you going to do? Search thousands of people for possession of glitter?
    Surely the point is that he should really have been intercepted before he stormed onto the stage, rather than than he shouldn't have been allowed in the venue with a pocketful of glitter?
    It's extremely hard to do, unless you have guards within three feet of the speaker in all directions – which ends up looking heavy handed. Thought SKS dealt with it extremely well.
    It’s relatively easy to design a venue both such that there are limited routes from the crowd to the stage (think orchestra pit) , and that security can hide behind curtains but with a good view of the VIP, while being out of sight of most of the crowd and the TV cameras.

    How many of these stunts now?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,818
    edited October 2023
    MattW said:

    IanB2 said:

    From Sky News:

    A Tory MP was caught on CCTV ripping a security camera off the home he rents to a single mum he has been battling to evict for months. Gary Streeter, who has been an MP since 1992, has been trying to get mother-of-one Layla Williams out from a bungalow on his farm. Layla, 38, initially moved in to look after Streeter's flock of horses in 2018 and house-sit while he and his wife were away after she started working for him two years earlier. But the mum - who admits she hasn't paid rent since January - claims since he asked her and her 12-year-old son to move out, his actions has left them both fearful. She had already installed security cameras at her home on the farm in Plympton, Devon, - and has now captured footage of him "angrily" ripping them down. Other videos she has recorded include him attempting to bash the cameras with a stick - and returning in what she said was a "panic" to try and fix it after dumping in the bushes. Footage also shows Streeter letting himself in through her gate - and looking in through the windows - including while Layla said she and her son were sleeping.

    It's quite meta - caught on cctv ripping down a cctv camera.

    He's going to - correctly - get his nuts roasted for that, if she goes for him under harassment laws and the Protection from Eviction Act 1977.

    He could get himself a criminal record, and be barred from renting out property.

    He's a f*cking idiot - she has made the mistake of stopping paying the rent many months ago, so he would get (and should already have got) an eviction by normal legal process.

    (Comments subject to special terms or law which may apply if it is a job-related or agricultural tenancy, or peculiar terms of the tenancy.)
    Candid Camera snapshots here, and some startling statements here, including it was all down to MMG policy on covid.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12604807/Tory-MP-wants-disagreed-Government-Covid-response.html
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    Very impressed with Starmer so far and I’m not his biggest fan .
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    Should single mothers in Worthing be able to afford a wanky holiday in the Lake District?
  • I love it when a young kid gets to meet his football heroes.


  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051
    Sandpit said:

    sbjme19 said:

    Terrible security, that man could have injured him.

    It's impossible to stop protests like that if someone is determined to do them. What are you going to do? Search thousands of people for possession of glitter?
    Surely the point is that he should really have been intercepted before he stormed onto the stage, rather than than he shouldn't have been allowed in the venue with a pocketful of glitter?
    It's extremely hard to do, unless you have guards within three feet of the speaker in all directions – which ends up looking heavy handed. Thought SKS dealt with it extremely well.
    It’s relatively easy to design a venue both such that there are limited routes from the crowd to the stage (think orchestra pit) , and that security can hide behind curtains but with a good view of the VIP, while being out of sight of most of the crowd and the TV cameras.

    How many of these stunts now?
    The Met needs a complete clear out. But we’ve known that for months and it’s necessary for all sorts of reasons. Strip out the national stuff, focus the Met on London, and bring in new blood at all ranks.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    edited October 2023

    Light on policy so far though. Suppose he’s still going with the hopey-changey stuff.

    Policy, beyond the basics of social democracy and a few inexpensive offers, is not the issue. What he has to sell - and he is trying - is that 'jam tomorrow' is the only option Labour can offer to the hard pressed poor for now, its emptiness to be filled with pieties and hope from a government that is on your side.

    He isn't going to close foodbanks, let alone solve stuff, soon. Hence the emphasis on 'a decade'. And that we are a morally better version than the other lot. He's doing OK with a tough deal of cards.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011
    FPT: I had my first mince pie of the season yesterday. A big display of them in our local Co-op.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,747
    Interesting that Starmer is talking about decade of national renewal. Already trying to frame the election of 2029. FWIW I think the thread header is likely to be correct. He's not and much loved and could soon become pretty unpopular. Much will depend on what the Tories do in opposition. The Tory problem is their terrible ratings with women voters. If they respond with a female leader and strong female shadow cabinet - lots of options with Mordaunt, Badenoch , Donellan, Keegan, Braverman - and focus on nitty gritty issues, they could get back into contention quite quickly.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051

    Interesting that Starmer is talking about decade of national renewal. Already trying to frame the election of 2029. FWIW I think the thread header is likely to be correct. He's not and much loved and could soon become pretty unpopular. Much will depend on what the Tories do in opposition. The Tory problem is their terrible ratings with women voters. If they respond with a female leader and strong female shadow cabinet - lots of options with Mordaunt, Badenoch , Donellan, Keegan, Braverman - and focus on nitty gritty issues, they could get back into contention quite quickly.

    The issue for Starmer will be if he looks like he’s won, and everyone projects hopes on him, but actually he’s got a very slim majority or no majority and he can’t get things done. He doesn’t have the charisma to overcome that, and the Tories are likely to pick someone capable of selling the Boris “get XYZ done” line.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    biggles said:

    Interesting that Starmer is talking about decade of national renewal. Already trying to frame the election of 2029. FWIW I think the thread header is likely to be correct. He's not and much loved and could soon become pretty unpopular. Much will depend on what the Tories do in opposition. The Tory problem is their terrible ratings with women voters. If they respond with a female leader and strong female shadow cabinet - lots of options with Mordaunt, Badenoch , Donellan, Keegan, Braverman - and focus on nitty gritty issues, they could get back into contention quite quickly.

    The issue for Starmer will be if he looks like he’s won, and everyone projects hopes on him, but actually he’s got a very slim majority or no majority and he can’t get things done. He doesn’t have the charisma to overcome that, and the Tories are likely to pick someone capable of selling the Boris “get XYZ done” line.
    Call it the Theresa May problem…
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    sbjme19 said:

    Terrible security, that man could have injured him.

    What man?
    Now we know what you look like BJO.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    Starmers going to have to take on the NIMBYs.

    Houses, Houses, houses,,,thats all that matters, and he's right.
  • FPT: I had my first mince pie of the season yesterday. A big display of them in our local Co-op.

    Our local Co-op is closing down, which is a bloody nuisance because they make the best mince pies imo (and lost jobs, community etc).
  • Sandpit said:

    Just like the eco-fascist stunts, the media should totally ignore this.

    Of course

    And of course we will shortly be getting the Mail articles about how Tarquin went to some posh private school and how much his parents house (that he still lives in) is worth....
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,138
    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    IanB2 said:

    From Sky News:

    A Tory MP was caught on CCTV ripping a security camera off the home he rents to a single mum he has been battling to evict for months. Gary Streeter, who has been an MP since 1992, has been trying to get mother-of-one Layla Williams out from a bungalow on his farm. Layla, 38, initially moved in to look after Streeter's flock of horses in 2018 and house-sit while he and his wife were away after she started working for him two years earlier. But the mum - who admits she hasn't paid rent since January - claims since he asked her and her 12-year-old son to move out, his actions has left them both fearful. She had already installed security cameras at her home on the farm in Plympton, Devon, - and has now captured footage of him "angrily" ripping them down. Other videos she has recorded include him attempting to bash the cameras with a stick - and returning in what she said was a "panic" to try and fix it after dumping in the bushes. Footage also shows Streeter letting himself in through her gate - and looking in through the windows - including while Layla said she and her son were sleeping.

    It's quite meta - caught on cctv ripping down a cctv camera.

    He's going to - correctly - get his nuts roasted for that, if she goes for him under harassment laws and the Protection from Eviction Act 1977.

    He could get himself a criminal record, and be barred from renting out property.

    He's a f*cking idiot - she has made the mistake of stopping paying the rent many months ago, so he would get (and should already have got) an eviction by normal legal process.

    (Comments subject to special terms or law which may apply if it is a job-related or agricultural tenancy, or peculiar terms of the tenancy.)
    Candid Camera snapshots here, and some startling statements here, including it was all down to MMG policy on covid.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12604807/Tory-MP-wants-disagreed-Government-Covid-response.html
    He's bang to rights on the harassment, and she could do a Civil Claim as well.

    The basic principle is that a tenanted property belongs to the tenant for the duration of the tenancy, and they have a right to quiet enjoyment - which is why they can legally change locks etc and deny the landlord access.

    He should just have followed the legal eviction process and not gone near it whilst that was proceeding. He didn't and he will have to accept any consequences for his actions - LLs harassing tenants get zero tolerance from anyone, including Magistrates and District Judges.

    What is MMG?

    Played correctly, this is another scandal for Rishi.
  • For all Starmer talks about workers, it all sounds a bit middle class with emphasis on home ownership rather than social housing.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051

    Starmers going to have to take on the NIMBYs.

    Houses, Houses, houses,,,thats all that matters, and he's right.

    I think we can see the LibDem niche for the election. Not Tory but no to house building, all wrapped up in environment language. Unless they are operating around students in which case all student loans and net zero.
  • King Abdullah II of Jordan in coordination with the Egyptian Government has reportedly ordered the Delivery of Humanitarian Aid to the Gaza Strip through the Rafah Border Cross; however the Israeli Defense Force is continuing to state that any Supply Trucks that attempt to enter the Gaza Strip through Egypt will be Destroyed.
  • On Starmer's ratings and prospects I think they only confirm the view that the public have little faith in any of them and whilst Starmer is the next PM in waiting the problems facing the country will overwhelm him or indeed anyone else
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    biggles said:

    Interesting that Starmer is talking about decade of national renewal. Already trying to frame the election of 2029. FWIW I think the thread header is likely to be correct. He's not and much loved and could soon become pretty unpopular. Much will depend on what the Tories do in opposition. The Tory problem is their terrible ratings with women voters. If they respond with a female leader and strong female shadow cabinet - lots of options with Mordaunt, Badenoch , Donellan, Keegan, Braverman - and focus on nitty gritty issues, they could get back into contention quite quickly.

    The issue for Starmer will be if he looks like he’s won, and everyone projects hopes on him, but actually he’s got a very slim majority or no majority and he can’t get things done. He doesn’t have the charisma to overcome that, and the Tories are likely to pick someone capable of selling the Boris “get XYZ done” line.
    The Tories are likely to pick one or two headcases first, as HY has been telling us for ages.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,618
    Starmer's 'decade' is modest compared to Tony Blair's conference speech the year before the 1997 election when he spoke about preparing for 'a thousand years'.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355

    "Protest or Power. That's why we changed our party."

    Superb response – amazing that he came up with it on the hoof.
    I imagine it's something he's had to say a lot to people asking him in private to be bolder. He probably repeats it in his sleep.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051
    edited October 2023

    On Starmer's ratings and prospects I think they only confirm the view that the public have little faith in any of them and whilst Starmer is the next PM in waiting the problems facing the country will overwhelm him or indeed anyone else

    Yup. It’s the 1970s. Starmer will be saying and doing exactly what Rishi would, because there’s a polite consensus and no room for manoeuvre without breaking it.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,818
    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    IanB2 said:

    From Sky News:

    A Tory MP was caught on CCTV ripping a security camera off the home he rents to a single mum he has been battling to evict for months. Gary Streeter, who has been an MP since 1992, has been trying to get mother-of-one Layla Williams out from a bungalow on his farm. Layla, 38, initially moved in to look after Streeter's flock of horses in 2018 and house-sit while he and his wife were away after she started working for him two years earlier. But the mum - who admits she hasn't paid rent since January - claims since he asked her and her 12-year-old son to move out, his actions has left them both fearful. She had already installed security cameras at her home on the farm in Plympton, Devon, - and has now captured footage of him "angrily" ripping them down. Other videos she has recorded include him attempting to bash the cameras with a stick - and returning in what she said was a "panic" to try and fix it after dumping in the bushes. Footage also shows Streeter letting himself in through her gate - and looking in through the windows - including while Layla said she and her son were sleeping.

    It's quite meta - caught on cctv ripping down a cctv camera.

    He's going to - correctly - get his nuts roasted for that, if she goes for him under harassment laws and the Protection from Eviction Act 1977.

    He could get himself a criminal record, and be barred from renting out property.

    He's a f*cking idiot - she has made the mistake of stopping paying the rent many months ago, so he would get (and should already have got) an eviction by normal legal process.

    (Comments subject to special terms or law which may apply if it is a job-related or agricultural tenancy, or peculiar terms of the tenancy.)
    Candid Camera snapshots here, and some startling statements here, including it was all down to MMG policy on covid.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12604807/Tory-MP-wants-disagreed-Government-Covid-response.html
    He's bang to rights on the harassment, and she could do a Civil Claim as well.

    The basic principle is that a tenanted property belongs to the tenant for the duration of the tenancy, and they have a right to quiet enjoyment - which is why they can legally change locks etc and deny the landlord access.

    He should just have followed the legal eviction process and not gone near it whilst that was proceeding. He didn't and he will have to accept any consequences for his actions - LLs harassing tenants get zero tolerance from anyone, including Magistrates and District Judges.

    What is MMG?

    Played correctly, this is another scandal for Rishi.
    Sorry - MMG was a typo for HMG!
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    Not just Finland<->Estonia gas pipeline damaged, but also a comms cable.

    Russian ships in area recently.

    Cue @Leon about how it's someone else...
  • Starmer's 'decade' is modest compared to Tony Blair's conference speech the year before the 1997 election when he spoke about preparing for 'a thousand years'.

    There will be an election shortly....
    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2007/09/labour-majority-increase
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    Sandpit said:

    Just like the eco-fascist stunts, the media should totally ignore this.

    Of course

    And of course we will shortly be getting the Mail articles about how Tarquin went to some posh private school and how much his parents house (that he still lives in) is worth....
    Ha! Yes, chance might be a fine thing.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    Starmer making a pitch straight for the centre ground.

    Imagine Corbyn saying Tory voters....we want you....
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,263
    I tried to watch Starmer. It's literally impossible. He's so boring and nasal it is intolerable
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011

    FPT: I had my first mince pie of the season yesterday. A big display of them in our local Co-op.

    Our local Co-op is closing down, which is a bloody nuisance because they make the best mince pies imo (and lost jobs, community etc).
    Our local Costa closed down, and the site has now become a twee tearoom.

    If this is a good thing or not, I'm not sure.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    "Protest or Power. That's why we changed our party."

    Superb response – amazing that he came up with it on the hoof.
    I imagine it's something he's had to say a lot to people asking him in private to be bolder. He probably repeats it in his sleep.
    Nevertheless, impressive work pulling it out of the locker at the perfect moment.

    Kudos due.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572

    On Starmer's ratings and prospects I think they only confirm the view that the public have little faith in any of them and whilst Starmer is the next PM in waiting the problems facing the country will overwhelm him or indeed anyone else

    I'm not so negative. If you want real problems facing a country, see Ukraine or Israel. We're not in a brilliant situation, perhaps not even a good one, but certainly not a bad or terrible one. And small changes - and particularly political agreement on long-term solutions - can soon set us on a different course.

    But that's not politically easy, and it'll be easier for a Starmer government to kick some of the issues into the long grass.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582

    Starmers going to have to take on the NIMBYs.

    Houses, Houses, houses,,,thats all that matters, and he's right.

    If he can actually come up with a genuine plan for houses, houses, and houses, then fair play to him.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051

    Not just Finland<->Estonia gas pipeline damaged, but also a comms cable.

    Russian ships in area recently.

    Cue @Leon about how it's someone else...

    It’s a good job the world is really stable and NATO/Russian troops/jets aren’t close to east other in European or Middle Eastern war zones, or there would be a real risk of accidental escalation after this sort of this. Especially if Russia’s Iranian chums were linked to heh another conflict that was brewing.

    It’s all feeling a bit… global.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,987
    edited October 2023
    Housing is a huge issue. Tackling productivity is another that hasn't been addressed since before the recession 2008.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,138
    edited October 2023
    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    IanB2 said:

    From Sky News:

    A Tory MP was caught on CCTV ripping a security camera off the home he rents to a single mum he has been battling to evict for months. Gary Streeter, who has been an MP since 1992, has been trying to get mother-of-one Layla Williams out from a bungalow on his farm. Layla, 38, initially moved in to look after Streeter's flock of horses in 2018 and house-sit while he and his wife were away after she started working for him two years earlier. But the mum - who admits she hasn't paid rent since January - claims since he asked her and her 12-year-old son to move out, his actions has left them both fearful. She had already installed security cameras at her home on the farm in Plympton, Devon, - and has now captured footage of him "angrily" ripping them down. Other videos she has recorded include him attempting to bash the cameras with a stick - and returning in what she said was a "panic" to try and fix it after dumping in the bushes. Footage also shows Streeter letting himself in through her gate - and looking in through the windows - including while Layla said she and her son were sleeping.

    It's quite meta - caught on cctv ripping down a cctv camera.

    He's going to - correctly - get his nuts roasted for that, if she goes for him under harassment laws and the Protection from Eviction Act 1977.

    He could get himself a criminal record, and be barred from renting out property.

    He's a f*cking idiot - she has made the mistake of stopping paying the rent many months ago, so he would get (and should already have got) an eviction by normal legal process.

    (Comments subject to special terms or law which may apply if it is a job-related or agricultural tenancy, or peculiar terms of the tenancy.)
    Candid Camera snapshots here, and some startling statements here, including it was all down to MMG policy on covid.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12604807/Tory-MP-wants-disagreed-Government-Covid-response.html
    He's bang to rights on the harassment, and she could do a Civil Claim as well.

    The basic principle is that a tenanted property belongs to the tenant for the duration of the tenancy, and they have a right to quiet enjoyment - which is why they can legally change locks etc and deny the landlord access.

    He should just have followed the legal eviction process and not gone near it whilst that was proceeding. He didn't and he will have to accept any consequences for his actions - LLs harassing tenants get zero tolerance from anyone, including Magistrates and District Judges.

    What is MMG?

    Played correctly, this is another scandal for Rishi.
    Sorry - MMG was a typo for HMG!
    Such disagreement of course has nothing to do with anything, so is entirely irrelevant. I'm sure you agree on that :smile: .

    Tenancy law works - as we all know - on fairly objective and fairly clear criteria, with Courts there to make judgements.

    "I disagree with my tenant about X" doesn't mean a lot ! As it doesn't as an excuse for hitting someone over the head with a beer bottle.

    The harassment is a course of action, so he can't plead "moment of madness"; if he's called to account it would be a fine, perhaps compensation, or maybe a community punishment or suspended sentence. Unless the police go for a formal caution or community resolution.

    Personally, I hope she really goes for him, and he gets what he deserves. On this particular sort of issue - bad behaviour by landlords - I am a hanger and flogger.

    His best action now, as 9 months ago, would be to offer her a cash settlement to relinquish the tenancy.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    biggles said:

    Starmers going to have to take on the NIMBYs.

    Houses, Houses, houses,,,thats all that matters, and he's right.

    I think we can see the LibDem niche for the election. Not Tory but no to house building, all wrapped up in environment language. Unless they are operating around students in which case all student loans and net zero.
    No to house building, with thousands of activists waving placards.

    Then coalition negotiations with Starmer and his ‘houses houses houses’ pledge, and it’s tuition fees all over again…
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067

    All lawyers sparkle.

    All that glitters is not polled ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    edited October 2023
    (FPT)
    LDLF said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    LDLF said:

    Leon said:

    IF Starmer actually does this, and gets rid of the Barratt style redbrick boxes blighting our fair land, I will vote for him TOMORROW

    "Sir Keir Starmer will pledge to build Georgian-style townhouses in urban areas and a string of new towns as he sets out plans for a decade in power."

    Guidance will specify a focus on “gentle urban development” emulating five-storey townhouses built during the 18th and 19th centuries."

    - Times £££

    YES!

    There would be few things more satisfying than for the Corbusians to witness their final defeat at the hand of, of all things, a self-described Socialist government. It would be the final defeat of the Modern movement's creepy mid-20th Century utopianism.
    By all means let Jonathan Meades, Stephen Bayley and Alain de Botton live in blighted concrete bomb shelters if they want; yobs like me want a bit of ornament in our buildings.
    Georgian Neoclassicism is very agreeable and appealing, though if Sir Keir had really wanted my pupils to dilate, he'd have pledged to make those buildings Gothic Revival. Perhaps that would have been too divisive.

    On the Sunak vs Starmer ratings: one trick that Sunak has rather bizarrely missed is to set himself against Truss. He predicted exactly what would happen, did not serve in her ministry (not that she'd have asked him), and came to power precisely because his prediction came true. He could contrast this against Starmer serving Corbyn up until the bitter end, and only discovering the man was racist and loathsome when it was personally politically expedient to do so.
    The only reason I can find for Sunak not to do this is so as not to upset the grassroots of his own party - a sign of weakness.
    Is Meades that much a of a Corbusian?
    Meades made an entire documentary series paying tribute to Brutalism ('Bunkers, Brutalism and Bloodymindedness'), and singled out Georgian architecture as particularly vapid.

    I agree with him to a certain extent that the Georgian style (and NeoClassicism in general) is rarely used imaginatively, but a more essential factor in good architecture would seem to me to be appeal.
    Agree with him or not (Blimey, he's 76 ! - just checked.), the personal taste of a few isn't the point.
    This is worth a read.

    Unlike nearly all other arts, architecture is inherently public and shared. That means that buildings should be designed to be agreeable – easy to like – not to be unpopular works of genius.
    https://worksinprogress.co/issue/making-architecture-easy
    ...I believe that the ‘traditionalist’ framing is indeed a mistake, and that there is no reason to favour traditional styles per se. But there are important reasons why we should favour some architectural styles over others – reasons that are special to architecture, and that set it apart from music, literature, painting or film. Architecture is a public art, a vernacular art, and a background art: it is created by a huge range of people, and experienced involuntarily by an even wider one. This means that we need architectural styles that are as accessible as possible, to the full range of people who live with what we build, and to the full range of builders who create it. Some ‘traditional’ styles might well be useful in achieving this, but it is not their being traditional that matters: any style with broad and deep appeal will do just as well..
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    Did Starmer just imply that it is right that trades are looked done on? His dad should not have been disrespected for being a tool maker. It seems to me that Starmer took the wrong lesson from that experience.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,818
    Sandpit said:

    biggles said:

    Starmers going to have to take on the NIMBYs.

    Houses, Houses, houses,,,thats all that matters, and he's right.

    I think we can see the LibDem niche for the election. Not Tory but no to house building, all wrapped up in environment language. Unless they are operating around students in which case all student loans and net zero.
    No to house building, with thousands of activists waving placards.

    Then coalition negotiations with Starmer and his ‘houses houses houses’ pledge, and it’s tuition fees all over again…
    With some very interesting implications, if they need Scottish and Welsh MPs to win English legislation, depending on the numbers. Ditto tuition fees again ...
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005
    WTAF. Absolutely barbaric.

    “The Israeli soldiers discovered babies with heads cut off”

    Hamas beheaded babies.

    https://x.com/HenMazzig/status/1711732906412884432?s=20

  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051
    edited October 2023
    All in though, Sunak managed to leave conference with the message that he wants to stop a thing (albeit with the possibility of doing some other things instead, and noting that many never wanted the thing in the first place); whereas Starmer’s message is he wants to DO a thing.

    I think active language and the idea of something happening wins in politics. See the simple beauty of “get Brexit done” and ignoring all nuance.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,818
    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    IanB2 said:

    From Sky News:

    A Tory MP was caught on CCTV ripping a security camera off the home he rents to a single mum he has been battling to evict for months. Gary Streeter, who has been an MP since 1992, has been trying to get mother-of-one Layla Williams out from a bungalow on his farm. Layla, 38, initially moved in to look after Streeter's flock of horses in 2018 and house-sit while he and his wife were away after she started working for him two years earlier. But the mum - who admits she hasn't paid rent since January - claims since he asked her and her 12-year-old son to move out, his actions has left them both fearful. She had already installed security cameras at her home on the farm in Plympton, Devon, - and has now captured footage of him "angrily" ripping them down. Other videos she has recorded include him attempting to bash the cameras with a stick - and returning in what she said was a "panic" to try and fix it after dumping in the bushes. Footage also shows Streeter letting himself in through her gate - and looking in through the windows - including while Layla said she and her son were sleeping.

    It's quite meta - caught on cctv ripping down a cctv camera.

    He's going to - correctly - get his nuts roasted for that, if she goes for him under harassment laws and the Protection from Eviction Act 1977.

    He could get himself a criminal record, and be barred from renting out property.

    He's a f*cking idiot - she has made the mistake of stopping paying the rent many months ago, so he would get (and should already have got) an eviction by normal legal process.

    (Comments subject to special terms or law which may apply if it is a job-related or agricultural tenancy, or peculiar terms of the tenancy.)
    Candid Camera snapshots here, and some startling statements here, including it was all down to MMG policy on covid.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12604807/Tory-MP-wants-disagreed-Government-Covid-response.html
    He's bang to rights on the harassment, and she could do a Civil Claim as well.

    The basic principle is that a tenanted property belongs to the tenant for the duration of the tenancy, and they have a right to quiet enjoyment - which is why they can legally change locks etc and deny the landlord access.

    He should just have followed the legal eviction process and not gone near it whilst that was proceeding. He didn't and he will have to accept any consequences for his actions - LLs harassing tenants get zero tolerance from anyone, including Magistrates and District Judges.

    What is MMG?

    Played correctly, this is another scandal for Rishi.
    Sorry - MMG was a typo for HMG!
    Such disagreement of course has nothing to do with anything, so is entirely irrelevant. I'm sure you agree on that :smile: .

    Tenancy law works - as we all know - on fairly objective and fairly clear criteria, with Courts there to make judgements.

    "I disagree with my tenant about X" doesn't mean a lot ! As it doesn't as an excuse for hitting someone over the head with a beer bottle.

    The harassment is a course of action, so he can't plead "moment of madness"; if he's called to account it would be a fine, perhaps compensation, or maybe a community punishment or suspended sentence. Unless the police go for a formal caution or community resolution.

    Personally, I hope she really goes for him, and he gets what he deserves. On this particular sort of issue - bad behaviour by landlords - I am a hanger and flogger.

    His best action now, as 9 months ago, would be to offer her a cash settlement to relinquish the tenancy.
    Interesting! I had no idea of the implications. And nor do many people, I presume.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    edited October 2023

    Sandpit said:

    Just like the eco-fascist stunts, the media should totally ignore this.

    Of course

    And of course we will shortly be getting the Mail articles about how Tarquin went to some posh private school and how much his parents house (that he still lives in) is worth....
    Oh of course.

    I don’t personally have a problem with such political protest, it’s part of long and noble tradition. No-one was hurt or inconvenienced, with no damage done except to the reputation of the SKS security team, who should have bundled him off the stage well before he got close to their VIP.

    Very different to blocking a public road, causing damage to property, or forcing the cancellation of a sporting event.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    Contrast Starmer to Sunak - very different offers I think. Sunak failed to capture much of the “change” message, but I think Starmer has done that well in his speech
  • glwglw Posts: 9,906
    AlistairM said:

    WTAF. Absolutely barbaric.

    “The Israeli soldiers discovered babies with heads cut off”

    Hamas beheaded babies.

    https://x.com/HenMazzig/status/1711732906412884432?s=20

    Some of the stories coming out from places liberated by the IDF are as bad as anything I've ever read before. If they are true I would imagine that Israel will settle for nothing less than the complete elimination of Hamas no matter what the cost.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011
    Well unless the 1.5 million homes can all be built on brownfield sites...


    ...bollocks to that.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    AlistairM said:

    WTAF. Absolutely barbaric.

    “The Israeli soldiers discovered babies with heads cut off”

    Hamas beheaded babies.

    https://x.com/HenMazzig/status/1711732906412884432?s=20

    If this stuff is confirmed, then Hamas has gone full on death cult.
  • Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Just like the eco-fascist stunts, the media should totally ignore this.

    Of course

    And of course we will shortly be getting the Mail articles about how Tarquin went to some posh private school and how much his parents house (that he still lives in) is worth....
    Oh of course.

    I don’t personally have a problem with such political protest, it’s part of long and noble tradition. No-one was hurt or inconvenienced, with no damage done except to the reputation of the SKS security team, who should have bundled him off the stage well before he got close to their VIP.

    Very different to blocking a public road, causing damage to property, or forcing the cancellation of a sporting event.
    Anyone know what glitterman was protesting against (or for)?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    edited October 2023
    Rishi top story on LBC news.

    All that glitters is not gold.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    Basically Sunak what we can’t do . Starmer about what we can . He’s no Tony Blair but I thought he did well.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,138
    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    IanB2 said:

    From Sky News:

    A Tory MP was caught on CCTV ripping a security camera off the home he rents to a single mum he has been battling to evict for months. Gary Streeter, who has been an MP since 1992, has been trying to get mother-of-one Layla Williams out from a bungalow on his farm. Layla, 38, initially moved in to look after Streeter's flock of horses in 2018 and house-sit while he and his wife were away after she started working for him two years earlier. But the mum - who admits she hasn't paid rent since January - claims since he asked her and her 12-year-old son to move out, his actions has left them both fearful. She had already installed security cameras at her home on the farm in Plympton, Devon, - and has now captured footage of him "angrily" ripping them down. Other videos she has recorded include him attempting to bash the cameras with a stick - and returning in what she said was a "panic" to try and fix it after dumping in the bushes. Footage also shows Streeter letting himself in through her gate - and looking in through the windows - including while Layla said she and her son were sleeping.

    It's quite meta - caught on cctv ripping down a cctv camera.

    He's going to - correctly - get his nuts roasted for that, if she goes for him under harassment laws and the Protection from Eviction Act 1977.

    He could get himself a criminal record, and be barred from renting out property.

    He's a f*cking idiot - she has made the mistake of stopping paying the rent many months ago, so he would get (and should already have got) an eviction by normal legal process.

    (Comments subject to special terms or law which may apply if it is a job-related or agricultural tenancy, or peculiar terms of the tenancy.)
    Candid Camera snapshots here, and some startling statements here, including it was all down to MMG policy on covid.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12604807/Tory-MP-wants-disagreed-Government-Covid-response.html
    He's bang to rights on the harassment, and she could do a Civil Claim as well.

    The basic principle is that a tenanted property belongs to the tenant for the duration of the tenancy, and they have a right to quiet enjoyment - which is why they can legally change locks etc and deny the landlord access.

    He should just have followed the legal eviction process and not gone near it whilst that was proceeding. He didn't and he will have to accept any consequences for his actions - LLs harassing tenants get zero tolerance from anyone, including Magistrates and District Judges.

    What is MMG?

    Played correctly, this is another scandal for Rishi.
    Sorry - MMG was a typo for HMG!
    Such disagreement of course has nothing to do with anything, so is entirely irrelevant. I'm sure you agree on that :smile: .

    Tenancy law works - as we all know - on fairly objective and fairly clear criteria, with Courts there to make judgements.

    "I disagree with my tenant about X" doesn't mean a lot ! As it doesn't as an excuse for hitting someone over the head with a beer bottle.

    The harassment is a course of action, so he can't plead "moment of madness"; if he's called to account it would be a fine, perhaps compensation, or maybe a community punishment or suspended sentence. Unless the police go for a formal caution or community resolution.

    Personally, I hope she really goes for him, and he gets what he deserves. On this particular sort of issue - bad behaviour by landlords - I am a hanger and flogger.

    His best action now, as 9 months ago, would be to offer her a cash settlement to relinquish the tenancy.
    Interesting! I had no idea of the implications. And nor do many people, I presume.
    I think it may be less complex, but not dissimilar, in Scotland - as up there the laws were revised comprehensively fairly recently.

    In England there are something over 100 Acts of Parliament which apply to tenancies in England. It is complex.

    The law's attitude to mistreatment of tenants can be quite astringent if it goes down that route.

    I complain about some things - especially incompetent and unnecessarily expensive implementation, but strong protection of tenants from harassment is spot on.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,263
    edited October 2023
    AlistairM said:

    WTAF. Absolutely barbaric.

    “The Israeli soldiers discovered babies with heads cut off”

    Hamas beheaded babies.

    https://x.com/HenMazzig/status/1711732906412884432?s=20

    But it's OK, because they (probably) didn't rape anyone, as that is "unIslamic", as ISIS consistently proved
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813

    On Starmer's ratings and prospects I think they only confirm the view that the public have little faith in any of them and whilst Starmer is the next PM in waiting the problems facing the country will overwhelm him or indeed anyone else

    I'm not so negative. If you want real problems facing a country, see Ukraine or Israel. We're not in a brilliant situation, perhaps not even a good one, but certainly not a bad or terrible one. And small changes - and particularly political agreement on long-term solutions - can soon set us on a different course.

    But that's not politically easy, and it'll be easier for a Starmer government to kick some of the issues into the long grass.
    Personally I think Starmer has chanced upon the right message here. People do want to hear an upbeat message of hope. People are ready for that change. We have been in the doldrums for a while now. We are ready for the sign that things are turning a corner.

    Whether Labour can deliver on that - that’s the million dollar question. As a GE narrative though, they've got their finger on the pulse.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011

    AlistairM said:

    WTAF. Absolutely barbaric.

    “The Israeli soldiers discovered babies with heads cut off”

    Hamas beheaded babies.

    https://x.com/HenMazzig/status/1711732906412884432?s=20

    If this stuff is confirmed, then Hamas has gone full on death cult.
    1,500 lads on a one-way trip across the border. Kill as many as they can before their fast-track to paradise.

    Fecking evil nutters.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,660
    AlistairM said:

    WTAF. Absolutely barbaric.

    “The Israeli soldiers discovered babies with heads cut off”

    Hamas beheaded babies.

    https://x.com/HenMazzig/status/1711732906412884432?s=20

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrocity_propaganda

    They'll have bite marks next.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,913
    AlistairM said:

    WTAF. Absolutely barbaric.

    “The Israeli soldiers discovered babies with heads cut off”

    Hamas beheaded babies.

    https://x.com/HenMazzig/status/1711732906412884432?s=20

    If true, it's horrific.
    Did you fact check before posting?
    https://antzml.wordpress.com/2011/02/25/the-bayonet-baby-effect/
  • AlistairM said:

    WTAF. Absolutely barbaric.

    “The Israeli soldiers discovered babies with heads cut off”

    Hamas beheaded babies.

    https://x.com/HenMazzig/status/1711732906412884432?s=20

    If this stuff is confirmed, then Hamas has gone full on death cult.
    1,500 lads on a one-way trip across the border. Kill as many as they can before their fast-track to paradise.

    Fecking evil nutters.
    That is part of the problem: they really do believe God is on their side, and literally will take them to paradise.
This discussion has been closed.