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LAB extends lead with Opinium – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,727
edited October 2023 in General
LAB extends lead with Opinium – politicalbetting.com

Rishi Sunak has seen a small boost in his ratings off the back of the Conservative Party Conference, sitting at -24% up from -28% last week.Currently 27% approve (+3) of the job he is doing vs 51% (-1) disapprove. pic.twitter.com/0odqU7pGPv

Read the full story here

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  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,336
    Regression to the mean...
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,336
    Watching Ireland and Scotland is like actually watching international level attackers, unlike the England performance earlier.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,730
    Is this some huge secetly organised THING?

    ורמי הביטחון יזהירו בעוד כמה דקות את שרי הקבינט: מזהים ניסיון של חמאס לרתום את ערביי ישראל למלחמה ולאחד את הזירות כמו בשומר החומות

    Translated from Hebrew

    The security officials will warn the cabinet ministers in a few minutes: they recognize an attempt by Hamas to harness the Israeli Arabs to war and unite the arenas as in the Guardian of the Walls



    https://x.com/yaronavraham/status/1710730854639538595?s=20
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,730
    Ireland's defence is incredible
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,773
    Leon said:

    Is this some huge secetly organised THING?

    ורמי הביטחון יזהירו בעוד כמה דקות את שרי הקבינט: מזהים ניסיון של חמאס לרתום את ערביי ישראל למלחמה ולאחד את הזירות כמו בשומר החומות

    Translated from Hebrew

    The security officials will warn the cabinet ministers in a few minutes: they recognize an attempt by Hamas to harness the Israeli Arabs to war and unite the arenas as in the Guardian of the Walls



    https://x.com/yaronavraham/status/1710730854639538595?s=20

    Hamas are trying to replay the Tet offensive. They will lose the battle but hope they win the war.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,336
    edited October 2023
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Really distressing film of a captured Israeli girl brutalised in a way which I am not going to describe. You can certainly guess. So upsetting. Always always it is women, children, the vulnerable who suffer.

    Time to switch off the news I think.

    I saw it. And it is disgusting

    Also this:


    "Noa was partying in the south of Israel in a peace music festival when Hams terrorists kidnapped her and dragged her from Israel into Gaza.

    Noa is held hostage by Hamas.

    She could be your daughter, sister, friend.

    #BringBackOurFamily"


    https://x.com/Israel/status/1710727073252163925?s=20

    Judging by what we have seen so far, she will certainly be gangraped and then likely killed
    You have just made me feel physically sick

    I recall the moment after the Arafat peace accord, that we were the first coach of international travellers to enter Jericho and as our Jewish guide embraced the Palestinian soldier on the walls a spontaneous round of applause broke out as it was a very special moment as peace seemed possible

    I have a very heavy heart tonight
    Not going to link to them, but...

    "This is the type of posts we see now on social media. Many of the participants of an outdoors party were victims of shooting or abduction."

    Basically images of lots of young people who were at a festival apparently.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,798
    Leon said:

    Ireland's defence is incredible

    Better than... no, too soon.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,336
    edited October 2023
    Leon said:

    Ireland's defence is incredible

    Totally different level of match. England remind of their football team 15 years ago, miles behind the level of the genuinely elite teams across the world.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,336
    edited October 2023
    We will turn all the places where Hamas is organized, hiding - into islands of ruins. Residents of Gaza, get out of there now because we will act everywhere and with all our strength - Netanyahu

    Doesn't sound like flattening a few building is going to cut it as a response.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,036
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Watching Ireland and Scotland is like actually watching international level attackers, unlike the England performance earlier.

    Scotland's decision to kick to the corner earlier was just terrible though.
    Ireland defense not at all tired as it's the start of the match and only 5 points behind
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,730
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Leon said:

    Ireland's defence is incredible

    Totally different level of match. England remind of their football team 15 years ago, miles behind the level of the genuinely elite teams across the world.
    Yes, Ireland, SA and France are at a different level, at the moment, to all other teams (even NZ)

    But it wouldn't need THAT much for England to graduate. They have the talent, they need the coaching
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,730
    OK that's Scotland done
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,730
    This "crunch" game is over after 26 minutes
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,336
    Leon said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Leon said:

    Ireland's defence is incredible

    Totally different level of match. England remind of their football team 15 years ago, miles behind the level of the genuinely elite teams across the world.
    Yes, Ireland, SA and France are at a different level, at the moment, to all other teams (even NZ)

    But it wouldn't need THAT much for England to graduate. They have the talent, they need the coaching
    And of course Andy Farrell and Shaun Edwards are coaches for Ireland and France....instead England have Eddie Jones mini-me.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,623
    Leon said:

    OK that's Scotland done

    They launched an offensive into Israel?
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,730
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Leon said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Leon said:

    Ireland's defence is incredible

    Totally different level of match. England remind of their football team 15 years ago, miles behind the level of the genuinely elite teams across the world.
    Yes, Ireland, SA and France are at a different level, at the moment, to all other teams (even NZ)

    But it wouldn't need THAT much for England to graduate. They have the talent, they need the coaching
    And of course Andy Farrell and Shaun Edwards are coaches for Ireland and France....instead England have Eddie Jones mini-me.
    I know, Its insane. Probably the two best coaches in the world are English - but not coaching England
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,543
    Leon said:

    Ireland's defence is incredible

    It is. Scotland’s attack was superb with multiple phases of play but there was just no way through.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,798
    Is there any team in the world that would have qualified from a group also containing Ireland and South Africa? I think even France and NZ would have struggled.
  • Options
    CatManCatMan Posts: 2,817
    FPT:
    Malmesbury said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    In Britain, the Foreign Office has reportedly argued against efforts to blacklist Tehran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, despite the MI5 director-general saying there had been 10 Iranian plots to kidnap or murder British residents in 2022.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/07/islamist-anti-semitism-israels-darkest-since-yom-kippur-war/

    The Foreign Office is called that because it serves the purpose of representing the interests of Foreigners.

    The Siege Of Chiswick Business Park continues.
    With apologies to Dura_Ace

    https://youtu.be/dUMaUXk3T48?si=ae2rVWX1CBS5Ra2u&t=107
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,623
    On topic:

    Broken, sleazy, HS2-wrecking Tories on the slide!
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,730
    edited October 2023
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Ireland's defence is incredible

    It is. Scotland’s attack was superb with multiple phases of play but there was just no way through.
    It really wasn't superb, sorry. It was toothless and clueless. Ireland are jolly good but not unbeatable. Scotland had no idea what to do
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,730
    lol. Ireland are gonna put 50 on Scotland
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,336
    edited October 2023
    Erhhhh VAR.....
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,051
    Leon said:

    Is this some huge secetly organised THING?

    ורמי הביטחון יזהירו בעוד כמה דקות את שרי הקבינט: מזהים ניסיון של חמאס לרתום את ערביי ישראל למלחמה ולאחד את הזירות כמו בשומר החומות

    Translated from Hebrew

    The security officials will warn the cabinet ministers in a few minutes: they recognize an attempt by Hamas to harness the Israeli Arabs to war and unite the arenas as in the Guardian of the Walls



    https://x.com/yaronavraham/status/1710730854639538595?s=20

    Translated from Hebrew.
    But not into English apparently.
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,051
    edited October 2023
    Leon said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Leon said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Leon said:

    Ireland's defence is incredible

    Totally different level of match. England remind of their football team 15 years ago, miles behind the level of the genuinely elite teams across the world.
    Yes, Ireland, SA and France are at a different level, at the moment, to all other teams (even NZ)

    But it wouldn't need THAT much for England to graduate. They have the talent, they need the coaching
    And of course Andy Farrell and Shaun Edwards are coaches for Ireland and France....instead England have Eddie Jones mini-me.
    I know, Its insane. Probably the two best coaches in the world are English - but not coaching England
    They aren't English.
    They are Wiganers.
    That's a Century of RFU prejudice and discrimination reaping its karmic harvest.
    Ha! Ha!
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,336
    edited October 2023
    New - Palestinian terrorist groups launch another volley of rockets against Israel from Gaza

    The intelligence failure is enormous that they have 1000s and 1000s of these rockets ready to go.
  • Options
    El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,904
    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Is this some huge secetly organised THING?

    ורמי הביטחון יזהירו בעוד כמה דקות את שרי הקבינט: מזהים ניסיון של חמאס לרתום את ערביי ישראל למלחמה ולאחד את הזירות כמו בשומר החומות

    Translated from Hebrew

    The security officials will warn the cabinet ministers in a few minutes: they recognize an attempt by Hamas to harness the Israeli Arabs to war and unite the arenas as in the Guardian of the Walls



    https://x.com/yaronavraham/status/1710730854639538595?s=20

    Translated from Hebrew.
    But not into English apparently.
    "Guardian of the Walls" is a reference to the 2021 campaign. Nothing more than that.

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-efforts-against-hamas-to-be-known-as-operation-guardian-of-the-walls/
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,260
    @Mexicanpete please explain
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,543
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    New - Palestinian terrorist groups launch another volley of rockets against Israel from Gaza

    The intelligence failure is enormous that they have 1000s and 1000s of these rockets ready to go.

    A point I made earlier. I find it bewildering that this has happened under Mossad’s noses. They used to be the best.
  • Options
    londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,250
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    On topic:

    Broken, sleazy, HS2-wrecking Tories on the slide!

    Be calmer vote Starmer 😈
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,623
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    New - Palestinian terrorist groups launch another volley of rockets against Israel from Gaza

    The intelligence failure is enormous that they have 1000s and 1000s of these rockets ready to go.

    But they'll run out eventually, right?
  • Options
    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,341
    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Ireland's defence is incredible

    It is. Scotland’s attack was superb with multiple phases of play but there was just no way through.
    It really wasn't superb, sorry. It was toothless and clueless. Ireland are jolly good but not unbeatable. Scotland had no idea what to do
    How can you tell Ireland's defence is incredible then if the attacks are that crap?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,239
    Well at least the Conservative voteshare hasn't gone down after their conference and Rishi's ratings are slightly up from a Tory point of view.

    Otherwise main movement seems to be LD, Green and RefUK to Labour
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,260
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Leon said:

    Ireland's defence is incredible

    Totally different level of match. England remind of their football team 15 years ago, miles behind the level of the genuinely elite teams across the world.
    You might be right about this. But given you slag off all England teams in all sports all the time, we should take your analysis with a pinch of salt.
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    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,798
    HYUFD said:

    Well at least the Conservative voteshare hasn't gone down after their conference and Rishi's ratings are slightly up from a Tory point of view.

    Otherwise main movement seems to be LD, Green and RefUK to Labour

    Rutherglen is a huge boost to Labour. It'll consolidate a lot of anti-Tory votes under their banner now that people can see others flocking in that direction.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,730
    Stark_Dawning said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Ireland's defence is incredible

    It is. Scotland’s attack was superb with multiple phases of play but there was just no way through.
    It really wasn't superb, sorry. It was toothless and clueless. Ireland are jolly good but not unbeatable. Scotland had no idea what to do
    How can you tell Ireland's defence is incredible then if the attacks are that crap?
    Because Scotland barely got anywhere, and mainly went backwards. That's a mixture of fine defence and poor attack. Scotland had 16 phases at one point, and did nothing with them
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    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,260
    Despite being the subject of the thread header, for some bizarre reason I reckon this poll will get a lot less attention than the last Opinium, particularly from @Mexicanpete @Big_G_NorthWales and @bigjohnowls . I don’t know why, I am struggling to put my finger on it.
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    londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,250
    HYUFD said:

    Well at least the Conservative voteshare hasn't gone down after their conference and Rishi's ratings are slightly up from a Tory point of view.

    Otherwise main movement seems to be LD, Green and RefUK to Labour

    Maybe CON sub 150 seats? 😡😡
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    TimSTimS Posts: 9,971
    Fieldwork 4-6 October, so still in the first flush of the announcements and a bit before.
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    SniptSnipt Posts: 24
    edited October 2023
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    We will turn all the places where Hamas is organized, hiding - into islands of ruins. Residents of Gaza, get out of there now because we will act everywhere and with all our strength - Netanyahu

    Doesn't sound like flattening a few building is going to cut it as a response.

    Dunno where that quote comes from, but he's telling residents of Gaza to "get out of there now"? Where to? They've got nowhere to go.

    Logic-chopping analysts will doubtless assure us that he only means they should remove themselves from military buildings and camps, places where Hamas is organised and hiding.
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    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,798
    Anabobazina said:

    Despite being the subject of the thread header, for some bizarre reason I reckon this poll will get a lot less attention than the last Opinium, particularly from @Mexicanpete @Big_G_NorthWales and @bigjohnowls . I don’t know why, I am struggling to put my finger on it.

    They'll say "Israel" but you know and I know that even without this shit today they'd be quiet about it.
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    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,192
    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Well at least the Conservative voteshare hasn't gone down after their conference and Rishi's ratings are slightly up from a Tory point of view.

    Otherwise main movement seems to be LD, Green and RefUK to Labour

    Rutherglen is a huge boost to Labour. It'll consolidate a lot of anti-Tory votes under their banner now that people can see others flocking in that direction.
    A boost to Labour in Scotland because more unionist voters will see them as a credible alternative to SNats to vote tactically.

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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,730
    hahahahahahah
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,623
    londonpubman said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    On topic:

    Broken, sleazy, HS2-wrecking Tories on the slide!

    Be calmer vote Starmer 😈
    KEEP Calmer! :lol:
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    kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,005
    Farooq said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Despite being the subject of the thread header, for some bizarre reason I reckon this poll will get a lot less attention than the last Opinium, particularly from @Mexicanpete @Big_G_NorthWales and @bigjohnowls . I don’t know why, I am struggling to put my finger on it.

    They'll say "Israel" but you know and I know that even without this shit today they'd be quiet about it.
    Because, of course, absolutely nothing has happened today that might be more important than which technocrat gets to govern a stable, safe country where nobody is in fear of bombs raining down on them.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,730
    A humiliated Scotland lashing out. I half expect Humza Yousaf to wade in with a Hamas-branded handbag
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    CatManCatMan Posts: 2,817
    Lol, it's Mike Bassett England Manager

    https://youtu.be/j-fcMS5x3Mw?si=hCRmbW7wpo5G2aqg
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    Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,551
    On that Israeli intelligence failure: Here’s a stray thought: Perhaps one of the reasons for it was Edward Snowden’s theft of America’s secrets. I have been reading Edward Jay Epstein’s book on the theft and he concludes that Snowden definitely made us — and our friends and allies — more vulnerable to terrorists by revealing many of our secrets.
    https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/547346/how-america-lost-its-secrets-by-edward-jay-epstein/


  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,798
    kyf_100 said:

    Farooq said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Despite being the subject of the thread header, for some bizarre reason I reckon this poll will get a lot less attention than the last Opinium, particularly from @Mexicanpete @Big_G_NorthWales and @bigjohnowls . I don’t know why, I am struggling to put my finger on it.

    They'll say "Israel" but you know and I know that even without this shit today they'd be quiet about it.
    Because, of course, absolutely nothing has happened today that might be more important than which technocrat gets to govern a stable, safe country where nobody is in fear of bombs raining down on them.
    I didn't say it was more important. Obviously it isn't. I said that even without this they'd have kept quiet about this. It's all there in my post really, not that hard to parse.
  • Options
    SniptSnipt Posts: 24
    edited October 2023
    Last nine Opinum polls, Lab leads:
    18%, 15%, 17%, 14%, 15%, 14%, 15%, 10% ,13%
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    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,192
    Snipt said:

    Last six Opinum polls, Lab leads:
    14%, 15%, 14%, 15%, 10% ,13%

    In which direction?

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    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,341
    Leon said:

    A humiliated Scotland lashing out. I half expect Humza Yousaf to wade in with a Hamas-branded handbag

    Why did the bloke who shoved the other bloke over advertising hoardings not get sanctioned?
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    kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,005
    Farooq said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Farooq said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Despite being the subject of the thread header, for some bizarre reason I reckon this poll will get a lot less attention than the last Opinium, particularly from @Mexicanpete @Big_G_NorthWales and @bigjohnowls . I don’t know why, I am struggling to put my finger on it.

    They'll say "Israel" but you know and I know that even without this shit today they'd be quiet about it.
    Because, of course, absolutely nothing has happened today that might be more important than which technocrat gets to govern a stable, safe country where nobody is in fear of bombs raining down on them.
    I didn't say it was more important. Obviously it isn't. I said that even without this they'd have kept quiet about this. It's all there in my post really, not that hard to parse.
    I understand, but I felt the subtext was clear. I apologise if my post came off as an insult, it wasn't intended that way.
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    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,260
    londonpubman said:

    HYUFD said:

    Well at least the Conservative voteshare hasn't gone down after their conference and Rishi's ratings are slightly up from a Tory point of view.

    Otherwise main movement seems to be LD, Green and RefUK to Labour

    Maybe CON sub 150 seats? 😡😡
    Will you be voting Labour pubman? It’s a broad church mate
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    SniptSnipt Posts: 24
    geoffw said:

    Snipt said:

    Last six Opinum polls, Lab leads:
    14%, 15%, 14%, 15%, 10% ,13%

    In which direction?

    Chronologically: earliest first.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,543
    Stark_Dawning said:

    Leon said:

    A humiliated Scotland lashing out. I half expect Humza Yousaf to wade in with a Hamas-branded handbag

    Why did the bloke who shoved the other bloke over advertising hoardings not get sanctioned?
    You think the rules of rugby are comprehensible to mere mortals?

    Interesting.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,730
    edited October 2023
    Remarkably, this is quite a dull game now. An easy win for Ireland. Scotland entirely bereft of ideas
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,623
    geoffw said:

    Snipt said:

    Last six Opinum polls, Lab leads:
    14%, 15%, 14%, 15%, 10% ,13%

    In which direction?

    old to new.
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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,071
    londonpubman said:

    HYUFD said:

    Well at least the Conservative voteshare hasn't gone down after their conference and Rishi's ratings are slightly up from a Tory point of view.

    Otherwise main movement seems to be LD, Green and RefUK to Labour

    Maybe CON sub 150 seats? 😡😡
    It's possible that the Trussites will see a electoral wipeout as a good thing allowing them to rebuild a Thatcherite party from the ashes.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,773
    Leon said:

    Remarkably, this is quite a dull game now. An easy win for Ireland. Scotland entirely bereft of ideas

    Much like Keir Starmer
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,154
    Alanbrooke said:

    Leon said:

    Is this some huge secetly organised THING?

    ורמי הביטחון יזהירו בעוד כמה דקות את שרי הקבינט: מזהים ניסיון של חמאס לרתום את ערביי ישראל למלחמה ולאחד את הזירות כמו בשומר החומות

    Translated from Hebrew

    The security officials will warn the cabinet ministers in a few minutes: they recognize an attempt by Hamas to harness the Israeli Arabs to war and unite the arenas as in the Guardian of the Walls



    https://x.com/yaronavraham/status/1710730854639538595?s=20

    Hamas are trying to replay the Tet offensive. They will lose the battle but hope they win the war.
    Israel doesn't have the option of going home if it gets war weary.
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,187
    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Is this some huge secetly organised THING?

    ורמי הביטחון יזהירו בעוד כמה דקות את שרי הקבינט: מזהים ניסיון של חמאס לרתום את ערביי ישראל למלחמה ולאחד את הזירות כמו בשומר החומות

    Translated from Hebrew

    The security officials will warn the cabinet ministers in a few minutes: they recognize an attempt by Hamas to harness the Israeli Arabs to war and unite the arenas as in the Guardian of the Walls



    https://x.com/yaronavraham/status/1710730854639538595?s=20

    Translated from Hebrew.
    But not into English apparently.
    Operation "Guardian of the Walls" was the Israeli defense forces (IDF)'s response to the "Sword of Jerusalem", Hamas's attack on Israel in May 2021 using rocket bombardment and raids. The current action can be thought of as a repeat of that action.

    The intent of Hamas then was to "inflict losses, disrupt daily life, terrorize the population, and project power among Palestinian and regional audiences". The tweet (oh for fuck's sake) mentioned above mentions another goal, namely "harness the Israeli Arabs to war and unite the arenas" - unify the anti-Israeli forces in the region in intent, and possibly under the Hamas banner.

    The intent of Israel then was to neutralise the bombardment and raids by force, using a variety of methods ranging from deception to bombing.

    Whilst Hamas's goals of death and power projection might be achieved, the persuasive power of Twitter and the undisciplined actions of their own forces will undermine the propaganda effort. If you want to persuade the world or regional powers of the righteousness of the act, the videos seen today will not aid that goal.

    https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/sword-jerusalem-vs-guardian-walls-gaza-and-next-lebanon-war
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    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,798
    Alanbrooke said:

    Leon said:

    Remarkably, this is quite a dull game now. An easy win for Ireland. Scotland entirely bereft of ideas

    Much like Keir Starmer
    · Labour: 42% (+3)
    · Conservative: 29% (n/c)
    · Liberal Democrat: 11% (-1)
    · SNP: 3% (nc)
    · Plaid Cymru: 0% (-1)
    · Green: 6% (-1)
    · Reform UK: 6% (-1)
    · Other: 2% (nc)

    though
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,117
    There’s videos on X of large columns of Israeli tanks heading south
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    CatManCatMan Posts: 2,817
    Gallowgate said:

    There’s videos on X of large columns of Israeli tanks heading south

    Not sure why you want to share your porn viewing on here, but ok.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,997
    another_richard said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    Leon said:

    Is this some huge secetly organised THING?

    ורמי הביטחון יזהירו בעוד כמה דקות את שרי הקבינט: מזהים ניסיון של חמאס לרתום את ערביי ישראל למלחמה ולאחד את הזירות כמו בשומר החומות

    Translated from Hebrew

    The security officials will warn the cabinet ministers in a few minutes: they recognize an attempt by Hamas to harness the Israeli Arabs to war and unite the arenas as in the Guardian of the Walls



    https://x.com/yaronavraham/status/1710730854639538595?s=20

    Hamas are trying to replay the Tet offensive. They will lose the battle but hope they win the war.
    Israel doesn't have the option of going home if it gets war weary.
    Neither do the Palestinians.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,730
    Feel sorry for Finn Russell. A generational talent stuck in a decent but middling team
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,222
    I see Celtic fans covered themselves in glory today:



  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,623
    edited October 2023
    Alanbrooke said:

    Leon said:

    Remarkably, this is quite a dull game now. An easy win for Ireland. Scotland entirely bereft of ideas

    Much like Keir Starmer
    Labour will fight, and Labour will be right!
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,139
    DavidL said:

    Stark_Dawning said:

    Leon said:

    A humiliated Scotland lashing out. I half expect Humza Yousaf to wade in with a Hamas-branded handbag

    Why did the bloke who shoved the other bloke over advertising hoardings not get sanctioned?
    You think the rules of rugby are comprehensible to mere mortals?

    Interesting.
    I'm even more impressed by your forensic skills, with such a grievous handicap to bear in the Edinburger legal world!
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    BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 18,822
    another_richard said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    Leon said:

    Is this some huge secetly organised THING?

    ורמי הביטחון יזהירו בעוד כמה דקות את שרי הקבינט: מזהים ניסיון של חמאס לרתום את ערביי ישראל למלחמה ולאחד את הזירות כמו בשומר החומות

    Translated from Hebrew

    The security officials will warn the cabinet ministers in a few minutes: they recognize an attempt by Hamas to harness the Israeli Arabs to war and unite the arenas as in the Guardian of the Walls



    https://x.com/yaronavraham/status/1710730854639538595?s=20

    Hamas are trying to replay the Tet offensive. They will lose the battle but hope they win the war.
    Israel doesn't have the option of going home if it gets war weary.
    Precisely.

    Israel is literally fighting for its very survival. It is an existential threat.

    Just because they're strong enough to defend themselves doesn't make the threat any less real, or any less existential.

    America could pack its bags and go home, Israel already is and its still being attacked.
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,166
    The Tories desperately need two wins at the by-elections on 19th October.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,288
    @JohnRentoul

    Boris Johnson’s former wife Marina Wheeler is to be Labour’s ‘whistleblower tsar’ – via
    @_katedevlin
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,773
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    Leon said:

    Remarkably, this is quite a dull game now. An easy win for Ireland. Scotland entirely bereft of ideas

    Much like Keir Starmer
    Labour will fight, Labour will be right!
    Keir the muppet is Tony's sock puppet
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,997
    viewcode said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Is this some huge secetly organised THING?

    ורמי הביטחון יזהירו בעוד כמה דקות את שרי הקבינט: מזהים ניסיון של חמאס לרתום את ערביי ישראל למלחמה ולאחד את הזירות כמו בשומר החומות

    Translated from Hebrew

    The security officials will warn the cabinet ministers in a few minutes: they recognize an attempt by Hamas to harness the Israeli Arabs to war and unite the arenas as in the Guardian of the Walls



    https://x.com/yaronavraham/status/1710730854639538595?s=20

    Translated from Hebrew.
    But not into English apparently.
    Operation "Guardian of the Walls" was the Israeli defense forces (IDF)'s response to the "Sword of Jerusalem", Hamas's attack on Israel in May 2021 using rocket bombardment and raids. The current action can be thought of as a repeat of that action.

    The intent of Hamas then was to "inflict losses, disrupt daily life, terrorize the population, and project power among Palestinian and regional audiences". The tweet (oh for fuck's sake) mentioned above mentions another goal, namely "harness the Israeli Arabs to war and unite the arenas" - unify the anti-Israeli forces in the region in intent, and possibly under the Hamas banner.
    No the Israeli Arabs are the 21% of Israeli citizens that are Arabs. Clearly whoever wrote the tweet considers them the enemy within, despite the absence of evidence.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,730
    tlg86 said:

    I see Celtic fans covered themselves in glory today:



    Sinn Fein are doing the same on Twitter

    What is wrong with them? The idea that the Irish or the Catholic Scots are oppressed like the Palestinians is as juvenile as it is embarrassing. This is Ireland which is entirely free and stable and has got rich from parasitic corporation tax rates while relying on the British to defend them. Get tae fuck
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    novanova Posts: 525
    edited October 2023
    Snipt said:

    Last nine Opinum polls, Lab leads:
    18%, 15%, 17%, 14%, 15%, 14%, 15%, 10% ,13%

    It was always going to head back up from 10%.

    The general pattern has been the same for months; whenever the leads drop into the teens, Mike Smithson writes the column about "have we seen the back of 20% Labour leads", and comments about the possibility of a single digit lead, and there's an immediate bounce back up.

    So long as Mike keeps writing, the Tories are toast.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,187
    edited October 2023
    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Is this some huge secetly organised THING?

    ורמי הביטחון יזהירו בעוד כמה דקות את שרי הקבינט: מזהים ניסיון של חמאס לרתום את ערביי ישראל למלחמה ולאחד את הזירות כמו בשומר החומות

    Translated from Hebrew

    The security officials will warn the cabinet ministers in a few minutes: they recognize an attempt by Hamas to harness the Israeli Arabs to war and unite the arenas as in the Guardian of the Walls



    https://x.com/yaronavraham/status/1710730854639538595?s=20

    Translated from Hebrew.
    But not into English apparently.
    Operation "Guardian of the Walls" was the Israeli defense forces (IDF)'s response to the "Sword of Jerusalem", Hamas's attack on Israel in May 2021 using rocket bombardment and raids. The current action can be thought of as a repeat of that action.

    The intent of Hamas then was to "inflict losses, disrupt daily life, terrorize the population, and project power among Palestinian and regional audiences". The tweet (oh for fuck's sake) mentioned above mentions another goal, namely "harness the Israeli Arabs to war and unite the arenas" - unify the anti-Israeli forces in the region in intent, and possibly under the Hamas banner.
    No the Israeli Arabs are the 21% of Israeli citizens that are Arabs. Clearly whoever wrote the tweet considers them the enemy within, despite the absence of evidence.
    Yes that's what I meant - the tweeter considered "the Israeli Arabs" as "anti-Israeli forces"

    [EDIT: what did they mean by "arenas" - is this what we'd call "theatres", the place where the fighting is done?]
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,730
    This is now a total, mortifying rout of Scotland
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,255
    Scott_xP said:

    @JohnRentoul

    Boris Johnson’s former wife Marina Wheeler is to be Labour’s ‘whistleblower tsar’ – via
    @_katedevlin

    A clever barrister. But one with fuck all experience of whistleblowing investigations.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,623
    Leon said:

    This is now a total, mortifying rout of Scotland

    They ran out of rockets?
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,399
    Leon said:

    tlg86 said:

    I see Celtic fans covered themselves in glory today:



    Sinn Fein are doing the same on Twitter

    What is wrong with them? The idea that the Irish or the Catholic Scots are oppressed like the Palestinians is as juvenile as it is embarrassing. This is Ireland which is entirely free and stable and has got rich from parasitic corporation tax rates while relying on the British to defend them. Get tae fuck
    They should take a leaf out of your guys’ book.


  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,773
    Leon said:

    tlg86 said:

    I see Celtic fans covered themselves in glory today:



    Sinn Fein are doing the same on Twitter

    What is wrong with them? The idea that the Irish or the Catholic Scots are oppressed like the Palestinians is as juvenile as it is embarrassing. This is Ireland which is entirely free and stable and has got rich from parasitic corporation tax rates while relying on the British to defend them. Get tae fuck
    The arab regimes gave PIRA arms and training so they adopted the "struggle" same as they adopted ETA. You can tell which part of Belfast youre in because of the flags Palestinian for nationalist Israeli for loyalist.

    On current polling performance were in for having a fascist state as a neighbour and supported by a US president.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,730
    SCOTLAND COMEBACK

    LEONDAMUS LIVES
  • Options
    CiceroCicero Posts: 2,320
    FrankBooth said:

    londonpubman said:

    HYUFD said:

    Well at least the Conservative voteshare hasn't gone down after their conference and Rishi's ratings are slightly up from a Tory point of view.

    Otherwise main movement seems to be LD, Green and RefUK to Labour

    Maybe CON sub 150 seats? 😡😡
    It's possible that the Trussites will see a electoral wipeout as a good thing allowing them to rebuild a Thatcherite party from the ashes.
    The trouble us that history repeats, first as tragedy, then as farce.

    In fact Truss isn't a Thatcherite, she's a Farage or Trump style populist. If she goes down that rabbit hole, the Tory party may never come back.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,623
    Alanbrooke said:

    Leon said:

    tlg86 said:

    I see Celtic fans covered themselves in glory today:



    Sinn Fein are doing the same on Twitter

    What is wrong with them? The idea that the Irish or the Catholic Scots are oppressed like the Palestinians is as juvenile as it is embarrassing. This is Ireland which is entirely free and stable and has got rich from parasitic corporation tax rates while relying on the British to defend them. Get tae fuck
    The arab regimes gave PIRA arms and training so they adopted the "struggle" same as they adopted ETA. You can tell which part of Belfast youre in because of the flags Palestinian for nationalist Israeli for loyalist.

    On current polling performance were in for having a fascist state as a neighbour and supported by a US president.
    2021 Census: Only County Down retains its Protestant majority. Antrim now only a plurality.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,543
    Leon said:

    This is now a total, mortifying rout of Scotland

    Leon said:

    This is now a total, mortifying rout of Scotland

    The score line looks more respectable but Scotland have been seriously outplayed by a very good team.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,623
    "The Nepali ambassador to Israel, Kanta Rijal, said at least seven of its nationals in the country were injured in the attack, and that they along with ten others were held captive by Hamas at an agricultural farm in Alumim.[9][50]"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_2023_Gaza−Israel_conflict
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,773
    edited October 2023
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    Leon said:

    tlg86 said:

    I see Celtic fans covered themselves in glory today:



    Sinn Fein are doing the same on Twitter

    What is wrong with them? The idea that the Irish or the Catholic Scots are oppressed like the Palestinians is as juvenile as it is embarrassing. This is Ireland which is entirely free and stable and has got rich from parasitic corporation tax rates while relying on the British to defend them. Get tae fuck
    The arab regimes gave PIRA arms and training so they adopted the "struggle" same as they adopted ETA. You can tell which part of Belfast youre in because of the flags Palestinian for nationalist Israeli for loyalist.

    On current polling performance were in for having a fascist state as a neighbour and supported by a US president.
    2021 Census: Only County Down retains its Protestant majority. Antrim now only a plurality.
    As the old saying goes "are you a catholic or a protestant atheist ? "
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,139
    Theuniondivvie said:

    Leon said:

    tlg86 said:

    I see Celtic fans covered themselves in glory today:



    Sinn Fein are doing the same on Twitter

    What is wrong with them? The idea that the Irish or the Catholic Scots are oppressed like the Palestinians is as juvenile as it is embarrassing. This is Ireland which is entirely free and stable and has got rich from parasitic corporation tax rates while relying on the British to defend them. Get tae fuck
    They should take a leaf out of your guys’ book.


    I recognise the Totenkopf, but what's 936 mean?
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,730
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    This is now a total, mortifying rout of Scotland

    Leon said:

    This is now a total, mortifying rout of Scotland

    The score line looks more respectable but Scotland have been seriously outplayed by a very good team.
    TBF Scotland didn't deserve that cruel draw, putting them with the two of the three best teams in the world. Ouch

    They are easily as good as England or Wales, who had it easy and might both make it to the semis

    I'm starting to think I've been overrating the Boks and a France Ireland final looks likeliest, with France taking it. France v Ireland would be epic, and the first ever all northern Final
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,139
    Alanbrooke said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    Leon said:

    tlg86 said:

    I see Celtic fans covered themselves in glory today:



    Sinn Fein are doing the same on Twitter

    What is wrong with them? The idea that the Irish or the Catholic Scots are oppressed like the Palestinians is as juvenile as it is embarrassing. This is Ireland which is entirely free and stable and has got rich from parasitic corporation tax rates while relying on the British to defend them. Get tae fuck
    The arab regimes gave PIRA arms and training so they adopted the "struggle" same as they adopted ETA. You can tell which part of Belfast youre in because of the flags Palestinian for nationalist Israeli for loyalist.

    On current polling performance were in for having a fascist state as a neighbour and supported by a US president.
    2021 Census: Only County Down retains its Protestant majority. Antrim now only a plurality.
    As the old saying goes "are you a catholic or a protestant atheist ? "
    That's why Partick Thistle was invented, to avoid questions like that from Ulstermen on a Saturday night.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,623
    Carnyx said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    Leon said:

    tlg86 said:

    I see Celtic fans covered themselves in glory today:



    Sinn Fein are doing the same on Twitter

    What is wrong with them? The idea that the Irish or the Catholic Scots are oppressed like the Palestinians is as juvenile as it is embarrassing. This is Ireland which is entirely free and stable and has got rich from parasitic corporation tax rates while relying on the British to defend them. Get tae fuck
    They should take a leaf out of your guys’ book.


    I recognise the Totenkopf, but what's 936 mean?
    https://www.footballscotland.co.uk/spfl/scottish-premiership/rangers-launch-investigation-hit-out-27821614
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,543
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    "The Nepali ambassador to Israel, Kanta Rijal, said at least seven of its nationals in the country were injured in the attack, and that they along with ten others were held captive by Hamas at an agricultural farm in Alumim.[9][50]"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_2023_Gaza−Israel_conflict

    Hamas could do without having Gurkhas coming against them.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,139
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Carnyx said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    Leon said:

    tlg86 said:

    I see Celtic fans covered themselves in glory today:



    Sinn Fein are doing the same on Twitter

    What is wrong with them? The idea that the Irish or the Catholic Scots are oppressed like the Palestinians is as juvenile as it is embarrassing. This is Ireland which is entirely free and stable and has got rich from parasitic corporation tax rates while relying on the British to defend them. Get tae fuck
    They should take a leaf out of your guys’ book.


    I recognise the Totenkopf, but what's 936 mean?
    https://www.footballscotland.co.uk/spfl/scottish-premiership/rangers-launch-investigation-hit-out-27821614
    Thanks. Still doesn't explain the 936, unless it is a numerological thing = ICF which might be Inter-City Firm for want of any better guess.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,679
    Cyclefree said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @JohnRentoul

    Boris Johnson’s former wife Marina Wheeler is to be Labour’s ‘whistleblower tsar’ – via
    @_katedevlin

    A clever barrister. But one with fuck all experience of whistleblowing investigations.
    Tsar's are only appointed for headlines, and this is a good one.
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,071
    Cicero said:

    FrankBooth said:

    londonpubman said:

    HYUFD said:

    Well at least the Conservative voteshare hasn't gone down after their conference and Rishi's ratings are slightly up from a Tory point of view.

    Otherwise main movement seems to be LD, Green and RefUK to Labour

    Maybe CON sub 150 seats? 😡😡
    It's possible that the Trussites will see a electoral wipeout as a good thing allowing them to rebuild a Thatcherite party from the ashes.
    The trouble us that history repeats, first as tragedy, then as farce.

    In fact Truss isn't a Thatcherite, she's a Farage or Trump style populist. If she goes down that rabbit hole, the Tory party may never come back.
    Yes you're right there. She is more of a populist. But she's not really anti immigrant so far as I know. Just bonkers.
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,556
    Theuniondivvie said:

    Leon said:

    tlg86 said:

    I see Celtic fans covered themselves in glory today:



    Sinn Fein are doing the same on Twitter

    What is wrong with them? The idea that the Irish or the Catholic Scots are oppressed like the Palestinians is as juvenile as it is embarrassing. This is Ireland which is entirely free and stable and has got rich from parasitic corporation tax rates while relying on the British to defend them. Get tae fuck
    They should take a leaf out of your guys’ book.


    The fact you felt the need to respond to that with whataboutism says a lot about you.

    Basically far too many Celtic and Rangers supporters are hateful morons. Scottish football in Glasgow is still a cesspit. It reflects badly on the city and country.
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    maxhmaxh Posts: 855
    @Farooq FPT
    Farooq said:

    maxh said:

    Farooq said:

    maxh said:

    Farooq said:

    BartholomewRoberts said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    BartholomewRoberts said:

    Farooq said:

    BartholomewRoberts said:

    Farooq said:

    BartholomewRoberts said:

    Farooq said:

    Jim_Miller said:

    There has been an obvious solution to the Palestinian problem for decades. And a fairly easy one, as the September 9th issue of the Economist reminded me. Turns out that a Muslim nation, Uzbekistan, once had a substantial Jewish population, about 200,000. They fled Muslim and Communist persection, and now about half of them are in the US, half of them in the UK.

    The same is true of many Arab nations; they once had substantial Jewish populations, but do no longer. Now it is true that none of these nations particularly want the Palestinians, but they should take them in, anyway.

    This solution follows the "aggressor pays" rule, which is a good one, in general.

    Sure, sounds like a good plan. Who knew that the solution was simply to wipe Palestine off the map? Seems so obvious now you mention it.
    What Palestine on the map?

    Egypt and Transjordan already wiped Palestine off the map in 1947.

    They tried twice to wipe Israel off the map and failed both times and the disputed territory isn't Palestinian land it's ex Egyptian and Jordanian land and they've renounced their claims to it.

    If they take responsibility for their actions and take the people who can't peacefully live in Israel's land, that's taking responsibility for their own history and may allow peace.
    What do you mean, "what Palestine"? The country of Palestine. The one next to Israel, that one.
    What country of Palestine? There is none. Egypt and Transjordan, as well as Arafat saw to that.

    There is a state that has not acquired country status as part of the land for peace accords agreed with Arafat but since Arafat then rejected peace and so have Hamas they've no right to country status and don't have it.

    If they lose the land they acquired from false commitments to peace and from losing a war then fair enough.
    Look, I don't know why you keep talking about Arafat. Well over half the population of Palestine was born since Arafat died. Whatever Arafat did or didn't do is not their fault. And these people, these Palestinians, these humans. Where do they live? Palestine is a place. It's recognised by the vast majority of the world. It exists.
    It's not their sovereign territory, it is disputed territory like Crimea which is occupied by Russia.

    On 31 July 1988, King Hussein announced the severance of all legal and administrative ties with the West Bank, except for the Jordanian sponsorship of the Muslim and Christian holy sites in Jerusalem, and recognised the PLO's claim to the State of Palestine. In his speech to the nation held on that day he announced his decision and explained that this decision was made with the aim of helping the Palestinian people establishing their own independent state.[59][60]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordanian_annexation_of_the_West_Bank#Jordanian_disengagement
    Since King Hussein's country had lost control of that land in a war it began against a nation that was defending it's very right to exist that doesn't mean the land is Palestinian, it means it's Israels.

    Now if Israel wishes to gift that land to the Palestinians that is quite generous and they've tried that for decades. If that doesn't work, then deporting those who refuse to recognise their right to exist might be a last resort.

    Germany lost land to France, to Poland and others at the end of WWII. Do you think that land should be returned to Germany now?

    The only difference is the Poles deported the Germans en mass. Which they kind of deserved after WWII. The Arabs deserved the same after 47 and 67 but Israel were the better humans.
    Nobody deserves to be deported for things that their government or the government of a neighbouring country has done. The ethnic Germans living in Poland and just getting on with their own lives weren't to blame for anything. Ordinary Arabs in Israel or Palestine aren't to blame. Don't punish the innocent.
    This exchange is a perfect example of why, very sadly, when this conflict is the subject of pb I find the comments simply unreadable. You two aren’t talking to each other. At all. You might as well boil your own heads in a vat of oil for all the good it will do.
    Firstly, fuck off.

    Secondly, if you haven't fucked off yet, I'm responding directly and, I have to say, rather obviously to anyone with a brain cell, to this:
    "The only difference is the Poles deported the Germans en mass. Which they kind of deserved after WWII."

    The clue is in my exactly duplicating of the language: "Nobody deserves to be deported for things that..."

    Thirdly, fuck off.
    A very fair response considering…and apologies, it looked like my comment was directed primarily at you when in fact I pretty much agree with your position. I was trying and failing to make a wider comment rather than one directed at you.

    Though your response does rather serve to illustrate my point.

    Anyway, I did at least fuck off for a while, so there’s that.
    I apologise for jumping down your throat quite so much, but I felt like in my replies to Barty I was addressing things he was saying quite directly, acknowledging that some of what he said right but really wanting to say that other things he was saying were beyond the pale. I maintain that view, and I was working hard to contain quite a considerable amount of anger that he (and, sadly, others too) are talking openly about ethnic cleansing as a viable "solution" to this.

    The reason I jumped at you was because I was really working so hard to contain that anger and address the points and I felt that was wholly unacknowledged when you seems to be accusing me of not listening to him. You ended up being the conduit for that anger I was holding back, but you didn't really earn that response so I apologise for the tone.
    Thanks, but really the apology isn’t necessary. I deserved it, not least because I know how annoying it is when someone drops into an argument, stokes it up a bit, then leaves. This wasn’t intentional on my part (young kids distracting me) but still.

    Also because I phrased it poorly. For clarity ( though it is now long after the fact and you may not even read this) what I really meant was that you are both well intentioned and trying to engage with the other but feel so passionately that you end up down rabbit holes (talking about Poles and Germans after WW2) from which you can’t really escape.

    It’s one thing that depresses me most about this conflict - that people who are open-minded about other things are so vociferously adamant about their position on this.

    Anyway, I appreciate your considered reply and hope I’m not just typing back into the ether - sorry I have only read it now.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,187
    edited October 2023
    Leon said:

    What is wrong with them? The idea that the Irish or the Catholic Scots are oppressed like the Palestinians is as juvenile as it is embarrassing. This is Ireland which is entirely free and stable and has got rich from parasitic corporation tax rates while relying on the British to defend them. Get tae fuck

    This has been going on for some decades. Since the 1980's(?) the Unionists and Republicans have separated on Israel/Palestine grounds. The (Irish) Republicans saw an analogy between the Plantation of Ulster and the building of Israeli settler towns in the Palestinian territories, or even the establishment of Israel. The inevitable sortition followed.

    [EDIT: I see @Alanbrooke got there before me. Must type faster :) ]
This discussion has been closed.