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LAB strong favourites to gain Mid-Beds – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,215
edited October 2023 in General
imageLAB strong favourites to gain Mid-Beds – politicalbetting.com

After the LAB success in Scotland the party has big hopes of gaining the next by-election to come up – Mid Beds a week on Thursday.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,195
    First, unlike the SNP
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    Tory value? Still wagering nowt on this seat though tbh.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,004
    It’s between Con and Lab, much to the chagrin of the LD by-election machine who thought they could win from a distant 3rd.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,898
    I think Labour will probably win this one but Tamworth to my mind is the kind of seat Labour will underperform in and I reckon they will fall short there.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    Sandpit said:

    It’s between Con and Lab, much to the chagrin of the LD by-election machine who thought they could win from a distant 3rd.

    The great unknown is how many traditional Tories couldn't bring themselves to vote for Nadine, but might now return to the fold.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,363
    Hmm, Tamworth was one of the most XL-Bully-loving parts of the UK as shown by that petition.

    SKS only has to campaign on saving the cuddly Bully, S, M, L, XL or XXl, doesn't matter, it's sewn up.

    (Obvious logic fail there. But he does have a potential wedge issue.)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,004

    Sandpit said:

    It’s between Con and Lab, much to the chagrin of the LD by-election machine who thought they could win from a distant 3rd.

    The great unknown is how many traditional Tories couldn't bring themselves to vote for Nadine, but might now return to the fold.
    Can I trademark “The Uxbridge Effect”, to describe that?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    The country wants revenge on the Tories. I strongly suspect they will lose both by-elex
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    edited October 2023
    Greened up here with basically a Labour back to lay (All done) play. Probably be Labour now.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,004
    LOL Pakistan 252/8 with six overs still to go.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779

    I think Labour will probably win this one but Tamworth to my mind is the kind of seat Labour will underperform in and I reckon they will fall short there.

    I suppose it's a sign of the times that a measure of Labour underperformance would be a swing of less than 21.3%.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    It’s between Con and Lab, much to the chagrin of the LD by-election machine who thought they could win from a distant 3rd.

    The great unknown is how many traditional Tories couldn't bring themselves to vote for Nadine, but might now return to the fold.
    Can I trademark “The Uxbridge Effect”, to describe that?
    Only if the Tories win the seat!
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,898
    Chris said:

    I think Labour will probably win this one but Tamworth to my mind is the kind of seat Labour will underperform in and I reckon they will fall short there.

    I suppose it's a sign of the times that a measure of Labour underperformance would be a swing of less than 21.3%.
    Ha yes. It's a reach, and I think Labour will struggle to progress in the Midlands (and Greater London) while doing well in the North, Scotland and the South ex London.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,126
    Leon said:

    The country wants revenge on the Tories. I strongly suspect they will lose both by-elex

    Well, yes, obs. Question is by how much and to whom. Labour win Tamworth by not so much I think, but Mid Beds is less clear, Like Mike I am hearing the Lib Dems are doing pretty well there. Might be the Tories are third, which would be fun.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,004
    Netherlands have used EIGHT bowlers in this match. Is that a record for the World Cup?
  • Very good news in the housing market as house prices continue to fall off their obscenely high prices, while wages continue to rise, so the house price/income ratio continues to move in the right direction for once: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67028467

    In what is overall a terrible cost of living crisis for many, its good to get some unabashed good news here.

    And remarkably the sky hasn't fallen despite all the concerns about 'negative equity' that people used to cry crocodile tears over when saying there needed to be a house price correction.

    Hopefully home ownership rates can start to turn around and go in the right direction too with house prices falling again, just like they reached record highs after the correction in the 1990s.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,044
    edited October 2023
    Nice happy clappy piece on The Greens from The Guardian, increasingly a left wing version of the Daily Mail.

    They look slightly unhinged in the picture. Makes them perfect for politics.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/greens-head-to-brighton-targeting-four-seats-at-next-election/ar-AA1hLnBD?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=19614aa91fde4c26a97042cb4ca46266&ei=14
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    Today's national news stories leading with a Labour parliamentary by-election triumph is not going to help the Lib Dems in the "who is best placed to beat the Tories" stakes in Mid Beds.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,137
    Taz said:
    That's not the Grauniad.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,044
    Sandpit said:

    It’s between Con and Lab, much to the chagrin of the LD by-election machine who thought they could win from a distant 3rd.

    The supreme arrogance of the Lib Dem fanatics who expected Labour should stand aside for them in a seat labour should be the challenger in.

    This whole notion, in the "PrOgReSsIvE aLlIaNcE" sphere that all parties are chums who sit around the campfire, holding hands, and singing Kumbayah, while all hating the tories ignores the plain truth that in many parts of the country they are visceral opponents.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411

    Today's national news stories leading with a Labour parliamentary by-election triumph is not going to help the Lib Dems in the "who is best placed to beat the Tories" stakes in Mid Beds.

    But is.. is Sir Keir a mason ?
  • Very good news in the housing market as house prices continue to fall off their obscenely high prices, while wages continue to rise, so the house price/income ratio continues to move in the right direction for once: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67028467

    In what is overall a terrible cost of living crisis for many, its good to get some unabashed good news here.

    And remarkably the sky hasn't fallen despite all the concerns about 'negative equity' that people used to cry crocodile tears over when saying there needed to be a house price correction.

    Hopefully home ownership rates can start to turn around and go in the right direction too with house prices falling again, just like they reached record highs after the correction in the 1990s.

    Not just that oil prices are plummeting too so thats good news.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    Rauf has probably got Pakistan over the line here.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,212
    Foxy said:

    Taz said:
    That's not the Grauniad.
    You and your 'facts'.
  • Us economy still pretty strong too. ISM services was strong. Employment out today.
  • Sandpit said:

    It’s between Con and Lab, much to the chagrin of the LD by-election machine who thought they could win from a distant 3rd.

    The great unknown is how many traditional Tories couldn't bring themselves to vote for Nadine, but might now return to the fold.
    Dotty though Dorries was, why wouldn't a "traditional Tory" have voted for her in 2005-2019? She pretty reliably trooped through the relevant lobby for her party, and was even a government minister at one point. She had a sizeable majority.

    No doubt people were pretty p1ssed off with towards the end, but a lot of that was over her conduct in the final few months and wouldn't have been a factor in the five elections she actually fought and won.
  • Very good news in the housing market as house prices continue to fall off their obscenely high prices, while wages continue to rise, so the house price/income ratio continues to move in the right direction for once: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67028467

    In what is overall a terrible cost of living crisis for many, its good to get some unabashed good news here.

    And remarkably the sky hasn't fallen despite all the concerns about 'negative equity' that people used to cry crocodile tears over when saying there needed to be a house price correction.

    Hopefully home ownership rates can start to turn around and go in the right direction too with house prices falling again, just like they reached record highs after the correction in the 1990s.

    Not just that oil prices are plummeting too so thats good news.
    Quite a significant move this week, not sure why that is to be honest.

    Not noticed anything in the forecourts yet, but since the movement only started a few days ago hopefully that feeds through too soon. Petrol is far too expensive currently.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,212
    (FPT)
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    There’s a concealed warning here for Labour. Which they won’t heed in their justified glee over a triumphant victory

    The SNP, inter alia, are a cautionary tale of what happens to a left wing party that gets consumed by identity politics and Wokeness. In the end the voters get sick of it and dump you

    I fully expect Labour to follow the SNP’s example when they reach power. They too are drenched in The Woke

    You say 'In the end the voters get sick of it and dump you' referring to woke.

    After all these years of posting about woke here there are only 2 of you for whom this is a major issue. The rest of us think your obsession is bonkers, I suspect that is true for the rest of the population.

    What will probably bring down a Labour government is what brings down all Governments. They get complacent, corruption, cockups, the voters want a change, etc, etc

    Woke will be 99 in a list of 100 reasons.

    You are obsessed. And that is coming from me who detests wokeness.
    This is a really dumb take when Woke issues have obviously contributed, in a major way, to the problems of the SNP

    1. Their obsession with Woke gender woo has turned off a lot of voters and activists and caused bitter infighting (cf Joanna Cherry)

    2. Their overall Wokeness means they chose the worse Woke candidate for leader - Yousaf - over the obviously superior but decidedly non woke Forbes

    So, yes, woke was a big thing in this election. Its probably the first UK election where that has been the case

    There will be more. Starmer js quite Woke and his party is often super Woke. Yet the voters are not. I spy trouble ahead (but only after Starmer romps home with a majority)
    Indeed, by 2026 Starmer will likely have fixed the economy, introduced a workable and affordable plan for long term care, stopped the boats, ended the war on Ukraine on its own terms and brought waiting lists down to one month for all. However his government will collapse because the Darren Jones vegan wing will be at odds with the Thangam Debbinaire vegan wing over whether venison really is vegan or not.

    I am baffled why people apart from Leon and myself can't see this.
    Look at America. That’s where we’re headed. Massive culture wars over Wokeness

    I really wish this wasn’t the case. But it is. Until AI takes over
    Who, on here, stokes culture wars more than you?


    I’ve been out in the Maldives with a bunch of people including a well known owner of multiple UK magazines. We’ve had a laugh - he’s a good guy - but he is clearly a lefty and he gets really wound up by the word Woke. It obviously distresses him. Which makes it a successful pejorative and I shall continue to use it as much as I can.

    It is also extremely useful in itself. It really does describe SOMETHING - and we all know it when we see it

    Strangely, we don't. Some people see it everywhere, a phantom haunting the minds of obsessional weirdos. Others see it here and there. Others see it not at all. We don't all agree on what woke is, or whether this or that thing qualifies.
    Anyone who is annoyed, hurt, or distressed by the word Woke, is Woke

    There. That’s an easy definition for you
    But I'm not annoyed, hurt or distressed by the word Woke. And I am Woke. Try again.
    No. It’s not an exclusive definition. If you are annoyed hurt etc by Woke you are Woke. But there are other Woke people who don’t realise Woke is an insult, because they’re stupid, so they don’t get hurt offended etc. I guess you’re one of them?
    Of course it's not an insult. It is a word created by Woke people to describe the act of being Woke, which they consider to be a good thing. It was subsequently picked up be people opposed to things like equality and racial justice, who consider Woke to be a bad thing, who have tried to make it an insult. Low grade basic reactionaries who get annoyed and hurt by Woke because they're stupid or perhaps feel threatened buy into this shit. I guess you're one of them?
    The thing is do you think equality is ever achievable. That men or women can be completely equal or the races completely equal. Sometimes measures to achieve equality can cause more harm than good.
    "Races" don't exist. People from different "races" are completely equal because there's no substance to how people have been divided into different "races".
    Except that, genetically, there is

    There is broad agreement that humanity can be usefully divided into three broad races - African, Asian, European (for want of better terms).
    This is untrue. Anyone saying this is stupid and/or a racist. Leon is the latter and probably the former.
    Do please withdraw that remark. I’m right

    “Several direct-to-consumer genetic testing companies report how much DNA a person has inherited from prehistoric humans, such as Neanderthals and Denisovans. This information is generally reported as a percentage that suggests how much DNA an individual has inherited from these ancestors. The percentage of Neanderthal DNA in modern humans is zero or close to zero in people from African populations, and is about 1 to 2 percent in people of European or Asian background. The percentage of Denisovan DNA is highest in the Melanesian population (4 to 6 percent), lower in other Southeast Asian and Pacific Islander populations, and very low or undetectable elsewhere in the world.”

    THat is a lot of bollocks (so to speak). Humans have about 97% of DNA in common with other chimps.

    https://bmcgenomics.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12864-020-06962-8
    For these purposes "has x% of DNA in common with" is a very imprecise statement, meaning very different things with regard to modern primates and extinct near-human populations.

    As far as the Denisovans (who as far as we know comprised at least two separate populations as distinct from each other as they are from modern humans) are concerned, the DNA 'in common' is largely SNPs associated with the immune system.

    It's a very complex subject, but large scale population differences in DNA don't bear much relation to the concept of 'race' we've had rolling around since Victorian times.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Taz said:
    That's not the Grauniad.
    You and your 'facts'.
    Story by Peter Walker Deputy political editor

    x.com

    Peter Walker
    @peterwalker99
    Guardian deputy political editor.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,952
    "A mother-of-three has been left fearing for her children's safety after a violent XL Bully-type dog got into her garden and killed the family's beloved pet cat – in violent scenes caught on CCTV.

    Nima Begum, 40, was in her house when she heard a commotion outside and saw a man wrestling with the powerful animal.

    He kept shouting 'Your cat is fine', even though his pet's jaws were covered in blood.

    Ms Begum rushed outside and found her terrified cat Kiwi cowering in a tree, which she managed to get down with the help of a passer-by. But the tabby died before she could get her to a vet."

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12601837/horrifying-moment-XL-Bully-savagely-mauls-familys-cat-death.html
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,661
    PT - I've noticed that the most common phrase from our periodic Putin trolls is "Leon has a point".
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,044
    Foxy said:

    Taz said:
    That's not the Grauniad.
    It is if you click the article.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,661
    Mid Beds, yes Labour. I've done this one nicely. Win on them, flat the others.
  • kinabalu said:

    PT - I've noticed that the most common phrase from our periodic Putin trolls is "Leon has a point".

    Well if you occasionally said something sensible kinabalu i would praise you too.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,926
    If Labour have a decent conference without significant missteps, they win Mid Beds, and there is no sign of Tory poll recovery in the coming weeks I’ll be fully prepared to change my position.

    My gut has always been, since the Sunak takeover, that the next general election was likely to result in a small Labour majority or even no majority at all.

    But I am starting to move towards the idea that something very cataclysmic is awaiting the Tories, and that we might see an utter trouncing. I mean, even sub 150 seat style trouncing.

    The polls are just not moving back to them.

    There is just an air of complete hopelessness hovering around the Tory Party at the moment. It feels like people just can’t bring themselves to vote for them. Too much water under the bridge. Too much loss of faith.

    Yes, Starmer is no Blair but then Sunak is no Major. People thought the country was badly run in 1996 but it was nothing like what we face now. At what point does the choice simply become that a roll of the dice with a fresh face is worth it?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,945
    Sandpit said:

    It’s between Con and Lab, much to the chagrin of the LD by-election machine who thought they could win from a distant 3rd.

    I've not heard anything (that I trust) for sometime, but the LDs certainly aren't giving up. Only yesterday I had another email trying to get me there. There is a competition on this week (not really obviously, but just as a means for boosting attendance) between the LD Eastern, London and South East Regions on who can get the most activists there this weekend.

    On the current odds quoted I would back the LDs. Who will win is another matter.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,044
    Sandpit said:

    Netherlands have used EIGHT bowlers in this match. Is that a record for the World Cup?

    Assorted World Players under a flag of convenience XI, plus Bas De Leede v Pakistan
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,403
    Foxy said:

    Taz said:
    That's not the Grauniad.
    (adopts Crocodile Dundee voice)

    Nah. This is the Grauniad.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/oct/06/greens-head-to-brighton-targeting-four-seats-at-next-election
  • Us economy still pretty strong too. ISM services was strong. Employment out today.

    And Russia continue to get their ass handed to them and Crimea might be liberated soon.

    There's a lot to be positive about currently, despite the negativity. :)
  • If Labour have a decent conference without significant missteps, they win Mid Beds, and there is no sign of Tory poll recovery in the coming weeks I’ll be fully prepared to change my position.

    My gut has always been, since the Sunak takeover, that the next general election was likely to result in a small Labour majority or even no majority at all.

    But I am starting to move towards the idea that something very cataclysmic is awaiting the Tories, and that we might see an utter trouncing. I mean, even sub 150 seat style trouncing.

    The polls are just not moving back to them.

    There is just an air of complete hopelessness hovering around the Tory Party at the moment. It feels like people just can’t bring themselves to vote for them. Too much water under the bridge. Too much loss of faith.

    Yes, Starmer is no Blair but then Sunak is no Major. People thought the country was badly run in 1996 but it was nothing like what we face now. At what point does the choice simply become that a roll of the dice with a fresh face is worth it?

    Yeah economy was great in 97. Didnt help Major.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,712
    Pakistan all out in 49 overs. 286.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,025

    Very good news in the housing market as house prices continue to fall off their obscenely high prices, while wages continue to rise, so the house price/income ratio continues to move in the right direction for once: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67028467

    In what is overall a terrible cost of living crisis for many, its good to get some unabashed good news here.

    And remarkably the sky hasn't fallen despite all the concerns about 'negative equity' that people used to cry crocodile tears over when saying there needed to be a house price correction.

    Hopefully home ownership rates can start to turn around and go in the right direction too with house prices falling again, just like they reached record highs after the correction in the 1990s.

    My daughter and her partner are looking for a place in Leith. I suggested waiting until the New Year to get better value for money. I still think that was right but they shouldn't wait too long.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,044
    kjh said:

    Sandpit said:

    It’s between Con and Lab, much to the chagrin of the LD by-election machine who thought they could win from a distant 3rd.

    I've not heard anything (that I trust) for sometime, but the LDs certainly aren't giving up. Only yesterday I had another email trying to get me there. There is a competition on this week (not really obviously, but just as a means for boosting attendance) between the LD Eastern, London and South East Regions on who can get the most activists there this weekend.

    On the current odds quoted I would back the LDs. Who will win is another matter.
    Yes, I think Lib Dem is the value bet here. Not sure they will win but it is the value bet.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,004
    Rule #1 of limited overs cricket, is that you have to use all the overs.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,661
    Pulpstar said:

    Today's national news stories leading with a Labour parliamentary by-election triumph is not going to help the Lib Dems in the "who is best placed to beat the Tories" stakes in Mid Beds.

    But is.. is Sir Keir a mason ?
    He's a stone (cold election winner) mason at landslide lodge!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,041
    Foxy said:

    Taz said:
    That's not the Grauniad.
    Looks like the text was syndicated, probably for a fee paid to the Guardian, hence the branding at the top.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    edited October 2023

    Very good news in the housing market as house prices continue to fall off their obscenely high prices, while wages continue to rise, so the house price/income ratio continues to move in the right direction for once: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67028467

    In what is overall a terrible cost of living crisis for many, its good to get some unabashed good news here.

    And remarkably the sky hasn't fallen despite all the concerns about 'negative equity' that people used to cry crocodile tears over when saying there needed to be a house price correction.

    Hopefully home ownership rates can start to turn around and go in the right direction too with house prices falling again, just like they reached record highs after the correction in the 1990s.

    Not just that oil prices are plummeting too so thats good news.
    Quite a significant move this week, not sure why that is to be honest.

    Not noticed anything in the forecourts yet, but since the movement only started a few days ago hopefully that feeds through too soon. Petrol is far too expensive currently.
    Where do you fill up ? Your commuting mileage isn't dissimilar to mine from what I can work out here..

    Your nearest Costco at Saints is 146.9 for standard unleaded. If you're vaguely adjacent to one of the qualifying members criteria it's worth a go to try and get membership.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    kinabalu said:

    PT - I've noticed that the most common phrase from our periodic Putin trolls is "Leon has a point".

    Vlad is just returning the favour after I said he was right about Woke
  • Us economy still pretty strong too. ISM services was strong. Employment out today.

    And Russia continue to get their ass handed to them and Crimea might be liberated soon.

    There's a lot to be positive about currently, despite the negativity. :)
    Crimea might be liberated soon. What are you smoking. This is the sort of stuff Elon Musk is tweeting now.

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1708629197617336398?s=20
  • Sandpit said:

    Rule #1 of limited overs cricket, is that you have to use all the overs.

    Yeah, but it's only one over - so call it ten runs.

    I expect P have enough but pretty good performance from the Dutch bowlers.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,212
    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Taz said:
    That's not the Grauniad.
    You and your 'facts'.
    Story by Peter Walker Deputy political editor

    x.com

    Peter Walker
    @peterwalker99
    Guardian deputy political editor.
    Indeed.
    Link wasn't, though.

    The characterisation of the piece as "happy clappy" was also wrong, I think. It was a story about how the Greens are presenting themselves.
    Walker also wrote a relatively dispassionate account of Sunak's conference speech:
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/oct/04/key-takeaways-rishi-sunak-tory-conference-speech

    The animus against the Guardian is fair enough; each to their own.
    But the critiques of it are tending a bit daft.
  • DavidL said:

    Very good news in the housing market as house prices continue to fall off their obscenely high prices, while wages continue to rise, so the house price/income ratio continues to move in the right direction for once: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67028467

    In what is overall a terrible cost of living crisis for many, its good to get some unabashed good news here.

    And remarkably the sky hasn't fallen despite all the concerns about 'negative equity' that people used to cry crocodile tears over when saying there needed to be a house price correction.

    Hopefully home ownership rates can start to turn around and go in the right direction too with house prices falling again, just like they reached record highs after the correction in the 1990s.

    My daughter and her partner are looking for a place in Leith. I suggested waiting until the New Year to get better value for money. I still think that was right but they shouldn't wait too long.
    Are they renting currently? Because if so, even if they might get something cheaper down the line, the cost of dead money in rent means there's little real difference so to speak. May as well start looking now would be my thought, if they find something they love just get it and if not they can keep looking until the New Year.

    We bought at the peak of the market, moving into our property December last year, but despite that the drop in our equity is barely any different to what we'd have paid in rent over that period anyway - and thankfully we have a place of our own which is more important.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,041
    Nigelb said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Taz said:
    That's not the Grauniad.
    You and your 'facts'.
    Story by Peter Walker Deputy political editor

    x.com

    Peter Walker
    @peterwalker99
    Guardian deputy political editor.
    Indeed.
    Link wasn't, though.

    The characterisation of the piece as "happy clappy" was also wrong, I think. It was a story about how the Greens are presenting themselves.
    Walker also wrote a relatively dispassionate account of Sunak's conference speech:
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/oct/04/key-takeaways-rishi-sunak-tory-conference-speech

    The animus against the Guardian is fair enough; each to their own.
    But the critiques of it are tending a bit daft.
    It was “from the Guardian” though, as Taz said
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,044

    Us economy still pretty strong too. ISM services was strong. Employment out today.

    And Russia continue to get their ass handed to them and Crimea might be liberated soon.

    There's a lot to be positive about currently, despite the negativity. :)
    Why do you think it will be liberated soon ?

  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Taz said:

    kjh said:

    Sandpit said:

    It’s between Con and Lab, much to the chagrin of the LD by-election machine who thought they could win from a distant 3rd.

    I've not heard anything (that I trust) for sometime, but the LDs certainly aren't giving up. Only yesterday I had another email trying to get me there. There is a competition on this week (not really obviously, but just as a means for boosting attendance) between the LD Eastern, London and South East Regions on who can get the most activists there this weekend.

    On the current odds quoted I would back the LDs. Who will win is another matter.
    Yes, I think Lib Dem is the value bet here. Not sure they will win but it is the value bet.
    The 'value bet' meme always makes me smile.

    Some of you bet far more than I, and many of you are statisticians in a way that I am not. However, I do tend to make money on political betting and haven't lost for some years. I think @BartholomewRoberts would criticise that approach as 'gambling' is part of the point if a bet is "value."

    However, I think it's worth pointing out that if something is 100/1 against it does not mean that one time in one hundred you are going to win. There is no law of averages and if you continue betting then each time you bet you are still only betting at 100/1 odds.

    Of course, canny betting is mostly about using your head and spotting something that the betting market doesn't. A great example was Mike's tip on Chesham & Amersham which was based on inside knowledge.

    There is no such insight this time and I suspect the reason LibDem odds this morning are drifting even further is that the betting markets have this right: a Labour win.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,240
    Dura_Ace said:

    If Labour have a decent conference without significant missteps, they win Mid Beds, and there is no sign of Tory poll recovery in the coming weeks I’ll be fully prepared to change my position.

    My gut has always been, since the Sunak takeover, that the next general election was likely to result in a small Labour majority or even no majority at all.

    But I am starting to move towards the idea that something very cataclysmic is awaiting the Tories, and that we might see an utter trouncing. I mean, even sub 150 seat style trouncing.

    The polls are just not moving back to them.

    There is just an air of complete hopelessness hovering around the Tory Party at the moment. It feels like people just can’t bring themselves to vote for them. Too much water under the bridge. Too much loss of faith.

    Yes, Starmer is no Blair but then Sunak is no Major. People thought the country was badly run in 1996 but it was nothing like what we face now. At what point does the choice simply become that a roll of the dice with a fresh face is worth it?

    From a tory perspective, it's starting to be apparent that Sunak is part of the problem, not part of the solution.
    What's less apparent is whether there is a solution for the Tories.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 22,375
    edited October 2023

    Us economy still pretty strong too. ISM services was strong. Employment out today.

    And Russia continue to get their ass handed to them and Crimea might be liberated soon.

    There's a lot to be positive about currently, despite the negativity. :)
    Crimea might be liberated soon. What are you smoking. This is the sort of stuff Elon Musk is tweeting now.

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1708629197617336398?s=20
    You shouldn't be so obvious.

    And this is the sort of stuff the news are Tweeting: https://nitter.net/BBCWorld/status/1559451419882700800

    EDIT: Or more up to date since that one was August: https://nitter.net/general_ben/status/1709879733746311168#m
  • DavidL said:

    Very good news in the housing market as house prices continue to fall off their obscenely high prices, while wages continue to rise, so the house price/income ratio continues to move in the right direction for once: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67028467

    In what is overall a terrible cost of living crisis for many, its good to get some unabashed good news here.

    And remarkably the sky hasn't fallen despite all the concerns about 'negative equity' that people used to cry crocodile tears over when saying there needed to be a house price correction.

    Hopefully home ownership rates can start to turn around and go in the right direction too with house prices falling again, just like they reached record highs after the correction in the 1990s.

    My daughter and her partner are looking for a place in Leith. I suggested waiting until the New Year to get better value for money. I still think that was right but they shouldn't wait too long.
    Are they renting currently? Because if so, even if they might get something cheaper down the line, the cost of dead money in rent means there's little real difference so to speak. May as well start looking now would be my thought, if they find something they love just get it and if not they can keep looking until the New Year.

    We bought at the peak of the market, moving into our property December last year, but despite that the drop in our equity is barely any different to what we'd have paid in rent over that period anyway - and thankfully we have a place of our own which is more important.
    With typical mortage and savings rates at 5-6% that won't be typical.

    Cost of borrowing and lost interest on savings > or similar to average rental yield.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,044

    Us economy still pretty strong too. ISM services was strong. Employment out today.

    Oddly enough hoping on bad news on the employment front.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,004

    Us economy still pretty strong too. ISM services was strong. Employment out today.

    And Russia continue to get their ass handed to them and Crimea might be liberated soon.

    There's a lot to be positive about currently, despite the negativity. :)
    Crimea might be liberated soon. What are you smoking. This is the sort of stuff Elon Musk is tweeting now.

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1708629197617336398?s=20
    The Ukranian liberation of Crimea is going to be the standout world political event of next year.

    Just imagine how awful that is going to be for those defending Tokmak and the Kerch Bridge, knowing that they’re the last holdouts against the inevitable, and suffering daily losses of men and vehicles to do so?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,041

    Us economy still pretty strong too. ISM services was strong. Employment out today.

    And Russia continue to get their ass handed to them and Crimea might be liberated soon.

    There's a lot to be positive about currently, despite the negativity. :)
    Crimea might be liberated soon. What are you smoking. This is the sort of stuff Elon Musk is tweeting now.

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1708629197617336398?s=20
    You shouldn't be so obvious.

    And this is the sort of stuff the news are Tweeting: https://nitter.net/BBCWorld/status/1559451419882700800
    They are certainly improving. We’ll see what happens when the V word is mentioned.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,952
    Carnyx said:

    Hmm, Tamworth was one of the most XL-Bully-loving parts of the UK as shown by that petition.

    SKS only has to campaign on saving the cuddly Bully, S, M, L, XL or XXl, doesn't matter, it's sewn up.

    (Obvious logic fail there. But he does have a potential wedge issue.)

    What petition?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,712
    Heathener said:

    Taz said:

    kjh said:

    Sandpit said:

    It’s between Con and Lab, much to the chagrin of the LD by-election machine who thought they could win from a distant 3rd.

    I've not heard anything (that I trust) for sometime, but the LDs certainly aren't giving up. Only yesterday I had another email trying to get me there. There is a competition on this week (not really obviously, but just as a means for boosting attendance) between the LD Eastern, London and South East Regions on who can get the most activists there this weekend.

    On the current odds quoted I would back the LDs. Who will win is another matter.
    Yes, I think Lib Dem is the value bet here. Not sure they will win but it is the value bet.
    The 'value bet' meme always makes me smile.

    Some of you bet far more than I, and many of you are statisticians in a way that I am not. However, I do tend to make money on political betting and haven't lost for some years. I think @BartholomewRoberts would criticise that approach as 'gambling' is part of the point if a bet is "value."

    However, I think it's worth pointing out that if something is 100/1 against it does not mean that one time in one hundred you are going to win. There is no law of averages and if you continue betting then each time you bet you are still only betting at 100/1 odds.

    Of course, canny betting is mostly about using your head and spotting something that the betting market doesn't. A great example was Mike's tip on Chesham & Amersham which was based on inside knowledge.

    There is no such insight this time and I suspect the reason LibDem odds this morning are drifting even further is that the betting markets have this right: a Labour win.
    I will always smile at the thought of Foxy’s regular bet on Leicester to win the Premier League. Massive odds, but just the once it came off!
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    If Labour have a decent conference without significant missteps, they win Mid Beds, and there is no sign of Tory poll recovery in the coming weeks I’ll be fully prepared to change my position.

    My gut has always been, since the Sunak takeover, that the next general election was likely to result in a small Labour majority or even no majority at all.

    But I am starting to move towards the idea that something very cataclysmic is awaiting the Tories, and that we might see an utter trouncing. I mean, even sub 150 seat style trouncing.

    The polls are just not moving back to them.

    There is just an air of complete hopelessness hovering around the Tory Party at the moment. It feels like people just can’t bring themselves to vote for them. Too much water under the bridge. Too much loss of faith.

    Yes, Starmer is no Blair but then Sunak is no Major. People thought the country was badly run in 1996 but it was nothing like what we face now. At what point does the choice simply become that a roll of the dice with a fresh face is worth it?

    Indeed.

    Some of you will have missed my earlier anecdote, which I offer in sincerity.

    My lifelong tory voter friend in Surrey told me this week that for the first time in her life she will not be voting Conservative at the next General Election. She has literally voted Conservative for the last three decades, including 1997, 2001 etc. She cited the latest Suella Braverman outburst as the final straw.

    When even your lifelong voters are giving up, you've had it.

    It's that bad.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    PT - I've noticed that the most common phrase from our periodic Putin trolls is "Leon has a point".

    Vlad is just returning the favour after I said he was right about Woke
    He's just desperate to conceal the fact he has a gay lover he met in the Urals.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,568
    I was a bit surprised by the comment that Labour doesn't usually do well with graduates. Is there a link for that? My impression was that we are doing much better with graduates than with DE voters, because of differential turnout.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,004

    Sandpit said:

    Rule #1 of limited overs cricket, is that you have to use all the overs.

    Yeah, but it's only one over - so call it ten runs.

    I expect P have enough but pretty good performance from the Dutch bowlers.
    I suspect they could be quite a bit short. We’ll find out in the next few hours!
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,044
    Heathener said:

    Taz said:

    kjh said:

    Sandpit said:

    It’s between Con and Lab, much to the chagrin of the LD by-election machine who thought they could win from a distant 3rd.

    I've not heard anything (that I trust) for sometime, but the LDs certainly aren't giving up. Only yesterday I had another email trying to get me there. There is a competition on this week (not really obviously, but just as a means for boosting attendance) between the LD Eastern, London and South East Regions on who can get the most activists there this weekend.

    On the current odds quoted I would back the LDs. Who will win is another matter.
    Yes, I think Lib Dem is the value bet here. Not sure they will win but it is the value bet.
    The 'value bet' meme always makes me smile.

    Some of you bet far more than I, and many of you are statisticians in a way that I am not. However, I do tend to make money on political betting and haven't lost for some years. I think @BartholomewRoberts would criticise that approach as 'gambling' is part of the point if a bet is "value."

    However, I think it's worth pointing out that if something is 100/1 against it does not mean that one time in one hundred you are going to win. There is no law of averages and if you continue betting then each time you bet you are still only betting at 100/1 odds.

    Of course, canny betting is mostly about using your head and spotting something that the betting market doesn't. A great example was Mike's tip on Chesham & Amersham which was based on inside knowledge.

    There is no such insight this time and I suspect the reason LibDem odds this morning are drifting even further is that the betting markets have this right: a Labour win.
    No need to be snide. It does not become you.

    You talk of inside knowledge, thanks to your commentary I made money on the Woking locals last year.

    I also backed the Lib Dems in Chesham and TIverton, I have losers too, I thought labour would hold on in Hartlepool

    I think the market has moved thanks to Rutherglen. The Lib Dems are formidable campaigners. I see little value in Labour here.

  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,945
    edited October 2023
    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    It’s between Con and Lab, much to the chagrin of the LD by-election machine who thought they could win from a distant 3rd.

    The supreme arrogance of the Lib Dem fanatics who expected Labour should stand aside for them in a seat labour should be the challenger in.

    This whole notion, in the "PrOgReSsIvE aLlIaNcE" sphere that all parties are chums who sit around the campfire, holding hands, and singing Kumbayah, while all hating the tories ignores the plain truth that in many parts of the country they are visceral opponents.
    Hmmm. Seem to recall there was at least as much Lab expecting the LD to stand aside. And the idea that Lab are the main challengers (because they were 2nd) has plenty of evidence to not be valid. It is too boring to repeat it all here again but in a nutshell: Track record from 3rd in particular in this parliament, easier to get Tories to vote LD than Lab in a Bluewall seat, they are better at by elections, again as also demonstrated in this parliament.

    I think the phrase 'supreme arrogance' can be rather turned on its head if Labour (and to use your word) 'fanatics' think this.

    As for the 2nd para I totally agree. We have that in our local Surrey County by election on the same day. The contest is between Tory, LD and R4GV (indy). Any of the 3 can win. Labour have put up a candidate and are even putting out a decent leaflet. Why god knows. They will get stuffed and will damage only the LDs.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Andy_JS said:

    "A mother-of-three has been left fearing for her children's safety after a violent XL Bully-type dog got into her garden and killed the family's beloved pet cat – in violent scenes caught on CCTV.

    Nima Begum, 40, was in her house when she heard a commotion outside and saw a man wrestling with the powerful animal.

    He kept shouting 'Your cat is fine', even though his pet's jaws were covered in blood.

    Ms Begum rushed outside and found her terrified cat Kiwi cowering in a tree, which she managed to get down with the help of a passer-by. But the tabby died before she could get her to a vet."

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12601837/horrifying-moment-XL-Bully-savagely-mauls-familys-cat-death.html

    This is driving me nuts. How much longer is the government going to wait? Get a fucking move on. Just order immediate muzzling NOW. The whole country wants it. Only 10% oppose

    While they dither the attacks will continue and soon enough we will be faced with an utterly hideous video of a tiny child being eaten alive

    Muzzle these fuckers. Give the owners a slapping
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,044
    Farooq said:

    Ugh, looks like I'm back off travelling again in the next day or two.
    "Til the new year" apparently

    Sympathies.

    I used to do a lot of travel, mainly for work, prior to COVID.

    SInce COVID I have realised just how much I don't like it and look for any excuse not to do it.
  • Taz said:

    Us economy still pretty strong too. ISM services was strong. Employment out today.

    And Russia continue to get their ass handed to them and Crimea might be liberated soon.

    There's a lot to be positive about currently, despite the negativity. :)
    Why do you think it will be liberated soon ?

    Because Ukraine are winning a multi-pronged conflict.

    They're breaking through the Russian defences around Verbove and close to cutting off the land bridge to Crimea.

    They're getting good at disabling/interrupting the Kerch bridge connection.

    And they're good at using drones and missiles to hit Crimea and make Sevastopol unusable for Russia's fleet.

    If Russia can't keep a fleet at Sevastopol, if they can't get reinforcements or support there, then this entire conflict was pointless.

    https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/10/05/russian-warships-leave-annexed-crimea-amid-growing-missile-threats-reports-a82668
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,712
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "A mother-of-three has been left fearing for her children's safety after a violent XL Bully-type dog got into her garden and killed the family's beloved pet cat – in violent scenes caught on CCTV.

    Nima Begum, 40, was in her house when she heard a commotion outside and saw a man wrestling with the powerful animal.

    He kept shouting 'Your cat is fine', even though his pet's jaws were covered in blood.

    Ms Begum rushed outside and found her terrified cat Kiwi cowering in a tree, which she managed to get down with the help of a passer-by. But the tabby died before she could get her to a vet."

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12601837/horrifying-moment-XL-Bully-savagely-mauls-familys-cat-death.html

    This is driving me nuts. How much longer is the government going to wait? Get a fucking move on. Just order immediate muzzling NOW. The whole country wants it. Only 10% oppose

    While they dither the attacks will continue and soon enough we will be faced with an utterly hideous video of a tiny child being eaten alive

    Muzzle these fuckers. Give the owners a slapping
    Has Lee Anderson got one?
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,044

    Taz said:

    Us economy still pretty strong too. ISM services was strong. Employment out today.

    And Russia continue to get their ass handed to them and Crimea might be liberated soon.

    There's a lot to be positive about currently, despite the negativity. :)
    Why do you think it will be liberated soon ?

    Because Ukraine are winning a multi-pronged conflict.

    They're breaking through the Russian defences around Verbove and close to cutting off the land bridge to Crimea.

    They're getting good at disabling/interrupting the Kerch bridge connection.

    And they're good at using drones and missiles to hit Crimea and make Sevastopol unusable for Russia's fleet.

    If Russia can't keep a fleet at Sevastopol, if they can't get reinforcements or support there, then this entire conflict was pointless.

    https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/10/05/russian-warships-leave-annexed-crimea-amid-growing-missile-threats-reports-a82668
    Well I hope you are right but I just feel we are here for the long run and will be discussing this for years to come

    Happy to become Tazdamus, and be wrong.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    I was a bit surprised by the comment that Labour doesn't usually do well with graduates. Is there a link for that? My impression was that we are doing much better with graduates than with DE voters, because of differential turnout.

    Yes, I've no idea where Mike got that from either.

    The standout non-graduate stat is the link to Brexit voting.

    Not only are 8/10 new graduates supportive of the Labour Party but it's the Conservative Party which is losing support among graduates, of all ages and the political map in this country is being redrawn.

    From the FT:

    https://www.ft.com/content/2b4a5e3b-3539-4991-bd54-c74fecb1a07a













  • Sandpit said:

    Us economy still pretty strong too. ISM services was strong. Employment out today.

    And Russia continue to get their ass handed to them and Crimea might be liberated soon.

    There's a lot to be positive about currently, despite the negativity. :)
    Crimea might be liberated soon. What are you smoking. This is the sort of stuff Elon Musk is tweeting now.

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1708629197617336398?s=20
    The Ukranian liberation of Crimea is going to be the standout world political event of next year.

    Just imagine how awful that is going to be for those defending Tokmak and the Kerch Bridge, knowing that they’re the last holdouts against the inevitable, and suffering daily losses of men and vehicles to do so?
    Yes. I thought it'd take 2 more years to get that far, but the way the war is progressing it looks like it could be all done by the end of next year.

    An unprecedented failure and humiliation, had they just not invaded they'd have kept Crimea and had their warships in Sevastopol, now they're going backwards not forwards.

    No wonder Putin's stooges are getting increasingly shrill in wanting the war to enter a stalemate.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,128

    Taz said:

    Us economy still pretty strong too. ISM services was strong. Employment out today.

    And Russia continue to get their ass handed to them and Crimea might be liberated soon.

    There's a lot to be positive about currently, despite the negativity. :)
    Why do you think it will be liberated soon ?

    Because Ukraine are winning a multi-pronged conflict.

    They're breaking through the Russian defences around Verbove and close to cutting off the land bridge to Crimea.

    They're getting good at disabling/interrupting the Kerch bridge connection.

    And they're good at using drones and missiles to hit Crimea and make Sevastopol unusable for Russia's fleet.

    If Russia can't keep a fleet at Sevastopol, if they can't get reinforcements or support there, then this entire conflict was pointless.

    https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/10/05/russian-warships-leave-annexed-crimea-amid-growing-missile-threats-reports-a82668
    On the last point - I couldn’t believe it when George Bush II turned down a serious proposal from the Vietnamese government to rent part of Cam Ranh Bay as a naval base.

    For those whose don’t know - it was about half the reason for the Vietnam War. Turning it back into a US base would seriously bookended the war.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,926
    Heathener said:

    If Labour have a decent conference without significant missteps, they win Mid Beds, and there is no sign of Tory poll recovery in the coming weeks I’ll be fully prepared to change my position.

    My gut has always been, since the Sunak takeover, that the next general election was likely to result in a small Labour majority or even no majority at all.

    But I am starting to move towards the idea that something very cataclysmic is awaiting the Tories, and that we might see an utter trouncing. I mean, even sub 150 seat style trouncing.

    The polls are just not moving back to them.

    There is just an air of complete hopelessness hovering around the Tory Party at the moment. It feels like people just can’t bring themselves to vote for them. Too much water under the bridge. Too much loss of faith.

    Yes, Starmer is no Blair but then Sunak is no Major. People thought the country was badly run in 1996 but it was nothing like what we face now. At what point does the choice simply become that a roll of the dice with a fresh face is worth it?

    Indeed.

    Some of you will have missed my earlier anecdote, which I offer in sincerity.

    My lifelong tory voter friend in Surrey told me this week that for the first time in her life she will not be voting Conservative at the next General Election. She has literally voted Conservative for the last three decades, including 1997, 2001 etc. She cited the latest Suella Braverman outburst as the final straw.

    When even your lifelong voters are giving up, you've had it.

    It's that bad.
    I have voted Tory in every GE I have had the vote in. Even 2019. There is just no way I can bring myself to do it next time.
  • Taz said:

    Us economy still pretty strong too. ISM services was strong. Employment out today.

    And Russia continue to get their ass handed to them and Crimea might be liberated soon.

    There's a lot to be positive about currently, despite the negativity. :)
    Why do you think it will be liberated soon ?

    Because Ukraine are winning a multi-pronged conflict.

    They're breaking through the Russian defences around Verbove and close to cutting off the land bridge to Crimea.

    They're getting good at disabling/interrupting the Kerch bridge connection.

    And they're good at using drones and missiles to hit Crimea and make Sevastopol unusable for Russia's fleet.

    If Russia can't keep a fleet at Sevastopol, if they can't get reinforcements or support there, then this entire conflict was pointless.

    https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/10/05/russian-warships-leave-annexed-crimea-amid-growing-missile-threats-reports-a82668
    This is total nonsense. Ukrainians are surrenduring en masse and running out of men.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,044
    Rishi sends, publicly of course - look at me I have my finger on the pulse, his best wishes to Holly Willoughby after the admittedly awful news some crank wanted to kidnap her and harm her,

    Third rate politician rides populist train

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/holly-willoughby-live-rishi-sunak-sends-best-wishes-to-itv-star-as-man-charged-with-kidnap-plot/ar-AA1hMf2W?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=400d07fba19d48e29bb7be881808773f&ei=16
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Taz said:

    Heathener said:

    Taz said:

    kjh said:

    Sandpit said:

    It’s between Con and Lab, much to the chagrin of the LD by-election machine who thought they could win from a distant 3rd.

    I've not heard anything (that I trust) for sometime, but the LDs certainly aren't giving up. Only yesterday I had another email trying to get me there. There is a competition on this week (not really obviously, but just as a means for boosting attendance) between the LD Eastern, London and South East Regions on who can get the most activists there this weekend.

    On the current odds quoted I would back the LDs. Who will win is another matter.
    Yes, I think Lib Dem is the value bet here. Not sure they will win but it is the value bet.
    The 'value bet' meme always makes me smile.

    Some of you bet far more than I, and many of you are statisticians in a way that I am not. However, I do tend to make money on political betting and haven't lost for some years. I think @BartholomewRoberts would criticise that approach as 'gambling' is part of the point if a bet is "value."

    However, I think it's worth pointing out that if something is 100/1 against it does not mean that one time in one hundred you are going to win. There is no law of averages and if you continue betting then each time you bet you are still only betting at 100/1 odds.

    Of course, canny betting is mostly about using your head and spotting something that the betting market doesn't. A great example was Mike's tip on Chesham & Amersham which was based on inside knowledge.

    There is no such insight this time and I suspect the reason LibDem odds this morning are drifting even further is that the betting markets have this right: a Labour win.
    No need to be snide. It does not become you.

    You talk of inside knowledge, thanks to your commentary I made money on the Woking locals last year.

    I also backed the Lib Dems in Chesham and TIverton, I have losers too, I thought labour would hold on in Hartlepool

    I think the market has moved thanks to Rutherglen. The Lib Dems are formidable campaigners. I see little value in Labour here.

    Uh? I wasn't being snide. I was being sincere about my thoughts on 'value' betting. I guess the 'smile' bit was clumsy, mea cupla.

    Well done on Woking: really glad to have assisted on that.

    xx
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,044

    Taz said:

    Us economy still pretty strong too. ISM services was strong. Employment out today.

    And Russia continue to get their ass handed to them and Crimea might be liberated soon.

    There's a lot to be positive about currently, despite the negativity. :)
    Why do you think it will be liberated soon ?

    Because Ukraine are winning a multi-pronged conflict.

    They're breaking through the Russian defences around Verbove and close to cutting off the land bridge to Crimea.

    They're getting good at disabling/interrupting the Kerch bridge connection.

    And they're good at using drones and missiles to hit Crimea and make Sevastopol unusable for Russia's fleet.

    If Russia can't keep a fleet at Sevastopol, if they can't get reinforcements or support there, then this entire conflict was pointless.

    https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/10/05/russian-warships-leave-annexed-crimea-amid-growing-missile-threats-reports-a82668
    This is total nonsense. Ukrainians are surrenduring en masse and running out of men.
    As they say in my part of the world. Are they shite.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,132
    Long piece on whether Dems should ditch Biden. I wont give a spoiler. But very interesting thoughts.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/06/opinion/joe-biden-trump-election.html

    "Most of the filing deadlines for the early primaries are approaching — Nevada and New Hampshire this month, Michigan and California and more in December. There’s still time for other Democrats to jump in the race."

    " “They seem hell bent on nominating the one Democrat who would lose to Donald Trump,” Karl Rove told me recently."
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,240
    Heathener said:

    Not only are 8/10 new graduates supportive of the Labour Party but it's the Conservative Party which is losing support among graduates, of all ages and the political map in this country is being redrawn.

    And now we see why Sunak attacked the "more people should go to university" culture in his speech...
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,926
    Taz said:

    Rishi sends, publicly of course - look at me I have my finger on the pulse, his best wishes to Holly Willoughby after the admittedly awful news some crank wanted to kidnap her and harm her,

    Third rate politician rides populist train

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/holly-willoughby-live-rishi-sunak-sends-best-wishes-to-itv-star-as-man-charged-with-kidnap-plot/ar-AA1hMf2W?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=400d07fba19d48e29bb7be881808773f&ei=16

    Just not a populist train that goes as far as Manchester?
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,044

    Taz said:

    Us economy still pretty strong too. ISM services was strong. Employment out today.

    And Russia continue to get their ass handed to them and Crimea might be liberated soon.

    There's a lot to be positive about currently, despite the negativity. :)
    Why do you think it will be liberated soon ?

    Because Ukraine are winning a multi-pronged conflict.

    They're breaking through the Russian defences around Verbove and close to cutting off the land bridge to Crimea.

    They're getting good at disabling/interrupting the Kerch bridge connection.

    And they're good at using drones and missiles to hit Crimea and make Sevastopol unusable for Russia's fleet.

    If Russia can't keep a fleet at Sevastopol, if they can't get reinforcements or support there, then this entire conflict was pointless.

    https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/10/05/russian-warships-leave-annexed-crimea-amid-growing-missile-threats-reports-a82668
    This is total nonsense. Ukrainians are surrenduring en masse and running out of men.
    More RogerNeva than RogerTrent
  • Taz said:

    Rishi sends, publicly of course - look at me I have my finger on the pulse, his best wishes to Holly Willoughby after the admittedly awful news some crank wanted to kidnap her and harm her,

    Third rate politician rides populist train

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/holly-willoughby-live-rishi-sunak-sends-best-wishes-to-itv-star-as-man-charged-with-kidnap-plot/ar-AA1hMf2W?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=400d07fba19d48e29bb7be881808773f&ei=16

    Just not a populist train that goes as far as Manchester?
    Or even as far the General Election perhaps?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,137
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "A mother-of-three has been left fearing for her children's safety after a violent XL Bully-type dog got into her garden and killed the family's beloved pet cat – in violent scenes caught on CCTV.

    Nima Begum, 40, was in her house when she heard a commotion outside and saw a man wrestling with the powerful animal.

    He kept shouting 'Your cat is fine', even though his pet's jaws were covered in blood.

    Ms Begum rushed outside and found her terrified cat Kiwi cowering in a tree, which she managed to get down with the help of a passer-by. But the tabby died before she could get her to a vet."

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12601837/horrifying-moment-XL-Bully-savagely-mauls-familys-cat-death.html

    This is driving me nuts. How much longer is the government going to wait? Get a fucking move on. Just order immediate muzzling NOW. The whole country wants it. Only 10% oppose

    While they dither the attacks will continue and soon enough we will be faced with an utterly hideous video of a tiny child being eaten alive

    Muzzle these fuckers. Give the owners a slapping
    Put it down as another useless intervention by our PM.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Very good news in the housing market as house prices continue to fall off their obscenely high prices, while wages continue to rise, so the house price/income ratio continues to move in the right direction for once: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67028467

    In what is overall a terrible cost of living crisis for many, its good to get some unabashed good news here.

    And remarkably the sky hasn't fallen despite all the concerns about 'negative equity' that people used to cry crocodile tears over when saying there needed to be a house price correction.

    Hopefully home ownership rates can start to turn around and go in the right direction too with house prices falling again, just like they reached record highs after the correction in the 1990s.

    Not just that oil prices are plummeting too so thats good news.
    Quite a significant move this week, not sure why that is to be honest.

    Not noticed anything in the forecourts yet, but since the movement only started a few days ago hopefully that feeds through too soon. Petrol is far too expensive currently.
    Where do you fill up ? Your commuting mileage isn't dissimilar to mine from what I can work out here..

    Your nearest Costco at Saints is 146.9 for standard unleaded. If you're vaguely adjacent to one of the qualifying members criteria it's worth a go to try and get membership.
    I fill up at Asda, its definitely more expensive than Costco but not tremendously worse off.

    Difference is I do my shopping there anyway, so it takes no extra mileage to fill up while there. Costco if I was shopping there I'd fill up at, but I don't feel like its worth my time or the petrol consumed to drive there when its not on my route.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937

    Taz said:

    Us economy still pretty strong too. ISM services was strong. Employment out today.

    And Russia continue to get their ass handed to them and Crimea might be liberated soon.

    There's a lot to be positive about currently, despite the negativity. :)
    Why do you think it will be liberated soon ?

    Because Ukraine are winning a multi-pronged conflict.

    They're breaking through the Russian defences around Verbove and close to cutting off the land bridge to Crimea.

    They're getting good at disabling/interrupting the Kerch bridge connection.

    And they're good at using drones and missiles to hit Crimea and make Sevastopol unusable for Russia's fleet.

    If Russia can't keep a fleet at Sevastopol, if they can't get reinforcements or support there, then this entire conflict was pointless.

    https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/10/05/russian-warships-leave-annexed-crimea-amid-growing-missile-threats-reports-a82668
    This is total nonsense. Ukrainians are surrenduring en masse and running out of men.
    There will be some huge POW swaps then, with all those Russians surrendering en masse....
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,945
    Heathener said:

    Taz said:

    kjh said:

    Sandpit said:

    It’s between Con and Lab, much to the chagrin of the LD by-election machine who thought they could win from a distant 3rd.

    I've not heard anything (that I trust) for sometime, but the LDs certainly aren't giving up. Only yesterday I had another email trying to get me there. There is a competition on this week (not really obviously, but just as a means for boosting attendance) between the LD Eastern, London and South East Regions on who can get the most activists there this weekend.

    On the current odds quoted I would back the LDs. Who will win is another matter.
    Yes, I think Lib Dem is the value bet here. Not sure they will win but it is the value bet.
    The 'value bet' meme always makes me smile.

    Some of you bet far more than I, and many of you are statisticians in a way that I am not. However, I do tend to make money on political betting and haven't lost for some years. I think @BartholomewRoberts would criticise that approach as 'gambling' is part of the point if a bet is "value."

    However, I think it's worth pointing out that if something is 100/1 against it does not mean that one time in one hundred you are going to win. There is no law of averages and if you continue betting then each time you bet you are still only betting at 100/1 odds.

    Of course, canny betting is mostly about using your head and spotting something that the betting market doesn't. A great example was Mike's tip on Chesham & Amersham which was based on inside knowledge.

    There is no such insight this time and I suspect the reason LibDem odds this morning are drifting even further is that the betting markets have this right: a Labour win.
    There seems to be very little information out there (which is a surprise), I suspect because the canvas data can't be trusted. I know from LD canvassers of a few weeks ago that the anti Tory vote and soft Tory vote did not know where to go. Do they vote Lab or LD or maybe the soft Tories revert to Tory to prevent a Lab win because they don't trust the LDs will win. It is confused.

    I suspect Lab have shortened just because of yesterday's by election. That is all and that makes sense.

    But when you say the value bet meme makes you smile are you really saying that if the LDs or Tories were at 100/1 for Mid Beds now you wouldn't back them even if you expected Lab to win. It would be nuts not to when you know it is a 3 horse race even if Labour are the favourites. Both would be value bets.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,044
    Heathener said:

    Taz said:

    Heathener said:

    Taz said:

    kjh said:

    Sandpit said:

    It’s between Con and Lab, much to the chagrin of the LD by-election machine who thought they could win from a distant 3rd.

    I've not heard anything (that I trust) for sometime, but the LDs certainly aren't giving up. Only yesterday I had another email trying to get me there. There is a competition on this week (not really obviously, but just as a means for boosting attendance) between the LD Eastern, London and South East Regions on who can get the most activists there this weekend.

    On the current odds quoted I would back the LDs. Who will win is another matter.
    Yes, I think Lib Dem is the value bet here. Not sure they will win but it is the value bet.
    The 'value bet' meme always makes me smile.

    Some of you bet far more than I, and many of you are statisticians in a way that I am not. However, I do tend to make money on political betting and haven't lost for some years. I think @BartholomewRoberts would criticise that approach as 'gambling' is part of the point if a bet is "value."

    However, I think it's worth pointing out that if something is 100/1 against it does not mean that one time in one hundred you are going to win. There is no law of averages and if you continue betting then each time you bet you are still only betting at 100/1 odds.

    Of course, canny betting is mostly about using your head and spotting something that the betting market doesn't. A great example was Mike's tip on Chesham & Amersham which was based on inside knowledge.

    There is no such insight this time and I suspect the reason LibDem odds this morning are drifting even further is that the betting markets have this right: a Labour win.
    No need to be snide. It does not become you.

    You talk of inside knowledge, thanks to your commentary I made money on the Woking locals last year.

    I also backed the Lib Dems in Chesham and TIverton, I have losers too, I thought labour would hold on in Hartlepool

    I think the market has moved thanks to Rutherglen. The Lib Dems are formidable campaigners. I see little value in Labour here.

    Uh? I wasn't being snide. I was being sincere about my thoughts on 'value' betting. I guess the 'smile' bit was clumsy, mea cupla.

    Well done on Woking: really glad to have assisted on that.

    xx
    Always be grateful for that. If I ever see anyone call you a troll I will always refer to that. How many others who post here have offered insight that has helped posters with bets ?

    That is why I think people should listen to your anecdotes too about how a certain sector of the electorate is thinking,
  • Taz said:

    Us economy still pretty strong too. ISM services was strong. Employment out today.

    And Russia continue to get their ass handed to them and Crimea might be liberated soon.

    There's a lot to be positive about currently, despite the negativity. :)
    Why do you think it will be liberated soon ?

    Because Ukraine are winning a multi-pronged conflict.

    They're breaking through the Russian defences around Verbove and close to cutting off the land bridge to Crimea.

    They're getting good at disabling/interrupting the Kerch bridge connection.

    And they're good at using drones and missiles to hit Crimea and make Sevastopol unusable for Russia's fleet.

    If Russia can't keep a fleet at Sevastopol, if they can't get reinforcements or support there, then this entire conflict was pointless.

    https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/10/05/russian-warships-leave-annexed-crimea-amid-growing-missile-threats-reports-a82668
    This is total nonsense. Ukrainians are surrenduring en masse and running out of men.
    Well that didn't take long, did it now? @PBModerator

    Russian warships are retreating so they don't join the Moskva and other flagships at the bottom of the sea, but you want us to believe the Ukrainians are 'surrenduring'.

    Auf wiedersehen, pet.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,004
    Really?

    The AIDS generation and those immidiately afterwards were careful about sexual relationships, but the new teenagers have no such boundaries.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/uk-sexually-transmitted-infections-gonorrhoea-syphilis-sti/


  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "A mother-of-three has been left fearing for her children's safety after a violent XL Bully-type dog got into her garden and killed the family's beloved pet cat – in violent scenes caught on CCTV.

    Nima Begum, 40, was in her house when she heard a commotion outside and saw a man wrestling with the powerful animal.

    He kept shouting 'Your cat is fine', even though his pet's jaws were covered in blood.

    Ms Begum rushed outside and found her terrified cat Kiwi cowering in a tree, which she managed to get down with the help of a passer-by. But the tabby died before she could get her to a vet."

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12601837/horrifying-moment-XL-Bully-savagely-mauls-familys-cat-death.html

    This is driving me nuts. How much longer is the government going to wait? Get a fucking move on. Just order immediate muzzling NOW. The whole country wants it. Only 10% oppose

    While they dither the attacks will continue and soon enough we will be faced with an utterly hideous video of a tiny child being eaten alive

    Muzzle these fuckers. Give the owners a slapping
    Put it down as another useless intervention by our PM.
    The Tories can go fuck themselves. Everything they do is performative. Nothing ever actually happens. Apart from cancelling HS2

    If there is an issue with muzzling these dogs then get on TV and explain the problem. What is it?? In the last three days a man has been killed and a toddler nearly lost a leg


  • kjh said:

    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    It’s between Con and Lab, much to the chagrin of the LD by-election machine who thought they could win from a distant 3rd.

    The supreme arrogance of the Lib Dem fanatics who expected Labour should stand aside for them in a seat labour should be the challenger in.

    This whole notion, in the "PrOgReSsIvE aLlIaNcE" sphere that all parties are chums who sit around the campfire, holding hands, and singing Kumbayah, while all hating the tories ignores the plain truth that in many parts of the country they are visceral opponents.
    Hmmm. Seem to recall there was at least as much Lab expecting the LD to stand aside. And the idea that Lab are the main challengers (because they were 2nd) has plenty of evidence to not be valid. It is too boring to repeat it all here again but in a nutshell: Track record from 3rd in particular in this parliament, easier to get Tories to vote LD than Lab in a Bluewall seat, they are better at by elections, again as also demonstrated in this parliament.

    I think the phrase 'supreme arrogance' can be rather turned on its head if Labour (and to use your word) 'fanatics' think this.

    As for the 2nd para I totally agree. We have that in our local Surrey County by election on the same day. The contest is between Tory, LD and R4GV (indy). Any of the 3 can win. Labour have put up a candidate and are even putting out a decent leaflet. Why god knows. They will get stuffed and will damage only the LDs.
    Part of the question is- what kind of seat is Mid Beds? There are two sorts of place where the Lib Dems are doing really well at the moment- really upmarket commuter belt (Surrey, Buckinghamshire, that sort of place, but not Kent or Essex, leafy Remania) and deeply rural England. Neither of those are places where Labour can really touch the Conservatives. I suspect that Mid Beds doesn't quite tick either box convincingly.

    In terms of 2024, it doesn't really matter- there aren't many seats in England where it isn't blindingly obvious who the main anti-Conservative challenger is.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,661
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    PT - I've noticed that the most common phrase from our periodic Putin trolls is "Leon has a point".

    Vlad is just returning the favour after I said he was right about Woke
    That must be it.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,363
    Nigelb said:

    (FPT)

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    There’s a concealed warning here for Labour. Which they won’t heed in their justified glee over a triumphant victory

    The SNP, inter alia, are a cautionary tale of what happens to a left wing party that gets consumed by identity politics and Wokeness. In the end the voters get sick of it and dump you

    I fully expect Labour to follow the SNP’s example when they reach power. They too are drenched in The Woke

    You say 'In the end the voters get sick of it and dump you' referring to woke.

    After all these years of posting about woke here there are only 2 of you for whom this is a major issue. The rest of us think your obsession is bonkers, I suspect that is true for the rest of the population.

    What will probably bring down a Labour government is what brings down all Governments. They get complacent, corruption, cockups, the voters want a change, etc, etc

    Woke will be 99 in a list of 100 reasons.

    You are obsessed. And that is coming from me who detests wokeness.
    This is a really dumb take when Woke issues have obviously contributed, in a major way, to the problems of the SNP

    1. Their obsession with Woke gender woo has turned off a lot of voters and activists and caused bitter infighting (cf Joanna Cherry)

    2. Their overall Wokeness means they chose the worse Woke candidate for leader - Yousaf - over the obviously superior but decidedly non woke Forbes

    So, yes, woke was a big thing in this election. Its probably the first UK election where that has been the case

    There will be more. Starmer js quite Woke and his party is often super Woke. Yet the voters are not. I spy trouble ahead (but only after Starmer romps home with a majority)
    Indeed, by 2026 Starmer will likely have fixed the economy, introduced a workable and affordable plan for long term care, stopped the boats, ended the war on Ukraine on its own terms and brought waiting lists down to one month for all. However his government will collapse because the Darren Jones vegan wing will be at odds with the Thangam Debbinaire vegan wing over whether venison really is vegan or not.

    I am baffled why people apart from Leon and myself can't see this.
    Look at America. That’s where we’re headed. Massive culture wars over Wokeness

    I really wish this wasn’t the case. But it is. Until AI takes over
    Who, on here, stokes culture wars more than you?


    I’ve been out in the Maldives with a bunch of people including a well known owner of multiple UK magazines. We’ve had a laugh - he’s a good guy - but he is clearly a lefty and he gets really wound up by the word Woke. It obviously distresses him. Which makes it a successful pejorative and I shall continue to use it as much as I can.

    It is also extremely useful in itself. It really does describe SOMETHING - and we all know it when we see it

    Strangely, we don't. Some people see it everywhere, a phantom haunting the minds of obsessional weirdos. Others see it here and there. Others see it not at all. We don't all agree on what woke is, or whether this or that thing qualifies.
    Anyone who is annoyed, hurt, or distressed by the word Woke, is Woke

    There. That’s an easy definition for you
    But I'm not annoyed, hurt or distressed by the word Woke. And I am Woke. Try again.
    No. It’s not an exclusive definition. If you are annoyed hurt etc by Woke you are Woke. But there are other Woke people who don’t realise Woke is an insult, because they’re stupid, so they don’t get hurt offended etc. I guess you’re one of them?
    Of course it's not an insult. It is a word created by Woke people to describe the act of being Woke, which they consider to be a good thing. It was subsequently picked up be people opposed to things like equality and racial justice, who consider Woke to be a bad thing, who have tried to make it an insult. Low grade basic reactionaries who get annoyed and hurt by Woke because they're stupid or perhaps feel threatened buy into this shit. I guess you're one of them?
    The thing is do you think equality is ever achievable. That men or women can be completely equal or the races completely equal. Sometimes measures to achieve equality can cause more harm than good.
    "Races" don't exist. People from different "races" are completely equal because there's no substance to how people have been divided into different "races".
    Except that, genetically, there is

    There is broad agreement that humanity can be usefully divided into three broad races - African, Asian, European (for want of better terms).
    This is untrue. Anyone saying this is stupid and/or a racist. Leon is the latter and probably the former.
    Do please withdraw that remark. I’m right

    “Several direct-to-consumer genetic testing companies report how much DNA a person has inherited from prehistoric humans, such as Neanderthals and Denisovans. This information is generally reported as a percentage that suggests how much DNA an individual has inherited from these ancestors. The percentage of Neanderthal DNA in modern humans is zero or close to zero in people from African populations, and is about 1 to 2 percent in people of European or Asian background. The percentage of Denisovan DNA is highest in the Melanesian population (4 to 6 percent), lower in other Southeast Asian and Pacific Islander populations, and very low or undetectable elsewhere in the world.”

    THat is a lot of bollocks (so to speak). Humans have about 97% of DNA in common with other chimps.

    https://bmcgenomics.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12864-020-06962-8
    For these purposes "has x% of DNA in common with" is a very imprecise statement, meaning very different things with regard to modern primates and extinct near-human populations.

    As far as the Denisovans (who as far as we know comprised at least two separate populations as distinct from each other as they are from modern humans) are concerned, the DNA 'in common' is largely SNPs associated with the immune system.

    It's a very complex subject, but large scale population differences in DNA don't bear much relation to the concept of 'race' we've had rolling around since Victorian times.

    Quite. But in a non-genetic forum, 97% of all DNA in common means what it means up front. The stuff from the genetic testing firms is obviously much more heavily qualified in several ways. I'm rusty on recent developments, though, so hesitate to be too specific.

    As for race, the similarities in DNA etc are far, far greater than the differences.
This discussion has been closed.