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Is LAB going to make a by-election gain tonight? – politicalbetting.com

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  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:

    Farooq said:

    viewcode said:

    Cookie said:

    algarkirk said:

    Cookie said:

    So after all that, Labour are going to do exactly the same. Come on Labour, pull your fingers out:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/10/05/keir-starmer-will-not-commit-reverse-rishi-sunak-hs2-cut/

    Not fair to Sir K. He has unavoidably not made a commitment. To do so is to fall into the trap set for him - it's a massive spending commitment he cannot make before an election. Sir K can't commit to an extra billion let alone many billions. But he has left the door open. Expect lots more of this.
    Indeed. The Tories must think Royale is stupid. He is many things, but stupid is not one of them.
    But in theory this isn't about money. Both sides are saying they'd spend the money
    This article should be read by everyone interested in politics and economics

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/04/financial-crisis-political-class-lies/
    You may be interested to know that I think he's 100% wrong. I'm going thru Peter Turchin's "End Times"[1] at the moment and I think he (Turchin) is right. The combination of popular immiseration and elite overproduction have led to the potential for revolution, where people qualified to wield power but denied it utilise disaffected masses to overthrow regimes. Allister Heath's prescription would just make the miserable poor more miserable and more poor, and that'll only make things worse.

    Recall my past comments on Pensionerism. The preponderance of wealthy elderly means that old ideas will persist even when they stop working, and new ideas for a new age will die stillborn. The cure you prefer would have worked in a neoliberal age, but that age stopped around 2015. The current condition - retreating globalisation, less trade, more migration waves - require new solutions, and the old ways won't work. We have just spent two years pushing on a string with higher interest rates, and were surprised it didn't work. Making mistakes is one thing, but failing to learn from them is another.

    [1] https://www.waterstones.com/book/end-times/peter-turchin//9780241553480
    Who exactly is qualified to wield power but also willing to utilise disaffected masses to overthrow regimes?

    My judgement of the former would be somewhat* tempered by the latter.

    *utterly
    In Turchin terms, "elites" is a simple synonym for "power havers". "Elite overproduction" is when people capable of wielding power (I used the word "qualified" above, which misled, my apologies) are denied it thru simple lack of powerful positions. He uses it to refer to well-educated people with professional/academic positions who have sufficient interest in the world and sufficient time to formulate theories.

    Here's a thing: Lenin trained to be a lawyer, Stalin a priest, Mao a teacher/librarian, Hitler an artist. All in different circumstances would be comfortable professionals. But lacking a outlet for their gifts and surrounded by disaffected, they went into politics, won, overthrew the existing order and remade the world...and we spent fifty years cleaning up after them.

    Although not in the same league (obvs) consider somebody like Matthew Goodwin. A man of considerable gifts and academic achievement, he has the time and intelligence to build an underlying theory of the world and the desire to change the world accordingly. But in a nation of 68 million people (69, 70...remember, it's increasing) and only 650 seats at the top level and a few thou(?) at devolved level, he cannot wield the power he believes to be his right.

    So my answer to your question is "...well-educated people/autodidacts with professional/academic positions who have sufficient interest in the world, sufficient time to formulate theories, and sufficient resources to pursue power..."

    Does that answer your question?
    So you are suggesting Matt Goodwin is a future dictator of the United Kingdom? Sounds more like a spoof
    😆easily my favourite post of the week
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813
    +2350 Lab for me
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,633
    edited October 2023
    viewcode said:

    Farooq said:

    viewcode said:

    Cookie said:

    algarkirk said:

    Cookie said:

    So after all that, Labour are going to do exactly the same. Come on Labour, pull your fingers out:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/10/05/keir-starmer-will-not-commit-reverse-rishi-sunak-hs2-cut/

    Not fair to Sir K. He has unavoidably not made a commitment. To do so is to fall into the trap set for him - it's a massive spending commitment he cannot make before an election. Sir K can't commit to an extra billion let alone many billions. But he has left the door open. Expect lots more of this.
    Indeed. The Tories must think Royale is stupid. He is many things, but stupid is not one of them.
    But in theory this isn't about money. Both sides are saying they'd spend the money
    This article should be read by everyone interested in politics and economics

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/04/financial-crisis-political-class-lies/
    You may be interested to know that I think he's 100% wrong. I'm going thru Peter Turchin's "End Times"[1] at the moment and I think he (Turchin) is right. The combination of popular immiseration and elite overproduction have led to the potential for revolution, where people qualified to wield power but denied it utilise disaffected masses to overthrow regimes. Allister Heath's prescription would just make the miserable poor more miserable and more poor, and that'll only make things worse.

    Recall my past comments on Pensionerism. The preponderance of wealthy elderly means that old ideas will persist even when they stop working, and new ideas for a new age will die stillborn. The cure you prefer would have worked in a neoliberal age, but that age stopped around 2015. The current condition - retreating globalisation, less trade, more migration waves - require new solutions, and the old ways won't work. We have just spent two years pushing on a string with higher interest rates, and were surprised it didn't work. Making mistakes is one thing, but failing to learn from them is another.

    [1] https://www.waterstones.com/book/end-times/peter-turchin//9780241553480
    Who exactly is qualified to wield power but also willing to utilise disaffected masses to overthrow regimes?

    My judgement of the former would be somewhat* tempered by the latter.

    *utterly
    In Turchin terms, "elites" is a simple synonym for "power havers". "Elite overproduction" is when people capable of wielding power (I used the word "qualified" above, which misled, my apologies) are denied it thru simple lack of powerful positions. He uses it to refer to well-educated people with professional/academic positions who have sufficient interest in the world and sufficient time to formulate theories.

    Here's a thing: Lenin trained to be a lawyer, Stalin a priest, Mao a teacher/librarian, Hitler an artist. All in different circumstances would be comfortable professionals. But lacking a outlet for their gifts and surrounded by disaffected, they went into politics, won, overthrew the existing order and remade the world...and we spent fifty years cleaning up after them.

    Although not in the same league (obvs) consider somebody like Matthew Goodwin. A man of considerable gifts and academic achievement, he has the time and intelligence to build an underlying theory of the world and the desire to change the world accordingly. But in a nation of 68 million people (69, 70...remember, it's increasing) and only 650 seats at the top level and a few thou(?) at devolved level, he cannot wield the power he believes to be his right.

    So my answer to your question is "...well-educated people/autodidacts with professional/academic positions who have sufficient interest in the world, sufficient time to formulate theories, and sufficient resources to pursue power..."

    Does that answer your question?
    I get the theory. Didn't someone say of the French Revolution that it happened not because the peasants were starving, but because the lawyers were?

    If so, I think that we are approaching that state, with a super rich neauvoux aristocracy, and a lot of white collar millennials living day by day. It isn't a stable situation in the long term.
  • Farooq said:

    viewcode said:

    Farooq said:

    viewcode said:

    Cookie said:

    algarkirk said:

    Cookie said:

    So after all that, Labour are going to do exactly the same. Come on Labour, pull your fingers out:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/10/05/keir-starmer-will-not-commit-reverse-rishi-sunak-hs2-cut/

    Not fair to Sir K. He has unavoidably not made a commitment. To do so is to fall into the trap set for him - it's a massive spending commitment he cannot make before an election. Sir K can't commit to an extra billion let alone many billions. But he has left the door open. Expect lots more of this.
    Indeed. The Tories must think Royale is stupid. He is many things, but stupid is not one of them.
    But in theory this isn't about money. Both sides are saying they'd spend the money
    This article should be read by everyone interested in politics and economics

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/04/financial-crisis-political-class-lies/
    You may be interested to know that I think he's 100% wrong. I'm going thru Peter Turchin's "End Times"[1] at the moment and I think he (Turchin) is right. The combination of popular immiseration and elite overproduction have led to the potential for revolution, where people qualified to wield power but denied it utilise disaffected masses to overthrow regimes. Allister Heath's prescription would just make the miserable poor more miserable and more poor, and that'll only make things worse.

    Recall my past comments on Pensionerism. The preponderance of wealthy elderly means that old ideas will persist even when they stop working, and new ideas for a new age will die stillborn. The cure you prefer would have worked in a neoliberal age, but that age stopped around 2015. The current condition - retreating globalisation, less trade, more migration waves - require new solutions, and the old ways won't work. We have just spent two years pushing on a string with higher interest rates, and were surprised it didn't work. Making mistakes is one thing, but failing to learn from them is another.

    [1] https://www.waterstones.com/book/end-times/peter-turchin//9780241553480
    Who exactly is qualified to wield power but also willing to utilise disaffected masses to overthrow regimes?

    My judgement of the former would be somewhat* tempered by the latter.

    *utterly
    In Turchin terms, "elites" is a simple synonym for "power havers". "Elite overproduction" is when people capable of wielding power (I used the word "qualified" above, which misled, my apologies) are denied it thru simple lack of powerful positions. He uses it to refer to well-educated people with professional/academic positions who have sufficient interest in the world and sufficient time to formulate theories.

    Here's a thing: Lenin trained to be a lawyer, Stalin a priest, Mao a teacher/librarian, Hitler an artist. All in different circumstances would be comfortable professionals. But lacking a outlet for their gifts and surrounded by disaffected, they went into politics, won, overthrew the existing order and remade the world...and we spent fifty years cleaning up after them.

    Although not in the same league (obvs) consider somebody like Matthew Goodwin. A man of considerable gifts and academic achievement, he has the time and intelligence to build an underlying theory of the world and the desire to change the world accordingly. But in a nation of 68 million people (69, 70...remember, it's increasing) and only 650 seats at the top level and a few thou(?) at devolved level, he cannot wield the power he believes to be his right.

    So my answer to your question is "...well-educated people/autodidacts with professional/academic positions who have sufficient interest in the world, sufficient time to formulate theories, and sufficient resources to pursue power..."

    Does that answer your question?
    Yes, and it's intensely interesting too, thanks.

    Slight quibble. I think Lenin was politically motivated at a very early age by his brother's troubles but I'm no Leninologist so I might be wrong.
    I know modern history has distorted our perspective but many people of the time were very impressed with Adolf Hitler. He was also named man of the year once.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    edited October 2023
    Tres said:

    +1690 Lab

    The William of Orange option. 🙂
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    BBC Scotland by-election special is available elsewhere on the BBC News Channel.
  • Keith Brown getting the excuses in early on BBC1 Scotland.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    Farooq said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Tres said:

    +1690 Lab

    The William of Orange option. 🙂
    Actually kinda surprised nobody said 1488 and glad they didn't.
    Nobody went for 1314?
  • TresTres Posts: 2,695
    aberdeen north and dundee east are never ever ever going to go tory
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,586
    On the theory that Police Scotland tiptoe around elections, the charges should be next week.
  • Curtice has spoken and it's bad news for Tories and the SNP. Deposit loss for the Blues looking possible.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075
    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:

    Farooq said:

    viewcode said:

    Cookie said:

    algarkirk said:

    Cookie said:

    So after all that, Labour are going to do exactly the same. Come on Labour, pull your fingers out:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/10/05/keir-starmer-will-not-commit-reverse-rishi-sunak-hs2-cut/

    Not fair to Sir K. He has unavoidably not made a commitment. To do so is to fall into the trap set for him - it's a massive spending commitment he cannot make before an election. Sir K can't commit to an extra billion let alone many billions. But he has left the door open. Expect lots more of this.
    Indeed. The Tories must think Royale is stupid. He is many things, but stupid is not one of them.
    But in theory this isn't about money. Both sides are saying they'd spend the money
    This article should be read by everyone interested in politics and economics

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/04/financial-crisis-political-class-lies/
    You may be interested to know that I think he's 100% wrong. I'm going thru Peter Turchin's "End Times"[1] at the moment and I think he (Turchin) is right. The combination of popular immiseration and elite overproduction have led to the potential for revolution, where people qualified to wield power but denied it utilise disaffected masses to overthrow regimes. Allister Heath's prescription would just make the miserable poor more miserable and more poor, and that'll only make things worse.

    Recall my past comments on Pensionerism. The preponderance of wealthy elderly means that old ideas will persist even when they stop working, and new ideas for a new age will die stillborn. The cure you prefer would have worked in a neoliberal age, but that age stopped around 2015. The current condition - retreating globalisation, less trade, more migration waves - require new solutions, and the old ways won't work. We have just spent two years pushing on a string with higher interest rates, and were surprised it didn't work. Making mistakes is one thing, but failing to learn from them is another.

    [1] https://www.waterstones.com/book/end-times/peter-turchin//9780241553480
    Who exactly is qualified to wield power but also willing to utilise disaffected masses to overthrow regimes?

    My judgement of the former would be somewhat* tempered by the latter.

    *utterly
    In Turchin terms, "elites" is a simple synonym for "power havers". "Elite overproduction" is when people capable of wielding power (I used the word "qualified" above, which misled, my apologies) are denied it thru simple lack of powerful positions. He uses it to refer to well-educated people with professional/academic positions who have sufficient interest in the world and sufficient time to formulate theories.

    Here's a thing: Lenin trained to be a lawyer, Stalin a priest, Mao a teacher/librarian, Hitler an artist. All in different circumstances would be comfortable professionals. But lacking a outlet for their gifts and surrounded by disaffected, they went into politics, won, overthrew the existing order and remade the world...and we spent fifty years cleaning up after them.

    Although not in the same league (obvs) consider somebody like Matthew Goodwin. A man of considerable gifts and academic achievement, he has the time and intelligence to build an underlying theory of the world and the desire to change the world accordingly. But in a nation of 68 million people (69, 70...remember, it's increasing) and only 650 seats at the top level and a few thou(?) at devolved level, he cannot wield the power he believes to be his right.

    So my answer to your question is "...well-educated people/autodidacts with professional/academic positions who have sufficient interest in the world, sufficient time to formulate theories, and sufficient resources to pursue power..."

    Does that answer your question?
    So you are suggesting Matt Goodwin is a future dictator of the United Kingdom? Sounds more like a spoof
    No. I gave him a an example of an overproduced elite. As the number of the former increase, and the number of the immiserated poor similarly increase, the probability of revolution increases. He will orobably not become UK dictator, any more than an individual pebble can be predicted to cause the avalanche. But as the number goes up, the probability that somebody will rises.

    Recall that Farage was a metals trader. Everybody laughed at him. Then he won.
  • Curtice has spoken and it's bad news for Tories and the SNP. Deposit loss for the Blues looking possible.

    Well, HS2 was never, ever going to go to Glasgow, was it? :lol:
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    edited October 2023
    Turnout = 37.19%. Around 30,000 votes.

    My prediction was 40%, although I forget to post it on here. 50% was always too high a forecast IMO.
  • 37.19% turnout
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,188
    Well what do you know, most eligible voters did nae bother
  • If Keith Brown is right, and the Tory vote has collapsed to Lab then this could be a very interesting result indeed.
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,293

    If Keith Brown is right, and the Tory vote has collapsed to Lab then this could be a very interesting result indeed.

    If the by-election happens, East Kilbride looks very much in play
  • 37.19% turnout

    Back in 2012, Manchester Central = 18.2%
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553

    37.19% turnout

    Back in 2012, Manchester Central = 18.2%
    Leeds Central 1999 was around 19% IIRC.
  • 37.19% turnout

    Back in 2012, Manchester Central = 18.2%
    Very high population of students and generally lazy bastards.

    (Source: am Mancunian)
  • Andy_JS said:

    37.19% turnout

    Back in 2012, Manchester Central = 18.2%
    Leeds Central 1999 was around 19% IIRC.
    19.6%
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,586
    Benchmarks from Britain Predicts:

    Labour margin of win in Rutherglen today will imply X Lab seats in Scotland

    +15pts: 29 seats (+28) on 2019
    +10pts: 21 seats
    +5pts: 12 seats
    +0pts: 3 seats
    -5pts: 2 seats
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    edited October 2023
    Andy_JS said:

    Turnout = 37.19%. Around 30,000 votes.

    My prediction was 40%, although I forget to post it on here. 50% was always too high a forecast IMO.

    No swing -> SNP maj approx 2900
    5% swing to Lab -> Lab maj 100
    10% swing to Lab -> Lab maj 3100
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,188
    carnforth said:

    Benchmarks from Britain Predicts:

    Labour margin of win in Rutherglen today will imply X Lab seats in Scotland

    +15pts: 29 seats (+28) on 2019
    +10pts: 21 seats
    +5pts: 12 seats
    +0pts: 3 seats
    -5pts: 2 seats

    10% is 3100 or so.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,586
    edited October 2023
    Pulpstar said:

    carnforth said:

    Benchmarks from Britain Predicts:

    Labour margin of win in Rutherglen today will imply X Lab seats in Scotland

    +15pts: 29 seats (+28) on 2019
    +10pts: 21 seats
    +5pts: 12 seats
    +0pts: 3 seats
    -5pts: 2 seats

    10% is 3100 or so.
    ...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    BBC by election special suggests sources at count saying a 7-8% swing from SNP to Labour since 2019 and Labour will clearly gain the seat from the SNP. The Tories will likely lose their deposit
  • viewcode said:

    I have no idea who will win tonight, have not researched the situation and so cannot predict. Best of luck to all those of you who have placed a bet and I hope you make a profit.

    You shouldn't let that be an impediment, no one else has.

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    On a night when Scottish Independence hangs in the balance, Penny pans Starmer for failure to curtail Drakeford's plans for Welsh Independence

    https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/senior-cabinet-minister-told-outright-27839685
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    carnforth said:

    Benchmarks from Britain Predicts:

    Labour margin of win in Rutherglen today will imply X Lab seats in Scotland

    +15pts: 29 seats (+28) on 2019
    +10pts: 21 seats
    +5pts: 12 seats
    +0pts: 3 seats
    -5pts: 2 seats

    Lab +14pts is the point at which they'd win any East Kilbride by election on a matching result.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    HYUFD said:

    BBC by election special suggests sources at count saying a 7-8% swing from SNP to Labour since 2019 and Labour will clearly gain the seat from the SNP. The Tories will likely lose their deposit

    Around 1300-1900.

    Game on :)
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    On a night when Scottish Independence hangs in the balance, Penny pans Starmer for failure to curtail Drakeford's plans for Welsh Independence

    https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/senior-cabinet-minister-told-outright-27839685

    Penny will learn,

    You don’t shake The Drake.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,664
    Farooq said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Tres said:

    +1690 Lab

    The William of Orange option. 🙂
    Actually kinda surprised nobody said 1488 and glad they didn't.
    I wrote 1707 and then thought better of it.
  • HYUFD said:

    BBC by election special suggests sources at count saying a 7-8% swing from SNP to Labour since 2019 and Labour will clearly gain the seat from the SNP. The Tories will likely lose their deposit

    A seismically modest swing..
  • Another Tory dividend. Good work, especially when the turnout was a measly 37%.


  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    Listening to politicians arguing with each other before a by-election result is as infuriating as ever.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918

    HYUFD said:

    BBC by election special suggests sources at count saying a 7-8% swing from SNP to Labour since 2019 and Labour will clearly gain the seat from the SNP. The Tories will likely lose their deposit

    A seismically modest swing..
    Not that modest, the SNP would lose over 10 MPs to Labour on that swing
  • Farooq said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Tres said:

    +1690 Lab

    The William of Orange option. 🙂
    Actually kinda surprised nobody said 1488 and glad they didn't.
    I wrote 1707 and then thought better of it.
    1603 was right there.
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,904
    HYUFD said:

    BBC by election special suggests sources at count saying a 7-8% swing from SNP to Labour since 2019 and Labour will clearly gain the seat from the SNP. The Tories will likely lose their deposit

    Are you still to be counted as a Conservative, young HY?

    Just wondering....

    But if so, any particular reason?
  • 30 minutes to declaration, apparently.
  • Lab briefing 55% of the vote share.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553

    Lab briefing 55% of the vote share.

    That would be roughly a 20% lead and a 15% swing.
  • Andy_JS said:

    Lab briefing 55% of the vote share.

    That would be roughly a 20% lead and a 15% swing.
    HOO BOY.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275

    Lab briefing 55% of the vote share.

    Surely not , that would be an incredible result .
  • AramintaMoonbeamQCAramintaMoonbeamQC Posts: 3,855
    edited October 2023
    nico679 said:

    Lab briefing 55% of the vote share.

    Surely not , that would be an incredible result .
    I would not be surprised at all by that, tbh.

    It is back to pre Indyref levels of Labour vote. They got 60% in 2010. The SNP should be bricking it if the result is anything like that.

    Update: Times Scotland political editor saying 15% swing.
  • Andy_JS said:

    Lab briefing 55% of the vote share.

    That would be roughly a 20% lead and a 15% swing.
    HOO BOY.
    SNP getting stepmommed.
  • Count faster, Weegies.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647
    Anas Sarwar supports 20mph limits in all urban areas.

    Just saying.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-56750836

  • Farooq said:

    Count faster, Weegies.

    We're lucky they're counting overnight at all! Some elections in Scotland start counting the next day :disappointed:
    Tbf, some of the ballot boxes have to come back on a boat...
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,625
    If Liz Truss hadn't blown up her premiership, her snub of Nicola Sturgeon would be looking like a political masterstroke at the moment.
  • You wouldn't give Ross Greer a job washing up, would you? Unemployable.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,664
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Count faster, Weegies.

    We're lucky they're counting overnight at all! Some elections in Scotland start counting the next day :disappointed:
    Tbf, some of the ballot boxes have to come back on a boat...
    I wonder what the highest number of inhabited islands in an individual constituency is
    Orkney and Shetland will win that. About 35?
  • 01:15 declaration, apparently.
  • Farooq said:

    This result is going to help Labour in the other by-elections down south, isn't it?

    Yes.

    It will reinforce the belief that Starmer = Lawyer = Winner.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,625

    Farooq said:

    This result is going to help Labour in the other by-elections down south, isn't it?

    Yes.

    It will reinforce the belief that Starmer = Lawyer = Winner.
    I'm not seeing how lawyer fits into this equation.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,523
    Farooq said:

    This result is going to help Labour in the other by-elections down south, isn't it?

    Labour has been moving in on Betfair today for mid-Beds - currently on 2, with Tories on 3 and LibDems on 5.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,630
    edited October 2023

    Farooq said:

    This result is going to help Labour in the other by-elections down south, isn't it?

    Yes.

    It will reinforce the belief that Starmer = Lawyer = Winner.
    I'm not seeing how lawyer fits into this equation.
    Apart from Wilson, all of Labour's majority leaders have been lawyers since the war.

    When a lawyer has taken on a non lawyer in a Con v Labour leader front the lawyer has always won.

    In short, being a lawyer helps win general elections when you're up against a non lawyer.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,523
    Given the advances in AI, isn't it odd that TV subtitling of speech is so rubbish? Nearly every sentence appears as part-gibberish.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,625
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    This result is going to help Labour in the other by-elections down south, isn't it?

    Yes.

    It will reinforce the belief that Starmer = Lawyer = Winner.
    I'm not seeing how lawyer fits into this equation.
    Apart from Wilson, all of Labour's majority leaders have been lawyers since the war.

    When a lawyer has taken on a non lawyer in a Con v Labour leader front the lawyer has always won.

    In short, being a lawyer helps win general elections when you're up against a non lawyer.
    It'll be fascinating to find out who Starmer will be facing
    Based on TSE's theory, the Tories need to find someone like Bill Cash.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,664

    Given the advances in AI, isn't it odd that TV subtitling of speech is so rubbish? Nearly every sentence appears as part-gibberish.

    It is very annoying. Live and auto-subtitled programmes are always hopeless.

    Tempting to feed the audio into a local computer to see if it can do better.
  • Former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani owes over half million dollars in federal taxes, and the IRS has placed a lien on his property in Palm Beach, per @Tom_Winter and @jonathan4ny

    https://twitter.com/KenDilanianNBC/status/1710050533556326489
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    This result is going to help Labour in the other by-elections down south, isn't it?

    Yes.

    It will reinforce the belief that Starmer = Lawyer = Winner.
    I'm not seeing how lawyer fits into this equation.
    Apart from Wilson, all of Labour's majority leaders have been lawyers since the war.

    When a lawyer has taken on a non lawyer in a Con v Labour leader front the lawyer has always won.

    In short, being a lawyer helps win general elections when you're up against a non lawyer.
    It'll be fascinating to find out who Starmer will be facing
    Based on TSE's theory, the Tories need to find someone like Bill Cash.
    Barclay and Braverman were lawyers
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918

    Farooq said:

    This result is going to help Labour in the other by-elections down south, isn't it?

    Yes.

    It will reinforce the belief that Starmer = Lawyer = Winner.
    I'm not seeing how lawyer fits into this equation.
    Apart from Wilson, all of Labour's majority leaders have been lawyers since the war.

    When a lawyer has taken on a non lawyer in a Con v Labour leader front the lawyer has always won.

    In short, being a lawyer helps win general elections when you're up against a non lawyer.
    Not always, non lawyer Churchill beat lawyer Attlee in 1951
  • HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    This result is going to help Labour in the other by-elections down south, isn't it?

    Yes.

    It will reinforce the belief that Starmer = Lawyer = Winner.
    I'm not seeing how lawyer fits into this equation.
    Apart from Wilson, all of Labour's majority leaders have been lawyers since the war.

    When a lawyer has taken on a non lawyer in a Con v Labour leader front the lawyer has always won.

    In short, being a lawyer helps win general elections when you're up against a non lawyer.
    Not always, non lawyer Churchill beat lawyer Attlee in 1951
    Attlee won the popular vote.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,625
    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    This result is going to help Labour in the other by-elections down south, isn't it?

    Yes.

    It will reinforce the belief that Starmer = Lawyer = Winner.
    I'm not seeing how lawyer fits into this equation.
    Apart from Wilson, all of Labour's majority leaders have been lawyers since the war.

    When a lawyer has taken on a non lawyer in a Con v Labour leader front the lawyer has always won.

    In short, being a lawyer helps win general elections when you're up against a non lawyer.
    It'll be fascinating to find out who Starmer will be facing
    Based on TSE's theory, the Tories need to find someone like Bill Cash.
    Barclay and Braverman were lawyers
    And Braverman went to the Sorbonne.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    This result is going to help Labour in the other by-elections down south, isn't it?

    Yes.

    It will reinforce the belief that Starmer = Lawyer = Winner.
    I'm not seeing how lawyer fits into this equation.
    Apart from Wilson, all of Labour's majority leaders have been lawyers since the war.

    When a lawyer has taken on a non lawyer in a Con v Labour leader front the lawyer has always won.

    In short, being a lawyer helps win general elections when you're up against a non lawyer.
    Not always, non lawyer Churchill beat lawyer Attlee in 1951
    Attlee won the popular vote.
    So did Al Gore and Hillary Clinton and Ted Heath in Feb 1974, all 4 still lost the election
  • HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    This result is going to help Labour in the other by-elections down south, isn't it?

    Yes.

    It will reinforce the belief that Starmer = Lawyer = Winner.
    I'm not seeing how lawyer fits into this equation.
    Apart from Wilson, all of Labour's majority leaders have been lawyers since the war.

    When a lawyer has taken on a non lawyer in a Con v Labour leader front the lawyer has always won.

    In short, being a lawyer helps win general elections when you're up against a non lawyer.
    It'll be fascinating to find out who Starmer will be facing
    Based on TSE's theory, the Tories need to find someone like Bill Cash.
    Barclay and Braverman were lawyers
    And Braverman went to the Sorbonne.
    More importantly, Braverman and Barclay are Cambridge educated lawyers.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,625
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    This result is going to help Labour in the other by-elections down south, isn't it?

    Yes.

    It will reinforce the belief that Starmer = Lawyer = Winner.
    I'm not seeing how lawyer fits into this equation.
    Apart from Wilson, all of Labour's majority leaders have been lawyers since the war.

    When a lawyer has taken on a non lawyer in a Con v Labour leader front the lawyer has always won.

    In short, being a lawyer helps win general elections when you're up against a non lawyer.
    It'll be fascinating to find out who Starmer will be facing
    Based on TSE's theory, the Tories need to find someone like Bill Cash.
    Barclay and Braverman were lawyers
    And Braverman went to the Sorbonne.
    I'm not sure that's anything to be that excited by: the Sorbonne barely sneaks into the top 50 universities worldwide, while Cambridge (where she also studied) is 8th.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    edited October 2023
    Labour hold in the Tamworth local by-election.

    "Amington

    Lab 669
    Con 526
    Ind Cook 242
    Reform UK 98
    UKIP 25

    via Richard Price on Twitter"


    Labour hold in Vauxhall local by-election.

    "LAMBETH Vauxhall

    SWAINE-JAMESON, Tom Simon (Labour Party) 595
    ALDERECHI, Fareed (Liberal Democrats) 395
    BOND, Jacqueline Rose (The Green Party) 256
    ROTHERHAM, Lee Stuart (Conservative Party Candidate) 160
    LAMBERT, Daniel Peter (The Socialist Party (GB)) 9"
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    Given the advances in AI, isn't it odd that TV subtitling of speech is so rubbish? Nearly every sentence appears as part-gibberish.

    Yes, it’s rather like auto correct on phones - mostly garbage. Makes one wonder whether AI is all it’s cracked up to be.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    edited October 2023

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    This result is going to help Labour in the other by-elections down south, isn't it?

    Yes.

    It will reinforce the belief that Starmer = Lawyer = Winner.
    I'm not seeing how lawyer fits into this equation.
    Apart from Wilson, all of Labour's majority leaders have been lawyers since the war.

    When a lawyer has taken on a non lawyer in a Con v Labour leader front the lawyer has always won.

    In short, being a lawyer helps win general elections when you're up against a non lawyer.
    It'll be fascinating to find out who Starmer will be facing
    Based on TSE's theory, the Tories need to find someone like Bill Cash.
    Barclay and Braverman were lawyers
    And Braverman went to the Sorbonne.
    Barclay or Braverman v Starmer would be the first
    lawyer v lawyer election since Blair v Howard.

    Barclay or Braverman would
    also be the first Cambridge
    educated Tory leaders since
    Howard too (and in Braverman's case the
    Sorbonne)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    Weren't we due the result about 10 minutes ago?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    This result is going to help Labour in the other by-elections down south, isn't it?

    Yes.

    It will reinforce the belief that Starmer = Lawyer = Winner.
    I'm not seeing how lawyer fits into this equation.
    Apart from Wilson, all of Labour's majority leaders have been lawyers since the war.

    When a lawyer has taken on a non lawyer in a Con v Labour leader front the lawyer has always won.

    In short, being a lawyer helps win general elections when you're up against a non lawyer.
    It'll be fascinating to find out who Starmer will be facing
    Based on TSE's theory, the Tories need to find someone like Bill Cash.
    Barclay and Braverman were lawyers
    And Braverman went to the Sorbonne.
    Doctored in mathematics
    She could have been a don
    She can program a computer
    Choose the perfect time
    If you've got the inclination
    She has got the crime

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    Bodes well for the by election there too
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,523
    How did the atypical Wednesday results yesterday go?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647
    edited October 2023
    Genius caller on radio requests Burns'

    My love is like a red red rose

    🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    edited October 2023
    HYUFD said:

    Bodes well for the by election there too
    Reform getting 6% in this ward suggests they might have an outside chance of saving their deposit at the Westminster by-election. The ward is fairly typical of the seat as a whole.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Donna
    HYUFD said:

    Bodes well for the by election there too
    Donna Summers not such hot stuff baby this evening.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    edited October 2023
    It's a fairly good result for Labour in Tamworth, but I wouldn't describe it as outstanding.
  • Two votes for Margaret Ferrier amongst the spoiled ballot papers in the Rutherglen and Hamilton West byelection

    https://twitter.com/KieranPAndrews/status/1710086589806764543
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    Maybe this delay is being caused by the Tories hovering around the 5% lost deposit mark.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    Andy_JS said:

    It's a fairly good result for Labour in Tamworth, but I wouldn't describe it as outstanding.
    3.9% Con to Lab swing from the 2023 ward result.

    Across the constituency, Labour looked to have led by 0.2%* in the LE 2023 round

    * some error in that as part wards were scaled.
  • Here we go.
  • Kaboom.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647
    Offfftt
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    31% win.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    edited October 2023
    Lab 17,839
    SNP 8,399
    Con 1,192
    LD 895
    Green 601
    Reform 403
    Family 319
    SSP 271
    Ind Scot 207
    TUSC 178

    Lab maj 9,440
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,293
    Humsa Useless
  • SNP well and truly stepmommed
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,293
    OMG
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,664
    OOOF
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    Just shy of 18% swing.
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,293
    SNP wipeout a possibility?
  • SNP well and truly stepmommed
  • Wow. Looks like almost all the Tory vote went tactical.
  • A very handy win for Labour. Well above expectations.
  • Pro_Rata said:

    Just shy of 18% swing.

    I make it 20.35% swing.
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,293
    Seems to suggest Panelbase and R&W are the gold standard Scotland polling
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,523
    Lab 58%, SNP 27%, Con 3.9%
This discussion has been closed.