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Is LAB going to make a by-election gain tonight? – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,793

    Scott_xP said:

    @Steven_Swinford

    Exclusive:

    Rishi Sunak has not seen a “conference bounce” in polls despite unveiling a string of high-profile policies

    Yougov poll for Times finds Labour retains a 21 point lead

    Ban on cigarette sales very popular; opinion mixed on HS2 & A-levels

    @Mexicanpete please explain
    I didn't say yesterday's policies including Streeting's cigarette ban are necessarily positive.

    What I suggested was Sunak/Cummings are rather clever in salting the earth in the event of a Labour win. It lays the land for a Labour government to fail quickly and a swift return for the Tories. I don't think we have ever seen this before in the UK, but Cummings is a strange lad. Has he thought through a Sunak win though?
    That was just yesterday. Every day seemingly you are droning about ‘game changers’ and LBC audiences and blah blah fucking blah, I don’t know if it’s reverse psychology or what, but you are like broken record.
    Dura Ace explained a couple of weeks ago how to block posts from specific posters. I suggest you scroll back and have a look and follow his instructions.
    Why would I want to block you? Usually your posts are great, but in recent weeks you have become this weird Sunak booster. Why?

    Scott_xP said:

    @Steven_Swinford

    Exclusive:

    Rishi Sunak has not seen a “conference bounce” in polls despite unveiling a string of high-profile policies

    Yougov poll for Times finds Labour retains a 21 point lead

    Ban on cigarette sales very popular; opinion mixed on HS2 & A-levels

    @Mexicanpete please explain
    I didn't say yesterday's policies including Streeting's cigarette ban are necessarily positive.

    What I suggested was Sunak/Cummings are rather clever in salting the earth in the event of a Labour win. It lays the land for a Labour government to fail quickly and a swift return for the Tories. I don't think we have ever seen this before in the UK, but Cummings is a strange lad. Has he thought through a Sunak win though?
    That was just yesterday. Every day seemingly you are droning about ‘game changers’ and LBC audiences and blah blah fucking blah, I don’t know if it’s reverse psychology or what, but you are like broken record.
    Dura Ace explained a couple of weeks ago how to block posts from specific posters. I suggest you scroll back and have a look and follow his instructions.
    Why would I want to block you? Usually your posts are great, but in recent weeks you have become this weird Sunak booster. Why?
    The Conservatives are going to claw back the victory. This is not like '97 it is like '92. The media are incredibly hostile which they weren't in '97 and Starmer is unfortunately an utter clown. Granted, not in the same league as Corbyn but an incompetent loser nonetheless.

    I listened to the whole if Sunak's speech and I thought it was drops. The media interpretation has been somewhat more positive. Mainstream media have captured this insanity that Sunak is the "change" candidate, which you have to admit is pure Cummings insanity, but it's working.
    On what basis is it ‘working’?
    Let's see the next Opinium. Single figures!
    You just cherrypicking polls now? There’s a poll out literally tonight with a 21 point lead
    which you choose to ignore presumably? In any case, it’s boring reading your posts on this matter because you have a hypothesis and fit the evidence around it rather than vice versa. Of course, you might end up being right, but droning on about it without any evidence won’t be the reason if you are.
    Pot calling the kettle black comes to mind
    No
    Right, that's it! I'm voting Conservative just to piss you off.
    I thought you already were.
    I have never once voted Tory, but you've asked for it now!
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,637
    viewcode said:

    Farooq said:

    viewcode said:

    Cookie said:

    algarkirk said:

    Cookie said:

    So after all that, Labour are going to do exactly the same. Come on Labour, pull your fingers out:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/10/05/keir-starmer-will-not-commit-reverse-rishi-sunak-hs2-cut/

    Not fair to Sir K. He has unavoidably not made a commitment. To do so is to fall into the trap set for him - it's a massive spending commitment he cannot make before an election. Sir K can't commit to an extra billion let alone many billions. But he has left the door open. Expect lots more of this.
    Indeed. The Tories must think Royale is stupid. He is many things, but stupid is not one of them.
    But in theory this isn't about money. Both sides are saying they'd spend the money
    This article should be read by everyone interested in politics and economics

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/04/financial-crisis-political-class-lies/
    You may be interested to know that I think he's 100% wrong. I'm going thru Peter Turchin's "End Times"[1] at the moment and I think he (Turchin) is right. The combination of popular immiseration and elite overproduction have led to the potential for revolution, where people qualified to wield power but denied it utilise disaffected masses to overthrow regimes. Allister Heath's prescription would just make the miserable poor more miserable and more poor, and that'll only make things worse.

    Recall my past comments on Pensionerism. The preponderance of wealthy elderly means that old ideas will persist even when they stop working, and new ideas for a new age will die stillborn. The cure you prefer would have worked in a neoliberal age, but that age stopped around 2015. The current condition - retreating globalisation, less trade, more migration waves - require new solutions, and the old ways won't work. We have just spent two years pushing on a string with higher interest rates, and were surprised it didn't work. Making mistakes is one thing, but failing to learn from them is another.

    [1] https://www.waterstones.com/book/end-times/peter-turchin//9780241553480
    Who exactly is qualified to wield power but also willing to utilise disaffected masses to overthrow regimes?

    My judgement of the former would be somewhat* tempered by the latter.

    *utterly
    In Turchin terms, "elites" is a simple synonym for "power havers". "Elite overproduction" is when people capable of wielding power (I used the word "qualified" above, which misled, my apologies) are denied it thru simple lack of powerful positions. He uses it to refer to well-educated people with professional/academic positions who have sufficient interest in the world and sufficient time to formulate theories.

    Here's a thing: Lenin trained to be a lawyer, Stalin a priest, Mao a teacher/librarian, Hitler an artist. All in different circumstances would be comfortable professionals. But lacking a outlet for their gifts and surrounded by disaffected, they went into politics, won, overthrew the existing order and remade the world...and we spent fifty years cleaning up after them.

    Although not in the same league (obvs) consider somebody like Matthew Goodwin. A man of considerable gifts and academic achievement, he has the time and intelligence to build an underlying theory of the world and the desire to change the world accordingly. But in a nation of 68 million people (69, 70...remember, it's increasing) and only 650 seats at the top level and a few thou(?) at devolved level, he cannot wield the power he believes to be his right.

    So my answer to your question is "...well-educated people/autodidacts with professional/academic positions who have sufficient interest in the world, sufficient time to formulate theories, and sufficient resources to pursue power..."

    Does that answer your question?
    Goodwined the thread good and proper with that one.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,464
    Farooq said:


    And me - Labour by 3800.

    Apologies

    SNP WIN
    - 500 @biggles
    - 471 @boulay
    - 300 @rottenborough
    - 300 @Luckyguy1983
    TIE
    + 25 @OldKingCole
    + 25 @TimS
    + 250 @Foxy
    + 666 @Omnium
    + 700 @Benpointer
    +1500 @Andy_JS
    +1650 @Pro_Rata
    +1900 @Nico (I assume you mean Labour win?)
    +2000 @Sunil_Prasannan
    +2048 @Farooq
    +3000 @londonpubman
    +3800 @NickPalmer
    +4000 @AramintaMoonbeamQC
    +4800 @Heathener
    LABOUR WIN
    I should be SNP win by 250, so -250 , not +250.

    I reckon Nats are very sticky, but sounds as if I may well be completely out.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,637

    Scott_xP said:

    @Steven_Swinford

    Exclusive:

    Rishi Sunak has not seen a “conference bounce” in polls despite unveiling a string of high-profile policies

    Yougov poll for Times finds Labour retains a 21 point lead

    Ban on cigarette sales very popular; opinion mixed on HS2 & A-levels

    @Mexicanpete please explain
    I didn't say yesterday's policies including Streeting's cigarette ban are necessarily positive.

    What I suggested was Sunak/Cummings are rather clever in salting the earth in the event of a Labour win. It lays the land for a Labour government to fail quickly and a swift return for the Tories. I don't think we have ever seen this before in the UK, but Cummings is a strange lad. Has he thought through a Sunak win though?
    That was just yesterday. Every day seemingly you are droning about ‘game changers’ and LBC audiences and blah blah fucking blah, I don’t know if it’s reverse psychology or what, but you are like broken record.
    Dura Ace explained a couple of weeks ago how to block posts from specific posters. I suggest you scroll back and have a look and follow his instructions.
    Why would I want to block you? Usually your posts are great, but in recent weeks you have become this weird Sunak booster. Why?

    Scott_xP said:

    @Steven_Swinford

    Exclusive:

    Rishi Sunak has not seen a “conference bounce” in polls despite unveiling a string of high-profile policies

    Yougov poll for Times finds Labour retains a 21 point lead

    Ban on cigarette sales very popular; opinion mixed on HS2 & A-levels

    @Mexicanpete please explain
    I didn't say yesterday's policies including Streeting's cigarette ban are necessarily positive.

    What I suggested was Sunak/Cummings are rather clever in salting the earth in the event of a Labour win. It lays the land for a Labour government to fail quickly and a swift return for the Tories. I don't think we have ever seen this before in the UK, but Cummings is a strange lad. Has he thought through a Sunak win though?
    That was just yesterday. Every day seemingly you are droning about ‘game changers’ and LBC audiences and blah blah fucking blah, I don’t know if it’s reverse psychology or what, but you are like broken record.
    Dura Ace explained a couple of weeks ago how to block posts from specific posters. I suggest you scroll back and have a look and follow his instructions.
    Why would I want to block you? Usually your posts are great, but in recent weeks you have become this weird Sunak booster. Why?
    The Conservatives are going to claw back the victory. This is not like '97 it is like '92. The media are incredibly hostile which they weren't in '97 and Starmer is unfortunately an utter clown. Granted, not in the same league as Corbyn but an incompetent loser nonetheless.

    I listened to the whole if Sunak's speech and I thought it was drops. The media interpretation has been somewhat more positive. Mainstream media have captured this insanity that Sunak is the "change" candidate, which you have to admit is pure Cummings insanity, but it's working.
    On what basis is it ‘working’?
    Let's see the next Opinium. Single figures!
    You just cherrypicking polls now? There’s a poll out literally tonight with a 21 point lead
    which you choose to ignore presumably? In any case, it’s boring reading your posts on this matter because you have a hypothesis and fit the evidence around it rather than vice versa. Of course, you might end up being right, but droning on about it without any evidence won’t be the reason if you are.
    Pot calling the kettle black comes to mind
    No
    Right, that's it! I'm voting Conservative just to piss you off.
    I thought you already were.
    I have never once voted Tory, but you've asked for it now!
    Up to you.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 11,401
    Foxy said:

    Farooq said:


    And me - Labour by 3800.

    Apologies

    SNP WIN
    - 500 @biggles
    - 471 @boulay
    - 300 @rottenborough
    - 300 @Luckyguy1983
    TIE
    + 25 @OldKingCole
    + 25 @TimS
    + 250 @Foxy
    + 666 @Omnium
    + 700 @Benpointer
    +1500 @Andy_JS
    +1650 @Pro_Rata
    +1900 @Nico (I assume you mean Labour win?)
    +2000 @Sunil_Prasannan
    +2048 @Farooq
    +3000 @londonpubman
    +3800 @NickPalmer
    +4000 @AramintaMoonbeamQC
    +4800 @Heathener
    LABOUR WIN
    I should be SNP win by 250, so -250 , not +250.

    I reckon Nats are very sticky, but sounds as if I may well be completely out.
    Sorry, updated it at my end but not posting list after embarrassing list every time someone points out another mistake.

    Can you tell I've been at the whisky?

    I'll update in the morning if nobody else does it overnight.
  • Options
    Foxy said:

    Farooq said:


    And me - Labour by 3800.

    Apologies

    SNP WIN
    - 500 @biggles
    - 471 @boulay
    - 300 @rottenborough
    - 300 @Luckyguy1983
    TIE
    + 25 @OldKingCole
    + 25 @TimS
    + 250 @Foxy
    + 666 @Omnium
    + 700 @Benpointer
    +1500 @Andy_JS
    +1650 @Pro_Rata
    +1900 @Nico (I assume you mean Labour win?)
    +2000 @Sunil_Prasannan
    +2048 @Farooq
    +3000 @londonpubman
    +3800 @NickPalmer
    +4000 @AramintaMoonbeamQC
    +4800 @Heathener
    LABOUR WIN
    I should be SNP win by 250, so -250 , not +250.

    I reckon Nats are very sticky, but sounds as if I may well be completely out.
    Lab +3400
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,814
    The interesting thing will be applying the swing from SNP to Lab to all the other SNP seats in Scotland to see how many they would hold onto if Rutherglen is typical.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,690
    viewcode said:

    Farooq said:

    viewcode said:

    Cookie said:

    algarkirk said:

    Cookie said:

    So after all that, Labour are going to do exactly the same. Come on Labour, pull your fingers out:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/10/05/keir-starmer-will-not-commit-reverse-rishi-sunak-hs2-cut/

    Not fair to Sir K. He has unavoidably not made a commitment. To do so is to fall into the trap set for him - it's a massive spending commitment he cannot make before an election. Sir K can't commit to an extra billion let alone many billions. But he has left the door open. Expect lots more of this.
    Indeed. The Tories must think Royale is stupid. He is many things, but stupid is not one of them.
    But in theory this isn't about money. Both sides are saying they'd spend the money
    This article should be read by everyone interested in politics and economics

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/04/financial-crisis-political-class-lies/
    You may be interested to know that I think he's 100% wrong. I'm going thru Peter Turchin's "End Times"[1] at the moment and I think he (Turchin) is right. The combination of popular immiseration and elite overproduction have led to the potential for revolution, where people qualified to wield power but denied it utilise disaffected masses to overthrow regimes. Allister Heath's prescription would just make the miserable poor more miserable and more poor, and that'll only make things worse.

    Recall my past comments on Pensionerism. The preponderance of wealthy elderly means that old ideas will persist even when they stop working, and new ideas for a new age will die stillborn. The cure you prefer would have worked in a neoliberal age, but that age stopped around 2015. The current condition - retreating globalisation, less trade, more migration waves - require new solutions, and the old ways won't work. We have just spent two years pushing on a string with higher interest rates, and were surprised it didn't work. Making mistakes is one thing, but failing to learn from them is another.

    [1] https://www.waterstones.com/book/end-times/peter-turchin//9780241553480
    Who exactly is qualified to wield power but also willing to utilise disaffected masses to overthrow regimes?

    My judgement of the former would be somewhat* tempered by the latter.

    *utterly
    In Turchin terms, "elites" is a simple synonym for "power havers". "Elite overproduction" is when people capable of wielding power (I used the word "qualified" above, which misled, my apologies) are denied it thru simple lack of powerful positions. He uses it to refer to well-educated people with professional/academic positions who have sufficient interest in the world and sufficient time to formulate theories.

    Here's a thing: Lenin trained to be a lawyer, Stalin a priest, Mao a teacher/librarian, Hitler an artist. All in different circumstances would be comfortable professionals. But lacking a outlet for their gifts and surrounded by disaffected, they went into politics, won, overthrew the existing order and remade the world...and we spent fifty years cleaning up after them.

    Although not in the same league (obvs) consider somebody like Matthew Goodwin. A man of considerable gifts and academic achievement, he has the time and intelligence to build an underlying theory of the world and the desire to change the world accordingly. But in a nation of 68 million people (69, 70...remember, it's increasing) and only 650 seats at the top level and a few thou(?) at devolved level, he cannot wield the power he believes to be his right.

    So my answer to your question is "...well-educated people/autodidacts with professional/academic positions who have sufficient interest in the world, sufficient time to formulate theories, and sufficient resources to pursue power..."

    Does that answer your question?
    So you are suggesting Matt Goodwin is a future dictator of the United Kingdom? Sounds more like a spoof
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,464
    Farooq said:

    Foxy said:

    Farooq said:


    And me - Labour by 3800.

    Apologies

    SNP WIN
    - 500 @biggles
    - 471 @boulay
    - 300 @rottenborough
    - 300 @Luckyguy1983
    TIE
    + 25 @OldKingCole
    + 25 @TimS
    + 250 @Foxy
    + 666 @Omnium
    + 700 @Benpointer
    +1500 @Andy_JS
    +1650 @Pro_Rata
    +1900 @Nico (I assume you mean Labour win?)
    +2000 @Sunil_Prasannan
    +2048 @Farooq
    +3000 @londonpubman
    +3800 @NickPalmer
    +4000 @AramintaMoonbeamQC
    +4800 @Heathener
    LABOUR WIN
    I should be SNP win by 250, so -250 , not +250.

    I reckon Nats are very sticky, but sounds as if I may well be completely out.
    Sorry, updated it at my end but not posting list after embarrassing list every time someone points out another mistake.

    Can you tell I've been at the whisky?

    I'll update in the morning if nobody else does it overnight.
    No problem.

    I have just been watching Local Hero, recorded the other night, and somehow missed by me previously.

    Strangely topical in its story of opening a Scottish offshore oilfield, left behind town and Environmentalism. I rather liked it.
  • Options
    TresTres Posts: 2,304
    +1690 Lab
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,637
    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:

    Farooq said:

    viewcode said:

    Cookie said:

    algarkirk said:

    Cookie said:

    So after all that, Labour are going to do exactly the same. Come on Labour, pull your fingers out:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/10/05/keir-starmer-will-not-commit-reverse-rishi-sunak-hs2-cut/

    Not fair to Sir K. He has unavoidably not made a commitment. To do so is to fall into the trap set for him - it's a massive spending commitment he cannot make before an election. Sir K can't commit to an extra billion let alone many billions. But he has left the door open. Expect lots more of this.
    Indeed. The Tories must think Royale is stupid. He is many things, but stupid is not one of them.
    But in theory this isn't about money. Both sides are saying they'd spend the money
    This article should be read by everyone interested in politics and economics

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/04/financial-crisis-political-class-lies/
    You may be interested to know that I think he's 100% wrong. I'm going thru Peter Turchin's "End Times"[1] at the moment and I think he (Turchin) is right. The combination of popular immiseration and elite overproduction have led to the potential for revolution, where people qualified to wield power but denied it utilise disaffected masses to overthrow regimes. Allister Heath's prescription would just make the miserable poor more miserable and more poor, and that'll only make things worse.

    Recall my past comments on Pensionerism. The preponderance of wealthy elderly means that old ideas will persist even when they stop working, and new ideas for a new age will die stillborn. The cure you prefer would have worked in a neoliberal age, but that age stopped around 2015. The current condition - retreating globalisation, less trade, more migration waves - require new solutions, and the old ways won't work. We have just spent two years pushing on a string with higher interest rates, and were surprised it didn't work. Making mistakes is one thing, but failing to learn from them is another.

    [1] https://www.waterstones.com/book/end-times/peter-turchin//9780241553480
    Who exactly is qualified to wield power but also willing to utilise disaffected masses to overthrow regimes?

    My judgement of the former would be somewhat* tempered by the latter.

    *utterly
    In Turchin terms, "elites" is a simple synonym for "power havers". "Elite overproduction" is when people capable of wielding power (I used the word "qualified" above, which misled, my apologies) are denied it thru simple lack of powerful positions. He uses it to refer to well-educated people with professional/academic positions who have sufficient interest in the world and sufficient time to formulate theories.

    Here's a thing: Lenin trained to be a lawyer, Stalin a priest, Mao a teacher/librarian, Hitler an artist. All in different circumstances would be comfortable professionals. But lacking a outlet for their gifts and surrounded by disaffected, they went into politics, won, overthrew the existing order and remade the world...and we spent fifty years cleaning up after them.

    Although not in the same league (obvs) consider somebody like Matthew Goodwin. A man of considerable gifts and academic achievement, he has the time and intelligence to build an underlying theory of the world and the desire to change the world accordingly. But in a nation of 68 million people (69, 70...remember, it's increasing) and only 650 seats at the top level and a few thou(?) at devolved level, he cannot wield the power he believes to be his right.

    So my answer to your question is "...well-educated people/autodidacts with professional/academic positions who have sufficient interest in the world, sufficient time to formulate theories, and sufficient resources to pursue power..."

    Does that answer your question?
    So you are suggesting Matt Goodwin is a future dictator of the United Kingdom? Sounds more like a spoof
    😆easily my favourite post of the week
  • Options
    numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,746
    +2350 Lab for me
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,464
    edited October 2023
    viewcode said:

    Farooq said:

    viewcode said:

    Cookie said:

    algarkirk said:

    Cookie said:

    So after all that, Labour are going to do exactly the same. Come on Labour, pull your fingers out:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/10/05/keir-starmer-will-not-commit-reverse-rishi-sunak-hs2-cut/

    Not fair to Sir K. He has unavoidably not made a commitment. To do so is to fall into the trap set for him - it's a massive spending commitment he cannot make before an election. Sir K can't commit to an extra billion let alone many billions. But he has left the door open. Expect lots more of this.
    Indeed. The Tories must think Royale is stupid. He is many things, but stupid is not one of them.
    But in theory this isn't about money. Both sides are saying they'd spend the money
    This article should be read by everyone interested in politics and economics

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/04/financial-crisis-political-class-lies/
    You may be interested to know that I think he's 100% wrong. I'm going thru Peter Turchin's "End Times"[1] at the moment and I think he (Turchin) is right. The combination of popular immiseration and elite overproduction have led to the potential for revolution, where people qualified to wield power but denied it utilise disaffected masses to overthrow regimes. Allister Heath's prescription would just make the miserable poor more miserable and more poor, and that'll only make things worse.

    Recall my past comments on Pensionerism. The preponderance of wealthy elderly means that old ideas will persist even when they stop working, and new ideas for a new age will die stillborn. The cure you prefer would have worked in a neoliberal age, but that age stopped around 2015. The current condition - retreating globalisation, less trade, more migration waves - require new solutions, and the old ways won't work. We have just spent two years pushing on a string with higher interest rates, and were surprised it didn't work. Making mistakes is one thing, but failing to learn from them is another.

    [1] https://www.waterstones.com/book/end-times/peter-turchin//9780241553480
    Who exactly is qualified to wield power but also willing to utilise disaffected masses to overthrow regimes?

    My judgement of the former would be somewhat* tempered by the latter.

    *utterly
    In Turchin terms, "elites" is a simple synonym for "power havers". "Elite overproduction" is when people capable of wielding power (I used the word "qualified" above, which misled, my apologies) are denied it thru simple lack of powerful positions. He uses it to refer to well-educated people with professional/academic positions who have sufficient interest in the world and sufficient time to formulate theories.

    Here's a thing: Lenin trained to be a lawyer, Stalin a priest, Mao a teacher/librarian, Hitler an artist. All in different circumstances would be comfortable professionals. But lacking a outlet for their gifts and surrounded by disaffected, they went into politics, won, overthrew the existing order and remade the world...and we spent fifty years cleaning up after them.

    Although not in the same league (obvs) consider somebody like Matthew Goodwin. A man of considerable gifts and academic achievement, he has the time and intelligence to build an underlying theory of the world and the desire to change the world accordingly. But in a nation of 68 million people (69, 70...remember, it's increasing) and only 650 seats at the top level and a few thou(?) at devolved level, he cannot wield the power he believes to be his right.

    So my answer to your question is "...well-educated people/autodidacts with professional/academic positions who have sufficient interest in the world, sufficient time to formulate theories, and sufficient resources to pursue power..."

    Does that answer your question?
    I get the theory. Didn't someone say of the French Revolution that it happened not because the peasants were starving, but because the lawyers were?

    If so, I think that we are approaching that state, with a super rich neauvoux aristocracy, and a lot of white collar millennials living day by day. It isn't a stable situation in the long term.
  • Options
    Farooq said:

    viewcode said:

    Farooq said:

    viewcode said:

    Cookie said:

    algarkirk said:

    Cookie said:

    So after all that, Labour are going to do exactly the same. Come on Labour, pull your fingers out:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/10/05/keir-starmer-will-not-commit-reverse-rishi-sunak-hs2-cut/

    Not fair to Sir K. He has unavoidably not made a commitment. To do so is to fall into the trap set for him - it's a massive spending commitment he cannot make before an election. Sir K can't commit to an extra billion let alone many billions. But he has left the door open. Expect lots more of this.
    Indeed. The Tories must think Royale is stupid. He is many things, but stupid is not one of them.
    But in theory this isn't about money. Both sides are saying they'd spend the money
    This article should be read by everyone interested in politics and economics

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/04/financial-crisis-political-class-lies/
    You may be interested to know that I think he's 100% wrong. I'm going thru Peter Turchin's "End Times"[1] at the moment and I think he (Turchin) is right. The combination of popular immiseration and elite overproduction have led to the potential for revolution, where people qualified to wield power but denied it utilise disaffected masses to overthrow regimes. Allister Heath's prescription would just make the miserable poor more miserable and more poor, and that'll only make things worse.

    Recall my past comments on Pensionerism. The preponderance of wealthy elderly means that old ideas will persist even when they stop working, and new ideas for a new age will die stillborn. The cure you prefer would have worked in a neoliberal age, but that age stopped around 2015. The current condition - retreating globalisation, less trade, more migration waves - require new solutions, and the old ways won't work. We have just spent two years pushing on a string with higher interest rates, and were surprised it didn't work. Making mistakes is one thing, but failing to learn from them is another.

    [1] https://www.waterstones.com/book/end-times/peter-turchin//9780241553480
    Who exactly is qualified to wield power but also willing to utilise disaffected masses to overthrow regimes?

    My judgement of the former would be somewhat* tempered by the latter.

    *utterly
    In Turchin terms, "elites" is a simple synonym for "power havers". "Elite overproduction" is when people capable of wielding power (I used the word "qualified" above, which misled, my apologies) are denied it thru simple lack of powerful positions. He uses it to refer to well-educated people with professional/academic positions who have sufficient interest in the world and sufficient time to formulate theories.

    Here's a thing: Lenin trained to be a lawyer, Stalin a priest, Mao a teacher/librarian, Hitler an artist. All in different circumstances would be comfortable professionals. But lacking a outlet for their gifts and surrounded by disaffected, they went into politics, won, overthrew the existing order and remade the world...and we spent fifty years cleaning up after them.

    Although not in the same league (obvs) consider somebody like Matthew Goodwin. A man of considerable gifts and academic achievement, he has the time and intelligence to build an underlying theory of the world and the desire to change the world accordingly. But in a nation of 68 million people (69, 70...remember, it's increasing) and only 650 seats at the top level and a few thou(?) at devolved level, he cannot wield the power he believes to be his right.

    So my answer to your question is "...well-educated people/autodidacts with professional/academic positions who have sufficient interest in the world, sufficient time to formulate theories, and sufficient resources to pursue power..."

    Does that answer your question?
    Yes, and it's intensely interesting too, thanks.

    Slight quibble. I think Lenin was politically motivated at a very early age by his brother's troubles but I'm no Leninologist so I might be wrong.
    I know modern history has distorted our perspective but many people of the time were very impressed with Adolf Hitler. He was also named man of the year once.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 11,401
    Andy_JS said:

    The interesting thing will be applying the swing from SNP to Lab to all the other SNP seats in Scotland to see how many they would hold onto if Rutherglen is typical.

    Reposting this:
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    There's been a bit of talk in the last few days about Scottish constituencies and how changes in overall VI might affect the result. I'm pretty unsure where the votes for various parties will pile up, diminish, or hold up but it's universally acknowledged that Scotland isn't homogeneous so we can expect some kind of geographical variation.

    The first step to working this out should be to classify where Scotland is now. That's what I've attempted below.

    Methodology. Using the results of the 2019 general election in Scottish constituencies, and keeping ONLY the votes of the four "main" parties, I've used a clustering algorithm to group similar constituencies. All the percentages below are therefore the percentages of the total cast for SNP, Con, Lab, and LD. I've done this because clustering algorithms are vulnerable to biases created by parties standing in some seats and not others. There is an argument for accepting this but I've decided against that. There's also an argument for adding Green votes onto the SNP score but I've again decided against this.

    I also played around with the number of clusters. I wanted 6 but I was getting some obvious subclusters merged together. Ten clusters looked too overfitted, so I settled on eight. There are a couple of constituencies that feel out of place, notably Lanark and Hamilton East, but that's a problem with all lumping tasks. It's not perfect, but it's a starting point.

    Without further ado:

    Group 1: "nationalist left"
    These are seats where the SNP have a solid grip and the main challenger is generally Labour. Tories on mid teens and LDs below 10%
    Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch East, Dundee West, Edinburgh East, Glasgow North West, Glasgow South, Glenrothes, Inverclyde, Paisley and Renfrewshire South, West Dunbartonshire

    Group 2: "Glasgow left"
    These are seats generally around Glasgow where the SNP are in charge but Labour are very strong. Tories in low teens, LDs usually below 5%
    Airdrie and Shotts, Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill, Glasgow Central, Glasgow East, Glasgow North, Glasgow North East, Glasgow South West, Motherwell and Wishaw, Rutherglen and Hamilton West

    Group 3: "Rural Tories"
    These are seats that have a strong rural element with small towns or far suburbs. The Tories are very strong, 35%+. Labour and LDs generally each below 10%.
    Aberdeen South, Angus, Argyll and Bute, Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock, Banff and Buchan, Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk, Dumfries and Galloway, Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale, East Renfrewshire, Gordon, Moray, Ochil and South Perthshire, Perth and North Perthshire, West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine

    Group 4: "Lib Dem hinterland"
    These are seats where the Lib Dems have a very strong foothold. The Lib Dems get more than a third of their overall vote in just these six seats. SNP on a third to a half, Con in the teens and Lab below 10%.
    Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross, East Dunbartonshire, Edinburgh West, North East Fife, Orkney and Shetland, Ross, Skye and Lochaber

    Group 5: "Edinburgh South"
    Ian Murray's Morningside seat. SNP 26% Con 17% Murray 49% LD 8%. No other seat like it.
    Edinburgh South

    Group 6: "nationalist right"
    These are seats where the SNP have a solid grip and the main challenger is Conservative. Labour on mid teens and LDs below 10%. Similar to group 1, swapping Lab and Con.
    Aberdeen North, Central Ayrshire, Dundee East, Edinburgh South West, Falkirk, Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey, North Ayrshire and Arran, Stirling

    Group 7: "Three-way"
    These are seats where the third place party is on more than 20% and the SNP looking a little vulnerable.
    East Lothian, Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath, Midlothian, Na h-Eileanan an Iar

    Group 8: "Nationalist centre"
    These are generally seats where it's not always obvious who the main challenger to the SNP is. SNP generally "safer" than in the three-ways but otherwise similar to group 7.
    Dunfermline and West Fife, East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow, Edinburgh North and Leith, Kilmarnock and Loudon, Lanark and Hamilton East, Linlithgow and East Fakirk, Livingston, Paisley and Renfrewshire North
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,814
    edited October 2023
    Tres said:

    +1690 Lab

    The William of Orange option. 🙂
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    FarooqFarooq Posts: 11,401

    Farooq said:

    viewcode said:

    Farooq said:

    viewcode said:

    Cookie said:

    algarkirk said:

    Cookie said:

    So after all that, Labour are going to do exactly the same. Come on Labour, pull your fingers out:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/10/05/keir-starmer-will-not-commit-reverse-rishi-sunak-hs2-cut/

    Not fair to Sir K. He has unavoidably not made a commitment. To do so is to fall into the trap set for him - it's a massive spending commitment he cannot make before an election. Sir K can't commit to an extra billion let alone many billions. But he has left the door open. Expect lots more of this.
    Indeed. The Tories must think Royale is stupid. He is many things, but stupid is not one of them.
    But in theory this isn't about money. Both sides are saying they'd spend the money
    This article should be read by everyone interested in politics and economics

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/04/financial-crisis-political-class-lies/
    You may be interested to know that I think he's 100% wrong. I'm going thru Peter Turchin's "End Times"[1] at the moment and I think he (Turchin) is right. The combination of popular immiseration and elite overproduction have led to the potential for revolution, where people qualified to wield power but denied it utilise disaffected masses to overthrow regimes. Allister Heath's prescription would just make the miserable poor more miserable and more poor, and that'll only make things worse.

    Recall my past comments on Pensionerism. The preponderance of wealthy elderly means that old ideas will persist even when they stop working, and new ideas for a new age will die stillborn. The cure you prefer would have worked in a neoliberal age, but that age stopped around 2015. The current condition - retreating globalisation, less trade, more migration waves - require new solutions, and the old ways won't work. We have just spent two years pushing on a string with higher interest rates, and were surprised it didn't work. Making mistakes is one thing, but failing to learn from them is another.

    [1] https://www.waterstones.com/book/end-times/peter-turchin//9780241553480
    Who exactly is qualified to wield power but also willing to utilise disaffected masses to overthrow regimes?

    My judgement of the former would be somewhat* tempered by the latter.

    *utterly
    In Turchin terms, "elites" is a simple synonym for "power havers". "Elite overproduction" is when people capable of wielding power (I used the word "qualified" above, which misled, my apologies) are denied it thru simple lack of powerful positions. He uses it to refer to well-educated people with professional/academic positions who have sufficient interest in the world and sufficient time to formulate theories.

    Here's a thing: Lenin trained to be a lawyer, Stalin a priest, Mao a teacher/librarian, Hitler an artist. All in different circumstances would be comfortable professionals. But lacking a outlet for their gifts and surrounded by disaffected, they went into politics, won, overthrew the existing order and remade the world...and we spent fifty years cleaning up after them.

    Although not in the same league (obvs) consider somebody like Matthew Goodwin. A man of considerable gifts and academic achievement, he has the time and intelligence to build an underlying theory of the world and the desire to change the world accordingly. But in a nation of 68 million people (69, 70...remember, it's increasing) and only 650 seats at the top level and a few thou(?) at devolved level, he cannot wield the power he believes to be his right.

    So my answer to your question is "...well-educated people/autodidacts with professional/academic positions who have sufficient interest in the world, sufficient time to formulate theories, and sufficient resources to pursue power..."

    Does that answer your question?
    Yes, and it's intensely interesting too, thanks.

    Slight quibble. I think Lenin was politically motivated at a very early age by his brother's troubles but I'm no Leninologist so I might be wrong.
    I know modern history has distorted our perspective but many people of the time were very impressed with Adolf Hitler. He was also named man of the year once.
    I think it's not just modern history but also... some of the things he... you know... did?
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,814
    BBC Scotland by-election special is available elsewhere on the BBC News Channel.
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    FarooqFarooq Posts: 11,401
    Andy_JS said:

    Tres said:

    +1690 Lab

    The William of Orange option. 🙂
    Actually kinda surprised nobody said 1488 and glad they didn't.
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    Keith Brown getting the excuses in early on BBC1 Scotland.
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,814
    Farooq said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Tres said:

    +1690 Lab

    The William of Orange option. 🙂
    Actually kinda surprised nobody said 1488 and glad they didn't.
    Nobody went for 1314?
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    TresTres Posts: 2,304
    aberdeen north and dundee east are never ever ever going to go tory
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    carnforthcarnforth Posts: 3,368
    On the theory that Police Scotland tiptoe around elections, the charges should be next week.
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    Curtice has spoken and it's bad news for Tories and the SNP. Deposit loss for the Blues looking possible.
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    FarooqFarooq Posts: 11,401
    Tres said:

    aberdeen north and dundee east are never ever ever going to go tory

    Probably not. The analysis was done using a clustering algorithm based on the 2019 results alone. I could have done something more in depth but couldn't be bothered. The groups were made by the algorithm, and the descriptions are how I interpret the group overall. I put in caveats about all this and the imperfection of the method.
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,463
    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:

    Farooq said:

    viewcode said:

    Cookie said:

    algarkirk said:

    Cookie said:

    So after all that, Labour are going to do exactly the same. Come on Labour, pull your fingers out:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/10/05/keir-starmer-will-not-commit-reverse-rishi-sunak-hs2-cut/

    Not fair to Sir K. He has unavoidably not made a commitment. To do so is to fall into the trap set for him - it's a massive spending commitment he cannot make before an election. Sir K can't commit to an extra billion let alone many billions. But he has left the door open. Expect lots more of this.
    Indeed. The Tories must think Royale is stupid. He is many things, but stupid is not one of them.
    But in theory this isn't about money. Both sides are saying they'd spend the money
    This article should be read by everyone interested in politics and economics

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/04/financial-crisis-political-class-lies/
    You may be interested to know that I think he's 100% wrong. I'm going thru Peter Turchin's "End Times"[1] at the moment and I think he (Turchin) is right. The combination of popular immiseration and elite overproduction have led to the potential for revolution, where people qualified to wield power but denied it utilise disaffected masses to overthrow regimes. Allister Heath's prescription would just make the miserable poor more miserable and more poor, and that'll only make things worse.

    Recall my past comments on Pensionerism. The preponderance of wealthy elderly means that old ideas will persist even when they stop working, and new ideas for a new age will die stillborn. The cure you prefer would have worked in a neoliberal age, but that age stopped around 2015. The current condition - retreating globalisation, less trade, more migration waves - require new solutions, and the old ways won't work. We have just spent two years pushing on a string with higher interest rates, and were surprised it didn't work. Making mistakes is one thing, but failing to learn from them is another.

    [1] https://www.waterstones.com/book/end-times/peter-turchin//9780241553480
    Who exactly is qualified to wield power but also willing to utilise disaffected masses to overthrow regimes?

    My judgement of the former would be somewhat* tempered by the latter.

    *utterly
    In Turchin terms, "elites" is a simple synonym for "power havers". "Elite overproduction" is when people capable of wielding power (I used the word "qualified" above, which misled, my apologies) are denied it thru simple lack of powerful positions. He uses it to refer to well-educated people with professional/academic positions who have sufficient interest in the world and sufficient time to formulate theories.

    Here's a thing: Lenin trained to be a lawyer, Stalin a priest, Mao a teacher/librarian, Hitler an artist. All in different circumstances would be comfortable professionals. But lacking a outlet for their gifts and surrounded by disaffected, they went into politics, won, overthrew the existing order and remade the world...and we spent fifty years cleaning up after them.

    Although not in the same league (obvs) consider somebody like Matthew Goodwin. A man of considerable gifts and academic achievement, he has the time and intelligence to build an underlying theory of the world and the desire to change the world accordingly. But in a nation of 68 million people (69, 70...remember, it's increasing) and only 650 seats at the top level and a few thou(?) at devolved level, he cannot wield the power he believes to be his right.

    So my answer to your question is "...well-educated people/autodidacts with professional/academic positions who have sufficient interest in the world, sufficient time to formulate theories, and sufficient resources to pursue power..."

    Does that answer your question?
    So you are suggesting Matt Goodwin is a future dictator of the United Kingdom? Sounds more like a spoof
    No. I gave him a an example of an overproduced elite. As the number of the former increase, and the number of the immiserated poor similarly increase, the probability of revolution increases. He will orobably not become UK dictator, any more than an individual pebble can be predicted to cause the avalanche. But as the number goes up, the probability that somebody will rises.

    Recall that Farage was a metals trader. Everybody laughed at him. Then he won.
  • Options

    Curtice has spoken and it's bad news for Tories and the SNP. Deposit loss for the Blues looking possible.

    Well, HS2 was never, ever going to go to Glasgow, was it? :lol:
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,814
    edited October 2023
    Turnout = 37.19%. Around 30,000 votes.

    My prediction was 40%, although I forget to post it on here. 50% was always too high a forecast IMO.
  • Options
    37.19% turnout
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,108
    Well what do you know, most eligible voters did nae bother
  • Options
    If Keith Brown is right, and the Tory vote has collapsed to Lab then this could be a very interesting result indeed.
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    RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,182

    If Keith Brown is right, and the Tory vote has collapsed to Lab then this could be a very interesting result indeed.

    If the by-election happens, East Kilbride looks very much in play
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    37.19% turnout

    Back in 2012, Manchester Central = 18.2%
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,814

    37.19% turnout

    Back in 2012, Manchester Central = 18.2%
    Leeds Central 1999 was around 19% IIRC.
  • Options

    37.19% turnout

    Back in 2012, Manchester Central = 18.2%
    Very high population of students and generally lazy bastards.

    (Source: am Mancunian)
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    Andy_JS said:

    37.19% turnout

    Back in 2012, Manchester Central = 18.2%
    Leeds Central 1999 was around 19% IIRC.
    19.6%
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    carnforthcarnforth Posts: 3,368
    Benchmarks from Britain Predicts:

    Labour margin of win in Rutherglen today will imply X Lab seats in Scotland

    +15pts: 29 seats (+28) on 2019
    +10pts: 21 seats
    +5pts: 12 seats
    +0pts: 3 seats
    -5pts: 2 seats
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    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,936
    edited October 2023
    Andy_JS said:

    Turnout = 37.19%. Around 30,000 votes.

    My prediction was 40%, although I forget to post it on here. 50% was always too high a forecast IMO.

    No swing -> SNP maj approx 2900
    5% swing to Lab -> Lab maj 100
    10% swing to Lab -> Lab maj 3100
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,108
    carnforth said:

    Benchmarks from Britain Predicts:

    Labour margin of win in Rutherglen today will imply X Lab seats in Scotland

    +15pts: 29 seats (+28) on 2019
    +10pts: 21 seats
    +5pts: 12 seats
    +0pts: 3 seats
    -5pts: 2 seats

    10% is 3100 or so.
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    carnforthcarnforth Posts: 3,368
    edited October 2023
    Pulpstar said:

    carnforth said:

    Benchmarks from Britain Predicts:

    Labour margin of win in Rutherglen today will imply X Lab seats in Scotland

    +15pts: 29 seats (+28) on 2019
    +10pts: 21 seats
    +5pts: 12 seats
    +0pts: 3 seats
    -5pts: 2 seats

    10% is 3100 or so.
    ...
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,690
    BBC by election special suggests sources at count saying a 7-8% swing from SNP to Labour since 2019 and Labour will clearly gain the seat from the SNP. The Tories will likely lose their deposit
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    viewcode said:

    I have no idea who will win tonight, have not researched the situation and so cannot predict. Best of luck to all those of you who have placed a bet and I hope you make a profit.

    You shouldn't let that be an impediment, no one else has.

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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,793
    On a night when Scottish Independence hangs in the balance, Penny pans Starmer for failure to curtail Drakeford's plans for Welsh Independence

    https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/senior-cabinet-minister-told-outright-27839685
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    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,936
    carnforth said:

    Benchmarks from Britain Predicts:

    Labour margin of win in Rutherglen today will imply X Lab seats in Scotland

    +15pts: 29 seats (+28) on 2019
    +10pts: 21 seats
    +5pts: 12 seats
    +0pts: 3 seats
    -5pts: 2 seats

    Lab +14pts is the point at which they'd win any East Kilbride by election on a matching result.
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    FarooqFarooq Posts: 11,401

    Andy_JS said:

    37.19% turnout

    Back in 2012, Manchester Central = 18.2%
    Leeds Central 1999 was around 19% IIRC.
    19.6%
    That was a fun election by the look of it. Benn, Hill, and two different people called Wild.
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    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,936
    HYUFD said:

    BBC by election special suggests sources at count saying a 7-8% swing from SNP to Labour since 2019 and Labour will clearly gain the seat from the SNP. The Tories will likely lose their deposit

    Around 1300-1900.

    Game on :)
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    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,637

    On a night when Scottish Independence hangs in the balance, Penny pans Starmer for failure to curtail Drakeford's plans for Welsh Independence

    https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/senior-cabinet-minister-told-outright-27839685

    Penny will learn,

    You don’t shake The Drake.
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    FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,038
    Farooq said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Tres said:

    +1690 Lab

    The William of Orange option. 🙂
    Actually kinda surprised nobody said 1488 and glad they didn't.
    I wrote 1707 and then thought better of it.
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    HYUFD said:

    BBC by election special suggests sources at count saying a 7-8% swing from SNP to Labour since 2019 and Labour will clearly gain the seat from the SNP. The Tories will likely lose their deposit

    A seismically modest swing..
  • Options
    Another Tory dividend. Good work, especially when the turnout was a measly 37%.


  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,814
    Listening to politicians arguing with each other before a by-election result is as infuriating as ever.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,690

    HYUFD said:

    BBC by election special suggests sources at count saying a 7-8% swing from SNP to Labour since 2019 and Labour will clearly gain the seat from the SNP. The Tories will likely lose their deposit

    A seismically modest swing..
    Not that modest, the SNP would lose over 10 MPs to Labour on that swing
  • Options

    Farooq said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Tres said:

    +1690 Lab

    The William of Orange option. 🙂
    Actually kinda surprised nobody said 1488 and glad they didn't.
    I wrote 1707 and then thought better of it.
    1603 was right there.
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    ClippPClippP Posts: 1,756
    HYUFD said:

    BBC by election special suggests sources at count saying a 7-8% swing from SNP to Labour since 2019 and Labour will clearly gain the seat from the SNP. The Tories will likely lose their deposit

    Are you still to be counted as a Conservative, young HY?

    Just wondering....

    But if so, any particular reason?
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    30 minutes to declaration, apparently.
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    Lab briefing 55% of the vote share.
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,814

    Lab briefing 55% of the vote share.

    That would be roughly a 20% lead and a 15% swing.
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    Andy_JS said:

    Lab briefing 55% of the vote share.

    That would be roughly a 20% lead and a 15% swing.
    HOO BOY.
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    nico679nico679 Posts: 5,281

    Lab briefing 55% of the vote share.

    Surely not , that would be an incredible result .
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    AramintaMoonbeamQCAramintaMoonbeamQC Posts: 3,681
    edited October 2023
    nico679 said:

    Lab briefing 55% of the vote share.

    Surely not , that would be an incredible result .
    I would not be surprised at all by that, tbh.

    It is back to pre Indyref levels of Labour vote. They got 60% in 2010. The SNP should be bricking it if the result is anything like that.

    Update: Times Scotland political editor saying 15% swing.
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    Andy_JS said:

    Lab briefing 55% of the vote share.

    That would be roughly a 20% lead and a 15% swing.
    HOO BOY.
    SNP getting stepmommed.
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    Count faster, Weegies.
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    FarooqFarooq Posts: 11,401

    Count faster, Weegies.

    We're lucky they're counting overnight at all! Some elections in Scotland start counting the next day :disappointed:
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    EabhalEabhal Posts: 6,500
    Anas Sarwar supports 20mph limits in all urban areas.

    Just saying.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-56750836

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    Farooq said:

    Count faster, Weegies.

    We're lucky they're counting overnight at all! Some elections in Scotland start counting the next day :disappointed:
    Tbf, some of the ballot boxes have to come back on a boat...
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    FarooqFarooq Posts: 11,401

    Farooq said:

    Count faster, Weegies.

    We're lucky they're counting overnight at all! Some elections in Scotland start counting the next day :disappointed:
    Tbf, some of the ballot boxes have to come back on a boat...
    I wonder what the highest number of inhabited islands in an individual constituency is
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,714
    If Liz Truss hadn't blown up her premiership, her snub of Nicola Sturgeon would be looking like a political masterstroke at the moment.
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    You wouldn't give Ross Greer a job washing up, would you? Unemployable.
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    FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,038
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Count faster, Weegies.

    We're lucky they're counting overnight at all! Some elections in Scotland start counting the next day :disappointed:
    Tbf, some of the ballot boxes have to come back on a boat...
    I wonder what the highest number of inhabited islands in an individual constituency is
    Orkney and Shetland will win that. About 35?
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    FarooqFarooq Posts: 11,401
    This result is going to help Labour in the other by-elections down south, isn't it?
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    01:15 declaration, apparently.
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    Farooq said:

    This result is going to help Labour in the other by-elections down south, isn't it?

    Yes.

    It will reinforce the belief that Starmer = Lawyer = Winner.
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    FarooqFarooq Posts: 11,401

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Count faster, Weegies.

    We're lucky they're counting overnight at all! Some elections in Scotland start counting the next day :disappointed:
    Tbf, some of the ballot boxes have to come back on a boat...
    I wonder what the highest number of inhabited islands in an individual constituency is
    Orkney and Shetland will win that. About 35?
    I was thinking Na h-Eileanan an Iar but you're right
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,714

    Farooq said:

    This result is going to help Labour in the other by-elections down south, isn't it?

    Yes.

    It will reinforce the belief that Starmer = Lawyer = Winner.
    I'm not seeing how lawyer fits into this equation.
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    FarooqFarooq Posts: 11,401

    Farooq said:

    This result is going to help Labour in the other by-elections down south, isn't it?

    Yes.

    It will reinforce the belief that Starmer = Lawyer = Winner.
    I'm not seeing how lawyer fits into this equation.
    TSE = lawyer = nearly as clever as he thinks he is
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,386
    Farooq said:

    This result is going to help Labour in the other by-elections down south, isn't it?

    Labour has been moving in on Betfair today for mid-Beds - currently on 2, with Tories on 3 and LibDems on 5.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 115,121
    edited October 2023

    Farooq said:

    This result is going to help Labour in the other by-elections down south, isn't it?

    Yes.

    It will reinforce the belief that Starmer = Lawyer = Winner.
    I'm not seeing how lawyer fits into this equation.
    Apart from Wilson, all of Labour's majority leaders have been lawyers since the war.

    When a lawyer has taken on a non lawyer in a Con v Labour leader front the lawyer has always won.

    In short, being a lawyer helps win general elections when you're up against a non lawyer.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,386
    Given the advances in AI, isn't it odd that TV subtitling of speech is so rubbish? Nearly every sentence appears as part-gibberish.
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    FarooqFarooq Posts: 11,401

    Farooq said:

    This result is going to help Labour in the other by-elections down south, isn't it?

    Yes.

    It will reinforce the belief that Starmer = Lawyer = Winner.
    I'm not seeing how lawyer fits into this equation.
    Apart from Wilson, all of Labour's majority leaders have been lawyers since the war.

    When a lawyer has taken on a non lawyer in a Con v Labour leader front the lawyer has always won.

    In short, being a lawyer helps win general elections when you're up against a non lawyer.
    It'll be fascinating to find out who Starmer will be facing
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 11,401

    Given the advances in AI, isn't it odd that TV subtitling of speech is so rubbish? Nearly every sentence appears as part-gibberish.

    Nick, that's just how Rutherglen folk talk
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,714
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    This result is going to help Labour in the other by-elections down south, isn't it?

    Yes.

    It will reinforce the belief that Starmer = Lawyer = Winner.
    I'm not seeing how lawyer fits into this equation.
    Apart from Wilson, all of Labour's majority leaders have been lawyers since the war.

    When a lawyer has taken on a non lawyer in a Con v Labour leader front the lawyer has always won.

    In short, being a lawyer helps win general elections when you're up against a non lawyer.
    It'll be fascinating to find out who Starmer will be facing
    Based on TSE's theory, the Tories need to find someone like Bill Cash.
  • Options
    FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,038

    Given the advances in AI, isn't it odd that TV subtitling of speech is so rubbish? Nearly every sentence appears as part-gibberish.

    It is very annoying. Live and auto-subtitled programmes are always hopeless.

    Tempting to feed the audio into a local computer to see if it can do better.
  • Options
    Former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani owes over half million dollars in federal taxes, and the IRS has placed a lien on his property in Palm Beach, per @Tom_Winter and @jonathan4ny

    https://twitter.com/KenDilanianNBC/status/1710050533556326489
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,690

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    This result is going to help Labour in the other by-elections down south, isn't it?

    Yes.

    It will reinforce the belief that Starmer = Lawyer = Winner.
    I'm not seeing how lawyer fits into this equation.
    Apart from Wilson, all of Labour's majority leaders have been lawyers since the war.

    When a lawyer has taken on a non lawyer in a Con v Labour leader front the lawyer has always won.

    In short, being a lawyer helps win general elections when you're up against a non lawyer.
    It'll be fascinating to find out who Starmer will be facing
    Based on TSE's theory, the Tories need to find someone like Bill Cash.
    Barclay and Braverman were lawyers
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,690

    Farooq said:

    This result is going to help Labour in the other by-elections down south, isn't it?

    Yes.

    It will reinforce the belief that Starmer = Lawyer = Winner.
    I'm not seeing how lawyer fits into this equation.
    Apart from Wilson, all of Labour's majority leaders have been lawyers since the war.

    When a lawyer has taken on a non lawyer in a Con v Labour leader front the lawyer has always won.

    In short, being a lawyer helps win general elections when you're up against a non lawyer.
    Not always, non lawyer Churchill beat lawyer Attlee in 1951
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    This result is going to help Labour in the other by-elections down south, isn't it?

    Yes.

    It will reinforce the belief that Starmer = Lawyer = Winner.
    I'm not seeing how lawyer fits into this equation.
    Apart from Wilson, all of Labour's majority leaders have been lawyers since the war.

    When a lawyer has taken on a non lawyer in a Con v Labour leader front the lawyer has always won.

    In short, being a lawyer helps win general elections when you're up against a non lawyer.
    Not always, non lawyer Churchill beat lawyer Attlee in 1951
    Attlee won the popular vote.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,714
    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    This result is going to help Labour in the other by-elections down south, isn't it?

    Yes.

    It will reinforce the belief that Starmer = Lawyer = Winner.
    I'm not seeing how lawyer fits into this equation.
    Apart from Wilson, all of Labour's majority leaders have been lawyers since the war.

    When a lawyer has taken on a non lawyer in a Con v Labour leader front the lawyer has always won.

    In short, being a lawyer helps win general elections when you're up against a non lawyer.
    It'll be fascinating to find out who Starmer will be facing
    Based on TSE's theory, the Tories need to find someone like Bill Cash.
    Barclay and Braverman were lawyers
    And Braverman went to the Sorbonne.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,690

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    This result is going to help Labour in the other by-elections down south, isn't it?

    Yes.

    It will reinforce the belief that Starmer = Lawyer = Winner.
    I'm not seeing how lawyer fits into this equation.
    Apart from Wilson, all of Labour's majority leaders have been lawyers since the war.

    When a lawyer has taken on a non lawyer in a Con v Labour leader front the lawyer has always won.

    In short, being a lawyer helps win general elections when you're up against a non lawyer.
    Not always, non lawyer Churchill beat lawyer Attlee in 1951
    Attlee won the popular vote.
    So did Al Gore and Hillary Clinton and Ted Heath in Feb 1974, all 4 still lost the election
  • Options

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    This result is going to help Labour in the other by-elections down south, isn't it?

    Yes.

    It will reinforce the belief that Starmer = Lawyer = Winner.
    I'm not seeing how lawyer fits into this equation.
    Apart from Wilson, all of Labour's majority leaders have been lawyers since the war.

    When a lawyer has taken on a non lawyer in a Con v Labour leader front the lawyer has always won.

    In short, being a lawyer helps win general elections when you're up against a non lawyer.
    It'll be fascinating to find out who Starmer will be facing
    Based on TSE's theory, the Tories need to find someone like Bill Cash.
    Barclay and Braverman were lawyers
    And Braverman went to the Sorbonne.
    More importantly, Braverman and Barclay are Cambridge educated lawyers.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,714
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,492

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    This result is going to help Labour in the other by-elections down south, isn't it?

    Yes.

    It will reinforce the belief that Starmer = Lawyer = Winner.
    I'm not seeing how lawyer fits into this equation.
    Apart from Wilson, all of Labour's majority leaders have been lawyers since the war.

    When a lawyer has taken on a non lawyer in a Con v Labour leader front the lawyer has always won.

    In short, being a lawyer helps win general elections when you're up against a non lawyer.
    It'll be fascinating to find out who Starmer will be facing
    Based on TSE's theory, the Tories need to find someone like Bill Cash.
    Barclay and Braverman were lawyers
    And Braverman went to the Sorbonne.
    I'm not sure that's anything to be that excited by: the Sorbonne barely sneaks into the top 50 universities worldwide, while Cambridge (where she also studied) is 8th.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,814
    edited October 2023
    Labour hold in the Tamworth local by-election.

    "Amington

    Lab 669
    Con 526
    Ind Cook 242
    Reform UK 98
    UKIP 25

    via Richard Price on Twitter"


    Labour hold in Vauxhall local by-election.

    "LAMBETH Vauxhall

    SWAINE-JAMESON, Tom Simon (Labour Party) 595
    ALDERECHI, Fareed (Liberal Democrats) 395
    BOND, Jacqueline Rose (The Green Party) 256
    ROTHERHAM, Lee Stuart (Conservative Party Candidate) 160
    LAMBERT, Daniel Peter (The Socialist Party (GB)) 9"
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,637

    Given the advances in AI, isn't it odd that TV subtitling of speech is so rubbish? Nearly every sentence appears as part-gibberish.

    Yes, it’s rather like auto correct on phones - mostly garbage. Makes one wonder whether AI is all it’s cracked up to be.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,690
    edited October 2023

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    This result is going to help Labour in the other by-elections down south, isn't it?

    Yes.

    It will reinforce the belief that Starmer = Lawyer = Winner.
    I'm not seeing how lawyer fits into this equation.
    Apart from Wilson, all of Labour's majority leaders have been lawyers since the war.

    When a lawyer has taken on a non lawyer in a Con v Labour leader front the lawyer has always won.

    In short, being a lawyer helps win general elections when you're up against a non lawyer.
    It'll be fascinating to find out who Starmer will be facing
    Based on TSE's theory, the Tories need to find someone like Bill Cash.
    Barclay and Braverman were lawyers
    And Braverman went to the Sorbonne.
    Barclay or Braverman v Starmer would be the first
    lawyer v lawyer election since Blair v Howard.

    Barclay or Braverman would
    also be the first Cambridge
    educated Tory leaders since
    Howard too (and in Braverman's case the
    Sorbonne)
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,492
    Weren't we due the result about 10 minutes ago?
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,463

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    This result is going to help Labour in the other by-elections down south, isn't it?

    Yes.

    It will reinforce the belief that Starmer = Lawyer = Winner.
    I'm not seeing how lawyer fits into this equation.
    Apart from Wilson, all of Labour's majority leaders have been lawyers since the war.

    When a lawyer has taken on a non lawyer in a Con v Labour leader front the lawyer has always won.

    In short, being a lawyer helps win general elections when you're up against a non lawyer.
    It'll be fascinating to find out who Starmer will be facing
    Based on TSE's theory, the Tories need to find someone like Bill Cash.
    Barclay and Braverman were lawyers
    And Braverman went to the Sorbonne.
    Doctored in mathematics
    She could have been a don
    She can program a computer
    Choose the perfect time
    If you've got the inclination
    She has got the crime

  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,690
    Bodes well for the by election there too
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,386
    How did the atypical Wednesday results yesterday go?
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 6,500
    edited October 2023
    Genius caller on radio requests Burns'

    My love is like a red red rose

    🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,814
    edited October 2023
    HYUFD said:

    Bodes well for the by election there too
    Reform getting 6% in this ward suggests they might have an outside chance of saving their deposit at the Westminster by-election. The ward is fairly typical of the seat as a whole.
This discussion has been closed.