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This looks good the LAB and Starmer – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,215
edited October 2023 in General
This looks good the LAB and Starmer – politicalbetting.com

Labour is the most trusted party in the Red Wall on every issue EXCEPT Ukraine.Who do Red Wall voters trust the most on…? (Lab | Con)NHS (38% | 22%)Housing (34% | 22%)Economy (34% | 29%)Immigration (28% | 27%)Ukraine (29% | 30%)https://t.co/LAF0h30Asw pic.twitter.com/GnofKrgno9

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Comments

  • Good for Labour, and perhaps also means the government should have a word with itself.
  • Donald Duck upside down is secretly Donald Trump.

    https://twitter.com/oybay/status/1707214856682865118

  • Penddu2Penddu2 Posts: 718
    Third - like Wales will fimish in RWC
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    edited September 2023
    FPT
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-66934545

    "The ex-partner of a man who suffocated their three-month-old daughter said she feels "let down" and scared to learn of his imminent release.

    Simon Smith killed baby Lauren in 1994 in Staffordshire. An investigation led to the grim discovery he had also murdered his two other children.

    He was convicted of all three murders and jailed for life in 1996.

    Lauren's mother Rachel Playfair said the public would be horrified to know a triple murderer was being released.

    The Parole Board confirmed it had directed the release of Smith on licence following a hearing."

    Unless we lock 'em up and throw away the key, we shall continue to hear these stories whenever a murderer is released or paroled. Some will say life should mean life, or even death.
    For these type of cases it would now be a whole life term if sentenced in the present day.

    Since the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act was passed by this Conservative government last year, premeditated murder of a child means judges must give an automatic whole life term order
    The issue people should consider more this is the cost of 'throwing away the key'. If you aren't going to execute the prisoner, you have to accept that they have some rights, IE the right not to be murdered or assaulted by another inmate. They need to be fed etc. The cost is I believe about £47,000 per prisoner per year in the UK, but higher in very high security prisons. Even if you got rid of human rights and have poor conditions with jails like in the USA, the cost does not reduce that much (it is something like $40,000 per prisoner per year at federal level).

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,211
    edited September 2023
    The GOP Congress is a bunch of risible amateurs. How does anyone take this seriously ?

    U.S. Rep. Jason Smith (R-MO) melts down as an NBC reporter questions GOP claims of DOJ political interference in favor of Joe Biden before he was president.
    https://twitter.com/HeartlandSignal/status/1707103282001277004
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,422
    edited September 2023
    Fewer than half of trainee GPs go on to work full time for the NHS
    High dropout rate has left health service increasingly reliant on foreign doctors to fill vacancies, report warns

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/09/27/trainee-doctors-full-time-nhs/ (£££)

    Link to the source think tank report:-
    https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/research/waste-not-want-not-strategies-to-improve-the-supply-of-clinical-staff-to-the-nhs
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,211
    A geoengineering proposal to address global warming.
    Looks pretty good to me.

    https://nephewjonathan.substack.com/p/diy-geoengineering-the-whitepaper
    ...Global warming, though not ocean acidification, is quickly and cheaply reversed by ejecting calcite nanoparticles (with an average radius in the ~90nm range) into the stratosphere, using a propeller-based system to prevent particle clumping. The particles should be carried up by hydrogen balloons, and very preferably released over the tropics. The total amount needed will be on the order of several hundred kilotons yearly, and the total cost should be somewhere between $1B and $5B yearly.

    Let's go through this piece by piece...


    Even if the cost is out by an order of magnitude, it could easily be funded by (for instance) the EU on its own.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,403

    Fewer than half of trainee GPs go on to work full time for the NHS
    High dropout rate has left health service increasingly reliant on foreign doctors to fill vacancies, report warns

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/09/27/trainee-doctors-full-time-nhs/ (£££)

    Link to the source think tank report:-
    https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/research/waste-not-want-not-strategies-to-improve-the-supply-of-clinical-staff-to-the-nhs

    This. This, this, this. Why are we training British doctors if they won't treat British people? We have built a country that only works by importing more and more people to fill the gaps. We are not a serious country.
  • Nigelb said:

    A geoengineering proposal to address global warming.
    Looks pretty good to me.

    https://nephewjonathan.substack.com/p/diy-geoengineering-the-whitepaper
    ...Global warming, though not ocean acidification, is quickly and cheaply reversed by ejecting calcite nanoparticles (with an average radius in the ~90nm range) into the stratosphere, using a propeller-based system to prevent particle clumping. The particles should be carried up by hydrogen balloons, and very preferably released over the tropics. The total amount needed will be on the order of several hundred kilotons yearly, and the total cost should be somewhere between $1B and $5B yearly.

    Let's go through this piece by piece...


    Even if the cost is out by an order of magnitude, it could easily be funded by (for instance) the EU on its own.

    If it goes wrong, how easily can it be reversed? And who is to judge whether or not it works?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,004

    Donald Duck upside down is secretly Donald Trump.

    https://twitter.com/oybay/status/1707214856682865118

    Chris Christie called him Donald Duck on stage tonight, for avoiding the GOP debates.

    To say the debate was chaotic, would be an understatement. The moderators were rubbish, and the candidates spent half the time talking over each other.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,403
    Nigelb said:

    A geoengineering proposal to address global warming.
    Looks pretty good to me.

    https://nephewjonathan.substack.com/p/diy-geoengineering-the-whitepaper
    ...Global warming, though not ocean acidification, is quickly and cheaply reversed by ejecting calcite nanoparticles (with an average radius in the ~90nm range) into the stratosphere, using a propeller-based system to prevent particle clumping. The particles should be carried up by hydrogen balloons, and very preferably released over the tropics. The total amount needed will be on the order of several hundred kilotons yearly, and the total cost should be somewhere between $1B and $5B yearly.

    Let's go through this piece by piece...


    Even if the cost is out by an order of magnitude, it could easily be funded by (for instance) the EU on its own.

    I am very suspicious of geoengineering. If it's big enough to make a significant difference, it's big enough to create a significant problem. Try it small scale first. Very small scale.
  • Nigelb said:

    A geoengineering proposal to address global warming.
    Looks pretty good to me.

    https://nephewjonathan.substack.com/p/diy-geoengineering-the-whitepaper
    ...Global warming, though not ocean acidification, is quickly and cheaply reversed by ejecting calcite nanoparticles (with an average radius in the ~90nm range) into the stratosphere, using a propeller-based system to prevent particle clumping. The particles should be carried up by hydrogen balloons, and very preferably released over the tropics. The total amount needed will be on the order of several hundred kilotons yearly, and the total cost should be somewhere between $1B and $5B yearly.

    Let's go through this piece by piece...


    Even if the cost is out by an order of magnitude, it could easily be funded by (for instance) the EU on its own.

    Interesting, but it does sound a bit like Spike Milligan's suggestion for dealing with London fog - starch it, and jack it up.
  • Nigelb said:

    A geoengineering proposal to address global warming.
    Looks pretty good to me.

    https://nephewjonathan.substack.com/p/diy-geoengineering-the-whitepaper
    ...Global warming, though not ocean acidification, is quickly and cheaply reversed by ejecting calcite nanoparticles (with an average radius in the ~90nm range) into the stratosphere, using a propeller-based system to prevent particle clumping. The particles should be carried up by hydrogen balloons, and very preferably released over the tropics. The total amount needed will be on the order of several hundred kilotons yearly, and the total cost should be somewhere between $1B and $5B yearly.

    Let's go through this piece by piece...


    Even if the cost is out by an order of magnitude, it could easily be funded by (for instance) the EU on its own.

    It's only engineering and infrastructure that's going to get us out of this. Nothing else.

    Fundamentally, global warming is an energy problem. Change the source and mode and it goes away.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,211

    Nigelb said:

    A geoengineering proposal to address global warming.
    Looks pretty good to me.

    https://nephewjonathan.substack.com/p/diy-geoengineering-the-whitepaper
    ...Global warming, though not ocean acidification, is quickly and cheaply reversed by ejecting calcite nanoparticles (with an average radius in the ~90nm range) into the stratosphere, using a propeller-based system to prevent particle clumping. The particles should be carried up by hydrogen balloons, and very preferably released over the tropics. The total amount needed will be on the order of several hundred kilotons yearly, and the total cost should be somewhere between $1B and $5B yearly.

    Let's go through this piece by piece...


    Even if the cost is out by an order of magnitude, it could easily be funded by (for instance) the EU on its own.

    If it goes wrong, how easily can it be reversed? And who is to judge whether or not it works?
    Very easily - you just stop stop doing it.

    As for judging if it works, the effect of the recent desulphurisation of marine propulsion oil (in raising tropical ocean surface temperatures) was dramatically evident within a couple of years.
    You would expect a similar, but opposite effect from this.

    Read the article.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    Trump has suffered a massive legal defeat in New York that closes down his businesses for commiting persistent fraud:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMlVD75RTaw&ab_channel=MeidasTouch
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,004

    Trump has suffered a massive legal defeat in New York that closes down his businesses for commiting persistent fraud:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMlVD75RTaw&ab_channel=MeidasTouch

    A summary judgement, that makes wild allegations from the prosecution about the value of his properties, from a judge and a prosecutor elected on a platform of “We’ll Get Trump”.

    They suggest that the 17-acre Mar-a-Lago property is worth $18m, when half an acre with a house on it next door sells for double that amount.

    Zillow - Palm Beach, FL

    You don’t have to like the guy, to think that there’s a co-ordinated effort to tie him up in legalities for the next year.

    This is the sort of sh!t we see in Africa, not what you’d expect in a first world democracy.
  • Nigelb said:

    A geoengineering proposal to address global warming.
    Looks pretty good to me.

    https://nephewjonathan.substack.com/p/diy-geoengineering-the-whitepaper
    ...Global warming, though not ocean acidification, is quickly and cheaply reversed by ejecting calcite nanoparticles (with an average radius in the ~90nm range) into the stratosphere, using a propeller-based system to prevent particle clumping. The particles should be carried up by hydrogen balloons, and very preferably released over the tropics. The total amount needed will be on the order of several hundred kilotons yearly, and the total cost should be somewhere between $1B and $5B yearly.

    Let's go through this piece by piece...


    Even if the cost is out by an order of magnitude, it could easily be funded by (for instance) the EU on its own.

    If it goes wrong, how easily can it be reversed? And who is to judge whether or not it works?
    It's OK, you do it over the tropics so if anything goes wrong it's not us who will be affected. Genius!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,211
    Sandpit said:

    Trump has suffered a massive legal defeat in New York that closes down his businesses for commiting persistent fraud:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMlVD75RTaw&ab_channel=MeidasTouch

    A summary judgement, that makes wild allegations from the prosecution about the value of his properties, from a judge and a prosecutor elected on a platform of “We’ll Get Trump”.

    They suggest that the 17-acre Mar-a-Lago property is worth $18m...
    The argument isn't over present day values, but about the Trump organisation's long history of financial misstatements.

    And the case will go before a jury.
    Note Trump's lawyer was arguing yesterday that it didn't need to (there are another half dozen charges).


  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,211

    Nigelb said:

    A geoengineering proposal to address global warming.
    Looks pretty good to me.

    https://nephewjonathan.substack.com/p/diy-geoengineering-the-whitepaper
    ...Global warming, though not ocean acidification, is quickly and cheaply reversed by ejecting calcite nanoparticles (with an average radius in the ~90nm range) into the stratosphere, using a propeller-based system to prevent particle clumping. The particles should be carried up by hydrogen balloons, and very preferably released over the tropics. The total amount needed will be on the order of several hundred kilotons yearly, and the total cost should be somewhere between $1B and $5B yearly.

    Let's go through this piece by piece...


    Even if the cost is out by an order of magnitude, it could easily be funded by (for instance) the EU on its own.

    If it goes wrong, how easily can it be reversed? And who is to judge whether or not it works?
    It's OK, you do it over the tropics so if anything goes wrong it's not us who will be affected. Genius!
    Can you suggest what there is to "go wrong" ?

    Point is that if it works, it works. If it doesn't, it's just a lot of non toxic dust in the atmosphere for a fairly short time. Which happens every time a wind blows across the Sahara.

    The reason did doing it in the tropics is that that's where the effect (as we've seen with what happened with the marine diesel sulphur ban) is most pronounced.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,004
    Did you ever chat with Google’s Bard AI chatbot?

    Well now your conversation is indexed in Google’s public search function. You’ll be hoping you didn’t ask it anything too personal, nor ask it anything that might identify you…

    https://venturebeat.com/ai/oops-google-search-caught-publicly-indexing-users-conversations-with-bard-ai/
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    Sandpit said:

    Trump has suffered a massive legal defeat in New York that closes down his businesses for commiting persistent fraud:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMlVD75RTaw&ab_channel=MeidasTouch

    A summary judgement, that makes wild allegations from the prosecution about the value of his properties, from a judge and a prosecutor elected on a platform of “We’ll Get Trump”.

    They suggest that the 17-acre Mar-a-Lago property is worth $18m, when half an acre with a house on it next door sells for double that amount.

    Zillow - Palm Beach, FL

    You don’t have to like the guy, to think that there’s a co-ordinated effort to tie him up in legalities for the next year.

    This is the sort of sh!t we see in Africa, not what you’d expect in a first world democracy.
    "They" didn't "suggest" the value - Trump agreed the valuation of $18m - to get the benefit of tax breaks!

    This is a civil case. There is discussion on whether this evidence can form the basis of a criminal prosecution (issues around whether statute of limitations apply, complicated by issues of the clock not running the four years he was President).

    But this summary judgement is utterly damning. And cancels the licences needed for the Trump businesses to operate in New York.

  • Sandpit said:

    Trump has suffered a massive legal defeat in New York that closes down his businesses for commiting persistent fraud:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMlVD75RTaw&ab_channel=MeidasTouch

    A summary judgement, that makes wild allegations from the prosecution about the value of his properties, from a judge and a prosecutor elected on a platform of “We’ll Get Trump”.

    They suggest that the 17-acre Mar-a-Lago property is worth $18m, when half an acre with a house on it next door sells for double that amount.

    Zillow - Palm Beach, FL

    You don’t have to like the guy, to think that there’s a co-ordinated effort to tie him up in legalities for the next year.

    This is the sort of sh!t we see in Africa, not what you’d expect in a first world democracy.
    Seems to help if you do like him though.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,591

    Sandpit said:

    Trump has suffered a massive legal defeat in New York that closes down his businesses for commiting persistent fraud:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMlVD75RTaw&ab_channel=MeidasTouch

    A summary judgement, that makes wild allegations from the prosecution about the value of his properties, from a judge and a prosecutor elected on a platform of “We’ll Get Trump”.

    They suggest that the 17-acre Mar-a-Lago property is worth $18m, when half an acre with a house on it next door sells for double that amount.

    Zillow - Palm Beach, FL

    You don’t have to like the guy, to think that there’s a co-ordinated effort to tie him up in legalities for the next year.

    This is the sort of sh!t we see in Africa, not what you’d expect in a first world democracy.
    "They" didn't "suggest" the value - Trump agreed the valuation of $18m - to get the benefit of tax breaks!

    This is a civil case. There is discussion on whether this evidence can form the basis of a criminal prosecution (issues around whether statute of limitations apply, complicated by issues of the clock not running the four years he was President).

    But this summary judgement is utterly damning. And cancels the licences needed for the Trump businesses to operate in New York.

    You have to remember this is Trump being caught by his own paperwork. He continually uses 2 separate sets of books - one for finance purposes and the other for tax purposes. Sadly after 5 years that process has caught up with him and people are now saying you can’t tell a bank it’s worth $50m and the tax man it’s worth $18m.
  • darkage said:

    FPT

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-66934545

    "The ex-partner of a man who suffocated their three-month-old daughter said she feels "let down" and scared to learn of his imminent release.

    Simon Smith killed baby Lauren in 1994 in Staffordshire. An investigation led to the grim discovery he had also murdered his two other children.

    He was convicted of all three murders and jailed for life in 1996.

    Lauren's mother Rachel Playfair said the public would be horrified to know a triple murderer was being released.

    The Parole Board confirmed it had directed the release of Smith on licence following a hearing."

    Unless we lock 'em up and throw away the key, we shall continue to hear these stories whenever a murderer is released or paroled. Some will say life should mean life, or even death.
    For these type of cases it would now be a whole life term if sentenced in the present day.

    Since the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act was passed by this Conservative government last year, premeditated murder of a child means judges must give an automatic whole life term order
    The issue people should consider more this is the cost of 'throwing away the key'. If you aren't going to execute the prisoner, you have to accept that they have some rights, IE the right not to be murdered or assaulted by another inmate. They need to be fed etc. The cost is I believe about £47,000 per prisoner per year in the UK, but higher in very high security prisons. Even if you got rid of human rights and have poor conditions with jails like in the USA, the cost does not reduce that much (it is something like $40,000 per prisoner per year at federal level).

    Maybe we should send them all to private school instead?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,211

    Sandpit said:

    Trump has suffered a massive legal defeat in New York that closes down his businesses for commiting persistent fraud:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMlVD75RTaw&ab_channel=MeidasTouch

    A summary judgement, that makes wild allegations from the prosecution about the value of his properties, from a judge and a prosecutor elected on a platform of “We’ll Get Trump”.

    They suggest that the 17-acre Mar-a-Lago property is worth $18m, when half an acre with a house on it next door sells for double that amount.

    Zillow - Palm Beach, FL

    You don’t have to like the guy, to think that there’s a co-ordinated effort to tie him up in legalities for the next year.

    This is the sort of sh!t we see in Africa, not what you’d expect in a first world democracy.
    "They" didn't "suggest" the value - Trump agreed the valuation of $18m - to get the benefit of tax breaks!

    This is a civil case. There is discussion on whether this evidence can form the basis of a criminal prosecution (issues around whether statute of limitations apply, complicated by issues of the clock not running the four years he was President).

    But this summary judgement is utterly damning. And cancels the licences needed for the Trump businesses to operate in New York.

    It does show how effective political social media is.
    The Trump line has been peddled for 24hrs, and even a relative political sophisticate like Sandpit is repeating it.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,004

    Sandpit said:

    Trump has suffered a massive legal defeat in New York that closes down his businesses for commiting persistent fraud:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMlVD75RTaw&ab_channel=MeidasTouch

    A summary judgement, that makes wild allegations from the prosecution about the value of his properties, from a judge and a prosecutor elected on a platform of “We’ll Get Trump”.

    They suggest that the 17-acre Mar-a-Lago property is worth $18m, when half an acre with a house on it next door sells for double that amount.

    Zillow - Palm Beach, FL

    You don’t have to like the guy, to think that there’s a co-ordinated effort to tie him up in legalities for the next year.

    This is the sort of sh!t we see in Africa, not what you’d expect in a first world democracy.
    "They" didn't "suggest" the value - Trump agreed the valuation of $18m - to get the benefit of tax breaks!

    This is a civil case. There is discussion on whether this evidence can form the basis of a criminal prosecution (issues around whether statute of limitations apply, complicated by issues of the clock not running the four years he was President).

    But this summary judgement is utterly damning. And cancels the licences needed for the Trump businesses to operate in New York.

    The “taxable value” came from the State’s assessor, not from Trump.

    The accusation is that he declared that as the taxable value, while using the actual value to secure the property against loans, and that the discrepancy amounts to fraud.

    Trying to do politics through the courts, is likely to increase his support rather than diminish it. It’s a seriously worrying development in a first-world democracy.
  • darkage said:

    FPT

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-66934545

    "The ex-partner of a man who suffocated their three-month-old daughter said she feels "let down" and scared to learn of his imminent release.

    Simon Smith killed baby Lauren in 1994 in Staffordshire. An investigation led to the grim discovery he had also murdered his two other children.

    He was convicted of all three murders and jailed for life in 1996.

    Lauren's mother Rachel Playfair said the public would be horrified to know a triple murderer was being released.

    The Parole Board confirmed it had directed the release of Smith on licence following a hearing."

    Unless we lock 'em up and throw away the key, we shall continue to hear these stories whenever a murderer is released or paroled. Some will say life should mean life, or even death.
    For these type of cases it would now be a whole life term if sentenced in the present day.

    Since the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act was passed by this Conservative government last year, premeditated murder of a child means judges must give an automatic whole life term order
    The issue people should consider more this is the cost of 'throwing away the key'. If you aren't going to execute the prisoner, you have to accept that they have some rights, IE the right not to be murdered or assaulted by another inmate. They need to be fed etc. The cost is I believe about £47,000 per prisoner per year in the UK, but higher in very high security prisons. Even if you got rid of human rights and have poor conditions with jails like in the USA, the cost does not reduce that much (it is something like $40,000 per prisoner per year at federal level).

    Maybe we should send them all to private school instead?
    Cruel and unusual punishment.
  • darkage said:

    FPT

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-66934545

    "The ex-partner of a man who suffocated their three-month-old daughter said she feels "let down" and scared to learn of his imminent release.

    Simon Smith killed baby Lauren in 1994 in Staffordshire. An investigation led to the grim discovery he had also murdered his two other children.

    He was convicted of all three murders and jailed for life in 1996.

    Lauren's mother Rachel Playfair said the public would be horrified to know a triple murderer was being released.

    The Parole Board confirmed it had directed the release of Smith on licence following a hearing."

    Unless we lock 'em up and throw away the key, we shall continue to hear these stories whenever a murderer is released or paroled. Some will say life should mean life, or even death.
    For these type of cases it would now be a whole life term if sentenced in the present day.

    Since the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act was passed by this Conservative government last year, premeditated murder of a child means judges must give an automatic whole life term order
    The issue people should consider more this is the cost of 'throwing away the key'. If you aren't going to execute the prisoner, you have to accept that they have some rights, IE the right not to be murdered or assaulted by another inmate. They need to be fed etc. The cost is I believe about £47,000 per prisoner per year in the UK, but higher in very high security prisons. Even if you got rid of human rights and have poor conditions with jails like in the USA, the cost does not reduce that much (it is something like $40,000 per prisoner per year at federal level).

    Maybe we should send them all to private school instead?
    On which point, it seems Starmer may agree with me and you:

    "Labour drops plan to strip public schools of charitable status"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66942985
  • Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    A geoengineering proposal to address global warming.
    Looks pretty good to me.

    https://nephewjonathan.substack.com/p/diy-geoengineering-the-whitepaper
    ...Global warming, though not ocean acidification, is quickly and cheaply reversed by ejecting calcite nanoparticles (with an average radius in the ~90nm range) into the stratosphere, using a propeller-based system to prevent particle clumping. The particles should be carried up by hydrogen balloons, and very preferably released over the tropics. The total amount needed will be on the order of several hundred kilotons yearly, and the total cost should be somewhere between $1B and $5B yearly.

    Let's go through this piece by piece...


    Even if the cost is out by an order of magnitude, it could easily be funded by (for instance) the EU on its own.

    If it goes wrong, how easily can it be reversed? And who is to judge whether or not it works?
    It's OK, you do it over the tropics so if anything goes wrong it's not us who will be affected. Genius!
    Can you suggest what there is to "go wrong" ?

    Point is that if it works, it works. If it doesn't, it's just a lot of non toxic dust in the atmosphere for a fairly short time. Which happens every time a wind blows across the Sahara.

    The reason did doing it in the tropics is that that's where the effect (as we've seen with what happened with the marine diesel sulphur ban) is most pronounced.
    What can possibly go wrong with reducing the amount of sunlight reaching areas of the world where people rely on it to grow food and are already often food-insecure... Hmm let me think.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Trump has suffered a massive legal defeat in New York that closes down his businesses for commiting persistent fraud:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMlVD75RTaw&ab_channel=MeidasTouch

    A summary judgement, that makes wild allegations from the prosecution about the value of his properties, from a judge and a prosecutor elected on a platform of “We’ll Get Trump”.

    They suggest that the 17-acre Mar-a-Lago property is worth $18m, when half an acre with a house on it next door sells for double that amount.

    Zillow - Palm Beach, FL

    You don’t have to like the guy, to think that there’s a co-ordinated effort to tie him up in legalities for the next year.

    This is the sort of sh!t we see in Africa, not what you’d expect in a first world democracy.
    "They" didn't "suggest" the value - Trump agreed the valuation of $18m - to get the benefit of tax breaks!

    This is a civil case. There is discussion on whether this evidence can form the basis of a criminal prosecution (issues around whether statute of limitations apply, complicated by issues of the clock not running the four years he was President).

    But this summary judgement is utterly damning. And cancels the licences needed for the Trump businesses to operate in New York.

    You have to remember this is Trump being caught by his own paperwork. He continually uses 2 separate sets of books - one for finance purposes and the other for tax purposes. Sadly after 5 years that process has caught up with him and people are now saying you can’t tell a bank it’s worth $50m and the tax man it’s worth $18m.
    Systemically citing lower property values for taxes, higher values for securing loans. Where this might possibly resonate to hurt Trump politically is anyone who applied for and didn't get a loan - because people like Trump were gaming the system to get loans. Telling the banks they had far more security than they did. Meaning the little guy loses out when trying to finance his business or his home.

    Not a good look.
  • darkage said:

    FPT

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-66934545

    "The ex-partner of a man who suffocated their three-month-old daughter said she feels "let down" and scared to learn of his imminent release.

    Simon Smith killed baby Lauren in 1994 in Staffordshire. An investigation led to the grim discovery he had also murdered his two other children.

    He was convicted of all three murders and jailed for life in 1996.

    Lauren's mother Rachel Playfair said the public would be horrified to know a triple murderer was being released.

    The Parole Board confirmed it had directed the release of Smith on licence following a hearing."

    Unless we lock 'em up and throw away the key, we shall continue to hear these stories whenever a murderer is released or paroled. Some will say life should mean life, or even death.
    For these type of cases it would now be a whole life term if sentenced in the present day.

    Since the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act was passed by this Conservative government last year, premeditated murder of a child means judges must give an automatic whole life term order
    The issue people should consider more this is the cost of 'throwing away the key'. If you aren't going to execute the prisoner, you have to accept that they have some rights, IE the right not to be murdered or assaulted by another inmate. They need to be fed etc. The cost is I believe about £47,000 per prisoner per year in the UK, but higher in very high security prisons. Even if you got rid of human rights and have poor conditions with jails like in the USA, the cost does not reduce that much (it is something like $40,000 per prisoner per year at federal level).

    Maybe we should send them all to private school instead?
    On which point, it seems Starmer may agree with me and you:

    "Labour drops plan to strip public schools of charitable status"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66942985
    Let's all agree that Labour has adopted a sensible compromise that raises money to fund education for the majority without being unnecessarily punitive on this persecuted minority.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,211
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Trump has suffered a massive legal defeat in New York that closes down his businesses for commiting persistent fraud:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMlVD75RTaw&ab_channel=MeidasTouch

    A summary judgement, that makes wild allegations from the prosecution about the value of his properties, from a judge and a prosecutor elected on a platform of “We’ll Get Trump”.

    They suggest that the 17-acre Mar-a-Lago property is worth $18m, when half an acre with a house on it next door sells for double that amount.

    Zillow - Palm Beach, FL

    You don’t have to like the guy, to think that there’s a co-ordinated effort to tie him up in legalities for the next year.

    This is the sort of sh!t we see in Africa, not what you’d expect in a first world democracy.
    "They" didn't "suggest" the value - Trump agreed the valuation of $18m - to get the benefit of tax breaks!

    This is a civil case. There is discussion on whether this evidence can form the basis of a criminal prosecution (issues around whether statute of limitations apply, complicated by issues of the clock not running the four years he was President).

    But this summary judgement is utterly damning. And cancels the licences needed for the Trump businesses to operate in New York.

    The “taxable value” came from the State’s assessor, not from Trump.

    The accusation is that he declared that as the taxable value, while using the actual value to secure the property against loans, and that the discrepancy amounts to fraud.

    Trying to do politics through the courts, is likely to increase his support rather than diminish it. It’s a seriously worrying development in a first-world democracy.
    I look forward to your expressing similar disquiet over the 'impeachment' of Hunter Biden.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,712
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Trump has suffered a massive legal defeat in New York that closes down his businesses for commiting persistent fraud:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMlVD75RTaw&ab_channel=MeidasTouch

    A summary judgement, that makes wild allegations from the prosecution about the value of his properties, from a judge and a prosecutor elected on a platform of “We’ll Get Trump”.

    They suggest that the 17-acre Mar-a-Lago property is worth $18m, when half an acre with a house on it next door sells for double that amount.

    Zillow - Palm Beach, FL

    You don’t have to like the guy, to think that there’s a co-ordinated effort to tie him up in legalities for the next year.

    This is the sort of sh!t we see in Africa, not what you’d expect in a first world democracy.
    "They" didn't "suggest" the value - Trump agreed the valuation of $18m - to get the benefit of tax breaks!

    This is a civil case. There is discussion on whether this evidence can form the basis of a criminal prosecution (issues around whether statute of limitations apply, complicated by issues of the clock not running the four years he was President).

    But this summary judgement is utterly damning. And cancels the licences needed for the Trump businesses to operate in New York.

    The “taxable value” came from the State’s assessor, not from Trump.

    The accusation is that he declared that as the taxable value, while using the actual value to secure the property against loans, and that the discrepancy amounts to fraud.

    Trying to do politics through the courts, is likely to increase his support rather than diminish it. It’s a seriously worrying development in a first-world democracy.
    Good morning everybody!
    More and more it seems that the United States of America cannot be described as a first world democracy. First world possibly; democracy, highly doubtful.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,137
    viewcode said:

    Fewer than half of trainee GPs go on to work full time for the NHS
    High dropout rate has left health service increasingly reliant on foreign doctors to fill vacancies, report warns

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/09/27/trainee-doctors-full-time-nhs/ (£££)

    Link to the source think tank report:-
    https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/research/waste-not-want-not-strategies-to-improve-the-supply-of-clinical-staff-to-the-nhs

    This. This, this, this. Why are we training British doctors if they won't treat British people? We have built a country that only works by importing more and more people to fill the gaps. We are not a serious country.
    We manage to recruit by reducing barriers to entry, but then the experience in training drops the scales from their eyes and they leave.

    We need to make it desirable for people to remain in the professions of medicine and nursing, and not deceive new recruits.

    Health care professions are amongst the most transferable skills for people wanting to emigrate. That includes both Britons going to Australia, and Egyptians coming here.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,004
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Trump has suffered a massive legal defeat in New York that closes down his businesses for commiting persistent fraud:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMlVD75RTaw&ab_channel=MeidasTouch

    A summary judgement, that makes wild allegations from the prosecution about the value of his properties, from a judge and a prosecutor elected on a platform of “We’ll Get Trump”.

    They suggest that the 17-acre Mar-a-Lago property is worth $18m, when half an acre with a house on it next door sells for double that amount.

    Zillow - Palm Beach, FL

    You don’t have to like the guy, to think that there’s a co-ordinated effort to tie him up in legalities for the next year.

    This is the sort of sh!t we see in Africa, not what you’d expect in a first world democracy.
    "They" didn't "suggest" the value - Trump agreed the valuation of $18m - to get the benefit of tax breaks!

    This is a civil case. There is discussion on whether this evidence can form the basis of a criminal prosecution (issues around whether statute of limitations apply, complicated by issues of the clock not running the four years he was President).

    But this summary judgement is utterly damning. And cancels the licences needed for the Trump businesses to operate in New York.

    The “taxable value” came from the State’s assessor, not from Trump.

    The accusation is that he declared that as the taxable value, while using the actual value to secure the property against loans, and that the discrepancy amounts to fraud.

    Trying to do politics through the courts, is likely to increase his support rather than diminish it. It’s a seriously worrying development in a first-world democracy.
    I look forward to your expressing similar disquiet over the 'impeachment' of Hunter Biden.
    How could Hunter Biden be impeached, when he’s never held elected office? If Burisma wants to pay a drug addict $50k a month for ‘advise’, that’s between their management and their shareholders.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    edited September 2023

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    A geoengineering proposal to address global warming.
    Looks pretty good to me.

    https://nephewjonathan.substack.com/p/diy-geoengineering-the-whitepaper
    ...Global warming, though not ocean acidification, is quickly and cheaply reversed by ejecting calcite nanoparticles (with an average radius in the ~90nm range) into the stratosphere, using a propeller-based system to prevent particle clumping. The particles should be carried up by hydrogen balloons, and very preferably released over the tropics. The total amount needed will be on the order of several hundred kilotons yearly, and the total cost should be somewhere between $1B and $5B yearly.

    Let's go through this piece by piece...


    Even if the cost is out by an order of magnitude, it could easily be funded by (for instance) the EU on its own.

    If it goes wrong, how easily can it be reversed? And who is to judge whether or not it works?
    It's OK, you do it over the tropics so if anything goes wrong it's not us who will be affected. Genius!
    Can you suggest what there is to "go wrong" ?

    Point is that if it works, it works. If it doesn't, it's just a lot of non toxic dust in the atmosphere for a fairly short time. Which happens every time a wind blows across the Sahara.

    The reason did doing it in the tropics is that that's where the effect (as we've seen with what happened with the marine diesel sulphur ban) is most pronounced.
    What can possibly go wrong with reducing the amount of sunlight reaching areas of the world where people rely on it to grow food and are already often food-insecure... Hmm let me think.
    I'm somewhat surprised to see it being suggested it is used over the Tropics. I would have thought that (caveat, it's Putin) using it over the Russian taiga and tundra would stop the release of methane there which is the bigger problem. And over Greenland and Antarctica, to stabilise the ice sheets and stop water levels rising.

    But hey, what do I know.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    On Topic

    The narrowest Labour red wall lead since August 2022 is good news for Labour and Starner!!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,211

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    A geoengineering proposal to address global warming.
    Looks pretty good to me.

    https://nephewjonathan.substack.com/p/diy-geoengineering-the-whitepaper
    ...Global warming, though not ocean acidification, is quickly and cheaply reversed by ejecting calcite nanoparticles (with an average radius in the ~90nm range) into the stratosphere, using a propeller-based system to prevent particle clumping. The particles should be carried up by hydrogen balloons, and very preferably released over the tropics. The total amount needed will be on the order of several hundred kilotons yearly, and the total cost should be somewhere between $1B and $5B yearly.

    Let's go through this piece by piece...


    Even if the cost is out by an order of magnitude, it could easily be funded by (for instance) the EU on its own.

    If it goes wrong, how easily can it be reversed? And who is to judge whether or not it works?
    It's OK, you do it over the tropics so if anything goes wrong it's not us who will be affected. Genius!
    Can you suggest what there is to "go wrong" ?

    Point is that if it works, it works. If it doesn't, it's just a lot of non toxic dust in the atmosphere for a fairly short time. Which happens every time a wind blows across the Sahara.

    The reason did doing it in the tropics is that that's where the effect (as we've seen with what happened with the marine diesel sulphur ban) is most pronounced.
    What can possibly go wrong with reducing the amount of sunlight reaching areas of the world where people rely on it to grow food and are already often food-insecure... Hmm let me think.
    We've already done much the same experiment (unwittingly) while freight shipping was pumping sulphur dioxide aerosol into the atmosphere. Setting aside the ocean acidification resulting (which isn't a thing with this idea) there weren't such effects.

    And in any event, the effects of excessive temperatures on crop growth will be far greater than anything resulting from a small increase in solar energy being reflected back into space.

    If there are possible objections to the experiment, I think this one is pretty feeble.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,137

    On Topic

    The narrowest Labour red wall lead since August 2022 is good news for Labour and Starner!!

    Remind me what Corbyns lead in these seats was....
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,004
    Meanwhile, Brent Crude is trading over $97 on the overnights, as the German Greens threaten to block Typhoon sales to the Saudis.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/09/27/german-greens-block-sales-typhoon-jets-saudi-arabia/
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,363
    O/T but a pleasant change froim other stuff - an English Heritage email has just landed, with, amongst other things, news about the Crystal Palace dinosaurs, and inspirations for LotR (one or two real surprises there).

    https://historicengland.org.uk/whats-new/in-your-area/london/3d-models-crystal-palace-dinosaurs/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&utm_campaign=news

    https://heritagecalling.com/2023/08/31/6-historic-places-that-inspired-tolkiens-middle-earth/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&utm_campaign=brand
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,025
    Looks like Evergrande is back as an issue:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66932548

    The sums involved with that company are so massive that even the Chinese economy is materially affected. This looks like another credit crunch there which will materially impact on investment, growth and demand this winter. Not a good sign for global growth.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    Foxy said:

    On Topic

    The narrowest Labour red wall lead since August 2022 is good news for Labour and Starner!!

    Remind me what Corbyns lead in these seats was....
    In 2017 a bigger than SKS's now

    In 2019 the BREXIT election the Tories won the red wall.

    Hope that is helpful
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,128
    darkage said:

    FPT

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-66934545

    "The ex-partner of a man who suffocated their three-month-old daughter said she feels "let down" and scared to learn of his imminent release.

    Simon Smith killed baby Lauren in 1994 in Staffordshire. An investigation led to the grim discovery he had also murdered his two other children.

    He was convicted of all three murders and jailed for life in 1996.

    Lauren's mother Rachel Playfair said the public would be horrified to know a triple murderer was being released.

    The Parole Board confirmed it had directed the release of Smith on licence following a hearing."

    Unless we lock 'em up and throw away the key, we shall continue to hear these stories whenever a murderer is released or paroled. Some will say life should mean life, or even death.
    For these type of cases it would now be a whole life term if sentenced in the present day.

    Since the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act was passed by this Conservative government last year, premeditated murder of a child means judges must give an automatic whole life term order
    The issue people should consider more this is the cost of 'throwing away the key'. If you aren't going to execute the prisoner, you have to accept that they have some rights, IE the right not to be murdered or assaulted by another inmate. They need to be fed etc. The cost is I believe about £47,000 per prisoner per year in the UK, but higher in very high security prisons. Even if you got rid of human rights and have poor conditions with jails like in the USA, the cost does not reduce that much (it is something like $40,000 per prisoner per year at federal level).

    The actual number of those who anyone would consider need locking up for life is tiny.

    Contrary to the Daily Mail and Twatter, the number of murders is small and the number of multiple murders tiny.

    If we simply locked up for life everyone guilt if more than one murder or murdering a child, the cost would be a tiny, almost invisible pimple on the arse of the budget.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,641
    edited September 2023

    darkage said:

    FPT

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-66934545

    "The ex-partner of a man who suffocated their three-month-old daughter said she feels "let down" and scared to learn of his imminent release.

    Simon Smith killed baby Lauren in 1994 in Staffordshire. An investigation led to the grim discovery he had also murdered his two other children.

    He was convicted of all three murders and jailed for life in 1996.

    Lauren's mother Rachel Playfair said the public would be horrified to know a triple murderer was being released.

    The Parole Board confirmed it had directed the release of Smith on licence following a hearing."

    Unless we lock 'em up and throw away the key, we shall continue to hear these stories whenever a murderer is released or paroled. Some will say life should mean life, or even death.
    For these type of cases it would now be a whole life term if sentenced in the present day.

    Since the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act was passed by this Conservative government last year, premeditated murder of a child means judges must give an automatic whole life term order
    The issue people should consider more this is the cost of 'throwing away the key'. If you aren't going to execute the prisoner, you have to accept that they have some rights, IE the right not to be murdered or assaulted by another inmate. They need to be fed etc. The cost is I believe about £47,000 per prisoner per year in the UK, but higher in very high security prisons. Even if you got rid of human rights and have poor conditions with jails like in the USA, the cost does not reduce that much (it is something like $40,000 per prisoner per year at federal level).

    Maybe we should send them all to private school instead?
    On which point, it seems Starmer may agree with me and you:

    "Labour drops plan to strip public schools of charitable status"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66942985
    Let's all agree that Labour has adopted a sensible compromise that raises money to fund education for the majority without being unnecessarily punitive on this persecuted minority.
    Good morning

    Our son works in this sector and it is clear that the likes of Eton and other elite schools will see little effect as the wealthy will pay it, but there are many more less elite schools who are at risk of losing so many students they may well close with the loss of many jobs, a problem for local state schools having to admit more students, and the loss to the community of a facility that provides bursaries to the poorest and charitable work to and in the community

    I do not want to argue over this, but I am seeing it first hand and it is going to affect those fairly normal families who sacrifice considerably to provide their children with the education they want them to have

    Furthermore, it will not raise anything like the expected income and is likely to face legal challenges from the sector

    So no, I do not accept labour have adopted a sensible compromise as the 20% VAT charge and possibly the cancellation of gift aid will have a detrimental effect on the sector as I have outlined and an adverse effect for their communities and add to the numbers moving to state schools
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,479
    IFS report on inheritance tax and how you could reform it: https://x.com/arunadvaniecon/status/1706817780627218785
  • darkage said:

    FPT

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-66934545

    "The ex-partner of a man who suffocated their three-month-old daughter said she feels "let down" and scared to learn of his imminent release.

    Simon Smith killed baby Lauren in 1994 in Staffordshire. An investigation led to the grim discovery he had also murdered his two other children.

    He was convicted of all three murders and jailed for life in 1996.

    Lauren's mother Rachel Playfair said the public would be horrified to know a triple murderer was being released.

    The Parole Board confirmed it had directed the release of Smith on licence following a hearing."

    Unless we lock 'em up and throw away the key, we shall continue to hear these stories whenever a murderer is released or paroled. Some will say life should mean life, or even death.
    For these type of cases it would now be a whole life term if sentenced in the present day.

    Since the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act was passed by this Conservative government last year, premeditated murder of a child means judges must give an automatic whole life term order
    The issue people should consider more this is the cost of 'throwing away the key'. If you aren't going to execute the prisoner, you have to accept that they have some rights, IE the right not to be murdered or assaulted by another inmate. They need to be fed etc. The cost is I believe about £47,000 per prisoner per year in the UK, but higher in very high security prisons. Even if you got rid of human rights and have poor conditions with jails like in the USA, the cost does not reduce that much (it is something like $40,000 per prisoner per year at federal level).

    Maybe we should send them all to private school instead?
    On which point, it seems Starmer may agree with me and you:

    "Labour drops plan to strip public schools of charitable status"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66942985
    Well, now, that's confusing.

    They can't strip the charitable status because it would require redefining what a "charity" is - as a few of us have pointed out - but they still plan to press ahead with charging VAT on school fees regardless.

    That would require a complex change on VAT exemptions for education in the law, which would mean it also potentially hits private tuition and private nursery fees as well. Anything else wouldn't necessarily hold up in the courts.

    Labour have got themselves into a right mess on this and are clearly worried about this opening up a flank to the Liberal Democrats and Conservatives in some of their target seats.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,211
    edited September 2023
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Trump has suffered a massive legal defeat in New York that closes down his businesses for commiting persistent fraud:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMlVD75RTaw&ab_channel=MeidasTouch

    A summary judgement, that makes wild allegations from the prosecution about the value of his properties, from a judge and a prosecutor elected on a platform of “We’ll Get Trump”.

    They suggest that the 17-acre Mar-a-Lago property is worth $18m, when half an acre with a house on it next door sells for double that amount.

    Zillow - Palm Beach, FL

    You don’t have to like the guy, to think that there’s a co-ordinated effort to tie him up in legalities for the next year.

    This is the sort of sh!t we see in Africa, not what you’d expect in a first world democracy.
    "They" didn't "suggest" the value - Trump agreed the valuation of $18m - to get the benefit of tax breaks!

    This is a civil case. There is discussion on whether this evidence can form the basis of a criminal prosecution (issues around whether statute of limitations apply, complicated by issues of the clock not running the four years he was President).

    But this summary judgement is utterly damning. And cancels the licences needed for the Trump businesses to operate in New York.

    The “taxable value” came from the State’s assessor, not from Trump.

    The accusation is that he declared that as the taxable value, while using the actual value to secure the property against loans, and that the discrepancy amounts to fraud.

    Trying to do politics through the courts, is likely to increase his support rather than diminish it. It’s a seriously worrying development in a first-world democracy.
    I look forward to your expressing similar disquiet over the 'impeachment' of Hunter Biden.
    How could Hunter Biden be impeached, when he’s never held elected office? If Burisma wants to pay a drug addict $50k a month for ‘advise’, that’s between their management and their shareholders.
    Good question.
    That is what the GOP Congress is currently doing.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    darkage said:

    FPT

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-66934545

    "The ex-partner of a man who suffocated their three-month-old daughter said she feels "let down" and scared to learn of his imminent release.

    Simon Smith killed baby Lauren in 1994 in Staffordshire. An investigation led to the grim discovery he had also murdered his two other children.

    He was convicted of all three murders and jailed for life in 1996.

    Lauren's mother Rachel Playfair said the public would be horrified to know a triple murderer was being released.

    The Parole Board confirmed it had directed the release of Smith on licence following a hearing."

    Unless we lock 'em up and throw away the key, we shall continue to hear these stories whenever a murderer is released or paroled. Some will say life should mean life, or even death.
    For these type of cases it would now be a whole life term if sentenced in the present day.

    Since the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act was passed by this Conservative government last year, premeditated murder of a child means judges must give an automatic whole life term order
    The issue people should consider more this is the cost of 'throwing away the key'. If you aren't going to execute the prisoner, you have to accept that they have some rights, IE the right not to be murdered or assaulted by another inmate. They need to be fed etc. The cost is I believe about £47,000 per prisoner per year in the UK, but higher in very high security prisons. Even if you got rid of human rights and have poor conditions with jails like in the USA, the cost does not reduce that much (it is something like $40,000 per prisoner per year at federal level).

    Maybe we should send them all to private school instead?
    That's how you learn to get away with crime, I guess!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,363
    Also O/T on the history front - fascinating crime maps (also to see how the towns looked at the relevant times)

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2023/sep/28/medieval-murder-maps-of-three-english-cities-london-oxford-york

    Oxford undergrads definitely a bunch of thugs, sex offenders, etc. etc.

    https://medievalmurdermap.co.uk/maps/oxford/?t=["homicide"]
  • darkage said:

    FPT

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-66934545

    "The ex-partner of a man who suffocated their three-month-old daughter said she feels "let down" and scared to learn of his imminent release.

    Simon Smith killed baby Lauren in 1994 in Staffordshire. An investigation led to the grim discovery he had also murdered his two other children.

    He was convicted of all three murders and jailed for life in 1996.

    Lauren's mother Rachel Playfair said the public would be horrified to know a triple murderer was being released.

    The Parole Board confirmed it had directed the release of Smith on licence following a hearing."

    Unless we lock 'em up and throw away the key, we shall continue to hear these stories whenever a murderer is released or paroled. Some will say life should mean life, or even death.
    For these type of cases it would now be a whole life term if sentenced in the present day.

    Since the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act was passed by this Conservative government last year, premeditated murder of a child means judges must give an automatic whole life term order
    The issue people should consider more this is the cost of 'throwing away the key'. If you aren't going to execute the prisoner, you have to accept that they have some rights, IE the right not to be murdered or assaulted by another inmate. They need to be fed etc. The cost is I believe about £47,000 per prisoner per year in the UK, but higher in very high security prisons. Even if you got rid of human rights and have poor conditions with jails like in the USA, the cost does not reduce that much (it is something like $40,000 per prisoner per year at federal level).

    Maybe we should send them all to private school instead?
    On which point, it seems Starmer may agree with me and you:

    "Labour drops plan to strip public schools of charitable status"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66942985
    Let's all agree that Labour has adopted a sensible compromise that raises money to fund education for the majority without being unnecessarily punitive on this persecuted minority.
    Good morning

    Our son works in this sector and it is clear that the likes of Eton and other elite schools will see little effect as the wealthy will pay it, but there are many more less elite schools who are at risk of losing so many students they may well close with the loss of many jobs, a problem for local state schools having to admit more students, and the loss to the community of a facility that provides bursaries to the poorest and charitable work to and in the community

    I do not want to argue over this, but I am seeing it first hand and it is going to affect those fairly normal families who sacrifice considerably to provide their children with the education they want them to have

    Furthermore, it will not raise anything like the expected income and is likely to face legal challenges from the sector

    So no, I do not accept labour have adopted a sensible compromise as the 20% VAT charge and possibly the cancellation of gift aid will have a detrimental effect on the sector as I have outlined and an adverse effect for their communities and add to the numbers moving to state schools
    The IFS have run the numbers and say it will raise a material amount of money, which will help to improve things for the 93% of children who attend state schools. If we're going to trade personal anecdotes, my three children are all at state schools - our local primary, our local secondary and a Sixth form college - and they are crying out for more money, while the party you support so loyally is cutting real terms funding per pupil - so thanks for harming their life chances every day with your support for the Tories.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,128

    Fewer than half of trainee GPs go on to work full time for the NHS
    High dropout rate has left health service increasingly reliant on foreign doctors to fill vacancies, report warns

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/09/27/trainee-doctors-full-time-nhs/ (£££)

    Link to the source think tank report:-
    https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/research/waste-not-want-not-strategies-to-improve-the-supply-of-clinical-staff-to-the-nhs

    Every analysis of work and why people stay in jobs, comes to the conclusion that salary is just a part of it. A big part, but not the deciding factor, for many.

    NHS employment practises and organisation resembles those of the 1970s U.K. car industry. Incompetent and pointless strife everywhere.

    When other car companies came to the U.K. in the 80s, they achieved harmony, productivity and a satisfied workforce. All the while, in the legacy industry, the same old nonsense staggered on. And this was with the same pool of workers and management - most of the people working in the new industry were from the old.

    An organisation is a machine to help humans achieve things en masse. Ergonomics, anyone?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,004
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Trump has suffered a massive legal defeat in New York that closes down his businesses for commiting persistent fraud:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMlVD75RTaw&ab_channel=MeidasTouch

    A summary judgement, that makes wild allegations from the prosecution about the value of his properties, from a judge and a prosecutor elected on a platform of “We’ll Get Trump”.

    They suggest that the 17-acre Mar-a-Lago property is worth $18m, when half an acre with a house on it next door sells for double that amount.

    Zillow - Palm Beach, FL

    You don’t have to like the guy, to think that there’s a co-ordinated effort to tie him up in legalities for the next year.

    This is the sort of sh!t we see in Africa, not what you’d expect in a first world democracy.
    "They" didn't "suggest" the value - Trump agreed the valuation of $18m - to get the benefit of tax breaks!

    This is a civil case. There is discussion on whether this evidence can form the basis of a criminal prosecution (issues around whether statute of limitations apply, complicated by issues of the clock not running the four years he was President).

    But this summary judgement is utterly damning. And cancels the licences needed for the Trump businesses to operate in New York.

    The “taxable value” came from the State’s assessor, not from Trump.

    The accusation is that he declared that as the taxable value, while using the actual value to secure the property against loans, and that the discrepancy amounts to fraud.

    Trying to do politics through the courts, is likely to increase his support rather than diminish it. It’s a seriously worrying development in a first-world democracy.
    I look forward to your expressing similar disquiet over the 'impeachment' of Hunter Biden.
    How could Hunter Biden be impeached, when he’s never held elected office? If Burisma wants to pay a drug addict $50k a month for ‘advise’, that’s between their management and their shareholders.
    Good question.
    That is what the GOP Congress is currently doing.
    Nope, they’re looking to impeach Joe Biden for what he did as vice-president, tying Ukrainian aid to the firing of the prosecutor who was investigating Burisma.

    Here is the charge, in Joe Biden’s own words:

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=VG0nAT9xOHk

    You may recall, that this exactly the same issue for which the Democrats impeached Trump.
  • Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    A geoengineering proposal to address global warming.
    Looks pretty good to me.

    https://nephewjonathan.substack.com/p/diy-geoengineering-the-whitepaper
    ...Global warming, though not ocean acidification, is quickly and cheaply reversed by ejecting calcite nanoparticles (with an average radius in the ~90nm range) into the stratosphere, using a propeller-based system to prevent particle clumping. The particles should be carried up by hydrogen balloons, and very preferably released over the tropics. The total amount needed will be on the order of several hundred kilotons yearly, and the total cost should be somewhere between $1B and $5B yearly.

    Let's go through this piece by piece...


    Even if the cost is out by an order of magnitude, it could easily be funded by (for instance) the EU on its own.

    If it goes wrong, how easily can it be reversed? And who is to judge whether or not it works?
    It's OK, you do it over the tropics so if anything goes wrong it's not us who will be affected. Genius!
    Can you suggest what there is to "go wrong" ?

    Point is that if it works, it works. If it doesn't, it's just a lot of non toxic dust in the atmosphere for a fairly short time. Which happens every time a wind blows across the Sahara.

    The reason did doing it in the tropics is that that's where the effect (as we've seen with what happened with the marine diesel sulphur ban) is most pronounced.
    What can possibly go wrong with reducing the amount of sunlight reaching areas of the world where people rely on it to grow food and are already often food-insecure... Hmm let me think.
    We've already done much the same experiment (unwittingly) while freight shipping was pumping sulphur dioxide aerosol into the atmosphere. Setting aside the ocean acidification resulting (which isn't a thing with this idea) there weren't such effects.

    And in any event, the effects of excessive temperatures on crop growth will be far greater than anything resulting from a small increase in solar energy being reflected back into space.

    If there are possible objections to the experiment, I think this one is pretty feeble.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_Without_a_Summer

    Seems a bit risky to me. Why not just decarbonise our economy instead of creating additional potential risks for the poorest people in the world, who have played almost no role in creating this problem.
  • nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    Leon said:

    nico679 said:

    I see no 10 are now resorting to threatening the ECHR .

    Yes of course we can trust the Tories to enshrine our rights ! With the Mary Poppins of today Braverman we surely will be basking in more rights than ever before ! Whats to fear !!!

    In their scorched earth policy security co-operation with the EU goes , the Good Friday Agreement is breached and the UK ends up in the company of Russia and Belarus .

    What sort of message does leaving the ECHR send to the rest of the world and other European countries especially at this time .

    It says: We are now Sovereign, and, usefully, Fuck Off You Left Lawyer Wankers


    The EHCR is bullshit we do not need. THIS IS ENGLAND
    So you trust the Tories with your rights . You
    really are deluded .
    Surely as a democrat you need to put your faith in the electorate?

    Relying on a foreign body to overrule the votes of the British electorate… hmmh…
    Another who is missing the point . The whole point of the ECHR is to protect citizens from their own government, it has to be a Supra national organization.

    And where exactly is it over ruling votes . Did the Tories have the Stop the boats in their last election manifesto in 2019. If they want to leave the ECHR they should put it to a referendum then .

    What a naïve and ridiculous comment.

    The rest of the world manages just fine without supranational courts. Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Japan, plenty of democracies around the planet rely upon sovereign national Supreme Courts and the rule of law that way.

    The ECHR is a failure. Until last year it maintained Russia as a full sovereign member of the Court and the Convention. Russia wasn't removed because it was a one party dictatorship that has no free press, no free elections, routinely murders its civilians both domestically and abroad. No, Russia was only removed because it invaded Ukraine.

    Relying upon the ECHR to protect your rights is like relying upon healing crystals to cure cancer.

    The only way to ensure your rights are protected, as we've done for hundreds of years, is to fight for them, fight to maintain them, and ensure them in Parliament. And to vote accordingly, and campaign accordingly.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,557
    Carnyx said:

    Also O/T on the history front - fascinating crime maps (also to see how the towns looked at the relevant times)

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2023/sep/28/medieval-murder-maps-of-three-english-cities-london-oxford-york

    Oxford undergrads definitely a bunch of thugs, sex offenders, etc. etc.

    https://medievalmurdermap.co.uk/maps/oxford/?t=["homicide"]

    Was literally about to post the same when I saw your post. It looks really interesting and “fun”. Will be listening to their podcast when I have time later.
  • darkage said:

    FPT

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-66934545

    "The ex-partner of a man who suffocated their three-month-old daughter said she feels "let down" and scared to learn of his imminent release.

    Simon Smith killed baby Lauren in 1994 in Staffordshire. An investigation led to the grim discovery he had also murdered his two other children.

    He was convicted of all three murders and jailed for life in 1996.

    Lauren's mother Rachel Playfair said the public would be horrified to know a triple murderer was being released.

    The Parole Board confirmed it had directed the release of Smith on licence following a hearing."

    Unless we lock 'em up and throw away the key, we shall continue to hear these stories whenever a murderer is released or paroled. Some will say life should mean life, or even death.
    For these type of cases it would now be a whole life term if sentenced in the present day.

    Since the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act was passed by this Conservative government last year, premeditated murder of a child means judges must give an automatic whole life term order
    The issue people should consider more this is the cost of 'throwing away the key'. If you aren't going to execute the prisoner, you have to accept that they have some rights, IE the right not to be murdered or assaulted by another inmate. They need to be fed etc. The cost is I believe about £47,000 per prisoner per year in the UK, but higher in very high security prisons. Even if you got rid of human rights and have poor conditions with jails like in the USA, the cost does not reduce that much (it is something like $40,000 per prisoner per year at federal level).

    Maybe we should send them all to private school instead?
    On which point, it seems Starmer may agree with me and you:

    "Labour drops plan to strip public schools of charitable status"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66942985
    Let's all agree that Labour has adopted a sensible compromise that raises money to fund education for the majority without being unnecessarily punitive on this persecuted minority.
    Good morning

    Our son works in this sector and it is clear that the likes of Eton and other elite schools will see little effect as the wealthy will pay it, but there are many more less elite schools who are at risk of losing so many students they may well close with the loss of many jobs, a problem for local state schools having to admit more students, and the loss to the community of a facility that provides bursaries to the poorest and charitable work to and in the community

    I do not want to argue over this, but I am seeing it first hand and it is going to affect those fairly normal families who sacrifice considerably to provide their children with the education they want them to have

    Furthermore, it will not raise anything like the expected income and is likely to face legal challenges from the sector

    So no, I do not accept labour have adopted a sensible compromise as the 20% VAT charge and possibly the cancellation of gift aid will have a detrimental effect on the sector as I have outlined and an adverse effect for their communities and add to the numbers moving to state schools

    Schools could absorb the VAT charge by charging lower fees. They could do what all state schools have been asked to do by successive Conservative governments - spend less.

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,712
    Carnyx said:

    Also O/T on the history front - fascinating crime maps (also to see how the towns looked at the relevant times)

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2023/sep/28/medieval-murder-maps-of-three-english-cities-london-oxford-york

    Oxford undergrads definitely a bunch of thugs, sex offenders, etc. etc.

    https://medievalmurdermap.co.uk/maps/oxford/?t=["homicide"]

    The piece also refers to quite vicious hostility between students from the south, and those from the north of the Humber!
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,479

    Fewer than half of trainee GPs go on to work full time for the NHS
    High dropout rate has left health service increasingly reliant on foreign doctors to fill vacancies, report warns

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/09/27/trainee-doctors-full-time-nhs/ (£££)

    Link to the source think tank report:-
    https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/research/waste-not-want-not-strategies-to-improve-the-supply-of-clinical-staff-to-the-nhs

    The Telegraph’s reporting is confusing there. The source given doesn’t mention GPs: it’s all about nurses and allied health professionals.

    This Guardian article explains part of what’s happening with GPs: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/sep/18/two-thirds-of-trainee-gps-in-england-plan-to-work-part-time-study-finds Lots of GPs work what is notionally a bit less than full-time, but because of workload pressures, their actual hours are the equivalent of a full-time job.
  • darkage said:

    FPT

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-66934545

    "The ex-partner of a man who suffocated their three-month-old daughter said she feels "let down" and scared to learn of his imminent release.

    Simon Smith killed baby Lauren in 1994 in Staffordshire. An investigation led to the grim discovery he had also murdered his two other children.

    He was convicted of all three murders and jailed for life in 1996.

    Lauren's mother Rachel Playfair said the public would be horrified to know a triple murderer was being released.

    The Parole Board confirmed it had directed the release of Smith on licence following a hearing."

    Unless we lock 'em up and throw away the key, we shall continue to hear these stories whenever a murderer is released or paroled. Some will say life should mean life, or even death.
    For these type of cases it would now be a whole life term if sentenced in the present day.

    Since the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act was passed by this Conservative government last year, premeditated murder of a child means judges must give an automatic whole life term order
    The issue people should consider more this is the cost of 'throwing away the key'. If you aren't going to execute the prisoner, you have to accept that they have some rights, IE the right not to be murdered or assaulted by another inmate. They need to be fed etc. The cost is I believe about £47,000 per prisoner per year in the UK, but higher in very high security prisons. Even if you got rid of human rights and have poor conditions with jails like in the USA, the cost does not reduce that much (it is something like $40,000 per prisoner per year at federal level).

    Maybe we should send them all to private school instead?
    On which point, it seems Starmer may agree with me and you:

    "Labour drops plan to strip public schools of charitable status"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66942985
    Let's all agree that Labour has adopted a sensible compromise that raises money to fund education for the majority without being unnecessarily punitive on this persecuted minority.
    Good morning

    Our son works in this sector and it is clear that the likes of Eton and other elite schools will see little effect as the wealthy will pay it, but there are many more less elite schools who are at risk of losing so many students they may well close with the loss of many jobs, a problem for local state schools having to admit more students, and the loss to the community of a facility that provides bursaries to the poorest and charitable work to and in the community

    I do not want to argue over this, but I am seeing it first hand and it is going to affect those fairly normal families who sacrifice considerably to provide their children with the education they want them to have

    Furthermore, it will not raise anything like the expected income and is likely to face legal challenges from the sector

    So no, I do not accept labour have adopted a sensible compromise as the 20% VAT charge and possibly the cancellation of gift aid will have a detrimental effect on the sector as I have outlined and an adverse effect for their communities and add to the numbers moving to state schools
    It really isn't normal families. Even amongst high income families, it's a very small minority.

    The proportion of children attending private school is close to zero across the vast majority of the income distribution, and doesn’t rise above 10% of the cohort except among those with the top 5% of incomes. Only half of those in the top 1% send their kids to private school


    https://blogs.ucl.ac.uk/ioe/2021/02/08/housing-wealth-not-bursaries-explains-much-of-private-school-participation-for-those-without-high-income/

    It doesn't make the policy right or wrong, but normal families, even normal professional families, stopped being able to afford private schools out of salaries long ago.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,128
    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Also O/T on the history front - fascinating crime maps (also to see how the towns looked at the relevant times)

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2023/sep/28/medieval-murder-maps-of-three-english-cities-london-oxford-york

    Oxford undergrads definitely a bunch of thugs, sex offenders, etc. etc.

    https://medievalmurdermap.co.uk/maps/oxford/?t=["homicide"]

    Was literally about to post the same when I saw your post. It looks really interesting and “fun”. Will be listening to their podcast when I have time later.
    Worth remembering that clerics (which was often extended to anyone literate) could claim Benefit of The Clergy. Virtual immunity from the law combined with student behaviour….
  • darkage said:

    FPT

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-66934545

    "The ex-partner of a man who suffocated their three-month-old daughter said she feels "let down" and scared to learn of his imminent release.

    Simon Smith killed baby Lauren in 1994 in Staffordshire. An investigation led to the grim discovery he had also murdered his two other children.

    He was convicted of all three murders and jailed for life in 1996.

    Lauren's mother Rachel Playfair said the public would be horrified to know a triple murderer was being released.

    The Parole Board confirmed it had directed the release of Smith on licence following a hearing."

    Unless we lock 'em up and throw away the key, we shall continue to hear these stories whenever a murderer is released or paroled. Some will say life should mean life, or even death.
    For these type of cases it would now be a whole life term if sentenced in the present day.

    Since the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act was passed by this Conservative government last year, premeditated murder of a child means judges must give an automatic whole life term order
    The issue people should consider more this is the cost of 'throwing away the key'. If you aren't going to execute the prisoner, you have to accept that they have some rights, IE the right not to be murdered or assaulted by another inmate. They need to be fed etc. The cost is I believe about £47,000 per prisoner per year in the UK, but higher in very high security prisons. Even if you got rid of human rights and have poor conditions with jails like in the USA, the cost does not reduce that much (it is something like $40,000 per prisoner per year at federal level).

    Maybe we should send them all to private school instead?
    On which point, it seems Starmer may agree with me and you:

    "Labour drops plan to strip public schools of charitable status"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66942985
    Let's all agree that Labour has adopted a sensible compromise that raises money to fund education for the majority without being unnecessarily punitive on this persecuted minority.
    Good morning

    Our son works in this sector and it is clear that the likes of Eton and other elite schools will see little effect as the wealthy will pay it, but there are many more less elite schools who are at risk of losing so many students they may well close with the loss of many jobs, a problem for local state schools having to admit more students, and the loss to the community of a facility that provides bursaries to the poorest and charitable work to and in the community

    I do not want to argue over this, but I am seeing it first hand and it is going to affect those fairly normal families who sacrifice considerably to provide their children with the education they want them to have

    Furthermore, it will not raise anything like the expected income and is likely to face legal challenges from the sector

    So no, I do not accept labour have adopted a sensible compromise as the 20% VAT charge and possibly the cancellation of gift aid will have a detrimental effect on the sector as I have outlined and an adverse effect for their communities and add to the numbers moving to state schools
    It really isn't normal families. Even amongst high income families, it's a very small minority.

    The proportion of children attending private school is close to zero across the vast majority of the income distribution, and doesn’t rise above 10% of the cohort except among those with the top 5% of incomes. Only half of those in the top 1% send their kids to private school


    https://blogs.ucl.ac.uk/ioe/2021/02/08/housing-wealth-not-bursaries-explains-much-of-private-school-participation-for-those-without-high-income/

    It doesn't make the policy right or wrong, but normal families, even normal professional families, stopped being able to afford private schools out of salaries long ago.
    Normal for pb.com? Normalish for Tory members?
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 22,375
    edited September 2023
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Trump has suffered a massive legal defeat in New York that closes down his businesses for commiting persistent fraud:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMlVD75RTaw&ab_channel=MeidasTouch

    A summary judgement, that makes wild allegations from the prosecution about the value of his properties, from a judge and a prosecutor elected on a platform of “We’ll Get Trump”.

    They suggest that the 17-acre Mar-a-Lago property is worth $18m, when half an acre with a house on it next door sells for double that amount.

    Zillow - Palm Beach, FL

    You don’t have to like the guy, to think that there’s a co-ordinated effort to tie him up in legalities for the next year.

    This is the sort of sh!t we see in Africa, not what you’d expect in a first world democracy.
    "They" didn't "suggest" the value - Trump agreed the valuation of $18m - to get the benefit of tax breaks!

    This is a civil case. There is discussion on whether this evidence can form the basis of a criminal prosecution (issues around whether statute of limitations apply, complicated by issues of the clock not running the four years he was President).

    But this summary judgement is utterly damning. And cancels the licences needed for the Trump businesses to operate in New York.

    The “taxable value” came from the State’s assessor, not from Trump.

    The accusation is that he declared that as the taxable value, while using the actual value to secure the property against loans, and that the discrepancy amounts to fraud.

    Trying to do politics through the courts, is likely to increase his support rather than diminish it. It’s a seriously worrying development in a first-world democracy.
    I look forward to your expressing similar disquiet over the 'impeachment' of Hunter Biden.
    How could Hunter Biden be impeached, when he’s never held elected office? If Burisma wants to pay a drug addict $50k a month for ‘advise’, that’s between their management and their shareholders.
    Good question.
    That is what the GOP Congress is currently doing.
    Nope, they’re looking to impeach Joe Biden for what he did as vice-president, tying Ukrainian aid to the firing of the prosecutor who was investigating Burisma.

    Here is the charge, in Joe Biden’s own words:

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=VG0nAT9xOHk

    You may recall, that this exactly the same issue for which the Democrats impeached Trump.
    Except its not true.

    The Prosecutor was not investigating Burisma, and was corrupt and the US and allies (including European countries and the IMF) were united in trying to remove him as part of an anti-corruption drive.

    Which is why Biden said that, on the record, publicly, in that clip you shared and it was not something that was done in the shadows like Trump trying to coerce a malicious agenda.

    This was all covered years ago:
    https://www.congress.gov/116/meeting/house/110331/documents/HMKP-116-JU00-20191211-SD440.pdf
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,363

    darkage said:

    FPT

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-66934545

    "The ex-partner of a man who suffocated their three-month-old daughter said she feels "let down" and scared to learn of his imminent release.

    Simon Smith killed baby Lauren in 1994 in Staffordshire. An investigation led to the grim discovery he had also murdered his two other children.

    He was convicted of all three murders and jailed for life in 1996.

    Lauren's mother Rachel Playfair said the public would be horrified to know a triple murderer was being released.

    The Parole Board confirmed it had directed the release of Smith on licence following a hearing."

    Unless we lock 'em up and throw away the key, we shall continue to hear these stories whenever a murderer is released or paroled. Some will say life should mean life, or even death.
    For these type of cases it would now be a whole life term if sentenced in the present day.

    Since the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act was passed by this Conservative government last year, premeditated murder of a child means judges must give an automatic whole life term order
    The issue people should consider more this is the cost of 'throwing away the key'. If you aren't going to execute the prisoner, you have to accept that they have some rights, IE the right not to be murdered or assaulted by another inmate. They need to be fed etc. The cost is I believe about £47,000 per prisoner per year in the UK, but higher in very high security prisons. Even if you got rid of human rights and have poor conditions with jails like in the USA, the cost does not reduce that much (it is something like $40,000 per prisoner per year at federal level).

    Maybe we should send them all to private school instead?
    On which point, it seems Starmer may agree with me and you:

    "Labour drops plan to strip public schools of charitable status"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66942985
    Let's all agree that Labour has adopted a sensible compromise that raises money to fund education for the majority without being unnecessarily punitive on this persecuted minority.
    Good morning

    Our son works in this sector and it is clear that the likes of Eton and other elite schools will see little effect as the wealthy will pay it, but there are many more less elite schools who are at risk of losing so many students they may well close with the loss of many jobs, a problem for local state schools having to admit more students, and the loss to the community of a facility that provides bursaries to the poorest and charitable work to and in the community

    I do not want to argue over this, but I am seeing it first hand and it is going to affect those fairly normal families who sacrifice considerably to provide their children with the education they want them to have

    Furthermore, it will not raise anything like the expected income and is likely to face legal challenges from the sector

    So no, I do not accept labour have adopted a sensible compromise as the 20% VAT charge and possibly the cancellation of gift aid will have a detrimental effect on the sector as I have outlined and an adverse effect for their communities and add to the numbers moving to state schools
    It really isn't normal families. Even amongst high income families, it's a very small minority.

    The proportion of children attending private school is close to zero across the vast majority of the income distribution, and doesn’t rise above 10% of the cohort except among those with the top 5% of incomes. Only half of those in the top 1% send their kids to private school


    https://blogs.ucl.ac.uk/ioe/2021/02/08/housing-wealth-not-bursaries-explains-much-of-private-school-participation-for-those-without-high-income/

    It doesn't make the policy right or wrong, but normal families, even normal professional families, stopped being able to afford private schools out of salaries long ago.
    Quite so. Friend of mine (London high flyer) sent his children to the same Headmasters' Conference "public" school as he attended in the 1970s. Then, it was full of normal professional families - children of accountants and farmers, and the like. Now, vastly shifted to the financial elite and a very high percentage of students from overseas.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,568

    viewcode said:

    Fewer than half of trainee GPs go on to work full time for the NHS
    High dropout rate has left health service increasingly reliant on foreign doctors to fill vacancies, report warns

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/09/27/trainee-doctors-full-time-nhs/ (£££)

    Link to the source think tank report:-
    https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/research/waste-not-want-not-strategies-to-improve-the-supply-of-clinical-staff-to-the-nhs

    This. This, this, this. Why are we training British doctors if they won't treat British people? We have built a country that only works by importing more and more people to fill the gaps. We are not a serious country.
    Isn't the issue that many GPs conclude that they don't want to work full time for a lifetime, because they feel it will lead to burnout?

    And that, for many of them, their family finances work fine with less than FT work?

    It's a tricky one. There are people who can be motivated into working unhealthy combinations of hours and pressure by absurd amounts of money. See the racier bits of the financial and legal professions. But a lot of people just aren't wired that way. Good thing too, or we wouldn't have any suburban science masters.

    Good people cost what they cost, but that cost is a triad of pay, hours and working conditions. We hear a lot about the first, but one of the reasons for that is that we've let the second and third slip for many people. A lot of PT work in the professions is all about people being unhappy about hours or stress levels.
    Yes - a first world problem is that some people have actually done quite well through a mixture of luck, hard work and sometimes inheritance or connections, and there comes a point when they can afford to retire and consider whether the work is fun and healthy enough to keep going anyway. In a minor key that's my own situation - I've been doing 3 jobs for years, and have a reasonably comfortable situation, so I recently decided to cut back radically and to retire from two of them in a year or two and have fun (cf. Leon on the last thread) - e.g. do lots of canvassing in by-elections :). I'm old anyway (73) but I think some much younger people are coming to the same conclusion. It's something that's not much discussed and feels almost wrong to discuss since so many people are struggling, but it's a problem that governments need to bear in mind - people in high-stress environments will quit if they can.
  • nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    Leon said:

    nico679 said:

    I see no 10 are now resorting to threatening the ECHR .

    Yes of course we can trust the Tories to enshrine our rights ! With the Mary Poppins of today Braverman we surely will be basking in more rights than ever before ! Whats to fear !!!

    In their scorched earth policy security co-operation with the EU goes , the Good Friday Agreement is breached and the UK ends up in the company of Russia and Belarus .

    What sort of message does leaving the ECHR send to the rest of the world and other European countries especially at this time .

    It says: We are now Sovereign, and, usefully, Fuck Off You Left Lawyer Wankers


    The EHCR is bullshit we do not need. THIS IS ENGLAND
    So you trust the Tories with your rights . You
    really are deluded .
    Surely as a democrat you need to put your faith in the electorate?

    Relying on a foreign body to overrule the votes of the British electorate… hmmh…
    Another who is missing the point . The whole point of the ECHR is to protect citizens from their own government, it has to be a Supra national organization.

    And where exactly is it over ruling votes . Did the Tories have the Stop the boats in their last election manifesto in 2019. If they want to leave the ECHR they should put it to a referendum then .

    What a naïve and ridiculous comment.

    The rest of the world manages just fine without supranational courts. Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Japan, plenty of democracies around the planet rely upon sovereign national Supreme Courts and the rule of law that way.

    The ECHR is a failure. Until last year it maintained Russia as a full sovereign member of the Court and the Convention. Russia wasn't removed because it was a one party dictatorship that has no free press, no free elections, routinely murders its civilians both domestically and abroad. No, Russia was only removed because it invaded Ukraine.

    Relying upon the ECHR to protect your rights is like relying upon healing crystals to cure cancer.

    The only way to ensure your rights are protected, as we've done for hundreds of years, is to fight for them, fight to maintain them, and ensure them in Parliament. And to vote accordingly, and campaign accordingly.

    A full separation of powers, that is constitutionally watertight, has to be a pre-requisite. And human rights are human rights, they do not depend on nationality, so we need to be very clear about the difference between the rights of UK citizens and the rights of all people. Basically, we need the system in place and ready to go on the day of withdrawal. There can be no gap. Otherwise, it will not be Parliament deciding what rights we have. It will be Suella Braverman.

  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,955
    edited September 2023

    darkage said:

    FPT

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-66934545

    "The ex-partner of a man who suffocated their three-month-old daughter said she feels "let down" and scared to learn of his imminent release.

    Simon Smith killed baby Lauren in 1994 in Staffordshire. An investigation led to the grim discovery he had also murdered his two other children.

    He was convicted of all three murders and jailed for life in 1996.

    Lauren's mother Rachel Playfair said the public would be horrified to know a triple murderer was being released.

    The Parole Board confirmed it had directed the release of Smith on licence following a hearing."

    Unless we lock 'em up and throw away the key, we shall continue to hear these stories whenever a murderer is released or paroled. Some will say life should mean life, or even death.
    For these type of cases it would now be a whole life term if sentenced in the present day.

    Since the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act was passed by this Conservative government last year, premeditated murder of a child means judges must give an automatic whole life term order
    The issue people should consider more this is the cost of 'throwing away the key'. If you aren't going to execute the prisoner, you have to accept that they have some rights, IE the right not to be murdered or assaulted by another inmate. They need to be fed etc. The cost is I believe about £47,000 per prisoner per year in the UK, but higher in very high security prisons. Even if you got rid of human rights and have poor conditions with jails like in the USA, the cost does not reduce that much (it is something like $40,000 per prisoner per year at federal level).

    Maybe we should send them all to private school instead?
    On which point, it seems Starmer may agree with me and you:

    "Labour drops plan to strip public schools of charitable status"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66942985
    Let's all agree that Labour has adopted a sensible compromise that raises money to fund education for the majority without being unnecessarily punitive on this persecuted minority.
    Good morning

    Our son works in this sector and it is clear that the likes of Eton and other elite schools will see little effect as the wealthy will pay it, but there are many more less elite schools who are at risk of losing so many students they may well close with the loss of many jobs, a problem for local state schools having to admit more students, and the loss to the community of a facility that provides bursaries to the poorest and charitable work to and in the community

    I do not want to argue over this, but I am seeing it first hand and it is going to affect those fairly normal families who sacrifice considerably to provide their children with the education they want them to have

    Furthermore, it will not raise anything like the expected income and is likely to face legal challenges from the sector

    So no, I do not accept labour have adopted a sensible compromise as the 20% VAT charge and possibly the cancellation of gift aid will have a detrimental effect on the sector as I have outlined and an adverse effect for their communities and add to the numbers moving to state schools
    "I do not want to argue over this"

    I'm sure PBers will respect this request.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,363

    viewcode said:

    Fewer than half of trainee GPs go on to work full time for the NHS
    High dropout rate has left health service increasingly reliant on foreign doctors to fill vacancies, report warns

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/09/27/trainee-doctors-full-time-nhs/ (£££)

    Link to the source think tank report:-
    https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/research/waste-not-want-not-strategies-to-improve-the-supply-of-clinical-staff-to-the-nhs

    This. This, this, this. Why are we training British doctors if they won't treat British people? We have built a country that only works by importing more and more people to fill the gaps. We are not a serious country.
    Isn't the issue that many GPs conclude that they don't want to work full time for a lifetime, because they feel it will lead to burnout?

    And that, for many of them, their family finances work fine with less than FT work?

    It's a tricky one. There are people who can be motivated into working unhealthy combinations of hours and pressure by absurd amounts of money. See the racier bits of the financial and legal professions. But a lot of people just aren't wired that way. Good thing too, or we wouldn't have any suburban science masters.

    Good people cost what they cost, but that cost is a triad of pay, hours and working conditions. We hear a lot about the first, but one of the reasons for that is that we've let the second and third slip for many people. A lot of PT work in the professions is all about people being unhappy about hours or stress levels.
    Yes - a first world problem is that some people have actually done quite well through a mixture of luck, hard work and sometimes inheritance or connections, and there comes a point when they can afford to retire and consider whether the work is fun and healthy enough to keep going anyway. In a minor key that's my own situation - I've been doing 3 jobs for years, and have a reasonably comfortable situation, so I recently decided to cut back radically and to retire from two of them in a year or two and have fun (cf. Leon on the last thread) - e.g. do lots of canvassing in by-elections :). I'm old anyway (73) but I think some much younger people are coming to the same conclusion. It's something that's not much discussed and feels almost wrong to discuss since so many people are struggling, but it's a problem that governments need to bear in mind - people in high-stress environments will quit if they can.
    Of course, an oldie gearing down or retiring means more jobs for younger people.

    Also: this was in the Graun. Some folk very much a case of wanting to *live* longer, never mind enjoy it!

    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2023/sep/27/over-50s-on-switching-to-part-time-work
  • darkage said:

    FPT

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-66934545

    "The ex-partner of a man who suffocated their three-month-old daughter said she feels "let down" and scared to learn of his imminent release.

    Simon Smith killed baby Lauren in 1994 in Staffordshire. An investigation led to the grim discovery he had also murdered his two other children.

    He was convicted of all three murders and jailed for life in 1996.

    Lauren's mother Rachel Playfair said the public would be horrified to know a triple murderer was being released.

    The Parole Board confirmed it had directed the release of Smith on licence following a hearing."

    Unless we lock 'em up and throw away the key, we shall continue to hear these stories whenever a murderer is released or paroled. Some will say life should mean life, or even death.
    For these type of cases it would now be a whole life term if sentenced in the present day.

    Since the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act was passed by this Conservative government last year, premeditated murder of a child means judges must give an automatic whole life term order
    The issue people should consider more this is the cost of 'throwing away the key'. If you aren't going to execute the prisoner, you have to accept that they have some rights, IE the right not to be murdered or assaulted by another inmate. They need to be fed etc. The cost is I believe about £47,000 per prisoner per year in the UK, but higher in very high security prisons. Even if you got rid of human rights and have poor conditions with jails like in the USA, the cost does not reduce that much (it is something like $40,000 per prisoner per year at federal level).

    Maybe we should send them all to private school instead?
    On which point, it seems Starmer may agree with me and you:

    "Labour drops plan to strip public schools of charitable status"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66942985
    Let's all agree that Labour has adopted a sensible compromise that raises money to fund education for the majority without being unnecessarily punitive on this persecuted minority.
    Good morning

    Our son works in this sector and it is clear that the likes of Eton and other elite schools will see little effect as the wealthy will pay it, but there are many more less elite schools who are at risk of losing so many students they may well close with the loss of many jobs, a problem for local state schools having to admit more students, and the loss to the community of a facility that provides bursaries to the poorest and charitable work to and in the community

    I do not want to argue over this, but I am seeing it first hand and it is going to affect those fairly normal families who sacrifice considerably to provide their children with the education they want them to have

    Furthermore, it will not raise anything like the expected income and is likely to face legal challenges from the sector

    So no, I do not accept labour have adopted a sensible compromise as the 20% VAT charge and possibly the cancellation of gift aid will have a detrimental effect on the sector as I have outlined and an adverse effect for their communities and add to the numbers moving to state schools
    It really isn't normal families. Even amongst high income families, it's a very small minority.

    The proportion of children attending private school is close to zero across the vast majority of the income distribution, and doesn’t rise above 10% of the cohort except among those with the top 5% of incomes. Only half of those in the top 1% send their kids to private school


    https://blogs.ucl.ac.uk/ioe/2021/02/08/housing-wealth-not-bursaries-explains-much-of-private-school-participation-for-those-without-high-income/

    It doesn't make the policy right or wrong, but normal families, even normal professional families, stopped being able to afford private schools out of salaries long ago.
    Normal for pb.com? Normalish for Tory members?
    I meet for drinks and food every so often with a bunch of other finance sector folk. They are all inside the 0.1%. I am the only one with kids at state school.
  • nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    Leon said:

    nico679 said:

    I see no 10 are now resorting to threatening the ECHR .

    Yes of course we can trust the Tories to enshrine our rights ! With the Mary Poppins of today Braverman we surely will be basking in more rights than ever before ! Whats to fear !!!

    In their scorched earth policy security co-operation with the EU goes , the Good Friday Agreement is breached and the UK ends up in the company of Russia and Belarus .

    What sort of message does leaving the ECHR send to the rest of the world and other European countries especially at this time .

    It says: We are now Sovereign, and, usefully, Fuck Off You Left Lawyer Wankers


    The EHCR is bullshit we do not need. THIS IS ENGLAND
    So you trust the Tories with your rights . You
    really are deluded .
    Surely as a democrat you need to put your faith in the electorate?

    Relying on a foreign body to overrule the votes of the British electorate… hmmh…
    Another who is missing the point . The whole point of the ECHR is to protect citizens from their own government, it has to be a Supra national organization.

    And where exactly is it over ruling votes . Did the Tories have the Stop the boats in their last election manifesto in 2019. If they want to leave the ECHR they should put it to a referendum then .

    What a naïve and ridiculous comment.

    The rest of the world manages just fine without supranational courts. Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Japan, plenty of democracies around the planet rely upon sovereign national Supreme Courts and the rule of law that way.

    The ECHR is a failure. Until last year it maintained Russia as a full sovereign member of the Court and the Convention. Russia wasn't removed because it was a one party dictatorship that has no free press, no free elections, routinely murders its civilians both domestically and abroad. No, Russia was only removed because it invaded Ukraine.

    Relying upon the ECHR to protect your rights is like relying upon healing crystals to cure cancer.

    The only way to ensure your rights are protected, as we've done for hundreds of years, is to fight for them, fight to maintain them, and ensure them in Parliament. And to vote accordingly, and campaign accordingly.

    A full separation of powers, that is constitutionally watertight, has to be a pre-requisite. And human rights are human rights, they do not depend on nationality, so we need to be very clear about the difference between the rights of UK citizens and the rights of all people. Basically, we need the system in place and ready to go on the day of withdrawal. There can be no gap. Otherwise, it will not be Parliament deciding what rights we have. It will be Suella Braverman.

    No, it does not have to be a pre-requisite. A full separation of powers is impossible, because quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

    America supposedly had a full separation of powers, so under that full separation is abortion protected under the Constitution or not?

    Instead of becoming a matter of law, it means there's been a tug of war over who controls the courts and getting your own people to dominate the courts and rule in your favour. Rather than separating powers, that corrupts them.

    The Westminster system has a stronger track record on maintaining human rights than almost any other country on the planet.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,025

    Fewer than half of trainee GPs go on to work full time for the NHS
    High dropout rate has left health service increasingly reliant on foreign doctors to fill vacancies, report warns

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/09/27/trainee-doctors-full-time-nhs/ (£££)

    Link to the source think tank report:-
    https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/research/waste-not-want-not-strategies-to-improve-the-supply-of-clinical-staff-to-the-nhs

    The Telegraph’s reporting is confusing there. The source given doesn’t mention GPs: it’s all about nurses and allied health professionals.

    This Guardian article explains part of what’s happening with GPs: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/sep/18/two-thirds-of-trainee-gps-in-england-plan-to-work-part-time-study-finds Lots of GPs work what is notionally a bit less than full-time, but because of workload pressures, their actual hours are the equivalent of a full-time job.
    Is there not a gender issue here? Anecdotally, I have read several times that the problem is largely young, female doctors who choose to go part time in their child bearing years and that the relative over performance of girls academically meant that they were increasing their proportion of the cohort for what remains a very competitive course.

    The problem for the government is that it costs us so much to subsidise the training of a doctor that it becomes an issue if so many of them either do not practise in the NHS at all or only do so on a part time basis.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,479
    Sandpit said:

    Trump has suffered a massive legal defeat in New York that closes down his businesses for commiting persistent fraud:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMlVD75RTaw&ab_channel=MeidasTouch

    A summary judgement, that makes wild allegations from the prosecution about the value of his properties, from a judge and a prosecutor elected on a platform of “We’ll Get Trump”.

    They suggest that the 17-acre Mar-a-Lago property is worth $18m, when half an acre with a house on it next door sells for double that amount.

    Zillow - Palm Beach, FL

    You don’t have to like the guy, to think that there’s a co-ordinated effort to tie him up in legalities for the next year.

    This is the sort of sh!t we see in Africa, not what you’d expect in a first world democracy.
    The wild allegations are those made by the Trumps as to property valuations. The judgement details numerous cases where property value estimations flat out lied. It’s not the most readable of judgements, but you can find numerous cases in it where valuations were many times higher than was plausible, where square footage figures were wrong, where limitations on property were ignored, where the proposed uplift of the Trump name was double counted, and so on. The defence case was risible, arguing that everyone knows valuations are worthless pieces of information, so it doesn’t matter what they say.

    Trump doesn’t keep losing court cases because there’s a co-ordinated effort to get him. He keeps losing court cases because he’s a serial liar.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    Eabhal said:

    darkage said:

    FPT

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-66934545

    "The ex-partner of a man who suffocated their three-month-old daughter said she feels "let down" and scared to learn of his imminent release.

    Simon Smith killed baby Lauren in 1994 in Staffordshire. An investigation led to the grim discovery he had also murdered his two other children.

    He was convicted of all three murders and jailed for life in 1996.

    Lauren's mother Rachel Playfair said the public would be horrified to know a triple murderer was being released.

    The Parole Board confirmed it had directed the release of Smith on licence following a hearing."

    Unless we lock 'em up and throw away the key, we shall continue to hear these stories whenever a murderer is released or paroled. Some will say life should mean life, or even death.
    For these type of cases it would now be a whole life term if sentenced in the present day.

    Since the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act was passed by this Conservative government last year, premeditated murder of a child means judges must give an automatic whole life term order
    The issue people should consider more this is the cost of 'throwing away the key'. If you aren't going to execute the prisoner, you have to accept that they have some rights, IE the right not to be murdered or assaulted by another inmate. They need to be fed etc. The cost is I believe about £47,000 per prisoner per year in the UK, but higher in very high security prisons. Even if you got rid of human rights and have poor conditions with jails like in the USA, the cost does not reduce that much (it is something like $40,000 per prisoner per year at federal level).

    Maybe we should send them all to private school instead?
    On which point, it seems Starmer may agree with me and you:

    "Labour drops plan to strip public schools of charitable status"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66942985
    Let's all agree that Labour has adopted a sensible compromise that raises money to fund education for the majority without being unnecessarily punitive on this persecuted minority.
    Good morning

    Our son works in this sector and it is clear that the likes of Eton and other elite schools will see little effect as the wealthy will pay it, but there are many more less elite schools who are at risk of losing so many students they may well close with the loss of many jobs, a problem for local state schools having to admit more students, and the loss to the community of a facility that provides bursaries to the poorest and charitable work to and in the community

    I do not want to argue over this, but I am seeing it first hand and it is going to affect those fairly normal families who sacrifice considerably to provide their children with the education they want them to have

    Furthermore, it will not raise anything like the expected income and is likely to face legal challenges from the sector

    So no, I do not accept labour have adopted a sensible compromise as the 20% VAT charge and possibly the cancellation of gift aid will have a detrimental effect on the sector as I have outlined and an adverse effect for their communities and add to the numbers moving to state schools
    "I do not want to argue over this"

    I'm sure PBers will respect this request.
    None of us here argue.

    We just enlighten the uninformed....
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,363
    edited September 2023

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Also O/T on the history front - fascinating crime maps (also to see how the towns looked at the relevant times)

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2023/sep/28/medieval-murder-maps-of-three-english-cities-london-oxford-york

    Oxford undergrads definitely a bunch of thugs, sex offenders, etc. etc.

    https://medievalmurdermap.co.uk/maps/oxford/?t=["homicide"]

    Was literally about to post the same when I saw your post. It looks really interesting and “fun”. Will be listening to their podcast when I have time later.
    Worth remembering that clerics (which was often extended to anyone literate) could claim Benefit of The Clergy. Virtual immunity from the law combined with student behaviour….
    Must still have been in existence in Oxford in the 1980s from what I recall of visiting my friends there. All those dining, sorry prayer, groups. It must have been a group of trainee clerics who trashed that restaurant at the time - in Thame, wasn't it? - though ISTR that the choir who had fun in the very nice pub at Fyfield got a shock when they got to court and discovered that b of the c had been cancelled.
  • nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    Leon said:

    nico679 said:

    I see no 10 are now resorting to threatening the ECHR .

    Yes of course we can trust the Tories to enshrine our rights ! With the Mary Poppins of today Braverman we surely will be basking in more rights than ever before ! Whats to fear !!!

    In their scorched earth policy security co-operation with the EU goes , the Good Friday Agreement is breached and the UK ends up in the company of Russia and Belarus .

    What sort of message does leaving the ECHR send to the rest of the world and other European countries especially at this time .

    It says: We are now Sovereign, and, usefully, Fuck Off You Left Lawyer Wankers


    The EHCR is bullshit we do not need. THIS IS ENGLAND
    So you trust the Tories with your rights . You
    really are deluded .
    Surely as a democrat you need to put your faith in the electorate?

    Relying on a foreign body to overrule the votes of the British electorate… hmmh…
    Another who is missing the point . The whole point of the ECHR is to protect citizens from their own government, it has to be a Supra national organization.

    And where exactly is it over ruling votes . Did the Tories have the Stop the boats in their last election manifesto in 2019. If they want to leave the ECHR they should put it to a referendum then .

    What a naïve and ridiculous comment.

    The rest of the world manages just fine without supranational courts. Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Japan, plenty of democracies around the planet rely upon sovereign national Supreme Courts and the rule of law that way.

    The ECHR is a failure. Until last year it maintained Russia as a full sovereign member of the Court and the Convention. Russia wasn't removed because it was a one party dictatorship that has no free press, no free elections, routinely murders its civilians both domestically and abroad. No, Russia was only removed because it invaded Ukraine.

    Relying upon the ECHR to protect your rights is like relying upon healing crystals to cure cancer.

    The only way to ensure your rights are protected, as we've done for hundreds of years, is to fight for them, fight to maintain them, and ensure them in Parliament. And to vote accordingly, and campaign accordingly.

    A full separation of powers, that is constitutionally watertight, has to be a pre-requisite. And human rights are human rights, they do not depend on nationality, so we need to be very clear about the difference between the rights of UK citizens and the rights of all people. Basically, we need the system in place and ready to go on the day of withdrawal. There can be no gap. Otherwise, it will not be Parliament deciding what rights we have. It will be Suella Braverman.

    No, it does not have to be a pre-requisite. A full separation of powers is impossible, because quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

    America supposedly had a full separation of powers, so under that full separation is abortion protected under the Constitution or not?

    Instead of becoming a matter of law, it means there's been a tug of war over who controls the courts and getting your own people to dominate the courts and rule in your favour. Rather than separating powers, that corrupts them.

    The Westminster system has a stronger track record on maintaining human rights than almost any other country on the planet.

    Yes, with the ECHR as an integral part of that system.

    The US is a federation. The UK is not. There is no obligation to import the US system to the our country.

    You accuse others of naivety, but are prepared to trust your human rights to Suella Braverman!!!



  • Fewer than half of trainee GPs go on to work full time for the NHS
    High dropout rate has left health service increasingly reliant on foreign doctors to fill vacancies, report warns

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/09/27/trainee-doctors-full-time-nhs/ (£££)

    Link to the source think tank report:-
    https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/research/waste-not-want-not-strategies-to-improve-the-supply-of-clinical-staff-to-the-nhs

    The Telegraph’s reporting is confusing there. The source given doesn’t mention GPs: it’s all about nurses and allied health professionals.

    This Guardian article explains part of what’s happening with GPs: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/sep/18/two-thirds-of-trainee-gps-in-england-plan-to-work-part-time-study-finds Lots of GPs work what is notionally a bit less than full-time, but because of workload pressures, their actual hours are the equivalent of a full-time job.
    Where does "work less than full time but do higher pay contract work on the side to get the pay rise the government doesnt want to give" fit in the full time vs part time categorisation. I suspect this is a sizeable group.
  • darkage said:

    FPT

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-66934545

    "The ex-partner of a man who suffocated their three-month-old daughter said she feels "let down" and scared to learn of his imminent release.

    Simon Smith killed baby Lauren in 1994 in Staffordshire. An investigation led to the grim discovery he had also murdered his two other children.

    He was convicted of all three murders and jailed for life in 1996.

    Lauren's mother Rachel Playfair said the public would be horrified to know a triple murderer was being released.

    The Parole Board confirmed it had directed the release of Smith on licence following a hearing."

    Unless we lock 'em up and throw away the key, we shall continue to hear these stories whenever a murderer is released or paroled. Some will say life should mean life, or even death.
    For these type of cases it would now be a whole life term if sentenced in the present day.

    Since the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act was passed by this Conservative government last year, premeditated murder of a child means judges must give an automatic whole life term order
    The issue people should consider more this is the cost of 'throwing away the key'. If you aren't going to execute the prisoner, you have to accept that they have some rights, IE the right not to be murdered or assaulted by another inmate. They need to be fed etc. The cost is I believe about £47,000 per prisoner per year in the UK, but higher in very high security prisons. Even if you got rid of human rights and have poor conditions with jails like in the USA, the cost does not reduce that much (it is something like $40,000 per prisoner per year at federal level).

    Maybe we should send them all to private school instead?
    On which point, it seems Starmer may agree with me and you:

    "Labour drops plan to strip public schools of charitable status"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66942985
    Let's all agree that Labour has adopted a sensible compromise that raises money to fund education for the majority without being unnecessarily punitive on this persecuted minority.
    Good morning

    Our son works in this sector and it is clear that the likes of Eton and other elite schools will see little effect as the wealthy will pay it, but there are many more less elite schools who are at risk of losing so many students they may well close with the loss of many jobs, a problem for local state schools having to admit more students, and the loss to the community of a facility that provides bursaries to the poorest and charitable work to and in the community

    I do not want to argue over this, but I am seeing it first hand and it is going to affect those fairly normal families who sacrifice considerably to provide their children with the education they want them to have

    Furthermore, it will not raise anything like the expected income and is likely to face legal challenges from the sector

    So no, I do not accept labour have adopted a sensible compromise as the 20% VAT charge and possibly the cancellation of gift aid will have a detrimental effect on the sector as I have outlined and an adverse effect for their communities and add to the numbers moving to state schools
    The IFS have run the numbers and say it will raise a material amount of money, which will help to improve things for the 93% of children who attend state schools. If we're going to trade personal anecdotes, my three children are all at state schools - our local primary, our local secondary and a Sixth form college - and they are crying out for more money, while the party you support so loyally is cutting real terms funding per pupil - so thanks for harming their life chances every day with your support for the Tories.
    You need to see what is happening to our grandchildren education here in Wales which is the responsibility of Welsh Labour government, and I simply do not accept for the reasons I have stated the net income to Labour will be anywhere near the figures quoted and may be negative

    As an example of the support the school provides to the community they allow him all the time he needs to fulfil his duties as RNLI crew including attending shouts, extensive time in training and indeed for the three days he has been away in Poole this week at RNLI training headquarters

  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,479
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Trump has suffered a massive legal defeat in New York that closes down his businesses for commiting persistent fraud:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMlVD75RTaw&ab_channel=MeidasTouch

    A summary judgement, that makes wild allegations from the prosecution about the value of his properties, from a judge and a prosecutor elected on a platform of “We’ll Get Trump”.

    They suggest that the 17-acre Mar-a-Lago property is worth $18m, when half an acre with a house on it next door sells for double that amount.

    Zillow - Palm Beach, FL

    You don’t have to like the guy, to think that there’s a co-ordinated effort to tie him up in legalities for the next year.

    This is the sort of sh!t we see in Africa, not what you’d expect in a first world democracy.
    "They" didn't "suggest" the value - Trump agreed the valuation of $18m - to get the benefit of tax breaks!

    This is a civil case. There is discussion on whether this evidence can form the basis of a criminal prosecution (issues around whether statute of limitations apply, complicated by issues of the clock not running the four years he was President).

    But this summary judgement is utterly damning. And cancels the licences needed for the Trump businesses to operate in New York.

    The “taxable value” came from the State’s assessor, not from Trump.

    The accusation is that he declared that as the taxable value, while using the actual value to secure the property against loans, and that the discrepancy amounts to fraud.

    Trying to do politics through the courts, is likely to increase his support rather than diminish it. It’s a seriously worrying development in a first-world democracy.
    Have you read the judgement? It contains numerous examples of fraud. This is, of course, the same person who was done for fraud around the Trump charity and around Trump University.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    A geoengineering proposal to address global warming.
    Looks pretty good to me.

    https://nephewjonathan.substack.com/p/diy-geoengineering-the-whitepaper
    ...Global warming, though not ocean acidification, is quickly and cheaply reversed by ejecting calcite nanoparticles (with an average radius in the ~90nm range) into the stratosphere, using a propeller-based system to prevent particle clumping. The particles should be carried up by hydrogen balloons, and very preferably released over the tropics. The total amount needed will be on the order of several hundred kilotons yearly, and the total cost should be somewhere between $1B and $5B yearly.

    Let's go through this piece by piece...


    Even if the cost is out by an order of magnitude, it could easily be funded by (for instance) the EU on its own.

    If it goes wrong, how easily can it be reversed? And who is to judge whether or not it works?
    It's OK, you do it over the tropics so if anything goes wrong it's not us who will be affected. Genius!
    Can you suggest what there is to "go wrong" ?

    Point is that if it works, it works. If it doesn't, it's just a lot of non toxic dust in the atmosphere for a fairly short time. Which happens every time a wind blows across the Sahara.

    The reason did doing it in the tropics is that that's where the effect (as we've seen with what happened with the marine diesel sulphur ban) is most pronounced.
    What can possibly go wrong with reducing the amount of sunlight reaching areas of the world where people rely on it to grow food and are already often food-insecure... Hmm let me think.
    I'm somewhat surprised to see it being suggested it is used over the Tropics. I would have thought that (caveat, it's Putin) using it over the Russian taiga and tundra would stop the release of methane there which is the bigger problem. And over Greenland and Antarctica, to stabilise the ice sheets and stop water levels rising.

    But hey, what do I know.
    Injecting aerosols into the tropical stratosphere has a far bigger impact on global temperatures than doing it in mid latitudes. In the tropics the stratosphere is higher, more stable (less likely to be pulled down and rained out); it allows aerosols to be dispersed globally over both hemispheres. Inject into the tropics and within a few months you have global coverage. Inject over mid or high latitudes and it remains in those latitudes. Insolation is highest in the tropics too, so the impact on radiation balance of the earth is much greater. That’s why tropical volcanoes like pinatubo and el chichon had a far greater impact on global temperature than high latitude ones.

    The trouble with geo-engineering is a political and moral one. Climate change through CO2 is attributable to humans, but not to an individual company or agency, or even directly to a country. So people may die in floods or heatwaves but there’s nobody you can realistically sue or prosecute. Geo engineering is a deliberate action that can be traced to a single body or country. Any global change had regional impacts - it would likely reduce overall global rainfall and cause quite directly attributable droughts and crop failures. The affected country, especially if it didn’t sign up to the experiment in the first place, will have a stronger legal recourse. Or if it doesn’t, the farmers will have recourse to their country.

    It’s not necessarily true that aerosol injection would have wildly unpredictable results. It can be modelled quite accurately including on a regional scale. Famously after Pinatubo James Hansen at NASA accurately predicted to within a tenth of a degree the cooling impact and duration. And modelling is better now. But that’s also a problem because the losers from any action would know ahead who they are, and would quite reasonably resist it.

    So getting someone to press the button seems tricky.


  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,128
    Carnyx said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Also O/T on the history front - fascinating crime maps (also to see how the towns looked at the relevant times)

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2023/sep/28/medieval-murder-maps-of-three-english-cities-london-oxford-york

    Oxford undergrads definitely a bunch of thugs, sex offenders, etc. etc.

    https://medievalmurdermap.co.uk/maps/oxford/?t=["homicide"]

    Was literally about to post the same when I saw your post. It looks really interesting and “fun”. Will be listening to their podcast when I have time later.
    Worth remembering that clerics (which was often extended to anyone literate) could claim Benefit of The Clergy. Virtual immunity from the law combined with student behaviour….
    Must still have been in existence in Oxford in the 1980s from what I recall of visiting my friends there. All those dining, sorry prayer, groups. It must have been a group of trainee clerics who trashed that restaurant at the time - in Thame, wasn't it? - though ISTR that the choir who had fun in the very nice pub at Fyfield got a shock when they got to court and discovered that b of the c had been cancelled.
    When I helped run the student Union at my uni, I was roundly condemned for suggesting we needed additional security for when the women’s rugby team won a big match. Said security was standard for when the men’s team won.

    I went home for the night to avoid the inevitable. The bill for damage reached 5 figures and there were a number of assaults and other crimes.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,363

    darkage said:

    FPT

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-66934545

    "The ex-partner of a man who suffocated their three-month-old daughter said she feels "let down" and scared to learn of his imminent release.

    Simon Smith killed baby Lauren in 1994 in Staffordshire. An investigation led to the grim discovery he had also murdered his two other children.

    He was convicted of all three murders and jailed for life in 1996.

    Lauren's mother Rachel Playfair said the public would be horrified to know a triple murderer was being released.

    The Parole Board confirmed it had directed the release of Smith on licence following a hearing."

    Unless we lock 'em up and throw away the key, we shall continue to hear these stories whenever a murderer is released or paroled. Some will say life should mean life, or even death.
    For these type of cases it would now be a whole life term if sentenced in the present day.

    Since the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act was passed by this Conservative government last year, premeditated murder of a child means judges must give an automatic whole life term order
    The issue people should consider more this is the cost of 'throwing away the key'. If you aren't going to execute the prisoner, you have to accept that they have some rights, IE the right not to be murdered or assaulted by another inmate. They need to be fed etc. The cost is I believe about £47,000 per prisoner per year in the UK, but higher in very high security prisons. Even if you got rid of human rights and have poor conditions with jails like in the USA, the cost does not reduce that much (it is something like $40,000 per prisoner per year at federal level).

    Maybe we should send them all to private school instead?
    On which point, it seems Starmer may agree with me and you:

    "Labour drops plan to strip public schools of charitable status"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66942985
    Let's all agree that Labour has adopted a sensible compromise that raises money to fund education for the majority without being unnecessarily punitive on this persecuted minority.
    Good morning

    Our son works in this sector and it is clear that the likes of Eton and other elite schools will see little effect as the wealthy will pay it, but there are many more less elite schools who are at risk of losing so many students they may well close with the loss of many jobs, a problem for local state schools having to admit more students, and the loss to the community of a facility that provides bursaries to the poorest and charitable work to and in the community

    I do not want to argue over this, but I am seeing it first hand and it is going to affect those fairly normal families who sacrifice considerably to provide their children with the education they want them to have

    Furthermore, it will not raise anything like the expected income and is likely to face legal challenges from the sector

    So no, I do not accept labour have adopted a sensible compromise as the 20% VAT charge and possibly the cancellation of gift aid will have a detrimental effect on the sector as I have outlined and an adverse effect for their communities and add to the numbers moving to state schools
    The IFS have run the numbers and say it will raise a material amount of money, which will help to improve things for the 93% of children who attend state schools. If we're going to trade personal anecdotes, my three children are all at state schools - our local primary, our local secondary and a Sixth form college - and they are crying out for more money, while the party you support so loyally is cutting real terms funding per pupil - so thanks for harming their life chances every day with your support for the Tories.
    You need to see what is happening to our grandchildren education here in Wales which is the responsibility of Welsh Labour government, and I simply do not accept for the reasons I have stated the net income to Labour will be anywhere near the figures quoted and may be negative

    As an example of the support the school provides to the community they allow him all the time he needs to fulfil his duties as RNLI crew including attending shouts, extensive time in training and indeed for the three days he has been away in Poole this week at RNLI training headquarters

    But that's true of many businesses. And - crucially - that is not relevant to education. So it does nothing at all to counter the damage to education more generally.

    But I forget: you don't want to discuss or argue the matter. Kindly therefore ignore this.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,363
    How does the Sun know? They haven't even got any trains yet, never mind run them in rainbow colour schemes.
  • Who dares whines.

    Can't be arsed with all the SAS guff but this is pretty good.

    https://x.com/The_TUC/status/1707004871877013735?s=20
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214
    Woke? Or broke?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,128

    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    Leon said:

    nico679 said:

    I see no 10 are now resorting to threatening the ECHR .

    Yes of course we can trust the Tories to enshrine our rights ! With the Mary Poppins of today Braverman we surely will be basking in more rights than ever before ! Whats to fear !!!

    In their scorched earth policy security co-operation with the EU goes , the Good Friday Agreement is breached and the UK ends up in the company of Russia and Belarus .

    What sort of message does leaving the ECHR send to the rest of the world and other European countries especially at this time .

    It says: We are now Sovereign, and, usefully, Fuck Off You Left Lawyer Wankers


    The EHCR is bullshit we do not need. THIS IS ENGLAND
    So you trust the Tories with your rights . You
    really are deluded .
    Surely as a democrat you need to put your faith in the electorate?

    Relying on a foreign body to overrule the votes of the British electorate… hmmh…
    Another who is missing the point . The whole point of the ECHR is to protect citizens from their own government, it has to be a Supra national organization.

    And where exactly is it over ruling votes . Did the Tories have the Stop the boats in their last election manifesto in 2019. If they want to leave the ECHR they should put it to a referendum then .

    What a naïve and ridiculous comment.

    The rest of the world manages just fine without supranational courts. Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Japan, plenty of democracies around the planet rely upon sovereign national Supreme Courts and the rule of law that way.

    The ECHR is a failure. Until last year it maintained Russia as a full sovereign member of the Court and the Convention. Russia wasn't removed because it was a one party dictatorship that has no free press, no free elections, routinely murders its civilians both domestically and abroad. No, Russia was only removed because it invaded Ukraine.

    Relying upon the ECHR to protect your rights is like relying upon healing crystals to cure cancer.

    The only way to ensure your rights are protected, as we've done for hundreds of years, is to fight for them, fight to maintain them, and ensure them in Parliament. And to vote accordingly, and campaign accordingly.

    A full separation of powers, that is constitutionally watertight, has to be a pre-requisite. And human rights are human rights, they do not depend on nationality, so we need to be very clear about the difference between the rights of UK citizens and the rights of all people. Basically, we need the system in place and ready to go on the day of withdrawal. There can be no gap. Otherwise, it will not be Parliament deciding what rights we have. It will be Suella Braverman.

    No, it does not have to be a pre-requisite. A full separation of powers is impossible, because quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

    America supposedly had a full separation of powers, so under that full separation is abortion protected under the Constitution or not?

    Instead of becoming a matter of law, it means there's been a tug of war over who controls the courts and getting your own people to dominate the courts and rule in your favour. Rather than separating powers, that corrupts them.

    The Westminster system has a stronger track record on maintaining human rights than almost any other country on the planet.
    It’s the not thinking by the Braverman types that gets me.

    The ECHR would be awesome for their way of thinking - they just need to pack the court. Mind you, it took the loony Republicans many
    decades to work that one out in the US.

    Wonder if Orban and chums can read history?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,479

    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    Leon said:

    nico679 said:

    I see no 10 are now resorting to threatening the ECHR .

    Yes of course we can trust the Tories to enshrine our rights ! With the Mary Poppins of today Braverman we surely will be basking in more rights than ever before ! Whats to fear !!!

    In their scorched earth policy security co-operation with the EU goes , the Good Friday Agreement is breached and the UK ends up in the company of Russia and Belarus .

    What sort of message does leaving the ECHR send to the rest of the world and other European countries especially at this time .

    It says: We are now Sovereign, and, usefully, Fuck Off You Left Lawyer Wankers


    The EHCR is bullshit we do not need. THIS IS ENGLAND
    So you trust the Tories with your rights . You
    really are deluded .
    Surely as a democrat you need to put your faith in the electorate?

    Relying on a foreign body to overrule the votes of the British electorate… hmmh…
    Another who is missing the point . The whole point of the ECHR is to protect citizens from their own government, it has to be a Supra national organization.

    And where exactly is it over ruling votes . Did the Tories have the Stop the boats in their last election manifesto in 2019. If they want to leave the ECHR they should put it to a referendum then .

    What a naïve and ridiculous comment.

    The rest of the world manages just fine without supranational courts. Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Japan, plenty of democracies around the planet rely upon sovereign national Supreme Courts and the rule of law that way.

    The ECHR is a failure. Until last year it maintained Russia as a full sovereign member of the Court and the Convention. Russia wasn't removed because it was a one party dictatorship that has no free press, no free elections, routinely murders its civilians both domestically and abroad. No, Russia was only removed because it invaded Ukraine.

    Relying upon the ECHR to protect your rights is like relying upon healing crystals to cure cancer.

    The only way to ensure your rights are protected, as we've done for hundreds of years, is to fight for them, fight to maintain them, and ensure them in Parliament. And to vote accordingly, and campaign accordingly.

    A full separation of powers, that is constitutionally watertight, has to be a pre-requisite. And human rights are human rights, they do not depend on nationality, so we need to be very clear about the difference between the rights of UK citizens and the rights of all people. Basically, we need the system in place and ready to go on the day of withdrawal. There can be no gap. Otherwise, it will not be Parliament deciding what rights we have. It will be Suella Braverman.

    No, it does not have to be a pre-requisite. A full separation of powers is impossible, because quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

    America supposedly had a full separation of powers, so under that full separation is abortion protected under the Constitution or not?

    Instead of becoming a matter of law, it means there's been a tug of war over who controls the courts and getting your own people to dominate the courts and rule in your favour. Rather than separating powers, that corrupts them.

    The Westminster system has a stronger track record on maintaining human rights than almost any other country on the planet.

    Yes, with the ECHR as an integral part of that system.

    The US is a federation. The UK is not. There is no obligation to import the US system to the our country.

    You accuse others of naivety, but are prepared to trust your human rights to Suella Braverman!!!
    Also, Australia, Canada, NZ and Japan *do* sign up to some supranational judicial decision making as they’re in the WTO.
  • Carnyx said:

    darkage said:

    FPT

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-66934545

    "The ex-partner of a man who suffocated their three-month-old daughter said she feels "let down" and scared to learn of his imminent release.

    Simon Smith killed baby Lauren in 1994 in Staffordshire. An investigation led to the grim discovery he had also murdered his two other children.

    He was convicted of all three murders and jailed for life in 1996.

    Lauren's mother Rachel Playfair said the public would be horrified to know a triple murderer was being released.

    The Parole Board confirmed it had directed the release of Smith on licence following a hearing."

    Unless we lock 'em up and throw away the key, we shall continue to hear these stories whenever a murderer is released or paroled. Some will say life should mean life, or even death.
    For these type of cases it would now be a whole life term if sentenced in the present day.

    Since the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act was passed by this Conservative government last year, premeditated murder of a child means judges must give an automatic whole life term order
    The issue people should consider more this is the cost of 'throwing away the key'. If you aren't going to execute the prisoner, you have to accept that they have some rights, IE the right not to be murdered or assaulted by another inmate. They need to be fed etc. The cost is I believe about £47,000 per prisoner per year in the UK, but higher in very high security prisons. Even if you got rid of human rights and have poor conditions with jails like in the USA, the cost does not reduce that much (it is something like $40,000 per prisoner per year at federal level).

    Maybe we should send them all to private school instead?
    On which point, it seems Starmer may agree with me and you:

    "Labour drops plan to strip public schools of charitable status"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66942985
    Let's all agree that Labour has adopted a sensible compromise that raises money to fund education for the majority without being unnecessarily punitive on this persecuted minority.
    Good morning

    Our son works in this sector and it is clear that the likes of Eton and other elite schools will see little effect as the wealthy will pay it, but there are many more less elite schools who are at risk of losing so many students they may well close with the loss of many jobs, a problem for local state schools having to admit more students, and the loss to the community of a facility that provides bursaries to the poorest and charitable work to and in the community

    I do not want to argue over this, but I am seeing it first hand and it is going to affect those fairly normal families who sacrifice considerably to provide their children with the education they want them to have

    Furthermore, it will not raise anything like the expected income and is likely to face legal challenges from the sector

    So no, I do not accept labour have adopted a sensible compromise as the 20% VAT charge and possibly the cancellation of gift aid will have a detrimental effect on the sector as I have outlined and an adverse effect for their communities and add to the numbers moving to state schools
    The IFS have run the numbers and say it will raise a material amount of money, which will help to improve things for the 93% of children who attend state schools. If we're going to trade personal anecdotes, my three children are all at state schools - our local primary, our local secondary and a Sixth form college - and they are crying out for more money, while the party you support so loyally is cutting real terms funding per pupil - so thanks for harming their life chances every day with your support for the Tories.
    You need to see what is happening to our grandchildren education here in Wales which is the responsibility of Welsh Labour government, and I simply do not accept for the reasons I have stated the net income to Labour will be anywhere near the figures quoted and may be negative

    As an example of the support the school provides to the community they allow him all the time he needs to fulfil his duties as RNLI crew including attending shouts, extensive time in training and indeed for the three days he has been away in Poole this week at RNLI training headquarters

    But that's true of many businesses. And - crucially - that is not relevant to education. So it does nothing at all to counter the damage to education more generally.

    But I forget: you don't want to discuss or argue the matter. Kindly therefore ignore this.
    I have made my points and that I do have family in the sector and of course others will disagree
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214

    darkage said:

    FPT

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-66934545

    "The ex-partner of a man who suffocated their three-month-old daughter said she feels "let down" and scared to learn of his imminent release.

    Simon Smith killed baby Lauren in 1994 in Staffordshire. An investigation led to the grim discovery he had also murdered his two other children.

    He was convicted of all three murders and jailed for life in 1996.

    Lauren's mother Rachel Playfair said the public would be horrified to know a triple murderer was being released.

    The Parole Board confirmed it had directed the release of Smith on licence following a hearing."

    Unless we lock 'em up and throw away the key, we shall continue to hear these stories whenever a murderer is released or paroled. Some will say life should mean life, or even death.
    For these type of cases it would now be a whole life term if sentenced in the present day.

    Since the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act was passed by this Conservative government last year, premeditated murder of a child means judges must give an automatic whole life term order
    The issue people should consider more this is the cost of 'throwing away the key'. If you aren't going to execute the prisoner, you have to accept that they have some rights, IE the right not to be murdered or assaulted by another inmate. They need to be fed etc. The cost is I believe about £47,000 per prisoner per year in the UK, but higher in very high security prisons. Even if you got rid of human rights and have poor conditions with jails like in the USA, the cost does not reduce that much (it is something like $40,000 per prisoner per year at federal level).

    Maybe we should send them all to private school instead?
    On which point, it seems Starmer may agree with me and you:

    "Labour drops plan to strip public schools of charitable status"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66942985
    Let's all agree that Labour has adopted a sensible compromise that raises money to fund education for the majority without being unnecessarily punitive on this persecuted minority.
    Good morning

    Our son works in this sector and it is clear that the likes of Eton and other elite schools will see little effect as the wealthy will pay it, but there are many more less elite schools who are at risk of losing so many students they may well close with the loss of many jobs, a problem for local state schools having to admit more students, and the loss to the community of a facility that provides bursaries to the poorest and charitable work to and in the community

    I do not want to argue over this, but I am seeing it first hand and it is going to affect those fairly normal families who sacrifice considerably to provide their children with the education they want them to have

    Furthermore, it will not raise anything like the expected income and is likely to face legal challenges from the sector

    So no, I do not accept labour have adopted a sensible compromise as the 20% VAT charge and possibly the cancellation of gift aid will have a detrimental effect on the sector as I have outlined and an adverse effect for their communities and add to the numbers moving to state schools
    The IFS have run the numbers and say it will raise a material amount of money, which will help to improve things for the 93% of children who attend state schools. If we're going to trade personal anecdotes, my three children are all at state schools - our local primary, our local secondary and a Sixth form college - and they are crying out for more money, while the party you support so loyally is cutting real terms funding per pupil - so thanks for harming their life chances every day with your support for the Tories.
    You need to see what is happening to our grandchildren education here in Wales which is the responsibility of Welsh Labour government, and I simply do not accept for the reasons I have stated the net income to Labour will be anywhere near the figures quoted and may be negative

    As an example of the support the school provides to the community they allow him all the time he needs to fulfil his duties as RNLI crew including attending shouts, extensive time in training and indeed for the three days he has been away in Poole this week at RNLI training headquarters

    But the schools can absorb the VAT charge by lowering their fees. Successive Conservative governments have demanded that state schools spend less per pupil, so there is surely scope for private schools to do the same.

    I bloody hope so. They’re extortionate as it is.
  • darkage said:

    FPT

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-66934545

    "The ex-partner of a man who suffocated their three-month-old daughter said she feels "let down" and scared to learn of his imminent release.

    Simon Smith killed baby Lauren in 1994 in Staffordshire. An investigation led to the grim discovery he had also murdered his two other children.

    He was convicted of all three murders and jailed for life in 1996.

    Lauren's mother Rachel Playfair said the public would be horrified to know a triple murderer was being released.

    The Parole Board confirmed it had directed the release of Smith on licence following a hearing."

    Unless we lock 'em up and throw away the key, we shall continue to hear these stories whenever a murderer is released or paroled. Some will say life should mean life, or even death.
    For these type of cases it would now be a whole life term if sentenced in the present day.

    Since the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act was passed by this Conservative government last year, premeditated murder of a child means judges must give an automatic whole life term order
    The issue people should consider more this is the cost of 'throwing away the key'. If you aren't going to execute the prisoner, you have to accept that they have some rights, IE the right not to be murdered or assaulted by another inmate. They need to be fed etc. The cost is I believe about £47,000 per prisoner per year in the UK, but higher in very high security prisons. Even if you got rid of human rights and have poor conditions with jails like in the USA, the cost does not reduce that much (it is something like $40,000 per prisoner per year at federal level).

    Maybe we should send them all to private school instead?
    On which point, it seems Starmer may agree with me and you:

    "Labour drops plan to strip public schools of charitable status"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66942985
    Let's all agree that Labour has adopted a sensible compromise that raises money to fund education for the majority without being unnecessarily punitive on this persecuted minority.
    Good morning

    Our son works in this sector and it is clear that the likes of Eton and other elite schools will see little effect as the wealthy will pay it, but there are many more less elite schools who are at risk of losing so many students they may well close with the loss of many jobs, a problem for local state schools having to admit more students, and the loss to the community of a facility that provides bursaries to the poorest and charitable work to and in the community

    I do not want to argue over this, but I am seeing it first hand and it is going to affect those fairly normal families who sacrifice considerably to provide their children with the education they want them to have

    Furthermore, it will not raise anything like the expected income and is likely to face legal challenges from the sector

    So no, I do not accept labour have adopted a sensible compromise as the 20% VAT charge and possibly the cancellation of gift aid will have a detrimental effect on the sector as I have outlined and an adverse effect for their communities and add to the numbers moving to state schools
    The IFS have run the numbers and say it will raise a material amount of money, which will help to improve things for the 93% of children who attend state schools. If we're going to trade personal anecdotes, my three children are all at state schools - our local primary, our local secondary and a Sixth form college - and they are crying out for more money, while the party you support so loyally is cutting real terms funding per pupil - so thanks for harming their life chances every day with your support for the Tories.
    You need to see what is happening to our grandchildren education here in Wales which is the responsibility of Welsh Labour government, and I simply do not accept for the reasons I have stated the net income to Labour will be anywhere near the figures quoted and may be negative

    As an example of the support the school provides to the community they allow him all the time he needs to fulfil his duties as RNLI crew including attending shouts, extensive time in training and indeed for the three days he has been away in Poole this week at RNLI training headquarters

    I'm sure you've run the numbers and are better at this kind of thing than the IFS.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,025
    edited September 2023
    Carnyx said:

    darkage said:

    FPT

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-66934545

    "The ex-partner of a man who suffocated their three-month-old daughter said she feels "let down" and scared to learn of his imminent release.

    Simon Smith killed baby Lauren in 1994 in Staffordshire. An investigation led to the grim discovery he had also murdered his two other children.

    He was convicted of all three murders and jailed for life in 1996.

    Lauren's mother Rachel Playfair said the public would be horrified to know a triple murderer was being released.

    The Parole Board confirmed it had directed the release of Smith on licence following a hearing."

    Unless we lock 'em up and throw away the key, we shall continue to hear these stories whenever a murderer is released or paroled. Some will say life should mean life, or even death.
    For these type of cases it would now be a whole life term if sentenced in the present day.

    Since the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act was passed by this Conservative government last year, premeditated murder of a child means judges must give an automatic whole life term order
    The issue people should consider more this is the cost of 'throwing away the key'. If you aren't going to execute the prisoner, you have to accept that they have some rights, IE the right not to be murdered or assaulted by another inmate. They need to be fed etc. The cost is I believe about £47,000 per prisoner per year in the UK, but higher in very high security prisons. Even if you got rid of human rights and have poor conditions with jails like in the USA, the cost does not reduce that much (it is something like $40,000 per prisoner per year at federal level).

    Maybe we should send them all to private school instead?
    On which point, it seems Starmer may agree with me and you:

    "Labour drops plan to strip public schools of charitable status"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66942985
    Let's all agree that Labour has adopted a sensible compromise that raises money to fund education for the majority without being unnecessarily punitive on this persecuted minority.
    Good morning

    Our son works in this sector and it is clear that the likes of Eton and other elite schools will see little effect as the wealthy will pay it, but there are many more less elite schools who are at risk of losing so many students they may well close with the loss of many jobs, a problem for local state schools having to admit more students, and the loss to the community of a facility that provides bursaries to the poorest and charitable work to and in the community

    I do not want to argue over this, but I am seeing it first hand and it is going to affect those fairly normal families who sacrifice considerably to provide their children with the education they want them to have

    Furthermore, it will not raise anything like the expected income and is likely to face legal challenges from the sector

    So no, I do not accept labour have adopted a sensible compromise as the 20% VAT charge and possibly the cancellation of gift aid will have a detrimental effect on the sector as I have outlined and an adverse effect for their communities and add to the numbers moving to state schools
    It really isn't normal families. Even amongst high income families, it's a very small minority.

    The proportion of children attending private school is close to zero across the vast majority of the income distribution, and doesn’t rise above 10% of the cohort except among those with the top 5% of incomes. Only half of those in the top 1% send their kids to private school


    https://blogs.ucl.ac.uk/ioe/2021/02/08/housing-wealth-not-bursaries-explains-much-of-private-school-participation-for-those-without-high-income/

    It doesn't make the policy right or wrong, but normal families, even normal professional families, stopped being able to afford private schools out of salaries long ago.
    Quite so. Friend of mine (London high flyer) sent his children to the same Headmasters' Conference "public" school as he attended in the 1970s. Then, it was full of normal professional families - children of accountants and farmers, and the like. Now, vastly shifted to the financial elite and a very high percentage of students from overseas.
    I have to say that our experience with Dundee High School was almost the opposite of that. When my daughter started there 25 years ago now the school ethos and cohort was dominated by trustafarians from Broughty Ferry and the country whose fees were being paid out of capital. Over the next 20 odd years this grouping became ever less significant with far more children coming from the homes of professionals and business people in Dundee, specifically immigrant business people. By the time my son left 2 years ago the old money group were a very small minority indeed.

    This had some positive effects on the school. The professionals were much more interested in results than those who simply wished to ensure that their kids had a social network that was likely to help them through life. They put pressure on the school to improve results and it worked. Extra help for those who wanted to study medicine, for example, was made available relating to their specific entrance exams.

    In the 2 years since my son left there has been a sharp increase in fees. This is partly because of tax changes, notably rates, but also because fees were held down during Covid. We would have found the current fees very difficult to pay from income and if this trend continues it may be that the old money once again becomes more signficant.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,557
    DavidL said:

    Fewer than half of trainee GPs go on to work full time for the NHS
    High dropout rate has left health service increasingly reliant on foreign doctors to fill vacancies, report warns

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/09/27/trainee-doctors-full-time-nhs/ (£££)

    Link to the source think tank report:-
    https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/research/waste-not-want-not-strategies-to-improve-the-supply-of-clinical-staff-to-the-nhs

    The Telegraph’s reporting is confusing there. The source given doesn’t mention GPs: it’s all about nurses and allied health professionals.

    This Guardian article explains part of what’s happening with GPs: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/sep/18/two-thirds-of-trainee-gps-in-england-plan-to-work-part-time-study-finds Lots of GPs work what is notionally a bit less than full-time, but because of workload pressures, their actual hours are the equivalent of a full-time job.
    Is there not a gender issue here? Anecdotally, I have read several times that the problem is largely young, female doctors who choose to go part time in their child bearing years and that the relative over performance of girls academically meant that they were increasing their proportion of the cohort for what remains a very competitive course.

    The problem for the government is that it costs us so much to subsidise the training of a doctor that it becomes an issue if so many of them either do not practise in the NHS at all or only do so on a part time basis.
    I have a very senior doctor friend who has said for years,in the safety of social situations with only a couple of good friends, that there is a big problem with the loss of female doctors from the system when they have children.

    It’s clearly something that would be career suicide if he mentioned it in his professional world, and clearly we can’t have a situation where we don’t train women as doctors because you train them then lose a lot for a chunk of their career, but I wonder if it is something that can never be solved because the optics of bringing it up as an issue would be beyond problematic.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,568
    I think we need to recognise that Labour's lead has slipped a few points. Nothing too worrying yet, but if the Tories have a good conference we could see that sub-10% point, which in turn may affect the by-election betting.
  • darkage said:

    FPT

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-66934545

    "The ex-partner of a man who suffocated their three-month-old daughter said she feels "let down" and scared to learn of his imminent release.

    Simon Smith killed baby Lauren in 1994 in Staffordshire. An investigation led to the grim discovery he had also murdered his two other children.

    He was convicted of all three murders and jailed for life in 1996.

    Lauren's mother Rachel Playfair said the public would be horrified to know a triple murderer was being released.

    The Parole Board confirmed it had directed the release of Smith on licence following a hearing."

    Unless we lock 'em up and throw away the key, we shall continue to hear these stories whenever a murderer is released or paroled. Some will say life should mean life, or even death.
    For these type of cases it would now be a whole life term if sentenced in the present day.

    Since the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act was passed by this Conservative government last year, premeditated murder of a child means judges must give an automatic whole life term order
    The issue people should consider more this is the cost of 'throwing away the key'. If you aren't going to execute the prisoner, you have to accept that they have some rights, IE the right not to be murdered or assaulted by another inmate. They need to be fed etc. The cost is I believe about £47,000 per prisoner per year in the UK, but higher in very high security prisons. Even if you got rid of human rights and have poor conditions with jails like in the USA, the cost does not reduce that much (it is something like $40,000 per prisoner per year at federal level).

    Maybe we should send them all to private school instead?
    On which point, it seems Starmer may agree with me and you:

    "Labour drops plan to strip public schools of charitable status"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66942985
    Let's all agree that Labour has adopted a sensible compromise that raises money to fund education for the majority without being unnecessarily punitive on this persecuted minority.
    Good morning

    Our son works in this sector and it is clear that the likes of Eton and other elite schools will see little effect as the wealthy will pay it, but there are many more less elite schools who are at risk of losing so many students they may well close with the loss of many jobs, a problem for local state schools having to admit more students, and the loss to the community of a facility that provides bursaries to the poorest and charitable work to and in the community

    I do not want to argue over this, but I am seeing it first hand and it is going to affect those fairly normal families who sacrifice considerably to provide their children with the education they want them to have

    Furthermore, it will not raise anything like the expected income and is likely to face legal challenges from the sector

    So no, I do not accept labour have adopted a sensible compromise as the 20% VAT charge and possibly the cancellation of gift aid will have a detrimental effect on the sector as I have outlined and an adverse effect for their communities and add to the numbers moving to state schools
    The IFS have run the numbers and say it will raise a material amount of money, which will help to improve things for the 93% of children who attend state schools. If we're going to trade personal anecdotes, my three children are all at state schools - our local primary, our local secondary and a Sixth form college - and they are crying out for more money, while the party you support so loyally is cutting real terms funding per pupil - so thanks for harming their life chances every day with your support for the Tories.
    You need to see what is happening to our grandchildren education here in Wales which is the responsibility of Welsh Labour government, and I simply do not accept for the reasons I have stated the net income to Labour will be anywhere near the figures quoted and may be negative

    As an example of the support the school provides to the community they allow him all the time he needs to fulfil his duties as RNLI crew including attending shouts, extensive time in training and indeed for the three days he has been away in Poole this week at RNLI training headquarters

    But the schools can absorb the VAT charge by lowering their fees. Successive Conservative governments have demanded that state schools spend less per pupil, so there is surely scope for private schools to do the same.

    Private schools could lower spending per pupil to state school levels, keep fees the same, and double the number of pupils on free scholarships. What's not to love about this? Fee paying parents are only sending their kids private for the good of society as a whole, so they will be happy to contribute. Private schools' real purpose as charities is educating the great unwashed, not giving the already privileged an additional leg up, so they will love this change. And resentful chippy fellows like me will be satisfied that we have a level playing field at last. There, problem solved. You're welcome.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,712
    DavidL said:

    Fewer than half of trainee GPs go on to work full time for the NHS
    High dropout rate has left health service increasingly reliant on foreign doctors to fill vacancies, report warns

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/09/27/trainee-doctors-full-time-nhs/ (£££)

    Link to the source think tank report:-
    https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/research/waste-not-want-not-strategies-to-improve-the-supply-of-clinical-staff-to-the-nhs

    The Telegraph’s reporting is confusing there. The source given doesn’t mention GPs: it’s all about nurses and allied health professionals.

    This Guardian article explains part of what’s happening with GPs: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/sep/18/two-thirds-of-trainee-gps-in-england-plan-to-work-part-time-study-finds Lots of GPs work what is notionally a bit less than full-time, but because of workload pressures, their actual hours are the equivalent of a full-time job.
    Is there not a gender issue here? Anecdotally, I have read several times that the problem is largely young, female doctors who choose to go part time in their child bearing years and that the relative over performance of girls academically meant that they were increasing their proportion of the cohort for what remains a very competitive course.

    The problem for the government is that it costs us so much to subsidise the training of a doctor that it becomes an issue if so many of them either do not practise in the NHS at all or only do so on a part time basis.
    Our small town has one GP practice with three GP’s, all female and all part-time. I’ve met two of them and they are both mothers of primary school children. Incidentally, the practice is not accepting new patients.
    However we have a further 300 houses beIng built, which from the look of the estate will soon have residents. We’ve been promised more medical services, but it’s a bit difficult to see them coming.
    Our neighbour community has a similar amount of building and as far as I can see there are fewer full-time GP’s than a few years ago.
  • Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. L, you're right, but the current 'women are wonderful' Zeitgeist means this won't be mentioned by politicians who would be crucified by a delinquent media for 'sexism'.
This discussion has been closed.