A point that I don't think has been covered here is so-called 'synthetic fuels', effectively 'biomass petrol'. If the fuel you're putting in your petrol car has already sucked carbon out of the air, it's Net Zero. This is similar to what's being proposed for aeroplanes. It's a big topic of discussion within the EU and was raised in the recent parliamentary debate here too. You keep all your current pumps/infrastructure, you don't have the increased carbon output of manufacturing evs, you don't have the vast strain on the national grid, etc. etc. etc. Seems good to me.
I think that was tried with biofuels. The problem is that land devoted to biofuels is land denied to food crops and you run out of food. Or were you thinking of something else?
I don't know, I only heard the concept of these fuels the other day. I'll have a look.
I was going to respond to you in the same way @viewcode has, but didn't because the thread had changed. There are plenty of opportunities for biofuels but beware of what viewcode says.. A similar argument was used for Palm oil and it resulted in rainforests being destroyed to grow it. If it is ethanol you are after you will be competing for the same land as food which results in the desire to destroy forests to get that land.
Wonder what the impact of this will be on the green vote.
Logically those who care a lot about the environment should go Labour... the line that two parties are all the same on environment clearly doesn't wash now.
But the increased focus on green issues could mean a boost for green party possibly?
It could, but it may also mean that Green voters may be more squeezable in marginals.
The next polls - not this week but towards the end of next week and into October as the policy sinks in - will be interesting.
I have changed my mind overnight, originally having thought Sunak was looking weak and chaotic. Because I keep hearing newsreaders repeating the implication that everyone was going to be forced to scrap their car / boiler in 2030. If that’s the (lie) story then people will be all for the changes.
There’s also the implication, somehow, as if through muscle memory, that the policies being scrapped were Labour ones, or cooked up by woke civil servants. Not hard core Tory policy until yesterday, The new Tory government stepping in to save hard working people from the woke blob.
So I think whilst this won’t lead to a surge it will arrest Sunak’s decline and get him back a couple of percentage points from Refuk.
Labour need to wrest the narrative back to crumbling schools and hospitals, waiting lists, empty high streets and economic sclerosis.
Clear dividing lines between parties are a good thing.
Sunak has clearly staked his ground as anti-green and, given these policies was thought up on the fly, we can only assume if he was to be elected for another five years he would further erode our commitment to decarbonisation.
15 years' of government that started with the Tories changing their logo to a green tree end with them ditching their own policies on the environment.
We'll see whether it has any effect in firming up the core Tory vote vs alienating people further.
Given how far behind the Tories are in the polls there is some sense in Sunak’s announcement that he intends to scrap many of the key environmental targets that have been settled policy for several years. Firstly he gets a lot of public attention as we see from today’s front pages. Secondly what he’s putting forward is quite novel and extremely controversial.
On that basis there would have been some sense in an announcement by Sunak that he was going to run naked down Whitehall and jump in the Thames.
I think we need to shoot every dog in the country.
Driver rams dog with car to stop attack
A driver used his car to ram a mastiff-type dog as it attacked a dog walker and dragged him into the road.
Video showed the man being set upon by a large brown dog next to a busy road in Sheffield while he held on to his smaller pet, trying to keep it out of reach. As the dog tried to pull him into the road, a passing motorist mounted the pavement and struck the animal with the car bonnet.
Armed police were called to the Handsworth area on Tuesday and eventually managed to restrain the dog and seize it. The man was left with serious injuries to his arm and was taken to hospital. South Yorkshire police said that a 53-year-old man from the city had been arrested on suspicion of having a dangerous dog out of control and remained in custody.
The dog was believed to live at a nearby property and is said to have jumped over a wall before pouncing on the passer-by.
Given how far behind the Tories are in the polls there is some sense in Sunak’s announcement that he intends to scrap many of the key environmental targets that have been settled policy for several years. Firstly he gets a lot of public attention as we see from today’s front pages. Secondly what he’s putting forward is quite novel and extremely controversial.
On that basis there would have been some sense in an announcement by Sunak that he was going to run naked down Whitehall and jump in the Thames.
I think if he did that, it would increase what respect I have for him.
On topic, Sunak isn't pitching to centrists or floating voters. He's trying to shore up his base so they have a reason to turn out for him next year rather than staying at home, shrugging that they're no different to Labour, or voting Reform. The objective is to save as many Tory seats as possible so they have a chance to rebuild in opposition.
The strategy and policy will have been carefully polled and focus grouped - the Tories have plenty of money to do this - so expect more of it.
I think we need to shoot every dog in the country.
Driver rams dog with car to stop attack
A driver used his car to ram a mastiff-type dog as it attacked a dog walker and dragged him into the road.
Video showed the man being set upon by a large brown dog next to a busy road in Sheffield while he held on to his smaller pet, trying to keep it out of reach. As the dog tried to pull him into the road, a passing motorist mounted the pavement and struck the animal with the car bonnet.
Armed police were called to the Handsworth area on Tuesday and eventually managed to restrain the dog and seize it. The man was left with serious injuries to his arm and was taken to hospital. South Yorkshire police said that a 53-year-old man from the city had been arrested on suspicion of having a dangerous dog out of control and remained in custody.
The dog was believed to live at a nearby property and is said to have jumped over a wall before pouncing on the passer-by.
How odd. They specifically seem to be Waffen-SS (or worse) rather than the Wehrmacht, too, with the Reich eagle on the left arm, and what looks like the lightning runes on the collar patch and skull on the cap (clearly so in some cases). So the report by the LBC and BBC of SS outfits is quite right. Also see this.
What is also odd is that the ORs seem to be in late war ankle boots and gaiters.
Surprising choice all round when they have the Wehrmacht option if it's just the Stahlhelm, jackboot and Schmeisser MP40 look they want.
Clear dividing lines between parties are a good thing.
Sunak has clearly staked his ground as anti-green and, given these policies was thought up on the fly, we can only assume if he was to be elected for another five years he would further erode our commitment to decarbonisation.
15 years' of government that started with the Tories changing their logo to a green tree end with them ditching their own policies on the environment.
We'll see whether it has any effect in firming up the core Tory vote vs alienating people further.
Why do you say, "Clear dividing lines between parties are a good thing"?
There were clear dividing lines between parties in the US in 2016 and 2020, in the UK in 2019, and in France in 2022. Was that a good thing? Were they elections that provided more light or more heat?
I'd agree that, where parties have important areas of disagreement as to the way forward, that's fine and let's have a good debate about those differences. But clear dividing lines for their own sake aren't a particularly good thing.
During an exceptionally long drive home yesterday I was being repeatedly told that this was a big deal, that these were radical changes but, frankly, I am not really seeing it. If Ford want to go ahead and build a 100% EV fleet by 2030 they can, of course, do so. All that the extension means is that their rivals will not be allowed to build more than 20% of their fleet as ICE cars for another 5 years: so what? The money available to subsidise new boilers and heat pumps has actually increased. I am not seeing anything material that will change the way most people will live.
What we do see is much cooler rhetoric from the government about Green priorities. This is consistent with Sunak's decision to grant new licences in the North Sea. Sunak is much more aware of the cost of such policies at a time when our economy is struggling for momentum. Given that there was, under Boris, a pretty much cross party consensus on this until now it is possible that this difference of view may result in policy differences from Labour. I don't really think that we are there yet though.
On topic, Sunak isn't pitching to centrists or floating voters. He's trying to shore up his base so they have a reason to turn out for him next year rather than staying at home, shrugging that they're no different to Labour, or voting Reform. The objective is to save as many Tory seats as possible so they have a chance to rebuild in opposition.
The strategy and policy will have been carefully polled and focus grouped - the Tories have plenty of money to do this - so expect more of it.
You’d assume so, but the chaotic way in which it was leaked then announced and the way it apparently took even some front benchers by surprise doesn’t point to something extensively polled and focus grouped.
Given how far behind the Tories are in the polls there is some sense in Sunak’s announcement that he intends to scrap many of the key environmental targets that have been settled policy for several years. Firstly he gets a lot of public attention as we see from today’s front pages. Secondly what he’s putting forward is quite novel and extremely controversial.
On that basis there would have been some sense in an announcement by Sunak that he was going to run naked down Whitehall and jump in the Thames.
I think if he did that, it would increase what respect I have for him.
They can't have run the jumping in the Thames part past a focus group, or he'd have done it by now.
Why is Caroline Dineage MP trending in the US overnight?
I’m not sure what to think of this one, apparently genuine letter written to Rumble’s CEO in the US, from the head of the Culture, Media, and Sport Committee, coming very close to suggesting that Rumble should be demonetising Russell Brand - not for anything he’s posted on their site, but just because he’s a bad person.
The Rumble CEO published the letter, and a quite forthright reply about freedom of speech.
It's not just the alt-right. Freedom of speech matters to Americans, whereas here it is just a slogan wheeled out from time to time when convenient in the land of draconian libel laws, super-injunctions and now this. First Amendment and all that.
Indeed. Freedom of speech does not exist in the United Kingdom and never has. The only argument is which speech to suppress and which speech to permit, and how it changes over time.
Also, there's a lot of confected outrage about this - the EU adopted a similar 2035 target six months ago and voices were rather quieter about that.
I suspect there is a rationale in simply not putting the UK at a comparative disadvantage. HMG will have access to investment data.
I went back to the time the EU announced that, your fellow Brexiteers on here were extolling the decision as a Brexit benefit giving the UK a competitive advantage over the sclerotic EU.
But I am glad you are seeing the wisdom of aligning ourselves with the EU, you'll be campaigning for Rejoin in the next referendum, mark my words.
Also, there's a lot of confected outrage about this - the EU adopted a similar 2035 target six months ago and voices were rather quieter about that.
I suspect there is a rationale in simply not putting the UK at a comparative disadvantage. HMG will have access to investment data.
Yes, for all the froth about losing our "leader" status and losing out (why? how?) in "new technologies" Sunak is much more focused on the cost than the opportunities. I suspect he is right to be doubtful about this.
On topic, Sunak isn't pitching to centrists or floating voters. He's trying to shore up his base so they have a reason to turn out for him next year rather than staying at home, shrugging that they're no different to Labour, or voting Reform. The objective is to save as many Tory seats as possible so they have a chance to rebuild in opposition.
The strategy and policy will have been carefully polled and focus grouped - the Tories have plenty of money to do this - so expect more of it.
You’d assume so, but the chaotic way in which it was leaked then announced and the way it apparently took even some front benchers by surprise doesn’t point to something extensively polled and focus grouped.
I think that's very much in the eye of the beholder. Sunak might well have intended to keep it under wraps to avoid leaks and create maximum headline impact.
Also, there's a lot of confected outrage about this - the EU adopted a similar 2035 target six months ago and voices were rather quieter about that.
I suspect there is a rationale in simply not putting the UK at a comparative disadvantage. HMG will have access to investment data.
Yes, for all the froth about losing our "leader" status and losing out (why? how?) in "new technologies" Sunak is much more focused on the cost than the opportunities. I suspect he is right to be doubtful about this.
I don’t think he’s focused on anything but opinion polls. This is just Uxbridge aftershocks.
Also, there's a lot of confected outrage about this - the EU adopted a similar 2035 target six months ago and voices were rather quieter about that.
I suspect there is a rationale in simply not putting the UK at a comparative disadvantage. HMG will have access to investment data.
Yes, for all the froth about losing our "leader" status and losing out (why? how?) in "new technologies" Sunak is much more focused on the cost than the opportunities. I suspect he is right to be doubtful about this.
Sunak’s focus on costs rather than opportunities is what led to the RAAC crisis, growing NHS waiting lists, a growing asylum backlog, etc.
Also, there's a lot of confected outrage about this - the EU adopted a similar 2035 target six months ago and voices were rather quieter about that.
I suspect there is a rationale in simply not putting the UK at a comparative disadvantage. HMG will have access to investment data.
Yes, for all the froth about losing our "leader" status and losing out (why? how?) in "new technologies" Sunak is much more focused on the cost than the opportunities. I suspect he is right to be doubtful about this.
The big bit the government has failed on, and I can't see much of a plan, is the rapid roll-out of EV infrastructure to support EV sales.
There are two sides of the equation here and HMG seems to think it can happen just by kicking the private sector with a target on the latter.
Also, there's a lot of confected outrage about this - the EU adopted a similar 2035 target six months ago and voices were rather quieter about that.
I suspect there is a rationale in simply not putting the UK at a comparative disadvantage. HMG will have access to investment data.
The argument [edit] for 2030, from the same government, was to diverge from the EU and get in ahead with new investment and new industry ...
The irony is that the argument is irrelevant come July 2025 all cars need to meet the Euro 7 rules which means all ICE cars will need to be hybrid to meet any chance of meeting the criteria...
On topic, Sunak isn't pitching to centrists or floating voters. He's trying to shore up his base so they have a reason to turn out for him next year rather than staying at home, shrugging that they're no different to Labour, or voting Reform. The objective is to save as many Tory seats as possible so they have a chance to rebuild in opposition.
The strategy and policy will have been carefully polled and focus grouped - the Tories have plenty of money to do this - so expect more of it.
You’d assume so, but the chaotic way in which it was leaked then announced and the way it apparently took even some front benchers by surprise doesn’t point to something extensively polled and focus grouped.
The Times has a leak of the government polling and focus grouping, which doesn't sound promising;
Rishi Sunak’s new net-zero plan is unlikely to win back many wavering Conservative voters, polling and focus groups seen in Downing Street before the prime minister’s announcement suggest.
Also, there's a lot of confected outrage about this - the EU adopted a similar 2035 target six months ago and voices were rather quieter about that.
I suspect there is a rationale in simply not putting the UK at a comparative disadvantage. HMG will have access to investment data.
I went back to the time the EU announced that, your fellow Brexiteers on here were extolling the decision as a Brexit benefit giving the UK a competitive advantage over the sclerotic EU.
But I am glad you are seeing the wisdom of aligning ourselves with the EU, you'll be campaigning for Rejoin in the next referendum, mark my words.
On the flip side it's amusing how it's remainers in the main that are frothing at the mouth over EU alignment on environment policy
The furious blob. Thirteen years and still blaming The Blob.
To be fair to Allister Heath, he’s talking about the wider cultural Establishment, rather than the Civil Service, on this occasion.
“[...]
“Yet by any rational standard, Sunak is merely being pragmatic and realistic: banning pure petrol cars in six and a bit years’ time is a dangerously utopian policy that would guarantee chaos, mass impoverishment, power cuts and a popular revolution. /
It's not a ban on petrol cars. It's a ban on new petrol cars.
The difference between the truth and Alister Heath's mistake is vast.
Even the BBC keeps making that mistake, and the local Facebook groups are riddled with it.
People genuinely think the government will come round and scrap their cars and rip out their boilers.
Remember how I talk about how the Tories have weaponised stupidity and ignorance...?
It's a vicious circle where voters are goaded to make stupid choices that make the country poorer and the voters more angry and cynical and open to further goading... And then one day you wake up and realise you've become Argentina. And like Argentina, people who can see through this BS and know where their country is heading will leave, which makes the remaining population easier to manipulate. It's a very dangerous game the Tories are playing, and to what end?
Why bother with elections then? Just let you and your friends run the country as you see fit? After all you are far smarter than the rest of us!
Also, there's a lot of confected outrage about this - the EU adopted a similar 2035 target six months ago and voices were rather quieter about that.
I suspect there is a rationale in simply not putting the UK at a comparative disadvantage. HMG will have access to investment data.
I went back to the time the EU announced that, your fellow Brexiteers on here were extolling the decision as a Brexit benefit giving the UK a competitive advantage over the sclerotic EU.
But I am glad you are seeing the wisdom of aligning ourselves with the EU, you'll be campaigning for Rejoin in the next referendum, mark my words.
On the flip side it's amusing how it's remainers in the main that are frothing at the mouth over EU alignment on environment policy
Unlike Cromer, Sheringham is a really nice resort. I'm off there this weekend, and will make sure I buy some extra bagels whilst there.
Am I a terrible person for thinking it would have been funny if the hotel they were staying in had a gas leak and they died?
I'm afraid you are a bit, yes.
In a hotel? One would hope in proper tents with a Gulaschkanone to make the sausage stew (a C20 version of the chaps from the Grande Armee c. 1805 I once met at Dover Western Heights, in their bivouacs and campfires).
THough to be really realistic they will have been evicting some locals from their cottages at gunpoint and sleeping in the beds with their boots on.
Clear dividing lines between parties are a good thing.
Sunak has clearly staked his ground as anti-green and, given these policies was thought up on the fly, we can only assume if he was to be elected for another five years he would further erode our commitment to decarbonisation.
15 years' of government that started with the Tories changing their logo to a green tree end with them ditching their own policies on the environment.
We'll see whether it has any effect in firming up the core Tory vote vs alienating people further.
Why do you say, "Clear dividing lines between parties are a good thing"?
There were clear dividing lines between parties in the US in 2016 and 2020, in the UK in 2019, and in France in 2022. Was that a good thing? Were they elections that provided more light or more heat?
I'd agree that, where parties have important areas of disagreement as to the way forward, that's fine and let's have a good debate about those differences. But clear dividing lines for their own sake aren't a particularly good thing.
I'm not saying division for the sake of it, but UK politics was - beyond a few culture war issues with limited real world impact - stuck between a government that is plodding along aimlessly and an opposition that is, understandably, playing it very safe. And there's no money left for anyone to do anything flashy (see L. Truss).
The trade off regarding environmental policies is a genuine one. The specifics of this policy are a bit pointless - how many people will buy a new ICE car between 2031 and 2035? - but it leaves the public with one party making clear they want to drag their heels on the issue.
That creates a distinct policy difference Vs Labour and Lib Dems who will take action sooner, which is a positive reason to vote for them.
Also, there's a lot of confected outrage about this - the EU adopted a similar 2035 target six months ago and voices were rather quieter about that.
I suspect there is a rationale in simply not putting the UK at a comparative disadvantage. HMG will have access to investment data.
You know, the fact that people on this UK-focused site focus on UK politics is not the gotcha you think it is.
Policy choices in other jurisdictions are less well known here for obvious reasons. There are a thousand things happening today in other parts of the world that you would be furious about if they happened here, and you comment on almost none of it. That doesn't mean if you do comment on something similar in the UK that your feelings are "confected".
Also, there's a lot of confected outrage about this - the EU adopted a similar 2035 target six months ago and voices were rather quieter about that.
I suspect there is a rationale in simply not putting the UK at a comparative disadvantage. HMG will have access to investment data.
Yes, for all the froth about losing our "leader" status and losing out (why? how?) in "new technologies" Sunak is much more focused on the cost than the opportunities. I suspect he is right to be doubtful about this.
Sunak’s focus on costs rather than opportunities is what led to the RAAC crisis, growing NHS waiting lists, a growing asylum backlog, etc.
Really not seeing how Sunak is responsible for the RAAC crisis.
Also, there's a lot of confected outrage about this - the EU adopted a similar 2035 target six months ago and voices were rather quieter about that.
I suspect there is a rationale in simply not putting the UK at a comparative disadvantage. HMG will have access to investment data.
Yes, for all the froth about losing our "leader" status and losing out (why? how?) in "new technologies" Sunak is much more focused on the cost than the opportunities. I suspect he is right to be doubtful about this.
The big bit the government has failed on, and I can't see much of a plan, is the rapid roll-out of EV infrastructure to support EV sales.
There are two sides of the equation here and HMG seems to think it can happen just by kicking the private sector with a target on the latter.
I actually think there has been a fair amount of progress on public EV infrastructure, and that it isn't all that unreasonable to expect a lot of EV infrastructure will arise from private sector investment, noting petrol stations don't tend to be state enterprises.
Also, there's a lot of confected outrage about this - the EU adopted a similar 2035 target six months ago and voices were rather quieter about that.
I suspect there is a rationale in simply not putting the UK at a comparative disadvantage. HMG will have access to investment data.
I went back to the time the EU announced that, your fellow Brexiteers on here were extolling the decision as a Brexit benefit giving the UK a competitive advantage over the sclerotic EU.
But I am glad you are seeing the wisdom of aligning ourselves with the EU, you'll be campaigning for Rejoin in the next referendum, mark my words.
On the flip side it's amusing how it's remainers in the main that are frothing at the mouth over EU alignment on environment policy
Zac Goldsmith is a Remainer?
No, but he's good err friends with Bojo's missed who clearly steered Boris on his outlook/policy decisions on this.
Also, there's a lot of confected outrage about this - the EU adopted a similar 2035 target six months ago and voices were rather quieter about that.
I suspect there is a rationale in simply not putting the UK at a comparative disadvantage. HMG will have access to investment data.
Yes, for all the froth about losing our "leader" status and losing out (why? how?) in "new technologies" Sunak is much more focused on the cost than the opportunities. I suspect he is right to be doubtful about this.
Sunak’s focus on costs rather than opportunities is what led to the RAAC crisis, growing NHS waiting lists, a growing asylum backlog, etc.
Really not seeing how Sunak is responsible for the RAAC crisis.
He made it worse.
Rishi Sunak refused to properly fund a school rebuilding programme when he was chancellor, despite officials presenting evidence that there was “a critical risk to life” from crumbling concrete panels, the Department for Education’s former head civil servant has said.
After the department told Sunak’s Treasury that there was a need to rebuild 300 to 400 schools a year in England, he gave funding for only 100, which was then halved to 50, said Jonathan Slater, the permanent secretary of the department from 2016 to 2020.
Also, there's a lot of confected outrage about this - the EU adopted a similar 2035 target six months ago and voices were rather quieter about that.
I suspect there is a rationale in simply not putting the UK at a comparative disadvantage. HMG will have access to investment data.
Yes, for all the froth about losing our "leader" status and losing out (why? how?) in "new technologies" Sunak is much more focused on the cost than the opportunities. I suspect he is right to be doubtful about this.
Sunak’s focus on costs rather than opportunities is what led to the RAAC crisis, growing NHS waiting lists, a growing asylum backlog, etc.
Really not seeing how Sunak is responsible for the RAAC crisis.
The focus on costs is - which he has perpetrated and indeed strengthened by e.g. cutting the already starved school rebuilding programme.
Also, there's a lot of confected outrage about this - the EU adopted a similar 2035 target six months ago and voices were rather quieter about that.
I suspect there is a rationale in simply not putting the UK at a comparative disadvantage. HMG will have access to investment data.
Yes, for all the froth about losing our "leader" status and losing out (why? how?) in "new technologies" Sunak is much more focused on the cost than the opportunities. I suspect he is right to be doubtful about this.
The big bit the government has failed on, and I can't see much of a plan, is the rapid roll-out of EV infrastructure to support EV sales.
There are two sides of the equation here and HMG seems to think it can happen just by kicking the private sector with a target on the latter.
I think that this is the key. When charging points are ubiquitous and the petrol/diesel supply network starts to fail because of falling demand having an EV will be a no brainer for everyone, whatever the regulations say. We are a long way short of that at the moment.
How odd. They specifically seem to be Waffen-SS (or worse) rather than the Wehrmacht, too, with the Reich eagle on the left arm, and what looks like the lightning runes on the collar patch and skull on the cap (clearly so in some cases). So the report by the LBC and BBC of SS outfits is quite right. Also see this.
What is also odd is that the ORs seem to be in late war ankle boots and gaiters.
Surprising choice all round when they have the Wehrmacht option if it's just the Stahlhelm, jackboot and Schmeisser MP40 look they want.
Got to respect their commitment to historical accuracy though, they seem to have dressed a 12 year old up to depict the last days of the Reich. You can imagine the wee lad having his cheek pinched by the palsied hand of the Führer while being awarded an Iron Cross.
Also, there's a lot of confected outrage about this - the EU adopted a similar 2035 target six months ago and voices were rather quieter about that.
I suspect there is a rationale in simply not putting the UK at a comparative disadvantage. HMG will have access to investment data.
Yes, for all the froth about losing our "leader" status and losing out (why? how?) in "new technologies" Sunak is much more focused on the cost than the opportunities. I suspect he is right to be doubtful about this.
Sunak’s focus on costs rather than opportunities is what led to the RAAC crisis, growing NHS waiting lists, a growing asylum backlog, etc.
Really not seeing how Sunak is responsible for the RAAC crisis.
The focus on costs is - which he has perpetrated and indeed strengthened by e.g. cutting the already starved school rebuilding programme.
Edit: TSE has done it, with reference.
And he is part of a government that’s been doing this since 2010.
It's a vicious circle where voters are goaded to make stupid choices that make the country poorer and the voters more angry and cynical and open to further goading... And then one day you wake up and realise you've become Argentina. And like Argentina, people who can see through this BS and know where their country is heading will leave, which makes the remaining population easier to manipulate. It's a very dangerous game the Tories are playing, and to what end?
Mark Carney gave a speech recently where he noted that instead of "Singapore on Thames" as promised by the Brexiteers, Truss delivered "Argentina on the Chanel" instead.
At least we’ll smell nice.
If we’re ‘Argentina on the Channel’ will we be able to make some decent red wine?
Also, there's a lot of confected outrage about this - the EU adopted a similar 2035 target six months ago and voices were rather quieter about that.
I suspect there is a rationale in simply not putting the UK at a comparative disadvantage. HMG will have access to investment data.
The argument [edit] for 2030, from the same government, was to diverge from the EU and get in ahead with new investment and new industry ...
The irony is that the argument is irrelevant come July 2025 all cars need to meet the Euro 7 rules which means all ICE cars will need to be hybrid to meet any chance of meeting the criteria...
Oh hell.
He's not thought this through, has he?
And by not consulting other ministers, he's not got a plan to turn his press conference into reality.
I think we need to shoot every dog in the country.
Driver rams dog with car to stop attack
A driver used his car to ram a mastiff-type dog as it attacked a dog walker and dragged him into the road.
Video showed the man being set upon by a large brown dog next to a busy road in Sheffield while he held on to his smaller pet, trying to keep it out of reach. As the dog tried to pull him into the road, a passing motorist mounted the pavement and struck the animal with the car bonnet.
Armed police were called to the Handsworth area on Tuesday and eventually managed to restrain the dog and seize it. The man was left with serious injuries to his arm and was taken to hospital. South Yorkshire police said that a 53-year-old man from the city had been arrested on suspicion of having a dangerous dog out of control and remained in custody.
The dog was believed to live at a nearby property and is said to have jumped over a wall before pouncing on the passer-by.
AI is now generating pretty pictures - that also function as QR codes. And they really work
Is this the first example of “art” that humans simply couldn’t do, no matter how talented?
A human could do this. It would be laborious, to be sure, but the principle is easy enough. It's still quite a leap of imagination to think of doing it, though, so kudos to the person who dreamt it up.
How odd. They specifically seem to be Waffen-SS (or worse) rather than the Wehrmacht, too, with the Reich eagle on the left arm, and what looks like the lightning runes on the collar patch and skull on the cap (clearly so in some cases). So the report by the LBC and BBC of SS outfits is quite right. Also see this.
What is also odd is that the ORs seem to be in late war ankle boots and gaiters.
Surprising choice all round when they have the Wehrmacht option if it's just the Stahlhelm, jackboot and Schmeisser MP40 look they want.
It baffles me why these guys think it's in any way a good idea to dress as SS. What are their thought processes that lead them to think 'Yeah, I'll get me an SS uniform and wear it out in public'. I mean, even if you're cosplaying as that Nazi dude whose face melts in the Indiana Jones film, it staggers me that some voice in their head doesn't kick in and say 'Nah, I think I'll avoid the whole SS thing, actually.'
I can kind of understand re-enactors doing the Wehrmacht thing - historical understanding and all that - but even that I find slightly questionable. The notion of the 'clean Wehrmacht' is long-discredited. But SS is taking it to a whole different level.
How odd. They specifically seem to be Waffen-SS (or worse) rather than the Wehrmacht, too, with the Reich eagle on the left arm, and what looks like the lightning runes on the collar patch and skull on the cap (clearly so in some cases). So the report by the LBC and BBC of SS outfits is quite right. Also see this.
What is also odd is that the ORs seem to be in late war ankle boots and gaiters.
Surprising choice all round when they have the Wehrmacht option if it's just the Stahlhelm, jackboot and Schmeisser MP40 look they want.
Got to respect their commitment to historical accuracy though, they seem to have dressed a 12 year old up to depict the last days of the Reich. You can imagine the wee lad having his cheek pinched by the palsied hand of the Führer while being awarded an Iron Cross.
Indeed, and the Sturmbannfuehrer's attitude to the uppity locals is also highly authentic.
I think we need to shoot every dog in the country.
Driver rams dog with car to stop attack
A driver used his car to ram a mastiff-type dog as it attacked a dog walker and dragged him into the road.
Video showed the man being set upon by a large brown dog next to a busy road in Sheffield while he held on to his smaller pet, trying to keep it out of reach. As the dog tried to pull him into the road, a passing motorist mounted the pavement and struck the animal with the car bonnet.
Armed police were called to the Handsworth area on Tuesday and eventually managed to restrain the dog and seize it. The man was left with serious injuries to his arm and was taken to hospital. South Yorkshire police said that a 53-year-old man from the city had been arrested on suspicion of having a dangerous dog out of control and remained in custody.
The dog was believed to live at a nearby property and is said to have jumped over a wall before pouncing on the passer-by.
During an exceptionally long drive home yesterday I was being repeatedly told that this was a big deal, that these were radical changes but, frankly, I am not really seeing it. If Ford want to go ahead and build a 100% EV fleet by 2030 they can, of course, do so. All that the extension means is that their rivals will not be allowed to build more than 20% of their fleet as ICE cars for another 5 years: so what? The money available to subsidise new boilers and heat pumps has actually increased. I am not seeing anything material that will change the way most people will live.
What we do see is much cooler rhetoric from the government about Green priorities. This is consistent with Sunak's decision to grant new licences in the North Sea. Sunak is much more aware of the cost of such policies at a time when our economy is struggling for momentum. Given that there was, under Boris, a pretty much cross party consensus on this until now it is possible that this difference of view may result in policy differences from Labour. I don't really think that we are there yet though.
I agree with a lot of this.
Sunak clearly sees Net Zero as a cost not as an opportunity to grow the economy. It’s something to manage and mitigate, not to maximise. He has decided that there is political mileage in signalling this. But in terms of policy, he has done very little to create any dividing lines. You’re not going to swing many votes in extending the opportunity to buy a very limited supply of diesel and petrol cars.
For me, he has therefore given up quite a lot - optimism, hope, green credentials - for not very much. I guess we’ll find out soon enough.
Globally I severely doubt net zero will happen by 2050. Africa has a rising population, China is still pumping out coal stations, India's wasn't phased about using Russian gas, Germany got terrified of nuclear; our own highest court judges pleasure themselves over stopping new nuclear, the USA is going to be congress locked on anything that really cuts its emissions at best heck even the sainted Trudeau knows where his oil is buttered...
I think we need to shoot every dog in the country.
Driver rams dog with car to stop attack
A driver used his car to ram a mastiff-type dog as it attacked a dog walker and dragged him into the road.
Video showed the man being set upon by a large brown dog next to a busy road in Sheffield while he held on to his smaller pet, trying to keep it out of reach. As the dog tried to pull him into the road, a passing motorist mounted the pavement and struck the animal with the car bonnet.
Armed police were called to the Handsworth area on Tuesday and eventually managed to restrain the dog and seize it. The man was left with serious injuries to his arm and was taken to hospital. South Yorkshire police said that a 53-year-old man from the city had been arrested on suspicion of having a dangerous dog out of control and remained in custody.
The dog was believed to live at a nearby property and is said to have jumped over a wall before pouncing on the passer-by.
Also, there's a lot of confected outrage about this - the EU adopted a similar 2035 target six months ago and voices were rather quieter about that.
I suspect there is a rationale in simply not putting the UK at a comparative disadvantage. HMG will have access to investment data.
I went back to the time the EU announced that, your fellow Brexiteers on here were extolling the decision as a Brexit benefit giving the UK a competitive advantage over the sclerotic EU.
But I am glad you are seeing the wisdom of aligning ourselves with the EU, you'll be campaigning for Rejoin in the next referendum, mark my words.
On the flip side it's amusing how it's remainers in the main that are frothing at the mouth over EU alignment on environment policy
(I haven't read the detail) but isn't the 2035 EU policy for all new vehicles to be zero emissions while we will still permit hybrids? The EU rules are worded to allow ICEVs using carbon neutral fuels (e.g. hydrogen with renewable energy production) but in practice that means EVs for cars etc, unless there's some big change. Is our push abck to 2035 matching that, or has the 2030-2035 period of allowing also PHEVs been pushed back to 2035-2040? If the latter, then we're now much weaker on vehicle carbon emissions than the EU (in legislation - in practice PHEVs will likely be pretty niche by 2035 - should be more expensive/complex than pure EV - particularly if there's no EU market)
Also, there's a lot of confected outrage about this - the EU adopted a similar 2035 target six months ago and voices were rather quieter about that.
I suspect there is a rationale in simply not putting the UK at a comparative disadvantage. HMG will have access to investment data.
The argument [edit] for 2030, from the same government, was to diverge from the EU and get in ahead with new investment and new industry ...
The irony is that the argument is irrelevant come July 2025 all cars need to meet the Euro 7 rules which means all ICE cars will need to be hybrid to meet any chance of meeting the criteria...
Also, there's a lot of confected outrage about this - the EU adopted a similar 2035 target six months ago and voices were rather quieter about that.
I suspect there is a rationale in simply not putting the UK at a comparative disadvantage. HMG will have access to investment data.
I went back to the time the EU announced that, your fellow Brexiteers on here were extolling the decision as a Brexit benefit giving the UK a competitive advantage over the sclerotic EU.
But I am glad you are seeing the wisdom of aligning ourselves with the EU, you'll be campaigning for Rejoin in the next referendum, mark my words.
On the flip side it's amusing how it's remainers in the main that are frothing at the mouth over EU alignment on environment policy
Zac Goldsmith is a Remainer?
No, but he's good err friends with Bojo's missed who clearly steered Boris on his outlook/policy decisions on this.
I'm no fan of Goldsmith for various reasons, and he has other reasons than his principles for trying to undermine Sunak. But I think, in fairness, that his environmentalist credentials long predate his acquaintance with Carrie Johnson and that his annoyance at the watering down of policies that he certainly advocated for when in Government is genuine. Alok Sharma too has been critical, in his slightly more measured way, due to the feeling it undemines what he was about in office.
Globally I severely doubt net zero will happen by 2050. Africa has a rising population, China is still pumping out coal stations, India's wasn't phased about using Russian gas, Germany got terrified of nuclear; our own highest court judges pleasure themselves over stopping new nuclear, the USA is going to be congress locked on anything that really cuts its emissions at best heck even the sainted Trudeau knows where his oil is buttered...
Apparently India has only committed to 2070 and China 2060
AI is now generating pretty pictures - that also function as QR codes. And they really work
Is this the first example of “art” that humans simply couldn’t do, no matter how talented?
A human could do this. It would be laborious, to be sure, but the principle is easy enough. It's still quite a leap of imagination to think of doing it, though, so kudos to the person who dreamt it up.
Fair enough. Try this
It still has that quality of “teenage album cover design” but now it’s “Christ what an amazing teenage album cover design”. For me this is even more impressive than the QR code. AI art is leaping ahead - again
How odd. They specifically seem to be Waffen-SS (or worse) rather than the Wehrmacht, too, with the Reich eagle on the left arm, and what looks like the lightning runes on the collar patch and skull on the cap (clearly so in some cases). So the report by the LBC and BBC of SS outfits is quite right. Also see this.
What is also odd is that the ORs seem to be in late war ankle boots and gaiters.
Surprising choice all round when they have the Wehrmacht option if it's just the Stahlhelm, jackboot and Schmeisser MP40 look they want.
Got to respect their commitment to historical accuracy though, they seem to have dressed a 12 year old up to depict the last days of the Reich. You can imagine the wee lad having his cheek pinched by the palsied hand of the Führer while being awarded an Iron Cross.
Indeed, and the Sturmbannfuehrer's attitude to the uppity locals is also highly authentic.
This was mentioned by (I think) @CasinoRoyale a few weeks ago, where people dressed as Naxis turned up at another railway's 40's gala. It also happened at another preserved railway's gala over 20 years ago, so there's probably at least one group of @sshats doing this.
(Sheringham is home to the North Norfolk Railway, who were involved with the gala)
Also, there's a lot of confected outrage about this - the EU adopted a similar 2035 target six months ago and voices were rather quieter about that.
I suspect there is a rationale in simply not putting the UK at a comparative disadvantage. HMG will have access to investment data.
The argument [edit] for 2030, from the same government, was to diverge from the EU and get in ahead with new investment and new industry ...
The irony is that the argument is irrelevant come July 2025 all cars need to meet the Euro 7 rules which means all ICE cars will need to be hybrid to meet any chance of meeting the criteria...
Good morning
Is July 2025 an error - surely you mean 2035
Morning! No, Eek is right - which means he has an excellent point.
Another case for Ms Cyclefree on the BBC this morning; the British servicemen,including National Servicemen, used as ‘Guinea-pigs’ in the nuclear tests in the early and mid 50’s. Chap who married a friend of my sister was involved. He’s had a long series of illnesses.
During an exceptionally long drive home yesterday I was being repeatedly told that this was a big deal, that these were radical changes but, frankly, I am not really seeing it.
In terms of immediate practical effects it is not a big deal. But the Tories turning back into an anti-environment party is a big deal, as a signal it says "Britain's not serious about the environment". And the rubbish about meat taxes and bins is every bit as stupid as Trump saying you need to show ID to buy a loaf of bread.
Sunak is ramping up Tory toxicity for nothing more than perhaps dragging a few more kippers to the polling station to vote Tory.
I'm 99% certain that if Sunak was not an MP and PM he wouldn't vote for this shit.
AI is now generating pretty pictures - that also function as QR codes. And they really work
Is this the first example of “art” that humans simply couldn’t do, no matter how talented?
A human could do this. It would be laborious, to be sure, but the principle is easy enough. It's still quite a leap of imagination to think of doing it, though, so kudos to the person who dreamt it up.
Fair enough. Try this
It still has that quality of “teenage album cover design” but now it’s “Christ what an amazing teenage album cover design”. For me this is even more impressive than the QR code. AI art is leaping ahead - again
Can't argue with that. That's a really wow picture.
Also, there's a lot of confected outrage about this - the EU adopted a similar 2035 target six months ago and voices were rather quieter about that.
I suspect there is a rationale in simply not putting the UK at a comparative disadvantage. HMG will have access to investment data.
The argument [edit] for 2030, from the same government, was to diverge from the EU and get in ahead with new investment and new industry ...
The irony is that the argument is irrelevant come July 2025 all cars need to meet the Euro 7 rules which means all ICE cars will need to be hybrid to meet any chance of meeting the criteria...
Good morning
Is July 2025 an error - surely you mean 2035
Morning! No, Eek is right - which means he has an excellent point.
How odd. They specifically seem to be Waffen-SS (or worse) rather than the Wehrmacht, too, with the Reich eagle on the left arm, and what looks like the lightning runes on the collar patch and skull on the cap (clearly so in some cases). So the report by the LBC and BBC of SS outfits is quite right. Also see this.
What is also odd is that the ORs seem to be in late war ankle boots and gaiters.
Surprising choice all round when they have the Wehrmacht option if it's just the Stahlhelm, jackboot and Schmeisser MP40 look they want.
Got to respect their commitment to historical accuracy though, they seem to have dressed a 12 year old up to depict the last days of the Reich. You can imagine the wee lad having his cheek pinched by the palsied hand of the Führer while being awarded an Iron Cross.
Indeed, and the Sturmbannfuehrer's attitude to the uppity locals is also highly authentic.
This was mentioned by (I think) @CasinoRoyale a few weeks ago, where people dressed as Naxis turned up at another railway's 40's gala. It also happened at another preserved railway's gala over 20 years ago, so there's probably at least one group of @sshats doing this.
(Sheringham is home to the North Norfolk Railway, who were involved with the gala)
Indeed. The slight niggle I have is whether the chaps in field grey reported at any one event are actually in Wehrmacht or Waffen-SS kit - many journos and people can't tell the difference (and tbf as Northern Monkey points out, it wasn't completely clean cut historically). The (presumed, but fairly obvious) intent is rather different. On the one hand, it's providing opposition for the chaps in khaki and olive drab. On the other ... it's all a bit reminiscen t of the Anthony Price novel about Civil War reenactors.
Also, there's a lot of confected outrage about this - the EU adopted a similar 2035 target six months ago and voices were rather quieter about that.
I suspect there is a rationale in simply not putting the UK at a comparative disadvantage. HMG will have access to investment data.
I went back to the time the EU announced that, your fellow Brexiteers on here were extolling the decision as a Brexit benefit giving the UK a competitive advantage over the sclerotic EU.
But I am glad you are seeing the wisdom of aligning ourselves with the EU, you'll be campaigning for Rejoin in the next referendum, mark my words.
On the flip side it's amusing how it's remainers in the main that are frothing at the mouth over EU alignment on environment policy
(I haven't read the detail) but isn't the 2035 EU policy for all new vehicles to be zero emissions while we will still permit hybrids? The EU rules are worded to allow ICEVs using carbon neutral fuels (e.g. hydrogen with renewable energy production) but in practice that means EVs for cars etc, unless there's some big change. Is our push abck to 2035 matching that, or has the 2030-2035 period of allowing also PHEVs been pushed back to 2035-2040? If the latter, then we're now much weaker on vehicle carbon emissions than the EU (in legislation - in practice PHEVs will likely be pretty niche by 2035 - should be more expensive/complex than pure EV - particularly if there's no EU market)
Incidentally, to get hydrogen close to working, it needs a battery to allow regen braking. So all hydrogen powered vehicles end up as hybrids, with a fuel cell generating power.
Also, there's a lot of confected outrage about this - the EU adopted a similar 2035 target six months ago and voices were rather quieter about that.
I suspect there is a rationale in simply not putting the UK at a comparative disadvantage. HMG will have access to investment data.
The argument [edit] for 2030, from the same government, was to diverge from the EU and get in ahead with new investment and new industry ...
The irony is that the argument is irrelevant come July 2025 all cars need to meet the Euro 7 rules which means all ICE cars will need to be hybrid to meet any chance of meeting the criteria...
Good morning
Is July 2025 an error - surely you mean 2035
Morning! No, Eek is right - which means he has an excellent point.
Also, there's a lot of confected outrage about this - the EU adopted a similar 2035 target six months ago and voices were rather quieter about that.
I suspect there is a rationale in simply not putting the UK at a comparative disadvantage. HMG will have access to investment data.
The argument [edit] for 2030, from the same government, was to diverge from the EU and get in ahead with new investment and new industry ...
The irony is that the argument is irrelevant come July 2025 all cars need to meet the Euro 7 rules which means all ICE cars will need to be hybrid to meet any chance of meeting the criteria...
Good morning
Is July 2025 an error - surely you mean 2035
Morning! No, Eek is right - which means he has an excellent point.
How odd. They specifically seem to be Waffen-SS (or worse) rather than the Wehrmacht, too, with the Reich eagle on the left arm, and what looks like the lightning runes on the collar patch and skull on the cap (clearly so in some cases). So the report by the LBC and BBC of SS outfits is quite right. Also see this.
What is also odd is that the ORs seem to be in late war ankle boots and gaiters.
Surprising choice all round when they have the Wehrmacht option if it's just the Stahlhelm, jackboot and Schmeisser MP40 look they want.
Got to respect their commitment to historical accuracy though, they seem to have dressed a 12 year old up to depict the last days of the Reich. You can imagine the wee lad having his cheek pinched by the palsied hand of the Führer while being awarded an Iron Cross.
Also, there's a lot of confected outrage about this - the EU adopted a similar 2035 target six months ago and voices were rather quieter about that.
I suspect there is a rationale in simply not putting the UK at a comparative disadvantage. HMG will have access to investment data.
The argument [edit] for 2030, from the same government, was to diverge from the EU and get in ahead with new investment and new industry ...
The irony is that the argument is irrelevant come July 2025 all cars need to meet the Euro 7 rules which means all ICE cars will need to be hybrid to meet any chance of meeting the criteria...
Good morning
Is July 2025 an error - surely you mean 2035
Morning! No, Eek is right - which means he has an excellent point.
Also, there's a lot of confected outrage about this - the EU adopted a similar 2035 target six months ago and voices were rather quieter about that.
I suspect there is a rationale in simply not putting the UK at a comparative disadvantage. HMG will have access to investment data.
Yes, for all the froth about losing our "leader" status and losing out (why? how?) in "new technologies" Sunak is much more focused on the cost than the opportunities. I suspect he is right to be doubtful about this.
Sunak’s focus on costs rather than opportunities is what led to the RAAC crisis, growing NHS waiting lists, a growing asylum backlog, etc.
Really not seeing how Sunak is responsible for the RAAC crisis.
He is not solely responsible, but he made the situation worse.
I think we need to shoot every dog in the country.
Driver rams dog with car to stop attack
A driver used his car to ram a mastiff-type dog as it attacked a dog walker and dragged him into the road.
Video showed the man being set upon by a large brown dog next to a busy road in Sheffield while he held on to his smaller pet, trying to keep it out of reach. As the dog tried to pull him into the road, a passing motorist mounted the pavement and struck the animal with the car bonnet.
Armed police were called to the Handsworth area on Tuesday and eventually managed to restrain the dog and seize it. The man was left with serious injuries to his arm and was taken to hospital. South Yorkshire police said that a 53-year-old man from the city had been arrested on suspicion of having a dangerous dog out of control and remained in custody.
The dog was believed to live at a nearby property and is said to have jumped over a wall before pouncing on the passer-by.
Also, there's a lot of confected outrage about this - the EU adopted a similar 2035 target six months ago and voices were rather quieter about that.
I suspect there is a rationale in simply not putting the UK at a comparative disadvantage. HMG will have access to investment data.
The argument [edit] for 2030, from the same government, was to diverge from the EU and get in ahead with new investment and new industry ...
The irony is that the argument is irrelevant come July 2025 all cars need to meet the Euro 7 rules which means all ICE cars will need to be hybrid to meet any chance of meeting the criteria...
Good morning
Is July 2025 an error - surely you mean 2035
Morning! No, Eek is right - which means he has an excellent point.
The current UK market share of 100% ICE passenger cars is now 40%.
Does anybody want to hazard a guess at what it will be in 7 years?
This measure makes Sunak look like a fucking idiot to everbody except those who didn't understand the policy in the first place. Which I suppose is the point.
The UK share of ICE-only cars is 40%?
That means there’s 16m ICE-only cars, and 24m hybrid and electric cars?
Or do you mean the share of *NEW* ICE-only cars is only 40%?
August from the SMMT:
So conventionally fueled vehicles are already less than half the market, and shrinking.
Though as I understood it is only EV and PHEV vehicles that were exempt from the 2030 ban, not all hybrids, so 27.8% of August sales meet the old 2030 target.
It is true that conventionally fueled vehicles are less than half the market and shrinking, but private buyers are still reluctant to make the switch. The growth in non-ICE cars is driven by fleet sales. Also, as you say, it isn't just ICE cars that would be banned. New cars that meet the target are a minority of sales.
I think we need to shoot every dog in the country.
Driver rams dog with car to stop attack
A driver used his car to ram a mastiff-type dog as it attacked a dog walker and dragged him into the road.
Video showed the man being set upon by a large brown dog next to a busy road in Sheffield while he held on to his smaller pet, trying to keep it out of reach. As the dog tried to pull him into the road, a passing motorist mounted the pavement and struck the animal with the car bonnet.
Armed police were called to the Handsworth area on Tuesday and eventually managed to restrain the dog and seize it. The man was left with serious injuries to his arm and was taken to hospital. South Yorkshire police said that a 53-year-old man from the city had been arrested on suspicion of having a dangerous dog out of control and remained in custody.
The dog was believed to live at a nearby property and is said to have jumped over a wall before pouncing on the passer-by.
Also, there's a lot of confected outrage about this - the EU adopted a similar 2035 target six months ago and voices were rather quieter about that.
I suspect there is a rationale in simply not putting the UK at a comparative disadvantage. HMG will have access to investment data.
Yes, for all the froth about losing our "leader" status and losing out (why? how?) in "new technologies" Sunak is much more focused on the cost than the opportunities. I suspect he is right to be doubtful about this.
Sunak’s focus on costs rather than opportunities is what led to the RAAC crisis, growing NHS waiting lists, a growing asylum backlog, etc.
Really not seeing how Sunak is responsible for the RAAC crisis.
He is not solely responsible, but he made the situation worse.
If you want to pour endless billions into the NHS then it has to come from somewhere.
If you want people to be paid to stay at home then it has to come from somewhere.
I wonder how many of the people now complaining about not enough spending demanded ever more covid restrictions because "you can't put a price on lives".
The current UK market share of 100% ICE passenger cars is now 40%.
Does anybody want to hazard a guess at what it will be in 7 years?
This measure makes Sunak look like a fucking idiot to everbody except those who didn't understand the policy in the first place. Which I suppose is the point.
The UK share of ICE-only cars is 40%?
That means there’s 16m ICE-only cars, and 24m hybrid and electric cars?
Or do you mean the share of *NEW* ICE-only cars is only 40%?
August from the SMMT:
So conventionally fueled vehicles are already less than half the market, and shrinking.
Though as I understood it is only EV and PHEV vehicles that were exempt from the 2030 ban, not all hybrids, so 27.8% of August sales meet the old 2030 target.
It is true that conventionally fueled vehicles are less than half the market and shrinking, but private buyers are still reluctant to make the switch. The growth in non-ICE cars is driven by fleet sales. Also, as you say, it isn't just ICE cars that would be banned. New cars that meet the target are a minority of sales.
You make an interesting point that EV sales are being driven by fleet sales
Why is Caroline Dineage MP trending in the US overnight?
I’m not sure what to think of this one, apparently genuine letter written to Rumble’s CEO in the US, from the head of the Culture, Media, and Sport Committee, coming very close to suggesting that Rumble should be demonetising Russell Brand - not for anything he’s posted on their site, but just because he’s a bad person.
The Rumble CEO published the letter, and a quite forthright reply about freedom of speech.
It's not just the alt-right. Freedom of speech matters to Americans, whereas here it is just a slogan wheeled out from time to time when convenient in the land of draconian libel laws, super-injunctions and now this. First Amendment and all that.
Oh indeed, freedom of speech is quite literally written in their Constitution, and is taken much more seriously over there by everyone.
There’s a running theme on this subject through a lot of American discussion, mainly but not exclusively on the right and among libertarians, that social media platforms are trying to censor certain viewpoints ahead of the election next year.
Youtube especially is in the firing line, with their seemingly arbitrary demonetisation, shadow banning, and banning of accounts with little recourse. It was said to be one of the reasons behind Elon Musk’s purchase of Twitter, and documents released by that company showed conversations with governments - including the US government - around certain specific accounts, as Rumble have released today.
Rumble was deliberately set up to be resistant to censorship, hosting their own servers and payment processing, and designed as web-first rather than app-first. Freedom of speech is their philosophy.
Obviously, it goes without saying that the likes of Russell Brand and Andrew Tate are horrible human beings, but that doesn’t mean they can’t earn a living while they still have their liberty.
The Constitutional protection around free speech applies to government action. It has no impact on what a social media company can do. It does not apply to the actions of Rumble. Rumble routinely blocks material from its platform.
Also, there's a lot of confected outrage about this - the EU adopted a similar 2035 target six months ago and voices were rather quieter about that.
I suspect there is a rationale in simply not putting the UK at a comparative disadvantage. HMG will have access to investment data.
Yes, for all the froth about losing our "leader" status and losing out (why? how?) in "new technologies" Sunak is much more focused on the cost than the opportunities. I suspect he is right to be doubtful about this.
Sunak’s focus on costs rather than opportunities is what led to the RAAC crisis, growing NHS waiting lists, a growing asylum backlog, etc.
Really not seeing how Sunak is responsible for the RAAC crisis.
Chronic underinvestment over a decade? If only we had politicians more interested in maths who could explain to him that repairing 50 schools per year out of a stock of 22,000 only works if we build them to last 440 years without significant repairs.
Unlike Cromer, Sheringham is a really nice resort. I'm off there this weekend, and will make sure I buy some extra bagels whilst there.
Sheringham is indeed pleasant, with more than an element of Walmington on Sea about it. It's no surprise they decided to have a 1940s festival as it's very on brand... as is the fact they commendably did a Captain Mainwaring on the idiots who tried to spoil it.
Cromer, like many seaside towns around the UK, jumped all in on the mass holiday resort bandwagon, got absolutely hammered when the package holiday came in, and has never really recovered. Sheringham has always had a tourist trade, but smaller scale and sold as more genteel, so they weren't hit nearly as hard.
It's a vicious circle where voters are goaded to make stupid choices that make the country poorer and the voters more angry and cynical and open to further goading... And then one day you wake up and realise you've become Argentina. And like Argentina, people who can see through this BS and know where their country is heading will leave, which makes the remaining population easier to manipulate. It's a very dangerous game the Tories are playing, and to what end?
Mark Carney gave a speech recently where he noted that instead of "Singapore on Thames" as promised by the Brexiteers, Truss delivered "Argentina on the Chanel" instead.
At least we’ll smell nice.
If we’re ‘Argentina on the Channel’ will we be able to make some decent red wine?
Why is Caroline Dineage MP trending in the US overnight?
I’m not sure what to think of this one, apparently genuine letter written to Rumble’s CEO in the US, from the head of the Culture, Media, and Sport Committee, coming very close to suggesting that Rumble should be demonetising Russell Brand - not for anything he’s posted on their site, but just because he’s a bad person.
The Rumble CEO published the letter, and a quite forthright reply about freedom of speech.
It's not just the alt-right. Freedom of speech matters to Americans, whereas here it is just a slogan wheeled out from time to time when convenient in the land of draconian libel laws, super-injunctions and now this. First Amendment and all that.
Oh indeed, freedom of speech is quite literally written in their Constitution, and is taken much more seriously over there by everyone.
There’s a running theme on this subject through a lot of American discussion, mainly but not exclusively on the right and among libertarians, that social media platforms are trying to censor certain viewpoints ahead of the election next year.
Youtube especially is in the firing line, with their seemingly arbitrary demonetisation, shadow banning, and banning of accounts with little recourse. It was said to be one of the reasons behind Elon Musk’s purchase of Twitter, and documents released by that company showed conversations with governments - including the US government - around certain specific accounts, as Rumble have released today.
Rumble was deliberately set up to be resistant to censorship, hosting their own servers and payment processing, and designed as web-first rather than app-first. Freedom of speech is their philosophy.
Obviously, it goes without saying that the likes of Russell Brand and Andrew Tate are horrible human beings, but that doesn’t mean they can’t earn a living while they still have their liberty.
The Constitutional protection around free speech applies to government action. It has no impact on what a social media company can do. It does not apply to the actions of Rumble. Rumble routinely blocks material from its platform.
I think we need to shoot every dog in the country.
Driver rams dog with car to stop attack
A driver used his car to ram a mastiff-type dog as it attacked a dog walker and dragged him into the road.
Video showed the man being set upon by a large brown dog next to a busy road in Sheffield while he held on to his smaller pet, trying to keep it out of reach. As the dog tried to pull him into the road, a passing motorist mounted the pavement and struck the animal with the car bonnet.
Armed police were called to the Handsworth area on Tuesday and eventually managed to restrain the dog and seize it. The man was left with serious injuries to his arm and was taken to hospital. South Yorkshire police said that a 53-year-old man from the city had been arrested on suspicion of having a dangerous dog out of control and remained in custody.
The dog was believed to live at a nearby property and is said to have jumped over a wall before pouncing on the passer-by.
The current UK market share of 100% ICE passenger cars is now 40%.
Does anybody want to hazard a guess at what it will be in 7 years?
This measure makes Sunak look like a fucking idiot to everbody except those who didn't understand the policy in the first place. Which I suppose is the point.
The UK share of ICE-only cars is 40%?
That means there’s 16m ICE-only cars, and 24m hybrid and electric cars?
Or do you mean the share of *NEW* ICE-only cars is only 40%?
August from the SMMT:
So conventionally fueled vehicles are already less than half the market, and shrinking.
Though as I understood it is only EV and PHEV vehicles that were exempt from the 2030 ban, not all hybrids, so 27.8% of August sales meet the old 2030 target.
It is true that conventionally fueled vehicles are less than half the market and shrinking, but private buyers are still reluctant to make the switch. The growth in non-ICE cars is driven by fleet sales. Also, as you say, it isn't just ICE cars that would be banned. New cars that meet the target are a minority of sales.
You make an interesting point that EV sales are being driven by fleet sales
Unlike Cromer, Sheringham is a really nice resort. I'm off there this weekend, and will make sure I buy some extra bagels whilst there.
Sheringham is indeed pleasant, with more than an element of Walmington on Sea about it. It's no surprise they decided to have a 1940s festival as it's very on brand... as is the fact they commendably did a Captain Mainwaring on the idiots who tried to spoil it.
Cromer, like many seaside towns around the UK, jumped all in on the mass holiday resort bandwagon, got absolutely hammered when the package holiday came in, and has never really recovered. Sheringham has always had a tourist trade, but smaller scale and sold as more genteel, so they weren't hit nearly as hard.
Funny word genteel, only seen in one context which is classy old resorts.
During an exceptionally long drive home yesterday I was being repeatedly told that this was a big deal, that these were radical changes but, frankly, I am not really seeing it.
In terms of immediate practical effects it is not a big deal. But the Tories turning back into an anti-environment party is a big deal, as a signal it says "Britain's not serious about the environment". And the rubbish about meat taxes and bins is every bit as stupid as Trump saying you need to show ID to buy a loaf of bread.
Sunak is ramping up Tory toxicity for nothing more than perhaps dragging a few more kippers to the polling station to vote Tory.
I'm 99% certain that if Sunak was not an MP and PM he wouldn't vote for this shit.
I wonder how many people frothing about this will be checking the environmental soundness of their purchases, sourcing local food, refusing to fly ever again etc.
Also, there's a lot of confected outrage about this - the EU adopted a similar 2035 target six months ago and voices were rather quieter about that.
I suspect there is a rationale in simply not putting the UK at a comparative disadvantage. HMG will have access to investment data.
I went back to the time the EU announced that, your fellow Brexiteers on here were extolling the decision as a Brexit benefit giving the UK a competitive advantage over the sclerotic EU.
But I am glad you are seeing the wisdom of aligning ourselves with the EU, you'll be campaigning for Rejoin in the next referendum, mark my words.
On the flip side it's amusing how it's remainers in the main that are frothing at the mouth over EU alignment on environment policy
I shall admit I don't have the technical or industry knowledge to really know whether 2030 or 2035 is a good thing or not. I suspect it makes less difference to both household finances and the environment than either "side" would like to admit.
In terms of politics however, it is a massive sign of weakness to do this two days after your laughing stock predecessor insists you do it.
And in terms of UK investment and preventing our managed decline, it is a massive error and another sign of weakness to commit to a major car manufacturer on a long term framework one week and then u-turn straight away.
Also, there's a lot of confected outrage about this - the EU adopted a similar 2035 target six months ago and voices were rather quieter about that.
I suspect there is a rationale in simply not putting the UK at a comparative disadvantage. HMG will have access to investment data.
The argument [edit] for 2030, from the same government, was to diverge from the EU and get in ahead with new investment and new industry ...
The irony is that the argument is irrelevant come July 2025 all cars need to meet the Euro 7 rules which means all ICE cars will need to be hybrid to meet any chance of meeting the criteria...
Is that really the case?
Looks to me like diesel sees a big change in Euro 7, since diesels used to have a higher limit than petrol (and were cheating to reach that higher limit) but the petrol emissions limit for NOx look completely unchanged between Euro 6 and Euro 7.
The CO2 target is changing, but not all petrol vehicles were at the old target already.
Comments
Well done the people of Sheringham.
I have changed my mind overnight, originally having thought Sunak was looking weak and chaotic. Because I keep hearing newsreaders repeating the implication that everyone was going to be forced to scrap their car / boiler in 2030. If that’s the (lie) story then people will be all for the changes.
There’s also the implication, somehow, as if through muscle memory, that the policies being scrapped were Labour ones, or cooked up by woke civil servants. Not hard core Tory policy until yesterday, The new Tory government stepping in to save hard working people from the woke blob.
So I think whilst this won’t lead to a surge it will arrest Sunak’s decline and get him back a couple of percentage points from Refuk.
Labour need to wrest the narrative back to crumbling schools and hospitals, waiting lists, empty high streets and economic sclerosis.
Sunak has clearly staked his ground as anti-green and, given these policies was thought up on the fly, we can only assume if he was to be elected for another five years he would further erode our commitment to decarbonisation.
15 years' of government that started with the Tories changing their logo to a green tree end with them ditching their own policies on the environment.
We'll see whether it has any effect in firming up the core Tory vote vs alienating people further.
Firstly he gets a lot of public attention as we see from today’s front pages. Secondly what he’s putting forward is quite novel and extremely controversial.
On that basis there would have been some sense in an announcement by Sunak that he was going to run naked down Whitehall and jump in the Thames.
Driver rams dog with car to stop attack
A driver used his car to ram a mastiff-type dog as it attacked a dog walker and dragged him into the road.
Video showed the man being set upon by a large brown dog next to a busy road in Sheffield while he held on to his smaller pet, trying to keep it out of reach. As the dog tried to pull him into the road, a passing motorist mounted the pavement and struck the animal with the car bonnet.
Armed police were called to the Handsworth area on Tuesday and eventually managed to restrain the dog and seize it. The man was left with serious injuries to his arm and was taken to hospital. South Yorkshire police said that a 53-year-old man from the city had been arrested on suspicion of having a dangerous dog out of control and remained in custody.
The dog was believed to live at a nearby property and is said to have jumped over a wall before pouncing on the passer-by.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/driver-rams-dog-with-car-to-stop-attack-xr57cm9pg
or voting Reform. The objective is to save as many Tory seats as possible so they have a chance to rebuild in opposition.
The strategy and policy will have been carefully polled and focus grouped - the Tories have plenty of money to do this - so expect more of it.
He said: “I’ve complained about the dog loads of times to the police but they’ve never done anything about it.”
What is also odd is that the ORs seem to be in late war ankle boots and gaiters.
Surprising choice all round when they have the Wehrmacht option if it's just the Stahlhelm, jackboot and Schmeisser MP40 look they want.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-66856678
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/09/19/men-in-frightening-nazi-uniforms-clash-with-locals-at-1940s/
There were clear dividing lines between parties in the US in 2016 and 2020, in the UK in 2019, and in France in 2022. Was that a good thing? Were they elections that provided more light or more heat?
I'd agree that, where parties have important areas of disagreement as to the way forward, that's fine and let's have a good debate about those differences. But clear dividing lines for their own sake aren't a particularly good thing.
I suspect there is a rationale in simply not putting the UK at a comparative disadvantage. HMG will have access to investment data.
What we do see is much cooler rhetoric from the government about Green priorities. This is consistent with Sunak's decision to grant new licences in the North Sea. Sunak is much more aware of the cost of such policies at a time when our economy is struggling for momentum. Given that there was, under Boris, a pretty much cross party consensus on this until now it is possible that this difference of view may result in policy differences from Labour. I don't really think that we are there yet though.
But I am glad you are seeing the wisdom of aligning ourselves with the EU, you'll be campaigning for Rejoin in the next referendum, mark my words.
It's certainly achieved that.
There are two sides of the equation here and HMG seems to think it can happen just by kicking the private sector with a target on the latter.
Rishi Sunak’s new net-zero plan is unlikely to win back many wavering Conservative voters, polling and focus groups seen in Downing Street before the prime minister’s announcement suggest.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/593ccb44-57fe-11ee-9ad7-7384b2f230c5?shareToken=8e523ae4b7003de138c1148e646704cf
It might shore up the Reform flank, but at what cost on the Teal-curious side?
Actually, scrub that. How about is the actual policy the right thing to do? As opposed to the made up dross surrounding it?
🚨NEW Westminster Voting Intention
📈20pt Labour lead - largest since Jan
🌹Lab 46 (+1)
🌳Con 26 (-3)
🔶LD 12 (+2)
➡️Reform 5 (-1)
🌍Green 4 (+1)
🎗️SNP 3 (=)
⬜️Other 5 (=)
2,255 UK adults, 15-17 Sept
(chg 1-3 Sept)
https://twitter.com/Savanta_UK/status/1704759869147119869
THough to be really realistic they will have been evicting some locals from their cottages at gunpoint and sleeping in the beds with their boots on.
The trade off regarding environmental policies is a genuine one. The specifics of this policy are a bit pointless - how many people will buy a new ICE car between 2031 and 2035? - but it leaves the public with one party making clear they want to drag their heels on the issue.
That creates a distinct policy difference Vs Labour and Lib Dems who will take action sooner, which is a positive reason to vote for them.
Policy choices in other jurisdictions are less well known here for obvious reasons. There are a thousand things happening today in other parts of the world that you would be furious about if they happened here, and you comment on almost none of it. That doesn't mean if you do comment on something similar in the UK that your feelings are "confected".
Rishi Sunak refused to properly fund a school rebuilding programme when he was chancellor, despite officials presenting evidence that there was “a critical risk to life” from crumbling concrete panels, the Department for Education’s former head civil servant has said.
After the department told Sunak’s Treasury that there was a need to rebuild 300 to 400 schools a year in England, he gave funding for only 100, which was then halved to 50, said Jonathan Slater, the permanent secretary of the department from 2016 to 2020.
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2023/sep/04/england-crumbling-schools-rishi-sunak-repairs-civil-servant
Edit: TSE has done it, with reference.
So politically you can see why Sunak did it
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2023/09/20/6d4f1/1
https://x.com/emmanuelmacron/status/1704554120420458775?s=46
As Agnes Poirier commented it’s proper weird to hear people shouting “vive le roi” in the streets of Paris.
Is this the first example of “art” that humans simply couldn’t do, no matter how talented?
Good Morning everybody!
He's not thought this through, has he?
And by not consulting other ministers, he's not got a plan to turn his press conference into reality.
Has he?
It's still quite a leap of imagination to think of doing it, though, so kudos to the person who dreamt it up.
I can kind of understand re-enactors doing the Wehrmacht thing - historical understanding and all that - but even that I find slightly questionable. The notion of the 'clean Wehrmacht' is long-discredited. But SS is taking it to a whole different level.
Sunak clearly sees Net Zero as a cost not as an opportunity to grow the economy. It’s something to manage and mitigate, not to maximise. He has decided that there is political mileage in signalling this. But in terms of policy, he has done very little to create any dividing lines. You’re not going to swing many votes in extending the opportunity to buy a very limited supply of diesel and petrol cars.
For me, he has therefore given up quite a lot - optimism, hope, green credentials - for not very much. I guess we’ll find out soon enough.
Is July 2025 an error - surely you mean 2035
It still has that quality of “teenage album cover design” but now it’s “Christ what an amazing teenage album cover design”. For me this is even more impressive than the QR code. AI art is leaping ahead - again
(Sheringham is home to the North Norfolk Railway, who were involved with the gala)
https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/euro-7-help-or-hindrance-to-ev-adoption/
Sunak is ramping up Tory toxicity for nothing more than perhaps dragging a few more kippers to the polling station to vote Tory.
I'm 99% certain that if Sunak was not an MP and PM he wouldn't vote for this shit.
"Poland stops supplying weapons to Ukraine as grain row escalates - BBC News" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66873495
Surely not all cars as that would be impossible to achieve
Is that referring only to new ICE cars
Existing cars can be caught by local regulations such as ULEZ, of course.
https://www.publicfinance.co.uk/news/2023/09/sunak-cut-school-capital-funding-despite-raac-safety-concerns
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-09-05/sunak-blocked-bid-to-rebuild-crumbling-uk-schools-minister-says
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/sep/13/rishi-sunak-blocked-rebuild-of-hospitals-with-crumbling-concrete
That looks very much like an XL Bully. The same relentless behaviour
How long is our pathetic government going to wait? These dogs need to be muzzled NOW, at the very least
From a few years back: https://time.com/5280769/dog-attack-dachshund-woman-oklahoma-death/
If you want people to be paid to stay at home then it has to come from somewhere.
I wonder how many of the people now complaining about not enough spending demanded ever more covid restrictions because "you can't put a price on lives".
Do you know the percentage v private sales?
Cromer, like many seaside towns around the UK, jumped all in on the mass holiday resort bandwagon, got absolutely hammered when the package holiday came in, and has never really recovered. Sheringham has always had a tourist trade, but smaller scale and sold as more genteel, so they weren't hit nearly as hard.
In terms of politics however, it is a massive sign of weakness to do this two days after your laughing stock predecessor insists you do it.
And in terms of UK investment and preventing our managed decline, it is a massive error and another sign of weakness to commit to a major car manufacturer on a long term framework one week and then u-turn straight away.
Looks to me like diesel sees a big change in Euro 7, since diesels used to have a higher limit than petrol (and were cheating to reach that higher limit) but the petrol emissions limit for NOx look completely unchanged between Euro 6 and Euro 7.
The CO2 target is changing, but not all petrol vehicles were at the old target already.
Euro 7 looks like a bit of a damp squib to me.