Just finished another eleven hour shift, so up to sixty hours hours since the Bank Holiday. I think I’ll get to seventy-five for the week after working tomorrow and Monday
I popped into Waitrose on the way home and got cheap dinner (a minted pea and bacon quiche for £1.39!). On my way in, I saw Peter Mandelson at the checkout (buying sushi and what looked like stir fry ingredients). I’ve known for years that he lives nearby, but it’s the first time I’ve seen him
You should have stolen his place in the queue, after asking him if he knew who you are?
That would have been quite some manoeuvre given I didn't yet have shopping and there was an empty self checkout next to the one he was using!
I know quite a few people that have met him socially, or served him in shops, or worked at his place, and they've all liked him. Even though most of them haven't liked his politics
I’ve met him and he seemed perfectly charming. I never did understand the loathing he induced
Many who met hitler socially thought he was charming
I think not. Talked relentlessly. Never listened. Bad breath too.
Not true. The earlier, younger Hitler was apparently quite charming. He was good at seducing upper class German ladies into donating money. Got invited to posh parties: as the amusing firebrand plebiean radical who nonetheless knew a lot about opera and art
That is not the impression Cyril Coles (former senior MI officer in Germany who knew both Conrad Adenauer and Hitler during the 1920s) gave in his fictionalised memoirs.
He portrayed Hitler as a boorish, lightweight misogynist, summed up by one character commenting, with a laugh, 'your saviour of Germany is quite the funniest [as in, weirdest] little man I've ever met.'
He might not have been to the taste of aristo Brits in 20s Germany (except, err, the Mitfords, and some of the royals), but he was clearly good at finding and tickling the fash clitori of rich and pwoerful men and women
if he was this tedious, monotonous, misogynistic boor - as portrayed - then he would have got precisely nowhere. Instead he went from prole Austrian corporal to radical urban hero to supreme (and widely adored, at first) national leader. That does not happen by sheer accident
Warning! Hitler fanboi alert! Hitler fanboi alert!
I'm going to support Leon on this one.
First, although he's got some seriously dodgy right-wing tendencies, there's zero evidence Leon is a fan of Hitler. Indeed if you're a sucker for all that right-wing crap you ought to hate Hitler because he did the hard-right cause immeasurable damage.
Second, and most important, there is surely no doubt that Hitler was a mesmerising, charismatic speaker. How else could such a physically unprepossessing, shallow-thinker have seduced an entire nation?
Didn't mesmerise an entire nation. The NSDAP, if I recall rightly, did worse than the Remainers in the referendum, and I haven't seen you claiming that the Remainers won Brexitref.
Hardly comprable! But I suppose it is somewhat of a comfort to think that Remain was a bit more popular than NSDAP.
Even Remain beat Trump!
Remain got 48.1% in 2016, Trump only got 46.9% in 2020!
I don't think Sunak is anything like such a flawed character as Boris Johnson but in terms of political electability he is far worse. He is not (yet) the liability that Liz Truss was but he is extraordinarily tone deaf to where people are at. And he becomes petulant when questioned: how dare any minion be so rude as to doubt his truth?
I have Conservative friends who really dislike him and that's not a good sign.
Good evening
Sunak is the best the conservatives have got, despite his flaws, and the mountain that the toxic legacy of Johnson and the diabolical Truss left him is a very tall order to overcome
If tonight's poll by Opinium in the Guardian is anything to go by neither Sunak or Starmer are setting the narrative alight with only 27% and 23% respectively seeing Starmer better than Sunak as PM
I expect the conservatives to pay a price at the next GE, but even Starmer's most avid fans must accept he is hardly inspiring the nation
Other pollsters also do best PM and Opinium are by far the stingiest in Starmer’s lead. Of other pollsters have recently polled this, Starmer leads Sunak 44-34 (R&W) and 37-28 (We Think) on the "better PM" question. Even in unliked outgoing governments it’s supposed to be hard for a PM to fall so far behind on this measure.
No, Sunak is not “the best the Conservatives have got” not by any measure. You are dangerously misreading this situation. Sunak is now out of touch with the public, not because he is filthy rich but because his politics and that of the government he leads has been revealed to be too dry and right wing for the UK today. He promises, over promises, and doesn’t deliver. Which makes every new promise, vow and policy, worthless. The result is voters are no longer listening to him selectively quoting and talking up we have never had it so good, and they won’t all they way up to voting day.
The scale of the Tory catastrophe at the next General Election does not rest at all on Starmer and his policy’s “inspiring the nation”, it will be based on the breadth and depth of voters no longer listening to the Conservatives, making the weeks of the election campaign all about how sleazy, useless, out of touch and dangerous the Tory Party are.
The best hope for the Conservatives now is to change these faces and voices at the top of the government to more everyday, grounded and in touch fresh faces, in order for a more aspirational message that has more broader appeal across more voters to be listened to and considered.
Hunt and Sunak cannot deliver that message, because they are no longer listened to. From here the Conservatives need to be listened to again, to save as many seats as they can. That’s why Sunak, Hunt and Braverman have to go.
I think that Sunak probably is the best person for the job, which is to lose with enough dignity that the Tories can regroup.
Funnily enough, everyone who dislikes the Tories wants Sunak to stay and 'lose with dignity' - God forbid the Tories should actually put a winner in place, nothing to upset the handover.
Who is left as a winner? Boris could have won a by-election, the fact some nobody won it shows he probably could have, and potentially be on hand at least, but they have no winners to pick from.
Though at this point they'd be more than happy if they could put May in and repeat 2017.
I don't know if anyone could win from here, but they could at least be trying to do so. Sunak doesn't seem to have any ambitions to try to reach out to more people, just a pure core vote strategy.
I'll repost my exercise from earlier this week. Curious how others would rate potential alternative leaders as potentially better or worse than Sunak.
Tory MPs who might be better than Sunak, in my personal view:
Not put down Javid or Wallace as they're standing down.
Mogg would fire up the Tory core vote much like Corbyn did for the Labour core vote, even if they both turned off centrists.
The worst leaders, electorally at least, are often those who both turn off centrists and fail to fire up the base eg Ed Miliband in 2015 or Hague in 2001
If the Tories want to become electable again, they need to do what Labour have done after replacing Corbyn. They need to marginalise their extremists, including the ERG, and, if necessary remove them from the party and not be so frightened of Reform.
We are only in 2009 in terms of getting to Starmer if you want the Labour comparison. On that basis Sunak is Brown and hasn't even lost power and a general election yet!
Though for all his faults Corbyn made enough gains to get a hung parliament in 2017 and got a higher voteshare in 2017 and 2019 than either Brown did in 2010 or Ed Miliband did in 2015
Taking that approach - that Sunak is Brown (or Major), we are due to have someone half presentable, more on the wings than the predecessor but not popular enough to win back votes yet, a Hague or Ed. So perhaps someone like Cleverly. Then they go completely batshit and elect an IDS/Corbyn (Mogg). Then they turn sensible with a Starmer/Howard. Before the charismatic unifier (but Labour appear not to need this step to win).
More Barclay for Hague or Ed M, then if they also lose then yes the membership go full pure ideologue for Mogg as their Corbyn.
Corbyn lost twice which is why Starmer got more of a chance than Howard on a time for change basis
I note than @JamesKelly has now abandoned Scottish political blogging. It's a shame, as he was rather good within that tiny genre, and also sane and polite, in general (not always the case in online indy Scotch politics)
For me it says Sindy is over for ANOTHER generation. 20 years. This will have ramifications for British politics as Scots focus once again on Westminster, in the absence of indy to drive them, as an imminent reality
You note wrong, James is soldiering on meantime. I guess that means Sindy is not over for ANOTHER generation. I suspect having Alba as the vehicle for his aspirations is taking its toll on his positivity.
Good luck to him (honestly). He's a sincere man fighting for a genuine cause (however much I disagree). He is also civil, intelligent and interesting when you get beyond indy (but he's also candid about indy)
However his latest blogpost is not exactly full of hope for your cause
"The real problem we face now, though, is not that the Yes vote isn't high enough but that the SNP vote isn't high enough. A huge Yes vote is devoid of all value if there aren't going to be enough pro-independence elected politicians to put the people's wishes into action. Strictly in terms of party political voting intentions we're in a weaker position than we've been at any time for around a decade. Rather than everything suddenly going from wrong to right, as Given and Heather would have you believe, the events of 2023 have at dizzying speed taken the SNP from being in a commanding position to being on the ropes and trying to find a way of fighting back.
"Worse still, the independence movement is not starting to resemble the healthy state it was in back in 2014, as Given and Heather claim, but in fact is more demoralised than it's been since 2014 due to Nicola Sturgeon suddenly nipping away without having kept her promises, the lies about SNP membership numbers, the poor leadership of Humza Yousaf, and the essentially rigged election process which installed him."
Fairly bleak
No Sindy referendum til the late 2030s, is now my guess .
Well, that's refreshing, a football player actually acknowledging a decision that had it been against them they'd have been angry about, rather than bullshitting that they totally agreed on this occasion only.
"It was offside," admitted Haaland in an interview with beIN SPORTS after full-time. "I feel bad for them - I would be fuming after this as well. It must be a horrible feeling." https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66698436
For all those among you complaining about cancellation, this is what it really looks like:
"...A Saudi court has sentenced a retired teacher to death for criticising the ruling family in messages to his nine social media followers. According to Human Rights Watch, 54-year-old Mohammed al-Ghamdi was sentenced to death on July 10 for various offences related to his activity on YouTube and X, formerly known as Twitter. The ruling may be the first death sentence for social media posts..." Full Story: https://ground.news/article/befc502b-4b13-4a8c-b450-7a97542f0d76 See also: https://www.youtube.com/post/Ugkxbq47N9yYk-BB8eq5zYVQBUIJmLAsTpPg
Just finished another eleven hour shift, so up to sixty hours hours since the Bank Holiday. I think I’ll get to seventy-five for the week after working tomorrow and Monday
I popped into Waitrose on the way home and got cheap dinner (a minted pea and bacon quiche for £1.39!). On my way in, I saw Peter Mandelson at the checkout (buying sushi and what looked like stir fry ingredients). I’ve known for years that he lives nearby, but it’s the first time I’ve seen him
You should have stolen his place in the queue, after asking him if he knew who you are?
That would have been quite some manoeuvre given I didn't yet have shopping and there was an empty self checkout next to the one he was using!
I know quite a few people that have met him socially, or served him in shops, or worked at his place, and they've all liked him. Even though most of them haven't liked his politics
I’ve met him and he seemed perfectly charming. I never did understand the loathing he induced
Many who met hitler socially thought he was charming
I think not. Talked relentlessly. Never listened. Bad breath too.
Not true. The earlier, younger Hitler was apparently quite charming. He was good at seducing upper class German ladies into donating money. Got invited to posh parties: as the amusing firebrand plebiean radical who nonetheless knew a lot about opera and art
That is not the impression Cyril Coles (former senior MI officer in Germany who knew both Conrad Adenauer and Hitler during the 1920s) gave in his fictionalised memoirs.
He portrayed Hitler as a boorish, lightweight misogynist, summed up by one character commenting, with a laugh, 'your saviour of Germany is quite the funniest [as in, weirdest] little man I've ever met.'
Leon's post was a little too homo-erotic for my conservative tastes.
Just finished another eleven hour shift, so up to sixty hours hours since the Bank Holiday. I think I’ll get to seventy-five for the week after working tomorrow and Monday
I popped into Waitrose on the way home and got cheap dinner (a minted pea and bacon quiche for £1.39!). On my way in, I saw Peter Mandelson at the checkout (buying sushi and what looked like stir fry ingredients). I’ve known for years that he lives nearby, but it’s the first time I’ve seen him
You should have stolen his place in the queue, after asking him if he knew who you are?
That would have been quite some manoeuvre given I didn't yet have shopping and there was an empty self checkout next to the one he was using!
I know quite a few people that have met him socially, or served him in shops, or worked at his place, and they've all liked him. Even though most of them haven't liked his politics
I’ve met him and he seemed perfectly charming. I never did understand the loathing he induced
Many who met hitler socially thought he was charming
I think not. Talked relentlessly. Never listened. Bad breath too.
Not true. The earlier, younger Hitler was apparently quite charming. He was good at seducing upper class German ladies into donating money. Got invited to posh parties: as the amusing firebrand plebiean radical who nonetheless knew a lot about opera and art
That is not the impression Cyril Coles (former senior MI officer in Germany who knew both Conrad Adenauer and Hitler during the 1920s) gave in his fictionalised memoirs.
He portrayed Hitler as a boorish, lightweight misogynist, summed up by one character commenting, with a laugh, 'your saviour of Germany is quite the funniest [as in, weirdest] little man I've ever met.'
He might not have been to the taste of aristo Brits in 20s Germany (except, err, the Mitfords, and some of the royals), but he was clearly good at finding and tickling the fash clitori of rich and pwoerful men and women
if he was this tedious, monotonous, misogynistic boor - as portrayed - then he would have got precisely nowhere. Instead he went from prole Austrian corporal to radical urban hero to supreme (and widely adored, at first) national leader. That does not happen by sheer accident
Warning! Hitler fanboi alert! Hitler fanboi alert!
I'm going to support Leon on this one.
First, although he's got some seriously dodgy right-wing tendencies, there's zero evidence Leon is a fan of Hitler. Indeed if you're a sucker for all that right-wing crap you ought to hate Hitler because he did the hard-right cause immeasurable damage.
Second, and most important, there is surely no doubt that Hitler was a mesmerising, charismatic speaker. How else could such a physically unprepossessing, shallow-thinker have seduced an entire nation?
Boris Johnson says hello!
On a very small scale, the same thing... Johnson has charisma. Johnson's not a great orator nor, fortunately, is he an evil megalomaniac (more a bumbling idler) but he does have charisma.
Starmer otoh clearly does not have charisma; if he did the Tories would be beyond doomed. However, Attlee had zero charisma and still managed to make his mark as one of the most influential PMs ever.
It's not Starmer's lack of charisma that is preventing him from delivering a coup de grace to the Tories, it's the fact that as the establishment's 'heir presumptive' he's had to tie himself to a deeply unpopular policy agenda.
I don't think Sunak is anything like such a flawed character as Boris Johnson but in terms of political electability he is far worse. He is not (yet) the liability that Liz Truss was but he is extraordinarily tone deaf to where people are at. And he becomes petulant when questioned: how dare any minion be so rude as to doubt his truth?
I have Conservative friends who really dislike him and that's not a good sign.
Good evening
Sunak is the best the conservatives have got, despite his flaws, and the mountain that the toxic legacy of Johnson and the diabolical Truss left him is a very tall order to overcome
If tonight's poll by Opinium in the Guardian is anything to go by neither Sunak or Starmer are setting the narrative alight with only 27% and 23% respectively seeing Starmer better than Sunak as PM
I expect the conservatives to pay a price at the next GE, but even Starmer's most avid fans must accept he is hardly inspiring the nation
Other pollsters also do best PM and Opinium are by far the stingiest in Starmer’s lead. Of other pollsters have recently polled this, Starmer leads Sunak 44-34 (R&W) and 37-28 (We Think) on the "better PM" question. Even in unliked outgoing governments it’s supposed to be hard for a PM to fall so far behind on this measure.
No, Sunak is not “the best the Conservatives have got” not by any measure. You are dangerously misreading this situation. Sunak is now out of touch with the public, not because he is filthy rich but because his politics and that of the government he leads has been revealed to be too dry and right wing for the UK today. He promises, over promises, and doesn’t deliver. Which makes every new promise, vow and policy, worthless. The result is voters are no longer listening to him selectively quoting and talking up we have never had it so good, and they won’t all they way up to voting day.
The scale of the Tory catastrophe at the next General Election does not rest at all on Starmer and his policy’s “inspiring the nation”, it will be based on the breadth and depth of voters no longer listening to the Conservatives, making the weeks of the election campaign all about how sleazy, useless, out of touch and dangerous the Tory Party are.
The best hope for the Conservatives now is to change these faces and voices at the top of the government to more everyday, grounded and in touch fresh faces, in order for a more aspirational message that has more broader appeal across more voters to be listened to and considered.
Hunt and Sunak cannot deliver that message, because they are no longer listened to. From here the Conservatives need to be listened to again, to save as many seats as they can. That’s why Sunak, Hunt and Braverman have to go.
I think that Sunak probably is the best person for the job, which is to lose with enough dignity that the Tories can regroup.
Funnily enough, everyone who dislikes the Tories wants Sunak to stay and 'lose with dignity' - God forbid the Tories should actually put a winner in place, nothing to upset the handover.
Who is left as a winner? Boris could have won a by-election, the fact some nobody won it shows he probably could have, and potentially be on hand at least, but they have no winners to pick from.
Though at this point they'd be more than happy if they could put May in and repeat 2017.
The potential winner is anyone but Sunak, in the sense that he himself cannot successfully sell a 're-set' of his failed Government. He came in on a ticket of 'adults' being needed to manage the economy, and he's utterly failed by his own yardstick - successful management of the economy. A new leader gets a new hearing. An old leader just keeps trying to relaunch their clapped out Government like May relaunching her clapped out Brexit deal.
No he hasn't. Inflation is half the level Truss left it at and just this week UK growth is now up to the middle of the G7 not the bottom as projected when he took over
Does that make the average person feel better off after the last three years' inflation accumulated and baked in? No, it does not. It is useless in that respect.
As wage rises on average are now about level with inflation going forward it will
Proving once again you don't understand taxes, economics or fiscal drag.
Since tax thresholds are frozen pay rises level with inflation helps the Exchequer, not the Employee.
If the Chancellor reversed Sunak's choice to freeze tax thresholds, that'd be different.
An interesting marker is that a lot more people are paying income tax on their savings interest [edit] over the 1K allowance* - IIRC the last tax year saw a rise of roughly half as many, and this current TY will see many more. Much of it is fiscal drag, just as you say.
Sure, it's partly increased interest rates so people are getting money - but the interest rates themselves have not kept up with inflation - as Martin Lewis et aliis have been pointing out very loudly and correctly. And to pay tax on that will feel unfair. It certainly does in MailOnlineCommentsLand.
*if total income not to high - but that itself suffers fiscal drag.
There will be a generation unaware they are supposed to self report and declare this tax.....as well as lots of oldies who won't bother. Wonder if it will be enforced or another voluntary tax paid by the law abiding but ignored by a significant minority.
I don't think Sunak is anything like such a flawed character as Boris Johnson but in terms of political electability he is far worse. He is not (yet) the liability that Liz Truss was but he is extraordinarily tone deaf to where people are at. And he becomes petulant when questioned: how dare any minion be so rude as to doubt his truth?
I have Conservative friends who really dislike him and that's not a good sign.
Good evening
Sunak is the best the conservatives have got, despite his flaws, and the mountain that the toxic legacy of Johnson and the diabolical Truss left him is a very tall order to overcome
If tonight's poll by Opinium in the Guardian is anything to go by neither Sunak or Starmer are setting the narrative alight with only 27% and 23% respectively seeing Starmer better than Sunak as PM
I expect the conservatives to pay a price at the next GE, but even Starmer's most avid fans must accept he is hardly inspiring the nation
Other pollsters also do best PM and Opinium are by far the stingiest in Starmer’s lead. Of other pollsters have recently polled this, Starmer leads Sunak 44-34 (R&W) and 37-28 (We Think) on the "better PM" question. Even in unliked outgoing governments it’s supposed to be hard for a PM to fall so far behind on this measure.
No, Sunak is not “the best the Conservatives have got” not by any measure. You are dangerously misreading this situation. Sunak is now out of touch with the public, not because he is filthy rich but because his politics and that of the government he leads has been revealed to be too dry and right wing for the UK today. He promises, over promises, and doesn’t deliver. Which makes every new promise, vow and policy, worthless. The result is voters are no longer listening to him selectively quoting and talking up we have never had it so good, and they won’t all they way up to voting day.
The scale of the Tory catastrophe at the next General Election does not rest at all on Starmer and his policy’s “inspiring the nation”, it will be based on the breadth and depth of voters no longer listening to the Conservatives, making the weeks of the election campaign all about how sleazy, useless, out of touch and dangerous the Tory Party are.
The best hope for the Conservatives now is to change these faces and voices at the top of the government to more everyday, grounded and in touch fresh faces, in order for a more aspirational message that has more broader appeal across more voters to be listened to and considered.
Hunt and Sunak cannot deliver that message, because they are no longer listened to. From here the Conservatives need to be listened to again, to save as many seats as they can. That’s why Sunak, Hunt and Braverman have to go.
I think that Sunak probably is the best person for the job, which is to lose with enough dignity that the Tories can regroup.
Funnily enough, everyone who dislikes the Tories wants Sunak to stay and 'lose with dignity' - God forbid the Tories should actually put a winner in place, nothing to upset the handover.
Who is left as a winner? Boris could have won a by-election, the fact some nobody won it shows he probably could have, and potentially be on hand at least, but they have no winners to pick from.
Though at this point they'd be more than happy if they could put May in and repeat 2017.
I don't know if anyone could win from here, but they could at least be trying to do so. Sunak doesn't seem to have any ambitions to try to reach out to more people, just a pure core vote strategy.
I'll repost my exercise from earlier this week. Curious how others would rate potential alternative leaders as potentially better or worse than Sunak.
Tory MPs who might be better than Sunak, in my personal view:
Not put down Javid or Wallace as they're standing down.
Mogg would fire up the Tory core vote much like Corbyn did for the Labour core vote, even if they both turned off centrists.
The worst leaders, electorally at least, are often those who both turn off centrists and fail to fire up the base eg Ed Miliband in 2015 or Hague in 2001
If the Tories want to become electable again, they need to do what Labour have done after replacing Corbyn. They need to marginalise their extremists, including the ERG, and, if necessary remove them from the party and not be so frightened of Reform.
We are only in 2009 in terms of getting to Starmer if you want the Labour comparison. On that basis Sunak is Brown and hasn't even lost power and a general election yet!
Though for all his faults Corbyn made enough gains to get a hung parliament in 2017 and got a higher voteshare in 2017 and 2019 than either Brown did in 2010 or Ed Miliband did in 2015
Taking that approach - that Sunak is Brown (or Major), we are due to have someone half presentable, more on the wings than the predecessor but not popular enough to win back votes yet, a Hague or Ed. So perhaps someone like Cleverly. Then they go completely batshit and elect an IDS/Corbyn (Mogg). Then they turn sensible with a Starmer/Howard. Before the charismatic unifier (but Labour appear not to need this step to win).
Just finished another eleven hour shift, so up to sixty hours hours since the Bank Holiday. I think I’ll get to seventy-five for the week after working tomorrow and Monday
I popped into Waitrose on the way home and got cheap dinner (a minted pea and bacon quiche for £1.39!). On my way in, I saw Peter Mandelson at the checkout (buying sushi and what looked like stir fry ingredients). I’ve known for years that he lives nearby, but it’s the first time I’ve seen him
You should have stolen his place in the queue, after asking him if he knew who you are?
That would have been quite some manoeuvre given I didn't yet have shopping and there was an empty self checkout next to the one he was using!
I know quite a few people that have met him socially, or served him in shops, or worked at his place, and they've all liked him. Even though most of them haven't liked his politics
I’ve met him and he seemed perfectly charming. I never did understand the loathing he induced
Many who met hitler socially thought he was charming
I think not. Talked relentlessly. Never listened. Bad breath too.
Not true. The earlier, younger Hitler was apparently quite charming. He was good at seducing upper class German ladies into donating money. Got invited to posh parties: as the amusing firebrand plebiean radical who nonetheless knew a lot about opera and art
That is not the impression Cyril Coles (former senior MI officer in Germany who knew both Conrad Adenauer and Hitler during the 1920s) gave in his fictionalised memoirs.
He portrayed Hitler as a boorish, lightweight misogynist, summed up by one character commenting, with a laugh, 'your saviour of Germany is quite the funniest [as in, weirdest] little man I've ever met.'
He might not have been to the taste of aristo Brits in 20s Germany (except, err, the Mitfords, and some of the royals), but he was clearly good at finding and tickling the fash clitori of rich and pwoerful men and women
if he was this tedious, monotonous, misogynistic boor - as portrayed - then he would have got precisely nowhere. Instead he went from prole Austrian corporal to radical urban hero to supreme (and widely adored, at first) national leader. That does not happen by sheer accident
Warning! Hitler fanboi alert! Hitler fanboi alert!
I'm going to support Leon on this one.
First, although he's got some seriously dodgy right-wing tendencies, there's zero evidence Leon is a fan of Hitler. Indeed if you're a sucker for all that right-wing crap you ought to hate Hitler because he did the hard-right cause immeasurable damage.
Second, and most important, there is surely no doubt that Hitler was a mesmerising, charismatic speaker. How else could such a physically unprepossessing, shallow-thinker have seduced an entire nation?
I think sometimes we'd like to believe evil person A was just despicable in every possible way, and incompetent in every way to boot, since for obvious reasons no one with any sense wants to praise such people. But regrettably people can be pretty able in some ways and terrible, and there's no point denying that.
The inability to discern nuance and ambiguity and grey areas in our political foes is one of the most depressing aspects of our modern polarisation. Yes, as an extreme example, that means you have to accept that Adolf Hitler probably had political skills, and talent, and could even be charming. That's not nice. But plenty of evil people have achieved their evils precisely necause they have utilised personal human skills. Fred West, decent bloke, nice patios, etc
For me, I find this most difficult with the Khmer Rouge. Probably because I have living memory of this genocide (for that it was), and I have personal friends who experienced the Khmer Rouge, and I have met people who actually survived Tuol Sleng (ie unlike 99.9999% of all others) and I have traveled widely in Cambodia and spoken to dozens of people whose lives were destroyed by the KR, and their families - children, siblings, parents - tortured and starved to death
It is hard to get around that. Yet I have wise friends who have interviewed old KR leaders like Khieu Samphan and Ieng Sary and they have told me, in the past, that they are "charming, urbane, speak great French, crack good jokes, and they are charismatic"
I don't think Sunak is anything like such a flawed character as Boris Johnson but in terms of political electability he is far worse. He is not (yet) the liability that Liz Truss was but he is extraordinarily tone deaf to where people are at. And he becomes petulant when questioned: how dare any minion be so rude as to doubt his truth?
I have Conservative friends who really dislike him and that's not a good sign.
Good evening
Sunak is the best the conservatives have got, despite his flaws, and the mountain that the toxic legacy of Johnson and the diabolical Truss left him is a very tall order to overcome
If tonight's poll by Opinium in the Guardian is anything to go by neither Sunak or Starmer are setting the narrative alight with only 27% and 23% respectively seeing Starmer better than Sunak as PM
I expect the conservatives to pay a price at the next GE, but even Starmer's most avid fans must accept he is hardly inspiring the nation
Other pollsters also do best PM and Opinium are by far the stingiest in Starmer’s lead. Of other pollsters have recently polled this, Starmer leads Sunak 44-34 (R&W) and 37-28 (We Think) on the "better PM" question. Even in unliked outgoing governments it’s supposed to be hard for a PM to fall so far behind on this measure.
No, Sunak is not “the best the Conservatives have got” not by any measure. You are dangerously misreading this situation. Sunak is now out of touch with the public, not because he is filthy rich but because his politics and that of the government he leads has been revealed to be too dry and right wing for the UK today. He promises, over promises, and doesn’t deliver. Which makes every new promise, vow and policy, worthless. The result is voters are no longer listening to him selectively quoting and talking up we have never had it so good, and they won’t all they way up to voting day.
The scale of the Tory catastrophe at the next General Election does not rest at all on Starmer and his policy’s “inspiring the nation”, it will be based on the breadth and depth of voters no longer listening to the Conservatives, making the weeks of the election campaign all about how sleazy, useless, out of touch and dangerous the Tory Party are.
The best hope for the Conservatives now is to change these faces and voices at the top of the government to more everyday, grounded and in touch fresh faces, in order for a more aspirational message that has more broader appeal across more voters to be listened to and considered.
Hunt and Sunak cannot deliver that message, because they are no longer listened to. From here the Conservatives need to be listened to again, to save as many seats as they can. That’s why Sunak, Hunt and Braverman have to go.
I think that Sunak probably is the best person for the job, which is to lose with enough dignity that the Tories can regroup.
Funnily enough, everyone who dislikes the Tories wants Sunak to stay and 'lose with dignity' - God forbid the Tories should actually put a winner in place, nothing to upset the handover.
Just finished another eleven hour shift, so up to sixty hours hours since the Bank Holiday. I think I’ll get to seventy-five for the week after working tomorrow and Monday
I popped into Waitrose on the way home and got cheap dinner (a minted pea and bacon quiche for £1.39!). On my way in, I saw Peter Mandelson at the checkout (buying sushi and what looked like stir fry ingredients). I’ve known for years that he lives nearby, but it’s the first time I’ve seen him
You should have stolen his place in the queue, after asking him if he knew who you are?
That would have been quite some manoeuvre given I didn't yet have shopping and there was an empty self checkout next to the one he was using!
I know quite a few people that have met him socially, or served him in shops, or worked at his place, and they've all liked him. Even though most of them haven't liked his politics
I’ve met him and he seemed perfectly charming. I never did understand the loathing he induced
Many who met hitler socially thought he was charming
I think not. Talked relentlessly. Never listened. Bad breath too.
Not true. The earlier, younger Hitler was apparently quite charming. He was good at seducing upper class German ladies into donating money. Got invited to posh parties: as the amusing firebrand plebiean radical who nonetheless knew a lot about opera and art
That is not the impression Cyril Coles (former senior MI officer in Germany who knew both Conrad Adenauer and Hitler during the 1920s) gave in his fictionalised memoirs.
He portrayed Hitler as a boorish, lightweight misogynist, summed up by one character commenting, with a laugh, 'your saviour of Germany is quite the funniest [as in, weirdest] little man I've ever met.'
He might not have been to the taste of aristo Brits in 20s Germany (except, err, the Mitfords, and some of the royals), but he was clearly good at finding and tickling the fash clitori of rich and pwoerful men and women
if he was this tedious, monotonous, misogynistic boor - as portrayed - then he would have got precisely nowhere. Instead he went from prole Austrian corporal to radical urban hero to supreme (and widely adored, at first) national leader. That does not happen by sheer accident
Warning! Hitler fanboi alert! Hitler fanboi alert!
I'm going to support Leon on this one.
First, although he's got some seriously dodgy right-wing tendencies, there's zero evidence Leon is a fan of Hitler. Indeed if you're a sucker for all that right-wing crap you ought to hate Hitler because he did the hard-right cause immeasurable damage.
Second, and most important, there is surely no doubt that Hitler was a mesmerising, charismatic speaker. How else could such a physically unprepossessing, shallow-thinker have seduced an entire nation?
I don't think Sunak is anything like such a flawed character as Boris Johnson but in terms of political electability he is far worse. He is not (yet) the liability that Liz Truss was but he is extraordinarily tone deaf to where people are at. And he becomes petulant when questioned: how dare any minion be so rude as to doubt his truth?
I have Conservative friends who really dislike him and that's not a good sign.
Good evening
Sunak is the best the conservatives have got, despite his flaws, and the mountain that the toxic legacy of Johnson and the diabolical Truss left him is a very tall order to overcome
If tonight's poll by Opinium in the Guardian is anything to go by neither Sunak or Starmer are setting the narrative alight with only 27% and 23% respectively seeing Starmer better than Sunak as PM
I expect the conservatives to pay a price at the next GE, but even Starmer's most avid fans must accept he is hardly inspiring the nation
Other pollsters also do best PM and Opinium are by far the stingiest in Starmer’s lead. Of other pollsters have recently polled this, Starmer leads Sunak 44-34 (R&W) and 37-28 (We Think) on the "better PM" question. Even in unliked outgoing governments it’s supposed to be hard for a PM to fall so far behind on this measure.
No, Sunak is not “the best the Conservatives have got” not by any measure. You are dangerously misreading this situation. Sunak is now out of touch with the public, not because he is filthy rich but because his politics and that of the government he leads has been revealed to be too dry and right wing for the UK today. He promises, over promises, and doesn’t deliver. Which makes every new promise, vow and policy, worthless. The result is voters are no longer listening to him selectively quoting and talking up we have never had it so good, and they won’t all they way up to voting day.
The scale of the Tory catastrophe at the next General Election does not rest at all on Starmer and his policy’s “inspiring the nation”, it will be based on the breadth and depth of voters no longer listening to the Conservatives, making the weeks of the election campaign all about how sleazy, useless, out of touch and dangerous the Tory Party are.
The best hope for the Conservatives now is to change these faces and voices at the top of the government to more everyday, grounded and in touch fresh faces, in order for a more aspirational message that has more broader appeal across more voters to be listened to and considered.
Hunt and Sunak cannot deliver that message, because they are no longer listened to. From here the Conservatives need to be listened to again, to save as many seats as they can. That’s why Sunak, Hunt and Braverman have to go.
I think that Sunak probably is the best person for the job, which is to lose with enough dignity that the Tories can regroup.
Funnily enough, everyone who dislikes the Tories wants Sunak to stay and 'lose with dignity' - God forbid the Tories should actually put a winner in place, nothing to upset the handover.
Who is left as a winner? Boris could have won a by-election, the fact some nobody won it shows he probably could have, and potentially be on hand at least, but they have no winners to pick from.
Though at this point they'd be more than happy if they could put May in and repeat 2017.
The potential winner is anyone but Sunak, in the sense that he himself cannot successfully sell a 're-set' of his failed Government. He came in on a ticket of 'adults' being needed to manage the economy, and he's utterly failed by his own yardstick - successful management of the economy. A new leader gets a new hearing. An old leader just keeps trying to relaunch their clapped out Government like May relaunching her clapped out Brexit deal.
No he hasn't. Inflation is half the level Truss left it at and just this week UK growth is now up to the middle of the G7 not the bottom as projected when he took over
Does that make the average person feel better off after the last three years' inflation accumulated and baked in? No, it does not. It is useless in that respect.
As wage rises on average are now about level with inflation going forward it will
Proving once again you don't understand taxes, economics or fiscal drag.
Since tax thresholds are frozen pay rises level with inflation helps the Exchequer, not the Employee.
If the Chancellor reversed Sunak's choice to freeze tax thresholds, that'd be different.
To be fair though, on day of the Kwarteng Budget, BBC, Sky etc etc all hailed it as the biggest tax cutting budget since Barbers in 1972. But as the following week proved, especially with the enormous fiscal drag figure, it was hardly the massive giveaway, growth pepping budget. But did the BBC, Sky, etc etc lead their bulletins with “sorry we got it wrong at first and told you a lie”? No they led with UK pound under pressure, ignoring the fact the dollar was pressuring everything else on earth that week.
Politically, anti Truss Tory MPs talked up all these difficulties, and spun it and lied, in order to undermine and remove Truss. It wasn’t the budget which politically damaged the Tories to the depth they havn’t recovered from, it was the blue on blue assassination of leader the membership had voted for.
I’m not politically daft, other things were at play. Truss and Kwarteng were the worst communicators in the history of politics. And the maxi size of UK borrowing and debt burden did mean tax cutting budget did spook the market too. Also what spooked the markets, the cost of Truss two and half year relief fund, slashed to just 6 months on Hunt’s first day. But its oh too politically cosy for both HY on one hand and CHB the other to spout the same spin and lies about impact of Truss, we lose the true history.
I don't think Sunak is anything like such a flawed character as Boris Johnson but in terms of political electability he is far worse. He is not (yet) the liability that Liz Truss was but he is extraordinarily tone deaf to where people are at. And he becomes petulant when questioned: how dare any minion be so rude as to doubt his truth?
I have Conservative friends who really dislike him and that's not a good sign.
Good evening
Sunak is the best the conservatives have got, despite his flaws, and the mountain that the toxic legacy of Johnson and the diabolical Truss left him is a very tall order to overcome
If tonight's poll by Opinium in the Guardian is anything to go by neither Sunak or Starmer are setting the narrative alight with only 27% and 23% respectively seeing Starmer better than Sunak as PM
I expect the conservatives to pay a price at the next GE, but even Starmer's most avid fans must accept he is hardly inspiring the nation
Other pollsters also do best PM and Opinium are by far the stingiest in Starmer’s lead. Of other pollsters have recently polled this, Starmer leads Sunak 44-34 (R&W) and 37-28 (We Think) on the "better PM" question. Even in unliked outgoing governments it’s supposed to be hard for a PM to fall so far behind on this measure.
No, Sunak is not “the best the Conservatives have got” not by any measure. You are dangerously misreading this situation. Sunak is now out of touch with the public, not because he is filthy rich but because his politics and that of the government he leads has been revealed to be too dry and right wing for the UK today. He promises, over promises, and doesn’t deliver. Which makes every new promise, vow and policy, worthless. The result is voters are no longer listening to him selectively quoting and talking up we have never had it so good, and they won’t all they way up to voting day.
The scale of the Tory catastrophe at the next General Election does not rest at all on Starmer and his policy’s “inspiring the nation”, it will be based on the breadth and depth of voters no longer listening to the Conservatives, making the weeks of the election campaign all about how sleazy, useless, out of touch and dangerous the Tory Party are.
The best hope for the Conservatives now is to change these faces and voices at the top of the government to more everyday, grounded and in touch fresh faces, in order for a more aspirational message that has more broader appeal across more voters to be listened to and considered.
Hunt and Sunak cannot deliver that message, because they are no longer listened to. From here the Conservatives need to be listened to again, to save as many seats as they can. That’s why Sunak, Hunt and Braverman have to go.
I think that Sunak probably is the best person for the job, which is to lose with enough dignity that the Tories can regroup.
Funnily enough, everyone who dislikes the Tories wants Sunak to stay and 'lose with dignity' - God forbid the Tories should actually put a winner in place, nothing to upset the handover.
COULD TRUSS REALLY MAKE A COMEBACK ????
We need a header on this compelling prospect ....
Truss would be lucky to get the Work and Pensions brief in the next Tory leader's likely Shadow Cabinet let alone ever have a chance of being leader again.
She led the Tories to their lowest poll rating in history last autumn
I don't think Sunak is anything like such a flawed character as Boris Johnson but in terms of political electability he is far worse. He is not (yet) the liability that Liz Truss was but he is extraordinarily tone deaf to where people are at. And he becomes petulant when questioned: how dare any minion be so rude as to doubt his truth?
I have Conservative friends who really dislike him and that's not a good sign.
Good evening
Sunak is the best the conservatives have got, despite his flaws, and the mountain that the toxic legacy of Johnson and the diabolical Truss left him is a very tall order to overcome
If tonight's poll by Opinium in the Guardian is anything to go by neither Sunak or Starmer are setting the narrative alight with only 27% and 23% respectively seeing Starmer better than Sunak as PM
I expect the conservatives to pay a price at the next GE, but even Starmer's most avid fans must accept he is hardly inspiring the nation
Other pollsters also do best PM and Opinium are by far the stingiest in Starmer’s lead. Of other pollsters have recently polled this, Starmer leads Sunak 44-34 (R&W) and 37-28 (We Think) on the "better PM" question. Even in unliked outgoing governments it’s supposed to be hard for a PM to fall so far behind on this measure.
No, Sunak is not “the best the Conservatives have got” not by any measure. You are dangerously misreading this situation. Sunak is now out of touch with the public, not because he is filthy rich but because his politics and that of the government he leads has been revealed to be too dry and right wing for the UK today. He promises, over promises, and doesn’t deliver. Which makes every new promise, vow and policy, worthless. The result is voters are no longer listening to him selectively quoting and talking up we have never had it so good, and they won’t all they way up to voting day.
The scale of the Tory catastrophe at the next General Election does not rest at all on Starmer and his policy’s “inspiring the nation”, it will be based on the breadth and depth of voters no longer listening to the Conservatives, making the weeks of the election campaign all about how sleazy, useless, out of touch and dangerous the Tory Party are.
The best hope for the Conservatives now is to change these faces and voices at the top of the government to more everyday, grounded and in touch fresh faces, in order for a more aspirational message that has more broader appeal across more voters to be listened to and considered.
Hunt and Sunak cannot deliver that message, because they are no longer listened to. From here the Conservatives need to be listened to again, to save as many seats as they can. That’s why Sunak, Hunt and Braverman have to go.
I think that Sunak probably is the best person for the job, which is to lose with enough dignity that the Tories can regroup.
Funnily enough, everyone who dislikes the Tories wants Sunak to stay and 'lose with dignity' - God forbid the Tories should actually put a winner in place, nothing to upset the handover.
Who is left as a winner? Boris could have won a by-election, the fact some nobody won it shows he probably could have, and potentially be on hand at least, but they have no winners to pick from.
Though at this point they'd be more than happy if they could put May in and repeat 2017.
I don't know if anyone could win from here, but they could at least be trying to do so. Sunak doesn't seem to have any ambitions to try to reach out to more people, just a pure core vote strategy.
I'll repost my exercise from earlier this week. Curious how others would rate potential alternative leaders as potentially better or worse than Sunak.
Tory MPs who might be better than Sunak, in my personal view:
Not put down Javid or Wallace as they're standing down.
Mogg would fire up the Tory core vote much like Corbyn did for the Labour core vote, even if they both turned off centrists.
The worst leaders, electorally at least, are often those who both turn off centrists and fail to fire up the base eg Ed Miliband in 2015 or Hague in 2001
If the Tories want to become electable again, they need to do what Labour have done after replacing Corbyn. They need to marginalise their extremists, including the ERG, and, if necessary remove them from the party and not be so frightened of Reform.
We are only in 2009 in terms of getting to Starmer if you want the Labour comparison. On that basis Sunak is Brown and hasn't even lost power and a general election yet!
Though for all his faults Corbyn made enough gains to get a hung parliament in 2017 and got a higher voteshare in 2017 and 2019 than either Brown did in 2010 or Ed Miliband did in 2015
Taking that approach - that Sunak is Brown (or Major), we are due to have someone half presentable, more on the wings than the predecessor but not popular enough to win back votes yet, a Hague or Ed. So perhaps someone like Cleverly. Then they go completely batshit and elect an IDS/Corbyn (Mogg). Then they turn sensible with a Starmer/Howard. Before the charismatic unifier (but Labour appear not to need this step to win).
Heck, if 1979, 1997 and 2010 are precedents, the next Conservative PM might be someone who isn't yet an MP, let alone a household name.
I don't think Sunak is anything like such a flawed character as Boris Johnson but in terms of political electability he is far worse. He is not (yet) the liability that Liz Truss was but he is extraordinarily tone deaf to where people are at. And he becomes petulant when questioned: how dare any minion be so rude as to doubt his truth?
I have Conservative friends who really dislike him and that's not a good sign.
Good evening
Sunak is the best the conservatives have got, despite his flaws, and the mountain that the toxic legacy of Johnson and the diabolical Truss left him is a very tall order to overcome
If tonight's poll by Opinium in the Guardian is anything to go by neither Sunak or Starmer are setting the narrative alight with only 27% and 23% respectively seeing Starmer better than Sunak as PM
I expect the conservatives to pay a price at the next GE, but even Starmer's most avid fans must accept he is hardly inspiring the nation
Other pollsters also do best PM and Opinium are by far the stingiest in Starmer’s lead. Of other pollsters have recently polled this, Starmer leads Sunak 44-34 (R&W) and 37-28 (We Think) on the "better PM" question. Even in unliked outgoing governments it’s supposed to be hard for a PM to fall so far behind on this measure.
No, Sunak is not “the best the Conservatives have got” not by any measure. You are dangerously misreading this situation. Sunak is now out of touch with the public, not because he is filthy rich but because his politics and that of the government he leads has been revealed to be too dry and right wing for the UK today. He promises, over promises, and doesn’t deliver. Which makes every new promise, vow and policy, worthless. The result is voters are no longer listening to him selectively quoting and talking up we have never had it so good, and they won’t all they way up to voting day.
The scale of the Tory catastrophe at the next General Election does not rest at all on Starmer and his policy’s “inspiring the nation”, it will be based on the breadth and depth of voters no longer listening to the Conservatives, making the weeks of the election campaign all about how sleazy, useless, out of touch and dangerous the Tory Party are.
The best hope for the Conservatives now is to change these faces and voices at the top of the government to more everyday, grounded and in touch fresh faces, in order for a more aspirational message that has more broader appeal across more voters to be listened to and considered.
Hunt and Sunak cannot deliver that message, because they are no longer listened to. From here the Conservatives need to be listened to again, to save as many seats as they can. That’s why Sunak, Hunt and Braverman have to go.
I think that Sunak probably is the best person for the job, which is to lose with enough dignity that the Tories can regroup.
Funnily enough, everyone who dislikes the Tories wants Sunak to stay and 'lose with dignity' - God forbid the Tories should actually put a winner in place, nothing to upset the handover.
Who is left as a winner? Boris could have won a by-election, the fact some nobody won it shows he probably could have, and potentially be on hand at least, but they have no winners to pick from.
Though at this point they'd be more than happy if they could put May in and repeat 2017.
I don't know if anyone could win from here, but they could at least be trying to do so. Sunak doesn't seem to have any ambitions to try to reach out to more people, just a pure core vote strategy.
I'll repost my exercise from earlier this week. Curious how others would rate potential alternative leaders as potentially better or worse than Sunak.
Tory MPs who might be better than Sunak, in my personal view:
Not put down Javid or Wallace as they're standing down.
Mogg would fire up the Tory core vote much like Corbyn did for the Labour core vote, even if they both turned off centrists.
The worst leaders, electorally at least, are often those who both turn off centrists and fail to fire up the base eg Ed Miliband in 2015 or Hague in 2001
If the Tories want to become electable again, they need to do what Labour have done after replacing Corbyn. They need to marginalise their extremists, including the ERG, and, if necessary remove them from the party and not be so frightened of Reform.
We are only in 2009 in terms of getting to Starmer if you want the Labour comparison. On that basis Sunak is Brown and hasn't even lost power and a general election yet!
Though for all his faults Corbyn made enough gains to get a hung parliament in 2017 and got a higher voteshare in 2017 and 2019 than either Brown did in 2010 or Ed Miliband did in 2015
Taking that approach - that Sunak is Brown (or Major), we are due to have someone half presentable, more on the wings than the predecessor but not popular enough to win back votes yet, a Hague or Ed. So perhaps someone like Cleverly. Then they go completely batshit and elect an IDS/Corbyn (Mogg). Then they turn sensible with a Starmer/Howard. Before the charismatic unifier (but Labour appear not to need this step to win).
Heck, if 1979, 1997 and 2010 are precedents, the next Conservative PM might be someone who isn't yet an MP, let alone a household name.
Starmer was first elected as an MP in 2015, Cameron in 2001, Blair in 1983. Being first elected as an MP in a second consecutive general election defeat for your party is a good stepping stone to being a future PM
While an election is expected next autumn — and could be as late as January 2025 — Starmer and his chief strategist Morgan McSweeney have told their troops that they think Sunak might go as early as May.
If the public begins to acknowledge that the economy is improving, that would clear the way for the Tories to campaign on a message of “we are turning the corner, don’t let Labour ruin it”. Going in May could prevent local election results damaging the Tories further, and would avoid another summer of small boat arrivals.
A senior Labour source said: “They seem to be keeping the option of May open and making it viable in a way they weren’t before. They’ve speeded-up candidate selection. They’re doing a lot more direct mail.”
We are a pretty fickle bunch if we buy an economic recovery after a couple of months of 4% inflation figures. Does Rishi understand inflation is cumulative? I suppose he could always reheat "eat out to help out" or whatever it was called.
I think that he just has to believe that voters will think "A smaller number - phew!". It's not like the current media landscape is exactly encouraging understanding of what inflation is.
That and a couple of tweaks to tax policy - who knows. Sad though it makes me - I can see them winning and chugging downwards for another few years yet.
Me too. A quirky 20 seat majority with 50 Conservative seats with sub-500 majorities and Labour with a bucket load of 25,000 majority seats.
I'm going to support Leon on this one...First, although he's got some seriously dodgy right-wing tendencies, there's zero evidence Leon is a fan of Hitler.
I'm not quite sure how to put this, but Leon is too much of a flibbertigibbet to be a proper Nazi, or Communist, or anything requiring commitment, or hard work, or getting up in the morning. He frequently flirts with Nazi idolatry (mentioning the Hugo Boss uniforms, putting Nazi imagery on his laptop and photographing it, saying that the younger Hitler was quite charming) but it's a magpie with a shiny ribbon, not a serious intent.
Just finished another eleven hour shift, so up to sixty hours hours since the Bank Holiday. I think I’ll get to seventy-five for the week after working tomorrow and Monday
I popped into Waitrose on the way home and got cheap dinner (a minted pea and bacon quiche for £1.39!). On my way in, I saw Peter Mandelson at the checkout (buying sushi and what looked like stir fry ingredients). I’ve known for years that he lives nearby, but it’s the first time I’ve seen him
You should have stolen his place in the queue, after asking him if he knew who you are?
That would have been quite some manoeuvre given I didn't yet have shopping and there was an empty self checkout next to the one he was using!
I know quite a few people that have met him socially, or served him in shops, or worked at his place, and they've all liked him. Even though most of them haven't liked his politics
I’ve met him and he seemed perfectly charming. I never did understand the loathing he induced
Many who met hitler socially thought he was charming
I think not. Talked relentlessly. Never listened. Bad breath too.
Not true. The earlier, younger Hitler was apparently quite charming. He was good at seducing upper class German ladies into donating money. Got invited to posh parties: as the amusing firebrand plebiean radical who nonetheless knew a lot about opera and art
That is not the impression Cyril Coles (former senior MI officer in Germany who knew both Conrad Adenauer and Hitler during the 1920s) gave in his fictionalised memoirs.
He portrayed Hitler as a boorish, lightweight misogynist, summed up by one character commenting, with a laugh, 'your saviour of Germany is quite the funniest [as in, weirdest] little man I've ever met.'
He might not have been to the taste of aristo Brits in 20s Germany (except, err, the Mitfords, and some of the royals), but he was clearly good at finding and tickling the fash clitori of rich and pwoerful men and women
if he was this tedious, monotonous, misogynistic boor - as portrayed - then he would have got precisely nowhere. Instead he went from prole Austrian corporal to radical urban hero to supreme (and widely adored, at first) national leader. That does not happen by sheer accident
Warning! Hitler fanboi alert! Hitler fanboi alert!
I'm going to support Leon on this one.
First, although he's got some seriously dodgy right-wing tendencies, there's zero evidence Leon is a fan of Hitler. Indeed if you're a sucker for all that right-wing crap you ought to hate Hitler because he did the hard-right cause immeasurable damage.
Second, and most important, there is surely no doubt that Hitler was a mesmerising, charismatic speaker. How else could such a physically unprepossessing, shallow-thinker have seduced an entire nation?
I think sometimes we'd like to believe evil person A was just despicable in every possible way, and incompetent in every way to boot, since for obvious reasons no one with any sense wants to praise such people. But regrettably people can be pretty able in some ways and terrible, and there's no point denying that.
The inability to discern nuance and ambiguity and grey areas in our political foes is one of the most depressing aspects of our modern polarisation. Yes, as an extreme example, that means you have to accept that Adolf Hitler probably had political skills, and talent, and could even be charming. That's not nice. But plenty of evil people have achieved their evils precisely necause they have utilised personal human skills. Fred West, decent bloke, nice patios, etc
For me, I find this most difficult with the Khmer Rouge. Probably because I have living memory of this genocide (for that it was), and I have personal friends who experienced the Khmer Rouge, and I have met people who actually survived Tuol Sleng (ie unlike 99.9999% of all others) and I have traveled widely in Cambodia and spoken to dozens of people whose lives were destroyed by the KR, and their families - children, siblings, parents - tortured and starved to death
It is hard to get around that. Yet I have wise friends who have interviewed old KR leaders like Khieu Samphan and Ieng Sary and they have told me, in the past, that they are "charming, urbane, speak great French, crack good jokes, and they are charismatic"
This makes me want to puke. But so it is
It seems astonishing that the Khmer Rouge and their impact is not far more well known, and that Pol Pot died in 1998 of natural causes. 'Brother Number Two' was convicted in 2018 (according to wiki he was in detention since 2007) and died in 2019! Others are still alive.
This diversion has revealed to me that Cambodia has somehow also managed to develop a hereditary monarchy within a monarchy, as longstanding PM Hun Sen has recently resigned after 38 years to be replaced by his son Hun Manet, though he seems to still be running things.
I'm going to support Leon on this one...First, although he's got some seriously dodgy right-wing tendencies, there's zero evidence Leon is a fan of Hitler.
I'm not quite sure how to put this, but Leon is too much of a flibbertigibbet to be a proper Nazi, or Communist, or anything requiring commitment, or hard work, or getting up in the morning. He frequently flirts with Nazi idolatry (mentioning the Hugo Boss uniforms, putting Nazi imagery on his laptop and photographing it, saying that the younger Hitler was quite charming) but it's a magpie with a shiny ribbon, not a serious intent.
Point of order: the young Hitler seen sidelong on my laptop in a comment discussing the Portuguese food, or landscape, or whatever it was, WAS A FUCKING JOKE
I wanted to see who would be dim enough to get all het up and say AH WE HAVE SEEN HITLER AGE 7 ON YOUR LAPTOP, HAHAHAHA YOU ARE A NAZI
You can believe me or not, I just want this noted fot the British Library archivist filing this away for posteirty. Also, not realsing it was a joke is a basic IQ fail. Sorry, but it is
Just finished another eleven hour shift, so up to sixty hours hours since the Bank Holiday. I think I’ll get to seventy-five for the week after working tomorrow and Monday
I popped into Waitrose on the way home and got cheap dinner (a minted pea and bacon quiche for £1.39!). On my way in, I saw Peter Mandelson at the checkout (buying sushi and what looked like stir fry ingredients). I’ve known for years that he lives nearby, but it’s the first time I’ve seen him
You should have stolen his place in the queue, after asking him if he knew who you are?
That would have been quite some manoeuvre given I didn't yet have shopping and there was an empty self checkout next to the one he was using!
I know quite a few people that have met him socially, or served him in shops, or worked at his place, and they've all liked him. Even though most of them haven't liked his politics
I’ve met him and he seemed perfectly charming. I never did understand the loathing he induced
Homophobia in the mix, I suppose.
Also, Mandelson never bothered to disguise his centrism, so the left abjured him, and he was seriously clever, and never tried to hide that either, which annoyed everyone
He would have made an excellent, Machiavellian prime minister. A British Macron
Ooh, there's a nice challenge for a warm dark evening.
How do you get Mandelson into Number Ten?
Hard to see how that happens, but yes, smart enough to do an elegant job once butterflied there.
Possibly a Starmeresque "made LotO to do an internal cleanup before handing over to the next PM,but the Conservatives collapse prematurely" job...
He's on my list of people who could maybe have made great, if controversial and unliked UK prime ministers (in my adult lifetime). For the purposes of this list I am ignoring political opinion, just sheer political skill or brainpower+charm
So far it is
1. Alex Salmond 2. Peter Mandelson 3. William Hague - if only he had waited 5-10 years 4. Ed Balls? 5. Fuck it: Michael Gove! OK he's not charming but he is smart and generally capable
If only Labour had been led by Mandelson after Blair (rather than Brown), Hague, rather than Cameron, Labour then by Ed Balls (rather than Miliband or Corbyn), and then Tories by Gove rather than Truss/Sunak
The younger Salmond would have made an excellent UK PM whenever
Hague, Ken Clarke, Gove and Portillo could have all done it in the last 25 years.
I note than @JamesKelly has now abandoned Scottish political blogging. It's a shame, as he was rather good within that tiny genre, and also sane and polite, in general (not always the case in online indy Scotch politics)
For me it says Sindy is over for ANOTHER generation. 20 years. This will have ramifications for British politics as Scots focus once again on Westminster, in the absence of indy to drive them, as an imminent reality
You note wrong, James is soldiering on meantime. I guess that means Sindy is not over for ANOTHER generation. I suspect having Alba as the vehicle for his aspirations is taking its toll on his positivity.
Good luck to him (honestly). He's a sincere man fighting for a genuine cause (however much I disagree). He is also civil, intelligent and interesting when you get beyond indy (but he's also candid about indy)
However his latest blogpost is not exactly full of hope for your cause
"The real problem we face now, though, is not that the Yes vote isn't high enough but that the SNP vote isn't high enough. A huge Yes vote is devoid of all value if there aren't going to be enough pro-independence elected politicians to put the people's wishes into action. Strictly in terms of party political voting intentions we're in a weaker position than we've been at any time for around a decade. Rather than everything suddenly going from wrong to right, as Given and Heather would have you believe, the events of 2023 have at dizzying speed taken the SNP from being in a commanding position to being on the ropes and trying to find a way of fighting back.
"Worse still, the independence movement is not starting to resemble the healthy state it was in back in 2014, as Given and Heather claim, but in fact is more demoralised than it's been since 2014 due to Nicola Sturgeon suddenly nipping away without having kept her promises, the lies about SNP membership numbers, the poor leadership of Humza Yousaf, and the essentially rigged election process which installed him."
Fairly bleak
No Sindy referendum til the late 2030s, is now my guess .
I don't think Sunak is anything like such a flawed character as Boris Johnson but in terms of political electability he is far worse. He is not (yet) the liability that Liz Truss was but he is extraordinarily tone deaf to where people are at. And he becomes petulant when questioned: how dare any minion be so rude as to doubt his truth?
I have Conservative friends who really dislike him and that's not a good sign.
Good evening
Sunak is the best the conservatives have got, despite his flaws, and the mountain that the toxic legacy of Johnson and the diabolical Truss left him is a very tall order to overcome
If tonight's poll by Opinium in the Guardian is anything to go by neither Sunak or Starmer are setting the narrative alight with only 27% and 23% respectively seeing Starmer better than Sunak as PM
I expect the conservatives to pay a price at the next GE, but even Starmer's most avid fans must accept he is hardly inspiring the nation
Other pollsters also do best PM and Opinium are by far the stingiest in Starmer’s lead. Of other pollsters have recently polled this, Starmer leads Sunak 44-34 (R&W) and 37-28 (We Think) on the "better PM" question. Even in unliked outgoing governments it’s supposed to be hard for a PM to fall so far behind on this measure.
No, Sunak is not “the best the Conservatives have got” not by any measure. You are dangerously misreading this situation. Sunak is now out of touch with the public, not because he is filthy rich but because his politics and that of the government he leads has been revealed to be too dry and right wing for the UK today. He promises, over promises, and doesn’t deliver. Which makes every new promise, vow and policy, worthless. The result is voters are no longer listening to him selectively quoting and talking up we have never had it so good, and they won’t all they way up to voting day.
The scale of the Tory catastrophe at the next General Election does not rest at all on Starmer and his policy’s “inspiring the nation”, it will be based on the breadth and depth of voters no longer listening to the Conservatives, making the weeks of the election campaign all about how sleazy, useless, out of touch and dangerous the Tory Party are.
The best hope for the Conservatives now is to change these faces and voices at the top of the government to more everyday, grounded and in touch fresh faces, in order for a more aspirational message that has more broader appeal across more voters to be listened to and considered.
Hunt and Sunak cannot deliver that message, because they are no longer listened to. From here the Conservatives need to be listened to again, to save as many seats as they can. That’s why Sunak, Hunt and Braverman have to go.
I think that Sunak probably is the best person for the job, which is to lose with enough dignity that the Tories can regroup.
Funnily enough, everyone who dislikes the Tories wants Sunak to stay and 'lose with dignity' - God forbid the Tories should actually put a winner in place, nothing to upset the handover.
COULD TRUSS REALLY MAKE A COMEBACK ????
We need a header on this compelling prospect ....
Despite limp-dicked comedy attacks on her tenure falling increasingly flat, given that she was done in for 'causing' bond-yields to rise to the dangerous highs of, um, half what they are now, Truss has never suggested that she wants to make a political comeback. Unlike the current incumbent, she knows that she'd be doing the Tory cause more harm than good.
I don't think Sunak is anything like such a flawed character as Boris Johnson but in terms of political electability he is far worse. He is not (yet) the liability that Liz Truss was but he is extraordinarily tone deaf to where people are at. And he becomes petulant when questioned: how dare any minion be so rude as to doubt his truth?
I have Conservative friends who really dislike him and that's not a good sign.
Good evening
Sunak is the best the conservatives have got, despite his flaws, and the mountain that the toxic legacy of Johnson and the diabolical Truss left him is a very tall order to overcome
If tonight's poll by Opinium in the Guardian is anything to go by neither Sunak or Starmer are setting the narrative alight with only 27% and 23% respectively seeing Starmer better than Sunak as PM
I expect the conservatives to pay a price at the next GE, but even Starmer's most avid fans must accept he is hardly inspiring the nation
Other pollsters also do best PM and Opinium are by far the stingiest in Starmer’s lead. Of other pollsters have recently polled this, Starmer leads Sunak 44-34 (R&W) and 37-28 (We Think) on the "better PM" question. Even in unliked outgoing governments it’s supposed to be hard for a PM to fall so far behind on this measure.
No, Sunak is not “the best the Conservatives have got” not by any measure. You are dangerously misreading this situation. Sunak is now out of touch with the public, not because he is filthy rich but because his politics and that of the government he leads has been revealed to be too dry and right wing for the UK today. He promises, over promises, and doesn’t deliver. Which makes every new promise, vow and policy, worthless. The result is voters are no longer listening to him selectively quoting and talking up we have never had it so good, and they won’t all they way up to voting day.
The scale of the Tory catastrophe at the next General Election does not rest at all on Starmer and his policy’s “inspiring the nation”, it will be based on the breadth and depth of voters no longer listening to the Conservatives, making the weeks of the election campaign all about how sleazy, useless, out of touch and dangerous the Tory Party are.
The best hope for the Conservatives now is to change these faces and voices at the top of the government to more everyday, grounded and in touch fresh faces, in order for a more aspirational message that has more broader appeal across more voters to be listened to and considered.
Hunt and Sunak cannot deliver that message, because they are no longer listened to. From here the Conservatives need to be listened to again, to save as many seats as they can. That’s why Sunak, Hunt and Braverman have to go.
I think that Sunak probably is the best person for the job, which is to lose with enough dignity that the Tories can regroup.
Funnily enough, everyone who dislikes the Tories wants Sunak to stay and 'lose with dignity' - God forbid the Tories should actually put a winner in place, nothing to upset the handover.
Who is left as a winner? Boris could have won a by-election, the fact some nobody won it shows he probably could have, and potentially be on hand at least, but they have no winners to pick from.
Though at this point they'd be more than happy if they could put May in and repeat 2017.
I don't know if anyone could win from here, but they could at least be trying to do so. Sunak doesn't seem to have any ambitions to try to reach out to more people, just a pure core vote strategy.
I'll repost my exercise from earlier this week. Curious how others would rate potential alternative leaders as potentially better or worse than Sunak.
Tory MPs who might be better than Sunak, in my personal view:
Just finished another eleven hour shift, so up to sixty hours hours since the Bank Holiday. I think I’ll get to seventy-five for the week after working tomorrow and Monday
I popped into Waitrose on the way home and got cheap dinner (a minted pea and bacon quiche for £1.39!). On my way in, I saw Peter Mandelson at the checkout (buying sushi and what looked like stir fry ingredients). I’ve known for years that he lives nearby, but it’s the first time I’ve seen him
You should have stolen his place in the queue, after asking him if he knew who you are?
That would have been quite some manoeuvre given I didn't yet have shopping and there was an empty self checkout next to the one he was using!
I know quite a few people that have met him socially, or served him in shops, or worked at his place, and they've all liked him. Even though most of them haven't liked his politics
I’ve met him and he seemed perfectly charming. I never did understand the loathing he induced
Homophobia in the mix, I suppose.
Also, Mandelson never bothered to disguise his centrism, so the left abjured him, and he was seriously clever, and never tried to hide that either, which annoyed everyone
He would have made an excellent, Machiavellian prime minister. A British Macron
Ooh, there's a nice challenge for a warm dark evening.
How do you get Mandelson into Number Ten?
Hard to see how that happens, but yes, smart enough to do an elegant job once butterflied there.
Possibly a Starmeresque "made LotO to do an internal cleanup before handing over to the next PM,but the Conservatives collapse prematurely" job...
He's on my list of people who could maybe have made great, if controversial and unliked UK prime ministers (in my adult lifetime). For the purposes of this list I am ignoring political opinion, just sheer political skill or brainpower+charm
So far it is
1. Alex Salmond 2. Peter Mandelson 3. William Hague - if only he had waited 5-10 years 4. Ed Balls? 5. Fuck it: Michael Gove! OK he's not charming but he is smart and generally capable
If only Labour had been led by Mandelson after Blair (rather than Brown), Hague, rather than Cameron, Labour then by Ed Balls (rather than Miliband or Corbyn), and then Tories by Gove rather than Truss/Sunak
The younger Salmond would have made an excellent UK PM whenever
Hague, Ken Clarke, Gove and Portillo could have all done it in the last 25 years.
I think Portillo was the half decent one that got away.
The PCP in its infinite lack of wisdom choosing instead to give the membership a choice between a raging europhile and IDS, then resenting them for choosing IDS.
For all those among you complaining about cancellation, this is what it really looks like:
"...A Saudi court has sentenced a retired teacher to death for criticising the ruling family in messages to his nine social media followers. According to Human Rights Watch, 54-year-old Mohammed al-Ghamdi was sentenced to death on July 10 for various offences related to his activity on YouTube and X, formerly known as Twitter. The ruling may be the first death sentence for social media posts..." Full Story: https://ground.news/article/befc502b-4b13-4a8c-b450-7a97542f0d76 See also: https://www.youtube.com/post/Ugkxbq47N9yYk-BB8eq5zYVQBUIJmLAsTpPg
Appalling . And yet footballers are happy to take blood money and ignore the disgusting Saudi regime . Aswell as this the tennis authorities are considering taking some tennis events there . The sports world should not be going there and validating the despicable record on human rights .
I don't think Sunak is anything like such a flawed character as Boris Johnson but in terms of political electability he is far worse. He is not (yet) the liability that Liz Truss was but he is extraordinarily tone deaf to where people are at. And he becomes petulant when questioned: how dare any minion be so rude as to doubt his truth?
I have Conservative friends who really dislike him and that's not a good sign.
Good evening
Sunak is the best the conservatives have got, despite his flaws, and the mountain that the toxic legacy of Johnson and the diabolical Truss left him is a very tall order to overcome
If tonight's poll by Opinium in the Guardian is anything to go by neither Sunak or Starmer are setting the narrative alight with only 27% and 23% respectively seeing Starmer better than Sunak as PM
I expect the conservatives to pay a price at the next GE, but even Starmer's most avid fans must accept he is hardly inspiring the nation
Other pollsters also do best PM and Opinium are by far the stingiest in Starmer’s lead. Of other pollsters have recently polled this, Starmer leads Sunak 44-34 (R&W) and 37-28 (We Think) on the "better PM" question. Even in unliked outgoing governments it’s supposed to be hard for a PM to fall so far behind on this measure.
No, Sunak is not “the best the Conservatives have got” not by any measure. You are dangerously misreading this situation. Sunak is now out of touch with the public, not because he is filthy rich but because his politics and that of the government he leads has been revealed to be too dry and right wing for the UK today. He promises, over promises, and doesn’t deliver. Which makes every new promise, vow and policy, worthless. The result is voters are no longer listening to him selectively quoting and talking up we have never had it so good, and they won’t all they way up to voting day.
The scale of the Tory catastrophe at the next General Election does not rest at all on Starmer and his policy’s “inspiring the nation”, it will be based on the breadth and depth of voters no longer listening to the Conservatives, making the weeks of the election campaign all about how sleazy, useless, out of touch and dangerous the Tory Party are.
The best hope for the Conservatives now is to change these faces and voices at the top of the government to more everyday, grounded and in touch fresh faces, in order for a more aspirational message that has more broader appeal across more voters to be listened to and considered.
Hunt and Sunak cannot deliver that message, because they are no longer listened to. From here the Conservatives need to be listened to again, to save as many seats as they can. That’s why Sunak, Hunt and Braverman have to go.
I think that Sunak probably is the best person for the job, which is to lose with enough dignity that the Tories can regroup.
Funnily enough, everyone who dislikes the Tories wants Sunak to stay and 'lose with dignity' - God forbid the Tories should actually put a winner in place, nothing to upset the handover.
Who is left as a winner? Boris could have won a by-election, the fact some nobody won it shows he probably could have, and potentially be on hand at least, but they have no winners to pick from.
Though at this point they'd be more than happy if they could put May in and repeat 2017.
I don't know if anyone could win from here, but they could at least be trying to do so. Sunak doesn't seem to have any ambitions to try to reach out to more people, just a pure core vote strategy.
I'll repost my exercise from earlier this week. Curious how others would rate potential alternative leaders as potentially better or worse than Sunak.
Tory MPs who might be better than Sunak, in my personal view:
Not put down Javid or Wallace as they're standing down.
Bizarrely, I almost agree with your list. I would not include Dowden nor McVey.
Gove would be unpopular but also innovative and energetic. Mordaunt is an empty vessel who'd be found out pretty quickly.
Tugendhat is interesting. Question if he could grow into the job. Hunt would be like Sunak.
FWIW, I think we should stick with Sunak. The problem can't be fixed by constant spinning the roulette wheel on the leader.
It’s just about possible to explain replacing May, Johnson and Truss. But trying to replace a competent if dull and seemingly out of touch Sunak would just invite scorn, derision and calls for an election (again). Nothing to be gained. The die is cast, the defeat looming, nothing more but to play out the cards.
I still think my suggestion that Sunak calls a GE and then quits as party leader should be given a try - every man and woman (and other) for themselves, and see which senior figure grabs the most support with each contender running a leadership campaign concurrent with the GE campaign, with confused Tory supporters able to find at least one to support as a reason to show up for the party.
The latest Opinium survey for the Observer shows the Conservative have failed to shift the dial in Sunak’s favour, with the prime minister dropping two points in the past two weeks to a net score of -25% (24% approve, 49% disapprove).
Overall, Labour holds a healthy 14-point lead, with 42% of the vote share (+1 compared with a fortnight ago) against 28% for the Conservatives (+2). The Liberal Democrats are on 9% (-2), Reform UK is on 8% (-1) as is the Green party (+1).
Keir Starmer’s approval rating, while also negative, is far better than Sunak’s, with the Labour leader standing on -7% (28% approve, 35% disapprove).
Similarly, views about who would make the best prime minister have also remained stable – Starmer now leads with 27% choosing the Labour leader, versus 23% who prefer Sunak.
While this support could be stronger for Starmer, there is no evidence that voters are moving to Sunak as Tory strategists had hoped.
Just a 4% lead as preferred PM for Starmer hardly vast however. And 8% RefUK for the Tories to squeeze too
Just finished another eleven hour shift, so up to sixty hours hours since the Bank Holiday. I think I’ll get to seventy-five for the week after working tomorrow and Monday
I popped into Waitrose on the way home and got cheap dinner (a minted pea and bacon quiche for £1.39!). On my way in, I saw Peter Mandelson at the checkout (buying sushi and what looked like stir fry ingredients). I’ve known for years that he lives nearby, but it’s the first time I’ve seen him
You should have stolen his place in the queue, after asking him if he knew who you are?
That would have been quite some manoeuvre given I didn't yet have shopping and there was an empty self checkout next to the one he was using!
I know quite a few people that have met him socially, or served him in shops, or worked at his place, and they've all liked him. Even though most of them haven't liked his politics
I’ve met him and he seemed perfectly charming. I never did understand the loathing he induced
Homophobia in the mix, I suppose.
Also, Mandelson never bothered to disguise his centrism, so the left abjured him, and he was seriously clever, and never tried to hide that either, which annoyed everyone
He would have made an excellent, Machiavellian prime minister. A British Macron
Ooh, there's a nice challenge for a warm dark evening.
How do you get Mandelson into Number Ten?
Hard to see how that happens, but yes, smart enough to do an elegant job once butterflied there.
Possibly a Starmeresque "made LotO to do an internal cleanup before handing over to the next PM,but the Conservatives collapse prematurely" job...
He's on my list of people who could maybe have made great, if controversial and unliked UK prime ministers (in my adult lifetime). For the purposes of this list I am ignoring political opinion, just sheer political skill or brainpower+charm
So far it is
1. Alex Salmond 2. Peter Mandelson 3. William Hague - if only he had waited 5-10 years 4. Ed Balls? 5. Fuck it: Michael Gove! OK he's not charming but he is smart and generally capable
If only Labour had been led by Mandelson after Blair (rather than Brown), Hague, rather than Cameron, Labour then by Ed Balls (rather than Miliband or Corbyn), and then Tories by Gove rather than Truss/Sunak
The younger Salmond would have made an excellent UK PM whenever
Hague, Ken Clarke, Gove and Portillo could have all done it in the last 25 years.
I think Portillo was the half decent one that got away.
The PCP in its infinite lack of wisdom choosing instead to give the membership a choice between a raging europhile and IDS, then resenting them for choosing IDS.
I remember Ken Clarke's "campaign" to this day - very well.
It was obvious he felt campaigning to the members was beneath him, and that sort of contempt came across very clearly.
For all those among you complaining about cancellation, this is what it really looks like:
"...A Saudi court has sentenced a retired teacher to death for criticising the ruling family in messages to his nine social media followers. According to Human Rights Watch, 54-year-old Mohammed al-Ghamdi was sentenced to death on July 10 for various offences related to his activity on YouTube and X, formerly known as Twitter. The ruling may be the first death sentence for social media posts..." Full Story: https://ground.news/article/befc502b-4b13-4a8c-b450-7a97542f0d76 See also: https://www.youtube.com/post/Ugkxbq47N9yYk-BB8eq5zYVQBUIJmLAsTpPg
Appalling . And yet footballers are happy to take blood money and ignore the disgusting Saudi regime . Aswell as this the tennis authorities are considering taking some tennis events there . The sports world should not be going there and validating the despicable record on human rights .
Golf has been taken over as well I believe.
I get its sportswashing, but not sure why this year was chosen to just go all in on buying big football stars. No softly softly approach here, just go all in.
Just finished another eleven hour shift, so up to sixty hours hours since the Bank Holiday. I think I’ll get to seventy-five for the week after working tomorrow and Monday
I popped into Waitrose on the way home and got cheap dinner (a minted pea and bacon quiche for £1.39!). On my way in, I saw Peter Mandelson at the checkout (buying sushi and what looked like stir fry ingredients). I’ve known for years that he lives nearby, but it’s the first time I’ve seen him
You should have stolen his place in the queue, after asking him if he knew who you are?
That would have been quite some manoeuvre given I didn't yet have shopping and there was an empty self checkout next to the one he was using!
I know quite a few people that have met him socially, or served him in shops, or worked at his place, and they've all liked him. Even though most of them haven't liked his politics
I’ve met him and he seemed perfectly charming. I never did understand the loathing he induced
Many who met hitler socially thought he was charming
I think not. Talked relentlessly. Never listened. Bad breath too.
Not true. The earlier, younger Hitler was apparently quite charming. He was good at seducing upper class German ladies into donating money. Got invited to posh parties: as the amusing firebrand plebiean radical who nonetheless knew a lot about opera and art
That is not the impression Cyril Coles (former senior MI officer in Germany who knew both Conrad Adenauer and Hitler during the 1920s) gave in his fictionalised memoirs.
He portrayed Hitler as a boorish, lightweight misogynist, summed up by one character commenting, with a laugh, 'your saviour of Germany is quite the funniest [as in, weirdest] little man I've ever met.'
He might not have been to the taste of aristo Brits in 20s Germany (except, err, the Mitfords, and some of the royals), but he was clearly good at finding and tickling the fash clitori of rich and pwoerful men and women
if he was this tedious, monotonous, misogynistic boor - as portrayed - then he would have got precisely nowhere. Instead he went from prole Austrian corporal to radical urban hero to supreme (and widely adored, at first) national leader. That does not happen by sheer accident
Warning! Hitler fanboi alert! Hitler fanboi alert!
I'm going to support Leon on this one.
First, although he's got some seriously dodgy right-wing tendencies, there's zero evidence Leon is a fan of Hitler. Indeed if you're a sucker for all that right-wing crap you ought to hate Hitler because he did the hard-right cause immeasurable damage.
Second, and most important, there is surely no doubt that Hitler was a mesmerising, charismatic speaker. How else could such a physically unprepossessing, shallow-thinker have seduced an entire nation?
I think sometimes we'd like to believe evil person A was just despicable in every possible way, and incompetent in every way to boot, since for obvious reasons no one with any sense wants to praise such people. But regrettably people can be pretty able in some ways and terrible, and there's no point denying that.
The inability to discern nuance and ambiguity and grey areas in our political foes is one of the most depressing aspects of our modern polarisation. Yes, as an extreme example, that means you have to accept that Adolf Hitler probably had political skills, and talent, and could even be charming. That's not nice. But plenty of evil people have achieved their evils precisely necause they have utilised personal human skills. Fred West, decent bloke, nice patios, etc
For me, I find this most difficult with the Khmer Rouge. Probably because I have living memory of this genocide (for that it was), and I have personal friends who experienced the Khmer Rouge, and I have met people who actually survived Tuol Sleng (ie unlike 99.9999% of all others) and I have traveled widely in Cambodia and spoken to dozens of people whose lives were destroyed by the KR, and their families - children, siblings, parents - tortured and starved to death
It is hard to get around that. Yet I have wise friends who have interviewed old KR leaders like Khieu Samphan and Ieng Sary and they have told me, in the past, that they are "charming, urbane, speak great French, crack good jokes, and they are charismatic"
This makes me want to puke. But so it is
It seems astonishing that the Khmer Rouge and their impact is not far more well known, and that Pol Pot died in 1998 of natural causes. 'Brother Number Two' was convicted in 2018 (according to wiki he was in detention since 2007) and died in 2019! Others are still alive.
This diversion has revealed to me that Cambodia has somehow also managed to develop a hereditary monarchy within a monarchy, as longstanding PM Hun Sen has recently resigned after 38 years to be replaced by his son Hun Manet, though he seems to still be running things.
Ex PB-er Sean Thomas did his best to remind us of Pol Pot in the Spectator, a few months ago, but most are determined to forget
I don't think Sunak is anything like such a flawed character as Boris Johnson but in terms of political electability he is far worse. He is not (yet) the liability that Liz Truss was but he is extraordinarily tone deaf to where people are at. And he becomes petulant when questioned: how dare any minion be so rude as to doubt his truth?
I have Conservative friends who really dislike him and that's not a good sign.
Good evening
Sunak is the best the conservatives have got, despite his flaws, and the mountain that the toxic legacy of Johnson and the diabolical Truss left him is a very tall order to overcome
If tonight's poll by Opinium in the Guardian is anything to go by neither Sunak or Starmer are setting the narrative alight with only 27% and 23% respectively seeing Starmer better than Sunak as PM
I expect the conservatives to pay a price at the next GE, but even Starmer's most avid fans must accept he is hardly inspiring the nation
Other pollsters also do best PM and Opinium are by far the stingiest in Starmer’s lead. Of other pollsters have recently polled this, Starmer leads Sunak 44-34 (R&W) and 37-28 (We Think) on the "better PM" question. Even in unliked outgoing governments it’s supposed to be hard for a PM to fall so far behind on this measure.
No, Sunak is not “the best the Conservatives have got” not by any measure. You are dangerously misreading this situation. Sunak is now out of touch with the public, not because he is filthy rich but because his politics and that of the government he leads has been revealed to be too dry and right wing for the UK today. He promises, over promises, and doesn’t deliver. Which makes every new promise, vow and policy, worthless. The result is voters are no longer listening to him selectively quoting and talking up we have never had it so good, and they won’t all they way up to voting day.
The scale of the Tory catastrophe at the next General Election does not rest at all on Starmer and his policy’s “inspiring the nation”, it will be based on the breadth and depth of voters no longer listening to the Conservatives, making the weeks of the election campaign all about how sleazy, useless, out of touch and dangerous the Tory Party are.
The best hope for the Conservatives now is to change these faces and voices at the top of the government to more everyday, grounded and in touch fresh faces, in order for a more aspirational message that has more broader appeal across more voters to be listened to and considered.
Hunt and Sunak cannot deliver that message, because they are no longer listened to. From here the Conservatives need to be listened to again, to save as many seats as they can. That’s why Sunak, Hunt and Braverman have to go.
I think that Sunak probably is the best person for the job, which is to lose with enough dignity that the Tories can regroup.
Funnily enough, everyone who dislikes the Tories wants Sunak to stay and 'lose with dignity' - God forbid the Tories should actually put a winner in place, nothing to upset the handover.
Who is left as a winner? Boris could have won a by-election, the fact some nobody won it shows he probably could have, and potentially be on hand at least, but they have no winners to pick from.
Though at this point they'd be more than happy if they could put May in and repeat 2017.
I don't know if anyone could win from here, but they could at least be trying to do so. Sunak doesn't seem to have any ambitions to try to reach out to more people, just a pure core vote strategy.
I'll repost my exercise from earlier this week. Curious how others would rate potential alternative leaders as potentially better or worse than Sunak.
Tory MPs who might be better than Sunak, in my personal view:
Not put down Javid or Wallace as they're standing down.
Mogg would fire up the Tory core vote much like Corbyn did for the Labour core vote, even if they both turned off centrists.
The worst leaders, electorally at least, are often those who both turn off centrists and fail to fire up the base eg Ed Miliband in 2015 or Hague in 2001
If the Tories want to become electable again, they need to do what Labour have done after replacing Corbyn. They need to marginalise their extremists, including the ERG, and, if necessary remove them from the party and not be so frightened of Reform.
We are only in 2009 in terms of getting to Starmer if you want the Labour comparison. On that basis Sunak is Brown and hasn't even lost power and a general election yet!
Though for all his faults Corbyn made enough gains to get a hung parliament in 2017 and got a higher voteshare in 2017 and 2019 than either Brown did in 2010 or Ed Miliband did in 2015
Taking that approach - that Sunak is Brown (or Major), we are due to have someone half presentable, more on the wings than the predecessor but not popular enough to win back votes yet, a Hague or Ed. So perhaps someone like Cleverly. Then they go completely batshit and elect an IDS/Corbyn (Mogg). Then they turn sensible with a Starmer/Howard. Before the charismatic unifier (but Labour appear not to need this step to win).
Heck, if 1979, 1997 and 2010 are precedents, the next Conservative PM might be someone who isn't yet an MP, let alone a household name.
Starmer was first elected as an MP in 2015, Cameron in 2001, Blair in 1983. Being first elected as an MP in a second consecutive general election defeat for your party is a good stepping stone to being a future PM
Kinda makes sense. It's the earliest you can say "nothing to do with me" about the last time your lot were in power.
And that's necessary in the British system, where we set such great store by kicking the rascals out. Possibly too much store; maybe we'd be better finding a way of using downhill politicians more effectively.
I don't think Sunak is anything like such a flawed character as Boris Johnson but in terms of political electability he is far worse. He is not (yet) the liability that Liz Truss was but he is extraordinarily tone deaf to where people are at. And he becomes petulant when questioned: how dare any minion be so rude as to doubt his truth?
I have Conservative friends who really dislike him and that's not a good sign.
Good evening
Sunak is the best the conservatives have got, despite his flaws, and the mountain that the toxic legacy of Johnson and the diabolical Truss left him is a very tall order to overcome
If tonight's poll by Opinium in the Guardian is anything to go by neither Sunak or Starmer are setting the narrative alight with only 27% and 23% respectively seeing Starmer better than Sunak as PM
I expect the conservatives to pay a price at the next GE, but even Starmer's most avid fans must accept he is hardly inspiring the nation
Other pollsters also do best PM and Opinium are by far the stingiest in Starmer’s lead. Of other pollsters have recently polled this, Starmer leads Sunak 44-34 (R&W) and 37-28 (We Think) on the "better PM" question. Even in unliked outgoing governments it’s supposed to be hard for a PM to fall so far behind on this measure.
No, Sunak is not “the best the Conservatives have got” not by any measure. You are dangerously misreading this situation. Sunak is now out of touch with the public, not because he is filthy rich but because his politics and that of the government he leads has been revealed to be too dry and right wing for the UK today. He promises, over promises, and doesn’t deliver. Which makes every new promise, vow and policy, worthless. The result is voters are no longer listening to him selectively quoting and talking up we have never had it so good, and they won’t all they way up to voting day.
The scale of the Tory catastrophe at the next General Election does not rest at all on Starmer and his policy’s “inspiring the nation”, it will be based on the breadth and depth of voters no longer listening to the Conservatives, making the weeks of the election campaign all about how sleazy, useless, out of touch and dangerous the Tory Party are.
The best hope for the Conservatives now is to change these faces and voices at the top of the government to more everyday, grounded and in touch fresh faces, in order for a more aspirational message that has more broader appeal across more voters to be listened to and considered.
Hunt and Sunak cannot deliver that message, because they are no longer listened to. From here the Conservatives need to be listened to again, to save as many seats as they can. That’s why Sunak, Hunt and Braverman have to go.
I think that Sunak probably is the best person for the job, which is to lose with enough dignity that the Tories can regroup.
Funnily enough, everyone who dislikes the Tories wants Sunak to stay and 'lose with dignity' - God forbid the Tories should actually put a winner in place, nothing to upset the handover.
Who is left as a winner? Boris could have won a by-election, the fact some nobody won it shows he probably could have, and potentially be on hand at least, but they have no winners to pick from.
Though at this point they'd be more than happy if they could put May in and repeat 2017.
I don't know if anyone could win from here, but they could at least be trying to do so. Sunak doesn't seem to have any ambitions to try to reach out to more people, just a pure core vote strategy.
I'll repost my exercise from earlier this week. Curious how others would rate potential alternative leaders as potentially better or worse than Sunak.
Tory MPs who might be better than Sunak, in my personal view:
Not put down Javid or Wallace as they're standing down.
Bizarrely, I almost agree with your list. I would not include Dowden nor McVey.
Gove would be unpopular but also innovative and energetic. Mordaunt is an empty vessel who'd be found out pretty quickly.
Tugendhat is interesting. Question if he could grow into the job. Hunt would be like Sunak.
FWIW, I think we should stick with Sunak. The problem can't be fixed by constant spinning the roulette wheel on the leader.
Given that the problem is the leader, of course it would be fixed by spinning the wheel again.
And we should stop expecting our leaders to have charisma, AND be detail-oriented workhorses who pore over briefing documents till 3 in the morning and get up at 6. Thatcher has really poisoned the well for future leaders in that regard. It's about assembling the right team around you. We know that Penny is a good commons performer, interviews well, and does 'human' - that's three things she can do that Sunak can't.
Just finished another eleven hour shift, so up to sixty hours hours since the Bank Holiday. I think I’ll get to seventy-five for the week after working tomorrow and Monday
I popped into Waitrose on the way home and got cheap dinner (a minted pea and bacon quiche for £1.39!). On my way in, I saw Peter Mandelson at the checkout (buying sushi and what looked like stir fry ingredients). I’ve known for years that he lives nearby, but it’s the first time I’ve seen him
You should have stolen his place in the queue, after asking him if he knew who you are?
That would have been quite some manoeuvre given I didn't yet have shopping and there was an empty self checkout next to the one he was using!
I know quite a few people that have met him socially, or served him in shops, or worked at his place, and they've all liked him. Even though most of them haven't liked his politics
I’ve met him and he seemed perfectly charming. I never did understand the loathing he induced
Homophobia in the mix, I suppose.
Also, Mandelson never bothered to disguise his centrism, so the left abjured him, and he was seriously clever, and never tried to hide that either, which annoyed everyone
He would have made an excellent, Machiavellian prime minister. A British Macron
Ooh, there's a nice challenge for a warm dark evening.
How do you get Mandelson into Number Ten?
Hard to see how that happens, but yes, smart enough to do an elegant job once butterflied there.
Possibly a Starmeresque "made LotO to do an internal cleanup before handing over to the next PM,but the Conservatives collapse prematurely" job...
He's on my list of people who could maybe have made great, if controversial and unliked UK prime ministers (in my adult lifetime). For the purposes of this list I am ignoring political opinion, just sheer political skill or brainpower+charm
So far it is
1. Alex Salmond 2. Peter Mandelson 3. William Hague - if only he had waited 5-10 years 4. Ed Balls? 5. Fuck it: Michael Gove! OK he's not charming but he is smart and generally capable
If only Labour had been led by Mandelson after Blair (rather than Brown), Hague, rather than Cameron, Labour then by Ed Balls (rather than Miliband or Corbyn), and then Tories by Gove rather than Truss/Sunak
The younger Salmond would have made an excellent UK PM whenever
Hague, Ken Clarke, Gove and Portillo could have all done it in the last 25 years.
I think Portillo was the half decent one that got away.
The PCP in its infinite lack of wisdom choosing instead to give the membership a choice between a raging europhile and IDS, then resenting them for choosing IDS.
I remember Ken Clarke's "campaign" to this day - very well.
It was obvious he felt campaigning to the members was beneath him, and that sort of contempt came across very clearly.
On top of that, I think he was rather lazy.
He did get his fat arse stuck in a Formula 1 car though, which was amusing.
I don't think Sunak is anything like such a flawed character as Boris Johnson but in terms of political electability he is far worse. He is not (yet) the liability that Liz Truss was but he is extraordinarily tone deaf to where people are at. And he becomes petulant when questioned: how dare any minion be so rude as to doubt his truth?
I have Conservative friends who really dislike him and that's not a good sign.
Good evening
Sunak is the best the conservatives have got, despite his flaws, and the mountain that the toxic legacy of Johnson and the diabolical Truss left him is a very tall order to overcome
If tonight's poll by Opinium in the Guardian is anything to go by neither Sunak or Starmer are setting the narrative alight with only 27% and 23% respectively seeing Starmer better than Sunak as PM
I expect the conservatives to pay a price at the next GE, but even Starmer's most avid fans must accept he is hardly inspiring the nation
Other pollsters also do best PM and Opinium are by far the stingiest in Starmer’s lead. Of other pollsters have recently polled this, Starmer leads Sunak 44-34 (R&W) and 37-28 (We Think) on the "better PM" question. Even in unliked outgoing governments it’s supposed to be hard for a PM to fall so far behind on this measure.
No, Sunak is not “the best the Conservatives have got” not by any measure. You are dangerously misreading this situation. Sunak is now out of touch with the public, not because he is filthy rich but because his politics and that of the government he leads has been revealed to be too dry and right wing for the UK today. He promises, over promises, and doesn’t deliver. Which makes every new promise, vow and policy, worthless. The result is voters are no longer listening to him selectively quoting and talking up we have never had it so good, and they won’t all they way up to voting day.
The scale of the Tory catastrophe at the next General Election does not rest at all on Starmer and his policy’s “inspiring the nation”, it will be based on the breadth and depth of voters no longer listening to the Conservatives, making the weeks of the election campaign all about how sleazy, useless, out of touch and dangerous the Tory Party are.
The best hope for the Conservatives now is to change these faces and voices at the top of the government to more everyday, grounded and in touch fresh faces, in order for a more aspirational message that has more broader appeal across more voters to be listened to and considered.
Hunt and Sunak cannot deliver that message, because they are no longer listened to. From here the Conservatives need to be listened to again, to save as many seats as they can. That’s why Sunak, Hunt and Braverman have to go.
I think that Sunak probably is the best person for the job, which is to lose with enough dignity that the Tories can regroup.
Funnily enough, everyone who dislikes the Tories wants Sunak to stay and 'lose with dignity' - God forbid the Tories should actually put a winner in place, nothing to upset the handover.
Who is left as a winner? Boris could have won a by-election, the fact some nobody won it shows he probably could have, and potentially be on hand at least, but they have no winners to pick from.
Though at this point they'd be more than happy if they could put May in and repeat 2017.
I don't know if anyone could win from here, but they could at least be trying to do so. Sunak doesn't seem to have any ambitions to try to reach out to more people, just a pure core vote strategy.
I'll repost my exercise from earlier this week. Curious how others would rate potential alternative leaders as potentially better or worse than Sunak.
Tory MPs who might be better than Sunak, in my personal view:
Not put down Javid or Wallace as they're standing down.
Bizarrely, I almost agree with your list. I would not include Dowden nor McVey.
Gove would be unpopular but also innovative and energetic. Mordaunt is an empty vessel who'd be found out pretty quickly.
Tugendhat is interesting. Question if he could grow into the job. Hunt would be like Sunak.
FWIW, I think we should stick with Sunak. The problem can't be fixed by constant spinning the roulette wheel on the leader.
Given that the problem is the leader, of course it would be fixed by spinning the wheel again.
And we should stop expecting our leaders to have charisma, AND be detail-oriented workhorses who pore over briefing documents till 3 in the morning and get up at 6. Thatcher has really poisoned the well for future leaders in that regard. It's about assembling the right team around you. We know that Penny is a good commons performer, interviews well, and does 'human' - that's three things she can do that Sunak can't.
Mordaunt would be the Tories' best choice right now but it would have to be another stitch-up bypassing the members because for them she is too 'woke' apparently.
I don't think Sunak is anything like such a flawed character as Boris Johnson but in terms of political electability he is far worse. He is not (yet) the liability that Liz Truss was but he is extraordinarily tone deaf to where people are at. And he becomes petulant when questioned: how dare any minion be so rude as to doubt his truth?
I have Conservative friends who really dislike him and that's not a good sign.
Good evening
Sunak is the best the conservatives have got, despite his flaws, and the mountain that the toxic legacy of Johnson and the diabolical Truss left him is a very tall order to overcome
If tonight's poll by Opinium in the Guardian is anything to go by neither Sunak or Starmer are setting the narrative alight with only 27% and 23% respectively seeing Starmer better than Sunak as PM
I expect the conservatives to pay a price at the next GE, but even Starmer's most avid fans must accept he is hardly inspiring the nation
Other pollsters also do best PM and Opinium are by far the stingiest in Starmer’s lead. Of other pollsters have recently polled this, Starmer leads Sunak 44-34 (R&W) and 37-28 (We Think) on the "better PM" question. Even in unliked outgoing governments it’s supposed to be hard for a PM to fall so far behind on this measure.
No, Sunak is not “the best the Conservatives have got” not by any measure. You are dangerously misreading this situation. Sunak is now out of touch with the public, not because he is filthy rich but because his politics and that of the government he leads has been revealed to be too dry and right wing for the UK today. He promises, over promises, and doesn’t deliver. Which makes every new promise, vow and policy, worthless. The result is voters are no longer listening to him selectively quoting and talking up we have never had it so good, and they won’t all they way up to voting day.
The scale of the Tory catastrophe at the next General Election does not rest at all on Starmer and his policy’s “inspiring the nation”, it will be based on the breadth and depth of voters no longer listening to the Conservatives, making the weeks of the election campaign all about how sleazy, useless, out of touch and dangerous the Tory Party are.
The best hope for the Conservatives now is to change these faces and voices at the top of the government to more everyday, grounded and in touch fresh faces, in order for a more aspirational message that has more broader appeal across more voters to be listened to and considered.
Hunt and Sunak cannot deliver that message, because they are no longer listened to. From here the Conservatives need to be listened to again, to save as many seats as they can. That’s why Sunak, Hunt and Braverman have to go.
I think that Sunak probably is the best person for the job, which is to lose with enough dignity that the Tories can regroup.
Funnily enough, everyone who dislikes the Tories wants Sunak to stay and 'lose with dignity' - God forbid the Tories should actually put a winner in place, nothing to upset the handover.
Who is left as a winner? Boris could have won a by-election, the fact some nobody won it shows he probably could have, and potentially be on hand at least, but they have no winners to pick from.
Though at this point they'd be more than happy if they could put May in and repeat 2017.
I don't know if anyone could win from here, but they could at least be trying to do so. Sunak doesn't seem to have any ambitions to try to reach out to more people, just a pure core vote strategy.
I'll repost my exercise from earlier this week. Curious how others would rate potential alternative leaders as potentially better or worse than Sunak.
Tory MPs who might be better than Sunak, in my personal view:
Not put down Javid or Wallace as they're standing down.
Bizarrely, I almost agree with your list. I would not include Dowden nor McVey.
Gove would be unpopular but also innovative and energetic. Mordaunt is an empty vessel who'd be found out pretty quickly.
Tugendhat is interesting. Question if he could grow into the job. Hunt would be like Sunak.
FWIW, I think we should stick with Sunak. The problem can't be fixed by constant spinning the roulette wheel on the leader.
Given that the problem is the leader, of course it would be fixed by spinning the wheel again.
And we should stop expecting our leaders to have charisma, AND be detail-oriented workhorses who pore over briefing documents till 3 in the morning and get up at 6. Thatcher has really poisoned the well for future leaders in that regard. It's about assembling the right team around you. We know that Penny is a good commons performer, interviews well, and does 'human' - that's three things she can do that Sunak can't.
Mordaunt would be the Tories' best choice right now but it would have to be another stitch-up bypassing the members because for them she is too 'woke' apparently.
Not sure how you worked that one out given that she didn't make it to the members' vote.
Just finished another eleven hour shift, so up to sixty hours hours since the Bank Holiday. I think I’ll get to seventy-five for the week after working tomorrow and Monday
I popped into Waitrose on the way home and got cheap dinner (a minted pea and bacon quiche for £1.39!). On my way in, I saw Peter Mandelson at the checkout (buying sushi and what looked like stir fry ingredients). I’ve known for years that he lives nearby, but it’s the first time I’ve seen him
You should have stolen his place in the queue, after asking him if he knew who you are?
That would have been quite some manoeuvre given I didn't yet have shopping and there was an empty self checkout next to the one he was using!
I know quite a few people that have met him socially, or served him in shops, or worked at his place, and they've all liked him. Even though most of them haven't liked his politics
I’ve met him and he seemed perfectly charming. I never did understand the loathing he induced
Homophobia in the mix, I suppose.
There are various rumours on the internet about Mandelson but none proved of course.
Didn't Mandelson keep on tripping up due to entirely self-inflicted errors because he wanted to live beyond his means?
Of course nobody resigns for trivial matters such as lying to mortgage providers or doing dodgy favours for billionnaires anymore.
“Peter Mandelson is a home-owner” - Paul Merton on HIGNFY, apparently the first time they’d ever let a joke making suggestions about his sexuality, past the editors. He said it very much as “homo-ner”
Today's obscure football fact. Evan Ferguson is the fourth player to have 10 EPL goals before his 19th birthday. He is also the first not to have been a boyhood Everton fan.
Just finished another eleven hour shift, so up to sixty hours hours since the Bank Holiday. I think I’ll get to seventy-five for the week after working tomorrow and Monday
I popped into Waitrose on the way home and got cheap dinner (a minted pea and bacon quiche for £1.39!). On my way in, I saw Peter Mandelson at the checkout (buying sushi and what looked like stir fry ingredients). I’ve known for years that he lives nearby, but it’s the first time I’ve seen him
You should have stolen his place in the queue, after asking him if he knew who you are?
That would have been quite some manoeuvre given I didn't yet have shopping and there was an empty self checkout next to the one he was using!
I know quite a few people that have met him socially, or served him in shops, or worked at his place, and they've all liked him. Even though most of them haven't liked his politics
I’ve met him and he seemed perfectly charming. I never did understand the loathing he induced
Homophobia in the mix, I suppose.
There are various rumours on the internet about Mandelson but none proved of course.
Didn't Mandelson keep on tripping up due to entirely self-inflicted errors because he wanted to live beyond his means?
Of course nobody resigns for trivial matters such as lying to mortgage providers or doing dodgy favours for billionnaires anymore.
“Peter Mandelson is a home-owner” - Paul Merton on HIGNFY, apparently the first time they’d ever let a joke making suggestions about his sexuality, past the editors. He said it very much as “homo-ner”
Dame Edna being interviewed by Parky at the time of the Millennium Dome hinted that her son Kenny and Mandelson had 'got together' over plans for the contents.
I don't think Sunak is anything like such a flawed character as Boris Johnson but in terms of political electability he is far worse. He is not (yet) the liability that Liz Truss was but he is extraordinarily tone deaf to where people are at. And he becomes petulant when questioned: how dare any minion be so rude as to doubt his truth?
I have Conservative friends who really dislike him and that's not a good sign.
Good evening
Sunak is the best the conservatives have got, despite his flaws, and the mountain that the toxic legacy of Johnson and the diabolical Truss left him is a very tall order to overcome
If tonight's poll by Opinium in the Guardian is anything to go by neither Sunak or Starmer are setting the narrative alight with only 27% and 23% respectively seeing Starmer better than Sunak as PM
I expect the conservatives to pay a price at the next GE, but even Starmer's most avid fans must accept he is hardly inspiring the nation
Other pollsters also do best PM and Opinium are by far the stingiest in Starmer’s lead. Of other pollsters have recently polled this, Starmer leads Sunak 44-34 (R&W) and 37-28 (We Think) on the "better PM" question. Even in unliked outgoing governments it’s supposed to be hard for a PM to fall so far behind on this measure.
No, Sunak is not “the best the Conservatives have got” not by any measure. You are dangerously misreading this situation. Sunak is now out of touch with the public, not because he is filthy rich but because his politics and that of the government he leads has been revealed to be too dry and right wing for the UK today. He promises, over promises, and doesn’t deliver. Which makes every new promise, vow and policy, worthless. The result is voters are no longer listening to him selectively quoting and talking up we have never had it so good, and they won’t all they way up to voting day.
The scale of the Tory catastrophe at the next General Election does not rest at all on Starmer and his policy’s “inspiring the nation”, it will be based on the breadth and depth of voters no longer listening to the Conservatives, making the weeks of the election campaign all about how sleazy, useless, out of touch and dangerous the Tory Party are.
The best hope for the Conservatives now is to change these faces and voices at the top of the government to more everyday, grounded and in touch fresh faces, in order for a more aspirational message that has more broader appeal across more voters to be listened to and considered.
Hunt and Sunak cannot deliver that message, because they are no longer listened to. From here the Conservatives need to be listened to again, to save as many seats as they can. That’s why Sunak, Hunt and Braverman have to go.
I think that Sunak probably is the best person for the job, which is to lose with enough dignity that the Tories can regroup.
Funnily enough, everyone who dislikes the Tories wants Sunak to stay and 'lose with dignity' - God forbid the Tories should actually put a winner in place, nothing to upset the handover.
Who is left as a winner? Boris could have won a by-election, the fact some nobody won it shows he probably could have, and potentially be on hand at least, but they have no winners to pick from.
Though at this point they'd be more than happy if they could put May in and repeat 2017.
I don't know if anyone could win from here, but they could at least be trying to do so. Sunak doesn't seem to have any ambitions to try to reach out to more people, just a pure core vote strategy.
I'll repost my exercise from earlier this week. Curious how others would rate potential alternative leaders as potentially better or worse than Sunak.
Tory MPs who might be better than Sunak, in my personal view:
Not put down Javid or Wallace as they're standing down.
Bizarrely, I almost agree with your list. I would not include Dowden nor McVey.
Gove would be unpopular but also innovative and energetic. Mordaunt is an empty vessel who'd be found out pretty quickly.
Tugendhat is interesting. Question if he could grow into the job. Hunt would be like Sunak.
FWIW, I think we should stick with Sunak. The problem can't be fixed by constant spinning the roulette wheel on the leader.
Given that the problem is the leader, of course it would be fixed by spinning the wheel again.
And we should stop expecting our leaders to have charisma, AND be detail-oriented workhorses who pore over briefing documents till 3 in the morning and get up at 6. Thatcher has really poisoned the well for future leaders in that regard. It's about assembling the right team around you. We know that Penny is a good commons performer, interviews well, and does 'human' - that's three things she can do that Sunak can't.
Sorry. We are on our fifth. Why should a sixth solve the problem? Maybe the problem isn't the leader? Maybe it's the Tory Party?
Just finished another eleven hour shift, so up to sixty hours hours since the Bank Holiday. I think I’ll get to seventy-five for the week after working tomorrow and Monday
I popped into Waitrose on the way home and got cheap dinner (a minted pea and bacon quiche for £1.39!). On my way in, I saw Peter Mandelson at the checkout (buying sushi and what looked like stir fry ingredients). I’ve known for years that he lives nearby, but it’s the first time I’ve seen him
You should have stolen his place in the queue, after asking him if he knew who you are?
That would have been quite some manoeuvre given I didn't yet have shopping and there was an empty self checkout next to the one he was using!
I know quite a few people that have met him socially, or served him in shops, or worked at his place, and they've all liked him. Even though most of them haven't liked his politics
I’ve met him and he seemed perfectly charming. I never did understand the loathing he induced
Many who met hitler socially thought he was charming
I think not. Talked relentlessly. Never listened. Bad breath too.
Not true. The earlier, younger Hitler was apparently quite charming. He was good at seducing upper class German ladies into donating money. Got invited to posh parties: as the amusing firebrand plebiean radical who nonetheless knew a lot about opera and art
That is not the impression Cyril Coles (former senior MI officer in Germany who knew both Conrad Adenauer and Hitler during the 1920s) gave in his fictionalised memoirs.
He portrayed Hitler as a boorish, lightweight misogynist, summed up by one character commenting, with a laugh, 'your saviour of Germany is quite the funniest [as in, weirdest] little man I've ever met.'
He might not have been to the taste of aristo Brits in 20s Germany (except, err, the Mitfords, and some of the royals), but he was clearly good at finding and tickling the fash clitori of rich and pwoerful men and women
if he was this tedious, monotonous, misogynistic boor - as portrayed - then he would have got precisely nowhere. Instead he went from prole Austrian corporal to radical urban hero to supreme (and widely adored, at first) national leader. That does not happen by sheer accident
Hitler was one of the most evil men of the 20th century but yes undoubtedly charismatic in person when he wanted to be, energetic and a very powerful orator
Just finished another eleven hour shift, so up to sixty hours hours since the Bank Holiday. I think I’ll get to seventy-five for the week after working tomorrow and Monday
I popped into Waitrose on the way home and got cheap dinner (a minted pea and bacon quiche for £1.39!). On my way in, I saw Peter Mandelson at the checkout (buying sushi and what looked like stir fry ingredients). I’ve known for years that he lives nearby, but it’s the first time I’ve seen him
You should have stolen his place in the queue, after asking him if he knew who you are?
That would have been quite some manoeuvre given I didn't yet have shopping and there was an empty self checkout next to the one he was using!
I know quite a few people that have met him socially, or served him in shops, or worked at his place, and they've all liked him. Even though most of them haven't liked his politics
I’ve met him and he seemed perfectly charming. I never did understand the loathing he induced
Many who met hitler socially thought he was charming
I think not. Talked relentlessly. Never listened. Bad breath too.
Not true. The earlier, younger Hitler was apparently quite charming. He was good at seducing upper class German ladies into donating money. Got invited to posh parties: as the amusing firebrand plebiean radical who nonetheless knew a lot about opera and art
That is not the impression Cyril Coles (former senior MI officer in Germany who knew both Conrad Adenauer and Hitler during the 1920s) gave in his fictionalised memoirs.
He portrayed Hitler as a boorish, lightweight misogynist, summed up by one character commenting, with a laugh, 'your saviour of Germany is quite the funniest [as in, weirdest] little man I've ever met.'
He might not have been to the taste of aristo Brits in 20s Germany (except, err, the Mitfords, and some of the royals), but he was clearly good at finding and tickling the fash clitori of rich and pwoerful men and women
if he was this tedious, monotonous, misogynistic boor - as portrayed - then he would have got precisely nowhere. Instead he went from prole Austrian corporal to radical urban hero to supreme (and widely adored, at first) national leader. That does not happen by sheer accident
Warning! Hitler fanboi alert! Hitler fanboi alert!
I'm going to support Leon on this one.
First, although he's got some seriously dodgy right-wing tendencies, there's zero evidence Leon is a fan of Hitler. Indeed if you're a sucker for all that right-wing crap you ought to hate Hitler because he did the hard-right cause immeasurable damage.
Second, and most important, there is surely no doubt that Hitler was a mesmerising, charismatic speaker. How else could such a physically unprepossessing, shallow-thinker have seduced an entire nation?
Except he didn't seduce an entire nation - just enough of it to achieve power.
The acquiescence of almost the entire nation to enormous evil wasn't a matter of seduction. 'Only following orders' had a disturbing amount of truth behind it.
I don't think Sunak is anything like such a flawed character as Boris Johnson but in terms of political electability he is far worse. He is not (yet) the liability that Liz Truss was but he is extraordinarily tone deaf to where people are at. And he becomes petulant when questioned: how dare any minion be so rude as to doubt his truth?
I have Conservative friends who really dislike him and that's not a good sign.
Good evening
Sunak is the best the conservatives have got, despite his flaws, and the mountain that the toxic legacy of Johnson and the diabolical Truss left him is a very tall order to overcome
If tonight's poll by Opinium in the Guardian is anything to go by neither Sunak or Starmer are setting the narrative alight with only 27% and 23% respectively seeing Starmer better than Sunak as PM
I expect the conservatives to pay a price at the next GE, but even Starmer's most avid fans must accept he is hardly inspiring the nation
Other pollsters also do best PM and Opinium are by far the stingiest in Starmer’s lead. Of other pollsters have recently polled this, Starmer leads Sunak 44-34 (R&W) and 37-28 (We Think) on the "better PM" question. Even in unliked outgoing governments it’s supposed to be hard for a PM to fall so far behind on this measure.
No, Sunak is not “the best the Conservatives have got” not by any measure. You are dangerously misreading this situation. Sunak is now out of touch with the public, not because he is filthy rich but because his politics and that of the government he leads has been revealed to be too dry and right wing for the UK today. He promises, over promises, and doesn’t deliver. Which makes every new promise, vow and policy, worthless. The result is voters are no longer listening to him selectively quoting and talking up we have never had it so good, and they won’t all they way up to voting day.
The scale of the Tory catastrophe at the next General Election does not rest at all on Starmer and his policy’s “inspiring the nation”, it will be based on the breadth and depth of voters no longer listening to the Conservatives, making the weeks of the election campaign all about how sleazy, useless, out of touch and dangerous the Tory Party are.
The best hope for the Conservatives now is to change these faces and voices at the top of the government to more everyday, grounded and in touch fresh faces, in order for a more aspirational message that has more broader appeal across more voters to be listened to and considered.
Hunt and Sunak cannot deliver that message, because they are no longer listened to. From here the Conservatives need to be listened to again, to save as many seats as they can. That’s why Sunak, Hunt and Braverman have to go.
I think that Sunak probably is the best person for the job, which is to lose with enough dignity that the Tories can regroup.
Funnily enough, everyone who dislikes the Tories wants Sunak to stay and 'lose with dignity' - God forbid the Tories should actually put a winner in place, nothing to upset the handover.
Who is left as a winner? Boris could have won a by-election, the fact some nobody won it shows he probably could have, and potentially be on hand at least, but they have no winners to pick from.
Though at this point they'd be more than happy if they could put May in and repeat 2017.
I don't know if anyone could win from here, but they could at least be trying to do so. Sunak doesn't seem to have any ambitions to try to reach out to more people, just a pure core vote strategy.
I'll repost my exercise from earlier this week. Curious how others would rate potential alternative leaders as potentially better or worse than Sunak.
Tory MPs who might be better than Sunak, in my personal view:
Not put down Javid or Wallace as they're standing down.
Bizarrely, I almost agree with your list. I would not include Dowden nor McVey.
Gove would be unpopular but also innovative and energetic. Mordaunt is an empty vessel who'd be found out pretty quickly.
Tugendhat is interesting. Question if he could grow into the job. Hunt would be like Sunak.
FWIW, I think we should stick with Sunak. The problem can't be fixed by constant spinning the roulette wheel on the leader.
Given that the problem is the leader, of course it would be fixed by spinning the wheel again.
And we should stop expecting our leaders to have charisma, AND be detail-oriented workhorses who pore over briefing documents till 3 in the morning and get up at 6. Thatcher has really poisoned the well for future leaders in that regard. It's about assembling the right team around you. We know that Penny is a good commons performer, interviews well, and does 'human' - that's three things she can do that Sunak can't.
Sorry. We are on our fifth. Why should a sixth solve the problem? Maybe the problem isn't the leader? Maybe it's the Tory Party?
Is there a magic number where changing the leader is suddenly an unforgiveable solicism? I didn't hear these arguments made much when we desperately needed to get rid of Truss at all costs.
I still think my suggestion that Sunak calls a GE and then quits as party leader should be given a try - every man and woman (and other) for themselves, and see which senior figure grabs the most support with each contender running a leadership campaign concurrent with the GE campaign, with confused Tory supporters able to find at least one to support as a reason to show up for the party.
Just finished another eleven hour shift, so up to sixty hours hours since the Bank Holiday. I think I’ll get to seventy-five for the week after working tomorrow and Monday
I popped into Waitrose on the way home and got cheap dinner (a minted pea and bacon quiche for £1.39!). On my way in, I saw Peter Mandelson at the checkout (buying sushi and what looked like stir fry ingredients). I’ve known for years that he lives nearby, but it’s the first time I’ve seen him
You should have stolen his place in the queue, after asking him if he knew who you are?
That would have been quite some manoeuvre given I didn't yet have shopping and there was an empty self checkout next to the one he was using!
I know quite a few people that have met him socially, or served him in shops, or worked at his place, and they've all liked him. Even though most of them haven't liked his politics
I’ve met him and he seemed perfectly charming. I never did understand the loathing he induced
Homophobia in the mix, I suppose.
Also, Mandelson never bothered to disguise his centrism, so the left abjured him, and he was seriously clever, and never tried to hide that either, which annoyed everyone
He would have made an excellent, Machiavellian prime minister. A British Macron
Ooh, there's a nice challenge for a warm dark evening.
How do you get Mandelson into Number Ten?
Hard to see how that happens, but yes, smart enough to do an elegant job once butterflied there.
Possibly a Starmeresque "made LotO to do an internal cleanup before handing over to the next PM,but the Conservatives collapse prematurely" job...
He's on my list of people who could maybe have made great, if controversial and unliked UK prime ministers (in my adult lifetime). For the purposes of this list I am ignoring political opinion, just sheer political skill or brainpower+charm
So far it is
1. Alex Salmond 2. Peter Mandelson 3. William Hague - if only he had waited 5-10 years 4. Ed Balls? 5. Fuck it: Michael Gove! OK he's not charming but he is smart and generally capable
If only Labour had been led by Mandelson after Blair (rather than Brown), Hague, rather than Cameron, Labour then by Ed Balls (rather than Miliband or Corbyn), and then Tories by Gove rather than Truss/Sunak
The younger Salmond would have made an excellent UK PM whenever
Hague, Ken Clarke, Gove and Portillo could have all done it in the last 25 years.
I think Portillo was the half decent one that got away.
The PCP in its infinite lack of wisdom choosing instead to give the membership a choice between a raging europhile and IDS, then resenting them for choosing IDS.
The latest Opinium survey for the Observer shows the Conservative have failed to shift the dial in Sunak’s favour, with the prime minister dropping two points in the past two weeks to a net score of -25% (24% approve, 49% disapprove).
Overall, Labour holds a healthy 14-point lead, with 42% of the vote share (+1 compared with a fortnight ago) against 28% for the Conservatives (+2). The Liberal Democrats are on 9% (-2), Reform UK is on 8% (-1) as is the Green party (+1).
Keir Starmer’s approval rating, while also negative, is far better than Sunak’s, with the Labour leader standing on -7% (28% approve, 35% disapprove).
Similarly, views about who would make the best prime minister have also remained stable – Starmer now leads with 27% choosing the Labour leader, versus 23% who prefer Sunak.
While this support could be stronger for Starmer, there is no evidence that voters are moving to Sunak as Tory strategists had hoped.
Just a 4% lead as preferred PM for Starmer hardly vast however. And 8% RefUK for the Tories to squeeze too
For the billionth time, it’s a swingba-
Oh I give up.
🏳️
HY knows this, he is just being impish!
To be fair to HY, Opinium are aiding and abetting. This “swingback” wheeze is an unmitigated disaster. If there are just 2 parties in the universe, historical trend of Con/Lab in government v Con/Lab in opposition, maybe we could forgive it. Without swingback added, this poll is likely another 26, or 25 or 24, for the Tory share and lead of 20? The best PM so off kilter with other pollsters is also swingback added? TSE posted Scottish sub sample, how does swingback work there, votes off Labour added to Tory’s? A swingback poll, sold to us as not a snapshot today as plain other pollsters, but an insight to how we vote next voting day with historical swing back added - with Libdem on just 9, reform and greens both on 8?
Anyone still using Opinium in your averages? We shouldn’t. We should forget it even exists.
I don't think Sunak is anything like such a flawed character as Boris Johnson but in terms of political electability he is far worse. He is not (yet) the liability that Liz Truss was but he is extraordinarily tone deaf to where people are at. And he becomes petulant when questioned: how dare any minion be so rude as to doubt his truth?
I have Conservative friends who really dislike him and that's not a good sign.
Good evening
Sunak is the best the conservatives have got, despite his flaws, and the mountain that the toxic legacy of Johnson and the diabolical Truss left him is a very tall order to overcome
If tonight's poll by Opinium in the Guardian is anything to go by neither Sunak or Starmer are setting the narrative alight with only 27% and 23% respectively seeing Starmer better than Sunak as PM
I expect the conservatives to pay a price at the next GE, but even Starmer's most avid fans must accept he is hardly inspiring the nation
Other pollsters also do best PM and Opinium are by far the stingiest in Starmer’s lead. Of other pollsters have recently polled this, Starmer leads Sunak 44-34 (R&W) and 37-28 (We Think) on the "better PM" question. Even in unliked outgoing governments it’s supposed to be hard for a PM to fall so far behind on this measure.
No, Sunak is not “the best the Conservatives have got” not by any measure. You are dangerously misreading this situation. Sunak is now out of touch with the public, not because he is filthy rich but because his politics and that of the government he leads has been revealed to be too dry and right wing for the UK today. He promises, over promises, and doesn’t deliver. Which makes every new promise, vow and policy, worthless. The result is voters are no longer listening to him selectively quoting and talking up we have never had it so good, and they won’t all they way up to voting day.
The scale of the Tory catastrophe at the next General Election does not rest at all on Starmer and his policy’s “inspiring the nation”, it will be based on the breadth and depth of voters no longer listening to the Conservatives, making the weeks of the election campaign all about how sleazy, useless, out of touch and dangerous the Tory Party are.
The best hope for the Conservatives now is to change these faces and voices at the top of the government to more everyday, grounded and in touch fresh faces, in order for a more aspirational message that has more broader appeal across more voters to be listened to and considered.
Hunt and Sunak cannot deliver that message, because they are no longer listened to. From here the Conservatives need to be listened to again, to save as many seats as they can. That’s why Sunak, Hunt and Braverman have to go.
I think that Sunak probably is the best person for the job, which is to lose with enough dignity that the Tories can regroup.
Funnily enough, everyone who dislikes the Tories wants Sunak to stay and 'lose with dignity' - God forbid the Tories should actually put a winner in place, nothing to upset the handover.
Who is left as a winner? Boris could have won a by-election, the fact some nobody won it shows he probably could have, and potentially be on hand at least, but they have no winners to pick from.
Though at this point they'd be more than happy if they could put May in and repeat 2017.
I don't know if anyone could win from here, but they could at least be trying to do so. Sunak doesn't seem to have any ambitions to try to reach out to more people, just a pure core vote strategy.
I'll repost my exercise from earlier this week. Curious how others would rate potential alternative leaders as potentially better or worse than Sunak.
Tory MPs who might be better than Sunak, in my personal view:
Not put down Javid or Wallace as they're standing down.
Bizarrely, I almost agree with your list. I would not include Dowden nor McVey.
Gove would be unpopular but also innovative and energetic. Mordaunt is an empty vessel who'd be found out pretty quickly.
Tugendhat is interesting. Question if he could grow into the job. Hunt would be like Sunak.
FWIW, I think we should stick with Sunak. The problem can't be fixed by constant spinning the roulette wheel on the leader.
Given that the problem is the leader, of course it would be fixed by spinning the wheel again.
And we should stop expecting our leaders to have charisma, AND be detail-oriented workhorses who pore over briefing documents till 3 in the morning and get up at 6. Thatcher has really poisoned the well for future leaders in that regard. It's about assembling the right team around you. We know that Penny is a good commons performer, interviews well, and does 'human' - that's three things she can do that Sunak can't.
Sorry. We are on our fifth. Why should a sixth solve the problem? Maybe the problem isn't the leader? Maybe it's the Tory Party?
Is there a magic number where changing the leader is suddenly an unforgiveable solicism? I didn't hear these arguments made much when we desperately needed to get rid of Truss at all costs.
Except they were. It was a joke then, and would be beyond a farce now.
I don't think Sunak is anything like such a flawed character as Boris Johnson but in terms of political electability he is far worse. He is not (yet) the liability that Liz Truss was but he is extraordinarily tone deaf to where people are at. And he becomes petulant when questioned: how dare any minion be so rude as to doubt his truth?
I have Conservative friends who really dislike him and that's not a good sign.
Good evening
Sunak is the best the conservatives have got, despite his flaws, and the mountain that the toxic legacy of Johnson and the diabolical Truss left him is a very tall order to overcome
If tonight's poll by Opinium in the Guardian is anything to go by neither Sunak or Starmer are setting the narrative alight with only 27% and 23% respectively seeing Starmer better than Sunak as PM
I expect the conservatives to pay a price at the next GE, but even Starmer's most avid fans must accept he is hardly inspiring the nation
Other pollsters also do best PM and Opinium are by far the stingiest in Starmer’s lead. Of other pollsters have recently polled this, Starmer leads Sunak 44-34 (R&W) and 37-28 (We Think) on the "better PM" question. Even in unliked outgoing governments it’s supposed to be hard for a PM to fall so far behind on this measure.
No, Sunak is not “the best the Conservatives have got” not by any measure. You are dangerously misreading this situation. Sunak is now out of touch with the public, not because he is filthy rich but because his politics and that of the government he leads has been revealed to be too dry and right wing for the UK today. He promises, over promises, and doesn’t deliver. Which makes every new promise, vow and policy, worthless. The result is voters are no longer listening to him selectively quoting and talking up we have never had it so good, and they won’t all they way up to voting day.
The scale of the Tory catastrophe at the next General Election does not rest at all on Starmer and his policy’s “inspiring the nation”, it will be based on the breadth and depth of voters no longer listening to the Conservatives, making the weeks of the election campaign all about how sleazy, useless, out of touch and dangerous the Tory Party are.
The best hope for the Conservatives now is to change these faces and voices at the top of the government to more everyday, grounded and in touch fresh faces, in order for a more aspirational message that has more broader appeal across more voters to be listened to and considered.
Hunt and Sunak cannot deliver that message, because they are no longer listened to. From here the Conservatives need to be listened to again, to save as many seats as they can. That’s why Sunak, Hunt and Braverman have to go.
I think that Sunak probably is the best person for the job, which is to lose with enough dignity that the Tories can regroup.
Funnily enough, everyone who dislikes the Tories wants Sunak to stay and 'lose with dignity' - God forbid the Tories should actually put a winner in place, nothing to upset the handover.
Who is left as a winner? Boris could have won a by-election, the fact some nobody won it shows he probably could have, and potentially be on hand at least, but they have no winners to pick from.
Though at this point they'd be more than happy if they could put May in and repeat 2017.
I don't know if anyone could win from here, but they could at least be trying to do so. Sunak doesn't seem to have any ambitions to try to reach out to more people, just a pure core vote strategy.
I'll repost my exercise from earlier this week. Curious how others would rate potential alternative leaders as potentially better or worse than Sunak.
Tory MPs who might be better than Sunak, in my personal view:
Not put down Javid or Wallace as they're standing down.
Bizarrely, I almost agree with your list. I would not include Dowden nor McVey.
Gove would be unpopular but also innovative and energetic. Mordaunt is an empty vessel who'd be found out pretty quickly.
Tugendhat is interesting. Question if he could grow into the job. Hunt would be like Sunak.
FWIW, I think we should stick with Sunak. The problem can't be fixed by constant spinning the roulette wheel on the leader.
Given that the problem is the leader, of course it would be fixed by spinning the wheel again.
And we should stop expecting our leaders to have charisma, AND be detail-oriented workhorses who pore over briefing documents till 3 in the morning and get up at 6. Thatcher has really poisoned the well for future leaders in that regard. It's about assembling the right team around you. We know that Penny is a good commons performer, interviews well, and does 'human' - that's three things she can do that Sunak can't.
Sorry. We are on our fifth. Why should a sixth solve the problem? Maybe the problem isn't the leader? Maybe it's the Tory Party?
Is there a magic number where changing the leader is suddenly an unforgiveable solicism? I didn't hear these arguments made much when we desperately needed to get rid of Truss at all costs.
I think you'll find I was saying the problem was actually the Tory Party, and not its leadership then. I wasn't alone in that.
I don't think Sunak is anything like such a flawed character as Boris Johnson but in terms of political electability he is far worse. He is not (yet) the liability that Liz Truss was but he is extraordinarily tone deaf to where people are at. And he becomes petulant when questioned: how dare any minion be so rude as to doubt his truth?
I have Conservative friends who really dislike him and that's not a good sign.
Good evening
Sunak is the best the conservatives have got, despite his flaws, and the mountain that the toxic legacy of Johnson and the diabolical Truss left him is a very tall order to overcome
If tonight's poll by Opinium in the Guardian is anything to go by neither Sunak or Starmer are setting the narrative alight with only 27% and 23% respectively seeing Starmer better than Sunak as PM
I expect the conservatives to pay a price at the next GE, but even Starmer's most avid fans must accept he is hardly inspiring the nation
Other pollsters also do best PM and Opinium are by far the stingiest in Starmer’s lead. Of other pollsters have recently polled this, Starmer leads Sunak 44-34 (R&W) and 37-28 (We Think) on the "better PM" question. Even in unliked outgoing governments it’s supposed to be hard for a PM to fall so far behind on this measure.
No, Sunak is not “the best the Conservatives have got” not by any measure. You are dangerously misreading this situation. Sunak is now out of touch with the public, not because he is filthy rich but because his politics and that of the government he leads has been revealed to be too dry and right wing for the UK today. He promises, over promises, and doesn’t deliver. Which makes every new promise, vow and policy, worthless. The result is voters are no longer listening to him selectively quoting and talking up we have never had it so good, and they won’t all they way up to voting day.
The scale of the Tory catastrophe at the next General Election does not rest at all on Starmer and his policy’s “inspiring the nation”, it will be based on the breadth and depth of voters no longer listening to the Conservatives, making the weeks of the election campaign all about how sleazy, useless, out of touch and dangerous the Tory Party are.
The best hope for the Conservatives now is to change these faces and voices at the top of the government to more everyday, grounded and in touch fresh faces, in order for a more aspirational message that has more broader appeal across more voters to be listened to and considered.
Hunt and Sunak cannot deliver that message, because they are no longer listened to. From here the Conservatives need to be listened to again, to save as many seats as they can. That’s why Sunak, Hunt and Braverman have to go.
I think that Sunak probably is the best person for the job, which is to lose with enough dignity that the Tories can regroup.
Funnily enough, everyone who dislikes the Tories wants Sunak to stay and 'lose with dignity' - God forbid the Tories should actually put a winner in place, nothing to upset the handover.
Who is left as a winner? Boris could have won a by-election, the fact some nobody won it shows he probably could have, and potentially be on hand at least, but they have no winners to pick from.
Though at this point they'd be more than happy if they could put May in and repeat 2017.
I don't know if anyone could win from here, but they could at least be trying to do so. Sunak doesn't seem to have any ambitions to try to reach out to more people, just a pure core vote strategy.
I'll repost my exercise from earlier this week. Curious how others would rate potential alternative leaders as potentially better or worse than Sunak.
Tory MPs who might be better than Sunak, in my personal view:
Not put down Javid or Wallace as they're standing down.
Bizarrely, I almost agree with your list. I would not include Dowden nor McVey.
Gove would be unpopular but also innovative and energetic. Mordaunt is an empty vessel who'd be found out pretty quickly.
Tugendhat is interesting. Question if he could grow into the job. Hunt would be like Sunak.
FWIW, I think we should stick with Sunak. The problem can't be fixed by constant spinning the roulette wheel on the leader.
Given that the problem is the leader, of course it would be fixed by spinning the wheel again.
And we should stop expecting our leaders to have charisma, AND be detail-oriented workhorses who pore over briefing documents till 3 in the morning and get up at 6. Thatcher has really poisoned the well for future leaders in that regard. It's about assembling the right team around you. We know that Penny is a good commons performer, interviews well, and does 'human' - that's three things she can do that Sunak can't.
Sorry. We are on our fifth. Why should a sixth solve the problem? Maybe the problem isn't the leader? Maybe it's the Tory Party?
Is there a magic number where changing the leader is suddenly an unforgiveable solicism? I didn't hear these arguments made much when we desperately needed to get rid of Truss at all costs.
Except they were. It was a joke then, and would be beyond a farce now.
Which is media fluff that would dissolve as soon as people realise there's a decent leader getting behind a decent electoral prospectus.
Bill Kristol @BillKristol · 7h New WSJ poll: Biden 46%, Trump 46%.
I am alarmed.
Tocqueville: "Let us therefore have that salutary fear of the future that makes one watchful and combative, and not that sort of soft and idle terror that wears hearts down and enervates them."
I don't think Sunak is anything like such a flawed character as Boris Johnson but in terms of political electability he is far worse. He is not (yet) the liability that Liz Truss was but he is extraordinarily tone deaf to where people are at. And he becomes petulant when questioned: how dare any minion be so rude as to doubt his truth?
I have Conservative friends who really dislike him and that's not a good sign.
Good evening
Sunak is the best the conservatives have got, despite his flaws, and the mountain that the toxic legacy of Johnson and the diabolical Truss left him is a very tall order to overcome
If tonight's poll by Opinium in the Guardian is anything to go by neither Sunak or Starmer are setting the narrative alight with only 27% and 23% respectively seeing Starmer better than Sunak as PM
I expect the conservatives to pay a price at the next GE, but even Starmer's most avid fans must accept he is hardly inspiring the nation
Other pollsters also do best PM and Opinium are by far the stingiest in Starmer’s lead. Of other pollsters have recently polled this, Starmer leads Sunak 44-34 (R&W) and 37-28 (We Think) on the "better PM" question. Even in unliked outgoing governments it’s supposed to be hard for a PM to fall so far behind on this measure.
No, Sunak is not “the best the Conservatives have got” not by any measure. You are dangerously misreading this situation. Sunak is now out of touch with the public, not because he is filthy rich but because his politics and that of the government he leads has been revealed to be too dry and right wing for the UK today. He promises, over promises, and doesn’t deliver. Which makes every new promise, vow and policy, worthless. The result is voters are no longer listening to him selectively quoting and talking up we have never had it so good, and they won’t all they way up to voting day.
The scale of the Tory catastrophe at the next General Election does not rest at all on Starmer and his policy’s “inspiring the nation”, it will be based on the breadth and depth of voters no longer listening to the Conservatives, making the weeks of the election campaign all about how sleazy, useless, out of touch and dangerous the Tory Party are.
The best hope for the Conservatives now is to change these faces and voices at the top of the government to more everyday, grounded and in touch fresh faces, in order for a more aspirational message that has more broader appeal across more voters to be listened to and considered.
Hunt and Sunak cannot deliver that message, because they are no longer listened to. From here the Conservatives need to be listened to again, to save as many seats as they can. That’s why Sunak, Hunt and Braverman have to go.
I think that Sunak probably is the best person for the job, which is to lose with enough dignity that the Tories can regroup.
Funnily enough, everyone who dislikes the Tories wants Sunak to stay and 'lose with dignity' - God forbid the Tories should actually put a winner in place, nothing to upset the handover.
Who is left as a winner? Boris could have won a by-election, the fact some nobody won it shows he probably could have, and potentially be on hand at least, but they have no winners to pick from.
Though at this point they'd be more than happy if they could put May in and repeat 2017.
I don't know if anyone could win from here, but they could at least be trying to do so. Sunak doesn't seem to have any ambitions to try to reach out to more people, just a pure core vote strategy.
I'll repost my exercise from earlier this week. Curious how others would rate potential alternative leaders as potentially better or worse than Sunak.
Tory MPs who might be better than Sunak, in my personal view:
Not put down Javid or Wallace as they're standing down.
Mogg would fire up the Tory core vote much like Corbyn did for the Labour core vote, even if they both turned off centrists.
The worst leaders, electorally at least, are often those who both turn off centrists and fail to fire up the base eg Ed Miliband in 2015 or Hague in 2001
If the Tories want to become electable again, they need to do what Labour have done after replacing Corbyn. They need to marginalise their extremists, including the ERG, and, if necessary remove them from the party and not be so frightened of Reform.
We are only in 2009 in terms of getting to Starmer if you want the Labour comparison. On that basis Sunak is Brown and hasn't even lost power and a general election yet!
Though for all his faults Corbyn made enough gains to get a hung parliament in 2017 and got a higher voteshare in 2017 and 2019 than either Brown did in 2010 or Ed Miliband did in 2015
Taking that approach - that Sunak is Brown (or Major), we are due to have someone half presentable, more on the wings than the predecessor but not popular enough to win back votes yet, a Hague or Ed. So perhaps someone like Cleverly. Then they go completely batshit and elect an IDS/Corbyn (Mogg). Then they turn sensible with a Starmer/Howard. Before the charismatic unifier (but Labour appear not to need this step to win).
Heck, if 1979, 1997 and 2010 are precedents, the next Conservative PM might be someone who isn't yet an MP, let alone a household name.
Starmer was first elected as an MP in 2015, Cameron in 2001, Blair in 1983. Being first elected as an MP in a second consecutive general election defeat for your party is a good stepping stone to being a future PM
Kinda makes sense. It's the earliest you can say "nothing to do with me" about the last time your lot were in power.
And that's necessary in the British system, where we set such great store by kicking the rascals out. Possibly too much store; maybe we'd be better finding a way of using downhill politicians more effectively.
Also shows - not that we needed an example but whatever I'll do it anyway - that we are still in a period of very rapid rise (and falls) for political leaders. Now if you cannot make it in your first 5 years into Cabinet or Shadow Cabinet, you might as well not bother, so you need people who have been around a little, but not too much it seems!
Looking at the list Major really was quite the rapid riser for his time, and had Corbyn become PM it'd have been the longest period from MP to PM since Churchill.
Yeas as MP before becoming PM:
Starmer(?) - 8-9 years Sunak - 7 years Truss - 12 years Johnson - 10 years (but with an 8 year gap)(others with gaps not shown) May - 19 years Cameron - 9 years Brown - 24 years Blair - 14 years Major - 11 years Thatcher - 20 years Callaghan - 31 years Heath - 20 years Wilson - 19 years Douglas-Home - 25 years (+12 as a Peer) Macmillan - 31 years Eden - 32 years Attlee - 23 years Churchill - 38 years Chamberlain - 19 years MacDonald - 14 years Baldwin - 15 years Bonar Law - 21 years Lloyd George - 26 years Asquith - 22 years Campbell-Bannerman - 37 years Balfour - 28 years Gascoyne-Cecil - 15 years (+17 as a Peer)
MPs can't manage the long game anymore, but then if they are a high flyer they don't need to.
Meanwhile, Biden has lost critical support from the coalition that helped him squeeze a narrow victory (fewer than 44,00 votes in three states) against Trump in November 2020. Independent voters, Hispanic voters, black voters, Republican voters: Consult any poll; the numbers are stunning. Strategists acknowledge some Hispanic voters are now with the GOP, but Biden’s more than 20-point drop in approval with black voters since the start of his term suggests that some of them who voted for him in 2020 might vote Republican in 2024, or sit out the election entirely.
I don't think Sunak is anything like such a flawed character as Boris Johnson but in terms of political electability he is far worse. He is not (yet) the liability that Liz Truss was but he is extraordinarily tone deaf to where people are at. And he becomes petulant when questioned: how dare any minion be so rude as to doubt his truth?
I have Conservative friends who really dislike him and that's not a good sign.
Good evening
Sunak is the best the conservatives have got, despite his flaws, and the mountain that the toxic legacy of Johnson and the diabolical Truss left him is a very tall order to overcome
If tonight's poll by Opinium in the Guardian is anything to go by neither Sunak or Starmer are setting the narrative alight with only 27% and 23% respectively seeing Starmer better than Sunak as PM
I expect the conservatives to pay a price at the next GE, but even Starmer's most avid fans must accept he is hardly inspiring the nation
Other pollsters also do best PM and Opinium are by far the stingiest in Starmer’s lead. Of other pollsters have recently polled this, Starmer leads Sunak 44-34 (R&W) and 37-28 (We Think) on the "better PM" question. Even in unliked outgoing governments it’s supposed to be hard for a PM to fall so far behind on this measure.
No, Sunak is not “the best the Conservatives have got” not by any measure. You are dangerously misreading this situation. Sunak is now out of touch with the public, not because he is filthy rich but because his politics and that of the government he leads has been revealed to be too dry and right wing for the UK today. He promises, over promises, and doesn’t deliver. Which makes every new promise, vow and policy, worthless. The result is voters are no longer listening to him selectively quoting and talking up we have never had it so good, and they won’t all they way up to voting day.
The scale of the Tory catastrophe at the next General Election does not rest at all on Starmer and his policy’s “inspiring the nation”, it will be based on the breadth and depth of voters no longer listening to the Conservatives, making the weeks of the election campaign all about how sleazy, useless, out of touch and dangerous the Tory Party are.
The best hope for the Conservatives now is to change these faces and voices at the top of the government to more everyday, grounded and in touch fresh faces, in order for a more aspirational message that has more broader appeal across more voters to be listened to and considered.
Hunt and Sunak cannot deliver that message, because they are no longer listened to. From here the Conservatives need to be listened to again, to save as many seats as they can. That’s why Sunak, Hunt and Braverman have to go.
I think that Sunak probably is the best person for the job, which is to lose with enough dignity that the Tories can regroup.
Funnily enough, everyone who dislikes the Tories wants Sunak to stay and 'lose with dignity' - God forbid the Tories should actually put a winner in place, nothing to upset the handover.
Who is left as a winner? Boris could have won a by-election, the fact some nobody won it shows he probably could have, and potentially be on hand at least, but they have no winners to pick from.
Though at this point they'd be more than happy if they could put May in and repeat 2017.
I don't know if anyone could win from here, but they could at least be trying to do so. Sunak doesn't seem to have any ambitions to try to reach out to more people, just a pure core vote strategy.
I'll repost my exercise from earlier this week. Curious how others would rate potential alternative leaders as potentially better or worse than Sunak.
Tory MPs who might be better than Sunak, in my personal view:
Not put down Javid or Wallace as they're standing down.
Bizarrely, I almost agree with your list. I would not include Dowden nor McVey.
Gove would be unpopular but also innovative and energetic. Mordaunt is an empty vessel who'd be found out pretty quickly.
Tugendhat is interesting. Question if he could grow into the job. Hunt would be like Sunak.
FWIW, I think we should stick with Sunak. The problem can't be fixed by constant spinning the roulette wheel on the leader.
Given that the problem is the leader, of course it would be fixed by spinning the wheel again.
And we should stop expecting our leaders to have charisma, AND be detail-oriented workhorses who pore over briefing documents till 3 in the morning and get up at 6. Thatcher has really poisoned the well for future leaders in that regard. It's about assembling the right team around you. We know that Penny is a good commons performer, interviews well, and does 'human' - that's three things she can do that Sunak can't.
Sorry. We are on our fifth. Why should a sixth solve the problem? Maybe the problem isn't the leader? Maybe it's the Tory Party?
Is there a magic number where changing the leader is suddenly an unforgiveable solicism? I didn't hear these arguments made much when we desperately needed to get rid of Truss at all costs.
Except they were. It was a joke then, and would be beyond a farce now.
Two reasons why it's bad.
First, it rubs voters noses in the fact that General Election manifestoes aren't all that decisive. Once a party has a majority, it can mostly do whatever it damn well pleases. If I'd voted for Johnsonism, I suspect I'd be pretty narked about getting Trussism or Sunakism.
Second, and more importantly, it makes the governing party look clueless. If you can't choose a leader and stick to that, what does that say about the decisions you take running the country?
It's not a simple binary that N changes is OK, but N+1 isn't. But each midterm change has a cost for the party doing it, and those costs add up.
Once a parliament seems to be accepted (WIlson/Callaghan, Thatcher/Major, Blair/Brown, Cameron/May, May/Johnson). Two is pushing it (Johnson/Truss/Sunak). But I suspect that not even the British Electorate can swallow three Shredded Wheat unelected Prime Ministers.
I don't think Sunak is anything like such a flawed character as Boris Johnson but in terms of political electability he is far worse. He is not (yet) the liability that Liz Truss was but he is extraordinarily tone deaf to where people are at. And he becomes petulant when questioned: how dare any minion be so rude as to doubt his truth?
I have Conservative friends who really dislike him and that's not a good sign.
Good evening
Sunak is the best the conservatives have got, despite his flaws, and the mountain that the toxic legacy of Johnson and the diabolical Truss left him is a very tall order to overcome
If tonight's poll by Opinium in the Guardian is anything to go by neither Sunak or Starmer are setting the narrative alight with only 27% and 23% respectively seeing Starmer better than Sunak as PM
I expect the conservatives to pay a price at the next GE, but even Starmer's most avid fans must accept he is hardly inspiring the nation
Other pollsters also do best PM and Opinium are by far the stingiest in Starmer’s lead. Of other pollsters have recently polled this, Starmer leads Sunak 44-34 (R&W) and 37-28 (We Think) on the "better PM" question. Even in unliked outgoing governments it’s supposed to be hard for a PM to fall so far behind on this measure.
No, Sunak is not “the best the Conservatives have got” not by any measure. You are dangerously misreading this situation. Sunak is now out of touch with the public, not because he is filthy rich but because his politics and that of the government he leads has been revealed to be too dry and right wing for the UK today. He promises, over promises, and doesn’t deliver. Which makes every new promise, vow and policy, worthless. The result is voters are no longer listening to him selectively quoting and talking up we have never had it so good, and they won’t all they way up to voting day.
The scale of the Tory catastrophe at the next General Election does not rest at all on Starmer and his policy’s “inspiring the nation”, it will be based on the breadth and depth of voters no longer listening to the Conservatives, making the weeks of the election campaign all about how sleazy, useless, out of touch and dangerous the Tory Party are.
The best hope for the Conservatives now is to change these faces and voices at the top of the government to more everyday, grounded and in touch fresh faces, in order for a more aspirational message that has more broader appeal across more voters to be listened to and considered.
Hunt and Sunak cannot deliver that message, because they are no longer listened to. From here the Conservatives need to be listened to again, to save as many seats as they can. That’s why Sunak, Hunt and Braverman have to go.
I think that Sunak probably is the best person for the job, which is to lose with enough dignity that the Tories can regroup.
Funnily enough, everyone who dislikes the Tories wants Sunak to stay and 'lose with dignity' - God forbid the Tories should actually put a winner in place, nothing to upset the handover.
Who is left as a winner? Boris could have won a by-election, the fact some nobody won it shows he probably could have, and potentially be on hand at least, but they have no winners to pick from.
Though at this point they'd be more than happy if they could put May in and repeat 2017.
I don't know if anyone could win from here, but they could at least be trying to do so. Sunak doesn't seem to have any ambitions to try to reach out to more people, just a pure core vote strategy.
I'll repost my exercise from earlier this week. Curious how others would rate potential alternative leaders as potentially better or worse than Sunak.
Tory MPs who might be better than Sunak, in my personal view:
Bill Kristol @BillKristol · 7h New WSJ poll: Biden 46%, Trump 46%.
I am alarmed.
Tocqueville: "Let us therefore have that salutary fear of the future that makes one watchful and combative, and not that sort of soft and idle terror that wears hearts down and enervates them."
Until the results of Trump's court cases are known head to head polling v Biden means little.
If he is convicted the polling shows most Independents will dump Trump like a stone, if he is not convicted then most likely he will return to the White House again
I don't think Sunak is anything like such a flawed character as Boris Johnson but in terms of political electability he is far worse. He is not (yet) the liability that Liz Truss was but he is extraordinarily tone deaf to where people are at. And he becomes petulant when questioned: how dare any minion be so rude as to doubt his truth?
I have Conservative friends who really dislike him and that's not a good sign.
Good evening
Sunak is the best the conservatives have got, despite his flaws, and the mountain that the toxic legacy of Johnson and the diabolical Truss left him is a very tall order to overcome
If tonight's poll by Opinium in the Guardian is anything to go by neither Sunak or Starmer are setting the narrative alight with only 27% and 23% respectively seeing Starmer better than Sunak as PM
I expect the conservatives to pay a price at the next GE, but even Starmer's most avid fans must accept he is hardly inspiring the nation
Other pollsters also do best PM and Opinium are by far the stingiest in Starmer’s lead. Of other pollsters have recently polled this, Starmer leads Sunak 44-34 (R&W) and 37-28 (We Think) on the "better PM" question. Even in unliked outgoing governments it’s supposed to be hard for a PM to fall so far behind on this measure.
No, Sunak is not “the best the Conservatives have got” not by any measure. You are dangerously misreading this situation. Sunak is now out of touch with the public, not because he is filthy rich but because his politics and that of the government he leads has been revealed to be too dry and right wing for the UK today. He promises, over promises, and doesn’t deliver. Which makes every new promise, vow and policy, worthless. The result is voters are no longer listening to him selectively quoting and talking up we have never had it so good, and they won’t all they way up to voting day.
The scale of the Tory catastrophe at the next General Election does not rest at all on Starmer and his policy’s “inspiring the nation”, it will be based on the breadth and depth of voters no longer listening to the Conservatives, making the weeks of the election campaign all about how sleazy, useless, out of touch and dangerous the Tory Party are.
The best hope for the Conservatives now is to change these faces and voices at the top of the government to more everyday, grounded and in touch fresh faces, in order for a more aspirational message that has more broader appeal across more voters to be listened to and considered.
Hunt and Sunak cannot deliver that message, because they are no longer listened to. From here the Conservatives need to be listened to again, to save as many seats as they can. That’s why Sunak, Hunt and Braverman have to go.
I think that Sunak probably is the best person for the job, which is to lose with enough dignity that the Tories can regroup.
Funnily enough, everyone who dislikes the Tories wants Sunak to stay and 'lose with dignity' - God forbid the Tories should actually put a winner in place, nothing to upset the handover.
Who is left as a winner? Boris could have won a by-election, the fact some nobody won it shows he probably could have, and potentially be on hand at least, but they have no winners to pick from.
Though at this point they'd be more than happy if they could put May in and repeat 2017.
I don't know if anyone could win from here, but they could at least be trying to do so. Sunak doesn't seem to have any ambitions to try to reach out to more people, just a pure core vote strategy.
I'll repost my exercise from earlier this week. Curious how others would rate potential alternative leaders as potentially better or worse than Sunak.
Tory MPs who might be better than Sunak, in my personal view:
Not put down Javid or Wallace as they're standing down.
Bizarrely, I almost agree with your list. I would not include Dowden nor McVey.
Gove would be unpopular but also innovative and energetic. Mordaunt is an empty vessel who'd be found out pretty quickly.
Tugendhat is interesting. Question if he could grow into the job. Hunt would be like Sunak.
FWIW, I think we should stick with Sunak. The problem can't be fixed by constant spinning the roulette wheel on the leader.
But if you game the honeymoon to perfection you have a winning window. It might be a very small window, but if you time it right the gravy train rolls along for another 5 years.
Bill Kristol @BillKristol · 7h New WSJ poll: Biden 46%, Trump 46%.
I am alarmed.
Tocqueville: "Let us therefore have that salutary fear of the future that makes one watchful and combative, and not that sort of soft and idle terror that wears hearts down and enervates them."
Until the results of Trump's court cases are known head to head polling v Biden means little.
If he is convicted the polling shows most Independents will dump Trump like a stone, if he is not convicted then most likely he will return to the White House again
I don't think it means nothing, because one would hope his admitted conduct even if not criminal would still be a barrier to the job for independents and those wavering voters - he did seek to prevent the transfer of power after all, whether he crossed over into criminality in doing so or not.
It's still worrying that he is running neck and neck (which could be enough to win if it pans out) with all those issues, even if it becomes true that his support will drop if he is actually convicted.
I don't think Sunak is anything like such a flawed character as Boris Johnson but in terms of political electability he is far worse. He is not (yet) the liability that Liz Truss was but he is extraordinarily tone deaf to where people are at. And he becomes petulant when questioned: how dare any minion be so rude as to doubt his truth?
I have Conservative friends who really dislike him and that's not a good sign.
Good evening
Sunak is the best the conservatives have got, despite his flaws, and the mountain that the toxic legacy of Johnson and the diabolical Truss left him is a very tall order to overcome
If tonight's poll by Opinium in the Guardian is anything to go by neither Sunak or Starmer are setting the narrative alight with only 27% and 23% respectively seeing Starmer better than Sunak as PM
I expect the conservatives to pay a price at the next GE, but even Starmer's most avid fans must accept he is hardly inspiring the nation
Other pollsters also do best PM and Opinium are by far the stingiest in Starmer’s lead. Of other pollsters have recently polled this, Starmer leads Sunak 44-34 (R&W) and 37-28 (We Think) on the "better PM" question. Even in unliked outgoing governments it’s supposed to be hard for a PM to fall so far behind on this measure.
No, Sunak is not “the best the Conservatives have got” not by any measure. You are dangerously misreading this situation. Sunak is now out of touch with the public, not because he is filthy rich but because his politics and that of the government he leads has been revealed to be too dry and right wing for the UK today. He promises, over promises, and doesn’t deliver. Which makes every new promise, vow and policy, worthless. The result is voters are no longer listening to him selectively quoting and talking up we have never had it so good, and they won’t all they way up to voting day.
The scale of the Tory catastrophe at the next General Election does not rest at all on Starmer and his policy’s “inspiring the nation”, it will be based on the breadth and depth of voters no longer listening to the Conservatives, making the weeks of the election campaign all about how sleazy, useless, out of touch and dangerous the Tory Party are.
The best hope for the Conservatives now is to change these faces and voices at the top of the government to more everyday, grounded and in touch fresh faces, in order for a more aspirational message that has more broader appeal across more voters to be listened to and considered.
Hunt and Sunak cannot deliver that message, because they are no longer listened to. From here the Conservatives need to be listened to again, to save as many seats as they can. That’s why Sunak, Hunt and Braverman have to go.
I think that Sunak probably is the best person for the job, which is to lose with enough dignity that the Tories can regroup.
Funnily enough, everyone who dislikes the Tories wants Sunak to stay and 'lose with dignity' - God forbid the Tories should actually put a winner in place, nothing to upset the handover.
Who is left as a winner? Boris could have won a by-election, the fact some nobody won it shows he probably could have, and potentially be on hand at least, but they have no winners to pick from.
Though at this point they'd be more than happy if they could put May in and repeat 2017.
I don't know if anyone could win from here, but they could at least be trying to do so. Sunak doesn't seem to have any ambitions to try to reach out to more people, just a pure core vote strategy.
I'll repost my exercise from earlier this week. Curious how others would rate potential alternative leaders as potentially better or worse than Sunak.
Tory MPs who might be better than Sunak, in my personal view:
Not put down Javid or Wallace as they're standing down.
Bizarrely, I almost agree with your list. I would not include Dowden nor McVey.
Gove would be unpopular but also innovative and energetic. Mordaunt is an empty vessel who'd be found out pretty quickly.
Tugendhat is interesting. Question if he could grow into the job. Hunt would be like Sunak.
FWIW, I think we should stick with Sunak. The problem can't be fixed by constant spinning the roulette wheel on the leader.
Given that the problem is the leader, of course it would be fixed by spinning the wheel again.
And we should stop expecting our leaders to have charisma, AND be detail-oriented workhorses who pore over briefing documents till 3 in the morning and get up at 6. Thatcher has really poisoned the well for future leaders in that regard. It's about assembling the right team around you. We know that Penny is a good commons performer, interviews well, and does 'human' - that's three things she can do that Sunak can't.
Sorry. We are on our fifth. Why should a sixth solve the problem? Maybe the problem isn't the leader? Maybe it's the Tory Party?
Is there a magic number where changing the leader is suddenly an unforgiveable solicism? I didn't hear these arguments made much when we desperately needed to get rid of Truss at all costs.
Except they were. It was a joke then, and would be beyond a farce now.
Two reasons why it's bad.
First, it rubs voters noses in the fact that General Election manifestoes aren't all that decisive. Once a party has a majority, it can mostly do whatever it damn well pleases. If I'd voted for Johnsonism, I suspect I'd be pretty narked about getting Trussism or Sunakism.
Second, and more importantly, it makes the governing party look clueless. If you can't choose a leader and stick to that, what does that say about the decisions you take running the country?
It's not a simple binary that N changes is OK, but N+1 isn't. But each midterm change has a cost for the party doing it, and those costs add up.
Once a parliament seems to be accepted (WIlson/Callaghan, Thatcher/Major, Blair/Brown, Cameron/May, May/Johnson). Two is pushing it (Johnson/Truss/Sunak). But I suspect that not even the British Electorate can swallow three Shredded Wheat unelected Prime Ministers.
I mean if Sunak [metaphorically but so comprehensively that he almost] literally blew his premiership up, as Lucky's gal did, they would have to do it. But, as then, it would be beyond ridiculous.
I'd suggest those escalating costs are not linear either. Not sure if they compound, follow the nth power or exponent, but something along those lines. (EDIT: or curves)
Bill Kristol @BillKristol · 7h New WSJ poll: Biden 46%, Trump 46%.
I am alarmed.
Tocqueville: "Let us therefore have that salutary fear of the future that makes one watchful and combative, and not that sort of soft and idle terror that wears hearts down and enervates them."
Sunak continues to misunderstand how to communicate.
People still think his pledge to halve inflation means prices will fall.
This is not his issue. The issue is he pretends he is a safe pair of hands, is focused on the things the electorate care about, and that everything’s on the right track.
In reality he is a do-nothing with a petulant streak, and his main contribution to politics is letting Lee Anderson, Suella Braverman and others fight culture wars.
Did one get in the way of his motorcade? This is a frighteningly trivial issue that “affects” an incredibly small number of people.
True, but it's mostly tourists. Being a country which allows tourists to be ripped off probably doesn't stop people coming (see Rome, Barcelona et al.) but it's not a great look.
Did one get in the way of his motorcade? This is a frighteningly trivial issue that “affects” an incredibly small number of people.
True, but it's mostly tourists. Being a country which allows tourists to be ripped off probably doesn't stop people coming (see Rome, Barcelona et al.) but it's not a great look.
Bill Kristol @BillKristol · 7h New WSJ poll: Biden 46%, Trump 46%.
I am alarmed.
Tocqueville: "Let us therefore have that salutary fear of the future that makes one watchful and combative, and not that sort of soft and idle terror that wears hearts down and enervates them."
Until the results of Trump's court cases are known head to head polling v Biden means little.
If he is convicted the polling shows most Independents will dump Trump like a stone, if he is not convicted then most likely he will return to the White House again
Er... isn't it most likely that none of the court case will have reached a conclusion by November 2024?
Did one get in the way of his motorcade? This is a frighteningly trivial issue that “affects” an incredibly small number of people.
True, but it's mostly tourists. Being a country which allows tourists to be ripped off probably doesn't stop people coming (see Rome, Barcelona et al.) but it's not a great look.
Just finished another eleven hour shift, so up to sixty hours hours since the Bank Holiday. I think I’ll get to seventy-five for the week after working tomorrow and Monday
I popped into Waitrose on the way home and got cheap dinner (a minted pea and bacon quiche for £1.39!). On my way in, I saw Peter Mandelson at the checkout (buying sushi and what looked like stir fry ingredients). I’ve known for years that he lives nearby, but it’s the first time I’ve seen him
You should have stolen his place in the queue, after asking him if he knew who you are?
That would have been quite some manoeuvre given I didn't yet have shopping and there was an empty self checkout next to the one he was using!
I know quite a few people that have met him socially, or served him in shops, or worked at his place, and they've all liked him. Even though most of them haven't liked his politics
I’ve met him and he seemed perfectly charming. I never did understand the loathing he induced
Homophobia in the mix, I suppose.
Also, Mandelson never bothered to disguise his centrism, so the left abjured him, and he was seriously clever, and never tried to hide that either, which annoyed everyone
He would have made an excellent, Machiavellian prime minister. A British Macron
Did one get in the way of his motorcade? This is a frighteningly trivial issue that “affects” an incredibly small number of people.
True, but it's mostly tourists. Being a country which allows tourists to be ripped off probably doesn't stop people coming (see Rome, Barcelona et al.) but it's not a great look.
Sunak needs to broaden the issue. He should focus on stopping rip-off pedicab drivers who are in favour of ULEZ, carry zombie knives, and have arrived in this country on small boats. (I couldn't contribute earlier this evening, as I never met Hitler).
Sunak continues to misunderstand how to communicate.
People still think his pledge to halve inflation means prices will fall.
They are aware inflation is going upwards in Septembers figures aren’t they?
He may well hit his 5% inflation goal early next year but no one will notice because he has made Small Boats the dominant issue and he can't solve that.
Bill Kristol @BillKristol · 7h New WSJ poll: Biden 46%, Trump 46%.
I am alarmed.
Tocqueville: "Let us therefore have that salutary fear of the future that makes one watchful and combative, and not that sort of soft and idle terror that wears hearts down and enervates them."
Until the results of Trump's court cases are known head to head polling v Biden means little.
If he is convicted the polling shows most Independents will dump Trump like a stone, if he is not convicted then most likely he will return to the White House again
Er... isn't it most likely that none of the court case will have reached a conclusion by November 2024?
Well, several have been set with sufficient time to reach an initial conclusion, ie conviction, though whether several will be pushed back due to a blizzard of pre-trial motions to deal with or a friendly judge, which would prevent them from taking place as currently scheduled, who knows.
It does seem entirely likely even if he is convicted in any of them he will be out pending appeal by November, and if he wins that he will never serve a day in prison.
These Trump polls smell off to me. But that’s also what I want to believe.
Why he should be showing an appreciable rise in black support is absolutely beyond me.
IIUC he increased black support between 2016 and 2020. I think part of this is just a long history of racial division (very slowly) healing: It's weird to have everybody of one race voting for the same party. As race becomes a less important factor, right-wing black people will increasingly vote for the right-wing candidate.
Sunak continues to misunderstand how to communicate.
People still think his pledge to halve inflation means prices will fall.
They are aware inflation is going upwards in Septembers figures aren’t they?
He may well hit his 5% inflation goal early next year but no one will notice because he has made Small Boats the dominant issue and he can't solve that.
Moreover, British inflation is higher than in the US or EU, so even when he finally hits his target it won’t look terribly impressive.
“Disappointed by what he sees as Democrats' lurch to the left, free spending and empty promises…”
Which I just find a bizarre notion. Biden has been a moderate President and the economy is relatively successful.
The US Left were really disappointed that Biden won the nomination, and presumably are not super enanamoured of him now. They'll vote for him, sure, but not due to general 'progressive' credentials.
I don't think Sunak is anything like such a flawed character as Boris Johnson but in terms of political electability he is far worse. He is not (yet) the liability that Liz Truss was but he is extraordinarily tone deaf to where people are at. And he becomes petulant when questioned: how dare any minion be so rude as to doubt his truth?
I have Conservative friends who really dislike him and that's not a good sign.
Good evening
Sunak is the best the conservatives have got, despite his flaws, and the mountain that the toxic legacy of Johnson and the diabolical Truss left him is a very tall order to overcome
If tonight's poll by Opinium in the Guardian is anything to go by neither Sunak or Starmer are setting the narrative alight with only 27% and 23% respectively seeing Starmer better than Sunak as PM
I expect the conservatives to pay a price at the next GE, but even Starmer's most avid fans must accept he is hardly inspiring the nation
Other pollsters also do best PM and Opinium are by far the stingiest in Starmer’s lead. Of other pollsters have recently polled this, Starmer leads Sunak 44-34 (R&W) and 37-28 (We Think) on the "better PM" question. Even in unliked outgoing governments it’s supposed to be hard for a PM to fall so far behind on this measure.
No, Sunak is not “the best the Conservatives have got” not by any measure. You are dangerously misreading this situation. Sunak is now out of touch with the public, not because he is filthy rich but because his politics and that of the government he leads has been revealed to be too dry and right wing for the UK today. He promises, over promises, and doesn’t deliver. Which makes every new promise, vow and policy, worthless. The result is voters are no longer listening to him selectively quoting and talking up we have never had it so good, and they won’t all they way up to voting day.
The scale of the Tory catastrophe at the next General Election does not rest at all on Starmer and his policy’s “inspiring the nation”, it will be based on the breadth and depth of voters no longer listening to the Conservatives, making the weeks of the election campaign all about how sleazy, useless, out of touch and dangerous the Tory Party are.
The best hope for the Conservatives now is to change these faces and voices at the top of the government to more everyday, grounded and in touch fresh faces, in order for a more aspirational message that has more broader appeal across more voters to be listened to and considered.
Hunt and Sunak cannot deliver that message, because they are no longer listened to. From here the Conservatives need to be listened to again, to save as many seats as they can. That’s why Sunak, Hunt and Braverman have to go.
I think that Sunak probably is the best person for the job, which is to lose with enough dignity that the Tories can regroup.
Funnily enough, everyone who dislikes the Tories wants Sunak to stay and 'lose with dignity' - God forbid the Tories should actually put a winner in place, nothing to upset the handover.
COULD TRUSS REALLY MAKE A COMEBACK ????
We need a header on this compelling prospect ....
Despite limp-dicked comedy attacks on her tenure falling increasingly flat, given that she was done in for 'causing' bond-yields to rise to the dangerous highs of, um, half what they are now, Truss has never suggested that she wants to make a political comeback. Unlike the current incumbent, she knows that she'd be doing the Tory cause more harm than good.
Sunak may be a dud, but a net favourability score of -25 still beats Liz Truss on -70. Liz Truss, who by the way firmly believes her catastrophic premiership was the fault of everyone else apart from her, is the most farcically deluded prime minister of them all.
Comments
Remain got 48.1% in 2016, Trump only got 46.9% in 2020!
Corbyn lost twice which is why Starmer got more of a chance than Howard on a time for change basis
"It was offside," admitted Haaland in an interview with beIN SPORTS after full-time. "I feel bad for them - I would be fuming after this as well. It must be a horrible feeling."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66698436
"...A Saudi court has sentenced a retired teacher to death for criticising the ruling family in messages to his nine social media followers. According to Human Rights Watch, 54-year-old Mohammed al-Ghamdi was sentenced to death on July 10 for various offences related to his activity on YouTube and X, formerly known as Twitter. The ruling may be the first death sentence for social media posts..."
Full Story: https://ground.news/article/befc502b-4b13-4a8c-b450-7a97542f0d76
See also: https://www.youtube.com/post/Ugkxbq47N9yYk-BB8eq5zYVQBUIJmLAsTpPg
For me, I find this most difficult with the Khmer Rouge. Probably because I have living memory of this genocide (for that it was), and I have personal friends who experienced the Khmer Rouge, and I have met people who actually survived Tuol Sleng (ie unlike 99.9999% of all others) and I have traveled widely in Cambodia and spoken to dozens of people whose lives were destroyed by the KR, and their families - children, siblings, parents - tortured and starved to death
It is hard to get around that. Yet I have wise friends who have interviewed old KR leaders like Khieu Samphan and Ieng Sary and they have told me, in the past, that they are "charming, urbane, speak great French, crack good jokes, and they are charismatic"
This makes me want to puke. But so it is
We need a header on this compelling prospect ....
Politically, anti Truss Tory MPs talked up all these difficulties, and spun it and lied, in order to undermine and remove Truss. It wasn’t the budget which politically damaged the Tories to the depth they havn’t recovered from, it was the blue on blue assassination of leader the membership had voted for.
I’m not politically daft, other things were at play. Truss and Kwarteng were the worst communicators in the history of politics. And the maxi size of UK borrowing and debt burden did mean tax cutting budget did spook the market too. Also what spooked the markets, the cost of Truss two and half year relief fund, slashed to just 6 months on Hunt’s first day. But its oh too politically cosy for both HY on one hand and CHB the other to spout the same spin and lies about impact of Truss, we lose the true history.
She led the Tories to their lowest poll rating in history last autumn
This diversion has revealed to me that Cambodia has somehow also managed to develop a hereditary monarchy within a monarchy, as longstanding PM Hun Sen has recently resigned after 38 years to be replaced by his son Hun Manet, though he seems to still be running things.
I wanted to see who would be dim enough to get all het up and say AH WE HAVE SEEN HITLER AGE 7 ON YOUR LAPTOP, HAHAHAHA YOU ARE A NAZI
You can believe me or not, I just want this noted fot the British Library archivist filing this away for posteirty. Also, not realsing it was a joke is a basic IQ fail. Sorry, but it is
Tugendhat is interesting. Question if he could grow into the job. Hunt would be like Sunak.
FWIW, I think we should stick with Sunak. The problem can't be fixed by constant spinning the roulette wheel on the leader.
The PCP in its infinite lack of wisdom choosing instead to give the membership a choice between a raging europhile and IDS, then resenting them for choosing IDS.
It was obvious he felt campaigning to the members was beneath him, and that sort of contempt came across very clearly.
On top of that, I think he was rather lazy.
I get its sportswashing, but not sure why this year was chosen to just go all in on buying big football stars. No softly softly approach here, just go all in.
Unpaywalled version:
https://archive.ph/g77U1
And that's necessary in the British system, where we set such great store by kicking the rascals out. Possibly too much store; maybe we'd be better finding a way of using downhill politicians more effectively.
And we should stop expecting our leaders to have charisma, AND be detail-oriented workhorses who pore over briefing documents till 3 in the morning and get up at 6. Thatcher has really poisoned the well for future leaders in that regard. It's about assembling the right team around you. We know that Penny is a good commons performer, interviews well, and does 'human' - that's three things she can do that Sunak can't.
Evan Ferguson is the fourth player to have 10 EPL goals before his 19th birthday.
He is also the first not to have been a boyhood Everton fan.
Maybe the problem isn't the leader?
Maybe it's the Tory Party?
The acquiescence of almost the entire nation to enormous evil wasn't a matter of seduction.
'Only following orders' had a disturbing amount of truth behind it.
Anyone still using Opinium in your averages? We shouldn’t. We should forget it even exists.
It was a joke then, and would be beyond a farce now.
I wasn't alone in that.
@BillKristol
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7h
New WSJ poll: Biden 46%, Trump 46%.
I am alarmed.
Tocqueville: "Let us therefore have that salutary fear of the future that makes one watchful and combative, and not that sort of soft and idle terror that wears hearts down and enervates them."
Looking at the list Major really was quite the rapid riser for his time, and had Corbyn become PM it'd have been the longest period from MP to PM since Churchill.
Yeas as MP before becoming PM:
Starmer(?) - 8-9 years
Sunak - 7 years
Truss - 12 years
Johnson - 10 years (but with an 8 year gap)(others with gaps not shown)
May - 19 years
Cameron - 9 years
Brown - 24 years
Blair - 14 years
Major - 11 years
Thatcher - 20 years
Callaghan - 31 years
Heath - 20 years
Wilson - 19 years
Douglas-Home - 25 years (+12 as a Peer)
Macmillan - 31 years
Eden - 32 years
Attlee - 23 years
Churchill - 38 years
Chamberlain - 19 years
MacDonald - 14 years
Baldwin - 15 years
Bonar Law - 21 years
Lloyd George - 26 years
Asquith - 22 years
Campbell-Bannerman - 37 years
Balfour - 28 years
Gascoyne-Cecil - 15 years (+17 as a Peer)
MPs can't manage the long game anymore, but then if they are a high flyer they don't need to.
https://plus.thebulwark.com/p/to-beat-trump-democrats-need-whitmer-warnock
Be afraid. Be very afraid.
First, it rubs voters noses in the fact that General Election manifestoes aren't all that decisive. Once a party has a majority, it can mostly do whatever it damn well pleases. If I'd voted for Johnsonism, I suspect I'd be pretty narked about getting Trussism or Sunakism.
Second, and more importantly, it makes the governing party look clueless. If you can't choose a leader and stick to that, what does that say about the decisions you take running the country?
It's not a simple binary that N changes is OK, but N+1 isn't. But each midterm change has a cost for the party doing it, and those costs add up.
Once a parliament seems to be accepted (WIlson/Callaghan, Thatcher/Major, Blair/Brown, Cameron/May, May/Johnson). Two is pushing it (Johnson/Truss/Sunak). But I suspect that not even the British Electorate can swallow three Shredded Wheat unelected Prime Ministers.
If he is convicted the polling shows most Independents will dump Trump like a stone, if he is not convicted then most likely he will return to the White House again
It's still worrying that he is running neck and neck (which could be enough to win if it pans out) with all those issues, even if it becomes true that his support will drop if he is actually convicted.
People still think his pledge to halve inflation means prices will fall.
I'd suggest those escalating costs are not linear either. Not sure if they compound, follow the nth power or exponent, but something along those lines. (EDIT: or curves)
🤣..
Trump 2020 = 46.9%
Disruption caused by Stop ULEZ = good
Depose* the incumbent five minutes before the election and win big.**
*I think he stood down before he was deposed, but I have my doubts.
**She didn’t actually win, but was put into power by coalition with a UKIP style anti-immigration party.
https://twitter.com/SophiaSleigh/status/1698057255411704074
Cones hotline anyone?
The issue is he pretends he is a safe pair of hands, is focused on the things the electorate care about, and that everything’s on the right track.
In reality he is a do-nothing with a petulant streak, and his main contribution to politics is letting Lee Anderson, Suella Braverman and others fight culture wars.
This is a frighteningly trivial issue that “affects” an incredibly small number of people.
But that’s also what I want to believe.
Why he should be showing an appreciable rise in black support is absolutely beyond me.
That moustache. QED
“Disappointed by what he sees as Democrats' lurch to the left, free spending and empty promises…”
Which I just find a bizarre notion.
Biden has been a moderate President and the economy is relatively successful.
(I couldn't contribute earlier this evening, as I never met Hitler).
It does seem entirely likely even if he is convicted in any of them he will be out pending appeal by November, and if he wins that he will never serve a day in prison.
At the risk of sounding like a judge?
But farce isn't always funny. To your point.
Neil Henderson
@hendopolis
SUNDAY EXPRESS: I’ll halve inflation this year #TomorrowsPapersToday
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1698082945787965923