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Sunak’s constant boasting is not doing him any good – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,889
edited September 2023 in General
imageSunak’s constant boasting is not doing him any good – politicalbetting.com

You would have thought that someone who has risen to the top in politics would have a greater sense of self-awareness than that which we see from Sunak week after week after week.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • Options
    Does anyone else find it amusing, that Stanford Junior University and University of California at Berkeley, are now members for sporting purposes, of the Atlantic Coast Conference?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 94,341
    edited September 2023
    I'm not really convinced by this header. No, it isn't doing him any good, but what government doesn't say how great they are doing? Admitting there are challenges or not meeting targets is only done as a very last resort, and they have done the former already. There's also a bit of faking it to make it going on, as he presumably wants to instill confidence in supporters and potential supporters.

    No, it isn't working, but it's just spin, not especial lack of self awareness from Sunak. Others not popping up could easily be down to them not being trusted to do it, or being even less popular than he is.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,910
    He can hardly say "we're crap", though, can he?
    The Tories don't do humility or self-reflection very well.
  • Options
    Perhaps Rishi Sunak and others, believe that if the likes of Boris Johnson and Donald Trump can get away (mostly) with spouting crap about themselves constantly, so can they/

    However, turns out even semi-successful crap-spouting is an art NOT a science.

    In other words, for most politicos, do NOT try this at home . . . even if "home" is No. 10 Downing St.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 94,341
    Leon said:

    There are some quite prominent rumours on Twitter that Tucker Carlson is going to interview Putin

    THAT would be a pretty profound moment in media. If he got 125m “views” on Twitter for Orban, what would he get for Putin?

    Depends if it is cover for this kind of situation.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Interview
  • Options
    in case you missed it

    World record attendance for women's sports event set in Lincoln, Nebraska
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dILae6YuP50

    92,002 according to the cheerleaders.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 94,341

    in case you missed it

    World record attendance for women's sports event set in Lincoln, Nebraska
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dILae6YuP50

    92,002 according to the cheerleaders.

    For volleyball of all things.

    There must be dozens of super large stadiums in the USA.
  • Options
    God I hate boastful people.

    Be modest and self effacing.

    Rishi, if you're reading this, I am happy to given you lessons on this.
  • Options
    So when do the Saudis behead sack Eddie Howe?
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    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,196

    in case you missed it

    World record attendance for women's sports event set in Lincoln, Nebraska
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dILae6YuP50

    92,002 according to the cheerleaders.

    Cheerleaders can count?
  • Options
    While an election is expected next autumn — and could be as late as January 2025 — Starmer and his chief strategist Morgan McSweeney have told their troops that they think Sunak might go as early as May.

    If the public begins to acknowledge that the economy is improving, that would clear the way for the Tories to campaign on a message of “we are turning the corner, don’t let Labour ruin it”. Going in May could prevent local election results damaging the Tories further, and would avoid another summer of small boat arrivals.

    A senior Labour source said: “They seem to be keeping the option of May open and making it viable in a way they weren’t before. They’ve speeded-up candidate selection. They’re doing a lot more direct mail.”


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/summers-over-for-rishi-sunak-and-keir-starmer-but-theyre-still-all-at-sea-8gkqf50cc
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    Shapps is regarded as one of the government’s best media performers, but some colleagues questioned the wisdom of appointing someone with no military or departmental experience to the role. Senior officers in the Ministry of Defence seem less than delighted.

    One last week compared the minister, who once sold get-rich-quick schemes under the pseudonym Michael Green, to Lawrence of Arabia, who entered the air force using a false name, TE Shaw. “He’s the new Lawrence,” the commander said. “We are wondering which name to do the vetting checks on: Grant Shapps or Michael Green.”
  • Options

    Does anyone else find it amusing, that Stanford Junior University and University of California at Berkeley, are now members for sporting purposes, of the Atlantic Coast Conference?

    No. But seems strange. Is there a betting angle on this?
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 16,397
    edited September 2023
    kle4 said:

    in case you missed it

    World record attendance for women's sports event set in Lincoln, Nebraska
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dILae6YuP50

    92,002 according to the cheerleaders.

    For volleyball of all things.

    There must be dozens of super large stadiums in the USA.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._stadiums_by_capacity

    Note that Memorial Stadium in Lincoln, NB, ranked 15th in capacity, is rated at just 85,458; however, that is when it's configured for U of Neb football games, it's designed function; you can see from the YouTube clip that seating was added on the field itself for the volleyball match.
  • Options
    BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,441
    edited September 2023
    Just finished another eleven hour shift, so up to sixty hours hours since the Bank Holiday. I think I’ll get to seventy-five for the week after working tomorrow and Monday

    I popped into Waitrose on the way home and got cheap dinner (a minted pea and bacon quiche for £1.39!). On my way in, I saw Peter Mandelson at the checkout (buying sushi and what looked like stir fry ingredients). I’ve known for years that he lives nearby, but it’s the first time I’ve seen him
  • Options
    Leon said:

    If Tucker Carlson does land a Putin interview (and it’s the obvious next move) that would be mega cat::pigeons

    It would give Putin a chance to explain himself and his actions to the entire world, with a not-entirely hostile interviewer with an enormous platform - most of the political world, 400m Twitter users worldwide

    Before PB has a breakdown I’m not saying this is necessarily a good thing, just that I can see it making absolute sense for Carlson and Musk

    Not quite convinced it would be work for Putin however. He doesn’t speak good English. He’s very stiff. He might come across as the deranged Russian Hitler, after all

    I can imagine Putin doing it but not speaking English. When he did an interview with Oliver Stone he spoke in Russian and it was translated.
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    boulayboulay Posts: 5,001

    So when do the Saudis behead sack Eddie Howe?

    I believe he’s being whispered about as “Beheady Howe” in Riyadh.
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    MattWMattW Posts: 20,154
    edited September 2023

    Just finished another eleven hour shift, so up to sixty hours hours since the Bank Holiday. I think I’ll get to seventy-five for the week after working tomorrow and Monday

    I popped into Waitrose on the way home and got cheap dinner (a minted pea and bacon quiche for £1.39!). On my way in, I saw Peter Mandelson at the checkout (buying sushi and what looked like stir fry ingredients). I’ve known for years that he lives nearby, but it’s the first time I’ve seen him

    You should have stolen his place in the queue, after asking him if he knew who you are?

    :wink:
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 20,117

    Does anyone else find it amusing, that Stanford Junior University and University of California at Berkeley, are now members for sporting purposes, of the Atlantic Coast Conference?

    Yes.

    Although I did have to look up where Stanford was. After making my brain interpret "Stanford" as "University near San Francisco" and not "character in SATC". And work out what the "Atlantic Coast Conference" was. But I got there in the end.

    :):):)
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    LeonLeon Posts: 50,693
    Fpt for @TimS

    Yes I know that hotel and region well. The golden villages of the beaujolais


    I did a whole piece about it over a week. I found the food a bit hit and miss and I got bored of gamay wine but those villages are charming and that particular hotel is fabulous. Enjoy!

    They also gave me a red 2CV to pootle around in. I have never felt so French


  • Options

    Just finished another eleven hour shift, so up to sixty hours hours since the Bank Holiday. I think I’ll get to seventy-five for the week after working tomorrow and Monday

    I popped into Waitrose on the way home and got cheap dinner (a minted pea and bacon quiche for £1.39!). On my way in, I saw Peter Mandelson at the checkout (buying sushi and what looked like stir fry ingredients). I’ve known for years that he lives nearby, but it’s the first time I’ve seen him

    Everything about that story is so Peter Mandelson.
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    FPT

    Shapps is actually a stupid appointment by Rishi.

    Shapps is actually a pretty good communicator, and should be Minister for the Today Programme or some such.

    I suspect Coutinho, looking at her CV, is also a shit appointment for “Energy Security”, but let’s see.
  • Options

    Just finished another eleven hour shift, so up to sixty hours hours since the Bank Holiday. I think I’ll get to seventy-five for the week after working tomorrow and Monday

    I popped into Waitrose on the way home and got cheap dinner (a minted pea and bacon quiche for £1.39!). On my way in, I saw Peter Mandelson at the checkout (buying sushi and what looked like stir fry ingredients). I’ve known for years that he lives nearby, but it’s the first time I’ve seen him

    Everything about that story is so Peter Mandelson.
    What, he goes to Waitrose like the original poster?

    My issue with Mandelson in this story is that it’s not really possible to get edible sushi from a supermarket in Britain.
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    MattWMattW Posts: 20,154

    Shapps is regarded as one of the government’s best media performers, but some colleagues questioned the wisdom of appointing someone with no military or departmental experience to the role. Senior officers in the Ministry of Defence seem less than delighted.

    One last week compared the minister, who once sold get-rich-quick schemes under the pseudonym Michael Green, to Lawrence of Arabia, who entered the air force using a false name, TE Shaw. “He’s the new Lawrence,” the commander said. “We are wondering which name to do the vetting checks on: Grant Shapps or Michael Green.”

    That's a rather kind assessment.

    I've kept stumm to avoid Mike potentially being approached by M'learned Friends.

    Uk Defence Journal has a relevant thread:
    https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/grant-shapps-appointed-as-new-defence-secretary/
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    What a turning point this was in Newcastle's season



    https://twitter.com/paddypower/status/1698034617305968654
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    boulayboulay Posts: 5,001

    FPT

    Shapps is actually a stupid appointment by Rishi.

    Shapps is actually a pretty good communicator, and should be Minister for the Today Programme or some such.

    I suspect Coutinho, looking at her CV, is also a shit appointment for “Energy Security”, but let’s see.

    Coutinho moving has been welcomed in Liverpool as it will inevitably lead to an upturn in their fortune.
  • Options

    Does anyone else find it amusing, that Stanford Junior University and University of California at Berkeley, are now members for sporting purposes, of the Atlantic Coast Conference?

    No. But seems strange. Is there a betting angle on this?
    No, except that you can bet your bottom dollar (or lowest pound) that the idiot who has been "running" the collapsing Pac 12 conference - now down to the Pac 2, Oregon State and Washington State - is about less popular than dog shit on a shoe up and down the West Coast.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pac-12_Conference
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    boulayboulay Posts: 5,001

    What a turning point this was in Newcastle's season



    https://twitter.com/paddypower/status/1698034617305968654

    That picture is now used as the definition online when you google “hubris/nemesis”.
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    boulay said:

    FPT

    Shapps is actually a stupid appointment by Rishi.

    Shapps is actually a pretty good communicator, and should be Minister for the Today Programme or some such.

    I suspect Coutinho, looking at her CV, is also a shit appointment for “Energy Security”, but let’s see.

    Coutinho moving has been welcomed in Liverpool as it will inevitably lead to an upturn in their fortune.
    I don’t do football jokes.
    I know literally zero about football.

    I “support” Tranmere Rovers because my father does, and Tottenham on geographic grounds.
  • Options
    boulayboulay Posts: 5,001

    boulay said:

    FPT

    Shapps is actually a stupid appointment by Rishi.

    Shapps is actually a pretty good communicator, and should be Minister for the Today Programme or some such.

    I suspect Coutinho, looking at her CV, is also a shit appointment for “Energy Security”, but let’s see.

    Coutinho moving has been welcomed in Liverpool as it will inevitably lead to an upturn in their fortune.
    I don’t do football jokes.
    I know literally zero about football.

    I “support” Tranmere Rovers because my father does, and Tottenham on geographic grounds.
    Liverpool sold Philip Coutinho to Barcelona for a ridiculous amount of money and from that money they bought Virgil Van Dyke and Alisson which led to them winning the Champions league and Premier League. Coutinho thought he had moved to greener pastures but his career went down the pan completely.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,910

    FPT

    Shapps is actually a stupid appointment by Rishi.

    Shapps is actually a pretty good communicator, and should be Minister for the Today Programme or some such.

    I suspect Coutinho, looking at her CV, is also a shit appointment for “Energy Security”, but let’s see.

    How so?
    AFAICS it is Oxford, City of London, right wing think-tank, Tory MP.
    Just like all the others.
  • Options

    Just finished another eleven hour shift, so up to sixty hours hours since the Bank Holiday. I think I’ll get to seventy-five for the week after working tomorrow and Monday

    I popped into Waitrose on the way home and got cheap dinner (a minted pea and bacon quiche for £1.39!). On my way in, I saw Peter Mandelson at the checkout (buying sushi and what looked like stir fry ingredients). I’ve known for years that he lives nearby, but it’s the first time I’ve seen him

    Everything about that story is so Peter Mandelson.
    Would you feel differently, if Mandy was buying a pint of mushy peas plus a couple Eccles cakes?
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 11,325
    Leon said:

    Fpt for @TimS

    Yes I know that hotel and region well. The golden villages of the beaujolais


    I did a whole piece about it over a week. I found the food a bit hit and miss and I got bored of gamay wine but those villages are charming and that particular hotel is fabulous. Enjoy!

    They also gave me a red 2CV to pootle around in. I have never felt so French


    It’s a lovely region. A bit Italian in architecture and scenery. It’s just over an hour south of our house near Cluny and we usually come for the day and eat somewhere like Oingt (pronounced like a rude word) but as there’s an occasion to celebrate and we’re without children this weekend we’re staying overnight.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,910
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt for @TimS

    Yes I know that hotel and region well. The golden villages of the beaujolais


    I did a whole piece about it over a week. I found the food a bit hit and miss and I got bored of gamay wine but those villages are charming and that particular hotel is fabulous. Enjoy!

    They also gave me a red 2CV to pootle around in. I have never felt so French


    It’s a lovely region. A bit Italian in architecture and scenery. It’s just over an hour south of our house near Cluny and we usually come for the day and eat somewhere like Oingt (pronounced like a rude word) but as there’s an occasion to celebrate and we’re without children this weekend we’re staying overnight.
    Which rude word can you pronounce "Oingt" as?
  • Options
    FishingFishing Posts: 4,608
    edited September 2023
    On topic, Rishi didn't so much rise to the top of politics as fluke up - he got there because Sajid clased with Cummings and Johnson needed another non-white, and then because Truss self-destructed. I can't recall a rise in politics that was less on his own merits, and so far before his time.

    OTOH, -15% is actually quite a good approval rating for a British PM. The average of the IPSOS-MORI data (comparing between pollsters, I know) since they've been asking the question is -30% or so.

    Either we're terrible at choosing PMs or we're an extremely grumpy and ungrateful nation. Or both.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 11,325
    dixiedean said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt for @TimS

    Yes I know that hotel and region well. The golden villages of the beaujolais


    I did a whole piece about it over a week. I found the food a bit hit and miss and I got bored of gamay wine but those villages are charming and that particular hotel is fabulous. Enjoy!

    They also gave me a red 2CV to pootle around in. I have never felt so French


    It’s a lovely region. A bit Italian in architecture and scenery. It’s just over an hour south of our house near Cluny and we usually come for the day and eat somewhere like Oingt (pronounced like a rude word) but as there’s an occasion to celebrate and we’re without children this weekend we’re staying overnight.
    Which rude word can you pronounce "Oingt" as?
    Begins with w. Sometimes followed by “off”.
  • Options
    dixiedean said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt for @TimS

    Yes I know that hotel and region well. The golden villages of the beaujolais


    I did a whole piece about it over a week. I found the food a bit hit and miss and I got bored of gamay wine but those villages are charming and that particular hotel is fabulous. Enjoy!

    They also gave me a red 2CV to pootle around in. I have never felt so French


    It’s a lovely region. A bit Italian in architecture and scenery. It’s just over an hour south of our house near Cluny and we usually come for the day and eat somewhere like Oingt (pronounced like a rude word) but as there’s an occasion to celebrate and we’re without children this weekend we’re staying overnight.
    Which rude word can you pronounce "Oingt" as?
    Wanked.
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,196
    Fishing said:

    On topic, Rishi didn't so much rise to the top of politics as fluke up - he got there because Sajid clased with Cummings and Johnson needed another non-white, and then because Truss self-destructed. I can't recall a rise in politics that was less on his own merits, and so far before his time.

    OTOH, -15% is actually quite a good approval rating for a British PM. The average of the IPSOS-MORI data (comparing between pollsters, I know) since they've been asking the question is -30% or so.

    Either we're terrible at choosing PMs or we're an extremely grumpy and ungrateful nation. Or both.

    On a good not to cheer things up I no longer have to follow the law only my own moral code, if I dont misgender someone on twitter then the police wont bother with me so thats a plus as I dont even have a twitter account.
  • Options
    dixiedean said:

    FPT

    Shapps is actually a stupid appointment by Rishi.

    Shapps is actually a pretty good communicator, and should be Minister for the Today Programme or some such.

    I suspect Coutinho, looking at her CV, is also a shit appointment for “Energy Security”, but let’s see.

    How so?
    AFAICS it is Oxford, City of London, right wing think-tank, Tory MP.
    Just like all the others.
    My point, I guess.

    Although she has rather less actual work experience and rather more bouncing-around-think-tanks-talking-shite than many.
  • Options
    Come Monday - Jimmy Buffett (1944 - 2023)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKGw_hrlaOY
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 50,693
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt for @TimS

    Yes I know that hotel and region well. The golden villages of the beaujolais


    I did a whole piece about it over a week. I found the food a bit hit and miss and I got bored of gamay wine but those villages are charming and that particular hotel is fabulous. Enjoy!

    They also gave me a red 2CV to pootle around in. I have never felt so French


    It’s a lovely region. A bit Italian in architecture and scenery. It’s just over an hour south of our house near Cluny and we usually come for the day and eat somewhere like Oingt (pronounced like a rude word) but as there’s an occasion to celebrate and we’re without children this weekend we’re staying overnight.
    They put me in one of the rooms made out of enormous wine vats. Barriiques? Which was interesting

    Good food in the hotel itself. The beautiful courtyard under glass! I found some of the local restaurants a tad too ambitious for their skill-levels
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 11,325

    dixiedean said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt for @TimS

    Yes I know that hotel and region well. The golden villages of the beaujolais


    I did a whole piece about it over a week. I found the food a bit hit and miss and I got bored of gamay wine but those villages are charming and that particular hotel is fabulous. Enjoy!

    They also gave me a red 2CV to pootle around in. I have never felt so French


    It’s a lovely region. A bit Italian in architecture and scenery. It’s just over an hour south of our house near Cluny and we usually come for the day and eat somewhere like Oingt (pronounced like a rude word) but as there’s an occasion to celebrate and we’re without children this weekend we’re staying overnight.
    Which rude word can you pronounce "Oingt" as?
    Wanked.
    And there was me trying to avoid vulgarity.
  • Options
    MattW said:

    Just finished another eleven hour shift, so up to sixty hours hours since the Bank Holiday. I think I’ll get to seventy-five for the week after working tomorrow and Monday

    I popped into Waitrose on the way home and got cheap dinner (a minted pea and bacon quiche for £1.39!). On my way in, I saw Peter Mandelson at the checkout (buying sushi and what looked like stir fry ingredients). I’ve known for years that he lives nearby, but it’s the first time I’ve seen him

    You should have stolen his place in the queue, after asking him if he knew who you are?

    :wink:
    That would have been quite some manoeuvre given I didn't yet have shopping and there was an empty self checkout next to the one he was using!

    I know quite a few people that have met him socially, or served him in shops, or worked at his place, and they've all liked him. Even though most of them haven't liked his politics
  • Options
    Fishing said:

    On topic, Rishi didn't so much rise to the top of politics as fluke up - he got there because Sajid clased with Cummings and Johnson needed another non-white, and then because Truss self-destructed. I can't recall a rise in politics that was less on his own merits, and so far before his time.

    OTOH, -15% is actually quite a good approval rating for a British PM. The average of the IPSOS-MORI data (comparing between pollsters, I know) since they've been asking the question is -30% or so.

    Either we're terrible at choosing PMs or we're an extremely grumpy and ungrateful nation. Or both.

    In some ways, a bit like May (whose exploding clown car didn't detonate in 2016 when everyone else's did). But she had a body of work behind her, in away that Sunak didn't and doesn't.

    And whilst -15 percent approval isn't that bad, the trajectory is, even if it's the same path as every other PM.
  • Options

    Come Monday - Jimmy Buffett (1944 - 2023)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKGw_hrlaOY

    Preceded (for me anyway) by this award-winning Twix advert.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gNT0SWf3Ls
  • Options
    TimS said:

    dixiedean said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt for @TimS

    Yes I know that hotel and region well. The golden villages of the beaujolais


    I did a whole piece about it over a week. I found the food a bit hit and miss and I got bored of gamay wine but those villages are charming and that particular hotel is fabulous. Enjoy!

    They also gave me a red 2CV to pootle around in. I have never felt so French


    It’s a lovely region. A bit Italian in architecture and scenery. It’s just over an hour south of our house near Cluny and we usually come for the day and eat somewhere like Oingt (pronounced like a rude word) but as there’s an occasion to celebrate and we’re without children this weekend we’re staying overnight.
    Which rude word can you pronounce "Oingt" as?
    Wanked.
    And there was me trying to avoid vulgarity.
    Speaking of vulgarity, when I was in France (Normandy) recently I noted that body odour was still very popular in the campagne.
  • Options
    boulayboulay Posts: 5,001

    TimS said:

    dixiedean said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt for @TimS

    Yes I know that hotel and region well. The golden villages of the beaujolais


    I did a whole piece about it over a week. I found the food a bit hit and miss and I got bored of gamay wine but those villages are charming and that particular hotel is fabulous. Enjoy!

    They also gave me a red 2CV to pootle around in. I have never felt so French


    It’s a lovely region. A bit Italian in architecture and scenery. It’s just over an hour south of our house near Cluny and we usually come for the day and eat somewhere like Oingt (pronounced like a rude word) but as there’s an occasion to celebrate and we’re without children this weekend we’re staying overnight.
    Which rude word can you pronounce "Oingt" as?
    Wanked.
    And there was me trying to avoid vulgarity.
    Speaking of vulgarity, when I was in France (Normandy) recently I noted that body odour was still very popular in the campagne.
    Unfortunately for the French, and thus visitors, there was a massive misunderstanding when they heard that you could use gases from aerosols as deodorant.
  • Options

    MattW said:

    Just finished another eleven hour shift, so up to sixty hours hours since the Bank Holiday. I think I’ll get to seventy-five for the week after working tomorrow and Monday

    I popped into Waitrose on the way home and got cheap dinner (a minted pea and bacon quiche for £1.39!). On my way in, I saw Peter Mandelson at the checkout (buying sushi and what looked like stir fry ingredients). I’ve known for years that he lives nearby, but it’s the first time I’ve seen him

    You should have stolen his place in the queue, after asking him if he knew who you are?

    :wink:
    That would have been quite some manoeuvre given I didn't yet have shopping and there was an empty self checkout next to the one he was using!

    I know quite a few people that have met him socially, or served him in shops, or worked at his place, and they've all liked him. Even though most of them haven't liked his politics
    Barry Manilow was a BIG fan of Mandy.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FOAd1mbtiM
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,638
    FPT, @Mexicanpete Cameron could have changed the system, in order to assist the Labour Party, but oddly, he chose not to.
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 26,658

    While an election is expected next autumn — and could be as late as January 2025 — Starmer and his chief strategist Morgan McSweeney have told their troops that they think Sunak might go as early as May.

    If the public begins to acknowledge that the economy is improving, that would clear the way for the Tories to campaign on a message of “we are turning the corner, don’t let Labour ruin it”. Going in May could prevent local election results damaging the Tories further, and would avoid another summer of small boat arrivals.

    A senior Labour source said: “They seem to be keeping the option of May open and making it viable in a way they weren’t before. They’ve speeded-up candidate selection. They’re doing a lot more direct mail.”


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/summers-over-for-rishi-sunak-and-keir-starmer-but-theyre-still-all-at-sea-8gkqf50cc

    We are a pretty fickle bunch if we buy an economic recovery after a couple of months of 4% inflation figures. Does Rishi understand inflation is cumulative? I suppose he could always reheat "eat out to help out" or whatever it was called.
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 26,658
    Sean_F said:

    FPT, @Mexicanpete Cameron could have changed the system, in order to assist the Labour Party, but oddly, he chose not to.

    I am not suggesting he should do that at all. What I am categorically stating is he gamed the system for perceived by Kellner,) unfair benefit, on the back of moaning about how unfair to the Conservatives election 2005 was, and it was! The Party are continuing to game the system. If winning at all costs is the priority, fair enough. If ensuring a fair and free election is the priority the Conservatives are failing
  • Options
    The Guardian

    The latest Opinium survey for the Observer shows the Conservative have failed to shift the dial in Sunak’s favour, with the prime minister dropping two points in the past two weeks to a net score of -25% (24% approve, 49% disapprove).

    Overall, Labour holds a healthy 14-point lead, with 42% of the vote share (+1 compared with a fortnight ago) against 28% for the Conservatives (+2). The Liberal Democrats are on 9% (-2), Reform UK is on 8% (-1) as is the Green party (+1).

    Keir Starmer’s approval rating, while also negative, is far better than Sunak’s, with the Labour leader standing on -7% (28% approve, 35% disapprove).

    Similarly, views about who would make the best prime minister have also remained stable – Starmer now leads with 27% choosing the Labour leader, versus 23% who prefer Sunak.

    While this support could be stronger for Starmer, there is no evidence that voters are moving to Sunak as Tory strategists had hoped.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 33,713
    edited September 2023
    MattW said:

    Just finished another eleven hour shift, so up to sixty hours hours since the Bank Holiday. I think I’ll get to seventy-five for the week after working tomorrow and Monday

    I popped into Waitrose on the way home and got cheap dinner (a minted pea and bacon quiche for £1.39!). On my way in, I saw Peter Mandelson at the checkout (buying sushi and what looked like stir fry ingredients). I’ve known for years that he lives nearby, but it’s the first time I’ve seen him

    You should have stolen his place in the queue, after asking him if he knew who you are?

    :wink:
    Reminds me of the (probably apocryphal) story of the man who marches to the front of the Air New Zealand check-in queue and demands to be checked-in immediately.

    The agent says "I'm sorry sir, these people were here first, please join the back of the queue".

    The irate man shouts "Don't you know who I am?", at which the agent picks up the tannoy mic and broadcasts: "There's a man at check-in who doesn't know who he is, if anyone can help identify him please make yourself known to security."
  • Options
    carnforthcarnforth Posts: 3,730
    edited September 2023

    While an election is expected next autumn — and could be as late as January 2025 — Starmer and his chief strategist Morgan McSweeney have told their troops that they think Sunak might go as early as May.

    If the public begins to acknowledge that the economy is improving, that would clear the way for the Tories to campaign on a message of “we are turning the corner, don’t let Labour ruin it”. Going in May could prevent local election results damaging the Tories further, and would avoid another summer of small boat arrivals.

    A senior Labour source said: “They seem to be keeping the option of May open and making it viable in a way they weren’t before. They’ve speeded-up candidate selection. They’re doing a lot more direct mail.”


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/summers-over-for-rishi-sunak-and-keir-starmer-but-theyre-still-all-at-sea-8gkqf50cc

    We are a pretty fickle bunch if we buy an economic recovery after a couple of months of 4% inflation figures. Does Rishi understand inflation is cumulative? I suppose he could always reheat "eat out to help out" or whatever it was called.
    Prices may still be rising overall, but some touchstone items are falling. Four pints of milk at Tesco is £1.45 down from £1.65 a few months ago, for example. It also moves the media narrative on. At some point, the phrase on everybody's lips will be something other than "cost of living crisis". Rishi will hope it's before the election, and that the new phrase is not worse.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 50,693

    MattW said:

    Just finished another eleven hour shift, so up to sixty hours hours since the Bank Holiday. I think I’ll get to seventy-five for the week after working tomorrow and Monday

    I popped into Waitrose on the way home and got cheap dinner (a minted pea and bacon quiche for £1.39!). On my way in, I saw Peter Mandelson at the checkout (buying sushi and what looked like stir fry ingredients). I’ve known for years that he lives nearby, but it’s the first time I’ve seen him

    You should have stolen his place in the queue, after asking him if he knew who you are?

    :wink:
    That would have been quite some manoeuvre given I didn't yet have shopping and there was an empty self checkout next to the one he was using!

    I know quite a few people that have met him socially, or served him in shops, or worked at his place, and they've all liked him. Even though most of them haven't liked his politics
    I’ve met him and he seemed perfectly charming. I never did understand the loathing he induced
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,202
    edited September 2023

    So when do the Saudis behead sack Eddie Howe?

    Shush. 😠


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    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,196
    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Just finished another eleven hour shift, so up to sixty hours hours since the Bank Holiday. I think I’ll get to seventy-five for the week after working tomorrow and Monday

    I popped into Waitrose on the way home and got cheap dinner (a minted pea and bacon quiche for £1.39!). On my way in, I saw Peter Mandelson at the checkout (buying sushi and what looked like stir fry ingredients). I’ve known for years that he lives nearby, but it’s the first time I’ve seen him

    You should have stolen his place in the queue, after asking him if he knew who you are?

    :wink:
    That would have been quite some manoeuvre given I didn't yet have shopping and there was an empty self checkout next to the one he was using!

    I know quite a few people that have met him socially, or served him in shops, or worked at his place, and they've all liked him. Even though most of them haven't liked his politics
    I’ve met him and he seemed perfectly charming. I never did understand the loathing he induced
    Many who met hitler socially thought he was charming
  • Options
    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Just finished another eleven hour shift, so up to sixty hours hours since the Bank Holiday. I think I’ll get to seventy-five for the week after working tomorrow and Monday

    I popped into Waitrose on the way home and got cheap dinner (a minted pea and bacon quiche for £1.39!). On my way in, I saw Peter Mandelson at the checkout (buying sushi and what looked like stir fry ingredients). I’ve known for years that he lives nearby, but it’s the first time I’ve seen him

    You should have stolen his place in the queue, after asking him if he knew who you are?

    :wink:
    That would have been quite some manoeuvre given I didn't yet have shopping and there was an empty self checkout next to the one he was using!

    I know quite a few people that have met him socially, or served him in shops, or worked at his place, and they've all liked him. Even though most of them haven't liked his politics
    I’ve met him and he seemed perfectly charming. I never did understand the loathing he induced
    The right hated him because he made the left electable, which was somehow seen as cheating and deviant.

    The left hated him for pretty much the same reason.
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    Sean_F said:

    FPT, @Mexicanpete Cameron could have changed the system, in order to assist the Labour Party, but oddly, he chose not to.

    I am not suggesting he should do that at all. What I am categorically stating is he gamed the system for perceived by Kellner,) unfair benefit, on the back of moaning about how unfair to the Conservatives election 2005 was, and it was! The Party are continuing to game the system. If winning at all costs is the priority, fair enough. If ensuring a fair and free election is the priority the Conservatives are failing
    I think the problem was Cameron/Osborne/CCHQ really did believe the electoral system was unfairly tilted towards Labour, mainly due to their not understanding differential turnout (OGH ran several headers on the point, iirc). That being the case, a blue thumb on the scale was only fair.
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    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,070
    Agree with Mike.

    I don't think Sunak is anything like such a flawed character as Boris Johnson but in terms of political electability he is far worse. He is not (yet) the liability that Liz Truss was but he is extraordinarily tone deaf to where people are at. And he becomes petulant when questioned: how dare any minion be so rude as to doubt his truth?

    I have Conservative friends who really dislike him and that's not a good sign.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 119,077
    Given inflation has almost halved since he took over from Truss as PM I think Sunak has some room to claim credit for that. Plus if he doesn't boast about his government's achievements, who else will?
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    TimSTimS Posts: 11,325

    The Guardian

    The latest Opinium survey for the Observer shows the Conservative have failed to shift the dial in Sunak’s favour, with the prime minister dropping two points in the past two weeks to a net score of -25% (24% approve, 49% disapprove).

    Overall, Labour holds a healthy 14-point lead, with 42% of the vote share (+1 compared with a fortnight ago) against 28% for the Conservatives (+2). The Liberal Democrats are on 9% (-2), Reform UK is on 8% (-1) as is the Green party (+1).

    Keir Starmer’s approval rating, while also negative, is far better than Sunak’s, with the Labour leader standing on -7% (28% approve, 35% disapprove).

    Similarly, views about who would make the best prime minister have also remained stable – Starmer now leads with 27% choosing the Labour leader, versus 23% who prefer Sunak.

    While this support could be stronger for Starmer, there is no evidence that voters are moving to Sunak as Tory strategists had hoped.

    Clearly this pollster is over-sampling politically engaged nutters and under sampling nice wishywashy floating voter types. There’s no way Reform is on 8%, and certainly not the Greens. Greens only 1% behind Lib Dems? I don’t think so.

  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 119,077

    The Guardian

    The latest Opinium survey for the Observer shows the Conservative have failed to shift the dial in Sunak’s favour, with the prime minister dropping two points in the past two weeks to a net score of -25% (24% approve, 49% disapprove).

    Overall, Labour holds a healthy 14-point lead, with 42% of the vote share (+1 compared with a fortnight ago) against 28% for the Conservatives (+2). The Liberal Democrats are on 9% (-2), Reform UK is on 8% (-1) as is the Green party (+1).

    Keir Starmer’s approval rating, while also negative, is far better than Sunak’s, with the Labour leader standing on -7% (28% approve, 35% disapprove).

    Similarly, views about who would make the best prime minister have also remained stable – Starmer now leads with 27% choosing the Labour leader, versus 23% who prefer Sunak.

    While this support could be stronger for Starmer, there is no evidence that voters are moving to Sunak as Tory strategists had hoped.

    Just a 4% lead as preferred PM for Starmer hardly vast however. And 8% RefUK for the Tories to squeeze too
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 40,141
    TimS said:

    dixiedean said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt for @TimS

    Yes I know that hotel and region well. The golden villages of the beaujolais


    I did a whole piece about it over a week. I found the food a bit hit and miss and I got bored of gamay wine but those villages are charming and that particular hotel is fabulous. Enjoy!

    They also gave me a red 2CV to pootle around in. I have never felt so French


    It’s a lovely region. A bit Italian in architecture and scenery. It’s just over an hour south of our house near Cluny and we usually come for the day and eat somewhere like Oingt (pronounced like a rude word) but as there’s an occasion to celebrate and we’re without children this weekend we’re staying overnight.
    Which rude word can you pronounce "Oingt" as?
    Wanked.
    And there was me trying to avoid vulgarity.
    Yes that was quite an amusing sequence.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 40,141
    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Just finished another eleven hour shift, so up to sixty hours hours since the Bank Holiday. I think I’ll get to seventy-five for the week after working tomorrow and Monday

    I popped into Waitrose on the way home and got cheap dinner (a minted pea and bacon quiche for £1.39!). On my way in, I saw Peter Mandelson at the checkout (buying sushi and what looked like stir fry ingredients). I’ve known for years that he lives nearby, but it’s the first time I’ve seen him

    You should have stolen his place in the queue, after asking him if he knew who you are?

    :wink:
    That would have been quite some manoeuvre given I didn't yet have shopping and there was an empty self checkout next to the one he was using!

    I know quite a few people that have met him socially, or served him in shops, or worked at his place, and they've all liked him. Even though most of them haven't liked his politics
    I’ve met him and he seemed perfectly charming. I never did understand the loathing he induced
    Homophobia in the mix, I suppose.
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    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,070
    edited September 2023
    I've met and chatted with Peter Mandelson. Actually rather liked him. Which, as you may know, is not a sentiment I have for Tony Blair.

    It was back at the time of the Remainer Parliament and Mandy impressed me by saying to me that we had to enact the will of the people who had voted in a democratic election.

    Kudos.
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    TimS said:

    The Guardian

    The latest Opinium survey for the Observer shows the Conservative have failed to shift the dial in Sunak’s favour, with the prime minister dropping two points in the past two weeks to a net score of -25% (24% approve, 49% disapprove).

    Overall, Labour holds a healthy 14-point lead, with 42% of the vote share (+1 compared with a fortnight ago) against 28% for the Conservatives (+2). The Liberal Democrats are on 9% (-2), Reform UK is on 8% (-1) as is the Green party (+1).

    Keir Starmer’s approval rating, while also negative, is far better than Sunak’s, with the Labour leader standing on -7% (28% approve, 35% disapprove).

    Similarly, views about who would make the best prime minister have also remained stable – Starmer now leads with 27% choosing the Labour leader, versus 23% who prefer Sunak.

    While this support could be stronger for Starmer, there is no evidence that voters are moving to Sunak as Tory strategists had hoped.

    Clearly this pollster is over-sampling politically engaged nutters and under sampling nice wishywashy floating voter types. There’s no way Reform is on 8%, and certainly not the Greens. Greens only 1% behind Lib Dems? I don’t think so.

    Could be an artefact of their Shy Tory Squeeze factor, but I'm not sure how. But the important thing is this. If we are looking at an October 2024 election, there are 26/27 more fortnights until the campaign starts.
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    Heathener said:

    Agree with Mike.

    I don't think Sunak is anything like such a flawed character as Boris Johnson but in terms of political electability he is far worse. He is not (yet) the liability that Liz Truss was but he is extraordinarily tone deaf to where people are at. And he becomes petulant when questioned: how dare any minion be so rude as to doubt his truth?

    I have Conservative friends who really dislike him and that's not a good sign.

    Good evening

    Sunak is the best the conservatives have got, despite his flaws, and the mountain that the toxic legacy of Johnson and the diabolical Truss left him is a very tall order to overcome

    If tonight's poll by Opinium in the Guardian is anything to go by neither Sunak or Starmer are setting the narrative alight with only 27% and 23% respectively seeing Starmer better than Sunak as PM

    I expect the conservatives to pay a price at the next GE, but even Starmer's most avid fans must accept he is hardly inspiring the nation
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 40,141
    Heathener said:

    I've met and chatted with Peter Mandelson. Actually rather liked him. Which, as you may know, is not a sentiment I have for Tony Blair.

    It was back at the time of the Remainer Parliament and Mandy impressed me by saying to me that we had to enact the will of the people who had voted in a democratic election.

    Kudos.

    Yet campaigned for a 2nd vote?
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 40,141
    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Just finished another eleven hour shift, so up to sixty hours hours since the Bank Holiday. I think I’ll get to seventy-five for the week after working tomorrow and Monday

    I popped into Waitrose on the way home and got cheap dinner (a minted pea and bacon quiche for £1.39!). On my way in, I saw Peter Mandelson at the checkout (buying sushi and what looked like stir fry ingredients). I’ve known for years that he lives nearby, but it’s the first time I’ve seen him

    You should have stolen his place in the queue, after asking him if he knew who you are?

    :wink:
    That would have been quite some manoeuvre given I didn't yet have shopping and there was an empty self checkout next to the one he was using!

    I know quite a few people that have met him socially, or served him in shops, or worked at his place, and they've all liked him. Even though most of them haven't liked his politics
    I’ve met him and he seemed perfectly charming. I never did understand the loathing he induced
    Many who met hitler socially thought he was charming
    I think not. Talked relentlessly. Never listened. Bad breath too.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 116,664
    edited September 2023
    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Just finished another eleven hour shift, so up to sixty hours hours since the Bank Holiday. I think I’ll get to seventy-five for the week after working tomorrow and Monday

    I popped into Waitrose on the way home and got cheap dinner (a minted pea and bacon quiche for £1.39!). On my way in, I saw Peter Mandelson at the checkout (buying sushi and what looked like stir fry ingredients). I’ve known for years that he lives nearby, but it’s the first time I’ve seen him

    You should have stolen his place in the queue, after asking him if he knew who you are?

    :wink:
    That would have been quite some manoeuvre given I didn't yet have shopping and there was an empty self checkout next to the one he was using!

    I know quite a few people that have met him socially, or served him in shops, or worked at his place, and they've all liked him. Even though most of them haven't liked his politics
    I’ve met him and he seemed perfectly charming. I never did understand the loathing he induced
    Many who met hitler socially thought he was charming
    I think not. Talked relentlessly. Never listened. Bad breath too.
    Hitler also had a micro penis and slept with his niece.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/adolf-hitler-micro-penis-slept-22397919
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    Scottish subsample klaxon.

    Lab 36%

    SNP 32%

    Via Opinium.
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    HYUFD said:

    The Guardian

    The latest Opinium survey for the Observer shows the Conservative have failed to shift the dial in Sunak’s favour, with the prime minister dropping two points in the past two weeks to a net score of -25% (24% approve, 49% disapprove).

    Overall, Labour holds a healthy 14-point lead, with 42% of the vote share (+1 compared with a fortnight ago) against 28% for the Conservatives (+2). The Liberal Democrats are on 9% (-2), Reform UK is on 8% (-1) as is the Green party (+1).

    Keir Starmer’s approval rating, while also negative, is far better than Sunak’s, with the Labour leader standing on -7% (28% approve, 35% disapprove).

    Similarly, views about who would make the best prime minister have also remained stable – Starmer now leads with 27% choosing the Labour leader, versus 23% who prefer Sunak.

    While this support could be stronger for Starmer, there is no evidence that voters are moving to Sunak as Tory strategists had hoped.

    Just a 4% lead as preferred PM for Starmer hardly vast however. And 8% RefUK for the Tories to squeeze too
    Yet you never mention the 8% Green vote for Labour to squeeze.
  • Options
    ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,183

    While an election is expected next autumn — and could be as late as January 2025 — Starmer and his chief strategist Morgan McSweeney have told their troops that they think Sunak might go as early as May.

    If the public begins to acknowledge that the economy is improving, that would clear the way for the Tories to campaign on a message of “we are turning the corner, don’t let Labour ruin it”. Going in May could prevent local election results damaging the Tories further, and would avoid another summer of small boat arrivals.

    A senior Labour source said: “They seem to be keeping the option of May open and making it viable in a way they weren’t before. They’ve speeded-up candidate selection. They’re doing a lot more direct mail.”


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/summers-over-for-rishi-sunak-and-keir-starmer-but-theyre-still-all-at-sea-8gkqf50cc

    We are a pretty fickle bunch if we buy an economic recovery after a couple of months of 4% inflation figures. Does Rishi understand inflation is cumulative? I suppose he could always reheat "eat out to help out" or whatever it was called.
    I think that he just has to believe that voters will think "A smaller number - phew!". It's not like the current media landscape is exactly encouraging understanding of what inflation is.

    That and a couple of tweaks to tax policy - who knows. Sad though it makes me - I can see them winning and chugging downwards for another few years yet.
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    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Just finished another eleven hour shift, so up to sixty hours hours since the Bank Holiday. I think I’ll get to seventy-five for the week after working tomorrow and Monday

    I popped into Waitrose on the way home and got cheap dinner (a minted pea and bacon quiche for £1.39!). On my way in, I saw Peter Mandelson at the checkout (buying sushi and what looked like stir fry ingredients). I’ve known for years that he lives nearby, but it’s the first time I’ve seen him

    You should have stolen his place in the queue, after asking him if he knew who you are?

    :wink:
    That would have been quite some manoeuvre given I didn't yet have shopping and there was an empty self checkout next to the one he was using!

    I know quite a few people that have met him socially, or served him in shops, or worked at his place, and they've all liked him. Even though most of them haven't liked his politics
    I’ve met him and he seemed perfectly charming. I never did understand the loathing he induced
    Many who met hitler socially thought he was charming
    Godwin o’clock already?

    Moral quandary for ye, if you could time travel and encountered Mandy as a baby, would you use your crossbow on him?
  • Options
    ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,183

    dixiedean said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt for @TimS

    Yes I know that hotel and region well. The golden villages of the beaujolais


    I did a whole piece about it over a week. I found the food a bit hit and miss and I got bored of gamay wine but those villages are charming and that particular hotel is fabulous. Enjoy!

    They also gave me a red 2CV to pootle around in. I have never felt so French


    It’s a lovely region. A bit Italian in architecture and scenery. It’s just over an hour south of our house near Cluny and we usually come for the day and eat somewhere like Oingt (pronounced like a rude word) but as there’s an occasion to celebrate and we’re without children this weekend we’re staying overnight.
    Which rude word can you pronounce "Oingt" as?
    Wanked.
    Reminds me of a recent post to local social media where a guy had been 'self pleasuring' and been disturbed by a drone outside his window videoing it.

    Modern times...
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    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Test

    Did you fail or pass?
    Finished early because the exam hall was at risk of collapse.

    On topic- it would be interesting to see the split by current views of Brexit. Are the blue to red switchers more Bregretters, or Confident Leavers (Brexit is fine and not in peril)?
    I suspect that most people (who, bizarrely, don’t read PB) have largely forgotten about it. We are out and it has not proved as transformational as some promised but neither have any of the downsides manifested themselves. The revisals of our GDP earlier this week removed the final remnants of the “economic disaster “ claim but they also showed that we are doing no better than average.
    We want a government that can do better and it doesn’t appear to be this one.
    Er .... the UK is not "out". Not by a long shot, if you are in impexp. HMG still hasn't sorted out customs. Partly, reportedly, for fear of the effect on inflation.

    And the impact on the "united" bit of the UK remains to be seen, notably but not only in NI.
    The UK is out, 100% out.

    As a sovereign and independent country it is entirely up to us whether or how we choose to "sort out" customs.

    We could choose to waive customs checks from here until eternity, and we'd remain out, that's the point of sovereignty we get to choose what our priorities are rather than having another institution determine what our priorities and checks are.
    r
    "We don't really need to worry about all those things we Brexiters were going on and on about for decades" isn't entirely a convincing argument.

    Especially when sovereignty over a large chunk of the former UK has been signed away in part.
    Except customs checks on EU imports weren't something Brexiteers were going on and on about for decades.

    I couldn't care less if those checks are waived indefinitely. So long as the UK can implement its own laws domestically, I have no objections whatsoever to recognising EU imports as an equivalence while not being bound to EU laws.
    "We want to be different from the Europeans" *means* customs checks, at the most fundamental level. To stop all those nasty foreign jars of stuff measured in kg, for instance.

    Pretending you don't want them is just not a reasonable argument.
    No, it doesn't.

    I can drive a Right Hand Drive vehicle that is different to Europeans Left Hand Drive vehicles, even if others import and drive Left Hand Drive vehicles.

    Or I can choose to buy goods measured in kg even if others choose to buy goods measured in lb.

    No reason that can't apply to other goods and services too.

    We can have our own domestic standards that we apply, and if people aren't happy with that and import foreign standards, then there's nothing wrong with that at all.

    "One size fits all" is one of the worst things about the EU. When the EEC began it was about recognising standards as equivalents, not unifying them, a return to that is to be welcomed.

    More choice. That's a good thing, not a bad thing.
    The problem is that we are European. Leaving the EU was like Rhode Island leaving the US. That is the only reason why we haven't, as we are required to do by international treaty, put up customs posts. "Sovereignty" is, and always has been, a myth. As soon as we are reunited with the rest of our country the better.
    That's not a problem, because its not true.

    We are European as in the continent, we are no more European as in EU than Canadians are "Americans".

    The UK isn't Rhode Island, the UK is Canada.

    As a sovereign country its our choice whether we put up customs posts or not, we are not obliged to do so. Many countries choose not to.
    We are not, and have never been, a “Sovereign Country”. Parliament claims to be sovereign, but can only assert that as a result of a Dutch Invasion of England. Sure, it was an invasion by RSVP, but an invasion nonetheless. Many invasions happen after a faction asks for intervention, and you can be sure that if William had failed we’d be celebrating it now.

    Britain, or more specifically England, has never been able to operate in a purely sovereign manner. We have always, throughout our history, been part of larger unions. We act at the behest of other European nations, always have, always will. Placing outside the formal structures of the EU doesn’t change that, just gives the government less influence on the decisions that affect us. People who say we are “sovereign” make about as much sense as
    Freemen on the Land types
    What a load of codswallop.

    England, or Britain post-union, has been sovereign for almost all of its existence.

    Yes we have foreign relations. Always have, always will. So does Canada, who incidentally still have our monarch.

    The idea we're not sovereign post-Brexit, because we have foreign relations, is utterly absurd. We don't act at the best of other European nations, we act at the behest of our own voters, and our own politicians.

    Even in the EU, we were typically on foreign relations closer aligned to our closest allies like America, than to other European nations. Which is why pooling sovereignty in foreign relations within the EU was such a terrible idea and one that never worked for us.
    The idea we weren't sovereign pre-Brexit is also absurd.
    It depends upon if you mean practically sovereign (UK Parliament/UK Government sets UK laws), or theoretically sovereign (EU Parliament/EU Commission sets EU laws which apply to the UK, but UK can leave the EU whenever it chooses).

    The UK was theoretically sovereign but not practically sovereign. Now its both. That's a meaningful change.

    Its like if a couple are married but the man insists upon making all decisions for the couple. The wife can get divorced, but otherwise doesn't get a say in making decisions.

    If the husband insists upon making all decisions, then is the wife making the decisions, because she's choosing not to get divorced?
  • Options
    ohnotnow said:

    While an election is expected next autumn — and could be as late as January 2025 — Starmer and his chief strategist Morgan McSweeney have told their troops that they think Sunak might go as early as May.

    If the public begins to acknowledge that the economy is improving, that would clear the way for the Tories to campaign on a message of “we are turning the corner, don’t let Labour ruin it”. Going in May could prevent local election results damaging the Tories further, and would avoid another summer of small boat arrivals.

    A senior Labour source said: “They seem to be keeping the option of May open and making it viable in a way they weren’t before. They’ve speeded-up candidate selection. They’re doing a lot more direct mail.”


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/summers-over-for-rishi-sunak-and-keir-starmer-but-theyre-still-all-at-sea-8gkqf50cc

    We are a pretty fickle bunch if we buy an economic recovery after a couple of months of 4% inflation figures. Does Rishi understand inflation is cumulative? I suppose he could always reheat "eat out to help out" or whatever it was called.
    I think that he just has to believe that voters will think "A smaller number - phew!". It's not like the current media landscape is exactly encouraging understanding of what inflation is.

    That and a couple of tweaks to tax policy - who knows. Sad though it makes me - I can see them winning and chugging downwards for another few years yet.
    I think HMS Taxcut may have definitively left the harbour this week. There's both the actual need to spend shedloads of cash and the perception that cutting taxes when schools'n'hospitals are falling down is rather uncouth.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 41,556
    edited September 2023

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Test

    Did you fail or pass?
    Finished early because the exam hall was at risk of collapse.

    On topic- it would be interesting to see the split by current views of Brexit. Are the blue to red switchers more Bregretters, or Confident Leavers (Brexit is fine and not in peril)?
    I suspect that most people (who, bizarrely, don’t read PB) have largely forgotten about it. We are out and it has not proved as transformational as some promised but neither have any of the downsides manifested themselves. The revisals of our GDP earlier this week removed the final remnants of the “economic disaster “ claim but they also showed that we are doing no better than average.
    We want a government that can do better and it doesn’t appear to be this one.
    Er .... the UK is not "out". Not by a long shot, if you are in impexp. HMG still hasn't sorted out customs. Partly, reportedly, for fear of the effect on inflation.

    And the impact on the "united" bit of the UK remains to be seen, notably but not only in NI.
    The UK is out, 100% out.

    As a sovereign and independent country it is entirely up to us whether or how we choose to "sort out" customs.

    We could choose to waive customs checks from here until eternity, and we'd remain out, that's the point of sovereignty we get to choose what our priorities are rather than having another institution determine what our priorities and checks are.
    r
    "We don't really need to worry about all those things we Brexiters were going on and on about for decades" isn't entirely a convincing argument.

    Especially when sovereignty over a large chunk of the former UK has been signed away in part.
    Except customs checks on EU imports weren't something Brexiteers were going on and on about for decades.

    I couldn't care less if those checks are waived indefinitely. So long as the UK can implement its own laws domestically, I have no objections whatsoever to recognising EU imports as an equivalence while not being bound to EU laws.
    "We want to be different from the Europeans" *means* customs checks, at the most fundamental level. To stop all those nasty foreign jars of stuff measured in kg, for instance.

    Pretending you don't want them is just not a reasonable argument.
    No, it doesn't.

    I can drive a Right Hand Drive vehicle that is different to Europeans Left Hand Drive vehicles, even if others import and drive Left Hand Drive vehicles.

    Or I can choose to buy goods measured in kg even if others choose to buy goods measured in lb.

    No reason that can't apply to other goods and services too.

    We can have our own domestic standards that we apply, and if people aren't happy with that and import foreign standards, then there's nothing wrong with that at all.

    "One size fits all" is one of the worst things about the EU. When the EEC began it was about recognising standards as equivalents, not unifying them, a return to that is to be welcomed.

    More choice. That's a good thing, not a bad thing.
    The problem is that we are European. Leaving the EU was like Rhode Island leaving the US. That is the only reason why we haven't, as we are required to do by international treaty, put up customs posts. "Sovereignty" is, and always has been, a myth. As soon as we are reunited with the rest of our country the better.
    That's not a problem, because its not true.

    We are European as in the continent, we are no more European as in EU than Canadians are "Americans".

    The UK isn't Rhode Island, the UK is Canada.

    As a sovereign country its our choice whether we put up customs posts or not, we are not obliged to do so. Many countries choose not to.
    We are not, and have never been, a “Sovereign Country”. Parliament claims to be sovereign, but can only assert that as a result of a Dutch Invasion of England. Sure, it was an invasion by RSVP, but an invasion nonetheless. Many invasions happen after a faction asks for intervention, and you can be sure that if William had failed we’d be celebrating it now.

    Britain, or more specifically England, has never been able to operate in a purely sovereign manner. We have always, throughout our history, been part of larger unions. We act at the behest of other European nations, always have, always will. Placing outside the formal structures of the EU doesn’t change that, just gives the government less influence on the decisions that affect us. People who say we are “sovereign” make about as much sense as
    Freemen on the Land types
    What a load of codswallop.

    England, or Britain post-union, has been sovereign for almost all of its existence.

    Yes we have foreign relations. Always have, always will. So does Canada, who incidentally still have our monarch.

    The idea we're not sovereign post-Brexit, because we have foreign relations, is utterly absurd. We don't act at the best of other European nations, we act at the behest of our own voters, and our own politicians.

    Even in the EU, we were typically on foreign relations closer aligned to our closest allies like America, than to other European nations. Which is why pooling sovereignty in foreign relations within the EU was such a terrible idea and one that never worked for us.
    The idea we weren't sovereign pre-Brexit is also absurd.
    It depends upon if you mean practically sovereign (UK Parliament/UK Government sets UK laws), or theoretically sovereign (EU Parliament/EU Commission sets EU laws which apply to the UK, but UK can leave the EU whenever it chooses).

    The UK was theoretically sovereign but not practically sovereign. Now its both. That's a meaningful change.

    Its like if a couple are married but the man insists upon making all decisions for the couple. The wife can get divorced, but otherwise doesn't get a say in making decisions.

    If the husband insists upon making all decisions, then is the wife making the decisions, because she's choosing not to get divorced?
    This reminds me of Mrs T reducing state budgeting to a model based on domestic finance, at least for voter consumption.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 68,800
    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Just finished another eleven hour shift, so up to sixty hours hours since the Bank Holiday. I think I’ll get to seventy-five for the week after working tomorrow and Monday

    I popped into Waitrose on the way home and got cheap dinner (a minted pea and bacon quiche for £1.39!). On my way in, I saw Peter Mandelson at the checkout (buying sushi and what looked like stir fry ingredients). I’ve known for years that he lives nearby, but it’s the first time I’ve seen him

    You should have stolen his place in the queue, after asking him if he knew who you are?

    :wink:
    That would have been quite some manoeuvre given I didn't yet have shopping and there was an empty self checkout next to the one he was using!

    I know quite a few people that have met him socially, or served him in shops, or worked at his place, and they've all liked him. Even though most of them haven't liked his politics
    I’ve met him and he seemed perfectly charming. I never did understand the loathing he induced
    Many who met hitler socially thought he was charming
    I think not. Talked relentlessly. Never listened. Bad breath too.
    Halifax thought Hitler an absolute bellend (well, he called him a 'horrid little man' which in Halifax-speak was much the same thing).

    To give you some idea of how low Halifax's standards were, he rather liked Goebbels.

    So to be fundamentally disliked by Halifax was quite an achievement.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 68,800
    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Test

    Did you fail or pass?
    Finished early because the exam hall was at risk of collapse.

    On topic- it would be interesting to see the split by current views of Brexit. Are the blue to red switchers more Bregretters, or Confident Leavers (Brexit is fine and not in peril)?
    I suspect that most people (who, bizarrely, don’t read PB) have largely forgotten about it. We are out and it has not proved as transformational as some promised but neither have any of the downsides manifested themselves. The revisals of our GDP earlier this week removed the final remnants of the “economic disaster “ claim but they also showed that we are doing no better than average.
    We want a government that can do better and it doesn’t appear to be this one.
    Er .... the UK is not "out". Not by a long shot, if you are in impexp. HMG still hasn't sorted out customs. Partly, reportedly, for fear of the effect on inflation.

    And the impact on the "united" bit of the UK remains to be seen, notably but not only in NI.
    The UK is out, 100% out.

    As a sovereign and independent country it is entirely up to us whether or how we choose to "sort out" customs.

    We could choose to waive customs checks from here until eternity, and we'd remain out, that's the point of sovereignty we get to choose what our priorities are rather than having another institution determine what our priorities and checks are.
    r
    "We don't really need to worry about all those things we Brexiters were going on and on about for decades" isn't entirely a convincing argument.

    Especially when sovereignty over a large chunk of the former UK has been signed away in part.
    Except customs checks on EU imports weren't something Brexiteers were going on and on about for decades.

    I couldn't care less if those checks are waived indefinitely. So long as the UK can implement its own laws domestically, I have no objections whatsoever to recognising EU imports as an equivalence while not being bound to EU laws.
    "We want to be different from the Europeans" *means* customs checks, at the most fundamental level. To stop all those nasty foreign jars of stuff measured in kg, for instance.

    Pretending you don't want them is just not a reasonable argument.
    No, it doesn't.

    I can drive a Right Hand Drive vehicle that is different to Europeans Left Hand Drive vehicles, even if others import and drive Left Hand Drive vehicles.

    Or I can choose to buy goods measured in kg even if others choose to buy goods measured in lb.

    No reason that can't apply to other goods and services too.

    We can have our own domestic standards that we apply, and if people aren't happy with that and import foreign standards, then there's nothing wrong with that at all.

    "One size fits all" is one of the worst things about the EU. When the EEC began it was about recognising standards as equivalents, not unifying them, a return to that is to be welcomed.

    More choice. That's a good thing, not a bad thing.
    The problem is that we are European. Leaving the EU was like Rhode Island leaving the US. That is the only reason why we haven't, as we are required to do by international treaty, put up customs posts. "Sovereignty" is, and always has been, a myth. As soon as we are reunited with the rest of our country the better.
    That's not a problem, because its not true.

    We are European as in the continent, we are no more European as in EU than Canadians are "Americans".

    The UK isn't Rhode Island, the UK is Canada.

    As a sovereign country its our choice whether we put up customs posts or not, we are not obliged to do so. Many countries choose not to.
    We are not, and have never been, a “Sovereign Country”. Parliament claims to be sovereign, but can only assert that as a result of a Dutch Invasion of England. Sure, it was an invasion by RSVP, but an invasion nonetheless. Many invasions happen after a faction asks for intervention, and you can be sure that if William had failed we’d be celebrating it now.

    Britain, or more specifically England, has never been able to operate in a purely sovereign manner. We have always, throughout our history, been part of larger unions. We act at the behest of other European nations, always have, always will. Placing outside the formal structures of the EU doesn’t change that, just gives the government less influence on the decisions that affect us. People who say we are “sovereign” make about as much sense as
    Freemen on the Land types
    What a load of codswallop.

    England, or Britain post-union, has been sovereign for almost all of its existence.

    Yes we have foreign relations. Always have, always will. So does Canada, who incidentally still have our monarch.

    The idea we're not sovereign post-Brexit, because we have foreign relations, is utterly absurd. We don't act at the best of other European nations, we act at the behest of our own voters, and our own politicians.

    Even in the EU, we were typically on foreign relations closer aligned to our closest allies like America, than to other European nations. Which is why pooling sovereignty in foreign relations within the EU was such a terrible idea and one that never worked for us.
    The idea we weren't sovereign pre-Brexit is also absurd.
    It depends upon if you mean practically sovereign (UK Parliament/UK Government sets UK laws), or theoretically sovereign (EU Parliament/EU Commission sets EU laws which apply to the UK, but UK can leave the EU whenever it chooses).

    The UK was theoretically sovereign but not practically sovereign. Now its both. That's a meaningful change.

    Its like if a couple are married but the man insists upon making all decisions for the couple. The wife can get divorced, but otherwise doesn't get a say in making decisions.

    If the husband insists upon making all decisions, then is the wife making the decisions, because she's choosing not to get divorced?
    This reminds me of Mrs T reducing state budgeting to a model based on domestic finance, at least for voter consumption.
    All political leaders do that. Look at Merkel and the Schwabian hausfrau.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 21,722
    edited September 2023

    ohnotnow said:

    While an election is expected next autumn — and could be as late as January 2025 — Starmer and his chief strategist Morgan McSweeney have told their troops that they think Sunak might go as early as May.

    If the public begins to acknowledge that the economy is improving, that would clear the way for the Tories to campaign on a message of “we are turning the corner, don’t let Labour ruin it”. Going in May could prevent local election results damaging the Tories further, and would avoid another summer of small boat arrivals.

    A senior Labour source said: “They seem to be keeping the option of May open and making it viable in a way they weren’t before. They’ve speeded-up candidate selection. They’re doing a lot more direct mail.”


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/summers-over-for-rishi-sunak-and-keir-starmer-but-theyre-still-all-at-sea-8gkqf50cc

    We are a pretty fickle bunch if we buy an economic recovery after a couple of months of 4% inflation figures. Does Rishi understand inflation is cumulative? I suppose he could always reheat "eat out to help out" or whatever it was called.
    I think that he just has to believe that voters will think "A smaller number - phew!". It's not like the current media landscape is exactly encouraging understanding of what inflation is.

    That and a couple of tweaks to tax policy - who knows. Sad though it makes me - I can see them winning and chugging downwards for another few years yet.
    I think HMS Taxcut may have definitively left the harbour this week. There's both the actual need to spend shedloads of cash and the perception that cutting taxes when schools'n'hospitals are falling down is rather uncouth.
    A question that no one will ask (well very few, and they shall be ignored) is who is going to do all this rebuilding work. Building trade is short hundreds of thousands of workers already.
  • Options
    ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,183

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Just finished another eleven hour shift, so up to sixty hours hours since the Bank Holiday. I think I’ll get to seventy-five for the week after working tomorrow and Monday

    I popped into Waitrose on the way home and got cheap dinner (a minted pea and bacon quiche for £1.39!). On my way in, I saw Peter Mandelson at the checkout (buying sushi and what looked like stir fry ingredients). I’ve known for years that he lives nearby, but it’s the first time I’ve seen him

    You should have stolen his place in the queue, after asking him if he knew who you are?

    :wink:
    That would have been quite some manoeuvre given I didn't yet have shopping and there was an empty self checkout next to the one he was using!

    I know quite a few people that have met him socially, or served him in shops, or worked at his place, and they've all liked him. Even though most of them haven't liked his politics
    I’ve met him and he seemed perfectly charming. I never did understand the loathing he induced
    Many who met hitler socially thought he was charming
    I think not. Talked relentlessly. Never listened. Bad breath too.
    Hitler also had a micro penis and slept with his niece.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/adolf-hitler-micro-penis-slept-22397919
    Watersports with the niece, reportedly. Who then killed herself. Other than that - people report he was quite charming.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 50,693
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Just finished another eleven hour shift, so up to sixty hours hours since the Bank Holiday. I think I’ll get to seventy-five for the week after working tomorrow and Monday

    I popped into Waitrose on the way home and got cheap dinner (a minted pea and bacon quiche for £1.39!). On my way in, I saw Peter Mandelson at the checkout (buying sushi and what looked like stir fry ingredients). I’ve known for years that he lives nearby, but it’s the first time I’ve seen him

    You should have stolen his place in the queue, after asking him if he knew who you are?

    :wink:
    That would have been quite some manoeuvre given I didn't yet have shopping and there was an empty self checkout next to the one he was using!

    I know quite a few people that have met him socially, or served him in shops, or worked at his place, and they've all liked him. Even though most of them haven't liked his politics
    I’ve met him and he seemed perfectly charming. I never did understand the loathing he induced
    Homophobia in the mix, I suppose.
    Also, Mandelson never bothered to disguise his centrism, so the left abjured him, and he was seriously clever, and never tried to hide that either, which annoyed everyone

    He would have made an excellent, Machiavellian prime minister. A British Macron
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Just finished another eleven hour shift, so up to sixty hours hours since the Bank Holiday. I think I’ll get to seventy-five for the week after working tomorrow and Monday

    I popped into Waitrose on the way home and got cheap dinner (a minted pea and bacon quiche for £1.39!). On my way in, I saw Peter Mandelson at the checkout (buying sushi and what looked like stir fry ingredients). I’ve known for years that he lives nearby, but it’s the first time I’ve seen him

    You should have stolen his place in the queue, after asking him if he knew who you are?

    :wink:
    That would have been quite some manoeuvre given I didn't yet have shopping and there was an empty self checkout next to the one he was using!

    I know quite a few people that have met him socially, or served him in shops, or worked at his place, and they've all liked him. Even though most of them haven't liked his politics
    I’ve met him and he seemed perfectly charming. I never did understand the loathing he induced
    Many who met hitler socially thought he was charming
    I think not. Talked relentlessly. Never listened. Bad breath too.
    Halifax thought Hitler an absolute bellend (well, he called him a 'horrid little man' which in Halifax-speak was much the same thing).

    To give you some idea of how low Halifax's standards were, he rather liked Goebbels.

    So to be fundamentally disliked by Halifax was quite an achievement.
    Yorkshiremen have fantastic judgment.
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    Given inflation has almost halved since he took over from Truss as PM I think Sunak has some room to claim credit for that. Plus if he doesn't boast about his government's achievements, who else will?

    Why does Sunak deserve credit for that?

    Sunak hasn't taken any meaningful decisions that made inflation fall. The inflation spike was always temporary for known reasons and was always going to fall. Its fallen globally.

    Your logic is like saying if the temperature falls between August and February that the PM deserve credit for resolving global warming.
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 13,246
    Evening all :)

    The first Opinium of this year in mid January had Labour 45%, Conservatives 29% and Liberal Democrats 9% so that's Labour down three and Conservatives down one and LDs unchanged. Reform are up from six to eight.

    Effectively, as with Techne, little or no change.

    Go further back and the late October 2022 poll from Opinium was 44-28-10 so well within margin of error of tonight's poll so it's quite clear while Sunak was able to improve on the disastrous ratings from the end of the Truss debacle, he's made no substantive headway in nearly a year. Opinion (or Opinium) hasn't shifted.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 68,800

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Just finished another eleven hour shift, so up to sixty hours hours since the Bank Holiday. I think I’ll get to seventy-five for the week after working tomorrow and Monday

    I popped into Waitrose on the way home and got cheap dinner (a minted pea and bacon quiche for £1.39!). On my way in, I saw Peter Mandelson at the checkout (buying sushi and what looked like stir fry ingredients). I’ve known for years that he lives nearby, but it’s the first time I’ve seen him

    You should have stolen his place in the queue, after asking him if he knew who you are?

    :wink:
    That would have been quite some manoeuvre given I didn't yet have shopping and there was an empty self checkout next to the one he was using!

    I know quite a few people that have met him socially, or served him in shops, or worked at his place, and they've all liked him. Even though most of them haven't liked his politics
    I’ve met him and he seemed perfectly charming. I never did understand the loathing he induced
    Many who met hitler socially thought he was charming
    I think not. Talked relentlessly. Never listened. Bad breath too.
    Halifax thought Hitler an absolute bellend (well, he called him a 'horrid little man' which in Halifax-speak was much the same thing).

    To give you some idea of how low Halifax's standards were, he rather liked Goebbels.

    So to be fundamentally disliked by Halifax was quite an achievement.
    Yorkshiremen have fantastic judgment.
    That comment seems a bit off Ballance.
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Just finished another eleven hour shift, so up to sixty hours hours since the Bank Holiday. I think I’ll get to seventy-five for the week after working tomorrow and Monday

    I popped into Waitrose on the way home and got cheap dinner (a minted pea and bacon quiche for £1.39!). On my way in, I saw Peter Mandelson at the checkout (buying sushi and what looked like stir fry ingredients). I’ve known for years that he lives nearby, but it’s the first time I’ve seen him

    You should have stolen his place in the queue, after asking him if he knew who you are?

    :wink:
    That would have been quite some manoeuvre given I didn't yet have shopping and there was an empty self checkout next to the one he was using!

    I know quite a few people that have met him socially, or served him in shops, or worked at his place, and they've all liked him. Even though most of them haven't liked his politics
    I’ve met him and he seemed perfectly charming. I never did understand the loathing he induced
    Many who met hitler socially thought he was charming
    I think not. Talked relentlessly. Never listened. Bad breath too.
    Halifax thought Hitler an absolute bellend (well, he called him a 'horrid little man' which in Halifax-speak was much the same thing).

    To give you some idea of how low Halifax's standards were, he rather liked Goebbels.

    So to be fundamentally disliked by Halifax was quite an achievement.
    Yorkshiremen have fantastic judgment.
    That comment seems a bit off Ballance.
    He was from Zimbabwe.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 50,693
    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Just finished another eleven hour shift, so up to sixty hours hours since the Bank Holiday. I think I’ll get to seventy-five for the week after working tomorrow and Monday

    I popped into Waitrose on the way home and got cheap dinner (a minted pea and bacon quiche for £1.39!). On my way in, I saw Peter Mandelson at the checkout (buying sushi and what looked like stir fry ingredients). I’ve known for years that he lives nearby, but it’s the first time I’ve seen him

    You should have stolen his place in the queue, after asking him if he knew who you are?

    :wink:
    That would have been quite some manoeuvre given I didn't yet have shopping and there was an empty self checkout next to the one he was using!

    I know quite a few people that have met him socially, or served him in shops, or worked at his place, and they've all liked him. Even though most of them haven't liked his politics
    I’ve met him and he seemed perfectly charming. I never did understand the loathing he induced
    Many who met hitler socially thought he was charming
    I think not. Talked relentlessly. Never listened. Bad breath too.
    Not true. The earlier, younger Hitler was apparently quite charming. He was good at seducing upper class German ladies into donating money. Got invited to posh parties: as the amusing firebrand plebiean radical who nonetheless knew a lot about opera and art
  • Options
    ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,183

    ohnotnow said:

    While an election is expected next autumn — and could be as late as January 2025 — Starmer and his chief strategist Morgan McSweeney have told their troops that they think Sunak might go as early as May.

    If the public begins to acknowledge that the economy is improving, that would clear the way for the Tories to campaign on a message of “we are turning the corner, don’t let Labour ruin it”. Going in May could prevent local election results damaging the Tories further, and would avoid another summer of small boat arrivals.

    A senior Labour source said: “They seem to be keeping the option of May open and making it viable in a way they weren’t before. They’ve speeded-up candidate selection. They’re doing a lot more direct mail.”


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/summers-over-for-rishi-sunak-and-keir-starmer-but-theyre-still-all-at-sea-8gkqf50cc

    We are a pretty fickle bunch if we buy an economic recovery after a couple of months of 4% inflation figures. Does Rishi understand inflation is cumulative? I suppose he could always reheat "eat out to help out" or whatever it was called.
    I think that he just has to believe that voters will think "A smaller number - phew!". It's not like the current media landscape is exactly encouraging understanding of what inflation is.

    That and a couple of tweaks to tax policy - who knows. Sad though it makes me - I can see them winning and chugging downwards for another few years yet.
    I think HMS Taxcut may have definitively left the harbour this week. There's both the actual need to spend shedloads of cash and the perception that cutting taxes when schools'n'hospitals are falling down is rather uncouth.
    But there's always a need to spend shedloads of cash on boring old 'keeping the roof in order'.

    A shiny tax cut though. And who really needs roofs anyway? When you think about it?
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 50,693
    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Just finished another eleven hour shift, so up to sixty hours hours since the Bank Holiday. I think I’ll get to seventy-five for the week after working tomorrow and Monday

    I popped into Waitrose on the way home and got cheap dinner (a minted pea and bacon quiche for £1.39!). On my way in, I saw Peter Mandelson at the checkout (buying sushi and what looked like stir fry ingredients). I’ve known for years that he lives nearby, but it’s the first time I’ve seen him

    You should have stolen his place in the queue, after asking him if he knew who you are?

    :wink:
    That would have been quite some manoeuvre given I didn't yet have shopping and there was an empty self checkout next to the one he was using!

    I know quite a few people that have met him socially, or served him in shops, or worked at his place, and they've all liked him. Even though most of them haven't liked his politics
    I’ve met him and he seemed perfectly charming. I never did understand the loathing he induced
    Many who met hitler socially thought he was charming
    I think not. Talked relentlessly. Never listened. Bad breath too.
    Halifax thought Hitler an absolute bellend (well, he called him a 'horrid little man' which in Halifax-speak was much the same thing).

    To give you some idea of how low Halifax's standards were, he rather liked Goebbels.

    So to be fundamentally disliked by Halifax was quite an achievement.
    But these people tended to meet Hitler in the later years, when he was Fuhrer, and (understandably) a tad full of himself and fond of his own loathsome voice and opinions

    The interesting Hitler (from a social perspective) is the lower class corporal who rose to power from the end of WW1 to 1932. He was, by many accounts, intriguing, articulate and charismatic. He didn't rise all that way entirely by accident
  • Options
    BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 20,138
    edited September 2023

    Just finished another eleven hour shift, so up to sixty hours hours since the Bank Holiday. I think I’ll get to seventy-five for the week after working tomorrow and Monday

    I popped into Waitrose on the way home and got cheap dinner (a minted pea and bacon quiche for £1.39!). On my way in, I saw Peter Mandelson at the checkout (buying sushi and what looked like stir fry ingredients). I’ve known for years that he lives nearby, but it’s the first time I’ve seen him

    Everything about that story is so Peter Mandelson.
    What, he goes to Waitrose like the original poster?

    My issue with Mandelson in this story is that it’s not really possible to get edible sushi from a supermarket in Britain.
    My local Asda has a sushi counter where the sushi is freshly made and prepared.

    That is completely edible and a world of difference from traditional supermarket sushi.

    Its also priced accordingly, its £10 for a sushi box that would be £3 for the same sized box in the sandwich fridges typically, but you pay for quality.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,109
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Just finished another eleven hour shift, so up to sixty hours hours since the Bank Holiday. I think I’ll get to seventy-five for the week after working tomorrow and Monday

    I popped into Waitrose on the way home and got cheap dinner (a minted pea and bacon quiche for £1.39!). On my way in, I saw Peter Mandelson at the checkout (buying sushi and what looked like stir fry ingredients). I’ve known for years that he lives nearby, but it’s the first time I’ve seen him

    You should have stolen his place in the queue, after asking him if he knew who you are?

    :wink:
    That would have been quite some manoeuvre given I didn't yet have shopping and there was an empty self checkout next to the one he was using!

    I know quite a few people that have met him socially, or served him in shops, or worked at his place, and they've all liked him. Even though most of them haven't liked his politics
    I’ve met him and he seemed perfectly charming. I never did understand the loathing he induced
    Many who met hitler socially thought he was charming
    I think not. Talked relentlessly. Never listened. Bad breath too.
    Not true. The earlier, younger Hitler was apparently quite charming. He was good at seducing upper class German ladies into donating money. Got invited to posh parties: as the amusing firebrand plebiean radical who nonetheless knew a lot about opera and art
    You’ve surely not still got young Hitler on your screensaver?
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    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,202

    Heathener said:

    Agree with Mike.

    I don't think Sunak is anything like such a flawed character as Boris Johnson but in terms of political electability he is far worse. He is not (yet) the liability that Liz Truss was but he is extraordinarily tone deaf to where people are at. And he becomes petulant when questioned: how dare any minion be so rude as to doubt his truth?

    I have Conservative friends who really dislike him and that's not a good sign.

    Good evening

    Sunak is the best the conservatives have got, despite his flaws, and the mountain that the toxic legacy of Johnson and the diabolical Truss left him is a very tall order to overcome

    If tonight's poll by Opinium in the Guardian is anything to go by neither Sunak or Starmer are setting the narrative alight with only 27% and 23% respectively seeing Starmer better than Sunak as PM

    I expect the conservatives to pay a price at the next GE, but even Starmer's most avid fans must accept he is hardly inspiring the nation
    Other pollsters also do best PM and Opinium are by far the stingiest in Starmer’s lead. Of other pollsters have recently polled this, Starmer leads Sunak 44-34 (R&W) and 37-28 (We Think) on the "better PM" question. Even in unliked outgoing governments it’s supposed to be hard for a PM to fall so far behind on this measure.

    No, Sunak is not “the best the Conservatives have got” not by any measure. You are dangerously misreading this situation. Sunak is now out of touch with the public, not because he is filthy rich but because his politics and that of the government he leads has been revealed to be too dry and right wing for the UK today. He promises, over promises, and doesn’t deliver. Which makes every new promise, vow and policy, worthless. The result is voters are no longer listening to him selectively quoting and talking up we have never had it so good, and they won’t all they way up to voting day.

    The scale of the Tory catastrophe at the next General Election does not rest at all on Starmer and his policy’s “inspiring the nation”, it will be based on the breadth and depth of voters no longer listening to the Conservatives, making the weeks of the election campaign all about how sleazy, useless, out of touch and dangerous the Tory Party are.

    The best hope for the Conservatives now is to change these faces and voices at the top of the government to more everyday, grounded and in touch fresh faces, in order for a more aspirational message that has more broader appeal across more voters to be listened to and considered.

    Hunt and Sunak cannot deliver that message, because they are no longer listened to. From here the Conservatives need to be listened to again, to save as many seats as they can. That’s why Sunak, Hunt and Braverman have to go.
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    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Just finished another eleven hour shift, so up to sixty hours hours since the Bank Holiday. I think I’ll get to seventy-five for the week after working tomorrow and Monday

    I popped into Waitrose on the way home and got cheap dinner (a minted pea and bacon quiche for £1.39!). On my way in, I saw Peter Mandelson at the checkout (buying sushi and what looked like stir fry ingredients). I’ve known for years that he lives nearby, but it’s the first time I’ve seen him

    You should have stolen his place in the queue, after asking him if he knew who you are?

    :wink:
    That would have been quite some manoeuvre given I didn't yet have shopping and there was an empty self checkout next to the one he was using!

    I know quite a few people that have met him socially, or served him in shops, or worked at his place, and they've all liked him. Even though most of them haven't liked his politics
    I’ve met him and he seemed perfectly charming. I never did understand the loathing he induced
    Homophobia in the mix, I suppose.
    Also, Mandelson never bothered to disguise his centrism, so the left abjured him, and he was seriously clever, and never tried to hide that either, which annoyed everyone

    He would have made an excellent, Machiavellian prime minister. A British Macron
    Apparently you always knew when Mandelson had it in for you. That's not particularly Machiavellian is it, just someone who loves creating drama.

    It's nice to hear that he's nice to people in his normal life though - I set a fair bit of store by that, genuinely. It's the first time I can recall hearing something about Mandelson to put in the plus column.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 68,800
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Just finished another eleven hour shift, so up to sixty hours hours since the Bank Holiday. I think I’ll get to seventy-five for the week after working tomorrow and Monday

    I popped into Waitrose on the way home and got cheap dinner (a minted pea and bacon quiche for £1.39!). On my way in, I saw Peter Mandelson at the checkout (buying sushi and what looked like stir fry ingredients). I’ve known for years that he lives nearby, but it’s the first time I’ve seen him

    You should have stolen his place in the queue, after asking him if he knew who you are?

    :wink:
    That would have been quite some manoeuvre given I didn't yet have shopping and there was an empty self checkout next to the one he was using!

    I know quite a few people that have met him socially, or served him in shops, or worked at his place, and they've all liked him. Even though most of them haven't liked his politics
    I’ve met him and he seemed perfectly charming. I never did understand the loathing he induced
    Many who met hitler socially thought he was charming
    I think not. Talked relentlessly. Never listened. Bad breath too.
    Not true. The earlier, younger Hitler was apparently quite charming. He was good at seducing upper class German ladies into donating money. Got invited to posh parties: as the amusing firebrand plebiean radical who nonetheless knew a lot about opera and art
    That is not the impression Cyril Coles (former senior MI officer in Germany who knew both Conrad Adenauer and Hitler during the 1920s) gave in his fictionalised memoirs.

    He portrayed Hitler as a boorish, lightweight misogynist, summed up by one character commenting, with a laugh, 'your saviour of Germany is quite the funniest [as in, weirdest] little man I've ever met.'
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 11,558

    Scottish subsample klaxon.

    Lab 36%

    SNP 32%

    Via Opinium.

    There have been a number of interesting Scottish subsamples lately, with one or two having Labour in the lead.

  • Options
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Just finished another eleven hour shift, so up to sixty hours hours since the Bank Holiday. I think I’ll get to seventy-five for the week after working tomorrow and Monday

    I popped into Waitrose on the way home and got cheap dinner (a minted pea and bacon quiche for £1.39!). On my way in, I saw Peter Mandelson at the checkout (buying sushi and what looked like stir fry ingredients). I’ve known for years that he lives nearby, but it’s the first time I’ve seen him

    You should have stolen his place in the queue, after asking him if he knew who you are?

    :wink:
    That would have been quite some manoeuvre given I didn't yet have shopping and there was an empty self checkout next to the one he was using!

    I know quite a few people that have met him socially, or served him in shops, or worked at his place, and they've all liked him. Even though most of them haven't liked his politics
    I’ve met him and he seemed perfectly charming. I never did understand the loathing he induced
    Homophobia in the mix, I suppose.
    Also, Mandelson never bothered to disguise his centrism, so the left abjured him, and he was seriously clever, and never tried to hide that either, which annoyed everyone

    He would have made an excellent, Machiavellian prime minister. A British Macron
    Ooh, there's a nice challenge for a warm dark evening.

    How do you get Mandelson into Number Ten?

    Hard to see how that happens, but yes, smart enough to do an elegant job once butterflied there.

    Possibly a Starmeresque "made LotO to do an internal cleanup before handing over to the next PM,but the Conservatives collapse prematurely" job...
This discussion has been closed.