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The betting continues on the by-election that might not happen – politicalbetting.com

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  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    viewcode said:

    Carnyx said:

    viewcode said:

    Carnyx said:

    viewcode said:

    I've been trying to avoid the miscellaneous upcoming stupid future shit (piped hydrogen, online safety bill, something to do with boilers, all cars must be electric and somebody else's, all roads must be closed, more stupid MP shit that only works if you are rich), but I must confess to ignorance about heat pumps. Can some kind person explain to me what they involve and what degree of compulsion they entail? If I'm going to go full Meldrew it helps to be informed with facts.

    Some stuff for idiots (i. e. me):

    https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/ground-and-air-source-heat-pumps/article/guides

    Re legal stuff, I believe that option A gas boilers are to be phased out so heat pumps are obviously one option B.

    https://www.britishgas.co.uk/the-source/greener-living/gas-boilers-ban-2025.html
    [edit also] https://heatable.co.uk/boiler-advice/are-gas-boilers-being-phased-out

    [edit] but I am sure some expert on PB will advise.
    So a heat pump is an inside-out fridge that runs on electricity and is the size of an old sideboard and a bit bigger than a Wheely bin. For it to work you must be able to run a pipe from inside your house to outside.

    People in flats won't be able to have one.
    Air to ground, no, but what about air to air pump surely?
    How do I move air inside to air outside without going thru the walls (forbidden in leasehold properties) or windows (again difficult)?
    Apparently in many buildings they have placed things in walls - I believe they're called "windows" - that allow light and air through in certain circumstances. But, fuck, what do I know?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    When you think about it, the fact phones work - or used to work - during a power cut is a pretty clever bit of engineering, although they didn't think of it like that when they invented the system.

    I was in Manhattan in 2003 when there was the great blackout. My mobile phone - a Nokia - continued to be able to call England for about 48 hours, before its battery died. It was quite bizarre: not a light on in the whole city, but I could call home.
    I’ve never quite understood how GPS works if you have no signal or wifi

    I mean, I’ve read explanations and I get them. But it still seems counterintuitive
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    Dura_Ace said:

    Put simply: I don't trust those who are pushing air-source heat pumps; they all have an agenda.

    I'm not risking the comfort and wellbeing of my family and a warm home until I go round to a trusted friend or neighbours house (on a cold and dark night) and feel it for myself, including having a hot bath.

    I now have an image in my head of a bloke of a certain age turning up on doorsteps in a frayed shorty terrycloth bathrobe and a towel over his arm, angrily demanding a bath. Not good.

    Who's in the bathroom?
    That angry bloke from next door. He took a picture of the old queen and a cucumber in with him.
    I've searched Google and haven't been able to find a picture of the late Queen with a cucumber; are you sure it isn't AI generated?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,188

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    We will come out of this Ashes series never quite knowing which was the better team

    One of sporting history’s Might Have Beens

    Clearly England have played the more entertaining and aggressive cricket, but is that better?

    YES IT IS

    Winning doesn't matter as long as you play more entertaining cricket?
    Right now? With Test cricket on the edge of oblivion? I would actually say Yes

    Entertainment is more important. And besides, England have come PAINFULLY close to winning this series. Denied by rain at OT, could easily have won at Lord’s or Edgbaston

    If Test cricket has any future, England have shown where it must go. It’s that simple

    100% correct. England may well have saved test cricket. That is a lot more important than winning the Ashes.

    That said, for test cricket to be truly saved, it needs a strong West Indies.

    Clearly a notch below India in tests.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153

    So, if you spend £100k to totally rebuild your house, strip down the outside walls, fill the cavities, create a giant underground heating system, retrofit all the glazing and loft insulation and you don't mind cold baths, and are fine with wearing several jumpers and dressing gowns when it gets properly cold, then installing a strapping great ASHP can work really well. Otherwise, forget it.

    Glad we cleared that up.

    In New York - where it gets a lot colder than the UK - a lot of apartments are swapping AC units for window hanging ASHPs; admittedly, that's mostly because they are simply so much more efficient* at cooling than traditional AC units.

    * As in cheap from an electrical point of view
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,652
    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    We will come out of this Ashes series never quite knowing which was the better team

    One of sporting history’s Might Have Beens

    Clearly England have played the more entertaining and aggressive cricket, but is that better?

    YES IT IS

    Weird series. England lacked cold clinical ruthlessness (and the ability to catch) when it counted. A case of what might have been.

    Poor selections have cost England. Bairstow's batting may just have made up for the dodgy keeping, but leaving out Woakes for the first two tests was a clear error. Edgbaston is his home ground. I am not sure if Woods was fit to play those games. If he was, though, leaving him out was clearly a mistake too.

  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    People in flats won't be able to have one [a heat pump].

    Phil said:

    Yes they will, you just bolt the heat exchanger to the outside of the wall: A heat pump is just an air conditioner running in reverse. If you can fit air<->air aircon then you can fit aircon that works as a heater too.

    People in flats have air conditioners. They will be able to have heat pumps.

    @Phil, @LostPassword

    Most flats don't have aircon. This isn't New York. Here are some blocks of flats in (chosen at random) in Bournemouth, but it could be any provincial town.

    https://ww3.rics.org/uk/en/journals/built-environment-journal/surveyor-casts-expert-eye-over-flats--fire-risk.html
    https://www.primelocation.com/for-sale/property/bournemouth/christchurch-road/
    https://goadsby.com/property/residential/southbourne/bournemouth/bh6/1086841/

    No aircon.

    Leasehold flats have rules about structural changes (you can't) and that's specified in the leasehold agreement.

    A lot of new build flats have heat pumps built in. It seems hard to retrofit them though above ground floor level, when I looked in to it, it gets very messy trying to find a place to put the external plant as there are access requirements and manufacturers requirements for space around it.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    When you think about it, the fact phones work - or used to work - during a power cut is a pretty clever bit of engineering, although they didn't think of it like that when they invented the system.

    I was in Manhattan in 2003 when there was the great blackout. My mobile phone - a Nokia - continued to be able to call England for about 48 hours, before its battery died. It was quite bizarre: not a light on in the whole city, but I could call home.
    I’ve never quite understood how GPS works if you have no signal or wifi

    I mean, I’ve read explanations and I get them. But it still seems counterintuitive
    There's no need for any kind of data to use GPS. The phone (or watch or whatever) recieves the numbers broadcast by the satellite and uses that to derive its position.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    We will come out of this Ashes series never quite knowing which was the better team

    One of sporting history’s Might Have Beens

    Clearly England have played the more entertaining and aggressive cricket, but is that better?

    YES IT IS

    Winning doesn't matter as long as you play more entertaining cricket?
    Right now? With Test cricket on the edge of oblivion? I would actually say Yes

    Entertainment is more important. And besides, England have come PAINFULLY close to winning this series. Denied by rain at OT, could easily have won at Lord’s or Edgbaston

    If Test cricket has any future, England have shown where it must go. It’s that simple

    100% correct. England may well have saved test cricket. That is a lot more important than winning the Ashes.

    That said, for test cricket to be truly saved, it needs a strong West Indies.

    I reckon Test cricket needs at least 5 competitive and involved sides for it to survive

    England
    Oz
    India

    Can all do it

    But then who?

    South Africa have real cash trouble
    Windies eeek
    Pakistan are good but politics?
    Sri Lanka are too small, likewise NZ

    So it is still in deep trouble. But England have at least shown - or reminded us - that Test cricket at its best can be the most glorious form of the game. AND genuinely exciting from moment to moment

    A necessary but not sufficient step. The cricketing authorities now need to do their best to encourage Bazball - and work out how to avoid draws (especially draws caused by rain FFS)

  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    When you think about it, the fact phones work - or used to work - during a power cut is a pretty clever bit of engineering, although they didn't think of it like that when they invented the system.

    I was in Manhattan in 2003 when there was the great blackout. My mobile phone - a Nokia - continued to be able to call England for about 48 hours, before its battery died. It was quite bizarre: not a light on in the whole city, but I could call home.
    I’ve never quite understood how GPS works if you have no signal or wifi

    I mean, I’ve read explanations and I get them. But it still seems counterintuitive
    Im like that when people say "its digital in it". How does a series of 1s and 0s mean a micro SD card can store 100,000 songs. And how the hell are they made.
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    When you think about it, the fact phones work - or used to work - during a power cut is a pretty clever bit of engineering, although they didn't think of it like that when they invented the system.

    I was in Manhattan in 2003 when there was the great blackout. My mobile phone - a Nokia - continued to be able to call England for about 48 hours, before its battery died. It was quite bizarre: not a light on in the whole city, but I could call home.
    I’ve never quite understood how GPS works if you have no signal or wifi

    I mean, I’ve read explanations and I get them. But it still seems counterintuitive
    It's good news, it means if you have a window seat on a flight you can verify that you are not being MH370ed.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,148
    edited July 2023
    Phil said:

    viewcode said:

    Carnyx said:

    viewcode said:

    Carnyx said:

    viewcode said:

    I've been trying to avoid the miscellaneous upcoming stupid future shit (piped hydrogen, online safety bill, something to do with boilers, all cars must be electric and somebody else's, all roads must be closed, more stupid MP shit that only works if you are rich), but I must confess to ignorance about heat pumps. Can some kind person explain to me what they involve and what degree of compulsion they entail? If I'm going to go full Meldrew it helps to be informed with facts.

    Some stuff for idiots (i. e. me):

    https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/ground-and-air-source-heat-pumps/article/guides

    Re legal stuff, I believe that option A gas boilers are to be phased out so heat pumps are obviously one option B.

    https://www.britishgas.co.uk/the-source/greener-living/gas-boilers-ban-2025.html
    [edit also] https://heatable.co.uk/boiler-advice/are-gas-boilers-being-phased-out

    [edit] but I am sure some expert on PB will advise.
    So a heat pump is an inside-out fridge that runs on electricity and is the size of an old sideboard and a bit bigger than a Wheely bin. For it to work you must be able to run a pipe from inside your house to outside.

    People in flats won't be able to have one.
    Air to ground, no, but what about air to air pump surely?
    How do I move air inside to air outside without going thru the walls (forbidden in leasehold properties) or windows (again difficult)?
    Same way aircon installs do - mini-split heat pumps that pump the working fluid from inside to outside & back again through pipework that passes through reasonably small holes in the walls. Air never passes through the wall, only the heat pump working fluid to the two heat exchangers - one inside & one outside. (Or in some installs, one outside heat exchanger & many small internal ones.)

    If people can manage to get aircon installed in their flats, they can install dual mode aircon that works backwards as a heater. That’s what a heat pump is after all.
    I think I mentioned last year that I have one of these portable dehumidifier - heat pump - air con units that heats and cools, in theory as a tactic for summer heat waves and allowing the GFCH to stay off for an extra few weeks each end. Going from heating to cooling is a matter of swapping pipes around. The unit can be put outside.

    https://www.appliancesdirect.co.uk/p/airflex15w/electriq-airflex15w

    It has an insulated hose that runs through a small window to the conservatory (wooden template in window), of which the door is opened. For me the setup seems to be about right, if Heath-Robinson. Once I've experimented enough I'll fit it to a hole drilled in the wall.

    It seems to work well in heatwaves - cooling the downstairs, or at least the kitchen diner, down by several degrees if switched on from say 8 until 11 or 12. For my setup it runs about 90% off the solar panel electricity (mainly East facing panels). My need is to lop off the really hot bit of the temperature curve in the afternoon, which I find uncomfortable.

    The Smart version can be programmed via an open-source app and wifi, which is great if you remember - I left it running by mistake whilst I was in hospital for three weeks at a couple of hours' notice.

  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    We will come out of this Ashes series never quite knowing which was the better team

    One of sporting history’s Might Have Beens

    Clearly England have played the more entertaining and aggressive cricket, but is that better?

    YES IT IS

    Weird series. England lacked cold clinical ruthlessness (and the ability to catch) when it counted. A case of what might have been.

    Poor selections have cost England. Bairstow's batting may just have made up for the dodgy keeping, but leaving out Woakes for the first two tests was a clear error. Edgbaston is his home ground. I am not sure if Woods was fit to play those games. If he was, though, leaving him out was clearly a mistake too.

    England have played the more enterprising and positive cricket but at times the batting has lacked discipline

    Australia have bowled better than England

    Our fielding has been OK but not brilliant

    Overall Australia have played the more solid cricket and a 2-1 win for them would not be unreasonable

    We shouldn't be too upset. Overall we have played reasonably well, have (probably) lost to the world no 1, there are grounds for optimism

    Not sure we will get a lot out of our next series away in England but it will literally be a good Test
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,652
    It's getting a bit nerve racking now. We are two-tenths of a millimetre off 127mm of rain in Sidmouth for July. The sky is still grey but it's currently dry. If we get there, it will be five inches in old money for the month. That's a lot.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    When you think about it, the fact phones work - or used to work - during a power cut is a pretty clever bit of engineering, although they didn't think of it like that when they invented the system.

    I was in Manhattan in 2003 when there was the great blackout. My mobile phone - a Nokia - continued to be able to call England for about 48 hours, before its battery died. It was quite bizarre: not a light on in the whole city, but I could call home.
    I’ve never quite understood how GPS works if you have no signal or wifi

    I mean, I’ve read explanations and I get them. But it still seems counterintuitive
    Im like that when people say "its digital in it". How does a series of 1s and 0s mean a micro SD card can store 100,000 songs. And how the hell are they made.
    That nice Ms Britney Spears can help you with that:
    http://britneyspears.ac/lasers.htm
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    We will come out of this Ashes series never quite knowing which was the better team

    One of sporting history’s Might Have Beens

    Clearly England have played the more entertaining and aggressive cricket, but is that better?

    YES IT IS

    Weird series. England lacked cold clinical ruthlessness (and the ability to catch) when it counted. A case of what might have been.

    Poor selections have cost England. Bairstow's batting may just have made up for the dodgy keeping, but leaving out Woakes for the first two tests was a clear error. Edgbaston is his home ground. I am not sure if Woods was fit to play those games. If he was, though, leaving him out was clearly a mistake too.

    England have played the more enterprising and positive cricket but at times the batting has lacked discipline

    Australia have bowled better than England

    Our fielding has been OK but not brilliant

    Overall Australia have played the more solid cricket and a 2-1 win for them would not be unreasonable

    We shouldn't be too upset. Overall we have played reasonably well, have (probably) lost to the world no 1, there are grounds for optimism

    Not sure we will get a lot out of our next series away in England but it will literally be a good Test
    Last paragraph: 'away in INDIA'!
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,652
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    We will come out of this Ashes series never quite knowing which was the better team

    One of sporting history’s Might Have Beens

    Clearly England have played the more entertaining and aggressive cricket, but is that better?

    YES IT IS

    Winning doesn't matter as long as you play more entertaining cricket?
    Right now? With Test cricket on the edge of oblivion? I would actually say Yes

    Entertainment is more important. And besides, England have come PAINFULLY close to winning this series. Denied by rain at OT, could easily have won at Lord’s or Edgbaston

    If Test cricket has any future, England have shown where it must go. It’s that simple

    100% correct. England may well have saved test cricket. That is a lot more important than winning the Ashes.

    That said, for test cricket to be truly saved, it needs a strong West Indies.

    I reckon Test cricket needs at least 5 competitive and involved sides for it to survive

    England
    Oz
    India

    Can all do it

    But then who?

    South Africa have real cash trouble
    Windies eeek
    Pakistan are good but politics?
    Sri Lanka are too small, likewise NZ

    So it is still in deep trouble. But England have at least shown - or reminded us - that Test cricket at its best can be the most glorious form of the game. AND genuinely exciting from moment to moment

    A necessary but not sufficient step. The cricketing authorities now need to do their best to encourage Bazball - and work out how to avoid draws (especially draws caused by rain FFS)

    Pay West Indies cricketers to be good at test cricket and they will be. If we really want to save the game, that's where to start. There's enough money floating around to do it. Add them and Pakistan to your three and we're there.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714
    edited July 2023
    This thread has gone to Iowa.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,993
    viewcode said:

    Carnyx said:

    viewcode said:

    Carnyx said:

    viewcode said:

    I've been trying to avoid the miscellaneous upcoming stupid future shit (piped hydrogen, online safety bill, something to do with boilers, all cars must be electric and somebody else's, all roads must be closed, more stupid MP shit that only works if you are rich), but I must confess to ignorance about heat pumps. Can some kind person explain to me what they involve and what degree of compulsion they entail? If I'm going to go full Meldrew it helps to be informed with facts.

    Some stuff for idiots (i. e. me):

    https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/ground-and-air-source-heat-pumps/article/guides

    Re legal stuff, I believe that option A gas boilers are to be phased out so heat pumps are obviously one option B.

    https://www.britishgas.co.uk/the-source/greener-living/gas-boilers-ban-2025.html
    [edit also] https://heatable.co.uk/boiler-advice/are-gas-boilers-being-phased-out

    [edit] but I am sure some expert on PB will advise.
    So a heat pump is an inside-out fridge that runs on electricity and is the size of an old sideboard and a bit bigger than a Wheely bin. For it to work you must be able to run a pipe from inside your house to outside.

    People in flats won't be able to have one.
    Air to ground, no, but what about air to air pump surely?
    How do I move air inside to air outside without going thru the walls (forbidden in leasehold properties) or windows (again difficult)?
    Air to air refers to the outside heat transfer source being the atmosphere rather than ground water in a ground to air system.
    https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/air-source-heat-pumps
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,148
    edited July 2023
    rcs1000 said:

    So, if you spend £100k to totally rebuild your house, strip down the outside walls, fill the cavities, create a giant underground heating system, retrofit all the glazing and loft insulation and you don't mind cold baths, and are fine with wearing several jumpers and dressing gowns when it gets properly cold, then installing a strapping great ASHP can work really well. Otherwise, forget it.

    Glad we cleared that up.

    In New York - where it gets a lot colder than the UK - a lot of apartments are swapping AC units for window hanging ASHPs; admittedly, that's mostly because they are simply so much more efficient* at cooling than traditional AC units.

    * As in cheap from an electrical point of view
    That reminds me of an of an Alistair Cooke Letter from America where he was talking about New York and air conditioning, and the population growth in the Sun Belt since it was invented - via an impromptu 2 hour conversation with the PM of India.

    Script here:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/2Kvl9nKjdbwfBhFYQqwyLs0/christmas-1995-29-december-1995
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,625
    In the latest in corporate DEI propaganda, Costa Coffee is showing prominent depictions of ‘top surgery’:

    image

    https://twitter.com/jamesesses/status/1685973888331567104
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    When you think about it, the fact phones work - or used to work - during a power cut is a pretty clever bit of engineering, although they didn't think of it like that when they invented the system.

    I was in Manhattan in 2003 when there was the great blackout. My mobile phone - a Nokia - continued to be able to call England for about 48 hours, before its battery died. It was quite bizarre: not a light on in the whole city, but I could call home.
    I’ve never quite understood how GPS works if you have no signal or wifi

    I mean, I’ve read explanations and I get them. But it still seems counterintuitive
    Mr Mobile signal comes from the Mr Mobile Phone Mast

    Mr WiFi signal comes from Mr Router. The funny box in the corner of the room

    Mr GPS signal comes from Mr Satellite and Friends in Earth Orbit
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    sarissa said:

    viewcode said:

    Carnyx said:

    viewcode said:

    Carnyx said:

    viewcode said:

    I've been trying to avoid the miscellaneous upcoming stupid future shit (piped hydrogen, online safety bill, something to do with boilers, all cars must be electric and somebody else's, all roads must be closed, more stupid MP shit that only works if you are rich), but I must confess to ignorance about heat pumps. Can some kind person explain to me what they involve and what degree of compulsion they entail? If I'm going to go full Meldrew it helps to be informed with facts.

    Some stuff for idiots (i. e. me):

    https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/ground-and-air-source-heat-pumps/article/guides

    Re legal stuff, I believe that option A gas boilers are to be phased out so heat pumps are obviously one option B.

    https://www.britishgas.co.uk/the-source/greener-living/gas-boilers-ban-2025.html
    [edit also] https://heatable.co.uk/boiler-advice/are-gas-boilers-being-phased-out

    [edit] but I am sure some expert on PB will advise.
    So a heat pump is an inside-out fridge that runs on electricity and is the size of an old sideboard and a bit bigger than a Wheely bin. For it to work you must be able to run a pipe from inside your house to outside.

    People in flats won't be able to have one.
    Air to ground, no, but what about air to air pump surely?
    How do I move air inside to air outside without going thru the walls (forbidden in leasehold properties) or windows (again difficult)?
    Air to air refers to the outside heat transfer source being the atmosphere rather than ground water in a ground to air system.
    https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/air-source-heat-pumps
    You do need power for the external unit and a pipe for the coolant - think garden hose sized.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    edited July 2023
    Selebian said:

    Selebian said:

    kjh said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Put simply: I don't trust those who are pushing air-source heat pumps; they all have an agenda.

    I'm not risking the comfort and wellbeing of my family and a warm home until I go round to a trusted friend or neighbours house (on a cold and dark night) and feel it for myself, including having a hot bath.

    I now have an image in my head of a bloke of a certain age turning up on doorsteps in a frayed shorty terrycloth bathrobe and a towel over his arm, angrily demanding a bath. Not good.

    Who's in the bathroom?
    That angry bloke from next door. He took a picture of the old queen and a cucumber in with him.
    I've just cried myself silly laughing. My wife and dog thought I was having a breakdown.
    To be fair, even I laughed at that one!

    At least @Dura_Ace would offer me a bath, even if not a cucumber.
    Picture of a cucumber and the Queen wasn't it? :innocent:

    Or was there a missing Oxford comma? :open_mouth:
    Not required.

    I always carry a picture of the Queen with me.
    Paging @Anabobazina - we've got another cash user! :wink:
    Cash only at the Fairlop Waters fun fair!




  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 882

    In the latest in corporate DEI propaganda, Costa Coffee is showing prominent depictions of ‘top surgery’:

    image

    https://twitter.com/jamesesses/status/1685973888331567104

    My first instinct was a, perhaps prudish, 'that's a bit much' but now I am mildly fascinated by this. I think partly because a lot of effort goes into trying to reduce post-surgery scarring (both for health and aesthetic reasons) and with future advancements maybe this kind of scarring will be even less visible. This is in image that will be comprehensible in this moment... Or it could end up in a cultural museum some day.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821

    It's getting a bit nerve racking now. We are two-tenths of a millimetre off 127mm of rain in Sidmouth for July. The sky is still grey but it's currently dry. If we get there, it will be five inches in old money for the month. That's a lot.

    Where's yer "global boiling" now? :lol:
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Put simply: I don't trust those who are pushing air-source heat pumps; they all have an agenda.

    I'm not risking the comfort and wellbeing of my family and a warm home until I go round to a trusted friend or neighbours house (on a cold and dark night) and feel it for myself, including having a hot bath.

    That won't be at all weird.
    I find PBers increasingly weird. Like @JosiasJessop running his sweaty marathon right into the local pride March and then deciding to talk to all the gays in Nottingham. Awks

    I begin to wonder if I am the only sane PBer left. And I am a crazy alcoholic
    Why on Earth would that be 'awks' ? What was I supposed to do, ignore the fact it was not going on? Run away at a massive rate of knots for fear that I would somehow become gay, leave my wife and start living with a bearded man called Bernard?

    Besides, chatting to people is interesting, especially when they may have different lifestyles to you.

    And it was only 10K, not a marathon. ;)
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572

    Selebian said:

    Selebian said:

    kjh said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Put simply: I don't trust those who are pushing air-source heat pumps; they all have an agenda.

    I'm not risking the comfort and wellbeing of my family and a warm home until I go round to a trusted friend or neighbours house (on a cold and dark night) and feel it for myself, including having a hot bath.

    I now have an image in my head of a bloke of a certain age turning up on doorsteps in a frayed shorty terrycloth bathrobe and a towel over his arm, angrily demanding a bath. Not good.

    Who's in the bathroom?
    That angry bloke from next door. He took a picture of the old queen and a cucumber in with him.
    I've just cried myself silly laughing. My wife and dog thought I was having a breakdown.
    To be fair, even I laughed at that one!

    At least @Dura_Ace would offer me a bath, even if not a cucumber.
    Picture of a cucumber and the Queen wasn't it? :innocent:

    Or was there a missing Oxford comma? :open_mouth:
    Not required.

    I always carry a picture of the Queen with me.
    Paging @Anabobazina - we've got another cash user! :wink:
    Cash only at the Fairlop Waters fun fair!




    My local Thai restaurant (very good, btw) has a sign saying they prefer cash, as the charges on card payments are many hundreds a month.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368

    Selebian said:

    Selebian said:

    kjh said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Put simply: I don't trust those who are pushing air-source heat pumps; they all have an agenda.

    I'm not risking the comfort and wellbeing of my family and a warm home until I go round to a trusted friend or neighbours house (on a cold and dark night) and feel it for myself, including having a hot bath.

    I now have an image in my head of a bloke of a certain age turning up on doorsteps in a frayed shorty terrycloth bathrobe and a towel over his arm, angrily demanding a bath. Not good.

    Who's in the bathroom?
    That angry bloke from next door. He took a picture of the old queen and a cucumber in with him.
    I've just cried myself silly laughing. My wife and dog thought I was having a breakdown.
    To be fair, even I laughed at that one!

    At least @Dura_Ace would offer me a bath, even if not a cucumber.
    Picture of a cucumber and the Queen wasn't it? :innocent:

    Or was there a missing Oxford comma? :open_mouth:
    Not required.

    I always carry a picture of the Queen with me.
    Paging @Anabobazina - we've got another cash user! :wink:
    Cash only at the Fairlop Waters fun fair!




    My local Thai restaurant (very good, btw) has a sign saying they prefer cash, as the charges on card payments are many hundreds a month.
    They really need to find a new provider for card transactions...
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155

    In the latest in corporate DEI propaganda, Costa Coffee is showing prominent depictions of ‘top surgery’:

    image

    https://twitter.com/jamesesses/status/1685973888331567104

    People outside of the typical exist - recognising this is propaganda somehow.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,521

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Sandpit said:

    glw said:

    viewcode said:

    glw said:

    kyf_100 said:

    "Very keen on turning private transport into something you subscribe to rather than own"

    Such as BMW trying to charge $18 a month for heated seats https://www.theverge.com/2022/7/12/23204950/bmw-subscriptions-microtransactions-heated-seats-feature

    Or having to "jailbreak" your John Deere if you dare to take it to a third party for repair - https://www.wired.com/story/john-deere-tractor-jailbreak-defcon-2022/

    The growing trend towards owning nothing and renting everything is worrying. I now "rent" Microsoft office by the month at a far higher cost than I used to pay for a one off license. (I gave up on Adobe and use freeware alternatives now).

    I noticed Spotify upping the price of their subscription last month, I've been paying them a tenner or whatever it is since the year dot, which must add up to about £1800-ish of payments, yet if I cancel, I own nothing. Not a single single, let alone an album.

    While this has been the case for software as a service for donkey's years and is less than idea, it's even more worrying to see it creep into areas it has no right being in. Like heated seats on your car.

    TaaS/MaaS, Transportation/Mobility as a Service. Yes the people who make cars want to deliver this because they think they will make a lot more money, primarily because it ought to be a better utilisation of a fleet of vehicles that currently spend 95% of their time parked.
    If the assets are used 100% of the time they will wear out a lot faster and when they break they will discomfit a lot more people. Why don't we just tell people to subscribe to one big fluorescent ball in the centre of each village, instead of 100 light bulbs, one for each room.
    Of course. It's not a simple calculation. But the people who believe in this sort of future are confident that they can create a service that will displace the private ownership of cars. They are betting a huge amount of money on it working.
    Well they have tried that over the last few years with PCP financing and that looks like turing into the next PPI scandal.
    There’s loads of funny anecdotes in motoring forums about PCP renewals and interest rates. People who have had a new Mercedes E63 AMG every three years since 2008, now being told that the same repayment gets them into an E220d, and if they want the AMG it’s a grand a month extra!

    Add to the push for electric cars, and the bottom is going to fall out of the market. That guy with the three-year-old E63 is most likely going to refinance to keep it, not buy a new car at all.
    Was always my concern (for the masses, because that's just me).

    eg https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/1500750#Comment_1500750
    Yes, interest rates being zero for a decade and a half has all sorts of funny effects on the economy.

    There’s actually been quite serious price inflation of new cars, but it’s gone un-noticed because no-one writes a check for the list price, but is interested only in the monthly repayment.

    Meanwhile, classic car values have gone the way of property and art, with silly prices now being paid for even some modern but rare cars.

    As we all move to EV appliances, petrol heads are going to be looking at what they want to buy and keep as the weekend toys. Anything remotely interesting is about to start heading up in value.
    At some point we'll reach a tipping point. As demand for petrol falls, petrol stations will start to become nonviable and begin to close down, which will, in turn, make petrol vehicles less desirable, thus leading to more closures - a classic positive feedback effect. At this point, the prices of most petrol vehicles will collapse since they are no longer a practicable means of transport. Though as you point out, there will, of course be exceptions.
    I'm in quite a rural area and there are six fuel stations (that I know about) within an easy distance of less than twenty minutes.

    Demand has a long way to fall before it becomes inconvenient to fill up, though I expect this effect will encourage the most reluctant 10% to make the switch.
    Tha rapid collapse won't happen because as EVs become more common service stations even in rutral areas will introduce more EV charging points along with pumps. This will have the efect of causing a soft landing for petrol and diesel driven by simple usage rather than loss of facility. Remember a lot of these rural petrol stations are small businesses. They will look to adopt and change rather than just stop.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,319
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    We will come out of this Ashes series never quite knowing which was the better team

    One of sporting history’s Might Have Beens

    Clearly England have played the more entertaining and aggressive cricket, but is that better?

    YES IT IS

    Winning doesn't matter as long as you play more entertaining cricket?
    Right now? With Test cricket on the edge of oblivion? I would actually say Yes

    Entertainment is more important. And besides, England have come PAINFULLY close to winning this series. Denied by rain at OT, could easily have won at Lord’s or Edgbaston

    If Test cricket has any future, England have shown where it must go. It’s that simple
    They did come 2nd.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,051
    RobD said:

    So, if you spend £100k to totally rebuild your house, strip down the outside walls, fill the cavities, create a giant underground heating system, retrofit all the glazing and loft insulation and you don't mind cold baths, and are fine with wearing several jumpers and dressing gowns when it gets properly cold, then installing a strapping great ASHP can work really well. Otherwise, forget it.

    Glad we cleared that up.

    Is that what life is really like in the Nordic countries, cold baths and having to wear several jumpers almost all year round?
    I am currently traveling, Denmark, Norway and Sweden. I have had hot showers, and got sunburnt.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Sandpit said:

    glw said:

    viewcode said:

    glw said:

    kyf_100 said:

    "Very keen on turning private transport into something you subscribe to rather than own"

    Such as BMW trying to charge $18 a month for heated seats https://www.theverge.com/2022/7/12/23204950/bmw-subscriptions-microtransactions-heated-seats-feature

    Or having to "jailbreak" your John Deere if you dare to take it to a third party for repair - https://www.wired.com/story/john-deere-tractor-jailbreak-defcon-2022/

    The growing trend towards owning nothing and renting everything is worrying. I now "rent" Microsoft office by the month at a far higher cost than I used to pay for a one off license. (I gave up on Adobe and use freeware alternatives now).

    I noticed Spotify upping the price of their subscription last month, I've been paying them a tenner or whatever it is since the year dot, which must add up to about £1800-ish of payments, yet if I cancel, I own nothing. Not a single single, let alone an album.

    While this has been the case for software as a service for donkey's years and is less than idea, it's even more worrying to see it creep into areas it has no right being in. Like heated seats on your car.

    TaaS/MaaS, Transportation/Mobility as a Service. Yes the people who make cars want to deliver this because they think they will make a lot more money, primarily because it ought to be a better utilisation of a fleet of vehicles that currently spend 95% of their time parked.
    If the assets are used 100% of the time they will wear out a lot faster and when they break they will discomfit a lot more people. Why don't we just tell people to subscribe to one big fluorescent ball in the centre of each village, instead of 100 light bulbs, one for each room.
    Of course. It's not a simple calculation. But the people who believe in this sort of future are confident that they can create a service that will displace the private ownership of cars. They are betting a huge amount of money on it working.
    Well they have tried that over the last few years with PCP financing and that looks like turing into the next PPI scandal.
    There’s loads of funny anecdotes in motoring forums about PCP renewals and interest rates. People who have had a new Mercedes E63 AMG every three years since 2008, now being told that the same repayment gets them into an E220d, and if they want the AMG it’s a grand a month extra!

    Add to the push for electric cars, and the bottom is going to fall out of the market. That guy with the three-year-old E63 is most likely going to refinance to keep it, not buy a new car at all.
    Was always my concern (for the masses, because that's just me).

    eg https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/1500750#Comment_1500750
    Yes, interest rates being zero for a decade and a half has all sorts of funny effects on the economy.

    There’s actually been quite serious price inflation of new cars, but it’s gone un-noticed because no-one writes a check for the list price, but is interested only in the monthly repayment.

    Meanwhile, classic car values have gone the way of property and art, with silly prices now being paid for even some modern but rare cars.

    As we all move to EV appliances, petrol heads are going to be looking at what they want to buy and keep as the weekend toys. Anything remotely interesting is about to start heading up in value.
    At some point we'll reach a tipping point. As demand for petrol falls, petrol stations will start to become nonviable and begin to close down, which will, in turn, make petrol vehicles less desirable, thus leading to more closures - a classic positive feedback effect. At this point, the prices of most petrol vehicles will collapse since they are no longer a practicable means of transport. Though as you point out, there will, of course be exceptions.
    I'm in quite a rural area and there are six fuel stations (that I know about) within an easy distance of less than twenty minutes.

    Demand has a long way to fall before it becomes inconvenient to fill up, though I expect this effect will encourage the most reluctant 10% to make the switch.
    Tha rapid collapse won't happen because as EVs become more common service stations even in rutral areas will introduce more EV charging points along with pumps. This will have the efect of causing a soft landing for petrol and diesel driven by simple usage rather than loss of facility. Remember a lot of these rural petrol stations are small businesses. They will look to adopt and change rather than just stop.
    Towards the end, prices will soar. The margins on selling petrol and diesel for the actual retailers are quite small. As volume drops, they will increase prices to compensate.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,633

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Sandpit said:

    glw said:

    viewcode said:

    glw said:

    kyf_100 said:

    "Very keen on turning private transport into something you subscribe to rather than own"

    Such as BMW trying to charge $18 a month for heated seats https://www.theverge.com/2022/7/12/23204950/bmw-subscriptions-microtransactions-heated-seats-feature

    Or having to "jailbreak" your John Deere if you dare to take it to a third party for repair - https://www.wired.com/story/john-deere-tractor-jailbreak-defcon-2022/

    The growing trend towards owning nothing and renting everything is worrying. I now "rent" Microsoft office by the month at a far higher cost than I used to pay for a one off license. (I gave up on Adobe and use freeware alternatives now).

    I noticed Spotify upping the price of their subscription last month, I've been paying them a tenner or whatever it is since the year dot, which must add up to about £1800-ish of payments, yet if I cancel, I own nothing. Not a single single, let alone an album.

    While this has been the case for software as a service for donkey's years and is less than idea, it's even more worrying to see it creep into areas it has no right being in. Like heated seats on your car.

    TaaS/MaaS, Transportation/Mobility as a Service. Yes the people who make cars want to deliver this because they think they will make a lot more money, primarily because it ought to be a better utilisation of a fleet of vehicles that currently spend 95% of their time parked.
    If the assets are used 100% of the time they will wear out a lot faster and when they break they will discomfit a lot more people. Why don't we just tell people to subscribe to one big fluorescent ball in the centre of each village, instead of 100 light bulbs, one for each room.
    Of course. It's not a simple calculation. But the people who believe in this sort of future are confident that they can create a service that will displace the private ownership of cars. They are betting a huge amount of money on it working.
    Well they have tried that over the last few years with PCP financing and that looks like turing into the next PPI scandal.
    There’s loads of funny anecdotes in motoring forums about PCP renewals and interest rates. People who have had a new Mercedes E63 AMG every three years since 2008, now being told that the same repayment gets them into an E220d, and if they want the AMG it’s a grand a month extra!

    Add to the push for electric cars, and the bottom is going to fall out of the market. That guy with the three-year-old E63 is most likely going to refinance to keep it, not buy a new car at all.
    Was always my concern (for the masses, because that's just me).

    eg https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/1500750#Comment_1500750
    Yes, interest rates being zero for a decade and a half has all sorts of funny effects on the economy.

    There’s actually been quite serious price inflation of new cars, but it’s gone un-noticed because no-one writes a check for the list price, but is interested only in the monthly repayment.

    Meanwhile, classic car values have gone the way of property and art, with silly prices now being paid for even some modern but rare cars.

    As we all move to EV appliances, petrol heads are going to be looking at what they want to buy and keep as the weekend toys. Anything remotely interesting is about to start heading up in value.
    At some point we'll reach a tipping point. As demand for petrol falls, petrol stations will start to become nonviable and begin to close down, which will, in turn, make petrol vehicles less desirable, thus leading to more closures - a classic positive feedback effect. At this point, the prices of most petrol vehicles will collapse since they are no longer a practicable means of transport. Though as you point out, there will, of course be exceptions.
    I'm in quite a rural area and there are six fuel stations (that I know about) within an easy distance of less than twenty minutes.

    Demand has a long way to fall before it becomes inconvenient to fill up, though I expect this effect will encourage the most reluctant 10% to make the switch.
    Tha rapid collapse won't happen because as EVs become more common service stations even in rutral areas will introduce more EV charging points along with pumps. This will have the efect of causing a soft landing for petrol and diesel driven by simple usage rather than loss of facility. Remember a lot of these rural petrol stations are small businesses. They will look to adopt and change rather than just stop.
    In rural areas people will charge at home, it is flats and terraced houses in the city that will require public chargers
This discussion has been closed.