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The betting continues on the by-election that might not happen – politicalbetting.com

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  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 17,445

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Sandpit said:

    glw said:

    viewcode said:

    glw said:

    kyf_100 said:

    "Very keen on turning private transport into something you subscribe to rather than own"

    Such as BMW trying to charge $18 a month for heated seats https://www.theverge.com/2022/7/12/23204950/bmw-subscriptions-microtransactions-heated-seats-feature

    Or having to "jailbreak" your John Deere if you dare to take it to a third party for repair - https://www.wired.com/story/john-deere-tractor-jailbreak-defcon-2022/

    The growing trend towards owning nothing and renting everything is worrying. I now "rent" Microsoft office by the month at a far higher cost than I used to pay for a one off license. (I gave up on Adobe and use freeware alternatives now).

    I noticed Spotify upping the price of their subscription last month, I've been paying them a tenner or whatever it is since the year dot, which must add up to about £1800-ish of payments, yet if I cancel, I own nothing. Not a single single, let alone an album.

    While this has been the case for software as a service for donkey's years and is less than idea, it's even more worrying to see it creep into areas it has no right being in. Like heated seats on your car.

    TaaS/MaaS, Transportation/Mobility as a Service. Yes the people who make cars want to deliver this because they think they will make a lot more money, primarily because it ought to be a better utilisation of a fleet of vehicles that currently spend 95% of their time parked.
    If the assets are used 100% of the time they will wear out a lot faster and when they break they will discomfit a lot more people. Why don't we just tell people to subscribe to one big fluorescent ball in the centre of each village, instead of 100 light bulbs, one for each room.
    Of course. It's not a simple calculation. But the people who believe in this sort of future are confident that they can create a service that will displace the private ownership of cars. They are betting a huge amount of money on it working.
    Well they have tried that over the last few years with PCP financing and that looks like turing into the next PPI scandal.
    There’s loads of funny anecdotes in motoring forums about PCP renewals and interest rates. People who have had a new Mercedes E63 AMG every three years since 2008, now being told that the same repayment gets them into an E220d, and if they want the AMG it’s a grand a month extra!

    Add to the push for electric cars, and the bottom is going to fall out of the market. That guy with the three-year-old E63 is most likely going to refinance to keep it, not buy a new car at all.
    Was always my concern (for the masses, because that's just me).

    eg https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/1500750#Comment_1500750
    Yes, interest rates being zero for a decade and a half has all sorts of funny effects on the economy.

    There’s actually been quite serious price inflation of new cars, but it’s gone un-noticed because no-one writes a check for the list price, but is interested only in the monthly repayment.

    Meanwhile, classic car values have gone the way of property and art, with silly prices now being paid for even some modern but rare cars.

    As we all move to EV appliances, petrol heads are going to be looking at what they want to buy and keep as the weekend toys. Anything remotely interesting is about to start heading up in value.
    At some point we'll reach a tipping point. As demand for petrol falls, petrol stations will start to become nonviable and begin to close down, which will, in turn, make petrol vehicles less desirable, thus leading to more closures - a classic positive feedback effect. At this point, the prices of most petrol vehicles will collapse since they are no longer a practicable means of transport. Though as you point out, there will, of course be exceptions.
    I'm in quite a rural area and there are six fuel stations (that I know about) within an easy distance of less than twenty minutes.

    Demand has a long way to fall before it becomes inconvenient to fill up, though I expect this effect will encourage the most reluctant 10% to make the switch.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,139
    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    TOPPING said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Mortimer said:

    Slightly tongue in cheek, but the strongest correlating indicator of Conservative voting that I have ever found in 20 years of canvassing is car related.

    - Those washing their car in their driveway on a Saturday morning.

    Slightly disconcertingly for the blue meanies, apart from my Dad, I don't know anyone who does this now. Why bother when its a tenner at the local hand car wash?

    The gangs of trafficked Kurdish vagabonds don't even use the 'Two Bucket' system which is the absolute minimum for not fucking your clear coat. One session at one of these refugee camps and it's done for.

    Correcting a fucked clear coat, if it's not too far gone, is a lot of work and you're knocking a couple of grand off the value at least. Unless you can offload it onto to some mug who can't judge the fuckedness state of clear coats.
    I wonder what a clear coat is. I mostly just rely on rain to wash off my 2015 Fiesta. I never give my car a thought except when I'm actually in it or the MoT demand comes round.

    PB is a useful reminder that there are a multitude of different ways to live...
    For me, a car is simply a tool that allows me to do what I need/want to do. If I could do the things I wanted to do without a car, I'd not have one. I find no great joy in driving; the joy can come from what I do at the destination.

    I also don't see my car as an extension of my psyche, or a reflection of who I am. It's a car.
    And that is, I think, the heart of the matter. Once a car is a means to an end, then it's possible that there are other ways of achieving the same ends better. In fact, it's possible that car use gets in the way of achieving those ends.
    The car is an interesting machine. It promises individual freedom, but relies on infrastructure that is provided collectively. It provides convenience for its owner but inconveniences others. It allows us to be ourselves but cuts us off from other people. It lets us do more but makes us less active. It opens up choices for some and restricts choices for others.
    Politically it's interesting because of all the things we do on a day to day basis it probably imposes more negative externalities, global and local, than anything else. Increasingly I think the political left-right divide comes down to whether you take the idea of these externalities seriously or not. The right can get a lot of mileage out of telling their voters that they can do what they want and any negative effects on other people are unimportant. The danger for the left is that they overestimate the extent to which people are willing, or feel able to afford, to care.
    I think the Cons are absolutely right to pick a fight over car ownership because most of us have one and many of us realise the impracticalities of acting too quickly to dispossess us of them, or penalising ownership which the ULEZ has shown so clearly.

    It is the one area (and I can't for the life of me think of any other) where actually the Cons might be able to claw some votes back and it seems that Lab are handing these to them on a plate.
    Heat Punps

    Disaster waiting to happen.
    They sound bloody awful.
    Good ideas in a well insulated or well restored house.

    Get a correct type, and you can run it backwards in summer off your solar to cool the house.

    Air to air heatpumps are well-spoken of as a simple solution amongst those I know, and don't necessarily need much central control.

    Personally, I am probably going for an air-to-water heatpump when the current boiler dies, since my radiators etc are designed for it and need no swaps.

    Modern heat pumps seem to be OK to a few degrees above freezing, but it is probably important to have cut your peak heat demand by about 50-70% first by a good fabric upgrade.
    The problem is your final paragraph, which will be difficult and expensive with older properties, and what you do to heat the house when the air temperature outside plummets to -5C or below.
    You're right on your first point but it can be done. We renovated a 1960 bungalow. We filled the cavity, put 100mm of insulation on the outside of the walls and rendered over, put in an insulated floor with underfloor heating, installed triple glazed windows and a mechanical heat recovery ventilation system (so no drafts).

    It was of course a major undertaking (although we did live in the house throughout). It has easily paid for itself in terms of house value although we did buy the house at auction as a 'needs total renovation' job.

    Regarding the " what you do to heat the house when the air temperature outside plummets to -5C or below" question - we have never had a problem, it just works.
    I sort of understand mostd of that, but how does the heated floor work, without the whole hypocaust and slave in loincloth business?
    I'm not sure @Benpointer said he'd paid for that.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,574
    edited July 2023
    Carnyx said:

    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Peck said:

    Those who go all-electric in their homes as they park their electric vehicles on their driveways are so touchingly trusting in the continued supply of mains electricity. Nothing like Venezuela (or what seems about to happen in Argentina) could possibly happen in Blighty. No bank problems, wars, culls, upheavals. Just a furry slipper stroking a human face - forever.

    Until just now we've had a landline phone network that works even if there's a power cut. In the future it won't work if there's one. Same sort of thing.
    Time to get a mobile phone, perhaps? ;)
    Which needs to be charged ... seriously, many people feel much happier with both systems esp if they are elderly or have elderly relatives. You may not think so, but it is a thing.
    If you live remotely and are worried about this sort of thing there are ways to mitigate that risk. For example, keeping one always charged, using a solar charger, or even a small generator. Better to be pro-active about it rather than just complain about the fact PSTN will be turned off in a few years.
    If one lives remotely one would already be taking those precautions, anyway.

    On the wider issue - it's a small but significant deterioration for many who can't easily cope with mobiles.

    Have you never seen the sort of landline phone that people with poor sight, for instance, need to use?
    Yes, I sometimes use one in fact (a BT big button). While you can't make mobiles that big, you can get ones designed with visually impaired people in mind. Designing a dock with a big button interface, powered by the phone itself, should not be beyond the wit of humanity either.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,750
    More radical free speech in X action.

    Twitter Threatens Legal Action Against Nonprofit That Tracks Hate Speech

    The Center for Countering Digital Hate said it had received a letter from X, Twitter’s parent company, accusing it of trying to hurt the social platform with its research.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/31/technology/twitter-x-center-for-countering-digital-hate.html
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Put simply: I don't trust those who are pushing air-source heat pumps; they all have an agenda.

    I'm not risking the comfort and wellbeing of my family and a warm home until I go round to a trusted friend or neighbours house (on a cold and dark night) and feel it for myself, including having a hot bath.

    I now have an image in my head of a bloke of a certain age turning up on doorsteps in a frayed shorty terrycloth bathrobe and a towel over his arm, angrily demanding a bath. Not good.

    Who's in the bathroom?
    That angry bloke from next door. He took a picture of the old queen and a cucumber in with him.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,139
    So, if you spend £100k to totally rebuild your house, strip down the outside walls, fill the cavities, create a giant underground heating system, retrofit all the glazing and loft insulation and you don't mind cold baths, and are fine with wearing several jumpers and dressing gowns when it gets properly cold, then installing a strapping great ASHP can work really well. Otherwise, forget it.

    Glad we cleared that up.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,574

    So, if you spend £100k to totally rebuild your house, strip down the outside walls, fill the cavities, create a giant underground heating system, retrofit all the glazing and loft insulation and you don't mind cold baths, and are fine with wearing several jumpers and dressing gowns when it gets properly cold, then installing a strapping great ASHP can work really well. Otherwise, forget it.

    Glad we cleared that up.

    Is that what life is really like in the Nordic countries, cold baths and having to wear several jumpers almost all year round?
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    Nigelb said:

    More radical free speech in X action.

    Twitter Threatens Legal Action Against Nonprofit That Tracks Hate Speech

    The Center for Countering Digital Hate said it had received a letter from X, Twitter’s parent company, accusing it of trying to hurt the social platform with its research.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/31/technology/twitter-x-center-for-countering-digital-hate.html

    Does Musk enjoy setting piles of money on fire and pissing off lawyers and judges?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,240

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Put simply: I don't trust those who are pushing air-source heat pumps; they all have an agenda.

    I'm not risking the comfort and wellbeing of my family and a warm home until I go round to a trusted friend or neighbours house (on a cold and dark night) and feel it for myself, including having a hot bath.

    That won't be at all weird.
    I find PBers increasingly weird. Like @JosiasJessop running his sweaty marathon right into the local pride March and then deciding to talk to all the gays in Nottingham. Awks

    I begin to wonder if I am the only sane PBer left. And I am a crazy alcoholic
    It's not weird to travel to the safest part of a country at war, spend all your time whilst there posting on here, and then throw a paddy when no-one gives you attention for taking your takeaway spritzer into the Anderson shelter whilst virtually nothing happens overhead?

    Bit weird.
    Well I did say that I’m a crazy alcoholic. Hence me drinking here in the “safest part of a war zone”

    And yet none of that is as weird as you going round to your neighbour’s house and demanding a hot bath so you can “test the efficacy of their air-source heat pumps”

    If I was your neighbour I’d move away soon after
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,544
    kjh said:

    Put simply: I don't trust those who are pushing air-source heat pumps; they all have an agenda.

    I'm not risking the comfort and wellbeing of my family and a warm home until I go round to a trusted friend or neighbours house (on a cold and dark night) and feel it for myself, including having a hot bath.

    I love the idea of going to a friend or neighbour's house to have a hot bath. Never done that. Must try it.
    Ideally you should ask them to get in with you.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,750
    edited July 2023
    148grss said:

    Nigelb said:

    More radical free speech in X action.

    Twitter Threatens Legal Action Against Nonprofit That Tracks Hate Speech

    The Center for Countering Digital Hate said it had received a letter from X, Twitter’s parent company, accusing it of trying to hurt the social platform with its research.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/31/technology/twitter-x-center-for-countering-digital-hate.html

    Does Musk enjoy setting piles of money on fire and pissing off lawyers and judges?
    Apparently so.

    Note discovery will give the defendants access to all the data he's been denying them.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    I never though air source heat pumps would be the Artyomovsk/Bakhmut of the culture wars. Yet here we are. #classic2023
  • StockyStocky Posts: 9,997
    TOPPING said:

    Anyway I have now finished both Succession and A Little Life so can relax when people discuss "popular culture".

    Spoil away.

    I assume you are going to tell me to persevere with Succession then? I'm half way through the first series and it hasn't grabbed me yet.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,507
    RobD said:

    So, if you spend £100k to totally rebuild your house, strip down the outside walls, fill the cavities, create a giant underground heating system, retrofit all the glazing and loft insulation and you don't mind cold baths, and are fine with wearing several jumpers and dressing gowns when it gets properly cold, then installing a strapping great ASHP can work really well. Otherwise, forget it.

    Glad we cleared that up.

    Is that what life is really like in the Nordic countries, cold baths and having to wear several jumpers almost all year round?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJLqyuxm96k
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,750
    At the risk of setting things off again...

    Amsterdam’s plan to remove 11,200 parking spaces from its streets by the end of 2025 is even more inspiring when we realize the kind of people-places that are possible where cars used to be. Example — #Amsterdam’s Elandsgracht between 2014 & 2019, via @schlijper’s great pics.
    https://twitter.com/BrentToderian/status/1685732963588476928
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,240
    I’m getting quite “Jolyon Maugham in a kimono smashing a fox to death with a baseball bat on Boxing Day” vibes from @Casino_Royale today

    Perhaps it is just Too Much Politics
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,139
    Dura_Ace said:

    Put simply: I don't trust those who are pushing air-source heat pumps; they all have an agenda.

    I'm not risking the comfort and wellbeing of my family and a warm home until I go round to a trusted friend or neighbours house (on a cold and dark night) and feel it for myself, including having a hot bath.

    That won't be at all weird.
    You've got a spare bedroom, haven't you?

    You could brush up on your diphthongs and DE&S acronym greatest hits, strip off the lycra, and get in with me whilst furiously beating yourself with a courgette and ranting at me about how much you despise Tories and women.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,368
    Leon said:

    I’m getting quite “Jolyon Maugham in a kimono smashing a fox to death with a baseball bat on Boxing Day” vibes from @Casino_Royale today

    Perhaps it is just Too Much Politics

    It’s a beautiful midsummer’s day. The sun is shining, joy abounds.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,454
    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Peck said:

    Those who go all-electric in their homes as they park their electric vehicles on their driveways are so touchingly trusting in the continued supply of mains electricity. Nothing like Venezuela (or what seems about to happen in Argentina) could possibly happen in Blighty. No bank problems, wars, culls, upheavals. Just a furry slipper stroking a human face - forever.

    Until just now we've had a landline phone network that works even if there's a power cut. In the future it won't work if there's one. Same sort of thing.
    Time to get a mobile phone, perhaps? ;)
    Which needs to be charged ... seriously, many people feel much happier with both systems esp if they are elderly or have elderly relatives. You may not think so, but it is a thing.
    If you live remotely and are worried about this sort of thing there are ways to mitigate that risk. For example, keeping one always charged, using a solar charger, or even a small generator. Better to be pro-active about it rather than just complain about the fact PSTN will be turned off in a few years.
    If one lives remotely one would already be taking those precautions, anyway.

    On the wider issue - it's a small but significant deterioration for many who can't easily cope with mobiles.

    Have you never seen the sort of landline phone that people with poor sight, for instance, need to use?
    Yes, I sometimes use one in fact (a BT big button). While you can't make mobiles that big, you can get ones designed with visually impaired people in mind. Designing a dock with a big button interface, powered by the phone itself, should not be beyond the wit of humanity either.
    More money, more complexity, more unfamiliar tech, more subs to pay, more kit ... some of which doesn't exist yet, presumably.

    Ever tried diagnosing an elderly parents' Iphone problems remotely when the bloody thing has handshaken automatically to a new ipad which was set by a young relative to something else? Having the landline was a lifesaver - uncomfortably close to being so in actuality if anythign had gone amiss.

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,507
    Stocky said:

    TOPPING said:

    Anyway I have now finished both Succession and A Little Life so can relax when people discuss "popular culture".

    Spoil away.

    I assume you are going to tell me to persevere with Succession then? I'm half way through the first series and it hasn't grabbed me yet.
    Yes do. The performances are outstanding if the narrative a bit winding.
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    edited July 2023
    Nigelb said:

    148grss said:

    Nigelb said:

    More radical free speech in X action.

    Twitter Threatens Legal Action Against Nonprofit That Tracks Hate Speech

    The Center for Countering Digital Hate said it had received a letter from X, Twitter’s parent company, accusing it of trying to hurt the social platform with its research.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/31/technology/twitter-x-center-for-countering-digital-hate.html

    Does Musk enjoy setting piles of money on fire and pissing off lawyers and judges?
    Apparently so.

    Note discovery will give the defendants access to all the data he's been denying them.
    If in discovery there is any sense that anyone in X knew that changes would indirectly or directly, purposefully or as a biproduct, increase hate speech Musk will be adding self immolation to his new hobbies since buying Twitter.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,574
    Carnyx said:

    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Peck said:

    Those who go all-electric in their homes as they park their electric vehicles on their driveways are so touchingly trusting in the continued supply of mains electricity. Nothing like Venezuela (or what seems about to happen in Argentina) could possibly happen in Blighty. No bank problems, wars, culls, upheavals. Just a furry slipper stroking a human face - forever.

    Until just now we've had a landline phone network that works even if there's a power cut. In the future it won't work if there's one. Same sort of thing.
    Time to get a mobile phone, perhaps? ;)
    Which needs to be charged ... seriously, many people feel much happier with both systems esp if they are elderly or have elderly relatives. You may not think so, but it is a thing.
    If you live remotely and are worried about this sort of thing there are ways to mitigate that risk. For example, keeping one always charged, using a solar charger, or even a small generator. Better to be pro-active about it rather than just complain about the fact PSTN will be turned off in a few years.
    If one lives remotely one would already be taking those precautions, anyway.

    On the wider issue - it's a small but significant deterioration for many who can't easily cope with mobiles.

    Have you never seen the sort of landline phone that people with poor sight, for instance, need to use?
    Yes, I sometimes use one in fact (a BT big button). While you can't make mobiles that big, you can get ones designed with visually impaired people in mind. Designing a dock with a big button interface, powered by the phone itself, should not be beyond the wit of humanity either.
    More money, more complexity, more unfamiliar tech, more subs to pay, more kit ... some of which doesn't exist yet, presumably.

    Ever tried diagnosing an elderly parents' Iphone problems remotely when the bloody thing has handshaken automatically to a new ipad which was set by a young relative to something else? Having the landline was a lifesaver - uncomfortably close to being so in actuality if anythign had gone amiss.

    "more money, more complexity..." The same arguments were probably used when the phone line was first installed.

    I'm not suggesting they get an iPhone or iPad. You can get more conventional looking mobile phones with large numpads.

    Anyway, I guess my point is that they aren't going to keep the PSTN around for much longer, so it is best to start preparing for it.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,454
    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Put simply: I don't trust those who are pushing air-source heat pumps; they all have an agenda.

    I'm not risking the comfort and wellbeing of my family and a warm home until I go round to a trusted friend or neighbours house (on a cold and dark night) and feel it for myself, including having a hot bath.

    That won't be at all weird.
    I find PBers increasingly weird. Like @JosiasJessop running his sweaty marathon right into the local pride March and then deciding to talk to all the gays in Nottingham. Awks

    I begin to wonder if I am the only sane PBer left. And I am a crazy alcoholic
    It's not weird to travel to the safest part of a country at war, spend all your time whilst there posting on here, and then throw a paddy when no-one gives you attention for taking your takeaway spritzer into the Anderson shelter whilst virtually nothing happens overhead?

    Bit weird.
    Well I did say that I’m a crazy alcoholic. Hence me drinking here in the “safest part of a war zone”

    And yet none of that is as weird as you going round to your neighbour’s house and demanding a hot bath so you can “test the efficacy of their air-source heat pumps”

    If I was your neighbour I’d move away soon after
    Mrs DA just asked what I was laughing at. I thought about explaining but lied and said it was a cat on TikTok. She'd never understand what we have.
    Dangerous. She might have wanted to see the moggy. Pussy movies are catnip for many females.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,750
    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    I’m getting quite “Jolyon Maugham in a kimono smashing a fox to death with a baseball bat on Boxing Day” vibes from @Casino_Royale today

    Perhaps it is just Too Much Politics

    It’s a beautiful midsummer’s day. The sun is shining, joy abounds.
    It's pissing down here.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,240
    edited July 2023
    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Put simply: I don't trust those who are pushing air-source heat pumps; they all have an agenda.

    I'm not risking the comfort and wellbeing of my family and a warm home until I go round to a trusted friend or neighbours house (on a cold and dark night) and feel it for myself, including having a hot bath.

    That won't be at all weird.
    I find PBers increasingly weird. Like @JosiasJessop running his sweaty marathon right into the local pride March and then deciding to talk to all the gays in Nottingham. Awks

    I begin to wonder if I am the only sane PBer left. And I am a crazy alcoholic
    It's not weird to travel to the safest part of a country at war, spend all your time whilst there posting on here, and then throw a paddy when no-one gives you attention for taking your takeaway spritzer into the Anderson shelter whilst virtually nothing happens overhead?

    Bit weird.
    Well I did say that I’m a crazy alcoholic. Hence me drinking here in the “safest part of a war zone”

    And yet none of that is as weird as you going round to your neighbour’s house and demanding a hot bath so you can “test the efficacy of their air-source heat pumps”

    If I was your neighbour I’d move away soon after
    Mrs DA just asked what I was laughing at. I thought about explaining but lied and said it was a cat on TikTok. She'd never understand what we have.
    PB is simultaneously a sad halfway house for quasi-lunatics barely able to function in the real world, and the best pub on the planet

    Edited to add: I definitely include myself in the first category
  • StockyStocky Posts: 9,997

    Dura_Ace said:

    Put simply: I don't trust those who are pushing air-source heat pumps; they all have an agenda.

    I'm not risking the comfort and wellbeing of my family and a warm home until I go round to a trusted friend or neighbours house (on a cold and dark night) and feel it for myself, including having a hot bath.

    That won't be at all weird.
    You've got a spare bedroom, haven't you?

    You could brush up on your diphthongs and DE&S acronym greatest hits, strip off the lycra, and get in with me whilst furiously beating yourself with a courgette and ranting at me about how much you despise Tories and women.
    And I thought it couldn't get any weirder on here today.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,053
    Carnyx said:

    viewcode said:

    Carnyx said:

    viewcode said:

    I've been trying to avoid the miscellaneous upcoming stupid future shit (piped hydrogen, online safety bill, something to do with boilers, all cars must be electric and somebody else's, all roads must be closed, more stupid MP shit that only works if you are rich), but I must confess to ignorance about heat pumps. Can some kind person explain to me what they involve and what degree of compulsion they entail? If I'm going to go full Meldrew it helps to be informed with facts.

    Some stuff for idiots (i. e. me):

    https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/ground-and-air-source-heat-pumps/article/guides

    Re legal stuff, I believe that option A gas boilers are to be phased out so heat pumps are obviously one option B.

    https://www.britishgas.co.uk/the-source/greener-living/gas-boilers-ban-2025.html
    [edit also] https://heatable.co.uk/boiler-advice/are-gas-boilers-being-phased-out

    [edit] but I am sure some expert on PB will advise.
    So a heat pump is an inside-out fridge that runs on electricity and is the size of an old sideboard and a bit bigger than a Wheely bin. For it to work you must be able to run a pipe from inside your house to outside.

    People in flats won't be able to have one.
    Air to ground, no, but what about air to air pump surely?
    How do I move air inside to air outside without going thru the walls (forbidden in leasehold properties) or windows (again difficult)?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,507
    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Put simply: I don't trust those who are pushing air-source heat pumps; they all have an agenda.

    I'm not risking the comfort and wellbeing of my family and a warm home until I go round to a trusted friend or neighbours house (on a cold and dark night) and feel it for myself, including having a hot bath.

    That won't be at all weird.
    I find PBers increasingly weird. Like @JosiasJessop running his sweaty marathon right into the local pride March and then deciding to talk to all the gays in Nottingham. Awks

    I begin to wonder if I am the only sane PBer left. And I am a crazy alcoholic
    It's not weird to travel to the safest part of a country at war, spend all your time whilst there posting on here, and then throw a paddy when no-one gives you attention for taking your takeaway spritzer into the Anderson shelter whilst virtually nothing happens overhead?

    Bit weird.
    Well I did say that I’m a crazy alcoholic. Hence me drinking here in the “safest part of a war zone”

    And yet none of that is as weird as you going round to your neighbour’s house and demanding a hot bath so you can “test the efficacy of their air-source heat pumps”

    If I was your neighbour I’d move away soon after
    Mrs DA just asked what I was laughing at. I thought about explaining but lied and said it was a cat on TikTok. She'd never understand what we have.
    PB is simultaneously a sad halfway house for quasi-lunatics barely able to function in the real world, and the best pub in the world
    I find it very much like giving birth.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,139
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Put simply: I don't trust those who are pushing air-source heat pumps; they all have an agenda.

    I'm not risking the comfort and wellbeing of my family and a warm home until I go round to a trusted friend or neighbours house (on a cold and dark night) and feel it for myself, including having a hot bath.

    That won't be at all weird.
    I find PBers increasingly weird. Like @JosiasJessop running his sweaty marathon right into the local pride March and then deciding to talk to all the gays in Nottingham. Awks

    I begin to wonder if I am the only sane PBer left. And I am a crazy alcoholic
    It's not weird to travel to the safest part of a country at war, spend all your time whilst there posting on here, and then throw a paddy when no-one gives you attention for taking your takeaway spritzer into the Anderson shelter whilst virtually nothing happens overhead?

    Bit weird.
    Well I did say that I’m a crazy alcoholic. Hence me drinking here in the “safest part of a war zone”

    And yet none of that is as weird as you going round to your neighbour’s house and demanding a hot bath so you can “test the efficacy of their air-source heat pumps”

    If I was your neighbour I’d move away soon after
    It's only weird because you're a Londoner who would look aghast at the idea of getting to know your neighbours or even having friends?

    Same problem you're having here as to why you're an Uber bore.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,368
    Nigelb said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    I’m getting quite “Jolyon Maugham in a kimono smashing a fox to death with a baseball bat on Boxing Day” vibes from @Casino_Royale today

    Perhaps it is just Too Much Politics

    It’s a beautiful midsummer’s day. The sun is shining, joy abounds.
    It's pissing down here.
    Sarcasm. Heavy sarcasm.


  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,454
    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Peck said:

    Those who go all-electric in their homes as they park their electric vehicles on their driveways are so touchingly trusting in the continued supply of mains electricity. Nothing like Venezuela (or what seems about to happen in Argentina) could possibly happen in Blighty. No bank problems, wars, culls, upheavals. Just a furry slipper stroking a human face - forever.

    Until just now we've had a landline phone network that works even if there's a power cut. In the future it won't work if there's one. Same sort of thing.
    Time to get a mobile phone, perhaps? ;)
    Which needs to be charged ... seriously, many people feel much happier with both systems esp if they are elderly or have elderly relatives. You may not think so, but it is a thing.
    If you live remotely and are worried about this sort of thing there are ways to mitigate that risk. For example, keeping one always charged, using a solar charger, or even a small generator. Better to be pro-active about it rather than just complain about the fact PSTN will be turned off in a few years.
    If one lives remotely one would already be taking those precautions, anyway.

    On the wider issue - it's a small but significant deterioration for many who can't easily cope with mobiles.

    Have you never seen the sort of landline phone that people with poor sight, for instance, need to use?
    Yes, I sometimes use one in fact (a BT big button). While you can't make mobiles that big, you can get ones designed with visually impaired people in mind. Designing a dock with a big button interface, powered by the phone itself, should not be beyond the wit of humanity either.
    More money, more complexity, more unfamiliar tech, more subs to pay, more kit ... some of which doesn't exist yet, presumably.

    Ever tried diagnosing an elderly parents' Iphone problems remotely when the bloody thing has handshaken automatically to a new ipad which was set by a young relative to something else? Having the landline was a lifesaver - uncomfortably close to being so in actuality if anythign had gone amiss.

    "more money, more complexity..." The same arguments were probably used when the phone line was first installed.

    I'm not suggesting they get an iPhone or iPad. You can get more conventional looking mobile phones with large numpads.

    Anyway, I guess my point is that they aren't going to keep the PSTN around for much longer, so it is best to start preparing for it.
    The Iphone was just an example of the tech complexity compared to the desktop handset, and what can go wrong with the mobiles.

    No, I think not, on reflection. The phone was de novo. Clear difference from e.g. sending a lad round with a chit. This is a significant and detrimental change in what is otherwise basically the same sort of thing. Those with landlines temd to keep them for a reason, whatever BT might whine about it.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,139
    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    I’m getting quite “Jolyon Maugham in a kimono smashing a fox to death with a baseball bat on Boxing Day” vibes from @Casino_Royale today

    Perhaps it is just Too Much Politics

    It’s a beautiful midsummer’s day. The sun is shining, joy abounds.
    To be fair, I'm actually on holiday and having quite a bit of fun on here today.

    Normally, I wouldn't have any time to post during the working week - so making the most of it whilst I still can.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,314
    148grss said:

    Nigelb said:

    148grss said:

    Nigelb said:

    More radical free speech in X action.

    Twitter Threatens Legal Action Against Nonprofit That Tracks Hate Speech

    The Center for Countering Digital Hate said it had received a letter from X, Twitter’s parent company, accusing it of trying to hurt the social platform with its research.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/31/technology/twitter-x-center-for-countering-digital-hate.html

    Does Musk enjoy setting piles of money on fire and pissing off lawyers and judges?
    Apparently so.

    Note discovery will give the defendants access to all the data he's been denying them.
    If in discovery there is any sense that anyone in X knew that changes would indirectly or directly, purposefully or as a biproduct, increase hate speech Musk will be adding self immolation to his new hobbies since buying Twitter.
    That particular campaign group, does appear to have a rather narrow definition of “hate speech”.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_for_Countering_Digital_Hate
  • StockyStocky Posts: 9,997
    I don't know anything about heat pumps other than what I've heard from others who don't like them: that they are ugly, large, noisy and generate insufficient power to adequately heat a home or a bath.

    No idea whether this is correct.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,240

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Put simply: I don't trust those who are pushing air-source heat pumps; they all have an agenda.

    I'm not risking the comfort and wellbeing of my family and a warm home until I go round to a trusted friend or neighbours house (on a cold and dark night) and feel it for myself, including having a hot bath.

    That won't be at all weird.
    I find PBers increasingly weird. Like @JosiasJessop running his sweaty marathon right into the local pride March and then deciding to talk to all the gays in Nottingham. Awks

    I begin to wonder if I am the only sane PBer left. And I am a crazy alcoholic
    It's not weird to travel to the safest part of a country at war, spend all your time whilst there posting on here, and then throw a paddy when no-one gives you attention for taking your takeaway spritzer into the Anderson shelter whilst virtually nothing happens overhead?

    Bit weird.
    Well I did say that I’m a crazy alcoholic. Hence me drinking here in the “safest part of a war zone”

    And yet none of that is as weird as you going round to your neighbour’s house and demanding a hot bath so you can “test the efficacy of their air-source heat pumps”

    If I was your neighbour I’d move away soon after
    It's only weird because you're a Londoner who would look aghast at the idea of getting to know your neighbours or even having friends?

    Same problem you're having here as to why you're an Uber bore.
    Goodness me @Casino_Royale calm down!

    You are being very gently teased. Roll with it
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,866
    edited July 2023

    So, if you spend £100k to totally rebuild your house, strip down the outside walls, fill the cavities, create a giant underground heating system, retrofit all the glazing and loft insulation and you don't mind cold baths, and are fine with wearing several jumpers and dressing gowns when it gets properly cold, then installing a strapping great ASHP can work really well. Otherwise, forget it.

    Glad we cleared that up.

    Ignoring the "giant underground heating system" (not sure whether you mean GSHP or underfloor heating) that's just a normal decent-standard renovation.

    Cavity insulation. dry lining, loft and underfloor insulation, high end double glazing, rewire, new central heating system (if specced reasonably - may be as simple as double rads and a mid size Heat Pump) are all reasonably priced if you don't swallow the sales-talk. Plus ... grants.

    The stuff that costs money is full external insulation, cosmetics and structural improvement or a new roof. And potentially asbestos or concrete cancer if you choose the wrong one.

    You won't be wearing huge jumpers because you will have taken the fabric energy efficiency from an E to verging on a B - which will likely reduce the heating demand by more than half.

    For say a normal sized semi it's more like 25-35k than 100k if it is even that much, and you may get a kitchen and a bathroom included.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,454
    viewcode said:

    Carnyx said:

    viewcode said:

    Carnyx said:

    viewcode said:

    I've been trying to avoid the miscellaneous upcoming stupid future shit (piped hydrogen, online safety bill, something to do with boilers, all cars must be electric and somebody else's, all roads must be closed, more stupid MP shit that only works if you are rich), but I must confess to ignorance about heat pumps. Can some kind person explain to me what they involve and what degree of compulsion they entail? If I'm going to go full Meldrew it helps to be informed with facts.

    Some stuff for idiots (i. e. me):

    https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/ground-and-air-source-heat-pumps/article/guides

    Re legal stuff, I believe that option A gas boilers are to be phased out so heat pumps are obviously one option B.

    https://www.britishgas.co.uk/the-source/greener-living/gas-boilers-ban-2025.html
    [edit also] https://heatable.co.uk/boiler-advice/are-gas-boilers-being-phased-out

    [edit] but I am sure some expert on PB will advise.
    So a heat pump is an inside-out fridge that runs on electricity and is the size of an old sideboard and a bit bigger than a Wheely bin. For it to work you must be able to run a pipe from inside your house to outside.

    People in flats won't be able to have one.
    Air to ground, no, but what about air to air pump surely?
    How do I move air inside to air outside without going thru the walls (forbidden in leasehold properties) or windows (again difficult)?
    Ah, you didn't say leasehold before, and I live in Scotland ... but fair enough. I suppose one is not allowed to move one's gas-fired central heating from flat to flat already, though!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,139
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Put simply: I don't trust those who are pushing air-source heat pumps; they all have an agenda.

    I'm not risking the comfort and wellbeing of my family and a warm home until I go round to a trusted friend or neighbours house (on a cold and dark night) and feel it for myself, including having a hot bath.

    That won't be at all weird.
    I find PBers increasingly weird. Like @JosiasJessop running his sweaty marathon right into the local pride March and then deciding to talk to all the gays in Nottingham. Awks

    I begin to wonder if I am the only sane PBer left. And I am a crazy alcoholic
    It's not weird to travel to the safest part of a country at war, spend all your time whilst there posting on here, and then throw a paddy when no-one gives you attention for taking your takeaway spritzer into the Anderson shelter whilst virtually nothing happens overhead?

    Bit weird.
    Well I did say that I’m a crazy alcoholic. Hence me drinking here in the “safest part of a war zone”

    And yet none of that is as weird as you going round to your neighbour’s house and demanding a hot bath so you can “test the efficacy of their air-source heat pumps”

    If I was your neighbour I’d move away soon after
    It's only weird because you're a Londoner who would look aghast at the idea of getting to know your neighbours or even having friends?

    Same problem you're having here as to why you're an Uber bore.
    Goodness me @Casino_Royale calm down!

    You are being very gently teased. Roll with it
    Well, likewise!

    I'm perfectly calm mate. Sitting here in shorts in the Thracian sun sinking beers. I'm quite enjoying myself actually!

    This was me yesterday at Sunny Beach, which - during the day at least- wasn't quite as chavvy as I'd been led to believe.


  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,240
    TOPPING said:

    Stocky said:

    TOPPING said:

    Anyway I have now finished both Succession and A Little Life so can relax when people discuss "popular culture".

    Spoil away.

    I assume you are going to tell me to persevere with Succession then? I'm half way through the first series and it hasn't grabbed me yet.
    Yes do. The performances are outstanding if the narrative a bit winding.
    Along with THE GREAT and THE BEAR it is the best TV drama of the last three years or so. To my mind

    The drama you absolutely look forward to. The kind of drama you are reluctant to binge-watch because it is so good
  • StockyStocky Posts: 9,997
    Jonathan said:

    Nigelb said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    I’m getting quite “Jolyon Maugham in a kimono smashing a fox to death with a baseball bat on Boxing Day” vibes from @Casino_Royale today

    Perhaps it is just Too Much Politics

    It’s a beautiful midsummer’s day. The sun is shining, joy abounds.
    It's pissing down here.
    Sarcasm. Heavy sarcasm.


    It's been unremittingly grim here in the Midlands for the entire month of July. Even when the sun was out it was windy.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,380
    viewcode said:

    Carnyx said:

    viewcode said:

    Carnyx said:

    viewcode said:

    I've been trying to avoid the miscellaneous upcoming stupid future shit (piped hydrogen, online safety bill, something to do with boilers, all cars must be electric and somebody else's, all roads must be closed, more stupid MP shit that only works if you are rich), but I must confess to ignorance about heat pumps. Can some kind person explain to me what they involve and what degree of compulsion they entail? If I'm going to go full Meldrew it helps to be informed with facts.

    Some stuff for idiots (i. e. me):

    https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/ground-and-air-source-heat-pumps/article/guides

    Re legal stuff, I believe that option A gas boilers are to be phased out so heat pumps are obviously one option B.

    https://www.britishgas.co.uk/the-source/greener-living/gas-boilers-ban-2025.html
    [edit also] https://heatable.co.uk/boiler-advice/are-gas-boilers-being-phased-out

    [edit] but I am sure some expert on PB will advise.
    So a heat pump is an inside-out fridge that runs on electricity and is the size of an old sideboard and a bit bigger than a Wheely bin. For it to work you must be able to run a pipe from inside your house to outside.

    People in flats won't be able to have one.
    Air to ground, no, but what about air to air pump surely?
    How do I move air inside to air outside without going thru the walls (forbidden in leasehold properties) or windows (again difficult)?
    Same way you fit a gas boiler, surely? Which also need at least one hole in a wall? Most come with one fitted, of course, but it's not unknown to move them (or maybe it is in leasehold properties, given what you've said).

    How do people in warm countries fit air-con units to flats?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,139
    Stocky said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Put simply: I don't trust those who are pushing air-source heat pumps; they all have an agenda.

    I'm not risking the comfort and wellbeing of my family and a warm home until I go round to a trusted friend or neighbours house (on a cold and dark night) and feel it for myself, including having a hot bath.

    That won't be at all weird.
    You've got a spare bedroom, haven't you?

    You could brush up on your diphthongs and DE&S acronym greatest hits, strip off the lycra, and get in with me whilst furiously beating yourself with a courgette and ranting at me about how much you despise Tories and women.
    And I thought it couldn't get any weirder on here today.
    It should properly wind him up, that one.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,507
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Stocky said:

    TOPPING said:

    Anyway I have now finished both Succession and A Little Life so can relax when people discuss "popular culture".

    Spoil away.

    I assume you are going to tell me to persevere with Succession then? I'm half way through the first series and it hasn't grabbed me yet.
    Yes do. The performances are outstanding if the narrative a bit winding.
    Along with THE GREAT and THE BEAR it is the best TV drama of the last three years or so. To my mind

    The drama you absolutely look forward to. The kind of drama you are reluctant to binge-watch because it is so good
    (I can finally now say) the denouement is perfect.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,357
    When you think about it, the fact phones work - or used to work - during a power cut is a pretty clever bit of engineering, although they didn't think of it like that when they invented the system.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    Stocky said:

    I don't know anything about heat pumps other than what I've heard from others who don't like them: that they are ugly, large, noisy and generate insufficient power to adequately heat a home or a bath.

    No idea whether this is correct.

    In most properties in the UK that is an excellent description
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,380

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Put simply: I don't trust those who are pushing air-source heat pumps; they all have an agenda.

    I'm not risking the comfort and wellbeing of my family and a warm home until I go round to a trusted friend or neighbours house (on a cold and dark night) and feel it for myself, including having a hot bath.

    That won't be at all weird.
    I find PBers increasingly weird. Like @JosiasJessop running his sweaty marathon right into the local pride March and then deciding to talk to all the gays in Nottingham. Awks

    I begin to wonder if I am the only sane PBer left. And I am a crazy alcoholic
    It's not weird to travel to the safest part of a country at war, spend all your time whilst there posting on here, and then throw a paddy when no-one gives you attention for taking your takeaway spritzer into the Anderson shelter whilst virtually nothing happens overhead?

    Bit weird.
    Well I did say that I’m a crazy alcoholic. Hence me drinking here in the “safest part of a war zone”

    And yet none of that is as weird as you going round to your neighbour’s house and demanding a hot bath so you can “test the efficacy of their air-source heat pumps”

    If I was your neighbour I’d move away soon after
    It's only weird because you're a Londoner who would look aghast at the idea of getting to know your neighbours or even having friends?

    Same problem you're having here as to why you're an Uber bore.
    Goodness me @Casino_Royale calm down!

    You are being very gently teased. Roll with it
    Well, likewise!

    I'm perfectly calm mate. Sitting here in shorts in the Thracian sun sinking beers. I'm quite enjoying myself actually!

    This was me yesterday at Sunny Beach, which - during the day at least- wasn't quite as chavvy as I'd been led to believe.


    Scans picture for nearest human for "this was me".

    That you in the bikini, CR?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,368
    Stocky said:

    Jonathan said:

    Nigelb said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    I’m getting quite “Jolyon Maugham in a kimono smashing a fox to death with a baseball bat on Boxing Day” vibes from @Casino_Royale today

    Perhaps it is just Too Much Politics

    It’s a beautiful midsummer’s day. The sun is shining, joy abounds.
    It's pissing down here.
    Sarcasm. Heavy sarcasm.


    It's been unremittingly grim here in the Midlands for the entire month of July. Even when the sun was out it was windy.
    There needs to be a word to describe the desperation you feel coming back to the grey U.K. after being away somewhere nice. Last week I was in DC, NYC and hiking upstate NY in glorious sunshine. This week is hard.
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    Sandpit said:

    148grss said:

    Nigelb said:

    148grss said:

    Nigelb said:

    More radical free speech in X action.

    Twitter Threatens Legal Action Against Nonprofit That Tracks Hate Speech

    The Center for Countering Digital Hate said it had received a letter from X, Twitter’s parent company, accusing it of trying to hurt the social platform with its research.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/31/technology/twitter-x-center-for-countering-digital-hate.html

    Does Musk enjoy setting piles of money on fire and pissing off lawyers and judges?
    Apparently so.

    Note discovery will give the defendants access to all the data he's been denying them.
    If in discovery there is any sense that anyone in X knew that changes would indirectly or directly, purposefully or as a biproduct, increase hate speech Musk will be adding self immolation to his new hobbies since buying Twitter.
    That particular campaign group, does appear to have a rather narrow definition of “hate speech”.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_for_Countering_Digital_Hate
    I mean, what is the action taking place that is an issue? If they are just aggregating Tweets that they consider hate speech (alongside their campaigning)... what is actionable? The designation of something as hate speech and it being platformed by X?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,139
    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Put simply: I don't trust those who are pushing air-source heat pumps; they all have an agenda.

    I'm not risking the comfort and wellbeing of my family and a warm home until I go round to a trusted friend or neighbours house (on a cold and dark night) and feel it for myself, including having a hot bath.

    That won't be at all weird.
    I find PBers increasingly weird. Like @JosiasJessop running his sweaty marathon right into the local pride March and then deciding to talk to all the gays in Nottingham. Awks

    I begin to wonder if I am the only sane PBer left. And I am a crazy alcoholic
    It's not weird to travel to the safest part of a country at war, spend all your time whilst there posting on here, and then throw a paddy when no-one gives you attention for taking your takeaway spritzer into the Anderson shelter whilst virtually nothing happens overhead?

    Bit weird.
    Well I did say that I’m a crazy alcoholic. Hence me drinking here in the “safest part of a war zone”

    And yet none of that is as weird as you going round to your neighbour’s house and demanding a hot bath so you can “test the efficacy of their air-source heat pumps”

    If I was your neighbour I’d move away soon after
    It's only weird because you're a Londoner who would look aghast at the idea of getting to know your neighbours or even having friends?

    Same problem you're having here as to why you're an Uber bore.
    Goodness me @Casino_Royale calm down!

    You are being very gently teased. Roll with it
    Well, likewise!

    I'm perfectly calm mate. Sitting here in shorts in the Thracian sun sinking beers. I'm quite enjoying myself actually!

    This was me yesterday at Sunny Beach, which - during the day at least- wasn't quite as chavvy as I'd been led to believe.


    Scans picture for nearest human for "this was me".

    That you in the bikini, CR?
    Please don't tell anyone.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,507
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Stocky said:

    TOPPING said:

    Anyway I have now finished both Succession and A Little Life so can relax when people discuss "popular culture".

    Spoil away.

    I assume you are going to tell me to persevere with Succession then? I'm half way through the first series and it hasn't grabbed me yet.
    Yes do. The performances are outstanding if the narrative a bit winding.
    Along with THE GREAT and THE BEAR it is the best TV drama of the last three years or so. To my mind

    The drama you absolutely look forward to. The kind of drama you are reluctant to binge-watch because it is so good
    Also noted on those two I will look them out. I've just started out on Jury Duty. It is I believe a wholly new genre and very funny. Like a cross between The Office and Big Brother.

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt22074164/
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,761
    Dura_Ace said:

    Put simply: I don't trust those who are pushing air-source heat pumps; they all have an agenda.

    I'm not risking the comfort and wellbeing of my family and a warm home until I go round to a trusted friend or neighbours house (on a cold and dark night) and feel it for myself, including having a hot bath.

    I now have an image in my head of a bloke of a certain age turning up on doorsteps in a frayed shorty terrycloth bathrobe and a towel over his arm, angrily demanding a bath. Not good.

    Who's in the bathroom?
    That angry bloke from next door. He took a picture of the old queen and a cucumber in with him.
    Ii will never unsee that image!
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,601
    Anyone looking forward to the Hundred tomorrow? No me neither! 😈👿😈
  • StockyStocky Posts: 9,997
    Jonathan said:

    Stocky said:

    Jonathan said:

    Nigelb said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    I’m getting quite “Jolyon Maugham in a kimono smashing a fox to death with a baseball bat on Boxing Day” vibes from @Casino_Royale today

    Perhaps it is just Too Much Politics

    It’s a beautiful midsummer’s day. The sun is shining, joy abounds.
    It's pissing down here.
    Sarcasm. Heavy sarcasm.


    It's been unremittingly grim here in the Midlands for the entire month of July. Even when the sun was out it was windy.
    There needs to be a word to describe the desperation you feel coming back to the grey U.K. after being away somewhere nice. Last week I was in DC, NYC and hiking upstate NY in glorious sunshine. This week is hard.
    I'm with you. Last week I was in south of France. So depressing to be home. I used to look forward to coming home from holiday.
  • PeckPeck Posts: 517
    edited July 2023
    Andy_JS said:

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ

    Quite the stat from Dominic Lawson in the Sunday Times:

    More than 5,500 customers have had their bank accounts closed by @NatWestGroup. None was able to talk to anyone at the bank about why it had happened. Some were told to "use a food bank"."

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1685739900396609536

    That sounds like the banks writing off bad debts - or a small proportion of them.

    Cue some propaganda about how we all need the banks, it's so difficult to get credit, it should be easier, everyone should be able to get credit, just because you've got loads of tattoos and haven't got two ha'pennies to rub together doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to pay your bills online, there's a difference between public service banking and casino banking, etc.

    I wonder which bank will hit the wall first this time. My money barterable items would be on Santander, Virgin, or Metro.

    Each of those three seems to run a brand aimed at ... shall we say people who haven't got much chance of paying back what they borrow. Their whole image seems best conveyed by a sign written in some crappy font, hanging down on one side because a nail has fallen out. "Fancy a kebab? Come in and get yer tasty loans, two for the price of one. Special offer."
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,240

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Put simply: I don't trust those who are pushing air-source heat pumps; they all have an agenda.

    I'm not risking the comfort and wellbeing of my family and a warm home until I go round to a trusted friend or neighbours house (on a cold and dark night) and feel it for myself, including having a hot bath.

    That won't be at all weird.
    I find PBers increasingly weird. Like @JosiasJessop running his sweaty marathon right into the local pride March and then deciding to talk to all the gays in Nottingham. Awks

    I begin to wonder if I am the only sane PBer left. And I am a crazy alcoholic
    It's not weird to travel to the safest part of a country at war, spend all your time whilst there posting on here, and then throw a paddy when no-one gives you attention for taking your takeaway spritzer into the Anderson shelter whilst virtually nothing happens overhead?

    Bit weird.
    Well I did say that I’m a crazy alcoholic. Hence me drinking here in the “safest part of a war zone”

    And yet none of that is as weird as you going round to your neighbour’s house and demanding a hot bath so you can “test the efficacy of their air-source heat pumps”

    If I was your neighbour I’d move away soon after
    It's only weird because you're a Londoner who would look aghast at the idea of getting to know your neighbours or even having friends?

    Same problem you're having here as to why you're an Uber bore.
    Goodness me @Casino_Royale calm down!

    You are being very gently teased. Roll with it
    Well, likewise!

    I'm perfectly calm mate. Sitting here in shorts in the Thracian sun sinking beers. I'm quite enjoying myself actually!

    This was me yesterday at Sunny Beach, which - during the day at least- wasn't quite as chavvy as I'd been led to believe.


    Good man

    I’ve got a friend who swears by Sunny Beach. Mind you he goes there for the Moldovan hookers so I’ll spare you any further details

    I’m yearning to go the Bulgarian mountains after I read this brilliant book


    Border: A Journey to the Edge of Europe https://amzn.eu/d/5CGBA9N
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,053
    Carnyx said:

    viewcode said:

    Carnyx said:

    viewcode said:

    Carnyx said:

    viewcode said:

    I've been trying to avoid the miscellaneous upcoming stupid future shit (piped hydrogen, online safety bill, something to do with boilers, all cars must be electric and somebody else's, all roads must be closed, more stupid MP shit that only works if you are rich), but I must confess to ignorance about heat pumps. Can some kind person explain to me what they involve and what degree of compulsion they entail? If I'm going to go full Meldrew it helps to be informed with facts.

    Some stuff for idiots (i. e. me):

    https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/ground-and-air-source-heat-pumps/article/guides

    Re legal stuff, I believe that option A gas boilers are to be phased out so heat pumps are obviously one option B.

    https://www.britishgas.co.uk/the-source/greener-living/gas-boilers-ban-2025.html
    [edit also] https://heatable.co.uk/boiler-advice/are-gas-boilers-being-phased-out

    [edit] but I am sure some expert on PB will advise.
    So a heat pump is an inside-out fridge that runs on electricity and is the size of an old sideboard and a bit bigger than a Wheely bin. For it to work you must be able to run a pipe from inside your house to outside.

    People in flats won't be able to have one.
    Air to ground, no, but what about air to air pump surely?
    How do I move air inside to air outside without going thru the walls (forbidden in leasehold properties) or windows (again difficult)?
    Ah, you didn't say leasehold before, and I live in Scotland ... but fair enough. I suppose one is not allowed to move one's gas-fired central heating from flat to flat already, though!
    Ah yes, I forgot property ownership rules are different in Scotland. My bad.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,517
    Andy_JS said:

    When you think about it, the fact phones work - or used to work - during a power cut is a pretty clever bit of engineering, although they didn't think of it like that when they invented the system.

    Sadly the copper lines are rubbish.

    You can get battery back ups so your VOIP service works during a power cut.

    With BT Halo you get a mobile back to ensure your landline works if your BB goes down.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,314
    Peck said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ

    Quite the stat from Dominic Lawson in the Sunday Times:

    More than 5,500 customers have had their bank accounts closed by @NatWestGroup. None was able to talk to anyone at the bank about why it had happened. Some were told to "use a food bank"."

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1685739900396609536

    That sounds like the banks writing off bad debts - or a small proportion of them.

    Cue some propaganda about how we all need the banks, it's so difficult to get credit, it should be easier, everyone should be able to get credit, there's a difference between public service banking and casino banking, etc.

    I wonder which bank will hit the wall first this time. My money barterable items would be on Santander, Virgin, or Metro.

    Each of those three seems to run a brand aimed at ... shall we say people who haven't got much chance of paying back what they borrow. Their whole image seems best conveyed by a sign written in some crappy font, hanging down on one side because a nail has fallen out.
    Isn’t this mostly about current accounts, rather than borrowing accounts?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,750
    In Europe, they apparently quilt some of their houses to facilitate the use of heat pumps.
    https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1684543943684358145
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,202
    viewcode said:

    Carnyx said:

    viewcode said:

    Carnyx said:

    viewcode said:

    I've been trying to avoid the miscellaneous upcoming stupid future shit (piped hydrogen, online safety bill, something to do with boilers, all cars must be electric and somebody else's, all roads must be closed, more stupid MP shit that only works if you are rich), but I must confess to ignorance about heat pumps. Can some kind person explain to me what they involve and what degree of compulsion they entail? If I'm going to go full Meldrew it helps to be informed with facts.

    Some stuff for idiots (i. e. me):

    https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/ground-and-air-source-heat-pumps/article/guides

    Re legal stuff, I believe that option A gas boilers are to be phased out so heat pumps are obviously one option B.

    https://www.britishgas.co.uk/the-source/greener-living/gas-boilers-ban-2025.html
    [edit also] https://heatable.co.uk/boiler-advice/are-gas-boilers-being-phased-out

    [edit] but I am sure some expert on PB will advise.
    So a heat pump is an inside-out fridge that runs on electricity and is the size of an old sideboard and a bit bigger than a Wheely bin. For it to work you must be able to run a pipe from inside your house to outside.

    People in flats won't be able to have one.
    Air to ground, no, but what about air to air pump surely?
    How do I move air inside to air outside without going thru the walls (forbidden in leasehold properties) or windows (again difficult)?
    Same way aircon installs do - mini-split heat pumps that pump the working fluid from inside to outside & back again through pipework that passes through reasonably small holes in the walls. Air never passes through the wall, only the heat pump working fluid to the two heat exchangers - one inside & one outside. (Or in some installs, one outside heat exchanger & many small internal ones.)

    If people can manage to get aircon installed in their flats, they can install dual mode aircon that works backwards as a heater. That’s what a heat pump is after all.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 7,904
    edited July 2023
    Nigelb said:

    At the risk of setting things off again...

    Amsterdam’s plan to remove 11,200 parking spaces from its streets by the end of 2025 is even more inspiring when we realize the kind of people-places that are possible where cars used to be. Example — #Amsterdam’s Elandsgracht between 2014 & 2019, via @schlijper’s great pics.
    https://twitter.com/BrentToderian/status/1685732963588476928

    Much prefer a red-brick new build with three parking spots and a plastic lawn, thank you very much.

    #voteconservative
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,866
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    TOPPING said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Mortimer said:

    Slightly tongue in cheek, but the strongest correlating indicator of Conservative voting that I have ever found in 20 years of canvassing is car related.

    - Those washing their car in their driveway on a Saturday morning.

    Slightly disconcertingly for the blue meanies, apart from my Dad, I don't know anyone who does this now. Why bother when its a tenner at the local hand car wash?

    The gangs of trafficked Kurdish vagabonds don't even use the 'Two Bucket' system which is the absolute minimum for not fucking your clear coat. One session at one of these refugee camps and it's done for.

    Correcting a fucked clear coat, if it's not too far gone, is a lot of work and you're knocking a couple of grand off the value at least. Unless you can offload it onto to some mug who can't judge the fuckedness state of clear coats.
    I wonder what a clear coat is. I mostly just rely on rain to wash off my 2015 Fiesta. I never give my car a thought except when I'm actually in it or the MoT demand comes round.

    PB is a useful reminder that there are a multitude of different ways to live...
    For me, a car is simply a tool that allows me to do what I need/want to do. If I could do the things I wanted to do without a car, I'd not have one. I find no great joy in driving; the joy can come from what I do at the destination.

    I also don't see my car as an extension of my psyche, or a reflection of who I am. It's a car.
    And that is, I think, the heart of the matter. Once a car is a means to an end, then it's possible that there are other ways of achieving the same ends better. In fact, it's possible that car use gets in the way of achieving those ends.
    The car is an interesting machine. It promises individual freedom, but relies on infrastructure that is provided collectively. It provides convenience for its owner but inconveniences others. It allows us to be ourselves but cuts us off from other people. It lets us do more but makes us less active. It opens up choices for some and restricts choices for others.
    Politically it's interesting because of all the things we do on a day to day basis it probably imposes more negative externalities, global and local, than anything else. Increasingly I think the political left-right divide comes down to whether you take the idea of these externalities seriously or not. The right can get a lot of mileage out of telling their voters that they can do what they want and any negative effects on other people are unimportant. The danger for the left is that they overestimate the extent to which people are willing, or feel able to afford, to care.
    I think the Cons are absolutely right to pick a fight over car ownership because most of us have one and many of us realise the impracticalities of acting too quickly to dispossess us of them, or penalising ownership which the ULEZ has shown so clearly.

    It is the one area (and I can't for the life of me think of any other) where actually the Cons might be able to claw some votes back and it seems that Lab are handing these to them on a plate.
    Heat Punps

    Disaster waiting to happen.
    They sound bloody awful.
    Good ideas in a well insulated or well restored house.

    Get a correct type, and you can run it backwards in summer off your solar to cool the house.

    Air to air heatpumps are well-spoken of as a simple solution amongst those I know, and don't necessarily need much central control.

    Personally, I am probably going for an air-to-water heatpump when the current boiler dies, since my radiators etc are designed for it and need no swaps.

    Modern heat pumps seem to be OK to a few degrees above freezing, but it is probably important to have cut your peak heat demand by about 50-70% first by a good fabric upgrade.
    The problem is your final paragraph, which will be difficult and expensive with older properties, and what you do to heat the house when the air temperature outside plummets to -5C or below.
    You're right on your first point but it can be done. We renovated a 1960 bungalow. We filled the cavity, put 100mm of insulation on the outside of the walls and rendered over, put in an insulated floor with underfloor heating, installed triple glazed windows and a mechanical heat recovery ventilation system (so no drafts).

    It was of course a major undertaking (although we did live in the house throughout). It has easily paid for itself in terms of house value although we did buy the house at auction as a 'needs total renovation' job.

    Regarding the " what you do to heat the house when the air temperature outside plummets to -5C or below" question - we have never had a problem, it just works.
    I sort of understand mostd of that, but how does the heated floor work, without the whole hypocaust and slave in loincloth business?
    Plastic water pipes buried in the screed. Hot water pumped through by the central heating system. Room thermostats control which UFH circuits are getting the hot water.
    Ah, thanks. What about timber floors (upper storey rooms, and in older houses' ground floors)? Just getting some sense of what one needs to consider when lookign for a new house (am at that age).
    Quite complicated to answer fully but:

    - Upstairs you can heating pipes between the joists under the floor. We don't bother because the house is so well insulated the upstairs guest rooms borrow heat from downstairs and are never cold.
    - Wooden floors are not a problem but there's a bit of calculation to be done regarding the relative heat transmission across the insulation below the UFH and the floor above - a solid wood floor may not be as efficient as stone/tiled floors (which is what we have throughout downstairs). Engineered wooden floors tend to be better for UFH.
    Thanks. Of course; wood is an insulator, and you don't insulate radiators ...
    Yes, however underfloor heating is usually going to be on constantly at a low temperature for long hours, and the lifestyle is usually to have the house at a constant temperature so fairly slow heat transmission does not matter very much.

    A common winter management technique is simply to use a plug in fan heater for the few occasions it needs a boost in winter, or have an electric towel rail wired in the bathroom, or a loft heater wired in the bedrooms. Depends on the individual house, however.

    For highly insulated houses, overheating in the summer, or in the autumn / spring shoulder months, are more of an issue - since heat that soaks in can't easily get back out again. Adding more heat is usually much easier than removing it.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,420
    Phil said:

    Andy_JS said:

    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Peck said:

    Those who go all-electric in their homes as they park their electric vehicles on their driveways are so touchingly trusting in the continued supply of mains electricity. Nothing like Venezuela (or what seems about to happen in Argentina) could possibly happen in Blighty. No bank problems, wars, culls, upheavals. Just a furry slipper stroking a human face - forever.

    Until just now we've had a landline phone network that works even if there's a power cut. In the future it won't work if there's one. Same sort of thing.
    Time to get a mobile phone, perhaps? ;)
    Same problem. You can't charge it if there's a power cut.
    We just keep a decent sized battery pack charged in a drawer, just in case.

    Your problem in a more widespread power cut is that the radio masts will lose power once their batteries run down. But that’s true of the phone exchange too.
    If power cuts are a problem then the exchanges will most likely be out.

    A real preper has a satellite phone.

    Some years ago, after a big storm there was a massive power outage. Everyone in that area found out about how oil heating depends on electric pumps. Apart from a guy I worked with.

    He’d setup a UPS, a battery bank in a shed and a generator that ran off heating oil. Complete with automated triggering.

    He heard about the problem when his wife rang him at work on the “funny phone” (the satellite phone) to tell him that the other phones weren’t working, and the generator had auto-started. He was very smug.

    Apparently they had the only working heating and fridge/freezer in the area, for days.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,516
    Dura_Ace said:

    Put simply: I don't trust those who are pushing air-source heat pumps; they all have an agenda.

    I'm not risking the comfort and wellbeing of my family and a warm home until I go round to a trusted friend or neighbours house (on a cold and dark night) and feel it for myself, including having a hot bath.

    I now have an image in my head of a bloke of a certain age turning up on doorsteps in a frayed shorty terrycloth bathrobe and a towel over his arm, angrily demanding a bath. Not good.

    Who's in the bathroom?
    That angry bloke from next door. He took a picture of the old queen and a cucumber in with him.
    I've just cried myself silly laughing. My wife and dog thought I was having a breakdown.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,761
    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Put simply: I don't trust those who are pushing air-source heat pumps; they all have an agenda.

    I'm not risking the comfort and wellbeing of my family and a warm home until I go round to a trusted friend or neighbours house (on a cold and dark night) and feel it for myself, including having a hot bath.

    That won't be at all weird.
    I find PBers increasingly weird. Like @JosiasJessop running his sweaty marathon right into the local pride March and then deciding to talk to all the gays in Nottingham. Awks

    I begin to wonder if I am the only sane PBer left. And I am a crazy alcoholic
    It's not weird to travel to the safest part of a country at war, spend all your time whilst there posting on here, and then throw a paddy when no-one gives you attention for taking your takeaway spritzer into the Anderson shelter whilst virtually nothing happens overhead?

    Bit weird.
    Well I did say that I’m a crazy alcoholic. Hence me drinking here in the “safest part of a war zone”

    And yet none of that is as weird as you going round to your neighbour’s house and demanding a hot bath so you can “test the efficacy of their air-source heat pumps”

    If I was your neighbour I’d move away soon after
    Mrs DA just asked what I was laughing at. I thought about explaining but lied and said it was a cat on TikTok. She'd never understand what we have.
    PB is simultaneously a sad halfway house for quasi-lunatics barely able to function in the real world, and the best pub on the planet

    Edited to add: I definitely include myself in the first category
    That’s because the best pubs are full off quasi-lunatics
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,357
    edited July 2023
    "Posted at 14:51

    The scenes at The Oval are not good.
    The simplest way I can put it is that it's absolutely hammering it down."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/cricket/64959416
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,454
    viewcode said:

    Carnyx said:

    viewcode said:

    Carnyx said:

    viewcode said:

    Carnyx said:

    viewcode said:

    I've been trying to avoid the miscellaneous upcoming stupid future shit (piped hydrogen, online safety bill, something to do with boilers, all cars must be electric and somebody else's, all roads must be closed, more stupid MP shit that only works if you are rich), but I must confess to ignorance about heat pumps. Can some kind person explain to me what they involve and what degree of compulsion they entail? If I'm going to go full Meldrew it helps to be informed with facts.

    Some stuff for idiots (i. e. me):

    https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/ground-and-air-source-heat-pumps/article/guides

    Re legal stuff, I believe that option A gas boilers are to be phased out so heat pumps are obviously one option B.

    https://www.britishgas.co.uk/the-source/greener-living/gas-boilers-ban-2025.html
    [edit also] https://heatable.co.uk/boiler-advice/are-gas-boilers-being-phased-out

    [edit] but I am sure some expert on PB will advise.
    So a heat pump is an inside-out fridge that runs on electricity and is the size of an old sideboard and a bit bigger than a Wheely bin. For it to work you must be able to run a pipe from inside your house to outside.

    People in flats won't be able to have one.
    Air to ground, no, but what about air to air pump surely?
    How do I move air inside to air outside without going thru the walls (forbidden in leasehold properties) or windows (again difficult)?
    Ah, you didn't say leasehold before, and I live in Scotland ... but fair enough. I suppose one is not allowed to move one's gas-fired central heating from flat to flat already, though!
    Ah yes, I forgot property ownership rules are different in Scotland. My bad.
    Not your fault at all - just never occurred to me that it might be an issue, outside rentals of course.

    There's currently a discussion about the appropriate role of heat pumps in Scottish legislation for the near to medium future: early days yet

    https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/23688770.half-scots-support-harvies-plan-phase-fossil-fuel-boilers/

    Though as we have seen here it's been touted by Tories as compulsory heat pumps for all - but as RP pointed out this would be only where heat pumps made sense in the first place. Devil in the details, as always.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 17,445

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Put simply: I don't trust those who are pushing air-source heat pumps; they all have an agenda.

    I'm not risking the comfort and wellbeing of my family and a warm home until I go round to a trusted friend or neighbours house (on a cold and dark night) and feel it for myself, including having a hot bath.

    That won't be at all weird.
    I find PBers increasingly weird. Like @JosiasJessop running his sweaty marathon right into the local pride March and then deciding to talk to all the gays in Nottingham. Awks

    I begin to wonder if I am the only sane PBer left. And I am a crazy alcoholic
    It's not weird to travel to the safest part of a country at war, spend all your time whilst there posting on here, and then throw a paddy when no-one gives you attention for taking your takeaway spritzer into the Anderson shelter whilst virtually nothing happens overhead?

    Bit weird.
    Well I did say that I’m a crazy alcoholic. Hence me drinking here in the “safest part of a war zone”

    And yet none of that is as weird as you going round to your neighbour’s house and demanding a hot bath so you can “test the efficacy of their air-source heat pumps”

    If I was your neighbour I’d move away soon after
    It's only weird because you're a Londoner who would look aghast at the idea of getting to know your neighbours or even having friends?

    Same problem you're having here as to why you're an Uber bore.
    Goodness me @Casino_Royale calm down!

    You are being very gently teased. Roll with it
    Well, likewise!

    I'm perfectly calm mate. Sitting here in shorts in the Thracian sun sinking beers. I'm quite enjoying myself actually!

    This was me yesterday at Sunny Beach, which - during the day at least- wasn't quite as chavvy as I'd been led to believe.
    Were there still lots of Russians at Sunny Beach?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,440
    Andy_JS said:

    "Posted at 14:51

    The scenes at The Oval are not good.
    The simplest way I can put it is that it's absolutely hammering it down."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/cricket/64959416

    Probably for the best the way Smith was chugging along.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,139
    kjh said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Put simply: I don't trust those who are pushing air-source heat pumps; they all have an agenda.

    I'm not risking the comfort and wellbeing of my family and a warm home until I go round to a trusted friend or neighbours house (on a cold and dark night) and feel it for myself, including having a hot bath.

    I now have an image in my head of a bloke of a certain age turning up on doorsteps in a frayed shorty terrycloth bathrobe and a towel over his arm, angrily demanding a bath. Not good.

    Who's in the bathroom?
    That angry bloke from next door. He took a picture of the old queen and a cucumber in with him.
    I've just cried myself silly laughing. My wife and dog thought I was having a breakdown.
    To be fair, even I laughed at that one!

    At least @Dura_Ace would offer me a bath, even if not a cucumber.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 16,541
    Andy_JS said:

    "Posted at 14:51

    The scenes at The Oval are not good.
    The simplest way I can put it is that it's absolutely hammering it down."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/cricket/64959416

    Cricket.

    It's so character-building.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,380
    Nigelb said:

    In Europe, they apparently quilt some of their houses to facilitate the use of heat pumps.
    https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1684543943684358145

    Needs a bit of a wash, that one :open_mouth:
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,380

    kjh said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Put simply: I don't trust those who are pushing air-source heat pumps; they all have an agenda.

    I'm not risking the comfort and wellbeing of my family and a warm home until I go round to a trusted friend or neighbours house (on a cold and dark night) and feel it for myself, including having a hot bath.

    I now have an image in my head of a bloke of a certain age turning up on doorsteps in a frayed shorty terrycloth bathrobe and a towel over his arm, angrily demanding a bath. Not good.

    Who's in the bathroom?
    That angry bloke from next door. He took a picture of the old queen and a cucumber in with him.
    I've just cried myself silly laughing. My wife and dog thought I was having a breakdown.
    To be fair, even I laughed at that one!

    At least @Dura_Ace would offer me a bath, even if not a cucumber.
    Picture of a cucumber and the Queen wasn't it? :innocent:

    Or was there a missing Oxford comma? :open_mouth:
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,053
    viewcode said:

    People in flats won't be able to have one [a heat pump].

    Phil said:

    Yes they will, you just bolt the heat exchanger to the outside of the wall: A heat pump is just an air conditioner running in reverse. If you can fit air<->air aircon then you can fit aircon that works as a heater too.

    People in flats have air conditioners. They will be able to have heat pumps.

    @Phil, @LostPassword

    Most flats don't have aircon. This isn't New York. Here are some blocks of flats in (chosen at random) in Bournemouth, but it could be any provincial town.

    https://ww3.rics.org/uk/en/journals/built-environment-journal/surveyor-casts-expert-eye-over-flats--fire-risk.html
    https://www.primelocation.com/for-sale/property/bournemouth/christchurch-road/
    https://goadsby.com/property/residential/southbourne/bournemouth/bh6/1086841/

    No aircon.

    Leasehold flats have rules about structural changes (you can't) and that's specified in the leasehold agreement.

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,139
    edited July 2023
    Selebian said:

    kjh said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Put simply: I don't trust those who are pushing air-source heat pumps; they all have an agenda.

    I'm not risking the comfort and wellbeing of my family and a warm home until I go round to a trusted friend or neighbours house (on a cold and dark night) and feel it for myself, including having a hot bath.

    I now have an image in my head of a bloke of a certain age turning up on doorsteps in a frayed shorty terrycloth bathrobe and a towel over his arm, angrily demanding a bath. Not good.

    Who's in the bathroom?
    That angry bloke from next door. He took a picture of the old queen and a cucumber in with him.
    I've just cried myself silly laughing. My wife and dog thought I was having a breakdown.
    To be fair, even I laughed at that one!

    At least @Dura_Ace would offer me a bath, even if not a cucumber.
    Picture of a cucumber and the Queen wasn't it? :innocent:

    Or was there a missing Oxford comma? :open_mouth:
    Not required.

    I always carry a picture of the Queen with me.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,092

    Dura_Ace said:

    Put simply: I don't trust those who are pushing air-source heat pumps; they all have an agenda.

    I'm not risking the comfort and wellbeing of my family and a warm home until I go round to a trusted friend or neighbours house (on a cold and dark night) and feel it for myself, including having a hot bath.

    That won't be at all weird.
    You've got a spare bedroom, haven't you?

    You could brush up on your diphthongs and DE&S acronym greatest hits, strip off the lycra, and get in with me whilst furiously beating yourself with a courgette and ranting at me about how much you despise Tories and women.
    And Ukrainians!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,139
    @LostPassword no, they are almost always Ukrainians now and, also, a few Macedonians who tend to be loud and overbearing and behave obnoxiously (they hate Bulgarians and the feeling is mutual).
  • StockyStocky Posts: 9,997
    Dura_Ace said:

    Put simply: I don't trust those who are pushing air-source heat pumps; they all have an agenda.

    I'm not risking the comfort and wellbeing of my family and a warm home until I go round to a trusted friend or neighbours house (on a cold and dark night) and feel it for myself, including having a hot bath.

    I now have an image in my head of a bloke of a certain age turning up on doorsteps in a frayed shorty terrycloth bathrobe and a towel over his arm, angrily demanding a bath. Not good.

    Who's in the bathroom?
    That angry bloke from next door. He took a picture of the old queen and a cucumber in with him.
    It did surprise me that Peep Show didn't get taken off air following the Jeremy in the sperm-bank story:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DniTb4vR1wk
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,240
    We will come out of this Ashes series never quite knowing which was the better team

    One of sporting history’s Might Have Beens

    Clearly England have played the more entertaining and aggressive cricket, but is that better?

    YES IT IS
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,357
    Leon said:

    We will come out of this Ashes series never quite knowing which was the better team

    One of sporting history’s Might Have Beens

    Clearly England have played the more entertaining and aggressive cricket, but is that better?

    YES IT IS

    Winning doesn't matter as long as you play more entertaining cricket?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,420
    Sandpit said:

    Peck said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ

    Quite the stat from Dominic Lawson in the Sunday Times:

    More than 5,500 customers have had their bank accounts closed by @NatWestGroup. None was able to talk to anyone at the bank about why it had happened. Some were told to "use a food bank"."

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1685739900396609536

    That sounds like the banks writing off bad debts - or a small proportion of them.

    Cue some propaganda about how we all need the banks, it's so difficult to get credit, it should be easier, everyone should be able to get credit, there's a difference between public service banking and casino banking, etc.

    I wonder which bank will hit the wall first this time. My money barterable items would be on Santander, Virgin, or Metro.

    Each of those three seems to run a brand aimed at ... shall we say people who haven't got much chance of paying back what they borrow. Their whole image seems best conveyed by a sign written in some crappy font, hanging down on one side because a nail has fallen out.
    Isn’t this mostly about current accounts, rather than borrowing accounts?
    Yes - accounts that provide no borrowing facility. No credit involved.

    Yet the banks refuse large numbers of people these basic accounts. And seem very reticent to discuss why.

    And people wonder why Monzo etc are racing ahead…
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,368
    Leon said:

    We will come out of this Ashes series never quite knowing which was the better team

    One of sporting history’s Might Have Beens

    Clearly England have played the more entertaining and aggressive cricket, but is that better?

    YES IT IS

    Weird series. England lacked cold clinical ruthlessness (and the ability to catch) when it counted. A case of what might have been.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,440
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    We will come out of this Ashes series never quite knowing which was the better team

    One of sporting history’s Might Have Beens

    Clearly England have played the more entertaining and aggressive cricket, but is that better?

    YES IT IS

    Winning doesn't matter as long as you play more entertaining cricket?
    The declaration on the first day of the first test was the big mistake.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,003

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Put simply: I don't trust those who are pushing air-source heat pumps; they all have an agenda.

    I'm not risking the comfort and wellbeing of my family and a warm home until I go round to a trusted friend or neighbours house (on a cold and dark night) and feel it for myself, including having a hot bath.

    That won't be at all weird.
    I find PBers increasingly weird. Like @JosiasJessop running his sweaty marathon right into the local pride March and then deciding to talk to all the gays in Nottingham. Awks

    I begin to wonder if I am the only sane PBer left. And I am a crazy alcoholic
    It's not weird to travel to the safest part of a country at war, spend all your time whilst there posting on here, and then throw a paddy when no-one gives you attention for taking your takeaway spritzer into the Anderson shelter whilst virtually nothing happens overhead?

    Bit weird.
    Well I did say that I’m a crazy alcoholic. Hence me drinking here in the “safest part of a war zone”

    And yet none of that is as weird as you going round to your neighbour’s house and demanding a hot bath so you can “test the efficacy of their air-source heat pumps”

    If I was your neighbour I’d move away soon after
    It's only weird because you're a Londoner who would look aghast at the idea of getting to know your neighbours or even having friends?

    Same problem you're having here as to why you're an Uber bore.
    Goodness me @Casino_Royale calm down!

    You are being very gently teased. Roll with it
    Well, likewise!

    I'm perfectly calm mate. Sitting here in shorts in the Thracian sun sinking beers. I'm quite enjoying myself actually!

    This was me yesterday at Sunny Beach, which - during the day at least- wasn't quite as chavvy as I'd been led to believe.


    You are a pint ( almost ) of lager then , more of this AI stuff.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,272
    Nigelb said:

    More radical free speech in X action.

    Twitter Threatens Legal Action Against Nonprofit That Tracks Hate Speech

    The Center for Countering Digital Hate said it had received a letter from X, Twitter’s parent company, accusing it of trying to hurt the social platform with its research.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/31/technology/twitter-x-center-for-countering-digital-hate.html

    Which rather supports my own belief, that Musk's takeover - and take down - of "Twitter" had little to do with (directly) making money, but instead EVERYTHING to do with propitiating Trump/Putin (also visa versa) for fun, influence and future profit.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,437
    edited July 2023
    Leon said:

    We will come out of this Ashes series never quite knowing which was the better team

    One of sporting history’s Might Have Beens

    Clearly England have played the more entertaining and aggressive cricket, but is that better?

    YES IT IS

    If they can get the outfield dry enough after it stops raining in the next 30 minutes or so, Smith might yet get an hour to prove otherwise.

    If it was England, we know they'd go full 20/20 mode and attempt to win it. Will Australia?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,440
    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    We will come out of this Ashes series never quite knowing which was the better team

    One of sporting history’s Might Have Beens

    Clearly England have played the more entertaining and aggressive cricket, but is that better?

    YES IT IS

    Weird series. England lacked cold clinical ruthlessness (and the ability to catch) when it counted. A case of what might have been.
    England are going to average far better than Australia due to the mahoosive total amassed in one innings at Old Trafford for the *checks notes* drawn test there. Other 3 matches have been closer.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,750
    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    At the risk of setting things off again...

    Amsterdam’s plan to remove 11,200 parking spaces from its streets by the end of 2025 is even more inspiring when we realize the kind of people-places that are possible where cars used to be. Example — #Amsterdam’s Elandsgracht between 2014 & 2019, via @schlijper’s great pics.
    https://twitter.com/BrentToderian/status/1685732963588476928

    Much prefer a red-brick new build with three parking spots and a plastic lawn, thank you very much.

    #voteconservative
    Also chucking this into the mix.

    Braess's paradox
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braess's_paradox
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,272
    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Put simply: I don't trust those who are pushing air-source heat pumps; they all have an agenda.

    I'm not risking the comfort and wellbeing of my family and a warm home until I go round to a trusted friend or neighbours house (on a cold and dark night) and feel it for myself, including having a hot bath.

    That won't be at all weird.
    I find PBers increasingly weird. Like @JosiasJessop running his sweaty marathon right into the local pride March and then deciding to talk to all the gays in Nottingham. Awks

    I begin to wonder if I am the only sane PBer left. And I am a crazy alcoholic
    It's not weird to travel to the safest part of a country at war, spend all your time whilst there posting on here, and then throw a paddy when no-one gives you attention for taking your takeaway spritzer into the Anderson shelter whilst virtually nothing happens overhead?

    Bit weird.
    Well I did say that I’m a crazy alcoholic. Hence me drinking here in the “safest part of a war zone”

    And yet none of that is as weird as you going round to your neighbour’s house and demanding a hot bath so you can “test the efficacy of their air-source heat pumps”

    If I was your neighbour I’d move away soon after
    Mrs DA just asked what I was laughing at. I thought about explaining but lied and said it was a cat on TikTok. She'd never understand what we have.
    PB = the love/hate that dare not speak its name.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,272
    Leon said:

    We will come out of this Ashes series never quite knowing which was the better team

    One of sporting history’s Might Have Beens

    Clearly England have played the more entertaining and aggressive cricket, but is that better?

    YES IT IS

    Yet another English "historian" writes yet another "history" with England as the "historic" winner?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,240

    Leon said:

    We will come out of this Ashes series never quite knowing which was the better team

    One of sporting history’s Might Have Beens

    Clearly England have played the more entertaining and aggressive cricket, but is that better?

    YES IT IS

    If they can get the outfield dry enough after it stops raining in the next 30 minutes or so, Smith might yet get an hour to prove otherwise.

    If it was England, we know they'd go full 20/20 mode and attempt to win it. Will Australia?
    Probably not
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,240
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    We will come out of this Ashes series never quite knowing which was the better team

    One of sporting history’s Might Have Beens

    Clearly England have played the more entertaining and aggressive cricket, but is that better?

    YES IT IS

    Winning doesn't matter as long as you play more entertaining cricket?
    Right now? With Test cricket on the edge of oblivion? I would actually say Yes

    Entertainment is more important. And besides, England have come PAINFULLY close to winning this series. Denied by rain at OT, could easily have won at Lord’s or Edgbaston

    If Test cricket has any future, England have shown where it must go. It’s that simple
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 17,445
    Leon said:

    We will come out of this Ashes series never quite knowing which was the better team

    One of sporting history’s Might Have Beens

    Clearly England have played the more entertaining and aggressive cricket, but is that better?

    YES IT IS

    They're filling time on TMS, but they did say something interesting, which is that they thought Australia were uncomfortable in this series because most of the time England had the initiative and were dictating the progress of the match, and Australia weren't used to being forced to be reactive.

    That, and putting Australia to the sword art Old Trafford, and I'm comfortable with saying England are the better team. Cummins played very well in the first two matches to squeak Australia to victory.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,240

    Leon said:

    We will come out of this Ashes series never quite knowing which was the better team

    One of sporting history’s Might Have Beens

    Clearly England have played the more entertaining and aggressive cricket, but is that better?

    YES IT IS

    They're filling time on TMS, but they did say something interesting, which is that they thought Australia were uncomfortable in this series because most of the time England had the initiative and were dictating the progress of the match, and Australia weren't used to being forced to be reactive.

    That, and putting Australia to the sword art Old Trafford, and I'm comfortable with saying England are the better team. Cummins played very well in the first two matches to squeak Australia to victory.
    Yes. England have been dominant for more sessions than Australia. That’s it in a nutshell

    Two very good teams who produced a wonderful series. Just a damn shame the weather blighted the last two games and prevented it becoming an all time classic
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,451
    edited July 2023
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    We will come out of this Ashes series never quite knowing which was the better team

    One of sporting history’s Might Have Beens

    Clearly England have played the more entertaining and aggressive cricket, but is that better?

    YES IT IS

    Winning doesn't matter as long as you play more entertaining cricket?
    Right now? With Test cricket on the edge of oblivion? I would actually say Yes

    Entertainment is more important. And besides, England have come PAINFULLY close to winning this series. Denied by rain at OT, could easily have won at Lord’s or Edgbaston

    If Test cricket has any future, England have shown where it must go. It’s that simple

    100% correct. England may well have saved test cricket. That is a lot more important than winning the Ashes.

    That said, for test cricket to be truly saved, it needs a strong West Indies.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,228
    Andy_JS said:

    When you think about it, the fact phones work - or used to work - during a power cut is a pretty clever bit of engineering, although they didn't think of it like that when they invented the system.

    I was in Manhattan in 2003 when there was the great blackout. My mobile phone - a Nokia - continued to be able to call England for about 48 hours, before its battery died. It was quite bizarre: not a light on in the whole city, but I could call home.
This discussion has been closed.