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Nadine’s going to have to put up with more Tweets like this – politicalbetting.com

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  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,930
    ydoethur said:

    TimS said:

    I still don't know what Bazball means.

    Even after looking it up.

    It is nothing more, nor less, than playing cricket with a complete absence of a fear of failure.
    It could have had a huge liberating effect on England players in the 1990s. That’s when the demons of self doubt had their strongest stranglehold on our players. No surprise the ones who still enjoyed some success then were the mentally tough who were most immune to criticism: Robin Smith, Thorpe and Hussain, Dominic Cork, Alec Stewart, Darren Gough.

    I remember someone writing about Mark Ramprakash, who probably epitomised the problem. In the nets and at county level the most talented stroke player of his generation, up there with Lara. But in England whites a rabbit in the headlights. Chris Lewis was another one, so was Graham Hick. We had some very talented players who just couldn’t deal with the mental pressures of test cricket.
    There is also a huge difference between country cricket and test cricket, especially in England. In England, slow dobbers are very useful due to the pitches and conditions. Graham Hick problem was he was great against that stuff, smashed it all round the ground, but then he got to test cricket and you got say Ambrose, Walsh, Bishop, Benjamin.....or Donald, Pollock, Kallis...you are getting 90mph freak show from every end for hours on end which is a totally different prospect.
    Interestingly Donald himself said the English batsman South Africa’s bowlers were most afraid of was Hick. Possibly because he thrashed them all round the Oval in Malcolm’s match of 1994 and scored 141 at I think it was Centurion.
    Yes, my memories are probably coloured by that first series against the West Indies.

    All of those cricketers I mentioned had their moments of course, otherwise they’d have been dropped soon after debut. Ramprakash scored some centuries. But we never saw his true abilities in tests (or indeed in limited overs which we didn’t grasp how best to play back then).
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,005

    The testimony of Chloe Cole to Congress is a significant moment in the pushback against transgender pseudoscience:

    https://twitter.com/ChoooCole/status/1684905740266303488

    "We need to stop telling 12-year-olds that they were born wrong, that they are right to reject their own bodies and feel uncomfortable with their own skin. We need to stop telling children that puberty is an option. That they can choose what kind of puberty they will go through just as they can choose what clothes to wear or music to listen to."

    For those of you who want to see the whole of the hearing, you can find it via C-Span or the site of the House of Representative Judiciary committee, a subcommittee of which (the "House Judiciary Subcommittee on the Constitution and Limited Government") held the hearing last week. Links are below The two videos start and end at slightly different points. I think the C-Span one is more complete but they are broadly the same. I don't know why they are different lengths (recesses? frame rate?)

    The C-span has a computer-generated transcript. The House one does not, but it's on YouTube and a transcript can be generated on the YouTube site (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ts0ESOMKUKU).
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    edited July 2023
    Sandpit said:

    TimS said:

    I still don't know what Bazball means.

    Even after looking it up.

    It is nothing more, nor less, than playing cricket with a complete absence of a fear of failure.
    It could have had a huge liberating effect on England players in the 1990s. That’s when the demons of self doubt had their strongest stranglehold on our players. No surprise the ones who still enjoyed some success then were the mentally tough who were most immune to criticism: Robin Smith, Thorpe and Hussain, Dominic Cork, Alec Stewart, Darren Gough.

    I remember someone writing about Mark Ramprakash, who probably epitomised the problem. In the nets and at county level the most talented stroke player of his generation, up there with Lara. But in England whites a rabbit in the headlights. Chris Lewis was another one, so was Graham Hick. We had some very talented players who just couldn’t deal with the mental pressures of test cricket.
    There is also a huge difference between country cricket and test cricket, especially in England. In England, slow dobbers are very useful due to the pitches and conditions. Graham Hick problem was he was great against that stuff, smashed it all round the ground, but then he got to test cricket and you got say Ambrose, Walsh, Bishop, Benjamin.....or Donald, Pollock, Kallis...you are getting 90mph freak show from every end for hours on end which is a totally different prospect.
    Those WI bowlers were astonishing back in the ‘80s and ‘90s.

    It’s been sad to see cricket’s decline in the Carribean nations since then, replaced mostly by Track & Field, and American sports that offer big money.
    The production line was just overflowing with fast bowlers....I had the "joys" of facing some of the ones who didn't quite make it as a teenager in the late 90s / early 2000s.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,754
    Cornish weather update: today has been a beautiful mostly sunny day, we've just spent four hours on the beach playing cricket, bodyboarding and reading. Back in the chalet now looking out over a beautiful turquoise sea. When the sun comes out I forgive the rainy days very quickly!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,282

    I still don't know what Bazball means.

    Even after looking it up.

    Brendon McCullum (Baz) is the England coach and he was famously very aggressive player. Since taking over England he has told all the players to effectively mimic his attacking style at all times, which is extremely rare in test cricket.
    Ah, so it's aggressive playing then?

    Thanks.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,748

    Sandpit said:

    Completely off topic, but commendable:

    The Oakland NAACP does something brave — and wise:

    "OAKLAND, Calif. – The Oakland NAACP has called on city leaders to declare a state of emergency due to rising crime, calling the situation a “crisis,” and has urged residents across the city to speak out against it.

    The group, alongside Bishop Bob Jackson of the Acts Full Gospel Church, issued the statement on Thursday, blasting both city and county officials, as well as social justice movements."
    source: https://www.ktvu.com/news/oakland-naacp-blasts-local-leaders-calls-for-state-of-emergency-due-to-crime

    Ever since I worked in a slum school on the west side of Chicago more than 50 years ago, I have known that most of the victims of black criminals are also black*. And that crime often causes poverty. But those are things you won’t hear said by the leftists on Martha’s Vineyard.

    (*That is true of other groups. According to reports I’ve seen, most of Bernie Madoff’s victims were other Jews. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that the Mafia mostly vitimizes Italians. And so on.)

    Cross posted at Patterico's Pontifications.

    And of course particularly with things like high retail crime, shops will just close, with means few jobs in those neighbours, which means more poverty, which means more crime, rinse and repeat. And we are already seeing it as the likes of Walmart exits completely from some cities.

    The laws put in place whereby steal less than $800-1000 bucks from a store and it is effectively a parking ticket has to be some of the most stupid laws ever thought up....and of course employees are not to try and stop this, otherwise they get sacked and the police, well they have been defunded and told they are all racist, so ain't going to rush there to issue the citation.
    Guess what happens when you defund the police, and elect useless state prosecutors who think it’s racist to charge people with theft?

    Commendable indeed from the NAACP, who see how things are on the streets, rather than how wealthy policymakers think they should be.
    And this cancer has spread outside of the traditional high crime areas / cities. Portland, was always a bit weird and wacky place, but safe and prosperous. Now downtown is like a scene from the Walking Day, and whenever the far left (and less so the far right) turn up and smash the place up, the moronic Mayor and local prosecutors, don't want to charge people because whatever -ist and historic oppression you want to choose.

    So businesses are just shutting up shop.
    Perhaps if the police could stop standing on the necks of people they arrest for petty crime, politicians might be more in favour of arrests for petty crime.

    Incompetently administered capital punishment in the street looks bad.
    In Portland they haven't been charging people for much more serious crimes than shoplifting.

    And of course the police officers responsible for administering capital punishment were correctly jailed. Despite the often touted claims that any young black unarmed man might get murdered by the police, the figures don't hold up. The numbers of individuals killed by the police is very high compared to say the UK, but it is armed criminals....lead to heavily armed police...lead to many more situations where its life and death decisions. And with the introduction of bodycams, police can't get away with anywhere near as much dodgy stuff as perhaps they did before.

    The issue of shoplifting not really being properly enforced has been on the books in some cities from before George Floyd and was causing trouble with organised gangs. But the word spreads and now it is a total disaster in quite a few US cities.
    Shoplifting is becoming a huge problem here too where it is unconnected with America's bizarre racial politics. Just this week the Co-op warned it might have to pull out of some areas.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66323140
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813

    I still don't know what Bazball means.

    Even after looking it up.

    Brendon McCullum (Baz) is the England coach and he was famously very aggressive player. Since taking over England he has told all the players to effectively mimic his attacking style at all times, which is extremely rare in test cricket.
    Ah, so it's aggressive playing then?

    Thanks.
    Well aggressive and taking risks, sometimes to the level of reckless abandon. Test cricket was traditionally all about batting for hours, slowly accumulating runs and not giving your wicket away. Bazball is we back you to play very aggressively, take risks and if it comes off score incredibly quickly and take the game away. If it doesn't come off, no recriminations, we go again.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,039
    Sandpit said:

    TimS said:

    I still don't know what Bazball means.

    Even after looking it up.

    It is nothing more, nor less, than playing cricket with a complete absence of a fear of failure.
    It could have had a huge liberating effect on England players in the 1990s. That’s when the demons of self doubt had their strongest stranglehold on our players. No surprise the ones who still enjoyed some success then were the mentally tough who were most immune to criticism: Robin Smith, Thorpe and Hussain, Dominic Cork, Alec Stewart, Darren Gough.

    I remember someone writing about Mark Ramprakash, who probably epitomised the problem. In the nets and at county level the most talented stroke player of his generation, up there with Lara. But in England whites a rabbit in the headlights. Chris Lewis was another one, so was Graham Hick. We had some very talented players who just couldn’t deal with the mental pressures of test cricket.
    There is also a huge difference between country cricket and test cricket, especially in England. In England, slow dobbers are very useful due to the pitches and conditions. Graham Hick problem was he was great against that stuff, smashed it all round the ground, but then he got to test cricket and you got say Ambrose, Walsh, Bishop, Benjamin.....or Donald, Pollock, Kallis...you are getting 90mph freak show from every end for hours on end which is a totally different prospect.
    Those WI bowlers were astonishing back in the ‘80s and ‘90s.

    It’s been sad to see cricket’s decline in the Carribean nations since then, replaced mostly by Track & Field, and American sports that offer big money.
    The irony is that there is now just as much money in cricket - via India - as there is in basketball and whatever. And given the Windies cultural affinity for cricket they’ve probably got a better chance of making it in cricket. So it doesn’t make sense even on the crudest financial grounds

    20/20 also suits the Windies style. Aggressive bowling and batting

    The IPL should set up their franchises on ten different West Indian islands. I’d watch that, in the sun
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,163

    I've just graduated from ballet school.

    I got a 2:2

    Not much pointe in that unless you jete to Moscow. But with you bad 'attitude' who knows what will be your next step!
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,798

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    I still don't know what Bazball means.

    Even after looking it up.

    It is nothing more, nor less, than playing cricket with a complete absence of a fear of failure.
    It could have had a huge liberating effect on England players in the 1990s. That’s when the demons of self doubt had their strongest stranglehold on our players. No surprise the ones who still enjoyed some success then were the mentally tough who were most immune to criticism: Robin Smith, Thorpe and Hussain, Dominic Cork, Alec Stewart, Darren Gough.

    I remember someone writing about Mark Ramprakash, who probably epitomised the problem. In the nets and at county level the most talented stroke player of his generation, up there with Lara. But in England whites a rabbit in the headlights. Chris Lewis was another one, so was Graham Hick. We had some very talented players who just couldn’t deal with the mental pressures of test cricket.
    It could also be usefully applied to the present generation of lavishly talented England footballers

    They have the skills to win major tournaments. They’ve shown it. All they lack is the last varnish of self confidence in attack. And maybe a different coach….

    I fear there is no such hope for England rugby. Just not very good, despite a couple of promising youngsters
    Football is a strange one, because they get extremely limited time together at international level.

    At club level, they play very complex tactical systems which enables players to show this self confidence. You see Man City training ground, its nuts, all these weird different size boxes painted onto the pitches, and players know when X move to this box, I move to that box, etc etc etc.

    International football in comparison, every nation now can put out a half decent starting 11, who are at very least well drilled to stop the opposition. But there isn't enough time for the likes of England to develop the sort of tactical systems that Man City or Liverpool use to break down say European teams with style.

    It is why for instance Belgium tried for past 10 years or so to play the same tactical systems all the way through the age groups. So that as they progressed they were already well drilled in them.
    Agree with all of that but on the last point, it also makes them predictable and easy to drill against. I really like Southgates mix of a couple of systems at a time, plus the focus on gains in set pieces, which can be coached in the run up to a tournament. What he gets wrong is substitutions and too much loyalty to key players.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,754

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    I still don't know what Bazball means.

    Even after looking it up.

    It is nothing more, nor less, than playing cricket with a complete absence of a fear of failure.
    It could have had a huge liberating effect on England players in the 1990s. That’s when the demons of self doubt had their strongest stranglehold on our players. No surprise the ones who still enjoyed some success then were the mentally tough who were most immune to criticism: Robin Smith, Thorpe and Hussain, Dominic Cork, Alec Stewart, Darren Gough.

    I remember someone writing about Mark Ramprakash, who probably epitomised the problem. In the nets and at county level the most talented stroke player of his generation, up there with Lara. But in England whites a rabbit in the headlights. Chris Lewis was another one, so was Graham Hick. We had some very talented players who just couldn’t deal with the mental pressures of test cricket.
    It could also be usefully applied to the present generation of lavishly talented England footballers

    They have the skills to win major tournaments. They’ve shown it. All they lack is the last varnish of self confidence in attack. And maybe a different coach….

    I fear there is no such hope for England rugby. Just not very good, despite a couple of promising youngsters
    Football is a strange one, because they get extremely limited time together at international level.

    At club level, they play very complex tactical systems which enables players to show this self confidence. You see Man City training ground, its nuts, all these weird different size boxes painted onto the pitches, and players know when X move to this box, I move to that box, etc etc etc.

    International football in comparison, every nation now can put out a half decent starting 11, who are at very least well drilled to stop the opposition. But there isn't enough time for the likes of England to develop the sort of tactical systems that Man City or Liverpool use to break down say European teams with style.

    It is why for instance Belgium tried for past 10 years or so to play the same tactical systems all the way through the age groups. So that as they progressed they were already well drilled in them.
    I'd say that the current England squad play with more self belief than any England team that I can remember, going back to the 1990 World Cup.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,275
    TimS said:

    I still don't know what Bazball means.

    Even after looking it up.

    It is nothing more, nor less, than playing cricket with a complete absence of a fear of failure.
    It could have had a huge liberating effect on England players in the 1990s. That’s when the demons of self doubt had their strongest stranglehold on our players. No surprise the ones who still enjoyed some success then were the mentally tough who were most immune to criticism: Robin Smith, Thorpe and Hussain, Dominic Cork, Alec Stewart, Darren Gough.

    I remember someone writing about Mark Ramprakash, who probably epitomised the problem. In the nets and at county level the most talented stroke player of his generation, up there with Lara. But in England whites a rabbit in the headlights. Chris Lewis was another one, so was Graham Hick. We had some very talented players who just couldn’t deal with the mental pressures of test cricket.
    I think we could all learn from the example. Look at Keir Starmer. A politician constipated by the crippling fear of losing an election that should be impossible to lose.

    I know that a lot of my life has been affected by fear about the consequences of my actions. Things always go better for me when I can trust myself to deal with those consequences, whatever they are, and simply do things.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,163
    The already very close result in the Spanish GE just got tighter with PP gaining a seat in Madrid from PSOE after the counting of the votes from Spaniards abroad.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,039

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    I still don't know what Bazball means.

    Even after looking it up.

    It is nothing more, nor less, than playing cricket with a complete absence of a fear of failure.
    It could have had a huge liberating effect on England players in the 1990s. That’s when the demons of self doubt had their strongest stranglehold on our players. No surprise the ones who still enjoyed some success then were the mentally tough who were most immune to criticism: Robin Smith, Thorpe and Hussain, Dominic Cork, Alec Stewart, Darren Gough.

    I remember someone writing about Mark Ramprakash, who probably epitomised the problem. In the nets and at county level the most talented stroke player of his generation, up there with Lara. But in England whites a rabbit in the headlights. Chris Lewis was another one, so was Graham Hick. We had some very talented players who just couldn’t deal with the mental pressures of test cricket.
    It could also be usefully applied to the present generation of lavishly talented England footballers

    They have the skills to win major tournaments. They’ve shown it. All they lack is the last varnish of self confidence in attack. And maybe a different coach….

    I fear there is no such hope for England rugby. Just not very good, despite a couple of promising youngsters
    Football is a strange one, because they get extremely limited time together at international level.

    At club level, they play very complex tactical systems which enables players to show this self confidence. You see Man City training ground, its nuts, all these weird different size boxes painted onto the pitches, and players know when X move to this box, I move to that box, etc etc etc.

    International football in comparison, every nation now can put out a half decent starting 11, who are at very least well drilled to stop the opposition. But there isn't enough time for the likes of England to develop the sort of tactical systems that Man City or Liverpool use to break down say European teams with style.

    It is why for instance Belgium tried for past 10 years or so to play the same tactical systems all the way through the age groups. So that as they progressed they were already well drilled in them.
    I'd say that the current England squad play with more self belief than any England team that I can remember, going back to the 1990 World Cup.
    But they didn’t in the euros final. Scored once and shut the shop. Or tried to

    They should have gone all-out for the 2nd killer goal That’s bazball
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,798

    Sandpit said:

    Completely off topic, but commendable:

    The Oakland NAACP does something brave — and wise:

    "OAKLAND, Calif. – The Oakland NAACP has called on city leaders to declare a state of emergency due to rising crime, calling the situation a “crisis,” and has urged residents across the city to speak out against it.

    The group, alongside Bishop Bob Jackson of the Acts Full Gospel Church, issued the statement on Thursday, blasting both city and county officials, as well as social justice movements."
    source: https://www.ktvu.com/news/oakland-naacp-blasts-local-leaders-calls-for-state-of-emergency-due-to-crime

    Ever since I worked in a slum school on the west side of Chicago more than 50 years ago, I have known that most of the victims of black criminals are also black*. And that crime often causes poverty. But those are things you won’t hear said by the leftists on Martha’s Vineyard.

    (*That is true of other groups. According to reports I’ve seen, most of Bernie Madoff’s victims were other Jews. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that the Mafia mostly vitimizes Italians. And so on.)

    Cross posted at Patterico's Pontifications.

    And of course particularly with things like high retail crime, shops will just close, with means few jobs in those neighbours, which means more poverty, which means more crime, rinse and repeat. And we are already seeing it as the likes of Walmart exits completely from some cities.

    The laws put in place whereby steal less than $800-1000 bucks from a store and it is effectively a parking ticket has to be some of the most stupid laws ever thought up....and of course employees are not to try and stop this, otherwise they get sacked and the police, well they have been defunded and told they are all racist, so ain't going to rush there to issue the citation.
    Guess what happens when you defund the police, and elect useless state prosecutors who think it’s racist to charge people with theft?

    Commendable indeed from the NAACP, who see how things are on the streets, rather than how wealthy policymakers think they should be.
    And this cancer has spread outside of the traditional high crime areas / cities. Portland, was always a bit weird and wacky place, but safe and prosperous. Now downtown is like a scene from the Walking Day, and whenever the far left (and less so the far right) turn up and smash the place up, the moronic Mayor and local prosecutors, don't want to charge people because whatever -ist and historic oppression you want to choose.

    So businesses are just shutting up shop.
    Perhaps if the police could stop standing on the necks of people they arrest for petty crime, politicians might be more in favour of arrests for petty crime.

    Incompetently administered capital punishment in the street looks bad.
    In Portland they haven't been charging people for much more serious crimes than shoplifting.

    And of course the police officers responsible for administering capital punishment were correctly jailed. Despite the often touted claims that any young black unarmed man might get murdered by the police, the figures don't hold up. The numbers of individuals killed by the police is very high compared to say the UK, but it is armed criminals....lead to heavily armed police...lead to many more situations where its life and death decisions. And with the introduction of bodycams, police can't get away with anywhere near as much dodgy stuff as perhaps they did before.

    The issue of shoplifting not really being properly enforced has been on the books in some cities from before George Floyd and was causing trouble with organised gangs. But the word spreads and now it is a total disaster in quite a few US cities.
    Shoplifting is becoming a huge problem here too where it is unconnected with America's bizarre racial politics. Just this week the Co-op warned it might have to pull out of some areas.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66323140
    Try using, and paying for, cashiers perhaps?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    edited July 2023

    Sandpit said:

    Completely off topic, but commendable:

    The Oakland NAACP does something brave — and wise:

    "OAKLAND, Calif. – The Oakland NAACP has called on city leaders to declare a state of emergency due to rising crime, calling the situation a “crisis,” and has urged residents across the city to speak out against it.

    The group, alongside Bishop Bob Jackson of the Acts Full Gospel Church, issued the statement on Thursday, blasting both city and county officials, as well as social justice movements."
    source: https://www.ktvu.com/news/oakland-naacp-blasts-local-leaders-calls-for-state-of-emergency-due-to-crime

    Ever since I worked in a slum school on the west side of Chicago more than 50 years ago, I have known that most of the victims of black criminals are also black*. And that crime often causes poverty. But those are things you won’t hear said by the leftists on Martha’s Vineyard.

    (*That is true of other groups. According to reports I’ve seen, most of Bernie Madoff’s victims were other Jews. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that the Mafia mostly vitimizes Italians. And so on.)

    Cross posted at Patterico's Pontifications.

    And of course particularly with things like high retail crime, shops will just close, with means few jobs in those neighbours, which means more poverty, which means more crime, rinse and repeat. And we are already seeing it as the likes of Walmart exits completely from some cities.

    The laws put in place whereby steal less than $800-1000 bucks from a store and it is effectively a parking ticket has to be some of the most stupid laws ever thought up....and of course employees are not to try and stop this, otherwise they get sacked and the police, well they have been defunded and told they are all racist, so ain't going to rush there to issue the citation.
    Guess what happens when you defund the police, and elect useless state prosecutors who think it’s racist to charge people with theft?

    Commendable indeed from the NAACP, who see how things are on the streets, rather than how wealthy policymakers think they should be.
    And this cancer has spread outside of the traditional high crime areas / cities. Portland, was always a bit weird and wacky place, but safe and prosperous. Now downtown is like a scene from the Walking Day, and whenever the far left (and less so the far right) turn up and smash the place up, the moronic Mayor and local prosecutors, don't want to charge people because whatever -ist and historic oppression you want to choose.

    So businesses are just shutting up shop.
    Perhaps if the police could stop standing on the necks of people they arrest for petty crime, politicians might be more in favour of arrests for petty crime.

    Incompetently administered capital punishment in the street looks bad.
    In Portland they haven't been charging people for much more serious crimes than shoplifting.

    And of course the police officers responsible for administering capital punishment were correctly jailed. Despite the often touted claims that any young black unarmed man might get murdered by the police, the figures don't hold up. The numbers of individuals killed by the police is very high compared to say the UK, but it is armed criminals....lead to heavily armed police...lead to many more situations where its life and death decisions. And with the introduction of bodycams, police can't get away with anywhere near as much dodgy stuff as perhaps they did before.

    The issue of shoplifting not really being properly enforced has been on the books in some cities from before George Floyd and was causing trouble with organised gangs. But the word spreads and now it is a total disaster in quite a few US cities.
    Shoplifting is becoming a huge problem here too where it is unconnected with America's bizarre racial politics. Just this week the Co-op warned it might have to pull out of some areas.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66323140
    Yes I saw that report. Its also fairly common to smash and grab things like mobiles. But we aren't anywhere near the level of some of these US cities, where it was organised gangs who would hit a store, now its just every hour of every day, people come in and walk out with stuff, such they are putting chains across frozen cabinets to stop people just helping themselves to a tub of ice cream.

    The UK, particularly London, has a bit issue with phone muggings and moped thefts (to be used in phone muggings and smash and grab).
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,509
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    TimS said:

    I still don't know what Bazball means.

    Even after looking it up.

    It is nothing more, nor less, than playing cricket with a complete absence of a fear of failure.
    It could have had a huge liberating effect on England players in the 1990s. That’s when the demons of self doubt had their strongest stranglehold on our players. No surprise the ones who still enjoyed some success then were the mentally tough who were most immune to criticism: Robin Smith, Thorpe and Hussain, Dominic Cork, Alec Stewart, Darren Gough.

    I remember someone writing about Mark Ramprakash, who probably epitomised the problem. In the nets and at county level the most talented stroke player of his generation, up there with Lara. But in England whites a rabbit in the headlights. Chris Lewis was another one, so was Graham Hick. We had some very talented players who just couldn’t deal with the mental pressures of test cricket.
    There is also a huge difference between country cricket and test cricket, especially in England. In England, slow dobbers are very useful due to the pitches and conditions. Graham Hick problem was he was great against that stuff, smashed it all round the ground, but then he got to test cricket and you got say Ambrose, Walsh, Bishop, Benjamin.....or Donald, Pollock, Kallis...you are getting 90mph freak show from every end for hours on end which is a totally different prospect.
    Those WI bowlers were astonishing back in the ‘80s and ‘90s.

    It’s been sad to see cricket’s decline in the Carribean nations since then, replaced mostly by Track & Field, and American sports that offer big money.
    The irony is that there is now just as much money in cricket - via India - as there is in basketball and whatever. And given the Windies cultural affinity for cricket they’ve probably got a better chance of making it in cricket. So it doesn’t make sense even on the crudest financial grounds

    20/20 also suits the Windies style. Aggressive bowling and batting

    The IPL should set up their franchises on ten different West Indian islands. I’d watch that, in the sun
    Great idea. Do it as a winter series in January, I’d be well up for a Carribean tour with the Barmy Army.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    edited July 2023
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    TimS said:

    I still don't know what Bazball means.

    Even after looking it up.

    It is nothing more, nor less, than playing cricket with a complete absence of a fear of failure.
    It could have had a huge liberating effect on England players in the 1990s. That’s when the demons of self doubt had their strongest stranglehold on our players. No surprise the ones who still enjoyed some success then were the mentally tough who were most immune to criticism: Robin Smith, Thorpe and Hussain, Dominic Cork, Alec Stewart, Darren Gough.

    I remember someone writing about Mark Ramprakash, who probably epitomised the problem. In the nets and at county level the most talented stroke player of his generation, up there with Lara. But in England whites a rabbit in the headlights. Chris Lewis was another one, so was Graham Hick. We had some very talented players who just couldn’t deal with the mental pressures of test cricket.
    There is also a huge difference between country cricket and test cricket, especially in England. In England, slow dobbers are very useful due to the pitches and conditions. Graham Hick problem was he was great against that stuff, smashed it all round the ground, but then he got to test cricket and you got say Ambrose, Walsh, Bishop, Benjamin.....or Donald, Pollock, Kallis...you are getting 90mph freak show from every end for hours on end which is a totally different prospect.
    Those WI bowlers were astonishing back in the ‘80s and ‘90s.

    It’s been sad to see cricket’s decline in the Carribean nations since then, replaced mostly by Track & Field, and American sports that offer big money.
    The irony is that there is now just as much money in cricket - via India - as there is in basketball and whatever. And given the Windies cultural affinity for cricket they’ve probably got a better chance of making it in cricket. So it doesn’t make sense even on the crudest financial grounds

    20/20 also suits the Windies style. Aggressive bowling and batting

    The IPL should set up their franchises on ten different West Indian islands. I’d watch that, in the sun
    And of course all this money, the Indians setting up T20 leagues around the world and willing to pump money into successful leagues....there was probably an opportunity to try and repeat some of the EPLs type success, but and England / Wales Cricket board, no we are going to play our own game, "The Hundred"...absolute morons.

    Its like if the EPL setup and said no we are going to play 9 aside football with totally different rules.....

    Actually worse, we are going to play one league with 11 a aside, on rainy Tuesdays in December then play the 9 aside game on Saturday / Sundays in spring and summer.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,039
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    TimS said:

    I still don't know what Bazball means.

    Even after looking it up.

    It is nothing more, nor less, than playing cricket with a complete absence of a fear of failure.
    It could have had a huge liberating effect on England players in the 1990s. That’s when the demons of self doubt had their strongest stranglehold on our players. No surprise the ones who still enjoyed some success then were the mentally tough who were most immune to criticism: Robin Smith, Thorpe and Hussain, Dominic Cork, Alec Stewart, Darren Gough.

    I remember someone writing about Mark Ramprakash, who probably epitomised the problem. In the nets and at county level the most talented stroke player of his generation, up there with Lara. But in England whites a rabbit in the headlights. Chris Lewis was another one, so was Graham Hick. We had some very talented players who just couldn’t deal with the mental pressures of test cricket.
    There is also a huge difference between country cricket and test cricket, especially in England. In England, slow dobbers are very useful due to the pitches and conditions. Graham Hick problem was he was great against that stuff, smashed it all round the ground, but then he got to test cricket and you got say Ambrose, Walsh, Bishop, Benjamin.....or Donald, Pollock, Kallis...you are getting 90mph freak show from every end for hours on end which is a totally different prospect.
    Those WI bowlers were astonishing back in the ‘80s and ‘90s.

    It’s been sad to see cricket’s decline in the Carribean nations since then, replaced mostly by Track & Field, and American sports that offer big money.
    The irony is that there is now just as much money in cricket - via India - as there is in basketball and whatever. And given the Windies cultural affinity for cricket they’ve probably got a better chance of making it in cricket. So it doesn’t make sense even on the crudest financial grounds

    20/20 also suits the Windies style. Aggressive bowling and batting

    The IPL should set up their franchises on ten different West Indian islands. I’d watch that, in the sun
    Great idea. Do it as a winter series in January, I’d be well up for a Carribean tour with the Barmy Army.
    Likewise. It would be a massive money spinner for tourism

    God that’s a genius idea. I shall write to Narendra Modi
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,483
    felix said:

    The already very close result in the Spanish GE just got tighter with PP gaining a seat in Madrid from PSOE after the counting of the votes from Spaniards abroad.

    Have they added the overseas votes so far? I know it doesn't usually change any seats.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,313
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    TimS said:

    I still don't know what Bazball means.

    Even after looking it up.

    It is nothing more, nor less, than playing cricket with a complete absence of a fear of failure.
    It could have had a huge liberating effect on England players in the 1990s. That’s when the demons of self doubt had their strongest stranglehold on our players. No surprise the ones who still enjoyed some success then were the mentally tough who were most immune to criticism: Robin Smith, Thorpe and Hussain, Dominic Cork, Alec Stewart, Darren Gough.

    I remember someone writing about Mark Ramprakash, who probably epitomised the problem. In the nets and at county level the most talented stroke player of his generation, up there with Lara. But in England whites a rabbit in the headlights. Chris Lewis was another one, so was Graham Hick. We had some very talented players who just couldn’t deal with the mental pressures of test cricket.
    There is also a huge difference between country cricket and test cricket, especially in England. In England, slow dobbers are very useful due to the pitches and conditions. Graham Hick problem was he was great against that stuff, smashed it all round the ground, but then he got to test cricket and you got say Ambrose, Walsh, Bishop, Benjamin.....or Donald, Pollock, Kallis...you are getting 90mph freak show from every end for hours on end which is a totally different prospect.
    Those WI bowlers were astonishing back in the ‘80s and ‘90s.

    It’s been sad to see cricket’s decline in the Carribean nations since then, replaced mostly by Track & Field, and American sports that offer big money.
    The irony is that there is now just as much money in cricket - via India - as there is in basketball and whatever. And given the Windies cultural affinity for cricket they’ve probably got a better chance of making it in cricket. So it doesn’t make sense even on the crudest financial grounds

    20/20 also suits the Windies style. Aggressive bowling and batting

    The IPL should set up their franchises on ten different West Indian islands. I’d watch that, in the sun
    Great idea. Do it as a winter series in January, I’d be well up for a Carribean tour with the Barmy Army.
    Merge the IPL and the CPL.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,039
    THE ST LUCIA SIZZLERS

    THE TOBAGO TORNADOES

    THE BARBADOS BUCCANEERS

    Do it! What larks

    That would generate far more money for the West Indies in tourism and sport and everything than any amount of tedious basketball, or track and field
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,048

    Sandpit said:

    Completely off topic, but commendable:

    The Oakland NAACP does something brave — and wise:

    "OAKLAND, Calif. – The Oakland NAACP has called on city leaders to declare a state of emergency due to rising crime, calling the situation a “crisis,” and has urged residents across the city to speak out against it.

    The group, alongside Bishop Bob Jackson of the Acts Full Gospel Church, issued the statement on Thursday, blasting both city and county officials, as well as social justice movements."
    source: https://www.ktvu.com/news/oakland-naacp-blasts-local-leaders-calls-for-state-of-emergency-due-to-crime

    Ever since I worked in a slum school on the west side of Chicago more than 50 years ago, I have known that most of the victims of black criminals are also black*. And that crime often causes poverty. But those are things you won’t hear said by the leftists on Martha’s Vineyard.

    (*That is true of other groups. According to reports I’ve seen, most of Bernie Madoff’s victims were other Jews. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that the Mafia mostly vitimizes Italians. And so on.)

    Cross posted at Patterico's Pontifications.

    And of course particularly with things like high retail crime, shops will just close, with means few jobs in those neighbours, which means more poverty, which means more crime, rinse and repeat. And we are already seeing it as the likes of Walmart exits completely from some cities.

    The laws put in place whereby steal less than $800-1000 bucks from a store and it is effectively a parking ticket has to be some of the most stupid laws ever thought up....and of course employees are not to try and stop this, otherwise they get sacked and the police, well they have been defunded and told they are all racist, so ain't going to rush there to issue the citation.
    Guess what happens when you defund the police, and elect useless state prosecutors who think it’s racist to charge people with theft?

    Commendable indeed from the NAACP, who see how things are on the streets, rather than how wealthy policymakers think they should be.
    And this cancer has spread outside of the traditional high crime areas / cities. Portland, was always a bit weird and wacky place, but safe and prosperous. Now downtown is like a scene from the Walking Day, and whenever the far left (and less so the far right) turn up and smash the place up, the moronic Mayor and local prosecutors, don't want to charge people because whatever -ist and historic oppression you want to choose.

    So businesses are just shutting up shop.
    Perhaps if the police could stop standing on the necks of people they arrest for petty crime, politicians might be more in favour of arrests for petty crime.

    Incompetently administered capital punishment in the stree

    Sandpit said:

    Completely off topic, but commendable:

    The Oakland NAACP does something brave — and wise:

    "OAKLAND, Calif. – The Oakland NAACP has called on city leaders to declare a state of emergency due to rising crime, calling the situation a “crisis,” and has urged residents across the city to speak out against it.

    The group, alongside Bishop Bob Jackson of the Acts Full Gospel Church, issued the statement on Thursday, blasting both city and county officials, as well as social justice movements."
    source: https://www.ktvu.com/news/oakland-naacp-blasts-local-leaders-calls-for-state-of-emergency-due-to-crime

    Ever since I worked in a slum school on the west side of Chicago more than 50 years ago, I have known that most of the victims of black criminals are also black*. And that crime often causes poverty. But those are things you won’t hear said by the leftists on Martha’s Vineyard.

    (*That is true of other groups. According to reports I’ve seen, most of Bernie Madoff’s victims were other Jews. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that the Mafia mostly vitimizes Italians. And so on.)

    Cross posted at Patterico's Pontifications.

    And of course particularly with things like high retail crime, shops will just close, with means few jobs in those neighbours, which means more poverty, which means more crime, rinse and repeat. And we are already seeing it as the likes of Walmart exits completely from some cities.

    The laws put in place whereby steal less than $800-1000 bucks from a store and it is effectively a parking ticket has to be some of the most stupid laws ever thought up....and of course employees are not to try and stop this, otherwise they get sacked and the police, well they have been defunded and told they are all racist, so ain't going to rush there to issue the citation.
    Guess what happens when you defund the police, and elect useless state prosecutors who think it’s racist to charge people with theft?

    Commendable indeed from the NAACP, who see how things are on the streets, rather than how wealthy policymakers think they should be.
    And this cancer has spread outside of the traditional high crime areas / cities. Portland, was always a bit weird and wacky place, but safe and prosperous. Now downtown is like a scene from the Walking Day, and whenever the far left (and less so the far right) turn up and smash the place up, the moronic Mayor and local prosecutors, don't want to charge people because whatever -ist and historic oppression you want to choose.

    So businesses are just shutting up shop.
    Perhaps if the police could stop standing on the necks of people they arrest for petty crime, politicians might be more in favour of arrests for petty crime.

    Incompetently administered capital punishment in the street looks bad.
    In Portland they haven't been charging people for much more serious crimes than shoplifting.

    And of course the police officers responsible for administering capital punishment were correctly jailed. Despite the often touted claims that any young black unarmed man might get murdered by the police, the figures don't hold up. The numbers of individuals killed by the police is very high compared to say the UK, but it is armed criminals....lead to heavily armed police...lead to many more situations where its life and death decisions. And with the introduction of bodycams, police can't get away with anywhere near as much dodgy stuff as perhaps they did before.

    The issue of shoplifting not really being properly enforced has been on the books in some cities from before George Floyd and was causing trouble with organised gangs. But the word spreads and now it is a total disaster in quite a few US cities.
    Shoplifting is becoming a huge problem here too where it is unconnected with America's bizarre racial politics. Just this week the Co-op warned it might have to pull out of some areas.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66323140
    The reason that the police are doing nothing about shop lifting is related - they see little upside in arresting Da Yuth, a chance of being stabbed, a claim of racism and released on bail as a cherry on the pie.

    Bit like not cracking down on the patently illegal electric bikes or the building sites which are visibly breaking the law.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,275

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    TimS said:

    I still don't know what Bazball means.

    Even after looking it up.

    It is nothing more, nor less, than playing cricket with a complete absence of a fear of failure.
    It could have had a huge liberating effect on England players in the 1990s. That’s when the demons of self doubt had their strongest stranglehold on our players. No surprise the ones who still enjoyed some success then were the mentally tough who were most immune to criticism: Robin Smith, Thorpe and Hussain, Dominic Cork, Alec Stewart, Darren Gough.

    I remember someone writing about Mark Ramprakash, who probably epitomised the problem. In the nets and at county level the most talented stroke player of his generation, up there with Lara. But in England whites a rabbit in the headlights. Chris Lewis was another one, so was Graham Hick. We had some very talented players who just couldn’t deal with the mental pressures of test cricket.
    There is also a huge difference between country cricket and test cricket, especially in England. In England, slow dobbers are very useful due to the pitches and conditions. Graham Hick problem was he was great against that stuff, smashed it all round the ground, but then he got to test cricket and you got say Ambrose, Walsh, Bishop, Benjamin.....or Donald, Pollock, Kallis...you are getting 90mph freak show from every end for hours on end which is a totally different prospect.
    Those WI bowlers were astonishing back in the ‘80s and ‘90s.

    It’s been sad to see cricket’s decline in the Carribean nations since then, replaced mostly by Track & Field, and American sports that offer big money.
    The irony is that there is now just as much money in cricket - via India - as there is in basketball and whatever. And given the Windies cultural affinity for cricket they’ve probably got a better chance of making it in cricket. So it doesn’t make sense even on the crudest financial grounds

    20/20 also suits the Windies style. Aggressive bowling and batting

    The IPL should set up their franchises on ten different West Indian islands. I’d watch that, in the sun
    And of course all this money, the Indians setting up T20 leagues around the world and willing to pump money into successful leagues....there was probably an opportunity to try and repeat some of the EPLs type success, but and England / Wales Cricket board, no we are going to play our own game, "The Hundred"...absolute morons.

    Its like if the EPL setup and said no we are going to play 9 aside football with totally different rules.....
    And the Hundred is also partly why, after this match, there's no Test cricket for nearly four months, until the end of November. I think there's also some ICC limited overs tournament - the 50-over world cup, perhaps.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,275
    Score!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,509
    Bazball 50 for Root, off 42 balls!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,081
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    I still don't know what Bazball means.

    Even after looking it up.

    It is nothing more, nor less, than playing cricket with a complete absence of a fear of failure.
    It could have had a huge liberating effect on England players in the 1990s. That’s when the demons of self doubt had their strongest stranglehold on our players. No surprise the ones who still enjoyed some success then were the mentally tough who were most immune to criticism: Robin Smith, Thorpe and Hussain, Dominic Cork, Alec Stewart, Darren Gough.

    I remember someone writing about Mark Ramprakash, who probably epitomised the problem. In the nets and at county level the most talented stroke player of his generation, up there with Lara. But in England whites a rabbit in the headlights. Chris Lewis was another one, so was Graham Hick. We had some very talented players who just couldn’t deal with the mental pressures of test cricket.
    It could also be usefully applied to the present generation of lavishly talented England footballers

    They have the skills to win major tournaments. They’ve shown it. All they lack is the last varnish of self confidence in attack. And maybe a different coach….

    I fear there is no such hope for England rugby. Just not very good, despite a couple of promising youngsters
    Football is a strange one, because they get extremely limited time together at international level.

    At club level, they play very complex tactical systems which enables players to show this self confidence. You see Man City training ground, its nuts, all these weird different size boxes painted onto the pitches, and players know when X move to this box, I move to that box, etc etc etc.

    International football in comparison, every nation now can put out a half decent starting 11, who are at very least well drilled to stop the opposition. But there isn't enough time for the likes of England to develop the sort of tactical systems that Man City or Liverpool use to break down say European teams with style.

    It is why for instance Belgium tried for past 10 years or so to play the same tactical systems all the way through the age groups. So that as they progressed they were already well drilled in them.
    I'd say that the current England squad play with more self belief than any England team that I can remember, going back to the 1990 World Cup.
    But they didn’t in the euros final. Scored once and shut the shop. Or tried to

    They should have gone all-out for the 2nd killer goal That’s bazball
    Better than before though. They used to be half paralyzed by fear. It used to drive me nuts. 'Just forget results, concentrate on performance, enjoy playing, don't worry about losing' I used to shout (at the players, at the manager, when they appeared on the telly) ... 'things will never improve until you do'.

    They did listen eventually - to some extent anyway.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,483
    Stokes out.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,313
    Bugger.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    edited July 2023

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    TimS said:

    I still don't know what Bazball means.

    Even after looking it up.

    It is nothing more, nor less, than playing cricket with a complete absence of a fear of failure.
    It could have had a huge liberating effect on England players in the 1990s. That’s when the demons of self doubt had their strongest stranglehold on our players. No surprise the ones who still enjoyed some success then were the mentally tough who were most immune to criticism: Robin Smith, Thorpe and Hussain, Dominic Cork, Alec Stewart, Darren Gough.

    I remember someone writing about Mark Ramprakash, who probably epitomised the problem. In the nets and at county level the most talented stroke player of his generation, up there with Lara. But in England whites a rabbit in the headlights. Chris Lewis was another one, so was Graham Hick. We had some very talented players who just couldn’t deal with the mental pressures of test cricket.
    There is also a huge difference between country cricket and test cricket, especially in England. In England, slow dobbers are very useful due to the pitches and conditions. Graham Hick problem was he was great against that stuff, smashed it all round the ground, but then he got to test cricket and you got say Ambrose, Walsh, Bishop, Benjamin.....or Donald, Pollock, Kallis...you are getting 90mph freak show from every end for hours on end which is a totally different prospect.
    Those WI bowlers were astonishing back in the ‘80s and ‘90s.

    It’s been sad to see cricket’s decline in the Carribean nations since then, replaced mostly by Track & Field, and American sports that offer big money.
    The irony is that there is now just as much money in cricket - via India - as there is in basketball and whatever. And given the Windies cultural affinity for cricket they’ve probably got a better chance of making it in cricket. So it doesn’t make sense even on the crudest financial grounds

    20/20 also suits the Windies style. Aggressive bowling and batting

    The IPL should set up their franchises on ten different West Indian islands. I’d watch that, in the sun
    And of course all this money, the Indians setting up T20 leagues around the world and willing to pump money into successful leagues....there was probably an opportunity to try and repeat some of the EPLs type success, but and England / Wales Cricket board, no we are going to play our own game, "The Hundred"...absolute morons.

    Its like if the EPL setup and said no we are going to play 9 aside football with totally different rules.....
    And the Hundred is also partly why, after this match, there's no Test cricket for nearly four months, until the end of November. I think there's also some ICC limited overs tournament - the 50-over world cup, perhaps.
    Apparently all the England players will be assess to see if they are fit for Hundred. Stokes is definitely not playing, I wouldn't be surprised if a number of crucial ODI players get wrapped in cotton wool until World Cup.

    So it may well be come and watch a load of players you never heard of play the stupid game nobody else in the world plays.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,039

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    TimS said:

    I still don't know what Bazball means.

    Even after looking it up.

    It is nothing more, nor less, than playing cricket with a complete absence of a fear of failure.
    It could have had a huge liberating effect on England players in the 1990s. That’s when the demons of self doubt had their strongest stranglehold on our players. No surprise the ones who still enjoyed some success then were the mentally tough who were most immune to criticism: Robin Smith, Thorpe and Hussain, Dominic Cork, Alec Stewart, Darren Gough.

    I remember someone writing about Mark Ramprakash, who probably epitomised the problem. In the nets and at county level the most talented stroke player of his generation, up there with Lara. But in England whites a rabbit in the headlights. Chris Lewis was another one, so was Graham Hick. We had some very talented players who just couldn’t deal with the mental pressures of test cricket.
    There is also a huge difference between country cricket and test cricket, especially in England. In England, slow dobbers are very useful due to the pitches and conditions. Graham Hick problem was he was great against that stuff, smashed it all round the ground, but then he got to test cricket and you got say Ambrose, Walsh, Bishop, Benjamin.....or Donald, Pollock, Kallis...you are getting 90mph freak show from every end for hours on end which is a totally different prospect.
    Those WI bowlers were astonishing back in the ‘80s and ‘90s.

    It’s been sad to see cricket’s decline in the Carribean nations since then, replaced mostly by Track & Field, and American sports that offer big money.
    The irony is that there is now just as much money in cricket - via India - as there is in basketball and whatever. And given the Windies cultural affinity for cricket they’ve probably got a better chance of making it in cricket. So it doesn’t make sense even on the crudest financial grounds

    20/20 also suits the Windies style. Aggressive bowling and batting

    The IPL should set up their franchises on ten different West Indian islands. I’d watch that, in the sun
    And of course all this money, the Indians setting up T20 leagues around the world and willing to pump money into successful leagues....there was probably an opportunity to try and repeat some of the EPLs type success, but and England / Wales Cricket board, no we are going to play our own game, "The Hundred"...absolute morons.

    Its like if the EPL setup and said no we are going to play 9 aside football with totally different rules.....

    Actually worse, we are going to play one league with 11 a aside, on rainy Tuesdays in December then play the 9 aside game on Saturday / Sundays in spring and summer.
    And we actually invented T20! Derrrrr

    The Hundred was so bizarre

    Anyway we are where we are. Cricket is making lots of money. Which is good

    There should be 4 or 5 T20 leagues in different places played at different times. India, England, Windies, Oz, one more?

    The rest of the time international cricket and the odd month off
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    edited July 2023
    Disappointing Stokes it out, but the score is rattling on, 213 off 40 overs. Australia would still be only be on 60-70, the way they played yesterday.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,313

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    TimS said:

    I still don't know what Bazball means.

    Even after looking it up.

    It is nothing more, nor less, than playing cricket with a complete absence of a fear of failure.
    It could have had a huge liberating effect on England players in the 1990s. That’s when the demons of self doubt had their strongest stranglehold on our players. No surprise the ones who still enjoyed some success then were the mentally tough who were most immune to criticism: Robin Smith, Thorpe and Hussain, Dominic Cork, Alec Stewart, Darren Gough.

    I remember someone writing about Mark Ramprakash, who probably epitomised the problem. In the nets and at county level the most talented stroke player of his generation, up there with Lara. But in England whites a rabbit in the headlights. Chris Lewis was another one, so was Graham Hick. We had some very talented players who just couldn’t deal with the mental pressures of test cricket.
    There is also a huge difference between country cricket and test cricket, especially in England. In England, slow dobbers are very useful due to the pitches and conditions. Graham Hick problem was he was great against that stuff, smashed it all round the ground, but then he got to test cricket and you got say Ambrose, Walsh, Bishop, Benjamin.....or Donald, Pollock, Kallis...you are getting 90mph freak show from every end for hours on end which is a totally different prospect.
    Those WI bowlers were astonishing back in the ‘80s and ‘90s.

    It’s been sad to see cricket’s decline in the Carribean nations since then, replaced mostly by Track & Field, and American sports that offer big money.
    The irony is that there is now just as much money in cricket - via India - as there is in basketball and whatever. And given the Windies cultural affinity for cricket they’ve probably got a better chance of making it in cricket. So it doesn’t make sense even on the crudest financial grounds

    20/20 also suits the Windies style. Aggressive bowling and batting

    The IPL should set up their franchises on ten different West Indian islands. I’d watch that, in the sun
    And of course all this money, the Indians setting up T20 leagues around the world and willing to pump money into successful leagues....there was probably an opportunity to try and repeat some of the EPLs type success, but and England / Wales Cricket board, no we are going to play our own game, "The Hundred"...absolute morons.

    Its like if the EPL setup and said no we are going to play 9 aside football with totally different rules.....
    And the Hundred is also partly why, after this match, there's no Test cricket for nearly four months, until the end of November. I think there's also some ICC limited overs tournament - the 50-over world cup, perhaps.
    Apparently all the England players will be assess to see if they are fit for Hundred. Stokes is definitely not playing, I wouldn't be surprised if a number of crucial ODI players get wrapped in cotton wool until World Cup.

    So it may well be come and watch a load of players you never heard of play the stupid game nobody else in the world plays.
    Speaking for myself, I will be watching the YouTube streams of the One Day Cup, and I expect to see some good matches.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,313
    edited July 2023

    Disappointing Stokes it out, but the score is rattling on, 213 off 40 overs. Australia would still be only be on 60-70, the way they played yesterday.

    Lead 203.

    Leaving weather aside, what target would England like to set? Bearing in mind, they have to win. There's no point batting Aus out of it. Maybe 300-350?

    Declare an hour after tea, perhaps, if they're still batting of course?
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,001
    Andy_JS said:

    Bish bosh, lovely session on Bazball....not like those boring convicts.

    Rubbish, let's have real test cricket.
    I noticed you complaining earlier that people seem to expect everyone else to believe that certain ways of doing things are the true way and you have to be a "true believer," referring to Bazball.

    But - the only times you've got pushback on cricket is when you've popped up decreeing that non-Bazball is the only "real" way of playing test cricket.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    edited July 2023
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    TimS said:

    I still don't know what Bazball means.

    Even after looking it up.

    It is nothing more, nor less, than playing cricket with a complete absence of a fear of failure.
    It could have had a huge liberating effect on England players in the 1990s. That’s when the demons of self doubt had their strongest stranglehold on our players. No surprise the ones who still enjoyed some success then were the mentally tough who were most immune to criticism: Robin Smith, Thorpe and Hussain, Dominic Cork, Alec Stewart, Darren Gough.

    I remember someone writing about Mark Ramprakash, who probably epitomised the problem. In the nets and at county level the most talented stroke player of his generation, up there with Lara. But in England whites a rabbit in the headlights. Chris Lewis was another one, so was Graham Hick. We had some very talented players who just couldn’t deal with the mental pressures of test cricket.
    There is also a huge difference between country cricket and test cricket, especially in England. In England, slow dobbers are very useful due to the pitches and conditions. Graham Hick problem was he was great against that stuff, smashed it all round the ground, but then he got to test cricket and you got say Ambrose, Walsh, Bishop, Benjamin.....or Donald, Pollock, Kallis...you are getting 90mph freak show from every end for hours on end which is a totally different prospect.
    Those WI bowlers were astonishing back in the ‘80s and ‘90s.

    It’s been sad to see cricket’s decline in the Carribean nations since then, replaced mostly by Track & Field, and American sports that offer big money.
    The irony is that there is now just as much money in cricket - via India - as there is in basketball and whatever. And given the Windies cultural affinity for cricket they’ve probably got a better chance of making it in cricket. So it doesn’t make sense even on the crudest financial grounds

    20/20 also suits the Windies style. Aggressive bowling and batting

    The IPL should set up their franchises on ten different West Indian islands. I’d watch that, in the sun
    And of course all this money, the Indians setting up T20 leagues around the world and willing to pump money into successful leagues....there was probably an opportunity to try and repeat some of the EPLs type success, but and England / Wales Cricket board, no we are going to play our own game, "The Hundred"...absolute morons.

    Its like if the EPL setup and said no we are going to play 9 aside football with totally different rules.....

    Actually worse, we are going to play one league with 11 a aside, on rainy Tuesdays in December then play the 9 aside game on Saturday / Sundays in spring and summer.
    And we actually invented T20! Derrrrr

    The Hundred was so bizarre

    Anyway we are where we are. Cricket is making lots of money. Which is good

    There should be 4 or 5 T20 leagues in different places played at different times. India, England, Windies, Oz, one more?

    The rest of the time international cricket and the odd month off
    The big leagues the Indians have pumped money into are South Africa, Middle East, India, America and (lesser extent) Caribbean. Some players are now getting deals for multiple years to play in all those competitions for the same owners.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Leon said:

    THE ST LUCIA SIZZLERS

    THE TOBAGO TORNADOES

    THE BARBADOS BUCCANEERS

    Do it! What larks

    That would generate far more money for the West Indies in tourism and sport and everything than any amount of tedious basketball, or track and field

    The CPL already exists and doesn't make much money.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,755
    ydoethur said:

    Bugger.

    Yes, Stokes rather threw that away just as England were consolidating a lead. But this is still a pretty good situation. Want to be 350 ahead by the end of the day, quick dash tomorrow and then bowl.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,039
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    I still don't know what Bazball means.

    Even after looking it up.

    It is nothing more, nor less, than playing cricket with a complete absence of a fear of failure.
    It could have had a huge liberating effect on England players in the 1990s. That’s when the demons of self doubt had their strongest stranglehold on our players. No surprise the ones who still enjoyed some success then were the mentally tough who were most immune to criticism: Robin Smith, Thorpe and Hussain, Dominic Cork, Alec Stewart, Darren Gough.

    I remember someone writing about Mark Ramprakash, who probably epitomised the problem. In the nets and at county level the most talented stroke player of his generation, up there with Lara. But in England whites a rabbit in the headlights. Chris Lewis was another one, so was Graham Hick. We had some very talented players who just couldn’t deal with the mental pressures of test cricket.
    It could also be usefully applied to the present generation of lavishly talented England footballers

    They have the skills to win major tournaments. They’ve shown it. All they lack is the last varnish of self confidence in attack. And maybe a different coach….

    I fear there is no such hope for England rugby. Just not very good, despite a couple of promising youngsters
    Football is a strange one, because they get extremely limited time together at international level.

    At club level, they play very complex tactical systems which enables players to show this self confidence. You see Man City training ground, its nuts, all these weird different size boxes painted onto the pitches, and players know when X move to this box, I move to that box, etc etc etc.

    International football in comparison, every nation now can put out a half decent starting 11, who are at very least well drilled to stop the opposition. But there isn't enough time for the likes of England to develop the sort of tactical systems that Man City or Liverpool use to break down say European teams with style.

    It is why for instance Belgium tried for past 10 years or so to play the same tactical systems all the way through the age groups. So that as they progressed they were already well drilled in them.
    I'd say that the current England squad play with more self belief than any England team that I can remember, going back to the 1990 World Cup.
    But they didn’t in the euros final. Scored once and shut the shop. Or tried to

    They should have gone all-out for the 2nd killer goal That’s bazball
    Better than before though. They used to be half paralyzed by fear. It used to drive me nuts. 'Just forget results, concentrate on performance, enjoy playing, don't worry about losing' I used to shout (at the players, at the manager, when they appeared on the telly) ... 'things will never improve until you do'.

    They did listen eventually - to some extent anyway.
    I like to think I’ve played bazball with my life. Given two options I’ve nearly always gone for the one with higher risk but greater reward. And not worried too much about failure

    So I’ve had an intense amount of fun. Simply sitting here drinking beer in the Ukrainian sun for example

    However when this has gone wrong it has tended to go REALLY wrong. An emotional batting collapse
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    edited July 2023
    Sandpit said:

    Bazball 50 for Root, off 42 balls!

    Root has always had the ability to score more quickly than people give him credit for, but under Bazball, particularly that scoop shot, has totally evaluated his game to having another gear.
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    263 highest successful run chase in an oval test

    Just saying
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,509
    Harry Brook starting as he means to go on as well. Even Punter is impressed with the way this England side are playing.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,313
    edited July 2023
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Bugger.

    Yes, Stokes rather threw that away just as England were consolidating a lead. But this is still a pretty good situation. Want to be 350 ahead by the end of the day, quick dash tomorrow and then bowl.
    If they're still batting tomorrow, they've lost the series. There will be very little play after 1pm tomorrow.

    Although now Brook has gone...
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,748
    edited July 2023
    deleted
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,483
    Australia have quality bowlers.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,313
    Sandpit said:

    Harry Brook starting as he means to go on as well. Even Punter is impressed with the way this England side are playing.

    You muppet.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,755
    Andy_JS said:

    Australia have quality bowlers.

    Yes, that was a superb ball. The scoring of England against this attack is all the more remarkable.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    Sandpit said:

    Harry Brook starting as he means to go on as well. Even Punter is impressed with the way this England side are playing.

    Off you pop to Conservative Home for the rest of the day.....
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,930

    TimS said:

    I still don't know what Bazball means.

    Even after looking it up.

    It is nothing more, nor less, than playing cricket with a complete absence of a fear of failure.
    It could have had a huge liberating effect on England players in the 1990s. That’s when the demons of self doubt had their strongest stranglehold on our players. No surprise the ones who still enjoyed some success then were the mentally tough who were most immune to criticism: Robin Smith, Thorpe and Hussain, Dominic Cork, Alec Stewart, Darren Gough.

    I remember someone writing about Mark Ramprakash, who probably epitomised the problem. In the nets and at county level the most talented stroke player of his generation, up there with Lara. But in England whites a rabbit in the headlights. Chris Lewis was another one, so was Graham Hick. We had some very talented players who just couldn’t deal with the mental pressures of test cricket.
    I think we could all learn from the example. Look at Keir Starmer. A politician constipated by the crippling fear of losing an election that should be impossible to lose.

    I know that a lot of my life has been affected by fear about the consequences of my actions. Things always go better for me when I can trust myself to deal with those consequences, whatever they are, and simply do things.
    Of course for Bazball to work you do need talent and some degree of judgment of when to leave the ball too. The Truss autumn premiership was Bazball, but played by tailenders. The political equivalent of being skittled out for 45 runs.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,483
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    TimS said:

    I still don't know what Bazball means.

    Even after looking it up.

    It is nothing more, nor less, than playing cricket with a complete absence of a fear of failure.
    It could have had a huge liberating effect on England players in the 1990s. That’s when the demons of self doubt had their strongest stranglehold on our players. No surprise the ones who still enjoyed some success then were the mentally tough who were most immune to criticism: Robin Smith, Thorpe and Hussain, Dominic Cork, Alec Stewart, Darren Gough.

    I remember someone writing about Mark Ramprakash, who probably epitomised the problem. In the nets and at county level the most talented stroke player of his generation, up there with Lara. But in England whites a rabbit in the headlights. Chris Lewis was another one, so was Graham Hick. We had some very talented players who just couldn’t deal with the mental pressures of test cricket.
    There is also a huge difference between country cricket and test cricket, especially in England. In England, slow dobbers are very useful due to the pitches and conditions. Graham Hick problem was he was great against that stuff, smashed it all round the ground, but then he got to test cricket and you got say Ambrose, Walsh, Bishop, Benjamin.....or Donald, Pollock, Kallis...you are getting 90mph freak show from every end for hours on end which is a totally different prospect.
    Those WI bowlers were astonishing back in the ‘80s and ‘90s.

    It’s been sad to see cricket’s decline in the Carribean nations since then, replaced mostly by Track & Field, and American sports that offer big money.
    The irony is that there is now just as much money in cricket - via India - as there is in basketball and whatever. And given the Windies cultural affinity for cricket they’ve probably got a better chance of making it in cricket. So it doesn’t make sense even on the crudest financial grounds

    20/20 also suits the Windies style. Aggressive bowling and batting

    The IPL should set up their franchises on ten different West Indian islands. I’d watch that, in the sun
    And of course all this money, the Indians setting up T20 leagues around the world and willing to pump money into successful leagues....there was probably an opportunity to try and repeat some of the EPLs type success, but and England / Wales Cricket board, no we are going to play our own game, "The Hundred"...absolute morons.

    Its like if the EPL setup and said no we are going to play 9 aside football with totally different rules.....

    Actually worse, we are going to play one league with 11 a aside, on rainy Tuesdays in December then play the 9 aside game on Saturday / Sundays in spring and summer.
    And we actually invented T20! Derrrrr

    The Hundred was so bizarre

    Anyway we are where we are. Cricket is making lots of money. Which is good

    There should be 4 or 5 T20 leagues in different places played at different times. India, England, Windies, Oz, one more?

    The rest of the time international cricket and the odd month off
    20 over cricket was the standard number of overs for U13 and U15 cricket when I was playing in those age groups. Seemed like quite a lot at the time.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,755
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Bugger.

    Yes, Stokes rather threw that away just as England were consolidating a lead. But this is still a pretty good situation. Want to be 350 ahead by the end of the day, quick dash tomorrow and then bowl.
    If they're still batting tomorrow, they've lost the series. There will be very little play after 1pm tomorrow.

    Although now Brook has gone...
    The weather forecast has improved considerably for Monday. But yes, getting bowled out because the wicket is doing plenty would not be the worst position to be in either.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    TimS said:

    I still don't know what Bazball means.

    Even after looking it up.

    It is nothing more, nor less, than playing cricket with a complete absence of a fear of failure.
    It could have had a huge liberating effect on England players in the 1990s. That’s when the demons of self doubt had their strongest stranglehold on our players. No surprise the ones who still enjoyed some success then were the mentally tough who were most immune to criticism: Robin Smith, Thorpe and Hussain, Dominic Cork, Alec Stewart, Darren Gough.

    I remember someone writing about Mark Ramprakash, who probably epitomised the problem. In the nets and at county level the most talented stroke player of his generation, up there with Lara. But in England whites a rabbit in the headlights. Chris Lewis was another one, so was Graham Hick. We had some very talented players who just couldn’t deal with the mental pressures of test cricket.
    I think we could all learn from the example. Look at Keir Starmer. A politician constipated by the crippling fear of losing an election that should be impossible to lose.

    I know that a lot of my life has been affected by fear about the consequences of my actions. Things always go better for me when I can trust myself to deal with those consequences, whatever they are, and simply do things.
    I have always lived according Gibbon's description of the barbarian credo I read as a teenager.

    My liberty is to act on the whim of the moment. My courage is to live with the consequences.

    Honestly, there have been many times in my life when I wish fear had stayed my hand at the thought of the consequences of what I was about to do. Too old to change now. 🤘
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    edited July 2023
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    TimS said:

    I still don't know what Bazball means.

    Even after looking it up.

    It is nothing more, nor less, than playing cricket with a complete absence of a fear of failure.
    It could have had a huge liberating effect on England players in the 1990s. That’s when the demons of self doubt had their strongest stranglehold on our players. No surprise the ones who still enjoyed some success then were the mentally tough who were most immune to criticism: Robin Smith, Thorpe and Hussain, Dominic Cork, Alec Stewart, Darren Gough.

    I remember someone writing about Mark Ramprakash, who probably epitomised the problem. In the nets and at county level the most talented stroke player of his generation, up there with Lara. But in England whites a rabbit in the headlights. Chris Lewis was another one, so was Graham Hick. We had some very talented players who just couldn’t deal with the mental pressures of test cricket.
    There is also a huge difference between country cricket and test cricket, especially in England. In England, slow dobbers are very useful due to the pitches and conditions. Graham Hick problem was he was great against that stuff, smashed it all round the ground, but then he got to test cricket and you got say Ambrose, Walsh, Bishop, Benjamin.....or Donald, Pollock, Kallis...you are getting 90mph freak show from every end for hours on end which is a totally different prospect.
    Those WI bowlers were astonishing back in the ‘80s and ‘90s.

    It’s been sad to see cricket’s decline in the Carribean nations since then, replaced mostly by Track & Field, and American sports that offer big money.
    The irony is that there is now just as much money in cricket - via India - as there is in basketball and whatever. And given the Windies cultural affinity for cricket they’ve probably got a better chance of making it in cricket. So it doesn’t make sense even on the crudest financial grounds

    20/20 also suits the Windies style. Aggressive bowling and batting

    The IPL should set up their franchises on ten different West Indian islands. I’d watch that, in the sun
    And of course all this money, the Indians setting up T20 leagues around the world and willing to pump money into successful leagues....there was probably an opportunity to try and repeat some of the EPLs type success, but and England / Wales Cricket board, no we are going to play our own game, "The Hundred"...absolute morons.

    Its like if the EPL setup and said no we are going to play 9 aside football with totally different rules.....

    Actually worse, we are going to play one league with 11 a aside, on rainy Tuesdays in December then play the 9 aside game on Saturday / Sundays in spring and summer.
    And we actually invented T20! Derrrrr

    The Hundred was so bizarre

    Anyway we are where we are. Cricket is making lots of money. Which is good

    There should be 4 or 5 T20 leagues in different places played at different times. India, England, Windies, Oz, one more?

    The rest of the time international cricket and the odd month off
    20 over cricket was the standard number of overs for U13 and U15 cricket when I was playing in those age groups. Seemed like quite a lot at the time.
    I remember playing those games and 100 was thought of as a good total.....
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,509
    Sandpit said:

    Harry Brook starting as he means to go on as well. Even Punter is impressed with the way this England side are playing.

    That didn’t age well, did it! :D
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,313
    Well said Bob Neill:

    Andrew Malkinson: End living cost charge for wrongfully convicted, Tory MP says
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66347594

    Given the infamously poor quality of prison food and accommodation - deliberately so - expecting innocent people to pay for it is outrageous.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Bugger.

    Yes, Stokes rather threw that away just as England were consolidating a lead. But this is still a pretty good situation. Want to be 350 ahead by the end of the day, quick dash tomorrow and then bowl.
    If they're still batting tomorrow, they've lost the series. There will be very little play after 1pm tomorrow.

    Although now Brook has gone...
    The weather forecast has improved considerably for Monday. But yes, getting bowled out because the wicket is doing plenty would not be the worst position to be in either.
    We are still in a good position. A prudent approach which means batting certainly for two more hours will give us a very decent target to set Australia. We should be disappointed if we don't manage to get 300 ahead.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,748

    Sandpit said:

    Completely off topic, but commendable:

    The Oakland NAACP does something brave — and wise:

    "OAKLAND, Calif. – The Oakland NAACP has called on city leaders to declare a state of emergency due to rising crime, calling the situation a “crisis,” and has urged residents across the city to speak out against it.

    The group, alongside Bishop Bob Jackson of the Acts Full Gospel Church, issued the statement on Thursday, blasting both city and county officials, as well as social justice movements."
    source: https://www.ktvu.com/news/oakland-naacp-blasts-local-leaders-calls-for-state-of-emergency-due-to-crime

    Ever since I worked in a slum school on the west side of Chicago more than 50 years ago, I have known that most of the victims of black criminals are also black*. And that crime often causes poverty. But those are things you won’t hear said by the leftists on Martha’s Vineyard.

    (*That is true of other groups. According to reports I’ve seen, most of Bernie Madoff’s victims were other Jews. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that the Mafia mostly vitimizes Italians. And so on.)

    Cross posted at Patterico's Pontifications.

    And of course particularly with things like high retail crime, shops will just close, with means few jobs in those neighbours, which means more poverty, which means more crime, rinse and repeat. And we are already seeing it as the likes of Walmart exits completely from some cities.

    The laws put in place whereby steal less than $800-1000 bucks from a store and it is effectively a parking ticket has to be some of the most stupid laws ever thought up....and of course employees are not to try and stop this, otherwise they get sacked and the police, well they have been defunded and told they are all racist, so ain't going to rush there to issue the citation.
    Guess what happens when you defund the police, and elect useless state prosecutors who think it’s racist to charge people with theft?

    Commendable indeed from the NAACP, who see how things are on the streets, rather than how wealthy policymakers think they should be.
    And this cancer has spread outside of the traditional high crime areas / cities. Portland, was always a bit weird and wacky place, but safe and prosperous. Now downtown is like a scene from the Walking Day, and whenever the far left (and less so the far right) turn up and smash the place up, the moronic Mayor and local prosecutors, don't want to charge people because whatever -ist and historic oppression you want to choose.

    So businesses are just shutting up shop.
    Perhaps if the police could stop standing on the necks of people they arrest for petty crime, politicians might be more in favour of arrests for petty crime.

    Incompetently administered capital punishment in the street looks bad.
    In Portland they haven't been charging people for much more serious crimes than shoplifting.

    And of course the police officers responsible for administering capital punishment were correctly jailed. Despite the often touted claims that any young black unarmed man might get murdered by the police, the figures don't hold up. The numbers of individuals killed by the police is very high compared to say the UK, but it is armed criminals....lead to heavily armed police...lead to many more situations where its life and death decisions. And with the introduction of bodycams, police can't get away with anywhere near as much dodgy stuff as perhaps they did before.

    The issue of shoplifting not really being properly enforced has been on the books in some cities from before George Floyd and was causing trouble with organised gangs. But the word spreads and now it is a total disaster in quite a few US cities.
    Shoplifting is becoming a huge problem here too where it is unconnected with America's bizarre racial politics. Just this week the Co-op warned it might have to pull out of some areas.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66323140
    The reason that the police are doing nothing about shop lifting is related - they see little upside in arresting Da Yuth, a chance of being stabbed, a claim of racism and released on bail as a cherry on the pie.

    Bit like not cracking down on the patently illegal electric bikes or the building sites which are visibly breaking the law.
    What could the police do about shoplifting? Uniform aren't there and CID are not going to spend days going through cctv searching for two miscreants who stole goods worth, what, a couple of hundred quid. At best police might mount a special operation, flooding an area for a couple of weeks but then the money will run out or the mayor of the next town over will call.

    It may be the shops will need to organise something themselves, from more security guards, through shared intelligence, all the way through to prosecutions, as betting shops had to do.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,994
    Malmesbury - I suspected from the beginning that "Hanlon's Razor" applied in the death of George Floyd. Incompetence rather than malice. And my belief was reinforced by a George Will column descrbing Derek Chauvin's lousy record as a cop. (He kept his job because of civil service rules, and, probably, a police union contract.)

    John McWhorter did a little searching and found an almost identical incident -- except the victim was white. And so that incident received almost no publicity.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,798
    ydoethur said:

    Well said Bob Neill:

    Andrew Malkinson: End living cost charge for wrongfully convicted, Tory MP says
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66347594

    Given the infamously poor quality of prison food and accommodation - deliberately so - expecting innocent people to pay for it is outrageous.

    It is just bonkers and insulting. And completely unnecessary too. The state sets an arbitrary amount of compensation for wrongful imprisonment. If it believes that is too high (I don't, but perhaps the govt does) just reduce it, don't calculate a high number and then do this insulting adjustment. I mean really, this stuff is simple.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,313
    One question - will Moeen Ali be fit to bat? If he is, he's eligible to come in next.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,755
    Miklosvar said:

    263 highest successful run chase in an oval test

    Just saying

    That was then, this England team would think that a breeze and the Australians are no mugs either. Without a front line spinner, with Stokes not bowling and a very tired seamer attack not exactly in the first flush of youth...England will need a few more than that.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,798

    Sandpit said:

    Completely off topic, but commendable:

    The Oakland NAACP does something brave — and wise:

    "OAKLAND, Calif. – The Oakland NAACP has called on city leaders to declare a state of emergency due to rising crime, calling the situation a “crisis,” and has urged residents across the city to speak out against it.

    The group, alongside Bishop Bob Jackson of the Acts Full Gospel Church, issued the statement on Thursday, blasting both city and county officials, as well as social justice movements."
    source: https://www.ktvu.com/news/oakland-naacp-blasts-local-leaders-calls-for-state-of-emergency-due-to-crime

    Ever since I worked in a slum school on the west side of Chicago more than 50 years ago, I have known that most of the victims of black criminals are also black*. And that crime often causes poverty. But those are things you won’t hear said by the leftists on Martha’s Vineyard.

    (*That is true of other groups. According to reports I’ve seen, most of Bernie Madoff’s victims were other Jews. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that the Mafia mostly vitimizes Italians. And so on.)

    Cross posted at Patterico's Pontifications.

    And of course particularly with things like high retail crime, shops will just close, with means few jobs in those neighbours, which means more poverty, which means more crime, rinse and repeat. And we are already seeing it as the likes of Walmart exits completely from some cities.

    The laws put in place whereby steal less than $800-1000 bucks from a store and it is effectively a parking ticket has to be some of the most stupid laws ever thought up....and of course employees are not to try and stop this, otherwise they get sacked and the police, well they have been defunded and told they are all racist, so ain't going to rush there to issue the citation.
    Guess what happens when you defund the police, and elect useless state prosecutors who think it’s racist to charge people with theft?

    Commendable indeed from the NAACP, who see how things are on the streets, rather than how wealthy policymakers think they should be.
    And this cancer has spread outside of the traditional high crime areas / cities. Portland, was always a bit weird and wacky place, but safe and prosperous. Now downtown is like a scene from the Walking Day, and whenever the far left (and less so the far right) turn up and smash the place up, the moronic Mayor and local prosecutors, don't want to charge people because whatever -ist and historic oppression you want to choose.

    So businesses are just shutting up shop.
    Perhaps if the police could stop standing on the necks of people they arrest for petty crime, politicians might be more in favour of arrests for petty crime.

    Incompetently administered capital punishment in the street looks bad.
    In Portland they haven't been charging people for much more serious crimes than shoplifting.

    And of course the police officers responsible for administering capital punishment were correctly jailed. Despite the often touted claims that any young black unarmed man might get murdered by the police, the figures don't hold up. The numbers of individuals killed by the police is very high compared to say the UK, but it is armed criminals....lead to heavily armed police...lead to many more situations where its life and death decisions. And with the introduction of bodycams, police can't get away with anywhere near as much dodgy stuff as perhaps they did before.

    The issue of shoplifting not really being properly enforced has been on the books in some cities from before George Floyd and was causing trouble with organised gangs. But the word spreads and now it is a total disaster in quite a few US cities.
    Shoplifting is becoming a huge problem here too where it is unconnected with America's bizarre racial politics. Just this week the Co-op warned it might have to pull out of some areas.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66323140
    The reason that the police are doing nothing about shop lifting is related - they see little upside in arresting Da Yuth, a chance of being stabbed, a claim of racism and released on bail as a cherry on the pie.

    Bit like not cracking down on the patently illegal electric bikes or the building sites which are visibly breaking the law.
    What could the police do about shoplifting? Uniform aren't there and CID are not going to spend days going through cctv searching for two miscreants who stole goods worth, what, a couple of hundred quid. At best police might mount a special operation, flooding an area for a couple of weeks but then the money will run out or the mayor of the next town over will call.

    It may be the shops will need to organise something themselves, from more security guards, through shared intelligence, all the way through to prosecutions, as betting shops had to do.
    Or people on tills, and don't rely on an honour system of payment. I know this is a revolutionary concept from the future but it might just work.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,483
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    I still don't know what Bazball means.

    Even after looking it up.

    It is nothing more, nor less, than playing cricket with a complete absence of a fear of failure.
    It could have had a huge liberating effect on England players in the 1990s. That’s when the demons of self doubt had their strongest stranglehold on our players. No surprise the ones who still enjoyed some success then were the mentally tough who were most immune to criticism: Robin Smith, Thorpe and Hussain, Dominic Cork, Alec Stewart, Darren Gough.

    I remember someone writing about Mark Ramprakash, who probably epitomised the problem. In the nets and at county level the most talented stroke player of his generation, up there with Lara. But in England whites a rabbit in the headlights. Chris Lewis was another one, so was Graham Hick. We had some very talented players who just couldn’t deal with the mental pressures of test cricket.
    I think we could all learn from the example. Look at Keir Starmer. A politician constipated by the crippling fear of losing an election that should be impossible to lose.

    I know that a lot of my life has been affected by fear about the consequences of my actions. Things always go better for me when I can trust myself to deal with those consequences, whatever they are, and simply do things.
    Of course for Bazball to work you do need talent and some degree of judgment of when to leave the ball too. The Truss autumn premiership was Bazball, but played by tailenders. The political equivalent of being skittled out for 45 runs.
    Ben Duckett doesn't believe in leaving the ball.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    ydoethur said:

    One question - will Moeen Ali be fit to bat? If he is, he's eligible to come in next.

    He has been so unlucky, first his finger gets ripped apart and now he injuries his groin.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,748

    Sandpit said:

    Completely off topic, but commendable:

    The Oakland NAACP does something brave — and wise:

    "OAKLAND, Calif. – The Oakland NAACP has called on city leaders to declare a state of emergency due to rising crime, calling the situation a “crisis,” and has urged residents across the city to speak out against it.

    The group, alongside Bishop Bob Jackson of the Acts Full Gospel Church, issued the statement on Thursday, blasting both city and county officials, as well as social justice movements."
    source: https://www.ktvu.com/news/oakland-naacp-blasts-local-leaders-calls-for-state-of-emergency-due-to-crime

    Ever since I worked in a slum school on the west side of Chicago more than 50 years ago, I have known that most of the victims of black criminals are also black*. And that crime often causes poverty. But those are things you won’t hear said by the leftists on Martha’s Vineyard.

    (*That is true of other groups. According to reports I’ve seen, most of Bernie Madoff’s victims were other Jews. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that the Mafia mostly vitimizes Italians. And so on.)

    Cross posted at Patterico's Pontifications.

    And of course particularly with things like high retail crime, shops will just close, with means few jobs in those neighbours, which means more poverty, which means more crime, rinse and repeat. And we are already seeing it as the likes of Walmart exits completely from some cities.

    The laws put in place whereby steal less than $800-1000 bucks from a store and it is effectively a parking ticket has to be some of the most stupid laws ever thought up....and of course employees are not to try and stop this, otherwise they get sacked and the police, well they have been defunded and told they are all racist, so ain't going to rush there to issue the citation.
    Guess what happens when you defund the police, and elect useless state prosecutors who think it’s racist to charge people with theft?

    Commendable indeed from the NAACP, who see how things are on the streets, rather than how wealthy policymakers think they should be.
    And this cancer has spread outside of the traditional high crime areas / cities. Portland, was always a bit weird and wacky place, but safe and prosperous. Now downtown is like a scene from the Walking Day, and whenever the far left (and less so the far right) turn up and smash the place up, the moronic Mayor and local prosecutors, don't want to charge people because whatever -ist and historic oppression you want to choose.

    So businesses are just shutting up shop.
    Perhaps if the police could stop standing on the necks of people they arrest for petty crime, politicians might be more in favour of arrests for petty crime.

    Incompetently administered capital punishment in the street looks bad.
    In Portland they haven't been charging people for much more serious crimes than shoplifting.

    And of course the police officers responsible for administering capital punishment were correctly jailed. Despite the often touted claims that any young black unarmed man might get murdered by the police, the figures don't hold up. The numbers of individuals killed by the police is very high compared to say the UK, but it is armed criminals....lead to heavily armed police...lead to many more situations where its life and death decisions. And with the introduction of bodycams, police can't get away with anywhere near as much dodgy stuff as perhaps they did before.

    The issue of shoplifting not really being properly enforced has been on the books in some cities from before George Floyd and was causing trouble with organised gangs. But the word spreads and now it is a total disaster in quite a few US cities.
    Shoplifting is becoming a huge problem here too where it is unconnected with America's bizarre racial politics. Just this week the Co-op warned it might have to pull out of some areas.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66323140
    Yes I saw that report. Its also fairly common to smash and grab things like mobiles. But we aren't anywhere near the level of some of these US cities, where it was organised gangs who would hit a store, now its just every hour of every day, people come in and walk out with stuff, such they are putting chains across frozen cabinets to stop people just helping themselves to a tub of ice cream.

    The UK, particularly London, has a bit issue with phone muggings and moped thefts (to be used in phone muggings and smash and grab).
    I gather that sort of shoplifting, walk in, empty one section, walk out, has spread here, probably via TikTok or other social media uploading American thefts which become instructional videos for our lot.

    On mobile phones and smash and grab, perhaps there should be a new offence of going equipped, that is being in a small group of moped riders with balaclavas and no number plates.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,509
    ydoethur said:

    One question - will Moeen Ali be fit to bat? If he is, he's eligible to come in next.

    I don’t mind if he bats at 9 or 10, if it means he’s fit to bowl.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,275
    The Crawley/Duckett opening partnership is now 31st in the list of highest-scoring opening partnerships in all of Ashes cricket history, just outside of the top 10%, which is pretty good going for one series.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    edited July 2023

    Sandpit said:

    Completely off topic, but commendable:

    The Oakland NAACP does something brave — and wise:

    "OAKLAND, Calif. – The Oakland NAACP has called on city leaders to declare a state of emergency due to rising crime, calling the situation a “crisis,” and has urged residents across the city to speak out against it.

    The group, alongside Bishop Bob Jackson of the Acts Full Gospel Church, issued the statement on Thursday, blasting both city and county officials, as well as social justice movements."
    source: https://www.ktvu.com/news/oakland-naacp-blasts-local-leaders-calls-for-state-of-emergency-due-to-crime

    Ever since I worked in a slum school on the west side of Chicago more than 50 years ago, I have known that most of the victims of black criminals are also black*. And that crime often causes poverty. But those are things you won’t hear said by the leftists on Martha’s Vineyard.

    (*That is true of other groups. According to reports I’ve seen, most of Bernie Madoff’s victims were other Jews. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that the Mafia mostly vitimizes Italians. And so on.)

    Cross posted at Patterico's Pontifications.

    And of course particularly with things like high retail crime, shops will just close, with means few jobs in those neighbours, which means more poverty, which means more crime, rinse and repeat. And we are already seeing it as the likes of Walmart exits completely from some cities.

    The laws put in place whereby steal less than $800-1000 bucks from a store and it is effectively a parking ticket has to be some of the most stupid laws ever thought up....and of course employees are not to try and stop this, otherwise they get sacked and the police, well they have been defunded and told they are all racist, so ain't going to rush there to issue the citation.
    Guess what happens when you defund the police, and elect useless state prosecutors who think it’s racist to charge people with theft?

    Commendable indeed from the NAACP, who see how things are on the streets, rather than how wealthy policymakers think they should be.
    And this cancer has spread outside of the traditional high crime areas / cities. Portland, was always a bit weird and wacky place, but safe and prosperous. Now downtown is like a scene from the Walking Day, and whenever the far left (and less so the far right) turn up and smash the place up, the moronic Mayor and local prosecutors, don't want to charge people because whatever -ist and historic oppression you want to choose.

    So businesses are just shutting up shop.
    Perhaps if the police could stop standing on the necks of people they arrest for petty crime, politicians might be more in favour of arrests for petty crime.

    Incompetently administered capital punishment in the street looks bad.
    In Portland they haven't been charging people for much more serious crimes than shoplifting.

    And of course the police officers responsible for administering capital punishment were correctly jailed. Despite the often touted claims that any young black unarmed man might get murdered by the police, the figures don't hold up. The numbers of individuals killed by the police is very high compared to say the UK, but it is armed criminals....lead to heavily armed police...lead to many more situations where its life and death decisions. And with the introduction of bodycams, police can't get away with anywhere near as much dodgy stuff as perhaps they did before.

    The issue of shoplifting not really being properly enforced has been on the books in some cities from before George Floyd and was causing trouble with organised gangs. But the word spreads and now it is a total disaster in quite a few US cities.
    Shoplifting is becoming a huge problem here too where it is unconnected with America's bizarre racial politics. Just this week the Co-op warned it might have to pull out of some areas.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66323140
    Yes I saw that report. Its also fairly common to smash and grab things like mobiles. But we aren't anywhere near the level of some of these US cities, where it was organised gangs who would hit a store, now its just every hour of every day, people come in and walk out with stuff, such they are putting chains across frozen cabinets to stop people just helping themselves to a tub of ice cream.

    The UK, particularly London, has a bit issue with phone muggings and moped thefts (to be used in phone muggings and smash and grab).
    I gather that sort of shoplifting, walk in, empty one section, walk out, has spread here, probably via TikTok or other social media uploading American thefts which become instructional videos for our lot.

    On mobile phones and smash and grab, perhaps there should be a new offence of going equipped, that is being in a small group of moped riders with balaclavas and no number plates.
    If I was Starmer I would be going big on making tackling this sort of crime a priority to seal the deal with the electorate. Also way more people care about that sort of thing than what is a woman stuff.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    ydoethur said:

    One question - will Moeen Ali be fit to bat? If he is, he's eligible to come in next.

    "We have just seen a shot of Moeen Ali padded up on the England balcony, so it looks like he will be next man in."
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,275
    There were recently some suggestion that Joe Root wasn't quite sure how to play in the Bazball era, that he was struggling with a bit of pressure to score too quickly, but his average under Stokes is now approaching 60.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,930

    Sandpit said:

    Completely off topic, but commendable:

    The Oakland NAACP does something brave — and wise:

    "OAKLAND, Calif. – The Oakland NAACP has called on city leaders to declare a state of emergency due to rising crime, calling the situation a “crisis,” and has urged residents across the city to speak out against it.

    The group, alongside Bishop Bob Jackson of the Acts Full Gospel Church, issued the statement on Thursday, blasting both city and county officials, as well as social justice movements."
    source: https://www.ktvu.com/news/oakland-naacp-blasts-local-leaders-calls-for-state-of-emergency-due-to-crime

    Ever since I worked in a slum school on the west side of Chicago more than 50 years ago, I have known that most of the victims of black criminals are also black*. And that crime often causes poverty. But those are things you won’t hear said by the leftists on Martha’s Vineyard.

    (*That is true of other groups. According to reports I’ve seen, most of Bernie Madoff’s victims were other Jews. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that the Mafia mostly vitimizes Italians. And so on.)

    Cross posted at Patterico's Pontifications.

    And of course particularly with things like high retail crime, shops will just close, with means few jobs in those neighbours, which means more poverty, which means more crime, rinse and repeat. And we are already seeing it as the likes of Walmart exits completely from some cities.

    The laws put in place whereby steal less than $800-1000 bucks from a store and it is effectively a parking ticket has to be some of the most stupid laws ever thought up....and of course employees are not to try and stop this, otherwise they get sacked and the police, well they have been defunded and told they are all racist, so ain't going to rush there to issue the citation.
    Guess what happens when you defund the police, and elect useless state prosecutors who think it’s racist to charge people with theft?

    Commendable indeed from the NAACP, who see how things are on the streets, rather than how wealthy policymakers think they should be.
    And this cancer has spread outside of the traditional high crime areas / cities. Portland, was always a bit weird and wacky place, but safe and prosperous. Now downtown is like a scene from the Walking Day, and whenever the far left (and less so the far right) turn up and smash the place up, the moronic Mayor and local prosecutors, don't want to charge people because whatever -ist and historic oppression you want to choose.

    So businesses are just shutting up shop.
    Perhaps if the police could stop standing on the necks of people they arrest for petty crime, politicians might be more in favour of arrests for petty crime.

    Incompetently administered capital punishment in the street looks bad.
    In Portland they haven't been charging people for much more serious crimes than shoplifting.

    And of course the police officers responsible for administering capital punishment were correctly jailed. Despite the often touted claims that any young black unarmed man might get murdered by the police, the figures don't hold up. The numbers of individuals killed by the police is very high compared to say the UK, but it is armed criminals....lead to heavily armed police...lead to many more situations where its life and death decisions. And with the introduction of bodycams, police can't get away with anywhere near as much dodgy stuff as perhaps they did before.

    The issue of shoplifting not really being properly enforced has been on the books in some cities from before George Floyd and was causing trouble with organised gangs. But the word spreads and now it is a total disaster in quite a few US cities.
    Shoplifting is becoming a huge problem here too where it is unconnected with America's bizarre racial politics. Just this week the Co-op warned it might have to pull out of some areas.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66323140
    Yes I saw that report. Its also fairly common to smash and grab things like mobiles. But we aren't anywhere near the level of some of these US cities, where it was organised gangs who would hit a store, now its just every hour of every day, people come in and walk out with stuff, such they are putting chains across frozen cabinets to stop people just helping themselves to a tub of ice cream.

    The UK, particularly London, has a bit issue with phone muggings and moped thefts (to be used in phone muggings and smash and grab).
    I gather that sort of shoplifting, walk in, empty one section, walk out, has spread here, probably via TikTok or other social media uploading American thefts which become instructional videos for our lot.

    On mobile phones and smash and grab, perhaps there should be a new offence of going equipped, that is being in a small group of moped riders with balaclavas and no number plates.
    If I was Starmer I would be going big on making tackling this sort of crime a priority to seal the deal with the electorate. Also way more people care about that sort of thing than what is a woman stuff.
    Absolutely, it’s something the left, right and centre can all agree on. Police not bothering to investigate and prosecute thefts (usually because of resource constraints, sometimes incompetence) is something that affects rich and poor, rural and urban, north and south.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,755
    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    THE ST LUCIA SIZZLERS

    THE TOBAGO TORNADOES

    THE BARBADOS BUCCANEERS

    Do it! What larks

    That would generate far more money for the West Indies in tourism and sport and everything than any amount of tedious basketball, or track and field

    The CPL already exists and doesn't make much money.
    Its really sad to see the Windies playing India to almost empty stadiums. So many excellent players on show. I absolutely love watching Kohli on a cricket field, batting or fielding.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,723
    edited July 2023

    ydoethur said:

    Well said Bob Neill:

    Andrew Malkinson: End living cost charge for wrongfully convicted, Tory MP says
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66347594

    Given the infamously poor quality of prison food and accommodation - deliberately so - expecting innocent people to pay for it is outrageous.

    It is just bonkers and insulting. And completely unnecessary too. The state sets an arbitrary amount of compensation for wrongful imprisonment. If it believes that is too high (I don't, but perhaps the govt does) just reduce it, don't calculate a high number and then do this insulting adjustment. I mean really, this stuff is simple.
    He ought to pay a negative sum for having to eat that food. It's not as if he could nip out to a Sainsburys Metropolitan or M&S to get a ready meal if he didn't like the a la carte menu in HMP.

    Prison food came up some years back, HMIP report in [edit]2016: some time ago, but certainly covering Mr Malkinson's stay in HMP.

    https://www.justiceinspectorates.gov.uk/hmiprisons/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2016/09/Life-in-prison-Food-Web-2016.pdf

    "Spending on food in prisons has been decreasing. In 2014–15, the total expenditure on food
    in prisons was £54.1 million, down from £55.1 million in 2013–14 and £59.6 million in
    2012–13.8 The basic catering budget allowance per prisoner per day was previously £2.02.9
    All prisons now have the autonomy to set their own food budget dependant on local
    requirements and in some prisons as little as £1.87 per prisoner per day was spent.10 In a
    handful of prisons, this is supplemented by produce grown at the prison, for example, at the
    open prison HMP and YOI Hollesley Bay (2015), where produce grown in the gardens is
    used in the kitchens and offered to prisoners to use in self-catering. However, to put this
    into perspective, the average daily spend per patient on in-patient food services in hospitals
    in 2014–15 was £9.88,11 which is almost five times higher. This same basic prison catering
    budget needs to be used to purchase special-requirement meals (such as religious, vegetarian
    or vegan diets, but excluding medical diets), which can cost several times more than basic
    prison fare. It is also the funding source for celebration of religious festivals such as Eid, and
    for providing refreshments for family visit [...]"
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,755
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Harry Brook starting as he means to go on as well. Even Punter is impressed with the way this England side are playing.

    That didn’t age well, did it! :D
    In fairness, it is only because Brook is such an exceptional talent that he got any bat on that delivery at all.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,798
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Well said Bob Neill:

    Andrew Malkinson: End living cost charge for wrongfully convicted, Tory MP says
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66347594

    Given the infamously poor quality of prison food and accommodation - deliberately so - expecting innocent people to pay for it is outrageous.

    It is just bonkers and insulting. And completely unnecessary too. The state sets an arbitrary amount of compensation for wrongful imprisonment. If it believes that is too high (I don't, but perhaps the govt does) just reduce it, don't calculate a high number and then do this insulting adjustment. I mean really, this stuff is simple.
    He ought to pay a negative sum for having to eat that food. It's not as if he could nip out to a Sainsburys Metropolitan or M&S to get a ready meal if he didn't like the a la carte menu in HMP.

    Prison food came up some years back, HMIP report in [edit]2016: some time ago, but certainly covering Mr Malkinson's stay in HMP.

    https://www.justiceinspectorates.gov.uk/hmiprisons/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2016/09/Life-in-prison-Food-Web-2016.pdf

    "Spending on food in prisons has been decreasing. In 2014–15, the total expenditure on food
    in prisons was £54.1 million, down from £55.1 million in 2013–14 and £59.6 million in
    2012–13.8 The basic catering budget allowance per prisoner per day was previously £2.02.9
    All prisons now have the autonomy to set their own food budget dependant on local
    requirements and in some prisons as little as £1.87 per prisoner per day was spent.10 In a
    handful of prisons, this is supplemented by produce grown at the prison, for example, at the
    open prison HMP and YOI Hollesley Bay (2015), where produce grown in the gardens is
    used in the kitchens and offered to prisoners to use in self-catering. However, to put this
    into perspective, the average daily spend per patient on in-patient food services in hospitals
    in 2014–15 was £9.88,11 which is almost five times higher. This same basic prison catering
    budget needs to be used to purchase special-requirement meals (such as religious, vegetarian
    or vegan diets, but excluding medical diets), which can cost several times more than basic
    prison fare. It is also the funding source for celebration of religious festivals such as Eid, and
    for providing refreshments for family visit [...]"
    Sounds profligate to me. Need to get Lee "30p a meal" Anderson inside to help out to eat inside.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,313

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Well said Bob Neill:

    Andrew Malkinson: End living cost charge for wrongfully convicted, Tory MP says
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66347594

    Given the infamously poor quality of prison food and accommodation - deliberately so - expecting innocent people to pay for it is outrageous.

    It is just bonkers and insulting. And completely unnecessary too. The state sets an arbitrary amount of compensation for wrongful imprisonment. If it believes that is too high (I don't, but perhaps the govt does) just reduce it, don't calculate a high number and then do this insulting adjustment. I mean really, this stuff is simple.
    He ought to pay a negative sum for having to eat that food. It's not as if he could nip out to a Sainsburys Metropolitan or M&S to get a ready meal if he didn't like the a la carte menu in HMP.

    Prison food came up some years back, HMIP report in [edit]2016: some time ago, but certainly covering Mr Malkinson's stay in HMP.

    https://www.justiceinspectorates.gov.uk/hmiprisons/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2016/09/Life-in-prison-Food-Web-2016.pdf

    "Spending on food in prisons has been decreasing. In 2014–15, the total expenditure on food
    in prisons was £54.1 million, down from £55.1 million in 2013–14 and £59.6 million in
    2012–13.8 The basic catering budget allowance per prisoner per day was previously £2.02.9
    All prisons now have the autonomy to set their own food budget dependant on local
    requirements and in some prisons as little as £1.87 per prisoner per day was spent.10 In a
    handful of prisons, this is supplemented by produce grown at the prison, for example, at the
    open prison HMP and YOI Hollesley Bay (2015), where produce grown in the gardens is
    used in the kitchens and offered to prisoners to use in self-catering. However, to put this
    into perspective, the average daily spend per patient on in-patient food services in hospitals
    in 2014–15 was £9.88,11 which is almost five times higher. This same basic prison catering
    budget needs to be used to purchase special-requirement meals (such as religious, vegetarian
    or vegan diets, but excluding medical diets), which can cost several times more than basic
    prison fare. It is also the funding source for celebration of religious festivals such as Eid, and
    for providing refreshments for family visit [...]"
    Sounds profligate to me. Need to get Lee "30p a meal" Anderson inside to help out to eat inside.
    Ummm - unpleasant though he is, I don't think eating him would be quite fair.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,313
    Another wicket goes down and the game goes with it.

    You can breathe again, I'm talking about the match at Cheltenham.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,798
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Well said Bob Neill:

    Andrew Malkinson: End living cost charge for wrongfully convicted, Tory MP says
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66347594

    Given the infamously poor quality of prison food and accommodation - deliberately so - expecting innocent people to pay for it is outrageous.

    It is just bonkers and insulting. And completely unnecessary too. The state sets an arbitrary amount of compensation for wrongful imprisonment. If it believes that is too high (I don't, but perhaps the govt does) just reduce it, don't calculate a high number and then do this insulting adjustment. I mean really, this stuff is simple.
    He ought to pay a negative sum for having to eat that food. It's not as if he could nip out to a Sainsburys Metropolitan or M&S to get a ready meal if he didn't like the a la carte menu in HMP.

    Prison food came up some years back, HMIP report in [edit]2016: some time ago, but certainly covering Mr Malkinson's stay in HMP.

    https://www.justiceinspectorates.gov.uk/hmiprisons/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2016/09/Life-in-prison-Food-Web-2016.pdf

    "Spending on food in prisons has been decreasing. In 2014–15, the total expenditure on food
    in prisons was £54.1 million, down from £55.1 million in 2013–14 and £59.6 million in
    2012–13.8 The basic catering budget allowance per prisoner per day was previously £2.02.9
    All prisons now have the autonomy to set their own food budget dependant on local
    requirements and in some prisons as little as £1.87 per prisoner per day was spent.10 In a
    handful of prisons, this is supplemented by produce grown at the prison, for example, at the
    open prison HMP and YOI Hollesley Bay (2015), where produce grown in the gardens is
    used in the kitchens and offered to prisoners to use in self-catering. However, to put this
    into perspective, the average daily spend per patient on in-patient food services in hospitals
    in 2014–15 was £9.88,11 which is almost five times higher. This same basic prison catering
    budget needs to be used to purchase special-requirement meals (such as religious, vegetarian
    or vegan diets, but excluding medical diets), which can cost several times more than basic
    prison fare. It is also the funding source for celebration of religious festivals such as Eid, and
    for providing refreshments for family visit [...]"
    Sounds profligate to me. Need to get Lee "30p a meal" Anderson inside to help out to eat inside.
    Ummm - unpleasant though he is, I don't think eating him would be quite fair.
    The only other palatable option was to send him to Rwanda, but I think that would be clearly against their human rights.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,930
    ydoethur said:

    Another wicket goes down and the game goes with it.

    You can breathe again, I'm talking about the match at Cheltenham.

    Bastard.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,039
    Race to a lead of 300. Put them in

    Do-able
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,483
    ydoethur said:

    Another wicket goes down and the game goes with it.

    You can breathe again, I'm talking about the match at Cheltenham.

    I didn't know they played there.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,039
    I believe I am the first person to watch Live Cricket, in Chernivtsi, Chernivtsi Oblast, Bukovina, west Ukraine

    Certainly the first person to do it when Ukraine is AT WAR


  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,755

    Should Stokes always bat at 3?

    I would say so when Pope is not available. But Pope looks to have a lot of potential in that position.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,313
    Andy_JS said:

    ydoethur said:

    Another wicket goes down and the game goes with it.

    You can breathe again, I'm talking about the match at Cheltenham.

    I didn't know they played there.
    I love Cheltenham. Must be the most beautiful ground in England.

    Sadly I couldn't get down there this year, although given how Gloucestershire have played maybe that's not such a loss!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,723

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Well said Bob Neill:

    Andrew Malkinson: End living cost charge for wrongfully convicted, Tory MP says
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66347594

    Given the infamously poor quality of prison food and accommodation - deliberately so - expecting innocent people to pay for it is outrageous.

    It is just bonkers and insulting. And completely unnecessary too. The state sets an arbitrary amount of compensation for wrongful imprisonment. If it believes that is too high (I don't, but perhaps the govt does) just reduce it, don't calculate a high number and then do this insulting adjustment. I mean really, this stuff is simple.
    He ought to pay a negative sum for having to eat that food. It's not as if he could nip out to a Sainsburys Metropolitan or M&S to get a ready meal if he didn't like the a la carte menu in HMP.

    Prison food came up some years back, HMIP report in [edit]2016: some time ago, but certainly covering Mr Malkinson's stay in HMP.

    https://www.justiceinspectorates.gov.uk/hmiprisons/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2016/09/Life-in-prison-Food-Web-2016.pdf

    "Spending on food in prisons has been decreasing. In 2014–15, the total expenditure on food
    in prisons was £54.1 million, down from £55.1 million in 2013–14 and £59.6 million in
    2012–13.8 The basic catering budget allowance per prisoner per day was previously £2.02.9
    All prisons now have the autonomy to set their own food budget dependant on local
    requirements and in some prisons as little as £1.87 per prisoner per day was spent.10 In a
    handful of prisons, this is supplemented by produce grown at the prison, for example, at the
    open prison HMP and YOI Hollesley Bay (2015), where produce grown in the gardens is
    used in the kitchens and offered to prisoners to use in self-catering. However, to put this
    into perspective, the average daily spend per patient on in-patient food services in hospitals
    in 2014–15 was £9.88,11 which is almost five times higher. This same basic prison catering
    budget needs to be used to purchase special-requirement meals (such as religious, vegetarian
    or vegan diets, but excluding medical diets), which can cost several times more than basic
    prison fare. It is also the funding source for celebration of religious festivals such as Eid, and
    for providing refreshments for family visit [...]"
    Sounds profligate to me. Need to get Lee "30p a meal" Anderson inside to help out to eat inside.
    His 30p is useless when you find you need fruit and veg, whioch are a recurrent theme. I was reading a report by a campaigner who'd interviewed a former prisoner. In that women's prison, they did market gardening - but all the food was sent for sale. When the prisoner left, first thing she did was go to the shop and buy a pack of salad and stuff her face - even on the train home she was nibbling the stuff.

    It's unpleasantly reminiscent of accounts of RN sailors with near-scurvy piling ashore and gobbling the fruit, or just the local edible herbs.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,039
    250….
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,163
    Andy_JS said:

    felix said:

    The already very close result in the Spanish GE just got tighter with PP gaining a seat in Madrid from PSOE after the counting of the votes from Spaniards abroad.

    Have they added the overseas votes so far? I know it doesn't usually change any seats.
    That's just what I said! 'votes from Spaniards abroad'
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,081
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    I still don't know what Bazball means.

    Even after looking it up.

    It is nothing more, nor less, than playing cricket with a complete absence of a fear of failure.
    It could have had a huge liberating effect on England players in the 1990s. That’s when the demons of self doubt had their strongest stranglehold on our players. No surprise the ones who still enjoyed some success then were the mentally tough who were most immune to criticism: Robin Smith, Thorpe and Hussain, Dominic Cork, Alec Stewart, Darren Gough.

    I remember someone writing about Mark Ramprakash, who probably epitomised the problem. In the nets and at county level the most talented stroke player of his generation, up there with Lara. But in England whites a rabbit in the headlights. Chris Lewis was another one, so was Graham Hick. We had some very talented players who just couldn’t deal with the mental pressures of test cricket.
    It could also be usefully applied to the present generation of lavishly talented England footballers

    They have the skills to win major tournaments. They’ve shown it. All they lack is the last varnish of self confidence in attack. And maybe a different coach….

    I fear there is no such hope for England rugby. Just not very good, despite a couple of promising youngsters
    Football is a strange one, because they get extremely limited time together at international level.

    At club level, they play very complex tactical systems which enables players to show this self confidence. You see Man City training ground, its nuts, all these weird different size boxes painted onto the pitches, and players know when X move to this box, I move to that box, etc etc etc.

    International football in comparison, every nation now can put out a half decent starting 11, who are at very least well drilled to stop the opposition. But there isn't enough time for the likes of England to develop the sort of tactical systems that Man City or Liverpool use to break down say European teams with style.

    It is why for instance Belgium tried for past 10 years or so to play the same tactical systems all the way through the age groups. So that as they progressed they were already well drilled in them.
    I'd say that the current England squad play with more self belief than any England team that I can remember, going back to the 1990 World Cup.
    But they didn’t in the euros final. Scored once and shut the shop. Or tried to

    They should have gone all-out for the 2nd killer goal That’s bazball
    Better than before though. They used to be half paralyzed by fear. It used to drive me nuts. 'Just forget results, concentrate on performance, enjoy playing, don't worry about losing' I used to shout (at the players, at the manager, when they appeared on the telly) ... 'things will never improve until you do'.

    They did listen eventually - to some extent anyway.
    I like to think I’ve played bazball with my life. Given two options I’ve nearly always gone for the one with higher risk but greater reward. And not worried too much about failure

    So I’ve had an intense amount of fun. Simply sitting here drinking beer in the Ukrainian sun for example

    However when this has gone wrong it has tended to go REALLY wrong. An emotional batting collapse
    Each to his own. Rather the opposite for me. For many years now I've cultivated an uneventful life. It was the only way.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,048
    On a train.

    A twat was playing some shitty drum and base on his phone. No headphones.

    I experimented, using a USB speaker my daughter had. He doesn’t like thrash remixes of Five Finger Death Punch.

    If he starts again, I have extensive list of Finnish bootlegs of minor bands to go through….
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,755
    ydoethur said:

    One question - will Moeen Ali be fit to bat? If he is, he's eligible to come in next.

    He's got his pads on.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,039
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    I still don't know what Bazball means.

    Even after looking it up.

    It is nothing more, nor less, than playing cricket with a complete absence of a fear of failure.
    It could have had a huge liberating effect on England players in the 1990s. That’s when the demons of self doubt had their strongest stranglehold on our players. No surprise the ones who still enjoyed some success then were the mentally tough who were most immune to criticism: Robin Smith, Thorpe and Hussain, Dominic Cork, Alec Stewart, Darren Gough.

    I remember someone writing about Mark Ramprakash, who probably epitomised the problem. In the nets and at county level the most talented stroke player of his generation, up there with Lara. But in England whites a rabbit in the headlights. Chris Lewis was another one, so was Graham Hick. We had some very talented players who just couldn’t deal with the mental pressures of test cricket.
    It could also be usefully applied to the present generation of lavishly talented England footballers

    They have the skills to win major tournaments. They’ve shown it. All they lack is the last varnish of self confidence in attack. And maybe a different coach….

    I fear there is no such hope for England rugby. Just not very good, despite a couple of promising youngsters
    Football is a strange one, because they get extremely limited time together at international level.

    At club level, they play very complex tactical systems which enables players to show this self confidence. You see Man City training ground, its nuts, all these weird different size boxes painted onto the pitches, and players know when X move to this box, I move to that box, etc etc etc.

    International football in comparison, every nation now can put out a half decent starting 11, who are at very least well drilled to stop the opposition. But there isn't enough time for the likes of England to develop the sort of tactical systems that Man City or Liverpool use to break down say European teams with style.

    It is why for instance Belgium tried for past 10 years or so to play the same tactical systems all the way through the age groups. So that as they progressed they were already well drilled in them.
    I'd say that the current England squad play with more self belief than any England team that I can remember, going back to the 1990 World Cup.
    But they didn’t in the euros final. Scored once and shut the shop. Or tried to

    They should have gone all-out for the 2nd killer goal That’s bazball
    Better than before though. They used to be half paralyzed by fear. It used to drive me nuts. 'Just forget results, concentrate on performance, enjoy playing, don't worry about losing' I used to shout (at the players, at the manager, when they appeared on the telly) ... 'things will never improve until you do'.

    They did listen eventually - to some extent anyway.
    I like to think I’ve played bazball with my life. Given two options I’ve nearly always gone for the one with higher risk but greater reward. And not worried too much about failure

    So I’ve had an intense amount of fun. Simply sitting here drinking beer in the Ukrainian sun for example

    However when this has gone wrong it has tended to go REALLY wrong. An emotional batting collapse
    Each to his own. Rather the opposite for me. For many years now I've cultivated an uneventful life. It was the only way.
    Why? You don’t have to answer. But a genuine query
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,313
    DavidL said:

    Should Stokes always bat at 3?

    I would say so when Pope is not available. But Pope looks to have a lot of potential in that position.
    45.25 is a decent average at first drop. Who was the last regular No. 3 to average more than that for England? Jonathan Trott, I think, by a fraction.

    https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?batting_positionmax1=3;batting_positionmin1=3;batting_positionval1=batting_position;class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=batting_average;team=1;template=results;type=batting
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,723

    On a train.

    A twat was playing some shitty drum and base on his phone. No headphones.

    I experimented, using a USB speaker my daughter had. He doesn’t like thrash remixes of Five Finger Death Punch.

    If he starts again, I have extensive list of Finnish bootlegs of minor bands to go through….

    Try this ...

    https://www.tobarandualchais.co.uk/track/20334?l=en
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,483
    felix said:

    Andy_JS said:

    felix said:

    The already very close result in the Spanish GE just got tighter with PP gaining a seat in Madrid from PSOE after the counting of the votes from Spaniards abroad.

    Have they added the overseas votes so far? I know it doesn't usually change any seats.
    That's just what I said! 'votes from Spaniards abroad'
    Silly me. Thanks for the correction.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,048
    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    Completely off topic, but commendable:

    The Oakland NAACP does something brave — and wise:

    "OAKLAND, Calif. – The Oakland NAACP has called on city leaders to declare a state of emergency due to rising crime, calling the situation a “crisis,” and has urged residents across the city to speak out against it.

    The group, alongside Bishop Bob Jackson of the Acts Full Gospel Church, issued the statement on Thursday, blasting both city and county officials, as well as social justice movements."
    source: https://www.ktvu.com/news/oakland-naacp-blasts-local-leaders-calls-for-state-of-emergency-due-to-crime

    Ever since I worked in a slum school on the west side of Chicago more than 50 years ago, I have known that most of the victims of black criminals are also black*. And that crime often causes poverty. But those are things you won’t hear said by the leftists on Martha’s Vineyard.

    (*That is true of other groups. According to reports I’ve seen, most of Bernie Madoff’s victims were other Jews. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that the Mafia mostly vitimizes Italians. And so on.)

    Cross posted at Patterico's Pontifications.

    And of course particularly with things like high retail crime, shops will just close, with means few jobs in those neighbours, which means more poverty, which means more crime, rinse and repeat. And we are already seeing it as the likes of Walmart exits completely from some cities.

    The laws put in place whereby steal less than $800-1000 bucks from a store and it is effectively a parking ticket has to be some of the most stupid laws ever thought up....and of course employees are not to try and stop this, otherwise they get sacked and the police, well they have been defunded and told they are all racist, so ain't going to rush there to issue the citation.
    Guess what happens when you defund the police, and elect useless state prosecutors who think it’s racist to charge people with theft?

    Commendable indeed from the NAACP, who see how things are on the streets, rather than how wealthy policymakers think they should be.
    And this cancer has spread outside of the traditional high crime areas / cities. Portland, was always a bit weird and wacky place, but safe and prosperous. Now downtown is like a scene from the Walking Day, and whenever the far left (and less so the far right) turn up and smash the place up, the moronic Mayor and local prosecutors, don't want to charge people because whatever -ist and historic oppression you want to choose.

    So businesses are just shutting up shop.
    Perhaps if the police could stop standing on the necks of people they arrest for petty crime, politicians might be more in favour of arrests for petty crime.

    Incompetently administered capital punishment in the street looks bad.
    In Portland they haven't been charging people for much more serious crimes than shoplifting.

    And of course the police officers responsible for administering capital punishment were correctly jailed. Despite the often touted claims that any young black unarmed man might get murdered by the police, the figures don't hold up. The numbers of individuals killed by the police is very high compared to say the UK, but it is armed criminals....lead to heavily armed police...lead to many more situations where its life and death decisions. And with the introduction of bodycams, police can't get away with anywhere near as much dodgy stuff as perhaps they did before.

    The issue of shoplifting not really being properly enforced has been on the books in some cities from before George Floyd and was causing trouble with organised gangs. But the word spreads and now it is a total disaster in quite a few US cities.
    Shoplifting is becoming a huge problem here too where it is unconnected with America's bizarre racial politics. Just this week the Co-op warned it might have to pull out of some areas.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66323140
    Yes I saw that report. Its also fairly common to smash and grab things like mobiles. But we aren't anywhere near the level of some of these US cities, where it was organised gangs who would hit a store, now its just every hour of every day, people come in and walk out with stuff, such they are putting chains across frozen cabinets to stop people just helping themselves to a tub of ice cream.

    The UK, particularly London, has a bit issue with phone muggings and moped thefts (to be used in phone muggings and smash and grab).
    I gather that sort of shoplifting, walk in, empty one section, walk out, has spread here, probably via TikTok or other social media uploading American thefts which become instructional videos for our lot.

    On mobile phones and smash and grab, perhaps there should be a new offence of going equipped, that is being in a small group of moped riders with balaclavas and no number plates.
    If I was Starmer I would be going big on making tackling this sort of crime a priority to seal the deal with the electorate. Also way more people care about that sort of thing than what is a woman stuff.
    Absolutely, it’s something the left, right and centre can all agree on. Police not bothering to investigate and prosecute thefts (usually because of resource constraints, sometimes incompetence) is something that affects rich and poor, rural and urban, north and south.
    Amazon are trialling full height, double security door systems on their Amazon Fresh stores. So you can’t just jump the turnstile.

    Apparently this is “exclusionary”.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,313
    Fewer than 50 overs in two sessions is pathetic.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813

    On a train.

    A twat was playing some shitty drum and base on his phone. No headphones.

    I experimented, using a USB speaker my daughter had. He doesn’t like thrash remixes of Five Finger Death Punch.

    If he starts again, I have extensive list of Finnish bootlegs of minor bands to go through….

    Playing the later works of FFDP must be a war crime under the Geneva Convention....
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,755
    24 overs in the session is absolutely ridiculous. Something serious has to be done about this over rate. They've even had a few from their spinner.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Should Stokes always bat at 3?

    I would say so when Pope is not available. But Pope looks to have a lot of potential in that position.
    45.25 is a decent average at first drop. Who was the last regular No. 3 to average more than that for England? Jonathan Trott, I think, by a fraction.

    https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?batting_positionmax1=3;batting_positionmin1=3;batting_positionval1=batting_position;class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=batting_average;team=1;template=results;type=batting
    That is surprising, I would have guessed Bell then Trott.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,039
    God, England should now be on the brink of an incredible Ashes win: probably better than 2005


    GRRRRRRRRRR the fucking rain in Manc and the fucking shambles of the cricket authorities. What a waste
This discussion has been closed.