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The Tories hang on in Hillingdon in massive blow to LAB – politicalbetting.com

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  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,401
    edited July 2023

    EPG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Interesting article, wrt Farage / Coutts, etc.

    "The problem is that these are ideologies that fail to realise they are ideologies. To many of their proponents, it is just a matter of being kind, doing good, keeping on the right side of history, and making life better for more people. Their virtue is self-evident, so anyone who opposes them is a creature of vice and must be resisted. And thus we find ourselves in a strange place, where the nice people are coercing us into becoming more like them.

    I should be happy about this. I am a Guardian-reading, Remain-voting, lockdown-supporting, double-Covid-vax-boosted Anglican who defends the BBC and wore masks more often than was strictly required during the pandemic. But it is hard to ignore the stirrings of a certain polite and cuddly totalitarianism (it would obviously laugh at the word and create mocking memes, rather than reflect upon itself meaningfully)."

    https://unherd.com/2023/07/how-coutts-destroyed-capitalism/

    This kind of one-sided left-bashing annoys me. Farage too thinks he is just talking common sense about uncontroversial ideas about sovereignty and control, when in reality he's an ethnic supremacist in the contemporary Russian tradition, spreading fear of Turks and Africans to get hours on the BBC.
    Separate to his right to a bank account. Being a twat should not be a bar to having a bank account. Indeed even fraud or money laundering cannot be a bar to having a bank account if we are serious in going cashless, although obviously those could be heavily controlled for people with previous.

    We should have a legal right to a bank account.
    The old National Savings Bank (via the Post Office and what is now NS&I) might have been the ideal vehicle but we are where we are. We will need something like this as cash disappears, but who will be the supplier? Surely we cannot legislate that everyone is entitled to a Coutts account.
    We can legislate that banks must give an honest reason when closing an account or refusing to open one.

    To be fair the government are (as a result of Coutts-Farage) inching in the right direction after a decade or two of encouraging ever tighter checks and controls without much thought about a balanced end point.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-clamps-down-on-unfair-bank-account-closures
    Coutts did have a legitimate reason to close Farage's account even without the political stuff. His next problem was several other banks did not want to open one, and what use would the honest reason be if that is just "you look like a pep and frankly it is too expensive to investigate properly"? Still no account.

    Issues around AML, KYC and source of funds are common to bookmaking and banking and many punters, invariably winning punters, have run foul of this ill-considered legislation.

    And it is not just bank accounts. I know a woman with a steady job in retail for the last several years who can't get a credit card.

    So well done to Nigel Farage for exposing this issue but it goes a lot further than whether one man can have a posh charge card that gets him into airport lounges.
    For many the reason will be, you are on list x provided by company z.

    The individual can then challenge company z if it is wrong instead of having a kafka-esque nightmare. Yes, this only impacts a tiny minority, but it is still important, and will become increasingly so as society drifts towards cashless and big data.
    Isn't Mr F a PEP anyway, under the rules? Anyone who is, or has been, a party leader etc. ... and he's certainly not avoiding politics.

    Also (but not specific to above)

    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2023/jul/20/bank-account-closures-what-new-rules-mean-for-uk-customers

    Guardian summing up.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,156
    viewcode said:

    EPG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Interesting article, wrt Farage / Coutts, etc.

    "The problem is that these are ideologies that fail to realise they are ideologies. To many of their proponents, it is just a matter of being kind, doing good, keeping on the right side of history, and making life better for more people. Their virtue is self-evident, so anyone who opposes them is a creature of vice and must be resisted. And thus we find ourselves in a strange place, where the nice people are coercing us into becoming more like them.

    I should be happy about this. I am a Guardian-reading, Remain-voting, lockdown-supporting, double-Covid-vax-boosted Anglican who defends the BBC and wore masks more often than was strictly required during the pandemic. But it is hard to ignore the stirrings of a certain polite and cuddly totalitarianism (it would obviously laugh at the word and create mocking memes, rather than reflect upon itself meaningfully)."

    https://unherd.com/2023/07/how-coutts-destroyed-capitalism/

    This kind of one-sided left-bashing annoys me. Farage too thinks he is just talking common sense about uncontroversial ideas about sovereignty and control, when in reality he's an ethnic supremacist in the contemporary Russian tradition, spreading fear of Turks and Africans to get hours on the BBC.
    Separate to his right to a bank account. Being a twat should not be a bar to having a bank account. Indeed even fraud or money laundering cannot be a bar to having a bank account if we are serious in going cashless, although obviously those could be heavily controlled for people with previous.

    We should have a legal right to a bank account.
    PB: legally making business take cash is wrong!
    Also PB: legally making banks taking clients is right!

    If you are going to make banks take on people, you're going to have to open a trusted third party bank - something like the old Post Office account.
    The deal with the banks was that the big ones had to offer basic bank accounts to the unbanked. Which they all do. However Natwest rejects half of those who apply for one, far higher rejection rate than the others, Lloyds only rejects 1 in 7 for comparison. Maybe there are legitimate reasons, maybe not, but the government should be checking up on this.

    How should the unbanked live as we move towards cashless? Unless they own their properties they are going to be homeless, probably jobless and pushed towards crime at best. Why not give them a limited bank account ffs?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    Ghedebrav said:

    Nigelb said:

    Girkin detained.

    Igor Strelkov, a prominent critic of the Ministry of Defence as well as of Putin and Shoigu, has been detained. This is a moment many within the siloviki have eagerly awaited. Strelkov had overstepped all conceivable boundaries a long time ago, sparking the desire among security forces — from the FSB to military chiefs — to apprehend him. The complaint came from a former commander of the Wagner Group. At this point, the source of the accusation is inconsequential — it does not come from Wagner in its current, let's put it softly, difficult state. Strelkov's arrest undeniably serves the interests of the Ministry of Defence. This is a direct outcome of Prigozhin's mutiny: the army's command now wields greater political leverage to quash its opponents in the public sphere. It's unlikely that there will be massive repressions against 'angry patriots,' but the most vehement dissenters may face prosecution, serving as a cautionary tale for others.
    https://twitter.com/Stanovaya/status/1682344849041764354

    He's certainly in a pickle.
    The fncker was responsible for the MH17 mass murder, so deserves everything coming to him, even if he never sees justice in a court of law.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,217
    Nigelb said:

    England fizzling out.

    Still ticking along. Imagine if the boot were on the other foot: we would be pretty convinced even with the rainfall forecast that England were going down to an epic defeat.

    And the recent flurry of wickets means I think we're going to have a crash bang wallop last few overs.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417
    edited July 2023

    Over rate is shocking from the cheating convicts. What are we on - 20 overs in 1 h and 45 minutes?

    22 overs so far with 10 minutes to go. England bowled 25 on the morning of day 1.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,491
    Peck said:

    It's not uncommon in big cities for much of the population to want to give the mayor the finger, as they did in Uxbridge yesterday.

    What will prevent Labour from winning the general election is this:

    1. They've got no hope of selling Camelot, because nobody hopes for Camelot any more - they have low expectations and just want to survive. (Blair sold a positive message in 1997. That was nearly 30 years ago. Things are different now.)

    2. The rightwing outplayed them years ago and has mindf*cked them in a "culture war" so that they are tied to what most people think is total bullshit - a) trans rubbish, and b) greenery. Don't get me wrong - people don't tell pollsters that they think trans & green are bullshit. They don't stand in public places and say it's bullshit either. They don't say it in the workplace, because they might get the sack. There are probably places where they don't say it because they might get called neo-Nazis, Trump supporters, or conspiracy theorists. But when they're in small groups of two or three, almost everybody says it's f***ing bullshit. Almost everybody thinks for example that Ricky Gervais's comedy piece ripping the piss out of trans rubbish is funny and that his message is accurate. Of course a male rapist with a penis in his pants who says he's a woman is a man. He's not a "trans woman". That's bullshit. I'm just saying the obvious but the left is so far up shit creek that they can't say this.

    Anyone who doesn't grasp or agree with the second point should look at the last Labour manifesto. It proposed the most radical program since Michael Foot's manifesto in 1983, and people really should have voted for it. Nonetheless, it was dotted through with references to transsexuals (16 in all - in the T in "LGBT") and made the utterly fruitcake promise of creating a million climate jobs. Why oh why does the left - that should be talking about class struggle - talk such shite?

    You get called a conspiracy theorist because you ARE a conspiracy theorist.

    The people of Shelby & Ainsty and the people of Somerton & Frome do not appear to have been put off by Labour’s and the LibDems’ positions on trans rights or green policies. The Greens, who are gung-ho on both counts, got over 10% in the latter constituency.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    Cookie said:

    Over rate is shocking from the cheating convicts. What are we on - 20 overs in 1 h and 45 minutes?

    Should either be you can play as late as required or ingame punishment like there is in T20.
    Worth noting slow over rate is not always down to the bowlers.
    Here it is, obviously,
    On Wednesday the slow over rate was definitely down to the constant delays, hold ups, batsman-not-being-readys, etc of the batting side.
    In T20, they attempt to account for these things.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 2,004
    edited July 2023
    Completely OT, but too good not to share - fast forward to the 24th(!) penalty for an all time classic moment.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJhFPjEFI1U
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,694
    Cookie said:

    Over rate is shocking from the cheating convicts. What are we on - 20 overs in 1 h and 45 minutes?

    Should either be you can play as late as required or ingame punishment like there is in T20.
    Worth noting slow over rate is not always down to the bowlers.
    Here it is, obviously,
    On Wednesday the slow over rate was definitely down to the constant delays, hold ups, batsman-not-being-readys, etc of the batting side.
    Should all be irrelevant on days with no rain affecting it. Just play the overs. I think it would speed sides up, as there is nothing to gain if you know you will have to bowl/face 90 overs, rather than getting to 6.30 pm.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,961
    500 before lunch hopefully.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    England fizzling out.

    Still ticking along. Imagine if the boot were on the other foot: we would be pretty convinced even with the rainfall forecast that England were going down to an epic defeat.

    And the recent flurry of wickets means I think we're going to have a crash bang wallop last few overs.
    At the moment, the scoring rate means we're just eating up time.
    Not ideal.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036

    Over rate is shocking from the cheating convicts. What are we on - 20 overs in 1 h and 45 minutes?

    72 ovs overnight, so 22 this morning.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    We need a lead of 200
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,081

    Leon said:

    Disappointing from England this morning.

    Yes, I agree. I don’t understand. Why aren’t they bazballing the crap out of everything?

    Get to a lead of minimum 200 by lunch, surely that’s the target?

    OTOH Stokes is an all-time genius international cricket captain, and I am - if I’m brutally honest - not
    Very confusing. England had loads of batting who can throw the willow at it. Brook can be incredibly destructive, but batted well within himself. Absolutely no downside in getting to 200 ahead all out than 6 down, if you get there quickly.
    Perhaps they are micromanaging the weather. Don't want to put the Aussies in until it gets cloudy.
    It sounds preposterous, but I wouldn't put that level of thought past them.

    That said, the way its turning now must have Anderson and Broad chomping at the bit to get on.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,694
    Andy_JS said:

    500 before lunch hopefully.

    I've watched England a long time, and if you had offered me 500 by lunch Friday at the start of the innings I would have been delighted.

    They have seemingly learnt a bit from what happened at Lords, where, need we recall, they were slated by many on this board for NOT batting like this and thus losing a chance of a greater lead...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,177
    Phil said:

    EPG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Interesting article, wrt Farage / Coutts, etc.

    "The problem is that these are ideologies that fail to realise they are ideologies. To many of their proponents, it is just a matter of being kind, doing good, keeping on the right side of history, and making life better for more people. Their virtue is self-evident, so anyone who opposes them is a creature of vice and must be resisted. And thus we find ourselves in a strange place, where the nice people are coercing us into becoming more like them.

    I should be happy about this. I am a Guardian-reading, Remain-voting, lockdown-supporting, double-Covid-vax-boosted Anglican who defends the BBC and wore masks more often than was strictly required during the pandemic. But it is hard to ignore the stirrings of a certain polite and cuddly totalitarianism (it would obviously laugh at the word and create mocking memes, rather than reflect upon itself meaningfully)."

    https://unherd.com/2023/07/how-coutts-destroyed-capitalism/

    This kind of one-sided left-bashing annoys me. Farage too thinks he is just talking common sense about uncontroversial ideas about sovereignty and control, when in reality he's an ethnic supremacist in the contemporary Russian tradition, spreading fear of Turks and Africans to get hours on the BBC.
    What does the contemporary Russian tradition have to do with it? Russia is a mulitethnic empire and this is something that Putin often empahsises.
    An Empire with explicit Russian Supremacy. Other races are supposed to feel grateful and pay tribute.
    Russia is an explicitly colonialist empire & they really hate it when it gets pointed out to them.
    As is China. Who are explicitly and methodically eradicating non Plastic Han culture. See Tibet etc
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited July 2023
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Disappointing from England this morning.

    Yes, I agree. I don’t understand. Why aren’t they bazballing the crap out of everything?

    Get to a lead of minimum 200 by lunch, surely that’s the target?

    OTOH Stokes is an all-time genius international cricket captain, and I am - if I’m brutally honest - not
    Very confusing. England had loads of batting who can throw the willow at it. Brook can be incredibly destructive, but batted well within himself. Absolutely no downside in getting to 200 ahead all out than 6 down, if you get there quickly.
    Perhaps they are micromanaging the weather. Don't want to put the Aussies in until it gets cloudy.
    It sounds preposterous, but I wouldn't put that level of thought past them.

    That said, the way its turning now must have Anderson and Broad chomping at the bit to get on.
    If that was the case you just rack up an even bigger lead before you declare. Its about not having to batting again (or a very small target) and maximizing time.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,223

    I absolutely agree with @AndyJS that the Ashes should be six Tests.

    And those venues should be:

    Edgbaston
    Lords
    Trent Bridge
    Old Trafford
    Headingley
    The Oval

    I have never been to the Rose Bowl, but am reliably informed it is in the middle of nowhere.

    The Rose Bowl isn't in the middle of nowhere, but it's not a great location. But, I'm told the same can be said of Edgbaston.

    I think five tests is enough. What is probably wrong is that the Oval always gets a Test Match. It's a bit of an error to not go to either Old Trafford or Headingley next time. I expect that mistake won't happen again.

    That said, it's not the first mess up. In 1999, neither Headingley nor Trent Bridge got a test match (only four tests due to the World Cup) in their centenary years as test match venues.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,694
    Nigelb said:

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    England fizzling out.

    Still ticking along. Imagine if the boot were on the other foot: we would be pretty convinced even with the rainfall forecast that England were going down to an epic defeat.

    And the recent flurry of wickets means I think we're going to have a crash bang wallop last few overs.
    At the moment, the scoring rate means we're just eating up time.
    Not ideal.
    I know the forecast is poor for sat and sunday. However I would say that in all my years watching cricket I do not recall two consecutive days totally washed out. Doesn't mean it won't happen, or that there will be enough time for England to win, but I don't think if we fail to win today, that all is lost.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,126
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    I absolutely agree with @AndyJS that the Ashes should be six Tests.

    And those venues should be:

    Edgbaston
    Lords
    Trent Bridge
    Old Trafford
    Headingley
    The Oval

    I have never been to the Rose Bowl, but am reliably informed it is in the middle of nowhere.

    The TV does give a good impression of it being in the middle of nowhere, but that couldn't be further from the truth. There are at least 150,000 people living within 2 miles of the Ground. Its 2 minutes walk from a massive M & S/ Sainsburys Shopping centre, a Mcdonalds, Next, Burger King KFC etc etc
    You make it sound like a soulless bowl amid a chain retail park! Exactly what should be avoided on sporting days out. The great thing about Trent Bridge, Old Trafford etc is that they are in the city close to bars and fun. Nottingham in particular is a corking Test day out. Great city.
    Old Trafford is clearly the best venue on the metric of being handy for my house.
    But compared to other test grounds it's situation is not quite as urbane. It is between an area of town best described as commercial, and a large council estate. There is a Wetherspoons and a football pub with a horrible mural of Cristiano Ronaldo on the wall close by, the odd chippy, a Nando's - but not much else. But the centre of town is a 6 minute regular tram service away (though if 20000 people are all leaving at the same time you may wait a few trams before being able to board one!) If I was watching cricket at OT and fancied segueing smoothly into a night out I would start by getting the tram up to Deansgate and going to the Ox Noble on Liverpool Road. Or else walking the fifteen minutes to Chorlton, where there is a great choice.

    Agree about Trent Bridge. Just a lovely venue.
    But you walk out of Lords and you can be in a Michelin starred restaurant in about 7 minutes. Or a Primrose Hill gastropub

    Lords is proper posh
    If you want a Michelin starred restaurant after a day at the Test you haven't been drinking properly.
    Fair

    But on my last visit to Lords - I may have mentioned it, Stokes hit the greatest century in the history of Europe and there was a naked knife fight in the
    Long Room - I walked out of the ground and within 2 minutes I was deep into St John’s Wood and lots of expensively beautiful young women nibbling quinoa and chaffinch egg salad outside chichi cafes and I realised that’s lords really IS in a posh location

    Possibly the poshest location for any major sports ground in the world?

    Queens Club, I would have thought.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,081

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Disappointing from England this morning.

    Yes, I agree. I don’t understand. Why aren’t they bazballing the crap out of everything?

    Get to a lead of minimum 200 by lunch, surely that’s the target?

    OTOH Stokes is an all-time genius international cricket captain, and I am - if I’m brutally honest - not
    Very confusing. England had loads of batting who can throw the willow at it. Brook can be incredibly destructive, but batted well within himself. Absolutely no downside in getting to 200 ahead all out than 6 down, if you get there quickly.
    Perhaps they are micromanaging the weather. Don't want to put the Aussies in until it gets cloudy.
    It sounds preposterous, but I wouldn't put that level of thought past them.

    That said, the way its turning now must have Anderson and Broad chomping at the bit to get on.
    If that was the case you just rack up an even bigger lead before you declare.
    Assuming you stay in, of course.
    The bowling has looked pretty threatening this morning. There is a lot of turn and the wicket is starting to look a tad unpredictable.
    Perhaps it's just difficult to hit boundaries every ball!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    Could really do with a very quick 25 here before lunch.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,916

    Leon said:

    Disappointing from England this morning.

    Yes, I agree. I don’t understand. Why aren’t they bazballing the crap out of everything?

    Get to a lead of minimum 200 by lunch, surely that’s the target?

    OTOH Stokes is an all-time genius international cricket captain, and I am - if I’m brutally honest - not
    Very confusing. England had loads of batting who can throw the willow at it. Brook can be incredibly destructive, but batted well within himself. Absolutely no downside in getting to 200 ahead all out than 6 down, if you get there quickly.
    Maybe Crawley and Root were playing better innings than we thought, and the conditions are harder to bat in than it appeared during their partnership?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,081
    Can't help thinking Jimmy Anderson must be a little underwhelmed with the sign announcing 'Jimmy Anderson end'. It looks disappointingly temporary!
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,871
    Nigelb said:

    Girkin detained.

    Igor Strelkov, a prominent critic of the Ministry of Defence as well as of Putin and Shoigu, has been detained. This is a moment many within the siloviki have eagerly awaited. Strelkov had overstepped all conceivable boundaries a long time ago, sparking the desire among security forces — from the FSB to military chiefs — to apprehend him. The complaint came from a former commander of the Wagner Group. At this point, the source of the accusation is inconsequential — it does not come from Wagner in its current, let's put it softly, difficult state. Strelkov's arrest undeniably serves the interests of the Ministry of Defence. This is a direct outcome of Prigozhin's mutiny: the army's command now wields greater political leverage to quash its opponents in the public sphere. It's unlikely that there will be massive repressions against 'angry patriots,' but the most vehement dissenters may face prosecution, serving as a cautionary tale for others.
    https://twitter.com/Stanovaya/status/1682344849041764354

    Looks like he's in a bit of a pickle.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,156
    Carnyx said:

    EPG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Interesting article, wrt Farage / Coutts, etc.

    "The problem is that these are ideologies that fail to realise they are ideologies. To many of their proponents, it is just a matter of being kind, doing good, keeping on the right side of history, and making life better for more people. Their virtue is self-evident, so anyone who opposes them is a creature of vice and must be resisted. And thus we find ourselves in a strange place, where the nice people are coercing us into becoming more like them.

    I should be happy about this. I am a Guardian-reading, Remain-voting, lockdown-supporting, double-Covid-vax-boosted Anglican who defends the BBC and wore masks more often than was strictly required during the pandemic. But it is hard to ignore the stirrings of a certain polite and cuddly totalitarianism (it would obviously laugh at the word and create mocking memes, rather than reflect upon itself meaningfully)."

    https://unherd.com/2023/07/how-coutts-destroyed-capitalism/

    This kind of one-sided left-bashing annoys me. Farage too thinks he is just talking common sense about uncontroversial ideas about sovereignty and control, when in reality he's an ethnic supremacist in the contemporary Russian tradition, spreading fear of Turks and Africans to get hours on the BBC.
    Separate to his right to a bank account. Being a twat should not be a bar to having a bank account. Indeed even fraud or money laundering cannot be a bar to having a bank account if we are serious in going cashless, although obviously those could be heavily controlled for people with previous.

    We should have a legal right to a bank account.
    The old National Savings Bank (via the Post Office and what is now NS&I) might have been the ideal vehicle but we are where we are. We will need something like this as cash disappears, but who will be the supplier? Surely we cannot legislate that everyone is entitled to a Coutts account.
    We can legislate that banks must give an honest reason when closing an account or refusing to open one.

    To be fair the government are (as a result of Coutts-Farage) inching in the right direction after a decade or two of encouraging ever tighter checks and controls without much thought about a balanced end point.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-clamps-down-on-unfair-bank-account-closures
    Coutts did have a legitimate reason to close Farage's account even without the political stuff. His next problem was several other banks did not want to open one, and what use would the honest reason be if that is just "you look like a pep and frankly it is too expensive to investigate properly"? Still no account.

    Issues around AML, KYC and source of funds are common to bookmaking and banking and many punters, invariably winning punters, have run foul of this ill-considered legislation.

    And it is not just bank accounts. I know a woman with a steady job in retail for the last several years who can't get a credit card.

    So well done to Nigel Farage for exposing this issue but it goes a lot further than whether one man can have a posh charge card that gets him into airport lounges.
    For many the reason will be, you are on list x provided by company z.

    The individual can then challenge company z if it is wrong instead of having a kafka-esque nightmare. Yes, this only impacts a tiny minority, but it is still important, and will become increasingly so as society drifts towards cashless and big data.
    Isn't Mr F a PEP anyway, under the rules? Anyone who is, or has been, a party leader etc. ... and he's certainly not avoiding politics.

    Also (but not specific to above)

    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2023/jul/20/bank-account-closures-what-new-rules-mean-for-uk-customers

    Guardian summing up.
    For a PEP the bank should have higher compliance duties, but not be allowed to use those costs against the customer. That is just freeloading.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533

    Leon said:

    Disappointing from England this morning.

    Yes, I agree. I don’t understand. Why aren’t they bazballing the crap out of everything?

    Get to a lead of minimum 200 by lunch, surely that’s the target?

    OTOH Stokes is an all-time genius international cricket captain, and I am - if I’m brutally honest - not
    Very confusing. England had loads of batting who can throw the willow at it. Brook can be incredibly destructive, but batted well within himself. Absolutely no downside in getting to 200 ahead all out than 6 down, if you get there quickly.
    Maybe Crawley and Root were playing better innings than we thought, and the conditions are harder to bat in than it appeared during their partnership?
    Stokes was still moving the scoring along, it was Brook who seemed a bit stuck inbetween. Bairstow now accelerating.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036

    Over rate is shocking from the cheating convicts. What are we on - 20 overs in 1 h and 45 minutes?

    Should either be you can play as late as required or ingame punishment like there is in T20.
    The 18:30 cutoff came from the broadcasters, when it was on terrestrial TV. No need to keep that now it’s on Sky, should play for the 90 overs until the light runs out. Especially in a match like this, where rain is forecast.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Disappointing from England this morning.

    Yes, I agree. I don’t understand. Why aren’t they bazballing the crap out of everything?

    Get to a lead of minimum 200 by lunch, surely that’s the target?

    OTOH Stokes is an all-time genius international cricket captain, and I am - if I’m brutally honest - not
    Very confusing. England had loads of batting who can throw the willow at it. Brook can be incredibly destructive, but batted well within himself. Absolutely no downside in getting to 200 ahead all out than 6 down, if you get there quickly.
    Perhaps they are micromanaging the weather. Don't want to put the Aussies in until it gets cloudy.
    It sounds preposterous, but I wouldn't put that level of thought past them.

    That said, the way its turning now must have Anderson and Broad chomping at the bit to get on.
    If that was the case you just rack up an even bigger lead before you declare.
    Assuming you stay in, of course.
    The bowling has looked pretty threatening this morning. There is a lot of turn and the wicket is starting to look a tad unpredictable.
    Perhaps it's just difficult to hit boundaries every ball!
    I don't know, Bairstow has eaaed to 30 at a basically a run a ball. Brook strike rate of .6 was too slow.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,081

    Cookie said:

    Over rate is shocking from the cheating convicts. What are we on - 20 overs in 1 h and 45 minutes?

    Should either be you can play as late as required or ingame punishment like there is in T20.
    Worth noting slow over rate is not always down to the bowlers.
    Here it is, obviously,
    On Wednesday the slow over rate was definitely down to the constant delays, hold ups, batsman-not-being-readys, etc of the batting side.
    Should all be irrelevant on days with no rain affecting it. Just play the overs. I think it would speed sides up, as there is nothing to gain if you know you will have to bowl/face 90 overs, rather than getting to 6.30 pm.
    Yes: at 53 degrees north, in July, you could easily play until 8.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,778
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Eabhal said:

    On the ULEZ thing

    Car taxation in London is extremely regressive. The poorer you are, the more you pay. Drive a 90k car and pay nothing.

    Regressive taxation is not popular. File that under water is wet.

    I will concede that. And that's why I think the whole taxation of cars/vehicles needs to be inverted.

    1) Abolish fuel duty - it hurts the rural economy
    2) Introduce congestion charging in all built up areas to replace the revenue
    3) VED replaced by an axle-weight tax (pot holes, pedestrian casualties etc)
    4) Zero-rate VAT on bikes.
    5) A simpler, progressive cycle-to-work scheme without the middlemen taking a cut

    Have all the tolls, LEZ and ULEZ, congestion charges etc, run on a single, central system, where you get a monthly bill paid by DD or card on file. Foreign cars also charged, with bills handed out at ports and airports.

    The people who run the existing schemes would really hate this, as they make so much money from disproportionate fines given to confused out-of-towners who don’t vote in the area.
    Also change the numberplate design and have government-run numberplate factories, as in the US and Middle East. Plate cloning is already a huge problem, and will only get worse as more of these schemes come into force. Make private production of number plates akin to private production of banknotes, with severe criminal penalties.
    Having the manufacture of them illegal won't do anything as the people who make snide number plates (like me) don't give a fuck whether it's against the law or not.

    They are trivially easy to make with a vinyl cutter. You can download the font and the yellow for the rear is #FFE900.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    Andy_JS said:

    500 before lunch hopefully.

    That was a great bet Sir.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,916

    Over rate is shocking from the cheating convicts. What are we on - 20 overs in 1 h and 45 minutes?

    Only way to fix slow over rates is to have teams lose matches because of it. I'm not sure I'm entirely happy with a match being decided by a slow over rate run penalty, but ideally teams would keep up with the over rate and not incur the penalty.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,081
    500!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Sandpit said:

    Over rate is shocking from the cheating convicts. What are we on - 20 overs in 1 h and 45 minutes?

    Should either be you can play as late as required or ingame punishment like there is in T20.
    The 18:30 cutoff came from the broadcasters, when it was on terrestrial TV. No need to keep that now it’s on Sky, should play for the 90 overs until the light runs out. Especially in a match like this, where rain is forecast.
    I completely agree. If rain is in the mix. Add hours BEFOREHAND when the weather is good

    Test cricket should be doing everything it can to avoid draws, especially weather enforced draws which are an absolutely dismal arse-ache for everyone
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,961
    edited July 2023
    England would have preferred to have just lost their 9th wicket rather than 8th because they would have got an extra 15 minutes before lunch. Lucky escape for my 500 runs bet, assuming Stokes declares at lunch.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,780
    I don't think Hazlewood was enjoying the over until that happened.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    edited July 2023
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Eabhal said:

    On the ULEZ thing

    Car taxation in London is extremely regressive. The poorer you are, the more you pay. Drive a 90k car and pay nothing.

    Regressive taxation is not popular. File that under water is wet.

    I will concede that. And that's why I think the whole taxation of cars/vehicles needs to be inverted.

    1) Abolish fuel duty - it hurts the rural economy
    2) Introduce congestion charging in all built up areas to replace the revenue
    3) VED replaced by an axle-weight tax (pot holes, pedestrian casualties etc)
    4) Zero-rate VAT on bikes.
    5) A simpler, progressive cycle-to-work scheme without the middlemen taking a cut

    Have all the tolls, LEZ and ULEZ, congestion charges etc, run on a single, central system, where you get a monthly bill paid by DD or card on file. Foreign cars also charged, with bills handed out at ports and airports.

    The people who run the existing schemes would really hate this, as they make so much money from disproportionate fines given to confused out-of-towners who don’t vote in the area.
    Also change the numberplate design and have government-run numberplate factories, as in the US and Middle East. Plate cloning is already a huge problem, and will only get worse as more of these schemes come into force. Make private production of number plates akin to private production of banknotes, with severe criminal penalties.
    Having the manufacture of them illegal won't do anything as the people who make snide number plates (like me) don't give a fuck whether it's against the law or not.

    They are trivially easy to make with a vinyl cutter. You can download the font and the yellow for the rear is #FFE900.
    Yes, because the current design is too easy to counterfeit. You need stamped plates as in the US, with a holograph sticker that can be picked up by cameras. Oh, and prison time for making your own.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,081

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Disappointing from England this morning.

    Yes, I agree. I don’t understand. Why aren’t they bazballing the crap out of everything?

    Get to a lead of minimum 200 by lunch, surely that’s the target?

    OTOH Stokes is an all-time genius international cricket captain, and I am - if I’m brutally honest - not
    Very confusing. England had loads of batting who can throw the willow at it. Brook can be incredibly destructive, but batted well within himself. Absolutely no downside in getting to 200 ahead all out than 6 down, if you get there quickly.
    Perhaps they are micromanaging the weather. Don't want to put the Aussies in until it gets cloudy.
    It sounds preposterous, but I wouldn't put that level of thought past them.

    That said, the way its turning now must have Anderson and Broad chomping at the bit to get on.
    If that was the case you just rack up an even bigger lead before you declare.
    Assuming you stay in, of course.
    The bowling has looked pretty threatening this morning. There is a lot of turn and the wicket is starting to look a tad unpredictable.
    Perhaps it's just difficult to hit boundaries every ball!
    I don't know, Bairstow has eaaed to 30 at a basically a run a ball. Brook strike rate of .6 was too slow.
    YJB has clearly decided to put his foot down.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,640
    ydoethur said:

    I don't think Hazlewood was enjoying the over until that happened.

    Maybe bat a few more overs after lunch to maybe get 30 more? Not likely to last more than a few overs in any case.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    Like an adult movie star, Australia get Wood before lunch.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,032
    edited July 2023
    24 overs in 2 hours is a disgrace. Fines don't really cut it, there needs to be a runs penalty for that.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited July 2023
    Do they go again after lunch? Try to get Bairstow to go full T20 mode for another 20-30 runs?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,694
    Sandpit said:

    Over rate is shocking from the cheating convicts. What are we on - 20 overs in 1 h and 45 minutes?

    Should either be you can play as late as required or ingame punishment like there is in T20.
    The 18:30 cutoff came from the broadcasters, when it was on terrestrial TV. No need to keep that now it’s on Sky, should play for the 90 overs until the light runs out. Especially in a match like this, where rain is forecast.
    BIB - is that true? I'd be surprised. Even local cricket has times that you need to complete games by (limited overs and you lose overs if there are delays). In high summer you could play until 9.30 a lot of the time.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    Perez bins it in practice.
    The return of Ricciardo seems to be getting to him.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,778
    sarissa said:

    Cookie said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Cookie said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    malcolmg said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    kamski said:

    MattW said:

    Good morning

    Congratulations to @HYUFD who said the conservatives would hold Uxbridge

    Also a lot of humble pie is needed by all those who dismissed ULEZ as an issue

    In the wider context the war against the car is not labour's friend

    I'm still not convinced by ULEZ as an issue in London - in a few outer seats, maybe, and imo not in the mayoral election.

    However it remains that around 90% of vehicles are *already* compliant, so the number of voters actually affected will be very small. Not sure how it will play electorally - we'll see. I don't see it saving Tory bacon - the outraged gammon vote in Outer London is not imo dominant enough.

    Perhaps it's more interesting in the other cities which are introducing Low Emission Zones across the country. Those places where there has not been investment in public transport are perhaps exposed, though there's not a clear correlation.

    This is a 2021 graphic, so it may have changed a little.

    I think it is the first evidence that the war on cars may not play into labour's hands

    It certainly played a part in Uxbridge and already we see calls to move the 2030 deadline for all new cars to be EV and here in Wales we have Drakeford cancelling all new road building, including the 3rd Menai crossing notwithstanding Holyhead is to become a free port, and the ideological change of all 30mph zones in Wales to 20mph by default

    It will be interesting how this plays out over the next 15 months

    Remember what happens when labour ignore WVM
    An urban speed limit of 20 mph in Wales is a lot like ULEZ expansion. It isn't the principle that is wrong, it is the speed and lack of thought in which it is being implemented.

    Transport policy is a disaster nationally. There are too many cars, not enough infrastructure (including alternative transport). Driving anywhere is horrendous, particularly in cities. Now that the current Government in Westminster have learned anti - green, anti- safety issues win votes, it is a situation that will undoubtedly get worse.
    This is the BS.

    Driving anywhere, except a tiny minority of the country in inner cities, is pleasant and convenient. Not horrendous.

    Driving is the most freeing, the most liberating, the most self-controlled means of transportation people have in the modern, developed world.

    Relying upon others, on 'public transportation' is a farce and a pathetic joke outside of a tiny number of metropolises, and it always will be.

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with private transportation. Either environmentally, once we switch to clean technologies, or progressively, or for a matter of convenience.
    Personally, I find driving a car is shit everywhere. A bicycle is way more enjoyable.

    Nothing wrong environmentally if we pretend hard enough.

    I know you like to be the king of wishful thinking, but isn't this a bit much eve for you?
    A bicycle is enjoyable for having fun. It is a social activity.

    When it comes to moving a serious distance, or moving multiple people a distance, or moving a heavy or bulky quantity of goods - nothing comes close to a private vehicle.

    And no pretence necessary. Electric cars are the future, not replacing an eighty mile journey to see relatives with riding a bicycle down the M6.
    Bicycles are also widely used for commuting. When I lived in Germany, I used to cycle 5 miles to work every day, unless the weather was particularly bad. As well as saving me money, this kept me fit and left more space on the roads for those who needed to use their cars.

    I would commute by bicycle here in the UK, but it's simply too dangerous and unpleasant, so that's another car added to the rush-hour traffic.
    The idea that bikes are inherently recreational rather than utility vehicles is quite silly. They ought to be a perfectly good way of making practical 2-10 mile journeys (like commutes). They can (like cars!) absolutely be recreational too.

    I don’t think anyone is seriously suggesting replacing cars with bikes for long journeys. But most people don’t make long journeys that often.

    Let’s be careful though, this thread carries an increasing risk of becoming about WFH.
    The country is not setup for bikes and most people will not risk their lives dodging arsehole drivers. Not a hope of us being like Europeans whist our politicians are shit.
    Neither was the Netherlands in the 60s - it took a lot of bold reforms and infrastructure against the run of public opinion.

    You’re right about our politicians being shite though.
    Bikes are semi situational though. The Netherlands has the great advantage of being flat.

    There is untapped potential still in the UK on this front, but in some places you’re just not going to persuade as many people that they want to cycle up a giant hill every time they come home from work or the shops.
    Plenty of flat places in the UK that could do much better with bikes. Manchester, Liverpool, plenty of London, loads of towns. We are way behind notably non-flat countries such as Spain, France and Italy when it comes to bike usage.
    There aren't many cities in the country where the terrain is hilly enough to be a real barrier. Sheffield, Bristol, Plymouth - I don't think any others. Nottingham and Leeds undulate a bit but not enough to deter cycling. Personally I'd rather have a bit of up and down on my route - for me, my nearest hill of any sort at all is the Warburton Toll Bridge over the Manchester Ship Canal, which is 7 miles away.
    The biggest lump I encounter is the bridge over the M60 by Sharston tip - though if I fancy pretending to be Tom Boonen I've got a lovely tiny steep cobbled hill by work in Jutland Street.

    Bradford, especially to the west, is quite hilly.
    Yes, I should have included Bradford.

    I know exactly the two hills you mean! You barely notice the bridge by Sharston tip in the car: on a bike it's Les Alpes d'Gatley. And cycling down Jutland Street would be insane!
    Cue a Four Yorkshiremen type discussion about the steepest/roughest climbs managed...
    Zoncolan, Angliru, Mortirolo and Ventoux. Only did the latter when I was 20 and on the hot sauce. I did the first three monsters in my 40s.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    DavidL said:

    24 overs in 2 hours is a disgrace. Fines don't really cut it, there needs to be a runs penalty for that.

    We should send them to a prison island.....
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,032

    DavidL said:

    24 overs in 2 hours is a disgrace. Fines don't really cut it, there needs to be a runs penalty for that.

    We should send them to a prison island.....
    I think they call that home.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,914
    BBC WATO going big on Rishi win in Uxbridge.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036

    Do they go again after lunch? Try to get Bairstow to go full T20 mode for another 20-30 runs?

    What does the weather forecast look like?

    But yes, go full 20/20 for 15 or 20 mins.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,780
    DavidL said:

    24 overs in 2 hours is a disgrace. Fines don't really cut it, there needs to be a runs penalty for that.

    10 runs for every over lost according to time in the innings, with a stopped clock for injuries and reviews, would concentrate the minds of cricketers wonderfully.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,961
    "Tim Montgomerie 🇬🇧
    @montie
    Let's pray for all the staff at Coutts. They'll be v busy tmrw closing the accounts of everyone in Uxbridge
    2:34 AM · Jul 21, 2023"

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1682202280156708866
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    In the end that’s pretty damn good. 506 runs. Nearly 200 ahead. If the weather deigns to smile just a bit more than expected - then we win.

    The pitch looks lively. Skittle the convicts for 185
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,694

    Do they go again after lunch? Try to get Bairstow to go full T20 mode for another 20-30 runs?

    I would. You only want to bat once if possible. I think we will have at least 90 overs more in the match. There are 246 over scheduled to be played yet. If we don't, then so be it. A game that shortened that we fail to win after dominating would just be bad luck, really.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    Andy_JS said:

    England would have preferred to have just lost their 9th wicket rather than 8th because they would have got an extra 15 minutes before lunch. Lucky escape for my 500 runs bet, assuming Stokes declares at lunch.

    I think they'll bat again just to get in the Aussie heads.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,694

    BBC WATO going big on Rishi win in Uxbridge.

    Straw meet clutching hand
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,961
    Sandpit said:

    Do they go again after lunch? Try to get Bairstow to go full T20 mode for another 20-30 runs?

    What does the weather forecast look like?

    But yes, go full 20/20 for 15 or 20 mins.
    Alex Hartley on TMS: put them back in the field for 10 minutes. Good idea.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,081

    Do they go again after lunch? Try to get Bairstow to go full T20 mode for another 20-30 runs?

    Bairstow and Broad in: a big hit every ball until they lose the wicket, then declare.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    24 overs in 2 hours is a disgrace. Fines don't really cut it, there needs to be a runs penalty for that.

    10 runs for every over lost according to time in the innings, with a stopped clock for injuries and reviews, would concentrate the minds of cricketers wonderfully.
    And put a useful premium on fielding a spinner or two.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,961
    edited July 2023
    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    500 before lunch hopefully.

    That was a great bet Sir.
    Thanks. Don't think I've gone from £10 to £250 before in two bets before. Nice mixture of politics and cricket as well.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,694
    Andy_JS said:

    Sandpit said:

    Do they go again after lunch? Try to get Bairstow to go full T20 mode for another 20-30 runs?

    What does the weather forecast look like?

    But yes, go full 20/20 for 15 or 20 mins.
    Alex Hartley on TMS: put them back in the field for 10 minutes. Good idea.
    I'd go one ball, just for sh!ts and giggles... But seriously, I think I'd take more runs right now thanks.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    I do feel a bit sorry for pb-ers who come here to chat politics - during an Ashes test
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    24 overs in 2 hours is a disgrace. Fines don't really cut it, there needs to be a runs penalty for that.

    10 runs for every over lost according to time in the innings, with a stopped clock for injuries and reviews, would concentrate the minds of cricketers wonderfully.
    The ICC's latest move was to err... reduce player fines for a slow over rate. The issue with making a 10 run penalty (For the bowling side I presume) is the batting side starts gaming it...
    We simply need earlier starts and potentially later finishes.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,401
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    I absolutely agree with @AndyJS that the Ashes should be six Tests.

    And those venues should be:

    Edgbaston
    Lords
    Trent Bridge
    Old Trafford
    Headingley
    The Oval

    I have never been to the Rose Bowl, but am reliably informed it is in the middle of nowhere.

    The TV does give a good impression of it being in the middle of nowhere, but that couldn't be further from the truth. There are at least 150,000 people living within 2 miles of the Ground. Its 2 minutes walk from a massive M & S/ Sainsburys Shopping centre, a Mcdonalds, Next, Burger King KFC etc etc
    You make it sound like a soulless bowl amid a chain retail park! Exactly what should be avoided on sporting days out. The great thing about Trent Bridge, Old Trafford etc is that they are in the city close to bars and fun. Nottingham in particular is a corking Test day out. Great city.
    Old Trafford is clearly the best venue on the metric of being handy for my house.
    But compared to other test grounds it's situation is not quite as urbane. It is between an area of town best described as commercial, and a large council estate. There is a Wetherspoons and a football pub with a horrible mural of Cristiano Ronaldo on the wall close by, the odd chippy, a Nando's - but not much else. But the centre of town is a 6 minute regular tram service away (though if 20000 people are all leaving at the same time you may wait a few trams before being able to board one!) If I was watching cricket at OT and fancied segueing smoothly into a night out I would start by getting the tram up to Deansgate and going to the Ox Noble on Liverpool Road. Or else walking the fifteen minutes to Chorlton, where there is a great choice.

    Agree about Trent Bridge. Just a lovely venue.
    But you walk out of Lords and you can be in a Michelin starred restaurant in about 7 minutes. Or a Primrose Hill gastropub

    Lords is proper posh
    If you want a Michelin starred restaurant after a day at the Test you haven't been drinking properly.
    Fair

    But on my last visit to Lords - I may have mentioned it, Stokes hit the greatest century in the history of Europe and there was a naked knife fight in the
    Long Room - I walked out of the ground and within 2 minutes I was deep into St John’s Wood and lots of expensively beautiful young women nibbling quinoa and chaffinch egg salad outside chichi cafes and I realised that’s lords really IS in a posh location

    Possibly the poshest location for any major sports ground in the world?

    Chaffinch eggs? Far too common. Probably snipe or blackcock or something posh.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    Leon said:

    I do feel a bit sorry for pb-ers who come here to chat politics - during an Ashes test

    It’s not as if there’s been any politics in the last couple of days, so no worries.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,640
    Leon said:

    I do feel a bit sorry for pb-ers who come here to chat politics - during an Ashes test

    Nothing happening in politics at the moment 😈
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,491
    .
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Tim Montgomerie 🇬🇧
    @montie
    Let's pray for all the staff at Coutts. They'll be v busy tmrw closing the accounts of everyone in Uxbridge
    2:34 AM · Jul 21, 2023"

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1682202280156708866

    This is a pretty brutal analysis of the scale of the Coutts PR fuck up. Their wealthy clients will not like this one bit

    Essentially they’ve Ratnered the “private banking brand” by going woke

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2023/jul/20/farage-affair-is-a-monumental-pr-disaster-for-exclusive-bank-coutts

    Coutts customers do not expect to be morally judged by some counter jumping pleb
    Coutts customers probably think they’re better than Nigel Farage though.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,032
    Sandpit said:

    Do they go again after lunch? Try to get Bairstow to go full T20 mode for another 20-30 runs?

    What does the weather forecast look like?

    But yes, go full 20/20 for 15 or 20 mins.
    Not so easy when you have 6+ on the boundary, something you can never do in T20. Probably need to hit less hard and run 2s
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,780
    Pulpstar said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    24 overs in 2 hours is a disgrace. Fines don't really cut it, there needs to be a runs penalty for that.

    10 runs for every over lost according to time in the innings, with a stopped clock for injuries and reviews, would concentrate the minds of cricketers wonderfully.
    The ICC's latest move was to err... reduce player fines for a slow over rate. The issue with making a 10 run penalty (For the bowling side I presume) is the batting side starts gaming it...
    We simply need earlier starts and potentially later finishes.
    Umpires give one warning to the batting side for time wasting. Then, it's 5 runs for every incident.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036

    Sandpit said:

    Over rate is shocking from the cheating convicts. What are we on - 20 overs in 1 h and 45 minutes?

    Should either be you can play as late as required or ingame punishment like there is in T20.
    The 18:30 cutoff came from the broadcasters, when it was on terrestrial TV. No need to keep that now it’s on Sky, should play for the 90 overs until the light runs out. Especially in a match like this, where rain is forecast.
    BIB - is that true? I'd be surprised. Even local cricket has times that you need to complete games by (limited overs and you lose overs if there are delays). In high summer you could play until 9.30 a lot of the time.
    Yes, Channel 4 pushed for it. They didn’t want to bump their evening schedule for the cricket, especially their flagship news show, having already bumped their daytime schedule for it.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    edited July 2023
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Tim Montgomerie 🇬🇧
    @montie
    Let's pray for all the staff at Coutts. They'll be v busy tmrw closing the accounts of everyone in Uxbridge
    2:34 AM · Jul 21, 2023"

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1682202280156708866

    This is a pretty brutal analysis of the scale of the Coutts PR fuck up. Their wealthy clients will not like this one bit

    Essentially they’ve Ratnered the “private banking brand” by going woke

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2023/jul/20/farage-affair-is-a-monumental-pr-disaster-for-exclusive-bank-coutts

    Coutts customers do not expect to be morally judged by some counter jumping pleb
    The Bud Light of ‘private’ banking.

    More seriously, a lot of companies now have a serious problem with ‘activist’ young employees, who believe they should bring politics to the workplace.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,401
    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    24 overs in 2 hours is a disgrace. Fines don't really cut it, there needs to be a runs penalty for that.

    10 runs for every over lost according to time in the innings, with a stopped clock for injuries and reviews, would concentrate the minds of cricketers wonderfully.
    The ICC's latest move was to err... reduce player fines for a slow over rate. The issue with making a 10 run penalty (For the bowling side I presume) is the batting side starts gaming it...
    We simply need earlier starts and potentially later finishes.
    Umpires give one warning to the batting side for time wasting. Then, it's 5 runs for every incident.
    They can tell when cricket play is unduly slow? I'm seriously impressed.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,956

    On the ULEZ thing

    Car taxation in London is extremely regressive. The poorer you are, the more you pay. Drive a 90k car and pay nothing.

    Regressive taxation is not popular. File that under water is wet.

    This is true. Also some employers offer free charging to employees. So you can have well-off people driving some very nice EVs, paying no road tax, nothing for parking in some boroughs, no ULEZ fee, and not even paying for their "fuel". Which is great for those who enjoy such perks, but loads yet more cost onto those that can't. Not that such perks will remain for much longer, they will have to end as EVs become ever more common.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    .

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Tim Montgomerie 🇬🇧
    @montie
    Let's pray for all the staff at Coutts. They'll be v busy tmrw closing the accounts of everyone in Uxbridge
    2:34 AM · Jul 21, 2023"

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1682202280156708866

    This is a pretty brutal analysis of the scale of the Coutts PR fuck up. Their wealthy clients will not like this one bit

    Essentially they’ve Ratnered the “private banking brand” by going woke

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2023/jul/20/farage-affair-is-a-monumental-pr-disaster-for-exclusive-bank-coutts

    Coutts customers do not expect to be morally judged by some counter jumping pleb
    Coutts customers probably think they’re better than Nigel Farage though.
    They won’t care about that. It’s the principle. How dare a bank morally judge its clientele and then dump them if found wanting? Especially a posho private bank whose sole USP is discretion and privilege and “of course we can arrange 17 Estonian hookers, sir”

    This is like a Monte Carlo 5 star hotel publicly turning away a billionaire because of his vulgar taste in cars, or wives
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,968
    F1: I see the official website has decided to hide live data and lap by lap text coverage behind the ironically named F1 Unlocked scheme.
  • SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 703
    tlg86 said:

    I absolutely agree with @AndyJS that the Ashes should be six Tests.

    And those venues should be:

    Edgbaston
    Lords
    Trent Bridge
    Old Trafford
    Headingley
    The Oval

    I have never been to the Rose Bowl, but am reliably informed it is in the middle of nowhere.

    The Rose Bowl isn't in the middle of nowhere, but it's not a great location. But, I'm told the same can be said of Edgbaston.

    I think five tests is enough. What is probably wrong is that the Oval always gets a Test Match. It's a bit of an error to not go to either Old Trafford or Headingley next time. I expect that mistake won't happen again.

    That said, it's not the first mess up. In 1999, neither Headingley nor Trent Bridge got a test match (only four tests due to the World Cup) in their centenary years as test match venues.
    Isn't the Rose Bowl the Ageas now?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    glw said:

    On the ULEZ thing

    Car taxation in London is extremely regressive. The poorer you are, the more you pay. Drive a 90k car and pay nothing.

    Regressive taxation is not popular. File that under water is wet.

    This is true. Also some employers offer free charging to employees. So you can have well-off people driving some very nice EVs, paying no road tax, nothing for parking in some boroughs, no ULEZ fee, and not even paying for their "fuel". Which is great for those who enjoy such perks, but loads yet more cost onto those that can't. Not that such perks will remain for much longer, they will have to end as EVs become ever more common.
    EV charging at work is absolutely a benefit-in-kind. It’s just the the taxman hasn’t yet cottoned on to it.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417
    edited July 2023
    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Do they go again after lunch? Try to get Bairstow to go full T20 mode for another 20-30 runs?

    What does the weather forecast look like?

    But yes, go full 20/20 for 15 or 20 mins.
    Not so easy when you have 6+ on the boundary, something you can never do in T20. Probably need to hit less hard and run 2s
    One of the great things about test cricket is the variety of fields you see and can set. You'll never see 5 slips in a T20 or ODI or 5 on the boundary (regs)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Tim Montgomerie 🇬🇧
    @montie
    Let's pray for all the staff at Coutts. They'll be v busy tmrw closing the accounts of everyone in Uxbridge
    2:34 AM · Jul 21, 2023"

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1682202280156708866

    This is a pretty brutal analysis of the scale of the Coutts PR fuck up. Their wealthy clients will not like this one bit

    Essentially they’ve Ratnered the “private banking brand” by going woke

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2023/jul/20/farage-affair-is-a-monumental-pr-disaster-for-exclusive-bank-coutts

    Coutts customers do not expect to be morally judged by some counter jumping pleb
    The Bud Light of ‘private’ banking.

    More seriously, a lot of companies now have a serious problem with ‘activist’ young employees, who believe they should bring politics to the workplace.
    Someone will move to fill the gap Coutts have now left open. REAL private banking. “Your politics are entirely your concern, Sir, all we want is your
    business”

    That’s a bit more tempting than “if you say anything vaguely right wing we might publicly dump you and call you a racist grifter”
  • Simon_PeachSimon_Peach Posts: 424
    For PBers of a certain age, Roger Waters is re-recording Dark Side of the Moon… today sees the release of Money… for those with Spotify:

    https://open.spotify.com/track/7iRrXZsgvBhfbSBt7B8Oy1?si=ivRBccYoT322RWUo49yS6Q

    It’s, well, different…
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,961
    "Uxbridge and South Ruislip CLP chair quits party after defeat, praising Corbyn"

    https://labourlist.org/2023/07/uxbridge-and-south-ruislip-clp-chair-quits-party-after-defeat-praising-corbyn/
  • Phil said:

    I bet 25% of current car commuters are commuting three miles or less. That’s a distance you can easily commute by bike & even more easily by e-bike. Probably in less time than it takes to drive for the majority of those that switched.

    For that scenario, I agree, bikes, and in particular e-bikes, make some sense. Though I do maintain that the best vehicle for short commutes is, if you can afford one, an electric scooter (the motorcycle kind, not the silly little stand-on ones). They beat e-bikes by having some weather protection and are actually somewhat useful outside of the commute.

    I looked hard at electrics when I bought my scooter last year, but they're not quite good enough to meet my needs. A real world range of around 40-50 miles, 4-8 hour charge time, the inability to use car chargers and the lack of storage space (it's taken up by the batteries) made petrol a better option. But with the rate of technological improvement I expect to have gone electric well before the ICE ban comes in.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,424
    edited July 2023
    Andy_JS said:

    Interesting article, wrt Farage / Coutts, etc.

    "The problem is that these are ideologies that fail to realise they are ideologies. To many of their proponents, it is just a matter of being kind, doing good, keeping on the right side of history, and making life better for more people. Their virtue is self-evident, so anyone who opposes them is a creature of vice and must be resisted. And thus we find ourselves in a strange place, where the nice people are coercing us into becoming more like them.

    I should be happy about this. I am a Guardian-reading, Remain-voting, lockdown-supporting, double-Covid-vax-boosted Anglican who defends the BBC and wore masks more often than was strictly required during the pandemic. But it is hard to ignore the stirrings of a certain polite and cuddly totalitarianism (it would obviously laugh at the word and create mocking memes, rather than reflect upon itself meaningfully)."

    https://unherd.com/2023/07/how-coutts-destroyed-capitalism/

    Wheras I get the point, the article does suffer from the usual Unherd problems, namely:
    • Having identified behavior, it infers motive and attacks the motive. The former is observed and (assuming good faith) a fact, the latter is speculation.
    • It represents the view of a member of the elite that another member of the elite is being treated in a way they disliked. I honestly doubt they would have made the point had it been somebody they didn't care about or they liked the way they were treated.
    [EDIT: point 2 reworded]
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,914

    BBC WATO going big on Rishi win in Uxbridge.

    Straw meet clutching hand
    Going even bigger on Uxbridge now. 21 minutes in and we haven't got to Selby yet.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Tim Montgomerie 🇬🇧
    @montie
    Let's pray for all the staff at Coutts. They'll be v busy tmrw closing the accounts of everyone in Uxbridge
    2:34 AM · Jul 21, 2023"

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1682202280156708866

    This is a pretty brutal analysis of the scale of the Coutts PR fuck up. Their wealthy clients will not like this one bit

    Essentially they’ve Ratnered the “private banking brand” by going woke

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2023/jul/20/farage-affair-is-a-monumental-pr-disaster-for-exclusive-bank-coutts

    Coutts customers do not expect to be morally judged by some counter jumping pleb
    The Bud Light of ‘private’ banking.

    More seriously, a lot of companies now have a serious problem with ‘activist’ young employees, who believe they should bring politics to the workplace.
    Someone will move to fill the gap Coutts have now left open. REAL private banking. “Your politics are entirely your concern, Sir, all we want is your
    business”

    That’s a bit more tempting than “if you say anything vaguely right wing we might publicly dump you and call you a racist grifter”
    This week has been good news for the Hoares and the Swiss.

    If there’s one thing that private banking stands for, it’s discretion. Not cancelling someone with a high profile, just because your staff don’t like their beliefs.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,694
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Over rate is shocking from the cheating convicts. What are we on - 20 overs in 1 h and 45 minutes?

    Should either be you can play as late as required or ingame punishment like there is in T20.
    The 18:30 cutoff came from the broadcasters, when it was on terrestrial TV. No need to keep that now it’s on Sky, should play for the 90 overs until the light runs out. Especially in a match like this, where rain is forecast.
    BIB - is that true? I'd be surprised. Even local cricket has times that you need to complete games by (limited overs and you lose overs if there are delays). In high summer you could play until 9.30 a lot of the time.
    Yes, Channel 4 pushed for it. They didn’t want to bump their evening schedule for the cricket, especially their flagship news show, having already bumped their daytime schedule for it.
    The playing conditions for test cricket at similar all over the world though. Also channel 4 had play start at 10.30 IIRC. The actual length of play is determined as 90 overs in 6 hours of play, with an extra half hour. I don't think that is the TV setting that.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,694
    Pulpstar said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Do they go again after lunch? Try to get Bairstow to go full T20 mode for another 20-30 runs?

    What does the weather forecast look like?

    But yes, go full 20/20 for 15 or 20 mins.
    Not so easy when you have 6+ on the boundary, something you can never do in T20. Probably need to hit less hard and run 2s
    One of the great things about test cricket is the variety of fields you see and can set. You'll never see 5 slips in a T20 or ODI or 5 on the boundary (regs)
    Local cricket, but one of my favourite memories of last season was chasing the last wicket or two in a 45 over game and having 5 slips, 2 gullies and a leg slip for our tyro teenage speedster. That he bowled the batters detracted nothing from the fun.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,081
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Tim Montgomerie 🇬🇧
    @montie
    Let's pray for all the staff at Coutts. They'll be v busy tmrw closing the accounts of everyone in Uxbridge
    2:34 AM · Jul 21, 2023"

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1682202280156708866

    This is a pretty brutal analysis of the scale of the Coutts PR fuck up. Their wealthy clients will not like this one bit

    Essentially they’ve Ratnered the “private banking brand” by going woke

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2023/jul/20/farage-affair-is-a-monumental-pr-disaster-for-exclusive-bank-coutts

    Coutts customers do not expect to be morally judged by some counter jumping pleb
    I'm amused that the Guardian has a 'wealth correspondent', and that he's called Rupert.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,914
    edited July 2023

    BBC WATO going big on Rishi win in Uxbridge.

    Straw meet clutching hand
    Going even bigger on Uxbridge now. 21 minutes in and we haven't got to Selby yet.
    25 minutes in and the loss of Labour's deposit in Somerton and Frome is the focus now.

    WATO suggesting Uxbridge looks like 1992. Labour can't seal the deal.

    Selby makes an appearance at 13.27.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,049
    Phil said:

    TOPPING said:

    And if I have to repeat it again then so be it but people aren't about to jump on bikes, even to go a mile or three if they are not a) youngish; or b) of the athletic type to start with. It is a huge faff plus you need all the kit plus it starts raining plus you need to find somewhere to put it plus you aren't sure where you will start and finish and so forth.

    In central cities you can use Boris bikes or their equivalents but this is only a small area (anywhere west of Gunnersbury or indeed if you want to cycle from Camden to Flask Walk you are stuffed).

    ULEZ zones just concentrate traffic in certain areas where congestion is made worse. I doubt it stops much traffic at all but would be interested to see the stats.

    This is just another example of perception vs reality. None of these things are really things that prevent you using a bicycle to get around, they’re just barriers that exist in your mind.

    I have commuted to work in jeans & a shirt in all weathers by bicycle. What is this ”kit” you refer to?

    In the modern world, e-bikes completely eliminate any need to be athletic, but honestly even before there was no need to be athletic for utility cycling: Out of breath? Go slower! Nobody cares.

    & I really don’t understand the start & finish thing. I start at home & finish where-ever I want to get to. Lock the bike up, done. Are there exceptions to this? Sure! But again we have this weird absolutism that if the bike can’t solve /everything/ then it doesn’t deserve consideration. I don’t use the bike all the time: Sometimes I (shock, horror, etc) drive! Or take the train. Neither of these invalidates my bicycle.

    It’s fine to not use a bike - lots of people can’t for a variety of perfectly good reasons! - but lots of people seem to have this idea about cycling that it’s somehow meant to be hard work or difficult or they have to do it all the time. None of these things are true: You can cycle a little bit, in ordinary clothes, at comfortable speeds, in whatever weather you’re happy to cycle in.
    Nah you don't understand because you are a cyclist. You need kit because you need a helmet and a lock and to know where and what to do at the other end and you might be in a muck sweat or carrying bags to/from Sainsburys, and, if you are in the UK, likely some wet weather kit. Plus you are running a risk several times higher than if you are in a motor vehicle and again, some people aren't comfortable with that.

    It is something that is for some people (young, and/or athletic) and manifestly not for others. It's a bit like cafe society - nothing stopping the UK being like France in that respect except that's not what our society is geared up to be like.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,640

    BBC WATO going big on Rishi win in Uxbridge.

    Straw meet clutching hand
    Going even bigger on Uxbridge now. 21 minutes in and we haven't got to Selby yet.
    25 minutes in and the loss of Labour's deposit in Somerton and Frome is the focus now.

    WATO suggesting Uxbridge looks like 1992. Labour can't seal the deal.

    Selby makes an appearance at 13.27.
    LAB big favourites but it still looks like 300 - 340. But as I mentioned on here earlier today if they are a bit short of 326 then they can rely on LD for confidence and supply, another 20 - 25 seats.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,049
    Cicero said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    I absolutely agree with @AndyJS that the Ashes should be six Tests.

    And those venues should be:

    Edgbaston
    Lords
    Trent Bridge
    Old Trafford
    Headingley
    The Oval

    I have never been to the Rose Bowl, but am reliably informed it is in the middle of nowhere.

    The TV does give a good impression of it being in the middle of nowhere, but that couldn't be further from the truth. There are at least 150,000 people living within 2 miles of the Ground. Its 2 minutes walk from a massive M & S/ Sainsburys Shopping centre, a Mcdonalds, Next, Burger King KFC etc etc
    You make it sound like a soulless bowl amid a chain retail park! Exactly what should be avoided on sporting days out. The great thing about Trent Bridge, Old Trafford etc is that they are in the city close to bars and fun. Nottingham in particular is a corking Test day out. Great city.
    Old Trafford is clearly the best venue on the metric of being handy for my house.
    But compared to other test grounds it's situation is not quite as urbane. It is between an area of town best described as commercial, and a large council estate. There is a Wetherspoons and a football pub with a horrible mural of Cristiano Ronaldo on the wall close by, the odd chippy, a Nando's - but not much else. But the centre of town is a 6 minute regular tram service away (though if 20000 people are all leaving at the same time you may wait a few trams before being able to board one!) If I was watching cricket at OT and fancied segueing smoothly into a night out I would start by getting the tram up to Deansgate and going to the Ox Noble on Liverpool Road. Or else walking the fifteen minutes to Chorlton, where there is a great choice.

    Agree about Trent Bridge. Just a lovely venue.
    But you walk out of Lords and you can be in a Michelin starred restaurant in about 7 minutes. Or a Primrose Hill gastropub

    Lords is proper posh
    If you want a Michelin starred restaurant after a day at the Test you haven't been drinking properly.
    Fair

    But on my last visit to Lords - I may have mentioned it, Stokes hit the greatest century in the history of Europe and there was a naked knife fight in the
    Long Room - I walked out of the ground and within 2 minutes I was deep into St John’s Wood and lots of expensively beautiful young women nibbling quinoa and chaffinch egg salad outside chichi cafes and I realised that’s lords really IS in a posh location

    Possibly the poshest location for any major sports ground in the world?

    Queens Club, I would have thought.
    Burton's Court, with some tennis courts and a football/cricket pitch, upon which 22 squaddies from time to time run around after a ball, is without doubt the sports ground situated in the very most expensive real estate, and poshest environment on the planet.
  • TabmanTabman Posts: 1,046

    Tabman said:

    Phil said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    I wonder if “anti car” policies are going to be the next “too many speed cameras”?

    The speed camera thing really helped the Tories in local government elections 1997-2010, though didn’t break through at a national level.

    The reality for many is they need a car, and it may very well be the case

    One of the big gripes, on the news here, from people affected by the Newcastle/Gateshead equivalent of ULEZ is thr lack of the promised grants to change their vehicles to less polluting ones.

    Just as when Gateshead introduced their anti car measures with regards to closing off Askew Road feeding into the Tyne Bridge, there was no carrot. They said they were not going to expand any Park and rides as they didn't have the money. It was all stick and no carrot which is what really led to the scale of the opposition.

    The only person I have ever seen in real life, and not on the local news when they round up half a dozen local cycling enthusiasts, cycling on Askew road is me.

    Traffic calming measures by Newcastle Council in Jesmond have not gone down too well with many, including the businesses affected, as these have been put in largely with minimal consulation and with the help of active travel lobbyists

    15 minutes cities and low traffic neigbourhoods are fine. All makes sense. But it needs to be done collaboratively not just by imposition, Some will always object but many on the fence or mild doubters are able to be brought onside.
    Yes, what’s driving opposition is the lack of proper consultation with those affected - as opposed to campaign groups in favour of the changes. Too many of these schemes are all stick and no carrot.

    If you want a 15-minute city, build a new one rather than imposing measures on existing cities.
    This is silly. Every existing city used to be a fifteen minute city - they all had to be!

    They can be again, if we choose to make them so. The current social contract is not set in stone, it is the consequence of decisions made by both national & local level planners & individual choices. Both are open to change - it’s the worst kind of mulish conservatism that says that the current way of doing things is the only option.
    I bought an old v large scale map of Manchester a few years ago. Tramlines everywhere in the 1930s.
    Yep. Trams are fab if done properly. They are even pretty good if done half heartedly but in that case you have to accept they will not get people off the roads to the extent the anti-car lobby want.
    Everywhere is different. I live 17 miles from my workplace, in a hilly part of the world. No doubt an electric assist bike would do wonders on the hills (including Brassknocker Hill

    SKS has done what many said was impossible, he achieved a swing on the level of Tony Blair, can anyone explain why this isn't a bigger deal?

    Context, I think. The opinion polls have been dreadful for the government for a year. And it was a by election.
    And your back!
    It's been a while since I cycled up Brassknocker (early 90s)
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,049
    Meanwhile my uncle at one point had some spare cash in his account so Coutts invested it for him, saying he wouldn't want it to be unproductive. He was furious and moved instantly to Hoare's. As in this instance no doubt it was the case of a (likely sole) employee overreaching thinking he would please his masters.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Tim Montgomerie 🇬🇧
    @montie
    Let's pray for all the staff at Coutts. They'll be v busy tmrw closing the accounts of everyone in Uxbridge
    2:34 AM · Jul 21, 2023"

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1682202280156708866

    This is a pretty brutal analysis of the scale of the Coutts PR fuck up. Their wealthy clients will not like this one bit

    Essentially they’ve Ratnered the “private banking brand” by going woke

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2023/jul/20/farage-affair-is-a-monumental-pr-disaster-for-exclusive-bank-coutts

    Coutts customers do not expect to be morally judged by some counter jumping pleb
    I'm amused that the Guardian has a 'wealth correspondent', and that he's called Rupert.
    Typo (Grauniad true to form) in the job advert for a new health correspondent. But he's aufully nice, so no one's had the heart to lay him off.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    Andy_JS said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    500 before lunch hopefully.

    That was a great bet Sir.
    Thanks. Don't think I've gone from £10 to £250 before in two bets before. Nice mixture of politics and cricket as well.
    Awesome, congratulations! I still owe you beers for your 2016 spreadsheet.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,914
    edited July 2023

    BBC WATO going big on Rishi win in Uxbridge.

    Straw meet clutching hand
    Going even bigger on Uxbridge now. 21 minutes in and we haven't got to Selby yet.
    25 minutes in and the loss of Labour's deposit in Somerton and Frome is the focus now.

    WATO suggesting Uxbridge looks like 1992. Labour can't seal the deal.

    Selby makes an appearance at 13.27.
    LAB big favourites but it still looks like 300 - 340. But as I mentioned on here earlier today if they are a bit short of 326 then they can rely on LD for confidence and supply, another 20 - 25 seats.
    Labour are not getting the media cut through they did in 1997. On WATO they gave Selby less than 2 positive minutes. Now they have a Con MP attacking Labour. So in total about 5 minutes on the Lib Dem win, 2 minutes on Selby and 28 minutes on the Con win in Uxbridge, Labour's loss of deposit in Frome and an attack on Starmer. In summary the narrative is a poor night for Labour, an OK night for the LDs and a great night for the Conservatives. At 35 minutes in we are now in Lebanon.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,424
    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    500 before lunch hopefully.

    That was a great bet Sir.
    Thanks. Don't think I've gone from £10 to £250 before in two bets before. Nice mixture of politics and cricket as well.
    Awesome, congratulations! I still owe you beers for your 2016 spreadsheet.
    As do we all, I think.
This discussion has been closed.