This is going well. That was unlucky. It is a good job that England bat deep. We'll get them when we field It looks like its going to rain, that will save us Well 2-0 is recoverable We've lost but we've got two tests to avoid the whitewash It'll be a different story in Australia
Additional: it's a group effort, not mine. @FrancisUrquhart has said the "good job that England bat deep" line more times than England have runs today
I keep meaning to write a thread header, but can’t be arsed.
In a nutshell, post-Brexit Britain should prioritise economic, industrial and security integration with Canada to create a moderate, liberal “hedge” to US hegemony within the Western order, and a powerful energy, finance and cultural player of 110m that stretches from London to Vancouver.
I quite like this idea. Canada is still one of the most moderately civilised places in the world.
The only amendation I would make is that i'd still like us to have close relations with our European neighbours, at the same time.
That would be one of the underlying premises. Anglo-Canada would seek stronger relations with Europe precisely to avoid over-dependence on the USA.
(And the UK needs to anyway for basic economic reasons).
And why not add Australia? Also has English common law, also part of the monarchy, for now?
It's hardly a new idea, but I heartily agree. CANAUK (NZ are a bit too pathetic and reliant on China for now)
It would be quite a mighty "nation", with enormous resources, great universities, global influence and oresence. We could cycle the parliament betweem London, Ottawa and Canberra
To be even more radical the four UK nations could join independently, making CANENGNIWASCO, which is a neat and catchy name in itself, and that would balance out the Scottish sense of being constantly outvoted by overdominant England
in fact I'd add Cornwall as a fifth nation, making CANENGNIWASCOCORN, and maybe make Lostwithiel the ultimate Federal capital of the entire new superpower
Because adding Australia lacks a bit of geographic and geopolitical logic.
UK and Canada are already both in NATO, and there’s only five hours time difference between London and Toronto.
But Australia etc could be a further leg. And you’d expect Anglo-Canada to have a v strong relationship with Australia from the outset.
To be serious, I do like this idea - always have done - but I disagree on Australianot being a good fit. Oz is a Pacific power, so is Canada - just different sides of the Pacific. And Australia is alrrady in AUKUS, an embryonic global NATO
And yes a big liberal English speaking power, able to balance the lunacies of the USA, would be excellent for the West - and the world
I know this is all in fun, but shouldn't we just make the UK and its economy work first? Do we always have to find someone to glue ourselves to to make things better? Talking about looking for love in all the wrong places.
Ran into Boris at the Brightwell village fete today, walking his dog and kids, and we had an amicable chat - I was midly impressed that, unprompted, he remembered my interest in animal welfare and said it was a shame about the collapse of the bsan on live exports. I last saw him 13 years ago, though we spoke briefly on the issue during the Brexit referendum. The ability to remember who people who you once knew slightly are and what they're involved in is something that many leading politicians have and I totally lack.
He doesn't have a nomenclator by any chance? Might have got the idea from his, you know, classical reading.
This is going well. That was unlucky. It is a good job that England bat deep. We'll get them when we field It looks like its going to rain, that will save us Well 2-0 is recoverable We've lost but we've got two tests to avoid the whitewash It'll be a different story in Australia
Additional: it's a group effort, not mine. @FrancisUrquhart has said the "good job that England bat deep" line more times than England have runs today
No mention of bat deep from me this test, because they most definitely don't with this lineup.
This is going well. That was unlucky. It is a good job that England bat deep. We'll get them when we field It looks like its going to rain, that will save us Well 2-0 is recoverable We've lost but we've got two tests to avoid the whitewash It'll be a different story in Australia
Additional: it's a group effort, not mine. @FrancisUrquhart has said the "good job that England bat deep" line more times than England have runs today
Highest successful Test match run-chases at Lord's West Indies 344-1 v England 1984 England 282-3 v New Zealand 2004 England 279-5 v New Zealand 2022 England 218-3 v New Zealand 1965 England 193-5 v West Indies 2012
Anything over 250 to chase in test cricket is incredibly rare in test cricket.
In August 2018, the Conservative Party of Canada voted almost unanimously to incorporate the organization's proposals as party policy following its annual convention, held in Halifax.
(In reference to the CANZUK lobby group, based in Vancouver).
Britain with prairies, and a Pacific shore. What’s not to like?
We could agitate to get Washington, Oregon and California to join and cut the mainland US off from the Pacific.
We want Hawaii.
Their flag is proof they want to be a part of the UK.
King Kamehameha wanted to have the protection of Union Jack for his own ships BUT without having to actually fly it.
Though that didn't stop Brits from THIS act of piracy, known as Paulet Affair aka "British Hawaii":
In August 2018, the Conservative Party of Canada voted almost unanimously to incorporate the organization's proposals as party policy following its annual convention, held in Halifax.
(In reference to the CANZUK lobby group, based in Vancouver).
Britain with prairies, and a Pacific shore. What’s not to like?
We could agitate to get Washington, Oregon and California to join and cut the mainland US off from the Pacific.
UKers already tried THAT gambit between 1861-65.
Best go back to the drawing board (or is it room?) to dream yet more horseshit.
Imperial Federation was also a thing from 1881 to 1931.
Indeed Lord Rosebery was Prime Minister and President of the Imperial Federation League (not at the same time).
A whole economic policy was based on it, called at various times Tariff Reform, Imperial Preference, Empire Free Trade and Neville Chamberlain's budget.
It didn't work.
Just as Malta's request to join the UK in the 1950s was rebuffed.
With the Bank Holidays and strike days, we had a spell of 4 consecutive 4 day weeks at school. My anecdotal experience was that the levels of behaviour and achievement soared. The kids were rested and ready to learn. The staff unstressed. Which led to a virtuous spiral. Absolutely no chance we'd get the chance of an experiment, mind.
As a counter, we had five and a half days a week (including Saturday mornings), finishing Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays at 6pm, with compulsory study from 7-9 every evening apart from Sunday and behaviour wasn’t an issue and we were rested and ready to learn. Maybe it’s not about the time spent at school?
I assume that's at boarding school?
Yes, but you mentioned an experiment and surely there is an experiment already going on where there are students spending long hours “in school” compared to the accepted timetable in State Schools where you can compare hours spent in schools against other metrics.
As I know absolutely nothing about being a teacher I can’t hope to know your experience but I’ve always wondered why the school day isn’t changed, with any necessary uplift in pay for teachers, to finish after 5pm for 13+ as it would have the benefit of freeing up parents to work a full day rather than having to work part time which would be good for parents, productivity and tax receipts surely.
Some of my kids have 4 hour plus per day travel time. You can't guarantee they will be fed or have a quiet, safe place to sleep, let alone study. Plus they all have a special needs diagnosis. You aren't comparing like with like.
In August 2018, the Conservative Party of Canada voted almost unanimously to incorporate the organization's proposals as party policy following its annual convention, held in Halifax.
(In reference to the CANZUK lobby group, based in Vancouver).
Britain with prairies, and a Pacific shore. What’s not to like?
We could agitate to get Washington, Oregon and California to join and cut the mainland US off from the Pacific.
UKers already tried THAT gambit between 1861-65.
Best go back to the drawing board (or is it room?) to dream yet more horseshit.
Imperial Federation was also a thing from 1881 to 1922.
Indeed Lord Rosebery was Prime Minister and President of the Imperial Federation League (not at the same time).
It didn't work.
Just as Malta's request to join the UK in the 1950s was rebuffed.
In August 2018, the Conservative Party of Canada voted almost unanimously to incorporate the organization's proposals as party policy following its annual convention, held in Halifax.
(In reference to the CANZUK lobby group, based in Vancouver).
Britain with prairies, and a Pacific shore. What’s not to like?
We could agitate to get Washington, Oregon and California to join and cut the mainland US off from the Pacific.
UKers already tried THAT gambit between 1861-65.
Best go back to the drawing board (or is it room?) to dream yet more horseshit.
Imperial Federation was also a thing from 1881 to 1922.
Indeed Lord Rosebery was Prime Minister and President of the Imperial Federation League (not at the same time).
It didn't work.
Just as Malta's request to join the UK in the 1950s was rebuffed.
It did for the US, and for Russia.
We federated with the US and Russia? I missed that.
I keep meaning to write a thread header, but can’t be arsed.
In a nutshell, post-Brexit Britain should prioritise economic, industrial and security integration with Canada to create a moderate, liberal “hedge” to US hegemony within the Western order, and a powerful energy, finance and cultural player of 110m that stretches from London to Vancouver.
I quite like this idea. Canada is still one of the most moderately civilised places in the world.
The only amendation I would make is that i'd still like us to have close relations with our European neighbours, at the same time.
That would be one of the underlying premises. Anglo-Canada would seek stronger relations with Europe precisely to avoid over-dependence on the USA.
(And the UK needs to anyway for basic economic reasons).
And why not add Australia? Also has English common law, also part of the monarchy, for now?
It's hardly a new idea, but I heartily agree. CANAUK (NZ are a bit too pathetic and reliant on China for now)
It would be quite a mighty "nation", with enormous resources, great universities, global influence and oresence. We could cycle the parliament betweem London, Ottawa and Canberra
To be even more radical the four UK nations could join independently, making CANENGNIWASCO, which is a neat and catchy name in itself, and that would balance out the Scottish sense of being constantly outvoted by overdominant England
in fact I'd add Cornwall as a fifth nation, making CANENGNIWASCOCORN, and maybe make Lostwithiel the ultimate Federal capital of the entire new superpower
Because adding Australia lacks a bit of geographic and geopolitical logic.
UK and Canada are already both in NATO, and there’s only five hours time difference between London and Toronto.
But Australia etc could be a further leg. And you’d expect Anglo-Canada to have a v strong relationship with Australia from the outset.
To be serious, I do like this idea - always have done - but I disagree on Australianot being a good fit. Oz is a Pacific power, so is Canada - just different sides of the Pacific. And Australia is alrrady in AUKUS, an embryonic global NATO
And yes a big liberal English speaking power, able to balance the lunacies of the USA, would be excellent for the West - and the world
I know this is all in fun, but shouldn't we just make the UK and its economy work first? Do we always have to find someone to glue ourselves to to make things better? Talking about looking for love in all the wrong places.
Britain needs some frontier mentality to re-energise its entrepreneurial spirit.
With the Bank Holidays and strike days, we had a spell of 4 consecutive 4 day weeks at school. My anecdotal experience was that the levels of behaviour and achievement soared. The kids were rested and ready to learn. The staff unstressed. Which led to a virtuous spiral. Absolutely no chance we'd get the chance of an experiment, mind.
As a counter, we had five and a half days a week (including Saturday mornings), finishing Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays at 6pm, with compulsory study from 7-9 every evening apart from Sunday and behaviour wasn’t an issue and we were rested and ready to learn. Maybe it’s not about the time spent at school?
I assume that's at boarding school?
Yes, but you mentioned an experiment and surely there is an experiment already going on where there are students spending long hours “in school” compared to the accepted timetable in State Schools where you can compare hours spent in schools against other metrics.
As I know absolutely nothing about being a teacher I can’t hope to know your experience but I’ve always wondered why the school day isn’t changed, with any necessary uplift in pay for teachers, to finish after 5pm for 13+ as it would have the benefit of freeing up parents to work a full day rather than having to work part time which would be good for parents, productivity and tax receipts surely.
But doesn't your suggestion imply 2 hours of sport (or voluntary service or whatever) every afternoon, on the private school model? That would need more playing fields than (so I understand) schools tend to have these days.
It doesn’t just have to be 2 hours of sport. And not all sport needs playing fields as there are potentially other sports and exercise options that don’t need the space. It could be a mix of sport, activities - art, crafts, drama, and yes, community service, cadet forces, anything but also that time could be set aside as a sort of “prep” time where pupils do what would otherwise be homework under supervision where the teacher supervising each class gets time to do marking whilst being paid rather than it being in their free time at home and pupils catch up on work in a solid environment rather than trying to do it at home where they might not have peace, space, equipment or might be corralled into other things.
"A minister has ordered a local council to end its experiment with a four-day week "immediately" over concerns about the "value for money" for local taxpayers.
South Cambridgeshire District Council, the first local authority in the UK to undertake such a trial, had announced plans to extend it until April.
Local government minister Lee Rowley wrote to Liberal Democrat council leader Bridget Smith to "ask that you end your experiment immediately" and say he had concerns about the "value for money" for local taxpayers.
...
"There is no good reason to end this trial, which is already bringing many benefits to council workers, local residents and saving the council money."
Council leader Ms Smith replied to request a meeting with ministers to discuss the matter, saying independently reviewed data showed "performance was maintained at the level shortly before the trial, while some areas of performance data saw significant improvement compared to recent data."
Perhaps a 4 day week should be accompanied by an equivalent reduction in council tax.
I think the objection is to the trial for tax payers that working hours were cut by 20% but wages are still at 100%, so basically a 20% pay rise for all those workers
That verdict should be for the tax payers to deliver (or not), though, not central government.
Should be remembered that most money for local government does come from central government.
Equally, I think the minister concerned is behaving like a fool. It's worth waiting to get some proper data from an extended trial.
Not that surprising admittedly, given he is a fool, but still depressing.
Is that true ? (Not his being a fool.) https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainer/local-government-funding-england … In 2019/20, local authorities in England received 23% of their funding from government grants, 50% from council tax, and 27% from retained business rates – revenue from business rates that they do not send to the Treasury. Unlike central government, local authorities cannot borrow to finance day-to-day spending, and so they must either run balanced budgets or draw down reserves – money built up by underspending in earlier years – to ensure that their annual spending does not exceed their annual revenue. But reserves can only be used once. Once reserves are spent, they cannot be spent again. Local government in England has very limited revenue-raising powers compared to other wealthy countries. In 2014, every other G7 nation collected more taxes at either a local or regional level, according to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development. Twelve percent of the UK's taxes were collected, or intended to be collected, locally in 2014, compared to 17% collected locally or federally in Italy, 30% in Germany, and almost 50% in Canada...
Apparently not. My information was clearly out of date.
In which case, he's an even bigger fool than I thought which is some achievement.
Just thinking that this discussion reminds me of the arguments about letting the proles have two weeks holiday each year, then Saturday afternoon off, then the whole of Saturday ...
(I always thought it was really shitty of the upper and middle classes to make the proles work 6 days a week and then shut everything down, like the parks, railways, art galleries, etc. so they couldn't do anything nice on a Sunday once they'd been to church or chapel. There is some really good reading on Victorian sabbatarianism and anti-sabbatarianism. There's a bit of that sentiment still in some folk, I suspect.)
Discussions about four versus five day weeks are, in and of themselves, bourgeois, of course. How many people working low wage crap jobs in a whole range of sectors (care homes and shops immediately spring to mind) get all their weekends off? For that matter, how many hard-up workers do more than one job, spread over six or seven days of the week?
Indeed, but on the other hand a 4 day week might actually help some folk - whether for child or oldie care or to double bank.
In August 2018, the Conservative Party of Canada voted almost unanimously to incorporate the organization's proposals as party policy following its annual convention, held in Halifax.
(In reference to the CANZUK lobby group, based in Vancouver).
Britain with prairies, and a Pacific shore. What’s not to like?
We could agitate to get Washington, Oregon and California to join and cut the mainland US off from the Pacific.
UKers already tried THAT gambit between 1861-65.
Best go back to the drawing board (or is it room?) to dream yet more horseshit.
Imperial Federation was also a thing from 1881 to 1922.
Indeed Lord Rosebery was Prime Minister and President of the Imperial Federation League (not at the same time).
It didn't work.
Just as Malta's request to join the UK in the 1950s was rebuffed.
It did for the US, and for Russia.
We federated with the US and Russia? I missed that.
I mean to say that US and Russian “imperial federations” survived (if not thrived, in Russia’s case) to the modern day.
Anyway, 2023 is v different. We have the internet. The world is smaller. And Britain’s geopolitical strategy is no longer centred on the defence of India.
With the Bank Holidays and strike days, we had a spell of 4 consecutive 4 day weeks at school. My anecdotal experience was that the levels of behaviour and achievement soared. The kids were rested and ready to learn. The staff unstressed. Which led to a virtuous spiral. Absolutely no chance we'd get the chance of an experiment, mind.
As a counter, we had five and a half days a week (including Saturday mornings), finishing Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays at 6pm, with compulsory study from 7-9 every evening apart from Sunday and behaviour wasn’t an issue and we were rested and ready to learn. Maybe it’s not about the time spent at school?
I assume that's at boarding school?
Yes, but you mentioned an experiment and surely there is an experiment already going on where there are students spending long hours “in school” compared to the accepted timetable in State Schools where you can compare hours spent in schools against other metrics.
As I know absolutely nothing about being a teacher I can’t hope to know your experience but I’ve always wondered why the school day isn’t changed, with any necessary uplift in pay for teachers, to finish after 5pm for 13+ as it would have the benefit of freeing up parents to work a full day rather than having to work part time which would be good for parents, productivity and tax receipts surely.
But doesn't your suggestion imply 2 hours of sport (or voluntary service or whatever) every afternoon, on the private school model? That would need more playing fields than (so I understand) schools tend to have these days.
It doesn’t just have to be 2 hours of sport. And not all sport needs playing fields as there are potentially other sports and exercise options that don’t need the space. It could be a mix of sport, activities - art, crafts, drama, and yes, community service, cadet forces, anything but also that time could be set aside as a sort of “prep” time where pupils do what would otherwise be homework under supervision where the teacher supervising each class gets time to do marking whilst being paid rather than it being in their free time at home and pupils catch up on work in a solid environment rather than trying to do it at home where they might not have peace, space, equipment or might be corralled into other things.
That would require a heck of a lot more staff. How do you supervise whilst marking? Almost all schools have after school clubs which do this already.
"A minister has ordered a local council to end its experiment with a four-day week "immediately" over concerns about the "value for money" for local taxpayers.
South Cambridgeshire District Council, the first local authority in the UK to undertake such a trial, had announced plans to extend it until April.
Local government minister Lee Rowley wrote to Liberal Democrat council leader Bridget Smith to "ask that you end your experiment immediately" and say he had concerns about the "value for money" for local taxpayers.
...
"There is no good reason to end this trial, which is already bringing many benefits to council workers, local residents and saving the council money."
Council leader Ms Smith replied to request a meeting with ministers to discuss the matter, saying independently reviewed data showed "performance was maintained at the level shortly before the trial, while some areas of performance data saw significant improvement compared to recent data."
Perhaps a 4 day week should be accompanied by an equivalent reduction in council tax.
I think the objection is to the trial for tax payers that working hours were cut by 20% but wages are still at 100%, so basically a 20% pay rise for all those workers
Yep but if productivity is the same as before and customer satisfaction is equal or better what exactly is the problem?
And from what I've read both of the above seem to be true - and other places have shown similar results..
The only way productivity can remain the same though is if they were wasting 20% of their working time doing stuff other than what they were being paid too.
Example Someone working on a council tax enquiry line, lets say each enquiry takes 10 minutes on average to resolve. Now there is no way you can make that faster. So under a 5 day week they would have done 40 * 6 = 240 calls. On a 4 day week they can do a maximum of 32*6 calls for 192.
Now if after each call they were spending a few minutes gassing with colleagues and now they don't and just do them back to back yes productivity can remain the same. However the answer is not reduce the working days but reduce the skiving off.
I went down slough council offices a couple of times when I lived there and you could see it in action. They would call a number, deal with a client then spend a few minutes chatting to the colleague beside them before calling another number. It was bloody infuriating.
A lot of things you cannot do faster so I am sorry no I don't believe productivity is the same just that they were poorly managed. Now in a trial I am sure they will give it their all to show productivity doesn't drop. Who wouldn't to keep a 4 day week....however once the 4 day week is embedded and accepted I fully expect them to return to dallying between tasks.
This is not just a public sector issue you see the same in the private sector, people scrolling on their phones when they are meant to be doing what they are paid for etc or chatting round the coffee machine.
When did it become okay for people to use their personal phones while doing a job? I'm sure it wasn't allowed in most jobs when phones first became available.
My relative who runs a construction company got complaints.
Because he restricted the provided WiFi on site and in the office to block social media.
No, he wasn’t grabbing people’s mobiles off them. Just if they wanted Farcebook or Twatter, it came out of the employee’s data plans…
The inheritance of social status: England, 1600 to 2022 https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2300926120 There is widespread belief across the social sciences in the ability of social interventions and social institutions to significantly influence rates of social mobility. In England, 1600 to 2022, we see considerable change in social institutions across time. Half the population was illiterate in 1,800, and not until 1,880 was compulsory primary education introduced. Progressively after this, educational provision and other social supports for poorer families expanded greatly. The paper shows, however, that these interventions did not change in any measurable way the strong familial persistence of social status across generations...
… Abstract
A lineage of 422,374 English people (1600 to 2022) contains correlations in social outcomes among relatives as distant as 4th cousins. These correlations show striking patterns. The first is the strong persistence of social status across family trees. Correlations decline by a factor of only 0.79 across each generation. Even fourth cousins, with a common ancestor only five generations earlier, show significant status correlations. The second remarkable feature is that the decline in correlation with genetic distance in the lineage is unchanged from 1600 to 2022. Vast social changes in England between 1600 and 2022 would have been expected to increase social mobility. Yet people in 2022 remain correlated in outcomes with their lineage relatives in exactly the same way as in preindustrial England. The third surprising feature is that the correlations parallel those of a simple model of additive genetic determination of status, with a genetic correlation in marriage of 0.57.
With the Bank Holidays and strike days, we had a spell of 4 consecutive 4 day weeks at school. My anecdotal experience was that the levels of behaviour and achievement soared. The kids were rested and ready to learn. The staff unstressed. Which led to a virtuous spiral. Absolutely no chance we'd get the chance of an experiment, mind.
As a counter, we had five and a half days a week (including Saturday mornings), finishing Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays at 6pm, with compulsory study from 7-9 every evening apart from Sunday and behaviour wasn’t an issue and we were rested and ready to learn. Maybe it’s not about the time spent at school?
I assume that's at boarding school?
Yes, but you mentioned an experiment and surely there is an experiment already going on where there are students spending long hours “in school” compared to the accepted timetable in State Schools where you can compare hours spent in schools against other metrics.
As I know absolutely nothing about being a teacher I can’t hope to know your experience but I’ve always wondered why the school day isn’t changed, with any necessary uplift in pay for teachers, to finish after 5pm for 13+ as it would have the benefit of freeing up parents to work a full day rather than having to work part time which would be good for parents, productivity and tax receipts surely.
But doesn't your suggestion imply 2 hours of sport (or voluntary service or whatever) every afternoon, on the private school model? That would need more playing fields than (so I understand) schools tend to have these days.
It doesn’t just have to be 2 hours of sport. And not all sport needs playing fields as there are potentially other sports and exercise options that don’t need the space. It could be a mix of sport, activities - art, crafts, drama, and yes, community service, cadet forces, anything but also that time could be set aside as a sort of “prep” time where pupils do what would otherwise be homework under supervision where the teacher supervising each class gets time to do marking whilst being paid rather than it being in their free time at home and pupils catch up on work in a solid environment rather than trying to do it at home where they might not have peace, space, equipment or might be corralled into other things.
I suspect that overestimates how much space there is in the average state school. The gym for instance might be rather more demanded in those circs than it normally is. Like new hospitals, schools seem to have been ground down to the absolute minimum space for the current situation with little flexibility.
Edit: for instance, where does one put the armoury for the cadet force?
And supervising while marking ... But there is certainly a wider question of why the working day in the state school is as it is, bearing in mind the travel issue.
In August 2018, the Conservative Party of Canada voted almost unanimously to incorporate the organization's proposals as party policy following its annual convention, held in Halifax.
(In reference to the CANZUK lobby group, based in Vancouver).
Britain with prairies, and a Pacific shore. What’s not to like?
We could agitate to get Washington, Oregon and California to join and cut the mainland US off from the Pacific.
UKers already tried THAT gambit between 1861-65.
Best go back to the drawing board (or is it room?) to dream yet more horseshit.
Perhaps you're right. The incompatible sense of humour makes it unworkable.
With the Bank Holidays and strike days, we had a spell of 4 consecutive 4 day weeks at school. My anecdotal experience was that the levels of behaviour and achievement soared. The kids were rested and ready to learn. The staff unstressed. Which led to a virtuous spiral. Absolutely no chance we'd get the chance of an experiment, mind.
As a counter, we had five and a half days a week (including Saturday mornings), finishing Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays at 6pm, with compulsory study from 7-9 every evening apart from Sunday and behaviour wasn’t an issue and we were rested and ready to learn. Maybe it’s not about the time spent at school?
I assume that's at boarding school?
Yes, but you mentioned an experiment and surely there is an experiment already going on where there are students spending long hours “in school” compared to the accepted timetable in State Schools where you can compare hours spent in schools against other metrics.
As I know absolutely nothing about being a teacher I can’t hope to know your experience but I’ve always wondered why the school day isn’t changed, with any necessary uplift in pay for teachers, to finish after 5pm for 13+ as it would have the benefit of freeing up parents to work a full day rather than having to work part time which would be good for parents, productivity and tax receipts surely.
Some of my kids have 4 hour plus per day travel time. You can't guarantee they will be fed or have a quiet, safe place to sleep, let alone study. Plus they all have a special needs diagnosis. You aren't comparing like with like.
With the Bank Holidays and strike days, we had a spell of 4 consecutive 4 day weeks at school. My anecdotal experience was that the levels of behaviour and achievement soared. The kids were rested and ready to learn. The staff unstressed. Which led to a virtuous spiral. Absolutely no chance we'd get the chance of an experiment, mind.
As a counter, we had five and a half days a week (including Saturday mornings), finishing Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays at 6pm, with compulsory study from 7-9 every evening apart from Sunday and behaviour wasn’t an issue and we were rested and ready to learn. Maybe it’s not about the time spent at school?
I assume that's at boarding school?
Yes, but you mentioned an experiment and surely there is an experiment already going on where there are students spending long hours “in school” compared to the accepted timetable in State Schools where you can compare hours spent in schools against other metrics.
As I know absolutely nothing about being a teacher I can’t hope to know your experience but I’ve always wondered why the school day isn’t changed, with any necessary uplift in pay for teachers, to finish after 5pm for 13+ as it would have the benefit of freeing up parents to work a full day rather than having to work part time which would be good for parents, productivity and tax receipts surely.
Some of my kids have 4 hour plus per day travel time. You can't guarantee they will be fed or have a quiet, safe place to sleep, let alone study. Plus they all have a special needs diagnosis. You aren't comparing like with like.
I accept totally that I’m not comparing like with like but it’s absolutely outrageous that kids would have a 4 hour travel to school and that needs fixing. I’m also a strong believer that the gov should pay to feed kids at school whatever the cost so if a longer school day dovetailed with all kids getting three meals a day then it’s surely a win?
Sorry, I haven’t really thought it out but it just seems like the current model is largely accepted and there does need to be a serious experiment of changing school hours for the benefit of children and society. I clearly don’t have the answers but it seems it isn’t right as it is.
In last two days, Poland's prime minister has talked about acquiring nuclear weapons, hinted at the need for martial law, and said Poland is under equal threat from Wagner in the east and from German Christian democrats, linked to the Polish democratic opposition, in the west. https://twitter.com/anneapplebaum/status/1675164589569310720
Talking down to Poland, by Germany, for years, has proved to have been a brilliant plan.
In last two days, Poland's prime minister has talked about acquiring nuclear weapons, hinted at the need for martial law, and said Poland is under equal threat from Wagner in the east and from German Christian democrats, linked to the Polish democratic opposition, in the west. https://twitter.com/anneapplebaum/status/1675164589569310720
Talking down to Poland, by Germany, for years, has proved to have been a brilliant plan.
There's also a lot of bad blood between Macron and Morawiecki over France's high-handed attitude towards Poland.
The inheritance of social status: England, 1600 to 2022 https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2300926120 There is widespread belief across the social sciences in the ability of social interventions and social institutions to significantly influence rates of social mobility. In England, 1600 to 2022, we see considerable change in social institutions across time. Half the population was illiterate in 1,800, and not until 1,880 was compulsory primary education introduced. Progressively after this, educational provision and other social supports for poorer families expanded greatly. The paper shows, however, that these interventions did not change in any measurable way the strong familial persistence of social status across generations...
… Abstract
A lineage of 422,374 English people (1600 to 2022) contains correlations in social outcomes among relatives as distant as 4th cousins. These correlations show striking patterns. The first is the strong persistence of social status across family trees. Correlations decline by a factor of only 0.79 across each generation. Even fourth cousins, with a common ancestor only five generations earlier, show significant status correlations. The second remarkable feature is that the decline in correlation with genetic distance in the lineage is unchanged from 1600 to 2022. Vast social changes in England between 1600 and 2022 would have been expected to increase social mobility. Yet people in 2022 remain correlated in outcomes with their lineage relatives in exactly the same way as in preindustrial England. The third surprising feature is that the correlations parallel those of a simple model of additive genetic determination of status, with a genetic correlation in marriage of 0.57.
As I know absolutely nothing about being a teacher I can’t hope to know your experience but I’ve always wondered why the school day isn’t changed, with any necessary uplift in pay for teachers, to finish after 5pm for 13+ as it would have the benefit of freeing up parents to work a full day rather than having to work part time which would be good for parents, productivity and tax receipts surely.
I'm going to guess that that "necessary uplift in pay" part is a big chunk of the reason. "We should change the way we've always done things, in a way that involves a lot more money being spent, with a theoretical and hard to measure gain" is always a hard sell...
Anglo-Canada would have roughly the same trade volume with the US as with the EU, together about 70% of volume. Asia Pacific economies probably another 25%.
I keep meaning to write a thread header, but can’t be arsed.
In a nutshell, post-Brexit Britain should prioritise economic, industrial and security integration with Canada to create a moderate, liberal “hedge” to US hegemony within the Western order, and a powerful energy, finance and cultural player of 110m that stretches from London to Vancouver.
I quite like this idea. Canada is still one of the most moderately civilised places in the world.
The only amendation I would make is that i'd still like us to have close relations with our European neighbours, at the same time.
That would be one of the underlying premises. Anglo-Canada would seek stronger relations with Europe precisely to avoid over-dependence on the USA.
(And the UK needs to anyway for basic economic reasons).
And why not add Australia? Also has English common law, also part of the monarchy, for now?
It's hardly a new idea, but I heartily agree. CANAUK (NZ are a bit too pathetic and reliant on China for now)
It would be quite a mighty "nation", with enormous resources, great universities, global influence and oresence. We could cycle the parliament betweem London, Ottawa and Canberra
To be even more radical the four UK nations could join independently, making CANENGNIWASCO, which is a neat and catchy name in itself, and that would balance out the Scottish sense of being constantly outvoted by overdominant England
in fact I'd add Cornwall as a fifth nation, making CANENGNIWASCOCORN, and maybe make Lostwithiel the ultimate Federal capital of the entire new superpower
Because adding Australia lacks a bit of geographic and geopolitical logic.
UK and Canada are already both in NATO, and there’s only five hours time difference between London and Toronto.
But Australia etc could be a further leg. And you’d expect Anglo-Canada to have a v strong relationship with Australia from the outset.
To be serious, I do like this idea - always have done - but I disagree on Australianot being a good fit. Oz is a Pacific power, so is Canada - just different sides of the Pacific. And Australia is alrrady in AUKUS, an embryonic global NATO
And yes a big liberal English speaking power, able to balance the lunacies of the USA, would be excellent for the West - and the world
I know this is all in fun, but shouldn't we just make the UK and its economy work first? Do we always have to find someone to glue ourselves to to make things better? Talking about looking for love in all the wrong places.
Britain needs some frontier mentality to re-energise its entrepreneurial spirit.
Britain needs to (a) stop indulging in cakeist fantasies and make a realistic assessment of what can be achieved and what we want to achieve, and (b) desist from structuring everything around the needs of wealthy people over the age of 50, to the detriment/exclusion of everyone else. After that, we'll see where we end up.
"A minister has ordered a local council to end its experiment with a four-day week "immediately" over concerns about the "value for money" for local taxpayers.
South Cambridgeshire District Council, the first local authority in the UK to undertake such a trial, had announced plans to extend it until April.
Local government minister Lee Rowley wrote to Liberal Democrat council leader Bridget Smith to "ask that you end your experiment immediately" and say he had concerns about the "value for money" for local taxpayers.
...
"There is no good reason to end this trial, which is already bringing many benefits to council workers, local residents and saving the council money."
Council leader Ms Smith replied to request a meeting with ministers to discuss the matter, saying independently reviewed data showed "performance was maintained at the level shortly before the trial, while some areas of performance data saw significant improvement compared to recent data."
Perhaps a 4 day week should be accompanied by an equivalent reduction in council tax.
I think the objection is to the trial for tax payers that working hours were cut by 20% but wages are still at 100%, so basically a 20% pay rise for all those workers
Yep but if productivity is the same as before and customer satisfaction is equal or better what exactly is the problem?
And from what I've read both of the above seem to be true - and other places have shown similar results..
The only way productivity can remain the same though is if they were wasting 20% of their working time doing stuff other than what they were being paid too.
Example Someone working on a council tax enquiry line, lets say each enquiry takes 10 minutes on average to resolve. Now there is no way you can make that faster. So under a 5 day week they would have done 40 * 6 = 240 calls. On a 4 day week they can do a maximum of 32*6 calls for 192.
Now if after each call they were spending a few minutes gassing with colleagues and now they don't and just do them back to back yes productivity can remain the same. However the answer is not reduce the working days but reduce the skiving off.
I went down slough council offices a couple of times when I lived there and you could see it in action. They would call a number, deal with a client then spend a few minutes chatting to the colleague beside them before calling another number. It was bloody infuriating.
A lot of things you cannot do faster so I am sorry no I don't believe productivity is the same just that they were poorly managed. Now in a trial I am sure they will give it their all to show productivity doesn't drop. Who wouldn't to keep a 4 day week....however once the 4 day week is embedded and accepted I fully expect them to return to dallying between tasks.
This is not just a public sector issue you see the same in the private sector, people scrolling on their phones when they are meant to be doing what they are paid for etc or chatting round the coffee machine.
When did it become okay for people to use their personal phones while doing a job? I'm sure it wasn't allowed in most jobs when phones first became available.
My relative who runs a construction company got complaints.
Because he restricted the provided WiFi on site and in the office to block social media.
No, he wasn’t grabbing people’s mobiles off them. Just if they wanted Farcebook or Twatter, it came out of the employee’s data plans…
Does that not just come across as him being a massive cheapskate?
Anglo-Canada would have roughly the same trade volume with the US as with the EU, together about 70% of volume. Asia Pacific economies probably another 25%.
They’re going to need to check the White House fire alarms if this happens.
Anglo-Canada would have roughly the same trade volume with the US as with the EU, together about 70% of volume. Asia Pacific economies probably another 25%.
In an acknowledgement of the posiiton of Quebec, we could join the Francophonie and France could join the Commonwealth in a new Entente Cordiale.
In last two days, Poland's prime minister has talked about acquiring nuclear weapons, hinted at the need for martial law, and said Poland is under equal threat from Wagner in the east and from German Christian democrats, linked to the Polish democratic opposition, in the west. https://twitter.com/anneapplebaum/status/1675164589569310720
Talking down to Poland, by Germany, for years, has proved to have been a brilliant plan.
There's also a lot of bad blood between Macron and Morawiecki over France's high-handed attitude towards Poland.
The Poles I know are the liberal bunch - they equate the current government with Putinism.
They are united in believing that Germany and France regard Eastern Europe as something to be negotiated with Russia. As in a bargaining chip. They also believe that Poland needs to arm to the teeth, 100% back the other Eastern European nations of like mind (Baltics, Ukraine). Oh, and fuck over Germany and France in terms of foreign policy.
The comment - “we will sell *their* interests” came up a few times.
I keep meaning to write a thread header, but can’t be arsed.
In a nutshell, post-Brexit Britain should prioritise economic, industrial and security integration with Canada to create a moderate, liberal “hedge” to US hegemony within the Western order, and a powerful energy, finance and cultural player of 110m that stretches from London to Vancouver.
I quite like this idea. Canada is still one of the most moderately civilised places in the world.
The only amendation I would make is that i'd still like us to have close relations with our European neighbours, at the same time.
That would be one of the underlying premises. Anglo-Canada would seek stronger relations with Europe precisely to avoid over-dependence on the USA.
(And the UK needs to anyway for basic economic reasons).
And why not add Australia? Also has English common law, also part of the monarchy, for now?
It's hardly a new idea, but I heartily agree. CANAUK (NZ are a bit too pathetic and reliant on China for now)
It would be quite a mighty "nation", with enormous resources, great universities, global influence and oresence. We could cycle the parliament betweem London, Ottawa and Canberra
To be even more radical the four UK nations could join independently, making CANENGNIWASCO, which is a neat and catchy name in itself, and that would balance out the Scottish sense of being constantly outvoted by overdominant England
in fact I'd add Cornwall as a fifth nation, making CANENGNIWASCOCORN, and maybe make Lostwithiel the ultimate Federal capital of the entire new superpower
Because adding Australia lacks a bit of geographic and geopolitical logic.
UK and Canada are already both in NATO, and there’s only five hours time difference between London and Toronto.
But Australia etc could be a further leg. And you’d expect Anglo-Canada to have a v strong relationship with Australia from the outset.
To be serious, I do like this idea - always have done - but I disagree on Australianot being a good fit. Oz is a Pacific power, so is Canada - just different sides of the Pacific. And Australia is alrrady in AUKUS, an embryonic global NATO
And yes a big liberal English speaking power, able to balance the lunacies of the USA, would be excellent for the West - and the world
I know this is all in fun, but shouldn't we just make the UK and its economy work first? Do we always have to find someone to glue ourselves to to make things better? Talking about looking for love in all the wrong places.
Britain needs some frontier mentality to re-energise its entrepreneurial spirit.
Britain needs to (a) stop indulging in cakeist fantasies and make a realistic assessment of what can be achieved and what we want to achieve, and (b) desist from structuring everything around the needs of wealthy people over the age of 50, to the detriment/exclusion of everyone else. After that, we'll see where we end up.
When the chess position looks impossible, enlarge the board.
"A minister has ordered a local council to end its experiment with a four-day week "immediately" over concerns about the "value for money" for local taxpayers.
South Cambridgeshire District Council, the first local authority in the UK to undertake such a trial, had announced plans to extend it until April.
Local government minister Lee Rowley wrote to Liberal Democrat council leader Bridget Smith to "ask that you end your experiment immediately" and say he had concerns about the "value for money" for local taxpayers.
...
"There is no good reason to end this trial, which is already bringing many benefits to council workers, local residents and saving the council money."
Council leader Ms Smith replied to request a meeting with ministers to discuss the matter, saying independently reviewed data showed "performance was maintained at the level shortly before the trial, while some areas of performance data saw significant improvement compared to recent data."
Perhaps a 4 day week should be accompanied by an equivalent reduction in council tax.
I think the objection is to the trial for tax payers that working hours were cut by 20% but wages are still at 100%, so basically a 20% pay rise for all those workers
Yep but if productivity is the same as before and customer satisfaction is equal or better what exactly is the problem?
And from what I've read both of the above seem to be true - and other places have shown similar results..
The only way productivity can remain the same though is if they were wasting 20% of their working time doing stuff other than what they were being paid too.
Example Someone working on a council tax enquiry line, lets say each enquiry takes 10 minutes on average to resolve. Now there is no way you can make that faster. So under a 5 day week they would have done 40 * 6 = 240 calls. On a 4 day week they can do a maximum of 32*6 calls for 192.
Now if after each call they were spending a few minutes gassing with colleagues and now they don't and just do them back to back yes productivity can remain the same. However the answer is not reduce the working days but reduce the skiving off.
I went down slough council offices a couple of times when I lived there and you could see it in action. They would call a number, deal with a client then spend a few minutes chatting to the colleague beside them before calling another number. It was bloody infuriating.
A lot of things you cannot do faster so I am sorry no I don't believe productivity is the same just that they were poorly managed. Now in a trial I am sure they will give it their all to show productivity doesn't drop. Who wouldn't to keep a 4 day week....however once the 4 day week is embedded and accepted I fully expect them to return to dallying between tasks.
This is not just a public sector issue you see the same in the private sector, people scrolling on their phones when they are meant to be doing what they are paid for etc or chatting round the coffee machine.
When did it become okay for people to use their personal phones while doing a job? I'm sure it wasn't allowed in most jobs when phones first became available.
My relative who runs a construction company got complaints.
Because he restricted the provided WiFi on site and in the office to block social media.
No, he wasn’t grabbing people’s mobiles off them. Just if they wanted Farcebook or Twatter, it came out of the employee’s data plans…
Does that not just come across as him being a massive cheapskate?
He has this strange belief that he shouldn’t pay for other people’s social lives. If they want to live on Facebook, why should he provide it?
Time to bring back Geoff Boycott and Chris Tavare.
Tavaré's heroics won England a Test in 1981. 147 runs across two innings, scored in about twelve hours at Manchester.
Everyone forgets his obduracy was the reason why Botham could cut loose for 118 at the other end, knowing one end was in very safe hands. He may only have scored 28 runs in a 150 run partnership, but he was critical to that victory.
"A minister has ordered a local council to end its experiment with a four-day week "immediately" over concerns about the "value for money" for local taxpayers.
South Cambridgeshire District Council, the first local authority in the UK to undertake such a trial, had announced plans to extend it until April.
Local government minister Lee Rowley wrote to Liberal Democrat council leader Bridget Smith to "ask that you end your experiment immediately" and say he had concerns about the "value for money" for local taxpayers.
...
"There is no good reason to end this trial, which is already bringing many benefits to council workers, local residents and saving the council money."
Council leader Ms Smith replied to request a meeting with ministers to discuss the matter, saying independently reviewed data showed "performance was maintained at the level shortly before the trial, while some areas of performance data saw significant improvement compared to recent data."
Perhaps a 4 day week should be accompanied by an equivalent reduction in council tax.
I think the objection is to the trial for tax payers that working hours were cut by 20% but wages are still at 100%, so basically a 20% pay rise for all those workers
Yep but if productivity is the same as before and customer satisfaction is equal or better what exactly is the problem?
And from what I've read both of the above seem to be true - and other places have shown similar results..
The only way productivity can remain the same though is if they were wasting 20% of their working time doing stuff other than what they were being paid too.
Example Someone working on a council tax enquiry line, lets say each enquiry takes 10 minutes on average to resolve. Now there is no way you can make that faster. So under a 5 day week they would have done 40 * 6 = 240 calls. On a 4 day week they can do a maximum of 32*6 calls for 192.
Now if after each call they were spending a few minutes gassing with colleagues and now they don't and just do them back to back yes productivity can remain the same. However the answer is not reduce the working days but reduce the skiving off.
I went down slough council offices a couple of times when I lived there and you could see it in action. They would call a number, deal with a client then spend a few minutes chatting to the colleague beside them before calling another number. It was bloody infuriating.
A lot of things you cannot do faster so I am sorry no I don't believe productivity is the same just that they were poorly managed. Now in a trial I am sure they will give it their all to show productivity doesn't drop. Who wouldn't to keep a 4 day week....however once the 4 day week is embedded and accepted I fully expect them to return to dallying between tasks.
This is not just a public sector issue you see the same in the private sector, people scrolling on their phones when they are meant to be doing what they are paid for etc or chatting round the coffee machine.
When did it become okay for people to use their personal phones while doing a job? I'm sure it wasn't allowed in most jobs when phones first became available.
My relative who runs a construction company got complaints.
Because he restricted the provided WiFi on site and in the office to block social media.
No, he wasn’t grabbing people’s mobiles off them. Just if they wanted Farcebook or Twatter, it came out of the employee’s data plans…
Does that not just come across as him being a massive cheapskate?
He has this strange belief that he shouldn’t pay for other people’s social lives. If they want to live on Facebook, why should he provide it?
The marginal cost of the extra data to him will be close to zero. The opportunity cost of people being on facebook instead of working will presumably not be, but if they just switch wifi off and carry on regardless then he won't see any savings here, surely?
"A minister has ordered a local council to end its experiment with a four-day week "immediately" over concerns about the "value for money" for local taxpayers.
South Cambridgeshire District Council, the first local authority in the UK to undertake such a trial, had announced plans to extend it until April.
Local government minister Lee Rowley wrote to Liberal Democrat council leader Bridget Smith to "ask that you end your experiment immediately" and say he had concerns about the "value for money" for local taxpayers.
...
"There is no good reason to end this trial, which is already bringing many benefits to council workers, local residents and saving the council money."
Council leader Ms Smith replied to request a meeting with ministers to discuss the matter, saying independently reviewed data showed "performance was maintained at the level shortly before the trial, while some areas of performance data saw significant improvement compared to recent data."
Perhaps a 4 day week should be accompanied by an equivalent reduction in council tax.
I think the objection is to the trial for tax payers that working hours were cut by 20% but wages are still at 100%, so basically a 20% pay rise for all those workers
That verdict should be for the tax payers to deliver (or not), though, not central government.
Should be remembered that most money for local government does come from central government.
Equally, I think the minister concerned is behaving like a fool. It's worth waiting to get some proper data from an extended trial.
Not that surprising admittedly, given he is a fool, but still depressing.
Is that true ? (Not his being a fool.) https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainer/local-government-funding-england … In 2019/20, local authorities in England received 23% of their funding from government grants, 50% from council tax, and 27% from retained business rates – revenue from business rates that they do not send to the Treasury. Unlike central government, local authorities cannot borrow to finance day-to-day spending, and so they must either run balanced budgets or draw down reserves – money built up by underspending in earlier years – to ensure that their annual spending does not exceed their annual revenue. But reserves can only be used once. Once reserves are spent, they cannot be spent again. Local government in England has very limited revenue-raising powers compared to other wealthy countries. In 2014, every other G7 nation collected more taxes at either a local or regional level, according to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development. Twelve percent of the UK's taxes were collected, or intended to be collected, locally in 2014, compared to 17% collected locally or federally in Italy, 30% in Germany, and almost 50% in Canada...
Apparently not. My information was clearly out of date.
In which case, he's an even bigger fool than I thought which is some achievement.
Just thinking that this discussion reminds me of the arguments about letting the proles have two weeks holiday each year, then Saturday afternoon off, then the whole of Saturday ...
(I always thought it was really shitty of the upper and middle classes to make the proles work 6 days a week and then shut everything down, like the parks, railways, art galleries, etc. so they couldn't do anything nice on a Sunday once they'd been to church or chapel. There is some really good reading on Victorian sabbatarianism and anti-sabbatarianism. There's a bit of that sentiment still in some folk, I suspect.)
Discussions about four versus five day weeks are, in and of themselves, bourgeois, of course. How many people working low wage crap jobs in a whole range of sectors (care homes and shops immediately spring to mind) get all their weekends off? For that matter, how many hard-up workers do more than one job, spread over six or seven days of the week?
Indeed, but on the other hand a 4 day week might actually help some folk - whether for child or oldie care or to double bank.
Well, it's all academic: some employers are much better with flexible working than others, but even those that are very receptive to letting people work four day weeks will simply expect the working hours in each day to be 25% longer, or cut pay by 20%.
The former gets you nowhere and the latter is only any good if you're well-enough paid to afford the luxury of trading money for time.
This just makes the decision to make Lyon bat look even madder.
unlike us , aussies do not throw away runs - they added 15 by Lyons coming in - wont need them now but could have done - compare to the most ridiculous declaration in the first test by stoakes
With the Bank Holidays and strike days, we had a spell of 4 consecutive 4 day weeks at school. My anecdotal experience was that the levels of behaviour and achievement soared. The kids were rested and ready to learn. The staff unstressed. Which led to a virtuous spiral. Absolutely no chance we'd get the chance of an experiment, mind.
As a counter, we had five and a half days a week (including Saturday mornings), finishing Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays at 6pm, with compulsory study from 7-9 every evening apart from Sunday and behaviour wasn’t an issue and we were rested and ready to learn. Maybe it’s not about the time spent at school?
I assume that's at boarding school?
Yes, but you mentioned an experiment and surely there is an experiment already going on where there are students spending long hours “in school” compared to the accepted timetable in State Schools where you can compare hours spent in schools against other metrics.
As I know absolutely nothing about being a teacher I can’t hope to know your experience but I’ve always wondered why the school day isn’t changed, with any necessary uplift in pay for teachers, to finish after 5pm for 13+ as it would have the benefit of freeing up parents to work a full day rather than having to work part time which would be good for parents, productivity and tax receipts surely.
But doesn't your suggestion imply 2 hours of sport (or voluntary service or whatever) every afternoon, on the private school model? That would need more playing fields than (so I understand) schools tend to have these days.
It doesn’t just have to be 2 hours of sport. And not all sport needs playing fields as there are potentially other sports and exercise options that don’t need the space. It could be a mix of sport, activities - art, crafts, drama, and yes, community service, cadet forces, anything but also that time could be set aside as a sort of “prep” time where pupils do what would otherwise be homework under supervision where the teacher supervising each class gets time to do marking whilst being paid rather than it being in their free time at home and pupils catch up on work in a solid environment rather than trying to do it at home where they might not have peace, space, equipment or might be corralled into other things.
As I understand it, one of the problems with a school day ending later than 3:30 would be students having to go home in the dark for much of the winter.
"A minister has ordered a local council to end its experiment with a four-day week "immediately" over concerns about the "value for money" for local taxpayers.
South Cambridgeshire District Council, the first local authority in the UK to undertake such a trial, had announced plans to extend it until April.
Local government minister Lee Rowley wrote to Liberal Democrat council leader Bridget Smith to "ask that you end your experiment immediately" and say he had concerns about the "value for money" for local taxpayers.
...
"There is no good reason to end this trial, which is already bringing many benefits to council workers, local residents and saving the council money."
Council leader Ms Smith replied to request a meeting with ministers to discuss the matter, saying independently reviewed data showed "performance was maintained at the level shortly before the trial, while some areas of performance data saw significant improvement compared to recent data."
Perhaps a 4 day week should be accompanied by an equivalent reduction in council tax.
I think the objection is to the trial for tax payers that working hours were cut by 20% but wages are still at 100%, so basically a 20% pay rise for all those workers
That verdict should be for the tax payers to deliver (or not), though, not central government.
Should be remembered that most money for local government does come from central government.
Equally, I think the minister concerned is behaving like a fool. It's worth waiting to get some proper data from an extended trial.
Not that surprising admittedly, given he is a fool, but still depressing.
Is that true ? (Not his being a fool.) https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainer/local-government-funding-england … In 2019/20, local authorities in England received 23% of their funding from government grants, 50% from council tax, and 27% from retained business rates – revenue from business rates that they do not send to the Treasury. Unlike central government, local authorities cannot borrow to finance day-to-day spending, and so they must either run balanced budgets or draw down reserves – money built up by underspending in earlier years – to ensure that their annual spending does not exceed their annual revenue. But reserves can only be used once. Once reserves are spent, they cannot be spent again. Local government in England has very limited revenue-raising powers compared to other wealthy countries. In 2014, every other G7 nation collected more taxes at either a local or regional level, according to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development. Twelve percent of the UK's taxes were collected, or intended to be collected, locally in 2014, compared to 17% collected locally or federally in Italy, 30% in Germany, and almost 50% in Canada...
Apparently not. My information was clearly out of date.
In which case, he's an even bigger fool than I thought which is some achievement.
Just thinking that this discussion reminds me of the arguments about letting the proles have two weeks holiday each year, then Saturday afternoon off, then the whole of Saturday ...
(I always thought it was really shitty of the upper and middle classes to make the proles work 6 days a week and then shut everything down, like the parks, railways, art galleries, etc. so they couldn't do anything nice on a Sunday once they'd been to church or chapel. There is some really good reading on Victorian sabbatarianism and anti-sabbatarianism. There's a bit of that sentiment still in some folk, I suspect.)
Discussions about four versus five day weeks are, in and of themselves, bourgeois, of course. How many people working low wage crap jobs in a whole range of sectors (care homes and shops immediately spring to mind) get all their weekends off? For that matter, how many hard-up workers do more than one job, spread over six or seven days of the week?
Indeed, but on the other hand a 4 day week might actually help some folk - whether for child or oldie care or to double bank.
Well, it's all academic: some employers are much better with flexible working than others, but even those that are very receptive to letting people work four day weeks will simply expect the working hours in each day to be 25% longer, or cut pay by 20%.
The former gets you nowhere and the latter is only any good if you're well-enough paid to afford the luxury of trading money for time.
The former is actually popular with many people precisely for its economic benefit. For instance I seem to recall one of my colleagues only needing to pay for 4 instead of 5 days childcare a week. And/or 4 instead of 5 commutes (not everyone goes by a season ticket on public transport).
Don’t worry, we at least have the Rugby World Cup to assert our sporting greatness over the Aussies.
Yes. But rugby union isn't even in Australia's top three forms of football. Nor indeed anywhere near their top kind of rugby.
It was a joke as we are currently shit at rugby, likely to end up facing Australia if we get through the group and progress, and then face the manager we sacked. What could go wrong.
The irony about this outburst about the 4 day week is that the civil service have been allowing staff to do flexi time and compressed hours for at least the last 20 years. It is very common across the public sector.
The irony about this outburst about the 4 day week is that the civil service have been allowing staff to do flexi time and compressed hours for at least the last 20 years. It is very common across the public sector.
yes not sure it has worked with recent examples of government run services being not that efficient
The irony about this outburst about the 4 day week is that the civil service have been allowing staff to do flexi time and compressed hours for at least the last 20 years. It is very common across the public sector.
yes not sure it has worked with recent examples of government run services being not that efficient
Works well, if sensibly managed. It helps keep staff and the staff can work more efficiently - for instance on field work or when doing long and tricky jobs which can now be finished in one day.
I keep meaning to write a thread header, but can’t be arsed.
In a nutshell, post-Brexit Britain should prioritise economic, industrial and security integration with Canada to create a moderate, liberal “hedge” to US hegemony within the Western order, and a powerful energy, finance and cultural player of 110m that stretches from London to Vancouver.
I quite like this idea. Canada is still one of the most moderately civilised places in the world.
The only amendation I would make is that i'd still like us to have close relations with our European neighbours, at the same time.
That would be one of the underlying premises. Anglo-Canada would seek stronger relations with Europe precisely to avoid over-dependence on the USA.
(And the UK needs to anyway for basic economic reasons).
And why not add Australia? Also has English common law, also part of the monarchy, for now?
It's hardly a new idea, but I heartily agree. CANAUK (NZ are a bit too pathetic and reliant on China for now)
It would be quite a mighty "nation", with enormous resources, great universities, global influence and oresence. We could cycle the parliament betweem London, Ottawa and Canberra
To be even more radical the four UK nations could join independently, making CANENGNIWASCO, which is a neat and catchy name in itself, and that would balance out the Scottish sense of being constantly outvoted by overdominant England
in fact I'd add Cornwall as a fifth nation, making CANENGNIWASCOCORN, and maybe make Lostwithiel the ultimate Federal capital of the entire new superpower
Because adding Australia lacks a bit of geographic and geopolitical logic.
UK and Canada are already both in NATO, and there’s only five hours time difference between London and Toronto.
But Australia etc could be a further leg. And you’d expect Anglo-Canada to have a v strong relationship with Australia from the outset.
To be serious, I do like this idea - always have done - but I disagree on Australianot being a good fit. Oz is a Pacific power, so is Canada - just different sides of the Pacific. And Australia is alrrady in AUKUS, an embryonic global NATO
And yes a big liberal English speaking power, able to balance the lunacies of the USA, would be excellent for the West - and the world
I know this is all in fun, but shouldn't we just make the UK and its economy work first? Do we always have to find someone to glue ourselves to to make things better? Talking about looking for love in all the wrong places.
Britain needs some frontier mentality to re-energise its entrepreneurial spirit.
Britain needs to (a) stop indulging in cakeist fantasies and make a realistic assessment of what can be achieved and what we want to achieve, and (b) desist from structuring everything around the needs of wealthy people over the age of 50, to the detriment/exclusion of everyone else. After that, we'll see where we end up.
When the chess position looks impossible, enlarge the board.
There is no realistic possibility of the UK and Canada turning into a political federation.
The irony about this outburst about the 4 day week is that the civil service have been allowing staff to do flexi time and compressed hours for at least the last 20 years. It is very common across the public sector.
The other thing is its only the 4 day week that has allowed the council to actually recruit staff and I suspect the agency staff cost savings have been substantial.
The irony about this outburst about the 4 day week is that the civil service have been allowing staff to do flexi time and compressed hours for at least the last 20 years. It is very common across the public sector.
yes not sure it has worked with recent examples of government run services being not that efficient
Works well, if sensibly managed. It helps keep staff and the staff can work more efficiently - for instance on field work or when doing long and tricky jobs which can now be finished in one day.
well sorry to differ but recent customer experience of services like the passport office /HMRC and border controls leave many wondering how efficient the civil service is
Politicians even get abuse when you have a game of backyard cricket...
'Sam Curran sledged me in my garden' Prime Minister Rishi Sunak on his cricket skills: "I batted more than anything else. I was lucky that I got to play cricket in my back garden with the England T20 World Cup-winning team.
"I had Chris Jordan bowling at me. Jos Buttler was very nice. Sam Curran on the other hand was giving me quite a lot of jib fielding at point. I was not expecting such heavy sledging in my back garden. But they were great and I loved doing that."
Sunak certainly was lucky to get England to play cricket with him in his back garden, though I'm not sure it's wise of him to show off about the size of his estate. They probably all went for a swim afterwards. I'm not sure Chris Jordan would even fit into my back yard.
It was Downing Street, which by all accounts is quite a small shitty place to actual live (especially after Boris tasteless "remodel").
We don't know that the remodel has been tasteless - we only saw pictures of Lytle's own flat, which is always going to be the most extreme expression of the decorators' tastes.
The irony about this outburst about the 4 day week is that the civil service have been allowing staff to do flexi time and compressed hours for at least the last 20 years. It is very common across the public sector.
yes not sure it has worked with recent examples of government run services being not that efficient
Works well, if sensibly managed. It helps keep staff and the staff can work more efficiently - for instance on field work or when doing long and tricky jobs which can now be finished in one day.
well sorry to differ but recent customer experience of services like the passport office /HMRC and border controls leave many wondering how efficient the civil service is
Those services were efficient until the last few years, yet the civil service has been using flexitime for over 40 years - or at least when I was doing stuident vacation work in the 1970s the organization employing me was. It's not flexitime that did the damage, but political management.
What I would say about Council's is that if you are good at your job and start working too fast then they let you know and ask you to slow down. However this is not just Councils. It is similar in the private sector, where you get asked to stretch out projects to earn more money for the company. In my experience there are very few work situations which are entirely driven by trying maximise productivity in any objective sense.
Don’t worry, we at least have the Rugby World Cup to assert our sporting greatness over the Aussies.
Yes. But rugby union isn't even in Australia's top three forms of football. Nor indeed anywhere near their top kind of rugby.
It was a joke as we are currently shit at rugby, likely to end up facing Australia if we get through the group and progress, and then face the manager we sacked. What could go wrong.
Australia aren't very hot either. And their Union is close to bankrupt. And the NRL is mopping up all their juniors.
The irony about this outburst about the 4 day week is that the civil service have been allowing staff to do flexi time and compressed hours for at least the last 20 years. It is very common across the public sector.
The other thing is its only the 4 day week that has allowed the council to actually recruit staff and I suspect the agency staff cost savings have been substantial.
The other (slightly depressing) thought that's ocurred to me...
I reckon Dave-in-opposition would have been all for this. Localities trying new ideas, getting better value (because if it improves staff retention and reduces the need for agency staff, it will be better value), wellbeing and so on.
Now the Conservative government has gone back to miserable curtain-twitching. Even if it fails, even if you think it is likely to fail, it seems worth a try, especially with one of our two great universities checking what happens. The hopeless sense that, if someone is getting a better life, it can only be because they are cheating.
Which is another way of saying that the Conservatives really need to lose the next election, because there is nothing left in the tank.
The irony about this outburst about the 4 day week is that the civil service have been allowing staff to do flexi time and compressed hours for at least the last 20 years. It is very common across the public sector.
yes not sure it has worked with recent examples of government run services being not that efficient
Works well, if sensibly managed. It helps keep staff and the staff can work more efficiently - for instance on field work or when doing long and tricky jobs which can now be finished in one day.
well sorry to differ but recent customer experience of services like the passport office /HMRC and border controls leave many wondering how efficient the civil service is
How can you tell? Surely you'd need to know the numbers of staff versus numbers of calls/requests etc.?
When I recently called the Pension Service on behalf of a client to try to get his Pension Credit reduced (as it was clear to him and me that he was being paid too much) the agent we spoke to said they only have enough staff to action emergency issues - i.e. where an individual is not getting the money they are due. Overpayments and recalculations that will reduce payments just never get looked at. So payments are being made that should not be.
18 > U of Toronto 40 > U of British Columbia (in Vancouver) 46 > McGill U (in Montreal) 85 > McMaster U (in Hamilton Ontario) 111 > U of Montreal 118 > U of Alberta (in Edmonton) 137 > U of Ottawa 201 to 250 > U of Calgary > Western U (formerly Western Ontario U, in London Ontario) 251 to 300 > Université Laval (in Québec City) > Queen's U (in Kingston Ontario) > Simon Fraser U (in Burnaby BC) 301 to 350 > Dalhousie U (in Halifax Nova Scotia) > U of Victoria (in Vic BC)
Don’t worry, we at least have the Rugby World Cup to assert our sporting greatness over the Aussies.
Yes. But rugby union isn't even in Australia's top three forms of football. Nor indeed anywhere near their top kind of rugby.
It was a joke as we are currently shit at rugby, likely to end up facing Australia if we get through the group and progress, and then face the manager we sacked. What could go wrong.
Australia aren't very hot either. And their Union is close to bankrupt. And the NRL is mopping up all their juniors.
True but our Rugby team are going to discover “Fazball” where they just give the ball to Owen Farrell every time and he does crazy Garyowens and we get high on our own supply until it doesn’t work.
What I would say about Council's is that if you are good at your job and start working too fast then they let you know and ask you to slow down. However this is not just Councils. It is similar in the private sector, where you get asked to stretch out projects to earn more money for the company. In my experience there are very few work situations which are entirely driven by trying maximise productivity in any objective sense.
Not in my experience of 40 years working in the private sector. Then again, I actually worked for the companies I worked for, not for some agency trying to fleece their customers.
One thing is for sure. No Canadian is going to tolerate for a second central government dictating local authorities' working arrangements. You can't unite the most centralised and most de-centralised polities in the Western world.
The irony about this outburst about the 4 day week is that the civil service have been allowing staff to do flexi time and compressed hours for at least the last 20 years. It is very common across the public sector.
Whose outburst? I missed it - been driving all day.
Comments
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomenclator_(nomenclature)
"Cricket? Never heard of it"
West Indies 344-1 v England 1984
England 282-3 v New Zealand 2004
England 279-5 v New Zealand 2022
England 218-3 v New Zealand 1965
England 193-5 v West Indies 2012
Anything over 250 to chase in test cricket is incredibly rare in test cricket.
Though that didn't stop Brits from THIS act of piracy, known as Paulet Affair aka "British Hawaii":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paulet_affair
Indeed Lord Rosebery was Prime Minister and President of the Imperial Federation League (not at the same time).
A whole economic policy was based on it, called at various times Tariff Reform, Imperial Preference, Empire Free Trade and Neville Chamberlain's budget.
It didn't work.
Just as Malta's request to join the UK in the 1950s was rebuffed.
You can't guarantee they will be fed or have a quiet, safe place to sleep, let alone study.
Plus they all have a special needs diagnosis.
You aren't comparing like with like.
Anyway, 2023 is v different.
We have the internet.
The world is smaller.
And Britain’s geopolitical strategy is no longer centred on the defence of India.
How do you supervise whilst marking?
Almost all schools have after school clubs which do this already.
Because he restricted the provided WiFi on site and in the office to block social media.
No, he wasn’t grabbing people’s mobiles off them. Just if they wanted Farcebook or Twatter, it came out of the employee’s data plans…
The inheritance of social status: England, 1600 to 2022
https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2300926120
There is widespread belief across the social sciences in the ability of social interventions and social institutions to significantly influence rates of social mobility. In England, 1600 to 2022, we see considerable change in social institutions across time. Half the population was illiterate in 1,800, and not until 1,880 was compulsory primary education introduced. Progressively after this, educational provision and other social supports for poorer families expanded greatly. The paper shows, however, that these interventions did not change in any measurable way the strong familial persistence of social status across generations...
… Abstract
A lineage of 422,374 English people (1600 to 2022) contains correlations in social outcomes among relatives as distant as 4th cousins. These correlations show striking patterns. The first is the strong persistence of social status across family trees. Correlations decline by a factor of only 0.79 across each generation. Even fourth cousins, with a common ancestor only five generations earlier, show significant status correlations. The second remarkable feature is that the decline in correlation with genetic distance in the lineage is unchanged from 1600 to 2022. Vast social changes in England between 1600 and 2022 would have been expected to increase social mobility. Yet people in 2022 remain correlated in outcomes with their lineage relatives in exactly the same way as in preindustrial England. The third surprising feature is that the correlations parallel those of a simple model of additive genetic determination of status, with a genetic correlation in marriage of 0.57.
Edit: for instance, where does one put the armoury for the cadet force?
And supervising while marking ... But there is certainly a wider question of why the working day in the state school is as it is, bearing in mind the travel issue.
Sorry, I haven’t really thought it out but it just seems like the current model is largely accepted and there does need to be a serious experiment of changing school hours for the benefit of children and society. I clearly don’t have the answers but it seems it isn’t right as it is.
Yikes. Is that meant to be a year?
Heck, it would be worth eating an extra-large Hawaiian with extra pineapple. While watching Carry on Columbus followed by The Last Jedi.
Could be all about differing voting systems next weekend!
They are united in believing that Germany and France regard Eastern Europe as something to be negotiated with Russia. As in a bargaining chip. They also believe that Poland needs to arm to the teeth, 100% back the other Eastern European nations of like mind (Baltics, Ukraine). Oh, and fuck over Germany and France in terms of foreign policy.
The comment - “we will sell *their* interests” came up a few times.
https://www.theguardian.com/food/2023/jul/01/how-i-recreated-the-pompeii-pizza-smelled-like-toffee-apples
Actually I've got a Scotland piece to use from a few weeks ago. I may use that tomorrow.
?
Not that I have read (or was able to read) this particular newspaper but the end is nigh for traditional printed daily papers everywhere.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2023/jul/01/worlds-oldest-newspaper-prints-final-edition-after-320-years
Everyone forgets his obduracy was the reason why Botham could cut loose for 118 at the other end, knowing one end was in very safe hands. He may only have scored 28 runs in a 150 run partnership, but he was critical to that victory.
The former gets you nowhere and the latter is only any good if you're well-enough paid to afford the luxury of trading money for time.
The Ashes, I mean who cares about that, the world cup is where the real glory is.
But rugby union isn't even in Australia's top three forms of football.
Nor indeed anywhere near their top kind of rugby.
I reckon Dave-in-opposition would have been all for this. Localities trying new ideas, getting better value (because if it improves staff retention and reduces the need for agency staff, it will be better value), wellbeing and so on.
Now the Conservative government has gone back to miserable curtain-twitching. Even if it fails, even if you think it is likely to fail, it seems worth a try, especially with one of our two great universities checking what happens. The hopeless sense that, if someone is getting a better life, it can only be because they are cheating.
Which is another way of saying that the Conservatives really need to lose the next election, because there is nothing left in the tank.
When I recently called the Pension Service on behalf of a client to try to get his Pension Credit reduced (as it was clear to him and me that he was being paid too much) the agent we spoke to said they only have enough staff to action emergency issues - i.e. where an individual is not getting the money they are due. Overpayments and recalculations that will reduce payments just never get looked at. So payments are being made that should not be.
18 > U of Toronto
40 > U of British Columbia (in Vancouver)
46 > McGill U (in Montreal)
85 > McMaster U (in Hamilton Ontario)
111 > U of Montreal
118 > U of Alberta (in Edmonton)
137 > U of Ottawa
201 to 250
> U of Calgary
> Western U (formerly Western Ontario U, in London Ontario)
251 to 300
> Université Laval (in Québec City)
> Queen's U (in Kingston Ontario)
> Simon Fraser U (in Burnaby BC)
301 to 350
> Dalhousie U (in Halifax Nova Scotia)
> U of Victoria (in Vic BC)
No Canadian is going to tolerate for a second central government dictating local authorities' working arrangements.
You can't unite the most centralised and most de-centralised polities in the Western world.
Where exactly?