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No seat is safe: Tory by-election defences – politicalbetting.com

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  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,757
    dixiedean said:

    I've never used Twitter.

    Too late now.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,240
    algarkirk said:

    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Sounds like it should have been out to me. Players throw the ball up in the air all the time before they've finished moving, and the ball usually hits the ground rather than being caught by someone else.

    The law does not say you stop moving, it says 'has complete control' over your movement. If you catch, land on your feet whilst moving, and throw the ball in the air immediately then you did have control, however immediately you threSteviw the ball.

    This seems a clear case of people just not knowing what the law says, and getting angry it does not say what they think it says. It doesn't seem that controversial to me, as for example we see all the time people catching a ball clearly, hitting the ground, and the ball popping out without it counting as a catch - because they did not have control.

    Glemm McGrath can moan all he likes, but you can't just rub the ball on the ground after you catch - the moment is not dead.

    Just watched it. Even without the law, you'd have to do some serious mental contortions to say that should be classed as catch - the balls being scraped along the ground for an eternity.
    Just seen it myself. It's clearly not a catch, not even marginal.

    It's very closely analagous to the situation where a fielder makes a diving catch and the ball pops out of his hands when he hits the ground. The ball might be under control but the body isn't. It's the same here. He's used the ball, which is plainly grounded, to stabilise himself as he falls.

    Recant, Mr McGrath!
    The catcher generally knows perfectly well if he has made a good catch. Just as the batsman knows if he has snicked. Time for some sportsmanship.
    Steve Smith's recent "sort of" catch was more justifiable than this one. And Smith's was very iffy

    The ball isn't just *grounded* in Starc's catch, he ploughs it through the turf. What more does he have to do for it to be a non-catch? Entomb it with recondite ceremonies? Bounce if off his chest so it goes three miles down a tin mine?
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,251
    algarkirk said:

    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Sounds like it should have been out to me. Players throw the ball up in the air all the time before they've finished moving, and the ball usually hits the ground rather than being caught by someone else.

    The law does not say you stop moving, it says 'has complete control' over your movement. If you catch, land on your feet whilst moving, and throw the ball in the air immediately then you did have control, however immediately you threw the ball.

    This seems a clear case of people just not knowing what the law says, and getting angry it does not say what they think it says. It doesn't seem that controversial to me, as for example we see all the time people catching a ball clearly, hitting the ground, and the ball popping out without it counting as a catch - because they did not have control.

    Glemm McGrath can moan all he likes, but you can't just rub the ball on the ground after you catch - the moment is not dead.

    Just watched it. Even without the law, you'd have to do some serious mental contortions to say that should be classed as catch - the balls being scraped along the ground for an eternity.
    Just seen it myself. It's clearly not a catch, not even marginal.

    It's very closely analagous to the situation where a fielder makes a diving catch and the ball pops out of his hands when he hits the ground. The ball might be under control but the body isn't. It's the same here. He's used the ball, which is plainly grounded, to stabilise himself as he falls.

    Recant, Mr McGrath!
    The catcher generally knows perfectly well if he has made a good catch. Just as the batsman knows if he has snicked. Time for some sportsmanship.
    You have to think Starc didn't know or properly understand the law, because he could easily have put the matter beyond doubt by rolling over and keeping the ball off the ground.

    I don't think it was poor sportsmanship, just simply a player not fully knowing the laws of the game. That's common in most sports.
  • Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    Twitter is a menace, of course, but also provides (provided?) the only way to access communities of expertise.

    If it dies, a lot of value goes with it.

    Something will appear and take its place - the problem is none of the options are there yet mastodon is user unfriendly while Bluesky is slowly ramping up...
    I don’t know if this is amusing or disturbing, but Meta is developing a Twitter competitor service.
    There's always Truth Social (I'll get my coat)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,240

    algarkirk said:

    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Sounds like it should have been out to me. Players throw the ball up in the air all the time before they've finished moving, and the ball usually hits the ground rather than being caught by someone else.

    The law does not say you stop moving, it says 'has complete control' over your movement. If you catch, land on your feet whilst moving, and throw the ball in the air immediately then you did have control, however immediately you threw the ball.

    This seems a clear case of people just not knowing what the law says, and getting angry it does not say what they think it says. It doesn't seem that controversial to me, as for example we see all the time people catching a ball clearly, hitting the ground, and the ball popping out without it counting as a catch - because they did not have control.

    Glemm McGrath can moan all he likes, but you can't just rub the ball on the ground after you catch - the moment is not dead.

    Just watched it. Even without the law, you'd have to do some serious mental contortions to say that should be classed as catch - the balls being scraped along the ground for an eternity.
    Just seen it myself. It's clearly not a catch, not even marginal.

    It's very closely analagous to the situation where a fielder makes a diving catch and the ball pops out of his hands when he hits the ground. The ball might be under control but the body isn't. It's the same here. He's used the ball, which is plainly grounded, to stabilise himself as he falls.

    Recant, Mr McGrath!
    The catcher generally knows perfectly well if he has made a good catch. Just as the batsman knows if he has snicked. Time for some sportsmanship.
    You have to think Starc didn't know or properly understand the law, because he could easily have put the matter beyond doubt by rolling over and keeping the ball off the ground.

    I don't think it was poor sportsmanship, just simply a player not fully knowing the laws of the game. That's common in most sports.
    You're too generous. Looking at Starc's quietly smirking countenance, I reckon this was simple cheating

    Or "gamesmanship" if you want to be ultra-polite
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,240
    edited July 2023
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,358
    Leon said:

    WHY is the catching law so obscurantist?

    It should be, first, if the ball touches the grass or ground, within ten seconds of the catcher's fingers first making contact: Not Out

    Everything else is detail

    The law deliberately doesn't include a time limit because it's possible to juggle a ball for a long time without having control over it. Instead it's about having full control over the further disposal of it.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,274

    Possible by-election coming up in Tamworth.

    Right Hon Chris Pincher? (of that Ilk!)
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    Just on twitter, because I never really thought about it before. Are there any stats on how many tweets are sent per day (on average)?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,240
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    WHY is the catching law so obscurantist?

    It should be, first, if the ball touches the grass or ground, within ten seconds of the catcher's fingers first making contact: Not Out

    Everything else is detail

    The law deliberately doesn't include a time limit because it's possible to juggle a ball for a long time without having control over it. Instead it's about having full control over the further disposal of it.
    Well if you can't control it, and avoid it hitting the ground, within ten seconds: Not Out

    Fairly simple

    The essence of a catch is keeping it off the ground, everything else is trivial. My simple law would allow you to toss it to someone else. It's just not allowed to hit the ground, within ten seconds of initial contact
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,057
    Taz said:

    Foss said:

    If they keep those limits in the longer term it’s going to have a massive effect on both general campaigning and the sudden spread of outrage-of-the-minute topics.

    I think of reactivating my MySpace account.
    Bring back friendsreunited !!
    Bugger that, bring back newsgroups!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,379
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    WHY is the catching law so obscurantist?

    It should be, first, if the ball touches the grass or ground, within ten seconds of the catcher's fingers first making contact: Not Out

    Everything else is detail

    Surely the very essence of a catch is that you prevent the ball from touching the ground. Starc didn't prevent it from touching the ground for the very simple reason that it did touch the ground. I can't see what there is to argue about.
    Absolutely. It's absurd. It's like claiming you can score a goal without the ball actually crossing the goal line

    It's a fecking nonsense. Change the law: simplify it
    Didn't the 1966 World Cup Final feature a goal that later VAR technology suggested was a false goal?
    That was using VAR cameras that can peer back through time, presumably?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,057

    Just on twitter, because I never really thought about it before. Are there any stats on how many tweets are sent per day (on average)?

    If google is correct, 500 million per day https://thesocialshepherd.com/blog/twitter-statistics
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,379
    Taz said:

    Foss said:

    If they keep those limits in the longer term it’s going to have a massive effect on both general campaigning and the sudden spread of outrage-of-the-minute topics.

    I think of reactivating my MySpace account.
    Bring back friendsreunited !!
    FriendsReReunited, shirley?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,462
    I've been out for much of today.

    Has out friendly pet troll been about yet, or has he been sacked?
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    viewcode said:

    Just on twitter, because I never really thought about it before. Are there any stats on how many tweets are sent per day (on average)?

    If google is correct, 500 million per day https://thesocialshepherd.com/blog/twitter-statistics
    Ah, interesting, thanks!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,627

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    WHY is the catching law so obscurantist?

    It should be, first, if the ball touches the grass or ground, within ten seconds of the catcher's fingers first making contact: Not Out

    Everything else is detail

    Surely the very essence of a catch is that you prevent the ball from touching the ground. Starc didn't prevent it from touching the ground for the very simple reason that it did touch the ground. I can't see what there is to argue about.
    Absolutely. It's absurd. It's like claiming you can score a goal without the ball actually crossing the goal line

    It's a fecking nonsense. Change the law: simplify it
    Didn't the 1966 World Cup Final feature a goal that later VAR technology suggested was a false goal?
    That was using VAR cameras that can peer back through time, presumably?
    Using the original footage of the match and putting an early version of the tech on it.

    Yes, I think it would have been as reliable as a Dominic Cummings blogpost too.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,358

    RobD said:


    Visegrád 24
    @visegrad24
    ·
    9m
    Please make sure to use your daily ration of tweets on Visegrad24 tweets!

    You can only read a certain number of tweets per day? Wow.
    Twitter has applied a temporary limit to the number of tweets users can read in a day, owner Elon Musk has said.

    In a tweet, Mr Musk said unverified accounts can read up to 600 posts a day.

    Verified accounts are limited to reading 6,000 posts a day, while newly unverified accounts can only see 300 posts per day, he added.

    Mr Musk said the temporary limits were to address "extreme levels" of data scraping and system manipulation.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-66077195
    I would struggle to read 60 a day, let alone 600.
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855

    Twitter is a menace, of course, but also provides (provided?) the only way to access communities of expertise.

    If it dies, a lot of value goes with it.

    Really? Tried Reddit?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,057
    Nigelb said:

    Latest suggestion is the Musk, following Mel Brook’s idea, has sold 500% of Twitter, and is now intentionally trying to bankrupt it before he has to deliver on the deal.

    "Springtime for Muskie and BocaChica..."
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,527
    geoffw said:

    Anyone know how to watch Wimbledon abroad in Europe?

    On TV? Tennis is quite a popular sport on the continent I understand, and I’m told that Wimbledon is one of the premier tournaments, so there may be enough interest for the local telly to show it. Just a hunch.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,057
    edited July 2023

    viewcode said:

    Just on twitter, because I never really thought about it before. Are there any stats on how many tweets are sent per day (on average)?

    If google is correct, 500 million per day https://thesocialshepherd.com/blog/twitter-statistics
    Ah, interesting, thanks!
    You're welcome :)
  • FossFoss Posts: 894

    Just on twitter, because I never really thought about it before. Are there any stats on how many tweets are sent per day (on average)?

    SocialBlade has trends on a per account basis (at least for the bigger accounts).
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,866
    EPG said:

    ohnotnow said:

    ydoethur said:

    EPG said:

    It's not just Rees-Mogg or old-fashioned bosses - practically all the major multinational companies are moving toward requiring more onsite time. Identifying the reasons why may be more enlightening than fretting about council staff. Maybe all of them know less about labour productivity than PB comments, but doubt it.

    Or alternatively, all of their managers are nervous about being seen to be no use.
    I had a conversation with someone 'on high' this week was very much of the 'on site' persuasion. Quite an extrovert and had the total conviction that people in an office all 'bounced ideas off each other', draw amazing plans on whiteboards, 'generated energy' etc.

    I was really curious as to whether that was their *actual* experience, or whether it was just a perception as an extrovert that an hour spent with people babbling over each other's conversations amounted to the same thing.

    The last meeting I was at where people used a whiteboard - I let them dribble away for over an hour drawing flowcharts until they were sated - then pointed out that there was no way to 'escape' the loop from the first part of the flowchart, so the remaining 90% was entirely redundant.

    Made myself very popular. Again.
    Pity you didn't point it out in the first five minutes, instead of sneering at your dribbling colleagues.
    Somebody invites me to a one hour meeting I want it to last an hour so I can charge an hour to their project.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 50,605
    Andy_JS said:

    RobD said:


    Visegrád 24
    @visegrad24
    ·
    9m
    Please make sure to use your daily ration of tweets on Visegrad24 tweets!

    You can only read a certain number of tweets per day? Wow.
    Twitter has applied a temporary limit to the number of tweets users can read in a day, owner Elon Musk has said.

    In a tweet, Mr Musk said unverified accounts can read up to 600 posts a day.

    Verified accounts are limited to reading 6,000 posts a day, while newly unverified accounts can only see 300 posts per day, he added.

    Mr Musk said the temporary limits were to address "extreme levels" of data scraping and system manipulation.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-66077195
    I would struggle to read 60 a day, let alone 600.
    The problem is that scrolling and reading are the same thing as far as Twitter is concerned.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,025
    Leon said:
    For the benefit of those of us outside of the twittersphere and no longer allowed to look in, what's going on?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,240
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:
    For the benefit of those of us outside of the twittersphere and no longer allowed to look in, what's going on?
    I'm afraid from now on you will have to pay me, for direct Twitter relay

    £3 per tweet. Them's the breaks. Blame Elon
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,761
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    WHY is the catching law so obscurantist?

    It should be, first, if the ball touches the grass or ground, within ten seconds of the catcher's fingers first making contact: Not Out

    Everything else is detail

    The law deliberately doesn't include a time limit because it's possible to juggle a ball for a long time without having control over it. Instead it's about having full control over the further disposal of it.
    Well if you can't control it, and avoid it hitting the ground, within ten seconds: Not Out

    Fairly simple

    The essence of a catch is keeping it off the ground, everything else is trivial. My simple law would allow you to toss it to someone else. It's just not allowed to hit the ground, within ten seconds of initial contact
    Any Aussies on here? If so, can you please advise whether all your countrymen are cheating convict bastards or just the ones you send over here to play cricket?
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,528
     
    DougSeal said:

    geoffw said:

    Anyone know how to watch Wimbledon abroad in Europe?

    On TV? Tennis is quite a popular sport on the continent I understand, and I’m told that Wimbledon is one of the premier tournaments, so there may be enough interest for the local telly to show it. Just a hunch.
    It's Finnish TV and they have never shown Wimbledon in my experience. I'm following up LostPassword's suggestion.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,627

    EPG said:

    ohnotnow said:

    ydoethur said:

    EPG said:

    It's not just Rees-Mogg or old-fashioned bosses - practically all the major multinational companies are moving toward requiring more onsite time. Identifying the reasons why may be more enlightening than fretting about council staff. Maybe all of them know less about labour productivity than PB comments, but doubt it.

    Or alternatively, all of their managers are nervous about being seen to be no use.
    I had a conversation with someone 'on high' this week was very much of the 'on site' persuasion. Quite an extrovert and had the total conviction that people in an office all 'bounced ideas off each other', draw amazing plans on whiteboards, 'generated energy' etc.

    I was really curious as to whether that was their *actual* experience, or whether it was just a perception as an extrovert that an hour spent with people babbling over each other's conversations amounted to the same thing.

    The last meeting I was at where people used a whiteboard - I let them dribble away for over an hour drawing flowcharts until they were sated - then pointed out that there was no way to 'escape' the loop from the first part of the flowchart, so the remaining 90% was entirely redundant.

    Made myself very popular. Again.
    Pity you didn't point it out in the first five minutes, instead of sneering at your dribbling colleagues.
    Somebody invites me to a one hour meeting I want it to last an hour so I can charge an hour to their project.
    I'd be surprised if they couldn't find some other useless nonsense to talk about, if I'm honest.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,761
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:
    For the benefit of those of us outside of the twittersphere and no longer allowed to look in, what's going on?
    I'm afraid from now on you will have to pay me, for direct Twitter relay

    £3 per tweet. Them's the breaks. Blame Elon
    Has anyone on here ever read a tweet worth £3?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,379
    edited July 2023
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:
    For the benefit of those of us outside of the twittersphere and no longer allowed to look in, what's going on?
    I predict, a riot.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,162
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:
    For the benefit of those of us outside of the twittersphere and no longer allowed to look in, what's going on?
    Nothing. Leon actually has quite a poor quality:shite content-of-tweet ratio. Uncharacteristic, since he is good at ferreting out news in general.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,627

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:
    For the benefit of those of us outside of the twittersphere and no longer allowed to look in, what's going on?
    I'm afraid from now on you will have to pay me, for direct Twitter relay

    £3 per tweet. Them's the breaks. Blame Elon
    Has anyone on here ever read a tweet worth £3?
    That one with the beat up Ford and Keith Vaz paying good money for 22 year old escorts was probably worth a five for lols.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:
    For the benefit of those of us outside of the twittersphere and no longer allowed to look in, what's going on?
    I'm afraid from now on you will have to pay me, for direct Twitter relay

    £3 per tweet. Them's the breaks. Blame Elon
    Has anyone on here ever read a tweet worth £3?
    500 million a day, statistically there must be one or two worth that.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,240

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:
    For the benefit of those of us outside of the twittersphere and no longer allowed to look in, what's going on?
    I'm afraid from now on you will have to pay me, for direct Twitter relay

    £3 per tweet. Them's the breaks. Blame Elon
    Has anyone on here ever read a tweet worth £3?
    Yes. The guy who used to do the Bang & Olufson tweet jokes. They were genuinely hilarious, and could sometimes make me laugh out loud for 30 seconds or so

    That's worth £3 for anyone
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,251
    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Sounds like it should have been out to me. Players throw the ball up in the air all the time before they've finished moving, and the ball usually hits the ground rather than being caught by someone else.

    The law does not say you stop moving, it says 'has complete control' over your movement. If you catch, land on your feet whilst moving, and throw the ball in the air immediately then you did have control, however immediately you threw the ball.

    This seems a clear case of people just not knowing what the law says, and getting angry it does not say what they think it says. It doesn't seem that controversial to me, as for example we see all the time people catching a ball clearly, hitting the ground, and the ball popping out without it counting as a catch - because they did not have control.

    Glemm McGrath can moan all he likes, but you can't just rub the ball on the ground after you catch - the moment is not dead.

    Just watched it. Even without the law, you'd have to do some serious mental contortions to say that should be classed as catch - the balls being scraped along the ground for an eternity.
    Just seen it myself. It's clearly not a catch, not even marginal.

    It's very closely analagous to the situation where a fielder makes a diving catch and the ball pops out of his hands when he hits the ground. The ball might be under control but the body isn't. It's the same here. He's used the ball, which is plainly grounded, to stabilise himself as he falls.

    Recant, Mr McGrath!
    The catcher generally knows perfectly well if he has made a good catch. Just as the batsman knows if he has snicked. Time for some sportsmanship.
    You have to think Starc didn't know or properly understand the law, because he could easily have put the matter beyond doubt by rolling over and keeping the ball off the ground.

    I don't think it was poor sportsmanship, just simply a player not fully knowing the laws of the game. That's common in most sports.
    You're too generous. Looking at Starc's quietly smirking countenance, I reckon this was simple cheating

    Or "gamesmanship" if you want to be ultra-polite
    Well, as you are going to the game tomorrow perhaps you can take the opportunity to tell Mr Starc that personally.

    Enjoy.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,089

    I've been out for much of today.

    Has out friendly pet troll been about yet, or has he been sacked?

    Good question. I have not been around today either. Did we get any Moscow Tourists today? If so, what quality were they?
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,601
    I still think we can win tomorrow 😈
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,440
    edited July 2023
    I'll avoid embedding tweets and just requote here...

    Martin Lewis:

    Quick note. I just saw BBC quoting new "typical use" price cap projections from October that seem quite a bit lower. Yet much of the reduction is because Ofgem has redefined typical use from then, as lower than it is now, rather than an actual reduction in what people pay.

    Seriously. What on earth is OFGEM playing at redefining 'typical usage' at this point in time.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,627

    I still think we can win tomorrow 😈

    I don't know what 'tomorrow' is or how we can win it.

    I'm just sad we're going to lose the cricket through carelessness.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,327
    Nigelb said:

    Elena Kagan Has Had Enough

    https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/01/opinion/elena-kagan-dissent-supreme-court.html
    … I don’t want to discuss Roberts’s majority opinion as much as I do Justice Elena Kagan’s dissent. Kagan wrote something unusual. She didn’t just challenge the chief justice’s reasoning, she questioned whether the court’s decision was even constitutional.

    “From the first page to the last, today’s opinion departs from the demands of judicial restraint,” Kagan wrote. “At the behest of a party that has suffered no injury, the majority decides a contested public policy issue properly belonging to the politically accountable branches and the people they represent.”

    She continued: “That is a major problem not just for governance, but for democracy too. Congress is of course a democratic institution; it responds, even if imperfectly, to the preferences of American voters. And agency officials, though not themselves elected, serve a President with the broadest of all political constituencies. But this Court? It is, by design, as detached as possible from the body politic. That is why the Court is supposed to stick to its business — to decide only cases and controversies, and to stay away from making this Nation’s policy about subjects like student-loan relief.”

    The court, Kagan concluded, “exercises authority it does not have. It violates the Constitution.”

    It’s a remarkable statement. To say that the Supreme Court can violate the Constitution is to reject the idea that the court is somehow outside the constitutional system. It is to remind the public that the court is as bound by the Constitution as the other branches, which is to say that it is subject to the same “checks and balances” as the legislature and the executive.

    Kagan’s dissent, in other words, is a call for accountability. For Congress, especially, to exercise its authority to discipline the court when it oversteps its bounds...

    This is getting worse than the SC in the FDR new deal era. Something is going to have to be done.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,627
    edited July 2023
    Pulpstar said:

    I'll avoid embedding tweets and just requote here...

    Martin Lewis:

    Quick note. I just saw BBC quoting new "typical use" price cap projections from October that seem quite a bit lower. Yet much of the reduction is because Ofgem has redefined typical use from then, as lower than it is now, rather than an actual reduction in what people pay.

    Seriously. What on earth is OFGEM playing at redefining 'typical usage'.

    The whole price cap reporting is shambolic. I want to know what the cap is per unit and on the standing charge, so I can work out my own bill. All else is a nonsense.

    In fairness, though, I gather it isn't arranged that way by Ofgem.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,327

    I still think we can win tomorrow 😈

    Indeed. It belongs to me, apparently.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,601
    ydoethur said:

    I still think we can win tomorrow 😈

    I don't know what 'tomorrow' is or how we can win it.

    I'm just sad we're going to lose the cricket through carelessness.
    Better fielding in AUS first innings and batting in our first innings would have reduced the target by 100 but we can still hope 👍
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,003
    edited July 2023
    Leading Tories call for a referendum on the UK's membership of the ECHR to be in the party's next manifesto
    https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/tories-new-uk-referendum-migrants-rwanda-plan-appeal-court-2447225
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,627

    ydoethur said:

    I still think we can win tomorrow 😈

    I don't know what 'tomorrow' is or how we can win it.

    I'm just sad we're going to lose the cricket through carelessness.
    Better fielding in AUS first innings and batting in our first innings would have reduced the target by 100 but we can still hope 👍
    Better batting in our first innings would have reduced the target by a lot more than 100.

    And with honourable exceptions the fielding has been very ordinary.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,627
    HYUFD said:

    Leading Tories call for a referendum on the UK's membership of the ECHR to be in the party's next manifesto

    All sane people call for those 'leading Tories' not to be standing for the party at the next election.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,440
    edited July 2023
    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I'll avoid embedding tweets and just requote here...

    Martin Lewis:

    Quick note. I just saw BBC quoting new "typical use" price cap projections from October that seem quite a bit lower. Yet much of the reduction is because Ofgem has redefined typical use from then, as lower than it is now, rather than an actual reduction in what people pay.

    Seriously. What on earth is OFGEM playing at redefining 'typical usage'.

    The whole price cap reporting is shambolic. I want to know what the cap is per unit and on the standing charge, so I can work out my own bill. All else is a nonsense.
    Though

    Scharge(Gas + elec) + (Units of gas***)*Unit price gas + Units*Unit price Electricity is a bit complicated to get over on a tweet or headline or some such.

    Units of gas*** - This is actually weirdly complicated for large business accounts as the calorific conversion is seemingly random from day to day, the variance it causes in domestic bills would be small though. But when you read your gas and if you have a smartmeter could well affect your bill by a few pence.

    A "typical use" is a useful shorthand. But it's a total nonsense to adjust the typical usage from one year to the next. Or well if it needs to be done - which it probably does over long timescales then it should be reset every 5 years say NOT slap bang in the middle of a period of high inflation and changing gas/elec prices.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,594

    I still think we can win tomorrow 😈

    It would be great if we did - if only for the hilarity of listening to Aussies moan about Mitchell Starc's wrongly overturned catch for ever.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,272
    HYUFD said:

    Leading Tories call for a referendum on the UK's membership of the ECHR to be in the party's next manifesto
    https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/tories-new-uk-referendum-migrants-rwanda-plan-appeal-court-2447225

    Ah!
    A referendum.
    That's just what we need.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,240
    The very best of Twitter lives in your mind forever

    It has an uncanny genius. The character limit is crucial. It's like a poetic formula, like the 14 line ABAB template of a sonnet. It forces you to work within severe constraints, and that discipline makes for hilarious exchanges, when it works

    It also allows for a lot of tedious, staccato insults and slurs, but hey. No roses sans thorns etc
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 50,605
    HYUFD said:

    Leading Tories call for a referendum on the UK's membership of the ECHR to be in the party's next manifesto
    https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/tories-new-uk-referendum-migrants-rwanda-plan-appeal-court-2447225

    Why not hold it on the same day as the next election? There’s a good chance you’d end up giving the implementation of it to Starmer.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,358
    I hope this isn't true.

    "HSBC departure spells doom for isolated experiment of Canary Wharf
    A moated, gated, privatised space divided from the rest of London may have had its day
    EDWIN HEATHCOTE"

    https://www.ft.com/content/40ff10b9-6e8e-4df6-8753-0e3af571b794
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,327
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    I still think we can win tomorrow 😈

    I don't know what 'tomorrow' is or how we can win it.

    I'm just sad we're going to lose the cricket through carelessness.
    Better fielding in AUS first innings and batting in our first innings would have reduced the target by 100 but we can still hope 👍
    Better batting in our first innings would have reduced the target by a lot more than 100.

    And with honourable exceptions the fielding has been very ordinary.
    The 6 knocked back over the boundary against Stark was a truly extraordinary piece of fielding.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,003

    HYUFD said:

    Leading Tories call for a referendum on the UK's membership of the ECHR to be in the party's next manifesto
    https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/tories-new-uk-referendum-migrants-rwanda-plan-appeal-court-2447225

    Why not hold it on the same day as the next election? There’s a good chance you’d end up giving the implementation of it to Starmer.
    As the main aim would be to drive Tory turnout to vote Tory to get the referendum I suspect
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,379
    Andy_JS said:

    I hope this isn't true.

    "HSBC departure spells doom for isolated experiment of Canary Wharf
    A moated, gated, privatised space divided from the rest of London may have had its day
    EDWIN HEATHCOTE"

    https://www.ft.com/content/40ff10b9-6e8e-4df6-8753-0e3af571b794

    "...The floor plates of those bank towers are too deep for conversion to residential and it remains isolated..."

    Why would that be an issue? Too shallow, I could understand.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,003
    Andy_JS said:

    I hope this isn't true.

    "HSBC departure spells doom for isolated experiment of Canary Wharf
    A moated, gated, privatised space divided from the rest of London may have had its day
    EDWIN HEATHCOTE"

    https://www.ft.com/content/40ff10b9-6e8e-4df6-8753-0e3af571b794

    Hope not, it was a key part of revitalising the old Docklands
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,761
    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:
    For the benefit of those of us outside of the twittersphere and no longer allowed to look in, what's going on?
    I'm afraid from now on you will have to pay me, for direct Twitter relay

    £3 per tweet. Them's the breaks. Blame Elon
    Has anyone on here ever read a tweet worth £3?
    That one with the beat up Ford and Keith Vaz paying good money for 22 year old escorts was probably worth a five for lols.
    Also this immortal tweet exchange from and about Gerry Adams:

    Gerry Adams
    @GerryAdamsSF

    Dec 22, 2016
    This house is like Santa's Grotto. Takes half an hour 2 switch off fairy lights and assorted Yule illuminations. Feel like a grinch now.

    Paul Mcleod
    @paul_mcleod
    surely you know someone who can fit a timer
    Accepted! If anyone can send me Elon Musk’s bank details, I’ll forward him £3.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,240
    Andy_JS said:

    I hope this isn't true.

    "HSBC departure spells doom for isolated experiment of Canary Wharf
    A moated, gated, privatised space divided from the rest of London may have had its day
    EDWIN HEATHCOTE"

    https://www.ft.com/content/40ff10b9-6e8e-4df6-8753-0e3af571b794

    Remainery pessimistic FT bollocks. Crucially, Canary Wharf has incredible transport connections, now: it has the Tube AND the DLR AND now the Liz Line (offering a cheap direct 45 minute trip to LHR central). It has City Airport on its doorstep, and the Thames. It has 100,000 workers, and multiple hotels, restaurants, bars, the works

    Has it been shaken by Covid? Yes. But much less than, say, many downtowns in America

    If Canary Wharf is "doomed" then you might as well say London itself is "doomed". Some banks may move out due to WFH but at a certain price point moving back into Canary Wharf (with its amazing views, transport, the like) will become desirable for, say, tech companies or media or whatever

    Pure clickbait. Ignore
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,379
    Pulpstar said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I'll avoid embedding tweets and just requote here...

    Martin Lewis:

    Quick note. I just saw BBC quoting new "typical use" price cap projections from October that seem quite a bit lower. Yet much of the reduction is because Ofgem has redefined typical use from then, as lower than it is now, rather than an actual reduction in what people pay.

    Seriously. What on earth is OFGEM playing at redefining 'typical usage'.

    The whole price cap reporting is shambolic. I want to know what the cap is per unit and on the standing charge, so I can work out my own bill. All else is a nonsense.
    Though

    Scharge(Gas + elec) + (Units of gas***)*Unit price gas + Units*Unit price Electricity is a bit complicated to get over on a tweet or headline or some such.

    Units of gas*** - This is actually weirdly complicated for large business accounts as the calorific conversion is seemingly random from day to day, the variance it causes in domestic bills would be small though. But when you read your gas and if you have a smartmeter could well affect your bill by a few pence.

    A "typical use" is a useful shorthand. But it's a total nonsense to adjust the typical usage from one year to the next. Or well if it needs to be done - which it probably does over long timescales then it should be reset every 5 years say NOT slap bang in the middle of a period of high inflation and changing gas/elec prices.
    What's wrong with pence per kWh?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,761
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I hope this isn't true.

    "HSBC departure spells doom for isolated experiment of Canary Wharf
    A moated, gated, privatised space divided from the rest of London may have had its day
    EDWIN HEATHCOTE"

    https://www.ft.com/content/40ff10b9-6e8e-4df6-8753-0e3af571b794

    Remainery pessimistic FT bollocks. Crucially, Canary Wharf has incredible transport connections, now: it has the Tube AND the DLR AND now the Liz Line (offering a cheap direct 45 minute trip to LHR central). It has City Airport on its doorstep, and the Thames. It has 100,000 workers, and multiple hotels, restaurants, bars, the works

    Has it been shaken by Covid? Yes. But much less than, say, many downtowns in America

    If Canary Wharf is "doomed" then you might as well say London itself is "doomed". Some banks may move out due to WFH but at a certain price point moving back into Canary Wharf (with its amazing views, transport, the like) will become desirable for, say, tech companies or media or whatever

    Pure clickbait. Ignore
    Unfortunately, like the rest of the UK, it’s no longer part of Europe. Another brexit dividend.
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,256

    HYUFD said:

    Leading Tories call for a referendum on the UK's membership of the ECHR to be in the party's next manifesto
    https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/tories-new-uk-referendum-migrants-rwanda-plan-appeal-court-2447225

    Why not hold it on the same day as the next election? There’s a good chance you’d end up giving the implementation of it to Starmer.
    Labour just put in their manifesto they won't leave the EHRC regardless.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,358
    edited July 2023
    O/T

    I can't find the highlights for today's play at Lords on the BBC iPlayer. They said it would be available at 7pm.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/group/m000kqyz
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 16,544
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leading Tories call for a referendum on the UK's membership of the ECHR to be in the party's next manifesto

    All sane people call for those 'leading Tories' not to be standing for the party at the next election.
    Worth noting that the i itself (I get it for the puzzles) cites Jonathan Gullis and Boris Johnson.

    Which is an interesting definition of "leading".
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,379
    edited July 2023
    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    I can't find the highlights for today's play at Lords on the BBC iPlayer. They said it would be available at 7pm.

    Yeah that's curious - we had them set up to record but when I checked they've not been recorded.

    Edit: Just checked, the ashes highlights are being broadcast at 23:50 on BBC2

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/guide/bbctwo/20230701

    I suspect they are later than usual because of the Women's T20, which was live on BBC this evening.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,240
    edited July 2023

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I hope this isn't true.

    "HSBC departure spells doom for isolated experiment of Canary Wharf
    A moated, gated, privatised space divided from the rest of London may have had its day
    EDWIN HEATHCOTE"

    https://www.ft.com/content/40ff10b9-6e8e-4df6-8753-0e3af571b794

    Remainery pessimistic FT bollocks. Crucially, Canary Wharf has incredible transport connections, now: it has the Tube AND the DLR AND now the Liz Line (offering a cheap direct 45 minute trip to LHR central). It has City Airport on its doorstep, and the Thames. It has 100,000 workers, and multiple hotels, restaurants, bars, the works

    Has it been shaken by Covid? Yes. But much less than, say, many downtowns in America

    If Canary Wharf is "doomed" then you might as well say London itself is "doomed". Some banks may move out due to WFH but at a certain price point moving back into Canary Wharf (with its amazing views, transport, the like) will become desirable for, say, tech companies or media or whatever

    Pure clickbait. Ignore
    Unfortunately, like the rest of the UK, it’s no longer part of Europe. Another brexit dividend.
    I was unaware that Brexit had physically moved us into the western Hemisphere and made us part of the Americas

    There is actually a good article about this pernicious, mastubatory, Remainery pessimism in, yes, the FT

    "Britain must break out of its doom loop
    Brexit, Covid and terrible governments have left their scars but our national despondency is becoming a trap"

    https://www.ft.com/content/aa3bb4ab-d0e4-4af3-9730-b99373e57d37

    Yes, Britain has its probems. Yes, Brexit hasn't helped in many cases. But is Britain actually spiralling into terminal decay? Get a grip. Until a few days ago you might have pointed at France, and said, Look, they are doing much better

    Today? - that sounds ridiculous. Ditto everywhere else

    All countries are facing headwinds. We can cope with ours. We are over-thinking ourselves into self-destructive despair. As the writer says in that piece, it takes an American to finally snap "FFS, I live in London, it's still one of the greatest cities in the world, stop whining"

    The idea Canary Wharf (and London) is doomed and is going to become some sort of ghost town is as absurd as the most facile Leaver optimism in early 2016
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,358

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    I can't find the highlights for today's play at Lords on the BBC iPlayer. They said it would be available at 7pm.

    Yeah that's curious - we had them set up to record but when I checked they've not been recorded.
    Glad it's not just me.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,379
    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    I can't find the highlights for today's play at Lords on the BBC iPlayer. They said it would be available at 7pm.

    Yeah that's curious - we had them set up to record but when I checked they've not been recorded.
    Glad it's not just me.
    They're on at 23:50.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,271
    edited July 2023
    HYUFD said:

    Leading Tories call for a referendum on the UK's membership of the ECHR to be in the party's next manifesto
    https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/tories-new-uk-referendum-migrants-rwanda-plan-appeal-court-2447225

    The only "leading Tories" (sic) mentioned in the article is Jonathan Gullis, the MP for Stoke North. It's fair to say that not even you could regard Mr Gullis as a leading thinker, even in the current iteration of the Tory Party. He makes Lee Anderson look thoughtful. To put it as politely as I can, Gullis is as thick as pigshit and unpleasant to boot.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,761
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I hope this isn't true.

    "HSBC departure spells doom for isolated experiment of Canary Wharf
    A moated, gated, privatised space divided from the rest of London may have had its day
    EDWIN HEATHCOTE"

    https://www.ft.com/content/40ff10b9-6e8e-4df6-8753-0e3af571b794

    Remainery pessimistic FT bollocks. Crucially, Canary Wharf has incredible transport connections, now: it has the Tube AND the DLR AND now the Liz Line (offering a cheap direct 45 minute trip to LHR central). It has City Airport on its doorstep, and the Thames. It has 100,000 workers, and multiple hotels, restaurants, bars, the works

    Has it been shaken by Covid? Yes. But much less than, say, many downtowns in America

    If Canary Wharf is "doomed" then you might as well say London itself is "doomed". Some banks may move out due to WFH but at a certain price point moving back into Canary Wharf (with its amazing views, transport, the like) will become desirable for, say, tech companies or media or whatever

    Pure clickbait. Ignore
    Unfortunately, like the rest of the UK, it’s no longer part of Europe. Another brexit dividend.
    I was unaware the Brexit had physically moved us into the western Hemisphere and made us part of the Americas

    There is actually a good article about this pernicious, mastubatory, Remainery pessimism in, yes, the FT

    "Britain must break out of its doom loop
    Brexit, Covid and terrible governments have left their scars but our national despondency is becoming a trap"

    https://www.ft.com/content/aa3bb4ab-d0e4-4af3-9730-b99373e57d37

    Yes, Britain has its probems. Yes, Brexit hasn't helped in many cases. But is Britain actually spiralling into terminal decay? Get a grip. Until a few days ago you might have pointed at France, and said, Look, they are doing much better?

    Today? - that sounds ridiculous. Ditto everywhere else

    All countries are facing headwinds. We can cope with ours. We are over-thinking ourselves into self-destructive despair. As the writer says in that piece, it takes an American to finally snap "FFS, I live in London, it's still one of the greatest cities in the world, stop whining"

    The idea Canary Wharf (and London) is doomed and is going to become some sort of ghost town is as absurd as the most facile Leaver optimism in early 2016
    Your nasty racist Brexit project has failed. Suck it up, loser.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,022
    HYUFD said:

    Leading Tories call for a referendum on the UK's membership of the ECHR to be in the party's next manifesto
    https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/tories-new-uk-referendum-migrants-rwanda-plan-appeal-court-2447225

    Simply idiotic core vote nonsense which hopefully Sunak will resist

    The self awareness of these people is bizarre, not least as a referendum would show them for what they are and gain little support
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,379
    edited July 2023
    Well, the test match is as finely balanced as this boat thingy:

    image
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,228
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I hope this isn't true.

    "HSBC departure spells doom for isolated experiment of Canary Wharf
    A moated, gated, privatised space divided from the rest of London may have had its day
    EDWIN HEATHCOTE"

    https://www.ft.com/content/40ff10b9-6e8e-4df6-8753-0e3af571b794

    Remainery pessimistic FT bollocks. Crucially, Canary Wharf has incredible transport connections, now: it has the Tube AND the DLR AND now the Liz Line (offering a cheap direct 45 minute trip to LHR central). It has City Airport on its doorstep, and the Thames. It has 100,000 workers, and multiple hotels, restaurants, bars, the works

    Has it been shaken by Covid? Yes. But much less than, say, many downtowns in America

    If Canary Wharf is "doomed" then you might as well say London itself is "doomed". Some banks may move out due to WFH but at a certain price point moving back into Canary Wharf (with its amazing views, transport, the like) will become desirable for, say, tech companies or media or whatever

    Pure clickbait. Ignore
    Unfortunately, like the rest of the UK, it’s no longer part of Europe. Another brexit dividend.
    I was unaware that Brexit had physically moved us into the western Hemisphere and made us part of the Americas

    There is actually a good article about this pernicious, mastubatory, Remainery pessimism in, yes, the FT

    "Britain must break out of its doom loop
    Brexit, Covid and terrible governments have left their scars but our national despondency is becoming a trap"

    https://www.ft.com/content/aa3bb4ab-d0e4-4af3-9730-b99373e57d37

    Yes, Britain has its probems. Yes, Brexit hasn't helped in many cases. But is Britain actually spiralling into terminal decay? Get a grip. Until a few days ago you might have pointed at France, and said, Look, they are doing much better

    Today? - that sounds ridiculous. Ditto everywhere else

    All countries are facing headwinds. We can cope with ours. We are over-thinking ourselves into self-destructive despair. As the writer says in that piece, it takes an American to finally snap "FFS, I live in London, it's still one of the greatest cities in the world, stop whining"

    The idea Canary Wharf (and London) is doomed and is going to become some sort of ghost town is as absurd as the most facile Leaver optimism in early 2016
    Canary Wharf might actually be doomed, though. It is the nearest thing to the deserted Central Business Districts that you wandered around in the US.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,272
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I hope this isn't true.

    "HSBC departure spells doom for isolated experiment of Canary Wharf
    A moated, gated, privatised space divided from the rest of London may have had its day
    EDWIN HEATHCOTE"

    https://www.ft.com/content/40ff10b9-6e8e-4df6-8753-0e3af571b794

    Remainery pessimistic FT bollocks. Crucially, Canary Wharf has incredible transport connections, now: it has the Tube AND the DLR AND now the Liz Line (offering a cheap direct 45 minute trip to LHR central). It has City Airport on its doorstep, and the Thames. It has 100,000 workers, and multiple hotels, restaurants, bars, the works

    Has it been shaken by Covid? Yes. But much less than, say, many downtowns in America

    If Canary Wharf is "doomed" then you might as well say London itself is "doomed". Some banks may move out due to WFH but at a certain price point moving back into Canary Wharf (with its amazing views, transport, the like) will become desirable for, say, tech companies or media or whatever

    Pure clickbait. Ignore
    Unfortunately, like the rest of the UK, it’s no longer part of Europe. Another brexit dividend.
    I was unaware that Brexit had physically moved us into the western Hemisphere and made us part of the Americas

    There is actually a good article about this pernicious, mastubatory, Remainery pessimism in, yes, the FT

    "Britain must break out of its doom loop
    Brexit, Covid and terrible governments have left their scars but our national despondency is becoming a trap"

    https://www.ft.com/content/aa3bb4ab-d0e4-4af3-9730-b99373e57d37

    Yes, Britain has its probems. Yes, Brexit hasn't helped in many cases. But is Britain actually spiralling into terminal decay? Get a grip. Until a few days ago you might have pointed at France, and said, Look, they are doing much better

    Today? - that sounds ridiculous. Ditto everywhere else

    All countries are facing headwinds. We can cope with ours. We are over-thinking ourselves into self-destructive despair. As the writer says in that piece, it takes an American to finally snap "FFS, I live in London, it's still one of the greatest cities in the world, stop whining"

    The idea Canary Wharf (and London) is doomed and is going to become some sort of ghost town is as absurd as the most facile Leaver optimism in early 2016
    As a pedant, it is my duty to point out that the vast majority of the UK always was in the Western Hemisphere.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 16,544

    HYUFD said:

    Leading Tories call for a referendum on the UK's membership of the ECHR to be in the party's next manifesto
    https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/tories-new-uk-referendum-migrants-rwanda-plan-appeal-court-2447225

    The only "leading Tories" (sic) mentioned in the article is Jonathan Gullis, the MP for Stoke North. It's fair to say that not even you could regard Mr Gullis as a leading thinker, even in the current iteration of the Tory Party. He makes Lee Anderson look thoughtful. To put it as politely as I can, Gullis is as thick as pigshit and unpleasant to boot.
    Hate to say it, but what is it with teachers who become Conservative MPs? Not just Gullis, but Lia Nici as well. (And not an MP, but just as politically prominent, Fr Calvin Robinson as well.)
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,761

    HYUFD said:

    Leading Tories call for a referendum on the UK's membership of the ECHR to be in the party's next manifesto
    https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/tories-new-uk-referendum-migrants-rwanda-plan-appeal-court-2447225

    Simply idiotic core vote nonsense which hopefully Sunak will resist

    The self awareness of these people is bizarre, not least as a referendum would show them for what they are and gain little support
    Such a referendum would cause a fundamental split in the Tory party between the remaining traditional Tories and the Kippers that seem to have infiltrated their membership.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,528
    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I hope this isn't true.

    "HSBC departure spells doom for isolated experiment of Canary Wharf
    A moated, gated, privatised space divided from the rest of London may have had its day
    EDWIN HEATHCOTE"

    https://www.ft.com/content/40ff10b9-6e8e-4df6-8753-0e3af571b794

    Remainery pessimistic FT bollocks. Crucially, Canary Wharf has incredible transport connections, now: it has the Tube AND the DLR AND now the Liz Line (offering a cheap direct 45 minute trip to LHR central). It has City Airport on its doorstep, and the Thames. It has 100,000 workers, and multiple hotels, restaurants, bars, the works

    Has it been shaken by Covid? Yes. But much less than, say, many downtowns in America

    If Canary Wharf is "doomed" then you might as well say London itself is "doomed". Some banks may move out due to WFH but at a certain price point moving back into Canary Wharf (with its amazing views, transport, the like) will become desirable for, say, tech companies or media or whatever

    Pure clickbait. Ignore
    Unfortunately, like the rest of the UK, it’s no longer part of Europe. Another brexit dividend.
    I was unaware that Brexit had physically moved us into the western Hemisphere and made us part of the Americas

    There is actually a good article about this pernicious, mastubatory, Remainery pessimism in, yes, the FT

    "Britain must break out of its doom loop
    Brexit, Covid and terrible governments have left their scars but our national despondency is becoming a trap"

    https://www.ft.com/content/aa3bb4ab-d0e4-4af3-9730-b99373e57d37

    Yes, Britain has its probems. Yes, Brexit hasn't helped in many cases. But is Britain actually spiralling into terminal decay? Get a grip. Until a few days ago you might have pointed at France, and said, Look, they are doing much better

    Today? - that sounds ridiculous. Ditto everywhere else

    All countries are facing headwinds. We can cope with ours. We are over-thinking ourselves into self-destructive despair. As the writer says in that piece, it takes an American to finally snap "FFS, I live in London, it's still one of the greatest cities in the world, stop whining"

    The idea Canary Wharf (and London) is doomed and is going to become some sort of ghost town is as absurd as the most facile Leaver optimism in early 2016
    As a pedant, it is my duty to point out that the vast majority of the UK always was in the Western Hemisphere.
    Where does the Western Hemisphere begin?

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,358

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    I can't find the highlights for today's play at Lords on the BBC iPlayer. They said it would be available at 7pm.

    Yeah that's curious - we had them set up to record but when I checked they've not been recorded.
    Glad it's not just me.
    They're on at 23:50.
    Thanks. But why did TMS spend the whole day saying they'd be available at 7pm? Bit of a mystery.
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    geoffw said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I hope this isn't true.

    "HSBC departure spells doom for isolated experiment of Canary Wharf
    A moated, gated, privatised space divided from the rest of London may have had its day
    EDWIN HEATHCOTE"

    https://www.ft.com/content/40ff10b9-6e8e-4df6-8753-0e3af571b794

    Remainery pessimistic FT bollocks. Crucially, Canary Wharf has incredible transport connections, now: it has the Tube AND the DLR AND now the Liz Line (offering a cheap direct 45 minute trip to LHR central). It has City Airport on its doorstep, and the Thames. It has 100,000 workers, and multiple hotels, restaurants, bars, the works

    Has it been shaken by Covid? Yes. But much less than, say, many downtowns in America

    If Canary Wharf is "doomed" then you might as well say London itself is "doomed". Some banks may move out due to WFH but at a certain price point moving back into Canary Wharf (with its amazing views, transport, the like) will become desirable for, say, tech companies or media or whatever

    Pure clickbait. Ignore
    Unfortunately, like the rest of the UK, it’s no longer part of Europe. Another brexit dividend.
    I was unaware that Brexit had physically moved us into the western Hemisphere and made us part of the Americas

    There is actually a good article about this pernicious, mastubatory, Remainery pessimism in, yes, the FT

    "Britain must break out of its doom loop
    Brexit, Covid and terrible governments have left their scars but our national despondency is becoming a trap"

    https://www.ft.com/content/aa3bb4ab-d0e4-4af3-9730-b99373e57d37

    Yes, Britain has its probems. Yes, Brexit hasn't helped in many cases. But is Britain actually spiralling into terminal decay? Get a grip. Until a few days ago you might have pointed at France, and said, Look, they are doing much better

    Today? - that sounds ridiculous. Ditto everywhere else

    All countries are facing headwinds. We can cope with ours. We are over-thinking ourselves into self-destructive despair. As the writer says in that piece, it takes an American to finally snap "FFS, I live in London, it's still one of the greatest cities in the world, stop whining"

    The idea Canary Wharf (and London) is doomed and is going to become some sort of ghost town is as absurd as the most facile Leaver optimism in early 2016
    As a pedant, it is my duty to point out that the vast majority of the UK always was in the Western Hemisphere.
    Where does the Western Hemisphere begin?

    Green witch
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,455
    geoffw said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I hope this isn't true.

    "HSBC departure spells doom for isolated experiment of Canary Wharf
    A moated, gated, privatised space divided from the rest of London may have had its day
    EDWIN HEATHCOTE"

    https://www.ft.com/content/40ff10b9-6e8e-4df6-8753-0e3af571b794

    Remainery pessimistic FT bollocks. Crucially, Canary Wharf has incredible transport connections, now: it has the Tube AND the DLR AND now the Liz Line (offering a cheap direct 45 minute trip to LHR central). It has City Airport on its doorstep, and the Thames. It has 100,000 workers, and multiple hotels, restaurants, bars, the works

    Has it been shaken by Covid? Yes. But much less than, say, many downtowns in America

    If Canary Wharf is "doomed" then you might as well say London itself is "doomed". Some banks may move out due to WFH but at a certain price point moving back into Canary Wharf (with its amazing views, transport, the like) will become desirable for, say, tech companies or media or whatever

    Pure clickbait. Ignore
    Unfortunately, like the rest of the UK, it’s no longer part of Europe. Another brexit dividend.
    I was unaware that Brexit had physically moved us into the western Hemisphere and made us part of the Americas

    There is actually a good article about this pernicious, mastubatory, Remainery pessimism in, yes, the FT

    "Britain must break out of its doom loop
    Brexit, Covid and terrible governments have left their scars but our national despondency is becoming a trap"

    https://www.ft.com/content/aa3bb4ab-d0e4-4af3-9730-b99373e57d37

    Yes, Britain has its probems. Yes, Brexit hasn't helped in many cases. But is Britain actually spiralling into terminal decay? Get a grip. Until a few days ago you might have pointed at France, and said, Look, they are doing much better

    Today? - that sounds ridiculous. Ditto everywhere else

    All countries are facing headwinds. We can cope with ours. We are over-thinking ourselves into self-destructive despair. As the writer says in that piece, it takes an American to finally snap "FFS, I live in London, it's still one of the greatest cities in the world, stop whining"

    The idea Canary Wharf (and London) is doomed and is going to become some sort of ghost town is as absurd as the most facile Leaver optimism in early 2016
    As a pedant, it is my duty to point out that the vast majority of the UK always was in the Western Hemisphere.
    Where does the Western Hemisphere begin?

    The transit circle at Greenwich.

    https://www.rmg.co.uk/stories/topics/airys-transit-circle-dawn-universal-day
  • eekeek Posts: 27,481
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I hope this isn't true.

    "HSBC departure spells doom for isolated experiment of Canary Wharf
    A moated, gated, privatised space divided from the rest of London may have had its day
    EDWIN HEATHCOTE"

    https://www.ft.com/content/40ff10b9-6e8e-4df6-8753-0e3af571b794

    Remainery pessimistic FT bollocks. Crucially, Canary Wharf has incredible transport connections, now: it has the Tube AND the DLR AND now the Liz Line (offering a cheap direct 45 minute trip to LHR central). It has City Airport on its doorstep, and the Thames. It has 100,000 workers, and multiple hotels, restaurants, bars, the works

    Has it been shaken by Covid? Yes. But much less than, say, many downtowns in America

    If Canary Wharf is "doomed" then you might as well say London itself is "doomed". Some banks may move out due to WFH but at a certain price point moving back into Canary Wharf (with its amazing views, transport, the like) will become desirable for, say, tech companies or media or whatever

    Pure clickbait. Ignore
    Not really - Leeds is a brilliant example of where over the past 30 years the centre of the town has moved backwards and forwards as a newer shopping centre shifts the centre of the city from one side of town to the other and then back again.

    Canary Wharf is now full of buildings about to need refurbishing so I suspect we will see 10-15 years of firms moving back to the City (northern parts near the Metropolitan / Elizabeth lines) before Canary Wharf returns to be of interest...
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,379
    geoffw said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I hope this isn't true.

    "HSBC departure spells doom for isolated experiment of Canary Wharf
    A moated, gated, privatised space divided from the rest of London may have had its day
    EDWIN HEATHCOTE"

    https://www.ft.com/content/40ff10b9-6e8e-4df6-8753-0e3af571b794

    Remainery pessimistic FT bollocks. Crucially, Canary Wharf has incredible transport connections, now: it has the Tube AND the DLR AND now the Liz Line (offering a cheap direct 45 minute trip to LHR central). It has City Airport on its doorstep, and the Thames. It has 100,000 workers, and multiple hotels, restaurants, bars, the works

    Has it been shaken by Covid? Yes. But much less than, say, many downtowns in America

    If Canary Wharf is "doomed" then you might as well say London itself is "doomed". Some banks may move out due to WFH but at a certain price point moving back into Canary Wharf (with its amazing views, transport, the like) will become desirable for, say, tech companies or media or whatever

    Pure clickbait. Ignore
    Unfortunately, like the rest of the UK, it’s no longer part of Europe. Another brexit dividend.
    I was unaware that Brexit had physically moved us into the western Hemisphere and made us part of the Americas

    There is actually a good article about this pernicious, mastubatory, Remainery pessimism in, yes, the FT

    "Britain must break out of its doom loop
    Brexit, Covid and terrible governments have left their scars but our national despondency is becoming a trap"

    https://www.ft.com/content/aa3bb4ab-d0e4-4af3-9730-b99373e57d37

    Yes, Britain has its probems. Yes, Brexit hasn't helped in many cases. But is Britain actually spiralling into terminal decay? Get a grip. Until a few days ago you might have pointed at France, and said, Look, they are doing much better

    Today? - that sounds ridiculous. Ditto everywhere else

    All countries are facing headwinds. We can cope with ours. We are over-thinking ourselves into self-destructive despair. As the writer says in that piece, it takes an American to finally snap "FFS, I live in London, it's still one of the greatest cities in the world, stop whining"

    The idea Canary Wharf (and London) is doomed and is going to become some sort of ghost town is as absurd as the most facile Leaver optimism in early 2016
    As a pedant, it is my duty to point out that the vast majority of the UK always was in the Western Hemisphere.
    Where does the Western Hemisphere begin?

    Right next to where the Eastern one finishes?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,092

    Well, the test match is as finely balanced as this boat thingy:

    image

    "I'm sorry I didn't build you a stronger Test Side, young Rose."
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,272
    geoffw said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I hope this isn't true.

    "HSBC departure spells doom for isolated experiment of Canary Wharf
    A moated, gated, privatised space divided from the rest of London may have had its day
    EDWIN HEATHCOTE"

    https://www.ft.com/content/40ff10b9-6e8e-4df6-8753-0e3af571b794

    Remainery pessimistic FT bollocks. Crucially, Canary Wharf has incredible transport connections, now: it has the Tube AND the DLR AND now the Liz Line (offering a cheap direct 45 minute trip to LHR central). It has City Airport on its doorstep, and the Thames. It has 100,000 workers, and multiple hotels, restaurants, bars, the works

    Has it been shaken by Covid? Yes. But much less than, say, many downtowns in America

    If Canary Wharf is "doomed" then you might as well say London itself is "doomed". Some banks may move out due to WFH but at a certain price point moving back into Canary Wharf (with its amazing views, transport, the like) will become desirable for, say, tech companies or media or whatever

    Pure clickbait. Ignore
    Unfortunately, like the rest of the UK, it’s no longer part of Europe. Another brexit dividend.
    I was unaware that Brexit had physically moved us into the western Hemisphere and made us part of the Americas

    There is actually a good article about this pernicious, mastubatory, Remainery pessimism in, yes, the FT

    "Britain must break out of its doom loop
    Brexit, Covid and terrible governments have left their scars but our national despondency is becoming a trap"

    https://www.ft.com/content/aa3bb4ab-d0e4-4af3-9730-b99373e57d37

    Yes, Britain has its probems. Yes, Brexit hasn't helped in many cases. But is Britain actually spiralling into terminal decay? Get a grip. Until a few days ago you might have pointed at France, and said, Look, they are doing much better

    Today? - that sounds ridiculous. Ditto everywhere else

    All countries are facing headwinds. We can cope with ours. We are over-thinking ourselves into self-destructive despair. As the writer says in that piece, it takes an American to finally snap "FFS, I live in London, it's still one of the greatest cities in the world, stop whining"

    The idea Canary Wharf (and London) is doomed and is going to become some sort of ghost town is as absurd as the most facile Leaver optimism in early 2016
    As a pedant, it is my duty to point out that the vast majority of the UK always was in the Western Hemisphere.
    Where does the Western Hemisphere begin?

    Greenwich I assumed.
    That's where your longitude changes from W to E.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,240
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I hope this isn't true.

    "HSBC departure spells doom for isolated experiment of Canary Wharf
    A moated, gated, privatised space divided from the rest of London may have had its day
    EDWIN HEATHCOTE"

    https://www.ft.com/content/40ff10b9-6e8e-4df6-8753-0e3af571b794

    Remainery pessimistic FT bollocks. Crucially, Canary Wharf has incredible transport connections, now: it has the Tube AND the DLR AND now the Liz Line (offering a cheap direct 45 minute trip to LHR central). It has City Airport on its doorstep, and the Thames. It has 100,000 workers, and multiple hotels, restaurants, bars, the works

    Has it been shaken by Covid? Yes. But much less than, say, many downtowns in America

    If Canary Wharf is "doomed" then you might as well say London itself is "doomed". Some banks may move out due to WFH but at a certain price point moving back into Canary Wharf (with its amazing views, transport, the like) will become desirable for, say, tech companies or media or whatever

    Pure clickbait. Ignore
    Unfortunately, like the rest of the UK, it’s no longer part of Europe. Another brexit dividend.
    I was unaware that Brexit had physically moved us into the western Hemisphere and made us part of the Americas

    There is actually a good article about this pernicious, mastubatory, Remainery pessimism in, yes, the FT

    "Britain must break out of its doom loop
    Brexit, Covid and terrible governments have left their scars but our national despondency is becoming a trap"

    https://www.ft.com/content/aa3bb4ab-d0e4-4af3-9730-b99373e57d37

    Yes, Britain has its probems. Yes, Brexit hasn't helped in many cases. But is Britain actually spiralling into terminal decay? Get a grip. Until a few days ago you might have pointed at France, and said, Look, they are doing much better

    Today? - that sounds ridiculous. Ditto everywhere else

    All countries are facing headwinds. We can cope with ours. We are over-thinking ourselves into self-destructive despair. As the writer says in that piece, it takes an American to finally snap "FFS, I live in London, it's still one of the greatest cities in the world, stop whining"

    The idea Canary Wharf (and London) is doomed and is going to become some sort of ghost town is as absurd as the most facile Leaver optimism in early 2016
    Canary Wharf might actually be doomed, though. It is the nearest thing to the deserted Central Business Districts that you wandered around in the US.
    I don't believe the CBDs in most American cities are doomed no more than I believe Canary Wharf is doomed

    They will have to adapt, they will become cheaper, people will then realise they have incredible locations, young people, artists, students, start ups, will move in: this is what happened in London in places like Camden, Borough, Shoreditch, Hackney, Wapping (repeat across multiple similar urban zones across the world)

    The actual full on Detroit Experience - where a city terminally implodes and never recovers- is (thankfully) quite rare. People like cities and city centres

    Downtown Denver will recover. Canary Wharf (which is architecturally notably similar - a mix of Victoriana and towers) will recover. But they will evolve

    And Canary Wharf does not have guns or fentanyl

  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,761
    Carnyx said:

    geoffw said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I hope this isn't true.

    "HSBC departure spells doom for isolated experiment of Canary Wharf
    A moated, gated, privatised space divided from the rest of London may have had its day
    EDWIN HEATHCOTE"

    https://www.ft.com/content/40ff10b9-6e8e-4df6-8753-0e3af571b794

    Remainery pessimistic FT bollocks. Crucially, Canary Wharf has incredible transport connections, now: it has the Tube AND the DLR AND now the Liz Line (offering a cheap direct 45 minute trip to LHR central). It has City Airport on its doorstep, and the Thames. It has 100,000 workers, and multiple hotels, restaurants, bars, the works

    Has it been shaken by Covid? Yes. But much less than, say, many downtowns in America

    If Canary Wharf is "doomed" then you might as well say London itself is "doomed". Some banks may move out due to WFH but at a certain price point moving back into Canary Wharf (with its amazing views, transport, the like) will become desirable for, say, tech companies or media or whatever

    Pure clickbait. Ignore
    Unfortunately, like the rest of the UK, it’s no longer part of Europe. Another brexit dividend.
    I was unaware that Brexit had physically moved us into the western Hemisphere and made us part of the Americas

    There is actually a good article about this pernicious, mastubatory, Remainery pessimism in, yes, the FT

    "Britain must break out of its doom loop
    Brexit, Covid and terrible governments have left their scars but our national despondency is becoming a trap"

    https://www.ft.com/content/aa3bb4ab-d0e4-4af3-9730-b99373e57d37

    Yes, Britain has its probems. Yes, Brexit hasn't helped in many cases. But is Britain actually spiralling into terminal decay? Get a grip. Until a few days ago you might have pointed at France, and said, Look, they are doing much better

    Today? - that sounds ridiculous. Ditto everywhere else

    All countries are facing headwinds. We can cope with ours. We are over-thinking ourselves into self-destructive despair. As the writer says in that piece, it takes an American to finally snap "FFS, I live in London, it's still one of the greatest cities in the world, stop whining"

    The idea Canary Wharf (and London) is doomed and is going to become some sort of ghost town is as absurd as the most facile Leaver optimism in early 2016
    As a pedant, it is my duty to point out that the vast majority of the UK always was in the Western Hemisphere.
    Where does the Western Hemisphere begin?

    The transit circle at Greenwich.

    https://www.rmg.co.uk/stories/topics/airys-transit-circle-dawn-universal-day
    Which is east of Hampstead. And Canary Wharf.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,528
    Carnyx said:

    geoffw said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I hope this isn't true.

    "HSBC departure spells doom for isolated experiment of Canary Wharf
    A moated, gated, privatised space divided from the rest of London may have had its day
    EDWIN HEATHCOTE"

    https://www.ft.com/content/40ff10b9-6e8e-4df6-8753-0e3af571b794

    Remainery pessimistic FT bollocks. Crucially, Canary Wharf has incredible transport connections, now: it has the Tube AND the DLR AND now the Liz Line (offering a cheap direct 45 minute trip to LHR central). It has City Airport on its doorstep, and the Thames. It has 100,000 workers, and multiple hotels, restaurants, bars, the works

    Has it been shaken by Covid? Yes. But much less than, say, many downtowns in America

    If Canary Wharf is "doomed" then you might as well say London itself is "doomed". Some banks may move out due to WFH but at a certain price point moving back into Canary Wharf (with its amazing views, transport, the like) will become desirable for, say, tech companies or media or whatever

    Pure clickbait. Ignore
    Unfortunately, like the rest of the UK, it’s no longer part of Europe. Another brexit dividend.
    I was unaware that Brexit had physically moved us into the western Hemisphere and made us part of the Americas

    There is actually a good article about this pernicious, mastubatory, Remainery pessimism in, yes, the FT

    "Britain must break out of its doom loop
    Brexit, Covid and terrible governments have left their scars but our national despondency is becoming a trap"

    https://www.ft.com/content/aa3bb4ab-d0e4-4af3-9730-b99373e57d37

    Yes, Britain has its probems. Yes, Brexit hasn't helped in many cases. But is Britain actually spiralling into terminal decay? Get a grip. Until a few days ago you might have pointed at France, and said, Look, they are doing much better

    Today? - that sounds ridiculous. Ditto everywhere else

    All countries are facing headwinds. We can cope with ours. We are over-thinking ourselves into self-destructive despair. As the writer says in that piece, it takes an American to finally snap "FFS, I live in London, it's still one of the greatest cities in the world, stop whining"

    The idea Canary Wharf (and London) is doomed and is going to become some sort of ghost town is as absurd as the most facile Leaver optimism in early 2016
    As a pedant, it is my duty to point out that the vast majority of the UK always was in the Western Hemisphere.
    Where does the Western Hemisphere begin?

    The transit circle at Greenwich.

    https://www.rmg.co.uk/stories/topics/airys-transit-circle-dawn-universal-day
    So Paris, Brussels and Berlin are in the Eastern Hemisphere. Just as I thought

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,003

    HYUFD said:

    Leading Tories call for a referendum on the UK's membership of the ECHR to be in the party's next manifesto
    https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/tories-new-uk-referendum-migrants-rwanda-plan-appeal-court-2447225

    The only "leading Tories" (sic) mentioned in the article is Jonathan Gullis, the MP for Stoke North. It's fair to say that not even you could regard Mr Gullis as a leading thinker, even in the current iteration of the Tory Party. He makes Lee Anderson look thoughtful. To put it as politely as I can, Gullis is as thick as pigshit and unpleasant to boot.
    Hate to say it, but what is it with teachers who become Conservative MPs? Not just Gullis, but Lia Nici as well. (And not an MP, but just as politically prominent, Fr Calvin Robinson as well.)
    I expect they are the ones who like shouting at an unruly class and sending them to detention
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 16,544
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I hope this isn't true.

    "HSBC departure spells doom for isolated experiment of Canary Wharf
    A moated, gated, privatised space divided from the rest of London may have had its day
    EDWIN HEATHCOTE"

    https://www.ft.com/content/40ff10b9-6e8e-4df6-8753-0e3af571b794

    Remainery pessimistic FT bollocks. Crucially, Canary Wharf has incredible transport connections, now: it has the Tube AND the DLR AND now the Liz Line (offering a cheap direct 45 minute trip to LHR central). It has City Airport on its doorstep, and the Thames. It has 100,000 workers, and multiple hotels, restaurants, bars, the works

    Has it been shaken by Covid? Yes. But much less than, say, many downtowns in America

    If Canary Wharf is "doomed" then you might as well say London itself is "doomed". Some banks may move out due to WFH but at a certain price point moving back into Canary Wharf (with its amazing views, transport, the like) will become desirable for, say, tech companies or media or whatever

    Pure clickbait. Ignore
    Unfortunately, like the rest of the UK, it’s no longer part of Europe. Another brexit dividend.
    I was unaware that Brexit had physically moved us into the western Hemisphere and made us part of the Americas

    There is actually a good article about this pernicious, mastubatory, Remainery pessimism in, yes, the FT

    "Britain must break out of its doom loop
    Brexit, Covid and terrible governments have left their scars but our national despondency is becoming a trap"

    https://www.ft.com/content/aa3bb4ab-d0e4-4af3-9730-b99373e57d37

    Yes, Britain has its probems. Yes, Brexit hasn't helped in many cases. But is Britain actually spiralling into terminal decay? Get a grip. Until a few days ago you might have pointed at France, and said, Look, they are doing much better

    Today? - that sounds ridiculous. Ditto everywhere else

    All countries are facing headwinds. We can cope with ours. We are over-thinking ourselves into self-destructive despair. As the writer says in that piece, it takes an American to finally snap "FFS, I live in London, it's still one of the greatest cities in the world, stop whining"

    The idea Canary Wharf (and London) is doomed and is going to become some sort of ghost town is as absurd as the most facile Leaver optimism in early 2016
    Canary Wharf might actually be doomed, though. It is the nearest thing to the deserted Central Business Districts that you wandered around in the US.
    How easy/hard would it be to repurpose the area? Easyish to imagine the city reconsolidating in the actual city, but presumably all that space and infrastructure would be good for something at the right price.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,271
    edited July 2023

    HYUFD said:

    Leading Tories call for a referendum on the UK's membership of the ECHR to be in the party's next manifesto
    https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/tories-new-uk-referendum-migrants-rwanda-plan-appeal-court-2447225

    The only "leading Tories" (sic) mentioned in the article is Jonathan Gullis, the MP for Stoke North. It's fair to say that not even you could regard Mr Gullis as a leading thinker, even in the current iteration of the Tory Party. He makes Lee Anderson look thoughtful. To put it as politely as I can, Gullis is as thick as pigshit and unpleasant to boot.
    Hate to say it, but what is it with teachers who become Conservative MPs? Not just Gullis, but Lia Nici as well. (And not an MP, but just as politically prominent, Fr Calvin Robinson as well.)
    Quite. Though in a rare moment of self-awareness, according to Wiki:
    Upon being elected to Parliament Gullis left work at Fairfax School, and he described the pupils he was responsible for as head of year as "probably happy to see me go".
    Given he worked in at least four schools in a seven-year career, this may have been a theme with pupils and staff.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,761
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leading Tories call for a referendum on the UK's membership of the ECHR to be in the party's next manifesto
    https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/tories-new-uk-referendum-migrants-rwanda-plan-appeal-court-2447225

    The only "leading Tories" (sic) mentioned in the article is Jonathan Gullis, the MP for Stoke North. It's fair to say that not even you could regard Mr Gullis as a leading thinker, even in the current iteration of the Tory Party. He makes Lee Anderson look thoughtful. To put it as politely as I can, Gullis is as thick as pigshit and unpleasant to boot.
    Hate to say it, but what is it with teachers who become Conservative MPs? Not just Gullis, but Lia Nici as well. (And not an MP, but just as politically prominent, Fr Calvin Robinson as well.)
    I expect they are the ones who like shouting at an unruly class and sending them to detention
    Sounds like they would be ideal candidates for Speaker!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 50,605

    HYUFD said:

    Leading Tories call for a referendum on the UK's membership of the ECHR to be in the party's next manifesto
    https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/tories-new-uk-referendum-migrants-rwanda-plan-appeal-court-2447225

    Why not hold it on the same day as the next election? There’s a good chance you’d end up giving the implementation of it to Starmer.
    Labour just put in their manifesto they won't leave the EHRC regardless.
    Unless they were confident that the Labour vote would exceed the Leave vote, that might cause them more trouble than it solved.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,240

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I hope this isn't true.

    "HSBC departure spells doom for isolated experiment of Canary Wharf
    A moated, gated, privatised space divided from the rest of London may have had its day
    EDWIN HEATHCOTE"

    https://www.ft.com/content/40ff10b9-6e8e-4df6-8753-0e3af571b794

    Remainery pessimistic FT bollocks. Crucially, Canary Wharf has incredible transport connections, now: it has the Tube AND the DLR AND now the Liz Line (offering a cheap direct 45 minute trip to LHR central). It has City Airport on its doorstep, and the Thames. It has 100,000 workers, and multiple hotels, restaurants, bars, the works

    Has it been shaken by Covid? Yes. But much less than, say, many downtowns in America

    If Canary Wharf is "doomed" then you might as well say London itself is "doomed". Some banks may move out due to WFH but at a certain price point moving back into Canary Wharf (with its amazing views, transport, the like) will become desirable for, say, tech companies or media or whatever

    Pure clickbait. Ignore
    Unfortunately, like the rest of the UK, it’s no longer part of Europe. Another brexit dividend.
    I was unaware that Brexit had physically moved us into the western Hemisphere and made us part of the Americas

    There is actually a good article about this pernicious, mastubatory, Remainery pessimism in, yes, the FT

    "Britain must break out of its doom loop
    Brexit, Covid and terrible governments have left their scars but our national despondency is becoming a trap"

    https://www.ft.com/content/aa3bb4ab-d0e4-4af3-9730-b99373e57d37

    Yes, Britain has its probems. Yes, Brexit hasn't helped in many cases. But is Britain actually spiralling into terminal decay? Get a grip. Until a few days ago you might have pointed at France, and said, Look, they are doing much better

    Today? - that sounds ridiculous. Ditto everywhere else

    All countries are facing headwinds. We can cope with ours. We are over-thinking ourselves into self-destructive despair. As the writer says in that piece, it takes an American to finally snap "FFS, I live in London, it's still one of the greatest cities in the world, stop whining"

    The idea Canary Wharf (and London) is doomed and is going to become some sort of ghost town is as absurd as the most facile Leaver optimism in early 2016
    Canary Wharf might actually be doomed, though. It is the nearest thing to the deserted Central Business Districts that you wandered around in the US.
    How easy/hard would it be to repurpose the area? Easyish to imagine the city reconsolidating in the actual city, but presumably all that space and infrastructure would be good for something at the right price.
    Yes, it's all about pricing

    Canary Wharf is a highly desirable location, It might not be as desirable as it was - but it is still a brilliantly linked part of a world city (that is still in great demand). I can also remember when it was "doomed" about eight years after they built the first towers. Half of it was empty. It genuinely didn't look good

    Then it boomed, and quintupled in size
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,761

    HYUFD said:

    Leading Tories call for a referendum on the UK's membership of the ECHR to be in the party's next manifesto
    https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/tories-new-uk-referendum-migrants-rwanda-plan-appeal-court-2447225

    The only "leading Tories" (sic) mentioned in the article is Jonathan Gullis, the MP for Stoke North. It's fair to say that not even you could regard Mr Gullis as a leading thinker, even in the current iteration of the Tory Party. He makes Lee Anderson look thoughtful. To put it as politely as I can, Gullis is as thick as pigshit and unpleasant to boot.
    Hate to say it, but what is it with teachers who become Conservative MPs? Not just Gullis, but Lia Nici as well. (And not an MP, but just as politically prominent, Fr Calvin Robinson as well.)
    Quite. Though in a rare moment of self-awareness, according to Wiki:
    Upon being elected to Parliament Gullis left work at Fairfax School, and he described the pupils he was responsible for as head of year as "probably happy to see me go".
    Given he worked in at least four schools in a seven-year career, this may have been a theme with pupils and staff.
    Next year he will be able to use that quote about his constituents.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,528
    Ne'er the twain shall meet
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,470
    Another by-election incoming?
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