It says no clear evidence. AOEINEOA. What clear evidence could there be anyway? CCTV of avirus sneaking out of the back door?
In my lifetime there have been two lab leaks in the UK that I am aware of, Smallpox and Foot and Mouth. Both were provable lab leaks. So to say there can't be any clear evidence of a lab leak is obviously not correct.
It may well be a lab leak and there may not be any evidence that can be found, but that doesn't mean it is a lab leak. It may be, it may not be.
However unlike @leon I don't jump to conclusions. If leon didn't come out with so much tosh all the time (Do we all remember the mass alien ships over Ukraine?) we might take him more seriously. I can think of two pieces of evidence he provided for absolute proof it came from a lab that were completely dismantled here (one was from Fox news ffs).
Which is exactly the point: Likely but not proven is probably as good as we are going to get with an outbreak in China. They don't do openness there. So the claim of "no clear evidence" is still susceptible to the response: What clear evidence would you expect, given 1. China and 2. the catastrophic consequences of this leak?
I would want to know why a lab leak is likely, beyond that someone had a notion. There is epidemiological evidence for the epidemic starting in a market, which is also how the previous SARS is known to have started.
That evidence is basically "the first cases were near the wet market." Given the geography, that also implies "the first cases were near the lab."
Let's also look at the terminology here. "Wet market" means no more than, a collection of butchers and fishmongers and whatever selling freshly slaughtered, unpackaged meet. Most English high streets would qualify. And anyway you can hardly base an argument on "wet markets are notorious breeding grounds for novel viruses" when the alternative is a lab expressly designed at enormous expense to be a breeding ground for novel viruses.
A large proportion of the first cases were actually in the wet market. The WIV isn't
It says no clear evidence. AOEINEOA. What clear evidence could there be anyway? CCTV of avirus sneaking out of the back door?
In my lifetime there have been two lab leaks in the UK that I am aware of, Smallpox and Foot and Mouth. Both were provable lab leaks. So to say there can't be any clear evidence of a lab leak is obviously not correct.
It may well be a lab leak and there may not be any evidence that can be found, but that doesn't mean it is a lab leak. It may be, it may not be.
However unlike @leon I don't jump to conclusions. If leon didn't come out with so much tosh all the time (Do we all remember the mass alien ships over Ukraine?) we might take him more seriously. I can think of two pieces of evidence he provided for absolute proof it came from a lab that were completely dismantled here (one was from Fox news ffs).
Which is exactly the point: Likely but not proven is probably as good as we are going to get with an outbreak in China. They don't do openness there. So the claim of "no clear evidence" is still susceptible to the response: What clear evidence would you expect, given 1. China and 2. the catastrophic consequences of this leak?
I would want to know why a lab leak is likely, beyond that someone had a notion. There is epidemiological evidence for the epidemic starting in a market, which is also how the previous SARS is known to have started.
That evidence is basically "the first cases were near the wet market." Given the geography, that also implies "the first cases were near the lab."
Let's also look at the terminology here. "Wet market" means no more than, a collection of butchers and fishmongers and whatever selling freshly slaughtered, unpackaged meet. Most English high streets would qualify. And anyway you can hardly base an argument on "wet markets are notorious breeding grounds for novel viruses" when the alternative is a lab expressly designed at enormous expense to be a breeding ground for novel viruses.
Most English high streets do not sell live, wild animals for human consumption. You are taking one common definition of "wet market" and misapplying it to Wuhan. These particular wet markets should have been shut down years ago by China.
This is the key point. Too many of these epidemics are preventable and originate in China. Unless China gets serious about its food security, we're just waiting for the next one.
This is what we should be banging on about with China.
Lol, no. They’ve gone from “definitely wet market” to “we can’t decide, no definitive proof either way, let’s move on quickly”. As I predicted
That is all in your head. Nobody has dismissed the lab leak (here at least). I hope to god you are never on a jury. The first bit of evidence in any direction and you are full 100% decided on everything.
Er, yes they have dismissed it. @kinabalu did yesterday
Are you defining “dismiss” as saying “definitely didn’t happen” or something less?
I believe he said “so lab leak is debunked”. Which is quite emphatic wording
You twit. He was winding you up. As you well know @kinabalu is a sensible chap and just pulling your chain as has @TheScreamingEagles several times over the last few days. You are a bright lad and you know full well this is what they were doing.
Interestingly, Rubio says that several of the people who have come forward to his commitee, as vice-chairman of the intelligence one, with what many would assume to be fantastical information , as well as high-level current insiders, are public figures.
He must mean well-known American politicians. What a story to watch, to put it mildly.
It says no clear evidence. AOEINEOA. What clear evidence could there be anyway? CCTV of avirus sneaking out of the back door?
In my lifetime there have been two lab leaks in the UK that I am aware of, Smallpox and Foot and Mouth. Both were provable lab leaks. So to say there can't be any clear evidence of a lab leak is obviously not correct.
It may well be a lab leak and there may not be any evidence that can be found, but that doesn't mean it is a lab leak. It may be, it may not be.
However unlike @leon I don't jump to conclusions. If leon didn't come out with so much tosh all the time (Do we all remember the mass alien ships over Ukraine?) we might take him more seriously. I can think of two pieces of evidence he provided for absolute proof it came from a lab that were completely dismantled here (one was from Fox news ffs).
Which is exactly the point: Likely but not proven is probably as good as we are going to get with an outbreak in China. They don't do openness there. So the claim of "no clear evidence" is still susceptible to the response: What clear evidence would you expect, given 1. China and 2. the catastrophic consequences of this leak?
I would want to know why a lab leak is likely, beyond that someone had a notion. There is epidemiological evidence for the epidemic starting in a market, which is also how the previous SARS is known to have started.
That evidence is basically "the first cases were near the wet market." Given the geography, that also implies "the first cases were near the lab."
Let's also look at the terminology here. "Wet market" means no more than, a collection of butchers and fishmongers and whatever selling freshly slaughtered, unpackaged meet. Most English high streets would qualify. And anyway you can hardly base an argument on "wet markets are notorious breeding grounds for novel viruses" when the alternative is a lab expressly designed at enormous expense to be a breeding ground for novel viruses.
And it came from a bat. And they don’t sell bats at Wuhan market, nor is there a culture of eating them. And the guilty bat species don’t live within 1000km of Wuhan
The nearest likely bat vectors are in Yunnan. How on earth would a bat get from Yunnan to Wuhan?
Well, there’s always the Wuhan Institute of Virology, which regularly went down to Yunnan to collect bats, and bring them back to Wuhan
Jesus felching Christ, do we really have to go through all this AGAIN??
Perhaps you go through your greatest hits.
How Liz Truss would surprise on the upside or how Putin was going to use nukes last autumn.
It says no clear evidence. AOEINEOA. What clear evidence could there be anyway? CCTV of avirus sneaking out of the back door?
In my lifetime there have been two lab leaks in the UK that I am aware of, Smallpox and Foot and Mouth. Both were provable lab leaks. So to say there can't be any clear evidence of a lab leak is obviously not correct.
It may well be a lab leak and there may not be any evidence that can be found, but that doesn't mean it is a lab leak. It may be, it may not be.
However unlike @leon I don't jump to conclusions. If leon didn't come out with so much tosh all the time (Do we all remember the mass alien ships over Ukraine?) we might take him more seriously. I can think of two pieces of evidence he provided for absolute proof it came from a lab that were completely dismantled here (one was from Fox news ffs).
Which is exactly the point: Likely but not proven is probably as good as we are going to get with an outbreak in China. They don't do openness there. So the claim of "no clear evidence" is still susceptible to the response: What clear evidence would you expect, given 1. China and 2. the catastrophic consequences of this leak?
I would want to know why a lab leak is likely, beyond that someone had a notion. There is epidemiological evidence for the epidemic starting in a market, which is also how the previous SARS is known to have started.
That evidence is basically "the first cases were near the wet market." Given the geography, that also implies "the first cases were near the lab."
Let's also look at the terminology here. "Wet market" means no more than, a collection of butchers and fishmongers and whatever selling freshly slaughtered, unpackaged meet. Most English high streets would qualify. And anyway you can hardly base an argument on "wet markets are notorious breeding grounds for novel viruses" when the alternative is a lab expressly designed at enormous expense to be a breeding ground for novel viruses.
A large proportion of the known first cases were actually in the wet market. The WIV isn't near the market. Wuhan is a tri-city metropolis. The lab and the market are in different historical cities.
"Actually in the wet market" is meaningless. Nobody spends 24 hours a day there and it's likely that people who worked at the lab were customers of the market so could have spread the virus to others that way.
It says no clear evidence. AOEINEOA. What clear evidence could there be anyway? CCTV of avirus sneaking out of the back door?
In my lifetime there have been two lab leaks in the UK that I am aware of, Smallpox and Foot and Mouth. Both were provable lab leaks. So to say there can't be any clear evidence of a lab leak is obviously not correct.
It may well be a lab leak and there may not be any evidence that can be found, but that doesn't mean it is a lab leak. It may be, it may not be.
However unlike @leon I don't jump to conclusions. If leon didn't come out with so much tosh all the time (Do we all remember the mass alien ships over Ukraine?) we might take him more seriously. I can think of two pieces of evidence he provided for absolute proof it came from a lab that were completely dismantled here (one was from Fox news ffs).
Which is exactly the point: Likely but not proven is probably as good as we are going to get with an outbreak in China. They don't do openness there. So the claim of "no clear evidence" is still susceptible to the response: What clear evidence would you expect, given 1. China and 2. the catastrophic consequences of this leak?
I would want to know why a lab leak is likely, beyond that someone had a notion. There is epidemiological evidence for the epidemic starting in a market, which is also how the previous SARS is known to have started.
That evidence is basically "the first cases were near the wet market." Given the geography, that also implies "the first cases were near the lab."
Let's also look at the terminology here. "Wet market" means no more than, a collection of butchers and fishmongers and whatever selling freshly slaughtered, unpackaged meet. Most English high streets would qualify. And anyway you can hardly base an argument on "wet markets are notorious breeding grounds for novel viruses" when the alternative is a lab expressly designed at enormous expense to be a breeding ground for novel viruses.
Most English high streets do not sell live, wild animals for human consumption. You are taking one common definition of "wet market" and misapplying it to Wuhan. These particular wet markets should have been shut down years ago by China.
It says no clear evidence. AOEINEOA. What clear evidence could there be anyway? CCTV of avirus sneaking out of the back door?
In my lifetime there have been two lab leaks in the UK that I am aware of, Smallpox and Foot and Mouth. Both were provable lab leaks. So to say there can't be any clear evidence of a lab leak is obviously not correct.
It may well be a lab leak and there may not be any evidence that can be found, but that doesn't mean it is a lab leak. It may be, it may not be.
However unlike @leon I don't jump to conclusions. If leon didn't come out with so much tosh all the time (Do we all remember the mass alien ships over Ukraine?) we might take him more seriously. I can think of two pieces of evidence he provided for absolute proof it came from a lab that were completely dismantled here (one was from Fox news ffs).
Which is exactly the point: Likely but not proven is probably as good as we are going to get with an outbreak in China. They don't do openness there. So the claim of "no clear evidence" is still susceptible to the response: What clear evidence would you expect, given 1. China and 2. the catastrophic consequences of this leak?
I would want to know why a lab leak is likely, beyond that someone had a notion. There is epidemiological evidence for the epidemic starting in a market, which is also how the previous SARS is known to have started.
Aside from anything else “the nightmare of circumstantial evidence” - as was explicitly stated in the Fauci/Farrar emails at the beginning of the pandemic
Problem is I then have to Google the claim to see if it really is evidence. This is the full quote from Ian Lipkin:
It does not eliminate the possibility of inadvertent release following adaptation through selection in culture at the institute in Wuhan. Given the scale of the bat CoV research pursued there and the site of emergence of the first human cases we have a nightmare of circumstantial evidence to assess.
So it seems not. The recent DNI report states
Prior to the pandemic, we assess WIV scientists conducted extensive research on coronaviruses, which included animal sampling and genetic analysis. We continue to have no indication that the WIV’s pre-pandemic research holdings included SARSCoV-2 or a close progenitor, nor any direct evidence that a specific research-related incident occurred involving WIV personnel before the pandemic that could have caused the COVID pandemic.
So Covid 19 doesn't match a virus the lab was known to be working on. We have to have some other reason to suspect a lab leak.
"a virus the lab was known to be working on" is rather the point. Again, this is mere absence of evidence. Evidence of absence would require a complete, audited list from the lab of everything it was up to.
It says no clear evidence. AOEINEOA. What clear evidence could there be anyway? CCTV of avirus sneaking out of the back door?
In my lifetime there have been two lab leaks in the UK that I am aware of, Smallpox and Foot and Mouth. Both were provable lab leaks. So to say there can't be any clear evidence of a lab leak is obviously not correct.
It may well be a lab leak and there may not be any evidence that can be found, but that doesn't mean it is a lab leak. It may be, it may not be.
However unlike @leon I don't jump to conclusions. If leon didn't come out with so much tosh all the time (Do we all remember the mass alien ships over Ukraine?) we might take him more seriously. I can think of two pieces of evidence he provided for absolute proof it came from a lab that were completely dismantled here (one was from Fox news ffs).
Which is exactly the point: Likely but not proven is probably as good as we are going to get with an outbreak in China. They don't do openness there. So the claim of "no clear evidence" is still susceptible to the response: What clear evidence would you expect, given 1. China and 2. the catastrophic consequences of this leak?
I would want to know why a lab leak is likely, beyond that someone had a notion. There is epidemiological evidence for the epidemic starting in a market, which is also how the previous SARS is known to have started.
That evidence is basically "the first cases were near the wet market." Given the geography, that also implies "the first cases were near the lab."
Let's also look at the terminology here. "Wet market" means no more than, a collection of butchers and fishmongers and whatever selling freshly slaughtered, unpackaged meet. Most English high streets would qualify. And anyway you can hardly base an argument on "wet markets are notorious breeding grounds for novel viruses" when the alternative is a lab expressly designed at enormous expense to be a breeding ground for novel viruses.
Most English high streets do not sell live, wild animals for human consumption. You are taking one common definition of "wet market" and misapplying it to Wuhan. These particular wet markets should have been shut down years ago by China.
Live animals are, these days, quite rare in Chinese markets. Fish and eels maybe. Crustacea. Birds, reptiles and mammals much less so - they still exist but are frowned upon - after the scandals over that horrible market in Guangdong which sold owls and cats and monkeys alive. I went there. Ugh
I distinctly remember seeing one shop with what seemed like hundreds of either terrapins or turtles when I was backpacking through Guangzhou about twenty years ago.
Yes, that’s probably in or around the same market. It was notorious even in China, which is saying something
Just catching up on this thread, I was intrigued to see how devout Tories would explain the graph in the header.
I assume the WTF button had to be added to allow appropriate responses to HYUFD's assertion that the graph showed the Tories and and Labour managed waiting lists equally well. A WTAF?!? button would have been more appropriate imo.
It says no clear evidence. AOEINEOA. What clear evidence could there be anyway? CCTV of avirus sneaking out of the back door?
In my lifetime there have been two lab leaks in the UK that I am aware of, Smallpox and Foot and Mouth. Both were provable lab leaks. So to say there can't be any clear evidence of a lab leak is obviously not correct.
It may well be a lab leak and there may not be any evidence that can be found, but that doesn't mean it is a lab leak. It may be, it may not be.
However unlike @leon I don't jump to conclusions. If leon didn't come out with so much tosh all the time (Do we all remember the mass alien ships over Ukraine?) we might take him more seriously. I can think of two pieces of evidence he provided for absolute proof it came from a lab that were completely dismantled here (one was from Fox news ffs).
Which is exactly the point: Likely but not proven is probably as good as we are going to get with an outbreak in China. They don't do openness there. So the claim of "no clear evidence" is still susceptible to the response: What clear evidence would you expect, given 1. China and 2. the catastrophic consequences of this leak?
I would want to know why a lab leak is likely, beyond that someone had a notion. There is epidemiological evidence for the epidemic starting in a market, which is also how the previous SARS is known to have started.
Aside from anything else “the nightmare of circumstantial evidence” - as was explicitly stated in the Fauci/Farrar emails at the beginning of the pandemic
Problem is I then have to Google the claim to see if it really is evidence. This is the full quote from Ian Lipkin:
It does not eliminate the possibility of inadvertent release following adaptation through selection in culture at the institute in Wuhan. Given the scale of the bat CoV research pursued there and the site of emergence of the first human cases we have a nightmare of circumstantial evidence to assess.
So it seems not. The recent DNI report states
Prior to the pandemic, we assess WIV scientists conducted extensive research on coronaviruses, which included animal sampling and genetic analysis. We continue to have no indication that the WIV’s pre-pandemic research holdings included SARSCoV-2 or a close progenitor, nor any direct evidence that a specific research-related incident occurred involving WIV personnel before the pandemic that could have caused the COVID pandemic.
So Covid 19 doesn't match a virus the lab was known to be working on. We have to have some other reason to suspect a lab leak.
"a virus the lab was known to be working on" is rather the point. Again, this is mere absence of evidence. Evidence of absence would require a complete, audited list from the lab of everything it was up to.
Given that there is significant evidence China executed or otherwise silenced - forever - early covid whistleblowers, the idea they wouldn’t destroy evidence at the lab is fanciful. Indeed the opposite is true. They surely DID destroy evidence
Just catching up on this thread, I was intrigued to see how devout Tories would explain the graph in the header.
I assume the WTF button had to be added to allow appropriate responses to HYUFD's assertion that the graph showed the Tories and and Labour managed waiting lists equally well. A WTAF?!? button would have been more appropriate imo.
Has the WTF button added in order to react to the England lineup for the 2nd Ashes Test?
England certainly don't bat deep, so have to scratch that one off the hopeium bingo card
On topic. Have any pb-ers tried Ozempic or the like?
I’m not obese but I just can’t shift the ten-twelve pounds I put on during the pandemic - even now. If I could magic it away with a needle or a pill, I would
Please can I impose on the good nature of everyone here and ask if anyone has an answer to a technical Local Government Finance question?
Does anyone know why local authorities want their Council Tax paid in 10 equal payments, rather than once a month for a year? I have been paying for my Council Tax by standing order (for 12 months) for the last 20 years or so, but my Council is now threatening me with a Magistrates Court summons if I don't pay up the full amount by tomorrow or set up a direct debit. What is their authority for doing this? Is it legislation, or their own local by-law?
I have a perfectly good payments record (I have lived in the same house for over 30 years) and I cannot work out why they are having a hissy fit now.
I know that back in the 1970s, in the days of local Rates, the authorities needed two months to prepare their annual accounts, but that was in an age before computers, on-line banking and Excel spreadsheets. Surely their systems can cope with me paying in 12 equal instalments rather than 10? FWIW, I want to pay in monthly instalments because that's how I get paid, and it makes my budgeting easier.
Any help gratefully received.
A few years ago, I didn't receive the council tax bill and made no payment at all for four months. When we worked out what had happened, they just told me they needed payment in full by the end of the year. So unless there has been a change in the law, which is of course possible, they are talking bollocks.
I would demand they show their reasoning.
Magistrates court is a pretty empty threat at the moment I would have thought. It would take months to get anywhere and by then you'll have paid most of it anyway.
Pay in 10 instalments because fighting them to pay in 12 lots is not worth the candle (unless OP is skint). That 10 is standard across the country suggests there might be a reason for it, but that's not important.
IIRC years back, it was changed so that you can pay 12 monthly instalments, rather than 10. Seem to recall it was 2014?
Sounds like @AugustusCarp2 is having an encounter with a clipboardista. Who is making up rules - probably got a target they've invented to get everyone on a direct debit.
I pay via direct debit in 12 installments. It's a slightly better time value of money in today's inflationary world compared to 10. Everyone should try and pay monthly I think !
It says no clear evidence. AOEINEOA. What clear evidence could there be anyway? CCTV of avirus sneaking out of the back door?
In my lifetime there have been two lab leaks in the UK that I am aware of, Smallpox and Foot and Mouth. Both were provable lab leaks. So to say there can't be any clear evidence of a lab leak is obviously not correct.
It may well be a lab leak and there may not be any evidence that can be found, but that doesn't mean it is a lab leak. It may be, it may not be.
However unlike @leon I don't jump to conclusions. If leon didn't come out with so much tosh all the time (Do we all remember the mass alien ships over Ukraine?) we might take him more seriously. I can think of two pieces of evidence he provided for absolute proof it came from a lab that were completely dismantled here (one was from Fox news ffs).
Which is exactly the point: Likely but not proven is probably as good as we are going to get with an outbreak in China. They don't do openness there. So the claim of "no clear evidence" is still susceptible to the response: What clear evidence would you expect, given 1. China and 2. the catastrophic consequences of this leak?
I would want to know why a lab leak is likely, beyond that someone had a notion. There is epidemiological evidence for the epidemic starting in a market, which is also how the previous SARS is known to have started.
Aside from anything else “the nightmare of circumstantial evidence” - as was explicitly stated in the Fauci/Farrar emails at the beginning of the pandemic
Problem is I then have to Google the claim to see if it really is evidence. This is the full quote from Ian Lipkin:
It does not eliminate the possibility of inadvertent release following adaptation through selection in culture at the institute in Wuhan. Given the scale of the bat CoV research pursued there and the site of emergence of the first human cases we have a nightmare of circumstantial evidence to assess.
So it seems not. The recent DNI report states
Prior to the pandemic, we assess WIV scientists conducted extensive research on coronaviruses, which included animal sampling and genetic analysis. We continue to have no indication that the WIV’s pre-pandemic research holdings included SARSCoV-2 or a close progenitor, nor any direct evidence that a specific research-related incident occurred involving WIV personnel before the pandemic that could have caused the COVID pandemic.
So Covid 19 doesn't match a virus the lab was known to be working on. We have to have some other reason to suspect a lab leak.
"a virus the lab was known to be working on" is rather the point. Again, this is mere absence of evidence. Evidence of absence would require a complete, audited list from the lab of everything it was up to.
Given that there is significant evidence China executed or otherwise silenced - forever - early covid whistleblowers, the idea they wouldn’t destroy evidence at the lab is fanciful. Indeed the opposite is true. They surely DID destroy evidence
Indeed, and they also destroyed evidence at the market. I don't think we've ever argued that China behaved responsibly or openly with regard to what happened.
It says no clear evidence. AOEINEOA. What clear evidence could there be anyway? CCTV of avirus sneaking out of the back door?
In my lifetime there have been two lab leaks in the UK that I am aware of, Smallpox and Foot and Mouth. Both were provable lab leaks. So to say there can't be any clear evidence of a lab leak is obviously not correct.
It may well be a lab leak and there may not be any evidence that can be found, but that doesn't mean it is a lab leak. It may be, it may not be.
However unlike @leon I don't jump to conclusions. If leon didn't come out with so much tosh all the time (Do we all remember the mass alien ships over Ukraine?) we might take him more seriously. I can think of two pieces of evidence he provided for absolute proof it came from a lab that were completely dismantled here (one was from Fox news ffs).
Which is exactly the point: Likely but not proven is probably as good as we are going to get with an outbreak in China. They don't do openness there. So the claim of "no clear evidence" is still susceptible to the response: What clear evidence would you expect, given 1. China and 2. the catastrophic consequences of this leak?
I would want to know why a lab leak is likely, beyond that someone had a notion. There is epidemiological evidence for the epidemic starting in a market, which is also how the previous SARS is known to have started.
That evidence is basically "the first cases were near the wet market." Given the geography, that also implies "the first cases were near the lab."
Let's also look at the terminology here. "Wet market" means no more than, a collection of butchers and fishmongers and whatever selling freshly slaughtered, unpackaged meet. Most English high streets would qualify. And anyway you can hardly base an argument on "wet markets are notorious breeding grounds for novel viruses" when the alternative is a lab expressly designed at enormous expense to be a breeding ground for novel viruses.
A large proportion of the known first cases were actually in the wet market. The WIV isn't near the market. Wuhan is a tri-city metropolis. The lab and the market are in different historical cities.
It says no clear evidence. AOEINEOA. What clear evidence could there be anyway? CCTV of avirus sneaking out of the back door?
In my lifetime there have been two lab leaks in the UK that I am aware of, Smallpox and Foot and Mouth. Both were provable lab leaks. So to say there can't be any clear evidence of a lab leak is obviously not correct.
It may well be a lab leak and there may not be any evidence that can be found, but that doesn't mean it is a lab leak. It may be, it may not be.
However unlike @leon I don't jump to conclusions. If leon didn't come out with so much tosh all the time (Do we all remember the mass alien ships over Ukraine?) we might take him more seriously. I can think of two pieces of evidence he provided for absolute proof it came from a lab that were completely dismantled here (one was from Fox news ffs).
Which is exactly the point: Likely but not proven is probably as good as we are going to get with an outbreak in China. They don't do openness there. So the claim of "no clear evidence" is still susceptible to the response: What clear evidence would you expect, given 1. China and 2. the catastrophic consequences of this leak?
I would want to know why a lab leak is likely, beyond that someone had a notion. There is epidemiological evidence for the epidemic starting in a market, which is also how the previous SARS is known to have started.
Aside from anything else “the nightmare of circumstantial evidence” - as was explicitly stated in the Fauci/Farrar emails at the beginning of the pandemic
Problem is I then have to Google the claim to see if it really is evidence. This is the full quote from Ian Lipkin:
It does not eliminate the possibility of inadvertent release following adaptation through selection in culture at the institute in Wuhan. Given the scale of the bat CoV research pursued there and the site of emergence of the first human cases we have a nightmare of circumstantial evidence to assess.
So it seems not. The recent DNI report states
Prior to the pandemic, we assess WIV scientists conducted extensive research on coronaviruses, which included animal sampling and genetic analysis. We continue to have no indication that the WIV’s pre-pandemic research holdings included SARSCoV-2 or a close progenitor, nor any direct evidence that a specific research-related incident occurred involving WIV personnel before the pandemic that could have caused the COVID pandemic.
So Covid 19 doesn't match a virus the lab was known to be working on. We have to have some other reason to suspect a lab leak.
"a virus the lab was known to be working on" is rather the point. Again, this is mere absence of evidence. Evidence of absence would require a complete, audited list from the lab of everything it was up to.
Given that there is significant evidence China executed or otherwise silenced - forever - early covid whistleblowers, the idea they wouldn’t destroy evidence at the lab is fanciful. Indeed the opposite is true. They surely DID destroy evidence
Indeed, and they also destroyed evidence at the market. I don't think we've ever argued that China behaved responsibly or openly with regard to what happened.
Indeed.
From what we know, I think we can say for certain that China behaved irresponsibly.
I think the balance of probabilities is that it probably came from the Lab.
I think the less likely, but still possible option, is that it came naturally to and from the market without any involvement of the Lab.
It says no clear evidence. AOEINEOA. What clear evidence could there be anyway? CCTV of avirus sneaking out of the back door?
In my lifetime there have been two lab leaks in the UK that I am aware of, Smallpox and Foot and Mouth. Both were provable lab leaks. So to say there can't be any clear evidence of a lab leak is obviously not correct.
It may well be a lab leak and there may not be any evidence that can be found, but that doesn't mean it is a lab leak. It may be, it may not be.
However unlike @leon I don't jump to conclusions. If leon didn't come out with so much tosh all the time (Do we all remember the mass alien ships over Ukraine?) we might take him more seriously. I can think of two pieces of evidence he provided for absolute proof it came from a lab that were completely dismantled here (one was from Fox news ffs).
Which is exactly the point: Likely but not proven is probably as good as we are going to get with an outbreak in China. They don't do openness there. So the claim of "no clear evidence" is still susceptible to the response: What clear evidence would you expect, given 1. China and 2. the catastrophic consequences of this leak?
I would want to know why a lab leak is likely, beyond that someone had a notion. There is epidemiological evidence for the epidemic starting in a market, which is also how the previous SARS is known to have started.
Aside from anything else “the nightmare of circumstantial evidence” - as was explicitly stated in the Fauci/Farrar emails at the beginning of the pandemic
Problem is I then have to Google the claim to see if it really is evidence. This is the full quote from Ian Lipkin:
It does not eliminate the possibility of inadvertent release following adaptation through selection in culture at the institute in Wuhan. Given the scale of the bat CoV research pursued there and the site of emergence of the first human cases we have a nightmare of circumstantial evidence to assess.
So it seems not. The recent DNI report states
Prior to the pandemic, we assess WIV scientists conducted extensive research on coronaviruses, which included animal sampling and genetic analysis. We continue to have no indication that the WIV’s pre-pandemic research holdings included SARSCoV-2 or a close progenitor, nor any direct evidence that a specific research-related incident occurred involving WIV personnel before the pandemic that could have caused the COVID pandemic.
So Covid 19 doesn't match a virus the lab was known to be working on. We have to have some other reason to suspect a lab leak.
"a virus the lab was known to be working on" is rather the point. Again, this is mere absence of evidence. Evidence of absence would require a complete, audited list from the lab of everything it was up to.
Given that there is significant evidence China executed or otherwise silenced - forever - early covid whistleblowers, the idea they wouldn’t destroy evidence at the lab is fanciful. Indeed the opposite is true. They surely DID destroy evidence
Indeed, and they also destroyed evidence at the market. I don't think we've ever argued that China behaved responsibly or openly with regard to what happened.
That’s fair
However a lab leak would be even more embarrassing for them than a market origin. Much more sinister. And problematic in multiple ways
And of course a lab leak would be almost equally awkward for lots of people in America - given that the Yanks funded (as they now belatedly admit) GoF research at Wuhan
This whole saga has stretched on for so long because both superpowers have reason to cover it up, and to get the truth we need science to admit Yeah, science fucked up
I assume the WTF button had to be added to allow appropriate responses to HYUFD's assertion that the graph showed the Tories and and Labour managed waiting lists equally well.
It seems a bit biased to have a "Want Tory Future" button for HYUFD's posts.
May I propose another set of response buttons to be used only on Saturday mornings "Bowled", "Six", "Silly Mid Wicket", "Cow Corner" - not just to confuse the Russian chat bots but also given todays reporting to reassure any classist, mysoginist, nationalists that the site will continue to cater for the right chaps.
It says no clear evidence. AOEINEOA. What clear evidence could there be anyway? CCTV of avirus sneaking out of the back door?
In my lifetime there have been two lab leaks in the UK that I am aware of, Smallpox and Foot and Mouth. Both were provable lab leaks. So to say there can't be any clear evidence of a lab leak is obviously not correct.
It may well be a lab leak and there may not be any evidence that can be found, but that doesn't mean it is a lab leak. It may be, it may not be.
However unlike @leon I don't jump to conclusions. If leon didn't come out with so much tosh all the time (Do we all remember the mass alien ships over Ukraine?) we might take him more seriously. I can think of two pieces of evidence he provided for absolute proof it came from a lab that were completely dismantled here (one was from Fox news ffs).
Which is exactly the point: Likely but not proven is probably as good as we are going to get with an outbreak in China. They don't do openness there. So the claim of "no clear evidence" is still susceptible to the response: What clear evidence would you expect, given 1. China and 2. the catastrophic consequences of this leak?
I would want to know why a lab leak is likely, beyond that someone had a notion. There is epidemiological evidence for the epidemic starting in a market, which is also how the previous SARS is known to have started.
That evidence is basically "the first cases were near the wet market." Given the geography, that also implies "the first cases were near the lab."
Let's also look at the terminology here. "Wet market" means no more than, a collection of butchers and fishmongers and whatever selling freshly slaughtered, unpackaged meet. Most English high streets would qualify. And anyway you can hardly base an argument on "wet markets are notorious breeding grounds for novel viruses" when the alternative is a lab expressly designed at enormous expense to be a breeding ground for novel viruses.
A large proportion of the known first cases were actually in the wet market. The WIV isn't near the market. Wuhan is a tri-city metropolis. The lab and the market are in different historical cities.
The report also indicated that female cricketers playing at domestic professional level are disproportionately white: in 2021, there were only two Black British, four mixed/multiple ethnicity and eight South Asian female players, out of a total of 161. Page 11
As with the women footballers, the stats are being used as proof of racism in women's cricket.
It says no clear evidence. AOEINEOA. What clear evidence could there be anyway? CCTV of avirus sneaking out of the back door?
In my lifetime there have been two lab leaks in the UK that I am aware of, Smallpox and Foot and Mouth. Both were provable lab leaks. So to say there can't be any clear evidence of a lab leak is obviously not correct.
It may well be a lab leak and there may not be any evidence that can be found, but that doesn't mean it is a lab leak. It may be, it may not be.
However unlike @leon I don't jump to conclusions. If leon didn't come out with so much tosh all the time (Do we all remember the mass alien ships over Ukraine?) we might take him more seriously. I can think of two pieces of evidence he provided for absolute proof it came from a lab that were completely dismantled here (one was from Fox news ffs).
Which is exactly the point: Likely but not proven is probably as good as we are going to get with an outbreak in China. They don't do openness there. So the claim of "no clear evidence" is still susceptible to the response: What clear evidence would you expect, given 1. China and 2. the catastrophic consequences of this leak?
I would want to know why a lab leak is likely, beyond that someone had a notion. There is epidemiological evidence for the epidemic starting in a market, which is also how the previous SARS is known to have started.
That evidence is basically "the first cases were near the wet market." Given the geography, that also implies "the first cases were near the lab."
Let's also look at the terminology here. "Wet market" means no more than, a collection of butchers and fishmongers and whatever selling freshly slaughtered, unpackaged meet. Most English high streets would qualify. And anyway you can hardly base an argument on "wet markets are notorious breeding grounds for novel viruses" when the alternative is a lab expressly designed at enormous expense to be a breeding ground for novel viruses.
A large proportion of the known first cases were actually in the wet market. The WIV isn't near the market. Wuhan is a tri-city metropolis. The lab and the market are in different historical cities.
It says no clear evidence. AOEINEOA. What clear evidence could there be anyway? CCTV of avirus sneaking out of the back door?
In my lifetime there have been two lab leaks in the UK that I am aware of, Smallpox and Foot and Mouth. Both were provable lab leaks. So to say there can't be any clear evidence of a lab leak is obviously not correct.
It may well be a lab leak and there may not be any evidence that can be found, but that doesn't mean it is a lab leak. It may be, it may not be.
However unlike @leon I don't jump to conclusions. If leon didn't come out with so much tosh all the time (Do we all remember the mass alien ships over Ukraine?) we might take him more seriously. I can think of two pieces of evidence he provided for absolute proof it came from a lab that were completely dismantled here (one was from Fox news ffs).
Which is exactly the point: Likely but not proven is probably as good as we are going to get with an outbreak in China. They don't do openness there. So the claim of "no clear evidence" is still susceptible to the response: What clear evidence would you expect, given 1. China and 2. the catastrophic consequences of this leak?
I would want to know why a lab leak is likely, beyond that someone had a notion. There is epidemiological evidence for the epidemic starting in a market, which is also how the previous SARS is known to have started.
Aside from anything else “the nightmare of circumstantial evidence” - as was explicitly stated in the Fauci/Farrar emails at the beginning of the pandemic
Problem is I then have to Google the claim to see if it really is evidence. This is the full quote from Ian Lipkin:
It does not eliminate the possibility of inadvertent release following adaptation through selection in culture at the institute in Wuhan. Given the scale of the bat CoV research pursued there and the site of emergence of the first human cases we have a nightmare of circumstantial evidence to assess.
So it seems not. The recent DNI report states
Prior to the pandemic, we assess WIV scientists conducted extensive research on coronaviruses, which included animal sampling and genetic analysis. We continue to have no indication that the WIV’s pre-pandemic research holdings included SARSCoV-2 or a close progenitor, nor any direct evidence that a specific research-related incident occurred involving WIV personnel before the pandemic that could have caused the COVID pandemic.
So Covid 19 doesn't match a virus the lab was known to be working on. We have to have some other reason to suspect a lab leak.
"a virus the lab was known to be working on" is rather the point. Again, this is mere absence of evidence. Evidence of absence would require a complete, audited list from the lab of everything it was up to.
Given that there is significant evidence China executed or otherwise silenced - forever - early covid whistleblowers, the idea they wouldn’t destroy evidence at the lab is fanciful. Indeed the opposite is true. They surely DID destroy evidence
Indeed, and they also destroyed evidence at the market. I don't think we've ever argued that China behaved responsibly or openly with regard to what happened.
Indeed.
From what we know, I think we can say for certain that China behaved irresponsibly.
I think the balance of probabilities is that it probably came from the Lab.
I think the less likely, but still possible option, is that it came naturally to and from the market without any involvement of the Lab.
But I don't think we will ever know for certain.
There is also the modest possibility - discussed right at the outset - that a worker at the WIV/CDC tried to sell lab bats at the market. I think it’s quite unlikely, but it has the advantage of pleasing both sides
On topic. Have any pb-ers tried Ozempic or the like?
I’m not obese but I just can’t shift the ten-twelve pounds I put on during the pandemic - even now. If I could magic it away with a needle or a pill, I would
No I haven't Leon, but I have had to lose quite a bit of weight recently for initially my pit special flight and then more recently my cycle trip. I eat and drink a lot. The only way I can manage it is to crash diet. Probably not advisable but I can lose several kg per week. I just stuff myself with fruit, tasty salad and good quality bread and don't touch alcohol. Probably not good for me but I lost 8kg in a few weeks prior to my cycle trip which is more than you are after.
IMHO the decline in ‘ordinary’ boys (and girls) playing cricket is down to the massive increase in traffic. In my youth the street where I lived, and played cricket in the summer saw about two cars per day. Now it’s much busier, even though it’s purely residential. In the small town where I live now the Cricket Club is flourishing, with three men’s teams, a boys and a girls team and a women’s team.
The report also indicated that female cricketers playing at domestic professional level are disproportionately white: in 2021, there were only two Black British, four mixed/multiple ethnicity and eight South Asian female players, out of a total of 161. Page 11
As with the women footballers, the stats are being used as proof of racism in women's cricket.
Please can I impose on the good nature of everyone here and ask if anyone has an answer to a technical Local Government Finance question?
Does anyone know why local authorities want their Council Tax paid in 10 equal payments, rather than once a month for a year? I have been paying for my Council Tax by standing order (for 12 months) for the last 20 years or so, but my Council is now threatening me with a Magistrates Court summons if I don't pay up the full amount by tomorrow or set up a direct debit. What is their authority for doing this? Is it legislation, or their own local by-law?
I have a perfectly good payments record (I have lived in the same house for over 30 years) and I cannot work out why they are having a hissy fit now.
I know that back in the 1970s, in the days of local Rates, the authorities needed two months to prepare their annual accounts, but that was in an age before computers, on-line banking and Excel spreadsheets. Surely their systems can cope with me paying in 12 equal instalments rather than 10? FWIW, I want to pay in monthly instalments because that's how I get paid, and it makes my budgeting easier.
Any help gratefully received.
A few years ago, I didn't receive the council tax bill and made no payment at all for four months. When we worked out what had happened, they just told me they needed payment in full by the end of the year. So unless there has been a change in the law, which is of course possible, they are talking bollocks.
I would demand they show their reasoning.
Magistrates court is a pretty empty threat at the moment I would have thought. It would take months to get anywhere and by then you'll have paid most of it anyway.
Pay in 10 instalments because fighting them to pay in 12 lots is not worth the candle (unless OP is skint). That 10 is standard across the country suggests there might be a reason for it, but that's not important.
IIRC years back, it was changed so that you can pay 12 monthly instalments, rather than 10. Seem to recall it was 2014?
Sounds like @AugustusCarp2 is having an encounter with a clipboardista. Who is making up rules - probably got a target they've invented to get everyone on a direct debit.
Logic for 10 payments was that it means payments are taken from May to February and March / April can be spent sorting out getting next years bills out.
How relevant that is in the 21st century when bill generation and similar should be automatic is a thought experiment for others.
IMHO the decline in ‘ordinary’ boys (and girls) playing cricket is down to the massive increase in traffic. In my youth the street where I lived, and played cricket in the summer saw about two cars per day. Now it’s much busier, even though it’s purely residential. In the small town where I live now the Cricket Club is flourishing, with three men’s teams, a boys and a girls team and a women’s team.
Michael Grade said he brought Neighbours to BBC1 because its characters were playing street cricket in the opening titles.
On topic. Have any pb-ers tried Ozempic or the like?
I’m not obese but I just can’t shift the ten-twelve pounds I put on during the pandemic - even now. If I could magic it away with a needle or a pill, I would
No I haven't Leon, but I have had to lose quite a bit of weight recently for initially my pit special flight and then more recently my cycle trip. I eat and drink a lot. The only way I can manage it is to crash diet. Probably not advisable but I can lose several kg per week. I just stuff myself with fruit, tasty salad and good quality bread and don't touch alcohol. Probably not good for me but I lost 8kg in a few weeks prior to my cycle trip which is more than you are after.
I’ve always been able to do that - previously. Crash dieting and fasting. For some reason I’m finding that impossible, atm
Just wondering if we have any Ozempians on PB
I get very varied accounts from friends and fam. From “brilliant” to “ugh, made me sick, did nothing”
The report also indicated that female cricketers playing at domestic professional level are disproportionately white: in 2021, there were only two Black British, four mixed/multiple ethnicity and eight South Asian female players, out of a total of 161. Page 11
As with the women footballers, the stats are being used as proof of racism in women's cricket.
When's the investigation into sprinting ?
As for the point about independent schools - I'm not sure if this has changed but the first XI teams at mine were always cricket and rugby. Given the huge draw of football generally in the population I always felt like this was why cricketers were more likely to emerge from private schools.
On topic. Have any pb-ers tried Ozempic or the like?
I’m not obese but I just can’t shift the ten-twelve pounds I put on during the pandemic - even now. If I could magic it away with a needle or a pill, I would
IMHO the decline in ‘ordinary’ boys (and girls) playing cricket is down to the massive increase in traffic. In my youth the street where I lived, and played cricket in the summer saw about two cars per day. Now it’s much busier, even though it’s purely residential. In the small town where I live now the Cricket Club is flourishing, with three men’s teams, a boys and a girls team and a women’s team.
Sport organised by kids themselves must be 90% or more down from the last millenium, whilst time spent on coached sport will be up fivefold or more. Kids nowadays get far far better coaching, and facilities (when they exist), but lose out on the creativity and play side of sport.
On topic. Have any pb-ers tried Ozempic or the like?
I’m not obese but I just can’t shift the ten-twelve pounds I put on during the pandemic - even now. If I could magic it away with a needle or a pill, I would
Just go out there and get some exercise...
I do! Gym five times a week and a decent walk every day
The report also indicated that female cricketers playing at domestic professional level are disproportionately white: in 2021, there were only two Black British, four mixed/multiple ethnicity and eight South Asian female players, out of a total of 161. Page 11
As with the women footballers, the stats are being used as proof of racism in women's cricket.
When's the investigation into sprinting ?
As for the point about independent schools - I'm not sure if this has changed but the first XI teams at mine were always cricket and rugby. Given the huge draw of football generally in the population I always felt like this was why cricketers were more likely to emerge from private schools.
With the foundation of football academy programmes, they are hoovering up talent from very young age in bigger numbers than ever and actively discourage / forbid participation in other sports (if you had time anyway, as many run training 2-3 times a week + matches & then summer tours etc).
My friends child is in one, not allowed to play any school sports even if they had any time, which they don't (they train 3 times a week plus have gym training programme) & only a small break from grind of training, matches, tours in the summer.
On topic. Have any pb-ers tried Ozempic or the like?
I’m not obese but I just can’t shift the ten-twelve pounds I put on during the pandemic - even now. If I could magic it away with a needle or a pill, I would
I wouldn't. The blurb: "The most common side effects of Ozempic® may include nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, stomach (abdominal) pain, and constipation."
(edit) Caproni's creations feature in the movies of Miyazaki, of course.
Considering I spent 20 years prolonging my adolescence in military aviation I actually have a pretty thin CV and haven't flown a great variety of aircraft - Bulldog, Chipmunk, Tucano (worst), Hawk, Harrier, Tomcat (best).
Been a sand bag in just about everything though. F-15, F-16, F/A-18, T-45, Tornado, EA-6, C-2, E-2, T-37, MH-60, CH-53 plus loads of trash haulers (C-130, VC-10, etc.)
Please can I impose on the good nature of everyone here and ask if anyone has an answer to a technical Local Government Finance question?
Does anyone know why local authorities want their Council Tax paid in 10 equal payments, rather than once a month for a year? I have been paying for my Council Tax by standing order (for 12 months) for the last 20 years or so, but my Council is now threatening me with a Magistrates Court summons if I don't pay up the full amount by tomorrow or set up a direct debit. What is their authority for doing this? Is it legislation, or their own local by-law?
I have a perfectly good payments record (I have lived in the same house for over 30 years) and I cannot work out why they are having a hissy fit now.
I know that back in the 1970s, in the days of local Rates, the authorities needed two months to prepare their annual accounts, but that was in an age before computers, on-line banking and Excel spreadsheets. Surely their systems can cope with me paying in 12 equal instalments rather than 10? FWIW, I want to pay in monthly instalments because that's how I get paid, and it makes my budgeting easier.
Any help gratefully received.
A few years ago, I didn't receive the council tax bill and made no payment at all for four months. When we worked out what had happened, they just told me they needed payment in full by the end of the year. So unless there has been a change in the law, which is of course possible, they are talking bollocks.
I would demand they show their reasoning.
Magistrates court is a pretty empty threat at the moment I would have thought. It would take months to get anywhere and by then you'll have paid most of it anyway.
Pay in 10 instalments because fighting them to pay in 12 lots is not worth the candle (unless OP is skint). That 10 is standard across the country suggests there might be a reason for it, but that's not important.
IIRC years back, it was changed so that you can pay 12 monthly instalments, rather than 10. Seem to recall it was 2014?
Sounds like @AugustusCarp2 is having an encounter with a clipboardista. Who is making up rules - probably got a target they've invented to get everyone on a direct debit.
Logic for 10 payments was that it means payments are taken from May to February and March / April can be spent sorting out getting next years bills out.
How relevant that is in the 21st century when bill generation and similar should be automatic is a thought experiment for others.
With savings rate approaching 4% must be worth about 0.5-1% or so in extra revenue to the council to get the money in slightly early.
On topic. Have any pb-ers tried Ozempic or the like?
I’m not obese but I just can’t shift the ten-twelve pounds I put on during the pandemic - even now. If I could magic it away with a needle or a pill, I would
No I haven't Leon, but I have had to lose quite a bit of weight recently for initially my pit special flight and then more recently my cycle trip. I eat and drink a lot. The only way I can manage it is to crash diet. Probably not advisable but I can lose several kg per week. I just stuff myself with fruit, tasty salad and good quality bread and don't touch alcohol. Probably not good for me but I lost 8kg in a few weeks prior to my cycle trip which is more than you are after.
I’ve always been able to do that - previously. Crash dieting and fasting. For some reason I’m finding that impossible, atm
Just wondering if we have any Ozempians on PB
I get very varied accounts from friends and fam. From “brilliant” to “ugh, made me sick, did nothing”
Ok. Sorry to hear that. I did wonder about posting it as it was a bit like posting the bleeding obvious, but I did because I can't do the normal diets as I like my food too much and this works for me.
On topic. Have any pb-ers tried Ozempic or the like?
I’m not obese but I just can’t shift the ten-twelve pounds I put on during the pandemic - even now. If I could magic it away with a needle or a pill, I would
Just go out there and get some exercise...
Weight loss 70% diet 15% exercise 15% genetics/age.
I miss the like button. What I would like more than a like is an "Appreciate" button. Sometimes I don't like the content but I appreciate being made aware of something that I did not know and learning something.
On topic. Have any pb-ers tried Ozempic or the like?
I’m not obese but I just can’t shift the ten-twelve pounds I put on during the pandemic - even now. If I could magic it away with a needle or a pill, I would
I've not tried it, though is that the one Boris had a bad time on?
I struggled to shift the COVID weight for ages, still am actually, though I had a fair bit more than 12 lbs to move. It might be that I'm older (my other experience with being overweight happened during my placement abroad at Uni) and it doesn't melt off the way it did when I was 21, but it feels like it's taken ages to shift this weight. Only in the last three or four months have I started to feel that my eating and exercise habits have fully recovered. Exercise 3 times a week and caloric moderation is slowly chipping away at it.
It doesn't answer your specific question, and giving unwarranted health/diet advice is very impolite, but have you tried counting weekly calories? I found thinking about weekly intake helped me moderate a lot better than on a day-to-day basis, at least at first.
IMHO the decline in ‘ordinary’ boys (and girls) playing cricket is down to the massive increase in traffic. In my youth the street where I lived, and played cricket in the summer saw about two cars per day. Now it’s much busier, even though it’s purely residential. In the small town where I live now the Cricket Club is flourishing, with three men’s teams, a boys and a girls team and a women’s team.
Sport organised by kids themselves must be 90% or more down from the last millenium, whilst time spent on coached sport will be up fivefold or more. Kids nowadays get far far better coaching, and facilities (when they exist), but lose out on the creativity and play side of sport.
Parents demand organised activites and kids when not doing so have the draw of video games (that are now social in the way they weren't 20 years ago) plus mindless tik tok scrolling etc.
When i was a kid, the only way you got to interact with your mates was going outside, which then turned into informal kick about, etc etc etc. Now you can just talk to them from your cellphone, shout at them in a video game etc
It says no clear evidence. AOEINEOA. What clear evidence could there be anyway? CCTV of avirus sneaking out of the back door?
In my lifetime there have been two lab leaks in the UK that I am aware of, Smallpox and Foot and Mouth. Both were provable lab leaks. So to say there can't be any clear evidence of a lab leak is obviously not correct.
It may well be a lab leak and there may not be any evidence that can be found, but that doesn't mean it is a lab leak. It may be, it may not be.
However unlike @leon I don't jump to conclusions. If leon didn't come out with so much tosh all the time (Do we all remember the mass alien ships over Ukraine?) we might take him more seriously. I can think of two pieces of evidence he provided for absolute proof it came from a lab that were completely dismantled here (one was from Fox news ffs).
Which is exactly the point: Likely but not proven is probably as good as we are going to get with an outbreak in China. They don't do openness there. So the claim of "no clear evidence" is still susceptible to the response: What clear evidence would you expect, given 1. China and 2. the catastrophic consequences of this leak?
I would want to know why a lab leak is likely, beyond that someone had a notion. There is epidemiological evidence for the epidemic starting in a market, which is also how the previous SARS is known to have started.
Aside from anything else “the nightmare of circumstantial evidence” - as was explicitly stated in the Fauci/Farrar emails at the beginning of the pandemic
Problem is I then have to Google the claim to see if it really is evidence. This is the full quote from Ian Lipkin:
It does not eliminate the possibility of inadvertent release following adaptation through selection in culture at the institute in Wuhan. Given the scale of the bat CoV research pursued there and the site of emergence of the first human cases we have a nightmare of circumstantial evidence to assess.
So it seems not. The recent DNI report states
Prior to the pandemic, we assess WIV scientists conducted extensive research on coronaviruses, which included animal sampling and genetic analysis. We continue to have no indication that the WIV’s pre-pandemic research holdings included SARSCoV-2 or a close progenitor, nor any direct evidence that a specific research-related incident occurred involving WIV personnel before the pandemic that could have caused the COVID pandemic.
So Covid 19 doesn't match a virus the lab was known to be working on. We have to have some other reason to suspect a lab leak.
"a virus the lab was known to be working on" is rather the point. Again, this is mere absence of evidence. Evidence of absence would require a complete, audited list from the lab of everything it was up to.
Given that there is significant evidence China executed or otherwise silenced - forever - early covid whistleblowers, the idea they wouldn’t destroy evidence at the lab is fanciful. Indeed the opposite is true. They surely DID destroy evidence
Indeed, and they also destroyed evidence at the market. I don't think we've ever argued that China behaved responsibly or openly with regard to what happened.
Indeed.
From what we know, I think we can say for certain that China behaved irresponsibly.
I think the balance of probabilities is that it probably came from the Lab.
I think the less likely, but still possible option, is that it came naturally to and from the market without any involvement of the Lab.
But I don't think we will ever know for certain.
There is also the modest possibility - discussed right at the outset - that a worker at the WIV/CDC tried to sell lab bats at the market. I think it’s quite unlikely, but it has the advantage of pleasing both sides
If that happened, then it's from the lab.
How it leaked from the lab, if it did, is a different question to did it?
If I was to break it down I'd guess the odds as
80% accidental leak from lab. 15% natural to the market, no lab involvement. 5% deliberate leak from lab.
On topic. Have any pb-ers tried Ozempic or the like?
I’m not obese but I just can’t shift the ten-twelve pounds I put on during the pandemic - even now. If I could magic it away with a needle or a pill, I would
I've not tried it, though is that the one Boris had a bad time on?
I struggled to shift the COVID weight for ages, still am actually, though I had a fair bit more than 12 lbs to move. It might be that I'm older (my other experience with being overweight happened during my placement abroad at Uni) and it doesn't melt off the way it did when I was 21, but it feels like it's taken ages to shift this weight. Only in the last three or four months have I started to feel that my eating and exercise habits have fully recovered. Exercise 3 times a week and caloric moderation is slowly chipping away at it.
It doesn't answer your specific question, and giving unwarranted health/diet advice is very impolite, but have you tried counting weekly calories? I found thinking about weekly intake helped me moderate a lot better than on a day-to-day basis, at least at first.
If Boris was on it, at least that does explain why he thought shits and giggles was an appropriate philosophy for number 10.
- The virus shows no signs of having been tampered with. This doesn't preclude lab leak; it merely points to IF that happened, it was from a naturally collected sample, which is certainly possible. It does, though, mean that the coincidence is considerably less so - as most large Chinese cities have at least one lab working on understanding bat coronaviruses, we'd have a co-located potential lab source in most large Chinese cities (ie WCDC (holds samples and investigates them) rather than WIV (which does more detailed stuff).
- There is no "smoking gun" - no sign of tampering, no patient zero(s), no literature that would point towards it prior to an accident, and so forth.
- China has had history with live animal markets - bringing in multiple species (including suitable intermediary species for bat coronaviruses) from far and wide, crowding them in unsanitary conditions, and pouring people through them in the prefect environment for both zoonotic transfer and super-spreading conditions. This is precisely why they were supposed to have banned these following SARS. And we have evidence that they did NOT do so, and allowed this to continue, but hurriedly tried to cover up this and claim "no, wasn't that, wasn't us, must have come from elsewhere."
- The superspreading source was the live animal market, and multiple events sparked from there (most "attempted" hops fizzle out, but enough events occurred to support two separate lineages both sourced from the live animal market). This is perfectly compatible with zoonotic transfer from repeatedly selling similar animals from the same source; it's harder to support multiple lab leaks where no superspreading events happened anywhere else than the live animal market (no train stations, no airports, no other markets or supermarkets, no sports facilities, no nothing).
- No repercussions have happened to any staff members of WIV or WCDC, which would be strange if China believed they were the source of this massive embarrassment to China.
A lab leak source could still have happened. I'd like some evidence as to how the multiple lineages were introduced (there and not elsewhere), though. I'm definitely leaning quite strongly towards zoonosis, though, but am amenable to evidence the other way.
Regardless, work to both eliminate live animal markets and to tighten up biosafety in all labs should go forwards.
IMHO the decline in ‘ordinary’ boys (and girls) playing cricket is down to the massive increase in traffic. In my youth the street where I lived, and played cricket in the summer saw about two cars per day. Now it’s much busier, even though it’s purely residential. In the small town where I live now the Cricket Club is flourishing, with three men’s teams, a boys and a girls team and a women’s team.
Michael Grade said he brought Neighbours to BBC1 because its characters were playing street cricket in the opening titles.
Which explains his hatred of Doctor Who. Not enough cricket. 😀
On topic. Have any pb-ers tried Ozempic or the like?
I’m not obese but I just can’t shift the ten-twelve pounds I put on during the pandemic - even now. If I could magic it away with a needle or a pill, I would
Just go out there and get some exercise...
Weight loss 70% diet 15% exercise 15% genetics/age.
I eat 1700 kCal/day at age 55 to maintain the same weight (69kg) as when I ate 2800kCal/day at age 35. I have to drop to 1200 kCal/day if I'm injured and can't do my normal 200km/week on the bike.
Another point....they are extremely proactive at going out into the community & observing kids in unorganised settings like football cages and then getting them into the formalised programmes. They aren't just waiting to see a kid at 13-14-15 playing for a local team.
I think most other sports like cricket rely on selecting from those already established within club cricket. Its something that Ebony-Rainford Brent has tried to address with a scheme, but it drop in the ocean compared to the way football is able to hoover up a wide net of atheletical gifted kids where spending a few £100k a year on people scouting / training kids is nothing if you get one player makes it to the first team.
Outside T20 & Test cricket, there is no money in cricket. County cricketers are on buttons. It a crap occupation if you are an average county player. Where as even lower league football pros are way above average wages these days.
On topic. Have any pb-ers tried Ozempic or the like?
I’m not obese but I just can’t shift the ten-twelve pounds I put on during the pandemic - even now. If I could magic it away with a needle or a pill, I would
Just go out there and get some exercise...
I do! Gym five times a week and a decent walk every day
I have the impression you drink a lot of alcohol. Have you tried cutting back on that?
On topic. Have any pb-ers tried Ozempic or the like?
I’m not obese but I just can’t shift the ten-twelve pounds I put on during the pandemic - even now. If I could magic it away with a needle or a pill, I would
I've not tried it, though is that the one Boris had a bad time on?
I struggled to shift the COVID weight for ages, still am actually, though I had a fair bit more than 12 lbs to move. It might be that I'm older (my other experience with being overweight happened during my placement abroad at Uni) and it doesn't melt off the way it did when I was 21, but it feels like it's taken ages to shift this weight. Only in the last three or four months have I started to feel that my eating and exercise habits have fully recovered. Exercise 3 times a week and caloric moderation is slowly chipping away at it.
It doesn't answer your specific question, and giving unwarranted health/diet advice is very impolite, but have you tried counting weekly calories? I found thinking about weekly intake helped me moderate a lot better than on a day-to-day basis, at least at first.
My technique - which worked for fifteen years - was blissfully simply (probably why it worked)
I shifted from 14 stone 6 (fat) to about 12 stone 12 (just about right) over several months. As you are meant to do
After that whenever I went over 13 stone I simply fasted - ate nothing - til I was back to 12 stone 12. Worked like a dream. For 15 years!
The pandemic screwed it all up and I’ve never - psychologically - been able to get back down to the magic 12 stone 12. I get too bored
So my hope is I can use ozempic to give me that crucial weight loss to 12 12, then I can revert to my old technique
Tho on the advice of @Miklosvar I have just googled ozempic and apparently it makes thousands of people shit themselves
On topic. Have any pb-ers tried Ozempic or the like?
I’m not obese but I just can’t shift the ten-twelve pounds I put on during the pandemic - even now. If I could magic it away with a needle or a pill, I would
Just go out there and get some exercise...
I do! Gym five times a week and a decent walk every day
I have the impression you drink a lot of alcohol. Have you tried cutting back on that?
On topic. Have any pb-ers tried Ozempic or the like?
I’m not obese but I just can’t shift the ten-twelve pounds I put on during the pandemic - even now. If I could magic it away with a needle or a pill, I would
Just go out there and get some exercise...
I do! Gym five times a week and a decent walk every day
I have the impression you drink a lot of alcohol. Have you tried cutting back on that?
On topic. Have any pb-ers tried Ozempic or the like?
I’m not obese but I just can’t shift the ten-twelve pounds I put on during the pandemic - even now. If I could magic it away with a needle or a pill, I would
No I haven't Leon, but I have had to lose quite a bit of weight recently for initially my pit special flight and then more recently my cycle trip. I eat and drink a lot. The only way I can manage it is to crash diet. Probably not advisable but I can lose several kg per week. I just stuff myself with fruit, tasty salad and good quality bread and don't touch alcohol. Probably not good for me but I lost 8kg in a few weeks prior to my cycle trip which is more than you are after.
I’ve always been able to do that - previously. Crash dieting and fasting. For some reason I’m finding that impossible, atm
Just wondering if we have any Ozempians on PB
I get very varied accounts from friends and fam. From “brilliant” to “ugh, made me sick, did nothing”
I'd wait a few years to see what side effects emerge. Interfering with chemical signalling in the brain is not usually without long term consequences.
Good morning one & all! Can I join the people who don’t like the WTF button, please!
+1
Is RCS ok?
Good morning
Maybe we only value some things when we have lost them !!!!
Don't it always seem to go That you don't know what you've got Till it's gone They took all our likes And put up a 'what the fuck'
like
I can't quite tell if this a campaign to bring back the like button or the spam button?
I'm just expressing my appreciation for certain posts that I like but have nothing to add to. There used to be a way to do that without posting a comment; now there isn't.
On topic. Have any pb-ers tried Ozempic or the like?
I’m not obese but I just can’t shift the ten-twelve pounds I put on during the pandemic - even now. If I could magic it away with a needle or a pill, I would
I've not tried it, though is that the one Boris had a bad time on?
I struggled to shift the COVID weight for ages, still am actually, though I had a fair bit more than 12 lbs to move. It might be that I'm older (my other experience with being overweight happened during my placement abroad at Uni) and it doesn't melt off the way it did when I was 21, but it feels like it's taken ages to shift this weight. Only in the last three or four months have I started to feel that my eating and exercise habits have fully recovered. Exercise 3 times a week and caloric moderation is slowly chipping away at it.
It doesn't answer your specific question, and giving unwarranted health/diet advice is very impolite, but have you tried counting weekly calories? I found thinking about weekly intake helped me moderate a lot better than on a day-to-day basis, at least at first.
My technique - which worked for fifteen years - was blissfully simply (probably why it worked)
I shifted from 14 stone 6 (fat) to about 12 stone 12 (just about right) over several months. As you are meant to do
After that whenever I went over 13 stone I simply fasted - ate nothing - til I was back to 12 stone 12. Worked like a dream. For 15 years!
The pandemic screwed it all up and I’ve never - psychologically - been able to get back down to the magic 12 stone 12. I get too bored
So my hope is I can use ozempic to give me that crucial weight loss to 12 12, then I can revert to my old technique
Tho on the advice of @Miklosvar I have just googled ozempic and apparently it makes thousands of people shit themselves
On topic. Have any pb-ers tried Ozempic or the like?
I’m not obese but I just can’t shift the ten-twelve pounds I put on during the pandemic - even now. If I could magic it away with a needle or a pill, I would
I've not tried it, though is that the one Boris had a bad time on?
I struggled to shift the COVID weight for ages, still am actually, though I had a fair bit more than 12 lbs to move. It might be that I'm older (my other experience with being overweight happened during my placement abroad at Uni) and it doesn't melt off the way it did when I was 21, but it feels like it's taken ages to shift this weight. Only in the last three or four months have I started to feel that my eating and exercise habits have fully recovered. Exercise 3 times a week and caloric moderation is slowly chipping away at it.
It doesn't answer your specific question, and giving unwarranted health/diet advice is very impolite, but have you tried counting weekly calories? I found thinking about weekly intake helped me moderate a lot better than on a day-to-day basis, at least at first.
My technique - which worked for fifteen years - was blissfully simply (probably why it worked)
I shifted from 14 stone 6 (fat) to about 12 stone 12 (just about right) over several months. As you are meant to do
After that whenever I went over 13 stone I simply fasted - ate nothing - til I was back to 12 stone 12. Worked like a dream. For 15 years!
The pandemic screwed it all up and I’ve never - psychologically - been able to get back down to the magic 12 stone 12. I get too bored
So my hope is I can use ozempic to give me that crucial weight loss to 12 12, then I can revert to my old technique
Tho on the advice of @Miklosvar I have just googled ozempic and apparently it makes thousands of people shit themselves
Oh
Just imagine if you had taken Ozempic just before you watched Threads.
Chancellor Jeremy Hunt in Brussels to sign financial services cooperation Memorandum of Understanding with EU, one of the fruits of the Windsor Agreement over NI Brexit rules…
On topic. Have any pb-ers tried Ozempic or the like?
I’m not obese but I just can’t shift the ten-twelve pounds I put on during the pandemic - even now. If I could magic it away with a needle or a pill, I would
Just go out there and get some exercise...
I do! Gym five times a week and a decent walk every day
I have the impression you drink a lot of alcohol. Have you tried cutting back on that?
Yes. A bit - tho not entirely
You don't need to cut it out completely, but set a limit and stick to it. And make that limit low. Try no more than 1 bottle of wine or equivalent per fortnight. Force yourself to really pick and choose when to use your "budget". Stick with it for a while, say three months. Write it down to keep yourself honest, and don't commit yourself to going back or carrying on until the end of that fixed period. Treat it as an experiment rather than a regime, and that way you can make a sensible choice afterwards to decide whether it suits you. Maybe you value the fun over the the weight loss and decide to carry on boozing, or maybe you like it better feeling trimmer and soberer. Just give yourself a proper run at it so you can decide based on what it's actually like, rather than on your hopes and fears of what it might be like.
Chancellor Jeremy Hunt in Brussels to sign financial services cooperation Memorandum of Understanding with EU, one of the fruits of the Windsor Agreement over NI Brexit rules…
(edit) Caproni's creations feature in the movies of Miyazaki, of course.
Considering I spent 20 years prolonging my adolescence in military aviation I actually have a pretty thin CV and haven't flown a great variety of aircraft - Bulldog, Chipmunk, Tucano (worst), Hawk, Harrier, Tomcat (best).
Been a sand bag in just about everything though. F-15, F-16, F/A-18, T-45, Tornado, EA-6, C-2, E-2, T-37, MH-60, CH-53 plus loads of trash haulers (C-130, VC-10, etc.)
FWIW, I've flown a Chipmunk, and a Slingsby T.31 (worst).
The early developments in Italian aviation were pretty mad. Apparently the test pilot looped Caproni's WWI heavy bomber prototype.
Re; a post much earler in the day indicating conspiracy thinking, I don't see what reason Rubio and others would have to lie. If he's vice-chair of the Intelligence Committee, and he says that multiple, current and high-level insiders, have come forward to all the people at his Committee with these claims, that's not really the kind of thing he'd find it very easy to lie about.
That would seem to leave two options ; either there's a large-scale misinformation campaign by senior people in the U.S. to cover up some sort of very powerful earth technology, or something else..
My father died 25 years ago leaving my brother and me his house and a patch of land (several acres afaIcr including a small loch). We sold the house and the land a couple of years later. The buyer now wants to build holiday homes on that land and has discovered that it was not included in the sale, and my father's estate still holds title to the land. He appears to think that our solicitors were at fault so should sort this out foc, though it seems to me his solicitor should also have done due diligence at that point.
Since we had thought that the land was disposed of at the time, morally I guess we should do what we can to resolve the current situation on that assumption, otoh my brother and I are currently the legal landowners. The buyer originally paid a fraction of the current value of house and land (10% I'd very roughly guess) and now wants to develop it commercially, so it's not as if we're standing in the way of an orphanage or donkey sanctuary. Should I be asking for a payment to transfer ownership of the land to the buyer?
On topic. Have any pb-ers tried Ozempic or the like?
I’m not obese but I just can’t shift the ten-twelve pounds I put on during the pandemic - even now. If I could magic it away with a needle or a pill, I would
Just go out there and get some exercise...
I do! Gym five times a week and a decent walk every day
I have the impression you drink a lot of alcohol. Have you tried cutting back on that?
Yes. A bit - tho not entirely
You don't need to cut it out completely, but set a limit and stick to it. And make that limit low. Try no more than 1 bottle of wine or equivalent per fortnight. Force yourself to really pick and choose when to use your "budget". Stick with it for a while, say three months. Write it down to keep yourself honest, and don't commit yourself to going back or carrying on until the end of that fixed period. Treat it as an experiment rather than a regime, and that way you can make a sensible choice afterwards to decide whether it suits you. Maybe you value the fun over the the weight loss and decide to carry on boozing, or maybe you like it better feeling trimmer and soberer. Just give yourself a proper run at it so you can decide based on what it's actually like, rather than on your hopes and fears of what it might be like.
Apparently ozempic also reduces - significantly - your desire for booze. So that’s a positive side effect if it is the case. I’ll keep PB posted
Totally off-topic but is anyone else having trouble with the Dartford Crossing site? I’m trying to check my statement but it’s decided not to recognise my email, let along my password, for log-in.
On topic. Have any pb-ers tried Ozempic or the like?
I’m not obese but I just can’t shift the ten-twelve pounds I put on during the pandemic - even now. If I could magic it away with a needle or a pill, I would
I've not tried it, though is that the one Boris had a bad time on?
I struggled to shift the COVID weight for ages, still am actually, though I had a fair bit more than 12 lbs to move. It might be that I'm older (my other experience with being overweight happened during my placement abroad at Uni) and it doesn't melt off the way it did when I was 21, but it feels like it's taken ages to shift this weight. Only in the last three or four months have I started to feel that my eating and exercise habits have fully recovered. Exercise 3 times a week and caloric moderation is slowly chipping away at it.
It doesn't answer your specific question, and giving unwarranted health/diet advice is very impolite, but have you tried counting weekly calories? I found thinking about weekly intake helped me moderate a lot better than on a day-to-day basis, at least at first.
My technique - which worked for fifteen years - was blissfully simply (probably why it worked)
I shifted from 14 stone 6 (fat) to about 12 stone 12 (just about right) over several months. As you are meant to do
After that whenever I went over 13 stone I simply fasted - ate nothing - til I was back to 12 stone 12. Worked like a dream. For 15 years!
The pandemic screwed it all up and I’ve never - psychologically - been able to get back down to the magic 12 stone 12. I get too bored
So my hope is I can use ozempic to give me that crucial weight loss to 12 12, then I can revert to my old technique
Tho on the advice of @Miklosvar I have just googled ozempic and apparently it makes thousands of people shit themselves
Oh
I think for me part of the delay in losing the weight was psychological as you say. My old strategies pre-COVID weren't working for me post-COVID. It felt like I had to learn them all over again and in the same way as before.
When I got back from my year abroad and realised I was fat, I started calorie restriction with absolute shit, frozen processed rubbish, which I love, to get me to the end of the day. I didn't care if I was hungry when I could look forward to a spam sarnie (four slices, mind) with a cheese single. Then I got sick of that, learned to cook and slowly started on meal prepping more healthy stuff and portioning it out etc (it's a ball ache). I kept that up for years, it was still all calorie counted, and it worked.
Then COVID came and fucked any motivation and the weight piled back on. I think what helped get me back into those habits, psychologically, is that I ended up rebuilding them, more or less, the exact same way and in the same order as I'd built them in the first place. I'll let you know after the next pandemic if my cod psychology works out!
Re; a post much earler in the day indicating conspiracy thinking, I don't see what reason Rubio and others would have to lie. If he's vice-chair of the Intelligence Committee, and he says that multiple, current and high-level insiders, have come forward to all the people at his Committee with these claims, that's not really the kind of thing he'd find it very easy to lie about.
That would seem to leave two options ; either there's a large-scale misinformation campaign by very senior people in the U.S. to cover up some sort of very powerful earth technology, or something else..
That a lot of Americans, including those senior in government, have gone slightly doolally and love a conspiracy theory? They are quite likely to re-elect a narcissist toddler who would otherwise be going to jail as President. They want to ban the teaching of evolution because the world was created in seven days. The best reaction to such statements are a very lazy wtf until ET decides to address us on live tv.
My father died 25 years ago leaving my brother and me his house and a patch of land (several acres afaIcr including a small loch). We sold the house and the land a couple of years later. The buyer now wants to build holiday homes on that land and has discovered that it was not included in the sale, and my father's estate still holds title to the land. He appears to think that our solicitors were at fault so should sort this out foc, though it seems to me his solicitor should also have done due diligence at that point.
Since we had thought that the land was disposed of at the time, morally I guess we should do what we can to resolve the current situation on that assumption, otoh my brother and I are currently the legal landowners. The buyer originally paid a fraction of the current value of house and land (10% I'd very roughly guess) and now wants to develop it commercially, so it's not as if we're standing in the way of an orphanage or donkey sanctuary. Should I be asking for a payment to transfer ownership of the land to the buyer?
Morally I think its reasonable to ask the buyer to cover any legal fees and costs, since their due diligence failed and you shouldn't be out of pocket for that.
Morally I think its unreasonable to get extra money for the land itself, considering you agree that you had sold it.
What the buyer wants to do with their own land, whether it be commercial or orphanage, doesn't morally enter into it in my eyes.
Totally off-topic but is anyone else having trouble with the Dartford Crossing site? I’m trying to check my statement but it’s decided not to recognise my email, let along my password, for log-in.
There currently appears to be 2 Dartford tunnel sites so make sure you are using the correct one...
Re; a post much earler in the day indicating conspiracy thinking, I don't see what reason Rubio and others would have to lie. If he's vice-chair of the Intelligence Committee, and he says that multiple, current and high-level insiders, have come forward to all the people at his Committee with these claims, that's not really the kind of thing he'd find it very easy to lie about.
That would seem to leave two options ; either there's a large-scale misinformation campaign by very senior people in the U.S. to cover up some sort of very powerful earth technology, or something else..
That a lot of Americans, including those senior in government, have gone slightly doolally and love a conspiracy theory? They are quite likely to re-elect a narcissist toddler who would otherwise be going to jail as President. They want to ban the teaching of evolution because the world was created in seven days. The best reaction to such statements are a very lazy wtf until ET decides to address us on live tv.
But he says that these are very senior military and/or currently serving intelligence figures ( and apparently senior politicians ) , who've come forward with direct, first hand evidence to his intelligence committee.
It does have to be said that there is a cultural danger of thinking that because the populist right are nowadays often the most open to these kind of claims, in the twenty-first century and among the broader public, they must be wrong.
My father died 25 years ago leaving my brother and me his house and a patch of land (several acres afaIcr including a small loch). We sold the house and the land a couple of years later. The buyer now wants to build holiday homes on that land and has discovered that it was not included in the sale, and my father's estate still holds title to the land. He appears to think that our solicitors were at fault so should sort this out foc, though it seems to me his solicitor should also have done due diligence at that point.
Since we had thought that the land was disposed of at the time, morally I guess we should do what we can to resolve the current situation on that assumption, otoh my brother and I are currently the legal landowners. The buyer originally paid a fraction of the current value of house and land (10% I'd very roughly guess) and now wants to develop it commercially, so it's not as if we're standing in the way of an orphanage or donkey sanctuary. Should I be asking for a payment to transfer ownership of the land to the buyer?
It sounds like his solicitors were at fault tbh. For a proper opinion you'd have to ask a conveyancing solicitor - not that that would be free of course. But it sounds to me like you retain the rights so I'd sell at the current commercial value if I were you. Does he have the pp for the site ?
Where are you getting it from? I understand there is a chronic shortage in the UK at the moment. And even if you're able to get it one month, it may not be in stock the next, and it takes several months of consistent treatment to get the desired effects?
My father died 25 years ago leaving my brother and me his house and a patch of land (several acres afaIcr including a small loch). We sold the house and the land a couple of years later. The buyer now wants to build holiday homes on that land and has discovered that it was not included in the sale, and my father's estate still holds title to the land. He appears to think that our solicitors were at fault so should sort this out foc, though it seems to me his solicitor should also have done due diligence at that point.
Since we had thought that the land was disposed of at the time, morally I guess we should do what we can to resolve the current situation on that assumption, otoh my brother and I are currently the legal landowners. The buyer originally paid a fraction of the current value of house and land (10% I'd very roughly guess) and now wants to develop it commercially, so it's not as if we're standing in the way of an orphanage or donkey sanctuary. Should I be asking for a payment to transfer ownership of the land to the buyer?
Yes, IMO, if only for the inconvenience. But be generous in how much you ask. And have a chat with your solicitor first.
🚨 EXCLUSIVE: Bayern Munich have today submitted an official proposal to sign Harry Kane from Tottenham Hotspur. #FCBayern written offer to #THFC for 29yo striker worth €70m + add-ons. England captain has 1yr left of existing Spurs contract @TheAthleticFC
- The virus shows no signs of having been tampered with. This doesn't preclude lab leak; it merely points to IF that happened, it was from a naturally collected sample, which is certainly possible. It does, though, mean that the coincidence is considerably less so - as most large Chinese cities have at least one lab working on understanding bat coronaviruses, we'd have a co-located potential lab source in most large Chinese cities (ie WCDC (holds samples and investigates them) rather than WIV (which does more detailed stuff).
- There is no "smoking gun" - no sign of tampering, no patient zero(s), no literature that would point towards it prior to an accident, and so forth.
- China has had history with live animal markets - bringing in multiple species (including suitable intermediary species for bat coronaviruses) from far and wide, crowding them in unsanitary conditions, and pouring people through them in the prefect environment for both zoonotic transfer and super-spreading conditions. This is precisely why they were supposed to have banned these following SARS. And we have evidence that they did NOT do so, and allowed this to continue, but hurriedly tried to cover up this and claim "no, wasn't that, wasn't us, must have come from elsewhere."
- The superspreading source was the live animal market, and multiple events sparked from there (most "attempted" hops fizzle out, but enough events occurred to support two separate lineages both sourced from the live animal market). This is perfectly compatible with zoonotic transfer from repeatedly selling similar animals from the same source; it's harder to support multiple lab leaks where no superspreading events happened anywhere else than the live animal market (no train stations, no airports, no other markets or supermarkets, no sports facilities, no nothing).
- No repercussions have happened to any staff members of WIV or WCDC, which would be strange if China believed they were the source of this massive embarrassment to China.
A lab leak source could still have happened. I'd like some evidence as to how the multiple lineages were introduced (there and not elsewhere), though. I'm definitely leaning quite strongly towards zoonosis, though, but am amenable to evidence the other way.
Regardless, work to both eliminate live animal markets and to tighten up biosafety in all labs should go forwards.
Para 1 - too meta to bother with
para 2 - I don't claim to understand the science, but there's lots of scientists who say the furin cleavage site is actually rather fishy. And is anyone denying that whatever emerged from the lab had its ultimate origins in the wild?
"as most large Chinese cities have at least one lab working on understanding bat coronaviruses, we'd have a co-located potential lab source in most large Chinese cities" - GLARING fallacy, and the sort of thing which discredits lab leak debunkers generally. Say I hear that someone has died violently in Los Angeles, and I sagely say: prolly shot, there's lots of guns in LA, how does it weaken my argument to say that there's lots of guns in all other US cities?
para 3 - AOEINEOA
3 and 4 are your best points, but nobody (sane) is saying the lab leak theory is for certain.
para 5 is batshit. If you are trying to cover up an error by an employee, disciplining him for the error is not the brightest idea in the world. It is an affirmation that the error happened.
This is getting boring. Either theory is distinctly possible and we will never know the answer for certain. But what's striking is that it is the *attacks* on the lab leak theory which almost invariably contain logical howlers as in paras 2, 3 and 5 above.
My father died 25 years ago leaving my brother and me his house and a patch of land (several acres afaIcr including a small loch). We sold the house and the land a couple of years later. The buyer now wants to build holiday homes on that land and has discovered that it was not included in the sale, and my father's estate still holds title to the land. He appears to think that our solicitors were at fault so should sort this out foc, though it seems to me his solicitor should also have done due diligence at that point.
Since we had thought that the land was disposed of at the time, morally I guess we should do what we can to resolve the current situation on that assumption, otoh my brother and I are currently the legal landowners. The buyer originally paid a fraction of the current value of house and land (10% I'd very roughly guess) and now wants to develop it commercially, so it's not as if we're standing in the way of an orphanage or donkey sanctuary. Should I be asking for a payment to transfer ownership of the land to the buyer?
If he has been shafted it is his solicitor who represents him, so feels like the legal target, not you or your solicitor.
Morally, if all parties agreed and were clear at the time and paperwork wrong, then yes he has a moral claim, but should still cover your admin and legal costs to resolve.
To be brutally honest, not sure what I would do though, the world economy is not the most moral of places so would depend on circumstances and could be from free of charge to nominal contribution to a charity to building the holiday homes myself....
Comments
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/06/26/freedom-caucus-vote-marjorie-taylor-greene-00103656
Shared to shamelessly increase my wtf count.....
This is what we should be banging on about with China.
He must mean well-known American politicians. What a story to watch, to put it mildly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RVxLFWZ_V8
or
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9bjywfpgrA
I saw men eating live scorpions 😶😬
I assume the WTF button had to be added to allow appropriate responses to HYUFD's assertion that the graph showed the Tories and and Labour managed waiting lists equally well. A WTAF?!? button would have been more appropriate imo.
England certainly don't bat deep, so have to scratch that one off the hopeium bingo card
I’m not obese but I just can’t shift the ten-twelve pounds I put on during the pandemic - even now. If I could magic it away with a needle or a pill, I would
I don't think we've ever argued that China behaved responsibly or openly with regard to what happened.
https://twitter.com/Rainmaker1973/status/1673616040838717441
(I've never seen anything like it.)
(edit) Caproni's creations feature in the movies of Miyazaki, of course.
3.8 km apart.
From what we know, I think we can say for certain that China behaved irresponsibly.
I think the balance of probabilities is that it probably came from the Lab.
I think the less likely, but still possible option, is that it came naturally to and from the market without any involvement of the Lab.
But I don't think we will ever know for certain.
However a lab leak would be even more embarrassing for them than a market origin. Much more sinister. And problematic in multiple ways
And of course a lab leak would be almost equally awkward for lots of people in America - given that the Yanks funded (as they now belatedly admit) GoF research at Wuhan
This whole saga has stretched on for so long because both superpowers have reason to cover it up, and to get the truth we need science to admit Yeah, science fucked up
REMEMBER LAB LEAK WAS CENSORED FOR A YEAR
In a way it is remarkable we have come this far
The report also indicated that female cricketers playing at domestic professional level are disproportionately white: in 2021, there were only two Black British, four mixed/multiple ethnicity and eight South Asian female players, out of a total of 161. Page 11
As with the women footballers, the stats are being used as proof of racism in women's cricket.
But he was pretty Gold in Spandau Ballet, even if Prigozhin never made it Through the Barricades.
https://www.newsweek.com/marco-rubio-ufo-uap-top-us-officials-investigation-1809201
In the small town where I live now the Cricket Club is flourishing, with three men’s teams, a boys and a girls team and a women’s team.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9bjywfpgrA
How relevant that is in the 21st century when bill generation and similar should be automatic is a thought experiment for others.
Just wondering if we have any Ozempians on PB
I get very varied accounts from friends and fam. From “brilliant” to “ugh, made me sick, did nothing”
As for the point about independent schools - I'm not sure if this has changed but the first XI teams at mine were always cricket and rugby. Given the huge draw of football generally in the population I always felt like this was why cricketers were more likely to emerge from private schools.
My friends child is in one, not allowed to play any school sports even if they had any time, which they don't (they train 3 times a week plus have gym training programme) & only a small break from grind of training, matches, tours in the summer.
The reality: google ozempic defecation.
Hubschraubers: Squirrel, Griffin (best), Lynx (worst)
Been a sand bag in just about everything though. F-15, F-16, F/A-18, T-45, Tornado, EA-6, C-2, E-2, T-37, MH-60, CH-53 plus loads of trash haulers (C-130, VC-10, etc.)
Normal service has resumed on Russian state TV
The UK continues to live rent free in their heads 🇬🇧
https://twitter.com/francis_scarr/status/1673630113131380737
I struggled to shift the COVID weight for ages, still am actually, though I had a fair bit more than 12 lbs to move. It might be that I'm older (my other experience with being overweight happened during my placement abroad at Uni) and it doesn't melt off the way it did when I was 21, but it feels like it's taken ages to shift this weight. Only in the last three or four months have I started to feel that my eating and exercise habits have fully recovered. Exercise 3 times a week and caloric moderation is slowly chipping away at it.
It doesn't answer your specific question, and giving unwarranted health/diet advice is very impolite, but have you tried counting weekly calories? I found thinking about weekly intake helped me moderate a lot better than on a day-to-day basis, at least at first.
When i was a kid, the only way you got to interact with your mates was going outside, which then turned into informal kick about, etc etc etc. Now you can just talk to them from your cellphone, shout at them in a video game etc
How it leaked from the lab, if it did, is a different question to did it?
If I was to break it down I'd guess the odds as
80% accidental leak from lab.
15% natural to the market, no lab involvement.
5% deliberate leak from lab.
Kremlin's spokesperson Peskov denies that Putin lost his grip on power as result of Wagner's mutiny
https://twitter.com/Liveuamap/status/1673630802125504513
- The purported evidence that the Times, Vanity Fair, Fox News, Wall Street Journal etc claimed they had was not real and was unfounded. It is highly likely they all got their stories from the same source - David Asher (as per Christopher Ford's Open Letter here: https://christopherashleyford.medium.com/the-lab-leak-inquiry-at-the-state-department-96973cff3a65 ).
- The virus shows no signs of having been tampered with. This doesn't preclude lab leak; it merely points to IF that happened, it was from a naturally collected sample, which is certainly possible. It does, though, mean that the coincidence is considerably less so - as most large Chinese cities have at least one lab working on understanding bat coronaviruses, we'd have a co-located potential lab source in most large Chinese cities (ie WCDC (holds samples and investigates them) rather than WIV (which does more detailed stuff).
- There is no "smoking gun" - no sign of tampering, no patient zero(s), no literature that would point towards it prior to an accident, and so forth.
- China has had history with live animal markets - bringing in multiple species (including suitable intermediary species for bat coronaviruses) from far and wide, crowding them in unsanitary conditions, and pouring people through them in the prefect environment for both zoonotic transfer and super-spreading conditions. This is precisely why they were supposed to have banned these following SARS. And we have evidence that they did NOT do so, and allowed this to continue, but hurriedly tried to cover up this and claim "no, wasn't that, wasn't us, must have come from elsewhere."
- The superspreading source was the live animal market, and multiple events sparked from there (most "attempted" hops fizzle out, but enough events occurred to support two separate lineages both sourced from the live animal market). This is perfectly compatible with zoonotic transfer from repeatedly selling similar animals from the same source; it's harder to support multiple lab leaks where no superspreading events happened anywhere else than the live animal market (no train stations, no airports, no other markets or supermarkets, no sports facilities, no nothing).
- No repercussions have happened to any staff members of WIV or WCDC, which would be strange if China believed they were the source of this massive embarrassment to China.
A lab leak source could still have happened. I'd like some evidence as to how the multiple lineages were introduced (there and not elsewhere), though. I'm definitely leaning quite strongly towards zoonosis, though, but am amenable to evidence the other way.
Regardless, work to both eliminate live animal markets and to tighten up biosafety in all labs should go forwards.
Another point....they are extremely proactive at going out into the community & observing kids in unorganised settings like football cages and then getting them into the formalised programmes. They aren't just waiting to see a kid at 13-14-15 playing for a local team.
I think most other sports like cricket rely on selecting from those already established within club cricket. Its something that Ebony-Rainford Brent has tried to address with a scheme, but it drop in the ocean compared to the way football is able to hoover up a wide net of atheletical gifted kids where spending a few £100k a year on people scouting / training kids is nothing if you get one player makes it to the first team.
Outside T20 & Test cricket, there is no money in cricket. County cricketers are on buttons. It a crap occupation if you are an average county player. Where as even lower league football pros are way above average wages these days.
If we can't get lazy, pop-culture puns going on this site then what is the world coming to?
I shifted from 14 stone 6 (fat) to about 12 stone 12 (just about right) over several months. As you are meant to do
After that whenever I went over 13 stone I simply fasted - ate nothing - til I was back to 12 stone 12. Worked like a dream. For 15 years!
The pandemic screwed it all up and I’ve never - psychologically - been able to get back down to the magic 12 stone 12. I get too bored
So my hope is I can use ozempic to give me that crucial weight loss to 12 12, then I can revert to my old technique
Tho on the advice of @Miklosvar I have just googled ozempic and apparently it makes thousands of people shit themselves
Oh
“Ozempic is amazing. It really works”
So, why not
Interfering with chemical signalling in the brain is not usually without long term consequences.
@faisalislam
NEW
Chancellor Jeremy Hunt in Brussels to sign financial services cooperation Memorandum of Understanding with EU, one of the fruits of the Windsor Agreement over NI Brexit rules…
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1673621357345611779
But I welcome this alignment with the EU, it is better than nothing.
The early developments in Italian aviation were pretty mad.
Apparently the test pilot looped Caproni's WWI heavy bomber prototype.
That would seem to leave two options ; either there's a large-scale misinformation campaign by senior people in the U.S. to cover up some sort of very powerful earth technology, or something else..
John Major outlines what he believes to be the reason for Margaret Thatcher's downfall.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWilajNRotU
My father died 25 years ago leaving my brother and me his house and a patch of land (several acres afaIcr including a small loch). We sold the house and the land a couple of years later. The buyer now wants to build holiday homes on that land and has discovered that it was not included in the sale, and my father's estate still holds title to the land. He appears to think that our solicitors were at fault so should sort this out foc, though it seems to me his solicitor should also have done due diligence at that point.
Since we had thought that the land was disposed of at the time, morally I guess we should do what we can to resolve the current situation on that assumption, otoh my brother and I are currently the legal landowners. The buyer originally paid a fraction of the current value of house and land (10% I'd very roughly guess) and now wants to develop it commercially, so it's not as if we're standing in the way of an orphanage or donkey sanctuary. Should I be asking for a payment to transfer ownership of the land to the buyer?
When I got back from my year abroad and realised I was fat, I started calorie restriction with absolute shit, frozen processed rubbish, which I love, to get me to the end of the day. I didn't care if I was hungry when I could look forward to a spam sarnie (four slices, mind) with a cheese single. Then I got sick of that, learned to cook and slowly started on meal prepping more healthy stuff and portioning it out etc (it's a ball ache). I kept that up for years, it was still all calorie counted, and it worked.
Then COVID came and fucked any motivation and the weight piled back on. I think what helped get me back into those habits, psychologically, is that I ended up rebuilding them, more or less, the exact same way and in the same order as I'd built them in the first place. I'll let you know after the next pandemic if my cod psychology works out!
Morally I think its unreasonable to get extra money for the land itself, considering you agree that you had sold it.
What the buyer wants to do with their own land, whether it be commercial or orphanage, doesn't morally enter into it in my eyes.
It does have to be said that there is a cultural danger of thinking that because the populist right are nowadays often the most open to these kind of claims, in the twenty-first century and among the broader public, they must be wrong.
But be generous in how much you ask. And have a chat with your solicitor first.
https://twitter.com/David_Ornstein/status/1673636610942943232
para 2 - I don't claim to understand the science, but there's lots of scientists who say the furin cleavage site is actually rather fishy. And is anyone denying that whatever emerged from the lab had its ultimate origins in the wild?
"as most large Chinese cities have at least one lab working on understanding bat coronaviruses, we'd have a co-located potential lab source in most large Chinese cities" - GLARING fallacy, and the sort of thing which discredits lab leak debunkers generally. Say I hear that someone has died violently in Los Angeles, and I sagely say: prolly shot, there's lots of guns in LA, how does it weaken my argument to say that there's lots of guns in all other US cities?
para 3 - AOEINEOA
3 and 4 are your best points, but nobody (sane) is saying the lab leak theory is for certain.
para 5 is batshit. If you are trying to cover up an error by an employee, disciplining him for the error is not the brightest idea in the world. It is an affirmation that the error happened.
This is getting boring. Either theory is distinctly possible and we will never know the answer for certain. But what's striking is that it is the *attacks* on the lab leak theory which almost invariably contain logical howlers as in paras 2, 3 and 5 above.
Morally, if all parties agreed and were clear at the time and paperwork wrong, then yes he has a moral claim, but should still cover your admin and legal costs to resolve.
To be brutally honest, not sure what I would do though, the world economy is not the most moral of places so would depend on circumstances and could be from free of charge to nominal contribution to a charity to building the holiday homes myself....