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This is why the Tories are set to get hammered – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,217
edited July 2023 in General
This is why the Tories are set to get hammered – politicalbetting.com

I mean, this is quite striking, isn’t it? pic.twitter.com/KUVtaNueBi

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,468
    First.

    Unlike most of the people waiting for treatment.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Looks like a crooked grin.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,302
    Putin will apparently be making a series of announcements this evening.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    edited June 2023
    Actually that chart shows little difference overall in NHS waiting times between recent Labour or Tory governments, except they were a bit lower under Labour in 2009-10 and are a bit higher under the Conservatives now (albeit Covid added to the problem).

    Well done for going private though, the more higher income people take out private health insurance and use private hospitals, the less the pressure on the NHS. Best wishes for your recovery after your op.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769
    The Tories have been getting hammered for yonks. Heck, they even came up with a new euphemism for it - 'having a works meeting.'
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    HYUFD said:

    Actually that chart shows little difference overall in NHS waiting times between recent Labour or Tory governments, except they were a bit lower under Labour in 2009-10 and are a bit higher under the Conservatives now (albeit Covid added to the problem).

    Well done for going private though, the more higher income people take out private health insurance and use private hospitals, the less the pressure on the NHS. Best wishes for your recovery after your op.

    "Actually"
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,302

    Putin will apparently be making a series of announcements this evening.

    There's an outside chance he'll say "mission accomplished" and withdraw from Ukraine (at least to the pre-Feb 2022 borders).
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769

    Putin will apparently be making a series of announcements this evening.

    (Clears throat.)

    My fellow Russians.

    Today I give you the facts as they really are:

    1) cars run on gravy
    2) Bananas are marsupials
    3) Salmon live in trees and eat pencils
    4) Russia is winning the war in Ukraine!

    (cue the music)
    https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x64bid6
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769

    HYUFD said:

    Actually that chart shows little difference overall in NHS waiting times between recent Labour or Tory governments, except they were a bit lower under Labour in 2009-10 and are a bit higher under the Conservatives now (albeit Covid added to the problem).

    This is one of the maddest comments you have ever made.
    I don't think he understands the concept of indices.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    HYUFD said:

    Actually that chart shows little difference overall in NHS waiting times between recent Labour or Tory governments, except they were a bit lower under Labour in 2009-10 and are a bit higher under the Conservatives now (albeit Covid added to the problem).

    Well done for going private though, the more higher income people take out private health insurance and use private hospitals, the less the pressure on the NHS. Best wishes for your recovery after your op.

    I don't know where you learned maths but trebling is not "a bit" and being north of the worst in 30 years and accelerating is not "little difference".

    Still, well done on congratulating OGH for going private, I am sure that has aided his recovery and eased the pain in his wallet no end.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    HYUFD said:

    Actually that chart shows little difference overall in NHS waiting times between recent Labour or Tory governments, except they were a bit lower under Labour in 2009-10 and are a bit higher under the Conservatives now (albeit Covid added to the problem).

    This is one of the maddest comments you have ever made.
    Really? ("Actually"?)

    Personally think Pres. Zelenskyy MIGHT beg to differ IF he wasn't otherwise occupied (in more ways than one).
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769

    HYUFD said:

    Actually that chart shows little difference overall in NHS waiting times between recent Labour or Tory governments, except they were a bit lower under Labour in 2009-10 and are a bit higher under the Conservatives now (albeit Covid added to the problem).

    Well done for going private though, the more higher income people take out private health insurance and use private hospitals, the less the pressure on the NHS. Best wishes for your recovery after your op.

    When you say "a bit lower" did you mean that the number of people waiting halved under Labour and had doubled again before Covid happened and have spun out of control since? It's fair to talk about the cost-benefit calculation, but those aren't little differences.

    When did you manage to opt out of learning maths?
    It's just a flesh wound.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,914
    ydoethur said:

    Putin will apparently be making a series of announcements this evening.

    (Clears throat.)

    My fellow Russians.

    Today I give you the facts as they really are:

    1) cars run on gravy
    2) Bananas are marsupials
    3) Salmon live in trees and eat pencils
    4) Russia is winning the war in Ukraine!

    (cue the music)
    https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x64bid6
    Point 1 not strictly wrong, for the Oligarchy trains rather than cars do indeed run on gravy
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,774
    HYUFD said:

    Actually that chart shows little difference overall in waiting times between recent Labour or Tory governments, except they were a bit lower under Labour in 2009-10 and are a bit higher under the Conservatives now (albeit Covid added to the problem).

    Well done for going private though, the more higher income people take out private health insurance and use private hospitals, the less the pressure on the NHS. Best wishes for your recovery after your op.

    Going private does not release consultants to the NHS. Most of them work in the NHS already. What it does is channel their work into the private sector. So the pressure on the NHS remains the same. It is, frankly, queue-jumping. I admit to doing so myself recently in the face of long waiting times, for cataract.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    edited June 2023

    HYUFD said:

    Actually that chart shows little difference overall in NHS waiting times between recent Labour or Tory governments, except they were a bit lower under Labour in 2009-10 and are a bit higher under the Conservatives now (albeit Covid added to the problem).

    Well done for going private though, the more higher income people take out private health insurance and use private hospitals, the less the pressure on the NHS. Best wishes for your recovery after your op.

    When you say "a bit lower" did you mean that the number of people waiting halved under Labour and had doubled again before Covid happened and have spun out of control since? It's fair to talk about the cost-benefit calculation, but those aren't little differences.

    When did you manage to opt out of learning maths?
    Under Labour from 1997 to 2005 and the Tories from pre 1990 to 1997 waiting lists were in the 150 to 250 range.

    Waiting lists under Labour from 2005 to 2010 and the Tories from 2010 to 2020 were in roughly the 100 to 200 range.

    Only Covid since 2020 has taken waiting lists to 250 to 300 in the range
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,655
    edited June 2023

    Putin will apparently be making a series of announcements this evening.

    There's an outside chance he'll say "mission accomplished" and withdraw from Ukraine (at least to the pre-Feb 2022 borders).
    Very outside, surely.

    (I hope you are right, obviously. But I would have thought that that unilateral retreat means no negotiating leverage.)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Actually that chart shows little difference overall in NHS waiting times between recent Labour or Tory governments, except they were a bit lower under Labour in 2009-10 and are a bit higher under the Conservatives now (albeit Covid added to the problem).

    Well done for going private though, the more higher income people take out private health insurance and use private hospitals, the less the pressure on the NHS. Best wishes for your recovery after your op.

    When you say "a bit lower" did you mean that the number of people waiting halved under Labour and had doubled again before Covid happened and have spun out of control since? It's fair to talk about the cost-benefit calculation, but those aren't little differences.

    When did you manage to opt out of learning maths?
    Under Labour from 1997 to 2005 and the Tories from pre 1990 to 1997 waiting lists were in the 150 to 250 range.

    Waiting lists under Labour from 2005 to 2010 and the Tories from 2010 to 2020 were in roughly the 100 to 200 range.

    Only Covid since 2020 has taken waiting lists to 250 to 300 in the range
    You have got to admire somebody who can say so much that is not technically wrong and yet entirely miss the point.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,750

    Putin will apparently be making a series of announcements this evening.

    It's not exactly prime-time in Russia, is it, unless it's very imminent?
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,842
    This thread is Lib Dem bar chart stuff. Poor, v poor...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,256
    edited June 2023
    RIP John Goodenough, at the age of 100.
    https://twitter.com/QuantaMagazine/status/1673404326109396992

    Nobel laureate in 2019.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,655

    Putin will apparently be making a series of announcements this evening.

    It's not exactly prime-time in Russia, is it, unless it's very imminent?
    It's 10pm in Moscow, so I think he's probably missed prime time.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Actually that chart shows little difference overall in NHS waiting times between recent Labour or Tory governments, except they were a bit lower under Labour in 2009-10 and are a bit higher under the Conservatives now (albeit Covid added to the problem).

    Well done for going private though, the more higher income people take out private health insurance and use private hospitals, the less the pressure on the NHS. Best wishes for your recovery after your op.

    I don't know where you learned maths but trebling is not "a bit" and being north of the worst in 30 years and accelerating is not "little difference".

    Still, well done on congratulating OGH for going private, I am sure that has aided his recovery and eased the pain in his wallet no end.
    What Australia does is charge higher income individuals a surcharge of 1% to 1.5% of income if they do not take out private health insurance.

    The Tories should follow the example of the Coalition Howard government in Australia in 1997 which introduced that so more can follow the excellent example of OGH, go private and cut pressure on the NHS.

    The Howard government in 1999 also contributed up to 30% of the private health insurance premium of people with their Medicare universal health coverage
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987

    This thread is Lib Dem bar chart stuff. Poor, v poor...

    Well it was written by a LD!
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Actually that chart shows little difference overall in NHS waiting times between recent Labour or Tory governments, except they were a bit lower under Labour in 2009-10 and are a bit higher under the Conservatives now (albeit Covid added to the problem).

    Well done for going private though, the more higher income people take out private health insurance and use private hospitals, the less the pressure on the NHS. Best wishes for your recovery after your op.

    When you say "a bit lower" did you mean that the number of people waiting halved under Labour and had doubled again before Covid happened and have spun out of control since? It's fair to talk about the cost-benefit calculation, but those aren't little differences.

    When did you manage to opt out of learning maths?
    Under Labour from 1997 to 2005 and the Tories from pre 1990 to 1997 waiting lists were in the 150 to 250 range.

    Waiting lists under Labour from 2005 to 2010 and the Tories from 2010 to 2020 were in roughly the 100 to 200 range.

    Only Covid since 2020 has taken waiting lists to 250 to 300 in the range
    Waiting lists rose consistently over the course of the current and previous Conservative administrations, and fell consistently under the intervening Labour administration. This isn't difficult.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769
    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Actually that chart shows little difference overall in NHS waiting times between recent Labour or Tory governments, except they were a bit lower under Labour in 2009-10 and are a bit higher under the Conservatives now (albeit Covid added to the problem).

    Well done for going private though, the more higher income people take out private health insurance and use private hospitals, the less the pressure on the NHS. Best wishes for your recovery after your op.

    I don't know where you learned maths but trebling is not "a bit" and being north of the worst in 30 years and accelerating is not "little difference".

    Still, well done on congratulating OGH for going private, I am sure that has aided his recovery and eased the pain in his wallet no end.
    What Australia does is charge higher income individuals a surcharge of 1% to 1.5% of income if they do not take out private health insurance.

    The Tories should follow the example of the Coalition Howard government in Australia in 1997 which introduced that so more can follow the excellent example of OGH, go private and cut pressure on the NHS.

    The Howard government in 1999 also contributed up to 30% of the private health insurance premium of people with their Medicare universal health coverage
    Keir Starmer is actually praying they take this advice.

    It would be the most brutal defeat of a governing, or recently governing, party since Baldwin managed to reduce Labour from 287 MPs to 50 in 1931.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,302
    Nigelb said:

    RIP John Goodenough, at the age of 100.
    https://twitter.com/QuantaMagazine/status/1673404326109396992

    Nobel laureate in 2019.

    Imagine transcript of the Nobel committee meeting: "If it's Goodenough for you, it's Goodenough for me."
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,126
    rcs1000 said:

    Putin will apparently be making a series of announcements this evening.

    It's not exactly prime-time in Russia, is it, unless it's very imminent?
    It's 10pm in Moscow, so I think he's probably missed prime time.
    It's 11 in fact, some rubbish about a closer union between BY and RUS is a good guess.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Actually that chart shows little difference overall in NHS waiting times between recent Labour or Tory governments, except they were a bit lower under Labour in 2009-10 and are a bit higher under the Conservatives now (albeit Covid added to the problem).

    Well done for going private though, the more higher income people take out private health insurance and use private hospitals, the less the pressure on the NHS. Best wishes for your recovery after your op.

    I don't know where you learned maths but trebling is not "a bit" and being north of the worst in 30 years and accelerating is not "little difference".

    Still, well done on congratulating OGH for going private, I am sure that has aided his recovery and eased the pain in his wallet no end.
    What Australia does is charge higher income individuals a surcharge of 1% to 1.5% of income if they do not take out private health insurance.

    The Tories should follow the example of the Coalition Howard government in Australia in 1997 which introduced that so more can follow the excellent example of OGH, go private and cut pressure on the NHS.

    The Howard government in 1999 also contributed up to 30% of the private health insurance premium of people with their Medicare universal health coverage
    Keir Starmer is actually praying they take this advice.

    It would be the most brutal defeat of a governing, or recently governing, party since Baldwin managed to reduce Labour from 287 MPs to 50 in 1931.
    It got the Howard government re elected.

    There is little point being a Conservative if you don't pursue more conservative policies is there? Conservatives believe in choice in public services with private options too, in healthcare as much as anything else
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Actually that chart shows little difference overall in NHS waiting times between recent Labour or Tory governments, except they were a bit lower under Labour in 2009-10 and are a bit higher under the Conservatives now (albeit Covid added to the problem).

    Well done for going private though, the more higher income people take out private health insurance and use private hospitals, the less the pressure on the NHS. Best wishes for your recovery after your op.

    When you say "a bit lower" did you mean that the number of people waiting halved under Labour and had doubled again before Covid happened and have spun out of control since? It's fair to talk about the cost-benefit calculation, but those aren't little differences.

    When did you manage to opt out of learning maths?
    Under Labour from 1997 to 2005 and the Tories from pre 1990 to 1997 waiting lists were in the 150 to 250 range.

    Waiting lists under Labour from 2005 to 2010 and the Tories from 2010 to 2020 were in roughly the 100 to 200 range.

    Only Covid since 2020 has taken waiting lists to 250 to 300 in the range
    You have got to admire somebody who can say so much that is not technically wrong and yet entirely miss the point.
    Advanced degree in Applied Sophistry?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Actually that chart shows little difference overall in NHS waiting times between recent Labour or Tory governments, except they were a bit lower under Labour in 2009-10 and are a bit higher under the Conservatives now (albeit Covid added to the problem).

    Well done for going private though, the more higher income people take out private health insurance and use private hospitals, the less the pressure on the NHS. Best wishes for your recovery after your op.

    I don't know where you learned maths but trebling is not "a bit" and being north of the worst in 30 years and accelerating is not "little difference".

    Still, well done on congratulating OGH for going private, I am sure that has aided his recovery and eased the pain in his wallet no end.
    What Australia does is charge higher income individuals a surcharge of 1% to 1.5% of income if they do not take out private health insurance.

    The Tories should follow the example of the Coalition Howard government in Australia in 1997 which introduced that so more can follow the excellent example of OGH, go private and cut pressure on the NHS.

    The Howard government in 1999 also contributed up to 30% of the private health insurance premium of people with their Medicare universal health coverage
    Keir Starmer is actually praying they take this advice.

    It would be the most brutal defeat of a governing, or recently governing, party since Baldwin managed to reduce Labour from 287 MPs to 50 in 1931.
    It got the Howard government re elected.

    There is little point being a Conservative if you don't pursue more conservative policies is there? Conservatives believe in choice in public services with private options too, in healthcare as much as anything else
    I know the weather's been a bit warm recently, but I can assure you we are not in Australia.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,592
    Looks like the Tory London Mayoral decision is down to 2 candidates

    https://twitter.com/_adamcherry_/status/1673404639876640771

    Daniel Korski was in the middle of a London mayoral hustings when the Times story dropped. I'm told his aide signalled him over to deliver the bad news. He left.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,149

    This thread is Lib Dem bar chart stuff. Poor, v poor...

    Can't be a Lib Dem barchart. If it were, it would have an arrow labelled "Can't get treatment here" or a caption saying "It's a two horsemen of the apocalypse race."
    Or "NHS winning here"
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,149

    This thread is Lib Dem bar chart stuff. Poor, v poor...

    Other betting sites are available...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,148
    ydoethur said:

    Putin will apparently be making a series of announcements this evening.

    (Clears throat.)

    My fellow Russians.

    Today I give you the facts as they really are:

    1) cars run on gravy
    2) Bananas are marsupials
    3) Salmon live in trees and eat pencils
    4) Russia is winning the war in Ukraine!

    (cue the music)
    https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x64bid6
    First 3 points sound like a sound manifesto.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    HYUFD said:

    Actually that chart shows little difference overall in NHS waiting times between recent Labour or Tory governments, except they were a bit lower under Labour in 2009-10 and are a bit higher under the Conservatives now (albeit Covid added to the problem).

    Well done for going private though, the more higher income people take out private health insurance and use private hospitals, the less the pressure on the NHS. Best wishes for your recovery after your op.

    When you say "a bit lower" did you mean that the number of people waiting halved under Labour and had doubled again before Covid happened and have spun out of control since? It's fair to talk about the cost-benefit calculation, but those aren't little differences.

    When did you manage to opt out of learning maths?
    Year 3?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,655
    Cicero said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Putin will apparently be making a series of announcements this evening.

    It's not exactly prime-time in Russia, is it, unless it's very imminent?
    It's 10pm in Moscow, so I think he's probably missed prime time.
    It's 11 in fact, some rubbish about a closer union between BY and RUS is a good guess.
    Are you calling Google a liar:


  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,256
    Meet Tucker Carlson’s replacement at Fox.
    https://twitter.com/aliciasadowski6/status/1673367042483798029
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779
    Striking in that graph how much worse things got soon after Boris Johnson took over!
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    eek said:

    Looks like the Tory London Mayoral decision is down to 2 candidates

    https://twitter.com/_adamcherry_/status/1673404639876640771

    Daniel Korski was in the middle of a London mayoral hustings when the Times story dropped. I'm told his aide signalled him over to deliver the bad news. He left.

    What, pray tell, IS the Times story?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,149
    ydoethur said:

    Putin will apparently be making a series of announcements this evening.

    (Clears throat.)

    My fellow Russians.

    Today I give you the facts as they really are:

    1) cars run on gravy
    2) Bananas are marsupials
    3) Salmon live in trees and eat pencils
    4) Russia is winning the war in Ukraine!

    (cue the music)
    https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x64bid6
    "Excellent! Sensible policies for a happier Russia!"
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,900
    Vote Labour.
  • Putin talking now


    Putin begins his speech by "welcoming the coming together of society" - claiming Russia is "united" in the face of "this danger".

    Then blames the West and the "neo-Nazis" in Kyiv.

    Claims the "overwhelming majority of Wagner are also Patriots" - praises them for "turning back".

    Putin claims the "organisers of the rebellion will be brought to justice"... So no pardon for Prigozhin, as was promised.

    Calls on Wagner fighters to go back to their homes.

    The big headline from Putin's speech - no immunity for Prigozhin (and presumably Utkin) - they're going to be "brought to justice".

    https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1673409419730644996
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,149

    eek said:

    Looks like the Tory London Mayoral decision is down to 2 candidates

    https://twitter.com/_adamcherry_/status/1673404639876640771

    Daniel Korski was in the middle of a London mayoral hustings when the Times story dropped. I'm told his aide signalled him over to deliver the bad news. He left.

    What, pray tell, IS the Times story?
    He's been accused of groping somone!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769

    eek said:

    Looks like the Tory London Mayoral decision is down to 2 candidates

    https://twitter.com/_adamcherry_/status/1673404639876640771

    Daniel Korski was in the middle of a London mayoral hustings when the Times story dropped. I'm told his aide signalled him over to deliver the bad news. He left.

    What, pray tell, IS the Times story?
    He's been accused of groping somone!
    https://www.cityam.com/tory-mayor-candidate-denies-groping-allegation-in-strongest-possible-terms/
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,468
    eek said:

    Looks like the Tory London Mayoral decision is down to 2 candidates

    https://twitter.com/_adamcherry_/status/1673404639876640771

    Daniel Korski was in the middle of a London mayoral hustings when the Times story dropped. I'm told his aide signalled him over to deliver the bad news. He left.

    London Conservatives put Steve Norris and Boris Johnson before the electorate, and would have had Jeffrey Archer if they could. Is scandalous behaviour on the person spec as a "not essential but desirable" or something?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Putin talking now


    Putin begins his speech by "welcoming the coming together of society" - claiming Russia is "united" in the face of "this danger".

    Then blames the West and the "neo-Nazis" in Kyiv.

    Claims the "overwhelming majority of Wagner are also Patriots" - praises them for "turning back".

    Putin claims the "organisers of the rebellion will be brought to justice"... So no pardon for Prigozhin, as was promised.

    Calls on Wagner fighters to go back to their homes.

    The big headline from Putin's speech - no immunity for Prigozhin (and presumably Utkin) - they're going to be "brought to justice".

    https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1673409419730644996

    Making Russia Great Again!
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,774
     
    Chris said:

    Striking in that graph how much worse things got soon after Boris Johnson took over!

    Err no, there was a sharpish drop until the pandemic took over

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    edited June 2023
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Actually that chart shows little difference overall in NHS waiting times between recent Labour or Tory governments, except they were a bit lower under Labour in 2009-10 and are a bit higher under the Conservatives now (albeit Covid added to the problem).

    Well done for going private though, the more higher income people take out private health insurance and use private hospitals, the less the pressure on the NHS. Best wishes for your recovery after your op.

    I don't know where you learned maths but trebling is not "a bit" and being north of the worst in 30 years and accelerating is not "little difference".

    Still, well done on congratulating OGH for going private, I am sure that has aided his recovery and eased the pain in his wallet no end.
    What Australia does is charge higher income individuals a surcharge of 1% to 1.5% of income if they do not take out private health insurance.

    The Tories should follow the example of the Coalition Howard government in Australia in 1997 which introduced that so more can follow the excellent example of OGH, go private and cut pressure on the NHS.

    The Howard government in 1999 also contributed up to 30% of the private health insurance premium of people with their Medicare universal health coverage
    Keir Starmer is actually praying they take this advice.

    It would be the most brutal defeat of a governing, or recently governing, party since Baldwin managed to reduce Labour from 287 MPs to 50 in 1931.
    It got the Howard government re elected.

    There is little point being a Conservative if you don't pursue more conservative policies is there? Conservatives believe in choice in public services with private options too, in healthcare as much as anything else
    I know the weather's been a bit warm recently, but I can assure you we are not in Australia.
    Culturally we are probably closer to Australia than any other nation on earth except maybe New Zealand.

    There is also no point the Tories fighting a battle on who will spend more on the NHS, as Labour will always win it as they are more willing to raise tax higher to pay for it.

    The Tories should instead shift the argument to encouraging patient choice in healthcare too
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779
    geoffw said:

     

    Chris said:

    Striking in that graph how much worse things got soon after Boris Johnson took over!

    Err no, there was a sharpish drop until the pandemic took over

    Yes, I was wondering who'd be the first to spot that ...
  • eekeek Posts: 28,592

    eek said:

    Looks like the Tory London Mayoral decision is down to 2 candidates

    https://twitter.com/_adamcherry_/status/1673404639876640771

    Daniel Korski was in the middle of a London mayoral hustings when the Times story dropped. I'm told his aide signalled him over to deliver the bad news. He left.

    What, pray tell, IS the Times story?
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/daisy-goodwin-why-im-naming-the-man-who-groped-me-at-no-10-hvrlt2p6r

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    edited June 2023

    eek said:

    Looks like the Tory London Mayoral decision is down to 2 candidates

    https://twitter.com/_adamcherry_/status/1673404639876640771

    Daniel Korski was in the middle of a London mayoral hustings when the Times story dropped. I'm told his aide signalled him over to deliver the bad news. He left.

    London Conservatives put Steve Norris and Boris Johnson before the electorate, and would have had Jeffrey Archer if they could. Is scandalous behaviour on the person spec as a "not essential but desirable" or something?
    At least people had heard of Boris and Archer, who has heard of these 3 (now likely 2?) Even Norris and Zac Goldsmith and Shaun Bailey were better known.

    Of the last 2 Susan Hall is probably the best though, at least she has held elected office for the party in the London Assembly, the other candidate has never even stood for the party that I can see
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,126
    rcs1000 said:

    Cicero said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Putin will apparently be making a series of announcements this evening.

    It's not exactly prime-time in Russia, is it, unless it's very imminent?
    It's 10pm in Moscow, so I think he's probably missed prime time.
    It's 11 in fact, some rubbish about a closer union between BY and RUS is a good guess.
    Are you calling Google a liar:


    My bad. They did not put their clocks forward
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,393
    edited June 2023
    geoffw said:

     

    Chris said:

    Striking in that graph how much worse things got soon after Boris Johnson took over!

    Err no, there was a sharpish drop until the pandemic took over

    Wrong way round. Early pandemic lockdown = fewer Gp referrals = fewer hospital assessments = fewer new patients on the waiting list. The scale is too coarse, to be sure.

    Also: covid deaths = some folk off the waiting list.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,774
    Chris said:

    geoffw said:

     

    Chris said:

    Striking in that graph how much worse things got soon after Boris Johnson took over!

    Err no, there was a sharpish drop until the pandemic took over

    Yes, I was wondering who'd be the first to spot that ...
    Your MO

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,302

    Putin talking now


    Putin begins his speech by "welcoming the coming together of society" - claiming Russia is "united" in the face of "this danger".

    Then blames the West and the "neo-Nazis" in Kyiv.

    Claims the "overwhelming majority of Wagner are also Patriots" - praises them for "turning back".

    Putin claims the "organisers of the rebellion will be brought to justice"... So no pardon for Prigozhin, as was promised.

    Calls on Wagner fighters to go back to their homes.

    The big headline from Putin's speech - no immunity for Prigozhin (and presumably Utkin) - they're going to be "brought to justice".

    https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1673409419730644996

    Making Russia Great Again!
    Yes, it's Clintonian...

    Our country has fallen so far, so fast, that just a few months ago the Japanese Prime Minister actually said he felt "sympathy" for the United States. Sympathy! When I am your President, the rest, the rest of the world won't look down on us with pity but up to us with respect again.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,393
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Actually that chart shows little difference overall in NHS waiting times between recent Labour or Tory governments, except they were a bit lower under Labour in 2009-10 and are a bit higher under the Conservatives now (albeit Covid added to the problem).

    Well done for going private though, the more higher income people take out private health insurance and use private hospitals, the less the pressure on the NHS. Best wishes for your recovery after your op.

    I don't know where you learned maths but trebling is not "a bit" and being north of the worst in 30 years and accelerating is not "little difference".

    Still, well done on congratulating OGH for going private, I am sure that has aided his recovery and eased the pain in his wallet no end.
    What Australia does is charge higher income individuals a surcharge of 1% to 1.5% of income if they do not take out private health insurance.

    The Tories should follow the example of the Coalition Howard government in Australia in 1997 which introduced that so more can follow the excellent example of OGH, go private and cut pressure on the NHS.

    The Howard government in 1999 also contributed up to 30% of the private health insurance premium of people with their Medicare universal health coverage
    Keir Starmer is actually praying they take this advice.

    It would be the most brutal defeat of a governing, or recently governing, party since Baldwin managed to reduce Labour from 287 MPs to 50 in 1931.
    It got the Howard government re elected.

    There is little point being a Conservative if you don't pursue more conservative policies is there? Conservatives believe in choice in public services with private options too, in healthcare as much as anything else
    I know the weather's been a bit warm recently, but I can assure you we are not in Australia.
    Culturally we are probably closer to Australia than any other nation on earth except maybe New Zealand.

    There is also no point the Tories fighting a battle on who will spend more on the NHS, as Labour will always win it as they are more willing to raise tax higher to pay for it.

    The Tories should instead shift the argument to encouraging patient choice in healthcare too
    "culturally"

    Don't you mean racially? But it isn't particularly true. Just look at Ireland.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,900
    Carnyx said:

    geoffw said:

     

    Chris said:

    Striking in that graph how much worse things got soon after Boris Johnson took over!

    Err no, there was a sharpish drop until the pandemic took over

    Wrong way round. Early pandemic lockdown = fewer Gp referrals = fewer hospital assessments = fewer new patients on the waiting list. The scale is too coarse, to be sure.

    Also: covid deaths = some folk off the waiting list.
    Certainly that big drop aligns exactly with "2020" in the graph, ie it is almost certainly Q1 2020.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591

    First.

    Unlike most of the people waiting for treatment.

    Well, naturally, only one of them could be first.

    But after a lifetime of being told the NHS is about to collapse, it actually seems closer to being true than it ever has.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,393

    Carnyx said:

    geoffw said:

     

    Chris said:

    Striking in that graph how much worse things got soon after Boris Johnson took over!

    Err no, there was a sharpish drop until the pandemic took over

    Wrong way round. Early pandemic lockdown = fewer Gp referrals = fewer hospital assessments = fewer new patients on the waiting list. The scale is too coarse, to be sure.

    Also: covid deaths = some folk off the waiting list.
    Certainly that big drop aligns exactly with "2020" in the graph, ie it is almost certainly Q1 2020.
    And the abscissa and ordinate aren't at zero, so that drop isn't as big as it looks. Even doing without ops for a good chuink of a year would reduce any waiting list by say 2-5% (depending on age distribution, spontaneous remission, and deaths from the problem in question and from covid and other things)>
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    I hope he goes with a Theresa May approach. What's Russian for 'Nothing has changed'.

    Vladimir Putin will "make a number of important announcements tonight", according to Dmitry Peskov, Putin's spokesman.
    https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1673397962020364307
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Actually that chart shows little difference overall in NHS waiting times between recent Labour or Tory governments, except they were a bit lower under Labour in 2009-10 and are a bit higher under the Conservatives now (albeit Covid added to the problem).

    Well done for going private though, the more higher income people take out private health insurance and use private hospitals, the less the pressure on the NHS. Best wishes for your recovery after your op.

    I don't know where you learned maths but trebling is not "a bit" and being north of the worst in 30 years and accelerating is not "little difference".

    Still, well done on congratulating OGH for going private, I am sure that has aided his recovery and eased the pain in his wallet no end.
    What Australia does is charge higher income individuals a surcharge of 1% to 1.5% of income if they do not take out private health insurance.

    The Tories should follow the example of the Coalition Howard government in Australia in 1997 which introduced that so more can follow the excellent example of OGH, go private and cut pressure on the NHS.

    The Howard government in 1999 also contributed up to 30% of the private health insurance premium of people with their Medicare universal health coverage
    Keir Starmer is actually praying they take this advice.

    It would be the most brutal defeat of a governing, or recently governing, party since Baldwin managed to reduce Labour from 287 MPs to 50 in 1931.
    It got the Howard government re elected.

    There is little point being a Conservative if you don't pursue more conservative policies is there? Conservatives believe in choice in public services with private options too, in healthcare as much as anything else
    I know the weather's been a bit warm recently, but I can assure you we are not in Australia.
    Culturally we are probably closer to Australia than any other nation on earth except maybe New Zealand.

    There is also no point the Tories fighting a battle on who will spend more on the NHS, as Labour will always win it as they are more willing to raise tax higher to pay for it.

    The Tories should instead shift the argument to encouraging patient choice in healthcare too
    "culturally"

    Don't you mean racially? But it isn't particularly true. Just look at Ireland.
    Australia and New Zealand are mainly of British origin and Protestant heritage.

    The Republic of Ireland is of Celtic origin mainly and Roman Catholic heritage.

    We also still share the King with Australia and New Zealand, we don't now with the Republic of Ireland.

    We got trade deals with Australia and NZ post Brexit, the Republic of Ireland was pretty obstructive to our getting an EU trade deal unless on their terms
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,774
    Carnyx said:

    geoffw said:

     

    Chris said:

    Striking in that graph how much worse things got soon after Boris Johnson took over!

    Err no, there was a sharpish drop until the pandemic took over

    Wrong way round. Early pandemic lockdown = fewer Gp referrals = fewer hospital assessments = fewer new patients on the waiting list. The scale is too coarse, to be sure.

    Also: covid deaths = some folk off the waiting list.
    Not wrong way round. March 2020 was when the first lockdown happened. Look at the graph again.

  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,927
    In essence, Putin’s important announcement:

    There wasn’t ever a threat. I’d have smashed Wagner. None of us were nervous at all, despite my nervy statement over the weekend. But I’ve made a deal with Wagner I intend to keep. You know, instead of smashing them like I could so easily do. But they can go to Belarus. But we’re all very united. So that’s good.

    That one wont be filed under ‘coherent.’
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Putin talking now


    Putin begins his speech by "welcoming the coming together of society" - claiming Russia is "united" in the face of "this danger".

    Then blames the West and the "neo-Nazis" in Kyiv.

    Claims the "overwhelming majority of Wagner are also Patriots" - praises them for "turning back".

    Putin claims the "organisers of the rebellion will be brought to justice"... So no pardon for Prigozhin, as was promised.

    Calls on Wagner fighters to go back to their homes.

    The big headline from Putin's speech - no immunity for Prigozhin (and presumably Utkin) - they're going to be "brought to justice".

    https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1673409419730644996

    Making Russia Great Again!
    Yes, it's Clintonian...

    Our country has fallen so far, so fast, that just a few months ago the Japanese Prime Minister actually said he felt "sympathy" for the United States. Sympathy! When I am your President, the rest, the rest of the world won't look down on us with pity but up to us with respect again.
    What the fuck is relationship between that quote, and Putin's most recent bilge pumping?

    Besides pro-Trump sophistry, that is?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,914
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Actually that chart shows little difference overall in NHS waiting times between recent Labour or Tory governments, except they were a bit lower under Labour in 2009-10 and are a bit higher under the Conservatives now (albeit Covid added to the problem).

    Well done for going private though, the more higher income people take out private health insurance and use private hospitals, the less the pressure on the NHS. Best wishes for your recovery after your op.

    I don't know where you learned maths but trebling is not "a bit" and being north of the worst in 30 years and accelerating is not "little difference".

    Still, well done on congratulating OGH for going private, I am sure that has aided his recovery and eased the pain in his wallet no end.
    What Australia does is charge higher income individuals a surcharge of 1% to 1.5% of income if they do not take out private health insurance.

    The Tories should follow the example of the Coalition Howard government in Australia in 1997 which introduced that so more can follow the excellent example of OGH, go private and cut pressure on the NHS.

    The Howard government in 1999 also contributed up to 30% of the private health insurance premium of people with their Medicare universal health coverage
    Keir Starmer is actually praying they take this advice.

    It would be the most brutal defeat of a governing, or recently governing, party since Baldwin managed to reduce Labour from 287 MPs to 50 in 1931.
    It got the Howard government re elected.

    There is little point being a Conservative if you don't pursue more conservative policies is there? Conservatives believe in choice in public services with private options too, in healthcare as much as anything else
    I know the weather's been a bit warm recently, but I can assure you we are not in Australia.
    Culturally we are probably closer to Australia than any other nation on earth except maybe New Zealand.

    There is also no point the Tories fighting a battle on who will spend more on the NHS, as Labour will always win it as they are more willing to raise tax higher to pay for it.

    The Tories should instead shift the argument to encouraging patient choice in healthcare too
    Why not focus on something sensible like prevention education, or health surveillance monitoring before the medical event becomes out of control?

    Everything this Government touches is reactive rather than proactive. Maybe there is more opportunity for grift in reaction rather than proaction.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,927
    kle4 said:

    I hope he goes with a Theresa May approach. What's Russian for 'Nothing has changed'.

    Vladimir Putin will "make a number of important announcements tonight", according to Dmitry Peskov, Putin's spokesman.
    https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1673397962020364307

    He essentially did!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,393
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Actually that chart shows little difference overall in NHS waiting times between recent Labour or Tory governments, except they were a bit lower under Labour in 2009-10 and are a bit higher under the Conservatives now (albeit Covid added to the problem).

    Well done for going private though, the more higher income people take out private health insurance and use private hospitals, the less the pressure on the NHS. Best wishes for your recovery after your op.

    I don't know where you learned maths but trebling is not "a bit" and being north of the worst in 30 years and accelerating is not "little difference".

    Still, well done on congratulating OGH for going private, I am sure that has aided his recovery and eased the pain in his wallet no end.
    What Australia does is charge higher income individuals a surcharge of 1% to 1.5% of income if they do not take out private health insurance.

    The Tories should follow the example of the Coalition Howard government in Australia in 1997 which introduced that so more can follow the excellent example of OGH, go private and cut pressure on the NHS.

    The Howard government in 1999 also contributed up to 30% of the private health insurance premium of people with their Medicare universal health coverage
    Keir Starmer is actually praying they take this advice.

    It would be the most brutal defeat of a governing, or recently governing, party since Baldwin managed to reduce Labour from 287 MPs to 50 in 1931.
    It got the Howard government re elected.

    There is little point being a Conservative if you don't pursue more conservative policies is there? Conservatives believe in choice in public services with private options too, in healthcare as much as anything else
    I know the weather's been a bit warm recently, but I can assure you we are not in Australia.
    Culturally we are probably closer to Australia than any other nation on earth except maybe New Zealand.

    There is also no point the Tories fighting a battle on who will spend more on the NHS, as Labour will always win it as they are more willing to raise tax higher to pay for it.

    The Tories should instead shift the argument to encouraging patient choice in healthcare too
    "culturally"

    Don't you mean racially? But it isn't particularly true. Just look at Ireland.
    Australia and New Zealand are mainly of British origin and Protestant heritage.

    The Republic of Ireland is of Celtic origin mainly and Roman Catholic heritage.

    We also still share the King with Australia and New Zealand, we don't now with the Republic of Ireland.

    We got trade deals with Australia and NZ post Brexit, the Republic of Ireland was pretty obstructive to our getting an EU trade deal unless on their terms
    Interesting you think that being a royalist and a member of the C of E are fundamental to "British" culture.

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,302

    Putin talking now


    Putin begins his speech by "welcoming the coming together of society" - claiming Russia is "united" in the face of "this danger".

    Then blames the West and the "neo-Nazis" in Kyiv.

    Claims the "overwhelming majority of Wagner are also Patriots" - praises them for "turning back".

    Putin claims the "organisers of the rebellion will be brought to justice"... So no pardon for Prigozhin, as was promised.

    Calls on Wagner fighters to go back to their homes.

    The big headline from Putin's speech - no immunity for Prigozhin (and presumably Utkin) - they're going to be "brought to justice".

    https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1673409419730644996

    Making Russia Great Again!
    Yes, it's Clintonian...

    Our country has fallen so far, so fast, that just a few months ago the Japanese Prime Minister actually said he felt "sympathy" for the United States. Sympathy! When I am your President, the rest, the rest of the world won't look down on us with pity but up to us with respect again.
    What the fuck is relationship between that quote, and Putin's most recent bilge pumping?

    Besides pro-Trump sophistry, that is?
    I was just mocking your knee-jerk allusion to Trump, as if nobody else has ever used rhetoric along the lines of MAGA.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,393
    geoffw said:

    Carnyx said:

    geoffw said:

     

    Chris said:

    Striking in that graph how much worse things got soon after Boris Johnson took over!

    Err no, there was a sharpish drop until the pandemic took over

    Wrong way round. Early pandemic lockdown = fewer Gp referrals = fewer hospital assessments = fewer new patients on the waiting list. The scale is too coarse, to be sure.

    Also: covid deaths = some folk off the waiting list.
    Not wrong way round. March 2020 was when the first lockdown happened. Look at the graph again.

    Depends how someone made up the graph. Unless you think Mr Johnson was Jesus Christ, laying his hands on everyone in hospital and curing them?

    A waiting list is a dynamic balance between input and output. We know that. We also know that GP sugeries were shifting - as indeed were many of their patients - to infection control measures in February 2020. There was a de facto lockdown before the arguably delayed one that was "official".
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,149

    Putin talking now


    Putin begins his speech by "welcoming the coming together of society" - claiming Russia is "united" in the face of "this danger".

    Then blames the West and the "neo-Nazis" in Kyiv.

    Claims the "overwhelming majority of Wagner are also Patriots" - praises them for "turning back".

    Putin claims the "organisers of the rebellion will be brought to justice"... So no pardon for Prigozhin, as was promised.

    Calls on Wagner fighters to go back to their homes.

    The big headline from Putin's speech - no immunity for Prigozhin (and presumably Utkin) - they're going to be "brought to justice".

    https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1673409419730644996

    Making Russia Great Again!
    Yes, it's Clintonian...

    Our country has fallen so far, so fast, that just a few months ago the Japanese Prime Minister actually said he felt "sympathy" for the United States. Sympathy! When I am your President, the rest, the rest of the world won't look down on us with pity but up to us with respect again.
    What the fuck is relationship between that quote, and Putin's most recent bilge pumping?

    Besides pro-Trump sophistry, that is?
    I was just mocking your knee-jerk allusion to Trump, as if nobody else has ever used rhetoric along the lines of MAGA.
    Biden 81 million votes
    Trump 74 million votes
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Actually that chart shows little difference overall in NHS waiting times between recent Labour or Tory governments, except they were a bit lower under Labour in 2009-10 and are a bit higher under the Conservatives now (albeit Covid added to the problem).

    Well done for going private though, the more higher income people take out private health insurance and use private hospitals, the less the pressure on the NHS. Best wishes for your recovery after your op.

    I don't know where you learned maths but trebling is not "a bit" and being north of the worst in 30 years and accelerating is not "little difference".

    Still, well done on congratulating OGH for going private, I am sure that has aided his recovery and eased the pain in his wallet no end.
    What Australia does is charge higher income individuals a surcharge of 1% to 1.5% of income if they do not take out private health insurance.

    The Tories should follow the example of the Coalition Howard government in Australia in 1997 which introduced that so more can follow the excellent example of OGH, go private and cut pressure on the NHS.

    The Howard government in 1999 also contributed up to 30% of the private health insurance premium of people with their Medicare universal health coverage
    Keir Starmer is actually praying they take this advice.

    It would be the most brutal defeat of a governing, or recently governing, party since Baldwin managed to reduce Labour from 287 MPs to 50 in 1931.
    It got the Howard government re elected.

    There is little point being a Conservative if you don't pursue more conservative policies is there? Conservatives believe in choice in public services with private options too, in healthcare as much as anything else
    I know the weather's been a bit warm recently, but I can assure you we are not in Australia.
    Culturally we are probably closer to Australia than any other nation on earth except maybe New Zealand.

    There is also no point the Tories fighting a battle on who will spend more on the NHS, as Labour will always win it as they are more willing to raise tax higher to pay for it.

    The Tories should instead shift the argument to encouraging patient choice in healthcare too
    "culturally"

    Don't you mean racially? But it isn't particularly true. Just look at Ireland.
    Australia and New Zealand are mainly of British origin and Protestant heritage.

    The Republic of Ireland is of Celtic origin mainly and Roman Catholic heritage.

    We also still share the King with Australia and New Zealand, we don't now with the Republic of Ireland.

    We got trade deals with Australia and NZ post Brexit, the Republic of Ireland was pretty obstructive to our getting an EU trade deal unless on their terms
    That Britain, even large parts of England, is not to a great degree Celtic as you seem to imply will come as a great shock. Indeed the one third of Australians who are of Irish decent may be somewhat surprised at your analysis -https://www.smh.com.au/opinion/has-australia-forgotten-its-irish-past-20150316-1lzw3a.html#:~:text=Up to one-third of,Australia's journey to political independence.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,260
    edited June 2023
    Conversely, I would say modern Britain is much more similar to New Zealand than Australia, with touches of Canada and the U.S on the one side, and NorthWest Continental Europe on the other.

    Australia is increasingly American in style, I think.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,256
    kle4 said:

    I hope he goes with a Theresa May approach. What's Russian for 'Nothing has changed'.

    Vladimir Putin will "make a number of important announcements tonight", according to Dmitry Peskov, Putin's spokesman.
    https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1673397962020364307

    Let SMO be SMO.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,165
    rcs1000 said:

    Putin will apparently be making a series of announcements this evening.

    It's not exactly prime-time in Russia, is it, unless it's very imminent?
    It's 10pm in Moscow, so I think he's probably missed prime time.
    I hear it actually all kicks off at Midnight in Moscow.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,774
    edited June 2023
    Carnyx said:

    geoffw said:

    Carnyx said:

    geoffw said:

     

    Chris said:

    Striking in that graph how much worse things got soon after Boris Johnson took over!

    Err no, there was a sharpish drop until the pandemic took over

    Wrong way round. Early pandemic lockdown = fewer Gp referrals = fewer hospital assessments = fewer new patients on the waiting list. The scale is too coarse, to be sure.

    Also: covid deaths = some folk off the waiting list.
    Not wrong way round. March 2020 was when the first lockdown happened. Look at the graph again.

    Depends how someone made up the graph. Unless you think Mr Johnson was Jesus Christ, laying his hands on everyone in hospital and curing them?

    A waiting list is a dynamic balance between input and output. We know that. We also know that GP sugeries were shifting - as indeed were many of their patients - to infection control measures in February 2020. There was a de facto lockdown before the arguably delayed one that was "official".
    Neither you nor I nor OLB can judge this properly without more information. But it is clear there was a sharpish drop before the exponential (sic) rise

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,393
    kjh said:

    End of a stressful day. Needed to clear my father's house fast as the new owners want to complete asap and I don't want to cause any delays so I haven't replied to any comments from the last thread so:

    @Mortimer - Thank you for your kind post. Appreciated. My dad died aged 96 in February. Just the selling of the house now, which has suddenly turned manic.

    @Stuartinromford - I agree completely with your post re maths and eventually everyone hits the buffers in the end, it is just a matter of when. Definitely happened to me. If I had my time again I would do a joint degree of maths with economics or philosophy to put off hitting the maths buffers.

    @HYUFD - Thanks for the link re philosophy degree & logic questions. I'm interested but the link didn't work - Page not found. One thing to note (and I say this without having read the link) is the logic you do in a maths degree is far more advanced than stuff you do in a philosophy degree (or in particular questions they may set in an interview) by the nature of the prerequisites. In fact the notation itself will be gibberish without the previous preparation. That is not to say a question set in an interview will not be as difficult, it might in fact be more difficult. There are plenty of everyday logic questions I can't do that an untrained but clever person can do, but which doesn't involve complex logic. And as you know, I don't have a logic degree (I don't even know if such a thing exists), but said it as a riposte to @Miklosvar, although my specialist subjects in my 2nd & 3rd year of maths were all logic topics.

    @TheScreamingEagles - I enjoyed your post on deciding your degree/career.

    @DecrepiterJohnL - Your post about many Doctors regretting their choice and moving to other careers. I agree. They are often talented in several areas and it follows from my argument of going down the science line first and then wishing they had done something they had more passion for. For most of us we do a degree, and move on, but for a Doctor it is a career. There are so many in the public eye who are ex-Doctors doing non doctoring stuff. My wife (a doctor) often feels the same.

    @Miklosvar - You are an arse. When you first appeared on PB I had a pointless pedantic exchange with you and decided to avoid you. Today I made a half serious comment for comic effect that was at the expense of historians/lawyers and people like @TheScreamingEagles and @ydoethur respond accordingly, in fun. You on the other hand responded appallingly, as you nearly always do. I've noticed you have done this with others. With @kinabalu for instance. And your reaction and jumping to the wrong conclusion when I politely said I had to leave for a few hours, but would reply on my return, was an example. Would you have preferred it if I had been rude and just ignored you.

    You're rude, pedantic, irrational, and tangential. You appear to be an exceedingly unpleasant person. Not bad going for someone who has only made a few hundred posts.

    Commiserations re house clearance. Just been doing it as an executor for an elderly relative (made a bit easier by getting the local Men's Shed to clear out as much as they wanted of the unwanted tools, timber, unfinished firniture, and gardening tools and mower, the latter refurbished and sold for the Shede funds).
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769
    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    I hope he goes with a Theresa May approach. What's Russian for 'Nothing has changed'.

    Vladimir Putin will "make a number of important announcements tonight", according to Dmitry Peskov, Putin's spokesman.
    https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1673397962020364307

    Let SMO be SMO.
    Que SeMO, SeMO
    Whatever will be, will be...

    Repeat every Day.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,302
    Putin is putting Prigozhin in a position where he will have no choice but to try to orchestrate regime change in Russia.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Putin talking now


    Putin begins his speech by "welcoming the coming together of society" - claiming Russia is "united" in the face of "this danger".

    Then blames the West and the "neo-Nazis" in Kyiv.

    Claims the "overwhelming majority of Wagner are also Patriots" - praises them for "turning back".

    Putin claims the "organisers of the rebellion will be brought to justice"... So no pardon for Prigozhin, as was promised.

    Calls on Wagner fighters to go back to their homes.

    The big headline from Putin's speech - no immunity for Prigozhin (and presumably Utkin) - they're going to be "brought to justice".

    https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1673409419730644996

    Making Russia Great Again!
    Yes, it's Clintonian...

    Our country has fallen so far, so fast, that just a few months ago the Japanese Prime Minister actually said he felt "sympathy" for the United States. Sympathy! When I am your President, the rest, the rest of the world won't look down on us with pity but up to us with respect again.
    What the fuck is relationship between that quote, and Putin's most recent bilge pumping?

    Besides pro-Trump sophistry, that is?
    I was just mocking your knee-jerk allusion to Trump, as if nobody else has ever used rhetoric along the lines of MAGA.
    Well, while I jerk my knee, you can keep on jerking on Trump's . . .
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,260
    edited June 2023
    Very anticlimactic statement from Putin.

    It said nothing really new, but obviously he saw the importance if reappearing.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,928
    rcs1000 said:

    Cicero said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Putin will apparently be making a series of announcements this evening.

    It's not exactly prime-time in Russia, is it, unless it's very imminent?
    It's 10pm in Moscow, so I think he's probably missed prime time.
    It's 11 in fact, some rubbish about a closer union between BY and RUS is a good guess.
    Are you calling Google a liar:


    Perhaps he's hoping to make the morning bulletins in Vladivostok? In no other country would it be such an issue.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987

    Conversely, I would say modern Britain is much more similar to New Zealand than Australia, with touches of Canada and the U.S on the one side, and NorthWest Continental Europe on the other.

    Australia is increasingly American in style, I think.

    In part but still a long way from Trumpite America. Australia is also by far the biggest destination still for UK emigrants
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,028

    HYUFD said:

    Actually that chart shows little difference overall in NHS waiting times between recent Labour or Tory governments, except they were a bit lower under Labour in 2009-10 and are a bit higher under the Conservatives now (albeit Covid added to the problem).

    Well done for going private though, the more higher income people take out private health insurance and use private hospitals, the less the pressure on the NHS. Best wishes for your recovery after your op.

    When you say "a bit lower" did you mean that the number of people waiting halved under Labour and had doubled again before Covid happened and have spun out of control since? It's fair to talk about the cost-benefit calculation, but those aren't little differences.

    When did you manage to opt out of learning maths?
    One of the many benefits of a grammar school, so I've heard.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    ohnotnow said:

    HYUFD said:

    Actually that chart shows little difference overall in NHS waiting times between recent Labour or Tory governments, except they were a bit lower under Labour in 2009-10 and are a bit higher under the Conservatives now (albeit Covid added to the problem).

    Well done for going private though, the more higher income people take out private health insurance and use private hospitals, the less the pressure on the NHS. Best wishes for your recovery after your op.

    When you say "a bit lower" did you mean that the number of people waiting halved under Labour and had doubled again before Covid happened and have spun out of control since? It's fair to talk about the cost-benefit calculation, but those aren't little differences.

    When did you manage to opt out of learning maths?
    One of the many benefits of a grammar school, so I've heard.
    I went to a grammar school and can confirm that my grammar is, indeed, quite good.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,393
    geoffw said:

    Carnyx said:

    geoffw said:

    Carnyx said:

    geoffw said:

     

    Chris said:

    Striking in that graph how much worse things got soon after Boris Johnson took over!

    Err no, there was a sharpish drop until the pandemic took over

    Wrong way round. Early pandemic lockdown = fewer Gp referrals = fewer hospital assessments = fewer new patients on the waiting list. The scale is too coarse, to be sure.

    Also: covid deaths = some folk off the waiting list.
    Not wrong way round. March 2020 was when the first lockdown happened. Look at the graph again.

    Depends how someone made up the graph. Unless you think Mr Johnson was Jesus Christ, laying his hands on everyone in hospital and curing them?

    A waiting list is a dynamic balance between input and output. We know that. We also know that GP sugeries were shifting - as indeed were many of their patients - to infection control measures in February 2020. There was a de facto lockdown before the arguably delayed one that was "official".
    Neither you nor I nor OLB can judge this properly without more information. But it is clear there was a sharpish drop before the exponential (sic) rise

    Looks as if that is the point covering February 1-28 - ops and so on still happening as booked, but the GP end of things beginning to shut down as people deferred visits, so that the waiting list wasn't being fed in at the in end.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,657

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Actually that chart shows little difference overall in NHS waiting times between recent Labour or Tory governments, except they were a bit lower under Labour in 2009-10 and are a bit higher under the Conservatives now (albeit Covid added to the problem).

    Well done for going private though, the more higher income people take out private health insurance and use private hospitals, the less the pressure on the NHS. Best wishes for your recovery after your op.

    I don't know where you learned maths but trebling is not "a bit" and being north of the worst in 30 years and accelerating is not "little difference".

    Still, well done on congratulating OGH for going private, I am sure that has aided his recovery and eased the pain in his wallet no end.
    What Australia does is charge higher income individuals a surcharge of 1% to 1.5% of income if they do not take out private health insurance.

    The Tories should follow the example of the Coalition Howard government in Australia in 1997 which introduced that so more can follow the excellent example of OGH, go private and cut pressure on the NHS.

    The Howard government in 1999 also contributed up to 30% of the private health insurance premium of people with their Medicare universal health coverage
    Keir Starmer is actually praying they take this advice.

    It would be the most brutal defeat of a governing, or recently governing, party since Baldwin managed to reduce Labour from 287 MPs to 50 in 1931.
    It got the Howard government re elected.

    There is little point being a Conservative if you don't pursue more conservative policies is there? Conservatives believe in choice in public services with private options too, in healthcare as much as anything else
    I know the weather's been a bit warm recently, but I can assure you we are not in Australia.
    Culturally we are probably closer to Australia than any other nation on earth except maybe New Zealand.

    There is also no point the Tories fighting a battle on who will spend more on the NHS, as Labour will always win it as they are more willing to raise tax higher to pay for it.

    The Tories should instead shift the argument to encouraging patient choice in healthcare too
    Why not focus on something sensible like prevention education, or health surveillance monitoring before the medical event becomes out of control?

    Everything this Government touches is reactive rather than proactive. Maybe there is more opportunity for grift in reaction rather than proaction.
    Smokers and ex smokers 55 - 74 to receive cancer screening is a good decision

    https://news.sky.com/story/smokers-and-ex-smokers-aged-55-74-to-be-offered-free-lung-cancer-screenings-12909605
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Actually that chart shows little difference overall in NHS waiting times between recent Labour or Tory governments, except they were a bit lower under Labour in 2009-10 and are a bit higher under the Conservatives now (albeit Covid added to the problem).

    Well done for going private though, the more higher income people take out private health insurance and use private hospitals, the less the pressure on the NHS. Best wishes for your recovery after your op.

    I don't know where you learned maths but trebling is not "a bit" and being north of the worst in 30 years and accelerating is not "little difference".

    Still, well done on congratulating OGH for going private, I am sure that has aided his recovery and eased the pain in his wallet no end.
    What Australia does is charge higher income individuals a surcharge of 1% to 1.5% of income if they do not take out private health insurance.

    The Tories should follow the example of the Coalition Howard government in Australia in 1997 which introduced that so more can follow the excellent example of OGH, go private and cut pressure on the NHS.

    The Howard government in 1999 also contributed up to 30% of the private health insurance premium of people with their Medicare universal health coverage
    Keir Starmer is actually praying they take this advice.

    It would be the most brutal defeat of a governing, or recently governing, party since Baldwin managed to reduce Labour from 287 MPs to 50 in 1931.
    It got the Howard government re elected.

    There is little point being a Conservative if you don't pursue more conservative policies is there? Conservatives believe in choice in public services with private options too, in healthcare as much as anything else
    I know the weather's been a bit warm recently, but I can assure you we are not in Australia.
    Culturally we are probably closer to Australia than any other nation on earth except maybe New Zealand.

    There is also no point the Tories fighting a battle on who will spend more on the NHS, as Labour will always win it as they are more willing to raise tax higher to pay for it.

    The Tories should instead shift the argument to encouraging patient choice in healthcare too
    "culturally"

    Don't you mean racially? But it isn't particularly true. Just look at Ireland.
    Australia and New Zealand are mainly of British origin and Protestant heritage.

    The Republic of Ireland is of Celtic origin mainly and Roman Catholic heritage.

    We also still share the King with Australia and New Zealand, we don't now with the Republic of Ireland.

    We got trade deals with Australia and NZ post Brexit, the Republic of Ireland was pretty obstructive to our getting an EU trade deal unless on their terms
    That Britain, even large parts of England, is not to a great degree Celtic as you seem to imply will come as a great shock. Indeed the one third of Australians who are of Irish decent may be somewhat surprised at your analysis -https://www.smh.com.au/opinion/has-australia-forgotten-its-irish-past-20150316-1lzw3a.html#:~:text=Up to one-third of,Australia's journey to political independence.
    So 2/3 of Australians are not of Irish descent then (and that includes Northern Ireland not just the Republic) and most of the UK is more Anglo Saxon, Norman (plus more recent Jewish, Huguenot and non white immigrants) than Celtic except the fringe.

  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,947
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    Looks like the Tory London Mayoral decision is down to 2 candidates

    https://twitter.com/_adamcherry_/status/1673404639876640771

    Daniel Korski was in the middle of a London mayoral hustings when the Times story dropped. I'm told his aide signalled him over to deliver the bad news. He left.

    London Conservatives put Steve Norris and Boris Johnson before the electorate, and would have had Jeffrey Archer if they could. Is scandalous behaviour on the person spec as a "not essential but desirable" or something?
    At least people had heard of Boris and Archer, who has heard of these 3 (now likely 2?) Even Norris and Zac Goldsmith and Shaun Bailey were better known.

    Of the last 2 Susan Hall is probably the best though, at least she has held elected office for the party in the London Assembly, the other candidate has never even stood for the party that I can see
    I normally agree with @Stuartinromford on nearly everything, but I think I am with you on this one and maybe hindsight plays a part. I liked Steve Norris, and although my memory is blurred on the topic by recent events, I suspect I quite liked Boris in the day. It is more recent times that has turned me against him really big time.

    Also after reading the Michael Crick biography of Jeffery Archer I rather have a soft spot for him, although he should never have been let anywhere near the possibility of being London Mayor (or my wallet if it comes to that)
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,302

    Putin talking now


    Putin begins his speech by "welcoming the coming together of society" - claiming Russia is "united" in the face of "this danger".

    Then blames the West and the "neo-Nazis" in Kyiv.

    Claims the "overwhelming majority of Wagner are also Patriots" - praises them for "turning back".

    Putin claims the "organisers of the rebellion will be brought to justice"... So no pardon for Prigozhin, as was promised.

    Calls on Wagner fighters to go back to their homes.

    The big headline from Putin's speech - no immunity for Prigozhin (and presumably Utkin) - they're going to be "brought to justice".

    https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1673409419730644996

    Making Russia Great Again!
    Yes, it's Clintonian...

    Our country has fallen so far, so fast, that just a few months ago the Japanese Prime Minister actually said he felt "sympathy" for the United States. Sympathy! When I am your President, the rest, the rest of the world won't look down on us with pity but up to us with respect again.
    What the fuck is relationship between that quote, and Putin's most recent bilge pumping?

    Besides pro-Trump sophistry, that is?
    I was just mocking your knee-jerk allusion to Trump, as if nobody else has ever used rhetoric along the lines of MAGA.
    Well, while I jerk my knee, you can keep on jerking on Trump's . . .
    The fact is that MAGA-style rhetoric has been used by many politicians including ones you’ve probably supported in your time. It’s juvenile to try to link it to “Putinism”.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,774
    Carnyx said:

    geoffw said:

    Carnyx said:

    geoffw said:

    Carnyx said:

    geoffw said:

     

    Chris said:

    Striking in that graph how much worse things got soon after Boris Johnson took over!

    Err no, there was a sharpish drop until the pandemic took over

    Wrong way round. Early pandemic lockdown = fewer Gp referrals = fewer hospital assessments = fewer new patients on the waiting list. The scale is too coarse, to be sure.

    Also: covid deaths = some folk off the waiting list.
    Not wrong way round. March 2020 was when the first lockdown happened. Look at the graph again.

    Depends how someone made up the graph. Unless you think Mr Johnson was Jesus Christ, laying his hands on everyone in hospital and curing them?

    A waiting list is a dynamic balance between input and output. We know that. We also know that GP sugeries were shifting - as indeed were many of their patients - to infection control measures in February 2020. There was a de facto lockdown before the arguably delayed one that was "official".
    Neither you nor I nor OLB can judge this properly without more information. But it is clear there was a sharpish drop before the exponential (sic) rise

    Looks as if that is the point covering February 1-28 - ops and so on still happening as booked, but the GP end of things beginning to shut down as people deferred visits, so that the waiting list wasn't being fed in at the in end.
    Your supposition

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,393
    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Actually that chart shows little difference overall in NHS waiting times between recent Labour or Tory governments, except they were a bit lower under Labour in 2009-10 and are a bit higher under the Conservatives now (albeit Covid added to the problem).

    Well done for going private though, the more higher income people take out private health insurance and use private hospitals, the less the pressure on the NHS. Best wishes for your recovery after your op.

    I don't know where you learned maths but trebling is not "a bit" and being north of the worst in 30 years and accelerating is not "little difference".

    Still, well done on congratulating OGH for going private, I am sure that has aided his recovery and eased the pain in his wallet no end.
    What Australia does is charge higher income individuals a surcharge of 1% to 1.5% of income if they do not take out private health insurance.

    The Tories should follow the example of the Coalition Howard government in Australia in 1997 which introduced that so more can follow the excellent example of OGH, go private and cut pressure on the NHS.

    The Howard government in 1999 also contributed up to 30% of the private health insurance premium of people with their Medicare universal health coverage
    Keir Starmer is actually praying they take this advice.

    It would be the most brutal defeat of a governing, or recently governing, party since Baldwin managed to reduce Labour from 287 MPs to 50 in 1931.
    It got the Howard government re elected.

    There is little point being a Conservative if you don't pursue more conservative policies is there? Conservatives believe in choice in public services with private options too, in healthcare as much as anything else
    I know the weather's been a bit warm recently, but I can assure you we are not in Australia.
    Culturally we are probably closer to Australia than any other nation on earth except maybe New Zealand.

    There is also no point the Tories fighting a battle on who will spend more on the NHS, as Labour will always win it as they are more willing to raise tax higher to pay for it.

    The Tories should instead shift the argument to encouraging patient choice in healthcare too
    "culturally"

    Don't you mean racially? But it isn't particularly true. Just look at Ireland.
    Australia and New Zealand are mainly of British origin and Protestant heritage.

    The Republic of Ireland is of Celtic origin mainly and Roman Catholic heritage.

    We also still share the King with Australia and New Zealand, we don't now with the Republic of Ireland.

    We got trade deals with Australia and NZ post Brexit, the Republic of Ireland was pretty obstructive to our getting an EU trade deal unless on their terms
    That Britain, even large parts of England, is not to a great degree Celtic as you seem to imply will come as a great shock. Indeed the one third of Australians who are of Irish decent may be somewhat surprised at your analysis -https://www.smh.com.au/opinion/has-australia-forgotten-its-irish-past-20150316-1lzw3a.html#:~:text=Up to one-third of,Australia's journey to political independence.
    So 2/3 of Australians are not of Irish descent then (and that includes Northern Ireland not just the Republic) and most of the UK is more Anglo Saxon, Norman (plus more recent Jewish, Huguenot and non white immigrants) than Celtic except the fringe.

    Rather a lot of Australians come from other parts of the world than GB.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Actually that chart shows little difference overall in NHS waiting times between recent Labour or Tory governments, except they were a bit lower under Labour in 2009-10 and are a bit higher under the Conservatives now (albeit Covid added to the problem).

    Well done for going private though, the more higher income people take out private health insurance and use private hospitals, the less the pressure on the NHS. Best wishes for your recovery after your op.

    I don't know where you learned maths but trebling is not "a bit" and being north of the worst in 30 years and accelerating is not "little difference".

    Still, well done on congratulating OGH for going private, I am sure that has aided his recovery and eased the pain in his wallet no end.
    What Australia does is charge higher income individuals a surcharge of 1% to 1.5% of income if they do not take out private health insurance.

    The Tories should follow the example of the Coalition Howard government in Australia in 1997 which introduced that so more can follow the excellent example of OGH, go private and cut pressure on the NHS.

    The Howard government in 1999 also contributed up to 30% of the private health insurance premium of people with their Medicare universal health coverage
    Keir Starmer is actually praying they take this advice.

    It would be the most brutal defeat of a governing, or recently governing, party since Baldwin managed to reduce Labour from 287 MPs to 50 in 1931.
    It got the Howard government re elected.

    There is little point being a Conservative if you don't pursue more conservative policies is there? Conservatives believe in choice in public services with private options too, in healthcare as much as anything else
    I know the weather's been a bit warm recently, but I can assure you we are not in Australia.
    Culturally we are probably closer to Australia than any other nation on earth except maybe New Zealand.

    There is also no point the Tories fighting a battle on who will spend more on the NHS, as Labour will always win it as they are more willing to raise tax higher to pay for it.

    The Tories should instead shift the argument to encouraging patient choice in healthcare too
    "culturally"

    Don't you mean racially? But it isn't particularly true. Just look at Ireland.
    Australia and New Zealand are mainly of British origin and Protestant heritage.

    The Republic of Ireland is of Celtic origin mainly and Roman Catholic heritage.

    We also still share the King with Australia and New Zealand, we don't now with the Republic of Ireland.

    We got trade deals with Australia and NZ post Brexit, the Republic of Ireland was pretty obstructive to our getting an EU trade deal unless on their terms
    Interesting you think that being a royalist and a member of the C of E are fundamental to "British" culture.

    Well most British people are royalist still and most British people are of Protestant not Roman Catholic heritage too, even if they are now atheist or agnostic
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    edited June 2023
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Actually that chart shows little difference overall in NHS waiting times between recent Labour or Tory governments, except they were a bit lower under Labour in 2009-10 and are a bit higher under the Conservatives now (albeit Covid added to the problem).

    Well done for going private though, the more higher income people take out private health insurance and use private hospitals, the less the pressure on the NHS. Best wishes for your recovery after your op.

    I don't know where you learned maths but trebling is not "a bit" and being north of the worst in 30 years and accelerating is not "little difference".

    Still, well done on congratulating OGH for going private, I am sure that has aided his recovery and eased the pain in his wallet no end.
    What Australia does is charge higher income individuals a surcharge of 1% to 1.5% of income if they do not take out private health insurance.

    The Tories should follow the example of the Coalition Howard government in Australia in 1997 which introduced that so more can follow the excellent example of OGH, go private and cut pressure on the NHS.

    The Howard government in 1999 also contributed up to 30% of the private health insurance premium of people with their Medicare universal health coverage
    Keir Starmer is actually praying they take this advice.

    It would be the most brutal defeat of a governing, or recently governing, party since Baldwin managed to reduce Labour from 287 MPs to 50 in 1931.
    It got the Howard government re elected.

    There is little point being a Conservative if you don't pursue more conservative policies is there? Conservatives believe in choice in public services with private options too, in healthcare as much as anything else
    I know the weather's been a bit warm recently, but I can assure you we are not in Australia.
    Culturally we are probably closer to Australia than any other nation on earth except maybe New Zealand.

    There is also no point the Tories fighting a battle on who will spend more on the NHS, as Labour will always win it as they are more willing to raise tax higher to pay for it.

    The Tories should instead shift the argument to encouraging patient choice in healthcare too
    "culturally"

    Don't you mean racially? But it isn't particularly true. Just look at Ireland.
    Australia and New Zealand are mainly of British origin and Protestant heritage.

    The Republic of Ireland is of Celtic origin mainly and Roman Catholic heritage.

    We also still share the King with Australia and New Zealand, we don't now with the Republic of Ireland.

    We got trade deals with Australia and NZ post Brexit, the Republic of Ireland was pretty obstructive to our getting an EU trade deal unless on their terms
    That Britain, even large parts of England, is not to a great degree Celtic as you seem to imply will come as a great shock. Indeed the one third of Australians who are of Irish decent may be somewhat surprised at your analysis -https://www.smh.com.au/opinion/has-australia-forgotten-its-irish-past-20150316-1lzw3a.html#:~:text=Up to one-third of,Australia's journey to political independence.
    So 2/3 of Australians are not of Irish descent then (and that includes Northern Ireland not just the Republic) and most of the UK is more Anglo Saxon, Norman (plus more recent Jewish, Huguenot and non white immigrants) than Celtic except the fringe.

    Rather a lot of Australians come from other parts of the world than GB.
    Still only a minority of them and plenty in GB too were not born here or their parents were not born here either but they are also only a minority of the GB population
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,393
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Actually that chart shows little difference overall in NHS waiting times between recent Labour or Tory governments, except they were a bit lower under Labour in 2009-10 and are a bit higher under the Conservatives now (albeit Covid added to the problem).

    Well done for going private though, the more higher income people take out private health insurance and use private hospitals, the less the pressure on the NHS. Best wishes for your recovery after your op.

    I don't know where you learned maths but trebling is not "a bit" and being north of the worst in 30 years and accelerating is not "little difference".

    Still, well done on congratulating OGH for going private, I am sure that has aided his recovery and eased the pain in his wallet no end.
    What Australia does is charge higher income individuals a surcharge of 1% to 1.5% of income if they do not take out private health insurance.

    The Tories should follow the example of the Coalition Howard government in Australia in 1997 which introduced that so more can follow the excellent example of OGH, go private and cut pressure on the NHS.

    The Howard government in 1999 also contributed up to 30% of the private health insurance premium of people with their Medicare universal health coverage
    Keir Starmer is actually praying they take this advice.

    It would be the most brutal defeat of a governing, or recently governing, party since Baldwin managed to reduce Labour from 287 MPs to 50 in 1931.
    It got the Howard government re elected.

    There is little point being a Conservative if you don't pursue more conservative policies is there? Conservatives believe in choice in public services with private options too, in healthcare as much as anything else
    I know the weather's been a bit warm recently, but I can assure you we are not in Australia.
    Culturally we are probably closer to Australia than any other nation on earth except maybe New Zealand.

    There is also no point the Tories fighting a battle on who will spend more on the NHS, as Labour will always win it as they are more willing to raise tax higher to pay for it.

    The Tories should instead shift the argument to encouraging patient choice in healthcare too
    "culturally"

    Don't you mean racially? But it isn't particularly true. Just look at Ireland.
    Australia and New Zealand are mainly of British origin and Protestant heritage.

    The Republic of Ireland is of Celtic origin mainly and Roman Catholic heritage.

    We also still share the King with Australia and New Zealand, we don't now with the Republic of Ireland.

    We got trade deals with Australia and NZ post Brexit, the Republic of Ireland was pretty obstructive to our getting an EU trade deal unless on their terms
    Interesting you think that being a royalist and a member of the C of E are fundamental to "British" culture.

    Well most British people are royalist still and most British people are of Protestant not Roman Catholic heritage too, even if they are now atheist or agnostic
    I can tell you that more "British" people, with parents in the UK before, say, 1940, were of Roman Catholic heritage than Protestant heritage. Your "even if now" fails to allow for the fact that that applies to other categories too.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Seattle Times ($) - Pacific Northwest primed for wildfire as officials prepare for likely active season

    As fires begin torching Olympic National Park, the Columbia Basin and elsewhere, Pacific Northwest lawmakers and fire officials are bracing for a wildfire season that could be worse here than anywhere else in the U.S.

    Experts predict an above-normal potential for wildfire for all of Washington, parts of Idaho and Montana and Oregon. It’s the culmination of lots of available grassy fuels, and hot and dry conditions expected through the summer months.

    Washington saw the least acres burned in a decade last year, after the second- and third-worst fire seasons on record in 2020 and 2021.

    But the Bolt Creek fire, which tore through more than 22 square miles of wilderness in eastern King and Snohomish counties last fall, may have been a dress rehearsal for more frequent fires along the western flank of the Cascades as climate change drives warming summers.

    Experts say all of Washington will be vulnerable to fire this summer, and Washingtonians should prepare their homes for fire and smoke.

    Last year’s quiet start to fire season highlighted the importance of a cool, wet spring. By mid-July, wildfires burned about 7,100 acres, or about 11 square miles, compared with roughly 320,000 acres the previous year.

    This May, Western Washington saw precipitation around 5 to 25% of normal, said Matthew Cullen, a meteorologist with the National Weather Service. It was the second-warmest May on record. . . .
This discussion has been closed.