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Will WH2024 really be a WH2020 re-run? – politicalbetting.com

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  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    🚨New from @IpsosUK / @standardnews - Labour lead at 22 🚨

    Labour 47% (+3 from May)
    Conservatives 25% (-3)
    Lib Dems 13% (-)
    Greens 8% (+2)
    Other 8% (-)

    1,003 GB adults interviewed by telephone 14-20 June

    Short 🧵

    Still no sign of that single digit lead for Labour that was predicted three months ago by many on here.
    Oh those heady days of spring when the Daily Mail and camp followers like Casino Royale attempted to spread the narrative that the Tory recovery had begun.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Pulpstar said:

    🚨New from @IpsosUK / @standardnews - Labour lead at 22 🚨

    Labour 47% (+3 from May)
    Conservatives 25% (-3)
    Lib Dems 13% (-)
    Greens 8% (+2)
    Other 8% (-)

    1,003 GB adults interviewed by telephone 14-20 June

    Short 🧵

    Labour's going to win in Selby aren't they lol. My £11 against them will be sunk.
    Surely not? That is a Tory stronghold isn't it?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,522

    algarkirk said:

    glw said:

    algarkirk said:

    Joining EEA/EFTA (the Norway option) thus retaining Brexit and doing most of what most people now want looks a bit of a no-brainer. Very interesting that the possibility is being ignored on all sides. Is Labour keeping it for after the election?

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jun/23/britons-who-want-to-rejoin-eu-at-highest-since-2016-survey-finds

    It's not a no-brainer, because when asked about Freedom of Movement even most Remainers didn't want that. The UK public wants to access the single market without complying with the laws of the single market. The only no-brainer is the EU saying "no" to any such deal.
    Of course. But to support 'Rejoin' is of course to support FOM. The old dilemma remains - in the UK we want the trade but not the politics, and FOM counts as trade not politics for the EU, and politics not trade for most in the UK.

    There would be away round this, if one thinks John Majorishly.

    One upon a time we negotiated a 'permanent' opt out from the Euro. It is axiomatic that for pro EU types the Euro is part of the project and a good thing - that's why it exists. But we got an opt out. Silly old UK, but we can still sell them cars in exchange for Scottish lobsters.

    FOM should be seen similarly within the pro EU world - it is axiomatically a good things or we would not do it. Anyone bilaterally out of it will suffer. So, just as with the Euro, if the UK wants to have a less good membership, so be it. No-one else will be so crazy, as FOM is a good thing for all the others. Silly old UK missing out on all the French bankers in London, and being able to teach physics in Bulgaria.
    Admittedly the chances of me voting Tory were pretty slim anyway, but I will never, ever forgive them for robbing me of my European citizenship and FOM to appease a load of embittered, ignorant and racist pensioners. Pensioners who are largely insulated from the penury they are inflicting on their children and grandchildren in pursuit of returning to some imagined golden age of 1958 or some such horseshit.

    God I fucking hate what’s been done to this country. Berlin was mine, Paris was mine. The continent was mine. Gone, sacrificed on the alter of Faragism.
    And yet I have been to Paris and Berlin and many other places In Europe since Brexit with no issue at all. And I have been working in the EU and EEA.

    This whining bollocks about 'what I have lost' is just self pitying garbage by those who have only discovered their supposed 'European' identity since Brexit.

    Grow up.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited June 2023
    eristdoof said:

    HYUFD said:

    1/ The fundamentals are bad for the Cons - very bad!

    Satisfaction with govt running the country

    - Satisfied 12% (-3 from May)
    - Dissatisfied 80% (+4)

    Net of -68 essentially the same as Truss govt score of -69 in Oct.

    87% of mortgage holders dissatisfied (!) = pre rates hike


    2/ Public becoming a bit more pessimistic about the economy again after a couple of months of improvement.

    How will the economy do in the next 12 months?

    Improve 21% (-3 from May)
    Get worse 58% (+4)
    No change 18% (-)

    Net = -37 down from -30 last month. But was -56 in Nov.


    3/ Sunak's personal poll ratings have dipped a little this month too.

    Satisfaction with performance as PM

    - Satisfied 28% (-2 from May_
    - Dissatisfied 59% (+4)
    Net = -31


    4/ Satisfaction with Starmer as Labour leader is stable

    Satisfied 31% (-)
    Dissatisfied 49% (-1)
    Net= -18

    So underwater (Blair and Cameron were both net positive when they won from opposition).

    But scores better than Sunak.


    5/ To finish ... worst govt net satisfaction ratings by PM via @IpsosUK

    Thatcher: -63 (Mar 90)
    Major: -78 (Dec 94)
    Blair: -47 (May / Nov 06)
    Brown: -62 (June 09)
    Cameron: -45 (Jul 16)
    May: -77 (Jun 19)
    Johnson: -67 (Sep 19)
    Truss: -69 (Oct 22)
    _______
    Sunak: -68 (Jun 23)

    So Sunak's government now has a net satisfaction rating higher than Major's in 1997 and higher than Truss and May's, even if slightly worse than Boris'
    A result a bit better than than Major in 1997 is still a disaster for the Tories.
    Given the Tories were heading for a 1993 Canadian Tories style wipeout and less than 50 seats under Truss last autumn, many Tory MPs would have bitten your hand off for a slightly better than Major 1997 result back then
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    edited June 2023
    New from @ipsosuk / @standardnews - Labour lead at 22 🚨

    Labour 47% (+3 from May)
    Conservatives 25% (-3)
    Lib Dems 13% (-)
    Greens 8% (+2)
    Other 8% (-)

    1,003 GB adults interviewed by telephone 14-20 June

    Short 🧵

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1672200104759943168


    5/ To finish ... worst govt net satisfaction ratings by PM via
    @IpsosUK

    Thatcher: -63 (Mar 90)
    Major: -78 (Dec 94)
    Blair: -47 (May / Nov 06)
    Brown: -62 (June 09)
    Cameron: -45 (Jul 16)
    May: -77 (Jun 19)
    Johnson: -67 (Sep 19)
    Truss: -69 (Oct 22)
    _______
    Sunak: -68 (Jun 23)
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    "Leg-spinner Rehan Ahmed has been added to the England squad for the second Test as cover for Moeen Ali, who is struggling with a finger injury.

    The 18-year-old, who plays his county cricket for Leicestershire, took seven wickets against Pakistan on debut last winter.

    He now stands a chance of making his second Test appearance in the match at Lord's, which starts on Wednesday."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/cricket/65032548
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,218
    HYUFD said:

    1/ The fundamentals are bad for the Cons - very bad!

    Satisfaction with govt running the country

    - Satisfied 12% (-3 from May)
    - Dissatisfied 80% (+4)

    Net of -68 essentially the same as Truss govt score of -69 in Oct.

    87% of mortgage holders dissatisfied (!) = pre rates hike


    2/ Public becoming a bit more pessimistic about the economy again after a couple of months of improvement.

    How will the economy do in the next 12 months?

    Improve 21% (-3 from May)
    Get worse 58% (+4)
    No change 18% (-)

    Net = -37 down from -30 last month. But was -56 in Nov.


    3/ Sunak's personal poll ratings have dipped a little this month too.

    Satisfaction with performance as PM

    - Satisfied 28% (-2 from May_
    - Dissatisfied 59% (+4)
    Net = -31


    4/ Satisfaction with Starmer as Labour leader is stable

    Satisfied 31% (-)
    Dissatisfied 49% (-1)
    Net= -18

    So underwater (Blair and Cameron were both net positive when they won from opposition).

    But scores better than Sunak.


    5/ To finish ... worst govt net satisfaction ratings by PM via @IpsosUK

    Thatcher: -63 (Mar 90)
    Major: -78 (Dec 94)
    Blair: -47 (May / Nov 06)
    Brown: -62 (June 09)
    Cameron: -45 (Jul 16)
    May: -77 (Jun 19)
    Johnson: -67 (Sep 19)
    Truss: -69 (Oct 22)
    _______
    Sunak: -68 (Jun 23)

    So Sunak's government now has a net satisfaction rating higher than Major's in 1997 and higher than Truss and May's, even if slightly worse than Boris'
    Actually, by 1997, net satisfaction with Major's government had perked up a bit to -46 (23 :) 69 :(; it was 8 :) 86 :( at the nadir). Not that it did him much good.

    Part of Sunak's problem is that there's so much time left. And whilst that might be time to make things better, it might also make things a whole lot worse.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Taz said:

    The ECB reports this morning that disinflation is well underway and it is only the catch up in wage growth that it is slowing it.

    Look at the money supply and look at PPI.

    Some are even speculating deflation next year in the Us.
    Yep I posted such a week or so ago.
    Maybe I am talking my own book (my UK mortgage is up for renewal in December)…😱
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,421
    ...
    HYUFD said:

    eristdoof said:

    HYUFD said:

    1/ The fundamentals are bad for the Cons - very bad!

    Satisfaction with govt running the country

    - Satisfied 12% (-3 from May)
    - Dissatisfied 80% (+4)

    Net of -68 essentially the same as Truss govt score of -69 in Oct.

    87% of mortgage holders dissatisfied (!) = pre rates hike


    2/ Public becoming a bit more pessimistic about the economy again after a couple of months of improvement.

    How will the economy do in the next 12 months?

    Improve 21% (-3 from May)
    Get worse 58% (+4)
    No change 18% (-)

    Net = -37 down from -30 last month. But was -56 in Nov.


    3/ Sunak's personal poll ratings have dipped a little this month too.

    Satisfaction with performance as PM

    - Satisfied 28% (-2 from May_
    - Dissatisfied 59% (+4)
    Net = -31


    4/ Satisfaction with Starmer as Labour leader is stable

    Satisfied 31% (-)
    Dissatisfied 49% (-1)
    Net= -18

    So underwater (Blair and Cameron were both net positive when they won from opposition).

    But scores better than Sunak.


    5/ To finish ... worst govt net satisfaction ratings by PM via @IpsosUK

    Thatcher: -63 (Mar 90)
    Major: -78 (Dec 94)
    Blair: -47 (May / Nov 06)
    Brown: -62 (June 09)
    Cameron: -45 (Jul 16)
    May: -77 (Jun 19)
    Johnson: -67 (Sep 19)
    Truss: -69 (Oct 22)
    _______
    Sunak: -68 (Jun 23)

    So Sunak's government now has a net satisfaction rating higher than Major's in 1997 and higher than Truss and May's, even if slightly worse than Boris'
    A result a bit better than than Major in 1997 is still a disaster for the Tories.
    Given the Tories were heading for a 1993 Canadian Tories style wipeout and less than 50 seats under Truss last autumn, many Tory MPs would have bitten your hand off for a slightly better than Major 1997 result back then
    They were not heading for that - polling is a snapshot not a prediction, as you will know.

    Your threadbare Sunak ramping as he marches the Tory Party to crushing defeat is embarrassing.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,349

    algarkirk said:

    glw said:

    algarkirk said:

    Joining EEA/EFTA (the Norway option) thus retaining Brexit and doing most of what most people now want looks a bit of a no-brainer. Very interesting that the possibility is being ignored on all sides. Is Labour keeping it for after the election?

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jun/23/britons-who-want-to-rejoin-eu-at-highest-since-2016-survey-finds

    It's not a no-brainer, because when asked about Freedom of Movement even most Remainers didn't want that. The UK public wants to access the single market without complying with the laws of the single market. The only no-brainer is the EU saying "no" to any such deal.
    Of course. But to support 'Rejoin' is of course to support FOM. The old dilemma remains - in the UK we want the trade but not the politics, and FOM counts as trade not politics for the EU, and politics not trade for most in the UK.

    There would be away round this, if one thinks John Majorishly.

    One upon a time we negotiated a 'permanent' opt out from the Euro. It is axiomatic that for pro EU types the Euro is part of the project and a good thing - that's why it exists. But we got an opt out. Silly old UK, but we can still sell them cars in exchange for Scottish lobsters.

    FOM should be seen similarly within the pro EU world - it is axiomatically a good things or we would not do it. Anyone bilaterally out of it will suffer. So, just as with the Euro, if the UK wants to have a less good membership, so be it. No-one else will be so crazy, as FOM is a good thing for all the others. Silly old UK missing out on all the French bankers in London, and being able to teach physics in Bulgaria.
    Admittedly the chances of me voting Tory were pretty slim anyway, but I will never, ever forgive them for robbing me of my European citizenship and FOM to appease a load of embittered, ignorant and racist pensioners. Pensioners who are largely insulated from the penury they are inflicting on their children and grandchildren in pursuit of returning to some imagined golden age of 1958 or some such horseshit.

    God I fucking hate what’s been done to this country. Berlin was mine, Paris was mine. The continent was mine. Gone, sacrificed on the alter of Faragism.
    And yet I have been to Paris and Berlin and many other places In Europe since Brexit with no issue at all. And I have been working in the EU and EEA.

    This whining bollocks about 'what I have lost' is just self pitying garbage by those who have only discovered their supposed 'European' identity since Brexit.

    Grow up.
    It’s not difficult to get on a plane.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    HYUFD said:

    1/ The fundamentals are bad for the Cons - very bad!

    Satisfaction with govt running the country

    - Satisfied 12% (-3 from May)
    - Dissatisfied 80% (+4)

    Net of -68 essentially the same as Truss govt score of -69 in Oct.

    87% of mortgage holders dissatisfied (!) = pre rates hike


    2/ Public becoming a bit more pessimistic about the economy again after a couple of months of improvement.

    How will the economy do in the next 12 months?

    Improve 21% (-3 from May)
    Get worse 58% (+4)
    No change 18% (-)

    Net = -37 down from -30 last month. But was -56 in Nov.


    3/ Sunak's personal poll ratings have dipped a little this month too.

    Satisfaction with performance as PM

    - Satisfied 28% (-2 from May_
    - Dissatisfied 59% (+4)
    Net = -31


    4/ Satisfaction with Starmer as Labour leader is stable

    Satisfied 31% (-)
    Dissatisfied 49% (-1)
    Net= -18

    So underwater (Blair and Cameron were both net positive when they won from opposition).

    But scores better than Sunak.


    5/ To finish ... worst govt net satisfaction ratings by PM via @IpsosUK

    Thatcher: -63 (Mar 90)
    Major: -78 (Dec 94)
    Blair: -47 (May / Nov 06)
    Brown: -62 (June 09)
    Cameron: -45 (Jul 16)
    May: -77 (Jun 19)
    Johnson: -67 (Sep 19)
    Truss: -69 (Oct 22)
    _______
    Sunak: -68 (Jun 23)

    So Sunak's government now has a net satisfaction rating higher than Major's in 1997 and higher than Truss and May's, even if slightly worse than Boris'
    No Tory polls leads since December 6th 2021.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/orderedseats.html

    Looks like it is understating the yellow peril a bit. Wells, Yeovil and Norfolk North will be back in the Lib Dem column come the next GE - the safest seat for the Tories I reckon... Castle Point.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Andy_JS said:

    "Leg-spinner Rehan Ahmed has been added to the England squad for the second Test as cover for Moeen Ali, who is struggling with a finger injury.

    The 18-year-old, who plays his county cricket for Leicestershire, took seven wickets against Pakistan on debut last winter.

    He now stands a chance of making his second Test appearance in the match at Lord's, which starts on Wednesday."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/cricket/65032548

    We could have used him at Edgbaston – the track there was very reminiscent of subcontinental wickets. Weather looks much more murky at Lord's in contrast (so you'd assume more seamer friendly).
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,349

    ...

    HYUFD said:

    eristdoof said:

    HYUFD said:

    1/ The fundamentals are bad for the Cons - very bad!

    Satisfaction with govt running the country

    - Satisfied 12% (-3 from May)
    - Dissatisfied 80% (+4)

    Net of -68 essentially the same as Truss govt score of -69 in Oct.

    87% of mortgage holders dissatisfied (!) = pre rates hike


    2/ Public becoming a bit more pessimistic about the economy again after a couple of months of improvement.

    How will the economy do in the next 12 months?

    Improve 21% (-3 from May)
    Get worse 58% (+4)
    No change 18% (-)

    Net = -37 down from -30 last month. But was -56 in Nov.


    3/ Sunak's personal poll ratings have dipped a little this month too.

    Satisfaction with performance as PM

    - Satisfied 28% (-2 from May_
    - Dissatisfied 59% (+4)
    Net = -31


    4/ Satisfaction with Starmer as Labour leader is stable

    Satisfied 31% (-)
    Dissatisfied 49% (-1)
    Net= -18

    So underwater (Blair and Cameron were both net positive when they won from opposition).

    But scores better than Sunak.


    5/ To finish ... worst govt net satisfaction ratings by PM via @IpsosUK

    Thatcher: -63 (Mar 90)
    Major: -78 (Dec 94)
    Blair: -47 (May / Nov 06)
    Brown: -62 (June 09)
    Cameron: -45 (Jul 16)
    May: -77 (Jun 19)
    Johnson: -67 (Sep 19)
    Truss: -69 (Oct 22)
    _______
    Sunak: -68 (Jun 23)

    So Sunak's government now has a net satisfaction rating higher than Major's in 1997 and higher than Truss and May's, even if slightly worse than Boris'
    A result a bit better than than Major in 1997 is still a disaster for the Tories.
    Given the Tories were heading for a 1993 Canadian Tories style wipeout and less than 50 seats under Truss last autumn, many Tory MPs would have bitten your hand off for a slightly better than Major 1997 result back then
    They were not heading for that - polling is a snapshot not a prediction, as you will know.

    Your threadbare Sunak ramping as he marches the Tory Party to crushing defeat is embarrassing.
    The problem was Truss was utterly incompetent.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,349
    Nigelb said:

    New from @ipsosuk / @standardnews - Labour lead at 22 🚨

    Labour 47% (+3 from May)
    Conservatives 25% (-3)
    Lib Dems 13% (-)
    Greens 8% (+2)
    Other 8% (-)

    1,003 GB adults interviewed by telephone 14-20 June

    Short 🧵

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1672200104759943168


    5/ To finish ... worst govt net satisfaction ratings by PM via
    @IpsosUK

    Thatcher: -63 (Mar 90)
    Major: -78 (Dec 94)
    Blair: -47 (May / Nov 06)
    Brown: -62 (June 09)
    Cameron: -45 (Jul 16)
    May: -77 (Jun 19)
    Johnson: -67 (Sep 19)
    Truss: -69 (Oct 22)
    _______
    Sunak: -68 (Jun 23)

    We don’t like our governments.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,625

    🚨New from @IpsosUK / @standardnews - Labour lead at 22 🚨

    Labour 47% (+3 from May)
    Conservatives 25% (-3)
    Lib Dems 13% (-)
    Greens 8% (+2)
    Other 8% (-)

    1,003 GB adults interviewed by telephone 14-20 June

    Short 🧵

    Still no sign of that single digit lead for Labour that was predicted three months ago by many on here.
    They only have a single digit lead over “not Labour”.
    I meant they’re approaching a single digit lead. :)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    Andy_JS said:

    "Leg-spinner Rehan Ahmed has been added to the England squad for the second Test as cover for Moeen Ali, who is struggling with a finger injury.

    The 18-year-old, who plays his county cricket for Leicestershire, took seven wickets against Pakistan on debut last winter.

    He now stands a chance of making his second Test appearance in the match at Lord's, which starts on Wednesday."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/cricket/65032548

    What a chance that is for the teenager. I hope Moeen can get himself fit, but…
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821

    🚨New from @IpsosUK / @standardnews - Labour lead at 22 🚨

    Labour 47% (+3 from May)
    Conservatives 25% (-3)
    Lib Dems 13% (-)
    Greens 8% (+2)
    Other 8% (-)

    1,003 GB adults interviewed by telephone 14-20 June

    Short 🧵

    Broken, sleazy Tories on the slide!
  • Simon_PeachSimon_Peach Posts: 424

    viewcode said:

    Miklosvar said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    148grss said:

    tlg86 said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    US Navy did hear an implosion event at the time of the submersible loss (if you can read through Cameron’s ego):

    Titanic director James Cameron: 'OceanGate were warned'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65994707

    So it sounds as the though the real reason they didn’t confirm the loss at once is they were waiting for an ROV to confirm it.

    Let me repost the vid on this I highlighted at 6am.

    A good one from Sub Brief looking at the submersible that imploded:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dka29FSZac
    The CEO didn't want 50-year old white guys. So it's a woke tragedy as well as a people have too much money tragedy.

    Everything about it sounds horrific. The comparisons with NASA and Apollo 1 are well made. NASA's first question on everything is "and how does it fail?"
    That's nothing about wokery - that's about the "tech disruptor" mindset; "we don't need specialists or experts to build a submarine, we're going to be pioneers and do it ourselves"

    Also, like, it's a good way to make sure your labour is cheap
    This is another sad example of something I've mentioned before: that far too many people come up with new schemes that replace the old, yet put 'safety' into the magic category.

    As an example of how things should be done: railways. Railways have large, often redundant, safety systems, which has led to an unprecedented safety record on our railway network. These systems are *very* expensive, and have been developed because of hard lessons taught in blood.

    So someone comes up with a new system. They realise safety is expensive, but of course, their system is safer. Therefore safety gets, at best, a hand-wave.

    We saw this with the German Maglev system, where the operators claimed collisions were impossible because of the way the system was designed. That was right before the Lathen collision that killed 23 people (1).

    We see this with (say) Hyperloop, a brain-dead scheme that gave f-all thought to safety, and would have been a human jam-maker. We see this with this submarine, where safety was very much not at the forefront of the operator's mind, and lessons from previous experience ignored (there are apparently safer deep submersibles out there). We see it with autonomous driving, where beta-testing is put on the roads with the public. etc, etc.

    The techbros need tackling on this.

    Sometimes regulation *is* good.

    (1): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lathen_train_collision
    Are you going to ban cars ?
    What a silly question. Of course not. What's your point?
    There's ~ 1500 road deaths a year. Far more dangerous than the trains.
    If you really want to stay nearly 100% safe at all times, just never get out of bed
    https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/bedsores

    Once a bedsore develops, it can take days, months, or even years to heal. It can also become infected, causing fever and chills. An infected bedsore can take a long time to clear up. As the infection spreads through your body, it can also cause mental confusion, a fast heartbeat, and generalized weakness.
    As, sadly, Christopher Reeve could attest... :(
    Not just him, by a long chalk. Lots of the very old die limbless because bedsores have got into the bone:

    https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/07/17/who-by-very-slow-decay/
    I am increasingly of the view that when I pass age X, I will book a place in Dignitas for, say, 3-5 years out, and just try to be as productive as I can in the time remaining. The last 3-5 years of life seems to be an increasingly large pile of pain and utter indignities and to be frank I just don't want it.
    My eldest grandad is 92… Rather hard of hearing…
    That’s probably just when you’re around…

  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075
    edited June 2023

    ...And yet I have been to Paris and Berlin and many other places In Europe since Brexit with no issue at all...

    Did you also go to London and Munich and if so, were they also talking about pop music?

    [ouch. It was actually "New York, London, Paris, Munich". Brain not working.]
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    Currently, according to https://grid.iamkate.com/ :

    We are at 47.4% fossil fuels, and 20.6% renewables.

    Given on windy days we can easily see these figures reversed, it's clear that a workable form of energy storage (preferably medium-term storage) is vital. Goodness knows what form that will be, though.

    Store the excess energy as heat. I think 1970's storage heaters controllable by internet for weather conditions and best spot rates for domestic use. Heated sand for industrial storage. Sand is the cheapest material and has a massive heat capacity.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,660
    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Leg-spinner Rehan Ahmed has been added to the England squad for the second Test as cover for Moeen Ali, who is struggling with a finger injury.

    The 18-year-old, who plays his county cricket for Leicestershire, took seven wickets against Pakistan on debut last winter.

    He now stands a chance of making his second Test appearance in the match at Lord's, which starts on Wednesday."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/cricket/65032548

    What a chance that is for the teenager. I hope Moeen can get himself fit, but…
    He weighs about 20 St from what I saw of him a few weeks back but definitely gets a lot of spin on right surface
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited June 2023

    ...

    HYUFD said:

    eristdoof said:

    HYUFD said:

    1/ The fundamentals are bad for the Cons - very bad!

    Satisfaction with govt running the country

    - Satisfied 12% (-3 from May)
    - Dissatisfied 80% (+4)

    Net of -68 essentially the same as Truss govt score of -69 in Oct.

    87% of mortgage holders dissatisfied (!) = pre rates hike


    2/ Public becoming a bit more pessimistic about the economy again after a couple of months of improvement.

    How will the economy do in the next 12 months?

    Improve 21% (-3 from May)
    Get worse 58% (+4)
    No change 18% (-)

    Net = -37 down from -30 last month. But was -56 in Nov.


    3/ Sunak's personal poll ratings have dipped a little this month too.

    Satisfaction with performance as PM

    - Satisfied 28% (-2 from May_
    - Dissatisfied 59% (+4)
    Net = -31


    4/ Satisfaction with Starmer as Labour leader is stable

    Satisfied 31% (-)
    Dissatisfied 49% (-1)
    Net= -18

    So underwater (Blair and Cameron were both net positive when they won from opposition).

    But scores better than Sunak.


    5/ To finish ... worst govt net satisfaction ratings by PM via @IpsosUK

    Thatcher: -63 (Mar 90)
    Major: -78 (Dec 94)
    Blair: -47 (May / Nov 06)
    Brown: -62 (June 09)
    Cameron: -45 (Jul 16)
    May: -77 (Jun 19)
    Johnson: -67 (Sep 19)
    Truss: -69 (Oct 22)
    _______
    Sunak: -68 (Jun 23)

    So Sunak's government now has a net satisfaction rating higher than Major's in 1997 and higher than Truss and May's, even if slightly worse than Boris'
    A result a bit better than than Major in 1997 is still a disaster for the Tories.
    Given the Tories were heading for a 1993 Canadian Tories style wipeout and less than 50 seats under Truss last autumn, many Tory MPs would have bitten your hand off for a slightly better than Major 1997 result back then
    They were not heading for that - polling is a snapshot not a prediction, as you will know.

    Your threadbare Sunak ramping as he marches the Tory Party to crushing defeat is embarrassing.
    They were. Truss resigned on 21 October last year, all polls in the week before her resignation had the Tories under 25%. One People Polling poll had the Tories on just 14%, Redfield had the Tories on just 19%. Results which would have left the Tories nearer 0 than 50 seats under FPTP

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,250

    Sandpit said:

    DougSeal said:

    Sandpit said:

    Woke even reaches 20,000 leagues under the sea.


    Right-wing idiots joining the left-wing idiots from yesterday, in tying to make political capital from a tragedy.

    Can people no longer think before opening their mouths online?

    The guy who built the sub was one of the victims, he wouldn’t have been there if he thought it was unsafe. That said, deep-sea exploration is unfathomably (sic) dangerous, and they all knew there was a chance of catastrophic failure.
    I sympathise with the sentiment that these deaths should not be used to make cheap political points. I feel particularly awful about the University of Strathclyde student who went on the trip with his Dad as a Father's Day present and was apparently terrified.

    Nevertheless, I think I don't think we can shy away from discussing the fact that this tragedy has resulted in eye watering amounts of public money (largely North American public money) being spent on rescue efforts and the diversion of military resources. To get on a ski slope in most places you have to take out insurance to cover the chances of something going wrong. Doing something this inherently dangerous (I read that the disclaimer mentioned 'death' three times on the first page) needs to have some sort of financial scheme to cover these eventualities. Isn't there a £10k fee for climbing Everest now?

    Also, the Titanic is a resting place for about 1500 people. Can we not leave them in peace as we do Military Maritime Graves under the Protection of Military Remains Act 1986 (although perhaps that doesn't stop tourism)?
    Most of that American money was spent anyway. It's not like they hurriedly built some ships and press-ganged some new sailors.
    In general terms, militaries usually love having a civilian emergency to deal with. For the men on the ground, it’s a chance to show off their capability, skills, and training; and for the brass hats, it’s a chance to show their value to the politicians who sign the cheques.

    It’s a different equation when volunteer rescuers are involved though - ask the mountain rescue folks, what they think of the idiots who climb a mountain in shorts and flip-flops, when it’s almost freezing at the top and fog was forecast.
    In USA, in mountain other similar rescue situations, public agencies are (mostly) the core of rescue efforts, aided by (plenty) of volunteers.

    And generally agencies such as local sheriff's departments and the like, have the ability to charge those they rescue for costs incurred. Though reckon that 90% plus of the time, they don't.
    Though you never hear of the volunteer mountain rescue or lifeboat crews, in the U.K., saying “Screw those stupid people.”

    They always go. Though you hear stories of people speaking their minds to the rescued.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Erm, she is absolutely right.

    What is the point of BoE independence if the person who is quite likely to Chancellor within a year pontificates publicly on its decisions?

    You are weirdly obsessed with Keir and now Rachel – a diversion strategy presumably given the latest polling.

    BJOFPX
  • 🚨New from @IpsosUK / @standardnews - Labour lead at 22 🚨

    Labour 47% (+3 from May)
    Conservatives 25% (-3)
    Lib Dems 13% (-)
    Greens 8% (+2)
    Other 8% (-)

    1,003 GB adults interviewed by telephone 14-20 June

    Short 🧵

    Broken, sleazy Tories on the slide!
    It never gets tired :-)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    edited June 2023

    algarkirk said:

    glw said:

    algarkirk said:

    Joining EEA/EFTA (the Norway option) thus retaining Brexit and doing most of what most people now want looks a bit of a no-brainer. Very interesting that the possibility is being ignored on all sides. Is Labour keeping it for after the election?

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jun/23/britons-who-want-to-rejoin-eu-at-highest-since-2016-survey-finds

    It's not a no-brainer, because when asked about Freedom of Movement even most Remainers didn't want that. The UK public wants to access the single market without complying with the laws of the single market. The only no-brainer is the EU saying "no" to any such deal.
    Of course. But to support 'Rejoin' is of course to support FOM. The old dilemma remains - in the UK we want the trade but not the politics, and FOM counts as trade not politics for the EU, and politics not trade for most in the UK.

    There would be away round this, if one thinks John Majorishly.

    One upon a time we negotiated a 'permanent' opt out from the Euro. It is axiomatic that for pro EU types the Euro is part of the project and a good thing - that's why it exists. But we got an opt out. Silly old UK, but we can still sell them cars in exchange for Scottish lobsters.

    FOM should be seen similarly within the pro EU world - it is axiomatically a good things or we would not do it. Anyone bilaterally out of it will suffer. So, just as with the Euro, if the UK wants to have a less good membership, so be it. No-one else will be so crazy, as FOM is a good thing for all the others. Silly old UK missing out on all the French bankers in London, and being able to teach physics in Bulgaria.
    Admittedly the chances of me voting Tory were pretty slim anyway, but I will never, ever forgive them for robbing me of my European citizenship and FOM to appease a load of embittered, ignorant and racist pensioners. Pensioners who are largely insulated from the penury they are inflicting on their children and grandchildren in pursuit of returning to some imagined golden age of 1958 or some such horseshit.

    God I fucking hate what’s been done to this country. Berlin was mine, Paris was mine. The continent was mine. Gone, sacrificed on the alter of Faragism.
    Well then you shoulda given us a referendum on Maastricht, or the Constitution, or Lisbon AS PROMISED BY ALL MAJOR PARTIES

    We would have voted No, that would have been an end to greater integration, for the UK - but we would have remained in the EU, thus avoiding Brexit

    But no, europhilies like you, in your wisdom, kept denying us a vote as our democracy was stripped away, so we ended up with your worst nightmare: Brexit

    SUCK IT UP, LOSER
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,892
    This is post-Truss orthodoxy. Truss sidelined the BoE, OBR, Treasury and any other financial institution that comes to mind and crashed the markets. That is why Reeves dare not criticise anyone at all.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,706
    edited June 2023
    This is an interesting graph.

    House prices (as multiple of earnings) are now at their highest since 1876.

    But they were consistently higher (and much higher) before then.

    https://www.schroders.com/en/global/individual/insights/what-174-years-of-data-tell-us-about-house-price-affordability-in-the-uk/
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Get a life.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,250
    FF43 said:

    Currently, according to https://grid.iamkate.com/ :

    We are at 47.4% fossil fuels, and 20.6% renewables.

    Given on windy days we can easily see these figures reversed, it's clear that a workable form of energy storage (preferably medium-term storage) is vital. Goodness knows what form that will be, though.

    Store the excess energy as heat. I think 1970's storage heaters controllable by internet for weather conditions and best spot rates for domestic use. Heated sand for industrial storage. Sand is the cheapest material and has a massive heat capacity.
    People have been trying to build such systems for years. Lots of detail problems to solve.
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    Anti-politics the Tweet says.

    This is the guy who supported a loser twice in a row and still does.

    KS is currently 22 points ahead, I think he knows a lot more about politics than you.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    A very impressive open top sports car is idling at the lights and playing Warren Zevon at 30000 decibels. right outside my flat. In the heat and the sun London suddenly feels like Santa Monica, Los Angeles, in about 1985
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Leg-spinner Rehan Ahmed has been added to the England squad for the second Test as cover for Moeen Ali, who is struggling with a finger injury.

    The 18-year-old, who plays his county cricket for Leicestershire, took seven wickets against Pakistan on debut last winter.

    He now stands a chance of making his second Test appearance in the match at Lord's, which starts on Wednesday."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/cricket/65032548

    What a chance that is for the teenager. I hope Moeen can get himself fit, but…
    He weighs about 20 St from what I saw of him a few weeks back but definitely gets a lot of spin on right surface
    Exciting to get a leggy in our Test team... who was the last leggy to play in the Ashes for England?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    Interesting how the England women's wicket keeper doesn't wear any external pads. Never noticed anyone doing that before.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,058
    viewcode said:

    ...And yet I have been to Paris and Berlin and many other places In Europe since Brexit with no issue at all...

    Did you also go to London and Munich and if so, were they also talking about pop music?

    [ouch. It was actually "New York, London, Paris, Munich". Brain not working.]
    He might have gone from Paris to Berlin and every disco...
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,660

    Anti-politics the Tweet says.

    This is the guy who supported a loser twice in a row and still does.

    KS is currently 22 points ahead, I think he knows a lot more about politics than you.
    One set of Tories being 22% ahead of the other set of Tories is not a trigger to celebrate as you will find out if SKS ever becomes PM
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,660

    Get a life.
    You are a Rupert Murdoch fan now.

    Says all we need to know about Centrist mentality.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    Nigelb said:

    This might become a trend, with DeSantis already havering.

    Hurd won’t support Trump if he’s the nominee, he says
    “I’m not going to support Donald Trump,” Hurd said.
    https://www.politico.com/news/2023/06/23/hurd-wont-support-trump-00103367

    Not committing to support the eventual nominee seems to be almost a tradition, at least early on. Trump himself likes to do the same.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,660

    Erm, she is absolutely right.

    What is the point of BoE independence if the person who is quite likely to Chancellor within a year pontificates publicly on its decisions?

    You are weirdly obsessed with Keir and now Rachel – a diversion strategy presumably given the latest polling.

    BJOFPX
    Why is the Governor of the BoE still in post.

    He is as shit at his job as SKS is at keeping pledges
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    Nigelb said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    This might become a trend, with DeSantis already havering.

    Hurd won’t support Trump if he’s the nominee, he says
    “I’m not going to support Donald Trump,” Hurd said.
    https://www.politico.com/news/2023/06/23/hurd-wont-support-trump-00103367

    Interesting, didn't know Hurd followed US politics so closely from the Lords.
    Latest GOP minnow to declare.
    Former Congressman and CIA undercover operative from Texas.

    ...The comment came when Hurd was asked whether he would sign the Republican National Committee-issued pledge to support the party’s presidential nominee, as former New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie and former Arkansas Gov. Asa Hutchinson have said they would.

    The former lawmaker took it a step further, saying Trump “100 percent” betrayed the nation if the allegations of Trump mishandling sensitive U.S. intelligence are true — stressing that he is innocent until proven guilty...


    Anyone running against Trump who doesn't say he's unfit to govern might as well not run, IMO.
    Well, anyone running on that basis is very very unlikely to win, but the attempts to thread the needle on not backing him wholeheartedly, whilst only very rarely criticising him directly and coming to his defence whenever he demands it, has not been very gratifying to witness. Some are hoping to benefit if he does self combust, but others make little sense why they oppose him.

    It's also fair to say not everyone who says they would support the nominee really will - if Trump says he will would anyone believe that, in the event the nominee was not him? But if they are making people pledge it to get in a debate, of course.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,679

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Leg-spinner Rehan Ahmed has been added to the England squad for the second Test as cover for Moeen Ali, who is struggling with a finger injury.

    The 18-year-old, who plays his county cricket for Leicestershire, took seven wickets against Pakistan on debut last winter.

    He now stands a chance of making his second Test appearance in the match at Lord's, which starts on Wednesday."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/cricket/65032548

    What a chance that is for the teenager. I hope Moeen can get himself fit, but…
    He weighs about 20 St from what I saw of him a few weeks back but definitely gets a lot of spin on right surface
    Exciting to get a leggy in our Test team... who was the last leggy to play in the Ashes for England?
    Eric Hollies?
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,324
    Andy_JS said:

    "Leg-spinner Rehan Ahmed has been added to the England squad for the second Test as cover for Moeen Ali, who is struggling with a finger injury.

    The 18-year-old, who plays his county cricket for Leicestershire, took seven wickets against Pakistan on debut last winter.

    He now stands a chance of making his second Test appearance in the match at Lord's, which starts on Wednesday."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/cricket/65032548

    Wondered if they'd do that.

    Personally I'd take the chance but of course it could go horribly wrong.
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855

    Sandpit said:

    DougSeal said:

    Sandpit said:

    Woke even reaches 20,000 leagues under the sea.


    Right-wing idiots joining the left-wing idiots from yesterday, in tying to make political capital from a tragedy.

    Can people no longer think before opening their mouths online?

    The guy who built the sub was one of the victims, he wouldn’t have been there if he thought it was unsafe. That said, deep-sea exploration is unfathomably (sic) dangerous, and they all knew there was a chance of catastrophic failure.
    I sympathise with the sentiment that these deaths should not be used to make cheap political points. I feel particularly awful about the University of Strathclyde student who went on the trip with his Dad as a Father's Day present and was apparently terrified.

    Nevertheless, I think I don't think we can shy away from discussing the fact that this tragedy has resulted in eye watering amounts of public money (largely North American public money) being spent on rescue efforts and the diversion of military resources. To get on a ski slope in most places you have to take out insurance to cover the chances of something going wrong. Doing something this inherently dangerous (I read that the disclaimer mentioned 'death' three times on the first page) needs to have some sort of financial scheme to cover these eventualities. Isn't there a £10k fee for climbing Everest now?

    Also, the Titanic is a resting place for about 1500 people. Can we not leave them in peace as we do Military Maritime Graves under the Protection of Military Remains Act 1986 (although perhaps that doesn't stop tourism)?
    Most of that American money was spent anyway. It's not like they hurriedly built some ships and press-ganged some new sailors.
    In general terms, militaries usually love having a civilian emergency to deal with. For the men on the ground, it’s a chance to show off their capability, skills, and training; and for the brass hats, it’s a chance to show their value to the politicians who sign the cheques.

    It’s a different equation when volunteer rescuers are involved though - ask the mountain rescue folks, what they think of the idiots who climb a mountain in shorts and flip-flops, when it’s almost freezing at the top and fog was forecast.
    In USA, in mountain other similar rescue situations, public agencies are (mostly) the core of rescue efforts, aided by (plenty) of volunteers.

    And generally agencies such as local sheriff's departments and the like, have the ability to charge those they rescue for costs incurred. Though reckon that 90% plus of the time, they don't.
    Though you never hear of the volunteer mountain rescue or lifeboat crews, in the U.K., saying “Screw those stupid people.”

    They always go. Though you hear stories of people speaking their minds to the rescued.
    Volunteer means what it says. Presumably they don’t sign up in the expectation of rescuing Chris Bonington or Ben Ainslie.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    edited June 2023
    kinabalu said:

    Roger said:

    glw said:

    algarkirk said:

    Joining EEA/EFTA (the Norway option) thus retaining Brexit and doing most of what most people now want looks a bit of a no-brainer. Very interesting that the possibility is being ignored on all sides. Is Labour keeping it for after the election?

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jun/23/britons-who-want-to-rejoin-eu-at-highest-since-2016-survey-finds

    It's not a no-brainer, because when asked about Freedom of Movement even most Remainers didn't want that. The UK public wants to access the single market without complying with the laws of the single market. The only no-brainer is the EU saying "no" to any such deal.
    According to Perter Kellner on radio 4 yesterday that is incorrect. Only 23% now don't want freedom of movement for EU citizens. Well worth reading his piece in the European.
    Yes let's have that back please. Freedom to live and work almost anywhere in Europe. How can it be progress to lose that?
    In the spirit of fraternal love, I will reach across the divide here, and agree with you. For a Leaver like me, the one thing I deeply regret about Brexit is losing FoM. It was a wonderful thing. It nearly swung me to vote Remain, but in the end sovereignty and democracy edged it. Close call

    I hoped that we would end up with a Brexit somehow in the SM, so we kept FoM. However I also accept that my job was not menaced by millions of Bulgarian dildo knappers coming over to Britain undercutting my trade, and I entirely accept that others felt differently. Voting Leave to lower immigration and control the borders was a legitimate aspiration, certainly not inherently "racist"

    That said, the Tories have failed to lower immigration - it is now higher than ever (albeit we are getting more skilled migrants than unskilled, which is good); and nor do we have control of the border, the boats cross the Channel every day, apparently unstoppable

    In that light, who cares about European migration on top of that? They won't come here in any greater numbers than they do already, coz the economy has cratered

    A reformed Brexit where we regained FoM in some form would seem to satisfy most people. We would still be sovereign and independent, BUT people like @northern_monkey and @roger would get their precious European identity back. If Starmer can sort this out (not gonna be easy) I might actively support his party

  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    MikeL said:

    This is an interesting graph.

    House prices (as multiple of earnings) are now at their highest since 1876.

    But they were consistently higher (and much higher) before then.

    https://www.schroders.com/en/global/individual/insights/what-174-years-of-data-tell-us-about-house-price-affordability-in-the-uk/

    Yes.

    Incidentally at the moment the same data sources would give £286,000/£32,300 = 8.9x, down from 9.1x. One to keep an eye on because flat prices and wage increases should help bring things down... a bit.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Republicans complaining that, after being found liable for defamation, you can't continue to libel the plaintiff without consequences.

    This is the chief political correspondent of the Washington Examiner. Who is clearly very stupid indeed.

    https://twitter.com/ByronYork/status/1672225672314404867
    By the low standards of a civil case, a jury found Trump guilty of a decades-old instance of 'sexual abuse.' He maintains he is innocent and that his accuser is lying, or mistaken, or delusional, or something. Now, he will be tried again for saying that...

    ...After criminal convictions in very serious matters, isn't it common for defendants to continue to maintain their innocence? To say that their accusers are lying, or mistaken, or delusional, or something? Should they face additional charges for maintaining their innocence?
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    For adhering to a system put in place by notorious Tory Gordon Brown?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,250
    MikeL said:

    This is an interesting graph.

    House prices (as multiple of earnings) are now at their highest since 1876.

    But they were consistently higher (and much higher) before then.

    https://www.schroders.com/en/global/individual/insights/what-174-years-of-data-tell-us-about-house-price-affordability-in-the-uk/

    That is some excellent research. One of the features of the Industrial Revolution was the continuous fall in the prices of manufactured goods, from increased productivity.

    Before the IR, a simple shirt cost as much as an expensive Paul Smith t-shirt. Industrialisation gave us Primark.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Would the Remoaners on here finally STFU if we got a reformed Brexit that gave us back Freedom of Movement?

    It seems to be the most emotive and profound loss, from Brexit, for a majority of Remainery people (and I share some of the pain, as I say). Perhaps that is the place where Britain could finally reconcile. Brexit Plus. Brexit Plus Freedom of Movement
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,660

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Leg-spinner Rehan Ahmed has been added to the England squad for the second Test as cover for Moeen Ali, who is struggling with a finger injury.

    The 18-year-old, who plays his county cricket for Leicestershire, took seven wickets against Pakistan on debut last winter.

    He now stands a chance of making his second Test appearance in the match at Lord's, which starts on Wednesday."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/cricket/65032548

    What a chance that is for the teenager. I hope Moeen can get himself fit, but…
    He weighs about 20 St from what I saw of him a few weeks back but definitely gets a lot of spin on right surface
    Exciting to get a leggy in our Test team... who was the last leggy to play in the Ashes for England?
    Eric Hollies?
    Used to get loads of wickets as the batsmen were required to put on fancy dress in their stands
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075
    edited June 2023
    Sean_F said:

    The problem was Truss was utterly incompetent.

    It's worse than that. She was competent at fighting the last war. She was well-trained, well prepared. She'd read the text books, learned the lessons. She knew what the problem was and how to fix it. She placed allies in command positions and started the battle.

    And died.

    We've been here before. People launch wars, start conflicts, fly planes and pilot ships. And when the rules change and things stop working like they used to, they get baffled, confused, still fight using old techniques, and then die. Sound barrier? You pull the yoke down, not up. Machine guns? Stop marching towards them and build trenches. Atomic weapons? Remove them from theatre commanders and fight wars thru proxies instead of directly.

    The neoliberal consensus 1979?-2015? doesn't work any more. We'll work out what works eventually, but right now we don't know what we're doing.

    Both Rishi Sunak and Rachel Reeves are intelligent, well dressed apparachiks who don't understand the world has changed, and they're going to drive us straight into the cliff. And die baffled, while we pick up the pieces.

  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited June 2023

    HYUFD said:

    1/ The fundamentals are bad for the Cons - very bad!

    Satisfaction with govt running the country

    - Satisfied 12% (-3 from May)
    - Dissatisfied 80% (+4)

    Net of -68 essentially the same as Truss govt score of -69 in Oct.

    87% of mortgage holders dissatisfied (!) = pre rates hike


    2/ Public becoming a bit more pessimistic about the economy again after a couple of months of improvement.

    How will the economy do in the next 12 months?

    Improve 21% (-3 from May)
    Get worse 58% (+4)
    No change 18% (-)

    Net = -37 down from -30 last month. But was -56 in Nov.


    3/ Sunak's personal poll ratings have dipped a little this month too.

    Satisfaction with performance as PM

    - Satisfied 28% (-2 from May_
    - Dissatisfied 59% (+4)
    Net = -31


    4/ Satisfaction with Starmer as Labour leader is stable

    Satisfied 31% (-)
    Dissatisfied 49% (-1)
    Net= -18

    So underwater (Blair and Cameron were both net positive when they won from opposition).

    But scores better than Sunak.


    5/ To finish ... worst govt net satisfaction ratings by PM via @IpsosUK

    Thatcher: -63 (Mar 90)
    Major: -78 (Dec 94)
    Blair: -47 (May / Nov 06)
    Brown: -62 (June 09)
    Cameron: -45 (Jul 16)
    May: -77 (Jun 19)
    Johnson: -67 (Sep 19)
    Truss: -69 (Oct 22)
    _______
    Sunak: -68 (Jun 23)

    So Sunak's government now has a net satisfaction rating higher than Major's in 1997 and higher than Truss and May's, even if slightly worse than Boris'
    Actually, by 1997, net satisfaction with Major's government had perked up a bit to -46 (23 :) 69 :(; it was 8 :) 86 :( at the nadir). Not that it did him much good.

    Part of Sunak's problem is that there's so much time left. And whilst that might be time to make things better, it might also make things a whole lot worse.
    Also, and you pointed this out the other day, Sunak is not Major.

    Major evinced a certain empathy. He was a “decent man” who had been dealt a bad hand, and was surrounded by bastards. Also, he had been elected in 1992.

    Sunak, while grudgingly assumed to be more level-headed than his predecessors, can’t shake off the image of an out-of-depth and overly self-regarding junior management consultant. Who was foisted upon the country by the hated Tory party.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075
    edited June 2023
    [deleted: more violent than I intended]
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075
    Miklosvar said:

    For adhering to a system put in place by notorious Tory Gordon Brown?
    The solutions of 1998 are now the problems of 2023. They're pushing on a piece of string and not caring that it doesn't work any more.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288

    Erm, she is absolutely right.

    What is the point of BoE independence if the person who is quite likely to Chancellor within a year pontificates publicly on its decisions?

    You are weirdly obsessed with Keir and now Rachel – a diversion strategy presumably given the latest polling.

    BJOFPX
    Why is the Governor of the BoE still in post.

    He is as shit at his job as SKS is at keeping pledges
    Bailey decisions and indeed whether he is the right man for the job can certainly be questioned, but that's a behind the scenes matter for a shadow minister talking about a public official. Not that it's stopped the Tory press having a pile in, as they continue to go round like the Spanish inquisition looking for the heretics hexxing this blameless government.

    RR perfectly correct not to play that game.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,421
    HYUFD said:

    ...

    HYUFD said:

    eristdoof said:

    HYUFD said:

    1/ The fundamentals are bad for the Cons - very bad!

    Satisfaction with govt running the country

    - Satisfied 12% (-3 from May)
    - Dissatisfied 80% (+4)

    Net of -68 essentially the same as Truss govt score of -69 in Oct.

    87% of mortgage holders dissatisfied (!) = pre rates hike


    2/ Public becoming a bit more pessimistic about the economy again after a couple of months of improvement.

    How will the economy do in the next 12 months?

    Improve 21% (-3 from May)
    Get worse 58% (+4)
    No change 18% (-)

    Net = -37 down from -30 last month. But was -56 in Nov.


    3/ Sunak's personal poll ratings have dipped a little this month too.

    Satisfaction with performance as PM

    - Satisfied 28% (-2 from May_
    - Dissatisfied 59% (+4)
    Net = -31


    4/ Satisfaction with Starmer as Labour leader is stable

    Satisfied 31% (-)
    Dissatisfied 49% (-1)
    Net= -18

    So underwater (Blair and Cameron were both net positive when they won from opposition).

    But scores better than Sunak.


    5/ To finish ... worst govt net satisfaction ratings by PM via @IpsosUK

    Thatcher: -63 (Mar 90)
    Major: -78 (Dec 94)
    Blair: -47 (May / Nov 06)
    Brown: -62 (June 09)
    Cameron: -45 (Jul 16)
    May: -77 (Jun 19)
    Johnson: -67 (Sep 19)
    Truss: -69 (Oct 22)
    _______
    Sunak: -68 (Jun 23)

    So Sunak's government now has a net satisfaction rating higher than Major's in 1997 and higher than Truss and May's, even if slightly worse than Boris'
    A result a bit better than than Major in 1997 is still a disaster for the Tories.
    Given the Tories were heading for a 1993 Canadian Tories style wipeout and less than 50 seats under Truss last autumn, many Tory MPs would have bitten your hand off for a slightly better than Major 1997 result back then
    They were not heading for that - polling is a snapshot not a prediction, as you will know.

    Your threadbare Sunak ramping as he marches the Tory Party to crushing defeat is embarrassing.
    They were. Truss resigned on 21 October last year, all polls in the week before her resignation had the Tories under 25%. One People Polling poll had the Tories on just 14%, Redfield had the Tories on just 19%. Results which would have left the Tories nearer 0 than 50 seats under FPTP

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election
    They were not, because a GE was not due to take place in the week before/after her resignation. Had a GE been imminent, then yes, your point would have some validity.

    Under Sunak, the Tories have made a modest recovery which indicates little except some died in the wool Tory supporters reverting to type. There is no indication that had Truss stayed, this wouldn't still have happened.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    edited June 2023

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Leg-spinner Rehan Ahmed has been added to the England squad for the second Test as cover for Moeen Ali, who is struggling with a finger injury.

    The 18-year-old, who plays his county cricket for Leicestershire, took seven wickets against Pakistan on debut last winter.

    He now stands a chance of making his second Test appearance in the match at Lord's, which starts on Wednesday."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/cricket/65032548

    What a chance that is for the teenager. I hope Moeen can get himself fit, but…
    He weighs about 20 St from what I saw of him a few weeks back but definitely gets a lot of spin on right surface
    Exciting to get a leggy in our Test team... who was the last leggy to play in the Ashes for England?
    Eric Hollies?
    Mason Crane.
    One appearance, and one wicket in 2018.

    Australia made the small matter of 649/7 dec.
    https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/england-in-australia-and-new-zealand-2017-18-1072261/australia-vs-england-5th-test-1072309/full-scorecard
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821

    Anti-politics the Tweet says.

    This is the guy who supported a loser twice in a row and still does.

    KS is currently 22 points ahead, I think he knows a lot more about politics than you.
    One set of Tories being 22% ahead of the other set of Tories is not a trigger to celebrate as you will find out if SKS ever becomes PM
    ToryJohnOwls
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    James Cameron criticises the mission to the Titanic, which is a bit odd since he's done it himself 33 times.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    HYUFD said:

    ...

    HYUFD said:

    eristdoof said:

    HYUFD said:

    1/ The fundamentals are bad for the Cons - very bad!

    Satisfaction with govt running the country

    - Satisfied 12% (-3 from May)
    - Dissatisfied 80% (+4)

    Net of -68 essentially the same as Truss govt score of -69 in Oct.

    87% of mortgage holders dissatisfied (!) = pre rates hike


    2/ Public becoming a bit more pessimistic about the economy again after a couple of months of improvement.

    How will the economy do in the next 12 months?

    Improve 21% (-3 from May)
    Get worse 58% (+4)
    No change 18% (-)

    Net = -37 down from -30 last month. But was -56 in Nov.


    3/ Sunak's personal poll ratings have dipped a little this month too.

    Satisfaction with performance as PM

    - Satisfied 28% (-2 from May_
    - Dissatisfied 59% (+4)
    Net = -31


    4/ Satisfaction with Starmer as Labour leader is stable

    Satisfied 31% (-)
    Dissatisfied 49% (-1)
    Net= -18

    So underwater (Blair and Cameron were both net positive when they won from opposition).

    But scores better than Sunak.


    5/ To finish ... worst govt net satisfaction ratings by PM via @IpsosUK

    Thatcher: -63 (Mar 90)
    Major: -78 (Dec 94)
    Blair: -47 (May / Nov 06)
    Brown: -62 (June 09)
    Cameron: -45 (Jul 16)
    May: -77 (Jun 19)
    Johnson: -67 (Sep 19)
    Truss: -69 (Oct 22)
    _______
    Sunak: -68 (Jun 23)

    So Sunak's government now has a net satisfaction rating higher than Major's in 1997 and higher than Truss and May's, even if slightly worse than Boris'
    A result a bit better than than Major in 1997 is still a disaster for the Tories.
    Given the Tories were heading for a 1993 Canadian Tories style wipeout and less than 50 seats under Truss last autumn, many Tory MPs would have bitten your hand off for a slightly better than Major 1997 result back then
    They were not heading for that - polling is a snapshot not a prediction, as you will know.

    Your threadbare Sunak ramping as he marches the Tory Party to crushing defeat is embarrassing.
    They were. Truss resigned on 21 October last year, all polls in the week before her resignation had the Tories under 25%. One People Polling poll had the Tories on just 14%, Redfield had the Tories on just 19%. Results which would have left the Tories nearer 0 than 50 seats under FPTP

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election
    They were not, because a GE was not due to take place in the week before/after her resignation. Had a GE been imminent, then yes, your point would have some validity.

    Under Sunak, the Tories have made a modest recovery which indicates little except some died in the wool Tory supporters reverting to type. There is no indication that had Truss stayed, this wouldn't still have happened.
    The minor recovery has only happened under Sunak, had Truss stayed the polling evidence is the Tories would not only have lost to Labour by a landslide but ceased to be the main Opposition. The LDs or SNP may well have won more MPs than the Truss Tories would have
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,421

    Erm, she is absolutely right.

    What is the point of BoE independence if the person who is quite likely to Chancellor within a year pontificates publicly on its decisions?

    You are weirdly obsessed with Keir and now Rachel – a diversion strategy presumably given the latest polling.

    BJOFPX
    A braver politician might have said that she was looking forward to discussing these things with Andrew Bailey and the MPC, and that it was important to establish whether the Bank's current mandate was serving the economy as it should be.

    Rishi and Hunt have put aside £49billion of taxpayers money this year alone, to fund the Bank selling UK Government bonds off at a loss, which in turn destabilises the bond market and leads to the borrowing costs we've seen. That should be stopped now, and it inspires zero confidence in Reeve's character or ability that she hasn't promised to examine this.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    Leon said:

    Would the Remoaners on here finally STFU if we got a reformed Brexit that gave us back Freedom of Movement?

    It seems to be the most emotive and profound loss, from Brexit, for a majority of Remainery people (and I share some of the pain, as I say). Perhaps that is the place where Britain could finally reconcile. Brexit Plus. Brexit Plus Freedom of Movement

    In other words single market, which even Starmer won't touch for now for fear of losing the redwall marginals again
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075
    Andy_JS said:

    James Cameron criticises the mission to the Titanic, which is a bit odd since he's done it himself 33 times.

    ...and survived. Which may be the point. :(
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,679
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Leg-spinner Rehan Ahmed has been added to the England squad for the second Test as cover for Moeen Ali, who is struggling with a finger injury.

    The 18-year-old, who plays his county cricket for Leicestershire, took seven wickets against Pakistan on debut last winter.

    He now stands a chance of making his second Test appearance in the match at Lord's, which starts on Wednesday."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/cricket/65032548

    What a chance that is for the teenager. I hope Moeen can get himself fit, but…
    He weighs about 20 St from what I saw of him a few weeks back but definitely gets a lot of spin on right surface
    Exciting to get a leggy in our Test team... who was the last leggy to play in the Ashes for England?
    Eric Hollies?
    Mason Crane.
    One appearance, and one wicket in 2018.

    Australia made the small matter of 649/7 dec.
    https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/england-in-australia-and-new-zealand-2017-18-1072261/australia-vs-england-5th-test-1072309/full-scorecard
    Mark Stoneman - there's an England opening completely wiped from my memory.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Would the Remoaners on here finally STFU if we got a reformed Brexit that gave us back Freedom of Movement?

    It seems to be the most emotive and profound loss, from Brexit, for a majority of Remainery people (and I share some of the pain, as I say). Perhaps that is the place where Britain could finally reconcile. Brexit Plus. Brexit Plus Freedom of Movement

    In other words single market, which even Starmer won't touch for now for fear of losing the redwall marginals again
    No, I am talking about some bespoke arrangement, perhaps NOT in the Single Market (as @williamglenn rightly ponts out, that comes with a lot of hassles). A special arrangement where the UK agrees to FoM, and that's it. We might have to pay for it. The EU might welcome it. Who knows. Worth trying
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    FF43 said:

    Currently, according to https://grid.iamkate.com/ :

    We are at 47.4% fossil fuels, and 20.6% renewables.

    Given on windy days we can easily see these figures reversed, it's clear that a workable form of energy storage (preferably medium-term storage) is vital. Goodness knows what form that will be, though.

    Store the excess energy as heat. I think 1970's storage heaters controllable by internet for weather conditions and best spot rates for domestic use. Heated sand for industrial storage. Sand is the cheapest material and has a massive heat capacity.
    People have been trying to build such systems for years. Lots of detail problems to solve.
    What are the main problems with sand based heat storage for excess electricity production, bearing in mind the economic case only has to be justified on the marginal cost at peak prices?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Would the Remoaners on here finally STFU if we got a reformed Brexit that gave us back Freedom of Movement?

    It seems to be the most emotive and profound loss, from Brexit, for a majority of Remainery people (and I share some of the pain, as I say). Perhaps that is the place where Britain could finally reconcile. Brexit Plus. Brexit Plus Freedom of Movement

    In other words single market, which even Starmer won't touch for now for fear of losing the redwall marginals again
    No, I am talking about some bespoke arrangement, perhaps NOT in the Single Market (as @williamglenn rightly ponts out, that comes with a lot of hassles). A special arrangement where the UK agrees to FoM, and that's it. We might have to pay for it. The EU might welcome it. Who knows. Worth trying
    You mean an agreement like the EU has with Switzerland?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    Nigelb said:
    The overturning of Roe places the matter in the capable hands of the voters; just like in the UK.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Would the Remoaners on here finally STFU if we got a reformed Brexit that gave us back Freedom of Movement?

    It seems to be the most emotive and profound loss, from Brexit, for a majority of Remainery people (and I share some of the pain, as I say). Perhaps that is the place where Britain could finally reconcile. Brexit Plus. Brexit Plus Freedom of Movement

    In other words single market, which even Starmer won't touch for now for fear of losing the redwall marginals again
    No, I am talking about some bespoke arrangement, perhaps NOT in the Single Market (as @williamglenn rightly ponts out, that comes with a lot of hassles). A special arrangement where the UK agrees to FoM, and that's it. We might have to pay for it. The EU might welcome it. Who knows. Worth trying
    It is the UK agreeing to FOM which the redwall voted against in the first place, they might even have accepted Single Market minus FoM
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,250
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Currently, according to https://grid.iamkate.com/ :

    We are at 47.4% fossil fuels, and 20.6% renewables.

    Given on windy days we can easily see these figures reversed, it's clear that a workable form of energy storage (preferably medium-term storage) is vital. Goodness knows what form that will be, though.

    Store the excess energy as heat. I think 1970's storage heaters controllable by internet for weather conditions and best spot rates for domestic use. Heated sand for industrial storage. Sand is the cheapest material and has a massive heat capacity.
    People have been trying to build such systems for years. Lots of detail problems to solve.
    What are the main problems with sand based heat storage for excess electricity production, bearing in mind the economic case only has to be justified on the marginal cost at peak prices?
    Well, you now have a pile of red to sand. How do you get the heat back, efficiently?

    This leads to molten salts, eutectic (lead/bismuth) etc...
  • Eabhal said:

    Apparently the new extension to the trams in Edinburgh has doubled passenger numbers, including on the original line. The extension runs down Leith Walk, one of the most densely populated and low car ownership areas in Scotland.

    Build it and they will come. The lack of infrastructure investment in the UK, whether it's HS2, Northern Powerhouse, trams, cycle lanes, ferries, or even roads (the A9) drives me crazy.

    I'd like to think there is a PB consensus about diverting more public spending into this kinda stuff. And retaining the workforce, skills and supply chains for it - why isn't the next extension to the tram already starting? Once the first bit is done, keep going and going and going.

    Absolutely, we need to build more motorways, and then once those are built, build more.

    The lack of development of roads is a major problem.

    We have a motorway network with a lack of capacity and a lack of redundancy. If the M6 is shut due an an accident then what's the detour? Which motorway runs parallel that can be used as an alternative?

    There is none, its like the M6 was built so 'job done' for that and then just use A-roads if there's any issues, which there perpetually are.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,250
    Andy_JS said:

    James Cameron criticises the mission to the Titanic, which is a bit odd since he's done it himself 33 times.

    Using high quality, properly designed, rated and tested equipment.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,421
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ...

    HYUFD said:

    eristdoof said:

    HYUFD said:

    1/ The fundamentals are bad for the Cons - very bad!

    Satisfaction with govt running the country

    - Satisfied 12% (-3 from May)
    - Dissatisfied 80% (+4)

    Net of -68 essentially the same as Truss govt score of -69 in Oct.

    87% of mortgage holders dissatisfied (!) = pre rates hike


    2/ Public becoming a bit more pessimistic about the economy again after a couple of months of improvement.

    How will the economy do in the next 12 months?

    Improve 21% (-3 from May)
    Get worse 58% (+4)
    No change 18% (-)

    Net = -37 down from -30 last month. But was -56 in Nov.


    3/ Sunak's personal poll ratings have dipped a little this month too.

    Satisfaction with performance as PM

    - Satisfied 28% (-2 from May_
    - Dissatisfied 59% (+4)
    Net = -31


    4/ Satisfaction with Starmer as Labour leader is stable

    Satisfied 31% (-)
    Dissatisfied 49% (-1)
    Net= -18

    So underwater (Blair and Cameron were both net positive when they won from opposition).

    But scores better than Sunak.


    5/ To finish ... worst govt net satisfaction ratings by PM via @IpsosUK

    Thatcher: -63 (Mar 90)
    Major: -78 (Dec 94)
    Blair: -47 (May / Nov 06)
    Brown: -62 (June 09)
    Cameron: -45 (Jul 16)
    May: -77 (Jun 19)
    Johnson: -67 (Sep 19)
    Truss: -69 (Oct 22)
    _______
    Sunak: -68 (Jun 23)

    So Sunak's government now has a net satisfaction rating higher than Major's in 1997 and higher than Truss and May's, even if slightly worse than Boris'
    A result a bit better than than Major in 1997 is still a disaster for the Tories.
    Given the Tories were heading for a 1993 Canadian Tories style wipeout and less than 50 seats under Truss last autumn, many Tory MPs would have bitten your hand off for a slightly better than Major 1997 result back then
    They were not heading for that - polling is a snapshot not a prediction, as you will know.

    Your threadbare Sunak ramping as he marches the Tory Party to crushing defeat is embarrassing.
    They were. Truss resigned on 21 October last year, all polls in the week before her resignation had the Tories under 25%. One People Polling poll had the Tories on just 14%, Redfield had the Tories on just 19%. Results which would have left the Tories nearer 0 than 50 seats under FPTP

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election
    They were not, because a GE was not due to take place in the week before/after her resignation. Had a GE been imminent, then yes, your point would have some validity.

    Under Sunak, the Tories have made a modest recovery which indicates little except some died in the wool Tory supporters reverting to type. There is no indication that had Truss stayed, this wouldn't still have happened.
    The minor recovery has only happened under Sunak, had Truss stayed the polling evidence is the Tories would not only have lost to Labour by a landslide but ceased to be the main Opposition. The LDs or SNP may well have won more MPs than the Truss Tories would have
    I don't see what polling evidence there could be that could prove this hypothetical situation, but by all means present some.

    Truss was prepared to be unpopular (not that unpopular obvs.) in the short term because she believed that there was a pay off in her policies that would manifest itself before the GE - a healthier economy, more affordable childcare, increased energy supply leading to lower bills, increased food supply leading to lower food costs, increased investment from the cancelling of the CT rise etc.

    Had those policies borne fruit, a modest, or even non-modest polling recovery could have taken place. Even if they hadn't, one would still expect a small recovery as the mini-budget fiasco died as a news story.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Would the Remoaners on here finally STFU if we got a reformed Brexit that gave us back Freedom of Movement?

    It seems to be the most emotive and profound loss, from Brexit, for a majority of Remainery people (and I share some of the pain, as I say). Perhaps that is the place where Britain could finally reconcile. Brexit Plus. Brexit Plus Freedom of Movement

    In other words single market, which even Starmer won't touch for now for fear of losing the redwall marginals again
    No, I am talking about some bespoke arrangement, perhaps NOT in the Single Market (as @williamglenn rightly ponts out, that comes with a lot of hassles). A special arrangement where the UK agrees to FoM, and that's it. We might have to pay for it. The EU might welcome it. Who knows. Worth trying
    You mean an agreement like the EU has with Switzerland?
    Closer to that, yes
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    algarkirk said:

    Nigelb said:
    The overturning of Roe places the matter in the capable hands of the voters; just like in the UK.
    It does have that to recommend it, although they don't seem generally to have an issue getting the Court to continue to decide tricky matters.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Currently, according to https://grid.iamkate.com/ :

    We are at 47.4% fossil fuels, and 20.6% renewables.

    Given on windy days we can easily see these figures reversed, it's clear that a workable form of energy storage (preferably medium-term storage) is vital. Goodness knows what form that will be, though.

    Store the excess energy as heat. I think 1970's storage heaters controllable by internet for weather conditions and best spot rates for domestic use. Heated sand for industrial storage. Sand is the cheapest material and has a massive heat capacity.
    People have been trying to build such systems for years. Lots of detail problems to solve.
    What are the main problems with sand based heat storage for excess electricity production, bearing in mind the economic case only has to be justified on the marginal cost at peak prices?
    Well, you now have a pile of red to sand. How do you get the heat back, efficiently?

    This leads to molten salts, eutectic (lead/bismuth) etc...
    I know you two are going to bang back and forth about energy-to-heat-to-heat-storage-to-energy all day - molten salts! - so I'll just say "you know we can pump water up a mountain and let it flow back down", like we've been doing for forty years, and leave it there :)
  • glwglw Posts: 9,906
    Eabhal said:

    Apparently the new extension to the trams in Edinburgh has doubled passenger numbers, including on the original line. The extension runs down Leith Walk, one of the most densely populated and low car ownership areas in Scotland.

    Build it and they will come. The lack of infrastructure investment in the UK, whether it's HS2, Northern Powerhouse, trams, cycle lanes, ferries, or even roads (the A9) drives me crazy.

    I'd like to think there is a PB consensus about diverting more public spending into this kinda stuff. And retaining the workforce, skills and supply chains for it - why isn't the next extension to the tram already starting? Once the first bit is done, keep going and going and going.

    PC consensus maybe, but Britain is full of NIMBY and BANANA types, and a political class that as a whole is afraid of challenging the electorate, and only offers minor differences in policy, with little to no ambition or planning for the long term.

    Does anyone actually believe that the result of the next general election will have even a marginal effect on dealing with the problems we currently face, or those we can easily anticipate? I sure as hell don't.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    Andy_JS said:

    James Cameron criticises the mission to the Titanic, which is a bit odd since he's done it himself 33 times.

    Using high quality, properly designed, rated and tested equipment.
    Sounds rather elitist to me.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ...

    HYUFD said:

    eristdoof said:

    HYUFD said:

    1/ The fundamentals are bad for the Cons - very bad!

    Satisfaction with govt running the country

    - Satisfied 12% (-3 from May)
    - Dissatisfied 80% (+4)

    Net of -68 essentially the same as Truss govt score of -69 in Oct.

    87% of mortgage holders dissatisfied (!) = pre rates hike


    2/ Public becoming a bit more pessimistic about the economy again after a couple of months of improvement.

    How will the economy do in the next 12 months?

    Improve 21% (-3 from May)
    Get worse 58% (+4)
    No change 18% (-)

    Net = -37 down from -30 last month. But was -56 in Nov.


    3/ Sunak's personal poll ratings have dipped a little this month too.

    Satisfaction with performance as PM

    - Satisfied 28% (-2 from May_
    - Dissatisfied 59% (+4)
    Net = -31


    4/ Satisfaction with Starmer as Labour leader is stable

    Satisfied 31% (-)
    Dissatisfied 49% (-1)
    Net= -18

    So underwater (Blair and Cameron were both net positive when they won from opposition).

    But scores better than Sunak.


    5/ To finish ... worst govt net satisfaction ratings by PM via @IpsosUK

    Thatcher: -63 (Mar 90)
    Major: -78 (Dec 94)
    Blair: -47 (May / Nov 06)
    Brown: -62 (June 09)
    Cameron: -45 (Jul 16)
    May: -77 (Jun 19)
    Johnson: -67 (Sep 19)
    Truss: -69 (Oct 22)
    _______
    Sunak: -68 (Jun 23)

    So Sunak's government now has a net satisfaction rating higher than Major's in 1997 and higher than Truss and May's, even if slightly worse than Boris'
    A result a bit better than than Major in 1997 is still a disaster for the Tories.
    Given the Tories were heading for a 1993 Canadian Tories style wipeout and less than 50 seats under Truss last autumn, many Tory MPs would have bitten your hand off for a slightly better than Major 1997 result back then
    They were not heading for that - polling is a snapshot not a prediction, as you will know.

    Your threadbare Sunak ramping as he marches the Tory Party to crushing defeat is embarrassing.
    They were. Truss resigned on 21 October last year, all polls in the week before her resignation had the Tories under 25%. One People Polling poll had the Tories on just 14%, Redfield had the Tories on just 19%. Results which would have left the Tories nearer 0 than 50 seats under FPTP

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election
    They were not, because a GE was not due to take place in the week before/after her resignation. Had a GE been imminent, then yes, your point would have some validity.

    Under Sunak, the Tories have made a modest recovery which indicates little except some died in the wool Tory supporters reverting to type. There is no indication that had Truss stayed, this wouldn't still have happened.
    The minor recovery has only happened under Sunak, had Truss stayed the polling evidence is the Tories would not only have lost to Labour by a landslide but ceased to be the main Opposition. The LDs or SNP may well have won more MPs than the Truss Tories would have
    I don't see what polling evidence there could be that could prove this hypothetical situation, but by all means present some.

    Truss was prepared to be unpopular (not that unpopular obvs.) in the short term because she believed that there was a pay off in her policies that would manifest itself before the GE - a healthier economy, more affordable childcare, increased energy supply leading to lower bills, increased food supply leading to lower food costs, increased investment from the cancelling of the CT rise etc.

    Had those policies borne fruit, a modest, or even non-modest polling recovery could have taken place. Even if they hadn't, one would still expect a small recovery as the mini-budget fiasco died as a news story.

    I have just given you one.

    Put in the last Redfield poll under Truss' Premiership and you got Labour 571 seats, SNP 33, LDs 19 and Tories just 6.

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/magnified-email/issue-53/

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=19&LAB=55&LIB=12&Reform=4&Green=4&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=17.4&SCOTLAB=30.7&SCOTLIB=8&SCOTReform=1.4&SCOTGreen=2.7&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=37.8&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase

    Now however the latest Redfield poll gives Labour 469, Tories 105, SNP 33, LD 22. So even on that poll Sunak still doing about 100 MPs better than Truss

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-gb-voting-intention-18-june-2023/

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=26&LAB=46&LIB=12&Reform=7&Green=6&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=17.4&SCOTLAB=30.7&SCOTLIB=8&SCOTReform=1.4&SCOTGreen=2.7&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=37.8&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Sandpit said:

    DougSeal said:

    Sandpit said:

    Woke even reaches 20,000 leagues under the sea.


    Right-wing idiots joining the left-wing idiots from yesterday, in tying to make political capital from a tragedy.

    Can people no longer think before opening their mouths online?

    The guy who built the sub was one of the victims, he wouldn’t have been there if he thought it was unsafe. That said, deep-sea exploration is unfathomably (sic) dangerous, and they all knew there was a chance of catastrophic failure.
    I sympathise with the sentiment that these deaths should not be used to make cheap political points. I feel particularly awful about the University of Strathclyde student who went on the trip with his Dad as a Father's Day present and was apparently terrified.

    Nevertheless, I think I don't think we can shy away from discussing the fact that this tragedy has resulted in eye watering amounts of public money (largely North American public money) being spent on rescue efforts and the diversion of military resources. To get on a ski slope in most places you have to take out insurance to cover the chances of something going wrong. Doing something this inherently dangerous (I read that the disclaimer mentioned 'death' three times on the first page) needs to have some sort of financial scheme to cover these eventualities. Isn't there a £10k fee for climbing Everest now?

    Also, the Titanic is a resting place for about 1500 people. Can we not leave them in peace as we do Military Maritime Graves under the Protection of Military Remains Act 1986 (although perhaps that doesn't stop tourism)?
    Most of that American money was spent anyway. It's not like they hurriedly built some ships and press-ganged some new sailors.
    In general terms, militaries usually love having a civilian emergency to deal with. For the men on the ground, it’s a chance to show off their capability, skills, and training; and for the brass hats, it’s a chance to show their value to the politicians who sign the cheques.

    It’s a different equation when volunteer rescuers are involved though - ask the mountain rescue folks, what they think of the idiots who climb a mountain in shorts and flip-flops, when it’s almost freezing at the top and fog was forecast.
    In USA, in mountain other similar rescue situations, public agencies are (mostly) the core of rescue efforts, aided by (plenty) of volunteers.

    And generally agencies such as local sheriff's departments and the like, have the ability to charge those they rescue for costs incurred. Though reckon that 90% plus of the time, they don't.
    Though you never hear of the volunteer mountain rescue or lifeboat crews, in the U.K., saying “Screw those stupid people.”

    They always go. Though you hear stories of people speaking their minds to the rescued.
    Same in USA.
  • northern_monkeynorthern_monkey Posts: 1,639
    Leon said:

    Would the Remoaners on here finally STFU if we got a reformed Brexit that gave us back Freedom of Movement?

    It seems to be the most emotive and profound loss, from Brexit, for a majority of Remainery people (and I share some of the pain, as I say). Perhaps that is the place where Britain could finally reconcile. Brexit Plus. Brexit Plus Freedom of Movement

    We'll be like the ERG in reverse - you'll never appease us with titbit after titbit, grudging morsel after dry crumb. We'll always want more. Pure, hard, diamond-tipped Rejoin. Whatever acronym is the 180 degree opposite of BRINO. I want my EU citizenship back.

    Blue flagged, rather than brown-watered, beaches, the Euro, Schengen, the banning of offshore tax havens, the whole shebang please. Coming out hasn't worked, let's go back in full-throttle. If you could make that so I'd be very appreciative.

    Incidentally, it was very astute of Question Time to stuff last night's audience full of ill-informed gammon, dribbling out the same tired, discredited Johnsonian garbage. (Didn't watch it, of course, but the QT hashtag throws up a damning verdict from the hive mind.) In a few years when admitting voting Leave in polite company will be akin to squatting down and curling one out on your host's lovely dining table, nice people can shudder and say with a contemptuous titter 'No, of course I didn't vote Leave! It was voted for by those ghastly mouth-breathing idiots who look like they've been sculpted out of pork pie meat. What common accents they have. Like on that Question Time, you remember.'
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,421
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ...

    HYUFD said:

    eristdoof said:

    HYUFD said:

    1/ The fundamentals are bad for the Cons - very bad!

    Satisfaction with govt running the country

    - Satisfied 12% (-3 from May)
    - Dissatisfied 80% (+4)

    Net of -68 essentially the same as Truss govt score of -69 in Oct.

    87% of mortgage holders dissatisfied (!) = pre rates hike


    2/ Public becoming a bit more pessimistic about the economy again after a couple of months of improvement.

    How will the economy do in the next 12 months?

    Improve 21% (-3 from May)
    Get worse 58% (+4)
    No change 18% (-)

    Net = -37 down from -30 last month. But was -56 in Nov.


    3/ Sunak's personal poll ratings have dipped a little this month too.

    Satisfaction with performance as PM

    - Satisfied 28% (-2 from May_
    - Dissatisfied 59% (+4)
    Net = -31


    4/ Satisfaction with Starmer as Labour leader is stable

    Satisfied 31% (-)
    Dissatisfied 49% (-1)
    Net= -18

    So underwater (Blair and Cameron were both net positive when they won from opposition).

    But scores better than Sunak.


    5/ To finish ... worst govt net satisfaction ratings by PM via @IpsosUK

    Thatcher: -63 (Mar 90)
    Major: -78 (Dec 94)
    Blair: -47 (May / Nov 06)
    Brown: -62 (June 09)
    Cameron: -45 (Jul 16)
    May: -77 (Jun 19)
    Johnson: -67 (Sep 19)
    Truss: -69 (Oct 22)
    _______
    Sunak: -68 (Jun 23)

    So Sunak's government now has a net satisfaction rating higher than Major's in 1997 and higher than Truss and May's, even if slightly worse than Boris'
    A result a bit better than than Major in 1997 is still a disaster for the Tories.
    Given the Tories were heading for a 1993 Canadian Tories style wipeout and less than 50 seats under Truss last autumn, many Tory MPs would have bitten your hand off for a slightly better than Major 1997 result back then
    They were not heading for that - polling is a snapshot not a prediction, as you will know.

    Your threadbare Sunak ramping as he marches the Tory Party to crushing defeat is embarrassing.
    They were. Truss resigned on 21 October last year, all polls in the week before her resignation had the Tories under 25%. One People Polling poll had the Tories on just 14%, Redfield had the Tories on just 19%. Results which would have left the Tories nearer 0 than 50 seats under FPTP

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election
    They were not, because a GE was not due to take place in the week before/after her resignation. Had a GE been imminent, then yes, your point would have some validity.

    Under Sunak, the Tories have made a modest recovery which indicates little except some died in the wool Tory supporters reverting to type. There is no indication that had Truss stayed, this wouldn't still have happened.
    The minor recovery has only happened under Sunak, had Truss stayed the polling evidence is the Tories would not only have lost to Labour by a landslide but ceased to be the main Opposition. The LDs or SNP may well have won more MPs than the Truss Tories would have
    I don't see what polling evidence there could be that could prove this hypothetical situation, but by all means present some.

    Truss was prepared to be unpopular (not that unpopular obvs.) in the short term because she believed that there was a pay off in her policies that would manifest itself before the GE - a healthier economy, more affordable childcare, increased energy supply leading to lower bills, increased food supply leading to lower food costs, increased investment from the cancelling of the CT rise etc.

    Had those policies borne fruit, a modest, or even non-modest polling recovery could have taken place. Even if they hadn't, one would still expect a small recovery as the mini-budget fiasco died as a news story.

    I have just given you one.

    Put in the last Redfield poll under Truss' Premiership and you got Labour 571 seats, SNP 33, LDs 19 and Tories just 6.

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/magnified-email/issue-53/

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=19&LAB=55&LIB=12&Reform=4&Green=4&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=17.4&SCOTLAB=30.7&SCOTLIB=8&SCOTReform=1.4&SCOTGreen=2.7&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=37.8&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase

    Now however the latest Redfield poll gives Labour 469, Tories 105, SNP 33, LD 22. So even on that poll Sunak still doing about 100 MPs better than Truss

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-gb-voting-intention-18-june-2023/

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=26&LAB=46&LIB=12&Reform=7&Green=6&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=17.4&SCOTLAB=30.7&SCOTLIB=8&SCOTReform=1.4&SCOTGreen=2.7&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=37.8&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase
    I am not going to lambast you for being stupid, because I know full well that you completely understand the point that I am making; you're just choosing not to acknowledge it.

    I will merely reiterate that mid-term polling, especially in the immediate aftermath of a policy crisis like the mini-budget fiasco, cannot predict the outcome of a General Election due to take place more than two years in the future. You know that, I know that, anyone who reads PB knows that.

    So you don't have any evidence that had Truss survived, the Tories wouldn't have recovered in the polls - I didn't think you would have.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited June 2023
    Nigelb said:
    65% of Republican voters and 53% of US rural voters however approve of Roe being overturned and the decision returned to the States
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,421

    Andy_JS said:

    James Cameron criticises the mission to the Titanic, which is a bit odd since he's done it himself 33 times.

    Using high quality, properly designed, rated and tested equipment.
    What kind of ghoul visits the wreck of the Titanic 33 times?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:
    65% of Republican voters and 53% of US rural voters however approve of Roe being overturned and the decision returned to the States
    But overall it was 61% disapprove.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,055
    edited June 2023
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:
    65% of Republican voters and 53% of US rural voters however approve of Roe being overturned and the decision returned to the States
    Isn't the more significant result that 35% of Republican voters don't approve?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited June 2023

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ...

    HYUFD said:

    eristdoof said:

    HYUFD said:

    1/ The fundamentals are bad for the Cons - very bad!

    Satisfaction with govt running the country

    - Satisfied 12% (-3 from May)
    - Dissatisfied 80% (+4)

    Net of -68 essentially the same as Truss govt score of -69 in Oct.

    87% of mortgage holders dissatisfied (!) = pre rates hike


    2/ Public becoming a bit more pessimistic about the economy again after a couple of months of improvement.

    How will the economy do in the next 12 months?

    Improve 21% (-3 from May)
    Get worse 58% (+4)
    No change 18% (-)

    Net = -37 down from -30 last month. But was -56 in Nov.


    3/ Sunak's personal poll ratings have dipped a little this month too.

    Satisfaction with performance as PM

    - Satisfied 28% (-2 from May_
    - Dissatisfied 59% (+4)
    Net = -31


    4/ Satisfaction with Starmer as Labour leader is stable

    Satisfied 31% (-)
    Dissatisfied 49% (-1)
    Net= -18

    So underwater (Blair and Cameron were both net positive when they won from opposition).

    But scores better than Sunak.


    5/ To finish ... worst govt net satisfaction ratings by PM via @IpsosUK

    Thatcher: -63 (Mar 90)
    Major: -78 (Dec 94)
    Blair: -47 (May / Nov 06)
    Brown: -62 (June 09)
    Cameron: -45 (Jul 16)
    May: -77 (Jun 19)
    Johnson: -67 (Sep 19)
    Truss: -69 (Oct 22)
    _______
    Sunak: -68 (Jun 23)

    So Sunak's government now has a net satisfaction rating higher than Major's in 1997 and higher than Truss and May's, even if slightly worse than Boris'
    A result a bit better than than Major in 1997 is still a disaster for the Tories.
    Given the Tories were heading for a 1993 Canadian Tories style wipeout and less than 50 seats under Truss last autumn, many Tory MPs would have bitten your hand off for a slightly better than Major 1997 result back then
    They were not heading for that - polling is a snapshot not a prediction, as you will know.

    Your threadbare Sunak ramping as he marches the Tory Party to crushing defeat is embarrassing.
    They were. Truss resigned on 21 October last year, all polls in the week before her resignation had the Tories under 25%. One People Polling poll had the Tories on just 14%, Redfield had the Tories on just 19%. Results which would have left the Tories nearer 0 than 50 seats under FPTP

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election
    They were not, because a GE was not due to take place in the week before/after her resignation. Had a GE been imminent, then yes, your point would have some validity.

    Under Sunak, the Tories have made a modest recovery which indicates little except some died in the wool Tory supporters reverting to type. There is no indication that had Truss stayed, this wouldn't still have happened.
    The minor recovery has only happened under Sunak, had Truss stayed the polling evidence is the Tories would not only have lost to Labour by a landslide but ceased to be the main Opposition. The LDs or SNP may well have won more MPs than the Truss Tories would have
    I don't see what polling evidence there could be that could prove this hypothetical situation, but by all means present some.

    Truss was prepared to be unpopular (not that unpopular obvs.) in the short term because she believed that there was a pay off in her policies that would manifest itself before the GE - a healthier economy, more affordable childcare, increased energy supply leading to lower bills, increased food supply leading to lower food costs, increased investment from the cancelling of the CT rise etc.

    Had those policies borne fruit, a modest, or even non-modest polling recovery could have taken place. Even if they hadn't, one would still expect a small recovery as the mini-budget fiasco died as a news story.

    I have just given you one.

    Put in the last Redfield poll under Truss' Premiership and you got Labour 571 seats, SNP 33, LDs 19 and Tories just 6.

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/magnified-email/issue-53/

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=19&LAB=55&LIB=12&Reform=4&Green=4&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=17.4&SCOTLAB=30.7&SCOTLIB=8&SCOTReform=1.4&SCOTGreen=2.7&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=37.8&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase

    Now however the latest Redfield poll gives Labour 469, Tories 105, SNP 33, LD 22. So even on that poll Sunak still doing about 100 MPs better than Truss

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-gb-voting-intention-18-june-2023/

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=26&LAB=46&LIB=12&Reform=7&Green=6&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=17.4&SCOTLAB=30.7&SCOTLIB=8&SCOTReform=1.4&SCOTGreen=2.7&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=37.8&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase
    I am not going to lambast you for being stupid, because I know full well that you completely understand the point that I am making; you're just choosing not to acknowledge it.

    I will merely reiterate that mid-term polling, especially in the immediate aftermath of a policy crisis like the mini-budget fiasco, cannot predict the outcome of a General Election due to take place more than two years in the future. You know that, I know that, anyone who reads PB knows that.

    So you don't have any evidence that had Truss survived, the Tories wouldn't have recovered in the polls - I didn't think you would have.
    Yes I know you think Truss would have recovered but on the polls before she resigned even Epping Forest would have gone Labour. Brentwood and Ongar (where we now live) would have been one of the handful of Tory seats left (and only because of the rural bits around Ongar, Brentwood itself would also have gone Labour)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    edited June 2023

    Andy_JS said:

    James Cameron criticises the mission to the Titanic, which is a bit odd since he's done it himself 33 times.

    Using high quality, properly designed, rated and tested equipment.
    What kind of ghoul visits the wreck of the Titanic 33 times?
    The kind who insists on everything being more expensive and taking longer than it needs to. Why do something once when you can do it 33 times?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:
    65% of Republican voters and 53% of US rural voters however approve of Roe being overturned and the decision returned to the States
    Isn't the more significant result that 35% of Republican voters don't approve?
    No, as the 65% will pick the Republican nominee for President next year
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    Would the Remoaners on here finally STFU if we got a reformed Brexit that gave us back Freedom of Movement?

    It seems to be the most emotive and profound loss, from Brexit, for a majority of Remainery people (and I share some of the pain, as I say). Perhaps that is the place where Britain could finally reconcile. Brexit Plus. Brexit Plus Freedom of Movement

    We'll be like the ERG in reverse - you'll never appease us with titbit after titbit, grudging morsel after dry crumb. We'll always want more. Pure, hard, diamond-tipped Rejoin. Whatever acronym is the 180 degree opposite of BRINO. I want my EU citizenship back.

    Blue flagged, rather than brown-watered, beaches, the Euro, Schengen, the banning of offshore tax havens, the whole shebang please. Coming out hasn't worked, let's go back in full-throttle. If you could make that so I'd be very appreciative.

    Incidentally, it was very astute of Question Time to stuff last night's audience full of ill-informed gammon, dribbling out the same tired, discredited Johnsonian garbage. (Didn't watch it, of course, but the QT hashtag throws up a damning verdict from the hive mind.) In a few years when admitting voting Leave in polite company will be akin to squatting down and curling one out on your host's lovely dining table, nice people can shudder and say with a contemptuous titter 'No, of course I didn't vote Leave! It was voted for by those ghastly mouth-breathing idiots who look like they've been sculpted out of pork pie meat. What common accents they have. Like on that Question Time, you remember.'
    Aaaaand, this sneering drivel is why you will never get to Rejoin. You immediately alienate a Liberal Leaver like me, and make me yearn for even Harder Brexit so you suffer, again and again

    I know you are half joking, but you are only half joking. So I say to the other half: HAHAHAHAHAHA, we're never going back in. Tough shit
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    Andy_JS said:

    James Cameron criticises the mission to the Titanic, which is a bit odd since he's done it himself 33 times.

    Using high quality, properly designed, rated and tested equipment.
    What kind of ghoul visits the wreck of the Titanic 33 times?
    A man making a $200m movie about it?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    Andy_JS said:

    James Cameron criticises the mission to the Titanic, which is a bit odd since he's done it himself 33 times.

    Using high quality, properly designed, rated and tested equipment.
    What kind of ghoul visits the wreck of the Titanic 33 times?
    I just hope Liz Truss hasn't been offered a ticket
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191

    Andy_JS said:

    James Cameron criticises the mission to the Titanic, which is a bit odd since he's done it himself 33 times.

    Using high quality, properly designed, rated and tested equipment.
    What kind of ghoul visits the wreck of the Titanic 33 times?
    One who films it all so you can safely view the wreck from the comfort of your living room.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    edited June 2023
    "Keir Starmer sold ice creams illegally in France as student
    Labour leader’s summer holiday job revealed by university friend"

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/keir-starmer-sold-ice-creams-in-illegally-in-france-as-student-z6j5z9x8r
This discussion has been closed.