@AdamBienkov Rishi Sunak tells an IKEA worker, whose family is struggling to get treatment on the NHS, that he has a "really, really good plan" to solve the problem, which involves "being a bit clever about how we do things."
I'm sitting at the umpteenth bar in the sunshine by a lock gate with only a few km to go and it will all be over. Bizarrely in addition to the two of us the only other thing sitting on a bar chair is a goat.
So 3 firsts for me this trip. My first earthquake, a crayfish nowhere near water and a goat sitting on a bar chair. He didn't even buy his round.
The man could not look more out of touch if he tried. Jesus Christ.
Rishi: "It's ok, we're going to get through this" Worker: "That's good to hear, prime minister. What is being done to ensure that we do get through this, because I'm still a bit worried about—" Rishi: "No, sorry, you misunderstood. We're" [gestures towards Akshata Murthy] "going to get through this. You? You're fucked."
I said we should have let elderly people be protected during COVID and let us all go on about our lives. I received a strong and vocal response that I said I was being ageist and nasty.
Yet anyone can call young people feckless, lazy, stupid, woke and nobody bats an eyelid. No such such as being youngist!
The truth is, you oldies have fucked it for the young of this country. We are fed up and angry with you (not all of you but a lot of you).
I think this idea is nonsense. Many many younger people died of covid in the first year. It was not just a threat to the over 70's. And if we had done as you now suggest (after your Damascene conversion on lockdowns) the hospitals would have been overwhelmed with covid patients when you presented with something else and didn't get treated.
Success of lockdowns has led, as predicted, to people saying they weren't needed.
Lockdown was successful at saving lives, I never disagreed with that. I cheerlead for them after all.
They were pointless because the impact on the country has been worse than if we'd not bothered. If you are under 45 honestly what has been the upside?
How sure are you that this is true though? The first lockdown was essential to prevent hospitals stopping working (as pretty much happened in Italy). If that happens a lot more people die that could have lived.
The later lockdowns came about for various reasons, but at heart, without the vaccines, the death toll was too high for society to stand (see the vast support for lockdowns and restrictions in society). We made a lot of mistakes. Probably could have had a lot more outdoor mixing all through. Eat out to help out, but only outside. Better support for those isolating, so that they could afford to. But its not that obvious that the economy would have been better off.
I am ready for a fight. I genuinely hate the people who have been so protected whilst we get fucked.
Put our lives on hold. Fucked.
We should have all refused to lock down, it was a complete waste of time for us. The people protected will be dead soon, we've got years of this shit to come.
I am so, so angry. I have no confidence Labour will sort it out - but the priority is getting Little Rishi and his bunch of fucktards out.
Labour rarely sorts anything out.
But joking aside, the younger generation do have legitimate complaint, though in my experience it is a little simplistic to make demographic divisions. There are plenty of entitled oldies and entitled youngers. There are plenty of whinging oldies and whinging youngsters. There are also those that work bloody hard, don't blame others and become a success in life however that looks, because they seize the day and look for the bright spots rather than the dark.
There are plenty of reasons why we (particularly those in UK) should all be very grateful for the times we live in, despite Brexit, incoming Labour governments, Putin etc. Let us be grateful we were not born in Mariupol.
You make a good point but I was addressing the overwhelming feeling we get from the media and so on who amplify it. I recall the week we spent discussing avocado on toast.
I am not saying all elderly people are bad - but a large minority give the rest a bad name. And for them I am afraid I regret putting my life on hold.
It wasn't just older people that were killed by Covid. Yes they were disproportionately effected. The lockdowns were not designed to save the elderly, they were designed to save our healthcare system. Funnily enough, the one system in Europe that is closest to our mad NHS system had no lockdown at all (Sweden). It will be interesting to reflect on which government got it right.
Lockdown was pretty shit. But if you want to focus on the bright side by contrasting with the darkest, imagine what it must be like for those people in Ukraine at the moment, or even the parents of Russian soldiers. They really have had a lot to complain about.
It's not just lockdown, it is the aftermath. Young people had their lives put on hold because it was the right thing to do yet we are basically now fending for ourselves.
Rishi says he wants to help, has literally anything he's done been aimed at anyone under the age of 90?
Yes, he put up National Insurance. Only those of us who work for a living pay that, not those living on triple-locked welfare.
OK being serious, yes, furlough was aimed under 90. Though I have my suspicions that Sunak was less keen on furlough than he made out, indeed I've heard a rumour (completely unsubstantiated so dismiss if you want) that the reason Sunak was utterly opposed to Boris's Whatsapp messages being released is that one of them would say on it basically that Sunak didn't want to do furlough as it was too expensive and Boris basically saying "just do it" or something like that.
This is karma. We used to poke fun at the US for choosing an Apprentice boss as President and now we've ended up with an first-week-elimination Apprentice contestant as PM. ~AA
I said we should have let elderly people be protected during COVID and let us all go on about our lives. I received a strong and vocal response that I said I was being ageist and nasty.
Yet anyone can call young people feckless, lazy, stupid, woke and nobody bats an eyelid. No such such as being youngist!
The truth is, you oldies have fucked it for the young of this country. We are fed up and angry with you (not all of you but a lot of you).
I think this idea is nonsense. Many many younger people died of covid in the first year. It was not just a threat to the over 70's. And if we had done as you now suggest (after your Damascene conversion on lockdowns) the hospitals would have been overwhelmed with covid patients when you presented with something else and didn't get treated.
Success of lockdowns has led, as predicted, to people saying they weren't needed.
That's a bit head I win, tails you lose, logic by you there though.
You can claim they were needed because they worked, but where's the evidence for that?
Sweden did better than us in preserving liberty and they didn't exactly all die in Sweden as a result now, did they?
Sweden is not the UK. Compared to Norway etc Sweden did considerably worse.
I hope that the inquiry will lead to a better strategy, should such a situation ever arise again.
I said we should have let elderly people be protected during COVID and let us all go on about our lives. I received a strong and vocal response that I said I was being ageist and nasty.
Yet anyone can call young people feckless, lazy, stupid, woke and nobody bats an eyelid. No such such as being youngist!
The truth is, you oldies have fucked it for the young of this country. We are fed up and angry with you (not all of you but a lot of you).
I think this idea is nonsense. Many many younger people died of covid in the first year. It was not just a threat to the over 70's. And if we had done as you now suggest (after your Damascene conversion on lockdowns) the hospitals would have been overwhelmed with covid patients when you presented with something else and didn't get treated.
Success of lockdowns has led, as predicted, to people saying they weren't needed.
Lockdown was successful at saving lives, I never disagreed with that. I cheerlead for them after all.
They were pointless because the impact on the country has been worse than if we'd not bothered. If you are under 45 honestly what has been the upside?
Another few years with most of my grandparents, great aunts and great uncles.
My grandad is now 92 and still healthy, but has a bit of smokers lung from smoking from 14 - 50. If he got covid he would not have made it, and my nan who is in her mid 80s would not have lasted long after him, or if she got covid. I know not everyone can point to their nan, or grandad, and say they made it through - but we did what we did in the hope that most of our loved ones would. I lost one grandparent to complications associated with covid (she was slowly on her way out and that kicked her through the door, so not the real cause of death), but it could have been so much worse, and so much worse for so many more people.
I can't say I did it for the economy, because I didn't. I can't say I did it out of stiff upper lipness, because I didn't. I did it because I didn't want to take action that would result in the deaths of the vulnerable and old, like my grandparents, and I hoped other people would do the same.
I said we should have let elderly people be protected during COVID and let us all go on about our lives. I received a strong and vocal response that I said I was being ageist and nasty.
Yet anyone can call young people feckless, lazy, stupid, woke and nobody bats an eyelid. No such such as being youngist!
The truth is, you oldies have fucked it for the young of this country. We are fed up and angry with you (not all of you but a lot of you).
I think this idea is nonsense. Many many younger people died of covid in the first year. It was not just a threat to the over 70's. And if we had done as you now suggest (after your Damascene conversion on lockdowns) the hospitals would have been overwhelmed with covid patients when you presented with something else and didn't get treated.
Success of lockdowns has led, as predicted, to people saying they weren't needed.
That's a bit head I win, tails you lose, logic by you there though.
You can claim they were needed because they worked, but where's the evidence for that?
Sweden did better than us in preserving liberty and they didn't exactly all die in Sweden as a result now, did they?
Sweden is not the UK. Compared to Norway etc Sweden did considerably worse.
I hope that the inquiry will lead to a better strategy, should such a situation ever arise again.
On what metric did Sweden do considerably worse than Norway?
On the metric of preserving liberty Sweden did far, far, far better than Norway.
According to the less-important metric of deaths that was presented in the media yesterday, Sweden did better than Norway too.
@RobDotHutton In about five days, Sunak will finally crack and concede that Boris Johnson lied to Parliament, and that it would have been better if he hadn't, and by that stage, he'll just look fantastically weak.
I said we should have let elderly people be protected during COVID and let us all go on about our lives. I received a strong and vocal response that I said I was being ageist and nasty.
Yet anyone can call young people feckless, lazy, stupid, woke and nobody bats an eyelid. No such such as being youngist!
The truth is, you oldies have fucked it for the young of this country. We are fed up and angry with you (not all of you but a lot of you).
I think this idea is nonsense. Many many younger people died of covid in the first year. It was not just a threat to the over 70's. And if we had done as you now suggest (after your Damascene conversion on lockdowns) the hospitals would have been overwhelmed with covid patients when you presented with something else and didn't get treated.
Success of lockdowns has led, as predicted, to people saying they weren't needed.
That's a bit head I win, tails you lose, logic by you there though.
You can claim they were needed because they worked, but where's the evidence for that?
Sweden did better than us in preserving liberty and they didn't exactly all die in Sweden as a result now, did they?
Sweden is not the UK. Compared to Norway etc Sweden did considerably worse.
I hope that the inquiry will lead to a better strategy, should such a situation ever arise again.
On what metric did Sweden do considerably worse than Norway?
On the metric of preserving liberty Sweden did far, far, far better than Norway.
According to the less-important metric of deaths that was presented in the media yesterday, Sweden did better than Norway too.
Sweden had 12 times the number of covid deaths per capita compared to Noway. And that metric you presented for deaths has alredy been completely debunked and heavily criticised by - the Swedes.
I am ready for a fight. I genuinely hate the people who have been so protected whilst we get fucked.
Put our lives on hold. Fucked.
We should have all refused to lock down, it was a complete waste of time for us. The people protected will be dead soon, we've got years of this shit to come.
I am so, so angry. I have no confidence Labour will sort it out - but the priority is getting Little Rishi and his bunch of fucktards out.
Labour rarely sorts anything out.
But joking aside, the younger generation do have legitimate complaint, though in my experience it is a little simplistic to make demographic divisions. There are plenty of entitled oldies and entitled youngers. There are plenty of whinging oldies and whinging youngsters. There are also those that work bloody hard, don't blame others and become a success in life however that looks, because they seize the day and look for the bright spots rather than the dark.
There are plenty of reasons why we (particularly those in UK) should all be very grateful for the times we live in, despite Brexit, incoming Labour governments, Putin etc. Let us be grateful we were not born in Mariupol.
You make a good point but I was addressing the overwhelming feeling we get from the media and so on who amplify it. I recall the week we spent discussing avocado on toast.
I am not saying all elderly people are bad - but a large minority give the rest a bad name. And for them I am afraid I regret putting my life on hold.
It wasn't just older people that were killed by Covid. Yes they were disproportionately effected. The lockdowns were not designed to save the elderly, they were designed to save our healthcare system. Funnily enough, the one system in Europe that is closest to our mad NHS system had no lockdown at all (Sweden). It will be interesting to reflect on which government got it right.
Lockdown was pretty shit. But if you want to focus on the bright side by contrasting with the darkest, imagine what it must be like for those people in Ukraine at the moment, or even the parents of Russian soldiers. They really have had a lot to complain about.
It's not just lockdown, it is the aftermath. Young people had their lives put on hold because it was the right thing to do yet we are basically now fending for ourselves.
Rishi says he wants to help, has literally anything he's done been aimed at anyone under the age of 90?
I would say that the negatives for young people would have happened covid or not - capitalism wants to extract more value from it's workers to create growth, the easiest way to do that is to pay workers less relative to the value they create, or lay them off completely. Covid exacerbated and highlighted some of these worst things, but if it wasn't covid it would be climate change, or inflation, or whatever other shock to the system would come about and mean government would shit on the young and workers.
For the last few minutes, I've been serenaded by what (*) is the sound of Merlin engines, as two Spitfires (*) play overhead.
Magnificent.
(*) I think.
You are in the right part of the World for Duxford. Air show this weekend!
Yeah, we often get one overhead - in fact, the children of one of the pilots goes to my son's school, so sports days often have a Spitfire overhead. Getting two in formation is a little more unusual. I've never seen any of the heavies though - the B17 or any transport aircraft.
Unconnected to Duxford, we often get a pair of Apache helicopters travelling east-west or west-east - rumour has it that they're transiting to the Norfolk ranges?
@AdamBienkov Rishi Sunak tells an IKEA worker, whose family is struggling to get treatment on the NHS, that he has a "really, really good plan" to solve the problem, which involves "being a bit clever about how we do things."
This reminds me about Josh Lyman's secret plan to fight inflation.
Isn’t part of Sunak’s problem with this that he also lied to parliament if Boris did? He said there was no lawbreaking before he got fined for lawbreaking
Even if inflation falls Sunak can hardly bring out the bunting given to get there it would have driven many people to lose their homes .
On another note am I the only one fed up of the moralizing crap from people who seek to judge those who just wanted to own their own home . The situation was vastly different 20 years ago .
People took out mortgages and could never have envisaged the rapid change in interest rates over the space of just over a year.
There seems to be a lot of mean spiritedness about which I find appalling when some people are going to be sick with worry over what will happen to their mortgages .
Indeed. PB at its curtain-twitching worst.
Yuk.
It boils my piss.
If you are under the age of 45 the economy has handed you a shit sandwich and getting onto the housing ladder has been the only, narrow window for material advancement.
As usual, the boomers have no idea and merely pour scorn on those that follow. This, even as their last great idea, Brexit, is widely understood as an absolute disaster.
As someone in my early 30s I also find it increasingly annoying that we have not only been handed a shitty economy but that if any of us argue for a better one, or a better future in general, we often get called entitled or (as we have been discussing today) "elites".
It's weird that the sub 30s make up a small part of the population, and have only Bern economically active a short time, yet its their profligacy and entitlement which must be addressed to fix things.
Lord knows post Millennials have their annoyances but I think detective poirot can search for other suspects.
I am also similar age to the poster above, the Tories and their friends call me entitled and lazy despite the fact I have worked every day since I was 18 years old. Fuck off.
Different lives. My parents (now in their late 70's and early 80's) grew up in an era before easy credit, but at a time when buying a house was possible, and only one parent needed to work, so mum stayed at home until us kids were at school. We only holidayed in England, but we did get away. Life was generally simpler. If you wanted stuff you had to save up, but generally there was a lot less stuff to buy.
Nowadays its really hard to get on the housing ladder (we were lucky and were gifted a deposit and both have good salaries, and don't want to live in London or indeed Bath), uni, where 50 % of kids are strongly pushed to, costs lots of money that is borrowed, and credit is easy to obtain. The culture of buy now, pay later is embedded and so people are not used to delayed gratification. The mountain of saving required to get that deposit is not easy,
I said we should have let elderly people be protected during COVID and let us all go on about our lives. I received a strong and vocal response that I said I was being ageist and nasty.
Yet anyone can call young people feckless, lazy, stupid, woke and nobody bats an eyelid. No such such as being youngist!
The truth is, you oldies have fucked it for the young of this country. We are fed up and angry with you (not all of you but a lot of you).
I think this idea is nonsense. Many many younger people died of covid in the first year. It was not just a threat to the over 70's. And if we had done as you now suggest (after your Damascene conversion on lockdowns) the hospitals would have been overwhelmed with covid patients when you presented with something else and didn't get treated.
Success of lockdowns has led, as predicted, to people saying they weren't needed.
That's a bit head I win, tails you lose, logic by you there though.
You can claim they were needed because they worked, but where's the evidence for that?
Sweden did better than us in preserving liberty and they didn't exactly all die in Sweden as a result now, did they?
Sweden is not the UK. Compared to Norway etc Sweden did considerably worse.
I hope that the inquiry will lead to a better strategy, should such a situation ever arise again.
On what metric did Sweden do considerably worse than Norway?
On the metric of preserving liberty Sweden did far, far, far better than Norway.
According to the less-important metric of deaths that was presented in the media yesterday, Sweden did better than Norway too.
I was under the impression that the Swedish version of Chris Witty believed they got it wrong.
All of this is complex. We are having a 3 (maybe longer) year inquiry into it. We won't ever truly know what would have happened on the road not travelled. Its too tempting now to look back and say we shouldn't have done this, we shouldn't have done that.
At the time I believed we opened up too slowly and had some ludicrous rules (masks in pubs when upright but now when sitting and one way systems in the shops). We undoubted made a lot of mistakes. Arguably everywhere did, and usually different mistakes. If you recall the times most of the media, most of the time wanted more lockdown. As did almost all politicians (Starmer, Drakeford, Sturgeon).
Yeah, we often get one overhead - in fact, the children of one of the pilots goes to my son's school, so sports days often have a Spitfire overhead. Getting two in formation is a little more unusual. I've never seen any of the heavies though - the B17 or any transport aircraft.
I went to the Battle of Britain show a few years ago. There were IIRC a dozen Merlin engines in the air at one point.
Isn’t part of Sunak’s problem with this that he also lied to parliament if Boris did? He said there was no lawbreaking before he got fined for lawbreaking
I don't think so. He genuinely believed he had done no wrong and I don't believe he has been asked to clarify.
I am ready for a fight. I genuinely hate the people who have been so protected whilst we get fucked.
Put our lives on hold. Fucked.
We should have all refused to lock down, it was a complete waste of time for us. The people protected will be dead soon, we've got years of this shit to come.
I am so, so angry. I have no confidence Labour will sort it out - but the priority is getting Little Rishi and his bunch of fucktards out.
Labour rarely sorts anything out.
But joking aside, the younger generation do have legitimate complaint, though in my experience it is a little simplistic to make demographic divisions. There are plenty of entitled oldies and entitled youngers. There are plenty of whinging oldies and whinging youngsters. There are also those that work bloody hard, don't blame others and become a success in life however that looks, because they seize the day and look for the bright spots rather than the dark.
There are plenty of reasons why we (particularly those in UK) should all be very grateful for the times we live in, despite Brexit, incoming Labour governments, Putin etc. Let us be grateful we were not born in Mariupol.
You make a good point but I was addressing the overwhelming feeling we get from the media and so on who amplify it. I recall the week we spent discussing avocado on toast.
I am not saying all elderly people are bad - but a large minority give the rest a bad name. And for them I am afraid I regret putting my life on hold.
It wasn't just older people that were killed by Covid. Yes they were disproportionately effected. The lockdowns were not designed to save the elderly, they were designed to save our healthcare system. Funnily enough, the one system in Europe that is closest to our mad NHS system had no lockdown at all (Sweden). It will be interesting to reflect on which government got it right.
Lockdown was pretty shit. But if you want to focus on the bright side by contrasting with the darkest, imagine what it must be like for those people in Ukraine at the moment, or even the parents of Russian soldiers. They really have had a lot to complain about.
It's not just lockdown, it is the aftermath. Young people had their lives put on hold because it was the right thing to do yet we are basically now fending for ourselves.
Rishi says he wants to help, has literally anything he's done been aimed at anyone under the age of 90?
I would say that the negatives for young people would have happened covid or not - capitalism wants to extract more value from it's workers to create growth, the easiest way to do that is to pay workers less relative to the value they create, or lay them off completely. Covid exacerbated and highlighted some of these worst things, but if it wasn't covid it would be climate change, or inflation, or whatever other shock to the system would come about and mean government would shit on the young and workers.
Boris wanted higher wages. He’s got higher wages. He let the inflation genie out of the bottle to generate short term headlines. Who was chancellor? It happened on their watch.
I am ready for a fight. I genuinely hate the people who have been so protected whilst we get fucked.
Put our lives on hold. Fucked.
We should have all refused to lock down, it was a complete waste of time for us. The people protected will be dead soon, we've got years of this shit to come.
I am so, so angry. I have no confidence Labour will sort it out - but the priority is getting Little Rishi and his bunch of fucktards out.
Labour rarely sorts anything out.
But joking aside, the younger generation do have legitimate complaint, though in my experience it is a little simplistic to make demographic divisions. There are plenty of entitled oldies and entitled youngers. There are plenty of whinging oldies and whinging youngsters. There are also those that work bloody hard, don't blame others and become a success in life however that looks, because they seize the day and look for the bright spots rather than the dark.
There are plenty of reasons why we (particularly those in UK) should all be very grateful for the times we live in, despite Brexit, incoming Labour governments, Putin etc. Let us be grateful we were not born in Mariupol.
You make a good point but I was addressing the overwhelming feeling we get from the media and so on who amplify it. I recall the week we spent discussing avocado on toast.
I am not saying all elderly people are bad - but a large minority give the rest a bad name. And for them I am afraid I regret putting my life on hold.
It wasn't just older people that were killed by Covid. Yes they were disproportionately effected. The lockdowns were not designed to save the elderly, they were designed to save our healthcare system. Funnily enough, the one system in Europe that is closest to our mad NHS system had no lockdown at all (Sweden). It will be interesting to reflect on which government got it right.
Lockdown was pretty shit. But if you want to focus on the bright side by contrasting with the darkest, imagine what it must be like for those people in Ukraine at the moment, or even the parents of Russian soldiers. They really have had a lot to complain about.
It's not just lockdown, it is the aftermath. Young people had their lives put on hold because it was the right thing to do yet we are basically now fending for ourselves.
Rishi says he wants to help, has literally anything he's done been aimed at anyone under the age of 90?
I am ready for a fight. I genuinely hate the people who have been so protected whilst we get fucked.
Put our lives on hold. Fucked.
We should have all refused to lock down, it was a complete waste of time for us. The people protected will be dead soon, we've got years of this shit to come.
I am so, so angry. I have no confidence Labour will sort it out - but the priority is getting Little Rishi and his bunch of fucktards out.
Labour rarely sorts anything out.
But joking aside, the younger generation do have legitimate complaint, though in my experience it is a little simplistic to make demographic divisions. There are plenty of entitled oldies and entitled youngers. There are plenty of whinging oldies and whinging youngsters. There are also those that work bloody hard, don't blame others and become a success in life however that looks, because they seize the day and look for the bright spots rather than the dark.
There are plenty of reasons why we (particularly those in UK) should all be very grateful for the times we live in, despite Brexit, incoming Labour governments, Putin etc. Let us be grateful we were not born in Mariupol.
You make a good point but I was addressing the overwhelming feeling we get from the media and so on who amplify it. I recall the week we spent discussing avocado on toast.
I am not saying all elderly people are bad - but a large minority give the rest a bad name. And for them I am afraid I regret putting my life on hold.
It wasn't just older people that were killed by Covid. Yes they were disproportionately effected. The lockdowns were not designed to save the elderly, they were designed to save our healthcare system. Funnily enough, the one system in Europe that is closest to our mad NHS system had no lockdown at all (Sweden). It will be interesting to reflect on which government got it right.
Lockdown was pretty shit. But if you want to focus on the bright side by contrasting with the darkest, imagine what it must be like for those people in Ukraine at the moment, or even the parents of Russian soldiers. They really have had a lot to complain about.
It's not just lockdown, it is the aftermath. Young people had their lives put on hold because it was the right thing to do yet we are basically now fending for ourselves.
Rishi says he wants to help, has literally anything he's done been aimed at anyone under the age of 90?
We need a PM willing to make some really difficult decisions - end the triple lock and charge NI on all income not just earned. Include pension income as well. Keep or increase the minimum earnings so those only getting a basic state pension don't pay it but all income shoud be charged in the same way as paid work irrespective of how it is acquired.
Sunak won't touch this and sadly I don't think Starmer will either.
Boris wanted higher wages. He’s got higher wages. He let the inflation genie out of the bottle to generate short term headlines. Who was chancellor? It happened on their watch.
What higher wages? Where are the inflation beating pay rises?
I am ready for a fight. I genuinely hate the people who have been so protected whilst we get fucked.
Put our lives on hold. Fucked.
We should have all refused to lock down, it was a complete waste of time for us. The people protected will be dead soon, we've got years of this shit to come.
I am so, so angry. I have no confidence Labour will sort it out - but the priority is getting Little Rishi and his bunch of fucktards out.
Labour rarely sorts anything out.
But joking aside, the younger generation do have legitimate complaint, though in my experience it is a little simplistic to make demographic divisions. There are plenty of entitled oldies and entitled youngers. There are plenty of whinging oldies and whinging youngsters. There are also those that work bloody hard, don't blame others and become a success in life however that looks, because they seize the day and look for the bright spots rather than the dark.
There are plenty of reasons why we (particularly those in UK) should all be very grateful for the times we live in, despite Brexit, incoming Labour governments, Putin etc. Let us be grateful we were not born in Mariupol.
You make a good point but I was addressing the overwhelming feeling we get from the media and so on who amplify it. I recall the week we spent discussing avocado on toast.
I am not saying all elderly people are bad - but a large minority give the rest a bad name. And for them I am afraid I regret putting my life on hold.
It wasn't just older people that were killed by Covid. Yes they were disproportionately effected. The lockdowns were not designed to save the elderly, they were designed to save our healthcare system. Funnily enough, the one system in Europe that is closest to our mad NHS system had no lockdown at all (Sweden). It will be interesting to reflect on which government got it right.
Lockdown was pretty shit. But if you want to focus on the bright side by contrasting with the darkest, imagine what it must be like for those people in Ukraine at the moment, or even the parents of Russian soldiers. They really have had a lot to complain about.
The lockdown was to prevent rNHS from being overwhelmed, as was the case with the Iranian Health Service in March 2020. The videos of which on Social media were harrowing. This has seemingly become yet another inter generational football where younger people simply seem to think they did it to protect selfish old people and they forget it was all about the NHS which they claim, in general, to revere.
Isn’t part of Sunak’s problem with this that he also lied to parliament if Boris did? He said there was no lawbreaking before he got fined for lawbreaking
I don't think so. He genuinely believed he had done no wrong and I don't believe he has been asked to clarify.
Boris always tries to straddle things with his positions - so he claims he did nothing wrong, and doesn't understand why he got fined, yet did not challenge the fine. Don't tell me politically he could not have, if he was that politically adroit he'd not have ended up where he did.
Although the "cyclists need insurance" brigade do have a point. Liability insurance for cyclists is quite sensible.
It's a ludicrous idea.
We all do things that could in theory expose us to liability to a third party. Your dog might bite someone. Your lawnmower might damage a neighbour's gnome. You might knock over a shelf of pottery in a shop. You might injure someone with an ill-timed challenge in an informal game of park football.
We don't insist on people getting liability insurance for these activities because the risk of a claim arising is low, and the likelihood of it being a high value claim even if it does is low (i.e. if there is a legal claim against you, there's a good chance you'd be able to pay without claiming on insurance). We make an exception for motor insurance as the inherent risk from driving around several tonnes of metal at potentially some speed is pretty high - we don't have a high accident rate in the UK, but where they do happen the damage to property and people can be pretty catastrophic and beyond the means of the person claimed against.
That is not to diminish the fact that on very rare occasions, an irresponsible person on a bike can cause significant damage. But compared with motor vehicles it is simply incredibly unusual to have situations where lack of third party insurance is an issue for the injured party.
It’s far from ludicrous. I have liability insurance through my membership of cyclingUK. I am happy with that.
s for the rest of your rant, yeah, I know why insurance for us cyclists is optional and motorists isn’t.
As I understand the "insurance for cyclists" gang, their point is not "cyclists would be wise to obtain third party insurance" but "cyclists should be legally required to get insurance, as drivers are". Those are very different things.
I agree with you that there are merits in cyclists being insured and, as many have pointed out, they often are.
I was wondering which lefty rent-a-gob would win the submarine award today.
Step forward Ash Sarkar.
'If the super-rich can spend £250,000 on vanity jaunts 2.4 miles beneath the ocean then they're not being taxed enough.'
I'm sorry, but when hubris meets nemesis then catharsis happens.
A load of rich people ignored a load of safety standards to go oggle a well known monument to hubris and catastrophe, and then disappear? If that were in a modern retelling of An Inspector Calls, that would be considered too on the nose, not subtle enough, a bit heavy handed.
The people involved are still human beings, with families and friends.
It’s not surprising that some idiots don’t have an ounce of compassion in their bodies though, and instead decide to embody David Cameron’s famous remark about Twitter.
There are plenty of off-colour jokes that could be made about a tragedy. This isn’t one of them.
I am ready for a fight. I genuinely hate the people who have been so protected whilst we get fucked.
Put our lives on hold. Fucked.
We should have all refused to lock down, it was a complete waste of time for us. The people protected will be dead soon, we've got years of this shit to come.
I am so, so angry. I have no confidence Labour will sort it out - but the priority is getting Little Rishi and his bunch of fucktards out.
Labour rarely sorts anything out.
But joking aside, the younger generation do have legitimate complaint, though in my experience it is a little simplistic to make demographic divisions. There are plenty of entitled oldies and entitled youngers. There are plenty of whinging oldies and whinging youngsters. There are also those that work bloody hard, don't blame others and become a success in life however that looks, because they seize the day and look for the bright spots rather than the dark.
There are plenty of reasons why we (particularly those in UK) should all be very grateful for the times we live in, despite Brexit, incoming Labour governments, Putin etc. Let us be grateful we were not born in Mariupol.
You make a good point but I was addressing the overwhelming feeling we get from the media and so on who amplify it. I recall the week we spent discussing avocado on toast.
I am not saying all elderly people are bad - but a large minority give the rest a bad name. And for them I am afraid I regret putting my life on hold.
It wasn't just older people that were killed by Covid. Yes they were disproportionately effected. The lockdowns were not designed to save the elderly, they were designed to save our healthcare system. Funnily enough, the one system in Europe that is closest to our mad NHS system had no lockdown at all (Sweden). It will be interesting to reflect on which government got it right.
Lockdown was pretty shit. But if you want to focus on the bright side by contrasting with the darkest, imagine what it must be like for those people in Ukraine at the moment, or even the parents of Russian soldiers. They really have had a lot to complain about.
The lockdown was to prevent rNHS from being overwhelmed, as was the case with the Iranian Health Service in March 2020. The videos of which on Social media were harrowing. This has seemingly become yet another inter generational football where younger people simply seem to think they did it to protect selfish old people and they forget it was all about the NHS which they claim, in general, to revere.
Boris wanted higher wages. He’s got higher wages. He let the inflation genie out of the bottle to generate short term headlines. Who was chancellor? It happened on their watch.
What higher wages? Where are the inflation beating pay rises?
Well quite, nevertheless they encouraged people to ask for more.
I am ready for a fight. I genuinely hate the people who have been so protected whilst we get fucked.
Put our lives on hold. Fucked.
We should have all refused to lock down, it was a complete waste of time for us. The people protected will be dead soon, we've got years of this shit to come.
I am so, so angry. I have no confidence Labour will sort it out - but the priority is getting Little Rishi and his bunch of fucktards out.
Labour rarely sorts anything out.
But joking aside, the younger generation do have legitimate complaint, though in my experience it is a little simplistic to make demographic divisions. There are plenty of entitled oldies and entitled youngers. There are plenty of whinging oldies and whinging youngsters. There are also those that work bloody hard, don't blame others and become a success in life however that looks, because they seize the day and look for the bright spots rather than the dark.
There are plenty of reasons why we (particularly those in UK) should all be very grateful for the times we live in, despite Brexit, incoming Labour governments, Putin etc. Let us be grateful we were not born in Mariupol.
You make a good point but I was addressing the overwhelming feeling we get from the media and so on who amplify it. I recall the week we spent discussing avocado on toast.
I am not saying all elderly people are bad - but a large minority give the rest a bad name. And for them I am afraid I regret putting my life on hold.
It wasn't just older people that were killed by Covid. Yes they were disproportionately effected. The lockdowns were not designed to save the elderly, they were designed to save our healthcare system. Funnily enough, the one system in Europe that is closest to our mad NHS system had no lockdown at all (Sweden). It will be interesting to reflect on which government got it right.
Lockdown was pretty shit. But if you want to focus on the bright side by contrasting with the darkest, imagine what it must be like for those people in Ukraine at the moment, or even the parents of Russian soldiers. They really have had a lot to complain about.
It's not just lockdown, it is the aftermath. Young people had their lives put on hold because it was the right thing to do yet we are basically now fending for ourselves.
Rishi says he wants to help, has literally anything he's done been aimed at anyone under the age of 90?
We need a PM willing to make some really difficult decisions - end the triple lock and charge NI on all income not just earned. Include pension income as well. Keep or increase the minimum earnings so those only getting a basic state pension don't pay it but all income shoud be charged in the same way as paid work irrespective of how it is acquired.
Sunak won't touch this and sadly I don't think Starmer will either.
I am ready for a fight. I genuinely hate the people who have been so protected whilst we get fucked.
Put our lives on hold. Fucked.
We should have all refused to lock down, it was a complete waste of time for us. The people protected will be dead soon, we've got years of this shit to come.
I am so, so angry. I have no confidence Labour will sort it out - but the priority is getting Little Rishi and his bunch of fucktards out.
Labour rarely sorts anything out.
But joking aside, the younger generation do have legitimate complaint, though in my experience it is a little simplistic to make demographic divisions. There are plenty of entitled oldies and entitled youngers. There are plenty of whinging oldies and whinging youngsters. There are also those that work bloody hard, don't blame others and become a success in life however that looks, because they seize the day and look for the bright spots rather than the dark.
There are plenty of reasons why we (particularly those in UK) should all be very grateful for the times we live in, despite Brexit, incoming Labour governments, Putin etc. Let us be grateful we were not born in Mariupol.
You make a good point but I was addressing the overwhelming feeling we get from the media and so on who amplify it. I recall the week we spent discussing avocado on toast.
I am not saying all elderly people are bad - but a large minority give the rest a bad name. And for them I am afraid I regret putting my life on hold.
It wasn't just older people that were killed by Covid. Yes they were disproportionately effected. The lockdowns were not designed to save the elderly, they were designed to save our healthcare system. Funnily enough, the one system in Europe that is closest to our mad NHS system had no lockdown at all (Sweden). It will be interesting to reflect on which government got it right.
Lockdown was pretty shit. But if you want to focus on the bright side by contrasting with the darkest, imagine what it must be like for those people in Ukraine at the moment, or even the parents of Russian soldiers. They really have had a lot to complain about.
It's not just lockdown, it is the aftermath. Young people had their lives put on hold because it was the right thing to do yet we are basically now fending for ourselves.
Rishi says he wants to help, has literally anything he's done been aimed at anyone under the age of 90?
We need a PM willing to make some really difficult decisions - end the triple lock and charge NI on all income not just earned. Include pension income as well. Keep or increase the minimum earnings so those only getting a basic state pension don't pay it but all income shoud be charged in the same way as paid work irrespective of how it is acquired.
Sunak won't touch this and sadly I don't think Starmer will either.
There's only a few things governments choose to do rather than have little option but to do (at least within a range of options), and they will naturally go for the quick, popular, and cheap seeming things most of the time, avoid the difficult, expensive etc.
Of the few tough decisions they will be willing to take on it almost certainly will be something particularly trendy at that time - possibly good, possibly not. So you get Brexit, Climate policy, things which in the specifics might be good or bad, and unsexy stuff like telling people the triple lock must go? Falls by the wayside.
I am ready for a fight. I genuinely hate the people who have been so protected whilst we get fucked.
Put our lives on hold. Fucked.
We should have all refused to lock down, it was a complete waste of time for us. The people protected will be dead soon, we've got years of this shit to come.
I am so, so angry. I have no confidence Labour will sort it out - but the priority is getting Little Rishi and his bunch of fucktards out.
Labour rarely sorts anything out.
But joking aside, the younger generation do have legitimate complaint, though in my experience it is a little simplistic to make demographic divisions. There are plenty of entitled oldies and entitled youngers. There are plenty of whinging oldies and whinging youngsters. There are also those that work bloody hard, don't blame others and become a success in life however that looks, because they seize the day and look for the bright spots rather than the dark.
There are plenty of reasons why we (particularly those in UK) should all be very grateful for the times we live in, despite Brexit, incoming Labour governments, Putin etc. Let us be grateful we were not born in Mariupol.
You make a good point but I was addressing the overwhelming feeling we get from the media and so on who amplify it. I recall the week we spent discussing avocado on toast.
I am not saying all elderly people are bad - but a large minority give the rest a bad name. And for them I am afraid I regret putting my life on hold.
It wasn't just older people that were killed by Covid. Yes they were disproportionately effected. The lockdowns were not designed to save the elderly, they were designed to save our healthcare system. Funnily enough, the one system in Europe that is closest to our mad NHS system had no lockdown at all (Sweden). It will be interesting to reflect on which government got it right.
Lockdown was pretty shit. But if you want to focus on the bright side by contrasting with the darkest, imagine what it must be like for those people in Ukraine at the moment, or even the parents of Russian soldiers. They really have had a lot to complain about.
The lockdown was to prevent rNHS from being overwhelmed, as was the case with the Iranian Health Service in March 2020. The videos of which on Social media were harrowing. This has seemingly become yet another inter generational football where younger people simply seem to think they did it to protect selfish old people and they forget it was all about the NHS which they claim, in general, to revere.
NHS needs replacing
What with? I think we need to look to our western European allies and see what works best in their healthcare models. The founding principle of free at the point of use will be hard to get away from, but there are already cracks in that. Seeing the dentist isn't free for me. I'd argue GP's appointments could go the same way. We should encourage greater levels of health insurance.
As a nation we need to live up to the desire to have a better health service and actually vote for politicians who will deliver it, even if it means more tax paid.
The NHS is highly efficient, a lot of the time, in that we get average care very cheaply. We don't get excellent care, a lot of the time, but then we don't pay enough.
I am ready for a fight. I genuinely hate the people who have been so protected whilst we get fucked.
Put our lives on hold. Fucked.
We should have all refused to lock down, it was a complete waste of time for us. The people protected will be dead soon, we've got years of this shit to come.
I am so, so angry. I have no confidence Labour will sort it out - but the priority is getting Little Rishi and his bunch of fucktards out.
Labour rarely sorts anything out.
But joking aside, the younger generation do have legitimate complaint, though in my experience it is a little simplistic to make demographic divisions. There are plenty of entitled oldies and entitled youngers. There are plenty of whinging oldies and whinging youngsters. There are also those that work bloody hard, don't blame others and become a success in life however that looks, because they seize the day and look for the bright spots rather than the dark.
There are plenty of reasons why we (particularly those in UK) should all be very grateful for the times we live in, despite Brexit, incoming Labour governments, Putin etc. Let us be grateful we were not born in Mariupol.
You make a good point but I was addressing the overwhelming feeling we get from the media and so on who amplify it. I recall the week we spent discussing avocado on toast.
I am not saying all elderly people are bad - but a large minority give the rest a bad name. And for them I am afraid I regret putting my life on hold.
It wasn't just older people that were killed by Covid. Yes they were disproportionately effected. The lockdowns were not designed to save the elderly, they were designed to save our healthcare system. Funnily enough, the one system in Europe that is closest to our mad NHS system had no lockdown at all (Sweden). It will be interesting to reflect on which government got it right.
Lockdown was pretty shit. But if you want to focus on the bright side by contrasting with the darkest, imagine what it must be like for those people in Ukraine at the moment, or even the parents of Russian soldiers. They really have had a lot to complain about.
It's not just lockdown, it is the aftermath. Young people had their lives put on hold because it was the right thing to do yet we are basically now fending for ourselves.
Rishi says he wants to help, has literally anything he's done been aimed at anyone under the age of 90?
We need a PM willing to make some really difficult decisions - end the triple lock and charge NI on all income not just earned. Include pension income as well. Keep or increase the minimum earnings so those only getting a basic state pension don't pay it but all income shoud be charged in the same way as paid work irrespective of how it is acquired.
Sunak won't touch this and sadly I don't think Starmer will either.
SKS definitely won't
I agre. politics says he won't. But do you agree with me he should (from a philosophical point rather than a political one)?
I am ready for a fight. I genuinely hate the people who have been so protected whilst we get fucked.
Put our lives on hold. Fucked.
We should have all refused to lock down, it was a complete waste of time for us. The people protected will be dead soon, we've got years of this shit to come.
I am so, so angry. I have no confidence Labour will sort it out - but the priority is getting Little Rishi and his bunch of fucktards out.
Labour rarely sorts anything out.
But joking aside, the younger generation do have legitimate complaint, though in my experience it is a little simplistic to make demographic divisions. There are plenty of entitled oldies and entitled youngers. There are plenty of whinging oldies and whinging youngsters. There are also those that work bloody hard, don't blame others and become a success in life however that looks, because they seize the day and look for the bright spots rather than the dark.
There are plenty of reasons why we (particularly those in UK) should all be very grateful for the times we live in, despite Brexit, incoming Labour governments, Putin etc. Let us be grateful we were not born in Mariupol.
You make a good point but I was addressing the overwhelming feeling we get from the media and so on who amplify it. I recall the week we spent discussing avocado on toast.
I am not saying all elderly people are bad - but a large minority give the rest a bad name. And for them I am afraid I regret putting my life on hold.
It wasn't just older people that were killed by Covid. Yes they were disproportionately effected. The lockdowns were not designed to save the elderly, they were designed to save our healthcare system. Funnily enough, the one system in Europe that is closest to our mad NHS system had no lockdown at all (Sweden). It will be interesting to reflect on which government got it right.
Lockdown was pretty shit. But if you want to focus on the bright side by contrasting with the darkest, imagine what it must be like for those people in Ukraine at the moment, or even the parents of Russian soldiers. They really have had a lot to complain about.
It's not just lockdown, it is the aftermath. Young people had their lives put on hold because it was the right thing to do yet we are basically now fending for ourselves.
Rishi says he wants to help, has literally anything he's done been aimed at anyone under the age of 90?
We need a PM willing to make some really difficult decisions - end the triple lock and charge NI on all income not just earned. Include pension income as well. Keep or increase the minimum earnings so those only getting a basic state pension don't pay it but all income shoud be charged in the same way as paid work irrespective of how it is acquired.
Sunak won't touch this and sadly I don't think Starmer will either.
SKS definitely won't
I agre. politics says he won't. But do you agree with me he should (from a philosophical point rather than a political one)?
I am ready for a fight. I genuinely hate the people who have been so protected whilst we get fucked.
Put our lives on hold. Fucked.
We should have all refused to lock down, it was a complete waste of time for us. The people protected will be dead soon, we've got years of this shit to come.
I am so, so angry. I have no confidence Labour will sort it out - but the priority is getting Little Rishi and his bunch of fucktards out.
Labour rarely sorts anything out.
But joking aside, the younger generation do have legitimate complaint, though in my experience it is a little simplistic to make demographic divisions. There are plenty of entitled oldies and entitled youngers. There are plenty of whinging oldies and whinging youngsters. There are also those that work bloody hard, don't blame others and become a success in life however that looks, because they seize the day and look for the bright spots rather than the dark.
There are plenty of reasons why we (particularly those in UK) should all be very grateful for the times we live in, despite Brexit, incoming Labour governments, Putin etc. Let us be grateful we were not born in Mariupol.
You make a good point but I was addressing the overwhelming feeling we get from the media and so on who amplify it. I recall the week we spent discussing avocado on toast.
I am not saying all elderly people are bad - but a large minority give the rest a bad name. And for them I am afraid I regret putting my life on hold.
It wasn't just older people that were killed by Covid. Yes they were disproportionately effected. The lockdowns were not designed to save the elderly, they were designed to save our healthcare system. Funnily enough, the one system in Europe that is closest to our mad NHS system had no lockdown at all (Sweden). It will be interesting to reflect on which government got it right.
Lockdown was pretty shit. But if you want to focus on the bright side by contrasting with the darkest, imagine what it must be like for those people in Ukraine at the moment, or even the parents of Russian soldiers. They really have had a lot to complain about.
It's not just lockdown, it is the aftermath. Young people had their lives put on hold because it was the right thing to do yet we are basically now fending for ourselves.
Rishi says he wants to help, has literally anything he's done been aimed at anyone under the age of 90?
I would say that the negatives for young people would have happened covid or not - capitalism wants to extract more value from it's workers to create growth, the easiest way to do that is to pay workers less relative to the value they create, or lay them off completely. Covid exacerbated and highlighted some of these worst things, but if it wasn't covid it would be climate change, or inflation, or whatever other shock to the system would come about and mean government would shit on the young and workers.
What would you replace capitalism with?
Personally - I like the model of grass roots democracy model that is currently happening in Rojava. Like I said further down, I would probably call myself an anarcho communist - I don't really like the existence of states and I think equitable distribution of resources based on need is good.
Capitalism is just "those with capital dictate how markets work" - you can try and make other claims, but it boils down to that. If we want to get into a deeper materialist analysis, about the relationship between value, wealth and labour, we can - but at the end of the day capital accrues to capital, and the more capital you have the more power you have.
There is a minimum voting age. Should there be a maximum voting age?
I doubt that is put seriously, but of course the problem (well, one of them), is that the minimum age is arbitrary but at least clear in aim - at this point you take on adult responsibilities (many of them anyway). With maximum age there are right on oldies who are all about the kiddies, there are people sharp of mind into their 90s and people losing their grip in their 50s, and all manner inbetween.
Perhaps you could go for a symmetry situation, and you set an upper voting age by substracting the minimum voting age from the life expectency average, but that's all a bit silly - women to keep the vote longer? And people bring up how things won't affect the oldies as much, but elections are every 3-5 years, so remove the right from people expected to die in that period? What if they beat the odds?What if someone is over 70 and still working, should they be the same as an inactive 70 year old?
Although the "cyclists need insurance" brigade do have a point. Liability insurance for cyclists is quite sensible.
Adult cyclists who cycle on pavements, which is unlawful, with a "get out of my way, pedestrian scum" attitude, being too wimpy and scared to ride on the roads, need bans slapped on them by magistrates. (It would only take a few Cambridge fellows to feel the long arm of the law for the others to feel "encouraged".)
Guidance from the Police Chief's Association accepts that adults cycling on pavements is OK, when the road is too dangerous, and it is done considerately - as in the vast majority of cases. Guidance was issued in 1999 by the Home Secretary when it became an "offence", and reaffirmed in 2014. The recent case of the manslaughter of the elderly cyclist demonstrates the need, until such time as we have safe facilities everywhere:
The "cyclists need insurance" brigade have no point whatsoever, except in their own sawdust-filled heads.
Lability insurance for people riding bikes usually comes for free with a home contents policy. Some of us have extra insurance via memberships or specialist policies. I have that because I know many motorist vehicle drivers will lie to the police and then lie to the court, and I will need ferocious lawyers should the worst happen, potentially for a civil claim.
These insurance companies include liability insurance in their Home Contents policies:
Apologies for introducing evidence to the debate.
Normally placid people go absolutely bonkers when it comes to cyclists. It's utterly barmy and baffling.
The worst cyclists on the streets of London are without doubt the Just Eat/Deliveroo ones. Most cyclists at least look left then right before going through red lights - the food delivery ones don't even do this.
And I'm the idiot who stops at all the red lights as I see 83% of other cyclists race through them past me.
The powered scooter Just Eats are even worse – appear from behind a tree/wheelie bin and cut up every road user in the postcode.
My niece only yesterday got knocked down by a food delivery company e-bike rider when crossing a pedestrian crossing in London (light was green for pedestrians). Didn't stop and went on their way. She is ok but got lots of brusing and cuts down her arm. Black cabby apparently jumped out his cab to shout and swear at the rider whilst several others stopped to help her.
Obviously no registration plate on the e-bike to track down. She is going to raise it with the well known food delivery company. There is a strong case for registration plates of some description for e-bikes and e-scooters in my view.
Needs dealing with, but number plates will achieve little or nothing.
I'd say that needs appropriate regulation, along with E-Scooters.
Numberplates don't stop hit-and-runs in motor vehicles (there being an estimated 1.75 million vehicles with cloned plates), so they won't on E-Motor Bikes either (which is what a derestricted E-Bike is).
AIUI delivery riders are currently subcontractors who supply their own delivery-bikes, and it is conveniently nothing to do with the food company who get the benefit of the exploitation and over ambitious delivery schedules.
We need the delivery bikes to be supplied by the food delivery company, and for them to be responsible corporately for the legality of their delivery fleet, and the behaviour of their delivery team.
We also need all delivery riders (e-bikes being a different category to e-motorbikes which assist at >15mph) to have the status or "workers" or "employees", with food delivery companies - far easier to regulate - being responsible. Plus enforcement.
That is roughly the pattern being followed across Europe.
The Govt know what they need to do, just as they do for E-Scooters (again - plenty of experience from other countries), and issues such as pavement parking on which they have been sloping shoulders for years.
I am ready for a fight. I genuinely hate the people who have been so protected whilst we get fucked.
Put our lives on hold. Fucked.
We should have all refused to lock down, it was a complete waste of time for us. The people protected will be dead soon, we've got years of this shit to come.
I am so, so angry. I have no confidence Labour will sort it out - but the priority is getting Little Rishi and his bunch of fucktards out.
Labour rarely sorts anything out.
But joking aside, the younger generation do have legitimate complaint, though in my experience it is a little simplistic to make demographic divisions. There are plenty of entitled oldies and entitled youngers. There are plenty of whinging oldies and whinging youngsters. There are also those that work bloody hard, don't blame others and become a success in life however that looks, because they seize the day and look for the bright spots rather than the dark.
There are plenty of reasons why we (particularly those in UK) should all be very grateful for the times we live in, despite Brexit, incoming Labour governments, Putin etc. Let us be grateful we were not born in Mariupol.
You make a good point but I was addressing the overwhelming feeling we get from the media and so on who amplify it. I recall the week we spent discussing avocado on toast.
I am not saying all elderly people are bad - but a large minority give the rest a bad name. And for them I am afraid I regret putting my life on hold.
It wasn't just older people that were killed by Covid. Yes they were disproportionately effected. The lockdowns were not designed to save the elderly, they were designed to save our healthcare system. Funnily enough, the one system in Europe that is closest to our mad NHS system had no lockdown at all (Sweden). It will be interesting to reflect on which government got it right.
Lockdown was pretty shit. But if you want to focus on the bright side by contrasting with the darkest, imagine what it must be like for those people in Ukraine at the moment, or even the parents of Russian soldiers. They really have had a lot to complain about.
It's not just lockdown, it is the aftermath. Young people had their lives put on hold because it was the right thing to do yet we are basically now fending for ourselves.
Rishi says he wants to help, has literally anything he's done been aimed at anyone under the age of 90?
I would say that the negatives for young people would have happened covid or not - capitalism wants to extract more value from it's workers to create growth, the easiest way to do that is to pay workers less relative to the value they create, or lay them off completely. Covid exacerbated and highlighted some of these worst things, but if it wasn't covid it would be climate change, or inflation, or whatever other shock to the system would come about and mean government would shit on the young and workers.
What would you replace capitalism with?
Personally - I like the model of grass roots democracy model that is currently happening in Rojava. Like I said further down, I would probably call myself an anarcho communist - I don't really like the existence of states and I think equitable distribution of resources based on need is good.
Capitalism is just "those with capital dictate how markets work" - you can try and make other claims, but it boils down to that. If we want to get into a deeper materialist analysis, about the relationship between value, wealth and labour, we can - but at the end of the day capital accrues to capital, and the more capital you have the more power you have.
"based on need" is the problem here. How do you measure need? Especially without a state, but even with a state... how?
There is a minimum voting age. Should there be a maximum voting age?
Yes. Minimum should be 16, maximum should be 15.
I don't think there should be a minimum or maximum voting age, as long as you can cast your own vote. I don't think people with dementia lose the right to vote, and many of them have less capability or understanding of the world than some 7 year olds. Considering that often the majority of the voting eligible population chose not to vote anyway, I don't see the issue with allowing the kind of annoying teenager that I would have been (who read newspapers, and followed politics, etc etc) a vote as well. It would actually make politicians have to care about the needs of children without that going through the prism of the desires of parents.
I said we should have let elderly people be protected during COVID and let us all go on about our lives. I received a strong and vocal response that I said I was being ageist and nasty.
Yet anyone can call young people feckless, lazy, stupid, woke and nobody bats an eyelid. No such such as being youngist!
The truth is, you oldies have fucked it for the young of this country. We are fed up and angry with you (not all of you but a lot of you).
I think this idea is nonsense. Many many younger people died of covid in the first year. It was not just a threat to the over 70's. And if we had done as you now suggest (after your Damascene conversion on lockdowns) the hospitals would have been overwhelmed with covid patients when you presented with something else and didn't get treated.
Success of lockdowns has led, as predicted, to people saying they weren't needed.
That's a bit head I win, tails you lose, logic by you there though.
You can claim they were needed because they worked, but where's the evidence for that?
Sweden did better than us in preserving liberty and they didn't exactly all die in Sweden as a result now, did they?
It’s a bit boring how everyone keeps talking about Sweden. Lots of countries did different things, and there were other countries without lockdowns, like Japan, South Korea, Taiwan (all of whom learnt lessons from SARS), as well as places from Tanzania to Uruguay.
However, you also have to look at what those countries did do, how they fared in the pandemic, and geography, of course. But, please, can we move on from the tedium of “But Sweden!”
Even if inflation falls Sunak can hardly bring out the bunting given to get there it would have driven many people to lose their homes .
On another note am I the only one fed up of the moralizing crap from people who seek to judge those who just wanted to own their own home . The situation was vastly different 20 years ago .
People took out mortgages and could never have envisaged the rapid change in interest rates over the space of just over a year.
There seems to be a lot of mean spiritedness about which I find appalling when some people are going to be sick with worry over what will happen to their mortgages .
Indeed. PB at its curtain-twitching worst.
Yuk.
It boils my piss.
If you are under the age of 45 the economy has handed you a shit sandwich and getting onto the housing ladder has been the only, narrow window for material advancement.
As usual, the boomers have no idea and merely pour scorn on those that follow. This, even as their last great idea, Brexit, is widely understood as an absolute disaster.
As someone in my early 30s I also find it increasingly annoying that we have not only been handed a shitty economy but that if any of us argue for a better one, or a better future in general, we often get called entitled or (as we have been discussing today) "elites".
It's weird that the sub 30s make up a small part of the population, and have only Bern economically active a short time, yet its their profligacy and entitlement which must be addressed to fix things.
Lord knows post Millennials have their annoyances but I think detective poirot can search for other suspects.
I am also similar age to the poster above, the Tories and their friends call me entitled and lazy despite the fact I have worked every day since I was 18 years old. Fuck off.
Lazy git , that is 6 good years you sat on your fat arse
I am ready for a fight. I genuinely hate the people who have been so protected whilst we get fucked.
Put our lives on hold. Fucked.
We should have all refused to lock down, it was a complete waste of time for us. The people protected will be dead soon, we've got years of this shit to come.
I am so, so angry. I have no confidence Labour will sort it out - but the priority is getting Little Rishi and his bunch of fucktards out.
Labour rarely sorts anything out.
But joking aside, the younger generation do have legitimate complaint, though in my experience it is a little simplistic to make demographic divisions. There are plenty of entitled oldies and entitled youngers. There are plenty of whinging oldies and whinging youngsters. There are also those that work bloody hard, don't blame others and become a success in life however that looks, because they seize the day and look for the bright spots rather than the dark.
There are plenty of reasons why we (particularly those in UK) should all be very grateful for the times we live in, despite Brexit, incoming Labour governments, Putin etc. Let us be grateful we were not born in Mariupol.
You make a good point but I was addressing the overwhelming feeling we get from the media and so on who amplify it. I recall the week we spent discussing avocado on toast.
I am not saying all elderly people are bad - but a large minority give the rest a bad name. And for them I am afraid I regret putting my life on hold.
It wasn't just older people that were killed by Covid. Yes they were disproportionately effected. The lockdowns were not designed to save the elderly, they were designed to save our healthcare system. Funnily enough, the one system in Europe that is closest to our mad NHS system had no lockdown at all (Sweden). It will be interesting to reflect on which government got it right.
Lockdown was pretty shit. But if you want to focus on the bright side by contrasting with the darkest, imagine what it must be like for those people in Ukraine at the moment, or even the parents of Russian soldiers. They really have had a lot to complain about.
The lockdown was to prevent rNHS from being overwhelmed, as was the case with the Iranian Health Service in March 2020. The videos of which on Social media were harrowing. This has seemingly become yet another inter generational football where younger people simply seem to think they did it to protect selfish old people and they forget it was all about the NHS which they claim, in general, to revere.
There is quite a bit of shifting from 'we did too much of lockdowns/etc' to 'any measures were bullshit'.
Boris wanted higher wages. He’s got higher wages. He let the inflation genie out of the bottle to generate short term headlines. Who was chancellor? It happened on their watch.
What higher wages? Where are the inflation beating pay rises?
People who have changed jobs, especially at the bottom end of the scale, are those with the above-inflation raises.
I assume these historically normal interest rates are going to kill the car lease market too, so every man and his dog isn't going to be driving round in a flash Audi? Or was depreciation 90% of the cost?
Might cause difficulty for the ULEZ plans if most people can't afford to replace their car.
I'd expect the current situation to really hurt the car industry - PCP deals are going to get more expensive at the same time as there is a massive squeeze on household incomes. I'm supprised the wheels haven't fallen off the PCP market sooner - given how leveraged the lease system is, I thought that it was quite likely to be the cause of the next crisis, rather than merely a unwilling participant. The only thing saving their bacon a bit is that used cars are amongst the things with the highest levels of inflation - I.e. the stuff coming back off lease will be worth more expected.
I'd expect sales of new cars (on finance or otherwise) to fall of a cliff, which the motor industry won't enjoy very much.
(I remain quite happy with my £500 2008 diesel VW Passat Estate - 72 mpg on a run last week, 63mpg over the last tank (~900 miles). About 10.5p/mile with no depreciation cost - that's a similar cost to an electric car charged at home, despite the huge tax arbitrarage in favour of the electric car).
There must be something wrong with our Volvo D4 engine - can’t seem to get more than 52mpg out of it, even though it mostly drives long distance runs. Trouble is, we drive so little it’s not worth the effort to get a problem like that diagnosed & fixed. Presumably a sensor has died somewhere, but which one?
(It is ULEZ compliant IIRC, did they sacrifice efficiency to meet emissions limits?)
ULEZ compliance hits diesel consumption quite hard. Mine is only a Euro 5 engine, but it takes quite a long way (~20miles) for the mpg to recover from the hit it takes on a cold start as it stuffs diesel down the exhaust to get the DPF working. I turn the engine back off and coast down the big hill from my house to the town centre every morning to minimise this (so it heats the dpf up with waste heat on the steep climb out of town, not in a idling phase, it turns out doing this improves the overall mpg for my work commute (23 miles) by about 3mpg. The DPF and EGR are getting deleted next MOT, apparently it should come back doing about 5-6mpg more and a few extra horses.
Driving style matters a lot - never let it rev over 2k, ideally change up at about 1400rpm. Motorway cruse at a real (GPS) 65mph returns over 70mpg, push that to 75mph and it's 50mpg. Conserve energy carefully, drive country roads with a coast and burn cycle matching the terrain (I knock the engine off anywhere with a modest downhill gradient, it rolls really well). Warm weather helps - in December I was only getting 65mpg from a 65mph motorway cruse.
I can usually get better the book "extra urban" figure in everything I drive (54.3mpg for my Passat) - almost everybody gets less - mostly because the don't teach people to drive efficiently. (When I met my wife she was in the habit of driving round with her car in 3rd at 35mph and revving at about 3000rpm - apparently this was advice from a speed awareness course to be in a gear matching the limit - ie. 30mph 3rd, 40mph 4th, 50mph 5th. She was a bit horrified when I explained that you should probably be in 5th over 25mph unless you're overtaking or climbing a massive hill...)
So, down with the kids Rishi says if you're worried about stuff not to worry, because he's "totally on it and it's going to be okay". Well, that's me reassured. It's so clumsy, at best.
It may not be his fault, but one of his many problems is that absolutely everybody knows that, financially, Sunak is definitely going to be okay, but he's not in a position to give that reassurance to the vast majority of us.
I am ready for a fight. I genuinely hate the people who have been so protected whilst we get fucked.
Put our lives on hold. Fucked.
We should have all refused to lock down, it was a complete waste of time for us. The people protected will be dead soon, we've got years of this shit to come.
I am so, so angry. I have no confidence Labour will sort it out - but the priority is getting Little Rishi and his bunch of fucktards out.
Labour rarely sorts anything out.
But joking aside, the younger generation do have legitimate complaint, though in my experience it is a little simplistic to make demographic divisions. There are plenty of entitled oldies and entitled youngers. There are plenty of whinging oldies and whinging youngsters. There are also those that work bloody hard, don't blame others and become a success in life however that looks, because they seize the day and look for the bright spots rather than the dark.
There are plenty of reasons why we (particularly those in UK) should all be very grateful for the times we live in, despite Brexit, incoming Labour governments, Putin etc. Let us be grateful we were not born in Mariupol.
You make a good point but I was addressing the overwhelming feeling we get from the media and so on who amplify it. I recall the week we spent discussing avocado on toast.
I am not saying all elderly people are bad - but a large minority give the rest a bad name. And for them I am afraid I regret putting my life on hold.
It wasn't just older people that were killed by Covid. Yes they were disproportionately effected. The lockdowns were not designed to save the elderly, they were designed to save our healthcare system. Funnily enough, the one system in Europe that is closest to our mad NHS system had no lockdown at all (Sweden). It will be interesting to reflect on which government got it right.
Lockdown was pretty shit. But if you want to focus on the bright side by contrasting with the darkest, imagine what it must be like for those people in Ukraine at the moment, or even the parents of Russian soldiers. They really have had a lot to complain about.
It's not just lockdown, it is the aftermath. Young people had their lives put on hold because it was the right thing to do yet we are basically now fending for ourselves.
Rishi says he wants to help, has literally anything he's done been aimed at anyone under the age of 90?
I would say that the negatives for young people would have happened covid or not - capitalism wants to extract more value from it's workers to create growth, the easiest way to do that is to pay workers less relative to the value they create, or lay them off completely. Covid exacerbated and highlighted some of these worst things, but if it wasn't covid it would be climate change, or inflation, or whatever other shock to the system would come about and mean government would shit on the young and workers.
What would you replace capitalism with?
Personally - I like the model of grass roots democracy model that is currently happening in Rojava. Like I said further down, I would probably call myself an anarcho communist - I don't really like the existence of states and I think equitable distribution of resources based on need is good.
Capitalism is just "those with capital dictate how markets work" - you can try and make other claims, but it boils down to that. If we want to get into a deeper materialist analysis, about the relationship between value, wealth and labour, we can - but at the end of the day capital accrues to capital, and the more capital you have the more power you have.
"based on need" is the problem here. How do you measure need? Especially without a state, but even with a state... how?
I am ready for a fight. I genuinely hate the people who have been so protected whilst we get fucked.
Put our lives on hold. Fucked.
We should have all refused to lock down, it was a complete waste of time for us. The people protected will be dead soon, we've got years of this shit to come.
I am so, so angry. I have no confidence Labour will sort it out - but the priority is getting Little Rishi and his bunch of fucktards out.
Labour rarely sorts anything out.
But joking aside, the younger generation do have legitimate complaint, though in my experience it is a little simplistic to make demographic divisions. There are plenty of entitled oldies and entitled youngers. There are plenty of whinging oldies and whinging youngsters. There are also those that work bloody hard, don't blame others and become a success in life however that looks, because they seize the day and look for the bright spots rather than the dark.
There are plenty of reasons why we (particularly those in UK) should all be very grateful for the times we live in, despite Brexit, incoming Labour governments, Putin etc. Let us be grateful we were not born in Mariupol.
You make a good point but I was addressing the overwhelming feeling we get from the media and so on who amplify it. I recall the week we spent discussing avocado on toast.
I am not saying all elderly people are bad - but a large minority give the rest a bad name. And for them I am afraid I regret putting my life on hold.
It wasn't just older people that were killed by Covid. Yes they were disproportionately effected. The lockdowns were not designed to save the elderly, they were designed to save our healthcare system. Funnily enough, the one system in Europe that is closest to our mad NHS system had no lockdown at all (Sweden). It will be interesting to reflect on which government got it right.
Lockdown was pretty shit. But if you want to focus on the bright side by contrasting with the darkest, imagine what it must be like for those people in Ukraine at the moment, or even the parents of Russian soldiers. They really have had a lot to complain about.
It's not just lockdown, it is the aftermath. Young people had their lives put on hold because it was the right thing to do yet we are basically now fending for ourselves.
Rishi says he wants to help, has literally anything he's done been aimed at anyone under the age of 90?
Stop it , you will have me in tears soon. What the f*** did you put on hold to help anyone you selfish git.
The 5% raise is just the latest kick in the teeth. I do not know how I am going to afford my mortgage when my fixed rate ends, I have no confidence the next lot will help me.
Aspire to own a home they said, I worked hard, got a better job, got a pay rise and I get fucked over. The elderly get a free ride.
I should migrate. I really should.
*Waves from 3,500 miles away*
Come on over to the dark side. I’ll even buy you a beer.
A Cambridge college attended by the missing explorer Hamish Harding has been criticised for hosting an “unsettling” submarine-themed ball just hours before oxygen on his craft was expected to run out.
Pembroke College students attended an “Into the Depths” ball, themed on under-sea exploration, and sang sea shanties on Wednesday night.
A second-year student, who asked not to be named, said they were “incredibly shocked” by the ball’s “unsettling” theme.
They continued: “I had no idea that Hamish Harding went to Pembroke and definitely feel that a statement making attendees aware of this before we went should have been made.
“Although I recognise the limited options that the committee had in this situation, I wish I had at least known beforehand. It has really cast a shadow over the night for me.”
‘Too late to change theme’
The college said that by the time the OceanGate Titanic expedition had become an international rescue mission, it was too late to change its theme.
Mr Harding, a billionaire British businessman, attended the college in the 1980s and is among five people believed to be trapped on a submersible craft in the Atlantic Ocean.
I said we should have let elderly people be protected during COVID and let us all go on about our lives. I received a strong and vocal response that I said I was being ageist and nasty.
Yet anyone can call young people feckless, lazy, stupid, woke and nobody bats an eyelid. No such such as being youngist!
The truth is, you oldies have fucked it for the young of this country. We are fed up and angry with you (not all of you but a lot of you).
I think this idea is nonsense. Many many younger people died of covid in the first year. It was not just a threat to the over 70's. And if we had done as you now suggest (after your Damascene conversion on lockdowns) the hospitals would have been overwhelmed with covid patients when you presented with something else and didn't get treated.
Success of lockdowns has led, as predicted, to people saying they weren't needed.
That's a bit head I win, tails you lose, logic by you there though.
You can claim they were needed because they worked, but where's the evidence for that?
Sweden did better than us in preserving liberty and they didn't exactly all die in Sweden as a result now, did they?
Sweden is not the UK. Compared to Norway etc Sweden did considerably worse.
I hope that the inquiry will lead to a better strategy, should such a situation ever arise again.
On what metric did Sweden do considerably worse than Norway?
On the metric of preserving liberty Sweden did far, far, far better than Norway.
According to the less-important metric of deaths that was presented in the media yesterday, Sweden did better than Norway too.
Sweden had 12 times the number of covid deaths per capita compared to Noway. And that metric you presented for deaths has alredy been completely debunked and heavily criticised by - the Swedes.
It's based, I think on the Spectator article data, that starts in January 2020, when the Swedish death rate was already running 5% below trend.
It is also worth noting that the Norwegian death rate - for reasons I do not fully comprehend - is extremely volatile. Using a particular year as your comparison (5 years previously) rather than the average for the period smacks of deciding on your conclusion, and then working towards it.
I was wondering which lefty rent-a-gob would win the submarine award today.
Step forward Ash Sarkar.
'If the super-rich can spend £250,000 on vanity jaunts 2.4 miles beneath the ocean then they're not being taxed enough.'
I'm sorry, but when hubris meets nemesis then catharsis happens.
A load of rich people ignored a load of safety standards to go oggle a well known monument to hubris and catastrophe, and then disappear? If that were in a modern retelling of An Inspector Calls, that would be considered too on the nose, not subtle enough, a bit heavy handed.
The people involved are still human beings, with families and friends.
It’s not surprising that some idiots don’t have an ounce of compassion in their bodies though, and instead decide to embody David Cameron’s famous remark about Twitter.
There are plenty of off-colour jokes that could be made about a tragedy. This isn’t one of them.
Here we go - a joke. Where tragedy meets comedy.
Well that's next week's "Black Mirror" episode sorted...
So, down with the kids Rishi says if you're worried about stuff not to worry, because he's "totally on it and it's going to be okay". Well, that's me reassured. It's so clumsy, at best.
It may not be his fault, but one of his many problems is that absolutely everybody knows that, financially, Sunak is definitely going to be okay, but he's not in a position to give that reassurance to the vast majority of us.
It can be true that people turn off from overly pessimistic doomsayers, and go for a more chirpy, optimistic leader, especially when things don't really seem that bad to most people.
Problem for Sunak is that this time things really are that bad, with so many more people not used to struggling with mortgages and foodshops suddenly finding the need to worry about it.
And so the doomsayers get more of a hearing, and his CBeebies earnestness, not necessarily unwelcome in all circumstances, looks a bit demented.
There is a minimum voting age. Should there be a maximum voting age?
Yes. Minimum should be 16, maximum should be 15.
I don't think there should be a minimum or maximum voting age, as long as you can cast your own vote. I don't think people with dementia lose the right to vote, and many of them have less capability or understanding of the world than some 7 year olds. Considering that often the majority of the voting eligible population chose not to vote anyway, I don't see the issue with allowing the kind of annoying teenager that I would have been (who read newspapers, and followed politics, etc etc) a vote as well. It would actually make politicians have to care about the needs of children without that going through the prism of the desires of parents.
In all seriousness, I don't agree with maximum voting ages. I hope my glib and absurd answer wasn't taken seriously.
Testing suitability for maturity is fraught with difficulties. Who sets the test?
I'd make it a flat 16 years old for all legal residents. That includes foreign born and prisoners too.
I am ready for a fight. I genuinely hate the people who have been so protected whilst we get fucked.
Put our lives on hold. Fucked.
We should have all refused to lock down, it was a complete waste of time for us. The people protected will be dead soon, we've got years of this shit to come.
I am so, so angry. I have no confidence Labour will sort it out - but the priority is getting Little Rishi and his bunch of fucktards out.
I partly agree, and partly very much disagree. We could have an economic system that protects the elderly and the young. Instead a concerted effort by those in power to cater specifically to the elderly has rotted the brains of many a boomer. Yes, there is intergenerational warfare, but it is not the elderly who are to blame, rather the capitalist indoctrination they have been fed over decades. I would also argue that lock down was good, as a 32 year old who caught covid last year and is still feeling the negative effects of Long Covid, and imagining how much worse that would be personally if I wasn't vaxxed / got it pre-vax, and how much worse off everyone would be if that was repeated across the entire population.
Maybe I'm biased coz I love my grandparents dearly and they are both not quite boomers, having been children during WW2 rather than being born after it and are also pretty lefty themselves; my Great Nan having literally hosted Communist meetings in her council house kitchen in the post war era.
I didn't say all elderly people, I said some. The ones who call me lazy and feckless for a start, fuck them.
I believe me putting my life on hold was a waste of time and I bitterly regret doing it out of kindness. I really do at this point with some of the shit these people say to me.
Good response though.
I get it - I had the whole "I'm turning 30 and want to find a partner and get my life together and celebrate with friends" thing collapse, my 30th in lockdown, 2 years not seeing family except on screen, it was awful - but I do think at the end of the day it was probably the right course of action for the health of most people, especially the most vulnerable. It isn't helped by the attitude of many people here, I agree, but this isn't a reddit page - it's a political betting one; a subset of people interested in politics who are also nominally interested in betting on it - so a group that trends towards older with disposable income to lose on bets.
They aren't everyone, and that sacrifice you made out of empathy for your fellow person is important. I'm glad the brain rot of "everyone is an island" and "there is no such thing as society, only the individual and the family unit" is less so in our generation. We can build something new. Unfortunately it does seem like it will have to be out of the ashes of the old, even if it would be preferable to not have to have everything burn down around us.
The clown did it for himself and he has not the brains to realise the imaginary people he supposedly did it for had their lives on hold and hav emuch shorter life spans left in general than the whining idiot himself. Sacrifice my arse, he could not spell it.
'@GoodwinMJ · 17h The old elite projected their social status through their wealth, estates & titles. The new elite project their status & distinguish themselves from the masses by preaching radical woke progressivism'
I think the main difference between the old and the new elite is that the old elite was mostly honest, whereas the new elite is often dishonest. The old elite never pretended to be anything other than what it was. The new elite is often pretending to be other than what it actually is.
I'm not sure that's true, at least since the invention of newspapers. Who was the American billionaire at the turn of the 19th/20th centuries who had very good media management and cultivated an image of benefitor of the poor? I think it was Carnegie, but happy to be corrected.
Scots-American. Libraries all over Scotland, a Carnegie fund which is still working, etc. etc. Edit: all very muich self-help, wortk hard and you can be a rich bastard like me etc. (NB. Have not read his writings in detail to check how far he qualified that message.)
His idea of a holiday but and ben was Skibo Castle.
The Carnegie Birthplace is quite something, to be seen on a day out to Dunfermline besides the abbey and palace.
He was born in *one* of those two weaver's cottages. To which he added this commeorative extension ...
And he funded the Diplodocus dinosaur skeleton excavation, now in the museum at Pittsburgh, and the many plaster casts given to crowned heads (in preference) across the world.
Though not sure about his PR skills re such things as the Pittsburgh steel strike and armed putdown.
Yes I think that's the fella, thank you. "Look I am wonderful! I have built things for the poor, who love me. Huzzah for Carnegie!" whilst breaking striker's knees with baseball bats.
I am ready for a fight. I genuinely hate the people who have been so protected whilst we get fucked.
Put our lives on hold. Fucked.
We should have all refused to lock down, it was a complete waste of time for us. The people protected will be dead soon, we've got years of this shit to come.
I am so, so angry. I have no confidence Labour will sort it out - but the priority is getting Little Rishi and his bunch of fucktards out.
Labour rarely sorts anything out.
But joking aside, the younger generation do have legitimate complaint, though in my experience it is a little simplistic to make demographic divisions. There are plenty of entitled oldies and entitled youngers. There are plenty of whinging oldies and whinging youngsters. There are also those that work bloody hard, don't blame others and become a success in life however that looks, because they seize the day and look for the bright spots rather than the dark.
There are plenty of reasons why we (particularly those in UK) should all be very grateful for the times we live in, despite Brexit, incoming Labour governments, Putin etc. Let us be grateful we were not born in Mariupol.
You make a good point but I was addressing the overwhelming feeling we get from the media and so on who amplify it. I recall the week we spent discussing avocado on toast.
I am not saying all elderly people are bad - but a large minority give the rest a bad name. And for them I am afraid I regret putting my life on hold.
It wasn't just older people that were killed by Covid. Yes they were disproportionately effected. The lockdowns were not designed to save the elderly, they were designed to save our healthcare system. Funnily enough, the one system in Europe that is closest to our mad NHS system had no lockdown at all (Sweden). It will be interesting to reflect on which government got it right.
Lockdown was pretty shit. But if you want to focus on the bright side by contrasting with the darkest, imagine what it must be like for those people in Ukraine at the moment, or even the parents of Russian soldiers. They really have had a lot to complain about.
It's not just lockdown, it is the aftermath. Young people had their lives put on hold because it was the right thing to do yet we are basically now fending for ourselves.
Rishi says he wants to help, has literally anything he's done been aimed at anyone under the age of 90?
I would say that the negatives for young people would have happened covid or not - capitalism wants to extract more value from it's workers to create growth, the easiest way to do that is to pay workers less relative to the value they create, or lay them off completely. Covid exacerbated and highlighted some of these worst things, but if it wasn't covid it would be climate change, or inflation, or whatever other shock to the system would come about and mean government would shit on the young and workers.
What would you replace capitalism with?
Personally - I like the model of grass roots democracy model that is currently happening in Rojava. Like I said further down, I would probably call myself an anarcho communist - I don't really like the existence of states and I think equitable distribution of resources based on need is good.
Capitalism is just "those with capital dictate how markets work" - you can try and make other claims, but it boils down to that. If we want to get into a deeper materialist analysis, about the relationship between value, wealth and labour, we can - but at the end of the day capital accrues to capital, and the more capital you have the more power you have.
"based on need" is the problem here. How do you measure need? Especially without a state, but even with a state... how?
You vote on it, negotiate and come to a consensus. Rojava has local assemblies that are direct democracies with essentially everyone involved in the vote, who then vote on local needs and can choose to send representatives to assemblies that represent larger geographic areas (but instead of being voted to act on their judgement, they are just representatives of the decision of the local assembly). Those representatives then bring back the decision and votes can happen with the new info. Is it slow, yes, but if things are emergencies people can vote to do what they can locally, and then go through the same process.
I can suggest the podcast The Women's War, where 2 conflict journalists go to Rojava and talk to people there, as well as just researching into Rojava and Abdullah Öcalan.
I said we should have let elderly people be protected during COVID and let us all go on about our lives. I received a strong and vocal response that I said I was being ageist and nasty.
Yet anyone can call young people feckless, lazy, stupid, woke and nobody bats an eyelid. No such such as being youngist!
The truth is, you oldies have fucked it for the young of this country. We are fed up and angry with you (not all of you but a lot of you).
I think this idea is nonsense. Many many younger people died of covid in the first year. It was not just a threat to the over 70's. And if we had done as you now suggest (after your Damascene conversion on lockdowns) the hospitals would have been overwhelmed with covid patients when you presented with something else and didn't get treated.
Success of lockdowns has led, as predicted, to people saying they weren't needed.
Lockdown was successful at saving lives, I never disagreed with that. I cheerlead for them after all.
They were pointless because the impact on the country has been worse than if we'd not bothered. If you are under 45 honestly what has been the upside?
There is a minimum voting age. Should there be a maximum voting age?
Yes. Minimum should be 16, maximum should be 15.
I don't think there should be a minimum or maximum voting age, as long as you can cast your own vote. I don't think people with dementia lose the right to vote, and many of them have less capability or understanding of the world than some 7 year olds. Considering that often the majority of the voting eligible population chose not to vote anyway, I don't see the issue with allowing the kind of annoying teenager that I would have been (who read newspapers, and followed politics, etc etc) a vote as well. It would actually make politicians have to care about the needs of children without that going through the prism of the desires of parents.
In all seriousness, I don't agree with maximum voting ages. I hope my glib and absurd answer wasn't taken seriously.
Testing suitability for maturity is fraught with difficulties. Who sets the test?
I'd make it a flat 16 years old for all legal residents. That includes foreign born and prisoners too.
I didn't say a test for maturity - I just said if they choose to vote, they can. If a five year old goes into the booth and scribbles on the page, that's a dud vote. If a 7 year old goes into the booth and ticks against a party because they like the logo, fine, that's a vote - I've spoken to adults who've voted for people based on less serious reasons.
I am ready for a fight. I genuinely hate the people who have been so protected whilst we get fucked.
Put our lives on hold. Fucked.
We should have all refused to lock down, it was a complete waste of time for us. The people protected will be dead soon, we've got years of this shit to come.
I am so, so angry. I have no confidence Labour will sort it out - but the priority is getting Little Rishi and his bunch of fucktards out.
Re: your mortgage affordability I have great sympathy but without meaning to pry I shall pry and ask whether you are interest only or repayment?
I've only ever had a interest-only mortgage and consequently have very low monthly costs with large tolerance for rates increasing - and I reduce capital in chunks on an ad hoc basis. I'm wondering whether people with repayment mortgages realise this is an option with lenders (there may need to be some equity in the property). The other thing to consider is extending the term.
The clown likely inherited a house and has nothing to pay , just a whining git. I would love to know these people he gave up his life for, nothing short of an absolute bellend.
Can any experts opine on the submarine disaster, the odds of survival must be close to zero now?
Isn't this a situation where we don't have enough information to say? I heard someone on the radio say that something catastrophic could have happened and they've been dead for two days now.
So, down with the kids Rishi says if you're worried about stuff not to worry, because he's "totally on it and it's going to be okay". Well, that's me reassured. It's so clumsy, at best.
It may not be his fault, but one of his many problems is that absolutely everybody knows that, financially, Sunak is definitely going to be okay, but he's not in a position to give that reassurance to the vast majority of us.
It can be true that people turn off from overly pessimistic doomsayers, and go for a more chirpy, optimistic leader, especially when things don't really seem that bad to most people.
Problem for Sunak is that this time things really are that bad, with so many more people not used to struggling with mortgages and foodshops suddenly finding the need to worry about it.
And so the doomsayers get more of a hearing, and his CBeebies earnestness, not necessarily unwelcome in all circumstances, looks a bit demented.
Boosterism worked for Boris. Until the shit hit the fan.
It won't ever work for Rishi - he just can't do it without sounding like a little kid eager to please.
I am ready for a fight. I genuinely hate the people who have been so protected whilst we get fucked.
Put our lives on hold. Fucked.
We should have all refused to lock down, it was a complete waste of time for us. The people protected will be dead soon, we've got years of this shit to come.
I am so, so angry. I have no confidence Labour will sort it out - but the priority is getting Little Rishi and his bunch of fucktards out.
Re: your mortgage affordability I have great sympathy but without meaning to pry I shall pry and ask whether you are interest only or repayment?
I've only ever had a interest-only mortgage and consequently have very low monthly costs with large tolerance for rates increasing - and I reduce capital in chunks on an ad hoc basis. I'm wondering whether people with repayment mortgages realise this is an option with lenders (there may need to be some equity in the property). The other thing to consider is extending the term.
The clown likely inherited a house and has nothing to pay , just a whining git. I would love to know these people he gave up his life for, nothing short of an absolute bellend.
Even if inflation falls Sunak can hardly bring out the bunting given to get there it would have driven many people to lose their homes .
On another note am I the only one fed up of the moralizing crap from people who seek to judge those who just wanted to own their own home . The situation was vastly different 20 years ago .
People took out mortgages and could never have envisaged the rapid change in interest rates over the space of just over a year.
There seems to be a lot of mean spiritedness about which I find appalling when some people are going to be sick with worry over what will happen to their mortgages .
Indeed. PB at its curtain-twitching worst.
Yuk.
It boils my piss.
If you are under the age of 45 the economy has handed you a shit sandwich and getting onto the housing ladder has been the only, narrow window for material advancement.
As usual, the boomers have no idea and merely pour scorn on those that follow. This, even as their last great idea, Brexit, is widely understood as an absolute disaster.
As someone in my early 30s I also find it increasingly annoying that we have not only been handed a shitty economy but that if any of us argue for a better one, or a better future in general, we often get called entitled or (as we have been discussing today) "elites".
It's weird that the sub 30s make up a small part of the population, and have only Bern economically active a short time, yet its their profligacy and entitlement which must be addressed to fix things.
Lord knows post Millennials have their annoyances but I think detective poirot can search for other suspects.
I am also similar age to the poster above, the Tories and their friends call me entitled and lazy despite the fact I have worked every day since I was 18 years old. Fuck off.
Hang on, I think I noticed yesterday it was that intellectual colossus called Malcolm who made some rant about how all young people are lazy. You said nothing, like so many people on here who are terrified of standing up to the loud mothed bully.
If it came from MalcolmG we probably ignored it as the whingeing of an old (I'm alright, Jock) man...
The amusing thing was that he referred to young people as "whingers". It is rare to come across someone with so little self awareness and propensity for psychological projection.
I don't know what anyone on the site looks like, but I have my own mental images. In Malcolm's case, it's Father Jack from Father Ted, but with a Scottish accent.
Feersum , you are mistaken , however we do know what Foreskin looks like
Can any experts opine on the submarine disaster, the odds of survival must be close to zero now?
Isn't this a situation where we don't have enough information to say? I heard someone on the radio say that something catastrophic could have happened and they've been dead for two days now.
Comments
@AndrewSparrow
Sunak says 'standards matter' - but he again refuses to say if he agrees with privilege committee findings about Boris Johnson -
@AdamBienkov
Rishi Sunak tells an IKEA worker, whose family is struggling to get treatment on the NHS, that he has a "really, really good plan" to solve the problem, which involves "being a bit clever about how we do things."
So 3 firsts for me this trip. My first earthquake, a crayfish nowhere near water and a goat sitting on a bar chair. He didn't even buy his round.
https://www.kino.dk/personer/frank-hvam
The actor who plays the monk guy who "greets" Sam when Sam arrives at the citadel in Game of Thrones.
The later lockdowns came about for various reasons, but at heart, without the vaccines, the death toll was too high for society to stand (see the vast support for lockdowns and restrictions in society). We made a lot of mistakes. Probably could have had a lot more outdoor mixing all through. Eat out to help out, but only outside. Better support for those isolating, so that they could afford to. But its not that obvious that the economy would have been better off.
Magnificent.
(*) I think.
OK being serious, yes, furlough was aimed under 90. Though I have my suspicions that Sunak was less keen on furlough than he made out, indeed I've heard a rumour (completely unsubstantiated so dismiss if you want) that the reason Sunak was utterly opposed to Boris's Whatsapp messages being released is that one of them would say on it basically that Sunak didn't want to do furlough as it was too expensive and Boris basically saying "just do it" or something like that.
OH PHEW!
I was very anxious he was only "on it" a bit. 👀~AA
https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1671874969750618113
This is karma. We used to poke fun at the US for choosing an Apprentice boss as President and now we've ended up with an first-week-elimination Apprentice contestant as PM. ~AA
I hope that the inquiry will lead to a better strategy, should such a situation ever arise again.
My grandad is now 92 and still healthy, but has a bit of smokers lung from smoking from 14 - 50. If he got covid he would not have made it, and my nan who is in her mid 80s would not have lasted long after him, or if she got covid. I know not everyone can point to their nan, or grandad, and say they made it through - but we did what we did in the hope that most of our loved ones would. I lost one grandparent to complications associated with covid (she was slowly on her way out and that kicked her through the door, so not the real cause of death), but it could have been so much worse, and so much worse for so many more people.
I can't say I did it for the economy, because I didn't. I can't say I did it out of stiff upper lipness, because I didn't. I did it because I didn't want to take action that would result in the deaths of the vulnerable and old, like my grandparents, and I hoped other people would do the same.
Rishi Sunak: net -34 (down 6 from 15-16 June)
Boris Johnson: -52 (down 8)
Keir Starmer: -14 (up 9)
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1671829866927226880
Sunak on his way down down to JC levels now.
On the metric of preserving liberty Sweden did far, far, far better than Norway.
According to the less-important metric of deaths that was presented in the media yesterday, Sweden did better than Norway too.
https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1671883061640974336
Cheers Rishi mate
In about five days, Sunak will finally crack and concede that Boris Johnson lied to Parliament, and that it would have been better if he hadn't, and by that stage, he'll just look fantastically weak.
Unconnected to Duxford, we often get a pair of Apache helicopters travelling east-west or west-east - rumour has it that they're transiting to the Norfolk ranges?
Nowadays its really hard to get on the housing ladder (we were lucky and were gifted a deposit and both have good salaries, and don't want to live in London or indeed Bath), uni, where 50 % of kids are strongly pushed to, costs lots of money that is borrowed, and credit is easy to obtain. The culture of buy now, pay later is embedded and so people are not used to delayed gratification. The mountain of saving required to get that deposit is not easy, I was under the impression that the Swedish version of Chris Witty believed they got it wrong.
All of this is complex. We are having a 3 (maybe longer) year inquiry into it. We won't ever truly know what would have happened on the road not travelled. Its too tempting now to look back and say we shouldn't have done this, we shouldn't have done that.
At the time I believed we opened up too slowly and had some ludicrous rules (masks in pubs when upright but now when sitting and one way systems in the shops). We undoubted made a lot of mistakes. Arguably everywhere did, and usually different mistakes. If you recall the times most of the media, most of the time wanted more lockdown. As did almost all politicians (Starmer, Drakeford, Sturgeon).
Epic.
Sunak won't touch this and sadly I don't think Starmer will either.
This has seemingly become yet another inter generational football where younger people simply seem to think they did it to protect selfish old people and they forget it was all about the NHS which they claim, in general, to revere.
I agree with you that there are merits in cyclists being insured and, as many have pointed out, they often are.
Of the few tough decisions they will be willing to take on it almost certainly will be something particularly trendy at that time - possibly good, possibly not. So you get Brexit, Climate policy, things which in the specifics might be good or bad, and unsexy stuff like telling people the triple lock must go? Falls by the wayside.
As a nation we need to live up to the desire to have a better health service and actually vote for politicians who will deliver it, even if it means more tax paid.
The NHS is highly efficient, a lot of the time, in that we get average care very cheaply. We don't get excellent care, a lot of the time, but then we don't pay enough.
Capitalism is just "those with capital dictate how markets work" - you can try and make other claims, but it boils down to that. If we want to get into a deeper materialist analysis, about the relationship between value, wealth and labour, we can - but at the end of the day capital accrues to capital, and the more capital you have the more power you have.
You might get a vote one day
Perhaps you could go for a symmetry situation, and you set an upper voting age by substracting the minimum voting age from the life expectency average, but that's all a bit silly - women to keep the vote longer? And people bring up how things won't affect the oldies as much, but elections are every 3-5 years, so remove the right from people expected to die in that period? What if they beat the odds?What if someone is over 70 and still working, should they be the same as an inactive 70 year old?
And so on and so on.
I'd say that needs appropriate regulation, along with E-Scooters.
Numberplates don't stop hit-and-runs in motor vehicles (there being an estimated 1.75 million vehicles with cloned plates), so they won't on E-Motor Bikes either (which is what a derestricted E-Bike is).
AIUI delivery riders are currently subcontractors who supply their own delivery-bikes, and it is conveniently nothing to do with the food company who get the benefit of the exploitation and over ambitious delivery schedules.
We need the delivery bikes to be supplied by the food delivery company, and for them to be responsible corporately for the legality of their delivery fleet, and the behaviour of their delivery team.
We also need all delivery riders (e-bikes being a different category to e-motorbikes which assist at >15mph) to have the status or "workers" or "employees", with food delivery companies - far easier to regulate - being responsible. Plus enforcement.
That is roughly the pattern being followed across Europe.
The Govt know what they need to do, just as they do for E-Scooters (again - plenty of experience from other countries), and issues such as pavement parking on which they have been sloping shoulders for years.
They won't do anything, though.
However, you also have to look at what those countries did do, how they fared in the pandemic, and geography, of course. But, please, can we move on from the tedium of “But Sweden!”
Driving style matters a lot - never let it rev over 2k, ideally change up at about 1400rpm. Motorway cruse at a real (GPS) 65mph returns over 70mpg, push that to 75mph and it's 50mpg. Conserve energy carefully, drive country roads with a coast and burn cycle matching the terrain (I knock the engine off anywhere with a modest downhill gradient, it rolls really well). Warm weather helps - in December I was only getting 65mpg from a 65mph motorway cruse.
I can usually get better the book "extra urban" figure in everything I drive (54.3mpg for my Passat) - almost everybody gets less - mostly because the don't teach people to drive efficiently. (When I met my wife she was in the habit of driving round with her car in 3rd at 35mph and revving at about 3000rpm - apparently this was advice from a speed awareness course to be in a gear matching the limit - ie. 30mph 3rd, 40mph 4th, 50mph 5th. She was a bit horrified when I explained that you should probably be in 5th over 25mph unless you're overtaking or climbing a massive hill...)
It may not be his fault, but one of his many problems is that absolutely everybody knows that, financially, Sunak is definitely going to be okay, but he's not in a position to give that reassurance to the vast majority of us.
(it's Dubai, isn't it
Pembroke College students attended an “Into the Depths” ball, themed on under-sea exploration, and sang sea shanties on Wednesday night.
A second-year student, who asked not to be named, said they were “incredibly shocked” by the ball’s “unsettling” theme.
They continued: “I had no idea that Hamish Harding went to Pembroke and definitely feel that a statement making attendees aware of this before we went should have been made.
“Although I recognise the limited options that the committee had in this situation, I wish I had at least known beforehand. It has really cast a shadow over the night for me.”
‘Too late to change theme’
The college said that by the time the OceanGate Titanic expedition had become an international rescue mission, it was too late to change its theme.
Mr Harding, a billionaire British businessman, attended the college in the 1980s and is among five people believed to be trapped on a submersible craft in the Atlantic Ocean.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/06/22/hamish-harding-pembroke-college-host-submarine-themed-ball/
Fuck you
You are a touchy prick aren't you?
It is also worth noting that the Norwegian death rate - for reasons I do not fully comprehend - is extremely volatile. Using a particular year as your comparison (5 years previously) rather than the average for the period smacks of deciding on your conclusion, and then working towards it.
Problem for Sunak is that this time things really are that bad, with so many more people not used to struggling with mortgages and foodshops suddenly finding the need to worry about it.
And so the doomsayers get more of a hearing, and his CBeebies earnestness, not necessarily unwelcome in all circumstances, looks a bit demented.
Testing suitability for maturity is fraught with difficulties. Who sets the test?
I'd make it a flat 16 years old for all legal residents. That includes foreign born and prisoners too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homestead_strike
I can suggest the podcast The Women's War, where 2 conflict journalists go to Rojava and talk to people there, as well as just researching into Rojava and Abdullah Öcalan.
How are people of my age (45) treated better?
You sound like the opposite of the idiot on Question Time who didn't think 90K a year put him in the top 5% of earners.
I’ve only been in the bar for a couple of hours, and I’m already a little tipsy.
It won't ever work for Rishi - he just can't do it without sounding like a little kid eager to please.