THIS is now confirmed by the Wall Street Journal AND the New York Times, all released by officials of the Biden admin
"That a pandemic caused by a bat coronavirus started in the city with the world’s largest programme of research into bat coronaviruses was always intriguing. That among the first people to get ill with allegedly Covid-like symptoms in the month the pandemic began were three scientists working in that lab was highly suspicious.
"Now that we know their names, we find one of them was collecting what turned out to be the closest cousins of Sars-CoV-2 at the time, and another was doing the very experiments that could have created the virus. These revelations make it almost a slam dunk for the coronavirus lab-leak hypothesis."
I am available for personal apologies via DM, if that is emotionally impossible, you can buy me a bottle of decent Englush fizz. Thanks
Oh God, you've said this 6 trillion times. We get it. Enuff
To be fair to Leon, there are STILL some posters that airily say, “oh, it must have been the market because..”
I know, it's incredible. And I bet - as I have said - that some will STILL say this, or modified versions of it. "Oh we can never know, and most viruses are zoonotic", "we haven't really got hard evidence", all that shite
The fact is, the first three people to catch a genetically modified novel bat coronavirus were the three scientists genetically modifying a novel bat coronavirus: in the only lab in the world which was genetically modifying a novel bat coronavirus
In a courtroom, that would get a conviction. It is now beyond reasonable doubt. But there will still be unreasonable doubt, just you watch
Why did they try to stop people saying this all along?
'@GoodwinMJ · 17h The old elite projected their social status through their wealth, estates & titles. The new elite project their status & distinguish themselves from the masses by preaching radical woke progressivism'
Goodwin is really disappearing ever deeper up his own backside.
Yes. It is quite evident that the new elite project their status & distinguish themselves from the masses by uttering mantras which *appear* to be progressive.
The reality is nothing changes, but they all give each other awards for being on message - see the revelation about how much money the Met Police spends on awarding itself awards.
Goodwin just isn't thinking structurally about who the 'elite' are. Being an academic, he probably thinks that leftie academics with pride flags in their twitter profile are a part of the elite - ie it's pure narcissism. The elite are people who control the levers of political and economic power, ie people in business and finance and the Tory party. These are not people you will bump into at a BLM protest, believe me.
The whole misuse of the concept of "elites" by people like HYUFD strikes me as so much playing with fire. To hear populist narratives coming out of the mouths of "conservatives" is disturbing.
The danger is that normalising such language opens the door of the town hall to far worse people than either the stupid conservatives speaking like this or the stupid people they are trying to attack.
Populism isn't a plaything. It's a vicious weapon that should only be unleashed when it's really, really needed. If your target is tweedy academics and pride flags, you can be damn sure it's not needed.
Yes, reading the Spectator these days is like reading a student Trotskyist pamphlet: full of talk of 'our rulers', 'the ruling class', 'the ruling elite' etc. My theory is that a certain type of middle-class conservative bitterly regrets letting the 1970s and punk rock pass them by and is desperate for another go.
The above concept of the "elite" is cribbed from Rob Henderson's theory of "luxury beliefs".
Paraphrasing, we have an overproduction of "elites" i.e. university educated people who in previous times would have demanded high salaries for jobs such as journalism or academia, but due to the change in the job market and the increasing precariousness of the middle class, we have produced too many humanities graduates who are educated but no longer command large salaries. This overly large class of people can no longer compete on traditional wealth based status symbols, so they use their belief system as a signifier of their class.
What is a luxury belief? I've heard people call "gender ideology" a "luxury belief" - despite the fact the vast majority of trans people are working class and poor, disproportionately homeless and suffer from mental health issues related to being ostracised by society; doesn't sound very "luxury" to me. Whereas I would say "trickle down economics" is a pretty "luxury belief" - only the rich can believe it, it justifies their existence and their hoarding of wealth, and it patently doesn't work. Is "equal rights" a luxury belief? "Human rights"? "Society"?
The issue is that on economics, there is no other game in town. History did end, capitalism won. Corbyn and Bernie get called bloody Marxists for wanting to do low level social democratic reforms which are all in aid of keeping capitalism from falling apart under it's own contradictions. So when capitalism is clearly failing but it's easier to imagine the end of the world then it is the end of capitalism, what do you have left?
Social democracy won (even if social democratic parties are vanishing). Most rich world economies have public spending at 40-50% of GDP and extensive welfare states.
Thatcher called Blair her heir. The welfare state has been cut year on year since 2008. Public spending is high due to bungs to private corporations and military spending - and public coffers are empty because of tax cuts after tax cuts. If social democracy is an incrementalistic approach to socialist equality via the ballot box, why is wealth inequality higher now than 50 years ago? You're looking at technological gains and saying that the quality of life is better for most people, therefore society must have improved, but the gap between the richest and poorest is astronomically greater than previously.
I am not sure what planet you are living on but it isn't this one.
Military spending is now less as a % of GDP than it has been in decades. It was 7% in the 1960s and is now 2%. And taxes are higher as a % of GDP than they have been at any time in the last 50 years.
Yes but @148grss's basic observation is right: the gap between rich and poor has ballooned, under both Labour and Tory administrations.
So what?
It makes no difference to my life whether Elon Musk or Richard Branson can afford one flight into space or 1000.
It does make a difference to my life whether my own life is getting better or worse.
Closing the gap by making us all poorer is not progress.
Making us all richer, even if some get much richer than others, is progress.
Inequality is an issue when ~20% of the population skip meals because they can't afford to eat all the time, and have to choose between eating and paying the bills, when other people have the resources to buy luxury yachts and private jets.
The wealth is being created - but it is being redistributed up to the owning class, not to those who actually do the labour. Elon Musk or Richard Branson don't do anything - they buy the means of production and the workers do the work. Relative poverty, affording the basics to engage in society, has increased in the last 40 years, not decreased.
No. 20% of the population skipping meals is a problem in its own right, not because of inequality.
If we were more equal and 60% of the population were skipping meals instead would that be better or worse?
The wealth exists. That some people have astronomically more, and others have so little that they are skipping meals, is a problem. The wealth that the rich have could go to those who do not have it and are therefore having a worse standard of living. There is no conceivable way that wealth redistribution from the richest people who have ridiculous amounts of money, inconceivable amounts of money, money that when put into context is absolutely absurd, would lead to 60% of the population of the population skipping meals - but it could easily make that 0%.
How do you square the belief that an increasing number of people are too poor to eat with the growing levels of obesity?
Because some of the cheapest food is some of the most unhealthy.
Not to say I don't like this new to-the-right-of-Mark Francois @williamglenn but sometimes the auto-responses are a bit too lazy.
I still think you are doing this because it is an amusing role to play (cf your pre-2016 vote persona).
"Ah, this is obviously some strange use of the word 'amusing' that I wasn't previously aware of."
Although the "cyclists need insurance" brigade do have a point. Liability insurance for cyclists is quite sensible.
Adult cyclists who cycle on pavements, which is unlawful, with a "get out of my way, pedestrian scum" attitude, being too wimpy and scared to ride on the roads, need bans slapped on them by magistrates. (It would only take a few Cambridge fellows to feel the long arm of the law for the others to feel "encouraged".)
Guidance from the Police Chief's Association accepts that adults cycling on pavements is OK, when the road is too dangerous, and it is done considerately - as in the vast majority of cases. Guidance was issued in 1999 by the Home Secretary when it became an "offence", and reaffirmed in 2014. The recent case of the manslaughter of the elderly cyclist demonstrates the need, until such time as we have safe facilities everywhere:
The "cyclists need insurance" brigade have no point whatsoever, except in their own sawdust-filled heads.
Lability insurance for people riding bikes usually comes for free with a home contents policy. Some of us have extra insurance via memberships or specialist policies. I have that because I know many motorist vehicle drivers will lie to the police and then lie to the court, and I will need ferocious lawyers should the worst happen, potentially for a civil claim.
These insurance companies include liability insurance in their Home Contents policies:
Apologies for introducing evidence to the debate.
Normally placid people go absolutely bonkers when it comes to cyclists. It's utterly barmy and baffling.
It's jealously. Motorists see my calf muscles go momentarily insane.
I had a shout-off with some driver in a huge fuck off (but white) Jeep Cherokee this morning. I just think many drivers resent the freedom of movement of cyclists. They don't like cyclists filtering either which I think is part of this.
I have to say, depending on the situation, I don't filter. It's nice not to be breathing in the fumes in the middle of the queue, but I hate the lights changing mid-filter. You don't want to be stuck inbetween two lines of cars because people feel ok undertaking when you're on the dashed lines. Which is mad, but it goes on. At traffic lights I always want to be in the middle of a lane until I've cleared the junction because it removes all temptation for the car to squeeze past.
I don't filter as a matter of course. On my (motor)bike yes of course I did but I still idly pondered who many thousands of cars I passed when only one of them would have to be not paying attention and do something stupid to take me out.
There are known choke points in London where filtering makes sense because either there is no cycle bit or someone has blocked it. I don't love it but otherwise you are stuck behind a white van parked on the left with nowhere to squeeze through.
Delivery vans and lorries in rush hour.
See those double red lines? It means "you're allowed to stop and unload, but you have to put your hazards on and shrug apologetically as the number 23 edges through the tiny gap".
I mean, the economy would probably collapse if you didn't get that case of Volvic into that newsagent at precisely 8:40 on a Monday morning. You fucking hero.
Even if inflation falls Sunak can hardly bring out the bunting given to get there it would have driven many people to lose their homes .
On another note am I the only one fed up of the moralizing crap from people who seek to judge those who just wanted to own their own home . The situation was vastly different 20 years ago .
People took out mortgages and could never have envisaged the rapid change in interest rates over the space of just over a year.
There seems to be a lot of mean spiritedness about which I find appalling when some people are going to be sick with worry over what will happen to their mortgages .
Indeed. PB at its curtain-twitching worst.
Yuk.
It boils my piss.
If you are under the age of 45 the economy has handed you a shit sandwich and getting onto the housing ladder has been the only, narrow window for material advancement.
As usual, the boomers have no idea and merely pour scorn on those that follow. This, even as their last great idea, Brexit, is widely understood as an absolute disaster.
As someone in my early 30s I also find it increasingly annoying that we have not only been handed a shitty economy but that if any of us argue for a better one, or a better future in general, we often get called entitled or (as we have been discussing today) "elites".
It's weird that the sub 30s make up a small part of the population, and have only Bern economically active a short time, yet its their profligacy and entitlement which must be addressed to fix things.
Lord knows post Millennials have their annoyances but I think detective poirot can search for other suspects.
I am also similar age to the poster above, the Tories and their friends call me entitled and lazy despite the fact I have worked every day since I was 18 years old. Fuck off.
Even if inflation falls Sunak can hardly bring out the bunting given to get there it would have driven many people to lose their homes .
On another note am I the only one fed up of the moralizing crap from people who seek to judge those who just wanted to own their own home . The situation was vastly different 20 years ago .
People took out mortgages and could never have envisaged the rapid change in interest rates over the space of just over a year.
There seems to be a lot of mean spiritedness about which I find appalling when some people are going to be sick with worry over what will happen to their mortgages .
Indeed. PB at its curtain-twitching worst.
Yuk.
It boils my piss.
If you are under the age of 45 the economy has handed you a shit sandwich and getting onto the housing ladder has been the only, narrow window for material advancement.
As usual, the boomers have no idea and merely pour scorn on those that follow. This, even as their last great idea, Brexit, is widely understood as an absolute disaster.
As someone in my early 30s I also find it increasingly annoying that we have not only been handed a shitty economy but that if any of us argue for a better one, or a better future in general, we often get called entitled or (as we have been discussing today) "elites".
It's weird that the sub 30s make up a small part of the population, and have only Bern economically active a short time, yet its their profligacy and entitlement which must be addressed to fix things.
Lord knows post Millennials have their annoyances but I think detective poirot can search for other suspects.
Although the "cyclists need insurance" brigade do have a point. Liability insurance for cyclists is quite sensible.
Adult cyclists who cycle on pavements, which is unlawful, with a "get out of my way, pedestrian scum" attitude, being too wimpy and scared to ride on the roads, need bans slapped on them by magistrates. (It would only take a few Cambridge fellows to feel the long arm of the law for the others to feel "encouraged".)
Guidance from the Police Chief's Association accepts that adults cycling on pavements is OK, when the road is too dangerous, and it is done considerately - as in the vast majority of cases. Guidance was issued in 1999 by the Home Secretary when it became an "offence", and reaffirmed in 2014. The recent case of the manslaughter of the elderly cyclist demonstrates the need, until such time as we have safe facilities everywhere:
The "cyclists need insurance" brigade have no point whatsoever, except in their own sawdust-filled heads.
Lability insurance for people riding bikes usually comes for free with a home contents policy. Some of us have extra insurance via memberships or specialist policies. I have that because I know many motorist vehicle drivers will lie to the police and then lie to the court, and I will need ferocious lawyers should the worst happen, potentially for a civil claim.
These insurance companies include liability insurance in their Home Contents policies:
Apologies for introducing evidence to the debate.
Normally placid people go absolutely bonkers when it comes to cyclists. It's utterly barmy and baffling.
It's jealously. Motorists see my calf muscles go momentarily insane.
I had a shout-off with some driver in a huge fuck off (but white) Jeep Cherokee this morning. I just think many drivers resent the freedom of movement of cyclists. They don't like cyclists filtering either which I think is part of this.
Unless its a London thing, I think cyclists overestimate how much drivers dislike them. Some drivers are just douchebags, some cyclists are just douchebags, and I'm more likely to get into an argument with another driver than a cyclist.
This morning I had a shout-off (or exchange of banged horns) after I indicated to show I was pulling into the right hand lane, the driver behind in the right hand-lane saw my indicator and took that as a dare to close the gap instead of letting me in, and I pulled in safely anyway. Day before I shouted at another road user to use their indicator after they went around a roundabout in a dangerous manner without using their indicator.
Before that I hadn't been annoyed with any other road use in months and its an extremely long time since a cyclist has pissed me off (red light as almost always).
Sometimes people just don't like other road users for how they're acting. Whether that be people who ride through red lights, or people who don't use their indicator or those who take the indicator as a challenge, its not about cyclist or driver per se.
It's a numbers game, really. As a cyclist you spend a lot of time being overtaken by cars for obvious reasons. So 99 go past perfectly normally and 1 idiot comes too close or shouts at you just for being there, and that's the one you remember. It's easy to feel like everyone hates you because that's just how memory works.
This applies to lots of other situations too, of course. The memorability of extreme examples the main engine of all polarisation.
I'm just back from a cycling holiday and we only had one bad pass the whole time out of hundreds. We were on a Sustrans route and we even had drivers stopping and asking us how we were getting on, telling us about good pubs etc.
That one pass nearly killed us though, so it does stick in the mind.
I guess you mean "pass" as in "motorist going past" but at first I read that as one of the hills on the C2C.
Even if inflation falls Sunak can hardly bring out the bunting given to get there it would have driven many people to lose their homes .
On another note am I the only one fed up of the moralizing crap from people who seek to judge those who just wanted to own their own home . The situation was vastly different 20 years ago .
People took out mortgages and could never have envisaged the rapid change in interest rates over the space of just over a year.
There seems to be a lot of mean spiritedness about which I find appalling when some people are going to be sick with worry over what will happen to their mortgages .
Indeed. PB at its curtain-twitching worst.
Yuk.
It boils my piss.
If you are under the age of 45 the economy has handed you a shit sandwich and getting onto the housing ladder has been the only, narrow window for material advancement.
As usual, the boomers have no idea and merely pour scorn on those that follow. This, even as their last great idea, Brexit, is widely understood as an absolute disaster.
As someone in my early 30s I also find it increasingly annoying that we have not only been handed a shitty economy but that if any of us argue for a better one, or a better future in general, we often get called entitled or (as we have been discussing today) "elites".
It's weird that the sub 30s make up a small part of the population, and have only Bern economically active a short time, yet its their profligacy and entitlement which must be addressed to fix things.
Lord knows post Millennials have their annoyances but I think detective poirot can search for other suspects.
I am also similar age to the poster above, the Tories and their friends call me entitled and lazy despite the fact I have worked every day since I was 18 years old. Fuck off.
Hang on, I think I noticed yesterday it was that intellectual colossus called Malcolm who made some rant about how all young people are lazy. You said nothing, like so many people on here who are terrified of standing up to the loud mothed bully.
THIS is now confirmed by the Wall Street Journal AND the New York Times, all released by officials of the Biden admin
"That a pandemic caused by a bat coronavirus started in the city with the world’s largest programme of research into bat coronaviruses was always intriguing. That among the first people to get ill with allegedly Covid-like symptoms in the month the pandemic began were three scientists working in that lab was highly suspicious.
"Now that we know their names, we find one of them was collecting what turned out to be the closest cousins of Sars-CoV-2 at the time, and another was doing the very experiments that could have created the virus. These revelations make it almost a slam dunk for the coronavirus lab-leak hypothesis."
I am available for personal apologies via DM, if that is emotionally impossible, you can buy me a bottle of decent Englush fizz. Thanks
Oh God, you've said this 6 trillion times. We get it. Enuff
To be fair to Leon, there are STILL some posters that airily say, “oh, it must have been the market because..”
I know, it's incredible. And I bet - as I have said - that some will STILL say this, or modified versions of it. "Oh we can never know, and most viruses are zoonotic", "we haven't really got hard evidence", all that shite
The fact is, the first three people to catch a genetically modified novel bat coronavirus were the three scientists genetically modifying a novel bat coronavirus: in the only lab in the world which was genetically modifying a novel bat coronavirus
In a courtroom, that would get a conviction. It is now beyond reasonable doubt. But there will still be unreasonable doubt, just you watch
Why did they try to stop people saying this all along?
1. Because Trump said it early on
2. Because America was implicated as well, via its funding of Daszak
3. Because it had scientists saying "don't admit this, we will be lynched and science will be destroyed"
Even if inflation falls Sunak can hardly bring out the bunting given to get there it would have driven many people to lose their homes .
On another note am I the only one fed up of the moralizing crap from people who seek to judge those who just wanted to own their own home . The situation was vastly different 20 years ago .
People took out mortgages and could never have envisaged the rapid change in interest rates over the space of just over a year.
There seems to be a lot of mean spiritedness about which I find appalling when some people are going to be sick with worry over what will happen to their mortgages .
Indeed. PB at its curtain-twitching worst.
Yuk.
It boils my piss.
If you are under the age of 45 the economy has handed you a shit sandwich and getting onto the housing ladder has been the only, narrow window for material advancement.
As usual, the boomers have no idea and merely pour scorn on those that follow. This, even as their last great idea, Brexit, is widely understood as an absolute disaster.
As someone in my early 30s I also find it increasingly annoying that we have not only been handed a shitty economy but that if any of us argue for a better one, or a better future in general, we often get called entitled or (as we have been discussing today) "elites".
It's weird that the sub 30s make up a small part of the population, and have only Bern economically active a short time, yet its their profligacy and entitlement which must be addressed to fix things.
Lord knows post Millennials have their annoyances but I think detective poirot can search for other suspects.
I am also similar age to the poster above, the Tories and their friends call me entitled and lazy despite the fact I have worked every day since I was 18 years old. Fuck off.
Hang on, I think I noticed yesterday it was that intellectual colossus called Malcolm who made some rant about how all young people are lazy. You said nothing, like so many people on here who are terrified of standing up to the loud mothed bully.
Ranters are best ignored unless one is on the mood for a knockabout. That would hurt them more than engaging.
Even if inflation falls Sunak can hardly bring out the bunting given to get there it would have driven many people to lose their homes .
On another note am I the only one fed up of the moralizing crap from people who seek to judge those who just wanted to own their own home . The situation was vastly different 20 years ago .
People took out mortgages and could never have envisaged the rapid change in interest rates over the space of just over a year.
There seems to be a lot of mean spiritedness about which I find appalling when some people are going to be sick with worry over what will happen to their mortgages .
Indeed. PB at its curtain-twitching worst.
Yuk.
It boils my piss.
If you are under the age of 45 the economy has handed you a shit sandwich and getting onto the housing ladder has been the only, narrow window for material advancement.
As usual, the boomers have no idea and merely pour scorn on those that follow. This, even as their last great idea, Brexit, is widely understood as an absolute disaster.
As someone in my early 30s I also find it increasingly annoying that we have not only been handed a shitty economy but that if any of us argue for a better one, or a better future in general, we often get called entitled or (as we have been discussing today) "elites".
It's weird that the sub 30s make up a small part of the population, and have only Bern economically active a short time, yet its their profligacy and entitlement which must be addressed to fix things.
Lord knows post Millennials have their annoyances but I think detective poirot can search for other suspects.
I am also similar age to the poster above, the Tories and their friends call me entitled and lazy despite the fact I have worked every day since I was 18 years old. Fuck off.
Hang on, I think I noticed yesterday it was that intellectual colossus called Malcolm who made some rant about how all young people are lazy. You said nothing, like so many people on here who are terrified of standing up to the loud mothed bully.
Add him to the list of people who attack my age group on this board.
Young people attacked = fine
Old people attacked = disgrace.
The level of hypocrisy on this board is astonishing.
Even if inflation falls Sunak can hardly bring out the bunting given to get there it would have driven many people to lose their homes .
On another note am I the only one fed up of the moralizing crap from people who seek to judge those who just wanted to own their own home . The situation was vastly different 20 years ago .
People took out mortgages and could never have envisaged the rapid change in interest rates over the space of just over a year.
There seems to be a lot of mean spiritedness about which I find appalling when some people are going to be sick with worry over what will happen to their mortgages .
What a pile of crap. People have had very cheap mortgages for over a decade paid for by millions getting nil returns on their savings. You would have to be seriously dim to expect that to last for ever. Likewise both COVID and Ukraine have given very loud and clear warnings that a big bill was coming down the road. The lack of personal responsibility has reached epidemic proportions. The market always kicks in at some point. Welcome to the real world.
Let me guess: you have lots of cash savings but no mortgage?
THIS is now confirmed by the Wall Street Journal AND the New York Times, all info released by officials of the Biden admin
"That a pandemic caused by a bat coronavirus started in the city with the world’s largest programme of research into bat coronaviruses was always intriguing. That among the first people to get ill with allegedly Covid-like symptoms in the month the pandemic began were three scientists working in that lab was highly suspicious.
"Now that we know their names, we find one of them was collecting what turned out to be the closest cousins of Sars-CoV-2 at the time, and another was doing the very experiments that could have created the virus. These revelations make it almost a slam dunk for the coronavirus lab-leak hypothesis."
I am available for personal apologies via DM, if that is emotionally impossible, you can buy me a bottle of decent English fizz. Thanks
It did seem very likely that this was one 'conspiracy theory' that might turn out to be true. Although I'm not convinced the sources here are any better than the UFO ones, so I'd like to see some confirmation from something other than a whispered conversation in a car park over a cigarette.
Assuming it is true, who will be paying the highest reparation? Russia or China?
Don't forget the American involvement. The NIH, via Antony Fauci, funded much of the GOF research at Wuhan. Fauci specifically offshored it to avoid the US ban on this dangerous virology
This is one reason that getting the (obvious) truth into the open has been so ludicrously hard. Neither the Chinese nor the Americans are keen on a real investigation
True.
Although perhaps the Chinese would have done this research anyway, and someone in the US decided they wanted to keep an eye on it.
Same goes for a lot of recent science that we might want to pause and think about. If someone somewhere in a legislation that doesn't care about ethics is going to do it anyway, what good is it going to do if we decide to stop?
Even if inflation falls Sunak can hardly bring out the bunting given to get there it would have driven many people to lose their homes .
On another note am I the only one fed up of the moralizing crap from people who seek to judge those who just wanted to own their own home . The situation was vastly different 20 years ago .
People took out mortgages and could never have envisaged the rapid change in interest rates over the space of just over a year.
There seems to be a lot of mean spiritedness about which I find appalling when some people are going to be sick with worry over what will happen to their mortgages .
Indeed. PB at its curtain-twitching worst.
Yuk.
It boils my piss.
If you are under the age of 45 the economy has handed you a shit sandwich and getting onto the housing ladder has been the only, narrow window for material advancement.
As usual, the boomers have no idea and merely pour scorn on those that follow. This, even as their last great idea, Brexit, is widely understood as an absolute disaster.
As someone in my early 30s I also find it increasingly annoying that we have not only been handed a shitty economy but that if any of us argue for a better one, or a better future in general, we often get called entitled or (as we have been discussing today) "elites".
It's weird that the sub 30s make up a small part of the population, and have only Bern economically active a short time, yet its their profligacy and entitlement which must be addressed to fix things.
Lord knows post Millennials have their annoyances but I think detective poirot can search for other suspects.
I am also similar age to the poster above, the Tories and their friends call me entitled and lazy despite the fact I have worked every day since I was 18 years old. Fuck off.
Hang on, I think I noticed yesterday it was that intellectual colossus called Malcolm who made some rant about how all young people are lazy. You said nothing, like so many people on here who are terrified of standing up to the loud mothed bully.
If it came from MalcolmG we probably ignored it as the whingeing of an old (I'm alright, Jock) man...
I said we should have let elderly people be protected during COVID and let us all go on about our lives. I received a strong and vocal response that I said I was being ageist and nasty.
Yet anyone can call young people feckless, lazy, stupid, woke and nobody bats an eyelid. No such such as being youngist!
The truth is, you oldies have fucked it for the young of this country. We are fed up and angry with you (not all of you but a lot of you).
THIS is now confirmed by the Wall Street Journal AND the New York Times, all released by officials of the Biden admin
"That a pandemic caused by a bat coronavirus started in the city with the world’s largest programme of research into bat coronaviruses was always intriguing. That among the first people to get ill with allegedly Covid-like symptoms in the month the pandemic began were three scientists working in that lab was highly suspicious.
"Now that we know their names, we find one of them was collecting what turned out to be the closest cousins of Sars-CoV-2 at the time, and another was doing the very experiments that could have created the virus. These revelations make it almost a slam dunk for the coronavirus lab-leak hypothesis."
I am available for personal apologies via DM, if that is emotionally impossible, you can buy me a bottle of decent Englush fizz. Thanks
Oh God, you've said this 6 trillion times. We get it. Enuff
To be fair to Leon, there are STILL some posters that airily say, “oh, it must have been the market because..”
I know, it's incredible. And I bet - as I have said - that some will STILL say this, or modified versions of it. "Oh we can never know, and most viruses are zoonotic", "we haven't really got hard evidence", all that shite
The fact is, the first three people to catch a genetically modified novel bat coronavirus were the three scientists genetically modifying a novel bat coronavirus: in the only lab in the world which was genetically modifying a novel bat coronavirus
In a courtroom, that would get a conviction. It is now beyond reasonable doubt. But there will still be unreasonable doubt, just you watch
Why did they try to stop people saying this all along?
1. Because Trump said it early on
2. Because America was implicated as well, via its funding of Daszak
3. Because it had scientists saying "don't admit this, we will be lynched and science will be destroyed"
I don't know if those are the precise reasons, but it did get lumped into 'this is a conspiracy theory' mode a bit quickly, when it was hardly on the level of 5G causes brain parasites or whatever Wera Hobhouse MP believes.
The 5% raise is just the latest kick in the teeth. I do not know how I am going to afford my mortgage when my fixed rate ends, I have no confidence the next lot will help me.
Aspire to own a home they said, I worked hard, got a better job, got a pay rise and I get fucked over. The elderly get a free ride.
The 5% raise is just the latest kick in the teeth. I do not know how I am going to afford my mortgage when my fixed rate ends, I have no confidence the next lot will help me.
Aspire to own a home they said, I worked hard, got a better job, got a pay rise and I get fucked over. The elderly get a free ride.
I should migrate. I really should.
*Waves from 3,500 miles away*
Come on over to the dark side. I’ll even buy you a beer.
I humbly apologise to everyone I've belittled when I have defended PoP. I liked, and still like the idea of, eating pineapple on pizza. But the moral case for legislation against is now overpowering. We can't keep funding Big Pineapple and its abusive practices.
To start with. My righteous and vindicated wrath might - MIGHT - be mollified with large sums of cash, in brown envelopes. Maybe. If you're lucky
You will have a long wait from me, at least.
You see, the problem is your certainty. You have the certainty of the ignorant bigot. You state something as being *certain* - especially if it's dramatic, even when there is considerable doubt. Then anyone saying, "Hang on, that's not certain yet", gets put down as being against you.
Your hypothesis is not certain yet. As I've been saying for some time, it's looking more likely. But certain? No.
I am ready for a fight. I genuinely hate the people who have been so protected whilst we get fucked.
Put our lives on hold. Fucked.
We should have all refused to lock down, it was a complete waste of time for us. The people protected will be dead soon, we've got years of this shit to come.
I am so, so angry. I have no confidence Labour will sort it out - but the priority is getting Little Rishi and his bunch of fucktards out.
The 5% raise is just the latest kick in the teeth. I do not know how I am going to afford my mortgage when my fixed rate ends, I have no confidence the next lot will help me.
Aspire to own a home they said, I worked hard, got a better job, got a pay rise and I get fucked over. The elderly get a free ride.
I should migrate. I really should.
*Waves from 3,500 miles away*
Come on over to the dark side. I’ll even buy you a beer.
I was wondering which lefty rent-a-gob would win the submarine award today.
Step forward Ash Sarkar.
'If the super-rich can spend £250,000 on vanity jaunts 2.4 miles beneath the ocean then they're not being taxed enough.'
I'm sorry, but when hubris meets nemesis then catharsis happens.
A load of rich people ignored a load of safety standards to go oggle a well known monument to hubris and catastrophe, and then disappear? If that were in a modern retelling of An Inspector Calls, that would be considered too on the nose, not subtle enough, a bit heavy handed.
The 5% raise is just the latest kick in the teeth. I do not know how I am going to afford my mortgage when my fixed rate ends, I have no confidence the next lot will help me.
Aspire to own a home they said, I worked hard, got a better job, got a pay rise and I get fucked over. The elderly get a free ride.
I should migrate. I really should.
The Federal Reserve has been even more aggressive with rate rises and house prices are falling in some of the previously hottest property markets in the US, so the grass isn't necessarily greener on the other side.
The 5% raise is just the latest kick in the teeth. I do not know how I am going to afford my mortgage when my fixed rate ends, I have no confidence the next lot will help me.
Aspire to own a home they said, I worked hard, got a better job, got a pay rise and I get fucked over. The elderly get a free ride.
I should migrate. I really should.
The Federal Reserve has been even more aggressive with rate rises and house prices are falling in some of the previously hottest property markets in the US, so the grass isn't necessarily greener on the other side.
THIS is now confirmed by the Wall Street Journal AND the New York Times, all released by officials of the Biden admin
"That a pandemic caused by a bat coronavirus started in the city with the world’s largest programme of research into bat coronaviruses was always intriguing. That among the first people to get ill with allegedly Covid-like symptoms in the month the pandemic began were three scientists working in that lab was highly suspicious.
"Now that we know their names, we find one of them was collecting what turned out to be the closest cousins of Sars-CoV-2 at the time, and another was doing the very experiments that could have created the virus. These revelations make it almost a slam dunk for the coronavirus lab-leak hypothesis."
I am available for personal apologies via DM, if that is emotionally impossible, you can buy me a bottle of decent Englush fizz. Thanks
Oh God, you've said this 6 trillion times. We get it. Enuff
To be fair to Leon, there are STILL some posters that airily say, “oh, it must have been the market because..”
I know, it's incredible. And I bet - as I have said - that some will STILL say this, or modified versions of it. "Oh we can never know, and most viruses are zoonotic", "we haven't really got hard evidence", all that shite
The fact is, the first three people to catch a genetically modified novel bat coronavirus were the three scientists genetically modifying a novel bat coronavirus: in the only lab in the world which was genetically modifying a novel bat coronavirus
In a courtroom, that would get a conviction. It is now beyond reasonable doubt. But there will still be unreasonable doubt, just you watch
Why did they try to stop people saying this all along?
1. Because Trump said it early on
2. Because America was implicated as well, via its funding of Daszak
3. Because it had scientists saying "don't admit this, we will be lynched and science will be destroyed"
Scientists generally work on evidence and facts. It may be a well justified criticism that they preferred the non-leak version possibly for vested interest, but in this case it was unproven either way. You and your political heroes, the likes of Trump and Johnson (also non-scientists) delight in anything that indulges yours and their penchant for hyperbole and mass panic. It was therefore not analysis that led you to the conclusion you have drawn but sheer journalistic love of controversy and guesswork because science is not exactly your strong suit.
'@GoodwinMJ · 17h The old elite projected their social status through their wealth, estates & titles. The new elite project their status & distinguish themselves from the masses by preaching radical woke progressivism'
I think the main difference between the old and the new elite is that the old elite was mostly honest, whereas the new elite is often dishonest. The old elite never pretended to be anything other than what it was. The new elite is often pretending to be other than what it actually is.
I'm not sure that's true, at least since the invention of newspapers. Who was the American billionaire at the turn of the 19th/20th centuries who had very good media management and cultivated an image of benefitor of the poor? I think it was Carnegie, but happy to be corrected.
Scots-American. Libraries all over Scotland, a Carnegie fund which is still working, etc. etc. Edit: all very muich self-help, wortk hard and you can be a rich bastard like me etc. (NB. Have not read his writings in detail to check how far he qualified that message.)
His idea of a holiday but and ben was Skibo Castle.
The Carnegie Birthplace is quite something, to be seen on a day out to Dunfermline besides the abbey and palace.
He was born in *one* of those two weaver's cottages. To which he added this commeorative extension ...
And he funded the Diplodocus dinosaur skeleton excavation, now in the museum at Pittsburgh, and the many plaster casts given to crowned heads (in preference) across the world.
Though not sure about his PR skills re such things as the Pittsburgh steel strike and armed putdown.
Yes I think that's the fella, thank you. "Look I am wonderful! I have built things for the poor, who love me. Huzzah for Carnegie!" whilst breaking striker's knees with baseball bats.
Even if inflation falls Sunak can hardly bring out the bunting given to get there it would have driven many people to lose their homes .
On another note am I the only one fed up of the moralizing crap from people who seek to judge those who just wanted to own their own home . The situation was vastly different 20 years ago .
People took out mortgages and could never have envisaged the rapid change in interest rates over the space of just over a year.
There seems to be a lot of mean spiritedness about which I find appalling when some people are going to be sick with worry over what will happen to their mortgages .
Indeed. PB at its curtain-twitching worst.
Yuk.
It boils my piss.
If you are under the age of 45 the economy has handed you a shit sandwich and getting onto the housing ladder has been the only, narrow window for material advancement.
As usual, the boomers have no idea and merely pour scorn on those that follow. This, even as their last great idea, Brexit, is widely understood as an absolute disaster.
As someone in my early 30s I also find it increasingly annoying that we have not only been handed a shitty economy but that if any of us argue for a better one, or a better future in general, we often get called entitled or (as we have been discussing today) "elites".
It's weird that the sub 30s make up a small part of the population, and have only Bern economically active a short time, yet its their profligacy and entitlement which must be addressed to fix things.
Lord knows post Millennials have their annoyances but I think detective poirot can search for other suspects.
I am also similar age to the poster above, the Tories and their friends call me entitled and lazy despite the fact I have worked every day since I was 18 years old. Fuck off.
Hang on, I think I noticed yesterday it was that intellectual colossus called Malcolm who made some rant about how all young people are lazy. You said nothing, like so many people on here who are terrified of standing up to the loud mothed bully.
If it came from MalcolmG we probably ignored it as the whingeing of an old (I'm alright, Jock) man...
The amusing thing was that he referred to young people as "whingers". It is rare to come across someone with so little self awareness and propensity for psychological projection.
Although the "cyclists need insurance" brigade do have a point. Liability insurance for cyclists is quite sensible.
Adult cyclists who cycle on pavements, which is unlawful, with a "get out of my way, pedestrian scum" attitude, being too wimpy and scared to ride on the roads, need bans slapped on them by magistrates. (It would only take a few Cambridge fellows to feel the long arm of the law for the others to feel "encouraged".)
Guidance from the Police Chief's Association accepts that adults cycling on pavements is OK, when the road is too dangerous, and it is done considerately - as in the vast majority of cases. Guidance was issued in 1999 by the Home Secretary when it became an "offence", and reaffirmed in 2014. The recent case of the manslaughter of the elderly cyclist demonstrates the need, until such time as we have safe facilities everywhere:
The "cyclists need insurance" brigade have no point whatsoever, except in their own sawdust-filled heads.
Lability insurance for people riding bikes usually comes for free with a home contents policy. Some of us have extra insurance via memberships or specialist policies. I have that because I know many motorist vehicle drivers will lie to the police and then lie to the court, and I will need ferocious lawyers should the worst happen, potentially for a civil claim.
These insurance companies include liability insurance in their Home Contents policies:
Apologies for introducing evidence to the debate.
Normally placid people go absolutely bonkers when it comes to cyclists. It's utterly barmy and baffling.
The worst cyclists on the streets of London are without doubt the Just Eat/Deliveroo ones. Most cyclists at least look left then right before going through red lights - the food delivery ones don't even do this.
And I'm the idiot who stops at all the red lights as I see 83% of other cyclists race through them past me.
The powered scooter Just Eats are even worse – appear from behind a tree/wheelie bin and cut up every road user in the postcode.
My niece only yesterday got knocked down by a food delivery company e-bike rider when crossing a pedestrian crossing in London (light was green for pedestrians). Didn't stop and went on their way. She is ok but got lots of brusing and cuts down her arm. Black cabby apparently jumped out his cab to shout and swear at the rider whilst several others stopped to help her.
Obviously no registration plate on the e-bike to track down. She is going to raise it with the well known food delivery company. There is a strong case for registration plates of some description for e-bikes and e-scooters in my view.
I was wondering which lefty rent-a-gob would win the submarine award today.
Step forward Ash Sarkar.
'If the super-rich can spend £250,000 on vanity jaunts 2.4 miles beneath the ocean then they're not being taxed enough.'
I'm sorry, but when hubris meets nemesis then catharsis happens.
A load of rich people ignored a load of safety standards to go oggle a well known monument to hubris and catastrophe, and then disappear? If that were in a modern retelling of An Inspector Calls, that would be considered too on the nose, not subtle enough, a bit heavy handed.
The people involved are still human beings, with families and friends.
It’s not surprising that some idiots don’t have an ounce of compassion in their bodies though, and instead decide to embody David Cameron’s famous remark about Twitter.
There are plenty of off-colour jokes that could be made about a tragedy. This isn’t one of them.
Even if inflation falls Sunak can hardly bring out the bunting given to get there it would have driven many people to lose their homes .
On another note am I the only one fed up of the moralizing crap from people who seek to judge those who just wanted to own their own home . The situation was vastly different 20 years ago .
People took out mortgages and could never have envisaged the rapid change in interest rates over the space of just over a year.
There seems to be a lot of mean spiritedness about which I find appalling when some people are going to be sick with worry over what will happen to their mortgages .
Indeed. PB at its curtain-twitching worst.
Yuk.
It boils my piss.
If you are under the age of 45 the economy has handed you a shit sandwich and getting onto the housing ladder has been the only, narrow window for material advancement.
As usual, the boomers have no idea and merely pour scorn on those that follow. This, even as their last great idea, Brexit, is widely understood as an absolute disaster.
As someone in my early 30s I also find it increasingly annoying that we have not only been handed a shitty economy but that if any of us argue for a better one, or a better future in general, we often get called entitled or (as we have been discussing today) "elites".
It's weird that the sub 30s make up a small part of the population, and have only Bern economically active a short time, yet its their profligacy and entitlement which must be addressed to fix things.
Lord knows post Millennials have their annoyances but I think detective poirot can search for other suspects.
I am also similar age to the poster above, the Tories and their friends call me entitled and lazy despite the fact I have worked every day since I was 18 years old. Fuck off.
Hang on, I think I noticed yesterday it was that intellectual colossus called Malcolm who made some rant about how all young people are lazy. You said nothing, like so many people on here who are terrified of standing up to the loud mothed bully.
If it came from MalcolmG we probably ignored it as the whingeing of an old (I'm alright, Jock) man...
The amusing thing was that he referred to young people as "whingers". It is rare to come across someone with so little self awareness and propensity for psychological projection.
Malcolm is a word which has got me banned twice. So I will call him a fucktard instead
I am ready for a fight. I genuinely hate the people who have been so protected whilst we get fucked.
Put our lives on hold. Fucked.
We should have all refused to lock down, it was a complete waste of time for us. The people protected will be dead soon, we've got years of this shit to come.
I am so, so angry. I have no confidence Labour will sort it out - but the priority is getting Little Rishi and his bunch of fucktards out.
I partly agree, and partly very much disagree. We could have an economic system that protects the elderly and the young. Instead a concerted effort by those in power to cater specifically to the elderly has rotted the brains of many a boomer. Yes, there is intergenerational warfare, but it is not the elderly who are to blame, rather the capitalist indoctrination they have been fed over decades. I would also argue that lock down was good, as a 32 year old who caught covid last year and is still feeling the negative effects of Long Covid, and imagining how much worse that would be personally if I wasn't vaxxed / got it pre-vax, and how much worse off everyone would be if that was repeated across the entire population.
Maybe I'm biased coz I love my grandparents dearly and they are both not quite boomers, having been children during WW2 rather than being born after it and are also pretty lefty themselves; my Great Nan having literally hosted Communist meetings in her council house kitchen in the post war era.
We should have resisted and gone about our lives. What a complete shower. Fuck Johnson, fuck Rishi and fuck the Tories. And fuck Labour too for good measure.
Even if inflation falls Sunak can hardly bring out the bunting given to get there it would have driven many people to lose their homes .
On another note am I the only one fed up of the moralizing crap from people who seek to judge those who just wanted to own their own home . The situation was vastly different 20 years ago .
People took out mortgages and could never have envisaged the rapid change in interest rates over the space of just over a year.
There seems to be a lot of mean spiritedness about which I find appalling when some people are going to be sick with worry over what will happen to their mortgages .
Indeed. PB at its curtain-twitching worst.
Yuk.
It boils my piss.
If you are under the age of 45 the economy has handed you a shit sandwich and getting onto the housing ladder has been the only, narrow window for material advancement.
As usual, the boomers have no idea and merely pour scorn on those that follow. This, even as their last great idea, Brexit, is widely understood as an absolute disaster.
As someone in my early 30s I also find it increasingly annoying that we have not only been handed a shitty economy but that if any of us argue for a better one, or a better future in general, we often get called entitled or (as we have been discussing today) "elites".
It's weird that the sub 30s make up a small part of the population, and have only Bern economically active a short time, yet its their profligacy and entitlement which must be addressed to fix things.
Lord knows post Millennials have their annoyances but I think detective poirot can search for other suspects.
I am also similar age to the poster above, the Tories and their friends call me entitled and lazy despite the fact I have worked every day since I was 18 years old. Fuck off.
Hang on, I think I noticed yesterday it was that intellectual colossus called Malcolm who made some rant about how all young people are lazy. You said nothing, like so many people on here who are terrified of standing up to the loud mothed bully.
If it came from MalcolmG we probably ignored it as the whingeing of an old (I'm alright, Jock) man...
The amusing thing was that he referred to young people as "whingers". It is rare to come across someone with so little self awareness and propensity for psychological projection.
Malcolm is a word which has got me banned twice. So I will call him a fucktard instead
I was wondering which lefty rent-a-gob would win the submarine award today.
Step forward Ash Sarkar.
'If the super-rich can spend £250,000 on vanity jaunts 2.4 miles beneath the ocean then they're not being taxed enough.'
I'm sorry, but when hubris meets nemesis then catharsis happens.
A load of rich people ignored a load of safety standards to go oggle a well known monument to hubris and catastrophe, and then disappear? If that were in a modern retelling of An Inspector Calls, that would be considered too on the nose, not subtle enough, a bit heavy handed.
Some of those on the boat were explorers, one had been to the edge of space and held the record for the longest duration at full ocean depth for a crewed vessel. Just because they knew the risks does not mean we should not mourn their potential passing, they were natural risk takers but then if humanity never took risks it would never explore or find new things.
Economic migrants also take risks crossing the seas and channel when it would be safer on that score to stay in their home county doesn't mean we don't also mourn their loss if their boats sink and they drown
I am ready for a fight. I genuinely hate the people who have been so protected whilst we get fucked.
Put our lives on hold. Fucked.
We should have all refused to lock down, it was a complete waste of time for us. The people protected will be dead soon, we've got years of this shit to come.
I am so, so angry. I have no confidence Labour will sort it out - but the priority is getting Little Rishi and his bunch of fucktards out.
I partly agree, and partly very much disagree. We could have an economic system that protects the elderly and the young. Instead a concerted effort by those in power to cater specifically to the elderly has rotted the brains of many a boomer. Yes, there is intergenerational warfare, but it is not the elderly who are to blame, rather the capitalist indoctrination they have been fed over decades. I would also argue that lock down was good, as a 32 year old who caught covid last year and is still feeling the negative effects of Long Covid, and imagining how much worse that would be personally if I wasn't vaxxed / got it pre-vax, and how much worse off everyone would be if that was repeated across the entire population.
Maybe I'm biased coz I love my grandparents dearly and they are both not quite boomers, having been children during WW2 rather than being born after it and are also pretty lefty themselves; my Great Nan having literally hosted Communist meetings in her council house kitchen in the post war era.
I didn't say all elderly people, I said some. The ones who call me lazy and feckless for a start, fuck them.
I believe me putting my life on hold was a waste of time and I bitterly regret doing it out of kindness. I really do at this point with some of the shit these people say to me.
Even if inflation falls Sunak can hardly bring out the bunting given to get there it would have driven many people to lose their homes .
On another note am I the only one fed up of the moralizing crap from people who seek to judge those who just wanted to own their own home . The situation was vastly different 20 years ago .
People took out mortgages and could never have envisaged the rapid change in interest rates over the space of just over a year.
There seems to be a lot of mean spiritedness about which I find appalling when some people are going to be sick with worry over what will happen to their mortgages .
Indeed. PB at its curtain-twitching worst.
Yuk.
It boils my piss.
If you are under the age of 45 the economy has handed you a shit sandwich and getting onto the housing ladder has been the only, narrow window for material advancement.
As usual, the boomers have no idea and merely pour scorn on those that follow. This, even as their last great idea, Brexit, is widely understood as an absolute disaster.
As someone in my early 30s I also find it increasingly annoying that we have not only been handed a shitty economy but that if any of us argue for a better one, or a better future in general, we often get called entitled or (as we have been discussing today) "elites".
It's weird that the sub 30s make up a small part of the population, and have only Bern economically active a short time, yet its their profligacy and entitlement which must be addressed to fix things.
Lord knows post Millennials have their annoyances but I think detective poirot can search for other suspects.
I am also similar age to the poster above, the Tories and their friends call me entitled and lazy despite the fact I have worked every day since I was 18 years old. Fuck off.
Hang on, I think I noticed yesterday it was that intellectual colossus called Malcolm who made some rant about how all young people are lazy. You said nothing, like so many people on here who are terrified of standing up to the loud mothed bully.
If it came from MalcolmG we probably ignored it as the whingeing of an old (I'm alright, Jock) man...
The amusing thing was that he referred to young people as "whingers". It is rare to come across someone with so little self awareness and propensity for psychological projection.
I don't know what anyone on the site looks like, but I have my own mental images. In Malcolm's case, it's Father Jack from Father Ted, but with a Scottish accent.
I am ready for a fight. I genuinely hate the people who have been so protected whilst we get fucked.
Put our lives on hold. Fucked.
We should have all refused to lock down, it was a complete waste of time for us. The people protected will be dead soon, we've got years of this shit to come.
I am so, so angry. I have no confidence Labour will sort it out - but the priority is getting Little Rishi and his bunch of fucktards out.
Proportional representation is the best hope for shaking up British politics. I'm hoping it happens, even though it'll give lots of seats to parties I don't agree with like the Greens.
The current teenage scribbler for the Times, James Marriott is a little perturbed by what he calls "Centrist Populism"- i.e. the gathering wrath of moderates towards Brexit and all other works of Torydom.
I think I can explain the gathering disaster for the Conservatives in very simple terms.
The educated middle class have had more than a decade of being told that experts don´t matter (they are trying to do it again today, seeking to transfer the blame for the UK´s economic woes towards the Bank of England, rather than their own policy incompetence).
There has been decades of utter bullshit, absurd power stance policies which do not even begin to scratch the surface of under investment and misallocation of capital across the whole economy for decades.
Then there is the more than 40 years of the playground shit show of internal Tory party politics, which culminated in the travesty of "Prime Minister" Boris Johnson, but covered so much else in childish personality clashes The mass expulsion of adults, from the Conservatives by Johnson was the last chance for the Tories.
The patient people of Britain are waiting for the fat lady to sing, and she is clearing her throat.
The Tories are going to face a whole new world of pain at the next election, but more to the point I think we are going to see a long overdue period of radical change. The country in 10 years will have changed in ways- economic, political, social and constitutional- that I do not see the Tories being able to survive.
This is not just about the 2024/5 election, it will be epochal.
Good.
In 5 years we could have a high tax, even higher inflation and higher interest rates deeply unpopular Labour government plagued with even more frequent strikes and with a big deficit and rising unemployment. The idea Labour will win the next general election and be in power for all time is complacency of the first degree from you and other left liberals
I believe that Cicero is a former Tory voter ?
Complacency is the belief that the Tory party is now anything more than a parody of what once could claim to be the natural party of government.
It is complacency for any party to say they are 'the natural party of government' in a democracy, the Tories have suffered heavy defeats before in 1997, 2001. 1966, 1945, 1906, 1880 and against Palmerston on many occasions and always come back.
Not this time.
Even if Labour screw it up, which they probably will, the Conservatives deserve evisceration. The continuing criminal investigations and yet further revelations of abject unfitness for office will keep reminding people that the crisis was Torydom´s last act.
Against all expert views, you got your ridiculous Brexit, now I hope its your political epitaph.
Eviscerate the Tories and it will be a Faragite party that replaces them and when the Right get into power it will be a really nasty Nationalist government from your perspective that will make this government look like LDs
You say that as if that would just be the natural outcome or it would happen in a vacuum. Like it's just a consequence of a law of physics rather than a concerted political effort that people choose to make.
This is why socialists argue "socialism or barbarism". The right and centre (and capital) are much more willing to make peace with the far right than they are to give up an inch and move slightly further left. Corbyn had many faults, but his policy positions were not that radical in the grand scheme of history. They are radical now, but that's because the base line of acceptable policy is anything to the left of Thatcher / Blair on the economy is literal Communism. The outrage at the idea that maybe having functional broadband infrastructure for a modern economy as "Broadband Communism" when it was just... infrastructure spending to boost productivity and economic growth, something the New Deal would have done if it were implemented today. I know New Dealism was, at the time, considered a Communist plot by some of the most frothing at the brain right wingers, but what it did was create the broad base working and middle class of a functioning capitalist society by allowing the rich to still get very rich, but making sure that wealth was redistributed to smooth out too much profit seeking and labour discipline. It saved capitalism from itself - boom and bust cycles, monopolies and Robber Barons. That we are closer to the Gilded age then we are the post-war consensus is telling.
No we aren't. We have an NHS, unemployment benefits even non contributory via UC, a minimum wage, 40% going to university.
We didn't have any of the above in the 1920s, indeed the Poor Law wasn't repealed and Workhouses weren't formally abolished until 1948
The level of hypocrisy on this board is astonishing.
It peaked when you called someone else an attention seeker yesterday
Je Suis Horse
Why don't you engage in the conversation whilst going off on a tangent?
Can nobody here get satire seriously? I was obviously taking the piss out of Leon going off on his tangents, Jesus Christ didn't realise I needed to label the joke.
It seems like we are now going to pay the price for not having a proper reset post-2008. That was when we should have turned away from running the economy on perpetual house price inflation but instead we doubled-down.
Rishi Sunak will get the blame, but from a Tory perspective it was Cameron's coalition government that really blew the chance to sort out the economy.
I am ready for a fight. I genuinely hate the people who have been so protected whilst we get fucked.
Put our lives on hold. Fucked.
We should have all refused to lock down, it was a complete waste of time for us. The people protected will be dead soon, we've got years of this shit to come.
I am so, so angry. I have no confidence Labour will sort it out - but the priority is getting Little Rishi and his bunch of fucktards out.
Proportional representation is the best hope for shaking up British politics. I'm hoping it happens, even though it'll give lots of seats to parties I don't agree with like the Greens.
My 88 year old father was a keen remainer. He’s largely a rentier this stage, although for reasons he has a small mortgage still.
I think he is in the pre-boomer generation which saw closer integration with the EU as good both in terms of greater freedom and as a response to the War.
Even if inflation falls Sunak can hardly bring out the bunting given to get there it would have driven many people to lose their homes .
On another note am I the only one fed up of the moralizing crap from people who seek to judge those who just wanted to own their own home . The situation was vastly different 20 years ago .
People took out mortgages and could never have envisaged the rapid change in interest rates over the space of just over a year.
There seems to be a lot of mean spiritedness about which I find appalling when some people are going to be sick with worry over what will happen to their mortgages .
Indeed. PB at its curtain-twitching worst.
Yuk.
It boils my piss.
If you are under the age of 45 the economy has handed you a shit sandwich and getting onto the housing ladder has been the only, narrow window for material advancement.
As usual, the boomers have no idea and merely pour scorn on those that follow. This, even as their last great idea, Brexit, is widely understood as an absolute disaster.
As someone in my early 30s I also find it increasingly annoying that we have not only been handed a shitty economy but that if any of us argue for a better one, or a better future in general, we often get called entitled or (as we have been discussing today) "elites".
It's weird that the sub 30s make up a small part of the population, and have only Bern economically active a short time, yet its their profligacy and entitlement which must be addressed to fix things.
Lord knows post Millennials have their annoyances but I think detective poirot can search for other suspects.
I am also similar age to the poster above, the Tories and their friends call me entitled and lazy despite the fact I have worked every day since I was 18 years old. Fuck off.
Hang on, I think I noticed yesterday it was that intellectual colossus called Malcolm who made some rant about how all young people are lazy. You said nothing, like so many people on here who are terrified of standing up to the loud mothed bully.
If it came from MalcolmG we probably ignored it as the whingeing of an old (I'm alright, Jock) man...
The amusing thing was that he referred to young people as "whingers". It is rare to come across someone with so little self awareness and propensity for psychological projection.
I don't know what anyone on the site looks like, but I have my own mental images. In Malcolm's case, it's Father Jack from Father Ted, but with a Scottish accent.
It seems like we are now going to pay the price for not having a proper reset post-2008. That was when we should have turned away from running the economy on perpetual house price inflation but instead we doubled-down.
Rishi Sunak will get the blame, but from a Tory perspective it was Cameron's coalition government that really blew the chance to sort out the economy.
I am ready for a fight. I genuinely hate the people who have been so protected whilst we get fucked.
Put our lives on hold. Fucked.
We should have all refused to lock down, it was a complete waste of time for us. The people protected will be dead soon, we've got years of this shit to come.
I am so, so angry. I have no confidence Labour will sort it out - but the priority is getting Little Rishi and his bunch of fucktards out.
Labour rarely sorts anything out.
But joking aside, the younger generation do have legitimate complaint, though in my experience it is a little simplistic to make demographic divisions. There are plenty of entitled oldies and entitled youngers. There are plenty of whinging oldies and whinging youngsters. There are also those that work bloody hard, don't blame others and become a success in life however that looks, because they seize the day and look for the bright spots rather than the dark.
There are plenty of reasons why we (particularly those in UK) should all be very grateful for the times we live in, despite Brexit, incoming Labour governments, Putin etc. Let us be grateful we were not born in Mariupol.
I was wondering which lefty rent-a-gob would win the submarine award today.
Step forward Ash Sarkar.
'If the super-rich can spend £250,000 on vanity jaunts 2.4 miles beneath the ocean then they're not being taxed enough.'
I'm sorry, but when hubris meets nemesis then catharsis happens.
A load of rich people ignored a load of safety standards to go oggle a well known monument to hubris and catastrophe, and then disappear? If that were in a modern retelling of An Inspector Calls, that would be considered too on the nose, not subtle enough, a bit heavy handed.
The people involved are still human beings, with families and friends.
It’s not surprising that some idiots don’t have an ounce of compassion in their bodies though, and instead decide to embody David Cameron’s famous remark about Twitter.
There are plenty of off-colour jokes that could be made about a tragedy. This isn’t one of them.
All about context aint it? I do recall some PBers revelling in the no doubt frequently unpleasant deaths of Russian conscripts being fed into the mincing machine. I imagine most of them had families and friends.
I am ready for a fight. I genuinely hate the people who have been so protected whilst we get fucked.
Put our lives on hold. Fucked.
We should have all refused to lock down, it was a complete waste of time for us. The people protected will be dead soon, we've got years of this shit to come.
I am so, so angry. I have no confidence Labour will sort it out - but the priority is getting Little Rishi and his bunch of fucktards out.
Labour rarely sorts anything out.
But joking aside, the younger generation do have legitimate complaint, though in my experience it is a little simplistic to make demographic divisions. There are plenty of entitled oldies and entitled youngers. There are plenty of whinging oldies and whinging youngsters. There are also those that work bloody hard, don't blame others and become a success in life however that looks, because they seize the day and look for the bright spots rather than the dark.
There are plenty of reasons why we (particularly those in UK) should all be very grateful for the times we live in, despite Brexit, incoming Labour governments, Putin etc. Let us be grateful we were not born in Mariupol.
You make a good point but I was addressing the overwhelming feeling we get from the media and so on who amplify it. I recall the week we spent discussing avocado on toast.
I am not saying all elderly people are bad - but a large minority give the rest a bad name. And for them I am afraid I regret putting my life on hold.
I am ready for a fight. I genuinely hate the people who have been so protected whilst we get fucked.
Put our lives on hold. Fucked.
We should have all refused to lock down, it was a complete waste of time for us. The people protected will be dead soon, we've got years of this shit to come.
I am so, so angry. I have no confidence Labour will sort it out - but the priority is getting Little Rishi and his bunch of fucktards out.
Re: your mortgage affordability I have great sympathy but without meaning to pry I shall pry and ask whether you are interest only or repayment?
I've only ever had a interest-only mortgage and consequently have very low monthly costs with large tolerance for rates increasing - and I reduce capital in chunks on an ad hoc basis. I'm wondering whether people with repayment mortgages realise this is an option with lenders (there may need to be some equity in the property). The other thing to consider is extending the term.
How about some sympathy for what we are going through. Anyone?
I have my own view of the c-words on here. Doesn’t include Malcom.
I am sure I am high on the list of c words on this board for some - but at this point I frankly don't care. Would rather be myself and fight the corner of young people that get so bitterly attacked here every day from a select few.
Although the "cyclists need insurance" brigade do have a point. Liability insurance for cyclists is quite sensible.
Adult cyclists who cycle on pavements, which is unlawful, with a "get out of my way, pedestrian scum" attitude, being too wimpy and scared to ride on the roads, need bans slapped on them by magistrates. (It would only take a few Cambridge fellows to feel the long arm of the law for the others to feel "encouraged".)
Guidance from the Police Chief's Association accepts that adults cycling on pavements is OK, when the road is too dangerous, and it is done considerately - as in the vast majority of cases. Guidance was issued in 1999 by the Home Secretary when it became an "offence", and reaffirmed in 2014. The recent case of the manslaughter of the elderly cyclist demonstrates the need, until such time as we have safe facilities everywhere:
The "cyclists need insurance" brigade have no point whatsoever, except in their own sawdust-filled heads.
Lability insurance for people riding bikes usually comes for free with a home contents policy. Some of us have extra insurance via memberships or specialist policies. I have that because I know many motorist vehicle drivers will lie to the police and then lie to the court, and I will need ferocious lawyers should the worst happen, potentially for a civil claim.
These insurance companies include liability insurance in their Home Contents policies:
Apologies for introducing evidence to the debate.
Normally placid people go absolutely bonkers when it comes to cyclists. It's utterly barmy and baffling.
As someone who walks, cycles and drives, I'd put it like this: cycling on pavements is okay *at times*. Forcing pedestrians on pavements to make way for you *is not okay*, especially if you are going it at speed.
And this happens a lot. It is all about consideration for others: cyclists want (reasonably) to be treated with respect by other road users. They should also consider other road - and pavement - users. This seems a strange concept to some of the cycling lobby, for whom the main demand appears to be for *them* to get as quickly from A to B as they can, and sod anyone else.
Yep. Agreed (as cyclist, driver and pedestrian).
Basic rule - look after the person slower/more vulnerable than you and be patient. If you're a driver, that means cyclists, pedestrians, horses etc. If you're a cyclist it means pedestrians. Hell, if you're a pedestrian it means getting out of the way of the doddery old lady with the stick coming towards you.
Even if inflation falls Sunak can hardly bring out the bunting given to get there it would have driven many people to lose their homes .
On another note am I the only one fed up of the moralizing crap from people who seek to judge those who just wanted to own their own home . The situation was vastly different 20 years ago .
People took out mortgages and could never have envisaged the rapid change in interest rates over the space of just over a year.
There seems to be a lot of mean spiritedness about which I find appalling when some people are going to be sick with worry over what will happen to their mortgages .
What a pile of crap. People have had very cheap mortgages for over a decade paid for by millions getting nil returns on their savings. You would have to be seriously dim to expect that to last for ever. Likewise both COVID and Ukraine have given very loud and clear warnings that a big bill was coming down the road. The lack of personal responsibility has reached epidemic proportions. The market always kicks in at some point. Welcome to the real world.
Let me guess: you have lots of cash savings but no mortgage?
I think the big mistake has been not raising rates gradually, from about 2013 or so. I think that would have cooled the housing market, without running the risk of having people repossessed, when mortgage rates spike.
I know from personal experience, from thirty years ago, just how worrying this is.
Even if inflation falls Sunak can hardly bring out the bunting given to get there it would have driven many people to lose their homes .
On another note am I the only one fed up of the moralizing crap from people who seek to judge those who just wanted to own their own home . The situation was vastly different 20 years ago .
People took out mortgages and could never have envisaged the rapid change in interest rates over the space of just over a year.
There seems to be a lot of mean spiritedness about which I find appalling when some people are going to be sick with worry over what will happen to their mortgages .
Indeed. PB at its curtain-twitching worst.
Yuk.
It boils my piss.
If you are under the age of 45 the economy has handed you a shit sandwich and getting onto the housing ladder has been the only, narrow window for material advancement.
As usual, the boomers have no idea and merely pour scorn on those that follow. This, even as their last great idea, Brexit, is widely understood as an absolute disaster.
As someone in my early 30s I also find it increasingly annoying that we have not only been handed a shitty economy but that if any of us argue for a better one, or a better future in general, we often get called entitled or (as we have been discussing today) "elites".
It's weird that the sub 30s make up a small part of the population, and have only Bern economically active a short time, yet its their profligacy and entitlement which must be addressed to fix things.
Lord knows post Millennials have their annoyances but I think detective poirot can search for other suspects.
I am also similar age to the poster above, the Tories and their friends call me entitled and lazy despite the fact I have worked every day since I was 18 years old. Fuck off.
Hang on, I think I noticed yesterday it was that intellectual colossus called Malcolm who made some rant about how all young people are lazy. You said nothing, like so many people on here who are terrified of standing up to the loud mothed bully.
If it came from MalcolmG we probably ignored it as the whingeing of an old (I'm alright, Jock) man...
The amusing thing was that he referred to young people as "whingers". It is rare to come across someone with so little self awareness and propensity for psychological projection.
I don't know what anyone on the site looks like, but I have my own mental images. In Malcolm's case, it's Father Jack from Father Ted, but with a Scottish accent.
Yes but Father Jack was actually funny. Malcolm is a bore.
The level of hypocrisy on this board is astonishing.
It peaked when you called someone else an attention seeker yesterday
Je Suis Horse
Why don't you engage in the conversation whilst going off on a tangent?
Can nobody here get satire seriously? I was obviously taking the piss out of Leon going off on his tangents, Jesus Christ didn't realise I needed to label the joke.
I think everyone on here takes your jokes seriously..
I was wondering which lefty rent-a-gob would win the submarine award today.
Step forward Ash Sarkar.
'If the super-rich can spend £250,000 on vanity jaunts 2.4 miles beneath the ocean then they're not being taxed enough.'
I'm sorry, but when hubris meets nemesis then catharsis happens.
A load of rich people ignored a load of safety standards to go oggle a well known monument to hubris and catastrophe, and then disappear? If that were in a modern retelling of An Inspector Calls, that would be considered too on the nose, not subtle enough, a bit heavy handed.
The people involved are still human beings, with families and friends.
It’s not surprising that some idiots don’t have an ounce of compassion in their bodies though, and instead decide to embody David Cameron’s famous remark about Twitter.
There are plenty of off-colour jokes that could be made about a tragedy. This isn’t one of them.
Even if inflation falls Sunak can hardly bring out the bunting given to get there it would have driven many people to lose their homes .
On another note am I the only one fed up of the moralizing crap from people who seek to judge those who just wanted to own their own home . The situation was vastly different 20 years ago .
People took out mortgages and could never have envisaged the rapid change in interest rates over the space of just over a year.
There seems to be a lot of mean spiritedness about which I find appalling when some people are going to be sick with worry over what will happen to their mortgages .
Indeed. PB at its curtain-twitching worst.
Yuk.
It boils my piss.
If you are under the age of 45 the economy has handed you a shit sandwich and getting onto the housing ladder has been the only, narrow window for material advancement.
As usual, the boomers have no idea and merely pour scorn on those that follow. This, even as their last great idea, Brexit, is widely understood as an absolute disaster.
As someone in my early 30s I also find it increasingly annoying that we have not only been handed a shitty economy but that if any of us argue for a better one, or a better future in general, we often get called entitled or (as we have been discussing today) "elites".
It's weird that the sub 30s make up a small part of the population, and have only Bern economically active a short time, yet its their profligacy and entitlement which must be addressed to fix things.
Lord knows post Millennials have their annoyances but I think detective poirot can search for other suspects.
I am also similar age to the poster above, the Tories and their friends call me entitled and lazy despite the fact I have worked every day since I was 18 years old. Fuck off.
Different lives. My parents (now in their late 70's and early 80's) grew up in an era before easy credit, but at a time when buying a house was possible, and only one parent needed to work, so mum stayed at home until us kids were at school. We only holidayed in England, but we did get away. Life was generally simpler. If you wanted stuff you had to save up, but generally there was a lot less stuff to buy.
Nowadays its really hard to get on the housing ladder (we were lucky and were gifted a deposit and both have good salaries, and don't want to live in London or indeed Bath), uni, where 50 % of kids are strongly pushed to, costs lots of money that is borrowed, and credit is easy to obtain. The culture of buy now, pay later is embedded and so people are not used to delayed gratification. The mountain of saving required to get that deposit is not easy, and just 'not having that latte' isn't the answer.
That said, despite the struggles for the youngsters today, there are compensations. Modern life is great, for the most part, for most people. I don't think many would seriously want to be sent back in time to the 1960's, when my parents were becoming adults.
The level of hypocrisy on this board is astonishing.
It peaked when you called someone else an attention seeker yesterday
Je Suis Horse
Why don't you engage in the conversation whilst going off on a tangent?
Can nobody here get satire seriously? I was obviously taking the piss out of Leon going off on his tangents, Jesus Christ didn't realise I needed to label the joke.
I think everyone on here takes your jokes seriously..
Well they shouldn't. My sense of humour in general is sarcasm. So please be aware of that, since my mental health has improved over the last year I've been able to withstand mostly everything thrown at me as I used to be able to.
Sorry you didn't get the joke - but it was intended ass one.
Even if inflation falls Sunak can hardly bring out the bunting given to get there it would have driven many people to lose their homes .
On another note am I the only one fed up of the moralizing crap from people who seek to judge those who just wanted to own their own home . The situation was vastly different 20 years ago .
People took out mortgages and could never have envisaged the rapid change in interest rates over the space of just over a year.
There seems to be a lot of mean spiritedness about which I find appalling when some people are going to be sick with worry over what will happen to their mortgages .
What a pile of crap. People have had very cheap mortgages for over a decade paid for by millions getting nil returns on their savings. You would have to be seriously dim to expect that to last for ever. Likewise both COVID and Ukraine have given very loud and clear warnings that a big bill was coming down the road. The lack of personal responsibility has reached epidemic proportions. The market always kicks in at some point. Welcome to the real world.
Let me guess: you have lots of cash savings but no mortgage?
I think the big mistake has been not raising rates gradually, from about 2013 or so. I think that would have cooled the housing market, without running the risk of having people repossessed, when mortgage rates spike.
I know from personal experience, from thirty years ago, just how worrying this is.
Yep, it's not rocket science. At the latest, rates should have started to go up as oil prices tumbled in autumn 2014.
I was wondering which lefty rent-a-gob would win the submarine award today.
Step forward Ash Sarkar.
'If the super-rich can spend £250,000 on vanity jaunts 2.4 miles beneath the ocean then they're not being taxed enough.'
I'm sorry, but when hubris meets nemesis then catharsis happens.
A load of rich people ignored a load of safety standards to go oggle a well known monument to hubris and catastrophe, and then disappear? If that were in a modern retelling of An Inspector Calls, that would be considered too on the nose, not subtle enough, a bit heavy handed.
The people involved are still human beings, with families and friends.
It’s not surprising that some idiots don’t have an ounce of compassion in their bodies though, and instead decide to embody David Cameron’s famous remark about Twitter.
There are plenty of off-colour jokes that could be made about a tragedy. This isn’t one of them.
Of course they are human beings; hubris is something that can only happen to humans.
People die every day, sometimes tragically. 500 migrants die in a boat of the coast of Greece and some people in this country look at that as good, and want to see more of that happen in the Channel.
Orca posting, not caring about this submarine, people celebrating when bad people die happens because lots of people recognise that lots of really rich people aren't happy that they have immense wealth, but that we have to treat them like royalty as well. To which I say bollocks. Most people cannot dream of quarter of a million pounds. Of course seeing people spending that when you can barely pay rent or feed your kids or enjoy life will lead to some of these reactions.
We should have resisted and gone about our lives. What a complete shower. Fuck Johnson, fuck Rishi and fuck the Tories. And fuck Labour too for good measure.
Labour was the main cheerleader, of course.
Interesting to see some influential minds are changing:
We should have resisted and gone about our lives. What a complete shower. Fuck Johnson, fuck Rishi and fuck the Tories. And fuck Labour too for good measure.
Labour was the main cheerleader, of course.
Interesting to see some influential minds are changing:
I said we should have let elderly people be protected during COVID and let us all go on about our lives. I received a strong and vocal response that I said I was being ageist and nasty.
Yet anyone can call young people feckless, lazy, stupid, woke and nobody bats an eyelid. No such such as being youngist!
The truth is, you oldies have fucked it for the young of this country. We are fed up and angry with you (not all of you but a lot of you).
I think this idea is nonsense. Many many younger people died of covid in the first year. It was not just a threat to the over 70's. And if we had done as you now suggest (after your Damascene conversion on lockdowns) the hospitals would have been overwhelmed with covid patients when you presented with something else and didn't get treated.
Success of lockdowns has led, as predicted, to people saying they weren't needed.
The 5% raise is just the latest kick in the teeth. I do not know how I am going to afford my mortgage when my fixed rate ends, I have no confidence the next lot will help me.
Aspire to own a home they said, I worked hard, got a better job, got a pay rise and I get fucked over. The elderly get a free ride.
The 5% raise is just the latest kick in the teeth. I do not know how I am going to afford my mortgage when my fixed rate ends, I have no confidence the next lot will help me.
Aspire to own a home they said, I worked hard, got a better job, got a pay rise and I get fucked over. The elderly get a free ride.
I should migrate. I really should.
How long have you got till that particular kick in the teeth day ?
The 5% raise is just the latest kick in the teeth. I do not know how I am going to afford my mortgage when my fixed rate ends, I have no confidence the next lot will help me.
Aspire to own a home they said, I worked hard, got a better job, got a pay rise and I get fucked over. The elderly get a free ride.
I should migrate. I really should.
Why don’t you then ?
If I was young I would.
Because I can't afford to. Right now the jobs market is in a bad place and moving now would be a big risk for me.
I said we should have let elderly people be protected during COVID and let us all go on about our lives. I received a strong and vocal response that I said I was being ageist and nasty.
Yet anyone can call young people feckless, lazy, stupid, woke and nobody bats an eyelid. No such such as being youngist!
The truth is, you oldies have fucked it for the young of this country. We are fed up and angry with you (not all of you but a lot of you).
I think this idea is nonsense. Many many younger people died of covid in the first year. It was not just a threat to the over 70's. And if we had done as you now suggest (after your Damascene conversion on lockdowns) the hospitals would have been overwhelmed with covid patients when you presented with something else and didn't get treated.
Success of lockdowns has led, as predicted, to people saying they weren't needed.
Lockdown was successful at saving lives, I never disagreed with that. I cheerlead for them after all.
They were pointless because the impact on the country has been worse than if we'd not bothered. If you are under 45 honestly what has been the upside?
The 5% raise is just the latest kick in the teeth. I do not know how I am going to afford my mortgage when my fixed rate ends, I have no confidence the next lot will help me.
Aspire to own a home they said, I worked hard, got a better job, got a pay rise and I get fucked over. The elderly get a free ride.
I should migrate. I really should.
Why don’t you then ?
If I was young I would.
Jeez, so would I. Trouble is later in life with family and elderly parents and network of friends it's nowhere near as doable.
The 5% raise is just the latest kick in the teeth. I do not know how I am going to afford my mortgage when my fixed rate ends, I have no confidence the next lot will help me.
Aspire to own a home they said, I worked hard, got a better job, got a pay rise and I get fucked over. The elderly get a free ride.
I should migrate. I really should.
How long have you got till that particular kick in the teeth day ?
A while yet - but I have absolutely no confidence this issue is going to be resolved.
I said we should have let elderly people be protected during COVID and let us all go on about our lives. I received a strong and vocal response that I said I was being ageist and nasty.
Yet anyone can call young people feckless, lazy, stupid, woke and nobody bats an eyelid. No such such as being youngist!
The truth is, you oldies have fucked it for the young of this country. We are fed up and angry with you (not all of you but a lot of you).
I think this idea is nonsense. Many many younger people died of covid in the first year. It was not just a threat to the over 70's. And if we had done as you now suggest (after your Damascene conversion on lockdowns) the hospitals would have been overwhelmed with covid patients when you presented with something else and didn't get treated.
Success of lockdowns has led, as predicted, to people saying they weren't needed.
That's a bit head I win, tails you lose, logic by you there though.
You can claim they were needed because they worked, but where's the evidence for that?
Sweden did better than us in preserving liberty and they didn't exactly all die in Sweden as a result now, did they?
I was wondering which lefty rent-a-gob would win the submarine award today.
Step forward Ash Sarkar.
'If the super-rich can spend £250,000 on vanity jaunts 2.4 miles beneath the ocean then they're not being taxed enough.'
I'm sorry, but when hubris meets nemesis then catharsis happens.
A load of rich people ignored a load of safety standards to go oggle a well known monument to hubris and catastrophe, and then disappear? If that were in a modern retelling of An Inspector Calls, that would be considered too on the nose, not subtle enough, a bit heavy handed.
The people involved are still human beings, with families and friends.
It’s not surprising that some idiots don’t have an ounce of compassion in their bodies though, and instead decide to embody David Cameron’s famous remark about Twitter.
There are plenty of off-colour jokes that could be made about a tragedy. This isn’t one of them.
The man could not look more out of touch if he tried. Jesus Christ.
Rishi: "It's ok, we're going to get through this" Worker: "That's good to hear, prime minister. What is being done to ensure that we do get through this, because I'm still a bit worried about—" Rishi: "No, sorry, you misunderstood. We're" [gestures towards Akshata Murthy] "going to get through this. You? You're fucked."
I am ready for a fight. I genuinely hate the people who have been so protected whilst we get fucked.
Put our lives on hold. Fucked.
We should have all refused to lock down, it was a complete waste of time for us. The people protected will be dead soon, we've got years of this shit to come.
I am so, so angry. I have no confidence Labour will sort it out - but the priority is getting Little Rishi and his bunch of fucktards out.
Labour rarely sorts anything out.
But joking aside, the younger generation do have legitimate complaint, though in my experience it is a little simplistic to make demographic divisions. There are plenty of entitled oldies and entitled youngers. There are plenty of whinging oldies and whinging youngsters. There are also those that work bloody hard, don't blame others and become a success in life however that looks, because they seize the day and look for the bright spots rather than the dark.
There are plenty of reasons why we (particularly those in UK) should all be very grateful for the times we live in, despite Brexit, incoming Labour governments, Putin etc. Let us be grateful we were not born in Mariupol.
You make a good point but I was addressing the overwhelming feeling we get from the media and so on who amplify it. I recall the week we spent discussing avocado on toast.
I am not saying all elderly people are bad - but a large minority give the rest a bad name. And for them I am afraid I regret putting my life on hold.
It wasn't just older people that were killed by Covid. Yes they were disproportionately effected. The lockdowns were not designed to save the elderly, they were designed to save our healthcare system. Funnily enough, the one system in Europe that is closest to our mad NHS system had no lockdown at all (Sweden). It will be interesting to reflect on which government got it right.
Lockdown was pretty shit. But if you want to focus on the bright side by contrasting with the darkest, imagine what it must be like for those people in Ukraine at the moment, or even the parents of Russian soldiers. They really have had a lot to complain about.
I am ready for a fight. I genuinely hate the people who have been so protected whilst we get fucked.
Put our lives on hold. Fucked.
We should have all refused to lock down, it was a complete waste of time for us. The people protected will be dead soon, we've got years of this shit to come.
I am so, so angry. I have no confidence Labour will sort it out - but the priority is getting Little Rishi and his bunch of fucktards out.
I partly agree, and partly very much disagree. We could have an economic system that protects the elderly and the young. Instead a concerted effort by those in power to cater specifically to the elderly has rotted the brains of many a boomer. Yes, there is intergenerational warfare, but it is not the elderly who are to blame, rather the capitalist indoctrination they have been fed over decades. I would also argue that lock down was good, as a 32 year old who caught covid last year and is still feeling the negative effects of Long Covid, and imagining how much worse that would be personally if I wasn't vaxxed / got it pre-vax, and how much worse off everyone would be if that was repeated across the entire population.
Maybe I'm biased coz I love my grandparents dearly and they are both not quite boomers, having been children during WW2 rather than being born after it and are also pretty lefty themselves; my Great Nan having literally hosted Communist meetings in her council house kitchen in the post war era.
I didn't say all elderly people, I said some. The ones who call me lazy and feckless for a start, fuck them.
I believe me putting my life on hold was a waste of time and I bitterly regret doing it out of kindness. I really do at this point with some of the shit these people say to me.
Good response though.
I get it - I had the whole "I'm turning 30 and want to find a partner and get my life together and celebrate with friends" thing collapse, my 30th in lockdown, 2 years not seeing family except on screen, it was awful - but I do think at the end of the day it was probably the right course of action for the health of most people, especially the most vulnerable. It isn't helped by the attitude of many people here, I agree, but this isn't a reddit page - it's a political betting one; a subset of people interested in politics who are also nominally interested in betting on it - so a group that trends towards older with disposable income to lose on bets.
They aren't everyone, and that sacrifice you made out of empathy for your fellow person is important. I'm glad the brain rot of "everyone is an island" and "there is no such thing as society, only the individual and the family unit" is less so in our generation. We can build something new. Unfortunately it does seem like it will have to be out of the ashes of the old, even if it would be preferable to not have to have everything burn down around us.
THIS is now confirmed by the Wall Street Journal AND the New York Times, all info released by officials of the Biden admin
"That a pandemic caused by a bat coronavirus started in the city with the world’s largest programme of research into bat coronaviruses was always intriguing. That among the first people to get ill with allegedly Covid-like symptoms in the month the pandemic began were three scientists working in that lab was highly suspicious.
"Now that we know their names, we find one of them was collecting what turned out to be the closest cousins of Sars-CoV-2 at the time, and another was doing the very experiments that could have created the virus. These revelations make it almost a slam dunk for the coronavirus lab-leak hypothesis."
The man could not look more out of touch if he tried. Jesus Christ.
Rishi: "It's ok, we're going to get through this" Worker: "That's good to hear, prime minister. What is being done to ensure that we do get through this, because I'm still a bit worried about—" Rishi: "No, sorry, you misunderstood. We're" [gestures towards Akshata Murthy] "going to get through this. You? You're fucked."
Even if inflation falls Sunak can hardly bring out the bunting given to get there it would have driven many people to lose their homes .
On another note am I the only one fed up of the moralizing crap from people who seek to judge those who just wanted to own their own home . The situation was vastly different 20 years ago .
People took out mortgages and could never have envisaged the rapid change in interest rates over the space of just over a year.
There seems to be a lot of mean spiritedness about which I find appalling when some people are going to be sick with worry over what will happen to their mortgages .
Indeed. PB at its curtain-twitching worst.
Yuk.
It boils my piss.
If you are under the age of 45 the economy has handed you a shit sandwich and getting onto the housing ladder has been the only, narrow window for material advancement.
As usual, the boomers have no idea and merely pour scorn on those that follow. This, even as their last great idea, Brexit, is widely understood as an absolute disaster.
As someone in my early 30s I also find it increasingly annoying that we have not only been handed a shitty economy but that if any of us argue for a better one, or a better future in general, we often get called entitled or (as we have been discussing today) "elites".
It's weird that the sub 30s make up a small part of the population, and have only Bern economically active a short time, yet its their profligacy and entitlement which must be addressed to fix things.
Lord knows post Millennials have their annoyances but I think detective poirot can search for other suspects.
I am also similar age to the poster above, the Tories and their friends call me entitled and lazy despite the fact I have worked every day since I was 18 years old. Fuck off.
Different lives. My parents (now in their late 70's and early 80's) grew up in an era before easy credit, but at a time when buying a house was possible, and only one parent needed to work, so mum stayed at home until us kids were at school. We only holidayed in England, but we did get away. Life was generally simpler. If you wanted stuff you had to save up, but generally there was a lot less stuff to buy.
Nowadays its really hard to get on the housing ladder (we were lucky and were gifted a deposit and both have good salaries, and don't want to live in London or indeed Bath), uni, where 50 % of kids are strongly pushed to, costs lots of money that is borrowed, and credit is easy to obtain. The culture of buy now, pay later is embedded and so people are not used to delayed gratification. The mountain of saving required to get that deposit is not easy,
To start with. My righteous and vindicated wrath might - MIGHT - be mollified with large sums of cash, in brown envelopes. Maybe. If you're lucky
Apologies for what? For saying that natural sources of pandemics are by far the most likely explanation? As indeed they are?
...
Dear old Tommy Bayes went right by you, didn't he?
Are all likelihoods in your view invariant over time?
I am open to this being a lab leak. Lots of evidence has accrued over time that points that way. I change my views when evidence changes. A bit like on the old quiz show, which I believe is a good example of Bayesian statistics.
Didn't you used to post as someone else rather acerbic?
I am ready for a fight. I genuinely hate the people who have been so protected whilst we get fucked.
Put our lives on hold. Fucked.
We should have all refused to lock down, it was a complete waste of time for us. The people protected will be dead soon, we've got years of this shit to come.
I am so, so angry. I have no confidence Labour will sort it out - but the priority is getting Little Rishi and his bunch of fucktards out.
Labour rarely sorts anything out.
But joking aside, the younger generation do have legitimate complaint, though in my experience it is a little simplistic to make demographic divisions. There are plenty of entitled oldies and entitled youngers. There are plenty of whinging oldies and whinging youngsters. There are also those that work bloody hard, don't blame others and become a success in life however that looks, because they seize the day and look for the bright spots rather than the dark.
There are plenty of reasons why we (particularly those in UK) should all be very grateful for the times we live in, despite Brexit, incoming Labour governments, Putin etc. Let us be grateful we were not born in Mariupol.
You make a good point but I was addressing the overwhelming feeling we get from the media and so on who amplify it. I recall the week we spent discussing avocado on toast.
I am not saying all elderly people are bad - but a large minority give the rest a bad name. And for them I am afraid I regret putting my life on hold.
It wasn't just older people that were killed by Covid. Yes they were disproportionately effected. The lockdowns were not designed to save the elderly, they were designed to save our healthcare system. Funnily enough, the one system in Europe that is closest to our mad NHS system had no lockdown at all (Sweden). It will be interesting to reflect on which government got it right.
Lockdown was pretty shit. But if you want to focus on the bright side by contrasting with the darkest, imagine what it must be like for those people in Ukraine at the moment, or even the parents of Russian soldiers. They really have had a lot to complain about.
It's not just lockdown, it is the aftermath. Young people had their lives put on hold because it was the right thing to do yet we are basically now fending for ourselves.
Rishi says he wants to help, has literally anything he's done been aimed at anyone under the age of 90?
Comments
See those double red lines? It means "you're allowed to stop and unload, but you have to put your hazards on and shrug apologetically as the number 23 edges through the tiny gap".
I mean, the economy would probably collapse if you didn't get that case of Volvic into that newsagent at precisely 8:40 on a Monday morning. You fucking hero.
2. Because America was implicated as well, via its funding of Daszak
3. Because it had scientists saying "don't admit this, we will be lynched and science will be destroyed"
It's getting rather boring.
Has there been definitive evidence this is not so? If that is the case (I haven't been following) then I am happy to confess I called it wrong
Young people attacked = fine
Old people attacked = disgrace.
The level of hypocrisy on this board is astonishing.
Malcomg is a twat for what it is worth.
Although perhaps the Chinese would have done this research anyway, and someone in the US decided they wanted to keep an eye on it.
Same goes for a lot of recent science that we might want to pause and think about. If someone somewhere in a legislation that doesn't care about ethics is going to do it anyway, what good is it going to do if we decide to stop?
Yet anyone can call young people feckless, lazy, stupid, woke and nobody bats an eyelid. No such such as being youngist!
The truth is, you oldies have fucked it for the young of this country. We are fed up and angry with you (not all of you but a lot of you).
Step forward Ash Sarkar.
'If the super-rich can spend £250,000 on vanity jaunts 2.4 miles beneath the ocean then they're not being taxed enough.'
Aspire to own a home they said, I worked hard, got a better job, got a pay rise and I get fucked over. The elderly get a free ride.
I should migrate. I really should.
Come on over to the dark side. I’ll even buy you a beer.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/21/guards-at-del-monte-pineapple-farm-accused-of-killings-in-kenya
I humbly apologise to everyone I've belittled when I have defended PoP. I liked, and still like the idea of, eating pineapple on pizza. But the moral case for legislation against is now overpowering. We can't keep funding Big Pineapple and its abusive practices.
You see, the problem is your certainty. You have the certainty of the ignorant bigot. You state something as being *certain* - especially if it's dramatic, even when there is considerable doubt. Then anyone saying, "Hang on, that's not certain yet", gets put down as being against you.
Your hypothesis is not certain yet. As I've been saying for some time, it's looking more likely. But certain? No.
Put our lives on hold. Fucked.
We should have all refused to lock down, it was a complete waste of time for us. The people protected will be dead soon, we've got years of this shit to come.
I am so, so angry. I have no confidence Labour will sort it out - but the priority is getting Little Rishi and his bunch of fucktards out.
A load of rich people ignored a load of safety standards to go oggle a well known monument to hubris and catastrophe, and then disappear? If that were in a modern retelling of An Inspector Calls, that would be considered too on the nose, not subtle enough, a bit heavy handed.
Time for an amusing Alisdair Beckett-King: Every Evil Emperor
Obviously no registration plate on the e-bike to track down. She is going to raise it with the well known food delivery company. There is a strong case for registration plates of some description for e-bikes and e-scooters in my view.
It’s not surprising that some idiots don’t have an ounce of compassion in their bodies though, and instead decide to embody David Cameron’s famous remark about Twitter.
There are plenty of off-colour jokes that could be made about a tragedy. This isn’t one of them.
Maybe I'm biased coz I love my grandparents dearly and they are both not quite boomers, having been children during WW2 rather than being born after it and are also pretty lefty themselves; my Great Nan having literally hosted Communist meetings in her council house kitchen in the post war era.
We should have resisted and gone about our lives. What a complete shower. Fuck Johnson, fuck Rishi and fuck the Tories. And fuck Labour too for good measure.
Can I double or quits on UAP NOT being revealed to be actual alien space-craft, zooming round and crashing with alarming regularity?
Economic migrants also take risks crossing the seas and channel when it would be safer on that score to stay in their home county doesn't mean we don't also mourn their loss if their boats sink and they drown
I believe me putting my life on hold was a waste of time and I bitterly regret doing it out of kindness. I really do at this point with some of the shit these people say to me.
Good response though.
We didn't have any of the above in the 1920s, indeed the Poor Law wasn't repealed and Workhouses weren't formally abolished until 1948
Can nobody here get satire seriously? I was obviously taking the piss out of Leon going off on his tangents, Jesus Christ didn't realise I needed to label the joke.
Rishi Sunak will get the blame, but from a Tory perspective it was Cameron's coalition government that really blew the chance to sort out the economy.
He’s largely a rentier this stage, although for reasons he has a small mortgage still.
I think he is in the pre-boomer generation which saw closer integration with the EU as good both in terms of greater freedom and as a response to the War.
But joking aside, the younger generation do have legitimate complaint, though in my experience it is a little simplistic to make demographic divisions. There are plenty of entitled oldies and entitled youngers. There are plenty of whinging oldies and whinging youngsters. There are also those that work bloody hard, don't blame others and become a success in life however that looks, because they seize the day and look for the bright spots rather than the dark.
There are plenty of reasons why we (particularly those in UK) should all be very grateful for the times we live in, despite Brexit, incoming Labour governments, Putin etc. Let us be grateful we were not born in Mariupol.
I do recall some PBers revelling in the no doubt frequently unpleasant deaths of Russian conscripts being fed into the mincing machine. I imagine most of them had families and friends.
Doesn’t include Malcom.
I am not saying all elderly people are bad - but a large minority give the rest a bad name. And for them I am afraid I regret putting my life on hold.
I've only ever had a interest-only mortgage and consequently have very low monthly costs with large tolerance for rates increasing - and I reduce capital in chunks on an ad hoc basis. I'm wondering whether people with repayment mortgages realise this is an option with lenders (there may need to be some equity in the property). The other thing to consider is extending the term.
Basic rule - look after the person slower/more vulnerable than you and be patient. If you're a driver, that means cyclists, pedestrians, horses etc. If you're a cyclist it means pedestrians. Hell, if you're a pedestrian it means getting out of the way of the doddery old lady with the stick coming towards you.
I know from personal experience, from thirty years ago, just how worrying this is.
Nowadays its really hard to get on the housing ladder (we were lucky and were gifted a deposit and both have good salaries, and don't want to live in London or indeed Bath), uni, where 50 % of kids are strongly pushed to, costs lots of money that is borrowed, and credit is easy to obtain. The culture of buy now, pay later is embedded and so people are not used to delayed gratification. The mountain of saving required to get that deposit is not easy, and just 'not having that latte' isn't the answer.
That said, despite the struggles for the youngsters today, there are compensations. Modern life is great, for the most part, for most people. I don't think many would seriously want to be sent back in time to the 1960's, when my parents were becoming adults.
Sorry you didn't get the joke - but it was intended ass one.
People die every day, sometimes tragically. 500 migrants die in a boat of the coast of Greece and some people in this country look at that as good, and want to see more of that happen in the Channel.
Orca posting, not caring about this submarine, people celebrating when bad people die happens because lots of people recognise that lots of really rich people aren't happy that they have immense wealth, but that we have to treat them like royalty as well. To which I say bollocks. Most people cannot dream of quarter of a million pounds. Of course seeing people spending that when you can barely pay rent or feed your kids or enjoy life will lead to some of these reactions.
Interesting to see some influential minds are changing:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/20/lockdown-damaged-a-generation-sally-davies-inquiry-covid/
The man could not look more out of touch if he tried. Jesus Christ.
Success of lockdowns has led, as predicted, to people saying they weren't needed.
If I was young I would.
Are all likelihoods in your view invariant over time?
They were pointless because the impact on the country has been worse than if we'd not bothered. If you are under 45 honestly what has been the upside?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65988094
You can claim they were needed because they worked, but where's the evidence for that?
Sweden did better than us in preserving liberty and they didn't exactly all die in Sweden as a result now, did they?
https://twitter.com/JonnyGabriel/status/1671827237224562689
Worker: "That's good to hear, prime minister. What is being done to ensure that we do get through this, because I'm still a bit worried about—"
Rishi: "No, sorry, you misunderstood. We're" [gestures towards Akshata Murthy] "going to get through this. You? You're fucked."
PM Rishi Sunak tells business leaders in Kent he's "a different kind of politician" and wants to "change things"
https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1671879687407276032
Goodness me. What a travesty of a speech.
Lockdown was pretty shit. But if you want to focus on the bright side by contrasting with the darkest, imagine what it must be like for those people in Ukraine at the moment, or even the parents of Russian soldiers. They really have had a lot to complain about.
They aren't everyone, and that sacrifice you made out of empathy for your fellow person is important. I'm glad the brain rot of "everyone is an island" and "there is no such thing as society, only the individual and the family unit" is less so in our generation. We can build something new. Unfortunately it does seem like it will have to be out of the ashes of the old, even if it would be preferable to not have to have everything burn down around us.
Nowadays its really hard to get on the housing ladder (we were lucky and were gifted a deposit and both have good salaries, and don't want to live in London or indeed Bath), uni, where 50 % of kids are strongly pushed to, costs lots of money that is borrowed, and credit is easy to obtain. The culture of buy now, pay later is embedded and so people are not used to delayed gratification. The mountain of saving required to get that deposit is not easy, I am open to this being a lab leak. Lots of evidence has accrued over time that points that way. I change my views when evidence changes. A bit like on the old quiz show, which I believe is a good example of Bayesian statistics.
Didn't you used to post as someone else rather acerbic?
Rishi says he wants to help, has literally anything he's done been aimed at anyone under the age of 90?