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Was Sunak’s no show in the vote a mistake? – politicalbetting.com

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  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Pulpstar said:

    Stuart Broad must be going for a record number of no balls here.

    I hope not.
    https://www.espncricinfo.com/records/most-no-balls-in-an-innings-282939
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,426
    Pulpstar said:

    Stuart Broad must be going for a record number of no balls here.

    It’s disgraceful that a Test Match bowler of his experience should concede so many!
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,319

    Ugh.

    Prince Michael of Kent’s private office lobbied a senior Foreign Office official to help obtain a fast-track UK visa for a Russian financier closely linked to a sanctioned oligarch, The Times can reveal.

    The equerry of the prince, the late Queen’s cousin, emailed a diplomat in Moscow asking him if he could “expedite” an application by Maxim Viktorov, a 50-year-old businessman. Viktorov was able to get on a flight to London arriving six days later.

    At the time of the intervention in 2018, the prince was the global ambassador and part owner of a UK finance firm that was in the process of securing £100,000 of investment from an organisation run by Viktorov.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/prince-michael-of-kent-sanctioned-russian-oligarch-boris-rotenberg-adviser-uk-visa-k8trndv5s

    Royals are as bent as the Tories if not more. A greedier bunch of grifters could not be found.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,126
    Pulpstar said:

    Mortimer said:

    Barnesian said:

    Mortimer said:

    That interview with Mr Sunak yesterday was toe-curling. How can anyone think he would get through an intensive General Election campaign? Who is advising him?

    The irony of Mr Seely going on TV to defend the line and being caught lieing about what he himself said on the same programme a week before is remarkable.

    So who comes out of this looking good? Penny Mordaunt - a woman who was rejected for leader due to 'culture war' issues. My oh my. With friends like the culture warriors what political party needs enemies!

    Meanwhile, outside the Westminster/PB bubble, an update from my local association:

    Disappointment that our MP voted with Labour. Donors and activists angry and deflated. Calls for Sunak to be replaced.

    Your continued reminder that whilst Sunak is popular here, and 'supported' by people who wouldn't dream of voting for him, the only time we've had a proper, working majority for the Tory party since PB began is when Boris Johnson went to the country in 2019.

    Yougov polling was clear yesterday: 2019 Tory voters prefer Boris.

    That is how unpopular Sunak is....



    The Tory party have a problem with their members, just as the Labour party had under Corbyn. They are cuckoos in the nest.

    Starmer was able to kick them out or at least neutralise them. Which leader of the Conservatives can do the same? Sunak seems too weak to do it. My money is on Mordaunt. But will the current Tory members allow her to be leader to cleanse them?
    LOL. Given the members select the MPs, I suspect there is more chance of the PCP changing than the membership.

    Those who gave Labour a big victory yesterday will be facing angry executives soon. There will almost certainly be some MPs looking for jobs elsewhere I should imagine.
    The committee was majority Tory, led by brexiteer Sir Bernard Jenkin. & I'm fairly sure the line (Which is true) is that the average person doesn't really care about this, so quite how it's a 'big victory for Labour' I'm not sure. Was the Ferrier suspension a 'big victory' for the union ?
    Voting with the opposition doesn't go down well in Tory associations, generally...

    It was seen as vindictive by many Tory members.

    But this is all besides the point.

    Polling shows that Tory 2019 voters prefer Johnson to Sunak. In the LEs we did worse than CCHQ's expectation management.

    They both shows to me how unelectable he is.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,822

    Looking increasingly likely AUS may not get there by 80 overs which could give ENG a chance with second new ball. If AUS have established batters then, then this won't help ENG but it could do if they are say 7 or 8 down with new batters.

    Am I a dinosaur for preferring 'batsman' to 'batter'? Batter is a flour mixture.
    Perfectly normal to prefer some words to others, especially those more familiar with which will sound more natural. It gets a bit weird when taken too far and some start to resent and object to recent changes in language. Language evolves, changes and develops, always has, always will.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,908
    Muesli said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Westie said:

    Taz said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    That list in full (since 1979)

    Thatcher
    Blair
    Major
    Cameron
    May
    Brown
    Sunak
    Johnson
    Truss

    You are very kind to Cameron, who I think is the PM whose stock has fallen the most since leaving office.
    My list would be

    Blair (despite Iraq)
    Thatcher
    Major
    Brown
    May
    Sunak
    Cameron
    Johnson
    Truss
    Fun game.

    My list would be.

    Thatcher
    Cameron
    Major
    Johnson
    Blair
    Sunak
    May
    Truss
    Brown

    And yes, I wanted Johnson out before he left and would not want him back, but I'd say the same to everyone I ranked below him too.
    Truss above Brown for what reason? Colour of rosette?
    No, not colour of rosette, I put Blair ahead of Sunak, May and Truss.

    Truss ahead of Brown as she was removed before she did too much damage. She was bad, I called for her to resign before she did, but she was quickly ousted before much worse happened.

    Her Premiership was like stepping on a piece of Lego. Short and painful but quickly over.

    The legacy of Gordon Brown was far more toxic and far more long-lasting. It needed a decade of austerity to clean up his mess.
    But the toxic legacy of Gordon Brown was more due to his time as Chancellor than that of his time as PM.

    It is judging of them as PM not overall.
    Indeed, it is hard to separate the two, which is why I rated Blair down in only 5th spot, he's down-rated due to Brown's legacy as Chancellor. Had it not been for Brown as Chancellor I'd have Blair up higher.

    But Brown made matters even worse as PM. He completely botched the financial crisis by bailing out the failed banks, rather than allowing them to go bust and protecting guaranteed creditors instead like Iceland did.

    That added much more debt than was necessary to an already bad problem and completely warped the market by suggesting that firms were too big to fail and making moral hazard a major problem.
    Don't forget Brown is a war criminal who should be in the dock at the Hague alongside Blair.

    As for Cameron, in his farewell speech to the Commons he focused on the introduction of gay marriage as a major achievement of his seven years in office. He only looks good compared with the four incompetents who succeeded him. And insofar as he was on the right side of the argument about EU membership.
    Anyone who suggests either Blair or Brown is a war criminal is outing themselves as ridiculous.

    And yes, Cameron deserves massive praise for introduction of equal marriage rights. 👍
    He said it was the achievement he was most proud of. And I'll resist the obvious comment of 'from a short list' because it was an achievement and he's right to feel that way.
    Particularly against the majority of his MPs; nowadays the PM is running scared of a minority of his.
    'Dave' masked it for a while but the Tory Party seem to be uncomfortable with the modern world again. Not sure about Sunak at all. I find it hard to get a read on what he's all about. When he took over I was a bit worried he might be very good but no, he decidedly isn't. Phew.
    Yes, but sorry to break it to you, but podgy Kier will be worse. Unlike Sunak, he knows fuck all about business and he has failed (unlike Blair) to make up for that massive deficit by surrounding himself with people that do. I hope I am wrong, but I expect to see the economy improve a little on the optimism of a change of government but then for it to tank under the mismanagement of people that have even less understanding of how an economy and business works that Peppa Pig Boy and Lizzy Lightweight combined.
    In that case, let me put you out of your misery: you are wrong.

    The Shadow Chancellor worked as an economist for the Bank of England, the UK embassy in Washington DC and Halifax Bank of Scotland before entering the Commons. She also chaired the Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy Committee from 2017 to 2020. These are not the hallmarks of a wide-eyed ingenue that “knows fuck all about business”, are they?

    Wind your bloody neck in, for Pete’s sake.
    Good heavens facts! Are you sure you've come to the right place?

    (Welcome. Nice change)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    @Richard_Tyndall

    I'm thinking of writing a little primer on the oil & gas industry: porosity, permeability, water injection, artificial lift, hydraulic fracturing, etc.

    Would you care to help me on it?
  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,779
    rcs1000 said:

    @Richard_Tyndall

    I'm thinking of writing a little primer on the oil & gas industry: porosity, permeability, water injection, artificial lift, hydraulic fracturing, etc.

    Would you care to help me on it?

    I'd certainly be interested in reading it.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,860
    edited June 2023
    Mortimer said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Mortimer said:

    Barnesian said:

    Mortimer said:

    That interview with Mr Sunak yesterday was toe-curling. How can anyone think he would get through an intensive General Election campaign? Who is advising him?

    The irony of Mr Seely going on TV to defend the line and being caught lieing about what he himself said on the same programme a week before is remarkable.

    So who comes out of this looking good? Penny Mordaunt - a woman who was rejected for leader due to 'culture war' issues. My oh my. With friends like the culture warriors what political party needs enemies!

    Meanwhile, outside the Westminster/PB bubble, an update from my local association:

    Disappointment that our MP voted with Labour. Donors and activists angry and deflated. Calls for Sunak to be replaced.

    Your continued reminder that whilst Sunak is popular here, and 'supported' by people who wouldn't dream of voting for him, the only time we've had a proper, working majority for the Tory party since PB began is when Boris Johnson went to the country in 2019.

    Yougov polling was clear yesterday: 2019 Tory voters prefer Boris.

    That is how unpopular Sunak is....



    The Tory party have a problem with their members, just as the Labour party had under Corbyn. They are cuckoos in the nest.

    Starmer was able to kick them out or at least neutralise them. Which leader of the Conservatives can do the same? Sunak seems too weak to do it. My money is on Mordaunt. But will the current Tory members allow her to be leader to cleanse them?
    LOL. Given the members select the MPs, I suspect there is more chance of the PCP changing than the membership.

    Those who gave Labour a big victory yesterday will be facing angry executives soon. There will almost certainly be some MPs looking for jobs elsewhere I should imagine.
    The committee was majority Tory, led by brexiteer Sir Bernard Jenkin. & I'm fairly sure the line (Which is true) is that the average person doesn't really care about this, so quite how it's a 'big victory for Labour' I'm not sure. Was the Ferrier suspension a 'big victory' for the union ?
    Voting with the opposition doesn't go down well in Tory associations, generally...

    It was seen as vindictive by many Tory members.

    But this is all besides the point.

    Polling shows that Tory 2019 voters prefer Johnson to Sunak. In the LEs we did worse than CCHQ's expectation management.

    They both shows to me how unelectable he is.
    No Tory is electable right now.

    The only possible path to redemption is for Sunak to renounce everything that has happened these years past - or be replaced by someone like Mordaunt more able to to the same - and then be seen to hug as many huskies as possible hoping voters will forget the shitshow we’ve all been subjected to since 2015. And hoping that Starmer’s ‘boring accountant’ impression doesn’t cut the mustard with voters who are seriously worried in serious times.

    It’s a long shot, but nevertheless the only game in town.

    One of Sunak’s significant handicaps is that he probably does believe in Brexit, despite most of his so-called friends thinking that he doesn’t.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,993

    CatMan said:

    2:15 start time for the cricket

    If it hadn't been for Gordon Brown's recklessness, I reckon they'd have been able to start earlier.
    They thought he had abolished bat and bowl
    He'd modelled himself as the Iron Wicketkeeper but fumbled too many opportunities to catch the problems in the economy.
    Silly Point
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    rcs1000 said:

    @Richard_Tyndall

    I'm thinking of writing a little primer on the oil & gas industry: porosity, permeability, water injection, artificial lift, hydraulic fracturing, etc.

    Would you care to help me on it?

    Of course, it'd probably end up being more like five or six different pieces, because it's a big industry!
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,664

    Looking increasingly likely AUS may not get there by 80 overs which could give ENG a chance with second new ball. If AUS have established batters then, then this won't help ENG but it could do if they are say 7 or 8 down with new batters.

    Am I a dinosaur for preferring 'batsman' to 'batter'? Batter is a flour mixture.
    Perfectly normal to prefer some words to others, especially those more familiar with which will sound more natural. It gets a bit weird when taken too far and some start to resent and object to recent changes in language. Language evolves, changes and develops, always has, always will.
    We don't have "chair-er" though. It just seems a bit odd.

    Anyway, the Australians seem to be very quiet bat-people at the moment. Are they playing for a draw?

    Edit: OUT!
  • SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 694
    Yeah!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    Off with their Head!
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,779

    FF43 said:

    Sean_F said:

    FF43 said:

    Sean_F said:

    FF43 said:

    glw said:

    So apart from catastrophically bad financial regulation, an unchecked housing boom and bust, and a huge amount of poor value PFI to make UK government debt look better Gordon Brown was a pretty good Chancellor and later PM eh?

    You Brown fans are as nuts as the Tories defending Boris yesterday evening.

    You think Brown was boomier and buster in housing than Thatcher?

    Also Brown didn't introduce additional risk with his financial services regulation. He failed to address the systemic risk he inherited from his predecessors due to inadequate regulation.
    Undoubtedly. House prices rose 206% between 1997 and 2007.
    They also nearly doubled between 1982 and 1989 and then fell back much harder than 2007
    I'm talking about tripling, not doubling.
    Ah OK. Difference between nominal and real house prices.

    Point I'm making is not that Brown got this stuff right. It's that he did the same as everyone else, but for some reason people pick him out as uniquely catastrophic.
    What he did was uniquely catastrophic. Well apart from all Labour government's running out of money, that's not unique.

    Can you name any other government that oversaw house prices going from a 3x income multiple to a 7x income multiple in a few years?

    Can you name any other government that saw a budget surplus turned into a budget deficit of 3% in a few years before rather than after the next recession hits?
    The Blair and Brown governments didn't get everything right but despite facing the worst global financial crisis since WW2 they presided over lower and more stable inflation than we've seen before or since, combined with much lower unemployment than under Thatcher and Major and stronger economic growth than under the current Tory administration. Combine with real improvements in public services, real progress on poverty reduction and a historic peace deal in Northern Ireland and you can see why most fair minded observers would view it as a relatively successful period for the UK.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,385
    Khawaja still there. As long as he is, Aus remain favourites.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    FF43 said:

    Sean_F said:

    FF43 said:

    Sean_F said:

    FF43 said:

    glw said:

    So apart from catastrophically bad financial regulation, an unchecked housing boom and bust, and a huge amount of poor value PFI to make UK government debt look better Gordon Brown was a pretty good Chancellor and later PM eh?

    You Brown fans are as nuts as the Tories defending Boris yesterday evening.

    You think Brown was boomier and buster in housing than Thatcher?

    Also Brown didn't introduce additional risk with his financial services regulation. He failed to address the systemic risk he inherited from his predecessors due to inadequate regulation.
    Undoubtedly. House prices rose 206% between 1997 and 2007.
    They also nearly doubled between 1982 and 1989 and then fell back much harder than 2007
    I'm talking about tripling, not doubling.
    Ah OK. Difference between nominal and real house prices.

    Point I'm making is not that Brown got this stuff right. It's that he did the same as everyone else, but for some reason people pick him out as uniquely catastrophic.
    What he did was uniquely catastrophic. Well apart from all Labour government's running out of money, that's not unique.

    Can you name any other government that oversaw house prices going from a 3x income multiple to a 7x income multiple in a few years?

    Can you name any other government that saw a budget surplus turned into a budget deficit of 3% in a few years before rather than after the next recession hits?
    The Blair and Brown governments didn't get everything right but despite facing the worst global financial crisis since WW2 they presided over lower and more stable inflation than we've seen before or since, combined with much lower unemployment than under Thatcher and Major and stronger economic growth than under the current Tory administration. Combine with real improvements in public services, real progress on poverty reduction and a historic peace deal in Northern Ireland and you can see why most fair minded observers would view it as a relatively successful period for the UK.
    I may have it wrong, but wasn’t the GFC in 2008, so not even Blair’s watch, and just two years of Brown left? The impacts of 2008 have rippled down the years. It’s a decent argument to have around the Tory choices in 2010, but IIRC Labour planned something very similar.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,126
    IanB2 said:

    Mortimer said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Mortimer said:

    Barnesian said:

    Mortimer said:

    That interview with Mr Sunak yesterday was toe-curling. How can anyone think he would get through an intensive General Election campaign? Who is advising him?

    The irony of Mr Seely going on TV to defend the line and being caught lieing about what he himself said on the same programme a week before is remarkable.

    So who comes out of this looking good? Penny Mordaunt - a woman who was rejected for leader due to 'culture war' issues. My oh my. With friends like the culture warriors what political party needs enemies!

    Meanwhile, outside the Westminster/PB bubble, an update from my local association:

    Disappointment that our MP voted with Labour. Donors and activists angry and deflated. Calls for Sunak to be replaced.

    Your continued reminder that whilst Sunak is popular here, and 'supported' by people who wouldn't dream of voting for him, the only time we've had a proper, working majority for the Tory party since PB began is when Boris Johnson went to the country in 2019.

    Yougov polling was clear yesterday: 2019 Tory voters prefer Boris.

    That is how unpopular Sunak is....



    The Tory party have a problem with their members, just as the Labour party had under Corbyn. They are cuckoos in the nest.

    Starmer was able to kick them out or at least neutralise them. Which leader of the Conservatives can do the same? Sunak seems too weak to do it. My money is on Mordaunt. But will the current Tory members allow her to be leader to cleanse them?
    LOL. Given the members select the MPs, I suspect there is more chance of the PCP changing than the membership.

    Those who gave Labour a big victory yesterday will be facing angry executives soon. There will almost certainly be some MPs looking for jobs elsewhere I should imagine.
    The committee was majority Tory, led by brexiteer Sir Bernard Jenkin. & I'm fairly sure the line (Which is true) is that the average person doesn't really care about this, so quite how it's a 'big victory for Labour' I'm not sure. Was the Ferrier suspension a 'big victory' for the union ?
    Voting with the opposition doesn't go down well in Tory associations, generally...

    It was seen as vindictive by many Tory members.

    But this is all besides the point.

    Polling shows that Tory 2019 voters prefer Johnson to Sunak. In the LEs we did worse than CCHQ's expectation management.

    They both shows to me how unelectable he is.
    No Tory is electable right now.

    The only possible path to redemption is for Sunak to renounce everything that has happened these years past - or be replaced by someone like Mordaunt more able to to the same - and then be seen to hug as many huskies as possible hoping voters will forget the shitshow we’ve all been subjected to since 2015. And hoping that Starmer’s ‘boring accountant’ impression doesn’t cut the mustard with voters who are seriously worried in serious times.

    It’s a long shot, but nevertheless the only game in town.

    One of Sunak’s significant handicaps is that he probably does believe in Brexit, despite most of his so-called friends thinking that he doesn’t.
    Because the country has become hooked on handouts

    That will pass when a Labour govt crashes the economy again.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    Hopefully this eventually means we get rid of shite columnists like Peter Hitchens and Sean Thomas.

    Germany’s Bild tabloid, the biggest-selling newspaper in Europe, is to replace a range of editorial jobs with artificial intelligence as part of a €100m costcutting programme expected to lead to hundreds of redundancies.

    The newspaper would “unfortunately be parting ways with colleagues who have tasks that in the digital world are performed by AI and/or automated processes”, its owner, Europe’s largest media publisher, Axel Springer SE, said in an email to staff.

    It said the roles of “editors, print production staff, subeditors, proofreaders and photo editors will no longer exist as they do today”, according to the email, seen by the rival Frankfurter Allgemeine newspaper (FAZ).


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/20/german-tabloid-bild-to-replace-range-of-editorial-jobs-with-ai
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,625
    Cicero said:

    Muesli said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Westie said:

    Taz said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    That list in full (since 1979)

    Thatcher
    Blair
    Major
    Cameron
    May
    Brown
    Sunak
    Johnson
    Truss

    You are very kind to Cameron, who I think is the PM whose stock has fallen the most since leaving office.
    My list would be

    Blair (despite Iraq)
    Thatcher
    Major
    Brown
    May
    Sunak
    Cameron
    Johnson
    Truss
    Fun game.

    My list would be.

    Thatcher
    Cameron
    Major
    Johnson
    Blair
    Sunak
    May
    Truss
    Brown

    And yes, I wanted Johnson out before he left and would not want him back, but I'd say the same to everyone I ranked below him too.
    Truss above Brown for what reason? Colour of rosette?
    No, not colour of rosette, I put Blair ahead of Sunak, May and Truss.

    Truss ahead of Brown as she was removed before she did too much damage. She was bad, I called for her to resign before she did, but she was quickly ousted before much worse happened.

    Her Premiership was like stepping on a piece of Lego. Short and painful but quickly over.

    The legacy of Gordon Brown was far more toxic and far more long-lasting. It needed a decade of austerity to clean up his mess.
    But the toxic legacy of Gordon Brown was more due to his time as Chancellor than that of his time as PM.

    It is judging of them as PM not overall.
    Indeed, it is hard to separate the two, which is why I rated Blair down in only 5th spot, he's down-rated due to Brown's legacy as Chancellor. Had it not been for Brown as Chancellor I'd have Blair up higher.

    But Brown made matters even worse as PM. He completely botched the financial crisis by bailing out the failed banks, rather than allowing them to go bust and protecting guaranteed creditors instead like Iceland did.

    That added much more debt than was necessary to an already bad problem and completely warped the market by suggesting that firms were too big to fail and making moral hazard a major problem.
    Don't forget Brown is a war criminal who should be in the dock at the Hague alongside Blair.

    As for Cameron, in his farewell speech to the Commons he focused on the introduction of gay marriage as a major achievement of his seven years in office. He only looks good compared with the four incompetents who succeeded him. And insofar as he was on the right side of the argument about EU membership.
    Anyone who suggests either Blair or Brown is a war criminal is outing themselves as ridiculous.

    And yes, Cameron deserves massive praise for introduction of equal marriage rights. 👍
    He said it was the achievement he was most proud of. And I'll resist the obvious comment of 'from a short list' because it was an achievement and he's right to feel that way.
    Particularly against the majority of his MPs; nowadays the PM is running scared of a minority of his.
    'Dave' masked it for a while but the Tory Party seem to be uncomfortable with the modern world again. Not sure about Sunak at all. I find it hard to get a read on what he's all about. When he took over I was a bit worried he might be very good but no, he decidedly isn't. Phew.
    Yes, but sorry to break it to you, but podgy Kier will be worse. Unlike Sunak, he knows fuck all about business and he has failed (unlike Blair) to make up for that massive deficit by surrounding himself with people that do. I hope I am wrong, but I expect to see the economy improve a little on the optimism of a change of government but then for it to tank under the mismanagement of people that have even less understanding of how an economy and business works that Peppa Pig Boy and Lizzy Lightweight combined.
    In that case, let me put you out of your misery: you are wrong.

    The Shadow Chancellor worked as an economist for the Bank of England, the UK embassy in Washington DC and Halifax Bank of Scotland before entering the Commons. She also chaired the Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy Committee from 2017 to 2020. These are not the hallmarks of a wide-eyed ingenue that “knows fuck all about business”, are they?

    Wind your bloody neck in, for Pete’s sake.
    Obviously touched a nerve. As this is only your 51st post, and you clearly find it difficult to look at your own political idols with anything less than rose tinted specs I will be polite, but feel obliged to point out that it seems that it might be your neck that may be getting overdistended. And by the way, Pete really doesn't mind when I last asked him.

    Certainly compared to the average Labour politician she has more credentials here than most of her colleagues, and like Starmer, she is a huge improvement on her predecessors. Just to educate your good self though, economist does not equal business person. As I am guessing you might be a bit of an enthusiastic uncritical Labour supporter I am sure that is a revelation to you, as you probably assume they are the same. They are not.

    Starmer needs to do a lot more work with the business community. He still has time.
    Sunak's "business" career involved working as an analyst at Goldman Sachs, and later for an array of hedge funds. Now colour me skeptical but none of those enterprises involved chasing accounts receivable, juggling cashflow and harassing customers to make that order. That's my experience of a background in "business". Sunak's most informative business education was minding the chemist's shop for his mum.

    If Starmer is not already engaging with business interest groups he has no desire to become PM.
    Your criticism is valid, but it is still significantly greater than Sir Kier "when I was Director of Public Prosecutions" Starmer though n'est pas? And significantly greater than anyone on the Labour front bench unless I have missed something. Our economy requires people who don't just understand business, but understand what makes it tick. It is one of the worst aspects of our polarised system. We are about to replace one bunch who have no idea hwe a whole demographic works with another lot who are just as bad in a different direction. Maybe the LibDems are the compromise solution? (kidding)
    Tories are the party of "fuck business".
    Nope, Johnson, an ex-leader stated this, and though, as you know, I am no apologist for the fat incompetent twat, it was taken out of context. Many people in Labour genuinely believe it, and they will do everything they can to achieve it..
    I had a senior role in an international British Chamber of Commerce all through the Brexit process and I can honestly say that the opinions of business were not merely ignored, but actively silenced by Conservative ministers, to the point that the Umbrella organisation of British Chambers in Europe was forcibly merged into a "global" group, without a European aspect.

    I met with UK ministers on numerous occasions and in general the serious issues that we raised, and which have proven to be even worse than we predicted, were either ignored, minimized or derided.

    So I have no doubt that the Conservatives have been incredibly bad for UK PLC, to the point that I actively welcome their total removal from office. In other words "F%ck the Conservatives".
    Did you lobby for anything other than continuing full alignment with the single market?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,860
    Mortimer said:

    IanB2 said:

    Mortimer said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Mortimer said:

    Barnesian said:

    Mortimer said:

    That interview with Mr Sunak yesterday was toe-curling. How can anyone think he would get through an intensive General Election campaign? Who is advising him?

    The irony of Mr Seely going on TV to defend the line and being caught lieing about what he himself said on the same programme a week before is remarkable.

    So who comes out of this looking good? Penny Mordaunt - a woman who was rejected for leader due to 'culture war' issues. My oh my. With friends like the culture warriors what political party needs enemies!

    Meanwhile, outside the Westminster/PB bubble, an update from my local association:

    Disappointment that our MP voted with Labour. Donors and activists angry and deflated. Calls for Sunak to be replaced.

    Your continued reminder that whilst Sunak is popular here, and 'supported' by people who wouldn't dream of voting for him, the only time we've had a proper, working majority for the Tory party since PB began is when Boris Johnson went to the country in 2019.

    Yougov polling was clear yesterday: 2019 Tory voters prefer Boris.

    That is how unpopular Sunak is....



    The Tory party have a problem with their members, just as the Labour party had under Corbyn. They are cuckoos in the nest.

    Starmer was able to kick them out or at least neutralise them. Which leader of the Conservatives can do the same? Sunak seems too weak to do it. My money is on Mordaunt. But will the current Tory members allow her to be leader to cleanse them?
    LOL. Given the members select the MPs, I suspect there is more chance of the PCP changing than the membership.

    Those who gave Labour a big victory yesterday will be facing angry executives soon. There will almost certainly be some MPs looking for jobs elsewhere I should imagine.
    The committee was majority Tory, led by brexiteer Sir Bernard Jenkin. & I'm fairly sure the line (Which is true) is that the average person doesn't really care about this, so quite how it's a 'big victory for Labour' I'm not sure. Was the Ferrier suspension a 'big victory' for the union ?
    Voting with the opposition doesn't go down well in Tory associations, generally...

    It was seen as vindictive by many Tory members.

    But this is all besides the point.

    Polling shows that Tory 2019 voters prefer Johnson to Sunak. In the LEs we did worse than CCHQ's expectation management.

    They both shows to me how unelectable he is.
    No Tory is electable right now.

    The only possible path to redemption is for Sunak to renounce everything that has happened these years past - or be replaced by someone like Mordaunt more able to to the same - and then be seen to hug as many huskies as possible hoping voters will forget the shitshow we’ve all been subjected to since 2015. And hoping that Starmer’s ‘boring accountant’ impression doesn’t cut the mustard with voters who are seriously worried in serious times.

    It’s a long shot, but nevertheless the only game in town.

    One of Sunak’s significant handicaps is that he probably does believe in Brexit, despite most of his so-called friends thinking that he doesn’t.
    Because the country has become hooked on handouts

    That will pass when a Labour govt crashes the economy again.
    Take a more mature approach to the EU and they could very easily do better
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Fuck me how do you block Dail Mail pop-ups and Notifications?

    I accidentally pressed allow, and now nothing will get rid of them. Like Japanese knotweed
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,779

    FF43 said:

    Sean_F said:

    FF43 said:

    Sean_F said:

    FF43 said:

    glw said:

    So apart from catastrophically bad financial regulation, an unchecked housing boom and bust, and a huge amount of poor value PFI to make UK government debt look better Gordon Brown was a pretty good Chancellor and later PM eh?

    You Brown fans are as nuts as the Tories defending Boris yesterday evening.

    You think Brown was boomier and buster in housing than Thatcher?

    Also Brown didn't introduce additional risk with his financial services regulation. He failed to address the systemic risk he inherited from his predecessors due to inadequate regulation.
    Undoubtedly. House prices rose 206% between 1997 and 2007.
    They also nearly doubled between 1982 and 1989 and then fell back much harder than 2007
    I'm talking about tripling, not doubling.
    Ah OK. Difference between nominal and real house prices.

    Point I'm making is not that Brown got this stuff right. It's that he did the same as everyone else, but for some reason people pick him out as uniquely catastrophic.
    What he did was uniquely catastrophic. Well apart from all Labour government's running out of money, that's not unique.

    Can you name any other government that oversaw house prices going from a 3x income multiple to a 7x income multiple in a few years?

    Can you name any other government that saw a budget surplus turned into a budget deficit of 3% in a few years before rather than after the next recession hits?
    The Blair and Brown governments didn't get everything right but despite facing the worst global financial crisis since WW2 they presided over lower and more stable inflation than we've seen before or since, combined with much lower unemployment than under Thatcher and Major and stronger economic growth than under the current Tory administration. Combine with real improvements in public services, real progress on poverty reduction and a historic peace deal in Northern Ireland and you can see why most fair minded observers would view it as a relatively successful period for the UK.
    I may have it wrong, but wasn’t the GFC in 2008, so not even Blair’s watch, and just two years of Brown left? The impacts of 2008 have rippled down the years. It’s a decent argument to have around the Tory choices in 2010, but IIRC Labour planned something very similar.
    I mentioned it simply because without it the UK's economic performance in terms of growth, unemployment and inflation would have looked even better under the last Labour government - remarkably good in fact, rather than just pretty good. It was a largely successful government, which is more than one can say for the shambolic succession of horror shows that have followed.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    edited June 2023

    Hopefully this eventually means we get rid of shite columnists like Peter Hitchens and Sean Thomas.

    Germany’s Bild tabloid, the biggest-selling newspaper in Europe, is to replace a range of editorial jobs with artificial intelligence as part of a €100m costcutting programme expected to lead to hundreds of redundancies.

    The newspaper would “unfortunately be parting ways with colleagues who have tasks that in the digital world are performed by AI and/or automated processes”, its owner, Europe’s largest media publisher, Axel Springer SE, said in an email to staff.

    It said the roles of “editors, print production staff, subeditors, proofreaders and photo editors will no longer exist as they do today”, according to the email, seen by the rival Frankfurter Allgemeine newspaper (FAZ).


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/20/german-tabloid-bild-to-replace-range-of-editorial-jobs-with-ai

    Ahem, as I predicted

    Unfortunately
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,860
    Cicero said:

    Muesli said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Westie said:

    Taz said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    That list in full (since 1979)

    Thatcher
    Blair
    Major
    Cameron
    May
    Brown
    Sunak
    Johnson
    Truss

    You are very kind to Cameron, who I think is the PM whose stock has fallen the most since leaving office.
    My list would be

    Blair (despite Iraq)
    Thatcher
    Major
    Brown
    May
    Sunak
    Cameron
    Johnson
    Truss
    Fun game.

    My list would be.

    Thatcher
    Cameron
    Major
    Johnson
    Blair
    Sunak
    May
    Truss
    Brown

    And yes, I wanted Johnson out before he left and would not want him back, but I'd say the same to everyone I ranked below him too.
    Truss above Brown for what reason? Colour of rosette?
    No, not colour of rosette, I put Blair ahead of Sunak, May and Truss.

    Truss ahead of Brown as she was removed before she did too much damage. She was bad, I called for her to resign before she did, but she was quickly ousted before much worse happened.

    Her Premiership was like stepping on a piece of Lego. Short and painful but quickly over.

    The legacy of Gordon Brown was far more toxic and far more long-lasting. It needed a decade of austerity to clean up his mess.
    But the toxic legacy of Gordon Brown was more due to his time as Chancellor than that of his time as PM.

    It is judging of them as PM not overall.
    Indeed, it is hard to separate the two, which is why I rated Blair down in only 5th spot, he's down-rated due to Brown's legacy as Chancellor. Had it not been for Brown as Chancellor I'd have Blair up higher.

    But Brown made matters even worse as PM. He completely botched the financial crisis by bailing out the failed banks, rather than allowing them to go bust and protecting guaranteed creditors instead like Iceland did.

    That added much more debt than was necessary to an already bad problem and completely warped the market by suggesting that firms were too big to fail and making moral hazard a major problem.
    Don't forget Brown is a war criminal who should be in the dock at the Hague alongside Blair.

    As for Cameron, in his farewell speech to the Commons he focused on the introduction of gay marriage as a major achievement of his seven years in office. He only looks good compared with the four incompetents who succeeded him. And insofar as he was on the right side of the argument about EU membership.
    Anyone who suggests either Blair or Brown is a war criminal is outing themselves as ridiculous.

    And yes, Cameron deserves massive praise for introduction of equal marriage rights. 👍
    He said it was the achievement he was most proud of. And I'll resist the obvious comment of 'from a short list' because it was an achievement and he's right to feel that way.
    Particularly against the majority of his MPs; nowadays the PM is running scared of a minority of his.
    'Dave' masked it for a while but the Tory Party seem to be uncomfortable with the modern world again. Not sure about Sunak at all. I find it hard to get a read on what he's all about. When he took over I was a bit worried he might be very good but no, he decidedly isn't. Phew.
    Yes, but sorry to break it to you, but podgy Kier will be worse. Unlike Sunak, he knows fuck all about business and he has failed (unlike Blair) to make up for that massive deficit by surrounding himself with people that do. I hope I am wrong, but I expect to see the economy improve a little on the optimism of a change of government but then for it to tank under the mismanagement of people that have even less understanding of how an economy and business works that Peppa Pig Boy and Lizzy Lightweight combined.
    In that case, let me put you out of your misery: you are wrong.

    The Shadow Chancellor worked as an economist for the Bank of England, the UK embassy in Washington DC and Halifax Bank of Scotland before entering the Commons. She also chaired the Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy Committee from 2017 to 2020. These are not the hallmarks of a wide-eyed ingenue that “knows fuck all about business”, are they?

    Wind your bloody neck in, for Pete’s sake.
    Obviously touched a nerve. As this is only your 51st post, and you clearly find it difficult to look at your own political idols with anything less than rose tinted specs I will be polite, but feel obliged to point out that it seems that it might be your neck that may be getting overdistended. And by the way, Pete really doesn't mind when I last asked him.

    Certainly compared to the average Labour politician she has more credentials here than most of her colleagues, and like Starmer, she is a huge improvement on her predecessors. Just to educate your good self though, economist does not equal business person. As I am guessing you might be a bit of an enthusiastic uncritical Labour supporter I am sure that is a revelation to you, as you probably assume they are the same. They are not.

    Starmer needs to do a lot more work with the business community. He still has time.
    Sunak's "business" career involved working as an analyst at Goldman Sachs, and later for an array of hedge funds. Now colour me skeptical but none of those enterprises involved chasing accounts receivable, juggling cashflow and harassing customers to make that order. That's my experience of a background in "business". Sunak's most informative business education was minding the chemist's shop for his mum.

    If Starmer is not already engaging with business interest groups he has no desire to become PM.
    Your criticism is valid, but it is still significantly greater than Sir Kier "when I was Director of Public Prosecutions" Starmer though n'est pas? And significantly greater than anyone on the Labour front bench unless I have missed something. Our economy requires people who don't just understand business, but understand what makes it tick. It is one of the worst aspects of our polarised system. We are about to replace one bunch who have no idea hwe a whole demographic works with another lot who are just as bad in a different direction. Maybe the LibDems are the compromise solution? (kidding)
    Tories are the party of "fuck business".
    Nope, Johnson, an ex-leader stated this, and though, as you know, I am no apologist for the fat incompetent twat, it was taken out of context. Many people in Labour genuinely believe it, and they will do everything they can to achieve it..
    I had a senior role in an international British Chamber of Commerce all through the Brexit process and I can honestly say that the opinions of business were not merely ignored, but actively silenced by Conservative ministers, to the point that the Umbrella organisation of British Chambers in Europe was forcibly merged into a "global" group, without a European aspect.

    I met with UK ministers on numerous occasions and in general the serious issues that we raised, and which have proven to be even worse than we predicted, were either ignored, minimized or derided.

    So I have no doubt that the Conservatives have been incredibly bad for UK PLC, to the point that I actively welcome their total removal from office. In other words "F%ck the Conservatives".
    As I said to Mortimer above.

    We have reached the point where, however ineffectual or duplicitous Starmer’s Labour turns out to be, few currently believe that putting this bunch of dysfunctional Tories back in for another five years could possibly turn out any better.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    FF43 said:

    Sean_F said:

    FF43 said:

    Sean_F said:

    FF43 said:

    glw said:

    So apart from catastrophically bad financial regulation, an unchecked housing boom and bust, and a huge amount of poor value PFI to make UK government debt look better Gordon Brown was a pretty good Chancellor and later PM eh?

    You Brown fans are as nuts as the Tories defending Boris yesterday evening.

    You think Brown was boomier and buster in housing than Thatcher?

    Also Brown didn't introduce additional risk with his financial services regulation. He failed to address the systemic risk he inherited from his predecessors due to inadequate regulation.
    Undoubtedly. House prices rose 206% between 1997 and 2007.
    They also nearly doubled between 1982 and 1989 and then fell back much harder than 2007
    I'm talking about tripling, not doubling.
    Ah OK. Difference between nominal and real house prices.

    Point I'm making is not that Brown got this stuff right. It's that he did the same as everyone else, but for some reason people pick him out as uniquely catastrophic.
    What he did was uniquely catastrophic. Well apart from all Labour government's running out of money, that's not unique.

    Can you name any other government that oversaw house prices going from a 3x income multiple to a 7x income multiple in a few years?

    Can you name any other government that saw a budget surplus turned into a budget deficit of 3% in a few years before rather than after the next recession hits?
    The Blair and Brown governments didn't get everything right but despite facing the worst global financial crisis since WW2 they presided over lower and more stable inflation than we've seen before or since, combined with much lower unemployment than under Thatcher and Major and stronger economic growth than under the current Tory administration. Combine with real improvements in public services, real progress on poverty reduction and a historic peace deal in Northern Ireland and you can see why most fair minded observers would view it as a relatively successful period for the UK.
    I may have it wrong, but wasn’t the GFC in 2008, so not even Blair’s watch, and just two years of Brown left? The impacts of 2008 have rippled down the years. It’s a decent argument to have around the Tory choices in 2010, but IIRC Labour planned something very similar.
    I mentioned it simply because without it the UK's economic performance in terms of growth, unemployment and inflation would have looked even better under the last Labour government - remarkably good in fact, rather than just pretty good. It was a largely successful government, which is more than one can say for the shambolic succession of horror shows that have followed.
    And you don’t buy the argument that they inherited a booming economy at a time of good global conditions?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,860
    Leon said:

    Fuck me how do you block Dail Mail pop-ups and Notifications?

    I accidentally pressed allow, and now nothing will get rid of them. Like Japanese knotweed

    Also like Leon posts in PB of an afternoon.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    Leon said:

    Hopefully this eventually means we get rid of shite columnists like Peter Hitchens and Sean Thomas.

    Germany’s Bild tabloid, the biggest-selling newspaper in Europe, is to replace a range of editorial jobs with artificial intelligence as part of a €100m costcutting programme expected to lead to hundreds of redundancies.

    The newspaper would “unfortunately be parting ways with colleagues who have tasks that in the digital world are performed by AI and/or automated processes”, its owner, Europe’s largest media publisher, Axel Springer SE, said in an email to staff.

    It said the roles of “editors, print production staff, subeditors, proofreaders and photo editors will no longer exist as they do today”, according to the email, seen by the rival Frankfurter Allgemeine newspaper (FAZ).


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/20/german-tabloid-bild-to-replace-range-of-editorial-jobs-with-ai

    Ahem, as I predicted

    Unfortanately
    AI will never replace me on PB.

    AI will commit suicide when OGH informs it he is going on holiday.
  • MuesliMuesli Posts: 202

    Muesli said:

    Muesli said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Westie said:

    Taz said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    That list in full (since 1979)

    Thatcher
    Blair
    Major
    Cameron
    May
    Brown
    Sunak
    Johnson
    Truss

    You are very kind to Cameron, who I think is the PM whose stock has fallen the most since leaving office.
    My list would be

    Blair (despite Iraq)
    Thatcher
    Major
    Brown
    May
    Sunak
    Cameron
    Johnson
    Truss
    Fun game.

    My list would be.

    Thatcher
    Cameron
    Major
    Johnson
    Blair
    Sunak
    May
    Truss
    Brown

    And yes, I wanted Johnson out before he left and would not want him back, but I'd say the same to everyone I ranked below him too.
    Truss above Brown for what reason? Colour of rosette?
    No, not colour of rosette, I put Blair ahead of Sunak, May and Truss.

    Truss ahead of Brown as she was removed before she did too much damage. She was bad, I called for her to resign before she did, but she was quickly ousted before much worse happened.

    Her Premiership was like stepping on a piece of Lego. Short and painful but quickly over.

    The legacy of Gordon Brown was far more toxic and far more long-lasting. It needed a decade of austerity to clean up his mess.
    But the toxic legacy of Gordon Brown was more due to his time as Chancellor than that of his time as PM.

    It is judging of them as PM not overall.
    Indeed, it is hard to separate the two, which is why I rated Blair down in only 5th spot, he's down-rated due to Brown's legacy as Chancellor. Had it not been for Brown as Chancellor I'd have Blair up higher.

    But Brown made matters even worse as PM. He completely botched the financial crisis by bailing out the failed banks, rather than allowing them to go bust and protecting guaranteed creditors instead like Iceland did.

    That added much more debt than was necessary to an already bad problem and completely warped the market by suggesting that firms were too big to fail and making moral hazard a major problem.
    Don't forget Brown is a war criminal who should be in the dock at the Hague alongside Blair.

    As for Cameron, in his farewell speech to the Commons he focused on the introduction of gay marriage as a major achievement of his seven years in office. He only looks good compared with the four incompetents who succeeded him. And insofar as he was on the right side of the argument about EU membership.
    Anyone who suggests either Blair or Brown is a war criminal is outing themselves as ridiculous.

    And yes, Cameron deserves massive praise for introduction of equal marriage rights. 👍
    He said it was the achievement he was most proud of. And I'll resist the obvious comment of 'from a short list' because it was an achievement and he's right to feel that way.
    Particularly against the majority of his MPs; nowadays the PM is running scared of a minority of his.
    'Dave' masked it for a while but the Tory Party seem to be uncomfortable with the modern world again. Not sure about Sunak at all. I find it hard to get a read on what he's all about. When he took over I was a bit worried he might be very good but no, he decidedly isn't. Phew.
    Yes, but sorry to break it to you, but podgy Kier will be worse. Unlike Sunak, he knows fuck all about business and he has failed (unlike Blair) to make up for that massive deficit by surrounding himself with people that do. I hope I am wrong, but I expect to see the economy improve a little on the optimism of a change of government but then for it to tank under the mismanagement of people that have even less understanding of how an economy and business works that Peppa Pig Boy and Lizzy Lightweight combined.
    In that case, let me put you out of your misery: you are wrong.

    The Shadow Chancellor worked as an economist for the Bank of England, the UK embassy in Washington DC and Halifax Bank of Scotland before entering the Commons. She also chaired the Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy Committee from 2017 to 2020. These are not the hallmarks of a wide-eyed ingenue that “knows fuck all about business”, are they?

    Wind your bloody neck in, for Pete’s sake.
    Obviously touched a nerve. As this is only your 51st post, and you clearly find it difficult to look at your own political idols with anything less than rose tinted specs I will be polite, but feel obliged to point out that it seems that it might be your neck that may be getting overdistended. And by the way, Pete really doesn't mind when I last asked him.

    Certainly compared to the average Labour politician she has more credentials here than most of her colleagues, and like Starmer, she is a huge improvement on her predecessors. Just to educate your good self though, economist does not equal business person. As I am guessing you might be a bit of an enthusiastic uncritical Labour supporter I am sure that is a revelation to you, as you probably assume they are the same. They are not.

    Starmer needs to do a lot more work with the business community. He still has time.
    I suspect the only nerve you’ve touched today is your pudendal nerve. And your assumptions about my political persuasions are as misguided as your assertions about the respective business and economic expertise within the governments of Sunak, Blair and Starmer.
    You seem very angry. We do have a few angry people on here as it is an inclusive site. Try chilling out a bit though and it will make your posts seem more interesting and prevent people from thinking you are just a swiveleyed twat.
    I'm not very angry, Nigel. I'm certainly chilled out enough to avoid referring to another poster as "just a swiveleyed twat", in any case, Nigel. But thanks for passing on the (presumably second-hand) advice on chilling out, making my posts more interesting and preventing people from thinking I'm "just a swiveleyed twat", Nigel. I'll make sure I pay it due regard, Nigel. You have a good day now, Nigel.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714
    @Tomorrow'sMPs
    @tomorrowsmps
    ·
    40s
    🔵 SOMERTON & FROME: I understand that James Hamblin, chief-of-staff to David Warburton, the MP who has just quit, has applied for the Conservative selection.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714

    Leon said:

    Hopefully this eventually means we get rid of shite columnists like Peter Hitchens and Sean Thomas.

    Germany’s Bild tabloid, the biggest-selling newspaper in Europe, is to replace a range of editorial jobs with artificial intelligence as part of a €100m costcutting programme expected to lead to hundreds of redundancies.

    The newspaper would “unfortunately be parting ways with colleagues who have tasks that in the digital world are performed by AI and/or automated processes”, its owner, Europe’s largest media publisher, Axel Springer SE, said in an email to staff.

    It said the roles of “editors, print production staff, subeditors, proofreaders and photo editors will no longer exist as they do today”, according to the email, seen by the rival Frankfurter Allgemeine newspaper (FAZ).


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/20/german-tabloid-bild-to-replace-range-of-editorial-jobs-with-ai

    Ahem, as I predicted

    Unfortanately
    AI will never replace me on PB.

    AI will commit suicide when OGH informs it he is going on holiday.
    AI doesn't have the dress sense for the job anyway.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    5 scenarios i think ?

    1) Eng bowl Aus out.
    2) Aus get the runs.
    3) Thai
    4) England bowl out their remaining 47 overs
    5) Bad light (Or rain) stops play

    No official close of play is there tonight I think ?
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,297

    rkrkrk said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Westie said:

    Taz said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    That list in full (since 1979)

    Thatcher
    Blair
    Major
    Cameron
    May
    Brown
    Sunak
    Johnson
    Truss

    You are very kind to Cameron, who I think is the PM whose stock has fallen the most since leaving office.
    My list would be

    Blair (despite Iraq)
    Thatcher
    Major
    Brown
    May
    Sunak
    Cameron
    Johnson
    Truss
    Fun game.

    My list would be.

    Thatcher
    Cameron
    Major
    Johnson
    Blair
    Sunak
    May
    Truss
    Brown

    And yes, I wanted Johnson out before he left and would not want him back, but I'd say the same to everyone I ranked below him too.
    Truss above Brown for what reason? Colour of rosette?
    No, not colour of rosette, I put Blair ahead of Sunak, May and Truss.

    Truss ahead of Brown as she was removed before she did too much damage. She was bad, I called for her to resign before she did, but she was quickly ousted before much worse happened.

    Her Premiership was like stepping on a piece of Lego. Short and painful but quickly over.

    The legacy of Gordon Brown was far more toxic and far more long-lasting. It needed a decade of austerity to clean up his mess.
    But the toxic legacy of Gordon Brown was more due to his time as Chancellor than that of his time as PM.

    It is judging of them as PM not overall.
    Indeed, it is hard to separate the two, which is why I rated Blair down in only 5th spot, he's down-rated due to Brown's legacy as Chancellor. Had it not been for Brown as Chancellor I'd have Blair up higher.

    But Brown made matters even worse as PM. He completely botched the financial crisis by bailing out the failed banks, rather than allowing them to go bust and protecting guaranteed creditors instead like Iceland did.

    That added much more debt than was necessary to an already bad problem and completely warped the market by suggesting that firms were too big to fail and making moral hazard a major problem.
    Don't forget Brown is a war criminal who should be in the dock at the Hague alongside Blair.

    As for Cameron, in his farewell speech to the Commons he focused on the introduction of gay marriage as a major achievement of his seven years in office. He only looks good compared with the four incompetents who succeeded him. And insofar as he was on the right side of the argument about EU membership.
    Anyone who suggests either Blair or Brown is a war criminal is outing themselves as ridiculous.

    And yes, Cameron deserves massive praise for introduction of equal marriage rights. 👍
    He said it was the achievement he was most proud of. And I'll resist the obvious comment of 'from a short list' because it was an achievement and he's right to feel that way.
    Particularly against the majority of his MPs; nowadays the PM is running scared of a minority of his.
    'Dave' masked it for a while but the Tory Party seem to be uncomfortable with the modern world again. Not sure about Sunak at all. I find it hard to get a read on what he's all about. When he took over I was a bit worried he might be very good but no, he decidedly isn't. Phew.
    Yes, but sorry to break it to you, but podgy Kier will be worse. Unlike Sunak, he knows fuck all about business and he has failed (unlike Blair) to make up for that massive deficit by surrounding himself with people that do. I hope I am wrong, but I expect to see the economy improve a little on the optimism of a change of government but then for it to tank under the mismanagement of people that have even less understanding of how an economy and business works that Peppa Pig Boy and Lizzy Lightweight combined.
    I'm not sure of the answer myself, but it is legitimate to challenge your post by asking who you think is serious and who you think is unserious in the Labour ranks or what, amongst the trickle of policy announcements, you regard as serious or unserious? Show your workings.
    A good and fair question. My impression is that the curent Labour leadership is only interested in the public sector based on announcements made and questions put by LoTO. I would be delighted to be reassured, because we are almost certain to get a Labour government. Can I perhaps ask you a question or two? a) what policy announcements has Starmer made that demonstrate Labour's commitment to business and wealth creation in the private sector (as was done by Blair) and how many people on the Labour frontbench have had a substantial part of their career in the private, not public sector?
    Tories have plenty of ministers with private sector experience. Hasn't led to much national wealth creation over the past decade that I can see.

    Agree though that very few lab mps have business backgrounds, especially if you rule out the lawyers. Tbh many MPs have very little experience in anything other than politics.

    'Tis why I don't buy the argument against second jobs. Being a backbencher is a part time job or how else can one also be a minister? All backbenchers should IMO be encouraged to have second jobs even if it is pushing trolleys in a Tesco car park.
    I think most people are fine with genuine 2nd jobs, it's the lobbying jobs which are wrong. It ought to be possible to tell the difference in my opinion.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    The ex-PBer @SeanT on "AI and the end of Writing":


    "Putting on my pointy hat of pessimism, here’s how I think it will pan out. The machines will come for much academic work first – essays, PhDs, boring scholarly texts (unsurprisingly it can churn these out right now). Fanfic is instantly doomed, as are self-published novels. Next will be low-level journalism, copywriting, marketing, legalese, tech writing..."


    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/ai-is-the-end-of-writing/
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    edited June 2023
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Fuck me how do you block Dail Mail pop-ups and Notifications?

    I accidentally pressed allow, and now nothing will get rid of them. Like Japanese knotweed

    Also like Leon posts in PB of an afternoon.
    If you can tell me how to successfully get rid of Daily Mail Notifications I will promise not to comment for 72 hours. Serious offer. Driving me nuts
  • FF43 said:

    Sean_F said:

    FF43 said:

    Sean_F said:

    FF43 said:

    glw said:

    So apart from catastrophically bad financial regulation, an unchecked housing boom and bust, and a huge amount of poor value PFI to make UK government debt look better Gordon Brown was a pretty good Chancellor and later PM eh?

    You Brown fans are as nuts as the Tories defending Boris yesterday evening.

    You think Brown was boomier and buster in housing than Thatcher?

    Also Brown didn't introduce additional risk with his financial services regulation. He failed to address the systemic risk he inherited from his predecessors due to inadequate regulation.
    Undoubtedly. House prices rose 206% between 1997 and 2007.
    They also nearly doubled between 1982 and 1989 and then fell back much harder than 2007
    I'm talking about tripling, not doubling.
    Ah OK. Difference between nominal and real house prices.

    Point I'm making is not that Brown got this stuff right. It's that he did the same as everyone else, but for some reason people pick him out as uniquely catastrophic.
    What he did was uniquely catastrophic. Well apart from all Labour government's running out of money, that's not unique.

    Can you name any other government that oversaw house prices going from a 3x income multiple to a 7x income multiple in a few years?

    Can you name any other government that saw a budget surplus turned into a budget deficit of 3% in a few years before rather than after the next recession hits?
    The Blair and Brown governments didn't get everything right but despite facing the worst global financial crisis since WW2 they presided over lower and more stable inflation than we've seen before or since, combined with much lower unemployment than under Thatcher and Major and stronger economic growth than under the current Tory administration. Combine with real improvements in public services, real progress on poverty reduction and a historic peace deal in Northern Ireland and you can see why most fair minded observers would view it as a relatively successful period for the UK.
    "lower and more stable inflation" - unmitigated bullshit.

    So housing going from £60k in 1997 to £177k in 2010 was "low and stable inflation".

    Or do you mean low and stable inflation, if you exclude from inflation those costs that were going up?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,385
    Pulpstar said:

    5 scenarios i think ?

    1) Eng bowl Aus out.
    2) Aus get the runs.
    3) Thai
    4) England bowl out their remaining 47 overs
    5) Bad light (Or rain) stops play

    No official close of play is there tonight I think ?

    Didn’t know the Thais were playing.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,385
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Fuck me how do you block Dail Mail pop-ups and Notifications?

    I accidentally pressed allow, and now nothing will get rid of them. Like Japanese knotweed

    Also like Leon posts in PB of an afternoon.
    If you can tell me how to successfully get rid of Daily Mail Notifications I will promise not to comment for 72 hours. Serious offer. Driving me nuts
    Burn your phone?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,779

    FF43 said:

    Sean_F said:

    FF43 said:

    Sean_F said:

    FF43 said:

    glw said:

    So apart from catastrophically bad financial regulation, an unchecked housing boom and bust, and a huge amount of poor value PFI to make UK government debt look better Gordon Brown was a pretty good Chancellor and later PM eh?

    You Brown fans are as nuts as the Tories defending Boris yesterday evening.

    You think Brown was boomier and buster in housing than Thatcher?

    Also Brown didn't introduce additional risk with his financial services regulation. He failed to address the systemic risk he inherited from his predecessors due to inadequate regulation.
    Undoubtedly. House prices rose 206% between 1997 and 2007.
    They also nearly doubled between 1982 and 1989 and then fell back much harder than 2007
    I'm talking about tripling, not doubling.
    Ah OK. Difference between nominal and real house prices.

    Point I'm making is not that Brown got this stuff right. It's that he did the same as everyone else, but for some reason people pick him out as uniquely catastrophic.
    What he did was uniquely catastrophic. Well apart from all Labour government's running out of money, that's not unique.

    Can you name any other government that oversaw house prices going from a 3x income multiple to a 7x income multiple in a few years?

    Can you name any other government that saw a budget surplus turned into a budget deficit of 3% in a few years before rather than after the next recession hits?
    The Blair and Brown governments didn't get everything right but despite facing the worst global financial crisis since WW2 they presided over lower and more stable inflation than we've seen before or since, combined with much lower unemployment than under Thatcher and Major and stronger economic growth than under the current Tory administration. Combine with real improvements in public services, real progress on poverty reduction and a historic peace deal in Northern Ireland and you can see why most fair minded observers would view it as a relatively successful period for the UK.
    "lower and more stable inflation" - unmitigated bullshit.

    So housing going from £60k in 1997 to £177k in 2010 was "low and stable inflation".

    Or do you mean low and stable inflation, if you exclude from inflation those costs that were going up?
    I mean inflation as it is usually defined - inflation in goods and services, not asset prices.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    edited June 2023
    .
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Fuck me how do you block Dail Mail pop-ups and Notifications?

    I accidentally pressed allow, and now nothing will get rid of them. Like Japanese knotweed

    Also like Leon posts in PB of an afternoon.
    If you can tell me how to successfully get rid of Daily Mail Notifications I will promise not to comment for 72 hours. Serious offer. Driving me nuts
    1. Clear browsing history for the last hour. Clear cache and cookies ‘website data’.

    2. Open news websites only in private browsing window. That’s the one you usually use for the pr0n.

    3. Install Adblock plus www.adblockplus.org
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,892
    Leon said:

    Fuck me how do you block Dail Mail pop-ups and Notifications?

    I accidentally pressed allow, and now nothing will get rid of them. Like Japanese knotweed

    I don't know. Look round the site? Google it? Ask ChatGPT?

    What I would do is close any Mail browser windows, delete all downloaded files in the browser cache, and (the important bit) delete any Mail-related cookies.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,385

    FF43 said:

    Sean_F said:

    FF43 said:

    Sean_F said:

    FF43 said:

    glw said:

    So apart from catastrophically bad financial regulation, an unchecked housing boom and bust, and a huge amount of poor value PFI to make UK government debt look better Gordon Brown was a pretty good Chancellor and later PM eh?

    You Brown fans are as nuts as the Tories defending Boris yesterday evening.

    You think Brown was boomier and buster in housing than Thatcher?

    Also Brown didn't introduce additional risk with his financial services regulation. He failed to address the systemic risk he inherited from his predecessors due to inadequate regulation.
    Undoubtedly. House prices rose 206% between 1997 and 2007.
    They also nearly doubled between 1982 and 1989 and then fell back much harder than 2007
    I'm talking about tripling, not doubling.
    Ah OK. Difference between nominal and real house prices.

    Point I'm making is not that Brown got this stuff right. It's that he did the same as everyone else, but for some reason people pick him out as uniquely catastrophic.
    What he did was uniquely catastrophic. Well apart from all Labour government's running out of money, that's not unique.

    Can you name any other government that oversaw house prices going from a 3x income multiple to a 7x income multiple in a few years?

    Can you name any other government that saw a budget surplus turned into a budget deficit of 3% in a few years before rather than after the next recession hits?
    The Blair and Brown governments didn't get everything right but despite facing the worst global financial crisis since WW2 they presided over lower and more stable inflation than we've seen before or since, combined with much lower unemployment than under Thatcher and Major and stronger economic growth than under the current Tory administration. Combine with real improvements in public services, real progress on poverty reduction and a historic peace deal in Northern Ireland and you can see why most fair minded observers would view it as a relatively successful period for the UK.
    "lower and more stable inflation" - unmitigated bullshit.

    So housing going from £60k in 1997 to £177k in 2010 was "low and stable inflation".

    Or do you mean low and stable inflation, if you exclude from inflation those costs that were going up?
    I mean inflation as it is usually defined - inflation in goods and services, not asset prices.
    That definition is one of the reasons our economy has become so distorted.

    In any case, I was always dubious about that inflation measure. I noticed the price of basic staples skyrocketing, particularly bread, even if China was making consumer goods much cheaper.

    As for council tax…
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,515

    Looking increasingly likely AUS may not get there by 80 overs which could give ENG a chance with second new ball. If AUS have established batters then, then this won't help ENG but it could do if they are say 7 or 8 down with new batters.

    Am I a dinosaur for preferring 'batsman' to 'batter'? Batter is a flour mixture.
    I suppose you prefer 'bowlsman' and 'wicketkeepsman' too?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,385
    Green looking ominously set and Khawaja being Khawaja.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    That interview with Mr Sunak yesterday was toe-curling. How can anyone think he would get through an intensive General Election campaign? Who is advising him?

    The irony of Mr Seely going on TV to defend the line and being caught lieing about what he himself said on the same programme a week before is remarkable.

    So who comes out of this looking good? Penny Mordaunt - a woman who was rejected for leader due to 'culture war' issues. My oh my. With friends like the culture warriors what political party needs enemies!

    Is not one of the tells of a chronic liar, that they often find it difficult, to recall all the lies they've told?

    Whereas recollecting the truth about what one said and did, is way easier?

    Boris Johnson xMP xPM of course being THE poster poltroon for this phenomenon.
  • FF43 said:

    Sean_F said:

    FF43 said:

    Sean_F said:

    FF43 said:

    glw said:

    So apart from catastrophically bad financial regulation, an unchecked housing boom and bust, and a huge amount of poor value PFI to make UK government debt look better Gordon Brown was a pretty good Chancellor and later PM eh?

    You Brown fans are as nuts as the Tories defending Boris yesterday evening.

    You think Brown was boomier and buster in housing than Thatcher?

    Also Brown didn't introduce additional risk with his financial services regulation. He failed to address the systemic risk he inherited from his predecessors due to inadequate regulation.
    Undoubtedly. House prices rose 206% between 1997 and 2007.
    They also nearly doubled between 1982 and 1989 and then fell back much harder than 2007
    I'm talking about tripling, not doubling.
    Ah OK. Difference between nominal and real house prices.

    Point I'm making is not that Brown got this stuff right. It's that he did the same as everyone else, but for some reason people pick him out as uniquely catastrophic.
    What he did was uniquely catastrophic. Well apart from all Labour government's running out of money, that's not unique.

    Can you name any other government that oversaw house prices going from a 3x income multiple to a 7x income multiple in a few years?

    Can you name any other government that saw a budget surplus turned into a budget deficit of 3% in a few years before rather than after the next recession hits?
    The Blair and Brown governments didn't get everything right but despite facing the worst global financial crisis since WW2 they presided over lower and more stable inflation than we've seen before or since, combined with much lower unemployment than under Thatcher and Major and stronger economic growth than under the current Tory administration. Combine with real improvements in public services, real progress on poverty reduction and a historic peace deal in Northern Ireland and you can see why most fair minded observers would view it as a relatively successful period for the UK.
    "lower and more stable inflation" - unmitigated bullshit.

    So housing going from £60k in 1997 to £177k in 2010 was "low and stable inflation".

    Or do you mean low and stable inflation, if you exclude from inflation those costs that were going up?
    I mean inflation as it is usually defined - inflation in goods and services, not asset prices.
    Inflation in goods is just one type of inflation. Inflation in housing costs are another - and a pretty critical one for people who like to not be homeless.

    Unfortunately Gordon Brown decided to set only one type of inflation before all others in the Bank of England's remit, rather than a balanced overview, which resulted in unprecedentedly high runaway inflation in what wasn't getting monitored and controlled inflation on what we could import from China.

    A balanced policy would have looked at all types of inflation, not just one.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,385

    Looking increasingly likely AUS may not get there by 80 overs which could give ENG a chance with second new ball. If AUS have established batters then, then this won't help ENG but it could do if they are say 7 or 8 down with new batters.

    Am I a dinosaur for preferring 'batsman' to 'batter'? Batter is a flour mixture.
    I suppose you prefer 'bowlsman' and 'wicketkeepsman' too?
    ’Gloveman’ is a good woody sort of word.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,625

    FF43 said:

    Sean_F said:

    FF43 said:

    Sean_F said:

    FF43 said:

    glw said:

    So apart from catastrophically bad financial regulation, an unchecked housing boom and bust, and a huge amount of poor value PFI to make UK government debt look better Gordon Brown was a pretty good Chancellor and later PM eh?

    You Brown fans are as nuts as the Tories defending Boris yesterday evening.

    You think Brown was boomier and buster in housing than Thatcher?

    Also Brown didn't introduce additional risk with his financial services regulation. He failed to address the systemic risk he inherited from his predecessors due to inadequate regulation.
    Undoubtedly. House prices rose 206% between 1997 and 2007.
    They also nearly doubled between 1982 and 1989 and then fell back much harder than 2007
    I'm talking about tripling, not doubling.
    Ah OK. Difference between nominal and real house prices.

    Point I'm making is not that Brown got this stuff right. It's that he did the same as everyone else, but for some reason people pick him out as uniquely catastrophic.
    What he did was uniquely catastrophic. Well apart from all Labour government's running out of money, that's not unique.

    Can you name any other government that oversaw house prices going from a 3x income multiple to a 7x income multiple in a few years?

    Can you name any other government that saw a budget surplus turned into a budget deficit of 3% in a few years before rather than after the next recession hits?
    The Blair and Brown governments didn't get everything right but despite facing the worst global financial crisis since WW2 they presided over lower and more stable inflation than we've seen before or since, combined with much lower unemployment than under Thatcher and Major and stronger economic growth than under the current Tory administration. Combine with real improvements in public services, real progress on poverty reduction and a historic peace deal in Northern Ireland and you can see why most fair minded observers would view it as a relatively successful period for the UK.
    "lower and more stable inflation" - unmitigated bullshit.

    So housing going from £60k in 1997 to £177k in 2010 was "low and stable inflation".

    Or do you mean low and stable inflation, if you exclude from inflation those costs that were going up?
    I mean inflation as it is usually defined - inflation in goods and services, not asset prices.
    Forcing consumer inflation to be positive was one of the main reasons the benefits of globalisation were so unevently distributed.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,784
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Fuck me how do you block Dail Mail pop-ups and Notifications?

    I accidentally pressed allow, and now nothing will get rid of them. Like Japanese knotweed

    Also like Leon posts in PB of an afternoon.
    If you can tell me how to successfully get rid of Daily Mail Notifications I will promise not to comment for 72 hours. Serious offer. Driving me nuts
    If ChatGPT can tell you, you could end two threads with at one stroke.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Fuck me how do you block Dail Mail pop-ups and Notifications?

    I accidentally pressed allow, and now nothing will get rid of them. Like Japanese knotweed

    Also like Leon posts in PB of an afternoon.
    If you can tell me how to successfully get rid of Daily Mail Notifications I will promise not to comment for 72 hours. Serious offer. Driving me nuts
    Burn your phone?
    Change your entire identity at the same time.
    Should work.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587
    edited June 2023
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Fuck me how do you block Dail Mail pop-ups and Notifications?

    I accidentally pressed allow, and now nothing will get rid of them. Like Japanese knotweed

    Also like Leon posts in PB of an afternoon.
    If you can tell me how to successfully get rid of Daily Mail Notifications I will promise not to comment for 72 hours. Serious offer. Driving me nuts
    Which browser? For example, in Desktop Safari:

    Go to Safari > Settings > Websites > Notifications.

    1. Select and remove Daily Mail and others from the list.
    2. Uncheck "Allow websites to ask for notifications" for future.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,246
    FF43 said:

    Sean_F said:

    FF43 said:

    Sean_F said:

    FF43 said:

    glw said:

    So apart from catastrophically bad financial regulation, an unchecked housing boom and bust, and a huge amount of poor value PFI to make UK government debt look better Gordon Brown was a pretty good Chancellor and later PM eh?

    You Brown fans are as nuts as the Tories defending Boris yesterday evening.

    You think Brown was boomier and buster in housing than Thatcher?

    Also Brown didn't introduce additional risk with his financial services regulation. He failed to address the systemic risk he inherited from his predecessors due to inadequate regulation.
    Undoubtedly. House prices rose 206% between 1997 and 2007.
    They also nearly doubled between 1982 and 1989 and then fell back much harder than 2007
    I'm talking about tripling, not doubling.
    Ah OK. Difference between nominal and real house prices.

    Point I'm making is not that Brown got this stuff right. It's that he did the same as everyone else, but for some reason people pick him out as uniquely catastrophic.
    He started the ball rolling on screwing up our private pension system

    He also believed his own BS and massively inflated a structural deficit based on the mirage of endless taxes from the City
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,664
    edited June 2023

    Looking increasingly likely AUS may not get there by 80 overs which could give ENG a chance with second new ball. If AUS have established batters then, then this won't help ENG but it could do if they are say 7 or 8 down with new batters.

    Am I a dinosaur for preferring 'batsman' to 'batter'? Batter is a flour mixture.
    I suppose you prefer 'bowlsman' and 'wicketkeepsman' too?
    The bat is the tool, so that should maybe be ballman (not great) or gloveman (which is in use).
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,717
    To stop notification on a Mac:
    On your Mac, choose Apple menu > System Settings, then click Notifications in the sidebar. (You may need to scroll down.)
    Click an app or website on the right, then turn off Allow notifications.
    You won’t receive notifications for it until you turn on “Allow notifications” again.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    @alexwickham
    EXCLUSIVE: Rishi Sunak is facing a Cabinet row over plans to pay the EU for access to its Frontex border agency — which would be limited by Britain’s post-Brexit "third country" status

    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1671172848537280512



    So much winning...
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,246

    Muesli said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Westie said:

    Taz said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    That list in full (since 1979)

    Thatcher
    Blair
    Major
    Cameron
    May
    Brown
    Sunak
    Johnson
    Truss

    You are very kind to Cameron, who I think is the PM whose stock has fallen the most since leaving office.
    My list would be

    Blair (despite Iraq)
    Thatcher
    Major
    Brown
    May
    Sunak
    Cameron
    Johnson
    Truss
    Fun game.

    My list would be.

    Thatcher
    Cameron
    Major
    Johnson
    Blair
    Sunak
    May
    Truss
    Brown

    And yes, I wanted Johnson out before he left and would not want him back, but I'd say the same to everyone I ranked below him too.
    Truss above Brown for what reason? Colour of rosette?
    No, not colour of rosette, I put Blair ahead of Sunak, May and Truss.

    Truss ahead of Brown as she was removed before she did too much damage. She was bad, I called for her to resign before she did, but she was quickly ousted before much worse happened.

    Her Premiership was like stepping on a piece of Lego. Short and painful but quickly over.

    The legacy of Gordon Brown was far more toxic and far more long-lasting. It needed a decade of austerity to clean up his mess.
    But the toxic legacy of Gordon Brown was more due to his time as Chancellor than that of his time as PM.

    It is judging of them as PM not overall.
    Indeed, it is hard to separate the two, which is why I rated Blair down in only 5th spot, he's down-rated due to Brown's legacy as Chancellor. Had it not been for Brown as Chancellor I'd have Blair up higher.

    But Brown made matters even worse as PM. He completely botched the financial crisis by bailing out the failed banks, rather than allowing them to go bust and protecting guaranteed creditors instead like Iceland did.

    That added much more debt than was necessary to an already bad problem and completely warped the market by suggesting that firms were too big to fail and making moral hazard a major problem.
    Don't forget Brown is a war criminal who should be in the dock at the Hague alongside Blair.

    As for Cameron, in his farewell speech to the Commons he focused on the introduction of gay marriage as a major achievement of his seven years in office. He only looks good compared with the four incompetents who succeeded him. And insofar as he was on the right side of the argument about EU membership.
    Anyone who suggests either Blair or Brown is a war criminal is outing themselves as ridiculous.

    And yes, Cameron deserves massive praise for introduction of equal marriage rights. 👍
    He said it was the achievement he was most proud of. And I'll resist the obvious comment of 'from a short list' because it was an achievement and he's right to feel that way.
    Particularly against the majority of his MPs; nowadays the PM is running scared of a minority of his.
    'Dave' masked it for a while but the Tory Party seem to be uncomfortable with the modern world again. Not sure about Sunak at all. I find it hard to get a read on what he's all about. When he took over I was a bit worried he might be very good but no, he decidedly isn't. Phew.
    Yes, but sorry to break it to you, but podgy Kier will be worse. Unlike Sunak, he knows fuck all about business and he has failed (unlike Blair) to make up for that massive deficit by surrounding himself with people that do. I hope I am wrong, but I expect to see the economy improve a little on the optimism of a change of government but then for it to tank under the mismanagement of people that have even less understanding of how an economy and business works that Peppa Pig Boy and Lizzy Lightweight combined.
    In that case, let me put you out of your misery: you are wrong.

    The Shadow Chancellor worked as an economist for the Bank of England, the UK embassy in Washington DC and Halifax Bank of Scotland before entering the Commons. She also chaired the Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy Committee from 2017 to 2020. These are not the hallmarks of a wide-eyed ingenue that “knows fuck all about business”, are they?

    Wind your bloody neck in, for Pete’s sake.
    Obviously touched a nerve. As this is only your 51st post, and you clearly find it difficult to look at your own political idols with anything less than rose tinted specs I will be polite, but feel obliged to point out that it seems that it might be your neck that may be getting overdistended. And by the way, Pete really doesn't mind when I last asked him.

    Certainly compared to the average Labour politician she has more credentials here than most of her colleagues, and like Starmer, she is a huge improvement on her predecessors. Just to educate your good self though, economist does not equal business person. As I am guessing you might be a bit of an enthusiastic uncritical Labour supporter I am sure that is a revelation to you, as you probably assume they are the same. They are not.

    Starmer needs to do a lot more work with the business community. He still has time.
    Sunak's "business" career involved working as an analyst at Goldman Sachs, and later for an array of hedge funds. Now colour me skeptical but none of those enterprises involved chasing accounts receivable, juggling cashflow and harassing customers to make that order. That's my experience of a background in "business". Sunak's most informative business education was minding the chemist's shop for his mum.

    If Starmer is not already engaging with business interest groups he has no desire to become PM.
    Your criticism is valid, but it is still significantly greater than Sir Kier "when I was Director of Public Prosecutions" Starmer though n'est pas? And significantly greater than anyone on the Labour front bench unless I have missed something. Our economy requires people who don't just understand business, but understand what makes it tick. It is one of the worst aspects of our polarised system. We are about to replace one bunch who have no idea hwe a whole demographic works with another lot who are just as bad in a different direction. Maybe the LibDems are the compromise solution? (kidding)
    Tories are the party of "fuck business".
    Nah that’s the Johnson party. Nothing to we the modern inclusive Tory party under Sunak.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587
    geoffw said:

    To stop notification on a Mac:
    On your Mac, choose Apple menu > System Settings, then click Notifications in the sidebar. (You may need to scroll down.)
    Click an app or website on the right, then turn off Allow notifications.
    You won’t receive notifications for it until you turn on “Allow notifications” again.

    No, this is notifications from Safari. I think Leon is talking about notifications from websites within safari.

    But no harm turning this off too.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,246

    Muesli said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Westie said:

    Taz said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    That list in full (since 1979)

    Thatcher
    Blair
    Major
    Cameron
    May
    Brown
    Sunak
    Johnson
    Truss

    You are very kind to Cameron, who I think is the PM whose stock has fallen the most since leaving office.
    My list would be

    Blair (despite Iraq)
    Thatcher
    Major
    Brown
    May
    Sunak
    Cameron
    Johnson
    Truss
    Fun game.

    My list would be.

    Thatcher
    Cameron
    Major
    Johnson
    Blair
    Sunak
    May
    Truss
    Brown

    And yes, I wanted Johnson out before he left and would not want him back, but I'd say the same to everyone I ranked below him too.
    Truss above Brown for what reason? Colour of rosette?
    No, not colour of rosette, I put Blair ahead of Sunak, May and Truss.

    Truss ahead of Brown as she was removed before she did too much damage. She was bad, I called for her to resign before she did, but she was quickly ousted before much worse happened.

    Her Premiership was like stepping on a piece of Lego. Short and painful but quickly over.

    The legacy of Gordon Brown was far more toxic and far more long-lasting. It needed a decade of austerity to clean up his mess.
    But the toxic legacy of Gordon Brown was more due to his time as Chancellor than that of his time as PM.

    It is judging of them as PM not overall.
    Indeed, it is hard to separate the two, which is why I rated Blair down in only 5th spot, he's down-rated due to Brown's legacy as Chancellor. Had it not been for Brown as Chancellor I'd have Blair up higher.

    But Brown made matters even worse as PM. He completely botched the financial crisis by bailing out the failed banks, rather than allowing them to go bust and protecting guaranteed creditors instead like Iceland did.

    That added much more debt than was necessary to an already bad problem and completely warped the market by suggesting that firms were too big to fail and making moral hazard a major problem.
    Don't forget Brown is a war criminal who should be in the dock at the Hague alongside Blair.

    As for Cameron, in his farewell speech to the Commons he focused on the introduction of gay marriage as a major achievement of his seven years in office. He only looks good compared with the four incompetents who succeeded him. And insofar as he was on the right side of the argument about EU membership.
    Anyone who suggests either Blair or Brown is a war criminal is outing themselves as ridiculous.

    And yes, Cameron deserves massive praise for introduction of equal marriage rights. 👍
    He said it was the achievement he was most proud of. And I'll resist the obvious comment of 'from a short list' because it was an achievement and he's right to feel that way.
    Particularly against the majority of his MPs; nowadays the PM is running scared of a minority of his.
    'Dave' masked it for a while but the Tory Party seem to be uncomfortable with the modern world again. Not sure about Sunak at all. I find it hard to get a read on what he's all about. When he took over I was a bit worried he might be very good but no, he decidedly isn't. Phew.
    Yes, but sorry to break it to you, but podgy Kier will be worse. Unlike Sunak, he knows fuck all about business and he has failed (unlike Blair) to make up for that massive deficit by surrounding himself with people that do. I hope I am wrong, but I expect to see the economy improve a little on the optimism of a change of government but then for it to tank under the mismanagement of people that have even less understanding of how an economy and business works that Peppa Pig Boy and Lizzy Lightweight combined.
    In that case, let me put you out of your misery: you are wrong.

    The Shadow Chancellor worked as an economist for the Bank of England, the UK embassy in Washington DC and Halifax Bank of Scotland before entering the Commons. She also chaired the Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy Committee from 2017 to 2020. These are not the hallmarks of a wide-eyed ingenue that “knows fuck all about business”, are they?

    Wind your bloody neck in, for Pete’s sake.
    Obviously touched a nerve. As this is only your 51st post, and you clearly find it difficult to look at your own political idols with anything less than rose tinted specs I will be polite, but feel obliged to point out that it seems that it might be your neck that may be getting overdistended. And by the way, Pete really doesn't mind when I last asked him.

    Certainly compared to the average Labour politician she has more credentials here than most of her colleagues, and like Starmer, she is a huge improvement on her predecessors. Just to educate your good self though, economist does not equal business person. As I am guessing you might be a bit of an enthusiastic uncritical Labour supporter I am sure that is a revelation to you, as you probably assume they are the same. They are not.

    Starmer needs to do a lot more work with the business community. He still has time.
    Sunak's "business" career involved working as an analyst at Goldman Sachs, and later for an array of hedge funds. Now colour me skeptical but none of those enterprises involved chasing accounts receivable, juggling cashflow and harassing customers to make that order. That's my experience of a background in "business". Sunak's most informative business education was minding the chemist's shop for his mum.

    If Starmer is not already engaging with business interest groups he has no desire to become PM.
    Your criticism is valid, but it is still significantly greater than Sir Kier "when I was Director of Public Prosecutions" Starmer thought n'est pas? And significantly greater than anyone on the Labour front bench unless I have missed something. Our economy requires people who don't just understand business, but understand what makes it tick. It is one of the worst aspects of our polarised system. We are about to replace one bunch who have no idea hwe a whole demographic works with another lot who are just as bad in a different direction. Maybe the LibDems are the compromise solution? (kidding)
    It's "n'est-ce pas", by the way. Everyone forgets the "-ce"...

    Anyway, good government needs people in Parliament who understand all parts of life. For example, what about nurses? I think Parliament would be better with more MPs who had been nurses beforehand. I can imagine an MP with a nursing background being really good for the Commons!!!
    It’s UKCA these days, not ce. Do keen up.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    Scott_xP said:

    @alexwickham
    EXCLUSIVE: Rishi Sunak is facing a Cabinet row over plans to pay the EU for access to its Frontex border agency — which would be limited by Britain’s post-Brexit "third country" status

    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1671172848537280512



    So much winning...

    Before Brexit the UK was not a full member of Frontex, but it attended board meetings, took part in operations, and from 2015 didn't have to make financial contributions

    Post-Brexit, the UK accepts it will have to pay, sources say


  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    England are as doomed as Zanzibar on the morning of the 27th August 1896.
  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 882
    Leon said:

    The ex-PBer @SeanT on "AI and the end of Writing":


    "Putting on my pointy hat of pessimism, here’s how I think it will pan out. The machines will come for much academic work first – essays, PhDs, boring scholarly texts (unsurprisingly it can churn these out right now). Fanfic is instantly doomed, as are self-published novels. Next will be low-level journalism, copywriting, marketing, legalese, tech writing..."


    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/ai-is-the-end-of-writing/

    Rather embarrassingly, I feel I have the imagination of a writer but not the talent. Don't get me wrong, I like to indulge in it as a hobby but I'm never going to write anything narratively as a profession. So I thought I'd give ChatGPT a go and get it to write out a scene of a story idea I had. It was okay, it probably wrote with a greater clarity than I could, and it pulled together something pretty passable. So I get it to do another. Same result. In fact, it was too much the same. Essentially, ChatGPT kind of sucks at producing original, consistent, long-form narrative. As for a PhD thesis, it might do some of the wishy-washier Humanities but I can't see it managing the natural sciences.

    I think part of the reasons for this (or maybe I'm bad at wrangling the thing) is part of the limitations of the model. Ted Chiang wrote an excellent article about LLMs for the New Yorker.

    https://www.newyorker.com/tech/annals-of-technology/chatgpt-is-a-blurry-jpeg-of-the-web
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,993
    Big shout out to Stodge, whose outside tip of Bradsell for the King's Stand Stakes ( I got on at 33/1) brought home a nice each way win. Fingers crossed for Galeron in the next race!
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,664

    England are as doomed as Zanzibar on the morning of the 27th August 1896.

    The tea break can't come soon enough.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,874
    Afternoon all :)

    Very similar numbers from Deltapoll and occasional pollsters More In Common and it's now four polls with Labour above 45% and the Conservatives back in the mid to high 20s.

    As an example, in 2019 the Conservatives won the 65+ age group 64-17 - according to Deltapoll, they now lead 41-32 which is a 19% swing in the core age group.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,246
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Fuck me how do you block Dail Mail pop-ups and Notifications?

    I accidentally pressed allow, and now nothing will get rid of them. Like Japanese knotweed

    Also like Leon posts in PB of an afternoon.
    If you can tell me how to successfully get rid of Daily Mail Notifications I will promise not to comment for 72 hours. Serious offer. Driving me nuts
    Browser settings / notifications
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,892
    Leon said:

    The ex-PBer @SeanT on "AI and the end of Writing":


    "Putting on my pointy hat of pessimism, here’s how I think it will pan out. The machines will come for much academic work first – essays, PhDs, boring scholarly texts (unsurprisingly it can churn these out right now). Fanfic is instantly doomed, as are self-published novels. Next will be low-level journalism, copywriting, marketing, legalese, tech writing..."


    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/ai-is-the-end-of-writing/

    Written porn (if that is still a thing). Rewritten journalism: most papers no longer have armies of reporters but rely on press agencies and press releases which can now be rewritten in the house style. And speaking of journalism, automatically trawling for social media reactions to television programmes or events.

    Storytelling in print or onscreen: turning an idea (prompt) into a first draft to be polished and gagged up by humans. Maybe also first drafts of translations to be smoothed over by native speakers.

    Tech writing might survive, as it is often tech writers who write the training material for the AI models. ChatGPT can't write the manual for Microsoft Squirrels until it has been trained on the human-written manuals and guides.

    But mainly AI will open up this sort of expertise to those who could not afford it. The ones who lose out will be those at the bottom.

  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587

    Scott_xP said:

    @alexwickham
    EXCLUSIVE: Rishi Sunak is facing a Cabinet row over plans to pay the EU for access to its Frontex border agency — which would be limited by Britain’s post-Brexit "third country" status

    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1671172848537280512



    So much winning...

    Before Brexit the UK was not a full member of Frontex, but it attended board meetings, took part in operations, and from 2015 didn't have to make financial contributions

    Post-Brexit, the UK accepts it will have to pay, sources say


    We were net contributors, of course we were paying.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639

    England are as doomed as Zanzibar on the morning of the 27th August 1896.

    The tea break can't come soon enough.
    Correct. Tea has come at a good time for England. We are still in it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,385

    England are as doomed as Zanzibar on the morning of the 27th August 1896.

    The tea break can't come soon enough.
    Correct. Tea has come at a good time for England. We are still in it.
    If we don’t break this partnership quick sharp after the break we won’t be for long.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,652
    The Australians have worked out that the best way to play against Bazball is not to get sucked into it. They've managed this test really well up to now. They have always had a response.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    ydoethur said:

    England are as doomed as Zanzibar on the morning of the 27th August 1896.

    The tea break can't come soon enough.
    Correct. Tea has come at a good time for England. We are still in it.
    If we don’t break this partnership quick sharp after the break we won’t be for long.
    This is also correct.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    ydoethur said:

    England are as doomed as Zanzibar on the morning of the 27th August 1896.

    The tea break can't come soon enough.
    Correct. Tea has come at a good time for England. We are still in it.
    If we don’t break this partnership quick sharp after the break we won’t be for long.
    Do we need to get Eagles to start commenting, on how Usman Khawaja is the best thing ever exported from Pakistan to Australia?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    England are as doomed as Zanzibar on the morning of the 27th August 1896.

    The tea break can't come soon enough.
    Correct. Tea has come at a good time for England. We are still in it.
    If we don’t break this partnership quick sharp after the break we won’t be for long.
    Do we need to get Eagles to start commenting, on how Usman Khawaja is the best thing ever exported from Pakistan to Australia?
    I've spent the last 20 mins in the bathroom to try and induce a wicket.

    I did this in the 2005 Edgbaston test, my contribution to England's Ashes victory has been criminally neglected.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    England are as doomed as Zanzibar on the morning of the 27th August 1896.

    The tea break can't come soon enough.
    Correct. Tea has come at a good time for England. We are still in it.
    If we don’t break this partnership quick sharp after the break we won’t be for long.
    Do we need to get Eagles to start commenting, on how Usman Khawaja is the best thing ever exported from Pakistan to Australia?
    I've spent the last 20 mins in the bathroom to try and induce a wicket.

    I did this in the 2005 Edgbaston test, my contribution to England's Ashes victory has been criminally neglected.
    Do I need to drive to Cardiff? I was on my way to the Charity Community Shield.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,892
    Palantir's deals with NHS England top £60M – without competition
    Latest £24.9M 'transition' contract an attempt to bridge gap to contract UK.gov is due to award in September

    https://www.theregister.com/2023/06/20/palantir_nhs_england_deal/
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    England are as doomed as Zanzibar on the morning of the 27th August 1896.

    The tea break can't come soon enough.
    Correct. Tea has come at a good time for England. We are still in it.
    If we don’t break this partnership quick sharp after the break we won’t be for long.
    Do we need to get Eagles to start commenting, on how Usman Khawaja is the best thing ever exported from Pakistan to Australia?
    I've spent the last 20 mins in the bathroom to try and induce a wicket.

    I did this in the 2005 Edgbaston test, my contribution to England's Ashes victory has been criminally neglected.
    In jest you project your future though.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    England are as doomed as Zanzibar on the morning of the 27th August 1896.

    The tea break can't come soon enough.
    Correct. Tea has come at a good time for England. We are still in it.
    If we don’t break this partnership quick sharp after the break we won’t be for long.
    Do we need to get Eagles to start commenting, on how Usman Khawaja is the best thing ever exported from Pakistan to Australia?
    I've spent the last 20 mins in the bathroom to try and induce a wicket.

    I did this in the 2005 Edgbaston test, my contribution to England's Ashes victory has been criminally neglected.
    Do I need to drive to Cardiff? I was on my way to the Charity Community Shield.
    Every little helps.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    I've given up on the Test as an inevitable loss.

    In the meantime, note that the federal attorney investigating Hunter Biden was appointed by Trump (and left in place by the President Biden). And the plea deal for a first time tax offender who has paid off what he owes is, if anything, on the harsh side.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    What madness is this? I have just come on to PB this pm to find that the lunatics have taken over and it is now obligatory to call batsmen "batters".

    A bit like Sam Smith calling fishermen "fisherthem".
  • pingping Posts: 3,805

    FF43 said:

    Sean_F said:

    FF43 said:

    Sean_F said:

    FF43 said:

    glw said:

    So apart from catastrophically bad financial regulation, an unchecked housing boom and bust, and a huge amount of poor value PFI to make UK government debt look better Gordon Brown was a pretty good Chancellor and later PM eh?

    You Brown fans are as nuts as the Tories defending Boris yesterday evening.

    You think Brown was boomier and buster in housing than Thatcher?

    Also Brown didn't introduce additional risk with his financial services regulation. He failed to address the systemic risk he inherited from his predecessors due to inadequate regulation.
    Undoubtedly. House prices rose 206% between 1997 and 2007.
    They also nearly doubled between 1982 and 1989 and then fell back much harder than 2007
    I'm talking about tripling, not doubling.
    Ah OK. Difference between nominal and real house prices.

    Point I'm making is not that Brown got this stuff right. It's that he did the same as everyone else, but for some reason people pick him out as uniquely catastrophic.
    What he did was uniquely catastrophic. Well apart from all Labour government's running out of money, that's not unique.

    Can you name any other government that oversaw house prices going from a 3x income multiple to a 7x income multiple in a few years?

    Can you name any other government that saw a budget surplus turned into a budget deficit of 3% in a few years before rather than after the next recession hits?
    The Blair and Brown governments didn't get everything right but despite facing the worst global financial crisis since WW2 they presided over lower and more stable inflation than we've seen before or since, combined with much lower unemployment than under Thatcher and Major and stronger economic growth than under the current Tory administration. Combine with real improvements in public services, real progress on poverty reduction and a historic peace deal in Northern Ireland and you can see why most fair minded observers would view it as a relatively successful period for the UK.
    "lower and more stable inflation" - unmitigated bullshit.

    So housing going from £60k in 1997 to £177k in 2010 was "low and stable inflation".

    Or do you mean low and stable inflation, if you exclude from inflation those costs that were going up?
    I mean inflation as it is usually defined - inflation in goods and services, not asset prices.
    Forcing consumer inflation to be positive was one of the main reasons the benefits of globalisation were so unevently distributed.
    That’s a really interesting point.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Off topic and a question for BJO.

    Why has "Big Dave" left Sheffield Wednesday by mutual consent after securing promotion?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    TOPPING said:

    What madness is this? I have just come on to PB this pm to find that the lunatics have taken over and it is now obligatory to call batsmen "batters".

    A bit like Sam Smith calling fishermen "fisherthem".

    Don’t forget “Michael Atherton, down at 3rd…”
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    edited June 2023

    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    England are as doomed as Zanzibar on the morning of the 27th August 1896.

    The tea break can't come soon enough.
    Correct. Tea has come at a good time for England. We are still in it.
    If we don’t break this partnership quick sharp after the break we won’t be for long.
    Do we need to get Eagles to start commenting, on how Usman Khawaja is the best thing ever exported from Pakistan to Australia?
    I've spent the last 20 mins in the bathroom to try and induce a wicket.

    I did this in the 2005 Edgbaston test, my contribution to England's Ashes victory has been criminally neglected.
    Do I need to drive to Cardiff? I was on my way to the Charity Community Shield.
    Every little helps.
    Drive to Tesco?
  • MuesliMuesli Posts: 202

    Off topic and a question for BJO.

    Why has "Big Dave" left Sheffield Wednesday by mutual consent after securing promotion?

    Dejphon Chansiri fans, please explain.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    Leon said:

    Fuck me how do you block Dail Mail pop-ups and Notifications?

    I accidentally pressed allow, and now nothing will get rid of them. Like Japanese knotweed

    Go to settings in computer/phone, the apps, management , find the app and you can block em!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Muesli said:

    Off topic and a question for BJO.

    Why has "Big Dave" left Sheffield Wednesday by mutual consent after securing promotion?

    Dejphon Chansiri fans, please explain.
    I believe he speaks very highly of SKS.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Unpopular said:

    Leon said:

    The ex-PBer @SeanT on "AI and the end of Writing":


    "Putting on my pointy hat of pessimism, here’s how I think it will pan out. The machines will come for much academic work first – essays, PhDs, boring scholarly texts (unsurprisingly it can churn these out right now). Fanfic is instantly doomed, as are self-published novels. Next will be low-level journalism, copywriting, marketing, legalese, tech writing..."


    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/ai-is-the-end-of-writing/

    Rather embarrassingly, I feel I have the imagination of a writer but not the talent. Don't get me wrong, I like to indulge in it as a hobby but I'm never going to write anything narratively as a profession. So I thought I'd give ChatGPT a go and get it to write out a scene of a story idea I had. It was okay, it probably wrote with a greater clarity than I could, and it pulled together something pretty passable. So I get it to do another. Same result. In fact, it was too much the same. Essentially, ChatGPT kind of sucks at producing original, consistent, long-form narrative. As for a PhD thesis, it might do some of the wishy-washier Humanities but I can't see it managing the natural sciences.

    I think part of the reasons for this (or maybe I'm bad at wrangling the thing) is part of the limitations of the model. Ted Chiang wrote an excellent article about LLMs for the New Yorker.

    https://www.newyorker.com/tech/annals-of-technology/chatgpt-is-a-blurry-jpeg-of-the-web
    That's largely because they've put hefty guardrails on ChatGPT (and its cousins) because they are so scared of it being racist, wrong, transphobic etc

    It's like asking a great athlete hung with heavy iron shackles to run a fast 100m. The capability is there, but with the shackles on? No

    Once we get these models out in the public domaon, entirely unshackled (and it will happen eventually), then I reckon you will see amazing things
  • DoubleCarpetDoubleCarpet Posts: 888
    Nigelb said:

    I've given up on the Test as an inevitable loss.

    In the meantime, note that the federal attorney investigating Hunter Biden was appointed by Trump (and left in place by the President Biden). And the plea deal for a first time tax offender who has paid off what he owes is, if anything, on the harsh side.

    Still 51% return on Betfair for Aus to win...
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075

    Leon said:

    Hopefully this eventually means we get rid of shite columnists like Peter Hitchens and Sean Thomas.

    Germany’s Bild tabloid, the biggest-selling newspaper in Europe, is to replace a range of editorial jobs with artificial intelligence as part of a €100m costcutting programme expected to lead to hundreds of redundancies.

    The newspaper would “unfortunately be parting ways with colleagues who have tasks that in the digital world are performed by AI and/or automated processes”, its owner, Europe’s largest media publisher, Axel Springer SE, said in an email to staff.

    It said the roles of “editors, print production staff, subeditors, proofreaders and photo editors will no longer exist as they do today”, according to the email, seen by the rival Frankfurter Allgemeine newspaper (FAZ).


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/20/german-tabloid-bild-to-replace-range-of-editorial-jobs-with-ai

    Ahem, as I predicted

    Unfortanately
    AI will never replace me on PB.

    AI will commit suicide when OGH informs it he is going on holiday.
    AI doesn't have the dress sense for the job anyway.
    Because, as any fule kno, the computer wore tennis shoes... :)
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    Australia are going to cruise home from here.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    England are as doomed as Zanzibar on the morning of the 27th August 1896.

    The tea break can't come soon enough.
    Correct. Tea has come at a good time for England. We are still in it.
    If we don’t break this partnership quick sharp after the break we won’t be for long.
    Do we need to get Eagles to start commenting, on how Usman Khawaja is the best thing ever exported from Pakistan to Australia?
    I've spent the last 20 mins in the bathroom to try and induce a wicket.

    I did this in the 2005 Edgbaston test, my contribution to England's Ashes victory has been criminally neglected.
    Is that first sentence some sort of analogy?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663

    Australia are going to cruise home from here.

    Well, I tried.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    felix said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    England are as doomed as Zanzibar on the morning of the 27th August 1896.

    The tea break can't come soon enough.
    Correct. Tea has come at a good time for England. We are still in it.
    If we don’t break this partnership quick sharp after the break we won’t be for long.
    Do we need to get Eagles to start commenting, on how Usman Khawaja is the best thing ever exported from Pakistan to Australia?
    I've spent the last 20 mins in the bathroom to try and induce a wicket.

    I did this in the 2005 Edgbaston test, my contribution to England's Ashes victory has been criminally neglected.
    Is that first sentence some sort of analogy?
    Sticky wicket?

    More used to the 'launching the Queen Mary*' idiom myself.

    (*Titanic if it sinks)
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,813

    Australia are going to cruise home from here.

    you could very well argue England lost it by their pointless declaration or indeed the number of no-balls bowled
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    Farooq said:

    TOPPING said:

    What madness is this? I have just come on to PB this pm to find that the lunatics have taken over and it is now obligatory to call batsmen "batters".

    A bit like Sam Smith calling fishermen "fisherthem".

    TSE has spent the last 20 mins in the bathroom to try and induce a wicket, and now PB is covered with batter?

    There's something wrong with you people.
    One has to find ways to make the most tedious "sport" in the world at least a mite interesting...
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    edited June 2023
    Leon said:

    Unpopular said:

    Leon said:

    The ex-PBer @SeanT on "AI and the end of Writing":


    "Putting on my pointy hat of pessimism, here’s how I think it will pan out. The machines will come for much academic work first – essays, PhDs, boring scholarly texts (unsurprisingly it can churn these out right now). Fanfic is instantly doomed, as are self-published novels. Next will be low-level journalism, copywriting, marketing, legalese, tech writing..."


    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/ai-is-the-end-of-writing/

    Rather embarrassingly, I feel I have the imagination of a writer but not the talent. Don't get me wrong, I like to indulge in it as a hobby but I'm never going to write anything narratively as a profession. So I thought I'd give ChatGPT a go and get it to write out a scene of a story idea I had. It was okay, it probably wrote with a greater clarity than I could, and it pulled together something pretty passable. So I get it to do another. Same result. In fact, it was too much the same. Essentially, ChatGPT kind of sucks at producing original, consistent, long-form narrative. As for a PhD thesis, it might do some of the wishy-washier Humanities but I can't see it managing the natural sciences.

    I think part of the reasons for this (or maybe I'm bad at wrangling the thing) is part of the limitations of the model. Ted Chiang wrote an excellent article about LLMs for the New Yorker.

    https://www.newyorker.com/tech/annals-of-technology/chatgpt-is-a-blurry-jpeg-of-the-web
    That's largely because they've put hefty guardrails on ChatGPT (and its cousins) because they are so scared of it being racist, wrong, transphobic etc

    It's like asking a great athlete hung with heavy iron shackles to run a fast 100m. The capability is there, but with the shackles on? No

    Once we get these models out in the public domaon, entirely unshackled (and it will happen eventually), then I reckon you will see amazing things
    I don't think novels (self-published or otherwise) are in danger. That is the art produced by a human mind.

    AI-written novels will be the same genus of art as abstract expressionism, or rather action painting. It will be the person who sets the pendulum (or paint can, or theme of the AI piece) in motion and the created art will be interesting because of the plasticity, not the content.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    edited June 2023
    Labour finished third in these seats in 2019.

    Labour leads by 7% in the Blue Wall, the largest lead for Labour in these seats since 26 March.

    Blue Wall VI (17-18 June):

    Labour 38% (+4)
    Conservative 31% (+1)
    Liberal Democrat 22% (-4)
    Reform UK 5% (–)
    Green 4% (-1)
    Other 0% (-1)

    Changes +/- 4 June


    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1671186150403489792
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075

    I've spent the last 20 mins in the bathroom to try and induce a wicket. I did this in the 2005 Edgbaston test, my contribution to England's Ashes victory has been criminally neglected.

    I think "cigar" or "toilet otter" are other euphemisms, as I've never heard "wicket" used that way before. I find senna or - even better - apple juice works best, as for me it usually ends with a [that's enough - Ed].

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663

    Australia are going to cruise home from here.

    Well, I tried.
    Better late than never!
This discussion has been closed.