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Sunak’s position has got stronger during the week – politicalbetting.com

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  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,983
    The dullest Any Questions I've heard.

    The only brief applause was for a panellist who said 'I don't think any children should go starving in this country'
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,914
    edited June 2023
    WillG said:

    So by supporting England in the cricket, has Sunak just blown it with the fabled "Hindu Vote" in Uxbridge?

    Its a fairly horrible slur to suggest British Hindus don't support England.
    What a dumb statement, some do some don't. Like I said earlier, English by birth and I can't stand the England Rugby Team, particularly against Wales It has nothing to do with patriotism which brings us back to Collins's ill- judged and poor taste post re: Tebbit.

    Of course racist tropes when executed by Boris Johnson can be categorised as satire, by anyone else and it's racism.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,167
    glw said:

    RobD said:

    Actually, the fact that Sunak feels the need to publicly demonstrate that he passes the Tebbit Test is rather depressing.

    Why? It’s a common trope for politicians.
    Exactly. "Look voters, here I am enjoying a beer whilst watching the association football, just like you!"
    ‘I’m a huge fan of the soccer’
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,416
    slade said:

    Long term PBers may like to know that Mrs B has been awarded the MBE for public and political services.

    I think I've worked out who it is. When you say "Mrs B", are you referring to a PBer or the partner of a PBer?
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761

    WillG said:

    So by supporting England in the cricket, has Sunak just blown it with the fabled "Hindu Vote" in Uxbridge?

    Its a fairly horrible slur to suggest British Hindus don't support England.
    What a dumb statement, some do some don't. Like I said earlier, English by birth and I can't stand the England Rugby Team, particularly against Wales It has nothing to do with patriotism which brings us back to Collins's ill- judged and poor taste post re: Tebbit.

    Of course racist tropes when executed by Boris Johnson can be categorised as satire, by anyone else and it's racism.
    It’s odd the crossover that conclude Collins is racist and who supported Johnson
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    WillG said:

    So by supporting England in the cricket, has Sunak just blown it with the fabled "Hindu Vote" in Uxbridge?

    Its a fairly horrible slur to suggest British Hindus don't support England.
    What a dumb statement, some do some don't. Like I said earlier, English by birth and I can't stand the England Rugby Team, particularly against Wales It has nothing to do with patriotism which brings us back to Collins's ill- judged and poor taste post re: Tebbit.

    Of course racist tropes when executed by Boris Johnson can be categorised as satire, by anyone else and it's racism.
    The idea that Sunak would lose votes over supporting England definitely suggests that those people whose votes he lost have an animosity against England and our national teams. The Tebbit test is a fairly good one to test full integration.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    WillG said:

    So by supporting England in the cricket, has Sunak just blown it with the fabled "Hindu Vote" in Uxbridge?

    Its a fairly horrible slur to suggest British Hindus don't support England.
    What a dumb statement, some do some don't. Like I said earlier, English by birth and I can't stand the England Rugby Team, particularly against Wales It has nothing to do with patriotism which brings us back to Collins's ill- judged and poor taste post re: Tebbit.

    Of course racist tropes when executed by Boris Johnson can be categorised as satire, by anyone else and it's racism.
    It’s odd the crossover that conclude Collins is racist and who supported Johnson
    I of course opposed Johnson, so its a rather stupid point to bring up.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,915


    Theresa May could have lead a compromise Brexit

    I don't think she could have.

    1. It's not in her nature to reach out to others and bring people together. She simply doesn't have the people skills, and she showed that she prefers to plan in private before revealing those plans in public - hence "Brexit means Brexit."

    2. She was a Remainer in the referendum campaign and so would have struggled to convince Leavers to accept a compromise.

    Gove may have been the only politician capable of leading a compromise Brexit, or perhaps Cameron, had he campaigned for Leave and led Britain out of the EU.
    Factor in Johnson's ego, though. If not-Boris (they're all the same to him) was Prime Minister, and there was any space at all for Johnson to destabilise them by shouting "NOT A PROPER BREXIT", he would have done so. Heck, he did it to May and the May plan was objectively at the harder end of possible Brexits.

    "Govey and I go back a long way, and he was right to see the wisdom of Brexit before even I did. But sadly, he's been captured by the Westminster blob. Come on Mikey, it's time to remember your convictions (continued page 94)..."

    Johnson could have done it, because it would have needed utter shamelessness and an assurance that Johnson wouldn't attack you for it. Unfortuately, he was too busy enjoying the big house and outsourced all his thinking to scruffy Mekon. Remember? Had funny views about eye tests.
    I thought of suggesting Johnson could have done it, but I don't think he would ever have thought it was necessary or worth the trouble. If he'd been prepared to outsource all the decision-making to Gove, and just be his frontman, then that may have worked, but ultimately Johnson's ego (as you point out) wouldn't have allowed that either.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,903

    Rishi Sunak is the Mark Ramprakash of politics. Should be a good performer on paper, but struggles to get out of the 20s.

    I'm not sure that Rishi Sunak could do a samba roll to match Ramps's (my wife still gets weak-kneed thinking about it).
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    So by supporting England in the cricket, has Sunak just blown it with the fabled "Hindu Vote" in Uxbridge?

    Its a fairly horrible slur to suggest British Hindus don't support England.
    What a dumb statement, some do some don't. Like I said earlier, English by birth and I can't stand the England Rugby Team, particularly against Wales It has nothing to do with patriotism which brings us back to Collins's ill- judged and poor taste post re: Tebbit.

    Of course racist tropes when executed by Boris Johnson can be categorised as satire, by anyone else and it's racism.
    It’s odd the crossover that conclude Collins is racist and who supported Johnson
    I of course opposed Johnson, so its a rather stupid point to bring up.
    It’s not all about you, at least you’re consistent
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,869
    Dura_Ace said:

    boulay said:

    Roger said:

    MaxPB said:



    Starmer needs to sack Collins for being a racist piece of shit.

    Really? It's a pity he feels he has to be so predictable. If there's one thing above all others that makes Sunak so boring and unimaginative it's his predictability. I'd be delighted if he'd go against type just once. Maybe he could even find himself a working class friend. The best advice I was given when I first became a photographer was to zig when everyone else zagged.
    Maybe he just really likes cricket?
    Sunak pretending (badly) to feign enthusiasm for various sports provides some of the few moments of levity in the otherwise bleak hellscape of this dying and incompetent governement.


    He is just feigning it. Pretending to feign it would mean he was actually an enthusiast.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,903
    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    So by supporting England in the cricket, has Sunak just blown it with the fabled "Hindu Vote" in Uxbridge?

    Its a fairly horrible slur to suggest British Hindus don't support England.
    What a dumb statement, some do some don't. Like I said earlier, English by birth and I can't stand the England Rugby Team, particularly against Wales It has nothing to do with patriotism which brings us back to Collins's ill- judged and poor taste post re: Tebbit.

    Of course racist tropes when executed by Boris Johnson can be categorised as satire, by anyone else and it's racism.
    The idea that Sunak would lose votes over supporting England definitely suggests that those people whose votes he lost have an animosity against England and our national teams. The Tebbit test is a fairly good one to test full integration.
    The Tebbit test is a dumb racist piece of nonsense for the hard-of-thinking.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,263
    I was just getting ready to say that Moeen was starting to lose it for England.
    I shall keep on thinking that.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,167
    Slightly mystified as to what attracted the mini Hitler to Elgin. Maybe Douglas Ross’s anti gypsy patter
    got his antennae twitching?



  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    Dura_Ace said:

    boulay said:

    Roger said:

    MaxPB said:



    Starmer needs to sack Collins for being a racist piece of shit.

    Really? It's a pity he feels he has to be so predictable. If there's one thing above all others that makes Sunak so boring and unimaginative it's his predictability. I'd be delighted if he'd go against type just once. Maybe he could even find himself a working class friend. The best advice I was given when I first became a photographer was to zig when everyone else zagged.
    Maybe he just really likes cricket?
    Sunak pretending (badly) to feign enthusiasm for various sports provides some of the few moments of levity in the otherwise bleak hellscape of this dying and incompetent governement.


    He is just feigning it. Pretending to feign it would mean he was actually an enthusiast.
    He isn't feigning anyway. Everything I have seen about Sunak shows to me he is completely culturally English in identity and culture. I am not surprised at all he likes football and the England national team.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,035
    edited June 2023
    Great catch!
    Taking Head is better than giving head.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,903

    Slightly mystified as to what attracted the mini Hitler to Elgin. Maybe Douglas Ross’s anti gypsy patter
    got his antennae twitching?



    Maybe he's lost his marbles and thought that Elgin might have some going spare.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,915
    edited June 2023

    Dura_Ace said:

    boulay said:

    Roger said:

    MaxPB said:



    Starmer needs to sack Collins for being a racist piece of shit.

    Really? It's a pity he feels he has to be so predictable. If there's one thing above all others that makes Sunak so boring and unimaginative it's his predictability. I'd be delighted if he'd go against type just once. Maybe he could even find himself a working class friend. The best advice I was given when I first became a photographer was to zig when everyone else zagged.
    Maybe he just really likes cricket?
    Sunak pretending (badly) to feign enthusiasm for various sports provides some of the few moments of levity in the otherwise bleak hellscape of this dying and incompetent governement.


    He is just feigning it. Pretending to feign it would mean he was actually an enthusiast.
    Could be a double-bluff. Like, he might be an enormous sports stats nerd, but he reckons that letting the public see that genuine side of him would potentially be more damaging than pretending he's a normal politician awkwardly trying to pretend that he has any interest in sport.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,691
    ohnotnow said:

    Nigelb said:

    Surely it's the last Labour Government that is to blame for the incoming recession.

    The bizarre “thing” about our system is this notion the BOE is prepared to tip the economy in to a recession curb inflation. How is that a sane / logical way forward?
    That’s pretty well every central bank in a western economy.
    There’s no good way to bring down inflation once it’s taken hold.
    As someone was (rightly, because he didn't spell out the consequences) pilloried for saying

    "wages would go up, but that's not necessarily a good thing."

    There's not much point in increasing wages if it drives prices higher faster, which was starting to happen before Ukraine even kicked off.

    There's not much point in increasing wages if your screwed up housing market sets the cost of housing at "every penny you can afford plus a bit more". The extra pay will just flow to rentiers.

    Part of the trouble is that we have a governing class who only know the painful fight to tame the Lawson inflationary bubble as a folk memory.
    Can you name a sector that has had a real term wage rise over the last two years?
    Does the 'FTSE CEO' sector count?
    No. Lizards don't count!
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    So by supporting England in the cricket, has Sunak just blown it with the fabled "Hindu Vote" in Uxbridge?

    Its a fairly horrible slur to suggest British Hindus don't support England.
    What a dumb statement, some do some don't. Like I said earlier, English by birth and I can't stand the England Rugby Team, particularly against Wales It has nothing to do with patriotism which brings us back to Collins's ill- judged and poor taste post re: Tebbit.

    Of course racist tropes when executed by Boris Johnson can be categorised as satire, by anyone else and it's racism.
    The idea that Sunak would lose votes over supporting England definitely suggests that those people whose votes he lost have an animosity against England and our national teams. The Tebbit test is a fairly good one to test full integration.
    The Tebbit test is a dumb racist piece of nonsense for the hard-of-thinking.
    Nah, the hard of thinking struggle with the difference between race and national identity. The Tebbit test applies equally to Pakistani, Irish or Australian immigrants. National identity is at heart an emotional, instinctive thing. Given sporting support is an emotional, instinctive thing, it reveals base loyalties. It is not a surprise the correlation between those that support a foreign nation and those Remainers who express constant cultural cringe about the UK vs the EU.
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    WillG said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    boulay said:

    Roger said:

    MaxPB said:



    Starmer needs to sack Collins for being a racist piece of shit.

    Really? It's a pity he feels he has to be so predictable. If there's one thing above all others that makes Sunak so boring and unimaginative it's his predictability. I'd be delighted if he'd go against type just once. Maybe he could even find himself a working class friend. The best advice I was given when I first became a photographer was to zig when everyone else zagged.
    Maybe he just really likes cricket?
    Sunak pretending (badly) to feign enthusiasm for various sports provides some of the few moments of levity in the otherwise bleak hellscape of this dying and incompetent governement.


    He is just feigning it. Pretending to feign it would mean he was actually an enthusiast.
    He isn't feigning anyway. Everything I have seen about Sunak shows to me he is completely culturally English in identity and culture. I am not surprised at all he likes football and the England national team.
    Spot on
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,069
    Foakes would have caught that...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,772
    Foakes would have got that stumping…
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,208
    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    So by supporting England in the cricket, has Sunak just blown it with the fabled "Hindu Vote" in Uxbridge?

    Its a fairly horrible slur to suggest British Hindus don't support England.
    What a dumb statement, some do some don't. Like I said earlier, English by birth and I can't stand the England Rugby Team, particularly against Wales It has nothing to do with patriotism which brings us back to Collins's ill- judged and poor taste post re: Tebbit.

    Of course racist tropes when executed by Boris Johnson can be categorised as satire, by anyone else and it's racism.
    The idea that Sunak would lose votes over supporting England definitely suggests that those people whose votes he lost have an animosity against England and our national teams. The Tebbit test is a fairly good one to test full integration.
    The Tebbit test is a dumb racist piece of nonsense for the hard-of-thinking.
    Nah, the hard of thinking struggle with the difference between race and national identity. The Tebbit test applies equally to Pakistani, Irish or Australian immigrants. National identity is at heart an emotional, instinctive thing. Given sporting support is an emotional, instinctive thing, it reveals base loyalties. It is not a surprise the correlation between those that support a foreign nation and those Remainers who express constant cultural cringe about the UK vs the EU.
    No the hard of thinking (or outright nationalist extremists) are too immature to understand the simple idea that people have multiple identities, and different ones are more important in different contexts.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,149
    I see your bore-fest cricket match and raise you the concert at Twickenham tonight!

    Laters peeps! :sunglasses:
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,903
    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    So by supporting England in the cricket, has Sunak just blown it with the fabled "Hindu Vote" in Uxbridge?

    Its a fairly horrible slur to suggest British Hindus don't support England.
    What a dumb statement, some do some don't. Like I said earlier, English by birth and I can't stand the England Rugby Team, particularly against Wales It has nothing to do with patriotism which brings us back to Collins's ill- judged and poor taste post re: Tebbit.

    Of course racist tropes when executed by Boris Johnson can be categorised as satire, by anyone else and it's racism.
    The idea that Sunak would lose votes over supporting England definitely suggests that those people whose votes he lost have an animosity against England and our national teams. The Tebbit test is a fairly good one to test full integration.
    The Tebbit test is a dumb racist piece of nonsense for the hard-of-thinking.
    Nah, the hard of thinking struggle with the difference between race and national identity. The Tebbit test applies equally to Pakistani, Irish or Australian immigrants. National identity is at heart an emotional, instinctive thing. Given sporting support is an emotional, instinctive thing, it reveals base loyalties. It is not a surprise the correlation between those that support a foreign nation and those Remainers who express constant cultural cringe about the UK vs the EU.
    No it's idiotic because it's entirely possible to be and feel completely British but support a different sports team for whatever reason, be it loyalty to your parent's heritage or whatever. It's got fuck all to do with Brexit, too BTW, not sure why you want to shoehorn that in.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,152

    Ben Stokes, I want to have your babies.

    Are you being oppressed?
    All the time.

    I’m from multiple minorities.

    Non white, privately educated for starters.

    My natural modesty also sees me oppressed.
    And then someone tells you you can’t have babies…
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    kamski said:

    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    So by supporting England in the cricket, has Sunak just blown it with the fabled "Hindu Vote" in Uxbridge?

    Its a fairly horrible slur to suggest British Hindus don't support England.
    What a dumb statement, some do some don't. Like I said earlier, English by birth and I can't stand the England Rugby Team, particularly against Wales It has nothing to do with patriotism which brings us back to Collins's ill- judged and poor taste post re: Tebbit.

    Of course racist tropes when executed by Boris Johnson can be categorised as satire, by anyone else and it's racism.
    The idea that Sunak would lose votes over supporting England definitely suggests that those people whose votes he lost have an animosity against England and our national teams. The Tebbit test is a fairly good one to test full integration.
    The Tebbit test is a dumb racist piece of nonsense for the hard-of-thinking.
    Nah, the hard of thinking struggle with the difference between race and national identity. The Tebbit test applies equally to Pakistani, Irish or Australian immigrants. National identity is at heart an emotional, instinctive thing. Given sporting support is an emotional, instinctive thing, it reveals base loyalties. It is not a surprise the correlation between those that support a foreign nation and those Remainers who express constant cultural cringe about the UK vs the EU.
    No the hard of thinking (or outright nationalist extremists) are too immature to understand the simple idea that people have multiple identities, and different ones are more important in different contexts.
    Having multiple identities generally means supporting both, not backing the foreign identity over the one of the country you are born and raised in, in whatever context.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,069
    ydoethur said:

    Foakes would have got that stumping…

    That's what I meant. But Bairstow should still be in the team though.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,152

    ...

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Rishi Sunak is the Mark Ramprakash of politics. Should be a good performer on paper, but struggles to get out of the 20s.

    But who also enjoyed an exceptionally long first class career?
    Not the only player to be exposed at the highest level. Many, many England players over the years have been tried and not quite been good enough. In recent times Rory Burns would be a good example. Back further Graham Hick.

    Its also notable to see who Ramps played - mostly Australia and the WI, when both have excellent attacks.
    Ramprakash and Hick both had their test debuts in the same game, although I think you could argue that Hick's test performance improved more than Ramprakash's.
    There was a lot of nonsense around Graeme Hick's eligibility status, so whilst he was at the top of his game at New Road he was ineligible for England and for years. I believe there was more to it than that, I don't think Hick fitted into the England set up and Ray Illingwirth didn't rate him or like him.
    I recall the Test where Devon Malcolm got more runs than Hick against the West Indies
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398

    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    So by supporting England in the cricket, has Sunak just blown it with the fabled "Hindu Vote" in Uxbridge?

    Its a fairly horrible slur to suggest British Hindus don't support England.
    What a dumb statement, some do some don't. Like I said earlier, English by birth and I can't stand the England Rugby Team, particularly against Wales It has nothing to do with patriotism which brings us back to Collins's ill- judged and poor taste post re: Tebbit.

    Of course racist tropes when executed by Boris Johnson can be categorised as satire, by anyone else and it's racism.
    The idea that Sunak would lose votes over supporting England definitely suggests that those people whose votes he lost have an animosity against England and our national teams. The Tebbit test is a fairly good one to test full integration.
    The Tebbit test is a dumb racist piece of nonsense for the hard-of-thinking.
    Nah, the hard of thinking struggle with the difference between race and national identity. The Tebbit test applies equally to Pakistani, Irish or Australian immigrants. National identity is at heart an emotional, instinctive thing. Given sporting support is an emotional, instinctive thing, it reveals base loyalties. It is not a surprise the correlation between those that support a foreign nation and those Remainers who express constant cultural cringe about the UK vs the EU.
    No it's idiotic because it's entirely possible to be and feel completely British but support a different sports team for whatever reason, be it loyalty to your parent's heritage or whatever. It's got fuck all to do with Brexit, too BTW, not sure why you want to shoehorn that in.
    Unlike lots of other countries we recognise dual nationals - so we don't really ask people to choose a main loyalty.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,035

    WillG said:

    kamski said:

    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    So by supporting England in the cricket, has Sunak just blown it with the fabled "Hindu Vote" in Uxbridge?

    Its a fairly horrible slur to suggest British Hindus don't support England.
    What a dumb statement, some do some don't. Like I said earlier, English by birth and I can't stand the England Rugby Team, particularly against Wales It has nothing to do with patriotism which brings us back to Collins's ill- judged and poor taste post re: Tebbit.

    Of course racist tropes when executed by Boris Johnson can be categorised as satire, by anyone else and it's racism.
    The idea that Sunak would lose votes over supporting England definitely suggests that those people whose votes he lost have an animosity against England and our national teams. The Tebbit test is a fairly good one to test full integration.
    The Tebbit test is a dumb racist piece of nonsense for the hard-of-thinking.
    Nah, the hard of thinking struggle with the difference between race and national identity. The Tebbit test applies equally to Pakistani, Irish or Australian immigrants. National identity is at heart an emotional, instinctive thing. Given sporting support is an emotional, instinctive thing, it reveals base loyalties. It is not a surprise the correlation between those that support a foreign nation and those Remainers who express constant cultural cringe about the UK vs the EU.
    No the hard of thinking (or outright nationalist extremists) are too immature to understand the simple idea that people have multiple identities, and different ones are more important in different contexts.
    Having multiple identities generally means supporting both, not backing the foreign identity over the one of the country you are born and raised in, in whatever context.
    As far as I am concerned, being British means you can support whatever team you like and it's absolutely nobody's fucking business.
    Is the right answer, and why idiot commenters like Collins need to keep their mouths shut.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,959
    Leon said:

    Heart of stone, laughter, etc


    ‘A sense of betrayal’: liberal dismay as Muslim-led US city bans Pride flags

    Many liberals celebrated when Hamtramck, Michigan, elected a Muslim-majority council in 2015 but a vote to exclude LGBTQ+ flags from city property has soured relations


    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/17/hamtramck-michigan-muslim-council-lgbtq-pride-flags-banned

    Are you still in West Virginia?
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,478

    WillG said:

    kamski said:

    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    So by supporting England in the cricket, has Sunak just blown it with the fabled "Hindu Vote" in Uxbridge?

    Its a fairly horrible slur to suggest British Hindus don't support England.
    What a dumb statement, some do some don't. Like I said earlier, English by birth and I can't stand the England Rugby Team, particularly against Wales It has nothing to do with patriotism which brings us back to Collins's ill- judged and poor taste post re: Tebbit.

    Of course racist tropes when executed by Boris Johnson can be categorised as satire, by anyone else and it's racism.
    The idea that Sunak would lose votes over supporting England definitely suggests that those people whose votes he lost have an animosity against England and our national teams. The Tebbit test is a fairly good one to test full integration.
    The Tebbit test is a dumb racist piece of nonsense for the hard-of-thinking.
    Nah, the hard of thinking struggle with the difference between race and national identity. The Tebbit test applies equally to Pakistani, Irish or Australian immigrants. National identity is at heart an emotional, instinctive thing. Given sporting support is an emotional, instinctive thing, it reveals base loyalties. It is not a surprise the correlation between those that support a foreign nation and those Remainers who express constant cultural cringe about the UK vs the EU.
    No the hard of thinking (or outright nationalist extremists) are too immature to understand the simple idea that people have multiple identities, and different ones are more important in different contexts.
    Having multiple identities generally means supporting both, not backing the foreign identity over the one of the country you are born and raised in, in whatever context.
    As far as I am concerned, being British means you can support whatever team you like and it's absolutely nobody's fucking business.
    Quite right too.

    Come on, you Aussies!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    edited June 2023
    Brilliant paragraphs in that Guardian story


    "In 2015, many liberal residents in Hamtramck, Michigan, celebrated as their city attracted international attention for becoming the first in the United States to elect a Muslim-majority city council.

    "They viewed the power shift and diversity as a symbolic-but-meaningful rebuke of the Islamophobic rhetoric that was a central theme of then Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump’s campaign.

    "This week many of those same residents watched in dismay as a now fully Muslim and socially conservative city council passed legislation banning Pride flags from being flown on city property that had – like many others being flown around the country – been intended to celebrate the LGBTQ+ community.

    "Muslim residents packing city hall erupted in cheers after the council’s unanimous vote, and on Hamtramck’s social media pages, the taunting has been relentless: “Fagless City”, read one post, emphasized with emojis of a bicep flexing."


    What can one say?

    GUYS, WE TRIED TO WARN YOU
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,035
    Leon said:

    Heart of stone, laughter, etc


    ‘A sense of betrayal’: liberal dismay as Muslim-led US city bans Pride flags

    Many liberals celebrated when Hamtramck, Michigan, elected a Muslim-majority council in 2015 but a vote to exclude LGBTQ+ flags from city property has soured relations


    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/17/hamtramck-michigan-muslim-council-lgbtq-pride-flags-banned

    Whoever might have thought, that Muslim-majority places might not want LTBGTQ+IAA2S “Pride” shoved down their throats?

    In unrelated news, out here in the sandpit there’s a massive influx of British residents, many of whom cite the numerous international schools as a good reason to make the move.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,959
    WillG said:

    So by supporting England in the cricket, has Sunak just blown it with the fabled "Hindu Vote" in Uxbridge?

    Its a fairly horrible slur to suggest British Hindus don't support England.
    My impression is that most of them support England when England are playing Australia.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,504
    "Jeremy Corbyn's wife Laura Alvarez in group aiming to unseat Sir Keir Starmer at next election"

    https://news.sky.com/story/jeremy-corbyns-wife-laura-alvarez-in-group-aiming-to-unseat-sir-keir-starmer-at-next-election-12903917
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Heart of stone, laughter, etc


    ‘A sense of betrayal’: liberal dismay as Muslim-led US city bans Pride flags

    Many liberals celebrated when Hamtramck, Michigan, elected a Muslim-majority council in 2015 but a vote to exclude LGBTQ+ flags from city property has soured relations


    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/17/hamtramck-michigan-muslim-council-lgbtq-pride-flags-banned

    Are you still in West Virginia?
    Yes, slowly making my way to Cincy, then Blighty!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    "Jeremy Corbyn's wife Laura Alvarez in group aiming to unseat Sir Keir Starmer at next election"

    https://news.sky.com/story/jeremy-corbyns-wife-laura-alvarez-in-group-aiming-to-unseat-sir-keir-starmer-at-next-election-12903917

    Speaking as a Camden voter, who would never vote for Starmer, I have to tell Mrs Corbyn that Starmer is going to win with a majority of about seven million, so she might as well desist
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,656
    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    So by supporting England in the cricket, has Sunak just blown it with the fabled "Hindu Vote" in Uxbridge?

    Its a fairly horrible slur to suggest British Hindus don't support England.
    What a dumb statement, some do some don't. Like I said earlier, English by birth and I can't stand the England Rugby Team, particularly against Wales It has nothing to do with patriotism which brings us back to Collins's ill- judged and poor taste post re: Tebbit.

    Of course racist tropes when executed by Boris Johnson can be categorised as satire, by anyone else and it's racism.
    The idea that Sunak would lose votes over supporting England definitely suggests that those people whose votes he lost have an animosity against England and our national teams. The Tebbit test is a fairly good one to test full integration.
    The Tebbit test is a dumb racist piece of nonsense for the hard-of-thinking.
    Nah, the hard of thinking struggle with the difference between race and national identity. The Tebbit test applies equally to Pakistani, Irish or Australian immigrants. National identity is at heart an emotional, instinctive thing. Given sporting support is an emotional, instinctive thing, it reveals base loyalties. It is not a surprise the correlation between those that support a foreign nation and those Remainers who express constant cultural cringe about the UK vs the EU.
    Are you suggesting that most Remainers would support a European team over England? Because otherwise I'm not sure what your point is.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,959
    This sounds familiar to readers of PB.

    https://www.takimag.com/article/conversations-with-cabbies/

    "Conversations With Cabbies
    Theodore Dalrymple

    Many a foreign correspondent, sent to an obscure country of which he knows nothing but which has suddenly drawn the world’s attention to itself by a terrible but soon-to-be-forgotten crisis, has based his report from the country on what the taxi driver told him on the way from the airport to the country’s one five-star hotel, at whose bar he will soon be sitting.

    This is lazy, but not necessarily stupid, for taxi drivers are often well-informed, having overheard a great deal; and they are besides blessed with that knowledge of human nature that derives from experience rather than from reading or theorizing. They are often derided as being prejudiced, but there is no one more prejudiced than he who has a theory to preserve against all evidence.

    I have had many delightful and illuminating discussions with taxi drivers. In Paris, an African driver told me that he was returning to Senegal in order to be freer than he was in France. I knew what he meant: In many respects, life is freer in Africa than it is in Europe, provided only (and it is an important proviso) that you have a little money. Regulation in Africa is much less oppressive and restrictive than in Europe, and such regulations as there are can easily be got round by a little bribery. Bribery is much more efficient than bureaucracy, especially when the latter is large and honest (there is nothing like size and honesty to render a bureaucracy stupid)."
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,656
    Andy_JS said:

    WillG said:

    So by supporting England in the cricket, has Sunak just blown it with the fabled "Hindu Vote" in Uxbridge?

    Its a fairly horrible slur to suggest British Hindus don't support England.
    My impression is that most of them support England when England are playing Australia.
    Having been at a school that was majority Asian (biddenham upper school), my experience was exactly that: they'd support England aggressively in the football, in the cricket when they were playing a third party (like Aus or NZ), but be much more torn when it came up England v India/Pakistan.

    (It goes without saying that the Hindi kids supported England when they played Pakistan, and the Muslim kids did likewise England played India.)
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    Leon said:

    Brilliant paragraphs in that Guardian story


    "In 2015, many liberal residents in Hamtramck, Michigan, celebrated as their city attracted international attention for becoming the first in the United States to elect a Muslim-majority city council.

    "They viewed the power shift and diversity as a symbolic-but-meaningful rebuke of the Islamophobic rhetoric that was a central theme of then Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump’s campaign.

    "This week many of those same residents watched in dismay as a now fully Muslim and socially conservative city council passed legislation banning Pride flags from being flown on city property that had – like many others being flown around the country – been intended to celebrate the LGBTQ+ community.

    "Muslim residents packing city hall erupted in cheers after the council’s unanimous vote, and on Hamtramck’s social media pages, the taunting has been relentless: “Fagless City”, read one post, emphasized with emojis of a bicep flexing."


    What can one say?

    GUYS, WE TRIED TO WARN YOU

    Wow

    "“There’s a sense of betrayal,” said the former Hamtramck mayor Karen Majewski, who is Polish American. “We supported you when you were threatened, and now our rights are threatened, and you’re the one doing the threatening....
    After several years of diversity on the council, some see irony in an all-male, Muslim elected government that doesn’t reflect the city’s makeup."


  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,888
    Leon said:

    Brilliant paragraphs in that Guardian story


    "In 2015, many liberal residents in Hamtramck, Michigan, celebrated as their city attracted international attention for becoming the first in the United States to elect a Muslim-majority city council.

    "They viewed the power shift and diversity as a symbolic-but-meaningful rebuke of the Islamophobic rhetoric that was a central theme of then Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump’s campaign.

    "This week many of those same residents watched in dismay as a now fully Muslim and socially conservative city council passed legislation banning Pride flags from being flown on city property that had – like many others being flown around the country – been intended to celebrate the LGBTQ+ community.

    "Muslim residents packing city hall erupted in cheers after the council’s unanimous vote, and on Hamtramck’s social media pages, the taunting has been relentless: “Fagless City”, read one post, emphasized with emojis of a bicep flexing."


    What can one say?

    GUYS, WE TRIED TO WARN YOU

    This morning on R4 Today they covered, without the smallest attempt at balance or unbiased reporting, the current abortion law as it is in Texas (incidentally my biases are not much different from the BBC but that's not relevant). Texas came out quite badly all round, and I don't disagree.

    As with this Hantramck thing, this is about what elected politicians do with matters within their powers.

    R4 Today didn't mention, SFAICS, the fact that the voters are supreme in the matter of Texas abortion law. They elect the Texas authorities. Just like the UK.

    Voting levels in the USA are low. They could always try (like those millions of young non voting remainers) turning up to vote.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,656
    Andy_JS said:

    This sounds familiar to readers of PB.

    https://www.takimag.com/article/conversations-with-cabbies/

    "Conversations With Cabbies
    Theodore Dalrymple

    Many a foreign correspondent, sent to an obscure country of which he knows nothing but which has suddenly drawn the world’s attention to itself by a terrible but soon-to-be-forgotten crisis, has based his report from the country on what the taxi driver told him on the way from the airport to the country’s one five-star hotel, at whose bar he will soon be sitting.

    This is lazy, but not necessarily stupid, for taxi drivers are often well-informed, having overheard a great deal; and they are besides blessed with that knowledge of human nature that derives from experience rather than from reading or theorizing. They are often derided as being prejudiced, but there is no one more prejudiced than he who has a theory to preserve against all evidence.

    I have had many delightful and illuminating discussions with taxi drivers. In Paris, an African driver told me that he was returning to Senegal in order to be freer than he was in France. I knew what he meant: In many respects, life is freer in Africa than it is in Europe, provided only (and it is an important proviso) that you have a little money. Regulation in Africa is much less oppressive and restrictive than in Europe, and such regulations as there are can easily be got round by a little bribery. Bribery is much more efficient than bureaucracy, especially when the latter is large and honest (there is nothing like size and honesty to render a bureaucracy stupid)."

    Having done business in Europe and Africa, this is completely wrong.

    I mean, not just a little wrong, but wildly inaccurate.

    It's taken me over a year to get companies registered in Africa. In no country in Europe will it take more than an hour.

    Oil companies will choose to import even the most basic of components from the developed world, rather that getting them made locally in Africa, because (once you account for the time and the bribes), it's cheaper. And I mean dramatically cheaper.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,395

    Slightly mystified as to what attracted the mini Hitler to Elgin. Maybe Douglas Ross’s anti gypsy patter
    got his antennae twitching?



    Maybe he's lost his marbles and thought that Elgin might have some going spare.
    Apparently objecting to asylum seekers being housed there.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,230
    Having multiple, potentially conflicting, identities can be a challenge and cause of confusion for many people. That can be on the basis of nationality, ethnicity, religion, social class or other factors.

  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,416
    Sandpit said:

    ... out here in the sandpit...

    I know you mean "Middle Eastern country with a desert, many expats, and soundproofed torture chambers", but I keep thinking it's a "virtual-reality occupant of a computer-generated environment segregated to allow experimentation/development". It is an odd picture... :smiley:

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,395
    edited June 2023
    darkage said:

    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    So by supporting England in the cricket, has Sunak just blown it with the fabled "Hindu Vote" in Uxbridge?

    Its a fairly horrible slur to suggest British Hindus don't support England.
    What a dumb statement, some do some don't. Like I said earlier, English by birth and I can't stand the England Rugby Team, particularly against Wales It has nothing to do with patriotism which brings us back to Collins's ill- judged and poor taste post re: Tebbit.

    Of course racist tropes when executed by Boris Johnson can be categorised as satire, by anyone else and it's racism.
    The idea that Sunak would lose votes over supporting England definitely suggests that those people whose votes he lost have an animosity against England and our national teams. The Tebbit test is a fairly good one to test full integration.
    The Tebbit test is a dumb racist piece of nonsense for the hard-of-thinking.
    Nah, the hard of thinking struggle with the difference between race and national identity. The Tebbit test applies equally to Pakistani, Irish or Australian immigrants. National identity is at heart an emotional, instinctive thing. Given sporting support is an emotional, instinctive thing, it reveals base loyalties. It is not a surprise the correlation between those that support a foreign nation and those Remainers who express constant cultural cringe about the UK vs the EU.
    No it's idiotic because it's entirely possible to be and feel completely British but support a different sports team for whatever reason, be it loyalty to your parent's heritage or whatever. It's got fuck all to do with Brexit, too BTW, not sure why you want to shoehorn that in.
    Unlike lots of other countries we recognise dual nationals - so we don't really ask people to choose a main loyalty.

    Dual [edit] nationality is inherent in being a UK citizen, even before one looks outside. And the folk in NI etc are dual nationals in a very real sense, even if theyt haven't taken up their Irish passports.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,888
    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This sounds familiar to readers of PB.

    https://www.takimag.com/article/conversations-with-cabbies/

    "Conversations With Cabbies
    Theodore Dalrymple

    Many a foreign correspondent, sent to an obscure country of which he knows nothing but which has suddenly drawn the world’s attention to itself by a terrible but soon-to-be-forgotten crisis, has based his report from the country on what the taxi driver told him on the way from the airport to the country’s one five-star hotel, at whose bar he will soon be sitting.

    This is lazy, but not necessarily stupid, for taxi drivers are often well-informed, having overheard a great deal; and they are besides blessed with that knowledge of human nature that derives from experience rather than from reading or theorizing. They are often derided as being prejudiced, but there is no one more prejudiced than he who has a theory to preserve against all evidence.

    I have had many delightful and illuminating discussions with taxi drivers. In Paris, an African driver told me that he was returning to Senegal in order to be freer than he was in France. I knew what he meant: In many respects, life is freer in Africa than it is in Europe, provided only (and it is an important proviso) that you have a little money. Regulation in Africa is much less oppressive and restrictive than in Europe, and such regulations as there are can easily be got round by a little bribery. Bribery is much more efficient than bureaucracy, especially when the latter is large and honest (there is nothing like size and honesty to render a bureaucracy stupid)."

    Having done business in Europe and Africa, this is completely wrong.

    I mean, not just a little wrong, but wildly inaccurate.

    It's taken me over a year to get companies registered in Africa. In no country in Europe will it take more than an hour.

    Oil companies will choose to import even the most basic of components from the developed world, rather that getting them made locally in Africa, because (once you account for the time and the bribes), it's cheaper. And I mean dramatically cheaper.

    If the absurd Dalrymple were correct, even a bit, boat people will in due course form a queue to get across the channel for the free trip to Rwanda.
  • VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,550
    I have thought that the tebbit cricket test is similar to determining someone's domicile.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,416
    Andy_JS said:

    This sounds familiar to readers of PB.

    https://www.takimag.com/article/conversations-with-cabbies/

    "Conversations With Cabbies
    Theodore Dalrymple..."

    "I 'ad that Smithson fella in the back of me cab once, guv'nor..."
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,992
    Afternoon all :)

    Life's a funny thing - out in Ilford this morning. I find the Friends of the Earth stand - I consider myself to be more of an Acquaintance of the Earth to be honest - and within 50 yards, the Socialist Party and the Workers' Party are tearing verbal lumps out of each other to a bemused public and triggering fond memories of Python movies.

    Having fought our way home through the Saturday traffic - the A118 has the ludicrous concept of squeezing three lanes into one just west of Ilford Town Centre and, surprisingly, there's a right bottleneck. While those sitting in the queue might dream of bulldozers pulverising their way up the Romford Road to Manor Park, I'm less certain the locals would be in favour.

    Back home and I'm delighted to find I will have a Liberal Democrat candidate in the upcoming Wall End by-election. She won't win - fourth is probably realistic but it's nice to have the party on the ballot.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,558
    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    Brilliant paragraphs in that Guardian story


    "In 2015, many liberal residents in Hamtramck, Michigan, celebrated as their city attracted international attention for becoming the first in the United States to elect a Muslim-majority city council.

    "They viewed the power shift and diversity as a symbolic-but-meaningful rebuke of the Islamophobic rhetoric that was a central theme of then Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump’s campaign.

    "This week many of those same residents watched in dismay as a now fully Muslim and socially conservative city council passed legislation banning Pride flags from being flown on city property that had – like many others being flown around the country – been intended to celebrate the LGBTQ+ community.

    "Muslim residents packing city hall erupted in cheers after the council’s unanimous vote, and on Hamtramck’s social media pages, the taunting has been relentless: “Fagless City”, read one post, emphasized with emojis of a bicep flexing."


    What can one say?

    GUYS, WE TRIED TO WARN YOU

    This morning on R4 Today they covered, without the smallest attempt at balance or unbiased reporting, the current abortion law as it is in Texas (incidentally my biases are not much different from the BBC but that's not relevant). Texas came out quite badly all round, and I don't disagree.

    As with this Hantramck thing, this is about what elected politicians do with matters within their powers.

    R4 Today didn't mention, SFAICS, the fact that the voters are supreme in the matter of Texas abortion law. They elect the Texas authorities. Just like the UK.

    Voting levels in the USA are low. They could always try (like those millions of young non voting remainers) turning up to vote.
    I think what’s needed is for BBC listeners and Guardian readers to write letters to Texans ahead of their next election as it will change their minds about abortion 100%. I cannot see anything about this plan backfiring.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,416
    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This sounds familiar to readers of PB.

    https://www.takimag.com/article/conversations-with-cabbies/

    "Conversations With Cabbies
    Theodore Dalrymple

    ... In many respects, life is freer in Africa than it is in Europe, provided only (and it is an important proviso) that you have a little money. Regulation in Africa is much less oppressive and restrictive than in Europe, and such regulations as there are can easily be got round by a little bribery. Bribery is much more efficient than bureaucracy, especially when the latter is large and honest (there is nothing like size and honesty to render a bureaucracy stupid)."

    Having done business in Europe and Africa, this is completely wrong.

    I mean, not just a little wrong, but wildly inaccurate.

    I think Dr Dalrymple's concept of "a little money" may be a bit different to mine... :(

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Heart of stone, laughter, etc


    ‘A sense of betrayal’: liberal dismay as Muslim-led US city bans Pride flags

    Many liberals celebrated when Hamtramck, Michigan, elected a Muslim-majority council in 2015 but a vote to exclude LGBTQ+ flags from city property has soured relations


    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/17/hamtramck-michigan-muslim-council-lgbtq-pride-flags-banned

    Are you still in West Virginia?
    Yes, slowly making my way to Cincy, then Blighty!
    Before you fly out of Northern Kentucky (aka Cincinnati) International Airport, do NOT miss checking out Big Bone Lick:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bone_Lick_State_Park

    Big Bone Lick State Park is located at Big Bone in Boone County, Kentucky. The name of the park comes from the Pleistocene megafauna fossils found there.[5] Mammoths are believed to have been drawn to this location by a salt lick deposited around the sulfur springs.[6] Other animals including forms of bison, caribou, deer, elk, horse, mastodon, moose, musk ox, peccary, ground sloths, wolves, black bears, stag moose, saber-toothed cats, and possibly tapir[7] also grazed the vegetation and salty earth around the springs that the animals relied on for their diet.[8][9]

    One mastodon bone was unearthed here with a noticeable cut mark on it, implying that the Clovis people lived in the area thousands of years ago.[10]

    The area near the springs was very soft and marshy causing many animals to become stuck with no way to escape.[1] It bills itself as "the birthplace of American paleontology", a term which dates from the 1807 expedition by William Clark undertaken at the direction of President Thomas Jefferson.[11]

    In Nicholas Cresswell's journal, dated 1774 to 1777, he records a visit in 1775 to what was then called "Elephant Bone Lick." In this account, Cresswell describes finding several bones of "prodigious size", as well as tusk fragments, and teeth—one weighing approximately 10 pounds. While he assumed the bones were from ancient elephants, the local native traditions claimed the bones to be those of white buffaloes that had been poisoned by the salty water.[12]

    In 2002, the National Park Service designated Big Bone Lick State Park as an official Lewis and Clark Heritage Trail Site.[13] The park was also listed in 1972 on the National Register of Historic Places and was further listed as a National Natural Landmark in February 2009.

    SSI - No doubt a renowned flint-knapping dildo-maker cannot fail to find inspiration at Big Bone Lick!

    BTW (and FYI) many years ago on a road trip with a buddy, drove to BBL without me telling him our destination.

    When he saw the sign at the entrance of state park, he damn near pissed his pants from laughing so hard.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,711
    Andy_JS said:

    This sounds familiar to readers of PB.

    https://www.takimag.com/article/conversations-with-cabbies/

    "Conversations With Cabbies
    Theodore Dalrymple

    Many a foreign correspondent, sent to an obscure country of which he knows nothing but which has suddenly drawn the world’s attention to itself by a terrible but soon-to-be-forgotten crisis, has based his report from the country on what the taxi driver told him on the way from the airport to the country’s one five-star hotel, at whose bar he will soon be sitting.

    This is lazy, but not necessarily stupid, for taxi drivers are often well-informed, having overheard a great deal; and they are besides blessed with that knowledge of human nature that derives from experience rather than from reading or theorizing. They are often derided as being prejudiced, but there is no one more prejudiced than he who has a theory to preserve against all evidence.

    I have had many delightful and illuminating discussions with taxi drivers. In Paris, an African driver told me that he was returning to Senegal in order to be freer than he was in France. I knew what he meant: In many respects, life is freer in Africa than it is in Europe, provided only (and it is an important proviso) that you have a little money. Regulation in Africa is much less oppressive and restrictive than in Europe, and such regulations as there are can easily be got round by a little bribery. Bribery is much more efficient than bureaucracy, especially when the latter is large and honest (there is nothing like size and honesty to render a bureaucracy stupid)."

    This must be why Surrey County Council find it so hard to cut the grass.

    The A31 and most of the primary rounds around Guildford now have road signs that are completely overgrown and illegible from grass and bush growth, yet seem incapable of doing anything about it.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,318
    edited June 2023
    If the people of Hamtranck don’t want a Pride parade, great. That’s democracy.

    There’s no inalienable right to have the local council fly Pride flags.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,772

    Andy_JS said:

    This sounds familiar to readers of PB.

    https://www.takimag.com/article/conversations-with-cabbies/

    "Conversations With Cabbies
    Theodore Dalrymple

    Many a foreign correspondent, sent to an obscure country of which he knows nothing but which has suddenly drawn the world’s attention to itself by a terrible but soon-to-be-forgotten crisis, has based his report from the country on what the taxi driver told him on the way from the airport to the country’s one five-star hotel, at whose bar he will soon be sitting.

    This is lazy, but not necessarily stupid, for taxi drivers are often well-informed, having overheard a great deal; and they are besides blessed with that knowledge of human nature that derives from experience rather than from reading or theorizing. They are often derided as being prejudiced, but there is no one more prejudiced than he who has a theory to preserve against all evidence.

    I have had many delightful and illuminating discussions with taxi drivers. In Paris, an African driver told me that he was returning to Senegal in order to be freer than he was in France. I knew what he meant: In many respects, life is freer in Africa than it is in Europe, provided only (and it is an important proviso) that you have a little money. Regulation in Africa is much less oppressive and restrictive than in Europe, and such regulations as there are can easily be got round by a little bribery. Bribery is much more efficient than bureaucracy, especially when the latter is large and honest (there is nothing like size and honesty to render a bureaucracy stupid)."

    This must be why Surrey County Council find it so hard to cut the grass.

    The A31 and most of the primary rounds around Guildford now have road signs that are completely overgrown and illegible from grass and bush growth, yet seem incapable of doing anything about it.
    To be fair Staffordshire have finally cut their verges.

    I was very relieved about that because at some junctions in not exactly a low car I had zero visibility. Bloody dangerous.

    The one amusing thing was it had overgrown the speed cameras, but since that encouraged the boy racers to go mad even that wasn't great.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,263
    edited June 2023

    ...

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Rishi Sunak is the Mark Ramprakash of politics. Should be a good performer on paper, but struggles to get out of the 20s.

    But who also enjoyed an exceptionally long first class career?
    Not the only player to be exposed at the highest level. Many, many England players over the years have been tried and not quite been good enough. In recent times Rory Burns would be a good example. Back further Graham Hick.

    Its also notable to see who Ramps played - mostly Australia and the WI, when both have excellent attacks.
    Ramprakash and Hick both had their test debuts in the same game, although I think you could argue that Hick's test performance improved more than Ramprakash's.
    There was a lot of nonsense around Graeme Hick's eligibility status, so whilst he was at the top of his game at New Road he was ineligible for England and for years. I believe there was more to it than that, I don't think Hick fitted into the England set up and Ray Illingwirth didn't rate him or like him.
    I recall the Test where Devon Malcolm got more runs than Hick against the West Indies
    Who can forget Malcolm Devon ?
    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    Brilliant paragraphs in that Guardian story


    "In 2015, many liberal residents in Hamtramck, Michigan, celebrated as their city attracted international attention for becoming the first in the United States to elect a Muslim-majority city council.

    "They viewed the power shift and diversity as a symbolic-but-meaningful rebuke of the Islamophobic rhetoric that was a central theme of then Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump’s campaign.

    "This week many of those same residents watched in dismay as a now fully Muslim and socially conservative city council passed legislation banning Pride flags from being flown on city property that had – like many others being flown around the country – been intended to celebrate the LGBTQ+ community.

    "Muslim residents packing city hall erupted in cheers after the council’s unanimous vote, and on Hamtramck’s social media pages, the taunting has been relentless: “Fagless City”, read one post, emphasized with emojis of a bicep flexing."


    What can one say?

    GUYS, WE TRIED TO WARN YOU

    This morning on R4 Today they covered, without the smallest attempt at balance or unbiased reporting, the current abortion law as it is in Texas (incidentally my biases are not much different from the BBC but that's not relevant). Texas came out quite badly all round, and I don't disagree.

    As with this Hantramck thing, this is about what elected politicians do with matters within their powers…

    No, it’s not.
    It’s about a constitutionally protected right, settled for fifty years, being removed by five unelected judges.

    And it very likely will change a lot of votes.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    darkage said:

    Leon said:

    Brilliant paragraphs in that Guardian story


    "In 2015, many liberal residents in Hamtramck, Michigan, celebrated as their city attracted international attention for becoming the first in the United States to elect a Muslim-majority city council.

    "They viewed the power shift and diversity as a symbolic-but-meaningful rebuke of the Islamophobic rhetoric that was a central theme of then Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump’s campaign.

    "This week many of those same residents watched in dismay as a now fully Muslim and socially conservative city council passed legislation banning Pride flags from being flown on city property that had – like many others being flown around the country – been intended to celebrate the LGBTQ+ community.

    "Muslim residents packing city hall erupted in cheers after the council’s unanimous vote, and on Hamtramck’s social media pages, the taunting has been relentless: “Fagless City”, read one post, emphasized with emojis of a bicep flexing."


    What can one say?

    GUYS, WE TRIED TO WARN YOU

    Wow

    "“There’s a sense of betrayal,” said the former Hamtramck mayor Karen Majewski, who is Polish American. “We supported you when you were threatened, and now our rights are threatened, and you’re the one doing the threatening....
    After several years of diversity on the council, some see irony in an all-male, Muslim elected government that doesn’t reflect the city’s makeup."


    I’ve got intelligent gay left wing friends with whom I’ve had this exact debate. They are pro immigration of course. Very pro. I’ve told them: eventually if you import enough Muslims - with socially conservative Muslim views - you will get Muslim homophobia as a policy. Muslims generally do not adapt to the host society’s beliefs, they keep their beliefs

    They airily dismissed me as a right wng Islamophobe etc etc

    At the time it was all theoretical. Well here it is in reality. Happening

    It will eventually happen in the UK as well
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,208
    WillG said:

    kamski said:

    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    So by supporting England in the cricket, has Sunak just blown it with the fabled "Hindu Vote" in Uxbridge?

    Its a fairly horrible slur to suggest British Hindus don't support England.
    What a dumb statement, some do some don't. Like I said earlier, English by birth and I can't stand the England Rugby Team, particularly against Wales It has nothing to do with patriotism which brings us back to Collins's ill- judged and poor taste post re: Tebbit.

    Of course racist tropes when executed by Boris Johnson can be categorised as satire, by anyone else and it's racism.
    The idea that Sunak would lose votes over supporting England definitely suggests that those people whose votes he lost have an animosity against England and our national teams. The Tebbit test is a fairly good one to test full integration.
    The Tebbit test is a dumb racist piece of nonsense for the hard-of-thinking.
    Nah, the hard of thinking struggle with the difference between race and national identity. The Tebbit test applies equally to Pakistani, Irish or Australian immigrants. National identity is at heart an emotional, instinctive thing. Given sporting support is an emotional, instinctive thing, it reveals base loyalties. It is not a surprise the correlation between those that support a foreign nation and those Remainers who express constant cultural cringe about the UK vs the EU.
    No the hard of thinking (or outright nationalist extremists) are too immature to understand the simple idea that people have multiple identities, and different ones are more important in different contexts.
    Having multiple identities generally means supporting both, not backing the foreign identity over the one of the country you are born and raised in, in whatever context.
    Not necessarily. For example my son was born in Germany and has lived in Germany his whole life, has a Germany mother and certainly considers himself German more than British/English. But when England play Germany at football he is 100% behind England. To suggest that this suggests some failure of integration, or that he has failed some moronic purity test, is not just showing a massive lack of imagination, it's also insulting and dangerous.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,318
    Britain is hideously over-bureaucratised.

    The buy-one-get-one-free ban (now simply delayed by two years) is a classic example. Looked on from the outside, it seems like a form of lunacy.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,318
    edited June 2023
    I support TeamGB (though should be TeamUK) in the Olympics, and New Zealand of course.

    Otherwise I support any team, bar South Africa, playing England in rugby or cricket.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    edited June 2023
    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This sounds familiar to readers of PB.

    https://www.takimag.com/article/conversations-with-cabbies/

    "Conversations With Cabbies
    Theodore Dalrymple

    Many a foreign correspondent, sent to an obscure country of which he knows nothing but which has suddenly drawn the world’s attention to itself by a terrible but soon-to-be-forgotten crisis, has based his report from the country on what the taxi driver told him on the way from the airport to the country’s one five-star hotel, at whose bar he will soon be sitting.

    This is lazy, but not necessarily stupid, for taxi drivers are often well-informed, having overheard a great deal; and they are besides blessed with that knowledge of human nature that derives from experience rather than from reading or theorizing. They are often derided as being prejudiced, but there is no one more prejudiced than he who has a theory to preserve against all evidence.

    I have had many delightful and illuminating discussions with taxi drivers. In Paris, an African driver told me that he was returning to Senegal in order to be freer than he was in France. I knew what he meant: In many respects, life is freer in Africa than it is in Europe, provided only (and it is an important proviso) that you have a little money. Regulation in Africa is much less oppressive and restrictive than in Europe, and such regulations as there are can easily be got round by a little bribery. Bribery is much more efficient than bureaucracy, especially when the latter is large and honest (there is nothing like size and honesty to render a bureaucracy stupid)."

    Having done business in Europe and Africa, this is completely wrong.

    I mean, not just a little wrong, but wildly inaccurate.

    It's taken me over a year to get companies registered in Africa. In no country in Europe will it take more than an hour.

    Oil companies will choose to import even the most basic of components from the developed world, rather that getting them made locally in Africa, because (once you account for the time and the bribes), it's cheaper. And I mean dramatically cheaper.

    Yes it’s utter nonsense from beginning to end

    Any country that relies on bribery is going to be a nightmare to do business in, and probably to live in

    You can see this truth even WITHIN countries. Italy is the classic example. In the south you need to pay bribes to everyone. All the local mafias

    In the far north they have German levels of probity and honesty (and sometimes speak German)

    The south is poor and desperate, the north is rich and orderly
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,167
    Leon said:

    Brilliant paragraphs in that Guardian story


    "In 2015, many liberal residents in Hamtramck, Michigan, celebrated as their city attracted international attention for becoming the first in the United States to elect a Muslim-majority city council.

    "They viewed the power shift and diversity as a symbolic-but-meaningful rebuke of the Islamophobic rhetoric that was a central theme of then Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump’s campaign.

    "This week many of those same residents watched in dismay as a now fully Muslim and socially conservative city council passed legislation banning Pride flags from being flown on city property that had – like many others being flown around the country – been intended to celebrate the LGBTQ+ community.

    "Muslim residents packing city hall erupted in cheers after the council’s unanimous vote, and on Hamtramck’s social media pages, the taunting has been relentless: “Fagless City”, read one post, emphasized with emojis of a bicep flexing."


    What can one say?

    GUYS, WE TRIED TO WARN YOU

    Was your warning INTERN MUSLIMS DON’T ELECT THEM?

    Perhaps it fell on deafish ears.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,318
    edited June 2023
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This sounds familiar to readers of PB.

    https://www.takimag.com/article/conversations-with-cabbies/

    "Conversations With Cabbies
    Theodore Dalrymple

    Many a foreign correspondent, sent to an obscure country of which he knows nothing but which has suddenly drawn the world’s attention to itself by a terrible but soon-to-be-forgotten crisis, has based his report from the country on what the taxi driver told him on the way from the airport to the country’s one five-star hotel, at whose bar he will soon be sitting.

    This is lazy, but not necessarily stupid, for taxi drivers are often well-informed, having overheard a great deal; and they are besides blessed with that knowledge of human nature that derives from experience rather than from reading or theorizing. They are often derided as being prejudiced, but there is no one more prejudiced than he who has a theory to preserve against all evidence.

    I have had many delightful and illuminating discussions with taxi drivers. In Paris, an African driver told me that he was returning to Senegal in order to be freer than he was in France. I knew what he meant: In many respects, life is freer in Africa than it is in Europe, provided only (and it is an important proviso) that you have a little money. Regulation in Africa is much less oppressive and restrictive than in Europe, and such regulations as there are can easily be got round by a little bribery. Bribery is much more efficient than bureaucracy, especially when the latter is large and honest (there is nothing like size and honesty to render a bureaucracy stupid)."

    Having done business in Europe and Africa, this is completely wrong.

    I mean, not just a little wrong, but wildly inaccurate.

    It's taken me over a year to get companies registered in Africa. In no country in Europe will it take more than an hour.

    Oil companies will choose to import even the most basic of components from the developed world, rather that getting them made locally in Africa, because (once you account for the time and the bribes), it's cheaper. And I mean dramatically cheaper.

    Yes it’s utter nonsense from beginning to end

    Any country that relies on bribery is going to be a nightmare to do business in, and probably to live in
    Is Italy a nightmare to live in?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Another KY site/sight for Leon to consider, is a flying visit to the late Queen Elizabeth's favorite American destination - Lexington.

    The historical, cultural and economic hub of famed Bluegrass region, where geology (lots of limestone), climate and other factors combine to create perhaps the best natural horse raising, rearing and racing complex this side of the Curragh of Kildare.

    https://kyhorsepark.com/equine-theme-park/museums/international-museum-of-the-horse/

    Museum of the Horse is worth a visit; while downtown see the girlhood home of Mary Todd Lincoln and campuses of Transylvania University (famed not for Dracula studies but rather as the first college west of the Allegheny mountains) and the University of Kentucky (famed as a major NCAA Div 1 men's basketball powerhouse.

    My guess is that, if Leon swings though Lexington, he will find bit less of the US urban blight than he's so keen on.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,691
    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This sounds familiar to readers of PB.

    https://www.takimag.com/article/conversations-with-cabbies/

    "Conversations With Cabbies
    Theodore Dalrymple

    Many a foreign correspondent, sent to an obscure country of which he knows nothing but which has suddenly drawn the world’s attention to itself by a terrible but soon-to-be-forgotten crisis, has based his report from the country on what the taxi driver told him on the way from the airport to the country’s one five-star hotel, at whose bar he will soon be sitting.

    This is lazy, but not necessarily stupid, for taxi drivers are often well-informed, having overheard a great deal; and they are besides blessed with that knowledge of human nature that derives from experience rather than from reading or theorizing. They are often derided as being prejudiced, but there is no one more prejudiced than he who has a theory to preserve against all evidence.

    I have had many delightful and illuminating discussions with taxi drivers. In Paris, an African driver told me that he was returning to Senegal in order to be freer than he was in France. I knew what he meant: In many respects, life is freer in Africa than it is in Europe, provided only (and it is an important proviso) that you have a little money. Regulation in Africa is much less oppressive and restrictive than in Europe, and such regulations as there are can easily be got round by a little bribery. Bribery is much more efficient than bureaucracy, especially when the latter is large and honest (there is nothing like size and honesty to render a bureaucracy stupid)."

    Having done business in Europe and Africa, this is completely wrong.

    I mean, not just a little wrong, but wildly inaccurate.

    It's taken me over a year to get companies registered in Africa. In no country in Europe will it take more than an hour.

    Oil companies will choose to import even the most basic of components from the developed world, rather that getting them made locally in Africa, because (once you account for the time and the bribes), it's cheaper. And I mean dramatically cheaper.

    The idea that bribery is efficient goes against my understanding of why developed countries are so productive.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,318
    edited June 2023

    Another KY site/sight for Leon to consider, is a flying visit to the late Queen Elizabeth's favorite American destination - Lexington.

    The historical, cultural and economic hub of famed Bluegrass region, where geology (lots of limestone), climate and other factors combine to create perhaps the best natural horse raising, rearing and racing complex this side of the Curragh of Kildare.

    https://kyhorsepark.com/equine-theme-park/museums/international-museum-of-the-horse/

    Museum of the Horse is worth a visit; while downtown see the girlhood home of Mary Todd Lincoln and campuses of Transylvania University (famed not for Dracula studies but rather as the first college west of the Allegheny mountains) and the University of Kentucky (famed as a major NCAA Div 1 men's basketball powerhouse.

    My guess is that, if Leon swings though Lexington, he will find bit less of the US urban blight than he's so keen on.

    You are superlatively well-travelled.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This sounds familiar to readers of PB.

    https://www.takimag.com/article/conversations-with-cabbies/

    "Conversations With Cabbies
    Theodore Dalrymple

    Many a foreign correspondent, sent to an obscure country of which he knows nothing but which has suddenly drawn the world’s attention to itself by a terrible but soon-to-be-forgotten crisis, has based his report from the country on what the taxi driver told him on the way from the airport to the country’s one five-star hotel, at whose bar he will soon be sitting.

    This is lazy, but not necessarily stupid, for taxi drivers are often well-informed, having overheard a great deal; and they are besides blessed with that knowledge of human nature that derives from experience rather than from reading or theorizing. They are often derided as being prejudiced, but there is no one more prejudiced than he who has a theory to preserve against all evidence.

    I have had many delightful and illuminating discussions with taxi drivers. In Paris, an African driver told me that he was returning to Senegal in order to be freer than he was in France. I knew what he meant: In many respects, life is freer in Africa than it is in Europe, provided only (and it is an important proviso) that you have a little money. Regulation in Africa is much less oppressive and restrictive than in Europe, and such regulations as there are can easily be got round by a little bribery. Bribery is much more efficient than bureaucracy, especially when the latter is large and honest (there is nothing like size and honesty to render a bureaucracy stupid)."

    Having done business in Europe and Africa, this is completely wrong.

    I mean, not just a little wrong, but wildly inaccurate.

    It's taken me over a year to get companies registered in Africa. In no country in Europe will it take more than an hour.

    Oil companies will choose to import even the most basic of components from the developed world, rather that getting them made locally in Africa, because (once you account for the time and the bribes), it's cheaper. And I mean dramatically cheaper.

    Yes it’s utter nonsense from beginning to end

    Any country that relies on bribery is going to be a nightmare to do business in, and probably to live in
    Is Italy a nightmare to live in?
    Calabria yes. Naples generally yes. Sicily often
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,318
    edited June 2023
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This sounds familiar to readers of PB.

    https://www.takimag.com/article/conversations-with-cabbies/

    "Conversations With Cabbies
    Theodore Dalrymple

    Many a foreign correspondent, sent to an obscure country of which he knows nothing but which has suddenly drawn the world’s attention to itself by a terrible but soon-to-be-forgotten crisis, has based his report from the country on what the taxi driver told him on the way from the airport to the country’s one five-star hotel, at whose bar he will soon be sitting.

    This is lazy, but not necessarily stupid, for taxi drivers are often well-informed, having overheard a great deal; and they are besides blessed with that knowledge of human nature that derives from experience rather than from reading or theorizing. They are often derided as being prejudiced, but there is no one more prejudiced than he who has a theory to preserve against all evidence.

    I have had many delightful and illuminating discussions with taxi drivers. In Paris, an African driver told me that he was returning to Senegal in order to be freer than he was in France. I knew what he meant: In many respects, life is freer in Africa than it is in Europe, provided only (and it is an important proviso) that you have a little money. Regulation in Africa is much less oppressive and restrictive than in Europe, and such regulations as there are can easily be got round by a little bribery. Bribery is much more efficient than bureaucracy, especially when the latter is large and honest (there is nothing like size and honesty to render a bureaucracy stupid)."

    Having done business in Europe and Africa, this is completely wrong.

    I mean, not just a little wrong, but wildly inaccurate.

    It's taken me over a year to get companies registered in Africa. In no country in Europe will it take more than an hour.

    Oil companies will choose to import even the most basic of components from the developed world, rather that getting them made locally in Africa, because (once you account for the time and the bribes), it's cheaper. And I mean dramatically cheaper.

    Yes it’s utter nonsense from beginning to end

    Any country that relies on bribery is going to be a nightmare to do business in, and probably to live in
    Is Italy a nightmare to live in?
    Calabria yes. Naples generally yes. Sicily often
    Good food though.
    Too hot for me, but a villa outside Naples is hardly a hellish way to live out one’s years. Worked for Gore Vidal.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,992
    I presume we've covered the Redfield & Wilton poll on the London Mayor:

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/london-mayoral-election-voting-intention-10-12-june-2023/

    Sadiq Khan holds a narrow but convincing lead - there are some interesting details. He trails the unnamed Conservative candidate 38-35 among men but has a 21-point lead (48-27) among women.

    Khan leads 40-29 in Inner London and 42-36 in Outer London.

    None of this should be conflated into Westminster VI - there are clearly a core of Labour GE voters who aren't fans of Sadiq Khan.

    There was also a piece in the Standard on Thursday (I think) suggesting links between anti-ULEZ campaigners and both climate change deniers and anti-vaccine protesters. The fact Conservatives now seem to have found common cause with Piers Corbyn in opposing ULEZ is illuminating.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Another KY site/sight for Leon to consider, is a flying visit to the late Queen Elizabeth's favorite American destination - Lexington.

    The historical, cultural and economic hub of famed Bluegrass region, where geology (lots of limestone), climate and other factors combine to create perhaps the best natural horse raising, rearing and racing complex this side of the Curragh of Kildare.

    https://kyhorsepark.com/equine-theme-park/museums/international-museum-of-the-horse/

    Museum of the Horse is worth a visit; while downtown see the girlhood home of Mary Todd Lincoln and campuses of Transylvania University (famed not for Dracula studies but rather as the first college west of the Allegheny mountains) and the University of Kentucky (famed as a major NCAA Div 1 men's basketball powerhouse.

    My guess is that, if Leon swings though Lexington, he will find bit less of the US urban blight than he's so keen on.

    You are superlatively well-travelled.
    Naw, certainly nothing compared to you and MANY other peripatetic PBs.

    Just have been where I've been - and that happens to include where Leon happens to be now.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,145
    viewcode said:

    Sandpit said:

    ... out here in the sandpit...

    I know you mean "Middle Eastern country with a desert, many expats, and soundproofed torture chambers", but I keep thinking it's a "virtual-reality occupant of a computer-generated environment segregated to allow experimentation/development". It is an odd picture... :smiley:

    The apartheid system in the Sandpit works well for those with money and either Western or Emirati nationality. Not so much for the South Asian and Philipino construction and retail workers living in barracks without rights.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    If the people of Hamtranck don’t want a Pride parade, great. That’s democracy.

    There’s no inalienable right to have the local council fly Pride flags.

    You don’t believe that, eventually, it might go a bit further than “banning Pride flags”?

    And if you were a homosexual in this town, right now, how would you be feeling? Safe? Pleased? Air punching and shouting “yay American democracy”?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    Another KY site/sight for Leon to consider, is a flying visit to the late Queen Elizabeth's favorite American destination - Lexington.

    The historical, cultural and economic hub of famed Bluegrass region, where geology (lots of limestone), climate and other factors combine to create perhaps the best natural horse raising, rearing and racing complex this side of the Curragh of Kildare.

    https://kyhorsepark.com/equine-theme-park/museums/international-museum-of-the-horse/

    Museum of the Horse is worth a visit; while downtown see the girlhood home of Mary Todd Lincoln and campuses of Transylvania University (famed not for Dracula studies but rather as the first college west of the Allegheny mountains) and the University of Kentucky (famed as a major NCAA Div 1 men's basketball powerhouse.

    My guess is that, if Leon swings though Lexington, he will find bit less of the US urban blight than he's so keen on.

    You are superlatively well-travelled.
    Naw, certainly nothing compared to you and MANY other peripatetic PBs.

    Just have been where I've been - and that happens to include where Leon happens to be now.

    I confess I am un-enthused by “the museum of the horse”

    However I might check out Lexington. I have two full days left - with not much left to see
  • Supporting a

    Britain is hideously over-bureaucratised.

    The buy-one-get-one-free ban (now simply delayed by two years) is a classic example. Looked on from the outside, it seems like a form of lunacy.

    I sort of agree, but the type of food that gets sold in these offers is most often the ultra processed crap. The disgraceful issue is that, especially in the UK, it's the only sort of food that struggling families can afford. That shitty food is poisoning them, making them obese and unhealthy. Which then costs the taxpayer untold fortunes in healthcare.
    If government has one job, it's to look after its population. Unfortunately, Big Food is too powerful for the government to take on, so poor people are going to have to eat the only food they can afford.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    edited June 2023

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This sounds familiar to readers of PB.

    https://www.takimag.com/article/conversations-with-cabbies/

    "Conversations With Cabbies
    Theodore Dalrymple

    Many a foreign correspondent, sent to an obscure country of which he knows nothing but which has suddenly drawn the world’s attention to itself by a terrible but soon-to-be-forgotten crisis, has based his report from the country on what the taxi driver told him on the way from the airport to the country’s one five-star hotel, at whose bar he will soon be sitting.

    This is lazy, but not necessarily stupid, for taxi drivers are often well-informed, having overheard a great deal; and they are besides blessed with that knowledge of human nature that derives from experience rather than from reading or theorizing. They are often derided as being prejudiced, but there is no one more prejudiced than he who has a theory to preserve against all evidence.

    I have had many delightful and illuminating discussions with taxi drivers. In Paris, an African driver told me that he was returning to Senegal in order to be freer than he was in France. I knew what he meant: In many respects, life is freer in Africa than it is in Europe, provided only (and it is an important proviso) that you have a little money. Regulation in Africa is much less oppressive and restrictive than in Europe, and such regulations as there are can easily be got round by a little bribery. Bribery is much more efficient than bureaucracy, especially when the latter is large and honest (there is nothing like size and honesty to render a bureaucracy stupid)."

    Having done business in Europe and Africa, this is completely wrong.

    I mean, not just a little wrong, but wildly inaccurate.

    It's taken me over a year to get companies registered in Africa. In no country in Europe will it take more than an hour.

    Oil companies will choose to import even the most basic of components from the developed world, rather that getting them made locally in Africa, because (once you account for the time and the bribes), it's cheaper. And I mean dramatically cheaper.

    Yes it’s utter nonsense from beginning to end

    Any country that relies on bribery is going to be a nightmare to do business in, and probably to live in
    Is Italy a nightmare to live in?
    Calabria yes. Naples generally yes. Sicily often
    Good food though.
    Too hot for me, but a villa outside Naples is hardly a hellish way to live out one’s years. Worked for Gore Vidal.
    Most people in Campania do not live in villas on the Amalfi coast

    Today is one of your special Stupid Days, isn’t it?
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,069

    I support TeamGB (though should be TeamUK) in the Olympics, and New Zealand of course.

    Otherwise I support any team, bar South Africa, playing England in rugby or cricket.

    If we're doing "Who do we support" posts, then I support England (or UK), France (unless they're playing England, which in Cricket doesn't happen very often!), and have a soft spot for Wales since I have two Welsh step kids.

    I'm also a super duper Euro Federalist, so if I fit the stereotype I suppose should hate supporting England! If there's a European team I guess I'd support them, but the only European Team I know of is in Golf, which I don't watch.
  • northern_monkeynorthern_monkey Posts: 1,640
    But, but, but Covid! Ukraine! Germany’s in recession!

    Wibble wibble wibble.








  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,691

    If the people of Hamtranck don’t want a Pride parade, great. That’s democracy.

    There’s no inalienable right to have the local council fly Pride flags.

    Maybe not but the absurdity of a new majority curtailing the freedom of a previously supportive minority is a little galling.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,069
    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    Sandpit said:

    ... out here in the sandpit...

    I know you mean "Middle Eastern country with a desert, many expats, and soundproofed torture chambers", but I keep thinking it's a "virtual-reality occupant of a computer-generated environment segregated to allow experimentation/development". It is an odd picture... :smiley:

    The apartheid system in the Sandpit works well for those with money and either Western or Emirati nationality. Not so much for the South Asian and Philipino construction and retail workers living in barracks without rights.
    Or LGBTQ people
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,318
    edited June 2023
    Leon said:

    If the people of Hamtranck don’t want a Pride parade, great. That’s democracy.

    There’s no inalienable right to have the local council fly Pride flags.

    You don’t believe that, eventually, it might go a bit further than “banning Pride flags”?

    And if you were a homosexual in this town, right now, how would you be feeling? Safe? Pleased? Air punching and shouting “yay American democracy”?
    I like the idea that Americans - including Muslims - can go and do their thing and pursue their happiness.

    I don’t know where it might go, but presumably only up the point federal law allows.

    I accept there’s a clash of values here, but personally I privilege democratic and liberal freedom over left-leaning virtue signalling, which is essentially what municipal pride flags are.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    As Leon cruising through the great Commonwealth of Kentucky -

    Blue Moon of Kentucky - Bill Monroe and his Bluegrass Boys
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4syA9aNnNa0

    Kentucky Rain - Elvis Presley
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Czuc4q4axqU

    Paradise - John Prine
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2keQVXn36M
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,468
    stodge said:

    I presume we've covered the Redfield & Wilton poll on the London Mayor:

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/london-mayoral-election-voting-intention-10-12-june-2023/

    Sadiq Khan holds a narrow but convincing lead - there are some interesting details. He trails the unnamed Conservative candidate 38-35 among men but has a 21-point lead (48-27) among women.

    Khan leads 40-29 in Inner London and 42-36 in Outer London.

    None of this should be conflated into Westminster VI - there are clearly a core of Labour GE voters who aren't fans of Sadiq Khan.

    There was also a piece in the Standard on Thursday (I think) suggesting links between anti-ULEZ campaigners and both climate change deniers and anti-vaccine protesters. The fact Conservatives now seem to have found common cause with Piers Corbyn in opposing ULEZ is illuminating.

    Khan solidly ahead in Outer London, even with the fear of ULEZ? Blimey.

    (There's Outer London and Really Outer London, of course- boroughs like Waltham Forest have embraced their Londonness whereas Havering would rather be Out of London than Outer London. But if the Conservatives are confined to the fringe of the fringe, they have a problem. Having said that, Uxbridge looks like it's outer outer, which is what gives the Conservatives a chance at the by-election.)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,145
    Leon said:

    Another KY site/sight for Leon to consider, is a flying visit to the late Queen Elizabeth's favorite American destination - Lexington.

    The historical, cultural and economic hub of famed Bluegrass region, where geology (lots of limestone), climate and other factors combine to create perhaps the best natural horse raising, rearing and racing complex this side of the Curragh of Kildare.

    https://kyhorsepark.com/equine-theme-park/museums/international-museum-of-the-horse/

    Museum of the Horse is worth a visit; while downtown see the girlhood home of Mary Todd Lincoln and campuses of Transylvania University (famed not for Dracula studies but rather as the first college west of the Allegheny mountains) and the University of Kentucky (famed as a major NCAA Div 1 men's basketball powerhouse.

    My guess is that, if Leon swings though Lexington, he will find bit less of the US urban blight than he's so keen on.

    You are superlatively well-travelled.
    Naw, certainly nothing compared to you and MANY other peripatetic PBs.

    Just have been where I've been - and that happens to include where Leon happens to be now.

    I confess I am un-enthused by “the museum of the horse”

    However I might check out Lexington. I have two full days left - with not much left to see
    This place would be interesting culturally:

    BBC News - Noah's Ark theme park opens in Kentucky with life-size model
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36737185

    Not too far away, I think if it's still open. It was damaged in a flood...
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,903
    CatMan said:

    I support TeamGB (though should be TeamUK) in the Olympics, and New Zealand of course.

    Otherwise I support any team, bar South Africa, playing England in rugby or cricket.

    If we're doing "Who do we support" posts, then I support England (or UK), France (unless they're playing England, which in Cricket doesn't happen very often!), and have a soft spot for Wales since I have two Welsh step kids.

    I'm also a super duper Euro Federalist, so if I fit the stereotype I suppose should hate supporting England! If there's a European team I guess I'd support them, but the only European Team I know of is in Golf, which I don't watch.
    Scotland in football, or England if they're not playing Scotland. England in the cricket although I don't mind if they lose to the Windies or Sri Lanka. Andy Murray in the tennis. I don't really care about any other sport, team GB in the Olympics I suppose.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Re: Hamtramck, a small inner suburban city completely surrounded by Detroit, used to be a dominated by POLISH immigrants and their immediate descendants.

    These days, the Poles have mostly left for the outer burbs, and been replaced mainly by Arab Americans, who are (and have been for a while) bigger share of population in Wayne Co and rest of greater Motown than in most of rest of USA.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,903
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Another KY site/sight for Leon to consider, is a flying visit to the late Queen Elizabeth's favorite American destination - Lexington.

    The historical, cultural and economic hub of famed Bluegrass region, where geology (lots of limestone), climate and other factors combine to create perhaps the best natural horse raising, rearing and racing complex this side of the Curragh of Kildare.

    https://kyhorsepark.com/equine-theme-park/museums/international-museum-of-the-horse/

    Museum of the Horse is worth a visit; while downtown see the girlhood home of Mary Todd Lincoln and campuses of Transylvania University (famed not for Dracula studies but rather as the first college west of the Allegheny mountains) and the University of Kentucky (famed as a major NCAA Div 1 men's basketball powerhouse.

    My guess is that, if Leon swings though Lexington, he will find bit less of the US urban blight than he's so keen on.

    You are superlatively well-travelled.
    Naw, certainly nothing compared to you and MANY other peripatetic PBs.

    Just have been where I've been - and that happens to include where Leon happens to be now.

    I confess I am un-enthused by “the museum of the horse”

    However I might check out Lexington. I have two full days left - with not much left to see
    This place would be interesting culturally:

    BBC News - Noah's Ark theme park opens in Kentucky with life-size model
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36737185

    Not too far away, I think if it's still open. It was damaged in a flood...
    How do they know its a life-size model?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,395

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Another KY site/sight for Leon to consider, is a flying visit to the late Queen Elizabeth's favorite American destination - Lexington.

    The historical, cultural and economic hub of famed Bluegrass region, where geology (lots of limestone), climate and other factors combine to create perhaps the best natural horse raising, rearing and racing complex this side of the Curragh of Kildare.

    https://kyhorsepark.com/equine-theme-park/museums/international-museum-of-the-horse/

    Museum of the Horse is worth a visit; while downtown see the girlhood home of Mary Todd Lincoln and campuses of Transylvania University (famed not for Dracula studies but rather as the first college west of the Allegheny mountains) and the University of Kentucky (famed as a major NCAA Div 1 men's basketball powerhouse.

    My guess is that, if Leon swings though Lexington, he will find bit less of the US urban blight than he's so keen on.

    You are superlatively well-travelled.
    Naw, certainly nothing compared to you and MANY other peripatetic PBs.

    Just have been where I've been - and that happens to include where Leon happens to be now.

    I confess I am un-enthused by “the museum of the horse”

    However I might check out Lexington. I have two full days left - with not much left to see
    This place would be interesting culturally:

    BBC News - Noah's Ark theme park opens in Kentucky with life-size model
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36737185

    Not too far away, I think if it's still open. It was damaged in a flood...
    How do they know its a life-size model?
    Dimensions given in the Bible. Not sure how they know the *shape* is right. One wonders about the block coefficient, the lines at the cutwater and deadwood, etc. etc.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Leon said:

    Another KY site/sight for Leon to consider, is a flying visit to the late Queen Elizabeth's favorite American destination - Lexington.

    The historical, cultural and economic hub of famed Bluegrass region, where geology (lots of limestone), climate and other factors combine to create perhaps the best natural horse raising, rearing and racing complex this side of the Curragh of Kildare.

    https://kyhorsepark.com/equine-theme-park/museums/international-museum-of-the-horse/

    Museum of the Horse is worth a visit; while downtown see the girlhood home of Mary Todd Lincoln and campuses of Transylvania University (famed not for Dracula studies but rather as the first college west of the Allegheny mountains) and the University of Kentucky (famed as a major NCAA Div 1 men's basketball powerhouse.

    My guess is that, if Leon swings though Lexington, he will find bit less of the US urban blight than he's so keen on.

    You are superlatively well-travelled.
    Naw, certainly nothing compared to you and MANY other peripatetic PBs.

    Just have been where I've been - and that happens to include where Leon happens to be now.

    I confess I am un-enthused by “the museum of the horse”

    However I might check out Lexington. I have two full days left - with not much left to see
    Don't need to go to the museum to get a sense - and occasional whiff - of Bluegrass horsey-ness.

    Just drive around and see the miles and miles and miles of white picket fences enclosing acres and acres and acres of the best horse pasturage in the world.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,318

    But, but, but Covid! Ukraine! Germany’s in recession!

    Wibble wibble wibble.








    It’s pretty obvious to me that Brexit accounts for some of the UK’s inflation persistence. Screwing up your supply chains is going to do that.

    By extension then, it’s also to blame, partly, for higher interest rates.

    Not massively, but it’s in the mix, and it’s all part of the story as to why global investment has soured on the UK.

    Intel has just announced a massive investment in Ireland and other EU countries, in support of a European semiconductor supply chain.

    UK is sitting on the sidelines, going nowhere fast.
    There’s a shift of employment being picked up from higher value, exportable services into lower value ones. A kind of deindustrialisation.

    I’m still hopeful that a change in government will change the overall narrative.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    Leon said:

    Another KY site/sight for Leon to consider, is a flying visit to the late Queen Elizabeth's favorite American destination - Lexington.

    The historical, cultural and economic hub of famed Bluegrass region, where geology (lots of limestone), climate and other factors combine to create perhaps the best natural horse raising, rearing and racing complex this side of the Curragh of Kildare.

    https://kyhorsepark.com/equine-theme-park/museums/international-museum-of-the-horse/

    Museum of the Horse is worth a visit; while downtown see the girlhood home of Mary Todd Lincoln and campuses of Transylvania University (famed not for Dracula studies but rather as the first college west of the Allegheny mountains) and the University of Kentucky (famed as a major NCAA Div 1 men's basketball powerhouse.

    My guess is that, if Leon swings though Lexington, he will find bit less of the US urban blight than he's so keen on.

    You are superlatively well-travelled.
    Naw, certainly nothing compared to you and MANY other peripatetic PBs.

    Just have been where I've been - and that happens to include where Leon happens to be now.

    I confess I am un-enthused by “the museum of the horse”

    However I might check out Lexington. I have two full days left - with not much left to see
    Don't need to go to the museum to get a sense - and occasional whiff - of Bluegrass horsey-ness.

    Just drive around and see the miles and miles and miles of white picket fences enclosing acres and acres and acres of the best horse pasturage in the world.
    You forgot to mention that Big Bone Lick State Park is on….. Beaver Road
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,069
    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Another KY site/sight for Leon to consider, is a flying visit to the late Queen Elizabeth's favorite American destination - Lexington.

    The historical, cultural and economic hub of famed Bluegrass region, where geology (lots of limestone), climate and other factors combine to create perhaps the best natural horse raising, rearing and racing complex this side of the Curragh of Kildare.

    https://kyhorsepark.com/equine-theme-park/museums/international-museum-of-the-horse/

    Museum of the Horse is worth a visit; while downtown see the girlhood home of Mary Todd Lincoln and campuses of Transylvania University (famed not for Dracula studies but rather as the first college west of the Allegheny mountains) and the University of Kentucky (famed as a major NCAA Div 1 men's basketball powerhouse.

    My guess is that, if Leon swings though Lexington, he will find bit less of the US urban blight than he's so keen on.

    You are superlatively well-travelled.
    Naw, certainly nothing compared to you and MANY other peripatetic PBs.

    Just have been where I've been - and that happens to include where Leon happens to be now.

    I confess I am un-enthused by “the museum of the horse”

    However I might check out Lexington. I have two full days left - with not much left to see
    This place would be interesting culturally:

    BBC News - Noah's Ark theme park opens in Kentucky with life-size model
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36737185

    Not too far away, I think if it's still open. It was damaged in a flood...
    How do they know its a life-size model?
    Dimensions given in the Bible. Not sure how they know the *shape* is right. One wonders about the block coefficient, the lines at the cutwater and deadwood, etc. etc.
    Steve Smith* has explained why the story of Noah's Ark doesn't make sense.

    *No, not that one...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDDJHLvZ8RM&ab_channel=MelvinsaurusRex
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591

    Britain is hideously over-bureaucratised.

    The buy-one-get-one-free ban (now simply delayed by two years) is a classic example. Looked on from the outside, it seems like a form of lunacy.

    I think we are in some kind of feedback loop where having done some it feeds more and more until everything must be covered.

    I know bureaucrats, I have been a bureaucrat, I don't hold with blaming bureaucracy for what are actualy policy choices, but it does feel like the go to move for pretty much anyone in politics now is to ban this, regulate that, add bureucracy to this. Even those who might seem against it are not, when it is their hobby horse.

    Libertarian types are usually bonkers and hypocritical to boot, but you can have some sympathy about interference when you see this type of thing.
This discussion has been closed.