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Sunak’s position has got stronger during the week – politicalbetting.com

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  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,929
    What are the odds on Australia making 500?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,672

    I never understood why it should be a problem that people of Indian or Pakistani heritage should support those countries’ cricket teams against England, or that people of Caribbean heritage should support the West Indies. I mean, what is the problem with that? It’s sport not anything important. The Tebbit test was always entirely unreasonable and illogical - a dogwhistle, nothing more.

    But the 'issue' today seems to be whether it is okay for such people to support England. I'm not sure if Collins' tweet is meant to be taken seriously. It could be a misunderstood joke.

    On thread I suspect Mike is right but that could be confirmation bias and the Tory beast is somewhat unpredictable to me.
    He’s deleted and explained it was supposed to be ironic but that he sees how that did not come across. It was an awful Tweet.

    https://twitter.com/spajw/status/1669991121651466241?s=46&t=rw5lNVUgmRPVyKpxfV_pPQ

    People can support whoever they want in sport. It doesn’t matter - except in the moment. That said, I will always feel a kinship to Spurs fans. Constant misery and suffering does create a bond!!

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,145

    DM_Andy said:

    At least Rishi knows what football club he supports unlike David Cameron.

    Which middle-eastern despot does Rishi support?
    Southampton FC.

    Owned by Sport Republic who are Balkan run I think.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779
    Looking at the Wikipedia page on the 'Cricket Test', it's quite funny to see a quote from Tebbit in 2018 that suggests that he doesn't even remember what the test was:
    "The Tebbit Test is immaterial now," he told The Indian Express. "If I were in charge of cricket, football or athletics in the country, I would be choosing British-Asians, Blacks and people from Ethiopia. I cheer for them. The race isn't an issue like it used to be. The time to talk stuff like ‘whether it’s in the blood’ is gone now. It has gradually washed away. Assimilation has already occurred. The more non-ethnic English get into the English cricket team, the more it will become obvious that the door is open to full integration."
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,711
    Sunak is the tail-ender who goes for the century to clinch the match as his wicket is rolled by the best of the other side.

    Will he get it?

    I don't know, but the batting is impressive regardless.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,153
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    I never understood why it should be a problem that people of Indian or Pakistani heritage should support those countries’ cricket teams against England, or that people of Caribbean heritage should support the West Indies. I mean, what is the problem with that? It’s sport not anything important. The Tebbit test was always entirely unreasonable and illogical - a dogwhistle, nothing more.

    Some people's political ideology demands the individual is subordinated to [God, royalty, one nation, your betters, your elders, ...]. The idea of picking and choosing is, for them, anathema. You have your place and you have responsibilities towards the hierarchy in which you find yourself.

    It's the mindset that leads to weird ideas like criticising "citizens of nowhere".
    Some years ago, I was at a City dinner.

    The conversation was getting boring - Brexit, Brexit…

    So I raised the topic of the ex Cameron advisor who’d questioned whether he should prioritise U.K. people over foreigners in terms of aid.

    A number of people approved.

    An HAC chap pointed out that this choose-your-own loyalty lark sounded great. As it happened he was, that weekend, in charge of a large group of armed soldiers - maybe the largest armed body of soldiers in London….

    He and I started trading jokes about Operation Angel (run by a one armed, one eyed colonel in the MoD), but stopped when we saw the seriousness with which we were being taken
    So... you met a bloke?
    You don’t meet people? You really should. Speak to one new person a day. Especially people who are different from you.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,302
    Cicero said:

    Farooq said:

    I never understood why it should be a problem that people of Indian or Pakistani heritage should support those countries’ cricket teams against England, or that people of Caribbean heritage should support the West Indies. I mean, what is the problem with that? It’s sport not anything important. The Tebbit test was always entirely unreasonable and illogical - a dogwhistle, nothing more.

    Some people's political ideology demands the individual is subordinated to [God, royalty, one nation, your betters, your elders, ...]. The idea of picking and choosing is, for them, anathema. You have your place and you have responsibilities towards the hierarchy in which you find yourself.

    It's the mindset that leads to weird ideas like criticising "citizens of nowhere".
    One of the most disgraceful speeches ever given by a serving British Prime Minister. It rejected any compromise Brexit and set a course for the Hard Brexit which is now the cause of much of our current economic travails. At the same time it blamed those who opposed Brexit for not supporting what they did not and do not believe in.
    If any speech by a serving British Prime Minister set a course for the Hard Brexit that is peripheral to much of our current economic travails, surely it was David Cameron saying that a vote for Leave meant a vote to leave the single market and there would be no going back and no second referendum.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,558

    Sunak is the tail-ender who goes for the century to clinch the match as his wicket is rolled by the best of the other side.

    Will he get it?

    I don't know, but the batting is impressive regardless.

    Or to borrow from Geoffrey Howe, Sunak has gone into bat to save the match having had his bat broken by the two teammates ahead of him in the order.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,959
    Broad on a hat trick.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,035
    Ooh. Wickets!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,976
    Sandpit said:

    Ooh. Wickets!

    Awesome catch by Bairstow.

    Shame on anyone who doubted him and wanted Foakes.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,352
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Farooq said:

    Very minor, but good decision on bogof to delay but implement when the economy and prices more stable. Little things, like getting these right first time rather than u-turning after sending Shapps out to pledge absolutely no u-turns, are probably going to be one of the main differences between Sunak and Johnson.

    The real point of The Tebbit Test was not about cricket. It was which side people will cheer for when buses explode….
    Pretty predictably dumb of him to choose the England cricket team a symbol of national unity in that case.

    ‘You Jocks not happy to be bored shitless by an endless Boycott innings? Traitors, you might as well join the IRA!’
    I know quite a few Scots who support England for cricket. I guess they are not true Scots in your ideal of racial purity and obsession with the Saltire. Nothing that a good bit of ethnic cleansing wouldn't sort out eh?
    You're completely insane
    Could there be bigger racist arsehole than that idiot, someone Scottish must have pulled his pigtails at some time.
    Hey Mr Thicky! I wondered when you would start your infantile abuse. Independence is dooooomed. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahah. Anglophobe racist Scottish nationalists have only ever had two FMs. Both have been the subject of criminal investigations.
    Get back on your meds pyscho
    Projecting again are you Malc? Here is the odd thing about Scottish Nationalism. There definitely are shades. It is a bit like Brexit followers. In fact, very like Brexit followers. You are the equivalent of an extreme Faragist. Based on your posts, and using a little deduction, I'd guess you are fairly short (often accounts for anger), bald and very overweight. You are over retirement age but still having to work, somewhere like Halfords or Tesco - nothing wrong with that but it makes you very bitter.

    You are an extremist: a misogynist homophobe with a racist hatred toward the English, probably because you once had a teacher who was English, maybe female, that you didn't like. Now here is a thing Mr. Thicky: I am not racially pure English! maybe that is even more things for you to hate about me?

    I genuinely feel sorry for anyone like you that has so much hate and anger. I also feel sorry for the other nationalists on here that don't disassociate themselves from you. You are the very very ugly face of nationalism. The stereotype.

    Like this bunch of Scottish Nat fascists (I bet you and @Theuniondivvie and possibly @Farooq approve of this behaviour): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5Ewu5A-fJA
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    The longevity of the Broad/Anderson partnership is just extraordinary.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,959

    I never understood why it should be a problem that people of Indian or Pakistani heritage should support those countries’ cricket teams against England, or that people of Caribbean heritage should support the West Indies. I mean, what is the problem with that? It’s sport not anything important. The Tebbit test was always entirely unreasonable and illogical - a dogwhistle, nothing more.

    If sport isn't important for someone they wouldn't watch it.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,153
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    I never understood why it should be a problem that people of Indian or Pakistani heritage should support those countries’ cricket teams against England, or that people of Caribbean heritage should support the West Indies. I mean, what is the problem with that? It’s sport not anything important. The Tebbit test was always entirely unreasonable and illogical - a dogwhistle, nothing more.

    Some people's political ideology demands the individual is subordinated to [God, royalty, one nation, your betters, your elders, ...]. The idea of picking and choosing is, for them, anathema. You have your place and you have responsibilities towards the hierarchy in which you find yourself.

    It's the mindset that leads to weird ideas like criticising "citizens of nowhere".
    Some years ago, I was at a City dinner.

    The conversation was getting boring - Brexit, Brexit…

    So I raised the topic of the ex Cameron advisor who’d questioned whether he should prioritise U.K. people over foreigners in terms of aid.

    A number of people approved.

    An HAC chap pointed out that this choose-your-own loyalty lark sounded great. As it happened he was, that weekend, in charge of a large group of armed soldiers - maybe the largest armed body of soldiers in London….

    He and I started trading jokes about Operation Angel (run by a one armed, one eyed colonel in the MoD), but stopped when we saw the seriousness with which we were being taken
    So... you met a bloke?
    You don’t meet people? You really should. Speak to one new person a day. Especially people who are different from you.
    I tried it once. It was horrible.
    “If you meet one person and they are an asshole, you met an asshole. If you meet assholes all day long, you’re the asshole”
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,395
    Chris said:

    Looking at the Wikipedia page on the 'Cricket Test', it's quite funny to see a quote from Tebbit in 2018 that suggests that he doesn't even remember what the test was:
    "The Tebbit Test is immaterial now," he told The Indian Express. "If I were in charge of cricket, football or athletics in the country, I would be choosing British-Asians, Blacks and people from Ethiopia. I cheer for them. The race isn't an issue like it used to be. The time to talk stuff like ‘whether it’s in the blood’ is gone now. It has gradually washed away. Assimilation has already occurred. The more non-ethnic English get into the English cricket team, the more it will become obvious that the door is open to full integration."

    It's all very odd. I'm not interested in cricket (though there is a thriving local club). But according to some on here my failure to support England at cricket is evidence of rabid right-wing nationalism. I don't even support Scotland at footie ...
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,167
    Chris said:

    Looking at the Wikipedia page on the 'Cricket Test', it's quite funny to see a quote from Tebbit in 2018 that suggests that he doesn't even remember what the test was:
    "The Tebbit Test is immaterial now," he told The Indian Express. "If I were in charge of cricket, football or athletics in the country, I would be choosing British-Asians, Blacks and people from Ethiopia. I cheer for them. The race isn't an issue like it used to be. The time to talk stuff like ‘whether it’s in the blood’ is gone now. It has gradually washed away. Assimilation has already occurred. The more non-ethnic English get into the English cricket team, the more it will become obvious that the door is open to full integration."

    I'm wondering when Tebbit thinks it was the time to talk stuff like ‘whether it’s in the blood’?
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    Gotta get Smith, gotta get Smith …
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,153
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    I never understood why it should be a problem that people of Indian or Pakistani heritage should support those countries’ cricket teams against England, or that people of Caribbean heritage should support the West Indies. I mean, what is the problem with that? It’s sport not anything important. The Tebbit test was always entirely unreasonable and illogical - a dogwhistle, nothing more.

    Some people's political ideology demands the individual is subordinated to [God, royalty, one nation, your betters, your elders, ...]. The idea of picking and choosing is, for them, anathema. You have your place and you have responsibilities towards the hierarchy in which you find yourself.

    It's the mindset that leads to weird ideas like criticising "citizens of nowhere".
    Some years ago, I was at a City dinner.

    The conversation was getting boring - Brexit, Brexit…

    So I raised the topic of the ex Cameron advisor who’d questioned whether he should prioritise U.K. people over foreigners in terms of aid.

    A number of people approved.

    An HAC chap pointed out that this choose-your-own loyalty lark sounded great. As it happened he was, that weekend, in charge of a large group of armed soldiers - maybe the largest armed body of soldiers in London….

    He and I started trading jokes about Operation Angel (run by a one armed, one eyed colonel in the MoD), but stopped when we saw the seriousness with which we were being taken
    So... you met a bloke?
    You don’t meet people? You really should. Speak to one new person a day. Especially people who are different from you.
    I tried it once. It was horrible.
    “If you meet one person and they are an asshole, you met an asshole. If you meet assholes all day long, you’re the asshole”
    Oh I'm definitely an arsehole. I don't think anyone doubts that.
    You are about 0.75 out of 10 on the @malcolmg scale.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,352
    Farooq said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Farooq said:

    Very minor, but good decision on bogof to delay but implement when the economy and prices more stable. Little things, like getting these right first time rather than u-turning after sending Shapps out to pledge absolutely no u-turns, are probably going to be one of the main differences between Sunak and Johnson.

    The real point of The Tebbit Test was not about cricket. It was which side people will cheer for when buses explode….
    Pretty predictably dumb of him to choose the England cricket team a symbol of national unity in that case.

    ‘You Jocks not happy to be bored shitless by an endless Boycott innings? Traitors, you might as well join the IRA!’
    I know quite a few Scots who support England for cricket. I guess they are not true Scots in your ideal of racial purity and obsession with the Saltire. Nothing that a good bit of ethnic cleansing wouldn't sort out eh?
    You're completely insane
    Could there be bigger racist arsehole than that idiot, someone Scottish must have pulled his pigtails at some time.
    Hey Mr Thicky! I wondered when you would start your infantile abuse. Independence is dooooomed. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahah. Anglophobe racist Scottish nationalists have only ever had two FMs. Both have been the subject of criminal investigations.
    Get back on your meds pyscho
    Projecting again are you Malc? Here is the odd thing about Scottish Nationalism. There definitely are shades. It is a bit like Brexit followers. In fact, very like Brexit followers. You are the equivalent of an extreme Faragist. Based on your posts, and using a little deduction, I'd guess you are fairly short (often accounts for anger), bald and very overweight. You are over retirement age but still having to work, somewhere like Halfords or Tesco - nothing wrong with that but it makes you very bitter.

    You are an extremist: a misogynist homophobe with a racist hatred toward the English, probably because you once had a teacher who was English, maybe female, that you didn't like. Now here is a thing Mr. Thicky: I am not racially pure English! maybe that is even more things for you to hate about me?

    I genuinely feel sorry for anyone like you that has so much hate and anger. I also feel sorry for the other nationalists on here that don't disassociate themselves from you. You are the very very ugly face of nationalism. The stereotype.

    Like this bunch of Scottish Nat fascists (I bet you and @Theuniondivvie and possibly @Farooq approve of this behaviour): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5Ewu5A-fJA
    No mate, I don't approve of that behaviour. Not that I would call it fascism. Something doesn't have to be fascism for us to think it stupid and nasty.

    But you know, the way you and malcolm go at each is actually the same. I think you both think you're cleverer than the other but you aren't. You're both idiots.
    OK, let me explain . Malcolm is an objectionable rude cynical little prat of very low intellect that makes zero contribution to this otherwise fun site. He is rude to pretty much everyone, and he makes boring low-intellect comments that essentially add up to his cynical belief that everyone is on the make except his idol Alex Salmond.

    On the contrary, I don't think he thinks he is cleverer than me because he knows he is stupid. He has no wit, just abuse. I respond to him when he is rude. Otherwise I ignore him. I do respond to other Nats like @Theuniondivvie when they make remarks that are essentially divisive (referring to his idea of wit which include the words "Scotch" and "Jocks" which are code for his own Anglophobia) When I respond to this nonsense it normally draws in playground abuse from Malcolm.

    I personally don't think you are an idiot. In fact I quite like your posts. It is obviously up to you, but maybe you should get off your high horse and stop being an apologist for arseholes like Malcolm perhaps?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,149
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    I never understood why it should be a problem that people of Indian or Pakistani heritage should support those countries’ cricket teams against England, or that people of Caribbean heritage should support the West Indies. I mean, what is the problem with that? It’s sport not anything important. The Tebbit test was always entirely unreasonable and illogical - a dogwhistle, nothing more.

    Some people's political ideology demands the individual is subordinated to [God, royalty, one nation, your betters, your elders, ...]. The idea of picking and choosing is, for them, anathema. You have your place and you have responsibilities towards the hierarchy in which you find yourself.

    It's the mindset that leads to weird ideas like criticising "citizens of nowhere".
    Some years ago, I was at a City dinner.

    The conversation was getting boring - Brexit, Brexit…

    So I raised the topic of the ex Cameron advisor who’d questioned whether he should prioritise U.K. people over foreigners in terms of aid.

    A number of people approved.

    An HAC chap pointed out that this choose-your-own loyalty lark sounded great. As it happened he was, that weekend, in charge of a large group of armed soldiers - maybe the largest armed body of soldiers in London….

    He and I started trading jokes about Operation Angel (run by a one armed, one eyed colonel in the MoD), but stopped when we saw the seriousness with which we were being taken
    So... you met a bloke?
    You don’t meet people? You really should. Speak to one new person a day. Especially people who are different from you.
    I tried it once. It was horrible.
    “If you meet one person and they are an asshole, you met an asshole. If you meet assholes all day long, you’re the asshole”
    Oh I'm definitely an arsehole. I don't think anyone doubts that.
    - "I guess I was wrong about you. You're not such an asshole after all!"

    - "Oh, you were right about me. I'm just your kind of asshole!"
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779

    Chris said:

    Looking at the Wikipedia page on the 'Cricket Test', it's quite funny to see a quote from Tebbit in 2018 that suggests that he doesn't even remember what the test was:
    "The Tebbit Test is immaterial now," he told The Indian Express. "If I were in charge of cricket, football or athletics in the country, I would be choosing British-Asians, Blacks and people from Ethiopia. I cheer for them. The race isn't an issue like it used to be. The time to talk stuff like ‘whether it’s in the blood’ is gone now. It has gradually washed away. Assimilation has already occurred. The more non-ethnic English get into the English cricket team, the more it will become obvious that the door is open to full integration."

    I'm wondering when Tebbit thinks it was the time to talk stuff like ‘whether it’s in the blood’?
    The funny thing is that judging from that 2018 quotation, by then Tebbit remembered the Cricket Test as "coloureds shouldn't be picked to play for England".
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,153

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    I never understood why it should be a problem that people of Indian or Pakistani heritage should support those countries’ cricket teams against England, or that people of Caribbean heritage should support the West Indies. I mean, what is the problem with that? It’s sport not anything important. The Tebbit test was always entirely unreasonable and illogical - a dogwhistle, nothing more.

    Some people's political ideology demands the individual is subordinated to [God, royalty, one nation, your betters, your elders, ...]. The idea of picking and choosing is, for them, anathema. You have your place and you have responsibilities towards the hierarchy in which you find yourself.

    It's the mindset that leads to weird ideas like criticising "citizens of nowhere".
    Some years ago, I was at a City dinner.

    The conversation was getting boring - Brexit, Brexit…

    So I raised the topic of the ex Cameron advisor who’d questioned whether he should prioritise U.K. people over foreigners in terms of aid.

    A number of people approved.

    An HAC chap pointed out that this choose-your-own loyalty lark sounded great. As it happened he was, that weekend, in charge of a large group of armed soldiers - maybe the largest armed body of soldiers in London….

    He and I started trading jokes about Operation Angel (run by a one armed, one eyed colonel in the MoD), but stopped when we saw the seriousness with which we were being taken
    So... you met a bloke?
    You don’t meet people? You really should. Speak to one new person a day. Especially people who are different from you.
    I tried it once. It was horrible.
    “If you meet one person and they are an asshole, you met an asshole. If you meet assholes all day long, you’re the asshole”
    Oh I'm definitely an arsehole. I don't think anyone doubts that.
    - "I guess I was wrong about you. You're not such an asshole after all!"

    - "Oh, you were right about me. I'm just your kind of asshole!"
    An interesting portrayal of repressed anger.

    Bit like in “Life” but not as weird.
  • Forget the cricket, the Leogang DH World Cup Elite finals are about to start. Rachel Atherton looks good, but Holl, Hoffman and Balanche are all on fire. The men's looks like a shootout between Bruni and Iles, but the Brits Greenland, Kerr, Williams and Walker could all pull something out of the bag.
    As an aside, it's gone PPV this season, I'm paying 6 quid a month to Discovery Plus for it....the quality is crap. Crap presenters (no Rob Warner), they keep missing key points like riders crashing, and we've currently lost the commentary. No one seems to know what's happening, and I'm wondering if I can get my money back and find a torrent!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,153
    Farooq said:

    Chris said:

    Looking at the Wikipedia page on the 'Cricket Test', it's quite funny to see a quote from Tebbit in 2018 that suggests that he doesn't even remember what the test was:
    "The Tebbit Test is immaterial now," he told The Indian Express. "If I were in charge of cricket, football or athletics in the country, I would be choosing British-Asians, Blacks and people from Ethiopia. I cheer for them. The race isn't an issue like it used to be. The time to talk stuff like ‘whether it’s in the blood’ is gone now. It has gradually washed away. Assimilation has already occurred. The more non-ethnic English get into the English cricket team, the more it will become obvious that the door is open to full integration."

    I'm wondering when Tebbit thinks it was the time to talk stuff like ‘whether it’s in the blood’?
    It's an odd comment, isn't it? Sort of like "I want to distance myself from this but I don't want to say I was wrong either".

    I propose a Farooq test. If you go from one opinion to a contradictory one without passing through the "I was wrong" stage, you have to support Scotland's cricket team from then on.
    Slacker - what about the *Peruvian* cricket team?

    Hmmm. Come to think of it, which would I support in a Scotland vs Peru match?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,032

    Gotta get Smith, gotta get Smith …

    That is the test match. Get Smith early and England will have a serious lead. Stokes trying everything, even Brook.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,005

    Roger said:

    There was a man on Newsnight last night who was speaking for his friend whose wife had drowned in the boat tragedy off Greece. His story was a simple one. He had escaped from Syria four years ago where there is no work and no possible way of making a living and he was now living and studying in a university in Germany.

    His wife hadn't been able to get a visa to join him so after several frustrating years had tried the illegal route and had paid $4000 for a crossing.

    I can't remember hearing such a heartbreaking story from such a sympathetic character. All at once there was a story behind the ginning faces of Sunak and Braverman boasting about 'stopping the boats' and it made you feel disgusted

    Its heartbreaking. I think its complicated. We should stop the boats - because its insanely dangerous as this tragedy has yet again shown. The UK government needs to do this AND provide safe and legal routes to gain asylum in the UK. But there also needs an honest conversation about how many can come. I'm incredibly lucky to be born in the UK and have a great life. People round the world want that too. The answer cannot be that they all get to come to the west, at some point, people have to try to improve their own countries and the west should be an agent of that.
    Safe legal routes would do absolutely nothing to stop the boats.

    Unless you plan on letting anyone in who applies by a safe legal route what do you think those rejected are going to do? They are going to try and come by the current illegal routes.

    Safe legal routes would only work if we let in all that applied and that would not be feasible. We already have strained infrastructure and services due to too many people in the country and no sign that any party is going to do anything to fix that.
  • IcarusIcarus Posts: 994
    DavidL said:

    Gotta get Smith, gotta get Smith …

    That is the test match. Get Smith early and England will have a serious lead. Stokes trying everything, even Brook.
    I have a ticket for Tuesday - hoping for Australia to score 390 slowly!
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,136

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    I never understood why it should be a problem that people of Indian or Pakistani heritage should support those countries’ cricket teams against England, or that people of Caribbean heritage should support the West Indies. I mean, what is the problem with that? It’s sport not anything important. The Tebbit test was always entirely unreasonable and illogical - a dogwhistle, nothing more.

    Some people's political ideology demands the individual is subordinated to [God, royalty, one nation, your betters, your elders, ...]. The idea of picking and choosing is, for them, anathema. You have your place and you have responsibilities towards the hierarchy in which you find yourself.

    It's the mindset that leads to weird ideas like criticising "citizens of nowhere".
    Some years ago, I was at a City dinner.

    The conversation was getting boring - Brexit, Brexit…

    So I raised the topic of the ex Cameron advisor who’d questioned whether he should prioritise U.K. people over foreigners in terms of aid.

    A number of people approved.

    An HAC chap pointed out that this choose-your-own loyalty lark sounded great. As it happened he was, that weekend, in charge of a large group of armed soldiers - maybe the largest armed body of soldiers in London….

    He and I started trading jokes about Operation Angel (run by a one armed, one eyed colonel in the MoD), but stopped when we saw the seriousness with which we were being taken
    So... you met a bloke?
    You don’t meet people? You really should. Speak to one new person a day. Especially people who are different from you.
    I tried it once. It was horrible.
    “If you meet one person and they are an asshole, you met an asshole. If you meet assholes all day long, you’re the asshole”
    Rather like the story of the dissenting juror who had never met eleven such obstinate men in his life...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,914

    Sunak is the tail-ender who goes for the century to clinch the match as his wicket is rolled by the best of the other side.

    Will he get it?

    I don't know, but the batting is impressive regardless.

    Rishi is Garfield Sobers, Starmer is Malcolm Nash?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,976

    Sunak is the tail-ender who goes for the century to clinch the match as his wicket is rolled by the best of the other side.

    Will he get it?

    I don't know, but the batting is impressive regardless.

    Rishi is Garfield Sobers, Starmer is Malcolm Nash?
    Rishi = Alan Wells

    Starmer = Curtley Ambrose.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,914

    Sunak is the tail-ender who goes for the century to clinch the match as his wicket is rolled by the best of the other side.

    Will he get it?

    I don't know, but the batting is impressive regardless.

    Rishi is Garfield Sobers, Starmer is Malcolm Nash?
    Rishi = Alan Wells

    Starmer = Curtley Ambrose.
    LOL!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,153

    Sunak is the tail-ender who goes for the century to clinch the match as his wicket is rolled by the best of the other side.

    Will he get it?

    I don't know, but the batting is impressive regardless.

    Rishi is Garfield Sobers, Starmer is Malcolm Nash?
    Rishi = Alan Wells

    Starmer = Curtley Ambrose.
    Who is Robin Smith?
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    DavidL said:

    Gotta get Smith, gotta get Smith …

    That is the test match. Get Smith early and England will have a serious lead. Stokes trying everything, even Brook.
    And now Stokes trying … Stokes.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,149

    Sunak is the tail-ender who goes for the century to clinch the match as his wicket is rolled by the best of the other side.

    Will he get it?

    I don't know, but the batting is impressive regardless.

    Rishi is Garfield Sobers, Starmer is Malcolm Nash?
    Rishi = Alan Wells

    Starmer = Curtley Ambrose.
    Rishi = Vince Clarke

    Sir Keir = Alan Wilder
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,153
    edited June 2023
    Deleted
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,840

    This thread has been bowled out

    Que? Where's the new one?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,153
    pigeon said:

    This thread has been bowled out

    Que? Where's the new one?
    My bad
  • .

    pigeon said:

    This thread has been bowled out

    Que? Where's the new one?
    My bad
    Reference to the TMO, decision overruled.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331

    DavidL said:

    Gotta get Smith, gotta get Smith …

    That is the test match. Get Smith early and England will have a serious lead. Stokes trying everything, even Brook.
    And now Stokes trying … Stokes.
    And it’s worked!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,976
    Ben Stokes, I want to have your babies.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065

    Sunak is the tail-ender who goes for the century to clinch the match as his wicket is rolled by the best of the other side.

    Will he get it?

    I don't know, but the batting is impressive regardless.

    Rishi is Garfield Sobers, Starmer is Malcolm Nash?
    Rishi = Alan Wells

    Starmer = Curtley Ambrose.
    Who is Robin Smith?
    Liz Truss is Nasser Hussain on 7th November 2002.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,976

    Sunak is the tail-ender who goes for the century to clinch the match as his wicket is rolled by the best of the other side.

    Will he get it?

    I don't know, but the batting is impressive regardless.

    Rishi is Garfield Sobers, Starmer is Malcolm Nash?
    Rishi = Alan Wells

    Starmer = Curtley Ambrose.
    Who is Robin Smith?
    Trying to think of a politician whose career was ended by spin.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064
    The convicts in trouble here 👌
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065

    Ben Stokes, I want to have your babies.

    Let's not start the Trans debate again!
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065

    Sunak is the tail-ender who goes for the century to clinch the match as his wicket is rolled by the best of the other side.

    Will he get it?

    I don't know, but the batting is impressive regardless.

    Rishi is Garfield Sobers, Starmer is Malcolm Nash?
    Rishi = Alan Wells

    Starmer = Curtley Ambrose.
    Who is Robin Smith?
    Trying to think of a politician whose career was ended by spin.
    Andy Coulson
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,685
    eristdoof said:

    Sunak is the tail-ender who goes for the century to clinch the match as his wicket is rolled by the best of the other side.

    Will he get it?

    I don't know, but the batting is impressive regardless.

    Rishi is Garfield Sobers, Starmer is Malcolm Nash?
    Rishi = Alan Wells

    Starmer = Curtley Ambrose.
    Who is Robin Smith?
    Trying to think of a politician whose career was ended by spin.
    Andy Coulson
    John Major. Everyone still believes the underpants lie.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,976
    eristdoof said:

    Sunak is the tail-ender who goes for the century to clinch the match as his wicket is rolled by the best of the other side.

    Will he get it?

    I don't know, but the batting is impressive regardless.

    Rishi is Garfield Sobers, Starmer is Malcolm Nash?
    Rishi = Alan Wells

    Starmer = Curtley Ambrose.
    Who is Robin Smith?
    Trying to think of a politician whose career was ended by spin.
    Andy Coulson
    He wasn’t a politician.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,153
    eristdoof said:

    Sunak is the tail-ender who goes for the century to clinch the match as his wicket is rolled by the best of the other side.

    Will he get it?

    I don't know, but the batting is impressive regardless.

    Rishi is Garfield Sobers, Starmer is Malcolm Nash?
    Rishi = Alan Wells

    Starmer = Curtley Ambrose.
    Who is Robin Smith?
    Trying to think of a politician whose career was ended by spin.
    Andy Coulson
    Alistair Campbell
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065

    eristdoof said:

    Sunak is the tail-ender who goes for the century to clinch the match as his wicket is rolled by the best of the other side.

    Will he get it?

    I don't know, but the batting is impressive regardless.

    Rishi is Garfield Sobers, Starmer is Malcolm Nash?
    Rishi = Alan Wells

    Starmer = Curtley Ambrose.
    Who is Robin Smith?
    Trying to think of a politician whose career was ended by spin.
    Andy Coulson
    He wasn’t a politician.
    He was, but not an elected politician.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,153
    edited June 2023

    Ben Stokes, I want to have your babies.

    Are you being oppressed?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,468
    eristdoof said:

    Sunak is the tail-ender who goes for the century to clinch the match as his wicket is rolled by the best of the other side.

    Will he get it?

    I don't know, but the batting is impressive regardless.

    Rishi is Garfield Sobers, Starmer is Malcolm Nash?
    Rishi = Alan Wells

    Starmer = Curtley Ambrose.
    Who is Robin Smith?
    Liz Truss is Nasser Hussain on 7th November 2002.
    For all our sakes, let's hope the incoming Prime Minister isn't faced with conditions like Sabina Park, 29 January 1998.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,468
    Incidentally, has all of this cricket talk created a force field that our Russian chums realise that they dare not try to penetrate?
  • Seriously, Discovery Plus are to mountain
    biking commentary as Chris Kamara is to football commentary. Bring back RedBull!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,976

    Ben Stokes, I want to have your babies.

    Are you being oppressed?
    All the time.

    I’m from multiple minorities.

    Non white, privately educated for starters.

    My natural modesty also sees me oppressed.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,263

    Surely it's the last Labour Government that is to blame for the incoming recession.

    The bizarre “thing” about our system is this notion the BOE is prepared to tip the economy in to a recession curb inflation. How is that a sane / logical way forward?
    That’s pretty well every central bank in a western economy.
    There’s no good way to bring down inflation once it’s taken hold.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,772
    MaxPB said:

    The convicts in trouble here 👌

    When they make 600-4dec, I'm blaming you.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,263
    edited June 2023

    MaxPB said:



    Starmer needs to sack Collins for being a racist piece of shit.

    Isn’t supposed to be a (clumsy) joke, showing how we’ve moved on from the real racist shittery of the Tebbit test?
    Possibly, probably, but just polar opposite racist shittery. People of whatever colour or background can support whatever team they identify with most, or even the one whose clothes, or style of play they like best, and its all hunky dory. Limiting people with an Indian heritage to supporting India, even if they grew up somewhere else, is no better than limiting them to supporting England.
    As I said it’s clumsy, but I just thought it was lumbering irony, ie it’s obviously very much not a disgrace if someone of Indian heritage chooses not to support India. Shit joke, shit point, shit tweet, a very common combo.
    And it seems that we as a nation have collectively turned into Americans and can no longer detect irony.
    It’s rather that most haven’t learned that irony operates a little differently online, than it does in conversation or extended writing.

    This was Collins being crass rather than readers lacking a sense of humour.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,167
    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:



    Starmer needs to sack Collins for being a racist piece of shit.

    Isn’t supposed to be a (clumsy) joke, showing how we’ve moved on from the real racist shittery of the Tebbit test?
    Possibly, probably, but just polar opposite racist shittery. People of whatever colour or background can support whatever team they identify with most, or even the one whose clothes, or style of play they like best, and its all hunky dory. Limiting people with an Indian heritage to supporting India, even if they grew up somewhere else, is no better than limiting them to supporting England.
    As I said it’s clumsy, but I just thought it was lumbering irony, ie it’s obviously very much not a disgrace if someone of Indian heritage chooses not to support India. Shit joke, shit point, shit tweet, a very common combo.
    And it seems that we as a nation have collectively turned into Americans and can no longer detect irony.
    It’s rather that most haven’t learned that irony operates a little differently online, than it does in conversation or extended writing.

    This was Collins being crass rather than readers lacking a sense of humour.
    Yes, but hardly him being (checks notes) a racist piece of shit.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,772
    eristdoof said:

    Sunak is the tail-ender who goes for the century to clinch the match as his wicket is rolled by the best of the other side.

    Will he get it?

    I don't know, but the batting is impressive regardless.

    Rishi is Garfield Sobers, Starmer is Malcolm Nash?
    Rishi = Alan Wells

    Starmer = Curtley Ambrose.
    Who is Robin Smith?
    Liz Truss is Nasser Hussain on 7th November 2002.
    More like Chris Cowdrey.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,302
    Rishi Sunak is the Mark Ramprakash of politics. Should be a good performer on paper, but struggles to get out of the 20s.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,263

    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:



    Starmer needs to sack Collins for being a racist piece of shit.

    Isn’t supposed to be a (clumsy) joke, showing how we’ve moved on from the real racist shittery of the Tebbit test?
    Possibly, probably, but just polar opposite racist shittery. People of whatever colour or background can support whatever team they identify with most, or even the one whose clothes, or style of play they like best, and its all hunky dory. Limiting people with an Indian heritage to supporting India, even if they grew up somewhere else, is no better than limiting them to supporting England.
    As I said it’s clumsy, but I just thought it was lumbering irony, ie it’s obviously very much not a disgrace if someone of Indian heritage chooses not to support India. Shit joke, shit point, shit tweet, a very common combo.
    And it seems that we as a nation have collectively turned into Americans and can no longer detect irony.
    It’s rather that most haven’t learned that irony operates a little differently online, than it does in conversation or extended writing.

    This was Collins being crass rather than readers lacking a sense of humour.
    Yes, but hardly him being (checks notes) a racist piece of shit.
    I never said he was; just crass.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,263
    edited June 2023

    Ben Stokes, I want to have your babies.

    Are you being oppressed?
    All the time.

    I’m from multiple minorities.

    Non white, privately educated for starters.

    My natural modesty also sees me oppressed.
    And your fashion sense unquestionably sets you apart from the common herd.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,685

    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:



    Starmer needs to sack Collins for being a racist piece of shit.

    Isn’t supposed to be a (clumsy) joke, showing how we’ve moved on from the real racist shittery of the Tebbit test?
    Possibly, probably, but just polar opposite racist shittery. People of whatever colour or background can support whatever team they identify with most, or even the one whose clothes, or style of play they like best, and its all hunky dory. Limiting people with an Indian heritage to supporting India, even if they grew up somewhere else, is no better than limiting them to supporting England.
    As I said it’s clumsy, but I just thought it was lumbering irony, ie it’s obviously very much not a disgrace if someone of Indian heritage chooses not to support India. Shit joke, shit point, shit tweet, a very common combo.
    And it seems that we as a nation have collectively turned into Americans and can no longer detect irony.
    It’s rather that most haven’t learned that irony operates a little differently online, than it does in conversation or extended writing.

    This was Collins being crass rather than readers lacking a sense of humour.
    Yes, but hardly him being (checks notes) a racist piece of shit.
    Yes, but what was his point? Who is he aiming the tweet at? At face value its an attack on a British Asian for supporting England (checks notes, the country of this birth). If he's referencing the Tebbit test, what's his point? The Tebbit test is stupid anyway. Peoples backgrounds are often complex. (Not me - I'm Wiltshire as far back as we can tell). If you grow up in a house in Birmingham where Dad, grandad, all the uncles etc idolise Sachin Tendulkar and Indian cricket, its not surprising if you follow suit. And so what, its sport.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,915
    In relation to the Tebbit Test, the Guardian newspaper is interesting in that regard. At the time of the 2005 Ashes its online over-by-over commentary was written by British journalists for a British audience and it reflected that partisanship. One of the journalists went on to write a book called, "Is it cowardly to pray for rain?" after the question posed towards the end of the final test of that series (rain would lead to a draw in the final match and a 2-1 series victory for England).

    Today, the Guardian has an Australian edition, Australian journalists writing stories for Australian readers, and Australian journalists contributing to the over-by-over commentary. So it no longer reflects a partisan, pro-England stance, and neither is it impassively neutral.

    It's a rather strange amalgam of strong partisanship for both sides. A bit like a marble cake, you might say. Mmm, marble cake.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,263
    Do the public really care about lying to parliament? Yes, they do
    https://constitution-unit.com/2023/06/17/do-the-public-really-care-about-lying-to-parliament-yes-they-do/

    Interesting set of surveys, which shows the Boris approach is fundamentally at odds with the instincts of the electorate.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,915
    A further thought about Sunak's cricket photo. I've no idea if Sunak has a genuine interest in cricket - as Major and May have - but if he doesn't I'm at least glad that cricket has enough supporters that he felt it worthwhile to suck up to them.

    I don't recall any photo opportunities from politicians trying to ingratiate themselves with devotees of some of my other leisure interests, like knitting or miniature wargaming.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,468
    Nigelb said:

    Surely it's the last Labour Government that is to blame for the incoming recession.

    The bizarre “thing” about our system is this notion the BOE is prepared to tip the economy in to a recession curb inflation. How is that a sane / logical way forward?
    That’s pretty well every central bank in a western economy.
    There’s no good way to bring down inflation once it’s taken hold.
    As someone was (rightly, because he didn't spell out the consequences) pilloried for saying

    "wages would go up, but that's not necessarily a good thing."

    There's not much point in increasing wages if it drives prices higher faster, which was starting to happen before Ukraine even kicked off.

    There's not much point in increasing wages if your screwed up housing market sets the cost of housing at "every penny you can afford plus a bit more". The extra pay will just flow to rentiers.

    Part of the trouble is that we have a governing class who only know the painful fight to tame the Lawson inflationary bubble as a folk memory.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,263
    Sweden pledges $23.5 million aid package, confirms fighter jet training for Ukraine.

    On June 16, Sweden's Defense Ministry made public its 12th aid package for Ukraine worth $23.5 million. The package will include training Ukrainian pilots on JAS 39 Gripen fighter jets.

    https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1669728029734477824
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,161
    edited June 2023
    Cicero said:

    Farooq said:

    I never understood why it should be a problem that people of Indian or Pakistani heritage should support those countries’ cricket teams against England, or that people of Caribbean heritage should support the West Indies. I mean, what is the problem with that? It’s sport not anything important. The Tebbit test was always entirely unreasonable and illogical - a dogwhistle, nothing more.

    Some people's political ideology demands the individual is subordinated to [God, royalty, one nation, your betters, your elders, ...]. The idea of picking and choosing is, for them, anathema. You have your place and you have responsibilities towards the hierarchy in which you find yourself.

    It's the mindset that leads to weird ideas like criticising "citizens of nowhere".
    One of the most disgraceful speeches ever given by a serving British Prime Minister. It rejected any compromise Brexit and set a course for the Hard Brexit which is now the cause of much of our current economic travails. At the same time it blamed those who opposed Brexit for not supporting what they did not and do not believe in.

    So, although we can all agree that Johnson and Truss were even worse leaders, the coming doom of the Tories was set on the day that Theresa May told the Conservative Party that the opinions of others had no bearing on the direction of the state as far as Brexit was concerned and that they could and should be ignored.

    I agree. Mrs May’s fortune is that of rather too many recent PMs, in that the scoundrels that have followed have made them look not quite so bad in retrospect.

    Remember also the “go home” vans from her time in the Home Office, deliberately launched when her LibDem junior minister was away on holiday.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,478
    edited June 2023
    Some on the right of politics are terribly confused about this identity politics stuff, aren't they:

    1. It's great to have a PM of Indian origin, but he should be judged entirely on what he achieves and his origins are irrelevant (insert MLK quote here usually). For the left to question his loyalties (even if it was a poor joke that backfired) is just out and out racism.

    2. With any luck, voters of Indian Hindu origin will turn out for Sunak and help the Tories hang on to Uxbridge in a few weeks' time.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,167
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:



    Starmer needs to sack Collins for being a racist piece of shit.

    Isn’t supposed to be a (clumsy) joke, showing how we’ve moved on from the real racist shittery of the Tebbit test?
    Possibly, probably, but just polar opposite racist shittery. People of whatever colour or background can support whatever team they identify with most, or even the one whose clothes, or style of play they like best, and its all hunky dory. Limiting people with an Indian heritage to supporting India, even if they grew up somewhere else, is no better than limiting them to supporting England.
    As I said it’s clumsy, but I just thought it was lumbering irony, ie it’s obviously very much not a disgrace if someone of Indian heritage chooses not to support India. Shit joke, shit point, shit tweet, a very common combo.
    And it seems that we as a nation have collectively turned into Americans and can no longer detect irony.
    It’s rather that most haven’t learned that irony operates a little differently online, than it does in conversation or extended writing.

    This was Collins being crass rather than readers lacking a sense of humour.
    Yes, but hardly him being (checks notes) a racist piece of shit.
    I never said he was; just crass.
    No, but the person who originally posted the tweet said he was. If that was the tone being originally set I prefer to note that and kick against it.
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    Theresa May could have lead a compromise Brexit
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,069
    IanB2 said:

    Cicero said:

    Farooq said:

    I never understood why it should be a problem that people of Indian or Pakistani heritage should support those countries’ cricket teams against England, or that people of Caribbean heritage should support the West Indies. I mean, what is the problem with that? It’s sport not anything important. The Tebbit test was always entirely unreasonable and illogical - a dogwhistle, nothing more.

    Some people's political ideology demands the individual is subordinated to [God, royalty, one nation, your betters, your elders, ...]. The idea of picking and choosing is, for them, anathema. You have your place and you have responsibilities towards the hierarchy in which you find yourself.

    It's the mindset that leads to weird ideas like criticising "citizens of nowhere".
    One of the most disgraceful speeches ever given by a serving British Prime Minister. It rejected any compromise Brexit and set a course for the Hard Brexit which is now the cause of much of our current economic travails. At the same time it blamed those who opposed Brexit for not supporting what they did not and do not believe in.

    So, although we can all agree that Johnson and Truss were even worse leaders, the coming doom of the Tories was set on the day that Theresa May told the Conservative Party that the opinions of others had no bearing on the direction of the state as far as Brexit was concerned and that they could and should be ignored.

    I agree. Mrs May’s fortune is that of rather too many recent PMs, in that the scoundrels that have followed have made them look not quite so bad in retrospect.

    Remember also the “go home” vans from her time in the Home Office, deliberately launched when her LibDem junior minister was away on holiday.
    Also referring to EU Citizens living in the UK as "Queue Jumpers"
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,656

    Rishi Sunak is the Mark Ramprakash of politics. Should be a good performer on paper, but struggles to get out of the 20s.

    But who also enjoyed an exceptionally long first class career?
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951

    Some on the right of politics are terribly confused about this identity politics stuff, aren't they:

    1. It's great to have a PM of Indian origin, but he should be judged entirely on what he achieves and his origins are irrelevant (insert MLK quote here usually). For the left to question his loyalties (even if it was a poor joke that backfired) is just out and out racism.

    2. With any luck, voters of Indian Hindu origin will turn out for Sunak and help the Tories hang on to Uxbridge in a few weeks' time.

    Of Indian origin? He was born in Southampton...
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,685
    kyf_100 said:

    Some on the right of politics are terribly confused about this identity politics stuff, aren't they:

    1. It's great to have a PM of Indian origin, but he should be judged entirely on what he achieves and his origins are irrelevant (insert MLK quote here usually). For the left to question his loyalties (even if it was a poor joke that backfired) is just out and out racism.

    2. With any luck, voters of Indian Hindu origin will turn out for Sunak and help the Tories hang on to Uxbridge in a few weeks' time.

    Of Indian origin? He was born in Southampton...
    This is the issue isn't it? Because of race (whether or not race exists as a scientific term) Sunak will always be seen as of Indian heritage in a way that someone born in Southampton to parents from Manchester would not be seen as of Mancunian heritage.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,685
    rcs1000 said:

    Rishi Sunak is the Mark Ramprakash of politics. Should be a good performer on paper, but struggles to get out of the 20s.

    But who also enjoyed an exceptionally long first class career?
    Not the only player to be exposed at the highest level. Many, many England players over the years have been tried and not quite been good enough. In recent times Rory Burns would be a good example. Back further Graham Hick.

    Its also notable to see who Ramps played - mostly Australia and the WI, when both have excellent attacks.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,478
    kyf_100 said:

    Some on the right of politics are terribly confused about this identity politics stuff, aren't they:

    1. It's great to have a PM of Indian origin, but he should be judged entirely on what he achieves and his origins are irrelevant (insert MLK quote here usually). For the left to question his loyalties (even if it was a poor joke that backfired) is just out and out racism.

    2. With any luck, voters of Indian Hindu origin will turn out for Sunak and help the Tories hang on to Uxbridge in a few weeks' time.

    Of Indian origin? He was born in Southampton...
    I know that. I should have used 'heritage' rather than 'origin', I guess.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,691

    Nigelb said:

    Surely it's the last Labour Government that is to blame for the incoming recession.

    The bizarre “thing” about our system is this notion the BOE is prepared to tip the economy in to a recession curb inflation. How is that a sane / logical way forward?
    That’s pretty well every central bank in a western economy.
    There’s no good way to bring down inflation once it’s taken hold.
    As someone was (rightly, because he didn't spell out the consequences) pilloried for saying

    "wages would go up, but that's not necessarily a good thing."

    There's not much point in increasing wages if it drives prices higher faster, which was starting to happen before Ukraine even kicked off.

    There's not much point in increasing wages if your screwed up housing market sets the cost of housing at "every penny you can afford plus a bit more". The extra pay will just flow to rentiers.

    Part of the trouble is that we have a governing class who only know the painful fight to tame the Lawson inflationary bubble as a folk memory.
    Can you name a sector that has had a real term wage rise over the last two years?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,915
    edited June 2023

    Theresa May could have lead a compromise Brexit

    I don't think she could have.

    1. It's not in her nature to reach out to others and bring people together. She simply doesn't have the people skills, and she showed that she prefers to plan in private before revealing those plans in public - hence "Brexit means Brexit."

    2. She was a Remainer in the referendum campaign and so would have struggled to convince Leavers to accept a compromise.

    Gove may have been the only politician capable of leading a compromise Brexit, or perhaps Cameron, had he campaigned for Leave and led Britain out of the EU.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,656

    rcs1000 said:

    Rishi Sunak is the Mark Ramprakash of politics. Should be a good performer on paper, but struggles to get out of the 20s.

    But who also enjoyed an exceptionally long first class career?
    Not the only player to be exposed at the highest level. Many, many England players over the years have been tried and not quite been good enough. In recent times Rory Burns would be a good example. Back further Graham Hick.

    Its also notable to see who Ramps played - mostly Australia and the WI, when both have excellent attacks.
    Ramprakash and Hick both had their test debuts in the same game, although I think you could argue that Hick's test performance improved more than Ramprakash's.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,685
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Rishi Sunak is the Mark Ramprakash of politics. Should be a good performer on paper, but struggles to get out of the 20s.

    But who also enjoyed an exceptionally long first class career?
    Not the only player to be exposed at the highest level. Many, many England players over the years have been tried and not quite been good enough. In recent times Rory Burns would be a good example. Back further Graham Hick.

    Its also notable to see who Ramps played - mostly Australia and the WI, when both have excellent attacks.
    Ramprakash and Hick both had their test debuts in the same game, although I think you could argue that Hick's test performance improved more than Ramprakash's.
    Arguably Hick was in decline by the time he qualified. he had to wait a full 7 years. Nowadays there would have been a grandfather somewhere...
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,149

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Rishi Sunak is the Mark Ramprakash of politics. Should be a good performer on paper, but struggles to get out of the 20s.

    But who also enjoyed an exceptionally long first class career?
    Not the only player to be exposed at the highest level. Many, many England players over the years have been tried and not quite been good enough. In recent times Rory Burns would be a good example. Back further Graham Hick.

    Its also notable to see who Ramps played - mostly Australia and the WI, when both have excellent attacks.
    Ramprakash and Hick both had their test debuts in the same game, although I think you could argue that Hick's test performance improved more than Ramprakash's.
    Arguably Hick was in decline by the time he qualified. he had to wait a full 7 years. Nowadays there would have been a grandfather somewhere...
    "Hudson, sir! He's Hicks!"
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,656
    slade said:

    Long term PBers may like to know that Mrs B has been awarded the MBE for public and political services.

    Sadly her much deserved peerage was blocked by Nadine Dorries.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,145

    kyf_100 said:

    Some on the right of politics are terribly confused about this identity politics stuff, aren't they:

    1. It's great to have a PM of Indian origin, but he should be judged entirely on what he achieves and his origins are irrelevant (insert MLK quote here usually). For the left to question his loyalties (even if it was a poor joke that backfired) is just out and out racism.

    2. With any luck, voters of Indian Hindu origin will turn out for Sunak and help the Tories hang on to Uxbridge in a few weeks' time.

    Of Indian origin? He was born in Southampton...
    This is the issue isn't it? Because of race (whether or not race exists as a scientific term) Sunak will always be seen as of Indian heritage in a way that someone born in Southampton to parents from Manchester would not be seen as of Mancunian heritage.
    His parents are from East Africa, and at least one grandparent from what is now Pakistan.

    Pretty strong links to India though via his wife and her business interests.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,656

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Rishi Sunak is the Mark Ramprakash of politics. Should be a good performer on paper, but struggles to get out of the 20s.

    But who also enjoyed an exceptionally long first class career?
    Not the only player to be exposed at the highest level. Many, many England players over the years have been tried and not quite been good enough. In recent times Rory Burns would be a good example. Back further Graham Hick.

    Its also notable to see who Ramps played - mostly Australia and the WI, when both have excellent attacks.
    Ramprakash and Hick both had their test debuts in the same game, although I think you could argue that Hick's test performance improved more than Ramprakash's.
    Arguably Hick was in decline by the time he qualified. he had to wait a full 7 years. Nowadays there would have been a grandfather somewhere...
    If you divide Hick's Test career into two halves, his first was very disappointing, averaging around 20, while in the second he was averaging around 40. So I'm not sure that holds.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,230
    So by supporting England in the cricket, has Sunak just blown it with the fabled "Hindu Vote" in Uxbridge?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,914
    ...
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Rishi Sunak is the Mark Ramprakash of politics. Should be a good performer on paper, but struggles to get out of the 20s.

    But who also enjoyed an exceptionally long first class career?
    Not the only player to be exposed at the highest level. Many, many England players over the years have been tried and not quite been good enough. In recent times Rory Burns would be a good example. Back further Graham Hick.

    Its also notable to see who Ramps played - mostly Australia and the WI, when both have excellent attacks.
    Ramprakash and Hick both had their test debuts in the same game, although I think you could argue that Hick's test performance improved more than Ramprakash's.
    There was a lot of nonsense around Graeme Hick's eligibility status, so whilst he was at the top of his game at New Road he was ineligible for England and for years. I believe there was more to it than that, I don't think Hick fitted into the England set up and Ray Illingwirth didn't rate him or like him.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,230
    Actually, the fact that Sunak feels the need to publicly demonstrate that he passes the Tebbit Test is rather depressing.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,045

    Actually, the fact that Sunak feels the need to publicly demonstrate that he passes the Tebbit Test is rather depressing.

    Why? It’s a common trope for politicians.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,914
    edited June 2023

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Rishi Sunak is the Mark Ramprakash of politics. Should be a good performer on paper, but struggles to get out of the 20s.

    But who also enjoyed an exceptionally long first class career?
    Not the only player to be exposed at the highest level. Many, many England players over the years have been tried and not quite been good enough. In recent times Rory Burns would be a good example. Back further Graham Hick.

    Its also notable to see who Ramps played - mostly Australia and the WI, when both have excellent attacks.
    Ramprakash and Hick both had their test debuts in the same game, although I think you could argue that Hick's test performance improved more than Ramprakash's.
    Arguably Hick was in decline by the time he qualified. he had to wait a full 7 years. Nowadays there would have been a grandfather somewhere...
    He was far from in decline when Atherton declared at Trent Bridge in 1995 with Hick on 98. What a b****** trick to play!
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    So by supporting England in the cricket, has Sunak just blown it with the fabled "Hindu Vote" in Uxbridge?

    Its a fairly horrible slur to suggest British Hindus don't support England.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,468
    edited June 2023

    Theresa May could have lead a compromise Brexit

    I don't think she could have.

    1. It's not in her nature to reach out to others and bring people together. She simply doesn't have the people skills, and she showed that she prefers to plan in private before revealing those plans in public - hence "Brexit means Brexit."

    2. She was a Remainer in the referendum campaign and so would have struggled to convince Leavers to accept a compromise.

    Gove may have been the only politician capable of leading a compromise Brexit, or perhaps Cameron, had he campaigned for Leave and led Britain out of the EU.
    Factor in Johnson's ego, though. If not-Boris (they're all the same to him) was Prime Minister, and there was any space at all for Johnson to destabilise them by shouting "NOT A PROPER BREXIT", he would have done so. Heck, he did it to May and the May plan was objectively at the harder end of possible Brexits.

    "Govey and I go back a long way, and he was right to see the wisdom of Brexit before even I did. But sadly, he's been captured by the Westminster blob. Come on Mikey, it's time to remember your convictions (continued page 94)..."

    Johnson could have done it, because it would have needed utter shamelessness and an assurance that Johnson wouldn't attack you for it. Unfortuately, he was too busy enjoying the big house and outsourced all his thinking to scruffy Mekon. Remember? Had funny views about eye tests.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,956
    RobD said:

    Actually, the fact that Sunak feels the need to publicly demonstrate that he passes the Tebbit Test is rather depressing.

    Why? It’s a common trope for politicians.
    Exactly. "Look voters, here I am enjoying a beer whilst watching the association football, just like you!"
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,029

    Nigelb said:

    Surely it's the last Labour Government that is to blame for the incoming recession.

    The bizarre “thing” about our system is this notion the BOE is prepared to tip the economy in to a recession curb inflation. How is that a sane / logical way forward?
    That’s pretty well every central bank in a western economy.
    There’s no good way to bring down inflation once it’s taken hold.
    As someone was (rightly, because he didn't spell out the consequences) pilloried for saying

    "wages would go up, but that's not necessarily a good thing."

    There's not much point in increasing wages if it drives prices higher faster, which was starting to happen before Ukraine even kicked off.

    There's not much point in increasing wages if your screwed up housing market sets the cost of housing at "every penny you can afford plus a bit more". The extra pay will just flow to rentiers.

    Part of the trouble is that we have a governing class who only know the painful fight to tame the Lawson inflationary bubble as a folk memory.
    Can you name a sector that has had a real term wage rise over the last two years?
    Does the 'FTSE CEO' sector count?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,145

    Actually, the fact that Sunak feels the need to publicly demonstrate that he passes the Tebbit Test is rather depressing.

    I fail. So far as I care the slightest about cricket, my Australian genes show.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,656
    ohnotnow said:

    Nigelb said:

    Surely it's the last Labour Government that is to blame for the incoming recession.

    The bizarre “thing” about our system is this notion the BOE is prepared to tip the economy in to a recession curb inflation. How is that a sane / logical way forward?
    That’s pretty well every central bank in a western economy.
    There’s no good way to bring down inflation once it’s taken hold.
    As someone was (rightly, because he didn't spell out the consequences) pilloried for saying

    "wages would go up, but that's not necessarily a good thing."

    There's not much point in increasing wages if it drives prices higher faster, which was starting to happen before Ukraine even kicked off.

    There's not much point in increasing wages if your screwed up housing market sets the cost of housing at "every penny you can afford plus a bit more". The extra pay will just flow to rentiers.

    Part of the trouble is that we have a governing class who only know the painful fight to tame the Lawson inflationary bubble as a folk memory.
    Can you name a sector that has had a real term wage rise over the last two years?
    Does the 'FTSE CEO' sector count?
    I was going to go with Russian mercenary.
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