It's nice to see the back of both Boris and Corbyn once and for all.
They both represented the worst of their parties and, hopefully, the absolute nature of their demise (along with the Truss cameo) will see a return to more sensible politics of the left/right well beyond the next election.
Both Boris and Corbyn enthused their right and leftwing bases though in a way Rishi and Sir Keir can't. Now Rishi and Sir Keir may be more competent as PM and potential PM but Boris and Jezza were much the better campaigners.
The best leaders like Blair and Cameron do both, inspiring campaigners and speakers on their day but also competent enough to be trusted to run the country as PM
Man City fans are, as a group, spectacularly unattractive. Did they all have very tough paper rounds followed by a massive inbreeding culture. If Rishi wants to win the next election he needs to do something about our English football crowds being such a bad advert for the UK.
I think qualifying PB contributors should be tagged with “I supported Boris”.
Only BartyBobbins is open about it, so far as I can tell.
Oh I’m very happy to tell you I was then, and remain now, incredibly grateful for him forcing Brexit through. I take the long view on anything else he did or didn’t do, as anything can be tweaked by future Governments now. I also think he was useful when Ukraine happened in stopping us hesitating.
Precisely.
The worst thing about politics is how too many people take a "my side right or wrong" attitude and then act like their side is perfect and flawless, and the other side is wretched and has no merit.
No leader is perfect. No leader as Blair claimed to be is "whiter than white". All leaders have a mixed legacy in the end.
That applies to Boris as much if not more than most. He's done some very, very good things to which I'm grateful he was PM for - including resolving the Brexit dilemma that May was stuck on, and I don't think Hunt could have handled, getting Covid vaccines organised ahead of the curve, and perhaps most importantly the full-throated support for Ukraine.
And he's done some very, very bad things to which its right he's gone for. I'm sure every reader can think of something.
A mix of black and white, shades of grey, if you're still allowed to use those colour analogies and its not politically incorrect. Not totally bad, not totally good. Like all PMs in the end.
And considering the alternative was Jeremy Corbyn - I'll never regret having voted for him.
Video of a guardsman after fainting. The band keeps playing and none of the people near him help. This country is fucking weird sick.
I think that would happen in any self-respecting military in the world. Military personnel can’t just stop what they’re doing (having been specifically ordered to do it) whatever the circumstances
Not when you're doing something of vital importance, maybe.
But they're playing trombones.
That’s not the way it works. Soldiers can’t judge for yourself themselves if a lawful order is of vital importance and prioritise accordingly. That’s what military discipline is all about. That’s true in all armies, at least the ones that function properly, not just the British one. I’m no soldier but being on parade, which is what they were doing, I understand has a role in promoting that discipline so military types may say it is of vital importance. Saying they’re not helping just because they’re from this specific country is plain wrong.
Most countries don't put people out in the hot sunshine wearing enormous fur hats though!
I find it hard to believe many countries do not have soldiers in inappropriate gear in hot weather.
That's not to say it may not be a problem, but it seems a poor case to do a 'woe is the UK' about.
Which ones? I remember seen Greek ones but that were furry bobbles on the toes... funny but not mad. I've tried googling a few other countries and I don't see much in the way of giant furry hats. It's insane. It's literally mad. We are a mad country.
You are an arse or the worst order.
A list of the other countries that use bearskin caps, including Canada, Sweden, Sri Lanka (notably chilly there) and Belgium, is at the below link -
You are the reason why the left in the U.K. gets nowhere. You think that insulting the country is the best way of winning votes.
I resent that.
Not the "arse" thing, that's fair game. No, it's the accusation that criticising this country is the province of the left. I'm a dyed in the bearskin wool liberal. Not left or right, centre. Centre liberal. With a penchant for needling at British shibboleths. If you want to use me as evidence that you shouldn't vote for left-wing parties good. I don't want you to vote for leftist parties.
And Doug. Mate. Cheer up. It's a lovely warm evening. Have a bear beer. But don't get dehydrated, eh lad?
You are about as centrist as Corbyn
That might be true it might not, but it is still true that the right criticise the country as well. Rees-Mogg is a complete radicalist rather than a traditionalist for example, who wants to adopt an explicitly presidential PM system. Just one of many examples.
The ever moaning leftist strand of this sort of thing is true and annoying, but they are not alone.
Peter Hitchens is a right winger who hates his own country, and there are plenty online.
For some, it’s the gays. A country which tolerates them is a degenerate hellhole, which ought to be destroyed.
As I said the other week if you want to understand Peter read the first 2 chapters of his brother Christopher's memoir Hitch 22. One chapter on each parent. His WW2 hero father was let go by the Navy with a feeble pension, look askance as the Empire collapsed and in his final years threatened to never vote Tory again if they built the channel tunnel.
Video of a guardsman after fainting. The band keeps playing and none of the people near him help. This country is fucking weird sick.
I think that would happen in any self-respecting military in the world. Military personnel can’t just stop what they’re doing (having been specifically ordered to do it) whatever the circumstances
Not when you're doing something of vital importance, maybe.
But they're playing trombones.
That’s not the way it works. Soldiers can’t judge for yourself themselves if a lawful order is of vital importance and prioritise accordingly. That’s what military discipline is all about. That’s true in all armies, at least the ones that function properly, not just the British one. I’m no soldier but being on parade, which is what they were doing, I understand has a role in promoting that discipline so military types may say it is of vital importance. Saying they’re not helping just because they’re from this specific country is plain wrong.
Most countries don't put people out in the hot sunshine wearing enormous fur hats though!
I find it hard to believe many countries do not have soldiers in inappropriate gear in hot weather.
That's not to say it may not be a problem, but it seems a poor case to do a 'woe is the UK' about.
Which ones? I remember seen Greek ones but that were furry bobbles on the toes... funny but not mad. I've tried googling a few other countries and I don't see much in the way of giant furry hats. It's insane. It's literally mad. We are a mad country.
You are an arse or the worst order.
A list of the other countries that use bearskin caps, including Canada, Sweden, Sri Lanka (notably chilly there) and Belgium, is at the below link -
You are the reason why the left in the U.K. gets nowhere. You think that insulting the country is the best way of winning votes.
I resent that.
Not the "arse" thing, that's fair game. No, it's the accusation that criticising this country is the province of the left. I'm a dyed in the bearskin wool liberal. Not left or right, centre. Centre liberal. With a penchant for needling at British shibboleths. If you want to use me as evidence that you shouldn't vote for left-wing parties good. I don't want you to vote for leftist parties.
And Doug. Mate. Cheer up. It's a lovely warm evening. Have a bear beer. But don't get dehydrated, eh lad?
You are about as centrist as Corbyn
That might be true it might not, but it is still true that the right criticise the country as well. Rees-Mogg is a complete radicalist rather than a traditionalist for example, who wants to adopt an explicitly presidential PM system. Just one of many examples.
The ever moaning leftist strand of this sort of thing is true and annoying, but they are not alone.
Peter Hitchens is a right winger who hates his own country, and there are plenty online.
For some, it’s the gays. A country which tolerates them is a degenerate hellhole, which ought to be destroyed.
For me, it’s the Trans Gay Woke Illegal Immigrant Alien AIs. They are everywhere!
Selby I think could be a Conservative hold, bigger Labour vote in 2019 than so Shropshire North and Mid Bedfordshire and smaller LD vote there so local Labour Party will likely fight it in a proper contest and not hand it to the LDs. Thus splitting the anti Conservative vote
I can’t see the LibDems making an effort in Selby and Ainsty. It’s not their demographic at all - Selby is quite working class and surprisingly run down for a market town with an abbey. I agree it’ll probably be a Conservative hold, but Labour have an outside chance.
Incidentally here’s the origin of the “Ainsty” bit:
And. Importantly. A totally different demographic in the non-Selby bits. Southern part of York including University then. Prosperous commuter villages around Harrogate now.
I notice that the boundary changes will remove Ainsty from Selby, leading to a much more labour profile. I wonder if that's the true reason he cut and ran.
It's nice to see the back of both Boris and Corbyn once and for all.
They both represented the worst of their parties and, hopefully, the absolute nature of their demise (along with the Truss cameo) will see a return to more sensible politics of the left/right well beyond the next election.
Both Boris and Corbyn enthused their right and leftwing bases though in a way Rishi and Sir Keir can't. Now Rishi and Sir Keir may be more competent as PM and potential PM but Boris and Jezza were much the better campaigners.
The best leaders like Blair and Cameron do both, inspiring campaigners and speakers on their day but also competent enough to be trusted to run the country as PM
Sure, a leader that can inspire and govern is the best of both worlds. But given the paucity of candidates for that in either party, I'd prefer a semblance of competence in governing from whichever party wins an election.
My dad's gone. Faded out with mum and my brother and me there with him telling stories of his part glories. He fought a good battle these last few weeks, and you can't ask for any more than that.
Video of a guardsman after fainting. The band keeps playing and none of the people near him help. This country is fucking weird sick.
I think that would happen in any self-respecting military in the world. Military personnel can’t just stop what they’re doing (having been specifically ordered to do it) whatever the circumstances
Not when you're doing something of vital importance, maybe.
But they're playing trombones.
That’s not the way it works. Soldiers can’t judge for yourself themselves if a lawful order is of vital importance and prioritise accordingly. That’s what military discipline is all about. That’s true in all armies, at least the ones that function properly, not just the British one. I’m no soldier but being on parade, which is what they were doing, I understand has a role in promoting that discipline so military types may say it is of vital importance. Saying they’re not helping just because they’re from this specific country is plain wrong.
Most countries don't put people out in the hot sunshine wearing enormous fur hats though!
I find it hard to believe many countries do not have soldiers in inappropriate gear in hot weather.
That's not to say it may not be a problem, but it seems a poor case to do a 'woe is the UK' about.
Which ones? I remember seen Greek ones but that were furry bobbles on the toes... funny but not mad. I've tried googling a few other countries and I don't see much in the way of giant furry hats. It's insane. It's literally mad. We are a mad country.
You are an arse or the worst order.
A list of the other countries that use bearskin caps, including Canada, Sweden, Sri Lanka (notably chilly there) and Belgium, is at the below link -
You are the reason why the left in the U.K. gets nowhere. You think that insulting the country is the best way of winning votes.
I resent that.
Not the "arse" thing, that's fair game. No, it's the accusation that criticising this country is the province of the left. I'm a dyed in the bearskin wool liberal. Not left or right, centre. Centre liberal. With a penchant for needling at British shibboleths. If you want to use me as evidence that you shouldn't vote for left-wing parties good. I don't want you to vote for leftist parties.
And Doug. Mate. Cheer up. It's a lovely warm evening. Have a bear beer. But don't get dehydrated, eh lad?
You are about as centrist as Corbyn
That might be true it might not, but it is still true that the right criticise the country as well. Rees-Mogg is a complete radicalist rather than a traditionalist for example, who wants to adopt an explicitly presidential PM system. Just one of many examples.
The ever moaning leftist strand of this sort of thing is true and annoying, but they are not alone.
Well it comes down to needing to define what you mean again. Blood semantics.
To state my position, I'm - economically centrist (private business, capitalism, social safety net, keep a lid on generational inequality, reward innovation and risk taking), - socially extremely liberal (let people do what the fuck they like as long as they aren't hurting anyone, actively punish discrimination that constrains opportunities or controls people, do not offer state incentives or disincentives for people to live in particular ways) - constitutionally radical (abolish the monarchy, bring in PR, throw the Lords out onto the kerb, devolve and pool powers away from Westminster to regions/nations/EU, open to Scottish independence) - dispositionally anti-authoritarian (dislike of surveillance, defending the right to protest and strike, suspicious of coercive power structures like political parties, faiths, political trade unions, wealthy political donors, enforced patriotism)
I get called a lefty I think because of that constitutional radicalism, and to be fair there are elements in there that fit comfortably with the left. But that's only because elements of the left fit well with the abolition of meaningless hierarchies. And the sense that some fucking idiot like Jacob Rees Mogg can be considered "better" than anyone on here is numbingly offensive. It makes me sick to see people tug their forelock when confronted with a plummy voice and a well-cut suit.
But this same trait fits pretty badly with leftism as well. I don't want stuff nationalised just for the sake of it because government is worse than the market for getting people what they want. In all cases where a market can operate freely, which is almost all economic life, give people the space to operate freely. Yes, state power sits atop all that because that's the pathway to check overweaning power of very big businesses and cartels, but as long as businesses aren't taking the piss, leave them alone.
Ultimately politics is about what government should do and government should be about maximising freedom with a special focus on keeping the weak and voiceless free.
I honestly can't think of a better way to describe all the above other than liberalism. Yes, not all liberals will agree with my constitutional radicalism but it's all with a means to an end, to free up unnecessary restrictions on who can become what. There's always been a tension between my constitutional radicalism and conservatism for its own sake. But there's always been a tension between leftism and my belief in economic freedom. So I'm not a conservative, and I'm not a leftist.
And I'm so sorry for typing so much about me me me but I get frustrated when I see people not understanding a thing when it seems so clear to me. The world isn't just divided into left or conservative and the lack of ability of some people to see in anything other than red v blue.. it blisters me.
Most of what you support from your list above Corbyn would also have happily supported, minor differences you are constitutionally even more radical than him on some things but economically a shade more capitalist than him on a few things so my point stands
My dad's gone. Faded out with mum and my brother and me there with him telling stories of his part glories. He fought a good battle these last few weeks, and you can't ask for any more than that.
I think qualifying PB contributors should be tagged with “I supported Boris”.
Only BartyBobbins is open about it, so far as I can tell.
Oh I’m very happy to tell you I was then, and remain now, incredibly grateful for him forcing Brexit through. I take the long view on anything else he did or didn’t do, as anything can be tweaked by future Governments now. I also think he was useful when Ukraine happened in stopping us hesitating.
Precisely.
The worst thing about politics is how too many people take a "my side right or wrong" attitude and then act like their side is perfect and flawless, and the other side is wretched and has no merit.
No leader is perfect. No leader as Blair claimed to be is "whiter than white". All leaders have a mixed legacy in the end.
That applies to Boris as much if not more than most. He's done some very, very good things to which I'm grateful he was PM for - including resolving the Brexit dilemma that May was stuck on, and I don't think Hunt could have handled, getting Covid vaccines organised ahead of the curve, and perhaps most importantly the full-throated support for Ukraine.
And he's done some very, very bad things to which its right he's gone for. I'm sure every reader can think of something.
A mix of black and white, shades of grey, if you're still allowed to use those colour analogies and its not politically incorrect. Not totally bad, not totally good. Like all PMs in the end.
And considering the alternative was Jeremy Corbyn - I'll never regret having voted for him.
Utter drivel. He was appalling on every measure. Pure poison.
My dad's gone. Faded out with mum and my brother and me there with him telling stories of his part glories. He fought a good battle these last few weeks, and you can't ask for any more than that.
My dad was in his nineties, and had dementia when he died. It still hurt. Sincere condolences.
My dad's gone. Faded out with mum and my brother and me there with him telling stories of his part glories. He fought a good battle these last few weeks, and you can't ask for any more than that.
I was fortunate enough the be with my Dad when he passed five years ago. I was just sitting there talking to him about old family holidays and the antics we used to get up to in Cornwall in August when I suddenly realised he'd gone. I'd like to think the last words he heard made him happy - it helped me as well.
My dad's gone. Faded out with mum and my brother and me there with him telling stories of his part glories. He fought a good battle these last few weeks, and you can't ask for any more than that.
Been there. Know how it feels. So sorry. Keep the good memories
Video of a guardsman after fainting. The band keeps playing and none of the people near him help. This country is fucking weird sick.
I think that would happen in any self-respecting military in the world. Military personnel can’t just stop what they’re doing (having been specifically ordered to do it) whatever the circumstances
Not when you're doing something of vital importance, maybe.
But they're playing trombones.
That’s not the way it works. Soldiers can’t judge for yourself themselves if a lawful order is of vital importance and prioritise accordingly. That’s what military discipline is all about. That’s true in all armies, at least the ones that function properly, not just the British one. I’m no soldier but being on parade, which is what they were doing, I understand has a role in promoting that discipline so military types may say it is of vital importance. Saying they’re not helping just because they’re from this specific country is plain wrong.
Most countries don't put people out in the hot sunshine wearing enormous fur hats though!
I find it hard to believe many countries do not have soldiers in inappropriate gear in hot weather.
That's not to say it may not be a problem, but it seems a poor case to do a 'woe is the UK' about.
Which ones? I remember seen Greek ones but that were furry bobbles on the toes... funny but not mad. I've tried googling a few other countries and I don't see much in the way of giant furry hats. It's insane. It's literally mad. We are a mad country.
You are an arse or the worst order.
A list of the other countries that use bearskin caps, including Canada, Sweden, Sri Lanka (notably chilly there) and Belgium, is at the below link -
You are the reason why the left in the U.K. gets nowhere. You think that insulting the country is the best way of winning votes.
I resent that.
Not the "arse" thing, that's fair game. No, it's the accusation that criticising this country is the province of the left. I'm a dyed in the bearskin wool liberal. Not left or right, centre. Centre liberal. With a penchant for needling at British shibboleths. If you want to use me as evidence that you shouldn't vote for left-wing parties good. I don't want you to vote for leftist parties.
And Doug. Mate. Cheer up. It's a lovely warm evening. Have a bear beer. But don't get dehydrated, eh lad?
You are about as centrist as Corbyn
That might be true it might not, but it is still true that the right criticise the country as well. Rees-Mogg is a complete radicalist rather than a traditionalist for example, who wants to adopt an explicitly presidential PM system. Just one of many examples.
The ever moaning leftist strand of this sort of thing is true and annoying, but they are not alone.
Well it comes down to needing to define what you mean again. Blood semantics.
To state my position, I'm - economically centrist (private business, capitalism, social safety net, keep a lid on generational inequality, reward innovation and risk taking), - socially extremely liberal (let people do what the fuck they like as long as they aren't hurting anyone, actively punish discrimination that constrains opportunities or controls people, do not offer state incentives or disincentives for people to live in particular ways) - constitutionally radical (abolish the monarchy, bring in PR, throw the Lords out onto the kerb, devolve and pool powers away from Westminster to regions/nations/EU, open to Scottish independence) - dispositionally anti-authoritarian (dislike of surveillance, defending the right to protest and strike, suspicious of coercive power structures like political parties, faiths, political trade unions, wealthy political donors, enforced patriotism)
I get called a lefty I think because of that constitutional radicalism, and to be fair there are elements in there that fit comfortably with the left. But that's only because elements of the left fit well with the abolition of meaningless hierarchies. And the sense that some fucking idiot like Jacob Rees Mogg can be considered "better" than anyone on here is numbingly offensive. It makes me sick to see people tug their forelock when confronted with a plummy voice and a well-cut suit.
But this same trait fits pretty badly with leftism as well. I don't want stuff nationalised just for the sake of it because government is worse than the market for getting people what they want. In all cases where a market can operate freely, which is almost all economic life, give people the space to operate freely. Yes, state power sits atop all that because that's the pathway to check overweaning power of very big businesses and cartels, but as long as businesses aren't taking the piss, leave them alone.
Ultimately politics is about what government should do and government should be about maximising freedom with a special focus on keeping the weak and voiceless free.
I honestly can't think of a better way to describe all the above other than liberalism. Yes, not all liberals will agree with my constitutional radicalism but it's all with a means to an end, to free up unnecessary restrictions on who can become what. There's always been a tension between my constitutional radicalism and conservatism for its own sake. But there's always been a tension between leftism and my belief in economic freedom. So I'm not a conservative, and I'm not a leftist.
And I'm so sorry for typing so much about me me me but I get frustrated when I see people not understanding a thing when it seems so clear to me. The world isn't just divided into left or conservative and the lack of ability of some people to see in anything other than red v blue.. it blisters me.
Most of what you support from your list above Corbyn would also have happily supported, so my point stands
Yes, that well known defender of free-market capitalism Jeremy Corbyn
And I'm sorry to have to make this explicit, but yes, I do agree with some things Corbyn said. Doesn't mean I'd ever want to vote for the odious little twerp, but if you can't find something to pick out of almost every political tradition that you're completely lost from the real world.
'social safety net, keep a lid on generational inequality,' is hardly pure free market capitalism now is it!
My dad's gone. Faded out with mum and my brother and me there with him telling stories of his part glories. He fought a good battle these last few weeks, and you can't ask for any more than that.
My dad's gone. Faded out with mum and my brother and me there with him telling stories of his part glories. He fought a good battle these last few weeks, and you can't ask for any more than that.
My dad's gone. Faded out with mum and my brother and me there with him telling stories of his part glories. He fought a good battle these last few weeks, and you can't ask for any more than that.
My deepest sympathy to you and your family
It will be a great comfort that you and your family were with him when he passed
She’s in a female only ward. I am, as you’ve probably guessed, male.
The lady in the bed opposite my mum is a Muslim lady who wears a full face Niqab and clearly values her privacy (curtains drawn whenever a nurse/doctor/family visit). Up until today, she’s a never said anything, or been part of the ward gossip thingy my mum and the other ladies have got going on. I respectfully ignore her, in the way that a male (anyone?) does in this situation.
Anyway, she clearly overheard my conversations with my mum and, for whatever reason, decided to randomly help me solve my mums problems as they come up. She’s getting involved in the ward gossip, too.
It’s the first time I’ve ever meaningfully interacted with a woman in a full face veil.
I think qualifying PB contributors should be tagged with “I supported Boris”.
Only BartyBobbins is open about it, so far as I can tell.
Oh I’m very happy to tell you I was then, and remain now, incredibly grateful for him forcing Brexit through. I take the long view on anything else he did or didn’t do, as anything can be tweaked by future Governments now. I also think he was useful when Ukraine happened in stopping us hesitating.
Precisely.
The worst thing about politics is how too many people take a "my side right or wrong" attitude and then act like their side is perfect and flawless, and the other side is wretched and has no merit.
No leader is perfect. No leader as Blair claimed to be is "whiter than white". All leaders have a mixed legacy in the end.
That applies to Boris as much if not more than most. He's done some very, very good things to which I'm grateful he was PM for - including resolving the Brexit dilemma that May was stuck on, and I don't think Hunt could have handled, getting Covid vaccines organised ahead of the curve, and perhaps most importantly the full-throated support for Ukraine.
And he's done some very, very bad things to which its right he's gone for. I'm sure every reader can think of something.
A mix of black and white, shades of grey, if you're still allowed to use those colour analogies and its not politically incorrect. Not totally bad, not totally good. Like all PMs in the end.
And considering the alternative was Jeremy Corbyn - I'll never regret having voted for him.
I think Boris's paradox was having worked for two decades to reach the top of the Conservative Party, become Prime Minister and get his own substantial mandate, it all turned to dust in his hands.
MacMillan might have been brought down by two tarts, Johnson was felled by a microscopic virus.
Yes, his support for Zelenskyy and Ukraine in the first days after the Russian invasion was vital and he deserves credit for that and thanks to his 2019 election victory, he cut the Gordian Knot of Brexit but in the end those who enthused for him ended up turning on him.
I welcome your new objectivity - I look forward to some positive comments on Labour and Liberal Democrat policy and a kind word or two for Starmer and Davey.
My dad's gone. Faded out with mum and my brother and me there with him telling stories of his part glories. He fought a good battle these last few weeks, and you can't ask for any more than that.
My dad's gone. Faded out with mum and my brother and me there with him telling stories of his part glories. He fought a good battle these last few weeks, and you can't ask for any more than that.
Selby I think could be a Conservative hold, bigger Labour vote in 2019 than so Shropshire North and Mid Bedfordshire and smaller LD vote there so local Labour Party will likely fight it in a proper contest and not hand it to the LDs. Thus splitting the anti Conservative vote
I can’t see the LibDems making an effort in Selby and Ainsty. It’s not their demographic at all - Selby is quite working class and surprisingly run down for a market town with an abbey. I agree it’ll probably be a Conservative hold, but Labour have an outside chance.
Incidentally here’s the origin of the “Ainsty” bit:
1) You're thinking of it solely in terms of Selby. The constituency covers a number of prosperous areas with a combination of agricultural, green, tech and traditional industries at its heart. 2) There is money in the constituency - around Harrogate and Knaresborough, the western side of York, the towns and villages of the southern reaches. 3) Selby is not working class. It's far from run down. I know - I was there on Thursday morning. 4) Huge commuter community - from the constituency it's easy to be in the centres of Leeds or York within 15 minutes, Doncaster and Hull within 30 minutes and Sheffield within 45 minutes.
My dad's gone. Faded out with mum and my brother and me there with him telling stories of his part glories. He fought a good battle these last few weeks, and you can't ask for any more than that.
Sympathies. Happened to me recently. It’s never what you expect: for me it was much less painful than I anticipated. For others it is much worse. Good luck
My dad's gone. Faded out with mum and my brother and me there with him telling stories of his part glories. He fought a good battle these last few weeks, and you can't ask for any more than that.
My condolences, sorry for your loss. Best wishes for your whole family in these tough times.
My dad's gone. Faded out with mum and my brother and me there with him telling stories of his part glories. He fought a good battle these last few weeks, and you can't ask for any more than that.
Sorry to hear of your loss. My condolences .
Yes, sorry to hear that Rochdale. There isn't a good way to die - but it sounds like you were there to give him one of the less-bad ones. Touched you shared the moment with it. I shall raise a glass to Rochdale Senior before bedtime tonight.
My dad's gone. Faded out with mum and my brother and me there with him telling stories of his part glories. He fought a good battle these last few weeks, and you can't ask for any more than that.
Sorry to hear of your loss. My condolences .
Yes, sorry to hear that Rochdale. There isn't a good way to die - but it sounds like you were there to give him one of the less-bad ones. Touched you shared the moment with it. I shall raise a glass to Rochdale Senior before bedtime tonight.
Selby I think could be a Conservative hold, bigger Labour vote in 2019 than so Shropshire North and Mid Bedfordshire and smaller LD vote there so local Labour Party will likely fight it in a proper contest and not hand it to the LDs. Thus splitting the anti Conservative vote
I can’t see the LibDems making an effort in Selby and Ainsty. It’s not their demographic at all - Selby is quite working class and surprisingly run down for a market town with an abbey. I agree it’ll probably be a Conservative hold, but Labour have an outside chance.
Incidentally here’s the origin of the “Ainsty” bit:
1) You're thinking of it solely in terms of Selby. The constituency covers a number of prosperous areas with a combination of agricultural, green, tech and traditional industries at its heart. 2) There is money in the constituency - around Harrogate and Knaresborough, the western side of York, the towns and villages of the southern reaches. 3) Selby is not working class. It's far from run down. I know - I was there on Thursday morning. 4) Huge commuter community - from the constituency it's easy to be in the centres of Leeds or York within 15 minutes, Doncaster and Hull within 30 minutes and Sheffield within 45 minutes.
My dad's gone. Faded out with mum and my brother and me there with him telling stories of his part glories. He fought a good battle these last few weeks, and you can't ask for any more than that.
Rumours of a major Ukrainian breakout. Just hope they are true.
Hey @Cicero I've a few relatives going to Tallinn early August do you know of any places they really should go?
How long are they around for?
I think about 4 days and then to a cabin in the woods.
Tallinn only or Tartu , Pärnu or Saaremaa as well?
Ooh I'd have to ask to be sure from my poor memory* they are in Estonia about 8 days. Fly to the capital and pick up a car. Flat in the city for 4 days and then some place in the woods for about as long.
*I do think they were visiting an island near Tallinn for a day too.
I think qualifying PB contributors should be tagged with “I supported Boris”.
Only BartyBobbins is open about it, so far as I can tell.
Oh I’m very happy to tell you I was then, and remain now, incredibly grateful for him forcing Brexit through. I take the long view on anything else he did or didn’t do, as anything can be tweaked by future Governments now. I also think he was useful when Ukraine happened in stopping us hesitating.
Precisely.
The worst thing about politics is how too many people take a "my side right or wrong" attitude and then act like their side is perfect and flawless, and the other side is wretched and has no merit.
No leader is perfect. No leader as Blair claimed to be is "whiter than white". All leaders have a mixed legacy in the end.
That applies to Boris as much if not more than most. He's done some very, very good things to which I'm grateful he was PM for - including resolving the Brexit dilemma that May was stuck on, and I don't think Hunt could have handled, getting Covid vaccines organised ahead of the curve, and perhaps most importantly the full-throated support for Ukraine.
And he's done some very, very bad things to which its right he's gone for. I'm sure every reader can think of something.
A mix of black and white, shades of grey, if you're still allowed to use those colour analogies and its not politically incorrect. Not totally bad, not totally good. Like all PMs in the end.
And considering the alternative was Jeremy Corbyn - I'll never regret having voted for him.
I think Boris's paradox was having worked for two decades to reach the top of the Conservative Party, become Prime Minister and get his own substantial mandate, it all turned to dust in his hands.
MacMillan might have been brought down by two tarts, Johnson was felled by a microscopic virus.
Yes, his support for Zelenskyy and Ukraine in the first days after the Russian invasion was vital and he deserves credit for that and thanks to his 2019 election victory, he cut the Gordian Knot of Brexit but in the end those who enthused for him ended up turning on him.
I welcome your new objectivity - I look forward to some positive comments on Labour and Liberal Democrat policy and a kind word or two for Starmer and Davey.
Davey - He was good on not being totally obsessed with lockdown, not taking the opportunism of being more pro-lockdown than the Government when the media were talking up nothing but risk, and for highlighting the civil liberties issues towards the end. Some sparks of true liberalism and I respect that.
Starmer - Seems to have grasped that housing is one of the biggest issues facing this country, that NIMBYism is a too easy thing to go for, and that having had our levels of population growth we need many more homes in this country and the only places they can realistically go is on greenfield land because there is no alternative.
@christopherhope 8s EXCLUSIVE in the Sunday Telegraph MPs on Commons privileges committee consider sanctions against Boris Johnson's supporters behind 'kangaroo court' attacks on 'partygate' inquiry. Johnson allies say it is a 'McCarthyite purge'.
@christopherhope 7s Members of the committee believe the remarks of some critical MPs amount to contempt of Parliament and want action. Possible sanctions range from an addendum to its partygate report criticising the MPs to a censure motion and divisive vote in the Commons. 2/3
@christopherhope 38s The move would risk more Tory MP resignations, with supporters of Mr Johnson pledging an all-out revolt if Conservative whips fail to block such a scheme. One Government source said: “This is an attempt to purge Johnson supporters from the party. It is McCarthyism.” 3/3
I think qualifying PB contributors should be tagged with “I supported Boris”.
Only BartyBobbins is open about it, so far as I can tell.
Oh I’m very happy to tell you I was then, and remain now, incredibly grateful for him forcing Brexit through. I take the long view on anything else he did or didn’t do, as anything can be tweaked by future Governments now. I also think he was useful when Ukraine happened in stopping us hesitating.
Precisely.
The worst thing about politics is how too many people take a "my side right or wrong" attitude and then act like their side is perfect and flawless, and the other side is wretched and has no merit.
No leader is perfect. No leader as Blair claimed to be is "whiter than white". All leaders have a mixed legacy in the end.
That applies to Boris as much if not more than most. He's done some very, very good things to which I'm grateful he was PM for - including resolving the Brexit dilemma that May was stuck on, and I don't think Hunt could have handled, getting Covid vaccines organised ahead of the curve, and perhaps most importantly the full-throated support for Ukraine.
And he's done some very, very bad things to which its right he's gone for. I'm sure every reader can think of something.
A mix of black and white, shades of grey, if you're still allowed to use those colour analogies and its not politically incorrect. Not totally bad, not totally good. Like all PMs in the end.
And considering the alternative was Jeremy Corbyn - I'll never regret having voted for him.
Utter drivel. He was appalling on every measure. Pure poison.
No he wasn't. You're letting your subjective dislike of him run away with you. He certainly wasn't appalling on every measure. No one is.
I think qualifying PB contributors should be tagged with “I supported Boris”.
Only BartyBobbins is open about it, so far as I can tell.
Oh I’m very happy to tell you I was then, and remain now, incredibly grateful for him forcing Brexit through. I take the long view on anything else he did or didn’t do, as anything can be tweaked by future Governments now. I also think he was useful when Ukraine happened in stopping us hesitating.
Precisely.
The worst thing about politics is how too many people take a "my side right or wrong" attitude and then act like their side is perfect and flawless, and the other side is wretched and has no merit.
No leader is perfect. No leader as Blair claimed to be is "whiter than white". All leaders have a mixed legacy in the end.
That applies to Boris as much if not more than most. He's done some very, very good things to which I'm grateful he was PM for - including resolving the Brexit dilemma that May was stuck on, and I don't think Hunt could have handled, getting Covid vaccines organised ahead of the curve, and perhaps most importantly the full-throated support for Ukraine.
And he's done some very, very bad things to which its right he's gone for. I'm sure every reader can think of something.
A mix of black and white, shades of grey, if you're still allowed to use those colour analogies and its not politically incorrect. Not totally bad, not totally good. Like all PMs in the end.
And considering the alternative was Jeremy Corbyn - I'll never regret having voted for him.
Utter drivel. He was appalling on every measure. Pure poison.
So his support for Ukraine was appalling?
Or are you perhaps exaggerating and doing exactly what I just said.
I think qualifying PB contributors should be tagged with “I supported Boris”.
Only BartyBobbins is open about it, so far as I can tell.
Oh I’m very happy to tell you I was then, and remain now, incredibly grateful for him forcing Brexit through. I take the long view on anything else he did or didn’t do, as anything can be tweaked by future Governments now. I also think he was useful when Ukraine happened in stopping us hesitating.
Precisely.
The worst thing about politics is how too many people take a "my side right or wrong" attitude and then act like their side is perfect and flawless, and the other side is wretched and has no merit.
No leader is perfect. No leader as Blair claimed to be is "whiter than white". All leaders have a mixed legacy in the end.
That applies to Boris as much if not more than most. He's done some very, very good things to which I'm grateful he was PM for - including resolving the Brexit dilemma that May was stuck on, and I don't think Hunt could have handled, getting Covid vaccines organised ahead of the curve, and perhaps most importantly the full-throated support for Ukraine.
And he's done some very, very bad things to which its right he's gone for. I'm sure every reader can think of something.
A mix of black and white, shades of grey, if you're still allowed to use those colour analogies and its not politically incorrect. Not totally bad, not totally good. Like all PMs in the end.
And considering the alternative was Jeremy Corbyn - I'll never regret having voted for him.
I think Boris's paradox was having worked for two decades to reach the top of the Conservative Party, become Prime Minister and get his own substantial mandate, it all turned to dust in his hands.
MacMillan might have been brought down by two tarts, Johnson was felled by a microscopic virus.
Yes, his support for Zelenskyy and Ukraine in the first days after the Russian invasion was vital and he deserves credit for that and thanks to his 2019 election victory, he cut the Gordian Knot of Brexit but in the end those who enthused for him ended up turning on him.
I welcome your new objectivity - I look forward to some positive comments on Labour and Liberal Democrat policy and a kind word or two for Starmer and Davey.
Macmillan wasn't brought down by "two tarts" as you crudely put it. He was brought down by men he appointed to the most senior and sensitive roles, who couldn't think except with their genitals.
Keir Starmer tells Rishi Sunak to 'get a backbone' and call a general election NOW
Keir Starmer said people have had enough of the 'farce' of Tory rule and want a general election now. He also accused Rishi Sunak of losing control as the Conservatives descend into civil war
@christopherhope 8s EXCLUSIVE in the Sunday Telegraph MPs on Commons privileges committee consider sanctions against Boris Johnson's supporters behind 'kangaroo court' attacks on 'partygate' inquiry. Johnson allies say it is a 'McCarthyite purge'.
@christopherhope 7s Members of the committee believe the remarks of some critical MPs amount to contempt of Parliament and want action. Possible sanctions range from an addendum to its partygate report criticising the MPs to a censure motion and divisive vote in the Commons. 2/3
@christopherhope 38s The move would risk more Tory MP resignations, with supporters of Mr Johnson pledging an all-out revolt if Conservative whips fail to block such a scheme. One Government source said: “This is an attempt to purge Johnson supporters from the party. It is McCarthyism.” 3/3
BRING IT ON !!!
We don't often agree but Johnson and his sycophants need marginalising
Keir Starmer tells Rishi Sunak to 'get a backbone' and call a general election NOW
Keir Starmer said people have had enough of the 'farce' of Tory rule and want a general election now. He also accused Rishi Sunak of losing control as the Conservatives descend into civil war
Keir Starmer tells Rishi Sunak to 'get a backbone' and call a general election NOW
Keir Starmer said people have had enough of the 'farce' of Tory rule and want a general election now. He also accused Rishi Sunak of losing control as the Conservatives descend into civil war
I think qualifying PB contributors should be tagged with “I supported Boris”.
Only BartyBobbins is open about it, so far as I can tell.
Oh I’m very happy to tell you I was then, and remain now, incredibly grateful for him forcing Brexit through. I take the long view on anything else he did or didn’t do, as anything can be tweaked by future Governments now. I also think he was useful when Ukraine happened in stopping us hesitating.
Precisely.
The worst thing about politics is how too many people take a "my side right or wrong" attitude and then act like their side is perfect and flawless, and the other side is wretched and has no merit.
No leader is perfect. No leader as Blair claimed to be is "whiter than white". All leaders have a mixed legacy in the end.
That applies to Boris as much if not more than most. He's done some very, very good things to which I'm grateful he was PM for - including resolving the Brexit dilemma that May was stuck on, and I don't think Hunt could have handled, getting Covid vaccines organised ahead of the curve, and perhaps most importantly the full-throated support for Ukraine.
And he's done some very, very bad things to which its right he's gone for. I'm sure every reader can think of something.
A mix of black and white, shades of grey, if you're still allowed to use those colour analogies and its not politically incorrect. Not totally bad, not totally good. Like all PMs in the end.
And considering the alternative was Jeremy Corbyn - I'll never regret having voted for him.
I think Boris's paradox was having worked for two decades to reach the top of the Conservative Party, become Prime Minister and get his own substantial mandate, it all turned to dust in his hands.
MacMillan might have been brought down by two tarts, Johnson was felled by a microscopic virus.
Yes, his support for Zelenskyy and Ukraine in the first days after the Russian invasion was vital and he deserves credit for that and thanks to his 2019 election victory, he cut the Gordian Knot of Brexit but in the end those who enthused for him ended up turning on him.
I welcome your new objectivity - I look forward to some positive comments on Labour and Liberal Democrat policy and a kind word or two for Starmer and Davey.
Macmillan wasn't brought down by "two tarts" as you crudely put it. He was brought down by men he appointed to the most senior and sensitive roles, who couldn't think except with their genitals.
He was brought down in part because they lived in a different time where what people did with their genitals mattered.
Thank goodness we've moved on from that nowadays and people are free to be who they are, and with who they want to, rather than that being news or something we judge people for.
A few years after the referendum I think I said something like 'if Brexit is our biggest problem in the years ahead we will be truly fortunate people', one pandemic and a major European war later I think that sadly I was correct.
Video of a guardsman after fainting. The band keeps playing and none of the people near him help. This country is fucking weird sick.
I think that would happen in any self-respecting military in the world. Military personnel can’t just stop what they’re doing (having been specifically ordered to do it) whatever the circumstances
Not when you're doing something of vital importance, maybe.
But they're playing trombones.
That’s not the way it works. Soldiers can’t judge for yourself themselves if a lawful order is of vital importance and prioritise accordingly. That’s what military discipline is all about. That’s true in all armies, at least the ones that function properly, not just the British one. I’m no soldier but being on parade, which is what they were doing, I understand has a role in promoting that discipline so military types may say it is of vital importance. Saying they’re not helping just because they’re from this specific country is plain wrong.
Most countries don't put people out in the hot sunshine wearing enormous fur hats though!
I find it hard to believe many countries do not have soldiers in inappropriate gear in hot weather.
That's not to say it may not be a problem, but it seems a poor case to do a 'woe is the UK' about.
Which ones? I remember seen Greek ones but that were furry bobbles on the toes... funny but not mad. I've tried googling a few other countries and I don't see much in the way of giant furry hats. It's insane. It's literally mad. We are a mad country.
You are an arse or the worst order.
A list of the other countries that use bearskin caps, including Canada, Sweden, Sri Lanka (notably chilly there) and Belgium, is at the below link -
You are the reason why the left in the U.K. gets nowhere. You think that insulting the country is the best way of winning votes.
I resent that.
Not the "arse" thing, that's fair game. No, it's the accusation that criticising this country is the province of the left. I'm a dyed in the bearskin wool liberal. Not left or right, centre. Centre liberal. With a penchant for needling at British shibboleths. If you want to use me as evidence that you shouldn't vote for left-wing parties good. I don't want you to vote for leftist parties.
And Doug. Mate. Cheer up. It's a lovely warm evening. Have a bear beer. But don't get dehydrated, eh lad?
You are about as centrist as Corbyn
That might be true it might not, but it is still true that the right criticise the country as well. Rees-Mogg is a complete radicalist rather than a traditionalist for example, who wants to adopt an explicitly presidential PM system. Just one of many examples.
The ever moaning leftist strand of this sort of thing is true and annoying, but they are not alone.
Well it comes down to needing to define what you mean again. Blood semantics.
To state my position, I'm - economically centrist (private business, capitalism, social safety net, keep a lid on generational inequality, reward innovation and risk taking), - socially extremely liberal (let people do what the fuck they like as long as they aren't hurting anyone, actively punish discrimination that constrains opportunities or controls people, do not offer state incentives or disincentives for people to live in particular ways) - constitutionally radical (abolish the monarchy, bring in PR, throw the Lords out onto the kerb, devolve and pool powers away from Westminster to regions/nations/EU, open to Scottish independence) - dispositionally anti-authoritarian (dislike of surveillance, defending the right to protest and strike, suspicious of coercive power structures like political parties, faiths, political trade unions, wealthy political donors, enforced patriotism)
I get called a lefty I think because of that constitutional radicalism, and to be fair there are elements in there that fit comfortably with the left. But that's only because elements of the left fit well with the abolition of meaningless hierarchies. And the sense that some fucking idiot like Jacob Rees Mogg can be considered "better" than anyone on here is numbingly offensive. It makes me sick to see people tug their forelock when confronted with a plummy voice and a well-cut suit.
But this same trait fits pretty badly with leftism as well. I don't want stuff nationalised just for the sake of it because government is worse than the market for getting people what they want. In all cases where a market can operate freely, which is almost all economic life, give people the space to operate freely. Yes, state power sits atop all that because that's the pathway to check overweaning power of very big businesses and cartels, but as long as businesses aren't taking the piss, leave them alone.
Ultimately politics is about what government should do and government should be about maximising freedom with a special focus on keeping the weak and voiceless free.
I honestly can't think of a better way to describe all the above other than liberalism. Yes, not all liberals will agree with my constitutional radicalism but it's all with a means to an end, to free up unnecessary restrictions on who can become what. There's always been a tension between my constitutional radicalism and conservatism for its own sake. But there's always been a tension between leftism and my belief in economic freedom. So I'm not a conservative, and I'm not a leftist.
And I'm so sorry for typing so much about me me me but I get frustrated when I see people not understanding a thing when it seems so clear to me. The world isn't just divided into left or conservative and the lack of ability of some people to see in anything other than red v blue.. it blisters me.
Most of what you support from your list above Corbyn would also have happily supported, so my point stands
Yes, that well known defender of free-market capitalism Jeremy Corbyn
And I'm sorry to have to make this explicit, but yes, I do agree with some things Corbyn said. Doesn't mean I'd ever want to vote for the odious little twerp, but if you can't find something to pick out of almost every political tradition that you're completely lost from the real world.
'social safety net, keep a lid on generational inequality,' is hardly pure free market capitalism now is it!
See, the problem there is the word "pure". Purity is the most dangerous political idea, and it's always the one you're obsessed with. I'm not just comfortable with, but actively proud of my political impurity.
100% agreed with you. Could not agree with you more.
It is imperfections and impurities that help us evolve and progress. If you're completely pure on everything, then you're an incredibly boring and unthinking individual.
Keir Starmer tells Rishi Sunak to 'get a backbone' and call a general election NOW
Keir Starmer said people have had enough of the 'farce' of Tory rule and want a general election now. He also accused Rishi Sunak of losing control as the Conservatives descend into civil war
Selby I think could be a Conservative hold, bigger Labour vote in 2019 than so Shropshire North and Mid Bedfordshire and smaller LD vote there so local Labour Party will likely fight it in a proper contest and not hand it to the LDs. Thus splitting the anti Conservative vote
I can’t see the LibDems making an effort in Selby and Ainsty. It’s not their demographic at all - Selby is quite working class and surprisingly run down for a market town with an abbey. I agree it’ll probably be a Conservative hold, but Labour have an outside chance.
Incidentally here’s the origin of the “Ainsty” bit:
1) You're thinking of it solely in terms of Selby. The constituency covers a number of prosperous areas with a combination of agricultural, green, tech and traditional industries at its heart. 2) There is money in the constituency - around Harrogate and Knaresborough, the western side of York, the towns and villages of the southern reaches. 3) Selby is not working class. It's far from run down. I know - I was there on Thursday morning. 4) Huge commuter community - from the constituency it's easy to be in the centres of Leeds or York within 15 minutes, Doncaster and Hull within 30 minutes and Sheffield within 45 minutes.
Video of a guardsman after fainting. The band keeps playing and none of the people near him help. This country is fucking weird sick.
I think that would happen in any self-respecting military in the world. Military personnel can’t just stop what they’re doing (having been specifically ordered to do it) whatever the circumstances
Not when you're doing something of vital importance, maybe.
But they're playing trombones.
That’s not the way it works. Soldiers can’t judge for yourself themselves if a lawful order is of vital importance and prioritise accordingly. That’s what military discipline is all about. That’s true in all armies, at least the ones that function properly, not just the British one. I’m no soldier but being on parade, which is what they were doing, I understand has a role in promoting that discipline so military types may say it is of vital importance. Saying they’re not helping just because they’re from this specific country is plain wrong.
Most countries don't put people out in the hot sunshine wearing enormous fur hats though!
I find it hard to believe many countries do not have soldiers in inappropriate gear in hot weather.
That's not to say it may not be a problem, but it seems a poor case to do a 'woe is the UK' about.
Which ones? I remember seen Greek ones but that were furry bobbles on the toes... funny but not mad. I've tried googling a few other countries and I don't see much in the way of giant furry hats. It's insane. It's literally mad. We are a mad country.
You are an arse or the worst order.
A list of the other countries that use bearskin caps, including Canada, Sweden, Sri Lanka (notably chilly there) and Belgium, is at the below link -
You are the reason why the left in the U.K. gets nowhere. You think that insulting the country is the best way of winning votes.
I resent that.
Not the "arse" thing, that's fair game. No, it's the accusation that criticising this country is the province of the left. I'm a dyed in the bearskin wool liberal. Not left or right, centre. Centre liberal. With a penchant for needling at British shibboleths. If you want to use me as evidence that you shouldn't vote for left-wing parties good. I don't want you to vote for leftist parties.
And Doug. Mate. Cheer up. It's a lovely warm evening. Have a bear beer. But don't get dehydrated, eh lad?
You are about as centrist as Corbyn
That might be true it might not, but it is still true that the right criticise the country as well. Rees-Mogg is a complete radicalist rather than a traditionalist for example, who wants to adopt an explicitly presidential PM system. Just one of many examples.
The ever moaning leftist strand of this sort of thing is true and annoying, but they are not alone.
Well it comes down to needing to define what you mean again. Blood semantics.
To state my position, I'm - economically centrist (private business, capitalism, social safety net, keep a lid on generational inequality, reward innovation and risk taking), - socially extremely liberal (let people do what the fuck they like as long as they aren't hurting anyone, actively punish discrimination that constrains opportunities or controls people, do not offer state incentives or disincentives for people to live in particular ways) - constitutionally radical (abolish the monarchy, bring in PR, throw the Lords out onto the kerb, devolve and pool powers away from Westminster to regions/nations/EU, open to Scottish independence) - dispositionally anti-authoritarian (dislike of surveillance, defending the right to protest and strike, suspicious of coercive power structures like political parties, faiths, political trade unions, wealthy political donors, enforced patriotism)
I get called a lefty I think because of that constitutional radicalism, and to be fair there are elements in there that fit comfortably with the left. But that's only because elements of the left fit well with the abolition of meaningless hierarchies. And the sense that some fucking idiot like Jacob Rees Mogg can be considered "better" than anyone on here is numbingly offensive. It makes me sick to see people tug their forelock when confronted with a plummy voice and a well-cut suit.
But this same trait fits pretty badly with leftism as well. I don't want stuff nationalised just for the sake of it because government is worse than the market for getting people what they want. In all cases where a market can operate freely, which is almost all economic life, give people the space to operate freely. Yes, state power sits atop all that because that's the pathway to check overweaning power of very big businesses and cartels, but as long as businesses aren't taking the piss, leave them alone.
Ultimately politics is about what government should do and government should be about maximising freedom with a special focus on keeping the weak and voiceless free.
I honestly can't think of a better way to describe all the above other than liberalism. Yes, not all liberals will agree with my constitutional radicalism but it's all with a means to an end, to free up unnecessary restrictions on who can become what. There's always been a tension between my constitutional radicalism and conservatism for its own sake. But there's always been a tension between leftism and my belief in economic freedom. So I'm not a conservative, and I'm not a leftist.
And I'm so sorry for typing so much about me me me but I get frustrated when I see people not understanding a thing when it seems so clear to me. The world isn't just divided into left or conservative and the lack of ability of some people to see in anything other than red v blue.. it blisters me.
Most of what you support from your list above Corbyn would also have happily supported, so my point stands
Yes, that well known defender of free-market capitalism Jeremy Corbyn
And I'm sorry to have to make this explicit, but yes, I do agree with some things Corbyn said. Doesn't mean I'd ever want to vote for the odious little twerp, but if you can't find something to pick out of almost every political tradition that you're completely lost from the real world.
'social safety net, keep a lid on generational inequality,' is hardly pure free market capitalism now is it!
See, the problem there is the word "pure". Purity is the most dangerous political idea, and it's always the one you're obsessed with. I'm not just comfortable with, but actively proud of my political impurity.
Additional: this really gets to the heart of the matter. The reason why central planning doesn't work is because economies are too complex for one person, or even one parliament, to plan. You need millions of minds working in concert and in competition to build a working, effective, modern economy and keep it ticking over.
The same is true of grand political theories. You can't do it. Nobody can hold a theory of politics in their head that is anywhere near adequate. So you need broad principles, you need an evidence-based approach, you need the space to debate and change direction, you need to be able to get rid of people who do not contribute well to the running of a system.
I think that HYUFD fancies himself to have a good working model of the world in his head and is intolerant of others' deviations from that. And you've got a good dovecote of labels to put people in that helps you dismiss their challenges. You can categorise their impurity like some Victorian scientist labels pickled specimens. But you can't really shut out the crackling quantum world that keeps tunnelling its way into your glassware. You can't push the planets back to where you Copernican models say they should be. It's all a bit off, because you're living a Steampunk politics and you keep bumping up against Heisenbergs and Einsteins who know that your timing is off but can't explain it to you because you just can't seem to listen. The static of the big bang is hissing in your vacuum tubes but you're deaf.
When did you last vote Conservative? If you were really a centrist in UK terms you might have voted for Blair and now might vote for Starmer but you would also have voted for Cameron, May and Boris in 2019 and voted Leave in 2016
My dad's gone. Faded out with mum and my brother and me there with him telling stories of his part glories. He fought a good battle these last few weeks, and you can't ask for any more than that.
Sympathies. Happened to me recently. It’s never what you expect: for me it was much less painful than I anticipated. For others it is much worse. Good luck
Me too.
There something about a son losing his father. Also, a daughter losing her mother.
It changes the son. And the daughter.
Forgive my cod psychology.
But it is, imo, an important event for every man and woman. To an extent, it’s an event that defines us.
@christopherhope 8s EXCLUSIVE in the Sunday Telegraph MPs on Commons privileges committee consider sanctions against Boris Johnson's supporters behind 'kangaroo court' attacks on 'partygate' inquiry. Johnson allies say it is a 'McCarthyite purge'.
@christopherhope 7s Members of the committee believe the remarks of some critical MPs amount to contempt of Parliament and want action. Possible sanctions range from an addendum to its partygate report criticising the MPs to a censure motion and divisive vote in the Commons. 2/3
@christopherhope 38s The move would risk more Tory MP resignations, with supporters of Mr Johnson pledging an all-out revolt if Conservative whips fail to block such a scheme. One Government source said: “This is an attempt to purge Johnson supporters from the party. It is McCarthyism.” 3/3
BRING IT ON !!!
We don't often agree but Johnson and his sycophants need marginalising
Sorry but I think this is a step way too far.
I am delighted to see the back of Johnson but a direct attack on free speech like this (if the reports are true) is absolutely unacceptable. The Johnson supporters may be stupid and wrong but they are alowed to be and we absolutely should not be starting down the road of sanctioning people for what they say in this way.
There is a potential here for the committee to lose a lot of the good will and support it has attracted if it pursues such a partisan agenda.
I was watching the first episode of Yes Minister earlier, actually one of the episodes I remember less well than others.
Notable to me that Hacker is said to have increased his majority, yet also only had a majority of a few thousand, so no wonder he was always so nervous. He apparently ran the leadership campaign against the incoming PM, so was uncertain what post he might get - so him then getting the top job just a few years later was quite the coup. And a journalist comment says he's a bit on the young side for a Cabinet post (he had been shadow minister for agriculture), whilst also saying he is in his late 40s. Different times I guess.
Yes Minister is basically a documentary about the civil service of the 50-70's. It never really caught up with the 80's on.
I think qualifying PB contributors should be tagged with “I supported Boris”.
Only BartyBobbins is open about it, so far as I can tell.
Oh I’m very happy to tell you I was then, and remain now, incredibly grateful for him forcing Brexit through. I take the long view on anything else he did or didn’t do, as anything can be tweaked by future Governments now. I also think he was useful when Ukraine happened in stopping us hesitating.
Precisely.
The worst thing about politics is how too many people take a "my side right or wrong" attitude and then act like their side is perfect and flawless, and the other side is wretched and has no merit.
No leader is perfect. No leader as Blair claimed to be is "whiter than white". All leaders have a mixed legacy in the end.
That applies to Boris as much if not more than most. He's done some very, very good things to which I'm grateful he was PM for - including resolving the Brexit dilemma that May was stuck on, and I don't think Hunt could have handled, getting Covid vaccines organised ahead of the curve, and perhaps most importantly the full-throated support for Ukraine.
And he's done some very, very bad things to which its right he's gone for. I'm sure every reader can think of something.
A mix of black and white, shades of grey, if you're still allowed to use those colour analogies and its not politically incorrect. Not totally bad, not totally good. Like all PMs in the end.
And considering the alternative was Jeremy Corbyn - I'll never regret having voted for him.
I think Boris's paradox was having worked for two decades to reach the top of the Conservative Party, become Prime Minister and get his own substantial mandate, it all turned to dust in his hands.
MacMillan might have been brought down by two tarts, Johnson was felled by a microscopic virus.
Yes, his support for Zelenskyy and Ukraine in the first days after the Russian invasion was vital and he deserves credit for that and thanks to his 2019 election victory, he cut the Gordian Knot of Brexit but in the end those who enthused for him ended up turning on him.
I welcome your new objectivity - I look forward to some positive comments on Labour and Liberal Democrat policy and a kind word or two for Starmer and Davey.
Macmillan wasn't brought down by "two tarts" as you crudely put it. He was brought down by men he appointed to the most senior and sensitive roles, who couldn't think except with their genitals.
He was brought down in part because they lived in a different time where what people did with their genitals mattered.
Thank goodness we've moved on from that nowadays and people are free to be who they are, and with who they want to, rather than that being news or something we judge people for.
Oh. In general I agree. But there were huge security implications at the height of the Cold War about where genitals were being mutually deployed. Which I don't think would be different nowadays. None of which was any responsibility of the young females involved.
Rumours of a major Ukrainian breakout. Just hope they are true.
Hey @Cicero I've a few relatives going to Tallinn early August do you know of any places they really should go?
How long are they around for?
I think about 4 days and then to a cabin in the woods.
Tallinn only or Tartu , Pärnu or Saaremaa as well?
Ooh I'd have to ask to be sure from my poor memory* they are in Estonia about 8 days. Fly to the capital and pick up a car. Flat in the city for 4 days and then some place in the woods for about as long.
*I do think they were visiting an island near Tallinn for a day too.
Probably either Aegna or Naisaar. Tell them to bring jungle strength anti bug spray- Aegna in particular has both mosquitos and nasty Horse flies. Also make sure their anti tick jabs are up to date, Lots to do in Tallinn, but depends which direction and how far the cabin is as to where else they explore. I can certainly recommend the Korvemaa nature preserve, especially the lakes and the great marsh which is eerie and beautiful and only about 35 mins from Tallinn. Otherwise the Lahemaa National park, about an hour east of Tallinn has interesting manor houses and museums. Headed West, Haapsalu is a pretty little coastal town with spas and swimming and a Kursaal. The University city of Tartu is worth a look too, and the Alatskivi Castle on the Peipsi lake, a replica Balmoral which is close to a string of Old Believer Fishing villages. As for Tallinn itself, the Old Town, Kadriorg Castle, walking along the caost to Pirita and the old Abbey, stopping at the memorial to the dead of Communism and the Museum of Estonian History. In the evening Tellsikivi is the happening area.
I think qualifying PB contributors should be tagged with “I supported Boris”.
Only BartyBobbins is open about it, so far as I can tell.
Oh I’m very happy to tell you I was then, and remain now, incredibly grateful for him forcing Brexit through. I take the long view on anything else he did or didn’t do, as anything can be tweaked by future Governments now. I also think he was useful when Ukraine happened in stopping us hesitating.
Precisely.
The worst thing about politics is how too many people take a "my side right or wrong" attitude and then act like their side is perfect and flawless, and the other side is wretched and has no merit.
No leader is perfect. No leader as Blair claimed to be is "whiter than white". All leaders have a mixed legacy in the end.
That applies to Boris as much if not more than most. He's done some very, very good things to which I'm grateful he was PM for - including resolving the Brexit dilemma that May was stuck on, and I don't think Hunt could have handled, getting Covid vaccines organised ahead of the curve, and perhaps most importantly the full-throated support for Ukraine.
And he's done some very, very bad things to which its right he's gone for. I'm sure every reader can think of something.
A mix of black and white, shades of grey, if you're still allowed to use those colour analogies and its not politically incorrect. Not totally bad, not totally good. Like all PMs in the end.
And considering the alternative was Jeremy Corbyn - I'll never regret having voted for him.
I think Boris's paradox was having worked for two decades to reach the top of the Conservative Party, become Prime Minister and get his own substantial mandate, it all turned to dust in his hands.
MacMillan might have been brought down by two tarts, Johnson was felled by a microscopic virus.
Yes, his support for Zelenskyy and Ukraine in the first days after the Russian invasion was vital and he deserves credit for that and thanks to his 2019 election victory, he cut the Gordian Knot of Brexit but in the end those who enthused for him ended up turning on him.
I welcome your new objectivity - I look forward to some positive comments on Labour and Liberal Democrat policy and a kind word or two for Starmer and Davey.
Macmillan wasn't brought down by "two tarts" as you crudely put it. He was brought down by men he appointed to the most senior and sensitive roles, who couldn't think except with their genitals.
He was brought down in part because they lived in a different time where what people did with their genitals mattered.
Thank goodness we've moved on from that nowadays and people are free to be who they are, and with who they want to, rather than that being news or something we judge people for.
I'm no expert, but it was more than just over-enthusiastic use of genitalia wasn't it? Weren't there also Russian spies involved?
I think qualifying PB contributors should be tagged with “I supported Boris”.
Only BartyBobbins is open about it, so far as I can tell.
Oh I’m very happy to tell you I was then, and remain now, incredibly grateful for him forcing Brexit through. I take the long view on anything else he did or didn’t do, as anything can be tweaked by future Governments now. I also think he was useful when Ukraine happened in stopping us hesitating.
Precisely.
The worst thing about politics is how too many people take a "my side right or wrong" attitude and then act like their side is perfect and flawless, and the other side is wretched and has no merit.
No leader is perfect. No leader as Blair claimed to be is "whiter than white". All leaders have a mixed legacy in the end.
That applies to Boris as much if not more than most. He's done some very, very good things to which I'm grateful he was PM for - including resolving the Brexit dilemma that May was stuck on, and I don't think Hunt could have handled, getting Covid vaccines organised ahead of the curve, and perhaps most importantly the full-throated support for Ukraine.
And he's done some very, very bad things to which its right he's gone for. I'm sure every reader can think of something.
A mix of black and white, shades of grey, if you're still allowed to use those colour analogies and its not politically incorrect. Not totally bad, not totally good. Like all PMs in the end.
And considering the alternative was Jeremy Corbyn - I'll never regret having voted for him.
Utter drivel. He was appalling on every measure. Pure poison.
No he wasn't. You're letting your subjective dislike of him run away with you. He certainly wasn't appalling on every measure. No one is.
No, I've nailed it with complete 100% objective accuracy. There are plenty of Tory politicians I either rate or like or both. But not this one. He trashed the place and for nothing but kicks.
Video of a guardsman after fainting. The band keeps playing and none of the people near him help. This country is fucking weird sick.
I think that would happen in any self-respecting military in the world. Military personnel can’t just stop what they’re doing (having been specifically ordered to do it) whatever the circumstances
Isn't it a military concept to not leave your own people behind?
Military personnel I would hope would if they thought one of their colleagues was hurt go to support them and help them.
I think the reality is in these circumstances they continued precisely because they did not think their colleague was hurt, even if he'd fainted, and that help would come from elsewhere so they didn't need to help. If it was a more serious incident, I don't think they'd leave someone to die without offering support.
My dad's gone. Faded out with mum and my brother and me there with him telling stories of his part glories. He fought a good battle these last few weeks, and you can't ask for any more than that.
Just seen this RP. Really sorry sir. I lost my old man 11 years ago next week. I won't tell you the pain ever really goes away but time does ease it somewhat. I am glad that, from what you say, he had a good parting.
As a Pratchett fan I will send a GNU for him tonight. If you don't know what that means rest assured it is the greatest compliment.
I was watching the first episode of Yes Minister earlier, actually one of the episodes I remember less well than others.
Notable to me that Hacker is said to have increased his majority, yet also only had a majority of a few thousand, so no wonder he was always so nervous. He apparently ran the leadership campaign against the incoming PM, so was uncertain what post he might get - so him then getting the top job just a few years later was quite the coup. And a journalist comment says he's a bit on the young side for a Cabinet post (he had been shadow minister for agriculture), whilst also saying he is in his late 40s. Different times I guess.
Yes Minister is basically a documentary about the civil service of the 50-70's. It never really caught up with the 80's on.
Trouble is both Labour and Conservative politicians growing up in the 1980s convinced themselves Yes, Minister is a documentary, which is why on reaching office they flooded the place with SpAds to control the hostile and obstructive Civil Service, and became dependent on management consultants for policy advice and on outsourcers for implementation.
I think qualifying PB contributors should be tagged with “I supported Boris”.
Only BartyBobbins is open about it, so far as I can tell.
Oh I’m very happy to tell you I was then, and remain now, incredibly grateful for him forcing Brexit through. I take the long view on anything else he did or didn’t do, as anything can be tweaked by future Governments now. I also think he was useful when Ukraine happened in stopping us hesitating.
Precisely.
The worst thing about politics is how too many people take a "my side right or wrong" attitude and then act like their side is perfect and flawless, and the other side is wretched and has no merit.
No leader is perfect. No leader as Blair claimed to be is "whiter than white". All leaders have a mixed legacy in the end.
That applies to Boris as much if not more than most. He's done some very, very good things to which I'm grateful he was PM for - including resolving the Brexit dilemma that May was stuck on, and I don't think Hunt could have handled, getting Covid vaccines organised ahead of the curve, and perhaps most importantly the full-throated support for Ukraine.
And he's done some very, very bad things to which its right he's gone for. I'm sure every reader can think of something.
A mix of black and white, shades of grey, if you're still allowed to use those colour analogies and its not politically incorrect. Not totally bad, not totally good. Like all PMs in the end.
And considering the alternative was Jeremy Corbyn - I'll never regret having voted for him.
Utter drivel. He was appalling on every measure. Pure poison.
So his support for Ukraine was appalling?
Or are you perhaps exaggerating and doing exactly what I just said.
Milked it for his own glorification. Vomit inducing.
The Privileges Committee are clearly incensed by Johnson’s tirade and his cult trashing them . I don’t think they’ll go much further though than just a slap on the wrist for the Bozo arse lickers .
Selby I think could be a Conservative hold, bigger Labour vote in 2019 than so Shropshire North and Mid Bedfordshire and smaller LD vote there so local Labour Party will likely fight it in a proper contest and not hand it to the LDs. Thus splitting the anti Conservative vote
I can’t see the LibDems making an effort in Selby and Ainsty. It’s not their demographic at all - Selby is quite working class and surprisingly run down for a market town with an abbey. I agree it’ll probably be a Conservative hold, but Labour have an outside chance.
Incidentally here’s the origin of the “Ainsty” bit:
And. Importantly. A totally different demographic in the non-Selby bits. Southern part of York including University then. Prosperous commuter villages around Harrogate now.
Are you sure about this? Selby's quite a long way from Harrogate.
Antietam is quiet and sombre and haunting. Not like other battlefields. More like a bad World War 1 battlefield. I guess they were similar
Indeed all the hallmarks of WW1 battles were present in the US civil war, machine guns, artilliary, trenches, the lot.
It’s a weird one, it was a foretaste of mechanical war between relatively equal powers that foreshadowed WW1 and mixed old warfare with industrial warfare but it’s often written up with huge casualties that don’t actually come close proportionally to earlier or later wars.
For example Gettysburg deaths were around 7000 out of a population of approx 31m (Antietam just under 4,000) Compared to Towton with low estimates of 20,000 dead from a population of approx 2m, >19,000 on the first day of the Somme out of a UK pop of approx 40m the US Civil war was actually relatively low on the carnage front.
I think qualifying PB contributors should be tagged with “I supported Boris”.
Only BartyBobbins is open about it, so far as I can tell.
Oh I’m very happy to tell you I was then, and remain now, incredibly grateful for him forcing Brexit through. I take the long view on anything else he did or didn’t do, as anything can be tweaked by future Governments now. I also think he was useful when Ukraine happened in stopping us hesitating.
Precisely.
The worst thing about politics is how too many people take a "my side right or wrong" attitude and then act like their side is perfect and flawless, and the other side is wretched and has no merit.
No leader is perfect. No leader as Blair claimed to be is "whiter than white". All leaders have a mixed legacy in the end.
That applies to Boris as much if not more than most. He's done some very, very good things to which I'm grateful he was PM for - including resolving the Brexit dilemma that May was stuck on, and I don't think Hunt could have handled, getting Covid vaccines organised ahead of the curve, and perhaps most importantly the full-throated support for Ukraine.
And he's done some very, very bad things to which its right he's gone for. I'm sure every reader can think of something.
A mix of black and white, shades of grey, if you're still allowed to use those colour analogies and its not politically incorrect. Not totally bad, not totally good. Like all PMs in the end.
And considering the alternative was Jeremy Corbyn - I'll never regret having voted for him.
Utter drivel. He was appalling on every measure. Pure poison.
So his support for Ukraine was appalling?
Or are you perhaps exaggerating and doing exactly what I just said.
Milked it for his own glorification. Vomit inducing.
And here you are genuinely unhinged. No wonder you voted for Corbyn.
Supporting Ukraine was not vomit inducing, and was done consistently by not just Boris but Theresa May and David Cameron too long before it was popular - and while both Germany and America were flaking out under their leaders [ie Trump for America, Obama and Biden were both on same page as us]
You are not being rational at all. Everyone has a mixed legacy, nobody who has ever been PM has ever been purely awful.
Johnson, Biden, May, Obama and Cameron all deserve huge praise for how they supported Ukraine. Every single one of them. And it wasn't for glorification or vomit inducing, it was because it was the right thing to do.
My dad's gone. Faded out with mum and my brother and me there with him telling stories of his part glories. He fought a good battle these last few weeks, and you can't ask for any more than that.
My sympathies. That sounds very familiar from my own Dad's passing a couple of years ago, it's the nub of what surrounded by close family means - a bit of reminiscing, perhaps a bit of sibling teasing, a few in jokes. A proper family get together with added meaning and, between the obvious discomforts and any moments of participation the old boy manages, something as important by way of send off as the more formal rituals that follow later. Not every family or departing person gets to do that.
Video of a guardsman after fainting. The band keeps playing and none of the people near him help. This country is fucking weird sick.
I think that would happen in any self-respecting military in the world. Military personnel can’t just stop what they’re doing (having been specifically ordered to do it) whatever the circumstances
Isn't it a military concept to not leave your own people behind?
Military personnel I would hope would if they thought one of their colleagues was hurt go to support them and help them.
I think the reality is in these circumstances they continued precisely because they did not think their colleague was hurt, even if he'd fainted, and that help would come from elsewhere so they didn't need to help. If it was a more serious incident, I don't think they'd leave someone to die without offering support.
We had a very similar comment a couple of weeks ago when a newspaper columnist complained that he fainted at a London J ground ticket barrier and no one did anything (bar, probably making sure qualified London transport staff with a first aid kit and working telephone access to call 999 were told).
It’s not a war zone it’s a a public display with first aid people on site so step round, keep going and let experts deal with the problem.
@christopherhope 8s EXCLUSIVE in the Sunday Telegraph MPs on Commons privileges committee consider sanctions against Boris Johnson's supporters behind 'kangaroo court' attacks on 'partygate' inquiry. Johnson allies say it is a 'McCarthyite purge'.
@christopherhope 7s Members of the committee believe the remarks of some critical MPs amount to contempt of Parliament and want action. Possible sanctions range from an addendum to its partygate report criticising the MPs to a censure motion and divisive vote in the Commons. 2/3
@christopherhope 38s The move would risk more Tory MP resignations, with supporters of Mr Johnson pledging an all-out revolt if Conservative whips fail to block such a scheme. One Government source said: “This is an attempt to purge Johnson supporters from the party. It is McCarthyism.” 3/3
BRING IT ON !!!
We don't often agree but Johnson and his sycophants need marginalising
Johnson knows all about purging people from the party.
@christopherhope 8s EXCLUSIVE in the Sunday Telegraph MPs on Commons privileges committee consider sanctions against Boris Johnson's supporters behind 'kangaroo court' attacks on 'partygate' inquiry. Johnson allies say it is a 'McCarthyite purge'.
@christopherhope 7s Members of the committee believe the remarks of some critical MPs amount to contempt of Parliament and want action. Possible sanctions range from an addendum to its partygate report criticising the MPs to a censure motion and divisive vote in the Commons. 2/3
@christopherhope 38s The move would risk more Tory MP resignations, with supporters of Mr Johnson pledging an all-out revolt if Conservative whips fail to block such a scheme. One Government source said: “This is an attempt to purge Johnson supporters from the party. It is McCarthyism.” 3/3
BRING IT ON !!!
We don't often agree but Johnson and his sycophants need marginalising
Johnson knows all about purging people from the party.
I find the principle of purging elected individuals from Parliament concerning.
If someone's done genuine wrong, then fair enough, but for saying something you disagree with? Something they genuinely believe and you find offensive? That should be protected by Parliamentary Privilege - or at least something akin to it.
Politicians should not be able to purge their critics from Parliament, simply for criticising them. Remove the whip if they're not following party policy is one thing, purging from Parliament is another.
Rumours of a major Ukrainian breakout. Just hope they are true.
Hey @Cicero I've a few relatives going to Tallinn early August do you know of any places they really should go?
How long are they around for?
I think about 4 days and then to a cabin in the woods.
Tallinn only or Tartu , Pärnu or Saaremaa as well?
Ooh I'd have to ask to be sure from my poor memory* they are in Estonia about 8 days. Fly to the capital and pick up a car. Flat in the city for 4 days and then some place in the woods for about as long.
*I do think they were visiting an island near Tallinn for a day too.
Probably either Aegna or Naisaar. Tell them to bring jungle strength anti bug spray- Aegna in particular has both mosquitos and nasty Horse flies. Also make sure their anti tick jabs are up to date, Lots to do in Tallinn, but depends which direction and how far the cabin is as to where else they explore. I can certainly recommend the Korvemaa nature preserve, especially the lakes and the great marsh which is eerie and beautiful and only about 35 mins from Tallinn. Otherwise the Lahemaa National park, about an hour east of Tallinn has interesting manor houses and museums. Headed West, Haapsalu is a pretty little coastal town with spas and swimming and a Kursaal. The University city of Tartu is worth a look too, and the Alatskivi Castle on the Peipsi lake, a replica Balmoral which is close to a string of Old Believer Fishing villages. As for Tallinn itself, the Old Town, Kadriorg Castle, walking along the caost to Pirita and the old Abbey, stopping at the memorial to the dead of Communism and the Museum of Estonian History. In the evening Tellsikivi is the happening area.
Thank you, I'll pass it all on. I think Estonia will be the making of them.
Selby I think could be a Conservative hold, bigger Labour vote in 2019 than so Shropshire North and Mid Bedfordshire and smaller LD vote there so local Labour Party will likely fight it in a proper contest and not hand it to the LDs. Thus splitting the anti Conservative vote
I can’t see the LibDems making an effort in Selby and Ainsty. It’s not their demographic at all - Selby is quite working class and surprisingly run down for a market town with an abbey. I agree it’ll probably be a Conservative hold, but Labour have an outside chance.
Incidentally here’s the origin of the “Ainsty” bit:
And. Importantly. A totally different demographic in the non-Selby bits. Southern part of York including University then. Prosperous commuter villages around Harrogate now.
Are you sure about this? Selby's quite a long way from Harrogate.
Antietam is quiet and sombre and haunting. Not like other battlefields. More like a bad World War 1 battlefield. I guess they were similar
Indeed all the hallmarks of WW1 battles were present in the US civil war, machine guns, artilliary, trenches, the lot.
It’s a weird one, it was a foretaste of mechanical war between relatively equal powers that foreshadowed WW1 and mixed old warfare with industrial warfare but it’s often written up with huge casualties that don’t actually come close proportionally to earlier or later wars.
For example Gettysburg deaths were around 7000 out of a population of approx 31m (Antietam just under 4,000) Compared to Towton with low estimates of 20,000 dead from a population of approx 2m, >19,000 on the first day of the Somme out of a UK pop of approx 40m the US Civil war was actually relatively low on the carnage front.
WW1 was pretty much unique for battlefield carnage (but WW2 vastly worse for civilians and the like)
But the US civil war looms large for a good reason, here in America:
“The number of soldiers who died between 1861 and 1865, generally estimated at 620,000, is approximately equal to the total of American fatalities in the Revolutionary War, the War of 1812, the Mexican War, the Spanish American War, World War I, World War II, and the Korean War, combined.”
Selby I think could be a Conservative hold, bigger Labour vote in 2019 than so Shropshire North and Mid Bedfordshire and smaller LD vote there so local Labour Party will likely fight it in a proper contest and not hand it to the LDs. Thus splitting the anti Conservative vote
I can’t see the LibDems making an effort in Selby and Ainsty. It’s not their demographic at all - Selby is quite working class and surprisingly run down for a market town with an abbey. I agree it’ll probably be a Conservative hold, but Labour have an outside chance.
Incidentally here’s the origin of the “Ainsty” bit:
And. Importantly. A totally different demographic in the non-Selby bits. Southern part of York including University then. Prosperous commuter villages around Harrogate now.
Are you sure about this? Selby's quite a long way from Harrogate.
I think qualifying PB contributors should be tagged with “I supported Boris”.
Only BartyBobbins is open about it, so far as I can tell.
Oh I’m very happy to tell you I was then, and remain now, incredibly grateful for him forcing Brexit through. I take the long view on anything else he did or didn’t do, as anything can be tweaked by future Governments now. I also think he was useful when Ukraine happened in stopping us hesitating.
Precisely.
The worst thing about politics is how too many people take a "my side right or wrong" attitude and then act like their side is perfect and flawless, and the other side is wretched and has no merit.
No leader is perfect. No leader as Blair claimed to be is "whiter than white". All leaders have a mixed legacy in the end.
That applies to Boris as much if not more than most. He's done some very, very good things to which I'm grateful he was PM for - including resolving the Brexit dilemma that May was stuck on, and I don't think Hunt could have handled, getting Covid vaccines organised ahead of the curve, and perhaps most importantly the full-throated support for Ukraine.
And he's done some very, very bad things to which its right he's gone for. I'm sure every reader can think of something.
A mix of black and white, shades of grey, if you're still allowed to use those colour analogies and its not politically incorrect. Not totally bad, not totally good. Like all PMs in the end.
And considering the alternative was Jeremy Corbyn - I'll never regret having voted for him.
Utter drivel. He was appalling on every measure. Pure poison.
So his support for Ukraine was appalling?
Or are you perhaps exaggerating and doing exactly what I just said.
Milked it for his own glorification. Vomit inducing.
Yep whenever he'd misplayed some scheme you could be sure Johnson would be in Kiev the next day.
I think qualifying PB contributors should be tagged with “I supported Boris”.
Only BartyBobbins is open about it, so far as I can tell.
Oh I’m very happy to tell you I was then, and remain now, incredibly grateful for him forcing Brexit through. I take the long view on anything else he did or didn’t do, as anything can be tweaked by future Governments now. I also think he was useful when Ukraine happened in stopping us hesitating.
Precisely.
The worst thing about politics is how too many people take a "my side right or wrong" attitude and then act like their side is perfect and flawless, and the other side is wretched and has no merit.
No leader is perfect. No leader as Blair claimed to be is "whiter than white". All leaders have a mixed legacy in the end.
That applies to Boris as much if not more than most. He's done some very, very good things to which I'm grateful he was PM for - including resolving the Brexit dilemma that May was stuck on, and I don't think Hunt could have handled, getting Covid vaccines organised ahead of the curve, and perhaps most importantly the full-throated support for Ukraine.
And he's done some very, very bad things to which its right he's gone for. I'm sure every reader can think of something.
A mix of black and white, shades of grey, if you're still allowed to use those colour analogies and its not politically incorrect. Not totally bad, not totally good. Like all PMs in the end.
And considering the alternative was Jeremy Corbyn - I'll never regret having voted for him.
Utter drivel. He was appalling on every measure. Pure poison.
So his support for Ukraine was appalling?
Or are you perhaps exaggerating and doing exactly what I just said.
Milked it for his own glorification. Vomit inducing.
And here you are genuinely unhinged. No wonder you voted for Corbyn.
Supporting Ukraine was not vomit inducing, and was done consistently by not just Boris but Theresa May and David Cameron too long before it was popular - and while both Germany and America were flaking out under their leaders [ie Trump for America, Obama and Biden were both on same page as us]
You are not being rational at all. Everyone has a mixed legacy, nobody who has ever been PM has ever been purely awful.
Johnson, Biden, May, Obama and Cameron all deserve huge praise for how they supported Ukraine. Every single one of them. And it wasn't for glorification or vomit inducing, it was because it was the right thing to do.
The tacky milking of it, not the support itself. I support the support. Think we just about all do.
Surprised too as TNT isn't that big of a brand in the UK.
The thing I always associate TNT with is that when I was a kid it was originally sharing a channel on Sky with Cartoon Network. I recall when the switchover happened around bedtime they used to have a graphic of Bugs Bunny [or similar] planting explosives and blowing up the Cartoon Network logo which then became the TNT logo.
Great for City and for Pep. Deserved it. But I reckon with that financial backing Allardyce would have delivered a bit quicker.
Apparently this is being celebrated by tye DJ with proper Greater Manchester miserablism. "This is how it feels" by the Inspiral Carpets, and Joy Division. Feels like the point slightly being missed. The titles sound very celebratory, but the songs really aren't.
I don't know what that nonsense was earlier about nobody rushing over to help that soldier who fainted. It's quite clear that's exactly what did happen here.
His stoicism as he tries to brush it off and carry on playing afterwards regardless is also moving:
Comments
The best leaders like Blair and Cameron do both, inspiring campaigners and speakers on their day but also competent enough to be trusted to run the country as PM
If true - which is a big if - that clearly would be good news.
46% disapprove, while 26% approve – leaving a net approval of -20%.
--
Starmer’s approval also dips this week, as 35% disapprove and 28% approve. He has a net approval of -7%.
This is the lowest approval for the Leader of the Opposition since October 2022.
Frosty The NoMan has written in the Telegraph about how BoZo's career is not over...
The worst thing about politics is how too many people take a "my side right or wrong" attitude and then act like their side is perfect and flawless, and the other side is wretched and has no merit.
No leader is perfect. No leader as Blair claimed to be is "whiter than white". All leaders have a mixed legacy in the end.
That applies to Boris as much if not more than most. He's done some very, very good things to which I'm grateful he was PM for - including resolving the Brexit dilemma that May was stuck on, and I don't think Hunt could have handled, getting Covid vaccines organised ahead of the curve, and perhaps most importantly the full-throated support for Ukraine.
And he's done some very, very bad things to which its right he's gone for. I'm sure every reader can think of something.
A mix of black and white, shades of grey, if you're still allowed to use those colour analogies and its not politically incorrect. Not totally bad, not totally good. Like all PMs in the end.
And considering the alternative was Jeremy Corbyn - I'll never regret having voted for him.
Washington - 0
Adams - 0
Jefferson - 0
Madison - 0
Monroe - 0
…
Kennedy - 0
LBJ - 0
Nixon - 0*
Ford - 0
Carter - 0
Reagan - 0
Bush Sr - 0
Clinton - 0
Dubya - 0
Obama - 0
Trump - 71
https://twitter.com/TristanSnell/status/1667329943997390848
Sincere condolences.
It will be a great comfort that you and your family were with him when he passed
Today I went to visit my mother in hospital.
She’s in a female only ward. I am, as you’ve probably guessed, male.
The lady in the bed opposite my mum is a Muslim lady who wears a full face Niqab and clearly values her privacy (curtains drawn whenever a nurse/doctor/family visit). Up until today, she’s a never said anything, or been part of the ward gossip thingy my mum and the other ladies have got going on. I respectfully ignore her, in the way that a male (anyone?) does in this situation.
Anyway, she clearly overheard my conversations with my mum and, for whatever reason, decided to randomly help me solve my mums problems as they come up. She’s getting involved in the ward gossip, too.
It’s the first time I’ve ever meaningfully interacted with a woman in a full face veil.
Small steps towards integration, perhaps?
MacMillan might have been brought down by two tarts, Johnson was felled by a microscopic virus.
Yes, his support for Zelenskyy and Ukraine in the first days after the Russian invasion was vital and he deserves credit for that and thanks to his 2019 election victory, he cut the Gordian Knot of Brexit but in the end those who enthused for him ended up turning on him.
I welcome your new objectivity - I look forward to some positive comments on Labour and Liberal Democrat policy and a kind word or two for Starmer and Davey.
Remember to look after yourself. You can't look after others if you don't.
All the very, very best.
https://conservativehome.com/2023/06/10/our-list-of-conservative-mps-standing-down-at-the-next-election-timpson-the-latest-to-announce/
1) You're thinking of it solely in terms of Selby. The constituency covers a number of prosperous areas with a combination of agricultural, green, tech and traditional industries at its heart.
2) There is money in the constituency - around Harrogate and Knaresborough, the western side of York, the towns and villages of the southern reaches.
3) Selby is not working class. It's far from run down. I know - I was there on Thursday morning.
4) Huge commuter community - from the constituency it's easy to be in the centres of Leeds or York within 15 minutes, Doncaster and Hull within 30 minutes and Sheffield within 45 minutes.
Touched you shared the moment with it. I shall raise a glass to Rochdale Senior before bedtime tonight.
That's either at 3am or commuting by helicopter!
*I do think they were visiting an island near Tallinn for a day too.
Starmer - Seems to have grasped that housing is one of the biggest issues facing this country, that NIMBYism is a too easy thing to go for, and that having had our levels of population growth we need many more homes in this country and the only places they can realistically go is on greenfield land because there is no alternative.
There you go.
8s
EXCLUSIVE in the Sunday Telegraph
MPs on Commons privileges committee consider sanctions against Boris Johnson's supporters behind 'kangaroo court' attacks on 'partygate' inquiry.
Johnson allies say it is a 'McCarthyite purge'.
@christopherhope
7s
Members of the committee believe the remarks of some critical MPs amount to contempt of Parliament and want action.
Possible sanctions range from an addendum to its partygate report criticising the MPs to a censure motion and divisive vote in the Commons.
2/3
@christopherhope
38s
The move would risk more Tory MP resignations, with supporters of Mr Johnson pledging an all-out revolt if Conservative whips fail to block such a scheme.
One Government source said: “This is an attempt to purge Johnson supporters from the party. It is McCarthyism.” 3/3
BRING IT ON !!!
Or are you perhaps exaggerating and doing exactly what I just said.
He was brought down by men he appointed to the most senior and sensitive roles, who couldn't think except with their genitals.
Keir Starmer said people have had enough of the 'farce' of Tory rule and want a general election now. He also accused Rishi Sunak of losing control as the Conservatives descend into civil war
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/keir-starmer-tells-rishi-sunak-30204258
Three of four diehards have left in a strop.
Everyone else is either breathing a sigh of relief or laughing at them.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65866895
Thank goodness we've moved on from that nowadays and people are free to be who they are, and with who they want to, rather than that being news or something we judge people for.
It is imperfections and impurities that help us evolve and progress. If you're completely pure on everything, then you're an incredibly boring and unthinking individual.
There something about a son losing his father. Also, a daughter losing her mother.
It changes the son. And the daughter.
Forgive my cod psychology.
But it is, imo, an important event for every man and woman. To an extent, it’s an event that defines us.
Sympathies, @RochdalePioneers
I am delighted to see the back of Johnson but a direct attack on free speech like this (if the reports are true) is absolutely unacceptable. The Johnson supporters may be stupid and wrong but they are alowed to be and we absolutely should not be starting down the road of sanctioning people for what they say in this way.
There is a potential here for the committee to lose a lot of the good will and support it has attracted if it pursues such a partisan agenda.
But there were huge security implications at the height of the Cold War about where genitals were being mutually deployed.
Which I don't think would be different nowadays.
None of which was any responsibility of the young females involved.
Military personnel I would hope would if they thought one of their colleagues was hurt go to support them and help them.
I think the reality is in these circumstances they continued precisely because they did not think their colleague was hurt, even if he'd fainted, and that help would come from elsewhere so they didn't need to help. If it was a more serious incident, I don't think they'd leave someone to die without offering support.
As a Pratchett fan I will send a GNU for him tonight. If you don't know what that means rest assured it is the greatest compliment.
For example Gettysburg deaths were around 7000 out of a population of approx 31m (Antietam just under 4,000) Compared to Towton with low estimates of 20,000 dead from a population of approx 2m, >19,000 on the first day of the Somme out of a UK pop of approx 40m the US Civil war was actually relatively low on the carnage front.
Supporting Ukraine was not vomit inducing, and was done consistently by not just Boris but Theresa May and David Cameron too long before it was popular - and while both Germany and America were flaking out under their leaders [ie Trump for America, Obama and Biden were both on same page as us]
You are not being rational at all. Everyone has a mixed legacy, nobody who has ever been PM has ever been purely awful.
Johnson, Biden, May, Obama and Cameron all deserve huge praise for how they supported Ukraine. Every single one of them. And it wasn't for glorification or vomit inducing, it was because it was the right thing to do.
It’s not a war zone it’s a a public display with first aid people on site so step round, keep going and let experts deal with the problem.
If someone's done genuine wrong, then fair enough, but for saying something you disagree with? Something they genuinely believe and you find offensive? That should be protected by Parliamentary Privilege - or at least something akin to it.
Politicians should not be able to purge their critics from Parliament, simply for criticising them. Remove the whip if they're not following party policy is one thing, purging from Parliament is another.
But the US civil war looms large for a good reason, here in America:
“The number of soldiers who died between 1861 and 1865, generally estimated at 620,000, is approximately equal to the total of American fatalities in the Revolutionary War, the War of 1812, the Mexican War, the Spanish American War, World War I, World War II, and the Korean War, combined.”
Constituency can virtually see the '30' signs of both Harrogate and Knaresborough.
Surprised too as TNT isn't that big of a brand in the UK.
The thing I always associate TNT with is that when I was a kid it was originally sharing a channel on Sky with Cartoon Network. I recall when the switchover happened around bedtime they used to have a graphic of Bugs Bunny [or similar] planting explosives and blowing up the Cartoon Network logo which then became the TNT logo.
His stoicism as he tries to brush it off and carry on playing afterwards regardless is also moving:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-65865904