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The public support Boris Johnson – politicalbetting.com

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  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,790

    I ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️ Dave.

    Since yesterday evening David Cameron has been telling friends.

    Who knew my recall law was so powerful, everyone called it feeble at the time.

    Wasn’t it Nick Clegg’s bright idea? Until he realised he could be its first victim and rewrote it much more tightly.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,175
    DougSeal said:

    Farooq said:

    DougSeal said:

    Farooq said:

    DougSeal said:

    Farooq said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/10/uk-weather-thunderstorm-warnings-across-country-as-temperatures-soar

    Video of a guardsman after fainting. The band keeps playing and none of the people near him help. This country is fucking weird sick.

    I think that would happen in any self-respecting military in the world. Military personnel can’t just stop what they’re doing (having been specifically ordered to do it) whatever the circumstances
    Not when you're doing something of vital importance, maybe.

    But they're playing trombones.
    That’s not the way it works. Soldiers can’t judge for yourself themselves if a lawful order is of vital importance and prioritise accordingly. That’s what military discipline is all about. That’s true in all armies, at least the ones that function properly, not just the British one. I’m no soldier but being on parade, which is what they were doing, I understand has a role in promoting that discipline so military types may say it is of vital importance. Saying they’re not helping just because they’re from this specific country is plain wrong.
    Most countries don't put people out in the hot sunshine wearing enormous fur hats though!
    No, but many have parades in equally inappropriate whether and dress. In India the school I worked at had close links with the local military bases and I saw teenage cadet soldiers parade in insane temperatures (hotter than London today) wearing some form of hat with huge feathers on it. That was miserable just watching in a short sleeved shirt in the shade.
    I love the videos of the Indian and Pakistani soldiers marching up the border to glare at each other, every evening.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,246
    DougSeal said:

    Boris Johnson was clearly prepared to put his principles to one side and campaign for Rishi in the red wall, so I am surprised that a way was not found for his honours list to make it through the process. It seems like an unnecessary own goal. I would say Rishi is getting too big for his boots, if that were not a physical impossibility.

    What principles does he have to relocate in the manner suggested?
    His principle that RS was a backstabber.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,868
    edited June 2023
    MikeL said:

    Have the people saying Boris will be making a comeback realised that if his supporters resign as MPs then he won't have their votes in a future leadership election.

    Dorries and Adams would have been certain Johnson votes - he's now lost them!

    Some may say it's only two votes so who cares - but if others resign / don't stand at next GE then it would be significant in any future leadership election. Truss only just edged Mordaunt in the final MPs ballot - every vote counts.

    This is yet another reason, of course, why Boris will not become leader again.

    As you say, just a few votes and we may have had PM Mordaunt.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,266

    Boris Johnson was clearly prepared to put his principles to one side and campaign for Rishi in the red wall, so I am surprised that a way was not found for his honours list to make it through the process. It seems like an unnecessary own goal. I would say Rishi is getting too big for his boots, if that were not a physical impossibility.

    You believe Johnson's has "principles"?

    In that case, he has an invisible garden bridge to sell you.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,611
    Sean_F said:

    DougSeal said:

    Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak held secret 'peace talks' meeting | Tim Shipman

    https://youtu.be/8NFo3HctQ-o

    It is blindingly obvious that Boris Johnson should never have been allowed to stand to be the leader of the Tory Party. It is a disgrace that Tory MPs voted for him in the first place.

    It’s quite funny though. Peace talks ending in a civil war. Reminds me of this -

    https://youtu.be/r3BO6GP9NMY
    It’s a civil war where one side has run away from the battlefield.

    I bet Sunak can’t believe his luck.
    More one of those Japanese battles where one side asserted moral superiority by committing suicide en masse.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,897
    @MattChorley
    Oh this is excellent from @ShippersUnbound’s read:

    It’s all a plot to stop Brexit orchestrated by… Dominic Cummings 🤪


  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,790

    Sadly I guessed Falling Water as soon as I saw the first photo but I am some hours too late.

    I’m not surprised it is Trump country.
    As far as I can tell, Leon is actually in Northern Appalachia.

    Although I’d previously thought it purely southern hillbilly high country, Appalachia actually continues north and really only peters out in New York State with the Catskills.

    There’s a kind of isobar in the Catskills where the bitter people with guns meet the hipster Brooklyn refugees, leftover Bob Dylan wannabes, abandoned Jewish holiday camps, and yoghurt-knitting lesbians.

    Northern Appalachia is surely Scotland? Then Ireland, then the mountains of Morocco. Once upon a time all joined together with Appalachia.
  • northern_monkeynorthern_monkey Posts: 1,639

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.

    Those pointing out Labour used to hold Selby, beware.
    They did, between 1997 and 2010. Marginally.
    But it wasn't this Selby.
    That Selby was Selby and a substantial bit of York. Including the University.
    This Selby and Ainsty is Selby and a collection of villages near Harrogate.
    Not the same thing at all.
    Bet accordingly.

    Yeah, not a million miles from me, or the glittering metropolis of that Leeds, but very rural, farm-y, lots of big detached houses with mahoosive gardens and mahoosive Beamers and Rangies on the mahoosive drives. Be surprised if it goes anything but Tory.
    It's not quite as you depict. There have been more than enough changes in demographics of the constituency to move it from the Conservatives to... any of the three parties with a bit of effort. It'sone of those areas that acts as a feeder to lots of larger economically important centres, eg. Leeds.

    A lot of those living in places like Sherburn in Elmet or Tadcaster commute either to Leeds or to York. They're college and university educated and gravitate towards the Liberals more than Labour. There are still some areas which are dyed in the wool Tory - think around Tockwith, Kirk Hammerton or the parts skirting Harrogate and Knaresborough. It's the areas around Eggborough, Drax, Chapel Haddesley, North Duffield which could be interesting. Some of these areas commute to other areas (Doncaster, Hull, Sheffield).

    There are plenty of local issues at play that have never really been addressed properly: flooding around Selby can be an issue, especially in places to the north such as Cawood or to the south (such as closer to Snaith). The proposal for a new village to be built off the A19 close to Escrick and Stillingfleet has not been received well: the area is a massive flood plain and putting extra pressure on an already overworked A19 from Selby to York is only asking for trouble.

    Would I bet against the Conservatives? No. Then again, this is one I wouldn't bet on. There are far too many issues and variables that could influence the outcome.
    Yes you’re right. I was making a sweeping generalisation. I have family in Sherburn, it’s precisely as you describe. Lots of new housing full of well paid, younger, professional types with young families and two nice SUVs on the drive.

    But whether it’s enough to get the Cons out I don’t know. They’ll be angry at their mortgages and food and everything else rising, they’ll have grown up enjoying freedom of movement, they’ll be socially liberal. Starmer won’t scare them. Will they vote tactically?

    It’s going to be interesting.
    There are some constituencies I’ll bet on. No problem. Selby and Ainsty… I’m avoiding. Everything says that the Cons should win but I’m not so sure. Everything says Labour or the Lib Dem’s should take it, but…

    I grew up in Sherburn. I know the constituency as it is today (esp. the villages like Hillam, etc) and as it was before the last rounds of mergers. It has always been a commuter constituency - my parents worked in York, Leeds and Sheffield. To be blunt, it’s a bugger of a constituency to pin down.

    So many of the people I was at school with - in the 1980s and 1990s - went to uni, and thought they experienced the strikes and industrial action and voting Labour was entrenched with some families, they vote Tory. That being said, they’ve become socially liberal and enjoyed the benefits of Blair’s Labour government. Now they’re being hammered by interest rates, inflation and mortgage rates, the like of which haven’t been seen since their parents were clobbered in the 1980s.

    This doesn’t apply just in Sherburn. It’s the same throughout the constituency, in places like Knottingley or Monk Fryston, Tockwith or Tadcaster. Genuinely can’t call this one. The commuter element and the younger demographic make this a tough one.
    Yeah, I’m in Knottingley.

    Think i’m a similar age to you, I’m 45. Know what you mean about our cohort growing up in Labour households, make a few quid and start voting Tory. Never got it myself, always seemed like a betrayal, of the communities they grew up in, that solidarity, for want of a better word, that still lingers on. But that’s just me.

    Many I know never went to uni. Got good jobs in industry or whatever, even things like plastering, started making decent money and went Tory. And Brexit.

    Many, not all but a lot, of people I know who went to uni left and never came back. I went and did come back.

    I wouldn’t like to say how they’d vote now.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,790

    Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak held secret 'peace talks' meeting | Tim Shipman

    https://youtu.be/8NFo3HctQ-o

    It is blindingly obvious that Boris Johnson should never have been allowed to stand to be the leader of the Tory Party. It is a disgrace that Tory MPs voted for him in the first place.

    Essentially the conclusion Guto Harri comes to in his Global podcast series.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,567
    Scott_xP said:

    @MattChorley
    Oh this is excellent from @ShippersUnbound’s read:

    It’s all a plot to stop Brexit orchestrated by… Dominic Cummings 🤪


    Complete bollocks is quite right.
    Though perhaps not in the manner he intended.

    He’s really not very bright, is he ?
    Shorn of his ability to charm, there’s not much left.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,220
    I thought the privileges committee hadn’t taken into account the recent info passed to the cabinet office but Beth Rigby is suggesting this was damning . And that the committee has made a unanimous decision .
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,790
    RobD said:

    MikeL said:

    Have the people saying Boris will be making a comeback realised that if his supporters resign as MPs then he won't have their votes in a future leadership election.

    Dorries and Adams would have been certain Johnson votes - he's now lost them!

    Some may say it's only two votes so who cares - but if others resign / don't stand at next GE then it would be significant in any future leadership election. Truss only just edged Mordaunt in the final MPs ballot - every vote counts.

    This is yet another reason, of course, why Boris will not become leader again.

    As you say, just a few votes and we may have had PM Mordaunt.
    “sit down here and look at what you would have won….”
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    Leon said:

    PICTURE QUIZ

    where am I? There are enough clues in here to guess






    Came late to this and after the quiz had been answered, but my first guess on seeing this photo was Falling Water. This was only on the juxtaposition of very lush forest and poorly finished concrete.

    Falling Water is a wonderful piece of architecture but a shoddilly constructed building.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,897
    Zahawi denies he is resigning.

    Which is a pity
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,567
    Furious Tories turn against Boris Johnson after ‘bias’ outburst
    MPs tell Rishi Sunak that the former PM must not be allowed to stand again, while Johnson ally Nigel Adams quits and triggers third byelection
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jun/10/furious-tories-boris-johnson-bias-outburst-rishi-sunak-nigel-adams-byelection
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,780
    edited June 2023
    If all these conspiracy rumours between Sunak and Johnson are to be believed Sunak has played a blinder

    Yes, in the next few months it will be choppy but once the rumoured unanimous report from the privilidges committee drops next week the media scrum will be coriscating about Johnson and it will be an opportunity for Sunak to move forward without the malign Johnson in the HOC

    Even if a few more Johnson sycophants resign I am very pleased and good riddance to them
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,246
    edited June 2023

    Boris Johnson was clearly prepared to put his principles to one side and campaign for Rishi in the red wall, so I am surprised that a way was not found for his honours list to make it through the process. It seems like an unnecessary own goal. I would say Rishi is getting too big for his boots, if that were not a physical impossibility.

    So you think that even Boris-loving voters, are gonna be outraged because Mad Nad, etc. did NOT get their promised peerages? Really?

    For every vote Sunak looses on THAT basis, likely to pick up two or more for refusing BoJo's dishounours list.

    Won't save him or the Tories at next general election. But at least sign that he & they have stopped digging their hole deeper.
    No, I don't think voters will care a jot, but I do think Boris being 'in the tent pissing out' is of value to the Sunak political project inasmuch as one believes Sunak actually wants to win an election (as opposed to prepare the way for Starmer and piss off to your neck of the woods).

    The Sunak Government now looks in the most pisspoor shape it has been in. This is a Tory MP quote in the Express:

    One senior Conservative MP, who received a call, said: "Colleagues are saying 'bring it on'. It is a kangaroo court and nobody will stop us speaking out.

    "This proves to many of us that Downing Street was in collusion with the Privileges Committee to get Boris.

    "Many colleagues have had enough of this rabble running the party and their pathetic threats won't scare anyone."
    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1779476/boris-johnson-warning-sunak-kangaroo-court

    Funny how Sunak was given the job through constant bitchy briefings of 'senior MPs' against his predecessors and now it's happening to his Government - oh well.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,595
    DougSeal said:

    It’s my wedding anniversary today. 17 years, furniture, not the easiest.

    Sofa so good?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,246

    DougSeal said:

    It’s my wedding anniversary today. 17 years, furniture, not the easiest.

    Sofa so good?
    That's armoir-e.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,567

    Boris Johnson was clearly prepared to put his principles to one side and campaign for Rishi in the red wall, so I am surprised that a way was not found for his honours list to make it through the process. It seems like an unnecessary own goal. I would say Rishi is getting too big for his boots, if that were not a physical impossibility.

    So you think that even Boris-loving voters, are gonna be outraged because Mad Nad, etc. did NOT get their promised peerages? Really?

    For every vote Sunak looses on THAT basis, likely to pick up two or more for refusing BoJo's dishounours list.

    Won't save him or the Tories at next general election. But at least sign that he & they have stopped digging their hole deeper.
    No, I don't think voters will care a jot, but I do think Boris being 'in the tent pissing out' is of value to the Sunak political project inasmuch as one believes Sunak actually wants to win an election (as opposed to prepare the way for Starmer and piss off to your neck of the woods).

    The Sunak Government now looks in the most pisspoor shape it has been in. This is a Tory MP quote in the Express:

    One senior Conservative MP, who received a call, said: "Colleagues are saying 'bring it on'. It is a kangaroo court and nobody will stop us speaking out.

    "This proves to many of us that Downing Street was in collusion with the Privileges Committee to get Boris.

    "Many colleagues have had enough of this rabble running the party and their pathetic threats won't scare anyone."
    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1779476/boris-johnson-warning-sunak-kangaroo-court

    Funny how Sunak was given the job through constant bitchy briefings of 'senior MPs' against his predecessors and now it's happening to his Government - oh well.
    How may are in this rebellious Johnson hardcore ?
    One MP, quoted in the Express, is possibly a fair percentage of the total.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    Scott_xP said:

    @MattChorley
    Oh this is excellent from @ShippersUnbound’s read:

    It’s all a plot to stop Brexit orchestrated by… Dominic Cummings 🤪


    We’ve been Brexed brutally. It couldn’t have been much harder. And it is final.

    Is he really going to stand on a ‘save Brexit’ platform?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Boris Johnson was clearly prepared to put his principles to one side and campaign for Rishi in the red wall, so I am surprised that a way was not found for his honours list to make it through the process. It seems like an unnecessary own goal. I would say Rishi is getting too big for his boots, if that were not a physical impossibility.

    So you think that even Boris-loving voters, are gonna be outraged because Mad Nad, etc. did NOT get their promised peerages? Really?

    For every vote Sunak looses on THAT basis, likely to pick up two or more for refusing BoJo's dishounours list.

    Won't save him or the Tories at next general election. But at least sign that he & they have stopped digging their hole deeper.
    No, I don't think voters will care a jot, but I do think Boris being 'in the tent pissing out' is of value to the Sunak political project inasmuch as one believes Sunak actually wants to win an election (as opposed to prepare the way for Starmer and piss off to your neck of the woods).

    The Sunak Government now looks in the most pisspoor shape it has been in. This is a Tory MP quote in the Express:

    One senior Conservative MP, who received a call, said: "Colleagues are saying 'bring it on'. It is a kangaroo court and nobody will stop us speaking out.

    "This proves to many of us that Downing Street was in collusion with the Privileges Committee to get Boris.

    "Many colleagues have had enough of this rabble running the party and their pathetic threats won't scare anyone."
    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1779476/boris-johnson-warning-sunak-kangaroo-court

    Funny how Sunak was given the job through constant bitchy briefings of 'senior MPs' against his predecessors and now it's happening to his Government - oh well.
    Thanks for the quotes. Which to my fool mind, demonstrate to me that my instincts are correct.

    The more the likes of them moan, squirm and wail against cruel fate, the better - not worse - it is for Sunak.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,175

    I have placed political bets before the narrative settles and odds tighten. Uxbridge is a near certain win for Sunak in my opinion, because of the number of people of Indian heritage who can vote in Uxbridge.

    Mid staffs I see as toss up, but I have placed the bet on Lib Dem’s, because their by election machine not let me down in the past, and Boris Tories actually want to give Rishi a bloody nose.

    One hundred times:

    Mid BEDS
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,175
    Scott_xP said:

    @MattChorley
    Oh this is excellent from @ShippersUnbound’s read:

    It’s all a plot to stop Brexit orchestrated by… Dominic Cummings 🤪


    Ridiculous notion.

    As if Cummings would ever do something intelligent and sensible, while not showing everyone what he was doing and finding six extraordinary ways to cock it all up.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,736

    Boris Johnson was clearly prepared to put his principles to one side and campaign for Rishi in the red wall, so I am surprised that a way was not found for his honours list to make it through the process. It seems like an unnecessary own goal. I would say Rishi is getting too big for his boots, if that were not a physical impossibility.

    So you think that even Boris-loving voters, are gonna be outraged because Mad Nad, etc. did NOT get their promised peerages? Really?

    For every vote Sunak looses on THAT basis, likely to pick up two or more for refusing BoJo's dishounours list.

    Won't save him or the Tories at next general election. But at least sign that he & they have stopped digging their hole deeper.
    No, I don't think voters will care a jot, but I do think Boris being 'in the tent pissing out' is of value to the Sunak political project inasmuch as one believes Sunak actually wants to win an election (as opposed to prepare the way for Starmer and piss off to your neck of the woods).

    The Sunak Government now looks in the most pisspoor shape it has been in. This is a Tory MP quote in the Express:

    One senior Conservative MP, who received a call, said: "Colleagues are saying 'bring it on'. It is a kangaroo court and nobody will stop us speaking out.

    "This proves to many of us that Downing Street was in collusion with the Privileges Committee to get Boris.

    "Many colleagues have had enough of this rabble running the party and their pathetic threats won't scare anyone."
    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1779476/boris-johnson-warning-sunak-kangaroo-court

    Funny how Sunak was given the job through constant bitchy briefings of 'senior MPs' against his predecessors and now it's happening to his Government - oh well.
    This lot makes the Tory 'bastards' of the 1990s look sane and intelligent by comparison.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,246
    Nigelb said:

    Boris Johnson was clearly prepared to put his principles to one side and campaign for Rishi in the red wall, so I am surprised that a way was not found for his honours list to make it through the process. It seems like an unnecessary own goal. I would say Rishi is getting too big for his boots, if that were not a physical impossibility.

    So you think that even Boris-loving voters, are gonna be outraged because Mad Nad, etc. did NOT get their promised peerages? Really?

    For every vote Sunak looses on THAT basis, likely to pick up two or more for refusing BoJo's dishounours list.

    Won't save him or the Tories at next general election. But at least sign that he & they have stopped digging their hole deeper.
    No, I don't think voters will care a jot, but I do think Boris being 'in the tent pissing out' is of value to the Sunak political project inasmuch as one believes Sunak actually wants to win an election (as opposed to prepare the way for Starmer and piss off to your neck of the woods).

    The Sunak Government now looks in the most pisspoor shape it has been in. This is a Tory MP quote in the Express:

    One senior Conservative MP, who received a call, said: "Colleagues are saying 'bring it on'. It is a kangaroo court and nobody will stop us speaking out.

    "This proves to many of us that Downing Street was in collusion with the Privileges Committee to get Boris.

    "Many colleagues have had enough of this rabble running the party and their pathetic threats won't scare anyone."
    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1779476/boris-johnson-warning-sunak-kangaroo-court

    Funny how Sunak was given the job through constant bitchy briefings of 'senior MPs' against his predecessors and now it's happening to his Government - oh well.
    How may are in this rebellious Johnson hardcore ?
    One MP, quoted in the Express, is possibly a fair percentage of the total.
    I don't think it really matters. All of the vile 'Senior MP/former Minister' briefings against Truss could have come from the same vituperative sack of bile - savage briefings are still harmful, and Sunak's Government has now entered the stepping on garden rakes stage where nothing it does is going to be well-received.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,314
    Boris has clearly been brought down by The Blob.

    This comprises the entire Civil Service, the tofu-eating wokerati, Rishi Sunak, Harriet Harman, Remainers, the Guardian, leftie lawyers, Keir Starmer, Leavers who don't really mean it, the EU, Dom Cummings and... Tom, Dick and Harry.
    But at least he has Nads and Nigel on his side.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,736

    Nigelb said:

    Boris Johnson was clearly prepared to put his principles to one side and campaign for Rishi in the red wall, so I am surprised that a way was not found for his honours list to make it through the process. It seems like an unnecessary own goal. I would say Rishi is getting too big for his boots, if that were not a physical impossibility.

    So you think that even Boris-loving voters, are gonna be outraged because Mad Nad, etc. did NOT get their promised peerages? Really?

    For every vote Sunak looses on THAT basis, likely to pick up two or more for refusing BoJo's dishounours list.

    Won't save him or the Tories at next general election. But at least sign that he & they have stopped digging their hole deeper.
    No, I don't think voters will care a jot, but I do think Boris being 'in the tent pissing out' is of value to the Sunak political project inasmuch as one believes Sunak actually wants to win an election (as opposed to prepare the way for Starmer and piss off to your neck of the woods).

    The Sunak Government now looks in the most pisspoor shape it has been in. This is a Tory MP quote in the Express:

    One senior Conservative MP, who received a call, said: "Colleagues are saying 'bring it on'. It is a kangaroo court and nobody will stop us speaking out.

    "This proves to many of us that Downing Street was in collusion with the Privileges Committee to get Boris.

    "Many colleagues have had enough of this rabble running the party and their pathetic threats won't scare anyone."
    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1779476/boris-johnson-warning-sunak-kangaroo-court

    Funny how Sunak was given the job through constant bitchy briefings of 'senior MPs' against his predecessors and now it's happening to his Government - oh well.
    How may are in this rebellious Johnson hardcore ?
    One MP, quoted in the Express, is possibly a fair percentage of the total.
    I don't think it really matters. All of the vile 'Senior MP/former Minister' briefings against Truss could have come from the same vituperative sack of bile - savage briefings are still harmful, and Sunak's Government has now entered the stepping on garden rakes stage where nothing it does is going to be well-received.
    To the crazy, all things are crazy.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,723
    Interesting USA Supreme Court Decision *against* race-based gerrymandering.

    https://www.npr.org/2023/06/08/1181002182/supreme-court-voting-rights
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,780
    I believe Johnson has run away to Africa

    Also experiencing quite a thunder storm and I have a delighted good lady as the garden is getting a drenching
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,342
    This week's Opinium poll for @ObserverUK
    .

    Labour lead takes a stumble to 12 points.
    Con: 29% (+1)
    Lab: 41% (-2)
    Lib Dem: 11% (+1)
    SNP: 3% (n/c)
    Plaid Cymru: 1% (n/c)
    Green: 7% (n/c)
    Reform UK: 6% (n/c)
    Other: 2% (-1)

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1667607597283782657
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,352
    Inter have the most iconic kit.
    No idea why no English team has ever copied it.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,607

    This week's Opinium poll for @ObserverUK
    .

    Labour lead takes a stumble to 12 points.
    Con: 29% (+1)
    Lab: 41% (-2)
    Lib Dem: 11% (+1)
    SNP: 3% (n/c)
    Plaid Cymru: 1% (n/c)
    Green: 7% (n/c)
    Reform UK: 6% (n/c)
    Other: 2% (-1)

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1667607597283782657

    Broken, sleazy Tories on the RISE? WTF???
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,342
    Sunak’s net approval drops to the lowest it’s been during his premiership.

    46% disapprove, while 26% approve – leaving a net approval of -20%.


    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1667607603621265409
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,723
    FF43 said:

    Leon said:

    PICTURE QUIZ

    where am I? There are enough clues in here to guess



    Came late to this and after the quiz had been answered, but my first guess on seeing this photo was Falling Water. This was only on the juxtaposition of very lush forest and poorly finished concrete.

    Falling Water is a wonderful piece of architecture but a shoddilly constructed building.
    Another nugget:

    The contractors inserted a load of extra reinforcing steel into the cantilevered terraces to make them stay up, without telling FLW.

    It was discovered when remedial work was done later.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,492
    Ghedebrav said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @MattChorley
    Oh this is excellent from @ShippersUnbound’s read:

    It’s all a plot to stop Brexit orchestrated by… Dominic Cummings 🤪


    We’ve been Brexed brutally. It couldn’t have been much harder. And it is final.

    Is he really going to stand on a ‘save Brexit’ platform?
    A bit like Farage with his "Brexit has Failed".

    All part of the "stab in the back" myth that Johnson wants to nurture in his wilderness years.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,897
    Foxy said:

    A bit like Farage with his "Brexit has Failed".

    Brexit is a failure, but that is by design...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,492

    This week's Opinium poll for @ObserverUK
    .

    Labour lead takes a stumble to 12 points.
    Con: 29% (+1)
    Lab: 41% (-2)
    Lib Dem: 11% (+1)
    SNP: 3% (n/c)
    Plaid Cymru: 1% (n/c)
    Green: 7% (n/c)
    Reform UK: 6% (n/c)
    Other: 2% (-1)

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1667607597283782657

    Broken, sleazy Tories on the RISE? WTF???
    Fieldwork done 7-9 June, so before the latest fiasco.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,246
    edited June 2023

    Boris Johnson was clearly prepared to put his principles to one side and campaign for Rishi in the red wall, so I am surprised that a way was not found for his honours list to make it through the process. It seems like an unnecessary own goal. I would say Rishi is getting too big for his boots, if that were not a physical impossibility.

    So you think that even Boris-loving voters, are gonna be outraged because Mad Nad, etc. did NOT get their promised peerages? Really?

    For every vote Sunak looses on THAT basis, likely to pick up two or more for refusing BoJo's dishounours list.

    Won't save him or the Tories at next general election. But at least sign that he & they have stopped digging their hole deeper.
    No, I don't think voters will care a jot, but I do think Boris being 'in the tent pissing out' is of value to the Sunak political project inasmuch as one believes Sunak actually wants to win an election (as opposed to prepare the way for Starmer and piss off to your neck of the woods).

    The Sunak Government now looks in the most pisspoor shape it has been in. This is a Tory MP quote in the Express:

    One senior Conservative MP, who received a call, said: "Colleagues are saying 'bring it on'. It is a kangaroo court and nobody will stop us speaking out.

    "This proves to many of us that Downing Street was in collusion with the Privileges Committee to get Boris.

    "Many colleagues have had enough of this rabble running the party and their pathetic threats won't scare anyone."
    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1779476/boris-johnson-warning-sunak-kangaroo-court

    Funny how Sunak was given the job through constant bitchy briefings of 'senior MPs' against his predecessors and now it's happening to his Government - oh well.
    Thanks for the quotes. Which to my fool mind, demonstrate to me that my instincts are correct.

    The more the likes of them moan, squirm and wail against cruel fate, the better - not worse - it is for Sunak.
    Well, we do see big choruses on PB agreeing with your verdict - the problem is that none of those who approve so much of Sunak sticking it to the Boris-brigade would ever consider voting Tory. The same is true of the UK as a whole. Sunak stacks up approval in Tory opponents and is a complete turn off as far as an actual election-winning coalition is concerned.

    He's also (incidentally) a completely shit Prime Minister.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,492
    Scott_xP said:

    Foxy said:

    A bit like Farage with his "Brexit has Failed".

    Brexit is a failure, but that is by design...
    No, I think they were daft enough and psychologically invested enough to have actually believed in it.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,448
    I would like Inter to win. But it's not looking good.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,607

    I believe Johnson has run away to Africa

    Also experiencing quite a thunder storm and I have a delighted good lady as the garden is getting a drenching

    We had a yellow warning, but not a single cloud, let alone thunder clouds, in the east London area.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,420
    dixiedean said:

    Inter have the most iconic kit.
    No idea why no English team has ever copied it.

    No way, the Roma kit is special - loved they had “SPQR” in the sponsor slot in the match recently. Also Milan’s kit is far more iconic to those who grew up watching Football Italia on C4 back in the day. Paulo Maldini, cashmere jumpers for elegant goalposts and all that.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,436
    Fiorentina have the best kit
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,742
    Westie said:

    Westie said:

    Omnium said:

    Farooq said:

    Yokes said:

    kinabalu said:

    IanB2 said:

    A lovely moment toward the end of Friday’s Any Questions when the audience erupts in wild cheers as the news that the clown has resigned from parliament came through….

    Plus Donald Trump sinks further into the mire. Not the worst political day, was it?
    Being indicted is - so far - BOOSTING polling for Sage of Mar-a-Lardo aka former Security-Risk-in-Chief.
    Yeah but with who?
    With likely Republican primary voters.
    Timothy Snyder was on R4 this morning saying Trump was getting a boost with those already likely to vote for him but the independents/non-aligned were still turned off. I hope he’s right.
    I really fail to see how you could be neutral or hostile to Trump and then, looking at the last few days, suddenly think "actually, yeah, I like the cut of this guy's jib"
    Trump's not all wrong. He's perhaps the most astute and brave observer of our age. An idiot though.

    Quite how he can be the fool that he is and yet observe wisely in some things escapes me. The most likely confusion is that I have somehow misjudged him. Perhaps not a Chump. Ok, so moving on....
    Trump's not a fool. Nor is he all wrong. What he is, is insane. That amount of "positive thinking" (see Norman Vincent Peale) can drive a person insane and there's a literature on it. In his case that's not the whole of the causation, though.
    Nor is he the most astute and brave observer of our age.
    I don't know how closely you've looked at him. If you haven't done so already, you might read up on how he rates "Memories, Dreams, Reflections" by Carl Gustav Jung, not omitting to consider the God-sent turd that Jung writes about in it near the beginning. His engaging in name-calling is (in his mind) Jung-inspired.
    Dunno about judging or misjudging, but there's a lot out there about this guy and how he thinks. I studied him in depth in 2016.
    I bet on Trump to win in 2016 (more exactly, on Clinton to lose, because if Trump wasn't going to win I thought he'd drop out) and then on him to lose in 2020. Haven't formed a view yet on 2024. I'm sure he's pleased that Biden has said he'll stand for re-election.
    When you offer the electorate the same choice, they usually give the same answer. Johnson vs. Livingstone. Biden vs. Trump?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,897
    @michaelsavage

    NEW: A detail from the honours list saga worth noting.

    I’m told a relatively recent draft included a damehood for... Boris’s landlady Carole Bamford.

    He stayed in her property for free after leaving No10.

    She wasn’t on the final list. Johnson spox says can’t comment on honours
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,720

    Boris Johnson was clearly prepared to put his principles to one side and campaign for Rishi in the red wall, so I am surprised that a way was not found for his honours list to make it through the process. It seems like an unnecessary own goal. I would say Rishi is getting too big for his boots, if that were not a physical impossibility.

    Boris, principles lol. Are you having a laugh?
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,642
    Cicero said:

    Rumours of a major Ukrainian breakout. Just hope they are true.

    Hey @Cicero I've a few relatives going to Tallinn early August do you know of any places they really should go?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,790

    Boris Johnson was clearly prepared to put his principles to one side and campaign for Rishi in the red wall, so I am surprised that a way was not found for his honours list to make it through the process. It seems like an unnecessary own goal. I would say Rishi is getting too big for his boots, if that were not a physical impossibility.

    So you think that even Boris-loving voters, are gonna be outraged because Mad Nad, etc. did NOT get their promised peerages? Really?

    For every vote Sunak looses on THAT basis, likely to pick up two or more for refusing BoJo's dishounours list.

    Won't save him or the Tories at next general election. But at least sign that he & they have stopped digging their hole deeper.
    No, I don't think voters will care a jot, but I do think Boris being 'in the tent pissing out' is of value to the Sunak political project inasmuch as one believes Sunak actually wants to win an election (as opposed to prepare the way for Starmer and piss off to your neck of the woods).

    The Sunak Government now looks in the most pisspoor shape it has been in. This is a Tory MP quote in the Express:

    One senior Conservative MP, who received a call, said: "Colleagues are saying 'bring it on'. It is a kangaroo court and nobody will stop us speaking out.

    "This proves to many of us that Downing Street was in collusion with the Privileges Committee to get Boris.

    "Many colleagues have had enough of this rabble running the party and their pathetic threats won't scare anyone."
    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1779476/boris-johnson-warning-sunak-kangaroo-court

    Funny how Sunak was given the job through constant bitchy briefings of 'senior MPs' against his predecessors and now it's happening to his Government - oh well.
    Thanks for the quotes. Which to my fool mind, demonstrate to me that my instincts are correct.

    The more the likes of them moan, squirm and wail against cruel fate, the better - not worse - it is for Sunak.
    Well, we do see big choruses on PB agreeing with your verdict - the problem is that none of those who approve so much of Sunak sticking it to the Boris-brigade would ever consider voting Tory. The same is true of the UK as a whole. Sunak stacks up approval in Tory opponents and is a complete turn off as far as an actual election-winning coalition is concerned.

    He's also (incidentally) a completely shit Prime Minister.
    But he too is a lucky guy in following the two most shit PMs in British history!
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited June 2023
    Come on Man City!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,611

    Boris has clearly been brought down by The Blob.

    This comprises the entire Civil Service, the tofu-eating wokerati, Rishi Sunak, Harriet Harman, Remainers, the Guardian, leftie lawyers, Keir Starmer, Leavers who don't really mean it, the EU, Dom Cummings and... Tom, Dick and Harry.
    But at least he has Nads and Nigel on his side.

    “tofu-eating wokerati”

    Hmmm

    “Vegan venison eating wokerati” surely?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,742

    Scott_xP said:

    @TimesRadio
    "'If you give me my honours list, nod it through, I will come campaign for you in the Red Wall seats.'"

    Tim Shipman explains how 'Peace talks' between Rishi Sunak and Boris Johnson descended into chaos, and led to the former PM's dramatic resignation.

    https://twitter.com/TimesRadio/status/1667590648759820291

    Cock-up rather than conspiracy. It's like the start of the First World War.
    Interesting reports, but I’m not quite clear from those clips how the two stories — Johnson/Sunak row over honours, and Partygate — fit together?

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Westie said:

    Westie said:

    Omnium said:

    Farooq said:

    Yokes said:

    kinabalu said:

    IanB2 said:

    A lovely moment toward the end of Friday’s Any Questions when the audience erupts in wild cheers as the news that the clown has resigned from parliament came through….

    Plus Donald Trump sinks further into the mire. Not the worst political day, was it?
    Being indicted is - so far - BOOSTING polling for Sage of Mar-a-Lardo aka former Security-Risk-in-Chief.
    Yeah but with who?
    With likely Republican primary voters.
    Timothy Snyder was on R4 this morning saying Trump was getting a boost with those already likely to vote for him but the independents/non-aligned were still turned off. I hope he’s right.
    I really fail to see how you could be neutral or hostile to Trump and then, looking at the last few days, suddenly think "actually, yeah, I like the cut of this guy's jib"
    Trump's not all wrong. He's perhaps the most astute and brave observer of our age. An idiot though.

    Quite how he can be the fool that he is and yet observe wisely in some things escapes me. The most likely confusion is that I have somehow misjudged him. Perhaps not a Chump. Ok, so moving on....
    Trump's not a fool. Nor is he all wrong. What he is, is insane. That amount of "positive thinking" (see Norman Vincent Peale) can drive a person insane and there's a literature on it. In his case that's not the whole of the causation, though.
    Nor is he the most astute and brave observer of our age.
    I don't know how closely you've looked at him. If you haven't done so already, you might read up on how he rates "Memories, Dreams, Reflections" by Carl Gustav Jung, not omitting to consider the God-sent turd that Jung writes about in it near the beginning. His engaging in name-calling is (in his mind) Jung-inspired.
    Dunno about judging or misjudging, but there's a lot out there about this guy and how he thinks. I studied him in depth in 2016.
    I bet on Trump to win in 2016 (more exactly, on Clinton to lose, because if Trump wasn't going to win I thought he'd drop out) and then on him to lose in 2020. Haven't formed a view yet on 2024. I'm sure he's pleased that Biden has said he'll stand for re-election.
    When you offer the electorate the same choice, they usually give the same answer. Johnson vs. Livingstone. Biden vs. Trump?
    US Presidential repeat matchups

    1952 and 1956 - Eisenhower (R) versus Stevenson (D) = Ike won both times

    1896 and 1900 - McKinley (R) versus Bryan (D) = McK won both times

    1888 and 1892 - Benjamin Harrison (R) versus Grover Cleveland (D) = Harrison won '88, Cleveland won '92

    1836 and 1840 - Martin Van Buren (D) versus William H. Harrison (W) = VB won '36, WHH won '40

    1824 and 1828 - John Quincy Adams (NR) versus Andrew Jackson (D) = JQA won '24, Jackson won '28

    1796 and 1800 - John Adams (F) versus Thomas Jefferson (DR) = Adams won '96, Jefferson won '00

    NOTE that last split decisions were 1896 and 1900 . . . exactly one century after the FIRST split decisions.
  • dixiedean said:

    FPT.

    Those pointing out Labour used to hold Selby, beware.
    They did, between 1997 and 2010. Marginally.
    But it wasn't this Selby.
    That Selby was Selby and a substantial bit of York. Including the University.
    This Selby and Ainsty is Selby and a collection of villages near Harrogate.
    Not the same thing at all.
    Bet accordingly.

    Yeah, not a million miles from me, or the glittering metropolis of that Leeds, but very rural, farm-y, lots of big detached houses with mahoosive gardens and mahoosive Beamers and Rangies on the mahoosive drives. Be surprised if it goes anything but Tory.
    It's not quite as you depict. There have been more than enough changes in demographics of the constituency to move it from the Conservatives to... any of the three parties with a bit of effort. It'sone of those areas that acts as a feeder to lots of larger economically important centres, eg. Leeds.

    A lot of those living in places like Sherburn in Elmet or Tadcaster commute either to Leeds or to York. They're college and university educated and gravitate towards the Liberals more than Labour. There are still some areas which are dyed in the wool Tory - think around Tockwith, Kirk Hammerton or the parts skirting Harrogate and Knaresborough. It's the areas around Eggborough, Drax, Chapel Haddesley, North Duffield which could be interesting. Some of these areas commute to other areas (Doncaster, Hull, Sheffield).

    There are plenty of local issues at play that have never really been addressed properly: flooding around Selby can be an issue, especially in places to the north such as Cawood or to the south (such as closer to Snaith). The proposal for a new village to be built off the A19 close to Escrick and Stillingfleet has not been received well: the area is a massive flood plain and putting extra pressure on an already overworked A19 from Selby to York is only asking for trouble.

    Would I bet against the Conservatives? No. Then again, this is one I wouldn't bet on. There are far too many issues and variables that could influence the outcome.
    Yes you’re right. I was making a sweeping generalisation. I have family in Sherburn, it’s precisely as you describe. Lots of new housing full of well paid, younger, professional types with young families and two nice SUVs on the drive.

    But whether it’s enough to get the Cons out I don’t know. They’ll be angry at their mortgages and food and everything else rising, they’ll have grown up enjoying freedom of movement, they’ll be socially liberal. Starmer won’t scare them. Will they vote tactically?

    It’s going to be interesting.
    There are some constituencies I’ll bet on. No problem. Selby and Ainsty… I’m avoiding. Everything says that the Cons should win but I’m not so sure. Everything says Labour or the Lib Dem’s should take it, but…

    I grew up in Sherburn. I know the constituency as it is today (esp. the villages like Hillam, etc) and as it was before the last rounds of mergers. It has always been a commuter constituency - my parents worked in York, Leeds and Sheffield. To be blunt, it’s a bugger of a constituency to pin down.

    So many of the people I was at school with - in the 1980s and 1990s - went to uni, and thought they experienced the strikes and industrial action and voting Labour was entrenched with some families, they vote Tory. That being said, they’ve become socially liberal and enjoyed the benefits of Blair’s Labour government. Now they’re being hammered by interest rates, inflation and mortgage rates, the like of which haven’t been seen since their parents were clobbered in the 1980s.

    This doesn’t apply just in Sherburn. It’s the same throughout the constituency, in places like Knottingley or Monk Fryston, Tockwith or Tadcaster. Genuinely can’t call this one. The commuter element and the younger demographic make this a tough one.
    Yeah, I’m in Knottingley.

    Think i’m a similar age to you, I’m 45. Know what you mean about our cohort growing up in Labour households, make a few quid and start voting Tory. Never got it myself, always seemed like a betrayal, of the communities they grew up in, that solidarity, for want of a better word, that still lingers on. But that’s just me.

    Many I know never went to uni. Got good jobs in industry or whatever, even things like plastering, started making decent money and went Tory. And Brexit.

    Many, not all but a lot, of people I know who went to uni left and never came back. I went and did come back.

    I wouldn’t like to say how they’d vote now.
    To paraphrase Adrian Mole, I’m 43 and ¾ so… yeah. Not too dissimilar. I don’t mind people making money and changing how they vote. People need to think for themselves and I’d sooner they grow up, move elsewhere, see a bit of the world and form their own ideas. That’s why Selby and Ainsty is difficult to call. They don’t think (or vote) the way that their parents or grandparents did.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,374
    Selby I think could be a Conservative hold, bigger Labour vote in 2019 than so Shropshire North and Mid Bedfordshire and smaller LD vote there so local Labour Party will likely fight it in a proper contest and not hand it to the LDs. Thus splitting the anti Conservative vote
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Scott_xP said:

    @michaelsavage

    NEW: A detail from the honours list saga worth noting.

    I’m told a relatively recent draft included a damehood for... Boris’s landlady Carole Bamford.

    He stayed in her property for free after leaving No10.

    She wasn’t on the final list. Johnson spox says can’t comment on honours

    Probably NOT first landlady that BJxPMxMP has left in the lurch?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,374

    Sunak’s net approval drops to the lowest it’s been during his premiership.

    46% disapprove, while 26% approve – leaving a net approval of -20%.


    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1667607603621265409

    Starmer's approval also drops to its lowest since last October, 35% disapprove of Sir Keir's performance, 28% approve
    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1667607603621265409?s=20
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,567
    Foxy said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @MattChorley
    Oh this is excellent from @ShippersUnbound’s read:

    It’s all a plot to stop Brexit orchestrated by… Dominic Cummings 🤪


    We’ve been Brexed brutally. It couldn’t have been much harder. And it is final.

    Is he really going to stand on a ‘save Brexit’ platform?
    A bit like Farage with his "Brexit has Failed".

    All part of the "stab in the back" myth that Johnson wants to nurture in his wilderness years.
    Brexit has failed - Farage stabbed the country, though not in the back.
    We fell for his bullshit.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,374
    Farooq said:

    DougSeal said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    DougSeal said:

    Farooq said:

    DougSeal said:

    Farooq said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/10/uk-weather-thunderstorm-warnings-across-country-as-temperatures-soar

    Video of a guardsman after fainting. The band keeps playing and none of the people near him help. This country is fucking weird sick.

    I think that would happen in any self-respecting military in the world. Military personnel can’t just stop what they’re doing (having been specifically ordered to do it) whatever the circumstances
    Not when you're doing something of vital importance, maybe.

    But they're playing trombones.
    That’s not the way it works. Soldiers can’t judge for yourself themselves if a lawful order is of vital importance and prioritise accordingly. That’s what military discipline is all about. That’s true in all armies, at least the ones that function properly, not just the British one. I’m no soldier but being on parade, which is what they were doing, I understand has a role in promoting that discipline so military types may say it is of vital importance. Saying they’re not helping just because they’re from this specific country is plain wrong.
    Most countries don't put people out in the hot sunshine wearing enormous fur hats though!
    I find it hard to believe many countries do not have soldiers in inappropriate gear in hot weather.

    That's not to say it may not be a problem, but it seems a poor case to do a 'woe is the UK' about.
    Which ones? I remember seen Greek ones but that were furry bobbles on the toes... funny but not mad. I've tried googling a few other countries and I don't see much in the way of giant furry hats. It's insane. It's literally mad. We are a mad country.
    You are an arse or the worst order.

    A list of the other countries that use bearskin caps, including Canada, Sweden, Sri Lanka (notably chilly there) and Belgium, is at the below link -

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bearskin

    You are the reason why the left in the U.K. gets nowhere. You think that insulting the country is the best way of winning votes.
    I resent that.

    Not the "arse" thing, that's fair game. No, it's the accusation that criticising this country is the province of the left. I'm a dyed in the bearskin wool liberal. Not left or right, centre. Centre liberal. With a penchant for needling at British shibboleths. If you want to use me as evidence that you shouldn't vote for left-wing parties good. I don't want you to vote for leftist parties.

    And Doug. Mate. Cheer up. It's a lovely warm evening. Have a bear beer. But don't get dehydrated, eh lad?
    You are about as centrist as Corbyn
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,027
    There’s some bizarre Boris obsessed, Sycophantic MPs, who seem to be utterly blind to how this look to the GE. Johnson really isn’t worth going over the top for
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,918
    edited June 2023

    Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak held secret 'peace talks' meeting | Tim Shipman

    https://youtu.be/8NFo3HctQ-o

    It is blindingly obvious that Boris Johnson should never have been allowed to stand to be the leader of the Tory Party. It is a disgrace that Tory MPs voted for him in the first place.

    They wanted to win the next election and thought he was their best shot. They were right about that.

    That doesn't make it untrue that he was never fit to be PM, they seemed to agree up to that point (and his backers were worried they still did, hence whinging about potentially being excluded from the final two) and the rapid descent despite winning big shows they thought so again afterwards.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,824
    Cicero said:

    Rumours of a major Ukrainian breakout. Just hope they are true.

    Linky?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,918
    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    DougSeal said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    DougSeal said:

    Farooq said:

    DougSeal said:

    Farooq said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/10/uk-weather-thunderstorm-warnings-across-country-as-temperatures-soar

    Video of a guardsman after fainting. The band keeps playing and none of the people near him help. This country is fucking weird sick.

    I think that would happen in any self-respecting military in the world. Military personnel can’t just stop what they’re doing (having been specifically ordered to do it) whatever the circumstances
    Not when you're doing something of vital importance, maybe.

    But they're playing trombones.
    That’s not the way it works. Soldiers can’t judge for yourself themselves if a lawful order is of vital importance and prioritise accordingly. That’s what military discipline is all about. That’s true in all armies, at least the ones that function properly, not just the British one. I’m no soldier but being on parade, which is what they were doing, I understand has a role in promoting that discipline so military types may say it is of vital importance. Saying they’re not helping just because they’re from this specific country is plain wrong.
    Most countries don't put people out in the hot sunshine wearing enormous fur hats though!
    I find it hard to believe many countries do not have soldiers in inappropriate gear in hot weather.

    That's not to say it may not be a problem, but it seems a poor case to do a 'woe is the UK' about.
    Which ones? I remember seen Greek ones but that were furry bobbles on the toes... funny but not mad. I've tried googling a few other countries and I don't see much in the way of giant furry hats. It's insane. It's literally mad. We are a mad country.
    You are an arse or the worst order.

    A list of the other countries that use bearskin caps, including Canada, Sweden, Sri Lanka (notably chilly there) and Belgium, is at the below link -

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bearskin

    You are the reason why the left in the U.K. gets nowhere. You think that insulting the country is the best way of winning votes.
    I resent that.

    Not the "arse" thing, that's fair game. No, it's the accusation that criticising this country is the province of the left. I'm a dyed in the bearskin wool liberal. Not left or right, centre. Centre liberal. With a penchant for needling at British shibboleths. If you want to use me as evidence that you shouldn't vote for left-wing parties good. I don't want you to vote for leftist parties.

    And Doug. Mate. Cheer up. It's a lovely warm evening. Have a bear beer. But don't get dehydrated, eh lad?
    You are about as centrist as Corbyn
    That might be true it might not, but it is still true that the right criticise the country as well. Rees-Mogg is a complete radicalist rather than a traditionalist for example, who wants to adopt an explicitly presidential PM system. Just one of many examples.

    The ever moaning leftist strand of this sort of thing is true and annoying, but they are not alone.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,067

    Cicero said:

    Rumours of a major Ukrainian breakout. Just hope they are true.

    Hey @Cicero I've a few relatives going to Tallinn early August do you know of any places they really should go?
    How long are they around for?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,918

    Westie said:

    Westie said:

    Omnium said:

    Farooq said:

    Yokes said:

    kinabalu said:

    IanB2 said:

    A lovely moment toward the end of Friday’s Any Questions when the audience erupts in wild cheers as the news that the clown has resigned from parliament came through….

    Plus Donald Trump sinks further into the mire. Not the worst political day, was it?
    Being indicted is - so far - BOOSTING polling for Sage of Mar-a-Lardo aka former Security-Risk-in-Chief.
    Yeah but with who?
    With likely Republican primary voters.
    Timothy Snyder was on R4 this morning saying Trump was getting a boost with those already likely to vote for him but the independents/non-aligned were still turned off. I hope he’s right.
    I really fail to see how you could be neutral or hostile to Trump and then, looking at the last few days, suddenly think "actually, yeah, I like the cut of this guy's jib"
    Trump's not all wrong. He's perhaps the most astute and brave observer of our age. An idiot though.

    Quite how he can be the fool that he is and yet observe wisely in some things escapes me. The most likely confusion is that I have somehow misjudged him. Perhaps not a Chump. Ok, so moving on....
    Trump's not a fool. Nor is he all wrong. What he is, is insane. That amount of "positive thinking" (see Norman Vincent Peale) can drive a person insane and there's a literature on it. In his case that's not the whole of the causation, though.
    Nor is he the most astute and brave observer of our age.
    I don't know how closely you've looked at him. If you haven't done so already, you might read up on how he rates "Memories, Dreams, Reflections" by Carl Gustav Jung, not omitting to consider the God-sent turd that Jung writes about in it near the beginning. His engaging in name-calling is (in his mind) Jung-inspired.
    Dunno about judging or misjudging, but there's a lot out there about this guy and how he thinks. I studied him in depth in 2016.
    I bet on Trump to win in 2016 (more exactly, on Clinton to lose, because if Trump wasn't going to win I thought he'd drop out) and then on him to lose in 2020. Haven't formed a view yet on 2024. I'm sure he's pleased that Biden has said he'll stand for re-election.
    When you offer the electorate the same choice, they usually give the same answer. Johnson vs. Livingstone. Biden vs. Trump?
    US Presidential repeat matchups

    1952 and 1956 - Eisenhower (R) versus Stevenson (D) = Ike won both times

    1896 and 1900 - McKinley (R) versus Bryan (D) = McK won both times

    1888 and 1892 - Benjamin Harrison (R) versus Grover Cleveland (D) = Harrison won '88, Cleveland won '92

    1836 and 1840 - Martin Van Buren (D) versus William H. Harrison (W) = VB won '36, WHH won '40

    1824 and 1828 - John Quincy Adams (NR) versus Andrew Jackson (D) = JQA won '24, Jackson won '28

    1796 and 1800 - John Adams (F) versus Thomas Jefferson (DR) = Adams won '96, Jefferson won '00

    NOTE that last split decisions were 1896 and 1900 . . . exactly one century after the FIRST split decisions.
    Good old William H Harrison, the best President the USA has ever had.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,238
    HYUFD said:

    Selby I think could be a Conservative hold, bigger Labour vote in 2019 than so Shropshire North and Mid Bedfordshire and smaller LD vote there so local Labour Party will likely fight it in a proper contest and not hand it to the LDs. Thus splitting the anti Conservative vote

    I can’t see the LibDems making an effort in Selby and Ainsty. It’s not their demographic at all - Selby is quite working class and surprisingly run down for a market town with an abbey. I agree it’ll probably be a Conservative hold, but Labour have an outside chance.

    Incidentally here’s the origin of the “Ainsty” bit:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ainsty
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,374
    edited June 2023
    Leon said:

    This little rustic corner of Pennsylvania (near the Virginia border) is definitely Trump Country, FWIW

    Lots of “don’t blame me I voted for Trump” placards outside houses. Even the odd Confederate flag

    Slightly unexpected. In my simplistic British way I always presume Trump supporters are way inland and further south. America is such a patchwork

    Rural Pennsylvania voted overwhelmingly for Trump in 2020, as did rural areas more generally, only Philadelphia and its suburbs enabled Biden to win Pennsylvania overall. The divide is less North South than rural urban (like increasingly most of the West).

    Trump won 57% of rural voters even in 2020, Biden won 60% of urban area voters and the suburbs were split 50% for Biden and 48% for Trump.

    The South was only 53% for Trump however and 46% for Biden and even in the NorthEast Biden's 58% was less than his 60% in urban areas
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_presidential_election#Voter_demographics
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,742
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    DougSeal said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    DougSeal said:

    Farooq said:

    DougSeal said:

    Farooq said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/10/uk-weather-thunderstorm-warnings-across-country-as-temperatures-soar

    Video of a guardsman after fainting. The band keeps playing and none of the people near him help. This country is fucking weird sick.

    I think that would happen in any self-respecting military in the world. Military personnel can’t just stop what they’re doing (having been specifically ordered to do it) whatever the circumstances
    Not when you're doing something of vital importance, maybe.

    But they're playing trombones.
    That’s not the way it works. Soldiers can’t judge for yourself themselves if a lawful order is of vital importance and prioritise accordingly. That’s what military discipline is all about. That’s true in all armies, at least the ones that function properly, not just the British one. I’m no soldier but being on parade, which is what they were doing, I understand has a role in promoting that discipline so military types may say it is of vital importance. Saying they’re not helping just because they’re from this specific country is plain wrong.
    Most countries don't put people out in the hot sunshine wearing enormous fur hats though!
    I find it hard to believe many countries do not have soldiers in inappropriate gear in hot weather.

    That's not to say it may not be a problem, but it seems a poor case to do a 'woe is the UK' about.
    Which ones? I remember seen Greek ones but that were furry bobbles on the toes... funny but not mad. I've tried googling a few other countries and I don't see much in the way of giant furry hats. It's insane. It's literally mad. We are a mad country.
    You are an arse or the worst order.

    A list of the other countries that use bearskin caps, including Canada, Sweden, Sri Lanka (notably chilly there) and Belgium, is at the below link -

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bearskin

    You are the reason why the left in the U.K. gets nowhere. You think that insulting the country is the best way of winning votes.
    I resent that.

    Not the "arse" thing, that's fair game. No, it's the accusation that criticising this country is the province of the left. I'm a dyed in the bearskin wool liberal. Not left or right, centre. Centre liberal. With a penchant for needling at British shibboleths. If you want to use me as evidence that you shouldn't vote for left-wing parties good. I don't want you to vote for leftist parties.

    And Doug. Mate. Cheer up. It's a lovely warm evening. Have a bear beer. But don't get dehydrated, eh lad?
    You are about as centrist as Corbyn
    That might be true it might not, but it is still true that the right criticise the country as well. Rees-Mogg is a complete radicalist rather than a traditionalist for example, who wants to adopt an explicitly presidential PM system. Just one of many examples.

    The ever moaning leftist strand of this sort of thing is true and annoying, but they are not alone.
    What is the UK known for globally? The BBC. The Tories hate it. The NHS. Some of the Tories hate it. Our universities. The Tories hate them (except for the Oxford Union and Bullingdon Club). The monarchy. The Tories suspect the new King is too woke, and look what Truss did to the Queen.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,918
    I don't actually agree with the whole logic or reasoning, but I do think luckyguy is broadly correct in the conclusion that Sunak has no path to victory, since he does proportionally better with people who won't make a big difference to the result.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @MattChorley
    Oh this is excellent from @ShippersUnbound’s read:

    It’s all a plot to stop Brexit orchestrated by… Dominic Cummings 🤪


    We’ve been Brexed brutally. It couldn’t have been much harder. And it is final.

    Is he really going to stand on a ‘save Brexit’ platform?
    A bit like Farage with his "Brexit has Failed".

    All part of the "stab in the back" myth that Johnson wants to nurture in his wilderness years.
    Brexit has failed - Farage stabbed the country, though not in the back.
    We fell for his bullshit.
    Brexit is setting the stage well. We now have a good deal with the EU, CPTPP membership, and a US-UK FTA is on the cards. Our main problem is debt, worsened considerably by COVID, and brought into light by the mad Truss budget. In addition, the electorate need to use the tools Brexit has given them to end low skilled immigration.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,790
    WillG said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @MattChorley
    Oh this is excellent from @ShippersUnbound’s read:

    It’s all a plot to stop Brexit orchestrated by… Dominic Cummings 🤪


    We’ve been Brexed brutally. It couldn’t have been much harder. And it is final.

    Is he really going to stand on a ‘save Brexit’ platform?
    A bit like Farage with his "Brexit has Failed".

    All part of the "stab in the back" myth that Johnson wants to nurture in his wilderness years.
    Brexit has failed - Farage stabbed the country, though not in the back.
    We fell for his bullshit.
    Brexit is setting the stage well. We now have a good deal with the EU, CPTPP membership, and a US-UK FTA is on the cards. Our main problem is debt, worsened considerably by COVID, and brought into light by the mad Truss budget. In addition, the electorate need to use the tools Brexit has given them to end low skilled immigration.
    "'tis but a flesh wound!"
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,918

    Westie said:

    Westie said:

    Omnium said:

    Farooq said:

    Yokes said:

    kinabalu said:

    IanB2 said:

    A lovely moment toward the end of Friday’s Any Questions when the audience erupts in wild cheers as the news that the clown has resigned from parliament came through….

    Plus Donald Trump sinks further into the mire. Not the worst political day, was it?
    Being indicted is - so far - BOOSTING polling for Sage of Mar-a-Lardo aka former Security-Risk-in-Chief.
    Yeah but with who?
    With likely Republican primary voters.
    Timothy Snyder was on R4 this morning saying Trump was getting a boost with those already likely to vote for him but the independents/non-aligned were still turned off. I hope he’s right.
    I really fail to see how you could be neutral or hostile to Trump and then, looking at the last few days, suddenly think "actually, yeah, I like the cut of this guy's jib"
    Trump's not all wrong. He's perhaps the most astute and brave observer of our age. An idiot though.

    Quite how he can be the fool that he is and yet observe wisely in some things escapes me. The most likely confusion is that I have somehow misjudged him. Perhaps not a Chump. Ok, so moving on....
    Trump's not a fool. Nor is he all wrong. What he is, is insane. That amount of "positive thinking" (see Norman Vincent Peale) can drive a person insane and there's a literature on it. In his case that's not the whole of the causation, though.
    Nor is he the most astute and brave observer of our age.
    I don't know how closely you've looked at him. If you haven't done so already, you might read up on how he rates "Memories, Dreams, Reflections" by Carl Gustav Jung, not omitting to consider the God-sent turd that Jung writes about in it near the beginning. His engaging in name-calling is (in his mind) Jung-inspired.
    Dunno about judging or misjudging, but there's a lot out there about this guy and how he thinks. I studied him in depth in 2016.
    I bet on Trump to win in 2016 (more exactly, on Clinton to lose, because if Trump wasn't going to win I thought he'd drop out) and then on him to lose in 2020. Haven't formed a view yet on 2024. I'm sure he's pleased that Biden has said he'll stand for re-election.
    When you offer the electorate the same choice, they usually give the same answer. Johnson vs. Livingstone. Biden vs. Trump?
    Trump has become even more self obsessed and ranting than he was before, and double downed on all his worst behaviours. It has not hurt him with his base one bit, so we can but hope that a) Independents are sick to death of it b) the economy is doing well enough people don't think Biden is not the answer c) the response to a) is greater than the worry about Biden's apparent frailties.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,436
    WillG said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @MattChorley
    Oh this is excellent from @ShippersUnbound’s read:

    It’s all a plot to stop Brexit orchestrated by… Dominic Cummings 🤪


    We’ve been Brexed brutally. It couldn’t have been much harder. And it is final.

    Is he really going to stand on a ‘save Brexit’ platform?
    A bit like Farage with his "Brexit has Failed".

    All part of the "stab in the back" myth that Johnson wants to nurture in his wilderness years.
    Brexit has failed - Farage stabbed the country, though not in the back.
    We fell for his bullshit.
    Brexit is setting the stage well. We now have a good deal with the EU, CPTPP membership, and a US-UK FTA is on the cards. Our main problem is debt, worsened considerably by COVID, and brought into light by the mad Truss budget. In addition, the electorate need to use the tools Brexit has given them to end low skilled immigration.
    Hahaha
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,640
    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    DougSeal said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    DougSeal said:

    Farooq said:

    DougSeal said:

    Farooq said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/10/uk-weather-thunderstorm-warnings-across-country-as-temperatures-soar

    Video of a guardsman after fainting. The band keeps playing and none of the people near him help. This country is fucking weird sick.

    I think that would happen in any self-respecting military in the world. Military personnel can’t just stop what they’re doing (having been specifically ordered to do it) whatever the circumstances
    Not when you're doing something of vital importance, maybe.

    But they're playing trombones.
    That’s not the way it works. Soldiers can’t judge for yourself themselves if a lawful order is of vital importance and prioritise accordingly. That’s what military discipline is all about. That’s true in all armies, at least the ones that function properly, not just the British one. I’m no soldier but being on parade, which is what they were doing, I understand has a role in promoting that discipline so military types may say it is of vital importance. Saying they’re not helping just because they’re from this specific country is plain wrong.
    Most countries don't put people out in the hot sunshine wearing enormous fur hats though!
    I find it hard to believe many countries do not have soldiers in inappropriate gear in hot weather.

    That's not to say it may not be a problem, but it seems a poor case to do a 'woe is the UK' about.
    Which ones? I remember seen Greek ones but that were furry bobbles on the toes... funny but not mad. I've tried googling a few other countries and I don't see much in the way of giant furry hats. It's insane. It's literally mad. We are a mad country.
    You are an arse or the worst order.

    A list of the other countries that use bearskin caps, including Canada, Sweden, Sri Lanka (notably chilly there) and Belgium, is at the below link -

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bearskin

    You are the reason why the left in the U.K. gets nowhere. You think that insulting the country is the best way of winning votes.
    I resent that.

    Not the "arse" thing, that's fair game. No, it's the accusation that criticising this country is the province of the left. I'm a dyed in the bearskin wool liberal. Not left or right, centre. Centre liberal. With a penchant for needling at British shibboleths. If you want to use me as evidence that you shouldn't vote for left-wing parties good. I don't want you to vote for leftist parties.

    And Doug. Mate. Cheer up. It's a lovely warm evening. Have a bear beer. But don't get dehydrated, eh lad?
    You are about as centrist as Corbyn
    That's what it must look like from you, because you're a Falangist
    I know. He thinks I'm a raving lefty when I'm as cuddly a centrist dad as one can get.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,595

    HYUFD said:

    Selby I think could be a Conservative hold, bigger Labour vote in 2019 than so Shropshire North and Mid Bedfordshire and smaller LD vote there so local Labour Party will likely fight it in a proper contest and not hand it to the LDs. Thus splitting the anti Conservative vote

    I can’t see the LibDems making an effort in Selby and Ainsty. It’s not their demographic at all - Selby is quite working class and surprisingly run down for a market town with an abbey. I agree it’ll probably be a Conservative hold, but Labour have an outside chance.

    Incidentally here’s the origin of the “Ainsty” bit:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ainsty
    Selby was a Labour seat from 1997 to 2010.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,374
    How Selby & Ainsty would vote if an election was held today -- Britain Predicts

    CON: 40.5% (-19.8)
    LAB: 38.5% (+13.9)
    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1667515900537307136?s=20
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,378
    IanB2 said:

    WillG said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @MattChorley
    Oh this is excellent from @ShippersUnbound’s read:

    It’s all a plot to stop Brexit orchestrated by… Dominic Cummings 🤪


    We’ve been Brexed brutally. It couldn’t have been much harder. And it is final.

    Is he really going to stand on a ‘save Brexit’ platform?
    A bit like Farage with his "Brexit has Failed".

    All part of the "stab in the back" myth that Johnson wants to nurture in his wilderness years.
    Brexit has failed - Farage stabbed the country, though not in the back.
    We fell for his bullshit.
    Brexit is setting the stage well. We now have a good deal with the EU, CPTPP membership, and a US-UK FTA is on the cards. Our main problem is debt, worsened considerably by COVID, and brought into light by the mad Truss budget. In addition, the electorate need to use the tools Brexit has given them to end low skilled immigration.
    "'tis but a flesh wound!"
    The Eurozone is currently in recession, unlike the UK. The economic impact of Brexit has been much more marginal than its opponents claimed it would be.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,595
    edited June 2023
    HYUFD said:

    How Selby & Ainsty would vote if an election was held today -- Britain Predicts

    CON: 40.5% (-19.8)
    LAB: 38.5% (+13.9)
    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1667515900537307136?s=20

    That's going to be too close for Con to hold in an actual kick-the-government by-election.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,742

    HYUFD said:

    Selby I think could be a Conservative hold, bigger Labour vote in 2019 than so Shropshire North and Mid Bedfordshire and smaller LD vote there so local Labour Party will likely fight it in a proper contest and not hand it to the LDs. Thus splitting the anti Conservative vote

    I can’t see the LibDems making an effort in Selby and Ainsty. It’s not their demographic at all - Selby is quite working class and surprisingly run down for a market town with an abbey. I agree it’ll probably be a Conservative hold, but Labour have an outside chance.

    Incidentally here’s the origin of the “Ainsty” bit:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ainsty
    Selby was a Labour seat from 1997 to 2010.
    On very different boundaries.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,918
    edited June 2023
    I was watching the first episode of Yes Minister earlier, actually one of the episodes I remember less well than others.

    Notable to me that Hacker is said to have increased his majority, yet also only had a majority of a few thousand, so no wonder he was always so nervous. He apparently ran the leadership campaign against the incoming PM, so was uncertain what post he might get - so him then getting the top job just a few years later was quite the coup. And a journalist comment says he's a bit on the young side for a Cabinet post (he had been shadow minister for agriculture), whilst also saying he is in his late 40s. Different times I guess.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,595
    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    DougSeal said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    DougSeal said:

    Farooq said:

    DougSeal said:

    Farooq said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/10/uk-weather-thunderstorm-warnings-across-country-as-temperatures-soar

    Video of a guardsman after fainting. The band keeps playing and none of the people near him help. This country is fucking weird sick.

    I think that would happen in any self-respecting military in the world. Military personnel can’t just stop what they’re doing (having been specifically ordered to do it) whatever the circumstances
    Not when you're doing something of vital importance, maybe.

    But they're playing trombones.
    That’s not the way it works. Soldiers can’t judge for yourself themselves if a lawful order is of vital importance and prioritise accordingly. That’s what military discipline is all about. That’s true in all armies, at least the ones that function properly, not just the British one. I’m no soldier but being on parade, which is what they were doing, I understand has a role in promoting that discipline so military types may say it is of vital importance. Saying they’re not helping just because they’re from this specific country is plain wrong.
    Most countries don't put people out in the hot sunshine wearing enormous fur hats though!
    I find it hard to believe many countries do not have soldiers in inappropriate gear in hot weather.

    That's not to say it may not be a problem, but it seems a poor case to do a 'woe is the UK' about.
    Which ones? I remember seen Greek ones but that were furry bobbles on the toes... funny but not mad. I've tried googling a few other countries and I don't see much in the way of giant furry hats. It's insane. It's literally mad. We are a mad country.
    You are an arse or the worst order.

    A list of the other countries that use bearskin caps, including Canada, Sweden, Sri Lanka (notably chilly there) and Belgium, is at the below link -

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bearskin

    You are the reason why the left in the U.K. gets nowhere. You think that insulting the country is the best way of winning votes.
    I resent that.

    Not the "arse" thing, that's fair game. No, it's the accusation that criticising this country is the province of the left. I'm a dyed in the bearskin wool liberal. Not left or right, centre. Centre liberal. With a penchant for needling at British shibboleths. If you want to use me as evidence that you shouldn't vote for left-wing parties good. I don't want you to vote for leftist parties.

    And Doug. Mate. Cheer up. It's a lovely warm evening. Have a bear beer. But don't get dehydrated, eh lad?
    You are about as centrist as Corbyn
    That's what it must look like from you, because you're a Falangist
    Everyone's a leftie from HY's perspective.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    WillG said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @MattChorley
    Oh this is excellent from @ShippersUnbound’s read:

    It’s all a plot to stop Brexit orchestrated by… Dominic Cummings 🤪


    We’ve been Brexed brutally. It couldn’t have been much harder. And it is final.

    Is he really going to stand on a ‘save Brexit’ platform?
    A bit like Farage with his "Brexit has Failed".

    All part of the "stab in the back" myth that Johnson wants to nurture in his wilderness years.
    Brexit has failed - Farage stabbed the country, though not in the back.
    We fell for his bullshit.
    Brexit is setting the stage well. We now have a good deal with the EU, CPTPP membership, and a US-UK FTA is on the cards. Our main problem is debt, worsened considerably by COVID, and brought into light by the mad Truss budget. In addition, the electorate need to use the tools Brexit has given them to end low skilled immigration.
    What the fuck have you been drinking you halfwit!! Its only 8pm too!
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,175
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    DougSeal said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    DougSeal said:

    Farooq said:

    DougSeal said:

    Farooq said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/10/uk-weather-thunderstorm-warnings-across-country-as-temperatures-soar

    Video of a guardsman after fainting. The band keeps playing and none of the people near him help. This country is fucking weird sick.

    I think that would happen in any self-respecting military in the world. Military personnel can’t just stop what they’re doing (having been specifically ordered to do it) whatever the circumstances
    Not when you're doing something of vital importance, maybe.

    But they're playing trombones.
    That’s not the way it works. Soldiers can’t judge for yourself themselves if a lawful order is of vital importance and prioritise accordingly. That’s what military discipline is all about. That’s true in all armies, at least the ones that function properly, not just the British one. I’m no soldier but being on parade, which is what they were doing, I understand has a role in promoting that discipline so military types may say it is of vital importance. Saying they’re not helping just because they’re from this specific country is plain wrong.
    Most countries don't put people out in the hot sunshine wearing enormous fur hats though!
    I find it hard to believe many countries do not have soldiers in inappropriate gear in hot weather.

    That's not to say it may not be a problem, but it seems a poor case to do a 'woe is the UK' about.
    Which ones? I remember seen Greek ones but that were furry bobbles on the toes... funny but not mad. I've tried googling a few other countries and I don't see much in the way of giant furry hats. It's insane. It's literally mad. We are a mad country.
    You are an arse or the worst order.

    A list of the other countries that use bearskin caps, including Canada, Sweden, Sri Lanka (notably chilly there) and Belgium, is at the below link -

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bearskin

    You are the reason why the left in the U.K. gets nowhere. You think that insulting the country is the best way of winning votes.
    I resent that.

    Not the "arse" thing, that's fair game. No, it's the accusation that criticising this country is the province of the left. I'm a dyed in the bearskin wool liberal. Not left or right, centre. Centre liberal. With a penchant for needling at British shibboleths. If you want to use me as evidence that you shouldn't vote for left-wing parties good. I don't want you to vote for leftist parties.

    And Doug. Mate. Cheer up. It's a lovely warm evening. Have a bear beer. But don't get dehydrated, eh lad?
    You are about as centrist as Corbyn
    That might be true it might not, but it is still true that the right criticise the country as well. Rees-Mogg is a complete radicalist rather than a traditionalist for example, who wants to adopt an explicitly presidential PM system. Just one of many examples.

    The ever moaning leftist strand of this sort of thing is true and annoying, but they are not alone.
    Peter Hitchens is a right winger who hates his own country, and there are plenty online.

    For some, it’s the gays. A country which tolerates them is a degenerate hellhole, which ought to be destroyed.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,374
    edited June 2023

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    DougSeal said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    DougSeal said:

    Farooq said:

    DougSeal said:

    Farooq said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/10/uk-weather-thunderstorm-warnings-across-country-as-temperatures-soar

    Video of a guardsman after fainting. The band keeps playing and none of the people near him help. This country is fucking weird sick.

    I think that would happen in any self-respecting military in the world. Military personnel can’t just stop what they’re doing (having been specifically ordered to do it) whatever the circumstances
    Not when you're doing something of vital importance, maybe.

    But they're playing trombones.
    That’s not the way it works. Soldiers can’t judge for yourself themselves if a lawful order is of vital importance and prioritise accordingly. That’s what military discipline is all about. That’s true in all armies, at least the ones that function properly, not just the British one. I’m no soldier but being on parade, which is what they were doing, I understand has a role in promoting that discipline so military types may say it is of vital importance. Saying they’re not helping just because they’re from this specific country is plain wrong.
    Most countries don't put people out in the hot sunshine wearing enormous fur hats though!
    I find it hard to believe many countries do not have soldiers in inappropriate gear in hot weather.

    That's not to say it may not be a problem, but it seems a poor case to do a 'woe is the UK' about.
    Which ones? I remember seen Greek ones but that were furry bobbles on the toes... funny but not mad. I've tried googling a few other countries and I don't see much in the way of giant furry hats. It's insane. It's literally mad. We are a mad country.
    You are an arse or the worst order.

    A list of the other countries that use bearskin caps, including Canada, Sweden, Sri Lanka (notably chilly there) and Belgium, is at the below link -

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bearskin

    You are the reason why the left in the U.K. gets nowhere. You think that insulting the country is the best way of winning votes.
    I resent that.

    Not the "arse" thing, that's fair game. No, it's the accusation that criticising this country is the province of the left. I'm a dyed in the bearskin wool liberal. Not left or right, centre. Centre liberal. With a penchant for needling at British shibboleths. If you want to use me as evidence that you shouldn't vote for left-wing parties good. I don't want you to vote for leftist parties.

    And Doug. Mate. Cheer up. It's a lovely warm evening. Have a bear beer. But don't get dehydrated, eh lad?
    You are about as centrist as Corbyn
    That might be true it might not, but it is still true that the right criticise the country as well. Rees-Mogg is a complete radicalist rather than a traditionalist for example, who wants to adopt an explicitly presidential PM system. Just one of many examples.

    The ever moaning leftist strand of this sort of thing is true and annoying, but they are not alone.
    What is the UK known for globally? The BBC. The Tories hate it. The NHS. Some of the Tories hate it. Our universities. The Tories hate them (except for the Oxford Union and Bullingdon Club). The monarchy. The Tories suspect the new King is too woke, and look what Truss did to the Queen.

    Tories love Camilla though and Princess Anne and Prince Edward, they quite like Exeter and Durham and St Andrews universities (and the poshest Oxford colleges like Trinity, Cambridge and Magdalen and Christ Church, Oxford which are less woke). Female Tories even like the BBC for the Archers
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,175

    IanB2 said:

    WillG said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @MattChorley
    Oh this is excellent from @ShippersUnbound’s read:

    It’s all a plot to stop Brexit orchestrated by… Dominic Cummings 🤪


    We’ve been Brexed brutally. It couldn’t have been much harder. And it is final.

    Is he really going to stand on a ‘save Brexit’ platform?
    A bit like Farage with his "Brexit has Failed".

    All part of the "stab in the back" myth that Johnson wants to nurture in his wilderness years.
    Brexit has failed - Farage stabbed the country, though not in the back.
    We fell for his bullshit.
    Brexit is setting the stage well. We now have a good deal with the EU, CPTPP membership, and a US-UK FTA is on the cards. Our main problem is debt, worsened considerably by COVID, and brought into light by the mad Truss budget. In addition, the electorate need to use the tools Brexit has given them to end low skilled immigration.
    "'tis but a flesh wound!"
    The Eurozone is currently in recession, unlike the UK. The economic impact of Brexit has been much more marginal than its opponents claimed it would be.
    The economic arguments are trivial either way.

    Political disputes are framed in economic terms.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,607
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    DougSeal said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    DougSeal said:

    Farooq said:

    DougSeal said:

    Farooq said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/10/uk-weather-thunderstorm-warnings-across-country-as-temperatures-soar

    Video of a guardsman after fainting. The band keeps playing and none of the people near him help. This country is fucking weird sick.

    I think that would happen in any self-respecting military in the world. Military personnel can’t just stop what they’re doing (having been specifically ordered to do it) whatever the circumstances
    Not when you're doing something of vital importance, maybe.

    But they're playing trombones.
    That’s not the way it works. Soldiers can’t judge for yourself themselves if a lawful order is of vital importance and prioritise accordingly. That’s what military discipline is all about. That’s true in all armies, at least the ones that function properly, not just the British one. I’m no soldier but being on parade, which is what they were doing, I understand has a role in promoting that discipline so military types may say it is of vital importance. Saying they’re not helping just because they’re from this specific country is plain wrong.
    Most countries don't put people out in the hot sunshine wearing enormous fur hats though!
    I find it hard to believe many countries do not have soldiers in inappropriate gear in hot weather.

    That's not to say it may not be a problem, but it seems a poor case to do a 'woe is the UK' about.
    Which ones? I remember seen Greek ones but that were furry bobbles on the toes... funny but not mad. I've tried googling a few other countries and I don't see much in the way of giant furry hats. It's insane. It's literally mad. We are a mad country.
    You are an arse or the worst order.

    A list of the other countries that use bearskin caps, including Canada, Sweden, Sri Lanka (notably chilly there) and Belgium, is at the below link -

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bearskin

    You are the reason why the left in the U.K. gets nowhere. You think that insulting the country is the best way of winning votes.
    I resent that.

    Not the "arse" thing, that's fair game. No, it's the accusation that criticising this country is the province of the left. I'm a dyed in the bearskin wool liberal. Not left or right, centre. Centre liberal. With a penchant for needling at British shibboleths. If you want to use me as evidence that you shouldn't vote for left-wing parties good. I don't want you to vote for leftist parties.

    And Doug. Mate. Cheer up. It's a lovely warm evening. Have a bear beer. But don't get dehydrated, eh lad?
    You are about as centrist as Corbyn
    That might be true it might not, but it is still true that the right criticise the country as well. Rees-Mogg is a complete radicalist rather than a traditionalist for example, who wants to adopt an explicitly presidential PM system. Just one of many examples.

    The ever moaning leftist strand of this sort of thing is true and annoying, but they are not alone.
    What is the UK known for globally? The BBC. The Tories hate it. The NHS. Some of the Tories hate it. Our universities. The Tories hate them (except for the Oxford Union and Bullingdon Club). The monarchy. The Tories suspect the new King is too woke, and look what Truss did to the Queen.

    Tories love Camilla though and Princess Anne
    Should've gone to Specsavers :lol:
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,492

    IanB2 said:

    WillG said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @MattChorley
    Oh this is excellent from @ShippersUnbound’s read:

    It’s all a plot to stop Brexit orchestrated by… Dominic Cummings 🤪


    We’ve been Brexed brutally. It couldn’t have been much harder. And it is final.

    Is he really going to stand on a ‘save Brexit’ platform?
    A bit like Farage with his "Brexit has Failed".

    All part of the "stab in the back" myth that Johnson wants to nurture in his wilderness years.
    Brexit has failed - Farage stabbed the country, though not in the back.
    We fell for his bullshit.
    Brexit is setting the stage well. We now have a good deal with the EU, CPTPP membership, and a US-UK FTA is on the cards. Our main problem is debt, worsened considerably by COVID, and brought into light by the mad Truss budget. In addition, the electorate need to use the tools Brexit has given them to end low skilled immigration.
    "'tis but a flesh wound!"
    The Eurozone is currently in recession, unlike the UK. The economic impact of Brexit has been much more marginal than its opponents claimed it would be.
    Only because Q4 GDP was adjusted to -0.1%. Could happen here too when the final figures come in.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,918
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    DougSeal said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    DougSeal said:

    Farooq said:

    DougSeal said:

    Farooq said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/10/uk-weather-thunderstorm-warnings-across-country-as-temperatures-soar

    Video of a guardsman after fainting. The band keeps playing and none of the people near him help. This country is fucking weird sick.

    I think that would happen in any self-respecting military in the world. Military personnel can’t just stop what they’re doing (having been specifically ordered to do it) whatever the circumstances
    Not when you're doing something of vital importance, maybe.

    But they're playing trombones.
    That’s not the way it works. Soldiers can’t judge for yourself themselves if a lawful order is of vital importance and prioritise accordingly. That’s what military discipline is all about. That’s true in all armies, at least the ones that function properly, not just the British one. I’m no soldier but being on parade, which is what they were doing, I understand has a role in promoting that discipline so military types may say it is of vital importance. Saying they’re not helping just because they’re from this specific country is plain wrong.
    Most countries don't put people out in the hot sunshine wearing enormous fur hats though!
    I find it hard to believe many countries do not have soldiers in inappropriate gear in hot weather.

    That's not to say it may not be a problem, but it seems a poor case to do a 'woe is the UK' about.
    Which ones? I remember seen Greek ones but that were furry bobbles on the toes... funny but not mad. I've tried googling a few other countries and I don't see much in the way of giant furry hats. It's insane. It's literally mad. We are a mad country.
    You are an arse or the worst order.

    A list of the other countries that use bearskin caps, including Canada, Sweden, Sri Lanka (notably chilly there) and Belgium, is at the below link -

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bearskin

    You are the reason why the left in the U.K. gets nowhere. You think that insulting the country is the best way of winning votes.
    I resent that.

    Not the "arse" thing, that's fair game. No, it's the accusation that criticising this country is the province of the left. I'm a dyed in the bearskin wool liberal. Not left or right, centre. Centre liberal. With a penchant for needling at British shibboleths. If you want to use me as evidence that you shouldn't vote for left-wing parties good. I don't want you to vote for leftist parties.

    And Doug. Mate. Cheer up. It's a lovely warm evening. Have a bear beer. But don't get dehydrated, eh lad?
    You are about as centrist as Corbyn
    That might be true it might not, but it is still true that the right criticise the country as well. Rees-Mogg is a complete radicalist rather than a traditionalist for example, who wants to adopt an explicitly presidential PM system. Just one of many examples.

    The ever moaning leftist strand of this sort of thing is true and annoying, but they are not alone.
    What is the UK known for globally? The BBC. The Tories hate it. The NHS. Some of the Tories hate it. Our universities. The Tories hate them (except for the Oxford Union and Bullingdon Club). The monarchy. The Tories suspect the new King is too woke, and look what Truss did to the Queen.

    Tories love Camilla though and Princess Anne and Prince Edward, they quite like Exeter and Durham and St Andrews universities (and the poshest Oxford colleges like Trinity, Cambridge and Magdalen and Christ Church, Oxford which are less woke). Female Tories even like the BBC for the Archers
    The point being there are bits of the country they like and bits they don't like, as with Labour - both want to improve things. And their most extreme members are utter whackjobs who hate some pretty widely regarded aspects of Britain.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,448
    edited June 2023
    Error
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,077
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    DougSeal said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    DougSeal said:

    Farooq said:

    DougSeal said:

    Farooq said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/10/uk-weather-thunderstorm-warnings-across-country-as-temperatures-soar

    Video of a guardsman after fainting. The band keeps playing and none of the people near him help. This country is fucking weird sick.

    I think that would happen in any self-respecting military in the world. Military personnel can’t just stop what they’re doing (having been specifically ordered to do it) whatever the circumstances
    Not when you're doing something of vital importance, maybe.

    But they're playing trombones.
    That’s not the way it works. Soldiers can’t judge for yourself themselves if a lawful order is of vital importance and prioritise accordingly. That’s what military discipline is all about. That’s true in all armies, at least the ones that function properly, not just the British one. I’m no soldier but being on parade, which is what they were doing, I understand has a role in promoting that discipline so military types may say it is of vital importance. Saying they’re not helping just because they’re from this specific country is plain wrong.
    Most countries don't put people out in the hot sunshine wearing enormous fur hats though!
    I find it hard to believe many countries do not have soldiers in inappropriate gear in hot weather.

    That's not to say it may not be a problem, but it seems a poor case to do a 'woe is the UK' about.
    Which ones? I remember seen Greek ones but that were furry bobbles on the toes... funny but not mad. I've tried googling a few other countries and I don't see much in the way of giant furry hats. It's insane. It's literally mad. We are a mad country.
    You are an arse or the worst order.

    A list of the other countries that use bearskin caps, including Canada, Sweden, Sri Lanka (notably chilly there) and Belgium, is at the below link -

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bearskin

    You are the reason why the left in the U.K. gets nowhere. You think that insulting the country is the best way of winning votes.
    I resent that.

    Not the "arse" thing, that's fair game. No, it's the accusation that criticising this country is the province of the left. I'm a dyed in the bearskin wool liberal. Not left or right, centre. Centre liberal. With a penchant for needling at British shibboleths. If you want to use me as evidence that you shouldn't vote for left-wing parties good. I don't want you to vote for leftist parties.

    And Doug. Mate. Cheer up. It's a lovely warm evening. Have a bear beer. But don't get dehydrated, eh lad?
    You are about as centrist as Corbyn
    That might be true it might not, but it is still true that the right criticise the country as well. Rees-Mogg is a complete radicalist rather than a traditionalist for example, who wants to adopt an explicitly presidential PM system. Just one of many examples.

    The ever moaning leftist strand of this sort of thing is true and annoying, but they are not alone.
    What is the UK known for globally? The BBC. The Tories hate it. The NHS. Some of the Tories hate it. Our universities. The Tories hate them (except for the Oxford Union and Bullingdon Club). The monarchy. The Tories suspect the new King is too woke, and look what Truss did to the Queen.

    Tories love Camilla though and Princess Anne and Prince Edward, they quite like Exeter and Durham and St Andrews universities (and the poshest Oxford colleges like Trinity, Cambridge and Magdalen and Christ Church, Oxford which are less woke). Female Tories even like the BBC for the Archers
    Probably all true.

    But, that's a very large slice of the country that true Tories don't like. And that's a problem if they aspire to win elections.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,352

    HYUFD said:

    Selby I think could be a Conservative hold, bigger Labour vote in 2019 than so Shropshire North and Mid Bedfordshire and smaller LD vote there so local Labour Party will likely fight it in a proper contest and not hand it to the LDs. Thus splitting the anti Conservative vote

    I can’t see the LibDems making an effort in Selby and Ainsty. It’s not their demographic at all - Selby is quite working class and surprisingly run down for a market town with an abbey. I agree it’ll probably be a Conservative hold, but Labour have an outside chance.

    Incidentally here’s the origin of the “Ainsty” bit:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ainsty
    Selby was a Labour seat from 1997 to 2010.
    On very different boundaries.
    And. Importantly. A totally different demographic in the non-Selby bits.
    Southern part of York including University then.
    Prosperous commuter villages around Harrogate now.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,175
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    DougSeal said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    DougSeal said:

    Farooq said:

    DougSeal said:

    Farooq said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/10/uk-weather-thunderstorm-warnings-across-country-as-temperatures-soar

    Video of a guardsman after fainting. The band keeps playing and none of the people near him help. This country is fucking weird sick.

    I think that would happen in any self-respecting military in the world. Military personnel can’t just stop what they’re doing (having been specifically ordered to do it) whatever the circumstances
    Not when you're doing something of vital importance, maybe.

    But they're playing trombones.
    That’s not the way it works. Soldiers can’t judge for yourself themselves if a lawful order is of vital importance and prioritise accordingly. That’s what military discipline is all about. That’s true in all armies, at least the ones that function properly, not just the British one. I’m no soldier but being on parade, which is what they were doing, I understand has a role in promoting that discipline so military types may say it is of vital importance. Saying they’re not helping just because they’re from this specific country is plain wrong.
    Most countries don't put people out in the hot sunshine wearing enormous fur hats though!
    I find it hard to believe many countries do not have soldiers in inappropriate gear in hot weather.

    That's not to say it may not be a problem, but it seems a poor case to do a 'woe is the UK' about.
    Which ones? I remember seen Greek ones but that were furry bobbles on the toes... funny but not mad. I've tried googling a few other countries and I don't see much in the way of giant furry hats. It's insane. It's literally mad. We are a mad country.
    You are an arse or the worst order.

    A list of the other countries that use bearskin caps, including Canada, Sweden, Sri Lanka (notably chilly there) and Belgium, is at the below link -

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bearskin

    You are the reason why the left in the U.K. gets nowhere. You think that insulting the country is the best way of winning votes.
    I resent that.

    Not the "arse" thing, that's fair game. No, it's the accusation that criticising this country is the province of the left. I'm a dyed in the bearskin wool liberal. Not left or right, centre. Centre liberal. With a penchant for needling at British shibboleths. If you want to use me as evidence that you shouldn't vote for left-wing parties good. I don't want you to vote for leftist parties.

    And Doug. Mate. Cheer up. It's a lovely warm evening. Have a bear beer. But don't get dehydrated, eh lad?
    You are about as centrist as Corbyn
    That might be true it might not, but it is still true that the right criticise the country as well. Rees-Mogg is a complete radicalist rather than a traditionalist for example, who wants to adopt an explicitly presidential PM system. Just one of many examples.

    The ever moaning leftist strand of this sort of thing is true and annoying, but they are not alone.
    What is the UK known for globally? The BBC. The Tories hate it. The NHS. Some of the Tories hate it. Our universities. The Tories hate them (except for the Oxford Union and Bullingdon Club). The monarchy. The Tories suspect the new King is too woke, and look what Truss did to the Queen.

    Tories love Camilla though and Princess Anne and Prince Edward, they quite like Exeter and Durham and St Andrews universities (and the poshest Oxford colleges like Trinity, Cambridge and Magdalen and Christ Church, Oxford which are less woke). Female Tories even like the BBC for the Archers
    The point being there are bits of the country they like and bits they don't like, as with Labour - both want to improve things. And their most extreme members are utter whackjobs who hate some pretty widely regarded aspects of Britain.
    Right wing voters, I think, are hugely sympathetic to the armed forces and British military history.

    In fact, eminent military historians are disproportionately British and American, because on the continent, there is real academic hostility towards the discipline, these days.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,567
    National Security Implications of Trump’s Indictment: A Damage Assessment
    https://www.justsecurity.org/86887/national-security-implications-of-trumps-indictment-a-damage-assessment/

  • franklynfranklyn Posts: 319
    Mid Beds by election.

    Councillor Gareth Mackey, deputy leader of the independent group who took control of the council last month will be an Independent candidate in the by election. The council does not exactly correspond to the parliamentary constituency, but the independent group spectacularly overthrew the Conservatives who ran it prior to May.

    Gareth Mackey is a longstanding councillor in Flitwick, the largest town in Mid Beds. He has started a Go Fund Me appeal for support to fund his campaign which already has a significant number of contributors.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,065
    It's nice to see the back of both Boris and Corbyn once and for all.

    They both represented the worst of their parties and, hopefully, the absolute nature of their demise (along with the Truss cameo) will see a return to more sensible politics of the left/right well beyond the next election.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,374
    franklyn said:

    Mid Beds by election.

    Councillor Gareth Mackey, deputy leader of the independent group who took control of the council last month will be an Independent candidate in the by election. The council does not exactly correspond to the parliamentary constituency, but the independent group spectacularly overthrew the Conservatives who ran it prior to May.

    Gareth Mackey is a longstanding councillor in Flitwick, the largest town in Mid Beds. He has started a Go Fund Me appeal for support to fund his campaign which already has a significant number of contributors.

    Could split the anti Tory vote if he takes some voters who would otherwise have gone LD
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,971
    Any more of the Bozo Brigade going to throw themselves from a metaphorical third floor window?
This discussion has been closed.