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Hey Siri, show me what ‘hoist with his own petard’ looks like – politicalbetting.com

13

Comments

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    eek said:

    That peerage for Ben Houchen is going to come out really sleazy as the Teesworks profiteering becomes public knowledge.

    Sharma, Nads and Stan pulled from the list yet Ben makes the cut. Some mistake surely?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    edited June 2023
    I don't know if Guido uploaded the proper version or managed to type it up, but if the former then it has the crappy formatting that you sometimes see in a rush job where someone was removed last minute and mucked up the headings and page alignment like so.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Ghedebrav said:

    franklyn said:

    As this is a political betting site, can someone please help me?

    How do I put a bet on for the Mid Bedfordshire by election which will happen following Nadine Dories announcing that she is standing down with immediate effect?

    Thank you

    Betfair and various bookmakers will probably open markets in the next day or two.
    Ladbrokes have their market up.

    https://sports.ladbrokes.com/event/politics/uk/uk-politics/mid-bedfordshire-by-election/240430468/all-markets

    EDIT: Cons already shortened slightly
    Odds on already. Bit ungenerous.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited June 2023
    Pro_Rata said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Roger said:

    Scott_xP said:

    How sleazy do you have to be to accept an "honour" from BoZo..?

    Michael Fabricant sounds like a Knight to remember....
    I always thought Fabricant would be a good person to intercede between William and Harry and lower the tensions between those on the royal line of succession.
    One look at Fabricant and you can't help but think: heir peace
    Nice set up....the question is, when the inevitable requirement for compensation arises, someone is bound to ask "who is toupee?"
    This needs an HYUFD judgement, as per his purity test last night, on whether Fabricant would have voted Tory in the 1842 general election.
    In 1841 under Peel yes Fabricant would have still been a Conservative but in 1832 when Wellington was Tory leader Fabricant would likely have been a Whig. Jacob Rees Mogg, Bill Cash and Edward Leigh would definitely have been Tories even in 1832 however
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,908
    edited June 2023
    I think Nadine is correct to resign. A place in the House of Lords isn't sufficient compensation for having her head wedged up Broris Johnson's backside for three and a half years.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    kinabalu said:

    Dame Andrea Jenkyns. I think this says it all. The only way is up, truly.

    The only way is the abolition of the entire system, which has clearly fallen into utter disrepute.
    So bad that even Nadine appears to have refused an honour.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    Arise Dame Priti.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    HYUFD said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Roger said:

    Scott_xP said:

    How sleazy do you have to be to accept an "honour" from BoZo..?

    Michael Fabricant sounds like a Knight to remember....
    I always thought Fabricant would be a good person to intercede between William and Harry and lower the tensions between those on the royal line of succession.
    One look at Fabricant and you can't help but think: heir peace
    Nice set up....the question is, when the inevitable requirement for compensation arises, someone is bound to ask "who is toupee?"
    This needs an HYUFD judgement, as per his purity test last night, on whether Fabricant would have voted Tory in the 1842 general election.
    In 1841 under Peel yes Fabricant would have still been a Conservative but in 1832 when Wellington was Tory leader Fabricant would likely have been a Whig. Jacob Rees Mogg, Bill Cash and Edward Leigh would definitely have been Tories even in 1832 however
    Where would they have fallen during second baron's war?
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    Christ, Bill Cash is a Companion of Honour! TSE was right about the royals all along!

    That they are too close to cash? One poster won't be happy...

    (Incidentally, CH is of course a government recommendation.)
    I am certainly no recommendation of this Government
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Shame on you, Cambridge and Imperial.

    A big scoop in @JewishChron: scientists at UK universities are helping Iran develop its Shahed suicide drones, which Russia is using to terrorize Ukraine:
    https://twitter.com/michaeldweiss/status/1667142122695213057
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Roger said:

    Scott_xP said:

    How sleazy do you have to be to accept an "honour" from BoZo..?

    Michael Fabricant sounds like a Knight to remember....
    I always thought Fabricant would be a good person to intercede between William and Harry and lower the tensions between those on the royal line of succession.
    One look at Fabricant and you can't help but think: heir peace
    Nice set up....the question is, when the inevitable requirement for compensation arises, someone is bound to ask "who is toupee?"
    This needs an HYUFD judgement, as per his purity test last night, on whether Fabricant would have voted Tory in the 1842 general election.
    In 1841 under Peel yes Fabricant would have still been a Conservative but in 1832 when Wellington was Tory leader Fabricant would likely have been a Whig. Jacob Rees Mogg, Bill Cash and Edward Leigh would definitely have been Tories even in 1832 however
    Where would they have fallen during second baron's war?
    There were no political parties then, the first MPs were effectively all Independents
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,278
    Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg was always going to happen from the moment he was born wasn't it?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,860
    theakes said:

    The Lib Dems must be saying " We love Nadine". She has given the party a great chance whether the by election is held in July or October. If I were Central Office I would go for July, get it out of the way as quickly as possible, the sooner the Lib Dems win, the sooner the result will be forgotten.

    And the “help in the Mid Beds by-election” email from LibDem HQ has just landed…
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075

    Seems Johnson's father is not on list

    Oh dear. And he'd worked so hard too...

    :D
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Roger said:

    Scott_xP said:

    How sleazy do you have to be to accept an "honour" from BoZo..?

    Michael Fabricant sounds like a Knight to remember....
    I always thought Fabricant would be a good person to intercede between William and Harry and lower the tensions between those on the royal line of succession.
    One look at Fabricant and you can't help but think: heir peace
    Nice set up....the question is, when the inevitable requirement for compensation arises, someone is bound to ask "who is toupee?"
    This needs an HYUFD judgement, as per his purity test last night, on whether Fabricant would have voted Tory in the 1842 general election.
    In 1841 under Peel yes Fabricant would have still been a Conservative but in 1832 when Wellington was Tory leader Fabricant would likely have been a Whig. Jacob Rees Mogg, Bill Cash and Edward Leigh would definitely have been Tories even in 1832 however
    Where would they have fallen during second baron's war?
    There were no political parties then, the first MPs were effectively all Independents
    How strange of me not to have noticed.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,278
    I think Rishi has been a bit mean to Nadine.

    I thought she actually did a reasonable job as health minister during the pandemic and was one of the more sensible members of the government at that time.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,908

    As the civilised world stands agog at the disgrace that is the Boris dishonours list, BJO thinks "great people, far worthier to be the government than Keir Starmer"

    BJO has been a Boris fan since Brexit. I'd personally like to see SKS give up worrying about Corbyn's Leavers and start trying to win over more of the middle of the road Remainers many of whom are voting Lib Dem or even Tory. There are almost 70% pro remain votes out there. Far easier to attract than the fringe Corbynites in the Red Wall
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    I don't know if this is true, but it sounds plausible

    I recently got around to reading a biography of Sir Frank Whittle, who invented the jet engine. The entire thing was basically him begging for £1,000 from the Air Ministry for research and Whitehall saying it wasn't value for money. Eventually he just moved to America.
    https://twitter.com/yuanyi_z/status/1667155681491709952?cxt=HHwWgMCzyczQ9qIuAAAA
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,385
    HYUFD said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Roger said:

    Scott_xP said:

    How sleazy do you have to be to accept an "honour" from BoZo..?

    Michael Fabricant sounds like a Knight to remember....
    I always thought Fabricant would be a good person to intercede between William and Harry and lower the tensions between those on the royal line of succession.
    One look at Fabricant and you can't help but think: heir peace
    Nice set up....the question is, when the inevitable requirement for compensation arises, someone is bound to ask "who is toupee?"
    This needs an HYUFD judgement, as per his purity test last night, on whether Fabricant would have voted Tory in the 1842 general election.
    In 1841 under Peel yes Fabricant would have still been a Conservative but in 1832 when Wellington was Tory leader Fabricant would likely have been a Whig. Jacob Rees Mogg, Bill Cash and Edward Leigh would definitely have been Tories even in 1832 however
    They would all have been useless lying twats and a disgrace to national life whatever age they served in.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,385

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    Christ, Bill Cash is a Companion of Honour! TSE was right about the royals all along!

    That they are too close to cash? One poster won't be happy...

    (Incidentally, CH is of course a government recommendation.)
    I am certainly no recommendation of this Government
    You Batted that away nicely.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,385
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Roger said:

    Scott_xP said:

    How sleazy do you have to be to accept an "honour" from BoZo..?

    Michael Fabricant sounds like a Knight to remember....
    I always thought Fabricant would be a good person to intercede between William and Harry and lower the tensions between those on the royal line of succession.
    One look at Fabricant and you can't help but think: heir peace
    Nice set up....the question is, when the inevitable requirement for compensation arises, someone is bound to ask "who is toupee?"
    This needs an HYUFD judgement, as per his purity test last night, on whether Fabricant would have voted Tory in the 1842 general election.
    In 1841 under Peel yes Fabricant would have still been a Conservative but in 1832 when Wellington was Tory leader Fabricant would likely have been a Whig. Jacob Rees Mogg, Bill Cash and Edward Leigh would definitely have been Tories even in 1832 however
    Where would they have fallen during second baron's war?
    There were no political parties then, the first MPs were effectively all Independents
    How strange of me not to have noticed.
    You can remember the Second Barons' War? I've always wondered - was it true about the sack of Grantham?

    (Incidentally while Hyufd is correct there were no parties, there were occasional loose factions - for example, under Richard III there was a King's Party with Catesby as its organiser.)
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,860
    GIN1138 said:

    I think Rishi has been a bit mean to Nadine.

    I thought she actually did a reasonable job as health minister during the pandemic and was one of the more sensible members of the government at that time.

    Did things really get that bad?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    GIN1138 said:

    Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg was always going to happen from the moment he was born wasn't it?

    Jacob's wife's grandfather was an Earl, so a mere knighthood is a bit of a comedown for his family.

    Albeit an Earldoom would make it a bit more difficult for him to stay in the House of Commoners
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    kle4 said:

    I don't know if this is true, but it sounds plausible

    I recently got around to reading a biography of Sir Frank Whittle, who invented the jet engine. The entire thing was basically him begging for £1,000 from the Air Ministry for research and Whitehall saying it wasn't value for money. Eventually he just moved to America.
    https://twitter.com/yuanyi_z/status/1667155681491709952?cxt=HHwWgMCzyczQ9qIuAAAA

    Sounds like MOD procurement 101.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,291

    Poor Andrea Jenkyns. Gives us the finger and gets a Damehood. Had she done both middle fingers and perhaps "fuck you scrubbers" she'd have got a seat in the House of Lords.

    My biggest sin in life.

    Helping Andrea Jenkyns get elected.



    It was by some measure, and your (mild) penance, for I am a forgiving soul, will be another couple of best bubbles at our next working man’s convocation in September.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,385
    HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg was always going to happen from the moment he was born wasn't it?

    Jacob's wife's grandfather was an Earl, so a mere knighthood is a bit of a comedown for his family.

    Albeit an Earldoom would make it a bit more difficult for him to stay in the House of Commoners
    Would a new hereditary peerage count as a life peerage for Lords membership?

    I realise it's very unlikely to be an issue given no non-royal hereditary peerage has been created since 1984, but I was wondering.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,860
    IanB2 said:

    theakes said:

    The Lib Dems must be saying " We love Nadine". She has given the party a great chance whether the by election is held in July or October. If I were Central Office I would go for July, get it out of the way as quickly as possible, the sooner the Lib Dems win, the sooner the result will be forgotten.

    And the “help in the Mid Beds by-election” email from LibDem HQ has just landed…
    “just” is doing some heavy lifting in ” The Conservatives had a majority of just 24,664 here…”
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    NEW: Mitt Romney on Trump’s indictment-

    “Mr. Trump brought these charges upon himself by not only taking classified documents, but by refusing to simply return them when given numerous opportunities to do so.

    These allegations are serious and if proven, would be consistent with his other actions offensive to the national interest, such as withholding defensive weapons from Ukraine for political reasons and failing to defend the Capitol from violent attack and insurrection.”

    https://twitter.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1667182301069955076
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Roger said:

    Scott_xP said:

    How sleazy do you have to be to accept an "honour" from BoZo..?

    Michael Fabricant sounds like a Knight to remember....
    I always thought Fabricant would be a good person to intercede between William and Harry and lower the tensions between those on the royal line of succession.
    One look at Fabricant and you can't help but think: heir peace
    Nice set up....the question is, when the inevitable requirement for compensation arises, someone is bound to ask "who is toupee?"
    This needs an HYUFD judgement, as per his purity test last night, on whether Fabricant would have voted Tory in the 1842 general election.
    In 1841 under Peel yes Fabricant would have still been a Conservative but in 1832 when Wellington was Tory leader Fabricant would likely have been a Whig. Jacob Rees Mogg, Bill Cash and Edward Leigh would definitely have been Tories even in 1832 however
    Where would they have fallen during second baron's war?
    There were no political parties then, the first MPs were effectively all Independents
    How strange of me not to have noticed.
    You can remember the Second Barons' War? I've always wondered - was it true about the sack of Grantham?
    100%
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    theakes said:

    The Lib Dems must be saying " We love Nadine". She has given the party a great chance whether the by election is held in July or October. If I were Central Office I would go for July, get it out of the way as quickly as possible, the sooner the Lib Dems win, the sooner the result will be forgotten.

    And the “help in the Mid Beds by-election” email from LibDem HQ has just landed…
    “just” is doing some heavy lifting in ” The Conservatives had a majority of just 24,664 here…”
    Someone didn't amend the standard text enough!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Glenn Youngkin bravely joins the pro-document theft caucus.
    https://twitter.com/emptywheel/status/1667217185528266770
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075
    franklyn said:

    As this is a political betting site, can someone please help me?

    How do I put a bet on for the Mid Bedfordshire by election which will happen following Nadine Dories announcing that she is standing down with immediate effect?

    Thank you

    If you go to oddschecker, it lists markets available in British politics. When a market on Mid Beds is created, it will be listed there. British political betting tends to be split into two parts (three if you include spread betting, but I'm not covering that). They are:
    • fixed-odds betting (Ladrokes, Betfred, William Hill etc: high-street shops)
    • exchange betting (Betfair Exchange, Smarkets)
    In the former you bet with the bookie that something will happen. In the latter you bet with somebody else that something will or will not happen, and the bookie holds your money until it's done. In the former you can do it online or in person. Online requires ID, opening an account, depositing money, and has a bit of a time lag. In person requires going into a bookie's shop, filling out a very short piece of paper, and giving them money: it's instantaneous and no ID is required. If you win you get money back and some profit. If you lose, you get nothing.

    Would you like some more detail?


    https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,860
    ..
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited June 2023
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg was always going to happen from the moment he was born wasn't it?

    Jacob's wife's grandfather was an Earl, so a mere knighthood is a bit of a comedown for his family.

    Albeit an Earldoom would make it a bit more difficult for him to stay in the House of Commoners
    Would a new hereditary peerage count as a life peerage for Lords membership?

    I realise it's very unlikely to be an issue given no non-royal hereditary peerage has been created since 1984, but I was wondering.
    I don't think so as you say. Technically there are still hereditaries in the Lords elected by their peers from those Blair did not remove from the Lords in 1999 but they only exist for life.

    Now apart from the 90 or so hereditaries in the Lords it is really mostly a House of Commoners as much as the Commons is, life peers get their peerages supposedly on merit due to what they have done in their careers and their expertise, not from birth as most members of the Lords got their places for centuries (except for the Bishops).

    Indeed you can now get hereditary peers in the Commons too, Viscount Thurso the first hereditary peer ever to be elected and allowed to be elected as an MP in 2001 when he won Caithness and Sutherland for the LDs having lost his automatic place in the Lords in 1999
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075
    GIN1138 said:

    Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg was always going to happen from the moment he was born wasn't it?

    It's only a matter of time until "Lord Jacob Rees-Mogg", one fears.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,522
    edited June 2023
    FPT
    Chris said:

    Chris said:



    Being trans doesn't affect anyone else either, when it comes to pronouns etc, but does when it comes to safeguarding. When it comes to safeguarding, there needs to be a sensible balance of risk, that's what safeguarding is all about.

    I'm just curious. Can anyone point to a case where a criminal offence has been facilitated (in any practical way) by the perpetrator claiming to be trans?
    Yep Karen White

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/11/transgender-prisoner-who-sexually-assaulted-inmates-jailed-for-life

    Thanks. So that was a case of someone claiming to be trans being transferred to a women's prison and then sexually assaulting female prisoners.

    I wonder - are there any cases outside the prison system? As women's toilets loom so large in the online discussion, are there any cases involving women's toilets?
    I don't know. This was the obvious one but even then I spent 20 minutes or so checking because it is not always as it appears in the papers. This does appear to be a genuine case of someone using their trans status to get access to victims.

    There was also the case where a female patient was sexually assaulted on a women's ward by a trans patient and was told by the hospital it could not have happened because there were no men on the ward.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/17/hospital-told-police-patient-not-raped-alleged-attacker-transgender/

    I find the toilets example rather strange given that some places have mixed sex toilets. It seems to me that if someone is taking advantage of their trans status to commit assaults in toilets they could just as easily do it in mixed sex facilities whch have been around for decades.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    Ah, the internet

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,580
    Off-topic:

    The schedule is out for this year's Cambridge Shakespeare Festival:
    https://cambridgeshakespeare.com/programme/

    If you feel like watching Shakespeare outdoors, in areas the hoi polloi such as ourselves rarely get to see, and want to risk the great English summer weather, then it may just be for you.

    I've been many times, and always enjoyed it.

    "An evening at the Cambridge Shakespeare Festival is a unique experience. Prior to the performance, members of the audience can picnic in this idyllic setting, before sitting back to enjoy an evening of dynamic and highly visual theatre. The Festival prides itself on an artistic policy which strips away unnecessary theatrical artifice and gimmickry, and the Company exists to provide access for all to these marvellous works without assuming any prior knowledge of the author or the play in question.

    The productions themselves are vivid and spectacular, and are performed in full period costume with live Elizabethan music. Imperceptibly the evening passes from a glorious summer evening to dusk and then to night. The moon rises to provide additional lighting in a way that no theatre could match."
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,218
    Mientras...

    No podemos nunca mas.

    The Spanish far-left Podemos party, which rose to become one of the country’s great hopes for political change, has been forced to face up to its own final demise after agreeing to merge with another “progressive” movement.

    The party announced today that it will run in next month’s general election with the new Sumar movement led by Yolanda Díaz, a deputy prime minister and a communist.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/db003cd0-06da-11ee-b1f9-dbcd37af20fb?shareToken=32a1632348efec98526bacb33b832753

    This does make a difference- a united left list will pick up quite a few more seats than two separate lists.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075
    Shadsy (Smarkets) has got one up for Mid beds

    https://smarkets.com/listing/politics/uk/by-elections

    Who is the bookie in Ladbrokes since Shadsy left?
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,377
    edited June 2023
    Boris's honours list, for some reason, made me think of my long-gone teaching days. As in, it is what would happen if I had a typical exam class, rated them in terms of ability, and then reversed the list, with the prizes going to the bottom quartile.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,522
    Farooq said:

    I knew Mad Nad was going Lordswards
    I knew Labour have talked about getting rid of (or at least doing SOMETHING) about the Lords

    Until this moment I've not really held those two thoughts in my head at the same time.

    I might vote Labour.

    The party that proposed Tom Watson for a peerage.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    HYUFD said:

    theakes said:

    The Lib Dems must be saying " We love Nadine". She has given the party a great chance whether the by election is held in July or October. If I were Central Office I would go for July, get it out of the way as quickly as possible, the sooner the Lib Dems win, the sooner the result will be forgotten.

    Labour I would thought would be hoping to win it too, their opinion poll rating is about 5%+ higher than it was at the time of the Shopshire North by election in Dec 2021 and on current polls they would be just behind the Conservatives in Mid Bedfordshire.

    If Labour HQ put some effort in it as they didn't in North Shropshire or Chesham and Amersham and Tiverton and Honiton it could be a 3 way contest
    HYUFD you are being a naughty boy by trying to muddy the water. Good try but I don't think it will work.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    JohnO said:

    Poor Andrea Jenkyns. Gives us the finger and gets a Damehood. Had she done both middle fingers and perhaps "fuck you scrubbers" she'd have got a seat in the House of Lords.

    My biggest sin in life.

    Helping Andrea Jenkyns get elected.



    It was by some measure, and your (mild) penance, for I am a forgiving soul, will be another couple of best bubbles at our next working man’s convocation in September.
    Agreed on my penance.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    Boris's honours list, for some reason, made me think of my long-gone teaching days. As in, it is what would happen if I had a typical exam class, rated them in terms of ability, and then reversed the list, with the prizes going to the bottom quartile.

    Tough school you were teaching in, by the sound of it.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,625
    kinabalu said:

    Dame Andrea Jenkyns. I think this says it all. The only way is up, truly.

    At first I assumed it was Katherine Jenkins.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,706
    kle4 said:

    I don't know if Guido uploaded the proper version or managed to type it up, but if the former then it has the crappy formatting that you sometimes see in a rush job where someone was removed last minute and mucked up the headings and page alignment like so.

    It was reported yesterday that Guto Harri was downgraded from Knighthood to CBE as one of the last minute changes.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,253
    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    I don't know if this is true, but it sounds plausible

    I recently got around to reading a biography of Sir Frank Whittle, who invented the jet engine. The entire thing was basically him begging for £1,000 from the Air Ministry for research and Whitehall saying it wasn't value for money. Eventually he just moved to America.
    https://twitter.com/yuanyi_z/status/1667155681491709952?cxt=HHwWgMCzyczQ9qIuAAAA

    Sounds like MOD procurement 101.
    After the war he got £100,000 for developing the jet engine - though he’d been a serving officer all the way through. He had a breakdown from the effects of years of overwork, retired and became a roving consultant on jet engine MSV with BOAC.

    Like many bright pioneers his later ideas were a bit off. His ideas for the souped up W.2 to power the Miles 52 - sometimes described as an afterburner, but wasn’t really - didn’t work out.

    The reason the 52 was cancelled, incidentally, was that without the souped up W.2, it couldn’t accelerate in a climb. The reason for a climb was for total speed control by the pilot. Many aircraft had been lost to that date as a result of loss of control in high speed dives.

    The alternative of a rocket engine (which is what the Americans used) wasn’t available.

    When the managers of the project suggested that they change the flight profile of the 52 to diving through the sound barrier, the civil servants in charge of the funding stopped it on the grounds of the extreme danger to the pilot.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,218
    kinabalu said:

    Dame Andrea Jenkyns. I think this says it all. The only way is up, truly.

    "Andrea, can you show us which way is the only way?"



    Truly, there is nothing like a Dame.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    edited June 2023
    Italian special forces dealing with an incident where armed migrants have stormed the bridge of a Turkish ship off the coast of Naples.

    https://tg24.sky.it/cronaca/2023/06/09/nave-sequestrata-napoli-liberazione
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited June 2023
    Boris’s honours list is bad, but not as bad as it could be.
    If I were Alok Sharma, who by all accounts did well in the COP20 role before being sacked by Rishi “don’t give a fuck about green issues” Sunak, I’d be very pissed off.

    A damehood for Andrea Jenkyns is like something from a satirical novel about the decline of the Austro-Hungarian empire. And, if Nadine was prevented from a peerage, why no consolation prize for her?

    Of the peerages, the most egregious are Charlotte Owen, who is about 30, and now seems to have a job for life in the legislature for being Carrie Johnson’s BFF.

    And Ross Kempsell, 31, whose main claim to fame was digging up smut on the semi-pornographic blog, Guido Fawkes.

    At least the others have records - however feeble - of public service.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,522

    Johnson resignation list published

    Looks like Dorries has been left off

    Highlights:

    Boris Johnson's resignation honours list:

    Knighthoods:

    Conor Burns
    Simon Clarke
    Ben Elliot
    Michael Fabricant
    Will Lewis
    Jacob Rees Mogg

    Damehoods:

    Andrea Jenkyns
    Amanda Milling
    Priti Patel
    Ann Sindall
    Shelley Williams-Walker


    Peerages:

    Shaun Bailey
    Ben Gascoigne
    Ben Houchen
    Ross Kempsell
    Charlotte Owen
    Kulveer Ranger
    Dan Rosenfield

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1667202060683444228

    It's a bit lavender, isn't it?

    There's one for the teenagers.
    A great argument for the abolition of the ludicrously anachronistic and often arcane honours system.

    I will not change my mind on this. Ever. Well until that inevitable moment in the future of "Arise Sir Nigel"
    You think someone might Knight Farage? ;)
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    I continue to defend the House of Lords, although it’s becoming increasingly difficult to do so.

    The practice of having any PM involvement in peerages needs to be scrapped asap.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    The Mid Beds by election is quite interesting. Bets so far suggest Tories and LD in close competition.

    But, given we are not far from a GE, and Labour came second in MB, and Labour are expected to come first in the GE, why would not the momentum be with Labour (now about 7/1) rather than LDs.

    Labour face a tricky tactical issue. Would they really want to come a bad third from second place before, as in N Shropshire?

    My sense is that the Tories will win it. But early days.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011
    LORD Ben Houchen. FFS.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    “Dame” Andrea Jenkyns:

    In February 2020, Jenkyns defended her decision to provide a character reference for the court case of a Conservative Party activist who made violent threats to Labour MP Yvette Cooper and was subsequently jailed for nine weeks. The statement described the activist as a "decent and honest person whose heart is in the right place".
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496

    I continue to defend the House of Lords, although it’s becoming increasingly difficult to do so.

    The practice of having any PM involvement in peerages needs to be scrapped asap.

    Agree. Reform not abolish. An elected 2nd chamber would be awful. if you picked just the best 200 or so of the present lot it would be pretty good as an advising/revising/amending/reporting body.

    The good ones wouldn't stand for election.

  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,324
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    theakes said:

    The Lib Dems must be saying " We love Nadine". She has given the party a great chance whether the by election is held in July or October. If I were Central Office I would go for July, get it out of the way as quickly as possible, the sooner the Lib Dems win, the sooner the result will be forgotten.

    And the “help in the Mid Beds by-election” email from LibDem HQ has just landed…
    “just” is doing some heavy lifting in ” The Conservatives had a majority of just 24,664 here…”
    Indeed, but how extraordinary that the Billy Bunters are anticpating a close run thing.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    MikeL said:

    kle4 said:

    I don't know if Guido uploaded the proper version or managed to type it up, but if the former then it has the crappy formatting that you sometimes see in a rush job where someone was removed last minute and mucked up the headings and page alignment like so.

    It was reported yesterday that Guto Harri was downgraded from Knighthood to CBE as one of the last minute changes.
    Harri has been supportive of Boris but perhaps too indiscreet. Maybe this is punishment. The internal horsetrading revealed here is incredibly sordid.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,253
    edited June 2023

    I continue to defend the House of Lords, although it’s becoming increasingly difficult to do so.

    The practice of having any PM involvement in peerages needs to be scrapped asap.

    My plan - the 200 closest *illegitimate* descendants of Charles II, form the House of Bastards.

    Titles start complex and get simpler as you go up -

    Xth) The Right Honourable and Most Noble Bastard
    :
    2) Right Bastard
    1) Bastard
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,580

    “Dame” Andrea Jenkyns:

    In February 2020, Jenkyns defended her decision to provide a character reference for the court case of a Conservative Party activist who made violent threats to Labour MP Yvette Cooper and was subsequently jailed for nine weeks. The statement described the activist as a "decent and honest person whose heart is in the right place".

    Surely character witness statement can only be done about the person *you* know? If I knew someone who was a friend, and I had never seen done anything wrong, and acted normally, would I say so? I'd like to think so.

    We can only speak of people as we know them, not as they turn out to be.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    kinabalu said:

    Dame Andrea Jenkyns. I think this says it all. The only way is up, truly.

    "Andrea, can you show us which way is the only way?"



    Truly, there is nothing like a Dame.
    I actually found her response to that affair more dignified, in a way, than usual political twisting and distraction. In that she said she felt provoked, should have shown more composure, but was only human. Whilst rude in doing it that response was at least more honest and less theatrically outraged at being criticised than you often get.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153

    Johnson resignation list published

    Looks like Dorries has been left off

    Highlights:

    Boris Johnson's resignation honours list:

    Knighthoods:

    Conor Burns
    Simon Clarke
    Ben Elliot
    Michael Fabricant
    Will Lewis
    Jacob Rees Mogg

    Damehoods:

    Andrea Jenkyns
    Amanda Milling
    Priti Patel
    Ann Sindall
    Shelley Williams-Walker


    Peerages:

    Shaun Bailey
    Ben Gascoigne
    Ben Houchen
    Ross Kempsell
    Charlotte Owen
    Kulveer Ranger
    Dan Rosenfield

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1667202060683444228

    It's a bit lavender, isn't it?

    There's one for the teenagers.
    A great argument for the abolition of the ludicrously anachronistic and often arcane honours system.

    I will not change my mind on this. Ever. Well until that inevitable moment in the future of "Arise Sir Nigel"
    You think someone might Knight Farage? ;)
    Claire Fox, a woman who defended the IRA slaughtering innocent people, and who has refused to apologize for those comments, was given a peerage.

    I still find that utterly incomprehensible.

    Nigel Farage, by comparison, is a saint.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,580

    I continue to defend the House of Lords, although it’s becoming increasingly difficult to do so.

    The practice of having any PM involvement in peerages needs to be scrapped asap.

    I agree. But at least they're not as insidious as presidential pardons.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,278
    IanB2 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    I think Rishi has been a bit mean to Nadine.

    I thought she actually did a reasonable job as health minister during the pandemic and was one of the more sensible members of the government at that time.

    Did things really get that bad?
    Well in a word... yes! 😂
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited June 2023

    I continue to defend the House of Lords, although it’s becoming increasingly difficult to do so.

    The practice of having any PM involvement in peerages needs to be scrapped asap.

    I agree. But at least they're not as insidious as presidential pardons.
    How about neither.

    NZ maintains the honours system (Jacinda Ardern was just “Damed”) and it is entirely uncontroversial, at least in terms of who is recognized. The main recipients tends to be retired eye surgeons, notable (not just any) MPs, authors, painters, long-serving charity workers, and rugby players.

    We don’t have an Upper House (but the quid pro quo is that the electoral term is only 3 years).
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    Nigelb said:

    NEW: Mitt Romney on Trump’s indictment-

    “Mr. Trump brought these charges upon himself by not only taking classified documents, but by refusing to simply return them when given numerous opportunities to do so.

    These allegations are serious and if proven, would be consistent with his other actions offensive to the national interest, such as withholding defensive weapons from Ukraine for political reasons and failing to defend the Capitol from violent attack and insurrection.”

    https://twitter.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1667182301069955076

    He's a class act
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    theakes said:

    The Lib Dems must be saying " We love Nadine". She has given the party a great chance whether the by election is held in July or October. If I were Central Office I would go for July, get it out of the way as quickly as possible, the sooner the Lib Dems win, the sooner the result will be forgotten.

    And the “help in the Mid Beds by-election” email from LibDem HQ has just landed…
    “just” is doing some heavy lifting in ” The Conservatives had a majority of just 24,664 here…”
    I'm sure it will look wafer-thin when presented in graphical form.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,580
    rcs1000 said:

    Johnson resignation list published

    Looks like Dorries has been left off

    Highlights:

    Boris Johnson's resignation honours list:

    Knighthoods:

    Conor Burns
    Simon Clarke
    Ben Elliot
    Michael Fabricant
    Will Lewis
    Jacob Rees Mogg

    Damehoods:

    Andrea Jenkyns
    Amanda Milling
    Priti Patel
    Ann Sindall
    Shelley Williams-Walker


    Peerages:

    Shaun Bailey
    Ben Gascoigne
    Ben Houchen
    Ross Kempsell
    Charlotte Owen
    Kulveer Ranger
    Dan Rosenfield

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1667202060683444228

    It's a bit lavender, isn't it?

    There's one for the teenagers.
    A great argument for the abolition of the ludicrously anachronistic and often arcane honours system.

    I will not change my mind on this. Ever. Well until that inevitable moment in the future of "Arise Sir Nigel"
    You think someone might Knight Farage? ;)
    Claire Fox, a woman who defended the IRA slaughtering innocent people, and who has refused to apologize for those comments, was given a peerage.

    I still find that utterly incomprehensible.

    Nigel Farage, by comparison, is a saint.
    AFAIAA Farage is defending / excusing Russia's actions in Ukraine atm. The invasion was, apparently, the EU's fault.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-ukraine-russia-eu-b2022400.html

    In that light, I hope you rethink your comment.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153

    rcs1000 said:

    Johnson resignation list published

    Looks like Dorries has been left off

    Highlights:

    Boris Johnson's resignation honours list:

    Knighthoods:

    Conor Burns
    Simon Clarke
    Ben Elliot
    Michael Fabricant
    Will Lewis
    Jacob Rees Mogg

    Damehoods:

    Andrea Jenkyns
    Amanda Milling
    Priti Patel
    Ann Sindall
    Shelley Williams-Walker


    Peerages:

    Shaun Bailey
    Ben Gascoigne
    Ben Houchen
    Ross Kempsell
    Charlotte Owen
    Kulveer Ranger
    Dan Rosenfield

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1667202060683444228

    It's a bit lavender, isn't it?

    There's one for the teenagers.
    A great argument for the abolition of the ludicrously anachronistic and often arcane honours system.

    I will not change my mind on this. Ever. Well until that inevitable moment in the future of "Arise Sir Nigel"
    You think someone might Knight Farage? ;)
    Claire Fox, a woman who defended the IRA slaughtering innocent people, and who has refused to apologize for those comments, was given a peerage.

    I still find that utterly incomprehensible.

    Nigel Farage, by comparison, is a saint.
    AFAIAA Farage is defending / excusing Russia's actions in Ukraine atm. The invasion was, apparently, the EU's fault.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-ukraine-russia-eu-b2022400.html

    In that light, I hope you rethink your comment.
    OK. Farage is a shit for those views.

    But I'd still argue that is (very slightly) less odious than defending the murdering of children on British soil.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,894

    Boris’s honours list is bad, but not as bad as it could be.
    If I were Alok Sharma, who by all accounts did well in the COP20 role before being sacked by Rishi “don’t give a fuck about green issues” Sunak, I’d be very pissed off.

    A damehood for Andrea Jenkyns is like something from a satirical novel about the decline of the Austro-Hungarian empire. And, if Nadine was prevented from a peerage, why no consolation prize for her?

    Of the peerages, the most egregious are Charlotte Owen, who is about 30, and now seems to have a job for life in the legislature for being Carrie Johnson’s BFF.

    And Ross Kempsell, 31, whose main claim to fame was digging up smut on the semi-pornographic blog, Guido Fawkes.

    At least the others have records - however feeble - of public service.

    David Canzini is OBE'd for being Lynton Crosby's man in CCHQ.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    edited June 2023
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    NEW: Mitt Romney on Trump’s indictment-

    “Mr. Trump brought these charges upon himself by not only taking classified documents, but by refusing to simply return them when given numerous opportunities to do so.

    These allegations are serious and if proven, would be consistent with his other actions offensive to the national interest, such as withholding defensive weapons from Ukraine for political reasons and failing to defend the Capitol from violent attack and insurrection.”

    https://twitter.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1667182301069955076

    He's a class act
    Even unclassy people like Barr have been clear all Trump had to do was return the documents when asked. If this was a frame up it was the easiest one in the world to overcome by just, you know, handing the stuff back.

    "Aha, our cunning plan to nab him for illegally holding onto documents has failed because he said 'no problem, here you go'"
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    In other news...




    (Don't anyone tell Luckyguy)
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,580
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Johnson resignation list published

    Looks like Dorries has been left off

    Highlights:

    Boris Johnson's resignation honours list:

    Knighthoods:

    Conor Burns
    Simon Clarke
    Ben Elliot
    Michael Fabricant
    Will Lewis
    Jacob Rees Mogg

    Damehoods:

    Andrea Jenkyns
    Amanda Milling
    Priti Patel
    Ann Sindall
    Shelley Williams-Walker


    Peerages:

    Shaun Bailey
    Ben Gascoigne
    Ben Houchen
    Ross Kempsell
    Charlotte Owen
    Kulveer Ranger
    Dan Rosenfield

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1667202060683444228

    It's a bit lavender, isn't it?

    There's one for the teenagers.
    A great argument for the abolition of the ludicrously anachronistic and often arcane honours system.

    I will not change my mind on this. Ever. Well until that inevitable moment in the future of "Arise Sir Nigel"
    You think someone might Knight Farage? ;)
    Claire Fox, a woman who defended the IRA slaughtering innocent people, and who has refused to apologize for those comments, was given a peerage.

    I still find that utterly incomprehensible.

    Nigel Farage, by comparison, is a saint.
    AFAIAA Farage is defending / excusing Russia's actions in Ukraine atm. The invasion was, apparently, the EU's fault.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-ukraine-russia-eu-b2022400.html

    In that light, I hope you rethink your comment.
    OK. Farage is a shit for those views.

    But I'd still argue that is (very slightly) less odious than defending the murdering of children on British soil.
    He's excusing the murder of many Ukrainian children on Ukrainian soil. And the deportation of thousands of others, thousands of miles away from their families to the heart of holy Russia.

    Yes, British soil gives it an added edge. But I'd argue the current events are more immediate; and hence more important. People follow Farage. People worship Farage, including some on here, in the past. His views will sway the credulous much more than Fox did, as bad as her views were.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited June 2023
    2021 Conservative Mayoral Candidate and London Assembly member Shaun Bailey becomes Lord Shaun Bailey and will enter the House of Lords under Boris' resignation honours list.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65861936
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    edited June 2023
    Let's not forget the other implied defence of not prosecuting people even if they may have committed crimes - that other people might have done it but have not (yet) been charged as well.

    Because as we all know, unless you can charge and convict everyone who has committed a particular offence, it is unfair to charge anyone else with that crime. Some murderers get away with it, so why are people coming after me?

    It'd make more sense if people did stick to just claiming the party in question is innocent, since acquittal is always possible!

    This case might be the most worrying for Trump simply because I think his chaotic nature making proving intent so hard will not be as relevant.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034
    Good evening

    Why anyone is surprised at Johnson's honours list fails to recognise he couldn't care less if he upsets people, as long as his loyal followers are rewarded above their station

    I genuinely hope this is the last thing Johnson gets away with and the privilege committee deliver the coup de grace

    It seems Sunak submitted the original list to the House of Lords honours committee who amended it and Sunak has accepted the amended list

    I am not normally someone who delights in the downfall of someone, but Dories own actions today resulting in her immediate exit from the HOC and no promotion to the HOL has genuinely made my day

    As has Johnson's father's exclusion from the list

    To be honest the whole honours system needs revamping, and lets not forget as bad as this list is labour have just put Tom Watson in the HOL
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,580
    rcs1000 said:

    In other news...




    (Don't anyone tell Luckyguy)

    Apparently launch control still lies with Russia. It's like American nukes being at Greenham Common (in the past), or Turkey and Germany today.

    Because of the range and speed of the missiles, it actually makes little difference if they're a few hundred miles closer to their targets.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    Obviously we all know, including the tweeter, why the GOP candidates in particular are not taking the line suggested, but it is significant none of them are doing it even so. They could imply backing without bending over the Trump, but they know that would destroy them.


    RpsAgainstTrump: No one even expected you to attack Trump. But you could at least say that these allegations are serious, and you think that the government has the burden of proving its charges beyond a reasonable doubt.

    Your statement is pure garbage, and you know it. Shameful!


    NikkiHaley: This is not how justice should be pursued in our country.

    The American people are exhausted by the prosecutorial overreach, double standards, and vendetta politics.

    It’s time to move beyond the endless drama and distractions.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Johnson resignation list published

    Looks like Dorries has been left off

    Highlights:

    Boris Johnson's resignation honours list:

    Knighthoods:

    Conor Burns
    Simon Clarke
    Ben Elliot
    Michael Fabricant
    Will Lewis
    Jacob Rees Mogg

    Damehoods:

    Andrea Jenkyns
    Amanda Milling
    Priti Patel
    Ann Sindall
    Shelley Williams-Walker


    Peerages:

    Shaun Bailey
    Ben Gascoigne
    Ben Houchen
    Ross Kempsell
    Charlotte Owen
    Kulveer Ranger
    Dan Rosenfield

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1667202060683444228

    It's a bit lavender, isn't it?

    There's one for the teenagers.
    A great argument for the abolition of the ludicrously anachronistic and often arcane honours system.

    I will not change my mind on this. Ever. Well until that inevitable moment in the future of "Arise Sir Nigel"
    You think someone might Knight Farage? ;)
    Claire Fox, a woman who defended the IRA slaughtering innocent people, and who has refused to apologize for those comments, was given a peerage.

    I still find that utterly incomprehensible.

    Nigel Farage, by comparison, is a saint.
    AFAIAA Farage is defending / excusing Russia's actions in Ukraine atm. The invasion was, apparently, the EU's fault.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-ukraine-russia-eu-b2022400.html

    In that light, I hope you rethink your comment.
    OK. Farage is a shit for those views.

    But I'd still argue that is (very slightly) less odious than defending the murdering of children on British soil.
    He's excusing the murder of many Ukrainian children on Ukrainian soil. And the deportation of thousands of others, thousands of miles away from their families to the heart of holy Russia.

    Yes, British soil gives it an added edge. But I'd argue the current events are more immediate; and hence more important. People follow Farage. People worship Farage, including some on here, in the past. His views will sway the credulous much more than Fox did, as bad as her views were.
    You make an excellent point. And I retract the last part of my comment.

    Claire Fox is still a shit, mind.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Tom Watson doesn’t get a lot of love on here.
    But he was, for a decent time, Deputy Leader of the Opposition, and an MP for 20 years.

    Wikipedia barely mentions his involvement in Operation Midland.

    The whataboutery doesn’t seem proportionate, although of course it is coming from the usual suspects.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    This will be fun, given the appeals court in that district had to slap down Judge Cannon for some bizarre reasoning about this very matter when Trump was trying to get the documents back after seizure.

    Judge Aileen Cannon, a Trump appointee, initially assigned to oversee his case

    https://twitter.com/Morning_Joe/status/1667162424615510017?cxt=HHwWgoCx4YzZ-aIuAAAA
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153

    rcs1000 said:

    In other news...




    (Don't anyone tell Luckyguy)

    Apparently launch control still lies with Russia. It's like American nukes being at Greenham Common (in the past), or Turkey and Germany today.

    Because of the range and speed of the missiles, it actually makes little difference if they're a few hundred miles closer to their targets.
    It makes no difference at all. It's just Putin's way of reminded us all that he has nuclear weapons.

    Which we all already knew.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    Absolutely extraordinary details regarding the list of indictments against Trump .

    #Trump is a traitor to the USA.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034

    Tom Watson doesn’t get a lot of love on here.
    But he was, for a decent time, Deputy Leader of the Opposition, and an MP for 20 years.

    Wikipedia barely mentions his involvement in Operation Midland.

    The whataboutery doesn’t seem proportionate, although of course it is coming from the usual suspects.

    He destroyed the lives of honest people and for anyone to give him a pass is just wrong
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    Some of those Trump details..ugh.. hard to argue he’s a true patriot, surely? Though I’m sure some will try
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,324
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    In other news...




    (Don't anyone tell Luckyguy)

    Apparently launch control still lies with Russia. It's like American nukes being at Greenham Common (in the past), or Turkey and Germany today.

    Because of the range and speed of the missiles, it actually makes little difference if they're a few hundred miles closer to their targets.
    It makes no difference at all. It's just Putin's way of reminded us all that he has nuclear weapons.

    Which we all already knew.
    It actually helps because there is a finite chance the troops conveying them will get lost and they will end up being confiscated at the Polish border.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited June 2023
    kle4 said:

    Obviously we all know, including the tweeter, why the GOP candidates in particular are not taking the line suggested, but it is significant none of them are doing it even so. They could imply backing without bending over the Trump, but they know that would destroy them.


    RpsAgainstTrump: No one even expected you to attack Trump. But you could at least say that these allegations are serious, and you think that the government has the burden of proving its charges beyond a reasonable doubt.

    Your statement is pure garbage, and you know it. Shameful!


    NikkiHaley: This is not how justice should be pursued in our country.

    The American people are exhausted by the prosecutorial overreach, double standards, and vendetta politics.

    It’s time to move beyond the endless drama and distractions.

    Pence however was a bit more measured saying 'he is deeply troubled...but no one is above the law.'

    Now while not as big a condemnation of Trump as Romney's, it is much less supportive a statement for Trump than DeSantis and Haley or Speaker McCarthy have given
    https://www.politico.com/news/2023/06/09/trump-indictment-reaction-pence-00101235
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    The indictment: Trump was PERSONALLY INVOLVED in packing boxes at the White House — and in early 2021 had some classified documents stored on a ballroom stage, then stored in a bathroom and a shower.

    https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1667232235294957583?s=46
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    Tom Watson doesn’t get a lot of love on here.
    But he was, for a decent time, Deputy Leader of the Opposition, and an MP for 20 years.

    Wikipedia barely mentions his involvement in Operation Midland.

    The whataboutery doesn’t seem proportionate, although of course it is coming from the usual suspects.

    He destroyed the lives of honest people and for anyone to give him a pass is just wrong
    The question is whether your constant invocation of his name is supposed to make us forgive or otherwise temper our condemnation of the utter sewer that is the Conservative Party.

    You know exactly what you’re doing which is why I keep calling you up on it.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    The indictment: Trump had documents about U.S. defense and weapons capabilities and U.S. nuclear programs.



    https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1667227605185994755?s=46
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    In other news...




    (Don't anyone tell Luckyguy)

    Apparently launch control still lies with Russia. It's like American nukes being at Greenham Common (in the past), or Turkey and Germany today.

    Because of the range and speed of the missiles, it actually makes little difference if they're a few hundred miles closer to their targets.
    It makes no difference at all. It's just Putin's way of reminded us all that he has nuclear weapons.

    Which we all already knew.
    The act of moving them about in any way is a means of escalating without actually taking further hostile action with the nukes themselves. The threats of using them were made too soon and too often to be effective, so any movement of materials will (he hopes) cause a bit more nerves.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    The indictment: Trump had documents about U.S. defense and weapons capabilities and U.S. nuclear programs.



    https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1667227605185994755?s=46

    One thing Trump should love about all this legal action is his name will be spelled out in all caps many times throughout.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,580

    Tom Watson doesn’t get a lot of love on here.
    But he was, for a decent time, Deputy Leader of the Opposition, and an MP for 20 years.

    Wikipedia barely mentions his involvement in Operation Midland.

    The whataboutery doesn’t seem proportionate, although of course it is coming from the usual suspects.

    He destroyed the lives of honest people and for anyone to give him a pass is just wrong
    I despise Tom Watson. I mean, is there a word for deeper detestation than 'despise' ?

    Watson used child abuse as a political tool, and sullied the names of innocent men.

    He should be in jail.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    @andreajenkyns
    I am deeply honoured to have been awarded a Damehood (DBE) for public and political services, having been nominated by our Nation's greatest Prime Minister since Margaret Thatcher, the Rt Hon.
    @BorisJohnson, it was an honour to serve in his Government as a Minister & a Whip
    https://twitter.com/andreajenkyns/status/1667205083052777472?s=20
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    I won't show the whole thing, but sometimes Trump reveals he is just absolutely ignorant, and that might even save him in some cases, but othertimes he does know what he is doing in a way which undermines his later defences

    To whit, the following, which on its face seems to indicate he has more awareness of declassification proedures than his 'I can do it all with my mind' claims later would suggest.

  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034

    Tom Watson doesn’t get a lot of love on here.
    But he was, for a decent time, Deputy Leader of the Opposition, and an MP for 20 years.

    Wikipedia barely mentions his involvement in Operation Midland.

    The whataboutery doesn’t seem proportionate, although of course it is coming from the usual suspects.

    He destroyed the lives of honest people and for anyone to give him a pass is just wrong
    I despise Tom Watson. I mean, is there a word for deeper detestation than 'despise' ?

    Watson used child abuse as a political tool, and sullied the names of innocent men.

    He should be in jail.
    And yet @Gardenwalker attempts to minimise his involvement in the destruction of these lives
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,580

    The indictment: Trump had documents about U.S. defense and weapons capabilities and U.S. nuclear programs.



    https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1667227605185994755?s=46

    These do seem to be the crown jewels of secrets: not just the capabilities of the US and its allies, but the planned responses to attack as well.
This discussion has been closed.