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Hey Siri, show me what ‘hoist with his own petard’ looks like – politicalbetting.com

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  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714
    John Rentoul
    @JohnRentoul
    ·
    49s
    Replying to
    @JohnRentoul
    and
    @NadineDorries
    Applying the average swings in N Shropshire and Tiverton to Mid Beds produces a come-from-3rd-place Lib Dem win
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310

    Johnson resignation list published

    Looks like Dorries has been left off

    Highlights:

    Boris Johnson's resignation honours list:

    Knighthoods:

    Conor Burns
    Simon Clarke
    Ben Elliot
    Michael Fabricant
    Will Lewis
    Jacob Rees Mogg

    Damehoods:

    Andrea Jenkyns
    Amanda Milling
    Priti Patel
    Ann Sindall
    Shelley Williams-Walker


    Peerages:

    Shaun Bailey
    Ben Gascoigne
    Ben Houchen
    Ross Kempsell
    Charlotte Owen
    Kulveer Ranger
    Dan Rosenfield

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1667202060683444228

    It's a bit lavender, isn't it?

    There's one for the teenagers.
    A great argument for the abolition of the ludicrously anachronistic and often arcane honours system.

    I will not change my mind on this. Ever. Well until that inevitable moment in the future of "Arise Sir Nigel"
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    148grss said:

    For those saying Mid Beds is an easy Tory win atm, this puts it within the margin of error.

    https://twitter.com/leftiestats/status/1667185581380493312?s=46&t=16Vx1hkPdKeRguANzrOtZQ

    Is Voter ID going to be mandatory in the bye election? With some evidence suggesting it has hurt the Tories just as much as Labour, I could imagine an enthusiasm gap for those who go to vote without ID on them and then not coming back depending on party…

    It's the sort of seat that should always be safe, but for the very nadir of a government. We might not be at the nadir but we're not very far off from it, making anything possible.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310

    Sky

    Dorries - parting shot to Sunak over the honours list

    Something significant has changed my mind

    I do hope Sunak doesn't allow her ennoblement. She is the female personification (where Johnson is the male) of how Johnson and his populist supporters wrecked the Tory Party It is idiots like her that have doomed us to years and years of stifling public sector bloating wealth destroying Labour rule that is inevitable after the next GE.
    It would be a significant act by Sunak and hopefully the start of the end of Johnson influence
    We can but hope Big G!
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,033
    Seems Johnson's father is not on list
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,717

    Johnson resignation list published

    Looks like Dorries has been left off

    Highlights:

    Boris Johnson's resignation honours list:

    Knighthoods:

    Conor Burns
    Simon Clarke
    Ben Elliot
    Michael Fabricant
    Will Lewis
    Jacob Rees Mogg

    Damehoods:

    Andrea Jenkyns
    Amanda Milling
    Priti Patel
    Ann Sindall
    Shelley Williams-Walker


    Peerages:

    Shaun Bailey
    Ben Gascoigne
    Ben Houchen
    Ross Kempsell
    Charlotte Owen
    Kulveer Ranger
    Dan Rosenfield

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1667202060683444228

    It's a bit lavender, isn't it?

    There's one for the teenagers.
    A great argument for the abolition of the ludicrously anachronistic and often arcane honours system.

    I will not change my mind on this. Ever. Well until that inevitable moment in the future of "Arise Sir Nigel"
    They'll be taking a rise alright

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    I guess she's been told her peerage has been blocked:

    Nadine Dorries, five hours before she resigned, triggering a by-election
    [VIDEO]
    "The last thing I would want to do is cause a by election in my constituency"

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1667184705601519622?s=20

    If it has really gone down like that, a sudden decision out of pique, she truly is a very unserious figure.

    Shocking, I am sure.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310

    Greenwich is lovely!

    I do hope you are not having a mean time there.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    kle4 said:

    I guess she's been told her peerage has been blocked:

    Nadine Dorries, five hours before she resigned, triggering a by-election
    [VIDEO]
    "The last thing I would want to do is cause a by election in my constituency"

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1667184705601519622?s=20

    If it has really gone down like that, a sudden decision out of pique, she truly is a very unserious figure.

    Shocking, I am sure.
    It's the best thing she has done in her entire career
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,580

    Brutal.


    Ha. Good for my local MP.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,835
    edited June 2023

    Greenwich is lovely!

    I do hope you are not having a mean time there.
    A very kind observation. But perhaps CHB is only in transit.

    I have a soft spot for the old Woolwich Dodkyard myself - sort of bits and pieces in between, and poking out from under, trading estates and council flats.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,033
    Sunak seems to have accepted the House of Lords amended list from them
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310

    Seems Johnson's father is not on list

    He has been offered the title "King"
  • sbjme19sbjme19 Posts: 194
    Oh OK she resigned in a pet because she wasn't ennobled. Yuck making list by the way but no surprises.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,835

    Boris Johnson's resignation honours list:

    Knighthoods:

    Conor Burns
    Simon Clarke
    Ben Elliot
    Michael Fabricant
    Will Lewis
    Jacob Rees Mogg

    Damehoods:

    Andrea Jenkyns
    Amanda Milling
    Priti Patel
    Ann Sindall
    Shelley Williams-Walker


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1667202060683444228?s=20

    As Noel Coward remarked after WWII when the Nazi Occupation execution list was found "To think, the people we'd have been seen dead with".

    No artists, writers, musicians ...? (Apart from the wrong kind of artist, obvs.)
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    Carnyx said:

    Greenwich is lovely!

    I do hope you are not having a mean time there.
    A very kind observation. But perhaps CHB is only in transit.

    I have a soft spot for the old Woolwich Dodkyard myself - sort of bits and pieces in between, and poking out from under, trading estates and council flats.
    I think I'll give you some latitude on that remark
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,908
    Johnson's humourous list........

    Gongs for Patel and Rees- Mogg
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited June 2023
    Taking it well:

    Already incoming over Boris Johnson's resignation honours list

    Former loyal Johnson aide:

    ‘It’s a disgrace. It’s rewards for failure all round. Boris has slammed the door shut on the prospect of return to frontline British politics and trashed what remained of his legacy'


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1667202544945201152?s=20

    Although I'm not sure where he'd have found "rewards for success"...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,835
    sbjme19 said:

    Oh OK she resigned in a pet because she wasn't ennobled. Yuck making list by the way but no surprises.

    Saves losing your redundo when you get the sack from the voters?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited June 2023
    Artist said:

    Ladbrokes- Mid Bedfordshire
    LD 4/5
    Tories 11/8
    Labour 7/1

    Electoral Calculus has Mid Bedfordshire a Con hold on an average of current polls:

    Full figures
    Cons 38%
    Lab 36.6%
    LD 10.7%
    Green 7.1%
    RefUK 5.6%
    Others 2%
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/seatdetails.py?seat=Bedfordshire+Mid

    So the Conservatives should narrowly hold the seat in the by election but Labour are by far their closest opponents and could take it with a good campaign.

    If the LDs also target it however that could ensure a Conservative hold even on a low voteshare as the opposition vote is split. Albeit the LDs did take Shropshire North from 3rd in a similar position when Labour weren't polling as well as they are now
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    Johnson resignation list published

    Looks like Dorries has been left off

    Highlights:

    Boris Johnson's resignation honours list:

    Knighthoods:

    Conor Burns
    Simon Clarke
    Ben Elliot
    Michael Fabricant
    Will Lewis
    Jacob Rees Mogg

    Damehoods:

    Andrea Jenkyns
    Amanda Milling
    Priti Patel
    Ann Sindall
    Shelley Williams-Walker


    Peerages:

    Shaun Bailey
    Ben Gascoigne
    Ben Houchen
    Ross Kempsell
    Charlotte Owen
    Kulveer Ranger
    Dan Rosenfield

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1667202060683444228

    It's a bit lavender, isn't it?

    There's one for the teenagers.
    A great argument for the abolition of the ludicrously anachronistic and often arcane honours system.

    I will not change my mind on this. Ever. Well until that inevitable moment in the future of "Arise Sir Nigel"
    There are some quick reforms which could mitigate the worst aspects of it, if people did not want to simply abolish. I won't bang on about all of them again, though I would bring up attendance requirements, upper limit on chamber size, restrictions on those holding political office, and prohibition on anyone who has made any donation to a political party over a very small amount within a period of a full parlimentary term prior to appointment.

    I'm less fussed about gongs, since those are just baubles, though it's still often dodgy.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,218
    sbjme19 said:

    Oh OK she resigned in a pet because she wasn't ennobled. Yuck making list by the way but no surprises.

    Given some of those who have been enobled, she has half a point.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    Farooq said:

    Greenwich is lovely!

    I think it's sort of middling
    It has a degree of that about it
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,835

    Nadine neither in the Lords nor the Commons. That's a true win-win by any standards.

    Editing the DT? I suspect that vacancy will come up very soon.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,523
    kle4 said:

    148grss said:

    For those saying Mid Beds is an easy Tory win atm, this puts it within the margin of error.

    https://twitter.com/leftiestats/status/1667185581380493312?s=46&t=16Vx1hkPdKeRguANzrOtZQ

    Is Voter ID going to be mandatory in the bye election? With some evidence suggesting it has hurt the Tories just as much as Labour, I could imagine an enthusiasm gap for those who go to vote without ID on them and then not coming back depending on party…

    It's the sort of seat that should always be safe, but for the very nadir of a government. We might not be at the nadir but we're not very far off from it, making anything possible.
    It's a good test of the unofficial arrangement that Labour and LibDems don't campaign hard in seats where the other was second. Labour will certainly use that poll as well as the result last time, but if the LibDems do their "only we can win here" thing (despite not really having a shot from 12%) then there will be enough confusion for the Tories to hold it.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,033

    Taking it well:

    Already incoming over Boris Johnson's resignation honours list

    Former loyal Johnson aide:

    ‘It’s a disgrace. It’s rewards for failure all round. Boris has slammed the door shut on the prospect of return to frontline British politics and trashed what remained of his legacy'


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1667202544945201152?s=20

    Although I'm not sure where he'd have found "rewards for success"...

    Let us hope this is the start of the move away from Johnson, and to a more one nation conservative party which may take a long time probably in opposition
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,908
    No man's ever going to put his hand up your dress looking for a library card......

    65,000 jokes being revealed at the Joan Rivers museum
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    Taking it well:

    Already incoming over Boris Johnson's resignation honours list

    Former loyal Johnson aide:

    ‘It’s a disgrace. It’s rewards for failure all round. Boris has slammed the door shut on the prospect of return to frontline British politics and trashed what remained of his legacy'


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1667202544945201152?s=20

    Although I'm not sure where he'd have found "rewards for success"...

    I'm in two minds about PM resignation honours. If you allow them, then they will hand out gongs to friends and lickspittles, and if you remove the ability to give peerages then that is of limited harm though still grubby - but they have no pardon power like some elected leaders resigning, so maybe you allow something.

    But it has not always been done, and personally I don't think they should be able to do it.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370
    That peerage for Ben Houchen is going to come out really sleazy as the Teesworks profiteering becomes public knowledge.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    Roger said:

    Johnson's humourous list........

    Gongs for Patel and Rees- Mogg

    SJRM fans please explain?
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    kle4 said:

    Tactical error from Dorries if this is becasue she's left off. She could claim ideological basis for criticism before or because of being truthful about the leadership's failings, but a sudden quitting makes anything she'll now say as being personal.

    It's really weird. I mean, I guess it *could* be some sort of 4D chess from Nads, but I don't really see what she gets out of this. Nor is it good for the Tories - even a slim win will not look great in a seat that ought to be as safe as houses. But it just looks like she's flouncing in a strop at not getting her peerage. Actually quite funny, really.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    How sleazy do you have to be to accept an "honour" from BoZo..?
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,717

    Taking it well:

    Already incoming over Boris Johnson's resignation honours list

    Former loyal Johnson aide:

    ‘It’s a disgrace. It’s rewards for failure all round. Boris has slammed the door shut on the prospect of return to frontline British politics and trashed what remained of his legacy'


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1667202544945201152?s=20

    Although I'm not sure where he'd have found "rewards for success"...

    Let us hope this is the start of the move away from Johnson, and to a more one nation conservative party which may take a long time probably in opposition
    We are already led by a one-nation tory.
    … or rather, one Asian tory

  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,706
    What really matters are the Peerages - the right to vote on laws for life plus some cash for doing nothing.

    Getting to put Sir or Dame in front of your name may well be jolly nice but ultimately isn't worth anything.

    So Boris is making seven new Peers - haven't checked previous PMs but doesn't sound way out of line.

    Con currently has four more peers than Lab + LD combined. So this will take that lead up to 11.

    So Con can still be easily outvoted if most Crossbenchers support opposition - which they usually do on contentious legislation.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited June 2023
    148grss said:

    I have said before and will say again - the GOP persecution complex, along with establishment GOP defences of Trump, will mean this will make it more likely Trump will be the GOP nominee, not less. I would expect it to be worse for him in the general.

    Even "I'm here to talk truths to Trump about how he is unfit to be president" Chris Christie has not jumped on this, and has taken a "let's see where the evidence takes us" approach. Political leaders sometimes forget their ability to shape base perceptions; maybe the base will punish GOP politicians for calling out Trump, but if the party had a clear line they all shared denouncing him their would be less chance of punishment (not that it would necessarily mean they'd agree).

    At the end of the day, it might be better for the GOP establishment to let Trump be nominee again and go down to another defeat so they can move on longer term than try and block him if most of the base still stick with him
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,908
    Scott_xP said:

    How sleazy do you have to be to accept an "honour" from BoZo..?

    Michael Fabricant sounds like a Knight to remember....
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813
    edited June 2023
    Boris’ resignation list is a pile of yuk? Colour me surprised.

    Time to end the whole filthy system. Let’s properly get the Lords reformed, then let’s remove the power of the PM to hand out gongs - make it a genuinely independent cross party (with lay representation) process that goes straight up to the Palace once the proposals/vetting has been done.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Seems Johnson's father is not on list

    Maybe he'll not be overlooked in Johnson's next resignation honours list.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,717
    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    148grss said:

    I have said before and will say again - the GOP persecution complex, along with establishment GOP defences of Trump, will mean this will make it more likely Trump will be the GOP nominee, not less. I would expect it to be worse for him in the general.

    Even "I'm here to talk truths to Trump about how he is unfit to be president" Chris Christie has not jumped on this, and has taken a "let's see where the evidence takes us" approach. Political leaders sometimes forget their ability to shape base perceptions; maybe the base will punish GOP politicians for calling out Trump, but if the party had a clear line they all shared denouncing him their would be less chance of punishment (not that it would necessarily mean they'd agree).

    At the end of the day, it might be better for the GOP establishment to let Trump be nominee again and go down to another defeat so they can move on longer term than try and block him if most of the base still stick with him
    Most everyone's too polite to say it, but it would be better for the GOP if Trump suddenly died.
    I always thought it was dyed

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    edited June 2023

    kle4 said:

    148grss said:

    For those saying Mid Beds is an easy Tory win atm, this puts it within the margin of error.

    https://twitter.com/leftiestats/status/1667185581380493312?s=46&t=16Vx1hkPdKeRguANzrOtZQ

    Is Voter ID going to be mandatory in the bye election? With some evidence suggesting it has hurt the Tories just as much as Labour, I could imagine an enthusiasm gap for those who go to vote without ID on them and then not coming back depending on party…

    It's the sort of seat that should always be safe, but for the very nadir of a government. We might not be at the nadir but we're not very far off from it, making anything possible.
    It's a good test of the unofficial arrangement that Labour and LibDems don't campaign hard in seats where the other was second. Labour will certainly use that poll as well as the result last time, but if the LibDems do their "only we can win here" thing (despite not really having a shot from 12%) then there will be enough confusion for the Tories to hold it.
    Except the LDs clearly do have a shot from 12%.

    In Tiverton they were on 14.8 and Labour 19.5, versus the Tories on 60.2. It wasn't even close. In Mid-Bedforshire the proportions are 12.6 for LDs, 21.7 for Labour, and 59.8 for the Tories. So a bit higher for Labour but still comparable. In North Shropshire the LDs were even furtherback and on a mere 10%.

    I think in by-elections the arrangement is off, and the public have demonstrated they can tell who really has the best chance, whatever the past results.

    Yes, there is a risk of confusion meaning the Tories hold on, but past victories make it hard for Labour to claim 'only they can win' for themselves.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,785
    Carnyx said:

    Nadine neither in the Lords nor the Commons. That's a true win-win by any standards.

    Editing the DT? I suspect that vacancy will come up very soon.
    If she became editor of The Spectator that might get us a lot more amusement.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,908

    Taking it well:

    Already incoming over Boris Johnson's resignation honours list

    Former loyal Johnson aide:

    ‘It’s a disgrace. It’s rewards for failure all round. Boris has slammed the door shut on the prospect of return to frontline British politics and trashed what remained of his legacy'


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1667202544945201152?s=20

    Although I'm not sure where he'd have found "rewards for success"...

    Well all future leaders will now know how to get Steven Swinford on board ...nod nod wink wink...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    Ghedebrav said:

    kle4 said:

    Tactical error from Dorries if this is becasue she's left off. She could claim ideological basis for criticism before or because of being truthful about the leadership's failings, but a sudden quitting makes anything she'll now say as being personal.

    It's really weird. I mean, I guess it *could* be some sort of 4D chess from Nads, but I don't really see what she gets out of this. Nor is it good for the Tories - even a slim win will not look great in a seat that ought to be as safe as houses. But it just looks like she's flouncing in a strop at not getting her peerage. Actually quite funny, really.
    Even a delay of a few months would have been something.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    ohnotnow said:

    Carnyx said:

    Nadine neither in the Lords nor the Commons. That's a true win-win by any standards.

    Editing the DT? I suspect that vacancy will come up very soon.
    If she became editor of The Spectator that might get us a lot more amusement.
    GBeebies rentagob seems more likely.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,900

    Johnson resignation list published

    Looks like Dorries has been left off

    Highlights:

    Boris Johnson's resignation honours list:

    Knighthoods:

    Conor Burns
    Simon Clarke
    Ben Elliot
    Michael Fabricant
    Will Lewis
    Jacob Rees Mogg

    Damehoods:

    Andrea Jenkyns
    Amanda Milling
    Priti Patel
    Ann Sindall
    Shelley Williams-Walker


    Peerages:

    Shaun Bailey
    Ben Gascoigne
    Ben Houchen
    Ross Kempsell
    Charlotte Owen
    Kulveer Ranger
    Dan Rosenfield

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1667202060683444228

    It's a bit lavender, isn't it?

    There's one for the teenagers.
    Lord Houchen of Del Boy.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    HYUFD said:

    148grss said:

    I have said before and will say again - the GOP persecution complex, along with establishment GOP defences of Trump, will mean this will make it more likely Trump will be the GOP nominee, not less. I would expect it to be worse for him in the general.

    Even "I'm here to talk truths to Trump about how he is unfit to be president" Chris Christie has not jumped on this, and has taken a "let's see where the evidence takes us" approach. Political leaders sometimes forget their ability to shape base perceptions; maybe the base will punish GOP politicians for calling out Trump, but if the party had a clear line they all shared denouncing him their would be less chance of punishment (not that it would necessarily mean they'd agree).

    At the end of the day, it might be better for the GOP establishment to let Trump be nominee again and go down to another defeat so they can move on longer term than try and block him if most of the base still stick with him
    The problem with that tactic, which is what they are clearly going for (barring Christie, even with not jumping on this issue), is it didn't work last time so why would it work again?

    I think the point that true leaders help shape perceptions is a good one, they could at least try - it's notable that they have been far more bootlicking on this one, despite it being a stronger case than the other, showing some of them felt under threat for not being 'loyal' enough, even those running against the man.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    edited June 2023
    eek said:

    That peerage for Ben Houchen is going to come out really sleazy as the Teesworks profiteering becomes public knowledge.

    It also means he's got no future in national politics despite being only 36 and being lionised for his stonking win only a few years ago.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    Farooq said:

    Roger said:

    Scott_xP said:

    How sleazy do you have to be to accept an "honour" from BoZo..?

    Michael Fabricant sounds like a Knight to remember....
    I always thought Fabricant would be a good person to intercede between William and Harry and lower the tensions between those on the royal line of succession.
    I always imagined he was Bozo's even more idiotic half brother. One of Stanley's secret love children. Perhaps Stanley donated the knighthood to him in the hope he might get a peerage when Sir Michael Fabricant becomes leader of the Conservative and Madfuckers Party?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,893

    Nadine neither in the Lords nor the Commons. That's a true win-win by any standards.

    I worry slightly that Nadine Dorries might have resigned for health reasons, so abrupt was it, and she does not seem to be hanging around to vote against banning Boris.
  • OldBasingOldBasing Posts: 173
    I suppose Mad Nads could hold out for Truss' resignation honours list?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,835

    Nadine neither in the Lords nor the Commons. That's a true win-win by any standards.

    I worry slightly that Nadine Dorries might have resigned for health reasons, so abrupt was it, and she does not seem to be hanging around to vote against banning Boris.
    OTOH it does correlate rather closely in time with her prospective ladyshipity going down the pan.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    NEW: Nadine Dorries is currently being kicked out of every Tory group chat there is


    https://twitter.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1667206822602702848?s=20
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Roger said:

    Scott_xP said:

    How sleazy do you have to be to accept an "honour" from BoZo..?

    Michael Fabricant sounds like a Knight to remember....
    I always thought Fabricant would be a good person to intercede between William and Harry and lower the tensions between those on the royal line of succession.
    One look at Fabricant and you can't help but think: heir peace
    Nice set up....the question is, when the inevitable requirement for compensation arises, someone is bound to ask "who is toupee?"
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    edited June 2023

    Nadine neither in the Lords nor the Commons. That's a true win-win by any standards.

    Well it's a win for those on the list that she isn't on it.

    And looking at those who are, also something of a win for her.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    148grss said:

    I have said before and will say again - the GOP persecution complex, along with establishment GOP defences of Trump, will mean this will make it more likely Trump will be the GOP nominee, not less. I would expect it to be worse for him in the general.

    Even "I'm here to talk truths to Trump about how he is unfit to be president" Chris Christie has not jumped on this, and has taken a "let's see where the evidence takes us" approach. Political leaders sometimes forget their ability to shape base perceptions; maybe the base will punish GOP politicians for calling out Trump, but if the party had a clear line they all shared denouncing him their would be less chance of punishment (not that it would necessarily mean they'd agree).

    At the end of the day, it might be better for the GOP establishment to let Trump be nominee again and go down to another defeat so they can move on longer term than try and block him if most of the base still stick with him
    The problem with that tactic, which is what they are clearly going for (barring Christie, even with not jumping on this issue), is it didn't work last time so why would it work again?

    I think the point that true leaders help shape perceptions is a good one, they could at least try - it's notable that they have been far more bootlicking on this one, despite it being a stronger case than the other, showing some of them felt under threat for not being 'loyal' enough, even those running against the man.
    There's also the issue that damage done now can be severe enough to cause major problems long term.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    edited June 2023
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    148grss said:

    I have said before and will say again - the GOP persecution complex, along with establishment GOP defences of Trump, will mean this will make it more likely Trump will be the GOP nominee, not less. I would expect it to be worse for him in the general.

    Even "I'm here to talk truths to Trump about how he is unfit to be president" Chris Christie has not jumped on this, and has taken a "let's see where the evidence takes us" approach. Political leaders sometimes forget their ability to shape base perceptions; maybe the base will punish GOP politicians for calling out Trump, but if the party had a clear line they all shared denouncing him their would be less chance of punishment (not that it would necessarily mean they'd agree).

    At the end of the day, it might be better for the GOP establishment to let Trump be nominee again and go down to another defeat so they can move on longer term than try and block him if most of the base still stick with him
    The problem with that tactic, which is what they are clearly going for (barring Christie, even with not jumping on this issue), is it didn't work last time so why would it work again?

    Asa Hutchinson has also said Trump should not run.
    I feel we should give credit where it's due, even if most people will not know who he is (Gov of Arkansas, former Congressman).
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,052
    edited June 2023

    Nadine neither in the Lords nor the Commons. That's a true win-win by any standards.

    I worry slightly that Nadine Dorries might have resigned for health reasons, so abrupt was it, and she does not seem to be hanging around to vote against banning Boris.
    I have a mental image of her saying “if you won’t allow the peerage I’ll just resign then” as a threat, and Rishi saying “no problem I’ll just ring the Chancellor and it’ll all be sorted”, with her being appointed to the necessary role before she could retract it.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,893
    Carnyx said:

    Nadine neither in the Lords nor the Commons. That's a true win-win by any standards.

    I worry slightly that Nadine Dorries might have resigned for health reasons, so abrupt was it, and she does not seem to be hanging around to vote against banning Boris.
    OTOH it does correlate rather closely in time with her prospective ladyshipity going down the pan.
    It does, and so could be a fit of pique, but if she is blaming Starmer then why not hang around to ask awkward PMQs, vote for Boris against the Privileges Committee recommendations, and collect a big cheque when losing her seat next year?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,835

    Nadine neither in the Lords nor the Commons. That's a true win-win by any standards.

    I worry slightly that Nadine Dorries might have resigned for health reasons, so abrupt was it, and she does not seem to be hanging around to vote against banning Boris.
    PS Admittedly a bit of a hint of tiredness with it all here - before and after versions of her tweet.

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1667184043308228616
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    148grss said:

    I have said before and will say again - the GOP persecution complex, along with establishment GOP defences of Trump, will mean this will make it more likely Trump will be the GOP nominee, not less. I would expect it to be worse for him in the general.

    Even "I'm here to talk truths to Trump about how he is unfit to be president" Chris Christie has not jumped on this, and has taken a "let's see where the evidence takes us" approach. Political leaders sometimes forget their ability to shape base perceptions; maybe the base will punish GOP politicians for calling out Trump, but if the party had a clear line they all shared denouncing him their would be less chance of punishment (not that it would necessarily mean they'd agree).

    At the end of the day, it might be better for the GOP establishment to let Trump be nominee again and go down to another defeat so they can move on longer term than try and block him if most of the base still stick with him
    The problem with that tactic, which is what they are clearly going for (barring Christie, even with not jumping on this issue), is it didn't work last time so why would it work again?

    Asa Hutchinson has also said Trump should not run.
    I feel we should give credit where it's due, even if most people will not know who he is.
    Blimey, I'd not even heard of him, so I assume he's an even bigger no hoper than Christie.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited June 2023
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    148grss said:

    I have said before and will say again - the GOP persecution complex, along with establishment GOP defences of Trump, will mean this will make it more likely Trump will be the GOP nominee, not less. I would expect it to be worse for him in the general.

    Even "I'm here to talk truths to Trump about how he is unfit to be president" Chris Christie has not jumped on this, and has taken a "let's see where the evidence takes us" approach. Political leaders sometimes forget their ability to shape base perceptions; maybe the base will punish GOP politicians for calling out Trump, but if the party had a clear line they all shared denouncing him their would be less chance of punishment (not that it would necessarily mean they'd agree).

    At the end of the day, it might be better for the GOP establishment to let Trump be nominee again and go down to another defeat so they can move on longer term than try and block him if most of the base still stick with him
    The problem with that tactic, which is what they are clearly going for (barring Christie, even with not jumping on this issue), is it didn't work last time so why would it work again?

    I think the point that true leaders help shape perceptions is a good one, they could at least try - it's notable that they have been far more bootlicking on this one, despite it being a stronger case than the other, showing some of them felt under threat for not being 'loyal' enough, even those running against the man.
    Last time in 2020 Biden won with 51%, based on the poll in the thread header Biden would win with 61% next year ie a landslide defeat on a Reagan, Nixon '72, LBJ '64 or FDR scale if Trump was charged and convicted of a serious crime and GOP nominee for President again. If that was the result, even the base would have to move on from Trump
  • theakestheakes Posts: 930
    The Lib Dems must be saying " We love Nadine". She has given the party a great chance whether the by election is held in July or October. If I were Central Office I would go for July, get it out of the way as quickly as possible, the sooner the Lib Dems win, the sooner the result will be forgotten.
  • franklynfranklyn Posts: 319
    As this is a political betting site, can someone please help me?

    How do I put a bet on for the Mid Bedfordshire by election which will happen following Nadine Dories announcing that she is standing down with immediate effect?

    Thank you
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,900

    Poor Andrea Jenkyns. Gives us the finger and gets a Damehood. Had she done both middle fingers and perhaps "fuck you scrubbers" she'd have got a seat in the House of Lords.

    My biggest sin in life.

    Helping Andrea Jenkyns get elected.



    She truly is no classy lady. But perhaps she is all woman.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,900
    "Ben Houchen’s regeneration project in Teesside is currently subject to a govt investigation re the governance, finance and value for money of the huge Teesworks regeneration project in Redcar."

    https://twitter.com/JenWilliams_FT/status/1667206987866619904
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    148grss said:

    I have said before and will say again - the GOP persecution complex, along with establishment GOP defences of Trump, will mean this will make it more likely Trump will be the GOP nominee, not less. I would expect it to be worse for him in the general.

    Even "I'm here to talk truths to Trump about how he is unfit to be president" Chris Christie has not jumped on this, and has taken a "let's see where the evidence takes us" approach. Political leaders sometimes forget their ability to shape base perceptions; maybe the base will punish GOP politicians for calling out Trump, but if the party had a clear line they all shared denouncing him their would be less chance of punishment (not that it would necessarily mean they'd agree).

    At the end of the day, it might be better for the GOP establishment to let Trump be nominee again and go down to another defeat so they can move on longer term than try and block him if most of the base still stick with him
    The problem with that tactic, which is what they are clearly going for (barring Christie, even with not jumping on this issue), is it didn't work last time so why would it work again?

    I think the point that true leaders help shape perceptions is a good one, they could at least try - it's notable that they have been far more bootlicking on this one, despite it being a stronger case than the other, showing some of them felt under threat for not being 'loyal' enough, even those running against the man.
    Last time Biden won with 51%, based on the poll in the thread header Biden would win with 61% ie a landslide defeat on a Reagan, Nixon '72, LBJ '64 or FDR scale if Trump was charged and convicted of a serious crime and GOP nominee for President again. If that was the result, even the base would have to move on from Trump
    I don't think he'll be convicted in time personally. And though that should be the result, they're clearly willing to accept a lot, even a loss, and still back him (which is odd in a country which hasn't really had leaders of the opposition).

    But I had left out that the damage done by acquiescing is also huge - suffering a Reagan style hit, if bleeding out to Senate seats in particular, could be worse than at least trying to resist.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,893
    franklyn said:

    As this is a political betting site, can someone please help me?

    How do I put a bet on for the Mid Bedfordshire by election which will happen following Nadine Dories announcing that she is standing down with immediate effect?

    Thank you

    Betfair and various bookmakers will probably open markets in the next day or two.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,385
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Roger said:

    Scott_xP said:

    How sleazy do you have to be to accept an "honour" from BoZo..?

    Michael Fabricant sounds like a Knight to remember....
    I always thought Fabricant would be a good person to intercede between William and Harry and lower the tensions between those on the royal line of succession.
    One look at Fabricant and you can't help but think: heir peace
    I normally find myself thinking 'stupid fabricating cu..'
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,900
    "Just been told that Shelley Williams-Walker, Boris Johnson’s former head of operations, is on the resignation honours list

    She was allegedly in charge of the music during a Downing Street party on the eve of the Duke of Edinburgh’s funeral & was jokingly named DJ SWW"

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1667190237078990850
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    edited June 2023
    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    148grss said:

    I have said before and will say again - the GOP persecution complex, along with establishment GOP defences of Trump, will mean this will make it more likely Trump will be the GOP nominee, not less. I would expect it to be worse for him in the general.

    Even "I'm here to talk truths to Trump about how he is unfit to be president" Chris Christie has not jumped on this, and has taken a "let's see where the evidence takes us" approach. Political leaders sometimes forget their ability to shape base perceptions; maybe the base will punish GOP politicians for calling out Trump, but if the party had a clear line they all shared denouncing him their would be less chance of punishment (not that it would necessarily mean they'd agree).

    At the end of the day, it might be better for the GOP establishment to let Trump be nominee again and go down to another defeat so they can move on longer term than try and block him if most of the base still stick with him
    The problem with that tactic, which is what they are clearly going for (barring Christie, even with not jumping on this issue), is it didn't work last time so why would it work again?

    Asa Hutchinson has also said Trump should not run.
    I feel we should give credit where it's due, even if most people will not know who he is.
    Blimey, I'd not even heard of him, so I assume he's an even bigger no hoper than Christie.
    I think Doug Burgum nabs that title.
    (33rd Governor of North Dakota, pop.780k)
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    The Tories were in trouble anyway, but all this god awful honours list does is re-emphasise just how crap and - dare I say it - corrupt this whole government is

    Rees-Mogg knighted makes me feel sick
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,900
    As the civilised world stands agog at the disgrace that is the Boris dishonours list, BJO thinks "great people, far worthier to be the government than Keir Starmer"
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,835
    ydoethur said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Roger said:

    Scott_xP said:

    How sleazy do you have to be to accept an "honour" from BoZo..?

    Michael Fabricant sounds like a Knight to remember....
    I always thought Fabricant would be a good person to intercede between William and Harry and lower the tensions between those on the royal line of succession.
    One look at Fabricant and you can't help but think: heir peace
    I normally find myself thinking 'stupid fabricating cu..'
    At least he is the first AI to be a K of something in the UK.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited June 2023
    theakes said:

    The Lib Dems must be saying " We love Nadine". She has given the party a great chance whether the by election is held in July or October. If I were Central Office I would go for July, get it out of the way as quickly as possible, the sooner the Lib Dems win, the sooner the result will be forgotten.

    Labour I would thought would be hoping to win it too, their opinion poll rating is about 5%+ higher than it was at the time of the Shopshire North by election in Dec 2021 and on current polls they would be just behind the Conservatives in Mid Bedfordshire.

    If Labour HQ put some effort in it as they didn't in North Shropshire or Chesham and Amersham and Tiverton and Honiton it could be a 3 way contest
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,385
    Australia well on the way here, even if that horror drop by Yadav (reminiscent of the infamous catches-that-weren't by Courtney Walsh and Wavell Hinds at Old Trafford and Headingley in 2000) didn't cost them much in the end.

    300 ahead, six in hand, two days left, even if there is the possibility of some weather this weekend, they should win from here very comfortably.

    @Northern_Al has just remortgaged his house and put everything on India.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    I see the co-chair of the Tory party Ben Elliot got a knighthood, continuing the trend of the co-chair responsible for bringing in the cash (the other co-chair being an MP) getting a knighthood. Nothing to see here.
    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    148grss said:

    I have said before and will say again - the GOP persecution complex, along with establishment GOP defences of Trump, will mean this will make it more likely Trump will be the GOP nominee, not less. I would expect it to be worse for him in the general.

    Even "I'm here to talk truths to Trump about how he is unfit to be president" Chris Christie has not jumped on this, and has taken a "let's see where the evidence takes us" approach. Political leaders sometimes forget their ability to shape base perceptions; maybe the base will punish GOP politicians for calling out Trump, but if the party had a clear line they all shared denouncing him their would be less chance of punishment (not that it would necessarily mean they'd agree).

    At the end of the day, it might be better for the GOP establishment to let Trump be nominee again and go down to another defeat so they can move on longer term than try and block him if most of the base still stick with him
    The problem with that tactic, which is what they are clearly going for (barring Christie, even with not jumping on this issue), is it didn't work last time so why would it work again?

    Asa Hutchinson has also said Trump should not run.
    I feel we should give credit where it's due, even if most people will not know who he is.
    Blimey, I'd not even heard of him, so I assume he's an even bigger no hoper than Christie.
    I think Doug Burgum nabs that title.
    I feel bad for him now, since having googled him he's at least a serving Governor yet I half thought you'd made him up.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    edited June 2023

    franklyn said:

    As this is a political betting site, can someone please help me?

    How do I put a bet on for the Mid Bedfordshire by election which will happen following Nadine Dories announcing that she is standing down with immediate effect?

    Thank you

    Betfair and various bookmakers will probably open markets in the next day or two.
    Ladbrokes have their market up.

    https://sports.ladbrokes.com/event/politics/uk/uk-politics/mid-bedfordshire-by-election/240430468/all-markets

    EDIT: Cons already shortened slightly
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,900

    The Tories were in trouble anyway, but all this god awful honours list does is re-emphasise just how crap and - dare I say it - corrupt this whole government is

    Rees-Mogg knighted makes me feel sick

    JRSexytimeM is such a cartoon character that he entertains me more than he annoys me. Do we know what flavour of gong he got? Something more exclusive? Or is he just a common or garden Knight Batchelor?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    The Tories were in trouble anyway, but all this god awful honours list does is re-emphasise just how crap and - dare I say it - corrupt this whole government is

    Rees-Mogg knighted makes me feel sick

    Eh, useless fossils often get knighthoods to compensate for not rising in the ranks. That he actually (very briefly) made it to a proper Cabinet post is far worse.
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    @CarlottaVance (part 2, post was very long)

    As for safeguarding issues around single sex spaces, I discussed that in the previous thread (and other past threads). As a policy, sex segregation is largely unenforceable without using self-ID and general safeguarding practice without being hugely invasive (something that is not really useful in a space like a refuge or a toilet), and those instances where examples of transpeople are brought up don’t really show an issue with transpeople as much as it does with individual people who commit sexual assault. Cismen are statistically more likely to commit sexual assault than ciswomen or transpeople, so the only real basis I can see for sex based segregation in, say, refuges would be to specifically deny cismen and anyone credibly accused of sexual assault / convicted of sexual assault and not sex segregation based on only allowing ciswomen. Again, I have posited the hypothetical of a lesbian woman who is beaten by a partner and seeks refuge in a woman’s only shelter - I would not expect that shelter to allow the woman accused of violence to be in the same space as their potential victim, so sex is already not the only or primary consideration.

    I have read the Cass review - it doesn’t say what most GCs argues it says. One of it’s main criticisms is the slowness at which children get treated for gender dysphoria and that treatment should not be only located in London but available in the regions - so the closing of the Tavistock centre was in part to spread treatment across the country to increase the speed at which patients are treated, not because they treat patients too quickly.

    I have not read the non peer reviewed books of individual GCs who do not specialise in the area of gender. All arguments I have read of theirs are pretty bad, including the idea that they are being denied platforms whilst regularly having columns printed in national newspapers. I accept the medical consensus that is shown out by the evidence of treatment outcomes, not political pressure.

    As I said last thread, I highly recommend the videos of Abigail Thorn of PhilosophyTube, discussing her experience of the NHS as a transwoman and the philosophy of social constructs, but I would also suggest the work of Mia Mulder, Katy Montgomerie and other transpeople who often have to learn more about their medical treatment and the administration of it than most cis doctors do because most cis doctors don’t know anything about the treatment. They also provide citations.
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    Oh bugger, part 1 didn’t seem to post and I didn’t save it… le sigh, cba to rewrite that all again and I need to make dinner…
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    Christ, Bill Cash is a Companion of Honour! TSE was right about the royals all along!
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,377
    ydoethur said:

    Australia well on the way here, even if that horror drop by Yadav (reminiscent of the infamous catches-that-weren't by Courtney Walsh and Wavell Hinds at Old Trafford and Headingley in 2000) didn't cost them much in the end.

    300 ahead, six in hand, two days left, even if there is the possibility of some weather this weekend, they should win from here very comfortably.

    @Northern_Al has just remortgaged his house and put everything on India.

    Ha, but not on this occasion. The draw (13/2) is slightly tempting though, if the Aussies are too cautious and leave India to chase 500 or so.
  • Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    148grss said:

    I have said before and will say again - the GOP persecution complex, along with establishment GOP defences of Trump, will mean this will make it more likely Trump will be the GOP nominee, not less. I would expect it to be worse for him in the general.

    Even "I'm here to talk truths to Trump about how he is unfit to be president" Chris Christie has not jumped on this, and has taken a "let's see where the evidence takes us" approach. Political leaders sometimes forget their ability to shape base perceptions; maybe the base will punish GOP politicians for calling out Trump, but if the party had a clear line they all shared denouncing him their would be less chance of punishment (not that it would necessarily mean they'd agree).

    At the end of the day, it might be better for the GOP establishment to let Trump be nominee again and go down to another defeat so they can move on longer term than try and block him if most of the base still stick with him
    The problem with that tactic, which is what they are clearly going for (barring Christie, even with not jumping on this issue), is it didn't work last time so why would it work again?

    Asa Hutchinson has also said Trump should not run.
    I feel we should give credit where it's due, even if most people will not know who he is.
    Blimey, I'd not even heard of him, so I assume he's an even bigger no hoper than Christie.
    I think Doug Burgum nabs that title.
    (33rd Governor of North Dakota, pop.780k)
    There are a billion reasons why Burgum, despite obviously not having a great chance, is more capable of competing than other rank outsiders.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,581
    Artist said:

    Ladbrokes- Mid Bedfordshire
    LD 4/5
    Tories 11/8
    Labour 7/1

    I've bet on a Tory win.
    But it won't stop me helping the LibDems in the by election.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    Another week ends with another shambles.
    18 more months of this malarkey.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,835
    Sun over the yardarm so an o/t which has just come up on the feed from the Sm,ithsonian - the rocket sled on display at the (new/future?) galleries in the Air and Space Museum in Wash DC. Pretty impressive braking using water troughs (I think)? Definitely one for @Dura_Ace .

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lNkgrtJZg8
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    The Tories were in trouble anyway, but all this god awful honours list does is re-emphasise just how crap and - dare I say it - corrupt this whole government is

    Rees-Mogg knighted makes me feel sick

    JRSexytimeM is such a cartoon character that he entertains me more than he annoys me. Do we know what flavour of gong he got? Something more exclusive? Or is he just a common or garden Knight Batchelor?
    Guido is actually among the better ones for linking and showing the documents referred to in a story - garden variety.

    https://order-order.com/2023/06/09/read-in-full-boriss-resignation-honours/
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    kle4 said:

    I see the co-chair of the Tory party Ben Elliot got a knighthood, continuing the trend of the co-chair responsible for bringing in the cash (the other co-chair being an MP) getting a knighthood. Nothing to see here.

    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    148grss said:

    I have said before and will say again - the GOP persecution complex, along with establishment GOP defences of Trump, will mean this will make it more likely Trump will be the GOP nominee, not less. I would expect it to be worse for him in the general.

    Even "I'm here to talk truths to Trump about how he is unfit to be president" Chris Christie has not jumped on this, and has taken a "let's see where the evidence takes us" approach. Political leaders sometimes forget their ability to shape base perceptions; maybe the base will punish GOP politicians for calling out Trump, but if the party had a clear line they all shared denouncing him their would be less chance of punishment (not that it would necessarily mean they'd agree).

    At the end of the day, it might be better for the GOP establishment to let Trump be nominee again and go down to another defeat so they can move on longer term than try and block him if most of the base still stick with him
    The problem with that tactic, which is what they are clearly going for (barring Christie, even with not jumping on this issue), is it didn't work last time so why would it work again?

    Asa Hutchinson has also said Trump should not run.
    I feel we should give credit where it's due, even if most people will not know who he is.
    Blimey, I'd not even heard of him, so I assume he's an even bigger no hoper than Christie.
    I think Doug Burgum nabs that title.
    I feel bad for him now, since having googled him he's at least a serving Governor yet I half thought you'd made him up.
    So did I, for a moment.
    (Thought he might be one of the minor roles in Fargo. He does look as though he ought to be.)
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Roger said:

    Scott_xP said:

    How sleazy do you have to be to accept an "honour" from BoZo..?

    Michael Fabricant sounds like a Knight to remember....
    I always thought Fabricant would be a good person to intercede between William and Harry and lower the tensions between those on the royal line of succession.
    One look at Fabricant and you can't help but think: heir peace
    Nice set up....the question is, when the inevitable requirement for compensation arises, someone is bound to ask "who is toupee?"
    This needs an HYUFD judgement, as per his purity test last night, on whether Fabricant would have voted Tory in the 1842 general election.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,385
    kle4 said:

    Christ, Bill Cash is a Companion of Honour! TSE was right about the royals all along!

    That they are too close to cash? One poster won't be happy...

    (Incidentally, CH is of course a government recommendation.)
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    Dame Andrea Jenkyns. I think this says it all. The only way is up, truly.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    People always overreact to honours when they are awarded, about who does not 'deserve' this or that, and how it shows a disgrace etc, but even though this example is no different the very nature of Boris being to escalate matters means it might get more traction this time.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    The Tories were in trouble anyway, but all this god awful honours list does is re-emphasise just how crap and - dare I say it - corrupt this whole government is

    Rees-Mogg knighted makes me feel sick

    JRSexytimeM is such a cartoon character that he entertains me more than he annoys me. Do we know what flavour of gong he got? Something more exclusive? Or is he just a common or garden Knight Batchelor?
    After his Commons bench pose, Knight Couchant.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,385
    edited June 2023
    dixiedean said:

    Another week ends with another shambles.
    18 more months of this malarkey.

    Are you referring to the government or was it a bad day at school?
This discussion has been closed.