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Rishi’s integrity problem – politicalbetting.com

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  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 6,015

    Michael Clarke was suggesting we give the Ukrainians all of the Storm Shadow missiles and who am I to disagree with him? Do we have one thousand in total?

    Demilitarising the UK to chuck stuff at Ukraine is disgracefully reckless.
    We're giving them to warriors fighting a war of survival

    Better that than them rotting in a warehouse here
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,813
    Westie said:

    Off-topic, and IQ is a complete load of cobblers (nice to see UCL have denamed Francis Galton) but this article is hilarious regardless:

    https://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland-lags-europe-in-iq-league-2470181

    Av IQ in Scotland is supposedly 5 points below av for London and SE England. ROFL!

    Where's @malcolmg when you need him?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Andy_JS said:

    Nigelb said:

    A useful lesson - for now.
    For how much longer is an open question.

    https://twitter.com/cwhowell123/status/1662501821133254656
    So I followed @GaryMarcus's suggestion and had my undergrad class use ChatGPT for a critical assignment. I had them all generate an essay using a prompt I gave them, and then their job was to "grade" it--look for hallucinated info and critique its analysis. *All 63* essays had hallucinated information. Fake quotes, fake sources, or real sources misunderstood and mischaracterized. Every single assignment. I was stunned--I figured the rate would be high, but not that high.

    The biggest takeaway from this was that the students all learned that it isn't fully reliable. Before doing it, many of them were under the impression it was always right. Their feedback largely focused on how shocked they were that it could mislead them. Probably 50% of them were unaware it could do this. All of them expressed fears and concerns about mental atrophy and the possibility for misinformation/fake news. One student was worried that their neural pathways formed from critical thinking would start to degrade or weaken...


    I flagged this up a couple of months ago IIRC, by pointing out how ChatGPT invented election result information. For example it said that George HW Bush carried D.C. in 1992 when in fact he won 9% of the vote.
    Yes. I flagged on here how I tried to do some research about the First vs Second Quartos of Romeo & Juliet and it got the basics wrong.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,843
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    RobD said:

    Reading is so close to London by train.

    Have I subscribed to train facts by mistake? :)
    What is the only Tube line to cross the Thames by bridge?
    The District
    Which bridge?
    Putney. Or Putney Bridge Station needs to be reported to trading standards.
    In my youth, 50 yrs ago I used to get off there and there was a lovely bakers where I could by fabulous rum baba's. I had one locally recently and it tasted vile, nothing like my original one.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,045
    .

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    RobD said:

    Reading is so close to London by train.

    Have I subscribed to train facts by mistake? :)
    What is the only Tube line to cross the Thames by bridge?
    The District
    Which bridge?
    Putney. Or Putney Bridge Station needs to be reported to trading standards.
    In my youth, 50 yrs ago I used to get off there and there was a lovely bakers where I could by fabulous rum baba's. I had one locally recently and it tasted vile, nothing like my original one.
    Not surprising after 50 years.

    Ah, my coat.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,972
    3rd Red Flag...
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    RobD said:

    Reading is so close to London by train.

    Have I subscribed to train facts by mistake? :)
    What is the only Tube line to cross the Thames by bridge?
    The District
    Which bridge?
    Putney. Or Putney Bridge Station needs to be reported to trading standards.
    Fulham Railway Bridge actually :)
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,806
    Westie said:

    Off-topic, and IQ is a complete load of cobblers (nice to see UCL have denamed Francis Galton) but this article is hilarious regardless:

    https://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland-lags-europe-in-iq-league-2470181

    Av IQ in Scotland is supposedly 5 points below av for London and SE England. ROFL!

    This quote from that article is hilarious:

    Gabriela and Monica Irimia, 23, the Romanian pop twins the Cheeky Girls, who live in Britain, said their homeland's poor ranking was an insult. Gabriela said: "Our father is head of the ambulance service in Romania. He's a doctor of medicine and extremely intelligent."
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    DougSeal said:

    Michael Clarke was suggesting we give the Ukrainians all of the Storm Shadow missiles and who am I to disagree with him? Do we have one thousand in total?

    Demilitarising the UK to chuck stuff at Ukraine is disgracefully reckless.
    I hope the suggestion was not to chuck the missiles at them.
    Silly hyperbole anyway.
    We could easily send a couple of hundred without compromising anything.

    And they’re to be replaced relatively soon, too.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Cruise/Anti-Ship_Weapon

  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779
    DougSeal said:

    RobD said:

    Reading is so close to London by train.

    Have I subscribed to train facts by mistake? :)
    What is the only Tube line to cross the Thames by bridge?
    The District
    What is the only river to cross a Tube line by aqueduct?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,424
    Andy_JS said:

    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Speaking of stations, this one slipped quietly under the radar:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reading_Green_Park_railway_station

    I was expecting Geoff Marshall to be a first day poster, but he wasn't last time I checked. Some TrainTubers did upload: I'll see if I can find some links.
    @Sunil_Prasannan FPT, here are some. Nothing from Geoff Marshall yet, which is worrying

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbyEorPsGbM
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpoYhP-Vl6Y
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYu3NhoEM5s
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9I6E7os8GRA
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDLoivhJxGg

    Maybe he does mostly London stuff?
    No, he travels all over the country. He was doing the new Inverness Airport station a few weeks ago.
    Plus his latest one was a bit worrying
    He's talked about mental health many times before, so I'm not too worried about it.
    Let's hope you're right.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,929
    Supreme Election Council declares Erdogan the winner but no word yet from Kilicdaroglu.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    Westie said:

    Off-topic, and IQ is a complete load of cobblers (nice to see UCL have denamed Francis Galton) but this article is hilarious regardless:

    https://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland-lags-europe-in-iq-league-2470181

    Av IQ in Scotland is supposedly 5 points below av for London and SE England. ROFL!

    This quote from that article is hilarious:

    Gabriela and Monica Irimia, 23, the Romanian pop twins the Cheeky Girls, who live in Britain, said their homeland's poor ranking was an insult. Gabriela said: "Our father is head of the ambulance service in Romania. He's a doctor of medicine and extremely intelligent."
    The weird thing is, Liberal defense attorneys are absolutely happy to cite IQ - as in "low IQ" - when it might help get an acquittal for their clients


    "While they did not dis­pute that their client fired the shot that killed Mr French, de­fense at­tor­neys ar­gued that, at the time of the killing, Ms De­cuir was in a “sickle cell cri­sis” and suf­fer­ing from opi­ate painkiller with­drawal.

    They added that Ms De­cuir had a low IQ, a “lack of adap­tive func­tion­ing” and suf­fers from stress and anx­i­ety. As a con­se­quence, they said, she did not act “con­sciously” when fir­ing the gun.

    She was “un­aware of what is go­ing on,” at­tor­ney Mark Iver­son told the jury, “She is mov­ing, but with­out con­scious thought.”"

    https://sfpublicsafety.news/mistrial-family-of-slain-twin-peaks-photographer-lament-jury-deadlock/?fbclid=IwAR2txPt2sSElpXVGaGIG32lpIDP9jSZXtipkRMCgDNtYQ_jLwceJO7FkxTk

    So, which is it, guys? Is IQ a thing or not? And if IQ is relevant in criminal matters, why is it not relevant elsewhere? If being a dumb low-IQ fuck can get you a lesser sentence in a murder trial, why should an entire nation not seek to import higher IQ people that won't do this?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    RobD said:

    Reading is so close to London by train.

    Have I subscribed to train facts by mistake? :)
    What is the only Tube line to cross the Thames by bridge?
    The District
    Which bridge?
    Putney. Or Putney Bridge Station needs to be reported to trading standards.
    And Kew Railway Bridge (I think it's called that).
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    Leon said:

    Westie said:

    Off-topic, and IQ is a complete load of cobblers (nice to see UCL have denamed Francis Galton) but this article is hilarious regardless:

    https://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland-lags-europe-in-iq-league-2470181

    Av IQ in Scotland is supposedly 5 points below av for London and SE England. ROFL!

    I am amazed Richard Lynn (a man I have chatted with) is still allowed to do this kind of IQ research. It is so UnWoke

    He is probably right about Scotland. The Empire has surely led to a degradation of local IQs, then Nationalism and the midges and the rain have drained it further, and Scotland is not - like some other parts of the UK - being replenished by immigration from high IQ countries

    London likely has the highest IQ in Europe
    They do say excessive gin lowers your IQ by around 20 points.
    This too is science.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Westie said:

    Off-topic, and IQ is a complete load of cobblers (nice to see UCL have denamed Francis Galton) but this article is hilarious regardless:

    https://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland-lags-europe-in-iq-league-2470181

    Av IQ in Scotland is supposedly 5 points below av for London and SE England. ROFL!

    I am amazed Richard Lynn (a man I have chatted with) is still allowed to do this kind of IQ research. It is so UnWoke

    He is probably right about Scotland. The Empire has surely led to a degradation of local IQs, then Nationalism and the midges and the rain have drained it further, and Scotland is not - like some other parts of the UK - being replenished by immigration from high IQ countries

    London likely has the highest IQ in Europe
    They do say excessive gin lowers your IQ by around 20 points.
    This too is science.
    It's good that you have given up. You were a week away from unreadability
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,780

    Michael Clarke was suggesting we give the Ukrainians all of the Storm Shadow missiles and who am I to disagree with him? Do we have one thousand in total?

    Demilitarising the UK to chuck stuff at Ukraine is disgracefully reckless.
    I thought it was Russia that was demilitarising itself by chucking stuff at the Ukrainians?
  • TresTres Posts: 2,724
    Chris said:

    DougSeal said:

    RobD said:

    Reading is so close to London by train.

    Have I subscribed to train facts by mistake? :)
    What is the only Tube line to cross the Thames by bridge?
    The District
    What is the only river to cross a Tube line by aqueduct?
    Westbourne at Sloane Square station, so District again (+ circle)
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,303
    Is Madrid the most right wing capital city in Europe?

    https://twitter.com/europeelects/status/1662912807933730823

    Spain (Madrid local election):

    Provisional results, 33.79% counted

    PP-EPP: 41%
    MM/VQ-G/EFA: 20%
    PSOE-S&D: 19%
    VOX-ECR: 9%
    Podemos/IU/AV-LEFT: 5%
    CS-RE: 3%
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,929
    Not seen this before.

    Comedian Zelensky making a joke about Erdogan (whilst wearing a Fez)

    https://twitter.com/MyLordBebo/status/1662893784890241024?s=20

    Not sure it translates too well.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    RobD said:

    Reading is so close to London by train.

    Have I subscribed to train facts by mistake? :)
    What is the only Tube line to cross the Thames by bridge?
    The District
    Which bridge?
    Putney. Or Putney Bridge Station needs to be reported to trading standards.
    Fulham Railway Bridge actually :)
    Don't forget Kew Railway Bridge a few miles upstream (District + Overground).
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,780
    edited May 2023
    Leon said:

    Westie said:

    Off-topic, and IQ is a complete load of cobblers (nice to see UCL have denamed Francis Galton) but this article is hilarious regardless:

    https://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland-lags-europe-in-iq-league-2470181

    Av IQ in Scotland is supposedly 5 points below av for London and SE England. ROFL!

    I am amazed Richard Lynn (a man I have chatted with) is still allowed to do this kind of IQ research. It is so UnWoke

    He is probably right about Scotland. The Empire has surely led to a degradation of local IQs, then Nationalism and the midges and the rain have drained it further, and Scotland is not - like some other parts of the UK - being replenished by immigration from high IQ countries

    London likely has the highest IQ in Europe
    No city which contains the officials of the Departments for Education, Tranpsort, and Health along with OFSTED, OFQUAL, RHUL and QMUL could hope to have a high average IQ or indeed an average IQ in triple digits unless every other individual there was a latter day Socrates.

    Not forgetting they can't even do basic arithmetic, apparently, so can't make cash purchases.

    That said, I am reminded the SLC is in Glasgow. That's got to be deleterious to Scotland.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156

    Not seen this before.

    Comedian Zelensky making a joke about Erdogan (whilst wearing a Fez)

    https://twitter.com/MyLordBebo/status/1662893784890241024?s=20

    Not sure it translates too well.

    Wearing a fez? "Just like that!"
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    Is Madrid the most right wing capital city in Europe?

    https://twitter.com/europeelects/status/1662912807933730823

    Spain (Madrid local election):

    Provisional results, 33.79% counted

    PP-EPP: 41%
    MM/VQ-G/EFA: 20%
    PSOE-S&D: 19%
    VOX-ECR: 9%
    Podemos/IU/AV-LEFT: 5%
    CS-RE: 3%

    I had a Madrileno girlfriend for a few weeks. From a rich old Spanish family. She was openly Francoist

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156
    Leon said:

    Is Madrid the most right wing capital city in Europe?

    https://twitter.com/europeelects/status/1662912807933730823

    Spain (Madrid local election):

    Provisional results, 33.79% counted

    PP-EPP: 41%
    MM/VQ-G/EFA: 20%
    PSOE-S&D: 19%
    VOX-ECR: 9%
    Podemos/IU/AV-LEFT: 5%
    CS-RE: 3%

    I had a Madrileno girlfriend for a few weeks. From a rich old Spanish family. She was openly Francoist

    Is that why she dumped you? :lol:
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Westie said:

    Off-topic, and IQ is a complete load of cobblers (nice to see UCL have denamed Francis Galton) but this article is hilarious regardless:

    https://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland-lags-europe-in-iq-league-2470181

    Av IQ in Scotland is supposedly 5 points below av for London and SE England. ROFL!

    I am amazed Richard Lynn (a man I have chatted with) is still allowed to do this kind of IQ research. It is so UnWoke

    He is probably right about Scotland. The Empire has surely led to a degradation of local IQs, then Nationalism and the midges and the rain have drained it further, and Scotland is not - like some other parts of the UK - being replenished by immigration from high IQ countries

    London likely has the highest IQ in Europe
    They do say excessive gin lowers your IQ by around 20 points.
    This too is science.
    It's good that you have given up. You were a week away from unreadability
    Just as well I’m not a writer, then.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,993
    Evening all :)

    Crunching last night's Opinium poll numbers for England, Labour have 44%, Conservatives 29.5%, Liberal Democrats 10% so that would be a 13.75% swing from Conservative to Labour and a 7.75% swing from Conservative to Liberal Democrat.

    Sunak's integrity "problem" isn't Sunak - I consider him a decent man albeit uninspiring and well out of his depth. Nonetheless, his managerialism is a significant improvement on his two immediate predecessors and if anything he reminds me more of a Conservative Gordon Brown with a significant flair for detail and micro-management.

    The best hope the Conservatives have is to try to persuade people to vote for the Prime Minister more than for the Conservative Party but that's pretty thin gruel after more than 13 years leading the government and five different Prime Ministers.

    Why should anyone vote Conservative on the basis of their past record? What reason is there to vote Conservative in terms of future plans and policies?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,961
    I usually end up watching top TV shows about 20 years after they first come out. For instance I watched the original Twin Peaks series from 1990 in about 2012. So I'll probably be watching Succession in about 2038.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,491
    stodge said:

    The best hope the Conservatives have is to try to persuade people to vote for the Prime Minister more than for the Conservative Party but that's pretty thin gruel after more than 13 years leading the government and five different Prime Ministers.

    Why should anyone vote Conservative on the basis of their past record? What reason is there to vote Conservative in terms of future plans and policies?

    The problem with the idea that you should vote for the Prime Minister rather than for the Conservative Party is that... well, when was the last time that a Conservative PM elected at a general election made it to the next general election?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,961

    Is Madrid the most right wing capital city in Europe?

    https://twitter.com/europeelects/status/1662912807933730823

    Spain (Madrid local election):

    Provisional results, 33.79% counted

    PP-EPP: 41%
    MM/VQ-G/EFA: 20%
    PSOE-S&D: 19%
    VOX-ECR: 9%
    Podemos/IU/AV-LEFT: 5%
    CS-RE: 3%

    I was there in February for about a week and it did seem like quite a conservative place compared to most other big cities.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,592
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Westie said:

    Off-topic, and IQ is a complete load of cobblers (nice to see UCL have denamed Francis Galton) but this article is hilarious regardless:

    https://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland-lags-europe-in-iq-league-2470181

    Av IQ in Scotland is supposedly 5 points below av for London and SE England. ROFL!

    I am amazed Richard Lynn (a man I have chatted with) is still allowed to do this kind of IQ research. It is so UnWoke

    He is probably right about Scotland. The Empire has surely led to a degradation of local IQs, then Nationalism and the midges and the rain have drained it further, and Scotland is not - like some other parts of the UK - being replenished by immigration from high IQ countries

    London likely has the highest IQ in Europe
    No city which contains the officials of the Departments for Education, Tranpsort, and Health along with OFSTED, OFQUAL, RHUL and QMUL could hope to have a high average IQ or indeed an average IQ in triple digits unless every other individual there was a latter day Socrates.

    Not forgetting they can't even do basic arithmetic, apparently, so can't make cash purchases.

    That said, I am reminded the SLC is in Glasgow. That's got to be deleterious to Scotland.
    Feel /fear for Darlington then - we have the English Office of the SLC (and believe me the pay is dire), a long standing DoE department and now various parts of the Treasury and other departments who want close access to the Treasury officers located here.

  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,993
    Results coming in from the Spanish local and regional elections.

    As I mentioned last evening, A Coruna has seen the Marea Party wiped out with PP up three to 12 but PSOE up two to 11 and the Galician Nationalists up two to four so perhaps PSOE and the Nationalists will lead a new council.

    I don't get the sense of big PSOE losses but PP and VOX both doing well and as with the national polls the sense the two parties together are close to taking control of a number of regions and local councils.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,993

    stodge said:

    The best hope the Conservatives have is to try to persuade people to vote for the Prime Minister more than for the Conservative Party but that's pretty thin gruel after more than 13 years leading the government and five different Prime Ministers.

    Why should anyone vote Conservative on the basis of their past record? What reason is there to vote Conservative in terms of future plans and policies?

    The problem with the idea that you should vote for the Prime Minister rather than for the Conservative Party is that... well, when was the last time that a Conservative PM elected at a general election made it to the next general election?
    I didn't say it was a good idea but I suspect there was a significant vote "for Boris" last time which wouldn't have translated to another Conservative Prime Minister. This time we'll no doubt see the Conservatives pushing a vote "for Rishi" as they try to separate him from the party and portray him as an overarching national figure around whom we can all rally as the best man for the job - apparently.

    I also suspect, were he to be defeated, Sunak will, pace Major, quickly exit the stage as others fight for the soul of the party.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    Andy_JS said:

    nico679 said:

    Erdogan wins a free but not fair election .

    With 90% of the media in his corner it was always an uphill struggle for the opposition. Unless Erdogan can get a change to the constitution then this will be his last term .

    Of course he'll change the constitution in order to run again.
    It is the standard tactic. You don't even need to remove term limits officially, just get a court to declare that a change in constitution resets the terms, though why leaders don't at that point just remove them I don't know - authoritarian or democratic if you want to be able to go on and on no need for pretence.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591

    Supreme Election Council declares Erdogan the winner but no word yet from Kilicdaroglu.

    Didn't one of the potential opposition candidates get disqualified on bogus grounds? Would a different one have managed just that few percent more need perhaps?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    Andy_JS said:

    I usually end up watching top TV shows about 20 years after they first come out. For instance I watched the original Twin Peaks series from 1990 in about 2012. So I'll probably be watching Succession in about 2038.

    Good strategy - you'll have the great ones which stood the test of time, and the ones which are approaching the key period of nostalgia and so seeing a revival of interest.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,961
    IQ:

    Germany 107
    Netherlands 107
    Poland 106
    Sweden 104
    Italy 102
    Austria 101
    Switzerland 101
    UK 100

    https://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland-lags-europe-in-iq-league-2470181
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156

    stodge said:

    The best hope the Conservatives have is to try to persuade people to vote for the Prime Minister more than for the Conservative Party but that's pretty thin gruel after more than 13 years leading the government and five different Prime Ministers.

    Why should anyone vote Conservative on the basis of their past record? What reason is there to vote Conservative in terms of future plans and policies?

    The problem with the idea that you should vote for the Prime Minister rather than for the Conservative Party is that... well, when was the last time that a Conservative PM elected at a general election made it to the next general election?
    Dave 2010-2015.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591

    Not seen this before.

    Comedian Zelensky making a joke about Erdogan (whilst wearing a Fez)

    https://twitter.com/MyLordBebo/status/1662893784890241024?s=20

    Not sure it translates too well.

    And to think he was known as such a subtle comedian.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    nico679 said:

    Erdogan wins a free but not fair election .

    With 90% of the media in his corner it was always an uphill struggle for the opposition. Unless Erdogan can get a change to the constitution then this will be his last term .

    Of course he'll change the constitution in order to run again.
    It is the standard tactic. You don't even need to remove term limits officially, just get a court to declare that a change in constitution resets the terms, though why leaders don't at that point just remove them I don't know - authoritarian or democratic if you want to be able to go on and on no need for pretence.
    Less administrative hassle ?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    Nigelb said:

    DougSeal said:

    Michael Clarke was suggesting we give the Ukrainians all of the Storm Shadow missiles and who am I to disagree with him? Do we have one thousand in total?

    Demilitarising the UK to chuck stuff at Ukraine is disgracefully reckless.
    I hope the suggestion was not to chuck the missiles at them.
    Silly hyperbole anyway.
    We could easily send a couple of hundred without compromising anything.

    And they’re to be replaced relatively soon, too.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Cruise/Anti-Ship_Weapon

    Not that soon in fairness - especially since the estimate is from 2 years ago, and so can be expected to have added a further couple of years probably.

    On 18 February 2022, an agreement and associated contracts signed by the head of the DGA, his British counterpart and the CEO of MBDA confirmed the launch of the preparation works for the FC/ASW...In July 2021, then Secretary of State for Defence Jeremy Quin, responded to a question on the in-service date for FC/ASW, stating: "The planning assumption for service entry for Future Cruise /Anti-Ship Weapon on the Type 26 Frigate and Typhoon aircraft is 2028 and 2030 respectively".
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,468

    stodge said:

    The best hope the Conservatives have is to try to persuade people to vote for the Prime Minister more than for the Conservative Party but that's pretty thin gruel after more than 13 years leading the government and five different Prime Ministers.

    Why should anyone vote Conservative on the basis of their past record? What reason is there to vote Conservative in terms of future plans and policies?

    The problem with the idea that you should vote for the Prime Minister rather than for the Conservative Party is that... well, when was the last time that a Conservative PM elected at a general election made it to the next general election?
    Dave in 2010-2015, but yes... that feels as current and as relevant as the Roman Empire.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    nico679 said:

    Erdogan wins a free but not fair election .

    With 90% of the media in his corner it was always an uphill struggle for the opposition. Unless Erdogan can get a change to the constitution then this will be his last term .

    Of course he'll change the constitution in order to run again.
    It is the standard tactic. You don't even need to remove term limits officially, just get a court to declare that a change in constitution resets the terms, though why leaders don't at that point just remove them I don't know - authoritarian or democratic if you want to be able to go on and on no need for pretence.
    Less administrative hassle ?
    It might well be more, since if you do last out the new term limits you have to go through changing the constitution again in however significant a way is needed to justify a reset, and you probably have to get a court system to agree, rather than just do it.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,679
    Andy_JS said:

    I usually end up watching top TV shows about 20 years after they first come out. For instance I watched the original Twin Peaks series from 1990 in about 2012. So I'll probably be watching Succession in about 2038.

    Yes, I'm limbering up for Mad Men. Then I'm thinking about Frazier.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,491
    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I usually end up watching top TV shows about 20 years after they first come out. For instance I watched the original Twin Peaks series from 1990 in about 2012. So I'll probably be watching Succession in about 2038.

    Yes, I'm limbering up for Mad Men. Then I'm thinking about Frazier.
    Can I recommend Blake's 7 and The Prisoner?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,246
    edited May 2023
    Erdogan wins the Turkish presidential election by 52% to 48%. The golden ratio.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    FF43 said:

    Erdogan wins the Turkish presidential election by 52% to 48%. The golden ratio.

    So close, Turkish opposition - might be the last chance they get, if Erdogan has been spooked.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,679

    stodge said:

    The best hope the Conservatives have is to try to persuade people to vote for the Prime Minister more than for the Conservative Party but that's pretty thin gruel after more than 13 years leading the government and five different Prime Ministers.

    Why should anyone vote Conservative on the basis of their past record? What reason is there to vote Conservative in terms of future plans and policies?

    The problem with the idea that you should vote for the Prime Minister rather than for the Conservative Party is that... well, when was the last time that a Conservative PM elected at a general election made it to the next general election?
    Dave in 2010-2015, but yes... that feels as current and as relevant as the Roman Empire.
    It really does seem the distant past. It's like Brexit and Johnson and Covid have punched a hole in space time. A seven year glitch.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,303
    kle4 said:

    FF43 said:

    Erdogan wins the Turkish presidential election by 52% to 48%. The golden ratio.

    So close, Turkish opposition - might be the last chance they get, if Erdogan has been spooked.
    He's not immortal.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    edited May 2023

    kle4 said:

    FF43 said:

    Erdogan wins the Turkish presidential election by 52% to 48%. The golden ratio.

    So close, Turkish opposition - might be the last chance they get, if Erdogan has been spooked.
    He's not immortal.
    Mugabe was dictatoring into his late 80s, I'm sure authoritarians can keep it up quite a long time. Or just lock things down for successors who really do give up pretence, like Maduro.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,679

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I usually end up watching top TV shows about 20 years after they first come out. For instance I watched the original Twin Peaks series from 1990 in about 2012. So I'll probably be watching Succession in about 2038.

    Yes, I'm limbering up for Mad Men. Then I'm thinking about Frazier.
    Can I recommend Blake's 7 and The Prisoner?
    Yes ok. Once I've finished Bonanza. If they're good enough age is no barrier.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,929
    kle4 said:

    Supreme Election Council declares Erdogan the winner but no word yet from Kilicdaroglu.

    Didn't one of the potential opposition candidates get disqualified on bogus grounds? Would a different one have managed just that few percent more need perhaps?
    Kilicdaroglu was probably the obvious unity candidate. One of the mayors - Imamoglu or Yavas - might have had a better chance of winning but they'll be young enough next time to have a go.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,325
    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    DougSeal said:

    Michael Clarke was suggesting we give the Ukrainians all of the Storm Shadow missiles and who am I to disagree with him? Do we have one thousand in total?

    Demilitarising the UK to chuck stuff at Ukraine is disgracefully reckless.
    I hope the suggestion was not to chuck the missiles at them.
    Silly hyperbole anyway.
    We could easily send a couple of hundred without compromising anything.

    And they’re to be replaced relatively soon, too.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Cruise/Anti-Ship_Weapon

    Not that soon in fairness - especially since the estimate is from 2 years ago, and so can be expected to have added a further couple of years probably.

    On 18 February 2022, an agreement and associated contracts signed by the head of the DGA, his British counterpart and the CEO of MBDA confirmed the launch of the preparation works for the FC/ASW...In July 2021, then Secretary of State for Defence Jeremy Quin, responded to a question on the in-service date for FC/ASW, stating: "The planning assumption for service entry for Future Cruise /Anti-Ship Weapon on the Type 26 Frigate and Typhoon aircraft is 2028 and 2030 respectively".
    Quin was not Secretary of State for Defence (thank God) but Minister of State for Defence Procurement (hazardous enough in itself). Unfortunately I can't edit Wikipedia because they've blocked my IP address for no reason whatsoever. In return I have blocked my monthly sub.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    edited May 2023
    Leon said:

    Westie said:

    Off-topic, and IQ is a complete load of cobblers (nice to see UCL have denamed Francis Galton) but this article is hilarious regardless:

    https://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland-lags-europe-in-iq-league-2470181

    Av IQ in Scotland is supposedly 5 points below av for London and SE England. ROFL!

    This quote from that article is hilarious:

    Gabriela and Monica Irimia, 23, the Romanian pop twins the Cheeky Girls, who live in Britain, said their homeland's poor ranking was an insult. Gabriela said: "Our father is head of the ambulance service in Romania. He's a doctor of medicine and extremely intelligent."
    The weird thing is, Liberal defense attorneys are absolutely happy to cite IQ - as in "low IQ" - when it might help get an acquittal for their clients


    "While they did not dis­pute that their client fired the shot that killed Mr French, de­fense at­tor­neys ar­gued that, at the time of the killing, Ms De­cuir was in a “sickle cell cri­sis” and suf­fer­ing from opi­ate painkiller with­drawal.

    They added that Ms De­cuir had a low IQ, a “lack of adap­tive func­tion­ing” and suf­fers from stress and anx­i­ety. As a con­se­quence, they said, she did not act “con­sciously” when fir­ing the gun.

    She was “un­aware of what is go­ing on,” at­tor­ney Mark Iver­son told the jury, “She is mov­ing, but with­out con­scious thought.”"

    https://sfpublicsafety.news/mistrial-family-of-slain-twin-peaks-photographer-lament-jury-deadlock/?fbclid=IwAR2txPt2sSElpXVGaGIG32lpIDP9jSZXtipkRMCgDNtYQ_jLwceJO7FkxTk

    So, which is it, guys? Is IQ a thing or not? And if IQ is relevant in criminal matters, why is it not relevant elsewhere? If being a dumb low-IQ fuck can get you a lesser sentence in a murder trial, why should an entire nation not seek to import higher IQ people that won't do this?
    You appear to be very sure of Mr Iverson’s political leanings and/or are unable to understand an advocate’s responsibility to place his client’s interests over his own political views at trial. I’ve put forward plenty of legally sound arguments based on laws that I would personally wish to see repealed. It’s what the job involves.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156
    edited May 2023
    kinabalu said:

    stodge said:

    The best hope the Conservatives have is to try to persuade people to vote for the Prime Minister more than for the Conservative Party but that's pretty thin gruel after more than 13 years leading the government and five different Prime Ministers.

    Why should anyone vote Conservative on the basis of their past record? What reason is there to vote Conservative in terms of future plans and policies?

    The problem with the idea that you should vote for the Prime Minister rather than for the Conservative Party is that... well, when was the last time that a Conservative PM elected at a general election made it to the next general election?
    Dave in 2010-2015, but yes... that feels as current and as relevant as the Roman Empire.
    It really does seem the distant past. It's like Brexit and Johnson and Covid have punched a hole in space time. A seven year glitch.
    "Population approximately 9 billion... all Tory!"
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,481

    stodge said:

    The best hope the Conservatives have is to try to persuade people to vote for the Prime Minister more than for the Conservative Party but that's pretty thin gruel after more than 13 years leading the government and five different Prime Ministers.

    Why should anyone vote Conservative on the basis of their past record? What reason is there to vote Conservative in terms of future plans and policies?

    The problem with the idea that you should vote for the Prime Minister rather than for the Conservative Party is that... well, when was the last time that a Conservative PM elected at a general election made it to the next general election?
    Dave 2010-2015.
    Ah, Dave... a Remainer, pro-gay rights, wanted to do something about climate change, so would struggle to even get picked as a candidate in today's Conservative Party, let alone become leader.
    David Cameron is more than 4 years younger than Sir Keir Starmer.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    edited May 2023
    So another 52% 48% win, this time for Erdogan.

    Sunak joined Lula and Biden and Scholz and tweeted congratulations,
    'Congratulations to @RTErdogan. I look forward to continuing the strong collaboration between our countries, from growing trade to tackling security threats as NATO allies.'


    https://twitter.com/RishiSunak/status/1662922299559870465?s=20
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,481
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Westie said:

    Off-topic, and IQ is a complete load of cobblers (nice to see UCL have denamed Francis Galton) but this article is hilarious regardless:

    https://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland-lags-europe-in-iq-league-2470181

    Av IQ in Scotland is supposedly 5 points below av for London and SE England. ROFL!

    This quote from that article is hilarious:

    Gabriela and Monica Irimia, 23, the Romanian pop twins the Cheeky Girls, who live in Britain, said their homeland's poor ranking was an insult. Gabriela said: "Our father is head of the ambulance service in Romania. He's a doctor of medicine and extremely intelligent."
    The weird thing is, Liberal defense attorneys are absolutely happy to cite IQ - as in "low IQ" - when it might help get an acquittal for their clients


    "While they did not dis­pute that their client fired the shot that killed Mr French, de­fense at­tor­neys ar­gued that, at the time of the killing, Ms De­cuir was in a “sickle cell cri­sis” and suf­fer­ing from opi­ate painkiller with­drawal.

    They added that Ms De­cuir had a low IQ, a “lack of adap­tive func­tion­ing” and suf­fers from stress and anx­i­ety. As a con­se­quence, they said, she did not act “con­sciously” when fir­ing the gun.

    She was “un­aware of what is go­ing on,” at­tor­ney Mark Iver­son told the jury, “She is mov­ing, but with­out con­scious thought.”"

    https://sfpublicsafety.news/mistrial-family-of-slain-twin-peaks-photographer-lament-jury-deadlock/?fbclid=IwAR2txPt2sSElpXVGaGIG32lpIDP9jSZXtipkRMCgDNtYQ_jLwceJO7FkxTk

    So, which is it, guys? Is IQ a thing or not? And if IQ is relevant in criminal matters, why is it not relevant elsewhere? If being a dumb low-IQ fuck can get you a lesser sentence in a murder trial, why should an entire nation not seek to import higher IQ people that won't do this?
    You appear to be very sure of Mr Iverson’s political leanings and/or are unable to understand an advocate’s responsibility to place his client’s interests over his own political views at trial. I’ve put forward plenty of legally sound arguments based on laws that I would personally wish to see repealed. It’s what the job involves.
    It's the same as "Lefty teachers indoctrinating impressionable kids."
    Rather than delivering a restrictive centrally imposed curriculum dictated by the government of the day.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    'Labour plans to block new North Sea oil and gas developments as Starmer vows to make UK 'clean energy superpower''
    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1662813190193836032?s=20
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,424

    Can I recommend Blake's 7

    Can you? Yes
    Should you? Hmmm...

    (incidentally and coincidentally https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B2NXFtM_YA )

  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,752



    Dave in 2010-2015,

    I thought for a moment we were still talking about old TV, in which case Dave's output from 2010-2015 will probably still be on tonight anyway.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,871

    Michael Clarke was suggesting we give the Ukrainians all of the Storm Shadow missiles and who am I to disagree with him? Do we have one thousand in total?

    Demilitarising the UK to chuck stuff at Ukraine is disgracefully reckless.
    Do you treat all arms exports as a form of demilitarisation?
    I am sure that question has a point - by all means proceed with making it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    edited May 2023
    FF43 said:

    Erdogan wins the Turkish presidential election by 52% to 48%. The golden ratio.

    Kılıçdaroğlu wins Ankara and Istanbul and the main Turkish liberal urban areas but Erdogan looks to have swept more conservative rural Turkey and less wealthy areas.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2023/may/28/turkey-election-results-presidential-vote-round-two
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,916

    Michael Clarke was suggesting we give the Ukrainians all of the Storm Shadow missiles and who am I to disagree with him? Do we have one thousand in total?

    Demilitarising the UK to chuck stuff at Ukraine is disgracefully reckless.
    We're giving them to warriors fighting a war of survival

    Better that than them rotting in a warehouse here
    And they seem to be working well enough that if we need to buy some more we know they'll be effective if we need to use them.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,481
    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    Erdogan wins the Turkish presidential election by 52% to 48%. The golden ratio.

    Kılıçdaroğlu wins Ankara and Istanbul and the main Turkish liberal urban areas but Erdogan looks to have swept more conservative rural Turkey and less wealthy areas.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2023/may/28/turkey-election-results-presidential-vote-round-two
    He's won everywhere which isn't Istanbul, Ankara, Mediterranean Coast or Kurdish east.
    Country is very divided geographically.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    Erdogan wins the Turkish presidential election by 52% to 48%. The golden ratio.

    Kılıçdaroğlu wins Ankara and Istanbul and the main Turkish liberal urban areas but Erdogan looks to have swept more conservative rural Turkey and less wealthy areas.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2023/may/28/turkey-election-results-presidential-vote-round-two
    He's won everywhere which isn't Istanbul, Ankara, Mediterranean Coast or Kurdish east.
    Country is very divided geographically.
    Looks very much like the Brexit vote or US 2016 election yes, Remain and Hillary won the big cities comfortably but Leave and Trump won everywhere else
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,303
    The Taliban attacking Iran with American weapons is an interesting development.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,961

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I usually end up watching top TV shows about 20 years after they first come out. For instance I watched the original Twin Peaks series from 1990 in about 2012. So I'll probably be watching Succession in about 2038.

    Yes, I'm limbering up for Mad Men. Then I'm thinking about Frazier.
    Can I recommend Blake's 7 and The Prisoner?
    Thanks for the recommendation.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,476

    ping said:

    This makes me more and more angry.

    https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/black-country/drugs-kingpin-who-planned-flood-26999629

    Unless it’s a cover to protect other sources, why did it take the french and dutch police to catch him out, before the British police bought him to justice?

    There should be fucking riots on the streets about this. The conservatives did this to us. How fucking dare they?

    I enabled this man, with my Tory vote back in 2012. I won’t make the same mistake again.

    The article says that it makes no suggestion his mother was aware of her son’s criminal activities. What is your reason for blaming the Tories for the failure of the police?
    He's making the not unreasonable assumption that Mum is likely to have known something.

    Not sure where the connection with the Tories comes from though. Seems to me the malaise in the Police Force goes back more than thirteen years and has structural origins that appear to be beyond all Parties.
    Without evidence that’s quite close to accusing her of criminal neglect in demonstrating favouritism. She is is responsible for the police in her area.

    Evidence?

    The report gives ample evidence of the kind of lifestyle that is unlikely to have been funded by a successful furniture removal business. That's not proof, of course, but a reasonable suspicion that Mum might have had her suspicions? That's not exactly stretching it.
    The problem is she is part of the law enforcement hierarchy. She has a duty to report suspicions. Failure to do so would be criminal neglect - what @ping is implicitly accusing her of
    Suspecting, not accusing. It's not an unreasonable thought in the circumstances.
    Not where libel is concerned

    Who's been libelled? Where?

    Listen, if any of my kids had been living that kind of lifestyle without any obvious means of supporting it, I'd have been asking a few question - and I'm not especially suspicious, nor in a sensitive public role. Of course she may have been oblivious, but she couldn't be surprised if others wondered.


    Some of @ping ’s posts were pretty close to the line. I’m always cautious where my learned friends are involved
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    Sad story - no doubt they have lots of practice at doing this sort of thing.

    Two years ago, Raman Pratasevich, a young Belarusian dissident blogger, was white-knuckled, begging a Ryanair flight crew not to make an emergency landing at Minsk airport.

    He said: “Don’t do this, they will kill me, I am a refugee,” according to a fellow passenger. The plane, escorted by a Belarusian Mig-29 fighter jet sent to force it down, landed anyway. Pratasevich was promptly arrested.

    Last week he emerged from custody. The activist and blogger, accused of more than 1,586 crimes, was charged on 10 counts including conspiracy to seize power. He was sentenced to eight years in prison and then promptly pardoned, his reward from Belarusian dictator Alexander Lukashenko for becoming a full-throated mouthpiece of the regime...

    The breaking of Pratasevich, who weeks before his arrest compared Lukashenko’s repressions to Hitler’s, has been a macabre display of the dictator’s power and desire for revenge.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/27/belarus-dissident-arrested-collaborator-raman-pratasevich
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,476

    Westie said:

    Off-topic, and IQ is a complete load of cobblers (nice to see UCL have denamed Francis Galton) but this article is hilarious regardless:

    https://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland-lags-europe-in-iq-league-2470181

    Av IQ in Scotland is supposedly 5 points below av for London and SE England. ROFL!

    This quote from that article is hilarious:

    Gabriela and Monica Irimia, 23, the Romanian pop twins the Cheeky Girls, who live in Britain, said their homeland's poor ranking was an insult. Gabriela said: "Our father is head of the ambulance service in Romania. He's a doctor of medicine and extremely intelligent."
    I’m glad the article was from 2006!

    I had a moment wondering just how old they were when they dated our favourite Lib Dem
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,476
    Chris said:

    DougSeal said:

    RobD said:

    Reading is so close to London by train.

    Have I subscribed to train facts by mistake? :)
    What is the only Tube line to cross the Thames by bridge?
    The District
    What is the only river to cross a Tube line by aqueduct?
    Tyburn?
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,034
    edited May 2023
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I usually end up watching top TV shows about 20 years after they first come out. For instance I watched the original Twin Peaks series from 1990 in about 2012. So I'll probably be watching Succession in about 2038.

    Yes, I'm limbering up for Mad Men. Then I'm thinking about Frazier.
    Can I recommend Blake's 7 and The Prisoner?
    Yes ok. Once I've finished Bonanza. If they're good enough age is no barrier.
    The Manson Family lived on the Bonanza film set before going on their killing spree. I'd stick with Blakes 7 if I were you. The Prisoner set has the risk of suffocation-by-bouncy-ball and also very expensive pottery, so best avoided.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    Rishi completed the Northallerton 10k run today in a break from running the country
    https://www.instagram.com/stories/rishisunakmp/3112747067000323211/
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    edited May 2023
    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    Erdogan wins the Turkish presidential election by 52% to 48%. The golden ratio.

    Kılıçdaroğlu wins Ankara and Istanbul and the main Turkish liberal urban areas but Erdogan looks to have swept more conservative rural Turkey and less wealthy areas.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2023/may/28/turkey-election-results-presidential-vote-round-two
    He's won everywhere which isn't Istanbul, Ankara, Mediterranean Coast or Kurdish east.
    Country is very divided geographically.
    Looks very much like the Brexit vote or US 2016 election yes, Remain and Hillary won the big cities comfortably but Leave and Trump won everywhere else
    Remain won in every part of Scotland
    Banff and Buchan voted Leave and even in Scotland urban areas were much more Remain than rural areas
    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scottish-constituency-of-banff-and-buchan-voted-for-brexit-1462018
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,303
    HYUFD said:

    Rishi completed the Northallerton 10k run today in a break from running the country
    https://www.instagram.com/stories/rishisunakmp/3112747067000323211/

    His time was 47:41 according to the results page. Name is "Unknown".

    https://racebest.com/results/gu8ce
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,147
    Andy_JS said:

    I usually end up watching top TV shows about 20 years after they first come out. For instance I watched the original Twin Peaks series from 1990 in about 2012. So I'll probably be watching Succession in about 2038.

    I like your faith that we will survive the AI robo-apocalypse...
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,820

    HYUFD said:

    Rishi completed the Northallerton 10k run today in a break from running the country
    https://www.instagram.com/stories/rishisunakmp/3112747067000323211/

    His time was 47:41 according to the results page. Name is "Unknown".

    https://racebest.com/results/gu8ce
    beat my pb for 10 k then of 47.59
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    edited May 2023
    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    Erdogan wins the Turkish presidential election by 52% to 48%. The golden ratio.

    Kılıçdaroğlu wins Ankara and Istanbul and the main Turkish liberal urban areas but Erdogan looks to have swept more conservative rural Turkey and less wealthy areas.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2023/may/28/turkey-election-results-presidential-vote-round-two
    He's won everywhere which isn't Istanbul, Ankara, Mediterranean Coast or Kurdish east.
    Country is very divided geographically.
    Looks very much like the Brexit vote or US 2016 election yes, Remain and Hillary won the big cities comfortably but Leave and Trump won everywhere else
    Remain won in every part of Scotland
    Banff and Buchan voted Leave and even in Scotland urban areas were much more Remain than rural areas
    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scottish-constituency-of-banff-and-buchan-voted-for-brexit-1462018
    Every council area in Scotland voted Remain. All of them. Rural or urban. All.
    As I said Banff and Buchan, a constituency of over 50,000 people and predominantly rural and coastal fishing ports, voted 54% Leave so your statement Remain won in every part of Scotland was wrong
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277
    Another desperate headline grabbing policy implodes on contact with reality ! Sunaks man of the people fix the price of some supermarket staples blows up ! He really is beginning to look completely out of his depth and the next GE can’t come soon enough to rid the country of this clueless government.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,303
    nico679 said:

    Another desperate headline grabbing policy implodes on contact with reality ! Sunaks man of the people fix the price of some supermarket staples blows up ! He really is beginning to look completely out of his depth and the next GE can’t come soon enough to rid the country of this clueless government.

    But can Starmer run 10km in under 50 minutes?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    Erdogan wins the Turkish presidential election by 52% to 48%. The golden ratio.

    Kılıçdaroğlu wins Ankara and Istanbul and the main Turkish liberal urban areas but Erdogan looks to have swept more conservative rural Turkey and less wealthy areas.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2023/may/28/turkey-election-results-presidential-vote-round-two
    He's won everywhere which isn't Istanbul, Ankara, Mediterranean Coast or Kurdish east.
    Country is very divided geographically.
    Looks very much like the Brexit vote or US 2016 election yes, Remain and Hillary won the big cities comfortably but Leave and Trump won everywhere else
    Remain won in every part of Scotland
    Banff and Buchan voted Leave and even in Scotland urban areas were much more Remain than rural areas
    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scottish-constituency-of-banff-and-buchan-voted-for-brexit-1462018
    Every council area in Scotland voted Remain. All of them. Rural or urban. All.
    As I said Banff and Buchan, a constituency of over 50,000 people and predominantly rural and coastal fishing ports, voted 54% Leave so your statement Remain won in every part of Scotland was wrong
    Every single council area, HYUFD. All of them.
    NOT every single part of Scotland though which is what you said
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156
    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    Erdogan wins the Turkish presidential election by 52% to 48%. The golden ratio.

    Kılıçdaroğlu wins Ankara and Istanbul and the main Turkish liberal urban areas but Erdogan looks to have swept more conservative rural Turkey and less wealthy areas.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2023/may/28/turkey-election-results-presidential-vote-round-two
    He's won everywhere which isn't Istanbul, Ankara, Mediterranean Coast or Kurdish east.
    Country is very divided geographically.
    Looks very much like the Brexit vote or US 2016 election yes, Remain and Hillary won the big cities comfortably but Leave and Trump won everywhere else
    Remain won in every part of Scotland
    Banff and Buchan voted Leave and even in Scotland urban areas were much more Remain than rural areas
    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scottish-constituency-of-banff-and-buchan-voted-for-brexit-1462018
    Every council area in Scotland voted Remain. All of them. Rural or urban. All.
    As I said Banff and Buchan, a constituency of over 50,000 people and predominantly rural and coastal fishing ports, voted 54% Leave so your statement Remain won in every part of Scotland was wrong
    Every single council area, HYUFD. All of them.
    NOT every single part of Scotland though which is what you said
    :innocent:
    image
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    Erdogan wins the Turkish presidential election by 52% to 48%. The golden ratio.

    Kılıçdaroğlu wins Ankara and Istanbul and the main Turkish liberal urban areas but Erdogan looks to have swept more conservative rural Turkey and less wealthy areas.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2023/may/28/turkey-election-results-presidential-vote-round-two
    He's won everywhere which isn't Istanbul, Ankara, Mediterranean Coast or Kurdish east.
    Country is very divided geographically.
    Looks very much like the Brexit vote or US 2016 election yes, Remain and Hillary won the big cities comfortably but Leave and Trump won everywhere else
    Remain won in every part of Scotland
    Banff and Buchan voted Leave and even in Scotland urban areas were much more Remain than rural areas
    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scottish-constituency-of-banff-and-buchan-voted-for-brexit-1462018
    Every council area in Scotland voted Remain. All of them. Rural or urban. All.
    As I said Banff and Buchan, a constituency of over 50,000 people and predominantly rural and coastal fishing ports, voted 54% Leave so your statement Remain won in every part of Scotland was wrong
    Every single council area, HYUFD. All of them.
    NOT every single part of Scotland though which is what you said
    Yeah, well, Tam down the way in number 12, he lives alone and he voted Alba so I guess Alba won "parts" of Scotland too. Just the one hoose ken, but it counts.
    We are talking a whole parliamentary constituency, not 1 house. As I said Banff and Buchan voted 54% Leave
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    Erdogan wins the Turkish presidential election by 52% to 48%. The golden ratio.

    Kılıçdaroğlu wins Ankara and Istanbul and the main Turkish liberal urban areas but Erdogan looks to have swept more conservative rural Turkey and less wealthy areas.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2023/may/28/turkey-election-results-presidential-vote-round-two
    He's won everywhere which isn't Istanbul, Ankara, Mediterranean Coast or Kurdish east.
    Country is very divided geographically.
    Looks very much like the Brexit vote or US 2016 election yes, Remain and Hillary won the big cities comfortably but Leave and Trump won everywhere else
    Remain won in every part of Scotland
    Banff and Buchan voted Leave and even in Scotland urban areas were much more Remain than rural areas
    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scottish-constituency-of-banff-and-buchan-voted-for-brexit-1462018
    Every council area in Scotland voted Remain. All of them. Rural or urban. All.
    As I said Banff and Buchan, a constituency of over 50,000 people and predominantly rural and coastal fishing ports, voted 54% Leave so your statement Remain won in every part of Scotland was wrong
    Every single council area, HYUFD. All of them.
    NOT every single part of Scotland though which is what you said
    :innocent:
    image
    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scottish-constituency-of-banff-and-buchan-voted-for-brexit-1462018
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156
    edited May 2023
    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    Erdogan wins the Turkish presidential election by 52% to 48%. The golden ratio.

    Kılıçdaroğlu wins Ankara and Istanbul and the main Turkish liberal urban areas but Erdogan looks to have swept more conservative rural Turkey and less wealthy areas.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2023/may/28/turkey-election-results-presidential-vote-round-two
    He's won everywhere which isn't Istanbul, Ankara, Mediterranean Coast or Kurdish east.
    Country is very divided geographically.
    Looks very much like the Brexit vote or US 2016 election yes, Remain and Hillary won the big cities comfortably but Leave and Trump won everywhere else
    Remain won in every part of Scotland
    Banff and Buchan voted Leave and even in Scotland urban areas were much more Remain than rural areas
    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scottish-constituency-of-banff-and-buchan-voted-for-brexit-1462018
    Every council area in Scotland voted Remain. All of them. Rural or urban. All.
    As I said Banff and Buchan, a constituency of over 50,000 people and predominantly rural and coastal fishing ports, voted 54% Leave so your statement Remain won in every part of Scotland was wrong
    Every single council area, HYUFD. All of them.
    NOT every single part of Scotland though which is what you said
    Yeah, well, Tam down the way in number 12, he lives alone and he voted Alba so I guess Alba won "parts" of Scotland too. Just the one hoose ken, but it counts.
    We are talking a whole parliamentary constituency, not 1 house. As I said Banff and Buchan voted 54% Leave
    "Whooppee-fucking-do, hey I'm impressed!"

    In NI, 11 constituencies out of 18 voted to Remain.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    edited May 2023
    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    Erdogan wins the Turkish presidential election by 52% to 48%. The golden ratio.

    Kılıçdaroğlu wins Ankara and Istanbul and the main Turkish liberal urban areas but Erdogan looks to have swept more conservative rural Turkey and less wealthy areas.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2023/may/28/turkey-election-results-presidential-vote-round-two
    He's won everywhere which isn't Istanbul, Ankara, Mediterranean Coast or Kurdish east.
    Country is very divided geographically.
    Looks very much like the Brexit vote or US 2016 election yes, Remain and Hillary won the big cities comfortably but Leave and Trump won everywhere else
    Remain won in every part of Scotland
    Banff and Buchan voted Leave and even in Scotland urban areas were much more Remain than rural areas
    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scottish-constituency-of-banff-and-buchan-voted-for-brexit-1462018
    Every council area in Scotland voted Remain. All of them. Rural or urban. All.
    As I said Banff and Buchan, a constituency of over 50,000 people and predominantly rural and coastal fishing ports, voted 54% Leave so your statement Remain won in every part of Scotland was wrong
    Every single council area, HYUFD. All of them.
    NOT every single part of Scotland though which is what you said
    Yeah, well, Tam down the way in number 12, he lives alone and he voted Alba so I guess Alba won "parts" of Scotland too. Just the one hoose ken, but it counts.
    We are talking a whole parliamentary constituency, not 1 house. As I said Banff and Buchan voted 54% Leave
    We're talking about council areas because that's how it's been widely reported.

    In any case you're wrong:
    Remain... won the big cities comfortably but Leave... won everywhere else.

    How many big cities do you reckon there are in Aberdeenshire?
    Well technically if you really want to get pedantic Birmingham and Sheffield voted Leave despite being big cities but we were talking the overall trend ie Remain won a majority of the vote in big cities, Leave won a majority of the vote in rural areas and ex industrial and market towns
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156
    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    Erdogan wins the Turkish presidential election by 52% to 48%. The golden ratio.

    Kılıçdaroğlu wins Ankara and Istanbul and the main Turkish liberal urban areas but Erdogan looks to have swept more conservative rural Turkey and less wealthy areas.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2023/may/28/turkey-election-results-presidential-vote-round-two
    He's won everywhere which isn't Istanbul, Ankara, Mediterranean Coast or Kurdish east.
    Country is very divided geographically.
    Looks very much like the Brexit vote or US 2016 election yes, Remain and Hillary won the big cities comfortably but Leave and Trump won everywhere else
    Remain won in every part of Scotland
    Banff and Buchan voted Leave and even in Scotland urban areas were much more Remain than rural areas
    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scottish-constituency-of-banff-and-buchan-voted-for-brexit-1462018
    Every council area in Scotland voted Remain. All of them. Rural or urban. All.
    As I said Banff and Buchan, a constituency of over 50,000 people and predominantly rural and coastal fishing ports, voted 54% Leave so your statement Remain won in every part of Scotland was wrong
    Every single council area, HYUFD. All of them.
    NOT every single part of Scotland though which is what you said
    Yeah, well, Tam down the way in number 12, he lives alone and he voted Alba so I guess Alba won "parts" of Scotland too. Just the one hoose ken, but it counts.
    We are talking a whole parliamentary constituency, not 1 house. As I said Banff and Buchan voted 54% Leave
    We're talking about council areas because that's how it's been widely reported.

    In any case you're wrong:
    Remain... won the big cities comfortably but Leave... won everywhere else.

    How many big cities do you reckon there are in Aberdeenshire?
    Well technically if you really want to get pedantic Birmingham and Sheffield voted Leave despite being big cities but we were talking the overall trend
    The 382 voting areas were grouped into twelve regional counts and there was separate declarations for each of the regional counts.

    In England, as happened in the 2011 AV referendum, the 326 districts were used as the local voting areas and the returns of these then fed into nine English regional counts. In Scotland the local voting areas were the 32 local councils which then fed their results into the Scottish national count, and in Wales the 22 local councils were their local voting areas before the results were then fed into the Welsh national count. Northern Ireland, as was the case in the AV referendum, was a single voting and national count area although local totals by Westminster parliamentary constituency areas were announced.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum#Voting,_voting_areas,_and_counts
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156
    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    Erdogan wins the Turkish presidential election by 52% to 48%. The golden ratio.

    Kılıçdaroğlu wins Ankara and Istanbul and the main Turkish liberal urban areas but Erdogan looks to have swept more conservative rural Turkey and less wealthy areas.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2023/may/28/turkey-election-results-presidential-vote-round-two
    He's won everywhere which isn't Istanbul, Ankara, Mediterranean Coast or Kurdish east.
    Country is very divided geographically.
    Looks very much like the Brexit vote or US 2016 election yes, Remain and Hillary won the big cities comfortably but Leave and Trump won everywhere else
    Remain won in every part of Scotland
    Banff and Buchan voted Leave and even in Scotland urban areas were much more Remain than rural areas
    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scottish-constituency-of-banff-and-buchan-voted-for-brexit-1462018
    Every council area in Scotland voted Remain. All of them. Rural or urban. All.
    As I said Banff and Buchan, a constituency of over 50,000 people and predominantly rural and coastal fishing ports, voted 54% Leave so your statement Remain won in every part of Scotland was wrong
    Every single council area, HYUFD. All of them.
    NOT every single part of Scotland though which is what you said
    Yeah, well, Tam down the way in number 12, he lives alone and he voted Alba so I guess Alba won "parts" of Scotland too. Just the one hoose ken, but it counts.
    We are talking a whole parliamentary constituency, not 1 house. As I said Banff and Buchan voted 54% Leave
    We're talking about council areas because that's how it's been widely reported.

    In any case you're wrong:
    Remain... won the big cities comfortably but Leave... won everywhere else.

    How many big cities do you reckon there are in Aberdeenshire?
    Well technically if you really want to get pedantic Birmingham and Sheffield voted Leave despite being big cities but we were talking the overall trend ie Remain won a majority of the vote in big cities, Leave won a majority of the vote in rural areas and ex industrial and market towns
    :open_mouth:
    image
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,961
    edited May 2023
    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    Erdogan wins the Turkish presidential election by 52% to 48%. The golden ratio.

    Kılıçdaroğlu wins Ankara and Istanbul and the main Turkish liberal urban areas but Erdogan looks to have swept more conservative rural Turkey and less wealthy areas.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2023/may/28/turkey-election-results-presidential-vote-round-two
    He's won everywhere which isn't Istanbul, Ankara, Mediterranean Coast or Kurdish east.
    Country is very divided geographically.
    Looks very much like the Brexit vote or US 2016 election yes, Remain and Hillary won the big cities comfortably but Leave and Trump won everywhere else
    Remain won in every part of Scotland
    Banff and Buchan voted Leave and even in Scotland urban areas were much more Remain than rural areas
    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scottish-constituency-of-banff-and-buchan-voted-for-brexit-1462018
    Every council area in Scotland voted Remain. All of them. Rural or urban. All.
    As I said Banff and Buchan, a constituency of over 50,000 people and predominantly rural and coastal fishing ports, voted 54% Leave so your statement Remain won in every part of Scotland was wrong
    Every single council area, HYUFD. All of them.
    NOT every single part of Scotland though which is what you said
    Yeah, well, Tam down the way in number 12, he lives alone and he voted Alba so I guess Alba won "parts" of Scotland too. Just the one hoose ken, but it counts.
    We are talking a whole parliamentary constituency, not 1 house. As I said Banff and Buchan voted 54% Leave
    We're talking about council areas because that's how it's been widely reported.

    In any case you're wrong:
    Remain... won the big cities comfortably but Leave... won everywhere else.

    How many big cities do you reckon there are in Aberdeenshire?
    Well technically if you really want to get pedantic Birmingham and Sheffield voted Leave despite being big cities but we were talking the overall trend ie Remain won a majority of the vote in big cities, Leave won a majority of the vote in rural areas and ex industrial and market towns
    I think B'ham was the result that prompted John Curtice and the BBC to declare the overall result as a Leave victory, because most people were expecting at least a small Remain win there and in fact it voted Leave by around 4,000 votes.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    Erdogan wins the Turkish presidential election by 52% to 48%. The golden ratio.

    Kılıçdaroğlu wins Ankara and Istanbul and the main Turkish liberal urban areas but Erdogan looks to have swept more conservative rural Turkey and less wealthy areas.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2023/may/28/turkey-election-results-presidential-vote-round-two
    He's won everywhere which isn't Istanbul, Ankara, Mediterranean Coast or Kurdish east.
    Country is very divided geographically.
    Looks very much like the Brexit vote or US 2016 election yes, Remain and Hillary won the big cities comfortably but Leave and Trump won everywhere else
    Remain won in every part of Scotland
    Banff and Buchan voted Leave and even in Scotland urban areas were much more Remain than rural areas
    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scottish-constituency-of-banff-and-buchan-voted-for-brexit-1462018
    Every council area in Scotland voted Remain. All of them. Rural or urban. All.
    As I said Banff and Buchan, a constituency of over 50,000 people and predominantly rural and coastal fishing ports, voted 54% Leave so your statement Remain won in every part of Scotland was wrong
    Every single council area, HYUFD. All of them.
    NOT every single part of Scotland though which is what you said
    Yeah, well, Tam down the way in number 12, he lives alone and he voted Alba so I guess Alba won "parts" of Scotland too. Just the one hoose ken, but it counts.
    We are talking a whole parliamentary constituency, not 1 house. As I said Banff and Buchan voted 54% Leave
    We're talking about council areas because that's how it's been widely reported.

    In any case you're wrong:
    Remain... won the big cities comfortably but Leave... won everywhere else.

    How many big cities do you reckon there are in Aberdeenshire?
    Well technically if you really want to get pedantic Birmingham and Sheffield voted Leave despite being big cities but we were talking the overall trend ie Remain won a majority of the vote in big cities, Leave won a majority of the vote in rural areas and ex industrial and market towns
    The "big cities" thing wasn't me.
    If you want to have it out with with person who said that, have a word with that HYUFD guy. But watch out, he's a bit fighty and bit all over the place.
    No, you said 'Remain won in every part of Scotland' and were completely wrong as Banff and Buchan Westminster constituency voted 54% Leave
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,690
    ohnotnow said:

    From John Redwood's blog:

    "I have long been critical of some UK plans to take us on the road to net zero. They entail making it very dear to use energy here so we import high energy using products from abroad. They stop us getting out our own oil and gas so we import more from overseas. They run down our food production from home farms, only to bring in more from abroad.

    All those who do think getting world CO2 down is a crucial priority should attack these plans, as they mean more CO 2 produced in shipping all the things to us. If we bring in more LNG gas that produces far more CO 2 in its compression, shipping and conversion than our own gas down a pipe. If we import German or Chinese steel they may produce more CO 2 in its manufacture than we do, but they will certainly produce more CO 2 in its transport.

    Today I want to concentrate on the damage these policies do to our state finances. They lose us lots of revenue, by substituting foreign for domestic production. All the super taxes paid on oil and gas output go to a foreign producer government not to the Treasury. All the taxes on wages and profits in making things go to overseas governments where the exporting factories lie. There is a major drain on our balance of payments which means the country has to borrow more from overseas to pay the bills in foreign currencies, leading to a higher debt interest burden. This is economic self harm on a grand scale... "

    Why do we live in a UK where these sorts of basic facts need to be spelled out as if to a 5yr old? Germany also has to grapple with Net Zero, but when it comes to keeping their economy on the rails, they're pulling down towns to dig coal mines.

    Satire of the highest order. Top stuff.
    Except he is right in every singke thing he says in that article.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156
    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    Erdogan wins the Turkish presidential election by 52% to 48%. The golden ratio.

    Kılıçdaroğlu wins Ankara and Istanbul and the main Turkish liberal urban areas but Erdogan looks to have swept more conservative rural Turkey and less wealthy areas.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2023/may/28/turkey-election-results-presidential-vote-round-two
    He's won everywhere which isn't Istanbul, Ankara, Mediterranean Coast or Kurdish east.
    Country is very divided geographically.
    Looks very much like the Brexit vote or US 2016 election yes, Remain and Hillary won the big cities comfortably but Leave and Trump won everywhere else
    Remain won in every part of Scotland
    Banff and Buchan voted Leave and even in Scotland urban areas were much more Remain than rural areas
    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scottish-constituency-of-banff-and-buchan-voted-for-brexit-1462018
    Every council area in Scotland voted Remain. All of them. Rural or urban. All.
    As I said Banff and Buchan, a constituency of over 50,000 people and predominantly rural and coastal fishing ports, voted 54% Leave so your statement Remain won in every part of Scotland was wrong
    Every single council area, HYUFD. All of them.
    NOT every single part of Scotland though which is what you said
    Yeah, well, Tam down the way in number 12, he lives alone and he voted Alba so I guess Alba won "parts" of Scotland too. Just the one hoose ken, but it counts.
    We are talking a whole parliamentary constituency, not 1 house. As I said Banff and Buchan voted 54% Leave
    We're talking about council areas because that's how it's been widely reported.

    In any case you're wrong:
    Remain... won the big cities comfortably but Leave... won everywhere else.

    How many big cities do you reckon there are in Aberdeenshire?
    Well technically if you really want to get pedantic Birmingham and Sheffield voted Leave despite being big cities but we were talking the overall trend ie Remain won a majority of the vote in big cities, Leave won a majority of the vote in rural areas and ex industrial and market towns
    The "big cities" thing wasn't me.
    If you want to have it out with with person who said that, have a word with that HYUFD guy. But watch out, he's a bit fighty and bit all over the place.
    No, you said 'Remain won in every part of Scotland' and were completely wrong as Banff and Buchan Westminster constituency voted 54% Leave

    In England, as happened in the 2011 AV referendum, the 326 districts were used as the local voting areas and the returns of these then fed into nine English regional counts. In Scotland the local voting areas were the 32 local councils which then fed their results into the Scottish national count

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum#Voting,_voting_areas,_and_counts
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    edited May 2023

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    Erdogan wins the Turkish presidential election by 52% to 48%. The golden ratio.

    Kılıçdaroğlu wins Ankara and Istanbul and the main Turkish liberal urban areas but Erdogan looks to have swept more conservative rural Turkey and less wealthy areas.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2023/may/28/turkey-election-results-presidential-vote-round-two
    He's won everywhere which isn't Istanbul, Ankara, Mediterranean Coast or Kurdish east.
    Country is very divided geographically.
    Looks very much like the Brexit vote or US 2016 election yes, Remain and Hillary won the big cities comfortably but Leave and Trump won everywhere else
    Remain won in every part of Scotland
    Banff and Buchan voted Leave and even in Scotland urban areas were much more Remain than rural areas
    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scottish-constituency-of-banff-and-buchan-voted-for-brexit-1462018
    Every council area in Scotland voted Remain. All of them. Rural or urban. All.
    As I said Banff and Buchan, a constituency of over 50,000 people and predominantly rural and coastal fishing ports, voted 54% Leave so your statement Remain won in every part of Scotland was wrong
    Every single council area, HYUFD. All of them.
    NOT every single part of Scotland though which is what you said
    Yeah, well, Tam down the way in number 12, he lives alone and he voted Alba so I guess Alba won "parts" of Scotland too. Just the one hoose ken, but it counts.
    We are talking a whole parliamentary constituency, not 1 house. As I said Banff and Buchan voted 54% Leave
    We're talking about council areas because that's how it's been widely reported.

    In any case you're wrong:
    Remain... won the big cities comfortably but Leave... won everywhere else.

    How many big cities do you reckon there are in Aberdeenshire?
    Well technically if you really want to get pedantic Birmingham and Sheffield voted Leave despite being big cities but we were talking the overall trend ie Remain won a majority of the vote in big cities, Leave won a majority of the vote in rural areas and ex industrial and market towns
    The "big cities" thing wasn't me.
    If you want to have it out with with person who said that, have a word with that HYUFD guy. But watch out, he's a bit fighty and bit all over the place.
    No, you said 'Remain won in every part of Scotland' and were completely wrong as Banff and Buchan Westminster constituency voted 54% Leave

    In England, as happened in the 2011 AV referendum, the 326 districts were used as the local voting areas and the returns of these then fed into nine English regional counts. In Scotland the local voting areas were the 32 local councils which then fed their results into the Scottish national count

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum#Voting,_voting_areas,_and_counts
    This is a very funny PB pedant dispute, since of course not 'every part' of Scotland voted remain, if there was no constituency involved you could find a town or some other subdivision which did somewhere, which is why 'part' is meaningless as it has no definition. Even if the vote was 80/20 there'd be an estate or two which voted mostly leave and so not 'every' part would have been for Remain, but it wouldn't mean much! I know he's bigging up it's not one house it's a constituency, but the argument is over the word 'part' and so would have continued on a lesser scale without that element.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,662

    ohnotnow said:

    From John Redwood's blog:

    "I have long been critical of some UK plans to take us on the road to net zero. They entail making it very dear to use energy here so we import high energy using products from abroad. They stop us getting out our own oil and gas so we import more from overseas. They run down our food production from home farms, only to bring in more from abroad.

    All those who do think getting world CO2 down is a crucial priority should attack these plans, as they mean more CO 2 produced in shipping all the things to us. If we bring in more LNG gas that produces far more CO 2 in its compression, shipping and conversion than our own gas down a pipe. If we import German or Chinese steel they may produce more CO 2 in its manufacture than we do, but they will certainly produce more CO 2 in its transport.

    Today I want to concentrate on the damage these policies do to our state finances. They lose us lots of revenue, by substituting foreign for domestic production. All the super taxes paid on oil and gas output go to a foreign producer government not to the Treasury. All the taxes on wages and profits in making things go to overseas governments where the exporting factories lie. There is a major drain on our balance of payments which means the country has to borrow more from overseas to pay the bills in foreign currencies, leading to a higher debt interest burden. This is economic self harm on a grand scale... "

    Why do we live in a UK where these sorts of basic facts need to be spelled out as if to a 5yr old? Germany also has to grapple with Net Zero, but when it comes to keeping their economy on the rails, they're pulling down towns to dig coal mines.

    Satire of the highest order. Top stuff.
    Except he is right in every singke thing he says in that article.
    He is spot on that outsourcing CO2 still means the CO2 is produced... it just means it isn't produced in the UK.

    With that said, i'm not convinced on the "LNG produces more CO2" argument.

    Sure liquefaction involves energy (you do need to supercool the gas) and therefore emissions, but the amount of work required to bring a field onstream is probably going to account for a far higher proportion than any cost of cooling.

    This is one of these areas where the market is probably right. If it's cheaper to import LNG, then we should probably do it over subsidising local production.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,424
    rcs1000 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    From John Redwood's blog:

    "I have long been critical of some UK plans to take us on the road to net zero. They entail making it very dear to use energy here so we import high energy using products from abroad. They stop us getting out our own oil and gas so we import more from overseas. They run down our food production from home farms, only to bring in more from abroad.

    All those who do think getting world CO2 down is a crucial priority should attack these plans, as they mean more CO 2 produced in shipping all the things to us. If we bring in more LNG gas that produces far more CO 2 in its compression, shipping and conversion than our own gas down a pipe. If we import German or Chinese steel they may produce more CO 2 in its manufacture than we do, but they will certainly produce more CO 2 in its transport.

    Today I want to concentrate on the damage these policies do to our state finances. They lose us lots of revenue, by substituting foreign for domestic production. All the super taxes paid on oil and gas output go to a foreign producer government not to the Treasury. All the taxes on wages and profits iudisn making things go to overseas governments where the exporting factories lie. There is a major drain on our balance of payments which means the country has to borrow more from overseas to pay the bills in foreign currencies, leading to a higher debt interest burden. This is economic self harm on a grand scale... "

    Why do we live in a UK where these sorts of basic facts need to be spelled out as if to a 5yr old? Germany also has to grapple with Net Zero, but when it comes to keeping their economy on the rails, they're pulling down towns to dig coal mines.

    Satire of the highest order. Top stuff.
    Except he is right in every singke thing he says in that article.
    He is spot on that outsourcing CO2 still means the CO2 is produced... it just means it isn't produced in the UK.

    With that said, i'm not convinced on the "LNG produces more CO2" argument.

    Sure liquefaction involves energy (you do need to supercool the gas) and therefore emissions, but the amount of work required to bring a field onstream is probably going to account for a far higher proportion than any cost of cooling.

    This is one of these areas where the market is probably right. If it's cheaper to import LNG, then we should probably do it over subsidising local production.
    Iimport it from where, exactly? We have just had a year-long lesson in the folly of getting a strategic resource from a potentially hostile power. I am not qualified to do the numbers on CO2 and am suspicious of those who do. But we have had 50 years of entertaing the Russians and Saudis in return for their oil and gas, and if we can stop doing that and use our own, let's do that.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    rcs1000 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    From John Redwood's blog:

    "I have long been critical of some UK plans to take us on the road to net zero. They entail making it very dear to use energy here so we import high energy using products from abroad. They stop us getting out our own oil and gas so we import more from overseas. They run down our food production from home farms, only to bring in more from abroad.

    All those who do think getting world CO2 down is a crucial priority should attack these plans, as they mean more CO 2 produced in shipping all the things to us. If we bring in more LNG gas that produces far more CO 2 in its compression, shipping and conversion than our own gas down a pipe. If we import German or Chinese steel they may produce more CO 2 in its manufacture than we do, but they will certainly produce more CO 2 in its transport.

    Today I want to concentrate on the damage these policies do to our state finances. They lose us lots of revenue, by substituting foreign for domestic production. All the super taxes paid on oil and gas output go to a foreign producer government not to the Treasury. All the taxes on wages and profits in making things go to overseas governments where the exporting factories lie. There is a major drain on our balance of payments which means the country has to borrow more from overseas to pay the bills in foreign currencies, leading to a higher debt interest burden. This is economic self harm on a grand scale... "

    Why do we live in a UK where these sorts of basic facts need to be spelled out as if to a 5yr old? Germany also has to grapple with Net Zero, but when it comes to keeping their economy on the rails, they're pulling down towns to dig coal mines.

    Satire of the highest order. Top stuff.
    Except he is right in every singke thing he says in that article.
    He is spot on that outsourcing CO2 still means the CO2 is produced... it just means it isn't produced in the UK.

    With that said, i'm not convinced on the "LNG produces more CO2" argument.

    Sure liquefaction involves energy (you do need to supercool the gas) and therefore emissions, but the amount of work required to bring a field onstream is probably going to account for a far higher proportion than any cost of cooling.

    This is one of these areas where the market is probably right. If it's cheaper to import LNG, then we should probably do it over subsidising local production.
    It's a relatively marginal argument anyway. The bit that's evident nonsense is this:
    ...All those who do think getting world CO2 down is a crucial priority should attack these plans..
    Transition to net zero involves cost. Those who think it a 'crucial priority' will prioritise doing so - and demonstrating to the rest of the world that it's feasible - over comparatively small differences in cost.

    Redwood might disagree with their position, but his argument on how they should reason is indeed nonsense.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    edited May 2023
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    Erdogan wins the Turkish presidential election by 52% to 48%. The golden ratio.

    Kılıçdaroğlu wins Ankara and Istanbul and the main Turkish liberal urban areas but Erdogan looks to have swept more conservative rural Turkey and less wealthy areas.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2023/may/28/turkey-election-results-presidential-vote-round-two
    He's won everywhere which isn't Istanbul, Ankara, Mediterranean Coast or Kurdish east.
    Country is very divided geographically.
    Looks very much like the Brexit vote or US 2016 election yes, Remain and Hillary won the big cities comfortably but Leave and Trump won everywhere else
    Remain won in every part of Scotland
    Banff and Buchan voted Leave and even in Scotland urban areas were much more Remain than rural areas
    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scottish-constituency-of-banff-and-buchan-voted-for-brexit-1462018
    Every council area in Scotland voted Remain. All of them. Rural or urban. All.
    As I said Banff and Buchan, a constituency of over 50,000 people and predominantly rural and coastal fishing ports, voted 54% Leave so your statement Remain won in every part of Scotland was wrong
    Every single council area, HYUFD. All of them.
    NOT every single part of Scotland though which is what you said
    Yeah, well, Tam down the way in number 12, he lives alone and he voted Alba so I guess Alba won "parts" of Scotland too. Just the one hoose ken, but it counts.
    We are talking a whole parliamentary constituency, not 1 house. As I said Banff and Buchan voted 54% Leave
    We're talking about council areas because that's how it's been widely reported.

    In any case you're wrong:
    Remain... won the big cities comfortably but Leave... won everywhere else.

    How many big cities do you reckon there are in Aberdeenshire?
    Well technically if you really want to get pedantic Birmingham and Sheffield voted Leave despite being big cities but we were talking the overall trend ie Remain won a majority of the vote in big cities, Leave won a majority of the vote in rural areas and ex industrial and market towns
    The "big cities" thing wasn't me.
    If you want to have it out with with person who said that, have a word with that HYUFD guy. But watch out, he's a bit fighty and bit all over the place.
    No, you said 'Remain won in every part of Scotland' and were completely wrong as Banff and Buchan Westminster constituency voted 54% Leave

    In England, as happened in the 2011 AV referendum, the 326 districts were used as the local voting areas and the returns of these then fed into nine English regional counts. In Scotland the local voting areas were the 32 local councils which then fed their results into the Scottish national count

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum#Voting,_voting_areas,_and_counts
    This is a very funny PB pedant dispute, since of course not 'every part' of Scotland voted remain, if there was no constituency involved you could find a town or some other subdivision which did somewhere, which is why 'part' is meaningless as it has no definition. Even if the vote was 80/20 there'd be an estate or two which voted mostly leave and so not 'every' part would have been for Remain, but it wouldn't mean much! I know he's bigging up it's not one house it's a constituency, but the argument is over the word 'part' and so would have continued on a lesser scale without that element.
    Given that large numbers of leave voters have changed their minds, it's about as relevant as a discussion of the Corn Laws.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    DeSantis accused of ‘catastrophic’ climate approach after campaign launch
    Republican ‘trying to out-Trump Trump’ on climate, expert says, as governor says he rejects the ‘politicization of the weather’
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/may/28/ron-desantis-climate-crisis-campaign
    ...DeSantis, the Republican Florida governor who announced his bid for the White House via a glitch-heavy Twitter stream on Wednesday, has previously dismissed concerns about global heating as “leftwing stuff” and he expanded upon this theme during a Fox News interview following his campaign launch...

    ...While governor, DeSantis has adopted bills banning Florida’s cities from adopting 100% clean energy goals and barred the state’s pension fund from making investment decisions that consider the climate crisis due to what he called a corporate attempt to “impose an ideological agenda on the American people”. He has also attacked the US military for being “woke” for warning about the national security risks posed by climate impacts...


    DeSantis makes Redwood look a genius, as he argues his policies aren't political.
This discussion has been closed.