Morning everyone. How is work going this dreary Monday morning?
PB Brains Trust.
What is the best Greek Island for a family break (4 yr old kid)? Sandy beach and decent hotel/resort.
So many imponderables!
Do you want
1 an airport for direct flights? 2 some history/culture or just sun and sea (no shame in that)? 3 to avoid mass tourism or be part of the crowds? 4 greenery and woods or classic whitewashed towns and windmills? 5 fashionable or don’t care?
1 Yes. 2 some history though we do have a young son so tricky terrain is probably a no-no. 3 don’t mind but not too crowded. 4 the later. 5 Not bothered.
Our first major vacation since kiddo was born so something memorable!
Then I would go for Rhodes. It has all those. There are a few tacky/crowded areas but drive a couple of miles and you can find sweet fishing towns which aren’t TOO touristy
And Rhodes City is a wonder. A beautiful complete medieval town. Again you won’t exactly be alone but it is still somehow magical
You’ll need to hire a car for a day or two to see some of the lonelier temples/lovelier castles
I'd skip the direct flight requirement and take a ferry from the island airport, which for the price of an hour or so at sea will deliver you a more characterful, less crowded experience. My recs would be Simi or Kalymnos.
@murali_s has a 4 year old. I can see why he wants a direct flight and not a flight plus ferry. Rhodes is a good option
Anywhere in Greece with a significant airport is gonna be touristy. Just a fact
Crete also fits his requirements. But avoid the REALLY touristy towns on the north coast. Beautiful Venetian old towns but lots of ugly overdevelopment
It seems the board/senior management have been paid bonuses they are not entitled to based on false information. The CEO will repay it but they are still considering whether the others should. I wonder if there will be a fraud investigation.....
It beggars belief, that knowing what had gone on and that the Management were responsible, as it was on their watch, that they thought any kind of bonus was appropriate.
Does it beggar belief more than the fact that these people, who prima facie conspired to pervert the course of justice, have not only not been prosecuted but are still in their jobs?
It may beggar belief. But it is also standard operating procedure around the world.
Above a certain level, there is no failure. Well failure is redefined as “Nothing will happen to you. At the very, very worst, you will lose your job. With a golden goodbye. Then a new job will be sorted out for you. Golden hello, more money”
When one of the senior people responsible for covering up Rotherham was offered a bigger, better job, running a child care organisation, overseas, someone suggested that providing a reference wasn’t the right thing to do.
This was described as “disgusting” and “vindictive”. The reference was provided.
This scandal is like Hillsborough, the authorities protect their own and not the victims.
No one will serve time for this shocking miscarriage of justice.
Perhaps, but unlike Liverpool we don't have a planet-sized chip on our shoulder and wallow in mawkish sentimentality and ugly self-pity, so we'll focus our efforts on change not bile.
You really are a twat when it comes to Liverpool.
At least 41 lives could have been saved that day if the authorities hadn’t screwed up and then covered it up.
Nothing has changed, nobody has served time for the deaths of 97 people.
I'd have stopped at word five.
Hmm. I'll save this one for the next time you complain about anyone getting personal at you.
Thanks for my first ever "flag". A badge of honour knowing it was awarded by you.
Liverpool should be nuked and levelled. Maybe we evacuate a few musicians first.
We can then start again. It hasn't worked.
Just because you didn't get a ticket for Eurovision...
You know what they say.. 1st prize 2 tickets to Eurovision 2nd prize 4 tickets to Eurovision....
Be thankful you dont live in Qatar - every Saturday morning the local radio station (there is only one in English Language) plays two hours of non-stop Eurovision entries. There is currently also an extra program in weekday evenings playing current entries......
It seems the board/senior management have been paid bonuses they are not entitled to based on false information. The CEO will repay it but they are still considering whether the others should. I wonder if there will be a fraud investigation.....
It beggars belief, that knowing what had gone on and that the Management were responsible, as it was on their watch, that they thought any kind of bonus was appropriate.
Does it beggar belief more than the fact that these people, who prima facie conspired to pervert the course of justice, have not only not been prosecuted but are still in their jobs?
It may beggar belief. But it is also standard operating procedure around the world.
Above a certain level, there is no failure. Well failure is redefined as “Nothing will happen to you. At the very, very worst, you will lose your job. With a golden goodbye. Then a new job will be sorted out for you. Golden hello, more money”
When one of the senior people responsible for covering up Rotherham was offered a bigger, better job, running a child care organisation, overseas, someone suggested that providing a reference wasn’t the right thing to do.
This was described as “disgusting” and “vindictive”. The reference was provided.
This is what I call the New Upper 10,000
Funny, I call them a word that contains N, U and T as well.
Just not in that order and you See from the start...
Morning everyone. How is work going this dreary Monday morning?
PB Brains Trust.
What is the best Greek Island for a family break (4 yr old kid)? Sandy beach and decent hotel/resort.
So many imponderables!
Do you want
1 an airport for direct flights? 2 some history/culture or just sun and sea (no shame in that)? 3 to avoid mass tourism or be part of the crowds? 4 greenery and woods or classic whitewashed towns and windmills? 5 fashionable or don’t care?
1 Yes. 2 some history though we do have a young son so tricky terrain is probably a no-no. 3 don’t mind but not too crowded. 4 the later. 5 Not bothered.
Our first major vacation since kiddo was born so something memorable!
Then I would go for Rhodes. It has all those. There are a few tacky/crowded areas but drive a couple of miles and you can find sweet fishing towns which aren’t TOO touristy
And Rhodes City is a wonder. A beautiful complete medieval town. Again you won’t exactly be alone but it is still somehow magical
You’ll need to hire a car for a day or two to see some of the lonelier temples/lovelier castles
I'd skip the direct flight requirement and take a ferry from the island airport, which for the price of an hour or so at sea will deliver you a more characterful, less crowded experience. My recs would be Simi or Kalymnos.
@murali_s has a 4 year old. I can see why he wants a direct flight and not a flight plus ferry. Rhodes is a good option
Anywhere in Greece with a significant airport is gonna be touristy. Just a fact
Crete also fits his requirements. But avoid the REALLY touristy towns on the north coast. Beautiful Venetian old towns but lots of ugly overdevelopment
Head east or south from the airport
The Hania end of Crete is by far the best.
The remarkable thing about the Greek islands is that you can spend the whole day travelling, with a morning flight followed by a transfer to the port followed by an hour or two on the ferry, slog up the hill with your stuff, and yet that same evening sitting in the harbour taverna with your grilled fish and retsina it already feels like you're relaxed and have been there ages.
This scandal is like Hillsborough, the authorities protect their own and not the victims.
No one will serve time for this shocking miscarriage of justice.
Perhaps, but unlike Liverpool we don't have a planet-sized chip on our shoulder and wallow in mawkish sentimentality and ugly self-pity, so we'll focus our efforts on change not bile.
You really are a twat when it comes to Liverpool.
At least 41 lives could have been saved that day if the authorities hadn’t screwed up and then covered it up.
Nothing has changed, nobody has served time for the deaths of 97 people.
I'd have stopped at word five.
Hmm. I'll save this one for the next time you complain about anyone getting personal at you.
Thanks for my first ever "flag". A badge of honour knowing it was awarded by you.
Liverpool should be nuked and levelled. Maybe we evacuate a few musicians first.
We can then start again. It hasn't worked.
Why do PB allow you to write such prejudicial nonsense without sanction? You wouldn't stereotype a specific race or creed, so why is it acceptable for the citizens of a city you don't like to be slandered by you?
Anyway off to polish my "flag".
I am describing the culture of the city. And I have said not all are like that, but many are.
I was very offended and insulted by the behaviour of Liverpool fans booing the national anthem the day before yesterday. Hillsborough was and is a scandal, that is for sure, and it needs redressing, but (honestly?) I think even if it were this wouldn't go away. No redress would never be enough and/or that legitimate grievance would be replaced by something else in the victim culture: class, snobbery, Fatch etc. There is something profoundly illogical here. The Royal Family had nothing to do with it - they are just a symbol and following through on that by targetting them has made them look disloyal, angry, aggressive and disrespectful and upset a lot of people.
I am now disinclined to lift a finger to help them - unlike I would for Aberfan and the Post Office scandal - which will no doubt reinforce their grievance. So the most likely outcome is that this goes on and on. I think it's important the facts and behaviour are called out so a change can be made.
Think about it.
The people of Liverpool are utterly distraught that you "are disinclined to lift a finger to help them". How will they cope?
By trying to ban me and call me a bigot, it seems.
Banning you would mean we can't ridicule you. Where's the fun in that?
I don't mind a bit of ridicule. It's probably healthy at some level.
I do mind the T and C word a bit though, and being called a bigot. We're better than that.
This subject seems to make otherwise normal people totally irrational.
You are a bit bigoted, though. You hate people who arent ultra monarchists, poor people, Scousers, Vegans, eco-activists, anyone who votes Green. You'd see me arrested and beaten up by the police or event stewards for protesting animal rights or climate change whereas I'd be ashamed if that happened to you. Maybe more than a bit bigoted?
Err, no.
I think you just take yourself, and what I say on here, a little bit too seriously.
Fella, I'd say most people on here feel the same about you. This is the internet, it doesn't do nuance, tone and context so I'm more than willing to believe that that's not the real you, but your posts say otherwise. You sound pretty angry these days.
I use this site to vent a bit, sometimes without much/any of a filter.
It's not representative of what I'm like in real life, as several pb'ers who've met me will attest to, but we're all very interested in politics and issues on here, and it's a passionate and intense subject, and my wife can only take so much.
We all come on here to let off steam (see the Collected Works of Malcomg Esq) don’t worry about it
Tho you do seem a little more dyspeptic than usual, but you have also explained your new job is stressing you out bigtime
I am trying to do something about that.
My review gave me a high performer, and accelerated track to Partner, but at what cost?
I spend all my time working basically.
That's the trade off with these jobs. Having been at partner level for more than 10 years it doesn't get any easier!
It's a challenging and exciting job, and one that is well rewarded, but if you don't enjoy it, or the cost to your family is too great, get out before you get too used to the money.
One of the problems it seems to me in Britain is that we don't often enough hold the people at the top in business properly responsible for the actions of their companies. Although there was a technical failure with regard to the computer systems, the issue in the PO case was not ultimately about the computer systems but about how the senior manegment of the PO and their subordinates reacted to the fact that their system had failed and innocent people were having their lives ruined. This is about a failure of humans, not machines and a failure of moral and responsible leadership.
In the wake of the 2008 financial crisis Iceland jailed 25 bankers for up to 6 years. Spain jailed 11 bankers and businessmen and Ireland 7. Germany, Italy and Cyrpus all jailed bankers for their failings.
....All that crap that spewed out about the Monarchy over the last few days.
Indeed! What a waste of mental energy. By any normal standard the monarchy is massively popular or its alternatives are massively UNpopular. It’s just not gonna happen. “Become a republic” Is not on the top 100 items on the to-do list of anyone sane. It would be such a fucking boring load of arse-ache work, for a start. And for what?
It would make Brexit look like “choosing a different brand of marmalade” in terms of painful choices
What about the native Americans? What about the Chinese used as virtual slave labour in the railways? What about non black slaves? What about whites whose forefathers were slaved by Barbary pirates?
This to me looks like the ultimate example of Woke Gone Mad and perhaps the only way you could ever turn California Republican
FWIW I am reading an interesting book at the moment.
This scandal is like Hillsborough, the authorities protect their own and not the victims.
No one will serve time for this shocking miscarriage of justice.
One of the more egregious double miscarriages of justice was when the retired South Wales Police detectives who had allegedly "fitted up" the Cardiff Three for Lynette White's murder went to court, the case was thrown out because serving South Wales Police detectives "mislaid" all the evidence against their erstwhile colleagues. Talk about a happy coincidence. Fortunately after the acquittals the evidence was found, so no harm done.
If you can't look after your own, who can you look after?
Your are looking at the negatives there. Another way of looking at it is that SWP have a friendly, inclusive culture where officers instead of being selfish, really go the extra mile for colleagues.
Just as in Northern Ireland the CIRA has broadened its recruitment of contract murders to include Loyalist terrorists. This kind of rejection of the community barriers, outreach and evident interest in increasing diversity in Republican Terrorist community is a good thing. Right?
The tragedy of Penny Mordaunt's tilt at the Tory Leadership is that she actually appears to have empathy, even her political opponents in Portsmouth North give her credit for being a decent human being. But in the leadership contest she felt forced to deny her own empathy and get on the Culture War Train.
A decent Tory leader needs to come in and say, look I just won't go there, there are other issues. David Cameron and Osborne treaded that line - in my own very biased view - quite well.
I think quite honestly the Labour line of, we should treat people with love and compassion, is a good start. I don't doubt there are many issues of which we have discussed here and I am open to have my mind changed - but too many start from a position of hatred.
Is it a position of hatred to think that women’s sports should be reserved for biological females?
Possibly? Sport is a very wide category and it is clear that in many sports the additional strength of an non transitioned trans woman would be completely unfair. There are other sports like equestrian events where males and females already complete in single category competition so trans athletes in there should be a non-issue, Darts is another one where there's no reason why a trans woman would be at an advantage. For other sports it may be that some form of hormone treatment is required before the playing field is fair, that could be based on length of time or maximum testosterone limits. There are probably other sports where the effect of male puberty means that equal competition can never be achieved and in those cases it would be fair to exclude trans women.
So is it hatred? It would be if the motivation is to exclude trans women because you don't like trans women. It's not if the motivation is fairness to cis women competitors. But I want decisions like that to be made with careful study and science not by placards and chanting from either side of the argument.
The tragedy of Penny Mordaunt's tilt at the Tory Leadership is that she actually appears to have empathy, even her political opponents in Portsmouth North give her credit for being a decent human being. But in the leadership contest she felt forced to deny her own empathy and get on the Culture War Train.
A decent Tory leader needs to come in and say, look I just won't go there, there are other issues. David Cameron and Osborne treaded that line - in my own very biased view - quite well.
I think quite honestly the Labour line of, we should treat people with love and compassion, is a good start. I don't doubt there are many issues of which we have discussed here and I am open to have my mind changed - but too many start from a position of hatred.
Is it a position of hatred to think that women’s sports should be reserved for biological females?
Possibly? Sport is a very wide category and it is clear that in many sports the additional strength of an non transitioned trans woman would be completely unfair. There are other sports like equestrian events where males and females already complete in single category competition so trans athletes in there should be a non-issue, Darts is another one where there's no reason why a trans woman would be at an advantage. For other sports it may be that some form of hormone treatment is required before the playing field is fair, that could be based on length of time or maximum testosterone limits. There are probably other sports where the effect of male puberty means that equal competition can never be achieved and in those cases it would be fair to exclude trans women.
So is it hatred? It would be if the motivation is to exclude trans women because you don't like trans women. It's not if the motivation is fairness to cis women competitors. But I want decisions like that to be made with careful study and science not by placards and chanting from either side of the argument.
Sport is (or should be) inherently international which is another reason these decisions should (mostly) be left to governing bodies rather than domestic politicians.
You can now walk from Chichester to Leamington Spa and the only time you will leave a LibDem majority controlled council area is to run across a couple of Tory fields in Wokingham, and even there the LibDems will likely be running the council as the largest party.
Just so you know.
Like the old saying about squirrels (!) and trees in England, though I forget whose land it was actually about.
Morning everyone. How is work going this dreary Monday morning?
PB Brains Trust.
What is the best Greek Island for a family break (4 yr old kid)? Sandy beach and decent hotel/resort.
So many imponderables!
Do you want
1 an airport for direct flights? 2 some history/culture or just sun and sea (no shame in that)? 3 to avoid mass tourism or be part of the crowds? 4 greenery and woods or classic whitewashed towns and windmills? 5 fashionable or don’t care?
1 Yes. 2 some history though we do have a young son so tricky terrain is probably a no-no. 3 don’t mind but not too crowded. 4 the later. 5 Not bothered.
Our first major vacation since kiddo was born so something memorable!
Then I would go for Rhodes. It has all those. There are a few tacky/crowded areas but drive a couple of miles and you can find sweet fishing towns which aren’t TOO touristy
And Rhodes City is a wonder. A beautiful complete medieval town. Again you won’t exactly be alone but it is still somehow magical
You’ll need to hire a car for a day or two to see some of the lonelier temples/lovelier castles
I'd skip the direct flight requirement and take a ferry from the island airport, which for the price of an hour or so at sea will deliver you a more characterful, less crowded experience. My recs would be Simi or Kalymnos.
@murali_s has a 4 year old. I can see why he wants a direct flight and not a flight plus ferry. Rhodes is a good option
Anywhere in Greece with a significant airport is gonna be touristy. Just a fact
Crete also fits his requirements. But avoid the REALLY touristy towns on the north coast. Beautiful Venetian old towns but lots of ugly overdevelopment
Head east or south from the airport
The Hania end of Crete is by far the best.
The remarkable thing about the Greek islands is that you can spend the whole day travelling, with a morning flight followed by a transfer to the port followed by an hour or two on the ferry, slog up the hill with your stuff, and yet that same evening sitting in the harbour taverna with your grilled fish and retsina it already feels like you're relaxed and have been there ages.
I love Greece. Parts of Crete are absolutely exquisite - NOT the Hania, western end. Too touristy
This photo was taken in Elounda, eastern Crete. Empty and beautiful and sublime
So what was actually wrong with the software - riddled with bugs or not built to do what others thought it should be doing?
Nobody has been able to answer that except in vague terms. I suspect nobody really knows. Or maybe all those Tubbs types running post offices really were on the rob. Lol.
It seems the board/senior management have been paid bonuses they are not entitled to based on false information. The CEO will repay it but they are still considering whether the others should. I wonder if there will be a fraud investigation.....
Not if they are tory donors
That's rather too cynical.. Still suffering from turnip poisoning.?
Stay classy, not Tory
I have been off and on here since GE2005 and I still haven't got a Scooby Doo as to what this turnip caper is all about. Is it a private joke between you and the more enthusiastic PB Tories?
Yes it is , when I first started I called stupid people turnips etc and it went from there to turnips with everything. Hence they say I am on the turnip juice when disliking my retorts etc. I am very partial to haggis neeps and tatties as well. @Mexicanpete
The tragedy of Penny Mordaunt's tilt at the Tory Leadership is that she actually appears to have empathy, even her political opponents in Portsmouth North give her credit for being a decent human being. But in the leadership contest she felt forced to deny her own empathy and get on the Culture War Train.
A decent Tory leader needs to come in and say, look I just won't go there, there are other issues. David Cameron and Osborne treaded that line - in my own very biased view - quite well.
I think quite honestly the Labour line of, we should treat people with love and compassion, is a good start. I don't doubt there are many issues of which we have discussed here and I am open to have my mind changed - but too many start from a position of hatred.
Is it a position of hatred to think that women’s sports should be reserved for biological females?
Possibly? Sport is a very wide category and it is clear that in many sports the additional strength of an non transitioned trans woman would be completely unfair. There are other sports like equestrian events where males and females already complete in single category competition so trans athletes in there should be a non-issue, Darts is another one where there's no reason why a trans woman would be at an advantage. For other sports it may be that some form of hormone treatment is required before the playing field is fair, that could be based on length of time or maximum testosterone limits. There are probably other sports where the effect of male puberty means that equal competition can never be achieved and in those cases it would be fair to exclude trans women.
So is it hatred? It would be if the motivation is to exclude trans women because you don't like trans women. It's not if the motivation is fairness to cis women competitors. But I want decisions like that to be made with careful study and science not by placards and chanting from either side of the argument.
The problem is that this debate has become so utterly binary, the ability for sensible argument and discussion has long gone.
There are people here who I disagree with on this but I don't doubt they are coming at it from the right place. They should be the people arguing about this properly.
The issue is that the people actually doing the arguing are the same people who used to tell us that if we allowed gay marriage you'd be marrying a farm animal today, if we allowed homosexuality all our schools would be full of paedophiles and if we allowed women the vote society would collapse.
So what was actually wrong with the software - riddled with bugs or not built to do what others thought it should be doing?
I watched some of the inquiry where they asked one of the computer experts who worked on it. He said he couldn't remember because it was so long ago. (Work started on it in the late 1990s IIRC).
So what was actually wrong with the software - riddled with bugs or not built to do what others thought it should be doing?
Nobody has been able to answer that except in vague terms. I suspect nobody really knows. Or maybe all those Tubbs types running post offices really were on the rob. Lol.
For the first 10 years of Horizon’s existence, transaction and account data was stored on terminals in each branch before being uploaded to a central database via ISDN. Our source says this part of the system simply did not work.
“The cash account was a piece of software that sat on the counter NT box, asleep all day,” he said. “At the end of the day, or a particular point in the day, it came to life, and it ran through the message store from the point it last finished. It started at a watermark from yesterday and combed through every transaction in the message store, up until the next watermark.
“A lot of the messages in there were nonsense, because there was no data dictionary, there was no API that enforced message integrity. The contents of the message were freehand, you could write whatever you wanted in the code, and everybody did it differently. And then, when you came back three weeks later, you could write it differently again.”
He gave an example of a message stored previously when a customer bought a stamp. It was feasible that a new message for buying a stamp weeks later could be slightly different.
“When the cash count came along, it found a message it was not expecting and either ignored it, tripped up, or added something it shouldn’t be adding,” he said.
The Met said it had "a duty to intervene when protest becomes criminal and may cause serious disruption". Commander Karen Findlay, who led the Met's policing operation during the Coronation, said on Saturday: "Earlier this week we said our tolerance for any disruption, whether through protest or otherwise, will be low and that we would deal robustly with anyone intent on undermining the celebration."
This is incredibly sinister!
The bar has now been set so low, if I oppose the Government in public it seems like I can now arrested.
This scandal is like Hillsborough, the authorities protect their own and not the victims.
No one will serve time for this shocking miscarriage of justice.
Perhaps, but unlike Liverpool we don't have a planet-sized chip on our shoulder and wallow in mawkish sentimentality and ugly self-pity, so we'll focus our efforts on change not bile.
You really are a twat when it comes to Liverpool.
At least 41 lives could have been saved that day if the authorities hadn’t screwed up and then covered it up.
Nothing has changed, nobody has served time for the deaths of 97 people.
It’s not just Hillsborough though. Liverpool’s decline as a city was mainly down to appalling industrial relations and terrible local councillors. And, that was the responsibility of Liverpudlians.
The only thing you get from Liverpudlians any time you point out their behaviour to them is "Hillsborough" and raw abuse.
One can only conclude that being wronged against has become part of their culture, probably to avoid having to face up to their own failings, and they channel a secret hatred of themselves into rage at others.
Because it is a legitimate grievance "Hillsborough" is enough of a justification for it to last several generations.
Liverpool is a city and culture that revels in its victim status and uses it as a shield for why it's such a shit hole rather than looking within at their own failings and voting in politicians who are knowingly corrupt but because they have the correct colour rosette they win by default. It's always someone else's fault, never their own fault for, you know, being chronically lazy and unemployed.
I won't disagree with the second part, about voting Labour. It's pretty terrible around here. Labour don't care, because they've won, and the others don't care because they can't win (and therefore it can't really be blamed on them as they're not in charge).
But the same could be said about many other areas in the country. How many seats just vote Conservative without any thinking why?
Tory seats are almost always more competitive over the years. For example Castle Point is one of the safest seats in the country now but it went Labour in 1997. A bit like Bootle going Tory.
This scandal is like Hillsborough, the authorities protect their own and not the victims.
No one will serve time for this shocking miscarriage of justice.
Perhaps, but unlike Liverpool we don't have a planet-sized chip on our shoulder and wallow in mawkish sentimentality and ugly self-pity, so we'll focus our efforts on change not bile.
You really are a twat when it comes to Liverpool.
At least 41 lives could have been saved that day if the authorities hadn’t screwed up and then covered it up.
Nothing has changed, nobody has served time for the deaths of 97 people.
How many lives could have been saved at Heysel if so many Liverpool fans weren’t drunken, homicidal louts?
It’s incredible how much Liverpool FC witters on about Hillsborough (which was undeniably awful) yet NEVER mentions Heysel. It’s not like they were centuries apart
Casino tees them up for you, and you hit them straight and true down the fairway of Political Betting.
Edwards II, III and IV tried to banned football on the grounds of public danger and nuisance.
They were of the opinion that mandatory assault weapon practise was better for the commonweal.
They should absolutely sue the Met. How can anyone defend this? Would anyone like to try?
I think it's clear that the downside of failing to keep protests constrained was far greater than it normally would have been. A precautionary approach was clearly the right one.
I can't see why the Met don't say much as the above.
The Met said it had "a duty to intervene when protest becomes criminal and may cause serious disruption". Commander Karen Findlay, who led the Met's policing operation during the Coronation, said on Saturday: "Earlier this week we said our tolerance for any disruption, whether through protest or otherwise, will be low and that we would deal robustly with anyone intent on undermining the celebration."
This is incredibly sinister!
The bar has now been set so low, if I oppose the Government in public it seems like I can now arrested.
The perfect strategy for the coming General Election. The trial to bar poor people from voting by demanding ID they do not have evidently failed.
So now simply arrest anyone who plans to conspire to create a public nuisance by not voting Conservative.
This scandal is like Hillsborough, the authorities protect their own and not the victims.
No one will serve time for this shocking miscarriage of justice.
Perhaps, but unlike Liverpool we don't have a planet-sized chip on our shoulder and wallow in mawkish sentimentality and ugly self-pity, so we'll focus our efforts on change not bile.
You really are a twat when it comes to Liverpool.
At least 41 lives could have been saved that day if the authorities hadn’t screwed up and then covered it up.
Nothing has changed, nobody has served time for the deaths of 97 people.
I'd have stopped at word five.
Hmm. I'll save this one for the next time you complain about anyone getting personal at you.
Thanks for my first ever "flag". A badge of honour knowing it was awarded by you.
Liverpool should be nuked and levelled. Maybe we evacuate a few musicians first.
We can then start again. It hasn't worked.
Why do PB allow you to write such prejudicial nonsense without sanction? You wouldn't stereotype a specific race or creed, so why is it acceptable for the citizens of a city you don't like to be slandered by you?
Anyway off to polish my "flag".
I am describing the culture of the city. And I have said not all are like that, but many are.
I was very offended and insulted by the behaviour of Liverpool fans booing the national anthem the day before yesterday. Hillsborough was and is a scandal, that is for sure, and it needs redressing, but (honestly?) I think even if it were this wouldn't go away. No redress would never be enough and/or that legitimate grievance would be replaced by something else in the victim culture: class, snobbery, Fatch etc. There is something profoundly illogical here. The Royal Family had nothing to do with it - they are just a symbol and following through on that by targetting them has made them look disloyal, angry, aggressive and disrespectful and upset a lot of people.
I am now disinclined to lift a finger to help them - unlike I would for Aberfan and the Post Office scandal - which will no doubt reinforce their grievance. So the most likely outcome is that this goes on and on. I think it's important the facts and behaviour are called out so a change can be made.
Think about it.
The people of Liverpool are utterly distraught that you "are disinclined to lift a finger to help them". How will they cope?
By trying to ban me and call me a bigot, it seems.
Banning you would mean we can't ridicule you. Where's the fun in that?
I don't mind a bit of ridicule. It's probably healthy at some level.
I do mind the T and C word a bit though, and being called a bigot. We're better than that.
This subject seems to make otherwise normal people totally irrational.
You are a bit bigoted, though. You hate people who arent ultra monarchists, poor people, Scousers, Vegans, eco-activists, anyone who votes Green. You'd see me arrested and beaten up by the police or event stewards for protesting animal rights or climate change whereas I'd be ashamed if that happened to you. Maybe more than a bit bigoted?
Err, no.
I think you just take yourself, and what I say on here, a little bit too seriously.
Fella, I'd say most people on here feel the same about you. This is the internet, it doesn't do nuance, tone and context so I'm more than willing to believe that that's not the real you, but your posts say otherwise. You sound pretty angry these days.
I use this site to vent a bit, sometimes without much/any of a filter.
It's not representative of what I'm like in real life, as several pb'ers who've met me will attest to, but we're all very interested in politics and issues on here, and it's a passionate and intense subject, and my wife can only take so much.
We all come on here to let off steam (see the Collected Works of Malcomg Esq) don’t worry about it
Tho you do seem a little more dyspeptic than usual, but you have also explained your new job is stressing you out bigtime
I am trying to do something about that.
My review gave me a high performer, and accelerated track to Partner, but at what cost?
I spend all my time working basically.
Shift down to a 4 day week if you can afford to. It will do wonders for your mental state. I work half days on Friday but that's become a company policy rather than specific to me and it's been amazing being able to wrap up the week at around lunch time since we started doing it. Overall I'd say our productivity is up as well because people are properly rested on Monday and Tuesday so we get a lot more out of them and all we've done is turn unofficially clocking off at 3ish (officially when we were in office on Fridays) to officially calling it a half day at 1ish.
The problem with this scandal is that it is complicated. What actually happened? AIUI the Fujitsu system was supposed to provide a management system that would operate the post office for people for whom that was only a part of their business, a counter in a shop. It was designed to allow them to deal with the various post office functions such as making deposits and savings in Post Office savings accounts, the huge range of government services and charges that have to be paid and actual post office functions like parcels and letters.
Somehow, and I have yet to read an account of this that makes much sense, the system created "holes" in the accounts, deficits that did not actually exist but which the sub-post masters were held to account for. And that is where it gets absurdly complicated because it surely should have been obvious to anyone who looked at the results that the service did not actually have these deficits. Put it another way, had those deficits been paid the service would have been performing quite exceptionally with highly unlikely levels of turnover and profit. But somehow the rubbish out of the systems was not identified, no one would accept that the system was making it up.
The other thing that was odd about it is that the sub-postmasters were not naïve fools about business or accounts. They, largely, ran their own discrete businesses with their own accounts, profits and losses, bank accounts etc. It should have been obvious to them that if these deficits were real the post office counter was running at a ridiculous loss. And where was the accounting for these deficits? Where were the counterbalancing surpluses, who got them? Presumably the Post Office. Did they not understand their own accounts well enough to realise something was going wrong?
I think @Cyclefree may be being a little harsh with the lawyers. They would have been told very little, that there was a deficit on the accounts and that the explanation was that the sub-postmaster had dipped into it and stolen money that they held in trust but did not belong to them. What more does a prosecutor need? But the accountants must surely have realised that something was not right, that there were deficits with no corresponding surpluses, where was the evidence of the money actually hitting the accounts of the sub-postmasters? And yet, concerns expressed were disregarded because so much had been invested in the system that it was impossible to accept that it did not work. There are many lessons to be learned here as well as an injustice to be made good as soon as possible.
AIUI the subpostmasters did complain, often loudly. But they were told the computer was right. The assumption was that they had taken the cash and used it to subsidise their daily life, with the result that there was a deficit with no surplus *recorded on the system*
Worse than that, as outlined in the header, the judge ruled that the computer output was beyond challenge by the defence, it was assumed to be legally factual information.
What boggles the mind is that accounting is just adding and subtracting. We're not talking MegaCorp with complex off-shore tax dodging schemes. We're talking small post offices taking and issuing relatively small amounts of cash over the counter. The computer can say "£10k unaccounted for" but it would have been blindingly obvious to anyone who can add that it isn't.
Like when my Quickbooks says I am -£6k because it has double counted a transaction until I correct it. My account isn't showing -£6k. The transaction doing that isn't in my bank record, so only a moron would take the computer as gospel and ignore all other evidence. And yet that is what they did at the Post Office.
Over and over and over again. So many criminals suddenly appointed to run sub post office branches! That in itself should have been a scandal! Why since the new computer system came in have we employed so many crooks?
Because they already thought they had a bunch of crooks running post offices, and the new system told them exactly what they wanted to hear.
That and the fact that had spent a lot of money on Horizon and did not want to admit that they had wasted it. I suspect the latter was probably even more important for those high up in the management chain.
I am trying to get my head round how a thread header describing a vast corruption, fraud and perjury scandal for which no one has ever been punished and no victims ever compensated ended up as a Two Minutes' Hate on Liverpool.
I get it started with Hillsborough and the cover up there, but it still seems the weirdest of weird non sequitur.
Snowflakes offended by the boos on Saturday.
So it's snowflakery if our national anthem and new Head of State is insulted and bigotry if we strongly criticise those who did it?
I am trying to get my head round how a thread header describing a vast corruption, fraud and perjury scandal for which no one has ever been punished and no victims ever compensated ended up as a Two Minutes' Hate on Liverpool.
I get it started with Hillsborough and the cover up there, but it still seems the weirdest of weird non sequitur.
Snowflakes offended by the boos on Saturday.
So it's snowflakery if our national anthem and new Head of State is insulted and bigotry if we strongly criticise those who did it?
Got it.
Do you think it's acceptable that people that protest the King peacefully should be arrested?
It seems the board/senior management have been paid bonuses they are not entitled to based on false information. The CEO will repay it but they are still considering whether the others should. I wonder if there will be a fraud investigation.....
Not if they are tory donors
That's rather too cynical.. Still suffering from turnip poisoning.?
Stay classy, not Tory
I have been off and on here since GE2005 and I still haven't got a Scooby Doo as to what this turnip caper is all about. Is it a private joke between you and the more enthusiastic PB Tories?
Yes it is , when I first started I called stupid people turnips etc and it went from there to turnips with everything. Hence they say I am on the turnip juice when disliking my retorts etc. I am very partial to haggis neeps and tatties as well. @Mexicanpete
Young white turnip season coming too, to have simmered with lamb, hoggett or mutton. Yum.
They should absolutely sue the Met. How can anyone defend this? Would anyone like to try?
I think it's clear that the downside of failing to keep protests constrained was far greater than it normally would have been. A precautionary approach was clearly the right one.
I can't see why the Met don't say much as the above.
It was a sh!tty situation for the Met and security services, given the recent background of demonstrations aiming for maximum disruption to events. They were damned if they did, and damned if they didn’t.
Perhaps a reasonable parallel, is back when known disruptive football ‘fans’ were all picked up by police before the game started, and then let go at the end of the match.
Imagine the headlines today, had some idiot ended up shot by police after charging the King’s carriage.
This scandal is like Hillsborough, the authorities protect their own and not the victims.
No one will serve time for this shocking miscarriage of justice.
Perhaps, but unlike Liverpool we don't have a planet-sized chip on our shoulder and wallow in mawkish sentimentality and ugly self-pity, so we'll focus our efforts on change not bile.
You really are a twat when it comes to Liverpool.
At least 41 lives could have been saved that day if the authorities hadn’t screwed up and then covered it up.
Nothing has changed, nobody has served time for the deaths of 97 people.
I'd have stopped at word five.
Hmm. I'll save this one for the next time you complain about anyone getting personal at you.
Thanks for my first ever "flag". A badge of honour knowing it was awarded by you.
Liverpool should be nuked and levelled. Maybe we evacuate a few musicians first.
We can then start again. It hasn't worked.
Fucking hell! And you got a like too.
I'm afraid Slough is first for the nuke though. David Brent has decreed it.
I thought it was Sir John Betjemen who first made that very sensible suggestion (though he was talking about a non-nuke option).
It's amazing that some don't seem to get that I might not have been entirely serious.
So what was actually wrong with the software - riddled with bugs or not built to do what others thought it should be doing?
Nobody has been able to answer that except in vague terms. I suspect nobody really knows. Or maybe all those Tubbs types running post offices really were on the rob. Lol.
For the first 10 years of Horizon’s existence, transaction and account data was stored on terminals in each branch before being uploaded to a central database via ISDN. Our source says this part of the system simply did not work.
“The cash account was a piece of software that sat on the counter NT box, asleep all day,” he said. “At the end of the day, or a particular point in the day, it came to life, and it ran through the message store from the point it last finished. It started at a watermark from yesterday and combed through every transaction in the message store, up until the next watermark.
“A lot of the messages in there were nonsense, because there was no data dictionary, there was no API that enforced message integrity. The contents of the message were freehand, you could write whatever you wanted in the code, and everybody did it differently. And then, when you came back three weeks later, you could write it differently again.”
He gave an example of a message stored previously when a customer bought a stamp. It was feasible that a new message for buying a stamp weeks later could be slightly different.
“When the cash count came along, it found a message it was not expecting and either ignored it, tripped up, or added something it shouldn’t be adding,” he said.
Not sure I get that. So when you registered a transaction you just typed in whatever took your fancy - 'sold old Fred at number 96 a stamp' - and the backend would parse the text and make the relevant financial posting? That seems a novel approach.
They weren't wholly guilty for Heysel and they weren't wholly innocent for Hillsborough.
There were many factors involved in the state of football and many factors involved in football hooliganism.
The world is usually complicated and people claiming purity on any issue rarely have much experience.
Yes, the stadium at Heysel was as much an issue as at Hillsborough. The fundamental point about football fan behaviour stands though. There have never been cages at rugby.
At this point on Comment Is Free, it is mandatory for someone to claim there is more violence, drunkenness, racism etc at rugby than football. The correspondent then claims that he has never seen any problem at a football match. As opposed to a Hogarthian display at every rugby match.
I am trying to get my head round how a thread header describing a vast corruption, fraud and perjury scandal for which no one has ever been punished and no victims ever compensated ended up as a Two Minutes' Hate on Liverpool.
I get it started with Hillsborough and the cover up there, but it still seems the weirdest of weird non sequitur.
Snowflakes offended by the boos on Saturday.
So it's snowflakery if our national anthem and new Head of State is insulted and bigotry if we strongly criticise those who did it?
Got it.
You didn't criticise those who did it, but a whole city. And yes getting really upset about other people booing the national anthem is a bit snowflakey.
One of the best things about the UK is that we have tolerance of a wide range of views that includes both royalists and republicans. Celebrate that. A significant minority of Liverpool fans were a bit silly in booing the anthem, as are those who take offence.
This scandal is like Hillsborough, the authorities protect their own and not the victims.
No one will serve time for this shocking miscarriage of justice.
Perhaps, but unlike Liverpool we don't have a planet-sized chip on our shoulder and wallow in mawkish sentimentality and ugly self-pity, so we'll focus our efforts on change not bile.
You really are a twat when it comes to Liverpool.
At least 41 lives could have been saved that day if the authorities hadn’t screwed up and then covered it up.
Nothing has changed, nobody has served time for the deaths of 97 people.
I'd have stopped at word five.
Hmm. I'll save this one for the next time you complain about anyone getting personal at you.
Thanks for my first ever "flag". A badge of honour knowing it was awarded by you.
Liverpool should be nuked and levelled. Maybe we evacuate a few musicians first.
We can then start again. It hasn't worked.
Why do PB allow you to write such prejudicial nonsense without sanction? You wouldn't stereotype a specific race or creed, so why is it acceptable for the citizens of a city you don't like to be slandered by you?
Anyway off to polish my "flag".
I am describing the culture of the city. And I have said not all are like that, but many are.
I was very offended and insulted by the behaviour of Liverpool fans booing the national anthem the day before yesterday. Hillsborough was and is a scandal, that is for sure, and it needs redressing, but (honestly?) I think even if it were this wouldn't go away. No redress would never be enough and/or that legitimate grievance would be replaced by something else in the victim culture: class, snobbery, Fatch etc. There is something profoundly illogical here. The Royal Family had nothing to do with it - they are just a symbol and following through on that by targetting them has made them look disloyal, angry, aggressive and disrespectful and upset a lot of people.
I am now disinclined to lift a finger to help them - unlike I would for Aberfan and the Post Office scandal - which will no doubt reinforce their grievance. So the most likely outcome is that this goes on and on. I think it's important the facts and behaviour are called out so a change can be made.
Think about it.
The people of Liverpool are utterly distraught that you "are disinclined to lift a finger to help them". How will they cope?
By trying to ban me and call me a bigot, it seems.
Banning you would mean we can't ridicule you. Where's the fun in that?
I don't mind a bit of ridicule. It's probably healthy at some level.
I do mind the T and C word a bit though, and being called a bigot. We're better than that.
This subject seems to make otherwise normal people totally irrational.
You are a bit bigoted, though. You hate people who arent ultra monarchists, poor people, Scousers, Vegans, eco-activists, anyone who votes Green. You'd see me arrested and beaten up by the police or event stewards for protesting animal rights or climate change whereas I'd be ashamed if that happened to you. Maybe more than a bit bigoted?
Err, no.
I think you just take yourself, and what I say on here, a little bit too seriously.
Fella, I'd say most people on here feel the same about you. This is the internet, it doesn't do nuance, tone and context so I'm more than willing to believe that that's not the real you, but your posts say otherwise. You sound pretty angry these days.
I use this site to vent a bit, sometimes without much/any of a filter.
It's not representative of what I'm like in real life, as several pb'ers who've met me will attest to, but we're all very interested in politics and issues on here, and it's a passionate and intense subject, and my wife can only take so much.
We all come on here to let off steam (see the Collected Works of Malcomg Esq) don’t worry about it
Tho you do seem a little more dyspeptic than usual, but you have also explained your new job is stressing you out bigtime
I am trying to do something about that.
My review gave me a high performer, and accelerated track to Partner, but at what cost?
I spend all my time working basically.
That's the trade off with these jobs. Having been at partner level for more than 10 years it doesn't get any easier!
It's a challenging and exciting job, and one that is well rewarded, but if you don't enjoy it, or the cost to your family is too great, get out before you get too used to the money.
Thanks. That's what they keep telling me: it only gets worse!
And, really, do I really want that?
I also don't want people to think me a loser and be bossed around by someone 10-15 years younger, though, which, whilst I recognise is a bit of ego talking, also is because I want autonomy and freedom of action as a Partner and because I believe I am capable of doing it.
I think it's true I have an anger issue. Not really sure what I do about it. I genuinely like most people on here. Sometimes I can't control myself though.
The tragedy of Penny Mordaunt's tilt at the Tory Leadership is that she actually appears to have empathy, even her political opponents in Portsmouth North give her credit for being a decent human being. But in the leadership contest she felt forced to deny her own empathy and get on the Culture War Train.
A decent Tory leader needs to come in and say, look I just won't go there, there are other issues. David Cameron and Osborne treaded that line - in my own very biased view - quite well.
I think quite honestly the Labour line of, we should treat people with love and compassion, is a good start. I don't doubt there are many issues of which we have discussed here and I am open to have my mind changed - but too many start from a position of hatred.
Is it a position of hatred to think that women’s sports should be reserved for biological females?
Possibly? Sport is a very wide category and it is clear that in many sports the additional strength of an non transitioned trans woman would be completely unfair. There are other sports like equestrian events where males and females already complete in single category competition so trans athletes in there should be a non-issue, Darts is another one where there's no reason why a trans woman would be at an advantage. For other sports it may be that some form of hormone treatment is required before the playing field is fair, that could be based on length of time or maximum testosterone limits. There are probably other sports where the effect of male puberty means that equal competition can never be achieved and in those cases it would be fair to exclude trans women.
So is it hatred? It would be if the motivation is to exclude trans women because you don't like trans women. It's not if the motivation is fairness to cis women competitors. But I want decisions like that to be made with careful study and science not by placards and chanting from either side of the argument.
Your use of the ugly "cis" word says it all, just say woman, any human can understand that
This scandal is like Hillsborough, the authorities protect their own and not the victims.
No one will serve time for this shocking miscarriage of justice.
Perhaps, but unlike Liverpool we don't have a planet-sized chip on our shoulder and wallow in mawkish sentimentality and ugly self-pity, so we'll focus our efforts on change not bile.
You really are a twat when it comes to Liverpool.
At least 41 lives could have been saved that day if the authorities hadn’t screwed up and then covered it up.
Nothing has changed, nobody has served time for the deaths of 97 people.
I'd have stopped at word five.
Hmm. I'll save this one for the next time you complain about anyone getting personal at you.
Thanks for my first ever "flag". A badge of honour knowing it was awarded by you.
Liverpool should be nuked and levelled. Maybe we evacuate a few musicians first.
We can then start again. It hasn't worked.
Why do PB allow you to write such prejudicial nonsense without sanction? You wouldn't stereotype a specific race or creed, so why is it acceptable for the citizens of a city you don't like to be slandered by you?
Anyway off to polish my "flag".
I am describing the culture of the city. And I have said not all are like that, but many are.
I was very offended and insulted by the behaviour of Liverpool fans booing the national anthem the day before yesterday. Hillsborough was and is a scandal, that is for sure, and it needs redressing, but (honestly?) I think even if it were this wouldn't go away. No redress would never be enough and/or that legitimate grievance would be replaced by something else in the victim culture: class, snobbery, Fatch etc. There is something profoundly illogical here. The Royal Family had nothing to do with it - they are just a symbol and following through on that by targetting them has made them look disloyal, angry, aggressive and disrespectful and upset a lot of people.
I am now disinclined to lift a finger to help them - unlike I would for Aberfan and the Post Office scandal - which will no doubt reinforce their grievance. So the most likely outcome is that this goes on and on. I think it's important the facts and behaviour are called out so a change can be made.
Think about it.
The people of Liverpool are utterly distraught that you "are disinclined to lift a finger to help them". How will they cope?
By trying to ban me and call me a bigot, it seems.
Banning you would mean we can't ridicule you. Where's the fun in that?
I don't mind a bit of ridicule. It's probably healthy at some level.
I do mind the T and C word a bit though, and being called a bigot. We're better than that.
This subject seems to make otherwise normal people totally irrational.
You are a bit bigoted, though. You hate people who arent ultra monarchists, poor people, Scousers, Vegans, eco-activists, anyone who votes Green. You'd see me arrested and beaten up by the police or event stewards for protesting animal rights or climate change whereas I'd be ashamed if that happened to you. Maybe more than a bit bigoted?
Err, no.
I think you just take yourself, and what I say on here, a little bit too seriously.
Fella, I'd say most people on here feel the same about you. This is the internet, it doesn't do nuance, tone and context so I'm more than willing to believe that that's not the real you, but your posts say otherwise. You sound pretty angry these days.
I use this site to vent a bit, sometimes without much/any of a filter.
It's not representative of what I'm like in real life, as several pb'ers who've met me will attest to, but we're all very interested in politics and issues on here, and it's a passionate and intense subject, and my wife can only take so much.
We all come on here to let off steam (see the Collected Works of Malcomg Esq) don’t worry about it
Tho you do seem a little more dyspeptic than usual, but you have also explained your new job is stressing you out bigtime
I am trying to do something about that.
My review gave me a high performer, and accelerated track to Partner, but at what cost?
I spend all my time working basically.
Shift down to a 4 day week if you can afford to. It will do wonders for your mental state. I work half days on Friday but that's become a company policy rather than specific to me and it's been amazing being able to wrap up the week at around lunch time since we started doing it. Overall I'd say our productivity is up as well because people are properly rested on Monday and Tuesday so we get a lot more out of them and all we've done is turn unofficially clocking off at 3ish (officially when we were in office on Fridays) to officially calling it a half day at 1ish.
Thanks mate
Believe it or not I have periods when I work flat out. 12 hours a day of mental effort. 6/7 days a week And serious mental effort, not just meetings or rote-work
It sometimes leaves me physically ill. It depletes important resources and fucks the immune system. It’s only do-able or sensible in very short bursts
I think it’s happened to me here, a bit. I did 14 days of REALLY hard work with very little downtime. A barman I know here at the hotel actually got concerned - “Mister Leon, you are always working?!”
It’s left me with a mild bug and two days in bed. Shame. But the work is now done 🤷♂️
If I had to maintain that pace for months I’d crack up
I am trying to get my head round how a thread header describing a vast corruption, fraud and perjury scandal for which no one has ever been punished and no victims ever compensated ended up as a Two Minutes' Hate on Liverpool.
I get it started with Hillsborough and the cover up there, but it still seems the weirdest of weird non sequitur.
Snowflakes offended by the boos on Saturday.
So it's snowflakery if our national anthem and new Head of State is insulted and bigotry if we strongly criticise those who did it?
Got it.
Do you think it's acceptable that people that protest the King peacefully should be arrested?
Holding up placards, t-shirts and making views known, yes. Active disruption and setting off rape alarms, no.
Given the behaviour of Just Stop Oil in recent weeks the Met were perfectly entitled to act preemptively, and I'd have done the same.
This scandal is like Hillsborough, the authorities protect their own and not the victims.
No one will serve time for this shocking miscarriage of justice.
Perhaps, but unlike Liverpool we don't have a planet-sized chip on our shoulder and wallow in mawkish sentimentality and ugly self-pity, so we'll focus our efforts on change not bile.
You really are a twat when it comes to Liverpool.
At least 41 lives could have been saved that day if the authorities hadn’t screwed up and then covered it up.
Nothing has changed, nobody has served time for the deaths of 97 people.
I'd have stopped at word five.
Hmm. I'll save this one for the next time you complain about anyone getting personal at you.
Thanks for my first ever "flag". A badge of honour knowing it was awarded by you.
Liverpool should be nuked and levelled. Maybe we evacuate a few musicians first.
We can then start again. It hasn't worked.
Why do PB allow you to write such prejudicial nonsense without sanction? You wouldn't stereotype a specific race or creed, so why is it acceptable for the citizens of a city you don't like to be slandered by you?
Anyway off to polish my "flag".
I am describing the culture of the city. And I have said not all are like that, but many are.
I was very offended and insulted by the behaviour of Liverpool fans booing the national anthem the day before yesterday. Hillsborough was and is a scandal, that is for sure, and it needs redressing, but (honestly?) I think even if it were this wouldn't go away. No redress would never be enough and/or that legitimate grievance would be replaced by something else in the victim culture: class, snobbery, Fatch etc. There is something profoundly illogical here. The Royal Family had nothing to do with it - they are just a symbol and following through on that by targetting them has made them look disloyal, angry, aggressive and disrespectful and upset a lot of people.
I am now disinclined to lift a finger to help them - unlike I would for Aberfan and the Post Office scandal - which will no doubt reinforce their grievance. So the most likely outcome is that this goes on and on. I think it's important the facts and behaviour are called out so a change can be made.
Think about it.
The people of Liverpool are utterly distraught that you "are disinclined to lift a finger to help them". How will they cope?
By trying to ban me and call me a bigot, it seems.
Banning you would mean we can't ridicule you. Where's the fun in that?
I don't mind a bit of ridicule. It's probably healthy at some level.
I do mind the T and C word a bit though, and being called a bigot. We're better than that.
This subject seems to make otherwise normal people totally irrational.
You are a bit bigoted, though. You hate people who arent ultra monarchists, poor people, Scousers, Vegans, eco-activists, anyone who votes Green. You'd see me arrested and beaten up by the police or event stewards for protesting animal rights or climate change whereas I'd be ashamed if that happened to you. Maybe more than a bit bigoted?
Err, no.
I think you just take yourself, and what I say on here, a little bit too seriously.
Fella, I'd say most people on here feel the same about you. This is the internet, it doesn't do nuance, tone and context so I'm more than willing to believe that that's not the real you, but your posts say otherwise. You sound pretty angry these days.
I use this site to vent a bit, sometimes without much/any of a filter.
It's not representative of what I'm like in real life, as several pb'ers who've met me will attest to, but we're all very interested in politics and issues on here, and it's a passionate and intense subject, and my wife can only take so much.
We all come on here to let off steam (see the Collected Works of Malcomg Esq) don’t worry about it
Tho you do seem a little more dyspeptic than usual, but you have also explained your new job is stressing you out bigtime
I am trying to do something about that.
My review gave me a high performer, and accelerated track to Partner, but at what cost?
I spend all my time working basically.
That's the trade off with these jobs. Having been at partner level for more than 10 years it doesn't get any easier!
It's a challenging and exciting job, and one that is well rewarded, but if you don't enjoy it, or the cost to your family is too great, get out before you get too used to the money.
Thanks. That's what they keep telling me: it only gets worse!
And, really, do I really want that?
I also don't want people to think me a loser and be bossed around by someone 10-15 years younger, though, which, whilst I recognise is a bit of ego talking, also is because I want autonomy and freedom of action as a Partner and because I believe I am capable of doing it.
I think it's true I have an anger issue. Not really sure what I do about it. I genuinely like most people on here. Sometimes I can't control myself though.
Why on Earth would you think that makes you a loser? My boss is 28. Exactly half my age and she's super in every conceivable way. I love working for her. Being bossed around by an older male who's an insufferable complete twat and incompetent with it. Now that would make me feel like a loser.
This scandal is like Hillsborough, the authorities protect their own and not the victims.
No one will serve time for this shocking miscarriage of justice.
Perhaps, but unlike Liverpool we don't have a planet-sized chip on our shoulder and wallow in mawkish sentimentality and ugly self-pity, so we'll focus our efforts on change not bile.
You really are a twat when it comes to Liverpool.
At least 41 lives could have been saved that day if the authorities hadn’t screwed up and then covered it up.
Nothing has changed, nobody has served time for the deaths of 97 people.
It’s not just Hillsborough though. Liverpool’s decline as a city was mainly down to appalling industrial relations and terrible local councillors. And, that was the responsibility of Liverpudlians.
The only thing you get from Liverpudlians any time you point out their behaviour to them is "Hillsborough" and raw abuse.
One can only conclude that being wronged against has become part of their culture, probably to avoid having to face up to their own failings, and they channel a secret hatred of themselves into rage at others.
Because it is a legitimate grievance "Hillsborough" is enough of a justification for it to last several generations.
Liverpool is a city and culture that revels in its victim status and uses it as a shield for why it's such a shit hole rather than looking within at their own failings and voting in politicians who are knowingly corrupt but because they have the correct colour rosette they win by default. It's always someone else's fault, never their own fault for, you know, being chronically lazy and unemployed.
I won't disagree with the second part, about voting Labour. It's pretty terrible around here. Labour don't care, because they've won, and the others don't care because they can't win (and therefore it can't really be blamed on them as they're not in charge).
But the same could be said about many other areas in the country. How many seats just vote Conservative without any thinking why?
Tory seats are almost always more competitive over the years. For example Castle Point is one of the safest seats in the country now but it went Labour in 1997. A bit like Bootle going Tory.
Try that one on North Dorset.
Or West Dorset - Conservative in every election since it was formed in 1885. 38 straight Tory wins by my count.
I am trying to get my head round how a thread header describing a vast corruption, fraud and perjury scandal for which no one has ever been punished and no victims ever compensated ended up as a Two Minutes' Hate on Liverpool.
I get it started with Hillsborough and the cover up there, but it still seems the weirdest of weird non sequitur.
Snowflakes offended by the boos on Saturday.
So it's snowflakery if our national anthem and new Head of State is insulted and bigotry if we strongly criticise those who did it?
Got it.
Do you think it's acceptable that people that protest the King peacefully should be arrested?
There is a time and a place for everything. This was not the moment to try and disrupt an event of national and global significance.
This was the inevitable consequence of the XR/JSO approach over the last year or so.
So what was actually wrong with the software - riddled with bugs or not built to do what others thought it should be doing?
Nobody has been able to answer that except in vague terms. I suspect nobody really knows. Or maybe all those Tubbs types running post offices really were on the rob. Lol.
For the first 10 years of Horizon’s existence, transaction and account data was stored on terminals in each branch before being uploaded to a central database via ISDN. Our source says this part of the system simply did not work.
“The cash account was a piece of software that sat on the counter NT box, asleep all day,” he said. “At the end of the day, or a particular point in the day, it came to life, and it ran through the message store from the point it last finished. It started at a watermark from yesterday and combed through every transaction in the message store, up until the next watermark.
“A lot of the messages in there were nonsense, because there was no data dictionary, there was no API that enforced message integrity. The contents of the message were freehand, you could write whatever you wanted in the code, and everybody did it differently. And then, when you came back three weeks later, you could write it differently again.”
He gave an example of a message stored previously when a customer bought a stamp. It was feasible that a new message for buying a stamp weeks later could be slightly different.
“When the cash count came along, it found a message it was not expecting and either ignored it, tripped up, or added something it shouldn’t be adding,” he said.
Not sure I get that. So when you registered a transaction you just typed in whatever took your fancy - 'sold old Fred at number 96 a stamp' - and the backend would parse the text and make the relevant financial posting? That seems a novel approach.
Perhaps along the line of user instructions that you should enter in the format of "3 Stamps First Class @ 18p" or whatever, but if you entered "Three first class stamps @ 18p" the system did not reject it at the time of entry and instead tried to process it, sometimes resulting in omission, other times incorrect entries.
Obviously bonkers, but it seems the developers had no relevant experience or qualifications.
Can somebody who understands this shit explain what, exactly, was wrong with the stupid software?
A person(*) or computer tries to tell another person or computer that a transaction has occurred. This fails for some reason. How do you prevent lost transactions, double counting (if you just resend)?
The software in question was shit at this. Phantom transactions all over the place.
This problem has been solved many times. Fucking it up like this means that the design was shit.
It seems the board/senior management have been paid bonuses they are not entitled to based on false information. The CEO will repay it but they are still considering whether the others should. I wonder if there will be a fraud investigation.....
It beggars belief, that knowing what had gone on and that the Management were responsible, as it was on their watch, that they thought any kind of bonus was appropriate.
Does it beggar belief more than the fact that these people, who prima facie conspired to pervert the course of justice, have not only not been prosecuted but are still in their jobs?
It may beggar belief. But it is also standard operating procedure around the world.
Above a certain level, there is no failure. Well failure is redefined as “Nothing will happen to you. At the very, very worst, you will lose your job. With a golden goodbye. Then a new job will be sorted out for you. Golden hello, more money”
When one of the senior people responsible for covering up Rotherham was offered a bigger, better job, running a child care organisation, overseas, someone suggested that providing a reference wasn’t the right thing to do.
This was described as “disgusting” and “vindictive”. The reference was provided.
This is what I call the New Upper 10,000
Funny, I call them a word that contains N, U and T as well.
Just not in that order and you See from the start...
The people at the top who get criticised see themselves as the real victims.
This scandal is like Hillsborough, the authorities protect their own and not the victims.
No one will serve time for this shocking miscarriage of justice.
Perhaps, but unlike Liverpool we don't have a planet-sized chip on our shoulder and wallow in mawkish sentimentality and ugly self-pity, so we'll focus our efforts on change not bile.
You really are a twat when it comes to Liverpool.
At least 41 lives could have been saved that day if the authorities hadn’t screwed up and then covered it up.
Nothing has changed, nobody has served time for the deaths of 97 people.
How many lives could have been saved at Heysel if so many Liverpool fans weren’t drunken, homicidal louts?
It’s incredible how much Liverpool FC witters on about Hillsborough (which was undeniably awful) yet NEVER mentions Heysel. It’s not like they were centuries apart
Casino tees them up for you, and you hit them straight and true down the fairway of Political Betting.
Edwards II, III and IV tried to banned football on the grounds of public danger and nuisance.
They were of the opinion that mandatory assault weapon practise was better for the commonweal.
My views are slightly odd.
Football leaves me cold - I could use stronger words - and I find its culture of aggression and violence utterly repellant. I tend to hunker down and go to ground whenever it's on.
I also think there are far too many dogs in the country now, many poorly controlled, and I can't go anywhere for a country walk or on a beach now without being pawed by some random mutt usually accompanied by a "he won't bite!" comment by the owner.
It seems the board/senior management have been paid bonuses they are not entitled to based on false information. The CEO will repay it but they are still considering whether the others should. I wonder if there will be a fraud investigation.....
It beggars belief, that knowing what had gone on and that the Management were responsible, as it was on their watch, that they thought any kind of bonus was appropriate.
Does it beggar belief more than the fact that these people, who prima facie conspired to pervert the course of justice, have not only not been prosecuted but are still in their jobs?
It may beggar belief. But it is also standard operating procedure around the world.
Above a certain level, there is no failure. Well failure is redefined as “Nothing will happen to you. At the very, very worst, you will lose your job. With a golden goodbye. Then a new job will be sorted out for you. Golden hello, more money”
When one of the senior people responsible for covering up Rotherham was offered a bigger, better job, running a child care organisation, overseas, someone suggested that providing a reference wasn’t the right thing to do.
This was described as “disgusting” and “vindictive”. The reference was provided.
This is what I call the New Upper 10,000
Funny, I call them a word that contains N, U and T as well.
Just not in that order and you See from the start...
The people at the top who get criticised see themselves as the real victims.
I'm reminded of Mrs Pike's dialogue with Mainwaring:
M: Now look, Mrs Pike, I cannot have you come in here all the time and criticise my running of this platoon.
The tragedy of Penny Mordaunt's tilt at the Tory Leadership is that she actually appears to have empathy, even her political opponents in Portsmouth North give her credit for being a decent human being. But in the leadership contest she felt forced to deny her own empathy and get on the Culture War Train.
A decent Tory leader needs to come in and say, look I just won't go there, there are other issues. David Cameron and Osborne treaded that line - in my own very biased view - quite well.
I think quite honestly the Labour line of, we should treat people with love and compassion, is a good start. I don't doubt there are many issues of which we have discussed here and I am open to have my mind changed - but too many start from a position of hatred.
Is it a position of hatred to think that women’s sports should be reserved for biological females?
Possibly? Sport is a very wide category and it is clear that in many sports the additional strength of an non transitioned trans woman would be completely unfair. There are other sports like equestrian events where males and females already complete in single category competition so trans athletes in there should be a non-issue, Darts is another one where there's no reason why a trans woman would be at an advantage. For other sports it may be that some form of hormone treatment is required before the playing field is fair, that could be based on length of time or maximum testosterone limits. There are probably other sports where the effect of male puberty means that equal competition can never be achieved and in those cases it would be fair to exclude trans women.
So is it hatred? It would be if the motivation is to exclude trans women because you don't like trans women. It's not if the motivation is fairness to cis women competitors. But I want decisions like that to be made with careful study and science not by placards and chanting from either side of the argument.
Your use of the ugly "cis" word says it all, just say woman, any human can understand that
“Cis” is a loaded term. It means that you *identify* as the gender you were *assigned* at birth.
I don’t identify as male. I am male. That’s a fact, not an opinion.
They should absolutely sue the Met. How can anyone defend this? Would anyone like to try?
I think it's clear that the downside of failing to keep protests constrained was far greater than it normally would have been. A precautionary approach was clearly the right one.
I can't see why the Met don't say much as the above.
It was a sh!tty situation for the Met and security services, given the recent background of demonstrations aiming for maximum disruption to events. They were damned if they did, and damned if they didn’t.
Perhaps a reasonable parallel, is back when known disruptive football ‘fans’ were all picked up by police before the game started, and then let go at the end of the match.
Imagine the headlines today, had some idiot ended up shot by police after charging the King’s carriage.
In local government a new phenomenon in the social media age is where managers get 'forced out' by political campaigns about certain issues in response to local mobs. Often the underlying error is very minor and has no merit. What this has led to is a change from permanent employment to contracting on one weeks notice. So instead of being a manager on the local government pay scale Council's have to pay 'interim managers' 2-3 times as much to do the job. If the mobs start approaching the Councillors play along with it then the interim manager can just issue a threat to walk off to another council, leaving the work in total chaos and no one for the Councillors to blame; the positive impact of this being that Councillors are now a bit more cautious about going along with mobs.
I am seeing a similarity here to the post office situation - there is 'mob like' thinking going on and ultimately I don't think it will work out well.
They continued to prosecute innocent people after it was clear to them (they admitted it in internal emails) that they were wrong, and there were no crimes to procedure.
There’s no mob here. They committed perjury on an epic scale. They should be tried, convicted and sent to prison for that.
@kinabalu reflecting over the weekend I think Labour won't get there on raw vote lead but, at present, tactical voting will get them over the line.
Sunak may be able to make that more complex over the next 18 months. Depends on him getting a lot right, and being lucky, though, and a few Starmer missteps.
The tragedy of Penny Mordaunt's tilt at the Tory Leadership is that she actually appears to have empathy, even her political opponents in Portsmouth North give her credit for being a decent human being. But in the leadership contest she felt forced to deny her own empathy and get on the Culture War Train.
A decent Tory leader needs to come in and say, look I just won't go there, there are other issues. David Cameron and Osborne treaded that line - in my own very biased view - quite well.
I think quite honestly the Labour line of, we should treat people with love and compassion, is a good start. I don't doubt there are many issues of which we have discussed here and I am open to have my mind changed - but too many start from a position of hatred.
Is it a position of hatred to think that women’s sports should be reserved for biological females?
Possibly? Sport is a very wide category and it is clear that in many sports the additional strength of an non transitioned trans woman would be completely unfair. There are other sports like equestrian events where males and females already complete in single category competition so trans athletes in there should be a non-issue, Darts is another one where there's no reason why a trans woman would be at an advantage. For other sports it may be that some form of hormone treatment is required before the playing field is fair, that could be based on length of time or maximum testosterone limits. There are probably other sports where the effect of male puberty means that equal competition can never be achieved and in those cases it would be fair to exclude trans women.
So is it hatred? It would be if the motivation is to exclude trans women because you don't like trans women. It's not if the motivation is fairness to cis women competitors. But I want decisions like that to be made with careful study and science not by placards and chanting from either side of the argument.
The problem is that this debate has become so utterly binary, the ability for sensible argument and discussion has long gone.
There are people here who I disagree with on this but I don't doubt they are coming at it from the right place. They should be the people arguing about this properly.
The issue is that the people actually doing the arguing are the same people who used to tell us that if we allowed gay marriage you'd be marrying a farm animal today, if we allowed homosexuality all our schools would be full of paedophiles and if we allowed women the vote society would collapse.
This scandal is like Hillsborough, the authorities protect their own and not the victims.
No one will serve time for this shocking miscarriage of justice.
Perhaps, but unlike Liverpool we don't have a planet-sized chip on our shoulder and wallow in mawkish sentimentality and ugly self-pity, so we'll focus our efforts on change not bile.
You really are a twat when it comes to Liverpool.
At least 41 lives could have been saved that day if the authorities hadn’t screwed up and then covered it up.
Nothing has changed, nobody has served time for the deaths of 97 people.
How many lives could have been saved at Heysel if so many Liverpool fans weren’t drunken, homicidal louts?
It’s incredible how much Liverpool FC witters on about Hillsborough (which was undeniably awful) yet NEVER mentions Heysel. It’s not like they were centuries apart
Casino tees them up for you, and you hit them straight and true down the fairway of Political Betting.
Edwards II, III and IV tried to banned football on the grounds of public danger and nuisance.
They were of the opinion that mandatory assault weapon practise was better for the commonweal.
My views are slightly odd.
Football leaves me cold - I could use stronger words - and I find its culture of aggression and violence utterly repellant. I tend to hunker down and go to ground whenever it's on.
I also think there are far too many dogs in the country now, many poorly controlled, and I can't go anywhere for a country walk or on a beach now without being pawed by some random mutt usually accompanied by a "he won't bite!" comment by the owner.
Maybe I should say, "No, but I might."
Dogs out of control I can get on board with! Dog walkers taking six, seven, eight dogs to a park and then letting them off their leashes should be illegal, and not something I saw even ten years ago. Individual dogs, generally fine, but risk is much higher in a pack.
So what was actually wrong with the software - riddled with bugs or not built to do what others thought it should be doing?
Nobody has been able to answer that except in vague terms. I suspect nobody really knows. Or maybe all those Tubbs types running post offices really were on the rob. Lol.
For the first 10 years of Horizon’s existence, transaction and account data was stored on terminals in each branch before being uploaded to a central database via ISDN. Our source says this part of the system simply did not work.
“The cash account was a piece of software that sat on the counter NT box, asleep all day,” he said. “At the end of the day, or a particular point in the day, it came to life, and it ran through the message store from the point it last finished. It started at a watermark from yesterday and combed through every transaction in the message store, up until the next watermark.
“A lot of the messages in there were nonsense, because there was no data dictionary, there was no API that enforced message integrity. The contents of the message were freehand, you could write whatever you wanted in the code, and everybody did it differently. And then, when you came back three weeks later, you could write it differently again.”
He gave an example of a message stored previously when a customer bought a stamp. It was feasible that a new message for buying a stamp weeks later could be slightly different.
“When the cash count came along, it found a message it was not expecting and either ignored it, tripped up, or added something it shouldn’t be adding,” he said.
I’m no expert but that sounds like basic programming error? Format is everything.
The problem with this scandal is that it is complicated. What actually happened? AIUI the Fujitsu system was supposed to provide a management system that would operate the post office for people for whom that was only a part of their business, a counter in a shop. It was designed to allow them to deal with the various post office functions such as making deposits and savings in Post Office savings accounts, the huge range of government services and charges that have to be paid and actual post office functions like parcels and letters.
Somehow, and I have yet to read an account of this that makes much sense, the system created "holes" in the accounts, deficits that did not actually exist but which the sub-post masters were held to account for. And that is where it gets absurdly complicated because it surely should have been obvious to anyone who looked at the results that the service did not actually have these deficits. Put it another way, had those deficits been paid the service would have been performing quite exceptionally with highly unlikely levels of turnover and profit. But somehow the rubbish out of the systems was not identified, no one would accept that the system was making it up.
The other thing that was odd about it is that the sub-postmasters were not naïve fools about business or accounts. They, largely, ran their own discrete businesses with their own accounts, profits and losses, bank accounts etc. It should have been obvious to them that if these deficits were real the post office counter was running at a ridiculous loss. And where was the accounting for these deficits? Where were the counterbalancing surpluses, who got them? Presumably the Post Office. Did they not understand their own accounts well enough to realise something was going wrong?
I think @Cyclefree may be being a little harsh with the lawyers. They would have been told very little, that there was a deficit on the accounts and that the explanation was that the sub-postmaster had dipped into it and stolen money that they held in trust but did not belong to them. What more does a prosecutor need? But the accountants must surely have realised that something was not right, that there were deficits with no corresponding surpluses, where was the evidence of the money actually hitting the accounts of the sub-postmasters? And yet, concerns expressed were disregarded because so much had been invested in the system that it was impossible to accept that it did not work. There are many lessons to be learned here as well as an injustice to be made good as soon as possible.
AIUI the subpostmasters did complain, often loudly. But they were told the computer was right. The assumption was that they had taken the cash and used it to subsidise their daily life, with the result that there was a deficit with no surplus *recorded on the system*
Worse than that, as outlined in the header, the judge ruled that the computer output was beyond challenge by the defence, it was assumed to be legally factual information.
What boggles the mind is that accounting is just adding and subtracting. We're not talking MegaCorp with complex off-shore tax dodging schemes. We're talking small post offices taking and issuing relatively small amounts of cash over the counter. The computer can say "£10k unaccounted for" but it would have been blindingly obvious to anyone who can add that it isn't.
Like when my Quickbooks says I am -£6k because it has double counted a transaction until I correct it. My account isn't showing -£6k. The transaction doing that isn't in my bank record, so only a moron would take the computer as gospel and ignore all other evidence. And yet that is what they did at the Post Office.
Over and over and over again. So many criminals suddenly appointed to run sub post office branches! That in itself should have been a scandal! Why since the new computer system came in have we employed so many crooks?
Because they already thought they had a bunch of crooks running post offices, and the new system told them exactly what they wanted to hear.
Plus, if the situation was crooks in post offices stealing on an epic scale, then stopping them would vastly increase Post Office profits.
Trebles all round!
If the system was wrong, then they’d spent millions on a turkey and profits would collapse while they spent million to sort it out….
The tragedy of Penny Mordaunt's tilt at the Tory Leadership is that she actually appears to have empathy, even her political opponents in Portsmouth North give her credit for being a decent human being. But in the leadership contest she felt forced to deny her own empathy and get on the Culture War Train.
A decent Tory leader needs to come in and say, look I just won't go there, there are other issues. David Cameron and Osborne treaded that line - in my own very biased view - quite well.
I think quite honestly the Labour line of, we should treat people with love and compassion, is a good start. I don't doubt there are many issues of which we have discussed here and I am open to have my mind changed - but too many start from a position of hatred.
Is it a position of hatred to think that women’s sports should be reserved for biological females?
Possibly? Sport is a very wide category and it is clear that in many sports the additional strength of an non transitioned trans woman would be completely unfair. There are other sports like equestrian events where males and females already complete in single category competition so trans athletes in there should be a non-issue, Darts is another one where there's no reason why a trans woman would be at an advantage. For other sports it may be that some form of hormone treatment is required before the playing field is fair, that could be based on length of time or maximum testosterone limits. There are probably other sports where the effect of male puberty means that equal competition can never be achieved and in those cases it would be fair to exclude trans women.
So is it hatred? It would be if the motivation is to exclude trans women because you don't like trans women. It's not if the motivation is fairness to cis women competitors. But I want decisions like that to be made with careful study and science not by placards and chanting from either side of the argument.
The problem is that this debate has become so utterly binary, the ability for sensible argument and discussion has long gone.
There are people here who I disagree with on this but I don't doubt they are coming at it from the right place. They should be the people arguing about this properly.
The issue is that the people actually doing the arguing are the same people who used to tell us that if we allowed gay marriage you'd be marrying a farm animal today, if we allowed homosexuality all our schools would be full of paedophiles and if we allowed women the vote society would collapse.
I am trying to get my head round how a thread header describing a vast corruption, fraud and perjury scandal for which no one has ever been punished and no victims ever compensated ended up as a Two Minutes' Hate on Liverpool.
I get it started with Hillsborough and the cover up there, but it still seems the weirdest of weird non sequitur.
Snowflakes offended by the boos on Saturday.
So it's snowflakery if our national anthem and new Head of State is insulted and bigotry if we strongly criticise those who did it?
Got it.
Do you think it's acceptable that people that protest the King peacefully should be arrested?
Holding up placards, t-shirts and making views known, yes. Active disruption and setting off rape alarms, no.
Given the behaviour of Just Stop Oil in recent weeks the Met were perfectly entitled to act preemptively, and I'd have done the same.
I dare say you would. But the right to protest, subject to the approval of Casino_Royale, is not much of a right. Ditto the Met.
The problem with this scandal is that it is complicated. What actually happened? AIUI the Fujitsu system was supposed to provide a management system that would operate the post office for people for whom that was only a part of their business, a counter in a shop. It was designed to allow them to deal with the various post office functions such as making deposits and savings in Post Office savings accounts, the huge range of government services and charges that have to be paid and actual post office functions like parcels and letters.
Somehow, and I have yet to read an account of this that makes much sense, the system created "holes" in the accounts, deficits that did not actually exist but which the sub-post masters were held to account for. And that is where it gets absurdly complicated because it surely should have been obvious to anyone who looked at the results that the service did not actually have these deficits. Put it another way, had those deficits been paid the service would have been performing quite exceptionally with highly unlikely levels of turnover and profit. But somehow the rubbish out of the systems was not identified, no one would accept that the system was making it up.
The other thing that was odd about it is that the sub-postmasters were not naïve fools about business or accounts. They, largely, ran their own discrete businesses with their own accounts, profits and losses, bank accounts etc. It should have been obvious to them that if these deficits were real the post office counter was running at a ridiculous loss. And where was the accounting for these deficits? Where were the counterbalancing surpluses, who got them? Presumably the Post Office. Did they not understand their own accounts well enough to realise something was going wrong?
I think @Cyclefree may be being a little harsh with the lawyers. They would have been told very little, that there was a deficit on the accounts and that the explanation was that the sub-postmaster had dipped into it and stolen money that they held in trust but did not belong to them. What more does a prosecutor need? But the accountants must surely have realised that something was not right, that there were deficits with no corresponding surpluses, where was the evidence of the money actually hitting the accounts of the sub-postmasters? And yet, concerns expressed were disregarded because so much had been invested in the system that it was impossible to accept that it did not work. There are many lessons to be learned here as well as an injustice to be made good as soon as possible.
AIUI the subpostmasters did complain, often loudly. But they were told the computer was right. The assumption was that they had taken the cash and used it to subsidise their daily life, with the result that there was a deficit with no surplus *recorded on the system*
Worse than that, as outlined in the header, the judge ruled that the computer output was beyond challenge by the defence, it was assumed to be legally factual information.
What boggles the mind is that accounting is just adding and subtracting. We're not talking MegaCorp with complex off-shore tax dodging schemes. We're talking small post offices taking and issuing relatively small amounts of cash over the counter. The computer can say "£10k unaccounted for" but it would have been blindingly obvious to anyone who can add that it isn't.
Like when my Quickbooks says I am -£6k because it has double counted a transaction until I correct it. My account isn't showing -£6k. The transaction doing that isn't in my bank record, so only a moron would take the computer as gospel and ignore all other evidence. And yet that is what they did at the Post Office.
Over and over and over again. So many criminals suddenly appointed to run sub post office branches! That in itself should have been a scandal! Why since the new computer system came in have we employed so many crooks?
Because they already thought they had a bunch of crooks running post offices, and the new system told them exactly what they wanted to hear.
That and the fact that had spent a lot of money on Horizon and did not want to admit that they had wasted it. I suspect the latter was probably even more important for those high up in the management chain.
Remembering, as I said above, that this was the rematch, already having wasted tons of money and abandoned the first attempt to make Horizon work. So the reputational cost of a second failure was even higher. With hindsight the DSS did well to bail from the partnership and leave the PO and Fujitsu to get on with it.
This scandal is like Hillsborough, the authorities protect their own and not the victims.
No one will serve time for this shocking miscarriage of justice.
Perhaps, but unlike Liverpool we don't have a planet-sized chip on our shoulder and wallow in mawkish sentimentality and ugly self-pity, so we'll focus our efforts on change not bile.
You really are a twat when it comes to Liverpool.
At least 41 lives could have been saved that day if the authorities hadn’t screwed up and then covered it up.
Nothing has changed, nobody has served time for the deaths of 97 people.
I'd have stopped at word five.
Hmm. I'll save this one for the next time you complain about anyone getting personal at you.
Thanks for my first ever "flag". A badge of honour knowing it was awarded by you.
Liverpool should be nuked and levelled. Maybe we evacuate a few musicians first.
We can then start again. It hasn't worked.
Why do PB allow you to write such prejudicial nonsense without sanction? You wouldn't stereotype a specific race or creed, so why is it acceptable for the citizens of a city you don't like to be slandered by you?
Anyway off to polish my "flag".
I am describing the culture of the city. And I have said not all are like that, but many are.
I was very offended and insulted by the behaviour of Liverpool fans booing the national anthem the day before yesterday. Hillsborough was and is a scandal, that is for sure, and it needs redressing, but (honestly?) I think even if it were this wouldn't go away. No redress would never be enough and/or that legitimate grievance would be replaced by something else in the victim culture: class, snobbery, Fatch etc. There is something profoundly illogical here. The Royal Family had nothing to do with it - they are just a symbol and following through on that by targetting them has made them look disloyal, angry, aggressive and disrespectful and upset a lot of people.
I am now disinclined to lift a finger to help them - unlike I would for Aberfan and the Post Office scandal - which will no doubt reinforce their grievance. So the most likely outcome is that this goes on and on. I think it's important the facts and behaviour are called out so a change can be made.
Think about it.
The people of Liverpool are utterly distraught that you "are disinclined to lift a finger to help them". How will they cope?
By trying to ban me and call me a bigot, it seems.
Banning you would mean we can't ridicule you. Where's the fun in that?
I don't mind a bit of ridicule. It's probably healthy at some level.
I do mind the T and C word a bit though, and being called a bigot. We're better than that.
This subject seems to make otherwise normal people totally irrational.
You are a bit bigoted, though. You hate people who arent ultra monarchists, poor people, Scousers, Vegans, eco-activists, anyone who votes Green. You'd see me arrested and beaten up by the police or event stewards for protesting animal rights or climate change whereas I'd be ashamed if that happened to you. Maybe more than a bit bigoted?
Err, no.
I think you just take yourself, and what I say on here, a little bit too seriously.
Fella, I'd say most people on here feel the same about you. This is the internet, it doesn't do nuance, tone and context so I'm more than willing to believe that that's not the real you, but your posts say otherwise. You sound pretty angry these days.
I use this site to vent a bit, sometimes without much/any of a filter.
It's not representative of what I'm like in real life, as several pb'ers who've met me will attest to, but we're all very interested in politics and issues on here, and it's a passionate and intense subject, and my wife can only take so much.
We all come on here to let off steam (see the Collected Works of Malcomg Esq) don’t worry about it
Tho you do seem a little more dyspeptic than usual, but you have also explained your new job is stressing you out bigtime
I am trying to do something about that.
My review gave me a high performer, and accelerated track to Partner, but at what cost?
I spend all my time working basically.
That's the trade off with these jobs. Having been at partner level for more than 10 years it doesn't get any easier!
It's a challenging and exciting job, and one that is well rewarded, but if you don't enjoy it, or the cost to your family is too great, get out before you get too used to the money.
Thanks. That's what they keep telling me: it only gets worse!
And, really, do I really want that?
I also don't want people to think me a loser and be bossed around by someone 10-15 years younger, though, which, whilst I recognise is a bit of ego talking, also is because I want autonomy and freedom of action as a Partner and because I believe I am capable of doing it.
I think it's true I have an anger issue. Not really sure what I do about it. I genuinely like most people on here. Sometimes I can't control myself though.
It’s a different sort of worse… I have less “actual” work and analysis to do. But I have a global business so get calls from clients early and late, weekends and bank holidays. For example on Saturday I had to draft a detailed email to stop a client making a stupid mistake and then hop on a board call at 6.30 AM on Sunday morning. Total work was probably 1.5 hours (including a long call with the chairman) but maximum disruption. I’m now en route to the airport for a 2 day trip to NY.
Against that, people trust you and listen to you and you get to work with fantastic people and see and help solve really interesting problems.
To be honest, I would never want to be a long term director with no prospect of partnership. It wouldn’t suit me - for me it would be up or do something different. But that’s a personal thing - others are very happy being a “doer” rather than a rainmaker.
I would address the anger issue head on. Figure out what is causing it and address. May be it’s just stress. But it will take a toll on your family life and your work performance - I was once told that I should “never make an enemy unintentionally”… uncontrolled anger will cause that. It’s worth spending the time seeing a professional, and no shame on doing that. Think of it as an investment in your career - like personal coaching.
I am trying to get my head round how a thread header describing a vast corruption, fraud and perjury scandal for which no one has ever been punished and no victims ever compensated ended up as a Two Minutes' Hate on Liverpool.
I get it started with Hillsborough and the cover up there, but it still seems the weirdest of weird non sequitur.
Snowflakes offended by the boos on Saturday.
So it's snowflakery if our national anthem and new Head of State is insulted and bigotry if we strongly criticise those who did it?
Got it.
You didn't criticise those who did it, but a whole city. And yes getting really upset about other people booing the national anthem is a bit snowflakey.
One of the best things about the UK is that we have tolerance of a wide range of views that includes both royalists and republicans. Celebrate that. A significant minority of Liverpool fans were a bit silly in booing the anthem, as are those who take offence.
It was a grave and total insult to the whole nation and upset a lot of people.
It was disgusting, particularly on Coronation Day. Totally disrespectful. I'm still annoyed about it today.
A backlash was to entirely be expected, and they can't complain they've now got one.
It seems the board/senior management have been paid bonuses they are not entitled to based on false information. The CEO will repay it but they are still considering whether the others should. I wonder if there will be a fraud investigation.....
It beggars belief, that knowing what had gone on and that the Management were responsible, as it was on their watch, that they thought any kind of bonus was appropriate.
Does it beggar belief more than the fact that these people, who prima facie conspired to pervert the course of justice, have not only not been prosecuted but are still in their jobs?
It may beggar belief. But it is also standard operating procedure around the world.
Above a certain level, there is no failure. Well failure is redefined as “Nothing will happen to you. At the very, very worst, you will lose your job. With a golden goodbye. Then a new job will be sorted out for you. Golden hello, more money”
When one of the senior people responsible for covering up Rotherham was offered a bigger, better job, running a child care organisation, overseas, someone suggested that providing a reference wasn’t the right thing to do.
This was described as “disgusting” and “vindictive”. The reference was provided.
This is what I call the New Upper 10,000
Funny, I call them a word that contains N, U and T as well.
Just not in that order and you See from the start...
The people at the top who get criticised see themselves as the real victims.
I'm reminded of Mrs Pike's dialogue with Mainwaring:
M: Now look, Mrs Pike, I cannot have you come in here all the time and criticise my running of this platoon.
Mrs P: Then you should run it better.
I remember a really gripping book review of “Ordinary Men.”
The reviewer compared it to an episode of Dad’s Army where Fraser photographs Mainwaring and Pike standing next to the body of a civilian they’ve just hanged.”
This scandal is like Hillsborough, the authorities protect their own and not the victims.
No one will serve time for this shocking miscarriage of justice.
Perhaps, but unlike Liverpool we don't have a planet-sized chip on our shoulder and wallow in mawkish sentimentality and ugly self-pity, so we'll focus our efforts on change not bile.
You really are a twat when it comes to Liverpool.
At least 41 lives could have been saved that day if the authorities hadn’t screwed up and then covered it up.
Nothing has changed, nobody has served time for the deaths of 97 people.
I'd have stopped at word five.
Hmm. I'll save this one for the next time you complain about anyone getting personal at you.
Thanks for my first ever "flag". A badge of honour knowing it was awarded by you.
Liverpool should be nuked and levelled. Maybe we evacuate a few musicians first.
We can then start again. It hasn't worked.
Why do PB allow you to write such prejudicial nonsense without sanction? You wouldn't stereotype a specific race or creed, so why is it acceptable for the citizens of a city you don't like to be slandered by you?
Anyway off to polish my "flag".
I am describing the culture of the city. And I have said not all are like that, but many are.
I was very offended and insulted by the behaviour of Liverpool fans booing the national anthem the day before yesterday. Hillsborough was and is a scandal, that is for sure, and it needs redressing, but (honestly?) I think even if it were this wouldn't go away. No redress would never be enough and/or that legitimate grievance would be replaced by something else in the victim culture: class, snobbery, Fatch etc. There is something profoundly illogical here. The Royal Family had nothing to do with it - they are just a symbol and following through on that by targetting them has made them look disloyal, angry, aggressive and disrespectful and upset a lot of people.
I am now disinclined to lift a finger to help them - unlike I would for Aberfan and the Post Office scandal - which will no doubt reinforce their grievance. So the most likely outcome is that this goes on and on. I think it's important the facts and behaviour are called out so a change can be made.
Think about it.
The people of Liverpool are utterly distraught that you "are disinclined to lift a finger to help them". How will they cope?
By trying to ban me and call me a bigot, it seems.
Banning you would mean we can't ridicule you. Where's the fun in that?
I don't mind a bit of ridicule. It's probably healthy at some level.
I do mind the T and C word a bit though, and being called a bigot. We're better than that.
This subject seems to make otherwise normal people totally irrational.
You are a bit bigoted, though. You hate people who arent ultra monarchists, poor people, Scousers, Vegans, eco-activists, anyone who votes Green. You'd see me arrested and beaten up by the police or event stewards for protesting animal rights or climate change whereas I'd be ashamed if that happened to you. Maybe more than a bit bigoted?
Err, no.
I think you just take yourself, and what I say on here, a little bit too seriously.
Fella, I'd say most people on here feel the same about you. This is the internet, it doesn't do nuance, tone and context so I'm more than willing to believe that that's not the real you, but your posts say otherwise. You sound pretty angry these days.
I use this site to vent a bit, sometimes without much/any of a filter.
It's not representative of what I'm like in real life, as several pb'ers who've met me will attest to, but we're all very interested in politics and issues on here, and it's a passionate and intense subject, and my wife can only take so much.
We all come on here to let off steam (see the Collected Works of Malcomg Esq) don’t worry about it
Tho you do seem a little more dyspeptic than usual, but you have also explained your new job is stressing you out bigtime
I am trying to do something about that.
My review gave me a high performer, and accelerated track to Partner, but at what cost?
I spend all my time working basically.
Shift down to a 4 day week if you can afford to. It will do wonders for your mental state. I work half days on Friday but that's become a company policy rather than specific to me and it's been amazing being able to wrap up the week at around lunch time since we started doing it. Overall I'd say our productivity is up as well because people are properly rested on Monday and Tuesday so we get a lot more out of them and all we've done is turn unofficially clocking off at 3ish (officially when we were in office on Fridays) to officially calling it a half day at 1ish.
Thanks mate
Believe it or not I have periods when I work flat out. 12 hours a day of mental effort. 6/7 days a week And serious mental effort, not just meetings or rote-work
It sometimes leaves me physically ill. It depletes important resources and fucks the immune system. It’s only do-able or sensible in very short bursts
I think it’s happened to me here, a bit. I did 14 days of REALLY hard work with very little downtime. A barman I know here at the hotel actually got concerned - “Mister Leon, you are always working?!”
It’s left me with a mild bug and two days in bed. Shame. But the work is now done 🤷♂️
If I had to maintain that pace for months I’d crack up
I'm trying to work out if this is mega-irony or not.
This scandal is like Hillsborough, the authorities protect their own and not the victims.
No one will serve time for this shocking miscarriage of justice.
Perhaps, but unlike Liverpool we don't have a planet-sized chip on our shoulder and wallow in mawkish sentimentality and ugly self-pity, so we'll focus our efforts on change not bile.
You really are a twat when it comes to Liverpool.
At least 41 lives could have been saved that day if the authorities hadn’t screwed up and then covered it up.
Nothing has changed, nobody has served time for the deaths of 97 people.
I'd have stopped at word five.
Hmm. I'll save this one for the next time you complain about anyone getting personal at you.
Thanks for my first ever "flag". A badge of honour knowing it was awarded by you.
Liverpool should be nuked and levelled. Maybe we evacuate a few musicians first.
We can then start again. It hasn't worked.
Why do PB allow you to write such prejudicial nonsense without sanction? You wouldn't stereotype a specific race or creed, so why is it acceptable for the citizens of a city you don't like to be slandered by you?
Anyway off to polish my "flag".
I am describing the culture of the city. And I have said not all are like that, but many are.
I was very offended and insulted by the behaviour of Liverpool fans booing the national anthem the day before yesterday. Hillsborough was and is a scandal, that is for sure, and it needs redressing, but (honestly?) I think even if it were this wouldn't go away. No redress would never be enough and/or that legitimate grievance would be replaced by something else in the victim culture: class, snobbery, Fatch etc. There is something profoundly illogical here. The Royal Family had nothing to do with it - they are just a symbol and following through on that by targetting them has made them look disloyal, angry, aggressive and disrespectful and upset a lot of people.
I am now disinclined to lift a finger to help them - unlike I would for Aberfan and the Post Office scandal - which will no doubt reinforce their grievance. So the most likely outcome is that this goes on and on. I think it's important the facts and behaviour are called out so a change can be made.
Think about it.
The people of Liverpool are utterly distraught that you "are disinclined to lift a finger to help them". How will they cope?
By trying to ban me and call me a bigot, it seems.
Banning you would mean we can't ridicule you. Where's the fun in that?
I don't mind a bit of ridicule. It's probably healthy at some level.
I do mind the T and C word a bit though, and being called a bigot. We're better than that.
This subject seems to make otherwise normal people totally irrational.
You are a bit bigoted, though. You hate people who arent ultra monarchists, poor people, Scousers, Vegans, eco-activists, anyone who votes Green. You'd see me arrested and beaten up by the police or event stewards for protesting animal rights or climate change whereas I'd be ashamed if that happened to you. Maybe more than a bit bigoted?
Err, no.
I think you just take yourself, and what I say on here, a little bit too seriously.
Fella, I'd say most people on here feel the same about you. This is the internet, it doesn't do nuance, tone and context so I'm more than willing to believe that that's not the real you, but your posts say otherwise. You sound pretty angry these days.
I use this site to vent a bit, sometimes without much/any of a filter.
It's not representative of what I'm like in real life, as several pb'ers who've met me will attest to, but we're all very interested in politics and issues on here, and it's a passionate and intense subject, and my wife can only take so much.
We all come on here to let off steam (see the Collected Works of Malcomg Esq) don’t worry about it
Tho you do seem a little more dyspeptic than usual, but you have also explained your new job is stressing you out bigtime
I am trying to do something about that.
My review gave me a high performer, and accelerated track to Partner, but at what cost?
I spend all my time working basically.
That's the trade off with these jobs. Having been at partner level for more than 10 years it doesn't get any easier!
It's a challenging and exciting job, and one that is well rewarded, but if you don't enjoy it, or the cost to your family is too great, get out before you get too used to the money.
Thanks. That's what they keep telling me: it only gets worse!
And, really, do I really want that?
I also don't want people to think me a loser and be bossed around by someone 10-15 years younger, though, which, whilst I recognise is a bit of ego talking, also is because I want autonomy and freedom of action as a Partner and because I believe I am capable of doing it.
I think it's true I have an anger issue. Not really sure what I do about it. I genuinely like most people on here. Sometimes I can't control myself though.
It’s a different sort of worse… I have less “actual” work and analysis to do. But I have a global business so get calls from clients early and late, weekends and bank holidays. For example on Saturday I had to draft a detailed email to stop a client making a stupid mistake and then hop on a board call at 6.30 AM on Sunday morning. Total work was probably 1.5 hours (including a long call with the chairman) but maximum disruption. I’m now en route to the airport for a 2 day trip to NY.
Against that, people trust you and listen to you and you get to work with fantastic people and see and help solve really interesting problems.
To be honest, I would never want to be a long term director with no prospect of partnership. It wouldn’t suit me - for me it would be up or do something different. But that’s a personal thing - others are very happy being a “doer” rather than a rainmaker.
I would address the anger issue head on. Figure out what is causing it and address. May be it’s just stress. But it will take a toll on your family life and your work performance - I was once told that I should “never make an enemy unintentionally”… uncontrolled anger will cause that. It’s worth spending the time seeing a professional, and no shame on doing that. Think of it as an investment in your career - like personal coaching.
This scandal is like Hillsborough, the authorities protect their own and not the victims.
No one will serve time for this shocking miscarriage of justice.
Perhaps, but unlike Liverpool we don't have a planet-sized chip on our shoulder and wallow in mawkish sentimentality and ugly self-pity, so we'll focus our efforts on change not bile.
You really are a twat when it comes to Liverpool.
At least 41 lives could have been saved that day if the authorities hadn’t screwed up and then covered it up.
Nothing has changed, nobody has served time for the deaths of 97 people.
I'd have stopped at word five.
Hmm. I'll save this one for the next time you complain about anyone getting personal at you.
Thanks for my first ever "flag". A badge of honour knowing it was awarded by you.
Liverpool should be nuked and levelled. Maybe we evacuate a few musicians first.
We can then start again. It hasn't worked.
Why do PB allow you to write such prejudicial nonsense without sanction? You wouldn't stereotype a specific race or creed, so why is it acceptable for the citizens of a city you don't like to be slandered by you?
Anyway off to polish my "flag".
I am describing the culture of the city. And I have said not all are like that, but many are.
I was very offended and insulted by the behaviour of Liverpool fans booing the national anthem the day before yesterday. Hillsborough was and is a scandal, that is for sure, and it needs redressing, but (honestly?) I think even if it were this wouldn't go away. No redress would never be enough and/or that legitimate grievance would be replaced by something else in the victim culture: class, snobbery, Fatch etc. There is something profoundly illogical here. The Royal Family had nothing to do with it - they are just a symbol and following through on that by targetting them has made them look disloyal, angry, aggressive and disrespectful and upset a lot of people.
I am now disinclined to lift a finger to help them - unlike I would for Aberfan and the Post Office scandal - which will no doubt reinforce their grievance. So the most likely outcome is that this goes on and on. I think it's important the facts and behaviour are called out so a change can be made.
Think about it.
The people of Liverpool are utterly distraught that you "are disinclined to lift a finger to help them". How will they cope?
By trying to ban me and call me a bigot, it seems.
Banning you would mean we can't ridicule you. Where's the fun in that?
I don't mind a bit of ridicule. It's probably healthy at some level.
I do mind the T and C word a bit though, and being called a bigot. We're better than that.
This subject seems to make otherwise normal people totally irrational.
You are a bit bigoted, though. You hate people who arent ultra monarchists, poor people, Scousers, Vegans, eco-activists, anyone who votes Green. You'd see me arrested and beaten up by the police or event stewards for protesting animal rights or climate change whereas I'd be ashamed if that happened to you. Maybe more than a bit bigoted?
Err, no.
I think you just take yourself, and what I say on here, a little bit too seriously.
Fella, I'd say most people on here feel the same about you. This is the internet, it doesn't do nuance, tone and context so I'm more than willing to believe that that's not the real you, but your posts say otherwise. You sound pretty angry these days.
I use this site to vent a bit, sometimes without much/any of a filter.
It's not representative of what I'm like in real life, as several pb'ers who've met me will attest to, but we're all very interested in politics and issues on here, and it's a passionate and intense subject, and my wife can only take so much.
We all come on here to let off steam (see the Collected Works of Malcomg Esq) don’t worry about it
Tho you do seem a little more dyspeptic than usual, but you have also explained your new job is stressing you out bigtime
I am trying to do something about that.
My review gave me a high performer, and accelerated track to Partner, but at what cost?
I spend all my time working basically.
Shift down to a 4 day week if you can afford to. It will do wonders for your mental state. I work half days on Friday but that's become a company policy rather than specific to me and it's been amazing being able to wrap up the week at around lunch time since we started doing it. Overall I'd say our productivity is up as well because people are properly rested on Monday and Tuesday so we get a lot more out of them and all we've done is turn unofficially clocking off at 3ish (officially when we were in office on Fridays) to officially calling it a half day at 1ish.
Thanks mate
<>
If I had to maintain that pace for months I’d crack up
What about the native Americans? What about the Chinese used as virtual slave labour in the railways? What about non black slaves? What about whites whose forefathers were slaved by Barbary pirates?
This to me looks like the ultimate example of Woke Gone Mad and perhaps the only way you could ever turn California Republican
Where is that money going to come from?
I very much doubt it will ever materialise.
Borrowing. US state governments have the ability to go to the markets themselves.
I am trying to get my head round how a thread header describing a vast corruption, fraud and perjury scandal for which no one has ever been punished and no victims ever compensated ended up as a Two Minutes' Hate on Liverpool.
I get it started with Hillsborough and the cover up there, but it still seems the weirdest of weird non sequitur.
Snowflakes offended by the boos on Saturday.
So it's snowflakery if our national anthem and new Head of State is insulted and bigotry if we strongly criticise those who did it?
Got it.
You didn't criticise those who did it, but a whole city. And yes getting really upset about other people booing the national anthem is a bit snowflakey.
One of the best things about the UK is that we have tolerance of a wide range of views that includes both royalists and republicans. Celebrate that. A significant minority of Liverpool fans were a bit silly in booing the anthem, as are those who take offence.
It was a grave and total insult to the whole nation and upset a lot of people.
It was disgusting, particularly on Coronation Day. Totally disrespectful. I'm still annoyed about it today.
A backlash was to entirely be expected, and they can't complain they've now got one.
You and others will think that, they will think they are entirely justified as well. I think its a bit silly on both sides, and that they shouldn't have booed and others should have ignored their boos. And I am glad the UK allows both sides, and those who find it silly, to respond how they like. That's the kind of thing that makes me feel patriotic rather than kings and queens.
The tragedy of Penny Mordaunt's tilt at the Tory Leadership is that she actually appears to have empathy, even her political opponents in Portsmouth North give her credit for being a decent human being. But in the leadership contest she felt forced to deny her own empathy and get on the Culture War Train.
A decent Tory leader needs to come in and say, look I just won't go there, there are other issues. David Cameron and Osborne treaded that line - in my own very biased view - quite well.
I think quite honestly the Labour line of, we should treat people with love and compassion, is a good start. I don't doubt there are many issues of which we have discussed here and I am open to have my mind changed - but too many start from a position of hatred.
Is it a position of hatred to think that women’s sports should be reserved for biological females?
Possibly? Sport is a very wide category and it is clear that in many sports the additional strength of an non transitioned trans woman would be completely unfair. There are other sports like equestrian events where males and females already complete in single category competition so trans athletes in there should be a non-issue, Darts is another one where there's no reason why a trans woman would be at an advantage. For other sports it may be that some form of hormone treatment is required before the playing field is fair, that could be based on length of time or maximum testosterone limits. There are probably other sports where the effect of male puberty means that equal competition can never be achieved and in those cases it would be fair to exclude trans women.
So is it hatred? It would be if the motivation is to exclude trans women because you don't like trans women. It's not if the motivation is fairness to cis women competitors. But I want decisions like that to be made with careful study and science not by placards and chanting from either side of the argument.
Your use of the ugly "cis" word says it all, just say woman, any human can understand that
“Cis” is a loaded term. It means that you *identify* as the gender you were *assigned* at birth.
I don’t identify as male. I am male. That’s a fact, not an opinion.
It's the sort of thing Conservatives are accused of starting a "culture war" over for opposing but, of course, most people agree with them.
It's the one thing I think this Government have done a half-decent job on opposing.
This scandal is like Hillsborough, the authorities protect their own and not the victims.
No one will serve time for this shocking miscarriage of justice.
Perhaps, but unlike Liverpool we don't have a planet-sized chip on our shoulder and wallow in mawkish sentimentality and ugly self-pity, so we'll focus our efforts on change not bile.
You really are a twat when it comes to Liverpool.
At least 41 lives could have been saved that day if the authorities hadn’t screwed up and then covered it up.
Nothing has changed, nobody has served time for the deaths of 97 people.
How many lives could have been saved at Heysel if so many Liverpool fans weren’t drunken, homicidal louts?
It’s incredible how much Liverpool FC witters on about Hillsborough (which was undeniably awful) yet NEVER mentions Heysel. It’s not like they were centuries apart
Casino tees them up for you, and you hit them straight and true down the fairway of Political Betting.
Edwards II, III and IV tried to banned football on the grounds of public danger and nuisance.
They were of the opinion that mandatory assault weapon practise was better for the commonweal.
My views are slightly odd.
The first stirrings of self-awareness are always beautiful to behold….
Do we have a timescale over which the Post Office scandal occured?
If it was entirely under the government of one party there would be a self-interest in the other party being fully engaged. Otherwise not so much.
It is one of the main advantages of countries where you have accountable government and contested elections over those that don't that no stone is left unturned. Such efforts may be declining.
The tragedy of Penny Mordaunt's tilt at the Tory Leadership is that she actually appears to have empathy, even her political opponents in Portsmouth North give her credit for being a decent human being. But in the leadership contest she felt forced to deny her own empathy and get on the Culture War Train.
A decent Tory leader needs to come in and say, look I just won't go there, there are other issues. David Cameron and Osborne treaded that line - in my own very biased view - quite well.
I think quite honestly the Labour line of, we should treat people with love and compassion, is a good start. I don't doubt there are many issues of which we have discussed here and I am open to have my mind changed - but too many start from a position of hatred.
Is it a position of hatred to think that women’s sports should be reserved for biological females?
Possibly? Sport is a very wide category and it is clear that in many sports the additional strength of an non transitioned trans woman would be completely unfair. There are other sports like equestrian events where males and females already complete in single category competition so trans athletes in there should be a non-issue, Darts is another one where there's no reason why a trans woman would be at an advantage. For other sports it may be that some form of hormone treatment is required before the playing field is fair, that could be based on length of time or maximum testosterone limits. There are probably other sports where the effect of male puberty means that equal competition can never be achieved and in those cases it would be fair to exclude trans women.
So is it hatred? It would be if the motivation is to exclude trans women because you don't like trans women. It's not if the motivation is fairness to cis women competitors. But I want decisions like that to be made with careful study and science not by placards and chanting from either side of the argument.
Your use of the ugly "cis" word says it all, just say woman, any human can understand that
“Cis” is a loaded term. It means that you *identify* as the gender you were *assigned* at birth.
I don’t identify as male. I am male. That’s a fact, not an opinion.
It's the sort of thing Conservatives are accused of starting a "culture war" over for opposing but, of course, most people agree with them.
It's the one thing I think this Government have done a half-decent job on opposing.
You are entitled to your point of view.
So how do you feel the best way to include trans people in society is?
Can somebody who understands this shit explain what, exactly, was wrong with the stupid software?
A person(*) or computer tries to tell another person or computer that a transaction has occurred. This fails for some reason. How do you prevent lost transactions, double counting (if you just resend)?
The software in question was shit at this. Phantom transactions all over the place.
This problem has been solved many times. Fucking it up like this means that the design was shit.
*it’s a problem from long before computers.
The question is why this software wasn't properly vetted before they started to use it.
This scandal is like Hillsborough, the authorities protect their own and not the victims.
No one will serve time for this shocking miscarriage of justice.
Perhaps, but unlike Liverpool we don't have a planet-sized chip on our shoulder and wallow in mawkish sentimentality and ugly self-pity, so we'll focus our efforts on change not bile.
You really are a twat when it comes to Liverpool.
At least 41 lives could have been saved that day if the authorities hadn’t screwed up and then covered it up.
Nothing has changed, nobody has served time for the deaths of 97 people.
I'd have stopped at word five.
Hmm. I'll save this one for the next time you complain about anyone getting personal at you.
Thanks for my first ever "flag". A badge of honour knowing it was awarded by you.
Liverpool should be nuked and levelled. Maybe we evacuate a few musicians first.
We can then start again. It hasn't worked.
Why do PB allow you to write such prejudicial nonsense without sanction? You wouldn't stereotype a specific race or creed, so why is it acceptable for the citizens of a city you don't like to be slandered by you?
Anyway off to polish my "flag".
I am describing the culture of the city. And I have said not all are like that, but many are.
I was very offended and insulted by the behaviour of Liverpool fans booing the national anthem the day before yesterday. Hillsborough was and is a scandal, that is for sure, and it needs redressing, but (honestly?) I think even if it were this wouldn't go away. No redress would never be enough and/or that legitimate grievance would be replaced by something else in the victim culture: class, snobbery, Fatch etc. There is something profoundly illogical here. The Royal Family had nothing to do with it - they are just a symbol and following through on that by targetting them has made them look disloyal, angry, aggressive and disrespectful and upset a lot of people.
I am now disinclined to lift a finger to help them - unlike I would for Aberfan and the Post Office scandal - which will no doubt reinforce their grievance. So the most likely outcome is that this goes on and on. I think it's important the facts and behaviour are called out so a change can be made.
Think about it.
The people of Liverpool are utterly distraught that you "are disinclined to lift a finger to help them". How will they cope?
By trying to ban me and call me a bigot, it seems.
Banning you would mean we can't ridicule you. Where's the fun in that?
I don't mind a bit of ridicule. It's probably healthy at some level.
I do mind the T and C word a bit though, and being called a bigot. We're better than that.
This subject seems to make otherwise normal people totally irrational.
You are a bit bigoted, though. You hate people who arent ultra monarchists, poor people, Scousers, Vegans, eco-activists, anyone who votes Green. You'd see me arrested and beaten up by the police or event stewards for protesting animal rights or climate change whereas I'd be ashamed if that happened to you. Maybe more than a bit bigoted?
Err, no.
I think you just take yourself, and what I say on here, a little bit too seriously.
Fella, I'd say most people on here feel the same about you. This is the internet, it doesn't do nuance, tone and context so I'm more than willing to believe that that's not the real you, but your posts say otherwise. You sound pretty angry these days.
I use this site to vent a bit, sometimes without much/any of a filter.
It's not representative of what I'm like in real life, as several pb'ers who've met me will attest to, but we're all very interested in politics and issues on here, and it's a passionate and intense subject, and my wife can only take so much.
We all come on here to let off steam (see the Collected Works of Malcomg Esq) don’t worry about it
Tho you do seem a little more dyspeptic than usual, but you have also explained your new job is stressing you out bigtime
I am trying to do something about that.
My review gave me a high performer, and accelerated track to Partner, but at what cost?
I spend all my time working basically.
Shift down to a 4 day week if you can afford to. It will do wonders for your mental state. I work half days on Friday but that's become a company policy rather than specific to me and it's been amazing being able to wrap up the week at around lunch time since we started doing it. Overall I'd say our productivity is up as well because people are properly rested on Monday and Tuesday so we get a lot more out of them and all we've done is turn unofficially clocking off at 3ish (officially when we were in office on Fridays) to officially calling it a half day at 1ish.
Thanks mate
Believe it or not I have periods when I work flat out. 12 hours a day of mental effort. 6/7 days a week And serious mental effort, not just meetings or rote-work
It sometimes leaves me physically ill. It depletes important resources and fucks the immune system. It’s only do-able or sensible in very short bursts
I think it’s happened to me here, a bit. I did 14 days of REALLY hard work with very little downtime. A barman I know here at the hotel actually got concerned - “Mister Leon, you are always working?!”
It’s left me with a mild bug and two days in bed. Shame. But the work is now done 🤷♂️
If I had to maintain that pace for months I’d crack up
I'm trying to work out if this is mega-irony or not.
It’s genuinely not ironic. My life is notably stress free most of the time (compared to the lives of many)
But it has these intense periods when I have to go all-in and work every hour I can and sleep patterns get screwed and I can feel it grinding me down inside - it often leaves me poorly - so I can empathise with those who do this over months or years. I couldn’t do it
In the end it would mess with your head so perhaps that is where @CasinoRoyale’s anger emanates
I am trying to get my head round how a thread header describing a vast corruption, fraud and perjury scandal for which no one has ever been punished and no victims ever compensated ended up as a Two Minutes' Hate on Liverpool.
I get it started with Hillsborough and the cover up there, but it still seems the weirdest of weird non sequitur.
Snowflakes offended by the boos on Saturday.
So it's snowflakery if our national anthem and new Head of State is insulted and bigotry if we strongly criticise those who did it?
Got it.
Do you think it's acceptable that people that protest the King peacefully should be arrested?
Holding up placards, t-shirts and making views known, yes. Active disruption and setting off rape alarms, no.
Given the behaviour of Just Stop Oil in recent weeks the Met were perfectly entitled to act preemptively, and I'd have done the same.
I dare say you would. But the right to protest, subject to the approval of Casino_Royale, is not much of a right. Ditto the Met.
Some years ago, when the fashion for raves was a big thing a framer retaliated in the following manner. He hired a PA system and played his own music, from his own property, at deafening volume towards the illegal rave in the next field. Due to the geography of a stream, very deep muddy ditch and a massive hedge, he was completely safe doing so. The rave failed, basically.
There was a torrent of protest from the ravers about their rights being trampled. What say you?
It seems the board/senior management have been paid bonuses they are not entitled to based on false information. The CEO will repay it but they are still considering whether the others should. I wonder if there will be a fraud investigation.....
It beggars belief, that knowing what had gone on and that the Management were responsible, as it was on their watch, that they thought any kind of bonus was appropriate.
Does it beggar belief more than the fact that these people, who prima facie conspired to pervert the course of justice, have not only not been prosecuted but are still in their jobs?
It may beggar belief. But it is also standard operating procedure around the world.
Above a certain level, there is no failure. Well failure is redefined as “Nothing will happen to you. At the very, very worst, you will lose your job. With a golden goodbye. Then a new job will be sorted out for you. Golden hello, more money”
When one of the senior people responsible for covering up Rotherham was offered a bigger, better job, running a child care organisation, overseas, someone suggested that providing a reference wasn’t the right thing to do.
This was described as “disgusting” and “vindictive”. The reference was provided.
This is what I call the New Upper 10,000
Funny, I call them a word that contains N, U and T as well.
Just not in that order and you See from the start...
This scandal is like Hillsborough, the authorities protect their own and not the victims.
No one will serve time for this shocking miscarriage of justice.
Perhaps, but unlike Liverpool we don't have a planet-sized chip on our shoulder and wallow in mawkish sentimentality and ugly self-pity, so we'll focus our efforts on change not bile.
You really are a twat when it comes to Liverpool.
At least 41 lives could have been saved that day if the authorities hadn’t screwed up and then covered it up.
Nothing has changed, nobody has served time for the deaths of 97 people.
I'd have stopped at word five.
Hmm. I'll save this one for the next time you complain about anyone getting personal at you.
Thanks for my first ever "flag". A badge of honour knowing it was awarded by you.
Liverpool should be nuked and levelled. Maybe we evacuate a few musicians first.
We can then start again. It hasn't worked.
Why do PB allow you to write such prejudicial nonsense without sanction? You wouldn't stereotype a specific race or creed, so why is it acceptable for the citizens of a city you don't like to be slandered by you?
Anyway off to polish my "flag".
I am describing the culture of the city. And I have said not all are like that, but many are.
I was very offended and insulted by the behaviour of Liverpool fans booing the national anthem the day before yesterday. Hillsborough was and is a scandal, that is for sure, and it needs redressing, but (honestly?) I think even if it were this wouldn't go away. No redress would never be enough and/or that legitimate grievance would be replaced by something else in the victim culture: class, snobbery, Fatch etc. There is something profoundly illogical here. The Royal Family had nothing to do with it - they are just a symbol and following through on that by targetting them has made them look disloyal, angry, aggressive and disrespectful and upset a lot of people.
I am now disinclined to lift a finger to help them - unlike I would for Aberfan and the Post Office scandal - which will no doubt reinforce their grievance. So the most likely outcome is that this goes on and on. I think it's important the facts and behaviour are called out so a change can be made.
Think about it.
The people of Liverpool are utterly distraught that you "are disinclined to lift a finger to help them". How will they cope?
By trying to ban me and call me a bigot, it seems.
Banning you would mean we can't ridicule you. Where's the fun in that?
I don't mind a bit of ridicule. It's probably healthy at some level.
I do mind the T and C word a bit though, and being called a bigot. We're better than that.
This subject seems to make otherwise normal people totally irrational.
You are a bit bigoted, though. You hate people who arent ultra monarchists, poor people, Scousers, Vegans, eco-activists, anyone who votes Green. You'd see me arrested and beaten up by the police or event stewards for protesting animal rights or climate change whereas I'd be ashamed if that happened to you. Maybe more than a bit bigoted?
Err, no.
I think you just take yourself, and what I say on here, a little bit too seriously.
Fella, I'd say most people on here feel the same about you. This is the internet, it doesn't do nuance, tone and context so I'm more than willing to believe that that's not the real you, but your posts say otherwise. You sound pretty angry these days.
I use this site to vent a bit, sometimes without much/any of a filter.
It's not representative of what I'm like in real life, as several pb'ers who've met me will attest to, but we're all very interested in politics and issues on here, and it's a passionate and intense subject, and my wife can only take so much.
We all come on here to let off steam (see the Collected Works of Malcomg Esq) don’t worry about it
Tho you do seem a little more dyspeptic than usual, but you have also explained your new job is stressing you out bigtime
I am trying to do something about that.
My review gave me a high performer, and accelerated track to Partner, but at what cost?
I spend all my time working basically.
Shift down to a 4 day week if you can afford to. It will do wonders for your mental state. I work half days on Friday but that's become a company policy rather than specific to me and it's been amazing being able to wrap up the week at around lunch time since we started doing it. Overall I'd say our productivity is up as well because people are properly rested on Monday and Tuesday so we get a lot more out of them and all we've done is turn unofficially clocking off at 3ish (officially when we were in office on Fridays) to officially calling it a half day at 1ish.
Thanks mate
Believe it or not I have periods when I work flat out. 12 hours a day of mental effort. 6/7 days a week And serious mental effort, not just meetings or rote-work
It sometimes leaves me physically ill. It depletes important resources and fucks the immune system. It’s only do-able or sensible in very short bursts
I think it’s happened to me here, a bit. I did 14 days of REALLY hard work with very little downtime. A barman I know here at the hotel actually got concerned - “Mister Leon, you are always working?!”
It’s left me with a mild bug and two days in bed. Shame. But the work is now done 🤷♂️
If I had to maintain that pace for months I’d crack up
I'm trying to work out if this is mega-irony or not.
It’s genuinely not ironic. My life is notably stress free most of the time (compared to the lives of many)
But it has these intense periods when I have to go all-in and work every hour I can and sleep patterns get screwed and I can feel it grinding me down inside - it often leaves me poorly - so I can empathise with those who do this over months or years. I couldn’t do it
In the end it would mess with your head so perhaps that is where @CasinoRoyale’s anger emanates
Also I’m in my late 50s and it’s just KNACKERING
Far enough. I thought you line about the barman might be the tell that 'work' was being put to a euphemistic use.
This scandal is like Hillsborough, the authorities protect their own and not the victims.
No one will serve time for this shocking miscarriage of justice.
Perhaps, but unlike Liverpool we don't have a planet-sized chip on our shoulder and wallow in mawkish sentimentality and ugly self-pity, so we'll focus our efforts on change not bile.
You really are a twat when it comes to Liverpool.
At least 41 lives could have been saved that day if the authorities hadn’t screwed up and then covered it up.
Nothing has changed, nobody has served time for the deaths of 97 people.
I'd have stopped at word five.
Hmm. I'll save this one for the next time you complain about anyone getting personal at you.
Thanks for my first ever "flag". A badge of honour knowing it was awarded by you.
Liverpool should be nuked and levelled. Maybe we evacuate a few musicians first.
We can then start again. It hasn't worked.
Why do PB allow you to write such prejudicial nonsense without sanction? You wouldn't stereotype a specific race or creed, so why is it acceptable for the citizens of a city you don't like to be slandered by you?
Anyway off to polish my "flag".
I am describing the culture of the city. And I have said not all are like that, but many are.
I was very offended and insulted by the behaviour of Liverpool fans booing the national anthem the day before yesterday. Hillsborough was and is a scandal, that is for sure, and it needs redressing, but (honestly?) I think even if it were this wouldn't go away. No redress would never be enough and/or that legitimate grievance would be replaced by something else in the victim culture: class, snobbery, Fatch etc. There is something profoundly illogical here. The Royal Family had nothing to do with it - they are just a symbol and following through on that by targetting them has made them look disloyal, angry, aggressive and disrespectful and upset a lot of people.
I am now disinclined to lift a finger to help them - unlike I would for Aberfan and the Post Office scandal - which will no doubt reinforce their grievance. So the most likely outcome is that this goes on and on. I think it's important the facts and behaviour are called out so a change can be made.
Think about it.
The people of Liverpool are utterly distraught that you "are disinclined to lift a finger to help them". How will they cope?
By trying to ban me and call me a bigot, it seems.
Banning you would mean we can't ridicule you. Where's the fun in that?
I don't mind a bit of ridicule. It's probably healthy at some level.
I do mind the T and C word a bit though, and being called a bigot. We're better than that.
This subject seems to make otherwise normal people totally irrational.
You are a bit bigoted, though. You hate people who arent ultra monarchists, poor people, Scousers, Vegans, eco-activists, anyone who votes Green. You'd see me arrested and beaten up by the police or event stewards for protesting animal rights or climate change whereas I'd be ashamed if that happened to you. Maybe more than a bit bigoted?
Err, no.
I think you just take yourself, and what I say on here, a little bit too seriously.
Fella, I'd say most people on here feel the same about you. This is the internet, it doesn't do nuance, tone and context so I'm more than willing to believe that that's not the real you, but your posts say otherwise. You sound pretty angry these days.
I use this site to vent a bit, sometimes without much/any of a filter.
It's not representative of what I'm like in real life, as several pb'ers who've met me will attest to, but we're all very interested in politics and issues on here, and it's a passionate and intense subject, and my wife can only take so much.
We all come on here to let off steam (see the Collected Works of Malcomg Esq) don’t worry about it
Tho you do seem a little more dyspeptic than usual, but you have also explained your new job is stressing you out bigtime
I am trying to do something about that.
My review gave me a high performer, and accelerated track to Partner, but at what cost?
I spend all my time working basically.
That's the trade off with these jobs. Having been at partner level for more than 10 years it doesn't get any easier!
It's a challenging and exciting job, and one that is well rewarded, but if you don't enjoy it, or the cost to your family is too great, get out before you get too used to the money.
Thanks. That's what they keep telling me: it only gets worse!
And, really, do I really want that?
I also don't want people to think me a loser and be bossed around by someone 10-15 years younger, though, which, whilst I recognise is a bit of ego talking, also is because I want autonomy and freedom of action as a Partner and because I believe I am capable of doing it.
I think it's true I have an anger issue. Not really sure what I do about it. I genuinely like most people on here. Sometimes I can't control myself though.
I think it depends if you can figure out an alternative path for your career. If you can't see yourself happy with life in the 'second division', then you are probably going to be consumed by regret if you quit now.
I made a deliberate move from the first division to the second division a couple of years ago, and found that it was the right thing to do personally, I enjoyed work for the first time in many years, and just filing set hours, not having to work weekends etc. I got loads of new experience and was quickly advancing and earning more money than I was doing before.
It seems the board/senior management have been paid bonuses they are not entitled to based on false information. The CEO will repay it but they are still considering whether the others should. I wonder if there will be a fraud investigation.....
It beggars belief, that knowing what had gone on and that the Management were responsible, as it was on their watch, that they thought any kind of bonus was appropriate.
Does it beggar belief more than the fact that these people, who prima facie conspired to pervert the course of justice, have not only not been prosecuted but are still in their jobs?
It may beggar belief. But it is also standard operating procedure around the world.
Above a certain level, there is no failure. Well failure is redefined as “Nothing will happen to you. At the very, very worst, you will lose your job. With a golden goodbye. Then a new job will be sorted out for you. Golden hello, more money”
When one of the senior people responsible for covering up Rotherham was offered a bigger, better job, running a child care organisation, overseas, someone suggested that providing a reference wasn’t the right thing to do.
This was described as “disgusting” and “vindictive”. The reference was provided.
This is what I call the New Upper 10,000
Funny, I call them a word that contains N, U and T as well.
Just not in that order and you See from the start...
The people at the top who get criticised see themselves as the real victims.
I'm reminded of Mrs Pike's dialogue with Mainwaring:
M: Now look, Mrs Pike, I cannot have you come in here all the time and criticise my running of this platoon.
Mrs P: Then you should run it better.
The interview with Alistair Campbell stuck in my mind. The one where he bared his soul about the appalling tribulations he went through over Iraq. I believe he had to check into the Priory at one point.
The bit that particular stuck in my mind was the complete absence of any mention of any Iraqis in that vale of tears.
I am trying to get my head round how a thread header describing a vast corruption, fraud and perjury scandal for which no one has ever been punished and no victims ever compensated ended up as a Two Minutes' Hate on Liverpool.
I get it started with Hillsborough and the cover up there, but it still seems the weirdest of weird non sequitur.
Snowflakes offended by the boos on Saturday.
So it's snowflakery if our national anthem and new Head of State is insulted and bigotry if we strongly criticise those who did it?
Got it.
Do you think it's acceptable that people that protest the King peacefully should be arrested?
Holding up placards, t-shirts and making views known, yes. Active disruption and setting off rape alarms, no.
Given the behaviour of Just Stop Oil in recent weeks the Met were perfectly entitled to act preemptively, and I'd have done the same.
I dare say you would. But the right to protest, subject to the approval of Casino_Royale, is not much of a right. Ditto the Met.
Some years ago, when the fashion for raves was a big thing a framer retaliated in the following manner. He hired a PA system and played his own music, from his own property, at deafening volume towards the illegal rave in the next field. Due to the geography of a stream, very deep muddy ditch and a massive hedge, he was completely safe doing so. The rave failed, basically.
There was a torrent of protest from the ravers about their rights being trampled. What say you?
The tragedy of Penny Mordaunt's tilt at the Tory Leadership is that she actually appears to have empathy, even her political opponents in Portsmouth North give her credit for being a decent human being. But in the leadership contest she felt forced to deny her own empathy and get on the Culture War Train.
A decent Tory leader needs to come in and say, look I just won't go there, there are other issues. David Cameron and Osborne treaded that line - in my own very biased view - quite well.
I think quite honestly the Labour line of, we should treat people with love and compassion, is a good start. I don't doubt there are many issues of which we have discussed here and I am open to have my mind changed - but too many start from a position of hatred.
Is it a position of hatred to think that women’s sports should be reserved for biological females?
Possibly? Sport is a very wide category and it is clear that in many sports the additional strength of an non transitioned trans woman would be completely unfair. There are other sports like equestrian events where males and females already complete in single category competition so trans athletes in there should be a non-issue, Darts is another one where there's no reason why a trans woman would be at an advantage. For other sports it may be that some form of hormone treatment is required before the playing field is fair, that could be based on length of time or maximum testosterone limits. There are probably other sports where the effect of male puberty means that equal competition can never be achieved and in those cases it would be fair to exclude trans women.
So is it hatred? It would be if the motivation is to exclude trans women because you don't like trans women. It's not if the motivation is fairness to cis women competitors. But I want decisions like that to be made with careful study and science not by placards and chanting from either side of the argument.
Your use of the ugly "cis" word says it all, just say woman, any human can understand that
“Cis” is a loaded term. It means that you *identify* as the gender you were *assigned* at birth.
I don’t identify as male. I am male. That’s a fact, not an opinion.
It's the sort of thing Conservatives are accused of starting a "culture war" over for opposing but, of course, most people agree with them.
It's the one thing I think this Government have done a half-decent job on opposing.
You are entitled to your point of view.
So how do you feel the best way to include trans people in society is?
By treating them with the same dignity and respect afforded to other members of society. But not by overruling the valid rights of others.
The positive thing about this 'post office scandal' is that the post office got found out. It is important not to lose sight of that. I also think that the 'cancellation' of Paula Vennells will probably have a positive influence on other CEOs who may be involved in similar things.
She still a Lay Reader, a sort of an assistant priest, in the Church of England, isn’t she?
And this year‘s annual report said that it had been approved by the chairman of the enquiry, when, in fact it hadn’t. Apologies, were given but it was still a deliberate lie.
I think that this story is probably quite complicated - not so much what happened at the start (the abuse of power and miscarriage of justice) but who was responsible for what in the aftermath. Looking at the question of participation in the enquiry, this is going to be difficult. Not sure what is going on with these 'bonuses' but some remuneration is going to be involved.
I'd also challenge the idea that Vennells (or anyone else found to have 'done wrong') should be hounded out of every voluntary position they have.
One of the issues this raises, is that if you are the leader of a large organisation, there are inevitably going to be problems coming up, potentially of this magnitude. If as leader you become a lightning rod for all criticism and then get ruined when it goes wrong; whilst other people below you who are responsible for the problems plod on anonymously and protected by employment law/trade unions etc, then competent people will be put off becoming a leader.
Sorry @darkage, but while I’d agree generally, I think that if the Church is going to retain what’s left of its moral authority ‘something’ ought to be done, and seen to be done, about Vennells. I take the point, too, about defences being provided to members of trade associations, trade unions etc., but if they are guilty, then down they go.
As I understood it, she stepped down from her role as a part time Minister. I see that it would be impossible for her to carry on with that role after what happened at the post office, but I object to her being removed from any position in any organisation.
The prosections started in 2000, that is 7 years before she even joined the Post Office, and 12 years before she became CEO of it.
Point noted re her time in office, but as someone else pointed out, why didn't she, apparently, ask any questions.
Arts grad.
No particular reason to think she had the number grock to see that the figures simply didn't add up. And if the computer was saying something, who was she to question it?
(Very few people do have that sense of numbers, the ability y
@kinabalu reflecting over the weekend I think Labour won't get there on raw vote lead but, at present, tactical voting will get them over the line.
Sunak may be able to make that more complex over the next 18 months. Depends on him getting a lot right, and being lucky, though, and a few Starmer missteps.
UNS from 2019 is definitely not going to happen, and the shift is going to be against the Conservatives.
Whatever else you think of him, there's way less need to keep Starmer out than Corbyn.
This scandal is like Hillsborough, the authorities protect their own and not the victims.
No one will serve time for this shocking miscarriage of justice.
Perhaps, but unlike Liverpool we don't have a planet-sized chip on our shoulder and wallow in mawkish sentimentality and ugly self-pity, so we'll focus our efforts on change not bile.
You really are a twat when it comes to Liverpool.
At least 41 lives could have been saved that day if the authorities hadn’t screwed up and then covered it up.
Nothing has changed, nobody has served time for the deaths of 97 people.
I'd have stopped at word five.
Hmm. I'll save this one for the next time you complain about anyone getting personal at you.
Thanks for my first ever "flag". A badge of honour knowing it was awarded by you.
Liverpool should be nuked and levelled. Maybe we evacuate a few musicians first.
We can then start again. It hasn't worked.
Why do PB allow you to write such prejudicial nonsense without sanction? You wouldn't stereotype a specific race or creed, so why is it acceptable for the citizens of a city you don't like to be slandered by you?
Anyway off to polish my "flag".
I am describing the culture of the city. And I have said not all are like that, but many are.
I was very offended and insulted by the behaviour of Liverpool fans booing the national anthem the day before yesterday. Hillsborough was and is a scandal, that is for sure, and it needs redressing, but (honestly?) I think even if it were this wouldn't go away. No redress would never be enough and/or that legitimate grievance would be replaced by something else in the victim culture: class, snobbery, Fatch etc. There is something profoundly illogical here. The Royal Family had nothing to do with it - they are just a symbol and following through on that by targetting them has made them look disloyal, angry, aggressive and disrespectful and upset a lot of people.
I am now disinclined to lift a finger to help them - unlike I would for Aberfan and the Post Office scandal - which will no doubt reinforce their grievance. So the most likely outcome is that this goes on and on. I think it's important the facts and behaviour are called out so a change can be made.
Think about it.
The people of Liverpool are utterly distraught that you "are disinclined to lift a finger to help them". How will they cope?
By trying to ban me and call me a bigot, it seems.
Banning you would mean we can't ridicule you. Where's the fun in that?
I don't mind a bit of ridicule. It's probably healthy at some level.
I do mind the T and C word a bit though, and being called a bigot. We're better than that.
This subject seems to make otherwise normal people totally irrational.
You are a bit bigoted, though. You hate people who arent ultra monarchists, poor people, Scousers, Vegans, eco-activists, anyone who votes Green. You'd see me arrested and beaten up by the police or event stewards for protesting animal rights or climate change whereas I'd be ashamed if that happened to you. Maybe more than a bit bigoted?
Err, no.
I think you just take yourself, and what I say on here, a little bit too seriously.
Fella, I'd say most people on here feel the same about you. This is the internet, it doesn't do nuance, tone and context so I'm more than willing to believe that that's not the real you, but your posts say otherwise. You sound pretty angry these days.
I use this site to vent a bit, sometimes without much/any of a filter.
It's not representative of what I'm like in real life, as several pb'ers who've met me will attest to, but we're all very interested in politics and issues on here, and it's a passionate and intense subject, and my wife can only take so much.
We all come on here to let off steam (see the Collected Works of Malcomg Esq) don’t worry about it
Tho you do seem a little more dyspeptic than usual, but you have also explained your new job is stressing you out bigtime
I am trying to do something about that.
My review gave me a high performer, and accelerated track to Partner, but at what cost?
I spend all my time working basically.
That's the trade off with these jobs. Having been at partner level for more than 10 years it doesn't get any easier!
It's a challenging and exciting job, and one that is well rewarded, but if you don't enjoy it, or the cost to your family is too great, get out before you get too used to the money.
Thanks. That's what they keep telling me: it only gets worse!
And, really, do I really want that?
I also don't want people to think me a loser and be bossed around by someone 10-15 years younger, though, which, whilst I recognise is a bit of ego talking, also is because I want autonomy and freedom of action as a Partner and because I believe I am capable of doing it.
I think it's true I have an anger issue. Not really sure what I do about it. I genuinely like most people on here. Sometimes I can't control myself though.
It’s a different sort of worse… I have less “actual” work and analysis to do. But I have a global business so get calls from clients early and late, weekends and bank holidays. For example on Saturday I had to draft a detailed email to stop a client making a stupid mistake and then hop on a board call at 6.30 AM on Sunday morning. Total work was probably 1.5 hours (including a long call with the chairman) but maximum disruption. I’m now en route to the airport for a 2 day trip to NY.
Against that, people trust you and listen to you and you get to work with fantastic people and see and help solve really interesting problems.
To be honest, I would never want to be a long term director with no prospect of partnership. It wouldn’t suit me - for me it would be up or do something different. But that’s a personal thing - others are very happy being a “doer” rather than a rainmaker.
I would address the anger issue head on. Figure out what is causing it and address. May be it’s just stress. But it will take a toll on your family life and your work performance - I was once told that I should “never make an enemy unintentionally”… uncontrolled anger will cause that. It’s worth spending the time seeing a professional, and no shame on doing that. Think of it as an investment in your career - like personal coaching.
That's really helpful.
Thank you.
I would also say that you shouldn’t be so hard on yourself, or perhaps could temper your expectations.
You have a young child, and maybe the intention of having more, and from my experience it’s hard to maintain the way you worked in your 20s and early 30s into your 40s with the additional responsibility of family.
Allow yourself to accept that for the next several years, you’ll simply have less time for work. And accept that this might also mean a slower rise up the ladder.
That Prigozhin "mahogany desks" video... Something's got to break in Moscow. Saner elements in NATO governments will be hoping it's not Putin.
Actually, they might be hoping it's Prigozhin *and* Putin. Preferably with Medvedev, Mishustin, Lavrov, Bortnikov and Shoygu thrown in.
Can Debbie Harry revert to her 1977 form too and come and give me a private concert? By "saner" I meant those who don't want nuclear war and who can keep a grasp of what the set of likely possibilities is in Russia, even if it doesn't overlap with what they'd most prefer.
For sure, Prigozhin talking that way can't continue for long for obvious reasons.
The tragedy of Penny Mordaunt's tilt at the Tory Leadership is that she actually appears to have empathy, even her political opponents in Portsmouth North give her credit for being a decent human being. But in the leadership contest she felt forced to deny her own empathy and get on the Culture War Train.
A decent Tory leader needs to come in and say, look I just won't go there, there are other issues. David Cameron and Osborne treaded that line - in my own very biased view - quite well.
I think quite honestly the Labour line of, we should treat people with love and compassion, is a good start. I don't doubt there are many issues of which we have discussed here and I am open to have my mind changed - but too many start from a position of hatred.
Is it a position of hatred to think that women’s sports should be reserved for biological females?
Possibly? Sport is a very wide category and it is clear that in many sports the additional strength of an non transitioned trans woman would be completely unfair. There are other sports like equestrian events where males and females already complete in single category competition so trans athletes in there should be a non-issue, Darts is another one where there's no reason why a trans woman would be at an advantage. For other sports it may be that some form of hormone treatment is required before the playing field is fair, that could be based on length of time or maximum testosterone limits. There are probably other sports where the effect of male puberty means that equal competition can never be achieved and in those cases it would be fair to exclude trans women.
So is it hatred? It would be if the motivation is to exclude trans women because you don't like trans women. It's not if the motivation is fairness to cis women competitors. But I want decisions like that to be made with careful study and science not by placards and chanting from either side of the argument.
Your use of the ugly "cis" word says it all, just say woman, any human can understand that
“Cis” is a loaded term. It means that you *identify* as the gender you were *assigned* at birth.
I don’t identify as male. I am male. That’s a fact, not an opinion.
You may not recognize gender identity but the law does. The Gender Recognition Act 2004 allows transgender people to obtain a Gender Recognition Certificate marking their transition from F to M or vice versa. No mainstream political party is proposing to repeal this afaik. Not even the Tories for all their pointed virtue-signalling talk about "women can't have a penis lol" etc.
I am trying to get my head round how a thread header describing a vast corruption, fraud and perjury scandal for which no one has ever been punished and no victims ever compensated ended up as a Two Minutes' Hate on Liverpool.
I get it started with Hillsborough and the cover up there, but it still seems the weirdest of weird non sequitur.
Snowflakes offended by the boos on Saturday.
So it's snowflakery if our national anthem and new Head of State is insulted and bigotry if we strongly criticise those who did it?
Got it.
Do you think it's acceptable that people that protest the King peacefully should be arrested?
Holding up placards, t-shirts and making views known, yes. Active disruption and setting off rape alarms, no.
Given the behaviour of Just Stop Oil in recent weeks the Met were perfectly entitled to act preemptively, and I'd have done the same.
I dare say you would. But the right to protest, subject to the approval of Casino_Royale, is not much of a right. Ditto the Met.
Some years ago, when the fashion for raves was a big thing a framer retaliated in the following manner. He hired a PA system and played his own music, from his own property, at deafening volume towards the illegal rave in the next field. Due to the geography of a stream, very deep muddy ditch and a massive hedge, he was completely safe doing so. The rave failed, basically.
There was a torrent of protest from the ravers about their rights being trampled. What say you?
Was it coming out of leftfield?
They may even have been playing tracks by Leftfield.
Can somebody who understands this shit explain what, exactly, was wrong with the stupid software?
A person(*) or computer tries to tell another person or computer that a transaction has occurred. This fails for some reason. How do you prevent lost transactions, double counting (if you just resend)?
The software in question was shit at this. Phantom transactions all over the place.
This problem has been solved many times. Fucking it up like this means that the design was shit.
*it’s a problem from long before computers.
The question is why this software wasn't properly vetted before they started to use it.
The following is a guess.
The name of the game here is pretty much "Eventual Consistency". They probably fucked up the synchronisation mechanisms because of stupid performance requirements, or ignorance.
The synchronisation flaws only showed up under a significant load. The testing didn't generate a significant load and/or a significant number of failure in delivery, failure in resend etc etc.
Very easy to test the Happy Path (everything is happy, sun shining, daisies growing).
I personally enjoy torturing software. One manager asked me why I had created a test which involve a failure to handle a failure of a failure to handle a failure. I pointed out that, while that was a 1 in a billion thing, we were doing billions of transactions per year. So I was testing for a case that would probably occur a slack handful of times a year.
So their software started to fuck up in real life - having passed the tests. But the fuck up wasn't caught. And was probably fundamental to the way transaction were handled. So big, big expense and effort in guiding back to fix the problem.
This scandal is like Hillsborough, the authorities protect their own and not the victims.
No one will serve time for this shocking miscarriage of justice.
Perhaps, but unlike Liverpool we don't have a planet-sized chip on our shoulder and wallow in mawkish sentimentality and ugly self-pity, so we'll focus our efforts on change not bile.
You really are a twat when it comes to Liverpool.
At least 41 lives could have been saved that day if the authorities hadn’t screwed up and then covered it up.
Nothing has changed, nobody has served time for the deaths of 97 people.
I'd have stopped at word five.
Hmm. I'll save this one for the next time you complain about anyone getting personal at you.
Thanks for my first ever "flag". A badge of honour knowing it was awarded by you.
Liverpool should be nuked and levelled. Maybe we evacuate a few musicians first.
We can then start again. It hasn't worked.
Why do PB allow you to write such prejudicial nonsense without sanction? You wouldn't stereotype a specific race or creed, so why is it acceptable for the citizens of a city you don't like to be slandered by you?
Anyway off to polish my "flag".
I am describing the culture of the city. And I have said not all are like that, but many are.
I was very offended and insulted by the behaviour of Liverpool fans booing the national anthem the day before yesterday. Hillsborough was and is a scandal, that is for sure, and it needs redressing, but (honestly?) I think even if it were this wouldn't go away. No redress would never be enough and/or that legitimate grievance would be replaced by something else in the victim culture: class, snobbery, Fatch etc. There is something profoundly illogical here. The Royal Family had nothing to do with it - they are just a symbol and following through on that by targetting them has made them look disloyal, angry, aggressive and disrespectful and upset a lot of people.
I am now disinclined to lift a finger to help them - unlike I would for Aberfan and the Post Office scandal - which will no doubt reinforce their grievance. So the most likely outcome is that this goes on and on. I think it's important the facts and behaviour are called out so a change can be made.
Think about it.
The people of Liverpool are utterly distraught that you "are disinclined to lift a finger to help them". How will they cope?
By trying to ban me and call me a bigot, it seems.
Banning you would mean we can't ridicule you. Where's the fun in that?
I don't mind a bit of ridicule. It's probably healthy at some level.
I do mind the T and C word a bit though, and being called a bigot. We're better than that.
This subject seems to make otherwise normal people totally irrational.
You are a bit bigoted, though. You hate people who arent ultra monarchists, poor people, Scousers, Vegans, eco-activists, anyone who votes Green. You'd see me arrested and beaten up by the police or event stewards for protesting animal rights or climate change whereas I'd be ashamed if that happened to you. Maybe more than a bit bigoted?
Err, no.
I think you just take yourself, and what I say on here, a little bit too seriously.
Fella, I'd say most people on here feel the same about you. This is the internet, it doesn't do nuance, tone and context so I'm more than willing to believe that that's not the real you, but your posts say otherwise. You sound pretty angry these days.
I use this site to vent a bit, sometimes without much/any of a filter.
It's not representative of what I'm like in real life, as several pb'ers who've met me will attest to, but we're all very interested in politics and issues on here, and it's a passionate and intense subject, and my wife can only take so much.
We all come on here to let off steam (see the Collected Works of Malcomg Esq) don’t worry about it
Tho you do seem a little more dyspeptic than usual, but you have also explained your new job is stressing you out bigtime
I am trying to do something about that.
My review gave me a high performer, and accelerated track to Partner, but at what cost?
I spend all my time working basically.
That's the trade off with these jobs. Having been at partner level for more than 10 years it doesn't get any easier!
It's a challenging and exciting job, and one that is well rewarded, but if you don't enjoy it, or the cost to your family is too great, get out before you get too used to the money.
I think it's true I have an anger issue. Not really sure what I do about it. I genuinely like most people on here. Sometimes I can't control myself though.
Recognising and acknowledging it is perhaps the most difficult part of doing something about it ? Not something I’ve any personal experience of, but there seem to be a lot of resources online.
One thing I find so tiresome about the 'culture war' is the way it's most energetic participators behave in the style of so many football managers. They only ever see the opposition's fouls but never any infraction by one of their own players. Their side are all infallible* actors.
*I considered using (the never booked for foul play) Gary Lineker as a metaphor though Gary himself has now become problematic of course.
That Prigozhin "mahogany desks" video... Something's got to break in Moscow. Saner elements in NATO governments will be hoping it's not Putin.
Actually, they might be hoping it's Prigozhin *and* Putin. Preferably with Medvedev, Mishustin, Lavrov, Bortnikov and Shoygu thrown in.
Can Debbie Harry revert to her 1977 form too and come and give me a private concert? By "saner" I meant those who don't want nuclear war and who can keep a grasp of what the set of likely possibilities is in Russia, even if it doesn't overlap with what they'd most prefer.
For sure, Prigozhin talking that way can't continue for long for obvious reasons.
No, she can't
The problem is, as I said before the current war started, that Russian Imperialism is coming to a bad end.
Russia has been an Imperial state, conquering and exploiting the surround countries, from the start. The USSR was just a regime change on the way.
The way that the UK and France handled the end of Empire was especially good, but the current Russian policy makes Suez and Algeria look like 8 dimensional chess.
This scandal is like Hillsborough, the authorities protect their own and not the victims.
No one will serve time for this shocking miscarriage of justice.
Perhaps, but unlike Liverpool we don't have a planet-sized chip on our shoulder and wallow in mawkish sentimentality and ugly self-pity, so we'll focus our efforts on change not bile.
You really are a twat when it comes to Liverpool.
At least 41 lives could have been saved that day if the authorities hadn’t screwed up and then covered it up.
Nothing has changed, nobody has served time for the deaths of 97 people.
I'd have stopped at word five.
Hmm. I'll save this one for the next time you complain about anyone getting personal at you.
Thanks for my first ever "flag". A badge of honour knowing it was awarded by you.
Liverpool should be nuked and levelled. Maybe we evacuate a few musicians first.
We can then start again. It hasn't worked.
Why do PB allow you to write such prejudicial nonsense without sanction? You wouldn't stereotype a specific race or creed, so why is it acceptable for the citizens of a city you don't like to be slandered by you?
Anyway off to polish my "flag".
I am describing the culture of the city. And I have said not all are like that, but many are.
I was very offended and insulted by the behaviour of Liverpool fans booing the national anthem the day before yesterday. Hillsborough was and is a scandal, that is for sure, and it needs redressing, but (honestly?) I think even if it were this wouldn't go away. No redress would never be enough and/or that legitimate grievance would be replaced by something else in the victim culture: class, snobbery, Fatch etc. There is something profoundly illogical here. The Royal Family had nothing to do with it - they are just a symbol and following through on that by targetting them has made them look disloyal, angry, aggressive and disrespectful and upset a lot of people.
I am now disinclined to lift a finger to help them - unlike I would for Aberfan and the Post Office scandal - which will no doubt reinforce their grievance. So the most likely outcome is that this goes on and on. I think it's important the facts and behaviour are called out so a change can be made.
Think about it.
The people of Liverpool are utterly distraught that you "are disinclined to lift a finger to help them". How will they cope?
By trying to ban me and call me a bigot, it seems.
Banning you would mean we can't ridicule you. Where's the fun in that?
I don't mind a bit of ridicule. It's probably healthy at some level.
I do mind the T and C word a bit though, and being called a bigot. We're better than that.
This subject seems to make otherwise normal people totally irrational.
You are a bit bigoted, though. You hate people who arent ultra monarchists, poor people, Scousers, Vegans, eco-activists, anyone who votes Green. You'd see me arrested and beaten up by the police or event stewards for protesting animal rights or climate change whereas I'd be ashamed if that happened to you. Maybe more than a bit bigoted?
Err, no.
I think you just take yourself, and what I say on here, a little bit too seriously.
Fella, I'd say most people on here feel the same about you. This is the internet, it doesn't do nuance, tone and context so I'm more than willing to believe that that's not the real you, but your posts say otherwise. You sound pretty angry these days.
I use this site to vent a bit, sometimes without much/any of a filter.
It's not representative of what I'm like in real life, as several pb'ers who've met me will attest to, but we're all very interested in politics and issues on here, and it's a passionate and intense subject, and my wife can only take so much.
We all come on here to let off steam (see the Collected Works of Malcomg Esq) don’t worry about it
Tho you do seem a little more dyspeptic than usual, but you have also explained your new job is stressing you out bigtime
I am trying to do something about that.
My review gave me a high performer, and accelerated track to Partner, but at what cost?
I spend all my time working basically.
That's the trade off with these jobs. Having been at partner level for more than 10 years it doesn't get any easier!
It's a challenging and exciting job, and one that is well rewarded, but if you don't enjoy it, or the cost to your family is too great, get out before you get too used to the money.
I think it's true I have an anger issue. Not really sure what I do about it. I genuinely like most people on here. Sometimes I can't control myself though.
Recognising and acknowledging it is perhaps the most difficult part of doing something about it ? Not something I’ve any personal experience of, but there seem to be a lot of resources online.
The advice upthread to seek help and consider it an investment in your career (and perhaps, more importantly, quality of life) was excellent.
Maybe it goes against the British notion to “just buck up” but it could be the best investment you’ve ever made.
Comments
Anywhere in Greece with a significant airport is gonna be touristy. Just a fact
Crete also fits his requirements. But avoid the REALLY touristy towns on the north coast. Beautiful Venetian old towns but lots of ugly overdevelopment
Head east or south from the airport
Above a certain level, there is no failure. Well failure is redefined as “Nothing will happen to you. At the very, very worst, you will lose your job. With a golden goodbye. Then a new job will be sorted out for you. Golden hello, more money”
When one of the senior people responsible for covering up Rotherham was offered a bigger, better job, running a child care organisation, overseas, someone suggested that providing a reference wasn’t the right thing to do.
This was described as “disgusting” and “vindictive”. The reference was provided.
This is what I call the New Upper 10,000
Just not in that order and you See from the start...
The remarkable thing about the Greek islands is that you can spend the whole day travelling, with a morning flight followed by a transfer to the port followed by an hour or two on the ferry, slog up the hill with your stuff, and yet that same evening sitting in the harbour taverna with your grilled fish and retsina it already feels like you're relaxed and have been there ages.
It's a challenging and exciting job, and one that is well rewarded, but if you don't enjoy it, or the cost to your family is too great, get out before you get too used to the money.
In the wake of the 2008 financial crisis Iceland jailed 25 bankers for up to 6 years. Spain jailed 11 bankers and businessmen and Ireland 7. Germany, Italy and Cyrpus all jailed bankers for their failings.
Why do we not do stuff like this in the UK?
Is not on the top 100 items on the to-do list of anyone sane. It would be such a fucking boring load of arse-ache work, for a start. And for what?
It would make Brexit look like “choosing a different brand of marmalade” in terms of painful choices
Early California... Yeesh!
https://www.amazon.com/Palo-Alto-History-California-Capitalism/dp/031659203X
Just as in Northern Ireland the CIRA has broadened its recruitment of contract murders to include Loyalist terrorists. This kind of rejection of the community barriers, outreach and evident interest in increasing diversity in Republican Terrorist community is a good thing. Right?
So is it hatred? It would be if the motivation is to exclude trans women because you don't like trans women. It's not if the motivation is fairness to cis women competitors. But I want decisions like that to be made with careful study and science not by placards and chanting from either side of the argument.
exquisite - NOT the Hania, western end. Too touristy
This photo was taken in Elounda, eastern Crete. Empty and beautiful and sublime
I am very partial to haggis neeps and tatties as well. @Mexicanpete
There are people here who I disagree with on this but I don't doubt they are coming at it from the right place. They should be the people arguing about this properly.
The issue is that the people actually doing the arguing are the same people who used to tell us that if we allowed gay marriage you'd be marrying a farm animal today, if we allowed homosexuality all our schools would be full of paedophiles and if we allowed women the vote society would collapse.
They should absolutely sue the Met. How can anyone defend this? Would anyone like to try?
For the first 10 years of Horizon’s existence, transaction and account data was stored on terminals in each branch before being uploaded to a central database via ISDN. Our source says this part of the system simply did not work.
“The cash account was a piece of software that sat on the counter NT box, asleep all day,” he said. “At the end of the day, or a particular point in the day, it came to life, and it ran through the message store from the point it last finished. It started at a watermark from yesterday and combed through every transaction in the message store, up until the next watermark.
“A lot of the messages in there were nonsense, because there was no data dictionary, there was no API that enforced message integrity. The contents of the message were freehand, you could write whatever you wanted in the code, and everybody did it differently. And then, when you came back three weeks later, you could write it differently again.”
He gave an example of a message stored previously when a customer bought a stamp. It was feasible that a new message for buying a stamp weeks later could be slightly different.
“When the cash count came along, it found a message it was not expecting and either ignored it, tripped up, or added something it shouldn’t be adding,” he said.
Commander Karen Findlay, who led the Met's policing operation during the Coronation, said on Saturday: "Earlier this week we said our tolerance for any disruption, whether through protest or otherwise, will be low and that we would deal robustly with anyone intent on undermining the celebration."
This is incredibly sinister!
The bar has now been set so low, if I oppose the Government in public it seems like I can now arrested.
They were of the opinion that mandatory assault weapon practise was better for the commonweal.
I can't see why the Met don't say much as the above.
So now simply arrest anyone who plans to conspire to create a public nuisance by not voting Conservative.
Mr. Malmesbury, to be fair, the footballers were bloody useless at Crecy.
https://www.computerweekly.com/news/252526661/Post-Office-warned-of-Horizon-software-induced-tragedy-in-1999
Got it.
Perhaps a reasonable parallel, is back when known disruptive football ‘fans’ were all picked up by police before the game started, and then let go at the end of the match.
Imagine the headlines today, had some idiot ended up shot by police after charging the King’s carriage.
One of the best things about the UK is that we have tolerance of a wide range of views that includes both royalists and republicans. Celebrate that. A significant minority of Liverpool fans were a bit silly in booing the anthem, as are those who take offence.
And, really, do I really want that?
I also don't want people to think me a loser and be bossed around by someone 10-15 years younger, though, which, whilst I recognise is a bit of ego talking, also is because I want autonomy and freedom of action as a Partner and because I believe I am capable of doing it.
I think it's true I have an anger issue. Not really sure what I do about it. I genuinely like most people on here. Sometimes I can't control myself though.
It sometimes leaves me physically ill. It depletes
important resources and fucks the immune system. It’s only do-able or sensible in very short bursts
I think it’s happened to me here, a bit. I did 14 days of REALLY hard work with very little downtime. A barman I know here at the hotel actually got concerned - “Mister Leon, you are always working?!”
It’s left me with a mild bug and two days in bed. Shame. But the work is now done 🤷♂️
If I had to maintain that pace for months I’d crack up
Given the behaviour of Just Stop Oil in recent weeks the Met were perfectly entitled to act preemptively, and I'd have done the same.
My boss is 28. Exactly half my age and she's super in every conceivable way. I love working for her.
Being bossed around by an older male who's an insufferable complete twat and incompetent with it.
Now that would make me feel like a loser.
Or West Dorset - Conservative in every election since it was formed in 1885. 38 straight Tory wins by my count.
This was the inevitable consequence of the XR/JSO approach over the last year or so.
Obviously bonkers, but it seems the developers had no relevant experience or qualifications.
The software in question was shit at this. Phantom transactions all over the place.
This problem has been solved many times. Fucking it up like this means that the design was shit.
*it’s a problem from long before computers.
Football leaves me cold - I could use stronger words - and I find its culture of aggression and violence utterly repellant. I tend to hunker down and go to ground whenever it's on.
I also think there are far too many dogs in the country now, many poorly controlled, and I can't go anywhere for a country walk or on a beach now without being pawed by some random mutt usually accompanied by a "he won't bite!" comment by the owner.
Maybe I should say, "No, but I might."
M: Now look, Mrs Pike, I cannot have you come in here all the time and criticise my running of this platoon.
Mrs P: Then you should run it better.
I don’t identify as male. I am male. That’s a fact, not an opinion.
There’s no mob here. They committed perjury on an epic scale. They should be tried, convicted and sent to prison for that.
Sunak may be able to make that more complex over the next 18 months. Depends on him getting a lot right, and being lucky, though, and a few Starmer missteps.
Trebles all round!
If the system was wrong, then they’d spent millions on a turkey and profits would collapse while they spent million to sort it out….
But the right to protest, subject to the approval of Casino_Royale, is not much of a right. Ditto the Met.
Against that, people trust you and listen to you and you get to work with fantastic people and see and help solve really interesting problems.
To be honest, I would never want to be a long term director with no prospect of partnership. It wouldn’t suit me - for me it would be up or do something different. But that’s a personal thing - others are very happy being a “doer” rather than a rainmaker.
I would address the anger issue head on. Figure out what is causing it and address. May be it’s just stress. But it will take a toll on your family life and your work performance - I was once told that I should “never make an enemy unintentionally”… uncontrolled anger will cause that. It’s worth spending the time seeing a professional, and no shame on doing that. Think of it as an investment in your career - like personal coaching.
It was disgusting, particularly on Coronation Day. Totally disrespectful. I'm still annoyed about it today.
A backlash was to entirely be expected, and they can't complain they've now got one.
The reviewer compared it to an episode of Dad’s Army where Fraser photographs Mainwaring and Pike standing next to the body of a civilian they’ve just hanged.”
Thank you.
It's the one thing I think this Government have done a half-decent job on opposing.
If it was entirely under the government of one party there would be a self-interest in the other party being fully engaged. Otherwise not so much.
It is one of the main advantages of countries where you have accountable government and contested elections over those that don't that no stone is left unturned. Such efforts may be declining.
So how do you feel the best way to include trans people in society is?
But it has these intense periods when I have to go all-in and work every hour I can and sleep patterns get screwed and I can feel it grinding me down inside - it often leaves me poorly - so I can empathise with those who do this over months or years. I couldn’t do it
In the end it would mess with your head so perhaps that is where @CasinoRoyale’s anger emanates
Also I’m in my late 50s and it’s just KNACKERING
There was a torrent of protest from the ravers about their rights being trampled. What say you?
Collective
Upper
New
Ten-thousand
?
I made a deliberate move from the first division to the second division a couple of years ago, and found that it was the right thing to do personally, I enjoyed work for the first time in many years, and just filing set hours, not having to work weekends etc. I got loads of new experience and was quickly advancing and earning more money than I was doing before.
The bit that particular stuck in my mind was the complete absence of any mention of any Iraqis in that vale of tears.
No particular reason to think she had the number grock to see that the figures simply didn't add up. And if the computer was saying something, who was she to question it?
(Very few people do have that sense of numbers, the ability y UNS from 2019 is definitely not going to happen, and the shift is going to be against the Conservatives.
Whatever else you think of him, there's way less need to keep Starmer out than Corbyn.
You have a young child, and maybe the intention of having more, and from my experience it’s hard to maintain the way you worked in your 20s and early 30s into your 40s with the additional responsibility of family.
Allow yourself to accept that for the next several years, you’ll simply have less time for work. And accept that this might also mean a slower rise up the ladder.
For sure, Prigozhin talking that way can't continue for long for obvious reasons.
The name of the game here is pretty much "Eventual Consistency". They probably fucked up the synchronisation mechanisms because of stupid performance requirements, or ignorance.
The synchronisation flaws only showed up under a significant load. The testing didn't generate a significant load and/or a significant number of failure in delivery, failure in resend etc etc.
Very easy to test the Happy Path (everything is happy, sun shining, daisies growing).
I personally enjoy torturing software. One manager asked me why I had created a test which involve a failure to handle a failure of a failure to handle a failure. I pointed out that, while that was a 1 in a billion thing, we were doing billions of transactions per year. So I was testing for a case that would probably occur a slack handful of times a year.
So their software started to fuck up in real life - having passed the tests. But the fuck up wasn't caught. And was probably fundamental to the way transaction were handled. So big, big expense and effort in guiding back to fix the problem.
*I considered using (the never booked for foul play) Gary Lineker as a metaphor though Gary himself has now become problematic of course.
The problem is, as I said before the current war started, that Russian Imperialism is coming to a bad end.
Russia has been an Imperial state, conquering and exploiting the surround countries, from the start. The USSR was just a regime change on the way.
The way that the UK and France handled the end of Empire was especially good, but the current Russian policy makes Suez and Algeria look like 8 dimensional chess.
Maybe it goes against the British notion to “just buck up” but it could be the best investment you’ve ever made.