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The GE1992 polling disaster – the lessons learnt – politicalbetting.com

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  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    Sandpit said:

    SpaceX Starship launch video.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=-1wcilQ58hI

    T-0 = 44:59 on the video.

    Three failed engines as the graphic came up as it vehicle cleared the tower
    Two more failures before Max Q

    I am very disappointed that a whole load of eco-warriors were not glued to it.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,377

    biggles said:

    Wow. This is the future. The stages are fixable. If they have that bit sorted, they have a rocket.

    I only wish Musk didn’t own it so I could be truly happy for them.

    SpaceX wouldn't exist without Musk, and I doubt that anything similar would. The man may be an arse, but he's a genius arse.
    I suspect every other person with such achievements would be as much as arse if not more so.

    Elon's issue is that he made a foolish decision (buying Twitter) and by not having someone filtering his appearances when talking to the general public he's revealed what he is really like.

    Separately if you look in today's news Tesla has really annoyed Renault who are hinting that Telsa's price cuts are destroying their chance of being part of the EV future. I would have thought destroying the ability for Renault (and VW, Peugeot) to sell expensive EVs was the whole point of the price cuts.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,416
    Sandpit said:

    biggles said:

    Wow. This is the future. The stages are fixable. If they have that bit sorted, they have a rocket.

    I only wish Musk didn’t own it so I could be truly happy for them.

    SpaceX wouldn't exist without Musk, and I doubt that anything similar would. The man may be an arse, but he's a genius arse.
    A mad genius. The world is a better place for him, and we need more people with his sprit and attitude.
    Nah, he’s a numpty.

    But if he destroys twitter, he’s a numpty who will have done some really good stuff for the world.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,624
    Sandpit said:

    biggles said:

    Wow. This is the future. The stages are fixable. If they have that bit sorted, they have a rocket.

    I only wish Musk didn’t own it so I could be truly happy for them.

    SpaceX wouldn't exist without Musk, and I doubt that anything similar would. The man may be an arse, but he's a genius arse.
    A mad genius. The world is a better place for him, and we need more people with his sprit and attitude.
    No, we really do not. The shittery about him exceeded any advantage four of five years ago.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,416

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura was asking about strategic outcomes.

    Ukraine will eventually join NATO, Jens Stoltenberg says during his unannounced visit to Kyiv

    "Ukraine's rightful place is in NATO, and over time our support will help to make this possible. We stand by you today & for the long haul," NATO's Chief said.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1649037649582145539

    Not while any corner of it is in dispute and my guess is that that time won't come.
    I suspect we're heading for Russia keeping some of its gains, ROUkraine joining NATO and being armed to the teeth - new Cold War.
    No country can join NATO while it is still in eg territorial dispute because it could theoretically immediately trigger Art.5 saying NATO members must come to its aid to expel the aggressor.
    Ongoing territorial disputes involving NATO mambers are hardly unprecedented. Ireland claimed part of the UK when NATO was first formed.
    More pertinently, West Germany claimed East Germany.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,503

    GIN1138 said:

    What I most remember from 1992 is how the BBC kept insisting Labour was in with a shout for hours on end when it was obvious from midnight that Con was going to be back with a reduced majority lol...

    I went to watch the result with some Labour-supporting friends so I thought I ought to take a bottle of champagne. At 2am I said "shall we drink it, anyway?". Dirty looks all round.
    Curiously I always thought the Tories would win in 1992 despite the polls. On the whole the Tory bid to the country was better than Labour's. The Sun had an influence, as did Sheffield. Kinnock was not very good at getting non Labourites, and in those days leaders could be pretty impressive. Kinnock today would feel like Attlee and Smith returned to help out.

    On polls generally, only one poll can be verified: John Curtice's poll on the day. Our views on all other polling (for betting purposes and all other) is a mixture of guesswork, statistics, experience and intuition. And we shall never find out.

    Polls are several stages from reality. They tell you what willing participants believe they would do today in a hypothetical situation, when the real election is not even in campaign mode; and only this much if they are telling the truth. Many of them would have no idea if they would really even turn up to vote.

  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,055
    Sandpit said:

    biggles said:

    Wow. This is the future. The stages are fixable. If they have that bit sorted, they have a rocket.

    I only wish Musk didn’t own it so I could be truly happy for them.

    SpaceX wouldn't exist without Musk, and I doubt that anything similar would. The man may be an arse, but he's a genius arse.
    A mad genius. The world is a better place for him, and we need more people with his sprit and attitude.
    I have been secretly hoping he will inspire a proper “I want to kill everyone off with my super death ray” Bond villain almost as much as I have been hoping that the one upside of Ukraine is that Bond can kill Russian soldiers next time out.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587

    carnforth said:

    FPT:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Fergus Ewing calls the Greens “wine bar revolutionaries” during FMQs. Ooft!!!

    Genuinely thought wine bars died out about 20 years ago.
    They are still around, there are just far fewer of them now.

    They are today what craft beer Micro bars will be in 20 years time.
    "Craft" = Keg at £8 a pint
    Indeed.
    At the Savoy. Exactly £8 in fact.

    https://www.menumodo.com/app.php/viewer/outlet/4733/11415?lang=en&tags=h

    Maybe the Ritz too.

    Either @SandyRentool has very expensive tastes in bars, or he's talking out of his arse again.
    I went to a bar in Bristol, maybe 10 years ago, where they insisted on serving the keg craft in thirds, halves, or pints, based on the alcoholic strength, rather than the customer choosing. When you multiplied the cost of the strong third by three, it was easily north of £10.
    Did you mean it was more than £10?
    Yes. I don't rember exactly, but say £3.50 for the third. We moved on pretty quickly, as you can imagine.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,377
    Got to say SpaceX's attitude is great and the phrase Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly is going to be used a lot in the future.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,303
    eek said:

    biggles said:

    Wow. This is the future. The stages are fixable. If they have that bit sorted, they have a rocket.

    I only wish Musk didn’t own it so I could be truly happy for them.

    SpaceX wouldn't exist without Musk, and I doubt that anything similar would. The man may be an arse, but he's a genius arse.
    I suspect every other person with such achievements would be as much as arse if not more so.

    Elon's issue is that he made a foolish decision (buying Twitter) and by not having someone filtering his appearances when talking to the general public he's revealed what he is really like.

    Separately if you look in today's news Tesla has really annoyed Renault who are hinting that Telsa's price cuts are destroying their chance of being part of the EV future. I would have thought destroying the ability for Renault (and VW, Peugeot) to sell expensive EVs was the whole point of the price cuts.
    The latter issue is bizarre.

    It is public knowledge that Tesla were making huge profits on each vehicle they sold. Much of that is that they started with a clean slate, so they don't have all the legacy debt etc of the big automotive manufacturers. A small range of models helps as well. All the factories are brand new. etc

    As other automakers have entered the EV market and started to put pressure on Tesla, by building vehicles with similar range and prices (range is a major metric in EVs), what did they expect that would happen? Tesla to go "Oh well, I guess we will do nothing."?

    Cutting their prices, by reducing margin, is what they were going to do. It was utterly obvious....
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,586
    eek said:

    biggles said:

    Wow. This is the future. The stages are fixable. If they have that bit sorted, they have a rocket.

    I only wish Musk didn’t own it so I could be truly happy for them.

    SpaceX wouldn't exist without Musk, and I doubt that anything similar would. The man may be an arse, but he's a genius arse.
    I suspect every other person with such achievements would be as much as arse if not more so.

    Elon's issue is that he made a foolish decision (buying Twitter) and by not having someone filtering his appearances when talking to the general public he's revealed what he is really like.

    Separately if you look in today's news Tesla has really annoyed Renault who are hinting that Telsa's price cuts are destroying their chance of being part of the EV future. I would have thought destroying the ability for Renault (and VW, Peugeot) to sell expensive EVs was the whole point of the price cuts.
    From what we know of the likes of Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg - they are all arseholes. It’s just that Musk says what he’s thinking out loud in public. I’m sure previous generations of entrepreneurs - Branson, Buffett etc, were just as bad.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    edited April 2023
    Deleted
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,303
    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    biggles said:

    Wow. This is the future. The stages are fixable. If they have that bit sorted, they have a rocket.

    I only wish Musk didn’t own it so I could be truly happy for them.

    SpaceX wouldn't exist without Musk, and I doubt that anything similar would. The man may be an arse, but he's a genius arse.
    I suspect every other person with such achievements would be as much as arse if not more so.

    Elon's issue is that he made a foolish decision (buying Twitter) and by not having someone filtering his appearances when talking to the general public he's revealed what he is really like.

    Separately if you look in today's news Tesla has really annoyed Renault who are hinting that Telsa's price cuts are destroying their chance of being part of the EV future. I would have thought destroying the ability for Renault (and VW, Peugeot) to sell expensive EVs was the whole point of the price cuts.
    From what we know of the likes of Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg - they are all arseholes. It’s just that Musk says what he’s thinking out loud in public. I’m sure previous generations of entrepreneurs - Branson, Buffett etc, were just as bad.
    Branson's autobiography is quite illuminating. Larry Ellison is another... interesting individual
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,528
    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura was asking about strategic outcomes.

    Ukraine will eventually join NATO, Jens Stoltenberg says during his unannounced visit to Kyiv

    "Ukraine's rightful place is in NATO, and over time our support will help to make this possible. We stand by you today & for the long haul," NATO's Chief said.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1649037649582145539

    Not while any corner of it is in dispute and my guess is that that time won't come.
    I suspect we're heading for Russia keeping some of its gains, ROUkraine joining NATO and being armed to the teeth - new Cold War.
    No country can join NATO while it is still in eg territorial dispute because it could theoretically immediately trigger Art.5 saying NATO members must come to its aid to expel the aggressor.
    Ongoing territorial disputes involving NATO mambers are hardly unprecedented. Ireland claimed part of the UK when NATO was first formed.
    More pertinently, West Germany claimed East Germany.
    There are no cases of anyone joining during an armed dispute, let alone an ongoing one - West Germany certainly didn't threaten invasion of East Germany to assert their claims. That really would be a declaration of war. That said, even Zelensky hasn't actually asked for instant admission, merely an instant start to the process to seek admission. I can imagine NATO saying yes, let's approve the idea in principle, let's discuss how and when it could happen.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,662
    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura was asking about strategic outcomes.

    Ukraine will eventually join NATO, Jens Stoltenberg says during his unannounced visit to Kyiv

    "Ukraine's rightful place is in NATO, and over time our support will help to make this possible. We stand by you today & for the long haul," NATO's Chief said.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1649037649582145539

    Not while any corner of it is in dispute and my guess is that that time won't come.
    I suspect we're heading for Russia keeping some of its gains, ROUkraine joining NATO and being armed to the teeth - new Cold War.
    No country can join NATO while it is still in eg territorial dispute because it could theoretically immediately trigger Art.5 saying NATO members must come to its aid to expel the aggressor.
    Ongoing territorial disputes involving NATO mambers are hardly unprecedented. Ireland claimed part of the UK when NATO was first formed.
    More pertinently, West Germany claimed East Germany.
    And the rest.

    image
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    biggles said:

    Wow. This is the future. The stages are fixable. If they have that bit sorted, they have a rocket.

    I only wish Musk didn’t own it so I could be truly happy for them.

    I know how you feel. I have a Tesla, and the fact that the company is owned by that complete arse is the only thing I don't like about it.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,303

    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura was asking about strategic outcomes.

    Ukraine will eventually join NATO, Jens Stoltenberg says during his unannounced visit to Kyiv

    "Ukraine's rightful place is in NATO, and over time our support will help to make this possible. We stand by you today & for the long haul," NATO's Chief said.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1649037649582145539

    Not while any corner of it is in dispute and my guess is that that time won't come.
    I suspect we're heading for Russia keeping some of its gains, ROUkraine joining NATO and being armed to the teeth - new Cold War.
    No country can join NATO while it is still in eg territorial dispute because it could theoretically immediately trigger Art.5 saying NATO members must come to its aid to expel the aggressor.
    Ongoing territorial disputes involving NATO mambers are hardly unprecedented. Ireland claimed part of the UK when NATO was first formed.
    More pertinently, West Germany claimed East Germany.
    There are no cases of anyone joining during an armed dispute, let alone an ongoing one - West Germany certainly didn't threaten invasion of East Germany to assert their claims. That really would be a declaration of war. That said, even Zelensky hasn't actually asked for instant admission, merely an instant start to the process to seek admission. I can imagine NATO saying yes, let's approve the idea in principle, let's discuss how and when it could happen.
    IIRC the West German request for reunification was a very polite "Please could we reach a place where we could reunify our country, subject to democratic decision."

    There was no actual war or threat of war involved.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,087
    edited April 2023

    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura was asking about strategic outcomes.

    Ukraine will eventually join NATO, Jens Stoltenberg says during his unannounced visit to Kyiv

    "Ukraine's rightful place is in NATO, and over time our support will help to make this possible. We stand by you today & for the long haul," NATO's Chief said.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1649037649582145539

    Not while any corner of it is in dispute and my guess is that that time won't come.
    I suspect we're heading for Russia keeping some of its gains, ROUkraine joining NATO and being armed to the teeth - new Cold War.
    No country can join NATO while it is still in eg territorial dispute because it could theoretically immediately trigger Art.5 saying NATO members must come to its aid to expel the aggressor.
    Ongoing territorial disputes involving NATO mambers are hardly unprecedented. Ireland claimed part of the UK when NATO was first formed.
    More pertinently, West Germany claimed East Germany.
    There are no cases of anyone joining during an armed dispute, let alone an ongoing one - West Germany certainly didn't threaten invasion of East Germany to assert their claims. That really would be a declaration of war. That said, even Zelensky hasn't actually asked for instant admission, merely an instant start to the process to seek admission. I can imagine NATO saying yes, let's approve the idea in principle, let's discuss how and when it could happen.
    Well clearly they're not getting membership while active conflict is going on.
    But equally, peace is not going to be achieved without absolute credible security guarantees for Ukraine, after the lessons of 2014.

    They'll have to find a way to square that circle eventually.

    Point everyone is making is that NATO has members, and has admitted members, who have territorial disputes.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,872

    eek said:

    biggles said:

    Wow. This is the future. The stages are fixable. If they have that bit sorted, they have a rocket.

    I only wish Musk didn’t own it so I could be truly happy for them.

    SpaceX wouldn't exist without Musk, and I doubt that anything similar would. The man may be an arse, but he's a genius arse.
    I suspect every other person with such achievements would be as much as arse if not more so.

    Elon's issue is that he made a foolish decision (buying Twitter) and by not having someone filtering his appearances when talking to the general public he's revealed what he is really like.

    Separately if you look in today's news Tesla has really annoyed Renault who are hinting that Telsa's price cuts are destroying their chance of being part of the EV future. I would have thought destroying the ability for Renault (and VW, Peugeot) to sell expensive EVs was the whole point of the price cuts.
    The latter issue is bizarre.

    It is public knowledge that Tesla were making huge profits on each vehicle they sold. Much of that is that they started with a clean slate, so they don't have all the legacy debt etc of the big automotive manufacturers. A small range of models helps as well. All the factories are brand new. etc

    As other automakers have entered the EV market and started to put pressure on Tesla, by building vehicles with similar range and prices (range is a major metric in EVs), what did they expect that would happen? Tesla to go "Oh well, I guess we will do nothing."?

    Cutting their prices, by reducing margin, is what they were going to do. It was utterly obvious....
    Tesla however have some issues looming on the horizon due to whistleblowers exposing a typical musk company culture where footage from the cameras is being shared around the office including intimate footage

    https://www.techdirt.com/2023/04/10/teslas-are-a-privacy-nightmare-staff-regularly-shared-camera-recordings-made-memes-jokes-at-customers-expense/
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    edited April 2023
    Nigelb said:

    Dura was asking about strategic outcomes.

    Ukraine will eventually join NATO, Jens Stoltenberg says during his unannounced visit to Kyiv

    "Ukraine's rightful place is in NATO, and over time our support will help to make this possible. We stand by you today & for the long haul," NATO's Chief said.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1649037649582145539

    Was he really asking or just searching for a criticism angle - that their support, decidedly non woolly and backed up with arms, is not good enough because the goal is not clear?

    Only a total victory makes joining NATO likely though, and after some time. Not holding out much hope.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,586
    Nigelb said:

    .

    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura was asking about strategic outcomes.

    Ukraine will eventually join NATO, Jens Stoltenberg says during his unannounced visit to Kyiv

    "Ukraine's rightful place is in NATO, and over time our support will help to make this possible. We stand by you today & for the long haul," NATO's Chief said.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1649037649582145539

    Not while any corner of it is in dispute and my guess is that that time won't come.
    I suspect we're heading for Russia keeping some of its gains, ROUkraine joining NATO and being armed to the teeth - new Cold War.
    No country can join NATO while it is still in eg territorial dispute because it could theoretically immediately trigger Art.5 saying NATO members must come to its aid to expel the aggressor.
    Ongoing territorial disputes involving NATO mambers are hardly unprecedented. Ireland claimed part of the UK when NATO was first formed.
    More pertinently, West Germany claimed East Germany.
    There are no cases of anyone joining during an armed dispute, let alone an ongoing one - West Germany certainly didn't threaten invasion of East Germany to assert their claims. That really would be a declaration of war. That said, even Zelensky hasn't actually asked for instant admission, merely an instant start to the process to seek admission. I can imagine NATO saying yes, let's approve the idea in principle, let's discuss how and when it could happen.
    Well clearly they're not getting membership while active conflict is going on.
    But equally, peace is not going to be achieved without absolute credible security guarantees for Ukraine, after the lessons of 2014.

    They'll have to find a way to square that circle eventually.
    Whenever this war finishes, and wherever the border between Russia, Belarus, and Ukraine is drawn, it’s going to be a very hard border indeed, and defended with all of Europe’s combined militaries.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,624

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    biggles said:

    Wow. This is the future. The stages are fixable. If they have that bit sorted, they have a rocket.

    I only wish Musk didn’t own it so I could be truly happy for them.

    SpaceX wouldn't exist without Musk, and I doubt that anything similar would. The man may be an arse, but he's a genius arse.
    I suspect every other person with such achievements would be as much as arse if not more so.

    Elon's issue is that he made a foolish decision (buying Twitter) and by not having someone filtering his appearances when talking to the general public he's revealed what he is really like.

    Separately if you look in today's news Tesla has really annoyed Renault who are hinting that Telsa's price cuts are destroying their chance of being part of the EV future. I would have thought destroying the ability for Renault (and VW, Peugeot) to sell expensive EVs was the whole point of the price cuts.
    From what we know of the likes of Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg - they are all arseholes. It’s just that Musk says what he’s thinking out loud in public. I’m sure previous generations of entrepreneurs - Branson, Buffett etc, were just as bad.
    Branson's autobiography is quite illuminating. Larry Ellison is another... interesting individual
    I have a lot of time for Bezos, oddly enough. Ellison is an out-and-out ****. Jobs was a **** - anyone who does what he did to his daughter is a ****. Zuckerberg thinks he is more intelligent than he is. Branson started off as a tax fraudster, and went downhill from there. Gates... Gates intrigues me.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,042
    edited April 2023
    On topic.

    Just eyeballing the poll numbers, it's not obvious that the Sheffield rally (on 1st April) had much of an effect either way. If anything, with four small Conservative leads between 27 March and 1 April, then nothing till 8th, the evidence is surely in the other direction.

    Maybe there was a massive movement not picked up in the pools, but I think this might be one of those cases where commentators think something should have happened, regardless of the evidence.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,094
    edited April 2023
    Sandpit said:

    Go for launch!

    Well, it certainly launched, I'll give it that... :D
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,416

    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura was asking about strategic outcomes.

    Ukraine will eventually join NATO, Jens Stoltenberg says during his unannounced visit to Kyiv

    "Ukraine's rightful place is in NATO, and over time our support will help to make this possible. We stand by you today & for the long haul," NATO's Chief said.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1649037649582145539

    Not while any corner of it is in dispute and my guess is that that time won't come.
    I suspect we're heading for Russia keeping some of its gains, ROUkraine joining NATO and being armed to the teeth - new Cold War.
    No country can join NATO while it is still in eg territorial dispute because it could theoretically immediately trigger Art.5 saying NATO members must come to its aid to expel the aggressor.
    Ongoing territorial disputes involving NATO mambers are hardly unprecedented. Ireland claimed part of the UK when NATO was first formed.
    More pertinently, West Germany claimed East Germany.
    There are no cases of anyone joining during an armed dispute, let alone an ongoing one - West Germany certainly didn't threaten invasion of East Germany to assert their claims. That really would be a declaration of war. That said, even Zelensky hasn't actually asked for instant admission, merely an instant start to the process to seek admission. I can imagine NATO saying yes, let's approve the idea in principle, let's discuss how and when it could happen.
    IIRC the West German request for reunification was a very polite "Please could we reach a place where we could reunify our country, subject to democratic decision."

    There was no actual war or threat of war involved.
    The East also claimed all West Germany. They were somewhat more bellicose (think Berlin Blockade, Berlin Wall...)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,586
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura was asking about strategic outcomes.

    Ukraine will eventually join NATO, Jens Stoltenberg says during his unannounced visit to Kyiv

    "Ukraine's rightful place is in NATO, and over time our support will help to make this possible. We stand by you today & for the long haul," NATO's Chief said.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1649037649582145539

    Not while any corner of it is in dispute and my guess is that that time won't come.
    I suspect we're heading for Russia keeping some of its gains, ROUkraine joining NATO and being armed to the teeth - new Cold War.
    No country can join NATO while it is still in eg territorial dispute because it could theoretically immediately trigger Art.5 saying NATO members must come to its aid to expel the aggressor.
    Ongoing territorial disputes involving NATO mambers are hardly unprecedented. Ireland claimed part of the UK when NATO was first formed.
    More pertinently, West Germany claimed East Germany.
    There are no cases of anyone joining during an armed dispute, let alone an ongoing one - West Germany certainly didn't threaten invasion of East Germany to assert their claims. That really would be a declaration of war. That said, even Zelensky hasn't actually asked for instant admission, merely an instant start to the process to seek admission. I can imagine NATO saying yes, let's approve the idea in principle, let's discuss how and when it could happen.
    IIRC the West German request for reunification was a very polite "Please could we reach a place where we could reunify our country, subject to democratic decision."

    There was no actual war or threat of war involved.
    The East also claimed all West Germany. They were somewhat more bellicose (think Berlin Blockade, Berlin Wall...)
    As someone mused on Twitter earlier - when the wall fell, who crossed it and in which direction?

    (Hint: not many people moved East)
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,848

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura was asking about strategic outcomes.

    Ukraine will eventually join NATO, Jens Stoltenberg says during his unannounced visit to Kyiv

    "Ukraine's rightful place is in NATO, and over time our support will help to make this possible. We stand by you today & for the long haul," NATO's Chief said.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1649037649582145539

    Not while any corner of it is in dispute and my guess is that that time won't come.
    I suspect we're heading for Russia keeping some of its gains, ROUkraine joining NATO and being armed to the teeth - new Cold War.
    No country can join NATO while it is still in eg territorial dispute because it could theoretically immediately trigger Art.5 saying NATO members must come to its aid to expel the aggressor.
    Ongoing territorial disputes involving NATO mambers are hardly unprecedented. Ireland claimed part of the UK when NATO was first formed.
    Greece and Turkey had the odd INTRA-NATO spat over the years.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    eek said:

    Got to say SpaceX's attitude is great and the phrase Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly is going to be used a lot in the future.

    The new name for "Cabinet reshuffle"?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,586

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    biggles said:

    Wow. This is the future. The stages are fixable. If they have that bit sorted, they have a rocket.

    I only wish Musk didn’t own it so I could be truly happy for them.

    SpaceX wouldn't exist without Musk, and I doubt that anything similar would. The man may be an arse, but he's a genius arse.
    I suspect every other person with such achievements would be as much as arse if not more so.

    Elon's issue is that he made a foolish decision (buying Twitter) and by not having someone filtering his appearances when talking to the general public he's revealed what he is really like.

    Separately if you look in today's news Tesla has really annoyed Renault who are hinting that Telsa's price cuts are destroying their chance of being part of the EV future. I would have thought destroying the ability for Renault (and VW, Peugeot) to sell expensive EVs was the whole point of the price cuts.
    From what we know of the likes of Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg - they are all arseholes. It’s just that Musk says what he’s thinking out loud in public. I’m sure previous generations of entrepreneurs - Branson, Buffett etc, were just as bad.
    Branson's autobiography is quite illuminating. Larry Ellison is another... interesting individual
    I have a lot of time for Bezos, oddly enough. Ellison is an out-and-out ****. Jobs was a **** - anyone who does what he did to his daughter is a ****. Zuckerberg thinks he is more intelligent than he is. Branson started off as a tax fraudster, and went downhill from there. Gates... Gates intrigues me.
    The real evil of Gates is starting to come out, and the plans he seems to have for the future are properly evil.

    He does do way more than his fair share of charity work though, just like Jimmy Savile.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,867
    GIN1138 said:

    What I most remember from 1992 is how the BBC kept insisting Labour was in with a shout for hours on end when it was obvious from midnight that Con was going to be back with a reduced majority lol...

    Tbf that's usual (Cf. Brexit night, etc). They have an entire night to broadcast and there's much less interest or drama if the result is obvious from the beginning
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,416

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura was asking about strategic outcomes.

    Ukraine will eventually join NATO, Jens Stoltenberg says during his unannounced visit to Kyiv

    "Ukraine's rightful place is in NATO, and over time our support will help to make this possible. We stand by you today & for the long haul," NATO's Chief said.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1649037649582145539

    Not while any corner of it is in dispute and my guess is that that time won't come.
    I suspect we're heading for Russia keeping some of its gains, ROUkraine joining NATO and being armed to the teeth - new Cold War.
    No country can join NATO while it is still in eg territorial dispute because it could theoretically immediately trigger Art.5 saying NATO members must come to its aid to expel the aggressor.
    Ongoing territorial disputes involving NATO mambers are hardly unprecedented. Ireland claimed part of the UK when NATO was first formed.
    Greece and Turkey had the odd INTRA-NATO spat over the years.
    There was an armed invasion of British territory in 1982 over a territorial dispute.

    NATO gave aid, but not armed help.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,559
    It's odd that there haven't been any Scottish polls for about 3 weeks. You'd think Labour would have a good chance of being in the lead.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,303
    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura was asking about strategic outcomes.

    Ukraine will eventually join NATO, Jens Stoltenberg says during his unannounced visit to Kyiv

    "Ukraine's rightful place is in NATO, and over time our support will help to make this possible. We stand by you today & for the long haul," NATO's Chief said.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1649037649582145539

    Not while any corner of it is in dispute and my guess is that that time won't come.
    I suspect we're heading for Russia keeping some of its gains, ROUkraine joining NATO and being armed to the teeth - new Cold War.
    No country can join NATO while it is still in eg territorial dispute because it could theoretically immediately trigger Art.5 saying NATO members must come to its aid to expel the aggressor.
    Ongoing territorial disputes involving NATO mambers are hardly unprecedented. Ireland claimed part of the UK when NATO was first formed.
    Greece and Turkey had the odd INTRA-NATO spat over the years.
    There was an armed invasion of British territory in 1982 over a territorial dispute.

    NATO gave aid, but not armed help.
    Because it was out of area - Article 6 and all that
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,992

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    biggles said:

    Wow. This is the future. The stages are fixable. If they have that bit sorted, they have a rocket.

    I only wish Musk didn’t own it so I could be truly happy for them.

    SpaceX wouldn't exist without Musk, and I doubt that anything similar would. The man may be an arse, but he's a genius arse.
    I suspect every other person with such achievements would be as much as arse if not more so.

    Elon's issue is that he made a foolish decision (buying Twitter) and by not having someone filtering his appearances when talking to the general public he's revealed what he is really like.

    Separately if you look in today's news Tesla has really annoyed Renault who are hinting that Telsa's price cuts are destroying their chance of being part of the EV future. I would have thought destroying the ability for Renault (and VW, Peugeot) to sell expensive EVs was the whole point of the price cuts.
    From what we know of the likes of Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg - they are all arseholes. It’s just that Musk says what he’s thinking out loud in public. I’m sure previous generations of entrepreneurs - Branson, Buffett etc, were just as bad.
    Branson's autobiography is quite illuminating. Larry Ellison is another... interesting individual
    I have a lot of time for Bezos, oddly enough. Ellison is an out-and-out ****. Jobs was a **** - anyone who does what he did to his daughter is a ****. Zuckerberg thinks he is more intelligent than he is. Branson started off as a tax fraudster, and went downhill from there. Gates... Gates intrigues me.
    The film Antitrust feature a 'tech billionaire genius' alleged to have been modeled on Ellison

    Entertaining pap for a wet afternoon perhaps
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,867
    algarkirk said:

    GIN1138 said:

    What I most remember from 1992 is how the BBC kept insisting Labour was in with a shout for hours on end when it was obvious from midnight that Con was going to be back with a reduced majority lol...

    I went to watch the result with some Labour-supporting friends so I thought I ought to take a bottle of champagne. At 2am I said "shall we drink it, anyway?". Dirty looks all round.
    Curiously I always thought the Tories would win in 1992 despite the polls. On the whole the Tory bid to the country was better than Labour's. The Sun had an influence, as did Sheffield. Kinnock was not very good at getting non Labourites, and in those days leaders could be pretty impressive. Kinnock today would feel like Attlee and Smith returned to help out.

    On polls generally, only one poll can be verified: John Curtice's poll on the day. Our views on all other polling (for betting purposes and all other) is a mixture of guesswork, statistics, experience and intuition. And we shall never find out.

    Polls are several stages from reality. They tell you what willing participants believe they would do today in a hypothetical situation, when the real election is not even in campaign mode; and only this much if they are telling the truth. Many of them would have no idea if they would really even turn up to vote.

    I represented my patch in London for 24 years, and each election I'd start the canvassing with the same street, doing every house. The first night I normally had a good indication of how things were going - the beauty of random sampling. After that we canvassed more selectively.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,457
    ...

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    biggles said:

    Wow. This is the future. The stages are fixable. If they have that bit sorted, they have a rocket.

    I only wish Musk didn’t own it so I could be truly happy for them.

    SpaceX wouldn't exist without Musk, and I doubt that anything similar would. The man may be an arse, but he's a genius arse.
    I suspect every other person with such achievements would be as much as arse if not more so.

    Elon's issue is that he made a foolish decision (buying Twitter) and by not having someone filtering his appearances when talking to the general public he's revealed what he is really like.

    Separately if you look in today's news Tesla has really annoyed Renault who are hinting that Telsa's price cuts are destroying their chance of being part of the EV future. I would have thought destroying the ability for Renault (and VW, Peugeot) to sell expensive EVs was the whole point of the price cuts.
    From what we know of the likes of Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg - they are all arseholes. It’s just that Musk says what he’s thinking out loud in public. I’m sure previous generations of entrepreneurs - Branson, Buffett etc, were just as bad.
    Branson's autobiography is quite illuminating. Larry Ellison is another... interesting individual
    I have a lot of time for Bezos, oddly enough. Ellison is an out-and-out ****. Jobs was a **** - anyone who does what he did to his daughter is a ****. Zuckerberg thinks he is more intelligent than he is. Branson started off as a tax fraudster, and went downhill from there. Gates... Gates intrigues me.
    Bill Gates' wife divorced him over his good friendship with Jeffrey Epstein - not a smoke renowned for its lack of fire.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura was asking about strategic outcomes.

    Ukraine will eventually join NATO, Jens Stoltenberg says during his unannounced visit to Kyiv

    "Ukraine's rightful place is in NATO, and over time our support will help to make this possible. We stand by you today & for the long haul," NATO's Chief said.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1649037649582145539

    Not while any corner of it is in dispute and my guess is that that time won't come.
    I suspect we're heading for Russia keeping some of its gains, ROUkraine joining NATO and being armed to the teeth - new Cold War.
    No country can join NATO while it is still in eg territorial dispute because it could theoretically immediately trigger Art.5 saying NATO members must come to its aid to expel the aggressor.
    Ongoing territorial disputes involving NATO mambers are hardly unprecedented. Ireland claimed part of the UK when NATO was first formed.
    Greece and Turkey had the odd INTRA-NATO spat over the years.
    There was an armed invasion of British territory in 1982 over a territorial dispute.

    NATO gave aid, but not armed help.
    Ah, but to which side?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Completely off topic, I have just come out of contract with Virgin Media. I told them that I was going to leave, and they chopped £70 off my monthly bill and threw in Sky Sports UHD.

    Check your contract, if it's up, call them.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,303

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    biggles said:

    Wow. This is the future. The stages are fixable. If they have that bit sorted, they have a rocket.

    I only wish Musk didn’t own it so I could be truly happy for them.

    SpaceX wouldn't exist without Musk, and I doubt that anything similar would. The man may be an arse, but he's a genius arse.
    I suspect every other person with such achievements would be as much as arse if not more so.

    Elon's issue is that he made a foolish decision (buying Twitter) and by not having someone filtering his appearances when talking to the general public he's revealed what he is really like.

    Separately if you look in today's news Tesla has really annoyed Renault who are hinting that Telsa's price cuts are destroying their chance of being part of the EV future. I would have thought destroying the ability for Renault (and VW, Peugeot) to sell expensive EVs was the whole point of the price cuts.
    From what we know of the likes of Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg - they are all arseholes. It’s just that Musk says what he’s thinking out loud in public. I’m sure previous generations of entrepreneurs - Branson, Buffett etc, were just as bad.
    Branson's autobiography is quite illuminating. Larry Ellison is another... interesting individual
    I have a lot of time for Bezos, oddly enough. Ellison is an out-and-out ****. Jobs was a **** - anyone who does what he did to his daughter is a ****. Zuckerberg thinks he is more intelligent than he is. Branson started off as a tax fraudster, and went downhill from there. Gates... Gates intrigues me.
    Bezos sweats his employees and fairly openly destroys the businesses of those who use Amazon's infrastructure and make good money at it.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,373
    Fishing said:

    On topic.

    Just eyeballing the poll numbers, it's not obvious that the Sheffield rally (on 1st April) had much of an effect either way. If anything, with four small Conservative leads between 27 March and 1 April, then nothing till 8th, the evidence is surely in the other direction.

    Maybe there was a massive movement not picked up in the pools, but I think this might be one of those cases where commentators think something should have happened, regardless of the evidence.

    We woz robbed. All those Conservative voting South African voters placed in marginal constituencies...or so legend has it.

    Mind you that could be done again if it is not an urban legend. No ID checks for postal voting of course.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,867

    biggles said:

    Wow. This is the future. The stages are fixable. If they have that bit sorted, they have a rocket.

    I only wish Musk didn’t own it so I could be truly happy for them.

    I know how you feel. I have a Tesla, and the fact that the company is owned by that complete arse is the only thing I don't like about it.
    Tesla seems to be doing very well in France, more so than at home.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,586
    That’s a lovely story at the end. Where there is cricket, there is happiness.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,303
    tlg86 said:

    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura was asking about strategic outcomes.

    Ukraine will eventually join NATO, Jens Stoltenberg says during his unannounced visit to Kyiv

    "Ukraine's rightful place is in NATO, and over time our support will help to make this possible. We stand by you today & for the long haul," NATO's Chief said.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1649037649582145539

    Not while any corner of it is in dispute and my guess is that that time won't come.
    I suspect we're heading for Russia keeping some of its gains, ROUkraine joining NATO and being armed to the teeth - new Cold War.
    No country can join NATO while it is still in eg territorial dispute because it could theoretically immediately trigger Art.5 saying NATO members must come to its aid to expel the aggressor.
    Ongoing territorial disputes involving NATO mambers are hardly unprecedented. Ireland claimed part of the UK when NATO was first formed.
    Greece and Turkey had the odd INTRA-NATO spat over the years.
    There was an armed invasion of British territory in 1982 over a territorial dispute.

    NATO gave aid, but not armed help.
    Ah, but to which side?
    Lots of munitions from various sources.

    The NSA was feeding GCHQ real time intelligence from Argentine that meant the British military was reading Argentine communications before the Argentine Admirals/Generals got to them...
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,749
    Sandpit said:

    biggles said:

    Wow. This is the future. The stages are fixable. If they have that bit sorted, they have a rocket.

    I only wish Musk didn’t own it so I could be truly happy for them.

    SpaceX wouldn't exist without Musk, and I doubt that anything similar would. The man may be an arse, but he's a genius arse.
    A mad genius. The world is a better place for him, and we need more people with his sprit and attitude.
    Someone should send you a dictionary with an entry for "genius" in it.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,848
    Sandpit said:

    That’s a lovely story at the end. Where there is cricket, there is happiness.
    And tedium. Standing around in a field all day a sport doth not make.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,416
    Sandpit said:

    That’s a lovely story at the end. Where there is cricket, there is happiness.
    Not at New Road today there bloody isn't.

    When your No. 9 scores a century by thrashing the ball to all parts, and the top 7 score forty between them, something is seriously wrong somewhere.

    I'm guessing a new ball and a lively pitch that's been sweltering under covers.
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,285
    eek said:

    Got to say SpaceX's attitude is great and the phrase Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly is going to be used a lot in the future.

    “Lithobraking” is another good euphemism for a space flight ending in an unplanned way.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,416

    Sandpit said:

    That’s a lovely story at the end. Where there is cricket, there is happiness.
    And tedium. Standing around in a field all day a sport doth not make.
    So football isn't a sport? Always knew it...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,303

    Sandpit said:

    That’s a lovely story at the end. Where there is cricket, there is happiness.
    And tedium. Standing around in a field all day a sport doth not make.
    Hopefully, some of the members of the Hereford Boat Club are getting the Ukrainians interested in rowing.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727

    Completely off topic, I have just come out of contract with Virgin Media. I told them that I was going to leave, and they chopped £70 off my monthly bill and threw in Sky Sports UHD.

    Check your contract, if it's up, call them.

    £70? :open_mouth: If I had £70 chopped off my monthly broadband/phone/TV bill I'd be getting paid £49/month! Even if you add in the family mobiles I'd be getting a £37/month credit.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,303

    eek said:

    Got to say SpaceX's attitude is great and the phrase Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly is going to be used a lot in the future.

    “Lithobraking” is another good euphemism for a space flight ending in an unplanned way.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvim4rsNHkQ
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    edited April 2023
    Selebian said:

    Completely off topic, I have just come out of contract with Virgin Media. I told them that I was going to leave, and they chopped £70 off my monthly bill and threw in Sky Sports UHD.

    Check your contract, if it's up, call them.

    £70? :open_mouth: If I had £70 chopped off my monthly broadband/phone/TV bill I'd be getting paid £49/month! Even if you add in the family mobiles I'd be getting a £37/month credit.
    It's 600mbps and all the sport and cinema channels in HD, on four boxes, and Netflix HD, plus a free mobile with unlimited usage.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727

    Selebian said:

    Completely off topic, I have just come out of contract with Virgin Media. I told them that I was going to leave, and they chopped £70 off my monthly bill and threw in Sky Sports UHD.

    Check your contract, if it's up, call them.

    £70? :open_mouth: If I had £70 chopped off my monthly broadband/phone/TV bill I'd be getting paid £49/month! Even if you add in the family mobiles I'd be getting a £37/month credit.
    It's 600mbps and all the sport and cinema channels, and Netflix HD, plus a free mobile with unlimited usage.
    Ah... To be fair when you add up my full entertainment package (having small children, which squeezes out the time for sport and cinema channels, largely) it probably costs a lot more than yours :wink:
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,848
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    That’s a lovely story at the end. Where there is cricket, there is happiness.
    And tedium. Standing around in a field all day a sport doth not make.
    So football isn't a sport? Always knew it...
    Only when the Long John Silver impersonators play:

    https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3cd13t
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    Andy_JS said:

    It's odd that there haven't been any Scottish polls for about 3 weeks. You'd think Labour would have a good chance of being in the lead.

    I very much hope so. The rapid unscheduled disassembly of the SNP leadership has been most entertaining, with lots more to come.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,559

    Sandpit said:

    That’s a lovely story at the end. Where there is cricket, there is happiness.
    And tedium. Standing around in a field all day a sport doth not make.
    Best sport ever invented, cricket.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,848
    Andy_JS said:

    Sandpit said:

    That’s a lovely story at the end. Where there is cricket, there is happiness.
    And tedium. Standing around in a field all day a sport doth not make.
    Best sport ever invented, cricket.
    There are lies, damned lies... and ChatGPT!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,416
    Andy_JS said:

    Sandpit said:

    That’s a lovely story at the end. Where there is cricket, there is happiness.
    And tedium. Standing around in a field all day a sport doth not make.
    Best sport ever invented, cricket.
    It's a truly wicket way of passing time.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Sandpit said:

    That’s a lovely story at the end. Where there is cricket, there is happiness.
    And tedium. Standing around in a field all day a sport doth not make.
    Best sport ever invented, cricket.
    It's a truly wicket way of passing time.
    Your comment is a bit wide of the mark.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,848
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    That’s a lovely story at the end. Where there is cricket, there is happiness.
    And tedium. Standing around in a field all day a sport doth not make.
    So football isn't a sport? Always knew it...
    Since when do footy matches last all day long???
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,303

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Sandpit said:

    That’s a lovely story at the end. Where there is cricket, there is happiness.
    And tedium. Standing around in a field all day a sport doth not make.
    Best sport ever invented, cricket.
    It's a truly wicket way of passing time.
    Your comment is a bit wide of the mark.
    Also a bit silly mid off
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,303

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    That’s a lovely story at the end. Where there is cricket, there is happiness.
    And tedium. Standing around in a field all day a sport doth not make.
    So football isn't a sport? Always knew it...
    Since when do footy matches last all day long???
    That's because they can't hold their drink.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,996
    edited April 2023
    Chris said:

    Sandpit said:

    biggles said:

    Wow. This is the future. The stages are fixable. If they have that bit sorted, they have a rocket.

    I only wish Musk didn’t own it so I could be truly happy for them.

    SpaceX wouldn't exist without Musk, and I doubt that anything similar would. The man may be an arse, but he's a genius arse.
    A mad genius. The world is a better place for him, and we need more people with his sprit and attitude.
    Someone should send you a dictionary with an entry for "genius" in it.
    Tesla did two very important things: 1. demonstrate that an electric vehicle could be fast, and cool. 2. demonstrate that an EV could be a large family car with a meaningful range. For those two things we have a lot to be thankful. If Musk had just retired from cars at that point, spent a few years on SpaceX and then retired from that too, and never bought twitter, he’d be revered as a truly great individual.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,416

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    That’s a lovely story at the end. Where there is cricket, there is happiness.
    And tedium. Standing around in a field all day a sport doth not make.
    So football isn't a sport? Always knew it...
    Since when do footy matches last all day long???
    Don't they?

    Maybe they're so boring it just feels like it.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,794
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Football: just a flying visit to wibble about a trio of football bets.

    https://enormo-haddock.blogspot.com/2023/04/epl-ligue-1-serie-20-april-2023.html

    Backed Bournemouth and Monza to win at home, and Clermont to win away. The was also tempting as a lay Nice bet, if you prefer to go safety first.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,559
    Betfair odds

    No overall maj 2.68
    Con maj 7.8
    Lab maj 2.04

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.167249195
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,624

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    biggles said:

    Wow. This is the future. The stages are fixable. If they have that bit sorted, they have a rocket.

    I only wish Musk didn’t own it so I could be truly happy for them.

    SpaceX wouldn't exist without Musk, and I doubt that anything similar would. The man may be an arse, but he's a genius arse.
    I suspect every other person with such achievements would be as much as arse if not more so.

    Elon's issue is that he made a foolish decision (buying Twitter) and by not having someone filtering his appearances when talking to the general public he's revealed what he is really like.

    Separately if you look in today's news Tesla has really annoyed Renault who are hinting that Telsa's price cuts are destroying their chance of being part of the EV future. I would have thought destroying the ability for Renault (and VW, Peugeot) to sell expensive EVs was the whole point of the price cuts.
    From what we know of the likes of Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg - they are all arseholes. It’s just that Musk says what he’s thinking out loud in public. I’m sure previous generations of entrepreneurs - Branson, Buffett etc, were just as bad.
    Branson's autobiography is quite illuminating. Larry Ellison is another... interesting individual
    I have a lot of time for Bezos, oddly enough. Ellison is an out-and-out ****. Jobs was a **** - anyone who does what he did to his daughter is a ****. Zuckerberg thinks he is more intelligent than he is. Branson started off as a tax fraudster, and went downhill from there. Gates... Gates intrigues me.
    Bezos sweats his employees and fairly openly destroys the businesses of those who use Amazon's infrastructure and make good money at it.
    You see... this is the issue. You say that about Bezos, perhaps accurately. But the same can be said about Musk - and perhaps more so, and Musk's tendency to lie, shitpost and damage the world is orders of magnitude greater.

    Yet you appear to give Musk a free pass.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,416
    TBF, there is *a* reason to be cheerful at New Road. Tom Price, a very exciting young cricketer whom everyone at Gloucestershire is desperately hoping won't be thieved by another county or put into England programmes and ruined by overcoaching, has scored a fine 109 off only 98 balls only to be rather unluckily run out at the last gasp. Maiden first class hundred, well played the 22 year old.

    I just wish he hadn't had to come in at 70-7.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Sandpit said:

    That’s a lovely story at the end. Where there is cricket, there is happiness.
    And tedium. Standing around in a field all day a sport doth not make.
    Best sport ever invented, cricket.
    It's a truly wicket way of passing time.
    Your comment is a bit wide of the mark.
    Also a bit silly mid off
    These gags make me crease up.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,867
    Andy_JS said:

    Betfair odds

    No overall maj 2.68
    Con maj 7.8
    Lab maj 2.04

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.167249195

    We need a few Scottish polls to establish whether Lab Maj is value. An SNP wipeout in the central belt could get them more than halfway up the electoral mountain they have to climb
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,624
    The SpaceX launch from ground level:
    https://twitter.com/LabPadre/status/1649053476276797440
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,867
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    That’s a lovely story at the end. Where there is cricket, there is happiness.
    And tedium. Standing around in a field all day a sport doth not make.
    So football isn't a sport? Always knew it...
    Since when do footy matches last all day long???
    Don't they?

    Maybe they're so boring it just feels like it.
    You're mistaking it for cricket.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,195

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    biggles said:

    Wow. This is the future. The stages are fixable. If they have that bit sorted, they have a rocket.

    I only wish Musk didn’t own it so I could be truly happy for them.

    SpaceX wouldn't exist without Musk, and I doubt that anything similar would. The man may be an arse, but he's a genius arse.
    I suspect every other person with such achievements would be as much as arse if not more so.

    Elon's issue is that he made a foolish decision (buying Twitter) and by not having someone filtering his appearances when talking to the general public he's revealed what he is really like.

    Separately if you look in today's news Tesla has really annoyed Renault who are hinting that Telsa's price cuts are destroying their chance of being part of the EV future. I would have thought destroying the ability for Renault (and VW, Peugeot) to sell expensive EVs was the whole point of the price cuts.
    From what we know of the likes of Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg - they are all arseholes. It’s just that Musk says what he’s thinking out loud in public. I’m sure previous generations of entrepreneurs - Branson, Buffett etc, were just as bad.
    Branson's autobiography is quite illuminating. Larry Ellison is another... interesting individual
    I have a lot of time for Bezos, oddly enough. Ellison is an out-and-out ****. Jobs was a **** - anyone who does what he did to his daughter is a ****. Zuckerberg thinks he is more intelligent than he is. Branson started off as a tax fraudster, and went downhill from there. Gates... Gates intrigues me.
    Bezos did the most amazing presentation with proper Gerard K O'Neill visions of space/energy usage and yet he's not even made an orbital rocket ???

    The stuff Elon is trying to do OTOH is really really hard.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,416
    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    That’s a lovely story at the end. Where there is cricket, there is happiness.
    And tedium. Standing around in a field all day a sport doth not make.
    So football isn't a sport? Always knew it...
    Since when do footy matches last all day long???
    Don't they?

    Maybe they're so boring it just feels like it.
    You're mistaking it for cricket.
    Or maybe it's just that I'm confusing the long, tedious, stupidly over analytical pre match build up and post match inquests with the game itself.

    TBF, there are so many clips shown repeatedly it's hard to know what's live and what isn't.

    But whenever there's a big match on my TV seems to show nothing but footy all day.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    Ghedebrav said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Sandpit said:

    That’s a lovely story at the end. Where there is cricket, there is happiness.
    And tedium. Standing around in a field all day a sport doth not make.
    Best sport ever invented, cricket.
    It's a truly wicket way of passing time.
    Your comment is a bit wide of the mark.
    Also a bit silly mid off
    These gags make me crease up.
    I see your point.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    biggles said:

    Wow. This is the future. The stages are fixable. If they have that bit sorted, they have a rocket.

    I only wish Musk didn’t own it so I could be truly happy for them.

    SpaceX wouldn't exist without Musk, and I doubt that anything similar would. The man may be an arse, but he's a genius arse.
    I suspect every other person with such achievements would be as much as arse if not more so.

    Elon's issue is that he made a foolish decision (buying Twitter) and by not having someone filtering his appearances when talking to the general public he's revealed what he is really like.

    Separately if you look in today's news Tesla has really annoyed Renault who are hinting that Telsa's price cuts are destroying their chance of being part of the EV future. I would have thought destroying the ability for Renault (and VW, Peugeot) to sell expensive EVs was the whole point of the price cuts.
    From what we know of the likes of Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg - they are all arseholes. It’s just that Musk says what he’s thinking out loud in public. I’m sure previous generations of entrepreneurs - Branson, Buffett etc, were just as bad.
    Branson's autobiography is quite illuminating. Larry Ellison is another... interesting individual
    I have a lot of time for Bezos, oddly enough. Ellison is an out-and-out ****. Jobs was a **** - anyone who does what he did to his daughter is a ****. Zuckerberg thinks he is more intelligent than he is. Branson started off as a tax fraudster, and went downhill from there. Gates... Gates intrigues me.
    Bezos sweats his employees and fairly openly destroys the businesses of those who use Amazon's infrastructure and make good money at it.
    He also spent a fortune to ride a cock into space.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,586
    Wow. That camera was 1,100’ away, and the shockwave blew out car windows before the whole area was engulfed in the exhaust cloud. That’s a big m…..f….. of a rocket!
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    IanB2 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Betfair odds

    No overall maj 2.68
    Con maj 7.8
    Lab maj 2.04

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.167249195

    We need a few Scottish polls to establish whether Lab Maj is value. An SNP wipeout in the central belt could get them more than halfway up the electoral mountain they have to climb
    Yes, that's my (betting) concern. I'm sitting on a lay of Lab majority at 1.69, can't decide whether to trade it out or sit tight.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,586
    Driver said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Sandpit said:

    That’s a lovely story at the end. Where there is cricket, there is happiness.
    And tedium. Standing around in a field all day a sport doth not make.
    Best sport ever invented, cricket.
    It's a truly wicket way of passing time.
    Your comment is a bit wide of the mark.
    Also a bit silly mid off
    These gags make me crease up.
    I see your point.
    That’s a silly point.
  • Driver said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Sandpit said:

    That’s a lovely story at the end. Where there is cricket, there is happiness.
    And tedium. Standing around in a field all day a sport doth not make.
    Best sport ever invented, cricket.
    It's a truly wicket way of passing time.
    Your comment is a bit wide of the mark.
    Also a bit silly mid off
    These gags make me crease up.
    I see your point.
    One should always duck out of cricket puns before you slip up.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    Driver said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Sandpit said:

    That’s a lovely story at the end. Where there is cricket, there is happiness.
    And tedium. Standing around in a field all day a sport doth not make.
    Best sport ever invented, cricket.
    It's a truly wicket way of passing time.
    Your comment is a bit wide of the mark.
    Also a bit silly mid off
    These gags make me crease up.
    I see your point.
    So you are not trying to cover it up then...
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,624
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    biggles said:

    Wow. This is the future. The stages are fixable. If they have that bit sorted, they have a rocket.

    I only wish Musk didn’t own it so I could be truly happy for them.

    SpaceX wouldn't exist without Musk, and I doubt that anything similar would. The man may be an arse, but he's a genius arse.
    I suspect every other person with such achievements would be as much as arse if not more so.

    Elon's issue is that he made a foolish decision (buying Twitter) and by not having someone filtering his appearances when talking to the general public he's revealed what he is really like.

    Separately if you look in today's news Tesla has really annoyed Renault who are hinting that Telsa's price cuts are destroying their chance of being part of the EV future. I would have thought destroying the ability for Renault (and VW, Peugeot) to sell expensive EVs was the whole point of the price cuts.
    From what we know of the likes of Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg - they are all arseholes. It’s just that Musk says what he’s thinking out loud in public. I’m sure previous generations of entrepreneurs - Branson, Buffett etc, were just as bad.
    Branson's autobiography is quite illuminating. Larry Ellison is another... interesting individual
    I have a lot of time for Bezos, oddly enough. Ellison is an out-and-out ****. Jobs was a **** - anyone who does what he did to his daughter is a ****. Zuckerberg thinks he is more intelligent than he is. Branson started off as a tax fraudster, and went downhill from there. Gates... Gates intrigues me.
    Bezos did the most amazing presentation with proper Gerard K O'Neill visions of space/energy usage and yet he's not even made an orbital rocket ???

    The stuff Elon is trying to do OTOH is really really hard.
    This is exactly what I mean. Because Musk does well at SpaceX, the shit he get a free pass over all the other rubbish stuff he does. Because, you know, rockets are cool.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,848
    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    That’s a lovely story at the end. Where there is cricket, there is happiness.
    And tedium. Standing around in a field all day a sport doth not make.
    So football isn't a sport? Always knew it...
    Since when do footy matches last all day long???
    Don't they?

    Maybe they're so boring it just feels like it.
    You're mistaking it for cricket.
    Or maybe it's just that I'm confusing the long, tedious, stupidly over analytical pre match build up and post match inquests with the game itself.

    TBF, there are so many clips shown repeatedly it's hard to know what's live and what isn't.

    But whenever there's a big match on my TV seems to show nothing but footy all day.
    90 minutes regulation play, then if needed, 30 minutes extra time, then if needed, the old penalty shoot-out.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,848

    Driver said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Sandpit said:

    That’s a lovely story at the end. Where there is cricket, there is happiness.
    And tedium. Standing around in a field all day a sport doth not make.
    Best sport ever invented, cricket.
    It's a truly wicket way of passing time.
    Your comment is a bit wide of the mark.
    Also a bit silly mid off
    These gags make me crease up.
    I see your point.
    One should always duck out of cricket puns before you slip up.
    They think it's all over (or 50 of them).
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,416

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    That’s a lovely story at the end. Where there is cricket, there is happiness.
    And tedium. Standing around in a field all day a sport doth not make.
    So football isn't a sport? Always knew it...
    Since when do footy matches last all day long???
    Don't they?

    Maybe they're so boring it just feels like it.
    You're mistaking it for cricket.
    Or maybe it's just that I'm confusing the long, tedious, stupidly over analytical pre match build up and post match inquests with the game itself.

    TBF, there are so many clips shown repeatedly it's hard to know what's live and what isn't.

    But whenever there's a big match on my TV seems to show nothing but footy all day.
    90 minutes regulation play, then if needed, 30 minutes extra time, then if needed, the old penalty shoot-out.
    So it does last all day?!
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    Driver said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Sandpit said:

    That’s a lovely story at the end. Where there is cricket, there is happiness.
    And tedium. Standing around in a field all day a sport doth not make.
    Best sport ever invented, cricket.
    It's a truly wicket way of passing time.
    Your comment is a bit wide of the mark.
    Also a bit silly mid off
    These gags make me crease up.
    I see your point.
    One should always duck out of cricket puns before you slip up.
    So it seams.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310

    Driver said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Sandpit said:

    That’s a lovely story at the end. Where there is cricket, there is happiness.
    And tedium. Standing around in a field all day a sport doth not make.
    Best sport ever invented, cricket.
    It's a truly wicket way of passing time.
    Your comment is a bit wide of the mark.
    Also a bit silly mid off
    These gags make me crease up.
    I see your point.
    So you are not trying to cover it up then...
    It had him stumped
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,848
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    That’s a lovely story at the end. Where there is cricket, there is happiness.
    And tedium. Standing around in a field all day a sport doth not make.
    So football isn't a sport? Always knew it...
    Since when do footy matches last all day long???
    Don't they?

    Maybe they're so boring it just feels like it.
    You're mistaking it for cricket.
    Or maybe it's just that I'm confusing the long, tedious, stupidly over analytical pre match build up and post match inquests with the game itself.

    TBF, there are so many clips shown repeatedly it's hard to know what's live and what isn't.

    But whenever there's a big match on my TV seems to show nothing but footy all day.
    90 minutes regulation play, then if needed, 30 minutes extra time, then if needed, the old penalty shoot-out.
    So it does last all day?!
    Two hours tops!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,416
    Ghedebrav said:

    Driver said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Sandpit said:

    That’s a lovely story at the end. Where there is cricket, there is happiness.
    And tedium. Standing around in a field all day a sport doth not make.
    Best sport ever invented, cricket.
    It's a truly wicket way of passing time.
    Your comment is a bit wide of the mark.
    Also a bit silly mid off
    These gags make me crease up.
    I see your point.
    One should always duck out of cricket puns before you slip up.
    So it seams.
    Getting into the swing of things?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,416

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    That’s a lovely story at the end. Where there is cricket, there is happiness.
    And tedium. Standing around in a field all day a sport doth not make.
    So football isn't a sport? Always knew it...
    Since when do footy matches last all day long???
    Don't they?

    Maybe they're so boring it just feels like it.
    You're mistaking it for cricket.
    Or maybe it's just that I'm confusing the long, tedious, stupidly over analytical pre match build up and post match inquests with the game itself.

    TBF, there are so many clips shown repeatedly it's hard to know what's live and what isn't.

    But whenever there's a big match on my TV seems to show nothing but footy all day.
    90 minutes regulation play, then if needed, 30 minutes extra time, then if needed, the old penalty shoot-out.
    So it does last all day?!
    Two hours tops!
    Ninety plus thirty plus a penalty shootout is more than two hours.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,559
    Local elections

    Projected national share

    2022: Lab 35%, Con 30%, LD 19%
    2021: Con 36%, Lab 29%, LD 17%
    2019: Con 28%, Lab 28%, LD 19%
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    ydoethur said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Driver said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Sandpit said:

    That’s a lovely story at the end. Where there is cricket, there is happiness.
    And tedium. Standing around in a field all day a sport doth not make.
    Best sport ever invented, cricket.
    It's a truly wicket way of passing time.
    Your comment is a bit wide of the mark.
    Also a bit silly mid off
    These gags make me crease up.
    I see your point.
    One should always duck out of cricket puns before you slip up.
    So it seams.
    Getting into the swing of things?
    The reverse (after 50 overs or so)
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723

    Driver said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Sandpit said:

    That’s a lovely story at the end. Where there is cricket, there is happiness.
    And tedium. Standing around in a field all day a sport doth not make.
    Best sport ever invented, cricket.
    It's a truly wicket way of passing time.
    Your comment is a bit wide of the mark.
    Also a bit silly mid off
    These gags make me crease up.
    I see your point.
    One should always duck out of cricket puns before you slip up.
    They think it's all over (or 50 of them).
    These puns have been going on for....... too long ,stop posting them.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    That’s a lovely story at the end. Where there is cricket, there is happiness.
    And tedium. Standing around in a field all day a sport doth not make.
    So football isn't a sport? Always knew it...
    Since when do footy matches last all day long???
    Don't they?

    Maybe they're so boring it just feels like it.
    You're mistaking it for cricket.
    Or maybe it's just that I'm confusing the long, tedious, stupidly over analytical pre match build up and post match inquests with the game itself.

    TBF, there are so many clips shown repeatedly it's hard to know what's live and what isn't.

    But whenever there's a big match on my TV seems to show nothing but footy all day.
    90 minutes regulation play, then if needed, 30 minutes extra time, then if needed, the old penalty shoot-out.
    So it does last all day?!
    Two hours tops!
    Ninety plus thirty plus a penalty shootout is more than two hours.
    Stoppage time can reach quite ludicrous levels in the VAR age, 10 mins plus. A knockout match going to penalties will run close to three hours, including stoppages and half time.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310

    Driver said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Sandpit said:

    That’s a lovely story at the end. Where there is cricket, there is happiness.
    And tedium. Standing around in a field all day a sport doth not make.
    Best sport ever invented, cricket.
    It's a truly wicket way of passing time.
    Your comment is a bit wide of the mark.
    Also a bit silly mid off
    These gags make me crease up.
    I see your point.
    One should always duck out of cricket puns before you slip up.
    They think it's all over (or 50 of them).
    These puns have been going on for....... too long ,stop posting them.
    How is that?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,667
    Courtesy of Twitter Rishi Sunak Parody

    "I can't decide whether to sack Dominic Raab. Or beg him to stop pushing my head down the toilet"
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,416

    Driver said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Sandpit said:

    That’s a lovely story at the end. Where there is cricket, there is happiness.
    And tedium. Standing around in a field all day a sport doth not make.
    Best sport ever invented, cricket.
    It's a truly wicket way of passing time.
    Your comment is a bit wide of the mark.
    Also a bit silly mid off
    These gags make me crease up.
    I see your point.
    One should always duck out of cricket puns before you slip up.
    They think it's all over (or 50 of them).
    These puns have been going on for....... too long ,stop posting them.
    How is that?
    Well, it was definitely a bowled effort.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,303
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    biggles said:

    Wow. This is the future. The stages are fixable. If they have that bit sorted, they have a rocket.

    I only wish Musk didn’t own it so I could be truly happy for them.

    SpaceX wouldn't exist without Musk, and I doubt that anything similar would. The man may be an arse, but he's a genius arse.
    I suspect every other person with such achievements would be as much as arse if not more so.

    Elon's issue is that he made a foolish decision (buying Twitter) and by not having someone filtering his appearances when talking to the general public he's revealed what he is really like.

    Separately if you look in today's news Tesla has really annoyed Renault who are hinting that Telsa's price cuts are destroying their chance of being part of the EV future. I would have thought destroying the ability for Renault (and VW, Peugeot) to sell expensive EVs was the whole point of the price cuts.
    From what we know of the likes of Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg - they are all arseholes. It’s just that Musk says what he’s thinking out loud in public. I’m sure previous generations of entrepreneurs - Branson, Buffett etc, were just as bad.
    Branson's autobiography is quite illuminating. Larry Ellison is another... interesting individual
    I have a lot of time for Bezos, oddly enough. Ellison is an out-and-out ****. Jobs was a **** - anyone who does what he did to his daughter is a ****. Zuckerberg thinks he is more intelligent than he is. Branson started off as a tax fraudster, and went downhill from there. Gates... Gates intrigues me.
    Bezos did the most amazing presentation with proper Gerard K O'Neill visions of space/energy usage and yet he's not even made an orbital rocket ???

    The stuff Elon is trying to do OTOH is really really hard.
    It's about focus, drive and vision.

    Bezos wanted space stuff. So he sets up a company and provides money for space stuff. Some space stuff happens. There is a huge gap between "I want this to happen" presentations and building a whole industrial empire to make it happen. Bezos put the effort in, to build Amazon. He didn't do this with Blue Origin. He farmed out running that to a succession of leaders who have performed poorly.

    Rather like Paul Allen and Stratolaunch. Though, there, there was more commitment from Allen.

    It requires focus, commitment, business knowledge, technical knowledge and constant pressure from the man in charge, for stuff to actually happen.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,684

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    biggles said:

    Wow. This is the future. The stages are fixable. If they have that bit sorted, they have a rocket.

    I only wish Musk didn’t own it so I could be truly happy for them.

    SpaceX wouldn't exist without Musk, and I doubt that anything similar would. The man may be an arse, but he's a genius arse.
    I suspect every other person with such achievements would be as much as arse if not more so.

    Elon's issue is that he made a foolish decision (buying Twitter) and by not having someone filtering his appearances when talking to the general public he's revealed what he is really like.

    Separately if you look in today's news Tesla has really annoyed Renault who are hinting that Telsa's price cuts are destroying their chance of being part of the EV future. I would have thought destroying the ability for Renault (and VW, Peugeot) to sell expensive EVs was the whole point of the price cuts.
    From what we know of the likes of Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg - they are all arseholes. It’s just that Musk says what he’s thinking out loud in public. I’m sure previous generations of entrepreneurs - Branson, Buffett etc, were just as bad.
    Branson's autobiography is quite illuminating. Larry Ellison is another... interesting individual
    I have a lot of time for Bezos, oddly enough. Ellison is an out-and-out ****. Jobs was a **** - anyone who does what he did to his daughter is a ****. Zuckerberg thinks he is more intelligent than he is. Branson started off as a tax fraudster, and went downhill from there. Gates... Gates intrigues me.
    Bezos did the most amazing presentation with proper Gerard K O'Neill visions of space/energy usage and yet he's not even made an orbital rocket ???

    The stuff Elon is trying to do OTOH is really really hard.
    This is exactly what I mean. Because Musk does well at SpaceX, the shit he get a free pass over all the other rubbish stuff he does. Because, you know, rockets are cool.
    I note Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly is trending on Twitter.



    I think that I prefer earth...
This discussion has been closed.