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The GE1992 polling disaster – the lessons learnt – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,218
edited April 2023 in General
imageThe GE1992 polling disaster – the lessons learnt – politicalbetting.com

The biggest election shock certainly since I started taking an interest in politics was in 1992 when against all the odds John Majors tories managed to hang on to a majority

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Comments

  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,903
    edited April 2023
    I was [edit for not knowing own age] 16 at the time of the 92 election, and I joined Labour immediately after the defeat. I remember how depressing it felt at the time, although I think in the end Labour dodged a bullet by losing. I quite like John Major these days, having met him a few times he's probably the nicest front rank politician I've ever encountered.
    I would imagine if anything polling has got even harder since then. It seems like pollsters have got better at dealing with these difficulties in the meantime, but it wouldn't surprise me to see another big polling miss next year, in one direction or another.
  • What a glorious night.
  • FPT

    My word. This is comedy gold.

    Yousaf, asked how much money the SNP owes Peter Murrell, says he’ll answer after the “transparency review”. unsurpassable.

    https://twitter.com/euanmccolm/status/1649023256135974914?s=46
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,177

    FPT

    My word. This is comedy gold.

    Yousaf, asked how much money the SNP owes Peter Murrell, says he’ll answer after the “transparency review”. unsurpassable.

    https://twitter.com/euanmccolm/status/1649023256135974914?s=46

    "unsurpassable"

    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281

    FPT

    My word. This is comedy gold.

    Yousaf, asked how much money the SNP owes Peter Murrell, says he’ll answer after the “transparency review”. unsurpassable.

    https://twitter.com/euanmccolm/status/1649023256135974914?s=46

    "unsurpassable"

    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
    Quoting, not using.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,780

    FPT

    My word. This is comedy gold.

    Yousaf, asked how much money the SNP owes Peter Murrell, says he’ll answer after the “transparency review”. unsurpassable.

    https://twitter.com/euanmccolm/status/1649023256135974914?s=46

    He won’t pass the transparency review? Oh dear, oh dear…
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,352
    ydoethur said:

    FPT

    My word. This is comedy gold.

    Yousaf, asked how much money the SNP owes Peter Murrell, says he’ll answer after the “transparency review”. unsurpassable.

    https://twitter.com/euanmccolm/status/1649023256135974914?s=46

    He won’t pass the transparency review? Oh dear, oh dear…
    I am sure he will make clear what he means
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,914

    What a glorious night.

    I suspect you may have another one coming along in around 18 months time. Enjoy!

    I much preferred May 1997. The great irony is I felt I could celebrate only when the infamous Johnson sympathetic Brexiteer Gisela Stuart won Edgbaston for Labour.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,870
    FPT:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Fergus Ewing calls the Greens “wine bar revolutionaries” during FMQs. Ooft!!!

    Genuinely thought wine bars died out about 20 years ago.
    They are still around, there are just far fewer of them now.

    They are today what craft beer Micro bars will be in 20 years time.
    "Craft" = Keg at £8 a pint
    Indeed.
    At the Savoy. Exactly £8 in fact.

    https://www.menumodo.com/app.php/viewer/outlet/4733/11415?lang=en&tags=h

    Maybe the Ritz too.

    Either @SandyRentool has very expensive tastes in bars, or he's talking out of his arse again.
    I went to a bar in Bristol, maybe 10 years ago, where they insisted on serving the keg craft in thirds, halves, or pints, based on the alcoholic strength, rather than the customer choosing. When you multiplied the cost of the strong third by three, it was easily north of £10.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,843
    edited April 2023
    They thought en masse... I cannot vote for the Welsh Windbag.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,780

    ydoethur said:

    FPT

    My word. This is comedy gold.

    Yousaf, asked how much money the SNP owes Peter Murrell, says he’ll answer after the “transparency review”. unsurpassable.

    https://twitter.com/euanmccolm/status/1649023256135974914?s=46

    He won’t pass the transparency review? Oh dear, oh dear…
    I am sure he will make clear what he means
    When? When he’s worked out?

    What was it Ridcully said? ‘Transparency can mean two things - that you can see all there is, or you see nothing at all.’
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,352
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    FPT

    My word. This is comedy gold.

    Yousaf, asked how much money the SNP owes Peter Murrell, says he’ll answer after the “transparency review”. unsurpassable.

    https://twitter.com/euanmccolm/status/1649023256135974914?s=46

    He won’t pass the transparency review? Oh dear, oh dear…
    I am sure he will make clear what he means
    When? When he’s worked out?

    What was it Ridcully said? ‘Transparency can mean two things - that you can see all there is, or you see nothing at all.’
    Unlike you @ydoethur to miss a pun.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832

    FPT

    My word. This is comedy gold.

    Yousaf, asked how much money the SNP owes Peter Murrell, says he’ll answer after the “transparency review”. unsurpassable.

    https://twitter.com/euanmccolm/status/1649023256135974914?s=46

    "unsurpassable"

    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
    Could be we are seeing a series of events, all at the very limit of [whatever] and equally so. So each one is, indeed, unsurpassable.
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,030
    edited April 2023
    carnforth said:

    FPT:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Fergus Ewing calls the Greens “wine bar revolutionaries” during FMQs. Ooft!!!

    Genuinely thought wine bars died out about 20 years ago.
    They are still around, there are just far fewer of them now.

    They are today what craft beer Micro bars will be in 20 years time.
    "Craft" = Keg at £8 a pint
    Indeed.
    At the Savoy. Exactly £8 in fact.

    https://www.menumodo.com/app.php/viewer/outlet/4733/11415?lang=en&tags=h

    Maybe the Ritz too.

    Either @SandyRentool has very expensive tastes in bars, or he's talking out of his arse again.
    I went to a bar in Bristol, maybe 10 years ago, where they insisted on serving the keg craft in thirds, halves, or pints, based on the alcoholic strength, rather than the customer choosing. When you multiplied the cost of the strong third by three, it was easily north of £10.
    Last time I visited the Brew York taproom it had a number of barrel-aged Imperial Stouts at £8.25 a half. Of course, at >10% you weren’t supposed to drink it in pints…
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,352

    They thought en masse... I cannot vote for the Welsh Windbag.

    When considering Kinnock, I always thought we could never have someone so completely ludicrous as a main party leader. Then Labour gave us Corbyn and the Tories gave us Johnson.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,388
    edited April 2023
    What I most remember from 1992 is how the BBC kept insisting Labour was in with a shout for hours on end when it was obvious from midnight that Con was going to be back with a reduced majority lol...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,780

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    FPT

    My word. This is comedy gold.

    Yousaf, asked how much money the SNP owes Peter Murrell, says he’ll answer after the “transparency review”. unsurpassable.

    https://twitter.com/euanmccolm/status/1649023256135974914?s=46

    He won’t pass the transparency review? Oh dear, oh dear…
    I am sure he will make clear what he means
    When? When he’s worked out?

    What was it Ridcully said? ‘Transparency can mean two things - that you can see all there is, or you see nothing at all.’
    Unlike you @ydoethur to miss a pun.
    Who says I missed it?
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,352
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    FPT

    My word. This is comedy gold.

    Yousaf, asked how much money the SNP owes Peter Murrell, says he’ll answer after the “transparency review”. unsurpassable.

    https://twitter.com/euanmccolm/status/1649023256135974914?s=46

    He won’t pass the transparency review? Oh dear, oh dear…
    I am sure he will make clear what he means
    When? When he’s worked out?

    What was it Ridcully said? ‘Transparency can mean two things - that you can see all there is, or you see nothing at all.’
    Unlike you @ydoethur to miss a pun.
    Who says I missed it?
    You did see through it then?
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,843
    GIN1138 said:

    What I most remember from 1992 is how the BBC kept insisting Labour was in with a shout for hours on end when it was obvious from Labour midnight that Con was going to be back with a reduced majority lol...

    No champagne bottles being popped in BBC HQ then.....
    .......
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,914

    They thought en masse... I cannot vote for the Welsh Windbag.

    When considering Kinnock, I always thought we could never have someone so completely ludicrous as a main party leader. Then Labour gave us Corbyn and the Tories gave us Johnson.
    Kinnock was a rank amateur in the clown stakes when compared to Corbyn and Johnson. But he was an annoying "Boyo" which was worth at least 7.5% to the Tories.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,843
    In other news, it's scarcely creditable,but I guess it takes all sorts to make a world.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/814e9242-dec9-11ed-a0a8-657f9e54fc6a?shareToken=d6e3ed45001ae57762ad8aafe131cbec
  • ManOfGwentManOfGwent Posts: 108

    They thought en masse... I cannot vote for the Welsh Windbag.

    When considering Kinnock, I always thought we could never have someone so completely ludicrous as a main party leader. Then Labour gave us Corbyn and the Tories gave us Johnson.
    Spare a thought, he was my MP.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,049

    FPT

    My word. This is comedy gold.

    Yousaf, asked how much money the SNP owes Peter Murrell, says he’ll answer after the “transparency review”. unsurpassable.

    https://twitter.com/euanmccolm/status/1649023256135974914?s=46

    "unsurpassable"

    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
    fpt Patton tanks no I hadn't.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,177
    Selebian said:

    FPT

    My word. This is comedy gold.

    Yousaf, asked how much money the SNP owes Peter Murrell, says he’ll answer after the “transparency review”. unsurpassable.

    https://twitter.com/euanmccolm/status/1649023256135974914?s=46

    "unsurpassable"

    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
    Could be we are seeing a series of events, all at the very limit of [whatever] and equally so. So each one is, indeed, unsurpassable.
    You people probably don't believe in Rodents Of Unusual Size.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    Re Inflation the cost of copper cable has started falling quickly
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,325
    GIN1138 said:

    What I most remember from 1992 is how the BBC kept insisting Labour was in with a shout for hours on end when it was obvious from midnight that Con was going to be back with a reduced majority lol...

    I went to watch the result with some Labour-supporting friends so I thought I ought to take a bottle of champagne. At 2am I said "shall we drink it, anyway?". Dirty looks all round.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,914

    GIN1138 said:

    What I most remember from 1992 is how the BBC kept insisting Labour was in with a shout for hours on end when it was obvious from Labour midnight that Con was going to be back with a reduced majority lol...

    No champagne bottles being popped in BBC HQ then.....
    .......
    ...unlike 2019.
  • T-10 minutes and counting...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1wcilQ58hI
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,914

    Re Inflation the cost of copper cable has started falling quickly

    I know a man with a dog down the pub who could do you a deal if you don't mind the Smart Water contamination...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    Dura was asking about strategic outcomes.

    Ukraine will eventually join NATO, Jens Stoltenberg says during his unannounced visit to Kyiv

    "Ukraine's rightful place is in NATO, and over time our support will help to make this possible. We stand by you today & for the long haul," NATO's Chief said.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1649037649582145539
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,504
    edited April 2023

    Re Inflation the cost of copper cable has started falling quickly

    I know a man with a dog down the pub who could do you a deal if you don't mind the Smart Water contamination...
    I cannot express my contempt for these sorts of @sshats:

    "On Saturday 11 February 2023, a Network Rail vehicle being used by a member of the Overhead
    Line Equipment (OLE) team in Doncaster was forced off the road by three other vehicles as it
    entered the motorway. Once stopped, persons wearing balaclavas and carrying crowbars forced the driver from the vehicle before it was driven away from the location. No one was injured during the theft. "

    https://twitter.com/NoelDolphin/status/1648796217449611267/photo/1
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,952

    FPT

    My word. This is comedy gold.

    Yousaf, asked how much money the SNP owes Peter Murrell, says he’ll answer after the “transparency review”. unsurpassable.

    https://twitter.com/euanmccolm/status/1649023256135974914?s=46

    Everything to do with the SNP will have been surpassed if Sturgeon ends up in the dock....
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,198
    GIN1138 said:

    What I most remember from 1992 is how the BBC kept insisting Labour was in with a shout for hours on end when it was obvious from midnight that Con was going to be back with a reduced majority lol...

    No as fun at 2015 though, because of the advent of online bookies. Getting 10-1 against a Tory majority when it was odds, and then getting it again with Brexit, and finally with Trump, represent the biggest wins I have ever made and ever will make in betting.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,504
    This is all getting rather exciting...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,952

    They thought en masse... I cannot vote for the Welsh Windbag.

    When considering Kinnock, I always thought we could never have someone so completely ludicrous as a main party leader. Then Labour gave us Corbyn and the Tories gave us Johnson.
    To keep giving the LibDems the oxygen of publicity, they did have Jo Swinson....
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,049
    edited April 2023
    Nigelb said:

    Dura was asking about strategic outcomes.

    Ukraine will eventually join NATO, Jens Stoltenberg says during his unannounced visit to Kyiv

    "Ukraine's rightful place is in NATO, and over time our support will help to make this possible. We stand by you today & for the long haul," NATO's Chief said.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1649037649582145539

    Not while any corner of it is in dispute and my guess is that that time won't come.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036

    FPT

    My word. This is comedy gold.

    Yousaf, asked how much money the SNP owes Peter Murrell, says he’ll answer after the “transparency review”. unsurpassable.

    https://twitter.com/euanmccolm/status/1649023256135974914?s=46

    Everything to do with the SNP will have been surpassed if Sturgeon ends up in the dock....
    It’s just a Westminster conspiracy. Nothing to see here, nothing at all.
  • This is all getting rather exciting...
    Fingers crossed!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,914
    ...

    Re Inflation the cost of copper cable has started falling quickly

    I know a man with a dog down the pub who could do you a deal if you don't mind the Smart Water contamination...
    I cannot express my contempt for these sorts of @sshats:

    https://twitter.com/NoelDolphin/status/1648796217449611267/photo/1
    Tbf, it is serious, and dangerous, and Plod are very much on top of this.

    I did know some people who were charged by Thames Valley Police during "Operation Symphony". Fair enough, Plod did entrap them and it was thrown out of court after 18 months of heartache, but you have to give the Old Bill marks for effort.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    Under 3 minutes now. This might actually happen!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,303
    ydoethur said:

    FPT

    My word. This is comedy gold.

    Yousaf, asked how much money the SNP owes Peter Murrell, says he’ll answer after the “transparency review”. unsurpassable.

    https://twitter.com/euanmccolm/status/1649023256135974914?s=46

    He won’t pass the transparency review? Oh dear, oh dear…
    They identify as transparent.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,780
    Sandpit said:

    FPT

    My word. This is comedy gold.

    Yousaf, asked how much money the SNP owes Peter Murrell, says he’ll answer after the “transparency review”. unsurpassable.

    https://twitter.com/euanmccolm/status/1649023256135974914?s=46

    Everything to do with the SNP will have been surpassed if Sturgeon ends up in the dock....
    It’s just a Westminster conspiracy. Nothing to see here, nothing at all.
    They are completely transparent about it.

    And will see it through…
  • Stop whatever you are doing and watch this test launch
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,352

    FPT

    My word. This is comedy gold.

    Yousaf, asked how much money the SNP owes Peter Murrell, says he’ll answer after the “transparency review”. unsurpassable.

    https://twitter.com/euanmccolm/status/1649023256135974914?s=46

    Everything to do with the SNP will have been surpassed if Sturgeon ends up in the dock....
    The Surpassable National Party
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    Go for launch!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,914

    Re Inflation the cost of copper cable has started falling quickly

    Can we eat it as a food substitute?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    Oooh. Hold at T-40”
  • eekeek Posts: 28,592
    Sandpit said:

    Go for launch!

    Nope - holding at 40 seconds.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,843
    Space x holding at t-40
  • eekeek Posts: 28,592
    how much did the fuel cost? Did I hear it was $10m..
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,352
    Sandpit said:

    Go for launch!

    I have already had mine thanks
  • Sandpit said:

    Go for launch!

    GO FOR LAUNCH! NOW!!!

    Light it, or they're going to die...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwTqRc4W3lE
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832

    Selebian said:

    FPT

    My word. This is comedy gold.

    Yousaf, asked how much money the SNP owes Peter Murrell, says he’ll answer after the “transparency review”. unsurpassable.

    https://twitter.com/euanmccolm/status/1649023256135974914?s=46

    "unsurpassable"

    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
    Could be we are seeing a series of events, all at the very limit of [whatever] and equally so. So each one is, indeed, unsurpassable.
    You people probably don't believe in Rodents Of Unusual Size.
    Inconceivable!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036

    ydoethur said:

    FPT

    My word. This is comedy gold.

    Yousaf, asked how much money the SNP owes Peter Murrell, says he’ll answer after the “transparency review”. unsurpassable.

    https://twitter.com/euanmccolm/status/1649023256135974914?s=46

    He won’t pass the transparency review? Oh dear, oh dear…
    They identify as transparent.
    And if they self-identify as transparent, then it’s not for others to question their transparency.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,871
    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura was asking about strategic outcomes.

    Ukraine will eventually join NATO, Jens Stoltenberg says during his unannounced visit to Kyiv

    "Ukraine's rightful place is in NATO, and over time our support will help to make this possible. We stand by you today & for the long haul," NATO's Chief said.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1649037649582145539

    Not while any corner of it is in dispute and my guess is that that time won't come.
    I suspect we're heading for Russia keeping some of its gains, ROUkraine joining NATO and being armed to the teeth - new Cold War.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,952
    I may have mentioned this in the past, but I predicted the number of Conservative MPs in 1992 to within 2.

    I had the buffiest buffed nails in Christendom the next day....
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,198
    Should I ever run my own multibillion pound space launch company there will be no count down. There will be a series of checks in the control room over a brew and then one bloke saying to another “happy”? If he says yes, the first bloke will press a button and off we’ll go.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,177
    Selebian said:

    Selebian said:

    FPT

    My word. This is comedy gold.

    Yousaf, asked how much money the SNP owes Peter Murrell, says he’ll answer after the “transparency review”. unsurpassable.

    https://twitter.com/euanmccolm/status/1649023256135974914?s=46

    "unsurpassable"

    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
    Could be we are seeing a series of events, all at the very limit of [whatever] and equally so. So each one is, indeed, unsurpassable.
    You people probably don't believe in Rodents Of Unusual Size.
    Inconceivable!
    Incontheivable!
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,499
    edited April 2023
    Not sure I can hold my breath much longer
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    Here goes, after a short delay. Flight or boom?
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,843

    I may have mentioned this in the past, but I predicted the number of Conservative MPs in 1992 to within 2.

    I had the buffiest buffed nails in Christendom the next day....

    There were a lot of "bastards" elected.....
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    Cleared the tower!
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,843
    Cleared the tower
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,352

    In other news, it's scarcely creditable,but I guess it takes all sorts to make a world.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/814e9242-dec9-11ed-a0a8-657f9e54fc6a?shareToken=d6e3ed45001ae57762ad8aafe131cbec

    Funnily enough I genuinely misread that as ‘Sturgeon’ admits castrating men for ‘eunuch-making’ website
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,843
    It's going....
  • Looked like a few engines didn't start, but still enough to get off the ground
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    That’s not supposed to happen!
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832
    Is it supposed to be going round and round like this?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,504
    edited April 2023
    Well, it's tumbling.

    I also reckon it lost a few first-stage engines.

    And kaboom!
  • Uh-oh...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    Finger on the launch abort
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    BOOM!!!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,952

    In other news, it's scarcely creditable,but I guess it takes all sorts to make a world.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/814e9242-dec9-11ed-a0a8-657f9e54fc6a?shareToken=d6e3ed45001ae57762ad8aafe131cbec

    Funnily enough I genuinely misread that as ‘Sturgeon’ admits castrating men for ‘eunuch-making’ website
    Her reputation proceeds her....
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,955
    Woops
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    Could have been worse.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,049

    Stop whatever you are doing and watch this test launch

    Watched it.
  • The biggest rocket launch in history
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,504

    Looked like a few engines didn't start, but still enough to get off the ground

    From the exhaust, I reckon it lost at least two during flight. Might be wrong though.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,198
    Wow. This is the future. The stages are fixable. If they have that bit sorted, they have a rocket.

    I only wish Musk didn’t own it so I could be truly happy for them.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281

    Looked like a few engines didn't start, but still enough to get off the ground

    From the exhaust, I reckon it lost at least two during flight. Might be wrong though.
    Looked to be a good half dozen at least.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,504
    Nigelb said:

    Looked like a few engines didn't start, but still enough to get off the ground

    From the exhaust, I reckon it lost at least two during flight. Might be wrong though.
    Looked to be a good half dozen at least.
    Yeah, but some of those may not have started up. I think the exhaust stream showed at least two engines going on the way.

    If so, then that's actually a positive, as it means an engine failing hasn't destroyed the stage.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,049
    edited April 2023

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura was asking about strategic outcomes.

    Ukraine will eventually join NATO, Jens Stoltenberg says during his unannounced visit to Kyiv

    "Ukraine's rightful place is in NATO, and over time our support will help to make this possible. We stand by you today & for the long haul," NATO's Chief said.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1649037649582145539

    Not while any corner of it is in dispute and my guess is that that time won't come.
    I suspect we're heading for Russia keeping some of its gains, ROUkraine joining NATO and being armed to the teeth - new Cold War.
    No country can join NATO while it is still in eg territorial dispute because it could theoretically immediately trigger Art.5 saying NATO members must come to its aid to expel the aggressor.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,177
    Nigelb said:

    Looked like a few engines didn't start, but still enough to get off the ground

    From the exhaust, I reckon it lost at least two during flight. Might be wrong though.
    Looked to be a good half dozen at least.
    Four on the outer ring, 1 centre ground engine, I make it...
  • biggles said:

    Wow. This is the future. The stages are fixable. If they have that bit sorted, they have a rocket.

    I only wish Musk didn’t own it so I could be truly happy for them.

    SpaceX wouldn't exist without Musk, and I doubt that anything similar would. The man may be an arse, but he's a genius arse.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036

    Nigelb said:

    Looked like a few engines didn't start, but still enough to get off the ground

    From the exhaust, I reckon it lost at least two during flight. Might be wrong though.
    Looked to be a good half dozen at least.
    Four on the outer ring, 1 centre ground engine, I make it...
    I thought five out as well. I think the trajectory was all good until the stage separation didn’t happen, then the first stage started the flip it was scheduled to do, but the rest of the rocket was still attached.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura was asking about strategic outcomes.

    Ukraine will eventually join NATO, Jens Stoltenberg says during his unannounced visit to Kyiv

    "Ukraine's rightful place is in NATO, and over time our support will help to make this possible. We stand by you today & for the long haul," NATO's Chief said.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1649037649582145539

    Not while any corner of it is in dispute and my guess is that that time won't come.
    It's the only way peace gets agreed.
    No way anyone is going to trust Russia, otherwise.

    How you square that is, of course, not likely to be simple.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417
    I'd count that launch as a partial success.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156
    2015 was a more recent election where the polling was - shall we say - "suboptimal".
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832
    edited April 2023
    biggles said:

    Should I ever run my own multibillion pound space launch company there will be no count down. There will be a series of checks in the control room over a brew and then one bloke saying to another “happy”? If he says yes, the first bloke will press a button and off we’ll go.

    Nah. Have the countdown, but don't link the launch moment to it in any way :wink:

    ETA: For test flights, maybe the crowd should do a count up from moment of launch to see how far they can get before the boom :wink:
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,981
    edited April 2023
    Taz said:
    Speaking with my professional hat on paying Mr Murrell in the current circumstances may trigger all sorts of AML/regulatory issues as well as legal issues.

    Then again not paying him could also cause issues.

    A bit of a pickle for Yousaf and the SNP.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,198

    biggles said:

    Wow. This is the future. The stages are fixable. If they have that bit sorted, they have a rocket.

    I only wish Musk didn’t own it so I could be truly happy for them.

    SpaceX wouldn't exist without Musk, and I doubt that anything similar would. The man may be an arse, but he's a genius arse.
    Agreed. Ironically, in the old days with no Twitter and a PR firm between him and the public, we wouldn’t even know was an arse.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,177
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Looked like a few engines didn't start, but still enough to get off the ground

    From the exhaust, I reckon it lost at least two during flight. Might be wrong though.
    Looked to be a good half dozen at least.
    Four on the outer ring, 1 centre ground engine, I make it...
    I thought five out as well. I think the trajectory was all good until the stage separation didn’t happen, then the first stage started the flip it was scheduled to do, but the rest of the rocket was still attached.
    MECO didn't happen so the conditional logic to enable stage separation was probably not enabled.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036

    biggles said:

    Wow. This is the future. The stages are fixable. If they have that bit sorted, they have a rocket.

    I only wish Musk didn’t own it so I could be truly happy for them.

    SpaceX wouldn't exist without Musk, and I doubt that anything similar would. The man may be an arse, but he's a genius arse.
    A mad genius. The world is a better place for him, and we need more people with his sprit and attitude.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281

    Nigelb said:

    Looked like a few engines didn't start, but still enough to get off the ground

    From the exhaust, I reckon it lost at least two during flight. Might be wrong though.
    Looked to be a good half dozen at least.
    Four on the outer ring, 1 centre ground engine, I make it...
    Any idea what their margin is for number of engines out, and still be able to fly a controlled flight ?
    The asymmetric forces must be pretty large when several go out on one side (as was the case here). That might have messed up the ability to separate the stages. It's a huge object, so the forces going through the stage coupling won't be small.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    edited April 2023
    SpaceX Starship launch video.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=-1wcilQ58hI

    T-0 = 44:59 on the video.

    Three failed engines as the graphic came up as it vehicle cleared the tower
    Two more failures before Max Q

    Gets out of shape starting around T+2:20
    MECO was called at T+2.50, on time, but the engines were clearly still running and the vehicle was well out of shape.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    carnforth said:

    FPT:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Fergus Ewing calls the Greens “wine bar revolutionaries” during FMQs. Ooft!!!

    Genuinely thought wine bars died out about 20 years ago.
    They are still around, there are just far fewer of them now.

    They are today what craft beer Micro bars will be in 20 years time.
    "Craft" = Keg at £8 a pint
    Indeed.
    At the Savoy. Exactly £8 in fact.

    https://www.menumodo.com/app.php/viewer/outlet/4733/11415?lang=en&tags=h

    Maybe the Ritz too.

    Either @SandyRentool has very expensive tastes in bars, or he's talking out of his arse again.
    I went to a bar in Bristol, maybe 10 years ago, where they insisted on serving the keg craft in thirds, halves, or pints, based on the alcoholic strength, rather than the customer choosing. When you multiplied the cost of the strong third by three, it was easily north of £10.
    Did you mean it was more than £10?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,303
    edited April 2023
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura was asking about strategic outcomes.

    Ukraine will eventually join NATO, Jens Stoltenberg says during his unannounced visit to Kyiv

    "Ukraine's rightful place is in NATO, and over time our support will help to make this possible. We stand by you today & for the long haul," NATO's Chief said.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1649037649582145539

    Not while any corner of it is in dispute and my guess is that that time won't come.
    I suspect we're heading for Russia keeping some of its gains, ROUkraine joining NATO and being armed to the teeth - new Cold War.
    No country can join NATO while it is still in eg territorial dispute because it could theoretically immediately trigger Art.5 saying NATO members must come to its aid to expel the aggressor.
    Ongoing territorial disputes involving NATO mambers are hardly unprecedented. Ireland claimed part of the UK when NATO was first formed.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,780
    Pulpstar said:

    I'd count that launch as a partial success.

    That’s what the State Department said about operation Eagle Claw. ‘An incomplete success.’
This discussion has been closed.