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The New York court hearing open thread – politicalbetting.com

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  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930

    As others have said, it doesn't look to me as if the Sean Hogg sentence has much to do with the SNP, Scotland, or the sentencing guidelines. Rather, it's to do with a slightly bonkers judge, and will be changed on appeal.
    Ludicrous sentences (both ways) have been known to happen in England, quite frequently.

    Even the BBC are saying it’s due to the sentencing guidelines.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,342

    pigeon said:

    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    This is a really strange case


    “Sean Hogg raped a 13 year old girl
    Judge Lord Lake saw fit to sentence Sean Hogg to:

    - No prison time
    - 7 weeks community service (unpaid work)
    - 3 years on the sex offender registry

    Rape in Scotland over the next 10 years will skyrocket because of this case”

    https://twitter.com/themaxstoic/status/1643166062475722753?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    People on Twitter are blaming it on Progressive SNP Judicial Reforms. I have NO idea if this is true

    It does seem remarkably lenient

    Unusual sentence. I'll have to read more about it.
    It seems to be a result of sentencing guidelines introduced by the Scottish government for offenders under 25 (the rapist in this case was 17 at the time of the rape, 21 now).

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-65173054
    Rapists under the age of 25 won't get prison sentences?
    This is the key section of the Scottish Sentencing Council guidelines for the sentencing of young people (defined elsewhere in the document as those aged under 25 at the time when the offence was committed):

    20. The full range of sentencing options remains open to the court. However, the nature and duration of a sentence imposed on a young person should be different from that which might be imposed on an older person being sentenced for the same, or a similar, offence.

    21. A custodial sentence should only be imposed on a young person when the court is satisfied that no other sentence is appropriate. If a custodial sentence is imposed on a young person, it should be shorter than that which would have been imposed on an older person for the same, or a similar, offence.


    https://www.scottishsentencingcouncil.org.uk/media/2171/sentencing-young-people-guideline-for-publication.pdf

    Nothing there that constitutes a blanket excuse of young people from prison. The decision to give him a slap on the wrist is ultimately on the judge.
    Agree that this is down to the judge.

    Scotland does not have sentencing guidelines for rape as yet. The only relevant guidelines are those for sentencing young people. AIUI, the SNP pushed for this to be defined as offenders aged below 25 and this was accepted by the Sentencing Council for Scotland, despite the majority of respondents to the consultation being against it. But, as Pigeon says, this is down to the judge. The guidelines say that a custodial sentence should only be imposed if no other sentence is appropriate. My view is that this is a case where the judge should have decided that no other sentence is appropriate and sent him to jail.
    The entire guideline is preposterous Woke gibberish. A young person is someone under 16. 18 at the very most. After that you are deemed an adult and you must take responsibility as an adult for whatever you do. Society in return gives you the right to vote, marry, work, join the army, everything. There is not some weird subsequent period of SEVEN years when you're "still a bit clueless" so "you probably shouldn't ever go to jail"

    Mad
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,087

    Leon said:

    Has any President or ex President eve been arrested b4 now? Was Nixon ?

    Apparently not. Officially pardoned by Ford
    Did General Motors copy?
    No, they wanted to Buick the trend.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,342

    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    This is a really strange case


    “Sean Hogg raped a 13 year old girl
    Judge Lord Lake saw fit to sentence Sean Hogg to:

    - No prison time
    - 7 weeks community service (unpaid work)
    - 3 years on the sex offender registry

    Rape in Scotland over the next 10 years will skyrocket because of this case”

    https://twitter.com/themaxstoic/status/1643166062475722753?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    People on Twitter are blaming it on Progressive SNP Judicial Reforms. I have NO idea if this is true

    It does seem remarkably lenient

    Unusual sentence. I'll have to read more about it.
    It seems to be a result of sentencing guidelines introduced by the Scottish government for offenders under 25 (the rapist in this case was 17 at the time of the rape, 21 now).

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-65173054
    Rapists under the age of 25 won't get prison sentences?
    The presumption seems to be that they won't.

    What makes this even odder, at least judging by the news reports, is that. mitigating factors aside, there were some pretty strong aggravating factors: the victim was just 13. The judge's remark that if he had been over 25 the sentence would have been 4-5 years imprisonment is itself, on the face of it, odd: surely one would expect a much longer sentence?
    Also the report states that he attacked the girl, "on various occasions between March and June 2018." So, repeat offending. It wasn't a one-off aberration.

    Judges will sometimes make mistakes and I hope there is scope for the leniency of the sentence to be appealed, though the report only says that the defendant intends to appeal the sentence.
    I'm pretty sure it is the Crown which is intending to appeal the sentence, on the grounds of undue leniency, not the defendant. What would his appeal hope to achieve ? An even shorter period of litter-picking?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,369
    When people said that they expected AI and automation to end up creating more jobs, I don't think this is what they had in mind...

    "However, although the vehicles will use sensors to travel on pre-selected roads at up to 50mph, they will still need to be operated by two members of staff, twice as many as a normal bus.

    This includes a safety driver in the driver’s seat to monitor the technology, and a bus captain to help passengers with boarding, buying tickets and queries."


    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/apr/04/self-driving-buses-to-serve-route-in-scotland-in-world-first
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,827
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Has any President or ex President eve been arrested b4 now? Was Nixon ?

    Apparently not. Officially pardoned by Ford
    Did General Motors copy?
    No, they wanted to Buick the trend.
    That was worth at least a mini chuckle.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,369
    edited April 2023
    Leon said:

    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    This is a really strange case


    “Sean Hogg raped a 13 year old girl
    Judge Lord Lake saw fit to sentence Sean Hogg to:

    - No prison time
    - 7 weeks community service (unpaid work)
    - 3 years on the sex offender registry

    Rape in Scotland over the next 10 years will skyrocket because of this case”

    https://twitter.com/themaxstoic/status/1643166062475722753?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    People on Twitter are blaming it on Progressive SNP Judicial Reforms. I have NO idea if this is true

    It does seem remarkably lenient

    Unusual sentence. I'll have to read more about it.
    It seems to be a result of sentencing guidelines introduced by the Scottish government for offenders under 25 (the rapist in this case was 17 at the time of the rape, 21 now).

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-65173054
    Rapists under the age of 25 won't get prison sentences?
    The presumption seems to be that they won't.

    What makes this even odder, at least judging by the news reports, is that. mitigating factors aside, there were some pretty strong aggravating factors: the victim was just 13. The judge's remark that if he had been over 25 the sentence would have been 4-5 years imprisonment is itself, on the face of it, odd: surely one would expect a much longer sentence?
    Also the report states that he attacked the girl, "on various occasions between March and June 2018." So, repeat offending. It wasn't a one-off aberration.

    Judges will sometimes make mistakes and I hope there is scope for the leniency of the sentence to be appealed, though the report only says that the defendant intends to appeal the sentence.
    I'm pretty sure it is the Crown which is intending to appeal the sentence, on the grounds of undue leniency, not the defendant. What would his appeal hope to achieve ? An even shorter period of litter-picking?
    From the BBC report:

    "Donald Findlay KC, defending, told the court an appeal was planned."
  • He looks confused/broken/tired doesn't he?


  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,465

    BREAKING:

    Sounds like Rishi Sunak is pressing ahead with plans to change the definition of sex in the Equality Act to biological sex

    Source close to Sunak says he 'remains committed to his campaign pledge' and he will support Badenoch in 'taking that work forward'


    https://twitter.com/steven_swinford/status/1643277177843007490

    Boy, he's good.

    Wish we had 5 more years of him. Shame we won't.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,465
    @TSE sympathies.

    My rear molar has flared up again today. Worst than ever. Whole side of my face is in pain.

    Hurts like it's got a Corbynite manifesto stuck in it. I am so terrified of the dentist I've been putting it off, but my wife has put her foot down.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,369

    He looks confused/broken/tired doesn't he?


    No, he looks remarkably calm and composed. I'd love to say otherwise, but I can't.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    edited April 2023

    He looks confused/broken/tired doesn't he?


    This is different to blustering in front of the TV cameras and rousing the MAGA crowd. That just doesn’t wash when facing the sharp, forensic questioning of the finest legal minds. He’ll get rinsed in court.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587
    @TSE Lidocaine, over the counter:


  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,087
    This is an interesting article on the affair.
    (And a reminder of why Clinto does not belong in the top tier of presidents.)

    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/04/04/trump-indictment-politics-revelation-00090247
    … First is the familiar question of whether partisanship will once again triumph over everything else. But the second test is a new one: whether we can figure out how to hold former presidents accountable for their actions. As many commentators have pointed out, it’s quite normal in the American system for governors and members of Congress to face consequences when they’ve broken the law. Prison time for former governors of Illinois is an especially bipartisan affair.

    But it’s not an accident that the presidency has been the exception to this. Modern presidents are such powerful and ubiquitous figures, so synonymous with national identity, that the idea of holding them to account has only been seen as destabilizing. The Clinton impeachment was widely viewed as a political stunt, and any serious questions were obscured by national satisfaction with the economy and suspicion of the impeachment process. Upon leaving office, Clinton entered into a plea bargain to avoid indictment for lying under oath. Nixon and Watergate were taken much more seriously, but Ford chose to pardon his predecessor upon taking office, declaring that it was more important to move on than to spend more time facing up to what the office of the presidency could be, and, in fact, had become.

    Presidents, unlike members of Congress (and some governors) are also term-limited, which means that they will become ex-presidents in a fairly predictable timeframe. This means there are strong incentives to avoid any post-presidential legal processes that could be seen as politicized (or, indeed, be politicized) turning the legal system into a political tool to punish opponents. In sum, we’ve treated the presidency, including the post-presidency, as if it were too big to fail. The Trump indictment pushes our political system in a new direction, and offers us a chance to rethink power and accountability...
  • Trump's former Director of Communications.

    Surreal to watch. This is the most alone Trump has been in a long time. He’s not flanked by aides, lawyers, body men & so on. He’s face to face with the American legal system that has caught up with him.

    https://twitter.com/Alyssafarah/status/1643308607474114565
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705

    He looks confused/broken/tired doesn't he?


    It looks more like his hair is on trial.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,978

    Turns out I'm a racist.

    Questioning Humza Yousaf’s competence is ‘racist’, says SNP MP

    Karen Adam claims he’d been unfairly criticised because of hi


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/04/04/snp-mp-karen-adam-humza-yousaf-competence-racist/

    Wait until Karen Adams hears what I said about, inter alia, Liz Truss and Sir Gavin Williamson.

    It’s a Brexit thing, no?
    Not everyone who criticises Humza is racist, but hoo boy, all the racists sure are critiquing away.
  • @TSE sympathies.

    My rear molar has flared up again today. Worst than ever. Whole side of my face is in pain.

    Hurts like it's got a Corbynite manifesto stuck in it. I am so terrified of the dentist I've been putting it off, but my wife has put her foot down.

    I've got at least three further appointments booked for this. Going to need either a bridge or an implant tooth.

    So a month of agony.
  • He looks confused/broken/tired doesn't he?


    There’s a difference between blustering in front of the TV cameras and rousing the MAGA crowd. That just doesn’t wash when facing the sharp, forensic questioning of the finest legal minds. He’ll get rinsed in court.
    I think that's a step too far.

    It is entirely possible. But you are forgetting that everyone on the prosecution side will have to be on their best behaviour and more

    I'm sure they have got the finest minds in the case but, as you infer, expectations for Trump are already fairly low.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,342

    BREAKING:

    Sounds like Rishi Sunak is pressing ahead with plans to change the definition of sex in the Equality Act to biological sex

    Source close to Sunak says he 'remains committed to his campaign pledge' and he will support Badenoch in 'taking that work forward'


    https://twitter.com/steven_swinford/status/1643277177843007490

    Boy, he's good.

    Wish we had 5 more years of him. Shame we won't.
    Yes, I'm seriously warming to Sunak. He's competent and he's not scared of the Woke and he's getting things done. He ain't perfect and his party is tired and all that, but as PMs go he could - in different circs - have been one of the much better ones. But he is doomed to a short tenure

    Relatedly, I saw a pic of Starmer the other day. He suddenly looks his age. 60. Quite chubby, and a little weary. Has the rosy flush of a drinker, too - no idea if he is (and I apologise to him if he's tee-total!)

    Sunak looks and seems sharper. More dynamic
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587
    This quite possibly just means being sent a letter of expulsion and appealing. It may be that the actual figures for completed explusions are in line with other countries (i.e vanishingly small).
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,885
    Evening all 😀

    The Ipsos poll, interesting though it is, does its fieldwork over a week up to last Wednesday so it’s quite old.

    If we’re in to selective quoting for all the favourable numbers for Sunak the fact remains only a quarter of those asked liked the Conservative Party while two thirds did not so it’s possible Sunak is now personally held back by the contempt in which the party he leads is now held. Perhaps he should leave and form the Rishi Party - perhaps the theme could be “I’m Rishing on a Star”.

    Looking at the data, the England sample for All respondents has Labour leading the Conservatives 47-34 but among likely voters it’s 51-27 which would be an 18.5% swing from December 2019 so much the same as R&W last night.

    We also have a Redfield & Wilton Scotland poll with a sample of 1000. The Westminster VI shows a 10.5% swing from SNP to Labour and a 9% swing from Conservative to Labour.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    Leon said:

    BREAKING:

    Sounds like Rishi Sunak is pressing ahead with plans to change the definition of sex in the Equality Act to biological sex

    Source close to Sunak says he 'remains committed to his campaign pledge' and he will support Badenoch in 'taking that work forward'


    https://twitter.com/steven_swinford/status/1643277177843007490

    Boy, he's good.

    Wish we had 5 more years of him. Shame we won't.
    Yes, I'm seriously warming to Sunak. He's competent and he's not scared of the Woke and he's getting things done. He ain't perfect and his party is tired and all that, but as PMs go he could - in different circs - have been one of the much better ones. But he is doomed to a short tenure

    Relatedly, I saw a pic of Starmer the other day. He suddenly looks his age. 60. Quite chubby, and a little weary. Has the rosy flush of a drinker, too - no idea if he is (and I apologise to him if he's tee-total!)

    Sunak looks and seems sharper. More dynamic
    Sunak has achieved big wins on Northern Ireland and CPTPP. I hope stays on as Leader of the Opposition.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,978

    He looks confused/broken/tired doesn't he?


    It looks more like his hair is on trial.
    6 months or your money back?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,342

    He looks confused/broken/tired doesn't he?


    No, he looks remarkably calm and composed. I'd love to say otherwise, but I can't.
    Yes, I agree

    Trump looks lucid and determined. Certainly not broken, tired, cowed, scared

    There are multiple rumours on Twitta that he's on Ozempic and has therefore lost weight, making him look a little bit younger - and better
  • Turns out I'm a racist.

    Questioning Humza Yousaf’s competence is ‘racist’, says SNP MP

    Karen Adam claims he’d been unfairly criticised because of hi


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/04/04/snp-mp-karen-adam-humza-yousaf-competence-racist/

    Wait until Karen Adams hears what I said about, inter alia, Liz Truss and Sir Gavin Williamson.

    It’s a Brexit thing, no?
    Not everyone who criticises Humza is racist, but hoo boy, all the racists sure are critiquing away.
    That's not what Karen Adam is saying.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,161

    rcs1000 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Does anyone think we could actually see Trump behind bars?

    Just use one of the AI generators.
    Talking of AI, this is a really good explanation, understandable by a layman, of what ChatGPT actually does, and why it is very good at answering some questions, and very bad at others:

    https://ryxcommar.com/2023/03/28/chatgpt-as-a-query-engine-on-a-giant-corpus-of-text/
    This is the single most important post of the day. Everyone should read it.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    edited April 2023
    Leon said:

    BREAKING:

    Sounds like Rishi Sunak is pressing ahead with plans to change the definition of sex in the Equality Act to biological sex

    Source close to Sunak says he 'remains committed to his campaign pledge' and he will support Badenoch in 'taking that work forward'


    https://twitter.com/steven_swinford/status/1643277177843007490

    Boy, he's good.

    Wish we had 5 more years of him. Shame we won't.
    Yes, I'm seriously warming to Sunak. He's competent and he's not scared of the Woke and he's getting things done. He ain't perfect and his party is tired and all that, but as PMs go he could - in different circs - have been one of the much better ones. But he is doomed to a short tenure

    Relatedly, I saw a pic of Starmer the other day. He suddenly looks his age. 60. Quite chubby, and a little weary. Has the rosy flush of a drinker, too - no idea if he is (and I apologise to him if he's tee-total!)

    Sunak looks and seems sharper. More dynamic
    Not tee-total. We know he likes a beer with his curry.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,669
    edited April 2023

    @TSE sympathies.

    My rear molar has flared up again today. Worst than ever. Whole side of my face is in pain.

    Hurts like it's got a Corbynite manifesto stuck in it. I am so terrified of the dentist I've been putting it off, but my wife has put her foot down.

    Mrs Flatlander rang the dentist and booked me in herself so that I couldn't put it off any longer. Grrrr.

    She was obviously fed up of having to deal with a grumpy person all the time.


    I wonder how much this scene is being repeated countrywide post Covid?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,885
    Leon said:

    BREAKING:

    Sounds like Rishi Sunak is pressing ahead with plans to change the definition of sex in the Equality Act to biological sex

    Source close to Sunak says he 'remains committed to his campaign pledge' and he will support Badenoch in 'taking that work forward'


    https://twitter.com/steven_swinford/status/1643277177843007490

    Boy, he's good.

    Wish we had 5 more years of him. Shame we won't.
    Yes, I'm seriously warming to Sunak. He's competent and he's not scared of the Woke and he's getting things done. He ain't perfect and his party is tired and all that, but as PMs go he could - in different circs - have been one of the much better ones. But he is doomed to a short tenure

    Relatedly, I saw a pic of Starmer the other day. He suddenly looks his age. 60. Quite chubby, and a little weary. Has the rosy flush of a drinker, too - no idea if he is (and I apologise to him if he's tee-total!)

    Sunak looks and seems sharper. More dynamic
    Yes, we all love Rishi (or some do).

    The trouble is the Party he leads which as Ipsos shows today is disliked by about two thirds of the electorate. Perhaps the ideal would be to have Sunak lead Labour instead.

    Like Major before him, Sunak may well be a half decent Prime Minister but will be dragged to defeat by his own Party.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,342

    @TSE sympathies.

    My rear molar has flared up again today. Worst than ever. Whole side of my face is in pain.

    Hurts like it's got a Corbynite manifesto stuck in it. I am so terrified of the dentist I've been putting it off, but my wife has put her foot down.

    I've got at least three further appointments booked for this. Going to need either a bridge or an implant tooth.

    So a month of agony.
    Sympathies. Toothache is a bitch

    Maybe you could abandon your tee-totalism for a month? Strong liquor does help
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,303

    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Meanwhile in England, a conviction for causing a public nuisance - albeit a bloody big nuisance - is enough to be remanded before sentencing, and be told to expect to go down.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11937665/Moment-Just-Stop-Oil-eco-zealot-sings-protest-song-police-hauled-Dartford-Crossing.html

    In general we should jail less. It would be pretty absurd if we get to a point of jailing more but for pettier things.

    Which means it'll probably happen.
    On jailing less. Absolutely.

    The levels of crucifixion and impalement are shockingly low.
    Crucifixion's a doddle.
    https://imgur.com/a/t6l1aa2
  • agingjb2agingjb2 Posts: 114

    @TSE sympathies.

    My rear molar has flared up again today. Worst than ever. Whole side of my face is in pain.

    Hurts like it's got a Corbynite manifesto stuck in it. I am so terrified of the dentist I've been putting it off, but my wife has put her foot down.

    Is it an 8 (wisdom) or 7 or 6? My sympathies, but I've preferred extractions (and gaps) to mucking about, apart from crowns (four so far); but then I'm 84 and have sort of given up on teeth - except from avoiding pain.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    I just puked a little.


    A dessert Pizza, how delightful.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,978

    Turns out I'm a racist.

    Questioning Humza Yousaf’s competence is ‘racist’, says SNP MP

    Karen Adam claims he’d been unfairly criticised because of hi


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/04/04/snp-mp-karen-adam-humza-yousaf-competence-racist/

    Wait until Karen Adams hears what I said about, inter alia, Liz Truss and Sir Gavin Williamson.

    It’s a Brexit thing, no?
    Not everyone who criticises Humza is racist, but hoo boy, all the racists sure are critiquing away.
    That's not what Karen Adam is saying.
    Dunno, I don’t have a sub to the Tele, and would rather sit naked on a pine cone than have such a thing.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,342
    stodge said:

    Leon said:

    BREAKING:

    Sounds like Rishi Sunak is pressing ahead with plans to change the definition of sex in the Equality Act to biological sex

    Source close to Sunak says he 'remains committed to his campaign pledge' and he will support Badenoch in 'taking that work forward'


    https://twitter.com/steven_swinford/status/1643277177843007490

    Boy, he's good.

    Wish we had 5 more years of him. Shame we won't.
    Yes, I'm seriously warming to Sunak. He's competent and he's not scared of the Woke and he's getting things done. He ain't perfect and his party is tired and all that, but as PMs go he could - in different circs - have been one of the much better ones. But he is doomed to a short tenure

    Relatedly, I saw a pic of Starmer the other day. He suddenly looks his age. 60. Quite chubby, and a little weary. Has the rosy flush of a drinker, too - no idea if he is (and I apologise to him if he's tee-total!)

    Sunak looks and seems sharper. More dynamic
    Yes, we all love Rishi (or some do).

    The trouble is the Party he leads which as Ipsos shows today is disliked by about two thirds of the electorate. Perhaps the ideal would be to have Sunak lead Labour instead.

    Like Major before him, Sunak may well be a half decent Prime Minister but will be dragged to defeat by his own Party.
    The bitter irony is that the Tory Party could have avoided Truss altogether, gone for Sunak in the first place, and they might now still be in with a chance of winning in 2024

    Truss must be one of the greatest unforced errors ever made by a British political party. Along with Sturgeon pushing the Gender Act

    And yes, I am aware that at one point I predicted "Truss might surprise on the upside". Not my best moment
  • Leon said:

    @TSE sympathies.

    My rear molar has flared up again today. Worst than ever. Whole side of my face is in pain.

    Hurts like it's got a Corbynite manifesto stuck in it. I am so terrified of the dentist I've been putting it off, but my wife has put her foot down.

    I've got at least three further appointments booked for this. Going to need either a bridge or an implant tooth.

    So a month of agony.
    Sympathies. Toothache is a bitch

    Maybe you could abandon your tee-totalism for a month? Strong liquor does help
    I've got a lot of driving to do this month, so no can do.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,844

    BREAKING:

    Sounds like Rishi Sunak is pressing ahead with plans to change the definition of sex in the Equality Act to biological sex

    Source close to Sunak says he 'remains committed to his campaign pledge' and he will support Badenoch in 'taking that work forward'


    https://twitter.com/steven_swinford/status/1643277177843007490

    Quite frankly the Scottish government should welcome this. The result would be that the safeguards they completely failed to put in their bill would then be in the Equality Act and their bill could then proceed on the basis that all they are doing is giving people a gender recognition certificate but it doesn't give them the rights to go into woman only places or mess about with our prison system.

    This is indeed the correct solution to the problem and once it is in place people can call themselves what they like. There are other issues, such as giving powerful drugs to children that affect their development, but a lot of the heat would go. If Yousless had any brains he would seize this as an excuse not to proceed with his judicial review of the s35 order. There is, however, a fatal flaw in that observation.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    Trump's former Director of Communications.

    Surreal to watch. This is the most alone Trump has been in a long time. He’s not flanked by aides, lawyers, body men & so on. He’s face to face with the American legal system that has caught up with him.

    https://twitter.com/Alyssafarah/status/1643308607474114565

    He seems to go through lawyers at a rate of knots, and several of them in recent years have ended up facing or potentially facing sanctions, so it doesn't seem worth it to me. Presumably since he's not totally stupid he'll stick with some tried and tested big hitters and not select grifters more interested in posturing on Fox News.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,342

    For the bedwetters, from my mate in tech:

    (1) Everybody loves to pretend that language models are GPAI, they're not - they wouldn't know how to fix climate change unless somebody had previously written an article on it and fed it in. We're still a way off that. This is basically an Ask Jeeves that works properly.
    (2) If the "evil tech companies" had any method of wiping out humanity that they could connect an AI to, they would have triggered it accidentally years ago and killed us all already, due to human incompetence.

    I also have "mates in tech" - some of them really quite senior. They divide between those who think ChatGPT is a massively important evolution, which will change society, but we're still ages away from AGI, so there's no need for existential worry - and those who think ChatGPT is a massively important evolution, which will change society, and suddenly we are much closer to AGI than anyone expected, so it IS time to worry
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,058
    BBC News:

    "Trump pleads not guilty to criminal charges
    The former US president has pleaded not guilty after being accused of 34 felony counts, including falsifying business records.
    "
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,662
    Leon said:

    BREAKING:

    Sounds like Rishi Sunak is pressing ahead with plans to change the definition of sex in the Equality Act to biological sex

    Source close to Sunak says he 'remains committed to his campaign pledge' and he will support Badenoch in 'taking that work forward'


    https://twitter.com/steven_swinford/status/1643277177843007490

    Boy, he's good.

    Wish we had 5 more years of him. Shame we won't.
    Yes, I'm seriously warming to Sunak. He's competent and he's not scared of the Woke and he's getting things done. He ain't perfect and his party is tired and all that, but as PMs go he could - in different circs - have been one of the much better ones. But he is doomed to a short tenure

    Relatedly, I saw a pic of Starmer the other day. He suddenly looks his age. 60. Quite chubby, and a little weary. Has the rosy flush of a drinker, too - no idea if he is (and I apologise to him if he's tee-total!)

    Sunak looks and seems sharper. More dynamic
    I noticed the same thing about Starmer. He had an ageless look for quite a long time, but now he's visibly changed. Perhaps the contrast between him and Sunak will be even starker by the time of the election.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,844
    Leon said:

    stodge said:

    Leon said:

    BREAKING:

    Sounds like Rishi Sunak is pressing ahead with plans to change the definition of sex in the Equality Act to biological sex

    Source close to Sunak says he 'remains committed to his campaign pledge' and he will support Badenoch in 'taking that work forward'


    https://twitter.com/steven_swinford/status/1643277177843007490

    Boy, he's good.

    Wish we had 5 more years of him. Shame we won't.
    Yes, I'm seriously warming to Sunak. He's competent and he's not scared of the Woke and he's getting things done. He ain't perfect and his party is tired and all that, but as PMs go he could - in different circs - have been one of the much better ones. But he is doomed to a short tenure

    Relatedly, I saw a pic of Starmer the other day. He suddenly looks his age. 60. Quite chubby, and a little weary. Has the rosy flush of a drinker, too - no idea if he is (and I apologise to him if he's tee-total!)

    Sunak looks and seems sharper. More dynamic
    Yes, we all love Rishi (or some do).

    The trouble is the Party he leads which as Ipsos shows today is disliked by about two thirds of the electorate. Perhaps the ideal would be to have Sunak lead Labour instead.

    Like Major before him, Sunak may well be a half decent Prime Minister but will be dragged to defeat by his own Party.
    The bitter irony is that the Tory Party could have avoided Truss altogether, gone for Sunak in the first place, and they might now still be in with a chance of winning in 2024

    Truss must be one of the greatest unforced errors ever made by a British political party. Along with Sturgeon pushing the Gender Act

    And yes, I am aware that at one point I predicted "Truss might surprise on the upside". Not my best moment
    [Humza Yousless has entered the chat] [As has Jeremy Corbyn}.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    He looks confused/broken/tired doesn't he?


    This is different to blustering in front of the TV cameras and rousing the MAGA crowd. That just doesn’t wash when facing the sharp, forensic questioning of the finest legal minds. He’ll get rinsed in court.
    Famously of course he and his lawyers, his media acolytes and political supporters, are very fond of grandiose claims about election fraud and so on - but when in front of a judge most of the claims from his lawyers have pulled back from the most extreme accusations. Because they'd need evidence.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705

    @TSE sympathies.

    My rear molar has flared up again today. Worst than ever. Whole side of my face is in pain.

    Hurts like it's got a Corbynite manifesto stuck in it. I am so terrified of the dentist I've been putting it off, but my wife has put her foot down.

    Mrs Flatlander rang the dentist and booked me in herself so that I couldn't put it off any longer. Grrrr.

    She was obviously fed up of having to deal with a grumpy person all the time.


    I wonder how much this scene is being repeated countrywide post Covid?
    Getting an appointment? A likely story.
  • agingjb2agingjb2 Posts: 114
    It is one of those things about parties. Why and how do they choose leaders? I am not a Tory or Labour voter, but I do wonder why the Torys never picked R.A.Butler or Ken Clarke, and why Labour never picked Denis Healey.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    CatMan said:

    BBC News:

    "Trump pleads not guilty to criminal charges
    The former US president has pleaded not guilty after being accused of 34 felony counts, including falsifying business records.
    "

    Looking forward to the analysis on the counts - I've only seen a few pieces speculating to date, but there were apparently some interesting issues around statute of limitations, the previous federal investigations and so on, and some tricky specifics that would need to be met.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,342

    Leon said:

    BREAKING:

    Sounds like Rishi Sunak is pressing ahead with plans to change the definition of sex in the Equality Act to biological sex

    Source close to Sunak says he 'remains committed to his campaign pledge' and he will support Badenoch in 'taking that work forward'


    https://twitter.com/steven_swinford/status/1643277177843007490

    Boy, he's good.

    Wish we had 5 more years of him. Shame we won't.
    Yes, I'm seriously warming to Sunak. He's competent and he's not scared of the Woke and he's getting things done. He ain't perfect and his party is tired and all that, but as PMs go he could - in different circs - have been one of the much better ones. But he is doomed to a short tenure

    Relatedly, I saw a pic of Starmer the other day. He suddenly looks his age. 60. Quite chubby, and a little weary. Has the rosy flush of a drinker, too - no idea if he is (and I apologise to him if he's tee-total!)

    Sunak looks and seems sharper. More dynamic
    I noticed the same thing about Starmer. He had an ageless look for quite a long time, but now he's visibly changed. Perhaps the contrast between him and Sunak will be even starker by the time of the election.
    Yeah, for ages he seemed to be "about 50" and quite a well preserved 50, at that. Good hair. Now he looks what he is. 60. And a tired 60 because he has a busy and demanding job. I don't believe he will serve much more than one term

    If there are TV debates there will be quite a contrast twixt Starmer and Sunak
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    DavidL said:

    BREAKING:

    Sounds like Rishi Sunak is pressing ahead with plans to change the definition of sex in the Equality Act to biological sex

    Source close to Sunak says he 'remains committed to his campaign pledge' and he will support Badenoch in 'taking that work forward'


    https://twitter.com/steven_swinford/status/1643277177843007490

    Quite frankly the Scottish government should welcome this. The result would be that the safeguards they completely failed to put in their bill would then be in the Equality Act and their bill could then proceed on the basis that all they are doing is giving people a gender recognition certificate but it doesn't give them the rights to go into woman only places or mess about with our prison system.

    This is indeed the correct solution to the problem and once it is in place people can call themselves what they like. There are other issues, such as giving powerful drugs to children that affect their development, but a lot of the heat would go. If Yousless had any brains he would seize this as an excuse not to proceed with his judicial review of the s35 order. There is, however, a fatal flaw in that observation.
    On the face of it it seems pretty sensible, particular given what would have been the intended definition at the time it was passed. Unsurprisingly it seems to have caused people to explode in apoplexy.
  • DavidL said:

    BREAKING:

    Sounds like Rishi Sunak is pressing ahead with plans to change the definition of sex in the Equality Act to biological sex

    Source close to Sunak says he 'remains committed to his campaign pledge' and he will support Badenoch in 'taking that work forward'


    https://twitter.com/steven_swinford/status/1643277177843007490

    Quite frankly the Scottish government should welcome this. The result would be that the safeguards they completely failed to put in their bill would then be in the Equality Act and their bill could then proceed on the basis that all they are doing is giving people a gender recognition certificate but it doesn't give them the rights to go into woman only places or mess about with our prison system.

    This is indeed the correct solution to the problem and once it is in place people can call themselves what they like. There are other issues, such as giving powerful drugs to children that affect their development, but a lot of the heat would go. If Yousless had any brains he would seize this as an excuse not to proceed with his judicial review of the s35 order. There is, however, a fatal flaw in that observation.
    Should but won't because the Greens will find something objectionable in legally defining biological sex. Because they are absolutely BARKING mad.

    I cannot believe this of all things is what the SG want to go toe to toe with Westminster over. You can see why the tin foil hat brigade think that the SNP has been infiltrated by fifth columnists.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,058
    Isn't Dura Ace's wife a dentist? Maybe she would give a discount if he gave one of us a referral...
  • carnforth said:

    This quite possibly just means being sent a letter of expulsion and appealing. It may be that the actual figures for completed explusions are in line with other countries (i.e vanishingly small).
    Possibly but it still looks very harsh and the absolute numbers are high especially given Sweden's populations

    Anyway, have we commented on this? Far more uplifting

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-11938101/A-horrified-shopper-brands-Sainsburys-big-daddy-steak-sexist-wildly-inappropriate.html
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 1,134
    agingjb2 said:

    =Is it an 8 (wisdom) or 7 or 6? My sympathies, but I've preferred extractions (and gaps) to mucking about, apart from crowns (four so far); but then I'm 84 and have sort of given up on teeth - except from avoiding pain.

    I had my first (wisdom) tooth out last year, and it was surprisingly less bad as an experience than I expected -- certainly less bad than a root canal. The aftermath where you have to be careful about what you eat for ages while it heals is a bit tedious, though.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,342
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    stodge said:

    Leon said:

    BREAKING:

    Sounds like Rishi Sunak is pressing ahead with plans to change the definition of sex in the Equality Act to biological sex

    Source close to Sunak says he 'remains committed to his campaign pledge' and he will support Badenoch in 'taking that work forward'


    https://twitter.com/steven_swinford/status/1643277177843007490

    Boy, he's good.

    Wish we had 5 more years of him. Shame we won't.
    Yes, I'm seriously warming to Sunak. He's competent and he's not scared of the Woke and he's getting things done. He ain't perfect and his party is tired and all that, but as PMs go he could - in different circs - have been one of the much better ones. But he is doomed to a short tenure

    Relatedly, I saw a pic of Starmer the other day. He suddenly looks his age. 60. Quite chubby, and a little weary. Has the rosy flush of a drinker, too - no idea if he is (and I apologise to him if he's tee-total!)

    Sunak looks and seems sharper. More dynamic
    Yes, we all love Rishi (or some do).

    The trouble is the Party he leads which as Ipsos shows today is disliked by about two thirds of the electorate. Perhaps the ideal would be to have Sunak lead Labour instead.

    Like Major before him, Sunak may well be a half decent Prime Minister but will be dragged to defeat by his own Party.
    The bitter irony is that the Tory Party could have avoided Truss altogether, gone for Sunak in the first place, and they might now still be in with a chance of winning in 2024

    Truss must be one of the greatest unforced errors ever made by a British political party. Along with Sturgeon pushing the Gender Act

    And yes, I am aware that at one point I predicted "Truss might surprise on the upside". Not my best moment
    [Humza Yousless has entered the chat] [As has Jeremy Corbyn}.
    Fair point

    I still think Truss is in a league of her own (certainly in terms of her spectacularly short career, and her unique self combustion) but Yousaf and Corbyn are right up there in terms of OMG-wrong-choice. Corbyn arguably guaranteed Brexit, so his elevation also had major long term consequences. Yousaf will just fail, and get the boot, quite quickly, I expect

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,844

    DavidL said:

    BREAKING:

    Sounds like Rishi Sunak is pressing ahead with plans to change the definition of sex in the Equality Act to biological sex

    Source close to Sunak says he 'remains committed to his campaign pledge' and he will support Badenoch in 'taking that work forward'


    https://twitter.com/steven_swinford/status/1643277177843007490

    Quite frankly the Scottish government should welcome this. The result would be that the safeguards they completely failed to put in their bill would then be in the Equality Act and their bill could then proceed on the basis that all they are doing is giving people a gender recognition certificate but it doesn't give them the rights to go into woman only places or mess about with our prison system.

    This is indeed the correct solution to the problem and once it is in place people can call themselves what they like. There are other issues, such as giving powerful drugs to children that affect their development, but a lot of the heat would go. If Yousless had any brains he would seize this as an excuse not to proceed with his judicial review of the s35 order. There is, however, a fatal flaw in that observation.
    Should but won't because the Greens will find something objectionable in legally defining biological sex. Because they are absolutely BARKING mad.

    I cannot believe this of all things is what the SG want to go toe to toe with Westminster over. You can see why the tin foil hat brigade think that the SNP has been infiltrated by fifth columnists.
    The Greens are indeed insane. And obnoxious with it. And yet Nicola still preferred them to half her own party.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,535
    agingjb2 said:

    It is one of those things about parties. Why and how do they choose leaders? I am not a Tory or Labour voter, but I do wonder why the Torys never picked R.A.Butler or Ken Clarke, and why Labour never picked Denis Healey.

    Ken Clarke was all about the EU. Nothing more. A shame as otherwise he would have been a good Tory leader.
  • AramintaMoonbeamQCAramintaMoonbeamQC Posts: 3,855
    edited April 2023
    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    stodge said:

    Leon said:

    BREAKING:

    Sounds like Rishi Sunak is pressing ahead with plans to change the definition of sex in the Equality Act to biological sex

    Source close to Sunak says he 'remains committed to his campaign pledge' and he will support Badenoch in 'taking that work forward'


    https://twitter.com/steven_swinford/status/1643277177843007490

    Boy, he's good.

    Wish we had 5 more years of him. Shame we won't.
    Yes, I'm seriously warming to Sunak. He's competent and he's not scared of the Woke and he's getting things done. He ain't perfect and his party is tired and all that, but as PMs go he could - in different circs - have been one of the much better ones. But he is doomed to a short tenure

    Relatedly, I saw a pic of Starmer the other day. He suddenly looks his age. 60. Quite chubby, and a little weary. Has the rosy flush of a drinker, too - no idea if he is (and I apologise to him if he's tee-total!)

    Sunak looks and seems sharper. More dynamic
    Yes, we all love Rishi (or some do).

    The trouble is the Party he leads which as Ipsos shows today is disliked by about two thirds of the electorate. Perhaps the ideal would be to have Sunak lead Labour instead.

    Like Major before him, Sunak may well be a half decent Prime Minister but will be dragged to defeat by his own Party.
    The bitter irony is that the Tory Party could have avoided Truss altogether, gone for Sunak in the first place, and they might now still be in with a chance of winning in 2024

    Truss must be one of the greatest unforced errors ever made by a British political party. Along with Sturgeon pushing the Gender Act

    And yes, I am aware that at one point I predicted "Truss might surprise on the upside". Not my best moment
    [Humza Yousless has entered the chat] [As has Jeremy Corbyn}.
    Fair point

    I still think Truss is in a league of her own (certainly in terms of her spectacularly short career, and her unique self combustion) but Yousaf and Corbyn are right up there in terms of OMG-wrong-choice. Corbyn arguably guaranteed Brexit, so his elevation also had major long term consequences. Yousaf will just fail, and get the boot, quite quickly, I expect

    It won't be a Brian Clough at Leeds type tenure like Truss, but they will get squeezed badly at the GE (no chance of gains in the Borders/Highlands, losses to Lab across the central belt, almost certain loss of e.g. the Western Isles due to ferries debacle). Then the MSPs will start to get nervous ahead of Holyrood 2026, and he'll be out, IMO.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,087
    One of the charges is conspiracy.
    This will be interesting.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,196
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    BREAKING:

    Sounds like Rishi Sunak is pressing ahead with plans to change the definition of sex in the Equality Act to biological sex

    Source close to Sunak says he 'remains committed to his campaign pledge' and he will support Badenoch in 'taking that work forward'


    https://twitter.com/steven_swinford/status/1643277177843007490

    Boy, he's good.

    Wish we had 5 more years of him. Shame we won't.
    Yes, I'm seriously warming to Sunak. He's competent and he's not scared of the Woke and he's getting things done. He ain't perfect and his party is tired and all that, but as PMs go he could - in different circs - have been one of the much better ones. But he is doomed to a short tenure

    Relatedly, I saw a pic of Starmer the other day. He suddenly looks his age. 60. Quite chubby, and a little weary. Has the rosy flush of a drinker, too - no idea if he is (and I apologise to him if he's tee-total!)

    Sunak looks and seems sharper. More dynamic
    I noticed the same thing about Starmer. He had an ageless look for quite a long time, but now he's visibly changed. Perhaps the contrast between him and Sunak will be even starker by the time of the election.
    Yeah, for ages he seemed to be "about 50" and quite a well preserved 50, at that. Good hair. Now he looks what he is. 60. And a tired 60 because he has a busy and demanding job. I don't believe he will serve much more than one term

    If there are TV debates there will be quite a contrast twixt Starmer and Sunak
    It'll look like an eager 5th former debating his geography teacher.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,996
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    BREAKING:

    Sounds like Rishi Sunak is pressing ahead with plans to change the definition of sex in the Equality Act to biological sex

    Source close to Sunak says he 'remains committed to his campaign pledge' and he will support Badenoch in 'taking that work forward'


    https://twitter.com/steven_swinford/status/1643277177843007490

    Boy, he's good.

    Wish we had 5 more years of him. Shame we won't.
    Yes, I'm seriously warming to Sunak. He's competent and he's not scared of the Woke and he's getting things done. He ain't perfect and his party is tired and all that, but as PMs go he could - in different circs - have been one of the much better ones. But he is doomed to a short tenure

    Relatedly, I saw a pic of Starmer the other day. He suddenly looks his age. 60. Quite chubby, and a little weary. Has the rosy flush of a drinker, too - no idea if he is (and I apologise to him if he's tee-total!)

    Sunak looks and seems sharper. More dynamic
    I noticed the same thing about Starmer. He had an ageless look for quite a long time, but now he's visibly changed. Perhaps the contrast between him and Sunak will be even starker by the time of the election.
    Yeah, for ages he seemed to be "about 50" and quite a well preserved 50, at that. Good hair. Now he looks what he is. 60. And a tired 60 because he has a busy and demanding job. I don't believe he will serve much more than one term

    If there are TV debates there will be quite a contrast twixt Starmer and Sunak
    Let’s not get carried away. Sunak drew (at best) TV debates with Liz Truss.

    I think one of the appeals of Rishi to many older voters must be the vibe he gives of the fresh faced, clean cut son done well. Always worked terribly hard at school unlike that layabout older brother of his. Much nicer to his dear mother than his slightly robotic little sister and her oddball friend Kwazi. Always remembers mother’s day. Sure he isn’t particularly handy around the house but granny was ever so proud at his graduation ceremony.

    Hence why also he isn’t taking the party with him. He just doesn’t look like he’s someone to lay down the law to the hoodlums.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,906

    For the bedwetters, from my mate in tech:

    (1) Everybody loves to pretend that language models are GPAI, they're not - they wouldn't know how to fix climate change unless somebody had previously written an article on it and fed it in. We're still a way off that. This is basically an Ask Jeeves that works properly.
    (2) If the "evil tech companies" had any method of wiping out humanity that they could connect an AI to, they would have triggered it accidentally years ago and killed us all already, due to human incompetence.

    I do broadly agree with that, but with one slight but important condition, we will only know where the dangerous boundary for step 2 lies when we cross it. It may then be too late to do much about it. One way of thinking about this is imagine you are climbing a hill in the dark (yay aren't transformers great!), how do you know your next step* is not off of a cliff edge? If we knew where the boundary is we would already know how to create AGI, or at least dangerous ML/AI.

    * Possibly only developing such technology in offline systems. Of course you might choose to develop such systems with air gaps, but that doesn't mean everyone else will.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,996

    carnforth said:

    This quite possibly just means being sent a letter of expulsion and appealing. It may be that the actual figures for completed explusions are in line with other countries (i.e vanishingly small).
    Possibly but it still looks very harsh and the absolute numbers are high especially given Sweden's populations

    Anyway, have we commented on this? Far more uplifting

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-11938101/A-horrified-shopper-brands-Sainsburys-big-daddy-steak-sexist-wildly-inappropriate.html
    Renaming it big mummy steak mightn’t resolve the problem.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,087
    And (so far) unindicted co-conspirator…

    Donald Trump Jr. has posted a picture of the judge's daughter on truth social.
    https://twitter.com/JoyceWhiteVance/status/1643329049442369537
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,465

    @TSE sympathies.

    My rear molar has flared up again today. Worst than ever. Whole side of my face is in pain.

    Hurts like it's got a Corbynite manifesto stuck in it. I am so terrified of the dentist I've been putting it off, but my wife has put her foot down.

    I've got at least three further appointments booked for this. Going to need either a bridge or an implant tooth.

    So a month of agony.
    Sorry to hear that.

    I'd be happy if I never saw a dentist for the rest of my life or if I was sedated at the entrance door every time I went.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,094
    @TSE , @Casino_Royale

    Over the counter remedies from Boots or other chemists for broken teeth include, in order of strength

    * Bonjela. The adult mouth ulcer one, not the child teething one. Not much help but some

    * Clove oil. Better. You will need cotton buds to apply it correctly because it's bad for gums, and it tastes really sharp, but it provides relief

    * Benzocaine-containing dental gel such as Orajel

    * Lidocaine-containing things like Anbesol

    You may also get a tooth repair kit, which involves you spatula-ing temporary filler into the gap. I havent tried these but they may help
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,872

    Leon said:

    This is a really strange case


    “Sean Hogg raped a 13 year old girl
    Judge Lord Lake saw fit to sentence Sean Hogg to:

    - No prison time
    - 7 weeks community service (unpaid work)
    - 3 years on the sex offender registry

    Rape in Scotland over the next 10 years will skyrocket because of this case”

    https://twitter.com/themaxstoic/status/1643166062475722753?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    People on Twitter are blaming it on Progressive SNP Judicial Reforms. I have NO idea if this is true

    It does seem remarkably lenient

    Isn't it complicated because he was seventeen when the rape(s?) happened?
    What is complicated about that.....lets take a straw poll of PB....who here didn't know at the age of 17 that rape was wrong?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,369
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    stodge said:

    Leon said:

    BREAKING:

    Sounds like Rishi Sunak is pressing ahead with plans to change the definition of sex in the Equality Act to biological sex

    Source close to Sunak says he 'remains committed to his campaign pledge' and he will support Badenoch in 'taking that work forward'


    https://twitter.com/steven_swinford/status/1643277177843007490

    Boy, he's good.

    Wish we had 5 more years of him. Shame we won't.
    Yes, I'm seriously warming to Sunak. He's competent and he's not scared of the Woke and he's getting things done. He ain't perfect and his party is tired and all that, but as PMs go he could - in different circs - have been one of the much better ones. But he is doomed to a short tenure

    Relatedly, I saw a pic of Starmer the other day. He suddenly looks his age. 60. Quite chubby, and a little weary. Has the rosy flush of a drinker, too - no idea if he is (and I apologise to him if he's tee-total!)

    Sunak looks and seems sharper. More dynamic
    Yes, we all love Rishi (or some do).

    The trouble is the Party he leads which as Ipsos shows today is disliked by about two thirds of the electorate. Perhaps the ideal would be to have Sunak lead Labour instead.

    Like Major before him, Sunak may well be a half decent Prime Minister but will be dragged to defeat by his own Party.
    The bitter irony is that the Tory Party could have avoided Truss altogether, gone for Sunak in the first place, and they might now still be in with a chance of winning in 2024

    Truss must be one of the greatest unforced errors ever made by a British political party. Along with Sturgeon pushing the Gender Act

    And yes, I am aware that at one point I predicted "Truss might surprise on the upside". Not my best moment
    [Humza Yousless has entered the chat] [As has Jeremy Corbyn}.
    Fair point

    I still think Truss is in a league of her own (certainly in terms of her spectacularly short career, and her unique self combustion) but Yousaf and Corbyn are right up there in terms of OMG-wrong-choice. Corbyn arguably guaranteed Brexit, so his elevation also had major long term consequences. Yousaf will just fail, and get the boot, quite quickly, I expect

    Even as an unrepentant Brexiteer I look at the choice of Ken Clarke and Iain Duncan Smith and just shake my head with disbelief. Another extraordinary choice.

    The only reasonable conclusion is that party memberships of all parties are made up of completely unrepresentative nutters. Any new leader elected really should face the electorate pretty much immediately if they are in power. It is simply unacceptable to leave determination of who our leaders are to these head bangers.
    If a new PM led to an immediate GE then Boris Johnson would still be PM.

    Given that, constitutionally, the PM is supposed to have the Confidence of the House, it does seem strange that party memberships can make a candidate with a minority of MP support within their party PM.

    I think that, if we had a recall mechanism for MPs that could be used in a wider set of circumstances, such that if the electorate was really unhappy with their MPs choice of a new PM they could force a by-election, then I'd be okay with preventing ballots of party membership to determine party leadership for government parties.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    carnforth said:

    This quite possibly just means being sent a letter of expulsion and appealing. It may be that the actual figures for completed explusions are in line with other countries (i.e vanishingly small).
    Possibly but it still looks very harsh and the absolute numbers are high especially given Sweden's populations

    Anyway, have we commented on this? Far more uplifting

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-11938101/A-horrified-shopper-brands-Sainsburys-big-daddy-steak-sexist-wildly-inappropriate.html
    That's as silly as all those people triggered by vegan sausage rolls.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,087
    This guy is awaiting sentencing.
    Probably not the smartest interview in the circs.

    Ed Badalian, freshly convicted on Jan. 6 charges, compares Trump’s arrest to the citizen’s arrest of Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden he hoped “patriots” and law enforcement would pull off.
    https://twitter.com/ryanjreilly/status/1643314081489625103
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,872
    Leon said:

    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    This is a really strange case


    “Sean Hogg raped a 13 year old girl
    Judge Lord Lake saw fit to sentence Sean Hogg to:

    - No prison time
    - 7 weeks community service (unpaid work)
    - 3 years on the sex offender registry

    Rape in Scotland over the next 10 years will skyrocket because of this case”

    https://twitter.com/themaxstoic/status/1643166062475722753?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    People on Twitter are blaming it on Progressive SNP Judicial Reforms. I have NO idea if this is true

    It does seem remarkably lenient

    Unusual sentence. I'll have to read more about it.
    It seems to be a result of sentencing guidelines introduced by the Scottish government for offenders under 25 (the rapist in this case was 17 at the time of the rape, 21 now).

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-65173054
    Rapists under the age of 25 won't get prison sentences?
    The presumption seems to be that they won't.

    What makes this even odder, at least judging by the news reports, is that. mitigating factors aside, there were some pretty strong aggravating factors: the victim was just 13. The judge's remark that if he had been over 25 the sentence would have been 4-5 years imprisonment is itself, on the face of it, odd: surely one would expect a much longer sentence?
    Also the report states that he attacked the girl, "on various occasions between March and June 2018." So, repeat offending. It wasn't a one-off aberration.

    Judges will sometimes make mistakes and I hope there is scope for the leniency of the sentence to be appealed, though the report only says that the defendant intends to appeal the sentence.
    I'm pretty sure it is the Crown which is intending to appeal the sentence, on the grounds of undue leniency, not the defendant. What would his appeal hope to achieve ? An even shorter period of litter-picking?
    Not only that but litter picking is going to put him in public places with 13 year old girls
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,848
    kle4 said:

    carnforth said:

    This quite possibly just means being sent a letter of expulsion and appealing. It may be that the actual figures for completed explusions are in line with other countries (i.e vanishingly small).
    Possibly but it still looks very harsh and the absolute numbers are high especially given Sweden's populations

    Anyway, have we commented on this? Far more uplifting

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-11938101/A-horrified-shopper-brands-Sainsburys-big-daddy-steak-sexist-wildly-inappropriate.html
    That's as silly as all those people triggered by vegan sausage rolls.
    I had two on Saturday :blush:
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    RobD said:

    As others have said, it doesn't look to me as if the Sean Hogg sentence has much to do with the SNP, Scotland, or the sentencing guidelines. Rather, it's to do with a slightly bonkers judge, and will be changed on appeal.
    Ludicrous sentences (both ways) have been known to happen in England, quite frequently.

    Even the BBC are saying it’s due to the sentencing guidelines.
    You can trust the BBC to get it right....
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,792
    glw said:

    For the bedwetters, from my mate in tech:

    (1) Everybody loves to pretend that language models are GPAI, they're not - they wouldn't know how to fix climate change unless somebody had previously written an article on it and fed it in. We're still a way off that. This is basically an Ask Jeeves that works properly.
    (2) If the "evil tech companies" had any method of wiping out humanity that they could connect an AI to, they would have triggered it accidentally years ago and killed us all already, due to human incompetence.

    I do broadly agree with that, but with one slight but important condition, we will only know where the dangerous boundary for step 2 lies when we cross it. It may then be too late to do much about it. One way of thinking about this is imagine you are climbing a hill in the dark (yay aren't transformers great!), how do you know your next step* is not off of a cliff edge? If we knew where the boundary is we would already know how to create AGI, or at least dangerous ML/AI.

    * Possibly only developing such technology in offline systems. Of course you might choose to develop such systems with air gaps, but that doesn't mean everyone else will.
    There's a quite good (and long) interview with Stephen Wolfram of Mathematica & Wolfram/Alpha fame (amongst many other achievements) youtube interview about AI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5WZhCBRDpU

    Ostensibly about the integration of ChatGPT and Wolfram/Alpha - but it goes way deep into the mathematics and philosophy underpinning it all.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,792
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    BREAKING:

    Sounds like Rishi Sunak is pressing ahead with plans to change the definition of sex in the Equality Act to biological sex

    Source close to Sunak says he 'remains committed to his campaign pledge' and he will support Badenoch in 'taking that work forward'


    https://twitter.com/steven_swinford/status/1643277177843007490

    Boy, he's good.

    Wish we had 5 more years of him. Shame we won't.
    Yes, I'm seriously warming to Sunak. He's competent and he's not scared of the Woke and he's getting things done. He ain't perfect and his party is tired and all that, but as PMs go he could - in different circs - have been one of the much better ones. But he is doomed to a short tenure

    Relatedly, I saw a pic of Starmer the other day. He suddenly looks his age. 60. Quite chubby, and a little weary. Has the rosy flush of a drinker, too - no idea if he is (and I apologise to him if he's tee-total!)

    Sunak looks and seems sharper. More dynamic
    I noticed the same thing about Starmer. He had an ageless look for quite a long time, but now he's visibly changed. Perhaps the contrast between him and Sunak will be even starker by the time of the election.
    Yeah, for ages he seemed to be "about 50" and quite a well preserved 50, at that. Good hair. Now he looks what he is. 60. And a tired 60 because he has a busy and demanding job. I don't believe he will serve much more than one term

    If there are TV debates there will be quite a contrast twixt Starmer and Sunak
    Let’s not get carried away. Sunak drew (at best) TV debates with Liz Truss.

    I think one of the appeals of Rishi to many older voters must be the vibe he gives of the fresh faced, clean cut son done well. Always worked terribly hard at school unlike that layabout older brother of his. Much nicer to his dear mother than his slightly robotic little sister and her oddball friend Kwazi. Always remembers mother’s day. Sure he isn’t particularly handy around the house but granny was ever so proud at his graduation ceremony.

    Hence why also he isn’t taking the party with him. He just doesn’t look like he’s someone to lay down the law to the hoodlums.
    David 'Hug a hoodie' Cameron seemed to drag them along just fine.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,465
    Why do I need shitty nerves in my teeth anyway?

    Such BS. Don't have them in hair, finger nails or toenails.

    Need them in gums and tongue. Tooth nerves are about as much use as mosquitoes or wasps.
  • Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    This is a really strange case


    “Sean Hogg raped a 13 year old girl
    Judge Lord Lake saw fit to sentence Sean Hogg to:

    - No prison time
    - 7 weeks community service (unpaid work)
    - 3 years on the sex offender registry

    Rape in Scotland over the next 10 years will skyrocket because of this case”

    https://twitter.com/themaxstoic/status/1643166062475722753?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    People on Twitter are blaming it on Progressive SNP Judicial Reforms. I have NO idea if this is true

    It does seem remarkably lenient

    Isn't it complicated because he was seventeen when the rape(s?) happened?
    What is complicated about that.....lets take a straw poll of PB....who here didn't know at the age of 17 that rape was wrong?
    I mean Scottish law made it complicated (and English law probably would have too?) because of his age at the time of the offence

    I don't support the sentence
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    edited April 2023

    @TSE sympathies.

    My rear molar has flared up again today. Worst than ever. Whole side of my face is in pain.

    Hurts like it's got a Corbynite manifesto stuck in it. I am so terrified of the dentist I've been putting it off, but my wife has put her foot down.

    I've got at least three further appointments booked for this. Going to need either a bridge or an implant tooth.

    So a month of agony.
    Sorry to hear that.

    I'd be happy if I never saw a dentist for the rest of my life or if I was sedated at the entrance door every time I went.
    I was relieved of 113 today hygienist tomorrow about 60 and next month about 400 for a bit more complicated work.

    Prices at my dentist have gone up 25 pc in the last 6 months.. at a guess. These Dentists are making a killing.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,679

    For the bedwetters, from my mate in tech:

    (1) Everybody loves to pretend that language models are GPAI, they're not - they wouldn't know how to fix climate change unless somebody had previously written an article on it and fed it in. We're still a way off that. This is basically an Ask Jeeves that works properly.
    (2) If the "evil tech companies" had any method of wiping out humanity that they could connect an AI to, they would have triggered it accidentally years ago and killed us all already, due to human incompetence.

    Yes, people lose sight of the fact that this is all primarily an experiment. Some of these models have been kicking around for decades, and the tantalizing question always was: if we had the processing power and capacity to make them operational would they turn out to be identical to human intelligence, indeed would it prove that that's what human intelligence actually is? Well, now we have the hardware and they've conducted the experiment. The question is: are the considerable flaws fixable, or is the model itself entirely broken backed? I'm inclined to the latter.
  • @TSE sympathies.

    My rear molar has flared up again today. Worst than ever. Whole side of my face is in pain.

    Hurts like it's got a Corbynite manifesto stuck in it. I am so terrified of the dentist I've been putting it off, but my wife has put her foot down.

    I've got at least three further appointments booked for this. Going to need either a bridge or an implant tooth.

    So a month of agony.
    Sorry to hear that.

    I'd be happy if I never saw a dentist for the rest of my life or if I was sedated at the entrance door every time I went.
    I was relieved of 113 today hygienist tomorrow about 60 and next month about 400 for a bit more complicated work.

    Prices at my dentist have gone up 25 pc in the last 6 months.. at a guess. These Dentists are making a killing.
    My dentist said I was looking at £3,500 for the dental implant.

    That's at a discount with my private dental insurance/plan.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,535

    Why do I need shitty nerves in my teeth anyway?

    Such BS. Don't have them in hair, finger nails or toenails.

    Need them in gums and tongue. Tooth nerves are about as much use as mosquitoes or wasps.

    Hair and nails are unlikely to kill you if they go wrong. Pre-20th century bad teeth was one of the top 5 causes of death.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,263
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    This is a really strange case


    “Sean Hogg raped a 13 year old girl
    Judge Lord Lake saw fit to sentence Sean Hogg to:

    - No prison time
    - 7 weeks community service (unpaid work)
    - 3 years on the sex offender registry

    Rape in Scotland over the next 10 years will skyrocket because of this case”

    https://twitter.com/themaxstoic/status/1643166062475722753?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    People on Twitter are blaming it on Progressive SNP Judicial Reforms. I have NO idea if this is true

    It does seem remarkably lenient

    I got the conviction.
    As judge or lawyer?

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,087
    edited April 2023
    Pompeo has picked an interesting day on which to contradict Trump.

    I’ve just left Ukraine. I've seen the damage caused by Putin's invasion. And I've been inspired by the bravery of the Ukrainian people.

    One thing is clear: helping Ukraine end this war is in America's core interest. (1/4)

    https://twitter.com/mikepompeo/status/1643256479607029763
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,792

    Why do I need shitty nerves in my teeth anyway?

    Such BS. Don't have them in hair, finger nails or toenails.

    Need them in gums and tongue. Tooth nerves are about as much use as mosquitoes or wasps.

    As an early teenager I had to swerve out of the way of an oncoming car, went head-first over my bike handlebars and broke one of my front teeth.

    The dentist had to drill 'up' into my tooth to kill the dangling nerve.

    As I squirmed and screamed in the chair she *shouted at me* "You can't feel the pain - you've had an injection!" and drilled some more. I blacked out at that point.

    I :heart: dentists.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,342

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    stodge said:

    Leon said:

    BREAKING:

    Sounds like Rishi Sunak is pressing ahead with plans to change the definition of sex in the Equality Act to biological sex

    Source close to Sunak says he 'remains committed to his campaign pledge' and he will support Badenoch in 'taking that work forward'


    https://twitter.com/steven_swinford/status/1643277177843007490

    Boy, he's good.

    Wish we had 5 more years of him. Shame we won't.
    Yes, I'm seriously warming to Sunak. He's competent and he's not scared of the Woke and he's getting things done. He ain't perfect and his party is tired and all that, but as PMs go he could - in different circs - have been one of the much better ones. But he is doomed to a short tenure

    Relatedly, I saw a pic of Starmer the other day. He suddenly looks his age. 60. Quite chubby, and a little weary. Has the rosy flush of a drinker, too - no idea if he is (and I apologise to him if he's tee-total!)

    Sunak looks and seems sharper. More dynamic
    Yes, we all love Rishi (or some do).

    The trouble is the Party he leads which as Ipsos shows today is disliked by about two thirds of the electorate. Perhaps the ideal would be to have Sunak lead Labour instead.

    Like Major before him, Sunak may well be a half decent Prime Minister but will be dragged to defeat by his own Party.
    The bitter irony is that the Tory Party could have avoided Truss altogether, gone for Sunak in the first place, and they might now still be in with a chance of winning in 2024

    Truss must be one of the greatest unforced errors ever made by a British political party. Along with Sturgeon pushing the Gender Act

    And yes, I am aware that at one point I predicted "Truss might surprise on the upside". Not my best moment
    [Humza Yousless has entered the chat] [As has Jeremy Corbyn}.
    Fair point

    I still think Truss is in a league of her own (certainly in terms of her spectacularly short career, and her unique self combustion) but Yousaf and Corbyn are right up there in terms of OMG-wrong-choice. Corbyn arguably guaranteed Brexit, so his elevation also had major long term consequences. Yousaf will just fail, and get the boot, quite quickly, I expect

    It won't be a Brian Clough at Leeds type tenure like Truss, but they will get squeezed badly at the GE (no chance of gains in the Borders/Highlands, losses to Lab across the central belt, almost certain loss of e.g. the Western Isles due to ferries debacle). Then the MSPs will start to get nervous ahead of Holyrood 2026, and he'll be out, IMO.
    Yes, I concur. Gone before the next Holyrood elex
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,844

    Why do I need shitty nerves in my teeth anyway?

    Such BS. Don't have them in hair, finger nails or toenails.

    Need them in gums and tongue. Tooth nerves are about as much use as mosquitoes or wasps.

    It's a design flaw. I blame the architect.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,303
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    BREAKING:

    Sounds like Rishi Sunak is pressing ahead with plans to change the definition of sex in the Equality Act to biological sex

    Source close to Sunak says he 'remains committed to his campaign pledge' and he will support Badenoch in 'taking that work forward'


    https://twitter.com/steven_swinford/status/1643277177843007490

    Quite frankly the Scottish government should welcome this. The result would be that the safeguards they completely failed to put in their bill would then be in the Equality Act and their bill could then proceed on the basis that all they are doing is giving people a gender recognition certificate but it doesn't give them the rights to go into woman only places or mess about with our prison system.

    This is indeed the correct solution to the problem and once it is in place people can call themselves what they like. There are other issues, such as giving powerful drugs to children that affect their development, but a lot of the heat would go. If Yousless had any brains he would seize this as an excuse not to proceed with his judicial review of the s35 order. There is, however, a fatal flaw in that observation.
    Should but won't because the Greens will find something objectionable in legally defining biological sex. Because they are absolutely BARKING mad.

    I cannot believe this of all things is what the SG want to go toe to toe with Westminster over. You can see why the tin foil hat brigade think that the SNP has been infiltrated by fifth columnists.
    The Greens are indeed insane. And obnoxious with it. And yet Nicola still preferred them to half her own party.
    It's the lure of No One More Progressive Than Me.

    It is interesting to watch the circumlocutions that are used to avoid having to make a choice.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,087
    ohnotnow said:

    Why do I need shitty nerves in my teeth anyway?

    Such BS. Don't have them in hair, finger nails or toenails.

    Need them in gums and tongue. Tooth nerves are about as much use as mosquitoes or wasps.

    As an early teenager I had to swerve out of the way of an oncoming car, went head-first over my bike handlebars and broke one of my front teeth.

    The dentist had to drill 'up' into my tooth to kill the dangling nerve.

    As I squirmed and screamed in the chair she *shouted at me* "You can't feel the pain - you've had an injection!" and drilled some more. I blacked out at that point.

    I :heart: dentists.
    My dentist was genuinely called Mr Paine.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,675
    RobD said:

    As others have said, it doesn't look to me as if the Sean Hogg sentence has much to do with the SNP, Scotland, or the sentencing guidelines. Rather, it's to do with a slightly bonkers judge, and will be changed on appeal.
    Ludicrous sentences (both ways) have been known to happen in England, quite frequently.

    Even the BBC are saying it’s due to the sentencing guidelines.
    I have no understanding of this case but it does feel like the SNP have had some extraordinary bad luck. A bunch of cases have come up which serve to confirm the various suspicions of the Mumsnet cohort.

    Yousaf was Justice Secretary for three years, including for when the consultation for the sentencing guidelines for young people was conducted.

    How very House of Cards. There is a novel in this, somewhere...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,303
    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    This is a really strange case


    “Sean Hogg raped a 13 year old girl
    Judge Lord Lake saw fit to sentence Sean Hogg to:

    - No prison time
    - 7 weeks community service (unpaid work)
    - 3 years on the sex offender registry

    Rape in Scotland over the next 10 years will skyrocket because of this case”

    https://twitter.com/themaxstoic/status/1643166062475722753?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    People on Twitter are blaming it on Progressive SNP Judicial Reforms. I have NO idea if this is true

    It does seem remarkably lenient

    Unusual sentence. I'll have to read more about it.
    It seems to be a result of sentencing guidelines introduced by the Scottish government for offenders under 25 (the rapist in this case was 17 at the time of the rape, 21 now).

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-65173054
    Rapists under the age of 25 won't get prison sentences?
    The presumption seems to be that they won't.

    What makes this even odder, at least judging by the news reports, is that. mitigating factors aside, there were some pretty strong aggravating factors: the victim was just 13. The judge's remark that if he had been over 25 the sentence would have been 4-5 years imprisonment is itself, on the face of it, odd: surely one would expect a much longer sentence?
    Also the report states that he attacked the girl, "on various occasions between March and June 2018." So, repeat offending. It wasn't a one-off aberration.

    Judges will sometimes make mistakes and I hope there is scope for the leniency of the sentence to be appealed, though the report only says that the defendant intends to appeal the sentence.
    I'm pretty sure it is the Crown which is intending to appeal the sentence, on the grounds of undue leniency, not the defendant. What would his appeal hope to achieve ? An even shorter period of litter-picking?
    Not only that but litter picking is going to put him in public places with 13 year old girls
    What about litter picking here? There's lots to do, and a reduced chance of meeting too many vulnerable people.

    image
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,263

    kle4 said:

    Trump is just a media circus for 24 7 news like GB news and the equally appalling Sky News .au which is obsessed with slagging off Harry and Meghan.....

    If we could manage to get a story combining Trump, Meghan, JK Rowling, and Andrew Tate, the internet might just explode.
    Add in Princess Diana and Madeline McCann perhaps?
    Madeline McCann was disappeared because she was the love child of Trump and Meghan (hence the repeated Ms in her name)… JK Rowling communicated with Princess Diana to instruct Andrew Tate on how to do this… because she knew that Harry was going to wed Meghan and didn’t want any link to Trump…?

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,662

    @TSE sympathies.

    My rear molar has flared up again today. Worst than ever. Whole side of my face is in pain.

    Hurts like it's got a Corbynite manifesto stuck in it. I am so terrified of the dentist I've been putting it off, but my wife has put her foot down.

    I've got at least three further appointments booked for this. Going to need either a bridge or an implant tooth.

    So a month of agony.
    Sorry to hear that.

    I'd be happy if I never saw a dentist for the rest of my life or if I was sedated at the entrance door every time I went.
    I was relieved of 113 today hygienist tomorrow about 60 and next month about 400 for a bit more complicated work.

    Prices at my dentist have gone up 25 pc in the last 6 months.. at a guess. These Dentists are making a killing.
    If you don't already have one, personal ultrasonic descalers work really well to minimise the amount of professional work you need.
  • Leon said:

    @TSE sympathies.

    My rear molar has flared up again today. Worst than ever. Whole side of my face is in pain.

    Hurts like it's got a Corbynite manifesto stuck in it. I am so terrified of the dentist I've been putting it off, but my wife has put her foot down.

    I've got at least three further appointments booked for this. Going to need either a bridge or an implant tooth.

    So a month of agony.
    Sympathies. Toothache is a bitch

    Maybe you could abandon your tee-totalism for a month? Strong liquor does help
    Amen. Inconsolable toothache can be cured* by drinking decent Scotch. A sensible** measure removes the throbbing. A second sensible measure removes the memory of toothache.
    *not cured
    **not sensible
This discussion has been closed.