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The local elections could be tainted – politicalbetting.com

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  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,940

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    It's all over for Humza. Game-changing endorsement for Kate.

    https://twitter.com/paulhutcheon/status/1629813929533734913

    Jacob Rees Mogg seems keener on Kate Forbes than Lord Hague in that article
    Hague was a Remainer.
    He also backed Sunak
    He also lost 2 elections.

    Is JRM not meant to disagree with him?
    2? 2001 yes, what was the other?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,394

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    It's all over for Humza. Game-changing endorsement for Kate.

    https://twitter.com/paulhutcheon/status/1629813929533734913

    Jacob Rees Mogg seems keener on Kate Forbes than Lord Hague in that article
    Hague was a Remainer.
    He also backed Sunak
    He also lost 2 elections.

    Is JRM not meant to disagree with him?
    Two elections? Which was the second?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,592
    kjh said:

    Well I have just made a valiant effort to set fire to my house. Threw a log onto my newly lit stove and I had burning cones all over my carpet.

    Whoops.

    Several decades ago, my dad demolished a high-voltage substation. The floor of the building was made of hardwood cubic blocks, probably about two inches on a side. (*) He disposed of most of them, but kept a hundred or so as firewood in our wood store. Each block was rather heavy. Come winter, he started the first fire of the year. Once it was going, he fetched one of the blocks and chucked it on.

    After a few minutes, flames were roaring up the chimney, and out of the fireplace and up the wall into the room. He and my brother got some tongs and got the block out onto a metal tray, then chucked it through the window into the garden, where it burnt merrily away for a long time.

    On closer examination, it turned out that over the years, oil had leaked out of the wet transformers and onto the floor, where it had seeped into the blocks.

    We ended up chopping them into tiny pieces, which made brilliant firelighters. If somewhat smelly...

    (*) I have no idea why the floor was wooden, given fire risk. Vibration? Lack of risk of short-circuits? Static prevention?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Evening All :)

    There's a serious issue about the provision of public transport to rural and semi-rural areas. There's a statistic about the reduction in bus services outside London which is remarkable.

    Not being able to get a bus back to the village after 7pm has economic and cultural impacts. The young leave and the village becomes increasingly remote for those not in possession of a car.

    Perhaps it's time to get past this absurd notion of providing transport services for and at a profit and emphasise public need so communities aren't left isolated.

    I now live in rural Essex. There is literally one bus a day here to Ongar, Harlow or Epping
    It's clear from you and other contributors there is a problem. What then is the solution? How would you increase services or do we need to think about other forms of community-accessible transport beyond buses?
    Unfortunately it is largely down to lack of demand. Most people living in rural areas are either retired pensioners or farmers. They just don't need to go to the nearest town or city more than once or twice a week.

    Hence the bus companies won't do more regular services, unless more families where the parents commute to work in the city and the children go to secondary school in the nearest town move there
    The problem is "rural" is increasingly "anything outside a city".

    Even a bus to a commuter town a relatively short distance outside a city is at high risk now. And it's not just farmers and pensioners using those.
    Albeit most commuter towns still have a railway station which most villages and rural areas don't
    I realise you wrote ‘most’ but the town where I live now doesn’t have a station. Nor does another not far away.
    For which blame Beeching.

    Almost all towns with populations over 25,000 will have a station still however
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Evening All :)

    There's a serious issue about the provision of public transport to rural and semi-rural areas. There's a statistic about the reduction in bus services outside London which is remarkable.

    Not being able to get a bus back to the village after 7pm has economic and cultural impacts. The young leave and the village becomes increasingly remote for those not in possession of a car.

    Perhaps it's time to get past this absurd notion of providing transport services for and at a profit and emphasise public need so communities aren't left isolated.

    I now live in rural Essex. There is literally one bus a day here to Ongar, Harlow or Epping
    It's clear from you and other contributors there is a problem. What then is the solution? How would you increase services or do we need to think about other forms of community-accessible transport beyond buses?
    Unfortunately it is largely down to lack of demand. Most people living in rural areas are either retired pensioners or farmers. They just don't need to go to the nearest town or city more than once or twice a week.

    Hence the bus companies won't do more regular services, unless more families where the parents commute to work in the city and the children go to secondary school in the nearest town move there
    The problem is "rural" is increasingly "anything outside a city".

    Even a bus to a commuter town a relatively short distance outside a city is at high risk now. And it's not just farmers and pensioners using those.
    Albeit most commuter towns still have a railway station which most villages and rural areas don't
    I realise you wrote ‘most’ but the town where I live now doesn’t have a station. Nor does another not far away.
    For which blame Beeching.

    Almost all towns with populations over 25,000 will have a station still however
    The town where I live, and the other to which I referred, have never had railway stations. To be fair, the other one has grown considerably over the past ten years.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Late to this party, but surely if the Conservatives achieve a significant advantage over Labour with the strict ID checks then it's mission accomplished. And if that can be translated eighteen months later into a Conservative General Election victory they would consider that to be more power to their elbow, and with no downside.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    Cicero said:

    Belarusian exile sources saying that BY Partisans have blown up a Russian AWACS plane on the ground at the Machulishchy Air base south of Mensk/Minsk. Staggering if true. It implies that Belarusian resistance is growing in ways that will deeply worry Putin and his Puppet Lukashenka. Also Russia only has nine of these things, so its loss would be quite a blow.

    The Ukrainian military were hinting that they they were finding people in Russia who were prepared to do this kind of thing for money….
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269

    Taz said:

    If Starmer is looking to rapidly roll out new solar, onshore and offshore wind he could do worse than consider reforming the planning regs to speed the process up.

    https://twitter.com/s8mb/status/1629140437729525760?s=61&t=YPx0lQ3gzAMlA-LCfpcksQ

    Lots of details and tradeoffs to work out, but I don't see how Britain prospers without massive loosening and speeding up of the planning system.

    And given who votes for each party, I don't see how the Conservatives do the necessary reform.
    Offshore has been streamlined - to a certain extent.

    I had an environmental lawyer ranting at me about how a decade long process for major infrastructure was a Democratic Right and that the bastard Tories were siding with offshore wind industry against The People.

    His taste in wine was OK - he joined our table after we all got chatting.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431

    kjh said:

    Well I have just made a valiant effort to set fire to my house. Threw a log onto my newly lit stove and I had burning cones all over my carpet.

    Whoops.

    Several decades ago, my dad demolished a high-voltage substation. The floor of the building was made of hardwood cubic blocks, probably about two inches on a side. (*) He disposed of most of them, but kept a hundred or so as firewood in our wood store. Each block was rather heavy. Come winter, he started the first fire of the year. Once it was going, he fetched one of the blocks and chucked it on.

    After a few minutes, flames were roaring up the chimney, and out of the fireplace and up the wall into the room. He and my brother got some tongs and got the block out onto a metal tray, then chucked it through the window into the garden, where it burnt merrily away for a long time.

    On closer examination, it turned out that over the years, oil had leaked out of the wet transformers and onto the floor, where it had seeped into the blocks.

    We ended up chopping them into tiny pieces, which made brilliant firelighters. If somewhat smelly...

    (*) I have no idea why the floor was wooden, given fire risk. Vibration? Lack of risk of short-circuits? Static prevention?
    A friend used to manage a pharmaceutical wholesaler in Bradford, in a onetime woollen mill. He said much of the woodwork was soaked in lanolin and if there was a fire it would go up like a fireball!
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,706
    The result of the SNP leadership election is certainly going to provide great entertainment whichever way it goes.

    If Yousaf wins, SNP poll ratings will collapse, they'll lose dozens of seats at Westminster and Holyrood, and there will be no chance of Independence for the next 15 to 20 years.

    If Forbes wins, full scale internal civil war will break out within the SNP.
  • What is wrong with Yousaf?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Evening All :)

    There's a serious issue about the provision of public transport to rural and semi-rural areas. There's a statistic about the reduction in bus services outside London which is remarkable.

    Not being able to get a bus back to the village after 7pm has economic and cultural impacts. The young leave and the village becomes increasingly remote for those not in possession of a car.

    Perhaps it's time to get past this absurd notion of providing transport services for and at a profit and emphasise public need so communities aren't left isolated.

    I now live in rural Essex. There is literally one bus a day here to Ongar, Harlow or Epping
    It's clear from you and other contributors there is a problem. What then is the solution? How would you increase services or do we need to think about other forms of community-accessible transport beyond buses?
    Unfortunately it is largely down to lack of demand. Most people living in rural areas are either retired pensioners or farmers. They just don't need to go to the nearest town or city more than once or twice a week.

    Hence the bus companies won't do more regular services, unless more families where the parents commute to work in the city and the children go to secondary school in the nearest town move there
    The problem is "rural" is increasingly "anything outside a city".

    Even a bus to a commuter town a relatively short distance outside a city is at high risk now. And it's not just farmers and pensioners using those.
    Albeit most commuter towns still have a railway station which most villages and rural areas don't
    I realise you wrote ‘most’ but the town where I live now doesn’t have a station. Nor does another not far away.
    Same here.
    And here.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    edited February 2023
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Evening All :)

    There's a serious issue about the provision of public transport to rural and semi-rural areas. There's a statistic about the reduction in bus services outside London which is remarkable.

    Not being able to get a bus back to the village after 7pm has economic and cultural impacts. The young leave and the village becomes increasingly remote for those not in possession of a car.

    Perhaps it's time to get past this absurd notion of providing transport services for and at a profit and emphasise public need so communities aren't left isolated.

    I now live in rural Essex. There is literally one bus a day here to Ongar, Harlow or Epping
    It's clear from you and other contributors there is a problem. What then is the solution? How would you increase services or do we need to think about other forms of community-accessible transport beyond buses?
    Unfortunately it is largely down to lack of demand. Most people living in rural areas are either retired pensioners or farmers. They just don't need to go to the nearest town or city more than once or twice a week.

    Hence the bus companies won't do more regular services, unless more families where the parents commute to work in the city and the children go to secondary school in the nearest town move there
    The problem is "rural" is increasingly "anything outside a city".

    Even a bus to a commuter town a relatively short distance outside a city is at high risk now. And it's not just farmers and pensioners using those.
    Albeit most commuter towns still have a railway station which most villages and rural areas don't
    I realise you wrote ‘most’ but the town where I live now doesn’t have a station. Nor does another not far away.
    For which blame Beeching.

    Almost all towns with populations over 25,000 will have a station still however
    Mine doesn't.
    The other issue is, of course, you can only commute to the places on the same line. Even if we had a station, I couldn't get to my work by train. As it would only go into Newcastle. Not the neighbouring town.
  • Foxy said:

    stodge said:

    Evening All :)

    There's a serious issue about the provision of public transport to rural and semi-rural areas. There's a statistic about the reduction in bus services outside London which is remarkable.

    Not being able to get a bus back to the village after 7pm has economic and cultural impacts. The young leave and the village becomes increasingly remote for those not in possession of a car.

    Perhaps it's time to get past this absurd notion of providing transport services for and at a profit and emphasise public need so communities aren't left isolated.

    Also, to ensure that rural communities are not just for retirees who want to escape to the country.
    Labour, LibDems and Greens should put reliable bus services at the core of their rural policy strategy.

    Our County Council (Con controlled) is about to stop our only bus service. I am sure it will be a major issue in the forthcoming Local Elections.

    Compared with HS2 it would be a pittance to keep such services going.
    It was one of Corbyn's best policies.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,394
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Evening All :)

    There's a serious issue about the provision of public transport to rural and semi-rural areas. There's a statistic about the reduction in bus services outside London which is remarkable.

    Not being able to get a bus back to the village after 7pm has economic and cultural impacts. The young leave and the village becomes increasingly remote for those not in possession of a car.

    Perhaps it's time to get past this absurd notion of providing transport services for and at a profit and emphasise public need so communities aren't left isolated.

    I now live in rural Essex. There is literally one bus a day here to Ongar, Harlow or Epping
    It's clear from you and other contributors there is a problem. What then is the solution? How would you increase services or do we need to think about other forms of community-accessible transport beyond buses?
    Unfortunately it is largely down to lack of demand. Most people living in rural areas are either retired pensioners or farmers. They just don't need to go to the nearest town or city more than once or twice a week.

    Hence the bus companies won't do more regular services, unless more families where the parents commute to work in the city and the children go to secondary school in the nearest town move there
    The problem is "rural" is increasingly "anything outside a city".

    Even a bus to a commuter town a relatively short distance outside a city is at high risk now. And it's not just farmers and pensioners using those.
    Albeit most commuter towns still have a railway station which most villages and rural areas don't
    I realise you wrote ‘most’ but the town where I live now doesn’t have a station. Nor does another not far away.
    For which blame Beeching.

    Almost all towns with populations over 25,000 will have a station still however
    Mine doesn't.
    The other issue is, of course, you can only commute to the places on the same line. Even if we had a station, I couldn't get to my work by train. As it would only go into Newcastle. Not the neighbouring town.
    Newcastle under Lyme has no station either. Must be the only large town in Staffordshire that doesn't.

    Can't think where the nearest convenient station would be either. Stoke's a bugger to get to except by train. Stone, maybe?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269

    kjh said:

    Well I have just made a valiant effort to set fire to my house. Threw a log onto my newly lit stove and I had burning cones all over my carpet.

    Whoops.

    Several decades ago, my dad demolished a high-voltage substation. The floor of the building was made of hardwood cubic blocks, probably about two inches on a side. (*) He disposed of most of them, but kept a hundred or so as firewood in our wood store. Each block was rather heavy. Come winter, he started the first fire of the year. Once it was going, he fetched one of the blocks and chucked it on.

    After a few minutes, flames were roaring up the chimney, and out of the fireplace and up the wall into the room. He and my brother got some tongs and got the block out onto a metal tray, then chucked it through the window into the garden, where it burnt merrily away for a long time.

    On closer examination, it turned out that over the years, oil had leaked out of the wet transformers and onto the floor, where it had seeped into the blocks.

    We ended up chopping them into tiny pieces, which made brilliant firelighters. If somewhat smelly...

    (*) I have no idea why the floor was wooden, given fire risk. Vibration? Lack of risk of short-circuits? Static prevention?
    I am full of horror at the thought of what that oil was. There is a reason that transformer oil is causing all kinds of fun with site clean up in the US.

    Reminds me of meeting online a B26 navigator from WWII, who told us how he and his friends used to fill their lighters with the super octane aviation gasoline.

    At the oil company I worked at (one of the original companies that invented the stuff) wee would refuse my get requests for some WWII 150 octane stuff, from the warbird community. The answer was always no - H&S would never allow us to ship that witches brew these days.

    IIRC Toluene and Benzene were just where the fun started. Those two give you liver cancer with remarkable reliability. The whole mixture is (again IIRC) officially - teratogenic, carcinogenic, mutagenic, poisonous. In addition to the usual explosive and inflammable.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431
    Foxy said:

    stodge said:

    Evening All :)

    There's a serious issue about the provision of public transport to rural and semi-rural areas. There's a statistic about the reduction in bus services outside London which is remarkable.

    Not being able to get a bus back to the village after 7pm has economic and cultural impacts. The young leave and the village becomes increasingly remote for those not in possession of a car.

    Perhaps it's time to get past this absurd notion of providing transport services for and at a profit and emphasise public need so communities aren't left isolated.

    Also, to ensure that rural communities are not just for retirees who want to escape to the country.
    Labour, LibDems and Greens should put reliable bus services at the core of their rural policy strategy.

    Our County Council (Con controlled) is about to stop our only bus service. I am sure it will be a major issue in the forthcoming Local Elections.

    Compared with HS2 it would be a pittance to keep such services going.
    IIRC both LibDems and Greens support improved local bus services. Round here anyway.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Evening All :)

    There's a serious issue about the provision of public transport to rural and semi-rural areas. There's a statistic about the reduction in bus services outside London which is remarkable.

    Not being able to get a bus back to the village after 7pm has economic and cultural impacts. The young leave and the village becomes increasingly remote for those not in possession of a car.

    Perhaps it's time to get past this absurd notion of providing transport services for and at a profit and emphasise public need so communities aren't left isolated.

    I now live in rural Essex. There is literally one bus a day here to Ongar, Harlow or Epping
    It's clear from you and other contributors there is a problem. What then is the solution? How would you increase services or do we need to think about other forms of community-accessible transport beyond buses?
    Unfortunately it is largely down to lack of demand. Most people living in rural areas are either retired pensioners or farmers. They just don't need to go to the nearest town or city more than once or twice a week.

    Hence the bus companies won't do more regular services, unless more families where the parents commute to work in the city and the children go to secondary school in the nearest town move there
    The problem is "rural" is increasingly "anything outside a city".

    Even a bus to a commuter town a relatively short distance outside a city is at high risk now. And it's not just farmers and pensioners using those.
    Albeit most commuter towns still have a railway station which most villages and rural areas don't
    I realise you wrote ‘most’ but the town where I live now doesn’t have a station. Nor does another not far away.
    For which blame Beeching.

    Almost all towns with populations over 25,000 will have a station still however
    Mine doesn't.
    The other issue is, of course, you can only commute to the places on the same line. Even if we had a station, I couldn't get to my work by train. As it would only go into Newcastle. Not the neighbouring town.
    For most of the South East trains are only for getting in and out of London and only of use for anything else if where you want to go happens by unlikely chance to be on the route in/out of London on your line.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    edited February 2023

    Foxy said:

    stodge said:

    Evening All :)

    There's a serious issue about the provision of public transport to rural and semi-rural areas. There's a statistic about the reduction in bus services outside London which is remarkable.

    Not being able to get a bus back to the village after 7pm has economic and cultural impacts. The young leave and the village becomes increasingly remote for those not in possession of a car.

    Perhaps it's time to get past this absurd notion of providing transport services for and at a profit and emphasise public need so communities aren't left isolated.

    Also, to ensure that rural communities are not just for retirees who want to escape to the country.
    Labour, LibDems and Greens should put reliable bus services at the core of their rural policy strategy.

    Our County Council (Con controlled) is about to stop our only bus service. I am sure it will be a major issue in the forthcoming Local Elections.

    Compared with HS2 it would be a pittance to keep such services going.
    It was one of Corbyn's best policies.
    I really like the idea of exploring demand by using scheduled taxis/mini-buses to see who will start using services if they are available.

    Reduce the cost of creating a service to as little as possible. And go for higher frequency over a big empty bus, once an hour.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,785
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Evening All :)

    There's a serious issue about the provision of public transport to rural and semi-rural areas. There's a statistic about the reduction in bus services outside London which is remarkable.

    Not being able to get a bus back to the village after 7pm has economic and cultural impacts. The young leave and the village becomes increasingly remote for those not in possession of a car.

    Perhaps it's time to get past this absurd notion of providing transport services for and at a profit and emphasise public need so communities aren't left isolated.

    I now live in rural Essex. There is literally one bus a day here to Ongar, Harlow or Epping
    It's clear from you and other contributors there is a problem. What then is the solution? How would you increase services or do we need to think about other forms of community-accessible transport beyond buses?
    Unfortunately it is largely down to lack of demand. Most people living in rural areas are either retired pensioners or farmers. They just don't need to go to the nearest town or city more than once or twice a week.

    Hence the bus companies won't do more regular services, unless more families where the parents commute to work in the city and the children go to secondary school in the nearest town move there
    The problem is "rural" is increasingly "anything outside a city".

    Even a bus to a commuter town a relatively short distance outside a city is at high risk now. And it's not just farmers and pensioners using those.
    Albeit most commuter towns still have a railway station which most villages and rural areas don't
    I realise you wrote ‘most’ but the town where I live now doesn’t have a station. Nor does another not far away.
    For which blame Beeching.

    Almost all towns with populations over 25,000 will have a station still however
    Mine doesn't.
    The other issue is, of course, you can only commute to the places on the same line. Even if we had a station, I couldn't get to my work by train. As it would only go into Newcastle. Not the neighbouring town.
    My city's bus service is run on a 'spoke' system - like a clock-face all taking people from the edge to the centre. If you want to get a few miles 'around' the clock-face then tough. Pay for a ticket all the way into the centre (on your preference of 'service providers'), then all the way back out to the place you wanted to get to.

    Really struck me during the first round of covid jabs - junior colleague was about 100 yards away from one vaccination centre, but the NHS booked him into another and refused to change it. So it cost him over £10 to get 4 bus tickets.

    And I wish I could believe the NHS got a kickback from it rather than it all just being kinda sh*t.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931
    MikeL said:

    The result of the SNP leadership election is certainly going to provide great entertainment whichever way it goes.

    If Yousaf wins, SNP poll ratings will collapse, they'll lose dozens of seats at Westminster and Holyrood, and there will be no chance of Independence for the next 15 to 20 years.

    If Forbes wins, full scale internal civil war will break out within the SNP.

    If Forbes wins, the Greens could be major beneficiaries, particularly MSPs and MPs. Generally, though, ones that independence supporters wouldn’t miss.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705

    Foxy said:

    stodge said:

    Evening All :)

    There's a serious issue about the provision of public transport to rural and semi-rural areas. There's a statistic about the reduction in bus services outside London which is remarkable.

    Not being able to get a bus back to the village after 7pm has economic and cultural impacts. The young leave and the village becomes increasingly remote for those not in possession of a car.

    Perhaps it's time to get past this absurd notion of providing transport services for and at a profit and emphasise public need so communities aren't left isolated.

    Also, to ensure that rural communities are not just for retirees who want to escape to the country.
    Labour, LibDems and Greens should put reliable bus services at the core of their rural policy strategy.

    Our County Council (Con controlled) is about to stop our only bus service. I am sure it will be a major issue in the forthcoming Local Elections.

    Compared with HS2 it would be a pittance to keep such services going.
    It was one of Corbyn's best policies.
    I really like the idea of exploring demand by using scheduled taxis/mini-buses to see who will start using services if they are available.

    Reduce the cost of creating a service to as little as possible. And go for higher frequency over a big empty bus, once an hour.
    Was there not someone on here who regularly posted about their spreadsheets in trying to model the number of self-driving cars the country needed to make it workable as a public transportation system?

    Or was that an insane fever dream I once had?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,058
    edited February 2023
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931
    Kate Forbes now shorter odds on Smarkets than Humza Yousaf. I hope PBers got on when the talk was about her withdrawing.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,940
    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Evening All :)

    There's a serious issue about the provision of public transport to rural and semi-rural areas. There's a statistic about the reduction in bus services outside London which is remarkable.

    Not being able to get a bus back to the village after 7pm has economic and cultural impacts. The young leave and the village becomes increasingly remote for those not in possession of a car.

    Perhaps it's time to get past this absurd notion of providing transport services for and at a profit and emphasise public need so communities aren't left isolated.

    I now live in rural Essex. There is literally one bus a day here to Ongar, Harlow or Epping
    It's clear from you and other contributors there is a problem. What then is the solution? How would you increase services or do we need to think about other forms of community-accessible transport beyond buses?
    Unfortunately it is largely down to lack of demand. Most people living in rural areas are either retired pensioners or farmers. They just don't need to go to the nearest town or city more than once or twice a week.

    Hence the bus companies won't do more regular services, unless more families where the parents commute to work in the city and the children go to secondary school in the nearest town move there
    The problem is "rural" is increasingly "anything outside a city".

    Even a bus to a commuter town a relatively short distance outside a city is at high risk now. And it's not just farmers and pensioners using those.
    Albeit most commuter towns still have a railway station which most villages and rural areas don't
    I realise you wrote ‘most’ but the town where I live now doesn’t have a station. Nor does another not far away.
    For which blame Beeching.

    Almost all towns with populations over 25,000 will have a station still however
    Mine doesn't.
    The other issue is, of course, you can only commute to the places on the same line. Even if we had a station, I couldn't get to my work by train. As it would only go into Newcastle. Not the neighbouring town.
    Newcastle under Lyme has no station either. Must be the only large town in Staffordshire that doesn't.

    Can't think where the nearest convenient station would be either. Stoke's a bugger to get to except by train. Stone, maybe?
    Newcastle under Lyme had a railway station but it was closed by Beeching in 1964
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newcastle-under-Lyme_railway_station
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,839
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Evening All :)

    There's a serious issue about the provision of public transport to rural and semi-rural areas. There's a statistic about the reduction in bus services outside London which is remarkable.

    Not being able to get a bus back to the village after 7pm has economic and cultural impacts. The young leave and the village becomes increasingly remote for those not in possession of a car.

    Perhaps it's time to get past this absurd notion of providing transport services for and at a profit and emphasise public need so communities aren't left isolated.

    I now live in rural Essex. There is literally one bus a day here to Ongar, Harlow or Epping
    It's clear from you and other contributors there is a problem. What then is the solution? How would you increase services or do we need to think about other forms of community-accessible transport beyond buses?
    Unfortunately it is largely down to lack of demand. Most people living in rural areas are either retired pensioners or farmers. They just don't need to go to the nearest town or city more than once or twice a week.

    Hence the bus companies won't do more regular services, unless more families where the parents commute to work in the city and the children go to secondary school in the nearest town move there
    The problem is "rural" is increasingly "anything outside a city".

    Even a bus to a commuter town a relatively short distance outside a city is at high risk now. And it's not just farmers and pensioners using those.
    Albeit most commuter towns still have a railway station which most villages and rural areas don't
    I realise you wrote ‘most’ but the town where I live now doesn’t have a station. Nor does another not far away.
    Same here.
    And here.
    And here. Courtesy of Mr Beeching and the Conservative Party.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,839

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Evening All :)

    There's a serious issue about the provision of public transport to rural and semi-rural areas. There's a statistic about the reduction in bus services outside London which is remarkable.

    Not being able to get a bus back to the village after 7pm has economic and cultural impacts. The young leave and the village becomes increasingly remote for those not in possession of a car.

    Perhaps it's time to get past this absurd notion of providing transport services for and at a profit and emphasise public need so communities aren't left isolated.

    I now live in rural Essex. There is literally one bus a day here to Ongar, Harlow or Epping
    It's clear from you and other contributors there is a problem. What then is the solution? How would you increase services or do we need to think about other forms of community-accessible transport beyond buses?
    Unfortunately it is largely down to lack of demand. Most people living in rural areas are either retired pensioners or farmers. They just don't need to go to the nearest town or city more than once or twice a week.

    Hence the bus companies won't do more regular services, unless more families where the parents commute to work in the city and the children go to secondary school in the nearest town move there
    The problem is "rural" is increasingly "anything outside a city".

    Even a bus to a commuter town a relatively short distance outside a city is at high risk now. And it's not just farmers and pensioners using those.
    Albeit most commuter towns still have a railway station which most villages and rural areas don't
    Any PB nerds, I am told that they do exist, should go to https://timetableworld.com/ and compare the service provided to their community 50 years ago with that provided now.
    Fuck all as opposed to fuck all. But that is because your window is just after the peak of the Beeching cuts. 65 years would be fairer.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,750

    Kate Forbes now shorter odds on Smarkets than Humza Yousaf. I hope PBers got on when the talk was about her withdrawing.

    My impression is that Sturgeon, Swinney, et al, are desperate for her to lose. Wonder if they will intervene more strongly if it seems to be slipping away from Humza. Kate could have a real problem actually running the Govt if leading ministers won't serve. Things that have been said that can't be unsaid.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,717
    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Evening All :)

    There's a serious issue about the provision of public transport to rural and semi-rural areas. There's a statistic about the reduction in bus services outside London which is remarkable.

    Not being able to get a bus back to the village after 7pm has economic and cultural impacts. The young leave and the village becomes increasingly remote for those not in possession of a car.

    Perhaps it's time to get past this absurd notion of providing transport services for and at a profit and emphasise public need so communities aren't left isolated.

    I now live in rural Essex. There is literally one bus a day here to Ongar, Harlow or Epping
    It's clear from you and other contributors there is a problem. What then is the solution? How would you increase services or do we need to think about other forms of community-accessible transport beyond buses?
    Unfortunately it is largely down to lack of demand. Most people living in rural areas are either retired pensioners or farmers. They just don't need to go to the nearest town or city more than once or twice a week.

    Hence the bus companies won't do more regular services, unless more families where the parents commute to work in the city and the children go to secondary school in the nearest town move there
    The problem is "rural" is increasingly "anything outside a city".

    Even a bus to a commuter town a relatively short distance outside a city is at high risk now. And it's not just farmers and pensioners using those.
    Albeit most commuter towns still have a railway station which most villages and rural areas don't
    I realise you wrote ‘most’ but the town where I live now doesn’t have a station. Nor does another not far away.
    For which blame Beeching.

    Almost all towns with populations over 25,000 will have a station still however
    Mine doesn't.
    The other issue is, of course, you can only commute to the places on the same line. Even if we had a station, I couldn't get to my work by train. As it would only go into Newcastle. Not the neighbouring town.
    Newcastle under Lyme has no station either. Must be the only large town in Staffordshire that doesn't.

    Can't think where the nearest convenient station would be either. Stoke's a bugger to get to except by train. Stone, maybe?
    Crewe

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,839
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Evening All :)

    There's a serious issue about the provision of public transport to rural and semi-rural areas. There's a statistic about the reduction in bus services outside London which is remarkable.

    Not being able to get a bus back to the village after 7pm has economic and cultural impacts. The young leave and the village becomes increasingly remote for those not in possession of a car.

    Perhaps it's time to get past this absurd notion of providing transport services for and at a profit and emphasise public need so communities aren't left isolated.

    I now live in rural Essex. There is literally one bus a day here to Ongar, Harlow or Epping
    It's clear from you and other contributors there is a problem. What then is the solution? How would you increase services or do we need to think about other forms of community-accessible transport beyond buses?
    Unfortunately it is largely down to lack of demand. Most people living in rural areas are either retired pensioners or farmers. They just don't need to go to the nearest town or city more than once or twice a week.

    Hence the bus companies won't do more regular services, unless more families where the parents commute to work in the city and the children go to secondary school in the nearest town move there
    The problem is "rural" is increasingly "anything outside a city".

    Even a bus to a commuter town a relatively short distance outside a city is at high risk now. And it's not just farmers and pensioners using those.
    Albeit most commuter towns still have a railway station which most villages and rural areas don't
    I realise you wrote ‘most’ but the town where I live now doesn’t have a station. Nor does another not far away.
    For which blame Beeching.

    Almost all towns with populations over 25,000 will have a station still however
    Mine doesn't.
    The other issue is, of course, you can only commute to the places on the same line. Even if we had a station, I couldn't get to my work by train. As it would only go into Newcastle. Not the neighbouring town.
    Newcastle under Lyme has no station either. Must be the only large town in Staffordshire that doesn't.

    Can't think where the nearest convenient station would be either. Stoke's a bugger to get to except by train. Stone, maybe?
    Newcastle under Lyme had a railway station but it was closed by Beeching in 1964
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newcastle-under-Lyme_railway_station
    Well, yes, but I wasn't thinking about 1964. Missing a train by 59 years isn't really a lot of help.
    Mr Marples and his motorway building firm didn't help, though, in 1964, seeing as he was Minister of Transport. Dodgy Tories ...
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,039
    Carnyx said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Evening All :)

    There's a serious issue about the provision of public transport to rural and semi-rural areas. There's a statistic about the reduction in bus services outside London which is remarkable.

    Not being able to get a bus back to the village after 7pm has economic and cultural impacts. The young leave and the village becomes increasingly remote for those not in possession of a car.

    Perhaps it's time to get past this absurd notion of providing transport services for and at a profit and emphasise public need so communities aren't left isolated.

    I now live in rural Essex. There is literally one bus a day here to Ongar, Harlow or Epping
    It's clear from you and other contributors there is a problem. What then is the solution? How would you increase services or do we need to think about other forms of community-accessible transport beyond buses?
    Unfortunately it is largely down to lack of demand. Most people living in rural areas are either retired pensioners or farmers. They just don't need to go to the nearest town or city more than once or twice a week.

    Hence the bus companies won't do more regular services, unless more families where the parents commute to work in the city and the children go to secondary school in the nearest town move there
    The problem is "rural" is increasingly "anything outside a city".

    Even a bus to a commuter town a relatively short distance outside a city is at high risk now. And it's not just farmers and pensioners using those.
    Albeit most commuter towns still have a railway station which most villages and rural areas don't
    I realise you wrote ‘most’ but the town where I live now doesn’t have a station. Nor does another not far away.
    Same here.
    And here.
    And here. Courtesy of Mr Beeching and the Conservative Party.
    The report was commissioned and published under the Conservatives, but most of his cuts were implemented under Labour.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,839
    Fishing said:

    Carnyx said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Evening All :)

    There's a serious issue about the provision of public transport to rural and semi-rural areas. There's a statistic about the reduction in bus services outside London which is remarkable.

    Not being able to get a bus back to the village after 7pm has economic and cultural impacts. The young leave and the village becomes increasingly remote for those not in possession of a car.

    Perhaps it's time to get past this absurd notion of providing transport services for and at a profit and emphasise public need so communities aren't left isolated.

    I now live in rural Essex. There is literally one bus a day here to Ongar, Harlow or Epping
    It's clear from you and other contributors there is a problem. What then is the solution? How would you increase services or do we need to think about other forms of community-accessible transport beyond buses?
    Unfortunately it is largely down to lack of demand. Most people living in rural areas are either retired pensioners or farmers. They just don't need to go to the nearest town or city more than once or twice a week.

    Hence the bus companies won't do more regular services, unless more families where the parents commute to work in the city and the children go to secondary school in the nearest town move there
    The problem is "rural" is increasingly "anything outside a city".

    Even a bus to a commuter town a relatively short distance outside a city is at high risk now. And it's not just farmers and pensioners using those.
    Albeit most commuter towns still have a railway station which most villages and rural areas don't
    I realise you wrote ‘most’ but the town where I live now doesn’t have a station. Nor does another not far away.
    Same here.
    And here.
    And here. Courtesy of Mr Beeching and the Conservative Party.
    The report was commissioned and published under the Conservatives, but most of his cuts were implemented under Labour.
    So? Still a Tory idea in the first place. Take the credit, why don't you? He certainly did.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,706
    Forbes just gone favourite on Betfair in last 30 mins.

    Quite significant move - may imply new polling?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931

    Kate Forbes now shorter odds on Smarkets than Humza Yousaf. I hope PBers got on when the talk was about her withdrawing.

    My impression is that Sturgeon, Swinney, et al, are desperate for her to lose. Wonder if they will intervene more strongly if it seems to be slipping away from Humza. Kate could have a real problem actually running the Govt if leading ministers won't serve. Things that have been said that can't be unsaid.
    “Leading ministers “ like John Swinney, Shirley-Anne Sommerville and Shona Robison won’t be picked if the new First Minister has any sense.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Evening All :)

    There's a serious issue about the provision of public transport to rural and semi-rural areas. There's a statistic about the reduction in bus services outside London which is remarkable.

    Not being able to get a bus back to the village after 7pm has economic and cultural impacts. The young leave and the village becomes increasingly remote for those not in possession of a car.

    Perhaps it's time to get past this absurd notion of providing transport services for and at a profit and emphasise public need so communities aren't left isolated.

    I now live in rural Essex. There is literally one bus a day here to Ongar, Harlow or Epping
    It's clear from you and other contributors there is a problem. What then is the solution? How would you increase services or do we need to think about other forms of community-accessible transport beyond buses?
    Unfortunately it is largely down to lack of demand. Most people living in rural areas are either retired pensioners or farmers. They just don't need to go to the nearest town or city more than once or twice a week.

    Hence the bus companies won't do more regular services, unless more families where the parents commute to work in the city and the children go to secondary school in the nearest town move there
    The problem is "rural" is increasingly "anything outside a city".

    Even a bus to a commuter town a relatively short distance outside a city is at high risk now. And it's not just farmers and pensioners using those.
    Albeit most commuter towns still have a railway station which most villages and rural areas don't
    I realise you wrote ‘most’ but the town where I live now doesn’t have a station. Nor does another not far away.
    For which blame Beeching.

    Almost all towns with populations over 25,000 will have a station still however
    Mine doesn't.
    The other issue is, of course, you can only commute to the places on the same line. Even if we had a station, I couldn't get to my work by train. As it would only go into Newcastle. Not the neighbouring town.
    Newcastle under Lyme has no station either. Must be the only large town in Staffordshire that doesn't.

    Can't think where the nearest convenient station would be either. Stoke's a bugger to get to except by train. Stone, maybe?
    Newcastle under Lyme had a railway station but it was closed by Beeching in 1964
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newcastle-under-Lyme_railway_station
    Well, yes, but I wasn't thinking about 1964. Missing a train by 59 years isn't really a lot of help.
    You know those "letter posted in 1947 makes it to its destination" good-news stories? Maybe it'll happen with your train.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Evening All :)

    There's a serious issue about the provision of public transport to rural and semi-rural areas. There's a statistic about the reduction in bus services outside London which is remarkable.

    Not being able to get a bus back to the village after 7pm has economic and cultural impacts. The young leave and the village becomes increasingly remote for those not in possession of a car.

    Perhaps it's time to get past this absurd notion of providing transport services for and at a profit and emphasise public need so communities aren't left isolated.

    I now live in rural Essex. There is literally one bus a day here to Ongar, Harlow or Epping
    It's clear from you and other contributors there is a problem. What then is the solution? How would you increase services or do we need to think about other forms of community-accessible transport beyond buses?
    Unfortunately it is largely down to lack of demand. Most people living in rural areas are either retired pensioners or farmers. They just don't need to go to the nearest town or city more than once or twice a week.

    Hence the bus companies won't do more regular services, unless more families where the parents commute to work in the city and the children go to secondary school in the nearest town move there
    The problem is "rural" is increasingly "anything outside a city".

    Even a bus to a commuter town a relatively short distance outside a city is at high risk now. And it's not just farmers and pensioners using those.
    Albeit most commuter towns still have a railway station which most villages and rural areas don't
    I realise you wrote ‘most’ but the town where I live now doesn’t have a station. Nor does another not far away.
    For which blame Beeching.

    Almost all towns with populations over 25,000 will have a station still however
    Mine doesn't.
    The other issue is, of course, you can only commute to the places on the same line. Even if we had a station, I couldn't get to my work by train. As it would only go into Newcastle. Not the neighbouring town.
    Newcastle under Lyme has no station either. Must be the only large town in Staffordshire that doesn't.

    Can't think where the nearest convenient station would be either. Stoke's a bugger to get to except by train. Stone, maybe?
    Newcastle under Lyme had a railway station but it was closed by Beeching in 1964
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newcastle-under-Lyme_railway_station
    Well, yes, but I wasn't thinking about 1964. Missing a train by 59 years isn't really a lot of help.
    HYUFD often forgets it's not the 1950s anymore.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Scenario:
    I had every intention of voting - I always do.
    On my way home from work, as I've always done.
    But I forgot to take my passport to work, and didn't have any other ID on me.
    So they turned me away at the polling station.
    Once I got home, I really couldn't be arsed to go out again and vote.


    I could imagine this, or something similar, playing out frequently.

    Yes, I was just thinking about this, and I think this has been lost in the focus on people who don't have ID not being able to vote at all (bad as that is):

    People are generally only vaguely aware of the political process, so many will not register that they need ID now. So they'll turn up to vote without it.
    Some of those will cause delays and turmoil at polling stations arguing with polling station staff, and party tellers.
    Many will go off home and not bother coming back.
    Others will come back to vote, and cause unexpected queues and delays at the end of a very fraught day, not just for the staff but for other voters.

    I have a gut feeling this will end quite badly for the whole political process.
    I hope there is plenty of publicity in the lead up. I expect there will be.

    It’s also for local elections, so if there are significant issues, at least it’s not a general election.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    edited February 2023

    kjh said:

    Well I have just made a valiant effort to set fire to my house. Threw a log onto my newly lit stove and I had burning cones all over my carpet.

    Whoops.

    Several decades ago, my dad demolished a high-voltage substation. The floor of the building was made of hardwood cubic blocks, probably about two inches on a side. (*) He disposed of most of them, but kept a hundred or so as firewood in our wood store. Each block was rather heavy. Come winter, he started the first fire of the year. Once it was going, he fetched one of the blocks and chucked it on.

    After a few minutes, flames were roaring up the chimney, and out of the fireplace and up the wall into the room. He and my brother got some tongs and got the block out onto a metal tray, then chucked it through the window into the garden, where it burnt merrily away for a long time.

    On closer examination, it turned out that over the years, oil had leaked out of the wet transformers and onto the floor, where it had seeped into the blocks.

    We ended up chopping them into tiny pieces, which made brilliant firelighters. If somewhat smelly...

    (*) I have no idea why the floor was wooden, given fire risk. Vibration? Lack of risk of short-circuits? Static prevention?
    I have (what I am told anyway) an Austrian Pine in my front garden. It has a girth of 3 metres, is twice the height of my house (guess) and a huge canopy. We use the cones as firelighters and supply, what appears to be the rest of the world, with these firelighters as well. They also appear to burn well on the carpet.

    I burn both hardwood and softwood from my garden after I have seasoned it. I have various pines, ash, oak, walnut, holly, apple, pyracanthas, laurel, yew and various others. The softwood is, as expected, lighter than the hardwood, with one exception. The Austrian Pine weighs a ton. When chopped it has a heady aroma (Leon would pay good money for it) that is very addictive. I once put a log in my stove. That is 30 minutes of my life I won't get back as I waited for it to die down, wondering whether my house was going to catch fire. 5+ years on it is now burnable. At 2 years it was like petrol.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,592
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Evening All :)

    There's a serious issue about the provision of public transport to rural and semi-rural areas. There's a statistic about the reduction in bus services outside London which is remarkable.

    Not being able to get a bus back to the village after 7pm has economic and cultural impacts. The young leave and the village becomes increasingly remote for those not in possession of a car.

    Perhaps it's time to get past this absurd notion of providing transport services for and at a profit and emphasise public need so communities aren't left isolated.

    I now live in rural Essex. There is literally one bus a day here to Ongar, Harlow or Epping
    It's clear from you and other contributors there is a problem. What then is the solution? How would you increase services or do we need to think about other forms of community-accessible transport beyond buses?
    Unfortunately it is largely down to lack of demand. Most people living in rural areas are either retired pensioners or farmers. They just don't need to go to the nearest town or city more than once or twice a week.

    Hence the bus companies won't do more regular services, unless more families where the parents commute to work in the city and the children go to secondary school in the nearest town move there
    The problem is "rural" is increasingly "anything outside a city".

    Even a bus to a commuter town a relatively short distance outside a city is at high risk now. And it's not just farmers and pensioners using those.
    Albeit most commuter towns still have a railway station which most villages and rural areas don't
    I realise you wrote ‘most’ but the town where I live now doesn’t have a station. Nor does another not far away.
    For which blame Beeching.

    Almost all towns with populations over 25,000 will have a station still however
    Mine doesn't.
    The other issue is, of course, you can only commute to the places on the same line. Even if we had a station, I couldn't get to my work by train. As it would only go into Newcastle. Not the neighbouring town.
    Newcastle under Lyme has no station either. Must be the only large town in Staffordshire that doesn't.

    Can't think where the nearest convenient station would be either. Stoke's a bugger to get to except by train. Stone, maybe?
    Newcastle under Lyme had a railway station but it was closed by Beeching in 1964
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newcastle-under-Lyme_railway_station
    Well, yes, but I wasn't thinking about 1964. Missing a train by 59 years isn't really a lot of help.
    Two points about Beeching:

    *) His report was just a report; politicians did not have to follow the recommendations (Thatcher did not follow the Serpell reports), and some lines that were due to close remained open; and some that were due to remain open were closed. Due to politics. Don't blame Beeching; blame the governments.

    *) More railways closed under Labour than under the Conservatives. They could have stopped the closures at any point if they wanted (and IIRC, they campaigned against the Beeching cuts in 1964).
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    So. What happened to the Harry and Meghan split?
    Or did I dream that?
  • dixiedean said:

    So. What happened to the Harry and Meghan split?
    Or did I dream that?

    I was just about to ask that. @MarqueeMark - still on?
  • MikeL said:

    Forbes just gone favourite on Betfair in last 30 mins.

    Quite significant move - may imply new polling?

    A number of heads on here will explode if she wins.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    edited February 2023

    dixiedean said:

    So. What happened to the Harry and Meghan split?
    Or did I dream that?

    I was just about to ask that. @MarqueeMark - still on?
    Maybe the "Windsor agreement" isn't what we think it is. Tongue-in-cheek.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,750

    Kate Forbes now shorter odds on Smarkets than Humza Yousaf. I hope PBers got on when the talk was about her withdrawing.

    My impression is that Sturgeon, Swinney, et al, are desperate for her to lose. Wonder if they will intervene more strongly if it seems to be slipping away from Humza. Kate could have a real problem actually running the Govt if leading ministers won't serve. Things that have been said that can't be unsaid.
    “Leading ministers “ like John Swinney, Shirley-Anne Sommerville and Shona Robison won’t be picked if the new First Minister has any sense.
    Only if it's Kate...

    MP and MSP (106 available) endorsements so far are:

    Yousaf: 32
    Forbes: 9
    Regan: 1

    Source: https://ballotbox.scot/scottish-parliament/snp-leadership-election-2023
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,717
    Beeching was the first British public persona in my ken to have been referred to as "Dr". I'm sure a good fraction of the population thought he was applying some kind of medicine to the railway system. In fact he was an engineer/physicist whose thesis was on electron diffraction patterns applied to evaporated metal films.
  • Some talk the Ukrainians have conducted a successful counter-attack north of Bakhmut and that they have encircled Russian forces. Fingers crossed.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    edited February 2023
    geoffw said:

    Beeching was the first British public persona in my ken to have been referred to as "Dr". I'm sure a good fraction of the population thought he was applying some kind of medicine to the railway system. In fact he was an engineer/physicist whose thesis was on electron diffraction patterns applied to evaporated metal films.

    Succeeded by Liam Fox. What a lineage.

    Edit: And what about Crippen?
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,039
    edited February 2023

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Evening All :)

    There's a serious issue about the provision of public transport to rural and semi-rural areas. There's a statistic about the reduction in bus services outside London which is remarkable.

    Not being able to get a bus back to the village after 7pm has economic and cultural impacts. The young leave and the village becomes increasingly remote for those not in possession of a car.

    Perhaps it's time to get past this absurd notion of providing transport services for and at a profit and emphasise public need so communities aren't left isolated.

    I now live in rural Essex. There is literally one bus a day here to Ongar, Harlow or Epping
    It's clear from you and other contributors there is a problem. What then is the solution? How would you increase services or do we need to think about other forms of community-accessible transport beyond buses?
    Unfortunately it is largely down to lack of demand. Most people living in rural areas are either retired pensioners or farmers. They just don't need to go to the nearest town or city more than once or twice a week.

    Hence the bus companies won't do more regular services, unless more families where the parents commute to work in the city and the children go to secondary school in the nearest town move there
    The problem is "rural" is increasingly "anything outside a city".

    Even a bus to a commuter town a relatively short distance outside a city is at high risk now. And it's not just farmers and pensioners using those.
    Albeit most commuter towns still have a railway station which most villages and rural areas don't
    I realise you wrote ‘most’ but the town where I live now doesn’t have a station. Nor does another not far away.
    For which blame Beeching.

    Almost all towns with populations over 25,000 will have a station still however
    Mine doesn't.
    The other issue is, of course, you can only commute to the places on the same line. Even if we had a station, I couldn't get to my work by train. As it would only go into Newcastle. Not the neighbouring town.
    Newcastle under Lyme has no station either. Must be the only large town in Staffordshire that doesn't.

    Can't think where the nearest convenient station would be either. Stoke's a bugger to get to except by train. Stone, maybe?
    Newcastle under Lyme had a railway station but it was closed by Beeching in 1964
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newcastle-under-Lyme_railway_station
    Well, yes, but I wasn't thinking about 1964. Missing a train by 59 years isn't really a lot of help.
    Two points about Beeching:

    *) His report was just a report; politicians did not have to follow the recommendations (Thatcher did not follow the Serpell reports), and some lines that were due to close remained open; and some that were due to remain open were closed. Due to politics. Don't blame Beeching; blame the governments.

    *) More railways closed under Labour than under the Conservatives. They could have stopped the closures at any point if they wanted (and IIRC, they campaigned against the Beeching cuts in 1964).
    No country could stand forever against economic reality, no matter how much sentimental drivel people spout about rural railways transporting mostly fresh air from nowhere to nowhere (at huge expense to taxpayers, though they never mention that). The French and Belgians started closing uneconomic lines in the face of competition from cars in 1938. The West Germans and Americans, like us, made their big wave of cuts in the 1960s though. Spain did not have its 'Beeching' moment on the broad-gauge until the 1980s - it is said Gen. Franco resisted closures, viewing them in old military strategic terms. Most of the narrow-gauge systems had gone by the 1960s.

    It is rather telling that the countries where the reckoning was most delayed were the Stalinist dictatorships of Eastern Europe.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,717
    edited February 2023
    delete, misunderstood
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,839
    DougSeal said:

    dixiedean said:

    So. What happened to the Harry and Meghan split?
    Or did I dream that?

    I was just about to ask that. @MarqueeMark - still on?
    I think they may have already split but the press are not reporting it out of respect for their privacy.
    Revolutionary if true.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    DougSeal said:

    dixiedean said:

    So. What happened to the Harry and Meghan split?
    Or did I dream that?

    I was just about to ask that. @MarqueeMark - still on?
    I think they may have already split but the press are not reporting it out of respect for their privacy.
    Well yes. Red top altruism is baked in.
  • Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    dixiedean said:

    So. What happened to the Harry and Meghan split?
    Or did I dream that?

    I was just about to ask that. @MarqueeMark - still on?
    I think they may have already split but the press are not reporting it out of respect for their privacy.
    Revolutionary if true.
    "A little revolution now and then is a healthy thing, don't you think?"
  • geoffw said:

    delete, misunderstood

    Famous Brits who used the title Doctor outside a medical context, I think.

    David Owen?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361

    geoffw said:

    delete, misunderstood

    Famous Brits who used the title Doctor outside a medical context, I think.

    David Owen?
    The Doctor.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370

    geoffw said:

    delete, misunderstood

    Famous Brits who used the title Doctor outside a medical context, I think.

    David Owen?
    The Doctor.
    Who?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    edited February 2023

    geoffw said:

    delete, misunderstood

    Famous Brits who used the title Doctor outside a medical context, I think.

    David Owen?
    The Doctor.
    Dr. Livingstone, I presume?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361

    Some talk the Ukrainians have conducted a successful counter-attack north of Bakhmut and that they have encircled Russian forces. Fingers crossed.

    At least one of the videos that has been posted claiming to be recent reinforcements for Bakhmut is from last autumn, on the basis of the vegetation visible.

    I'm fairly certain that if the Ukrainians were going to make a counteroffensive in an attempt to hold Bakhmut, they wouldn't have left it so late. But a bit of misinformation to cover a retreat - that's quite possible.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,717

    geoffw said:

    delete, misunderstood

    Famous Brits who used the title Doctor outside a medical context, I think.

    David Owen?
    Yebbut Beeching was the first to my knowledge. It's astonishing to me that he was given such a wide brief and free rein on the railways. His working background was in ICI and armaments during the war.

  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,526


    Voters who are interested enough to vote in local elections may well be clued up enough to have organised their ID. Negative reactions may be more evident at the next GE when less engaged voters try to vote, only to be told that they should have known, as ID has been in place for two years.

    I'm finding that around half the people intending to vote aren't aware of the issue - and this is in a prosperous Surrey town. Might change by polling day, of course, but there will certainly be cases of people unable to vote because they weren't aware of it and don't want to go home to get ID.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,839
    edited February 2023
    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    delete, misunderstood

    Famous Brits who used the title Doctor outside a medical context, I think.

    David Owen?
    Yebbut Beeching was the first to my knowledge. It's astonishing to me that he was given such a wide brief and free rein on the railways. His working background was in ICI and armaments during the war.

    Is it so astonishing? The combination of a motorway profiteer in charge, and a bureaucrat who knew ***** all about railways, was ideal.

    ISTR he didn't even grasp the concept of a feeder line making more income than was ascribed to it alone.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,316

    kjh said:

    Well I have just made a valiant effort to set fire to my house. Threw a log onto my newly lit stove and I had burning cones all over my carpet.

    Whoops.

    Several decades ago, my dad demolished a high-voltage substation. The floor of the building was made of hardwood cubic blocks, probably about two inches on a side. (*) He disposed of most of them, but kept a hundred or so as firewood in our wood store. Each block was rather heavy. Come winter, he started the first fire of the year. Once it was going, he fetched one of the blocks and chucked it on.

    After a few minutes, flames were roaring up the chimney, and out of the fireplace and up the wall into the room. He and my brother got some tongs and got the block out onto a metal tray, then chucked it through the window into the garden, where it burnt merrily away for a long time.

    On closer examination, it turned out that over the years, oil had leaked out of the wet transformers and onto the floor, where it had seeped into the blocks.

    We ended up chopping them into tiny pieces, which made brilliant firelighters. If somewhat smelly...

    (*) I have no idea why the floor was wooden, given fire risk. Vibration? Lack of risk of short-circuits? Static prevention?
    I am full of horror at the thought of what that oil was. There is a reason that transformer oil is causing all kinds of fun with site clean up in the US.

    Reminds me of meeting online a B26 navigator from WWII, who told us how he and his friends used to fill their lighters with the super octane aviation gasoline.

    At the oil company I worked at (one of the original companies that invented the stuff) wee would refuse my get requests for some WWII 150 octane stuff, from the warbird community. The answer was always no - H&S would never allow us to ship that witches brew these days.

    IIRC Toluene and Benzene were just where the fun started. Those two give you liver cancer with remarkable reliability. The whole mixture is (again IIRC) officially - teratogenic, carcinogenic, mutagenic, poisonous. In addition to the usual explosive and inflammable.
    Reading the Wikipedia page for transformer oil, you’re not kidding!

    The “oil” soaked into the wood could easily have been polychlorinated biphenyls:

    ”Polychlorinated biphenyls (PCB) are synthetic dielectrics first made over a century ago and found to have desirable properties that led to their widespread use.[9] Polychlorinated biphenyls were formerly used as transformer oil, since they have high dielectric strength and are not flammable. Unfortunately, they are also toxic, bioaccumulative, not at all biodegradable, and difficult to dispose of safely. When burned, they form even more toxic products, such as chlorinated dioxins and chlorinated dibenzofurans.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformer_oil
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,839
    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    delete, misunderstood

    Famous Brits who used the title Doctor outside a medical context, I think.

    David Owen?
    Yebbut Beeching was the first to my knowledge. It's astonishing to me that he was given such a wide brief and free rein on the railways. His working background was in ICI and armaments during the war.

    Technically, Dr Crippen wasn't a real MD ... but one could start with Dr Johnson, S. of Lichfield.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    edited February 2023
    The Beeching cuts were good - the issue was that we sold off the land. There are quite a number of routes that were non-viable then but would be now. Bedford-Cambridge, Abingdon-Oxford are two major examples (notably the latter could still be re-opened relatively easily due to our pathetic NIMBYism, and would have been if we had a government that actually wanted growth).
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    edited February 2023


    Voters who are interested enough to vote in local elections may well be clued up enough to have organised their ID. Negative reactions may be more evident at the next GE when less engaged voters try to vote, only to be told that they should have known, as ID has been in place for two years.

    I'm finding that around half the people intending to vote aren't aware of the issue - and this is in a prosperous Surrey town. Might change by polling day, of course, but there will certainly be cases of people unable to vote because they weren't aware of it and don't want to go home to get ID.
    ..and they will not be happy.

    The media are going to be all over it. HMG will have some explaining to do I suspect.

    Queues at polling stations could be another issue (although less likely, given it's local elections).

    If Labour were doing this the tabloids would be all over it like a rash screaming "Our Votes Are Being Stolen!".
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    I'm thinking of making a silent protest by turning up at the polling station without an ID card, and then walking out again.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    Carnyx said:

    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    delete, misunderstood

    Famous Brits who used the title Doctor outside a medical context, I think.

    David Owen?
    Yebbut Beeching was the first to my knowledge. It's astonishing to me that he was given such a wide brief and free rein on the railways. His working background was in ICI and armaments during the war.

    Technically, Dr Crippen wasn't a real MD ... but one could start with Dr Johnson, S. of Lichfield.
    Dr. Johnson wins it I think.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,839
    Andy_JS said:

    I'm thinking of making a silent protest by turning up at the polling station without an ID card, and then walking out again.

    No, no. You have to do an ERG by rolling on the floor, screaming at the top of your voice, and flinging your toys all over the room, that you waaaaaana vote and you won't stop till you get it.

    If it's good enough for our most senior and respected Members of Parliament ...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,839
    edited February 2023

    Carnyx said:

    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    delete, misunderstood

    Famous Brits who used the title Doctor outside a medical context, I think.

    David Owen?
    Yebbut Beeching was the first to my knowledge. It's astonishing to me that he was given such a wide brief and free rein on the railways. His working background was in ICI and armaments during the war.

    Technically, Dr Crippen wasn't a real MD ... but one could start with Dr Johnson, S. of Lichfield.
    Dr. Johnson wins it I think.
    I did wonder about Dr Donne but he's not nearly so often mentioned. Dr Fell is another runner, though. My mum used to recite to me a little poem about Dr Fell.

    Edit: found it.

    I do not like thee, Doctor Fell,
    The reason why – I cannot tell;
    But this I know, and know full well,
    I do not like thee, Doctor Fell.
  • This cricket stat has blown my mind.

    Just imagine how many more runs Kane Williamson would have got, if he hadn't played so many limited series, if he'd had the chance to really bed into a series and cash in when acclimatised.

    He has *never* played in a series of more than three matches.


    https://twitter.com/Mendelpol/status/1629958441090400256

    https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/277906.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Foxy said:

    stodge said:

    Evening All :)

    There's a serious issue about the provision of public transport to rural and semi-rural areas. There's a statistic about the reduction in bus services outside London which is remarkable.

    Not being able to get a bus back to the village after 7pm has economic and cultural impacts. The young leave and the village becomes increasingly remote for those not in possession of a car.

    Perhaps it's time to get past this absurd notion of providing transport services for and at a profit and emphasise public need so communities aren't left isolated.

    Also, to ensure that rural communities are not just for retirees who want to escape to the country.
    Labour, LibDems and Greens should put reliable bus services at the core of their rural policy strategy.

    Our County Council (Con controlled) is about to stop our only bus service. I am sure it will be a major issue in the forthcoming Local Elections.

    Compared with HS2 it would be a pittance to keep such services going.
    Maybe the Labour party could do something in Wales ... oh, they are, they are busy cutting bus services.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-64650058
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,831

    Some talk the Ukrainians have conducted a successful counter-attack north of Bakhmut and that they have encircled Russian forces. Fingers crossed.

    At least one of the videos that has been posted claiming to be recent reinforcements for Bakhmut is from last autumn, on the basis of the vegetation visible.

    I'm fairly certain that if the Ukrainians were going to make a counteroffensive in an attempt to hold Bakhmut, they wouldn't have left it so late. But a bit of misinformation to cover a retreat - that's quite possible.
    Denis Davydov was talking about bursting one of the dams to cut off the Russia troops. Whatever the droughts elsewhere in Europe they don't seem short of water in Ukraine.
  • Chameleon said:

    The Beeching cuts were good - the issue was that we sold off the land. There are quite a number of routes that were non-viable then but would be now. Bedford-Cambridge, Abingdon-Oxford are two major examples (notably the latter could still be re-opened relatively easily due to our pathetic NIMBYism, and would have been if we had a government that actually wanted growth).

    Beeching was the worst railway vandal in history!
  • Andy_JS said:

    I'm thinking of making a silent protest by turning up at the polling station without an ID card, and then walking out again.

    Like it!

    Seriously though, do you not think this one could backfire on the government? People may well vote against it in protest.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275

    MikeL said:

    Forbes just gone favourite on Betfair in last 30 mins.

    Quite significant move - may imply new polling?

    A number of heads on here will explode if she wins.
    As a Labour supporter some bible basher turning off the SNPs core support can only be good news .
  • Carnyx said:

    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    delete, misunderstood

    Famous Brits who used the title Doctor outside a medical context, I think.

    David Owen?
    Yebbut Beeching was the first to my knowledge. It's astonishing to me that he was given such a wide brief and free rein on the railways. His working background was in ICI and armaments during the war.

    Is it so astonishing? The combination of a motorway profiteer in charge, and a bureaucrat who knew ***** all about railways, was ideal.

    ISTR he didn't even grasp the concept of a feeder line making more income than was ascribed to it alone.
    Yes, I remember a friend of mine telling me of the plan to close Scarborough station because so few tickets were sold there. The notion that a lot of people bought return tickets to the famous resort didn't seem to have occurred to some executives.

    That's the kind of thinking that's made this country what it is today.
    Amazing what you can miss when you know what the correct answer is.

    Quite a few of the Beeching cuts were of lines that didn't and couldn't pay their way, but there were others where the lack of effort to try and improve viability was pretty depressing.

    And then the usual British thing... Gain efficiency by cutting resilience.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,839

    Chameleon said:

    The Beeching cuts were good - the issue was that we sold off the land. There are quite a number of routes that were non-viable then but would be now. Bedford-Cambridge, Abingdon-Oxford are two major examples (notably the latter could still be re-opened relatively easily due to our pathetic NIMBYism, and would have been if we had a government that actually wanted growth).

    Beeching was the worst railway vandal in history!
    Even worse than General Sherman?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,839

    Carnyx said:

    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    delete, misunderstood

    Famous Brits who used the title Doctor outside a medical context, I think.

    David Owen?
    Yebbut Beeching was the first to my knowledge. It's astonishing to me that he was given such a wide brief and free rein on the railways. His working background was in ICI and armaments during the war.

    Is it so astonishing? The combination of a motorway profiteer in charge, and a bureaucrat who knew ***** all about railways, was ideal.

    ISTR he didn't even grasp the concept of a feeder line making more income than was ascribed to it alone.
    Yes, I remember a friend of mine telling me of the plan to close Scarborough station because so few tickets were sold there. The notion that a lot of people bought return tickets to the famous resort didn't seem to have occurred to some executives.

    That's the kind of thinking that's made this country what it is today.
    Amazing what you can miss when you know what the correct answer is.

    Quite a few of the Beeching cuts were of lines that didn't and couldn't pay their way, but there were others where the lack of effort to try and improve viability was pretty depressing.

    And then the usual British thing... Gain efficiency by cutting resilience.
    Quite. The Okehampton to Plymouth line, and the line from Edinburgh through Melrose and St Boswells to Berwick, would have been most valuable in heavy weather conditions, or closures for engineering of the presentday main lines.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705

    Andy_JS said:

    I'm thinking of making a silent protest by turning up at the polling station without an ID card, and then walking out again.

    Like it!

    Seriously though, do you not think this one could backfire on the government? People may well vote against it in protest.
    Well, only if they've got the right ID...
  • Some talk the Ukrainians have conducted a successful counter-attack north of Bakhmut and that they have encircled Russian forces. Fingers crossed.

    At least one of the videos that has been posted claiming to be recent reinforcements for Bakhmut is from last autumn, on the basis of the vegetation visible.

    I'm fairly certain that if the Ukrainians were going to make a counteroffensive in an attempt to hold Bakhmut, they wouldn't have left it so late. But a bit of misinformation to cover a retreat - that's quite possible.
    Denis Davydov was talking about bursting one of the dams to cut off the Russia troops. Whatever the droughts elsewhere in Europe they don't seem short of water in Ukraine.
    Isn't the point about Bakhmut that it is of little military significance? I believe the Russians want it just so they can claim a victory somewhere, but it doesn't really help their war aims.

    Rather reminds me of Tobruk, where my old man was wounded. It made no sense to try and hold it, but Churchill insisted. Hmmmm......
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    dixiedean said:

    So. What happened to the Harry and Meghan split?
    Or did I dream that?

    I have no information on this, but I think it very plausible.

    Because Meghan (whatever other qualities she possesses) does seem to me to be clever.

    And Harry (whatever other qualities he possesses) does seem to me to be stupid. Not as stupid as his Uncle Andrew, but still pretty damn thick.
  • dixiedean said:

    So. What happened to the Harry and Meghan split?
    Or did I dream that?

    I have no information on this, but I think it very plausible.

    Because Meghan (whatever other qualities she possesses) does seem to me to be clever.

    And Harry (whatever other qualities he possesses) does seem to me to be stupid. Not as stupid as his Uncle Andrew, but still pretty damn thick.
    Well, let's face it, they didn't have to pass many exams to get their jobs.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,839
    nico679 said:

    MikeL said:

    Forbes just gone favourite on Betfair in last 30 mins.

    Quite significant move - may imply new polling?

    A number of heads on here will explode if she wins.
    As a Labour supporter some bible basher turning off the SNPs core support can only be good news .
    Hmm. You need to think about the competition. Greens on the left already, Tories on the right, and SNP moving closer to Labour? Rremember muich of the Labour vote is pro-indy, and if the SNP moves right to overlap with Labour, and SKS retains his Brexiter right wing shtick to appeal in England, things get very badly squashed like an accident in a fruit lorry.
  • Andy_JS said:

    I'm thinking of making a silent protest by turning up at the polling station without an ID card, and then walking out again.

    Like it!

    Seriously though, do you not think this one could backfire on the government? People may well vote against it in protest.
    Well, only if they've got the right ID...
    Don't want to get overly serious over what I think is minor issue, but I think there must be a chance of a number of voters stomping back home to get their DI and returning to vote rather differently to how they first intended.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,657

    geoffw said:

    delete, misunderstood

    Famous Brits who used the title Doctor outside a medical context, I think.

    David Owen?
    He is a medical Doctor, neurology I believe.

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269

    Some talk the Ukrainians have conducted a successful counter-attack north of Bakhmut and that they have encircled Russian forces. Fingers crossed.

    At least one of the videos that has been posted claiming to be recent reinforcements for Bakhmut is from last autumn, on the basis of the vegetation visible.

    I'm fairly certain that if the Ukrainians were going to make a counteroffensive in an attempt to hold Bakhmut, they wouldn't have left it so late. But a bit of misinformation to cover a retreat - that's quite possible.
    Denis Davydov was talking about bursting one of the dams to cut off the Russia troops. Whatever the droughts elsewhere in Europe they don't seem short of water in Ukraine.
    Isn't the point about Bakhmut that it is of little military significance? I believe the Russians want it just so they can claim a victory somewhere, but it doesn't really help their war aims.

    Rather reminds me of Tobruk, where my old man was wounded. It made no sense to try and hold it, but Churchill insisted. Hmmmm......
    Tobruk actually made some sense. Rommel was fighting at the end of a madly long supply chain. Capturing a port to shorten it was a massive thing for him.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    dixiedean said:

    So. What happened to the Harry and Meghan split?
    Or did I dream that?

    Where have you been?...

    "Harry & Meghan will 'SPLIT' before wedding says psychic who even knows WHEN"

    https://twitter.com/dailystar/status/955105186552467456?s=20
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,839

    dixiedean said:

    So. What happened to the Harry and Meghan split?
    Or did I dream that?

    I have no information on this, but I think it very plausible.

    Because Meghan (whatever other qualities she possesses) does seem to me to be clever.

    And Harry (whatever other qualities he possesses) does seem to me to be stupid. Not as stupid as his Uncle Andrew, but still pretty damn thick.
    Well, let's face it, they didn't have to pass many exams to get their jobs.
    Not fair. Being an AH-64 pilot does need some attention to coursework.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,831
    If you want to suppress voters you need to be quite subtle about it. Whatever the motives this looks like a complete mess for the government. Best for the to row back now. My guess is any benefit they get from a reduced Labour turnout will be outweighed by a sense that the government has made a mess or worse.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,831

    Some talk the Ukrainians have conducted a successful counter-attack north of Bakhmut and that they have encircled Russian forces. Fingers crossed.

    At least one of the videos that has been posted claiming to be recent reinforcements for Bakhmut is from last autumn, on the basis of the vegetation visible.

    I'm fairly certain that if the Ukrainians were going to make a counteroffensive in an attempt to hold Bakhmut, they wouldn't have left it so late. But a bit of misinformation to cover a retreat - that's quite possible.
    Denis Davydov was talking about bursting one of the dams to cut off the Russia troops. Whatever the droughts elsewhere in Europe they don't seem short of water in Ukraine.
    Isn't the point about Bakhmut that it is of little military significance? I believe the Russians want it just so they can claim a victory somewhere, but it doesn't really help their war aims.

    Rather reminds me of Tobruk, where my old man was wounded. It made no sense to try and hold it, but Churchill insisted. Hmmmm......
    Yeah it's a small town with a salt mine. However it may have become important to the internal politics of the Kremlin, Wagner vs Russian army etc.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,300
    MikeL said:

    Forbes just gone favourite on Betfair in last 30 mins.

    Quite significant move - may imply new polling?

    https://twitter.com/murdo_fraser/status/1629940094697086978
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,940
    Carnyx said:

    nico679 said:

    MikeL said:

    Forbes just gone favourite on Betfair in last 30 mins.

    Quite significant move - may imply new polling?

    A number of heads on here will explode if she wins.
    As a Labour supporter some bible basher turning off the SNPs core support can only be good news .
    Hmm. You need to think about the competition. Greens on the left already, Tories on the right, and SNP moving closer to Labour? Rremember muich of the Labour vote is pro-indy, and if the SNP moves right to overlap with Labour, and SKS retains his Brexiter right wing shtick to appeal in England, things get very badly squashed like an accident in a fruit lorry.
    Forbes would move the SNP so far right it overtakes Sunak to meet Jacob Rees Mogg on the Tory right, never mind just overlapping Starmer Labour
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,324
    edited February 2023

    Some talk the Ukrainians have conducted a successful counter-attack north of Bakhmut and that they have encircled Russian forces. Fingers crossed.

    At least one of the videos that has been posted claiming to be recent reinforcements for Bakhmut is from last autumn, on the basis of the vegetation visible.

    I'm fairly certain that if the Ukrainians were going to make a counteroffensive in an attempt to hold Bakhmut, they wouldn't have left it so late. But a bit of misinformation to cover a retreat - that's quite possible.
    Denis Davydov was talking about bursting one of the dams to cut off the Russia troops. Whatever the droughts elsewhere in Europe they don't seem short of water in Ukraine.
    Isn't the point about Bakhmut that it is of little military significance? I believe the Russians want it just so they can claim a victory somewhere, but it doesn't really help their war aims.

    Rather reminds me of Tobruk, where my old man was wounded. It made no sense to try and hold it, but Churchill insisted. Hmmmm......
    Tobruk actually made some sense. Rommel was fighting at the end of a madly long supply chain. Capturing a port to shorten it was a massive thing for him.
    Not sure about that, M.

    My understanding is that by taking Tobruk he forced the 8th Army to do what it should have done in the first place - retreat to Alexandria and extend German supply lines further. I don't think Tobruk was much use to the Germans as a port because the allies controlled the Med for the most part.

    Auchinleck wasn't keen, but ceded to Churchill's insistence that Tobruk should be defended. The Auch was right, but wasn't prepared to lose his job over it.

    Edit: Anyway, never mind that. England just taken the fourth NZ wicket. Things are looking up.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,641
    Whatever happened to Jack Dee?
This discussion has been closed.