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Huge blow for the SNP in new Scottish YouGov poll – politicalbetting.com

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    British police have banned the Kremlin critic and journalist Christo Grozev and his family from attending the Baftas on Sunday because they “represent a public safety risk”.

    Grozev is the award-winning investigative journalist for Bellingcat, the website that unmasked the two Salisbury poisoners and the would-be assassins of Alexei Navalny, the Russian opposition leader. He has spent his career exposing Kremlin wrongdoing and now focuses on war crimes in Ukraine.

    He is featured in the documentary Navalny, which has been nominated for a best documentary Bafta, and had planned to attend the event in London with his teenage son and daughter. Earlier this month he learnt that Russian assassins had been targeting him.

    “I was surprised to discover that my whole family and I have all been banned by British police from attending this weekend’s Bafta awards where the documentary Navalny is nominated. The reason stated: we ‘represent a public security risk’,” Grozev tweeted.

    “I understand the need to keep the public safe (although I don’t understand how my son or teenage daughter constitute risk to the public). But moments like this show the growing dangers to independent journalists around the world.”


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-bar-journalist-who-exposed-navalny-murder-plot-from-baftas-7q0ttkpg0
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,013
    I can't see Labour ever returning to the dominance in Scotland that they had pre 2014.

    I think the SNP have a floor of at least 30%, and with support for independence at 45%, that would be their ceiling.

    At the same time, the Conservative vote seems a lot more efficiently distributed than in the past, with Labour very far behind in Conservative-held seats.

    Labour approaching twenty seats or so, would be doable.
  • Options
    Entirely off-topic but I think the problem with me being a YouTuber is that on filming / editing days I am spending too much time looking at myself and listening to my voice. Having monetised I'm now shooting in 4k so more detail to show my increasing grey hairs and already wonky teeth.

    How do politicians cope when they are either on TV or taking pictures of themselves pointing at potholes?
  • Options
    ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,001
    Carnyx said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sean_F said:

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1626592648973934592

    Scottish Westminster Voting Intention:

    SNP: 42% (-1)
    LAB: 29% (=)
    CON: 18% (=)
    LDM: 6% (=)

    Via @Survation, 1-7 Feb (!)
    Changes w/ 10-12 Jan.

    I would guess that gives something like SNP 37, Labour 12, Con 5, Lib Dem 5.
    Nope.

    New boundaries:
    SNP 45 seats (-3)
    SLab 7 seats (+6)
    SCon 3 seats (-3)
    SLD 2 seats (nc)
    We won't know if there is a Sturgeon resignation blip or a real decline in SNP support until May I think.

    The SNP need to hold their nerve and accept the next few polls are going to be pretty rough. If they panic, they will end up with permanent damage - and that's dangerous given there is a definite waterfall effect with SNP -> Labour marginals.
    Why May?
    Ballot for election of leader closes 20 March, say a week to count, gives leader a month to make known both self and initial policy statements.
    Ah! Fair enough. When I saw 'May' it pinged 'local elections' in my mind and thinking 'that's certainly going to show quite a low turnout for the SNP vote...'
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 6,090
    Leon said:

    My Leondamus-o-meter tells me this is genuinely bad for the Nits, and not just one outlying poll. Besides, it factually isn’t one outlying poll. We have the simultaneous decline in the Yes vote, the Ashford polling showing the SNP way out of kilter - ahem - with Scottish voter priorities, and so forth

    The SNP have become cultic, arrogant, incestuous and corrupt. This did not matter so much as long as they had Sturgeon at the helm, and the rock solid Indy vote. Now Sturgeon has gone and the Indy vote is flaking (but not crumbling, as yet)

    If they find another excellent leader they may yet save the situation, but that seems unlikely. The charismatic ones are too young

    I therefore see decline, and it could be quite dramatic. This party has defied electoral gravity for a decade, when that gravity eventually wins out the effect could be startling. The SNP will remain a serious if not dominant force, but the hegemony is over, for now

    Obviously "Scotch Expert" klaxon, but the one thing going for this idea is the extreme volatility of the Scottish electorate. We have a history of quickly turning on parties who have lost their touch.
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 6,090
    ohnotnow said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sean_F said:

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1626592648973934592

    Scottish Westminster Voting Intention:

    SNP: 42% (-1)
    LAB: 29% (=)
    CON: 18% (=)
    LDM: 6% (=)

    Via @Survation, 1-7 Feb (!)
    Changes w/ 10-12 Jan.

    I would guess that gives something like SNP 37, Labour 12, Con 5, Lib Dem 5.
    Nope.

    New boundaries:
    SNP 45 seats (-3)
    SLab 7 seats (+6)
    SCon 3 seats (-3)
    SLD 2 seats (nc)
    We won't know if there is a Sturgeon resignation blip or a real decline in SNP support until May I think.

    The SNP need to hold their nerve and accept the next few polls are going to be pretty rough. If they panic, they will end up with permanent damage - and that's dangerous given there is a definite waterfall effect with SNP -> Labour marginals.
    Why May?
    As Carnyx suggested. Enough time to get a leader in situ, a few composed FMQs, internecine warfare simmering down.

    Or the complete opposite.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,919

    British police have banned the Kremlin critic and journalist Christo Grozev and his family from attending the Baftas on Sunday because they “represent a public safety risk”.

    Grozev is the award-winning investigative journalist for Bellingcat, the website that unmasked the two Salisbury poisoners and the would-be assassins of Alexei Navalny, the Russian opposition leader. He has spent his career exposing Kremlin wrongdoing and now focuses on war crimes in Ukraine.

    He is featured in the documentary Navalny, which has been nominated for a best documentary Bafta, and had planned to attend the event in London with his teenage son and daughter. Earlier this month he learnt that Russian assassins had been targeting him.

    “I was surprised to discover that my whole family and I have all been banned by British police from attending this weekend’s Bafta awards where the documentary Navalny is nominated. The reason stated: we ‘represent a public security risk’,” Grozev tweeted.

    “I understand the need to keep the public safe (although I don’t understand how my son or teenage daughter constitute risk to the public). But moments like this show the growing dangers to independent journalists around the world.”


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-bar-journalist-who-exposed-navalny-murder-plot-from-baftas-7q0ttkpg0

    Shades of "Behzti" - your completely lawful actions have the potential to cause some idiot to do evil. So we must stop you.

    Many years ago, I was in the surplus store in Oxford, looking at leather jackets. The police came in. To tell the owner, that since he'd been robbed twice in the last month, they considered him to be a problem.

    They told him that it would be ok if he stopped selling the valuables items the thieves were after.

    I ended up, after the sale (a week later) with a Schott jacket I still have, at a knockdown price....
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,173
    edited February 2023
    ohnotnow said:

    Carnyx said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sean_F said:

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1626592648973934592

    Scottish Westminster Voting Intention:

    SNP: 42% (-1)
    LAB: 29% (=)
    CON: 18% (=)
    LDM: 6% (=)

    Via @Survation, 1-7 Feb (!)
    Changes w/ 10-12 Jan.

    I would guess that gives something like SNP 37, Labour 12, Con 5, Lib Dem 5.
    Nope.

    New boundaries:
    SNP 45 seats (-3)
    SLab 7 seats (+6)
    SCon 3 seats (-3)
    SLD 2 seats (nc)
    We won't know if there is a Sturgeon resignation blip or a real decline in SNP support until May I think.

    The SNP need to hold their nerve and accept the next few polls are going to be pretty rough. If they panic, they will end up with permanent damage - and that's dangerous given there is a definite waterfall effect with SNP -> Labour marginals.
    Why May?
    Ballot for election of leader closes 20 March, say a week to count, gives leader a month to make known both self and initial policy statements.
    Ah! Fair enough. When I saw 'May' it pinged 'local elections' in my mind and thinking 'that's certainly going to show quite a low turnout for the SNP vote...'
    Scottish Pmt is May 2026, local gmt (all) in May 2027.

    BTW I misremembered - it's 27 March the ballot closes, but the conclusion is still the same.
  • Options

    Entirely off-topic but I think the problem with me being a YouTuber is that on filming / editing days I am spending too much time looking at myself and listening to my voice. Having monetised I'm now shooting in 4k so more detail to show my increasing grey hairs and already wonky teeth.

    How do politicians cope when they are either on TV or taking pictures of themselves pointing at potholes?

    What’s your channel about? Will you share the name or do you wish to retain your anonymity?

    I watch a lot of YouTube, it’s great when you find a really good channel.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,252
    nico679 said:

    I’ve no doubt it will swing back to a degree if the SNP find a good leader but I doubt we’ll see the excellent polling of the past .

    Sturgeon was very much the face of independence, passion , charisma in bucket loads . You’d go on that journey to independence because of her .

    She had a face like a burst couch
  • Options

    Entirely off-topic but I think the problem with me being a YouTuber is that on filming / editing days I am spending too much time looking at myself and listening to my voice. Having monetised I'm now shooting in 4k so more detail to show my increasing grey hairs and already wonky teeth.

    How do politicians cope when they are either on TV or taking pictures of themselves pointing at potholes?

    What’s your channel about? Will you share the name or do you wish to retain your anonymity?

    I watch a lot of YouTube, it’s great when you find a really good channel.
    Hey Monkey, hope you are keeping well.

    I agree, if Rochdale is willing to share I would be interested to watch.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,252
    I see everyone down south is copying the standard of hysterics we expect from Leon, clowns everywhere dribbling over one bollox poll, dearie dearie me.
  • Options

    Entirely off-topic but I think the problem with me being a YouTuber is that on filming / editing days I am spending too much time looking at myself and listening to my voice. Having monetised I'm now shooting in 4k so more detail to show my increasing grey hairs and already wonky teeth.

    How do politicians cope when they are either on TV or taking pictures of themselves pointing at potholes?

    What’s your channel about? Will you share the name or do you wish to retain your anonymity?

    I watch a lot of YouTube, it’s great when you find a really good channel.
    Hey Monkey, hope you are keeping well.

    I agree, if Rochdale is willing to share I would be interested to watch.
    I’m not bad thanks mate, hope you’re all good too.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,303
    @gavinesler: David Frost has to be congratulated as the person who has done more than any other to destroy Brexit. And in Britai… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1626609762539372545
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,919
    malcolmg said:

    I see everyone down south is copying the standard of hysterics we expect from Leon, clowns everywhere dribbling over one bollox poll, dearie dearie me.

    How many barrels of cask strength turnip juice have you got through, since the news?

    You've definitely lost the angry edge today. Is it possible, dare I suggest, that you are happy?
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,245

    British police have banned the Kremlin critic and journalist Christo Grozev and his family from attending the Baftas on Sunday because they “represent a public safety risk”.

    Grozev is the award-winning investigative journalist for Bellingcat, the website that unmasked the two Salisbury poisoners and the would-be assassins of Alexei Navalny, the Russian opposition leader. He has spent his career exposing Kremlin wrongdoing and now focuses on war crimes in Ukraine.

    He is featured in the documentary Navalny, which has been nominated for a best documentary Bafta, and had planned to attend the event in London with his teenage son and daughter. Earlier this month he learnt that Russian assassins had been targeting him.

    “I was surprised to discover that my whole family and I have all been banned by British police from attending this weekend’s Bafta awards where the documentary Navalny is nominated. The reason stated: we ‘represent a public security risk’,” Grozev tweeted.

    “I understand the need to keep the public safe (although I don’t understand how my son or teenage daughter constitute risk to the public). But moments like this show the growing dangers to independent journalists around the world.”


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-bar-journalist-who-exposed-navalny-murder-plot-from-baftas-7q0ttkpg0

    I'd like to see more details about this.
    Have the police advised them that they can't guarantee their safety (which is bad enough) - or have they actually "banned" their attending as a "security risk" ?
  • Options

    Entirely off-topic but I think the problem with me being a YouTuber is that on filming / editing days I am spending too much time looking at myself and listening to my voice. Having monetised I'm now shooting in 4k so more detail to show my increasing grey hairs and already wonky teeth.

    How do politicians cope when they are either on TV or taking pictures of themselves pointing at potholes?

    What’s your channel about? Will you share the name or do you wish to retain your anonymity?

    I watch a lot of YouTube, it’s great when you find a really good channel.
    Hey Monkey, hope you are keeping well.

    I agree, if Rochdale is willing to share I would be interested to watch.
    I’m not bad thanks mate, hope you’re all good too.
    Not bad here, just about to pop out for a short run.

    How is your feeling in the North re Tories/Labour?
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,828
    Sean_F said:

    I can't see Labour ever returning to the dominance in Scotland that they had pre 2014.

    I think the SNP have a floor of at least 30%, and with support for independence at 45%, that would be their ceiling.

    At the same time, the Conservative vote seems a lot more efficiently distributed than in the past, with Labour very far behind in Conservative-held seats.

    Labour approaching twenty seats or so, would be doable.

    I can see a future of the Nats on 35+, Labour on 30, Tories on 15, LDs on 5-10, Greens on 5

    Perpetual stasis
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,919
    Nigelb said:

    British police have banned the Kremlin critic and journalist Christo Grozev and his family from attending the Baftas on Sunday because they “represent a public safety risk”.

    Grozev is the award-winning investigative journalist for Bellingcat, the website that unmasked the two Salisbury poisoners and the would-be assassins of Alexei Navalny, the Russian opposition leader. He has spent his career exposing Kremlin wrongdoing and now focuses on war crimes in Ukraine.

    He is featured in the documentary Navalny, which has been nominated for a best documentary Bafta, and had planned to attend the event in London with his teenage son and daughter. Earlier this month he learnt that Russian assassins had been targeting him.

    “I was surprised to discover that my whole family and I have all been banned by British police from attending this weekend’s Bafta awards where the documentary Navalny is nominated. The reason stated: we ‘represent a public security risk’,” Grozev tweeted.

    “I understand the need to keep the public safe (although I don’t understand how my son or teenage daughter constitute risk to the public). But moments like this show the growing dangers to independent journalists around the world.”


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-bar-journalist-who-exposed-navalny-murder-plot-from-baftas-7q0ttkpg0

    I'd like to see more details about this.
    Have the police advised them that they can't guarantee their safety (which is bad enough) - or have they actually "banned" their attending as a "security risk" ?
    The contrast with this is interesting -

    https://chiswickcalendar.co.uk/armed-police-guard-iranian-tv-studio-in-chiswick-park-after-death-threats-to-journalists/

    The barricades of concrete blocks in the road and security are still there. Today.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,252
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Fieldwork pre-resignation so that 38% for the SNP will drop further, could see them end up on ca. 30% by election date and Labour on 45%.

    I think independence is dead. Scotland had one chance, they bottled it.

    It’s not dead. But it is now properly dormant. Which has serious ramifications for the SNP - because their record on everything else (except chasing Indy) is lamentable

    This is great news for Scotland. Scottish voters might now look beyond Indy and think: Who will best use the powers we have? Who is best for the Scottish economy and people?

    It isn’t the Nits


    It i seven more certain it ain't any of the dire opposition London sock puppet parties. There is nowhere else to go , they are the pick of the bunch. IT will only matter if no independence minded / anyone with IQ above 50 decides not to vote.
  • Options
    https://twitter.com/DavidGHFrost/status/1626319658444894209

    "A bad Protocol deal will embolden anti-Brexit elites"

    My
    @Telegraph
    column tonight, including some thoughts on the NI Protocol.

    ROFL, he negotiated it.

    Why are Brexiteers never responsible? Would anyone on that side like to justify this?
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,252

    If Starmer puts a forward genuine devo-max-type plan in his first term, and entertains the possibility of a single-market referendum in his second, hopes for the snp will have to be on the back burner for a few years, I think.

    verbal diahorrea there
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,968
    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    I can't see Labour ever returning to the dominance in Scotland that they had pre 2014.

    I think the SNP have a floor of at least 30%, and with support for independence at 45%, that would be their ceiling.

    At the same time, the Conservative vote seems a lot more efficiently distributed than in the past, with Labour very far behind in Conservative-held seats.

    Labour approaching twenty seats or so, would be doable.

    I can see a future of the Nats on 35+, Labour on 30, Tories on 15, LDs on 5-10, Greens on 5

    Perpetual stasis
    Oooh. Belgium. Or is it Italy, or another one?
  • Options
    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Fieldwork pre-resignation so that 38% for the SNP will drop further, could see them end up on ca. 30% by election date and Labour on 45%.

    I think independence is dead. Scotland had one chance, they bottled it.

    It’s not dead. But it is now properly dormant. Which has serious ramifications for the SNP - because their record on everything else (except chasing Indy) is lamentable

    This is great news for Scotland. Scottish voters might now look beyond Indy and think: Who will best use the powers we have? Who is best for the Scottish economy and people?

    It isn’t the Nits


    It i seven more certain it ain't any of the dire opposition London sock puppet parties. There is nowhere else to go , they are the pick of the bunch. IT will only matter if no independence minded / anyone with IQ above 50 decides not to vote.
    Sorry, what does this mean in English (or Scottish?)
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,828

    Entirely off-topic but I think the problem with me being a YouTuber is that on filming / editing days I am spending too much time looking at myself and listening to my voice. Having monetised I'm now shooting in 4k so more detail to show my increasing grey hairs and already wonky teeth.

    How do politicians cope when they are either on TV or taking pictures of themselves pointing at potholes?

    I have a good friend who is a well-known TV presenter - successful over decades

    His golden rule is ‘never look at yourself’. And this is what he does. Never watches his own shows/performances. He says if he ever did this, he’d get mortifyingly self conscious - “omg I look so fat and old” etc. He relies on others to point out if something is wrong

    Given his long term success it might be sound advice
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,245
    Leon said:

    My Leondamus-o-meter tells me this is genuinely bad for the Nits, and not just one outlying poll. Besides, it factually isn’t one outlying poll. We have the simultaneous decline in the Yes vote, the Ashford polling showing the SNP way out of kilter - ahem - with Scottish voter priorities, and so forth

    The SNP have become cultic, arrogant, incestuous and corrupt..

    But in contrast with the Tories (about whom you might fairly make almost exactly the same comment), they have a cause around which to reconstitute (whether or not as the SNP).

    Independence is clearly on hold for a while, but I wouldn't write it off.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,919
    malcolmg said:

    If Starmer puts a forward genuine devo-max-type plan in his first term, and entertains the possibility of a single-market referendum in his second, hopes for the snp will have to be on the back burner for a few years, I think.

    verbal diahorrea there
    1/10 - you are really coasting.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,252
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    New map of Scottish constituencies on today's Yougov shows Labour regaining most of the central belt.

    The SNP are reduced back more to their old heartlands of the Highlands and North East along with some of the South West.

    It would be a party looking more like Forbes than Sturgeon

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1626562686493372416?s=20

    Baxter gives (new boundaries):

    SNP 27 seats (-21)
    SLab 23 seats (+22)
    SCon 5 seats (-1)
    SLD 2 seats (nc)
    Unionist majority of Scottish MPs for the first time since 2010!
    Anyone like a bet that Labour do NOT get 23 seats
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,108

    British police have banned the Kremlin critic and journalist Christo Grozev and his family from attending the Baftas on Sunday because they “represent a public safety risk”.

    Grozev is the award-winning investigative journalist for Bellingcat, the website that unmasked the two Salisbury poisoners and the would-be assassins of Alexei Navalny, the Russian opposition leader. He has spent his career exposing Kremlin wrongdoing and now focuses on war crimes in Ukraine.

    He is featured in the documentary Navalny, which has been nominated for a best documentary Bafta, and had planned to attend the event in London with his teenage son and daughter. Earlier this month he learnt that Russian assassins had been targeting him.

    “I was surprised to discover that my whole family and I have all been banned by British police from attending this weekend’s Bafta awards where the documentary Navalny is nominated. The reason stated: we ‘represent a public security risk’,” Grozev tweeted.

    “I understand the need to keep the public safe (although I don’t understand how my son or teenage daughter constitute risk to the public). But moments like this show the growing dangers to independent journalists around the world.”


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-bar-journalist-who-exposed-navalny-murder-plot-from-baftas-7q0ttkpg0

    What the F?

    The job of the police, is to keep the likes of Grozev safe at the event. Not to tell them to stay away.
  • Options
    Eabhal said:

    Sean_F said:

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1626592648973934592

    Scottish Westminster Voting Intention:

    SNP: 42% (-1)
    LAB: 29% (=)
    CON: 18% (=)
    LDM: 6% (=)

    Via @Survation, 1-7 Feb (!)
    Changes w/ 10-12 Jan.

    I would guess that gives something like SNP 37, Labour 12, Con 5, Lib Dem 5.
    Nope.

    New boundaries:
    SNP 45 seats (-3)
    SLab 7 seats (+6)
    SCon 3 seats (-3)
    SLD 2 seats (nc)
    We won't know if there is a Sturgeon resignation blip or a real decline in SNP support until May I think.

    The SNP need to hold their nerve and accept the next few polls are going to be pretty rough. If they panic, they will end up with permanent damage - and that's dangerous given there is a definite waterfall effect with SNP -> Labour marginals.
    A good post. A lot of people getting excited re one poll. The underlying question is how many people genuinely want independence and how many see it as a proxy for other issues.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    tlg86 said:

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1626592648973934592

    Scottish Westminster Voting Intention:

    SNP: 42% (-1)
    LAB: 29% (=)
    CON: 18% (=)
    LDM: 6% (=)

    Via @Survation, 1-7 Feb (!)
    Changes w/ 10-12 Jan.

    A week is a long time in politics, etc. etc.
    An hour or so seems a lot longer on here!
  • Options
    Leon said:

    Entirely off-topic but I think the problem with me being a YouTuber is that on filming / editing days I am spending too much time looking at myself and listening to my voice. Having monetised I'm now shooting in 4k so more detail to show my increasing grey hairs and already wonky teeth.

    How do politicians cope when they are either on TV or taking pictures of themselves pointing at potholes?

    I have a good friend who is a well-known TV presenter - successful over decades

    His golden rule is ‘never look at yourself’. And this is what he does. Never watches his own shows/performances. He says if he ever did this, he’d get mortifyingly self conscious - “omg I look so fat and old” etc. He relies on others to point out if something is wrong

    Given his long term success it might be sound advice
    Once worked in a school that had a video setup; "watch yourself teach so you can see how to improve". I get the theory, but it could well have been a deal-breaker professionally if I'd had to do it.

    The one thing I worked out by doing standup routines (commonly called lessons) five times a day is that you have to have some insulation between you as a performer and you as a person, if you don't you go mad.
  • Options
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Turns out Phnom Penh has a groovy bar culture with networks of tiny alleys full of brilliant little gin-pubs and whisky-joints

    This is Bangkok in about 1989. The optimism is effervescent (and the Pho is whoah)



    Have to admit from that pic, I'm not seeing the comparison with Bangkok 1989. If you had included a few (actually, a lot) ladyboy hookers plus stalls selling knock off designer brands, I would have been more convinced
    We obviously went to different parts of Bangkok in 1989. It sounds like you went to the - ahem - insalubrious bits, which I strenuously avoided, as I was mainly there to look at << checks notes >> reclining buddhas
    Of course, you get your kicks above the waistline...
  • Options
    Carnyx said:

    I think it is reading too much into one poll.

    Sturgeons actions and resignation have created a game of 52 Card Pickup. The question is who will pickup what cards, from the floor.

    It’s all in flux at the moment. If the SNP pick a good replacement and unite behind them, it could swing back (!)

    I think it is all to play for - for both Labour and the SNP.

    Also the poll antedates her resignation.
    Indeed - there may be a further boost!

    Much as I’d be the first to dance on the SNP’s grave, it is just one poll AND we have to see what effect if any Sturgeon’s resignation has.

    Could go either way.

    What the whole GRR saga might do is open the floodgates on the SNP’s record - which may not be good for them, but would be good for Scotland.


  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,252

    Eabhal said:

    Sean_F said:

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1626592648973934592

    Scottish Westminster Voting Intention:

    SNP: 42% (-1)
    LAB: 29% (=)
    CON: 18% (=)
    LDM: 6% (=)

    Via @Survation, 1-7 Feb (!)
    Changes w/ 10-12 Jan.

    I would guess that gives something like SNP 37, Labour 12, Con 5, Lib Dem 5.
    Nope.

    New boundaries:
    SNP 45 seats (-3)
    SLab 7 seats (+6)
    SCon 3 seats (-3)
    SLD 2 seats (nc)
    We won't know if there is a Sturgeon resignation blip or a real decline in SNP support until May I think.

    The SNP need to hold their nerve and accept the next few polls are going to be pretty rough. If they panic, they will end up with permanent damage - and that's dangerous given there is a definite waterfall effect with SNP -> Labour marginals.
    A consideration is that erstwhile SNP voters may choose to temporarily vote Labour, like many others at the next GE, in order to ensure the Tories are kicked out. It may be a higher priority than independence, given that independence isn’t a short term option. Rather than speculation, a Scotland wide poll, asking the pro/anti independence question alongside voting intention, would provide some valuable information. Over to you, polling companies.
    Fairlie, Westminster matters not a jot to Scotland, they only go there to be
    insulted in any case. They need to get a grip in Holyrood and get a vote on independence there, Westminster is irrelevant. Get shot of the weirdos , start doing what they should be doing and tehn force a Holyrood election at their choice of timing.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,828
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    My Leondamus-o-meter tells me this is genuinely bad for the Nits, and not just one outlying poll. Besides, it factually isn’t one outlying poll. We have the simultaneous decline in the Yes vote, the Ashford polling showing the SNP way out of kilter - ahem - with Scottish voter priorities, and so forth

    The SNP have become cultic, arrogant, incestuous and corrupt..

    But in contrast with the Tories (about whom you might fairly make almost exactly the same comment), they have a cause around which to reconstitute (whether or not as the SNP).

    Independence is clearly on hold for a while, but I wouldn't write it off.
    I’m not writing it off, at all. Québécois Indy came back for a second referendum - and nearly won. I am sure Scots will demand and get their own rerun, eventually. But as I’ve been saying on here for years, it won’t happen until the generation argument is morally exhausted. Some time between 2035-45? Maybe a few years earlier if the Nats get lucky

    The problem for Nats is that Westminster will likely only grant a vote when the Union is most likely to win. That’s just realpolitik
  • Options
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    My Leondamus-o-meter tells me this is genuinely bad for the Nits, and not just one outlying poll. Besides, it factually isn’t one outlying poll. We have the simultaneous decline in the Yes vote, the Ashford polling showing the SNP way out of kilter - ahem - with Scottish voter priorities, and so forth

    The SNP have become cultic, arrogant, incestuous and corrupt..

    But in contrast with the Tories (about whom you might fairly make almost exactly the same comment), they have a cause around which to reconstitute (whether or not as the SNP).

    Independence is clearly on hold for a while, but I wouldn't write it off.
    The psychological shift will be interesting to watch though.

    It's possible to hold an aspiration to independence alongside a recognition that it's not happening soon and that the next step is to increase the reach of autonomy and use it well.

    Is that where the SNP is, emotionally? I'm not sure all of them are.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,252

    malcolmg said:

    I see everyone down south is copying the standard of hysterics we expect from Leon, clowns everywhere dribbling over one bollox poll, dearie dearie me.

    How many barrels of cask strength turnip juice have you got through, since the news?

    You've definitely lost the angry edge today. Is it possible, dare I suggest, that you are happy?
    Bit of both , glad the wicked witch is gone , apprehensive that the Macbeths will be in Bute House and we will be back where we started. Time someone published the e-mails.
  • Options
    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,400
    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    I can't see Labour ever returning to the dominance in Scotland that they had pre 2014.

    I think the SNP have a floor of at least 30%, and with support for independence at 45%, that would be their ceiling.

    At the same time, the Conservative vote seems a lot more efficiently distributed than in the past, with Labour very far behind in Conservative-held seats.

    Labour approaching twenty seats or so, would be doable.

    I can see a future of the Nats on 35+, Labour on 30, Tories on 15, LDs on 5-10, Greens on 5

    Perpetual stasis
    Any result that makes the SNP impotent is a good result. We have had one good result, the whineathon has ended, this would be another even better result.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,252

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Fieldwork pre-resignation so that 38% for the SNP will drop further, could see them end up on ca. 30% by election date and Labour on 45%.

    I think independence is dead. Scotland had one chance, they bottled it.

    It’s not dead. But it is now properly dormant. Which has serious ramifications for the SNP - because their record on everything else (except chasing Indy) is lamentable

    This is great news for Scotland. Scottish voters might now look beyond Indy and think: Who will best use the powers we have? Who is best for the Scottish economy and people?

    It isn’t the Nits


    It i seven more certain it ain't any of the dire opposition London sock puppet parties. There is nowhere else to go , they are the pick of the bunch. IT will only matter if no independence minded / anyone with IQ above 50 decides not to vote.
    Sorry, what does this mean in English (or Scottish?)
    For those unable to comprehend what a 3 year old could. The opposition is such crap that any person of any intelligence could only vote SNP or not vote.
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 6,090
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see everyone down south is copying the standard of hysterics we expect from Leon, clowns everywhere dribbling over one bollox poll, dearie dearie me.

    How many barrels of cask strength turnip juice have you got through, since the news?

    You've definitely lost the angry edge today. Is it possible, dare I suggest, that you are happy?
    Bit of both , glad the wicked witch is gone , apprehensive that the Macbeths will be in Bute House and we will be back where we started. Time someone published the e-mails.
    Are there any SNP candidates you would be happy with? Forbes, or is she still too close to the Sturgeon set?
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,252
    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    I can't see Labour ever returning to the dominance in Scotland that they had pre 2014.

    I think the SNP have a floor of at least 30%, and with support for independence at 45%, that would be their ceiling.

    At the same time, the Conservative vote seems a lot more efficiently distributed than in the past, with Labour very far behind in Conservative-held seats.

    Labour approaching twenty seats or so, would be doable.

    I can see a future of the Nats on 35+, Labour on 30, Tories on 15, LDs on 5-10, Greens on 5

    Perpetual stasis
    Would you like to put your money where your mouth is
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,245
    edited February 2023
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    My Leondamus-o-meter tells me this is genuinely bad for the Nits, and not just one outlying poll. Besides, it factually isn’t one outlying poll. We have the simultaneous decline in the Yes vote, the Ashford polling showing the SNP way out of kilter - ahem - with Scottish voter priorities, and so forth

    The SNP have become cultic, arrogant, incestuous and corrupt..

    But in contrast with the Tories (about whom you might fairly make almost exactly the same comment), they have a cause around which to reconstitute (whether or not as the SNP).

    Independence is clearly on hold for a while, but I wouldn't write it off.
    I’m not writing it off, at all...
    Fair enough.
    I thought you'd made some gag about '40 years' earlier today.

    For now I don't think it's possible to see much beyond the likely Labour government.
    And after that we'll probably be succumbing to the AI-pocalypse anyway.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,828
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    My Leondamus-o-meter tells me this is genuinely bad for the Nits, and not just one outlying poll. Besides, it factually isn’t one outlying poll. We have the simultaneous decline in the Yes vote, the Ashford polling showing the SNP way out of kilter - ahem - with Scottish voter priorities, and so forth

    The SNP have become cultic, arrogant, incestuous and corrupt..

    But in contrast with the Tories (about whom you might fairly make almost exactly the same comment), they have a cause around which to reconstitute (whether or not as the SNP).

    Independence is clearly on hold for a while, but I wouldn't write it off.
    I’m not writing it off, at all...
    Fair enough.
    I thought you'd made some gag about '40 years' earlier today.
    No, just trolling the PB Nats

    However, psychologically, the next indyref being postponed from ‘maybe this year or next’ to ‘probably in the 2030s’ will itself have a profound effect on Scottish politics. It’s a huge demotivating factor. Young enthusiasts will drift away. Activists will deactivate - for now

    Scottish politics will become more about running Scotland within the UK, for a while. Surely a good thing given the pig’s breakfast the SNP has made of actually running Scotland
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,828
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see everyone down south is copying the standard of hysterics we expect from Leon, clowns everywhere dribbling over one bollox poll, dearie dearie me.

    How many barrels of cask strength turnip juice have you got through, since the news?

    You've definitely lost the angry edge today. Is it possible, dare I suggest, that you are happy?
    Mlamesbury, I am always happy , and it is Friday and will soon be time for a refreshment then dinner and a pleasant evening with my good wife. What more could a man ask for.
    Poontang. Fresh poontang
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,252
    Eabhal said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see everyone down south is copying the standard of hysterics we expect from Leon, clowns everywhere dribbling over one bollox poll, dearie dearie me.

    How many barrels of cask strength turnip juice have you got through, since the news?

    You've definitely lost the angry edge today. Is it possible, dare I suggest, that you are happy?
    Bit of both , glad the wicked witch is gone , apprehensive that the Macbeths will be in Bute House and we will be back where we started. Time someone published the e-mails.
    Are there any SNP candidates you would be happy with? Forbes, or is she still too close to the Sturgeon set?
    Would not want any of Sturgeon's lot, all just butt lickers. Forbes has never went against anything re Sturgeon and chose to duck GRR rather than even abstain on GRR, so not sure on her. Macbeths will be a disaster for obvious reasons if you are Scottish and most of rest are just seat warmers, so answer is not sure at all who I would want. Maybe Ash Regan may be best of bad lot. Totally shocked that people are suggesting Humza Useless could even throw his hat in the ring.
    Bit meandering but most have beenso scared to say boo to Sturgeon or have been serious butt lickers to know if any talent there at all, so Forbes or Regan it would have to be.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,522
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see everyone down south is copying the standard of hysterics we expect from Leon, clowns everywhere dribbling over one bollox poll, dearie dearie me.

    How many barrels of cask strength turnip juice have you got through, since the news?

    You've definitely lost the angry edge today. Is it possible, dare I suggest, that you are happy?
    Mlamesbury, I am always happy , and it is Friday and will soon be time for a refreshment then dinner and a pleasant evening with my good wife. What more could a man ask for.
    Scottish Independence!
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,522
    malcolmg said:

    Eabhal said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see everyone down south is copying the standard of hysterics we expect from Leon, clowns everywhere dribbling over one bollox poll, dearie dearie me.

    How many barrels of cask strength turnip juice have you got through, since the news?

    You've definitely lost the angry edge today. Is it possible, dare I suggest, that you are happy?
    Bit of both , glad the wicked witch is gone , apprehensive that the Macbeths will be in Bute House and we will be back where we started. Time someone published the e-mails.
    Are there any SNP candidates you would be happy with? Forbes, or is she still too close to the Sturgeon set?
    Would not want any of Sturgeon's lot, all just butt lickers. Forbes has never went against anything re Sturgeon and chose to duck GRR rather than even abstain on GRR, so not sure on her. Macbeths will be a disaster for obvious reasons if you are Scottish and most of rest are just seat warmers, so answer is not sure at all who I would want. Maybe Ash Regan may be best of bad lot. Totally shocked that people are suggesting Humza Useless could even throw his hat in the ring.
    Bit meandering but most have beenso scared to say boo to Sturgeon or have been serious butt lickers to know if any talent there at all, so Forbes or Regan it would have to be.
    What about the betting fav - Robertson?
  • Options
    Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,561
    edited February 2023
    On topic: David Clegg (who I am not familiar with) has this to say in the Washington Post:
    source$: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/02/16/nicola-sturgeon-snp-scotland-politics/

    "The SNP has won eight elections in eight years under Sturgeon, and few observers believed the next British general election, due no later than January 2025, would see Scotland return a substantively different result."

    And:
    "Sturgeon’s farewell offered no self-reflection about her own contributions to the country’s polarization, but that might have been beside the point. Lately the tribal nature of the independence debate in Scotland — amplified by the social media echo chamber — has made the normal functioning of politics seem next to impossible. Is that any different from the impact of Brexit in Britain or of Donald Trump in the United States?"

    I don't know enough about Sturgeon and Scottish politics to have an opinion on the piece, but thought many of you might like to know about it.

    (Though I will say the piece does have a touch of those famous lines about the people failing the government.)
  • Options
    darkagedarkage Posts: 4,813
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/feb/13/tory-vice-chair-lee-anderson-faces-libel-claim-over-bribery-allegations

    I get that Lee Anderson says 'what people think' and that this is important in a democracy, but it is quite off putting for other prospective voters; by escalating him to vice-chair this type of thing cannot be just dismissed as the rantings of a backbencher and probably puts a lot of other people off voting Conservative.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,252
    kinabalu said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see everyone down south is copying the standard of hysterics we expect from Leon, clowns everywhere dribbling over one bollox poll, dearie dearie me.

    How many barrels of cask strength turnip juice have you got through, since the news?

    You've definitely lost the angry edge today. Is it possible, dare I suggest, that you are happy?
    Mlamesbury, I am always happy , and it is Friday and will soon be time for a refreshment then dinner and a pleasant evening with my good wife. What more could a man ask for.
    Scottish Independence!
    Touche
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,252
    kinabalu said:

    malcolmg said:

    Eabhal said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see everyone down south is copying the standard of hysterics we expect from Leon, clowns everywhere dribbling over one bollox poll, dearie dearie me.

    How many barrels of cask strength turnip juice have you got through, since the news?

    You've definitely lost the angry edge today. Is it possible, dare I suggest, that you are happy?
    Bit of both , glad the wicked witch is gone , apprehensive that the Macbeths will be in Bute House and we will be back where we started. Time someone published the e-mails.
    Are there any SNP candidates you would be happy with? Forbes, or is she still too close to the Sturgeon set?
    Would not want any of Sturgeon's lot, all just butt lickers. Forbes has never went against anything re Sturgeon and chose to duck GRR rather than even abstain on GRR, so not sure on her. Macbeths will be a disaster for obvious reasons if you are Scottish and most of rest are just seat warmers, so answer is not sure at all who I would want. Maybe Ash Regan may be best of bad lot. Totally shocked that people are suggesting Humza Useless could even throw his hat in the ring.
    Bit meandering but most have beenso scared to say boo to Sturgeon or have been serious butt lickers to know if any talent there at all, so Forbes or Regan it would have to be.
    What about the betting fav - Robertson?
    Never , Macbeths would be the worst possible choice, pure poison and too many rattling skeletons.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,137

    Entirely off-topic but I think the problem with me being a YouTuber is that on filming / editing days I am spending too much time looking at myself and listening to my voice. Having monetised I'm now shooting in 4k so more detail to show my increasing grey hairs and already wonky teeth.

    How do politicians cope when they are either on TV or taking pictures of themselves pointing at potholes?

    Sheer self confidence.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,252

    On topic: David Clegg (who I am not familiar with) has this to say in the Washington Post:
    source$: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/02/16/nicola-sturgeon-snp-scotland-politics/

    "The SNP has won eight elections in eight years under Sturgeon, and few observers believed the next British general election, due no later than January 2025, would see Scotland return a substantively different result."

    And:
    "Sturgeon’s farewell offered no self-reflection about her own contributions to the country’s polarization, but that might have been beside the point. Lately the tribal nature of the independence debate in Scotland — amplified by the social media echo chamber — has made the normal functioning of politics seem next to impossible. Is that any different from the impact of Brexit in Britain or of Donald Trump in the United States?"

    I don't know enough about Sturgeon and Scottish politics to have an opinion on the piece, but thought many of you might like to know about it.

    (Though I will say the piece does have a touch of those famous lines about the people failing the government.)

    Davy boy has form with Sturgeon's coterie.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,137
    Sandpit said:

    British police have banned the Kremlin critic and journalist Christo Grozev and his family from attending the Baftas on Sunday because they “represent a public safety risk”.

    Grozev is the award-winning investigative journalist for Bellingcat, the website that unmasked the two Salisbury poisoners and the would-be assassins of Alexei Navalny, the Russian opposition leader. He has spent his career exposing Kremlin wrongdoing and now focuses on war crimes in Ukraine.

    He is featured in the documentary Navalny, which has been nominated for a best documentary Bafta, and had planned to attend the event in London with his teenage son and daughter. Earlier this month he learnt that Russian assassins had been targeting him.

    “I was surprised to discover that my whole family and I have all been banned by British police from attending this weekend’s Bafta awards where the documentary Navalny is nominated. The reason stated: we ‘represent a public security risk’,” Grozev tweeted.

    “I understand the need to keep the public safe (although I don’t understand how my son or teenage daughter constitute risk to the public). But moments like this show the growing dangers to independent journalists around the world.”


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-bar-journalist-who-exposed-navalny-murder-plot-from-baftas-7q0ttkpg0

    What the F?

    The job of the police, is to keep the likes of Grozev safe at the event. Not to tell them to stay away.
    If they've said they cannot guarantee his safety in the face of credible threats and they advise him to stay away that is quite an admission from them. If they have said 'you cannot come because we say so' that is a different matter entirely.
  • Options
    Nigelb said:

    British police have banned the Kremlin critic and journalist Christo Grozev and his family from attending the Baftas on Sunday because they “represent a public safety risk”.

    Grozev is the award-winning investigative journalist for Bellingcat, the website that unmasked the two Salisbury poisoners and the would-be assassins of Alexei Navalny, the Russian opposition leader. He has spent his career exposing Kremlin wrongdoing and now focuses on war crimes in Ukraine.

    He is featured in the documentary Navalny, which has been nominated for a best documentary Bafta, and had planned to attend the event in London with his teenage son and daughter. Earlier this month he learnt that Russian assassins had been targeting him.

    “I was surprised to discover that my whole family and I have all been banned by British police from attending this weekend’s Bafta awards where the documentary Navalny is nominated. The reason stated: we ‘represent a public security risk’,” Grozev tweeted.

    “I understand the need to keep the public safe (although I don’t understand how my son or teenage daughter constitute risk to the public). But moments like this show the growing dangers to independent journalists around the world.”


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-bar-journalist-who-exposed-navalny-murder-plot-from-baftas-7q0ttkpg0

    I'd like to see more details about this.
    Have the police advised them that they can't guarantee their safety (which is bad enough) - or have they actually "banned" their attending as a "security risk" ?
    What is the legal basis for the police to stop someone attending a private event?

    If they have intelligence that he is at risk of being the victim of a crime rather than being the risk himself, they should be taking steps to protect him.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,173
    edited February 2023

    On topic: David Clegg (who I am not familiar with) has this to say in the Washington Post:
    source$: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/02/16/nicola-sturgeon-snp-scotland-politics/

    "The SNP has won eight elections in eight years under Sturgeon, and few observers believed the next British general election, due no later than January 2025, would see Scotland return a substantively different result."

    And:
    "Sturgeon’s farewell offered no self-reflection about her own contributions to the country’s polarization, but that might have been beside the point. Lately the tribal nature of the independence debate in Scotland — amplified by the social media echo chamber — has made the normal functioning of politics seem next to impossible. Is that any different from the impact of Brexit in Britain or of Donald Trump in the United States?"

    I don't know enough about Sturgeon and Scottish politics to have an opinion on the piece, but thought many of you might like to know about it.

    (Though I will say the piece does have a touch of those famous lines about the people failing the government.)

    David Clegg is the editor of the Dundee Courier, owned by a firm wehich is generally regarded as anti-independence, certainly in its other newspaper the Sunday Post. But of course this is not a D C Thomson newspaper he is publishing in.
  • Options
    kle4 said:

    Entirely off-topic but I think the problem with me being a YouTuber is that on filming / editing days I am spending too much time looking at myself and listening to my voice. Having monetised I'm now shooting in 4k so more detail to show my increasing grey hairs and already wonky teeth.

    How do politicians cope when they are either on TV or taking pictures of themselves pointing at potholes?

    Sheer self confidence.
    "Tell you what- how about we use that photo we had done for the last campaign; save on election expenses and all that..."
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,689
    malcolmg said:

    kinabalu said:

    malcolmg said:

    Eabhal said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see everyone down south is copying the standard of hysterics we expect from Leon, clowns everywhere dribbling over one bollox poll, dearie dearie me.

    How many barrels of cask strength turnip juice have you got through, since the news?

    You've definitely lost the angry edge today. Is it possible, dare I suggest, that you are happy?
    Bit of both , glad the wicked witch is gone , apprehensive that the Macbeths will be in Bute House and we will be back where we started. Time someone published the e-mails.
    Are there any SNP candidates you would be happy with? Forbes, or is she still too close to the Sturgeon set?
    Would not want any of Sturgeon's lot, all just butt lickers. Forbes has never went against anything re Sturgeon and chose to duck GRR rather than even abstain on GRR, so not sure on her. Macbeths will be a disaster for obvious reasons if you are Scottish and most of rest are just seat warmers, so answer is not sure at all who I would want. Maybe Ash Regan may be best of bad lot. Totally shocked that people are suggesting Humza Useless could even throw his hat in the ring.
    Bit meandering but most have beenso scared to say boo to Sturgeon or have been serious butt lickers to know if any talent there at all, so Forbes or Regan it would have to be.
    What about the betting fav - Robertson?
    Never , Macbeths would be the worst possible choice, pure poison and too many rattling skeletons.
    But I like him. He has personality, the gift of the gab. Speaks and interviews very well. Very tricksy - as Gollum would put it.

    Robertson’s approach would be trying to expose the archaic inadequacies of system of Westminster, while attempting to strike a healthy balance of disruption and playing them at their own game in seeking the independence vote, and manage Scottish government as pragmatically and creatively as possible.

    He would be good at all that wouldn’t he?

    Maybe you are too hung up on personalities and actually having to like them, rather than what they can do for Scottish Independence?
  • Options
    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,592

    kle4 said:

    Entirely off-topic but I think the problem with me being a YouTuber is that on filming / editing days I am spending too much time looking at myself and listening to my voice. Having monetised I'm now shooting in 4k so more detail to show my increasing grey hairs and already wonky teeth.

    How do politicians cope when they are either on TV or taking pictures of themselves pointing at potholes?

    Sheer self confidence.
    "Tell you what- how about we use that photo we had done for the last campaign; save on election expenses and all that..."
    Uni website staff photos are often hideously outdated - there doesn't seem to any automated process to re-do them say every five years or so, can be quite amusing.

    Not always flattering though, what with outmoded fashions and I can think of one faculty member who was pregnant at the time and had a bit more than just the weight of the baby extra. Now very svelte, not reflected in the website photo.

    My own is now about 7 years out of date, during which time I've had three lots of new-baby sleepless nights and I suspect that shows!
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,689
    Carnyx said:

    On topic: David Clegg (who I am not familiar with) has this to say in the Washington Post:
    source$: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/02/16/nicola-sturgeon-snp-scotland-politics/

    "The SNP has won eight elections in eight years under Sturgeon, and few observers believed the next British general election, due no later than January 2025, would see Scotland return a substantively different result."

    And:
    "Sturgeon’s farewell offered no self-reflection about her own contributions to the country’s polarization, but that might have been beside the point. Lately the tribal nature of the independence debate in Scotland — amplified by the social media echo chamber — has made the normal functioning of politics seem next to impossible. Is that any different from the impact of Brexit in Britain or of Donald Trump in the United States?"

    I don't know enough about Sturgeon and Scottish politics to have an opinion on the piece, but thought many of you might like to know about it.

    (Though I will say the piece does have a touch of those famous lines about the people failing the government.)

    David Clegg is the editor of the Dundee Courier, owned by a firm wehich is generally regarded as anti-independence, certainly in its other newspaper the Sunday Post. But of course this is not a D C Thomson newspaper he is publishing in.
    Didn’t DC Thompson do comics?
  • Options

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Taz said:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/labour-plans-community-courts-to-punish-antisocial-offenders-9s9dc62gn

    Labour plans ‘community courts’ to punish antisocial offenders

    Labour doesn't have any policies.

    Well it's not much better than the new Labour days of ASBO's and threatening to march anti social offenders off to cashpoints to pay fines.

    It strikes of a lack of any will to invest in the legal system
    Re-inventing Magistrates Courts?

    Why not just hire more magistrates? It's not like they are that expensive.
    Plus look at who they want sitting in judgement..teachers and sports coaches, so called community leaders usually who are self selecting and most dont think represent them at all...MCB for example.

    All of whom will likely have past history with the majority of the defendants are going to be coming at it unbiassed.
    Community restorative Justice in Northern Ireland.

    AKA give the kneecappers a job
    It's a recipe for people to get revenge, cf revolutionary france, witch trials etc. People with no training passing sentence on people for things that aren't actually crimes such as we saw with many asbo's who have prior contact with the accused.....yeah thats going to end well
    I recall the upset here a while back, when I related the story of the hedge fund manager who hired private security for his village. Apparently having private security guards just watching the local criminals was a bad thing.

    Can you imagine if he'd got to be some kind of ersatz magistrate?
    According to this, the Wild West was wild because it depended on private lawmen, from sheriffs via detective agencies to bounty hunters.
    https://bigthink.com/the-past/wild-west-lawless/
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 10,034
    RunDeep said:

    Nigelb said:

    British police have banned the Kremlin critic and journalist Christo Grozev and his family from attending the Baftas on Sunday because they “represent a public safety risk”.

    Grozev is the award-winning investigative journalist for Bellingcat, the website that unmasked the two Salisbury poisoners and the would-be assassins of Alexei Navalny, the Russian opposition leader. He has spent his career exposing Kremlin wrongdoing and now focuses on war crimes in Ukraine.

    He is featured in the documentary Navalny, which has been nominated for a best documentary Bafta, and had planned to attend the event in London with his teenage son and daughter. Earlier this month he learnt that Russian assassins had been targeting him.

    “I was surprised to discover that my whole family and I have all been banned by British police from attending this weekend’s Bafta awards where the documentary Navalny is nominated. The reason stated: we ‘represent a public security risk’,” Grozev tweeted.

    “I understand the need to keep the public safe (although I don’t understand how my son or teenage daughter constitute risk to the public). But moments like this show the growing dangers to independent journalists around the world.”


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-bar-journalist-who-exposed-navalny-murder-plot-from-baftas-7q0ttkpg0

    I'd like to see more details about this.
    Have the police advised them that they can't guarantee their safety (which is bad enough) - or have they actually "banned" their attending as a "security risk" ?
    What is the legal basis for the police to stop someone attending a private event?

    If they have intelligence that he is at risk of being the victim of a crime rather than being the risk himself, they should be taking steps to protect him.
    To say the police aren't having a great year would be an understatement.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,252

    malcolmg said:

    kinabalu said:

    malcolmg said:

    Eabhal said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see everyone down south is copying the standard of hysterics we expect from Leon, clowns everywhere dribbling over one bollox poll, dearie dearie me.

    How many barrels of cask strength turnip juice have you got through, since the news?

    You've definitely lost the angry edge today. Is it possible, dare I suggest, that you are happy?
    Bit of both , glad the wicked witch is gone , apprehensive that the Macbeths will be in Bute House and we will be back where we started. Time someone published the e-mails.
    Are there any SNP candidates you would be happy with? Forbes, or is she still too close to the Sturgeon set?
    Would not want any of Sturgeon's lot, all just butt lickers. Forbes has never went against anything re Sturgeon and chose to duck GRR rather than even abstain on GRR, so not sure on her. Macbeths will be a disaster for obvious reasons if you are Scottish and most of rest are just seat warmers, so answer is not sure at all who I would want. Maybe Ash Regan may be best of bad lot. Totally shocked that people are suggesting Humza Useless could even throw his hat in the ring.
    Bit meandering but most have beenso scared to say boo to Sturgeon or have been serious butt lickers to know if any talent there at all, so Forbes or Regan it would have to be.
    What about the betting fav - Robertson?
    Never , Macbeths would be the worst possible choice, pure poison and too many rattling skeletons.
    But I like him. He has personality, the gift of the gab. Speaks and interviews very well. Very tricksy - as Gollum would put it.

    Robertson’s approach would be trying to expose the archaic inadequacies of system of Westminster, while attempting to strike a healthy balance of disruption and playing them at their own game in seeking the independence vote, and manage Scottish government as pragmatically and creatively as possible.

    He would be good at all that wouldn’t he?

    Maybe you are too hung up on personalities and actually having to like them, rather than what they can do for Scottish Independence?
    Then again you don't know what I know
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,173

    Carnyx said:

    On topic: David Clegg (who I am not familiar with) has this to say in the Washington Post:
    source$: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/02/16/nicola-sturgeon-snp-scotland-politics/

    "The SNP has won eight elections in eight years under Sturgeon, and few observers believed the next British general election, due no later than January 2025, would see Scotland return a substantively different result."

    And:
    "Sturgeon’s farewell offered no self-reflection about her own contributions to the country’s polarization, but that might have been beside the point. Lately the tribal nature of the independence debate in Scotland — amplified by the social media echo chamber — has made the normal functioning of politics seem next to impossible. Is that any different from the impact of Brexit in Britain or of Donald Trump in the United States?"

    I don't know enough about Sturgeon and Scottish politics to have an opinion on the piece, but thought many of you might like to know about it.

    (Though I will say the piece does have a touch of those famous lines about the people failing the government.)

    David Clegg is the editor of the Dundee Courier, owned by a firm wehich is generally regarded as anti-independence, certainly in its other newspaper the Sunday Post. But of course this is not a D C Thomson newspaper he is publishing in.
    Didn’t DC Thompson do comics?
    Still do, including in the Sunday Post, which to many folk, and certainly me in my younger days, is a comic with some news. It's where the Broons and Oor Wullie are published.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,971
    edited February 2023
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see everyone down south is copying the standard of hysterics we expect from Leon, clowns everywhere dribbling over one bollox poll, dearie dearie me.

    How many barrels of cask strength turnip juice have you got through, since the news?

    You've definitely lost the angry edge today. Is it possible, dare I suggest, that you are happy?
    Mlamesbury, I am always happy , and it is Friday and will soon be time for a refreshment then dinner and a pleasant evening with my good wife. What more could a man ask for.
    "Angus. Have I no been a good wife to you?"

    "Aye lass you have"

    "And Have I no darned your socks and brought up your four bairns?"

    "Aye lass You have"

    "Have I no cleaned the house fed the chickens and milked the cows?"

    "Aye lass you have"

    "Angus I'm dying"

    "Aye lass you are"

    "Can I ask a favour before I go?"

    "Aye lass. You can"

    "At the funeral will you let my sister sit with you and the family?"

    "Aye lass..........you can"

    "But it'll spoil my day"

    (Stanley Baxter)



  • Options
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Fieldwork pre-resignation so that 38% for the SNP will drop further, could see them end up on ca. 30% by election date and Labour on 45%.

    I think independence is dead. Scotland had one chance, they bottled it.

    It’s not dead. But it is now properly dormant. Which has serious ramifications for the SNP - because their record on everything else (except chasing Indy) is lamentable

    This is great news for Scotland. Scottish voters might now look beyond Indy and think: Who will best use the powers we have? Who is best for the Scottish economy and people?

    It isn’t the Nits


    It i seven more certain it ain't any of the dire opposition London sock puppet parties. There is nowhere else to go , they are the pick of the bunch. IT will only matter if no independence minded / anyone with IQ above 50 decides not to vote.
    Sorry, what does this mean in English (or Scottish?)
    For those unable to comprehend what a 3 year old could. The opposition is such crap that any person of any intelligence could only vote SNP or not vote.
    So you support Scotland becoming independent and running all its own affairs but there is no-one in Scotland, inside or outside the SNP, capable of running Scotland competently? A bit of a contradiction, no?
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,252

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Fieldwork pre-resignation so that 38% for the SNP will drop further, could see them end up on ca. 30% by election date and Labour on 45%.

    I think independence is dead. Scotland had one chance, they bottled it.

    It’s not dead. But it is now properly dormant. Which has serious ramifications for the SNP - because their record on everything else (except chasing Indy) is lamentable

    This is great news for Scotland. Scottish voters might now look beyond Indy and think: Who will best use the powers we have? Who is best for the Scottish economy and people?

    It isn’t the Nits


    It i seven more certain it ain't any of the dire opposition London sock puppet parties. There is nowhere else to go , they are the pick of the bunch. IT will only matter if no independence minded / anyone with IQ above 50 decides not to vote.
    Sorry, what does this mean in English (or Scottish?)
    For those unable to comprehend what a 3 year old could. The opposition is such crap that any person of any intelligence could only vote SNP or not vote.
    So you support Scotland becoming independent and running all its own affairs but there is no-one in Scotland, inside or outside the SNP, capable of running Scotland competently? A bit of a contradiction, no?
    Not at all, the SNP are the only Scottish party and so should be running the country, fact that current bunch are crap is an annoyance but better than any London carpetbaggers. If independent then we would see some real Scottish opposition parties which would mean SNP would have to shape up or ship out.
  • Options
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    On topic: David Clegg (who I am not familiar with) has this to say in the Washington Post:
    source$: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/02/16/nicola-sturgeon-snp-scotland-politics/

    "The SNP has won eight elections in eight years under Sturgeon, and few observers believed the next British general election, due no later than January 2025, would see Scotland return a substantively different result."

    And:
    "Sturgeon’s farewell offered no self-reflection about her own contributions to the country’s polarization, but that might have been beside the point. Lately the tribal nature of the independence debate in Scotland — amplified by the social media echo chamber — has made the normal functioning of politics seem next to impossible. Is that any different from the impact of Brexit in Britain or of Donald Trump in the United States?"

    I don't know enough about Sturgeon and Scottish politics to have an opinion on the piece, but thought many of you might like to know about it.

    (Though I will say the piece does have a touch of those famous lines about the people failing the government.)

    David Clegg is the editor of the Dundee Courier, owned by a firm wehich is generally regarded as anti-independence, certainly in its other newspaper the Sunday Post. But of course this is not a D C Thomson newspaper he is publishing in.
    Didn’t DC Thompson do comics?
    Still do, including in the Sunday Post, which to many folk, and certainly me in my younger days, is a comic with some news. It's where the Broons and Oor Wullie are published.
    And, back in the day, ITV in Southern England.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,689
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    kinabalu said:

    malcolmg said:

    Eabhal said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see everyone down south is copying the standard of hysterics we expect from Leon, clowns everywhere dribbling over one bollox poll, dearie dearie me.

    How many barrels of cask strength turnip juice have you got through, since the news?

    You've definitely lost the angry edge today. Is it possible, dare I suggest, that you are happy?
    Bit of both , glad the wicked witch is gone , apprehensive that the Macbeths will be in Bute House and we will be back where we started. Time someone published the e-mails.
    Are there any SNP candidates you would be happy with? Forbes, or is she still too close to the Sturgeon set?
    Would not want any of Sturgeon's lot, all just butt lickers. Forbes has never went against anything re Sturgeon and chose to duck GRR rather than even abstain on GRR, so not sure on her. Macbeths will be a disaster for obvious reasons if you are Scottish and most of rest are just seat warmers, so answer is not sure at all who I would want. Maybe Ash Regan may be best of bad lot. Totally shocked that people are suggesting Humza Useless could even throw his hat in the ring.
    Bit meandering but most have beenso scared to say boo to Sturgeon or have been serious butt lickers to know if any talent there at all, so Forbes or Regan it would have to be.
    What about the betting fav - Robertson?
    Never , Macbeths would be the worst possible choice, pure poison and too many rattling skeletons.
    But I like him. He has personality, the gift of the gab. Speaks and interviews very well. Very tricksy - as Gollum would put it.

    Robertson’s approach would be trying to expose the archaic inadequacies of system of Westminster, while attempting to strike a healthy balance of disruption and playing them at their own game in seeking the independence vote, and manage Scottish government as pragmatically and creatively as possible.

    He would be good at all that wouldn’t he?

    Maybe you are too hung up on personalities and actually having to like them, rather than what they can do for Scottish Independence?
    Then again you don't know what I know
    What do you know about Emma Roddick. actually even younger than me, quick witted, can eloquently debate, has amazing back story. She can only get even better at this career in the coming years?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDZLiklbWW8&t=64s
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,919

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Taz said:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/labour-plans-community-courts-to-punish-antisocial-offenders-9s9dc62gn

    Labour plans ‘community courts’ to punish antisocial offenders

    Labour doesn't have any policies.

    Well it's not much better than the new Labour days of ASBO's and threatening to march anti social offenders off to cashpoints to pay fines.

    It strikes of a lack of any will to invest in the legal system
    Re-inventing Magistrates Courts?

    Why not just hire more magistrates? It's not like they are that expensive.
    Plus look at who they want sitting in judgement..teachers and sports coaches, so called community leaders usually who are self selecting and most dont think represent them at all...MCB for example.

    All of whom will likely have past history with the majority of the defendants are going to be coming at it unbiassed.
    Community restorative Justice in Northern Ireland.

    AKA give the kneecappers a job
    It's a recipe for people to get revenge, cf revolutionary france, witch trials etc. People with no training passing sentence on people for things that aren't actually crimes such as we saw with many asbo's who have prior contact with the accused.....yeah thats going to end well
    I recall the upset here a while back, when I related the story of the hedge fund manager who hired private security for his village. Apparently having private security guards just watching the local criminals was a bad thing.

    Can you imagine if he'd got to be some kind of ersatz magistrate?
    According to this, the Wild West was wild because it depended on private lawmen, from sheriffs via detective agencies to bounty hunters.
    https://bigthink.com/the-past/wild-west-lawless/
    More because the the local "Law" was elected/selected by whoever had local power. In many cases the difference between the outlaws and the lawmen was marginal. See the Lincoln County War etc.
  • Options
    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,196
    Kate Forbes appears to have traditional right-of-centre values. I would not be averse to voting SNP under her leadership. A Thatcherite independent Scotland when the r-UK is zombified by Starmer's claque would be fine by me.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,951
    geoffw said:

    Kate Forbes appears to have traditional right-of-centre values. I would not be averse to voting SNP under her leadership. A Thatcherite independent Scotland when the r-UK is zombified by Starmer's claque would be fine by me.

    Haha. You fear Labour will ruin all the stunning successes of the past 13 years. It's a view, I suppose.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,303
    Sturgeon’s short list of what she had actually achieved in the real world descended quickly to boasting about the “baby box” given to all new mothers, which includes a poem, emery boards, spare underwear, toys and condoms (which sounds like the contents of Boris Johnson’s glove box). It doesn’t, though, include baby milk powder. The Barnett formula is separate.

    So what or, indeed, who now? It is possible that the SNP will follow the Tory playbook exactly and briefly appoint a leader who is three slices short of the full box of shortbread before crashing the economy and then themselves. But assuming they are not yet at that stage of derangement, they are instead looking for their own Rishi Sunak: someone willing to take on the thankless task of defending an indefensible domestic record while looking ahead to near-certain political decline.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-magic-was-gone-but-now-nicola-sturgeon-can-focus-on-writing-her-memoirs-n2swct37q
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,173

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    On topic: David Clegg (who I am not familiar with) has this to say in the Washington Post:
    source$: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/02/16/nicola-sturgeon-snp-scotland-politics/

    "The SNP has won eight elections in eight years under Sturgeon, and few observers believed the next British general election, due no later than January 2025, would see Scotland return a substantively different result."

    And:
    "Sturgeon’s farewell offered no self-reflection about her own contributions to the country’s polarization, but that might have been beside the point. Lately the tribal nature of the independence debate in Scotland — amplified by the social media echo chamber — has made the normal functioning of politics seem next to impossible. Is that any different from the impact of Brexit in Britain or of Donald Trump in the United States?"

    I don't know enough about Sturgeon and Scottish politics to have an opinion on the piece, but thought many of you might like to know about it.

    (Though I will say the piece does have a touch of those famous lines about the people failing the government.)

    David Clegg is the editor of the Dundee Courier, owned by a firm wehich is generally regarded as anti-independence, certainly in its other newspaper the Sunday Post. But of course this is not a D C Thomson newspaper he is publishing in.
    Didn’t DC Thompson do comics?
    Still do, including in the Sunday Post, which to many folk, and certainly me in my younger days, is a comic with some news. It's where the Broons and Oor Wullie are published.
    And, back in the day, ITV in Southern England.
    ITV?
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,173
    Scott_xP said:

    Sturgeon’s short list of what she had actually achieved in the real world descended quickly to boasting about the “baby box” given to all new mothers, which includes a poem, emery boards, spare underwear, toys and condoms (which sounds like the contents of Boris Johnson’s glove box). It doesn’t, though, include baby milk powder. The Barnett formula is separate.

    So what or, indeed, who now? It is possible that the SNP will follow the Tory playbook exactly and briefly appoint a leader who is three slices short of the full box of shortbread before crashing the economy and then themselves. But assuming they are not yet at that stage of derangement, they are instead looking for their own Rishi Sunak: someone willing to take on the thankless task of defending an indefensible domestic record while looking ahead to near-certain political decline.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-magic-was-gone-but-now-nicola-sturgeon-can-focus-on-writing-her-memoirs-n2swct37q

    Mr Chorley is a comedian. Now that's fair enough: so are President Zelenskii and Mr Johnson. But I have serious reservations about anyone who judges it hilarious and original to talk about shortbread in a Scottish context.
  • Options
    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,196

    geoffw said:

    Kate Forbes appears to have traditional right-of-centre values. I would not be averse to voting SNP under her leadership. A Thatcherite independent Scotland when the r-UK is zombified by Starmer's claque would be fine by me.

    Haha. You fear Labour will ruin all the stunning successes of the past 13 years. It's a view, I suppose.
    Actually I'd perhaps not go so far as voting for independence, but a devolved Thatcherite Scotland would be a treat.

  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,689
    geoffw said:

    Kate Forbes appears to have traditional right-of-centre values. I would not be averse to voting SNP under her leadership. A Thatcherite independent Scotland when the r-UK is zombified by Starmer's claque would be fine by me.

    Kate Bloodaxe Skullsplitter Forbes? Seriously?

    The SNP only have such firm control of Scottish Government and 50 MPs because of trusted liberal social values and left of centre economic ones under Sturgeon. To drift so far right on both really would threaten their polling support.
  • Options
    sarissasarissa Posts: 1,806
    kinabalu said:

    malcolmg said:

    Eabhal said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see everyone down south is copying the standard of hysterics we expect from Leon, clowns everywhere dribbling over one bollox poll, dearie dearie me.

    How many barrels of cask strength turnip juice have you got through, since the news?

    You've definitely lost the angry edge today. Is it possible, dare I suggest, that you are happy?
    Bit of both , glad the wicked witch is gone , apprehensive that the Macbeths will be in Bute House and we will be back where we started. Time someone published the e-mails.
    Are there any SNP candidates you would be happy with? Forbes, or is she still too close to the Sturgeon set?
    Would not want any of Sturgeon's lot, all just butt lickers. Forbes has never went against anything re Sturgeon and chose to duck GRR rather than even abstain on GRR, so not sure on her. Macbeths will be a disaster for obvious reasons if you are Scottish and most of rest are just seat warmers, so answer is not sure at all who I would want. Maybe Ash Regan may be best of bad lot. Totally shocked that people are suggesting Humza Useless could even throw his hat in the ring.
    Bit meandering but most have beenso scared to say boo to Sturgeon or have been serious butt lickers to know if any talent there at all, so Forbes or Regan it would have to be.
    What about the betting fav - Robertson?
    A slight drift in his price - the only significant moves on Ladbrokes are Keith Brown from 20/1 to 12, and Ash Regan (my outside pick) from 66 to 16. May be a thin market as yet though.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,252

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    kinabalu said:

    malcolmg said:

    Eabhal said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see everyone down south is copying the standard of hysterics we expect from Leon, clowns everywhere dribbling over one bollox poll, dearie dearie me.

    How many barrels of cask strength turnip juice have you got through, since the news?

    You've definitely lost the angry edge today. Is it possible, dare I suggest, that you are happy?
    Bit of both , glad the wicked witch is gone , apprehensive that the Macbeths will be in Bute House and we will be back where we started. Time someone published the e-mails.
    Are there any SNP candidates you would be happy with? Forbes, or is she still too close to the Sturgeon set?
    Would not want any of Sturgeon's lot, all just butt lickers. Forbes has never went against anything re Sturgeon and chose to duck GRR rather than even abstain on GRR, so not sure on her. Macbeths will be a disaster for obvious reasons if you are Scottish and most of rest are just seat warmers, so answer is not sure at all who I would want. Maybe Ash Regan may be best of bad lot. Totally shocked that people are suggesting Humza Useless could even throw his hat in the ring.
    Bit meandering but most have beenso scared to say boo to Sturgeon or have been serious butt lickers to know if any talent there at all, so Forbes or Regan it would have to be.
    What about the betting fav - Robertson?
    Never , Macbeths would be the worst possible choice, pure poison and too many rattling skeletons.
    But I like him. He has personality, the gift of the gab. Speaks and interviews very well. Very tricksy - as Gollum would put it.

    Robertson’s approach would be trying to expose the archaic inadequacies of system of Westminster, while attempting to strike a healthy balance of disruption and playing them at their own game in seeking the independence vote, and manage Scottish government as pragmatically and creatively as possible.

    He would be good at all that wouldn’t he?

    Maybe you are too hung up on personalities and actually having to like them, rather than what they can do for Scottish Independence?
    Then again you don't know what I know
    What do you know about Emma Roddick. actually even younger than me, quick witted, can eloquently debate, has amazing back story. She can only get even better at this career in the coming years?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDZLiklbWW8&t=64s
    So good I have never heard her , invisible like most of the current bunch. They were never allowed to question or upstage Imelda. However not many of them apart from Ash Regan grew a backbone and questioned any command.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,252
    geoffw said:

    Kate Forbes appears to have traditional right-of-centre values. I would not be averse to voting SNP under her leadership. A Thatcherite independent Scotland when the r-UK is zombified by Starmer's claque would be fine by me.

    Certainly one of the few choices in a bad lot, hard to know how good or bad she is.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,173

    geoffw said:

    Kate Forbes appears to have traditional right-of-centre values. I would not be averse to voting SNP under her leadership. A Thatcherite independent Scotland when the r-UK is zombified by Starmer's claque would be fine by me.

    Kate Bloodaxe Skullsplitter Forbes? Seriously?

    The SNP only have such firm control of Scottish Government and 50 MPs because of trusted liberal social values and left of centre economic ones under Sturgeon. To drift so far right on both really would threaten their polling support.
    Did well enough under Mr Salmond, who is certainly not so close to the Greens etc.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,173
    Back to Brexit: still not completed (no. 4284):

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/feb/17/uk-risks-disastrous-food-scandal-lax-post-brexit-border-controls-nfu-chief-minette-batters

    'Britain is in danger of a “disastrous” food scandal, owing to lax post-Brexit border controls on agricultural imports, the leader of the UK’s biggest farming organisation has warned.

    Minette Batters, the president of the National Farmers’ Union, accused ministers of a “dereliction of duty” in failing to ensure food and other agricultural imports were safe. She said the government had failed to learn the lessons of the horsemeat scandal of 2013.'

    Gummer burgers Mk 2 coming sometime soon, I think.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,951
    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    Kate Forbes appears to have traditional right-of-centre values. I would not be averse to voting SNP under her leadership. A Thatcherite independent Scotland when the r-UK is zombified by Starmer's claque would be fine by me.

    Haha. You fear Labour will ruin all the stunning successes of the past 13 years. It's a view, I suppose.
    Actually I'd perhaps not go so far as voting for independence, but a devolved Thatcherite Scotland would be a treat.
    Given how popular Thatcher was in Scotland, I think you may have to dream on.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,571
    We can only hope that one or more of the Sundays will think it is worth investing in some post resignation poling for Scotland and give us a better idea of what is going on. At the moment the poll in the thread header looks just too good to be true to me.

    As that great Scot Adam Smith pointed out, "there's a great deal of ruination in a nation." I have little doubt that the same applies to a political party like the SNP which has been so dominant at every level of Scottish politics for so long and has the entire establishment dominated by their placemen and hangers on living off a myriad of public teats which keep producing even as the local authorities are incapable of funding essential public services.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,308
    Carnyx said:

    geoffw said:

    Kate Forbes appears to have traditional right-of-centre values. I would not be averse to voting SNP under her leadership. A Thatcherite independent Scotland when the r-UK is zombified by Starmer's claque would be fine by me.

    Kate Bloodaxe Skullsplitter Forbes? Seriously?

    The SNP only have such firm control of Scottish Government and 50 MPs because of trusted liberal social values and left of centre economic ones under Sturgeon. To drift so far right on both really would threaten their polling support.
    Did well enough under Mr Salmond, who is certainly not so close to the Greens etc.
    Was Mr Salmond a member of an anti homosexual marriage church and anti abortion like Forbes? No just economically slightly centre right and not too Woke
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,690
    edited February 2023
    Scott_xP said:

    Sturgeon’s short list of what she had actually achieved in the real world descended quickly to boasting about the “baby box” given to all new mothers, which includes a poem, emery boards, spare underwear, toys and condoms (which sounds like the contents of Boris Johnson’s glove box). It doesn’t, though, include baby milk powder. The Barnett formula is separate.

    So what or, indeed, who now? It is possible that the SNP will follow the Tory playbook exactly and briefly appoint a leader who is three slices short of the full box of shortbread before crashing the economy and then themselves. But assuming they are not yet at that stage of derangement, they are instead looking for their own Rishi Sunak: someone willing to take on the thankless task of defending an indefensible domestic record while looking ahead to near-certain political decline.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-magic-was-gone-but-now-nicola-sturgeon-can-focus-on-writing-her-memoirs-n2swct37q

    The Times still desperately defending the dismal decline manager and trying to pin his grotesque failure on the party I see.
  • Options
    carnforthcarnforth Posts: 3,272
    edited February 2023
    Carnyx said:

    Back to Brexit: still not completed (no. 4284):

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/feb/17/uk-risks-disastrous-food-scandal-lax-post-brexit-border-controls-nfu-chief-minette-batters

    'Britain is in danger of a “disastrous” food scandal, owing to lax post-Brexit border controls on agricultural imports, the leader of the UK’s biggest farming organisation has warned.

    Minette Batters, the president of the National Farmers’ Union, accused ministers of a “dereliction of duty” in failing to ensure food and other agricultural imports were safe. She said the government had failed to learn the lessons of the horsemeat scandal of 2013.'

    Gummer burgers Mk 2 coming sometime soon, I think.

    We weren't checking before, were we? Unless we have loosened checks on non-EU food, where is the regression?

    Nice of remainers to admit EU food quality is, in practice, lower than ours, even if the rules are strict, though.

    Spot checks reveal just how low:

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/port-officials-siezed-illegal-products-maggot-meat-dover-raid-b1033827.html
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,951
    edited February 2023
    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    Kate Forbes appears to have traditional right-of-centre values. I would not be averse to voting SNP under her leadership. A Thatcherite independent Scotland when the r-UK is zombified by Starmer's claque would be fine by me.

    Haha. You fear Labour will ruin all the stunning successes of the past 13 years. It's a view, I suppose.
    Actually I'd perhaps not go so far as voting for independence, but a devolved Thatcherite Scotland would be a treat.

    Are you in Scotland Geoff, or merely wishing Thatcherism on the Scots?
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,329
    Carnyx said:

    Back to Brexit: still not completed (no. 4284):

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/feb/17/uk-risks-disastrous-food-scandal-lax-post-brexit-border-controls-nfu-chief-minette-batters

    'Britain is in danger of a “disastrous” food scandal, owing to lax post-Brexit border controls on agricultural imports, the leader of the UK’s biggest farming organisation has warned.

    Minette Batters, the president of the National Farmers’ Union, accused ministers of a “dereliction of duty” in failing to ensure food and other agricultural imports were safe. She said the government had failed to learn the lessons of the horsemeat scandal of 2013.'

    Gummer burgers Mk 2 coming sometime soon, I think.

    The idea that we need more border checks on European goods is the most self-defeating of all anti-Brexit arguments.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,951
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    On topic: David Clegg (who I am not familiar with) has this to say in the Washington Post:
    source$: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/02/16/nicola-sturgeon-snp-scotland-politics/

    "The SNP has won eight elections in eight years under Sturgeon, and few observers believed the next British general election, due no later than January 2025, would see Scotland return a substantively different result."

    And:
    "Sturgeon’s farewell offered no self-reflection about her own contributions to the country’s polarization, but that might have been beside the point. Lately the tribal nature of the independence debate in Scotland — amplified by the social media echo chamber — has made the normal functioning of politics seem next to impossible. Is that any different from the impact of Brexit in Britain or of Donald Trump in the United States?"

    I don't know enough about Sturgeon and Scottish politics to have an opinion on the piece, but thought many of you might like to know about it.

    (Though I will say the piece does have a touch of those famous lines about the people failing the government.)

    David Clegg is the editor of the Dundee Courier, owned by a firm wehich is generally regarded as anti-independence, certainly in its other newspaper the Sunday Post. But of course this is not a D C Thomson newspaper he is publishing in.
    Didn’t DC Thompson do comics?
    Still do, including in the Sunday Post, which to many folk, and certainly me in my younger days, is a comic with some news. It's where the Broons and Oor Wullie are published.
    And, back in the day, ITV in Southern England.
    ITV?
    It's an old-style 'television channel' from back in the day.
  • Options
    ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,001
    geoffw said:

    Kate Forbes appears to have traditional right-of-centre values. I would not be averse to voting SNP under her leadership. A Thatcherite independent Scotland when the r-UK is zombified by Starmer's claque would be fine by me.

    She seems to me to be getting a lot of the same projection as Penny or Kemi did around the Tory leadership elections last year. She certainly comes across as very competent - but beyond that? Leader? Campaigner? Team Manager? I don't know.

    Although coming across as very competent is obviously a good start!
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,968
    edited February 2023
    darkage said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/feb/13/tory-vice-chair-lee-anderson-faces-libel-claim-over-bribery-allegations

    I get that Lee Anderson says 'what people think' and that this is important in a democracy, but it is quite off putting for other prospective voters; by escalating him to vice-chair this type of thing cannot be just dismissed as the rantings of a backbencher and probably puts a lot of other people off voting Conservative.

    I don't think this from Mr Hollis (senior) will be going very far.

    The stuff the G is *not* reporting, especially around Mr Hollis (junior), is potentially far more .. interesting.

    Mr Anderson certainly shoots his mouth off sometimes, and I'm not sure what his game is here - whether it is just shooting his mouth off or something more carefully calibrated. I have no idea how well-advised he is on political shooting-his-mouth-off strategy, if at all.

    Have a great evening.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,308
    edited February 2023

    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    Kate Forbes appears to have traditional right-of-centre values. I would not be averse to voting SNP under her leadership. A Thatcherite independent Scotland when the r-UK is zombified by Starmer's claque would be fine by me.

    Haha. You fear Labour will ruin all the stunning successes of the past 13 years. It's a view, I suppose.
    Actually I'd perhaps not go so far as voting for independence, but a devolved Thatcherite Scotland would be a treat.
    Given how popular Thatcher was in Scotland, I think you may have to dream on.
    Forbes is a Starmer and Sarwar wet dream! Social liberals would desert the SNP for SLab and the Greens in droves if she succeeded Sturgeon.

    She wouldn't be so good for the Tories though as she would win over some Thatcherites and religious social conservatives currently voting SCon
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,173

    Carnyx said:

    Back to Brexit: still not completed (no. 4284):

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/feb/17/uk-risks-disastrous-food-scandal-lax-post-brexit-border-controls-nfu-chief-minette-batters

    'Britain is in danger of a “disastrous” food scandal, owing to lax post-Brexit border controls on agricultural imports, the leader of the UK’s biggest farming organisation has warned.

    Minette Batters, the president of the National Farmers’ Union, accused ministers of a “dereliction of duty” in failing to ensure food and other agricultural imports were safe. She said the government had failed to learn the lessons of the horsemeat scandal of 2013.'

    Gummer burgers Mk 2 coming sometime soon, I think.

    The idea that we need more border checks on European goods is the most self-defeating of all anti-Brexit arguments.
    This is a *farmer* leading the *NFU* speaking.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,522
    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    Kate Forbes appears to have traditional right-of-centre values. I would not be averse to voting SNP under her leadership. A Thatcherite independent Scotland when the r-UK is zombified by Starmer's claque would be fine by me.

    Haha. You fear Labour will ruin all the stunning successes of the past 13 years. It's a view, I suppose.
    Actually I'd perhaps not go so far as voting for independence, but a devolved Thatcherite Scotland would be a treat.
    Isn't this unlikely given one of the main ways Scotland differs from England - supplying much of the logic for separation - is being more attuned to a collective as opposed to an individualistic view of society?
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,173
    edited February 2023
    carnforth said:

    Carnyx said:

    Back to Brexit: still not completed (no. 4284):

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/feb/17/uk-risks-disastrous-food-scandal-lax-post-brexit-border-controls-nfu-chief-minette-batters

    'Britain is in danger of a “disastrous” food scandal, owing to lax post-Brexit border controls on agricultural imports, the leader of the UK’s biggest farming organisation has warned.

    Minette Batters, the president of the National Farmers’ Union, accused ministers of a “dereliction of duty” in failing to ensure food and other agricultural imports were safe. She said the government had failed to learn the lessons of the horsemeat scandal of 2013.'

    Gummer burgers Mk 2 coming sometime soon, I think.

    We weren't checking before, were we? Unless we have loosened checks on non-EU food, where is the regression?

    Nice of remainers to admit EU food quality is, in practice, lower than ours, even if the rules are strict, though.

    Spot checks reveal just how low:

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/port-officials-siezed-illegal-products-maggot-meat-dover-raid-b1033827.html
    The NFU are remainers?

    But it's one effect of HMG(London)'s complete imability to organise a brexit.
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