Countess Felicity Cunliffe Lister, who lives in a castle, gains a North Yorkshire County Council seat for the Liberal Democrats from the Conservatives.
Further proof the LDs are now the posh party, not the Tories
Very interesting. There is one question most evangelicals in the CoE are not wanting to address.
On the whole evangelicals accept as a fact among their membership divorce and remarriage, and quite often perform remarriages and blessings thereof.
Jesus bans all or most divorce (depends which gospel) and all remarriage without exception. Paul bans all remarriage.
The contrast between this and their attitude to gays in stark and interesting. Despite the rhetoric it appears to be little to do with a consistent line on the bible.
It's not the complete answer, but there is a thread from elite public schools to the higher profile conservative evangelical end of the Church of England; Bash Camps and all that.
Some of the quirks of sexual ethics come from there.
Leading Church of England evangelicals tend to be sporty, ex public school and Oxbridge and other top universities HTB types.
Leading Church of England liberal Catholics and Anglo Catholics tend to be ex public school and grammar school humanities and arts graduates from Oxbridge and other top universities who like dressing up and proper BCP and incense filled communion
Anglo-Catholics generally prefer to dress up as women and give each other nicknames like Tawdry Audrey.
Very interesting. There is one question most evangelicals in the CoE are not wanting to address.
On the whole evangelicals accept as a fact among their membership divorce and remarriage, and quite often perform remarriages and blessings thereof.
Jesus bans all or most divorce (depends which gospel) and all remarriage without exception. Paul bans all remarriage.
The contrast between this and their attitude to gays in stark and interesting. Despite the rhetoric it appears to be little to do with a consistent line on the bible.
Jesus (unlike the OT) didn't speak out against gays, while did against re-marriage.
Neither were his main message though. He was much tougher on Pharisees and hypocrites who profess piety yet persecute others.
Are widow/ers allowed to remarry by the NT?
I don’t think the National Trust has a firm position
Countess Felicity Cunliffe Lister, who lives in a castle, gains a North Yorkshire County Council seat for the Liberal Democrats from the Conservatives.
Further proof the LDs are now the posh party, not the Tories
The ballooons-are-ET story is still given credence by the Guardian tonight. This is quite remarkable in itself
Octagonal with strings hanging down? Surely the strings were observed visually? Don't US airforce pilots wear camera goggles?
What happened to the Colombia balloon?
If the Montana object didn't exist, what caused the radar malfunction or misinterpretation, bearing in mind the report that the Alaska object affected sensors? Montana isn't quite Nevada but it has a long history of meep meep UFO sightings.
I will watch "The Wandering Earth" tonight to get more of a handle on the Chinese side of this. Then the prequel if I can find an English dub. F*** subtitles.
The US military are deliberately giving the impression they don't know what's going on. Which doesn't mean it's false. But they are deliberately doing it. They didn't have to say "Some pilots reported sensor influence. Some didn't" - unless they wanted to.
Unlikely that none of the three smaller objects have been recovered.
I bet they turn out to be exceptionally well-built Chinese lanterns released for Chinese New Year.
Since a few of you are interested in the whole UFO thing, I'll mention a possibility I haven't seen here, this one from Larry Niven's short story, "War Movie". (You can find the story in his "Limits" collection.)
Some alien qarasht have been observing earth since World War II, and made a profitable movie of that conflict. Inspired by that success, they set up many more recording devices -- at great expense -- and waited for World War III. And the war didn't come, and didn't come, partly because of technology that humans have been getting from other alien species.
And so the qarasht in this company (as I suppose we can call it) are bankrupt. Their society has rather strict rules on bankruptcy, so when they return home, as they must, they will go into organ banks, in pieces, to be given to more successful qarasht who need transplants.
(Do I think there is anything to this? No, but it seems as plasuible as some of the other suggestions I've seen here, though less plausible than a UFO short story by Poul Anderson, "Peek! I See You!".)
I love early sci-fi, but it dies have a bad habit of anthropomorphising aliens.
I enjoy sci-fi which tries to explore genuinely alien forms of thought and existence, and how that would interact with humanity, but I don't mind the type which is essentially just an exploration of more humanistic otherness with an alien face.
I really enjoyed the Uplift series, and its vision of a billion year old galactic culture as basically a conservative bureacratic nightmare, with the occasional plodding drift into genocidal conflict before settling back down to inertia again.
Plus it was just funny that earth developed 'Danikenite' media and politics, as it turned out (for the rest of the galaxy at the least) that aliens messing with lower cultures was in fact totally correct.
Radical socialist Jesus who doesn’t care what people do in bed is as anachronistic as the Jesus who blesses the missiles on their way to Beijing.
But more to be said:
Thus John Crossan:
"There is an oft-repeated and rather cheap gibe that historical Jesus researchers are simply looking down a deep well and seeing their own reflections from below. I call it cheap because those who use it against others seldom apply it to themselves. Second, it is almost impossible to imagine a reconstruction that could not be dismissed by the assertion of that gibe...What could anyone ever say that would not fall under that ban?" (The Birth of Christianity, p 41)
“The Pentagon is yet to recover debris from the three UFOs shot down this weekend over Alaska, Canada and Michigan and is yet to offer any kind of explanation as to what they are, how they were able to fly, or whether they pose a genuine threat to America.”
...so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.
The White House however has just said "there is no evidence of aliens or extra terrestrial activity".
“so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.“
The Mail’s front page today shows how badly they are losing it. That arch remainers will meet in a country house and go through a PowerPoint slide pack is not a news story - that arch brexiteers like Gove joined them is a news story, but not the angle the mail is reporting on - arch remainers plot against Brexit is how they splashing it you have to read down to find the incendiary facts Gove and other leader brexiteers were there. 😆
Brexit has really gone super-exclusive if Gove is no longer deemed a 'proper' Leaver.
Proper Leaverdom is very loosely correlated with reality. Remainer Truss is a Proper Leaver, passionate leaver Sunak is not.
I don't think we need such abstract concepts as personality/'connection to reality' (as defined by remainers naturally) to judge 'proper' leaverdom. Proper leavers wish us to use the flexibility afforded by Brexit for the benefit of the UK. That may involve actually repealing some EU laws, stepping away from some EU projects, tax cuts that were hitherto forbidden, institutional changes away from harmonised administration across the bloc etc. Some want all of those, some just some. A 'not-proper' leaver may speak through gritted teeth about 'the opportunities of Brexit' but will oppose any moves like those above that would make hiccoughs on the road to rejoining. That's why it is difficult to call Sunak or Gove 'proper leavers' at this time.
It has to be said, though...
When two of the top politicians who pushed for Brexit before it was fashionable are being called "not proper leavers"... It's a rum do, isn't it?
Not really. It means they've simply caved to the various external and internal pressures. Gove and Sunak's personal views on Brexit are irrelevant. Don't forget we have a Chancellor who believes the best rate of corporation tax is 15%, but who is soon to put it up from 19% to 25%.
Whilst it is true sometimes you need to stand a little firm in the face of some pressure in order to enact a needed change, where is the line between 'I do not cave to pressure' and 'I ignore reality'.
This is a very good question. Truss was an example of a bull in a china shop approach that didn't get us anywhere. We need a PM that pursues the national interest, but that pursuing doesn't necessarily mean flouncing around being rude to Joe Biden - often it will involve diplomacy, persuasion, charm, compromise, and working well with others. But occasionally it will involve having some balls and being the unpopular one in the room. Sunak isn't that person and therefore puts our country at risk.
Very interesting. There is one question most evangelicals in the CoE are not wanting to address.
On the whole evangelicals accept as a fact among their membership divorce and remarriage, and quite often perform remarriages and blessings thereof.
Jesus bans all or most divorce (depends which gospel) and all remarriage without exception. Paul bans all remarriage.
The contrast between this and their attitude to gays in stark and interesting. Despite the rhetoric it appears to be little to do with a consistent line on the bible.
Jesus (unlike the OT) didn't speak out against gays, while did against re-marriage.
Neither were his main message though. He was much tougher on Pharisees and hypocrites who profess piety yet persecute others.
Are widow/ers allowed to remarry by the NT?
I don’t think the National Trust has a firm position
If this lot think the National Trust are going soft on same-sex marriage they'll be bursting a few blood vessels again:
Very interesting. There is one question most evangelicals in the CoE are not wanting to address.
On the whole evangelicals accept as a fact among their membership divorce and remarriage, and quite often perform remarriages and blessings thereof.
Jesus bans all or most divorce (depends which gospel) and all remarriage without exception. Paul bans all remarriage.
The contrast between this and their attitude to gays in stark and interesting. Despite the rhetoric it appears to be little to do with a consistent line on the bible.
Jesus (unlike the OT) didn't speak out against gays, while did against re-marriage.
Neither were his main message though. He was much tougher on Pharisees and hypocrites who profess piety yet persecute others.
Are widow/ers allowed to remarry by the NT?
Nothing springs to mind immediately.
Matthew 19 also appears to speak favourably of emasculation. Not a vastly popular evangelical custom.
All forms of biblicism and fundamentalism are flawed and doomed. You end up in denial about why and how you self interestedly select.
Well, yes. All has to be read in the context of its time - but as Foxy suggests, it’s hardly impossible to intuit or understand the principles behind Jesus’s recorded teachings which might be more universally applicable.
Countess Felicity Cunliffe Lister, who lives in a castle, gains a North Yorkshire County Council seat for the Liberal Democrats from the Conservatives.
Further proof the LDs are now the posh party, not the Tories
My guess is Sunak's election strategy away-day in Chequers has resulted in a decision for a defensive strat, which explains the above. Anti-woke will trigger the Left (hugely and vociferously) and rally some votes to his side. He wouldn't do it without focus groups and polling to support it.
But, it's telling in itself, of course. Means he knows he can no longer win.
As has been noted there is a danger here as well - when they lose, which they probably will in some fashion, the argument will be that all those things they raised against must not bother the electorate that much, or are in fact supported.
Yes, indeed, and what won't be asked is how much worse the defeat would have been if they hadn't.
For what it's worth, I think this animates the activists and the friendly media to rally the troops a bit. He's thinking of the votes of the Sean Thomas's of this world, not the orange bookers.
Now the White House — under fire for a lack of transparency over the incursions — must contend with frustrated lawmakers and a mystified public, amid the Biden administration’s failure to launch a coherent communications strategy about the shootdowns.
“In times of uncertainty, leaders need to be as transparent as possible with the public,” Larry Hogan, the former Republican governor from Maryland, tweeted Monday. “After shooting down three airborne objects, President Biden needs to communicate directly with the nation about what we know and what we don’t.”
Why do you think the US has a semiconductor industry in the first place ?
I'd prefer to have some of the highly profitable industries in the UK.
US universities, national laboratories, and west coast electronics companies clustering, plus a whole load of Cold War spending, especially on electronics for aircraft, air defence, and ballistic missiles. The desire to integrate components and build more robust systems lead to the sort of electronics production that later facilitated LSI for computer systems, and ultimately enabled the micro-computer. I'm pretty sure that giving enormous tax breaks to already huge and highly profitable companies paid no real part in it, but if I'm wrong someone can pipe up.
As Max pointed out, and as you just described, it is about funding.
The US government bought 90% of US (& the world's) semiconductor production in the industry's early years.
And the startups quoted in the article I linked are neither huge nor yet highly profitable.
Yup, if the government facilitated guaranteed buyers within the UK and subsidised the difference between global market price and buying from UK semiconductor companies for a period of 10 years it would probably be enough to get the industry going, but it would also cost tens of billions over that 10 years and even after that there's no guarantee that those companies will stay solvent once they are bidding for contracts on the open market.
Here, though, we're talking about specialist businesses. Paragraf, for instance, is developing graphene on semiconductor products.
More generally, it's about staying in the technology game. If too many leave, that becomes even harder to reverse.
I look at it the same way we did the Movie/TV subsidies which have been a huge, huge success and made the UK a TV and movie production super power. The initial costs are very high and the industry will always need some underlying support mechanism but the payoff is huge, visual media production is going to be our third largest single industry this decade after financial services and pharmaceuticals. When that production rebate was created it wasn't even in our top 20.
Completely screwed by Brexit. Your post should be in the past tense. Media has been one of the great success stories over the last 20 years. Pinewood and Shepperton have been doing roaring business backed by advertising production and all the ancillary services. A lot of the feeder industries have historically originated by the BBC which has recently been emasculated. Advertising which is the backbone of the success of the media industry and something which we have excelled at is now moving to Europe and Eastern Europe at that. It's going to go down as one of the greatest acts of self harm any country could have done to itself
Except this is just pure garbage from you. Film production revenue in the UK rose by 27% in 2022. Combined film and High End TV production revenue hit a record £6.3 billion (With $5.3 billion of that being inward investment) and according to the industry news they expect to be looking to fill an additional 20 - 40,000 vacancies by 2025. The UK advertising market grew by 10% last year to reach £35 billion. And PWC expect the UK to be the European leader in Entertainment and Media in their latest industry outlook.
Of course it did. It has been a massive and rapidly growing industry for at least 30 years. There are more UK advertising agencies around the world than there were in the UK. Our film studios -not just the big ones-have been proliferating at a rate of knots. Post production facilities had long ago outgrown Soho. It's now a massive industry. The only country who could compete with our expertise creativity and output has been the US.
But Film making is genuinely universal and the UK were sitting on the top of the pile. It is not unusual to be shooting for an American client selling a Spanish product shooting in Paris using a British production company German special effects and French /British /German crew. Make it more difficult and we lose an advantage that has taken us years to build up.
Very interesting. There is one question most evangelicals in the CoE are not wanting to address.
On the whole evangelicals accept as a fact among their membership divorce and remarriage, and quite often perform remarriages and blessings thereof.
Jesus bans all or most divorce (depends which gospel) and all remarriage without exception. Paul bans all remarriage.
The contrast between this and their attitude to gays in stark and interesting. Despite the rhetoric it appears to be little to do with a consistent line on the bible.
It's not the complete answer, but there is a thread from elite public schools to the higher profile conservative evangelical end of the Church of England; Bash Camps and all that.
Some of the quirks of sexual ethics come from there.
Leading Church of England evangelicals tend to be sporty, ex public school and Oxbridge and other top universities HTB types.
Leading Church of England liberal Catholics and Anglo Catholics tend to be ex public school and grammar school humanities and arts graduates from Oxbridge and other top universities who like dressing up and proper BCP and incense filled communion
Anglo-Catholics generally prefer to dress up as women and give each other nicknames like Tawdry Audrey.
There's probably less of the really high camp now than there used to be. After all, even Mirfield and St Stephen's are mixed these days.
I should resist the temptation to go through the CVs of Anglican bishops, but I will note that Stephen Cottrell went to a secondary modern and a polytechnic.
Countess Felicity Cunliffe Lister, who lives in a castle, gains a North Yorkshire County Council seat for the Liberal Democrats from the Conservatives.
Further proof the LDs are now the posh party, not the Tories
Leavers, home owning pensioners and the rich, high earners and posh
Sounds like the recipe for extinction.
No, the median voter is now aged 50 and voted Leave in 2016.
Since when we’re people aged 50 “pensioners”? Let alone home-owning, rich, high-earning and posh.
Over 50s were mainly Leavers and most at least own property with a mortgage. Over 60s own property outright mostly. They are the Conservatives core vote now.
As I said the rich, high earning posh will only tend to vote Tory v Labour now, otherwise they will vote LD
Very interesting. There is one question most evangelicals in the CoE are not wanting to address.
On the whole evangelicals accept as a fact among their membership divorce and remarriage, and quite often perform remarriages and blessings thereof.
Jesus bans all or most divorce (depends which gospel) and all remarriage without exception. Paul bans all remarriage.
The contrast between this and their attitude to gays in stark and interesting. Despite the rhetoric it appears to be little to do with a consistent line on the bible.
Jesus (unlike the OT) didn't speak out against gays, while did against re-marriage.
Neither were his main message though. He was much tougher on Pharisees and hypocrites who profess piety yet persecute others.
Are widow/ers allowed to remarry by the NT?
I don’t think the National Trust has a firm position
If this lot think the National Trust are going soft on same-sex marriage they'll be bursting a few blood vessels again:
Organisations like Restore Trust and GB News wouldn't exist if there wasn't such a monopoly of opinion amongst the career-builders in the 3rd sector and MSM.
Very interesting. There is one question most evangelicals in the CoE are not wanting to address.
On the whole evangelicals accept as a fact among their membership divorce and remarriage, and quite often perform remarriages and blessings thereof.
Jesus bans all or most divorce (depends which gospel) and all remarriage without exception. Paul bans all remarriage.
The contrast between this and their attitude to gays in stark and interesting. Despite the rhetoric it appears to be little to do with a consistent line on the bible.
It's not the complete answer, but there is a thread from elite public schools to the higher profile conservative evangelical end of the Church of England; Bash Camps and all that.
Some of the quirks of sexual ethics come from there.
Leading Church of England evangelicals tend to be sporty, ex public school and Oxbridge and other top universities HTB types.
Leading Church of England liberal Catholics and Anglo Catholics tend to be ex public school and grammar school humanities and arts graduates from Oxbridge and other top universities who like dressing up and proper BCP and incense filled communion
Anglo-Catholics generally prefer to dress up as women and give each other nicknames like Tawdry Audrey.
There's probably less of the really high camp now than there used to be. After all, even Mirfield and St Stephen's are mixed these days.
I should resist the temptation to go through the CVs of Anglican bishops, but I will note that Stephen Cottrell went to a secondary modern and a polytechnic.
Countess Felicity Cunliffe Lister, who lives in a castle, gains a North Yorkshire County Council seat for the Liberal Democrats from the Conservatives.
Further proof the LDs are now the posh party, not the Tories
Leavers, home owning pensioners and the rich, high earners and posh
Sounds like the recipe for extinction.
No, the median voter is now aged 50 and voted Leave in 2016.
Since when we’re people aged 50 “pensioners”? Let alone home-owning, rich, high-earning and posh.
Over 50s are Leavers and most at least own property with a mortgage. Over 60s own property outright mostly. They are the Conservatives core vote now.
As I said the rich, high earning posh will only tend to vote Tory v Labour now, otherwise they will vote LD
Social proof and snobbery drives a lot of voting behaviour amongst British elites.
Once, that drove such votes overwhelmingly in a Conservative direction. Nowadays, it can be Labour in north London and the intellectual mets, LD in the posh and very high earning suburbs and spa towns, and still Conservative for the hunting and shooting set in the rural Shires.
The Tories have nothing to offer and so will engage in a desperate culture war in the run up to the next GE . Aswell as that the “ boat people “ will be used to get the angry mob going and the right wing hate papers will dupe their readership into voting away their rights .
No 10 knows only too well that their new policy to be unveiled soon to tackle the Channel crossings has been designed to fail and to end up in the ECHR where the so called “ evil European judges “ will block certain aspects .
The current Tories have nothing to offer this country other than hate and division , they offer nothing to younger people and only care about pandering to the elderly .
The Tories have nothing to offer and so will engage in a desperate culture war in the run up to the next GE . Aswell as that the “ boat people “ will be used to get the angry mob going and the right wing hate papers will dupe their readership into voting away their rights .
No 10 knows only too well that their new policy to be unveiled soon to tackle the Channel crossings has been designed to fail and to end up in the ECHR where the so called “ evil European judges “ will block certain aspects .
The current Tories have nothing to offer this country other than hate and division , they offer nothing to younger people and only care about pandering to the elderly .
Very interesting. There is one question most evangelicals in the CoE are not wanting to address.
On the whole evangelicals accept as a fact among their membership divorce and remarriage, and quite often perform remarriages and blessings thereof.
Jesus bans all or most divorce (depends which gospel) and all remarriage without exception. Paul bans all remarriage.
The contrast between this and their attitude to gays in stark and interesting. Despite the rhetoric it appears to be little to do with a consistent line on the bible.
Jesus (unlike the OT) didn't speak out against gays, while did against re-marriage.
Neither were his main message though. He was much tougher on Pharisees and hypocrites who profess piety yet persecute others.
Are widow/ers allowed to remarry by the NT?
I don’t think the National Trust has a firm position
If this lot think the National Trust are going soft on same-sex marriage they'll be bursting a few blood vessels again:
Organisations like Restore Trust and GB News wouldn't exist if there wasn't such a monopoly of opinion amongst the career-builders in the 3rd sector and MSM.
The Tories have nothing to offer and so will engage in a desperate culture war in the run up to the next GE . Aswell as that the “ boat people “ will be used to get the angry mob going and the right wing hate papers will dupe their readership into voting away their rights .
No 10 knows only too well that their new policy to be unveiled soon to tackle the Channel crossings has been designed to fail and to end up in the ECHR where the so called “ evil European judges “ will block certain aspects .
The current Tories have nothing to offer this country other than hate and division , they offer nothing to younger people and only care about pandering to the elderly .
Guy Hands firm challenges MoD over controversial £8bn property estate Annington Property launches judicial review arguing ministry does not have right to take back houses after ‘disastrous’ sell-off https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/feb/13/guy-hands-firm-challenges-mod-over-controversial-8bn-property-estate A property company controlled by the private equity tycoon Guy Hands has started a court battle to block the reversal of the highly controversial privatisation of thousands of military homes now worth as much as £8bn.
Annington Property launched a judicial review on Monday in London’s high court, arguing that the Ministry of Defence does not have the right to take back ownership of the properties because the company has not consented and the state was exercising its power improperly. Annington is owned by Terra Firma, the private equity firm run by Hands.…
… In 1996, the Conservative government sold 57,400 houses used by military servicemen and women and their families to Annington Homes for £1.7bn in a sale and leaseback deal. Under the deal, the MoD paid rent and agreed to maintain the properties. Annington became the UK’s biggest residential property owner, and became entitled to annual rent now worth £178m.
However, the sale is widely regarded as a mistake. The value of British housing has soared since the deal was completed, and the Annington estate is valued at as much as £8bn.
In 2018 a cross-party group of MPs on the public accounts committee described the sell-off as “disastrous for taxpayers, offering no protection against the private sector making excessive gains at the taxpayer’s expense”. The government missed out on as much as £4.2bn in asset price increases, the MPs said.
Countess Felicity Cunliffe Lister, who lives in a castle, gains a North Yorkshire County Council seat for the Liberal Democrats from the Conservatives.
Further proof the LDs are now the posh party, not the Tories
Leavers, home owning pensioners and the rich, high earners and posh
Sounds like the recipe for extinction.
No, the median voter is now aged 50 and voted Leave in 2016.
Since when we’re people aged 50 “pensioners”? Let alone home-owning, rich, high-earning and posh.
Over 50s were mainly Leavers and most at least own property with a mortgage. Over 60s own property outright mostly. They are the Conservatives core vote now.
As I said the rich, high earning posh will only tend to vote Tory v Labour now, otherwise they will vote LD
And yet the swing to Labour among the 65+ age group, at 20%, is greater than the national swing. Yes, the Conservatives still lead but by less than 10 points with the latest Redfield & Wilton compared with a near 50 point advantage at the last election.
Countess Felicity Cunliffe Lister, who lives in a castle, gains a North Yorkshire County Council seat for the Liberal Democrats from the Conservatives.
Further proof the LDs are now the posh party, not the Tories
Countess Felicity Cunliffe Lister, who lives in a castle, gains a North Yorkshire County Council seat for the Liberal Democrats from the Conservatives.
Further proof the LDs are now the posh party, not the Tories
Leavers, home owning pensioners and the rich, high earners and posh
Sounds like the recipe for extinction.
No, the median voter is now aged 50 and voted Leave in 2016.
Since when we’re people aged 50 “pensioners”? Let alone home-owning, rich, high-earning and posh.
Over 50s are Leavers and most at least own property with a mortgage. Over 60s own property outright mostly. They are the Conservatives core vote now.
As I said the rich, high earning posh will only tend to vote Tory v Labour now, otherwise they will vote LD
Social proof and snobbery drives a lot of voting behaviour amongst British elites.
Once, that drove such votes overwhelmingly in a Conservative direction. Nowadays, it can be Labour in north London and the intellectual mets, LD in the posh and very high earning suburbs and spa towns, and still Conservative for the hunting and shooting set in the rural Shires.
True, percentage wise though the LDs now get a higher percentage of their vote from graduates and high earners than either the Conservatives or Labour
According to the defence secretary, Lloyd Austin, just now : "We still don't know what the three objects shot are. No debris has been recovered." They clearly still have no clue either way, but the White House staff have been told to be reassuring.
Countess Felicity Cunliffe Lister, who lives in a castle, gains a North Yorkshire County Council seat for the Liberal Democrats from the Conservatives.
Further proof the LDs are now the posh party, not the Tories
Leavers, home owning pensioners and the rich, high earners and posh
Sounds like the recipe for extinction.
No, the median voter is now aged 50 and voted Leave in 2016.
Since when we’re people aged 50 “pensioners”? Let alone home-owning, rich, high-earning and posh.
Over 50s were mainly Leavers and most at least own property with a mortgage. Over 60s own property outright mostly. They are the Conservatives core vote now.
As I said the rich, high earning posh will only tend to vote Tory v Labour now, otherwise they will vote LD
And yet the swing to Labour among the 65+ age group, at 20%, is greater than the national swing. Yes, the Conservatives still lead but by less than 10 points with the latest Redfield & Wilton compared with a near 50 point advantage at the last election.
Countess Felicity Cunliffe Lister, who lives in a castle, gains a North Yorkshire County Council seat for the Liberal Democrats from the Conservatives.
Further proof the LDs are now the posh party, not the Tories
Guy Hands firm challenges MoD over controversial £8bn property estate Annington Property launches judicial review arguing ministry does not have right to take back houses after ‘disastrous’ sell-off https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/feb/13/guy-hands-firm-challenges-mod-over-controversial-8bn-property-estate A property company controlled by the private equity tycoon Guy Hands has started a court battle to block the reversal of the highly controversial privatisation of thousands of military homes now worth as much as £8bn.
Annington Property launched a judicial review on Monday in London’s high court, arguing that the Ministry of Defence does not have the right to take back ownership of the properties because the company has not consented and the state was exercising its power improperly. Annington is owned by Terra Firma, the private equity firm run by Hands.…
… In 1996, the Conservative government sold 57,400 houses used by military servicemen and women and their families to Annington Homes for £1.7bn in a sale and leaseback deal. Under the deal, the MoD paid rent and agreed to maintain the properties. Annington became the UK’s biggest residential property owner, and became entitled to annual rent now worth £178m.
However, the sale is widely regarded as a mistake. The value of British housing has soared since the deal was completed, and the Annington estate is valued at as much as £8bn.
In 2018 a cross-party group of MPs on the public accounts committee described the sell-off as “disastrous for taxpayers, offering no protection against the private sector making excessive gains at the taxpayer’s expense”. The government missed out on as much as £4.2bn in asset price increases, the MPs said.
I despise property profiteers as much as the next person,* but why would the state think it has the right to confiscate houses it has sold merely because it made a total fucking fool of itself by signing a daft contract? That merely tells me certain civil servants were very stupid. Which is not news.
Unless they can prove that there was fraud on the part of the purchaser or criminal negligence on the part of the vendor's agents I think this MoD is going to lose this one.
Countess Felicity Cunliffe Lister, who lives in a castle, gains a North Yorkshire County Council seat for the Liberal Democrats from the Conservatives.
Further proof the LDs are now the posh party, not the Tories
Countess Felicity Cunliffe Lister, who lives in a castle, gains a North Yorkshire County Council seat for the Liberal Democrats from the Conservatives.
Further proof the LDs are now the posh party, not the Tories
Very interesting. There is one question most evangelicals in the CoE are not wanting to address.
On the whole evangelicals accept as a fact among their membership divorce and remarriage, and quite often perform remarriages and blessings thereof.
Jesus bans all or most divorce (depends which gospel) and all remarriage without exception. Paul bans all remarriage.
The contrast between this and their attitude to gays in stark and interesting. Despite the rhetoric it appears to be little to do with a consistent line on the bible.
Jesus (unlike the OT) didn't speak out against gays, while did against re-marriage.
Neither were his main message though. He was much tougher on Pharisees and hypocrites who profess piety yet persecute others.
Yes. Agree. His 'main' message, SFAICS, was about something called 'The Kingdom of God'.
People who think they are believers in biblical authority, infallibility etc - in the Protestant tradition mostly called evangelicals - tend to have a rather strained and selective approach when you look at: money, wealth, war, and the contrast between rules for heteros (remarriage OK) and rules for gays (go away).
Well fancy that. Why on earth could this be? The degree of self interest creeping in is to say the least disheartening.
I think the Evangelical position on wealth is that it is easier for a Rich Man to pass through the eye of a needle, than it is for a camel to.
Countess Felicity Cunliffe Lister, who lives in a castle, gains a North Yorkshire County Council seat for the Liberal Democrats from the Conservatives.
Further proof the LDs are now the posh party, not the Tories
Guy Hands firm challenges MoD over controversial £8bn property estate Annington Property launches judicial review arguing ministry does not have right to take back houses after ‘disastrous’ sell-off https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/feb/13/guy-hands-firm-challenges-mod-over-controversial-8bn-property-estate A property company controlled by the private equity tycoon Guy Hands has started a court battle to block the reversal of the highly controversial privatisation of thousands of military homes now worth as much as £8bn.
Annington Property launched a judicial review on Monday in London’s high court, arguing that the Ministry of Defence does not have the right to take back ownership of the properties because the company has not consented and the state was exercising its power improperly. Annington is owned by Terra Firma, the private equity firm run by Hands.…
… In 1996, the Conservative government sold 57,400 houses used by military servicemen and women and their families to Annington Homes for £1.7bn in a sale and leaseback deal. Under the deal, the MoD paid rent and agreed to maintain the properties. Annington became the UK’s biggest residential property owner, and became entitled to annual rent now worth £178m.
However, the sale is widely regarded as a mistake. The value of British housing has soared since the deal was completed, and the Annington estate is valued at as much as £8bn.
In 2018 a cross-party group of MPs on the public accounts committee described the sell-off as “disastrous for taxpayers, offering no protection against the private sector making excessive gains at the taxpayer’s expense”. The government missed out on as much as £4.2bn in asset price increases, the MPs said.
I despise property profiteers as much as the next person,* but why would the state think it has the right to confiscate houses it has sold merely because it made a total fucking fool of itself by signing a daft contract? That merely tells me certain civil servants were very stupid. Which is not news.
Unless they can prove that there was fraud on the part of the purchaser or criminal negligence on the part of the vendor's agents I think this MoD is going to lose this one.
Aparently the properties are leased & under current UK law leaseholders (i.e. the government) have the right to compulsory purchase leases from the leaseholder.
Naturally, given the amounts of cash at stake, the lawyers are going to get involved, but this doesn’t seem to be a slam dunk one sided case to me? It sounds from the Guardian reporting as if Hands is moaning that the plan to re-purchase the properties prevented him selling out at the top of the market because the buyers got wind of the government’s plans. So now he has to sell out to the government at current valuations.
Hands wants to have his cake & eat it it seems to me.
Very interesting. There is one question most evangelicals in the CoE are not wanting to address.
On the whole evangelicals accept as a fact among their membership divorce and remarriage, and quite often perform remarriages and blessings thereof.
Jesus bans all or most divorce (depends which gospel) and all remarriage without exception. Paul bans all remarriage.
The contrast between this and their attitude to gays in stark and interesting. Despite the rhetoric it appears to be little to do with a consistent line on the bible.
Jesus (unlike the OT) didn't speak out against gays, while did against re-marriage.
Neither were his main message though. He was much tougher on Pharisees and hypocrites who profess piety yet persecute others.
Yes. Agree. His 'main' message, SFAICS, was about something called 'The Kingdom of God'.
People who think they are believers in biblical authority, infallibility etc - in the Protestant tradition mostly called evangelicals - tend to have a rather strained and selective approach when you look at: money, wealth, war, and the contrast between rules for heteros (remarriage OK) and rules for gays (go away).
Well fancy that. Why on earth could this be? The degree of self interest creeping in is to say the least disheartening.
I think the Evangelical position on wealth is that it is easier for a Rich Man to pass through the eye of a needle, than it is for a camel to.
On topic. I am hearing quite a few interesting rumours concerning several currently Tory seats where the Lib Dems are doing very well locally and yet which the polls do not show them taking nationally. It could be that the voters are still not moving, but equally it could be the pollsters are not picking up how effective Davey´s party can be on the ground.
I am thinking that come May we could see some big wins from the Yellows, and that, reminded of their existence, the voters may give them a stronger hearing. So what does the PB Hivemind think could be the upper or lower limits if the blues are seeing a big switch to the Lib Dems in wealthy, Remain positive, well educated seats?
Also, if the SNP tide is indeed now ebbing, where do their voters switch to? Could Lib Dems come through the middle to recover their former Highland and North East Scotland redoubt?
I have always found your comments on Wales and Scotland to have the 'on the spot' reliability and expertise of someone who is posting from Tallinn, Estonia.
Cicero is probably more on the button than my reporting from Greater Cowbridge!
Guy Hands firm challenges MoD over controversial £8bn property estate Annington Property launches judicial review arguing ministry does not have right to take back houses after ‘disastrous’ sell-off https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/feb/13/guy-hands-firm-challenges-mod-over-controversial-8bn-property-estate A property company controlled by the private equity tycoon Guy Hands has started a court battle to block the reversal of the highly controversial privatisation of thousands of military homes now worth as much as £8bn.
Annington Property launched a judicial review on Monday in London’s high court, arguing that the Ministry of Defence does not have the right to take back ownership of the properties because the company has not consented and the state was exercising its power improperly. Annington is owned by Terra Firma, the private equity firm run by Hands.…
… In 1996, the Conservative government sold 57,400 houses used by military servicemen and women and their families to Annington Homes for £1.7bn in a sale and leaseback deal. Under the deal, the MoD paid rent and agreed to maintain the properties. Annington became the UK’s biggest residential property owner, and became entitled to annual rent now worth £178m.
However, the sale is widely regarded as a mistake. The value of British housing has soared since the deal was completed, and the Annington estate is valued at as much as £8bn.
In 2018 a cross-party group of MPs on the public accounts committee described the sell-off as “disastrous for taxpayers, offering no protection against the private sector making excessive gains at the taxpayer’s expense”. The government missed out on as much as £4.2bn in asset price increases, the MPs said.
I despise property profiteers as much as the next person,* but why would the state think it has the right to confiscate houses it has sold merely because it made a total fucking fools of itself by signing a daft contract? That merely tells me certain civil servants were very stupid. Which is not news.
Unless they can prove that there was fraud on the part of the purchaser or criminal negligence on the part of the vendor's agents I think this MoD is going to lose this one.
Yes, the mistake was back then - though without seeing the terms of the sale and leaseback it’s hard to say whether the government lacks any leverage at all.
Not to imply anything improper, but it’s an illustration of the cozy world at the top of UK society that Hands was a close friend of Hague at Oxford.
Sunak said woke nonsense is destroying the UK. He’s to the right of Johnson and probably the most right wing PM we’ve had lately
Truss surely?
Surely Truss is left-wing because she wanted to run a very high budget deficit? Isn't that what lefties do?
Was Reagan a lefty? Or Donald Trump?
Reagan spent it on weapons and Trump on himself.
The first is the antithesis of left wing beliefs (unless you're the USSR).
The second - well, you could say that's very left wing behaviour, actually.
I agree. Running a deficit is not a left wing attribute, what matters is why. Running a deficit in order to give a tax cut to the rich is hardly left wing.
Very interesting. There is one question most evangelicals in the CoE are not wanting to address.
On the whole evangelicals accept as a fact among their membership divorce and remarriage, and quite often perform remarriages and blessings thereof.
Jesus bans all or most divorce (depends which gospel) and all remarriage without exception. Paul bans all remarriage.
The contrast between this and their attitude to gays in stark and interesting. Despite the rhetoric it appears to be little to do with a consistent line on the bible.
Jesus (unlike the OT) didn't speak out against gays, while did against re-marriage.
Neither were his main message though. He was much tougher on Pharisees and hypocrites who profess piety yet persecute others.
Yes. Agree. His 'main' message, SFAICS, was about something called 'The Kingdom of God'.
People who think they are believers in biblical authority, infallibility etc - in the Protestant tradition mostly called evangelicals - tend to have a rather strained and selective approach when you look at: money, wealth, war, and the contrast between rules for heteros (remarriage OK) and rules for gays (go away).
Well fancy that. Why on earth could this be? The degree of self interest creeping in is to say the least disheartening.
I think the Evangelical position on wealth is that it is easier for a Rich Man to pass through the eye of a needle, than it is for a camel to.
Countess Felicity Cunliffe Lister, who lives in a castle, gains a North Yorkshire County Council seat for the Liberal Democrats from the Conservatives.
Further proof the LDs are now the posh party, not the Tories
Countess Felicity Cunliffe Lister, who lives in a castle, gains a North Yorkshire County Council seat for the Liberal Democrats from the Conservatives.
Further proof the LDs are now the posh party, not the Tories
Guy Hands firm challenges MoD over controversial £8bn property estate Annington Property launches judicial review arguing ministry does not have right to take back houses after ‘disastrous’ sell-off https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/feb/13/guy-hands-firm-challenges-mod-over-controversial-8bn-property-estate A property company controlled by the private equity tycoon Guy Hands has started a court battle to block the reversal of the highly controversial privatisation of thousands of military homes now worth as much as £8bn.
Annington Property launched a judicial review on Monday in London’s high court, arguing that the Ministry of Defence does not have the right to take back ownership of the properties because the company has not consented and the state was exercising its power improperly. Annington is owned by Terra Firma, the private equity firm run by Hands.…
… In 1996, the Conservative government sold 57,400 houses used by military servicemen and women and their families to Annington Homes for £1.7bn in a sale and leaseback deal. Under the deal, the MoD paid rent and agreed to maintain the properties. Annington became the UK’s biggest residential property owner, and became entitled to annual rent now worth £178m.
However, the sale is widely regarded as a mistake. The value of British housing has soared since the deal was completed, and the Annington estate is valued at as much as £8bn.
In 2018 a cross-party group of MPs on the public accounts committee described the sell-off as “disastrous for taxpayers, offering no protection against the private sector making excessive gains at the taxpayer’s expense”. The government missed out on as much as £4.2bn in asset price increases, the MPs said.
I despise property profiteers as much as the next person,* but why would the state think it has the right to confiscate houses it has sold merely because it made a total fucking fool of itself by signing a daft contract? That merely tells me certain civil servants were very stupid. Which is not news.
Unless they can prove that there was fraud on the part of the purchaser or criminal negligence on the part of the vendor's agents I think this MoD is going to lose this one.
Aparently the properties are leased & under current UK law leaseholders (i.e. the government) have the right to compulsory purchase leases from the leaseholder.
Naturally, given the amounts of cash at stake, the lawyers are going to get involved, but this doesn’t seem to be a slam dunk one sided case to me? It sounds from the Guardian reporting as if Hands is moaning that the plan to re-purchase the properties prevented him selling out at the top of the market because the buyers got wind of the government’s plans. So now he has to sell out to the government at current valuations.
Hands wants to have his cake & eat it it seems to me.
As do the government.
They should never have signed that contract and he's laughing all the way to the bank. But they did.
The only faint positive might be if they finally use the same logic to move against the even more ghastly PFI Ponzi scheme.
"America and France are simultaneously becoming weaker, less capable, each undermined by growing internal divisions—the one by overemphasizing them, the other by denying them altogether."
Countess Felicity Cunliffe Lister, who lives in a castle, gains a North Yorkshire County Council seat for the Liberal Democrats from the Conservatives.
Further proof the LDs are now the posh party, not the Tories
Presumably @HYUFD would assert if the LDs don't govern it, they probably own it.
HY did an awful lot of extrapolating from one charity minded lady winning one seat in a by election. 🙂
But then I also used this Lib Dem beating Tories just a few country miles from home to wind mum and dad up in a FaceTime yesterday… but they weren’t at all in the mood 🤭
Countess Felicity Cunliffe Lister, who lives in a castle, gains a North Yorkshire County Council seat for the Liberal Democrats from the Conservatives.
Further proof the LDs are now the posh party, not the Tories
kle4 - We agree on liking Brin's Uplift series. And I would add that some of the aliens in it seem truly alien to me.
But recently I have been bothered because he never answered the puzzle he raised in "Startide Rising". As I told a friend recently, partly because of that, I found the last three books in the series "less than the sum of their parts". Many good bits and characters, but they don't finally add up to a satisfying whole.
Very interesting. There is one question most evangelicals in the CoE are not wanting to address.
On the whole evangelicals accept as a fact among their membership divorce and remarriage, and quite often perform remarriages and blessings thereof.
Jesus bans all or most divorce (depends which gospel) and all remarriage without exception. Paul bans all remarriage.
The contrast between this and their attitude to gays in stark and interesting. Despite the rhetoric it appears to be little to do with a consistent line on the bible.
Jesus (unlike the OT) didn't speak out against gays, while did against re-marriage.
Neither were his main message though. He was much tougher on Pharisees and hypocrites who profess piety yet persecute others.
Are widow/ers allowed to remarry by the NT?
I don’t think the National Trust has a firm position
If this lot think the National Trust are going soft on same-sex marriage they'll be bursting a few blood vessels again:
Organisations like Restore Trust and GB News wouldn't exist if there wasn't such a monopoly of opinion amongst the career-builders in the 3rd sector and MSM.
Is building a career not considered a good thing anymore? No wonder the country is going to the dogs.
kle4 - We agree on liking Brin's Uplift series. And I would add that some of the aliens in it seem truly alien to me.
But recently I have been bothered by the fact that he never answered the puzzle he raised in "Startide Rising". As I told a friend recently, partly because of that, I found the last three books in the series "less than the sum of their parts". Many good bits and characters, but they don't finally add up to a satisfying whole.
I do kind of agree - I think he says at the end of the last book that he doesn't like to write sequels or new stories following the same characters, so I think he must deliberately like to leave things a bit vague. I was actually surprised that he wrapped up the last one as well as it did, as a result.
Never heard of Heritage, will have to check it out, the write up reminds me a bit of Jack McDevitt's Academy series, where when man reaches the stars he (mostly) finds others have come and gone already, making it like space archaeology.
Countess Felicity Cunliffe Lister, who lives in a castle, gains a North Yorkshire County Council seat for the Liberal Democrats from the Conservatives.
Further proof the LDs are now the posh party, not the Tories
Presumably @HYUFD would assert if the LDs don't govern it, they probably own it.
King Charles would almost certainly be a LD if he could vote too yes
Charles would have backed Corbyn, if he could.
No he wouldn't, Corbyn was a republican.
He would have voted Remain in 2016, then LD in 2017 and 2019.
He might now vote for Starmer though
KC would vote Green, shirley?
I really don't know how any of the Royal Family would voted in any GE in their lifetimes, from KC3 down though heir or spare, they really don't give much away, and rightly so.
Typically damning article from Hugo Rifkind in tomorrow's Times
The main criticism against Sir Keir Starmer is that he, too, lacks clarity. “I just don’t know what he stands for,” people will say. Labour, though, has it easy. They’re the anti-Tory party. The Conservatives have been in power for more than a decade, the country is a mess — this has clout. Precisely because of Starmer’s careful triangulation, the reverse doesn’t work. What’s to fear? A tiny bit more scepticism about Brexit? A tiny bit less about transgender bathrooms? It’s not enough. Fans sometimes hail Starmer as the new Tony Blair, but perhaps he’s actually the new David Cameron. There’s no drama here. His whole pitch is simply that he’d be better at the gig than the other lot.
kle4 - We agree on liking Brin's Uplift series. And I would add that some of the aliens in it seem truly alien to me.
But recently I have been bothered by the fact that he never answered the puzzle he raised in "Startide Rising". As I told a friend recently, partly because of that, I found the last three books in the series "less than the sum of their parts". Many good bits and characters, but they don't finally add up to a satisfying whole.
I do kind of agree - I think he says at the end of the last book that he doesn't like to write sequels or new stories following the same characters, so I think he must deliberately like to leave things a bit vague. I was actually surprised that he wrapped up the last one as well as it did, as a result.
Never heard of Heritage, will have to check it out, the write up reminds me a bit of Jack McDevitt's Academy series, where when man reaches the stars he (mostly) finds others have come and gone already, making it like space archaeology.
The idea of space archeology has been touched on in Dr Who quire a bit, both on TV and in the extended universe. While River Song is an archaeologist as she is hunting the doctor, the classic tomb of the cyber men features an excavation of the cyber tomb (its really a trap). It seems quite likely that if we or alien races ever did get to spread across the Galaxy, Star Trek like, we would likely encounter lots of extinction. For us it feels like we are in a race to develop a sustainable way of living before we destroy ourselves. No guarantee we will succeed either…
“The Pentagon is yet to recover debris from the three UFOs shot down this weekend over Alaska, Canada and Michigan and is yet to offer any kind of explanation as to what they are, how they were able to fly, or whether they pose a genuine threat to America.”
...so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.
The White House however has just said "there is no evidence of aliens or extra terrestrial activity".
“so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.“
The Mail’s front page today shows how badly they are losing it. That arch remainers will meet in a country house and go through a PowerPoint slide pack is not a news story - that arch brexiteers like Gove joined them is a news story, but not the angle the mail is reporting on - arch remainers plot against Brexit is how they splashing it you have to read down to find the incendiary facts Gove and other leader brexiteers were there. 😆
Brexit has really gone super-exclusive if Gove is no longer deemed a 'proper' Leaver.
Proper Leaverdom is very loosely correlated with reality. Remainer Truss is a Proper Leaver, passionate leaver Sunak is not.
I don't think we need such abstract concepts as personality/'connection to reality' (as defined by remainers naturally) to judge 'proper' leaverdom. Proper leavers wish us to use the flexibility afforded by Brexit for the benefit of the UK. That may involve actually repealing some EU laws, stepping away from some EU projects, tax cuts that were hitherto forbidden, institutional changes away from harmonised administration across the bloc etc. Some want all of those, some just some. A 'not-proper' leaver may speak through gritted teeth about 'the opportunities of Brexit' but will oppose any moves like those above that would make hiccoughs on the road to rejoining. That's why it is difficult to call Sunak or Gove 'proper leavers' at this time.
Claiming Gove is not a proper leaver just because he wants to try and make things work rather than Johnson and Rees Mogg's bull in a china shop approach is just plain dumb. He is one of the few Ministers who actually tried to start doing something positive around post Brexit reforms, particularly at DEFRA. The idea that the only 'pure and proper' Brexit is one that sweeps away every last vestige of EU law in as short a time as possible is really, really stupid.
I agree with you. I think it goes back to how the Mail were being so weird in how they covered the story. It’s not just the bull in a China shop Brexit that will satisfy all leave voters, to use your phrase, but it is the only Brexit that will satisfy the bull in the China shop brexiteers. Hence they build the story around Frosty the noman saying his Brexit deal is not a failure, it was never properly implemented is the failure. That’s the story the mail is pushing.
The actual story is leading brexiteers and remainers are talking to each other about next steps. Don’t get me wrong, we will probably never be in EU ever again to the extent we were - but the reason for Gove and Mandleson in a next steps seminar together is because the bull in the China shop Brexit favoured by the mail is dead, it was never going to deliver, it’s going to be consigned to the dustbin forever, because they only had the one chance to make bull in China shop Brexit work, they failed, and they will never have the power for a bull in a China shop Brexit ever again, that moment has sailed.
Hence the next steps seminar. The country moves on.
This looks bad. Footage on the ground from East Palestine, Ohio (February 10, 2023) following the controlled burn of the extremely hazardous chemical Vinyl Chloride that spilled during a train derailment (volume warning) https://twitter.com/more_shower/status/1624937676292907008
Ohio: Dead fish and cattle being reported as far as 100 miles away from the site.
Journalists covering the story have been arrested.
“The Pentagon is yet to recover debris from the three UFOs shot down this weekend over Alaska, Canada and Michigan and is yet to offer any kind of explanation as to what they are, how they were able to fly, or whether they pose a genuine threat to America.”
...so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.
The White House however has just said "there is no evidence of aliens or extra terrestrial activity".
“so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.“
The Mail’s front page today shows how badly they are losing it. That arch remainers will meet in a country house and go through a PowerPoint slide pack is not a news story - that arch brexiteers like Gove joined them is a news story, but not the angle the mail is reporting on - arch remainers plot against Brexit is how they splashing it you have to read down to find the incendiary facts Gove and other leader brexiteers were there. 😆
Brexit has really gone super-exclusive if Gove is no longer deemed a 'proper' Leaver.
Proper Leaverdom is very loosely correlated with reality. Remainer Truss is a Proper Leaver, passionate leaver Sunak is not.
I don't think we need such abstract concepts as personality/'connection to reality' (as defined by remainers naturally) to judge 'proper' leaverdom. Proper leavers wish us to use the flexibility afforded by Brexit for the benefit of the UK. That may involve actually repealing some EU laws, stepping away from some EU projects, tax cuts that were hitherto forbidden, institutional changes away from harmonised administration across the bloc etc. Some want all of those, some just some. A 'not-proper' leaver may speak through gritted teeth about 'the opportunities of Brexit' but will oppose any moves like those above that would make hiccoughs on the road to rejoining. That's why it is difficult to call Sunak or Gove 'proper leavers' at this time.
Claiming Gove is not a proper leaver just because he wants to try and make things work rather than Johnson and Rees Mogg's bull in a china shop approach is just plain dumb. He is one of the few Ministers who actually tried to start doing something positive around post Brexit reforms, particularly at DEFRA. The idea that the only 'pure and proper' Brexit is one that sweeps away every last vestige of EU law in as short a time as possible is really, really stupid.
I agree with you. I think it goes back to how the Mail were being so weird in how they covered the story. It’s not just the bull in a China shop Brexit that will satisfy all leave voters, to use your phrase, but it is the only Brexit that will satisfy the bull in the China shop brexiteers. Hence they build the story around Frosty the noman saying his Brexit deal is not a failure, it was never properly implemented is the failure. That’s the story the mail is pushing.
The actual story is leading brexiteers and remainers are talking to each other about next steps. Don’t get me wrong, we will probably never be in EU ever again to the extent we were - but the reason for Gove and Mandleson in a next steps seminar together is because the bull in the China shop Brexit favoured by the mail is dead, it was never going to deliver, it’s going to be consigned to the dustbin forever, because they only had the one chance to make bull in China shop Brexit work, they failed, and they will never have the power for a bull in a China shop Brexit ever again, that moment has sailed.
Hence the next steps seminar. The country moves on.
And the hardcore headbangers continue to headbang.
“The Pentagon is yet to recover debris from the three UFOs shot down this weekend over Alaska, Canada and Michigan and is yet to offer any kind of explanation as to what they are, how they were able to fly, or whether they pose a genuine threat to America.”
...so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.
The White House however has just said "there is no evidence of aliens or extra terrestrial activity".
“so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.“
The Mail’s front page today shows how badly they are losing it. That arch remainers will meet in a country house and go through a PowerPoint slide pack is not a news story - that arch brexiteers like Gove joined them is a news story, but not the angle the mail is reporting on - arch remainers plot against Brexit is how they splashing it you have to read down to find the incendiary facts Gove and other leader brexiteers were there. 😆
Brexit has really gone super-exclusive if Gove is no longer deemed a 'proper' Leaver.
Proper Leaverdom is very loosely correlated with reality. Remainer Truss is a Proper Leaver, passionate leaver Sunak is not.
I don't think we need such abstract concepts as personality/'connection to reality' (as defined by remainers naturally) to judge 'proper' leaverdom. Proper leavers wish us to use the flexibility afforded by Brexit for the benefit of the UK. That may involve actually repealing some EU laws, stepping away from some EU projects, tax cuts that were hitherto forbidden, institutional changes away from harmonised administration across the bloc etc. Some want all of those, some just some. A 'not-proper' leaver may speak through gritted teeth about 'the opportunities of Brexit' but will oppose any moves like those above that would make hiccoughs on the road to rejoining. That's why it is difficult to call Sunak or Gove 'proper leavers' at this time.
Claiming Gove is not a proper leaver just because he wants to try and make things work rather than Johnson and Rees Mogg's bull in a china shop approach is just plain dumb. He is one of the few Ministers who actually tried to start doing something positive around post Brexit reforms, particularly at DEFRA. The idea that the only 'pure and proper' Brexit is one that sweeps away every last vestige of EU law in as short a time as possible is really, really stupid.
I didn't notice a 'bull in the china shop' approach to uncoupling with the EU from Boris - as far as I can see we made very little progress in that area at all during his tenure. We must all speak as we find. I am sure some of Gove's DEFRA reforms have been positive, but during our time within the CAP, we had farmers making money from such things as set aside, we had orchards ripped up, we were the only EU country with a milk quota lower than its population needs. Environmental concerns are hugely important, but I would have hoped that any post-Brexit agricultural strategy would have had increasing the production of good quality domestic food as a core aim. Subsidising things like re-wilding efforts seems to me very much in line with current EU policy, whether or not the policies match precisely. I could be very wrong and I freely admit that is a surface surmise.
I don't agree with sweeping away EU law for the sake of it either, but I absolutely agree that it should be done where it is clear that there is an advantage in doing so. Hopefully you would agree.
Yes I would agree with removing EU law as necessary. But setting an arbitrary date for that without really worrying about what will replace it is Blair levels of stupidity (remembering he tried to get rid of the Lord Chancellor in 2003 without realising that without the post no laws could be promulgated by Parliament)
Before that date (31 December 2023), Government Departments and the devolved Administrations will determine which retained EU law can be reformed to benefit the UK, which can expire, and which needs to be preserved and incorporated into domestic law in modified form. They will also decide if retained EU law needs to be codified as it is preserved, in order to preserve specific policy effects which are beneficial to keep.
The Bill includes an extension mechanism for the sunset of specified pieces of retained EU law until 2026. Should it be required, this will allow Departments additional time where necessary to implement more complex reforms to specific pieces of retained EU law, including any necessary legislation.
I agree that EU law that is right, must be retained and added to the domestic statute book, but that is the plan. It just won't have special status under the law by being 'EU law' any more. That is fair, and I can't see why anyone who is actually in favour of Brexit would disagree.
Because the reality was that JRM and the rest of the crew were effectively doing little to nothing to actually ensure that the work was done to achieve their aim. Bear in mind that any EU law or regulation that has not been revised and brought into English law by the end of 2023 automatically falls. Moreover a lot of this should be being done by Parliament rather than simply decided by a minister. Many Brexit supporters are just as unhappy about the way this is being done as former Remainers are.
This looks bad. Footage on the ground from East Palestine, Ohio (February 10, 2023) following the controlled burn of the extremely hazardous chemical Vinyl Chloride that spilled during a train derailment (volume warning) https://twitter.com/more_shower/status/1624937676292907008
Ohio: Dead fish and cattle being reported as far as 100 miles away from the site.
Journalists covering the story have been arrested.
“The Pentagon is yet to recover debris from the three UFOs shot down this weekend over Alaska, Canada and Michigan and is yet to offer any kind of explanation as to what they are, how they were able to fly, or whether they pose a genuine threat to America.”
...so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.
The White House however has just said "there is no evidence of aliens or extra terrestrial activity".
“so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.“
The Mail’s front page today shows how badly they are losing it. That arch remainers will meet in a country house and go through a PowerPoint slide pack is not a news story - that arch brexiteers like Gove joined them is a news story, but not the angle the mail is reporting on - arch remainers plot against Brexit is how they splashing it you have to read down to find the incendiary facts Gove and other leader brexiteers were there. 😆
Brexit has really gone super-exclusive if Gove is no longer deemed a 'proper' Leaver.
Proper Leaverdom is very loosely correlated with reality. Remainer Truss is a Proper Leaver, passionate leaver Sunak is not.
I don't think we need such abstract concepts as personality/'connection to reality' (as defined by remainers naturally) to judge 'proper' leaverdom. Proper leavers wish us to use the flexibility afforded by Brexit for the benefit of the UK. That may involve actually repealing some EU laws, stepping away from some EU projects, tax cuts that were hitherto forbidden, institutional changes away from harmonised administration across the bloc etc. Some want all of those, some just some. A 'not-proper' leaver may speak through gritted teeth about 'the opportunities of Brexit' but will oppose any moves like those above that would make hiccoughs on the road to rejoining. That's why it is difficult to call Sunak or Gove 'proper leavers' at this time.
Claiming Gove is not a proper leaver just because he wants to try and make things work rather than Johnson and Rees Mogg's bull in a china shop approach is just plain dumb. He is one of the few Ministers who actually tried to start doing something positive around post Brexit reforms, particularly at DEFRA. The idea that the only 'pure and proper' Brexit is one that sweeps away every last vestige of EU law in as short a time as possible is really, really stupid.
I agree with you. I think it goes back to how the Mail were being so weird in how they covered the story. It’s not just the bull in a China shop Brexit that will satisfy all leave voters, to use your phrase, but it is the only Brexit that will satisfy the bull in the China shop brexiteers. Hence they build the story around Frosty the noman saying his Brexit deal is not a failure, it was never properly implemented is the failure. That’s the story the mail is pushing.
The actual story is leading brexiteers and remainers are talking to each other about next steps. Don’t get me wrong, we will probably never be in EU ever again to the extent we were - but the reason for Gove and Mandleson in a next steps seminar together is because the bull in the China shop Brexit favoured by the mail is dead, it was never going to deliver, it’s going to be consigned to the dustbin forever, because they only had the one chance to make bull in China shop Brexit work, they failed, and they will never have the power for a bull in a China shop Brexit ever again, that moment has sailed.
Hence the next steps seminar. The country moves on.
I can't find any element of this that reflects reality. Lord Frost is very critical of his own deal, which he blames on the lack of leverage because the country wasn't able to leave without a deal.
JRM's Retained EU law bill is actually quite carefully considered, and I cannot see any evidence for the sort of legal vacuum scenario that Richard mentions within the way the bill is planned. We have left the EU, why would we remain subject to EU law, and why would that law remain superior to parliamentary statute? That's not an extreme version of Brexit, it's the basic version as expected and understood by everyone on both sides of the Brexit debate.
Gove has undoubted merits, but has always been a slimy toad. It is zero surprise that nobody trusts him on Brexit - it would be daft to trust him with a sharp pair of scissors.
“The Pentagon is yet to recover debris from the three UFOs shot down this weekend over Alaska, Canada and Michigan and is yet to offer any kind of explanation as to what they are, how they were able to fly, or whether they pose a genuine threat to America.”
...so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.
The White House however has just said "there is no evidence of aliens or extra terrestrial activity".
“so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.“
The Mail’s front page today shows how badly they are losing it. That arch remainers will meet in a country house and go through a PowerPoint slide pack is not a news story - that arch brexiteers like Gove joined them is a news story, but not the angle the mail is reporting on - arch remainers plot against Brexit is how they splashing it you have to read down to find the incendiary facts Gove and other leader brexiteers were there. 😆
Brexit has really gone super-exclusive if Gove is no longer deemed a 'proper' Leaver.
Proper Leaverdom is very loosely correlated with reality. Remainer Truss is a Proper Leaver, passionate leaver Sunak is not.
I don't think we need such abstract concepts as personality/'connection to reality' (as defined by remainers naturally) to judge 'proper' leaverdom. Proper leavers wish us to use the flexibility afforded by Brexit for the benefit of the UK. That may involve actually repealing some EU laws, stepping away from some EU projects, tax cuts that were hitherto forbidden, institutional changes away from harmonised administration across the bloc etc. Some want all of those, some just some. A 'not-proper' leaver may speak through gritted teeth about 'the opportunities of Brexit' but will oppose any moves like those above that would make hiccoughs on the road to rejoining. That's why it is difficult to call Sunak or Gove 'proper leavers' at this time.
Claiming Gove is not a proper leaver just because he wants to try and make things work rather than Johnson and Rees Mogg's bull in a china shop approach is just plain dumb. He is one of the few Ministers who actually tried to start doing something positive around post Brexit reforms, particularly at DEFRA. The idea that the only 'pure and proper' Brexit is one that sweeps away every last vestige of EU law in as short a time as possible is really, really stupid.
I agree with you. I think it goes back to how the Mail were being so weird in how they covered the story. It’s not just the bull in a China shop Brexit that will satisfy all leave voters, to use your phrase, but it is the only Brexit that will satisfy the bull in the China shop brexiteers. Hence they build the story around Frosty the noman saying his Brexit deal is not a failure, it was never properly implemented is the failure. That’s the story the mail is pushing.
The actual story is leading brexiteers and remainers are talking to each other about next steps. Don’t get me wrong, we will probably never be in EU ever again to the extent we were - but the reason for Gove and Mandleson in a next steps seminar together is because the bull in the China shop Brexit favoured by the mail is dead, it was never going to deliver, it’s going to be consigned to the dustbin forever, because they only had the one chance to make bull in China shop Brexit work, they failed, and they will never have the power for a bull in a China shop Brexit ever again, that moment has sailed.
Hence the next steps seminar. The country moves on.
I can't find any element of this that reflects reality. Lord Frost is very critical of his own deal, which he blames on the lack of leverage because the country wasn't able to leave without a deal.
JRM's Retained EU law bill is actually quite carefully considered, and I cannot see any evidence for the sort of legal vacuum scenario that Richard mentions within the way the bill is planned. We have left the EU, why would we remain subject to EU law, and why would that law remain superior to parliamentary statute? That's not an extreme version of Brexit, it's the basic version as expected and understood by everyone on both sides of the Brexit debate.
Gove has undoubted merits, but has always been a slimy toad. It is zero surprise that nobody trusts him on Brexit - it would be daft to trust him with a sharp pair of scissors.
Ireland slipped into a bloody civil war over wether to accept a deal or not. Michael Collins led the yes to the deal faction. The labour movement split over Europe, Lord Jenkins led a labour MP faction voting for Europe membership in a crucial vote Tory Primeminister would have lost if they hadn’t. That faction become the SDP whilst Labour put Brexit into its election manifesto.
What do I mean? Sometime during the next parliament Gove leads a faction of Tory MPs into the Labour Government lobby in a big vote on tweaking the existing Brexit deal. The Tories become split and bloody civil war over it.
Anyone who thinks day after the next GE the cleansing is over and it’s all uphill for the Tories is utterly deluded.
Countess Felicity Cunliffe Lister, who lives in a castle, gains a North Yorkshire County Council seat for the Liberal Democrats from the Conservatives.
Further proof the LDs are now the posh party, not the Tories
Presumably @HYUFD would assert if the LDs don't govern it, they probably own it.
King Charles would almost certainly be a LD if he could vote too yes
Charles would have backed Corbyn, if he could.
No he wouldn't, Corbyn was a republican.
He would have voted Remain in 2016, then LD in 2017 and 2019.
He might now vote for Starmer though
KC would vote Green, shirley?
I really don't know how any of the Royal Family would voted in any GE in their lifetimes, from KC3 down though heir or spare, they really don't give much away, and rightly so.
KC3 could as easily be a Cameroon as a Green.
The Queen Mother was a Thatcherite and pro UKIP. The Queen would have been and Princess Anne and Prince Edward would be One Nation Tory, the Duke of Edinburgh more rightwing Conservative, as would Prince Andrew.
Princess Diana was New Labour as would the Sussexes be. Camilla would be more Tory than her LD husband.
The Prince and Princess of Wales are basically Cameroon Tories, probably torn between Sunak and Starmer though they wouldn't have voted for Boris or Truss
“The Pentagon is yet to recover debris from the three UFOs shot down this weekend over Alaska, Canada and Michigan and is yet to offer any kind of explanation as to what they are, how they were able to fly, or whether they pose a genuine threat to America.”
...so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.
The White House however has just said "there is no evidence of aliens or extra terrestrial activity".
“so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.“
The Mail’s front page today shows how badly they are losing it. That arch remainers will meet in a country house and go through a PowerPoint slide pack is not a news story - that arch brexiteers like Gove joined them is a news story, but not the angle the mail is reporting on - arch remainers plot against Brexit is how they splashing it you have to read down to find the incendiary facts Gove and other leader brexiteers were there. 😆
Brexit has really gone super-exclusive if Gove is no longer deemed a 'proper' Leaver.
Proper Leaverdom is very loosely correlated with reality. Remainer Truss is a Proper Leaver, passionate leaver Sunak is not.
I don't think we need such abstract concepts as personality/'connection to reality' (as defined by remainers naturally) to judge 'proper' leaverdom. Proper leavers wish us to use the flexibility afforded by Brexit for the benefit of the UK. That may involve actually repealing some EU laws, stepping away from some EU projects, tax cuts that were hitherto forbidden, institutional changes away from harmonised administration across the bloc etc. Some want all of those, some just some. A 'not-proper' leaver may speak through gritted teeth about 'the opportunities of Brexit' but will oppose any moves like those above that would make hiccoughs on the road to rejoining. That's why it is difficult to call Sunak or Gove 'proper leavers' at this time.
Claiming Gove is not a proper leaver just because he wants to try and make things work rather than Johnson and Rees Mogg's bull in a china shop approach is just plain dumb. He is one of the few Ministers who actually tried to start doing something positive around post Brexit reforms, particularly at DEFRA. The idea that the only 'pure and proper' Brexit is one that sweeps away every last vestige of EU law in as short a time as possible is really, really stupid.
I agree with you. I think it goes back to how the Mail were being so weird in how they covered the story. It’s not just the bull in a China shop Brexit that will satisfy all leave voters, to use your phrase, but it is the only Brexit that will satisfy the bull in the China shop brexiteers. Hence they build the story around Frosty the noman saying his Brexit deal is not a failure, it was never properly implemented is the failure. That’s the story the mail is pushing.
The actual story is leading brexiteers and remainers are talking to each other about next steps. Don’t get me wrong, we will probably never be in EU ever again to the extent we were - but the reason for Gove and Mandleson in a next steps seminar together is because the bull in the China shop Brexit favoured by the mail is dead, it was never going to deliver, it’s going to be consigned to the dustbin forever, because they only had the one chance to make bull in China shop Brexit work, they failed, and they will never have the power for a bull in a China shop Brexit ever again, that moment has sailed.
Hence the next steps seminar. The country moves on.
And the hardcore headbangers continue to headbang.
“The Pentagon is yet to recover debris from the three UFOs shot down this weekend over Alaska, Canada and Michigan and is yet to offer any kind of explanation as to what they are, how they were able to fly, or whether they pose a genuine threat to America.”
...so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.
The White House however has just said "there is no evidence of aliens or extra terrestrial activity".
“so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.“
The Mail’s front page today shows how badly they are losing it. That arch remainers will meet in a country house and go through a PowerPoint slide pack is not a news story - that arch brexiteers like Gove joined them is a news story, but not the angle the mail is reporting on - arch remainers plot against Brexit is how they splashing it you have to read down to find the incendiary facts Gove and other leader brexiteers were there. 😆
Brexit has really gone super-exclusive if Gove is no longer deemed a 'proper' Leaver.
Proper Leaverdom is very loosely correlated with reality. Remainer Truss is a Proper Leaver, passionate leaver Sunak is not.
I don't think we need such abstract concepts as personality/'connection to reality' (as defined by remainers naturally) to judge 'proper' leaverdom. Proper leavers wish us to use the flexibility afforded by Brexit for the benefit of the UK. That may involve actually repealing some EU laws, stepping away from some EU projects, tax cuts that were hitherto forbidden, institutional changes away from harmonised administration across the bloc etc. Some want all of those, some just some. A 'not-proper' leaver may speak through gritted teeth about 'the opportunities of Brexit' but will oppose any moves like those above that would make hiccoughs on the road to rejoining. That's why it is difficult to call Sunak or Gove 'proper leavers' at this time.
Claiming Gove is not a proper leaver just because he wants to try and make things work rather than Johnson and Rees Mogg's bull in a china shop approach is just plain dumb. He is one of the few Ministers who actually tried to start doing something positive around post Brexit reforms, particularly at DEFRA. The idea that the only 'pure and proper' Brexit is one that sweeps away every last vestige of EU law in as short a time as possible is really, really stupid.
I didn't notice a 'bull in the china shop' approach to uncoupling with the EU from Boris - as far as I can see we made very little progress in that area at all during his tenure. We must all speak as we find. I am sure some of Gove's DEFRA reforms have been positive, but during our time within the CAP, we had farmers making money from such things as set aside, we had orchards ripped up, we were the only EU country with a milk quota lower than its population needs. Environmental concerns are hugely important, but I would have hoped that any post-Brexit agricultural strategy would have had increasing the production of good quality domestic food as a core aim. Subsidising things like re-wilding efforts seems to me very much in line with current EU policy, whether or not the policies match precisely. I could be very wrong and I freely admit that is a surface surmise.
I don't agree with sweeping away EU law for the sake of it either, but I absolutely agree that it should be done where it is clear that there is an advantage in doing so. Hopefully you would agree.
Yes I would agree with removing EU law as necessary. But setting an arbitrary date for that without really worrying about what will replace it is Blair levels of stupidity (remembering he tried to get rid of the Lord Chancellor in 2003 without realising that without the post no laws could be promulgated by Parliament)
Before that date (31 December 2023), Government Departments and the devolved Administrations will determine which retained EU law can be reformed to benefit the UK, which can expire, and which needs to be preserved and incorporated into domestic law in modified form. They will also decide if retained EU law needs to be codified as it is preserved, in order to preserve specific policy effects which are beneficial to keep.
The Bill includes an extension mechanism for the sunset of specified pieces of retained EU law until 2026. Should it be required, this will allow Departments additional time where necessary to implement more complex reforms to specific pieces of retained EU law, including any necessary legislation.
I agree that EU law that is right, must be retained and added to the domestic statute book, but that is the plan. It just won't have special status under the law by being 'EU law' any more. That is fair, and I can't see why anyone who is actually in favour of Brexit would disagree.
Because the reality was that JRM and the rest of the crew were effectively doing little to nothing to actually ensure that the work was done to achieve their aim. Bear in mind that any EU law or regulation that has not been revised and brought into English law by the end of 2023 automatically falls. Moreover a lot of this should be being done by Parliament rather than simply decided by a minister. Many Brexit supporters are just as unhappy about the way this is being done as former Remainers are.
It would not automatically 'fall', it would be transferred to a parliamentary statute and have its status as EU law removed.
The relevant line is this:
Any retained EU law that remains in force after the sunset date will be assimilated in the domestic statute book, by the removal of the special EU law features previously attached to it.
That doesn't seem scary to me. I also don't think a hard deadline is a bad thing, given the supreme lack of activity you correctly identify that we've seen.
This looks bad. Footage on the ground from East Palestine, Ohio (February 10, 2023) following the controlled burn of the extremely hazardous chemical Vinyl Chloride that spilled during a train derailment (volume warning) https://twitter.com/more_shower/status/1624937676292907008
Ohio: Dead fish and cattle being reported as far as 100 miles away from the site.
Journalists covering the story have been arrested.
Countess Felicity Cunliffe Lister, who lives in a castle, gains a North Yorkshire County Council seat for the Liberal Democrats from the Conservatives.
Further proof the LDs are now the posh party, not the Tories
Presumably @HYUFD would assert if the LDs don't govern it, they probably own it.
King Charles would almost certainly be a LD if he could vote too yes
Charles would have backed Corbyn, if he could.
No he wouldn't, Corbyn was a republican.
He would have voted Remain in 2016, then LD in 2017 and 2019.
He might now vote for Starmer though
KC would vote Green, shirley?
I really don't know how any of the Royal Family would voted in any GE in their lifetimes, from KC3 down though heir or spare, they really don't give much away, and rightly so.
KC3 could as easily be a Cameroon as a Green.
The Queen Mother was a Thatcherite and pro UKIP. The Queen would have been and Princess Anne and Prince Edward would be One Nation Tory, the Duke of Edinburgh more rightwing Conservative, as would Prince Andrew.
Princess Diana was New Labour as would the Sussexes be. Camilla would be more Tory than her LD husband.
The Prince and Princess of Wales are basically Cameroon Tories, probably torn between Sunak and Starmer though they wouldn't have voted for Boris or Truss
The 14th Earl of Wimborne would have voted for Boris.
“The Pentagon is yet to recover debris from the three UFOs shot down this weekend over Alaska, Canada and Michigan and is yet to offer any kind of explanation as to what they are, how they were able to fly, or whether they pose a genuine threat to America.”
...so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.
The White House however has just said "there is no evidence of aliens or extra terrestrial activity".
“so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.“
The Mail’s front page today shows how badly they are losing it. That arch remainers will meet in a country house and go through a PowerPoint slide pack is not a news story - that arch brexiteers like Gove joined them is a news story, but not the angle the mail is reporting on - arch remainers plot against Brexit is how they splashing it you have to read down to find the incendiary facts Gove and other leader brexiteers were there. 😆
Brexit has really gone super-exclusive if Gove is no longer deemed a 'proper' Leaver.
Proper Leaverdom is very loosely correlated with reality. Remainer Truss is a Proper Leaver, passionate leaver Sunak is not.
I don't think we need such abstract concepts as personality/'connection to reality' (as defined by remainers naturally) to judge 'proper' leaverdom. Proper leavers wish us to use the flexibility afforded by Brexit for the benefit of the UK. That may involve actually repealing some EU laws, stepping away from some EU projects, tax cuts that were hitherto forbidden, institutional changes away from harmonised administration across the bloc etc. Some want all of those, some just some. A 'not-proper' leaver may speak through gritted teeth about 'the opportunities of Brexit' but will oppose any moves like those above that would make hiccoughs on the road to rejoining. That's why it is difficult to call Sunak or Gove 'proper leavers' at this time.
Claiming Gove is not a proper leaver just because he wants to try and make things work rather than Johnson and Rees Mogg's bull in a china shop approach is just plain dumb. He is one of the few Ministers who actually tried to start doing something positive around post Brexit reforms, particularly at DEFRA. The idea that the only 'pure and proper' Brexit is one that sweeps away every last vestige of EU law in as short a time as possible is really, really stupid.
I agree with you. I think it goes back to how the Mail were being so weird in how they covered the story. It’s not just the bull in a China shop Brexit that will satisfy all leave voters, to use your phrase, but it is the only Brexit that will satisfy the bull in the China shop brexiteers. Hence they build the story around Frosty the noman saying his Brexit deal is not a failure, it was never properly implemented is the failure. That’s the story the mail is pushing.
The actual story is leading brexiteers and remainers are talking to each other about next steps. Don’t get me wrong, we will probably never be in EU ever again to the extent we were - but the reason for Gove and Mandleson in a next steps seminar together is because the bull in the China shop Brexit favoured by the mail is dead, it was never going to deliver, it’s going to be consigned to the dustbin forever, because they only had the one chance to make bull in China shop Brexit work, they failed, and they will never have the power for a bull in a China shop Brexit ever again, that moment has sailed.
Hence the next steps seminar. The country moves on.
I can't find any element of this that reflects reality. Lord Frost is very critical of his own deal, which he blames on the lack of leverage because the country wasn't able to leave without a deal.
JRM's Retained EU law bill is actually quite carefully considered, and I cannot see any evidence for the sort of legal vacuum scenario that Richard mentions within the way the bill is planned. We have left the EU, why would we remain subject to EU law, and why would that law remain superior to parliamentary statute? That's not an extreme version of Brexit, it's the basic version as expected and understood by everyone on both sides of the Brexit debate.
Gove has undoubted merits, but has always been a slimy toad. It is zero surprise that nobody trusts him on Brexit - it would be daft to trust him with a sharp pair of scissors.
I’m helping a client at the moment who’s considering making business acquisitions. I can’t advise him whether or not he’ll be taking on the employees of said businesses because I don’t know whether TUPE will apply this time next year. Neither can I advise, if TUPE goes, what happens to employees on a business transfer instead of it. The law doesn’t say. Oh, and if he does take them on, I can’t advise whether his new employees will be entitled to any holiday.
“The Pentagon is yet to recover debris from the three UFOs shot down this weekend over Alaska, Canada and Michigan and is yet to offer any kind of explanation as to what they are, how they were able to fly, or whether they pose a genuine threat to America.”
...so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.
The White House however has just said "there is no evidence of aliens or extra terrestrial activity".
“so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.“
The Mail’s front page today shows how badly they are losing it. That arch remainers will meet in a country house and go through a PowerPoint slide pack is not a news story - that arch brexiteers like Gove joined them is a news story, but not the angle the mail is reporting on - arch remainers plot against Brexit is how they splashing it you have to read down to find the incendiary facts Gove and other leader brexiteers were there. 😆
Brexit has really gone super-exclusive if Gove is no longer deemed a 'proper' Leaver.
Proper Leaverdom is very loosely correlated with reality. Remainer Truss is a Proper Leaver, passionate leaver Sunak is not.
I don't think we need such abstract concepts as personality/'connection to reality' (as defined by remainers naturally) to judge 'proper' leaverdom. Proper leavers wish us to use the flexibility afforded by Brexit for the benefit of the UK. That may involve actually repealing some EU laws, stepping away from some EU projects, tax cuts that were hitherto forbidden, institutional changes away from harmonised administration across the bloc etc. Some want all of those, some just some. A 'not-proper' leaver may speak through gritted teeth about 'the opportunities of Brexit' but will oppose any moves like those above that would make hiccoughs on the road to rejoining. That's why it is difficult to call Sunak or Gove 'proper leavers' at this time.
Claiming Gove is not a proper leaver just because he wants to try and make things work rather than Johnson and Rees Mogg's bull in a china shop approach is just plain dumb. He is one of the few Ministers who actually tried to start doing something positive around post Brexit reforms, particularly at DEFRA. The idea that the only 'pure and proper' Brexit is one that sweeps away every last vestige of EU law in as short a time as possible is really, really stupid.
I agree with you. I think it goes back to how the Mail were being so weird in how they covered the story. It’s not just the bull in a China shop Brexit that will satisfy all leave voters, to use your phrase, but it is the only Brexit that will satisfy the bull in the China shop brexiteers. Hence they build the story around Frosty the noman saying his Brexit deal is not a failure, it was never properly implemented is the failure. That’s the story the mail is pushing.
The actual story is leading brexiteers and remainers are talking to each other about next steps. Don’t get me wrong, we will probably never be in EU ever again to the extent we were - but the reason for Gove and Mandleson in a next steps seminar together is because the bull in the China shop Brexit favoured by the mail is dead, it was never going to deliver, it’s going to be consigned to the dustbin forever, because they only had the one chance to make bull in China shop Brexit work, they failed, and they will never have the power for a bull in a China shop Brexit ever again, that moment has sailed.
Hence the next steps seminar. The country moves on.
I can't find any element of this that reflects reality. Lord Frost is very critical of his own deal, which he blames on the lack of leverage because the country wasn't able to leave without a deal.
JRM's Retained EU law bill is actually quite carefully considered, and I cannot see any evidence for the sort of legal vacuum scenario that Richard mentions within the way the bill is planned. We have left the EU, why would we remain subject to EU law, and why would that law remain superior to parliamentary statute? That's not an extreme version of Brexit, it's the basic version as expected and understood by everyone on both sides of the Brexit debate.
Gove has undoubted merits, but has always been a slimy toad. It is zero surprise that nobody trusts him on Brexit - it would be daft to trust him with a sharp pair of scissors.
Ireland slipped into a bloody civil war over wether to accept a deal or not. Michael Collins led the yes to the deal faction. The labour movement split over Europe, Lord Jenkins led a labour MP faction voting for Europe membership in a crucial vote Tory Primeminister would have lost if they hadn’t. That faction become the SDP whilst Labour put Brexit into its election manifesto.
What do I mean? Sometime during the next parliament Gove leads a faction of Tory MPs into the Labour Government lobby in a big vote on tweaking the existing Brexit deal. The Tories become split and bloody civil war over it.
Anyone who thinks day after the next GE the cleansing is over and it’s all uphill for the Tories is utterly deluded.
You'll be relieved to learn that I have managed to plough through one of your medium length essays. To be fair there were a few points I couldn't disagree with. But don't you think the Conservatives are like cockroaches and they will survive Armageddon?
“The Pentagon is yet to recover debris from the three UFOs shot down this weekend over Alaska, Canada and Michigan and is yet to offer any kind of explanation as to what they are, how they were able to fly, or whether they pose a genuine threat to America.”
...so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.
The White House however has just said "there is no evidence of aliens or extra terrestrial activity".
“so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.“
The Mail’s front page today shows how badly they are losing it. That arch remainers will meet in a country house and go through a PowerPoint slide pack is not a news story - that arch brexiteers like Gove joined them is a news story, but not the angle the mail is reporting on - arch remainers plot against Brexit is how they splashing it you have to read down to find the incendiary facts Gove and other leader brexiteers were there. 😆
Brexit has really gone super-exclusive if Gove is no longer deemed a 'proper' Leaver.
Proper Leaverdom is very loosely correlated with reality. Remainer Truss is a Proper Leaver, passionate leaver Sunak is not.
I don't think we need such abstract concepts as personality/'connection to reality' (as defined by remainers naturally) to judge 'proper' leaverdom. Proper leavers wish us to use the flexibility afforded by Brexit for the benefit of the UK. That may involve actually repealing some EU laws, stepping away from some EU projects, tax cuts that were hitherto forbidden, institutional changes away from harmonised administration across the bloc etc. Some want all of those, some just some. A 'not-proper' leaver may speak through gritted teeth about 'the opportunities of Brexit' but will oppose any moves like those above that would make hiccoughs on the road to rejoining. That's why it is difficult to call Sunak or Gove 'proper leavers' at this time.
Claiming Gove is not a proper leaver just because he wants to try and make things work rather than Johnson and Rees Mogg's bull in a china shop approach is just plain dumb. He is one of the few Ministers who actually tried to start doing something positive around post Brexit reforms, particularly at DEFRA. The idea that the only 'pure and proper' Brexit is one that sweeps away every last vestige of EU law in as short a time as possible is really, really stupid.
I agree with you. I think it goes back to how the Mail were being so weird in how they covered the story. It’s not just the bull in a China shop Brexit that will satisfy all leave voters, to use your phrase, but it is the only Brexit that will satisfy the bull in the China shop brexiteers. Hence they build the story around Frosty the noman saying his Brexit deal is not a failure, it was never properly implemented is the failure. That’s the story the mail is pushing.
The actual story is leading brexiteers and remainers are talking to each other about next steps. Don’t get me wrong, we will probably never be in EU ever again to the extent we were - but the reason for Gove and Mandleson in a next steps seminar together is because the bull in the China shop Brexit favoured by the mail is dead, it was never going to deliver, it’s going to be consigned to the dustbin forever, because they only had the one chance to make bull in China shop Brexit work, they failed, and they will never have the power for a bull in a China shop Brexit ever again, that moment has sailed.
Hence the next steps seminar. The country moves on.
And the hardcore headbangers continue to headbang.
Agreed.
❤️ Onana btw
It's an interesting definition of a 'headbanger' - someone who thinks Brexit means not being subject to EU law any more. I mean - 'duh'?
“The Pentagon is yet to recover debris from the three UFOs shot down this weekend over Alaska, Canada and Michigan and is yet to offer any kind of explanation as to what they are, how they were able to fly, or whether they pose a genuine threat to America.”
...so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.
The White House however has just said "there is no evidence of aliens or extra terrestrial activity".
“so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.“
The Mail’s front page today shows how badly they are losing it. That arch remainers will meet in a country house and go through a PowerPoint slide pack is not a news story - that arch brexiteers like Gove joined them is a news story, but not the angle the mail is reporting on - arch remainers plot against Brexit is how they splashing it you have to read down to find the incendiary facts Gove and other leader brexiteers were there. 😆
Brexit has really gone super-exclusive if Gove is no longer deemed a 'proper' Leaver.
Proper Leaverdom is very loosely correlated with reality. Remainer Truss is a Proper Leaver, passionate leaver Sunak is not.
I don't think we need such abstract concepts as personality/'connection to reality' (as defined by remainers naturally) to judge 'proper' leaverdom. Proper leavers wish us to use the flexibility afforded by Brexit for the benefit of the UK. That may involve actually repealing some EU laws, stepping away from some EU projects, tax cuts that were hitherto forbidden, institutional changes away from harmonised administration across the bloc etc. Some want all of those, some just some. A 'not-proper' leaver may speak through gritted teeth about 'the opportunities of Brexit' but will oppose any moves like those above that would make hiccoughs on the road to rejoining. That's why it is difficult to call Sunak or Gove 'proper leavers' at this time.
Claiming Gove is not a proper leaver just because he wants to try and make things work rather than Johnson and Rees Mogg's bull in a china shop approach is just plain dumb. He is one of the few Ministers who actually tried to start doing something positive around post Brexit reforms, particularly at DEFRA. The idea that the only 'pure and proper' Brexit is one that sweeps away every last vestige of EU law in as short a time as possible is really, really stupid.
I agree with you. I think it goes back to how the Mail were being so weird in how they covered the story. It’s not just the bull in a China shop Brexit that will satisfy all leave voters, to use your phrase, but it is the only Brexit that will satisfy the bull in the China shop brexiteers. Hence they build the story around Frosty the noman saying his Brexit deal is not a failure, it was never properly implemented is the failure. That’s the story the mail is pushing.
The actual story is leading brexiteers and remainers are talking to each other about next steps. Don’t get me wrong, we will probably never be in EU ever again to the extent we were - but the reason for Gove and Mandleson in a next steps seminar together is because the bull in the China shop Brexit favoured by the mail is dead, it was never going to deliver, it’s going to be consigned to the dustbin forever, because they only had the one chance to make bull in China shop Brexit work, they failed, and they will never have the power for a bull in a China shop Brexit ever again, that moment has sailed.
Hence the next steps seminar. The country moves on.
And the hardcore headbangers continue to headbang.
Agreed.
❤️ Onana btw
It's an interesting definition of a 'headbanger' - someone who thinks Brexit means not being subject to EU law any more. I mean - 'duh'?
You presumed we were talking about you, and took it personally?
“The Pentagon is yet to recover debris from the three UFOs shot down this weekend over Alaska, Canada and Michigan and is yet to offer any kind of explanation as to what they are, how they were able to fly, or whether they pose a genuine threat to America.”
...so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.
The White House however has just said "there is no evidence of aliens or extra terrestrial activity".
“so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.“
The Mail’s front page today shows how badly they are losing it. That arch remainers will meet in a country house and go through a PowerPoint slide pack is not a news story - that arch brexiteers like Gove joined them is a news story, but not the angle the mail is reporting on - arch remainers plot against Brexit is how they splashing it you have to read down to find the incendiary facts Gove and other leader brexiteers were there. 😆
Brexit has really gone super-exclusive if Gove is no longer deemed a 'proper' Leaver.
Proper Leaverdom is very loosely correlated with reality. Remainer Truss is a Proper Leaver, passionate leaver Sunak is not.
I don't think we need such abstract concepts as personality/'connection to reality' (as defined by remainers naturally) to judge 'proper' leaverdom. Proper leavers wish us to use the flexibility afforded by Brexit for the benefit of the UK. That may involve actually repealing some EU laws, stepping away from some EU projects, tax cuts that were hitherto forbidden, institutional changes away from harmonised administration across the bloc etc. Some want all of those, some just some. A 'not-proper' leaver may speak through gritted teeth about 'the opportunities of Brexit' but will oppose any moves like those above that would make hiccoughs on the road to rejoining. That's why it is difficult to call Sunak or Gove 'proper leavers' at this time.
Claiming Gove is not a proper leaver just because he wants to try and make things work rather than Johnson and Rees Mogg's bull in a china shop approach is just plain dumb. He is one of the few Ministers who actually tried to start doing something positive around post Brexit reforms, particularly at DEFRA. The idea that the only 'pure and proper' Brexit is one that sweeps away every last vestige of EU law in as short a time as possible is really, really stupid.
I agree with you. I think it goes back to how the Mail were being so weird in how they covered the story. It’s not just the bull in a China shop Brexit that will satisfy all leave voters, to use your phrase, but it is the only Brexit that will satisfy the bull in the China shop brexiteers. Hence they build the story around Frosty the noman saying his Brexit deal is not a failure, it was never properly implemented is the failure. That’s the story the mail is pushing.
The actual story is leading brexiteers and remainers are talking to each other about next steps. Don’t get me wrong, we will probably never be in EU ever again to the extent we were - but the reason for Gove and Mandleson in a next steps seminar together is because the bull in the China shop Brexit favoured by the mail is dead, it was never going to deliver, it’s going to be consigned to the dustbin forever, because they only had the one chance to make bull in China shop Brexit work, they failed, and they will never have the power for a bull in a China shop Brexit ever again, that moment has sailed.
Hence the next steps seminar. The country moves on.
I can't find any element of this that reflects reality. Lord Frost is very critical of his own deal, which he blames on the lack of leverage because the country wasn't able to leave without a deal.
JRM's Retained EU law bill is actually quite carefully considered, and I cannot see any evidence for the sort of legal vacuum scenario that Richard mentions within the way the bill is planned. We have left the EU, why would we remain subject to EU law, and why would that law remain superior to parliamentary statute? That's not an extreme version of Brexit, it's the basic version as expected and understood by everyone on both sides of the Brexit debate.
Gove has undoubted merits, but has always been a slimy toad. It is zero surprise that nobody trusts him on Brexit - it would be daft to trust him with a sharp pair of scissors.
What we want is British laws to replace the EU ones. I'm sure there are some which can simply be binned without anyone noticing, but for the most part those laws were passed in order to solve some particular problems. Had the UK not been part of the EU, our Parliament would most likely have drafted its own laws to address those matters. As we were members of the EU at the time, we effectively out-sourced the drafting to the EU, and bringing this process back in-house ought to mean that Parliament considers what to replace those laws with. Scrapping large numbers of laws with no idea what might replace them just doesn't make much sense to me. Some expedited process for doing this makes sense, but this just looks like the laziest possible option, with the least consideration of the consequences.
Countess Felicity Cunliffe Lister, who lives in a castle, gains a North Yorkshire County Council seat for the Liberal Democrats from the Conservatives.
Further proof the LDs are now the posh party, not the Tories
Presumably @HYUFD would assert if the LDs don't govern it, they probably own it.
King Charles would almost certainly be a LD if he could vote too yes
Charles would have backed Corbyn, if he could.
No he wouldn't, Corbyn was a republican.
He would have voted Remain in 2016, then LD in 2017 and 2019.
He might now vote for Starmer though
KC would vote Green, shirley?
I really don't know how any of the Royal Family would voted in any GE in their lifetimes, from KC3 down though heir or spare, they really don't give much away, and rightly so.
KC3 could as easily be a Cameroon as a Green.
The Queen Mother was a Thatcherite and pro UKIP. The Queen would have been and Princess Anne and Prince Edward would be One Nation Tory, the Duke of Edinburgh more rightwing Conservative, as would Prince Andrew.
Princess Diana was New Labour as would the Sussexes be. Camilla would be more Tory than her LD husband.
The Prince and Princess of Wales are basically Cameroon Tories, probably torn between Sunak and Starmer though they wouldn't have voted for Boris or Truss
How do you know all this?
Don't forget it was reported that Kate and Baldy blackballed Blair and Brown from attending their wedding.
“The Pentagon is yet to recover debris from the three UFOs shot down this weekend over Alaska, Canada and Michigan and is yet to offer any kind of explanation as to what they are, how they were able to fly, or whether they pose a genuine threat to America.”
...so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.
The White House however has just said "there is no evidence of aliens or extra terrestrial activity".
“so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.“
The Mail’s front page today shows how badly they are losing it. That arch remainers will meet in a country house and go through a PowerPoint slide pack is not a news story - that arch brexiteers like Gove joined them is a news story, but not the angle the mail is reporting on - arch remainers plot against Brexit is how they splashing it you have to read down to find the incendiary facts Gove and other leader brexiteers were there. 😆
Brexit has really gone super-exclusive if Gove is no longer deemed a 'proper' Leaver.
Proper Leaverdom is very loosely correlated with reality. Remainer Truss is a Proper Leaver, passionate leaver Sunak is not.
I don't think we need such abstract concepts as personality/'connection to reality' (as defined by remainers naturally) to judge 'proper' leaverdom. Proper leavers wish us to use the flexibility afforded by Brexit for the benefit of the UK. That may involve actually repealing some EU laws, stepping away from some EU projects, tax cuts that were hitherto forbidden, institutional changes away from harmonised administration across the bloc etc. Some want all of those, some just some. A 'not-proper' leaver may speak through gritted teeth about 'the opportunities of Brexit' but will oppose any moves like those above that would make hiccoughs on the road to rejoining. That's why it is difficult to call Sunak or Gove 'proper leavers' at this time.
Claiming Gove is not a proper leaver just because he wants to try and make things work rather than Johnson and Rees Mogg's bull in a china shop approach is just plain dumb. He is one of the few Ministers who actually tried to start doing something positive around post Brexit reforms, particularly at DEFRA. The idea that the only 'pure and proper' Brexit is one that sweeps away every last vestige of EU law in as short a time as possible is really, really stupid.
I didn't notice a 'bull in the china shop' approach to uncoupling with the EU from Boris - as far as I can see we made very little progress in that area at all during his tenure. We must all speak as we find. I am sure some of Gove's DEFRA reforms have been positive, but during our time within the CAP, we had farmers making money from such things as set aside, we had orchards ripped up, we were the only EU country with a milk quota lower than its population needs. Environmental concerns are hugely important, but I would have hoped that any post-Brexit agricultural strategy would have had increasing the production of good quality domestic food as a core aim. Subsidising things like re-wilding efforts seems to me very much in line with current EU policy, whether or not the policies match precisely. I could be very wrong and I freely admit that is a surface surmise.
I don't agree with sweeping away EU law for the sake of it either, but I absolutely agree that it should be done where it is clear that there is an advantage in doing so. Hopefully you would agree.
Yes I would agree with removing EU law as necessary. But setting an arbitrary date for that without really worrying about what will replace it is Blair levels of stupidity (remembering he tried to get rid of the Lord Chancellor in 2003 without realising that without the post no laws could be promulgated by Parliament)
Before that date (31 December 2023), Government Departments and the devolved Administrations will determine which retained EU law can be reformed to benefit the UK, which can expire, and which needs to be preserved and incorporated into domestic law in modified form. They will also decide if retained EU law needs to be codified as it is preserved, in order to preserve specific policy effects which are beneficial to keep.
The Bill includes an extension mechanism for the sunset of specified pieces of retained EU law until 2026. Should it be required, this will allow Departments additional time where necessary to implement more complex reforms to specific pieces of retained EU law, including any necessary legislation.
I agree that EU law that is right, must be retained and added to the domestic statute book, but that is the plan. It just won't have special status under the law by being 'EU law' any more. That is fair, and I can't see why anyone who is actually in favour of Brexit would disagree.
Because the reality was that JRM and the rest of the crew were effectively doing little to nothing to actually ensure that the work was done to achieve their aim. Bear in mind that any EU law or regulation that has not been revised and brought into English law by the end of 2023 automatically falls. Moreover a lot of this should be being done by Parliament rather than simply decided by a minister. Many Brexit supporters are just as unhappy about the way this is being done as former Remainers are.
It would not automatically 'fall', it would be transferred to a parliamentary statute and have its status as EU law removed.
The relevant line is this:
Any retained EU law that remains in force after the sunset date will be assimilated in the domestic statute book, by the removal of the special EU law features previously attached to it.
That doesn't seem scary to me. I also don't think a hard deadline is a bad thing, given the supreme lack of activity you correctly identify that we've seen.
But that can't happen without the work being done. That is the whole point. Otherwise the law become meaningless and would cause nothing but confusion.
I agree that we should be transcribing EU laws and getting rid of those we don't need. But that all takes time and a hell of a lot of work, negotiation and debate - much of which should rightly be done by Parliament not by ministers. There is absolutely no need for the artificial deadline., It is pointless and counter productive. Much like JRM himself.
“The Pentagon is yet to recover debris from the three UFOs shot down this weekend over Alaska, Canada and Michigan and is yet to offer any kind of explanation as to what they are, how they were able to fly, or whether they pose a genuine threat to America.”
...so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.
The White House however has just said "there is no evidence of aliens or extra terrestrial activity".
“so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.“
The Mail’s front page today shows how badly they are losing it. That arch remainers will meet in a country house and go through a PowerPoint slide pack is not a news story - that arch brexiteers like Gove joined them is a news story, but not the angle the mail is reporting on - arch remainers plot against Brexit is how they splashing it you have to read down to find the incendiary facts Gove and other leader brexiteers were there. 😆
Brexit has really gone super-exclusive if Gove is no longer deemed a 'proper' Leaver.
Proper Leaverdom is very loosely correlated with reality. Remainer Truss is a Proper Leaver, passionate leaver Sunak is not.
I don't think we need such abstract concepts as personality/'connection to reality' (as defined by remainers naturally) to judge 'proper' leaverdom. Proper leavers wish us to use the flexibility afforded by Brexit for the benefit of the UK. That may involve actually repealing some EU laws, stepping away from some EU projects, tax cuts that were hitherto forbidden, institutional changes away from harmonised administration across the bloc etc. Some want all of those, some just some. A 'not-proper' leaver may speak through gritted teeth about 'the opportunities of Brexit' but will oppose any moves like those above that would make hiccoughs on the road to rejoining. That's why it is difficult to call Sunak or Gove 'proper leavers' at this time.
Claiming Gove is not a proper leaver just because he wants to try and make things work rather than Johnson and Rees Mogg's bull in a china shop approach is just plain dumb. He is one of the few Ministers who actually tried to start doing something positive around post Brexit reforms, particularly at DEFRA. The idea that the only 'pure and proper' Brexit is one that sweeps away every last vestige of EU law in as short a time as possible is really, really stupid.
I agree with you. I think it goes back to how the Mail were being so weird in how they covered the story. It’s not just the bull in a China shop Brexit that will satisfy all leave voters, to use your phrase, but it is the only Brexit that will satisfy the bull in the China shop brexiteers. Hence they build the story around Frosty the noman saying his Brexit deal is not a failure, it was never properly implemented is the failure. That’s the story the mail is pushing.
The actual story is leading brexiteers and remainers are talking to each other about next steps. Don’t get me wrong, we will probably never be in EU ever again to the extent we were - but the reason for Gove and Mandleson in a next steps seminar together is because the bull in the China shop Brexit favoured by the mail is dead, it was never going to deliver, it’s going to be consigned to the dustbin forever, because they only had the one chance to make bull in China shop Brexit work, they failed, and they will never have the power for a bull in a China shop Brexit ever again, that moment has sailed.
Hence the next steps seminar. The country moves on.
I can't find any element of this that reflects reality. Lord Frost is very critical of his own deal, which he blames on the lack of leverage because the country wasn't able to leave without a deal.
JRM's Retained EU law bill is actually quite carefully considered, and I cannot see any evidence for the sort of legal vacuum scenario that Richard mentions within the way the bill is planned. We have left the EU, why would we remain subject to EU law, and why would that law remain superior to parliamentary statute? That's not an extreme version of Brexit, it's the basic version as expected and understood by everyone on both sides of the Brexit debate.
Gove has undoubted merits, but has always been a slimy toad. It is zero surprise that nobody trusts him on Brexit - it would be daft to trust him with a sharp pair of scissors.
Ireland slipped into a bloody civil war over wether to accept a deal or not. Michael Collins led the yes to the deal faction. The labour movement split over Europe, Lord Jenkins led a labour MP faction voting for Europe membership in a crucial vote Tory Primeminister would have lost if they hadn’t. That faction become the SDP whilst Labour put Brexit into its election manifesto.
What do I mean? Sometime during the next parliament Gove leads a faction of Tory MPs into the Labour Government lobby in a big vote on tweaking the existing Brexit deal. The Tories become split and bloody civil war over it.
Anyone who thinks day after the next GE the cleansing is over and it’s all uphill for the Tories is utterly deluded.
You'll be relieved to learn that I have managed to plough through one of your medium length essays. To be fair there were a few points I couldn't disagree with. But don't you think the Conservatives are like cockroaches and they will survive Armageddon?
You are the michevious and naughtiest poster here. You might well be Michael Gove.
And stop your relentless teasing of HY, hallelujah indeed. 😠
“The Pentagon is yet to recover debris from the three UFOs shot down this weekend over Alaska, Canada and Michigan and is yet to offer any kind of explanation as to what they are, how they were able to fly, or whether they pose a genuine threat to America.”
...so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.
The White House however has just said "there is no evidence of aliens or extra terrestrial activity".
“so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.“
The Mail’s front page today shows how badly they are losing it. That arch remainers will meet in a country house and go through a PowerPoint slide pack is not a news story - that arch brexiteers like Gove joined them is a news story, but not the angle the mail is reporting on - arch remainers plot against Brexit is how they splashing it you have to read down to find the incendiary facts Gove and other leader brexiteers were there. 😆
Brexit has really gone super-exclusive if Gove is no longer deemed a 'proper' Leaver.
Proper Leaverdom is very loosely correlated with reality. Remainer Truss is a Proper Leaver, passionate leaver Sunak is not.
I don't think we need such abstract concepts as personality/'connection to reality' (as defined by remainers naturally) to judge 'proper' leaverdom. Proper leavers wish us to use the flexibility afforded by Brexit for the benefit of the UK. That may involve actually repealing some EU laws, stepping away from some EU projects, tax cuts that were hitherto forbidden, institutional changes away from harmonised administration across the bloc etc. Some want all of those, some just some. A 'not-proper' leaver may speak through gritted teeth about 'the opportunities of Brexit' but will oppose any moves like those above that would make hiccoughs on the road to rejoining. That's why it is difficult to call Sunak or Gove 'proper leavers' at this time.
Claiming Gove is not a proper leaver just because he wants to try and make things work rather than Johnson and Rees Mogg's bull in a china shop approach is just plain dumb. He is one of the few Ministers who actually tried to start doing something positive around post Brexit reforms, particularly at DEFRA. The idea that the only 'pure and proper' Brexit is one that sweeps away every last vestige of EU law in as short a time as possible is really, really stupid.
I agree with you. I think it goes back to how the Mail were being so weird in how they covered the story. It’s not just the bull in a China shop Brexit that will satisfy all leave voters, to use your phrase, but it is the only Brexit that will satisfy the bull in the China shop brexiteers. Hence they build the story around Frosty the noman saying his Brexit deal is not a failure, it was never properly implemented is the failure. That’s the story the mail is pushing.
The actual story is leading brexiteers and remainers are talking to each other about next steps. Don’t get me wrong, we will probably never be in EU ever again to the extent we were - but the reason for Gove and Mandleson in a next steps seminar together is because the bull in the China shop Brexit favoured by the mail is dead, it was never going to deliver, it’s going to be consigned to the dustbin forever, because they only had the one chance to make bull in China shop Brexit work, they failed, and they will never have the power for a bull in a China shop Brexit ever again, that moment has sailed.
Hence the next steps seminar. The country moves on.
I can't find any element of this that reflects reality. Lord Frost is very critical of his own deal, which he blames on the lack of leverage because the country wasn't able to leave without a deal.
JRM's Retained EU law bill is actually quite carefully considered, and I cannot see any evidence for the sort of legal vacuum scenario that Richard mentions within the way the bill is planned. We have left the EU, why would we remain subject to EU law, and why would that law remain superior to parliamentary statute? That's not an extreme version of Brexit, it's the basic version as expected and understood by everyone on both sides of the Brexit debate.
Gove has undoubted merits, but has always been a slimy toad. It is zero surprise that nobody trusts him on Brexit - it would be daft to trust him with a sharp pair of scissors.
Ireland slipped into a bloody civil war over wether to accept a deal or not. Michael Collins led the yes to the deal faction. The labour movement split over Europe, Lord Jenkins led a labour MP faction voting for Europe membership in a crucial vote Tory Primeminister would have lost if they hadn’t. That faction become the SDP whilst Labour put Brexit into its election manifesto.
What do I mean? Sometime during the next parliament Gove leads a faction of Tory MPs into the Labour Government lobby in a big vote on tweaking the existing Brexit deal. The Tories become split and bloody civil war over it.
Anyone who thinks day after the next GE the cleansing is over and it’s all uphill for the Tories is utterly deluded.
You'll be relieved to learn that I have managed to plough through one of your medium length essays. To be fair there were a few points I couldn't disagree with. But don't you think the Conservatives are like cockroaches and they will survive Armageddon?
You are the michevious and naughtiest poster here. You might well be Michael Gove.
And stop your relentless teasing of HY, hallelujah indeed. 😠
If we can’t relentlessly tease HY what’s the point in being here?
“The Pentagon is yet to recover debris from the three UFOs shot down this weekend over Alaska, Canada and Michigan and is yet to offer any kind of explanation as to what they are, how they were able to fly, or whether they pose a genuine threat to America.”
...so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.
The White House however has just said "there is no evidence of aliens or extra terrestrial activity".
“so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.“
The Mail’s front page today shows how badly they are losing it. That arch remainers will meet in a country house and go through a PowerPoint slide pack is not a news story - that arch brexiteers like Gove joined them is a news story, but not the angle the mail is reporting on - arch remainers plot against Brexit is how they splashing it you have to read down to find the incendiary facts Gove and other leader brexiteers were there. 😆
Brexit has really gone super-exclusive if Gove is no longer deemed a 'proper' Leaver.
Proper Leaverdom is very loosely correlated with reality. Remainer Truss is a Proper Leaver, passionate leaver Sunak is not.
I don't think we need such abstract concepts as personality/'connection to reality' (as defined by remainers naturally) to judge 'proper' leaverdom. Proper leavers wish us to use the flexibility afforded by Brexit for the benefit of the UK. That may involve actually repealing some EU laws, stepping away from some EU projects, tax cuts that were hitherto forbidden, institutional changes away from harmonised administration across the bloc etc. Some want all of those, some just some. A 'not-proper' leaver may speak through gritted teeth about 'the opportunities of Brexit' but will oppose any moves like those above that would make hiccoughs on the road to rejoining. That's why it is difficult to call Sunak or Gove 'proper leavers' at this time.
Claiming Gove is not a proper leaver just because he wants to try and make things work rather than Johnson and Rees Mogg's bull in a china shop approach is just plain dumb. He is one of the few Ministers who actually tried to start doing something positive around post Brexit reforms, particularly at DEFRA. The idea that the only 'pure and proper' Brexit is one that sweeps away every last vestige of EU law in as short a time as possible is really, really stupid.
I agree with you. I think it goes back to how the Mail were being so weird in how they covered the story. It’s not just the bull in a China shop Brexit that will satisfy all leave voters, to use your phrase, but it is the only Brexit that will satisfy the bull in the China shop brexiteers. Hence they build the story around Frosty the noman saying his Brexit deal is not a failure, it was never properly implemented is the failure. That’s the story the mail is pushing.
The actual story is leading brexiteers and remainers are talking to each other about next steps. Don’t get me wrong, we will probably never be in EU ever again to the extent we were - but the reason for Gove and Mandleson in a next steps seminar together is because the bull in the China shop Brexit favoured by the mail is dead, it was never going to deliver, it’s going to be consigned to the dustbin forever, because they only had the one chance to make bull in China shop Brexit work, they failed, and they will never have the power for a bull in a China shop Brexit ever again, that moment has sailed.
Hence the next steps seminar. The country moves on.
I can't find any element of this that reflects reality. Lord Frost is very critical of his own deal, which he blames on the lack of leverage because the country wasn't able to leave without a deal.
JRM's Retained EU law bill is actually quite carefully considered, and I cannot see any evidence for the sort of legal vacuum scenario that Richard mentions within the way the bill is planned. We have left the EU, why would we remain subject to EU law, and why would that law remain superior to parliamentary statute? That's not an extreme version of Brexit, it's the basic version as expected and understood by everyone on both sides of the Brexit debate.
Gove has undoubted merits, but has always been a slimy toad. It is zero surprise that nobody trusts him on Brexit - it would be daft to trust him with a sharp pair of scissors.
Gove is about the only one I would trust out of the lot of them. He at least puts the work in and listens to people. Slimy toad fits Johnson and Sunak much better as a description.
“The Pentagon is yet to recover debris from the three UFOs shot down this weekend over Alaska, Canada and Michigan and is yet to offer any kind of explanation as to what they are, how they were able to fly, or whether they pose a genuine threat to America.”
...so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.
The White House however has just said "there is no evidence of aliens or extra terrestrial activity".
“so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.“
The Mail’s front page today shows how badly they are losing it. That arch remainers will meet in a country house and go through a PowerPoint slide pack is not a news story - that arch brexiteers like Gove joined them is a news story, but not the angle the mail is reporting on - arch remainers plot against Brexit is how they splashing it you have to read down to find the incendiary facts Gove and other leader brexiteers were there. 😆
Brexit has really gone super-exclusive if Gove is no longer deemed a 'proper' Leaver.
Proper Leaverdom is very loosely correlated with reality. Remainer Truss is a Proper Leaver, passionate leaver Sunak is not.
I don't think we need such abstract concepts as personality/'connection to reality' (as defined by remainers naturally) to judge 'proper' leaverdom. Proper leavers wish us to use the flexibility afforded by Brexit for the benefit of the UK. That may involve actually repealing some EU laws, stepping away from some EU projects, tax cuts that were hitherto forbidden, institutional changes away from harmonised administration across the bloc etc. Some want all of those, some just some. A 'not-proper' leaver may speak through gritted teeth about 'the opportunities of Brexit' but will oppose any moves like those above that would make hiccoughs on the road to rejoining. That's why it is difficult to call Sunak or Gove 'proper leavers' at this time.
Claiming Gove is not a proper leaver just because he wants to try and make things work rather than Johnson and Rees Mogg's bull in a china shop approach is just plain dumb. He is one of the few Ministers who actually tried to start doing something positive around post Brexit reforms, particularly at DEFRA. The idea that the only 'pure and proper' Brexit is one that sweeps away every last vestige of EU law in as short a time as possible is really, really stupid.
I agree with you. I think it goes back to how the Mail were being so weird in how they covered the story. It’s not just the bull in a China shop Brexit that will satisfy all leave voters, to use your phrase, but it is the only Brexit that will satisfy the bull in the China shop brexiteers. Hence they build the story around Frosty the noman saying his Brexit deal is not a failure, it was never properly implemented is the failure. That’s the story the mail is pushing.
The actual story is leading brexiteers and remainers are talking to each other about next steps. Don’t get me wrong, we will probably never be in EU ever again to the extent we were - but the reason for Gove and Mandleson in a next steps seminar together is because the bull in the China shop Brexit favoured by the mail is dead, it was never going to deliver, it’s going to be consigned to the dustbin forever, because they only had the one chance to make bull in China shop Brexit work, they failed, and they will never have the power for a bull in a China shop Brexit ever again, that moment has sailed.
Hence the next steps seminar. The country moves on.
I can't find any element of this that reflects reality. Lord Frost is very critical of his own deal, which he blames on the lack of leverage because the country wasn't able to leave without a deal.
JRM's Retained EU law bill is actually quite carefully considered, and I cannot see any evidence for the sort of legal vacuum scenario that Richard mentions within the way the bill is planned. We have left the EU, why would we remain subject to EU law, and why would that law remain superior to parliamentary statute? That's not an extreme version of Brexit, it's the basic version as expected and understood by everyone on both sides of the Brexit debate.
Gove has undoubted merits, but has always been a slimy toad. It is zero surprise that nobody trusts him on Brexit - it would be daft to trust him with a sharp pair of scissors.
I’m helping a client at the moment who’s considering making business acquisitions. I can’t advise him whether or not he’ll be taking on the employees of said businesses because I don’t know whether TUPE will apply this time next year. Neither can I advise, if TUPE goes, what happens to employees on a business transfer instead of it. The law doesn’t say. Oh, and if he does take them on, I can’t advise whether his new employees will be entitled to any holiday.
There’s your legal vacuum, genius.
You can advise him that it will apply, because it will be incorporated automatically into UK law, unless the Government decides to introduce specific reforms, which incidentally is also true of any other law. My invoice is in the post.
I'd be tossing around 'genius' a bit less if I had totally embarrassed myself on tax the way you did earlier, but hey, you do you.
“The Pentagon is yet to recover debris from the three UFOs shot down this weekend over Alaska, Canada and Michigan and is yet to offer any kind of explanation as to what they are, how they were able to fly, or whether they pose a genuine threat to America.”
...so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.
The White House however has just said "there is no evidence of aliens or extra terrestrial activity".
“so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.“
The Mail’s front page today shows how badly they are losing it. That arch remainers will meet in a country house and go through a PowerPoint slide pack is not a news story - that arch brexiteers like Gove joined them is a news story, but not the angle the mail is reporting on - arch remainers plot against Brexit is how they splashing it you have to read down to find the incendiary facts Gove and other leader brexiteers were there. 😆
Brexit has really gone super-exclusive if Gove is no longer deemed a 'proper' Leaver.
Proper Leaverdom is very loosely correlated with reality. Remainer Truss is a Proper Leaver, passionate leaver Sunak is not.
I don't think we need such abstract concepts as personality/'connection to reality' (as defined by remainers naturally) to judge 'proper' leaverdom. Proper leavers wish us to use the flexibility afforded by Brexit for the benefit of the UK. That may involve actually repealing some EU laws, stepping away from some EU projects, tax cuts that were hitherto forbidden, institutional changes away from harmonised administration across the bloc etc. Some want all of those, some just some. A 'not-proper' leaver may speak through gritted teeth about 'the opportunities of Brexit' but will oppose any moves like those above that would make hiccoughs on the road to rejoining. That's why it is difficult to call Sunak or Gove 'proper leavers' at this time.
Claiming Gove is not a proper leaver just because he wants to try and make things work rather than Johnson and Rees Mogg's bull in a china shop approach is just plain dumb. He is one of the few Ministers who actually tried to start doing something positive around post Brexit reforms, particularly at DEFRA. The idea that the only 'pure and proper' Brexit is one that sweeps away every last vestige of EU law in as short a time as possible is really, really stupid.
I agree with you. I think it goes back to how the Mail were being so weird in how they covered the story. It’s not just the bull in a China shop Brexit that will satisfy all leave voters, to use your phrase, but it is the only Brexit that will satisfy the bull in the China shop brexiteers. Hence they build the story around Frosty the noman saying his Brexit deal is not a failure, it was never properly implemented is the failure. That’s the story the mail is pushing.
The actual story is leading brexiteers and remainers are talking to each other about next steps. Don’t get me wrong, we will probably never be in EU ever again to the extent we were - but the reason for Gove and Mandleson in a next steps seminar together is because the bull in the China shop Brexit favoured by the mail is dead, it was never going to deliver, it’s going to be consigned to the dustbin forever, because they only had the one chance to make bull in China shop Brexit work, they failed, and they will never have the power for a bull in a China shop Brexit ever again, that moment has sailed.
Hence the next steps seminar. The country moves on.
And the hardcore headbangers continue to headbang.
Agreed.
❤️ Onana btw
It's an interesting definition of a 'headbanger' - someone who thinks Brexit means not being subject to EU law any more. I mean - 'duh'?
You presumed we were talking about you, and took it personally?
Why do you think the US has a semiconductor industry in the first place ?
I'd prefer to have some of the highly profitable industries in the UK.
US universities, national laboratories, and west coast electronics companies clustering, plus a whole load of Cold War spending, especially on electronics for aircraft, air defence, and ballistic missiles. The desire to integrate components and build more robust systems lead to the sort of electronics production that later facilitated LSI for computer systems, and ultimately enabled the micro-computer. I'm pretty sure that giving enormous tax breaks to already huge and highly profitable companies paid no real part in it, but if I'm wrong someone can pipe up.
As Max pointed out, and as you just described, it is about funding.
The US government bought 90% of US (& the world's) semiconductor production in the industry's early years.
And the startups quoted in the article I linked are neither huge nor yet highly profitable.
Yup, if the government facilitated guaranteed buyers within the UK and subsidised the difference between global market price and buying from UK semiconductor companies for a period of 10 years it would probably be enough to get the industry going, but it would also cost tens of billions over that 10 years and even after that there's no guarantee that those companies will stay solvent once they are bidding for contracts on the open market.
Here, though, we're talking about specialist businesses. Paragraf, for instance, is developing graphene on semiconductor products.
More generally, it's about staying in the technology game. If too many leave, that becomes even harder to reverse.
I look at it the same way we did the Movie/TV subsidies which have been a huge, huge success and made the UK a TV and movie production super power. The initial costs are very high and the industry will always need some underlying support mechanism but the payoff is huge, visual media production is going to be our third largest single industry this decade after financial services and pharmaceuticals. When that production rebate was created it wasn't even in our top 20.
Completely screwed by Brexit. Your post should be in the past tense. Media has been one of the great success stories over the last 20 years. Pinewood and Shepperton have been doing roaring business backed by advertising production and all the ancillary services. A lot of the feeder industries have historically originated by the BBC which has recently been emasculated. Advertising which is the backbone of the success of the media industry and something which we have excelled at is now moving to Europe and Eastern Europe at that. It's going to go down as one of the greatest acts of self harm any country could have done to itself
Except this is just pure garbage from you. Film production revenue in the UK rose by 27% in 2022. Combined film and High End TV production revenue hit a record £6.3 billion (With $5.3 billion of that being inward investment) and according to the industry news they expect to be looking to fill an additional 20 - 40,000 vacancies by 2025. The UK advertising market grew by 10% last year to reach £35 billion. And PWC expect the UK to be the European leader in Entertainment and Media in their latest industry outlook.
Of course it did. It has been a massive and rapidly growing industry for at least 30 years. There are more UK advertising agencies around the world than there were in the UK. Our film studios -not just the big ones-have been proliferating at a rate of knots. Post production facilities had long ago outgrown Soho. It's now a massive industry. The only country who could compete with our expertise creativity and output has been the US.
But Film making is genuinely universal and the UK were sitting on the top of the pile. It is not unusual to be shooting for an American client selling a Spanish product shooting in Paris using a British production company German special effects and French /British /German crew. Make it more difficult and we lose an advantage that has taken us years to build up.
Ignoring the point I made that we have continued to expand after Brexit. Which kind of undermines the whole point of your original claim.
Guy Hands firm challenges MoD over controversial £8bn property estate Annington Property launches judicial review arguing ministry does not have right to take back houses after ‘disastrous’ sell-off https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/feb/13/guy-hands-firm-challenges-mod-over-controversial-8bn-property-estate A property company controlled by the private equity tycoon Guy Hands has started a court battle to block the reversal of the highly controversial privatisation of thousands of military homes now worth as much as £8bn.
Annington Property launched a judicial review on Monday in London’s high court, arguing that the Ministry of Defence does not have the right to take back ownership of the properties because the company has not consented and the state was exercising its power improperly. Annington is owned by Terra Firma, the private equity firm run by Hands.…
… In 1996, the Conservative government sold 57,400 houses used by military servicemen and women and their families to Annington Homes for £1.7bn in a sale and leaseback deal. Under the deal, the MoD paid rent and agreed to maintain the properties. Annington became the UK’s biggest residential property owner, and became entitled to annual rent now worth £178m.
However, the sale is widely regarded as a mistake. The value of British housing has soared since the deal was completed, and the Annington estate is valued at as much as £8bn.
In 2018 a cross-party group of MPs on the public accounts committee described the sell-off as “disastrous for taxpayers, offering no protection against the private sector making excessive gains at the taxpayer’s expense”. The government missed out on as much as £4.2bn in asset price increases, the MPs said.
“The Pentagon is yet to recover debris from the three UFOs shot down this weekend over Alaska, Canada and Michigan and is yet to offer any kind of explanation as to what they are, how they were able to fly, or whether they pose a genuine threat to America.”
...so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.
The White House however has just said "there is no evidence of aliens or extra terrestrial activity".
“so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.“
The Mail’s front page today shows how badly they are losing it. That arch remainers will meet in a country house and go through a PowerPoint slide pack is not a news story - that arch brexiteers like Gove joined them is a news story, but not the angle the mail is reporting on - arch remainers plot against Brexit is how they splashing it you have to read down to find the incendiary facts Gove and other leader brexiteers were there. 😆
Brexit has really gone super-exclusive if Gove is no longer deemed a 'proper' Leaver.
Proper Leaverdom is very loosely correlated with reality. Remainer Truss is a Proper Leaver, passionate leaver Sunak is not.
I don't think we need such abstract concepts as personality/'connection to reality' (as defined by remainers naturally) to judge 'proper' leaverdom. Proper leavers wish us to use the flexibility afforded by Brexit for the benefit of the UK. That may involve actually repealing some EU laws, stepping away from some EU projects, tax cuts that were hitherto forbidden, institutional changes away from harmonised administration across the bloc etc. Some want all of those, some just some. A 'not-proper' leaver may speak through gritted teeth about 'the opportunities of Brexit' but will oppose any moves like those above that would make hiccoughs on the road to rejoining. That's why it is difficult to call Sunak or Gove 'proper leavers' at this time.
Claiming Gove is not a proper leaver just because he wants to try and make things work rather than Johnson and Rees Mogg's bull in a china shop approach is just plain dumb. He is one of the few Ministers who actually tried to start doing something positive around post Brexit reforms, particularly at DEFRA. The idea that the only 'pure and proper' Brexit is one that sweeps away every last vestige of EU law in as short a time as possible is really, really stupid.
I agree with you. I think it goes back to how the Mail were being so weird in how they covered the story. It’s not just the bull in a China shop Brexit that will satisfy all leave voters, to use your phrase, but it is the only Brexit that will satisfy the bull in the China shop brexiteers. Hence they build the story around Frosty the noman saying his Brexit deal is not a failure, it was never properly implemented is the failure. That’s the story the mail is pushing.
The actual story is leading brexiteers and remainers are talking to each other about next steps. Don’t get me wrong, we will probably never be in EU ever again to the extent we were - but the reason for Gove and Mandleson in a next steps seminar together is because the bull in the China shop Brexit favoured by the mail is dead, it was never going to deliver, it’s going to be consigned to the dustbin forever, because they only had the one chance to make bull in China shop Brexit work, they failed, and they will never have the power for a bull in a China shop Brexit ever again, that moment has sailed.
Hence the next steps seminar. The country moves on.
And the hardcore headbangers continue to headbang.
Agreed.
❤️ Onana btw
It's an interesting definition of a 'headbanger' - someone who thinks Brexit means not being subject to EU law any more. I mean - 'duh'?
“Headbanger” is someone who has oppression fantasies that consider retaining the SI’s that the U.K. Parliament and Executive enacted into U.K. law until Parliament can debate their repeal as being “subject to EU law”.
Countess Felicity Cunliffe Lister, who lives in a castle, gains a North Yorkshire County Council seat for the Liberal Democrats from the Conservatives.
Further proof the LDs are now the posh party, not the Tories
Presumably @HYUFD would assert if the LDs don't govern it, they probably own it.
King Charles would almost certainly be a LD if he could vote too yes
Charles would have backed Corbyn, if he could.
No he wouldn't, Corbyn was a republican.
He would have voted Remain in 2016, then LD in 2017 and 2019.
He might now vote for Starmer though
KC would vote Green, shirley?
I really don't know how any of the Royal Family would voted in any GE in their lifetimes, from KC3 down though heir or spare, they really don't give much away, and rightly so.
KC3 could as easily be a Cameroon as a Green.
The Queen Mother was a Thatcherite and pro UKIP. The Queen would have been and Princess Anne and Prince Edward would be One Nation Tory, the Duke of Edinburgh more rightwing Conservative, as would Prince Andrew.
Princess Diana was New Labour as would the Sussexes be. Camilla would be more Tory than her LD husband.
The Prince and Princess of Wales are basically Cameroon Tories, probably torn between Sunak and Starmer though they wouldn't have voted for Boris or Truss
The 14th Earl of Wimborne would have voted for Boris.
“The Pentagon is yet to recover debris from the three UFOs shot down this weekend over Alaska, Canada and Michigan and is yet to offer any kind of explanation as to what they are, how they were able to fly, or whether they pose a genuine threat to America.”
...so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.
The White House however has just said "there is no evidence of aliens or extra terrestrial activity".
“so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.“
The Mail’s front page today shows how badly they are losing it. That arch remainers will meet in a country house and go through a PowerPoint slide pack is not a news story - that arch brexiteers like Gove joined them is a news story, but not the angle the mail is reporting on - arch remainers plot against Brexit is how they splashing it you have to read down to find the incendiary facts Gove and other leader brexiteers were there. 😆
Brexit has really gone super-exclusive if Gove is no longer deemed a 'proper' Leaver.
Proper Leaverdom is very loosely correlated with reality. Remainer Truss is a Proper Leaver, passionate leaver Sunak is not.
I don't think we need such abstract concepts as personality/'connection to reality' (as defined by remainers naturally) to judge 'proper' leaverdom. Proper leavers wish us to use the flexibility afforded by Brexit for the benefit of the UK. That may involve actually repealing some EU laws, stepping away from some EU projects, tax cuts that were hitherto forbidden, institutional changes away from harmonised administration across the bloc etc. Some want all of those, some just some. A 'not-proper' leaver may speak through gritted teeth about 'the opportunities of Brexit' but will oppose any moves like those above that would make hiccoughs on the road to rejoining. That's why it is difficult to call Sunak or Gove 'proper leavers' at this time.
Claiming Gove is not a proper leaver just because he wants to try and make things work rather than Johnson and Rees Mogg's bull in a china shop approach is just plain dumb. He is one of the few Ministers who actually tried to start doing something positive around post Brexit reforms, particularly at DEFRA. The idea that the only 'pure and proper' Brexit is one that sweeps away every last vestige of EU law in as short a time as possible is really, really stupid.
I agree with you. I think it goes back to how the Mail were being so weird in how they covered the story. It’s not just the bull in a China shop Brexit that will satisfy all leave voters, to use your phrase, but it is the only Brexit that will satisfy the bull in the China shop brexiteers. Hence they build the story around Frosty the noman saying his Brexit deal is not a failure, it was never properly implemented is the failure. That’s the story the mail is pushing.
The actual story is leading brexiteers and remainers are talking to each other about next steps. Don’t get me wrong, we will probably never be in EU ever again to the extent we were - but the reason for Gove and Mandleson in a next steps seminar together is because the bull in the China shop Brexit favoured by the mail is dead, it was never going to deliver, it’s going to be consigned to the dustbin forever, because they only had the one chance to make bull in China shop Brexit work, they failed, and they will never have the power for a bull in a China shop Brexit ever again, that moment has sailed.
Hence the next steps seminar. The country moves on.
Lord Frost is very critical of his own deal, which he blames on the lack of leverage because the country wasn't able to leave without a deal.
That's not what he was saying 3 years ago:
"The UK’s chief negotiator has said the government is not scared of walking away from talks with the European Union without a deal and vowed not to blink in the final phase.
David Frost is due to hold another round of key negotiations in London with his counterpart, Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief negotiator, next week as they look to agree a trade deal before autumn sets in. In a bullish interview with the Mail on Sunday (MoS), Lord Frost said the UK was preparing to leave the transition period “come what may” – even if that meant exiting with no deal, which officials have dubbed an “Australian-style” arrangement."
“The Pentagon is yet to recover debris from the three UFOs shot down this weekend over Alaska, Canada and Michigan and is yet to offer any kind of explanation as to what they are, how they were able to fly, or whether they pose a genuine threat to America.”
...so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.
The White House however has just said "there is no evidence of aliens or extra terrestrial activity".
“so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.“
The Mail’s front page today shows how badly they are losing it. That arch remainers will meet in a country house and go through a PowerPoint slide pack is not a news story - that arch brexiteers like Gove joined them is a news story, but not the angle the mail is reporting on - arch remainers plot against Brexit is how they splashing it you have to read down to find the incendiary facts Gove and other leader brexiteers were there. 😆
Brexit has really gone super-exclusive if Gove is no longer deemed a 'proper' Leaver.
Proper Leaverdom is very loosely correlated with reality. Remainer Truss is a Proper Leaver, passionate leaver Sunak is not.
I don't think we need such abstract concepts as personality/'connection to reality' (as defined by remainers naturally) to judge 'proper' leaverdom. Proper leavers wish us to use the flexibility afforded by Brexit for the benefit of the UK. That may involve actually repealing some EU laws, stepping away from some EU projects, tax cuts that were hitherto forbidden, institutional changes away from harmonised administration across the bloc etc. Some want all of those, some just some. A 'not-proper' leaver may speak through gritted teeth about 'the opportunities of Brexit' but will oppose any moves like those above that would make hiccoughs on the road to rejoining. That's why it is difficult to call Sunak or Gove 'proper leavers' at this time.
Claiming Gove is not a proper leaver just because he wants to try and make things work rather than Johnson and Rees Mogg's bull in a china shop approach is just plain dumb. He is one of the few Ministers who actually tried to start doing something positive around post Brexit reforms, particularly at DEFRA. The idea that the only 'pure and proper' Brexit is one that sweeps away every last vestige of EU law in as short a time as possible is really, really stupid.
I agree with you. I think it goes back to how the Mail were being so weird in how they covered the story. It’s not just the bull in a China shop Brexit that will satisfy all leave voters, to use your phrase, but it is the only Brexit that will satisfy the bull in the China shop brexiteers. Hence they build the story around Frosty the noman saying his Brexit deal is not a failure, it was never properly implemented is the failure. That’s the story the mail is pushing.
The actual story is leading brexiteers and remainers are talking to each other about next steps. Don’t get me wrong, we will probably never be in EU ever again to the extent we were - but the reason for Gove and Mandleson in a next steps seminar together is because the bull in the China shop Brexit favoured by the mail is dead, it was never going to deliver, it’s going to be consigned to the dustbin forever, because they only had the one chance to make bull in China shop Brexit work, they failed, and they will never have the power for a bull in a China shop Brexit ever again, that moment has sailed.
Hence the next steps seminar. The country moves on.
I can't find any element of this that reflects reality. Lord Frost is very critical of his own deal, which he blames on the lack of leverage because the country wasn't able to leave without a deal.
JRM's Retained EU law bill is actually quite carefully considered, and I cannot see any evidence for the sort of legal vacuum scenario that Richard mentions within the way the bill is planned. We have left the EU, why would we remain subject to EU law, and why would that law remain superior to parliamentary statute? That's not an extreme version of Brexit, it's the basic version as expected and understood by everyone on both sides of the Brexit debate.
Gove has undoubted merits, but has always been a slimy toad. It is zero surprise that nobody trusts him on Brexit - it would be daft to trust him with a sharp pair of scissors.
Gove is about the only one I would trust out of the lot of them. He at least puts the work in and listens to people. Slimy toad fits Johnson and Sunak much better as a description.
Countess Felicity Cunliffe Lister, who lives in a castle, gains a North Yorkshire County Council seat for the Liberal Democrats from the Conservatives.
Further proof the LDs are now the posh party, not the Tories
“The Pentagon is yet to recover debris from the three UFOs shot down this weekend over Alaska, Canada and Michigan and is yet to offer any kind of explanation as to what they are, how they were able to fly, or whether they pose a genuine threat to America.”
...so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.
The White House however has just said "there is no evidence of aliens or extra terrestrial activity".
“so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.“
The Mail’s front page today shows how badly they are losing it. That arch remainers will meet in a country house and go through a PowerPoint slide pack is not a news story - that arch brexiteers like Gove joined them is a news story, but not the angle the mail is reporting on - arch remainers plot against Brexit is how they splashing it you have to read down to find the incendiary facts Gove and other leader brexiteers were there. 😆
Brexit has really gone super-exclusive if Gove is no longer deemed a 'proper' Leaver.
Proper Leaverdom is very loosely correlated with reality. Remainer Truss is a Proper Leaver, passionate leaver Sunak is not.
I don't think we need such abstract concepts as personality/'connection to reality' (as defined by remainers naturally) to judge 'proper' leaverdom. Proper leavers wish us to use the flexibility afforded by Brexit for the benefit of the UK. That may involve actually repealing some EU laws, stepping away from some EU projects, tax cuts that were hitherto forbidden, institutional changes away from harmonised administration across the bloc etc. Some want all of those, some just some. A 'not-proper' leaver may speak through gritted teeth about 'the opportunities of Brexit' but will oppose any moves like those above that would make hiccoughs on the road to rejoining. That's why it is difficult to call Sunak or Gove 'proper leavers' at this time.
Claiming Gove is not a proper leaver just because he wants to try and make things work rather than Johnson and Rees Mogg's bull in a china shop approach is just plain dumb. He is one of the few Ministers who actually tried to start doing something positive around post Brexit reforms, particularly at DEFRA. The idea that the only 'pure and proper' Brexit is one that sweeps away every last vestige of EU law in as short a time as possible is really, really stupid.
I agree with you. I think it goes back to how the Mail were being so weird in how they covered the story. It’s not just the bull in a China shop Brexit that will satisfy all leave voters, to use your phrase, but it is the only Brexit that will satisfy the bull in the China shop brexiteers. Hence they build the story around Frosty the noman saying his Brexit deal is not a failure, it was never properly implemented is the failure. That’s the story the mail is pushing.
The actual story is leading brexiteers and remainers are talking to each other about next steps. Don’t get me wrong, we will probably never be in EU ever again to the extent we were - but the reason for Gove and Mandleson in a next steps seminar together is because the bull in the China shop Brexit favoured by the mail is dead, it was never going to deliver, it’s going to be consigned to the dustbin forever, because they only had the one chance to make bull in China shop Brexit work, they failed, and they will never have the power for a bull in a China shop Brexit ever again, that moment has sailed.
Hence the next steps seminar. The country moves on.
I can't find any element of this that reflects reality. Lord Frost is very critical of his own deal, which he blames on the lack of leverage because the country wasn't able to leave without a deal.
JRM's Retained EU law bill is actually quite carefully considered, and I cannot see any evidence for the sort of legal vacuum scenario that Richard mentions within the way the bill is planned. We have left the EU, why would we remain subject to EU law, and why would that law remain superior to parliamentary statute? That's not an extreme version of Brexit, it's the basic version as expected and understood by everyone on both sides of the Brexit debate.
Gove has undoubted merits, but has always been a slimy toad. It is zero surprise that nobody trusts him on Brexit - it would be daft to trust him with a sharp pair of scissors.
Ireland slipped into a bloody civil war over wether to accept a deal or not. Michael Collins led the yes to the deal faction. The labour movement split over Europe, Lord Jenkins led a labour MP faction voting for Europe membership in a crucial vote Tory Primeminister would have lost if they hadn’t. That faction become the SDP whilst Labour put Brexit into its election manifesto.
What do I mean? Sometime during the next parliament Gove leads a faction of Tory MPs into the Labour Government lobby in a big vote on tweaking the existing Brexit deal. The Tories become split and bloody civil war over it.
Anyone who thinks day after the next GE the cleansing is over and it’s all uphill for the Tories is utterly deluded.
You'll be relieved to learn that I have managed to plough through one of your medium length essays. To be fair there were a few points I couldn't disagree with. But don't you think the Conservatives are like cockroaches and they will survive Armageddon?
You are the michevious and naughtiest poster here. You might well be Michael Gove.
And stop your relentless teasing of HY, hallelujah indeed. 😠
Wash your mouth out! I have never indulged in marching powder or Aberdonian gay nightclubs (although I did accidentally wind up in a club called Guys in Coventry in 1982).
“The Pentagon is yet to recover debris from the three UFOs shot down this weekend over Alaska, Canada and Michigan and is yet to offer any kind of explanation as to what they are, how they were able to fly, or whether they pose a genuine threat to America.”
...so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.
The White House however has just said "there is no evidence of aliens or extra terrestrial activity".
“so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.“
The Mail’s front page today shows how badly they are losing it. That arch remainers will meet in a country house and go through a PowerPoint slide pack is not a news story - that arch brexiteers like Gove joined them is a news story, but not the angle the mail is reporting on - arch remainers plot against Brexit is how they splashing it you have to read down to find the incendiary facts Gove and other leader brexiteers were there. 😆
Brexit has really gone super-exclusive if Gove is no longer deemed a 'proper' Leaver.
Proper Leaverdom is very loosely correlated with reality. Remainer Truss is a Proper Leaver, passionate leaver Sunak is not.
I don't think we need such abstract concepts as personality/'connection to reality' (as defined by remainers naturally) to judge 'proper' leaverdom. Proper leavers wish us to use the flexibility afforded by Brexit for the benefit of the UK. That may involve actually repealing some EU laws, stepping away from some EU projects, tax cuts that were hitherto forbidden, institutional changes away from harmonised administration across the bloc etc. Some want all of those, some just some. A 'not-proper' leaver may speak through gritted teeth about 'the opportunities of Brexit' but will oppose any moves like those above that would make hiccoughs on the road to rejoining. That's why it is difficult to call Sunak or Gove 'proper leavers' at this time.
Claiming Gove is not a proper leaver just because he wants to try and make things work rather than Johnson and Rees Mogg's bull in a china shop approach is just plain dumb. He is one of the few Ministers who actually tried to start doing something positive around post Brexit reforms, particularly at DEFRA. The idea that the only 'pure and proper' Brexit is one that sweeps away every last vestige of EU law in as short a time as possible is really, really stupid.
I agree with you. I think it goes back to how the Mail were being so weird in how they covered the story. It’s not just the bull in a China shop Brexit that will satisfy all leave voters, to use your phrase, but it is the only Brexit that will satisfy the bull in the China shop brexiteers. Hence they build the story around Frosty the noman saying his Brexit deal is not a failure, it was never properly implemented is the failure. That’s the story the mail is pushing.
The actual story is leading brexiteers and remainers are talking to each other about next steps. Don’t get me wrong, we will probably never be in EU ever again to the extent we were - but the reason for Gove and Mandleson in a next steps seminar together is because the bull in the China shop Brexit favoured by the mail is dead, it was never going to deliver, it’s going to be consigned to the dustbin forever, because they only had the one chance to make bull in China shop Brexit work, they failed, and they will never have the power for a bull in a China shop Brexit ever again, that moment has sailed.
Hence the next steps seminar. The country moves on.
I can't find any element of this that reflects reality. Lord Frost is very critical of his own deal, which he blames on the lack of leverage because the country wasn't able to leave without a deal.
JRM's Retained EU law bill is actually quite carefully considered, and I cannot see any evidence for the sort of legal vacuum scenario that Richard mentions within the way the bill is planned. We have left the EU, why would we remain subject to EU law, and why would that law remain superior to parliamentary statute? That's not an extreme version of Brexit, it's the basic version as expected and understood by everyone on both sides of the Brexit debate.
Gove has undoubted merits, but has always been a slimy toad. It is zero surprise that nobody trusts him on Brexit - it would be daft to trust him with a sharp pair of scissors.
I’m helping a client at the moment who’s considering making business acquisitions. I can’t advise him whether or not he’ll be taking on the employees of said businesses because I don’t know whether TUPE will apply this time next year. Neither can I advise, if TUPE goes, what happens to employees on a business transfer instead of it. The law doesn’t say. Oh, and if he does take them on, I can’t advise whether his new employees will be entitled to any holiday.
There’s your legal vacuum, genius.
You can advise him that it will apply, because it will be incorporated automatically into UK law, unless the Government decides to introduce specific reforms, which incidentally is also true of any other law. My invoice is in the post.
I'd be tossing around 'genius' a bit less if I had totally embarrassed myself on tax the way you did earlier, but hey, you do you.
I asked you a question FFS.
It’s already incorporated into U.K. law, genius. This bill takes it out. You have no idea how this bill works. None at all. Your claims about it are just legally wrong. If the Government decide to sunset TUPE, what happens on a business transfer without it? I’m keen to know as I have an Employment Lawyers Association meeting on it next week and at the last one two KCs couldn’t tell me. But I’m sure your genius can elucidate. You are clearly a legal seer. Genius indeed.
“The Pentagon is yet to recover debris from the three UFOs shot down this weekend over Alaska, Canada and Michigan and is yet to offer any kind of explanation as to what they are, how they were able to fly, or whether they pose a genuine threat to America.”
...so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.
The White House however has just said "there is no evidence of aliens or extra terrestrial activity".
“so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.“
The Mail’s front page today shows how badly they are losing it. That arch remainers will meet in a country house and go through a PowerPoint slide pack is not a news story - that arch brexiteers like Gove joined them is a news story, but not the angle the mail is reporting on - arch remainers plot against Brexit is how they splashing it you have to read down to find the incendiary facts Gove and other leader brexiteers were there. 😆
Brexit has really gone super-exclusive if Gove is no longer deemed a 'proper' Leaver.
Proper Leaverdom is very loosely correlated with reality. Remainer Truss is a Proper Leaver, passionate leaver Sunak is not.
I don't think we need such abstract concepts as personality/'connection to reality' (as defined by remainers naturally) to judge 'proper' leaverdom. Proper leavers wish us to use the flexibility afforded by Brexit for the benefit of the UK. That may involve actually repealing some EU laws, stepping away from some EU projects, tax cuts that were hitherto forbidden, institutional changes away from harmonised administration across the bloc etc. Some want all of those, some just some. A 'not-proper' leaver may speak through gritted teeth about 'the opportunities of Brexit' but will oppose any moves like those above that would make hiccoughs on the road to rejoining. That's why it is difficult to call Sunak or Gove 'proper leavers' at this time.
Claiming Gove is not a proper leaver just because he wants to try and make things work rather than Johnson and Rees Mogg's bull in a china shop approach is just plain dumb. He is one of the few Ministers who actually tried to start doing something positive around post Brexit reforms, particularly at DEFRA. The idea that the only 'pure and proper' Brexit is one that sweeps away every last vestige of EU law in as short a time as possible is really, really stupid.
I agree with you. I think it goes back to how the Mail were being so weird in how they covered the story. It’s not just the bull in a China shop Brexit that will satisfy all leave voters, to use your phrase, but it is the only Brexit that will satisfy the bull in the China shop brexiteers. Hence they build the story around Frosty the noman saying his Brexit deal is not a failure, it was never properly implemented is the failure. That’s the story the mail is pushing.
The actual story is leading brexiteers and remainers are talking to each other about next steps. Don’t get me wrong, we will probably never be in EU ever again to the extent we were - but the reason for Gove and Mandleson in a next steps seminar together is because the bull in the China shop Brexit favoured by the mail is dead, it was never going to deliver, it’s going to be consigned to the dustbin forever, because they only had the one chance to make bull in China shop Brexit work, they failed, and they will never have the power for a bull in a China shop Brexit ever again, that moment has sailed.
Hence the next steps seminar. The country moves on.
Lord Frost is very critical of his own deal, which he blames on the lack of leverage because the country wasn't able to leave without a deal.
That's not what he was saying 3 years ago:
"The UK’s chief negotiator has said the government is not scared of walking away from talks with the European Union without a deal and vowed not to blink in the final phase.
David Frost is due to hold another round of key negotiations in London with his counterpart, Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief negotiator, next week as they look to agree a trade deal before autumn sets in.
In a bullish interview with the Mail on Sunday (MoS), Lord Frost said the UK was preparing to leave the transition period “come what may” – even if that meant exiting with no deal, which officials have dubbed an “Australian-style” arrangement."
No, it wasn't, quite on purpose. It was bluff and bluster. He has said of those staements that they tried, but the EU saw right through it. May and Hammond had not funded no deal prep.
“The Pentagon is yet to recover debris from the three UFOs shot down this weekend over Alaska, Canada and Michigan and is yet to offer any kind of explanation as to what they are, how they were able to fly, or whether they pose a genuine threat to America.”
...so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.
The White House however has just said "there is no evidence of aliens or extra terrestrial activity".
“so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.“
The Mail’s front page today shows how badly they are losing it. That arch remainers will meet in a country house and go through a PowerPoint slide pack is not a news story - that arch brexiteers like Gove joined them is a news story, but not the angle the mail is reporting on - arch remainers plot against Brexit is how they splashing it you have to read down to find the incendiary facts Gove and other leader brexiteers were there. 😆
Brexit has really gone super-exclusive if Gove is no longer deemed a 'proper' Leaver.
Proper Leaverdom is very loosely correlated with reality. Remainer Truss is a Proper Leaver, passionate leaver Sunak is not.
I don't think we need such abstract concepts as personality/'connection to reality' (as defined by remainers naturally) to judge 'proper' leaverdom. Proper leavers wish us to use the flexibility afforded by Brexit for the benefit of the UK. That may involve actually repealing some EU laws, stepping away from some EU projects, tax cuts that were hitherto forbidden, institutional changes away from harmonised administration across the bloc etc. Some want all of those, some just some. A 'not-proper' leaver may speak through gritted teeth about 'the opportunities of Brexit' but will oppose any moves like those above that would make hiccoughs on the road to rejoining. That's why it is difficult to call Sunak or Gove 'proper leavers' at this time.
Claiming Gove is not a proper leaver just because he wants to try and make things work rather than Johnson and Rees Mogg's bull in a china shop approach is just plain dumb. He is one of the few Ministers who actually tried to start doing something positive around post Brexit reforms, particularly at DEFRA. The idea that the only 'pure and proper' Brexit is one that sweeps away every last vestige of EU law in as short a time as possible is really, really stupid.
I agree with you. I think it goes back to how the Mail were being so weird in how they covered the story. It’s not just the bull in a China shop Brexit that will satisfy all leave voters, to use your phrase, but it is the only Brexit that will satisfy the bull in the China shop brexiteers. Hence they build the story around Frosty the noman saying his Brexit deal is not a failure, it was never properly implemented is the failure. That’s the story the mail is pushing.
The actual story is leading brexiteers and remainers are talking to each other about next steps. Don’t get me wrong, we will probably never be in EU ever again to the extent we were - but the reason for Gove and Mandleson in a next steps seminar together is because the bull in the China shop Brexit favoured by the mail is dead, it was never going to deliver, it’s going to be consigned to the dustbin forever, because they only had the one chance to make bull in China shop Brexit work, they failed, and they will never have the power for a bull in a China shop Brexit ever again, that moment has sailed.
Hence the next steps seminar. The country moves on.
I can't find any element of this that reflects reality. Lord Frost is very critical of his own deal, which he blames on the lack of leverage because the country wasn't able to leave without a deal.
JRM's Retained EU law bill is actually quite carefully considered, and I cannot see any evidence for the sort of legal vacuum scenario that Richard mentions within the way the bill is planned. We have left the EU, why would we remain subject to EU law, and why would that law remain superior to parliamentary statute? That's not an extreme version of Brexit, it's the basic version as expected and understood by everyone on both sides of the Brexit debate.
Gove has undoubted merits, but has always been a slimy toad. It is zero surprise that nobody trusts him on Brexit - it would be daft to trust him with a sharp pair of scissors.
Gove is about the only one I would trust out of the lot of them. He at least puts the work in and listens to people. Slimy toad fits Johnson and Sunak much better as a description.
Two different sorts of trust.
I wouldn't trust Johnson or JRM in the same way I wouldn't trust certain "special" classes with scissors- they wouldn't know what they were doing and a mess is almost inevitable. (See the retained laws bill; switching off 4000(?) laws in just over 10 months time is a fiasco waiting to happen.)
Gove is smart and technically competent; I get the impression he learned a lot from his failures at Education. But even now, I would wonder whose back the scissor blades would end up in...
Countess Felicity Cunliffe Lister, who lives in a castle, gains a North Yorkshire County Council seat for the Liberal Democrats from the Conservatives.
Further proof the LDs are now the posh party, not the Tories
“The Pentagon is yet to recover debris from the three UFOs shot down this weekend over Alaska, Canada and Michigan and is yet to offer any kind of explanation as to what they are, how they were able to fly, or whether they pose a genuine threat to America.”
...so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.
The White House however has just said "there is no evidence of aliens or extra terrestrial activity".
“so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.“
The Mail’s front page today shows how badly they are losing it. That arch remainers will meet in a country house and go through a PowerPoint slide pack is not a news story - that arch brexiteers like Gove joined them is a news story, but not the angle the mail is reporting on - arch remainers plot against Brexit is how they splashing it you have to read down to find the incendiary facts Gove and other leader brexiteers were there. 😆
Brexit has really gone super-exclusive if Gove is no longer deemed a 'proper' Leaver.
Proper Leaverdom is very loosely correlated with reality. Remainer Truss is a Proper Leaver, passionate leaver Sunak is not.
I don't think we need such abstract concepts as personality/'connection to reality' (as defined by remainers naturally) to judge 'proper' leaverdom. Proper leavers wish us to use the flexibility afforded by Brexit for the benefit of the UK. That may involve actually repealing some EU laws, stepping away from some EU projects, tax cuts that were hitherto forbidden, institutional changes away from harmonised administration across the bloc etc. Some want all of those, some just some. A 'not-proper' leaver may speak through gritted teeth about 'the opportunities of Brexit' but will oppose any moves like those above that would make hiccoughs on the road to rejoining. That's why it is difficult to call Sunak or Gove 'proper leavers' at this time.
Claiming Gove is not a proper leaver just because he wants to try and make things work rather than Johnson and Rees Mogg's bull in a china shop approach is just plain dumb. He is one of the few Ministers who actually tried to start doing something positive around post Brexit reforms, particularly at DEFRA. The idea that the only 'pure and proper' Brexit is one that sweeps away every last vestige of EU law in as short a time as possible is really, really stupid.
I agree with you. I think it goes back to how the Mail were being so weird in how they covered the story. It’s not just the bull in a China shop Brexit that will satisfy all leave voters, to use your phrase, but it is the only Brexit that will satisfy the bull in the China shop brexiteers. Hence they build the story around Frosty the noman saying his Brexit deal is not a failure, it was never properly implemented is the failure. That’s the story the mail is pushing.
The actual story is leading brexiteers and remainers are talking to each other about next steps. Don’t get me wrong, we will probably never be in EU ever again to the extent we were - but the reason for Gove and Mandleson in a next steps seminar together is because the bull in the China shop Brexit favoured by the mail is dead, it was never going to deliver, it’s going to be consigned to the dustbin forever, because they only had the one chance to make bull in China shop Brexit work, they failed, and they will never have the power for a bull in a China shop Brexit ever again, that moment has sailed.
Hence the next steps seminar. The country moves on.
Lord Frost is very critical of his own deal, which he blames on the lack of leverage because the country wasn't able to leave without a deal.
That's not what he was saying 3 years ago:
"The UK’s chief negotiator has said the government is not scared of walking away from talks with the European Union without a deal and vowed not to blink in the final phase.
David Frost is due to hold another round of key negotiations in London with his counterpart, Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief negotiator, next week as they look to agree a trade deal before autumn sets in. In a bullish interview with the Mail on Sunday (MoS), Lord Frost said the UK was preparing to leave the transition period “come what may” – even if that meant exiting with no deal, which officials have dubbed an “Australian-style” arrangement."
He and Boris pilloried May for being unwilling to no deal and instead put up with a bad deal, yet they both now seem to be admitting they felt the same way, which makes their agitating against her particularly shameless (especially as Boris for one was willing to vote for her in the end).
Watching the Ukraine thing on BBC2 in my Lisburn hotel room. Very good except Boris Johnson is being an incredibly theatrical name dropper.
All the contributors, May, Barwell, Spreadsheet, Wallace etc. are considered and rather sanguine. Johnson is just full of s***!
Surely not!
If it wasn't Johnson it was a very authentic mincing thespian. It might have been McKellen or the ghost of Olivier playing Boris Johnson. It was an almost Shakespearian performance.
“The Pentagon is yet to recover debris from the three UFOs shot down this weekend over Alaska, Canada and Michigan and is yet to offer any kind of explanation as to what they are, how they were able to fly, or whether they pose a genuine threat to America.”
...so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.
The White House however has just said "there is no evidence of aliens or extra terrestrial activity".
“so says that authoritative source the Daily Mail.“
The Mail’s front page today shows how badly they are losing it. That arch remainers will meet in a country house and go through a PowerPoint slide pack is not a news story - that arch brexiteers like Gove joined them is a news story, but not the angle the mail is reporting on - arch remainers plot against Brexit is how they splashing it you have to read down to find the incendiary facts Gove and other leader brexiteers were there. 😆
Brexit has really gone super-exclusive if Gove is no longer deemed a 'proper' Leaver.
Proper Leaverdom is very loosely correlated with reality. Remainer Truss is a Proper Leaver, passionate leaver Sunak is not.
I don't think we need such abstract concepts as personality/'connection to reality' (as defined by remainers naturally) to judge 'proper' leaverdom. Proper leavers wish us to use the flexibility afforded by Brexit for the benefit of the UK. That may involve actually repealing some EU laws, stepping away from some EU projects, tax cuts that were hitherto forbidden, institutional changes away from harmonised administration across the bloc etc. Some want all of those, some just some. A 'not-proper' leaver may speak through gritted teeth about 'the opportunities of Brexit' but will oppose any moves like those above that would make hiccoughs on the road to rejoining. That's why it is difficult to call Sunak or Gove 'proper leavers' at this time.
Claiming Gove is not a proper leaver just because he wants to try and make things work rather than Johnson and Rees Mogg's bull in a china shop approach is just plain dumb. He is one of the few Ministers who actually tried to start doing something positive around post Brexit reforms, particularly at DEFRA. The idea that the only 'pure and proper' Brexit is one that sweeps away every last vestige of EU law in as short a time as possible is really, really stupid.
I agree with you. I think it goes back to how the Mail were being so weird in how they covered the story. It’s not just the bull in a China shop Brexit that will satisfy all leave voters, to use your phrase, but it is the only Brexit that will satisfy the bull in the China shop brexiteers. Hence they build the story around Frosty the noman saying his Brexit deal is not a failure, it was never properly implemented is the failure. That’s the story the mail is pushing.
The actual story is leading brexiteers and remainers are talking to each other about next steps. Don’t get me wrong, we will probably never be in EU ever again to the extent we were - but the reason for Gove and Mandleson in a next steps seminar together is because the bull in the China shop Brexit favoured by the mail is dead, it was never going to deliver, it’s going to be consigned to the dustbin forever, because they only had the one chance to make bull in China shop Brexit work, they failed, and they will never have the power for a bull in a China shop Brexit ever again, that moment has sailed.
Hence the next steps seminar. The country moves on.
I can't find any element of this that reflects reality. Lord Frost is very critical of his own deal, which he blames on the lack of leverage because the country wasn't able to leave without a deal.
JRM's Retained EU law bill is actually quite carefully considered, and I cannot see any evidence for the sort of legal vacuum scenario that Richard mentions within the way the bill is planned. We have left the EU, why would we remain subject to EU law, and why would that law remain superior to parliamentary statute? That's not an extreme version of Brexit, it's the basic version as expected and understood by everyone on both sides of the Brexit debate.
Gove has undoubted merits, but has always been a slimy toad. It is zero surprise that nobody trusts him on Brexit - it would be daft to trust him with a sharp pair of scissors.
Gove is about the only one I would trust out of the lot of them. He at least puts the work in and listens to people. Slimy toad fits Johnson and Sunak much better as a description.
Two different sorts of trust.
I wouldn't trust Johnson or JRM in the same way I wouldn't trust certain "special" classes with scissors- they wouldn't know what they were doing and a mess is almost inevitable. (See the retained laws bill; switching off 4000(?) laws in just over 10 months time is a fiasco waiting to happen.)
Gove is smart and technically competent; I get the impression he learned a lot from his failures at Education. But even now, I would wonder whose back the scissor blades would end up in...
The first is the one that matters. The second is just normal politics.
This looks bad. Footage on the ground from East Palestine, Ohio (February 10, 2023) following the controlled burn of the extremely hazardous chemical Vinyl Chloride that spilled during a train derailment (volume warning) https://twitter.com/more_shower/status/1624937676292907008
Ohio: Dead fish and cattle being reported as far as 100 miles away from the site.
Journalists covering the story have been arrested.
Some perspective is good, and the tweet I posted does look alarmist - but it doesn’t sound great. And I’d be rather more cautious about the toxic products of the fire, since the train would have been carrying other chemicals.
Comments
I really enjoyed the Uplift series, and its vision of a billion year old galactic culture as basically a conservative bureacratic nightmare, with the occasional plodding drift into genocidal conflict before settling back down to inertia again.
Plus it was just funny that earth developed 'Danikenite' media and politics, as it turned out (for the rest of the galaxy at the least) that aliens messing with lower cultures was in fact totally correct.
Thus John Crossan:
"There is an oft-repeated and rather cheap gibe that historical Jesus researchers are simply looking down a deep well and seeing their own reflections from below. I call it cheap because those who use it against others seldom apply it to themselves. Second, it is almost impossible to imagine a reconstruction that could not be dismissed by the assertion of that gibe...What could anyone ever say that would not fall under that ban?" (The Birth of Christianity, p 41)
https://www.restoretrust.org.uk
All has to be read in the context of its time - but as Foxy suggests, it’s hardly impossible to intuit or understand the principles behind Jesus’s recorded teachings which might be more universally applicable.
Trouble up road 🤭
For what it's worth, I think this animates the activists and the friendly media to rally the troops a bit. He's thinking of the votes of the Sean Thomas's of this world, not the orange bookers.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/joe-biden/white-house-offers-answers-unidentified-objects-shotdown-rcna70316
Now the White House — under fire for a lack of transparency over the incursions — must contend with frustrated lawmakers and a mystified public, amid the Biden administration’s failure to launch a coherent communications strategy about the shootdowns.
“In times of uncertainty, leaders need to be as transparent as possible with the public,” Larry Hogan, the former Republican governor from Maryland, tweeted Monday. “After shooting down three airborne objects, President Biden needs to communicate directly with the nation about what we know and what we don’t.”
But Film making is genuinely universal and the UK were sitting on the top of the pile. It is not unusual to be shooting for an American client selling a Spanish product shooting in Paris using a British production company German special effects and French /British /German crew. Make it more difficult and we lose an advantage that has taken us years to build up.
I should resist the temptation to go through the CVs of Anglican bishops, but I will note that Stephen Cottrell went to a secondary modern and a polytechnic.
As I said the rich, high earning posh will only tend to vote Tory v Labour now, otherwise they will vote LD
Once, that drove such votes overwhelmingly in a Conservative direction. Nowadays, it can be Labour in north London and the intellectual mets, LD in the posh and very high earning suburbs and spa towns, and still Conservative for the hunting and shooting set in the rural Shires.
No 10 knows only too well that their new policy to be unveiled soon to tackle the Channel crossings has been designed to fail and to end up in the ECHR where the so called “ evil European judges “ will block certain aspects .
The current Tories have nothing to offer this country other than hate and division , they offer nothing to younger people and only care about pandering to the elderly .
Guy Hands firm challenges MoD over controversial £8bn property estate
Annington Property launches judicial review arguing ministry does not have right to take back houses after ‘disastrous’ sell-off
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/feb/13/guy-hands-firm-challenges-mod-over-controversial-8bn-property-estate
A property company controlled by the private equity tycoon Guy Hands has started a court battle to block the reversal of the highly controversial privatisation of thousands of military homes now worth as much as £8bn.
Annington Property launched a judicial review on Monday in London’s high court, arguing that the Ministry of Defence does not have the right to take back ownership of the properties because the company has not consented and the state was exercising its power improperly. Annington is owned by Terra Firma, the private equity firm run by Hands.…
… In 1996, the Conservative government sold 57,400 houses used by military servicemen and women and their families to Annington Homes for £1.7bn in a sale and leaseback deal. Under the deal, the MoD paid rent and agreed to maintain the properties. Annington became the UK’s biggest residential property owner, and became entitled to annual rent now worth £178m.
However, the sale is widely regarded as a mistake. The value of British housing has soared since the deal was completed, and the Annington estate is valued at as much as £8bn.
In 2018 a cross-party group of MPs on the public accounts committee described the sell-off as “disastrous for taxpayers, offering no protection against the private sector making excessive gains at the taxpayer’s expense”. The government missed out on as much as £4.2bn in asset price increases, the MPs said.
According to the defence secretary, Lloyd Austin, just now : "We still don't know what the three objects shot are. No debris has been recovered." They clearly still have no clue either way, but the White House staff have been told to be reassuring.
Unless they can prove that there was fraud on the part of the purchaser or criminal negligence on the part of the vendor's agents I think this MoD is going to lose this one.
*Unless the next person is @MaxPB of course.
He would have voted Remain in 2016, then LD in 2017 and 2019.
He might now vote for Starmer though
https://youtu.be/sg-4ATrE8n0?t=166
(in fairness the town as a whole elected 18 LDs out of 20. And the two others were independents).
Naturally, given the amounts of cash at stake, the lawyers are going to get involved, but this doesn’t seem to be a slam dunk one sided case to me? It sounds from the Guardian reporting as if Hands is moaning that the plan to re-purchase the properties prevented him selling out at the top of the market because the buyers got wind of the government’s plans. So now he has to sell out to the government at current valuations.
Hands wants to have his cake & eat it it seems to me.
The first is the antithesis of left wing beliefs (unless you're the USSR).
The second - well, you could say that's very left wing behaviour, actually.
the heartland USA
Not to imply anything improper, but it’s an illustration of the cozy world at the top of UK society that Hands was a close friend of Hague at Oxford.
They should never have signed that contract and he's laughing all the way to the bank. But they did.
The only faint positive might be if they finally use the same logic to move against the even more ghastly PFI Ponzi scheme.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2023/03/france-tocqueville-democracy-race-le-wokisme/672775/?utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share
The conclusion:
"America and France are simultaneously becoming weaker, less capable, each undermined by growing internal divisions—the one by overemphasizing them, the other by denying them altogether."
But then I also used this Lib Dem beating Tories just a few country miles from home to wind mum and dad up in a FaceTime yesterday… but they weren’t at all in the mood 🤭
But recently I have been bothered because he never answered the puzzle he raised in "Startide Rising". As I told a friend recently, partly because of that, I found the last three books in the series "less than the sum of their parts". Many good bits and characters, but they don't finally add up to a satisfying whole.
(But, perhaps I am just too picky, since I have a similar problem with Sheffield's Heritage series: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Sheffield )
Never heard of Heritage, will have to check it out, the write up reminds me a bit of Jack McDevitt's Academy series, where when man reaches the stars he (mostly) finds others have come and gone already, making it like space archaeology.
KC3 could as easily be a Cameroon as a Green.
The main criticism against Sir Keir Starmer is that he, too, lacks clarity. “I just don’t know what he stands for,” people will say. Labour, though, has it easy. They’re the anti-Tory party. The Conservatives have been in power for more than a decade, the country is a mess — this has clout. Precisely because of Starmer’s careful triangulation, the reverse doesn’t work. What’s to fear? A tiny bit more scepticism about Brexit? A tiny bit less about transgender bathrooms? It’s not enough. Fans sometimes hail Starmer as the new Tony Blair, but perhaps he’s actually the new David Cameron. There’s no drama here. His whole pitch is simply that he’d be better at the gig than the other lot.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-tories-no-longer-know-what-they-stand-for-2l7xs2sgr
It seems quite likely that if we or alien races ever did get to spread across the Galaxy, Star Trek like, we would likely encounter lots of extinction. For us it feels like we are in a race to develop a sustainable way of living before we destroy ourselves. No guarantee we will succeed either…
https://twitter.com/HelenBranswell/status/1625200219481640985
Watching the Ukraine thing on BBC2 in my Lisburn hotel room. Very good except Boris Johnson is being an incredibly theatrical name dropper.
All the contributors, May, Barwell, Spreadsheet, Wallace etc. are considered and rather sanguine. Johnson is just full of s***!
The actual story is leading brexiteers and remainers are talking to each other about next steps. Don’t get me wrong, we will probably never be in EU ever again to the extent we were - but the reason for Gove and Mandleson in a next steps seminar together is because the bull in the China shop Brexit favoured by the mail is dead, it was never going to deliver, it’s going to be consigned to the dustbin forever, because they only had the one chance to make bull in China shop Brexit work, they failed, and they will never have the power for a bull in a China shop Brexit ever again, that moment has sailed.
Hence the next steps seminar. The country moves on.
Footage on the ground from East Palestine, Ohio (February 10, 2023) following the controlled burn of the extremely hazardous chemical Vinyl Chloride that spilled during a train derailment (volume warning)
https://twitter.com/more_shower/status/1624937676292907008
Ohio: Dead fish and cattle being reported as far as 100 miles away from the site.
Journalists covering the story have been arrested.
What the HELL is going on?
https://twitter.com/realstewpeters/status/1624885466469175298
https://twitter.com/scihoss/status/1625187996223049728
JRM's Retained EU law bill is actually quite carefully considered, and I cannot see any evidence for the sort of legal vacuum scenario that Richard mentions within the way the bill is planned. We have left the EU, why would we remain subject to EU law, and why would that law remain superior to parliamentary statute? That's not an extreme version of Brexit, it's the basic version as expected and understood by everyone on both sides of the Brexit debate.
Gove has undoubted merits, but has always been a slimy toad. It is zero surprise that nobody trusts him on Brexit - it would be daft to trust him with a sharp pair of scissors.
What do I mean? Sometime during the next parliament Gove leads a faction of Tory MPs into the Labour Government lobby in a big vote on tweaking the existing Brexit deal. The Tories become split and bloody civil war over it.
Anyone who thinks day after the next GE the cleansing is over and it’s all uphill for the Tories is utterly deluded.
Princess Diana was New Labour as would the Sussexes be. Camilla would be more Tory than her LD husband.
The Prince and Princess of Wales are basically Cameroon Tories, probably torn between Sunak and Starmer though they wouldn't have voted for Boris or Truss
❤️ Onana btw
The relevant line is this:
Any retained EU law that remains in force after the sunset date will be assimilated in the domestic statute book, by the removal of the special EU law features previously attached to it.
That doesn't seem scary to me. I also don't think a hard deadline is a bad thing, given the supreme lack of activity you correctly identify that we've seen.
There’s your legal vacuum, genius.
Don't forget it was reported that Kate and Baldy blackballed Blair and Brown from attending their wedding.
I agree that we should be transcribing EU laws and getting rid of those we don't need. But that all takes time and a hell of a lot of work, negotiation and debate - much of which should rightly be done by Parliament not by ministers. There is absolutely no need for the artificial deadline., It is pointless and counter productive. Much like JRM himself.
And stop your relentless teasing of HY, hallelujah indeed. 😠
I'd be tossing around 'genius' a bit less if I had totally embarrassed myself on tax the way you did earlier, but hey, you do you.
as being “subject to EU law”.
"The UK’s chief negotiator has said the government is not scared of walking away from talks with the European Union without a deal and vowed not to blink in the final phase.
David Frost is due to hold another round of key negotiations in London with his counterpart, Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief negotiator, next week as they look to agree a trade deal before autumn sets in.
In a bullish interview with the Mail on Sunday (MoS), Lord Frost said the UK was preparing to leave the transition period “come what may” – even if that meant exiting with no deal, which officials have dubbed an “Australian-style” arrangement."
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/06/uks-brexit-negotiator-says-government-is-not-scared-of-no-deal-exit
This is exactly what you get wrong in doing your opinion poll average isn’t it?
It’s already incorporated into U.K. law, genius. This bill takes it out. You have no idea how this bill works. None at all. Your claims about it are just legally wrong. If the Government decide to sunset TUPE, what happens on a business transfer without it? I’m keen to know as I have an Employment Lawyers Association meeting on it next week and at the last one two KCs couldn’t tell me. But I’m sure your genius can elucidate. You are clearly a legal seer. Genius indeed.
I wouldn't trust Johnson or JRM in the same way I wouldn't trust certain "special" classes with scissors- they wouldn't know what they were doing and a mess is almost inevitable. (See the retained laws bill; switching off 4000(?) laws in just over 10 months time is a fiasco waiting to happen.)
Gove is smart and technically competent; I get the impression he learned a lot from his failures at Education. But even now, I would wonder whose back the scissor blades would end up in...