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What we need are Tory by-election defences – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,020
edited February 2023 in General
imageWhat we need are Tory by-election defences – politicalbetting.com

I must say I cannot get at all excited about Labour by-election defences in northern seats which have been held by the party for as long as anyone can remember.

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    Lee Anderson should do a David Davis and call a by-election. As Fraser Nelson says, the Red Wallers adore him and all he stands for, so he couldn't fail to increase his majority. That would be a great morale booster for the British Right and would put the fear of Jesus into Sir Keir and Labour. It is - as I believe today's youth would describe it - a 'no brainer'.
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    The turnout at 31% was shocking. The weather was reasonable yesterday and there were very active get out the vote campaigns. While this is much worse for the Conservatives, SKS doesn't set any pulses racing as Labour vote numbers were down almost 50% compared to 2019.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,994

    The turnout at 31% was shocking. The weather was reasonable yesterday and there were very active get out the vote campaigns. While this is much worse for the Conservatives, SKS doesn't set any pulses racing as Labour vote numbers were down almost 50% compared to 2019.

    That's an important point, and about the only thing I can see that will prevent Starmer from getting a 1997-style victory. He just isn't inspiring.

    Then again, if inspiring gets us Boris Johnson, I'm all for uninspiring ...
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    An Uxbridge & South Ruislip by election would be totes amazeballs.

    Ditto a Esher & Walton by election.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,147
    edited February 2023
    Can’t believe no one is BAXTERING that mad poll from the last thread. Or are we all just used to this craziness now?

    It gives

    Labour: 543
    Tories: 21
    LDs: 15
    SNP: 47

    = SNP official opposition and the Tories destroyed forever

    And we are now less than two years from the last possible GE?
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    Watching the first episode of season 2 of Clarkson's Farm is pretty grim for the Tories, Brexiteers, and Johnson & Gove in particular.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,147
    The Lib Dems are also staring at a REALLY bad general election, when they would normally hope to benefit from Tory travails

    I do not understand their inertia. The tactical move for them is obvious. Come out, loud and proud, as the party of Rejoin the EU immediately (after another referendum). There are enough hardcore Remoaners in southern England and the like to win them quite a few seats, indeed Remoaners tempted by Starmer might vote tactically for the LDs in the hope that they can pressure him towards Rejoin in a hung parliament

    What the F are they playing at? This would also bring them much needed attention

    It is amazing to me that no UK party is going out there swinging for the Rejoin vote, when the polls are clearly showing Brexit remorse
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896
    It might be ‘what we need’, but it’s unlikely to be what we get.
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    Great to have a fiscal Conservative in Number 11.

    Jeremy Hunt has all but ruled out a “major new initiative” to support households with their energy bills from April.

    The chancellor was speaking as ONS figures showed the UK economy narrowly dodged a recession at the end of last year, but growth is expected to remain close to zero in 2023.

    The energy price guarantee, which limits the amount suppliers can charge per unit of energy used, is set to finish at the end of March.

    Labour has called for it to be extended. But the chancellor, asked if he was ruling out more support, said: “We constantly keep the help we can give families under review.

    “But if you’re saying ‘do I think we’re going to have the headroom to make a major new initiative to help people?’ I don’t think the situation would have changed very significantly from the autumn statement, which was just three months ago.”

    While Hunt insisted he “knew just how tough it is for many people dealing with these huge spikes in their energy bills”, he said he needed to be responsible with public finances.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/uk-economy-recession-latest-news-rishi-sunak-dominic-raab-nwlbpkcmx
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896

    Lee Anderson should do a David Davis and call a by-election. As Fraser Nelson says, the Red Wallers adore him and all he stands for, so he couldn't fail to increase his majority. That would be a great morale booster for the British Right and would put the fear of Jesus into Sir Keir and Labour. It is - as I believe today's youth would describe it - a 'no brainer'.

    The commenter yesterday that described Anderson as a Tory John Prescott, got it right.
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    Sandpit said:

    Lee Anderson should do a David Davis and call a by-election. As Fraser Nelson says, the Red Wallers adore him and all he stands for, so he couldn't fail to increase his majority. That would be a great morale booster for the British Right and would put the fear of Jesus into Sir Keir and Labour. It is - as I believe today's youth would describe it - a 'no brainer'.

    The commenter yesterday that described Anderson as a Tory John Prescott, got it right.
    Whoever said that should treat themselves to a chipolata.
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,173
    Sandpit said:

    Lee Anderson should do a David Davis and call a by-election. As Fraser Nelson says, the Red Wallers adore him and all he stands for, so he couldn't fail to increase his majority. That would be a great morale booster for the British Right and would put the fear of Jesus into Sir Keir and Labour. It is - as I believe today's youth would describe it - a 'no brainer'.

    The commenter yesterday that described Anderson as a Tory John Prescott, got it right.
    A grave slur on John Prescott!
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,938
    Sandpit said:

    The commenter yesterday that described Anderson as a Tory John Prescott, got it right.

    So we expect him to lamp someone during the campaign then...
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,173
    BBC WATO celebrating that the UK is not in recession.
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,173
    Leon said:

    Can’t believe no one is BAXTERING that mad poll from the last thread. Or are we all just used to this craziness now?

    It gives

    Labour: 543
    Tories: 21
    LDs: 15
    SNP: 47

    = SNP official opposition and the Tories destroyed forever

    And we are now less than two years from the last possible GE?

    Behave, UNS is HYUFD's friend.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896
    Scott_xP said:

    Sandpit said:

    The commenter yesterday that described Anderson as a Tory John Prescott, got it right.

    So we expect him to lamp someone during the campaign then...
    Possibly - but it to make no difference to the result.
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    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,809
    Random stats:

    In Labour's 3 defences, all of very, very safe seats, during Blair's opposition, Labour achieved swings over Conservatives averaging 3.8%.

    Conservatives lost second place in each election.
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,173

    An Uxbridge & South Ruislip by election would be totes amazeballs.

    Ditto a Esher & Walton by election.

    That could work well for Johnson, hurled out of Uxbridge and dovetailed into Mid Beds just weeks later, with his feet already under the table for the next GE.
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    Hi @Mexicanpete how you keeping mate?
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    StockyStocky Posts: 9,718
    edited February 2023

    The turnout at 31% was shocking. The weather was reasonable yesterday and there were very active get out the vote campaigns. While this is much worse for the Conservatives, SKS doesn't set any pulses racing as Labour vote numbers were down almost 50% compared to 2019.

    Turnout in this constituency at GEs is approx 50,000. 22,639 voted, so 27,000+ "missing". Don't think this by-election guides us much.
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    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,809
    Random stats 2:
    16/18 by elections in 92-97 due to death
    8/14 by elections in 05-10 due to death
    4/13 by elections in 19-present due to death
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    Leon said:

    The Lib Dems are also staring at a REALLY bad general election, when they would normally hope to benefit from Tory travails

    I do not understand their inertia. The tactical move for them is obvious. Come out, loud and proud, as the party of Rejoin the EU immediately (after another referendum). There are enough hardcore Remoaners in southern England and the like to win them quite a few seats, indeed Remoaners tempted by Starmer might vote tactically for the LDs in the hope that they can pressure him towards Rejoin in a hung parliament

    What the F are they playing at? This would also bring them much needed attention

    It is amazing to me that no UK party is going out there swinging for the Rejoin vote, when the polls are clearly showing Brexit remorse

    Two thoughts:

    Main one is Fear of Farage; although Bremorse is a growing thing, "Brexit is in peril" would still work as a rallying cry. Maybe not enough to win in 2024, but enough to stir the political pot and make brown trousers the sensible choice on the centre left.

    But also... for all that I think 2016-now has been a damnfool thing done in a damnfool way, for all I think it can, should and will be reversed, nobody is going to be thanked for saying the time has come to give up on the dream. Because bits of it (mostly the unrealistic bits) were a lovely dream. Like killing a pet that can't survive, is probably making everyone's life miserable with its howling and incontinence... it's still a sad day when the vet sends it to live on a happpy farm.
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    Watching the first episode of season 2 of Clarkson's Farm is pretty grim for the Tories, Brexiteers, and Johnson & Gove in particular.

    When even the cnuts hate you..
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,604
    edited February 2023
    The swing at this by-election was almost exactly what Labour needs for a majority of one seat under the current boundaries.

    But perhaps they would get a higher swing in the marginals.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,981
    The PB Tory 2024 Manifesto in Full

    • Lee Anderson
    • Currygate
    • Jimmy Savile
    • Scottish Trans
    • Hanging
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,417
    edited February 2023

    Watching the first episode of season 2 of Clarkson's Farm is pretty grim for the Tories, Brexiteers, and Johnson & Gove in particular.

    When even the cnuts hate you..
    All previous sins of saying a woman should be tied to a rope and have faeces thrown at her are forgiven when you're a hero of remoanerism.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,938

    The PB Tory 2024 Manifesto in Full

    • Lee Anderson
    • Currygate
    • Jimmy Savile
    • Scottish Trans
    • Hanging

    Make Brexit Great Again...
  • Options
    If the Tories offer a referendum on the death penalty I will never vote for them in my life. It is sickening.
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    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    edited February 2023

    I know one poster is obsessed that the Tories are actually gaining but the poll they used for evidence is sticking with the mean.

    It's bounced up and down between 25 and 30 point leads for months now, literally nothing has changed, it is all just noise.

    What is happening is that Sunak's ratings are dropping to the floor.

    There’s some good things in your post, but your lack any detail or explanation or even expeditions.

    Instead of your general “25 to 30” the detail would be that over 3 months the average of polls has been closer to 25 than thirty, an average of 27 at best and 26 now. How what is happening there ties in with politics, LISTEN to Nadine Dorries in her Big Dog defence, in saying they bet the house on a Sunak bounce and didn’t get it.

    In fact what is it now, what is the very latest? The worst average the Tories got last year, they are just 3.3% above last time we looked - and even HY doesn’t argue with that - and, as you say, Sunak’s ratings are dropping some weeks now and appears to be dragging his party down with them.

    I have a GRAPHICAL REVELATION from the graphs on the wiki page.

    If you compare the frequent election polls graph with the less frequent merp polls graph, the election polls have Labour going up thanks to Truss bad few weeks, but Labour then crashing and losing half their Liz Leap. But on the MRP graph they barely dip down just keep going up.

    And looking to the end bit as we do to see what recent trends are revealed in Shape Format, the Shapes are different - the Labour smile shape is there on both graphs, but on the merp the Tories have no titties at all. 🤷‍♀️

    I’m not quite sure what all this means. Only that it means something to do with lines on frequent poll graph with lines in infrequent poll graph.

    Todays cut of our favourite graph



    The merp graph today



    My main take out is the trend on last 3 merps with different firms involved in them from a period of some time between are all under 100 seats and not good for the Tories.
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    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415

    If the Tories offer a referendum on the death penalty I will never vote for them in my life. It is sickening.

    I knew it! I predicted you would vote Tory some point in your life, and you are leaving that option open.
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    If the Tories offer a referendum on the death penalty I will never vote for them in my life. It is sickening.

    I knew it! I predicted you would vote Tory some point in your life, and you are leaving that option open.
    I've already voted for them
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    Sandpit said:

    Lee Anderson should do a David Davis and call a by-election. As Fraser Nelson says, the Red Wallers adore him and all he stands for, so he couldn't fail to increase his majority. That would be a great morale booster for the British Right and would put the fear of Jesus into Sir Keir and Labour. It is - as I believe today's youth would describe it - a 'no brainer'.

    The commenter yesterday that described Anderson as a Tory John Prescott, got it right.
    I suspect Anderson is more of a latter-day Ann Widdecombe. William Hague thought that appointing her would wave a magic wand over his political fortunes. It never quite worked out.
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    Andy_JS said:

    The swing at this by-election was almost exactly what Labour needs for a majority of one seat under the current boundaries.

    But perhaps they would get a higher swing in the marginals.

    If there is a 10% swing at the GE LAB will have a clear majority exactly for that reason.
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    Andy_JS said:

    The swing at this by-election was almost exactly what Labour needs for a majority of one seat under the current boundaries.

    But perhaps they would get a higher swing in the marginals.

    A finding from the recent MRP poll for Electoral Calculus was that the Conservative losses in vote share were greatest in their strongest seats. That's because the proportion of Conservatives deserting the party was fairly constant in multiplicative terms. It follows that in seats where the Conservatives start with a smaller vote share, such as in West Lancashire, they have less votes to lose.
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    mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,140
    edited February 2023
    Andy_JS said:

    The swing at this by-election was almost exactly what Labour needs for a majority of one seat under the current boundaries.

    But perhaps they would get a higher swing in the marginals.

    If a party has already soaked up 50%+ of the vote in a particular seat, you can argue that there's precious little left to swing. I am assuming that this really represents turnout differential, and the Labour voters are proportionately incentivized to come out. This is *very* bad news for the Tories if it works out this way at the GE, because their hopes are pinned on 2019 Tories who currently report themselves as "Don't Knows". They have to show up and vote Tory. My betting is predicated on the notion that they won't.
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,173
    edited February 2023

    If the Tories offer a referendum on the death penalty I will never vote for them in my life. It is sickening.

    It's an easy win for 30p Lee, Horse. His profile has gone through the roof in the last 48 hours.

    Forget the morality of hanging Stefan Kishko, the Birmingham 6, the Guildford 4, the Bridgewater 4, the Cardiff 3 and Judith Ward. Lee knows only the traitorous wokerati would disagree with hanging Ian Huntley.

    What Lee hasn't twigged he is just a useful idiot, a thick peasant populist clown that patrician Conservative MPs quietly revulsed by his attitudes, are laughing at behind his back. I am not laughing, I believe him to be very dangerous.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891

    If the Tories offer a referendum on the death penalty I will never vote for them in my life. It is sickening.

    I knew it! I predicted you would vote Tory some point in your life, and you are leaving that option open.
    I've already voted for them
    ...one Thursday in 1997 pissed as a newt I walked into voting booth and thought 'Portillo' that's a nice name....
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    Leon said:

    The Lib Dems are also staring at a REALLY bad general election, when they would normally hope to benefit from Tory travails

    I do not understand their inertia. The tactical move for them is obvious. Come out, loud and proud, as the party of Rejoin the EU immediately (after another referendum). There are enough hardcore Remoaners in southern England and the like to win them quite a few seats, indeed Remoaners tempted by Starmer might vote tactically for the LDs in the hope that they can pressure him towards Rejoin in a hung parliament

    What the F are they playing at? This would also bring them much needed attention

    It is amazing to me that no UK party is going out there swinging for the Rejoin vote, when the polls are clearly showing Brexit remorse

    How do you reach the conclusion that they are staring at a really bad general election? Whilst not great, yesterday's regression analysis had them more than doubling their seats. Isn't it the case that they go up where there is no Labour threat, and down if Labour are likely to win?
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    StockyStocky Posts: 9,718

    If the Tories offer a referendum on the death penalty I will never vote for them in my life. It is sickening.

    I knew it! I predicted you would vote Tory some point in your life, and you are leaving that option open.
    I've already voted for them
    Same here - once. In 2010. You?
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    mwadams said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The swing at this by-election was almost exactly what Labour needs for a majority of one seat under the current boundaries.

    But perhaps they would get a higher swing in the marginals.

    If a party has already soaked up 50%+ of the vote in a particular seat, you can argue that there's precious little left to swing. I am assuming that this really represents turnout differential, and the Labour voters are proportionately incentivized to come out. This is *very* bad news for the Tories if it works out this way at the GE, because their hopes are pinned on 2019 Tories who currently report themselves as "Don't Knows". They have to show up and vote Tory. My betting is predicated on the notion that they won't.
    These voters historically were anti-Tory/don't vote and came out to vote against Jezza who they hated and for Brexit which they wanted deeply. I suspect that kind of emphasis will not be there ever again.

    They're coming out to vote for the billionaire banker, really? No, this will be a reversion to 2015 where Labour held those seats. The Tories had one chance and they've blown it.
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,173
    Roger said:

    If the Tories offer a referendum on the death penalty I will never vote for them in my life. It is sickening.

    I knew it! I predicted you would vote Tory some point in your life, and you are leaving that option open.
    I've already voted for them
    ...one Thursday in 1997 pissed as a newt I walked into voting booth and thought 'Portillo' that's a nice name....
    Fortunately no damage done Roger, because on that day everyone else voted for Stephen Twigg.
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    TazTaz Posts: 11,166
    Hi @CorrectHorseBattery3 . How are you doing ? Any progress on the running ? I always do a couple of miles before a work from home day. Love it.
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,604
    "Our polling reveals Scottish voters are the most trans-sceptical
    By Freddie Sayers"

    https://unherd.com/2023/02/scotland-turns-on-gender-ideology/
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,147
    This earthquake. Jeez

    “Thousands of families wiped out in a few minutes”

    22,000 dead so far. It is an atom bomb
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    CorrectHorseBattery3CorrectHorseBattery3 Posts: 2,757
    edited February 2023
    Taz said:

    Hi @CorrectHorseBattery3 . How are you doing ? Any progress on the running ? I always do a couple of miles before a work from home day. Love it.

    Hi @Taz thanks for checking in. Still keeping the mental health good, glad the spring is coming and it is warming up. Summer is just around the corner!

    Running wise I am up to three times a week, only a few minutes of running each time but I am building it up. I am hoping fingers crossed I will be able to run my first 5K after many, many months, next month.

    How are you?
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    Great to have a fiscal Conservative in Number 11.

    Jeremy Hunt has all but ruled out a “major new initiative” to support households with their energy bills from April.

    The chancellor was speaking as ONS figures showed the UK economy narrowly dodged a recession at the end of last year, but growth is expected to remain close to zero in 2023.

    The energy price guarantee, which limits the amount suppliers can charge per unit of energy used, is set to finish at the end of March.

    Labour has called for it to be extended. But the chancellor, asked if he was ruling out more support, said: “We constantly keep the help we can give families under review.

    “But if you’re saying ‘do I think we’re going to have the headroom to make a major new initiative to help people?’ I don’t think the situation would have changed very significantly from the autumn statement, which was just three months ago.”

    While Hunt insisted he “knew just how tough it is for many people dealing with these huge spikes in their energy bills”, he said he needed to be responsible with public finances.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/uk-economy-recession-latest-news-rishi-sunak-dominic-raab-nwlbpkcmx

    Martin Lewis pointed earlier this week that the ending of the energy price guarantee is timed to coincide with the ending of direct support payments to households. He was citing a rise of 40% in bills net of those support payments in April.
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    I just cannot see any scenario where the Tories hold the Red Wall.

    Levelling up = no
    Sunak = no
    Corbyn = no
    Johnson = no

    What reason do these people have to vote Tory? They voted for Ed M and Brown, they will vote for Starmer.
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    TazTaz Posts: 11,166

    If the Tories offer a referendum on the death penalty I will never vote for them in my life. It is sickening.

    It's an easy win for 30p Lee, Horse. His profile has gone through the roof in the last 48 hours.

    Forget the morality of hanging Stefan Kishko, the Birmingham 6, the Guildford 4, the Bridgewater 4, the Cardiff 3 and Judith Ward. Lee knows only the traitorous wokerati would disagree with hanging Ian Huntley.

    What Lee hasn't twigged he is just a useful idiot, a thick peasant populist clown that patrician Conservative MPs quietly revulsed by his attitudes, are laughing at behind his back. I am not laughing, I believe him to be very dangerous.
    It’s an awful debate to get dragged into on social media because the moment you say you don’t agree with hanging Ian Huntley you are automatically assumed by a chunk of people to support him.

    Surely Life without parole, especially for a younger person, is a far greater punishment than the death penalty anyway.
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    Taz said:

    If the Tories offer a referendum on the death penalty I will never vote for them in my life. It is sickening.

    It's an easy win for 30p Lee, Horse. His profile has gone through the roof in the last 48 hours.

    Forget the morality of hanging Stefan Kishko, the Birmingham 6, the Guildford 4, the Bridgewater 4, the Cardiff 3 and Judith Ward. Lee knows only the traitorous wokerati would disagree with hanging Ian Huntley.

    What Lee hasn't twigged he is just a useful idiot, a thick peasant populist clown that patrician Conservative MPs quietly revulsed by his attitudes, are laughing at behind his back. I am not laughing, I believe him to be very dangerous.
    It’s an awful debate to get dragged into on social media because the moment you say you don’t agree with hanging Ian Huntley you are automatically assumed by a chunk of people to support him.

    Surely Life without parole, especially for a younger person, is a far greater punishment than the death penalty anyway.
    Also much cheaper.

    Let these people rot in prison. I am not a Christian but a life can never be worth another.
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    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415

    If the Tories offer a referendum on the death penalty I will never vote for them in my life. It is sickening.

    I knew it! I predicted you would vote Tory some point in your life, and you are leaving that option open.
    I've already voted for them
    I havn’t! 😇
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    If the Tories offer a referendum on the death penalty I will never vote for them in my life. It is sickening.

    I knew it! I predicted you would vote Tory some point in your life, and you are leaving that option open.
    I've already voted for them
    I havn’t! 😇
    Good for you. So how are you?
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    I should be the ideal young Tory voter.

    Own a house, work in the private sector, earn very well and I am a hard worker.

    Yet the Tories continue to drift away from me. One day this will cause them a lot of problems, that day will yet come.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,147

    Leon said:

    The Lib Dems are also staring at a REALLY bad general election, when they would normally hope to benefit from Tory travails

    I do not understand their inertia. The tactical move for them is obvious. Come out, loud and proud, as the party of Rejoin the EU immediately (after another referendum). There are enough hardcore Remoaners in southern England and the like to win them quite a few seats, indeed Remoaners tempted by Starmer might vote tactically for the LDs in the hope that they can pressure him towards Rejoin in a hung parliament

    What the F are they playing at? This would also bring them much needed attention

    It is amazing to me that no UK party is going out there swinging for the Rejoin vote, when the polls are clearly showing Brexit remorse

    Two thoughts:

    Main one is Fear of Farage; although Bremorse is a growing thing, "Brexit is in peril" would still work as a rallying cry. Maybe not enough to win in 2024, but enough to stir the political pot and make brown trousers the sensible choice on the centre left.

    But also... for all that I think 2016-now has been a damnfool thing done in a damnfool way, for all I think it can, should and will be reversed, nobody is going to be thanked for saying the time has come to give up on the dream. Because bits of it (mostly the unrealistic bits) were a lovely dream. Like killing a pet that can't survive, is probably making everyone's life miserable with its howling and incontinence... it's still a sad day when the vet sends it to live on a happpy farm.
    I’m not arguing the pros and cons of Brexit, I am wondering why the Lib Dems are not shooting for the open goal of Bregret

    It’s what they believe, they are facing an electoral nightmare, why not come out and say it? Rejoin?
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274
    Correction to the lead title, what are needed are Tory by-election failures to defend!
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586
    Some good news for a change.

    The secret is out 🚨. Our new #fusionenergy advanced prototype with power plant-relevant magnet tech will be built at @UKAEAofficial Culham Campus #Oxford. ST80-HTS will demonstrate multiple technologies required for clean, sustainable fusion energy ⚡️
    https://mobile.twitter.com/TokamakEnergy/status/1623940588478529537
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    mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,140
    Thinking about the statement posited in the header - I think this is incorrect. We can learn less from a specific, focused campaign when all parties are putting in maximum effort (far beyond that which is possible in a GE) than we can from a low-motivation by-election where we get to see what a pool of electors do prompted by "average" campaign effort.
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    The public clearly regrets Brexit but oddly the Tories don't care about those concerns.

    Non-existent concerns like wokeness taking over and the Human Rights Act, yes let's go full throttle on those!

    These people have got to go.
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,173
    Taz said:

    If the Tories offer a referendum on the death penalty I will never vote for them in my life. It is sickening.

    It's an easy win for 30p Lee, Horse. His profile has gone through the roof in the last 48 hours.

    Forget the morality of hanging Stefan Kishko, the Birmingham 6, the Guildford 4, the Bridgewater 4, the Cardiff 3 and Judith Ward. Lee knows only the traitorous wokerati would disagree with hanging Ian Huntley.

    What Lee hasn't twigged he is just a useful idiot, a thick peasant populist clown that patrician Conservative MPs quietly revulsed by his attitudes, are laughing at behind his back. I am not laughing, I believe him to be very dangerous.
    It’s an awful debate to get dragged into on social media because the moment you say you don’t agree with hanging Ian Huntley you are automatically assumed by a chunk of people to support him.

    Surely Life without parole, especially for a younger person, is a far greater punishment than the death penalty anyway.
    It really is wickedly cynical. I doubt 30p Lee even believes in capital punishment, unlike Priti and Suella, who I suspect dream of the day Mr Pierrepoint gives them their photo opportunity with the trapdoor lever.

    The Brexit referendum should be a warning to the Conservatives of playing fast and loose for short term political gain.
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    Taz said:

    If the Tories offer a referendum on the death penalty I will never vote for them in my life. It is sickening.

    It's an easy win for 30p Lee, Horse. His profile has gone through the roof in the last 48 hours.

    Forget the morality of hanging Stefan Kishko, the Birmingham 6, the Guildford 4, the Bridgewater 4, the Cardiff 3 and Judith Ward. Lee knows only the traitorous wokerati would disagree with hanging Ian Huntley.

    What Lee hasn't twigged he is just a useful idiot, a thick peasant populist clown that patrician Conservative MPs quietly revulsed by his attitudes, are laughing at behind his back. I am not laughing, I believe him to be very dangerous.
    It’s an awful debate to get dragged into on social media because the moment you say you don’t agree with hanging Ian Huntley you are automatically assumed by a chunk of people to support him.

    Surely Life without parole, especially for a younger person, is a far greater punishment than the death penalty anyway.
    It really is wickedly cynical. I doubt 30p Lee even believes in capital punishment, unlike Priti and Suella, who I suspect dream of the day Mr Pierrepoint gives them their photo opportunity with the trapdoor lever.

    The Brexit referendum should be a warning to the Conservatives of playing fast and loose for short term political gain.
    The UK was at ease with itself under New Labour, societally it really was. We have got to get back to that.
  • Options
    Andy_JS said:

    "Our polling reveals Scottish voters are the most trans-sceptical
    By Freddie Sayers"

    https://unherd.com/2023/02/scotland-turns-on-gender-ideology/

    Taken as a whole, there seems to be a majority of voters coming to a nuanced position on this issue: supportive of people who wish to identify as a different gender, but sharply defensive of women-only spaces and sports. And on the evidence of Scotland, the more they are exposed to the arguments the clearer that view becomes.

    Which is probably why its proponents wanted "No Debate".


  • Options
    DriverDriver Posts: 4,522

    Taz said:

    If the Tories offer a referendum on the death penalty I will never vote for them in my life. It is sickening.

    It's an easy win for 30p Lee, Horse. His profile has gone through the roof in the last 48 hours.

    Forget the morality of hanging Stefan Kishko, the Birmingham 6, the Guildford 4, the Bridgewater 4, the Cardiff 3 and Judith Ward. Lee knows only the traitorous wokerati would disagree with hanging Ian Huntley.

    What Lee hasn't twigged he is just a useful idiot, a thick peasant populist clown that patrician Conservative MPs quietly revulsed by his attitudes, are laughing at behind his back. I am not laughing, I believe him to be very dangerous.
    It’s an awful debate to get dragged into on social media because the moment you say you don’t agree with hanging Ian Huntley you are automatically assumed by a chunk of people to support him.

    Surely Life without parole, especially for a younger person, is a far greater punishment than the death penalty anyway.
    It really is wickedly cynical. I doubt 30p Lee even believes in capital punishment, unlike Priti and Suella, who I suspect dream of the day Mr Pierrepoint gives them their photo opportunity with the trapdoor lever.

    The Brexit referendum should be a warning to the Conservatives of playing fast and loose for short term political gain.
    The UK was at ease with itself under New Labour, societally it really was. We have got to get back to that.
    Andrew Neather says hi.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,147

    Taz said:

    If the Tories offer a referendum on the death penalty I will never vote for them in my life. It is sickening.

    It's an easy win for 30p Lee, Horse. His profile has gone through the roof in the last 48 hours.

    Forget the morality of hanging Stefan Kishko, the Birmingham 6, the Guildford 4, the Bridgewater 4, the Cardiff 3 and Judith Ward. Lee knows only the traitorous wokerati would disagree with hanging Ian Huntley.

    What Lee hasn't twigged he is just a useful idiot, a thick peasant populist clown that patrician Conservative MPs quietly revulsed by his attitudes, are laughing at behind his back. I am not laughing, I believe him to be very dangerous.
    It’s an awful debate to get dragged into on social media because the moment you say you don’t agree with hanging Ian Huntley you are automatically assumed by a chunk of people to support him.

    Surely Life without parole, especially for a younger person, is a far greater punishment than the death penalty anyway.
    It really is wickedly cynical. I doubt 30p Lee even believes in capital punishment, unlike Priti and Suella, who I suspect dream of the day Mr Pierrepoint gives them their photo opportunity with the trapdoor lever.

    The Brexit referendum should be a warning to the Conservatives of playing fast and loose for short term political gain.
    The UK was at ease with itself under New Labour, societally it really was. We have got to get back to that.
    What a load of fucking bollocks. Mass immigration - unprecedented in UK history - began under new Labour. They abolished primary purpose, they opened the doors to Eastern Europe (when countries like France and Germany did not). Blair and Brown’s insane migration policies - “rub the noses of the Right in diversity” - led directly to Brexit

    You can be forgiven your moodswings. But this is arrant nonsense and an outright lie
  • Options
    AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,004

    The public clearly regrets Brexit but oddly the Tories don't care about those concerns.

    Non-existent concerns like wokeness taking over and the Human Rights Act, yes let's go full throttle on those!

    These people have got to go.

    Non-existent to you. I think it is safe to assume though that they are existent for many people.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,173
    ...

    Taz said:

    If the Tories offer a referendum on the death penalty I will never vote for them in my life. It is sickening.

    It's an easy win for 30p Lee, Horse. His profile has gone through the roof in the last 48 hours.

    Forget the morality of hanging Stefan Kishko, the Birmingham 6, the Guildford 4, the Bridgewater 4, the Cardiff 3 and Judith Ward. Lee knows only the traitorous wokerati would disagree with hanging Ian Huntley.

    What Lee hasn't twigged he is just a useful idiot, a thick peasant populist clown that patrician Conservative MPs quietly revulsed by his attitudes, are laughing at behind his back. I am not laughing, I believe him to be very dangerous.
    It’s an awful debate to get dragged into on social media because the moment you say you don’t agree with hanging Ian Huntley you are automatically assumed by a chunk of people to support him.

    Surely Life without parole, especially for a younger person, is a far greater punishment than the death penalty anyway.
    It really is wickedly cynical. I doubt 30p Lee even believes in capital punishment, unlike Priti and Suella, who I suspect dream of the day Mr Pierrepoint gives them their photo opportunity with the trapdoor lever.

    The Brexit referendum should be a warning to the Conservatives of playing fast and loose for short term political gain.
    The UK was at ease with itself under New Labour, societally it really was. We have got to get back to that.
    The EU Referendum changed the narrative, I suspect forever. We live in a plural political system where a little over 50% are indulged with their every whim (Brexit first, next hanging) whilst the remaining almost 50% are left feeling desperately uncomfortable with the direction of travel. David Cameron opened that Pandora's Box.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,147
    AlistairM said:

    The public clearly regrets Brexit but oddly the Tories don't care about those concerns.

    Non-existent concerns like wokeness taking over and the Human Rights Act, yes let's go full throttle on those!

    These people have got to go.

    Non-existent to you. I think it is safe to assume though that they are existent for many people.
    The “non existent issue of Wokeness” - in the guise of the Trans debate - has just battered the polling of the Scottish First Minister and pushed any Scottish Indy referendum into the 2030s at least

    “Non existent” my cis gender Cornish arse
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,187
    Leon said:

    The Lib Dems are also staring at a REALLY bad general election, when they would normally hope to benefit from Tory travails

    I do not understand their inertia. The tactical move for them is obvious. Come out, loud and proud, as the party of Rejoin the EU immediately (after another referendum). There are enough hardcore Remoaners in southern England and the like to win them quite a few seats, indeed Remoaners tempted by Starmer might vote tactically for the LDs in the hope that they can pressure him towards Rejoin in a hung parliament

    What the F are they playing at? This would also bring them much needed attention

    It is amazing to me that no UK party is going out there swinging for the Rejoin vote, when the polls are clearly showing Brexit remorse

    That's an interesting idea but we need to get more precise with the language on this now. After nearly 7 years you can't be both a Remoaner and a Rejoiner. A Remoaner is passive, pissed off, backwards looking; a Rejoiner is head up, future facing, active.

    I avoid analogies as a rule, they're overdone in punditry and can easily slide into a silliness that helps no-one (eg Brexit is like changing a nappy), but a good way to illustrate what I mean here is to imagine your dog has shat on the carpet.

    In which case you can (i) sit there looking at it, grumbling at the mess, castigating the dog and yourself for failing to train it properly; or (ii) you can screw that for a game of soldiers and go, "right, let's get this cleared up!" and then think about getting a goldfish.

    Option (i) is Remoaning. Option (ii) is the can-do spirit of Rejoin.

    I'm a Remoaner btw. I'm still slumped in my chair gazing at the steaming pile of doo doo, chuntering how it shouldn't have happened, "why oh why oh why", unable (yet) to get up and do anything about it. But one day (and I'll let everyone know when this happens) I'll snap out of this and then I'll be a Remoaner no more. I'll be a Rejoiner.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,166

    Taz said:

    Hi @CorrectHorseBattery3 . How are you doing ? Any progress on the running ? I always do a couple of miles before a work from home day. Love it.

    Hi @Taz thanks for checking in. Still keeping the mental health good, glad the spring is coming and it is warming up. Summer is just around the corner!

    Running wise I am up to three times a week, only a few minutes of running each time but I am building it up. I am hoping fingers crossed I will be able to run my first 5K after many, many months, next month.

    How are you?
    Good thanks.

    Always feel good when the weather is on the turn and the nights brighten 😀

    We are also filling in our diary and got a few nice weekends booked.

    I am hoping to do the local 5K to me in March. I only got into running thanks to my wife and Jo Wiley on Couch to 5K
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,991

    Taz said:

    If the Tories offer a referendum on the death penalty I will never vote for them in my life. It is sickening.

    It's an easy win for 30p Lee, Horse. His profile has gone through the roof in the last 48 hours.

    Forget the morality of hanging Stefan Kishko, the Birmingham 6, the Guildford 4, the Bridgewater 4, the Cardiff 3 and Judith Ward. Lee knows only the traitorous wokerati would disagree with hanging Ian Huntley.

    What Lee hasn't twigged he is just a useful idiot, a thick peasant populist clown that patrician Conservative MPs quietly revulsed by his attitudes, are laughing at behind his back. I am not laughing, I believe him to be very dangerous.
    It’s an awful debate to get dragged into on social media because the moment you say you don’t agree with hanging Ian Huntley you are automatically assumed by a chunk of people to support him.

    Surely Life without parole, especially for a younger person, is a far greater punishment than the death penalty anyway.
    It really is wickedly cynical. I doubt 30p Lee even believes in capital punishment, unlike Priti and Suella, who I suspect dream of the day Mr Pierrepoint gives them their photo opportunity with the trapdoor lever.

    The Brexit referendum should be a warning to the Conservatives of playing fast and loose for short term political gain.
    The UK was at ease with itself under New Labour, societally it really was. We have got to get back to that.
    No it wasn't entirely, Blair's delivering immigration from the new EU accession nations without transition controls helped created the stage for Brexit after cutting working class wages
  • Options

    Andy_JS said:

    "Our polling reveals Scottish voters are the most trans-sceptical
    By Freddie Sayers"

    https://unherd.com/2023/02/scotland-turns-on-gender-ideology/

    Taken as a whole, there seems to be a majority of voters coming to a nuanced position on this issue: supportive of people who wish to identify as a different gender, but sharply defensive of women-only spaces and sports. And on the evidence of Scotland, the more they are exposed to the arguments the clearer that view becomes.

    Which is probably why its proponents wanted "No Debate".


    Scots are hypocrites.

    They have a long history of men wearing skirts in Scotland.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,173

    The public clearly regrets Brexit but oddly the Tories don't care about those concerns.

    Non-existent concerns like wokeness taking over and the Human Rights Act, yes let's go full throttle on those!

    These people have got to go.

    We are at the point where the corruption of power drives the power of corruption and vice versa. The current winners need to continue winning to keep the gravy train on the tracks. Undermine the incumbent to see the return of the king over the water, voter suppression, thoughtless short term populist policy, whatever it takes.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,991
    Leon said:

    Can’t believe no one is BAXTERING that mad poll from the last thread. Or are we all just used to this craziness now?

    It gives

    Labour: 543
    Tories: 21
    LDs: 15
    SNP: 47

    = SNP official opposition and the Tories destroyed forever

    And we are now less than two years from the last possible GE?

    On the swing in last night's by election, rather than the usual mad Goodwin poll, it would be a hung parliament and Tories 243 seats
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415

    I should be the ideal young Tory voter.

    Own a house, work in the private sector, earn very well and I am a hard worker.

    Yet the Tories continue to drift away from me. One day this will cause them a lot of problems, that day will yet come.

    I should be a Tory voter as well. As well as many PBers who once were. But I agree with the suggestion in your thread, this is more than a tired clapped out party in government change, this I agree is fundamental.

    Raised by two Conservative Party members in a part of the world the handful of votes for Labour is marked down as spoilt ballots, but in nearly 9 years have yet to vote Tory. I think Because I take a very keen interest in these things and I have my idea what the Conservative Party should be, and this current mob are not it, not by a long way.

    The Party always stood for opening up markets, helping business, sound finance and growth - not hostile to a public sector, but through sound finance and growth and no debt repayments, actually providing the best foundation for providing the best funding to public services.

    Classic Conservativism always had a liberal - in the old fashioned, tolerant sense which believes in freedom, rights and responsibility - so Being liberal too is at the heart of being a true Conservative, and makes the difference between them and ideologies what exist to the right of them.

    Boris extermination of the life long liberal conservatives MPs over one vote, after all his own and friends rebelling, was disgusting and never necessary in my opinion. If you need to go to those lengths to get a policy through then you need to think about what you are doing.

    Behind their constant attacks on the integrity of the civil service is very real financial incompetence, corruption and sleaze being carried out by the Conservative Party.

    In the fifties and sixties an era of collectivism and community, the Conservative Party and her leaders and their governments very much agreed with this. But in the 60’s was sown the seed of a new era - individualism. And the party that done so well in the 20th century is now get screwed by abandoning collectivism and community.

    They are now the we will have our cake and eat it party, which is fantasy in all its policy positions.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,173
    ...

    Andy_JS said:

    "Our polling reveals Scottish voters are the most trans-sceptical
    By Freddie Sayers"

    https://unherd.com/2023/02/scotland-turns-on-gender-ideology/

    Taken as a whole, there seems to be a majority of voters coming to a nuanced position on this issue: supportive of people who wish to identify as a different gender, but sharply defensive of women-only spaces and sports. And on the evidence of Scotland, the more they are exposed to the arguments the clearer that view becomes.

    Which is probably why its proponents wanted "No Debate".


    Scots are hypocrites.

    They have a long history of men wearing skirts in Scotland.
    A good point, and our resident kilt wearer Malcolm, I believe often complains about the promotion of c***s in frocks.
  • Options
    AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,004

    Andy_JS said:

    "Our polling reveals Scottish voters are the most trans-sceptical
    By Freddie Sayers"

    https://unherd.com/2023/02/scotland-turns-on-gender-ideology/

    Taken as a whole, there seems to be a majority of voters coming to a nuanced position on this issue: supportive of people who wish to identify as a different gender, but sharply defensive of women-only spaces and sports. And on the evidence of Scotland, the more they are exposed to the arguments the clearer that view becomes.

    Which is probably why its proponents wanted "No Debate".


    Scots are hypocrites.

    They have a long history of men wearing skirts in Scotland.
    Isn't that saying that transgender people to be able to exist in the gender that they choose, BUT.... it shouldn't be made easier, they can't use women's-only areas or take part in women's sport. That sounds to me like people were generally fairly happy with the status quo.

    For me there are a couple of options that are workable. Transwomen can only use women-only spaces if they no longer have male genitalia. Transwomen have to take part in sports competitions in an "open" category which replaces the "mens" category.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,147
    So it turns out there is a local posh-ish canteen which will deliver to my hotel a superb prawn laksa, Kyoto seaweed salad, Taiwanese hot soup dumplings and tremendous won ton, for £12. Door to hotel door in 35 minutes, after a couple of clicks on an iPhone: ie the perfect amount of time to have two G&Ts on the moonlit rooftop bar then go collect your food

    Bangkok in Jan-Feb is, verily, a kind of earthly paradise

    And now I get to watch “The Boys” with a nice bottle of 19 crimes. This, here, is mmmmmmmBOP
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,173
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Can’t believe no one is BAXTERING that mad poll from the last thread. Or are we all just used to this craziness now?

    It gives

    Labour: 543
    Tories: 21
    LDs: 15
    SNP: 47

    = SNP official opposition and the Tories destroyed forever

    And we are now less than two years from the last possible GE?

    On the swing in last night's by election, rather than the usual mad Goodwin poll, it would be a hung parliament and Tories 243 seats
    There you go again selecting the narrative that tells your story.
  • Options
    The SNP’s transport minister has been mocked after blaming Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine for the Scottish government abandoning its own deadline to dual what has been dubbed the country’s most dangerous road.

    More than 11 years after the party first promised to fully upgrade the A9 between Perth and Inverness, Jenny Gilruth admitted that the 2025 deadline was “simply unachievable”.

    She said she was unable to provide a new date as she attributed the open-ended delay to a series of outside factors harming the £3 billion project.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/minister-blames-delays-to-a9-upgrade-on-putin-hrbqc36zz
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    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Can’t believe no one is BAXTERING that mad poll from the last thread. Or are we all just used to this craziness now?

    It gives

    Labour: 543
    Tories: 21
    LDs: 15
    SNP: 47

    = SNP official opposition and the Tories destroyed forever

    And we are now less than two years from the last possible GE?

    On the swing in last night's by election, rather than the usual mad Goodwin poll, it would be a hung parliament and Tories 243 seats
    That's. Not. How. It. Works.
  • Options
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    The Lib Dems are also staring at a REALLY bad general election, when they would normally hope to benefit from Tory travails

    I do not understand their inertia. The tactical move for them is obvious. Come out, loud and proud, as the party of Rejoin the EU immediately (after another referendum). There are enough hardcore Remoaners in southern England and the like to win them quite a few seats, indeed Remoaners tempted by Starmer might vote tactically for the LDs in the hope that they can pressure him towards Rejoin in a hung parliament

    What the F are they playing at? This would also bring them much needed attention

    It is amazing to me that no UK party is going out there swinging for the Rejoin vote, when the polls are clearly showing Brexit remorse

    That's an interesting idea but we need to get more precise with the language on this now. After nearly 7 years you can't be both a Remoaner and a Rejoiner. A Remoaner is passive, pissed off, backwards looking; a Rejoiner is head up, future facing, active.

    I avoid analogies as a rule, they're overdone in punditry and can easily slide into a silliness that helps no-one (eg Brexit is like changing a nappy), but a good way to illustrate what I mean here is to imagine your dog has shat on the carpet.

    In which case you can (i) sit there looking at it, grumbling at the mess, castigating the dog and yourself for failing to train it properly; or (ii) you can screw that for a game of soldiers and go, "right, let's get this cleared up!" and then think about getting a goldfish.

    Option (i) is Remoaning. Option (ii) is the can-do spirit of Rejoin.

    I'm a Remoaner btw. I'm still slumped in my chair gazing at the steaming pile of doo doo, chuntering how it shouldn't have happened, "why oh why oh why", unable (yet) to get up and do anything about it. But one day (and I'll let everyone know when this happens) I'll snap out of this and then I'll be a Remoaner no more. I'll be a Rejoiner.
    The thing is you and I didn't want the dog in the first place. Indeed, we raised some questions of what would happen to the cream carpets and the reasonably nice furniture. But we were overruled by our other half and their parents. This sort of thing happens, and is one of the spices of life. But they're not cleaning the mess up either, and sometimes hint that it's our fault for not training the dog properly.

    And the worst of it? It's getting to the point where we probably could phone up Battersea Dog's Home and ask them to take Nigel the Bulldog away. But we'd feel like utter scumbags for doing that. At least today we would...
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586
    rcs1000 said:
    No, that's fairly normal behaviour from him, I think.
    Not really evidence as to how it might be effecting him.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891

    I know one poster is obsessed that the Tories are actually gaining but the poll they used for evidence is sticking with the mean.

    It's bounced up and down between 25 and 30 point leads for months now, literally nothing has changed, it is all just noise.

    What is happening is that Sunak's ratings are dropping to the floor.

    There’s some good things in your post, but your lack any detail or explanation or even expeditions.

    Instead of your general “25 to 30” the detail would be that over 3 months the average of polls has been closer to 25 than thirty, an average of 27 at best and 26 now. How what is happening there ties in with politics, LISTEN to Nadine Dorries in her Big Dog defence, in saying they bet the house on a Sunak bounce and didn’t get it.

    In fact what is it now, what is the very latest? The worst average the Tories got last year, they are just 3.3% above last time we looked - and even HY doesn’t argue with that - and, as you say, Sunak’s ratings are dropping some weeks now and appears to be dragging his party down with them.

    I have a GRAPHICAL REVELATION from the graphs on the wiki page.

    If you compare the frequent election polls graph with the less frequent merp polls graph, the election polls have Labour going up thanks to Truss bad few weeks, but Labour then crashing and losing half their Liz Leap. But on the MRP graph they barely dip down just keep going up.

    And looking to the end bit as we do to see what recent trends are revealed in Shape Format, the Shapes are different - the Labour smile shape is there on both graphs, but on the merp the Tories have no titties at all. 🤷‍♀️

    I’m not quite sure what all this means. Only that it means something to do with lines on frequent poll graph with lines in infrequent poll graph.

    Todays cut of our favourite graph



    The merp graph today



    My main take out is the trend on last 3 merps with different firms involved in them from a period of some time between are all under 100 seats and not good for the Tories.
    Is that one of those psychiatrist jokes....'I woke up and thought I was a dog....'
  • Options
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Hi @CorrectHorseBattery3 . How are you doing ? Any progress on the running ? I always do a couple of miles before a work from home day. Love it.

    Hi @Taz thanks for checking in. Still keeping the mental health good, glad the spring is coming and it is warming up. Summer is just around the corner!

    Running wise I am up to three times a week, only a few minutes of running each time but I am building it up. I am hoping fingers crossed I will be able to run my first 5K after many, many months, next month.

    How are you?
    Good thanks.

    Always feel good when the weather is on the turn and the nights brighten 😀

    We are also filling in our diary and got a few nice weekends booked.

    I am hoping to do the local 5K to me in March. I only got into running thanks to my wife and Jo Wiley on Couch to 5K
    I did Couch to 5K for the same reason!!! It's genuinely one of the best things the BBC has done in the last decade, no doubt about it.

    Parkrun is fantastic, I do miss it.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586
    Roger said:

    If the Tories offer a referendum on the death penalty I will never vote for them in my life. It is sickening.

    I knew it! I predicted you would vote Tory some point in your life, and you are leaving that option open.
    I've already voted for them
    ...one Thursday in 1997 pissed as a newt I walked into voting booth and thought 'Portillo' that's a nice name....
    Was that the birth of the Rogerdamus legend ?
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    When MSPs from across the political spectrum lined up behind the Scottish Government’s plan to make it easier for people to change their gender in law, they basked in the praise of activists and publicly-funded campaign groups.

    They considered themselves righteous champions of fairness and equality, and denounced their critics as bigoted and out of touch.

    Now, those same politicians dance on the heads of pins, squirming and avoiding questions about this most controversial of issues.….

    When Sarwar should have been challenging the Scottish Government over reforms which were legally unworkable, he meekly fell into line. This political cowardice was helpful neither to transgender people nor to those who felt the legislation went too far.

    In purely political terms, Sarwar has blown it. Never in her long and successful career has Nicola Sturgeon appeared more vulnerable. Her obsession with reforming the GRA has likely set her at odds with fellow nationalists and the majority of Scottish voters.


    https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/opinion/columnists/5377924/anas-sarwar-political-shield-snp-euan-mccolm-opinion/
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926
    I note my Biden heavyish POTUS position seems to have improved in the last fortnight or so.
  • Options

    I should be the ideal young Tory voter.

    Own a house, work in the private sector, earn very well and I am a hard worker.

    Yet the Tories continue to drift away from me. One day this will cause them a lot of problems, that day will yet come.

    I'm never going to be a Tory, but working in the financial sector I am surrounded by people who are, who used to be or who should be (and it may surprise some to learn that I get on with them very well). From talking to them it's clear that the Tories have lost much of their natural support in the last few years. It's similar to what one hears on here, but from people who are much less politically engaged, and thus rather more representative of the population a whole.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,147

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    The Lib Dems are also staring at a REALLY bad general election, when they would normally hope to benefit from Tory travails

    I do not understand their inertia. The tactical move for them is obvious. Come out, loud and proud, as the party of Rejoin the EU immediately (after another referendum). There are enough hardcore Remoaners in southern England and the like to win them quite a few seats, indeed Remoaners tempted by Starmer might vote tactically for the LDs in the hope that they can pressure him towards Rejoin in a hung parliament

    What the F are they playing at? This would also bring them much needed attention

    It is amazing to me that no UK party is going out there swinging for the Rejoin vote, when the polls are clearly showing Brexit remorse

    That's an interesting idea but we need to get more precise with the language on this now. After nearly 7 years you can't be both a Remoaner and a Rejoiner. A Remoaner is passive, pissed off, backwards looking; a Rejoiner is head up, future facing, active.

    I avoid analogies as a rule, they're overdone in punditry and can easily slide into a silliness that helps no-one (eg Brexit is like changing a nappy), but a good way to illustrate what I mean here is to imagine your dog has shat on the carpet.

    In which case you can (i) sit there looking at it, grumbling at the mess, castigating the dog and yourself for failing to train it properly; or (ii) you can screw that for a game of soldiers and go, "right, let's get this cleared up!" and then think about getting a goldfish.

    Option (i) is Remoaning. Option (ii) is the can-do spirit of Rejoin.

    I'm a Remoaner btw. I'm still slumped in my chair gazing at the steaming pile of doo doo, chuntering how it shouldn't have happened, "why oh why oh why", unable (yet) to get up and do anything about it. But one day (and I'll let everyone know when this happens) I'll snap out of this and then I'll be a Remoaner no more. I'll be a Rejoiner.
    The thing is you and I didn't want the dog in the first place. Indeed, we raised some questions of what would happen to the cream carpets and the reasonably nice furniture. But we were overruled by our other half and their parents. This sort of thing happens, and is one of the spices of life. But they're not cleaning the mess up either, and sometimes hint that it's our fault for not training the dog properly.

    And the worst of it? It's getting to the point where we probably could phone up Battersea Dog's Home and ask them to take Nigel the Bulldog away. But we'd feel like utter scumbags for doing that. At least today we would...
    ‘you and I didn’t want the dog in the first place’

    =

    ‘These people never wanted to be parents in the first place”

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-brexit-is-just-like-having-a-baby/

    Brexit = Baby remains the greatest analogy in the history of PB - maybe in the history of humanity. We can only hope that one day the immortal @SeanT might one day *Rejoin* pb

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    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,432
    edited February 2023
    Roger said:

    If the Tories offer a referendum on the death penalty I will never vote for them in my life. It is sickening.

    I knew it! I predicted you would vote Tory some point in your life, and you are leaving that option open.
    I've already voted for them
    ...one Thursday in 1997 pissed as a newt I walked into voting booth and thought 'Portillo' that's a nice name....
    Probably the inevitable after effects of drinking and your subconscious linking Portillo with Portaloo guiding you to tick that box?

    I assume Portillo would be the PB rail enthusiasts' (of which there seem quite a few) choice for PM, even now?
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    The SNP’s transport minister has been mocked after blaming Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine for the Scottish government abandoning its own deadline to dual what has been dubbed the country’s most dangerous road.

    More than 11 years after the party first promised to fully upgrade the A9 between Perth and Inverness, Jenny Gilruth admitted that the 2025 deadline was “simply unachievable”.

    She said she was unable to provide a new date as she attributed the open-ended delay to a series of outside factors harming the £3 billion project.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/minister-blames-delays-to-a9-upgrade-on-putin-hrbqc36zz

    We are proud to be the voice of our community, so we won’t let this dead SNP promise rest in peace.


    https://twitter.com/InvCourier/status/1623961783630196736
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    I should be the ideal young Tory voter.

    Own a house, work in the private sector, earn very well and I am a hard worker.

    Yet the Tories continue to drift away from me. One day this will cause them a lot of problems, that day will yet come.

    I'm never going to be a Tory, but working in the financial sector I am surrounded by people who are, who used to be or who should be (and it may surprise some to learn that I get on with them very well). From talking to them it's clear that the Tories have lost much of their natural support in the last few years. It's similar to what one hears on here, but from people who are much less politically engaged, and thus rather more representative of the population a whole.
    Brexit started it off and the Tories have continued destroying all the work Cameron did.

    I know people think Johnson's party was more "in touch" but their obsession with trans people, the EU and immigrants just doesn't resonate with my/our folk. They're losing them by going on about this nonsense. And they've now shredded their economic credentials too.

    The Tory Party will rediscover Cameron/Blair at some point. But they are going to have to lose and lose big - and long term that is what is needed. It saved Labour.
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,417
    ...
    Leon said:

    So it turns out there is a local posh-ish canteen which will deliver to my hotel a superb prawn laksa, Kyoto seaweed salad, Taiwanese hot soup dumplings and tremendous won ton, for £12. Door to hotel door in 35 minutes, after a couple of clicks on an iPhone: ie the perfect amount of time to have two G&Ts on the moonlit rooftop bar then go collect your food

    Bangkok in Jan-Feb is, verily, a kind of earthly paradise

    And now I get to watch “The Boys” with a nice bottle of 19 crimes. This, here, is mmmmmmmBOP

    Hoping 'The Boys' is a TV programme, though I suppose when in Bangkok...
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    Selebian said:

    Roger said:

    If the Tories offer a referendum on the death penalty I will never vote for them in my life. It is sickening.

    I knew it! I predicted you would vote Tory some point in your life, and you are leaving that option open.
    I've already voted for them
    ...one Thursday in 1997 pissed as a newt I walked into voting booth and thought 'Portillo' that's a nice name....
    Probably the inevitable after effects of drinking and your subconscious linking Portillo with Portaloo guiding you to tick that box?

    I assume Portillo would be the PB rail enthusiasts' (of which there seem quite a few) choice for PM, even now?
    To me Portillo and co just seem competent. Don't like what they stood for or do stand for but they're not idiots.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,147

    ...

    Leon said:

    So it turns out there is a local posh-ish canteen which will deliver to my hotel a superb prawn laksa, Kyoto seaweed salad, Taiwanese hot soup dumplings and tremendous won ton, for £12. Door to hotel door in 35 minutes, after a couple of clicks on an iPhone: ie the perfect amount of time to have two G&Ts on the moonlit rooftop bar then go collect your food

    Bangkok in Jan-Feb is, verily, a kind of earthly paradise

    And now I get to watch “The Boys” with a nice bottle of 19 crimes. This, here, is mmmmmmmBOP

    Hoping 'The Boys' is a TV programme, though I suppose when in Bangkok...
    It is indeed a tv drama. It’s brilliant. It’s about superheroes turned corporate and gone bad

    The anti-Trumpite satire is occasionally overdone and the sizzling script can lapse into over-writing, and the hero Brit is obviously an Aussie (ie an Aussie doing cockney) but it’s also great fun. Hideously violent but in a cartoon way. Well worth a watch
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    CorrectHorseBattery3CorrectHorseBattery3 Posts: 2,757
    edited February 2023

    Lee Anderson

    Currygate (yet again)

    The desperation is palpable.

    I'm no fan of this iteration of the Conservative Party, nor of Boris Johnson - who I was criticising whilst many on here were still proclaiming him as the next Jesus. I have zero view on Lee Anderson, as I've not been following it. I've also repeatedly said we need a GE soon.

    Trying to insinuate that my position on Starmer's stupidity over the curry event is some sort of party-political hit job is way off base. Starmer was wrong to do it, and it's interesting for a reason: it has implications for the sort of PM he'll be.
    You are weirdly obsessed with currygate.

    The cops investigated. No case to answer. Not guilty. Move on.
    I love the way brainless Labourites respond to the first mention of something by someone with accusations of obsession. I've answered that below, but I might suggest you up your game a little.

    let me ask a little question; a useful one in many circumstances. How would you have responded if it was the other way around? If it had been a Conservative LOTO in the same situation? Come now, be honest.
    Well the Police would have done an investigation and I'd have accepted the results of it. So is your point that the Police were wrong? You can complain to them if you have new evidence.

    Recall Starmer was investigated twice, the second time clearly because of political interference. They could not find anything either time. He is clean.
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    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,432

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Hi @CorrectHorseBattery3 . How are you doing ? Any progress on the running ? I always do a couple of miles before a work from home day. Love it.

    Hi @Taz thanks for checking in. Still keeping the mental health good, glad the spring is coming and it is warming up. Summer is just around the corner!

    Running wise I am up to three times a week, only a few minutes of running each time but I am building it up. I am hoping fingers crossed I will be able to run my first 5K after many, many months, next month.

    How are you?
    Good thanks.

    Always feel good when the weather is on the turn and the nights brighten 😀

    We are also filling in our diary and got a few nice weekends booked.

    I am hoping to do the local 5K to me in March. I only got into running thanks to my wife and Jo Wiley on Couch to 5K
    I did Couch to 5K for the same reason!!! It's genuinely one of the best things the BBC has done in the last decade, no doubt about it.

    Parkrun is fantastic, I do miss it.
    My brother in law couch to 5kayed his way up to multiple marathons (I can still whoop his ass onver a half marathon, but I've never done further than that, he's training for marathon number 3, so full respect from me)
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586
    I see the Betfair exchange market is up for the F1 championship.
    Laid Verstappen at evens, which I think is way too short before we've seen any of the cars turn a wheel.

    Anyone agree ?
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,932

    Taz said:

    If the Tories offer a referendum on the death penalty I will never vote for them in my life. It is sickening.

    It's an easy win for 30p Lee, Horse. His profile has gone through the roof in the last 48 hours.

    Forget the morality of hanging Stefan Kishko, the Birmingham 6, the Guildford 4, the Bridgewater 4, the Cardiff 3 and Judith Ward. Lee knows only the traitorous wokerati would disagree with hanging Ian Huntley.

    What Lee hasn't twigged he is just a useful idiot, a thick peasant populist clown that patrician Conservative MPs quietly revulsed by his attitudes, are laughing at behind his back. I am not laughing, I believe him to be very dangerous.
    It’s an awful debate to get dragged into on social media because the moment you say you don’t agree with hanging Ian Huntley you are automatically assumed by a chunk of people to support him.

    Surely Life without parole, especially for a younger person, is a far greater punishment than the death penalty anyway.
    Also much cheaper.

    Let these people rot in prison. I am not a Christian but a life can never be worth another.
    Expensive though , just throw them in a mincer.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,836

    If the Tories offer a referendum on the death penalty I will never vote for them in my life. It is sickening.

    Are there any circumstances in which you would vote Conservative, otherwise?
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,417
    edited February 2023
    Speaking of rail enthusiam, I'm watching through 'Walking Britain's Lost Railways' on the odd occasion at the moment; it's a nice programme to have on in the background.

    I am struck by the total spaghetti ball of railways that Britain used to be. Which surely means that releasing capacity on the WCML (if it is an issue of such national import that it's worth rinsing the nation for) could have been achieved more easily by reviving some of the other lines that criss-crossed the country. We know which lines worked and were busy, we know why, the ground work is mostly still there and not much has been built over the top since.
This discussion has been closed.