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What we need are Tory by-election defences – politicalbetting.com

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  • Dan’s on another case:

    Labour MP Ian Lavery is refusing to confirm he paid tax on £140k of unexplained payments he received.

    https://twitter.com/DanNeidle/status/1624028088022564866
  • Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    The Lib Dems are also staring at a REALLY bad general election, when they would normally hope to benefit from Tory travails

    I do not understand their inertia. The tactical move for them is obvious. Come out, loud and proud, as the party of Rejoin the EU immediately (after another referendum). There are enough hardcore Remoaners in southern England and the like to win them quite a few seats, indeed Remoaners tempted by Starmer might vote tactically for the LDs in the hope that they can pressure him towards Rejoin in a hung parliament

    What the F are they playing at? This would also bring them much needed attention

    It is amazing to me that no UK party is going out there swinging for the Rejoin vote, when the polls are clearly showing Brexit remorse

    That's an interesting idea but we need to get more precise with the language on this now. After nearly 7 years you can't be both a Remoaner and a Rejoiner. A Remoaner is passive, pissed off, backwards looking; a Rejoiner is head up, future facing, active.

    I avoid analogies as a rule, they're overdone in punditry and can easily slide into a silliness that helps no-one (eg Brexit is like changing a nappy), but a good way to illustrate what I mean here is to imagine your dog has shat on the carpet.

    In which case you can (i) sit there looking at it, grumbling at the mess, castigating the dog and yourself for failing to train it properly; or (ii) you can screw that for a game of soldiers and go, "right, let's get this cleared up!" and then think about getting a goldfish.

    Option (i) is Remoaning. Option (ii) is the can-do spirit of Rejoin.

    I'm a Remoaner btw. I'm still slumped in my chair gazing at the steaming pile of doo doo, chuntering how it shouldn't have happened, "why oh why oh why", unable (yet) to get up and do anything about it. But one day (and I'll let everyone know when this happens) I'll snap out of this and then I'll be a Remoaner no more. I'll be a Rejoiner.
    The thing is you and I didn't want the dog in the first place. Indeed, we raised some questions of what would happen to the cream carpets and the reasonably nice furniture. But we were overruled by our other half and their parents. This sort of thing happens, and is one of the spices of life. But they're not cleaning the mess up either, and sometimes hint that it's our fault for not training the dog properly.

    And the worst of it? It's getting to the point where we probably could phone up Battersea Dog's Home and ask them to take Nigel the Bulldog away. But we'd feel like utter scumbags for doing that. At least today we would...
    ‘you and I didn’t want the dog in the first place’

    =

    ‘These people never wanted to be parents in the first place”

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-brexit-is-just-like-having-a-baby/

    Brexit = Baby remains the greatest analogy in the history of PB - maybe in the history of humanity. We can only hope that one day the immortal @SeanT might one day *Rejoin* pb

    The analogy falls down because having a baby isn't that difficult and is a source of joy and fulfillment to the parents from day one. I'd say that Brexit is more like having a shit, one that turns out to be an unflushable turd. All that strain, followed by a bad smell and lingering embarrassment.
  • I should be the ideal young Tory voter.

    Own a house, work in the private sector, earn very well and I am a hard worker.

    Yet the Tories continue to drift away from me. One day this will cause them a lot of problems, that day will yet come.

    I'm never going to be a Tory, but working in the financial sector I am surrounded by people who are, who used to be or who should be (and it may surprise some to learn that I get on with them very well). From talking to them it's clear that the Tories have lost much of their natural support in the last few years. It's similar to what one hears on here, but from people who are much less politically engaged, and thus rather more representative of the population a whole.
    Brexit started it off and the Tories have continued destroying all the work Cameron did.

    I know people think Johnson's party was more "in touch" but their obsession with trans people, the EU and immigrants just doesn't resonate with my/our folk. They're losing them by going on about this nonsense. And they've now shredded their economic credentials too.

    The Tory Party will rediscover Cameron/Blair at some point. But they are going to have to lose and lose big - and long term that is what is needed. It saved Labour.
    That is unmitigated nonsense. Nobody was obsessed with, or gave a toss about (other than to wish them well, and freedom from persecution) trans people. The right's position is admirably set out in the visual posted by Carlotta at 2.20pm below. This infuriating reasonableness deprived the left of their one object in life, to find something to go WAAAAH about, and go WAAAAH about it, so they had to move the goalposts again and again. Your "obsession" is actually a belief that on the whole it is better for male rapists with functional dicks to be in womens' prisons, and unfair for female weightlifters to have to compete against heavily bearded 6'4" competitors with cocks and balls, called Sheila.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,898

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    The Lib Dems are also staring at a REALLY bad general election, when they would normally hope to benefit from Tory travails

    I do not understand their inertia. The tactical move for them is obvious. Come out, loud and proud, as the party of Rejoin the EU immediately (after another referendum). There are enough hardcore Remoaners in southern England and the like to win them quite a few seats, indeed Remoaners tempted by Starmer might vote tactically for the LDs in the hope that they can pressure him towards Rejoin in a hung parliament

    What the F are they playing at? This would also bring them much needed attention

    It is amazing to me that no UK party is going out there swinging for the Rejoin vote, when the polls are clearly showing Brexit remorse

    That's an interesting idea but we need to get more precise with the language on this now. After nearly 7 years you can't be both a Remoaner and a Rejoiner. A Remoaner is passive, pissed off, backwards looking; a Rejoiner is head up, future facing, active.

    I avoid analogies as a rule, they're overdone in punditry and can easily slide into a silliness that helps no-one (eg Brexit is like changing a nappy), but a good way to illustrate what I mean here is to imagine your dog has shat on the carpet.

    In which case you can (i) sit there looking at it, grumbling at the mess, castigating the dog and yourself for failing to train it properly; or (ii) you can screw that for a game of soldiers and go, "right, let's get this cleared up!" and then think about getting a goldfish.

    Option (i) is Remoaning. Option (ii) is the can-do spirit of Rejoin.

    I'm a Remoaner btw. I'm still slumped in my chair gazing at the steaming pile of doo doo, chuntering how it shouldn't have happened, "why oh why oh why", unable (yet) to get up and do anything about it. But one day (and I'll let everyone know when this happens) I'll snap out of this and then I'll be a Remoaner no more. I'll be a Rejoiner.
    The thing is you and I didn't want the dog in the first place. Indeed, we raised some questions of what would happen to the cream carpets and the reasonably nice furniture. But we were overruled by our other half and their parents. This sort of thing happens, and is one of the spices of life. But they're not cleaning the mess up either, and sometimes hint that it's our fault for not training the dog properly.

    And the worst of it? It's getting to the point where we probably could phone up Battersea Dog's Home and ask them to take Nigel the Bulldog away. But we'd feel like utter scumbags for doing that. At least today we would...
    ‘you and I didn’t want the dog in the first place’

    =

    ‘These people never wanted to be parents in the first place”

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-brexit-is-just-like-having-a-baby/

    Brexit = Baby remains the greatest analogy in the history of PB - maybe in the history of humanity. We can only hope that one day the immortal @SeanT might one day *Rejoin* pb

    The analogy falls down because having a baby isn't that difficult and is a source of joy and fulfillment to the parents from day one. I'd say that Brexit is more like having a shit, one that turns out to be an unflushable turd. All that strain, followed by a bad smell and lingering embarrassment.
    I hope you're now feeling better.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,060

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Hi @CorrectHorseBattery3 . How are you doing ? Any progress on the running ? I always do a couple of miles before a work from home day. Love it.

    Hi @Taz thanks for checking in. Still keeping the mental health good, glad the spring is coming and it is warming up. Summer is just around the corner!

    Running wise I am up to three times a week, only a few minutes of running each time but I am building it up. I am hoping fingers crossed I will be able to run my first 5K after many, many months, next month.

    How are you?
    Good thanks.

    Always feel good when the weather is on the turn and the nights brighten 😀

    We are also filling in our diary and got a few nice weekends booked.

    I am hoping to do the local 5K to me in March. I only got into running thanks to my wife and Jo Wiley on Couch to 5K
    I did Couch to 5K for the same reason!!! It's genuinely one of the best things the BBC has done in the last decade, no doubt about it.

    One of the greatest senses of achievement I have felt was that first run when I managed 90 seconds running non stop. Never thought I’d be able to do it. Hadn’t run since I was at school.

    Now I’d think nothing of a 45 minute run.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,898

    I should be the ideal young Tory voter.

    Own a house, work in the private sector, earn very well and I am a hard worker.

    Yet the Tories continue to drift away from me. One day this will cause them a lot of problems, that day will yet come.

    I'm never going to be a Tory, but working in the financial sector I am surrounded by people who are, who used to be or who should be (and it may surprise some to learn that I get on with them very well). From talking to them it's clear that the Tories have lost much of their natural support in the last few years. It's similar to what one hears on here, but from people who are much less politically engaged, and thus rather more representative of the population a whole.
    Brexit started it off and the Tories have continued destroying all the work Cameron did.

    I know people think Johnson's party was more "in touch" but their obsession with trans people, the EU and immigrants just doesn't resonate with my/our folk. They're losing them by going on about this nonsense. And they've now shredded their economic credentials too.

    The Tory Party will rediscover Cameron/Blair at some point. But they are going to have to lose and lose big - and long term that is what is needed. It saved Labour.
    That is unmitigated nonsense. Nobody was obsessed with, or gave a toss about (other than to wish them well, and freedom from persecution) trans people. The right's position is admirably set out in the visual posted by Carlotta at 2.20pm below. This infuriating reasonableness deprived the left of their one object in life, to find something to go WAAAAH about, and go WAAAAH about it, so they had to move the goalposts again and again. Your "obsession" is actually a belief that on the whole it is better for male rapists with functional dicks to be in womens' prisons, and unfair for female weightlifters to have to compete against heavily bearded 6'4" competitors with cocks and balls, called Sheila.
    Why would someone call their balls Sheila?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,939

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    The Lib Dems are also staring at a REALLY bad general election, when they would normally hope to benefit from Tory travails

    I do not understand their inertia. The tactical move for them is obvious. Come out, loud and proud, as the party of Rejoin the EU immediately (after another referendum). There are enough hardcore Remoaners in southern England and the like to win them quite a few seats, indeed Remoaners tempted by Starmer might vote tactically for the LDs in the hope that they can pressure him towards Rejoin in a hung parliament

    What the F are they playing at? This would also bring them much needed attention

    It is amazing to me that no UK party is going out there swinging for the Rejoin vote, when the polls are clearly showing Brexit remorse

    That's an interesting idea but we need to get more precise with the language on this now. After nearly 7 years you can't be both a Remoaner and a Rejoiner. A Remoaner is passive, pissed off, backwards looking; a Rejoiner is head up, future facing, active.

    I avoid analogies as a rule, they're overdone in punditry and can easily slide into a silliness that helps no-one (eg Brexit is like changing a nappy), but a good way to illustrate what I mean here is to imagine your dog has shat on the carpet.

    In which case you can (i) sit there looking at it, grumbling at the mess, castigating the dog and yourself for failing to train it properly; or (ii) you can screw that for a game of soldiers and go, "right, let's get this cleared up!" and then think about getting a goldfish.

    Option (i) is Remoaning. Option (ii) is the can-do spirit of Rejoin.

    I'm a Remoaner btw. I'm still slumped in my chair gazing at the steaming pile of doo doo, chuntering how it shouldn't have happened, "why oh why oh why", unable (yet) to get up and do anything about it. But one day (and I'll let everyone know when this happens) I'll snap out of this and then I'll be a Remoaner no more. I'll be a Rejoiner.
    The thing is you and I didn't want the dog in the first place. Indeed, we raised some questions of what would happen to the cream carpets and the reasonably nice furniture. But we were overruled by our other half and their parents. This sort of thing happens, and is one of the spices of life. But they're not cleaning the mess up either, and sometimes hint that it's our fault for not training the dog properly.

    And the worst of it? It's getting to the point where we probably could phone up Battersea Dog's Home and ask them to take Nigel the Bulldog away. But we'd feel like utter scumbags for doing that. At least today we would...
    ‘you and I didn’t want the dog in the first place’

    =

    ‘These people never wanted to be parents in the first place”

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-brexit-is-just-like-having-a-baby/

    Brexit = Baby remains the greatest analogy in the history of PB - maybe in the history of humanity. We can only hope that one day the immortal @SeanT might one day *Rejoin* pb

    The analogy falls down because having a baby isn't that difficult and is a source of joy and fulfillment to the parents from day one. I'd say that Brexit is more like having a shit, one that turns out to be an unflushable turd. All that strain, followed by a bad smell and lingering embarrassment.
    Post-natal depression is not uncommon, and can be particularly difficult to deal with because you're supposed to be happy about having a baby.

    Will the Brexit baby blues pass?
  • glwglw Posts: 9,956
  • Singapore dropping COVID restrictions:

    Public spaces and services
    Face masks

    From 13 February 2023 face masks are no longer required on public transport and are only compulsory for visitors, staff and patients in healthcare and residential care settings, where there is physical interaction with patients.

    Vaccination status
    From 13 February 2023 COVID-19 vaccination status will no longer be required to be shown for any purpose.

    Quarantine and home recovery
    If you test positive for COVID-19, you are advised to recover at home.


    https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/singapore/coronavirus
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,203
    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:

    If the Tories offer a referendum on the death penalty I will never vote for them in my life. It is sickening.

    It's an easy win for 30p Lee, Horse. His profile has gone through the roof in the last 48 hours.

    Forget the morality of hanging Stefan Kishko, the Birmingham 6, the Guildford 4, the Bridgewater 4, the Cardiff 3 and Judith Ward. Lee knows only the traitorous wokerati would disagree with hanging Ian Huntley.

    What Lee hasn't twigged he is just a useful idiot, a thick peasant populist clown that patrician Conservative MPs quietly revulsed by his attitudes, are laughing at behind his back. I am not laughing, I believe him to be very dangerous.
    It’s an awful debate to get dragged into on social media because the moment you say you don’t agree with hanging Ian Huntley you are automatically assumed by a chunk of people to support him.

    Surely Life without parole, especially for a younger person, is a far greater punishment than the death penalty anyway.
    Also much cheaper.

    Let these people rot in prison. I am not a Christian but a life can never be worth another.
    Expensive though , just throw them in a mincer.
    Actually, life means life might well be cheaper.

    The American system - which still ends up with a non-trivial number of wrongfully executed people - takes zillions and years to actually execute people.

    Simply putting them in a prison cell for x years would cost less.
  • I should be the ideal young Tory voter.

    Own a house, work in the private sector, earn very well and I am a hard worker.

    Yet the Tories continue to drift away from me. One day this will cause them a lot of problems, that day will yet come.

    I'm never going to be a Tory, but working in the financial sector I am surrounded by people who are, who used to be or who should be (and it may surprise some to learn that I get on with them very well). From talking to them it's clear that the Tories have lost much of their natural support in the last few years. It's similar to what one hears on here, but from people who are much less politically engaged, and thus rather more representative of the population a whole.
    Brexit started it off and the Tories have continued destroying all the work Cameron did.

    I know people think Johnson's party was more "in touch" but their obsession with trans people, the EU and immigrants just doesn't resonate with my/our folk. They're losing them by going on about this nonsense. And they've now shredded their economic credentials too.

    The Tory Party will rediscover Cameron/Blair at some point. But they are going to have to lose and lose big - and long term that is what is needed. It saved Labour.
    That is unmitigated nonsense. Nobody was obsessed with, or gave a toss about (other than to wish them well, and freedom from persecution) trans people. The right's position is admirably set out in the visual posted by Carlotta at 2.20pm below. This infuriating reasonableness deprived the left of their one object in life, to find something to go WAAAAH about, and go WAAAAH about it, so they had to move the goalposts again and again. Your "obsession" is actually a belief that on the whole it is better for male rapists with functional dicks to be in womens' prisons, and unfair for female weightlifters to have to compete against heavily bearded 6'4" competitors with cocks and balls, called Sheila.
    Why would someone call their balls Sheila?
    Trying to minimise them.

    Mine are called Goliath and Godzilla.
  • Mr. B, I probably agree but would be loath to lock up money for that long, at those odds.

    Red Bull should be favourites, and Verstappen even more so. Ferrari appeared to go backwards but Mercedes made huge gains last season. The closeness of the Russell-Hamilton pairing is a mixed bag for the Mercs as they stand a much better Constructors' chance but Verstappen will be favoured from day 1 at Red Bull.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,943
    edited February 2023
    ...

    Dan’s on another case:

    Labour MP Ian Lavery is refusing to confirm he paid tax on £140k of unexplained payments he received.

    https://twitter.com/DanNeidle/status/1624028088022564866

    Oh man! If true, it couldn't have happened to a more worthy MP. Thoughts and prayers.

    And I had clearly wrongly assumed Dan had a case against an almost equally repellent pantomime "Dame". Oh yes I did!

    Edit: Maybe a loan, guaranteed by a Canadian cousin?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    The Lib Dems are also staring at a REALLY bad general election, when they would normally hope to benefit from Tory travails

    I do not understand their inertia. The tactical move for them is obvious. Come out, loud and proud, as the party of Rejoin the EU immediately (after another referendum). There are enough hardcore Remoaners in southern England and the like to win them quite a few seats, indeed Remoaners tempted by Starmer might vote tactically for the LDs in the hope that they can pressure him towards Rejoin in a hung parliament

    What the F are they playing at? This would also bring them much needed attention

    It is amazing to me that no UK party is going out there swinging for the Rejoin vote, when the polls are clearly showing Brexit remorse

    That's an interesting idea but we need to get more precise with the language on this now. After nearly 7 years you can't be both a Remoaner and a Rejoiner. A Remoaner is passive, pissed off, backwards looking; a Rejoiner is head up, future facing, active.

    I avoid analogies as a rule, they're overdone in punditry and can easily slide into a silliness that helps no-one (eg Brexit is like changing a nappy), but a good way to illustrate what I mean here is to imagine your dog has shat on the carpet.

    In which case you can (i) sit there looking at it, grumbling at the mess, castigating the dog and yourself for failing to train it properly; or (ii) you can screw that for a game of soldiers and go, "right, let's get this cleared up!" and then think about getting a goldfish.

    Option (i) is Remoaning. Option (ii) is the can-do spirit of Rejoin.

    I'm a Remoaner btw. I'm still slumped in my chair gazing at the steaming pile of doo doo, chuntering how it shouldn't have happened, "why oh why oh why", unable (yet) to get up and do anything about it. But one day (and I'll let everyone know when this happens) I'll snap out of this and then I'll be a Remoaner no more. I'll be a Rejoiner.
    The thing is you and I didn't want the dog in the first place. Indeed, we raised some questions of what would happen to the cream carpets and the reasonably nice furniture. But we were overruled by our other half and their parents. This sort of thing happens, and is one of the spices of life. But they're not cleaning the mess up either, and sometimes hint that it's our fault for not training the dog properly.

    And the worst of it? It's getting to the point where we probably could phone up Battersea Dog's Home and ask them to take Nigel the Bulldog away. But we'd feel like utter scumbags for doing that. At least today we would...
    ‘you and I didn’t want the dog in the first place’

    =

    ‘These people never wanted to be parents in the first place”

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-brexit-is-just-like-having-a-baby/

    Brexit = Baby remains the greatest analogy in the history of PB - maybe in the history of humanity. We can only hope that one day the immortal @SeanT might one day *Rejoin* pb

    The analogy falls down because having a baby isn't that difficult and is a source of joy and fulfillment to the parents from day one. I'd say that Brexit is more like having a shit, one that turns out to be an unflushable turd. All that strain, followed by a bad smell and lingering embarrassment.
    This is why, like all of us, you don’t write for the most prestigious magazine in the world

  • Leon said:

    The Lib Dems are also staring at a REALLY bad general election, when they would normally hope to benefit from Tory travails

    I do not understand their inertia. The tactical move for them is obvious. Come out, loud and proud, as the party of Rejoin the EU immediately (after another referendum). There are enough hardcore Remoaners in southern England and the like to win them quite a few seats, indeed Remoaners tempted by Starmer might vote tactically for the LDs in the hope that they can pressure him towards Rejoin in a hung parliament

    What the F are they playing at? This would also bring them much needed attention

    It is amazing to me that no UK party is going out there swinging for the Rejoin vote, when the polls are clearly showing Brexit remorse

    I suspect all politicians are essentially out of touch, and it takes them a year or two to catch up with the zeitgeist. If the Tories take an absolute hammering at the next election, then the case against Brexit will be largely inarguable, so the Lib Dems will be more confident and relaxed about showing their true colours. It'll be interesting to see what the Tories do in that scenario. They could go all Tony Benn and blame their plight on not being Brexity enough, or they could give Brexit up as a bad job and begin a different journey. Tories tend to be hungrier for power and less sentimental, so will probably choose the latter.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,310
    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:

    If the Tories offer a referendum on the death penalty I will never vote for them in my life. It is sickening.

    It's an easy win for 30p Lee, Horse. His profile has gone through the roof in the last 48 hours.

    Forget the morality of hanging Stefan Kishko, the Birmingham 6, the Guildford 4, the Bridgewater 4, the Cardiff 3 and Judith Ward. Lee knows only the traitorous wokerati would disagree with hanging Ian Huntley.

    What Lee hasn't twigged he is just a useful idiot, a thick peasant populist clown that patrician Conservative MPs quietly revulsed by his attitudes, are laughing at behind his back. I am not laughing, I believe him to be very dangerous.
    It’s an awful debate to get dragged into on social media because the moment you say you don’t agree with hanging Ian Huntley you are automatically assumed by a chunk of people to support him.

    Surely Life without parole, especially for a younger person, is a far greater punishment than the death penalty anyway.
    Also much cheaper.

    Let these people rot in prison. I am not a Christian but a life can never be worth another.
    Expensive though, just throw them in a mincer.
    Before or after trial ?

    Much of the evidence from death penalty jurisdictions, where there's a realistic right to fair trials, suggests that executing prisoners actually costs more than locking them up for life.

    Committed death penalty advocates tend to address this by suggesting that rights of appeal be limited.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,027
    Sean_F said:

    If the Tories offer a referendum on the death penalty I will never vote for them in my life. It is sickening.

    Are there any circumstances in which you would vote Conservative, otherwise?
    If the sun rises in the west? Which is about as likely as a referendum on the death penalty...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,440
    edited February 2023

    Speaking of rail enthusiam, I'm watching through 'Walking Britain's Lost Railways' on the odd occasion at the moment; it's a nice programme to have on in the background.

    I am struck by the total spaghetti ball of railways that Britain used to be. Which surely means that releasing capacity on the WCML (if it is an issue of such national import that it's worth rinsing the nation for) could have been achieved more easily by reviving some of the other lines that criss-crossed the country. We know which lines worked and were busy, we know why, the ground work is mostly still there and not much has been built over the top since.

    Hmm. Not that I disagree in sentiment at all, but if 5% has been built over the top then that is a real bugger.

    Have a look at the route of the Great Central Railway, built to *Continental* loading gauge (in plain English, that means it could take big fat furrin trains straight from the Channel Tunnel more or less, and was intended to connect that to Manchester and Sheffield. Yes, more than a century ago.

    Massive earthworks and f***-you viaducts in engineering black brick - through Rugby and Leicester. Now partly used for the M1 (I think) and almost completely demolished through Leicester. Reinstating that would be a screaming horror film of the March of the Nimbies perhaps even compared with HS2, even if the nice chaps who run steam trains along 10 miles of it could be persuaded to sell up.

    https://www.railscot.co.uk/London_Extension/index.php

    Edit: Used to have huge viaducts and a raised station in Leicester above the streets. Now, not so mucn viaduct, and the station is the industrial estate in this pic

    https://www.google.com/maps/@52.637407,-1.1417154,542m/data=!3m1!1e3

    OTOH the Scots managed to reinstate the [edit] northern part of the line between Edinburgh and Carlisle fairly well, so it is possible.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,898

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    The Lib Dems are also staring at a REALLY bad general election, when they would normally hope to benefit from Tory travails

    I do not understand their inertia. The tactical move for them is obvious. Come out, loud and proud, as the party of Rejoin the EU immediately (after another referendum). There are enough hardcore Remoaners in southern England and the like to win them quite a few seats, indeed Remoaners tempted by Starmer might vote tactically for the LDs in the hope that they can pressure him towards Rejoin in a hung parliament

    What the F are they playing at? This would also bring them much needed attention

    It is amazing to me that no UK party is going out there swinging for the Rejoin vote, when the polls are clearly showing Brexit remorse

    That's an interesting idea but we need to get more precise with the language on this now. After nearly 7 years you can't be both a Remoaner and a Rejoiner. A Remoaner is passive, pissed off, backwards looking; a Rejoiner is head up, future facing, active.

    I avoid analogies as a rule, they're overdone in punditry and can easily slide into a silliness that helps no-one (eg Brexit is like changing a nappy), but a good way to illustrate what I mean here is to imagine your dog has shat on the carpet.

    In which case you can (i) sit there looking at it, grumbling at the mess, castigating the dog and yourself for failing to train it properly; or (ii) you can screw that for a game of soldiers and go, "right, let's get this cleared up!" and then think about getting a goldfish.

    Option (i) is Remoaning. Option (ii) is the can-do spirit of Rejoin.

    I'm a Remoaner btw. I'm still slumped in my chair gazing at the steaming pile of doo doo, chuntering how it shouldn't have happened, "why oh why oh why", unable (yet) to get up and do anything about it. But one day (and I'll let everyone know when this happens) I'll snap out of this and then I'll be a Remoaner no more. I'll be a Rejoiner.
    The thing is you and I didn't want the dog in the first place. Indeed, we raised some questions of what would happen to the cream carpets and the reasonably nice furniture. But we were overruled by our other half and their parents. This sort of thing happens, and is one of the spices of life. But they're not cleaning the mess up either, and sometimes hint that it's our fault for not training the dog properly.

    And the worst of it? It's getting to the point where we probably could phone up Battersea Dog's Home and ask them to take Nigel the Bulldog away. But we'd feel like utter scumbags for doing that. At least today we would...
    ‘you and I didn’t want the dog in the first place’

    =

    ‘These people never wanted to be parents in the first place”

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-brexit-is-just-like-having-a-baby/

    Brexit = Baby remains the greatest analogy in the history of PB - maybe in the history of humanity. We can only hope that one day the immortal @SeanT might one day *Rejoin* pb

    The analogy falls down because having a baby isn't that difficult and is a source of joy and fulfillment to the parents from day one. I'd say that Brexit is more like having a shit, one that turns out to be an unflushable turd. All that strain, followed by a bad smell and lingering embarrassment.
    Post-natal depression is not uncommon, and can be particularly difficult to deal with because you're supposed to be happy about having a baby.

    Will the Brexit baby blues pass?
    I'd say they lifted when it became clear we'd get vaccinated before most of Europe. If we just stick at steadily choosing to do the right thing for the UK, and diverging sensibly where necessary, those types of advantages will occur more frequently. It seems to me actually very hard work to be as shit at being out of the EU as we are at the moment.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,873
    "Ukraine’s wartime leader Volodymyr Zelensky has now been bestowed with France’s highest medal of honour. But there’s a problem: Russian President Vladimir Putin has the same medal."

    https://www.france24.com/en/france/20230210-macron-considers-stripping-putin-of-french-legion-of-honour-medal
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,515

    Speaking of rail enthusiam, I'm watching through 'Walking Britain's Lost Railways' on the odd occasion at the moment; it's a nice programme to have on in the background.

    I am struck by the total spaghetti ball of railways that Britain used to be. Which surely means that releasing capacity on the WCML (if it is an issue of such national import that it's worth rinsing the nation for) could have been achieved more easily by reviving some of the other lines that criss-crossed the country. We know which lines worked and were busy, we know why, the ground work is mostly still there and not much has been built over the top since.

    That's a good idea, but reopenings are massively complex and expensive.

    Let's look at one example: March to Spalding. This 20-mile line only closed in 1982 to save £4 million in track renewel costs, and runs mainly across farmland. Nowadays it would prove to be a massively useful diversionary route for freight heading from the east coast ports to the north, avoiding Peterborough and busy sections of the ECML. I cannot remember the latest costs for the project, but they were eye-wateringly large.

    Or take March to Wisbech. An 8-mile line that yet again runs across flat Fenland, and was used for freight until 2000. The reopening cost for passengers is put at £200 million, with hundreds of thousands being spent just on studies.

    Of in another area, the Portishead Branch near Bristol. Or the Blethcley to Oxford line, which is currently being rebuilt at massive cost.

    It's not just a case of slapping down new sleepers and rails, as preservation societies would. Everything needs looking at, and bridges often need rebuilding or strengthening - witness the recent work on the Bletchley Flyover.

    Then there's the question of whether reopenings would actually reduce demand on the WCML: the old Great Central Railway is a non-starter for a number of very good reasons.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,440

    Speaking of rail enthusiam, I'm watching through 'Walking Britain's Lost Railways' on the odd occasion at the moment; it's a nice programme to have on in the background.

    I am struck by the total spaghetti ball of railways that Britain used to be. Which surely means that releasing capacity on the WCML (if it is an issue of such national import that it's worth rinsing the nation for) could have been achieved more easily by reviving some of the other lines that criss-crossed the country. We know which lines worked and were busy, we know why, the ground work is mostly still there and not much has been built over the top since.

    That's a good idea, but reopenings are massively complex and expensive.

    Let's look at one example: March to Spalding. This 20-mile line only closed in 1982 to save £4 million in track renewel costs, and runs mainly across farmland. Nowadays it would prove to be a massively useful diversionary route for freight heading from the east coast ports to the north, avoiding Peterborough and busy sections of the ECML. I cannot remember the latest costs for the project, but they were eye-wateringly large.

    Or take March to Wisbech. An 8-mile line that yet again runs across flat Fenland, and was used for freight until 2000. The reopening cost for passengers is put at £200 million, with hundreds of thousands being spent just on studies.

    Of in another area, the Portishead Branch near Bristol. Or the Blethcley to Oxford line, which is currently being rebuilt at massive cost.

    It's not just a case of slapping down new sleepers and rails, as preservation societies would. Everything needs looking at, and bridges often need rebuilding or strengthening - witness the recent work on the Bletchley Flyover.

    Then there's the question of whether reopenings would actually reduce demand on the WCML: the old Great Central Railway is a non-starter for a number of very good reasons.
    Wasn't the BR property board made to sell off its properties, or was it allowed to keep a strategic element?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,943
    edited February 2023
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    The Lib Dems are also staring at a REALLY bad general election, when they would normally hope to benefit from Tory travails

    I do not understand their inertia. The tactical move for them is obvious. Come out, loud and proud, as the party of Rejoin the EU immediately (after another referendum). There are enough hardcore Remoaners in southern England and the like to win them quite a few seats, indeed Remoaners tempted by Starmer might vote tactically for the LDs in the hope that they can pressure him towards Rejoin in a hung parliament

    What the F are they playing at? This would also bring them much needed attention

    It is amazing to me that no UK party is going out there swinging for the Rejoin vote, when the polls are clearly showing Brexit remorse

    That's an interesting idea but we need to get more precise with the language on this now. After nearly 7 years you can't be both a Remoaner and a Rejoiner. A Remoaner is passive, pissed off, backwards looking; a Rejoiner is head up, future facing, active.

    I avoid analogies as a rule, they're overdone in punditry and can easily slide into a silliness that helps no-one (eg Brexit is like changing a nappy), but a good way to illustrate what I mean here is to imagine your dog has shat on the carpet.

    In which case you can (i) sit there looking at it, grumbling at the mess, castigating the dog and yourself for failing to train it properly; or (ii) you can screw that for a game of soldiers and go, "right, let's get this cleared up!" and then think about getting a goldfish.

    Option (i) is Remoaning. Option (ii) is the can-do spirit of Rejoin.

    I'm a Remoaner btw. I'm still slumped in my chair gazing at the steaming pile of doo doo, chuntering how it shouldn't have happened, "why oh why oh why", unable (yet) to get up and do anything about it. But one day (and I'll let everyone know when this happens) I'll snap out of this and then I'll be a Remoaner no more. I'll be a Rejoiner.
    The thing is you and I didn't want the dog in the first place. Indeed, we raised some questions of what would happen to the cream carpets and the reasonably nice furniture. But we were overruled by our other half and their parents. This sort of thing happens, and is one of the spices of life. But they're not cleaning the mess up either, and sometimes hint that it's our fault for not training the dog properly.

    And the worst of it? It's getting to the point where we probably could phone up Battersea Dog's Home and ask them to take Nigel the Bulldog away. But we'd feel like utter scumbags for doing that. At least today we would...
    ‘you and I didn’t want the dog in the first place’

    =

    ‘These people never wanted to be parents in the first place”

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-brexit-is-just-like-having-a-baby/

    Brexit = Baby remains the greatest analogy in the history of PB - maybe in the history of humanity. We can only hope that one day the immortal @SeanT might one day *Rejoin* pb

    The analogy falls down because having a baby isn't that difficult and is a source of joy and fulfillment to the parents from day one. I'd say that Brexit is more like having a shit, one that turns out to be an unflushable turd. All that strain, followed by a bad smell and lingering embarrassment.
    This is why, like all of us, you don’t write for the most prestigious magazine in the world

    Can you link to one of Sean's New Yorker articles please?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,699

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    The Lib Dems are also staring at a REALLY bad general election, when they would normally hope to benefit from Tory travails

    I do not understand their inertia. The tactical move for them is obvious. Come out, loud and proud, as the party of Rejoin the EU immediately (after another referendum). There are enough hardcore Remoaners in southern England and the like to win them quite a few seats, indeed Remoaners tempted by Starmer might vote tactically for the LDs in the hope that they can pressure him towards Rejoin in a hung parliament

    What the F are they playing at? This would also bring them much needed attention

    It is amazing to me that no UK party is going out there swinging for the Rejoin vote, when the polls are clearly showing Brexit remorse

    That's an interesting idea but we need to get more precise with the language on this now. After nearly 7 years you can't be both a Remoaner and a Rejoiner. A Remoaner is passive, pissed off, backwards looking; a Rejoiner is head up, future facing, active.

    I avoid analogies as a rule, they're overdone in punditry and can easily slide into a silliness that helps no-one (eg Brexit is like changing a nappy), but a good way to illustrate what I mean here is to imagine your dog has shat on the carpet.

    In which case you can (i) sit there looking at it, grumbling at the mess, castigating the dog and yourself for failing to train it properly; or (ii) you can screw that for a game of soldiers and go, "right, let's get this cleared up!" and then think about getting a goldfish.

    Option (i) is Remoaning. Option (ii) is the can-do spirit of Rejoin.

    I'm a Remoaner btw. I'm still slumped in my chair gazing at the steaming pile of doo doo, chuntering how it shouldn't have happened, "why oh why oh why", unable (yet) to get up and do anything about it. But one day (and I'll let everyone know when this happens) I'll snap out of this and then I'll be a Remoaner no more. I'll be a Rejoiner.
    The thing is you and I didn't want the dog in the first place. Indeed, we raised some questions of what would happen to the cream carpets and the reasonably nice furniture. But we were overruled by our other half and their parents. This sort of thing happens, and is one of the spices of life. But they're not cleaning the mess up either, and sometimes hint that it's our fault for not training the dog properly.

    And the worst of it? It's getting to the point where we probably could phone up Battersea Dog's Home and ask them to take Nigel the Bulldog away. But we'd feel like utter scumbags for doing that. At least today we would...
    ‘you and I didn’t want the dog in the first place’

    =

    ‘These people never wanted to be parents in the first place”

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-brexit-is-just-like-having-a-baby/

    Brexit = Baby remains the greatest analogy in the history of PB - maybe in the history of humanity. We can only hope that one day the immortal @SeanT might one day *Rejoin* pb

    The analogy falls down because having a baby isn't that difficult and is a source of joy and fulfillment to the parents from day one. I'd say that Brexit is more like having a shit, one that turns out to be an unflushable turd. All that strain, followed by a bad smell and lingering embarrassment.
    Consider adding more fibre to your diet if thats your normal fecal experience...
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,699
    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    The Lib Dems are also staring at a REALLY bad general election, when they would normally hope to benefit from Tory travails

    I do not understand their inertia. The tactical move for them is obvious. Come out, loud and proud, as the party of Rejoin the EU immediately (after another referendum). There are enough hardcore Remoaners in southern England and the like to win them quite a few seats, indeed Remoaners tempted by Starmer might vote tactically for the LDs in the hope that they can pressure him towards Rejoin in a hung parliament

    What the F are they playing at? This would also bring them much needed attention

    It is amazing to me that no UK party is going out there swinging for the Rejoin vote, when the polls are clearly showing Brexit remorse

    That's an interesting idea but we need to get more precise with the language on this now. After nearly 7 years you can't be both a Remoaner and a Rejoiner. A Remoaner is passive, pissed off, backwards looking; a Rejoiner is head up, future facing, active.

    I avoid analogies as a rule, they're overdone in punditry and can easily slide into a silliness that helps no-one (eg Brexit is like changing a nappy), but a good way to illustrate what I mean here is to imagine your dog has shat on the carpet.

    In which case you can (i) sit there looking at it, grumbling at the mess, castigating the dog and yourself for failing to train it properly; or (ii) you can screw that for a game of soldiers and go, "right, let's get this cleared up!" and then think about getting a goldfish.

    Option (i) is Remoaning. Option (ii) is the can-do spirit of Rejoin.

    I'm a Remoaner btw. I'm still slumped in my chair gazing at the steaming pile of doo doo, chuntering how it shouldn't have happened, "why oh why oh why", unable (yet) to get up and do anything about it. But one day (and I'll let everyone know when this happens) I'll snap out of this and then I'll be a Remoaner no more. I'll be a Rejoiner.
    The thing is you and I didn't want the dog in the first place. Indeed, we raised some questions of what would happen to the cream carpets and the reasonably nice furniture. But we were overruled by our other half and their parents. This sort of thing happens, and is one of the spices of life. But they're not cleaning the mess up either, and sometimes hint that it's our fault for not training the dog properly.

    And the worst of it? It's getting to the point where we probably could phone up Battersea Dog's Home and ask them to take Nigel the Bulldog away. But we'd feel like utter scumbags for doing that. At least today we would...
    ‘you and I didn’t want the dog in the first place’

    =

    ‘These people never wanted to be parents in the first place”

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-brexit-is-just-like-having-a-baby/

    Brexit = Baby remains the greatest analogy in the history of PB - maybe in the history of humanity. We can only hope that one day the immortal @SeanT might one day *Rejoin* pb

    The analogy falls down because having a baby isn't that difficult and is a source of joy and fulfillment to the parents from day one. I'd say that Brexit is more like having a shit, one that turns out to be an unflushable turd. All that strain, followed by a bad smell and lingering embarrassment.
    This is why, like all of us, you don’t write for the most prestigious magazine in the world

    Most prestigious magazine in the world?
    [Coughs modestly]
    Actually, I did write a few articles for Linux Journal. Not within the past decade though, I will give you that.
    Tried to get a paper into Nature once. It ended up several rungs down the ladder in a still excellent journal. Never had a chance as it was some random jawbone of yet another hominid from East Africa...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,677

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    The Lib Dems are also staring at a REALLY bad general election, when they would normally hope to benefit from Tory travails

    I do not understand their inertia. The tactical move for them is obvious. Come out, loud and proud, as the party of Rejoin the EU immediately (after another referendum). There are enough hardcore Remoaners in southern England and the like to win them quite a few seats, indeed Remoaners tempted by Starmer might vote tactically for the LDs in the hope that they can pressure him towards Rejoin in a hung parliament

    What the F are they playing at? This would also bring them much needed attention

    It is amazing to me that no UK party is going out there swinging for the Rejoin vote, when the polls are clearly showing Brexit remorse

    That's an interesting idea but we need to get more precise with the language on this now. After nearly 7 years you can't be both a Remoaner and a Rejoiner. A Remoaner is passive, pissed off, backwards looking; a Rejoiner is head up, future facing, active.

    I avoid analogies as a rule, they're overdone in punditry and can easily slide into a silliness that helps no-one (eg Brexit is like changing a nappy), but a good way to illustrate what I mean here is to imagine your dog has shat on the carpet.

    In which case you can (i) sit there looking at it, grumbling at the mess, castigating the dog and yourself for failing to train it properly; or (ii) you can screw that for a game of soldiers and go, "right, let's get this cleared up!" and then think about getting a goldfish.

    Option (i) is Remoaning. Option (ii) is the can-do spirit of Rejoin.

    I'm a Remoaner btw. I'm still slumped in my chair gazing at the steaming pile of doo doo, chuntering how it shouldn't have happened, "why oh why oh why", unable (yet) to get up and do anything about it. But one day (and I'll let everyone know when this happens) I'll snap out of this and then I'll be a Remoaner no more. I'll be a Rejoiner.
    The thing is you and I didn't want the dog in the first place. Indeed, we raised some questions of what would happen to the cream carpets and the reasonably nice furniture. But we were overruled by our other half and their parents. This sort of thing happens, and is one of the spices of life. But they're not cleaning the mess up either, and sometimes hint that it's our fault for not training the dog properly.

    And the worst of it? It's getting to the point where we probably could phone up Battersea Dog's Home and ask them to take Nigel the Bulldog away. But we'd feel like utter scumbags for doing that. At least today we would...
    I'm ok with the dog. I just wish I'd got one that didn't go round spouting analogies all the time.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,898
    Carnyx said:

    Speaking of rail enthusiam, I'm watching through 'Walking Britain's Lost Railways' on the odd occasion at the moment; it's a nice programme to have on in the background.

    I am struck by the total spaghetti ball of railways that Britain used to be. Which surely means that releasing capacity on the WCML (if it is an issue of such national import that it's worth rinsing the nation for) could have been achieved more easily by reviving some of the other lines that criss-crossed the country. We know which lines worked and were busy, we know why, the ground work is mostly still there and not much has been built over the top since.

    Hmm. Not that I disagree in sentiment at all, but if 5% has been built over the top then that is a real bugger.

    Have a look at the route of the Great Central Railway, built to *Continental* loading gauge (in plain English, that means it could take big fat furrin trains straight from the Channel Tunnel more or less, and was intended to connect that to Manchester and Sheffield. Yes, more than a century ago.

    Massive earthworks and f***-you viaducts in engineering black brick - through Rugby and Leicester. Now partly used for the M1 (I think) and almost completely demolished through Leicester. Reinstating that would be a screaming horror film of the March of the Nimbies perhaps even compared with HS2, even if the nice chaps who run steam trains along 10 miles of it could be persuaded to sell up.

    https://www.railscot.co.uk/London_Extension/index.php

    Edit: Used to have huge viaducts and a raised station in Leicester above the streets. Now, not so mucn viaduct, and the station is the industrial estate in this pic

    https://www.google.com/maps/@52.637407,-1.1417154,542m/data=!3m1!1e3

    OTOH the Scots managed to reinstate the [edit] northern part of the line between Edinburgh and Carlisle fairly well, so it is possible.
    Yes, the Waverley line is featured in an episode - it's a wonderful achievement and numbers travelling have been higher than anticipated. Need to go soon.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,440

    Carnyx said:

    Speaking of rail enthusiam, I'm watching through 'Walking Britain's Lost Railways' on the odd occasion at the moment; it's a nice programme to have on in the background.

    I am struck by the total spaghetti ball of railways that Britain used to be. Which surely means that releasing capacity on the WCML (if it is an issue of such national import that it's worth rinsing the nation for) could have been achieved more easily by reviving some of the other lines that criss-crossed the country. We know which lines worked and were busy, we know why, the ground work is mostly still there and not much has been built over the top since.

    Hmm. Not that I disagree in sentiment at all, but if 5% has been built over the top then that is a real bugger.

    Have a look at the route of the Great Central Railway, built to *Continental* loading gauge (in plain English, that means it could take big fat furrin trains straight from the Channel Tunnel more or less, and was intended to connect that to Manchester and Sheffield. Yes, more than a century ago.

    Massive earthworks and f***-you viaducts in engineering black brick - through Rugby and Leicester. Now partly used for the M1 (I think) and almost completely demolished through Leicester. Reinstating that would be a screaming horror film of the March of the Nimbies perhaps even compared with HS2, even if the nice chaps who run steam trains along 10 miles of it could be persuaded to sell up.

    https://www.railscot.co.uk/London_Extension/index.php

    Edit: Used to have huge viaducts and a raised station in Leicester above the streets. Now, not so mucn viaduct, and the station is the industrial estate in this pic

    https://www.google.com/maps/@52.637407,-1.1417154,542m/data=!3m1!1e3

    OTOH the Scots managed to reinstate the [edit] northern part of the line between Edinburgh and Carlisle fairly well, so it is possible.
    Yes, the Waverley line is featured in an episode - it's a wonderful achievement and numbers travelling have been higher than anticipated. Need to go soon.
    Yeas, such a shame though that there was a laclk of confidence thanks to barracking from the usual suspects and they didn't make it double throughout, or even single-with-bridges-already-wide-for-two-when-it-upgrades.
  • Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Hi @CorrectHorseBattery3 . How are you doing ? Any progress on the running ? I always do a couple of miles before a work from home day. Love it.

    Hi @Taz thanks for checking in. Still keeping the mental health good, glad the spring is coming and it is warming up. Summer is just around the corner!

    Running wise I am up to three times a week, only a few minutes of running each time but I am building it up. I am hoping fingers crossed I will be able to run my first 5K after many, many months, next month.

    How are you?
    Good thanks.

    Always feel good when the weather is on the turn and the nights brighten 😀

    We are also filling in our diary and got a few nice weekends booked.

    I am hoping to do the local 5K to me in March. I only got into running thanks to my wife and Jo Wiley on Couch to 5K
    I did Couch to 5K for the same reason!!! It's genuinely one of the best things the BBC has done in the last decade, no doubt about it.

    One of the greatest senses of achievement I have felt was that first run when I managed 90 seconds running non stop. Never thought I’d be able to do it. Hadn’t run since I was at school.

    Now I’d think nothing of a 45 minute run.
    I used to hate running at school, now I love it. My favourite thing to do.
  • Sean_F said:

    If the Tories offer a referendum on the death penalty I will never vote for them in my life. It is sickening.

    Are there any circumstances in which you would vote Conservative, otherwise?
    Yes.

    If they go back to being centre ground and not obsessed with immigrants and trans people, I will consider it if Labour have clearly run out of steam as they did in 2010. I would of course resign my Labour membership prior to that.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,310

    Mr. B, I probably agree but would be loath to lock up money for that long, at those odds.

    Red Bull should be favourites, and Verstappen even more so. Ferrari appeared to go backwards but Mercedes made huge gains last season. The closeness of the Russell-Hamilton pairing is a mixed bag for the Mercs as they stand a much better Constructors' chance but Verstappen will be favoured from day 1 at Red Bull.

    It's layable, being on the exchange, so not necessarily locked up.

    Red Bull are operating under significant handicaps (financial and computer simulation time allowance) this season, so I think they might struggle.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,310
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    The Lib Dems are also staring at a REALLY bad general election, when they would normally hope to benefit from Tory travails

    I do not understand their inertia. The tactical move for them is obvious. Come out, loud and proud, as the party of Rejoin the EU immediately (after another referendum). There are enough hardcore Remoaners in southern England and the like to win them quite a few seats, indeed Remoaners tempted by Starmer might vote tactically for the LDs in the hope that they can pressure him towards Rejoin in a hung parliament

    What the F are they playing at? This would also bring them much needed attention

    It is amazing to me that no UK party is going out there swinging for the Rejoin vote, when the polls are clearly showing Brexit remorse

    That's an interesting idea but we need to get more precise with the language on this now. After nearly 7 years you can't be both a Remoaner and a Rejoiner. A Remoaner is passive, pissed off, backwards looking; a Rejoiner is head up, future facing, active.

    I avoid analogies as a rule, they're overdone in punditry and can easily slide into a silliness that helps no-one (eg Brexit is like changing a nappy), but a good way to illustrate what I mean here is to imagine your dog has shat on the carpet.

    In which case you can (i) sit there looking at it, grumbling at the mess, castigating the dog and yourself for failing to train it properly; or (ii) you can screw that for a game of soldiers and go, "right, let's get this cleared up!" and then think about getting a goldfish.

    Option (i) is Remoaning. Option (ii) is the can-do spirit of Rejoin.

    I'm a Remoaner btw. I'm still slumped in my chair gazing at the steaming pile of doo doo, chuntering how it shouldn't have happened, "why oh why oh why", unable (yet) to get up and do anything about it. But one day (and I'll let everyone know when this happens) I'll snap out of this and then I'll be a Remoaner no more. I'll be a Rejoiner.
    The thing is you and I didn't want the dog in the first place. Indeed, we raised some questions of what would happen to the cream carpets and the reasonably nice furniture. But we were overruled by our other half and their parents. This sort of thing happens, and is one of the spices of life. But they're not cleaning the mess up either, and sometimes hint that it's our fault for not training the dog properly.

    And the worst of it? It's getting to the point where we probably could phone up Battersea Dog's Home and ask them to take Nigel the Bulldog away. But we'd feel like utter scumbags for doing that. At least today we would...
    ‘you and I didn’t want the dog in the first place’

    =

    ‘These people never wanted to be parents in the first place”

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-brexit-is-just-like-having-a-baby/

    Brexit = Baby remains the greatest analogy in the history of PB - maybe in the history of humanity. We can only hope that one day the immortal @SeanT might one day *Rejoin* pb

    The analogy falls down because having a baby isn't that difficult and is a source of joy and fulfillment to the parents from day one. I'd say that Brexit is more like having a shit, one that turns out to be an unflushable turd. All that strain, followed by a bad smell and lingering embarrassment.
    This is why, like all of us, you don’t write for the most prestigious magazine in the world

    Did you get a gig with the Atlantic ?
    Congrats.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,650
    Roger said:

    I know one poster is obsessed that the Tories are actually gaining but the poll they used for evidence is sticking with the mean.

    It's bounced up and down between 25 and 30 point leads for months now, literally nothing has changed, it is all just noise.

    What is happening is that Sunak's ratings are dropping to the floor.

    There’s some good things in your post, but your lack any detail or explanation or even expeditions.

    Instead of your general “25 to 30” the detail would be that over 3 months the average of polls has been closer to 25 than thirty, an average of 27 at best and 26 now. How what is happening there ties in with politics, LISTEN to Nadine Dorries in her Big Dog defence, in saying they bet the house on a Sunak bounce and didn’t get it.

    In fact what is it now, what is the very latest? The worst average the Tories got last year, they are just 3.3% above last time we looked - and even HY doesn’t argue with that - and, as you say, Sunak’s ratings are dropping some weeks now and appears to be dragging his party down with them.

    I have a GRAPHICAL REVELATION from the graphs on the wiki page.

    If you compare the frequent election polls graph with the less frequent merp polls graph, the election polls have Labour going up thanks to Truss bad few weeks, but Labour then crashing and losing half their Liz Leap. But on the MRP graph they barely dip down just keep going up.

    And looking to the end bit as we do to see what recent trends are revealed in Shape Format, the Shapes are different - the Labour smile shape is there on both graphs, but on the merp the Tories have no titties at all. 🤷‍♀️

    I’m not quite sure what all this means. Only that it means something to do with lines on frequent poll graph with lines in infrequent poll graph.

    Todays cut of our favourite graph



    The merp graph today



    My main take out is the trend on last 3 merps with different firms involved in them from a period of some time between are all under 100 seats and not good for the Tories.
    Is that one of those psychiatrist jokes....'I woke up and thought I was a dog....'
    You are wired today Roger. Honestly. 🤦‍♀️

    The truth. If I didn’t find this blog site you would be missing all my psephological insights. Who else has proved, by using the right snippets of right graphs and asking the right questions, that the Tories are in a unique and very difficult electoral situation here?
  • Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    The Lib Dems are also staring at a REALLY bad general election, when they would normally hope to benefit from Tory travails

    I do not understand their inertia. The tactical move for them is obvious. Come out, loud and proud, as the party of Rejoin the EU immediately (after another referendum). There are enough hardcore Remoaners in southern England and the like to win them quite a few seats, indeed Remoaners tempted by Starmer might vote tactically for the LDs in the hope that they can pressure him towards Rejoin in a hung parliament

    What the F are they playing at? This would also bring them much needed attention

    It is amazing to me that no UK party is going out there swinging for the Rejoin vote, when the polls are clearly showing Brexit remorse

    That's an interesting idea but we need to get more precise with the language on this now. After nearly 7 years you can't be both a Remoaner and a Rejoiner. A Remoaner is passive, pissed off, backwards looking; a Rejoiner is head up, future facing, active.

    I avoid analogies as a rule, they're overdone in punditry and can easily slide into a silliness that helps no-one (eg Brexit is like changing a nappy), but a good way to illustrate what I mean here is to imagine your dog has shat on the carpet.

    In which case you can (i) sit there looking at it, grumbling at the mess, castigating the dog and yourself for failing to train it properly; or (ii) you can screw that for a game of soldiers and go, "right, let's get this cleared up!" and then think about getting a goldfish.

    Option (i) is Remoaning. Option (ii) is the can-do spirit of Rejoin.

    I'm a Remoaner btw. I'm still slumped in my chair gazing at the steaming pile of doo doo, chuntering how it shouldn't have happened, "why oh why oh why", unable (yet) to get up and do anything about it. But one day (and I'll let everyone know when this happens) I'll snap out of this and then I'll be a Remoaner no more. I'll be a Rejoiner.
    The thing is you and I didn't want the dog in the first place. Indeed, we raised some questions of what would happen to the cream carpets and the reasonably nice furniture. But we were overruled by our other half and their parents. This sort of thing happens, and is one of the spices of life. But they're not cleaning the mess up either, and sometimes hint that it's our fault for not training the dog properly.

    And the worst of it? It's getting to the point where we probably could phone up Battersea Dog's Home and ask them to take Nigel the Bulldog away. But we'd feel like utter scumbags for doing that. At least today we would...
    ‘you and I didn’t want the dog in the first place’

    =

    ‘These people never wanted to be parents in the first place”

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-brexit-is-just-like-having-a-baby/

    Brexit = Baby remains the greatest analogy in the history of PB - maybe in the history of humanity. We can only hope that one day the immortal @SeanT might one day *Rejoin* pb

    The analogy falls down because having a baby isn't that difficult and is a source of joy and fulfillment to the parents from day one. I'd say that Brexit is more like having a shit, one that turns out to be an unflushable turd. All that strain, followed by a bad smell and lingering embarrassment.
    This is why, like all of us, you don’t write for the most prestigious magazine in the world

    Most prestigious magazine in the world?
    [Coughs modestly]
    Actually, I did write a few articles for Linux Journal. Not within the past decade though, I will give you that.
    rm -r /Brexit
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,898

    Speaking of rail enthusiam, I'm watching through 'Walking Britain's Lost Railways' on the odd occasion at the moment; it's a nice programme to have on in the background.

    I am struck by the total spaghetti ball of railways that Britain used to be. Which surely means that releasing capacity on the WCML (if it is an issue of such national import that it's worth rinsing the nation for) could have been achieved more easily by reviving some of the other lines that criss-crossed the country. We know which lines worked and were busy, we know why, the ground work is mostly still there and not much has been built over the top since.

    That's a good idea, but reopenings are massively complex and expensive.

    Let's look at one example: March to Spalding. This 20-mile line only closed in 1982 to save £4 million in track renewel costs, and runs mainly across farmland. Nowadays it would prove to be a massively useful diversionary route for freight heading from the east coast ports to the north, avoiding Peterborough and busy sections of the ECML. I cannot remember the latest costs for the project, but they were eye-wateringly large.

    Or take March to Wisbech. An 8-mile line that yet again runs across flat Fenland, and was used for freight until 2000. The reopening cost for passengers is put at £200 million, with hundreds of thousands being spent just on studies.

    Of in another area, the Portishead Branch near Bristol. Or the Blethcley to Oxford line, which is currently being rebuilt at massive cost.

    It's not just a case of slapping down new sleepers and rails, as preservation societies would. Everything needs looking at, and bridges often need rebuilding or strengthening - witness the recent work on the Bletchley Flyover.

    Then there's the question of whether reopenings would actually reduce demand on the WCML: the old Great Central Railway is a non-starter for a number of very good reasons.
    I just don't see how the example of March to Wisbech above can cost £200mn. To me, that estimate must have flaws. I am too cynical and I don't have faith in those writing these things.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,203
    edited February 2023

    Speaking of rail enthusiam, I'm watching through 'Walking Britain's Lost Railways' on the odd occasion at the moment; it's a nice programme to have on in the background.

    I am struck by the total spaghetti ball of railways that Britain used to be. Which surely means that releasing capacity on the WCML (if it is an issue of such national import that it's worth rinsing the nation for) could have been achieved more easily by reviving some of the other lines that criss-crossed the country. We know which lines worked and were busy, we know why, the ground work is mostly still there and not much has been built over the top since.

    That's a good idea, but reopenings are massively complex and expensive.

    Let's look at one example: March to Spalding. This 20-mile line only closed in 1982 to save £4 million in track renewel costs, and runs mainly across farmland. Nowadays it would prove to be a massively useful diversionary route for freight heading from the east coast ports to the north, avoiding Peterborough and busy sections of the ECML. I cannot remember the latest costs for the project, but they were eye-wateringly large.

    Or take March to Wisbech. An 8-mile line that yet again runs across flat Fenland, and was used for freight until 2000. The reopening cost for passengers is put at £200 million, with hundreds of thousands being spent just on studies.

    Of in another area, the Portishead Branch near Bristol. Or the Blethcley to Oxford line, which is currently being rebuilt at massive cost.

    It's not just a case of slapping down new sleepers and rails, as preservation societies would. Everything needs looking at, and bridges often need rebuilding or strengthening - witness the recent work on the Bletchley Flyover.

    Then there's the question of whether reopenings would actually reduce demand on the WCML: the old Great Central Railway is a non-starter for a number of very good reasons.
    If we don't work out how to make railways cheaper to build, we won't get railways.
  • rcs1000 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    The Lib Dems are also staring at a REALLY bad general election, when they would normally hope to benefit from Tory travails

    I do not understand their inertia. The tactical move for them is obvious. Come out, loud and proud, as the party of Rejoin the EU immediately (after another referendum). There are enough hardcore Remoaners in southern England and the like to win them quite a few seats, indeed Remoaners tempted by Starmer might vote tactically for the LDs in the hope that they can pressure him towards Rejoin in a hung parliament

    What the F are they playing at? This would also bring them much needed attention

    It is amazing to me that no UK party is going out there swinging for the Rejoin vote, when the polls are clearly showing Brexit remorse

    That's an interesting idea but we need to get more precise with the language on this now. After nearly 7 years you can't be both a Remoaner and a Rejoiner. A Remoaner is passive, pissed off, backwards looking; a Rejoiner is head up, future facing, active.

    I avoid analogies as a rule, they're overdone in punditry and can easily slide into a silliness that helps no-one (eg Brexit is like changing a nappy), but a good way to illustrate what I mean here is to imagine your dog has shat on the carpet.

    In which case you can (i) sit there looking at it, grumbling at the mess, castigating the dog and yourself for failing to train it properly; or (ii) you can screw that for a game of soldiers and go, "right, let's get this cleared up!" and then think about getting a goldfish.

    Option (i) is Remoaning. Option (ii) is the can-do spirit of Rejoin.

    I'm a Remoaner btw. I'm still slumped in my chair gazing at the steaming pile of doo doo, chuntering how it shouldn't have happened, "why oh why oh why", unable (yet) to get up and do anything about it. But one day (and I'll let everyone know when this happens) I'll snap out of this and then I'll be a Remoaner no more. I'll be a Rejoiner.
    The thing is you and I didn't want the dog in the first place. Indeed, we raised some questions of what would happen to the cream carpets and the reasonably nice furniture. But we were overruled by our other half and their parents. This sort of thing happens, and is one of the spices of life. But they're not cleaning the mess up either, and sometimes hint that it's our fault for not training the dog properly.

    And the worst of it? It's getting to the point where we probably could phone up Battersea Dog's Home and ask them to take Nigel the Bulldog away. But we'd feel like utter scumbags for doing that. At least today we would...
    I'm ok with the dog. I just wish I'd got one that didn't go round spouting analogies all the time.
    Some breeds will springer metaphor on you when you least expect it.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,699

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    The Lib Dems are also staring at a REALLY bad general election, when they would normally hope to benefit from Tory travails

    I do not understand their inertia. The tactical move for them is obvious. Come out, loud and proud, as the party of Rejoin the EU immediately (after another referendum). There are enough hardcore Remoaners in southern England and the like to win them quite a few seats, indeed Remoaners tempted by Starmer might vote tactically for the LDs in the hope that they can pressure him towards Rejoin in a hung parliament

    What the F are they playing at? This would also bring them much needed attention

    It is amazing to me that no UK party is going out there swinging for the Rejoin vote, when the polls are clearly showing Brexit remorse

    That's an interesting idea but we need to get more precise with the language on this now. After nearly 7 years you can't be both a Remoaner and a Rejoiner. A Remoaner is passive, pissed off, backwards looking; a Rejoiner is head up, future facing, active.

    I avoid analogies as a rule, they're overdone in punditry and can easily slide into a silliness that helps no-one (eg Brexit is like changing a nappy), but a good way to illustrate what I mean here is to imagine your dog has shat on the carpet.

    In which case you can (i) sit there looking at it, grumbling at the mess, castigating the dog and yourself for failing to train it properly; or (ii) you can screw that for a game of soldiers and go, "right, let's get this cleared up!" and then think about getting a goldfish.

    Option (i) is Remoaning. Option (ii) is the can-do spirit of Rejoin.

    I'm a Remoaner btw. I'm still slumped in my chair gazing at the steaming pile of doo doo, chuntering how it shouldn't have happened, "why oh why oh why", unable (yet) to get up and do anything about it. But one day (and I'll let everyone know when this happens) I'll snap out of this and then I'll be a Remoaner no more. I'll be a Rejoiner.
    The thing is you and I didn't want the dog in the first place. Indeed, we raised some questions of what would happen to the cream carpets and the reasonably nice furniture. But we were overruled by our other half and their parents. This sort of thing happens, and is one of the spices of life. But they're not cleaning the mess up either, and sometimes hint that it's our fault for not training the dog properly.

    And the worst of it? It's getting to the point where we probably could phone up Battersea Dog's Home and ask them to take Nigel the Bulldog away. But we'd feel like utter scumbags for doing that. At least today we would...
    ‘you and I didn’t want the dog in the first place’

    =

    ‘These people never wanted to be parents in the first place”

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-brexit-is-just-like-having-a-baby/

    Brexit = Baby remains the greatest analogy in the history of PB - maybe in the history of humanity. We can only hope that one day the immortal @SeanT might one day *Rejoin* pb

    The analogy falls down because having a baby isn't that difficult and is a source of joy and fulfillment to the parents from day one. I'd say that Brexit is more like having a shit, one that turns out to be an unflushable turd. All that strain, followed by a bad smell and lingering embarrassment.
    This is why, like all of us, you don’t write for the most prestigious magazine in the world

    Most prestigious magazine in the world?
    [Coughs modestly]
    Actually, I did write a few articles for Linux Journal. Not within the past decade though, I will give you that.
    Tried to get a paper into Nature once. It ended up several rungs down the ladder in a still excellent journal. Never had a chance as it was some random jawbone of yet another hominid from East Africa...
    Oops - I meant wasn't not was... A jawbone would fly in!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,310
    rcs1000 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    The Lib Dems are also staring at a REALLY bad general election, when they would normally hope to benefit from Tory travails

    I do not understand their inertia. The tactical move for them is obvious. Come out, loud and proud, as the party of Rejoin the EU immediately (after another referendum). There are enough hardcore Remoaners in southern England and the like to win them quite a few seats, indeed Remoaners tempted by Starmer might vote tactically for the LDs in the hope that they can pressure him towards Rejoin in a hung parliament

    What the F are they playing at? This would also bring them much needed attention

    It is amazing to me that no UK party is going out there swinging for the Rejoin vote, when the polls are clearly showing Brexit remorse

    That's an interesting idea but we need to get more precise with the language on this now. After nearly 7 years you can't be both a Remoaner and a Rejoiner. A Remoaner is passive, pissed off, backwards looking; a Rejoiner is head up, future facing, active.

    I avoid analogies as a rule, they're overdone in punditry and can easily slide into a silliness that helps no-one (eg Brexit is like changing a nappy), but a good way to illustrate what I mean here is to imagine your dog has shat on the carpet.

    In which case you can (i) sit there looking at it, grumbling at the mess, castigating the dog and yourself for failing to train it properly; or (ii) you can screw that for a game of soldiers and go, "right, let's get this cleared up!" and then think about getting a goldfish.

    Option (i) is Remoaning. Option (ii) is the can-do spirit of Rejoin.

    I'm a Remoaner btw. I'm still slumped in my chair gazing at the steaming pile of doo doo, chuntering how it shouldn't have happened, "why oh why oh why", unable (yet) to get up and do anything about it. But one day (and I'll let everyone know when this happens) I'll snap out of this and then I'll be a Remoaner no more. I'll be a Rejoiner.
    The thing is you and I didn't want the dog in the first place. Indeed, we raised some questions of what would happen to the cream carpets and the reasonably nice furniture. But we were overruled by our other half and their parents. This sort of thing happens, and is one of the spices of life. But they're not cleaning the mess up either, and sometimes hint that it's our fault for not training the dog properly.

    And the worst of it? It's getting to the point where we probably could phone up Battersea Dog's Home and ask them to take Nigel the Bulldog away. But we'd feel like utter scumbags for doing that. At least today we would...
    I'm ok with the dog. I just wish I'd got one that didn't go round spouting analogies all the time.
    From both ends.
  • Sean_F said:

    Taz said:

    If the Tories offer a referendum on the death penalty I will never vote for them in my life. It is sickening.

    It's an easy win for 30p Lee, Horse. His profile has gone through the roof in the last 48 hours.

    Forget the morality of hanging Stefan Kishko, the Birmingham 6, the Guildford 4, the Bridgewater 4, the Cardiff 3 and Judith Ward. Lee knows only the traitorous wokerati would disagree with hanging Ian Huntley.

    What Lee hasn't twigged he is just a useful idiot, a thick peasant populist clown that patrician Conservative MPs quietly revulsed by his attitudes, are laughing at behind his back. I am not laughing, I believe him to be very dangerous.
    It’s an awful debate to get dragged into on social media because the moment you say you don’t agree with hanging Ian Huntley you are automatically assumed by a chunk of people to support him.

    Surely Life without parole, especially for a younger person, is a far greater punishment than the death penalty anyway.
    It really is wickedly cynical. I doubt 30p Lee even believes in capital punishment, unlike Priti and Suella, who I suspect dream of the day Mr Pierrepoint gives them their photo opportunity with the trapdoor lever.

    The Brexit referendum should be a warning to the Conservatives of playing fast and loose for short term political gain.
    The UK was at ease with itself under New Labour, societally it really was. We have got to get back to that.
    It really was not. The 2000's were a decade in which the BNP was winning substantial support, and which ended in the worst recession since the 1930's.
    I can’t really think of a time in my lifetime that Britain has been societally at ease with itself. The mid-late 90s are possibly the best candidate. Interestingly that probably spans the dying days of Major into the first few years of Blair.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,650

    I should be the ideal young Tory voter.

    Own a house, work in the private sector, earn very well and I am a hard worker.

    Yet the Tories continue to drift away from me. One day this will cause them a lot of problems, that day will yet come.

    I should be a Tory voter as well. As well as many PBers who once were. But I agree with the suggestion in your thread, this is more than a tired clapped out party in government change, this I agree is fundamental.

    Raised by two Conservative Party members in a part of the world the handful of votes for Labour is marked down as spoilt ballots, but in nearly 9 years have yet to vote Tory. I think Because I take a very keen interest in these things and I have my idea what the Conservative Party should be, and this current mob are not it, not by a long way.

    The Party always stood for opening up markets, helping business, sound finance and growth - not hostile to a public sector, but through sound finance and growth and no debt repayments, actually providing the best foundation for providing the best funding to public services.

    Classic Conservativism always had a liberal - in the old fashioned, tolerant sense which believes in freedom, rights and responsibility - so Being liberal too is at the heart of being a true Conservative, and makes the difference between them and ideologies what exist to the right of them.

    Boris extermination of the life long liberal conservatives MPs over one vote, after all his own and friends rebelling, was disgusting and never necessary in my opinion. If you need to go to those lengths to get a policy through then you need to think about what you are doing.

    Behind their constant attacks on the integrity of the civil service is very real financial incompetence, corruption and sleaze being carried out by the Conservative Party.

    In the fifties and sixties an era of collectivism and community, the Conservative Party and her leaders and their governments very much agreed with this. But in the 60’s was sown the seed of a new era - individualism. And the party that done so well in the 20th century is now get screwed by abandoning collectivism and community.

    They are now the we will have our cake and eat it party, which is fantasy in all its policy positions.
    Two likes. Both Horse and my MexicanPet then. Kewl
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,047
    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    The Lib Dems are also staring at a REALLY bad general election, when they would normally hope to benefit from Tory travails

    I do not understand their inertia. The tactical move for them is obvious. Come out, loud and proud, as the party of Rejoin the EU immediately (after another referendum). There are enough hardcore Remoaners in southern England and the like to win them quite a few seats, indeed Remoaners tempted by Starmer might vote tactically for the LDs in the hope that they can pressure him towards Rejoin in a hung parliament

    What the F are they playing at? This would also bring them much needed attention

    It is amazing to me that no UK party is going out there swinging for the Rejoin vote, when the polls are clearly showing Brexit remorse

    That's an interesting idea but we need to get more precise with the language on this now. After nearly 7 years you can't be both a Remoaner and a Rejoiner. A Remoaner is passive, pissed off, backwards looking; a Rejoiner is head up, future facing, active.

    I avoid analogies as a rule, they're overdone in punditry and can easily slide into a silliness that helps no-one (eg Brexit is like changing a nappy), but a good way to illustrate what I mean here is to imagine your dog has shat on the carpet.

    In which case you can (i) sit there looking at it, grumbling at the mess, castigating the dog and yourself for failing to train it properly; or (ii) you can screw that for a game of soldiers and go, "right, let's get this cleared up!" and then think about getting a goldfish.

    Option (i) is Remoaning. Option (ii) is the can-do spirit of Rejoin.

    I'm a Remoaner btw. I'm still slumped in my chair gazing at the steaming pile of doo doo, chuntering how it shouldn't have happened, "why oh why oh why", unable (yet) to get up and do anything about it. But one day (and I'll let everyone know when this happens) I'll snap out of this and then I'll be a Remoaner no more. I'll be a Rejoiner.
    The thing is you and I didn't want the dog in the first place. Indeed, we raised some questions of what would happen to the cream carpets and the reasonably nice furniture. But we were overruled by our other half and their parents. This sort of thing happens, and is one of the spices of life. But they're not cleaning the mess up either, and sometimes hint that it's our fault for not training the dog properly.

    And the worst of it? It's getting to the point where we probably could phone up Battersea Dog's Home and ask them to take Nigel the Bulldog away. But we'd feel like utter scumbags for doing that. At least today we would...
    ‘you and I didn’t want the dog in the first place’

    =

    ‘These people never wanted to be parents in the first place”

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-brexit-is-just-like-having-a-baby/

    Brexit = Baby remains the greatest analogy in the history of PB - maybe in the history of humanity. We can only hope that one day the immortal @SeanT might one day *Rejoin* pb

    The analogy falls down because having a baby isn't that difficult and is a source of joy and fulfillment to the parents from day one. I'd say that Brexit is more like having a shit, one that turns out to be an unflushable turd. All that strain, followed by a bad smell and lingering embarrassment.
    This is why, like all of us, you don’t write for the most prestigious magazine in the world

    Most prestigious magazine in the world?
    [Coughs modestly]
    Actually, I did write a few articles for Linux Journal. Not within the past decade though, I will give you that.
    I used to write for 'ST Format' back in the day after getting a shareware package I'd written onto the cover-disk. Which now that I think on it - predates Linus even announcing Linux. God damn it.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,440
    edited February 2023
    ohnotnow said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    The Lib Dems are also staring at a REALLY bad general election, when they would normally hope to benefit from Tory travails

    I do not understand their inertia. The tactical move for them is obvious. Come out, loud and proud, as the party of Rejoin the EU immediately (after another referendum). There are enough hardcore Remoaners in southern England and the like to win them quite a few seats, indeed Remoaners tempted by Starmer might vote tactically for the LDs in the hope that they can pressure him towards Rejoin in a hung parliament

    What the F are they playing at? This would also bring them much needed attention

    It is amazing to me that no UK party is going out there swinging for the Rejoin vote, when the polls are clearly showing Brexit remorse

    That's an interesting idea but we need to get more precise with the language on this now. After nearly 7 years you can't be both a Remoaner and a Rejoiner. A Remoaner is passive, pissed off, backwards looking; a Rejoiner is head up, future facing, active.

    I avoid analogies as a rule, they're overdone in punditry and can easily slide into a silliness that helps no-one (eg Brexit is like changing a nappy), but a good way to illustrate what I mean here is to imagine your dog has shat on the carpet.

    In which case you can (i) sit there looking at it, grumbling at the mess, castigating the dog and yourself for failing to train it properly; or (ii) you can screw that for a game of soldiers and go, "right, let's get this cleared up!" and then think about getting a goldfish.

    Option (i) is Remoaning. Option (ii) is the can-do spirit of Rejoin.

    I'm a Remoaner btw. I'm still slumped in my chair gazing at the steaming pile of doo doo, chuntering how it shouldn't have happened, "why oh why oh why", unable (yet) to get up and do anything about it. But one day (and I'll let everyone know when this happens) I'll snap out of this and then I'll be a Remoaner no more. I'll be a Rejoiner.
    The thing is you and I didn't want the dog in the first place. Indeed, we raised some questions of what would happen to the cream carpets and the reasonably nice furniture. But we were overruled by our other half and their parents. This sort of thing happens, and is one of the spices of life. But they're not cleaning the mess up either, and sometimes hint that it's our fault for not training the dog properly.

    And the worst of it? It's getting to the point where we probably could phone up Battersea Dog's Home and ask them to take Nigel the Bulldog away. But we'd feel like utter scumbags for doing that. At least today we would...
    ‘you and I didn’t want the dog in the first place’

    =

    ‘These people never wanted to be parents in the first place”

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-brexit-is-just-like-having-a-baby/

    Brexit = Baby remains the greatest analogy in the history of PB - maybe in the history of humanity. We can only hope that one day the immortal @SeanT might one day *Rejoin* pb

    The analogy falls down because having a baby isn't that difficult and is a source of joy and fulfillment to the parents from day one. I'd say that Brexit is more like having a shit, one that turns out to be an unflushable turd. All that strain, followed by a bad smell and lingering embarrassment.
    This is why, like all of us, you don’t write for the most prestigious magazine in the world

    Most prestigious magazine in the world?
    [Coughs modestly]
    Actually, I did write a few articles for Linux Journal. Not within the past decade though, I will give you that.
    I used to write for 'ST Format' back in the day after getting a shareware package I'd written onto the cover-disk. Which now that I think on it - predates Linus even announcing Linux. God damn it.
    deleted - too obscure ...
  • eekeek Posts: 28,592

    Speaking of rail enthusiam, I'm watching through 'Walking Britain's Lost Railways' on the odd occasion at the moment; it's a nice programme to have on in the background.

    I am struck by the total spaghetti ball of railways that Britain used to be. Which surely means that releasing capacity on the WCML (if it is an issue of such national import that it's worth rinsing the nation for) could have been achieved more easily by reviving some of the other lines that criss-crossed the country. We know which lines worked and were busy, we know why, the ground work is mostly still there and not much has been built over the top since.

    That's a good idea, but reopenings are massively complex and expensive.

    Let's look at one example: March to Spalding. This 20-mile line only closed in 1982 to save £4 million in track renewel costs, and runs mainly across farmland. Nowadays it would prove to be a massively useful diversionary route for freight heading from the east coast ports to the north, avoiding Peterborough and busy sections of the ECML. I cannot remember the latest costs for the project, but they were eye-wateringly large.

    Or take March to Wisbech. An 8-mile line that yet again runs across flat Fenland, and was used for freight until 2000. The reopening cost for passengers is put at £200 million, with hundreds of thousands being spent just on studies.

    Of in another area, the Portishead Branch near Bristol. Or the Blethcley to Oxford line, which is currently being rebuilt at massive cost.

    It's not just a case of slapping down new sleepers and rails, as preservation societies would. Everything needs looking at, and bridges often need rebuilding or strengthening - witness the recent work on the Bletchley Flyover.

    Then there's the question of whether reopenings would actually reduce demand on the WCML: the old Great Central Railway is a non-starter for a number of very good reasons.
    I just don't see how the example of March to Wisbech above can cost £200mn. To me, that estimate must have flaws. I am too cynical and I don't have faith in those writing these things.
    The Treasury will happily use a gold plated on top of platinum plated budget estimate if it allows them to kill an project that costs more than 30pence...

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,707

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    The Lib Dems are also staring at a REALLY bad general election, when they would normally hope to benefit from Tory travails

    I do not understand their inertia. The tactical move for them is obvious. Come out, loud and proud, as the party of Rejoin the EU immediately (after another referendum). There are enough hardcore Remoaners in southern England and the like to win them quite a few seats, indeed Remoaners tempted by Starmer might vote tactically for the LDs in the hope that they can pressure him towards Rejoin in a hung parliament

    What the F are they playing at? This would also bring them much needed attention

    It is amazing to me that no UK party is going out there swinging for the Rejoin vote, when the polls are clearly showing Brexit remorse

    That's an interesting idea but we need to get more precise with the language on this now. After nearly 7 years you can't be both a Remoaner and a Rejoiner. A Remoaner is passive, pissed off, backwards looking; a Rejoiner is head up, future facing, active.

    I avoid analogies as a rule, they're overdone in punditry and can easily slide into a silliness that helps no-one (eg Brexit is like changing a nappy), but a good way to illustrate what I mean here is to imagine your dog has shat on the carpet.

    In which case you can (i) sit there looking at it, grumbling at the mess, castigating the dog and yourself for failing to train it properly; or (ii) you can screw that for a game of soldiers and go, "right, let's get this cleared up!" and then think about getting a goldfish.

    Option (i) is Remoaning. Option (ii) is the can-do spirit of Rejoin.

    I'm a Remoaner btw. I'm still slumped in my chair gazing at the steaming pile of doo doo, chuntering how it shouldn't have happened, "why oh why oh why", unable (yet) to get up and do anything about it. But one day (and I'll let everyone know when this happens) I'll snap out of this and then I'll be a Remoaner no more. I'll be a Rejoiner.
    The thing is you and I didn't want the dog in the first place. Indeed, we raised some questions of what would happen to the cream carpets and the reasonably nice furniture. But we were overruled by our other half and their parents. This sort of thing happens, and is one of the spices of life. But they're not cleaning the mess up either, and sometimes hint that it's our fault for not training the dog properly.

    And the worst of it? It's getting to the point where we probably could phone up Battersea Dog's Home and ask them to take Nigel the Bulldog away. But we'd feel like utter scumbags for doing that. At least today we would...
    ‘you and I didn’t want the dog in the first place’

    =

    ‘These people never wanted to be parents in the first place”

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-brexit-is-just-like-having-a-baby/

    Brexit = Baby remains the greatest analogy in the history of PB - maybe in the history of humanity. We can only hope that one day the immortal @SeanT might one day *Rejoin* pb

    The analogy falls down because having a baby isn't that difficult and is a source of joy and fulfillment to the parents from day one. I'd say that Brexit is more like having a shit, one that turns out to be an unflushable turd. All that strain, followed by a bad smell and lingering embarrassment.
    That's rather close to mine! One way or another you have to get shit into it. So long as that's there you have something workable.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,047
    edited February 2023
    Carnyx said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    The Lib Dems are also staring at a REALLY bad general election, when they would normally hope to benefit from Tory travails

    I do not understand their inertia. The tactical move for them is obvious. Come out, loud and proud, as the party of Rejoin the EU immediately (after another referendum). There are enough hardcore Remoaners in southern England and the like to win them quite a few seats, indeed Remoaners tempted by Starmer might vote tactically for the LDs in the hope that they can pressure him towards Rejoin in a hung parliament

    What the F are they playing at? This would also bring them much needed attention

    It is amazing to me that no UK party is going out there swinging for the Rejoin vote, when the polls are clearly showing Brexit remorse

    That's an interesting idea but we need to get more precise with the language on this now. After nearly 7 years you can't be both a Remoaner and a Rejoiner. A Remoaner is passive, pissed off, backwards looking; a Rejoiner is head up, future facing, active.

    I avoid analogies as a rule, they're overdone in punditry and can easily slide into a silliness that helps no-one (eg Brexit is like changing a nappy), but a good way to illustrate what I mean here is to imagine your dog has shat on the carpet.

    In which case you can (i) sit there looking at it, grumbling at the mess, castigating the dog and yourself for failing to train it properly; or (ii) you can screw that for a game of soldiers and go, "right, let's get this cleared up!" and then think about getting a goldfish.

    Option (i) is Remoaning. Option (ii) is the can-do spirit of Rejoin.

    I'm a Remoaner btw. I'm still slumped in my chair gazing at the steaming pile of doo doo, chuntering how it shouldn't have happened, "why oh why oh why", unable (yet) to get up and do anything about it. But one day (and I'll let everyone know when this happens) I'll snap out of this and then I'll be a Remoaner no more. I'll be a Rejoiner.
    The thing is you and I didn't want the dog in the first place. Indeed, we raised some questions of what would happen to the cream carpets and the reasonably nice furniture. But we were overruled by our other half and their parents. This sort of thing happens, and is one of the spices of life. But they're not cleaning the mess up either, and sometimes hint that it's our fault for not training the dog properly.

    And the worst of it? It's getting to the point where we probably could phone up Battersea Dog's Home and ask them to take Nigel the Bulldog away. But we'd feel like utter scumbags for doing that. At least today we would...
    ‘you and I didn’t want the dog in the first place’

    =

    ‘These people never wanted to be parents in the first place”

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-brexit-is-just-like-having-a-baby/

    Brexit = Baby remains the greatest analogy in the history of PB - maybe in the history of humanity. We can only hope that one day the immortal @SeanT might one day *Rejoin* pb

    The analogy falls down because having a baby isn't that difficult and is a source of joy and fulfillment to the parents from day one. I'd say that Brexit is more like having a shit, one that turns out to be an unflushable turd. All that strain, followed by a bad smell and lingering embarrassment.
    This is why, like all of us, you don’t write for the most prestigious magazine in the world

    Most prestigious magazine in the world?
    [Coughs modestly]
    Actually, I did write a few articles for Linux Journal. Not within the past decade though, I will give you that.
    I used to write for 'ST Format' back in the day after getting a shareware package I'd written onto the cover-disk. Which now that I think on it - predates Linus even announcing Linux. God damn it.
    deleted - too obscure ...
    The deleted - too obscube diaspora - we turn up everywhere. I was chatting to a young'un on a Discord server a few months ago and turns out he works there as a programmer & 'devops' type.

    There is no escape!
  • rcs1000 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    The Lib Dems are also staring at a REALLY bad general election, when they would normally hope to benefit from Tory travails

    I do not understand their inertia. The tactical move for them is obvious. Come out, loud and proud, as the party of Rejoin the EU immediately (after another referendum). There are enough hardcore Remoaners in southern England and the like to win them quite a few seats, indeed Remoaners tempted by Starmer might vote tactically for the LDs in the hope that they can pressure him towards Rejoin in a hung parliament

    What the F are they playing at? This would also bring them much needed attention

    It is amazing to me that no UK party is going out there swinging for the Rejoin vote, when the polls are clearly showing Brexit remorse

    That's an interesting idea but we need to get more precise with the language on this now. After nearly 7 years you can't be both a Remoaner and a Rejoiner. A Remoaner is passive, pissed off, backwards looking; a Rejoiner is head up, future facing, active.

    I avoid analogies as a rule, they're overdone in punditry and can easily slide into a silliness that helps no-one (eg Brexit is like changing a nappy), but a good way to illustrate what I mean here is to imagine your dog has shat on the carpet.

    In which case you can (i) sit there looking at it, grumbling at the mess, castigating the dog and yourself for failing to train it properly; or (ii) you can screw that for a game of soldiers and go, "right, let's get this cleared up!" and then think about getting a goldfish.

    Option (i) is Remoaning. Option (ii) is the can-do spirit of Rejoin.

    I'm a Remoaner btw. I'm still slumped in my chair gazing at the steaming pile of doo doo, chuntering how it shouldn't have happened, "why oh why oh why", unable (yet) to get up and do anything about it. But one day (and I'll let everyone know when this happens) I'll snap out of this and then I'll be a Remoaner no more. I'll be a Rejoiner.
    The thing is you and I didn't want the dog in the first place. Indeed, we raised some questions of what would happen to the cream carpets and the reasonably nice furniture. But we were overruled by our other half and their parents. This sort of thing happens, and is one of the spices of life. But they're not cleaning the mess up either, and sometimes hint that it's our fault for not training the dog properly.

    And the worst of it? It's getting to the point where we probably could phone up Battersea Dog's Home and ask them to take Nigel the Bulldog away. But we'd feel like utter scumbags for doing that. At least today we would...
    I'm ok with the dog. I just wish I'd got one that didn't go round spouting analogies all the time.
    Some breeds will springer metaphor on you when you least expect it.
    I was cocker hoop when I saw your pun
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,523

    When MSPs from across the political spectrum lined up behind the Scottish Government’s plan to make it easier for people to change their gender in law, they basked in the praise of activists and publicly-funded campaign groups.

    They considered themselves righteous champions of fairness and equality, and denounced their critics as bigoted and out of touch.

    Now, those same politicians dance on the heads of pins, squirming and avoiding questions about this most controversial of issues.….

    When Sarwar should have been challenging the Scottish Government over reforms which were legally unworkable, he meekly fell into line. This political cowardice was helpful neither to transgender people nor to those who felt the legislation went too far.

    In purely political terms, Sarwar has blown it. Never in her long and successful career has Nicola Sturgeon appeared more vulnerable. Her obsession with reforming the GRA has likely set her at odds with fellow nationalists and the majority of Scottish voters.


    https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/opinion/columnists/5377924/anas-sarwar-political-shield-snp-euan-mccolm-opinion/

    He is such a dummy he would not understand and just did what his London handler ordered, these guys are not allowed to think even if they could.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,898
    Leon said:

    ...

    Leon said:

    So it turns out there is a local posh-ish canteen which will deliver to my hotel a superb prawn laksa, Kyoto seaweed salad, Taiwanese hot soup dumplings and tremendous won ton, for £12. Door to hotel door in 35 minutes, after a couple of clicks on an iPhone: ie the perfect amount of time to have two G&Ts on the moonlit rooftop bar then go collect your food

    Bangkok in Jan-Feb is, verily, a kind of earthly paradise

    And now I get to watch “The Boys” with a nice bottle of 19 crimes. This, here, is mmmmmmmBOP

    Hoping 'The Boys' is a TV programme, though I suppose when in Bangkok...
    It is indeed a tv drama. It’s brilliant. It’s about superheroes turned corporate and gone bad

    The anti-Trumpite satire is occasionally overdone and the sizzling script can lapse into over-writing, and the hero Brit is obviously an Aussie (ie an Aussie doing cockney) but it’s also great fun. Hideously violent but in a cartoon way. Well worth a watch
    Thanks! I try and avoid very violent things. Don't need that in my brain.
  • carnforth said:

    "Ukraine’s wartime leader Volodymyr Zelensky has now been bestowed with France’s highest medal of honour. But there’s a problem: Russian President Vladimir Putin has the same medal."

    https://www.france24.com/en/france/20230210-macron-considers-stripping-putin-of-french-legion-of-honour-medal

    By the same token can Vlad be retrospectively stripped of his state visit? I'm sure even now there are shrivelled UK pols and courtiers looking to get one for Zelensky so they can bathe in whatever reflected glory they can squeeze out of it.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,440

    rcs1000 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    The Lib Dems are also staring at a REALLY bad general election, when they would normally hope to benefit from Tory travails

    I do not understand their inertia. The tactical move for them is obvious. Come out, loud and proud, as the party of Rejoin the EU immediately (after another referendum). There are enough hardcore Remoaners in southern England and the like to win them quite a few seats, indeed Remoaners tempted by Starmer might vote tactically for the LDs in the hope that they can pressure him towards Rejoin in a hung parliament

    What the F are they playing at? This would also bring them much needed attention

    It is amazing to me that no UK party is going out there swinging for the Rejoin vote, when the polls are clearly showing Brexit remorse

    That's an interesting idea but we need to get more precise with the language on this now. After nearly 7 years you can't be both a Remoaner and a Rejoiner. A Remoaner is passive, pissed off, backwards looking; a Rejoiner is head up, future facing, active.

    I avoid analogies as a rule, they're overdone in punditry and can easily slide into a silliness that helps no-one (eg Brexit is like changing a nappy), but a good way to illustrate what I mean here is to imagine your dog has shat on the carpet.

    In which case you can (i) sit there looking at it, grumbling at the mess, castigating the dog and yourself for failing to train it properly; or (ii) you can screw that for a game of soldiers and go, "right, let's get this cleared up!" and then think about getting a goldfish.

    Option (i) is Remoaning. Option (ii) is the can-do spirit of Rejoin.

    I'm a Remoaner btw. I'm still slumped in my chair gazing at the steaming pile of doo doo, chuntering how it shouldn't have happened, "why oh why oh why", unable (yet) to get up and do anything about it. But one day (and I'll let everyone know when this happens) I'll snap out of this and then I'll be a Remoaner no more. I'll be a Rejoiner.
    The thing is you and I didn't want the dog in the first place. Indeed, we raised some questions of what would happen to the cream carpets and the reasonably nice furniture. But we were overruled by our other half and their parents. This sort of thing happens, and is one of the spices of life. But they're not cleaning the mess up either, and sometimes hint that it's our fault for not training the dog properly.

    And the worst of it? It's getting to the point where we probably could phone up Battersea Dog's Home and ask them to take Nigel the Bulldog away. But we'd feel like utter scumbags for doing that. At least today we would...
    I'm ok with the dog. I just wish I'd got one that didn't go round spouting analogies all the time.
    Some breeds will springer metaphor on you when you least expect it.
    I was cocker hoop when I saw your pun
    Some folk will clumber all over a comment to sniff out and retrieve a potential pun.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,707
    rcs1000 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    The Lib Dems are also staring at a REALLY bad general election, when they would normally hope to benefit from Tory travails

    I do not understand their inertia. The tactical move for them is obvious. Come out, loud and proud, as the party of Rejoin the EU immediately (after another referendum). There are enough hardcore Remoaners in southern England and the like to win them quite a few seats, indeed Remoaners tempted by Starmer might vote tactically for the LDs in the hope that they can pressure him towards Rejoin in a hung parliament

    What the F are they playing at? This would also bring them much needed attention

    It is amazing to me that no UK party is going out there swinging for the Rejoin vote, when the polls are clearly showing Brexit remorse

    That's an interesting idea but we need to get more precise with the language on this now. After nearly 7 years you can't be both a Remoaner and a Rejoiner. A Remoaner is passive, pissed off, backwards looking; a Rejoiner is head up, future facing, active.

    I avoid analogies as a rule, they're overdone in punditry and can easily slide into a silliness that helps no-one (eg Brexit is like changing a nappy), but a good way to illustrate what I mean here is to imagine your dog has shat on the carpet.

    In which case you can (i) sit there looking at it, grumbling at the mess, castigating the dog and yourself for failing to train it properly; or (ii) you can screw that for a game of soldiers and go, "right, let's get this cleared up!" and then think about getting a goldfish.

    Option (i) is Remoaning. Option (ii) is the can-do spirit of Rejoin.

    I'm a Remoaner btw. I'm still slumped in my chair gazing at the steaming pile of doo doo, chuntering how it shouldn't have happened, "why oh why oh why", unable (yet) to get up and do anything about it. But one day (and I'll let everyone know when this happens) I'll snap out of this and then I'll be a Remoaner no more. I'll be a Rejoiner.
    The thing is you and I didn't want the dog in the first place. Indeed, we raised some questions of what would happen to the cream carpets and the reasonably nice furniture. But we were overruled by our other half and their parents. This sort of thing happens, and is one of the spices of life. But they're not cleaning the mess up either, and sometimes hint that it's our fault for not training the dog properly.

    And the worst of it? It's getting to the point where we probably could phone up Battersea Dog's Home and ask them to take Nigel the Bulldog away. But we'd feel like utter scumbags for doing that. At least today we would...
    I'm ok with the dog. I just wish I'd got one that didn't go round spouting analogies all the time.
    Yes, ok, sorry, It was a one-off. Leon's fault actually, truth be told.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,972
    Things you don't expect to read in a current affairs magazine:

    "In the wake of the Cold War, Senator Joe Biden spearheaded congressional support for bringing Sesame Street to Russia, in hopes that the Muppets would act as ambassadors for democracy and free markets."

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-the-muppets-went-to-moscow-as-ambassadors-for-democracy/
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,060
    RMT rejects final offer.

    More strikes ahead.

    The RMT abandoned strikes for the queens funeral but went on strike before Xmas knowing it would harm the hospitality industry.

    I’ve gone from supporting them to saying fuck them. They’ve lost.

    https://twitter.com/rmtunion/status/1624070002637668357?s=61&t=RqKCY1QWy4KGLQf7g8XEqA
  • Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    The Lib Dems are also staring at a REALLY bad general election, when they would normally hope to benefit from Tory travails

    I do not understand their inertia. The tactical move for them is obvious. Come out, loud and proud, as the party of Rejoin the EU immediately (after another referendum). There are enough hardcore Remoaners in southern England and the like to win them quite a few seats, indeed Remoaners tempted by Starmer might vote tactically for the LDs in the hope that they can pressure him towards Rejoin in a hung parliament

    What the F are they playing at? This would also bring them much needed attention

    It is amazing to me that no UK party is going out there swinging for the Rejoin vote, when the polls are clearly showing Brexit remorse

    That's an interesting idea but we need to get more precise with the language on this now. After nearly 7 years you can't be both a Remoaner and a Rejoiner. A Remoaner is passive, pissed off, backwards looking; a Rejoiner is head up, future facing, active.

    I avoid analogies as a rule, they're overdone in punditry and can easily slide into a silliness that helps no-one (eg Brexit is like changing a nappy), but a good way to illustrate what I mean here is to imagine your dog has shat on the carpet.

    In which case you can (i) sit there looking at it, grumbling at the mess, castigating the dog and yourself for failing to train it properly; or (ii) you can screw that for a game of soldiers and go, "right, let's get this cleared up!" and then think about getting a goldfish.

    Option (i) is Remoaning. Option (ii) is the can-do spirit of Rejoin.

    I'm a Remoaner btw. I'm still slumped in my chair gazing at the steaming pile of doo doo, chuntering how it shouldn't have happened, "why oh why oh why", unable (yet) to get up and do anything about it. But one day (and I'll let everyone know when this happens) I'll snap out of this and then I'll be a Remoaner no more. I'll be a Rejoiner.
    The thing is you and I didn't want the dog in the first place. Indeed, we raised some questions of what would happen to the cream carpets and the reasonably nice furniture. But we were overruled by our other half and their parents. This sort of thing happens, and is one of the spices of life. But they're not cleaning the mess up either, and sometimes hint that it's our fault for not training the dog properly.

    And the worst of it? It's getting to the point where we probably could phone up Battersea Dog's Home and ask them to take Nigel the Bulldog away. But we'd feel like utter scumbags for doing that. At least today we would...
    ‘you and I didn’t want the dog in the first place’

    =

    ‘These people never wanted to be parents in the first place”

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-brexit-is-just-like-having-a-baby/

    Brexit = Baby remains the greatest analogy in the history of PB - maybe in the history of humanity. We can only hope that one day the immortal @SeanT might one day *Rejoin* pb

    The analogy falls down because having a baby isn't that difficult and is a source of joy and fulfillment to the parents from day one. I'd say that Brexit is more like having a shit, one that turns out to be an unflushable turd. All that strain, followed by a bad smell and lingering embarrassment.
    Post-natal depression is not uncommon, and can be particularly difficult to deal with because you're supposed to be happy about having a baby.

    Will the Brexit baby blues pass?
    I'd say they lifted when it became clear we'd get vaccinated before most of Europe. If we just stick at steadily choosing to do the right thing for the UK, and diverging sensibly where necessary, those types of advantages will occur more frequently. It seems to me actually very hard work to be as shit at being out of the EU as we are at the moment.
    We were vaccinated before most of the rest of Europe because we have (probably) the best pharma industry in Europe. The vaccine "thing" is the Brexit apologists only argument and it is as vacuous and nonsensical as their lying bus slogan.
  • Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    The Lib Dems are also staring at a REALLY bad general election, when they would normally hope to benefit from Tory travails

    I do not understand their inertia. The tactical move for them is obvious. Come out, loud and proud, as the party of Rejoin the EU immediately (after another referendum). There are enough hardcore Remoaners in southern England and the like to win them quite a few seats, indeed Remoaners tempted by Starmer might vote tactically for the LDs in the hope that they can pressure him towards Rejoin in a hung parliament

    What the F are they playing at? This would also bring them much needed attention

    It is amazing to me that no UK party is going out there swinging for the Rejoin vote, when the polls are clearly showing Brexit remorse

    That's an interesting idea but we need to get more precise with the language on this now. After nearly 7 years you can't be both a Remoaner and a Rejoiner. A Remoaner is passive, pissed off, backwards looking; a Rejoiner is head up, future facing, active.

    I avoid analogies as a rule, they're overdone in punditry and can easily slide into a silliness that helps no-one (eg Brexit is like changing a nappy), but a good way to illustrate what I mean here is to imagine your dog has shat on the carpet.

    In which case you can (i) sit there looking at it, grumbling at the mess, castigating the dog and yourself for failing to train it properly; or (ii) you can screw that for a game of soldiers and go, "right, let's get this cleared up!" and then think about getting a goldfish.

    Option (i) is Remoaning. Option (ii) is the can-do spirit of Rejoin.

    I'm a Remoaner btw. I'm still slumped in my chair gazing at the steaming pile of doo doo, chuntering how it shouldn't have happened, "why oh why oh why", unable (yet) to get up and do anything about it. But one day (and I'll let everyone know when this happens) I'll snap out of this and then I'll be a Remoaner no more. I'll be a Rejoiner.
    The thing is you and I didn't want the dog in the first place. Indeed, we raised some questions of what would happen to the cream carpets and the reasonably nice furniture. But we were overruled by our other half and their parents. This sort of thing happens, and is one of the spices of life. But they're not cleaning the mess up either, and sometimes hint that it's our fault for not training the dog properly.

    And the worst of it? It's getting to the point where we probably could phone up Battersea Dog's Home and ask them to take Nigel the Bulldog away. But we'd feel like utter scumbags for doing that. At least today we would...
    ‘you and I didn’t want the dog in the first place’

    =

    ‘These people never wanted to be parents in the first place”

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-brexit-is-just-like-having-a-baby/

    Brexit = Baby remains the greatest analogy in the history of PB - maybe in the history of humanity. We can only hope that one day the immortal @SeanT might one day *Rejoin* pb

    The analogy falls down because having a baby isn't that difficult and is a source of joy and fulfillment to the parents from day one. I'd say that Brexit is more like having a shit, one that turns out to be an unflushable turd. All that strain, followed by a bad smell and lingering embarrassment.
    And for some of us poor sods it's someone else's unflushable turd, and we're supposed to pretend it smells lovely and is totally not embarassing.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,060

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Hi @CorrectHorseBattery3 . How are you doing ? Any progress on the running ? I always do a couple of miles before a work from home day. Love it.

    Hi @Taz thanks for checking in. Still keeping the mental health good, glad the spring is coming and it is warming up. Summer is just around the corner!

    Running wise I am up to three times a week, only a few minutes of running each time but I am building it up. I am hoping fingers crossed I will be able to run my first 5K after many, many months, next month.

    How are you?
    Good thanks.

    Always feel good when the weather is on the turn and the nights brighten 😀

    We are also filling in our diary and got a few nice weekends booked.

    I am hoping to do the local 5K to me in March. I only got into running thanks to my wife and Jo Wiley on Couch to 5K
    I did Couch to 5K for the same reason!!! It's genuinely one of the best things the BBC has done in the last decade, no doubt about it.

    One of the greatest senses of achievement I have felt was that first run when I managed 90 seconds running non stop. Never thought I’d be able to do it. Hadn’t run since I was at school.

    Now I’d think nothing of a 45 minute run.
    I used to hate running at school, now I love it. My favourite thing to do.
    Same here. I was proud, at the time, I came in the bottom three every time we had a cross country run.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    Andy_JS said:

    Things you don't expect to read in a current affairs magazine:

    "In the wake of the Cold War, Senator Joe Biden spearheaded congressional support for bringing Sesame Street to Russia, in hopes that the Muppets would act as ambassadors for democracy and free markets."

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-the-muppets-went-to-moscow-as-ambassadors-for-democracy/

    The only Muppet in Sesame Street is Kermit.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,515

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    The Lib Dems are also staring at a REALLY bad general election, when they would normally hope to benefit from Tory travails

    I do not understand their inertia. The tactical move for them is obvious. Come out, loud and proud, as the party of Rejoin the EU immediately (after another referendum). There are enough hardcore Remoaners in southern England and the like to win them quite a few seats, indeed Remoaners tempted by Starmer might vote tactically for the LDs in the hope that they can pressure him towards Rejoin in a hung parliament

    What the F are they playing at? This would also bring them much needed attention

    It is amazing to me that no UK party is going out there swinging for the Rejoin vote, when the polls are clearly showing Brexit remorse

    That's an interesting idea but we need to get more precise with the language on this now. After nearly 7 years you can't be both a Remoaner and a Rejoiner. A Remoaner is passive, pissed off, backwards looking; a Rejoiner is head up, future facing, active.

    I avoid analogies as a rule, they're overdone in punditry and can easily slide into a silliness that helps no-one (eg Brexit is like changing a nappy), but a good way to illustrate what I mean here is to imagine your dog has shat on the carpet.

    In which case you can (i) sit there looking at it, grumbling at the mess, castigating the dog and yourself for failing to train it properly; or (ii) you can screw that for a game of soldiers and go, "right, let's get this cleared up!" and then think about getting a goldfish.

    Option (i) is Remoaning. Option (ii) is the can-do spirit of Rejoin.

    I'm a Remoaner btw. I'm still slumped in my chair gazing at the steaming pile of doo doo, chuntering how it shouldn't have happened, "why oh why oh why", unable (yet) to get up and do anything about it. But one day (and I'll let everyone know when this happens) I'll snap out of this and then I'll be a Remoaner no more. I'll be a Rejoiner.
    The thing is you and I didn't want the dog in the first place. Indeed, we raised some questions of what would happen to the cream carpets and the reasonably nice furniture. But we were overruled by our other half and their parents. This sort of thing happens, and is one of the spices of life. But they're not cleaning the mess up either, and sometimes hint that it's our fault for not training the dog properly.

    And the worst of it? It's getting to the point where we probably could phone up Battersea Dog's Home and ask them to take Nigel the Bulldog away. But we'd feel like utter scumbags for doing that. At least today we would...
    ‘you and I didn’t want the dog in the first place’

    =

    ‘These people never wanted to be parents in the first place”

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-brexit-is-just-like-having-a-baby/

    Brexit = Baby remains the greatest analogy in the history of PB - maybe in the history of humanity. We can only hope that one day the immortal @SeanT might one day *Rejoin* pb

    The analogy falls down because having a baby isn't that difficult and is a source of joy and fulfillment to the parents from day one. I'd say that Brexit is more like having a shit, one that turns out to be an unflushable turd. All that strain, followed by a bad smell and lingering embarrassment.
    Post-natal depression is not uncommon, and can be particularly difficult to deal with because you're supposed to be happy about having a baby.

    Will the Brexit baby blues pass?
    I'd say they lifted when it became clear we'd get vaccinated before most of Europe. If we just stick at steadily choosing to do the right thing for the UK, and diverging sensibly where necessary, those types of advantages will occur more frequently. It seems to me actually very hard work to be as shit at being out of the EU as we are at the moment.
    We were vaccinated before most of the rest of Europe because we have (probably) the best pharma industry in Europe. The vaccine "thing" is the Brexit apologists only argument and it is as vacuous and nonsensical as their lying bus slogan.
    I don't think that's correct. ISTR the EU stopping certain countries (Spain? Italy?) going ahead with agreed vaccine deals because they wanted an EU-wide deal. And IASTR that we 'invested' in many more and varied vaccines at an earlier time - in the hope that *something* would work.

    I'm not a Brexit apologist; but the EU's behaviour over the vaccines was IMO not good.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,440

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    The Lib Dems are also staring at a REALLY bad general election, when they would normally hope to benefit from Tory travails

    I do not understand their inertia. The tactical move for them is obvious. Come out, loud and proud, as the party of Rejoin the EU immediately (after another referendum). There are enough hardcore Remoaners in southern England and the like to win them quite a few seats, indeed Remoaners tempted by Starmer might vote tactically for the LDs in the hope that they can pressure him towards Rejoin in a hung parliament

    What the F are they playing at? This would also bring them much needed attention

    It is amazing to me that no UK party is going out there swinging for the Rejoin vote, when the polls are clearly showing Brexit remorse

    That's an interesting idea but we need to get more precise with the language on this now. After nearly 7 years you can't be both a Remoaner and a Rejoiner. A Remoaner is passive, pissed off, backwards looking; a Rejoiner is head up, future facing, active.

    I avoid analogies as a rule, they're overdone in punditry and can easily slide into a silliness that helps no-one (eg Brexit is like changing a nappy), but a good way to illustrate what I mean here is to imagine your dog has shat on the carpet.

    In which case you can (i) sit there looking at it, grumbling at the mess, castigating the dog and yourself for failing to train it properly; or (ii) you can screw that for a game of soldiers and go, "right, let's get this cleared up!" and then think about getting a goldfish.

    Option (i) is Remoaning. Option (ii) is the can-do spirit of Rejoin.

    I'm a Remoaner btw. I'm still slumped in my chair gazing at the steaming pile of doo doo, chuntering how it shouldn't have happened, "why oh why oh why", unable (yet) to get up and do anything about it. But one day (and I'll let everyone know when this happens) I'll snap out of this and then I'll be a Remoaner no more. I'll be a Rejoiner.
    The thing is you and I didn't want the dog in the first place. Indeed, we raised some questions of what would happen to the cream carpets and the reasonably nice furniture. But we were overruled by our other half and their parents. This sort of thing happens, and is one of the spices of life. But they're not cleaning the mess up either, and sometimes hint that it's our fault for not training the dog properly.

    And the worst of it? It's getting to the point where we probably could phone up Battersea Dog's Home and ask them to take Nigel the Bulldog away. But we'd feel like utter scumbags for doing that. At least today we would...
    ‘you and I didn’t want the dog in the first place’

    =

    ‘These people never wanted to be parents in the first place”

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-brexit-is-just-like-having-a-baby/

    Brexit = Baby remains the greatest analogy in the history of PB - maybe in the history of humanity. We can only hope that one day the immortal @SeanT might one day *Rejoin* pb

    The analogy falls down because having a baby isn't that difficult and is a source of joy and fulfillment to the parents from day one. I'd say that Brexit is more like having a shit, one that turns out to be an unflushable turd. All that strain, followed by a bad smell and lingering embarrassment.
    Post-natal depression is not uncommon, and can be particularly difficult to deal with because you're supposed to be happy about having a baby.

    Will the Brexit baby blues pass?
    I'd say they lifted when it became clear we'd get vaccinated before most of Europe. If we just stick at steadily choosing to do the right thing for the UK, and diverging sensibly where necessary, those types of advantages will occur more frequently. It seems to me actually very hard work to be as shit at being out of the EU as we are at the moment.
    We were vaccinated before most of the rest of Europe because we have (probably) the best pharma industry in Europe. The vaccine "thing" is the Brexit apologists only argument and it is as vacuous and nonsensical as their lying bus slogan.
    Rather odd that HMG is closing down/selling off the big vaccine research centre thingy about which Mr J and Mr Chap who was on Jungle Crawlies for Dinner on TV were getting so self-important about. I forget the details, but it is peculiar.
  • Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    The Lib Dems are also staring at a REALLY bad general election, when they would normally hope to benefit from Tory travails

    I do not understand their inertia. The tactical move for them is obvious. Come out, loud and proud, as the party of Rejoin the EU immediately (after another referendum). There are enough hardcore Remoaners in southern England and the like to win them quite a few seats, indeed Remoaners tempted by Starmer might vote tactically for the LDs in the hope that they can pressure him towards Rejoin in a hung parliament

    What the F are they playing at? This would also bring them much needed attention

    It is amazing to me that no UK party is going out there swinging for the Rejoin vote, when the polls are clearly showing Brexit remorse

    That's an interesting idea but we need to get more precise with the language on this now. After nearly 7 years you can't be both a Remoaner and a Rejoiner. A Remoaner is passive, pissed off, backwards looking; a Rejoiner is head up, future facing, active.

    I avoid analogies as a rule, they're overdone in punditry and can easily slide into a silliness that helps no-one (eg Brexit is like changing a nappy), but a good way to illustrate what I mean here is to imagine your dog has shat on the carpet.

    In which case you can (i) sit there looking at it, grumbling at the mess, castigating the dog and yourself for failing to train it properly; or (ii) you can screw that for a game of soldiers and go, "right, let's get this cleared up!" and then think about getting a goldfish.

    Option (i) is Remoaning. Option (ii) is the can-do spirit of Rejoin.

    I'm a Remoaner btw. I'm still slumped in my chair gazing at the steaming pile of doo doo, chuntering how it shouldn't have happened, "why oh why oh why", unable (yet) to get up and do anything about it. But one day (and I'll let everyone know when this happens) I'll snap out of this and then I'll be a Remoaner no more. I'll be a Rejoiner.
    The thing is you and I didn't want the dog in the first place. Indeed, we raised some questions of what would happen to the cream carpets and the reasonably nice furniture. But we were overruled by our other half and their parents. This sort of thing happens, and is one of the spices of life. But they're not cleaning the mess up either, and sometimes hint that it's our fault for not training the dog properly.

    And the worst of it? It's getting to the point where we probably could phone up Battersea Dog's Home and ask them to take Nigel the Bulldog away. But we'd feel like utter scumbags for doing that. At least today we would...
    I'm ok with the dog. I just wish I'd got one that didn't go round spouting analogies all the time.
    Some breeds will springer metaphor on you when you least expect it.
    I was cocker hoop when I saw your pun
    Some folk will clumber all over a comment to sniff out and retrieve a potential pun.
    One has to wonder what the pointer it all is
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    rcs1000 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    The Lib Dems are also staring at a REALLY bad general election, when they would normally hope to benefit from Tory travails

    I do not understand their inertia. The tactical move for them is obvious. Come out, loud and proud, as the party of Rejoin the EU immediately (after another referendum). There are enough hardcore Remoaners in southern England and the like to win them quite a few seats, indeed Remoaners tempted by Starmer might vote tactically for the LDs in the hope that they can pressure him towards Rejoin in a hung parliament

    What the F are they playing at? This would also bring them much needed attention

    It is amazing to me that no UK party is going out there swinging for the Rejoin vote, when the polls are clearly showing Brexit remorse

    That's an interesting idea but we need to get more precise with the language on this now. After nearly 7 years you can't be both a Remoaner and a Rejoiner. A Remoaner is passive, pissed off, backwards looking; a Rejoiner is head up, future facing, active.

    I avoid analogies as a rule, they're overdone in punditry and can easily slide into a silliness that helps no-one (eg Brexit is like changing a nappy), but a good way to illustrate what I mean here is to imagine your dog has shat on the carpet.

    In which case you can (i) sit there looking at it, grumbling at the mess, castigating the dog and yourself for failing to train it properly; or (ii) you can screw that for a game of soldiers and go, "right, let's get this cleared up!" and then think about getting a goldfish.

    Option (i) is Remoaning. Option (ii) is the can-do spirit of Rejoin.

    I'm a Remoaner btw. I'm still slumped in my chair gazing at the steaming pile of doo doo, chuntering how it shouldn't have happened, "why oh why oh why", unable (yet) to get up and do anything about it. But one day (and I'll let everyone know when this happens) I'll snap out of this and then I'll be a Remoaner no more. I'll be a Rejoiner.
    The thing is you and I didn't want the dog in the first place. Indeed, we raised some questions of what would happen to the cream carpets and the reasonably nice furniture. But we were overruled by our other half and their parents. This sort of thing happens, and is one of the spices of life. But they're not cleaning the mess up either, and sometimes hint that it's our fault for not training the dog properly.

    And the worst of it? It's getting to the point where we probably could phone up Battersea Dog's Home and ask them to take Nigel the Bulldog away. But we'd feel like utter scumbags for doing that. At least today we would...
    I'm ok with the dog. I just wish I'd got one that didn't go round spouting analogies all the time.
    Its also just a terrible analogy. Brexit is an act, not a thing. The thing is the EU.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,707

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    The Lib Dems are also staring at a REALLY bad general election, when they would normally hope to benefit from Tory travails

    I do not understand their inertia. The tactical move for them is obvious. Come out, loud and proud, as the party of Rejoin the EU immediately (after another referendum). There are enough hardcore Remoaners in southern England and the like to win them quite a few seats, indeed Remoaners tempted by Starmer might vote tactically for the LDs in the hope that they can pressure him towards Rejoin in a hung parliament

    What the F are they playing at? This would also bring them much needed attention

    It is amazing to me that no UK party is going out there swinging for the Rejoin vote, when the polls are clearly showing Brexit remorse

    That's an interesting idea but we need to get more precise with the language on this now. After nearly 7 years you can't be both a Remoaner and a Rejoiner. A Remoaner is passive, pissed off, backwards looking; a Rejoiner is head up, future facing, active.

    I avoid analogies as a rule, they're overdone in punditry and can easily slide into a silliness that helps no-one (eg Brexit is like changing a nappy), but a good way to illustrate what I mean here is to imagine your dog has shat on the carpet.

    In which case you can (i) sit there looking at it, grumbling at the mess, castigating the dog and yourself for failing to train it properly; or (ii) you can screw that for a game of soldiers and go, "right, let's get this cleared up!" and then think about getting a goldfish.

    Option (i) is Remoaning. Option (ii) is the can-do spirit of Rejoin.

    I'm a Remoaner btw. I'm still slumped in my chair gazing at the steaming pile of doo doo, chuntering how it shouldn't have happened, "why oh why oh why", unable (yet) to get up and do anything about it. But one day (and I'll let everyone know when this happens) I'll snap out of this and then I'll be a Remoaner no more. I'll be a Rejoiner.
    The thing is you and I didn't want the dog in the first place. Indeed, we raised some questions of what would happen to the cream carpets and the reasonably nice furniture. But we were overruled by our other half and their parents. This sort of thing happens, and is one of the spices of life. But they're not cleaning the mess up either, and sometimes hint that it's our fault for not training the dog properly.

    And the worst of it? It's getting to the point where we probably could phone up Battersea Dog's Home and ask them to take Nigel the Bulldog away. But we'd feel like utter scumbags for doing that. At least today we would...
    That's a very solid development, Stuart. Whole thing really works.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,203
    eek said:

    Speaking of rail enthusiam, I'm watching through 'Walking Britain's Lost Railways' on the odd occasion at the moment; it's a nice programme to have on in the background.

    I am struck by the total spaghetti ball of railways that Britain used to be. Which surely means that releasing capacity on the WCML (if it is an issue of such national import that it's worth rinsing the nation for) could have been achieved more easily by reviving some of the other lines that criss-crossed the country. We know which lines worked and were busy, we know why, the ground work is mostly still there and not much has been built over the top since.

    That's a good idea, but reopenings are massively complex and expensive.

    Let's look at one example: March to Spalding. This 20-mile line only closed in 1982 to save £4 million in track renewel costs, and runs mainly across farmland. Nowadays it would prove to be a massively useful diversionary route for freight heading from the east coast ports to the north, avoiding Peterborough and busy sections of the ECML. I cannot remember the latest costs for the project, but they were eye-wateringly large.

    Or take March to Wisbech. An 8-mile line that yet again runs across flat Fenland, and was used for freight until 2000. The reopening cost for passengers is put at £200 million, with hundreds of thousands being spent just on studies.

    Of in another area, the Portishead Branch near Bristol. Or the Blethcley to Oxford line, which is currently being rebuilt at massive cost.

    It's not just a case of slapping down new sleepers and rails, as preservation societies would. Everything needs looking at, and bridges often need rebuilding or strengthening - witness the recent work on the Bletchley Flyover.

    Then there's the question of whether reopenings would actually reduce demand on the WCML: the old Great Central Railway is a non-starter for a number of very good reasons.
    I just don't see how the example of March to Wisbech above can cost £200mn. To me, that estimate must have flaws. I am too cynical and I don't have faith in those writing these things.
    The Treasury will happily use a gold plated on top of platinum plated budget estimate if it allows them to kill an project that costs more than 30pence...

    Not really. Big project inflation is like aerospace inflation or medical inflation. mad runaway.

    The only reversal of that in recent memory is what SpaceX did aerospace inflation - they actually reduced costs, rather than merely trimming the yearly double digit inflation that everyone else was creating.

    Mega project inflation is why we'll end up with battery storage of electricity rather than tidal ponds or other schemes - lots of small schemes which consist of packing some shipping containers on a... parking lot. And connecting them to the grid.

    Meanwhile the committee in charge of refreshments for the 43rd year* of the 8th enquiry to be announced into tidal ponds, will solemnly report that the project now has cost 345 million. And they still haven't worked out if Jaffa Cakes are in the refreshments. Or not.

    *Not actually after 43 years - the committee will be setup well ahead of the actual 43rd year of the 8th enquiry.
  • Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Hi @CorrectHorseBattery3 . How are you doing ? Any progress on the running ? I always do a couple of miles before a work from home day. Love it.

    Hi @Taz thanks for checking in. Still keeping the mental health good, glad the spring is coming and it is warming up. Summer is just around the corner!

    Running wise I am up to three times a week, only a few minutes of running each time but I am building it up. I am hoping fingers crossed I will be able to run my first 5K after many, many months, next month.

    How are you?
    Good thanks.

    Always feel good when the weather is on the turn and the nights brighten 😀

    We are also filling in our diary and got a few nice weekends booked.

    I am hoping to do the local 5K to me in March. I only got into running thanks to my wife and Jo Wiley on Couch to 5K
    I did Couch to 5K for the same reason!!! It's genuinely one of the best things the BBC has done in the last decade, no doubt about it.

    One of the greatest senses of achievement I have felt was that first run when I managed 90 seconds running non stop. Never thought I’d be able to do it. Hadn’t run since I was at school.

    Now I’d think nothing of a 45 minute run.
    I used to hate running at school, now I love it. My favourite thing to do.
    Same here. I was proud, at the time, I came in the bottom three every time we had a cross country run.
    I think as one grows older, one realises that sometimes being forced is what makes one hate such activities.

    I am sure that is the case for me, I am not forced to run but I do it because I love it. I was never able to develop that relationship at school.

    This is one of the reasons that I am convinced our best days are in adulthood, not at school. Freedom to discover one's own activities and passions is what life is about.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832
    edited February 2023

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    The Lib Dems are also staring at a REALLY bad general election, when they would normally hope to benefit from Tory travails

    I do not understand their inertia. The tactical move for them is obvious. Come out, loud and proud, as the party of Rejoin the EU immediately (after another referendum). There are enough hardcore Remoaners in southern England and the like to win them quite a few seats, indeed Remoaners tempted by Starmer might vote tactically for the LDs in the hope that they can pressure him towards Rejoin in a hung parliament

    What the F are they playing at? This would also bring them much needed attention

    It is amazing to me that no UK party is going out there swinging for the Rejoin vote, when the polls are clearly showing Brexit remorse

    That's an interesting idea but we need to get more precise with the language on this now. After nearly 7 years you can't be both a Remoaner and a Rejoiner. A Remoaner is passive, pissed off, backwards looking; a Rejoiner is head up, future facing, active.

    I avoid analogies as a rule, they're overdone in punditry and can easily slide into a silliness that helps no-one (eg Brexit is like changing a nappy), but a good way to illustrate what I mean here is to imagine your dog has shat on the carpet.

    In which case you can (i) sit there looking at it, grumbling at the mess, castigating the dog and yourself for failing to train it properly; or (ii) you can screw that for a game of soldiers and go, "right, let's get this cleared up!" and then think about getting a goldfish.

    Option (i) is Remoaning. Option (ii) is the can-do spirit of Rejoin.

    I'm a Remoaner btw. I'm still slumped in my chair gazing at the steaming pile of doo doo, chuntering how it shouldn't have happened, "why oh why oh why", unable (yet) to get up and do anything about it. But one day (and I'll let everyone know when this happens) I'll snap out of this and then I'll be a Remoaner no more. I'll be a Rejoiner.
    The thing is you and I didn't want the dog in the first place. Indeed, we raised some questions of what would happen to the cream carpets and the reasonably nice furniture. But we were overruled by our other half and their parents. This sort of thing happens, and is one of the spices of life. But they're not cleaning the mess up either, and sometimes hint that it's our fault for not training the dog properly.

    And the worst of it? It's getting to the point where we probably could phone up Battersea Dog's Home and ask them to take Nigel the Bulldog away. But we'd feel like utter scumbags for doing that. At least today we would...
    ‘you and I didn’t want the dog in the first place’

    =

    ‘These people never wanted to be parents in the first place”

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-brexit-is-just-like-having-a-baby/

    Brexit = Baby remains the greatest analogy in the history of PB - maybe in the history of humanity. We can only hope that one day the immortal @SeanT might one day *Rejoin* pb

    The analogy falls down because having a baby isn't that difficult and is a source of joy and fulfillment to the parents from day one. I'd say that Brexit is more like having a shit, one that turns out to be an unflushable turd. All that strain, followed by a bad smell and lingering embarrassment.
    This is why, like all of us, you don’t write for the most prestigious magazine in the world

    Most prestigious magazine in the world?
    [Coughs modestly]
    Actually, I did write a few articles for Linux Journal. Not within the past decade though, I will give you that.
    Tried to get a paper into Nature once. It ended up several rungs down the ladder in a still excellent journal. Never had a chance as it was some random jawbone of yet another hominid from East Africa...
    Ah yes... I also have a Nature paper. Two actually. Well, they're in Pediatric Research but the article URL is under nature.com :smile:
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    The Lib Dems are also staring at a REALLY bad general election, when they would normally hope to benefit from Tory travails

    I do not understand their inertia. The tactical move for them is obvious. Come out, loud and proud, as the party of Rejoin the EU immediately (after another referendum). There are enough hardcore Remoaners in southern England and the like to win them quite a few seats, indeed Remoaners tempted by Starmer might vote tactically for the LDs in the hope that they can pressure him towards Rejoin in a hung parliament

    What the F are they playing at? This would also bring them much needed attention

    It is amazing to me that no UK party is going out there swinging for the Rejoin vote, when the polls are clearly showing Brexit remorse

    That's an interesting idea but we need to get more precise with the language on this now. After nearly 7 years you can't be both a Remoaner and a Rejoiner. A Remoaner is passive, pissed off, backwards looking; a Rejoiner is head up, future facing, active.

    I avoid analogies as a rule, they're overdone in punditry and can easily slide into a silliness that helps no-one (eg Brexit is like changing a nappy), but a good way to illustrate what I mean here is to imagine your dog has shat on the carpet.

    In which case you can (i) sit there looking at it, grumbling at the mess, castigating the dog and yourself for failing to train it properly; or (ii) you can screw that for a game of soldiers and go, "right, let's get this cleared up!" and then think about getting a goldfish.

    Option (i) is Remoaning. Option (ii) is the can-do spirit of Rejoin.

    I'm a Remoaner btw. I'm still slumped in my chair gazing at the steaming pile of doo doo, chuntering how it shouldn't have happened, "why oh why oh why", unable (yet) to get up and do anything about it. But one day (and I'll let everyone know when this happens) I'll snap out of this and then I'll be a Remoaner no more. I'll be a Rejoiner.
    The thing is you and I didn't want the dog in the first place. Indeed, we raised some questions of what would happen to the cream carpets and the reasonably nice furniture. But we were overruled by our other half and their parents. This sort of thing happens, and is one of the spices of life. But they're not cleaning the mess up either, and sometimes hint that it's our fault for not training the dog properly.

    And the worst of it? It's getting to the point where we probably could phone up Battersea Dog's Home and ask them to take Nigel the Bulldog away. But we'd feel like utter scumbags for doing that. At least today we would...
    ‘you and I didn’t want the dog in the first place’

    =

    ‘These people never wanted to be parents in the first place”

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-brexit-is-just-like-having-a-baby/

    Brexit = Baby remains the greatest analogy in the history of PB - maybe in the history of humanity. We can only hope that one day the immortal @SeanT might one day *Rejoin* pb

    The analogy falls down because having a baby isn't that difficult and is a source of joy and fulfillment to the parents from day one. I'd say that Brexit is more like having a shit, one that turns out to be an unflushable turd. All that strain, followed by a bad smell and lingering embarrassment.
    This is why, like all of us, you don’t write for the most prestigious magazine in the world

    Did you get a gig with the Atlantic ?
    Congrats.

    The Spectator is a weekly British magazine on politics, culture, and current affairs.[1] It was first published in July 1828,[2] making it the oldest surviving weekly magazine in the world.[3]

    In 2020, The Spectator became both the longest-lived current affairs magazine in history[6] and the first magazine ever to publish 10,000 issues.

    Look at just a partial list of contributors



  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,898

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    The Lib Dems are also staring at a REALLY bad general election, when they would normally hope to benefit from Tory travails

    I do not understand their inertia. The tactical move for them is obvious. Come out, loud and proud, as the party of Rejoin the EU immediately (after another referendum). There are enough hardcore Remoaners in southern England and the like to win them quite a few seats, indeed Remoaners tempted by Starmer might vote tactically for the LDs in the hope that they can pressure him towards Rejoin in a hung parliament

    What the F are they playing at? This would also bring them much needed attention

    It is amazing to me that no UK party is going out there swinging for the Rejoin vote, when the polls are clearly showing Brexit remorse

    That's an interesting idea but we need to get more precise with the language on this now. After nearly 7 years you can't be both a Remoaner and a Rejoiner. A Remoaner is passive, pissed off, backwards looking; a Rejoiner is head up, future facing, active.

    I avoid analogies as a rule, they're overdone in punditry and can easily slide into a silliness that helps no-one (eg Brexit is like changing a nappy), but a good way to illustrate what I mean here is to imagine your dog has shat on the carpet.

    In which case you can (i) sit there looking at it, grumbling at the mess, castigating the dog and yourself for failing to train it properly; or (ii) you can screw that for a game of soldiers and go, "right, let's get this cleared up!" and then think about getting a goldfish.

    Option (i) is Remoaning. Option (ii) is the can-do spirit of Rejoin.

    I'm a Remoaner btw. I'm still slumped in my chair gazing at the steaming pile of doo doo, chuntering how it shouldn't have happened, "why oh why oh why", unable (yet) to get up and do anything about it. But one day (and I'll let everyone know when this happens) I'll snap out of this and then I'll be a Remoaner no more. I'll be a Rejoiner.
    The thing is you and I didn't want the dog in the first place. Indeed, we raised some questions of what would happen to the cream carpets and the reasonably nice furniture. But we were overruled by our other half and their parents. This sort of thing happens, and is one of the spices of life. But they're not cleaning the mess up either, and sometimes hint that it's our fault for not training the dog properly.

    And the worst of it? It's getting to the point where we probably could phone up Battersea Dog's Home and ask them to take Nigel the Bulldog away. But we'd feel like utter scumbags for doing that. At least today we would...
    ‘you and I didn’t want the dog in the first place’

    =

    ‘These people never wanted to be parents in the first place”

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-brexit-is-just-like-having-a-baby/

    Brexit = Baby remains the greatest analogy in the history of PB - maybe in the history of humanity. We can only hope that one day the immortal @SeanT might one day *Rejoin* pb

    The analogy falls down because having a baby isn't that difficult and is a source of joy and fulfillment to the parents from day one. I'd say that Brexit is more like having a shit, one that turns out to be an unflushable turd. All that strain, followed by a bad smell and lingering embarrassment.
    Post-natal depression is not uncommon, and can be particularly difficult to deal with because you're supposed to be happy about having a baby.

    Will the Brexit baby blues pass?
    I'd say they lifted when it became clear we'd get vaccinated before most of Europe. If we just stick at steadily choosing to do the right thing for the UK, and diverging sensibly where necessary, those types of advantages will occur more frequently. It seems to me actually very hard work to be as shit at being out of the EU as we are at the moment.
    We were vaccinated before most of the rest of Europe because we have (probably) the best pharma industry in Europe. The vaccine "thing" is the Brexit apologists only argument and it is as vacuous and nonsensical as their lying bus slogan.
    But the only reason it's the 'only' argument is because of the unique circumstances that lead to it. Action was taken, under extreme pressure, by the UK Government, to do something that specifically served the UK's national interests, and its chosen instrument was a focused task-force that stood outside our own shitty civil service. And when the civil service took it over again, it flopped. One is justified in asking why there isn't be a borders task force, an exporting task force, a Northern Ireland task force - not because I particular love task forces, but because it stops our own crappy state apparatus from making such a shitty mess of everything - intentionally or otherwise.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,523
    Leon said:

    So it turns out there is a local posh-ish canteen which will deliver to my hotel a superb prawn laksa, Kyoto seaweed salad, Taiwanese hot soup dumplings and tremendous won ton, for £12. Door to hotel door in 35 minutes, after a couple of clicks on an iPhone: ie the perfect amount of time to have two G&Ts on the moonlit rooftop bar then go collect your food

    Bangkok in Jan-Feb is, verily, a kind of earthly paradise

    And now I get to watch “The Boys” with a nice bottle of 19 crimes. This, here, is mmmmmmmBOP

    Had some 19 crimes last night and will have some tonight, excellent wine. Not tempted by the one with coffee mind you.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,707
    Pulpstar said:

    I note my Biden heavyish POTUS position seems to have improved in the last fortnight or so.

    Yep. Opposite move on my (Trump) Big Short. Not worried though.
  • DJ41aDJ41a Posts: 174
    O/T: Israeli national security minister Ben Gvir has called on police to "prepare plans for Operation Defensive Shield 2 in East Jerusalem", the operation to begin next Sunday. That wouldn't be the same as ODS in the West Bank in 2002, which was carried out by the army. He means something though.

    If the British army had demolished the family homes of all captured or killed IRA men, the troubles would probably still be going on now.

    Interesting, this "sealing" of homes. Also happens in Xinjiang.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,440

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    The Lib Dems are also staring at a REALLY bad general election, when they would normally hope to benefit from Tory travails

    I do not understand their inertia. The tactical move for them is obvious. Come out, loud and proud, as the party of Rejoin the EU immediately (after another referendum). There are enough hardcore Remoaners in southern England and the like to win them quite a few seats, indeed Remoaners tempted by Starmer might vote tactically for the LDs in the hope that they can pressure him towards Rejoin in a hung parliament

    What the F are they playing at? This would also bring them much needed attention

    It is amazing to me that no UK party is going out there swinging for the Rejoin vote, when the polls are clearly showing Brexit remorse

    That's an interesting idea but we need to get more precise with the language on this now. After nearly 7 years you can't be both a Remoaner and a Rejoiner. A Remoaner is passive, pissed off, backwards looking; a Rejoiner is head up, future facing, active.

    I avoid analogies as a rule, they're overdone in punditry and can easily slide into a silliness that helps no-one (eg Brexit is like changing a nappy), but a good way to illustrate what I mean here is to imagine your dog has shat on the carpet.

    In which case you can (i) sit there looking at it, grumbling at the mess, castigating the dog and yourself for failing to train it properly; or (ii) you can screw that for a game of soldiers and go, "right, let's get this cleared up!" and then think about getting a goldfish.

    Option (i) is Remoaning. Option (ii) is the can-do spirit of Rejoin.

    I'm a Remoaner btw. I'm still slumped in my chair gazing at the steaming pile of doo doo, chuntering how it shouldn't have happened, "why oh why oh why", unable (yet) to get up and do anything about it. But one day (and I'll let everyone know when this happens) I'll snap out of this and then I'll be a Remoaner no more. I'll be a Rejoiner.
    The thing is you and I didn't want the dog in the first place. Indeed, we raised some questions of what would happen to the cream carpets and the reasonably nice furniture. But we were overruled by our other half and their parents. This sort of thing happens, and is one of the spices of life. But they're not cleaning the mess up either, and sometimes hint that it's our fault for not training the dog properly.

    And the worst of it? It's getting to the point where we probably could phone up Battersea Dog's Home and ask them to take Nigel the Bulldog away. But we'd feel like utter scumbags for doing that. At least today we would...
    I'm ok with the dog. I just wish I'd got one that didn't go round spouting analogies all the time.
    Some breeds will springer metaphor on you when you least expect it.
    I was cocker hoop when I saw your pun
    Some folk will clumber all over a comment to sniff out and retrieve a potential pun.
    One has to wonder what the pointer it all is
    Joining in does setter bad example ...
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,523
    Taz said:

    RMT rejects final offer.

    More strikes ahead.

    The RMT abandoned strikes for the queens funeral but went on strike before Xmas knowing it would harm the hospitality industry.

    I’ve gone from supporting them to saying fuck them. They’ve lost.

    https://twitter.com/rmtunion/status/1624070002637668357?s=61&t=RqKCY1QWy4KGLQf7g8XEqA

    Yes bunch of royalist chancers.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,310

    Leon said:

    ...

    Leon said:

    So it turns out there is a local posh-ish canteen which will deliver to my hotel a superb prawn laksa, Kyoto seaweed salad, Taiwanese hot soup dumplings and tremendous won ton, for £12. Door to hotel door in 35 minutes, after a couple of clicks on an iPhone: ie the perfect amount of time to have two G&Ts on the moonlit rooftop bar then go collect your food

    Bangkok in Jan-Feb is, verily, a kind of earthly paradise

    And now I get to watch “The Boys” with a nice bottle of 19 crimes. This, here, is mmmmmmmBOP

    Hoping 'The Boys' is a TV programme, though I suppose when in Bangkok...
    It is indeed a tv drama. It’s brilliant. It’s about superheroes turned corporate and gone bad

    The anti-Trumpite satire is occasionally overdone and the sizzling script can lapse into over-writing, and the hero Brit is obviously an Aussie (ie an Aussie doing cockney) but it’s also great fun. Hideously violent but in a cartoon way. Well worth a watch
    Thanks! I try and avoid very violent things. Don't need that in my brain.
    Definitely don't watch it, then.
    Not even the first episode.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,310
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    The Lib Dems are also staring at a REALLY bad general election, when they would normally hope to benefit from Tory travails

    I do not understand their inertia. The tactical move for them is obvious. Come out, loud and proud, as the party of Rejoin the EU immediately (after another referendum). There are enough hardcore Remoaners in southern England and the like to win them quite a few seats, indeed Remoaners tempted by Starmer might vote tactically for the LDs in the hope that they can pressure him towards Rejoin in a hung parliament

    What the F are they playing at? This would also bring them much needed attention

    It is amazing to me that no UK party is going out there swinging for the Rejoin vote, when the polls are clearly showing Brexit remorse

    That's an interesting idea but we need to get more precise with the language on this now. After nearly 7 years you can't be both a Remoaner and a Rejoiner. A Remoaner is passive, pissed off, backwards looking; a Rejoiner is head up, future facing, active.

    I avoid analogies as a rule, they're overdone in punditry and can easily slide into a silliness that helps no-one (eg Brexit is like changing a nappy), but a good way to illustrate what I mean here is to imagine your dog has shat on the carpet.

    In which case you can (i) sit there looking at it, grumbling at the mess, castigating the dog and yourself for failing to train it properly; or (ii) you can screw that for a game of soldiers and go, "right, let's get this cleared up!" and then think about getting a goldfish.

    Option (i) is Remoaning. Option (ii) is the can-do spirit of Rejoin.

    I'm a Remoaner btw. I'm still slumped in my chair gazing at the steaming pile of doo doo, chuntering how it shouldn't have happened, "why oh why oh why", unable (yet) to get up and do anything about it. But one day (and I'll let everyone know when this happens) I'll snap out of this and then I'll be a Remoaner no more. I'll be a Rejoiner.
    The thing is you and I didn't want the dog in the first place. Indeed, we raised some questions of what would happen to the cream carpets and the reasonably nice furniture. But we were overruled by our other half and their parents. This sort of thing happens, and is one of the spices of life. But they're not cleaning the mess up either, and sometimes hint that it's our fault for not training the dog properly.

    And the worst of it? It's getting to the point where we probably could phone up Battersea Dog's Home and ask them to take Nigel the Bulldog away. But we'd feel like utter scumbags for doing that. At least today we would...
    ‘you and I didn’t want the dog in the first place’

    =

    ‘These people never wanted to be parents in the first place”

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-brexit-is-just-like-having-a-baby/

    Brexit = Baby remains the greatest analogy in the history of PB - maybe in the history of humanity. We can only hope that one day the immortal @SeanT might one day *Rejoin* pb

    The analogy falls down because having a baby isn't that difficult and is a source of joy and fulfillment to the parents from day one. I'd say that Brexit is more like having a shit, one that turns out to be an unflushable turd. All that strain, followed by a bad smell and lingering embarrassment.
    This is why, like all of us, you don’t write for the most prestigious magazine in the world

    Did you get a gig with the Atlantic ?
    Congrats.
    The Spectator is a weekly British magazine on politics, culture, and current affairs.[1] It was first published in July 1828,[2] making it the oldest surviving weekly magazine in the world.[3]

    In 2020, The Spectator became both the longest-lived current affairs magazine in history[6] and the first magazine ever to publish 10,000 issues....
    Yes, it has a fine history.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,515

    Speaking of rail enthusiam, I'm watching through 'Walking Britain's Lost Railways' on the odd occasion at the moment; it's a nice programme to have on in the background.

    I am struck by the total spaghetti ball of railways that Britain used to be. Which surely means that releasing capacity on the WCML (if it is an issue of such national import that it's worth rinsing the nation for) could have been achieved more easily by reviving some of the other lines that criss-crossed the country. We know which lines worked and were busy, we know why, the ground work is mostly still there and not much has been built over the top since.

    That's a good idea, but reopenings are massively complex and expensive.

    Let's look at one example: March to Spalding. This 20-mile line only closed in 1982 to save £4 million in track renewel costs, and runs mainly across farmland. Nowadays it would prove to be a massively useful diversionary route for freight heading from the east coast ports to the north, avoiding Peterborough and busy sections of the ECML. I cannot remember the latest costs for the project, but they were eye-wateringly large.

    Or take March to Wisbech. An 8-mile line that yet again runs across flat Fenland, and was used for freight until 2000. The reopening cost for passengers is put at £200 million, with hundreds of thousands being spent just on studies.

    Of in another area, the Portishead Branch near Bristol. Or the Blethcley to Oxford line, which is currently being rebuilt at massive cost.

    It's not just a case of slapping down new sleepers and rails, as preservation societies would. Everything needs looking at, and bridges often need rebuilding or strengthening - witness the recent work on the Bletchley Flyover.

    Then there's the question of whether reopenings would actually reduce demand on the WCML: the old Great Central Railway is a non-starter for a number of very good reasons.
    I just don't see how the example of March to Wisbech above can cost £200mn. To me, that estimate must have flaws. I am too cynical and I don't have faith in those writing these things.
    There are certain aspects - these are all from distant memory, so please take with some caution. For one thing, the entire line will need to be relaid: and that's expensive in itself. The old station area in Wisbech has been redeveloped, so a new station will be built on the southern outskirts of the town, and suitable roads and infrastructure built to it. The linespeed needs to be increased, to get maximum benefit - and that means things like some cattle creeps and drainage bridges need rebuilding.

    But the main problems are roads: the line crosses several roads on the level, including the A47. As Network rail hates level crossings (and is doing what it can to remove existing ones), they will need to be replaced with bridges. And they're *really* expensive, especially in poor soil like the Fens.

    Stations can be expensive: the new Corby station, opened 15 years ago, cost just under ten million when the enabling works were included. Soham station, which opened recently, cost £18 million.

    So yes, it seems a lot. And it is. But that's because of the standards Network Rail has to build to. A preservation group could do it for an order of magnitude less: but I doubt they'd be allowed to cross the A47. But a preservation group would also be limited to LRO speeds of 25 MPH.
  • DJ41aDJ41a Posts: 174
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    The Lib Dems are also staring at a REALLY bad general election, when they would normally hope to benefit from Tory travails

    I do not understand their inertia. The tactical move for them is obvious. Come out, loud and proud, as the party of Rejoin the EU immediately (after another referendum). There are enough hardcore Remoaners in southern England and the like to win them quite a few seats, indeed Remoaners tempted by Starmer might vote tactically for the LDs in the hope that they can pressure him towards Rejoin in a hung parliament

    What the F are they playing at? This would also bring them much needed attention

    It is amazing to me that no UK party is going out there swinging for the Rejoin vote, when the polls are clearly showing Brexit remorse

    That's an interesting idea but we need to get more precise with the language on this now. After nearly 7 years you can't be both a Remoaner and a Rejoiner. A Remoaner is passive, pissed off, backwards looking; a Rejoiner is head up, future facing, active.

    I avoid analogies as a rule, they're overdone in punditry and can easily slide into a silliness that helps no-one (eg Brexit is like changing a nappy), but a good way to illustrate what I mean here is to imagine your dog has shat on the carpet.

    In which case you can (i) sit there looking at it, grumbling at the mess, castigating the dog and yourself for failing to train it properly; or (ii) you can screw that for a game of soldiers and go, "right, let's get this cleared up!" and then think about getting a goldfish.

    Option (i) is Remoaning. Option (ii) is the can-do spirit of Rejoin.

    I'm a Remoaner btw. I'm still slumped in my chair gazing at the steaming pile of doo doo, chuntering how it shouldn't have happened, "why oh why oh why", unable (yet) to get up and do anything about it. But one day (and I'll let everyone know when this happens) I'll snap out of this and then I'll be a Remoaner no more. I'll be a Rejoiner.
    The thing is you and I didn't want the dog in the first place. Indeed, we raised some questions of what would happen to the cream carpets and the reasonably nice furniture. But we were overruled by our other half and their parents. This sort of thing happens, and is one of the spices of life. But they're not cleaning the mess up either, and sometimes hint that it's our fault for not training the dog properly.

    And the worst of it? It's getting to the point where we probably could phone up Battersea Dog's Home and ask them to take Nigel the Bulldog away. But we'd feel like utter scumbags for doing that. At least today we would...
    ‘you and I didn’t want the dog in the first place’

    =

    ‘These people never wanted to be parents in the first place”

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-brexit-is-just-like-having-a-baby/

    Brexit = Baby remains the greatest analogy in the history of PB - maybe in the history of humanity. We can only hope that one day the immortal @SeanT might one day *Rejoin* pb

    The analogy falls down because having a baby isn't that difficult and is a source of joy and fulfillment to the parents from day one. I'd say that Brexit is more like having a shit, one that turns out to be an unflushable turd. All that strain, followed by a bad smell and lingering embarrassment.
    This is why, like all of us, you don’t write for the most prestigious magazine in the world

    Did you get a gig with the Atlantic ?
    Congrats.
    The Spectator is a weekly British magazine on politics, culture, and current affairs.[1] It was first published in July 1828,[2] making it the oldest surviving weekly magazine in the world.[3]

    In 2020, The Spectator became both the longest-lived current affairs magazine in history[6] and the first magazine ever to publish 10,000 issues....
    Does the print come off?
    Asking in case the Heil whips up another toilet paper shortage.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,310
    Possibly my favourite of all the Santos stories.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/feb/10/george-santos-puppy-theft-charge-romney-sinema
    ...On Thursday, Santos told Newsmax that the same night, the independent Arizona senator Kyrsten Sinema was “very polite, very kindhearted” and said: “Hang in there buddy.”

    On Friday, a spokesperson for Sinema told CNN: “This is a lie.”
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    So it turns out there is a local posh-ish canteen which will deliver to my hotel a superb prawn laksa, Kyoto seaweed salad, Taiwanese hot soup dumplings and tremendous won ton, for £12. Door to hotel door in 35 minutes, after a couple of clicks on an iPhone: ie the perfect amount of time to have two G&Ts on the moonlit rooftop bar then go collect your food

    Bangkok in Jan-Feb is, verily, a kind of earthly paradise

    And now I get to watch “The Boys” with a nice bottle of 19 crimes. This, here, is mmmmmmmBOP

    Had some 19 crimes last night and will have some tonight, excellent wine. Not tempted by the one with coffee mind you.
    19 crimes is a remarkable wine for the price. It’s not St Henri Shiraz or a Supertuscan, but for the money you pay: yay

    I dunno how the aussies do it. But it is a godsend in a country like Thailand where the tax on wine is insane. I used to fret over wines thrice the price (here in Bangkok). Now I just buy 19 crimes and I know it will always be jolly good and I know it will only cost me £11

  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005
    Russia launching cruise missiles originally with nuclear warheads, now removed, at Ukraine. Apparently they are used as decoys for air defence. Scraping the barrel.

    #Ukraine: The Ukrainian Air Command "South" reported a shooting down of one of Russian cruise missiles by a MANPADS today.

    The missile taken out is interesting and in fact a Russian ex-Nuclear Kh-55 with a KTS-120-12 inert warhead imitator launched as a decoy for AD systems.

    https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1624075218384830466?s=20&t=MXpt-3fmS3Sc6Q7L91t8mw
  • The Spectator is called the Eton Herald in my house
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,707
    Selebian said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    The Lib Dems are also staring at a REALLY bad general election, when they would normally hope to benefit from Tory travails

    I do not understand their inertia. The tactical move for them is obvious. Come out, loud and proud, as the party of Rejoin the EU immediately (after another referendum). There are enough hardcore Remoaners in southern England and the like to win them quite a few seats, indeed Remoaners tempted by Starmer might vote tactically for the LDs in the hope that they can pressure him towards Rejoin in a hung parliament

    What the F are they playing at? This would also bring them much needed attention

    It is amazing to me that no UK party is going out there swinging for the Rejoin vote, when the polls are clearly showing Brexit remorse

    That's an interesting idea but we need to get more precise with the language on this now. After nearly 7 years you can't be both a Remoaner and a Rejoiner. A Remoaner is passive, pissed off, backwards looking; a Rejoiner is head up, future facing, active.

    I avoid analogies as a rule, they're overdone in punditry and can easily slide into a silliness that helps no-one (eg Brexit is like changing a nappy), but a good way to illustrate what I mean here is to imagine your dog has shat on the carpet.

    In which case you can (i) sit there looking at it, grumbling at the mess, castigating the dog and yourself for failing to train it properly; or (ii) you can screw that for a game of soldiers and go, "right, let's get this cleared up!" and then think about getting a goldfish.

    Option (i) is Remoaning. Option (ii) is the can-do spirit of Rejoin.

    I'm a Remoaner btw. I'm still slumped in my chair gazing at the steaming pile of doo doo, chuntering how it shouldn't have happened, "why oh why oh why", unable (yet) to get up and do anything about it. But one day (and I'll let everyone know when this happens) I'll snap out of this and then I'll be a Remoaner no more. I'll be a Rejoiner.
    The thing is you and I didn't want the dog in the first place. Indeed, we raised some questions of what would happen to the cream carpets and the reasonably nice furniture. But we were overruled by our other half and their parents. This sort of thing happens, and is one of the spices of life. But they're not cleaning the mess up either, and sometimes hint that it's our fault for not training the dog properly.

    And the worst of it? It's getting to the point where we probably could phone up Battersea Dog's Home and ask them to take Nigel the Bulldog away. But we'd feel like utter scumbags for doing that. At least today we would...
    ‘you and I didn’t want the dog in the first place’

    =

    ‘These people never wanted to be parents in the first place”

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-brexit-is-just-like-having-a-baby/

    Brexit = Baby remains the greatest analogy in the history of PB - maybe in the history of humanity. We can only hope that one day the immortal @SeanT might one day *Rejoin* pb

    The analogy falls down because having a baby isn't that difficult and is a source of joy and fulfillment to the parents from day one. I'd say that Brexit is more like having a shit, one that turns out to be an unflushable turd. All that strain, followed by a bad smell and lingering embarrassment.
    This is why, like all of us, you don’t write for the most prestigious magazine in the world

    Most prestigious magazine in the world?
    [Coughs modestly]
    Actually, I did write a few articles for Linux Journal. Not within the past decade though, I will give you that.
    Tried to get a paper into Nature once. It ended up several rungs down the ladder in a still excellent journal. Never had a chance as it was some random jawbone of yet another hominid from East Africa...
    Ah yes... I also have a Nature paper. Two actually. Well, they're in Pediatric Research but the article URL is under nature.com :smile:
    That's great. I also have 2 things published. First was at the age of 15 - a letter in the Daily Express which they liked so much they printed it under the title Young Voice Of Britain. There was then a gap of around 20 years before I emerged again with quite a dense piece called "Buy or Build?" in International Securities Lending. Nothing since.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,515
    Carnyx said:

    Speaking of rail enthusiam, I'm watching through 'Walking Britain's Lost Railways' on the odd occasion at the moment; it's a nice programme to have on in the background.

    I am struck by the total spaghetti ball of railways that Britain used to be. Which surely means that releasing capacity on the WCML (if it is an issue of such national import that it's worth rinsing the nation for) could have been achieved more easily by reviving some of the other lines that criss-crossed the country. We know which lines worked and were busy, we know why, the ground work is mostly still there and not much has been built over the top since.

    That's a good idea, but reopenings are massively complex and expensive.

    Let's look at one example: March to Spalding. This 20-mile line only closed in 1982 to save £4 million in track renewel costs, and runs mainly across farmland. Nowadays it would prove to be a massively useful diversionary route for freight heading from the east coast ports to the north, avoiding Peterborough and busy sections of the ECML. I cannot remember the latest costs for the project, but they were eye-wateringly large.

    Or take March to Wisbech. An 8-mile line that yet again runs across flat Fenland, and was used for freight until 2000. The reopening cost for passengers is put at £200 million, with hundreds of thousands being spent just on studies.

    Of in another area, the Portishead Branch near Bristol. Or the Blethcley to Oxford line, which is currently being rebuilt at massive cost.

    It's not just a case of slapping down new sleepers and rails, as preservation societies would. Everything needs looking at, and bridges often need rebuilding or strengthening - witness the recent work on the Bletchley Flyover.

    Then there's the question of whether reopenings would actually reduce demand on the WCML: the old Great Central Railway is a non-starter for a number of very good reasons.
    Wasn't the BR property board made to sell off its properties, or was it allowed to keep a strategic element?
    I obviously wasn't around, but my understanding was that they were made to sell the land off piecemeal. IMV it was an absolute disaster; worse than the actual closures themselves. Look at how a forward-looking council like Derbyshire bought the Cromford and High Peak and Tissington lines and turned them into cycle paths. we could have had a very large network of walking and cycle paths around the country, with land being sold only when it was needed for something of national importance. But then there would be large costs with structures - and which causes problems even now, with the recent infilling controversy.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832
    edited February 2023
    kinabalu said:

    Selebian said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    The Lib Dems are also staring at a REALLY bad general election, when they would normally hope to benefit from Tory travails

    I do not understand their inertia. The tactical move for them is obvious. Come out, loud and proud, as the party of Rejoin the EU immediately (after another referendum). There are enough hardcore Remoaners in southern England and the like to win them quite a few seats, indeed Remoaners tempted by Starmer might vote tactically for the LDs in the hope that they can pressure him towards Rejoin in a hung parliament

    What the F are they playing at? This would also bring them much needed attention

    It is amazing to me that no UK party is going out there swinging for the Rejoin vote, when the polls are clearly showing Brexit remorse

    That's an interesting idea but we need to get more precise with the language on this now. After nearly 7 years you can't be both a Remoaner and a Rejoiner. A Remoaner is passive, pissed off, backwards looking; a Rejoiner is head up, future facing, active.

    I avoid analogies as a rule, they're overdone in punditry and can easily slide into a silliness that helps no-one (eg Brexit is like changing a nappy), but a good way to illustrate what I mean here is to imagine your dog has shat on the carpet.

    In which case you can (i) sit there looking at it, grumbling at the mess, castigating the dog and yourself for failing to train it properly; or (ii) you can screw that for a game of soldiers and go, "right, let's get this cleared up!" and then think about getting a goldfish.

    Option (i) is Remoaning. Option (ii) is the can-do spirit of Rejoin.

    I'm a Remoaner btw. I'm still slumped in my chair gazing at the steaming pile of doo doo, chuntering how it shouldn't have happened, "why oh why oh why", unable (yet) to get up and do anything about it. But one day (and I'll let everyone know when this happens) I'll snap out of this and then I'll be a Remoaner no more. I'll be a Rejoiner.
    The thing is you and I didn't want the dog in the first place. Indeed, we raised some questions of what would happen to the cream carpets and the reasonably nice furniture. But we were overruled by our other half and their parents. This sort of thing happens, and is one of the spices of life. But they're not cleaning the mess up either, and sometimes hint that it's our fault for not training the dog properly.

    And the worst of it? It's getting to the point where we probably could phone up Battersea Dog's Home and ask them to take Nigel the Bulldog away. But we'd feel like utter scumbags for doing that. At least today we would...
    ‘you and I didn’t want the dog in the first place’

    =

    ‘These people never wanted to be parents in the first place”

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-brexit-is-just-like-having-a-baby/

    Brexit = Baby remains the greatest analogy in the history of PB - maybe in the history of humanity. We can only hope that one day the immortal @SeanT might one day *Rejoin* pb

    The analogy falls down because having a baby isn't that difficult and is a source of joy and fulfillment to the parents from day one. I'd say that Brexit is more like having a shit, one that turns out to be an unflushable turd. All that strain, followed by a bad smell and lingering embarrassment.
    This is why, like all of us, you don’t write for the most prestigious magazine in the world

    Most prestigious magazine in the world?
    [Coughs modestly]
    Actually, I did write a few articles for Linux Journal. Not within the past decade though, I will give you that.
    Tried to get a paper into Nature once. It ended up several rungs down the ladder in a still excellent journal. Never had a chance as it was some random jawbone of yet another hominid from East Africa...
    Ah yes... I also have a Nature paper. Two actually. Well, they're in Pediatric Research but the article URL is under nature.com :smile:
    That's great. I also have 2 things published. First was at the age of 15 - a letter in the Daily Express which they liked so much they printed it under the title Young Voice Of Britain. There was then a gap of around 20 years before I emerged again with quite a dense piece called "Buy or Build?" in International Securities Lending. Nothing since.
    Daily Express?! :open_mouth:

    Were you a young Tory along the lines of Hague? Or was the Express different then? Or was it accompanied by an editorial on all that was wrong with the Young Voice Of Britain?

    ETA: And what was the conclusion for the second piece? Buy? Build? And were you right?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,972
    YouGov, Germany:

    CDU/CSU 27%
    SPD 19%
    AfD 17%
    Green 16%
    FDP 6%
    Left 6%
    Others 9%

    https://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,060
    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    So it turns out there is a local posh-ish canteen which will deliver to my hotel a superb prawn laksa, Kyoto seaweed salad, Taiwanese hot soup dumplings and tremendous won ton, for £12. Door to hotel door in 35 minutes, after a couple of clicks on an iPhone: ie the perfect amount of time to have two G&Ts on the moonlit rooftop bar then go collect your food

    Bangkok in Jan-Feb is, verily, a kind of earthly paradise

    And now I get to watch “The Boys” with a nice bottle of 19 crimes. This, here, is mmmmmmmBOP

    Had some 19 crimes last night and will have some tonight, excellent wine. Not tempted by the one with coffee mind you.
    My neighbours glass bin is full of this wine. I will have to give it a go. A couple of my colleagues at work love it too.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,042

    I should be the ideal young Tory voter.

    Own a house, work in the private sector, earn very well and I am a hard worker.

    Yet the Tories continue to drift away from me. One day this will cause them a lot of problems, that day will yet come.

    I'm never going to be a Tory, but working in the financial sector I am surrounded by people who are, who used to be or who should be (and it may surprise some to learn that I get on with them very well). From talking to them it's clear that the Tories have lost much of their natural support in the last few years. It's similar to what one hears on here, but from people who are much less politically engaged, and thus rather more representative of the population a whole.
    Brexit started it off and the Tories have continued destroying all the work Cameron did.

    I know people think Johnson's party was more "in touch" but their obsession with trans people, the EU and immigrants just doesn't resonate with my/our folk. They're losing them by going on about this nonsense. And they've now shredded their economic credentials too.

    The Tory Party will rediscover Cameron/Blair at some point. But they are going to have to lose and lose big - and long term that is what is needed. It saved Labour.
    Johnson, even May got a higher voteshare than Cameron ever did.

    Even Corbyn got a higher voteshare in 2017 than Blair did in 2005.

    Blair 1997 and 2001 was unbeatable but it was all downhill from there.

    Cameron managed most seats in a hung parliament in 2010, scraped a majority in 2015 but lost lots of votes to UKIP then too, with Farage's party getting 12% of the vote
  • DJ41aDJ41a Posts: 174
    edited February 2023
    Remember November when Ukraine launched a missile that landed in Poland where it killed two people. Ukraine said Russia did it. In fact it was Ukraine that did it.

    Today Russian missiles crossed Moldovan airspace. That's according to the Moldovan government. Think of that what you will. Ukraine, however, said the missiles also crossed Romanian airspace.

    Romania said they didn't do any such thing.

    Romania is a NATO member. Probably most people there would like to see the back of the Zelensky government.

    As for Moldova, the government there fell today. Reuters tight-lippedly call it a "pro-western" government. What could they be suggesting?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,950
    DJ41a said:

    Remember November when Ukraine launched a missile that landed in Poland where it killed two people. Ukraine said Russia did it. In fact it was Ukraine that did it.

    Today Russian missiles crossed Moldovan airspace. That's according to the Moldovan government. Think of that what you will. Ukraine, however, said the missiles also crossed Romanian airspace.

    Romania said they didn't do any such thing.

    Romania is a NATO member. Probably most people there would like to see the back of the Zelensky government.

    As for Moldova, the government there fell today. Reuters tight-lippedly call it a "pro-western" government. What could they be suggesting?

    I don't know about anyone else, but I haven't a clue what point you are trying to make.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,060
    Selebian said:

    Taz said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    So it turns out there is a local posh-ish canteen which will deliver to my hotel a superb prawn laksa, Kyoto seaweed salad, Taiwanese hot soup dumplings and tremendous won ton, for £12. Door to hotel door in 35 minutes, after a couple of clicks on an iPhone: ie the perfect amount of time to have two G&Ts on the moonlit rooftop bar then go collect your food

    Bangkok in Jan-Feb is, verily, a kind of earthly paradise

    And now I get to watch “The Boys” with a nice bottle of 19 crimes. This, here, is mmmmmmmBOP

    Had some 19 crimes last night and will have some tonight, excellent wine. Not tempted by the one with coffee mind you.
    My neighbours glass bin is full of this wine. I will have to give it a go. A couple of my colleagues at work love it too.
    I'd suggest buying a bottle. The stuff in the bin has most likely oxidised and will be a bit vinegary :wink:
    😂😂😂😂

    They drain every last drop. So no free samples here !
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,321

    Brexit started it off and the Tories have continued destroying all the work Cameron did.

    I know people think Johnson's party was more "in touch" but their obsession with trans people, the EU and immigrants just doesn't resonate with my/our folk. They're losing them by going on about this nonsense. And they've now shredded their economic credentials too.

    The Tory Party will rediscover Cameron/Blair at some point. But they are going to have to lose and lose big - and long term that is what is needed. It saved Labour.

    The irony of that post is that most of the things you object to about the current incarnation of the Tory party are very much a continuation of Blairite tabloid-driven politics. You could take countless statements by New Labour ministers and put them in the mouths of Suella Braverman or Priti Patel, and they would generate a cacophony of outrage about how far we've supposedly fallen.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,950
    HYUFD said:

    I should be the ideal young Tory voter.

    Own a house, work in the private sector, earn very well and I am a hard worker.

    Yet the Tories continue to drift away from me. One day this will cause them a lot of problems, that day will yet come.

    I'm never going to be a Tory, but working in the financial sector I am surrounded by people who are, who used to be or who should be (and it may surprise some to learn that I get on with them very well). From talking to them it's clear that the Tories have lost much of their natural support in the last few years. It's similar to what one hears on here, but from people who are much less politically engaged, and thus rather more representative of the population a whole.
    Brexit started it off and the Tories have continued destroying all the work Cameron did.

    I know people think Johnson's party was more "in touch" but their obsession with trans people, the EU and immigrants just doesn't resonate with my/our folk. They're losing them by going on about this nonsense. And they've now shredded their economic credentials too.

    The Tory Party will rediscover Cameron/Blair at some point. But they are going to have to lose and lose big - and long term that is what is needed. It saved Labour.
    Johnson, even May got a higher voteshare than Cameron ever did.

    Even Corbyn got a higher voteshare in 2017 than Blair did in 2005.

    Blair 1997 and 2001 was unbeatable but it was all downhill from there.

    Cameron managed most seats in a hung parliament in 2010, scraped a majority in 2015 but lost lots of votes to UKIP then too, with Farage's party getting 12% of the vote
    Isn't a lot of that a consequence of whether the LD vote share is high or low.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,042
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    I should be the ideal young Tory voter.

    Own a house, work in the private sector, earn very well and I am a hard worker.

    Yet the Tories continue to drift away from me. One day this will cause them a lot of problems, that day will yet come.

    I'm never going to be a Tory, but working in the financial sector I am surrounded by people who are, who used to be or who should be (and it may surprise some to learn that I get on with them very well). From talking to them it's clear that the Tories have lost much of their natural support in the last few years. It's similar to what one hears on here, but from people who are much less politically engaged, and thus rather more representative of the population a whole.
    Brexit started it off and the Tories have continued destroying all the work Cameron did.

    I know people think Johnson's party was more "in touch" but their obsession with trans people, the EU and immigrants just doesn't resonate with my/our folk. They're losing them by going on about this nonsense. And they've now shredded their economic credentials too.

    The Tory Party will rediscover Cameron/Blair at some point. But they are going to have to lose and lose big - and long term that is what is needed. It saved Labour.
    Johnson, even May got a higher voteshare than Cameron ever did.

    Even Corbyn got a higher voteshare in 2017 than Blair did in 2005.

    Blair 1997 and 2001 was unbeatable but it was all downhill from there.

    Cameron managed most seats in a hung parliament in 2010, scraped a majority in 2015 but lost lots of votes to UKIP then too, with Farage's party getting 12% of the vote
    Isn't a lot of that a consequence of whether the LD vote share is high or low.
    It is fair to say in 2015 Cameron squeezed the LD vote heavily. However he also lost lots of voters to his right to UKIP.

    Hence May and Johnson got a higher voteshare than he did and Johnson got a bigger majority in 2019 than he did in 2015.

    Cameron appealed more to the upper middle class than Boris no doubt. Boris however appealed more to the lower middle class and working class than Cameron
  • DJ41aDJ41a Posts: 174
    edited February 2023
    kjh said:

    DJ41a said:

    Remember November when Ukraine launched a missile that landed in Poland where it killed two people. Ukraine said Russia did it. In fact it was Ukraine that did it.

    Today Russian missiles crossed Moldovan airspace. That's according to the Moldovan government. Think of that what you will. Ukraine, however, said the missiles also crossed Romanian airspace.

    Romania said they didn't do any such thing.

    Romania is a NATO member. Probably most people there would like to see the back of the Zelensky government.

    As for Moldova, the government there fell today. Reuters tight-lippedly call it a "pro-western" government. What could they be suggesting?

    I don't know about anyone else, but I haven't a clue what point you are trying to make.
    Last year the government in Moldova said that the protests that called on it to resign were the work of pro-Russian elements. Today the government resigned.

    I'm no Moldova head but that Reuters article seems to be preparing audiences for the line that Russia has a lot of influence inside Moldova. It will be interesting to see what the incoming government says (and does). The poor b*stards may be told they have to choose between the EU and Russia - one or the other. Told by the EU, that is. And perhaps they have already chosen. This is the kind of cr*p that once manifested in Kiev.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,807
    AlistairM said:

    Russia launching cruise missiles originally with nuclear warheads, now removed, at Ukraine. Apparently they are used as decoys for air defence. Scraping the barrel.

    #Ukraine: The Ukrainian Air Command "South" reported a shooting down of one of Russian cruise missiles by a MANPADS today.

    The missile taken out is interesting and in fact a Russian ex-Nuclear Kh-55 with a KTS-120-12 inert warhead imitator launched as a decoy for AD systems.

    https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1624075218384830466?s=20&t=MXpt-3fmS3Sc6Q7L91t8mw

    They were doing this months ago, so they've been scraping that barrel for a while now.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,515
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    The Lib Dems are also staring at a REALLY bad general election, when they would normally hope to benefit from Tory travails

    I do not understand their inertia. The tactical move for them is obvious. Come out, loud and proud, as the party of Rejoin the EU immediately (after another referendum). There are enough hardcore Remoaners in southern England and the like to win them quite a few seats, indeed Remoaners tempted by Starmer might vote tactically for the LDs in the hope that they can pressure him towards Rejoin in a hung parliament

    What the F are they playing at? This would also bring them much needed attention

    It is amazing to me that no UK party is going out there swinging for the Rejoin vote, when the polls are clearly showing Brexit remorse

    That's an interesting idea but we need to get more precise with the language on this now. After nearly 7 years you can't be both a Remoaner and a Rejoiner. A Remoaner is passive, pissed off, backwards looking; a Rejoiner is head up, future facing, active.

    I avoid analogies as a rule, they're overdone in punditry and can easily slide into a silliness that helps no-one (eg Brexit is like changing a nappy), but a good way to illustrate what I mean here is to imagine your dog has shat on the carpet.

    In which case you can (i) sit there looking at it, grumbling at the mess, castigating the dog and yourself for failing to train it properly; or (ii) you can screw that for a game of soldiers and go, "right, let's get this cleared up!" and then think about getting a goldfish.

    Option (i) is Remoaning. Option (ii) is the can-do spirit of Rejoin.

    I'm a Remoaner btw. I'm still slumped in my chair gazing at the steaming pile of doo doo, chuntering how it shouldn't have happened, "why oh why oh why", unable (yet) to get up and do anything about it. But one day (and I'll let everyone know when this happens) I'll snap out of this and then I'll be a Remoaner no more. I'll be a Rejoiner.
    The thing is you and I didn't want the dog in the first place. Indeed, we raised some questions of what would happen to the cream carpets and the reasonably nice furniture. But we were overruled by our other half and their parents. This sort of thing happens, and is one of the spices of life. But they're not cleaning the mess up either, and sometimes hint that it's our fault for not training the dog properly.

    And the worst of it? It's getting to the point where we probably could phone up Battersea Dog's Home and ask them to take Nigel the Bulldog away. But we'd feel like utter scumbags for doing that. At least today we would...
    ‘you and I didn’t want the dog in the first place’

    =

    ‘These people never wanted to be parents in the first place”

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-brexit-is-just-like-having-a-baby/

    Brexit = Baby remains the greatest analogy in the history of PB - maybe in the history of humanity. We can only hope that one day the immortal @SeanT might one day *Rejoin* pb

    The analogy falls down because having a baby isn't that difficult and is a source of joy and fulfillment to the parents from day one. I'd say that Brexit is more like having a shit, one that turns out to be an unflushable turd. All that strain, followed by a bad smell and lingering embarrassment.
    This is why, like all of us, you don’t write for the most prestigious magazine in the world

    Did you get a gig with the Atlantic ?
    Congrats.

    The Spectator is a weekly British magazine on politics, culture, and current affairs.[1] It was first published in July 1828,[2] making it the oldest surviving weekly magazine in the world.[3]

    In 2020, The Spectator became both the longest-lived current affairs magazine in history[6] and the first magazine ever to publish 10,000 issues.
    (Snip)
    Tell me when you write regularly for a good publication, like the Economist. ;)

    (runs for cover)
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    kjh said:

    DJ41a said:

    Remember November when Ukraine launched a missile that landed in Poland where it killed two people. Ukraine said Russia did it. In fact it was Ukraine that did it.

    Today Russian missiles crossed Moldovan airspace. That's according to the Moldovan government. Think of that what you will. Ukraine, however, said the missiles also crossed Romanian airspace.

    Romania said they didn't do any such thing.

    Romania is a NATO member. Probably most people there would like to see the back of the Zelensky government.

    As for Moldova, the government there fell today. Reuters tight-lippedly call it a "pro-western" government. What could they be suggesting?

    I don't know about anyone else, but I haven't a clue what point you are trying to make.
    Its the twisted rantings of someone trying to turn British readers against Ukraine and towards Russia. He knows he will get laughed out of town if he does it directly so has to do these complex, nonsensical arguments.

    It is still pointless, because the British are a civilized people, whether Tory, Labour or Lib Dem. There is no way we would ever support the tin pot Gollum or Russia's criminal culture. Even while we grieve for the innocent Ukrainian lives brutalized from Russia's gross inadequacy complex, we still look forward to Russia's inevitable humiliating retreat.

    Russia's long term future is as cucks to the Chinese. Maybe some breakway regions can escape this to become members of the civilized West.
This discussion has been closed.