Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

A Royal Rumble – politicalbetting.com

245

Comments

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,195

    Scott_xP said:

    DavidL said:

    If he didn't disclose it he should go. If he did they should go. Either way heads should roll for this.

    In 1997 the corridors of the BBC were lined with empty champagne bottles (allegedly)

    I don't see that happening this time...

    I am expecting a wholesale cull of Tory appointed quangocrats and other hangers on
    No need for allegedly, it’s a direct quote from a BBC employee at the time.
    Is there any supportive evidence such as photos? Or is it just an urban tale?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited January 2023
    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    DavidL said:

    If he didn't disclose it he should go. If he did they should go. Either way heads should roll for this.

    In 1997 the corridors of the BBC were lined with empty champagne bottles (allegedly)

    I don't see that happening this time...

    I am expecting a wholesale cull of Tory appointed quangocrats and other hangers on
    No need for allegedly, it’s a direct quote from a BBC employee at the time.
    Is there any supportive evidence such as photos? Or is it just an urban tale?
    Jane Garvey said it live on Radio 5.....when remembering 10 years of Labour government.

    "Ah, well – I had been up for most of the night but I was doing this Five Live breakfast programme with our colleague at the time – it was a bloke called Peter Allen so – I had to get a bit of sleep, and I do remember I walked back into – we were broadcasting then from Broadcasting House in the centre of London – all very upmarket in those days – and the corridors of Broadcasting House were strewn with empty champagne bottles – I will always remember that (Allen laughs) – er – not that the BBC were celebrating in any way shape or form (Allen, laughing – ‘no, no, no, not at all’) – and actually – I think it’s fair to say that in the intervening years the BBC, if it was ever in love with Labour has probably fallen out of love with Labour, or learned to fall back in, or basically just learned to be in the middle somewhere which is how it should be – um – but there was always this suggestion that the BBC was full of pinkoes who couldn’t wait for Labour to get back into power – that may have been the case, who knows ? but as I say I think there’ve been a few problems along the way – wish I hadn’t started this now…"
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,481
    Some goal from Rashford.
    We may have a title race.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,195

    What ever happened to Tony Blair's vision for the NHS computer systems....

    “Pointless” bureaucracy is helping hospitals grind to a halt, a leading doctor has warned.

    Dr Gordon Caldwell, who has just retired after 40 years as an NHS hospital consultant, said “horribly inefficient” paperwork around patients moving in and out of wards is fuelling record delays.

    The senior doctor took a photograph of all the forms required for one medical admission to an NHS hospital, laid against his 5ft 10in frame.

    Dr Caldwell said promises by the NHS to “digitise” the health service had simply seen needless bureaucracy transferred on to poor computer systems that were often incompatible with each other.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/21/pictured-doctor-shows-army-pointless-forms-burying-nhs-hospitals/

    He doesn't seem to have noticed that one cause of pharmacy delays is that 25% of hospital pharmacist posts are vacant.
  • Just to say this is one of the most one eyed, pointless thread headers we have had on PB for a long time and only serves to illustrate TSE's own profound bias regarding the Monarchy.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,040
    dixiedean said:

    Some goal from Rashford.
    We may have a title race.

    He's still 2 behind Haarland on the day. That man is a machine and having him supplied by de Bruyne is positively unfair.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    I found this take odd - I'd have thought Boris stumping for Ukraine would be a perfect thing for him to do as far as Rishi was concerned.

    Despite claims it would undermine Rishi Sunak’s authority, Boris Johnson has made a surprise visit to Ukraine.

    He’s been seen in Borodianka and Bucha in the Kyiv region.


    https://twitter.com/JamWaterhouse/status/1617131457784193025?cxt=HHwWgoCxhcafmvEsAAAA
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,320
    Tory fanbois now moaning about champagne bottles a full 26 years ago.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,743
    Ydoethur will correct me if I’m wrong, I know, but my memory of history lessons suggests that bad feeling between the sovereign and the heir and between the heir and the spare is by no means unusual.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited January 2023

    Tory fanbois now moaning about champagne bottles a full 26 years ago.

    Who is moaning. Scott n Paste brought it up, who given his posts I have this sneaking suspicion that he might not be a fan of the Tory government. While other well known BBC employees like Andrew Marr have talked about the culture of BBC having a groupthink problem that is very much aligned with an youth obsessed / metropolitan liberal elite (not necessarily a political party).
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,040
    Foxy said:

    What ever happened to Tony Blair's vision for the NHS computer systems....

    “Pointless” bureaucracy is helping hospitals grind to a halt, a leading doctor has warned.

    Dr Gordon Caldwell, who has just retired after 40 years as an NHS hospital consultant, said “horribly inefficient” paperwork around patients moving in and out of wards is fuelling record delays.

    The senior doctor took a photograph of all the forms required for one medical admission to an NHS hospital, laid against his 5ft 10in frame.

    Dr Caldwell said promises by the NHS to “digitise” the health service had simply seen needless bureaucracy transferred on to poor computer systems that were often incompatible with each other.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/21/pictured-doctor-shows-army-pointless-forms-burying-nhs-hospitals/

    He doesn't seem to have noticed that one cause of pharmacy delays is that 25% of hospital pharmacist posts are vacant.
    My mother in law was coming out of hospital on Thursday. She was all set to go at 10am but did not manage to leave the hospital until after 7pm. She is elderly, frail and just a little wandered. In my experience this happens every time someone is trying to get out of hospital: they always end up waiting hours for pharmacy. It's ridiculous. Your vacancies must be a part of the explanation but the lack of urgency is shocking.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,743
    Foxy said:

    What ever happened to Tony Blair's vision for the NHS computer systems....

    “Pointless” bureaucracy is helping hospitals grind to a halt, a leading doctor has warned.

    Dr Gordon Caldwell, who has just retired after 40 years as an NHS hospital consultant, said “horribly inefficient” paperwork around patients moving in and out of wards is fuelling record delays.

    The senior doctor took a photograph of all the forms required for one medical admission to an NHS hospital, laid against his 5ft 10in frame.

    Dr Caldwell said promises by the NHS to “digitise” the health service had simply seen needless bureaucracy transferred on to poor computer systems that were often incompatible with each other.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/21/pictured-doctor-shows-army-pointless-forms-burying-nhs-hospitals/

    He doesn't seem to have noticed that one cause of pharmacy delays is that 25% of hospital pharmacist posts are vacant.
    My recent hospital stay didn’t suggest that there was an army of pointless forms!
    On the contrary, the paperwork was quite good.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591

    Scott_xP said:

    @TelePolitics: 🔴 Voters believe Labour is twice as likely to cut taxes as the Conservatives, polling for The Telegraph reveals https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/01/21/labour-twice-likely-cut-taxes-conservatives-say-voters/

    Which makes it clear voters have forgotten what labour governments actually do.
    Leaving aside what might actually happen, it shows that the 'time for a change' factor will be very powerful at the next election, as people will project whatever they want as being what they think Labour will do. A very good sign for them.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,699

    What ever happened to Tony Blair's vision for the NHS computer systems....

    “Pointless” bureaucracy is helping hospitals grind to a halt, a leading doctor has warned.

    Dr Gordon Caldwell, who has just retired after 40 years as an NHS hospital consultant, said “horribly inefficient” paperwork around patients moving in and out of wards is fuelling record delays.

    The senior doctor took a photograph of all the forms required for one medical admission to an NHS hospital, laid against his 5ft 10in frame.

    Dr Caldwell said promises by the NHS to “digitise” the health service had simply seen needless bureaucracy transferred on to poor computer systems that were often incompatible with each other.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/21/pictured-doctor-shows-army-pointless-forms-burying-nhs-hospitals/

    One of the reasons for this is patient safety. Spend any time in hospital and you will become wearily familiar with your name and dob being checked every 5 minutes. It’s about reducing medical errors.
    That said, those forms look a tad excessive.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,195

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    DavidL said:

    If he didn't disclose it he should go. If he did they should go. Either way heads should roll for this.

    In 1997 the corridors of the BBC were lined with empty champagne bottles (allegedly)

    I don't see that happening this time...

    I am expecting a wholesale cull of Tory appointed quangocrats and other hangers on
    No need for allegedly, it’s a direct quote from a BBC employee at the time.
    Is there any supportive evidence such as photos? Or is it just an urban tale?
    Jane Garvey said it live on Radio 5.....when remembering 10 years of Labour government.

    "Ah, well – I had been up for most of the night but I was doing this Five Live breakfast programme with our colleague at the time – it was a bloke called Peter Allen so – I had to get a bit of sleep, and I do remember I walked back into – we were broadcasting then from Broadcasting House in the centre of London – all very upmarket in those days – and the corridors of Broadcasting House were strewn with empty champagne bottles – I will always remember that (Allen laughs) – er – not that the BBC were celebrating in any way shape or form (Allen, laughing – ‘no, no, no, not at all’) – and actually – I think it’s fair to say that in the intervening years the BBC, if it was ever in love with Labour has probably fallen out of love with Labour, or learned to fall back in, or basically just learned to be in the middle somewhere which is how it should be – um – but there was always this suggestion that the BBC was full of pinkoes who couldn’t wait for Labour to get back into power – that may have been the case, who knows ? but as I say I think there’ve been a few problems along the way – wish I hadn’t started this now…"
    So, said years later in a moment of hyperbole with no contemporaneous evidence or accounts.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591

    Ydoethur will correct me if I’m wrong, I know, but my memory of history lessons suggests that bad feeling between the sovereign and the heir and between the heir and the spare is by no means unusual.

    I recently read about Edward VII, with it stating it was the first time in generations the heir and monarch had not been at odds with each other very obviously.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,481

    Foxy said:

    What ever happened to Tony Blair's vision for the NHS computer systems....

    “Pointless” bureaucracy is helping hospitals grind to a halt, a leading doctor has warned.

    Dr Gordon Caldwell, who has just retired after 40 years as an NHS hospital consultant, said “horribly inefficient” paperwork around patients moving in and out of wards is fuelling record delays.

    The senior doctor took a photograph of all the forms required for one medical admission to an NHS hospital, laid against his 5ft 10in frame.

    Dr Caldwell said promises by the NHS to “digitise” the health service had simply seen needless bureaucracy transferred on to poor computer systems that were often incompatible with each other.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/21/pictured-doctor-shows-army-pointless-forms-burying-nhs-hospitals/

    He doesn't seem to have noticed that one cause of pharmacy delays is that 25% of hospital pharmacist posts are vacant.
    My recent hospital stay didn’t suggest that there was an army of pointless forms!
    On the contrary, the paperwork was quite good.
    A parent or student at any school wouldn't think there was much paperwork.
    There isn't for the user.
  • boulay said:

    Totally off topic but if anyone has Disney + may I recommend watching “The Menu”. It’s the film Glass Onion tried to be. A mysterious selection of guests invited to an island with a murder mystery type situation where there are clearly connections between guests but how will it all pan out. A very darkly funny film where Ralph Fiennes channels the quiet menace he did in Red Dragon and Schindlers List. A very original twist on that sort of genre. One of the first films I have watched for a long time where I haven’t googled the story so I didn’t have to concentrate but just wanted to see how it panned out.

    On my list to watch. Ralph Fiennes is one of the true modern greats of acting in my opinion.

    A good friend has also sent me a DVD of Banshees of Inisherin along with a note saying it is one of the best films he has watched in many years so that will also get a viewing over the next couple of days.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,699
    Foxy said:

    What ever happened to Tony Blair's vision for the NHS computer systems....

    “Pointless” bureaucracy is helping hospitals grind to a halt, a leading doctor has warned.

    Dr Gordon Caldwell, who has just retired after 40 years as an NHS hospital consultant, said “horribly inefficient” paperwork around patients moving in and out of wards is fuelling record delays.

    The senior doctor took a photograph of all the forms required for one medical admission to an NHS hospital, laid against his 5ft 10in frame.

    Dr Caldwell said promises by the NHS to “digitise” the health service had simply seen needless bureaucracy transferred on to poor computer systems that were often incompatible with each other.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/21/pictured-doctor-shows-army-pointless-forms-burying-nhs-hospitals/

    He doesn't seem to have noticed that one cause of pharmacy delays is that 25% of hospital pharmacist posts are vacant.
    Surprised it’s so high, but also suspect regional differences. SW is struggling for pharmacists in any capacity.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited January 2023
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    DavidL said:

    If he didn't disclose it he should go. If he did they should go. Either way heads should roll for this.

    In 1997 the corridors of the BBC were lined with empty champagne bottles (allegedly)

    I don't see that happening this time...

    I am expecting a wholesale cull of Tory appointed quangocrats and other hangers on
    No need for allegedly, it’s a direct quote from a BBC employee at the time.
    Is there any supportive evidence such as photos? Or is it just an urban tale?
    Jane Garvey said it live on Radio 5.....when remembering 10 years of Labour government.

    "Ah, well – I had been up for most of the night but I was doing this Five Live breakfast programme with our colleague at the time – it was a bloke called Peter Allen so – I had to get a bit of sleep, and I do remember I walked back into – we were broadcasting then from Broadcasting House in the centre of London – all very upmarket in those days – and the corridors of Broadcasting House were strewn with empty champagne bottles – I will always remember that (Allen laughs) – er – not that the BBC were celebrating in any way shape or form (Allen, laughing – ‘no, no, no, not at all’) – and actually – I think it’s fair to say that in the intervening years the BBC, if it was ever in love with Labour has probably fallen out of love with Labour, or learned to fall back in, or basically just learned to be in the middle somewhere which is how it should be – um – but there was always this suggestion that the BBC was full of pinkoes who couldn’t wait for Labour to get back into power – that may have been the case, who knows ? but as I say I think there’ve been a few problems along the way – wish I hadn’t started this now…"
    So, said years later in a moment of hyperbole with no contemporaneous evidence or accounts.
    Believe what you like, that was the direct quote.

    I don't think its crazy talk to say that the BBC prior to Iraq War were very easy on New Labour. As I said, there are load of employees who have said that there is a problem with groupthink within the BBC rank and file and it has a bent that would be very much aligned to New Labour at that time.

    Where as Corbyn, he was certainly not given as easy a time.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591

    What ever happened to Tony Blair's vision for the NHS computer systems....

    “Pointless” bureaucracy is helping hospitals grind to a halt, a leading doctor has warned.

    Dr Gordon Caldwell, who has just retired after 40 years as an NHS hospital consultant, said “horribly inefficient” paperwork around patients moving in and out of wards is fuelling record delays.

    The senior doctor took a photograph of all the forms required for one medical admission to an NHS hospital, laid against his 5ft 10in frame.

    Dr Caldwell said promises by the NHS to “digitise” the health service had simply seen needless bureaucracy transferred on to poor computer systems that were often incompatible with each other.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/21/pictured-doctor-shows-army-pointless-forms-burying-nhs-hospitals/

    One of the reasons for this is patient safety. Spend any time in hospital and you will become wearily familiar with your name and dob being checked every 5 minutes. It’s about reducing medical errors.
    That said, those forms look a tad excessive.
    When I was operated on for a minor procedure about 3 different people checked my details before I was to be wheeled in, and then they confirmed on the way, just outside, and in the operating theatre. It did rather make me worry what sorts of things had happened in the past to make it seem necessary to check quite so many times.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,699

    Tory fanbois now moaning about champagne bottles a full 26 years ago.

    Who is moaning? I replied to an ‘allegedly’ confirming its truth. Foxy questioned it, Francis gave the evidence.

    TBH in 1997 pretty much the entire country was celebrating.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,195
    edited January 2023

    What ever happened to Tony Blair's vision for the NHS computer systems....

    “Pointless” bureaucracy is helping hospitals grind to a halt, a leading doctor has warned.

    Dr Gordon Caldwell, who has just retired after 40 years as an NHS hospital consultant, said “horribly inefficient” paperwork around patients moving in and out of wards is fuelling record delays.

    The senior doctor took a photograph of all the forms required for one medical admission to an NHS hospital, laid against his 5ft 10in frame.

    Dr Caldwell said promises by the NHS to “digitise” the health service had simply seen needless bureaucracy transferred on to poor computer systems that were often incompatible with each other.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/21/pictured-doctor-shows-army-pointless-forms-burying-nhs-hospitals/

    One of the reasons for this is patient safety. Spend any time in hospital and you will become wearily familiar with your name and dob being checked every 5 minutes. It’s about reducing medical errors.
    That said, those forms look a tad excessive.
    Indeed, and errors do occur despite all the checks.

    This one was a few years ago at my hospital:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/aug/05/man-circumcised-in-leicester-hospital-mix-up-gets-20000-payout

    Errors particularly seem to happen when a lot of the staff are agency or filling in in unfamiliar areas.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,699
    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    What ever happened to Tony Blair's vision for the NHS computer systems....

    “Pointless” bureaucracy is helping hospitals grind to a halt, a leading doctor has warned.

    Dr Gordon Caldwell, who has just retired after 40 years as an NHS hospital consultant, said “horribly inefficient” paperwork around patients moving in and out of wards is fuelling record delays.

    The senior doctor took a photograph of all the forms required for one medical admission to an NHS hospital, laid against his 5ft 10in frame.

    Dr Caldwell said promises by the NHS to “digitise” the health service had simply seen needless bureaucracy transferred on to poor computer systems that were often incompatible with each other.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/21/pictured-doctor-shows-army-pointless-forms-burying-nhs-hospitals/

    He doesn't seem to have noticed that one cause of pharmacy delays is that 25% of hospital pharmacist posts are vacant.
    My mother in law was coming out of hospital on Thursday. She was all set to go at 10am but did not manage to leave the hospital until after 7pm. She is elderly, frail and just a little wandered. In my experience this happens every time someone is trying to get out of hospital: they always end up waiting hours for pharmacy. It's ridiculous. Your vacancies must be a part of the explanation but the lack of urgency is shocking.
    We had this with my wife before Christmas. Waiting for one medication. Issue was it was from the internal pharmacy, rather than the ones patients can use, and so it took 3 hours. A prescription sheet we could have got filled in minutes.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited January 2023

    Tory fanbois now moaning about champagne bottles a full 26 years ago.

    Who is moaning? I replied to an ‘allegedly’ confirming its truth. Foxy questioned it, Francis gave the evidence.

    TBH in 1997 pretty much the entire country was celebrating.
    I always find it interesting to remember that all those supposed random members of the public around Downing street spontaneously celebrating were actually clearly stage managed party members. Tony Blair's / Bad Als approach from day one.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,203
    Foxy said:

    What ever happened to Tony Blair's vision for the NHS computer systems....

    “Pointless” bureaucracy is helping hospitals grind to a halt, a leading doctor has warned.

    Dr Gordon Caldwell, who has just retired after 40 years as an NHS hospital consultant, said “horribly inefficient” paperwork around patients moving in and out of wards is fuelling record delays.

    The senior doctor took a photograph of all the forms required for one medical admission to an NHS hospital, laid against his 5ft 10in frame.

    Dr Caldwell said promises by the NHS to “digitise” the health service had simply seen needless bureaucracy transferred on to poor computer systems that were often incompatible with each other.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/21/pictured-doctor-shows-army-pointless-forms-burying-nhs-hospitals/

    He doesn't seem to have noticed that one cause of pharmacy delays is that 25% of hospital pharmacist posts are vacant.
    The NHS digital project(s) was an epic epic fuckup. Legendary in IT.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,109

    What ever happened to Tony Blair's vision for the NHS computer systems....

    It ended in an acrimonious lawsuit
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited January 2023

    Foxy said:

    What ever happened to Tony Blair's vision for the NHS computer systems....

    “Pointless” bureaucracy is helping hospitals grind to a halt, a leading doctor has warned.

    Dr Gordon Caldwell, who has just retired after 40 years as an NHS hospital consultant, said “horribly inefficient” paperwork around patients moving in and out of wards is fuelling record delays.

    The senior doctor took a photograph of all the forms required for one medical admission to an NHS hospital, laid against his 5ft 10in frame.

    Dr Caldwell said promises by the NHS to “digitise” the health service had simply seen needless bureaucracy transferred on to poor computer systems that were often incompatible with each other.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/21/pictured-doctor-shows-army-pointless-forms-burying-nhs-hospitals/

    He doesn't seem to have noticed that one cause of pharmacy delays is that 25% of hospital pharmacist posts are vacant.
    The NHS digital project(s) was an epic epic fuckup. Legendary in IT.
    The thing is the general idea was right, the execution was unrivalled in its incompetence from the politicians, civil servants and IT companies involved.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,699
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    DavidL said:

    If he didn't disclose it he should go. If he did they should go. Either way heads should roll for this.

    In 1997 the corridors of the BBC were lined with empty champagne bottles (allegedly)

    I don't see that happening this time...

    I am expecting a wholesale cull of Tory appointed quangocrats and other hangers on
    No need for allegedly, it’s a direct quote from a BBC employee at the time.
    Is there any supportive evidence such as photos? Or is it just an urban tale?
    Jane Garvey said it live on Radio 5.....when remembering 10 years of Labour government.

    "Ah, well – I had been up for most of the night but I was doing this Five Live breakfast programme with our colleague at the time – it was a bloke called Peter Allen so – I had to get a bit of sleep, and I do remember I walked back into – we were broadcasting then from Broadcasting House in the centre of London – all very upmarket in those days – and the corridors of Broadcasting House were strewn with empty champagne bottles – I will always remember that (Allen laughs) – er – not that the BBC were celebrating in any way shape or form (Allen, laughing – ‘no, no, no, not at all’) – and actually – I think it’s fair to say that in the intervening years the BBC, if it was ever in love with Labour has probably fallen out of love with Labour, or learned to fall back in, or basically just learned to be in the middle somewhere which is how it should be – um – but there was always this suggestion that the BBC was full of pinkoes who couldn’t wait for Labour to get back into power – that may have been the case, who knows ? but as I say I think there’ve been a few problems along the way – wish I hadn’t started this now…"
    So, said years later in a moment of hyperbole with no contemporaneous evidence or accounts.
    So you don’t believe it? Why would she be lying?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,040
    A friend of mine had 3/1 on both Rashford and Nketiah having shots on target. Given their form that seemed exceptionally generous.
  • If Man Utd can get Sancho firing again like they have with Rashford, they might have quite a handy front line...
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,699
    kle4 said:

    What ever happened to Tony Blair's vision for the NHS computer systems....

    “Pointless” bureaucracy is helping hospitals grind to a halt, a leading doctor has warned.

    Dr Gordon Caldwell, who has just retired after 40 years as an NHS hospital consultant, said “horribly inefficient” paperwork around patients moving in and out of wards is fuelling record delays.

    The senior doctor took a photograph of all the forms required for one medical admission to an NHS hospital, laid against his 5ft 10in frame.

    Dr Caldwell said promises by the NHS to “digitise” the health service had simply seen needless bureaucracy transferred on to poor computer systems that were often incompatible with each other.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/21/pictured-doctor-shows-army-pointless-forms-burying-nhs-hospitals/

    One of the reasons for this is patient safety. Spend any time in hospital and you will become wearily familiar with your name and dob being checked every 5 minutes. It’s about reducing medical errors.
    That said, those forms look a tad excessive.
    When I was operated on for a minor procedure about 3 different people checked my details before I was to be wheeled in, and then they confirmed on the way, just outside, and in the operating theatre. It did rather make me worry what sorts of things had happened in the past to make it seem necessary to check quite so many times.
    Exactly. It’s about reducing errors. When you hear of the wrong limbs being amputated etc you can be grateful for the constant checks.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,195

    Foxy said:

    What ever happened to Tony Blair's vision for the NHS computer systems....

    “Pointless” bureaucracy is helping hospitals grind to a halt, a leading doctor has warned.

    Dr Gordon Caldwell, who has just retired after 40 years as an NHS hospital consultant, said “horribly inefficient” paperwork around patients moving in and out of wards is fuelling record delays.

    The senior doctor took a photograph of all the forms required for one medical admission to an NHS hospital, laid against his 5ft 10in frame.

    Dr Caldwell said promises by the NHS to “digitise” the health service had simply seen needless bureaucracy transferred on to poor computer systems that were often incompatible with each other.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/21/pictured-doctor-shows-army-pointless-forms-burying-nhs-hospitals/

    He doesn't seem to have noticed that one cause of pharmacy delays is that 25% of hospital pharmacist posts are vacant.
    The NHS digital project(s) was an epic epic fuckup. Legendary in IT.
    Indeed.

    When I log on to my computer at work I have to open a half dozen systems to look at different aspects of patient records. Clinical notes, prescribing, blood investigations, imaging, referral records, dictation. And we have paper records too!

    It works better with six systems than when they tried to integrate it into a single system, as that just crashed whenever anything got updated.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,699
    edited January 2023
    Foxy said:

    What ever happened to Tony Blair's vision for the NHS computer systems....

    “Pointless” bureaucracy is helping hospitals grind to a halt, a leading doctor has warned.

    Dr Gordon Caldwell, who has just retired after 40 years as an NHS hospital consultant, said “horribly inefficient” paperwork around patients moving in and out of wards is fuelling record delays.

    The senior doctor took a photograph of all the forms required for one medical admission to an NHS hospital, laid against his 5ft 10in frame.

    Dr Caldwell said promises by the NHS to “digitise” the health service had simply seen needless bureaucracy transferred on to poor computer systems that were often incompatible with each other.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/21/pictured-doctor-shows-army-pointless-forms-burying-nhs-hospitals/

    One of the reasons for this is patient safety. Spend any time in hospital and you will become wearily familiar with your name and dob being checked every 5 minutes. It’s about reducing medical errors.
    That said, those forms look a tad excessive.
    Indeed, and errors do occur despite all the checks.

    This one was a few years ago at my hospital:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/aug/05/man-circumcised-in-leicester-hospital-mix-up-gets-20000-payout

    Errors particularly seem to happen when a lot of the staff are agency or filling in in unfamiliar areas.
    During my period of three monthly check ups after leukaemia, a locum inadvertently sent my bone marrow sample to the wrong place. I was called in and had a second biopsy 48 hours later. If you’ve ever had a bone marrow biopsy you’d realise how big a deal that was.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,040

    If Man Utd can get Sancho firing again like they have with Rashford, they might have quite a handy front line...

    Antony is looking like a serious waste of money so far.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,699

    Tory fanbois now moaning about champagne bottles a full 26 years ago.

    Who is moaning? I replied to an ‘allegedly’ confirming its truth. Foxy questioned it, Francis gave the evidence.

    TBH in 1997 pretty much the entire country was celebrating.
    I always find it interesting to remember that all those supposed random members of the public around Downing street spontaneously celebrating were actually clearly stage managed party members. Tony Blair's / Bad Als approach from day one.
    Yes, it was a cynical, calculating move, and it was brilliant.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,441

    kle4 said:

    What ever happened to Tony Blair's vision for the NHS computer systems....

    “Pointless” bureaucracy is helping hospitals grind to a halt, a leading doctor has warned.

    Dr Gordon Caldwell, who has just retired after 40 years as an NHS hospital consultant, said “horribly inefficient” paperwork around patients moving in and out of wards is fuelling record delays.

    The senior doctor took a photograph of all the forms required for one medical admission to an NHS hospital, laid against his 5ft 10in frame.

    Dr Caldwell said promises by the NHS to “digitise” the health service had simply seen needless bureaucracy transferred on to poor computer systems that were often incompatible with each other.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/21/pictured-doctor-shows-army-pointless-forms-burying-nhs-hospitals/

    One of the reasons for this is patient safety. Spend any time in hospital and you will become wearily familiar with your name and dob being checked every 5 minutes. It’s about reducing medical errors.
    That said, those forms look a tad excessive.
    When I was operated on for a minor procedure about 3 different people checked my details before I was to be wheeled in, and then they confirmed on the way, just outside, and in the operating theatre. It did rather make me worry what sorts of things had happened in the past to make it seem necessary to check quite so many times.
    Exactly. It’s about reducing errors. When you hear of the wrong limbs being amputated etc you can be grateful for the constant checks.
    The chap with, or rather unexpectedly without, the foreskin was lucky by comparison to some things that have happened.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,195

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    DavidL said:

    If he didn't disclose it he should go. If he did they should go. Either way heads should roll for this.

    In 1997 the corridors of the BBC were lined with empty champagne bottles (allegedly)

    I don't see that happening this time...

    I am expecting a wholesale cull of Tory appointed quangocrats and other hangers on
    No need for allegedly, it’s a direct quote from a BBC employee at the time.
    Is there any supportive evidence such as photos? Or is it just an urban tale?
    Jane Garvey said it live on Radio 5.....when remembering 10 years of Labour government.

    "Ah, well – I had been up for most of the night but I was doing this Five Live breakfast programme with our colleague at the time – it was a bloke called Peter Allen so – I had to get a bit of sleep, and I do remember I walked back into – we were broadcasting then from Broadcasting House in the centre of London – all very upmarket in those days – and the corridors of Broadcasting House were strewn with empty champagne bottles – I will always remember that (Allen laughs) – er – not that the BBC were celebrating in any way shape or form (Allen, laughing – ‘no, no, no, not at all’) – and actually – I think it’s fair to say that in the intervening years the BBC, if it was ever in love with Labour has probably fallen out of love with Labour, or learned to fall back in, or basically just learned to be in the middle somewhere which is how it should be – um – but there was always this suggestion that the BBC was full of pinkoes who couldn’t wait for Labour to get back into power – that may have been the case, who knows ? but as I say I think there’ve been a few problems along the way – wish I hadn’t started this now…"
    So, said years later in a moment of hyperbole with no contemporaneous evidence or accounts.
    So you don’t believe it? Why would she be lying?
    I don't doubt that there were BBC people as glad as anyone that Blair had thrashed Major, but "champagne bottles strewn in the corridors" sounds like hyperbole. Not least because this was a workplace, where interviews with people from all parties were taking place.

    It has a strong whiff of urban myth to me in the absence either of photos or of contemporaneous accounts.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,743

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    What ever happened to Tony Blair's vision for the NHS computer systems....

    “Pointless” bureaucracy is helping hospitals grind to a halt, a leading doctor has warned.

    Dr Gordon Caldwell, who has just retired after 40 years as an NHS hospital consultant, said “horribly inefficient” paperwork around patients moving in and out of wards is fuelling record delays.

    The senior doctor took a photograph of all the forms required for one medical admission to an NHS hospital, laid against his 5ft 10in frame.

    Dr Caldwell said promises by the NHS to “digitise” the health service had simply seen needless bureaucracy transferred on to poor computer systems that were often incompatible with each other.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/21/pictured-doctor-shows-army-pointless-forms-burying-nhs-hospitals/

    He doesn't seem to have noticed that one cause of pharmacy delays is that 25% of hospital pharmacist posts are vacant.
    My mother in law was coming out of hospital on Thursday. She was all set to go at 10am but did not manage to leave the hospital until after 7pm. She is elderly, frail and just a little wandered. In my experience this happens every time someone is trying to get out of hospital: they always end up waiting hours for pharmacy. It's ridiculous. Your vacancies must be a part of the explanation but the lack of urgency is shocking.
    We had this with my wife before Christmas. Waiting for one medication. Issue was it was from the internal pharmacy, rather than the ones patients can use, and so it took 3 hours. A prescription sheet we could have got filled in minutes.
    I am reminded of the Sunday just before Christmas many years ago ago when, as the single-handed on call phamacist I was faced with some twenty prescription cards from one ward, roughly tripling the workload.
    A consultant had decided to ‘clear his beds’ before the holiday!
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,699
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    DavidL said:

    If he didn't disclose it he should go. If he did they should go. Either way heads should roll for this.

    In 1997 the corridors of the BBC were lined with empty champagne bottles (allegedly)

    I don't see that happening this time...

    I am expecting a wholesale cull of Tory appointed quangocrats and other hangers on
    No need for allegedly, it’s a direct quote from a BBC employee at the time.
    Is there any supportive evidence such as photos? Or is it just an urban tale?
    Jane Garvey said it live on Radio 5.....when remembering 10 years of Labour government.

    "Ah, well – I had been up for most of the night but I was doing this Five Live breakfast programme with our colleague at the time – it was a bloke called Peter Allen so – I had to get a bit of sleep, and I do remember I walked back into – we were broadcasting then from Broadcasting House in the centre of London – all very upmarket in those days – and the corridors of Broadcasting House were strewn with empty champagne bottles – I will always remember that (Allen laughs) – er – not that the BBC were celebrating in any way shape or form (Allen, laughing – ‘no, no, no, not at all’) – and actually – I think it’s fair to say that in the intervening years the BBC, if it was ever in love with Labour has probably fallen out of love with Labour, or learned to fall back in, or basically just learned to be in the middle somewhere which is how it should be – um – but there was always this suggestion that the BBC was full of pinkoes who couldn’t wait for Labour to get back into power – that may have been the case, who knows ? but as I say I think there’ve been a few problems along the way – wish I hadn’t started this now…"
    So, said years later in a moment of hyperbole with no contemporaneous evidence or accounts.
    So you don’t believe it? Why would she be lying?
    I don't doubt that there were BBC people as glad as anyone that Blair had thrashed Major, but "champagne bottles strewn in the corridors" sounds like hyperbole. Not least because this was a workplace, where interviews with people from all parties were taking place.

    It has a strong whiff of urban myth to me in the absence either of photos or of contemporaneous accounts.
    Urban myths would be ‘a friend told me there were champagne bottles strewn around’. This is her saying it. I have no idea why you think it’s not plausible. Everyone was sick of the Tories after 18 long years, as they will be in 2024.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,195
    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    What ever happened to Tony Blair's vision for the NHS computer systems....

    “Pointless” bureaucracy is helping hospitals grind to a halt, a leading doctor has warned.

    Dr Gordon Caldwell, who has just retired after 40 years as an NHS hospital consultant, said “horribly inefficient” paperwork around patients moving in and out of wards is fuelling record delays.

    The senior doctor took a photograph of all the forms required for one medical admission to an NHS hospital, laid against his 5ft 10in frame.

    Dr Caldwell said promises by the NHS to “digitise” the health service had simply seen needless bureaucracy transferred on to poor computer systems that were often incompatible with each other.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/21/pictured-doctor-shows-army-pointless-forms-burying-nhs-hospitals/

    One of the reasons for this is patient safety. Spend any time in hospital and you will become wearily familiar with your name and dob being checked every 5 minutes. It’s about reducing medical errors.
    That said, those forms look a tad excessive.
    When I was operated on for a minor procedure about 3 different people checked my details before I was to be wheeled in, and then they confirmed on the way, just outside, and in the operating theatre. It did rather make me worry what sorts of things had happened in the past to make it seem necessary to check quite so many times.
    Exactly. It’s about reducing errors. When you hear of the wrong limbs being amputated etc you can be grateful for the constant checks.
    The chap with, or rather unexpectedly without, the foreskin was lucky by comparison to some things that have happened.
    Having read the report of what happened (it was circulated in redacted form for educational purposes in the Trust) failing to adhere to the WHO checklist procedure was a key failing.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046
    kle4 said:

    What ever happened to Tony Blair's vision for the NHS computer systems....

    “Pointless” bureaucracy is helping hospitals grind to a halt, a leading doctor has warned.

    Dr Gordon Caldwell, who has just retired after 40 years as an NHS hospital consultant, said “horribly inefficient” paperwork around patients moving in and out of wards is fuelling record delays.

    The senior doctor took a photograph of all the forms required for one medical admission to an NHS hospital, laid against his 5ft 10in frame.

    Dr Caldwell said promises by the NHS to “digitise” the health service had simply seen needless bureaucracy transferred on to poor computer systems that were often incompatible with each other.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/21/pictured-doctor-shows-army-pointless-forms-burying-nhs-hospitals/

    One of the reasons for this is patient safety. Spend any time in hospital and you will become wearily familiar with your name and dob being checked every 5 minutes. It’s about reducing medical errors.
    That said, those forms look a tad excessive.
    When I was operated on for a minor procedure about 3 different people checked my details before I was to be wheeled in, and then they confirmed on the way, just outside, and in the operating theatre. It did rather make me worry what sorts of things had happened in the past to make it seem necessary to check quite so many times.
    It still occasionally happens, there’s an investigation when it does happen, and procedures are changed to stop that error happening again. Which is why every person doing anything on you while you’re conscious, asks for your name, DOB and sometimes the nature of the procedure.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,195

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    DavidL said:

    If he didn't disclose it he should go. If he did they should go. Either way heads should roll for this.

    In 1997 the corridors of the BBC were lined with empty champagne bottles (allegedly)

    I don't see that happening this time...

    I am expecting a wholesale cull of Tory appointed quangocrats and other hangers on
    No need for allegedly, it’s a direct quote from a BBC employee at the time.
    Is there any supportive evidence such as photos? Or is it just an urban tale?
    Jane Garvey said it live on Radio 5.....when remembering 10 years of Labour government.

    "Ah, well – I had been up for most of the night but I was doing this Five Live breakfast programme with our colleague at the time – it was a bloke called Peter Allen so – I had to get a bit of sleep, and I do remember I walked back into – we were broadcasting then from Broadcasting House in the centre of London – all very upmarket in those days – and the corridors of Broadcasting House were strewn with empty champagne bottles – I will always remember that (Allen laughs) – er – not that the BBC were celebrating in any way shape or form (Allen, laughing – ‘no, no, no, not at all’) – and actually – I think it’s fair to say that in the intervening years the BBC, if it was ever in love with Labour has probably fallen out of love with Labour, or learned to fall back in, or basically just learned to be in the middle somewhere which is how it should be – um – but there was always this suggestion that the BBC was full of pinkoes who couldn’t wait for Labour to get back into power – that may have been the case, who knows ? but as I say I think there’ve been a few problems along the way – wish I hadn’t started this now…"
    So, said years later in a moment of hyperbole with no contemporaneous evidence or accounts.
    So you don’t believe it? Why would she be lying?
    I don't doubt that there were BBC people as glad as anyone that Blair had thrashed Major, but "champagne bottles strewn in the corridors" sounds like hyperbole. Not least because this was a workplace, where interviews with people from all parties were taking place.

    It has a strong whiff of urban myth to me in the absence either of photos or of contemporaneous accounts.
    Urban myths would be ‘a friend told me there were champagne bottles strewn around’. This is her saying it. I have no idea why you think it’s not plausible. Everyone was sick of the Tories after 18 long years, as they will be in 2024.
    Which is why I decribe it as hyperbole.

    It makes it sound like the aftermath of a bacchanalia, rather than a workplace where members of all parties were being interviewed. Did anyone else describe it so?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,203

    What ever happened to Tony Blair's vision for the NHS computer systems....

    “Pointless” bureaucracy is helping hospitals grind to a halt, a leading doctor has warned.

    Dr Gordon Caldwell, who has just retired after 40 years as an NHS hospital consultant, said “horribly inefficient” paperwork around patients moving in and out of wards is fuelling record delays.

    The senior doctor took a photograph of all the forms required for one medical admission to an NHS hospital, laid against his 5ft 10in frame.

    Dr Caldwell said promises by the NHS to “digitise” the health service had simply seen needless bureaucracy transferred on to poor computer systems that were often incompatible with each other.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/21/pictured-doctor-shows-army-pointless-forms-burying-nhs-hospitals/

    One of the reasons for this is patient safety. Spend any time in hospital and you will become wearily familiar with your name and dob being checked every 5 minutes. It’s about reducing medical errors.
    That said, those forms look a tad excessive.
    The problem is that check box forms can reduce safety. See the history of NASA and why they need 8 people to tighten one bolt. And get it wrong.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,699
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    DavidL said:

    If he didn't disclose it he should go. If he did they should go. Either way heads should roll for this.

    In 1997 the corridors of the BBC were lined with empty champagne bottles (allegedly)

    I don't see that happening this time...

    I am expecting a wholesale cull of Tory appointed quangocrats and other hangers on
    No need for allegedly, it’s a direct quote from a BBC employee at the time.
    Is there any supportive evidence such as photos? Or is it just an urban tale?
    Jane Garvey said it live on Radio 5.....when remembering 10 years of Labour government.

    "Ah, well – I had been up for most of the night but I was doing this Five Live breakfast programme with our colleague at the time – it was a bloke called Peter Allen so – I had to get a bit of sleep, and I do remember I walked back into – we were broadcasting then from Broadcasting House in the centre of London – all very upmarket in those days – and the corridors of Broadcasting House were strewn with empty champagne bottles – I will always remember that (Allen laughs) – er – not that the BBC were celebrating in any way shape or form (Allen, laughing – ‘no, no, no, not at all’) – and actually – I think it’s fair to say that in the intervening years the BBC, if it was ever in love with Labour has probably fallen out of love with Labour, or learned to fall back in, or basically just learned to be in the middle somewhere which is how it should be – um – but there was always this suggestion that the BBC was full of pinkoes who couldn’t wait for Labour to get back into power – that may have been the case, who knows ? but as I say I think there’ve been a few problems along the way – wish I hadn’t started this now…"
    So, said years later in a moment of hyperbole with no contemporaneous evidence or accounts.
    So you don’t believe it? Why would she be lying?
    I don't doubt that there were BBC people as glad as anyone that Blair had thrashed Major, but "champagne bottles strewn in the corridors" sounds like hyperbole. Not least because this was a workplace, where interviews with people from all parties were taking place.

    It has a strong whiff of urban myth to me in the absence either of photos or of contemporaneous accounts.
    Urban myths would be ‘a friend told me there were champagne bottles strewn around’. This is her saying it. I have no idea why you think it’s not plausible. Everyone was sick of the Tories after 18 long years, as they will be in 2024.
    Which is why I decribe it as hyperbole.

    It makes it sound like the aftermath of a bacchanalia, rather than a workplace where members of all parties were being interviewed. Did anyone else describe it so?
    Apparently not, but I believe her. If you don’t, that’s fine.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,699

    What ever happened to Tony Blair's vision for the NHS computer systems....

    “Pointless” bureaucracy is helping hospitals grind to a halt, a leading doctor has warned.

    Dr Gordon Caldwell, who has just retired after 40 years as an NHS hospital consultant, said “horribly inefficient” paperwork around patients moving in and out of wards is fuelling record delays.

    The senior doctor took a photograph of all the forms required for one medical admission to an NHS hospital, laid against his 5ft 10in frame.

    Dr Caldwell said promises by the NHS to “digitise” the health service had simply seen needless bureaucracy transferred on to poor computer systems that were often incompatible with each other.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/21/pictured-doctor-shows-army-pointless-forms-burying-nhs-hospitals/

    One of the reasons for this is patient safety. Spend any time in hospital and you will become wearily familiar with your name and dob being checked every 5 minutes. It’s about reducing medical errors.
    That said, those forms look a tad excessive.
    The problem is that check box forms can reduce safety. See the history of NASA and why they need 8 people to tighten one bolt. And get it wrong.
    I had a colleague whose research was into error reduction (pharmacy). There are probably no perfect systems, but having two staff check patient details and medications definitely is better than just one.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,109
    @guardian: Ludicrous ideas, perpetual scandal: the Conservatives are in absolute freefall | John Harris https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jan/22/tories-policy-conservative-party-government
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046
    edited January 2023

    What ever happened to Tony Blair's vision for the NHS computer systems....

    “Pointless” bureaucracy is helping hospitals grind to a halt, a leading doctor has warned.

    Dr Gordon Caldwell, who has just retired after 40 years as an NHS hospital consultant, said “horribly inefficient” paperwork around patients moving in and out of wards is fuelling record delays.

    The senior doctor took a photograph of all the forms required for one medical admission to an NHS hospital, laid against his 5ft 10in frame.

    Dr Caldwell said promises by the NHS to “digitise” the health service had simply seen needless bureaucracy transferred on to poor computer systems that were often incompatible with each other.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/21/pictured-doctor-shows-army-pointless-forms-burying-nhs-hospitals/

    One of the reasons for this is patient safety. Spend any time in hospital and you will become wearily familiar with your name and dob being checked every 5 minutes. It’s about reducing medical errors.
    That said, those forms look a tad excessive.
    The problem is that check box forms can reduce safety. See the history of NASA and why they need 8 people to tighten one bolt. And get it wrong.
    Yep, aviation has studied checklists and procedures to death.

    Mostly because whenever there’s a death, they take another look at the human factors involved.

    There’s a right amount of stuff to know off by heart, and a right balance between concise and verbose when it comes to checklists. There’s also a right number of systems to be redundant, and a right number of people to check an operation.

    All of which results in many fewer planes falling out of the sky than ever before, even as the number of planes and number of flights has increased exponentially.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,109

    The problem is that check box forms can reduce safety. See the history of NASA and why they need 8 people to tighten one bolt. And get it wrong.

    https://www.edwardtufte.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=0001yB&topic_id=1&topic=Ask+E.T.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,109
    @DanNeidle: #Zahawi update: his lawyers have written to me, denying that HMRC investigated him under COP 9, the procedure for i… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1617205525359239180
  • DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    What ever happened to Tony Blair's vision for the NHS computer systems....

    “Pointless” bureaucracy is helping hospitals grind to a halt, a leading doctor has warned.

    Dr Gordon Caldwell, who has just retired after 40 years as an NHS hospital consultant, said “horribly inefficient” paperwork around patients moving in and out of wards is fuelling record delays.

    The senior doctor took a photograph of all the forms required for one medical admission to an NHS hospital, laid against his 5ft 10in frame.

    Dr Caldwell said promises by the NHS to “digitise” the health service had simply seen needless bureaucracy transferred on to poor computer systems that were often incompatible with each other.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/21/pictured-doctor-shows-army-pointless-forms-burying-nhs-hospitals/

    He doesn't seem to have noticed that one cause of pharmacy delays is that 25% of hospital pharmacist posts are vacant.
    My mother in law was coming out of hospital on Thursday. She was all set to go at 10am but did not manage to leave the hospital until after 7pm. She is elderly, frail and just a little wandered. In my experience this happens every time someone is trying to get out of hospital: they always end up waiting hours for pharmacy. It's ridiculous. Your vacancies must be a part of the explanation but the lack of urgency is shocking.
    We witnessed a very similar situation this week with my Mum in hospital. In fact identical. The lady in the next bed to my Mother was released after the consultant saw her on his rounds about 9am. She then had to wait, occupying a bed until 7pm before she could finally go home as she was waiting for her prescribed post op meds.

    One other area that seems to be an issue is waiting for specialist services in the hospital. My mother had acute pancreatitis but an emergency ultrasound when she arrived in hospital on Saturday night/Sunday morning did not pick up any gallstones - the most common cause of the condition after alcoholism.

    So the consultant then wanted her to have an MRI scan to check if they were missing anything. By Tuesday she was fully recovered from the pancreatitis but she didn't actually get the MRI scan until Thursday evening and all that time she was occupying a bed that could have been used by someone else.

    The stay in hospital cannot be faulted and clearly the reason for the delays - which was frustrating even the consultant - was simply the demand for the machine and its operators. But I do wonder if hospitals/trusts are monitoring such delays and looking for ways to ease these bottlenecks. It is not all to be blamed on old folks who cannot be released to social care.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited January 2023
    DavidL said:

    If Man Utd can get Sancho firing again like they have with Rashford, they might have quite a handy front line...

    Antony is looking like a serious waste of money so far.
    But but but, he can do that one cool trick.....that erh doesn't seem to fool top class defenders...
  • On topic and comment - and with the added proviso to all that post articles that thank you for what you do - I take it that @TSE 's comment that he is a "fair and balanced observer" is a p1ss take?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited January 2023
    And there was all the outrage of how twitter employees got fired...classy stuff.

    17.5 years at google, goes to work at 4am, badge deactivated.

    https://twitter.com/Kantrowitz/status/1616888609885372416

    The VP of UX, Bobby Nath, found out when his home Google Nest hub stopped working because it was connected to his work email. I knew Bobby at Amazon, where he was brilliant and adored by one and all. It blows my mind that Google doesn't care about the optics here.

    https://twitter.com/KristiCCoulter/status/1616922886681563136
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    Scott_xP said:

    @DanNeidle: #Zahawi update: his lawyers have written to me, denying that HMRC investigated him under COP 9, the procedure for i… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1617205525359239180

    I see Zahawi, through his lawyers, is still at the 'I am more annoyed at having to answer questions about this than I am at my admission of being an idiot with my finances' stage.
  • Scott_xP said:

    @guardian: Ludicrous ideas, perpetual scandal: the Conservatives are in absolute freefall | John Harris https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jan/22/tories-policy-conservative-party-government

    Yet 18 months ago, we were asking whether Starmer would be able to survive if Labour lost the Batley and Spen by-election.The same amount of time likely to the next election.

    Starmer is not teflon. He's getting away with things at the moment because of the focus on the Government but, as his "internal bleeding" and "the vast majority of women don't have penises" comments show, he's not exactly the Tony Blair of our generation.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,203
    Sandpit said:

    What ever happened to Tony Blair's vision for the NHS computer systems....

    “Pointless” bureaucracy is helping hospitals grind to a halt, a leading doctor has warned.

    Dr Gordon Caldwell, who has just retired after 40 years as an NHS hospital consultant, said “horribly inefficient” paperwork around patients moving in and out of wards is fuelling record delays.

    The senior doctor took a photograph of all the forms required for one medical admission to an NHS hospital, laid against his 5ft 10in frame.

    Dr Caldwell said promises by the NHS to “digitise” the health service had simply seen needless bureaucracy transferred on to poor computer systems that were often incompatible with each other.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/21/pictured-doctor-shows-army-pointless-forms-burying-nhs-hospitals/

    One of the reasons for this is patient safety. Spend any time in hospital and you will become wearily familiar with your name and dob being checked every 5 minutes. It’s about reducing medical errors.
    That said, those forms look a tad excessive.
    The problem is that check box forms can reduce safety. See the history of NASA and why they need 8 people to tighten one bolt. And get it wrong.
    Yep, aviation has studied checklists and procedures to death.

    Mostly because whenever there’s a death, they take another look at the human factors involved.

    There’s a right amount of stuff to know off by heart, and a right balance between concise and verbose when it comes to checklists. There’s also a right number of systems to be redundant, and a right number of people to check an operation.

    All of which results in many fewer planes falling out of the sky than ever before, even as the number of planes and number of flights has increased exponentially.
    Like nearly everything there is

    - too little
    - Just right
    - Too much
    - actively harmful
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,195

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    What ever happened to Tony Blair's vision for the NHS computer systems....

    “Pointless” bureaucracy is helping hospitals grind to a halt, a leading doctor has warned.

    Dr Gordon Caldwell, who has just retired after 40 years as an NHS hospital consultant, said “horribly inefficient” paperwork around patients moving in and out of wards is fuelling record delays.

    The senior doctor took a photograph of all the forms required for one medical admission to an NHS hospital, laid against his 5ft 10in frame.

    Dr Caldwell said promises by the NHS to “digitise” the health service had simply seen needless bureaucracy transferred on to poor computer systems that were often incompatible with each other.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/21/pictured-doctor-shows-army-pointless-forms-burying-nhs-hospitals/

    He doesn't seem to have noticed that one cause of pharmacy delays is that 25% of hospital pharmacist posts are vacant.
    My mother in law was coming out of hospital on Thursday. She was all set to go at 10am but did not manage to leave the hospital until after 7pm. She is elderly, frail and just a little wandered. In my experience this happens every time someone is trying to get out of hospital: they always end up waiting hours for pharmacy. It's ridiculous. Your vacancies must be a part of the explanation but the lack of urgency is shocking.
    We witnessed a very similar situation this week with my Mum in hospital. In fact identical. The lady in the next bed to my Mother was released after the consultant saw her on his rounds about 9am. She then had to wait, occupying a bed until 7pm before she could finally go home as she was waiting for her prescribed post op meds.

    One other area that seems to be an issue is waiting for specialist services in the hospital. My mother had acute pancreatitis but an emergency ultrasound when she arrived in hospital on Saturday night/Sunday morning did not pick up any gallstones - the most common cause of the condition after alcoholism.

    So the consultant then wanted her to have an MRI scan to check if they were missing anything. By Tuesday she was fully recovered from the pancreatitis but she didn't actually get the MRI scan until Thursday evening and all that time she was occupying a bed that could have been used by someone else.

    The stay in hospital cannot be faulted and clearly the reason for the delays - which was frustrating even the consultant - was simply the demand for the machine and its operators. But I do wonder if hospitals/trusts are monitoring such delays and looking for ways to ease these bottlenecks. It is not all to be blamed on old folks who cannot be released to social care.
    Yes, there are lots of inefficiencies in the NHS that hamper productivity. Vacant posts in pharmacy and half the number of scanners than comparable health systems amongst them.

    Hospital pharmacy pay scales are clearly not competitive with the retail sector, and capital budgets have been diverted to "front line services" for years. We can only replace equipment when it fails completely.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046

    And there was all the outrage of how twitter employees got fired...classy stuff.

    17.5 years at google, goes to work at 4am, badge deactivated.

    https://twitter.com/Kantrowitz/status/1616888609885372416

    The VP of UX, Bobby Nath, found out when his home Google Nest hub stopped working because it was connected to his work email. I knew Bobby at Amazon, where he was brilliant and adored by one and all. It blows my mind that Google doesn't care about the optics here.

    https://twitter.com/KristiCCoulter/status/1616922886681563136

    How does a company do “your building access card no longer works one morning”, when everyone is employed remotely? Not an easy one.
  • Made me chuckle...

    The future of email with ChatGPT.
    https://twitter.com/multikev/status/1616784555788075009
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,321

    And there was all the outrage of how twitter employees got fired...classy stuff.

    17.5 years at google, goes to work at 4am, badge deactivated.

    https://twitter.com/Kantrowitz/status/1616888609885372416

    The VP of UX, Bobby Nath, found out when his home Google Nest hub stopped working because it was connected to his work email. I knew Bobby at Amazon, where he was brilliant and adored by one and all. It blows my mind that Google doesn't care about the optics here.

    https://twitter.com/KristiCCoulter/status/1616922886681563136

    Some of these people are acting as if they are victims of crime rather than just the vicissitudes of the job market.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited January 2023

    And there was all the outrage of how twitter employees got fired...classy stuff.

    17.5 years at google, goes to work at 4am, badge deactivated.

    https://twitter.com/Kantrowitz/status/1616888609885372416

    The VP of UX, Bobby Nath, found out when his home Google Nest hub stopped working because it was connected to his work email. I knew Bobby at Amazon, where he was brilliant and adored by one and all. It blows my mind that Google doesn't care about the optics here.

    https://twitter.com/KristiCCoulter/status/1616922886681563136

    Some of these people are acting as if they are victims of crime rather than just the vicissitudes of the job market.
    I think long term employees its particular bad not to have an actual conversation prior. If they have worked there for 17+ years, you would hope there would be a level of trust and mutual respect.

    I wonder what impact the long term hire and fire with limited interaction with actual humans (then doing the job the same) will have on organisations. Its all a bit dystopian.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,943

    Tory fanbois now moaning about champagne bottles a full 26 years ago.

    How the pendulum has swung. 26 years is a long time in broadcast politics.

    I imagine the place was awash with champagne in 2019. Come to think of it one or two BBC staffers were even Conservative candidates
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046

    And there was all the outrage of how twitter employees got fired...classy stuff.

    17.5 years at google, goes to work at 4am, badge deactivated.

    https://twitter.com/Kantrowitz/status/1616888609885372416

    The VP of UX, Bobby Nath, found out when his home Google Nest hub stopped working because it was connected to his work email. I knew Bobby at Amazon, where he was brilliant and adored by one and all. It blows my mind that Google doesn't care about the optics here.

    https://twitter.com/KristiCCoulter/status/1616922886681563136

    Some of these people are acting as if they are victims of crime rather than just the vicissitudes of the job market.
    That’s a really good way of putting it.

    They’ll all be getting very handsomely paid off, same as the Twitter employees were. Yeah it sucks to lose a job, but it’s part of life. No-one fired from Google is going to be worried about making rent next month.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,195
    Sandpit said:

    And there was all the outrage of how twitter employees got fired...classy stuff.

    17.5 years at google, goes to work at 4am, badge deactivated.

    https://twitter.com/Kantrowitz/status/1616888609885372416

    The VP of UX, Bobby Nath, found out when his home Google Nest hub stopped working because it was connected to his work email. I knew Bobby at Amazon, where he was brilliant and adored by one and all. It blows my mind that Google doesn't care about the optics here.

    https://twitter.com/KristiCCoulter/status/1616922886681563136

    Some of these people are acting as if they are victims of crime rather than just the vicissitudes of the job market.
    That’s a really good way of putting it.

    They’ll all be getting very handsomely paid off, same as the Twitter employees were. Yeah it sucks to lose a job, but it’s part of life. No-one fired from Google is going to be worried about making rent next month.
    Not sure about that. Fire at will contracts are quite common in the USA, often with just a few weeks pay in lieu of notice.

    I think it common practice for access to be denied before employees are informed in the IT sector so they cannot do sabotage or steal data.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    What ever happened to Tony Blair's vision for the NHS computer systems....

    “Pointless” bureaucracy is helping hospitals grind to a halt, a leading doctor has warned.

    Dr Gordon Caldwell, who has just retired after 40 years as an NHS hospital consultant, said “horribly inefficient” paperwork around patients moving in and out of wards is fuelling record delays.

    The senior doctor took a photograph of all the forms required for one medical admission to an NHS hospital, laid against his 5ft 10in frame.

    Dr Caldwell said promises by the NHS to “digitise” the health service had simply seen needless bureaucracy transferred on to poor computer systems that were often incompatible with each other.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/21/pictured-doctor-shows-army-pointless-forms-burying-nhs-hospitals/

    He doesn't seem to have noticed that one cause of pharmacy delays is that 25% of hospital pharmacist posts are vacant.
    My mother in law was coming out of hospital on Thursday. She was all set to go at 10am but did not manage to leave the hospital until after 7pm. She is elderly, frail and just a little wandered. In my experience this happens every time someone is trying to get out of hospital: they always end up waiting hours for pharmacy. It's ridiculous. Your vacancies must be a part of the explanation but the lack of urgency is shocking.
    Yep. Pharmacy was the last thing I got in my two day delayed discharge…
  • Scott_xP said:

    @guardian: Ludicrous ideas, perpetual scandal: the Conservatives are in absolute freefall | John Harris https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jan/22/tories-policy-conservative-party-government

    Yet 18 months ago, we were asking whether Starmer would be able to survive if Labour lost the Batley and Spen by-election.The same amount of time likely to the next election.

    Starmer is not teflon. He's getting away with things at the moment because of the focus on the Government but, as his "internal bleeding" and "the vast majority of women don't have penises" comments show, he's not exactly the Tony Blair of our generation.
    No we weren't asking that. The Tories were saying how useless he was and I was saying at the time they were wrong.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,109
    Sandpit said:

    No-one fired from Google is going to be worried about making rent next month.

    But some of them will be worried about getting deported when their H1B isn't picked up by another company
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    I seem to remember when people argued Germany was the leader of the free world and Britain would be captured by Russian money. Any rethinking going on?

    https://twitter.com/macaesbruno/status/1617213292568510466

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,109
    Foxy said:

    Not sure about that. Fire at will contracts are quite common in the USA, often with just a few weeks pay in lieu of notice.

    I think it common practice for access to be denied before employees are informed in the IT sector so they cannot do sabotage or steal data.

    And it varies by state
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited January 2023
    Sandpit said:

    And there was all the outrage of how twitter employees got fired...classy stuff.

    17.5 years at google, goes to work at 4am, badge deactivated.

    https://twitter.com/Kantrowitz/status/1616888609885372416

    The VP of UX, Bobby Nath, found out when his home Google Nest hub stopped working because it was connected to his work email. I knew Bobby at Amazon, where he was brilliant and adored by one and all. It blows my mind that Google doesn't care about the optics here.

    https://twitter.com/KristiCCoulter/status/1616922886681563136

    Some of these people are acting as if they are victims of crime rather than just the vicissitudes of the job market.
    That’s a really good way of putting it.

    They’ll all be getting very handsomely paid off, same as the Twitter employees were. Yeah it sucks to lose a job, but it’s part of life. No-one fired from Google is going to be worried about making rent next month.
    I think there has been across all these layoffs some absolutely OTT responses, however I do think that particularly long term employees should be shown a certain level of respect. It rather screams you are but a number to us, shortly some AI will make these decisions (well they already do on screening for hiring). And in return, it just leads to employees not respecting or caring about the company they work for.
  • Tory fanbois now moaning about champagne bottles a full 26 years ago.

    How the pendulum has swung. 26 years is a long time in broadcast politics.

    I imagine the place was awash with champagne in 2019. Come to think of it one or two BBC staffers were even Conservative candidates
    The BBC Chairman in 1997 was a Conservative former GLC member.

    There are a mix in all organisations, but I have little doubt that most BBC employees - tending to the younger and more urban end of things - are centre left.

    But so what? Most of the jobs there frankly don't touch on politics - it's programme making, technical, and professional.
  • On topic and comment - and with the added proviso to all that post articles that thank you for what you do - I take it that @TSE 's comment that he is a "fair and balanced observer" is a p1ss take?

    How very dare you?

    When it comes to the Royals I’m as fair and balanced as I am modest.

    But I identify as fair and balanced.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    And there was all the outrage of how twitter employees got fired...classy stuff.

    17.5 years at google, goes to work at 4am, badge deactivated.

    https://twitter.com/Kantrowitz/status/1616888609885372416

    The VP of UX, Bobby Nath, found out when his home Google Nest hub stopped working because it was connected to his work email. I knew Bobby at Amazon, where he was brilliant and adored by one and all. It blows my mind that Google doesn't care about the optics here.

    https://twitter.com/KristiCCoulter/status/1616922886681563136

    Some of these people are acting as if they are victims of crime rather than just the vicissitudes of the job market.
    That’s a really good way of putting it.

    They’ll all be getting very handsomely paid off, same as the Twitter employees were. Yeah it sucks to lose a job, but it’s part of life. No-one fired from Google is going to be worried about making rent next month.
    Not sure about that. Fire at will contracts are quite common in the USA, often with just a few weeks pay in lieu of notice.

    I think it common practice for access to be denied before employees are informed in the IT sector so they cannot do sabotage or steal data.
    Don’t know about Google, but at Twitter everyone laid off was paid three months’ salary.

    Yes, I’ve been that IT guy getting a call in the middle of the night from a senior executive, asking to block systems access for a list of people before 6am. It’s standard procedure, even if it can come across as rather hostile to those on the receiving end if they’ve not experienced it before. Data protection, and the prevention of sabotage or espionage, is way more important to the company that a group of hacked-off former employees.

    It’s also usual to allow the redundant back to their office under supervision at some point, to collect their belongings and any non-work files, and to sort the paperwork.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046

    Sandpit said:

    And there was all the outrage of how twitter employees got fired...classy stuff.

    17.5 years at google, goes to work at 4am, badge deactivated.

    https://twitter.com/Kantrowitz/status/1616888609885372416

    The VP of UX, Bobby Nath, found out when his home Google Nest hub stopped working because it was connected to his work email. I knew Bobby at Amazon, where he was brilliant and adored by one and all. It blows my mind that Google doesn't care about the optics here.

    https://twitter.com/KristiCCoulter/status/1616922886681563136

    Some of these people are acting as if they are victims of crime rather than just the vicissitudes of the job market.
    That’s a really good way of putting it.

    They’ll all be getting very handsomely paid off, same as the Twitter employees were. Yeah it sucks to lose a job, but it’s part of life. No-one fired from Google is going to be worried about making rent next month.
    I think there has been across all these layoffs some absolutely OTT responses, however I do think that particularly long term employees should be shown a certain level of respect. It rather screams you are but a number to us, shortly some AI will make these decisions (well they already do on screening for hiring). And in return, it just leads to employees not respecting or caring about the company they work for.
    Yes, it’s a fine line. It was easier in the days when everyone could gather in the office, and those affected could be shuffled through the director’s office and told the bad news face to face.

    It’s more difficult now that many people work remotely, and carry company devices full of data that need to be locked or wiped instantly. It’s also difficult when there’s 10,000 people in several dozen offices affected all on the same day.

    I imagine the 17-year Google veteran would have been quickly called by his boss and invited for a coffee or a beer somewhere, to be told he was valuable and would be welcomed back when things pick up.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    TFL Language guidance:
    Some of the new language guidelines do feel a bit weirdly OTT, though. Staff are urged to ‘avoid referring to conflicts by name if possible’. So, for example, to say ‘late 1940s’ instead of ‘post-World War II’. It’s not clear in what context this might come up. Maybe ‘The 19.39 to New Cross is delayed and is now expected in the late 19.40s.’

    https://www.timeout.com/london/news/theres-a-list-of-forbidden-terms-that-tfl-staff-arent-meant-to-use-101122
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,943
    Scott_xP said:
    So basically Johnson had nothing whatsoever to do with arrangements for his quick and easy access to emergency cash during his premiership from a relative. Well that seems to have cleared that up.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,195
    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    What ever happened to Tony Blair's vision for the NHS computer systems....

    “Pointless” bureaucracy is helping hospitals grind to a halt, a leading doctor has warned.

    Dr Gordon Caldwell, who has just retired after 40 years as an NHS hospital consultant, said “horribly inefficient” paperwork around patients moving in and out of wards is fuelling record delays.

    The senior doctor took a photograph of all the forms required for one medical admission to an NHS hospital, laid against his 5ft 10in frame.

    Dr Caldwell said promises by the NHS to “digitise” the health service had simply seen needless bureaucracy transferred on to poor computer systems that were often incompatible with each other.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/21/pictured-doctor-shows-army-pointless-forms-burying-nhs-hospitals/

    He doesn't seem to have noticed that one cause of pharmacy delays is that 25% of hospital pharmacist posts are vacant.
    My mother in law was coming out of hospital on Thursday. She was all set to go at 10am but did not manage to leave the hospital until after 7pm. She is elderly, frail and just a little wandered. In my experience this happens every time someone is trying to get out of hospital: they always end up waiting hours for pharmacy. It's ridiculous. Your vacancies must be a part of the explanation but the lack of urgency is shocking.
    It isn't that surprising in a system that is working beyond capacity. The process is as follows:

    1) Consultant does ward round first thing with postgraduate doctors, decides discharge medication for all patients being discharged.

    2) Postgraduate doctor finishes ward round a couple of hours later, comes back to complete discharge documentation on multiple patients. This then goes to nurse for completion of their part and gets sent electronically to pharmacy.

    3) pharmacy gets multiple discharge files electronically. Checks this against inpatient prescribing, allergies and drug interactions. If no clarification needed then drugs are collated and labelled, ward electronically informed.

    4) Ward staff goes to pharmacy to collect medications, checks these with patient and gives medication to patient with appropriate instructions and documentation.

    5) patient goes home with medication.

    All possible in under an hour if all staff are free to do nothing else, but that rarely is the situation.

    1) Consultant has to see sickest patients first so planned discharges seen late.

    2) PG doctor has to arrange urgent investigations and treatment for patients from ward round before tackling routine discharges. Ditto nursing staff.

    3) Pharmacy is understaffed so multiple requests arrive similtaneously. Prescribers difficult to contact to clarify alterations from ward prescriptions (was this meant to be a change in dose? Has this drug interaction been considered?).

    4) Ward too busy to spare staff to pick up medication.

    5) Patient transport doesn't arrive on time, if at all...

    And that is all on top of other demands, answering phones, everyone trying to use the same computer, emergency admissions, dealing with irritated relatives etc.

    The system works fine when the system is running below capacity, but collapses fairly quickly when urgent demands prevent routine discharge management. You cannot fit a quart into a pint pot.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,311
    Has the BBC guy resigned yet ?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,680
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Is Laura K even trying to be impartial anymore?

    Why do you say this?
    Her programme was literally three Tories
    Was it?
    Yes, that well known Tory, former Lib Dem parliamentary candidate, Rachel Johnson.
    She was never a Lib Dem parliamentary candidate. She joined the Lib Dems briefly in 2017, and said she was interested in standing somewhere, but never did and was never an approved candidate (as a member for under a year she wasn't qualified under the rules). She later went to ChangeUK and I believe is now back with the Tories (although it isn't 100% clear). Certainly, she's wheeled out to bat for her brother.
    Yes, it was Change U.K. she stood for, not the Lib Dems.
    It should be noted that she was a European Election Parliamentary candidate, not a UK one.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779

    TFL Language guidance:
    Some of the new language guidelines do feel a bit weirdly OTT, though. Staff are urged to ‘avoid referring to conflicts by name if possible’. So, for example, to say ‘late 1940s’ instead of ‘post-World War II’. It’s not clear in what context this might come up. Maybe ‘The 19.39 to New Cross is delayed and is now expected in the late 19.40s.’

    https://www.timeout.com/london/news/theres-a-list-of-forbidden-terms-that-tfl-staff-arent-meant-to-use-101122

    Battle-that-took-place-in-1815 and City Line?
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,060
    Scott_xP said:

    Sandpit said:

    No-one fired from Google is going to be worried about making rent next month.

    But some of them will be worried about getting deported when their H1B isn't picked up by another company
    True, and this has to be less likely given the tech layoffs across are across the industry and not just confined to Google.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,311
    This is an interesting article.
    I was fairly young at the time, but I don’t remember either Truman or LBJ’s deaths being reported.

    January 1973 Was a Monumental Month for America
    Roe v. Wade was just one part of a period that reshaped our politics.
    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/01/roe-january-1973-politics-roadmap.html
  • Sandpit said:

    And there was all the outrage of how twitter employees got fired...classy stuff.

    17.5 years at google, goes to work at 4am, badge deactivated.

    https://twitter.com/Kantrowitz/status/1616888609885372416

    The VP of UX, Bobby Nath, found out when his home Google Nest hub stopped working because it was connected to his work email. I knew Bobby at Amazon, where he was brilliant and adored by one and all. It blows my mind that Google doesn't care about the optics here.

    https://twitter.com/KristiCCoulter/status/1616922886681563136

    Some of these people are acting as if they are victims of crime rather than just the vicissitudes of the job market.
    That’s a really good way of putting it.

    They’ll all be getting very handsomely paid off, same as the Twitter employees were. Yeah it sucks to lose a job, but it’s part of life. No-one fired from Google is going to be worried about making rent next month.
    Your last sentence is less than accurate, based on personal knowledge. Indeed absurd.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,943

    Scott_xP said:

    @guardian: Ludicrous ideas, perpetual scandal: the Conservatives are in absolute freefall | John Harris https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jan/22/tories-policy-conservative-party-government

    Yet 18 months ago, we were asking whether Starmer would be able to survive if Labour lost the Batley and Spen by-election.The same amount of time likely to the next election.

    Starmer is not teflon. He's getting away with things at the moment because of the focus on the Government but, as his "internal bleeding" and "the vast majority of women don't have penises" comments show, he's not exactly the Tony Blair of our generation.
    As someone who would very much like to see the back of your appallingly corrupt government, I would not be surprised if the Conservatives by some bizarre quirk of fate squeezed out another majority. I would nonetheless be shocked if Starmer/Labour or anyone else lost by being as disreputable as the current shower of ordure.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,060
    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    And there was all the outrage of how twitter employees got fired...classy stuff.

    17.5 years at google, goes to work at 4am, badge deactivated.

    https://twitter.com/Kantrowitz/status/1616888609885372416

    The VP of UX, Bobby Nath, found out when his home Google Nest hub stopped working because it was connected to his work email. I knew Bobby at Amazon, where he was brilliant and adored by one and all. It blows my mind that Google doesn't care about the optics here.

    https://twitter.com/KristiCCoulter/status/1616922886681563136

    Some of these people are acting as if they are victims of crime rather than just the vicissitudes of the job market.
    That’s a really good way of putting it.

    They’ll all be getting very handsomely paid off, same as the Twitter employees were. Yeah it sucks to lose a job, but it’s part of life. No-one fired from Google is going to be worried about making rent next month.
    Not sure about that. Fire at will contracts are quite common in the USA, often with just a few weeks pay in lieu of notice.

    I think it common practice for access to be denied before employees are informed in the IT sector so they cannot do sabotage or steal data.
    Don’t know about Google, but at Twitter everyone laid off was paid three months’ salary.

    Yes, I’ve been that IT guy getting a call in the middle of the night from a senior executive, asking to block systems access for a list of people before 6am. It’s standard procedure, even if it can come across as rather hostile to those on the receiving end if they’ve not experienced it before. Data protection, and the prevention of sabotage or espionage, is way more important to the company that a group of hacked-off former employees.

    It’s also usual to allow the redundant back to their office under supervision at some point, to collect their belongings and any non-work files, and to sort the paperwork.
    Plenty of reports on financial twitter that the Google package is excellent.

    https://twitter.com/01core_ben/status/1616793984810258433?s=61&t=veRxznJedbGF3B5-aZlagA
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,060
    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Is Laura K even trying to be impartial anymore?

    Why do you say this?
    Her programme was literally three Tories
    Was it?
    Yes, that well known Tory, former Lib Dem parliamentary candidate, Rachel Johnson.
    She was never a Lib Dem parliamentary candidate. She joined the Lib Dems briefly in 2017, and said she was interested in standing somewhere, but never did and was never an approved candidate (as a member for under a year she wasn't qualified under the rules). She later went to ChangeUK and I believe is now back with the Tories (although it isn't 100% clear). Certainly, she's wheeled out to bat for her brother.
    Yes, it was Change U.K. she stood for, not the Lib Dems.
    It should be noted that she was a European Election Parliamentary candidate, not a UK one.
    Aye, true. I should have added that rider.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,203
    edited January 2023
    Sandpit said:

    And there was all the outrage of how twitter employees got fired...classy stuff.

    17.5 years at google, goes to work at 4am, badge deactivated.

    https://twitter.com/Kantrowitz/status/1616888609885372416

    The VP of UX, Bobby Nath, found out when his home Google Nest hub stopped working because it was connected to his work email. I knew Bobby at Amazon, where he was brilliant and adored by one and all. It blows my mind that Google doesn't care about the optics here.

    https://twitter.com/KristiCCoulter/status/1616922886681563136

    How does a company do “your building access card no longer works one morning”, when everyone is employed remotely? Not an easy one.
    Trivial - terminate remote access. In the age of SSO this is a one system change
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,753

    TFL Language guidance:
    Some of the new language guidelines do feel a bit weirdly OTT, though. Staff are urged to ‘avoid referring to conflicts by name if possible’. So, for example, to say ‘late 1940s’ instead of ‘post-World War II’. It’s not clear in what context this might come up. Maybe ‘The 19.39 to New Cross is delayed and is now expected in the late 19.40s.’

    https://www.timeout.com/london/news/theres-a-list-of-forbidden-terms-that-tfl-staff-arent-meant-to-use-101122

    Maybe they used the "your train has been delayed due to the conflict in Ukraine" excuse one too many times.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,203

    TFL Language guidance:
    Some of the new language guidelines do feel a bit weirdly OTT, though. Staff are urged to ‘avoid referring to conflicts by name if possible’. So, for example, to say ‘late 1940s’ instead of ‘post-World War II’. It’s not clear in what context this might come up. Maybe ‘The 19.39 to New Cross is delayed and is now expected in the late 19.40s.’

    https://www.timeout.com/london/news/theres-a-list-of-forbidden-terms-that-tfl-staff-arent-meant-to-use-101122

    Maybe they used the "your train has been delayed due to the conflict in Ukraine" excuse one too many times.
    Fokker vs Fucker swear word problem ?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,943
    edited January 2023

    I seem to remember when people argued Germany was the leader of the free world and Britain would be captured by Russian money. Any rethinking going on?

    https://twitter.com/macaesbruno/status/1617213292568510466

    Come back to me for an answer when we have a transcript of the conversation between Johnson and Lebedev, and an accurate report of Johnson's activity and with whom he engaged on Lebedev's yacht whilst Johnson was Foreign Secretary. Johnson rocking up to Kyiv every five minutes doesn't clear up that particular mess, does it?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,807
    Taz said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Is Laura K even trying to be impartial anymore?

    Why do you say this?
    Her programme was literally three Tories
    Was it?
    Yes, that well known Tory, former Lib Dem parliamentary candidate, Rachel Johnson.
    She was never a Lib Dem parliamentary candidate. She joined the Lib Dems briefly in 2017, and said she was interested in standing somewhere, but never did and was never an approved candidate (as a member for under a year she wasn't qualified under the rules). She later went to ChangeUK and I believe is now back with the Tories (although it isn't 100% clear). Certainly, she's wheeled out to bat for her brother.
    Yes, it was Change U.K. she stood for, not the Lib Dems.
    It should be noted that she was a European Election Parliamentary candidate, not a UK one.
    Aye, true. I should have added that rider.
    In any event, her whole political career has been milking her brother for all it's worth.

    Ask yourself this, would Rachel Johnson have been on the programme if her brother was not Boris Johnson?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,943
    edited January 2023
    Nigelb said:

    Has the BBC guy resigned yet ?

    Ken Bruce? Yes he has. Simon Case needs to provide answers.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,060
    One for @Leon

    ChatGPT introduces a monthly subscription package at 42 bucks a month.

    Leon May well be right about this being transformative.

    https://twitter.com/grdecter/status/1617185699802791937?s=61&t=veRxznJedbGF3B5-aZlagA
  • NYT via Seattle Times ($) - Tech layoffs shock young workers. The older people? Not so much

    SAN FRANCISCO — When Lyft laid off 13% of its workers in November, Kelly Chang was shocked to find herself among the 700 people who lost their jobs at the San Francisco company.

    “It seemed like tech companies had so much opportunity,” said Chang, 26. “If you got a job, you made it. It was a sustainable path.”

    Issaquah-resident Brian Pulliam, on the other hand, brushed off the news that crypto exchange Coinbase was eliminating his job. Ever since the 48-year-old engineer was laid off from his first job at the video game company Atari in 2003, he said, he has asked himself once a year, “If I were laid off, what would I do?”

    The contrast between Chang’s and Pulliam’s reactions to their professional letdowns speaks to a generational divide that is becoming clearer as the tech industry, which expanded rapidly through the pandemic, swings toward mass layoffs.

    Microsoft said this week it planned to cut 10,000 jobs, or roughly 5% of its workforce. And Friday morning, Google’s parent company Alphabet said it planned to cut 12,000 jobs, or about 6% of its total. Their cuts followed big layoffs at other tech companies such as Meta, Amazon and Salesforce.

    Millennials and Generation Z, born between 1981 and 2012, started tech careers during a decadelong expansion when jobs multiplied as fast as iPhone sales. The companies they joined were conquering the world and defying economic rules. And when they went to work at outfits that offered bus rides to the office and amenities including free food and laundry, they weren’t just taking on a new job; they were taking on a lifestyle. Few of them had experienced widespread layoffs.

    Baby boomers and members of Generation X, born between 1946 and 1980, on the other hand, lived through the biggest contraction the industry has ever seen. The dot-com crash of the early 2000s eliminated more than 1 million jobs, emptying Silicon Valley’s Highway 101 of commuters as many companies folded overnight.

    “It was a bloodbath, and it went on for years,” said Jason DeMorrow, a software engineer who was laid off twice in 18 months and was out of work for more than six months. “As concerning as the current downturn is, and as much as I empathize with the people impacted, there’s no comparison.” . . .

  • TazTaz Posts: 15,060

    Taz said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Is Laura K even trying to be impartial anymore?

    Why do you say this?
    Her programme was literally three Tories
    Was it?
    Yes, that well known Tory, former Lib Dem parliamentary candidate, Rachel Johnson.
    She was never a Lib Dem parliamentary candidate. She joined the Lib Dems briefly in 2017, and said she was interested in standing somewhere, but never did and was never an approved candidate (as a member for under a year she wasn't qualified under the rules). She later went to ChangeUK and I believe is now back with the Tories (although it isn't 100% clear). Certainly, she's wheeled out to bat for her brother.
    Yes, it was Change U.K. she stood for, not the Lib Dems.
    It should be noted that she was a European Election Parliamentary candidate, not a UK one.
    Aye, true. I should have added that rider.
    In any event, her whole political career has been milking her brother for all it's worth.

    Ask yourself this, would Rachel Johnson have been on the programme if her brother was not Boris Johnson?
    Of course not but that doesn’t make her a Tory as was being claimed earlier.
This discussion has been closed.