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A Royal Rumble – politicalbetting.com

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  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,441

    Carnyx said:
    Guessing this will be one of them ‘overwhelming’ polls that HYUFD thinks are entirely meaningless.
    That's true, against the overwhelming support for Royalty in any form or kind - above all the inheritance principle. Which makes me, yet again, baffled that people think they can pick and choose between Royals.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,311
    The German Defense Ministry has had a list of Leopard tanks that could be possibly sent to Ukraine since summer 2022 - Spiegel

    Bundeswehr has 312 Leopard 2 tanks; 99 require repairs, 1 is to be written off. From the 212, 19 could be sent to Ukraine
    https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1617192217029869568
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,441

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Chris said:

    TFL Language guidance:
    Some of the new language guidelines do feel a bit weirdly OTT, though. Staff are urged to ‘avoid referring to conflicts by name if possible’. So, for example, to say ‘late 1940s’ instead of ‘post-World War II’. It’s not clear in what context this might come up. Maybe ‘The 19.39 to New Cross is delayed and is now expected in the late 19.40s.’

    https://www.timeout.com/london/news/theres-a-list-of-forbidden-terms-that-tfl-staff-arent-meant-to-use-101122

    Battle-that-took-place-in-1815 and City Line?
    Event, please. Not battle.
    Waterloo station isn’t named after battle of Waterloo - it’s named after Waterloo Bridge, nearest important point when the station was built. As joyous as it was when the Eurostar arrived at Waterloo it wasn’t as we chuckled at.
    What was Waterloo bridge named after?
    Obviously the Battle of Waterloo but, contrary to popular belief, the station is named after the bridge not the battle. Having been the sort of knob who laughed about the eurostar bringing frenchies into Waterloo station I was humbled to discover I was misguided.
    I imagine it’s a relief to any French visitors when they realise we are only indirectly insulting them…
    Hmm, they do have a Gare d'Austerlitz in Paris.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,711
    algarkirk said:

    Nigelb said:

    Is life in the UK really as bad as the numbers suggest? Yes, it is

    The past 15 years have been a disappointment on a scale we could hardly have imagined
    https://www.ft.com/content/ef830f78-75ee-4b91-a48e-04defa0f96d4

    Only if you are daft enough to think that human flourishing and happiness can only be measured by, and is wholly dependent upon, money and economic growth.

    The measurements used by the ft article are no more use in the UK than they would be in trying to measure the wellbeing of an unknown group of people in a remote valley in Papua New Guinea. It's just that we keep of being told they are.
    But what's going relatively great here to compensate for the material side going relatively poorly?
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,561

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Chris said:

    TFL Language guidance:
    Some of the new language guidelines do feel a bit weirdly OTT, though. Staff are urged to ‘avoid referring to conflicts by name if possible’. So, for example, to say ‘late 1940s’ instead of ‘post-World War II’. It’s not clear in what context this might come up. Maybe ‘The 19.39 to New Cross is delayed and is now expected in the late 19.40s.’

    https://www.timeout.com/london/news/theres-a-list-of-forbidden-terms-that-tfl-staff-arent-meant-to-use-101122

    Battle-that-took-place-in-1815 and City Line?
    Event, please. Not battle.
    Waterloo station isn’t named after battle of Waterloo - it’s named after Waterloo Bridge, nearest important point when the station was built. As joyous as it was when the Eurostar arrived at Waterloo it wasn’t as we chuckled at.
    What was Waterloo bridge named after?
    Obviously the Battle of Waterloo but, contrary to popular belief, the station is named after the bridge not the battle. Having been the sort of knob who laughed about the eurostar bringing frenchies into Waterloo station I was humbled to discover I was misguided.
    I imagine it’s a relief to any French visitors when they realise we are only indirectly insulting them…
    They will be staggered, especially the French waiter community, that it’s possible to indirectly insult people rather than just directly insult them.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,807
    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Chris said:

    TFL Language guidance:
    Some of the new language guidelines do feel a bit weirdly OTT, though. Staff are urged to ‘avoid referring to conflicts by name if possible’. So, for example, to say ‘late 1940s’ instead of ‘post-World War II’. It’s not clear in what context this might come up. Maybe ‘The 19.39 to New Cross is delayed and is now expected in the late 19.40s.’

    https://www.timeout.com/london/news/theres-a-list-of-forbidden-terms-that-tfl-staff-arent-meant-to-use-101122

    Battle-that-took-place-in-1815 and City Line?
    Event, please. Not battle.
    Waterloo station isn’t named after battle of Waterloo - it’s named after Waterloo Bridge, nearest important point when the station was built. As joyous as it was when the Eurostar arrived at Waterloo it wasn’t as we chuckled at.
    What was Waterloo bridge named after?
    Obviously the Battle of Waterloo but, contrary to popular belief, the station is named after the bridge not the battle. Having been the sort of knob who laughed about the eurostar bringing frenchies into Waterloo station I was humbled to discover I was misguided.
    Gare D'Austerlitz is also named after the bridge that's named after the battle, I believe.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,203
    Carnyx said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Chris said:

    TFL Language guidance:
    Some of the new language guidelines do feel a bit weirdly OTT, though. Staff are urged to ‘avoid referring to conflicts by name if possible’. So, for example, to say ‘late 1940s’ instead of ‘post-World War II’. It’s not clear in what context this might come up. Maybe ‘The 19.39 to New Cross is delayed and is now expected in the late 19.40s.’

    https://www.timeout.com/london/news/theres-a-list-of-forbidden-terms-that-tfl-staff-arent-meant-to-use-101122

    Battle-that-took-place-in-1815 and City Line?
    Event, please. Not battle.
    Waterloo station isn’t named after battle of Waterloo - it’s named after Waterloo Bridge, nearest important point when the station was built. As joyous as it was when the Eurostar arrived at Waterloo it wasn’t as we chuckled at.
    What was Waterloo bridge named after?
    Obviously the Battle of Waterloo but, contrary to popular belief, the station is named after the bridge not the battle. Having been the sort of knob who laughed about the eurostar bringing frenchies into Waterloo station I was humbled to discover I was misguided.
    I imagine it’s a relief to any French visitors when they realise we are only indirectly insulting them…
    Hmm, they do have a Gare d'Austerlitz in Paris.
    Yup Paris is full of monuments and places connecting to victories over other European (and non European) nations. It’s almost as if Paris was the capital of an Empire for several hundred years.

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,699
    Carnyx said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Chris said:

    TFL Language guidance:
    Some of the new language guidelines do feel a bit weirdly OTT, though. Staff are urged to ‘avoid referring to conflicts by name if possible’. So, for example, to say ‘late 1940s’ instead of ‘post-World War II’. It’s not clear in what context this might come up. Maybe ‘The 19.39 to New Cross is delayed and is now expected in the late 19.40s.’

    https://www.timeout.com/london/news/theres-a-list-of-forbidden-terms-that-tfl-staff-arent-meant-to-use-101122

    Battle-that-took-place-in-1815 and City Line?
    Event, please. Not battle.
    Waterloo station isn’t named after battle of Waterloo - it’s named after Waterloo Bridge, nearest important point when the station was built. As joyous as it was when the Eurostar arrived at Waterloo it wasn’t as we chuckled at.
    What was Waterloo bridge named after?
    Obviously the Battle of Waterloo but, contrary to popular belief, the station is named after the bridge not the battle. Having been the sort of knob who laughed about the eurostar bringing frenchies into Waterloo station I was humbled to discover I was misguided.
    I imagine it’s a relief to any French visitors when they realise we are only indirectly insulting them…
    Hmm, they do have a Gare d'Austerlitz in Paris.
    Not bothered - no Brits there…
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,561

    Carnyx said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Chris said:

    TFL Language guidance:
    Some of the new language guidelines do feel a bit weirdly OTT, though. Staff are urged to ‘avoid referring to conflicts by name if possible’. So, for example, to say ‘late 1940s’ instead of ‘post-World War II’. It’s not clear in what context this might come up. Maybe ‘The 19.39 to New Cross is delayed and is now expected in the late 19.40s.’

    https://www.timeout.com/london/news/theres-a-list-of-forbidden-terms-that-tfl-staff-arent-meant-to-use-101122

    Battle-that-took-place-in-1815 and City Line?
    Event, please. Not battle.
    Waterloo station isn’t named after battle of Waterloo - it’s named after Waterloo Bridge, nearest important point when the station was built. As joyous as it was when the Eurostar arrived at Waterloo it wasn’t as we chuckled at.
    What was Waterloo bridge named after?
    Obviously the Battle of Waterloo but, contrary to popular belief, the station is named after the bridge not the battle. Having been the sort of knob who laughed about the eurostar bringing frenchies into Waterloo station I was humbled to discover I was misguided.
    I imagine it’s a relief to any French visitors when they realise we are only indirectly insulting them…
    Hmm, they do have a Gare d'Austerlitz in Paris.
    Yup Paris is full of monuments and places connecting to victories over other European (and non European) nations. It’s almost as if Paris was the capital of an Empire for several hundred years.

    That’s precisely why there is no “Pont de Jersey” in Paris. They tried but one of Yorkshire’s finest soldiers stopped them in their (train) tracks.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,203
    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Chris said:

    TFL Language guidance:
    Some of the new language guidelines do feel a bit weirdly OTT, though. Staff are urged to ‘avoid referring to conflicts by name if possible’. So, for example, to say ‘late 1940s’ instead of ‘post-World War II’. It’s not clear in what context this might come up. Maybe ‘The 19.39 to New Cross is delayed and is now expected in the late 19.40s.’

    https://www.timeout.com/london/news/theres-a-list-of-forbidden-terms-that-tfl-staff-arent-meant-to-use-101122

    Battle-that-took-place-in-1815 and City Line?
    Event, please. Not battle.
    Waterloo station isn’t named after battle of Waterloo - it’s named after Waterloo Bridge, nearest important point when the station was built. As joyous as it was when the Eurostar arrived at Waterloo it wasn’t as we chuckled at.
    What was Waterloo bridge named after?
    Obviously the Battle of Waterloo but, contrary to popular belief, the station is named after the bridge not the battle. Having been the sort of knob who laughed about the eurostar bringing frenchies into Waterloo station I was humbled to discover I was misguided.
    I imagine it’s a relief to any French visitors when they realise we are only indirectly insulting them…
    Hmm, they do have a Gare d'Austerlitz in Paris.
    Yup Paris is full of monuments and places connecting to victories over other European (and non European) nations. It’s almost as if Paris was the capital of an Empire for several hundred years.

    That’s precisely why there is no “Pont de Jersey” in Paris. They tried but one of Yorkshire’s finest soldiers stopped them in their (train) tracks.
    Incidentally, the reason the bridge is still there is that Wellington prevented the Prussians blowing it up.
  • Regarding current visit by Boris Johnson to Ukraine, thing I'm wondering is, what's in it for Ukraine?

    Or rather, what is the strategy of President Zelenskyy, assuming it goes WAY beyond simple desire to thank the former Prime Minister?

    Among possible motives and goals, one obvious one is using BJ's celebrity AND status as early-and-often public advocate for UKR, to help UKR's cause in Europe and beyond at this critical juncture.

    Whatever my feelings about Boris Johnson, am more than willing to defer to President Z's judgement right now.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,711
    edited January 2023

    kinabalu said:

    I seem to remember when people argued Germany was the leader of the free world and Britain would be captured by Russian money. Any rethinking going on?

    https://twitter.com/macaesbruno/status/1617213292568510466

    Come back to me for an answer when we have a transcript of the conversation between Johnson and Lebedev, and an accurate report of Johnson's activity and with whom he engaged on Lebedev's yacht whilst Johnson was Foreign Secretary. Johnson rocking up to Kyiv every five minutes doesn't clear up that particular mess, does it?
    That's pretty much an impossible set of requests to ask for. But the way I see it; if Johnson et al did receive Russian money (and I don't think they did), then the Russians got the worst deal ever, given the way he extended Operation Orbital and was leading the world (yes, really) in the reaction to the invasion.

    Whereas look at Scholz and the German government: their actions are so genuinely mystifying that it's easy to come up with conspiracy theories to 'explain' it, including money. *If* the German government's actions is due to such corruption, then the Russians got a really, really, good deal.

    You'll probably think bad of Boris whatever. But his actions on Ukraine show that he is certainly not pro-Russian, and was not captured by Russian money. Unlike, say, Germany.
    Johnson was using Ukraine for deflection and 'Great Man' cosplay. Everything we know about him points to that conclusion.
    Nope. Your biases point to that conclusion. I really don't see it.
    Assessing Boris Johnson as a person driven by shallow self-interest isn't bias. It's aligned to all the evidence. It's YOUR bias - created by your passion for the Ukraine cause - leading you astray on this one. Not on the Ukraine cause, which is just and rightful, but on Johnson. If anything he did was good it's by pure chance.
  • It's more a poor reflection on the betting companies that create such a market. Irrespective of the betting, it woukd be best if Harry became Governor of Pitcairn Island.

    I would have thought that Andrew would be more suitable for that job.
    Over-qualified.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,047
    edited January 2023
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:
    Guessing this will be one of them ‘overwhelming’ polls that HYUFD thinks are entirely meaningless.
    That's true, against the overwhelming support for Royalty in any form or kind - above all the inheritance principle. Which makes me, yet again, baffled that people think they can pick and choose between Royals.
    Parliament can, only once senior politicians from Parliament had confirmed Charles as King at the accession council did he legally become King.

    We are a constitutional not an absolute monarchy
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,203

    Regarding current visit by Boris Johnson to Ukraine, thing I'm wondering is, what's in it for Ukraine?

    Or rather, what is the strategy of President Zelenskyy, assuming it goes WAY beyond simple desire to thank the former Prime Minister?

    Among possible motives and goals, one obvious one is using BJ's celebrity AND status as early-and-often public advocate for UKR, to help UKR's cause in Europe and beyond at this critical juncture.

    Whatever my feelings about Boris Johnson, am more than willing to defer to President Z's judgement right now.

    It’s down to the Ukrainians feeling gratitude for *early* and committed support. Ongoing since the 2014 invasion, as it was.

    I recall before the invasion, when the U.K. and the US were being described as “inflaming lol the situation by sending arms. By some here.

  • Blucher wanted to call it the Battle of Belle Alliance. Which would have been both geographically AND militarily correct.

    However, Wellington over-ruled him. For his own reasons.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,311
    algarkirk said:

    Nigelb said:

    Is life in the UK really as bad as the numbers suggest? Yes, it is

    The past 15 years have been a disappointment on a scale we could hardly have imagined
    https://www.ft.com/content/ef830f78-75ee-4b91-a48e-04defa0f96d4

    Only if you are daft enough to think that human flourishing and happiness can only be measured by, and is wholly dependent upon, money and economic growth.

    The measurements used by the ft article are no more use in the UK than they would be in trying to measure the wellbeing of an unknown group of people in a remote valley in Papua New Guinea. It's just that we keep of being told they are.
    I don’t think we’re quite that much of mystery to ourselves.
    Perhaps you’d like to describe for us the positive measures of progress over the past fifteen years.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,047

    Phil said:

    WillG said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    I seem to remember when people argued Germany was the leader of the free world and Britain would be captured by Russian money. Any rethinking going on?

    https://twitter.com/macaesbruno/status/1617213292568510466

    Come back to me for an answer when we have a transcript of the conversation between Johnson and Lebedev, and an accurate report of Johnson's activity and with whom he engaged on Lebedev's yacht whilst Johnson was Foreign Secretary. Johnson rocking up to Kyiv every five minutes doesn't clear up that particular mess, does it?
    How convenient to throw enough caveats in that your demands make your claim unfalsifiable. The trips point is deliberately misleading. Boris, for all his flaws, has been unwavering and leading in the military and financial support provided to Kyiv.
    Oh perlease. If it were anyone else I might give them the benefit of the doubt. Johnson's comprehensive self serving backstory allows me to treat his Ukrainian altruism, not so much with a pinch of salt, but with the entire county of Cheshire.
    Self-serving or otherwise, the UK has been a steadfast ally of Ukraine while Germany equivocates with one eye on future Russian deals. Completely the opposite to what Remainers predicted and no hint of contrition or self-reflection.
    I had not realised there was a “Remainer” position on Ukraine. Or is this just another Brexiter delusion?
    Let’s ask the archetypal Brexiteer, Farage.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_sy-yFAo_4
    Only because Remainers and the BBC pushed him so much. The Leave campaign did everything they could to marginalize him. He doesn't represent mainstream Leavers.
    F*** me! He was their poster boy!
    Remember the first rule of Brexit: everything that happens is the fault of Remainers & no responsibility whatsoever can attach to those who campaigned or voted for Brexit.
    Nope. In this case Mexicanpete is wrong. The official Leave campaign explicitly refused to include Farage in their campaign. Hence the reason Aaron Banks tried a legal challenge to get Leave.EU made into the official campaign as he believed it was a stitch up to ensure Remain won.

    In the words of Dominic Cummings, Farage was a "vain shallow egomaniac" and an "irrelevant pundit, happily and safely ignored".
    You are at least being a little disingenuous to me. Yes Farage was persona non grata in Team Johnson-Cummings, but he remained a high profile figure in the greater Leave campaign.
    Put it this way.

    Without Farage doing his thing, or the Romford UKIP van blasting out the theme from The Great Escape, what percentage would Leave have got in 2016?

    Impossible to tell, but I'd guess mid-40s. Having two Leave campaigns that could deny each other looked funny at the time but I'm confident that it expanded the overall reach of Leaverdom.
    If Farage not Boris had led the formal Leave campaign it would likely have been around 55% Remain 45% Leave, similar to the 2014 Scottish independence referendum in favour of the status quo.

    However UKIP would have got 15 to 20% at the next general election, mainly at Tory expense
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,561

    Regarding current visit by Boris Johnson to Ukraine, thing I'm wondering is, what's in it for Ukraine?

    Or rather, what is the strategy of President Zelenskyy, assuming it goes WAY beyond simple desire to thank the former Prime Minister?

    Among possible motives and goals, one obvious one is using BJ's celebrity AND status as early-and-often public advocate for UKR, to help UKR's cause in Europe and beyond at this critical juncture.

    Whatever my feelings about Boris Johnson, am more than willing to defer to President Z's judgement right now.

    It’s just one of those situations where everyone can be a winner.

    Boris survives - good PR
    Zelenskyy - just good PR
    Boris gets killed by a Russian missile, he’s a martyr hero.
    Boris gets killed by a Russian missile, Carrie is raking the insurance in.
    Boris gets killed by a Russian missile, Putin has a giggle.
    Boris gets killed by a Russian missile, a large part of the UK has a giggle.

    Boris survives, added stories for the rubber chicken circuit, thus more money.

    Everyone’s a winner.
  • Regarding current visit by Boris Johnson to Ukraine, thing I'm wondering is, what's in it for Ukraine?

    Or rather, what is the strategy of President Zelenskyy, assuming it goes WAY beyond simple desire to thank the former Prime Minister?

    Among possible motives and goals, one obvious one is using BJ's celebrity AND status as early-and-often public advocate for UKR, to help UKR's cause in Europe and beyond at this critical juncture.

    Whatever my feelings about Boris Johnson, am more than willing to defer to President Z's judgement right now.

    It’s down to the Ukrainians feeling gratitude for *early* and committed support. Ongoing since the 2014 invasion, as it was.

    I recall before the invasion, when the U.K. and the US were being described as “inflaming lol the situation by sending arms. By some here.

    Gratitude is all well and good. My point is that Z's strategy re: BJ goes BEYOND gratitude.

    Speaking of Winston Churchill impersonators, between May 1940 and December 1941(also after) WSC spent a LOT of time both flattering AND cajoling USA in general, and FDR in particular.

    And NOT out of simple desire to say "thank you"!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,943

    In the whole Johnson and Ukraine thing.

    There has been a fairly noticeable theme from some anti-Johnson people about Russian influence and involvement. And trying to work around the fact that according to a wide range of sources (some not naturally pro Johnson) that his support for Ukraine has been steadfast.

    For some people it’s a Bad Fact.

    This is the kind of thing that happens when your world view is tribal - people you oppose can’t do something right.

    In my case it is not so much tribal as a visceral dislike of the man, Johnson.

    I do not believe leopards change their spots. Johnson has spent his entire life feathering his own nest. Why should this time be any different?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,943
    boulay said:

    Regarding current visit by Boris Johnson to Ukraine, thing I'm wondering is, what's in it for Ukraine?

    Or rather, what is the strategy of President Zelenskyy, assuming it goes WAY beyond simple desire to thank the former Prime Minister?

    Among possible motives and goals, one obvious one is using BJ's celebrity AND status as early-and-often public advocate for UKR, to help UKR's cause in Europe and beyond at this critical juncture.

    Whatever my feelings about Boris Johnson, am more than willing to defer to President Z's judgement right now.

    It’s just one of those situations where everyone can be a winner.

    Boris survives - good PR
    Zelenskyy - just good PR
    Boris gets killed by a Russian missile, he’s a martyr hero.
    Boris gets killed by a Russian missile, Carrie is raking the insurance in.
    Boris gets killed by a Russian missile, Putin has a giggle.
    Boris gets killed by a Russian missile, a large part of the UK has a giggle.

    Boris survives, added stories for the rubber chicken circuit, thus more money.

    Everyone’s a winner.
    I don't like Johnson, but what a ridiculous post.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    edited January 2023
    Was not Waterloo, Belgium, named in honor of the great London train station?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,311
    boulay said:

    Regarding current visit by Boris Johnson to Ukraine, thing I'm wondering is, what's in it for Ukraine?

    Or rather, what is the strategy of President Zelenskyy, assuming it goes WAY beyond simple desire to thank the former Prime Minister?

    Among possible motives and goals, one obvious one is using BJ's celebrity AND status as early-and-often public advocate for UKR, to help UKR's cause in Europe and beyond at this critical juncture.

    Whatever my feelings about Boris Johnson, am more than willing to defer to President Z's judgement right now.

    It’s just one of those situations where everyone can be a winner.

    Boris survives - good PR
    Zelenskyy - just good PR
    Boris gets killed by a Russian missile, he’s a martyr hero.
    Boris gets killed by a Russian missile, Carrie is raking the insurance in.
    Boris gets killed by a Russian missile, Putin has a giggle.
    Boris gets killed by a Russian missile, a large part of the UK has a giggle...
    Would they ?

    I count myself among his detractors, But I would be decidedly unamused.

    And most of his detractors recognise that his Ukraine stance, whatever his motives, deserves credit.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,561

    boulay said:

    Regarding current visit by Boris Johnson to Ukraine, thing I'm wondering is, what's in it for Ukraine?

    Or rather, what is the strategy of President Zelenskyy, assuming it goes WAY beyond simple desire to thank the former Prime Minister?

    Among possible motives and goals, one obvious one is using BJ's celebrity AND status as early-and-often public advocate for UKR, to help UKR's cause in Europe and beyond at this critical juncture.

    Whatever my feelings about Boris Johnson, am more than willing to defer to President Z's judgement right now.

    It’s just one of those situations where everyone can be a winner.

    Boris survives - good PR
    Zelenskyy - just good PR
    Boris gets killed by a Russian missile, he’s a martyr hero.
    Boris gets killed by a Russian missile, Carrie is raking the insurance in.
    Boris gets killed by a Russian missile, Putin has a giggle.
    Boris gets killed by a Russian missile, a large part of the UK has a giggle.

    Boris survives, added stories for the rubber chicken circuit, thus more money.

    Everyone’s a winner.
    I don't like Johnson, but what a ridiculous post.
    It was clearly not serious.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,203

    Regarding current visit by Boris Johnson to Ukraine, thing I'm wondering is, what's in it for Ukraine?

    Or rather, what is the strategy of President Zelenskyy, assuming it goes WAY beyond simple desire to thank the former Prime Minister?

    Among possible motives and goals, one obvious one is using BJ's celebrity AND status as early-and-often public advocate for UKR, to help UKR's cause in Europe and beyond at this critical juncture.

    Whatever my feelings about Boris Johnson, am more than willing to defer to President Z's judgement right now.

    It’s down to the Ukrainians feeling gratitude for *early* and committed support. Ongoing since the 2014 invasion, as it was.

    I recall before the invasion, when the U.K. and the US were being described as “inflaming lol the situation by sending arms. By some here.

    Gratitude is all well and good. My point is that Z's strategy re: BJ goes BEYOND gratitude.

    Speaking of Winston Churchill impersonators, between May 1940 and December 1941(also after) WSC spent a LOT of time both flattering AND cajoling USA in general, and FDR in particular.

    And NOT out of simple desire to say "thank you"!
    I’m not sure it does go beyond simple gratitude.

    According to a Ukrainian former colleague, many in Ukraine are convinced that without British and US help before the war started, their country would have been overrun. Russia would have taken Kyiv etc.

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,203

    In the whole Johnson and Ukraine thing.

    There has been a fairly noticeable theme from some anti-Johnson people about Russian influence and involvement. And trying to work around the fact that according to a wide range of sources (some not naturally pro Johnson) that his support for Ukraine has been steadfast.

    For some people it’s a Bad Fact.

    This is the kind of thing that happens when your world view is tribal - people you oppose can’t do something right.

    In my case it is not so much tribal as a visceral dislike of the man, Johnson.

    I do not believe leopards change their spots. Johnson has spent his entire life feathering his own nest. Why should this time be any different?
    What Would WSC Do?

    Perhaps?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,311

    Was not Waterloo, Belgium, named in honor to the great London train station?

    Seems unlikely.
    “ The name of Waterloo was mentioned for the first time in 1102 designating a small hamlet at the limit of what is today known as the Sonian Forest, along a major road linking Brussels, Genappe and a coal mine to the south...”
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,311
    That was quite quick.

    https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1617223293710262275
    American infantry fighting vehicles M2 Bradley are spotted in Poland today

    Polish railway company PKP Polskie Linie Kolejowe transports Bradleys toward the Ukrainian border.
  • Regarding current visit by Boris Johnson to Ukraine, thing I'm wondering is, what's in it for Ukraine?

    Or rather, what is the strategy of President Zelenskyy, assuming it goes WAY beyond simple desire to thank the former Prime Minister?

    Among possible motives and goals, one obvious one is using BJ's celebrity AND status as early-and-often public advocate for UKR, to help UKR's cause in Europe and beyond at this critical juncture.

    Whatever my feelings about Boris Johnson, am more than willing to defer to President Z's judgement right now.

    It’s down to the Ukrainians feeling gratitude for *early* and committed support. Ongoing since the 2014 invasion, as it was.

    I recall before the invasion, when the U.K. and the US were being described as “inflaming lol the situation by sending arms. By some here.

    Gratitude is all well and good. My point is that Z's strategy re: BJ goes BEYOND gratitude.

    Speaking of Winston Churchill impersonators, between May 1940 and December 1941(also after) WSC spent a LOT of time both flattering AND cajoling USA in general, and FDR in particular.

    And NOT out of simple desire to say "thank you"!
    I’m not sure it does go beyond simple gratitude.

    According to a Ukrainian former colleague, many in Ukraine are convinced that without British and US help before the war started, their country would have been overrun. Russia would have taken Kyiv etc.

    My guess is that President Z is a a LOT more canny. And demanding. Like WSC before him.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,561
    Nigelb said:

    Was not Waterloo, Belgium, named in honor to the great London train station?

    Seems unlikely.
    “ The name of Waterloo was mentioned for the first time in 1102 designating a small hamlet at the limit of what is today known as the Sonian Forest, along a major road linking Brussels, Genappe and a coal mine to the south...”
    I think SeaShanty, like me, was not being serious.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,311
    BREAKING: Germany will not stand in the way if Poland sends leopard tanks to Ukraine, Germany's foreign minister says - Reuters
    https://twitter.com/Faytuks/status/1617250287261024262
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,680

    Blucher wanted to call it the Battle of Belle Alliance. Which would have been both geographically AND militarily correct.

    However, Wellington over-ruled him. For his own reasons.

    He had an apartment near Waterloo Bridge that he wanted to sell?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,203
    They have a bit of a monument to the defeat of Nelson at Tenerife - including the cannon that allegedly maimed him.

    Who should offended by this?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,109

    Regarding current visit by Boris Johnson to Ukraine, thing I'm wondering is, what's in it for Ukraine?

    Or rather, what is the strategy of President Zelenskyy, assuming it goes WAY beyond simple desire to thank the former Prime Minister?

    Among possible motives and goals, one obvious one is using BJ's celebrity AND status as early-and-often public advocate for UKR, to help UKR's cause in Europe and beyond at this critical juncture.

    Whatever my feelings about Boris Johnson, am more than willing to defer to President Z's judgement right now.

    BoZo is going to be the face of the Ukraine campaign to join the EU...

    He is going to tour EU capitals in a bus with a ridiculous slogan on the side.

    In other really stupid ideas...

    @christopherhope: This is worth a read for anyone who wants to understand why the Red Wall voted Conservative.
    If @RishiSunak listens… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1617273268007731200
  • rcs1000 said:

    Blucher wanted to call it the Battle of Belle Alliance. Which would have been both geographically AND militarily correct.

    However, Wellington over-ruled him. For his own reasons.

    He had an apartment near Waterloo Bridge that he wanted to sell?
    Maybe. However, think main motive, was to downgrade Prussian contribution (decisive) as much as possible.

    For reasons personal, professional and political (foreign & domestic).
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,699

    In the whole Johnson and Ukraine thing.

    There has been a fairly noticeable theme from some anti-Johnson people about Russian influence and involvement. And trying to work around the fact that according to a wide range of sources (some not naturally pro Johnson) that his support for Ukraine has been steadfast.

    For some people it’s a Bad Fact.

    This is the kind of thing that happens when your world view is tribal - people you oppose can’t do something right.

    In my case it is not so much tribal as a visceral dislike of the man, Johnson.

    I do not believe leopards change their spots. Johnson has spent his entire life feathering his own nest. Why should this time be any different?
    He has, and yet still his nest seems to need more feathers.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,203
    Nigelb said:

    That was quite quick.

    https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1617223293710262275
    American infantry fighting vehicles M2 Bradley are spotted in Poland today

    Polish railway company PKP Polskie Linie Kolejowe transports Bradleys toward the Ukrainian border.

    Given the number of times we have seen weapons turning up in Ukraine *before* they are announced…

    Also, this may not be for Ukraine. Could be for US troops in Poland.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,561
    rcs1000 said:

    Blucher wanted to call it the Battle of Belle Alliance. Which would have been both geographically AND militarily correct.

    However, Wellington over-ruled him. For his own reasons.

    He had an apartment near Waterloo Bridge that he wanted to sell?
    If only Wellington had an apartment in Gropec*nt lane.
  • On related note, when the 18th POTUS passed away in 1885, his old comrades and supporters thought it highly fitting (indeed self-evident) that he be laid to rest at that famous New York City landmark - Grant's Tomb.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,774
    Nigelb said:

    BREAKING: Germany will not stand in the way if Poland sends leopard tanks to Ukraine, Germany's foreign minister says - Reuters
    https://twitter.com/Faytuks/status/1617250287261024262

    Phillips O'Brien is quite optimistic. Despite German prevarication O'Brien thinks "people are losing sight of the bigger picture—which is that this was a good week, one of the best weeks even, for Ukraine in the war."
    https://phillipspobrien.substack.com/p/weekend-update-12?utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=auto_share&r=1tgexa
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,706
    Waterloo in Belgium was named after the gents in Victoria station
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,680
    boulay said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Blucher wanted to call it the Battle of Belle Alliance. Which would have been both geographically AND militarily correct.

    However, Wellington over-ruled him. For his own reasons.

    He had an apartment near Waterloo Bridge that he wanted to sell?
    If only Wellington had an apartment in Gropec*nt lane.
    That's in Shrewsbury, right?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,441
    rcs1000 said:

    boulay said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Blucher wanted to call it the Battle of Belle Alliance. Which would have been both geographically AND militarily correct.

    However, Wellington over-ruled him. For his own reasons.

    He had an apartment near Waterloo Bridge that he wanted to sell?
    If only Wellington had an apartment in Gropec*nt lane.
    That's in Shrewsbury, right?
    Varioous towns. There was one in Oxford - between Corpus Christi and the High Street. On checking, it's now called Magpie Lane.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,901
    Nigelb said:

    algarkirk said:

    Nigelb said:

    Is life in the UK really as bad as the numbers suggest? Yes, it is

    The past 15 years have been a disappointment on a scale we could hardly have imagined
    https://www.ft.com/content/ef830f78-75ee-4b91-a48e-04defa0f96d4

    Only if you are daft enough to think that human flourishing and happiness can only be measured by, and is wholly dependent upon, money and economic growth.

    The measurements used by the ft article are no more use in the UK than they would be in trying to measure the wellbeing of an unknown group of people in a remote valley in Papua New Guinea. It's just that we keep of being told they are.
    I don’t think we’re quite that much of mystery to ourselves.
    Perhaps you’d like to describe for us the positive measures of progress over the past fifteen years.

    I have no great illumination to share on how to measure 'positive measures of progress'. Only that, as I suggest, you can't say that UK life is "bad" in some measurable way just by looking at economic growth or money.

    Sometimes you read something like "people's disposable income it at the same level as it was in 2007" or something like that. As if in 2007 we were all miserable. lived on gravel and children went without shoes to school. Which is not the case.

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,109
    @TomLarkinSky: NEW: Confirmed by @robpowellnews that Nadhim Zahawi did reach HMRC settlement WHILE he was Chancellor.

    At the sam… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1617281122609795072
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,441
    edited January 2023
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:
    Guessing this will be one of them ‘overwhelming’ polls that HYUFD thinks are entirely meaningless.
    That's true, against the overwhelming support for Royalty in any form or kind - above all the inheritance principle. Which makes me, yet again, baffled that people think they can pick and choose between Royals.
    Parliament can, only once senior politicians from Parliament had confirmed Charles as King at the accession council did he legally become King.

    We are a constitutional not an absolute monarchy
    Missing the point. How often do the pols use those powers? How many times since 1689? **** all. And even in 1689 they juts bumped along one down the hereditary chain.

    Edward Saxe-Coburg-Gotha (wannabe Mr Simpson) doesn't count because they stuck to the hereditary principle.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,943

    In the whole Johnson and Ukraine thing.

    There has been a fairly noticeable theme from some anti-Johnson people about Russian influence and involvement. And trying to work around the fact that according to a wide range of sources (some not naturally pro Johnson) that his support for Ukraine has been steadfast.

    For some people it’s a Bad Fact.

    This is the kind of thing that happens when your world view is tribal - people you oppose can’t do something right.

    In my case it is not so much tribal as a visceral dislike of the man, Johnson.

    I do not believe leopards change their spots. Johnson has spent his entire life feathering his own nest. Why should this time be any different?
    He has, and yet still his nest seems to need more feathers.
    How do you know he is now virtuous and altruistic?

    It's a miracle, he's cured of his sociopathy. Shall we make him PM again?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,203
    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    boulay said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Blucher wanted to call it the Battle of Belle Alliance. Which would have been both geographically AND militarily correct.

    However, Wellington over-ruled him. For his own reasons.

    He had an apartment near Waterloo Bridge that he wanted to sell?
    If only Wellington had an apartment in Gropec*nt lane.
    That's in Shrewsbury, right?
    Varioous towns. There was one in Oxford - between Corpus Christi and the High Street. On checking, it's now called Magpie Lane.
    A moderate walk from Friars Entry…
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,109
    @guardian: The Guardian front page, Monday 23 January 2023. Britain forecast to reach £1tn export target 15 years late in wake… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1617282483912933376
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,943
    edited January 2023

    In the whole Johnson and Ukraine thing.

    There has been a fairly noticeable theme from some anti-Johnson people about Russian influence and involvement. And trying to work around the fact that according to a wide range of sources (some not naturally pro Johnson) that his support for Ukraine has been steadfast.

    For some people it’s a Bad Fact.

    This is the kind of thing that happens when your world view is tribal - people you oppose can’t do something right.

    In my case it is not so much tribal as a visceral dislike of the man, Johnson.

    I do not believe leopards change their spots. Johnson has spent his entire life feathering his own nest. Why should this time be any different?
    What Would WSC Do?

    Perhaps?
    Channel Boris Johnson through the mists of time?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,040

    Blucher wanted to call it the Battle of Belle Alliance. Which would have been both geographically AND militarily correct.

    However, Wellington over-ruled him. For his own reasons.

    He was an Abba fan?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,943
    Scott_xP said:

    @guardian: The Guardian front page, Monday 23 January 2023. Britain forecast to reach £1tn export target 15 years late in wake… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1617282483912933376

    Better late than never.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,047
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:
    Guessing this will be one of them ‘overwhelming’ polls that HYUFD thinks are entirely meaningless.
    That's true, against the overwhelming support for Royalty in any form or kind - above all the inheritance principle. Which makes me, yet again, baffled that people think they can pick and choose between Royals.
    Parliament can, only once senior politicians from Parliament had confirmed Charles as King at the accession council did he legally become King.

    We are a constitutional not an absolute monarchy
    Missing the point. How often do the pols use those powers? How many times since 1689? **** all. And even in 1689 they juts bumped along one down the hereditary chain.

    Edward Saxe-Coburg-Gotha (wannabe Mr Simpson) doesn't count because they stuck to the hereditary principle.
    As they haven't needed to. However they did with Edward VIII to his brother who proved an outstanding King.

    As we have a constitutional monarchy it should only be used in exceptional cases now, for example if the monarch committed a criminal offence or converted to Roman Catholicism
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    boulay said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Blucher wanted to call it the Battle of Belle Alliance. Which would have been both geographically AND militarily correct.

    However, Wellington over-ruled him. For his own reasons.

    He had an apartment near Waterloo Bridge that he wanted to sell?
    If only Wellington had an apartment in Gropec*nt lane.
    That's in Shrewsbury, right?
    Varioous towns. There was one in Oxford - between Corpus Christi and the High Street. On checking, it's now called Magpie Lane.
    An illuminating guided tour of Bristol.

    https://bristolha.wordpress.com/2021/08/05/a-sex-tour-of-medieval-bristol/
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,939
    geoffw said:

    Nigelb said:

    BREAKING: Germany will not stand in the way if Poland sends leopard tanks to Ukraine, Germany's foreign minister says - Reuters
    https://twitter.com/Faytuks/status/1617250287261024262

    Phillips O'Brien is quite optimistic. Despite German prevarication O'Brien thinks "people are losing sight of the bigger picture—which is that this was a good week, one of the best weeks even, for Ukraine in the war."
    https://phillipspobrien.substack.com/p/weekend-update-12?utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=auto_share&r=1tgexa
    A huge amount of modern and capable equipment was pledged to Ukraine in the past week and a substantial group of countries have signed up to providing Ukraine with the support required to push Russia out of all of Ukraine.

    To a certain extent the wrangling over Leopard tanks was a decent smokescreen to forestall any Russian claims of "E5ca1at10n!" at the large quantities of artillery and armoured vehicles that are being provided. Denmark has promised to provide all 19 of its Caesar 155mm artillery, the last two pieces of which were only recently delivered. We've moved a long way past countries rooting about in their warehouses to use Ukraine as a convenient place to dispose of obsolete kit.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,203
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:
    Guessing this will be one of them ‘overwhelming’ polls that HYUFD thinks are entirely meaningless.
    That's true, against the overwhelming support for Royalty in any form or kind - above all the inheritance principle. Which makes me, yet again, baffled that people think they can pick and choose between Royals.
    Parliament can, only once senior politicians from Parliament had confirmed Charles as King at the accession council did he legally become King.

    We are a constitutional not an absolute monarchy
    Missing the point. How often do the pols use those powers? How many times since 1689? **** all. And even in 1689 they juts bumped along one down the hereditary chain.

    Edward Saxe-Coburg-Gotha (wannabe Mr Simpson) doesn't count because they stuck to the hereditary principle.
    The U.K. monarchy has always been hereditary moderated by murder, treason and parliamentary “advice”.

    Just because it’s been a while….
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,259
    So was Queen Victoria also named after a railway station?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,222
    edited January 2023
    A couple of interesting by-elections in France. Both see Le Pen’s RN losing ground.

    https://twitter.com/europeelects/status/1617278880783400960?s=46&t=dU0J4twSLIELLK_OJxd-Ew

    https://twitter.com/europeelects/status/1617276531591577600?s=46&t=dU0J4twSLIELLK_OJxd-Ew

    Biggest gainer the left coalition but LREM doing OK too. Doesn’t look like the French - at least in the Pale of Calais and Charente - are in the mood for electing pro-Russian alt-right wingers just yet.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,706

    So was Queen Victoria also named after a railway station?

    According to eminent historian Simon Starkey thats where she was conceived, platform 12 behind the Wetherspoons bins.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,441

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    boulay said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Blucher wanted to call it the Battle of Belle Alliance. Which would have been both geographically AND militarily correct.

    However, Wellington over-ruled him. For his own reasons.

    He had an apartment near Waterloo Bridge that he wanted to sell?
    If only Wellington had an apartment in Gropec*nt lane.
    That's in Shrewsbury, right?
    Varioous towns. There was one in Oxford - between Corpus Christi and the High Street. On checking, it's now called Magpie Lane.
    A moderate walk from Friars Entry…
    And my historian friends also loved showing me Tidmarsh Lane round the back of the prison - formerly Titmouse Lane.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,898

    They have a bit of a monument to the defeat of Nelson at Tenerife - including the cannon that allegedly maimed him.

    Who should offended by this?

    Personally, I think it's fairly armless.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,222

    geoffw said:

    Nigelb said:

    BREAKING: Germany will not stand in the way if Poland sends leopard tanks to Ukraine, Germany's foreign minister says - Reuters
    https://twitter.com/Faytuks/status/1617250287261024262

    Phillips O'Brien is quite optimistic. Despite German prevarication O'Brien thinks "people are losing sight of the bigger picture—which is that this was a good week, one of the best weeks even, for Ukraine in the war."
    https://phillipspobrien.substack.com/p/weekend-update-12?utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=auto_share&r=1tgexa
    A huge amount of modern and capable equipment was pledged to Ukraine in the past week and a substantial group of countries have signed up to providing Ukraine with the support required to push Russia out of all of Ukraine.

    To a certain extent the wrangling over Leopard tanks was a decent smokescreen to forestall any Russian claims of "E5ca1at10n!" at the large quantities of artillery and armoured vehicles that are being provided. Denmark has promised to provide all 19 of its Caesar 155mm artillery, the last two pieces of which were only recently delivered. We've moved a long way past countries rooting about in their warehouses to use Ukraine as a convenient place to dispose of obsolete kit.
    Good point about the smokescreen. Perhaps they could engineer a row about whether the US should provide Ukraine with a fleet of nuclear submarines armed with ICBMs trained on Moscow, and regrettably conclude that this wouldn’t be a good idea to the annoyance if the Ukrainians, all the while shipping tanks and fighter jets by the hundred across the border.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,441

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:
    Guessing this will be one of them ‘overwhelming’ polls that HYUFD thinks are entirely meaningless.
    That's true, against the overwhelming support for Royalty in any form or kind - above all the inheritance principle. Which makes me, yet again, baffled that people think they can pick and choose between Royals.
    Parliament can, only once senior politicians from Parliament had confirmed Charles as King at the accession council did he legally become King.

    We are a constitutional not an absolute monarchy
    Missing the point. How often do the pols use those powers? How many times since 1689? **** all. And even in 1689 they juts bumped along one down the hereditary chain.

    Edward Saxe-Coburg-Gotha (wannabe Mr Simpson) doesn't count because they stuck to the hereditary principle.
    The U.K. monarchy has always been hereditary moderated by murder, treason and parliamentary “advice”.

    Just because it’s been a while….
    UK?! Even if you go on the union of the Crowns, not Parliaments, that's just one legal execution for treason, and two examples of parliamentary advice (three if you count the one combined with the aforesaud execution).
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,939
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:
    Guessing this will be one of them ‘overwhelming’ polls that HYUFD thinks are entirely meaningless.
    That's true, against the overwhelming support for Royalty in any form or kind - above all the inheritance principle. Which makes me, yet again, baffled that people think they can pick and choose between Royals.
    Parliament can, only once senior politicians from Parliament had confirmed Charles as King at the accession council did he legally become King.

    We are a constitutional not an absolute monarchy
    Missing the point. How often do the pols use those powers? How many times since 1689? **** all. And even in 1689 they juts bumped along one down the hereditary chain.

    Edward Saxe-Coburg-Gotha (wannabe Mr Simpson) doesn't count because they stuck to the hereditary principle.
    There was the Act of Settlement to choose the Hanoverian succession - I think they skipped about 50-odd people in the line of succession with that one.

    I don't know why you think the 1936 Abdication doesn't count. Parliament wasn't happy with the marriage, and Parliament got its way and forced the King to abdicate. It was Parliament, or at least the Cabinet/Government, that determined that Eddy would no longer be King, the inheritance principle be damned.

    The fundamental basis of a constitutional monarchy is that the monarch is beneath the law, and the law is a creation of Parliament, and if the monarch does not keep to their side of the bargain then Parliament will find someone who will.

    Consequently, we can be very confident that Andrew would be instructed to abdicate were he ever at any risk of becoming King, because Parliament would know that the public wouldn't tolerate him taking up the role.

    Personally I still think that the monarchy is a very silly idea, but the inviolability of the inheritance principle has never been all that strong. Even arguably back to the 16th century, and the succession to Edward VI, it was consequential that his devise for the succession had not passed Parliament, unlike the succession settled on by Henry VIII.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,259
    Jonathan said:

    So was Queen Victoria also named after a railway station?

    According to eminent historian Simon Starkey thats where she was conceived, platform 12 behind the Wetherspoons bins.
    So her parents were pioneers of the Posh & Becks approach.
  • Phil said:

    WillG said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    I seem to remember when people argued Germany was the leader of the free world and Britain would be captured by Russian money. Any rethinking going on?

    https://twitter.com/macaesbruno/status/1617213292568510466

    Come back to me for an answer when we have a transcript of the conversation between Johnson and Lebedev, and an accurate report of Johnson's activity and with whom he engaged on Lebedev's yacht whilst Johnson was Foreign Secretary. Johnson rocking up to Kyiv every five minutes doesn't clear up that particular mess, does it?
    How convenient to throw enough caveats in that your demands make your claim unfalsifiable. The trips point is deliberately misleading. Boris, for all his flaws, has been unwavering and leading in the military and financial support provided to Kyiv.
    Oh perlease. If it were anyone else I might give them the benefit of the doubt. Johnson's comprehensive self serving backstory allows me to treat his Ukrainian altruism, not so much with a pinch of salt, but with the entire county of Cheshire.
    Self-serving or otherwise, the UK has been a steadfast ally of Ukraine while Germany equivocates with one eye on future Russian deals. Completely the opposite to what Remainers predicted and no hint of contrition or self-reflection.
    I had not realised there was a “Remainer” position on Ukraine. Or is this just another Brexiter delusion?
    Let’s ask the archetypal Brexiteer, Farage.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_sy-yFAo_4
    Only because Remainers and the BBC pushed him so much. The Leave campaign did everything they could to marginalize him. He doesn't represent mainstream Leavers.
    F*** me! He was their poster boy!
    Remember the first rule of Brexit: everything that happens is the fault of Remainers & no responsibility whatsoever can attach to those who campaigned or voted for Brexit.
    Nope. In this case Mexicanpete is wrong. The official Leave campaign explicitly refused to include Farage in their campaign. Hence the reason Aaron Banks tried a legal challenge to get Leave.EU made into the official campaign as he believed it was a stitch up to ensure Remain won.

    In the words of Dominic Cummings, Farage was a "vain shallow egomaniac" and an "irrelevant pundit, happily and safely ignored".
    You are at least being a little disingenuous to me. Yes Farage was persona non grata in Team Johnson-Cummings, but he remained a high profile figure in the greater Leave campaign.
    So he was persona non grata with the official campaign. How then can they be held responsible for him? Tony Blair at least had the self awareness to know that if he campaigned for Remain it would drive more people to the Leave campaign. And yet I could claim he was the 'poster boy' for Remain as he made his views clear and would be as equally wrong as you are.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,572

    WillG said:



    The German reaction to Gaddaffi's imminent genocide right on Europe's borders showed how weak their leadership on foreign affairs is. As was the EU's general lack of willing to bolster the UK after the Litvinenko and Skripal poisonings.

    Disagree on our intervention vs Gaddafi, based on some admittedfly extrfemely bellicose statements by his son. Gaddafi was a unique case of someone talked into giving up WMD voluntarily, whereupon we knifed him at the first opportunity, after which we lost interest and let the country collapse into apparently permanent civil war. We are FAR too willing to intervene all over the place, without thinking much about what happens next - something I learned after voting for the Iraq intervention. German caution is particularly appropriate givien their history, but sensible anyway.
    The big difference between the situation with Ukraine now, and the situation with Iraq (2003), Libya, Syria, and many others, is that Ukraine has a democratically elected government, a healthy civil society and a plural media. There's something already there which is asking for our support, we're not trying to create something from a vacuum.

    This is such a massive difference, and goes to the heart of why many of our interventions have been disastrous, that I think it makes comparing intervention in Ukraine with intervention in Libya absurd.

    I've been a pretty consistent critic of Western intervention for many years, including Iraq (2003), so I have a longer pedigree than you at doing so, and I genuinely do think that Ukraine is a very different case and Western intervention is unusually worth supporting.
    I wasn't actually discussing Ukraine in this case, but replying to WillG's comment that "The German reaction to Gaddaffi's imminent genocide right on Europe's borders showed how weak their leadership on foreign affairs is." I disagree with Will that Germany was wrong to be reluctant to intervene against Gaddafi.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,203
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:
    Guessing this will be one of them ‘overwhelming’ polls that HYUFD thinks are entirely meaningless.
    That's true, against the overwhelming support for Royalty in any form or kind - above all the inheritance principle. Which makes me, yet again, baffled that people think they can pick and choose between Royals.
    Parliament can, only once senior politicians from Parliament had confirmed Charles as King at the accession council did he legally become King.

    We are a constitutional not an absolute monarchy
    Missing the point. How often do the pols use those powers? How many times since 1689? **** all. And even in 1689 they juts bumped along one down the hereditary chain.

    Edward Saxe-Coburg-Gotha (wannabe Mr Simpson) doesn't count because they stuck to the hereditary principle.
    The U.K. monarchy has always been hereditary moderated by murder, treason and parliamentary “advice”.

    Just because it’s been a while….
    UK?! Even if you go on the union of the Crowns, not Parliaments, that's just one legal execution for treason, and two examples of parliamentary advice (three if you count the one combined with the aforesaud execution).
    Both the Scottish and English branches had quite a bit of head count reduction, followed by innovative in/out sourcing of the role.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,822

    They have a bit of a monument to the defeat of Nelson at Tenerife - including the cannon that allegedly maimed him.

    Who should offended by this?

    Personally, I think it's fairly armless.
    Eye eye, sir.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,481
    edited January 2023
    Tim Loughton no idea about the difference between supply teachers and volunteers.
    He seems to consider a TA working with some of the most difficult SEND pupils as a voluntary job.
    Which says it all.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,047
    TimS said:

    A couple of interesting by-elections in France. Both see Le Pen’s RN losing ground.

    https://twitter.com/europeelects/status/1617278880783400960?s=46&t=dU0J4twSLIELLK_OJxd-Ew

    https://twitter.com/europeelects/status/1617276531591577600?s=46&t=dU0J4twSLIELLK_OJxd-Ew

    Biggest gainer the left coalition but LREM doing OK too. Doesn’t look like the French - at least in the Pale of Calais and Charente - are in the mood for electing pro-Russian alt-right wingers just yet.

    Melenchon is also pro Putin like Le Pen
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    WillG said:



    The German reaction to Gaddaffi's imminent genocide right on Europe's borders showed how weak their leadership on foreign affairs is. As was the EU's general lack of willing to bolster the UK after the Litvinenko and Skripal poisonings.

    Disagree on our intervention vs Gaddafi, based on some admittedfly extrfemely bellicose statements by his son. Gaddafi was a unique case of someone talked into giving up WMD voluntarily, whereupon we knifed him at the first opportunity, after which we lost interest and let the country collapse into apparently permanent civil war. We are FAR too willing to intervene all over the place, without thinking much about what happens next - something I learned after voting for the Iraq intervention. German caution is particularly appropriate givien their history, but sensible anyway.
    The big difference between the situation with Ukraine now, and the situation with Iraq (2003), Libya, Syria, and many others, is that Ukraine has a democratically elected government, a healthy civil society and a plural media. There's something already there which is asking for our support, we're not trying to create something from a vacuum.

    This is such a massive difference, and goes to the heart of why many of our interventions have been disastrous, that I think it makes comparing intervention in Ukraine with intervention in Libya absurd.

    I've been a pretty consistent critic of Western intervention for many years, including Iraq (2003), so I have a longer pedigree than you at doing so, and I genuinely do think that Ukraine is a very different case and Western intervention is unusually worth supporting.
    I wasn't actually discussing Ukraine in this case, but replying to WillG's comment that "The German reaction to Gaddaffi's imminent genocide right on Europe's borders showed how weak their leadership on foreign affairs is." I disagree with Will that Germany was wrong to be reluctant to intervene against Gaddafi.
    So we should have stood by and allowed a genocide?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,939
    TimS said:

    geoffw said:

    Nigelb said:

    BREAKING: Germany will not stand in the way if Poland sends leopard tanks to Ukraine, Germany's foreign minister says - Reuters
    https://twitter.com/Faytuks/status/1617250287261024262

    Phillips O'Brien is quite optimistic. Despite German prevarication O'Brien thinks "people are losing sight of the bigger picture—which is that this was a good week, one of the best weeks even, for Ukraine in the war."
    https://phillipspobrien.substack.com/p/weekend-update-12?utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=auto_share&r=1tgexa
    A huge amount of modern and capable equipment was pledged to Ukraine in the past week and a substantial group of countries have signed up to providing Ukraine with the support required to push Russia out of all of Ukraine.

    To a certain extent the wrangling over Leopard tanks was a decent smokescreen to forestall any Russian claims of "E5ca1at10n!" at the large quantities of artillery and armoured vehicles that are being provided. Denmark has promised to provide all 19 of its Caesar 155mm artillery, the last two pieces of which were only recently delivered. We've moved a long way past countries rooting about in their warehouses to use Ukraine as a convenient place to dispose of obsolete kit.
    Good point about the smokescreen. Perhaps they could engineer a row about whether the US should provide Ukraine with a fleet of nuclear submarines armed with ICBMs trained on Moscow, and regrettably conclude that this wouldn’t be a good idea to the annoyance if the Ukrainians, all the while shipping tanks and fighter jets by the hundred across the border.
    Well, there's been a lot of wrangling over providing ATACMS (range 300km) for Ukraine, while at the same time there are much quieter suggestions that Ukraine may receive the Ground Launched Small Diameter Bomb (range 150km) which would be a decent range increase on the current HIMARS/M270 ammunition. I don't think it's impossible that there's an element of theatre about this.

    If we start hearing lots of suggestions about providing cruise missiles to Ukraine, then that might be a sign that Russia are being normalised to the idea of ATACMS not being so bad really.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,822
    dixiedean said:

    Tim Loughton no idea about the difference between supply teachers and volunteers.
    He seems to consider a TA working with some of the most difficult SEND pupils as a voluntary job.
    Which says it all.

    He’s an idiot. But he’s not totally without redeeming features.

    I don’t know what they are exactly, tbf, but the DfE hate his guts and think he’s stupid and nasty so he must have something going for him.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,222
    WillG said:

    WillG said:



    The German reaction to Gaddaffi's imminent genocide right on Europe's borders showed how weak their leadership on foreign affairs is. As was the EU's general lack of willing to bolster the UK after the Litvinenko and Skripal poisonings.

    Disagree on our intervention vs Gaddafi, based on some admittedfly extrfemely bellicose statements by his son. Gaddafi was a unique case of someone talked into giving up WMD voluntarily, whereupon we knifed him at the first opportunity, after which we lost interest and let the country collapse into apparently permanent civil war. We are FAR too willing to intervene all over the place, without thinking much about what happens next - something I learned after voting for the Iraq intervention. German caution is particularly appropriate givien their history, but sensible anyway.
    The big difference between the situation with Ukraine now, and the situation with Iraq (2003), Libya, Syria, and many others, is that Ukraine has a democratically elected government, a healthy civil society and a plural media. There's something already there which is asking for our support, we're not trying to create something from a vacuum.

    This is such a massive difference, and goes to the heart of why many of our interventions have been disastrous, that I think it makes comparing intervention in Ukraine with intervention in Libya absurd.

    I've been a pretty consistent critic of Western intervention for many years, including Iraq (2003), so I have a longer pedigree than you at doing so, and I genuinely do think that Ukraine is a very different case and Western intervention is unusually worth supporting.
    I wasn't actually discussing Ukraine in this case, but replying to WillG's comment that "The German reaction to Gaddaffi's imminent genocide right on Europe's borders showed how weak their leadership on foreign affairs is." I disagree with Will that Germany was wrong to be reluctant to intervene against Gaddafi.
    So we should have stood by and allowed a genocide?
    Libya is sadly an example of where partial aerial intervention was probably the worst of all worlds. Proper boots on the ground might have done better.

    But it’s also an example of how foreign policy is always a gamble. Sometimes we’re damned if we do, sometimes if we don’t. It now seems pretty clear that the West was wrong not to intervene in Syria early on. But at the time it didn’t seem that simple. Iraq was different: unprovoked escalation, which was always going to be a bad idea.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,481
    edited January 2023
    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Tim Loughton no idea about the difference between supply teachers and volunteers.
    He seems to consider a TA working with some of the most difficult SEND pupils as a voluntary job.
    Which says it all.

    He’s an idiot. But he’s not totally without redeeming features.

    I don’t know what they are exactly, tbf, but the DfE hate his guts and think he’s stupid and nasty so he must have something going for him.
    Yeah. I've always had time for him.
    The Party line seems to be this though.
    Teachers will strike. But nasty Unions will prevent any old parent or local busybody from waltzing in and covering (unpaid) what is an absolute piece of piss, not a proper job.
    And it'll be just peachy if only there weren't bastard Union Barons involved.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,222
    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    A couple of interesting by-elections in France. Both see Le Pen’s RN losing ground.

    https://twitter.com/europeelects/status/1617278880783400960?s=46&t=dU0J4twSLIELLK_OJxd-Ew

    https://twitter.com/europeelects/status/1617276531591577600?s=46&t=dU0J4twSLIELLK_OJxd-Ew

    Biggest gainer the left coalition but LREM doing OK too. Doesn’t look like the French - at least in the Pale of Calais and Charente - are in the mood for electing pro-Russian alt-right wingers just yet.

    Melenchon is also pro Putin like Le Pen
    Yes he is, probably more idiotically so than even Corbyn. Less dangerous to European peace though because he will never get close to being president of the republic, whereas Le Pen might.

    Though it incessantly feels like if and when Marine becomes President she’ll have moved so far to the centre she’ll be no more dangerous to European politics than Meloni (and rather less than Orban or indeed Duda and Morawiecki).
  • So was Queen Victoria also named after a railway station?

    Jubilee line was named in honour of the Marvel X-Men character.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,481
    edited January 2023
    Wakefield Trinity came from the fit lass in the Matrix.
  • Lockdown 'sex party' at Newcastle Cathedral under investigation by the Vatican

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/22/lockdown-sex-party-newcastle-cathedral-investigation-vatican/
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,481

    Lockdown 'sex party' at Newcastle Cathedral under investigation by the Vatican

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/22/lockdown-sex-party-newcastle-cathedral-investigation-vatican/

    Well crumbs.
    I thought nowt was happening.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,320
    edited January 2023

    Phil said:

    WillG said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    I seem to remember when people argued Germany was the leader of the free world and Britain would be captured by Russian money. Any rethinking going on?

    https://twitter.com/macaesbruno/status/1617213292568510466

    Come back to me for an answer when we have a transcript of the conversation between Johnson and Lebedev, and an accurate report of Johnson's activity and with whom he engaged on Lebedev's yacht whilst Johnson was Foreign Secretary. Johnson rocking up to Kyiv every five minutes doesn't clear up that particular mess, does it?
    How convenient to throw enough caveats in that your demands make your claim unfalsifiable. The trips point is deliberately misleading. Boris, for all his flaws, has been unwavering and leading in the military and financial support provided to Kyiv.
    Oh perlease. If it were anyone else I might give them the benefit of the doubt. Johnson's comprehensive self serving backstory allows me to treat his Ukrainian altruism, not so much with a pinch of salt, but with the entire county of Cheshire.
    Self-serving or otherwise, the UK has been a steadfast ally of Ukraine while Germany equivocates with one eye on future Russian deals. Completely the opposite to what Remainers predicted and no hint of contrition or self-reflection.
    I had not realised there was a “Remainer” position on Ukraine. Or is this just another Brexiter delusion?
    Let’s ask the archetypal Brexiteer, Farage.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_sy-yFAo_4
    Only because Remainers and the BBC pushed him so much. The Leave campaign did everything they could to marginalize him. He doesn't represent mainstream Leavers.
    F*** me! He was their poster boy!
    Remember the first rule of Brexit: everything that happens is the fault of Remainers & no responsibility whatsoever can attach to those who campaigned or voted for Brexit.
    Nope. In this case Mexicanpete is wrong. The official Leave campaign explicitly refused to include Farage in their campaign. Hence the reason Aaron Banks tried a legal challenge to get Leave.EU made into the official campaign as he believed it was a stitch up to ensure Remain won.

    In the words of Dominic Cummings, Farage was a "vain shallow egomaniac" and an "irrelevant pundit, happily and safely ignored".
    You are at least being a little disingenuous to me. Yes Farage was persona non grata in Team Johnson-Cummings, but he remained a high profile figure in the greater Leave campaign.
    So he was persona non grata with the official campaign. How then can they be held responsible for him? Tony Blair at least had the self awareness to know that if he campaigned for Remain it would drive more people to the Leave campaign. And yet I could claim he was the 'poster boy' for Remain as he made his views clear and would be as equally wrong as you are.
    Again, I must have missed the bit where Tony Blair set up the “EU Party”, spent years on Question Time promoting further integration, and then led a major, albeit “unofficial”, pro-EU campaign during the referendum.

    We know you don’t like Farage, and have profound disagreements with him, but he is your ideological comrade-in-arms nonetheless.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277
    Scott_xP said:
    Zero sympathy . If people can’t be bothered to inform themselves and fall for the moon on a stick bollocks they only have themselves to blame .
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,320

    Lockdown 'sex party' at Newcastle Cathedral under investigation by the Vatican

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/22/lockdown-sex-party-newcastle-cathedral-investigation-vatican/

    Boris managed to get to Newcastle Cathedral?
  • glwglw Posts: 9,956

    Regarding current visit by Boris Johnson to Ukraine, thing I'm wondering is, what's in it for Ukraine?

    Or rather, what is the strategy of President Zelenskyy, assuming it goes WAY beyond simple desire to thank the former Prime Minister?

    Among possible motives and goals, one obvious one is using BJ's celebrity AND status as early-and-often public advocate for UKR, to help UKR's cause in Europe and beyond at this critical juncture.

    Whatever my feelings about Boris Johnson, am more than willing to defer to President Z's judgement right now.

    One obvious benefit for Ukraine is that it's a signal to any Tories going wobbly on Ukraine, like potentially Sunak.

    I expect that my vote at the next general election will be entirely decided by what happens or is happening in Ukraine. I'll be voting for the hawkiest hawk, and all other issues can take a back seat.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,320
    nico679 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Zero sympathy . If people can’t be bothered to inform themselves and fall for the moon on a stick bollocks they only have themselves to blame .
    Maybe, but that’s impractical given it was 52% of the population.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,047

    Lockdown 'sex party' at Newcastle Cathedral under investigation by the Vatican

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/22/lockdown-sex-party-newcastle-cathedral-investigation-vatican/

    Boris managed to get to Newcastle Cathedral?
    Well it was the Roman Catholic cathedral involved here, not the Church of England cathedral and Boris is now RC.

    No suggestion the Bishop was involved, seems to have occurred under the late Dean
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,047
    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    A couple of interesting by-elections in France. Both see Le Pen’s RN losing ground.

    https://twitter.com/europeelects/status/1617278880783400960?s=46&t=dU0J4twSLIELLK_OJxd-Ew

    https://twitter.com/europeelects/status/1617276531591577600?s=46&t=dU0J4twSLIELLK_OJxd-Ew

    Biggest gainer the left coalition but LREM doing OK too. Doesn’t look like the French - at least in the Pale of Calais and Charente - are in the mood for electing pro-Russian alt-right wingers just yet.

    Melenchon is also pro Putin like Le Pen
    Yes he is, probably more idiotically so than even Corbyn. Less dangerous to European peace though because he will never get close to being president of the republic, whereas Le Pen might.

    Though it incessantly feels like if and when Marine becomes President she’ll have moved so far to the centre she’ll be no more dangerous to European politics than Meloni (and rather less than Orban or indeed Duda and Morawiecki).
    If Melenchon reached the runoff he has an outside chance of the Elysee. Meloni is economically right of Le Pen and also more pro Zelensky
  • Phil said:

    WillG said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    I seem to remember when people argued Germany was the leader of the free world and Britain would be captured by Russian money. Any rethinking going on?

    https://twitter.com/macaesbruno/status/1617213292568510466

    Come back to me for an answer when we have a transcript of the conversation between Johnson and Lebedev, and an accurate report of Johnson's activity and with whom he engaged on Lebedev's yacht whilst Johnson was Foreign Secretary. Johnson rocking up to Kyiv every five minutes doesn't clear up that particular mess, does it?
    How convenient to throw enough caveats in that your demands make your claim unfalsifiable. The trips point is deliberately misleading. Boris, for all his flaws, has been unwavering and leading in the military and financial support provided to Kyiv.
    Oh perlease. If it were anyone else I might give them the benefit of the doubt. Johnson's comprehensive self serving backstory allows me to treat his Ukrainian altruism, not so much with a pinch of salt, but with the entire county of Cheshire.
    Self-serving or otherwise, the UK has been a steadfast ally of Ukraine while Germany equivocates with one eye on future Russian deals. Completely the opposite to what Remainers predicted and no hint of contrition or self-reflection.
    I had not realised there was a “Remainer” position on Ukraine. Or is this just another Brexiter delusion?
    Let’s ask the archetypal Brexiteer, Farage.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_sy-yFAo_4
    Only because Remainers and the BBC pushed him so much. The Leave campaign did everything they could to marginalize him. He doesn't represent mainstream Leavers.
    F*** me! He was their poster boy!
    Remember the first rule of Brexit: everything that happens is the fault of Remainers & no responsibility whatsoever can attach to those who campaigned or voted for Brexit.
    Nope. In this case Mexicanpete is wrong. The official Leave campaign explicitly refused to include Farage in their campaign. Hence the reason Aaron Banks tried a legal challenge to get Leave.EU made into the official campaign as he believed it was a stitch up to ensure Remain won.

    In the words of Dominic Cummings, Farage was a "vain shallow egomaniac" and an "irrelevant pundit, happily and safely ignored".
    You are at least being a little disingenuous to me. Yes Farage was persona non grata in Team Johnson-Cummings, but he remained a high profile figure in the greater Leave campaign.
    So he was persona non grata with the official campaign. How then can they be held responsible for him? Tony Blair at least had the self awareness to know that if he campaigned for Remain it would drive more people to the Leave campaign. And yet I could claim he was the 'poster boy' for Remain as he made his views clear and would be as equally wrong as you are.
    Again, I must have missed the bit where Tony Blair set up the “EU Party”, spent years on Question Time promoting further integration, and then led a major, albeit “unofficial”, pro-EU campaign during the referendum.

    We know you don’t like Farage, and have profound disagreements with him, but he is your ideological comrade-in-arms nonetheless.
    The Pro-EU party was Labour. Blair didn't have to appear on question time to promote his cause. He was the PM.

    Farage was as much my ideological comrade in arms as Stalin was to Kier Starmer. Both are/would be ludicrous claims.

  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,320

    Phil said:

    WillG said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    I seem to remember when people argued Germany was the leader of the free world and Britain would be captured by Russian money. Any rethinking going on?

    https://twitter.com/macaesbruno/status/1617213292568510466

    Come back to me for an answer when we have a transcript of the conversation between Johnson and Lebedev, and an accurate report of Johnson's activity and with whom he engaged on Lebedev's yacht whilst Johnson was Foreign Secretary. Johnson rocking up to Kyiv every five minutes doesn't clear up that particular mess, does it?
    How convenient to throw enough caveats in that your demands make your claim unfalsifiable. The trips point is deliberately misleading. Boris, for all his flaws, has been unwavering and leading in the military and financial support provided to Kyiv.
    Oh perlease. If it were anyone else I might give them the benefit of the doubt. Johnson's comprehensive self serving backstory allows me to treat his Ukrainian altruism, not so much with a pinch of salt, but with the entire county of Cheshire.
    Self-serving or otherwise, the UK has been a steadfast ally of Ukraine while Germany equivocates with one eye on future Russian deals. Completely the opposite to what Remainers predicted and no hint of contrition or self-reflection.
    I had not realised there was a “Remainer” position on Ukraine. Or is this just another Brexiter delusion?
    Let’s ask the archetypal Brexiteer, Farage.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_sy-yFAo_4
    Only because Remainers and the BBC pushed him so much. The Leave campaign did everything they could to marginalize him. He doesn't represent mainstream Leavers.
    F*** me! He was their poster boy!
    Remember the first rule of Brexit: everything that happens is the fault of Remainers & no responsibility whatsoever can attach to those who campaigned or voted for Brexit.
    Nope. In this case Mexicanpete is wrong. The official Leave campaign explicitly refused to include Farage in their campaign. Hence the reason Aaron Banks tried a legal challenge to get Leave.EU made into the official campaign as he believed it was a stitch up to ensure Remain won.

    In the words of Dominic Cummings, Farage was a "vain shallow egomaniac" and an "irrelevant pundit, happily and safely ignored".
    You are at least being a little disingenuous to me. Yes Farage was persona non grata in Team Johnson-Cummings, but he remained a high profile figure in the greater Leave campaign.
    So he was persona non grata with the official campaign. How then can they be held responsible for him? Tony Blair at least had the self awareness to know that if he campaigned for Remain it would drive more people to the Leave campaign. And yet I could claim he was the 'poster boy' for Remain as he made his views clear and would be as equally wrong as you are.
    Again, I must have missed the bit where Tony Blair set up the “EU Party”, spent years on Question Time promoting further integration, and then led a major, albeit “unofficial”, pro-EU campaign during the referendum.

    We know you don’t like Farage, and have profound disagreements with him, but he is your ideological comrade-in-arms nonetheless.
    The Pro-EU party was Labour. Blair didn't have to appear on question time to promote his cause. He was the PM.

    Farage was as much my ideological comrade in arms as Stalin was to Kier Starmer. Both are/would be ludicrous claims.

    You are in sad denial about the central role Farage, a man quite literally known as “Mr Brexit”.

    You can’t just distance yourself from him, Richard. He was instrumental in bringing your pet project to life.

  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,939
    I realise I'm a bit late with this observation, but I've just started watching the latest series of The Crown (don't judge me, I'm knitting) and the overwhelming impression I get from it is how it humanises the Royals, and everyone else that it features. I know when it was first released there was a lot of controversy about large parts of it being made up, but as a piece of pro-monarchy fluff I think it works better with the controversy as cover, as otherwise it would be merely a transparent series of quasi-hagiographies.

    I think people have said that Peter Morgan is a Republican? Well, with enemies like him the institution is safe for a while yet.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,972

    Lockdown 'sex party' at Newcastle Cathedral under investigation by the Vatican

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/22/lockdown-sex-party-newcastle-cathedral-investigation-vatican/

    Maybe it would be best if everyone just forgot about things like this.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,939
    Andy_JS said:

    Lockdown 'sex party' at Newcastle Cathedral under investigation by the Vatican

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/22/lockdown-sex-party-newcastle-cathedral-investigation-vatican/

    Maybe it would be best if everyone just forgot about things like this.
    Be a bit disappointing if the event wasn't memorable for those involved.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    The term “culture war” once had meaning: the weaponisation of socio-cultural issues to foment division. But, like the words bigoted and phobic, it is being rendered impotent by how often it is now used to mean “opinion I disagree with”.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jan/21/stoking-a-culture-war-no-nicola-sturgeon-this-is-about-balancing-conflicting-rights
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    Phil said:

    WillG said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    I seem to remember when people argued Germany was the leader of the free world and Britain would be captured by Russian money. Any rethinking going on?

    https://twitter.com/macaesbruno/status/1617213292568510466

    Come back to me for an answer when we have a transcript of the conversation between Johnson and Lebedev, and an accurate report of Johnson's activity and with whom he engaged on Lebedev's yacht whilst Johnson was Foreign Secretary. Johnson rocking up to Kyiv every five minutes doesn't clear up that particular mess, does it?
    How convenient to throw enough caveats in that your demands make your claim unfalsifiable. The trips point is deliberately misleading. Boris, for all his flaws, has been unwavering and leading in the military and financial support provided to Kyiv.
    Oh perlease. If it were anyone else I might give them the benefit of the doubt. Johnson's comprehensive self serving backstory allows me to treat his Ukrainian altruism, not so much with a pinch of salt, but with the entire county of Cheshire.
    Self-serving or otherwise, the UK has been a steadfast ally of Ukraine while Germany equivocates with one eye on future Russian deals. Completely the opposite to what Remainers predicted and no hint of contrition or self-reflection.
    I had not realised there was a “Remainer” position on Ukraine. Or is this just another Brexiter delusion?
    Let’s ask the archetypal Brexiteer, Farage.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_sy-yFAo_4
    Only because Remainers and the BBC pushed him so much. The Leave campaign did everything they could to marginalize him. He doesn't represent mainstream Leavers.
    F*** me! He was their poster boy!
    Remember the first rule of Brexit: everything that happens is the fault of Remainers & no responsibility whatsoever can attach to those who campaigned or voted for Brexit.
    Nope. In this case Mexicanpete is wrong. The official Leave campaign explicitly refused to include Farage in their campaign. Hence the reason Aaron Banks tried a legal challenge to get Leave.EU made into the official campaign as he believed it was a stitch up to ensure Remain won.

    In the words of Dominic Cummings, Farage was a "vain shallow egomaniac" and an "irrelevant pundit, happily and safely ignored".
    You are at least being a little disingenuous to me. Yes Farage was persona non grata in Team Johnson-Cummings, but he remained a high profile figure in the greater Leave campaign.
    So he was persona non grata with the official campaign. How then can they be held responsible for him? Tony Blair at least had the self awareness to know that if he campaigned for Remain it would drive more people to the Leave campaign. And yet I could claim he was the 'poster boy' for Remain as he made his views clear and would be as equally wrong as you are.
    Again, I must have missed the bit where Tony Blair set up the “EU Party”, spent years on Question Time promoting further integration, and then led a major, albeit “unofficial”, pro-EU campaign during the referendum.

    We know you don’t like Farage, and have profound disagreements with him, but he is your ideological comrade-in-arms nonetheless.
    The Pro-EU party was Labour. Blair didn't have to appear on question time to promote his cause. He was the PM.

    Farage was as much my ideological comrade in arms as Stalin was to Kier Starmer. Both are/would be ludicrous claims.

    You are in sad denial about the central role Farage, a man quite literally known as “Mr Brexit”.

    You can’t just distance yourself from him, Richard. He was instrumental in bringing your pet project to life.

    Must be why the Remain campaign tried to promote him as much as possible and the Leave campaign tried to marginalize him as much as possible. Because he was so helpful to the Leave cause.

    Also, Brexit is not a project. It is removing oneself from a project. The EU is the project. And if you look at living standards and unemployment and poverty rates, it is doing a lot worse than the UK.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    Phil said:

    WillG said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    I seem to remember when people argued Germany was the leader of the free world and Britain would be captured by Russian money. Any rethinking going on?

    https://twitter.com/macaesbruno/status/1617213292568510466

    Come back to me for an answer when we have a transcript of the conversation between Johnson and Lebedev, and an accurate report of Johnson's activity and with whom he engaged on Lebedev's yacht whilst Johnson was Foreign Secretary. Johnson rocking up to Kyiv every five minutes doesn't clear up that particular mess, does it?
    How convenient to throw enough caveats in that your demands make your claim unfalsifiable. The trips point is deliberately misleading. Boris, for all his flaws, has been unwavering and leading in the military and financial support provided to Kyiv.
    Oh perlease. If it were anyone else I might give them the benefit of the doubt. Johnson's comprehensive self serving backstory allows me to treat his Ukrainian altruism, not so much with a pinch of salt, but with the entire county of Cheshire.
    Self-serving or otherwise, the UK has been a steadfast ally of Ukraine while Germany equivocates with one eye on future Russian deals. Completely the opposite to what Remainers predicted and no hint of contrition or self-reflection.
    I had not realised there was a “Remainer” position on Ukraine. Or is this just another Brexiter delusion?
    Let’s ask the archetypal Brexiteer, Farage.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_sy-yFAo_4
    Only because Remainers and the BBC pushed him so much. The Leave campaign did everything they could to marginalize him. He doesn't represent mainstream Leavers.
    F*** me! He was their poster boy!
    Remember the first rule of Brexit: everything that happens is the fault of Remainers & no responsibility whatsoever can attach to those who campaigned or voted for Brexit.
    Nope. In this case Mexicanpete is wrong. The official Leave campaign explicitly refused to include Farage in their campaign. Hence the reason Aaron Banks tried a legal challenge to get Leave.EU made into the official campaign as he believed it was a stitch up to ensure Remain won.

    In the words of Dominic Cummings, Farage was a "vain shallow egomaniac" and an "irrelevant pundit, happily and safely ignored".
    You are at least being a little disingenuous to me. Yes Farage was persona non grata in Team Johnson-Cummings, but he remained a high profile figure in the greater Leave campaign.
    So he was persona non grata with the official campaign. How then can they be held responsible for him? Tony Blair at least had the self awareness to know that if he campaigned for Remain it would drive more people to the Leave campaign. And yet I could claim he was the 'poster boy' for Remain as he made his views clear and would be as equally wrong as you are.
    Again, I must have missed the bit where Tony Blair set up the “EU Party”, spent years on Question Time promoting further integration, and then led a major, albeit “unofficial”, pro-EU campaign during the referendum.

    We know you don’t like Farage, and have profound disagreements with him, but he is your ideological comrade-in-arms nonetheless.
    The EU party was called "New Labour." Not only did he campaign relentlessly for the UK to be more pro-EU. He gave away billions of UK cash to Brussels to try to do it.
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