Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Options

Starmer remains solid 71% favourite to be PM after the election – politicalbetting.com

24

Comments

  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,577
    Yay! Another bung for the oldies. What could possibly go wrong?

    The Times has also been told that the Treasury is discussing giving people tax breaks to go back to work

    Discussion is at an early stage, but there's talk around allowances and even exempting over 50s from income tax


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1613483026721144837
  • Options
    ‘We could say “get the boats done” and run a “stop the boats” election,’ argues one government adviser.

    Why some Tories say the next election should be fought on a pledge to pull out of Strasbourg’s jurisdiction

    https://twitter.com/katyballs/status/1613497600115703808
  • Options

    Yay! Another bung for the oldies. What could possibly go wrong?

    The Times has also been told that the Treasury is discussing giving people tax breaks to go back to work

    Discussion is at an early stage, but there's talk around allowances and even exempting over 50s from income tax


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1613483026721144837

    Lol they've stolen that directly from Labour
  • Options
    TOPPING said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    To put the NHS chaos in context

    I am in Bangkok. Today I needed a prescription. I emailed a doctor this morning, they gave me a video consult at noon, they filled the prescription this afternoon and the pills have been biked to my hotel just now. Total cost: £60.

    My two most recent NHS interactions (both last three months) were comparable, to be fair:
    1. I called GP, for me, for something I knew enough about that it could be serious but if I had it I would probably be already dead or at least very obviously ill, which I was not (so, low likelihood, high impact). Called 0800, phone back from GP 0840 with quite detailed discussion, in person GP appointment that afternoon at 1400, in hospital 1700, CT scan 2330. At that point (CT scan showed no major problem) things slowed down and I wasn't out until 2100 following day after some other investigations.
    2. Called GP for my daughter 0800, call back at 0830 with in person appointment 0930. Back home with antibiotics by 1030.

    There are, very clearly, many places where primary care sucks, but it's not universal. Here we also have an excellent minor injuries unit, which we have used a number of times and generally get seen, turning up without appointment, within 30 minutes. These (GP and minor injuries unit) are located in a fairly deprived town, although serving some affluent areas too.
    Interesting that it took 14-odd waking hours to get you out of hospital. Had it been on a Friday you'd have still been there on the Monday.
    This (waiting hours and occasionally days to be discharged from hospital) is far too common, whether the delay is caused by finding a doctor free to complete the paperwork, or getting drugs out of the hospital pharmacy. And of course, this adds to bed-blocking and before the Health Secretary knows it, there is half the county ambulance service queueing for hours in the hospital car park because A&E is full.
  • Options
    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,398
    TOPPING said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    To put the NHS chaos in context

    I am in Bangkok. Today I needed a prescription. I emailed a doctor this morning, they gave me a video consult at noon, they filled the prescription this afternoon and the pills have been biked to my hotel just now. Total cost: £60.

    My two most recent NHS interactions (both last three months) were comparable, to be fair:
    1. I called GP, for me, for something I knew enough about that it could be serious but if I had it I would probably be already dead or at least very obviously ill, which I was not (so, low likelihood, high impact). Called 0800, phone back from GP 0840 with quite detailed discussion, in person GP appointment that afternoon at 1400, in hospital 1700, CT scan 2330. At that point (CT scan showed no major problem) things slowed down and I wasn't out until 2100 following day after some other investigations.
    2. Called GP for my daughter 0800, call back at 0830 with in person appointment 0930. Back home with antibiotics by 1030.

    There are, very clearly, many places where primary care sucks, but it's not universal. Here we also have an excellent minor injuries unit, which we have used a number of times and generally get seen, turning up without appointment, within 30 minutes. These (GP and minor injuries unit) are located in a fairly deprived town, although serving some affluent areas too.
    Interesting that it took 14-odd waking hours to get you out of hospital. Had it been on a Friday you'd have still been there on the Monday.
    Indeed. The secondary care part wasn't great, to be fair - I spent some hours sat in A&E because the urgent care unit I'd been booked into turned out to be full (also happened to others booked into that unit, some kind of snafu). Then lots of waiting around for things, taking up space in the urgent care unit, probably meaning other people got bounced to A&E because I was in the way. Primary care experience was, however, faultless.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,104

    Yay! Another bung for the oldies. What could possibly go wrong?

    The Times has also been told that the Treasury is discussing giving people tax breaks to go back to work

    Discussion is at an early stage, but there's talk around allowances and even exempting over 50s from income tax


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1613483026721144837

    Exempting over 50s from income tax?

    That's hilarious.
  • Options
    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,398

    Selebian said:

    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    Where did you go to uni HYUFD ?

    He answered that yesterday, why are you asking again out of the blue, completely unrelated to any ongoing discussion? Don't be a bully.
    Why are you bullying Horse again? He was talking to you anyway.
    Pointing out someone is being a bully is not bullying, don't be silly.
    Can I confess that I hope you get banned some day? But only so you can come back as Wedge or 9-Iron :kissing_heart:
    Not Walker or Cyclist?
    Hmm, hadn't thought of that. Passenger?
  • Options

    Leon said:
    Tom Jones with EMF was the peak?
    Surely this was when the world peaked:-

    Sex claim at No 10 lockdown party

    Some of Boris Johnson’s aides are believed to have had sex at 10 Downing Street during a party that took place during lockdown on the eve of the Duke of Edinburgh’s funeral.

    Two couples were seen by numerous witnesses becoming intimate with each other at the gathering of aides and officials, which continued past 4am. One pair were seen “feeling each other up” in a kitchen before retiring to a dark room from which they later emerged “flustered”. The other pair were seen going into an office “with the lights off”.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-partygate-joked-about-lack-of-social-distancing-at-downing-street-lockdown-event-qh5fcw9pz (£££)

    Flustered. That's a good word. Hope it doesn't get cancelled.
    I think 'feeling each other up' is some of the worst writing I've seen since 'The Ice Twins'.
    I love parties like get out of hand like that!

    Is this why Allegro Stratton looked just so bashful denying the lockdown party to camera?

    At least some people in the country thought lockdown and social distancing was mad and not worth complying with, because they come out of this the winners don’t they? Take the different students for example. Those who partied through lockdown like Tories were are now good and healthy and probably in a relationship - those who followed the government message now alone and on citalopram.

    Distance needs to pass before history books can sum the big picture up correctly, but it’s getting there? 1) ring fence the old and vulnerable, everyone else get on with parties and sex 2) don’t let NHS backlog get in such a state that the backlog wipes out as many as those save by lockdowns
    The government published its big picture review of the pandemic last month. There's a pdf at the bottom.
    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/technical-report-on-the-covid-19-pandemic-in-the-uk
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943

    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg sets out to Tom Harwood what Conservatives must do to win over voters under 45

    https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1613479438058131463?s=20&t=pwEQ1cNXg_M83EtleNHyrg

    I'm under 45, Jacob is talking nonsense.

    What we need is to stop giving old people and pensioners a triple lock, we need house prices to come down massively and we need to massively increase housing supply.

    Until then, they're done
    To be fair Jacob did mention reforming planning to make it easier to build new housing.

    Should also be noted of course the Conservatives won a majority of 80 in 2019 despite losing most under 45s anyway
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    🔴 Sadiq Khan will suggest ideas including rejoining the single market as he urges a "pragmatic debate" on Europe in a break with the Labour Party's national position.

    Read more on our politics live blog ⬇️
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/01/12/rishi-sunak-news-latest-strikes-starmer-labour-nhs-inflation/ https://twitter.com/TelePolitics/status/1613497636165763073/photo/1

    Great news. For Rishi Sunak.

    Starmer has gone out of his way to avoid the EU debate at the next election. Khan risks undoing most of that good work.
    Maybe not. For certain Labour govern after next election, at which point the pressure from Remainia, that’s about 70% of voters now, will really be on the Labour government for movement. Once they are in power this topic will quickly get hot for Labour to change the inherited Boris deal. Something will have to happen. So An open debate on what to do is helpful rather than not helpful. And even if everyone don’t get what they want from Labours changes to the Brexit they inherit, no free movement for example, they will be assuaged by the compromise I am sure.

    For example, if they moved to a frictionless trade arrangement without free movement, the whole country and so much of our politics will be so satisfied with Starmer’s Labour Brexit, that it will remain the deal for twenty years or more with little pressure to rejoin.

    That’s exactly how it’s going to play out isn’t it?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    My mother has O levels, my father A levels. Neither went to university unlike me (albeit my father's father went to LSE nightschool and got a degree)

    Where did you go to uni HYUFD?
    Warwick for undergrad, Aberystwyth for postgrad
    Sorry HYUFD, missed your answer yesterday.

    My best friend went to Warwick, small world! What did you study there?
    History
  • Options

    Leon said:
    Tom Jones with EMF was the peak?
    Surely this was when the world peaked:-

    Sex claim at No 10 lockdown party

    Some of Boris Johnson’s aides are believed to have had sex at 10 Downing Street during a party that took place during lockdown on the eve of the Duke of Edinburgh’s funeral.

    Two couples were seen by numerous witnesses becoming intimate with each other at the gathering of aides and officials, which continued past 4am. One pair were seen “feeling each other up” in a kitchen before retiring to a dark room from which they later emerged “flustered”. The other pair were seen going into an office “with the lights off”.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-partygate-joked-about-lack-of-social-distancing-at-downing-street-lockdown-event-qh5fcw9pz (£££)

    Flustered. That's a good word. Hope it doesn't get cancelled.
    The fact that these new party revelations are being deployed seems to indicate that there is growing disquiet in Camp Sunak.
    Growing disquiet in Camp Anyone-But-Boris, perhaps, following news of moves to reinstate Big Dog.
    Hopefully for them they have more than office rumpy pumpy to impede his Royal progress.

    By the way, I don't support Borises return, just think he'd be marginally better than the current Government. As would a horde of visigoths or a plague of newts.
    Liked your post, Lucky, but have to point out that I have newts in my garden pond and they are really quite likeable.

    (You are not being Newtist, are you?)
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,130
    Selebian said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    My mother has O levels, my father A levels. Neither went to university unlike me (albeit my father's father went to LSE nightschool and got a degree)

    Where did you go to uni HYUFD?
    Warwick for undergrad, Aberystwyth for postgrad
    Sorry HYUFD, missed your answer yesterday.

    My best friend went to Warwick, small world! What did you study there?
    Me too. All the best people* get sent to Coventry.

    *And HYUFD. And me.
    And me, man and boy (degree and PhD).
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,249
    Selebian said:

    TOPPING said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    To put the NHS chaos in context

    I am in Bangkok. Today I needed a prescription. I emailed a doctor this morning, they gave me a video consult at noon, they filled the prescription this afternoon and the pills have been biked to my hotel just now. Total cost: £60.

    My two most recent NHS interactions (both last three months) were comparable, to be fair:
    1. I called GP, for me, for something I knew enough about that it could be serious but if I had it I would probably be already dead or at least very obviously ill, which I was not (so, low likelihood, high impact). Called 0800, phone back from GP 0840 with quite detailed discussion, in person GP appointment that afternoon at 1400, in hospital 1700, CT scan 2330. At that point (CT scan showed no major problem) things slowed down and I wasn't out until 2100 following day after some other investigations.
    2. Called GP for my daughter 0800, call back at 0830 with in person appointment 0930. Back home with antibiotics by 1030.

    There are, very clearly, many places where primary care sucks, but it's not universal. Here we also have an excellent minor injuries unit, which we have used a number of times and generally get seen, turning up without appointment, within 30 minutes. These (GP and minor injuries unit) are located in a fairly deprived town, although serving some affluent areas too.
    Interesting that it took 14-odd waking hours to get you out of hospital. Had it been on a Friday you'd have still been there on the Monday.
    Indeed. The secondary care part wasn't great, to be fair - I spent some hours sat in A&E because the urgent care unit I'd been booked into turned out to be full (also happened to others booked into that unit, some kind of snafu). Then lots of waiting around for things, taking up space in the urgent care unit, probably meaning other people got bounced to A&E because I was in the way. Primary care experience was, however, faultless.
    Is the NHS all over. Wheeled (or come) in to A&E for urgent care and everything works as it should for the most part (infection aside and it is a huge aside) but thereafter, once it gets complicated or the doctors can't see the bone sticking out of your leg or it is a non-standard and perhaps slightly esoteric issue then they are very often, or at least far too often hopeless.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,577
    I’m very pleased to see my paper on the appropriate currency regime for an independent Scotland has now been published in the UK’s leading peer reviewed macroeconomic journal. I’m unaware of any other peer reviewed paper on this topic.

    https://twitter.com/rmacdonald7/status/1613309695384604674

  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415

    Leon said:
    Tom Jones with EMF was the peak?
    Surely this was when the world peaked:-

    Sex claim at No 10 lockdown party

    Some of Boris Johnson’s aides are believed to have had sex at 10 Downing Street during a party that took place during lockdown on the eve of the Duke of Edinburgh’s funeral.

    Two couples were seen by numerous witnesses becoming intimate with each other at the gathering of aides and officials, which continued past 4am. One pair were seen “feeling each other up” in a kitchen before retiring to a dark room from which they later emerged “flustered”. The other pair were seen going into an office “with the lights off”.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-partygate-joked-about-lack-of-social-distancing-at-downing-street-lockdown-event-qh5fcw9pz (£££)

    Flustered. That's a good word. Hope it doesn't get cancelled.
    I think 'feeling each other up' is some of the worst writing I've seen since 'The Ice Twins'.
    I love parties like get out of hand like that!

    Is this why Allegro Stratton looked just so bashful denying the lockdown party to camera?

    At least some people in the country thought lockdown and social distancing was mad and not worth complying with, because they come out of this the winners don’t they? Take the different students for example. Those who partied through lockdown like Tories were are now good and healthy and probably in a relationship - those who followed the government message now alone and on citalopram.

    Distance needs to pass before history books can sum the big picture up correctly, but it’s getting there? 1) ring fence the old and vulnerable, everyone else get on with parties and sex 2) don’t let NHS backlog get in such a state that the backlog wipes out as many as those save by lockdowns
    The government published its big picture review of the pandemic last month. There's a pdf at the bottom.
    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/technical-report-on-the-covid-19-pandemic-in-the-uk
    It’s true the NHS messed up by dropping the ball and allowing waiting lists to rise so much during the covid fight. The NHS let the government down there, waiting lists should not have claimed so high during the covid fight as to now be unnecessarily killing fifty thousand people a year. The Tories are right to argue that point.
  • Options
    DriverDriver Posts: 4,522
    edited January 2023

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    🔴 Sadiq Khan will suggest ideas including rejoining the single market as he urges a "pragmatic debate" on Europe in a break with the Labour Party's national position.

    Read more on our politics live blog ⬇️
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/01/12/rishi-sunak-news-latest-strikes-starmer-labour-nhs-inflation/ https://twitter.com/TelePolitics/status/1613497636165763073/photo/1

    Great news. For Rishi Sunak.

    Starmer has gone out of his way to avoid the EU debate at the next election. Khan risks undoing most of that good work.
    Maybe not. For certain Labour govern after next election, at which point the pressure from Remainia, that’s about 70% of voters now, will really be on the Labour government for movement. Once they are in power this topic will quickly get hot for Labour to change the inherited Boris deal. Something will have to happen. So An open debate on what to do is helpful rather than not helpful. And even if everyone don’t get what they want from Labours changes to the Brexit they inherit, no free movement for example, they will be assuaged by the compromise I am sure.

    For example, if they moved to a frictionless trade arrangement without free movement, the whole country and so much of our politics will be so satisfied with Starmer’s Labour Brexit, that it will remain the deal for twenty years or more with little pressure to rejoin.

    That’s exactly how it’s going to play out isn’t it?
    How do they get the EU to concede frictionless trade without free movement? If that was available, wouldn't it have happened by now?
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    Driver said:

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    🔴 Sadiq Khan will suggest ideas including rejoining the single market as he urges a "pragmatic debate" on Europe in a break with the Labour Party's national position.

    Read more on our politics live blog ⬇️
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/01/12/rishi-sunak-news-latest-strikes-starmer-labour-nhs-inflation/ https://twitter.com/TelePolitics/status/1613497636165763073/photo/1

    Great news. For Rishi Sunak.

    Starmer has gone out of his way to avoid the EU debate at the next election. Khan risks undoing most of that good work.
    Maybe not. For certain Labour govern after next election, at which point the pressure from Remainia, that’s about 70% of voters now, will really be on the Labour government for movement. Once they are in power this topic will quickly get hot for Labour to change the inherited Boris deal. Something will have to happen. So An open debate on what to do is helpful rather than not helpful. And even if everyone don’t get what they want from Labours changes to the Brexit they inherit, no free movement for example, they will be assuaged by the compromise I am sure.

    For example, if they moved to a frictionless trade arrangement without free movement, the whole country and so much of our politics will be so satisfied with Starmer’s Labour Brexit, that it will remain the deal for twenty years or more with little pressure to rejoin.

    That’s exactly how it’s going to play out isn’t it?
    How do they get the EU to concede frictionless trade without free movement? If that was available, wouldn't it have happened by now?
    LOL 🤣
  • Options
    nico679nico679 Posts: 4,734

    ‘We could say “get the boats done” and run a “stop the boats” election,’ argues one government adviser.

    Why some Tories say the next election should be fought on a pledge to pull out of Strasbourg’s jurisdiction

    https://twitter.com/katyballs/status/1613497600115703808

    They really are desperate . So pulling out of the ECHR and removing rights from UK nationals is now some vote winner all under the guise of stopping the boats .
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,130

    Leon said:
    Tom Jones with EMF was the peak?
    Surely this was when the world peaked:-

    Sex claim at No 10 lockdown party

    Some of Boris Johnson’s aides are believed to have had sex at 10 Downing Street during a party that took place during lockdown on the eve of the Duke of Edinburgh’s funeral.

    Two couples were seen by numerous witnesses becoming intimate with each other at the gathering of aides and officials, which continued past 4am. One pair were seen “feeling each other up” in a kitchen before retiring to a dark room from which they later emerged “flustered”. The other pair were seen going into an office “with the lights off”.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-partygate-joked-about-lack-of-social-distancing-at-downing-street-lockdown-event-qh5fcw9pz (£££)

    Flustered. That's a good word. Hope it doesn't get cancelled.
    I think 'feeling each other up' is some of the worst writing I've seen since 'The Ice Twins'.
    I love parties like get out of hand like that!

    Is this why Allegro Stratton looked just so bashful denying the lockdown party to camera?

    At least some people in the country thought lockdown and social distancing was mad and not worth complying with, because they come out of this the winners don’t they? Take the different students for example. Those who partied through lockdown like Tories were are now good and healthy and probably in a relationship - those who followed the government message now alone and on citalopram.

    Distance needs to pass before history books can sum the big picture up correctly, but it’s getting there? 1) ring fence the old and vulnerable, everyone else get on with parties and sex 2) don’t let NHS backlog get in such a state that the backlog wipes out as many as those save by lockdowns
    1) Is nonsense though isn't it? Firstly who is vulnerable? I was asked to shield (on the day shielding officially ended) because of leukemia 8 years before (remission for 7 years). I was 48 at the time. Who shields? It would be millions and millions stopping their lives so that the young can be out and about as normal. And besides - the inhumanity of shielding. There are still people who have not left the house for three years. The issue with Covid is that you don't know if you are vulnerable. Lots of people under 50 died, many who considered themselves healthy. They were just unlucky.

    So no, shield the vulnerable is nonsense.
  • Options
    nico679 said:

    ‘We could say “get the boats done” and run a “stop the boats” election,’ argues one government adviser.

    Why some Tories say the next election should be fought on a pledge to pull out of Strasbourg’s jurisdiction

    https://twitter.com/katyballs/status/1613497600115703808

    They really are desperate . So pulling out of the ECHR and removing rights from UK nationals is now some vote winner all under the guise of stopping the boats .
    Nico! Welcome back :)
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799

    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg sets out to Tom Harwood what Conservatives must do to win over voters under 45

    https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1613479438058131463?s=20&t=pwEQ1cNXg_M83EtleNHyrg

    I'm under 45, Jacob is talking nonsense.

    What we need is to stop giving old people and pensioners a triple lock, we need house prices to come down massively and we need to massively increase housing supply.

    Until then, they're done
    About 2/3 of the electorate are home owners. That's a lot of people to get pissed off if house prices come down massively.
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    My mother has O levels, my father A levels. Neither went to university unlike me (albeit my father's father went to LSE nightschool and got a degree)

    Where did you go to uni HYUFD?
    Warwick for undergrad, Aberystwyth for postgrad
    Sorry HYUFD, missed your answer yesterday.

    My best friend went to Warwick, small world! What did you study there?
    History
    You're a learned individual that's for sure! Smart cookie
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,378

    Yay! Another bung for the oldies. What could possibly go wrong?

    The Times has also been told that the Treasury is discussing giving people tax breaks to go back to work

    Discussion is at an early stage, but there's talk around allowances and even exempting over 50s from income tax


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1613483026721144837

    Exempting over 50s from income tax?

    That's hilarious.
    The problem it seeks to address isn't, though. Stats suggest that only around 1% of those who've left the workforce for two years (much of this post-pandemic category) return to work in any given year.

    An incentive which changed that significantly might be worth it.

    'Exempting' is probably hedged with a number of things.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,573
    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    30 point Labour lead. By July.

    I wonder what the May locals will do to the polls. It could be wishful thinking on my part, but this is the (possibly only) opportunity for the LDs to get out of the doldrums. It could see a big boost for them if they do particularly well. That would be at the expense of the Conservatives, but also Labour if they are seen as an alternative in the LD/Con areas where Lab will be also doing quite well in the polls currently.
    The voteshares in the May 2019 local elections were Conservatives 28% Labour 28% and LDs 19% when the ward seats up in May were last up.

    So there is little further room for swing to the LDs. Instead while there will be a swing from Conservative to Labour there might also be some swing from LD to Labour too now Starmer is Labour leader not Corbyn

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_United_Kingdom_local_elections
    Point taken and there is quite a margin between the current LD poll rating and the figure you quote and although the LDs usually do a lot better in locals it is quite a bit to make up, but they do outperform their poll rating by quite a bit in locals usually. It is also a particularly good opportunity for the electorate to kick the Tories when you are not electing a Govt so I would expect the Tories to have a particular hard time this time and the LDs should be able to squeeze the bigger Labour vote in the LD/Tory wards so it is possible.

    As I said it could be my wishful thinking as they certainly need it.
  • Options
    Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,288
    edited January 2023
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:
    Tom Jones with EMF was the peak?
    Surely this was when the world peaked:-

    Sex claim at No 10 lockdown party

    Some of Boris Johnson’s aides are believed to have had sex at 10 Downing Street during a party that took place during lockdown on the eve of the Duke of Edinburgh’s funeral.

    Two couples were seen by numerous witnesses becoming intimate with each other at the gathering of aides and officials, which continued past 4am. One pair were seen “feeling each other up” in a kitchen before retiring to a dark room from which they later emerged “flustered”. The other pair were seen going into an office “with the lights off”.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-partygate-joked-about-lack-of-social-distancing-at-downing-street-lockdown-event-qh5fcw9pz (£££)

    Flustered. That's a good word. Hope it doesn't get cancelled.
    The fact that these new party revelations are being deployed seems to indicate that there is growing disquiet in Camp Sunak.
    Growing disquiet in Camp Anyone-But-Boris, perhaps, following news of moves to reinstate Big Dog.
    Hopefully for them they have more than office rumpy pumpy to impede his Royal progress.

    By the way, I don't support Borises return, just think he'd be marginally better than the current Government. As would a horde of visigoths or a plague of newts.
    You'll be voting Labour, then ? 😏
    I would never rule it out. I don't think I would ever vote SNP (sorry SNP supporters) as their main object is to break up the UK and I cannot support that.
    That sounds like a no to the visigoths, too.
    True, but do you not think there's an opening for a Visigoth Party? They would have a fun manifesto for sure.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,249

    Leon said:
    Tom Jones with EMF was the peak?
    Surely this was when the world peaked:-

    Sex claim at No 10 lockdown party

    Some of Boris Johnson’s aides are believed to have had sex at 10 Downing Street during a party that took place during lockdown on the eve of the Duke of Edinburgh’s funeral.

    Two couples were seen by numerous witnesses becoming intimate with each other at the gathering of aides and officials, which continued past 4am. One pair were seen “feeling each other up” in a kitchen before retiring to a dark room from which they later emerged “flustered”. The other pair were seen going into an office “with the lights off”.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-partygate-joked-about-lack-of-social-distancing-at-downing-street-lockdown-event-qh5fcw9pz (£££)

    Flustered. That's a good word. Hope it doesn't get cancelled.
    I think 'feeling each other up' is some of the worst writing I've seen since 'The Ice Twins'.
    I love parties like get out of hand like that!

    Is this why Allegro Stratton looked just so bashful denying the lockdown party to camera?

    At least some people in the country thought lockdown and social distancing was mad and not worth complying with, because they come out of this the winners don’t they? Take the different students for example. Those who partied through lockdown like Tories were are now good and healthy and probably in a relationship - those who followed the government message now alone and on citalopram.

    Distance needs to pass before history books can sum the big picture up correctly, but it’s getting there? 1) ring fence the old and vulnerable, everyone else get on with parties and sex 2) don’t let NHS backlog get in such a state that the backlog wipes out as many as those save by lockdowns
    1) Is nonsense though isn't it? Firstly who is vulnerable? I was asked to shield (on the day shielding officially ended) because of leukemia 8 years before (remission for 7 years). I was 48 at the time. Who shields? It would be millions and millions stopping their lives so that the young can be out and about as normal. And besides - the inhumanity of shielding. There are still people who have not left the house for three years. The issue with Covid is that you don't know if you are vulnerable. Lots of people under 50 died, many who considered themselves healthy. They were just unlucky.

    So no, shield the vulnerable is nonsense.
    I wish you continued remission.

    But your statement makes no sense. If everyone is being locked down then you don't go out. If just you are locked down and the uni students can go party they you don't go out.

    So the only issue is that in one case you don't go out and no one else does; and in the other you don't go out and other people do.

    I see no reason, given that it doesn't affect your own situation, why you would want to deny others who are likely not vulnerable at all or only to a tiny degree the ability to go out.

    I hesitate to say dog in the manger...
  • Options
    DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792

    Leon said:
    Tom Jones with EMF was the peak?
    Surely this was when the world peaked:-

    Sex claim at No 10 lockdown party

    Some of Boris Johnson’s aides are believed to have had sex at 10 Downing Street during a party that took place during lockdown on the eve of the Duke of Edinburgh’s funeral.

    Two couples were seen by numerous witnesses becoming intimate with each other at the gathering of aides and officials, which continued past 4am. One pair were seen “feeling each other up” in a kitchen before retiring to a dark room from which they later emerged “flustered”. The other pair were seen going into an office “with the lights off”.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-partygate-joked-about-lack-of-social-distancing-at-downing-street-lockdown-event-qh5fcw9pz (£££)

    Flustered. That's a good word. Hope it doesn't get cancelled.
    I think 'feeling each other up' is some of the worst writing I've seen since 'The Ice Twins'.
    I love parties like get out of hand like that!

    Is this why Allegro Stratton looked just so bashful denying the lockdown party to camera?

    At least some people in the country thought lockdown and social distancing was mad and not worth complying with, because they come out of this the winners don’t they? Take the different students for example. Those who partied through lockdown like Tories were are now good and healthy and probably in a relationship - those who followed the government message now alone and on citalopram.

    Distance needs to pass before history books can sum the big picture up correctly, but it’s getting there? 1) ring fence the old and vulnerable, everyone else get on with parties and sex 2) don’t let NHS backlog get in such a state that the backlog wipes out as many as those save by lockdowns
    Plotting death rates "with SARSCoV2" (admittedly a stupid statistic but widely used) against vaccination rates, country by country and region by region, can be done right now, by any reasonably numerate person using figures from say Worldometers and the NYT. Vaccination (≥ 1 dose) was carried out to different extents in different countries, including in countries that have fairly similar social conditions, e.g. 78% in Germany, 81% in France, 81% in Britain, 84% in Italy. Does more of it correspond to lower death rates "with" the 2019 SARS variant per 1m population or not? Germany 1946, France 2488, Britain 2935, Italy 3077.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,242

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg sets out to Tom Harwood what Conservatives must do to win over voters under 45

    https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1613479438058131463?s=20&t=pwEQ1cNXg_M83EtleNHyrg

    I'm under 45, Jacob is talking nonsense.

    What we need is to stop giving old people and pensioners a triple lock, we need house prices to come down massively and we need to massively increase housing supply.

    Until then, they're done
    The main reason house prices are so high is because we have high levels of migration.
    The main reason house prices so high was printing money instead of building houses.
    Combined with -

    - Housing costs excluded from inflation targets
    - Not building bedrooms* to match population increase
    - Collapse in cost of many other consume goods and services (globalisation).

    So you had more money, other things got cheaper, and the one thing that was getting more expensive wasn't the wrong kind of inflation. And was getting (relatively) scarcer.

    *This is a rough measure for the number of properties required, but works out about right.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,242

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:
    Tom Jones with EMF was the peak?
    Surely this was when the world peaked:-

    Sex claim at No 10 lockdown party

    Some of Boris Johnson’s aides are believed to have had sex at 10 Downing Street during a party that took place during lockdown on the eve of the Duke of Edinburgh’s funeral.

    Two couples were seen by numerous witnesses becoming intimate with each other at the gathering of aides and officials, which continued past 4am. One pair were seen “feeling each other up” in a kitchen before retiring to a dark room from which they later emerged “flustered”. The other pair were seen going into an office “with the lights off”.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-partygate-joked-about-lack-of-social-distancing-at-downing-street-lockdown-event-qh5fcw9pz (£££)

    Flustered. That's a good word. Hope it doesn't get cancelled.
    The fact that these new party revelations are being deployed seems to indicate that there is growing disquiet in Camp Sunak.
    Growing disquiet in Camp Anyone-But-Boris, perhaps, following news of moves to reinstate Big Dog.
    Hopefully for them they have more than office rumpy pumpy to impede his Royal progress.

    By the way, I don't support Borises return, just think he'd be marginally better than the current Government. As would a horde of visigoths or a plague of newts.
    You'll be voting Labour, then ? 😏
    I would never rule it out. I don't think I would ever vote SNP (sorry SNP supporters) as their main object is to break up the UK and I cannot support that.
    That sounds like a no to the visigoths, too.
    True, but do you not think there's an opening for a Visigoth Party? They would have a fun manifesto for sure.
    What about the Ostrogoths? Gepids?
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    edited January 2023

    Leon said:
    Tom Jones with EMF was the peak?
    Surely this was when the world peaked:-

    Sex claim at No 10 lockdown party

    Some of Boris Johnson’s aides are believed to have had sex at 10 Downing Street during a party that took place during lockdown on the eve of the Duke of Edinburgh’s funeral.

    Two couples were seen by numerous witnesses becoming intimate with each other at the gathering of aides and officials, which continued past 4am. One pair were seen “feeling each other up” in a kitchen before retiring to a dark room from which they later emerged “flustered”. The other pair were seen going into an office “with the lights off”.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-partygate-joked-about-lack-of-social-distancing-at-downing-street-lockdown-event-qh5fcw9pz (£££)

    Flustered. That's a good word. Hope it doesn't get cancelled.
    I think 'feeling each other up' is some of the worst writing I've seen since 'The Ice Twins'.
    I love parties like get out of hand like that!

    Is this why Allegro Stratton looked just so bashful denying the lockdown party to camera?

    At least some people in the country thought lockdown and social distancing was mad and not worth complying with, because they come out of this the winners don’t they? Take the different students for example. Those who partied through lockdown like Tories were are now good and healthy and probably in a relationship - those who followed the government message now alone and on citalopram.

    Distance needs to pass before history books can sum the big picture up correctly, but it’s getting there? 1) ring fence the old and vulnerable, everyone else get on with parties and sex 2) don’t let NHS backlog get in such a state that the backlog wipes out as many as those save by lockdowns
    1) Is nonsense though isn't it? Firstly who is vulnerable? I was asked to shield (on the day shielding officially ended) because of leukemia 8 years before (remission for 7 years). I was 48 at the time. Who shields? It would be millions and millions stopping their lives so that the young can be out and about as normal. And besides - the inhumanity of shielding. There are still people who have not left the house for three years. The issue with Covid is that you don't know if you are vulnerable. Lots of people under 50 died, many who considered themselves healthy. They were just unlucky.

    So no, shield the vulnerable is nonsense.
    Don’t be so daft. What exactly are you saying is the working alternative that actually happened.

    what you are calling the alternative to my nonsense was just pretend wasn’t it? Some, mostly the old and vulnerable, did lockdown after lockdown, everyone else didn’t, we now know is the historical truth of what actually happened don’t we? Beauty spots and beaches packed with people, gyms refusing to close, people driving all round the country, people seeing lovers, parties. The only thing that shouldn’t have stopped, health check ups, being beside bedside of dying loved ones and funerals were the things that did!

    Which is why sanctimoniously picking on Boris as the only law stretcher in the land is wrong isn’t it?



    You are trying to rewrite history so actual history gets lost.
  • Options
    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    30 point Labour lead. By July.

    I wonder what the May locals will do to the polls. It could be wishful thinking on my part, but this is the (possibly only) opportunity for the LDs to get out of the doldrums. It could see a big boost for them if they do particularly well. That would be at the expense of the Conservatives, but also Labour if they are seen as an alternative in the LD/Con areas where Lab will be also doing quite well in the polls currently.
    The voteshares in the May 2019 local elections were Conservatives 28% Labour 28% and LDs 19% when the ward seats up in May were last up.

    So there is little further room for swing to the LDs. Instead while there will be a swing from Conservative to Labour there might also be some swing from LD to Labour too now Starmer is Labour leader not Corbyn

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_United_Kingdom_local_elections
    Point taken and there is quite a margin between the current LD poll rating and the figure you quote and although the LDs usually do a lot better in locals it is quite a bit to make up, but they do outperform their poll rating by quite a bit in locals usually. It is also a particularly good opportunity for the electorate to kick the Tories when you are not electing a Govt so I would expect the Tories to have a particular hard time this time and the LDs should be able to squeeze the bigger Labour vote in the LD/Tory wards so it is possible.

    As I said it could be my wishful thinking as they certainly need it.
    There are very few LD-LAB marginals
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,104
    Nigelb said:

    Yay! Another bung for the oldies. What could possibly go wrong?

    The Times has also been told that the Treasury is discussing giving people tax breaks to go back to work

    Discussion is at an early stage, but there's talk around allowances and even exempting over 50s from income tax


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1613483026721144837

    Exempting over 50s from income tax?

    That's hilarious.
    The problem it seeks to address isn't, though. Stats suggest that only around 1% of those who've left the workforce for two years (much of this post-pandemic category) return to work in any given year.

    An incentive which changed that significantly might be worth it.

    'Exempting' is probably hedged with a number of things.
    The Guardian have a few more details of the proposal.

    "Whitehall officials have allegedly suggested exempting people aged over 50 returning to work from income tax for up to a year."

    If you had this as a blanket proposal for people of any age, so it included younger people who were long-term unemployed, then it would be interesting as providing more of a carrot incentive rather than stick penalty of the current approach.

    Nobody seems to have suggested taxing oldies on their housing wealth so they had to return to work to pay tax.
  • Options

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    30 point Labour lead. By July.

    I wonder what the May locals will do to the polls. It could be wishful thinking on my part, but this is the (possibly only) opportunity for the LDs to get out of the doldrums. It could see a big boost for them if they do particularly well. That would be at the expense of the Conservatives, but also Labour if they are seen as an alternative in the LD/Con areas where Lab will be also doing quite well in the polls currently.
    The voteshares in the May 2019 local elections were Conservatives 28% Labour 28% and LDs 19% when the ward seats up in May were last up.

    So there is little further room for swing to the LDs. Instead while there will be a swing from Conservative to Labour there might also be some swing from LD to Labour too now Starmer is Labour leader not Corbyn

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_United_Kingdom_local_elections
    Point taken and there is quite a margin between the current LD poll rating and the figure you quote and although the LDs usually do a lot better in locals it is quite a bit to make up, but they do outperform their poll rating by quite a bit in locals usually. It is also a particularly good opportunity for the electorate to kick the Tories when you are not electing a Govt so I would expect the Tories to have a particular hard time this time and the LDs should be able to squeeze the bigger Labour vote in the LD/Tory wards so it is possible.

    As I said it could be my wishful thinking as they certainly need it.
    There are very few LD-LAB marginals
    Hi Mike, how are you Sir?
  • Options
    mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,136

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg sets out to Tom Harwood what Conservatives must do to win over voters under 45

    https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1613479438058131463?s=20&t=pwEQ1cNXg_M83EtleNHyrg

    I'm under 45, Jacob is talking nonsense.

    What we need is to stop giving old people and pensioners a triple lock, we need house prices to come down massively and we need to massively increase housing supply.

    Until then, they're done
    The main reason house prices are so high is because we have high levels of migration.
    The main reason house prices so high was printing money instead of building houses.
    I've never understood the "house prices are driven by migration" argument.

    Migration:



    House prices:


  • Options
    DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    edited January 2023
    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg sets out to Tom Harwood what Conservatives must do to win over voters under 45

    https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1613479438058131463?s=20&t=pwEQ1cNXg_M83EtleNHyrg

    I'm under 45, Jacob is talking nonsense.

    What we need is to stop giving old people and pensioners a triple lock, we need house prices to come down massively and we need to massively increase housing supply.

    Until then, they're done
    About 2/3 of the electorate are home owners. That's a lot of people to get pissed off if house prices come down massively.
    The figure for actual owners who haven't given moneylenders a charge on their house title is lower than 2/3. Probably most of them would be pissed off, yes, but only because most of them are stupid. This is assuming most weren't planning to sell their homes and go and sleep on park benches somewhere surrounded by piles of luxury goods they bought with the house sale proceeds. A house price crash would deprive many of that option. If you own an asset and its market value falls, you can only sell it at a lower price but it will cost you less to buy a similar one elsewhere. And most of us want to live under a roof. It would be great if house prices fell by 90%. Bring it on.
  • Options
    kamskikamski Posts: 4,229
    DJ41 said:

    Leon said:
    Tom Jones with EMF was the peak?
    Surely this was when the world peaked:-

    Sex claim at No 10 lockdown party

    Some of Boris Johnson’s aides are believed to have had sex at 10 Downing Street during a party that took place during lockdown on the eve of the Duke of Edinburgh’s funeral.

    Two couples were seen by numerous witnesses becoming intimate with each other at the gathering of aides and officials, which continued past 4am. One pair were seen “feeling each other up” in a kitchen before retiring to a dark room from which they later emerged “flustered”. The other pair were seen going into an office “with the lights off”.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-partygate-joked-about-lack-of-social-distancing-at-downing-street-lockdown-event-qh5fcw9pz (£££)

    Flustered. That's a good word. Hope it doesn't get cancelled.
    I think 'feeling each other up' is some of the worst writing I've seen since 'The Ice Twins'.
    I love parties like get out of hand like that!

    Is this why Allegro Stratton looked just so bashful denying the lockdown party to camera?

    At least some people in the country thought lockdown and social distancing was mad and not worth complying with, because they come out of this the winners don’t they? Take the different students for example. Those who partied through lockdown like Tories were are now good and healthy and probably in a relationship - those who followed the government message now alone and on citalopram.

    Distance needs to pass before history books can sum the big picture up correctly, but it’s getting there? 1) ring fence the old and vulnerable, everyone else get on with parties and sex 2) don’t let NHS backlog get in such a state that the backlog wipes out as many as those save by lockdowns
    Plotting death rates "with SARSCoV2" (admittedly a stupid statistic but widely used) against vaccination rates, country by country and region by region, can be done right now, by any reasonably numerate person using figures from say Worldometers and the NYT. Vaccination (≥ 1 dose) was carried out to different extents in different countries, including in countries that have fairly similar social conditions, e.g. 78% in Germany, 81% in France, 81% in Britain, 84% in Italy. Does more of it correspond to lower death rates "with" the 2019 SARS variant per 1m population or not? Germany 1946, France 2488, Britain 2935, Italy 3077.
    Presumably your conclusion from this (as you say yourself "stupid") exercise is: countries that had big first waves before vaccines were available (Italy, Britain) had more deaths than countries that didn't (Germany).

    Or what was your point?
  • Options
    DJ41 said:

    Leon said:
    Tom Jones with EMF was the peak?
    Surely this was when the world peaked:-

    Sex claim at No 10 lockdown party

    Some of Boris Johnson’s aides are believed to have had sex at 10 Downing Street during a party that took place during lockdown on the eve of the Duke of Edinburgh’s funeral.

    Two couples were seen by numerous witnesses becoming intimate with each other at the gathering of aides and officials, which continued past 4am. One pair were seen “feeling each other up” in a kitchen before retiring to a dark room from which they later emerged “flustered”. The other pair were seen going into an office “with the lights off”.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-partygate-joked-about-lack-of-social-distancing-at-downing-street-lockdown-event-qh5fcw9pz (£££)

    Flustered. That's a good word. Hope it doesn't get cancelled.
    I think 'feeling each other up' is some of the worst writing I've seen since 'The Ice Twins'.
    I love parties like get out of hand like that!

    Is this why Allegro Stratton looked just so bashful denying the lockdown party to camera?

    At least some people in the country thought lockdown and social distancing was mad and not worth complying with, because they come out of this the winners don’t they? Take the different students for example. Those who partied through lockdown like Tories were are now good and healthy and probably in a relationship - those who followed the government message now alone and on citalopram.

    Distance needs to pass before history books can sum the big picture up correctly, but it’s getting there? 1) ring fence the old and vulnerable, everyone else get on with parties and sex 2) don’t let NHS backlog get in such a state that the backlog wipes out as many as those save by lockdowns
    Plotting death rates "with SARSCoV2" (admittedly a stupid statistic but widely used) against vaccination rates, country by country and region by region, can be done right now, by any reasonably numerate person using figures from say Worldometers and the NYT. Vaccination (≥ 1 dose) was carried out to different extents in different countries, including in countries that have fairly similar social conditions, e.g. 78% in Germany, 81% in France, 81% in Britain, 84% in Italy. Does more of it correspond to lower death rates "with" the 2019 SARS variant per 1m population or not? Germany 1946, France 2488, Britain 2935, Italy 3077.
    Italy was hit harder than the other countries you list before the vaccines were available. You would really need to look at death rates only after the start of vaccination.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,242

    Nigelb said:

    Yay! Another bung for the oldies. What could possibly go wrong?

    The Times has also been told that the Treasury is discussing giving people tax breaks to go back to work

    Discussion is at an early stage, but there's talk around allowances and even exempting over 50s from income tax


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1613483026721144837

    Exempting over 50s from income tax?

    That's hilarious.
    The problem it seeks to address isn't, though. Stats suggest that only around 1% of those who've left the workforce for two years (much of this post-pandemic category) return to work in any given year.

    An incentive which changed that significantly might be worth it.

    'Exempting' is probably hedged with a number of things.
    The Guardian have a few more details of the proposal.

    "Whitehall officials have allegedly suggested exempting people aged over 50 returning to work from income tax for up to a year."

    If you had this as a blanket proposal for people of any age, so it included younger people who were long-term unemployed, then it would be interesting as providing more of a carrot incentive rather than stick penalty of the current approach.

    Nobody seems to have suggested taxing oldies on their housing wealth so they had to return to work to pay tax.
    Benefit tapers. I have a relative who has people on £16+ an hour who don't want more hours. Because they would start loosing benefits as fast as they make money. And who wants to work on a building site for 50p an hour?

    We are literally paying people not to work - and punishing them if they do.
  • Options
    Leon said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    The word “field” has been cancelled. I shit you not


    Wait until they hear about Killing Fields.....named after Wilhelm Killing.

    Another cracking article here....

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/damar-hamlins-collapse-highlights-the-violence-black-men-experience-in-football/

    Zero facts, just opinion. Exactly the same point could be made about sports like Ice Hockey, which is overwhelmingly white (and on average don't get paid as much). If you want to argue college sports are unfair because the athletes aren't fairly remunerated, that is one thing (and true across all the sports), but NFL is racist because too many black people are good at it.
    The Fields Medal is surely pretty racist too - lots of white winners? All adds to the evidence against 'fields'.
    It’s been pointed out on Twitter that if you can cancel “field” then almost any word is liable for cancellation. “Work” for a start. Slaves were sent to WORK in FIELDS

    Also “sent”, “were” and “in”
    We should start a competiton for creating the longest possible non-woke sentence. I'll start.

    Ectoplasmic artichokes micturate phonetically.

    Your go.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,267
    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    To put the NHS chaos in context

    I am in Bangkok. Today I needed a prescription. I emailed a doctor this morning, they gave me a video consult at noon, they filled the prescription this afternoon and the pills have been biked to my hotel just now. Total cost: £60.

    The difference between a "free at the point of use" service - where rationing is done by queues - and one where payment is made - and cost is the rationing agent.

    At the St John & Elizabeth hospital in St John's Wood they offer something similar - though you can also get a hour's face to face consultation with an actual doctor - for between £100 and £120.
    The difference is, though, that cost being the rationing agent creates a real spur to expanding supply quickly, which can then reduce the cost as it starts to match demand.

    Rationing does not, except through the bureaucracy and politics - which takes a very long time.
  • Options
    mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,136

    Leon said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    The word “field” has been cancelled. I shit you not


    Wait until they hear about Killing Fields.....named after Wilhelm Killing.

    Another cracking article here....

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/damar-hamlins-collapse-highlights-the-violence-black-men-experience-in-football/

    Zero facts, just opinion. Exactly the same point could be made about sports like Ice Hockey, which is overwhelmingly white (and on average don't get paid as much). If you want to argue college sports are unfair because the athletes aren't fairly remunerated, that is one thing (and true across all the sports), but NFL is racist because too many black people are good at it.
    The Fields Medal is surely pretty racist too - lots of white winners? All adds to the evidence against 'fields'.
    It’s been pointed out on Twitter that if you can cancel “field” then almost any word is liable for cancellation. “Work” for a start. Slaves were sent to WORK in FIELDS

    Also “sent”, “were” and “in”
    We should start a competiton for creating the longest possible non-woke sentence. I'll start.

    Ectoplasmic artichokes micturate phonetically.

    Your go.
    You are disrespecting people who identify as ghost veg.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943
    edited January 2023

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    30 point Labour lead. By July.

    I wonder what the May locals will do to the polls. It could be wishful thinking on my part, but this is the (possibly only) opportunity for the LDs to get out of the doldrums. It could see a big boost for them if they do particularly well. That would be at the expense of the Conservatives, but also Labour if they are seen as an alternative in the LD/Con areas where Lab will be also doing quite well in the polls currently.
    The voteshares in the May 2019 local elections were Conservatives 28% Labour 28% and LDs 19% when the ward seats up in May were last up.

    So there is little further room for swing to the LDs. Instead while there will be a swing from Conservative to Labour there might also be some swing from LD to Labour too now Starmer is Labour leader not Corbyn

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_United_Kingdom_local_elections
    Point taken and there is quite a margin between the current LD poll rating and the figure you quote and although the LDs usually do a lot better in locals it is quite a bit to make up, but they do outperform their poll rating by quite a bit in locals usually. It is also a particularly good opportunity for the electorate to kick the Tories when you are not electing a Govt so I would expect the Tories to have a particular hard time this time and the LDs should be able to squeeze the bigger Labour vote in the LD/Tory wards so it is possible.

    As I said it could be my wishful thinking as they certainly need it.
    There are very few LD-LAB marginals
    There are a few in the big Northern cities.

    In 2019 for example most seats in wards in Liverpool, Manchester, Newcastle and Sheffield for example were Labour v LD or Labour v Green contests
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Liverpool_City_Council_election
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Manchester_City_Council_election#:~:text=Elections to Manchester City Council,by former MP John Leech.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Newcastle_City_Council_election
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Sheffield_City_Council_election

    Same was true for Cambridge

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Cambridge_City_Council_election
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    mwadams said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg sets out to Tom Harwood what Conservatives must do to win over voters under 45

    https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1613479438058131463?s=20&t=pwEQ1cNXg_M83EtleNHyrg

    I'm under 45, Jacob is talking nonsense.

    What we need is to stop giving old people and pensioners a triple lock, we need house prices to come down massively and we need to massively increase housing supply.

    Until then, they're done
    The main reason house prices are so high is because we have high levels of migration.
    The main reason house prices so high was printing money instead of building houses.
    I've never understood the "house prices are driven by migration" argument.

    Migration:



    House prices:


    Isn't it likely a combination of reduced supply and increased demand? Migration is certainly not the only thing driving house prices, but it certainly doesn't have no effect.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,059
    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg sets out to Tom Harwood what Conservatives must do to win over voters under 45

    https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1613479438058131463?s=20&t=pwEQ1cNXg_M83EtleNHyrg

    I'm under 45, Jacob is talking nonsense.

    What we need is to stop giving old people and pensioners a triple lock, we need house prices to come down massively and we need to massively increase housing supply.

    Until then, they're done
    The main reason house prices are so high is because we have high levels of migration.
    House prices, migration, nonsense, Mornington Crescent!
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,242
    mwadams said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg sets out to Tom Harwood what Conservatives must do to win over voters under 45

    https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1613479438058131463?s=20&t=pwEQ1cNXg_M83EtleNHyrg

    I'm under 45, Jacob is talking nonsense.

    What we need is to stop giving old people and pensioners a triple lock, we need house prices to come down massively and we need to massively increase housing supply.

    Until then, they're done
    The main reason house prices are so high is because we have high levels of migration.
    The main reason house prices so high was printing money instead of building houses.
    I've never understood the "house prices are driven by migration" argument.

    Migration:



    House prices:


    If you increase the population of the country (by any means) and don't build bedrooms to match, at first slack in the housing stock will be used up - any property, no matter how shit becomes usable. Then rebuilding to expand existing properties becomes common. Then the real crunch starts.

    We've been through all the phases of this.
  • Options

    Leon said:
    Tom Jones with EMF was the peak?
    Surely this was when the world peaked:-

    Sex claim at No 10 lockdown party

    Some of Boris Johnson’s aides are believed to have had sex at 10 Downing Street during a party that took place during lockdown on the eve of the Duke of Edinburgh’s funeral.

    Two couples were seen by numerous witnesses becoming intimate with each other at the gathering of aides and officials, which continued past 4am. One pair were seen “feeling each other up” in a kitchen before retiring to a dark room from which they later emerged “flustered”. The other pair were seen going into an office “with the lights off”.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-partygate-joked-about-lack-of-social-distancing-at-downing-street-lockdown-event-qh5fcw9pz (£££)

    Flustered. That's a good word. Hope it doesn't get cancelled.
    I think 'feeling each other up' is some of the worst writing I've seen since 'The Ice Twins'.
    I love parties like get out of hand like that!

    Is this why Allegro Stratton looked just so bashful denying the lockdown party to camera?

    At least some people in the country thought lockdown and social distancing was mad and not worth complying with, because they come out of this the winners don’t they? Take the different students for example. Those who partied through lockdown like Tories were are now good and healthy and probably in a relationship - those who followed the government message now alone and on citalopram.

    Distance needs to pass before history books can sum the big picture up correctly, but it’s getting there? 1) ring fence the old and vulnerable, everyone else get on with parties and sex 2) don’t let NHS backlog get in such a state that the backlog wipes out as many as those save by lockdowns
    1) Is nonsense though isn't it? Firstly who is vulnerable? I was asked to shield (on the day shielding officially ended) because of leukemia 8 years before (remission for 7 years). I was 48 at the time. Who shields? It would be millions and millions stopping their lives so that the young can be out and about as normal. And besides - the inhumanity of shielding. There are still people who have not left the house for three years. The issue with Covid is that you don't know if you are vulnerable. Lots of people under 50 died, many who considered themselves healthy. They were just unlucky.

    So no, shield the vulnerable is nonsense.
    Don’t be so daft. What exactly are you saying is the working alternative that actually happened.

    what you are calling the alternative to my nonsense was just pretend wasn’t it? Some, mostly the old and vulnerable, did lockdown after lockdown, everyone else didn’t, we now know is the historical truth of what actually happened don’t we? Beauty spots and beaches packed with people, gyms refusing to close, people driving all round the country, people seeing lovers, parties. The only thing that shouldn’t have stopped, health check ups, being beside bedside of dying loved ones and funerals were the things that did!

    Which is why sanctimoniously picking on Boris as the only law stretcher in the land is wrong isn’t it?



    You are trying to rewrite history so actual history gets lost.
    The slight problem with your protestation that The Clown wasn't the only "law stretcher" breaks down as a defence for him on the fact that he, unlike most other "law stretchers", was also the principle law maker, and the head of government.

    I think we can say with a fair degree of certainty that none of his predecessors would have been so foolhardy and so plainly contemptuous of the people that he claims to represent. God forbid that such a dishonest and absurdly frivolous individual should ever hold the highest office in our country
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    mwadams said:

    Leon said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    The word “field” has been cancelled. I shit you not


    Wait until they hear about Killing Fields.....named after Wilhelm Killing.

    Another cracking article here....

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/damar-hamlins-collapse-highlights-the-violence-black-men-experience-in-football/

    Zero facts, just opinion. Exactly the same point could be made about sports like Ice Hockey, which is overwhelmingly white (and on average don't get paid as much). If you want to argue college sports are unfair because the athletes aren't fairly remunerated, that is one thing (and true across all the sports), but NFL is racist because too many black people are good at it.
    The Fields Medal is surely pretty racist too - lots of white winners? All adds to the evidence against 'fields'.
    It’s been pointed out on Twitter that if you can cancel “field” then almost any word is liable for cancellation. “Work” for a start. Slaves were sent to WORK in FIELDS

    Also “sent”, “were” and “in”
    We should start a competiton for creating the longest possible non-woke sentence. I'll start.

    Ectoplasmic artichokes micturate phonetically.

    Your go.
    You are disrespecting people who identify as ghost veg.
    I ain’t afraid of upsetting no ectoplasm.

    Ectoplasm has a very well developed sense of humour. I read that in a book.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,104

    Nigelb said:

    Yay! Another bung for the oldies. What could possibly go wrong?

    The Times has also been told that the Treasury is discussing giving people tax breaks to go back to work

    Discussion is at an early stage, but there's talk around allowances and even exempting over 50s from income tax


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1613483026721144837

    Exempting over 50s from income tax?

    That's hilarious.
    The problem it seeks to address isn't, though. Stats suggest that only around 1% of those who've left the workforce for two years (much of this post-pandemic category) return to work in any given year.

    An incentive which changed that significantly might be worth it.

    'Exempting' is probably hedged with a number of things.
    The Guardian have a few more details of the proposal.

    "Whitehall officials have allegedly suggested exempting people aged over 50 returning to work from income tax for up to a year."

    If you had this as a blanket proposal for people of any age, so it included younger people who were long-term unemployed, then it would be interesting as providing more of a carrot incentive rather than stick penalty of the current approach.

    Nobody seems to have suggested taxing oldies on their housing wealth so they had to return to work to pay tax.
    Benefit tapers. I have a relative who has people on £16+ an hour who don't want more hours. Because they would start loosing benefits as fast as they make money. And who wants to work on a building site for 50p an hour?

    We are literally paying people not to work - and punishing them if they do.
    As the taper rate in a benefit system tends to zero you tend towards paying benefits to everyone, or to no-one.
  • Options
    mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,136

    mwadams said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg sets out to Tom Harwood what Conservatives must do to win over voters under 45

    https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1613479438058131463?s=20&t=pwEQ1cNXg_M83EtleNHyrg

    I'm under 45, Jacob is talking nonsense.

    What we need is to stop giving old people and pensioners a triple lock, we need house prices to come down massively and we need to massively increase housing supply.

    Until then, they're done
    The main reason house prices are so high is because we have high levels of migration.
    The main reason house prices so high was printing money instead of building houses.
    I've never understood the "house prices are driven by migration" argument.

    Migration:



    House prices:


    If you increase the population of the country (by any means) and don't build bedrooms to match, at first slack in the housing stock will be used up - any property, no matter how shit becomes usable. Then rebuilding to expand existing properties becomes common. Then the real crunch starts.

    We've been through all the phases of this.
    Yes, but look at the smooth population growth curve and the explosion of house prices in the early to mid 1990s. This is in the period when there is still plenty of slack in the system - and we all know that that growth was fuelled by consumer borrowing; that was at the heart of Gordon Brown's economic policy.

    Since the slack has all been consumed, house price growth actually tapered, until the disruption of COVID and a new demand-fuelled growth.
  • Options

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:
    Tom Jones with EMF was the peak?
    Surely this was when the world peaked:-

    Sex claim at No 10 lockdown party

    Some of Boris Johnson’s aides are believed to have had sex at 10 Downing Street during a party that took place during lockdown on the eve of the Duke of Edinburgh’s funeral.

    Two couples were seen by numerous witnesses becoming intimate with each other at the gathering of aides and officials, which continued past 4am. One pair were seen “feeling each other up” in a kitchen before retiring to a dark room from which they later emerged “flustered”. The other pair were seen going into an office “with the lights off”.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-partygate-joked-about-lack-of-social-distancing-at-downing-street-lockdown-event-qh5fcw9pz (£££)

    Flustered. That's a good word. Hope it doesn't get cancelled.
    The fact that these new party revelations are being deployed seems to indicate that there is growing disquiet in Camp Sunak.
    Growing disquiet in Camp Anyone-But-Boris, perhaps, following news of moves to reinstate Big Dog.
    Hopefully for them they have more than office rumpy pumpy to impede his Royal progress.

    By the way, I don't support Borises return, just think he'd be marginally better than the current Government. As would a horde of visigoths or a plague of newts.
    You'll be voting Labour, then ? 😏
    I would never rule it out. I don't think I would ever vote SNP (sorry SNP supporters) as their main object is to break up the UK and I cannot support that.
    That sounds like a no to the visigoths, too.
    True, but do you not think there's an opening for a Visigoth Party? They would have a fun manifesto for sure.
    What about the Ostrogoths? Gepids?
    There you have ready made 'splitters' for when the main Visigoth Party starts to fragment.

    I'm beginning to think this has some potential. I envisage policies such as free bus travel, a 5% basic rate of tax, and the complete destruction of any settlement over fifty people.

    There are parts of the country where this will go down wonderfully well.
  • Options
    DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg sets out to Tom Harwood what Conservatives must do to win over voters under 45

    https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1613479438058131463?s=20&t=pwEQ1cNXg_M83EtleNHyrg

    I'm under 45, Jacob is talking nonsense.

    What we need is to stop giving old people and pensioners a triple lock, we need house prices to come down massively and we need to massively increase housing supply.

    Until then, they're done
    The main reason house prices are so high is because we have high levels of migration.
    The main reasons are
    1) (demand side): the state has allowed lenders to operate with huge loan-to-deposit ratios
    2) (supply side): the planning permission regime.
  • Options

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg sets out to Tom Harwood what Conservatives must do to win over voters under 45

    https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1613479438058131463?s=20&t=pwEQ1cNXg_M83EtleNHyrg

    I'm under 45, Jacob is talking nonsense.

    What we need is to stop giving old people and pensioners a triple lock, we need house prices to come down massively and we need to massively increase housing supply.

    Until then, they're done
    The main reason house prices are so high is because we have high levels of migration.
    House prices, migration, nonsense, Mornington Crescent!
    There may be some cause and effect there. If we accept the proposition that immigration provides a boost to the economy, then it may well have some effect, and the converse may ultimately be true that if the national self harm aka Brexit has resulted in a decrease in immigration of skilled Europeans that previously boosted the economy, then ergo, a decrease in immigration might well be a catalyst to an eventual house price crash
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,919
    edited January 2023

    Leon said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    The word “field” has been cancelled. I shit you not


    Wait until they hear about Killing Fields.....named after Wilhelm Killing.

    Another cracking article here....

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/damar-hamlins-collapse-highlights-the-violence-black-men-experience-in-football/

    Zero facts, just opinion. Exactly the same point could be made about sports like Ice Hockey, which is overwhelmingly white (and on average don't get paid as much). If you want to argue college sports are unfair because the athletes aren't fairly remunerated, that is one thing (and true across all the sports), but NFL is racist because too many black people are good at it.
    The Fields Medal is surely pretty racist too - lots of white winners? All adds to the evidence against 'fields'.
    It’s been pointed out on Twitter that if you can cancel “field” then almost any word is liable for cancellation. “Work” for a start. Slaves were sent to WORK in FIELDS

    Also “sent”, “were” and “in”
    We should start a competiton for creating the longest possible non-woke sentence. I'll start.

    Ectoplasmic artichokes micturate phonetically.

    Your go.
    Sorry Peter. Phonetics are racist (apparently)

    I can't find the original article but Yachting weekly had a piece on this all the way back in 2004. It was quoted on one of the yachting forums.

    "Fears that the recommended VHF radio phonetic alphabet could be outdated, or even racist, are being examined by the government’s Department for Transport."

    More recently - and probably more fairly - the German government looked at changing their phonetic alphabet because so much of it was created in the Nazi era.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/03/zacharias-not-zeppelin-germany-to-scrap-nazi-era-phonetic-table
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,059
    edited January 2023

    Leon said:
    Tom Jones with EMF was the peak?
    Surely this was when the world peaked:-

    Sex claim at No 10 lockdown party

    Some of Boris Johnson’s aides are believed to have had sex at 10 Downing Street during a party that took place during lockdown on the eve of the Duke of Edinburgh’s funeral.

    Two couples were seen by numerous witnesses becoming intimate with each other at the gathering of aides and officials, which continued past 4am. One pair were seen “feeling each other up” in a kitchen before retiring to a dark room from which they later emerged “flustered”. The other pair were seen going into an office “with the lights off”.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-partygate-joked-about-lack-of-social-distancing-at-downing-street-lockdown-event-qh5fcw9pz (£££)

    Flustered. That's a good word. Hope it doesn't get cancelled.
    I think 'feeling each other up' is some of the worst writing I've seen since 'The Ice Twins'.
    I love parties like get out of hand like that!

    Is this why Allegro Stratton looked just so bashful denying the lockdown party to camera?

    At least some people in the country thought lockdown and social distancing was mad and not worth complying with, because they come out of this the winners don’t they? Take the different students for example. Those who partied through lockdown like Tories were are now good and healthy and probably in a relationship - those who followed the government message now alone and on citalopram.

    Distance needs to pass before history books can sum the big picture up correctly, but it’s getting there? 1) ring fence the old and vulnerable, everyone else get on with parties and sex 2) don’t let NHS backlog get in such a state that the backlog wipes out as many as those save by lockdowns
    1) Is nonsense though isn't it? Firstly who is vulnerable? I was asked to shield (on the day shielding officially ended) because of leukemia 8 years before (remission for 7 years). I was 48 at the time. Who shields? It would be millions and millions stopping their lives so that the young can be out and about as normal. And besides - the inhumanity of shielding. There are still people who have not left the house for three years. The issue with Covid is that you don't know if you are vulnerable. Lots of people under 50 died, many who considered themselves healthy. They were just unlucky.

    So no, shield the vulnerable is nonsense.
    Don’t be so daft. What exactly are you saying is the working alternative that actually happened.

    what you are calling the alternative to my nonsense was just pretend wasn’t it? Some, mostly the old and vulnerable, did lockdown after lockdown, everyone else didn’t, we now know is the historical truth of what actually happened don’t we? Beauty spots and beaches packed with people, gyms refusing to close, people driving all round the country, people seeing lovers, parties. The only thing that shouldn’t have stopped, health check ups, being beside bedside of dying loved ones and funerals were the things that did!

    Which is why sanctimoniously picking on Boris as the only law stretcher in the land is wrong isn’t it?



    You are trying to rewrite history so actual history gets lost.
    Oh Rabbit!

    Today we are looking through the Boris shaped window.

    The rules may have been misinterpreted and sometimes unclear, but Johnson set the rules. He had absolutely no justification to misunderstand them, or bend them, let alone shatter them into alcohol soaked, unsocially-distanced pieces.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,104

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:
    Tom Jones with EMF was the peak?
    Surely this was when the world peaked:-

    Sex claim at No 10 lockdown party

    Some of Boris Johnson’s aides are believed to have had sex at 10 Downing Street during a party that took place during lockdown on the eve of the Duke of Edinburgh’s funeral.

    Two couples were seen by numerous witnesses becoming intimate with each other at the gathering of aides and officials, which continued past 4am. One pair were seen “feeling each other up” in a kitchen before retiring to a dark room from which they later emerged “flustered”. The other pair were seen going into an office “with the lights off”.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-partygate-joked-about-lack-of-social-distancing-at-downing-street-lockdown-event-qh5fcw9pz (£££)

    Flustered. That's a good word. Hope it doesn't get cancelled.
    The fact that these new party revelations are being deployed seems to indicate that there is growing disquiet in Camp Sunak.
    Growing disquiet in Camp Anyone-But-Boris, perhaps, following news of moves to reinstate Big Dog.
    Hopefully for them they have more than office rumpy pumpy to impede his Royal progress.

    By the way, I don't support Borises return, just think he'd be marginally better than the current Government. As would a horde of visigoths or a plague of newts.
    You'll be voting Labour, then ? 😏
    I would never rule it out. I don't think I would ever vote SNP (sorry SNP supporters) as their main object is to break up the UK and I cannot support that.
    That sounds like a no to the visigoths, too.
    True, but do you not think there's an opening for a Visigoth Party? They would have a fun manifesto for sure.
    What about the Ostrogoths? Gepids?
    There you have ready made 'splitters' for when the main Visigoth Party starts to fragment.

    I'm beginning to think this has some potential. I envisage policies such as free bus travel, a 5% basic rate of tax, and the complete destruction of any settlement over fifty people.

    There are parts of the country where this will go down wonderfully well.
    The Romans were fans of hiding messages in acrostics. Not sure if anyone should take yours personally?
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,378
    This is a little cruel, but quite funny.

    ‘I was alone. Abandoned. With only a hundred million in the bank’ – Spare, digested by John Crace
    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/jan/12/i-was-alone-abandoned-with-only-a-hundred-million-in-the-bank-spare-digested-by-john-crace
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,573
    edited January 2023
    Completely off topic, but I am visiting my daughter in Stockport sometime soon to do a brewery tour she bought me for Christmas. I am going to take time to visit my University (Manchester) while up there. The alumni services have been excellent. I am shocked by the changes. This is characteristic of old foggies something I hoped I would never become. I was there 50 years ago. What should I expect? After all in the 1960s the war was distant history as far as I was concerned. That was only 20 years previously. I guess I have failed.
  • Options

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    To put the NHS chaos in context

    I am in Bangkok. Today I needed a prescription. I emailed a doctor this morning, they gave me a video consult at noon, they filled the prescription this afternoon and the pills have been biked to my hotel just now. Total cost: £60.

    The difference between a "free at the point of use" service - where rationing is done by queues - and one where payment is made - and cost is the rationing agent.

    At the St John & Elizabeth hospital in St John's Wood they offer something similar - though you can also get a hour's face to face consultation with an actual doctor - for between £100 and £120.
    The difference is, though, that cost being the rationing agent creates a real spur to expanding supply quickly, which can then reduce the cost as it starts to match demand.

    Rationing does not, except through the bureaucracy and politics - which takes a very long time.
    The most interesting thing about @Cyclefree's anecdote is that these are no doubt the very same doctors who are on the payroll of the unsackable bureaucracy known as the NHS. The very same doctors who claim that they are overworked and underpaid, or so their extremely muscular union, the BMA, will claim.

    They know they can have this best of both worlds working practice because the British public only ever blame the government for the failings of the Magisterium, sorry, I mean the NHS
  • Options
    DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    edited January 2023
    kamski said:

    DJ41 said:

    Leon said:
    Tom Jones with EMF was the peak?
    Surely this was when the world peaked:-

    Sex claim at No 10 lockdown party

    Some of Boris Johnson’s aides are believed to have had sex at 10 Downing Street during a party that took place during lockdown on the eve of the Duke of Edinburgh’s funeral.

    Two couples were seen by numerous witnesses becoming intimate with each other at the gathering of aides and officials, which continued past 4am. One pair were seen “feeling each other up” in a kitchen before retiring to a dark room from which they later emerged “flustered”. The other pair were seen going into an office “with the lights off”.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-partygate-joked-about-lack-of-social-distancing-at-downing-street-lockdown-event-qh5fcw9pz (£££)

    Flustered. That's a good word. Hope it doesn't get cancelled.
    I think 'feeling each other up' is some of the worst writing I've seen since 'The Ice Twins'.
    I love parties like get out of hand like that!

    Is this why Allegro Stratton looked just so bashful denying the lockdown party to camera?

    At least some people in the country thought lockdown and social distancing was mad and not worth complying with, because they come out of this the winners don’t they? Take the different students for example. Those who partied through lockdown like Tories were are now good and healthy and probably in a relationship - those who followed the government message now alone and on citalopram.

    Distance needs to pass before history books can sum the big picture up correctly, but it’s getting there? 1) ring fence the old and vulnerable, everyone else get on with parties and sex 2) don’t let NHS backlog get in such a state that the backlog wipes out as many as those save by lockdowns
    Plotting death rates "with SARSCoV2" (admittedly a stupid statistic but widely used) against vaccination rates, country by country and region by region, can be done right now, by any reasonably numerate person using figures from say Worldometers and the NYT. Vaccination (≥ 1 dose) was carried out to different extents in different countries, including in countries that have fairly similar social conditions, e.g. 78% in Germany, 81% in France, 81% in Britain, 84% in Italy. Does more of it correspond to lower death rates "with" the 2019 SARS variant per 1m population or not? Germany 1946, France 2488, Britain 2935, Italy 3077.
    Presumably your conclusion from this (as you say yourself "stupid") exercise is: countries that had big first waves before vaccines were available (Italy, Britain) had more deaths than countries that didn't (Germany).

    Or what was your point?
    It's not stupid. Death rates "with SARSCoV2" are the only ones I know how to get with the amount of effort I'm able to put in. It's first-order. A second-order consideration would bring in the movements of both rates over time - that's certainly true and not a point that needs to be made insultingly.

    "Do the stats show that vaccination worked?" is not at all a stupid question, much as it may offend some.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,470
    Independents are now the third largest "grouping" in the House of Commons.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Commons_of_the_United_Kingdom
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,130
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:
    Tom Jones with EMF was the peak?
    Surely this was when the world peaked:-

    Sex claim at No 10 lockdown party

    Some of Boris Johnson’s aides are believed to have had sex at 10 Downing Street during a party that took place during lockdown on the eve of the Duke of Edinburgh’s funeral.

    Two couples were seen by numerous witnesses becoming intimate with each other at the gathering of aides and officials, which continued past 4am. One pair were seen “feeling each other up” in a kitchen before retiring to a dark room from which they later emerged “flustered”. The other pair were seen going into an office “with the lights off”.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-partygate-joked-about-lack-of-social-distancing-at-downing-street-lockdown-event-qh5fcw9pz (£££)

    Flustered. That's a good word. Hope it doesn't get cancelled.
    I think 'feeling each other up' is some of the worst writing I've seen since 'The Ice Twins'.
    I love parties like get out of hand like that!

    Is this why Allegro Stratton looked just so bashful denying the lockdown party to camera?

    At least some people in the country thought lockdown and social distancing was mad and not worth complying with, because they come out of this the winners don’t they? Take the different students for example. Those who partied through lockdown like Tories were are now good and healthy and probably in a relationship - those who followed the government message now alone and on citalopram.

    Distance needs to pass before history books can sum the big picture up correctly, but it’s getting there? 1) ring fence the old and vulnerable, everyone else get on with parties and sex 2) don’t let NHS backlog get in such a state that the backlog wipes out as many as those save by lockdowns
    1) Is nonsense though isn't it? Firstly who is vulnerable? I was asked to shield (on the day shielding officially ended) because of leukemia 8 years before (remission for 7 years). I was 48 at the time. Who shields? It would be millions and millions stopping their lives so that the young can be out and about as normal. And besides - the inhumanity of shielding. There are still people who have not left the house for three years. The issue with Covid is that you don't know if you are vulnerable. Lots of people under 50 died, many who considered themselves healthy. They were just unlucky.

    So no, shield the vulnerable is nonsense.
    I wish you continued remission.

    But your statement makes no sense. If everyone is being locked down then you don't go out. If just you are locked down and the uni students can go party they you don't go out.

    So the only issue is that in one case you don't go out and no one else does; and in the other you don't go out and other people do.

    I see no reason, given that it doesn't affect your own situation, why you would want to deny others who are likely not vulnerable at all or only to a tiny degree the ability to go out.

    I hesitate to say dog in the manger...
    I think that some people thought 'I'd be alright' and a lot of them died. Yes its riskier if you are older, sicker generally, but covid killed young, healthy people. And the vulnerable includes an awful lot of people who work in essential services and so on. Getting covid rates as low as possible as quickly as possible was the right thing to do.

    Where I disagree with out handling of covid was the release from lockdown/restriction in 2021 - it was far too slow.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799
    DJ41 said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg sets out to Tom Harwood what Conservatives must do to win over voters under 45

    https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1613479438058131463?s=20&t=pwEQ1cNXg_M83EtleNHyrg

    I'm under 45, Jacob is talking nonsense.

    What we need is to stop giving old people and pensioners a triple lock, we need house prices to come down massively and we need to massively increase housing supply.

    Until then, they're done
    About 2/3 of the electorate are home owners. That's a lot of people to get pissed off if house prices come down massively.
    The figure for actual owners who haven't given moneylenders a charge on their house title is lower than 2/3. Probably most of them would be pissed off, yes, but only because most of them are stupid. This is assuming most weren't planning to sell their homes and go and sleep on park benches somewhere surrounded by piles of luxury goods they bought with the house sale proceeds. A house price crash would deprive many of that option. If you own an asset and its market value falls, you can only sell it at a lower price but it will cost you less to buy a similar one elsewhere. And most of us want to live under a roof. It would be great if house prices fell by 90%. Bring it on.
    It is of course, those with mortgages who would be hit hardest by a house price crash.

    Suppose you pay £200,000 for a house, with a £150,000 mortgage. If house prices drop by say, 30%, you now have a mortgage worth more than your house.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,059

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg sets out to Tom Harwood what Conservatives must do to win over voters under 45

    https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1613479438058131463?s=20&t=pwEQ1cNXg_M83EtleNHyrg

    I'm under 45, Jacob is talking nonsense.

    What we need is to stop giving old people and pensioners a triple lock, we need house prices to come down massively and we need to massively increase housing supply.

    Until then, they're done
    The main reason house prices are so high is because we have high levels of migration.
    House prices, migration, nonsense, Mornington Crescent!
    There may be some cause and effect there. If we accept the proposition that immigration provides a boost to the economy, then it may well have some effect, and the converse may ultimately be true that if the national self harm aka Brexit has resulted in a decrease in immigration of skilled Europeans that previously boosted the economy, then ergo, a decrease in immigration might well be a catalyst to an eventual house price crash
    Would you mind if I precised your post?

    House price and migration correlation. Yes, no, aye, but...
  • Options
    LennonLennon Posts: 1,729
    Andy_JS said:

    Independents are now the third largest "grouping" in the House of Commons.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Commons_of_the_United_Kingdom

    Fourth largest surely? Con, Lab, SNP, 'Indy', LibDem
  • Options
    Sean_F said:

    DJ41 said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg sets out to Tom Harwood what Conservatives must do to win over voters under 45

    https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1613479438058131463?s=20&t=pwEQ1cNXg_M83EtleNHyrg

    I'm under 45, Jacob is talking nonsense.

    What we need is to stop giving old people and pensioners a triple lock, we need house prices to come down massively and we need to massively increase housing supply.

    Until then, they're done
    About 2/3 of the electorate are home owners. That's a lot of people to get pissed off if house prices come down massively.
    The figure for actual owners who haven't given moneylenders a charge on their house title is lower than 2/3. Probably most of them would be pissed off, yes, but only because most of them are stupid. This is assuming most weren't planning to sell their homes and go and sleep on park benches somewhere surrounded by piles of luxury goods they bought with the house sale proceeds. A house price crash would deprive many of that option. If you own an asset and its market value falls, you can only sell it at a lower price but it will cost you less to buy a similar one elsewhere. And most of us want to live under a roof. It would be great if house prices fell by 90%. Bring it on.
    It is of course, those with mortgages who would be hit hardest by a house price crash.

    Suppose you pay £200,000 for a house, with a £150,000 mortgage. If house prices drop by say, 30%, you now have a mortgage worth more than your house.
    345,000 homes were repossessed between 1990 and 1995 in the last negative equity crisis
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,077

    Yay! Another bung for the oldies. What could possibly go wrong?

    The Times has also been told that the Treasury is discussing giving people tax breaks to go back to work

    Discussion is at an early stage, but there's talk around allowances and even exempting over 50s from income tax


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1613483026721144837

    Are they taking the f*cking piss?
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,130

    Leon said:
    Tom Jones with EMF was the peak?
    Surely this was when the world peaked:-

    Sex claim at No 10 lockdown party

    Some of Boris Johnson’s aides are believed to have had sex at 10 Downing Street during a party that took place during lockdown on the eve of the Duke of Edinburgh’s funeral.

    Two couples were seen by numerous witnesses becoming intimate with each other at the gathering of aides and officials, which continued past 4am. One pair were seen “feeling each other up” in a kitchen before retiring to a dark room from which they later emerged “flustered”. The other pair were seen going into an office “with the lights off”.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-partygate-joked-about-lack-of-social-distancing-at-downing-street-lockdown-event-qh5fcw9pz (£££)

    Flustered. That's a good word. Hope it doesn't get cancelled.
    I think 'feeling each other up' is some of the worst writing I've seen since 'The Ice Twins'.
    I love parties like get out of hand like that!

    Is this why Allegro Stratton looked just so bashful denying the lockdown party to camera?

    At least some people in the country thought lockdown and social distancing was mad and not worth complying with, because they come out of this the winners don’t they? Take the different students for example. Those who partied through lockdown like Tories were are now good and healthy and probably in a relationship - those who followed the government message now alone and on citalopram.

    Distance needs to pass before history books can sum the big picture up correctly, but it’s getting there? 1) ring fence the old and vulnerable, everyone else get on with parties and sex 2) don’t let NHS backlog get in such a state that the backlog wipes out as many as those save by lockdowns
    1) Is nonsense though isn't it? Firstly who is vulnerable? I was asked to shield (on the day shielding officially ended) because of leukemia 8 years before (remission for 7 years). I was 48 at the time. Who shields? It would be millions and millions stopping their lives so that the young can be out and about as normal. And besides - the inhumanity of shielding. There are still people who have not left the house for three years. The issue with Covid is that you don't know if you are vulnerable. Lots of people under 50 died, many who considered themselves healthy. They were just unlucky.

    So no, shield the vulnerable is nonsense.
    Don’t be so daft. What exactly are you saying is the working alternative that actually happened.

    what you are calling the alternative to my nonsense was just pretend wasn’t it? Some, mostly the old and vulnerable, did lockdown after lockdown, everyone else didn’t, we now know is the historical truth of what actually happened don’t we? Beauty spots and beaches packed with people, gyms refusing to close, people driving all round the country, people seeing lovers, parties. The only thing that shouldn’t have stopped, health check ups, being beside bedside of dying loved ones and funerals were the things that did!

    Which is why sanctimoniously picking on Boris as the only law stretcher in the land is wrong isn’t it?



    You are trying to rewrite history so actual history gets lost.
    Beaches being packed were not during lockdown. You are young - most people, most of the time obeyed the often contradictory rules.

    If you've read anything I posted at the time, I am not one to sanctimoniously go after Johnson for what happened in number 10. His mistake is lying about it. Again and again and again. As will become ever clearer at the MP panel. I know a lot of people bent the rules. But most people tried to do the right thing. i didn't attend a funeral as I had been around students and didn't want to risk infecting elderly relatives.

    I also get that it was shit for youngsters. Personally I'd have am amnesty for all covid fines (not the dodgy PPE suppliers, but those having parties or whatever).
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,573
    edited January 2023
    Sean_F said:

    DJ41 said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg sets out to Tom Harwood what Conservatives must do to win over voters under 45

    https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1613479438058131463?s=20&t=pwEQ1cNXg_M83EtleNHyrg

    I'm under 45, Jacob is talking nonsense.

    What we need is to stop giving old people and pensioners a triple lock, we need house prices to come down massively and we need to massively increase housing supply.

    Until then, they're done
    About 2/3 of the electorate are home owners. That's a lot of people to get pissed off if house prices come down massively.
    The figure for actual owners who haven't given moneylenders a charge on their house title is lower than 2/3. Probably most of them would be pissed off, yes, but only because most of them are stupid. This is assuming most weren't planning to sell their homes and go and sleep on park benches somewhere surrounded by piles of luxury goods they bought with the house sale proceeds. A house price crash would deprive many of that option. If you own an asset and its market value falls, you can only sell it at a lower price but it will cost you less to buy a similar one elsewhere. And most of us want to live under a roof. It would be great if house prices fell by 90%. Bring it on.
    It is of course, those with mortgages who would be hit hardest by a house price crash.

    Suppose you pay £200,000 for a house, with a £150,000 mortgage. If house prices drop by say, 30%, you now have a mortgage worth more than your house.
    Although it is no concilation it is also not new. I sold one of my previous houses for significantly less than I paid for it and my mortgage interest rate was 15%
  • Options

    Leon said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    The word “field” has been cancelled. I shit you not


    Wait until they hear about Killing Fields.....named after Wilhelm Killing.

    Another cracking article here....

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/damar-hamlins-collapse-highlights-the-violence-black-men-experience-in-football/

    Zero facts, just opinion. Exactly the same point could be made about sports like Ice Hockey, which is overwhelmingly white (and on average don't get paid as much). If you want to argue college sports are unfair because the athletes aren't fairly remunerated, that is one thing (and true across all the sports), but NFL is racist because too many black people are good at it.
    The Fields Medal is surely pretty racist too - lots of white winners? All adds to the evidence against 'fields'.
    It’s been pointed out on Twitter that if you can cancel “field” then almost any word is liable for cancellation. “Work” for a start. Slaves were sent to WORK in FIELDS

    Also “sent”, “were” and “in”
    We should start a competiton for creating the longest possible non-woke sentence. I'll start.

    Ectoplasmic artichokes micturate phonetically.

    Your go.
    Sorry Peter. Phonetics are racist (apparently)

    I can't find the original article but Yachting weekly had a piece on this all the way back in 2004. It was quoted on one of the yachting forums.

    "Fears that the recommended VHF radio phonetic alphabet could be outdated, or even racist, are being examined by the government’s Department for Transport."

    More recently - and probably more fairly - the German government looked at changing their phonetic alphabet because so much of it was created in the Nazi era.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/03/zacharias-not-zeppelin-germany-to-scrap-nazi-era-phonetic-table
    I guess that there might well be a class action against the phonetic alphabet from a group of Quebecois, Indians Zulus and Yankees.

    They will be cheered (bravo) by Charlie, Mike, Romeo, Victor Juliette and her Papa. Juliette will also have a strong case to make for female underrepresentation.
  • Options
    Andy_JS said:

    Independents are now the third largest "grouping" in the House of Commons.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Commons_of_the_United_Kingdom

    Have the SNP disbanded then? Huge if true.

    The independents also simply aren't a group. They are suspended MPs from various parties with nothing in common (other, perhaps, than a love of blow, brown envelopes, conspiracy theories and whatever else).
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415

    Leon said:
    Tom Jones with EMF was the peak?
    Surely this was when the world peaked:-

    Sex claim at No 10 lockdown party

    Some of Boris Johnson’s aides are believed to have had sex at 10 Downing Street during a party that took place during lockdown on the eve of the Duke of Edinburgh’s funeral.

    Two couples were seen by numerous witnesses becoming intimate with each other at the gathering of aides and officials, which continued past 4am. One pair were seen “feeling each other up” in a kitchen before retiring to a dark room from which they later emerged “flustered”. The other pair were seen going into an office “with the lights off”.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-partygate-joked-about-lack-of-social-distancing-at-downing-street-lockdown-event-qh5fcw9pz (£££)

    Flustered. That's a good word. Hope it doesn't get cancelled.
    I think 'feeling each other up' is some of the worst writing I've seen since 'The Ice Twins'.
    I love parties like get out of hand like that!

    Is this why Allegro Stratton looked just so bashful denying the lockdown party to camera?

    At least some people in the country thought lockdown and social distancing was mad and not worth complying with, because they come out of this the winners don’t they? Take the different students for example. Those who partied through lockdown like Tories were are now good and healthy and probably in a relationship - those who followed the government message now alone and on citalopram.

    Distance needs to pass before history books can sum the big picture up correctly, but it’s getting there? 1) ring fence the old and vulnerable, everyone else get on with parties and sex 2) don’t let NHS backlog get in such a state that the backlog wipes out as many as those save by lockdowns
    1) Is nonsense though isn't it? Firstly who is vulnerable? I was asked to shield (on the day shielding officially ended) because of leukemia 8 years before (remission for 7 years). I was 48 at the time. Who shields? It would be millions and millions stopping their lives so that the young can be out and about as normal. And besides - the inhumanity of shielding. There are still people who have not left the house for three years. The issue with Covid is that you don't know if you are vulnerable. Lots of people under 50 died, many who considered themselves healthy. They were just unlucky.

    So no, shield the vulnerable is nonsense.
    Don’t be so daft. What exactly are you saying is the working alternative that actually happened.

    what you are calling the alternative to my nonsense was just pretend wasn’t it? Some, mostly the old and vulnerable, did lockdown after lockdown, everyone else didn’t, we now know is the historical truth of what actually happened don’t we? Beauty spots and beaches packed with people, gyms refusing to close, people driving all round the country, people seeing lovers, parties. The only thing that shouldn’t have stopped, health check ups, being beside bedside of dying loved ones and funerals were the things that did!

    Which is why sanctimoniously picking on Boris as the only law stretcher in the land is wrong isn’t it?



    You are trying to rewrite history so actual history gets lost.
    The slight problem with your protestation that The Clown wasn't the only "law stretcher" breaks down as a defence for him on the fact that he, unlike most other "law stretchers", was also the principle law maker, and the head of government.

    I think we can say with a fair degree of certainty that none of his predecessors would have been so foolhardy and so plainly contemptuous of the people that he claims to represent. God forbid that such a dishonest and absurdly frivolous individual should ever hold the highest office in our country
    “I think we can say with a fair degree of certainty that none of his predecessors would have been so foolhardy”

    That’s just supposition! Certainly the next Labour PM was police investigated twice due to his own antics during lockdown, whilst trying to pretend he was whiter than white. That’s what the history books will point out. You are being daft because previous leaders were not put on the spot and tested trying to work and live as PM during the pandemic - you don’t know what sort of instances and news stories would have emerged - anyone can be ambushed by a cake - except you are stretching credulity to imply only under Boris, so he’s the only bad un. Thats just lazy history book writing.

    Truth is, when your in the spotlight as PM, in middle of a parliament, all sorts of fluff and nonsense gets amplified. Blair with some flats in Bristols and his wife’s guru, Major with tucking his shirt in underpants etc etc. none of this goes into history books or common lore if your not PM.

    So the post you just posted is gibberish isn’t it? You should be stripped of those likes.
  • Options
    Hey @MoonRabbit you are back! :)
  • Options

    Leon said:
    Tom Jones with EMF was the peak?
    Surely this was when the world peaked:-

    Sex claim at No 10 lockdown party

    Some of Boris Johnson’s aides are believed to have had sex at 10 Downing Street during a party that took place during lockdown on the eve of the Duke of Edinburgh’s funeral.

    Two couples were seen by numerous witnesses becoming intimate with each other at the gathering of aides and officials, which continued past 4am. One pair were seen “feeling each other up” in a kitchen before retiring to a dark room from which they later emerged “flustered”. The other pair were seen going into an office “with the lights off”.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-partygate-joked-about-lack-of-social-distancing-at-downing-street-lockdown-event-qh5fcw9pz (£££)

    Flustered. That's a good word. Hope it doesn't get cancelled.
    I think 'feeling each other up' is some of the worst writing I've seen since 'The Ice Twins'.
    I love parties like get out of hand like that!

    Is this why Allegro Stratton looked just so bashful denying the lockdown party to camera?

    At least some people in the country thought lockdown and social distancing was mad and not worth complying with, because they come out of this the winners don’t they? Take the different students for example. Those who partied through lockdown like Tories were are now good and healthy and probably in a relationship - those who followed the government message now alone and on citalopram.

    Distance needs to pass before history books can sum the big picture up correctly, but it’s getting there? 1) ring fence the old and vulnerable, everyone else get on with parties and sex 2) don’t let NHS backlog get in such a state that the backlog wipes out as many as those save by lockdowns
    1) Is nonsense though isn't it? Firstly who is vulnerable? I was asked to shield (on the day shielding officially ended) because of leukemia 8 years before (remission for 7 years). I was 48 at the time. Who shields? It would be millions and millions stopping their lives so that the young can be out and about as normal. And besides - the inhumanity of shielding. There are still people who have not left the house for three years. The issue with Covid is that you don't know if you are vulnerable. Lots of people under 50 died, many who considered themselves healthy. They were just unlucky.

    So no, shield the vulnerable is nonsense.
    Don’t be so daft. What exactly are you saying is the working alternative that actually happened.

    what you are calling the alternative to my nonsense was just pretend wasn’t it? Some, mostly the old and vulnerable, did lockdown after lockdown, everyone else didn’t, we now know is the historical truth of what actually happened don’t we? Beauty spots and beaches packed with people, gyms refusing to close, people driving all round the country, people seeing lovers, parties. The only thing that shouldn’t have stopped, health check ups, being beside bedside of dying loved ones and funerals were the things that did!

    Which is why sanctimoniously picking on Boris as the only law stretcher in the land is wrong isn’t it?



    You are trying to rewrite history so actual history gets lost.
    The slight problem with your protestation that The Clown wasn't the only "law stretcher" breaks down as a defence for him on the fact that he, unlike most other "law stretchers", was also the principle law maker, and the head of government.

    I think we can say with a fair degree of certainty that none of his predecessors would have been so foolhardy and so plainly contemptuous of the people that he claims to represent. God forbid that such a dishonest and absurdly frivolous individual should ever hold the highest office in our country
    “I think we can say with a fair degree of certainty that none of his predecessors would have been so foolhardy”

    That’s just supposition! Certainly the next Labour PM was police investigated twice due to his own antics during lockdown, whilst trying to pretend he was whiter than white. That’s what the history books will point out. You are being daft because previous leaders were not put on the spot and tested trying to work and live as PM during the pandemic - you don’t know what sort of instances and news stories would have emerged - anyone can be ambushed by a cake - except you are stretching credulity to imply only under Boris, so he’s the only bad un. Thats just lazy history book writing.

    Truth is, when your in the spotlight as PM, in middle of a parliament, all sorts of fluff and nonsense gets amplified. Blair with some flats in Bristols and his wife’s guru, Major with tucking his shirt in underpants etc etc. none of this goes into history books or common lore if your not PM.

    So the post you just posted is gibberish isn’t it? You should be stripped of those likes.
    Gibberish? I thought it a quite well constructed. Thanks for the feedback, though, always appreciated, even though it is about as credible as a wedding vow from Boris Johnson.

    The Clown was a twat and unfit for high office. Get over it.
  • Options

    Yay! Another bung for the oldies. What could possibly go wrong?

    The Times has also been told that the Treasury is discussing giving people tax breaks to go back to work

    Discussion is at an early stage, but there's talk around allowances and even exempting over 50s from income tax


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1613483026721144837

    Are they taking the f*cking piss?
    Couldnt we just simplify the whole tax system and say that if you don't vote Tory to give 60% of your income to the nearest person who does?
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,242
    DJ41 said:

    kamski said:

    DJ41 said:

    Leon said:
    Tom Jones with EMF was the peak?
    Surely this was when the world peaked:-

    Sex claim at No 10 lockdown party

    Some of Boris Johnson’s aides are believed to have had sex at 10 Downing Street during a party that took place during lockdown on the eve of the Duke of Edinburgh’s funeral.

    Two couples were seen by numerous witnesses becoming intimate with each other at the gathering of aides and officials, which continued past 4am. One pair were seen “feeling each other up” in a kitchen before retiring to a dark room from which they later emerged “flustered”. The other pair were seen going into an office “with the lights off”.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-partygate-joked-about-lack-of-social-distancing-at-downing-street-lockdown-event-qh5fcw9pz (£££)

    Flustered. That's a good word. Hope it doesn't get cancelled.
    I think 'feeling each other up' is some of the worst writing I've seen since 'The Ice Twins'.
    I love parties like get out of hand like that!

    Is this why Allegro Stratton looked just so bashful denying the lockdown party to camera?

    At least some people in the country thought lockdown and social distancing was mad and not worth complying with, because they come out of this the winners don’t they? Take the different students for example. Those who partied through lockdown like Tories were are now good and healthy and probably in a relationship - those who followed the government message now alone and on citalopram.

    Distance needs to pass before history books can sum the big picture up correctly, but it’s getting there? 1) ring fence the old and vulnerable, everyone else get on with parties and sex 2) don’t let NHS backlog get in such a state that the backlog wipes out as many as those save by lockdowns
    Plotting death rates "with SARSCoV2" (admittedly a stupid statistic but widely used) against vaccination rates, country by country and region by region, can be done right now, by any reasonably numerate person using figures from say Worldometers and the NYT. Vaccination (≥ 1 dose) was carried out to different extents in different countries, including in countries that have fairly similar social conditions, e.g. 78% in Germany, 81% in France, 81% in Britain, 84% in Italy. Does more of it correspond to lower death rates "with" the 2019 SARS variant per 1m population or not? Germany 1946, France 2488, Britain 2935, Italy 3077.
    Presumably your conclusion from this (as you say yourself "stupid") exercise is: countries that had big first waves before vaccines were available (Italy, Britain) had more deaths than countries that didn't (Germany).

    Or what was your point?
    It's not stupid. Death rates "with SARSCoV2" are the only ones I know how to get with the amount of effort I'm able to put in. It's first-order. A second-order consideration would bring in the movements of both rates over time - that's certainly true and not a point that needs to be made insultingly.

    "Do the stats show that vaccination worked?" is not at all a stupid question, much as it may offend some.
    The fact is that vaccination is unable to revive the dead. Sadly.

    So the number you need to look at is death rates after vaccination was introduced.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415

    Leon said:
    Tom Jones with EMF was the peak?
    Surely this was when the world peaked:-

    Sex claim at No 10 lockdown party

    Some of Boris Johnson’s aides are believed to have had sex at 10 Downing Street during a party that took place during lockdown on the eve of the Duke of Edinburgh’s funeral.

    Two couples were seen by numerous witnesses becoming intimate with each other at the gathering of aides and officials, which continued past 4am. One pair were seen “feeling each other up” in a kitchen before retiring to a dark room from which they later emerged “flustered”. The other pair were seen going into an office “with the lights off”.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-partygate-joked-about-lack-of-social-distancing-at-downing-street-lockdown-event-qh5fcw9pz (£££)

    Flustered. That's a good word. Hope it doesn't get cancelled.
    I think 'feeling each other up' is some of the worst writing I've seen since 'The Ice Twins'.
    I love parties like get out of hand like that!

    Is this why Allegro Stratton looked just so bashful denying the lockdown party to camera?

    At least some people in the country thought lockdown and social distancing was mad and not worth complying with, because they come out of this the winners don’t they? Take the different students for example. Those who partied through lockdown like Tories were are now good and healthy and probably in a relationship - those who followed the government message now alone and on citalopram.

    Distance needs to pass before history books can sum the big picture up correctly, but it’s getting there? 1) ring fence the old and vulnerable, everyone else get on with parties and sex 2) don’t let NHS backlog get in such a state that the backlog wipes out as many as those save by lockdowns
    1) Is nonsense though isn't it? Firstly who is vulnerable? I was asked to shield (on the day shielding officially ended) because of leukemia 8 years before (remission for 7 years). I was 48 at the time. Who shields? It would be millions and millions stopping their lives so that the young can be out and about as normal. And besides - the inhumanity of shielding. There are still people who have not left the house for three years. The issue with Covid is that you don't know if you are vulnerable. Lots of people under 50 died, many who considered themselves healthy. They were just unlucky.

    So no, shield the vulnerable is nonsense.
    Don’t be so daft. What exactly are you saying is the working alternative that actually happened.

    what you are calling the alternative to my nonsense was just pretend wasn’t it? Some, mostly the old and vulnerable, did lockdown after lockdown, everyone else didn’t, we now know is the historical truth of what actually happened don’t we? Beauty spots and beaches packed with people, gyms refusing to close, people driving all round the country, people seeing lovers, parties. The only thing that shouldn’t have stopped, health check ups, being beside bedside of dying loved ones and funerals were the things that did!

    Which is why sanctimoniously picking on Boris as the only law stretcher in the land is wrong isn’t it?



    You are trying to rewrite history so actual history gets lost.
    Oh Rabbit!

    Today we are looking through the Boris shaped window.

    The rules may have been misinterpreted and sometimes unclear, but Johnson set the rules. He had absolutely no justification to misunderstand them, or bend them, let alone shatter them into alcohol soaked, unsocially-distanced pieces.
    I don’t know where these threads would be without me explains some home truths to you. And I did it on my phone sat against an ancient wall in a field in five different weather systems!

    https://www.yr.no/en/forecast/daily-table/2-2649668/United Kingdom/England/Farndale

    Wait! Is that snow next week
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,058

    Sean_F said:

    DJ41 said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg sets out to Tom Harwood what Conservatives must do to win over voters under 45

    https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1613479438058131463?s=20&t=pwEQ1cNXg_M83EtleNHyrg

    I'm under 45, Jacob is talking nonsense.

    What we need is to stop giving old people and pensioners a triple lock, we need house prices to come down massively and we need to massively increase housing supply.

    Until then, they're done
    About 2/3 of the electorate are home owners. That's a lot of people to get pissed off if house prices come down massively.
    The figure for actual owners who haven't given moneylenders a charge on their house title is lower than 2/3. Probably most of them would be pissed off, yes, but only because most of them are stupid. This is assuming most weren't planning to sell their homes and go and sleep on park benches somewhere surrounded by piles of luxury goods they bought with the house sale proceeds. A house price crash would deprive many of that option. If you own an asset and its market value falls, you can only sell it at a lower price but it will cost you less to buy a similar one elsewhere. And most of us want to live under a roof. It would be great if house prices fell by 90%. Bring it on.
    It is of course, those with mortgages who would be hit hardest by a house price crash.

    Suppose you pay £200,000 for a house, with a £150,000 mortgage. If house prices drop by say, 30%, you now have a mortgage worth more than your house.
    345,000 homes were repossessed between 1990 and 1995 in the last negative equity crisis
    That cannot be true. According to the younger generation the generation that bought houses then had it all rather easy.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,058

    Yay! Another bung for the oldies. What could possibly go wrong?

    The Times has also been told that the Treasury is discussing giving people tax breaks to go back to work

    Discussion is at an early stage, but there's talk around allowances and even exempting over 50s from income tax


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1613483026721144837

    Are they taking the f*cking piss?

    Probably not, but it is worth it to trigger the right sort of people.

    I think the proposal around pensions for retired NHS workers is more the sort of thing they will be looking at.
  • Options

    Yay! Another bung for the oldies. What could possibly go wrong?

    The Times has also been told that the Treasury is discussing giving people tax breaks to go back to work

    Discussion is at an early stage, but there's talk around allowances and even exempting over 50s from income tax


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1613483026721144837

    Are they taking the f*cking piss?
    Couldnt we just simplify the whole tax system and say that if you don't vote Tory to give 60% of your income to the nearest person who does?
    I have always thought that the tax system should enable those who believe in higher taxationto virtue signal their high tax credentials and volunteer to pay more. I imagine there would be a low take up. Most people who advocate higher taxes are always those who assume it will be others rather than themselves

    The other alternative would be to extend the national lottery so that all tax paid had the possibility of winning a jackpot. That would make tax more fun!
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    Driver said:

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    🔴 Sadiq Khan will suggest ideas including rejoining the single market as he urges a "pragmatic debate" on Europe in a break with the Labour Party's national position.

    Read more on our politics live blog ⬇️
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/01/12/rishi-sunak-news-latest-strikes-starmer-labour-nhs-inflation/ https://twitter.com/TelePolitics/status/1613497636165763073/photo/1

    Great news. For Rishi Sunak.

    Starmer has gone out of his way to avoid the EU debate at the next election. Khan risks undoing most of that good work.
    Maybe not. For certain Labour govern after next election, at which point the pressure from Remainia, that’s about 70% of voters now, will really be on the Labour government for movement. Once they are in power this topic will quickly get hot for Labour to change the inherited Boris deal. Something will have to happen. So An open debate on what to do is helpful rather than not helpful. And even if everyone don’t get what they want from Labours changes to the Brexit they inherit, no free movement for example, they will be assuaged by the compromise I am sure.

    For example, if they moved to a frictionless trade arrangement without free movement, the whole country and so much of our politics will be so satisfied with Starmer’s Labour Brexit, that it will remain the deal for twenty years or more with little pressure to rejoin.

    That’s exactly how it’s going to play out isn’t it?
    How do they get the EU to concede frictionless trade without free movement? If that was available, wouldn't it have happened by now?
    You are just doing as told and not thinking outside box to a bespoke deal are you?

    It doesn’t HAVE to be like this or that. For example.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-text-idUSKCN1GE289

    The Tories in power had their chance to get it right and blew it. Tarif free and frictionless Trade with EU is coming with Starmer’s Labour Government after the next GE. Fact.

    Remember, Brexit means Brexit at the end of the day. It can’t mean anything else can it?
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,242
    Taz said:

    Sean_F said:

    DJ41 said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg sets out to Tom Harwood what Conservatives must do to win over voters under 45

    https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1613479438058131463?s=20&t=pwEQ1cNXg_M83EtleNHyrg

    I'm under 45, Jacob is talking nonsense.

    What we need is to stop giving old people and pensioners a triple lock, we need house prices to come down massively and we need to massively increase housing supply.

    Until then, they're done
    About 2/3 of the electorate are home owners. That's a lot of people to get pissed off if house prices come down massively.
    The figure for actual owners who haven't given moneylenders a charge on their house title is lower than 2/3. Probably most of them would be pissed off, yes, but only because most of them are stupid. This is assuming most weren't planning to sell their homes and go and sleep on park benches somewhere surrounded by piles of luxury goods they bought with the house sale proceeds. A house price crash would deprive many of that option. If you own an asset and its market value falls, you can only sell it at a lower price but it will cost you less to buy a similar one elsewhere. And most of us want to live under a roof. It would be great if house prices fell by 90%. Bring it on.
    It is of course, those with mortgages who would be hit hardest by a house price crash.

    Suppose you pay £200,000 for a house, with a £150,000 mortgage. If house prices drop by say, 30%, you now have a mortgage worth more than your house.
    345,000 homes were repossessed between 1990 and 1995 in the last negative equity crisis
    That cannot be true. According to the younger generation the generation that bought houses then had it all rather easy.
    The Goode Olde Days often failed to be good.

    I bought my first property in 1998 for the same price that it sold for in 1988.

    It is worth thinking that many people will have never experienced houses falling in price in a serious and sustained manner. 2008 caused a bit of halt but that was rapidly made up....

    Given that teenagers are rarely interesting in such things, anyone born after 1980 will be in that group.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    edited January 2023

    Leon said:
    Tom Jones with EMF was the peak?
    Surely this was when the world peaked:-

    Sex claim at No 10 lockdown party

    Some of Boris Johnson’s aides are believed to have had sex at 10 Downing Street during a party that took place during lockdown on the eve of the Duke of Edinburgh’s funeral.

    Two couples were seen by numerous witnesses becoming intimate with each other at the gathering of aides and officials, which continued past 4am. One pair were seen “feeling each other up” in a kitchen before retiring to a dark room from which they later emerged “flustered”. The other pair were seen going into an office “with the lights off”.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-partygate-joked-about-lack-of-social-distancing-at-downing-street-lockdown-event-qh5fcw9pz (£££)

    Flustered. That's a good word. Hope it doesn't get cancelled.
    I think 'feeling each other up' is some of the worst writing I've seen since 'The Ice Twins'.
    I love parties like get out of hand like that!

    Is this why Allegro Stratton looked just so bashful denying the lockdown party to camera?

    At least some people in the country thought lockdown and social distancing was mad and not worth complying with, because they come out of this the winners don’t they? Take the different students for example. Those who partied through lockdown like Tories were are now good and healthy and probably in a relationship - those who followed the government message now alone and on citalopram.

    Distance needs to pass before history books can sum the big picture up correctly, but it’s getting there? 1) ring fence the old and vulnerable, everyone else get on with parties and sex 2) don’t let NHS backlog get in such a state that the backlog wipes out as many as those save by lockdowns
    1) Is nonsense though isn't it? Firstly who is vulnerable? I was asked to shield (on the day shielding officially ended) because of leukemia 8 years before (remission for 7 years). I was 48 at the time. Who shields? It would be millions and millions stopping their lives so that the young can be out and about as normal. And besides - the inhumanity of shielding. There are still people who have not left the house for three years. The issue with Covid is that you don't know if you are vulnerable. Lots of people under 50 died, many who considered themselves healthy. They were just unlucky.

    So no, shield the vulnerable is nonsense.
    Don’t be so daft. What exactly are you saying is the working alternative that actually happened.

    what you are calling the alternative to my nonsense was just pretend wasn’t it? Some, mostly the old and vulnerable, did lockdown after lockdown, everyone else didn’t, we now know is the historical truth of what actually happened don’t we? Beauty spots and beaches packed with people, gyms refusing to close, people driving all round the country, people seeing lovers, parties. The only thing that shouldn’t have stopped, health check ups, being beside bedside of dying loved ones and funerals were the things that did!

    Which is why sanctimoniously picking on Boris as the only law stretcher in the land is wrong isn’t it?



    You are trying to rewrite history so actual history gets lost.
    Oh Rabbit!

    Today we are looking through the Boris shaped window.

    The rules may have been misinterpreted and sometimes unclear, but Johnson set the rules. He had absolutely no justification to misunderstand them, or bend them, let alone shatter them into alcohol soaked, unsocially-distanced pieces.
    I don’t know where these threads would be without me explains some home truths to you. And I did it on my phone sat against an ancient wall in a field in five different weather systems!

    https://www.yr.no/en/forecast/daily-table/2-2649668/United Kingdom/England/Farndale

    Wait! Is that snow next week
    Can’t be lambing lest it’s snowing

    Job done here, I’d better get back to work
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,058

    Taz said:

    Sean_F said:

    DJ41 said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg sets out to Tom Harwood what Conservatives must do to win over voters under 45

    https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1613479438058131463?s=20&t=pwEQ1cNXg_M83EtleNHyrg

    I'm under 45, Jacob is talking nonsense.

    What we need is to stop giving old people and pensioners a triple lock, we need house prices to come down massively and we need to massively increase housing supply.

    Until then, they're done
    About 2/3 of the electorate are home owners. That's a lot of people to get pissed off if house prices come down massively.
    The figure for actual owners who haven't given moneylenders a charge on their house title is lower than 2/3. Probably most of them would be pissed off, yes, but only because most of them are stupid. This is assuming most weren't planning to sell their homes and go and sleep on park benches somewhere surrounded by piles of luxury goods they bought with the house sale proceeds. A house price crash would deprive many of that option. If you own an asset and its market value falls, you can only sell it at a lower price but it will cost you less to buy a similar one elsewhere. And most of us want to live under a roof. It would be great if house prices fell by 90%. Bring it on.
    It is of course, those with mortgages who would be hit hardest by a house price crash.

    Suppose you pay £200,000 for a house, with a £150,000 mortgage. If house prices drop by say, 30%, you now have a mortgage worth more than your house.
    345,000 homes were repossessed between 1990 and 1995 in the last negative equity crisis
    That cannot be true. According to the younger generation the generation that bought houses then had it all rather easy.
    The Goode Olde Days often failed to be good.

    I bought my first property in 1998 for the same price that it sold for in 1988.

    It is worth thinking that many people will have never experienced houses falling in price in a serious and sustained manner. 2008 caused a bit of halt but that was rapidly made up....

    Given that teenagers are rarely interesting in such things, anyone born after 1980 will be in that group.
    True, and not only that they haven't experienced rising interest rates either.

    I agree about the good old days. We tend to remember the good.

    when people say, for instance, how much better TV, Films or Music was in the past they are just remembering the good and forgetting the vast amount of bilge there was.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,242
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Sean_F said:

    DJ41 said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg sets out to Tom Harwood what Conservatives must do to win over voters under 45

    https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1613479438058131463?s=20&t=pwEQ1cNXg_M83EtleNHyrg

    I'm under 45, Jacob is talking nonsense.

    What we need is to stop giving old people and pensioners a triple lock, we need house prices to come down massively and we need to massively increase housing supply.

    Until then, they're done
    About 2/3 of the electorate are home owners. That's a lot of people to get pissed off if house prices come down massively.
    The figure for actual owners who haven't given moneylenders a charge on their house title is lower than 2/3. Probably most of them would be pissed off, yes, but only because most of them are stupid. This is assuming most weren't planning to sell their homes and go and sleep on park benches somewhere surrounded by piles of luxury goods they bought with the house sale proceeds. A house price crash would deprive many of that option. If you own an asset and its market value falls, you can only sell it at a lower price but it will cost you less to buy a similar one elsewhere. And most of us want to live under a roof. It would be great if house prices fell by 90%. Bring it on.
    It is of course, those with mortgages who would be hit hardest by a house price crash.

    Suppose you pay £200,000 for a house, with a £150,000 mortgage. If house prices drop by say, 30%, you now have a mortgage worth more than your house.
    345,000 homes were repossessed between 1990 and 1995 in the last negative equity crisis
    That cannot be true. According to the younger generation the generation that bought houses then had it all rather easy.
    The Goode Olde Days often failed to be good.

    I bought my first property in 1998 for the same price that it sold for in 1988.

    It is worth thinking that many people will have never experienced houses falling in price in a serious and sustained manner. 2008 caused a bit of halt but that was rapidly made up....

    Given that teenagers are rarely interesting in such things, anyone born after 1980 will be in that group.
    True, and not only that they haven't experienced rising interest rates either.

    I agree about the good old days. We tend to remember the good.

    when people say, for instance, how much better TV, Films or Music was in the past they are just remembering the good and forgetting the vast amount of bilge there was.
    Inflation as a thing was a shock to many....

    More the paucity of content - you had to wait and hope you didn't miss the good programs on TV, for example. Repeats were rarer.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,932

    Taz said:

    Sean_F said:

    DJ41 said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg sets out to Tom Harwood what Conservatives must do to win over voters under 45

    https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1613479438058131463?s=20&t=pwEQ1cNXg_M83EtleNHyrg

    I'm under 45, Jacob is talking nonsense.

    What we need is to stop giving old people and pensioners a triple lock, we need house prices to come down massively and we need to massively increase housing supply.

    Until then, they're done
    About 2/3 of the electorate are home owners. That's a lot of people to get pissed off if house prices come down massively.
    The figure for actual owners who haven't given moneylenders a charge on their house title is lower than 2/3. Probably most of them would be pissed off, yes, but only because most of them are stupid. This is assuming most weren't planning to sell their homes and go and sleep on park benches somewhere surrounded by piles of luxury goods they bought with the house sale proceeds. A house price crash would deprive many of that option. If you own an asset and its market value falls, you can only sell it at a lower price but it will cost you less to buy a similar one elsewhere. And most of us want to live under a roof. It would be great if house prices fell by 90%. Bring it on.
    It is of course, those with mortgages who would be hit hardest by a house price crash.

    Suppose you pay £200,000 for a house, with a £150,000 mortgage. If house prices drop by say, 30%, you now have a mortgage worth more than your house.
    345,000 homes were repossessed between 1990 and 1995 in the last negative equity crisis
    That cannot be true. According to the younger generation the generation that bought houses then had it all rather easy.
    The Goode Olde Days often failed to be good.

    I bought my first property in 1998 for the same price that it sold for in 1988.

    It is worth thinking that many people will have never experienced houses falling in price in a serious and sustained manner. 2008 caused a bit of halt but that was rapidly made up....

    Given that teenagers are rarely interesting in such things, anyone born after 1980 will be in that group.
    Depends where you live. Round here house prices didn't change in nominal terms from 2004 through to 2020-21.

    Because enough houses were built to match demand so the price of old stock remained relatively static.
  • Options
    DriverDriver Posts: 4,522

    Yay! Another bung for the oldies. What could possibly go wrong?

    The Times has also been told that the Treasury is discussing giving people tax breaks to go back to work

    Discussion is at an early stage, but there's talk around allowances and even exempting over 50s from income tax


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1613483026721144837

    Are they taking the f*cking piss?
    Couldnt we just simplify the whole tax system and say that if you don't vote Tory to give 60% of your income to the nearest person who does?
    I have always thought that the tax system should enable those who believe in higher taxationto virtue signal their high tax credentials and volunteer to pay more. I imagine there would be a low take up. Most people who advocate higher taxes are always those who assume it will be others rather than themselves.
    This is already an option. It does indeed have a very low takeup.
  • Options
    DriverDriver Posts: 4,522

    Driver said:

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    🔴 Sadiq Khan will suggest ideas including rejoining the single market as he urges a "pragmatic debate" on Europe in a break with the Labour Party's national position.

    Read more on our politics live blog ⬇️
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/01/12/rishi-sunak-news-latest-strikes-starmer-labour-nhs-inflation/ https://twitter.com/TelePolitics/status/1613497636165763073/photo/1

    Great news. For Rishi Sunak.

    Starmer has gone out of his way to avoid the EU debate at the next election. Khan risks undoing most of that good work.
    Maybe not. For certain Labour govern after next election, at which point the pressure from Remainia, that’s about 70% of voters now, will really be on the Labour government for movement. Once they are in power this topic will quickly get hot for Labour to change the inherited Boris deal. Something will have to happen. So An open debate on what to do is helpful rather than not helpful. And even if everyone don’t get what they want from Labours changes to the Brexit they inherit, no free movement for example, they will be assuaged by the compromise I am sure.

    For example, if they moved to a frictionless trade arrangement without free movement, the whole country and so much of our politics will be so satisfied with Starmer’s Labour Brexit, that it will remain the deal for twenty years or more with little pressure to rejoin.

    That’s exactly how it’s going to play out isn’t it?
    How do they get the EU to concede frictionless trade without free movement? If that was available, wouldn't it have happened by now?
    You are just doing as told and not thinking outside box to a bespoke deal are you?
    I'm not, but our mostly europhile civil servant negotiators are, and I can't see a change of government changing that.

    You do understand how insistent the EU has been on the four freedoms being invivisible (and why), right?
  • Options
    PhilPhil Posts: 1,929
    edited January 2023
    DJ41 said:

    Leon said:
    Tom Jones with EMF was the peak?
    Surely this was when the world peaked:-

    Sex claim at No 10 lockdown party

    Some of Boris Johnson’s aides are believed to have had sex at 10 Downing Street during a party that took place during lockdown on the eve of the Duke of Edinburgh’s funeral.

    Two couples were seen by numerous witnesses becoming intimate with each other at the gathering of aides and officials, which continued past 4am. One pair were seen “feeling each other up” in a kitchen before retiring to a dark room from which they later emerged “flustered”. The other pair were seen going into an office “with the lights off”.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-partygate-joked-about-lack-of-social-distancing-at-downing-street-lockdown-event-qh5fcw9pz (£££)

    Flustered. That's a good word. Hope it doesn't get cancelled.
    I think 'feeling each other up' is some of the worst writing I've seen since 'The Ice Twins'.
    I love parties like get out of hand like that!

    Is this why Allegro Stratton looked just so bashful denying the lockdown party to camera?

    At least some people in the country thought lockdown and social distancing was mad and not worth complying with, because they come out of this the winners don’t they? Take the different students for example. Those who partied through lockdown like Tories were are now good and healthy and probably in a relationship - those who followed the government message now alone and on citalopram.

    Distance needs to pass before history books can sum the big picture up correctly, but it’s getting there? 1) ring fence the old and vulnerable, everyone else get on with parties and sex 2) don’t let NHS backlog get in such a state that the backlog wipes out as many as those save by lockdowns
    Plotting death rates "with SARSCoV2" (admittedly a stupid statistic but widely used) against vaccination rates, country by country and region by region, can be done right now, by any reasonably numerate person using figures from say Worldometers and the NYT. Vaccination (≥ 1 dose) was carried out to different extents in different countries, including in countries that have fairly similar social conditions, e.g. 78% in Germany, 81% in France, 81% in Britain, 84% in Italy. Does more of it correspond to lower death rates "with" the 2019 SARS variant per 1m population or not? Germany 1946, France 2488, Britain 2935, Italy 3077.
    COVID19 preferentially kills the old & vaccination is less effective in the old, so a high vax rate, older population country will have a higher death rate than a low vax rate young county. Unless you correct for the age profiles of the various countries you risk reaching a completely erroneous conclusion from the raw data of vaccination & death rates.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415

    Hey @MoonRabbit you are back! :)

    I haven’t been away! Well technically now on holiday. And before Christmas posted little because before Christmas is very busy time, and I do voluntary work now I didn’t do last year. And Christmas at GF parents was okay, though they don’t even have Netflix so I watched glass onion on my iPad - first three quarters was great fun but I didn’t like ending at all - but there’s some great walks in Hampshire countryside and two good pubs which made up for lack of TV. And it was agreed ages ago we would go there for Christmas as we haven’t yet as a couple. Though she wouldn’t take my main present from her to unwrap in front her parents, claiming it would be too heavy and take up too much room in the car. Hm. 🤔

    https://motorbunny.com/products/motorbunny-buck

    I asked sexy Santa for either buck or a unicorn, and I got the buck
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,848
    edited January 2023

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    🔴 Sadiq Khan will suggest ideas including rejoining the single market as he urges a "pragmatic debate" on Europe in a break with the Labour Party's national position.

    Read more on our politics live blog ⬇️
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/01/12/rishi-sunak-news-latest-strikes-starmer-labour-nhs-inflation/ https://twitter.com/TelePolitics/status/1613497636165763073/photo/1

    Great news. For Rishi Sunak.

    Starmer has gone out of his way to avoid the EU debate at the next election. Khan risks undoing most of that good work.
    Maybe not. For certain Labour govern after next election, at which point the pressure from Remainia, that’s about 70% of voters now, will really be on the Labour government for movement. Once they are in power this topic will quickly get hot for Labour to change the inherited Boris deal. Something will have to happen. So An open debate on what to do is helpful rather than not helpful. And even if everyone don’t get what they want from Labours changes to the Brexit they inherit, no free movement for example, they will be assuaged by the compromise I am sure.

    For example, if they moved to a frictionless trade arrangement without free movement, the whole country and so much of our politics will be so satisfied with Starmer’s Labour Brexit, that it will remain the deal for twenty years or more with little pressure to rejoin.

    That’s exactly how it’s going to play out isn’t it?
    Starmer is right though, that any suggestion of the re-introduction of FoM, in particular, will go down like a bucket of cold sick in marginal seats, even if Sadiq Khan has support for it in London.

    The EU is working on ‘frictionless electronic borders’, for goods, with other countries anyway, and that will probably be the end state. There’s been movement on this in the past few days, with the EU accepting the UK proposed system with regard to GB/NI/RoI traffic. Any further reduction in friction would require the Customs Union, which isn’t an option outside of the EU, requires dynamic regulatory alighment ,and would revoke UK trade deals with other bodies.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    🔴 Sadiq Khan will suggest ideas including rejoining the single market as he urges a "pragmatic debate" on Europe in a break with the Labour Party's national position.

    Read more on our politics live blog ⬇️
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/01/12/rishi-sunak-news-latest-strikes-starmer-labour-nhs-inflation/ https://twitter.com/TelePolitics/status/1613497636165763073/photo/1

    Great news. For Rishi Sunak.

    Starmer has gone out of his way to avoid the EU debate at the next election. Khan risks undoing most of that good work.
    Maybe not. For certain Labour govern after next election, at which point the pressure from Remainia, that’s about 70% of voters now, will really be on the Labour government for movement. Once they are in power this topic will quickly get hot for Labour to change the inherited Boris deal. Something will have to happen. So An open debate on what to do is helpful rather than not helpful. And even if everyone don’t get what they want from Labours changes to the Brexit they inherit, no free movement for example, they will be assuaged by the compromise I am sure.

    For example, if they moved to a frictionless trade arrangement without free movement, the whole country and so much of our politics will be so satisfied with Starmer’s Labour Brexit, that it will remain the deal for twenty years or more with little pressure to rejoin.

    That’s exactly how it’s going to play out isn’t it?
    How do they get the EU to concede frictionless trade without free movement? If that was available, wouldn't it have happened by now?
    You are just doing as told and not thinking outside box to a bespoke deal are you?
    I'm not, but our mostly europhile civil servant negotiators are, and I can't see a change of government changing that.

    You do understand how insistent the EU has been on the four freedoms being invivisible (and why), right?
    Glancing at the facts in front of us, EU doing hoops to compromise on NI - they are as mad keen for a more frictionless arrangement now as we should be?
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,130
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Sean_F said:

    DJ41 said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg sets out to Tom Harwood what Conservatives must do to win over voters under 45

    https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1613479438058131463?s=20&t=pwEQ1cNXg_M83EtleNHyrg

    I'm under 45, Jacob is talking nonsense.

    What we need is to stop giving old people and pensioners a triple lock, we need house prices to come down massively and we need to massively increase housing supply.

    Until then, they're done
    About 2/3 of the electorate are home owners. That's a lot of people to get pissed off if house prices come down massively.
    The figure for actual owners who haven't given moneylenders a charge on their house title is lower than 2/3. Probably most of them would be pissed off, yes, but only because most of them are stupid. This is assuming most weren't planning to sell their homes and go and sleep on park benches somewhere surrounded by piles of luxury goods they bought with the house sale proceeds. A house price crash would deprive many of that option. If you own an asset and its market value falls, you can only sell it at a lower price but it will cost you less to buy a similar one elsewhere. And most of us want to live under a roof. It would be great if house prices fell by 90%. Bring it on.
    It is of course, those with mortgages who would be hit hardest by a house price crash.

    Suppose you pay £200,000 for a house, with a £150,000 mortgage. If house prices drop by say, 30%, you now have a mortgage worth more than your house.
    345,000 homes were repossessed between 1990 and 1995 in the last negative equity crisis
    That cannot be true. According to the younger generation the generation that bought houses then had it all rather easy.
    The Goode Olde Days often failed to be good.

    I bought my first property in 1998 for the same price that it sold for in 1988.

    It is worth thinking that many people will have never experienced houses falling in price in a serious and sustained manner. 2008 caused a bit of halt but that was rapidly made up....

    Given that teenagers are rarely interesting in such things, anyone born after 1980 will be in that group.
    True, and not only that they haven't experienced rising interest rates either.

    I agree about the good old days. We tend to remember the good.

    when people say, for instance, how much better TV, Films or Music was in the past they are just remembering the good and forgetting the vast amount of bilge there was.
    Plus channel hopping was BBC1. BBC2 and ITV and that was it. its weird - I live through my life but I struggle to remember what it was really like. Take the weather. People like to say that winter has changed - its not really for me. SW Wilts has delivered as much snow and cold weather in the last 13 years that it did when i was growing up in the 80's and 90's. I don't recall it ever raining in the summer holidays. But it did.
  • Options

    Leon said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    The word “field” has been cancelled. I shit you not


    Wait until they hear about Killing Fields.....named after Wilhelm Killing.

    Another cracking article here....

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/damar-hamlins-collapse-highlights-the-violence-black-men-experience-in-football/

    Zero facts, just opinion. Exactly the same point could be made about sports like Ice Hockey, which is overwhelmingly white (and on average don't get paid as much). If you want to argue college sports are unfair because the athletes aren't fairly remunerated, that is one thing (and true across all the sports), but NFL is racist because too many black people are good at it.
    The Fields Medal is surely pretty racist too - lots of white winners? All adds to the evidence against 'fields'.
    It’s been pointed out on Twitter that if you can cancel “field” then almost any word is liable for cancellation. “Work” for a start. Slaves were sent to WORK in FIELDS

    Also “sent”, “were” and “in”
    We should start a competiton for creating the longest possible non-woke sentence. I'll start.

    Ectoplasmic artichokes micturate phonetically.

    Your go.
    Sorry Peter. Phonetics are racist (apparently)

    I can't find the original article but Yachting weekly had a piece on this all the way back in 2004. It was quoted on one of the yachting forums.

    "Fears that the recommended VHF radio phonetic alphabet could be outdated, or even racist, are being examined by the government’s Department for Transport."

    More recently - and probably more fairly - the German government looked at changing their phonetic alphabet because so much of it was created in the Nazi era.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/03/zacharias-not-zeppelin-germany-to-scrap-nazi-era-phonetic-table
    Shows how difficult the task is.

    I like the word ephemeral but it is hard to match it with anything than cannot possibly imply prejudiced thinking. 'Matlocks' perhaps, or would this cause protests in parts of Derbyshire?
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,242
    Driver said:

    Yay! Another bung for the oldies. What could possibly go wrong?

    The Times has also been told that the Treasury is discussing giving people tax breaks to go back to work

    Discussion is at an early stage, but there's talk around allowances and even exempting over 50s from income tax


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1613483026721144837

    Are they taking the f*cking piss?
    Couldnt we just simplify the whole tax system and say that if you don't vote Tory to give 60% of your income to the nearest person who does?
    I have always thought that the tax system should enable those who believe in higher taxationto virtue signal their high tax credentials and volunteer to pay more. I imagine there would be a low take up. Most people who advocate higher taxes are always those who assume it will be others rather than themselves.
    This is already an option. It does indeed have a very low takeup.
    There was a suggestion of tax, in the Economist, a long while back. Each pound in tax you pay is a ticket (in effect) to a lottery. The prize is not paying tax for x years.

    They did some polling/focus group stuff and it suggested that it would easily pay for itself in increase tax revenue.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,130
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    🔴 Sadiq Khan will suggest ideas including rejoining the single market as he urges a "pragmatic debate" on Europe in a break with the Labour Party's national position.

    Read more on our politics live blog ⬇️
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/01/12/rishi-sunak-news-latest-strikes-starmer-labour-nhs-inflation/ https://twitter.com/TelePolitics/status/1613497636165763073/photo/1

    Great news. For Rishi Sunak.

    Starmer has gone out of his way to avoid the EU debate at the next election. Khan risks undoing most of that good work.
    Maybe not. For certain Labour govern after next election, at which point the pressure from Remainia, that’s about 70% of voters now, will really be on the Labour government for movement. Once they are in power this topic will quickly get hot for Labour to change the inherited Boris deal. Something will have to happen. So An open debate on what to do is helpful rather than not helpful. And even if everyone don’t get what they want from Labours changes to the Brexit they inherit, no free movement for example, they will be assuaged by the compromise I am sure.

    For example, if they moved to a frictionless trade arrangement without free movement, the whole country and so much of our politics will be so satisfied with Starmer’s Labour Brexit, that it will remain the deal for twenty years or more with little pressure to rejoin.

    That’s exactly how it’s going to play out isn’t it?
    Starmer is right though, that any suggestion of the re-introduction of FoM, in particular, will go down like a bucket of cold sick in marginal seats, even if Sadiq Khan has support for it in London.

    The EU is working on ‘frictionless electronic borders’, for goods, with other countries anyway, and that will probably be the end state. There’s been movement on this in the past few days, with the EU accepting the UK proposed system with regard to GB/NI/RoI traffic. Any further reduction in friction would require the Customs Union, which isn’t an option outside of the EU, requires dynamic regulatory alighment ,and would revoke UK trade deals with other bodies.
    The most frustrating part of all this is that this is the obvious solution to the border problems. Those of the remain persuasion will hate it but there has been some level of 'punishment beatings' around the whole affair. Brexitted Britain cannot be seen to be in a better place than being part of the EU. Well now that thats been shown, how about helping all concerned (in and out) and getting on with using technology in the 21st century. If amazon can tell me where a package is, why can't a haulier?
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,932

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Sean_F said:

    DJ41 said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg sets out to Tom Harwood what Conservatives must do to win over voters under 45

    https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1613479438058131463?s=20&t=pwEQ1cNXg_M83EtleNHyrg

    I'm under 45, Jacob is talking nonsense.

    What we need is to stop giving old people and pensioners a triple lock, we need house prices to come down massively and we need to massively increase housing supply.

    Until then, they're done
    About 2/3 of the electorate are home owners. That's a lot of people to get pissed off if house prices come down massively.
    The figure for actual owners who haven't given moneylenders a charge on their house title is lower than 2/3. Probably most of them would be pissed off, yes, but only because most of them are stupid. This is assuming most weren't planning to sell their homes and go and sleep on park benches somewhere surrounded by piles of luxury goods they bought with the house sale proceeds. A house price crash would deprive many of that option. If you own an asset and its market value falls, you can only sell it at a lower price but it will cost you less to buy a similar one elsewhere. And most of us want to live under a roof. It would be great if house prices fell by 90%. Bring it on.
    It is of course, those with mortgages who would be hit hardest by a house price crash.

    Suppose you pay £200,000 for a house, with a £150,000 mortgage. If house prices drop by say, 30%, you now have a mortgage worth more than your house.
    345,000 homes were repossessed between 1990 and 1995 in the last negative equity crisis
    That cannot be true. According to the younger generation the generation that bought houses then had it all rather easy.
    The Goode Olde Days often failed to be good.

    I bought my first property in 1998 for the same price that it sold for in 1988.

    It is worth thinking that many people will have never experienced houses falling in price in a serious and sustained manner. 2008 caused a bit of halt but that was rapidly made up....

    Given that teenagers are rarely interesting in such things, anyone born after 1980 will be in that group.
    True, and not only that they haven't experienced rising interest rates either.

    I agree about the good old days. We tend to remember the good.

    when people say, for instance, how much better TV, Films or Music was in the past they are just remembering the good and forgetting the vast amount of bilge there was.
    Plus channel hopping was BBC1. BBC2 and ITV and that was it. its weird - I live through my life but I struggle to remember what it was really like. Take the weather. People like to say that winter has changed - its not really for me. SW Wilts has delivered as much snow and cold weather in the last 13 years that it did when i was growing up in the 80's and 90's. I don't recall it ever raining in the summer holidays. But it did.
    I think weather has changed since the 80s and 90s. I don't remember rain being as heavy as it can be nowadays is - round here we see roads getting flooding 3-4 times a year when it used to be say once a year max.
  • Options
    Disgusting that people want Johnson back.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHIJyaENFMk

    Joe said it best, this man must never be allowed in office again.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,378

    Leon said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    The word “field” has been cancelled. I shit you not


    Wait until they hear about Killing Fields.....named after Wilhelm Killing.

    Another cracking article here....

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/damar-hamlins-collapse-highlights-the-violence-black-men-experience-in-football/

    Zero facts, just opinion. Exactly the same point could be made about sports like Ice Hockey, which is overwhelmingly white (and on average don't get paid as much). If you want to argue college sports are unfair because the athletes aren't fairly remunerated, that is one thing (and true across all the sports), but NFL is racist because too many black people are good at it.
    The Fields Medal is surely pretty racist too - lots of white winners? All adds to the evidence against 'fields'.
    It’s been pointed out on Twitter that if you can cancel “field” then almost any word is liable for cancellation. “Work” for a start. Slaves were sent to WORK in FIELDS

    Also “sent”, “were” and “in”
    We should start a competiton for creating the longest possible non-woke sentence. I'll start.

    Ectoplasmic artichokes micturate phonetically.

    Your go.
    Sorry Peter. Phonetics are racist (apparently)

    I can't find the original article but Yachting weekly had a piece on this all the way back in 2004. It was quoted on one of the yachting forums.

    "Fears that the recommended VHF radio phonetic alphabet could be outdated, or even racist, are being examined by the government’s Department for Transport."

    More recently - and probably more fairly - the German government looked at changing their phonetic alphabet because so much of it was created in the Nazi era.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/03/zacharias-not-zeppelin-germany-to-scrap-nazi-era-phonetic-table
    Shows how difficult the task is.

    I like the word ephemeral but it is hard to match it with anything than cannot possibly imply prejudiced thinking. 'Matlocks' perhaps, or would this cause protests in parts of Derbyshire?
    Ephemeral ephemera.
This discussion has been closed.