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Starmer remains solid 71% favourite to be PM after the election – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited January 15 in General
imageStarmer remains solid 71% favourite to be PM after the election – politicalbetting.com

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  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 4,939
    1st, like Starmer?
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 4,939
    edited January 12
    I'm not in this market and not hugely tempted. The days of happy trading on Starmer as the markets got overexcited over Johnson's latest scandal are, alas, behind us :disappointed:
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,947
    edited January 12
    No shit Sherlock. The Tories become ever more toxic and will be less and less controllable. I expect a 1997 event or worse.
    Those who clap their hands with joy at the thought of such a result will probably feel the same as most do now and after 5 yrs of new new Labour. Its a smoke and mirrors job. They are all as bad as each other.
  • 30 point Labour lead. By July.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 11,240

    30 point Labour lead. By July.

    What vote share lead do you reckon at the election?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 8,345

    30 point Labour lead. By July.

    I wonder what the May locals will do to the polls. It could be wishful thinking on my part, but this is the (possibly only) opportunity for the LDs to get out of the doldrums. It could see a big boost for them if they do particularly well. That would be at the expense of the Conservatives, but also Labour if they are seen as an alternative in the LD/Con areas where Lab will be also doing quite well in the polls currently.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 3,664
    kjh said:

    30 point Labour lead. By July.

    I wonder what the May locals will do to the polls. It could be wishful thinking on my part, but this is the (possibly only) opportunity for the LDs to get out of the doldrums. It could see a big boost for them if they do particularly well. That would be at the expense of the Conservatives, but also Labour if they are seen as an alternative in the LD/Con areas where Lab will be also doing quite well in the polls currently.
    I agree. Local elections usually give the LDs a poll boost.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,637
    The word “field” has been cancelled. I shit you not


  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,949
    Leon said:
    Tom Jones with EMF was the peak?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 73,473
    edited January 12
    Leon said:

    The word “field” has been cancelled. I shit you not


    Wait until they hear about Killing Fields.....named after Wilhelm Killing.

    Another cracking article here....

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/damar-hamlins-collapse-highlights-the-violence-black-men-experience-in-football/

    Zero facts, just opinion. Exactly the same point could be made about sports like Ice Hockey, which is overwhelmingly white (and on average don't get paid as much). If you want to argue college sports are unfair because the athletes aren't fairly remunerated, that is one thing (and true across all the sports), but NFL is racist because too many black people are good at it.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,949

    Leon said:
    Tom Jones with EMF was the peak?
    Surely this was when the world peaked:-

    Sex claim at No 10 lockdown party

    Some of Boris Johnson’s aides are believed to have had sex at 10 Downing Street during a party that took place during lockdown on the eve of the Duke of Edinburgh’s funeral.

    Two couples were seen by numerous witnesses becoming intimate with each other at the gathering of aides and officials, which continued past 4am. One pair were seen “feeling each other up” in a kitchen before retiring to a dark room from which they later emerged “flustered”. The other pair were seen going into an office “with the lights off”.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-partygate-joked-about-lack-of-social-distancing-at-downing-street-lockdown-event-qh5fcw9pz (£££)

    Flustered. That's a good word. Hope it doesn't get cancelled.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 4,052
    01st February is a dangerous day for this Conservative Government.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 4,939
    Leon said:

    The word “field” has been cancelled. I shit you not


    That's a bit left field!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,423
    edited January 12
    Leon — I was wondering whether the photo you posted on the previous thread is the Banyan Tree hotel.
  • Heathener said:

    01st February is a dangerous day for this Conservative Government.

    Hi mate, what is happening that day?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,506
    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    The word “field” has been cancelled. I shit you not


    That's a bit left field!
    The word has been put out to pasture.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,637
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon — I was wondering whether the photo you posted on the previous thread is the Banyan Tree hotel.

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon — I was wondering whether the photo you posted on the previous thread is the Banyan Tree hotel.

    It’s not. I’ll PM you
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,506

    Leon said:
    Tom Jones with EMF was the peak?
    Surely this was when the world peaked:-

    Sex claim at No 10 lockdown party

    Some of Boris Johnson’s aides are believed to have had sex at 10 Downing Street during a party that took place during lockdown on the eve of the Duke of Edinburgh’s funeral.

    Two couples were seen by numerous witnesses becoming intimate with each other at the gathering of aides and officials, which continued past 4am. One pair were seen “feeling each other up” in a kitchen before retiring to a dark room from which they later emerged “flustered”. The other pair were seen going into an office “with the lights off”.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-partygate-joked-about-lack-of-social-distancing-at-downing-street-lockdown-event-qh5fcw9pz (£££)

    Flustered. That's a good word. Hope it doesn't get cancelled.
    The fact that these new party revelations are being deployed seems to indicate that there is growing disquiet in Camp Sunak.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 73,473
    tlg86 said:

    Heathener said:

    01st February is a dangerous day for this Conservative Government.

    If 100,000 civil servants don't turn up to work and no one notices, is it still a strike?
    Is this one of those philosophy 101 questions, like if a tree falls in a wood does it make a sound?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,949

    Leon said:
    Tom Jones with EMF was the peak?
    Surely this was when the world peaked:-

    Sex claim at No 10 lockdown party

    Some of Boris Johnson’s aides are believed to have had sex at 10 Downing Street during a party that took place during lockdown on the eve of the Duke of Edinburgh’s funeral.

    Two couples were seen by numerous witnesses becoming intimate with each other at the gathering of aides and officials, which continued past 4am. One pair were seen “feeling each other up” in a kitchen before retiring to a dark room from which they later emerged “flustered”. The other pair were seen going into an office “with the lights off”.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-partygate-joked-about-lack-of-social-distancing-at-downing-street-lockdown-event-qh5fcw9pz (£££)

    Flustered. That's a good word. Hope it doesn't get cancelled.
    The fact that these new party revelations are being deployed seems to indicate that there is growing disquiet in Camp Sunak.
    Growing disquiet in Camp Anyone-But-Boris, perhaps, following news of moves to reinstate Big Dog.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,637

    Leon said:

    The word “field” has been cancelled. I shit you not


    Wait until they hear about Killing Fields.....named after Wilhelm Killing.

    Another cracking article here....

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/damar-hamlins-collapse-highlights-the-violence-black-men-experience-in-football/

    Zero facts, just opinion. Exactly the same point could be made about sports like Ice Hockey, which is overwhelmingly white (and on average don't get paid as much). If you want to argue college sports are unfair because the athletes aren't fairly remunerated, that is one thing (and true across all the sports), but NFL is racist because too many black people are good at it.
    There’s a guy on Twitter who is using ChatGPT to generate garbage Woke articles exactly like this. “So-and-so and such-and-such highlights why X is racist”

    They are pitifully formulaic, they are meaningless drivel, and - quite amusingly - ChatGPT actually writes them BETTER
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 42,503
    tlg86 said:

    Heathener said:

    01st February is a dangerous day for this Conservative Government.

    If 100,000 civil servants don't turn up to work and no one notices, is it still a strike?
    If they don’t turn up for a week, does the government save 2% of their annual costs as no-one notices?
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 4,939

    Leon said:

    The word “field” has been cancelled. I shit you not


    Wait until they hear about Killing Fields.....named after Wilhelm Killing.

    Another cracking article here....

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/damar-hamlins-collapse-highlights-the-violence-black-men-experience-in-football/

    Zero facts, just opinion. Exactly the same point could be made about sports like Ice Hockey, which is overwhelmingly white (and on average don't get paid as much). If you want to argue college sports are unfair because the athletes aren't fairly remunerated, that is one thing (and true across all the sports), but NFL is racist because too many black people are good at it.
    The Fields Medal is surely pretty racist too - lots of white winners? All adds to the evidence against 'fields'.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 42,503
    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    The word “field” has been cancelled. I shit you not


    Wait until they hear about Killing Fields.....named after Wilhelm Killing.

    Another cracking article here....

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/damar-hamlins-collapse-highlights-the-violence-black-men-experience-in-football/

    Zero facts, just opinion. Exactly the same point could be made about sports like Ice Hockey, which is overwhelmingly white (and on average don't get paid as much). If you want to argue college sports are unfair because the athletes aren't fairly remunerated, that is one thing (and true across all the sports), but NFL is racist because too many black people are good at it.
    The Fields Medal is surely pretty racist too - lots of white winners? All adds to the evidence against 'fields'.
    Titania McGrath has been documenting ‘things that are now racist’ for years.
    https://twitter.com/TitaniaMcGrath/status/1281023987242487808
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 11,576

    Leon said:
    Tom Jones with EMF was the peak?
    Surely this was when the world peaked:-

    Sex claim at No 10 lockdown party

    Some of Boris Johnson’s aides are believed to have had sex at 10 Downing Street during a party that took place during lockdown on the eve of the Duke of Edinburgh’s funeral.

    Two couples were seen by numerous witnesses becoming intimate with each other at the gathering of aides and officials, which continued past 4am. One pair were seen “feeling each other up” in a kitchen before retiring to a dark room from which they later emerged “flustered”. The other pair were seen going into an office “with the lights off”.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-partygate-joked-about-lack-of-social-distancing-at-downing-street-lockdown-event-qh5fcw9pz (£££)

    Flustered. That's a good word. Hope it doesn't get cancelled.
    I think 'feeling each other up' is some of the worst writing I've seen since 'The Ice Twins'.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 11,576
    Heathener said:

    01st February is a dangerous day for this Conservative Government.

    What an odd way to write the 1st of February.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,506

    Leon said:
    Tom Jones with EMF was the peak?
    Surely this was when the world peaked:-

    Sex claim at No 10 lockdown party

    Some of Boris Johnson’s aides are believed to have had sex at 10 Downing Street during a party that took place during lockdown on the eve of the Duke of Edinburgh’s funeral.

    Two couples were seen by numerous witnesses becoming intimate with each other at the gathering of aides and officials, which continued past 4am. One pair were seen “feeling each other up” in a kitchen before retiring to a dark room from which they later emerged “flustered”. The other pair were seen going into an office “with the lights off”.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-partygate-joked-about-lack-of-social-distancing-at-downing-street-lockdown-event-qh5fcw9pz (£££)

    Flustered. That's a good word. Hope it doesn't get cancelled.
    The fact that these new party revelations are being deployed seems to indicate that there is growing disquiet in Camp Sunak.
    Growing disquiet in Camp Anyone-But-Boris, perhaps, following news of moves to reinstate Big Dog.
    Hopefully for them they have more than office rumpy pumpy to impede his Royal progress.

    By the way, I don't support Borises return, just think he'd be marginally better than the current Government. As would a horde of visigoths or a plague of newts.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,637
    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    The word “field” has been cancelled. I shit you not


    Wait until they hear about Killing Fields.....named after Wilhelm Killing.

    Another cracking article here....

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/damar-hamlins-collapse-highlights-the-violence-black-men-experience-in-football/

    Zero facts, just opinion. Exactly the same point could be made about sports like Ice Hockey, which is overwhelmingly white (and on average don't get paid as much). If you want to argue college sports are unfair because the athletes aren't fairly remunerated, that is one thing (and true across all the sports), but NFL is racist because too many black people are good at it.
    The Fields Medal is surely pretty racist too - lots of white winners? All adds to the evidence against 'fields'.
    It’s been pointed out on Twitter that if you can cancel “field” then almost any word is liable for cancellation. “Work” for a start. Slaves were sent to WORK in FIELDS

    Also “sent”, “were” and “in”
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 11,576

    Leon said:
    Tom Jones with EMF was the peak?
    Surely this was when the world peaked:-

    Sex claim at No 10 lockdown party

    Some of Boris Johnson’s aides are believed to have had sex at 10 Downing Street during a party that took place during lockdown on the eve of the Duke of Edinburgh’s funeral.

    Two couples were seen by numerous witnesses becoming intimate with each other at the gathering of aides and officials, which continued past 4am. One pair were seen “feeling each other up” in a kitchen before retiring to a dark room from which they later emerged “flustered”. The other pair were seen going into an office “with the lights off”.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-partygate-joked-about-lack-of-social-distancing-at-downing-street-lockdown-event-qh5fcw9pz (£££)

    Flustered. That's a good word. Hope it doesn't get cancelled.
    The fact that these new party revelations are being deployed seems to indicate that there is growing disquiet in Camp Sunak.
    Are you suggesting its the Sunak camp putting them out to nix Johnson? Surely its also damaging the Tory party at the same time?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,316

    Leon said:
    Tom Jones with EMF was the peak?
    Surely this was when the world peaked:-

    Sex claim at No 10 lockdown party

    Some of Boris Johnson’s aides are believed to have had sex at 10 Downing Street during a party that took place during lockdown on the eve of the Duke of Edinburgh’s funeral.

    Two couples were seen by numerous witnesses becoming intimate with each other at the gathering of aides and officials, which continued past 4am. One pair were seen “feeling each other up” in a kitchen before retiring to a dark room from which they later emerged “flustered”. The other pair were seen going into an office “with the lights off”.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-partygate-joked-about-lack-of-social-distancing-at-downing-street-lockdown-event-qh5fcw9pz (£££)

    Flustered. That's a good word. Hope it doesn't get cancelled.
    The fact that these new party revelations are being deployed seems to indicate that there is growing disquiet in Camp Sunak.
    Growing disquiet in Camp Anyone-But-Boris, perhaps, following news of moves to reinstate Big Dog.
    Hopefully for them they have more than office rumpy pumpy to impede his Royal progress.

    By the way, I don't support Borises return, just think he'd be marginally better than the current Government. As would a horde of visigoths or a plague of newts.
    You'll be voting Labour, then ? 😏
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 73,473
    edited January 12
    Leon said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    The word “field” has been cancelled. I shit you not


    Wait until they hear about Killing Fields.....named after Wilhelm Killing.

    Another cracking article here....

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/damar-hamlins-collapse-highlights-the-violence-black-men-experience-in-football/

    Zero facts, just opinion. Exactly the same point could be made about sports like Ice Hockey, which is overwhelmingly white (and on average don't get paid as much). If you want to argue college sports are unfair because the athletes aren't fairly remunerated, that is one thing (and true across all the sports), but NFL is racist because too many black people are good at it.
    The Fields Medal is surely pretty racist too - lots of white winners? All adds to the evidence against 'fields'.
    It’s been pointed out on Twitter that if you can cancel “field” then almost any word is liable for cancellation. “Work” for a start. Slaves were sent to WORK in FIELDS

    Also “sent”, “were” and “in”
    Given UK piss poor productivity, I think the word work got cancelled years ago....
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 11,576
    tlg86 said:

    Heathener said:

    01st February is a dangerous day for this Conservative Government.

    If 100,000 civil servants don't turn up to work and no one notices, is it still a strike?
    It took my dad 9 months to get his driving licence back after it was wrongly removed. A non functioning civil service going on strike will be amusing.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 4,939
    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Heathener said:

    01st February is a dangerous day for this Conservative Government.

    If 100,000 civil servants don't turn up to work and no one notices, is it still a strike?
    If they don’t turn up for a week, does the government save 2% of their annual costs as no-one notices?
    Strikers here (University) lose only 1/365 of salary per strike day, which has interested me as it implies payment on non-working days. Don't know whether that's standard or unusually generous. It looks like a comparatively cheap way of buying extra leave.

    So only around 1.4% saving if same rules.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 11,576
    Selebian said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Heathener said:

    01st February is a dangerous day for this Conservative Government.

    If 100,000 civil servants don't turn up to work and no one notices, is it still a strike?
    If they don’t turn up for a week, does the government save 2% of their annual costs as no-one notices?
    Strikers here (University) lose only 1/365 of salary per strike day, which has interested me as it implies payment on non-working days. Don't know whether that's standard or unusually generous. It looks like a comparatively cheap way of buying extra leave.

    So only around 1.4% saving if same rules.
    Well to be fair we don't get paid differently in Feb to Jan do we?
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 4,939
    Leon said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    The word “field” has been cancelled. I shit you not


    Wait until they hear about Killing Fields.....named after Wilhelm Killing.

    Another cracking article here....

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/damar-hamlins-collapse-highlights-the-violence-black-men-experience-in-football/

    Zero facts, just opinion. Exactly the same point could be made about sports like Ice Hockey, which is overwhelmingly white (and on average don't get paid as much). If you want to argue college sports are unfair because the athletes aren't fairly remunerated, that is one thing (and true across all the sports), but NFL is racist because too many black people are good at it.
    The Fields Medal is surely pretty racist too - lots of white winners? All adds to the evidence against 'fields'.
    It’s been pointed out on Twitter that if you can cancel “field” then almost any word is liable for cancellation. “Work” for a start. Slaves were sent to WORK in FIELDS

    Also “sent”, “were” and “in”
    Mind you (I cannot read the pictured letter) if this is legit it's still only a department of social work. Departments with 'Social' in the title are supposed to come up with batshit crazy stuff, it's pretty much in the job description.

    I don't think the Wokeocalypse is upon us just yet.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,975
    Leon said:

    The word “field” has been cancelled. I shit you not


    For every one of these (if true since often they aren't) in the world I wonder how many instances of good old fashioned racism there are? 58 million? Not sure. It'd be an interesting research project for somebody.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 4,939

    Leon said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    The word “field” has been cancelled. I shit you not


    Wait until they hear about Killing Fields.....named after Wilhelm Killing.

    Another cracking article here....

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/damar-hamlins-collapse-highlights-the-violence-black-men-experience-in-football/

    Zero facts, just opinion. Exactly the same point could be made about sports like Ice Hockey, which is overwhelmingly white (and on average don't get paid as much). If you want to argue college sports are unfair because the athletes aren't fairly remunerated, that is one thing (and true across all the sports), but NFL is racist because too many black people are good at it.
    The Fields Medal is surely pretty racist too - lots of white winners? All adds to the evidence against 'fields'.
    It’s been pointed out on Twitter that if you can cancel “field” then almost any word is liable for cancellation. “Work” for a start. Slaves were sent to WORK in FIELDS

    Also “sent”, “were” and “in”
    Given UK piss poor productivity, I think the word work got cancelled years ago....
    Rumour has it that if PB were shut for a week, UK productivity would surge...
    Nah, we're creative intelligent people. We'd find other outlets to waste time.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 4,939

    Selebian said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Heathener said:

    01st February is a dangerous day for this Conservative Government.

    If 100,000 civil servants don't turn up to work and no one notices, is it still a strike?
    If they don’t turn up for a week, does the government save 2% of their annual costs as no-one notices?
    Strikers here (University) lose only 1/365 of salary per strike day, which has interested me as it implies payment on non-working days. Don't know whether that's standard or unusually generous. It looks like a comparatively cheap way of buying extra leave.

    So only around 1.4% saving if same rules.
    Well to be fair we don't get paid differently in Feb to Jan do we?
    True. But I adjust my work ethic according to days in the month. Work super hard in Feb, except on leap years :wink:
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,506
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:
    Tom Jones with EMF was the peak?
    Surely this was when the world peaked:-

    Sex claim at No 10 lockdown party

    Some of Boris Johnson’s aides are believed to have had sex at 10 Downing Street during a party that took place during lockdown on the eve of the Duke of Edinburgh’s funeral.

    Two couples were seen by numerous witnesses becoming intimate with each other at the gathering of aides and officials, which continued past 4am. One pair were seen “feeling each other up” in a kitchen before retiring to a dark room from which they later emerged “flustered”. The other pair were seen going into an office “with the lights off”.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-partygate-joked-about-lack-of-social-distancing-at-downing-street-lockdown-event-qh5fcw9pz (£££)

    Flustered. That's a good word. Hope it doesn't get cancelled.
    The fact that these new party revelations are being deployed seems to indicate that there is growing disquiet in Camp Sunak.
    Growing disquiet in Camp Anyone-But-Boris, perhaps, following news of moves to reinstate Big Dog.
    Hopefully for them they have more than office rumpy pumpy to impede his Royal progress.

    By the way, I don't support Borises return, just think he'd be marginally better than the current Government. As would a horde of visigoths or a plague of newts.
    You'll be voting Labour, then ? 😏
    I would never rule it out. I don't think I would ever vote SNP (sorry SNP supporters) as their main object is to break up the UK and I cannot support that.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,506

    Leon said:
    Tom Jones with EMF was the peak?
    Surely this was when the world peaked:-

    Sex claim at No 10 lockdown party

    Some of Boris Johnson’s aides are believed to have had sex at 10 Downing Street during a party that took place during lockdown on the eve of the Duke of Edinburgh’s funeral.

    Two couples were seen by numerous witnesses becoming intimate with each other at the gathering of aides and officials, which continued past 4am. One pair were seen “feeling each other up” in a kitchen before retiring to a dark room from which they later emerged “flustered”. The other pair were seen going into an office “with the lights off”.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-partygate-joked-about-lack-of-social-distancing-at-downing-street-lockdown-event-qh5fcw9pz (£££)

    Flustered. That's a good word. Hope it doesn't get cancelled.
    The fact that these new party revelations are being deployed seems to indicate that there is growing disquiet in Camp Sunak.
    Are you suggesting its the Sunak camp putting them out to nix Johnson? Surely its also damaging the Tory party at the same time?
    Yes, and yes.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,356
    edited January 12
    kjh said:

    30 point Labour lead. By July.

    I wonder what the May locals will do to the polls. It could be wishful thinking on my part, but this is the (possibly only) opportunity for the LDs to get out of the doldrums. It could see a big boost for them if they do particularly well. That would be at the expense of the Conservatives, but also Labour if they are seen as an alternative in the LD/Con areas where Lab will be also doing quite well in the polls currently.
    The voteshares in the May 2019 local elections were Conservatives 28% Labour 28% and LDs 19% when the ward seats up in May were last up.

    So there is little further room for swing to the LDs. Instead while there will be a swing from Conservative to Labour there might also be some swing from LD to Labour too now Starmer is Labour leader not Corbyn

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_United_Kingdom_local_elections
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,356
    Starmer remains favourite to be PM. Getting a majority though will still be a challenge for him if Sunak can get the Tories back over 30% and cut the Labour lead
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 49,020
    The important thing to remember here is PM after the next election v. Next PM.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,316

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:
    Tom Jones with EMF was the peak?
    Surely this was when the world peaked:-

    Sex claim at No 10 lockdown party

    Some of Boris Johnson’s aides are believed to have had sex at 10 Downing Street during a party that took place during lockdown on the eve of the Duke of Edinburgh’s funeral.

    Two couples were seen by numerous witnesses becoming intimate with each other at the gathering of aides and officials, which continued past 4am. One pair were seen “feeling each other up” in a kitchen before retiring to a dark room from which they later emerged “flustered”. The other pair were seen going into an office “with the lights off”.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-partygate-joked-about-lack-of-social-distancing-at-downing-street-lockdown-event-qh5fcw9pz (£££)

    Flustered. That's a good word. Hope it doesn't get cancelled.
    The fact that these new party revelations are being deployed seems to indicate that there is growing disquiet in Camp Sunak.
    Growing disquiet in Camp Anyone-But-Boris, perhaps, following news of moves to reinstate Big Dog.
    Hopefully for them they have more than office rumpy pumpy to impede his Royal progress.

    By the way, I don't support Borises return, just think he'd be marginally better than the current Government. As would a horde of visigoths or a plague of newts.
    You'll be voting Labour, then ? 😏
    I would never rule it out. I don't think I would ever vote SNP (sorry SNP supporters) as their main object is to break up the UK and I cannot support that.
    That sounds like a no to the visigoths, too.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 4,939
    Sandpit said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    The word “field” has been cancelled. I shit you not


    Wait until they hear about Killing Fields.....named after Wilhelm Killing.

    Another cracking article here....

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/damar-hamlins-collapse-highlights-the-violence-black-men-experience-in-football/

    Zero facts, just opinion. Exactly the same point could be made about sports like Ice Hockey, which is overwhelmingly white (and on average don't get paid as much). If you want to argue college sports are unfair because the athletes aren't fairly remunerated, that is one thing (and true across all the sports), but NFL is racist because too many black people are good at it.
    The Fields Medal is surely pretty racist too - lots of white winners? All adds to the evidence against 'fields'.
    Titania McGrath has been documenting ‘things that are now racist’ for years.
    https://twitter.com/TitaniaMcGrath/status/1281023987242487808
    I must say that I had noticed (third tweet down) that the baddies in LoTR are generally a bit, well, dark-skinnned. Product of the times, I guess (although I can't remember how they are described in the books). If the films were done now, I suspect there would be some black and/or Asian actors on the good team.

    The recent Amazon adaptation has black elves and dwarves - and why not?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 42,503

    The important thing to remember here is PM after the next election v. Next PM.

    70% sounds about right for Starmer as PM rather than with a majority, the latter of which I think is too short given the numerical size of the task.

    Is the value in the 9/1 for neither PM Sunak nor PM Starmer after the next election?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 24,023
    Sandpit said:

    The important thing to remember here is PM after the next election v. Next PM.

    70% sounds about right for Starmer as PM rather than with a majority, the latter of which I think is too short given the numerical size of the task.

    Is the value in the 9/1 for neither PM Sunak nor PM Starmer after the next election?
    Not that there's much to be made from it, but I think that's a lay. If it isn't Sunak, it will be Starmer.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,316
    Korea to boost share of nuclear power to 34.6% of energy mix by 2036
    https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=343496
    ...The proportions of fossil fuel and LNG will fall to 14.4 percent and 9.3 percent in 2036, down from 41.9 percent and 26.8 percent in 2018, respectively...


    US benefits from Korea's lack of interest in solar power industry
    https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=343499
    The Yoon Suk Yeol administration's obvious preference for nuclear energy over renewables has unintentionally created thousands of new jobs in the U.S. solar power industry, as Korean companies began shifting their focus to the North American market from the shrinking domestic market, according to industry officials, Thursday.

    After Hanwha Solutions held a press conference on Wednesday to announce its $2.5-billion investment to build North America's largest solar module manufacturing complex in the state of Georgia, ..
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,682
    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    The important thing to remember here is PM after the next election v. Next PM.

    70% sounds about right for Starmer as PM rather than with a majority, the latter of which I think is too short given the numerical size of the task.

    Is the value in the 9/1 for neither PM Sunak nor PM Starmer after the next election?
    Not that there's much to be made from it, but I think that's a lay. If it isn't Sunak, it will be Starmer.
    Assuming Sunak fights the next election.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 28,187

    Leon said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    The word “field” has been cancelled. I shit you not


    Wait until they hear about Killing Fields.....named after Wilhelm Killing.

    Another cracking article here....

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/damar-hamlins-collapse-highlights-the-violence-black-men-experience-in-football/

    Zero facts, just opinion. Exactly the same point could be made about sports like Ice Hockey, which is overwhelmingly white (and on average don't get paid as much). If you want to argue college sports are unfair because the athletes aren't fairly remunerated, that is one thing (and true across all the sports), but NFL is racist because too many black people are good at it.
    The Fields Medal is surely pretty racist too - lots of white winners? All adds to the evidence against 'fields'.
    It’s been pointed out on Twitter that if you can cancel “field” then almost any word is liable for cancellation. “Work” for a start. Slaves were sent to WORK in FIELDS

    Also “sent”, “were” and “in”
    Given UK piss poor productivity, I think the word work got cancelled years ago....
    Rumour has it that if PB were shut for a week, UK productivity would surge...
    But where would all the politicians go for guidance on how to run the country? :)
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 57,763
    Policy Exchange:

    This report demonstrates that the Scottish National Party’s (SNP) Gender Recognition Reform Bill, which aims to change the law regulating legal sex change for those born or resident in Scotland, will fundamentally alter the law relating to equal opportunities across the United Kingdom.

    The report argues that the United Kingdom Government can – and should – make a section 35 order under the Scotland Act 1998 to block Royal assent for the Bill, which would prevent it from becoming law.


    https://policyexchange.org.uk/publication/the-scottish-gender-recognition-reform-bill/
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 42,503
    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    The important thing to remember here is PM after the next election v. Next PM.

    70% sounds about right for Starmer as PM rather than with a majority, the latter of which I think is too short given the numerical size of the task.

    Is the value in the 9/1 for neither PM Sunak nor PM Starmer after the next election?
    Not that there's much to be made from it, but I think that's a lay. If it isn't Sunak, it will be Starmer.
    10% sounds reasonable, for the chance that one or other of them is no longer party leader at the next election. Sunak could be facing a mutiny in the summer, if the May elections go badly.
  • HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    30 point Labour lead. By July.

    I wonder what the May locals will do to the polls. It could be wishful thinking on my part, but this is the (possibly only) opportunity for the LDs to get out of the doldrums. It could see a big boost for them if they do particularly well. That would be at the expense of the Conservatives, but also Labour if they are seen as an alternative in the LD/Con areas where Lab will be also doing quite well in the polls currently.
    The voteshares in the May 2019 local elections were Conservatives 28% Labour 28% and LDs 19% when the ward seats up in May were last up.

    So there is little further room for swing to the LDs. Instead while there will be a swing from Conservative to Labour there might also be some swing from LD to Labour too now Starmer is Labour leader not Corbyn

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_United_Kingdom_local_elections
    The last YouGov before the 2019 locals had Conservatives 29%, Labour 29%, LDs 13% (Brexit Party on 15%). This would suggest a +6% for LDs and -1% for Conservatives and Labour.

    The last YouGov has Conservatives 25%, Labour 46%, LDs 9% (RefUK 7%) . On the same adjustment this would give the locals Conservatives 24% (-4%), Labour 45% (+17%) and LDs 15% (-4%).

    Labour to gain lots of seats from Conservatives and LDs, will little change movement between Conservatives and LDs.

    One difference between the opinion polls in 2019 and now is the 8% difference between Brexit and RefUK votes - those voters have appeared to go to Labour (looking at pure % movements) but are they the voters who actually vote in locals?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,682

    Leon said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    The word “field” has been cancelled. I shit you not


    Wait until they hear about Killing Fields.....named after Wilhelm Killing.

    Another cracking article here....

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/damar-hamlins-collapse-highlights-the-violence-black-men-experience-in-football/

    Zero facts, just opinion. Exactly the same point could be made about sports like Ice Hockey, which is overwhelmingly white (and on average don't get paid as much). If you want to argue college sports are unfair because the athletes aren't fairly remunerated, that is one thing (and true across all the sports), but NFL is racist because too many black people are good at it.
    The Fields Medal is surely pretty racist too - lots of white winners? All adds to the evidence against 'fields'.
    It’s been pointed out on Twitter that if you can cancel “field” then almost any word is liable for cancellation. “Work” for a start. Slaves were sent to WORK in FIELDS

    Also “sent”, “were” and “in”
    Given UK piss poor productivity, I think the word work got cancelled years ago....
    Rumour has it that if PB were shut for a week, UK productivity would surge...
    But where would all the politicians go for guidance on how to run the country? :)
    They clearly aren't following our guidance currently.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,637
    To put the NHS chaos in context

    I am in Bangkok. Today I needed a prescription. I emailed a doctor this morning, they gave me a video consult at noon, they filled the prescription this afternoon and the pills have been biked to my hotel just now. Total cost: £60.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 24,023
    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    The important thing to remember here is PM after the next election v. Next PM.

    70% sounds about right for Starmer as PM rather than with a majority, the latter of which I think is too short given the numerical size of the task.

    Is the value in the 9/1 for neither PM Sunak nor PM Starmer after the next election?
    Not that there's much to be made from it, but I think that's a lay. If it isn't Sunak, it will be Starmer.
    10% sounds reasonable, for the chance that one or other of them is no longer party leader at the next election. Sunak could be facing a mutiny in the summer, if the May elections go badly.
    And his successor won't be PM after the election. Sacking off one PM is one thing. Sacking off the replacement in double-quick time is unchartered waters, but I'm prepared to think that it might work out as Sunak might be seen as sensible. I would be amazed if Mr Boring is sacked and his successor is PM after the election.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,356
    edited January 12
    Jacob Rees Mogg sets out to Tom Harwood what Conservatives must do to win over voters under 45

    https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1613479438058131463?s=20&t=pwEQ1cNXg_M83EtleNHyrg
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 32,145

    Leon said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    The word “field” has been cancelled. I shit you not


    Wait until they hear about Killing Fields.....named after Wilhelm Killing.

    Another cracking article here....

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/damar-hamlins-collapse-highlights-the-violence-black-men-experience-in-football/

    Zero facts, just opinion. Exactly the same point could be made about sports like Ice Hockey, which is overwhelmingly white (and on average don't get paid as much). If you want to argue college sports are unfair because the athletes aren't fairly remunerated, that is one thing (and true across all the sports), but NFL is racist because too many black people are good at it.
    The Fields Medal is surely pretty racist too - lots of white winners? All adds to the evidence against 'fields'.
    It’s been pointed out on Twitter that if you can cancel “field” then almost any word is liable for cancellation. “Work” for a start. Slaves were sent to WORK in FIELDS

    Also “sent”, “were” and “in”
    Given UK piss poor productivity, I think the word work got cancelled years ago....
    Rumour has it that if PB were shut for a week, UK productivity would surge...
    But where would all the politicians go for guidance on how to run the country? :)
    They clearly aren't following our guidance currently.
    For a start, they were feeding pineapple pizza from Domino’s to cross channel immigrants.

    Unless this was a subtle plan….
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,356

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    30 point Labour lead. By July.

    I wonder what the May locals will do to the polls. It could be wishful thinking on my part, but this is the (possibly only) opportunity for the LDs to get out of the doldrums. It could see a big boost for them if they do particularly well. That would be at the expense of the Conservatives, but also Labour if they are seen as an alternative in the LD/Con areas where Lab will be also doing quite well in the polls currently.
    The voteshares in the May 2019 local elections were Conservatives 28% Labour 28% and LDs 19% when the ward seats up in May were last up.

    So there is little further room for swing to the LDs. Instead while there will be a swing from Conservative to Labour there might also be some swing from LD to Labour too now Starmer is Labour leader not Corbyn

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_United_Kingdom_local_elections
    The last YouGov before the 2019 locals had Conservatives 29%, Labour 29%, LDs 13% (Brexit Party on 15%). This would suggest a +6% for LDs and -1% for Conservatives and Labour.

    The last YouGov has Conservatives 25%, Labour 46%, LDs 9% (RefUK 7%) . On the same adjustment this would give the locals Conservatives 24% (-4%), Labour 45% (+17%) and LDs 15% (-4%).

    Labour to gain lots of seats from Conservatives and LDs, will little change movement between Conservatives and LDs.

    One difference between the opinion polls in 2019 and now is the 8% difference between Brexit and RefUK votes - those voters have appeared to go to Labour (looking at pure % movements) but are they the voters who actually vote in locals?
    So that suggests no swing at all from Conservative to LD since the last local elections but a 10.5% swing from Conservative to Labour.

    So Conservative councillors where the LDs are in second place should be OK but Conservative councillors where Labour are the main challengers are at significant risk of losing their seats unless in ultra safe rural wards.

    As you say Labour might even pick up some council seats from the LDs too
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 19,093

    The important thing to remember here is PM after the next election v. Next PM.

    If Boris Johnson falls at the first, where do we think awesome public sector union crushing superhero Grant Shapps could feature?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 19,093
    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg sets out to Tom Harwood what Conservatives must do to win over voters under 45

    https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1613479438058131463?s=20&t=pwEQ1cNXg_M83EtleNHyrg

    Awesome!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,316
    The US is lapping up todgergate.

    https://slate.com/technology/2023/01/prince-harry-spare-book-frostbite-penis-todger.html
    ...“Superficial frostbite normally doesn’t prove to have many long-term consequences, but deep frostbite can have very severe consequences, including amputation,” McIntosh said. Harry did not confirm the ultimate outcome for his own case, but Comiter, the Stanford doctor, assumes he was fine. “It would be very unlikely that he would have lost his penis and not spoken about it to Anderson Cooper,” he said...
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 23,356
    Leon said:

    To put the NHS chaos in context

    I am in Bangkok. Today I needed a prescription. I emailed a doctor this morning, they gave me a video consult at noon, they filled the prescription this afternoon and the pills have been biked to my hotel just now. Total cost: £60.

    The difference between a "free at the point of use" service - where rationing is done by queues - and one where payment is made - and cost is the rationing agent.

    At the St John & Elizabeth hospital in St John's Wood they offer something similar - though you can also get a hour's face to face consultation with an actual doctor - for between £100 and £120.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 42,503
    Doing some more digging on the US aviation failure - whoops!

    Congress gave the FAA billions for the NextGen Air Transport System, and the FAA squandered the money on a massive project that was started in 2007 and isn't expected to be ready until 2030, after 23 years of development. Few expect it to be completed even by that late date, if ever.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Generation_Air_Transportation_System

    Doesn’t this sound remakably similar, to a bunch of large-scale public sector projects at the other side of the Atlantic Ocean?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,423
    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    To put the NHS chaos in context

    I am in Bangkok. Today I needed a prescription. I emailed a doctor this morning, they gave me a video consult at noon, they filled the prescription this afternoon and the pills have been biked to my hotel just now. Total cost: £60.

    The difference between a "free at the point of use" service - where rationing is done by queues - and one where payment is made - and cost is the rationing agent.

    At the St John & Elizabeth hospital in St John's Wood they offer something similar - though you can also get a hour's face to face consultation with an actual doctor - for between £100 and £120.
    That seems a low price compared to what it might be in the United States. Everything seems to cost thousands there.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 8,142
    Leon said:

    To put the NHS chaos in context

    I am in Bangkok. Today I needed a prescription. I emailed a doctor this morning, they gave me a video consult at noon, they filled the prescription this afternoon and the pills have been biked to my hotel just now. Total cost: £60.

    Well AFAIU that (or that sort of efficiency at least) sounds how most of the world works.
    The problem is, I think, that most of Britain would balk at a cost of £60. You or I might think that reasonable; I suspect well over half the country would perceive that as impossibly and unmanageably expensive. They will grudgingly sit in out of hours for five hours waiting to see a GP, but having been conditioned over the last 70 years to expect healthcare to be free (I think most people still don't pay for prescriptions) any increase on 'free' is seen as unacceptable.

    I don't know for sure, of course. But it would be interesting to yougov your anecdote and see if people prefer the sound of that system to the one we have. My suspicion is that the ROW system of efficient-but-you-pay-for-it would be rejected by the British. (There is, of course, a psychological phenomenon at play here that humans typically value more greatly what they have than what they could have in its stead.)
  • CookieCookie Posts: 8,142
    Andy_JS said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    To put the NHS chaos in context

    I am in Bangkok. Today I needed a prescription. I emailed a doctor this morning, they gave me a video consult at noon, they filled the prescription this afternoon and the pills have been biked to my hotel just now. Total cost: £60.

    The difference between a "free at the point of use" service - where rationing is done by queues - and one where payment is made - and cost is the rationing agent.

    At the St John & Elizabeth hospital in St John's Wood they offer something similar - though you can also get a hour's face to face consultation with an actual doctor - for between £100 and £120.
    That seems a low price compared to what it might be in the United States. Everything seems to cost thousands there.
    That is, I think, a feature of their insurance aspect of healthcare, which seriously blurs the normal price mechanisms of giving people what they value at prices they would be willing to pay.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 19,093

    Leon said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    The word “field” has been cancelled. I shit you not


    Wait until they hear about Killing Fields.....named after Wilhelm Killing.

    Another cracking article here....

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/damar-hamlins-collapse-highlights-the-violence-black-men-experience-in-football/

    Zero facts, just opinion. Exactly the same point could be made about sports like Ice Hockey, which is overwhelmingly white (and on average don't get paid as much). If you want to argue college sports are unfair because the athletes aren't fairly remunerated, that is one thing (and true across all the sports), but NFL is racist because too many black people are good at it.
    The Fields Medal is surely pretty racist too - lots of white winners? All adds to the evidence against 'fields'.
    It’s been pointed out on Twitter that if you can cancel “field” then almost any word is liable for cancellation. “Work” for a start. Slaves were sent to WORK in FIELDS

    Also “sent”, “were” and “in”
    Given UK piss poor productivity, I think the word work got cancelled years ago....
    Rumour has it that if PB were shut for a week, UK productivity would surge...
    But where would all the politicians go for guidance on how to run the country? :)
    They clearly aren't following our guidance currently.
    They are on point with HY's every post.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,949

    The important thing to remember here is PM after the next election v. Next PM.

    If Boris Johnson falls at the first, where do we think awesome public sector union crushing superhero Grant Shapps could feature?
    Grant Shapps, minister for leadership campaign spreadsheets. It's possible but not likely, I'd have thought, unless he can pull off some triumph as Business Secretary.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 1,477
    Leon said:

    To put the NHS chaos in context

    I am in Bangkok. Today I needed a prescription. I emailed a doctor this morning, they gave me a video consult at noon, they filled the prescription this afternoon and the pills have been biked to my hotel just now. Total cost: £60.

    About 10% of the median Bangkok monthly wage, though...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 32,145
    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    The important thing to remember here is PM after the next election v. Next PM.

    70% sounds about right for Starmer as PM rather than with a majority, the latter of which I think is too short given the numerical size of the task.

    Is the value in the 9/1 for neither PM Sunak nor PM Starmer after the next election?
    Not that there's much to be made from it, but I think that's a lay. If it isn't Sunak, it will be Starmer.
    10% sounds reasonable, for the chance that one or other of them is no longer party leader at the next election. Sunak could be facing a mutiny in the summer, if the May elections go badly.
    And his successor won't be PM after the election. Sacking off one PM is one thing. Sacking off the replacement in double-quick time is unchartered waters, but I'm prepared to think that it might work out as Sunak might be seen as sensible. I would be amazed if Mr Boring is sacked and his successor is PM after the election.
    If Sunak is replaced, I think that Starmers chances increase.

    This is not because Sunak is the best possible leader. More that the resulting chaos and infighting will more than negate any potential improvement from any candidate likely to on offer.
  • Where did you go to uni @HYUFD ?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 8,142
    Nigelb said:

    The US is lapping up todgergate.

    https://slate.com/technology/2023/01/prince-harry-spare-book-frostbite-penis-todger.html
    ...“Superficial frostbite normally doesn’t prove to have many long-term consequences, but deep frostbite can have very severe consequences, including amputation,” McIntosh said. Harry did not confirm the ultimate outcome for his own case, but Comiter, the Stanford doctor, assumes he was fine. “It would be very unlikely that he would have lost his penis and not spoken about it to Anderson Cooper,” he said...

    How stereotypically American. The assumed need to tell all and sundry.
    If I had been unfortunate enough to lose my penis, very, very few people would get to hear of it. I certainly wouldn't tell someone writing a book about me.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 42,503
    edited January 12
    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    To put the NHS chaos in context

    I am in Bangkok. Today I needed a prescription. I emailed a doctor this morning, they gave me a video consult at noon, they filled the prescription this afternoon and the pills have been biked to my hotel just now. Total cost: £60.

    The difference between a "free at the point of use" service - where rationing is done by queues - and one where payment is made - and cost is the rationing agent.

    At the St John & Elizabeth hospital in St John's Wood they offer something similar - though you can also get a hour's face to face consultation with an actual doctor - for between £100 and £120.
    I have full insurance with a 10% co-pay on outpatient services, so if I want to see a doctor I pay £6 or thereabouts, and the insurance company pays £54. I can see most specialisms within 48 hours, and a GP almost immediately if it were urgent.

    I’m not sure how much the £6 fee dampens demand, but the insurance company and the hospital must think it enough to bother with the admin costs associated with the billing.

    The NHS needs to think outside the box, and look at what works elsewhere. Looking from afar, the two major issues appear to be getting people out of hospital who should be somewhere else, and the GP services doing less than the bare minimum with little oversight or accountability. Structurally, the GP as the gateway to most other services creates a single point of failure.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 3,127

    Where did you go to uni HYUFD ?

    He answered that yesterday, why are you asking again out of the blue, completely unrelated to any ongoing discussion? Don't be a bully.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 19,093
    Driver said:

    Where did you go to uni HYUFD ?

    He answered that yesterday, why are you asking again out of the blue, completely unrelated to any ongoing discussion? Don't be a bully.
    Why are you bullying Horse again? He was talking to you anyway.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 4,939
    Leon said:

    To put the NHS chaos in context

    I am in Bangkok. Today I needed a prescription. I emailed a doctor this morning, they gave me a video consult at noon, they filled the prescription this afternoon and the pills have been biked to my hotel just now. Total cost: £60.

    My two most recent NHS interactions (both last three months) were comparable, to be fair:
    1. I called GP, for me, for something I knew enough about that it could be serious but if I had it I would probably be already dead or at least very obviously ill, which I was not (so, low likelihood, high impact). Called 0800, phone back from GP 0840 with quite detailed discussion, in person GP appointment that afternoon at 1400, in hospital 1700, CT scan 2330. At that point (CT scan showed no major problem) things slowed down and I wasn't out until 2100 following day after some other investigations.
    2. Called GP for my daughter 0800, call back at 0830 with in person appointment 0930. Back home with antibiotics by 1030.

    There are, very clearly, many places where primary care sucks, but it's not universal. Here we also have an excellent minor injuries unit, which we have used a number of times and generally get seen, turning up without appointment, within 30 minutes. These (GP and minor injuries unit) are located in a fairly deprived town, although serving some affluent areas too.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 3,127

    Driver said:

    Where did you go to uni HYUFD ?

    He answered that yesterday, why are you asking again out of the blue, completely unrelated to any ongoing discussion? Don't be a bully.
    Why are you bullying Horse again? He was talking to you anyway.
    Pointing out someone is being a bully is not bullying, don't be silly.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 57,763
    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    To put the NHS chaos in context

    I am in Bangkok. Today I needed a prescription. I emailed a doctor this morning, they gave me a video consult at noon, they filled the prescription this afternoon and the pills have been biked to my hotel just now. Total cost: £60.

    The difference between a "free at the point of use" service - where rationing is done by queues - and one where payment is made - and cost is the rationing agent.

    At the St John & Elizabeth hospital in St John's Wood they offer something similar - though you can also get a hour's face to face consultation with an actual doctor - for between £100 and £120.
    Bits of the NHS are still functioning very efficiently - a recent example, when I went in for pre-op screening I was told “you have to apply online for a blood test” - new system I hadn’t been informed of (and as it’s done at a hospital half an hour drive away a bit of a faff). So I checked, and one was available within 10 minutes. So I got it done. The results were on my NHS app by the time I got home.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    My mother has O levels, my father A levels. Neither went to university unlike me (albeit my father's father went to LSE nightschool and got a degree)

    Where did you go to uni HYUFD?
    Warwick for undergrad, Aberystwyth for postgrad
    Sorry HYUFD, missed your answer yesterday.

    My best friend went to Warwick, small world! What did you study there?
  • Driver said:

    Where did you go to uni HYUFD ?

    He answered that yesterday, why are you asking again out of the blue, completely unrelated to any ongoing discussion? Don't be a bully.
    Why are you bullying Horse again? He was talking to you anyway.
    You're talking to a robot Pete, have some fun with it
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 4,939

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    My mother has O levels, my father A levels. Neither went to university unlike me (albeit my father's father went to LSE nightschool and got a degree)

    Where did you go to uni HYUFD?
    Warwick for undergrad, Aberystwyth for postgrad
    Sorry HYUFD, missed your answer yesterday.

    My best friend went to Warwick, small world! What did you study there?
    Me too. All the best people* get sent to Coventry.

    *And HYUFD. And me.
  • HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg sets out to Tom Harwood what Conservatives must do to win over voters under 45

    https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1613479438058131463?s=20&t=pwEQ1cNXg_M83EtleNHyrg

    I'm under 45, Jacob is talking nonsense.

    What we need is to stop giving old people and pensioners a triple lock, we need house prices to come down massively and we need to massively increase housing supply.

    Until then, they're done
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,949
    Sandpit said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    To put the NHS chaos in context

    I am in Bangkok. Today I needed a prescription. I emailed a doctor this morning, they gave me a video consult at noon, they filled the prescription this afternoon and the pills have been biked to my hotel just now. Total cost: £60.

    The difference between a "free at the point of use" service - where rationing is done by queues - and one where payment is made - and cost is the rationing agent.

    At the St John & Elizabeth hospital in St John's Wood they offer something similar - though you can also get a hour's face to face consultation with an actual doctor - for between £100 and £120.
    I have full insurance with a 10% co-pay on outpatient services, so if I want to see a doctor I pay £6 or thereabouts, and the insurance company pays £54. I can see most specialisms within 48 hours, and a GP almost immediately if it were urgent.

    I’m not sure how much the £6 fee dampens demand, but the insurance company and the hospital must think it enough to bother with the admin costs associated with the billing.

    The NHS needs to think outside the box, and look at what works elsewhere. Looking from afar, the two major issues appear to be getting people out of hospital who should be somewhere else, and the GP services doing less than the bare minimum with little oversight or accountability. Structurally, the GP as the gateway to most other services creates a single point of failure.
    The elephant in the NHS room is that a lot of doctors have left and a lot more want to leave, whether to work abroad, part time, or to leave medicine altogether. Now, whether that is due to pressure, low wages or just letting the wrong people into medical school, I don't know. At the top end, the pension cap is probably to blame but there is a big problem with junior hospital doctors.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 4,939
    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    Where did you go to uni HYUFD ?

    He answered that yesterday, why are you asking again out of the blue, completely unrelated to any ongoing discussion? Don't be a bully.
    Why are you bullying Horse again? He was talking to you anyway.
    Pointing out someone is being a bully is not bullying, don't be silly.
    Can I confess that I hope you get banned some day? But only so you can come back as Wedge or 9-Iron :kissing_heart:
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,316
    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    The US is lapping up todgergate.

    https://slate.com/technology/2023/01/prince-harry-spare-book-frostbite-penis-todger.html
    ...“Superficial frostbite normally doesn’t prove to have many long-term consequences, but deep frostbite can have very severe consequences, including amputation,” McIntosh said. Harry did not confirm the ultimate outcome for his own case, but Comiter, the Stanford doctor, assumes he was fine. “It would be very unlikely that he would have lost his penis and not spoken about it to Anderson Cooper,” he said...

    How stereotypically American. The assumed need to tell all and sundry.
    If I had been unfortunate enough to lose my penis, very, very few people would get to hear of it. I certainly wouldn't tell someone writing a book about me.
    I think there might have been a little unstereotypical irony in that piece.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 3,127

    Sandpit said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    To put the NHS chaos in context

    I am in Bangkok. Today I needed a prescription. I emailed a doctor this morning, they gave me a video consult at noon, they filled the prescription this afternoon and the pills have been biked to my hotel just now. Total cost: £60.

    The difference between a "free at the point of use" service - where rationing is done by queues - and one where payment is made - and cost is the rationing agent.

    At the St John & Elizabeth hospital in St John's Wood they offer something similar - though you can also get a hour's face to face consultation with an actual doctor - for between £100 and £120.
    I have full insurance with a 10% co-pay on outpatient services, so if I want to see a doctor I pay £6 or thereabouts, and the insurance company pays £54. I can see most specialisms within 48 hours, and a GP almost immediately if it were urgent.

    I’m not sure how much the £6 fee dampens demand, but the insurance company and the hospital must think it enough to bother with the admin costs associated with the billing.

    The NHS needs to think outside the box, and look at what works elsewhere. Looking from afar, the two major issues appear to be getting people out of hospital who should be somewhere else, and the GP services doing less than the bare minimum with little oversight or accountability. Structurally, the GP as the gateway to most other services creates a single point of failure.
    The elephant in the NHS room is that a lot of doctors have left and a lot more want to leave, whether to work abroad, part time, or to leave medicine altogether. Now, whether that is due to pressure, low wages or just letting the wrong people into medical school, I don't know. At the top end, the pension cap is probably to blame but there is a big problem with junior hospital doctors.
    Of these, "part time" is the big problem - especially for GPs.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 29,264
    🔴 Sadiq Khan will suggest ideas including rejoining the single market as he urges a "pragmatic debate" on Europe in a break with the Labour Party's national position.

    Read more on our politics live blog ⬇️
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/01/12/rishi-sunak-news-latest-strikes-starmer-labour-nhs-inflation/ https://twitter.com/TelePolitics/status/1613497636165763073/photo/1
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 11,240
    edited January 12
    Selebian said:

    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    Where did you go to uni HYUFD ?

    He answered that yesterday, why are you asking again out of the blue, completely unrelated to any ongoing discussion? Don't be a bully.
    Why are you bullying Horse again? He was talking to you anyway.
    Pointing out someone is being a bully is not bullying, don't be silly.
    Can I confess that I hope you get banned some day? But only so you can come back as Wedge or 9-Iron :kissing_heart:
    Not Walker or Cyclist?
  • Scott_xP said:

    🔴 Sadiq Khan will suggest ideas including rejoining the single market as he urges a "pragmatic debate" on Europe in a break with the Labour Party's national position.

    Read more on our politics live blog ⬇️
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/01/12/rishi-sunak-news-latest-strikes-starmer-labour-nhs-inflation/ https://twitter.com/TelePolitics/status/1613497636165763073/photo/1

    Ridiculous idea.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 37,054
    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    To put the NHS chaos in context

    I am in Bangkok. Today I needed a prescription. I emailed a doctor this morning, they gave me a video consult at noon, they filled the prescription this afternoon and the pills have been biked to my hotel just now. Total cost: £60.

    My two most recent NHS interactions (both last three months) were comparable, to be fair:
    1. I called GP, for me, for something I knew enough about that it could be serious but if I had it I would probably be already dead or at least very obviously ill, which I was not (so, low likelihood, high impact). Called 0800, phone back from GP 0840 with quite detailed discussion, in person GP appointment that afternoon at 1400, in hospital 1700, CT scan 2330. At that point (CT scan showed no major problem) things slowed down and I wasn't out until 2100 following day after some other investigations.
    2. Called GP for my daughter 0800, call back at 0830 with in person appointment 0930. Back home with antibiotics by 1030.

    There are, very clearly, many places where primary care sucks, but it's not universal. Here we also have an excellent minor injuries unit, which we have used a number of times and generally get seen, turning up without appointment, within 30 minutes. These (GP and minor injuries unit) are located in a fairly deprived town, although serving some affluent areas too.
    Interesting that it took 14-odd waking hours to get you out of hospital. Had it been on a Friday you'd have still been there on the Monday.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,423

    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg sets out to Tom Harwood what Conservatives must do to win over voters under 45

    https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1613479438058131463?s=20&t=pwEQ1cNXg_M83EtleNHyrg

    I'm under 45, Jacob is talking nonsense.

    What we need is to stop giving old people and pensioners a triple lock, we need house prices to come down massively and we need to massively increase housing supply.

    Until then, they're done
    The main reason house prices are so high is because we have high levels of migration.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 42,503
    Driver said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    To put the NHS chaos in context

    I am in Bangkok. Today I needed a prescription. I emailed a doctor this morning, they gave me a video consult at noon, they filled the prescription this afternoon and the pills have been biked to my hotel just now. Total cost: £60.

    The difference between a "free at the point of use" service - where rationing is done by queues - and one where payment is made - and cost is the rationing agent.

    At the St John & Elizabeth hospital in St John's Wood they offer something similar - though you can also get a hour's face to face consultation with an actual doctor - for between £100 and £120.
    I have full insurance with a 10% co-pay on outpatient services, so if I want to see a doctor I pay £6 or thereabouts, and the insurance company pays £54. I can see most specialisms within 48 hours, and a GP almost immediately if it were urgent.

    I’m not sure how much the £6 fee dampens demand, but the insurance company and the hospital must think it enough to bother with the admin costs associated with the billing.

    The NHS needs to think outside the box, and look at what works elsewhere. Looking from afar, the two major issues appear to be getting people out of hospital who should be somewhere else, and the GP services doing less than the bare minimum with little oversight or accountability. Structurally, the GP as the gateway to most other services creates a single point of failure.
    The elephant in the NHS room is that a lot of doctors have left and a lot more want to leave, whether to work abroad, part time, or to leave medicine altogether. Now, whether that is due to pressure, low wages or just letting the wrong people into medical school, I don't know. At the top end, the pension cap is probably to blame but there is a big problem with junior hospital doctors.
    Of these, "part time" is the big problem - especially for GPs.
    The elephant in the room being, that as long ago as 2008, as many as 65% of med school graduates were women.

    Even the BMJ could see where this was going…
    https://www.bmj.com/content/336/7647/748 (paywalled article, but hints in the summary with regard to “career planning” reasons).
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 9,214

    Leon said:
    Tom Jones with EMF was the peak?
    Surely this was when the world peaked:-

    Sex claim at No 10 lockdown party

    Some of Boris Johnson’s aides are believed to have had sex at 10 Downing Street during a party that took place during lockdown on the eve of the Duke of Edinburgh’s funeral.

    Two couples were seen by numerous witnesses becoming intimate with each other at the gathering of aides and officials, which continued past 4am. One pair were seen “feeling each other up” in a kitchen before retiring to a dark room from which they later emerged “flustered”. The other pair were seen going into an office “with the lights off”.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-partygate-joked-about-lack-of-social-distancing-at-downing-street-lockdown-event-qh5fcw9pz (£££)

    Flustered. That's a good word. Hope it doesn't get cancelled.
    I think 'feeling each other up' is some of the worst writing I've seen since 'The Ice Twins'.
    I love parties like get out of hand like that!

    Is this why Allegro Stratton looked just so bashful denying the lockdown party to camera?

    At least some people in the country thought lockdown and social distancing was mad and not worth complying with, because they come out of this the winners don’t they? Take the different students for example. Those who partied through lockdown like Tories were are now good and healthy and probably in a relationship - those who followed the government message now alone and on citalopram.

    Distance needs to pass before history books can sum the big picture up correctly, but it’s getting there? 1) ring fence the old and vulnerable, everyone else get on with parties and sex 2) don’t let NHS backlog get in such a state that the backlog wipes out as many as those save by lockdowns
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 9,214
    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg sets out to Tom Harwood what Conservatives must do to win over voters under 45

    https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1613479438058131463?s=20&t=pwEQ1cNXg_M83EtleNHyrg

    I'm under 45, Jacob is talking nonsense.

    What we need is to stop giving old people and pensioners a triple lock, we need house prices to come down massively and we need to massively increase housing supply.

    Until then, they're done
    The main reason house prices are so high is because we have high levels of migration.
    The main reason house prices so high was printing money instead of building houses.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 42,503
    Scott_xP said:

    🔴 Sadiq Khan will suggest ideas including rejoining the single market as he urges a "pragmatic debate" on Europe in a break with the Labour Party's national position.

    Read more on our politics live blog ⬇️
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/01/12/rishi-sunak-news-latest-strikes-starmer-labour-nhs-inflation/ https://twitter.com/TelePolitics/status/1613497636165763073/photo/1

    Great news. For Rishi Sunak.

    Starmer has gone out of his way to avoid the EU debate at the next election. Khan risks undoing most of that good work.
This discussion has been closed.