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Johnson is next CON leader favourite – but only a 14% one – politicalbetting.com

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  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,960
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    No sign of the Tories clawing their way back then.

    The only thing that can save the Tories is an ENORMOUS Culture War, with the Left as the diseased Woke people who will brainwash our gallant sons and sacrifice our white daughters etc

    It almost certainly won't work, and will definitely be ugly, but they will have a go. Sturgeon has just helped

    Only one who could do that really is Boris.

    Sunak and Hunt are far too elite metropolitan liberal for that.

    Johnson is the biggest metropolitan elite liberal out there. He barely knows Britain outside London exists, which is why he threw Northern Ireland under the bus.

    He's also a complete pseud who cons people into thinking otherwise if they don't bother to engage their critical faculties.
    Only in the sense he was London based as Trump was New York City based.

    Culturally however his values like Trump's are now totally those of the white working classes.

    Sunak and Hunt however are still culturally liberal West London, posh Home counties
    Bullshit. He's a posh Home Counties twat who's lived in London all his life. He's absolutely imbued with their values and ideals. He just pretends otherwise. Very successfully, but it's still a pretence.

    The fact that some people can't see it merely confirms my opinion that there are some right thickos out there.
    And Trump was born and raised in New York City and lives in Palm Beach.

    Still didn't stop Boris sweeping the white working class redwall or Trump winning white working class states in the MidWest
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    No sign of the Tories clawing their way back then.

    I think it will not happen for them while there is so much bad news. Strikes, CoL, Ukraine etc. It may take until Labour are forced to show their hand with actual policies before people see that they don’t have all the answers either. But I think things will close up to some extent before the election.

    During my brief winter stomach flu, the other day, I spent 20 minutes over the toilet pan puking my guts up. Yuk

    It was quite painful and messy - the first time I've seriously thrown up for many years. But even as I convulsed and vomited, I could feel my body saying "Yes, this is good, get rid of this, we don't want this". Before anything else happened, before I could think of recovery, whatever was inside me needed to be gone

    Britain feels like that, as a body politic. Before we can do anything, we need to puke up the Tories, they have poisoned us, they are bad fungi dissolving in the stomach, ugh yuk no

    Once we are purged of them, the UK might begin to repair itself (perhaps under a future Tory govt, after a period of Opposition, who knows) . But they need to go first; and they will go
    It's what bothers me about the next two years. Because barring a miracle, Sunak won't call an election until he absolutely has to.

    This desire to puke has overcome us when we're driving along the motorway and it's some distance to the next junction, let alone service area. Oh, and the traffic is crawling for some reason.

    Hanging around for two difficult years when they are already this unpopular is likely to make the final denouement worse. It was definitely a factor in '97.
    I don't think an election in 1995 woyld have been any worse than in 1997, to be honest.
    It sounds like you've got this (I am pretty sure this is what I had)

    https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/norovirus/

    Good news:

    "It can be very unpleasant, but usually goes away in about 2 days."


    Which is exactly what happened to me. Really not


    nice, but gone quickly. There is quite a lot of it about


    https://www.thesun.co.uk/health/20801022/norovirus-increase-warning/
    One thing I learned belatedly on my third bout was that the vomit itself carries the bug. It’s a horrible topic but worth knowing about for those with families. You have to be VERY careful.

    It’s visited our household 2 or 3 times in the last few years but I’ve managed to avoid it somehow despite having to mop up the stuff from carpets and duvets.

    I think there’s a different gastric flu going around at the moment though, lasting a re days and involving temperature abc sore throat as well as the vomiting.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    Foxy said:

    DougSeal said:

    I have just posted news of my promotion on LinkedIn and am taking notes of all my connections who don’t even give me a “like”. I will find them.

    You might enjoy this twitter feed:

    https://twitter.com/StateOfLinkedIn/status/1600152621938900992?t=X5UTg4wTWPjllwuonI7kZg&s=19
    I like this. I also like the "Didn't Happen Of The Year" award spin-off thread.
  • ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    No sign of the Tories clawing their way back then.

    The only thing that can save the Tories is an ENORMOUS Culture War, with the Left as the diseased Woke people who will brainwash our gallant sons and sacrifice our white daughters etc

    It almost certainly won't work, and will definitely be ugly, but they will have a go. Sturgeon has just helped

    Only one who could do that really is Boris.

    Sunak and Hunt are far too elite metropolitan liberal for that.

    Johnson is the biggest metropolitan elite liberal out there. He barely knows Britain outside London exists, which is why he threw Northern Ireland under the bus.

    He's also a complete pseud who cons people into thinking otherwise if they don't bother to engage their critical faculties.
    Only in the sense he was London based as Trump was New York City based.

    Culturally however his values like Trump's are now totally those of the white working classes.

    Sunak and Hunt however are still culturally liberal West London, posh Home counties
    Bullshit. He's a posh Home Counties twat who's lived in London all his life. He's absolutely imbued with their values and ideals. He just pretends otherwise. Very successfully, but it's still a pretence.

    The fact that some people can't see it merely confirms my opinion that there are some right thickos out there.
    Johnson's great gift was to sense what the person in front of him wanted to hear and play it back to them.

    Compare Mayor Boris with PM Boris.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    No sign of the Tories clawing their way back then.

    The only thing that can save the Tories is an ENORMOUS Culture War, with the Left as the diseased Woke people who will brainwash our gallant sons and sacrifice our white daughters etc

    It almost certainly won't work, and will definitely be ugly, but they will have a go. Sturgeon has just helped

    Only one who could do that really is Boris.

    Sunak and Hunt are far too elite metropolitan liberal for that.

    Johnson is the biggest metropolitan elite liberal out there. He barely knows Britain outside London exists, which is why he threw Northern Ireland under the bus.

    He's also a complete pseud who cons people into thinking otherwise if they don't bother to engage their critical faculties.
    I’m not sure what else he could do re NI. Squaring both Brexit and the GFA were essentially impossible if we left the single market. If we didn’t leave the single market, the Brexit were would have revolted.
    So here we are… Both sides have use NI as a weapon, but ironically for traders in NI it’s the best of both worlds.
    May's deal came far closer to squaring the circle than his did.
    I think we’d all be better off if that had passed. I think the Attorney General ruling that there was no unilateral exit for the U.K. killed it though. A great shame.
    I always found that puzzling, surely any treaty can be unilaterally abrogated?
  • DougSeal said:

    I have just posted news of my promotion on LinkedIn and am taking notes of all my connections who don’t even give me a “like”. I will find them.

    Lol.

    It's funny how such things can end up bothering one. I remember feeling slightly similar when I posted mine!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    checklist said:

    kle4 said:

    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    It's like living in Mugabe's Zimbabwe.

    Yesterday, I was charged with breach of the Public Order Act for my objection in #Oxford in September to the proclamation of Charles Windsor as king (the police waited 3 months before charging me). I will be in court on 31st January to plead Not Guilty.

    #DefendDissent

    #NotMyKing


    https://twitter.com/SymonHill/status/1605888172470173697

    I'm going to have so much fun at the coronation pointing out the hypocrisy of the adulterers.

    He was trying to disrupt the proclamation of our new King, treason in a previous age. He got off lightly
    Don't worry the revolution is coming.

    We all know what happened to the first King Charles.
    His son succeeded him as King at the Restoration?
    And screwed up big time in all sorts of ways (including screwing tout court). Foreign policy, leaving an insecure heir who promptly restarted the Civil Wars of Britain and Ireland, spending vast sums on the Navy and then leaving the job undone, and so on and so forth. I'd be ashamed to bear his name.
    Yet the system, with tweaks, survived. So I think HYUFD still wins the round when people try to use the 'look at previous Charles' thing as a motivator.
    The point is that the system did not survive, because he screwed up the succession completely and left a huge mess. They had to tear it up, and get a foreign invasion to start again.

    Most important role of a king in those days.
    I didn't say it was a minor tweak (indeed, it was self described, accurately, as a revolutionary one). I deliberately included the word because, yes, the system as was did not survive.

    However, HYUFD's basic point seemed to be that after Charles I we got a king again (albeit not right away de factor at least), and after Charles II/James II that was still true too. Those gleefully hoping for revolution against Charles III, by contrast, probably don't want him to be following by a king.

    Therefore, if we get revolution against Charles III that ends with us still having a monarchy, HYUFD wins in the comparison stakes, even if it is a completely different kind of monarchy.
    Hmm, given that HYUFD's favourite Divine Right got flushed down the toilet permanently, and the MPs became top dogs, I think 'a few tweaks' is rather understating it. At least James VI could understand English.

    It's not like people really believed in Divine Right even before that period - whatever they might have claimed it never prevented people rebelling against or ousting and killing kings they didn't like. Heck, it didn't stop people fighting against the Pope even. I'm not sure anyone but Charles I and Louis XIV ever really believed it.

    Another reason any claim of it today would be laughable, if even a medieval Baron would have given it short shrift.
    James 6/1 wrote, literally, the book about it.

    "The state of monarchy is the supremest thing upon earth; for kings are not only God's lieutenants upon earth, and sit upon God's throne, but even by God himself are called gods." Etc etc.
    Well, Charles got it from somewhere obviously, I was being intentionally hyperbolic - but my general point was kings actually being treated like they had divine right didn't mean even people who claimed to believe they had that right gave them a free pass on shittiness
  • HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    No sign of the Tories clawing their way back then.

    The only thing that can save the Tories is an ENORMOUS Culture War, with the Left as the diseased Woke people who will brainwash our gallant sons and sacrifice our white daughters etc

    It almost certainly won't work, and will definitely be ugly, but they will have a go. Sturgeon has just helped

    Only one who could do that really is Boris.

    Sunak and Hunt are far too elite metropolitan liberal for that.

    Johnson is the biggest metropolitan elite liberal out there. He barely knows Britain outside London exists, which is why he threw Northern Ireland under the bus.

    He's also a complete pseud who cons people into thinking otherwise if they don't bother to engage their critical faculties.
    Only in the sense he was London based as Trump was New York City based.

    Culturally however his values like Trump's are now totally those of the white working classes.

    Sunak and Hunt however are still culturally liberal West London, posh Home counties
    Bullshit. He's a posh Home Counties twat who's lived in London all his life. He's absolutely imbued with their values and ideals. He just pretends otherwise. Very successfully, but it's still a pretence.

    The fact that some people can't see it merely confirms my opinion that there are some right thickos out there.
    And Trump was born and raised in New York City and lives in Palm Beach.

    Still didn't stop Boris sweeping the white working class redwall or Trump winning white working class states in the MidWest
    So Trump is also an excellent example of the shameless liar approach to political selling.

    Hence his popularity with the religious right, despite his loose attachment to the Ten Commandments.

    It's a depressingly good trick if you can do it.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,404
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    No sign of the Tories clawing their way back then.

    The only thing that can save the Tories is an ENORMOUS Culture War, with the Left as the diseased Woke people who will brainwash our gallant sons and sacrifice our white daughters etc

    It almost certainly won't work, and will definitely be ugly, but they will have a go. Sturgeon has just helped

    Only one who could do that really is Boris.

    Sunak and Hunt are far too elite metropolitan liberal for that.

    Johnson is the biggest metropolitan elite liberal out there. He barely knows Britain outside London exists, which is why he threw Northern Ireland under the bus.

    He's also a complete pseud who cons people into thinking otherwise if they don't bother to engage their critical faculties.
    Only in the sense he was London based as Trump was New York City based.

    Culturally however his values like Trump's are now totally those of the white working classes.

    Sunak and Hunt however are still culturally liberal West London, posh Home counties
    Bullshit. He's a posh Home Counties twat who's lived in London all his life. He's absolutely imbued with their values and ideals. He just pretends otherwise. Very successfully, but it's still a pretence.

    The fact that some people can't see it merely confirms my opinion that there are some right thickos out there.
    And Trump was born and raised in New York City and lives in Palm Beach.

    Still didn't stop Boris sweeping the white working class redwall or Trump winning white working class states in the MidWest
    He didn't sweep.the Red Wall.
    Nor is the Red Wall exclusively white working class.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664

    DougSeal said:

    I have just posted news of my promotion on LinkedIn and am taking notes of all my connections who don’t even give me a “like”. I will find them.

    Lol.

    It's funny how such things can end up bothering one. I remember feeling slightly similar when I posted mine!
    I once got given a new job title (not actually a promotion) which sounded quite grand.

    I had quite a few former colleagues contact me via LinkedIn to congratulate me, many with more than a hint of 'how the f*ck did you get that job?', reading between the lines.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    No sign of the Tories clawing their way back then.

    The only thing that can save the Tories is an ENORMOUS Culture War, with the Left as the diseased Woke people who will brainwash our gallant sons and sacrifice our white daughters etc

    It almost certainly won't work, and will definitely be ugly, but they will have a go. Sturgeon has just helped

    Only one who could do that really is Boris.

    Sunak and Hunt are far too elite metropolitan liberal for that.

    Johnson is the biggest metropolitan elite liberal out there. He barely knows Britain outside London exists, which is why he threw Northern Ireland under the bus.

    He's also a complete pseud who cons people into thinking otherwise if they don't bother to engage their critical faculties.
    Only in the sense he was London based as Trump was New York City based.

    Culturally however his values like Trump's are now totally those of the white working classes.

    Sunak and Hunt however are still culturally liberal West London, posh Home counties
    Bullshit. He's a posh Home Counties twat who's lived in London all his life. He's absolutely imbued with their values and ideals. He just pretends otherwise. Very successfully, but it's still a pretence.

    The fact that some people can't see it merely confirms my opinion that there are some right thickos out there.
    And Trump was born and raised in New York City and lives in Palm Beach.

    Still didn't stop Boris sweeping the white working class redwall or Trump winning white working class states in the MidWest
    So? Blair won the counties in 1997, that didn't mean he cared about rural people or understood them.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    No sign of the Tories clawing their way back then.

    The only thing that can save the Tories is an ENORMOUS Culture War, with the Left as the diseased Woke people who will brainwash our gallant sons and sacrifice our white daughters etc

    It almost certainly won't work, and will definitely be ugly, but they will have a go. Sturgeon has just helped

    Only one who could do that really is Boris.

    Sunak and Hunt are far too elite metropolitan liberal for that.

    Johnson is the biggest metropolitan elite liberal out there. He barely knows Britain outside London exists, which is why he threw Northern Ireland under the bus.

    He's also a complete pseud who cons people into thinking otherwise if they don't bother to engage their critical faculties.
    I’m not sure what else he could do re NI. Squaring both Brexit and the GFA were essentially impossible if we left the single market. If we didn’t leave the single market, the Brexit were would have revolted.
    So here we are… Both sides have use NI as a weapon, but ironically for traders in NI it’s the best of both worlds.
    May's deal came far closer to squaring the circle than his did.
    I think we’d all be better off if that had passed. I think the Attorney General ruling that there was no unilateral exit for the U.K. killed it though. A great shame.
    I always found that puzzling, surely any treaty can be unilaterally abrogated?
    Yes and no. If you do it, see the TCA, you lose goodwill and trust, but there is no actual reason you can’t do it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,960
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    No sign of the Tories clawing their way back then.

    The only thing that can save the Tories is an ENORMOUS Culture War, with the Left as the diseased Woke people who will brainwash our gallant sons and sacrifice our white daughters etc

    It almost certainly won't work, and will definitely be ugly, but they will have a go. Sturgeon has just helped

    Only one who could do that really is Boris.

    Sunak and Hunt are far too elite metropolitan liberal for that.

    Johnson is the biggest metropolitan elite liberal out there. He barely knows Britain outside London exists, which is why he threw Northern Ireland under the bus.

    He's also a complete pseud who cons people into thinking otherwise if they don't bother to engage their critical faculties.
    Only in the sense he was London based as Trump was New York City based.

    Culturally however his values like Trump's are now totally those of the white working classes.

    Sunak and Hunt however are still culturally liberal West London, posh Home counties
    Bullshit. He's a posh Home Counties twat who's lived in London all his life. He's absolutely imbued with their values and ideals. He just pretends otherwise. Very successfully, but it's still a pretence.

    The fact that some people can't see it merely confirms my opinion that there are some right thickos out there.
    And Trump was born and raised in New York City and lives in Palm Beach.

    Still didn't stop Boris sweeping the white working class redwall or Trump winning white working class states in the MidWest
    So? Blair won the counties in 1997, that didn't mean he cared about rural people or understood them.
    Blair though was a cultural metropolitan liberal, hence he also won Islington and Hampstead and Cambridge etc and opposed Brexit.

    Plenty of posh people in rural areas too, it was ex industrial areas and towns filled with the White working class where Boris had his highest relative appeal and made his main gains in 2019
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,658

    Foxy said:

    DougSeal said:

    I have just posted news of my promotion on LinkedIn and am taking notes of all my connections who don’t even give me a “like”. I will find them.

    You might enjoy this twitter feed:

    https://twitter.com/StateOfLinkedIn/status/1600152621938900992?t=X5UTg4wTWPjllwuonI7kZg&s=19
    I like this. I also like the "Didn't Happen Of The Year" award spin-off thread.
    Yes, both are reasons for twitter to exist.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    No sign of the Tories clawing their way back then.

    It's one poll to be fair albeit a very good one for Labour and the first showing them over 50% for a while.

    Conservative mid term troughs usually flatten after 36 months after the election so this should be as bad as it gets but the degree of recovery is the big question. From the disastrous mid 1995 polls the Conservative recovery was slight - on the May 1995 locals, Labour were predicted to win over 400 seats and the Conservatives 150 which wasn't far off the truth.

    I'd have loved to have seen polling from mid-1973 using today's more sophisticated sampling methodology - this was a time of big Liberal by-election wins.

    As a counter point, the Conservatives were regularly third in polls in 1986 but in June 1987 won a majority of 101 seats.
    Fair point about 1986/1987. I am racking my memory to try to recall what brought that change in the Tories' fortunes about but, nope, I really can't. It certainly happened though.
    Neil Kinnock becoming PM?
    Indeed. It's all coming painfully back to me now.

    So here's the question, how does Starmer fare compared with Kinnock?
    Kinnock is a better speaker
    You're being ironic, right?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,404
    edited December 2022
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    No sign of the Tories clawing their way back then.

    The only thing that can save the Tories is an ENORMOUS Culture War, with the Left as the diseased Woke people who will brainwash our gallant sons and sacrifice our white daughters etc

    It almost certainly won't work, and will definitely be ugly, but they will have a go. Sturgeon has just helped

    Only one who could do that really is Boris.

    Sunak and Hunt are far too elite metropolitan liberal for that.

    Johnson is the biggest metropolitan elite liberal out there. He barely knows Britain outside London exists, which is why he threw Northern Ireland under the bus.

    He's also a complete pseud who cons people into thinking otherwise if they don't bother to engage their critical faculties.
    Only in the sense he was London based as Trump was New York City based.

    Culturally however his values like Trump's are now totally those of the white working classes.

    Sunak and Hunt however are still culturally liberal West London, posh Home counties
    Bullshit. He's a posh Home Counties twat who's lived in London all his life. He's absolutely imbued with their values and ideals. He just pretends otherwise. Very successfully, but it's still a pretence.

    The fact that some people can't see it merely confirms my opinion that there are some right thickos out there.
    And Trump was born and raised in New York City and lives in Palm Beach.

    Still didn't stop Boris sweeping the white working class redwall or Trump winning white working class states in the MidWest
    So? Blair won the counties in 1997, that didn't mean he cared about rural people or understood them.
    Blair though was a cultural metropolitan liberal, hence he also won Islington and Hampstead and Cambridge etc and opposed Brexit.

    Plenty of posh people in rural areas too, it was ex industrial areas and towns filled with the White working class where Boris had his highest relative appeal and made his main gains in 2019
    That doesn't follow that he therefore "shares their values."
    Otherwise the good folk of Ashington would be all on a Caribbean Island during working hours courtesy of a Tory donor.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,960
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    No sign of the Tories clawing their way back then.

    The only thing that can save the Tories is an ENORMOUS Culture War, with the Left as the diseased Woke people who will brainwash our gallant sons and sacrifice our white daughters etc

    It almost certainly won't work, and will definitely be ugly, but they will have a go. Sturgeon has just helped

    Only one who could do that really is Boris.

    Sunak and Hunt are far too elite metropolitan liberal for that.

    Johnson is the biggest metropolitan elite liberal out there. He barely knows Britain outside London exists, which is why he threw Northern Ireland under the bus.

    He's also a complete pseud who cons people into thinking otherwise if they don't bother to engage their critical faculties.
    Only in the sense he was London based as Trump was New York City based.

    Culturally however his values like Trump's are now totally those of the white working classes.

    Sunak and Hunt however are still culturally liberal West London, posh Home counties
    Bullshit. He's a posh Home Counties twat who's lived in London all his life. He's absolutely imbued with their values and ideals. He just pretends otherwise. Very successfully, but it's still a pretence.

    The fact that some people can't see it merely confirms my opinion that there are some right thickos out there.
    And Trump was born and raised in New York City and lives in Palm Beach.

    Still didn't stop Boris sweeping the white working class redwall or Trump winning white working class states in the MidWest
    So? Blair won the counties in 1997, that didn't mean he cared about rural people or understood them.
    Blair though was a cultural metropolitan liberal, hence he also won Islington and Hampstead and Cambridge etc and opposed Brexit.

    Plenty of posh people in rural areas too, it was ex industrial areas and towns filled with the White working class where Boris had his highest relative appeal and made his main gains in 2019
    That doesn't follow that he therefore "shares their values."
    Otherwise the good folk of Ashington would be all on a Caribbean Island during working hours courtesy of a Tory donor.
    He shares their anti Woke, pro hard Brexit, John Bull values
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,567
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    No sign of the Tories clawing their way back then.

    It's one poll to be fair albeit a very good one for Labour and the first showing them over 50% for a while.

    Conservative mid term troughs usually flatten after 36 months after the election so this should be as bad as it gets but the degree of recovery is the big question. From the disastrous mid 1995 polls the Conservative recovery was slight - on the May 1995 locals, Labour were predicted to win over 400 seats and the Conservatives 150 which wasn't far off the truth.

    I'd have loved to have seen polling from mid-1973 using today's more sophisticated sampling methodology - this was a time of big Liberal by-election wins.

    As a counter point, the Conservatives were regularly third in polls in 1986 but in June 1987 won a majority of 101 seats.
    Fair point about 1986/1987. I am racking my memory to try to recall what brought that change in the Tories' fortunes about but, nope, I really can't. It certainly happened though.
    Neil Kinnock becoming PM?
    Indeed. It's all coming painfully back to me now.

    So here's the question, how does Starmer fare compared with Kinnock?
    Kinnock is a better speaker
    Starmer hasn't produced a memorable one-liner yet. Let alone Kinnock's "a Labour Government - a LABOUR GOVERNMENT" demolition of Militant.
  • HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    No sign of the Tories clawing their way back then.

    The only thing that can save the Tories is an ENORMOUS Culture War, with the Left as the diseased Woke people who will brainwash our gallant sons and sacrifice our white daughters etc

    It almost certainly won't work, and will definitely be ugly, but they will have a go. Sturgeon has just helped

    Only one who could do that really is Boris.

    Sunak and Hunt are far too elite metropolitan liberal for that.

    Johnson is the biggest metropolitan elite liberal out there. He barely knows Britain outside London exists, which is why he threw Northern Ireland under the bus.

    He's also a complete pseud who cons people into thinking otherwise if they don't bother to engage their critical faculties.
    Only in the sense he was London based as Trump was New York City based.

    Culturally however his values like Trump's are now totally those of the white working classes.

    Sunak and Hunt however are still culturally liberal West London, posh Home counties
    Bullshit. He's a posh Home Counties twat who's lived in London all his life. He's absolutely imbued with their values and ideals. He just pretends otherwise. Very successfully, but it's still a pretence.

    The fact that some people can't see it merely confirms my opinion that there are some right thickos out there.
    And Trump was born and raised in New York City and lives in Palm Beach.

    Still didn't stop Boris sweeping the white working class redwall or Trump winning white working class states in the MidWest
    So? Blair won the counties in 1997, that didn't mean he cared about rural people or understood them.
    Blair though was a cultural metropolitan liberal, hence he also won Islington and Hampstead and Cambridge etc and opposed Brexit.

    Plenty of posh people in rural areas too, it was ex industrial areas and towns filled with the White working class where Boris had his highest relative appeal and made his main gains in 2019
    That doesn't follow that he therefore "shares their values."
    Otherwise the good folk of Ashington would be all on a Caribbean Island during working hours courtesy of a Tory donor.
    He shares their anti Woke, pro hard Brexit, John Bull values
    Blair, even now, would have totally sealed the deal.

    He wouldn't have gone for aspiration and private schools, he'd have outflanked the Tories with practical measures on controlling migration and he'd have totally changed the debate across the centre-left on Woke as well.

    He'd probably still have done HoL and a close deal with the EU, but no-one would care.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,960

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    No sign of the Tories clawing their way back then.

    It's one poll to be fair albeit a very good one for Labour and the first showing them over 50% for a while.

    Conservative mid term troughs usually flatten after 36 months after the election so this should be as bad as it gets but the degree of recovery is the big question. From the disastrous mid 1995 polls the Conservative recovery was slight - on the May 1995 locals, Labour were predicted to win over 400 seats and the Conservatives 150 which wasn't far off the truth.

    I'd have loved to have seen polling from mid-1973 using today's more sophisticated sampling methodology - this was a time of big Liberal by-election wins.

    As a counter point, the Conservatives were regularly third in polls in 1986 but in June 1987 won a majority of 101 seats.
    Fair point about 1986/1987. I am racking my memory to try to recall what brought that change in the Tories' fortunes about but, nope, I really can't. It certainly happened though.
    Neil Kinnock becoming PM?
    Indeed. It's all coming painfully back to me now.

    So here's the question, how does Starmer fare compared with Kinnock?
    Kinnock is a better speaker
    You're being ironic, right?
    He was but then Hague was the best public speaker of any Tory leader this century too, didn't help either become PM
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,658

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    No sign of the Tories clawing their way back then.

    It's one poll to be fair albeit a very good one for Labour and the first showing them over 50% for a while.

    Conservative mid term troughs usually flatten after 36 months after the election so this should be as bad as it gets but the degree of recovery is the big question. From the disastrous mid 1995 polls the Conservative recovery was slight - on the May 1995 locals, Labour were predicted to win over 400 seats and the Conservatives 150 which wasn't far off the truth.

    I'd have loved to have seen polling from mid-1973 using today's more sophisticated sampling methodology - this was a time of big Liberal by-election wins.

    As a counter point, the Conservatives were regularly third in polls in 1986 but in June 1987 won a majority of 101 seats.
    Fair point about 1986/1987. I am racking my memory to try to recall what brought that change in the Tories' fortunes about but, nope, I really can't. It certainly happened though.
    Neil Kinnock becoming PM?
    Indeed. It's all coming painfully back to me now.

    So here's the question, how does Starmer fare compared with Kinnock?
    Kinnock is a better speaker
    You're being ironic, right?
    No. Neil Kinnock is/was a much better orator.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,664
    Starmer might be about to show us what would have happened if John Smith had led Labour into the 1997 election. Smith is the closest leader to Starmer IMO.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,960
    edited December 2022

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    No sign of the Tories clawing their way back then.

    The only thing that can save the Tories is an ENORMOUS Culture War, with the Left as the diseased Woke people who will brainwash our gallant sons and sacrifice our white daughters etc

    It almost certainly won't work, and will definitely be ugly, but they will have a go. Sturgeon has just helped

    Only one who could do that really is Boris.

    Sunak and Hunt are far too elite metropolitan liberal for that.

    Johnson is the biggest metropolitan elite liberal out there. He barely knows Britain outside London exists, which is why he threw Northern Ireland under the bus.

    He's also a complete pseud who cons people into thinking otherwise if they don't bother to engage their critical faculties.
    Only in the sense he was London based as Trump was New York City based.

    Culturally however his values like Trump's are now totally those of the white working classes.

    Sunak and Hunt however are still culturally liberal West London, posh Home counties
    Bullshit. He's a posh Home Counties twat who's lived in London all his life. He's absolutely imbued with their values and ideals. He just pretends otherwise. Very successfully, but it's still a pretence.

    The fact that some people can't see it merely confirms my opinion that there are some right thickos out there.
    And Trump was born and raised in New York City and lives in Palm Beach.

    Still didn't stop Boris sweeping the white working class redwall or Trump winning white working class states in the MidWest
    So? Blair won the counties in 1997, that didn't mean he cared about rural people or understood them.
    Blair though was a cultural metropolitan liberal, hence he also won Islington and Hampstead and Cambridge etc and opposed Brexit.

    Plenty of posh people in rural areas too, it was ex industrial areas and towns filled with the White working class where Boris had his highest relative appeal and made his main gains in 2019
    That doesn't follow that he therefore "shares their values."
    Otherwise the good folk of Ashington would be all on a Caribbean Island during working hours courtesy of a Tory donor.
    He shares their anti Woke, pro hard Brexit, John Bull values
    Blair, even now, would have totally sealed the deal.

    He wouldn't have gone for aspiration and private schools, he'd have outflanked the Tories with practical measures on controlling migration and he'd have totally changed the debate across the centre-left on Woke as well.

    He'd probably still have done HoL and a close deal with the EU, but no-one would care.
    Yes, Blair would have won seats in Essex and East Kent again too. I still doubt Starmer will even if he regains the redwall and some Remain seats in London
  • HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    No sign of the Tories clawing their way back then.

    The only thing that can save the Tories is an ENORMOUS Culture War, with the Left as the diseased Woke people who will brainwash our gallant sons and sacrifice our white daughters etc

    It almost certainly won't work, and will definitely be ugly, but they will have a go. Sturgeon has just helped

    Only one who could do that really is Boris.

    Sunak and Hunt are far too elite metropolitan liberal for that.

    Johnson is the biggest metropolitan elite liberal out there. He barely knows Britain outside London exists, which is why he threw Northern Ireland under the bus.

    He's also a complete pseud who cons people into thinking otherwise if they don't bother to engage their critical faculties.
    Only in the sense he was London based as Trump was New York City based.

    Culturally however his values like Trump's are now totally those of the white working classes.

    Sunak and Hunt however are still culturally liberal West London, posh Home counties
    Bullshit. He's a posh Home Counties twat who's lived in London all his life. He's absolutely imbued with their values and ideals. He just pretends otherwise. Very successfully, but it's still a pretence.

    The fact that some people can't see it merely confirms my opinion that there are some right thickos out there.
    And Trump was born and raised in New York City and lives in Palm Beach.

    Still didn't stop Boris sweeping the white working class redwall or Trump winning white working class states in the MidWest
    So? Blair won the counties in 1997, that didn't mean he cared about rural people or understood them.
    Blair though was a cultural metropolitan liberal, hence he also won Islington and Hampstead and Cambridge etc and opposed Brexit.

    Plenty of posh people in rural areas too, it was ex industrial areas and towns filled with the White working class where Boris had his highest relative appeal and made his main gains in 2019
    That doesn't follow that he therefore "shares their values."
    Otherwise the good folk of Ashington would be all on a Caribbean Island during working hours courtesy of a Tory donor.
    He shares their anti Woke, pro hard Brexit, John Bull values
    Some sort of bull, anyway.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    No sign of the Tories clawing their way back then.

    The only thing that can save the Tories is an ENORMOUS Culture War, with the Left as the diseased Woke people who will brainwash our gallant sons and sacrifice our white daughters etc

    It almost certainly won't work, and will definitely be ugly, but they will have a go. Sturgeon has just helped

    Only one who could do that really is Boris.

    Sunak and Hunt are far too elite metropolitan liberal for that.

    Johnson is the biggest metropolitan elite liberal out there. He barely knows Britain outside London exists, which is why he threw Northern Ireland under the bus.

    He's also a complete pseud who cons people into thinking otherwise if they don't bother to engage their critical faculties.
    Only in the sense he was London based as Trump was New York City based.

    Culturally however his values like Trump's are now totally those of the white working classes.

    Sunak and Hunt however are still culturally liberal West London, posh Home counties
    Bullshit. He's a posh Home Counties twat who's lived in London all his life. He's absolutely imbued with their values and ideals. He just pretends otherwise. Very successfully, but it's still a pretence.

    The fact that some people can't see it merely confirms my opinion that there are some right thickos out there.
    And Trump was born and raised in New York City and lives in Palm Beach.

    Still didn't stop Boris sweeping the white working class redwall or Trump winning white working class states in the MidWest
    So? Blair won the counties in 1997, that didn't mean he cared about rural people or understood them.
    Blair though was a cultural metropolitan liberal, hence he also won Islington and Hampstead and Cambridge etc and opposed Brexit.

    Plenty of posh people in rural areas too, it was ex industrial areas and towns filled with the White working class where Boris had his highest relative appeal and made his main gains in 2019
    Boris is a metro liberal. Look at how he opened up immigration.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    No sign of the Tories clawing their way back then.

    It's one poll to be fair albeit a very good one for Labour and the first showing them over 50% for a while.

    Conservative mid term troughs usually flatten after 36 months after the election so this should be as bad as it gets but the degree of recovery is the big question. From the disastrous mid 1995 polls the Conservative recovery was slight - on the May 1995 locals, Labour were predicted to win over 400 seats and the Conservatives 150 which wasn't far off the truth.

    I'd have loved to have seen polling from mid-1973 using today's more sophisticated sampling methodology - this was a time of big Liberal by-election wins.

    As a counter point, the Conservatives were regularly third in polls in 1986 but in June 1987 won a majority of 101 seats.
    Fair point about 1986/1987. I am racking my memory to try to recall what brought that change in the Tories' fortunes about but, nope, I really can't. It certainly happened though.
    Neil Kinnock becoming PM?
    Indeed. It's all coming painfully back to me now.

    So here's the question, how does Starmer fare compared with Kinnock?
    Kinnock is a better speaker
    You're being ironic, right?
    No. Neil Kinnock is/was a much better orator.
    I have to disagree. I like Kinnock but omg he did tend to waffle.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,960
    WillG said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    No sign of the Tories clawing their way back then.

    The only thing that can save the Tories is an ENORMOUS Culture War, with the Left as the diseased Woke people who will brainwash our gallant sons and sacrifice our white daughters etc

    It almost certainly won't work, and will definitely be ugly, but they will have a go. Sturgeon has just helped

    Only one who could do that really is Boris.

    Sunak and Hunt are far too elite metropolitan liberal for that.

    Johnson is the biggest metropolitan elite liberal out there. He barely knows Britain outside London exists, which is why he threw Northern Ireland under the bus.

    He's also a complete pseud who cons people into thinking otherwise if they don't bother to engage their critical faculties.
    Only in the sense he was London based as Trump was New York City based.

    Culturally however his values like Trump's are now totally those of the white working classes.

    Sunak and Hunt however are still culturally liberal West London, posh Home counties
    Bullshit. He's a posh Home Counties twat who's lived in London all his life. He's absolutely imbued with their values and ideals. He just pretends otherwise. Very successfully, but it's still a pretence.

    The fact that some people can't see it merely confirms my opinion that there are some right thickos out there.
    And Trump was born and raised in New York City and lives in Palm Beach.

    Still didn't stop Boris sweeping the white working class redwall or Trump winning white working class states in the MidWest
    So? Blair won the counties in 1997, that didn't mean he cared about rural people or understood them.
    Blair though was a cultural metropolitan liberal, hence he also won Islington and Hampstead and Cambridge etc and opposed Brexit.

    Plenty of posh people in rural areas too, it was ex industrial areas and towns filled with the White working class where Boris had his highest relative appeal and made his main gains in 2019
    Boris is a metro liberal. Look at how he opened up immigration.
    If Boris was a metro liberal he would have backed Remain or at the very least May's Deal
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,383
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    No sign of the Tories clawing their way back then.

    The only thing that can save the Tories is an ENORMOUS Culture War, with the Left as the diseased Woke people who will brainwash our gallant sons and sacrifice our white daughters etc

    It almost certainly won't work, and will definitely be ugly, but they will have a go. Sturgeon has just helped

    Only one who could do that really is Boris.

    Sunak and Hunt are far too elite metropolitan liberal for that.

    Johnson is the biggest metropolitan elite liberal out there. He barely knows Britain outside London exists, which is why he threw Northern Ireland under the bus.

    He's also a complete pseud who cons people into thinking otherwise if they don't bother to engage their critical faculties.
    Only in the sense he was London based as Trump was New York City based.

    Culturally however his values like Trump's are now totally those of the white working classes.

    Sunak and Hunt however are still culturally liberal West London, posh Home counties
    Bullshit. He's a posh Home Counties twat who's lived in London all his life. He's absolutely imbued with their values and ideals. He just pretends otherwise. Very successfully, but it's still a pretence.

    The fact that some people can't see it merely confirms my opinion that there are some right thickos out there.
    And Trump was born and raised in New York City and lives in Palm Beach.

    Still didn't stop Boris sweeping the white working class redwall or Trump winning white working class states in the MidWest
    So? Blair won the counties in 1997, that didn't mean he cared about rural people or understood them.
    Blair though was a cultural metropolitan liberal, hence he also won Islington and Hampstead and Cambridge etc and opposed Brexit.

    Plenty of posh people in rural areas too, it was ex industrial areas and towns filled with the White working class where Boris had his highest relative appeal and made his main gains in 2019
    Yes, but Boris's appeal to the white working class wasn't because he was one of them, or because he identified with them, you plonker!

    He's a posh-head with upper-class tastes and manners who happened to make a lot of ordinary folk laugh and was a bit of a good time charlie. That was his appeal; just another celebrity, or a bit of a cartoon character. "I like Boris - he's a bit of a giggle and doesn't take himself too seriously".
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,658

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    No sign of the Tories clawing their way back then.

    It's one poll to be fair albeit a very good one for Labour and the first showing them over 50% for a while.

    Conservative mid term troughs usually flatten after 36 months after the election so this should be as bad as it gets but the degree of recovery is the big question. From the disastrous mid 1995 polls the Conservative recovery was slight - on the May 1995 locals, Labour were predicted to win over 400 seats and the Conservatives 150 which wasn't far off the truth.

    I'd have loved to have seen polling from mid-1973 using today's more sophisticated sampling methodology - this was a time of big Liberal by-election wins.

    As a counter point, the Conservatives were regularly third in polls in 1986 but in June 1987 won a majority of 101 seats.
    Fair point about 1986/1987. I am racking my memory to try to recall what brought that change in the Tories' fortunes about but, nope, I really can't. It certainly happened though.
    Neil Kinnock becoming PM?
    Indeed. It's all coming painfully back to me now.

    So here's the question, how does Starmer fare compared with Kinnock?
    Kinnock is a better speaker
    You're being ironic, right?
    No. Neil Kinnock is/was a much better orator.
    I have to disagree. I like Kinnock but omg he did tend to waffle.
    Starmer is tediously long winded. Years of being a lawyer charging by the minute.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,404
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    No sign of the Tories clawing their way back then.

    The only thing that can save the Tories is an ENORMOUS Culture War, with the Left as the diseased Woke people who will brainwash our gallant sons and sacrifice our white daughters etc

    It almost certainly won't work, and will definitely be ugly, but they will have a go. Sturgeon has just helped

    Only one who could do that really is Boris.

    Sunak and Hunt are far too elite metropolitan liberal for that.

    Johnson is the biggest metropolitan elite liberal out there. He barely knows Britain outside London exists, which is why he threw Northern Ireland under the bus.

    He's also a complete pseud who cons people into thinking otherwise if they don't bother to engage their critical faculties.
    Only in the sense he was London based as Trump was New York City based.

    Culturally however his values like Trump's are now totally those of the white working classes.

    Sunak and Hunt however are still culturally liberal West London, posh Home counties
    Bullshit. He's a posh Home Counties twat who's lived in London all his life. He's absolutely imbued with their values and ideals. He just pretends otherwise. Very successfully, but it's still a pretence.

    The fact that some people can't see it merely confirms my opinion that there are some right thickos out there.
    And Trump was born and raised in New York City and lives in Palm Beach.

    Still didn't stop Boris sweeping the white working class redwall or Trump winning white working class states in the MidWest
    So? Blair won the counties in 1997, that didn't mean he cared about rural people or understood them.
    Blair though was a cultural metropolitan liberal, hence he also won Islington and Hampstead and Cambridge etc and opposed Brexit.

    Plenty of posh people in rural areas too, it was ex industrial areas and towns filled with the White working class where Boris had his highest relative appeal and made his main gains in 2019
    That doesn't follow that he therefore "shares their values."
    Otherwise the good folk of Ashington would be all on a Caribbean Island during working hours courtesy of a Tory donor.
    He shares their anti Woke, pro hard Brexit, John Bull values
    Which they don't have.
    Not in my experience anyways. I only live and work here, mind.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,960
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    No sign of the Tories clawing their way back then.

    The only thing that can save the Tories is an ENORMOUS Culture War, with the Left as the diseased Woke people who will brainwash our gallant sons and sacrifice our white daughters etc

    It almost certainly won't work, and will definitely be ugly, but they will have a go. Sturgeon has just helped

    Only one who could do that really is Boris.

    Sunak and Hunt are far too elite metropolitan liberal for that.

    Johnson is the biggest metropolitan elite liberal out there. He barely knows Britain outside London exists, which is why he threw Northern Ireland under the bus.

    He's also a complete pseud who cons people into thinking otherwise if they don't bother to engage their critical faculties.
    Only in the sense he was London based as Trump was New York City based.

    Culturally however his values like Trump's are now totally those of the white working classes.

    Sunak and Hunt however are still culturally liberal West London, posh Home counties
    Bullshit. He's a posh Home Counties twat who's lived in London all his life. He's absolutely imbued with their values and ideals. He just pretends otherwise. Very successfully, but it's still a pretence.

    The fact that some people can't see it merely confirms my opinion that there are some right thickos out there.
    And Trump was born and raised in New York City and lives in Palm Beach.

    Still didn't stop Boris sweeping the white working class redwall or Trump winning white working class states in the MidWest
    So? Blair won the counties in 1997, that didn't mean he cared about rural people or understood them.
    Blair though was a cultural metropolitan liberal, hence he also won Islington and Hampstead and Cambridge etc and opposed Brexit.

    Plenty of posh people in rural areas too, it was ex industrial areas and towns filled with the White working class where Boris had his highest relative appeal and made his main gains in 2019
    That doesn't follow that he therefore "shares their values."
    Otherwise the good folk of Ashington would be all on a Caribbean Island during working hours courtesy of a Tory donor.
    He shares their anti Woke, pro hard Brexit, John Bull values
    Which they don't have.
    Not in my experience anyways. I only live and work here, mind.
    Well they obviously do, otherwise they wouldn't have voted for Brexit and Boris would they!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    No sign of the Tories clawing their way back then.

    It's one poll to be fair albeit a very good one for Labour and the first showing them over 50% for a while.

    Conservative mid term troughs usually flatten after 36 months after the election so this should be as bad as it gets but the degree of recovery is the big question. From the disastrous mid 1995 polls the Conservative recovery was slight - on the May 1995 locals, Labour were predicted to win over 400 seats and the Conservatives 150 which wasn't far off the truth.

    I'd have loved to have seen polling from mid-1973 using today's more sophisticated sampling methodology - this was a time of big Liberal by-election wins.

    As a counter point, the Conservatives were regularly third in polls in 1986 but in June 1987 won a majority of 101 seats.
    Fair point about 1986/1987. I am racking my memory to try to recall what brought that change in the Tories' fortunes about but, nope, I really can't. It certainly happened though.
    Neil Kinnock becoming PM?
    Indeed. It's all coming painfully back to me now.

    So here's the question, how does Starmer fare compared with Kinnock?
    Kinnock is a better speaker
    You're being ironic, right?
    No. Neil Kinnock is/was a much better orator.
    I have to disagree. I like Kinnock but omg he did tend to waffle.
    Starmer is tediously long winded. Years of being a lawyer charging by the minute.
    I'm clearly in the minority on this one so I will retire gracefully.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    kjh said:

    Man goes to doctor's. Says I've got a carrot in my ear and a sausage up my nose. What's wrong with me?

    Doctor: You're not eating properly.

    I know it's silly but it made me laugh.

    He mouthed off.

    Ah, my dressing gown.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    kjh said:

    Man goes to doctor's. Says I've got a carrot in my ear and a sausage up my nose. What's wrong with me?

    Doctor: You're not eating properly.

    I know it's silly but it made me laugh.

    Tough crowd…
    You nicked that from inside no 9!
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,404
    edited December 2022
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    No sign of the Tories clawing their way back then.

    The only thing that can save the Tories is an ENORMOUS Culture War, with the Left as the diseased Woke people who will brainwash our gallant sons and sacrifice our white daughters etc

    It almost certainly won't work, and will definitely be ugly, but they will have a go. Sturgeon has just helped

    Only one who could do that really is Boris.

    Sunak and Hunt are far too elite metropolitan liberal for that.

    Johnson is the biggest metropolitan elite liberal out there. He barely knows Britain outside London exists, which is why he threw Northern Ireland under the bus.

    He's also a complete pseud who cons people into thinking otherwise if they don't bother to engage their critical faculties.
    Only in the sense he was London based as Trump was New York City based.

    Culturally however his values like Trump's are now totally those of the white working classes.

    Sunak and Hunt however are still culturally liberal West London, posh Home counties
    Bullshit. He's a posh Home Counties twat who's lived in London all his life. He's absolutely imbued with their values and ideals. He just pretends otherwise. Very successfully, but it's still a pretence.

    The fact that some people can't see it merely confirms my opinion that there are some right thickos out there.
    And Trump was born and raised in New York City and lives in Palm Beach.

    Still didn't stop Boris sweeping the white working class redwall or Trump winning white working class states in the MidWest
    So? Blair won the counties in 1997, that didn't mean he cared about rural people or understood them.
    Blair though was a cultural metropolitan liberal, hence he also won Islington and Hampstead and Cambridge etc and opposed Brexit.

    Plenty of posh people in rural areas too, it was ex industrial areas and towns filled with the White working class where Boris had his highest relative appeal and made his main gains in 2019
    That doesn't follow that he therefore "shares their values."
    Otherwise the good folk of Ashington would be all on a Caribbean Island during working hours courtesy of a Tory donor.
    He shares their anti Woke, pro hard Brexit, John Bull values
    Which they don't have.
    Not in my experience anyways. I only live and work here, mind.
    Well they obviously do, otherwise they wouldn't have voted for Brexit and Boris would they!
    Well. They didn't vote for Boris did they?
    That's why we have a Labour MP.
    Even though Boris swept the Red Wall taking every single seat between Liverpool and Hull and northwards*

    * Apart from the majority of them.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    Man goes to doctor's. Says I've got a carrot in my ear and a sausage up my nose. What's wrong with me?

    Doctor: You're not eating properly.

    I know it's silly but it made me laugh.

    He mouthed off.

    Ah, my dressing gown.
    Nothing to get in a stew about.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,960
    edited December 2022
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    No sign of the Tories clawing their way back then.

    The only thing that can save the Tories is an ENORMOUS Culture War, with the Left as the diseased Woke people who will brainwash our gallant sons and sacrifice our white daughters etc

    It almost certainly won't work, and will definitely be ugly, but they will have a go. Sturgeon has just helped

    Only one who could do that really is Boris.

    Sunak and Hunt are far too elite metropolitan liberal for that.

    Johnson is the biggest metropolitan elite liberal out there. He barely knows Britain outside London exists, which is why he threw Northern Ireland under the bus.

    He's also a complete pseud who cons people into thinking otherwise if they don't bother to engage their critical faculties.
    Only in the sense he was London based as Trump was New York City based.

    Culturally however his values like Trump's are now totally those of the white working classes.

    Sunak and Hunt however are still culturally liberal West London, posh Home counties
    Bullshit. He's a posh Home Counties twat who's lived in London all his life. He's absolutely imbued with their values and ideals. He just pretends otherwise. Very successfully, but it's still a pretence.

    The fact that some people can't see it merely confirms my opinion that there are some right thickos out there.
    And Trump was born and raised in New York City and lives in Palm Beach.

    Still didn't stop Boris sweeping the white working class redwall or Trump winning white working class states in the MidWest
    So? Blair won the counties in 1997, that didn't mean he cared about rural people or understood them.
    Blair though was a cultural metropolitan liberal, hence he also won Islington and Hampstead and Cambridge etc and opposed Brexit.

    Plenty of posh people in rural areas too, it was ex industrial areas and towns filled with the White working class where Boris had his highest relative appeal and made his main gains in 2019
    That doesn't follow that he therefore "shares their values."
    Otherwise the good folk of Ashington would be all on a Caribbean Island during working hours courtesy of a Tory donor.
    He shares their anti Woke, pro hard Brexit, John Bull values
    Which they don't have.
    Not in my experience anyways. I only live and work here, mind.
    Well they obviously do, otherwise they wouldn't have voted for Brexit and Boris would they!
    Well. They didn't vote for Boris did they?
    That's why we have a Labour MP.
    Even though Boris swept the Red Wall taking every single seat between Liverpool and Hull and northwards*

    * Apart from the majority of them.
    The redwall is defined as seats which voted for Brexit, historically voted Labour but which voted Conservative in 2019.

    So actually Boris won all of it!
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    HYUFD said:

    WillG said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    No sign of the Tories clawing their way back then.

    The only thing that can save the Tories is an ENORMOUS Culture War, with the Left as the diseased Woke people who will brainwash our gallant sons and sacrifice our white daughters etc

    It almost certainly won't work, and will definitely be ugly, but they will have a go. Sturgeon has just helped

    Only one who could do that really is Boris.

    Sunak and Hunt are far too elite metropolitan liberal for that.

    Johnson is the biggest metropolitan elite liberal out there. He barely knows Britain outside London exists, which is why he threw Northern Ireland under the bus.

    He's also a complete pseud who cons people into thinking otherwise if they don't bother to engage their critical faculties.
    Only in the sense he was London based as Trump was New York City based.

    Culturally however his values like Trump's are now totally those of the white working classes.

    Sunak and Hunt however are still culturally liberal West London, posh Home counties
    Bullshit. He's a posh Home Counties twat who's lived in London all his life. He's absolutely imbued with their values and ideals. He just pretends otherwise. Very successfully, but it's still a pretence.

    The fact that some people can't see it merely confirms my opinion that there are some right thickos out there.
    And Trump was born and raised in New York City and lives in Palm Beach.

    Still didn't stop Boris sweeping the white working class redwall or Trump winning white working class states in the MidWest
    So? Blair won the counties in 1997, that didn't mean he cared about rural people or understood them.
    Blair though was a cultural metropolitan liberal, hence he also won Islington and Hampstead and Cambridge etc and opposed Brexit.

    Plenty of posh people in rural areas too, it was ex industrial areas and towns filled with the White working class where Boris had his highest relative appeal and made his main gains in 2019
    Boris is a metro liberal. Look at how he opened up immigration.
    If Boris was a metro liberal he would have backed Remain or at the very least May's Deal
    He is an opportunist.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    edited December 2022
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    No sign of the Tories clawing their way back then.

    The only thing that can save the Tories is an ENORMOUS Culture War, with the Left as the diseased Woke people who will brainwash our gallant sons and sacrifice our white daughters etc

    It almost certainly won't work, and will definitely be ugly, but they will have a go. Sturgeon has just helped

    Only one who could do that really is Boris.

    Sunak and Hunt are far too elite metropolitan liberal for that.

    Johnson is the biggest metropolitan elite liberal out there. He barely knows Britain outside London exists, which is why he threw Northern Ireland under the bus.

    He's also a complete pseud who cons people into thinking otherwise if they don't bother to engage their critical faculties.
    Only in the sense he was London based as Trump was New York City based.

    Culturally however his values like Trump's are now totally those of the white working classes.

    Sunak and Hunt however are still culturally liberal West London, posh Home counties
    Bullshit. He's a posh Home Counties twat who's lived in London all his life. He's absolutely imbued with their values and ideals. He just pretends otherwise. Very successfully, but it's still a pretence.

    The fact that some people can't see it merely confirms my opinion that there are some right thickos out there.
    And Trump was born and raised in New York City and lives in Palm Beach.

    Still didn't stop Boris sweeping the white working class redwall or Trump winning white working class states in the MidWest
    So? Blair won the counties in 1997, that didn't mean he cared about rural people or understood them.
    Blair though was a cultural metropolitan liberal, hence he also won Islington and Hampstead and Cambridge etc and opposed Brexit.

    Plenty of posh people in rural areas too, it was ex industrial areas and towns filled with the White working class where Boris had his highest relative appeal and made his main gains in 2019
    That doesn't follow that he therefore "shares their values."
    Otherwise the good folk of Ashington would be all on a Caribbean Island during working hours courtesy of a Tory donor.
    He shares their anti Woke, pro hard Brexit, John Bull values
    Which they don't have.
    Not in my experience anyways. I only live and work here, mind.
    Well they obviously do, otherwise they wouldn't have voted for Brexit and Boris would they!
    Well. They didn't vote for Boris did they?
    That's why we have a Labour MP.
    Even though Boris swept the Red Wall taking every single seat between Liverpool and Hull and northwards*

    * Apart from the majority of them.
    The redwall is defined as a seat which voted for Brexit, historically voted Labour but which voted Conservative in 2019.

    So actually Boris won all of it!
    Er, no.

    The red wall is a term used in British politics to describe constituencies in the Midlands and Northern England which historically supported the Labour Party.

    At the 2019 general election, many of these constituencies supported the Conservative Party, with the media describing the red wall as having "turned blue".


    Note: 'many', not all.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_wall_(British_politics)
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786

    kjh said:

    Man goes to doctor's. Says I've got a carrot in my ear and a sausage up my nose. What's wrong with me?

    Doctor: You're not eating properly.

    I know it's silly but it made me laugh.

    Tough crowd…
    You nicked that from inside no 9!
    Yep. I heard it tonight and had already forgotten where. Either age or wine or both.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,404
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    No sign of the Tories clawing their way back then.

    The only thing that can save the Tories is an ENORMOUS Culture War, with the Left as the diseased Woke people who will brainwash our gallant sons and sacrifice our white daughters etc

    It almost certainly won't work, and will definitely be ugly, but they will have a go. Sturgeon has just helped

    Only one who could do that really is Boris.

    Sunak and Hunt are far too elite metropolitan liberal for that.

    Johnson is the biggest metropolitan elite liberal out there. He barely knows Britain outside London exists, which is why he threw Northern Ireland under the bus.

    He's also a complete pseud who cons people into thinking otherwise if they don't bother to engage their critical faculties.
    Only in the sense he was London based as Trump was New York City based.

    Culturally however his values like Trump's are now totally those of the white working classes.

    Sunak and Hunt however are still culturally liberal West London, posh Home counties
    Bullshit. He's a posh Home Counties twat who's lived in London all his life. He's absolutely imbued with their values and ideals. He just pretends otherwise. Very successfully, but it's still a pretence.

    The fact that some people can't see it merely confirms my opinion that there are some right thickos out there.
    And Trump was born and raised in New York City and lives in Palm Beach.

    Still didn't stop Boris sweeping the white working class redwall or Trump winning white working class states in the MidWest
    So? Blair won the counties in 1997, that didn't mean he cared about rural people or understood them.
    Blair though was a cultural metropolitan liberal, hence he also won Islington and Hampstead and Cambridge etc and opposed Brexit.

    Plenty of posh people in rural areas too, it was ex industrial areas and towns filled with the White working class where Boris had his highest relative appeal and made his main gains in 2019
    That doesn't follow that he therefore "shares their values."
    Otherwise the good folk of Ashington would be all on a Caribbean Island during working hours courtesy of a Tory donor.
    He shares their anti Woke, pro hard Brexit, John Bull values
    Which they don't have.
    Not in my experience anyways. I only live and work here, mind.
    Well they obviously do, otherwise they wouldn't have voted for Brexit and Boris would they!
    Well. They didn't vote for Boris did they?
    That's why we have a Labour MP.
    Even though Boris swept the Red Wall taking every single seat between Liverpool and Hull and northwards*

    * Apart from the majority of them.
    The redwall is defined as seats which voted for Brexit, historically voted Labour but which voted Conservative in 2019.

    So actually Boris won all of it!
    Is it? How many is that then?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,960
    edited December 2022

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    No sign of the Tories clawing their way back then.

    The only thing that can save the Tories is an ENORMOUS Culture War, with the Left as the diseased Woke people who will brainwash our gallant sons and sacrifice our white daughters etc

    It almost certainly won't work, and will definitely be ugly, but they will have a go. Sturgeon has just helped

    Only one who could do that really is Boris.

    Sunak and Hunt are far too elite metropolitan liberal for that.

    Johnson is the biggest metropolitan elite liberal out there. He barely knows Britain outside London exists, which is why he threw Northern Ireland under the bus.

    He's also a complete pseud who cons people into thinking otherwise if they don't bother to engage their critical faculties.
    Only in the sense he was London based as Trump was New York City based.

    Culturally however his values like Trump's are now totally those of the white working classes.

    Sunak and Hunt however are still culturally liberal West London, posh Home counties
    Bullshit. He's a posh Home Counties twat who's lived in London all his life. He's absolutely imbued with their values and ideals. He just pretends otherwise. Very successfully, but it's still a pretence.

    The fact that some people can't see it merely confirms my opinion that there are some right thickos out there.
    And Trump was born and raised in New York City and lives in Palm Beach.

    Still didn't stop Boris sweeping the white working class redwall or Trump winning white working class states in the MidWest
    So? Blair won the counties in 1997, that didn't mean he cared about rural people or understood them.
    Blair though was a cultural metropolitan liberal, hence he also won Islington and Hampstead and Cambridge etc and opposed Brexit.

    Plenty of posh people in rural areas too, it was ex industrial areas and towns filled with the White working class where Boris had his highest relative appeal and made his main gains in 2019
    That doesn't follow that he therefore "shares their values."
    Otherwise the good folk of Ashington would be all on a Caribbean Island during working hours courtesy of a Tory donor.
    He shares their anti Woke, pro hard Brexit, John Bull values
    Which they don't have.
    Not in my experience anyways. I only live and work here, mind.
    Well they obviously do, otherwise they wouldn't have voted for Brexit and Boris would they!
    Well. They didn't vote for Boris did they?
    That's why we have a Labour MP.
    Even though Boris swept the Red Wall taking every single seat between Liverpool and Hull and northwards*

    * Apart from the majority of them.
    The redwall is defined as a seat which voted for Brexit, historically voted Labour but which voted Conservative in 2019.

    So actually Boris won all of it!
    Er, no.

    The red wall is a term used in British politics to describe constituencies in the Midlands and Northern England which historically supported the Labour Party.

    At the 2019 general election, many of these constituencies supported the Conservative Party, with the media describing the red wall as having "turned blue".


    Note: 'many', not all.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_wall_(British_politics)
    No that is not just the definition,
    otherwise Remain voting Manchester Central would be redwall which is ludicrous
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,567
    Christmas starts now.

    Die Hard on ITV.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    edited December 2022
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    No sign of the Tories clawing their way back then.

    The only thing that can save the Tories is an ENORMOUS Culture War, with the Left as the diseased Woke people who will brainwash our gallant sons and sacrifice our white daughters etc

    It almost certainly won't work, and will definitely be ugly, but they will have a go. Sturgeon has just helped

    Only one who could do that really is Boris.

    Sunak and Hunt are far too elite metropolitan liberal for that.

    Johnson is the biggest metropolitan elite liberal out there. He barely knows Britain outside London exists, which is why he threw Northern Ireland under the bus.

    He's also a complete pseud who cons people into thinking otherwise if they don't bother to engage their critical faculties.
    Only in the sense he was London based as Trump was New York City based.

    Culturally however his values like Trump's are now totally those of the white working classes.

    Sunak and Hunt however are still culturally liberal West London, posh Home counties
    Bullshit. He's a posh Home Counties twat who's lived in London all his life. He's absolutely imbued with their values and ideals. He just pretends otherwise. Very successfully, but it's still a pretence.

    The fact that some people can't see it merely confirms my opinion that there are some right thickos out there.
    And Trump was born and raised in New York City and lives in Palm Beach.

    Still didn't stop Boris sweeping the white working class redwall or Trump winning white working class states in the MidWest
    So? Blair won the counties in 1997, that didn't mean he cared about rural people or understood them.
    Blair though was a cultural metropolitan liberal, hence he also won Islington and Hampstead and Cambridge etc and opposed Brexit.

    Plenty of posh people in rural areas too, it was ex industrial areas and towns filled with the White working class where Boris had his highest relative appeal and made his main gains in 2019
    That doesn't follow that he therefore "shares their values."
    Otherwise the good folk of Ashington would be all on a Caribbean Island during working hours courtesy of a Tory donor.
    He shares their anti Woke, pro hard Brexit, John Bull values
    Which they don't have.
    Not in my experience anyways. I only live and work here, mind.
    Well they obviously do, otherwise they wouldn't have voted for Brexit and Boris would they!
    Well. They didn't vote for Boris did they?
    That's why we have a Labour MP.
    Even though Boris swept the Red Wall taking every single seat between Liverpool and Hull and northwards*

    * Apart from the majority of them.
    The redwall is defined as a seat which voted for Brexit, historically voted Labour but which voted Conservative in 2019.

    So actually Boris won all of it!
    Er, no.

    The red wall is a term used in British politics to describe constituencies in the Midlands and Northern England which historically supported the Labour Party.

    At the 2019 general election, many of these constituencies supported the Conservative Party, with the media describing the red wall as having "turned blue".


    Note: 'many', not all.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_wall_(British_politics)
    No that is not just the definition,
    otherwise Remain voting Manchester Central would be redwall which is ludicrous
    The clue is in the title: Red Wall. It's a set of seats that traditionally voted Labour. Some of the Red Wall voted Tory last time, hence it's a 'big thing'.

    Next time some of the Blue Wall in the south may vote Labour or LD, but when that happens the Blue Wall will not become only those seats that flipped.

    PS Remain voting Manchester Central is absolutely part of the Red Wall - it's a part that remained intact.
  • Christmas starts now.

    Die Hard on ITV.

    "Any Christmas music?"
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,404
    Radio 6.
    Slade at Reading.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,072
    US about to get a bigger chill than the one we just had.

    Potential bomb cyclone is ‘serious stuff’, Biden warns as Arctic blast looms

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/dec/22/arctic-blast-us-weather-holiday-travel
    … The storm could dump up to a foot of snow on the upper midwest between Wednesday and Friday, with blizzards from the northern Plains to the Great Lakes.

    By Thursday night, Oravec added, a bomb cyclone will probably form, driving temperatures to record-breaking lows on the Gulf coast and the eastern US by Friday.

    Wind-chill and hard-freeze warnings extended through much of Texas, Louisiana and Alabama, with a hard-freeze watch for the Florida panhandle. Freezing weather and wind chills cold enough to induce frostbite on exposed skin in minutes were widely expected.

    Wind-chill values dropping to -40F were expected across the west, from the Cascades to the Rockies and into the plains, with some areas seeing wind chill as low as -70F, the NWS said, adding that the extreme cold posed a particular danger to livestock...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,567

    Christmas starts now.

    Die Hard on ITV.

    "Any Christmas music?"
    "This IS Christmas music..."
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,790
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    No sign of the Tories clawing their way back then.

    It's one poll to be fair albeit a very good one for Labour and the first showing them over 50% for a while.

    Conservative mid term troughs usually flatten after 36 months after the election so this should be as bad as it gets but the degree of recovery is the big question. From the disastrous mid 1995 polls the Conservative recovery was slight - on the May 1995 locals, Labour were predicted to win over 400 seats and the Conservatives 150 which wasn't far off the truth.

    I'd have loved to have seen polling from mid-1973 using today's more sophisticated sampling methodology - this was a time of big Liberal by-election wins.

    As a counter point, the Conservatives were regularly third in polls in 1986 but in June 1987 won a majority of 101 seats.
    Fair point about 1986/1987. I am racking my memory to try to recall what brought that change in the Tories' fortunes about but, nope, I really can't. It certainly happened though.
    Neil Kinnock becoming PM?
    Indeed. It's all coming painfully back to me now.

    So here's the question, how does Starmer fare compared with Kinnock?
    Kinnock is a better speaker
    You're being ironic, right?
    No. Neil Kinnock is/was a much better orator.
    God, yes. Now I can see it - Starmer as a 2nd-rate Kinnock. The various Blair/Brown analogies had been not quite sitting right with me.

    Well, that's both satisfied me, and made me depressed. So.... 'thanks'?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,960
    edited December 2022

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    No sign of the Tories clawing their way back then.

    The only thing that can save the Tories is an ENORMOUS Culture War, with the Left as the diseased Woke people who will brainwash our gallant sons and sacrifice our white daughters etc

    It almost certainly won't work, and will definitely be ugly, but they will have a go. Sturgeon has just helped

    Only one who could do that really is Boris.

    Sunak and Hunt are far too elite metropolitan liberal for that.

    Johnson is the biggest metropolitan elite liberal out there. He barely knows Britain outside London exists, which is why he threw Northern Ireland under the bus.

    He's also a complete pseud who cons people into thinking otherwise if they don't bother to engage their critical faculties.
    Only in the sense he was London based as Trump was New York City based.

    Culturally however his values like Trump's are now totally those of the white working classes.

    Sunak and Hunt however are still culturally liberal West London, posh Home counties
    Bullshit. He's a posh Home Counties twat who's lived in London all his life. He's absolutely imbued with their values and ideals. He just pretends otherwise. Very successfully, but it's still a pretence.

    The fact that some people can't see it merely confirms my opinion that there are some right thickos out there.
    And Trump was born and raised in New York City and lives in Palm Beach.

    Still didn't stop Boris sweeping the white working class redwall or Trump winning white working class states in the MidWest
    So? Blair won the counties in 1997, that didn't mean he cared about rural people or understood them.
    Blair though was a cultural metropolitan liberal, hence he also won Islington and Hampstead and Cambridge etc and opposed Brexit.

    Plenty of posh people in rural areas too, it was ex industrial areas and towns filled with the White working class where Boris had his highest relative appeal and made his main gains in 2019
    That doesn't follow that he therefore "shares their values."
    Otherwise the good folk of Ashington would be all on a Caribbean Island during working hours courtesy of a Tory donor.
    He shares their anti Woke, pro hard Brexit, John Bull values
    Which they don't have.
    Not in my experience anyways. I only live and work here, mind.
    Well they obviously do, otherwise they wouldn't have voted for Brexit and Boris would they!
    Well. They didn't vote for Boris did they?
    That's why we have a Labour MP.
    Even though Boris swept the Red Wall taking every single seat between Liverpool and Hull and northwards*

    * Apart from the majority of them.
    The redwall is defined as a seat which voted for Brexit, historically voted Labour but which voted Conservative in 2019.

    So actually Boris won all of it!
    Er, no.

    The red wall is a term used in British politics to describe constituencies in the Midlands and Northern England which historically supported the Labour Party.

    At the 2019 general election, many of these constituencies supported the Conservative Party, with the media describing the red wall as having "turned blue".


    Note: 'many', not all.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_wall_(British_politics)
    No that is not just the definition,
    otherwise Remain voting Manchester Central would be redwall which is ludicrous
    The clue is in the title: Red Wall. It's a set of seats that traditionally voted Labour. Some of the Red Wall voted Tory last time, hence it's a 'big thing'.

    Next time some of the Blue Wall in the south may vote Labour or LD, but when that happens the Blue Wall will not become only those seats that flipped.

    PS Remain voting Manchester Central is absolutely part of the Red Wall - it's a part that remained intact.
    No it isn't, as for starters the redwall only includes Labour strong Leave seats which went or nearly went Tory in 2019.

    Just as the bluewall only includes Tory Remain or soft Leave seats which may go Labour or LD
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    No sign of the Tories clawing their way back then.

    The only thing that can save the Tories is an ENORMOUS Culture War, with the Left as the diseased Woke people who will brainwash our gallant sons and sacrifice our white daughters etc

    It almost certainly won't work, and will definitely be ugly, but they will have a go. Sturgeon has just helped

    Only one who could do that really is Boris.

    Sunak and Hunt are far too elite metropolitan liberal for that.

    Johnson is the biggest metropolitan elite liberal out there. He barely knows Britain outside London exists, which is why he threw Northern Ireland under the bus.

    He's also a complete pseud who cons people into thinking otherwise if they don't bother to engage their critical faculties.
    Only in the sense he was London based as Trump was New York City based.

    Culturally however his values like Trump's are now totally those of the white working classes.

    Sunak and Hunt however are still culturally liberal West London, posh Home counties
    Bullshit. He's a posh Home Counties twat who's lived in London all his life. He's absolutely imbued with their values and ideals. He just pretends otherwise. Very successfully, but it's still a pretence.

    The fact that some people can't see it merely confirms my opinion that there are some right thickos out there.
    And Trump was born and raised in New York City and lives in Palm Beach.

    Still didn't stop Boris sweeping the white working class redwall or Trump winning white working class states in the MidWest
    So? Blair won the counties in 1997, that didn't mean he cared about rural people or understood them.
    Blair though was a cultural metropolitan liberal, hence he also won Islington and Hampstead and Cambridge etc and opposed Brexit.

    Plenty of posh people in rural areas too, it was ex industrial areas and towns filled with the White working class where Boris had his highest relative appeal and made his main gains in 2019
    That doesn't follow that he therefore "shares their values."
    Otherwise the good folk of Ashington would be all on a Caribbean Island during working hours courtesy of a Tory donor.
    He shares their anti Woke, pro hard Brexit, John Bull values
    Which they don't have.
    Not in my experience anyways. I only live and work here, mind.
    Well they obviously do, otherwise they wouldn't have voted for Brexit and Boris would they!
    Well. They didn't vote for Boris did they?
    That's why we have a Labour MP.
    Even though Boris swept the Red Wall taking every single seat between Liverpool and Hull and northwards*

    * Apart from the majority of them.
    The redwall is defined as a seat which voted for Brexit, historically voted Labour but which voted Conservative in 2019.

    So actually Boris won all of it!
    Er, no.

    The red wall is a term used in British politics to describe constituencies in the Midlands and Northern England which historically supported the Labour Party.

    At the 2019 general election, many of these constituencies supported the Conservative Party, with the media describing the red wall as having "turned blue".


    Note: 'many', not all.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_wall_(British_politics)
    No that is not just the definition,
    otherwise Remain voting Manchester Central would be redwall which is ludicrous
    The clue is in the title: Red Wall. It's a set of seats that traditionally voted Labour. Some of the Red Wall voted Tory last time, hence it's a 'big thing'.

    Next time some of the Blue Wall in the south may vote Labour or LD, but when that happens the Blue Wall will not become only those seats that flipped.

    PS Remain voting Manchester Central is absolutely part of the Red Wall - it's a part that remained intact.
    No it isn't, as for starters the redwall only includes Labour strong Leave seats which went Tory.

    Just as the bluewall only includes Tory Remain or soft Leave seats which may go Labour or LD
    Says who?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    In the history of PB can anyone ever remember HYUFD admitting he is wrong?
  • In the history of PB can anyone ever remember HYUFD admitting he is wrong?

    Even GPT-Chat occasionally admits it got it wrong...
  • I am able to create $88/h to complete few jobs on home computer. I’ve never thought that it’s even achievable but my closest mate earning $25k only within five weeks simply v10 working this leading project & she had convinced me to join…
    Discover extra details by going following link...... onlinedollars24.blogspot.com

    And do you regard Die Hard as a yuletide moving picture?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930
    checklist said:

    I am able to create $88/h to complete few jobs on home computer. I’ve never thought that it’s even achievable but my closest mate earning $25k only within five weeks simply v10 working this leading project & she had convinced me to join…
    Discover extra details by going following link...... onlinedollars24.blogspot.com

    And do you regard Die Hard as a yuletide moving picture?
    BA says it’s a Christmas movie, and that’s good enough for me.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587
    A narrative for everyone here:

    Normanby (Redcar and Cleveland) council by-election result:

    CON: 37.5% (+15.9)
    LAB: 34.5% (+2.4)
    IND (Richardson): 13.8% (+13.8)
    IND (McInnes): 10.5% (+10.5)
    LDEM: 3.7% (-12.9)

    No UKIP (-29.8) as prev.

    Votes cast: 1,036

    Conservative GAIN from Labour.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,072
    .

    Christmas starts now.

    Die Hard on ITV.

    "Any Christmas music?"
    "This IS Christmas music..."
    Likewise, movie.
    Comes with self-referentiality.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,072
    Self confessed parcel of liars.

    Sean Hannity admits in deposition he didn’t believe Trump voter fraud claims

    https://thehill.com/homenews/3785645-sean-hannity-admits-in-deposition-he-didnt-believe-trump-voter-fraud-claims/
    … Dominion is suing Fox News for defamation, alleging the company spread false claims about its voting machines in the aftermath of the 2020 election, leading to financial loss.
    Trump’s legal team and the former president’s allies did appear on Fox News and other conservative networks raising false claims about the voting machines, but Dominion would have to prove that Fox journalists knew the claims they made were false or that journalists acted with a reckless disregard for the truth.
    Stephen Shackelford, an attorney for Dominion, made the case at the hearing that the company has strong evidence that Fox News journalists knew claims about mass voter fraud in the 2020 election were false but chose to amplify them anyway, the Times reported.
    “Many of the highest-ranking Fox people have admitted under oath that they never believed the Dominion lies,” he said, according to the Times…
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    No sign of the Tories clawing their way back then.

    The only thing that can save the Tories is an ENORMOUS Culture War, with the Left as the diseased Woke people who will brainwash our gallant sons and sacrifice our white daughters etc

    It almost certainly won't work, and will definitely be ugly, but they will have a go. Sturgeon has just helped

    Only one who could do that really is Boris.

    Sunak and Hunt are far too elite metropolitan liberal for that.

    Johnson is the biggest metropolitan elite liberal out there. He barely knows Britain outside London exists, which is why he threw Northern Ireland under the bus.

    He's also a complete pseud who cons people into thinking otherwise if they don't bother to engage their critical faculties.
    Only in the sense he was London based as Trump was New York City based.

    Culturally however his values like Trump's are now totally those of the white working classes.

    Sunak and Hunt however are still culturally liberal West London, posh Home counties
    Bullshit. He's a posh Home Counties twat who's lived in London all his life. He's absolutely imbued with their values and ideals. He just pretends otherwise. Very successfully, but it's still a pretence.

    The fact that some people can't see it merely confirms my opinion that there are some right thickos out there.
    And Trump was born and raised in New York City and lives in Palm Beach.

    Still didn't stop Boris sweeping the white working class redwall or Trump winning white working class states in the MidWest
    So? Blair won the counties in 1997, that didn't mean he cared about rural people or understood them.
    Blair though was a cultural metropolitan liberal, hence he also won Islington and Hampstead and Cambridge etc and opposed Brexit.

    Plenty of posh people in rural areas too, it was ex industrial areas and towns filled with the White working class where Boris had his highest relative appeal and made his main gains in 2019
    That doesn't follow that he therefore "shares their values."
    Otherwise the good folk of Ashington would be all on a Caribbean Island during working hours courtesy of a Tory donor.
    He shares their anti Woke, pro hard Brexit, John Bull values
    Which they don't have.
    Not in my experience anyways. I only live and work here, mind.
    Well they obviously do, otherwise they wouldn't have voted for Brexit and Boris would they!
    Well. They didn't vote for Boris did they?
    That's why we have a Labour MP.
    Even though Boris swept the Red Wall taking every single seat between Liverpool and Hull and northwards*

    * Apart from the majority of them.
    The redwall is defined as a seat which voted for Brexit, historically voted Labour but which voted Conservative in 2019.

    So actually Boris won all of it!
    Er, no.

    The red wall is a term used in British politics to describe constituencies in the Midlands and Northern England which historically supported the Labour Party.

    At the 2019 general election, many of these constituencies supported the Conservative Party, with the media describing the red wall as having "turned blue".


    Note: 'many', not all.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_wall_(British_politics)
    No that is not just the definition,
    otherwise Remain voting Manchester Central would be redwall which is ludicrous
    The clue is in the title: Red Wall. It's a set of seats that traditionally voted Labour. Some of the Red Wall voted Tory last time, hence it's a 'big thing'.

    Next time some of the Blue Wall in the south may vote Labour or LD, but when that happens the Blue Wall will not become only those seats that flipped.

    PS Remain voting Manchester Central is absolutely part of the Red Wall - it's a part that remained intact.
    No it isn't, as for starters the redwall only includes Labour strong Leave seats which went Tory.

    Just as the bluewall only includes Tory Remain or soft Leave seats which may go Labour or LD
    Says who?
    HYs argument on this convinces me. So I say so. 😝
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,567
    carnforth said:

    A narrative for everyone here:

    Normanby (Redcar and Cleveland) council by-election result:

    CON: 37.5% (+15.9)
    LAB: 34.5% (+2.4)
    IND (Richardson): 13.8% (+13.8)
    IND (McInnes): 10.5% (+10.5)
    LDEM: 3.7% (-12.9)

    No UKIP (-29.8) as prev.

    Votes cast: 1,036

    Conservative GAIN from Labour.

    lol.....
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662

    carnforth said:

    A narrative for everyone here:

    Normanby (Redcar and Cleveland) council by-election result:

    CON: 37.5% (+15.9)
    LAB: 34.5% (+2.4)
    IND (Richardson): 13.8% (+13.8)
    IND (McInnes): 10.5% (+10.5)
    LDEM: 3.7% (-12.9)

    No UKIP (-29.8) as prev.

    Votes cast: 1,036

    Conservative GAIN from Labour.

    lol.....
    Indeed
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507
    carnforth said:

    A narrative for everyone here:

    Normanby (Redcar and Cleveland) council by-election result:

    CON: 37.5% (+15.9)
    LAB: 34.5% (+2.4)
    IND (Richardson): 13.8% (+13.8)
    IND (McInnes): 10.5% (+10.5)
    LDEM: 3.7% (-12.9)

    No UKIP (-29.8) as prev.

    Votes cast: 1,036

    Conservative GAIN from Labour.

    Unmitigated red wall voting disaster for Labour this one.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662

    carnforth said:

    A narrative for everyone here:

    Normanby (Redcar and Cleveland) council by-election result:

    CON: 37.5% (+15.9)
    LAB: 34.5% (+2.4)
    IND (Richardson): 13.8% (+13.8)
    IND (McInnes): 10.5% (+10.5)
    LDEM: 3.7% (-12.9)

    No UKIP (-29.8) as prev.

    Votes cast: 1,036

    Conservative GAIN from Labour.

    Unmitigated red wall voting disaster for Labour this one.
    SKS fans please explain
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507
    edited December 2022

    carnforth said:

    A narrative for everyone here:

    Normanby (Redcar and Cleveland) council by-election result:

    CON: 37.5% (+15.9)
    LAB: 34.5% (+2.4)
    IND (Richardson): 13.8% (+13.8)
    IND (McInnes): 10.5% (+10.5)
    LDEM: 3.7% (-12.9)

    No UKIP (-29.8) as prev.

    Votes cast: 1,036

    Conservative GAIN from Labour.

    Unmitigated red wall voting disaster for Labour this one.
    SKS fans please explain
    Looking at the background of the ward, it returns 3 councillors, mostly all labour, even in the Corbyn years never a Conservative. Till now under Starmer.

    https://www.redcar-cleveland.gov.uk/voting-and-elections/previous-elections-results

    Lack of radical idea’s and outbidding Tories on saying no to nurses - is that really playing it safe or just turning heartland voters off when it comes to elections?

    Elections can easily be lost by playing it safe, and not getting out there on the soap box selling the sunlit uplands, whilst pelted with eggs,
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,020
    edited December 2022
    Molnupiravir Covid antiviral treatment hastens recovery - trial

    Despite aiding recovery, the drug did not decrease death rates or hospital admissions.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-64070392

    At £600 per course, I don't think this will be offered by the NHS in the future. Quite disappointing result as thought were for very high risk people this could be used to get hospitalisations / deaths down further.
  • My statement on the Scottish National Party’s Gender Recognition Bill which passed today. I was disappointed to see sensible amendments to this bill voted down and believe MSPs need more time to address outstanding concerns.


    https://twitter.com/KemiBadenoch/status/1606053418182709250
  • Just finished work until after Christmas. I think I've done seventy two hours in the last week

    Looking forward to a few days off..

    I am on shift all over Christmas and New Year drilling our last gas well for the next few years in the Southern North Sea. Thankfully I will be doing it all from my study in Lincolnshire.

    Then my last contract ends at the end of January and as it stands I will be out of work for the first time in 36 years
  • checklist said:

    I am able to create $88/h to complete few jobs on home computer. I’ve never thought that it’s even achievable but my closest mate earning $25k only within five weeks simply v10 working this leading project & she had convinced me to join…
    Discover extra details by going following link...... onlinedollars24.blogspot.com

    And do you regard Die Hard as a yuletide moving picture?
    100%
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,020
    edited December 2022
    Hold on....so this guy appears to regularly travel from Eastern Europe to protest....whichever way he gets here, doing his bit to add to climate change.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11566411/Czech-Just-Stop-Oil-zealot-travels-800-miles-Prague-London-sentenced-M25-chaos.html
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    edited December 2022

    carnforth said:

    A narrative for everyone here:

    Normanby (Redcar and Cleveland) council by-election result:

    CON: 37.5% (+15.9)
    LAB: 34.5% (+2.4)
    IND (Richardson): 13.8% (+13.8)
    IND (McInnes): 10.5% (+10.5)
    LDEM: 3.7% (-12.9)

    No UKIP (-29.8) as prev.

    Votes cast: 1,036

    Conservative GAIN from Labour.

    Unmitigated red wall voting disaster for Labour this one.
    SKS fans please explain
    Looking at the background of the ward, it returns 3 councillors, mostly all labour, even in the Corbyn years never a Conservative. Till now under Starmer.

    https://www.redcar-cleveland.gov.uk/voting-and-elections/previous-elections-results

    Lack of radical idea’s and outbidding Tories on saying no to nurses - is that really playing it safe or just turning heartland voters off when it comes to elections?

    Elections can easily be lost by playing it safe, and not getting out there on the soap box selling the sunlit uplands, whilst pelted with eggs,
    No IND candidates stood in Normanby in 2019. Two LAB and one UKIP were elected. One or both of the IND candidates in 2022 presumably took votes from LAB. Rita Richardson has had a local profile for a few years. Doesn't look loony right. There's stuff about her campaign on Faecesbook, it seems, if anyone reading this has an account there. Probably a bit of a non-story rather than LAB screws up in the Red Wall.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587
    DJ41 said:

    carnforth said:

    A narrative for everyone here:

    Normanby (Redcar and Cleveland) council by-election result:

    CON: 37.5% (+15.9)
    LAB: 34.5% (+2.4)
    IND (Richardson): 13.8% (+13.8)
    IND (McInnes): 10.5% (+10.5)
    LDEM: 3.7% (-12.9)

    No UKIP (-29.8) as prev.

    Votes cast: 1,036

    Conservative GAIN from Labour.

    Unmitigated red wall voting disaster for Labour this one.
    SKS fans please explain
    Looking at the background of the ward, it returns 3 councillors, mostly all labour, even in the Corbyn years never a Conservative. Till now under Starmer.

    https://www.redcar-cleveland.gov.uk/voting-and-elections/previous-elections-results

    Lack of radical idea’s and outbidding Tories on saying no to nurses - is that really playing it safe or just turning heartland voters off when it comes to elections?

    Elections can easily be lost by playing it safe, and not getting out there on the soap box selling the sunlit uplands, whilst pelted with eggs,
    No IND candidates stood in Normanby in 2019. Two LAB and one UKIP were elected. One or both of the IND candidates in 2022 presumably took votes from LAB. Rita Richardson has had a local profile for a few years. Doesn't look loony right. There's stuff about her campaign on Faecesbook, it seems, if anyone reading this has an account there. Probably a bit of a non-story rather than LAB screws up in the Red Wall.
    Britain elects has a dude who does previews of each byelection. A huge amount of work for probably no money - I'm rather in awe. Here's the normanby one:

    https://medium.com/britainelects/previewing-the-normanby-redcar-and-cleveland-by-election-of-22nd-december-2022-eb2f8ec8e9ee
  • novanova Posts: 690
    carnforth said:

    A narrative for everyone here:

    Normanby (Redcar and Cleveland) council by-election result:

    CON: 37.5% (+15.9)
    LAB: 34.5% (+2.4)
    IND (Richardson): 13.8% (+13.8)
    IND (McInnes): 10.5% (+10.5)
    LDEM: 3.7% (-12.9)

    No UKIP (-29.8) as prev.

    Votes cast: 1,036

    Conservative GAIN from Labour.

    A stretch to get any conclusions from that one with so much movement. The council is split four ways, and run by a LD/Ind coalition, and there appears to be lots of different independents/independent groupings of various flavours.

    This ward's three councillors have flipped all over the place with Lab/UKIP/LD/C/Ind/Local Ind all winning seats in the last 15 years.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507
    dixiedean said:

    I, too, have finished for Xmas. It's been a long term.
    3 PM's and two Monarchs long.
    I am not attending the "compulsory" morning tomorrow to "tidy up classrooms". They can put me on the staff for that. I feel a handy winter vomiting coming on...

    Would you like me to write a note excusing you?
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,190

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    No sign of the Tories clawing their way back then.

    The only thing that can save the Tories is an ENORMOUS Culture War, with the Left as the diseased Woke people who will brainwash our gallant sons and sacrifice our white daughters etc

    It almost certainly won't work, and will definitely be ugly, but they will have a go. Sturgeon has just helped

    Only one who could do that really is Boris.

    Sunak and Hunt are far too elite metropolitan liberal for that.

    Johnson is the biggest metropolitan elite liberal out there. He barely knows Britain outside London exists, which is why he threw Northern Ireland under the bus.

    He's also a complete pseud who cons people into thinking otherwise if they don't bother to engage their critical faculties.
    Only in the sense he was London based as Trump was New York City based.

    Culturally however his values like Trump's are now totally those of the white working classes.

    Sunak and Hunt however are still culturally liberal West London, posh Home counties
    Bullshit. He's a posh Home Counties twat who's lived in London all his life. He's absolutely imbued with their values and ideals. He just pretends otherwise. Very successfully, but it's still a pretence.

    The fact that some people can't see it merely confirms my opinion that there are some right thickos out there.
    And Trump was born and raised in New York City and lives in Palm Beach.

    Still didn't stop Boris sweeping the white working class redwall or Trump winning white working class states in the MidWest
    So Trump is also an excellent example of the shameless liar approach to political selling.

    Hence his popularity with the religious right, despite his loose attachment to the Ten Commandments.

    It's a depressingly good trick if you can do it.
    The religious right got what they wanted from Trump - rightwing judges appointed - so I don't think they were tricked.
    Not sure what the working class red wall voters wanted from Johnson, or whether they got much of it.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    nova said:

    carnforth said:

    A narrative for everyone here:

    Normanby (Redcar and Cleveland) council by-election result:

    CON: 37.5% (+15.9)
    LAB: 34.5% (+2.4)
    IND (Richardson): 13.8% (+13.8)
    IND (McInnes): 10.5% (+10.5)
    LDEM: 3.7% (-12.9)

    No UKIP (-29.8) as prev.

    Votes cast: 1,036

    Conservative GAIN from Labour.

    A stretch to get any conclusions from that one with so much movement. The council is split four ways, and run by a LD/Ind coalition, and there appears to be lots of different independents/independent groupings of various flavours.

    This ward's three councillors have flipped all over the place with Lab/UKIP/LD/C/Ind/Local Ind all winning seats in the last 15 years.
    One conclusion must surely be to remind us not to always assume you can simply apply uniform swing from opinion polls to the whole country. In addition, it highlights a potential difference between what people honestly tell pollsters at point x and actually do at point y. I think the next GE is probably lost for the Tories barring some black swan events which of course never happen [sic] but the scale of the defeat and who, if anyone wins, is way too early to say.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,658
    felix said:

    nova said:

    carnforth said:

    A narrative for everyone here:

    Normanby (Redcar and Cleveland) council by-election result:

    CON: 37.5% (+15.9)
    LAB: 34.5% (+2.4)
    IND (Richardson): 13.8% (+13.8)
    IND (McInnes): 10.5% (+10.5)
    LDEM: 3.7% (-12.9)

    No UKIP (-29.8) as prev.

    Votes cast: 1,036

    Conservative GAIN from Labour.

    A stretch to get any conclusions from that one with so much movement. The council is split four ways, and run by a LD/Ind coalition, and there appears to be lots of different independents/independent groupings of various flavours.

    This ward's three councillors have flipped all over the place with Lab/UKIP/LD/C/Ind/Local Ind all winning seats in the last 15 years.
    One conclusion must surely be to remind us not to always assume you can simply apply uniform swing from opinion polls to the whole country. In addition, it highlights a potential difference between what people honestly tell pollsters at point x and actually do at point y. I think the next GE is probably lost for the Tories barring some black swan events which of course never happen [sic] but the scale of the defeat and who, if anyone wins, is way too early to say.
    I think we will know more after the May locals.
  • Good morning, everyone.

    Football: backed Aston Villa to beat Liverpool at home (4.8) yesterday. Villa has a decent home record (versus Manchester sides they have a home draw and win) and Liverpool have been a bit up-and-down all season so far. Still favourites but the 4.8 for a home win is, I think, too long.

    Kind of tricky getting back into football after a hiatus due to tech woe and the World Cup.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited December 2022
    Henry Dyer

    13h
    👀👀💷 Newly-appointed independent adviser Laurie Magnus appears to have given £3k to Conservative MP Nick Boles in December 2017, "to support the research and writing of a book". Magnus gave the amount along with Lords John Nash (5k), Dennis Stevenson (1.5k), Stanley Fink (10k)

    https://twitter.com/Direthoughts/status/1605973482369454087
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited December 2022
    Adam Bienkov

    Rishi Sunak has appointed the Eton-educated baronet and investment banker, Sir Laurie Magnus, as his new 'independent' adviser on ministerial ethics.

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1605929483386617859
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited December 2022

    carnforth said:

    A narrative for everyone here:

    Normanby (Redcar and Cleveland) council by-election result:

    CON: 37.5% (+15.9)
    LAB: 34.5% (+2.4)
    IND (Richardson): 13.8% (+13.8)
    IND (McInnes): 10.5% (+10.5)
    LDEM: 3.7% (-12.9)

    No UKIP (-29.8) as prev.

    Votes cast: 1,036

    Conservative GAIN from Labour.

    Unmitigated red wall voting disaster for Labour this one.
    SKS fans please explain
    Your hatred of all things SKS is not just obsessional but bordering on psychopathic. If I was Keir, and you were nearby, I'd be worried.

    Yesterday Labour polled over 50% for the first time in a month, with a 26% lead.
    https://twitter.com/Omnisis/status/1605975168664211458

    Anyone pinning hopes on tiny little ward results in council by-elections has totally lost the mental plot.

    Might I suggest you re-engage your brain from damning Starmer, who is doing just fine, to sorting out Sunak, who isn't.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    In a break from our yearly game of Whamageddon, we did a poll. Christmas has come early for Sir Keir with Labour moving over the 50% mark.

    Con: 25% (-1 from 15th Dec)
    Lab: 51% (+4)
    Lib Dem 7% (-2)
    Green 5%(-1)
    Reform UK 6% (NC)
    SNP 4% (-1)

    https://twitter.com/Omnisis/status/1605975168664211458
  • felix said:

    nova said:

    carnforth said:

    A narrative for everyone here:

    Normanby (Redcar and Cleveland) council by-election result:

    CON: 37.5% (+15.9)
    LAB: 34.5% (+2.4)
    IND (Richardson): 13.8% (+13.8)
    IND (McInnes): 10.5% (+10.5)
    LDEM: 3.7% (-12.9)

    No UKIP (-29.8) as prev.

    Votes cast: 1,036

    Conservative GAIN from Labour.

    A stretch to get any conclusions from that one with so much movement. The council is split four ways, and run by a LD/Ind coalition, and there appears to be lots of different independents/independent groupings of various flavours.

    This ward's three councillors have flipped all over the place with Lab/UKIP/LD/C/Ind/Local Ind all winning seats in the last 15 years.
    One conclusion must surely be to remind us not to always assume you can simply apply uniform swing from opinion polls to the whole country. In addition, it highlights a potential difference between what people honestly tell pollsters at point x and actually do at point y. I think the next GE is probably lost for the Tories barring some black swan events which of course never happen [sic] but the scale of the defeat and who, if anyone wins, is way too early to say.
    I think this result is a timely reminder, that everything is still up for grabs in the general election, looks like most of ukip has gone to the Tories, it baffles me why any one would vote Tory at the moment, but they have, in my opinion all three outcomes are still possible in the GE Con Majority, Labour Majority, and what I still believe to be the most likely outcome a hung parliament
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,658
    mickydroy said:

    felix said:

    nova said:

    carnforth said:

    A narrative for everyone here:

    Normanby (Redcar and Cleveland) council by-election result:

    CON: 37.5% (+15.9)
    LAB: 34.5% (+2.4)
    IND (Richardson): 13.8% (+13.8)
    IND (McInnes): 10.5% (+10.5)
    LDEM: 3.7% (-12.9)

    No UKIP (-29.8) as prev.

    Votes cast: 1,036

    Conservative GAIN from Labour.

    A stretch to get any conclusions from that one with so much movement. The council is split four ways, and run by a LD/Ind coalition, and there appears to be lots of different independents/independent groupings of various flavours.

    This ward's three councillors have flipped all over the place with Lab/UKIP/LD/C/Ind/Local Ind all winning seats in the last 15 years.
    One conclusion must surely be to remind us not to always assume you can simply apply uniform swing from opinion polls to the whole country. In addition, it highlights a potential difference between what people honestly tell pollsters at point x and actually do at point y. I think the next GE is probably lost for the Tories barring some black swan events which of course never happen [sic] but the scale of the defeat and who, if anyone wins, is way too early to say.
    I think this result is a timely reminder, that everything is still up for grabs in the general election, looks like most of ukip has gone to the Tories, it baffles me why any one would vote Tory at the moment, but they have, in my opinion all three outcomes are still possible in the GE Con Majority, Labour Majority, and what I still believe to be the most likely outcome a hung parliament
    These are local votes for local people. National politics doesn't always apply.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    mickydroy said:

    felix said:

    nova said:

    carnforth said:

    A narrative for everyone here:

    Normanby (Redcar and Cleveland) council by-election result:

    CON: 37.5% (+15.9)
    LAB: 34.5% (+2.4)
    IND (Richardson): 13.8% (+13.8)
    IND (McInnes): 10.5% (+10.5)
    LDEM: 3.7% (-12.9)

    No UKIP (-29.8) as prev.

    Votes cast: 1,036

    Conservative GAIN from Labour.

    A stretch to get any conclusions from that one with so much movement. The council is split four ways, and run by a LD/Ind coalition, and there appears to be lots of different independents/independent groupings of various flavours.

    This ward's three councillors have flipped all over the place with Lab/UKIP/LD/C/Ind/Local Ind all winning seats in the last 15 years.
    One conclusion must surely be to remind us not to always assume you can simply apply uniform swing from opinion polls to the whole country. In addition, it highlights a potential difference between what people honestly tell pollsters at point x and actually do at point y. I think the next GE is probably lost for the Tories barring some black swan events which of course never happen [sic] but the scale of the defeat and who, if anyone wins, is way too early to say.
    I think this result is a timely reminder, that everything is still up for grabs in the general election, looks like most of ukip has gone to the Tories, it baffles me why any one would vote Tory at the moment, but they have, in my opinion all three outcomes are still possible in the GE Con Majority, Labour Majority, and what I still believe to be the most likely outcome a hung parliament
    I think that’s right. While one local by-election a few days from Xmas means nothing, we can see that Labour is miles ahead in the national polls, and can also see that when it comes to local votes they are not sweeping everything before them. People are fed up with the government but not yet sold on Labour, thus for all parties there is still much to play for.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,658

    Good morning, everyone.

    Football: backed Aston Villa to beat Liverpool at home (4.8) yesterday. Villa has a decent home record (versus Manchester sides they have a home draw and win) and Liverpool have been a bit up-and-down all season so far. Still favourites but the 4.8 for a home win is, I think, too long.

    Kind of tricky getting back into football after a hiatus due to tech woe and the World Cup.

    Yes, seems a reasonable tip. Away teams don't do well on Boxing day.

    3.25 for Leicester at home too.

  • Foxy said:

    mickydroy said:

    felix said:

    nova said:

    carnforth said:

    A narrative for everyone here:

    Normanby (Redcar and Cleveland) council by-election result:

    CON: 37.5% (+15.9)
    LAB: 34.5% (+2.4)
    IND (Richardson): 13.8% (+13.8)
    IND (McInnes): 10.5% (+10.5)
    LDEM: 3.7% (-12.9)

    No UKIP (-29.8) as prev.

    Votes cast: 1,036

    Conservative GAIN from Labour.

    A stretch to get any conclusions from that one with so much movement. The council is split four ways, and run by a LD/Ind coalition, and there appears to be lots of different independents/independent groupings of various flavours.

    This ward's three councillors have flipped all over the place with Lab/UKIP/LD/C/Ind/Local Ind all winning seats in the last 15 years.
    One conclusion must surely be to remind us not to always assume you can simply apply uniform swing from opinion polls to the whole country. In addition, it highlights a potential difference between what people honestly tell pollsters at point x and actually do at point y. I think the next GE is probably lost for the Tories barring some black swan events which of course never happen [sic] but the scale of the defeat and who, if anyone wins, is way too early to say.
    I think this result is a timely reminder, that everything is still up for grabs in the general election, looks like most of ukip has gone to the Tories, it baffles me why any one would vote Tory at the moment, but they have, in my opinion all three outcomes are still possible in the GE Con Majority, Labour Majority, and what I still believe to be the most likely outcome a hung parliament
    These are local votes for local people. National politics doesn't always apply.
    True, but people have still gone out on a wet December day and put their cross by the Tories, remarkable as it may seem
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,790
    edited December 2022
    Dr. Foxy, hmm. Bit marginal for Leicester, perhaps, Newcastle have been doing well this year. Home advantage is nice, though.

    Edited extra bit: going to check the record this season, though.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,658
    edited December 2022

    Dr. Foxy, hmm. Bit marginal for Leicester, perhaps, Newcastle have been doing well this year. Home advantage is nice, though.

    Edited extra bit: going to check the record this season, though.

    Yes, but after our grotty start to the season, Leicester are in form the last matches. Looked good midweek in the cup too, Maddison will want to show what he can do.

    Toney too against Spurs. Ironically his initials spell IBET.



  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398

    Hold on....so this guy appears to regularly travel from Eastern Europe to protest....whichever way he gets here, doing his bit to add to climate change.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11566411/Czech-Just-Stop-Oil-zealot-travels-800-miles-Prague-London-sentenced-M25-chaos.html

    Of course... these people are always riddled with contradictions. Maybe the protests wouldn't be quite so well received if they took place in the Czech republic. Even the 'just stop oil' element of the protest is dubious; many of the cars on the road are electric, and there is a shift away from oil that the UK is leading on.

    Ultimately though there has to be zero tolerance for this type of civil disobedience, it has to become a very serious criminal matter. That way it will stop, because these people ultimately don't want to go to jail. If you just keep taking them to magistrates court and the judge makes sympathetic comments about climate change etc... it just encourages them to keep going.
  • Dr. Foxy, that is true. Hmm.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839
    darkage said:

    Hold on....so this guy appears to regularly travel from Eastern Europe to protest....whichever way he gets here, doing his bit to add to climate change.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11566411/Czech-Just-Stop-Oil-zealot-travels-800-miles-Prague-London-sentenced-M25-chaos.html

    Of course... these people are always riddled with contradictions. Maybe the protests wouldn't be quite so well received if they took place in the Czech republic. Even the 'just stop oil' element of the protest is dubious; many of the cars on the road are electric, and there is a shift away from oil that the UK is leading on.

    Ultimately though there has to be zero tolerance for this type of civil disobedience, it has to become a very serious criminal matter. That way it will stop, because these people ultimately don't want to go to jail. If you just keep taking them to magistrates court and the judge makes sympathetic comments about climate change etc... it just encourages them to keep going.
    These people piss me off as much as anyone else but:

    (1) The right to protest is an essential democratic right. Zero tolerance is not an appropriate answer.
    (2) Have you never heard of martyrs? Or martyr's complex?
    (3) Most importantly, chill. It's nearly Christmas.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,258
    Heathener said:

    Henry Dyer

    13h
    👀👀💷 Newly-appointed independent adviser Laurie Magnus appears to have given £3k to Conservative MP Nick Boles in December 2017, "to support the research and writing of a book". Magnus gave the amount along with Lords John Nash (5k), Dennis Stevenson (1.5k), Stanley Fink (10k)

    https://twitter.com/Direthoughts/status/1605973482369454087

    Laurie is as straight as they come.
  • Heathener said:

    Henry Dyer

    13h
    👀👀💷 Newly-appointed independent adviser Laurie Magnus appears to have given £3k to Conservative MP Nick Boles in December 2017, "to support the research and writing of a book". Magnus gave the amount along with Lords John Nash (5k), Dennis Stevenson (1.5k), Stanley Fink (10k)

    https://twitter.com/Direthoughts/status/1605973482369454087

    Laurie is as straight as they come.
    But Caesar's wife must be above suspicion.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,658

    Heathener said:

    Henry Dyer

    13h
    👀👀💷 Newly-appointed independent adviser Laurie Magnus appears to have given £3k to Conservative MP Nick Boles in December 2017, "to support the research and writing of a book". Magnus gave the amount along with Lords John Nash (5k), Dennis Stevenson (1.5k), Stanley Fink (10k)

    https://twitter.com/Direthoughts/status/1605973482369454087

    Laurie is as straight as they come.
    But Caesar's wife must be above suspicion.
    The only true test of an ethics advisor is a clean out of the rancid deals done by ministers during this government. I won't hold my breath.
  • Heathener said:

    Henry Dyer

    13h
    👀👀💷 Newly-appointed independent adviser Laurie Magnus appears to have given £3k to Conservative MP Nick Boles in December 2017, "to support the research and writing of a book". Magnus gave the amount along with Lords John Nash (5k), Dennis Stevenson (1.5k), Stanley Fink (10k)

    https://twitter.com/Direthoughts/status/1605973482369454087

    Laurie is as straight as they come.
    But Caesar's wife must be above suspicion.
    At least there can be no doubt that Sunak needs an ethics adviser, if he thinks it's okay to appoint someone who has funded a Tory MP as his ethics adviser.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,658

    Heathener said:

    Henry Dyer

    13h
    👀👀💷 Newly-appointed independent adviser Laurie Magnus appears to have given £3k to Conservative MP Nick Boles in December 2017, "to support the research and writing of a book". Magnus gave the amount along with Lords John Nash (5k), Dennis Stevenson (1.5k), Stanley Fink (10k)

    https://twitter.com/Direthoughts/status/1605973482369454087

    Laurie is as straight as they come.
    But Caesar's wife must be above suspicion.
    At least there can be no doubt that Sunak needs an ethics adviser, if he thinks it's okay to appoint someone who has funded a Tory MP as his ethics adviser.
    Is that really an issue? Funding an MP in any party isn't intrinsically unethical.
  • NEW THREAD

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839

    Heathener said:

    Henry Dyer

    13h
    👀👀💷 Newly-appointed independent adviser Laurie Magnus appears to have given £3k to Conservative MP Nick Boles in December 2017, "to support the research and writing of a book". Magnus gave the amount along with Lords John Nash (5k), Dennis Stevenson (1.5k), Stanley Fink (10k)

    https://twitter.com/Direthoughts/status/1605973482369454087

    Laurie is as straight as they come.
    But Caesar's wife must be above suspicion.
    When I wrote my book on Debt collection it never occurred to me to tap up my friends for funds to help. Clearly I do not have the necessary skill set to be a Conservative MP.
This discussion has been closed.