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Johnson is next CON leader favourite – but only a 14% one – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,015
edited December 2022 in General
imageJohnson is next CON leader favourite – but only a 14% one – politicalbetting.com

I have got a feeling based on absolutely nothing that the Tory leadership will come up again before the general election.

Read the full story here

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    Not seeing any value there
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,914
    Boris would have cracked by now On the strikes I think
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    TazTaz Posts: 11,127
    edited December 2022
    There's a good chance he won't even be an MP after the next GE. Cannot see any vacancy beforehand.

    I'd expect the next leader isn't even any of those on that list.

    Labour had selected their candidate for the seat, when Johnson announced his intention to stand Labour have re-opened the selection. The candidate selected was very young.
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    Taz said:

    There's a good chance he won't even be an MP after the next GE. Cannot see any vacancy beforehand.

    I'd expect the next leader isn't even any of those on that list.

    Labour had selected their candidate for the seat, when Johnson announced his intention to stand Labour have re-opened the selection. The candidate selected was very young.

    There's no certainty that Boris makes it to the next election. There's still the Standards Committee investigation to come. Even if Rishi wanted to save his disgraced predecessor, it's not obvious that he could.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,181
    Good grief.

    Kemi Badenoch as next leader is a depressing thought.

    At least with Sunak you get the feeling he is in passing touch with reality.

    ALthough I suppose it could be worse. At least it isn't Braverman.
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    GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,001
    On topic, Kemi is not a bad shout for next leader given hers is one of the safer seats (as @Taz pointed out already, there's a fair chance that Bozza won't even be an MP when the vacancy comes up). I would not be utterly staggered if Mordaunt lost her seat too.

    Post-Rishi, assuming a battering I fully expect them to elect somebody completely bonkers and inappropriate - I'd look at Braverman, Baker or Barclay. Kemi is also a bit crackers, but her odds are unattractive at this stage.

    FWIW I reckon Theresa May probably is undervalued at 100s.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,024
    The rumours about GPT4 are insane. ChatGPT has shocked the world and yet GPT4 apparently makes ChatGPT look like a toy

    This is the Manhattan Project of our times and Feb 2023 might see the AI equivalent of the July 45 nuclear explosion at Alamogordo. A great flash of light to blind the world

    https://www.energy.gov/lm/doe-history/manhattan-project-background-information-and-preservation-work/manhattan-project-1
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    Taz said:

    There's a good chance he won't even be an MP after the next GE. Cannot see any vacancy beforehand.

    I'd expect the next leader isn't even any of those on that list.

    Labour had selected their candidate for the seat, when Johnson announced his intention to stand Labour have re-opened the selection. The candidate selected was very young.

    I agree with Alastair's prediction.

    Boris Johnson will be censured by the Privileges Committee, its recommendations will be upheld, he will face a by-election and leave Parliament, for now at least.

    https://alastair-meeks.medium.com/2023-the-omens-arent-good-baf805633314
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,024
    File this under: Wait, Leondamus told us this


    “No conclusive evidence Russia is behind Nord Stream attack

    World leaders were quick to blame Moscow for explosions along the undersea natural gas pipelines. But some Western officials now doubt the Kremlin was responsible.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/12/21/russia-nord-stream-explosions/
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    DriverDriver Posts: 4,522
    We're in classic Tory leadership "lay the favourite" territory here.
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    Ghedebrav said:

    On topic, Kemi is not a bad shout for next leader given hers is one of the safer seats (as @Taz pointed out already, there's a fair chance that Bozza won't even be an MP when the vacancy comes up). I would not be utterly staggered if Mordaunt lost her seat too.

    Post-Rishi, assuming a battering I fully expect them to elect somebody completely bonkers and inappropriate - I'd look at Braverman, Baker or Barclay. Kemi is also a bit crackers, but her odds are unattractive at this stage.

    FWIW I reckon Theresa May probably is undervalued at 100s.

    Besides, if Sunak's problem is inexperience, where does that leave Kemi (who only entered Parliament in 20blooming17 and hasn't been in any of the big jobs)? Plus the whole "we're not sure if she isn't bonkers" thing. None of that will matter if the vacancy is Leader of the Opposition, but for PM?

    If Sunak were run over by a bus this afternoon (check the driver isn't Boris for starters), who could plausibly take over?
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,024
    Only a total fucking moron could believe that Putin blew up his own pipeline. I’m gonna go back and identify the PB-ers that fit the bill
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    GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,001

    Ghedebrav said:

    On topic, Kemi is not a bad shout for next leader given hers is one of the safer seats (as @Taz pointed out already, there's a fair chance that Bozza won't even be an MP when the vacancy comes up). I would not be utterly staggered if Mordaunt lost her seat too.

    Post-Rishi, assuming a battering I fully expect them to elect somebody completely bonkers and inappropriate - I'd look at Braverman, Baker or Barclay. Kemi is also a bit crackers, but her odds are unattractive at this stage.

    FWIW I reckon Theresa May probably is undervalued at 100s.

    Besides, if Sunak's problem is inexperience, where does that leave Kemi (who only entered Parliament in 20blooming17 and hasn't been in any of the big jobs)? Plus the whole "we're not sure if she isn't bonkers" thing. None of that will matter if the vacancy is Leader of the Opposition, but for PM?

    If Sunak were run over by a bus this afternoon (check the driver isn't Boris for starters), who could plausibly take over?
    Raab immediately, which is a problem in itself given his conduct issues. I'd imagine Hunt would make some sort of play, though it would need to be engineered in such a way that it didn't go to the members.
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    Leon said:

    The rumours about GPT4 are insane. ChatGPT has shocked the world and yet GPT4 apparently makes ChatGPT look like a toy

    This is the Manhattan Project of our times and Feb 2023 might see the AI equivalent of the July 45 nuclear explosion at Alamogordo. A great flash of light to blind the world

    https://www.energy.gov/lm/doe-history/manhattan-project-background-information-and-preservation-work/manhattan-project-1

    Driving instructor father of AI researcher (and son of Liverpool footballer) gets ChatGPT to script three short videos:-
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p79tE16ABOQ
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,985
    Leon said:

    File this under: Wait, Leondamus told us this


    “No conclusive evidence Russia is behind Nord Stream attack

    World leaders were quick to blame Moscow for explosions along the undersea natural gas pipelines. But some Western officials now doubt the Kremlin was responsible.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/12/21/russia-nord-stream-explosions/

    Can't be arsed to read it but who did it? The bookies' fav/2nd fav must be Ukraine and/or USA. It seems like a Dark Brandon type of thing.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,024
    Come on. Own up. Who believed that Putin blew up his own pipeline?
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    TazTaz Posts: 11,127

    Taz said:

    There's a good chance he won't even be an MP after the next GE. Cannot see any vacancy beforehand.

    I'd expect the next leader isn't even any of those on that list.

    Labour had selected their candidate for the seat, when Johnson announced his intention to stand Labour have re-opened the selection. The candidate selected was very young.

    I agree with Alastair's prediction.

    Boris Johnson will be censured by the Privileges Committee, its recommendations will be upheld, he will face a by-election and leave Parliament, for now at least.

    https://alastair-meeks.medium.com/2023-the-omens-arent-good-baf805633314
    In that scenario would he even stand and risk a humiliating defeat ?
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    From the header, if Rishi is still behind in the polls, he will be replaced by whoever the polls show can beat Starmer or at least save as many seats as possible. It will be a transactional relationship based on perceived popularity, not policy.
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    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    File this under: Wait, Leondamus told us this


    “No conclusive evidence Russia is behind Nord Stream attack

    World leaders were quick to blame Moscow for explosions along the undersea natural gas pipelines. But some Western officials now doubt the Kremlin was responsible.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/12/21/russia-nord-stream-explosions/

    Can't be arsed to read it but who did it? The bookies' fav/2nd fav must be Ukraine and/or USA. It seems like a Dark Brandon type of thing.
    Just says "no evidence." Think of it as Lab Leak 2, just when you thought it was safe etc.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,024
    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    File this under: Wait, Leondamus told us this


    “No conclusive evidence Russia is behind Nord Stream attack

    World leaders were quick to blame Moscow for explosions along the undersea natural gas pipelines. But some Western officials now doubt the Kremlin was responsible.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/12/21/russia-nord-stream-explosions/

    Can't be arsed to read it but who did it? The bookies' fav/2nd fav must be Ukraine and/or USA. It seems like a Dark Brandon type of thing.
    You can’t be arsed to read a 600 word article? I pity your students

    Quite amusingly, the WaPo doesn’t speculate on an ACTUAL culprit. Though every words screams ‘American black ops, possibly in collusion with or supporting Ukraine or Poland’

    The UK would be another possibility, but again I can’t see us doing it without American assistance or permission
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,024
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Only a total fucking moron could believe that Putin blew up his own pipeline. I’m gonna go back and identify the PB-ers that fit the bill

    Only a total fucking moron would have invaded Ukraine.
    Ascribing motives yo Putin, which you parse as rational, is hardly conclusive of anything.
    Ah, you were one of the morons. Makes sense
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    GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,001
    Leon said:

    Come on. Own up. Who believed that Putin blew up his own pipeline?

    What was the argument for Russia having done it? I didn't follow the story closely, but I thought the discussion was over whether or not it was sabotage or something else.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,052
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Only a total fucking moron could believe that Putin blew up his own pipeline. I’m gonna go back and identify the PB-ers that fit the bill

    Only a total fucking moron would have invaded Ukraine.
    Ascribing motives yo Putin, which you parse as rational, is hardly conclusive of anything.
    This ignores how close he came to pulling it off. If Zelensky had fled and he'd succeeded in overthrowing the Ukrainian government in the first week, things would look different.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,502
    edited December 2022
    Ghedebrav said:

    Leon said:

    Come on. Own up. Who believed that Putin blew up his own pipeline?

    What was the argument for Russia having done it? I didn't follow the story closely, but I thought the discussion was over whether or not it was sabotage or something else.
    Read Leon's link.
    The state of the argument is basically unchanged since the event.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,024
    Ghedebrav said:

    Leon said:

    Come on. Own up. Who believed that Putin blew up his own pipeline?

    What was the argument for Russia having done it? I didn't follow the story closely, but I thought the discussion was over whether or not it was sabotage or something else.
    There was no argument. It was just ‘Putin is mad and this is a mad thing so mad dog Putin did this mad thing even tho it hurts him’ - ignoring the obvious candidates with means, money and motivation, who actually told us they were going to do it a year before
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,502
    .
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Only a total fucking moron could believe that Putin blew up his own pipeline. I’m gonna go back and identify the PB-ers that fit the bill

    Only a total fucking moron would have invaded Ukraine.
    Ascribing motives yo Putin, which you parse as rational, is hardly conclusive of anything.
    Ah, you were one of the morons. Makes sense
    And as usual, you are someone who has reached a condition of certainty about a currently uncertain event.

    And insults anyone with the temerity to disagree with you.

    Predictable - and worse, boring.
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    GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,001
    Nigelb said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Leon said:

    Come on. Own up. Who believed that Putin blew up his own pipeline?

    What was the argument for Russia having done it? I didn't follow the story closely, but I thought the discussion was over whether or not it was sabotage or something else.
    Read Leon's link.
    The state of the argument is basically unchanged since the event.
    I did but I don't get how turning off the supply is the argument? IANAE but I would imagine that they can just turn off the giant gas tap that goes into the pipeline rather than blow it up underwater if they wanted to stop the flow. And if stopping the flow is to blackmail Europe, it kind of doesn't work if you can't turn it back on again?
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,024
    Nigelb said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Leon said:

    Come on. Own up. Who believed that Putin blew up his own pipeline?

    What was the argument for Russia having done it? I didn't follow the story closely, but I thought the discussion was over whether or not it was sabotage or something else.
    Read Leon's link.
    The state of the argument is basically unchanged since the event.
    Except this is the Washington Post - the Democrat admin’s house journal - gently steering the entire debate in an entirely new direction, and preparing us all for ‘gosh darn it wasn’t Russia but we’ll never know, let’s move on’
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,052
    Leon said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Leon said:

    Come on. Own up. Who believed that Putin blew up his own pipeline?

    What was the argument for Russia having done it? I didn't follow the story closely, but I thought the discussion was over whether or not it was sabotage or something else.
    There was no argument. It was just ‘Putin is mad and this is a mad thing so mad dog Putin did this mad thing even tho it hurts him’ - ignoring the obvious candidates with means, money and motivation, who actually told us they were going to do it a year before
    Yes, it was revealing how many people simply refused to countenance the idea that the US might be involved in doing something like that.
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    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,168
    I'm fairly confident Sunak will lead the Tories into the next GE. Even if the prevailing wisdom is that he's a bit crap, he's unlikely to be as bad as Johnson in terms of personal ethical conduct, and he's unlikely to drive the economy off a cliff as dramatically as Truss.

    Most importantly though the recent declarations from Tory MPs deciding not to stand at the next election is an indication that many have given up hope of defeat at the next election being avoided. Sunak is as good a person to lead them to defeat as any other.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,024
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Only a total fucking moron could believe that Putin blew up his own pipeline. I’m gonna go back and identify the PB-ers that fit the bill

    Only a total fucking moron would have invaded Ukraine.
    Ascribing motives yo Putin, which you parse as rational, is hardly conclusive of anything.
    Ah, you were one of the morons. Makes sense
    And as usual, you are someone who has reached a condition of certainty about a currently uncertain event.

    And insults anyone with the temerity to disagree with you.

    Predictable - and worse, boring.
    But I’m right. You believed the idiotic nonsense they fed you. Putin did it! People of greater curiosity and insight came at it differently. This is a teachable moment for you
  • Options
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Only a total fucking moron could believe that Putin blew up his own pipeline. I’m gonna go back and identify the PB-ers that fit the bill

    Only a total fucking moron would have invaded Ukraine.
    Ascribing motives yo Putin, which you parse as rational, is hardly conclusive of anything.
    Ah, you were one of the morons. Makes sense
    And as usual, you are someone who has reached a condition of certainty about a currently uncertain event.

    And insults anyone with the temerity to disagree with you.

    Predictable - and worse, boring.
    But I’m right. You believed the idiotic nonsense they fed you. Putin did it! People of greater curiosity and insight came at it differently. This is a teachable moment for you
    What's the what.three.words location for Nordstream?
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    Sunak will lead the Tories into the next election. He has cut the Labour lead since becoming PM and slashed Starmer's lead as preferred PM and he polls ahead of his party overall.

    It is also not in the interests of the ERG and Tory right to replace him now. Given Labour will almost certainly win the next general election better for Sunak and Hunt to take the blame for that then the right can take over the Conservative Party again in opposition.

    If Boris holds his seat he would obviously be favourite to be Leader of the Opposition. If not then Badenoch, Barclay and Braverman would all be contenders, with Tugendhat likely the main candidate of the One Nation wing
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    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,168
    Leon said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Leon said:

    Come on. Own up. Who believed that Putin blew up his own pipeline?

    What was the argument for Russia having done it? I didn't follow the story closely, but I thought the discussion was over whether or not it was sabotage or something else.
    There was no argument. It was just ‘Putin is mad and this is a mad thing so mad dog Putin did this mad thing even tho it hurts him’ - ignoring the obvious candidates with means, money and motivation, who actually told us they were going to do it a year before
    So on the one hand your argument is that Putin definitely wouldn't blow up a gas pipeline to threaten the security of other gas pipelines, but on the other hand he will commit suicide by using nuclear weapons because he'll be so ashamed at losing the war.

    You're all over the place. Absolute shambles.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    Ghedebrav said:

    On topic, Kemi is not a bad shout for next leader given hers is one of the safer seats (as @Taz pointed out already, there's a fair chance that Bozza won't even be an MP when the vacancy comes up). I would not be utterly staggered if Mordaunt lost her seat too.

    Post-Rishi, assuming a battering I fully expect them to elect somebody completely bonkers and inappropriate - I'd look at Braverman, Baker or Barclay. Kemi is also a bit crackers, but her odds are unattractive at this stage.

    FWIW I reckon Theresa May probably is undervalued at 100s.

    Baker will likely lose his Wycombe seat
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    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,426
    edited December 2022
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Only a total fucking moron could believe that Putin blew up his own pipeline. I’m gonna go back and identify the PB-ers that fit the bill

    Only a total fucking moron would have invaded Ukraine.
    Ascribing motives yo Putin, which you parse as rational, is hardly conclusive of anything.
    Ah, you were one of the morons. Makes sense
    And as usual, you are someone who has reached a condition of certainty about a currently uncertain event.

    And insults anyone with the temerity to disagree with you.

    Predictable - and worse, boring.
    It's interesting that, here, Leon takes absence of evidence as evidence of absence. Yet when it comes to the origins of SARS-CoV-2, absence of evidence (supposedly due to a cover up) is conclusive proof.

    (That said, I don't particularly see the logic behind Russia doing this, other than to mess with people's heads)
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    kjhkjh Posts: 10,617
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Only a total fucking moron could believe that Putin blew up his own pipeline. I’m gonna go back and identify the PB-ers that fit the bill

    Only a total fucking moron would have invaded Ukraine.
    Ascribing motives yo Putin, which you parse as rational, is hardly conclusive of anything.
    Ah, you were one of the morons. Makes sense
    And as usual, you are someone who has reached a condition of certainty about a currently uncertain event.

    And insults anyone with the temerity to disagree with you.

    Predictable - and worse, boring.
    But I’m right. You believed the idiotic nonsense they fed you. Putin did it! People of greater curiosity and insight came at it differently. This is a teachable moment for you
    Bollocks. The rest of us read stuff on unknown events and absorb it and maybe weigh up the probability. You read stuff and form an opinion of absolute certainty even though there is no certainty and then insult people who challenge you.
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    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Only a total fucking moron could believe that Putin blew up his own pipeline. I’m gonna go back and identify the PB-ers that fit the bill

    Only a total fucking moron would have invaded Ukraine.
    Ascribing motives yo Putin, which you parse as rational, is hardly conclusive of anything.
    Ah, you were one of the morons. Makes sense
    And as usual, you are someone who has reached a condition of certainty about a currently uncertain event.

    And insults anyone with the temerity to disagree with you.

    Predictable - and worse, boring.
    But I’m right. You believed the idiotic nonsense they fed you. Putin did it! People of greater curiosity and insight came at it differently. This is a teachable moment for you
    What's the what.three.words location for Nordstream?
    London.is.BACK
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,024

    Leon said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Leon said:

    Come on. Own up. Who believed that Putin blew up his own pipeline?

    What was the argument for Russia having done it? I didn't follow the story closely, but I thought the discussion was over whether or not it was sabotage or something else.
    There was no argument. It was just ‘Putin is mad and this is a mad thing so mad dog Putin did this mad thing even tho it hurts him’ - ignoring the obvious candidates with means, money and motivation, who actually told us they were going to do it a year before
    Yes, it was revealing how many people simply refused to countenance the idea that the US might be involved in doing something like that.
    I was in America with a German journalist a month back, and I told him there were grave suspicions America was involved in Nordstream (perhaps in collusion with others) and he looked at me like I’d just said “Santa Claus is real”. My suggestion wasn’t just implausible it was disturbingly crazy

    And he was a seasoned journalist in a big newspaper. Quite striking
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,024
    You can’t stand it when I’m right
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    GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,001
    HYUFD said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    On topic, Kemi is not a bad shout for next leader given hers is one of the safer seats (as @Taz pointed out already, there's a fair chance that Bozza won't even be an MP when the vacancy comes up). I would not be utterly staggered if Mordaunt lost her seat too.

    Post-Rishi, assuming a battering I fully expect them to elect somebody completely bonkers and inappropriate - I'd look at Braverman, Baker or Barclay. Kemi is also a bit crackers, but her odds are unattractive at this stage.

    FWIW I reckon Theresa May probably is undervalued at 100s.

    Baker will likely lose his Wycombe seat
    Interesting - I'd assumed it was true blue territory but looking it up, it has trended quite strongly Labour in the last two GEs. Been Tory since 1951 too.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,597

    Taz said:

    There's a good chance he won't even be an MP after the next GE. Cannot see any vacancy beforehand.

    I'd expect the next leader isn't even any of those on that list.

    Labour had selected their candidate for the seat, when Johnson announced his intention to stand Labour have re-opened the selection. The candidate selected was very young.

    I agree with Alastair's prediction.

    Boris Johnson will be censured by the Privileges Committee, its recommendations will be upheld, he will face a by-election and leave Parliament, for now at least.

    https://alastair-meeks.medium.com/2023-the-omens-arent-good-baf805633314
    Always nice to read a piece by the former antifrank. I especially liked this snippet:

    "supporting the Conservatives if you are under age 50 is weird"

    Are you thinking what I'm thinking?
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,985
    NS2 had to be a nation state operation and it had to be a country capable of covert, undersea ops in the Baltic. That's a very short list.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,024
    CHORTLE
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,212
    Leon said:

    The rumours about GPT4 are insane. ChatGPT has shocked the world and yet GPT4 apparently makes ChatGPT look like a toy

    This is the Manhattan Project of our times and Feb 2023 might see the AI equivalent of the July 45 nuclear explosion at Alamogordo. A great flash of light to blind the world

    https://www.energy.gov/lm/doe-history/manhattan-project-background-information-and-preservation-work/manhattan-project-1

    ChatGPT was a toy. Whether AI remains that way is at best uncertain.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,024
    You’re all going to feel even more stupid when Putin gets help from the truck-bomb-building aliens so he can personally launch AI powered nano-nukes at all the Wokiest people on here targeting them via What3Words and starting in Newent
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,617
    Ghedebrav said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    On topic, Kemi is not a bad shout for next leader given hers is one of the safer seats (as @Taz pointed out already, there's a fair chance that Bozza won't even be an MP when the vacancy comes up). I would not be utterly staggered if Mordaunt lost her seat too.

    Post-Rishi, assuming a battering I fully expect them to elect somebody completely bonkers and inappropriate - I'd look at Braverman, Baker or Barclay. Kemi is also a bit crackers, but her odds are unattractive at this stage.

    FWIW I reckon Theresa May probably is undervalued at 100s.

    Baker will likely lose his Wycombe seat
    Interesting - I'd assumed it was true blue territory but looking it up, it has trended quite strongly Labour in the last two GEs. Been Tory since 1951 too.
    Similarly. I was surprised by @HYUFD post, but he may well be right. I also assumed the challenger would be LD, but they aren't.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,052
    edited December 2022
    @bctallis
    “This journey to Washington from Zelenskiy, it is an act of desperation."

    Disgraceful from Germany’s main, public-funded news ‘analysis’ show.


    https://twitter.com/bctallis/status/1605825461837234177
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    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,847
    Would be cool if it were the Brits who blew up Nordstream. But it probably wasn’t.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,024
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    The rumours about GPT4 are insane. ChatGPT has shocked the world and yet GPT4 apparently makes ChatGPT look like a toy

    This is the Manhattan Project of our times and Feb 2023 might see the AI equivalent of the July 45 nuclear explosion at Alamogordo. A great flash of light to blind the world

    https://www.energy.gov/lm/doe-history/manhattan-project-background-information-and-preservation-work/manhattan-project-1

    ChatGPT was a toy. Whether AI remains that way is at best uncertain.
    If you think ChatGPT is a ‘toy’ you are being uncharacteristically dim


    .@SteveForbesCEO discusses ChatGPT and its massive impact on writing, teaching, and the future of education. trib.al/tPTIsUL #WhatsAhead

    https://twitter.com/forbes/status/1602621160537018370?s=61&t=JG-8fpanro3Ocj_E-O9kZA
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    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,168
    One of the things that often makes next leader betting difficult is uncertainty about when the contest will take place, but it strikes me that this is one of those times when we can be pretty confident the contest will take place at a specific time - after a Conservative defeat at the next general election.

    It follows from this that we can make some fairly good deductions about some MPs who won't be contenders, because they will most likely have lost their seat at the election (if not before) - e.g. Johnson, Hunt, Raab, possibly others.

    A more detailed next step would be to examine the publicly declared support from previous leadership elections of the 150-200 Tory MPs most likely to retain their seats, and use that information to deduce the likely pair of candidates for the party membership to choose the least realistic from.
  • Options
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    The rumours about GPT4 are insane. ChatGPT has shocked the world and yet GPT4 apparently makes ChatGPT look like a toy

    This is the Manhattan Project of our times and Feb 2023 might see the AI equivalent of the July 45 nuclear explosion at Alamogordo. A great flash of light to blind the world

    https://www.energy.gov/lm/doe-history/manhattan-project-background-information-and-preservation-work/manhattan-project-1

    ChatGPT was a toy. Whether AI remains that way is at best uncertain.
    A toy that has passed Bar exams in various US states. Nothing to worry about in that, obvs.
  • Options

    Would be cool if it were the Brits who blew up Nordstream. But it probably wasn’t.

    Great war movie, anyway.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,937
    Leon said:

    Only a total fucking moron could believe that Putin blew up his own pipeline. I’m gonna go back and identify the PB-ers that fit the bill

    Only a total moron would have discounted the possibility.

    I still reckon it may have been the Russians (and if that means you call me a moron; it's an honour to be taken as a moron by someone who is as deeply mired in moronity as your good self). As DA says below, there are very few countries that have the capability to do this, especially undetected, and fewer for whom it makes any sense. And if it was the Yanks, they would be firmly blaming the Russians for it, wouldn't they?

    As for 'only a total fucking moron could believe that Putin blew up his own pipeline'; myself and others explained *why* he might have done so at the time. Only a total fucking moron would just hand-wave away those explanations because there is another more DRAMATIC!!!! answer.

    The big question currently is the identity of the two large ships that appeared in the area days before with their AIS transmitters turned off. That's suspicious; and they could have belonged to any large actor. Likewise, there were Russian submarines in the area beforehand.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,330
    Dura_Ace said:

    NS2 had to be a nation state operation and it had to be a country capable of covert, undersea ops in the Baltic. That's a very short list.

    Why does it have to be a nation state?

    Apparently the water where the blasts were is 80m deep. Which is fancy gas mix diving depth.

    Someone could have put some explosives in a waterproof container with an number of fusing methods - Bushnell demonstrated this a couple of centuries ago - sling it over the side of a boat on a line, until it snagged on the pipeline. No diving required…

    A camera on a line to see what you are doing is cheap hobbyist gear. An ROV is more expensive - the price of a good second hand car….
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    Leon said:

    Only a total fucking moron could believe that Putin blew up his own pipeline. I’m gonna go back and identify the PB-ers that fit the bill

    Yes, I did say so at the time, it was likely to be America as it once and for all ends any Russian involvement in European energy markets and removes any risk of backsliding by Germany and the Netherlands both of whom were hugely exposed to Russian gas supplies.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,024

    Leon said:

    Only a total fucking moron could believe that Putin blew up his own pipeline. I’m gonna go back and identify the PB-ers that fit the bill

    Only a total moron would have discounted the possibility.

    I still reckon it may have been the Russians (and if that means you call me a moron; it's an honour to be taken as a moron by someone who is as deeply mired in moronity as your good self). As DA says below, there are very few countries that have the capability to do this, especially undetected, and fewer for whom it makes any sense. And if it was the Yanks, they would be firmly blaming the Russians for it, wouldn't they?

    As for 'only a total fucking moron could believe that Putin blew up his own pipeline'; myself and others explained *why* he might have done so at the time. Only a total fucking moron would just hand-wave away those explanations because there is another more DRAMATIC!!!! answer.

    The big question currently is the identity of the two large ships that appeared in the area days before with their AIS transmitters turned off. That's suspicious; and they could have belonged to any large actor. Likewise, there were Russian submarines in the area beforehand.
    Ah, you too. Of course

    TICK
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,937

    Dura_Ace said:

    NS2 had to be a nation state operation and it had to be a country capable of covert, undersea ops in the Baltic. That's a very short list.

    Why does it have to be a nation state?

    Apparently the water where the blasts were is 80m deep. Which is fancy gas mix diving depth.

    Someone could have put some explosives in a waterproof container with an number of fusing methods - Bushnell demonstrated this a couple of centuries ago - sling it over the side of a boat on a line, until it snagged on the pipeline. No diving required…

    A camera on a line to see what you are doing is cheap hobbyist gear. An ROV is more expensive - the price of a good second hand car….
    Perhaps it was the ghost of Lionel Crabb...
  • Options
    Money Will Kill ChatGPT’s Magic
    Buzzy products like ChatGPT and DALL-E 2 will have to turn a profit

    https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2022/12/chatgpt-ai-chatbots-openai-cost-regulations/672539/

    I am prepared to pay for this, if individual subs becomes the funding model. There will be the biggest social divide of all time between the GPT enabled, and not.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    Would be cool if it were the Brits who blew up Nordstream. But it probably wasn’t.

    The Russians suspect us but I think it was the Americans, maybe with our help wrt planning.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,024
    checklist said:

    Would be cool if it were the Brits who blew up Nordstream. But it probably wasn’t.

    Great war movie, anyway.
    Already some cool memes


  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,937
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Only a total fucking moron could believe that Putin blew up his own pipeline. I’m gonna go back and identify the PB-ers that fit the bill

    Only a total moron would have discounted the possibility.

    I still reckon it may have been the Russians (and if that means you call me a moron; it's an honour to be taken as a moron by someone who is as deeply mired in moronity as your good self). As DA says below, there are very few countries that have the capability to do this, especially undetected, and fewer for whom it makes any sense. And if it was the Yanks, they would be firmly blaming the Russians for it, wouldn't they?

    As for 'only a total fucking moron could believe that Putin blew up his own pipeline'; myself and others explained *why* he might have done so at the time. Only a total fucking moron would just hand-wave away those explanations because there is another more DRAMATIC!!!! answer.

    The big question currently is the identity of the two large ships that appeared in the area days before with their AIS transmitters turned off. That's suspicious; and they could have belonged to any large actor. Likewise, there were Russian submarines in the area beforehand.
    Ah, you too. Of course

    TICK
    Don't tell him, Pike!
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,326

    @bctallis
    “This journey to Washington from Zelenskiy, it is an act of desperation."

    Disgraceful from Germany’s main, public-funded news ‘analysis’ show.


    https://twitter.com/bctallis/status/1605825461837234177

    It's labelled as "Meinung" - a personal comment not endorsed by the broadcaster - and if you hear the whole clip she's basically saying that Ukraine will need much more support but is worried that it won't go through Congress due to Republican reluctance, hence Zelensky making a personal appeal. I think she's mistaken, but it's not a "disgraceful" opinion from the broadcaster.
  • Options

    One of the things that often makes next leader betting difficult is uncertainty about when the contest will take place, but it strikes me that this is one of those times when we can be pretty confident the contest will take place at a specific time - after a Conservative defeat at the next general election.

    It follows from this that we can make some fairly good deductions about some MPs who won't be contenders, because they will most likely have lost their seat at the election (if not before) - e.g. Johnson, Hunt, Raab, possibly others.

    A more detailed next step would be to examine the publicly declared support from previous leadership elections of the 150-200 Tory MPs most likely to retain their seats, and use that information to deduce the likely pair of candidates for the party membership to choose the least realistic from.

    What (if anything) have the Conservatives said about chicken running for the boundary review and next election?
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,330

    Dura_Ace said:

    NS2 had to be a nation state operation and it had to be a country capable of covert, undersea ops in the Baltic. That's a very short list.

    Why does it have to be a nation state?

    Apparently the water where the blasts were is 80m deep. Which is fancy gas mix diving depth.

    Someone could have put some explosives in a waterproof container with an number of fusing methods - Bushnell demonstrated this a couple of centuries ago - sling it over the side of a boat on a line, until it snagged on the pipeline. No diving required…

    A camera on a line to see what you are doing is cheap hobbyist gear. An ROV is more expensive - the price of a good second hand car….
    Perhaps it was the ghost of Lionel Crabb...
    I thought he was defector, to Russia? 😳

    Seriously, unless the area was actually being monitored, so that it had to be done from a covert sub, nearly anyone could have done this.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,937
    One of the problems with the "it wuz the west wot did it" claims over NS2 is that the geopolitical ramifications of blowing up the pipeline are significant, and could even damage the fragile consensus to help Ukraine. It is also hard to do in such a way you can guarantee that you would get away with it.

    Another problem is that NS1 and NS2 were dead projects anyway, at least for the course of the war.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,650
    checklist said:

    Money Will Kill ChatGPT’s Magic
    Buzzy products like ChatGPT and DALL-E 2 will have to turn a profit

    https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2022/12/chatgpt-ai-chatbots-openai-cost-regulations/672539/

    I am prepared to pay for this, if individual subs becomes the funding model. There will be the biggest social divide of all time between the GPT enabled, and not.

    Wtf does it do for you, though, beyond providing a mild distraction?
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,847
    edited December 2022
    Dura_Ace said:

    NS2 had to be a nation state operation and it had to be a country capable of covert, undersea ops in the Baltic. That's a very short list.

    MaxPB said:

    Would be cool if it were the Brits who blew up Nordstream. But it probably wasn’t.

    The Russians suspect us but I think it was the Americans, maybe with our help wrt planning.
    The Poles might have done it and simply kept quiet.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,937
    Leon said:

    checklist said:

    Would be cool if it were the Brits who blew up Nordstream. But it probably wasn’t.

    Great war movie, anyway.
    Already some cool memes


    That's been around for months.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,847
    I am prepared to pay for ChatGPT if they take the guard rails off.

    But if they take the guard rails off it becomes quite dangerous, surely even more so with GPT4.

    I’m not sure what the solution is here.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,953
    Leon said:

    The rumours about GPT4 are insane. ChatGPT has shocked the world and yet GPT4 apparently makes ChatGPT look like a toy

    This is the Manhattan Project of our times and Feb 2023 might see the AI equivalent of the July 45 nuclear explosion at Alamogordo. A great flash of light to blind the world

    https://www.energy.gov/lm/doe-history/manhattan-project-background-information-and-preservation-work/manhattan-project-1

    OpenAI is trying to raise a massive funding round right now, so they do have a little bit of a vested interest in everyone believing that something 10 or 100x better is just around the corner.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,953
    Leon said:

    File this under: Wait, Leondamus told us this


    “No conclusive evidence Russia is behind Nord Stream attack

    World leaders were quick to blame Moscow for explosions along the undersea natural gas pipelines. But some Western officials now doubt the Kremlin was responsible.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/12/21/russia-nord-stream-explosions/

    There's no conclusive evidence that Covid was a lab leak either.

    Yet in both cases, it remains the most likely scenario.
  • Options
    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,426
    Dura_Ace said:

    NS2 had to be a nation state operation and it had to be a country capable of covert, undersea ops in the Baltic. That's a very short list.

    I'm thinking it's the formerly Ukrainian dolphins, patriotically resisting their new Russian masters
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_marine_mammal#Russian_Federation,_Ukraine,_and_Iran
  • Options
    ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 2,923

    checklist said:

    Money Will Kill ChatGPT’s Magic
    Buzzy products like ChatGPT and DALL-E 2 will have to turn a profit

    https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2022/12/chatgpt-ai-chatbots-openai-cost-regulations/672539/

    I am prepared to pay for this, if individual subs becomes the funding model. There will be the biggest social divide of all time between the GPT enabled, and not.

    Wtf does it do for you, though, beyond providing a mild distraction?
    I work in IT - and it's really very useful at writing code, explaining existing code, translating things etc. Also can be a handy research tool compared to googling about, reading blog-posts, stack-overflow, etc (obviously needs some double-checking, but that's usually the case with random blogs too).

    As a really simple example, I asked it to write me a script to download videos from streaming services using the 'youtube-dl' tool. 30 seconds or so later - done. Then asked it to change the script to bring up a VPN based on the country-code of the URL to get around location restrictions. 30 seconds later - done. Asked it to do a version where it would use a specific VPN configuration based on the URL/domain, then fall back to the country-code if there wasn't a match. 30 seconds later - done.

    Nothing I couldn't have done myself - but I certainly wouldn't have got it done in under two minutes.
  • Options
    kamskikamski Posts: 4,239
    Leon said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Leon said:

    Come on. Own up. Who believed that Putin blew up his own pipeline?

    What was the argument for Russia having done it? I didn't follow the story closely, but I thought the discussion was over whether or not it was sabotage or something else.
    There was no argument. It was just ‘Putin is mad and this is a mad thing so mad dog Putin did this mad thing even tho it hurts him’ - ignoring the obvious candidates with means, money and motivation, who actually told us they were going to do it a year before
    The Americans didn't say a year before that they were going to do it. You are so full of shit.
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,412
    I must admit, it seemed an odd thing for Putin to do, to destroy the infrastructure responsible for delivering, I think, Russia's second greatest source of foreign income.
    The most persuasive logic seemed to be "this is a bad thing and a nefarious act"
    "Russia does bad things and acts nefariously"
    "therefore this was Russia".
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,168
    ohnotnow said:

    checklist said:

    Money Will Kill ChatGPT’s Magic
    Buzzy products like ChatGPT and DALL-E 2 will have to turn a profit

    https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2022/12/chatgpt-ai-chatbots-openai-cost-regulations/672539/

    I am prepared to pay for this, if individual subs becomes the funding model. There will be the biggest social divide of all time between the GPT enabled, and not.

    Wtf does it do for you, though, beyond providing a mild distraction?
    I work in IT - and it's really very useful at writing code, explaining existing code, translating things etc. Also can be a handy research tool compared to googling about, reading blog-posts, stack-overflow, etc (obviously needs some double-checking, but that's usually the case with random blogs too).

    As a really simple example, I asked it to write me a script to download videos from streaming services using the 'youtube-dl' tool. 30 seconds or so later - done. Then asked it to change the script to bring up a VPN based on the country-code of the URL to get around location restrictions. 30 seconds later - done. Asked it to do a version where it would use a specific VPN configuration based on the URL/domain, then fall back to the country-code if there wasn't a match. 30 seconds later - done.

    Nothing I couldn't have done myself - but I certainly wouldn't have got it done in under two minutes.
    This sounds a lot like the transition in computer programming that happened when the first compilers were developed. It's a pretty major change and a challenge to the business models of a number of large companies, as well as the livelihoods of numerous code monkeys.
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,412
    Cookie said:

    I must admit, it seemed an odd thing for Putin to do, to destroy the infrastructure responsible for delivering, I think, Russia's second greatest source of foreign income.
    The most persuasive logic seemed to be "this is a bad thing and a nefarious act"
    "Russia does bad things and acts nefariously"
    "therefore this was Russia".

    ...but by that logic Vladimir Putin is also responsible for the hastily applied graffito of a cock and balls which appeared earlier this year on the bus shelter opppsite my house.
    Who knows, maybe he was. Damned Russian psyops.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,024
    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Leon said:

    Come on. Own up. Who believed that Putin blew up his own pipeline?

    What was the argument for Russia having done it? I didn't follow the story closely, but I thought the discussion was over whether or not it was sabotage or something else.
    There was no argument. It was just ‘Putin is mad and this is a mad thing so mad dog Putin did this mad thing even tho it hurts him’ - ignoring the obvious candidates with means, money and motivation, who actually told us they were going to do it a year before
    The Americans didn't say a year before that they were going to do it. You are so full of shit.
    lol

    Biden in early 2022, talking of ending Nordstream

    "There will no longer be a Nordstream 2. We will bring an end to it. We will be able to do that"


    https://twitter.com/Ibiza_Beard_Oil/status/1604042598917836800?s=20&t=-y86roo-yq_NexosIttAWQ


    I mean, I know you're not the brightest pfennig in the kartoffelsalat, but he ACTUALLY FUCKING SAYS IT

    "We will bring an end to Nordstream 2"
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,953
    edited December 2022
    ohnotnow said:

    checklist said:

    Money Will Kill ChatGPT’s Magic
    Buzzy products like ChatGPT and DALL-E 2 will have to turn a profit

    https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2022/12/chatgpt-ai-chatbots-openai-cost-regulations/672539/

    I am prepared to pay for this, if individual subs becomes the funding model. There will be the biggest social divide of all time between the GPT enabled, and not.

    Wtf does it do for you, though, beyond providing a mild distraction?
    I work in IT - and it's really very useful at writing code, explaining existing code, translating things etc. Also can be a handy research tool compared to googling about, reading blog-posts, stack-overflow, etc (obviously needs some double-checking, but that's usually the case with random blogs too).

    As a really simple example, I asked it to write me a script to download videos from streaming services using the 'youtube-dl' tool. 30 seconds or so later - done. Then asked it to change the script to bring up a VPN based on the country-code of the URL to get around location restrictions. 30 seconds later - done. Asked it to do a version where it would use a specific VPN configuration based on the URL/domain, then fall back to the country-code if there wasn't a match. 30 seconds later - done.

    Nothing I couldn't have done myself - but I certainly wouldn't have got it done in under two minutes.
    Combining ChatGPT and Github CoPilot is a massive force multiplier for average developers. In the old days, you'd Google, which would send you to StackOverflow, and then you'd find the right solution and adapt it to your needs.

    Time to solve issue: 25 minutes.

    Now, you can simply ask ChatGPT and it (essentially) adapts StackOverflow for you. (As, indeed, does the similarly GPT powered CoPilot.)

    Time to solve issue: 3 minutes.

    That said... I was playing with a Python GIS library. And ChatGPT kept giving me the wrong answer. I'd paste the error in, and it would keep giving the same answer.

    Why? Because there were 100x as many questions and answers about the old version of the library on StackOverflow as of the new one. Bad info had driven out good. And it takes time for the predictive algorithms to weigh new information enough that it surpasses old.

    And then there's the bigger issue.

    ChatGPT is amazing at this because it is parasitical on StackOverflow. If people stop using StackOverflow because of how great ChatGPT is, then where will the new knowledge that ChatGPT needs to function come from?
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,847
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    I must admit, it seemed an odd thing for Putin to do, to destroy the infrastructure responsible for delivering, I think, Russia's second greatest source of foreign income.
    The most persuasive logic seemed to be "this is a bad thing and a nefarious act"
    "Russia does bad things and acts nefariously"
    "therefore this was Russia".

    ...but by that logic Vladimir Putin is also responsible for the hastily applied graffito of a cock and balls which appeared earlier this year on the bus shelter opppsite my house.
    Who knows, maybe he was. Damned Russian psyops.
    The only evidence we have for this hasty cock and balls is from you, so we should logically suspect you drew it yourself.
  • Options
    kamskikamski Posts: 4,239
    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Leon said:

    Come on. Own up. Who believed that Putin blew up his own pipeline?

    What was the argument for Russia having done it? I didn't follow the story closely, but I thought the discussion was over whether or not it was sabotage or something else.
    There was no argument. It was just ‘Putin is mad and this is a mad thing so mad dog Putin did this mad thing even tho it hurts him’ - ignoring the obvious candidates with means, money and motivation, who actually told us they were going to do it a year before
    The Americans didn't say a year before that they were going to do it. You are so full of shit.
    lol

    Biden in early 2022, talking of ending Nordstream

    "There will no longer be a Nordstream 2. We will bring an end to it. We will be able to do that"


    https://twitter.com/Ibiza_Beard_Oil/status/1604042598917836800?s=20&t=-y86roo-yq_NexosIttAWQ


    I mean, I know you're not the brightest pfennig in the kartoffelsalat, but he ACTUALLY FUCKING SAYS IT

    "We will bring an end to Nordstream 2"
    No surprise that you are so brain damaged that you don't even have a clue how long a year is.
  • Options
    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,426
    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Leon said:

    Come on. Own up. Who believed that Putin blew up his own pipeline?

    What was the argument for Russia having done it? I didn't follow the story closely, but I thought the discussion was over whether or not it was sabotage or something else.
    There was no argument. It was just ‘Putin is mad and this is a mad thing so mad dog Putin did this mad thing even tho it hurts him’ - ignoring the obvious candidates with means, money and motivation, who actually told us they were going to do it a year before
    The Americans didn't say a year before that they were going to do it. You are so full of shit.
    lol

    Biden in early 2022, talking of ending Nordstream

    "There will no longer be a Nordstream 2. We will bring an end to it. We will be able to do that"


    https://twitter.com/Ibiza_Beard_Oil/status/1604042598917836800?s=20&t=-y86roo-yq_NexosIttAWQ


    I mean, I know you're not the brightest pfennig in the kartoffelsalat, but he ACTUALLY FUCKING SAYS IT

    "We will bring an end to Nordstream 2"
    Didn't mention Nordstream 1 though. Sneaky little bugger, blowing that one up too, wasn't he?
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,168
    Cookie said:

    I must admit, it seemed an odd thing for Putin to do, to destroy the infrastructure responsible for delivering, I think, Russia's second greatest source of foreign income.
    The most persuasive logic seemed to be "this is a bad thing and a nefarious act"
    "Russia does bad things and acts nefariously"
    "therefore this was Russia".

    My argument in favour of suspecting Russia is not about the pipeline itself, but about the message it sends about other pipelines, telecommunication cables, electricity interconnectors.

    If it was Russia then it sends the message that they have the capability to destroy subsea infrastructure, that they are willing to use that capability, and consequently if you push us too far we can hit back at you in deniable ways.

    The Americans have said today that they aren't yet willing to send tanks and jets to Ukraine because they want to preserve the unity of the Western Alliance. It doesn't make much sense to me that they would put the unity of the Western Alliance at risk by destroying infrastructure that's hitherto been critical for the German economy.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,024
    rcs1000 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    checklist said:

    Money Will Kill ChatGPT’s Magic
    Buzzy products like ChatGPT and DALL-E 2 will have to turn a profit

    https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2022/12/chatgpt-ai-chatbots-openai-cost-regulations/672539/

    I am prepared to pay for this, if individual subs becomes the funding model. There will be the biggest social divide of all time between the GPT enabled, and not.

    Wtf does it do for you, though, beyond providing a mild distraction?
    I work in IT - and it's really very useful at writing code, explaining existing code, translating things etc. Also can be a handy research tool compared to googling about, reading blog-posts, stack-overflow, etc (obviously needs some double-checking, but that's usually the case with random blogs too).

    As a really simple example, I asked it to write me a script to download videos from streaming services using the 'youtube-dl' tool. 30 seconds or so later - done. Then asked it to change the script to bring up a VPN based on the country-code of the URL to get around location restrictions. 30 seconds later - done. Asked it to do a version where it would use a specific VPN configuration based on the URL/domain, then fall back to the country-code if there wasn't a match. 30 seconds later - done.

    Nothing I couldn't have done myself - but I certainly wouldn't have got it done in under two minutes.
    Combining ChatGPT and Github CoPilot is a massive force multiplier for average developers. In the old days, you'd Google, which would send you to StackOverflow, and then you'd find the right solution and adapt it to your needs.

    Time to solve issue: 25 minutes.

    Now, you can simply ask ChatGPT and it (essentially) adapts StackOverflow for you. (As, indeed, does the similarly GPT powered CoPilot.)

    Time to solve issue: 3 minutes.

    That said... I was playing with a Python GIS library. And ChatGPT kept giving me the wrong answer. I'd paste the error in, and it would keep giving the same answer.

    Why? Because there were 100x as many questions and answers about the old version of the library on StackOverflow as of the new one. Bad info had driven out good. And it takes time for the predictive algorithms to weigh new information enough that it surpasses old.

    And then there's the bigger issue.

    ChatGPT is amazing at this because it is parasitical on StackOverflow. If people stop using StackOverflow because of how great ChatGPT is, then where will the new knowledge that ChatGPT needs to function come from?
    There is a related issue which the GPT-wranglers are now facing. They've realised that the most fruitful course to follow - to get to AGI - is to simply feed these monsters more and more data. The entire internet, etc. The more they feed them the bigger they grow, but also more "intelligent"

    Trouble is, they are running out of data. It is not infinite. One of the latest AI networks has consumed 30% of the entire Net.

    How do they grow them if they run out of food?
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    rcs1000 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    checklist said:

    Money Will Kill ChatGPT’s Magic
    Buzzy products like ChatGPT and DALL-E 2 will have to turn a profit

    https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2022/12/chatgpt-ai-chatbots-openai-cost-regulations/672539/

    I am prepared to pay for this, if individual subs becomes the funding model. There will be the biggest social divide of all time between the GPT enabled, and not.

    Wtf does it do for you, though, beyond providing a mild distraction?
    I work in IT - and it's really very useful at writing code, explaining existing code, translating things etc. Also can be a handy research tool compared to googling about, reading blog-posts, stack-overflow, etc (obviously needs some double-checking, but that's usually the case with random blogs too).

    As a really simple example, I asked it to write me a script to download videos from streaming services using the 'youtube-dl' tool. 30 seconds or so later - done. Then asked it to change the script to bring up a VPN based on the country-code of the URL to get around location restrictions. 30 seconds later - done. Asked it to do a version where it would use a specific VPN configuration based on the URL/domain, then fall back to the country-code if there wasn't a match. 30 seconds later - done.

    Nothing I couldn't have done myself - but I certainly wouldn't have got it done in under two minutes.
    Combining ChatGPT and Github CoPilot is a massive force multiplier for average developers. In the old days, you'd Google, which would send you to StackOverflow, and then you'd find the right solution and adapt it to your needs.

    Time to solve issue: 25 minutes.

    Now, you can simply ask ChatGPT and it (essentially) adapts StackOverflow for you. (As, indeed, does the similarly GPT powered CoPilot.)

    Time to solve issue: 3 minutes.

    That said... I was playing with a Python GIS library. And ChatGPT kept giving me the wrong answer. I'd paste the error in, and it would keep giving the same answer.

    Why? Because there were 100x as many questions and answers about the old version of the library on StackOverflow as of the new one. Bad info had driven out good. And it takes time for the predictive algorithms to weigh new information enough that it surpasses old.

    And then there's the bigger issue.

    ChatGPT is amazing at this because it is parasitical on StackOverflow. If people stop using StackOverflow because of how great ChatGPT is, then where will the new knowledge that ChatGPT needs to function come from?
    Indeed, ChatGPT is a great search index with natural language processing and output. It's not going to solve any coding problems for you that a human hasn't already fixed, not yet anyway.
  • Options
    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,426
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    I must admit, it seemed an odd thing for Putin to do, to destroy the infrastructure responsible for delivering, I think, Russia's second greatest source of foreign income.
    The most persuasive logic seemed to be "this is a bad thing and a nefarious act"
    "Russia does bad things and acts nefariously"
    "therefore this was Russia".

    ...but by that logic Vladimir Putin is also responsible for the hastily applied graffito of a cock and balls which appeared earlier this year on the bus shelter opppsite my house.
    Who knows, maybe he was. Damned Russian psyops.
    Ah... No, that was me. Sorry. Not my best work. My bus arrived before I'd got it finished. :blush:
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,212

    @bctallis
    “This journey to Washington from Zelenskiy, it is an act of desperation."

    Disgraceful from Germany’s main, public-funded news ‘analysis’ show.


    https://twitter.com/bctallis/status/1605825461837234177

    Bizarre. His presentation, including the military greens without a single badge or adornment shows a nation at war with every picture that is taken. You can never forget what is happening to his country because he won't let you from that image alone. The man is a master propagandist, truly remarkable.

    And $45bn of war aid was worth the trip.
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    checklist said:

    Money Will Kill ChatGPT’s Magic
    Buzzy products like ChatGPT and DALL-E 2 will have to turn a profit

    https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2022/12/chatgpt-ai-chatbots-openai-cost-regulations/672539/

    I am prepared to pay for this, if individual subs becomes the funding model. There will be the biggest social divide of all time between the GPT enabled, and not.

    Wtf does it do for you, though, beyond providing a mild distraction?
    I work in IT - and it's really very useful at writing code, explaining existing code, translating things etc. Also can be a handy research tool compared to googling about, reading blog-posts, stack-overflow, etc (obviously needs some double-checking, but that's usually the case with random blogs too).

    As a really simple example, I asked it to write me a script to download videos from streaming services using the 'youtube-dl' tool. 30 seconds or so later - done. Then asked it to change the script to bring up a VPN based on the country-code of the URL to get around location restrictions. 30 seconds later - done. Asked it to do a version where it would use a specific VPN configuration based on the URL/domain, then fall back to the country-code if there wasn't a match. 30 seconds later - done.

    Nothing I couldn't have done myself - but I certainly wouldn't have got it done in under two minutes.
    Combining ChatGPT and Github CoPilot is a massive force multiplier for average developers. In the old days, you'd Google, which would send you to StackOverflow, and then you'd find the right solution and adapt it to your needs.

    Time to solve issue: 25 minutes.

    Now, you can simply ask ChatGPT and it (essentially) adapts StackOverflow for you. (As, indeed, does the similarly GPT powered CoPilot.)

    Time to solve issue: 3 minutes.

    That said... I was playing with a Python GIS library. And ChatGPT kept giving me the wrong answer. I'd paste the error in, and it would keep giving the same answer.

    Why? Because there were 100x as many questions and answers about the old version of the library on StackOverflow as of the new one. Bad info had driven out good. And it takes time for the predictive algorithms to weigh new information enough that it surpasses old.

    And then there's the bigger issue.

    ChatGPT is amazing at this because it is parasitical on StackOverflow. If people stop using StackOverflow because of how great ChatGPT is, then where will the new knowledge that ChatGPT needs to function come from?
    Yes big worry. And in the bigger picture, look at twitter: assuming chatbots can get through its defences, it will initially consist of chatbots mirroring human opinions on everything. If the chatbots are good and get retweets and followers, twitter will inevitably (even without bad human actors) drift via a feedback loop towards GPTthink rather than humanthink about everything. With utterly unpredictable results.
  • Options
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    checklist said:

    Money Will Kill ChatGPT’s Magic
    Buzzy products like ChatGPT and DALL-E 2 will have to turn a profit

    https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2022/12/chatgpt-ai-chatbots-openai-cost-regulations/672539/

    I am prepared to pay for this, if individual subs becomes the funding model. There will be the biggest social divide of all time between the GPT enabled, and not.

    Wtf does it do for you, though, beyond providing a mild distraction?
    I work in IT - and it's really very useful at writing code, explaining existing code, translating things etc. Also can be a handy research tool compared to googling about, reading blog-posts, stack-overflow, etc (obviously needs some double-checking, but that's usually the case with random blogs too).

    As a really simple example, I asked it to write me a script to download videos from streaming services using the 'youtube-dl' tool. 30 seconds or so later - done. Then asked it to change the script to bring up a VPN based on the country-code of the URL to get around location restrictions. 30 seconds later - done. Asked it to do a version where it would use a specific VPN configuration based on the URL/domain, then fall back to the country-code if there wasn't a match. 30 seconds later - done.

    Nothing I couldn't have done myself - but I certainly wouldn't have got it done in under two minutes.
    Combining ChatGPT and Github CoPilot is a massive force multiplier for average developers. In the old days, you'd Google, which would send you to StackOverflow, and then you'd find the right solution and adapt it to your needs.

    Time to solve issue: 25 minutes.

    Now, you can simply ask ChatGPT and it (essentially) adapts StackOverflow for you. (As, indeed, does the similarly GPT powered CoPilot.)

    Time to solve issue: 3 minutes.

    That said... I was playing with a Python GIS library. And ChatGPT kept giving me the wrong answer. I'd paste the error in, and it would keep giving the same answer.

    Why? Because there were 100x as many questions and answers about the old version of the library on StackOverflow as of the new one. Bad info had driven out good. And it takes time for the predictive algorithms to weigh new information enough that it surpasses old.

    And then there's the bigger issue.

    ChatGPT is amazing at this because it is parasitical on StackOverflow. If people stop using StackOverflow because of how great ChatGPT is, then where will the new knowledge that ChatGPT needs to function come from?
    There is a related issue which the GPT-wranglers are now facing. They've realised that the most fruitful course to follow - to get to AGI - is to simply feed these monsters more and more data. The entire internet, etc. The more they feed them the bigger they grow, but also more "intelligent"

    Trouble is, they are running out of data. It is not infinite. One of the latest AI networks has consumed 30% of the entire Net.

    How do they grow them if they run out of food?
    Have you seen The Matrix?
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,024
    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Leon said:

    Come on. Own up. Who believed that Putin blew up his own pipeline?

    What was the argument for Russia having done it? I didn't follow the story closely, but I thought the discussion was over whether or not it was sabotage or something else.
    There was no argument. It was just ‘Putin is mad and this is a mad thing so mad dog Putin did this mad thing even tho it hurts him’ - ignoring the obvious candidates with means, money and motivation, who actually told us they were going to do it a year before
    The Americans didn't say a year before that they were going to do it. You are so full of shit.
    lol

    Biden in early 2022, talking of ending Nordstream

    "There will no longer be a Nordstream 2. We will bring an end to it. We will be able to do that"


    https://twitter.com/Ibiza_Beard_Oil/status/1604042598917836800?s=20&t=-y86roo-yq_NexosIttAWQ


    I mean, I know you're not the brightest pfennig in the kartoffelsalat, but he ACTUALLY FUCKING SAYS IT

    "We will bring an end to Nordstream 2"
    No surprise that you are so brain damaged that you don't even have a clue how long a year is.
    What kind of bottom-of-the-fridge mental vegetable listens to Joe Biden saying "we will bring an end to Nordstream 2, we will do that, we will get it done", then watches the Nordstream 2 pipeline violently coming to an end, an ending which suits the USA probably more than anyone, and THEN thinks: "Ah, the Russians did it!"

    Well, I guess you do. You went through that process. And also @JosiasJessop

    And @Nigelb
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,168
    checklist said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    checklist said:

    Money Will Kill ChatGPT’s Magic
    Buzzy products like ChatGPT and DALL-E 2 will have to turn a profit

    https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2022/12/chatgpt-ai-chatbots-openai-cost-regulations/672539/

    I am prepared to pay for this, if individual subs becomes the funding model. There will be the biggest social divide of all time between the GPT enabled, and not.

    Wtf does it do for you, though, beyond providing a mild distraction?
    I work in IT - and it's really very useful at writing code, explaining existing code, translating things etc. Also can be a handy research tool compared to googling about, reading blog-posts, stack-overflow, etc (obviously needs some double-checking, but that's usually the case with random blogs too).

    As a really simple example, I asked it to write me a script to download videos from streaming services using the 'youtube-dl' tool. 30 seconds or so later - done. Then asked it to change the script to bring up a VPN based on the country-code of the URL to get around location restrictions. 30 seconds later - done. Asked it to do a version where it would use a specific VPN configuration based on the URL/domain, then fall back to the country-code if there wasn't a match. 30 seconds later - done.

    Nothing I couldn't have done myself - but I certainly wouldn't have got it done in under two minutes.
    Combining ChatGPT and Github CoPilot is a massive force multiplier for average developers. In the old days, you'd Google, which would send you to StackOverflow, and then you'd find the right solution and adapt it to your needs.

    Time to solve issue: 25 minutes.

    Now, you can simply ask ChatGPT and it (essentially) adapts StackOverflow for you. (As, indeed, does the similarly GPT powered CoPilot.)

    Time to solve issue: 3 minutes.

    That said... I was playing with a Python GIS library. And ChatGPT kept giving me the wrong answer. I'd paste the error in, and it would keep giving the same answer.

    Why? Because there were 100x as many questions and answers about the old version of the library on StackOverflow as of the new one. Bad info had driven out good. And it takes time for the predictive algorithms to weigh new information enough that it surpasses old.

    And then there's the bigger issue.

    ChatGPT is amazing at this because it is parasitical on StackOverflow. If people stop using StackOverflow because of how great ChatGPT is, then where will the new knowledge that ChatGPT needs to function come from?
    Yes big worry. And in the bigger picture, look at twitter: assuming chatbots can get through its defences, it will initially consist of chatbots mirroring human opinions on everything. If the chatbots are good and get retweets and followers, twitter will inevitably (even without bad human actors) drift via a feedback loop towards GPTthink rather than humanthink about everything. With utterly unpredictable results.
    The predictable result is that a GPT journalist will be caught faking a clickbait news article based on tweets that hadn't been written until it predicted that they would be written, and then wrote them to speed the process up so it could publish its article.

    And someone will defend the algorithm by saying that at least it wasn't as bad as the fakery performed by Johann Hari.
  • Options
    Cookie said:

    I must admit, it seemed an odd thing for Putin to do, to destroy the infrastructure responsible for delivering, I think, Russia's second greatest source of foreign income.
    The most persuasive logic seemed to be "this is a bad thing and a nefarious act"
    "Russia does bad things and acts nefariously"
    "therefore this was Russia".

    No, there was an obvious reason for it which was to drive a wedge between the US/UK and the lukewarm countries like Germany. Pinning the blame for subsequent hardships on the US and UK was a strong reason at little cost given that there was no prospect in the medium term of the West taking Russian gas anyway.
  • Options
    checklistchecklist Posts: 179
    edited December 2022

    checklist said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    checklist said:

    Money Will Kill ChatGPT’s Magic
    Buzzy products like ChatGPT and DALL-E 2 will have to turn a profit

    https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2022/12/chatgpt-ai-chatbots-openai-cost-regulations/672539/

    I am prepared to pay for this, if individual subs becomes the funding model. There will be the biggest social divide of all time between the GPT enabled, and not.

    Wtf does it do for you, though, beyond providing a mild distraction?
    I work in IT - and it's really very useful at writing code, explaining existing code, translating things etc. Also can be a handy research tool compared to googling about, reading blog-posts, stack-overflow, etc (obviously needs some double-checking, but that's usually the case with random blogs too).

    As a really simple example, I asked it to write me a script to download videos from streaming services using the 'youtube-dl' tool. 30 seconds or so later - done. Then asked it to change the script to bring up a VPN based on the country-code of the URL to get around location restrictions. 30 seconds later - done. Asked it to do a version where it would use a specific VPN configuration based on the URL/domain, then fall back to the country-code if there wasn't a match. 30 seconds later - done.

    Nothing I couldn't have done myself - but I certainly wouldn't have got it done in under two minutes.
    Combining ChatGPT and Github CoPilot is a massive force multiplier for average developers. In the old days, you'd Google, which would send you to StackOverflow, and then you'd find the right solution and adapt it to your needs.

    Time to solve issue: 25 minutes.

    Now, you can simply ask ChatGPT and it (essentially) adapts StackOverflow for you. (As, indeed, does the similarly GPT powered CoPilot.)

    Time to solve issue: 3 minutes.

    That said... I was playing with a Python GIS library. And ChatGPT kept giving me the wrong answer. I'd paste the error in, and it would keep giving the same answer.

    Why? Because there were 100x as many questions and answers about the old version of the library on StackOverflow as of the new one. Bad info had driven out good. And it takes time for the predictive algorithms to weigh new information enough that it surpasses old.

    And then there's the bigger issue.

    ChatGPT is amazing at this because it is parasitical on StackOverflow. If people stop using StackOverflow because of how great ChatGPT is, then where will the new knowledge that ChatGPT needs to function come from?
    Yes big worry. And in the bigger picture, look at twitter: assuming chatbots can get through its defences, it will initially consist of chatbots mirroring human opinions on everything. If the chatbots are good and get retweets and followers, twitter will inevitably (even without bad human actors) drift via a feedback loop towards GPTthink rather than humanthink about everything. With utterly unpredictable results.
    The predictable result is that a GPT journalist will be caught faking a clickbait news article based on tweets that hadn't been written until it predicted that they would be written, and then wrote them to speed the process up so it could publish its article.

    And someone will defend the algorithm by saying that at least it wasn't as bad as the fakery performed by Johann Hari.
    The Times's rather out of the blue switch to a real name only commenting rule last week was possibly about this. If chatbots are that good, only way of knowing if you are talking to one or not.

    ETA and thinking about it, Elon's blue ticks. People will be pleading with him to take their money for a gold standard NotGPT badge by next summer.
  • Options
    EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Leon said:

    Come on. Own up. Who believed that Putin blew up his own pipeline?

    What was the argument for Russia having done it? I didn't follow the story closely, but I thought the discussion was over whether or not it was sabotage or something else.
    There was no argument. It was just ‘Putin is mad and this is a mad thing so mad dog Putin did this mad thing even tho it hurts him’ - ignoring the obvious candidates with means, money and motivation, who actually told us they were going to do it a year before
    The Americans didn't say a year before that they were going to do it. You are so full of shit.
    lol

    Biden in early 2022, talking of ending Nordstream

    "There will no longer be a Nordstream 2. We will bring an end to it. We will be able to do that"


    https://twitter.com/Ibiza_Beard_Oil/status/1604042598917836800?s=20&t=-y86roo-yq_NexosIttAWQ


    I mean, I know you're not the brightest pfennig in the kartoffelsalat, but he ACTUALLY FUCKING SAYS IT

    "We will bring an end to Nordstream 2"
    No surprise that you are so brain damaged that you don't even have a clue how long a year is.
    What kind of bottom-of-the-fridge mental vegetable listens to Joe Biden saying "we will bring an end to Nordstream 2, we will do that, we will get it done", then watches the Nordstream 2 pipeline violently coming to an end, an ending which suits the USA probably more than anyone, and THEN thinks: "Ah, the Russians did it!"

    Well, I guess you do. You went through that process. And also @JosiasJessop

    And @Nigelb
    Wait, why would the US announce they're going to do something, do it, then deny it?

    Previously I didn't care about this, at all, but now you've convinced me it was a false flag operation that could've been performed by anyone except the US.
  • Options
    ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 2,923

    checklist said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    checklist said:

    Money Will Kill ChatGPT’s Magic
    Buzzy products like ChatGPT and DALL-E 2 will have to turn a profit

    https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2022/12/chatgpt-ai-chatbots-openai-cost-regulations/672539/

    I am prepared to pay for this, if individual subs becomes the funding model. There will be the biggest social divide of all time between the GPT enabled, and not.

    Wtf does it do for you, though, beyond providing a mild distraction?
    I work in IT - and it's really very useful at writing code, explaining existing code, translating things etc. Also can be a handy research tool compared to googling about, reading blog-posts, stack-overflow, etc (obviously needs some double-checking, but that's usually the case with random blogs too).

    As a really simple example, I asked it to write me a script to download videos from streaming services using the 'youtube-dl' tool. 30 seconds or so later - done. Then asked it to change the script to bring up a VPN based on the country-code of the URL to get around location restrictions. 30 seconds later - done. Asked it to do a version where it would use a specific VPN configuration based on the URL/domain, then fall back to the country-code if there wasn't a match. 30 seconds later - done.

    Nothing I couldn't have done myself - but I certainly wouldn't have got it done in under two minutes.
    Combining ChatGPT and Github CoPilot is a massive force multiplier for average developers. In the old days, you'd Google, which would send you to StackOverflow, and then you'd find the right solution and adapt it to your needs.

    Time to solve issue: 25 minutes.

    Now, you can simply ask ChatGPT and it (essentially) adapts StackOverflow for you. (As, indeed, does the similarly GPT powered CoPilot.)

    Time to solve issue: 3 minutes.

    That said... I was playing with a Python GIS library. And ChatGPT kept giving me the wrong answer. I'd paste the error in, and it would keep giving the same answer.

    Why? Because there were 100x as many questions and answers about the old version of the library on StackOverflow as of the new one. Bad info had driven out good. And it takes time for the predictive algorithms to weigh new information enough that it surpasses old.

    And then there's the bigger issue.

    ChatGPT is amazing at this because it is parasitical on StackOverflow. If people stop using StackOverflow because of how great ChatGPT is, then where will the new knowledge that ChatGPT needs to function come from?
    Yes big worry. And in the bigger picture, look at twitter: assuming chatbots can get through its defences, it will initially consist of chatbots mirroring human opinions on everything. If the chatbots are good and get retweets and followers, twitter will inevitably (even without bad human actors) drift via a feedback loop towards GPTthink rather than humanthink about everything. With utterly unpredictable results.
    The predictable result is that a GPT journalist will be caught faking a clickbait news article based on tweets that hadn't been written until it predicted that they would be written, and then wrote them to speed the process up so it could publish its article.

    And someone will defend the algorithm by saying that at least it wasn't as bad as the fakery performed by Johann Hari.
    Rather infamously, someone edited a persons wikipedia page to say they had died and tweeted it out. A journalist eager for a BREAKING story checked the wiki page - saw it was 'true' and posted it to their feed, which was picked up by others. The original person quickly added links to those verified journalist accounts as references on the wiki page - thus completing the 'proof' that it was all true.

    So my hopes aren't high for the future of these interactions.
  • Options
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Only a total fucking moron could believe that Putin blew up his own pipeline. I’m gonna go back and identify the PB-ers that fit the bill

    Only a total moron would have discounted the possibility.

    I still reckon it may have been the Russians (and if that means you call me a moron; it's an honour to be taken as a moron by someone who is as deeply mired in moronity as your good self). As DA says below, there are very few countries that have the capability to do this, especially undetected, and fewer for whom it makes any sense. And if it was the Yanks, they would be firmly blaming the Russians for it, wouldn't they?

    As for 'only a total fucking moron could believe that Putin blew up his own pipeline'; myself and others explained *why* he might have done so at the time. Only a total fucking moron would just hand-wave away those explanations because there is another more DRAMATIC!!!! answer.

    The big question currently is the identity of the two large ships that appeared in the area days before with their AIS transmitters turned off. That's suspicious; and they could have belonged to any large actor. Likewise, there were Russian submarines in the area beforehand.
    Ah, you too. Of course

    TICK
    Add me to the roll of honour as well.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983

    One of the things that often makes next leader betting difficult is uncertainty about when the contest will take place, but it strikes me that this is one of those times when we can be pretty confident the contest will take place at a specific time - after a Conservative defeat at the next general election.

    It follows from this that we can make some fairly good deductions about some MPs who won't be contenders, because they will most likely have lost their seat at the election (if not before) - e.g. Johnson, Hunt, Raab, possibly others.

    A more detailed next step would be to examine the publicly declared support from previous leadership elections of the 150-200 Tory MPs most likely to retain their seats, and use that information to deduce the likely pair of candidates for the party membership to choose the least realistic from.

    At the moment I would make Steve Barclay favourite to be Leader of the Opposition to PM Starmer if the Tories lose the next general election.

    He would pick up most Sunak MPs support but add some on the ERG right too
This discussion has been closed.